From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 00:09:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA27747; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:09:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:09:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990901000449.369fd75e@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 00:04:49 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Toroidial transformers with fractional turns?!!! In-Reply-To: <006801bef42d$92674660$144a66d1@w7o9k8> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Hvt5_3.0.Nn6.b4Dpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11684 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Fred and all, Sounds like you have found a lot of interesting papers! At 08:53 PM 8/31/99 -0700, you wrote: >>Yes one can shield them magnetically as well. This leads me to believe the >>vector potential A is involved, like in the Aharonov-Bohm effect. >Yes that's right, this is explained by the use of the magnetic vector >potential A. Ther is an article in Am. J. Phys. someplace about the A-B >effect in transformers, I'll try to dig it up. This is considered >conventional physics (whatever that means) at this point. If you can find the issue, etc, I'd be very interested in it. Even if it is now "conventional", most physicists I've asked don't know or acknowledge it. Have on my list a paper by Danos, "The quantum mechanics of the electrical transformer" from Vol 50, 1982. > >>Yes the Faraday law says the induced voltage is from the flux linkage- it >>says "what" will be observed but not "how". > >The faraday law is not universally valid anyway. The motional law E = BXV >and the faraday law are not euqivalents, as Moon and Spencer showed many >years ago. The motional law is based on movement of charge, whereas the >flux linkage law is based on acceleration of charge, so they are >fundamentally different. You can only know the total induction in a circuit >by adding both together. Have you read the Hooper paper on "all electrical motional induction"? I'd be interested in where the Moon and Spencer paper is as well. I also am looking for a paper by J. Valverde, "The principle of relativity as applied to motional EM induction." Have you seen it? I have also found an article that said if the movement of the path to measure the voltage is the same as physical movement, then the "motional" and "flux cutting" formula give the same answer. The disk homopolar generator is an example where the 2 aren't the same. > >Motional induction is very strange since it can be generated by "virtual" >motion of field rather than real motion. If this was not true then motors >would not work. But since this motion is virtual it can happen at any >velocity and is not limited by the speed of light. Think about that one in >the context of the E= BXV law. Please explain what is meant by "virtual" motion in motors. (The term is new to me in this context) Does it just mean "field rotation" by 2 or more phase currents? An example would be any induction motor where the field coils are fixed, but the fields rotate. Have also wondered what would happen if by this means or X-Y capacitor plates, a rotating field is generated that has a V=C at some radial distance. > >In addition the only form of the flux linkage law which is universally valid >(where flux linkage applies) is the formula using A the vector potential and >not B the field. A is the primary or fundamental quantity and not B. This >is demonstrated in the Marinov motor where there is no flux linkage and no >motion of flux and there is still induction (in the form of motor torque) >because A integrated over time and space does change. > >The Marinov motor (the real one not the ball bearing one) is pretty similar >to what you are talking about. Although it is very strange, it is not OU as >far as anyone can tell yet. A Kooistra article was in "Infinite Energy" (17) which I am trying to order, have not seen the video yet. >I predict that your secondary will load the toroid. >> >>Didn't the Sutton "black-hole" antenna just take energy from a larger >>volume of space? No excess energy _just_ in that. > >Right. > > How much different is the >>test of a regen. receiver with direct short wire antenna picking up the RF >>from a transmitter tank circuit? (Some early receivers used air core >>toroidal coils) > >Not at all different, the regen reciever is quoted in the Sutton papers as a >forerunner of their invention. Yes, they described what was lost when later regen. receivers had a RF stage or frequency converter between the antenna and regen. stage, so the antenna wasn't part of the feedback loop anymore. I may try a regen. receiver again, as the more broad-band circuits I've tried have been swamped by AC power line signal. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 00:55:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA03137; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:55:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:55:04 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-1-dyn6.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.191.182.21] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <006001bef44e$8f351640$38b6bfd1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Toroidial transformers with fractional turns?!!! Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:49:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"MTlxs.0.wm.OlDpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11685 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dave and all, >Sounds like you have found a lot of interesting papers! Just remembered I had them... Ther is an article in Am. J. Phys. someplace about the A-B >>effect in transformers, I'll try to dig it up. This is considered >>conventional physics (whatever that means) at this point. > >If you can find the issue, etc, I'd be very interested in it. Even if it is >now "conventional", most physicists I've asked don't know or acknowledge it. >Have on my list a paper by Danos, "The quantum mechanics of the electrical >transformer" from Vol 50, 1982. I think that is it. When I find it I will send it to you. >> > >Have you read the Hooper paper on "all electrical motional induction"? Yes I have read all of Hooper's stuff and those college guys who tested it too. I'd be interested in where the Moon and Spencer paper is as well. That is "On Electromagnetic Induction" J. Franklin Inst. , but I don't have the year marked on my copy, but I can get it for you. Cullwick in both of his books also talks about this, as do Moon and Spencer in their book. Speaking of Domina Spencer, did anyone go to the conference in Salt Lak a few days ago where she spoke? Can you give us a report? It was supposed to be a big deal, the New Electrodynamics etc. I also >am looking for a paper by J. Valverde, "The principle of relativity as >applied to motional EM induction." Have you seen it? No, I want it, so let me know where it can be found. I have also found an >article that said if the movement of the path to measure the voltage is the >same as physical movement, then the "motional" and "flux cutting" formula >give the same answer. Right. The disk homopolar generator is an example where the >2 aren't the same. Right. > > >Please explain what is meant by "virtual" motion in motors. (The term is >new to me in this context) Does it just mean "field rotation" by 2 or more >phase currents? An example would be any induction motor where the field >coils are fixed, but the fields rotate. Thats it. Hooper in one of his patents (I forget the name and number) shows how a rotating cylinder made of permanent magnets with poles at the ends creates a BxV force down the center. According to him this force will affect all matter whether charged or not. In the same patent he says that fixed electromagnets supplied by phased currents can do the same thing. Now one implication of this which I don't think has been noticed is that of course this motional force can induce a current in a wire or coil down the center, and of course the V of B x V in this case is not limited to any speed with proper use of switching and phasing. It can well go faster than light and not violate any standard physics. This means that the output is not limited by the magnetic field strength or time constant of an individual coil, and can be increased arbitrarily to any level by faster switching. I don't THINK this would be OU, as the current through the central coil would react against the current in the electromagnets, and cause an increase in input reactance in the coils, so more current would need to be supplied to maintain the same field strength. This is how loading would occur. I THINK. Have also wondered what would >happen if by this means or X-Y capacitor plates, a rotating field is >generated that has a V=C at some radial distance. Yes I have too. >> >>The Marinov motor (the real one not the ball bearing one) is pretty similar >>to what you are talking about. Although it is very strange, it is not OU as >>far as anyone can tell yet. > >A Kooistra article was in "Infinite Energy" (17) which I am trying to >order, have not seen the video yet. I could kick myself for downloading a great article on this by Phipps that was in Apeiron a few months ago, without saving the pdf file. It is the best overview of the whole thing and covers all the issues. Too bad it is about 40 pages long :-/ > >Yes, they described what was lost when later regen. receivers had a RF >stage or frequency converter between the antenna and regen. stage, so the >antenna wasn't part of the feedback loop anymore. I may try a regen. >receiver again, as the more broad-band circuits I've tried have been >swamped by AC power line signal. Yes I had forgotten why the Sutton was different from the usual regen. It is similar to the earliest forms of it. BTW I am still researching your question, "what is an open circuit?" It is not a trivial question. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 01:07:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA06138; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 01:07:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 01:07:44 -0700 Message-ID: <37CCDED2.2BB30659@harti.com> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 10:07:46 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Toroidial transformers with fractional turns?!!! References: <3.0.6.16.19990901000449.369fd75e@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pufhO.0.pV1.GxDpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11686 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >In addition the only form of the flux linkage law which is universally valid > >(where flux linkage applies) is the formula using A the vector potential and > >not B the field. A is the primary or fundamental quantity and not B. This > >is demonstrated in the Marinov motor where there is no flux linkage and no > >motion of flux and there is still induction (in the form of motor torque) > >because A integrated over time and space does change. Yes, it seems the real secret in transformers is, that they need a changing magnetic vector potential A field and only this is needed for an induction voltage at the secondary coil. Now it would be interesting to find out, how to generate a changing A field without any energy input ! Maybe the heat effect inside the TMB is doing somthing like this via the Nest-Errnest Effect... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 01:57:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA13575; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 01:56:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 01:56:54 -0700 Message-ID: <37CCEA59.B3E06541@harti.com> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 10:56:57 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "JNaudin509@aol.com" , "ddameron@earthlink.net" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Newman=B4s?= commutator chemical oxidation effect ? X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5tDW3.0.0K3.MfEpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11687 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I wonder, what chemical reaction can cause an energy pulse to be released, when the carbon brush runs over the Copper segment of the Newman motor commutator and the arc appears and now the Carbon and Copper is oxidated !? What is the chemical reation which could provide some energy during this time in converting Cu and C into their oxidation elements like CuO2 and CO2 and how much electricity can be got from this ? I guess, this is the real effect behind Newman motors, that they convert chemical energy via oxidation into electrical energy. This way, there are these huge back current spikes. If there is not the right hissing sound arc, there would be no good oxidation and thus no back current spike. Is there any chemics pro on this list who can help ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 01:57:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA13616; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 01:57:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 01:57:05 -0700 From: "Peter Fred" To: Subject: RE: Flat sheet vs semicylindrical configuration Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 04:47:43 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bef456$a9979140$378eadd1@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <300fb0d1.24fc363c@aol.com> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"2DtjS2.0.aK3.XfEpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11688 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Keasy@aol.com [mailto:Keasy@aol.com] Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 3:32 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flat sheet vs semicylindrical configuration In a message dated 8/29/99 5:34:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, warlock@eskimo.com writes: > couldn't this simply be due to heat expansion of the metal? It's on the right > order of magnitude for volume increase. Try it in a vacuum and see if it > still > works, if not, it's simple displacement changes due to increase in volume. Yes, there are at least two factors involved: the metal expansion and convection currents. I did a similiar experiment with aluminum, heating it with current through an attached resistor. It always lost weight until I put it in a sealed (but not vacuum) jar. All weight loss with heat disappeared. Ken I wrote earlier: The other day I got much more clearer results with a hemisphere. When I illuminated a colander with a blackened aluminum sheet [should read foil] on the inside with 2250 watts for 330 seconds, I got a 0.026 N drop or a weight loss of 1.96 %. Then I illuminated a circular aluminum sheet with the same area with 2250 watts for 350 seconds with the heating elements about 1/2 inch from the circular sheet. I got a 0.648 % drop in weight or a 0.010 N drop. The aluminum sheet was a little bit thicker than the aluminum of the colander. Its initial weight or downward force was 1.5 N and the colander's initial downward force was 1.3 N. I have in these experiments evidence that indicate that there are effects due to convection currents (and possibly metal expansion). But it can be inferred that these effects only produce a 0.010 N drop or a 0.648 % drop in weight. With a colander I got a 0.026 N or a 1.96 % loss of weight. Why should the colander produce a greater weight loss with the same amount of illumination? Since one piece is a flat piece of aluminum and the other is a curved one, I conclude that heat flowing through a curved piece of material is different from heat flowing through a flat piece of material. I should mention that I have illuminated other curved shapes that were not as spherical as the colander like an aluminum wok and an aluminum skillet. I got a decrease in weight but it was never as great as the decrease that I got with the colander. This finding to me also indicates that heat flowing through a curved piece of material is different from heat flowing through a flat piece of material. Here is another source that I just go out of the library that indicates that UFO propulsion may be related to heat flowing through a spherical surface. In Travis Walton's Fire in the Sky, when he is fully conscious and is deposited on the roadside in middle of the night, he writes: "Then I saw the mirrored outline of a rounded, silvery disc hovering four feet above the paved surface of the road. It must have been forty feet in diameter because it extended several feet off the left side of the road. ...It appeared to be about fourteen feet high in the center. For an instant it floated silently above the road a dozen yards away. I could see the night sky, the surrounding trees, and the highway center line reflected curving mirror of its hull. I noticed a faint warmth radiating onto my face. Then, abruptly, it shot vertically into the sky....The most striking thing about its departure was its quietness (p. 76). " Why should my basic formula, [g = (Q'/M) 8 pi r], predict the surface gravity of the Earth and that of the Moon? Is this just chance? Or does heat flowing through a sphere really cause the molecules on the outer portions of that sphere to have a component of motion directed towards the center of that sphere? Peter Fred http://ww4.choice.net/~pbfred/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 08:26:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA23192; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:24:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:24:11 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:23:19 EDT Subject: Re: Toroidial transformers with fractional turns?!!! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Resent-Message-ID: <"iN62O.0.Hg5.RKKpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11689 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 9/1/99 1:08:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time, harti@harti.com writes: > Yes, it seems the real secret in transformers is, that they need a > changing > magnetic vector potential A field and only this is needed for an > induction voltage > at the secondary coil. Well the thing that I have trouble with is the following: consider an ideal square-core transformer with windings on two opposite legs, an input winding and an output winding. Case 1, no load on the output; case 2, output heavily loaded. The theory, as I understand it, says if you take a cross section of one of the center legs the B, H and E fields are the same for case 1 and 2. In one case you are moving a lot of energy and the other you aren't, yet the fields are the same?? Maybe I am missing something, or maybe the A field is needed to understand what is going on? Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 08:54:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA03042; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:52:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:52:39 -0700 Message-ID: <37CD4D24.EE300BA3@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 09:58:28 -0600 From: Henry Curtis X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stefan Hartmann , "ddameron@earthlink.net" , Free Energy , "JNaudin509@aol.com" , Newman-L Mailing List , Stefan Hartmann , Patrick Bailey , leoguitar@vossnet.de, "Jerry W. Decker" Subject: Re: =?x-user-defined?Q?Newman=B4s?= commutator chemical oxidation effect ? References: <37CCEA59.B3E06541@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NF8DD2.0.Rl.6lKpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11690 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan, Your post just trigered a light in my head. At the INE symposium http://www.padrak.com/ine/INECONF99.html held in Salt Lake City this past week end several presentors had excellent data on low temperature nuclear reactions (not cold fusion). Prof. Ruggero Santilli is doing some exceptionaly through work in this field. His technology is being marked by Toups Technology Licensing. They are on the web at toups@toupstech.com and www.toupstech.com. The INE has reciently published a 300+ page monograph of some of Santilli's work. The low temperature nuclear reactions that he is describing may well be a source of energy at the spark gap in commutators. There has been a lot of comment about the color, sound. and size of the sprk at the commutator in the Numan machine. In Santilli's data oxygen is combining with several different low molecular weight elements including carbon to form higher atomic weight elements with the liberation of energy in commercial quantities. Henry Curtis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 08:58:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA06414; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:58:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:58:42 -0700 Message-ID: <37CD4CE4.E45EBD9F@mpinet.net> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 11:57:24 -0400 From: Jim Springer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: toroids Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ertay.0.7a1.oqKpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11691 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here's something I've been pondering. If a toroid style coil radiates small or no magnetic field when a current is passed through it then could you wind several toroid coils for a permanent magnet generator to lessen the effects of, or defeat lenz law? In other words use the current generated without having the associated drag on the generator? I've been meaning to try this but haven't had the time. Jim -- "Education is what is left when you have forgotten everything you learned in school." Albert Einstein, 1936 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 09:04:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA09293; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:04:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:04:20 -0700 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Red-Leader" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:04:01 +0000 Subject: Re: Newman's commutator chemical oxidation effect ? Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-Id: <19990901110406.032f0a76.in@smtp.dabney.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"DoTJF2.0.1H2.3wKpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11692 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Henry Curtis wrote: > .....The low temperature nuclear reactions that he is describing may well be > a source of energy at the spark gap in commutators. There has been a lot > of comment about the color, sound. and size of the sprk at the > commutator in the Numan machine. In Santilli's data oxygen is combining > with several different low molecular weight elements including carbon to > form higher atomic weight elements with the liberation of energy in > commercial quantities. This is an interesting idea. If this is indeed the source of the OU in the Newman motor, there may be a way to tap into it without the huge amounts of wire that Newman always used in his motors. I believe that way the main reason more people weren't able to build and test his motors, they just cost too much to build. Perhaps the high voltage is all that's necessary? ===================== Emmett Hawkins "Red-Leader" Red-Leader@Dabney.com ===================== From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 09:27:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA18337; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:27:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:27:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:27:27 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Oh. My. God. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"fL4XI2.0.KU4.uFLpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11693 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Bill Beaty has gone totally apeshit off the wall insane. Either I'm a raging paranoid lunatic with delusions of grandure, or I've just seen the core idea behind the Sweet device and the Hans Coler device, and probably the Tesla car, Hendershot device, and several others. It's the "partial-turn toroidial transformer", but with two changes. 1) We must use a particular core material so that the oscillating vector-potential field can mess with the nonlinear physics of nucleii. 2) We must build the magnetic-mode version, rather than the electrostatic-mode version I described in http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/a-vectFE.html What's the "magnetic mode" version? Simple. Rather than using a short dipole to connect to the toroidial inductor, we wind a simple loop antenna. Holding this loop antenna near the toroid will create some coupling, but it would even be better to wind the loop antenna around the toroid (wind it around the perimeter, as if the toroid was Saturn, and the loop-antenna windings were saturn's rings. Next we must locate an atomic resonance in the core material. I don't quite know how to do this. Drive the toroid with a high-power signal generator, then measure the loop antenna and look for slight rises in signal as the frequency of the toroid signal is swept around? Once a resonance is found, the loop antenna on the toroid must be connected in series with an LC tuned circuit set to the same frequency. Now, when you send the right frequency of signal to the toroid inductor, a huge signal will build up in the tuned circuit. This signal will violate conservation of energy. If you tap off some of this signal and use it to drive the toroid inductor, the whole device will go into runaway and probably smoke itself. Note: this has NOT BEEN TESTED. Why am I excited? BECAUSE THE TOPOLOGY IS IDENTICAL TO THE DEVICES IN THE ARTICLES ABOUT THE COLER DEVICE AND THE SWEET VTA!!!! In the Coler device, (the version with the circle of iron magnets), the coils behave exactly the same as my "toroid inductor", while the magnets act as the "loop antenna". In the Sweet device, the situation is similar. However, in both of these devices the inventor has forgotten to inform us that a tank circuit (tuned circuit or resonator) is needed. In the Coler device, the natural atomic resonance of the iron bar magnets will not be the same as the resonance of the coils he used, and so the effect will be incredibly weak or nonexistant. Just add some capacitors to tune the coils to the iron's resonance, and the thing will probably burst into flames. Sparky Sweet's "VTA" is similar: the coil that wraps AROUND the magnet block serves as the "toroid" and its field does not contact the other coil if there is a circle of magnet-blocks keeping the field inside them. If another coil is wrapped around the circle of magnet blocks (going in the same direction as the circle), that coil acts like the "loop antenna"... but nothing will happen unless that "loop antenna" is connected to a tuned circuit, and the tuned circuit is adjusted to whatever the barium ferrite frequency might be. Could somebody, anybody, PLEASE PLEASE mess with this idea? My instincts have been misguided before, but only rarely. Right now they scream that THIS IS THE BIG ONE. If they are wrong, then I'm ready for the nice men in the white coats. (Since Sweet claimed to be able to "program" his ferrite, maybe we could pump a big 60Hz current through the toroid of this F/E device, while heating and cooling it or while putting Neodymium magnets on it (to disturb the domains and "loosen " them so they lock to 60hz). Then tune the tuned circuit to 60hz, figure out the +- phase of the connections, connect output to input (maybe need an impedance matching transformer), and stand back. It should get hot really fast. If it blows up reliably, then we can take it to Burning Man festival next week! :) If people try this and it doesn't work, then perhaps I can pay you for the time you wasted. Seriously. Many people have screamed "I've got it" in the past, without actually building anything. I can't build anything, I'm on the road. I can't stand it! Somebody else try this out before I get back and have a chance to try it myself. - Bill Beaty - w/delerious visions late at night - on vacation in N. California ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 09:44:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA27059; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:42:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:42:28 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990901093526.2f6f6bea@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 09:35:26 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Toroidial transformers with fractional turns?!!! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"O9tbW2.0.dc6.pTLpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11694 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ken and all, At 11:23 AM 9/1/99 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 9/1/99 1:08:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time, harti@harti.com >writes: > >> Yes, it seems the real secret in transformers is, that they need a >> changing >> magnetic vector potential A field and only this is needed for an >> induction voltage >> at the secondary coil. > Well the thing that I have trouble with is the following: consider an >ideal square-core transformer with windings on two opposite legs, an input >winding and an output winding. Case 1, no load on the output; case 2, output >heavily loaded. The theory, as I understand it, says if you take a cross >section of one of the center legs the B, H and E fields are the same for case >1 and 2. In one case you are moving a lot of energy and the other you >aren't, yet the fields are the same?? Maybe I am missing something, or maybe >the A field is needed to understand what is going on? This puzzles me too. If you have superconducting windings without any I*I*R loss, you could couple an unlimited amount of energy. with the ~constant fields. I haven't been able to figure it with the A fields yet either, it seems you have the same thing: the difference between the pri and sec. fields. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 09:57:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA01626; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:57:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:57:21 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-4-dyn9.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.102.74.72] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:57:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00c001bef49a$474ca9a0$38b6bfd1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Toroidial transformers with fractional turns?!!! Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:51:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"RIejq3.0.JP.nhLpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11695 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ken, Stefan, and all.. > >> Yes, it seems the real secret in transformers is, that they need a >> changing >> magnetic vector potential A field and only this is needed for an >> induction voltage >> at the secondary coil. > Well the thing that I have trouble with is the following: consider an >ideal square-core transformer with windings on two opposite legs, an input >winding and an output winding. Case 1, no load on the output; case 2, output >heavily loaded. The theory, as I understand it, says if you take a cross >section of one of the center legs the B, H and E fields are the same for case >1 and 2. In one case you are moving a lot of energy and the other you >aren't, yet the fields are the same?? Maybe I am missing something, or maybe >the A field is needed to understand what is going on? The A field is simply a more inclusive way of describing all the phenomena of magnetism. It doesn't change the phenomena in any way. In your example, the loaded secondary generates a field that opposes the primary field, whichever description is used. In some cases however it is impossible to use the flux linkage law to describe a transformer action. Here is an example: A "transformer" which consists of three solenoids stacked parallel next to each other. The outer two solenoids are primaries fed by the same AC source but are either 1) counterwound, or 2) fed from opposite ends. It might appear that any induction will be cancelled out in the central secondary, but in fact the induction is twice that with a single primary. But the two primaries do not induce in each other! In addition B field measurements in the center if the secondary will show no flux! You can't use the flux linkage law in this case because the contour of the flux is changing over time, not being guided by a ferro core. You have to use the motional law in its A field form, since there is no flux at the center of the secondary. On looking at the situation closely you see that the expanding field of the two primaries are opposed, but are also coming toward the central coil in opposite directions. This means the motional induction is additive. This is the exact "transformer" analogy of the Hooper-Monstein effect where two magnets with poles in opposite directions are brought from opposite directions simultaneously towards a central wire. The B field is always zero at the wire even though the induction is twice that of a single magnet. If the secondary of this odd transformer is loaded, its motional A field will induce back emf in both primaries and load them in the same way as an ordinary transformer. Use of the A field description doesn't resolve the basic strangeness of induction, which is the necessity of using two forms of induction to cover all cases. The complete A field form of induction still requires two terms, one for transformer induction and one for motional induction. As Cohn says in an article about this issue (and I paraphrase from memory), "this is the only known fundamental phenomenon that cannot be reduced to a single law". The implication is that it is not a single phenomena at all. In the field- free formulation of Moon and Spencer, where magnetic fields are considered to be action at a distance phenomena between charges in relative motion, the whole situation becomes much clearer. Motional induction is a force between charges in steady relative motion. Transformer induction is a force between charges in accelerated relative motion. This version also implies the possibility of a third form of induction based on second order acceleration-- acceleration of acceleration. This is likely to have effects not seen in the other two forms, as each of these has its own unique characteristics. This second order acceleration is the electronic equivalent to the "jerk" phenomena often seen in inertial drives. To create this jerk induction is not so simple a thing, but it can be done by using nonlinear inductances. If anyone is interested in trying some experiments on these lines I will get into the details with them. Motional induction is a purely relativistic phenomenon. And moving fields can be created by nonmoving bodies. This implies some unusual devices that have not been built as yet. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 12:03:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA08741; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:03:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:03:22 -0700 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:00:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Uban Message-Id: <199909011900.PAA15891@world.std.com> To: billb@eskimo.com, vortexc-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: re: Toroidial transformers with fractional turns?!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"TGlCT3.0.L82.uXNpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11696 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Per Bill B's consternation about how a toroidal solenoid can -actually- couple to secondary windings outside the field of the toroid, an alternative and more physical description has been proffered by the physicist Oleg Jefimenko in one of his electromagnetism books. http://www.as.wvu.edu/coll03/phys/www/jefimenk.htm Dr. Jefimenko reworks Maxwell's equations to some degree, starting from fundamentals which Dr. J_ feels are more basic than usually taken. As a result, he derives a new action formula, which describes directly the operation of 'magnetic flux induction', and which he says is not magnetic at all. This new action he calls the 'electrokinetic force'. It is a force from changing currents which directly induce the opposite current in any other nearby conductor. Thus Lenz's Law, and thus what we've called "electromagnetic induction". The 'changing mag-flux through a closed circuit' description of history is just a shorthand for what is really going on. But this latter introduces various paradoxes, such as Bill B_ has written about: where the B-flux would not be directly visible to a secondary outside the primary torioid, so how could it act?. The electrokinetic force description goes to the heart of the matter showing the action between current elements as being the primarily correct description. I need to add the disclaimer that I'm working from memory and may well have got some of the above descriptions of Dr. Jefimenko's work wrong. But, the essence is as I've stated. Jim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 12:19:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA13734; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:18:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:18:30 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <16a53c2f.24fed5e1@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:17:53 EDT Subject: Re: Flat sheet vs semicylindrical configuration To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Resent-Message-ID: <"jxFjY.0.VM3.5mNpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11697 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 9/1/99 1:58:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, pbfred@choice.net writes: > > The other day I got much more clearer results with a hemisphere. When I > illuminated a colander with a blackened aluminum sheet [should read foil] on > the inside with 2250 watts for 330 seconds, I got a 0.026 N drop or a weight > loss of 1.96 %. Then I illuminated a circular aluminum sheet with the same > area with 2250 watts for 350 seconds with the heating elements about 1/2 > inch from the circular sheet. I got a 0.648 % drop in weight or a 0.010 N > drop. The aluminum sheet was a little bit thicker than the aluminum of the > colander. Its initial weight or downward force was 1.5 N and the colander's > initial downward force was 1.3 N. > That does sound like an excessive difference. Could it be that the holes (I assume) in the colander allow for much more air convection, so that is providing that much more lift? Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 15:19:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA00961; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:18:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:18:16 -0700 Message-ID: <37CDA534.86685DE5@t-online.de> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 00:14:12 +0200 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [de]C-QXW03106 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Oh. My. God. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 0285780152-0001@t-online.de From: Heinzerling_Clan@t-online.de (Juergen Heinzerling) Resent-Message-ID: <"47MJc1.0.rE.eOQpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11698 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William Beaty wrote: > ARTICLES ABOUT THE COLER DEVICE AND THE SWEET VTA!!!! In the Coler > device, (the version with the circle of iron magnets), Guess you got a very good point there, Bill - good idea to see the "arrangement" laterally, Ie. as a topoplogy rather than a simplistic way of adjusting parameters. > > However, in both of these devices the inventor has forgotten to inform us > that a tank circuit (tuned circuit or resonator) is needed. In the Coler > device, the natural atomic resonance of the iron bar magnets will not be > the same as the resonance of the coils he used, and so the effect will be > incredibly weak or nonexistant. I beg to differ - this device has in fact a tunable circuit made up of two additional cylindrical coils, one of which slips into the other. Also, there are two caps in the output lines and a whole lot of mutual capacities in the topology used, so a tank circuit is present. > If they are wrong, then I'm ready for the nice men > in the white coats. Well, you would not be here if it were otherwise...;-) BTW: I must say I always thought the Coler, Sweet and Hendershot devices were just different interpretations of the same song. A lot of fuzz has been made in regard to Hendershot's "homemade caps", but I believe that most of the functioning lies with the magnetic buzzer and the coil arrangement. I once calculated the resonant frequency of the tuned circuit which involved the homemade caps to be in the 140 kHz range, probably somewhat higher. Now regarding Coler, we don't have a decent diagram, but a rather intriguing statement: He thought that magnetism was a high frequency phenomenon of ca. 180 kHz. The measuring equipment used by Coler was substandard, so I guess we should give this some wide margin. This brings us to the VTA, where the "programming" (is this related to homoeopathic information storage?) of magnets is mostly considered as the final secret to this device. The process of programming is absolutely unclear, but if I remember correctly, Sweet used a modified tv set for this purpose. I guess there are a couple of frequencies in the 140 ... 180 kHz range that could be generated this way. I don't say this makes any sense at all, but all three devices seem to indicate that something weird takes place in this range of frequencies. __________________________________________ Jürgen Heinzerling * Author & Investigator __________________________________________ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 15:59:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA13464; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:59:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:59:10 -0700 MR-Received: by mta SOCCER; Relayed; Wed, 01 Sep 1999 18:58:40 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Wed, 01 Sep 1999 18:58:57 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:26:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Sparks are flying!!! To: freenrg-l , vortex-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 18:58:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal Sensitivity: Company-Confidential UA-content-id: E2208ZYBVR3QS8 X400-MTS-identifier: [;04858110909991/4083302@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"HZZqH1.0.HI3.--Qpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11699 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All, Maybe I'm a little dense, but, I keep coming back to a common thread in many of these OU devices, the spark. I've brought this up before but it didn't go anywhere. But recently: Stephan Hartmann in his inquires about spark gap oxidation generated electricity (back spikes). And, Henry Curtis's note about Santilli's work. So I thought I'd give it another try. We have the two ideas presented 1) Stephan Hartmann's idea about a simple chemical reaction going on in the spark gap that has as a by-product some extra electrons. 2) In Santilli's data oxygen is combining with several different low molecular weight elements including carbon to form higher atomic weight elements with the liberation of energy in commercial quantities. Let me add 3 more off the wall conjectures. 3) Remember when Stephan brought up the subject of air entrainment when he blew into a tube with a 1 inch gap between his mouth and the tube, how he got significantly more air volume than when his mouth was directly against the end of the tube. Couldn't something similar be going on with electrons in a spark gap. Maybe as the spark jumps the gap through the air it is entraining excess atmospheric electrons/ions to add too the expected amount of flow. (Yah, I know it's kind of a stretch, but what the hey!) Question: Has anyone tried to replicate this in a sealed environment, so that at some point any excess atmospheric electrons would become depleted? 4) A spark gap could be considered at different moments a capacitor & a resistor. A capacitor in that two conductive surfaces separated by a dielectric (air) with one side connected to a charge, and the other to ground (or whatever). A resistor in that it conducts electricity from one point to another converting some electrons into other forms of energy in the transfer (heat, light). I've even seen it referred to as negative resistance? Consider, in a commutator type spark gap you have two plates in proximity to each other, one with a charge. As the commutator turns these plates are pulled apart in distance thus converting mechanical energy into electrical. Thus momentarily the charged plate has more energy than it was initially given (back spike?). Then as the charge grows from being stretched it reaches a critical level where the dielectric properties of the air fail and the charge jumps across as a spark. Consider also that the spark forms as the conductors are pulled apart, not so much as when the conductors are brought together as the resistance of the dielectric decreases. Perhaps the reverse would apply, as the plates of a capacitor get closer the charge decreases. The attraction of opposite charges pull the plates closer converting electrical energy into mechanical energy. Thus Newman's battery provides the initial charge, then the mechanical energy of the commutator is converted to electricity and fed back to the battery. I think this may also apply to Zaev's system. This would not apply to a fixed gap spark plug type situation. (Yah, I know this is also a stretch {pun intended ;^} ) Question: Has the energy involved in turning the commutator been properly accounted for in the overall system? And last, in the off the wall category..... 5) Tom Bearden's papers indicate that any capacitor is a ZPE gateway, the problem is getting it to stay open to a ZPE energy flow. There may be a connection here. If the commutator spark gap can be considered a capacitor, perhaps during the dynamics of the changing capacitive conductive values involved, the conditions are momentarily right to allow a brief ZPE energy flow to add to the energy of the system. Comments please.... Bill webriggs@concentric.net briggs@XLNsystems.com DISCLAIMER - Any flaky hair brained ideas presented are my own, and not the flaky hair brained ideas of my employer. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 21:59:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA14919; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 21:57:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 21:57:35 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990901215223.2bc72f30@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 21:52:23 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: re: Toroidial transformers with fractional turns?!!! In-Reply-To: <199909011900.PAA15891@world.std.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"MqrGn1.0.0f3._EWpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11703 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jim and all, At 03:00 PM 9/1/99 -0400, you wrote: > > Per Bill B's consternation about how >a toroidal solenoid can -actually- couple to >secondary windings outside the field of the >toroid, an alternative and more physical >description has been proffered by the physicist >Oleg Jefimenko in one of his electromagnetism >books. > >http://www.as.wvu.edu/coll03/phys/www/jefimenk.htm One of his books that discusses this is "Causality, Electromagnetic Induction and Gravitation". He talks about -dA/dt as a "electrokinetic field" at least in some cases, and says it "propagates" like any other EM field, thit is, using "retarded" notation. Of course this propagation would be slow in ferromagnetic materials with large permeability, if one can think of it like this. > > Dr. Jefimenko reworks Maxwell's equations >to some degree, starting from fundamentals which >Dr. J_ feels are more basic than usually taken. > As a result, he derives a new action >formula, which describes directly the operation >of 'magnetic flux induction', and which he says >is not magnetic at all. This new action he calls >the 'electrokinetic force'. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 21:59:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA14878; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 21:57:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 21:57:32 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990901210732.2bc77c10@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 21:07:32 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Oh. My. God. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"EdbRJ2.0.He3.xEWpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11702 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bill and all, At 09:27 AM 9/1/99 -0700, you wrote: > >The Bill Beaty has gone totally apeshit off the wall insane. Either I'm a >raging paranoid lunatic with delusions of grandure, or I've just seen the >core idea behind the Sweet device and the Hans Coler device, and probably >the Tesla car, Hendershot device, and several others. > >It's the "partial-turn toroidial transformer", but with two changes. > > 1) We must use a particular core material so that the oscillating > vector-potential field can mess with the nonlinear physics of > nucleii. > > 2) We must build the magnetic-mode version, rather than the > electrostatic-mode version I described in > http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/a-vectFE.html > >What's the "magnetic mode" version? Simple. Rather than using a short >dipole to connect to the toroidial inductor, we wind a simple loop >antenna. Holding this loop antenna near the toroid will create some >coupling, but it would even be better to wind the loop antenna around the >toroid (wind it around the perimeter, as if the toroid was Saturn, and the >loop-antenna windings were saturn's rings. > >Next we must locate an atomic resonance in the core material. I don't >quite know how to do this. Drive the toroid with a high-power signal >generator, then measure the loop antenna and look for slight rises in >signal as the frequency of the toroid signal is swept around? Once a >resonance is found, the loop antenna on the toroid must be connected in >series with an LC tuned circuit set to the same frequency. Now, when you >send the right frequency of signal to the toroid inductor, a huge signal >will build up in the tuned circuit. This signal will violate conservation >of energy. If you tap off some of this signal and use it to drive the >toroid inductor, the whole device will go into runaway and probably smoke >itself. > >Note: this has NOT BEEN TESTED. > No I haven't tried this exactly, but haven't seen anything unusual yet. But I have only limited frequency sources (60Hz, audio, 60kHz, low MHz), and probably don't know what I'm doing with the (unknown) core characteristics. I have put one turn loops on a core before winding the toroid. Do you think a "tape wound" core would be useful, as a multi-turn coil/magnetic core. Tim V., if I remember OK, posted something a while back about his tests of currents through an electromagnet core. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 21:59:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA14816; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 21:57:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 21:57:28 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990901205455.2bc74a68@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 20:54:55 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: toroids In-Reply-To: <37CD4CE4.E45EBD9F@mpinet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"pZYgH.0.Pd3.uEWpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11700 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jim and all, At 11:57 AM 9/1/99 -0400, you wrote: >Here's something I've been pondering. If a toroid style coil radiates >small or no magnetic field when a current is passed through it then >could you wind several toroid coils for a permanent magnet generator to >lessen the effects of, or defeat lenz law? If the geometry is such that flux can enter the toroid to generate voltage, then it isn't "shielded" anymore. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 21:59:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA14840; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 21:57:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 21:57:30 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990901214537.2bc70b04@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 21:45:37 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Toroidial transformers with fractional turns?!!! In-Reply-To: <006001bef44e$8f351640$38b6bfd1@w7o9k8> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"IZrZb2.0.nd3.vEWpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11701 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HI Fred and all, At 12:49 AM 9/1/99 -0700, you wrote: > >A "transformer" which consists of three solenoids stacked parallel next to >each other. The outer two solenoids are primaries fed by the same AC source >but are either 1) counterwound, or 2) fed from opposite ends. >It might appear that any induction will be cancelled out in the central >secondary, but in fact the induction is twice that with a single primary. >But the two primaries do not induce in each other! In addition B field >measurements in the center if the secondary will show no flux! >You can't use the flux linkage law in this case because the contour of the >flux is changing over time, not being guided by a ferro core. You have to >use the motional law in its A field form, since there is no flux at the >center of the secondary. On looking at the situation closely you see that >the expanding field of the two primaries are opposed, but are also coming >toward the central coil in opposite directions. This means the motional >induction is additive. This is the opposite of what I see with 3 solenoids. Also the 2 primaries link some in either case. In your case do the 2 primaries need to be moving toward each other like in the H-M effect? and Thanks, I need to write all these papers mentioned in the last few months and go to some physics library. >> >>Have you read the Hooper paper on "all electrical motional induction"? > The 2 papers are still at: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/9357/hooper01.html >Yes I have read all of Hooper's stuff and those college guys who tested it >too. Are the college tests on the web? ... >No, I want it, so let me know where it can be found. I'm looking. > >Thats it. Hooper in one of his patents (I forget the name and number) shows >how a rotating cylinder made of permanent magnets with poles at the ends >creates a BxV force down the center. According to him this force will affect >all matter whether charged or not. US. 3610971? That also sounds interesting. There has been discussion here if a bar or cylinder magnet rotated along its axis has "moving field lines". My example was an solenoid electromagnet with a rotating shaft as its core. It goes to the basics of what a magnetic field is. >BTW I am still researching your question, "what is an open circuit?" It is >not a trivial question. > For rail guns, motors, etc. it seems to me to mean that the circuit isn'r rigid but parts can show forces with respect to other parts, the same as what you said in one of your recent posts. >Fred > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 22:10:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA23063; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:09:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:09:29 -0700 From: "Peter Fred" To: Subject: RE: Flat sheet vs semicylindrical configuration Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 01:00:05 -0400 Message-ID: <000401bef500$066c0460$c68eadd1@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <16a53c2f.24fed5e1@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"bi_p5.0.Be5.9QWpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11704 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Keasy@aol.com [mailto:Keasy@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 3:18 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flat sheet vs semicylindrical configuration In a message dated 9/1/99 1:58:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, pbfred@choice.net writes: > > The other day I got much more clearer results with a hemisphere. When I > illuminated a colander with a blackened aluminum sheet [should read foil] on > the inside with 2250 watts for 330 seconds, I got a 0.026 N drop or a weight > loss of 1.96 %. Then I illuminated a circular aluminum sheet with the same > area with 2250 watts for 350 seconds with the heating elements about 1/2 > inch from the circular sheet. I got a 0.648 % drop in weight or a 0.010 N > drop. The aluminum sheet was a little bit thicker than the aluminum of the > colander. Its initial weight or downward force was 1.5 N and the colander's > initial downward force was 1.3 N. > That does sound like an excessive difference. Could it be that the holes (I assume) in the colander allow for much more air convection, so that is providing that much more lift? Ken I forgot to mention a point about the run done with the colander. I wrapped the inside of the colander with a sheet of aluminum foil that I blacken with a candle (to decrease the reflection). When I ran the run for the circular aluminum sheet that had a thickness close to that of the colander I also blackened the face exposed to the illumination. When the colander is not wrapped on the inside or the outside with aluminum foil not much weight change occurs. The hot plates are above and the sphericity of the colander is convex downward. With the convex down condition, the air convection or hot air effect (?) should be less than with the convex up condition. Today I ran a similar experiment using 3000 watts with out blackening the inside of the colander with a candle. The inside was wrapped with aluminum foil. For 350 seconds there was a 2.0% weight loss or a 0.030 N drop. This was the first run. On the eleventh run I repeated the experiment with the same conditions and got a 1.48% weight loss or a 0.022 N drop. This first run is always the strongest. Tomorrow I hope to reduce this problem by cooing the hot plate heating elements with a fan between runs. Peter From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 22:13:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA25000; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:12:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:12:24 -0700 Message-ID: <37CE073C.38D54219@harti.com> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 07:12:28 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Comments about the new Newman press release and latest tests... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_zjOP3.0.V66.uSWpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11705 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN 11445 East Via Linda, No. 416 Scottsdale, Arizona 85259 (480) 657-3722 josephnewman@earthlink.net www.josephnewman.com FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE (September 1, 1999) WATTS/H.P. TEST PROVES THE TRUTH! [All motors tested start test from dead stop position of motors.] TEST:(1). In 2 seconds the newest and original Newman Motor operating while connected to Solar Panels lifts 14 lbs 2 feet high while drawing ONLY .2 amps! ************************************************************************** REPLY TO ABOVE RESULTS JOE NEWMAN DOESN'T SPECIFY THE VOLTAGE OF SOLAR PANELS USED. BUT PREVIOUS TEST RESULTS WHERE 104 VOLTS. CALCULATE THE OUTPUT POWER: 14 LBS * 2 FEET /2 SECONDS = 14 LB-FT/SEC OR 14/550 = .02545 HP = (746 X .02545) 19 WATTS OUTPUT. THE INPUT POWER ASSUMING 104 VOLTS X 0.2 AMPS = 20.8 WATTS. SO NEWMAN MOTOR ISN'T "OVER- UNITY" STILL JOE SHOULD STATE WHAT THE VOLTAGE IS FOR HIS TEST RESULTS. ************************************************************************** (2). While connected to the same Solar Panels (for maximum current production), the 1/14 HP Grainger Geared Motor for High Torque that is designed to lift 24 pounds will NOT lift said 14 lbs when connected to the Solar Panels. The 1/14 HP Grainger Motor draws a maximum current from the Solar Panels of 6.4 amps and the Grainger Motor PRODUCES NO LIFT! (3). The MinnKota Motor (representing technology stolen from Joseph Newman) draws a maximum current of 6.4 amps and DOES NOT LIFT said 14 lbs. The Minn- Kota (Newman) Motor is equivalent to 3HP combustible engine when pushing an aluminum boat and it draws maximum current from the said Solar Panels, but produces NO LIFT! ******************************************************************** REPLY TO ABOVE NEWMAN TEST RESULTS JOE NEWMAN'S PREVIOUS TESTS RESULTS FROM SOLAR PANELS WHERE 6 PANELS PRODUCING 17 VOLTS AND 0.25 AMPS EACH. THE SOLAR PANEL VOLTAGE WAS ONLY 2.7 VOLTS AT 0.28 AMPS OR MORE LAST TIME.WHY ARE NO SPECIFICATIONS MADE THIS TIME? THOSE 12 VOLT MOTORS USE SEVERAL AMPS FOR FULL LOAD, BUT IF JOE JUST GOT A 120 VOLT DC MOTOR IT WOULD USE MUCH LESS AMPERAGE FOR SAME POWER AS PER: WATTS = VOLT X AMPS. SO THE GRAINGER MOTOR AND MINNKOTTA MOTOR WON'T RUN FROM SOLAR PANELS BECAUSE OF TOO MUCH CURRENT DRAW. THE IMPEDENCE OF SOLAR PANELS IS TOO HIGH. BUT IF JOE OBTAINED SUBFRACTIONAL 120 VDC PERMANENT MAGNET MOTOR OR JUST UNIVERSAL SEWING MACHINE MOTOR IT WOULD PROBABLY RUN FROM THE SOLAR PANELS. ******************************************************************* I used the SAME voltage with a battery pack as voltage of said Solar Panels. THE NEWMAN MOTOR LIFTED 100 LBS 2 FEET HIGH IN LESS THAN 1 SECOND! The Motor now drew 1 amp of current, but the BATTERY VOLTAGE DID NOT NOTICEABLY FALL! NOTE: The test 3 Minnkota Motor in sharp contrast when connected to a DEEP CYCLE TROLLING 12-VOLT BATTERY ---- ITDREW MORE THAN 50 AMPS (Pegged out 50 Amp Meter) and WOULD NOT LIFT SAID 100 LBS! NOTE: The NEWMAN MOTOR HAS NO MECHANICAL GEAR and ITS POWER COMES FROM ITS "MASS" --- "E = mc2"! NOTE: Motors IN THE REAL WORLD START OFF UNDER-LOAD. FACT: Motors that don't perform well under load from dead start are BLOWING SMOKE. FACT: These TESTS & FACTS PROVES THE TRUTH! Of all the electric motors sold in the Grainger Catalogue of 1998-1999 (Catalogue No. 389), NONE WILL LIFT SAID 14 LBS WHILE OPERATING ON THE ABOVE-DESCRIBED SOLAR PANELS.IN CONTRAST, THE REVOLUTIONARY NEWMAN MOTOR OPERATES ON VOLTAGE NOT CURRENT! ALL FUTURE NEWMAN ELECTRIC MOTORS WILL NOW BE DESIGNED TO OPERATE ON THE MASS (E = mc2.) NOT CURRENT or WATTAGE! Now ponder the TREMENDOUS BENEFICIALEFFECT THIS WILL HAVE FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, FACT: As I make the Newman Motor larger and larger it uses LESS and LESS current and wattage and PRODUCES MORE AND MORE POWER! Join me in its mass production! [Signed] Joseph Westley Newman(480) 657-3722 11445 East Via Linda, No. 416 Scottsdale, Arizona 85259 ************************************************************************* REPLY TO ABOVE JOE NEWMAN MOTOR THEORY JOES MOTOR USED FOR THESE TESTS WEIGHS 400 LBS IF SAME AS PREVIOUS MOTOR. YET IT ONLY PRODUCES 200 LB-FT/SECOND = 0.3636 HP = 271.27 WATTS MOTOR USES 1 AMP AT ASSUMED 104 VOLTS = 104 WATTS. THAT IS MORE OUTPUT POWER THAN INPUT, BUT JOE DID NOT SPECIFY THE EXACT VOLTAGE OF THE BATTERY PACK. IF MOTOR IS TRULY PRODUCING TWICE THE OUTPUT POWER AS INPUT POWER THAN JOE NEWMAN SHOULD JUST CONNECT GENERATOR TO MOTOR SHAFT AND KEEP IT RUNNING CONTINOUSLY WITH NO MORE EXTERNAL POWER NEEDED. EXACTLY HOW BIG WILL IT HAVE TO BE TO PRODUCE 10KW THAT HE HAS PROMISED? HOW MUCH ENERGY IS USED TO MINE THE COPPER TO PRODUCE A MOTOR THAT WEIGHS SEVERAL HUNDRED POUNDS? THE SAME CAN BE SAID OF SOLAR PANELS, WHAT IS COST OF PRODUCTION AND HOW MUCH MATERIAL AND ENERGY IS USED FOR PRODUCTION? DIFFERENT MOTORS ARE DESIGNED TO START UNDER LOAD OR NOT, READ ANY GOOD ELECTRICAL MOTOR BOOK FOR MORE INFORMATION. DID JOE NEWMAN TEST EVERY MOTOR IN THE GRAINGER CATALOG WITH HIS SOLAR PANELS? JUST GET ~100 VOLT DC SUB- FRACTIONAL MOTOR AND TEST IT WITH THE SOLAR PANELS BUT GEAR IT DOWN. THE MINNKOTTA TROLLING MOTOR IS NOT DESIGNED TO PRODUCE ENOUGH TORQUE TO LIFT 100 POUNDS, IT TURNS A PROPELLAR AT A FEW HUNDRED RPM. NOTE THAT JOE DIDN'T TEST THE 1/14 HP GRAINGER MOTOR WITH A 12 VOLT BATTERY TO GET TEST RESULTS, IT PROBABLY WOULD HAVE WORKED TO IT'S SPECIFICATIONS AND PRODUCED 1/14 HP OR 39.26 LB FEET/SECOND = 53.38 WATTS AT 12 VOLTS AND 4.44 AMPS SEE WEBPGAGE "WWW.GRAINGER.COM" TO SEE MOTORS AVAILABLE, ETC. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 22:23:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA18161; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:20:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:20:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37CE080E.33393596@telusplanet.net> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 22:15:59 -0700 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Oh. My. God. References: <3.0.6.16.19990901210732.2bc77c10@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3nIkY.0.fR4.WaWpt"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11706 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Very exciting Bill et al., I'm wondering... what does Harvey Norris think of all this? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 23:13:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA08493; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:11:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:11:43 -0700 Message-ID: <37CE1524.B2A55245@harti.com> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 08:11:48 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Battery test proves mechanical overunity ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"k3pJo3.0.c42.VKXpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11707 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: When Newman sayis in his press release: > I used the SAME voltage with a battery pack as voltage of said Solar Panels. > THE NEWMAN MOTOR LIFTED 100 LBS 2 FEET HIGH IN LESS THAN 1 SECOND! The > Motor now drew 1 amp of current, but the BATTERY VOLTAGE DID NOT > NOTICEABLY FALL! > ************************************************************************* > This should mean: > JOES MOTOR USED FOR THESE TESTS WEIGHS 400 LBS IF SAME AS PREVIOUS MOTOR. > IT PRODUCES 200 LB-FT/SECOND = 0.3636 HP = 271.27 WATTS > MOTOR USES 1 AMP AT ASSUMED 104 VOLTS = 104 WATTS. THAT IS MORE OUTPUT POWER > THAN INPUT, BUT JOE DID NOT SPECIFY THE EXACT VOLTAGE OF THE BATTERY PACK. this would be indeed pretty unconventional, cause this would prove mechanical overunity, if the voltage is indeed 104 Volts. We have also to count in the inner resistance of the battery pack vice versa the solar panel´s inner resistance, where I guess the inner resistance of the solar panels in series is much higher, than the inner resistance of the batteries, so the real driving voltage at the motor is less with using the solar panels. Can this lifting of the 100 LBS with 104 Volts battery voltage be seen in his new video tape ? I will be interested to see, what the response will be. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 23:57:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA16958; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:57:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:57:15 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flat sheet vs semicylindrical configuration Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 16:56:41 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <16a53c2f.24fed5e1@aol.com> <000401bef500$066c0460$c68eadd1@default> In-Reply-To: <000401bef500$066c0460$c68eadd1@default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA16937 Resent-Message-ID: <"veT0k3.0.p84.B_Xpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11708 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 2 Sep 1999 01:00:05 -0400, Peter Fred wrote: [snip] >Today I ran a similar experiment using 3000 watts with out blackening the >inside of the colander with a candle. The inside was wrapped with aluminum >foil. For 350 seconds there was a 2.0% weight loss or a 0.030 N drop. This >was the first run. On the eleventh run I repeated the experiment with the >same conditions and got a 1.48% weight loss or a 0.022 N drop. This first >run is always the strongest. Tomorrow I hope to reduce this problem by >cooing the hot plate heating elements with a fan between runs. [snip] If I may make a small suggestion. Perhaps you could put the heat source above the object, so that it is not directly affected by convection currents, but only by radiant heat. If it still shows a weight loss, then you may have something. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 07:13:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA19743; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:13:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:13:28 -0700 From: "Peter Fred" To: Subject: RE: Flat sheet vs semicylindrical configuration Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:04:05 -0400 Message-ID: <000501bef54c$04b457c0$c68eadd1@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"Pzby12.0.Oq4.8Oept"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11709 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk [mailto:rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au] Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 2:57 AM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flat sheet vs semicylindrical configuration On Thu, 2 Sep 1999 01:00:05 -0400, Peter Fred wrote: [snip] >Today I ran a similar experiment using 3000 watts with out blackening the >inside of the colander with a candle. The inside was wrapped with aluminum >foil. For 350 seconds there was a 2.0% weight loss or a 0.030 N drop. This >was the first run. On the eleventh run I repeated the experiment with the >same conditions and got a 1.48% weight loss or a 0.022 N drop. This first >run is always the strongest. Tomorrow I hope to reduce this problem by >cooing the hot plate heating elements with a fan between runs. [snip] If I may make a small suggestion. Perhaps you could put the heat source above the object, so that it is not directly affected by convection currents, but only by radiant heat. If it still shows a weight loss, then you may have something. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au Pardon me for not explaining the experimental set up better. The heat source has always been from above. [And it illuminates the inside of the colander that is resting on the horizontal plane normally i.e. convex downward.] The heat source also shines downward on the circular aluminum sheet that is of the same surface area of the colander. If I have time today I hope illuminate the both the colander and the circular aluminum sheet from below and see what the difference between this and the above conditions. In the heat source below condition the colander will be convex up. Regards Peter Fred http://ww4.choice.net/~pbfred/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 09:46:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA08091; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:45:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:45:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:45:02 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: Scott Little cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Oh. My. God. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990901141937.0105d848@mail.eden.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"jlf8E1.0.H-1.Lcgpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11710 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, Scott Little wrote: > To first order at least, you'll get nothing from a loop antenna located > outside a toroid UNLESS the loop passes through the center hole of the > toroid. Right, it can't work... unless the AC field is the same as the displacement current in a capacitor dielectric, and this will create a very weak b-field... which will be collected by the resonator and result in a growing AC voltage across the resonator components. > Are you hoping to catch the stray B that leaks out of real toroids? Nope. I'm imagining a model for electromagnetic wave propagation which looks like a physics lecture demo: a chain made of copper rings alternating with laminated iron rings. Each one creates a circular b-field, which leads to a current, which leads to a circular b-field, etc. If a copper ring is removed, there should still be a slight coupling because a changing b-field would act like a capacitor's displacement current. > Your enthusiam is infectious! I hope it's only insanity/enthusiasm, otherwise someone will build this, neglect to use a blast shield, and end up with copper shrapnel imbedded in their skin. Or not! :) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 10:12:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA18406; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:11:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:11:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:11:13 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Oh. My. God. In-Reply-To: <37CDA534.86685DE5@t-online.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"GTxQP3.0.VV4.p-gpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11711 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 2 Sep 1999, Juergen Heinzerling wrote: > > However, in both of these devices the inventor has forgotten to inform us > > that a tank circuit (tuned circuit or resonator) is needed. In the Coler > > device, the natural atomic resonance of the iron bar magnets will not be > > the same as the resonance of the coils he used, and so the effect will be > > incredibly weak or nonexistant. > > I beg to differ - this device has in fact a tunable circuit made up of > two additional cylindrical coils, one of which slips into the other. > Also, there are two caps in the output lines and a whole lot of mutual > capacities in the topology used, so a tank circuit is present. Yes, but there is no specific tank circuit as such. The Coler device looks like an "initial discovery", rather than the final invention that Coler claims was running his house. It seems clear to me that the "final invention" would need a high-energy, high-Q tank circuit, not a parasitic resonator. > This brings us to the VTA, where the "programming" (is this related to > homoeopathic information storage?) of magnets is mostly considered as > the final secret to this device. The process of programming is > absolutely unclear, but if I remember correctly, Sweet used a modified > tv set for this purpose. I guess there are a couple of frequencies in > the 140 ... 180 kHz range that could be generated this way. If these materials have some sort of nuclear resonance (like proton precession frequency that water has at 2025 Hz), then these devices might be taking advantage of it. The Sweet device is odd, with its PROGRAMMABLE resonance frequency. UPDATE: I now see that if the phase relationship between the large b-field in the donut inductor and the large b-field around the loop antenna are at 90degrees, and are about equal in strength, it should cause the field within the donut to rotate at the operating frequency... and should force electrons/protons to flip at that frequency as the magnetic domains flip! A nuclear/magnetic vortex. To make a closed-loop self-acting device, we might want to drive the donut coil with the voltage across the tank capacitor, while driving the perimeter coil with the current in series with the tank circuit. > I don't say this makes any sense at all, but all three devices seem to > indicate that something weird takes place in this range of frequencies. Yes. If they are not just stories and hoaxes, then ANYONE should be able to penetrate their secrets if they just look at them the right way. Me, I stayed up way too late and started having semi-hallucinations. I've heard that Immanual Swedenborg used a similar technique to trigger religious states! I can SEE the thing working in my mind. This of course doesn't mean it will work in the real world. However, if such a device is possible, then the images I'm seeing include Tesla resonance antennas, Bearden concepts, scalar/torsion concepts, Keely stuff, as well as a variety of electromagnetic free-energy device claims (Maybe the Methertina device is the electrostatic equivalent, while this thing the magnetic version?) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 10:21:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA23301; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:19:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:19:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:19:45 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Oh. My. God. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990901210732.2bc77c10@earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"by8L1.0.vh5.o6hpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11712 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, Dave Dameron wrote: > >send the right frequency of signal to the toroid inductor, a huge signal > >will build up in the tuned circuit. This signal will violate conservation > >of energy. If you tap off some of this signal and use it to drive the > >toroid inductor, the whole device will go into runaway and probably smoke > >itself. > > > >Note: this has NOT BEEN TESTED. > > > No I haven't tried this exactly, but haven't seen anything unusual yet. But > I have only limited frequency sources (60Hz, audio, 60kHz, low MHz), and > probably don't know what I'm doing with the (unknown) core characteristics. If you drive a toroid at 60Hz, wrap a coil around its perimeter (not through the hole), and attach this coil to a high-Q 60Hz tuned circuit, do you see any voltage appear on the tuned circuit? Conventional physics says that there should be none at all unless the toroid winding acts like a 1-turn coil (if the wire is wound beginning at one end, wrapping around the donut, then ending at the same spot, we'v accidentally created a 1-turn coil as well as a high-value inductor.) > I have put one turn loops on a core before winding the toroid. Do you think > a "tape wound" core would be useful, as a multi-turn coil/magnetic core. > Tim V., if I remember OK, posted something a while back about his tests of > currents through an electromagnet core. I think the magnetic material will be the critical thing (although laminations would be needed to reduce inductive heating, especially if we run the thing at higher than 60Hz). Maybe a water-filled plastic donut wrapped with wire and driven at the water proton precession frequency (close to 2KHz) would do something interesting. I've never heard of anyone driving water with fiercely strong magnetism at the proton frequency. Maybe it will explode after the resonance builds high enough? Or, perhaps the stories about the Keely 21KHz frequency water-explosions are a misdirection, and the actual frequency is 2.1KHz. Heh. "Those who understand will immediately see that the 21KHz has the decimal in the wrong spot." Like the misdirection they used when publishing the first article about High Temperature Copper-oxide superconductors back around 1986. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 10:22:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA24773; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:21:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:21:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:21:08 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Anyone know Oleg Jefimenko? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"mT5kW2.0.u26.68hpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11713 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Anyone have Dr. Jefimenko's Email addr? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 10:52:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA10723; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:52:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:52:23 -0700 Message-ID: <37CEB910.147390F1@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 20:51:12 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Magnetic susceptibility of the Sn ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"L047_2.0.Nd2.Nbhpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11714 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I could not find on the web the magnetic susceptibility of the Sn. Anybody know it? Interestingly, copper is diamagnetic (-0.98 10^-5) next to bismuth (-1.66 10^-5) respecting the TMB experiment. It would be interesting to replace copper with bismuth or better with gold (-3.6 10^5) on TMB. Note: It seems the stable magnetic levitation experiment would be done by copper blocks instead of bismuth (using some stacked pennies), maybe little harder. :) Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 13:45:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA16327; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:43:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:43:45 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:43:07 EDT Subject: Re: Oh. My. God. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Resent-Message-ID: <"-YBsm2.0._-3.06kpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11715 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 9/2/99 9:47:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, billb@eskimo.com writes: > > > To first order at least, you'll get nothing from a loop antenna located > > outside a toroid UNLESS the loop passes through the center hole of the > > toroid. > > Right, it can't work... unless the AC field is the same as the > displacement current in a capacitor dielectric, and this will create a > very weak b-field... which will be collected by the resonator and result > in a growing AC voltage across the resonator components. > Well let's see if I understand this: you can have two wound toroids in the same plane, the first is driven. The displacement current from the first goes through the the center of the second and causes an induced dB/dt in the the core of the second toroid. The induced field in the second creates a voltage in the windings of the second which you can use to power a resonant circuit. And I guess one question is whether a load on the resonant circuit will be reflected back on the drive of the first toroid? Sounds interesting, although it may be a little off topic from the original proposal. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 14:44:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA05566; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 14:44:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 14:44:12 -0700 Message-ID: <37CEEF96.B1A1C52E@harti.com> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 23:43:50 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , Free Energy Subject: Re: Joseph Newman's response to Stefan Hartmann's comments X-Priority: 2 (High) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"c156U2.0.sM1.i-kpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11716 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If Joe Newman can show with his motor, that 104 VOLTS x 1 AMP= 104 Watts of electrical input power into his motor can lift constantly a 100 LBS WEIGHT 2 FEETS HIGH IN LESS THAN 1 SECOND, which means: IT PRODUCES 200 LB-FT/SECOND = 0.3636 HP = 271.27 WATTS mechanical output power versus MOTOR INPUT USES 1 AMP AT ASSUMED 104 VOLTS = 104 WATTS electrical input power. I agree: THAT IS MORE OUTPUT POWER THAN INPUT POWER ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 20:27:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA04275; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:26:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:26:59 -0700 Message-ID: <37CF400A.B25D6DFC@ihug.co.nz> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 15:27:06 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic susceptibility of the Sn ? References: <37CEB910.147390F1@verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IoPWM.0.h21.10qpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11717 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Are you saying that gold is more diamagnetic than bismuth? I thought bismuth was the most diamagnetic short of superconductors. Copper seems surprisingly close to bismuth... John Berry hamdi ucar wrote: > Hi, > > I could not find on the web the magnetic susceptibility of the Sn. Anybody know it? > > Interestingly, copper is diamagnetic (-0.98 10^-5) next to bismuth (-1.66 10^-5) respecting the TMB experiment. > > It would be interesting to replace copper with bismuth or better with gold (-3.6 10^5) on TMB. > > Note: It seems the stable magnetic levitation experiment would be done by copper blocks instead of bismuth (using some stacked pennies), maybe little harder. :) > > Regards, > > hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 20:56:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA20539; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:56:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:56:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990902202655.243fb65a@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 20:26:55 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Oh. My. God. In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.19990901210732.2bc77c10@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"J92e5.0.l05.jRqpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11718 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bill, Ken and all, At 10:19 AM 9/2/99 -0700, Bill wrote: >If you drive a toroid at 60Hz, wrap a coil around its perimeter (not >through the hole), and attach this coil to a high-Q 60Hz tuned circuit, do >you see any voltage appear on the tuned circuit? Conventional physics >says that there should be none at all unless the toroid winding acts like >a 1-turn coil (if the wire is wound beginning at one end, wrapping around >the donut, then ending at the same spot, we'v accidentally created a >1-turn coil as well as a high-value inductor.) I guess the first "series" circuit I tried doesn't have enough Q. The C= 7.75uF, and inductor = 2400 turns of AWG 24 wire with an i.d.= 3cm. I "tuned" it to 60Hz by a number of Si steel pieces placed in the bore. The wire in the coil has a resistance of 38 Ohms, which results in a Q of 9, or less. When fed (all in series, so the LC could be considered in parallel as well) by a wire _through_ a driven toroid, I get about 12 mV AC across the L. Measuring the AC directly from the toroid with the "1 turn" link, I measure ~4mV, as reference. For the test, using a 1 turn loop not through the toroid bore, I get <3mV, could be all stray pickup. Yes the toroid windings as a whole looks like a 1 turn link, but its coupling is too low to the pickup loop at 60Hz. (The reason I had toroids with 1 azimuthal (saturn ring) turn in the first place was to counteract the 1 turn effective of the single-layer winding in magnetic force experiments). > >Maybe a water-filled plastic donut wrapped with wire and driven at the >water proton precession frequency (close to 2KHz) would do something >interesting. I've never heard of anyone driving water with fiercely >strong magnetism at the proton frequency. Maybe it will explode after the >resonance builds high enough? Or, perhaps the stories about the Keely >21KHz frequency water-explosions are a misdirection, and the actual >frequency is 2.1KHz. Heh. "Those who understand will immediately see >that the 21KHz has the decimal in the wrong spot." Like the >misdirection they used when publishing the first article about High >Temperature Copper-oxide superconductors back around 1986. Yes it is about 2kHz. Are there any "saturation" effects? There is a noticeable decay. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 20:56:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA20588; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:56:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:56:36 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990902205105.243f64d6@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 20:51:05 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Magnetic susceptibility of the Sn ? In-Reply-To: <37CEB910.147390F1@verisoft.com.tr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"SgAoe.0.a15.qRqpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11719 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Hamdi, At 08:51 PM 9/2/99 +0300, you wrote: > >Hi, > >I could not find on the web the magnetic susceptibility of the Sn. Anybody know it? > http://www.reade.com/Particle_Briefings/magnetic_susceptibilities.html These are "mass susceptibilities" in cgs units, though. Tin -37 Graphite -6 Copper -5.46 Bismuth -280 -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 22:42:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA12081; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 22:38:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 22:38:55 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re: Magnetic susceptibility of the Sn ? Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 15:38:22 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <37CEB910.147390F1@verisoft.com.tr> <3.0.6.16.19990902205105.243f64d6@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990902205105.243f64d6@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA12062 Resent-Message-ID: <"LWQrD3.0.gy2.lxrpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11720 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 02 Sep 1999 20:51:05, Dave Dameron wrote: [snip] >http://www.reade.com/Particle_Briefings/magnetic_susceptibilities.html >These are "mass susceptibilities" in cgs units, though. >Tin -37 >Graphite -6 >Copper -5.46 >Bismuth -280 >-Dave I wonder if this is indicative of a small remnant room temperature superconductivity in these substances? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 00:57:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA05084; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 00:54:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 00:54:21 -0700 Message-ID: <37CF7E77.12640CA6@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 10:53:27 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic susceptibility of the Sn ? References: <37CEB910.147390F1@verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tKHvN3.0.LF1.jwtpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11721 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hamdi ucar wrote: > > Hi, > > I could not find on the web the magnetic susceptibility of the Sn. Anybody know it? > > Interestingly, copper is diamagnetic (-0.98 10^-5) next to bismuth (-1.66 10^-5) respecting the TMB experiment. Oh, my physics book appears giving totally wrong numbers! This why all the night i fail to obtain levitation with copper instead of bismuth. Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 01:02:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA06689; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 01:00:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 01:00:08 -0700 Message-ID: <37CF8007.5A9EA328@harti.com> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 10:00:07 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Dameron , Newman-L Mailing List , Free Energy Subject: Re: Joseph Newman's response to Stefan Hartmann's comments References: <3.0.6.16.19990902204014.243f7fac@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Vu4HO3.0.Ke1.70upt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11722 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave Dameron schrieb: > > Hi Stefan, > At 11:43 PM 9/2/99 +0200, you wrote: > >If Joe Newman can show with his motor, > >that 104 VOLTS x 1 AMP= 104 Watts of electrical input power > >into his motor can lift constantly a > > 100 LBS WEIGHT 2 FEETS HIGH IN LESS THAN 1 SECOND, > >which means: > >IT PRODUCES 200 LB-FT/SECOND = 0.3636 HP = 271.27 WATTS mechanical > >output power > >versus > >MOTOR INPUT USES 1 AMP AT ASSUMED 104 VOLTS = 104 WATTS electrical input > >power. > > > >I agree: THAT IS MORE OUTPUT POWER THAN INPUT POWER ! > It does sound like this, but why stop at 1 sec, especially since he had to > accelerate the rotor as a flywheel from a "dead stop" also during this time?? > > Maybe someone who has seen it closely will give some more information. > -Dave Yes, has somebody from the list been at the last demo and has seen this ? First hand report ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 02:36:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA16304; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 02:33:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 02:33:19 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Oh. My. God. Message-Id: <936351197.16805.324@excite.com> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 02:33:17 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.29 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"ob4hn1.0.f-3.VNvpt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11723 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 01 Sep 1999 21:07:32, Dave Dameron wrote: > Hi Bill and all, > At 09:27 AM 9/1/99 -0700, you wrote: > > > > >It's the "partial-turn toroidial transformer", but with two changes. > > > > 1) We must use a particular core material so that the oscillating > > vector-potential field can mess with the nonlinear physics of > > nucleii. > > > > 2) We must build the magnetic-mode version, rather than the > > electrostatic-mode version I described in > > http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/a-vectFE.html > > > >What's the "magnetic mode" version? Simple. Rather than using a short > >dipole to connect to the toroidial inductor, we wind a simple loop > >antenna. Holding this loop antenna near the toroid will create some > >coupling, but it would even be better to wind the loop antenna around the > >toroid (wind it around the perimeter, as if the toroid was Saturn, and the > >loop-antenna windings were saturn's rings. > > The toroid or donut should not produce a magnetic field similar to a single turn; those field lines would be at right angles to each other. What you are describing would be the same as surrounding a lateral or horizontally wound coil with a toroidal winding of verticle winds around its diameter. I do not know if this construction can imply the effects of a loop that encompasses the area of a flux change to induce an emf without the field lines interacting or crossing the wires in the conventional manner. This whole subject has my head spinning, but I think Fred E. has made some very good points about the dual nature of induced voltages created by two different methods of interaction. Incidentally the first tesla coil I built was an inefficient 20 inch diameter model that produced 3 inch discharges. By creating a larger 7 ft diameter winding around this coil and spacing the windings apart so that the inductances were supposedly identical by Wheelers formula, the outer ring coil could produce a 1/2 inch discharge by simply turning the inside coil on. Most of the field lines did not cross the ring, yet an appreciable emf was developed by the principle of a loop that enclosed a flux change. In that case both the windings were lateral, something different from this vision... HDN ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 08:36:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA25397; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:34:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:34:37 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990903082915.2d1ff526@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 08:29:15 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Bismuth, was Magnetic susceptibility In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.19990902205105.243f64d6@earthlink.net> <37CEB910.147390F1@verisoft.com.tr> <3.0.6.16.19990902205105.243f64d6@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"i9kgY3.0.eC6.Dg-pt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11724 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:38 PM 9/3/99 +1000, Robin wrote: >I wonder if this is indicative of a small remnant room temperature >superconductivity in these substances? > > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk I lookup more info on Bismuth, and it is a low temp superconductor, esp. in films. At room temp it has about the highest resistivity of any metal, higher than nichrome or mercury. It also has a low specific heat and a high magneto-resistive effect. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 15:23:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA05801; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:20:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:20:36 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Fri, 03 Sep 1999 18:20:00 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Fri, 03 Sep 1999 18:19:48 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 18:08:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: Bismuth, was Magnetic susceptibility In-reply-to: <3.0.6.16.19990903082915.2d1ff526@earthlink.net> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 18:20:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2205ZYBXQ7T8V X400-MTS-identifier: [;00028130909991/4088749@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"YjMAd.0.YQ1.qc4qt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11725 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All, Interesting that the topic of bismuth should come up, here is a reference that I saw a while back. Normally I wouldn't lend any credence to a source such as this but it kind of stuck in my head. So here it is, you may want to keep several thousand grains of salt handy. From: "http://www.anw.com/aliens/ArtsParts.htm" Interestingly, the initial report on the analysis of the "shielding" pieces indicates that they are made of dozens of microscopic (3-4 micron) layers of Bismuth, with thicker (20 micron) layers of Magnesium separating them - layers thinner than a sheet of paper. Bismuth is an interesting element, not ordinarily used in thin layers. No lab or technician has been able to explain how these pieces were made or what purpose they might have. They had never seen anything like them. Since the Bismuth is very dense (like lead) it makes sense to use thick layers of Magnesium (very light) to separate the Bismuth layers, and build a thick panel of material. Bismuth is also mentioned in the literature as being electrogravitic. Spinning discs of Bismuth (patented by GE Engineer Henry Wallace: Pat.#3626605, 3626606, & 3823570) have apparently been shown to DEFY GRAVITY. Bismuth, with a strong positive electrostatic charge applied to it, has also been shown to actually loose weight or mass, right down to ZERO. Spheres of Bismuth, when dropped, have reportedly fallen faster than they are supposed to (according to Newton's "Laws"). It is strange stuff, and this "UFO crash debris" not only contains ultra thin layers (3 microns - much thinner than paper) of Bismuth, but it is absolutely PURE - no Oxygen, nothing (according to the reports coming in from researcher Linda Moulten Howe) Perhaps even more significantly, Linda Howe has been speaking with a man called "Dan" who has verified that he worked at the Aeronautical Systems Division at Edwards AFB and also at Wright Patterson AFB, back in the 70's. He became very disturbed when he heard of this "shell" objects that Art Bell had been sent. Dan was worried because during his employment as a research physicist, working on Top Secret back engineering projects, he says he was handed some pieces of material to analyze, and found, at the time, that they were made of about 30 ultra thin layers of PURE BISMUTH, separated by thicker layers of Magnesium! In other words, the strange piece of material that the Air Force wanted him to study and identify was nearly identical to the pieces which Art Bell now has. Dan never did identify the purpose of the Air Force piece, but now thinks that the purpose might indeed be the levitation of a craft. Properties: It is the most diamagnetic of all metals- it repels magnetic fields. It may also affect gravity waves. It is a grayish white metal. Super elastic - can be elongated to 3-400% without damage. Adding to the mystery, the portion of the Period Table of the Elements at right shows how Bismuth (Bi) and the mysterious "element 115" lie right on top of each other. (click the image to view the full table of Elements) When elements appear in the same column (series), they tend to share characteristics (such as the inertness of the noble gases). Element 115 has yet to be discovered or created (by humans), but it is of interest because of the story that Robert Lazar and others tell, namely that alien spacecraft make use of it in their propulsion systems! Sorry, Bill webriggs@concentric.net briggs@XLNsystems.com >I lookup more info on Bismuth, and it is a low temp superconductor, esp. >in films. At room temp it has about the highest resistivity of any metal, >higher than nichrome or mercury. It also has a low specific heat and a >high magneto-resistive effect. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 15:38:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA12533; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:36:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:36:52 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 12:36:45 -1000 Subject: Re: Bismuth, was Magnetic susceptibility From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909031836.SM00137@[192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"88LJ02.0.k33.3s4qt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11726 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill Briggs wrote - > Element 115 has > yet to be discovered or created (by humans), but it is of interest because > of the story that Robert Lazar and others tell, namely that alien > spacecraft make use of it in their propulsion systems! That's odd. I just read reports that scientists have now hit 118 and 117, which quickly broke down into a more stable 116. The report didn't say how stable 116 was, and there was no mention of 115. Some time ago I had read that 114 was achieved. So there we are...now WHERE are we? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 18:44:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA02118; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 18:42:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 18:42:49 -0700 Message-ID: <37D07963.4B742933@microtec.net> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 21:44:03 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: STEVEN GIBBS ? References: <37CEB910.147390F1@verisoft.com.tr> <37CF400A.B25D6DFC@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aU7nH1.0._W.Pa7qt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11727 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Is there a steven gibbs on this list ? thanks. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 19:05:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA07583; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 19:03:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 19:03:29 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re: Bismuth, was Magnetic susceptibility Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 12:02:55 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <3.0.6.16.19990902205105.243f64d6@earthlink.net> <37CEB910.147390F1@verisoft.com.tr> <3.0.6.16.19990902205105.243f64d6@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990903082915.2d1ff526@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990903082915.2d1ff526@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA07522 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ohk5c1.0.Ks1.mt7qt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11728 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 03 Sep 1999 08:29:15, Dave Dameron wrote: [snip] >I lookup more info on Bismuth, and it is a low temp superconductor, esp. in >films. At room temp it has about the highest resistivity of any metal, >higher than nichrome or mercury. It also has a low specific heat and a high >magneto-resistive effect. >-Dave See also patent #4325795. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 22:01:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA14382; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:00:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:00:09 -0700 Message-ID: <37D0A75E.C2B66AD9@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 17:00:15 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: STEVEN GIBBS ? References: <37CEB910.147390F1@verisoft.com.tr> <37CF400A.B25D6DFC@ihug.co.nz> <37D07963.4B742933@microtec.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8wet3.0.dW3.OTAqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11729 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steven Gibbs is on the net (time travel claiment guy for those who don't know) but I'm not sure about the list. patrick tremblay wrote: > Hi, > > Is there a steven gibbs on this list ? > > thanks. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 22:16:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA17831; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:15:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:15:06 -0700 Message-ID: <37D0AA2D.A9291D95@mail.admiral.ru> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 09:12:14 +0400 From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Reply-To: frolov@mail.admiral.ru Organization: Home Lab X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Russian investor in water fuel car Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Kr78U.0.WM4.PhAqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11730 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, I need contacts with owner of patented technology in water fuel car for licence deal. Some private Russian company wish to develop topic for diesel transport modification (upgrade) to use water-oil mixture. Alexander V. Frolov -- http://www.time-machine.spb.ru ICQ 43757451 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 22:27:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA20456; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:26:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:26:24 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Neons Message-Id: <936422752.5192.644@excite.com> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 22:25:52 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.18 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"pWu7x3.0.X_4.0sAqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11731 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A mad scientists lab is not complete without a collection of neon or argon tubes, that respectively glow orange and blue when electrical high voltage discharge causes them to glow. Unlike the florescent counterpart that has a phospherescent coating inside the glass that produces the lighting effect, these two gas tubes allow one to see the actual plasma glow of an ionized gas. About a half a year ago or more I made a post about the fact that when I connected a neon bulb excited from a high frequency system of 60 hz coils to a post in the ground, the neon bulb would blink at a high rate; something I reckoned about 8-10 flashes/sec. When I connected this to the aluminum siding of the house the same effect was noted, which is presumed that the siding of the house is the same thing as ground. I then thought that I had a convincing demonstration about how the earth itself might be resonant to ANY high frequency, but then show itself as a modulation of conductance and non conductance in accordance with this 8-10 observed flashes per second. A pretty good looker of a theory, but it didnt hold up to facts. This neon bulb itself was broken by accident and when I made the same tests with a small florescent the blinking was abscent in most cases. In fact the neon will deliver different results in identical circumstances with a florescent. After this became apparent to this strawman, ( pardon my politics) I retracted this statement that I had a realistic test demonstration of earth resonance. Of cour4se others were also saying I was full of sheisse so I accepted this for value. In fact the 56 henry coils used in the 60 hz resonance scheme I have outlined can function the same way as a ballast or impedance transformer that will light a 15 watt florescent at an energy expediture of 1 watt, but the lighting is so dim that it is not visible in sunlight. Each of the 60 hz resonant coils from the system can also light these bulbs when they serve as the load between the coils and that of a mere alligator clip that touches the earth. A metal post should be better but that is the observation I have obtained by accidental or even deliberate shocking when I interposed my body as a ground and produced a lighted bulb from an extended hand. There is a definite difference between 60 hz that does shock, and a high frequency that does not. In the case of making a 60 hz resonant system into high frequency by addition of a small arc gap in the circuit the florescents will blink entirely in coordination with the actions of the arc gap. But that blinking seemed very chaotic to that compared of a neon that blinks. It is the arc gap that throws the system into high frequency. This then was supposed to be the sole cause of blinking lighting effects on these gaseous bulbs. Later on when I tested the neon without any exterior connection to ground, I discovered that the blinking still occurred on the bulb, therefore I reasoned that the blinking had nothing to do with ANY CONNECTION TO GROUND, but was merely a function of the oscillatory nature of the arc gap. Thus by eliminating the arc gap and making a direct connection, no high frequency occurs and a florescent connected in this circuit no longer blinks but exhibits a steady discharge of lighting according to its placement as a load in the 60 hz resonant circuit. The amazing fact in this regard is that when a neon is identically placed in the same circumstance of 60 hz resonance, and not high frequency, its discharge of lighting; STILL EXIBITS BLINKING. Some kind of internal plasma organization is occuring where conductivity and non- conductivity is occuring as a cycle, EXACTLY THE SAME PREMISE DEDUCED FROM A MISTAKEN HYPOTHESIS WHERE THE CONNECTION TO A EARTH GROUND WAS ASSUMED RESPONSIBLE FOR THESE EFFECTS! In fact after an enumeration of scientific facts, one should always assume the role of a Watson under Holmes, to discover if an elementary lapse of reasoning has occurred in the formation of an hypothesis. It is easy to be quoted out of hand, I am not talking about a conventional method of lighting neons by the use of neon sign transformers of thousands of volts. That is the conventional method. The method I am speaking of is to instead use huge inductors as a ballast and to use resonant rise of voltage instead of transformer method commonly employed. The neon discharge then appears to exhibit a state of self organization, which then leads me to the observation that these dielectric molecules in their random temperature actions as heat and light from the causitive potential of voltage then deliver the same action concurrent with the phenomenom known as the NUCLEAR SPIN RELAXATION CONSTANT. This has also been shown in water electrolysis patent 4,394,230 by the late Andrija Purarich in 1983 concerning water fracturing at tetrahedral resonances, concuring with the fact that a susceptibility factor of conduction, or in this case, shattering, does occur approximately in a cycle of 3 seconds, which the patent quotes as the HYDROGEN NUCLEAR SPIN RELAXATION CONSTANT. All of this info of course is leading up to the fact of testing. I have seen the Meyer water fracture patent, at the time I saw it, I wondered and observed that I am not full of nonscense or sheisse via Deutschland, but by the time I could travel to Columbus, Ohio ... the man was already dead of a brain aneurism, the same way my father died. With all the talk about people who know everything and speculate about constants, they do not realize that the constants are not constants. A particular resonant frequency that produces a resonant effect is in turn dependent on the vessel that it resonates in, in which size is a consideration. Because a certain size model is common or in vogue among experimenters, a completely wrong assumption is made by others whom assume that everything can be made according to that particular frequency. So now we have wild eyed assumptions and smears of the truth such as: 42.8 kilocycles... or was that 21,000 hz... Geez anyways the Keely reports were all wrong, They missed a decimal point by ten fold, the real frequency should be arround 2100 hz!This is the magical precession frequency of hydrogen???? Puleeze, where is Jerry Decker when he needs to speak, of course he wont because of arguments that exiled him from this list, but Im sure he reads it once in a while. The Keely Hypothesis is based on sound frequencies, the puharich resonator only resonates at 600 hz because the cell has that particular size and dielectric constant in according to the solid state instrument that resonates it accordingly. THERE IS NO MAGICAL FREQUENCY. The magic is made in the inventors mind when he matches the world to the model and delivers coherance. Anyways enough said, I will continue with the work of a simple resonator at 32,000 hz, which will only use 4 components, and no solid state components. The testing at 48,200 hz is now seen to be an obstacle, and probably cannot be done without modifications, and the whole effort seems unobtainable in this method, which of course does not employ acoustics as the original Keely claim does, which of course then decrees the effort to be a probable waste of time and effort. Nevertheless a birthday makes one work for the future. The future is always open for new possibilities. I do not think that things will explode or blow up or wires will melt, although I remember exploding light bulbs. But I cannot recall how such a person as the esteemed Bill Beaty readily becomes enamored on free energy? He is supposed to be the bastion of common sense. I guess we all have our weaknesses; Enjoy your vacation Bill. Sincerly HDN Beaty became so radical and will be seen as a success or failure depending whether the idea is feasible and workable and will be noted on 9/7/99. HDN ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 00:55:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA11572; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 00:53:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 00:53:38 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: frolov@mail.admiral.ru, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Russian investor in water fuel car Message-Id: <936431585.11375.836@excite.com> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 00:53:05 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.55 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"KCh7v3.0.fq2.10Dqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11732 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 04 Sep 1999 09:12:14 +0400, Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > Hello, > > I need contacts with owner of patented technology in water fuel car for > licence deal. Some private Russian company wish to develop topic for > diesel transport modification (upgrade) to use water-oil mixture. > > Alexander V. Frolov > Dear Mr.Vladimirovich, as you should know a patent is nothing more than a liscense to steal. You especially should know that such a thing does not exist. Your preconception of business does not fit the real world. The real world works from neccessity which is the mother of invention. Many years ago I was gullible enough to invest in water vaporization technology in carburation. For $ 500.00 US currency I got to be a partner for 3 months, but I got a ride in the car that used 30% water and went ping, ping, knock .knock. How wonderfull? As a matter of fact that was in Bellfontaine, Ohio. His name was Fred Mahoney from Pittsburg, Pennsylvania.. His factory tour did not mention the 55 gallon drum filled with scrap manifolds that did not work. However he did spend enough money to get a patent, which of course meant he bought his liscense to steal. There is no pie in the sky magic solution as some people believe. This is from the school of hard knocks. It is practically ludicrous to suggest that a Russian Corporation exists willing to pay liscense rights with monetary funds already subverted to such a scale that the money, or the transmission of a utililty in the form of currency, which has already been devalued to the utmost extent as possible by the imperialist capitalist running dogs to ruin the country of Russia; this request is highly unusual. Now if you were instead to say you had a political cause to end currency speculation, and to end the repression of your country by the lenders of monetary debt at unreasonably high costs, everyone in the world would prick an ear up and listen to you. Recently you voiced an opinion that the KGB was interfering with your website. Now you are afraid of your government? In the USA thousands of citizens have begun filings to their government to indicate that the bonds issued upon their birth certificates, which was traded as a revenue raising method similar to Savings Bonds, be placed back into the original venue of payment whereby all taxes and fines paid by the individual should then be credited against the note of borrowed sums. Unfortunately this amount of funds of taxation and fines only amounts to about 10% that the government borrowed on the basis of the average productivity of all individuals combined as an average. As such the methods of monetary collection have now entailed insiduous means whereby now the citizens are jailed, fined, and then given another bill for the time of rent when the citizen were in jail! There aint no USA, no France, no Britain, no Deutschland, no Russia, no Tibet: all these countries are in submission to a higher authority of debt collection. The countries are an illusion. And what you have submitted is also the same illusion. There is no corporation in Russia, if there is they are agents of the same debt collection process. That is my belief and I stand behind it with a gun. I have sorrow about the hundreds of thousands that perished in Leningrad in WWII and the episodes in history that have occurred since then. I was not born in those geographical areas where perhaps many of the family I may now know were extinguished. That is a hard thing to swallow. For me I understand the consciencious thing to do is not to put my head under a pillow and pretend it never happened.. Some people have to be born with a gun in their hands, and ready to use it. I am done with my political commentary, but you should realize that politics enters religion: is most ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 01:30:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA15302; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 01:28:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 01:28:28 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: frolov@mail.admiral.ru, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Russian investor in water fuel car Message-Id: <936433703.22631.154@excite.com> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 01:28:23 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.55 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"cHAPY.0._k3.iWDqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11733 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 04 Sep 1999 09:12:14 +0400, Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > Hello, > > I need contacts with owner of patented technology in water fuel car for > licence deal. Some private Russian company wish to develop topic for > diesel transport modification (upgrade) to use water-oil mixture. > > Alexander V. Frolov > Sorry Alex M. Already replied but new world order cut it off. When they seen it was impermissible it was quickly censored. Their is no such delivery, or liscense to subvert the currency of an entire country for monetary gain. There is no such Russian Corporation. A patent is nothing but a permission to steal. There is no need to repeat the lengthy discourse that would automatically be wiped again. There are no governments of the people, only debt expenditures mortgaged on birth certificates. I am glad to have got this far without further censorship. HDN: not even conveying a small gist of what was said before. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 05:15:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA02389; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 05:14:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 05:14:07 -0700 Message-ID: <37D10CF4.7012F97@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 05:13:40 -0700 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: frolov@mail.admiral.ru CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Russian investor in water fuel car References: <37D0AA2D.A9291D95@mail.admiral.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ioZ8u2.0.9b.FqGqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11734 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "Alexander V. Frolov" wrote: > Hello, > > I need contacts with owner of patented technology in water fuel car for > licence deal. Some private Russian company wish to develop topic for > diesel transport modification (upgrade) to use water-oil mixture. > > Alexander V. Frolov > > -- > http://www.time-machine.spb.ru > ICQ 43757451 Dr. Frolov- The chap you need to contact is Rudolf W. Gunnerman, he owns the US patents on the emulsion fuel formula known as "A55", I attach a hyperlink to a list of the various fuel patents (courtest of Geoff's website 'Solaris') to this communique for your reading pleasure: http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/fuelpat.html And here is a link to the Gunnerman patent via the USPTO server: http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='5156114'.WKU.&OS=PN/5156114&RS=PN/5156114 Please to excuse Harvey, he's been breathing too much ozone from the sparkgap! :) Best Wishes, Erik From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 09:38:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA12730; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:36:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:36:46 -0700 Message-ID: <000701bef6f3$f3c4cf40$fdaafea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: "Free Energy" Subject: New TMB Info Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:38:09 -0500 Organization: atgroup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"3jsJA.0.o63.UgKqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11735 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/tmb.htm We are narrowing in on what is causing the power production. Ron. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 10:47:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA28495; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:45:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:45:38 -0700 Message-ID: <000701bef6fd$92fc0020$092efea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: "Free Energy" Subject: TMB Kit Available Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 12:47:29 -0500 Organization: atgroup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"hqpzu.0.8z6.2hLqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11736 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/tmb.htm A TMB kit is now available. The cost is for parts alone, no profit and no rip-off. Ron. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 11:17:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA02367; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:16:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:16:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990904142000.00b285b0@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 14:20:00 -0700 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: EST. The power storage breakthrough. Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"A-vHw2.0.ra.g7Mqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11737 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To All, I realize that some of us are already aware of this, but I believe that it is important enough to bear a repeat. The power-to-weight ratio of the EST stable plasma totally blows away all existing fuel or energy storage devices by several orders of magnitude. It can be safely used in houses, cars, planes, and for interplanetary and interstellar craft. (Maybe even for fusion?) It potentially stores 10^11 Joules (!) within a containment vessel weighing 94 Kg. The exhaust gases (non-combustion) from heating: Isp = 1.43 x 10^5 sec! The electron spiral toroid device (EST): A spiral of paired electrons rotating in a stabilized toroid configuration. Energy can be added by continuously pumping it with microwave energy. So far, there has been no indication of limiting factors. The leakage is small, and the EST configuration is reported as stable. The manufacturing technique is proprietary, but in spite of that, several large corporations are now directly funding Clint Seward of Electron Power Systems, Inc. They are now building large units. The cash strapped NASA Institute for Advanced Concepts is also funding. . A 26 page (pdf) description [and story] is a 'must read' for anyone attempting replication: Clint Seward Electron Power Systems, Inc. "Low-Cost Space Transportation Using Electron Spiral Toroid (EST) Propulsion" There was research of plasma toroids during the 1980's within a Star Wars type of electromagnetic accelerator The shape may have been the only thing in common, although some folks might consider the EST as a spin-off. And for those of you who enjoy slugging though IBM's patent images and their iffy downloads-- 3 Seward patents: http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05175466__ http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05589727__ http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05773919__ If anyone wishes to attempt it, a good place to start might be the Ball Lightning Experiments using a kitchen microwave oven-- Bill Beaty's Site: Best Colin Quinney From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 13:12:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA23416; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:10:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:10:43 -0700 Message-ID: <37D16EB7.C166E171@datacomm.ch> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 21:10:47 +0200 From: Felix Meyer Organization: hb9abx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TMB Kit Available References: <000701bef6fd$92fc0020$092efea9@fs11> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mRfoG3.0.ij5.3pNqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11738 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: atg0317 schrieb: > > See http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/tmb.htm > > A TMB kit is now available. The cost is for parts alone, no profit and no > rip-off. > > Ron. This page is not loading correctly. Dont know what is wrong Felix From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 13:21:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA26127; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:19:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:19:37 -0700 Message-ID: <000901bef713$156914c0$f766fea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: References: <000701bef6fd$92fc0020$092efea9@fs11> <37D16EB7.C166E171@datacomm.ch> Subject: Re: TMB Kit Available Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 15:21:33 -0500 Organization: atgroup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"OwXv1.0.8O6.PxNqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11739 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From: Felix Meyer To: Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 2:10 PM Subject: Re: TMB Kit Available > > > atg0317 schrieb: > > > > See http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/tmb.htm > > > > A TMB kit is now available. The cost is for parts alone, no profit and no > > rip-off. > > > > Ron. > > This page is not loading correctly. > Dont know what is wrong > > Felix > Thanks for the info, although we did check it and it appears to be working. We have had 39 viewers in the last three hours. Maybe try again, you could have hit it when we were working on it. Please let me know if you continue to have problems. Ron. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 14:36:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA06759; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 14:35:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 14:35:09 -0700 From: MATTIARO@aol.com Message-ID: <983b5f9b.2502ea6a@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 17:34:34 EDT Subject: Re: TMB Kit Available To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"B6Z9w.0.Wf1.C2Pqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11740 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To all. The page: http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/tmb.htm loaded properly for me. Sat. Sept. 4 99 @ 1430 PDST. Matti From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 16:18:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA24196; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 16:16:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 16:16:37 -0700 From: Pepthewep@aol.com Message-ID: <2f66ecb2.25030226@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 19:15:50 EDT Subject: Re: STEVEN GIBBS ? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Resent-Message-ID: <"CCpzK3.0.zv5.LXQqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11741 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John, Steven Gibbs is a time traveler? Is that what you meant? I'm new to this list so, please share with me the different kinds of people that are part of this group. I am terribly interested in wormholes and black & white holes. The possibility of inter-dimentional travel is fascinating. What is your interest? Are you familiar with the names Joe Firmage, Jean-Louis Naudin, Fred Epps or William J. Beaty? Hope to hear from you. Barb c. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 20:33:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA04211; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 20:31:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 20:31:45 -0700 (PDT) From: dtmiller@nevia.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TMB Kit Available Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 03:28:28 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@nevia.net Message-ID: <37d8e342.192381485@mail.midiowa.net> References: <983b5f9b.2502ea6a@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <983b5f9b.2502ea6a@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id UAA04189 Resent-Message-ID: <"Aeiy83.0.g11.VGUqt"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11742 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Matti, On Sat, 4 Sep 1999 17:34:34 EDT, MATTIARO@aol.com wrote: >http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/tmb.htm Normally, I can click on the URL in a message and Netscape will load the page. For this one, that didn't work. So I copy/pasted the URL from the message into Netscape and it loaded. There must be a funny character (non-display) after the URL in the message that prevents direct loading (I'm lazy and didn't look). -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 22:14:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA14131; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:12:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:12:58 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-4-dyn37.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.102.74.100] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:12:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <017201bef75c$9ca89b60$644a66d1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: STEVEN GIBBS ? Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:07:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"DyXR.0.iS3.QlVqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11743 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Are you familiar with the names Joe Firmage, Jean-Louis >Naudin, Fred Epps or William J. Beaty? > Hope to hear from you. Barb c. I am honored to be placed in such august company :-) I wish I could build like Jean-louis, or burn fire of genius like Bill Beaty.. But I especially I wish I had Joe Firmage's money :-) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 01:12:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA07367; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 01:10:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 01:10:29 -0700 Message-ID: <37D22579.BD38326C@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 20:10:33 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: STEVEN GIBBS ? References: <2f66ecb2.25030226@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3VtPh.0.xo1.rLYqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11744 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Pepthewep@aol.com wrote: > John, Steven Gibbs is a time traveler? He claims to be. (I don't have any good reason to doubt him, but I'm a bit skeptical of the subject in general) http://home.inreach.com/dov/tt.htm You can buy a time machine from him (I must lead a strange life as that's three places I know of where you can buy them, and I know one person who claims to have experienced it) > Is that what you meant? Yep > I'm new to > this list so, please share with me the different kinds of people that are > part of this group. I am terribly interested in wormholes and black & white > holes. The possibility of inter-dimentional travel is fascinating. What is > your interest? Are you familiar with the names Joe Firmage Yes > , Jean-Louis Naudin Definitely > , Fred Epps Absolutely > William J. Beaty Of course > ? > Hope to hear from you. I'd expect it. > Barb c. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 06:06:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA32068; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 06:05:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 06:05:08 -0700 From: Pepthewep@aol.com Message-ID: <20896fd0.2503c463@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 09:04:35 EDT Subject: Re: STEVEN GIBBS ? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Resent-Message-ID: <"jgJby3.0.zq7.4gcqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11745 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: OK, Wiseguy!! I'm not really a nutcase...just curious about the strange & unusual...and this stuff IS strange & unusual, you must admit! My interest is more on the astronomical side...wormholes and such. Things just seemed to lead me into strange areas...well, like meeting you, for instance. Although you sometimes find truth in odd places. I guess I'm just trying to determine what is truth and what is just plain odd! Somehow, I stumbled across these papers where, these scientists I mentioned earlier, were talking about experiments they were doing concerning electrical activity and "points" they had found in the atmosphere of their home which seemed to be openings in the fabric of our dimension (so to speak). Well now, THAT IS INTERESTING!! The question is: what is YOUR opinion, John, of this idea? Remember, I'm looking for truth, not fanciful dreams of possibilities. Barb From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 06:27:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02226; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 06:25:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 06:25:46 -0700 From: Pepthewep@aol.com Message-ID: <152b9271.2503c93a@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 09:25:14 EDT Subject: Re: STEVEN GIBBS ? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Resent-Message-ID: <"13dBs3.0.hY.Pzcqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11746 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ah, so YOU are the Fred Epps I've been reading about! Would you mind explaining what you were doing (if it WAS you) when writing about some sort of experimentation you and the other gentlemen were conducting concerning "points" in our atmosphere which sounded like "wormholes"? Do you need me to refresh your memory? What, exactly, is Bismuth? (not to change the subject) Barb c. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 13:59:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA20951; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 13:55:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 13:55:57 -0700 Message-ID: <37D2D8D9.38CF74FD@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 13:55:54 -0700 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: STEVEN GIBBS ? References: <2f66ecb2.25030226@aol.com> <37D22579.BD38326C@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_khPa1.0.G75.SZjqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11750 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Berry wrote: > Pepthewep@aol.com wrote: > > > John, Steven Gibbs is a time traveler? > > He claims to be. (I don't have any good reason to doubt him, but I'm a bit > skeptical of the subject in general) > http://home.inreach.com/dov/tt.htm > You can buy a time machine from him (I must lead a strange life as that's three > places I know of where you can buy them, and I know one person who claims to > have experienced it) Hyper Dimensional Resonator ?? Uhhh..John you do realize that the entire subject of "radionics" is completely outside the domain of even Weird Science? Honestly, $360 for a "Time Machine"?? Do you really believe that??? If he's sold 20 of these things and they actually worked, we'd be up to our hip- pockets in temporal paradoxes by now! I'm afrad that I have to side with Jerry Decker on this whole bag of snakes...such claims require PROOF. As an aside, since this kludge plugs into a wall socket...isnt he required to get a UL certification?? -Erik From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 08:43:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA01575 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:43:31 -0700 Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:43:31 -0700 X-Envelope-From: herman@college.antioch-college.edu Sat Sep 4 08:43:28 1999 Received: from college.antioch-college.edu (antioch-college.edu [192.131.123.11]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA01546; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:43:28 -0700 Received: from localhost (herman@localhost) by college.antioch-college.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA13479; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:47:51 -0400 (EDT) Old-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:47:51 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l cc: freenrg-l , William Beaty Subject: Common sense Sparks are flying!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: Dear Folks, See notes, commenta and so on. I am one of the first in line to want to see UE, Unexpected Energy. I also caution against contusions from leaping at conclusions, mixing grapefruits and pawl retractors, "text out of context" ... and so on.... SO: I look at some of these things, below, and am grateful to Bill for getting a lot of different things all together in one place... On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: > All, > > Maybe I'm a little dense, but, I keep coming back to a common thread in > many of these OU devices, the spark. I've brought this up before but it > didn't go anywhere. > > But recently: > Stephan Hartmann in his inquires about spark gap oxidation > generated electricity (back spikes). Q: How does oxidation "generate" electricity? Q: Are we saying Back EMF is the resuly of oxidation ??? Please elucidate. ---------------- Note: The term BBGB means "Blow-By-Grinding-Blow" .... or... say it to us in really simple terms, define any new things. Example: If you say electrons get from here to there because of the new "rubber band and ping pong ball theory-model" ... then tell us what this IS..... or if electron motion is due to "resonant doppler compression effects" ...then tell us what THAT is... or is the electron motion is due to "McCready's Rear Action" .... then tell us what THAT is PLEASE !!!!! ______________________________________________________ > And, Henry Curtis's note about Santilli's work. Q: > BBGB ..... What is-are the note and work, please? ______________________ > So I thought I'd give it another try. > > We have the two ideas presented ____________________ > > 1) Stephan Hartmann's idea about a simple chemical reaction going on in the > spark gap that has as a by-product some extra electrons. > Can we have a little BBGB on how this is? _____________________ > 2) In Santilli's data oxygen is combining with several different low > molecular weight elements including carbon to form higher atomic weight > elements with the liberation of energy in commercial quantities. > How does this work?? _______________________________ > Let me add 3 more off the wall conjectures. > > 3) Remember when Stephan brought up the subject of air entrainment when he > blew into a tube with a 1 inch gap between his mouth and the tube, how he > got significantly more air volume than when his mouth was directly against > the end of the tube. Does it sort of seem self evident you get maybe a better air flow with a seal... as opposed to a 1 inch gap??? Q: Did Stepahn say more on the matter? Is this taken out of context?? ______________________________________________________ Couldn't something similar be going on with electrons > in a spark gap. Maybe as the spark jumps the gap through the air it is > entraining excess atmospheric electrons/ions to add too the expected amount > of flow. (Yah, I know it's kind of a stretch, but what the hey!) > Can you please let us know in a little more detail what you are observing? Is there a tube here? Why and where is there a gap? ______________________________- > Question: Has anyone tried to replicate this in a sealed environment, so > that at some point any excess atmospheric electrons would become depleted? > ++++++++++ NOTE: If you read up on arcs and sparks and spark gaps you will find at least a few areas where considerable work has been done. You will NOT, in most cases, find useful material in databases, search engines and-or WWW a] gaps and their use as RF generators b] and as interruptions in heavy power switching c] driving induction heaters > 4) A spark gap could be considered at different moments a capacitor & a > resistor. A capacitor in that two conductive surfaces separated by a > dielectric (air) with one side connected to a charge, and the other to > ground (or whatever). A resistor in that it conducts electricity from one > point to another converting some electrons into other forms of energy in > the transfer (heat, light). I've even seen it referred to as negative > resistance? > NOTE: First you should read a whole bunch. AND: In general the spark-arc is treated as a plasma and can exhibit negative resistance effects. AND: Negative resistance does NOT mean free energy, or "super conductor like" ... is is taken to mean as a non linear electronic effect. READ ABOUT: Non linear circuit elements, neon and other glow tubes, voltage regulator vacuum tubes, tunnel diodes AND THEN AFTER you have read all that.... you will start to get an idea. It is complex, not well understood and a great deal of fun! -----_____________________ > Consider, in a commutator type spark gap you have two plates in proximity > to each other, one with a charge. As the commutator turns these plates are > pulled apart in distance thus converting mechanical energy into electrical. SAY WHAT ???? > Thus momentarily the charged plate has more energy than it was initially > given (back spike?). HOW IS THIS??? Then as the charge grows from being stretched it > reaches a critical level where the dielectric properties of the air fail > and the charge jumps across as a spark. > How doea "charge Grow" from being "stretched"??? > Consider also that the spark forms as the conductors are pulled apart, not > so much as when the conductors are brought together as the resistance of > the dielectric decreases. Perhaps the reverse would apply, as the plates > of a capacitor get closer the charge decreases. The attraction of opposite > charges pull the plates closer converting electrical energy into mechanical > energy. We all better read about arcs and sparks before this goes much further.... Something is seriously skewed here... > > Thus Newman's battery provides the initial charge, then the mechanical > energy of the commutator is converted to electricity and fed back to the > battery. Now you have added a huge inductor and other elements.... these had best be WELL defined before and BBGB is attempted. I think this may also apply to Zaev's system. This would not > apply to a fixed gap spark plug type situation. (Yah, I know this is also > a stretch {pun intended ;^} ) > > Question: Has the energy involved in turning the commutator been properly > accounted for in the overall system? > > And last, in the off the wall category..... > > 5) Tom Bearden's papers indicate that any capacitor is a ZPE gateway, the > problem is getting it to stay open to a ZPE energy flow. There may be a > connection here. If the commutator spark gap can be considered a > capacitor, perhaps during the dynamics of the changing capacitive > conductive values involved, the conditions are momentarily right to allow > a brief ZPE energy flow to add to the energy of the system. > First define all of the electrical elements. Then ask: Has anyone ever produced a BBGB description of T. Beardon's work.. any part... that operates as hardball, nuts and bolts, belt and suspenders engineering?? > > Comments please.... Finally: Don't get me wrong..... DO READ ... and become familiar with the terms and effects in the open literature ... at the very least. > > Bill > webriggs@concentric.net > briggs@XLNsystems.com > > DISCLAIMER - Any flaky hair brained ideas presented are my own, > and not the flaky hair brained ideas of my employer. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 06:48:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA06192; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 06:46:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 06:46:53 -0700 Message-ID: <37D27451.1262D9B6@ihug.co.nz> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 01:46:58 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: STEVEN GIBBS ? References: <20896fd0.2503c463@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sNbb31.0.fW1.CHdqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11747 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well I understand what you mean, it does sound quite unbelievable. I can tell you that I knew of the experiments with pyramids and points before they became public knowledge. I know the people involved and do not believe they would lie, I believe them to be of relatively sound mind. (Fred, you kind of through the whole thing off ;) But seriously I do believe the source even though I sometimes find it unbelievable. I tried the pyramid & point experiment and had no results, but results depend on the pyramid, the point and when it is placed there, The person conducting the experiment is undoubtedly linked also. I think this one is both true and odd, Researching it from the point of view of a wormhole is quite interesting. The problem is that time is such a complex thing, It is hard to really understand all the in's and out's of it when you start playing around. Also time travel if really real should not become public domain, the problems of everyone zipping though time gives me a headache. So I'm afraid I can't really solve your problem, All I can say is that there is enough reason to believe that it could be real to make this normally clear mind rather foggy over the "tricky" bits of it all, It is a field where even if you succeed you might doubt yourself. I think that it is probably real, I have no doubt it is real in some manner or another, but I sometimes wonder if the past is just echo's of the past, the the future just the projections. So I guess for me the question is "Is it REAL? Or just ghosts of what was" I could continue on longer giving evidence that it is just that (echo's) but I think I'll end it here. Basically you just have to decide yourself after researching and weighing all evidence fairly, You may like me remain undecided. John Berry Pepthewep@aol.com wrote: > OK, Wiseguy!! I'm not really a nutcase...just curious about the strange & > unusual...and this stuff IS strange & unusual, you must admit! My interest > is more on the astronomical side...wormholes and such. Things just seemed to > lead me into strange areas...well, like meeting you, for instance. Although > you sometimes find truth in odd places. I guess I'm just trying to determine > what is truth and what is just plain odd! Somehow, I > > stumbled across these papers where, these scientists I mentioned earlier, > were talking about experiments they were doing concerning electrical activity > and "points" they had found in the atmosphere of their home which seemed to > be openings in the fabric of our dimension (so to speak). Well now, THAT IS > INTERESTING!! The question is: what is YOUR opinion, John, of this idea? > Remember, I'm looking for truth, not fanciful dreams of possibilities. Barb From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 07:10:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA10105; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 07:09:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 07:09:25 -0700 Message-ID: <37D2799B.7BC0307@ihug.co.nz> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 02:09:32 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: STEVEN GIBBS ? References: <152b9271.2503c93a@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rjOFg3.0.dT2.Kcdqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11748 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'll be rude and butt in, Yes that is the same Fred Epps. Bismuth BTW is an element, It is quite heavy and diamagnetic. when in a magnetic field it tries to cancel the field, it aligns in the opposite direction of the magnetic field. It is one of the most (if not the most) diamagnetic material. I just received an email that seems to indicate gold is more diamagnetic, but I'm unsure. Even though it is very diamagnetic as far as elements go the actual effect is not very large but useful. Bismuth has a history of being used in many devices that have anomalous functions such as antigravity free energy and room temperature superconductivity. (oddly enough so does carbon which seems to be quite diamagnetic on occasion) http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/key/Bi.html In case you didn't know, Bill Beaty runs this (and other) email lists, and Jean Louis Naudin has a webpage filled with the many experiments he has conducted: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm John Berry Pepthewep@aol.com wrote: > Ah, so YOU are the Fred Epps I've been reading about! Would you mind > explaining what you were doing (if it WAS you) when writing about some sort > of experimentation you and the other gentlemen were conducting concerning > "points" in our atmosphere which sounded like "wormholes"? Do you need me to > refresh your memory? > What, exactly, is Bismuth? (not to change the subject) Barb c. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 10:54:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA16419; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 10:52:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 10:52:53 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-4-dyn40.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.102.74.103] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 10:52:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00b601bef7c6$bea19b80$674a66d1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: STEVEN GIBBS ? Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 10:47:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"_G4iP2.0.S04.qtgqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11749 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Barb, >Ah, so YOU are the Fred Epps I've been reading about! Would you mind >explaining what you were doing (if it WAS you) when writing about some sort >of experimentation you and the other gentlemen were conducting concerning >"points" in our atmosphere which sounded like "wormholes"? Do you need me to >refresh your memory? Hardly :-) But I didn't actually do the experiment (I am incredibly lazy and clutzy), just designed it based on vague hunches and the Seth books of Jane Roberts, as the article says. Bill Beaty was informed of the experiment and put the page on his site, but he cannot be held responsible for it in any way, good or bad :-) For those who haven't seen it the article is at http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/pyrexp1.html Jean-louis did some preliminary tests for me on whether pyramid shapes could affect the time rate of atomic clocks. These tests were inconclusive. He may not want to be associated with this area of research as he always thought it was a bit on the far out side, not a safe subject like antigravity :-) As John has said, two people in widely separated parts of the world did this experiment and both had large time alterations and other unusual effects. Since neither one of the testers wanted to go public for various reasons, and I wanted to release the experimental data-- as fragmentary as they were-- because of their inherent interest, I made the perhaps ill-considered decision to release the data without giving names, and of course without being able to back it up in any way. It was first released on a private list where I was subjected to rather caustic through well-founded criticism, and I grew tired of the whole subject and gave up talking about it. The experiment itself is easy to set up but finding the location to do it is quite a bit harder. I don't think every vortex point is suitable, as John's unsuccessful replication would indicate. In addition there are many uncontrolled variables that may be of an astronomical nature. For instance I believe that the effects are strongest about 2 days after the full moon, when the moon passes through the magnetospheric envelope of the earh and perturbs the geomagnetic and schumann resonances, which are linked to human brain wave patterns, and thus possibly the psychological experience of time. The effects are still going on at one experimenter's house and he is making some attempts to track and record them, but not for public display, as is his choice. The other experimenter destroyed his test setup because of the dangerous effects that were occuring. These tests are by no means safe. I prefer not to argue the reality of these effects with those who are not willing to take my protocol and replicate it. In addition I don't want to fill up the list with this discussion because at the moment I truly am more interested in getting a working free energy device going, and believe that Bill B is (almost :-) on the right track. Anybody who seriously wants to do a replication can contact me privately and I will be glad to help them with the setup. I hope this answers your questions, Barb, and I hope you pursue this area further. White holes and black holes are in your house right now, if you want to take the trouble to find them :-) They don't fit the current theories of physicists, but then again, nature never does. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 14:50:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA32553; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 14:47:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 14:47:09 -0700 From: Pepthewep@aol.com Message-ID: <6d639f02.25043ea4@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 17:46:12 EDT Subject: Re: STEVEN GIBBS ? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Resent-Message-ID: <"p5Hrk2.0.Yy7.SJkqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11751 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 09/05/1999 2:10:58 PM !!!First Boot!!!, antigrav@ihug.co.nz writes: << http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm >> Could NOT get this webpage...said it didn't exist anymore. Barb c. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 15:19:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA04837; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 15:18:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 15:18:15 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01bef7ed$548eb120$fde5869f@vector> From: "Trev" To: References: <6d639f02.25043ea4@aol.com> Subject: Re: STEVEN GIBBS ? Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:23:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"Dz6qv3.0.QB1.dmkqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11752 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Works fine for me. > > << http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm >> > Could NOT get this webpage...said it didn't exist anymore. Barb c. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 15:38:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA08637; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 15:35:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 15:35:03 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990904184807.008f3c70@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 18:48:09 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re: STEVEN GIBBS ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"tmWaf1.0.s62.N0lqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11753 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:46 PM 9/5/99 EDT, you wrote: >Huge snip of Steve Gibbs. Wow, just went to this guy's site. I liked the claim about the quartz watch... >You know, quartz watches will actually confirm how far you've jumped. This is >confirmed in an >experiment that I conducted where I went one day physically into Earth's future. >I thought I went physically one day into Earth's future because my >quartz watch indicated that it was a day ahead. After I woke up that morning I >thought that there was something wrong with my quartz watch and then >about three hours later it switched back to the previous date. Now if given a choice between the baroque and the practical which would you choose? I kind of wonder what Bruce Perrault would say about this... Calling Bruce! Come in Bruce! Comments? >He went by the name of Jim Gerrard. Now he claimed that he >got his information from a guy who went by the name of Bruce Perrault. Grey >Barker put out various books years ago on the Philadelphia >Experiment. Some of Bruce Perrault's letters appeared in [them]. Especially >with one manual titled Across the Dimensional Barrier or something like >that. You could write to Bruce Perrault and he could give you a schematic for >what was supposedly a simplified version of the Philadelphia >Experiment. And basically the circuit is a simplified version of what they >used on board the Eldridge ship. This bit tickled me. >You know that clicking noise that you hear when someone >dials a phone on another extension? Well nobody was in the house and they all >went off at once. And then all of a sudden all the phones started >ringing at once. phones do indeed ring all at once... I guess I missed the earlier stuff; what brought this up as a topic of discussion? K. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 15:50:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA11813; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 15:50:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 15:50:26 -0700 From: Pepthewep@aol.com Message-ID: <31415a1a.25044d9f@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 18:50:07 EDT Subject: Re: STEVEN GIBBS ? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Resent-Message-ID: <"EKa4B3.0.Qu2.oElqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11754 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 09/05/1999 10:19:47 PM !!!First Boot!!!, trevcox@tinet.ie writes: << http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm >> I got it this time! Barb c. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 16:30:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA18972; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:30:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:30:13 -0700 Message-ID: <19990905232942.33982.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.254.227.170] From: "Timothy Flytcher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Hay Barb c. Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 16:29:41 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"4lHkA3.0.Ae4.5qlqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11755 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sometimes it seems we are dealing with never never land... some times they work and some time they don't??? (just like the US mail) I once sent an e-mail to a friend ... she got it three months latter!!! could someone...anyone, please explain where it was floating for THREE months???? >Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 18:50:07 EDT > >In a message dated 09/05/1999 10:19:47 PM !!!First Boot!!!, >trevcox@tinet.ie >writes: > ><< http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm >> >I got it this time! Barb c. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 16:35:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA19929; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:32:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:32:51 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-4-dyn27.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.102.74.90] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:32:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <014001bef7f6$3d838ec0$674a66d1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: STEVEN GIBBS ? Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:24:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ysrzD3.0.It4.Zslqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11756 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Erik and all, > >Hyper Dimensional Resonator ?? Uhhh..John you do realize that the entire subject >of "radionics" is completely outside the domain of even Weird Science? You can't assume that other members of this list feel the way you do, as your statement implies. Radionics has a long and venerable experimental tradition. It is part of our list charter under " Psi phenomena and Paranormal". On top of everything else, it works---at least sometimes. I have no opinion on the claims of Mr Gibbs. I have not seen evidence either way. The fact that he uses radionics does not justify his dismissal. And by the way, most of the scientific world would put us all in the butterfly net for even discussing most of the subjects on this list. Maybe they are right. Maybe we are all already crazy and don't know it. But somehow I don't think so... Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 18:02:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA02789; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 18:02:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 18:02:16 -0700 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAuAhUAxlxiAGkqtRP6N8z4TgsQJ0l1g8cCFQC2lMGedqT0D4EUcBvTzKKwDs2sdQ== From: djg77@webtv.net (D. Garrett) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 18:02:14 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: joe newman is at it again Message-ID: <2324-37D31296-13207@postoffice-622.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"YBF42.0.Uh.NAnqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11757 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: what are the 3 questions he won't answer? TIA George Burns was God. i'm just Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 19:26:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA20014; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:26:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:26:34 -0700 Message-ID: <37D32803.37198144@erie.net> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 22:33:39 -0400 From: Norm Biss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: joe newman is at it again Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B3B312201131051901B787FB" Resent-Message-ID: <"H3dIG.0.Yu4.PPoqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11758 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B3B312201131051901B787FB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit D.Garrett posted the following query: what are the 3 questions he won't answer? TIA George Burns was God. i'm just Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- About three weeks ago, I posed the following questions to a couple of other lists. It is a list of 5 questions he cannot come forth and answer. To publicly do so will ruin any attempt at establishing even a modicum of credibility. Regards, Norm Biss --------------B3B312201131051901B787FB Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from onelist.com (pop.onelist.com [209.207.135.253]) by moose.erie.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA02444 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 11:45:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 29282 invoked by alias); 15 Aug 1999 15:45:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 29224 invoked from network); 15 Aug 1999 15:45:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moose.erie.net) (208.138.204.11) by pop.onelist.com with SMTP; 15 Aug 1999 15:45:12 -0000 Received: from erie.net (pm5-5.erie.net [208.166.66.161]) by moose.erie.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA02396; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 11:45:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37B6E21B.6B451F9@erie.net> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 11:51:55 -0400 From: Norm Biss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en To: "FE-OU-FraudVictims@onelist.com" , "free_energy@onelist.com" Mailing-List: list FE-OU-FraudVictims@onelist.com; contact FE-OU-FraudVictims-owner@onelist.com Delivered-To: mailing list FE-OU-FraudVictims@onelist.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------5268DC81A08029800C28255D" Subject: [FE-OU-FraudVictims] Questions Newman REFUSES to answer X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 --------------5268DC81A08029800C28255D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Everyone, If anyone were to assume that Joe Newman's "Energy Machine" will do as he claims, then they should expect Mr. Newman to gladly and truthfully answer the following questions: 1 - Knowing that it requires an RPM of 3600 to power a Generator for auxilliary power, as a back-up to "Grid" power, why doesn't Joe Newman run his prototype at 3600 RPM ? Joe runs his motor at 50 or 100 RPM. 2 - Why doesn't he reveal the amount of voltage required to power his motor for the average home ? Dr. Roger Hastings (Whom Joe quotes when it suits his purpose) has stated that it would require between 10KV and 20KV to run Joe' motor in the average home. 3 - Joe Newman refuses to answer questions concerning approval by UL and NEC (Underwriter Laboratorys) and (National Electric Code). Anything that is manufactured and is to be connected to any type of dwelling MUST meet the following National Standards: NFPA 70, 1999 edition, National Electric Code. Standard Building Code (Latest Edition). NFPA 101 Life Safety. NFPA 850 Power Plants (As applicable). Underwriters Laboratorys. Factory Mutual (As an insurance issuer, Factory Mutual set guidelines for the entire insurance industry). Local Authorities having jurisdiction. Federal Communications Commission. Throughout the United States, local authorities WILL NOT approve anything that doesn't meet the bare minimum National Standards. Mr. Newman would have to bring this device to each Committee for every standard that has to be met, BEFORE they can be installed. Can you imagine the response from the local Power Company when you tell them that you are going to install a transfer switch between them and your Newman Device? They will completely disconnect you from the grid. The Utility Companies do not want anything connected to their system that may jeopardize the integrity of the grid. This is the reason for having Electrical Inspectors into a dwelling before a certificate of occupancy can be issued. Only AFTER the Certificate of Occupancy is issued, will the Utility Company hook up power. 4 - How can Joe Newman sell a motor for $7,000.00, when, by his own statement, he has $6,000.00 worth of Neodymium magnets in the motor. Joe Newman is demonstrating a motor with Neodymium magnets inside. This is what he is using as a selling point. The only way he could sell the motor for the asking price, is to replace the Neodymium magnets with Ceramic magnets which are only 1/3 as powerful. Whoever purchases one of these motors with Ceramic magnets inside, is going to find out that it will not produce as stated by Joe Newman. In addition, this is known as "Bait-and Switch". 5 - Why will Joe Newman not let anyone else test his motor ? Joe Newman wants everyone to accept his word that the motor performs as he says. He does not give any results for a "Locked Rotor" Test. He doesn't even use a Dynamometer. He says: "You cannot stop or choke-down the motor using two hands". Furthermore, he will release no specs for the motor performance, so it can be independently verified. Joe likes to refer to "Honest Thinking Individuals". Well, when "Honest Thinking Individuals" ask Joe these questions, he and/or Evan Soule' immediately classify that person as a disbeliever, and a pawn of the Power-Brokers. YOU MUST ACCEPT JOE NEWMAN'S WORD ON BLIND FAITH ! Joe Newman/Evan Soule' refuse to use words like Perpetual Motion, Over Unity, Free Energy, etc. What they DO say is that Newman's motor has over 400% "PRODUCTION EFFICIENCY", compared to Input Power. (Circumlocular chicanery). This really awes the "Layperson". If anyone is seriously considering buying one of these "White Elephants", please take the time to get satisfactory answers to the above questions. Thank You. Regards, Norm Biss Erie, Pa. 8-15-99 normpems@erie.net PS - Please feel free to give this information the widest possible dissemination. --------------5268DC81A08029800C28255D Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Everyone,

If anyone were to assume that Joe Newman's "Energy Machine" will do as he claims, then they should expect Mr. Newman to gladly and truthfully answer the following questions:

1 -   Knowing that it requires an RPM of 3600 to power a Generator for auxilliary power, as a back-up to "Grid" power, why doesn't Joe Newman run his prototype at 3600 RPM ?

Joe runs his motor at 50 or 100 RPM.

2 - Why doesn't he reveal the amount of voltage required to power his motor for the average home ?

Dr. Roger Hastings (Whom Joe quotes when it suits his purpose) has stated that it would require between 10KV and 20KV to run Joe' motor in the average home.

3 - Joe Newman refuses to answer questions concerning approval by UL and NEC (Underwriter Laboratorys) and (National Electric Code).

Anything that is manufactured and is to be connected to any type of dwelling MUST meet the following National Standards:

NFPA 70, 1999 edition, National Electric Code.
Standard Building Code (Latest Edition).
NFPA 101 Life Safety.
NFPA 850 Power Plants (As applicable).
Underwriters Laboratorys.
Factory Mutual  (As an insurance issuer, Factory Mutual set guidelines for the entire insurance industry).
Local Authorities having jurisdiction.
Federal Communications Commission.

Throughout the United States, local authorities WILL NOT  approve anything that doesn't meet the bare minimum National Standards.  Mr. Newman would have to bring this device to each Committee for every standard that has to be met, BEFORE they can be installed.  Can you imagine the response from the local Power Company when you tell them that you are going to install a transfer switch between them and your Newman Device?  They will completely disconnect you from the grid.  The Utility Companies do not want anything connected to their system that may jeopardize the integrity of the grid.  This is the reason for having Electrical Inspectors into a dwelling before a certificate of occupancy can be issued.  Only AFTER the Certificate of Occupancy is issued, will the Utility Company hook up power.

4 - How can Joe Newman sell a motor for $7,000.00, when, by his own statement, he has $6,000.00 worth of Neodymium magnets in the motor.

Joe Newman is demonstrating a motor with Neodymium magnets inside.  This is what he is using as a selling point.  The only way he could sell the motor for the asking price, is to replace the Neodymium magnets with Ceramic magnets which are only 1/3 as powerful.  Whoever purchases one of these motors with Ceramic magnets inside, is going to find out that it will not produce as stated by Joe Newman.  In addition, this is known as "Bait-and Switch".

5 - Why will Joe Newman not let anyone else test his motor ?

Joe Newman wants everyone to accept his word that the motor performs as he says.  He does not give any results for a "Locked Rotor" Test.  He doesn't even use a Dynamometer.  He says:  "You cannot stop or choke-down the motor using two hands".  Furthermore, he will release no specs for the motor performance, so it can be independently verified.

Joe likes to refer to "Honest Thinking Individuals".  Well, when "Honest Thinking Individuals" ask Joe these questions, he and/or Evan Soule' immediately classify that person as a disbeliever, and a pawn of the Power-Brokers.  YOU MUST ACCEPT JOE NEWMAN'S WORD ON BLIND FAITH !
 

Joe Newman/Evan Soule' refuse to use words like Perpetual Motion, Over Unity, Free Energy, etc.  What they DO say is that Newman's motor has over 400% "PRODUCTION EFFICIENCY", compared to Input Power.  (Circumlocular chicanery).  This really awes the "Layperson".

If anyone is seriously considering buying one of these "White Elephants", please take the time to get satisfactory answers to the above questions.

Thank You.

Regards,

Norm Biss
Erie, Pa.
8-15-99

normpems@erie.net

PS - Please feel free to give this information the widest possible dissemination.
 
  --------------5268DC81A08029800C28255D-- --------------B3B312201131051901B787FB-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 19:44:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA24671; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:44:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:44:15 -0700 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhQW4jNmKLzMfwczBd9lNfSEeyuhvAIUEZbF1TKkLIp1VQxcfaDAevvpPCU= From: djg77@webtv.net (D. Garrett) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:44:12 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: joe newman is at it again Message-ID: <12491-37D32A7C-17104@postoffice-623.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Norm Biss 's message of Sun, 05 Sep 1999 22:33:39 -0400 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"6mADR2.0.O16.-foqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11759 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: thanks. maybe this will shut up a band width waster on another list. George Burns is God. i'm just Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 20:09:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA30781; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 20:08:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 20:08:59 -0700 Message-ID: <37D3308F.81C5097F@microtec.net> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 23:10:07 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hay Barb c. References: <19990905232942.33982.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2jmOx3.0.sW7.B1pqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11760 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Maybe it was not floating three months on the net. Maybe she didn't noticed the email for 3 months, or maybe she answered it 3 months later. Timothy Flytcher wrote: > Sometimes it seems we are dealing with never never land... some times they > work and some time they don't??? (just like the US mail) I once sent an > e-mail to a friend ... she got it three months latter!!! could > someone...anyone, please explain where it was floating for THREE months???? > > >Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 18:50:07 EDT > > > >In a message dated 09/05/1999 10:19:47 PM !!!First Boot!!!, > >trevcox@tinet.ie > >writes: > > > ><< http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm >> > >I got it this time! Barb c. > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 21:34:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA16777; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:34:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:34:17 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Newman Bitching Message-Id: <936592455.29936.487@excite.com> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 21:34:15 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.129 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"fdtHX3.0.264.9Hqqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11761 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Concurrent with Norm Biss of Erie Pa bitching about Newman and his non-delivery of results, and the very good facts that he has provided to the public concerning his work on Newmans motor using the neodymium magnets, I think Norm also may have the same disease as Newman as goes not looking beyond ones own nose. Some time ago I wrote a letter to Norm concerning the work I am doing, he may have deleted that or is not aware. So I will repeat this again, and I am not suffering from breathing ozone. Around 1992 I constructed a copper magnetic motor of epic proportions that illustrated something heretofore never realized: a magnetic rotor that when spun as a generator produced a square wave resemblance rather than a sine wave. When the inverse operation was made as a motor it was more highly efficient than any Newman motor. When I said that polar and side coils could be combined in geometry to produce a higher torque than both models combined, there was no comment, because no one apparently believes me, or realizes the significance. However the operation of this device is recorded for posterity on VHS tape. Because of the implications involved with the thinking of these field coils I came up with the amazing fact that by simply turning the side coils on and off a magnetic rotor could be continually rotated by DC without any polarity changes, although the side coils still had to shut on and off. That was a bad idea because it could be shown by theory, but was not practical. So now Norm Biss should look at this video, if he wishes to learn. I will gladly send him a copy if he publicly asks for it on this list. But I went beyond this idea of a rotating magnet and instead went with the possibillity of making a rotating dielectric molecule inside the copper magnetic field, and then refined the possibility of the high frequency being CONTINUALLY being maintained, rather than the blink of a commutator causing this effect. This refinement is obvious as a method of water fracturing, a la dead S. Meyer from Columbus, Ohio or the late Andrija Purahich from Virginia, and the not yet deceased Harvey D Norris promoting my own agenda. HDN Sincerly: Having to be as crazy as others judge me. In fact of manner, I dont wish to criticize Norm so much but in turn he has not opened up his mind to the possibillities ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 21:38:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA18258; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:37:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:37:50 -0700 Message-ID: <37D3446C.38F5CB7@mail.admiral.ru> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 08:34:52 +0400 From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Reply-To: frolov@mail.admiral.ru Organization: Home Lab X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: time-machine References: <152b9271.2503c93a@aol.com> <37D2799B.7BC0307@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"B1sUM1.0.6T4.TKqqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11762 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, I hope you are practically minded people. Look http://www.time-machine.spb.ru for some practical proposals on gravity, energy, time control. There is description of Dr. Chernobrov's time-machine experiment of 1990-1996 also. You can found CDs about experiments http://www.time-machine.spb.ru/cd.htm Alexander -- http://www.time-machine.spb.ru ICQ 43757451 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 22:43:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA28756; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 22:42:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 22:42:51 -0700 Message-ID: <37D35442.22AE2024@harti.com> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 07:42:26 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , Free Energy Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Joseph Newman's response to Stefan Hartmann's comments]] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------87F68685CD64A05B5E34A409" Resent-Message-ID: <"UyV4D2.0.C17.RHrqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11763 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. --------------87F68685CD64A05B5E34A409 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi All, these questions have to be addressed and answered, otherwise we don´t know, what is going on inside the new Newman motor. Mr. Soule did not wish to have Ted Gonbert post these questions, but I guess this would be censorship. I think these questions should be answered, cause otherwise we will stay "in the dark". We just want to know the facts. I also don´t go into a flame war with "name calling" cause it is time wasting. Regards, Stefan. -------- Original Message -------- Betreff: Re: [Fwd: Joseph Newman's response to Stefan Hartmann's comments] Datum: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 13:25:14 -0500 Von: Ted Gondert An: "Stefan Hartmann" Referenzen: <37CEECF4.77C5621B@harti.com> <37CF0A59.97B80434@teleweb.net> <37CF834D.13C41DA5@harti.com> Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Do you know somebody, who has been at the last demo ? No. Isn't anybody on the newman list been at demonstration? Atached is my reply to Newman's comments about my questions of "Watts/HP test prove the truth" --------------87F68685CD64A05B5E34A409 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="Newmn-rpy2.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Newmn-rpy2.txt" ->THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN > 11445 East Via Linda, No. 416 > Scottsdale, Arizona 85259 > (480) 657-3722 > josephnewman@earthlink.net www.josephnewman.com > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE (September 1, 1999) > WATTS/H.P. TEST PROVES THE TRUTH! > [All motors tested start test from dead stop position of >motors.] >TEST:(1). In 2 seconds the newest and original Newman Motor >operating while connected to Solar Panels lifts 14 lbs 2 feet high >while drawing ONLY .2 amps! JOE NEWMAN'S REPLY TO THE FOLLOWING COMMENTS ABOUT HIS TESTS >To: Stefan Hartmann >With respect to the CAPITALIZED portions of your post, it appears that >you are quoting negative and deceiving comments from an unnamed source. >Those who attended said demonstration of my technology and then stated >"ANYONE WHO CAN'T UNDERSTAND THIS IS AN IDIOT." >As usual "you" are WRONG AGAIN! From the very beginning of said >demonstration I proved CLEARLY that the LOSSES in the Newman Motor were >GREATER than the input power to the Newman Motor of a mere 2.08 watts! >Yes, "IDIOT," I have already put out and tested a D.C. 180-volt Motor >from Grainger with same type results. ********************************************************************** REPLY TO ABOVE JOSEPH NEWMAN COMMENTS I AM SORRY IF JOSEPH NEWMAN WAS OFFENDED BY MY QUESTIONS ABOUT HIS "WATTS/HP TEST PROVES THE TRUTH" I WON'T INSULT JOE BY CALLING HIM A LIAR, IDIOT, CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY LIKE HE DOES TO ME. LET'S KEEP ON SCIENTIFIC DEBATE WITHOUT AD-HOMINEM ARGUMENTS. JOE NEWMAN'S TEST RESULTS POSTED WHERE: 14 LBS * 2 FEET /2 SECONDS = 14 LB-FT/SEC OR 14/550 = .02545 HP = (746 X .02545) 19 WATTS OUTPUT. THE INPUT POWER ASSUMING 104 VOLTS X 0.2 AMPS = 20.8 WATTS. WHAT WAS THE VOLTAGE OF SOLAR PANELS SUPPLYING 0.2 AMPS TO NEWMAN MOTOR? JOE NEWMAN HASN'T ANSWERED. BUT NOW HE IS CLAIMING ONLY 2.08 WATTS INPUT. FOR 0.2 AMPS THAT WOULD BE 10.4 VOLTS, OR IS THE INPUT CURRENT ONLY 0.02 AMPS (20 ma)? IS 10.4 VOLTS THE VOLTAGE OF ALL THE SOLAR PANELS IN SERIES? NOTE: POSSIBLY DECIMAL POINT ERROR: 2.08 WATTS VS 20.8 WATTS WHAT'S VOLTAGE OF THE SOLAR PANELS IN PARALLEL CONNECTED TO GRAINGER OR MINNKOTTA MOTOR WHEN SUPPLYING 6.4 AMPS? JOE COMMENTED THAT SOLAR PANELS MAXIMUM CURRENT IS 0.28 AMPS. THAT WOULD NEED 22 SOLAR PANELS IN PARALLEL TO SUPPLY 6.4 AMPS THAT MINNKOTTA OR GRAINGER MOTOR USED. JOE NEWMAN STATES HE TESTED 180 VOLT DC MOTOR ALSO BUT DIDN'T MENTION THOSE TEST RESULTS. WE ARE NOT PSYCHIC, HOW DOES HE EXPECT US TO KNOW? 180 VOLT FHP MOTOR WOULD BE BETTER FOR COMPARISON SINCE IT IS SIMILAR VOLTAGE TO NEWMAN'S MOTOR WITHOUT HAVING TO REWIRE THE SOLAR PANELS. "I used the SAME voltage with a battery pack as voltage of said Solar" "Panels" "THE NEWMAN MOTOR LIFTED 100 LBS 2 FEET HIGH IN LESS THAN" "1 SECOND! The Motor now drew 1 amp of current, but the BATTERY" "VOLTAGE DID NOT NOTICEABLY FALL!" WHAT WAS THE BATTERY VOLTAGE INPUT TO NEWMAN'S MOTOR? NEWMAN MOTOR PRODUCES 200 LB-FT/SECOND = 0.3636 HP = 271.27 WATTS MOTOR USES 1 AMP, BUT WITHOUT VOLTAGE WE CAN'T CALCULATE THE WATTS. IN CONCLUSION: WE NEED ALL THE TEST RESULTS TO EVALUATE THEM. NOT EVERYONE COULD ATTEND THE DEMONSTRATION IN PHEONIX, AZ IF NEWMAN'S MOTOR IS PRODUCING MORE OUTPUT SHAFT POWER THAN INPUT ELECTRIC POWER, IT SHOULD RUN FROM GENERATOR CONNECTED TO SHAFT. SCIENTIFIC METHOD IS TO DESIGN EXPERIMENT THAT CAN BE DUPLICATED BY OTHERS FOR VERIFICATION. HAS JOE NEWMAN DONE THIS? WHO ARE THE EXPERTS THAT EVALUATED HIS MOTOR AT THE PHEONIX DEMONSTRATION? CAN WE CONTACT THEM FOR MORE INFORMATION? CONVENTIONAL THEORY WORKS, MOST OF US HAVE SEVERAL MOTORS, ETC. IN OUR HOUSEHOLDS THAT WHERE DESIGNED THAT WAY. UNTIL NEW THEORY THAT CAN BE UNIVERSALLY APPLIED TO EXISTING DEVICES AND NEW DESIGNS, WE WILL CONTINUE TO USE CONVENTIONAL ELECTRICAL THEORY. [SIGNED] Ted Gondert --------------87F68685CD64A05B5E34A409-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 23:10:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA01154; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:09:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:09:50 -0700 Message-ID: <37D35868.D6F5613C@harti.com> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 08:00:08 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Harvey Norris Subject: Re: Neons References: <936422752.5192.644@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SJLIr1.0.sH.kgrqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11764 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Harvey. do you know how a neon lamp sawtooth generator works ??? You just need a capacitor, a resistor and a neon lamp. You probably have build one of these, where you just use the R of L ! Try to write shorter emails and learn how to scan schematics and put them onto a web site. Then the people will listen to you... Your email posts are just too long ! Nobody has time to read them all through... Regards, Stefan. Harvey Norris schrieb: > > A mad scientists lab is not complete without a collection of neon > or argon tubes, that respectively glow orange and blue when electrical > high voltage discharge causes them to glow. Unlike the florescent > counterpart that has a phospherescent coating inside the glass that > produces the lighting effect, these two gas tubes allow one to see > the actual plasma glow of an ionized gas. > > > > Sincerly HDN > Beaty became so radical > > and will be seen as a success or failure depending > whether the idea is feasible and workable and will > be noted on 9/7/99. HDN > > ________________________________________________________________ > Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com > Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 23:13:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA01907; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:13:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:13:43 -0700 Message-ID: <37D35B9C.6BBBBAF1@harti.com> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 08:13:48 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TMB Kit Available References: <000701bef6fd$92fc0020$092efea9@fs11> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wbAm9.0.iT.Nkrqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11765 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: atg0317 schrieb: > > See http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/tmb.htm > > A TMB kit is now available. The cost is for parts alone, no profit and no > rip-off. > > Ron. Why don´t you sell a MFVC kit for 100 US$ ? Maybe then will come in more orders... ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 23:16:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA03654; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:16:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:16:40 -0700 Message-ID: <37D35C72.470BAED1@sprynet.com> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 23:17:23 -0700 From: Eric Tonkins X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: working y2k generator plans References: <006001beefff$f8bd3140$85b6bfd1@Pfepps> <37C59D92.B87CCBB8@csi.com> <37C5E095.521F9F2E@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sIsrv2.0._u.7nrqt"@mx1> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11766 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I know the internet must have tons of FREE do-it-yourself plans for electric generation and storage. I'm tired chasing down dead end internet searches. Anyone know of a internet clearing house for simple home-built generators and storage devices and their plans? (Preferably Human Powered!) Even a point in the right direction would help. Any ideas? Thanks, Eric From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 23:36:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA07054; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:36:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:36:44 -0700 Message-ID: <37D346F7.22DC7FAC@telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 23:45:43 -0500 From: Don Adams Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eks1@earthlink.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: STEVEN GIBBS ? References: <2f66ecb2.25030226@aol.com> <37D22579.BD38326C@ihug.co.nz> <37D2D8D9.38CF74FD@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"g7A2-.0.7k1.y3sqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11767 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a twister.... while I agree that 'proof' is required, I'm also a bit leery of what Decker might have to say about this all.... on the one hand he seems into Radionics, which I agree with Erik is dubious metaphysical hoo ha which I have never personally seen any concrete evidence of.. while on the other hand he has told me in the past that Gibbs seemed to be out to lunch... so, for my two cents, proof of some kind would have to be provided.... eks1 wrote: > John Berry wrote: > > > Pepthewep@aol.com wrote: > > > > > John, Steven Gibbs is a time traveler? > > > > He claims to be. (I don't have any good reason to doubt him, but I'm a bit > > skeptical of the subject in general) > > http://home.inreach.com/dov/tt.htm > > You can buy a time machine from him (I must lead a strange life as that's three > > places I know of where you can buy them, and I know one person who claims to > > have experienced it) > > Hyper Dimensional Resonator ?? Uhhh..John you do realize that the entire subject > of "radionics" is completely outside the domain of even Weird Science? > > to bring a BUTTERFLY NET!> > > Honestly, $360 for a "Time Machine"?? Do you really believe that??? > > If he's sold 20 of these things and they actually worked, we'd be up to our hip- > pockets in temporal paradoxes by now! I'm afrad that I have to side with Jerry > Decker on this whole bag of snakes...such claims require PROOF. > > As an aside, since this kludge plugs into a wall socket...isnt he required to get > a > UL certification?? > > -Erik -- *********************************************************** Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just... let it happen. -- Special Agent Dale Cooper ... ====================================================================== Don J.S. Adams, Overseer and Registered Agent for Domhnall C G N Adams - (Corporation Sole - Lawful Entity Name) RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 23:39:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA07694; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:38:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:38:54 -0700 Message-ID: <37D34779.39716263@telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 23:47:54 -0500 From: Don Adams Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: STEVEN GIBBS ? References: <014001bef7f6$3d838ec0$674a66d1@w7o9k8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gyqLJ.0.3u1.z5sqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11768 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well, there is an indepth interview of Steve Gibbs on Art Bells site. You can listen to what he has to say about this whole matter if you want using Real Audio on the internet. For the record, Gibbs says that he has no desire to personally travel with his own device because he feels it is to 'dangerous' but he seems more than happy to sell them to other people? Fred Epps wrote: > Hi Erik and all, > > > > >Hyper Dimensional Resonator ?? Uhhh..John you do realize that the entire > subject > >of "radionics" is completely outside the domain of even Weird Science? > > tell em > to bring a BUTTERFLY NET!> > > You can't assume that other members of this list feel the way you do, as > your statement implies. > > Radionics has a long and venerable experimental tradition. It is part of our > list charter under " Psi phenomena and Paranormal". On top of everything > else, it works---at least sometimes. > > I have no opinion on the claims of Mr Gibbs. I have not seen evidence either > way. The fact that he uses radionics does not justify his dismissal. > > And by the way, most of the scientific world would put us all in the > butterfly net for even discussing most of the subjects on this list. Maybe > they are right. Maybe we are all already crazy and don't know it. But > somehow I don't think so... > > Fred -- *********************************************************** Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just... let it happen. -- Special Agent Dale Cooper ... ====================================================================== Don J.S. Adams, Overseer and Registered Agent for Domhnall C G N Adams - (Corporation Sole - Lawful Entity Name) RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 23:47:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA10193; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:46:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:46:52 -0700 Message-ID: <37D34954.95E5E4D2@telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 23:55:48 -0500 From: Don Adams Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: New@telusplanet.net, Curve@telusplanet.net, Makes@telusplanet.net, Life@telusplanet.net, Predictable@telusplanet.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: New Curve Makes Life Predictable References: <152b9271.2503c93a@aol.com> <37D2799B.7BC0307@ihug.co.nz> <37D3446C.38F5CB7@mail.admiral.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tM13Q2.0.AV2.SDsqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11769 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: By Michael Peel http://www.ft.com/hippocampus/q14ae5a.htm 9-6-99 Albert Einstein's dictum that God "does not play dice" looks like turning from a great man's aside into a universal truth. Scientists from Britain, France and the US have discovered a mathematical curve that seems to explain seemingly random events, such as aircraft turbulence and forest fires. Their findings challenge the pre-eminence of the bell-shaped curve, the standard device used to forecast probabilities in areas as diverse as natural disasters and children's exam results. The new curve is broader and more gently sloping, suggesting that the rarest events occur more often than predicted by the bell-shaped curve. The breakthrough could have far-reaching consequences in areas such as engineering, insurance and ecology which rely on forecasts of probabilities that specific events will occur. Donald Turcotte, professor of geological sciences at Cornell University, New York, said he discovered the curve after plotting graphs of the severity of floods in the US. His study suggested the worst incidents occurred more often than indicated by official predictions, which were based on the bell-shaped curve. The idea of a new universal curve crystallised after quirks of fate brought together scientists working on various natural phenomena including avalanches, earthquakes and the abundance of species in eco-systems. Their findings suggest that industrialists and conservationists alike may have to review some of the key assumptions underpinning their work. Chaos theory link The discovery draws on chaos theory, a branch of maths that revolves around identifying patterns in apparently random sequences of events. Chaos theory has been used, with varying degrees of success, to account for phenomena from the galactic clustering of stars to the rise and fall of civilisations. The British, French and US scientists sought to reconcile their findings in the laboratory with the often wild-sounding predictions of chaos theory. Their work shows that a central concept of chaos theory, known as self-similarity, can be used to connect the results of studies in otherwise unrelated fields, such as turbulence and environmental science. Dr Steve Bramwell of University College, London, whose research on magnetism helped yield the new curve, said the link he had forged between chaos theory and experimental rigour was "something you can't escape". Einstein, who sought predictability in the real world and argued that quantum mechanics was an inadequate universal theory, would have approved From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 23:57:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA13121; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:57:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:57:42 -0700 Message-ID: <37D365E5.81E3222@harti.com> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 08:57:41 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: electro-plating iron onto Copper wire ? X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kyhfe2.0.wC3.cNsqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11770 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, does anybody know, which Iron-salt could be used for electrolytic deposition of Iron onto a Copper wire ? I want to place a Copper wire into a salt bath and use electrolysis to put a thin film of iron metal around the copper wire. I would like to try the MED device (see www.overunity.com/update.htm) with electro-plating iron metal onto the copper wire and magnetize it, so the MED effect might get bigger this way. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 00:22:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA17781; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 00:22:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 00:22:21 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-2-dyn2.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.102.74.17] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 00:22:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <034a01bef837$d3673a40$454a66d1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Anyone know Oleg Jefimenko? Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 00:05:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"jrET_2.0.kL4.jksqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11771 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 10:25 AM Subject: Anyone know Oleg Jefimenko? > >Anyone have Dr. Jefimenko's Email addr? Hi Bill, Here's his web page and his email addy is at the bottom. http://www.as.wvu.edu/coll03/phys/www/jefimenk.htm Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 01:12:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA25793; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 01:12:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 01:12:30 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-2-dyn2.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.102.74.17] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 01:12:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <03b701bef83e$d478cd20$454a66d1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Interesting patent Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 01:05:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03B3_01BEF803.FA09F720" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"wEtz82.0.sI6.jTtqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11772 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03B3_01BEF803.FA09F720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Folks, In searching through patents looking for precedents to the TMB I = stumbled on this one, that may or may not relate to the TMB but is = interesting in its own right. It's similar in some ways to the Aspden/ = Strachan Thermoelectric generator but has some unique features of its = own. It is a sophisticated machine and I can't say I really understand = it yet but it is worth looking at. http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=3DUS03824448__ De Rivas is well known for his later flux switching design http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn10=3DUS04006401 Which claims overunity. Fred ------=_NextPart_000_03B3_01BEF803.FA09F720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Folks,
 
In searching through patents looking = for=20 precedents to the TMB I stumbled on this one, that may or may not relate = to the=20 TMB but is interesting in its own right. It's similar in some ways to = the=20 Aspden/ Strachan Thermoelectric generator but has some unique features = of its=20 own. It is a sophisticated machine and I can't say I really understand = it yet=20 but it is worth looking at.
 
http://www.= patents.ibm.com/details?pn=3DUS03824448__
 
De Rivas is well known for his later = flux=20 switching design
 
http://www.= patents.ibm.com/details?pn10=3DUS04006401
 
Which claims overunity.
 
Fred
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_03B3_01BEF803.FA09F720-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 01:46:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA29753; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 01:46:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 01:46:44 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Square Wave Output. Message-Id: <936607594.22801.534@excite.com> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 01:46:34 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"U0mTk.0.oG7.qztqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11773 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I will now explain how a rotating magnet in a superior field coil formation delivers a semblance of a square wave output on an oscilloscope. In this design 4 field coils are used and each description is given as a set, by identical implication. When a rotating magnet is acted on the pole of a coil the width of the magnet pole vs the width of the interior area encompassed by the windings being transversed in relation to the width of the magnets travel through the polar area serves to show a sort of double reversal or cancellation effect noted by Newman sized coils where this width of windings is responsible for that effect. Since the width of the magnet is comparable to width of the polar coil windings when half the flux lines from the rotating magnet cross the width of these windings in travel,those become in the internal area delivering a flux change opposite to that entering from the exterior space. The net result of a magnet rotating in a polar area with these dimensions is then a sort of reversal of voltage because of this onset responce of flux change laws, but in no way serves to exist as a full cancellation effect during the whole duration of magnet travel, but only shows as a voltage decrease during supposed maximum increase of flux change interaction with the coil. This interaction shows with a set of polar coils with a magnet rotor in between them as a distorted sine wave with the respective wiggle in the opposite ends of the wave as observed on a scope during magnet travel. In light of the fact that these coils are large and air core, easily producing high frequency effects ect., they are foreign to modern motor concepts, but what has been described as a polar interaction here is exactly what all motor technology has been designed on. Because of this little querk of reversal that has been observed, I have combined it with another quirk that is not so readily evident. But first I must go on with this explanation. These effects were observed on a 9 1/2 inch length magnetic rotor vs 13 inch ht copper coils of 20,000 winds with no iron core. When the coils are arranged so that the magnet sweeps the sides of the coil instead of the polar area, a perfect sine wave is obtained, of lesser voltage value than the preceeding polar instance. The side model has a weaker effect of induced voltages, exactly in accordance with common sence, which is why that model isnt used in motors. So why is that model important? Well Newman thought it was important and a whole slew of people have gone down that route. The difference is very simple, the side model is resonant, and the polar is not. A resonant model will attract and repel a magnet in revolution without a polarity change, and when that polarity change is made, the field interaction is at a minumum. Ferromagnetic motors are designed opposite to change polarity at the position of maximum torque because that is the nature of that historical beast. Now when each model is superimposed upon each other and the added effects compared, they do not add up algebraicly, pardon my french. They do exactly opposite to everyones conception of what they actually do as a summation of vectors in each case example. Let me illustrate by force example: a force of 3 lbs is noted when magnet attracts to poles about 10 degrees away from that center. It has been established that the side force of a coil in the same application is weaker so a side torque or force example when the coils are arranged in that position may only be 1.5 lbs. In this mental example there is no way that the magnet can be subject to the strongest pulls from both examples and so the experiment becomes one of allowing both examples to exist in their respective spaces. Now to mention this famous 2nd quirk, when both systems are so coordinated to deliver identical torques or forces on the magnet rotor that each separate condition delivers, it is found that the collected magnetic effects interpreted as summation of force vectors actually seem to cancel rather than add, as each would act alone. Thus the normal polarity that causes the magnet to move when against the side of field coils, combined with the same effect that occurs alone with polar coils that would cause the magnet to rotate in the same direction, when placed together in space causes a dead spot magnetically at the side interaction, where it was presumed these vectors would add to produce a unitive force. This being highly unusual, it was then deduced that when the side coil polarity was changed to produce the opposite effect it normally produced, it was then observed SOMETHING MIRACULOUS, the force on the side torque was greater than even the polar! This is what I reffered to as "magnetic compression" because the poles of the field coil orientation were essentially against each other rather than in agreement. When those field coils are connected in series like that the reaction from the double reversal of polar areas formerly constituting a polar reaction combine with the side coils to eliminate the normal double reversal. In place of that is a very upward spike of voltage where this double reversal has been circumvented and reversed. This then is the explanation of a field coil formation that delivers a semblance of a square wave. HDN 9/6/99 ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 02:01:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA32351; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 02:01:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 02:01:32 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Neons Message-Id: <936608490.9422.15@excite.com> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 02:01:30 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"KBmUi1.0.Kv7.hBuqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11774 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 06 Sep 1999 08:00:08 +0200, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > Hi Harvey. > do you know how a neon lamp sawtooth generator works ??? > > You just need a capacitor, a resistor and a neon lamp. > > You probably have build one of these, where you just use > the R of L ! Roger: Will Go Back to School, will advise superiors of my lack of judgement.HDN > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! > ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 02:30:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA04268; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 02:30:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 02:30:11 -0700 Message-ID: <002601bef84a$604733e0$96d2989e@callaghansystems.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: "David Callaghan" From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Plasma Sail Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:29:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"rhunQ.0.b21.Zcuqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11775 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All This weeks New Scientist magazine details a Plasma Sail for use by spacecraft driven by the solar wind. A large plasma bubble is created and retained by a magnetic field, thus giving a large surface area for the solar wind to give momentum to the craft. I haven't got www access at the moment to check but you can probably read about it at: www.newscientist.com Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 04:05:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA13909; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 04:04:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 04:04:48 -0700 Sender: jack@mail3.centuryinter.net Message-ID: <37D36805.25E70BF9@mail.pc.centuryinter.net> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 07:06:45 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New Curve Makes Life Predictable References: <152b9271.2503c93a@aol.com> <37D2799B.7BC0307@ihug.co.nz> <37D3446C.38F5CB7@mail.admiral.ru> <37D34954.95E5E4D2@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tqdME1.0.EP3.F_vqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11776 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Don Adams wrote: > > By Michael Peel > http://www.ft.com/hippocampus/q14ae5a.htm > 9-6-99 Hi Don, I went to the link and found the article and a related article, but no url's. I was wondering if you had any. Jack Smith From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 05:07:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA23433 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 05:07:21 -0700 Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 05:07:21 -0700 X-Envelope-From: jdo@ucalgary.ca Mon Sep 6 05:07:20 1999 Received: from mserve1.acs.ucalgary.ca (mserve1.acs.ucalgary.ca [136.159.34.51]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA23397 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 05:07:20 -0700 received: from acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca(136.159.34.205) by mserve1.acs.ucalgary.ca via smap (V2.0) id ZZ588488; Mon, 6 Sep 99 06:07:10 -0600 Received: from localhost (jdo@localhost) by ucalgary.ca (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA84824; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 06:06:44 -0600 Old-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 06:06:44 -0600 (MDT) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" X-Sender: jdo@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca To: Eric Tonkins cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: working y2k generator plans In-Reply-To: <37D35C72.470BAED1@sprynet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: you said:"simple home-built generators and storage devices and their plans? (Preferably Human Powered!)" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric: Have you investigated "The Ultimate Multi-Purpose Independence Tool Kit" sold by Jade Mountain of Boulder CO. www.jademountain.com? Jorg Ostrowski From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 05:29:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA27429; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 05:29:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 05:29:28 -0700 Message-ID: <37D3B3A6.B7752461@harti.com> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 14:29:26 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , Free Energy , daveem m Subject: Re: Something is obviously wrong. References: <3936-37D3864B-28321@postoffice-163.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hoY2b3.0.Ui6.eExqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11777 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: daveem m wrote: > > > Something is very wrong when a mans questioning brings on such > insults. Joes response makes is look as if he doesn't want to address > the question, so he responds by changing the topic and throwing out a > few insults. The question was very reasonable and needs to be answered. I agree. The question was very simple: What was the DC battery voltage in the test, when 100 LBS was lifted in one second 2 feet high and the motor draw 1 Ampere ? > What is the applied voltage, current, and weight being lifted over time? > and once again, why doesn't Joe attach a small generator to his motors > out put shaft, and take the excess power it should create to run his > newest motor on its own energy? And why in the world is Joe testing his > motor in such a vague manner as to leave the results so questionable? > I'm sorry to be speaking this way about a man I would really like to > believe in, but this has all the markings of a good con in spite of the > more promising videos I have seen in the past. Dave Maltz The only possible answer I could think of, if I would behave like this is: His motor is not mechanically overunity ! Thus the whole motor would make no sense. Why spend 7000 US$ for a 95 % efficient motor ? You can get this already today much cheaper. If I would have a mechanically overunity motor, I would publish ALL tests datas, so everyone could see, that I am over 100 % mechanically, but therefore I would also have to provide the input voltage of course. Regards, Stefan. > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 05:34:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA28623; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 05:33:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 05:33:50 -0700 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hay Barb c. Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 07:51:09 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: <19990905232942.33982.qmail@hotmail.com> <37D3308F.81C5097F@microtec.net> In-Reply-To: <37D3308F.81C5097F@microtec.net> Lines: 20 X-Newsreader: VSoup v1.2.9.37Beta [95/NT] Resent-Message-ID: <"IqSX3.0.3_6.jIxqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11778 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Maybe it was not floating three months on the net. Maybe she didn't noticed the >email for 3 months, or maybe she answered it 3 months later. Some thing goes wrong in a server some place, and eventially a technition notices it and sends it on its way. Usually after all this acculating mail has eaten all avaliable disk space. I read a report in one of the real paper magazines that covers Internet and it said today (then) email was only about 70% reliable on a global scale, and its reliablity was continuing to fall. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/ Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 05:54:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA00755; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 05:53:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 05:53:53 -0700 Message-Id: <199909061253.OAA37321@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Trohodon" To: Subject: Re: Hay Barb c. Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:15:06 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gYBky2.0.iB.Wbxqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11779 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Hi, > > Maybe it was not floating three months on the net. Maybe she didn't noticed the > email for 3 months, or maybe she answered it 3 months later. Funny story.... Three weeks after a disappointing icq blinddate i received a love poem!! My happily calling her back she was NOT happy at all hearing my voice..... We both used hotmail accounts so my guess we can call this new phenonem the Bill Gates love sucking Conspiracy...... Love sucks anyway...;-)) Regards, Aris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 05:54:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA00788; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 05:53:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 05:53:55 -0700 Message-Id: <199909061253.OAA37330@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Trohodon" To: Subject: Re: Russian investor in water fuel car Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:32:15 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hjqjA2.0.CC.Ybxqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11780 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Nice speech Harvey, but what kind of pie were you referring to? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 05:54:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA00824; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 05:53:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 05:53:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199909061253.OAA37337@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Trohodon" To: Subject: Re: Plasma Sail Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:42:34 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-V7Ei1.0.nC.abxqt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11781 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In het nederlands..... http://www.planet.nl/discovery/nieuws/archief/1999/08/240899.shtml#supersnel English....... http://abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DyeHard/dye990818.html ---------- > Van: David Callaghan > Aan: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Onderwerp: Plasma Sail > Datum: maandag 6 september 1999 11:29 > > Hi All > > This weeks New Scientist magazine details a Plasma Sail for use by > spacecraft driven by the solar wind. > > A large plasma bubble is created and retained by a magnetic field, thus > giving a large surface area for the solar wind to give momentum to the > craft. > > I haven't got www access at the moment to check but you can probably read > about it at: > > www.newscientist.com > > > Best regards > > David Callaghan > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 08:43:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA08216; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 08:43:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 08:43:42 -0700 Message-ID: <37D3E12F.869785C9@harti.com> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 17:43:43 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , Free Energy Subject: The only thing Newman would have to do... X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0LbKf.0.C02.j4-qt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11782 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ...to have thousands of orders: He could just tell us: What the voltage and amperage is, that is going into his motor, when he lifts his 100 LBS weight 2 feet per second. (verified by some eye-witness guys from this list) So everybody could calculate, if his motor is mechanically over 100 % efficient. If the electrical input power is indeed smaller than the mechanical output power, then such a public demo with all the above data would convince all of us. The lack of this demonstration since the last half year , since he has the motor in his hands rises the conclusion, that his motor is not over 100 % efficient and his whole overunity-motor concept is obsolete and that he wants to hide this fact from the public. Just my private view. If you really think different, then why could Newman as "one of the greatest inventors" not deliver a data sheet or conclusive measurement results of his motor ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 10:02:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA28182; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:02:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:02:26 -0700 Message-ID: <37D3E53E.56966438@datacomm.ch> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 18:01:02 +0200 From: Felix Meyer Organization: hb9abx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TMB Kit Available References: <000701bef6fd$92fc0020$092efea9@fs11> <37D16EB7.C166E171@datacomm.ch> <000901bef713$156914c0$f766fea9@fs11> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qN5sr2.0.Fu6.YE_qt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11783 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: atg0317 schrieb: > > From: Felix Meyer > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 2:10 PM > Subject: Re: TMB Kit Available > > > > atg0317 schrieb: > > > > > > See http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/tmb.htm > > > > > > ... snip > > This page is not loading correctly. > > Dont know what is wrong > > > > Felix > > > > Thanks for the info, although we did check it and it appears to be working. > We have had 39 viewers in the last three hours. > > Maybe try again, you could have hit it when we were working on it. Please > let me know if you continue to have problems. > Ron. Sept.6 The page is now loading correctly, except the image "NEW02.GIF" (check upper/lower case ?). I have further question abot TMB: What happens if you connect 20 cells in serie ? Do you obtain steady 1 Volt at 0.5 mA load ? Felix From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 10:05:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA30451 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:05:30 -0700 Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:05:30 -0700 X-Envelope-From: mg3545@mail.com Mon Sep 6 10:05:29 1999 Received: from rmx01.mail.com (rmx01.mail.com [165.251.48.150]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA30428; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:05:28 -0700 Received: from web01_mc.iname.net (web01.pub01.mail.com [165.251.32.10]) by rmx01.mail.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA29209; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:05:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <388428168.936637528458.JavaMail.root@web01_mc.iname.net> Old-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:05:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Goldes To: Quinney , vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: EST. The power storage breakthrough. Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: mail.com X-Originating-IP: 207.44.219.205 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: ------Original Message------ From: Quinney To: Sent: September 4, 1999 9:20:00 PM GMT Subject: EST. The power storage breakthrough. To All, I realize that some of us are already aware of this, but I believe that it is important enough to bear a repeat. The power-to-weight ratio of the EST stable plasma totally blows away all existing fuel or energy storage devices by several orders of magnitude. It can be safely used in houses, cars, planes, and for interplanetary and interstellar craft. (Maybe even for fusion?) It potentially stores 10^11 Joules (!) within a containment vessel weighing 94 Kg. The exhaust gases (non-combustion) from heating: Isp = 1.43 x 10^5 sec! The electron spiral toroid device (EST): A spiral of paired electrons rotating in a stabilized toroid configuration. Energy can be added by continuously pumping it with microwave energy. So far, there has been no indication of limiting factors. The leakage is small, and the EST configuration is reported as stable. The manufacturing technique is proprietary, but in spite of that, several large corporations are now directly funding Clint Seward of Electron Power Systems, Inc. They are now building large units. The cash strapped NASA Institute for Advanced Concepts is also funding. . A 26 page (pdf) description [and story] is a 'must read' for anyone attempting replication: Clint Seward Electron Power Systems, Inc. "Low-Cost Space Transportation Using Electron Spiral Toroid (EST) Propulsion" There was research of plasma toroids during the 1980's within a Star Wars type of electromagnetic accelerator The shape may have been the only thing in common, although some folks might consider the EST as a spin-off. And for those of you who enjoy slugging though IBM's patent images and their iffy downloads-- 3 Seward patents: http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05175466__ http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05589727__ http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05773919__ If anyone wishes to attempt it, a good place to start might be the Ball Lightning Experiments using a kitchen microwave oven-- Bill Beaty's Site: Best Colin Quinney A review of the Seward paper both here and by a well respected researcher that many of you know and who would probably prefer that his name not be used, does not offer much optimism that it can actually achieve the promised performance or anything remotely close. It would be nice to see evidence of long runs and really useful energy storage. The paper strikes both reviewers as heavy on hype and light on really solid work. Evidence to the contrary (i.e. emphatically not speculation, but real experiments, that can be reproduced by other labs) would be most welcome. Mark Goldes __________________________________________________ FREE Email for ALL! Sign up at http://www.mail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 10:15:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA02903; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:15:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:15:42 -0700 Message-ID: <001d01bef88b$ba9dd100$03f3fea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: References: <000701bef6fd$92fc0020$092efea9@fs11> <37D16EB7.C166E171@datacomm.ch> <000901bef713$156914c0$f766fea9@fs11> <37D3E53E.56966438@datacomm.ch> Subject: Re: TMB Kit Available Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 12:17:41 -0500 Organization: atgroup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"m6fsU.0.Bj.-Q_qt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11784 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Felix Meyer To: Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 11:01 AM Subject: Re: TMB Kit Available > > The page is now loading correctly, except the image "NEW02.GIF" (check > upper/lower case ?). > YES this was a problem for a shor time until we got all the parts loaded, it should be fine now. If you still see a problem please let us know. If still a problem what browser are you using ? > I have further question abot TMB: > > What happens if you connect 20 cells in serie ? > > Do you obtain steady 1 Volt at 0.5 mA load ? > No! This is currently the unknown with TMB. It does not ramp up like connecting battery cells in series or parallel. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 11:33:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA21008; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:33:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:33:18 -0700 Message-ID: <000701bef896$90424e80$03f3fea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: "Free Energy" Subject: New Associate Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:35:14 -0500 Organization: atgroup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"668L_3.0.685.jZ0rt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11785 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/index.htm NES has lost one of its associates and is looking for a replacement. If you live Houston, or N-Houston and would like to talk about being involved with some of our projects, please send me a private email. Ron. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 11:36:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA22642; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:36:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:36:16 -0700 From: Pepthewep@aol.com Message-ID: <8568fb12.25056379@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:35:37 EDT Subject: Re: STEVEN GIBBS ? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Resent-Message-ID: <"hKG8o3.0.hX5.Wc0rt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11786 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred, Without "crazy" scientists nothing of real consequence would ever be discovered. Crazy scientists throw caution to the wind and say,"why not?" If you stay within the status quo of science, you stop growing and expanding in knowledge. To take a chance is to make great discoveries. You all on this list are "out there". You going to make history some day. Never give up! Barb c. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 13:10:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA11676; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:10:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:10:21 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-2-dyn7.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.102.74.22] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:10:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <052d01bef8a3$1cd79240$454a66d1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: STEVEN GIBBS ? Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:04:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"nYt443.0.Is2.j-1rt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11787 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Barb, Thnaks for the encouraging words. I really do believe it. It helps to have an ego as big as a house too :-) Fred -----Original Message----- From: Pepthewep@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Monday, September 06, 1999 11:37 AM Subject: Re: STEVEN GIBBS ? >Fred, Without "crazy" scientists nothing of real consequence would ever be >discovered. Crazy scientists throw caution to the wind and say,"why not?" >If you stay within the status quo of science, you stop growing and expanding >in knowledge. To take a chance is to make great discoveries. You all on >this list are "out there". You going to make history some day. Never give >up! Barb c. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 13:48:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA20257; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:48:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:48:06 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Hay Barb c. Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 16:55:01 -0400 Message-ID: <19990906205501593.AAA160@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"Ld2Me.0.Ly4.6Y2rt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11788 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I read a report in one of the real paper magazines that >covers Internet and it said today (then) email was only >about 70% reliable on a global scale, and its reliablity was >continuing to fall. I used to get a lot of responses to posts on the various listservs that I read, and then get the original posts a day or two later. This hasn't happened too much recently, but it used to be quite common. I've also actually gotten private, personal e-mail intended for other people that had similar server names. It happens. The internet is far from being totally reliable and certainly will almost never be secure, but it is cheap, and on the whole, very fast. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 14:12:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA26384; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:11:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:11:58 -0700 Message-ID: <37D42E0C.E3A6534F@harti.com> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 23:11:40 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , daveem m , Free Energy Subject: Re: Something is obviously wrong with =?iso-8859-1?Q?Newman=B4s?= theory... X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <6238-37D42344-26207@postoffice-161.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"x6LWn.0.9S6.Uu2rt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11789 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: daveem m schrieb: > > Some of Joes theories make sense at first glance, but when you put them > into use, you discover the principles he has left out of his design > concepts. A good example of this is the counter force which acts against > your motor turning when you continue to add additional turns of wire to > your coil. In theory, it sounds like a larger coil would increase the > efficiency of your motor, more atom alignment as Joe would say, but this > is only true to a point. As one who built a small model with about 70 > pounds of wire, I was very disappointed to see what happened when I > continued to add more amp turns of wire to my coil, and my motors > armature kept slowing down, I had to wonder, how am I ever going to come > out with greater output power when this counter force prevents my motor > from turning at a speed fast enough to produce excess energy. and no > change of timing made any difference. If it were not for this counter > force, his theories would make perfect sense. Exactly ! The Lenz law in this case generates the counter force as the back EMF is produced while rotor is turning, thus the Newman coils only see the small DIFFERENCE VOLTAGE ! I still don't know what to > think of his early models which showed an increase in battery voltage > while his motors ran, one possibility I have pondered came to mind when > I was at a battery store and saw some small devices which were able to > restore batteries by sending high frequency low current pulses into > them. Considering the negative and positive oscillations which result > from Joes motors as they run, it seemed like this could produce much of > the same effect. This was due to the large arcing on the commuator and is more a Correa and Chernetski type overunity plasma effect while arcing takes place ! Newman did never explain or understand this and his gyroscopic theory could not cover this topic. That is why he missed the real effect behind his motors ! >I also considered something I learned as a young man. I > remember being told I could get more life out of my dead AA batteries if > I put them in the oven at a low temperature for a couple of hours, and > it worked. In light of this, I have often considered the magnitude of > heat which must be generated from the back spike on Joes motors, and > wondered if it was possibly a good explanation as to how his very weak > batteries would show a greater charge after use. I am pretty much convinced, that his first 2 or 3 machines (at least the ones with at least 70 Kg of Copper or more) were producing ELECTRICAL overunity power coming from the commutator arcing ! (Maybe there just takes a chemical reaction place by oxidating the commutator contacts and converting the chemical energy to electrical energy via the arcing !) I have seen too much evidence for this and all the tests of the engineers which Newman provided just ignore the commutator chemical oxidation arcing effect. With my arcing tests I have seen, that it really depends on the commutator material, if there is a negative back current spike or not. >I really don't know > what to think for sure, but the present status of Joes tests are not > designed to reveal the truth. The true test of output can be done > simply. Yes, he just have to provide the answer about the DC supply voltage in that late 100 LBS weight lifting experiment. Regards, Stefan. > Dave Maltz > > Dave's Alternative Energy. > http://www.homezen.com/powersys.html, > > Amazing 3700 hour white LED flashlights! > http://www.homezen.com/powersys/minilite.htm -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 14:28:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA30142; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:28:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:28:32 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <3d463672.25058bf8@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 17:28:24 EDT Subject: Eclipse/Gravity /Pendulum results? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Resent-Message-ID: <"6moP12.0.sM7._73rt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11790 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This may be slightly off topic, but has anyone heard the results of the recent pendulum experiments during the total eclipse? I've found lots of posts in some of the newsgroups, but nothing really definite. Thanks, Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 14:44:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA02897; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:43:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:43:50 -0700 Message-ID: <37D41B8E.A7D8A654@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 14:52:46 -0500 From: Don Adams Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New Curve Makes Life Predictable References: <152b9271.2503c93a@aol.com> <37D2799B.7BC0307@ihug.co.nz> <37D3446C.38F5CB7@mail.admiral.ru> <37D34954.95E5E4D2@telusplanet.net> <37D36805.25E70BF9@mail.pc.centuryinter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2k1HF.0.3j.LM3rt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11791 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry, I believe that was all I got..... Taylor J. Smith wrote: > Don Adams wrote: > > > > By Michael Peel > > http://www.ft.com/hippocampus/q14ae5a.htm > > 9-6-99 > > Hi Don, > > I went to the link and found the article and a > related article, but no url's. I was wondering > if you had any. > > Jack Smith -- *********************************************************** Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just... let it happen. -- Special Agent Dale Cooper ... ====================================================================== Don J.S. Adams, Overseer and Registered Agent for Domhnall C G N Adams - (Corporation Sole - Lawful Entity Name) RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 17:12:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA03280; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 17:12:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 17:12:03 -0700 Message-ID: <005201bef8c5$b2704320$92c41bca@rae> From: "Stuart Rae" To: "FREENRG-L" , "Harvey Norris" References: <936422752.5192.644@excite.com> <37D35868.D6F5613C@harti.com> Subject: Re: Neons Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:10:59 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004D_01BEF92A.0C1814C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"rO_TG2.0.5p.JX5rt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11792 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BEF92A.0C1814C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan said: > > Hi Harvey......................(snip) >=20 > .................Try to write shorter emails and learn how to scan = schematics > and put them onto a web site. >=20 or perhaps a touch of ASCII art on occasion? But then Harvey's posts = are always lucid, always interesting, and always thought provoking. > > Then the people will listen to you... >=20 Frankly, Harvey's posts are some of the first I read, and only rarely do = they ever end up in the "Trash Can". > > Your email posts are just too long ! >=20 > Nobody has time to read them all through... > Please don't cut them down any on my account Harvey......... In this = difficult business, thoughtful, detailed and clear explanations are = always appreciated.. By the way, have a very happy birthday. Regards, SR -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- S. N. Rae, Blenheim, =20 New Zealand. srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BEF92A.0C1814C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Stefan said:
 
>
> Hi Harvey......................(snip)
> =
>=20 .................Try to write shorter emails and learn how to scan=20 schematics
> and put them onto a web site.
>
 
or perhaps a touch of ASCII art on = occasion?  But=20 then Harvey's posts are always lucid, always interesting, and = always=20 thought provoking.
 
>
> Then the people will listen to = you...
>=20
 
Frankly, Harvey's posts are some of the=20 first I read, and only rarely do they ever end = up in=20 the "Trash Can".
 
>
> Your email posts are just too long = !
>=20
> Nobody has time to read them all = through...
>
 
Please don't cut them down any on my account = Harvey.........=20 In this difficult business, thoughtful, detailed and clear explanations = are=20 always appreciated..
 
By the way, have a very happy birthday.
 
Regards,
 
SR
S. N. = Rae,
Blenheim,     
New=20 Zealand.
srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz
------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BEF92A.0C1814C0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 19:57:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA02392; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:57:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:57:07 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990906230056.00b253c0@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 23:00:56 -0700 To: Mark Goldes From: Quinney Subject: RE: EST. The power storage breakthrough. Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <388428168.936637528458.JavaMail.root@web01_mc.iname.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"WCFiB.0.Fb.2y7rt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11793 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Mark, and All; Sorry about all the cross posting. This will be the last of that. At 01:05 PM 09/06/99 -0400, you wrote: > >A review of the Seward paper both here and by a well respected researcher >that many of you know and who would probably prefer that his name not be >used, does not offer much optimism that it can actually achieve the promised >performance or anything remotely close. > I have so far spoken with only 2 scientists [both respected researchers] about this, and one of them (on Vortex) does completely agree with you. The other one is also doubtful about the high claims but he is also displaying a sort-of optimistic curiosity. >It would be nice to see evidence of long runs and really useful energy >storage. I agree. To-date, they have reported only a 600 ms duration with the ~1 cm. diameter plasma toroids. I must assume that their higher energy, larger diameter scale-ups will result in longer durations. > >The paper strikes both reviewers as heavy on hype and light on really solid >work. Are you referring to your review of the 26 page NIAC CP 98-01 Final Report from Clint Seward, (yes-- some hyping there from the inventor.) or to the 80 page report from Dr Chen and Dr Temkin of the MIT Plasma Science and Fusion Center? I have not yet read that 80 page report. I expect to see some kind of meat in it. > >Evidence to the contrary (i.e. emphatically not speculation, but real >experiments, that can be reproduced by other labs) would be most welcome. > >Mark Goldes I completely agree with that, Mark and that's why I'm drawing attention to this. Seward is keeping the process as proprietary, but I somehow doubt that these plasma rings are really all that difficult to replicate. I may have been taken in with some of his alleged hype-- but I have concluded that stable plasmas of the toroid configuration can be made in the lab and Clint Seward of Electron Power Systems, Inc. has been seriously researching them as energy storage devices. To-date he has received 4 patents. He has also received funding from several government agencies, including NASA. Yes-- the ~1 cm plasma toroid reportedly lasts only up to 600 ms. but a 2.5 cm toroid is presently being attempted and they really seem to believe that it can be scaled up. They've certainly convinced the scientists working for the organizations who are funding them. The rewards of a plasma storage ring could be quite useful. I wonder if some of us could not attempt to build one of these stable plasma toroids in a vacuum jar in a microwave just for fun. Forget the 1500 Amp, 500 Volt batteries-- a capacitive discharge arc, resulting from an exploding toroid [poloid?] coil could create the high Tesla magnetic field necessary for initiation AND the material for the plasma. A video camera can record the results. We could have a contest to see who could achieve the longest stable toroid shaped plasmas. Those of us who enjoyed making the so-called "ball lightnings" in our microwaves or the "smoke ring" generators with old coffee cans would enjoy these kinds of experiments. I managed to set mine on fire. The edge of "Dennis" has just arrived up here in Toronto, and the lightnings are flashing. Best Colin Quinney From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 20:11:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA07214; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:10:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:10:34 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: working y2k generator plans Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 03:08:23 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <37d8710e.359778556@mail.midiowa.net> References: <006001beefff$f8bd3140$85b6bfd1@Pfepps> <37C59D92.B87CCBB8@csi.com> <37C5E095.521F9F2E@telusplanet.net> <37D35C72.470BAED1@sprynet.com> In-Reply-To: <37D35C72.470BAED1@sprynet.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA07186 Resent-Message-ID: <"4TSKK1.0.Ym1.g88rt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11794 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Eric, On Sun, 05 Sep 1999 23:17:23 -0700, Eric Tonkins wrote: >I know the internet must have tons of FREE do-it-yourself plans for electric >generation and storage. I'm tired chasing down dead end internet searches. Anyone >know of a internet clearing house for simple home-built generators and storage devices >and their plans? (Preferably Human Powered!) Even a point in the right direction >would help. Any ideas? Thanks, Eric Forget human powered for anything except equipment you can run off 2 AA batteries. Too little power from most humans and too much conversion loss. Electric generation is simple. Take any induction/squirrel-cage motor (sized to the output power you need), parallel the leads with 100 uf to 200 uf, 300 v capacitors, and turn the shaft at about 10% above the rated motor speed. Voila, electric power. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 20:12:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA07891; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:11:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:11:44 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-6-dyn48.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.102.74.159] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:11:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <05ce01bef8dd$fb41b1c0$454a66d1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Re: Sparks are flying!!! Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:06:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"vzEOf.0.Bx1.m98rt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11795 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bill, Some interesting ideas. You've by no means covered all the spark overunity references in the literature. You've proably seen most of these but: Pappas and Dragone reported overunity in arcs. Their device was similar to the early work of Chernetskii, and Frolov has also replicated this. Graneau and others report anomalous energy release in arcs in water-- more than can be explaioned by their own ampere forces theories. Graneau is attempting to build a piston motor using these forces. Rowe reported formation of elements in arcs, replicating experiments by JJ Thompson and several others. Various cold fusion researchers also showed transmutation in spark discharges. Roentgen reported excess energy in discharges in "active Nitrogen". Several researchers observed anomalous pressures on cathodes in arcs. The Correas showed overunity in certain discharge regimes. This is by no means an exhaustive list. In my opinion if plasmas and arcs were as easy to handle and understand as permanent magnets we would have free energy already. > >Maybe I'm a little dense, but, I keep coming back to a common thread in >many of these OU devices, the spark. I've brought this up before but it >didn't go anywhere. So have I with the same result. The reason being that few, including me, have the knowledge or equipment to do this kind of research. > >But recently: > Stephan Hartmann in his inquires about spark gap oxidation > generated electricity (back spikes). > > And, Henry Curtis's note about Santilli's work. > >So I thought I'd give it another try. > >We have the two ideas presented > >1) Stephan Hartmann's idea about a simple chemical reaction going on in the >spark gap that has as a by-product some extra electrons. > >2) In Santilli's data oxygen is combining with several different low >molecular weight elements including carbon to form higher atomic weight >elements with the liberation of energy in commercial quantities. This sounds a bit like the transmutation of carbon to iron in a simple arc described by Kushi and replicated many times by many people. I have seen it myself at Bill B's science meeting. Where can Santilli's data be found? > >Let me add 3 more off the wall conjectures. > >3) Remember when Stephan brought up the subject of air entrainment when he >blew into a tube with a 1 inch gap between his mouth and the tube, how he >got significantly more air volume than when his mouth was directly against >the end of the tube. Couldn't something similar be going on with electrons >in a spark gap. Maybe as the spark jumps the gap through the air it is >entraining excess atmospheric electrons/ions to add too the expected amount >of flow. (Yah, I know it's kind of a stretch, but what the hey!) This is similar to Aspden's theories about what is going on with the anomalous arc pressures. The ions and electrons may have similar charges but they have vastly different masses. Aspden feels that the electrodynamic force law is incomplete without including the mass of the charged particles, and that when you do you can get these unusual forces. This is also his explanation of the Graneau water arc anomalies. Pappas believes that the Ampere electrodynamic law allows for regimes at high velocities ( >.7C) where magnetic forces overcome electrostatic repulsion in the discharge and allow for an anti-entropic collection of charge against the potential gradient (as best as I can explain it). > >4) A spark gap could be considered at different moments a capacitor & a >resistor. A capacitor in that two conductive surfaces separated by a >dielectric (air) with one side connected to a charge, and the other to >ground (or whatever). A resistor in that it conducts electricity from one >point to another converting some electrons into other forms of energy in >the transfer (heat, light). I've even seen it referred to as negative >resistance? Yes, I think the high field present just before discharge is important for these effects as I will explain in my speculation shortly. > >Consider, in a commutator type spark gap you have two plates in proximity >to each other, one with a charge. As the commutator turns these plates are >pulled apart in distance thus converting mechanical energy into electrical. >Thus momentarily the charged plate has more energy than it was initially >given (back spike?). Then as the charge grows from being stretched it >reaches a critical level where the dielectric properties of the air fail >and the charge jumps across as a spark. That is interesting, I hadn't seen parametric considerations brought into discharges before. But wouldn't the discharge occur as the plates were closest to alignment, and thus when the stored energy was at its lowest point? And isn't the spark too short to be affected by changing C since that happens in a much longer time frame relative to the time of the arc? > >Consider also that the spark forms as the conductors are pulled apart, not >so much as when the conductors are brought together as the resistance of >the dielectric decreases. Huh, I didn't know that. I always assumed the other way around. Perhaps the reverse would apply, as the plates >of a capacitor get closer the charge decreases. The attraction of opposite >charges pull the plates closer converting electrical energy into mechanical >energy. Right. >Thus Newman's battery provides the initial charge, then the mechanical >energy of the commutator is converted to electricity and fed back to the >battery. I think this may also apply to Zaev's system. This would not >apply to a fixed gap spark plug type situation. (Yah, I know this is also >a stretch {pun intended ;^} ) Well if you look at the commutator as a parametric generator it is an exceedingly inefficient one. For instance th Ferdnand Cap device which is a rotating parametric ES power generator requires many plates to get any real energy gain from rotation. And of course this energy is being supplied by the rotation. > >Question: Has the energy involved in turning the commutator been properly >accounted for in the overall system? In Jean-louis's self-running Newman replication this would not be a factor since the energy to turn the commutator is coming from the rotating magnet. > >And last, in the off the wall category..... > >5) Tom Bearden's papers indicate that any capacitor is a ZPE gateway, No problem with that, I think everything is a ZPE gateway :-).. though I dont believe in ZPE in the standard sense, I would call it spin energy. the >problem is getting it to stay open to a ZPE energy flow. There may be a >connection here. If the commutator spark gap can be considered a >capacitor, perhaps during the dynamics of the changing capacitive >conductive values involved, the conditions are momentarily right to allow >a brief ZPE energy flow to add to the energy of the system. > Now her is where my speculation comes in. Robert Stirniman has commented on the work of Jin Liu in his electrogravitic papers. I refer you to http://www.padrak.com/ine/RS_REF3.html top of the page. In part he says: One interesting prediction of Liu's theory is that electromagnetic potential will result in time dilation. He doesn't appear to be aware that there is already experimental evidence that this occurs. See references to inventions and experiments by people such as Saxl, Barker, and Keller, which demonstrate time dilation in an electric potential. Time dilation can be viewed equivalently as a shift in wavelength. Liu wishes for someone to conduct an experiment to test for a change in wavelength by using a quantum interferometer. A fine idea. But what about those experimenters who have already measured this effect with a clock? Also see a variety of references here to theories and experiments which relate the scalar electric potential to the gravitational field, and time dilation is a well know, and experimentally verified, prediction of general relativity. I also have a paper that predicts from other considerations an effect on the time rate due to an electric field. Thus a laser beam would change frequency slightly in a field. And there is also the work of Leon Sprink in France who observed many strange effects from HV DC fields maintained over a period of time. These effects can be partially accounted for by time alterations I think. In the time before arcing you have no current and thus no magnetic field. Al lthe nergy is in the form of potential. At the moment of the arc the potential field rapidly converts into a magnetic field as a result of the formation of current. Is it possible that the presence of the high potential field before the arc, and its absence during the arc, creates an overunity measurement in the instruments outside the time alteration effect? Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 20:54:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA18909 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:54:24 -0700 Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:54:24 -0700 X-Envelope-From: mg3545@mail.com Mon Sep 6 20:54:23 1999 Received: from rmx01.mail.com (rmx01.mail.com [165.251.48.150]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA18768; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:54:22 -0700 Received: from web02.pub01 (web02.pub01.mail.com [165.251.32.11]) by rmx01.mail.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA03637; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 23:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <390334025.936676461322.JavaMail.root@web02.pub01> Old-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 23:54:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Goldes To: Quinney Subject: RE: RE: EST. The power storage breakthrough. Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: mail.com X-Originating-IP: 207.44.219.219 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: ------Original Message------ From: Quinney To: Mark Goldes Sent: September 7, 1999 6:00:56 AM GMT Subject: RE: EST. The power storage breakthrough. Hi Mark, and All; Sorry about all the cross posting. This will be the last of that. At 01:05 PM 09/06/99 -0400, you wrote: > >A review of the Seward paper both here and by a well respected researcher >that many of you know and who would probably prefer that his name not be >used, does not offer much optimism that it can actually achieve the promised >performance or anything remotely close. > I have so far spoken with only 2 scientists [both respected researchers] about this, and one of them (on Vortex) does completely agree with you. The other one is also doubtful about the high claims but he is also displaying a sort-of optimistic curiosity. >It would be nice to see evidence of long runs and really useful energy >storage. I agree. To-date, they have reported only a 600 ms duration with the ~1 cm. diameter plasma toroids. I must assume that their higher energy, larger diameter scale-ups will result in longer durations. > >The paper strikes both reviewers as heavy on hype and light on really solid >work. Are you referring to your review of the 26 page NIAC CP 98-01 Final Report from Clint Seward, (yes-- some hyping there from the inventor.) or to the 80 page report from Dr Chen and Dr Temkin of the MIT Plasma Science and Fusion Center? I have not yet read that 80 page report. I expect to see some kind of meat in it. > >Evidence to the contrary (i.e. emphatically not speculation, but real >experiments, that can be reproduced by other labs) would be most welcome. > >Mark Goldes I completely agree with that, Mark and that's why I'm drawing attention to this. Seward is keeping the process as proprietary, but I somehow doubt that these plasma rings are really all that difficult to replicate. I may have been taken in with some of his alleged hype-- but I have concluded that stable plasmas of the toroid configuration can be made in the lab and Clint Seward of Electron Power Systems, Inc. has been seriously researching them as energy storage devices. To-date he has received 4 patents. He has also received funding from several government agencies, including NASA. Yes-- the ~1 cm plasma toroid reportedly lasts only up to 600 ms. but a 2.5 cm toroid is presently being attempted and they really seem to believe that it can be scaled up. They've certainly convinced the scientists working for the organizations who are funding them. The rewards of a plasma storage ring could be quite useful. I wonder if some of us could not attempt to build one of these stable plasma toroids in a vacuum jar in a microwave just for fun. Forget the 1500 Amp, 500 Volt batteries-- a capacitive discharge arc, resulting from an exploding toroid [poloid?] coil could create the high Tesla magnetic field necessary for initiation AND the material for the plasma. A video camera can record the results. We could have a contest to see who could achieve the longest stable toroid shaped plasmas. Those of us who enjoyed making the so-called "ball lightnings" in our microwaves or the "smoke ring" generators with old coffee cans would enjoy these kinds of experiments. I managed to set mine on fire. The edge of "Dennis" has just arrived up here in Toronto, and the lightnings are flashing. Best Colin Quinney Colin and Vo, Inventors rarely disbelieve what they are attempting cannot be accomplished. On balance, that's undoubtedly a good thing! These claims must be proven experimentally. It is of much less importance what theoreticians may believe. Meat consists of replicable experiments - not theory. As an examplke, consider that there are more than 50 theories competing to explain superconductivity in metal oxides. The only area of complete agreement is that they do indeed superconduct. Good luck to all who attempt the experiments... Mark Goldes __________________________________________________ FREE Email for ALL! Sign up at http://www.mail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 21:51:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA00895; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:51:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:51:30 -0700 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:49:17 -0700 Subject: (off topic) NSA Builds Security Access Into Windows Message-ID: <19990906.204926.-351147.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3,5-6,8-27,29,31-33,35,37-38,40,42-44,46,48-49,51,53-55,57,59,61,63,65,67,69-71,73,75,77,79,81-83,85,87,89-90,92,94-97,99-101,103-105,107-111,113,115,117-118,120,122-124,126,128,130,132-135,137,139,141-143,145,147,149-151,153,155-1 Status: O X-Status: 56,158-160,162-164,166,168,170,172,174-199,201,203-205,207-209,211,213,215-218,220,222-227,229-231,233-235,237-239,241,243,245-249,251-253,255,257-259,261-265,267,269,271-273,275-276,278-279,281-283,285,287,289-290,292-294,296-301,303,305,307-312,314,316- 317,319,321-323,325-328,330-333,335,337-340,342-354,356,358-360,362,364,366-368,370,372,374-376,378,380-382,384,386,388,390-391,393-395,397-404,406,408-411,413-416,418-419,421-425,427-430 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Tom Vaughn Resent-Message-ID: <"5yKpT3.0.XD.Hd9rt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11796 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Pretty sneaky, eh ? By the way, if your interested in trying to preserve what vestiges of privacy and freedom we have left, you might consider subscribing to the "Scan This News" list. I think this may be of interest to energy researchers since they are probably carefully monitored by big brother. Tim ====================================================================== SCAN THIS NEWS 9/4/99 [Three articles on Microsoft Windows hidden government-access keys] ====================================================================== NSA Builds Security Access Into Windows http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19990903S0014 (09/03/99 By Duncan Campbell, TechWeb A careless mistake by Microsoft programmers has shown that special access codes for use by the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) have been secretly built into ALL VERSIONS OF THE WINDOWS OPERATING SYSTEM. Computer-security specialists have been aware for two years that unusual features are contained inside a standard Windows driver used for security and encryption functions. The driver, called ADVAPI.DLL, enables and controls a range of security functions including the Microsoft Cryptographic API (MS-CAPI). In particular, it authenticates modules signed by Microsoft, letting them run without user intervention. At last year's Crypto 98 conference, British cryptography specialist Nicko van Someren said he had disassembled the driver and found it contained two different keys. One was used by Microsoft to control the cryptographic functions enabled in Windows, in compliance with U.S. export regulations. But the reason for building in a second key, or who owned it, remained a mystery. Now, a North Carolina security company has come up with conclusive evidence the second key belongs to the NSA. Like van Someren, Andrew Fernandez, chief scientist with Cryptonym of Morrisville, North Carolina, had been probing the presence and significance of the two keys. Then he checked the latest Service Pack release for Windows NT4, Service Pack 5. He found Microsoft's developers had failed to remove or "strip" the debugging symbols used to test this software before they released it. Inside the code were the labels for the two keys. One was called "KEY." The other was called "NSAKEY." Fernandez reported his re-discovery of the two CAPI keys, and their secret meaning, to the "Advances in Cryptology, Crypto'99" conference held in Santa Barbara. According to those present at the conference, Windows developers attending the conference did not deny the "NSA" key was built into their software. But they refused to talk about what the key did, or why it had been put there without users' knowledge. But according to two witnesses attending the conference, even Microsoft's top crypto programmers were stunned to learn that the version of ADVAPI.DLL shipping with Windows 2000 contains not two, but three keys. Brian LaMachia, head of CAPI development at Microsoft was "stunned" to learn of these discoveries, by outsiders. This discovery, by van Someren, was based on advance search methods which test and report on the "entropy" of programming code. Within Microsoft, access to Windows source code is said to be highly compartmentalized, making it easy for modifications to be inserted without the knowledge of even the respective product managers. No researchers have yet discovered a programming module which signs itself with the NSA key. Researchers are divided about whether it might be intended to let U.S. government users of Windows run classified cryptosystems on their machines or whether it is intended to open up anyone's and everyone's Windows computer to intelligence gathering techniques deployed by the NSA's burgeoning corps of "information warriors." According to Fernandez of Cryptonym, the result of having the secret key inside your Windows operating system "is that it is tremendously easier for the NSA to load unauthorized security services on all copies of Microsoft Windows, and once these security services are loaded, they can effectively compromise your entire operating system". The NSA key is contained inside all versions of Windows from Windows 95 OSR2 onward. "For non-American IT managers relying on WinNT to operate highly secure data centers, this find is worrying," he added. "The U.S government is currently making it as difficult as possible for 'strong' crypto to be used outside of the U.S. That they have also installed a cryptographic back-door in the world's most abundant operating system should send a strong message to foreign IT managers. "How is an IT manager to feel when they learn that in every copy of Windows sold, Microsoft has installed a 'back door' for the NSA -- making it orders of magnitude easier for the U.S. government to access your computer?" he said. Van Someren said he felt the primary purpose of the NSA key might be for legitimate U.S. government use. But he said there cannot be a legitimate explanation for the third key in Windows 2000 CAPI. "It looks more fishy," he said on Friday. Fernandez said he believed the NSA's built-in loophole could be turned round against the snoopers. The NSA key inside CAPI could be replaced by your own key, and used to sign cryptographic security modules from overseas or unauthorized third parties, unapproved by Microsoft or the NSA. This is exactly what the U.S. government has been trying to prevent. A demonstration "how to do it" program that replaces the NSA key can be found on Cryptonym's website. According to one leading U.S. cryptographer, the IT world should be thankful the subversion of Windows by NSA has come to light before the arrival of CPUs that handle encrypted instruction sets. These would make the type of discoveries made this month impossible. "Had the next-generation CPUs with encrypted instruction sets already been deployed, we would have never found out about NSAKEY," he said. ------------------------------------------------------ See also "Microsoft, the NSA, and You" posted at http://www.cryptonym.com/hottopics/msft-nsa.html ------------------------------------------------------ ====================================================== -----Original Message----- From: believer@telepath.com Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 Subject: More on NSA Key: "Mysterious Component" Source: New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/09/biztech/articles/04soft.html September 4, 1999 A Mysterious Component Roils Microsoft By JOHN MARKOFF SAN FRANCISCO -- A cryptographer for a Canadian software firm, dissecting a piece of Microsoft security software, made an unexpected find: an element in the Windows operating system labeled "NSAKey." When his discovery was made known on his company's Web site Friday, it set off a firestorm of Orwellian visions in Internet discussion groups. Was the buried software component, as the cryptographer surmised, a Trojan horse that gave the National Security Agency a hidden back door into the world's computers? Or was it merely a Microsoft programmer's remarkably bad choice of language in a software system designed to protect electronic communications and commerce? Microsoft executives insisted that there was no Big Brother feature in the software. "The big answer is that these charges are completely false," said Scott Culp, a security product manager at Microsoft. And the National Security Agency, which gathers electronic signal intelligence worldwide and is responsible for the security of the Government's computers, issued a terse three-sentence news release distancing itself from the controversy, saying, "Questions about specific products should be addressed to the company." Microsoft officials acknowledged that the episode was in any case a black eye for the world's largest software publisher. "We're going to pay and pay and pay for this," said one of the company's security experts, who spoke on the grounds that he not be identified. In recent months Microsoft has become a lightning rod for criticism of its products' security and has had to deal with several gaffes, including the discovery last week of a security flaw that exposed the e-mail of users of its Hotmail service. The latest uproar was set off by Andrew Fernandes, a mathematician in Research Triangle Park, N.C., who is chief scientist of the Cryptonym Corporation, a small Canadian software firm that is developing computer security products. Fernandes first presented his findings at a technical meeting last month in Southern California, but word did not spread more broadly until today, when a news release was posted on the Cryptonym Web site. In a telephone interview, Fernandes said he had made his discovery while exploring and trying to replicate the security software in Microsoft's Windows and Windows NT operating systems. The operating systems make use of a key -- a large number -- to authenticate software components, providing confidence that a component is correctly identified and has not been tampered with. For example, when new encryption functions are added for security, the key verifies that they comply with Government regulations. Cryptographers had previously noted the existence of a second key whose use they could not account for. What Fernandes found in the program was an identifying tag, disguised in earlier versions. And the label was "NSAKey." The discovery shocked him, Fernandes said, adding, "It doesn't make any sense why they would put in a second key." He concluded that the key represented a serious security flaw that would leave Microsoft's operating system vulnerable to intrusion. "The result is that it is tremendously easier for the N.S.A. to load unauthorized security services on all copies of Microsoft Windows, and once these security services are loaded, they can effectively compromise your entire operating system," his news release asserted. But at Microsoft, Culp said the key labeled NSAKey was a backup permitting Microsoft to authenticate encryption components if the first key was damaged. And he said the name was simply unfortunate. Because the key insures compliance with Federal export laws, and the National Security Agency is the authority responsible for reviewing software and hardware products intended for foreign use, the component has been referred to colloquially at Microsoft as the "NSA key," he said. But Culp insisted that the key was not shared with any outside party, including the N.S.A. "We protect it with dobermans and barbed wire," he said. "Conspiracy theorists are worked up about this, but real life is more boring." Security and privacy experts were generally skeptical about the notion that Microsoft was cooperating with the nation's electronic intelligence agency. Microsoft has vocally opposed proposals by law-enforcement and intelligence agencies that would give them electronic back doors to monitor computer data. Some security experts said that even if there was no sinister explanation for the NSAKey, Microsoft should not add components to its security software system without publicly identifying them. "They've debased their currency once again by not disclosing this," said Mark Seiden, chief consultant for the information security group Kroll-Ogara. Microsoft executives said there had been no reason to publicize the backup key. "It was not something that anyone had expressed any interest in," Culp said. And in any case, the Big Brother that Fernandes said he had discovered turned out to have an Achilles heel. He said he had been able to develop a small program that strips out the second key. Copyright 1999 The New York Times Company ======================================== Crypto expert: Microsoft products leave door open to NSA http://cnn.com/TECH/computing/9909/03/windows.nsa/ September 3, 1999 (CNN) -- A cryptography expert says that Microsoft operating systems include a back door that allows the National Security Agency to enter systems using one of the operating system versions. The chief scientist at an Internet security company reported the flaw at a recent conference in Santa Barbara where he discussed a "key" entrance into the cryptographic standard used in Microsoft Windows products. That includes Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows NT4 and Windows2000. "It turns out that there are really two keys used by Windows; the first belongs to Microsoft, and it allows them to securely load (the cryptography services)," said Andrew Fernandes in a press release. Fernandes works for Cryptonym, a company based in Ontario. The press release states "the second belongs to the NSA. That means that the NSA can also securely load (the services) on your machine, and without your authorization." The discovery "highly suggests" that the NSA has a key it could use to enter encrypted items on anybody's Windows operating system, said Ian Goldberg, chief scientist at Zero-Knowledge Systems. Goldberg was among a few dozen people in the audience at the conference when Fernandes dropped his bomb. The session occurred just before midnight so no one saw it coming, he said, but the audience was shocked. "If you're trying to keep messages private, it's possible that they are not as private as you thought they were," Goldberg said. Zero-Knowledge Systems is about to release a security product built specially to make such security flaws impossible, he said. Microsoft was not immediately available for comment. It is unclear why or if Microsoft cooperated with the NSA on the key to its "CryptoAPI," the standard interface to its cryptography services, Goldberg said. [end forwarded articles] ======================================================================= Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. ======================================================================= Reply to: ======================================================================= To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml ======================================================================= From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 22:40:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA10578; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 22:40:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 22:40:20 -0700 From: MATTIARO@aol.com Message-ID: <59221739.2505ff1b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 01:39:39 EDT Subject: Re: Sparks are flying!!! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"j6Qgx2.0.Ab2.4LArt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11797 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all. One of the things that we have to remember, is that even if the spark does create a nuclear reaction that liberates energy, it still is NOT an over unity phenomena. And if there is an observed time differential in the spark at 0.7 C, your clocks are way more accurate than mine. :-) Keep plucking up. :-) Matti From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 22:58:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA14418; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 22:58:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 22:58:15 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-2-dyn32.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.102.74.47] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 22:58:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <05fd01bef8f5$3fe68320$454a66d1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Sparks are flying!!! Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 22:53:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"xiCKJ.0.6X3.tbArt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11798 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Matti, > > One of the things that we have to remember, is that even if the spark does >create a nuclear reaction that liberates energy, it still is NOT an over >unity phenomena. Of course, it depends on your definition. It does not violate so-called "conservation of energy law", but that law is a tautology since every time a new energy source is found the law is extended to cover it. Since the law is tautological it is a non-law in my opinion. It does not predict behavior except when it does, which is not very useful ultimately. Where is a closed system? > > And if there is an observed time differential in the spark at 0.7 C, your >clocks are way more accurate than mine. :-) I think you are mixing up two different things. Pappas and Dragone observed overunity-- or if you prefer a new source of energy-- in real sparks, and theorized that they came from the .7C effects. The time effects from ES fields are relatively large scale and have been observed by Barker, Sprink and others. > > Keep plucking up. :-) I hope thats a good thing :-) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 02:02:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA07919; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 02:01:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 02:01:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 02:01:48 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: The Altruism Virus Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"XiLfV.0.ax1.0IDrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11799 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: WARNING! If you read this message you will be meta-infected by the Altruism Memetic Plague, and you will be able to meta-infect others. Note that if you help a needy person (in the way that the virus directs) only then will you trigger an *actual* infection. I will give you this (college degree, house, career, $1000, etc.) but you must agree to become indebted. Here's how to repay the debt. As soon as possible but before the end of your life, you must find two or more other parties who are as needy as you yourself are right now, and you must give to them a (college degree, house, career, $1000, etc.) equivalant to the one I am about to give to you, and you must also bind them to this same agreement. The above was passed to me. It's an inverse-chain letter! Or more like a forest fire that will un-burn the entire world. Please pass it along. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 07:50:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA32076; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 07:49:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 07:49:45 -0700 Message-ID: <000701bef940$800cd3a0$1492fea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: "Free Energy" Subject: TMB Gains. Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 09:51:41 -0500 Organization: N.E.S. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"5kJld1.0.5r7.9OIrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11800 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Can TMB's electrolyze water as they produce power ? Can TMB output be used to electrolyze the same water that appears to supply it power ? New information on TMB's may open new energy sources. Nu-Energy Systems Conquest is the beginning, enjoying the win is the real battle. http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 08:14:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA06198; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 08:13:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 08:13:48 -0700 Message-ID: <37D52BB1.61609427@ihug.co.nz> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 03:13:54 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Altruism Virus References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CP2bC2.0.lW1.ikIrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11801 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Only one question, who is giving away the free $1000? I guess it's meant to start with the reader huh, I guess the only problem is there are more people who could do with the gift than people willing to start giving. Maybe on a smaller scale though, I'd love to borrow $1000 dollars, but could lend a smaller amount myself. So who's going to start this roller coaster? If the amount was small then it could grow much faster, it could also be expanded to three or four people. Nice Idea, thanks for the subject... William Beaty wrote: > WARNING! If you read this message you will be meta-infected by the > Altruism Memetic Plague, and you will be able to meta-infect others. Note > that if you help a needy person (in the way that the virus directs) only > then will you trigger an *actual* infection. > > I will give you this (college degree, house, career, $1000, etc.) but > you must agree to become indebted. Here's how to repay the debt. As > soon as possible but before the end of your life, you must find two or > more other parties who are as needy as you yourself are right now, and > you must give to them a (college degree, house, career, $1000, etc.) > equivalant to the one I am about to give to you, and you must also bind > them to this same agreement. > > The above was passed to me. It's an inverse-chain letter! Or more like a > forest fire that will un-burn the entire world. Please pass it along. > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 10:04:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA05858; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:03:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:03:57 -0700 From: "Martin" To: Subject: Re: STEVEN GIBBS ? Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:16:05 +0200 Message-ID: <01bef94c$493826c0$LocalHost@Martin.icon.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ep9wM3.0.MR1.zLKrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11802 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Thanks, words of inspiration. Every time I think I am going to give up alternative research, I think of the Wright brothers and realise the accomplished what was then thought to be impossible. I do however feel that human kind is limiting it's own growth by its own actions and the refusal to examine new things. Regards Martin http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/ _______________________________________________ We have enough gun control. What we need is idiot and criminal control. _______________________________________________ >Fred, Without "crazy" scientists nothing of real consequence would ever be >discovered. Crazy scientists throw caution to the wind and say,"why not?" >If you stay within the status quo of science, you stop growing and expanding >in knowledge. To take a chance is to make great discoveries. You all on >this list are "out there". You going to make history some day. Never give >up! Barb c. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 10:32:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA15975; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:32:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:32:26 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:31:31 EDT Subject: The PFT Motor mk1, Towards Free Energy ?... To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 166 Resent-Message-ID: <"JNQ3F3.0.Wv3.fmKrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11803 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear All, I have updated my web site with a new interesting device : The PFT Motor mk1 uses two asymmetrical capacitors for generating a continuous rotation of the rotor at high speed. The rotor is composed of a dielectric ( a common plastic ) cylinder with an aluminum sheet fixed in the inner surface, this is the rotating armature of the cylinder capacitor. Two steel balls with the same diameter than the dielectric cylinder have been used as the fixed armature of the capacitor. The PFT Motor mk1 needs very weak current ( 200 RPM with only 5 micro-Ampere !!, it is also able to turn at a higher speed ( up to 1370 RPM with only 20 micro-A...). This motor can be powered from atmospheric electricity by means of a simple earth field antenna or a small electrostatic generator. The PFT Motor mk1 has no brushes and it can run for a long time. The PFT Motor mk1 concept will be soon used in a new PFT spacecraft engine design. You will find all pictures and diagrams at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/pftm1.htm Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 11:23:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA04223; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:23:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:23:13 -0700 Message-ID: <37D55758.4D928DFE@mail.admiral.ru> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 22:20:08 +0400 From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Reply-To: frolov@mail.admiral.ru Organization: Home Lab X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The PFT Motor mk1, Towards Free Energy ?... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rRy082.0.o11.GWLrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11804 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, Good motor! I know the Poynting vector (Umov vector by Russian science) is result from E and H fields vectors. Where is H (magnet) field in your motor? Do you see the difference between Lorentz force vector and Poynting vector? Alexander V. Frolov JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > Dear All, > > I have updated my web site with a new interesting device : > > The PFT Motor mk1 uses two asymmetrical capacitors for generating a > continuous rotation of the rotor at high speed. The rotor is composed of a > dielectric ( a common plastic ) cylinder with an aluminum sheet fixed in the > inner surface, this is the rotating armature of the cylinder capacitor. Two > steel balls with the same diameter than the dielectric cylinder have been > used as the fixed armature of the capacitor. > > The PFT Motor mk1 needs very weak current ( 200 RPM with only 5 micro-Ampere > !!, it is also able to turn at a higher speed ( up to 1370 RPM with only 20 > micro-A...). This motor can be powered from atmospheric electricity by means > of a simple earth field antenna or a small electrostatic generator. The PFT > Motor mk1 has no brushes and it can run for a long time. > > The PFT Motor mk1 concept will be soon used in a new PFT spacecraft engine > design. > > You will find all pictures and diagrams at : > http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/pftm1.htm > > Best Regards > Jean-Louis Naudin > Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com > Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm -- http://www.time-machine.spb.ru ICQ 43757451 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 12:26:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA25841; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:26:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:26:19 -0700 Message-ID: <37D54CD7.F205A8CC@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 12:35:20 -0500 From: Don Adams Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Neons References: <936422752.5192.644@excite.com> <37D35868.D6F5613C@harti.com> <005201bef8c5$b2704320$92c41bca@rae> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rZysq2.0.gJ6.QRMrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11805 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Happy Birthday HArvey! And I always enjoy your posts too, I for one as well do not think your posts are too long! Cheers Bud! Don Stuart Rae wrote: > Stefan said: >> Hi Harvey......................(snip) > > > > .................Try to write shorter emails and learn how to scan > schematics > > and put them onto a web site. > > or perhaps a touch of ASCII art on occasion? But then Harvey's > posts are always lucid, always interesting, and always thought > provoking. > > > Then the people will listen to you... > > Frankly, Harvey's posts are some of the first I read, and only > rarely do they ever end up in the "Trash Can". > > > Your email posts are just too long ! > > > > Nobody has time to read them all through... > > Please don't cut them down any on my account Harvey......... In this > difficult business, thoughtful, detailed and clear explanations are > always appreciated.. By the way, have a very happy > birthday. Regards, SR > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > S. N. Rae, > Blenheim, > New Zealand. > srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz -- *********************************************************** Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just... let it happen. -- Special Agent Dale Cooper ... ====================================================================== Don J.S. Adams, Overseer and Registered Agent for Domhnall C G N Adams - (Corporation Sole - Lawful Entity Name) RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 13:45:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA18481; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:44:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:44:44 -0700 Message-ID: <000701bef972$174776e0$9180fea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Off Subject! Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:46:41 -0500 Organization: N.E.S. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"qY_av3.0.fW4.yaNrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11806 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Windows is CRAP! A couple of days ago, downloaded W98 Updates and Fixes, AND YES! it fixed me. Ever since almost every application I run will generate an invalid page fault. Great Stuff BILL G. Keep on Truckin. Nu-Energy Systems Conquest is the beginning, enjoying the win is the real battle. http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 14:11:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA26459; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:10:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:10:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:10:47 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: sciclub-list@eskimo.com Subject: Make a solar cell in your kitchen (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"MgB5c2.0.IT6.PzNrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11807 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: see below ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 09:13:30 -0700 From: Simon Quellen Field To: Subject: Make a solar cell in your kitchen in less than an hour from easy to find materials I just finished the solar cell section of my book this weekend. Check out: "http://scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/echem/echem2.html" From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 14:33:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA02003; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:32:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:32:40 -0700 Message-ID: <37D59833.4F3112A8@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 01:56:51 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Off Subject! References: <000701bef972$174776e0$9180fea9@fs11> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pO7UX2.0.5V.tHOrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11808 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: atg0317 wrote: > > Windows is CRAP! Sure! > > A couple of days ago, downloaded W98 Updates and Fixes, AND YES! it fixed > me. This because you need to pay at least $18 for Windows98 SE version supposed be an update. Or as an alternative solution could be to increase the memory by an other 64 megabytes! This typical to windoze. it eat the memory each time you install something. make changes etc. If it possible, remedy is to erase windows (all files belong windows) and install it again. But according to windows no method that i gave above may correct it. you may be damned! :) If this the case, a great sorcerer told me that only way to get off from this sorcery is disassemble the computer completely, distribute every piece to each room in the house and wait until the full moon. Then try to assemble under the moon light only. I f you succeed install windows again, but, when the program ask the product key number, first write 66666-66666-66666-66666-66666. then it is rejected. then write the correct product key in reverse order. then it would be rejected also, and finally write t he number straight-forward carefully. It would be accepted. Now if Gods permits, w98 would be installed and start to work smoothly. Good luck! Force be with you! Note: if this computer is a notebook forget it. buy a new one with w98 on! An other note: While you connect to MS site by windows update, the site gain control on windows registry and it can do anything it wants. If it did a wrong thing (the cause may be you have a program that MS dont like) this may cause of the lockup. hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 16:40:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA03668; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:40:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:40:38 -0700 Message-ID: <37D5A2B7.C260A76C@microtec.net> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 19:41:43 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: TIME !!!!!! References: <05fd01bef8f5$3fe68320$454a66d1@w7o9k8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pDB-X2.0.Dv.q9Qrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11809 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: FRED! Are you saying that they are considering that their overunity is coming from a time differential ? That's what I've always theorised myself. Fred Epps wrote: > Hi Matti, > > > > > One of the things that we have to remember, is that even if the spark > does > >create a nuclear reaction that liberates energy, it still is NOT an over > >unity phenomena. > > Of course, it depends on your definition. It does not violate so-called > "conservation of energy law", but that law is a tautology since every time a > new energy source is found the law is extended to cover it. > Since the law is tautological it is a non-law in my opinion. It does not > predict behavior except when it does, which is not very useful ultimately. > Where is a closed system? > > > > And if there is an observed time differential in the spark at 0.7 C, your > >clocks are way more accurate than mine. :-) > > I think you are mixing up two different things. Pappas and Dragone observed > overunity-- or if you prefer a new source of energy-- in real sparks, and > theorized that they came from the .7C effects. > The time effects from ES fields are relatively large scale and have been > observed by Barker, Sprink and others. > > > > Keep plucking up. :-) > > I hope thats a good thing :-) > > Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 16:44:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA04819; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:43:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:43:57 -0700 Message-ID: <37D5A37E.302B8EAE@microtec.net> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 19:45:03 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Off Subject! References: <000701bef972$174776e0$9180fea9@fs11> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6-YDn3.0.9B1.yCQrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11810 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Oh Yeah ? Well here's a good one: Hotmail.com is a microsoft site and I can't access my email with internet explorer anymore, I have to access it with netscape. Would you imagine, a microsoft web site that is not compatible with a microsoft browser. Maybe I'm just dumb and don't know how to adjust my browser, but they don't specify how to do it either. atg0317 wrote: > Windows is CRAP! > > A couple of days ago, downloaded W98 Updates and Fixes, AND YES! it fixed > me. > > Ever since almost every application I run will generate an invalid page > fault. > > Great Stuff BILL G. Keep on Truckin. > > Nu-Energy Systems > Conquest is the beginning, enjoying the win is the real battle. > http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 18:23:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA06211; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:23:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:23:02 -0700 Message-ID: <37D5BAB5.A4E865FA@microtec.net> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 21:24:05 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Altruism Virus References: <37D52BB1.61609427@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vcWew2.0.yW1.rfRrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11811 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Bill, If you want to help the world, stop kidding yourself and start innovating, then make a company, you will spread your invention to the world and make a lot of people work. Then you can feel happy about yourself for your accomplishment and the pay back is of course the PROFIT$ > William Beaty wrote: > > > WARNING! If you read this message you will be meta-infected by the > > Altruism Memetic Plague, and you will be able to meta-infect others. Note > > that if you help a needy person (in the way that the virus directs) only > > then will you trigger an *actual* infection. > > > > I will give you this (college degree, house, career, $1000, etc.) but > > you must agree to become indebted. Here's how to repay the debt. As > > soon as possible but before the end of your life, you must find two or > > more other parties who are as needy as you yourself are right now, and > > you must give to them a (college degree, house, career, $1000, etc.) > > equivalant to the one I am about to give to you, and you must also bind > > them to this same agreement. > > > > The above was passed to me. It's an inverse-chain letter! Or more like a > > forest fire that will un-burn the entire world. Please pass it along. > > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 18:49:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA16511; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:48:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:48:24 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990907210433.009b61b0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: rymel@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 21:45:51 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rymel Subject: Re: Off Subject! In-Reply-To: <37D5A37E.302B8EAE@microtec.net> References: <000701bef972$174776e0$9180fea9@fs11> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ItvTp1.0.r14.S1Srt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11812 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: you shouldn't HAVE to adjust your browser, it views everything that's compatible with HTML 4.0, and hotmail doesn't seem to have anything browser specific. as for the 3 month delays, i sometimes get double or triple mails of the same thing from this list, as well as getting the same mail i got the week before a second time. weird huh? >Oh Yeah ? > >Well here's a good one: > >Hotmail.com is a microsoft site and I can't access my email with internet >explorer anymore, I have to access it with netscape. > >Would you imagine, a microsoft web site that is not compatible with a >microsoft browser. Maybe I'm just dumb and don't know how to adjust my >browser, but they don't specify how to do it either. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 18:54:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA17860; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:54:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:54:04 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-4-dyn46.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.102.74.109] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:53:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <079501bef99c$4a01d100$454a66d1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: The Altruism Virus Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:44:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"DlBVt.0.zM4.x6Srt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11813 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Bill and Patrick, I have to agree with Patrick. For all its faults (and they are many, environmental and social) the business model is the only one that organizes people's time and energy well enough to actually make a difference. Altruism is based on being wealthy enough to give enough to make a difference. Fred > >If you want to help the world, stop kidding yourself and start innovating, then >make a company, you will spread your invention to the world and make a lot of >people work. > >Then you can feel happy about yourself for your accomplishment and the pay back >is of course the PROFIT$ > >> William Beaty wrote: >> >> > WARNING! If you read this message you will be meta-infected by the >> > Altruism Memetic Plague From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 19:29:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA31209; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:29:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:29:18 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-4-dyn46.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.102.74.109] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:29:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <07c301bef9a1$391b64a0$454a66d1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: TIME !!!!!! Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:07:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"HWsTg2.0.Td7.zdSrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11814 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Patrick and all, > >Are you saying that they are considering that their overunity is coming from a >time differential ? > >That's what I've always theorised myself. I think it's at least a possibility. I know that time alterations are possible from my own experiments, although we didn't use ES fields (we used pyramids, crystals, and vortex points). There are at least three lines of thought that converge on time being involved. 1) The endochronic theory of Vadim and Komkov. 2) The potential effect of Jin Liu. 3) The reframing of field equations of Hickman. I don't have time :-) to get into a detailed description of all these right now but to my mind they all essentially boil down to the idea that time is a property of a material system and is a dependent variable of energy interaction in that system. Where that leaves ideas like time travel into the past and future I don't know. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 20:32:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA19115; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:31:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:31:56 -0700 Message-ID: <37D5D7F9.4084E5E8@mail.admiral.ru> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 07:28:57 +0400 From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Reply-To: frolov@mail.admiral.ru Organization: Home Lab X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TIME !!!!!! References: <05fd01bef8f5$3fe68320$454a66d1@w7o9k8> <37D5A2B7.C260A76C@microtec.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tTyaA1.0.Zg4.hYTrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11815 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: patrick tremblay wrote: > Are you saying that they are considering that their overunity is coming from a > time differential ? There is web site about this aspect. At first the theory and mechanical experiments were made by Prof. N.Kozyrev, Russia. I translated some his papers also. Alexander V. Frolov -- http://www.time-machine.spb.ru ICQ 43757451 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 20:47:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA24310; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:46:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:46:55 -0700 Message-ID: <37D5DB7C.E681723C@mail.admiral.ru> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 07:43:56 +0400 From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Reply-To: frolov@mail.admiral.ru Organization: Home Lab X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sparks are flying!!! References: <05ce01bef8dd$fb41b1c0$454a66d1@w7o9k8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iBvqN3.0.lx5.kmTrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11816 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: About sparks. What is the spark in vacuum? Beam of particles? Where are the particles from? In some papers authors wrote the spark is result of the vacuum polarization. So, it is changed space-time curvature. This point of view can be useful for explanation of the effect when the sparks (arc) is used for radioactivity reduction (dezactivation). Alexander V. Frolov Fred Epps wrote: > Hi Bill, > > Some interesting ideas. You've by no means covered all the spark overunity > references in the literature. You've proably seen most of these but: > > Pappas and Dragone reported overunity in arcs. Their device was similar to > the early work of Chernetskii, and Frolov has also replicated this. > > Graneau and others report anomalous energy release in arcs in water-- more > than can be explaioned by their own ampere forces theories. Graneau is > attempting to build a piston motor using these forces. > > Rowe reported formation of elements in arcs, replicating experiments by JJ > Thompson and several others. > > Various cold fusion researchers also showed transmutation in spark > discharges. > > Roentgen reported excess energy in discharges in "active Nitrogen". > > Several researchers observed anomalous pressures on cathodes in arcs. > > The Correas showed overunity in certain discharge regimes. > > This is by no means an exhaustive list. > > In my opinion if plasmas and arcs were as easy to handle and understand as > permanent > magnets we would have free energy already. > > > >Maybe I'm a little dense, but, I keep coming back to a common thread in > >many of these OU devices, the spark. I've brought this up before but it > >didn't go anywhere. > > So have I with the same result. The reason being that few, including me, > have the knowledge or equipment to do this kind of research. > > > >But recently: > > Stephan Hartmann in his inquires about spark gap oxidation > > generated electricity (back spikes). > > > > And, Henry Curtis's note about Santilli's work. > > > >So I thought I'd give it another try. > > > >We have the two ideas presented > > > >1) Stephan Hartmann's idea about a simple chemical reaction going on in the > >spark gap that has as a by-product some extra electrons. > > > >2) In Santilli's data oxygen is combining with several different low > >molecular weight elements including carbon to form higher atomic weight > >elements with the liberation of energy in commercial quantities. > > This sounds a bit like the transmutation of carbon to iron in a simple arc > described by Kushi and replicated many times by many people. I have seen it > myself at Bill B's science meeting. Where can Santilli's data be found? > > > >Let me add 3 more off the wall conjectures. > > > >3) Remember when Stephan brought up the subject of air entrainment when he > >blew into a tube with a 1 inch gap between his mouth and the tube, how he > >got significantly more air volume than when his mouth was directly against > >the end of the tube. Couldn't something similar be going on with electrons > >in a spark gap. Maybe as the spark jumps the gap through the air it is > >entraining excess atmospheric electrons/ions to add too the expected amount > >of flow. (Yah, I know it's kind of a stretch, but what the hey!) > > This is similar to Aspden's theories about what is going on with the > anomalous arc pressures. The ions and electrons may have similar charges > but they have vastly different masses. Aspden feels that the > electrodynamic force law is incomplete without including the mass of the > charged particles, and that when you do you can get these unusual forces. > This is also his explanation of the Graneau water arc anomalies. > > Pappas believes that the Ampere electrodynamic law allows for regimes at > high velocities ( >.7C) where magnetic forces overcome electrostatic > repulsion in > the discharge and allow for an anti-entropic collection of charge against > the potential gradient (as best as I can explain it). > > > >4) A spark gap could be considered at different moments a capacitor & a > >resistor. A capacitor in that two conductive surfaces separated by a > >dielectric (air) with one side connected to a charge, and the other to > >ground (or whatever). A resistor in that it conducts electricity from one > >point to another converting some electrons into other forms of energy in > >the transfer (heat, light). I've even seen it referred to as negative > >resistance? > > Yes, I think the high field present just before discharge is important for > these effects as I will explain in my speculation shortly. > > > >Consider, in a commutator type spark gap you have two plates in proximity > >to each other, one with a charge. As the commutator turns these plates are > >pulled apart in distance thus converting mechanical energy into electrical. > >Thus momentarily the charged plate has more energy than it was initially > >given (back spike?). Then as the charge grows from being stretched it > >reaches a critical level where the dielectric properties of the air fail > >and the charge jumps across as a spark. > > That is interesting, I hadn't seen parametric considerations brought into > discharges before. But wouldn't the discharge occur as the plates were > closest to alignment, and thus when the stored energy was at its lowest > point? And isn't the spark too short to be affected by changing C since that > happens in a much longer time frame relative to the time of the arc? > > > >Consider also that the spark forms as the conductors are pulled apart, not > >so much as when the conductors are brought together as the resistance of > >the dielectric decreases. > > Huh, I didn't know that. I always assumed the other way around. > > Perhaps the reverse would apply, as the plates > >of a capacitor get closer the charge decreases. The attraction of opposite > >charges pull the plates closer converting electrical energy into mechanical > >energy. > > Right. > > >Thus Newman's battery provides the initial charge, then the mechanical > >energy of the commutator is converted to electricity and fed back to the > >battery. I think this may also apply to Zaev's system. This would not > >apply to a fixed gap spark plug type situation. (Yah, I know this is also > >a stretch {pun intended ;^} ) > > Well if you look at the commutator as a parametric generator it is an > exceedingly inefficient one. For instance th Ferdnand Cap device which is a > rotating parametric ES power generator requires many plates to get any real > energy gain from rotation. And of course this energy is being supplied by > the rotation. > > > >Question: Has the energy involved in turning the commutator been properly > >accounted for in the overall system? > > In Jean-louis's self-running Newman replication this would not be a factor > since the energy to turn the commutator is coming from the rotating magnet. > > > >And last, in the off the wall category..... > > > >5) Tom Bearden's papers indicate that any capacitor is a ZPE gateway, > > No problem with that, I think everything is a ZPE gateway :-).. though I > dont believe in ZPE in the standard sense, I would call it spin energy. > > the > >problem is getting it to stay open to a ZPE energy flow. There may be a > >connection here. If the commutator spark gap can be considered a > >capacitor, perhaps during the dynamics of the changing capacitive > >conductive values involved, the conditions are momentarily right to allow > >a brief ZPE energy flow to add to the energy of the system. > > > Now her is where my speculation comes in. Robert Stirniman has commented on > the work of Jin Liu in his electrogravitic papers. I refer you to > > http://www.padrak.com/ine/RS_REF3.html top of the page. > > In part he says: > > One interesting prediction of Liu's theory is that electromagnetic potential > will result in time dilation. He doesn't appear to be aware that there is > already experimental evidence that this occurs. See references to inventions > and experiments by people such as Saxl, Barker, and Keller, which > demonstrate > time dilation in an electric potential. Time dilation can be viewed > equivalently as a shift in wavelength. Liu wishes for someone to conduct an > experiment to test for a change in wavelength by using a quantum > interferometer. A fine idea. But what about those experimenters who have > already measured this effect with a clock? Also see a variety of references > here to theories and experiments which relate the scalar electric potential > to > the gravitational field, and time dilation is a well know, and > experimentally > verified, prediction of general relativity. > > I also have a paper that predicts from other considerations an effect on the > time rate due to an electric field. Thus a laser beam would change frequency > slightly in a field. > And there is also the work of Leon Sprink in France who observed many > strange effects from HV DC fields maintained over a period of time. These > effects can be partially accounted for by time alterations I think. > > In the time before arcing you have no current and thus no magnetic field. Al > lthe nergy is in the form of potential. At the moment of the arc the > potential field rapidly converts into a magnetic field as a result of the > formation of current. Is it possible that the presence of the high > potential field before the arc, and its absence during the arc, creates an > overunity measurement in the instruments outside the time alteration effect? > > Fred -- http://www.time-machine.spb.ru ICQ 43757451 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 21:29:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA04918; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:29:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:29:28 -0700 Message-ID: <19990908042900.90644.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.255.80.66] From: "Timothy Flytcher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: I got this from a good source ...and fully agree :) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 21:28:54 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"dE5Xh1.0.lC1.eOUrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11817 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On the 1st of January, 1998, Bjarne Stroustrup gave an interview to the IEEE's 'Computer' magazine. Naturally, the editors thought he would be giving a retrospective view of seven years of object-oriented design, using the language he created. By the end of the interview, the interviewer got more than he had bargained for and, subsequently, the editor decided to suppress its contents, 'for the good of the industry' but, as with many of these things, there was a leak. Here is a complete transcript of what was said, unedited, and unrehearsed, so it isn't as neat as planned interviews. You will find it interesting... __________________________________________________________________ Interviewer: Well, it's been a few years since you changed the world of software design. How does it feel, looking back? Stroustrup: Actually, I was thinking about those days, just before you arrived. Do you remember? Everyone was writing 'C' and, the trouble was, they were pretty damn good at it. Universities got pretty good at teaching it, too. They were turning out competent - I stress the word 'competent' - graduates at a phenomenal rate. That's what caused the problem. Interviewer: Problem? Stroustrup: Yes, problem. Remember when everyone wrote COBOL? Interviewer: Of course, I did, too. Stroustrup: Well, in the beginning, these guys were like demi-gods. Their salaries were high, and they were treated like royalty. Interviewer: Those were the days, eh? Stroustrup: Right. So what happened? IBM got sick of it, and invested millions in training programmers, till they were a dime a dozen. Interviewer: That's why I got out. Salaries dropped within a year, to the point where being a journalist actually paid better. Stroustrup: Exactly. Well, the same happened with 'C' programmers. Interviewer: I see, but what's the point? Stroustrup: Well, one day, when I was sitting in my office, I thought of this little scheme, which would redress the balance a little. I thought 'I wonder what would happen, if there were a language so complicated, so difficult to learn, that nobody would ever be able to swamp the market with programmers? Actually, I got some of the ideas from X10, you know, X windows. That was such a bitch of a graphics system, that it only just ran on those Sun 3/60 things. They had all the ingredients for what I wanted. A really ridiculously complex syntax, obscure functions, and pseudo-OO structure. Even now, nobody writes raw X-windows code. Motif is the only way to go if you want to retain your sanity. Interviewer: You're kidding...? Stroustrup: Not a bit of it. In fact, there was another problem. Unix was written in 'C', which meant that any 'C' programmer could very easily become a systems programmer. Remember what a mainframe systems programmer used to earn? Interviewer: You bet I do, that's what I used to do. Stroustrup: OK, so this new language had to divorce itself from Unix, by hiding all the system calls that bound the two together so nicely. This would enable guys who only knew about DOS to earn a decent living too. Interviewer: I don't believe you said that... Stroustrup: Well, it's been long enough, now, and I believe most people have figured out for themselves that C++ is a waste of time but, I must say, it's taken them a lot longer than I thought it would. Interviewer: So how exactly did you do it? Stroustrup: It was only supposed to be a joke, I never thought people would take the book seriously. Anyone with half a brain can see that object-oriented programming is counter-intuitive, illogical and inefficient. Interviewer: What? Stroustrup: And as for 're-useable code' --- when did you ever hear of a company re-using its code? Interviewer: Well, never, actually, but... Stroustrup: There you are then. Mind you, a few tried, in the early days. There was this Oregon company --- Mentor Graphics, I think they were called --- really caught a cold trying to rewrite everything in C++ in about '90 or '91. I felt sorry for them really, but I thought people would learn from their mistakes. Interviewer: Obviously, they didn't? Stroustrup: Not in the slightest. Trouble is, most companies hush-up all their major blunders, and explaining a $30 million loss to the shareholders would have been difficult. Give them their due, though, they made it work in the end. Interviewer: They did? Well, there you are then, it proves O-O works. Stroustrup: Well, almost. The executable was so huge, it took five minutes to load, on an HP workstation, with 128MB of RAM. Then it ran like molasses. Actually, I thought this would be a major stumbling-block, and I'd get found out within a week, but nobody cared. Sun and HP were only too glad to sell enormously powerful boxes, with huge resources just to run trivial programs. You know, when we had our first C++ compiler, at AT&T, I compiled 'Hello World', and couldn't believe the size of the executable. 2.1MB Interviewer: What? Well, compilers have come a long way, since then. Stroustrup: They have? Try it on the latest version of g++ - you won't get much change out of half a megabyte. Also, there are several quite recent examples for you, from all over the world. British Telecom had a major disaster on their hands but, luckily, managed to scrap the whole thing and start again. They were luckier than Australian Telecom. Now I hear that Siemens is building a dinosaur, and getting more and more worried as the size of the hardware gets bigger, to accommodate the executables. Isn't multiple inheritance a joy? Interviewer: Yes, but C++ is basically a sound language. Stroustrup: You really believe that, don't you? Have you ever sat down and worked on a C++ project? Here's what happens: First, I've put in enough pitfalls to make sure that only the most trivial projects will work first time. Take operator overloading. At the end of the project, almost every module has it, usually, because guys feel they really should do it, as it was in their training course. The same operator then means something totally different in every module. Try pulling that lot together, when you have a hundred or so modules. And as for data hiding, God, I sometimes can't help laughing when I hear about the problems companies have making their modules talk to each other. I think the word 'synergistic' was specially invented to twist the knife in a project manager's ribs. Interviewer: I have to say, I'm beginning to be quite appalled at all this. You say you did it to raise programmers' salaries? That's obscene. Stroustrup: Not really. Everyone has a choice. I didn't expect the thing to get so much out of hand. Anyway, I basically succeeded. C++ is dying off now, but programmers still get high salaries - especially those poor devils who have to maintain all this crap. You do realise, it's impossible to maintain a large C++ software module if you didn't actually write it? Interviewer: How come? Stroustrup: You are out of touch, aren't you? Remember the typedef? Interviewer: Yes, of course. Stroustrup: Remember how long it took to grope through the header files only to find that 'RoofRaised' was a double precision number? Well, imagine how long it takes to find all the implicit typedefs in all the Classes in a major project. Interviewer: So how do you reckon you've succeeded? Stroustrup: The universities haven't been teaching 'C' for such a long time, there's now a shortage of decent 'C' programmers. Especially those who know anything about Unix systems programming. How many guys would know what to do with 'malloc', when they've used 'new' all these years - and never bothered to check the return code. In fact, most C++ programmers throw away their return codes. Whatever happened to good ol' '-1'? At least you knew you had an error, without bogging the thing down in all that 'throw' 'catch' 'try' stuff. Interviewer: But, surely, inheritance does save a lot of time? Stroustrup: Does it? Have you ever noticed the difference between a 'C' project plan, and a C++ project plan? The planning stage for a C++ project is three times as long. Precisely to make sure that everything which should be inherited is, and what shouldn't isn't. Then, they still get it wrong. Whoever heard of memory leaks in a 'C' program? Now finding them is a major industry. Most companies give up, and send the product out, knowing it leaks like a sieve, simply to avoid the expense of tracking them all down. Interviewer: There are tools.... Stroustrup: Most of which were written in C++. Interviewer: If we publish this, you'll probably get lynched, you do realise that? Stroustrup: I doubt it. As I said, C++ is way past its peak now, and no company in its right mind would start a C++ project without a pilot trial. That should convince them that it's the road to disaster. If not, they deserve all they get. You know, I tried to convince Dennis Ritchie to rewrite Unix in C++. Interviewer: Oh my God. What did he say? Stroustrup: Well, luckily, he has a good sense of humor. I think both he and Brian figured out what I was doing, in the early days, but never let on. He said he'd help me write a C++ version of DOS, if I was interested. Interviewer: Were you? Stroustrup: Actually, I did write DOS in C++, I'll give you a demo when we're through. I have it running on a Sparc 20 in the computer room. Goes like a rocket on 4 CPU's, and only takes up 70 megs of disk. Interviewer: What's it like on a PC? Stroustrup: Now you're kidding. Haven't you ever seen Windows '95? I think of that as my biggest success. Nearly blew the game before I was ready, though. Interviewer: You know, that idea of a Unix++ has really got me thinking. Somewhere out there, there's a guy going to try it. Stroustrup: Not after they read this interview. Interviewer: I'm sorry, but I don't see us being able to publish any of this. Stroustrup: But it's the story of the century. I only want to be remembered by my fellow programmers, for what I've done for them. You know how much a C++ guy can get these days? Interviewer: Last I heard, a really top guy is worth $70 - $80 an hour. Stroustrup: See? And I bet he earns it. Keeping track of all the gotchas I put into C++ is no easy job. And, as I said before, every C++ programmer feels bound by some mystic promise to use every damn element of the language on every project. Actually, that really annoys me sometimes, even though it serves my original purpose. I almost like the language after all this time. Interviewer: You mean you didn't before? Stroustrup: Hated it. It even looks clumsy, don't you agree? But when the book royalties started to come in... well, you get the picture. Interviewer: Just a minute. What about references? You must admit, you improved on 'C' pointers. Stroustrup: Hmm. I've always wondered about that. Originally, I thought I had. Then, one day I was discussing this with a guy who'd written C++ from the beginning. He said he could never remember whether his variables were referenced or dereferenced, so he always used pointers. He said the little asterisk always reminded him. Interviewer: Well, at this point, I usually say 'thank you very much' but it hardly seems adequate. Stroustrup: Promise me you'll publish this. My conscience is getting the better of me these days. Interviewer: I'll let you know, but I think I know what my editor will say. Stroustrup: Who'd believe it anyway? Although, can you send me a copy of that tape? Interviewer: I can do that. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 21:46:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA10051; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:45:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:45:49 -0700 Message-ID: <19990908044515.41494.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.255.80.66] From: "Timothy Flytcher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Altruism Virus Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 21:45:15 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"YC0le3.0.tS2.ydUrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11818 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >I have to agree with Patrick. For all its faults (and they are many, >environmental and social) the business model is the only one that organizes >people's time and energy well enough to actually make a difference. > >Altruism is based on being wealthy enough to give enough to make a >difference. Altruism can not work ... for if you are wealthy enough to give some away you probably cased more damage than you could make up for... OR... you could just do like our government... muck things up so that it takes more man hours to do anything... than take the credit for all the people you employ :) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 22:03:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA13688; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 22:03:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 22:03:17 -0700 Message-ID: <19990908050245.66146.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.255.80.66] From: "Timothy Flytcher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: I got this from a good source ...and fully agree :) #2 Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 22:02:41 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"rGCob3.0.mL3.KuUrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11819 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Interviewer: Obviously, they didn't? Stroustrup: Not in the slightest. Trouble is, most companies hush-up all their major blunders, and explaining a $30 million loss to the shareholders would have been difficult. Give them their due, though, they made it work in the end. Interviewer: They did? Well, there you are then, it proves O-O works. Stroustrup: Well, almost. The executable was so huge, it took five minutes to load, on an HP workstation, with 128MB of RAM. Then it ran like molasses. Actually, I thought this would be a major stumbling-block, and I'd get found out within a week, but nobody cared. Sun and HP were only too glad to sell enormously powerful boxes, with huge resources just to run trivial programs. You know, when we had our first C++ compiler, at AT&T, I compiled 'Hello World', and couldn't believe the size of the executable. 2.1MB Interviewer: What? Well, compilers have come a long way, since then. Stroustrup: They have? Try it on the latest version of g++ - you won't get much change out of half a megabyte. Also, there are several quite recent examples for you, from all over the world. British Telecom had a major disaster on their hands but, luckily, managed to scrap the whole thing and start again. They were luckier than Australian Telecom. Now I hear that Siemens is building a dinosaur, and getting more and more worried as the size of the hardware gets bigger, to accommodate the executables. Isn't multiple inheritance a joy? Interviewer: Yes, but C++ is basically a sound language. Stroustrup: You really believe that, don't you? Have you ever sat down and worked on a C++ project? Here's what happens: First, I've put in enough pitfalls to make sure that only the most trivial projects will work first time. Take operator overloading. At the end of the project, almost every module has it, usually, because guys feel they really should do it, as it was in their training course. The same operator then means something totally different in every module. Try pulling that lot together, when you have a hundred or so modules. And as for data hiding, God, I sometimes can't help laughing when I hear about the problems companies have making their modules talk to each other. I think the word 'synergistic' was specially invented to twist the knife in a project manager's ribs. Interviewer: I have to say, I'm beginning to be quite appalled at all this. You say you did it to raise programmers' salaries? That's obscene. Stroustrup: Not really. Everyone has a choice. I didn't expect the thing to get so much out of hand. Anyway, I basically succeeded. C++ is dying off now, but programmers still get high salaries - especially those poor devils who have to maintain all this crap. You do realise, it's impossible to maintain a large C++ software module if you didn't actually write it? Interviewer: How come? Stroustrup: You are out of touch, aren't you? Remember the typedef? Interviewer: Yes, of course. Stroustrup: Remember how long it took to grope through the header files only to find that 'RoofRaised' was a double precision number? Well, imagine how long it takes to find all the implicit typedefs in all the Classes in a major project. Interviewer: So how do you reckon you've succeeded? Stroustrup: The universities haven't been teaching 'C' for such a long time, there's now a shortage of decent 'C' programmers. Especially those who know anything about Unix systems programming. How many guys would know what to do with 'malloc', when they've used 'new' all these years - and never bothered to check the return code. In fact, most C++ programmers throw away their return codes. Whatever happened to good ol' '-1'? At least you knew you had an error, without bogging the thing down in all that 'throw' 'catch' 'try' stuff. Interviewer: But, surely, inheritance does save a lot of time? Stroustrup: Does it? Have you ever noticed the difference between a 'C' project plan, and a C++ project plan? The planning stage for a C++ project is three times as long. Precisely to make sure that everything which should be inherited is, and what shouldn't isn't. Then, they still get it wrong. Whoever heard of memory leaks in a 'C' program? Now finding them is a major industry. Most companies give up, and send the product out, knowing it leaks like a sieve, simply to avoid the expense of tracking them all down. Interviewer: There are tools.... Stroustrup: Most of which were written in C++. Interviewer: If we publish this, you'll probably get lynched, you do realise that? Stroustrup: I doubt it. As I said, C++ is way past its peak now, and no company in its right mind would start a C++ project without a pilot trial. That should convince them that it's the road to disaster. If not, they deserve all they get. You know, I tried to convince Dennis Ritchie to rewrite Unix in C++. Interviewer: Oh my God. What did he say? Stroustrup: Well, luckily, he has a good sense of humor. I think both he and Brian figured out what I was doing, in the early days, but never let on. He said he'd help me write a C++ version of DOS, if I was interested. Interviewer: Were you? Stroustrup: Actually, I did write DOS in C++, I'll give you a demo when we're through. I have it running on a Sparc 20 in the computer room. Goes like a rocket on 4 CPU's, and only takes up 70 megs of disk. Interviewer: What's it like on a PC? Stroustrup: Now you're kidding. Haven't you ever seen Windows '95? I think of that as my biggest success. Nearly blew the game before I was ready, though. Interviewer: You know, that idea of a Unix++ has really got me thinking. Somewhere out there, there's a guy going to try it. Stroustrup: Not after they read this interview. Interviewer: I'm sorry, but I don't see us being able to publish any of this. Stroustrup: But it's the story of the century. I only want to be remembered by my fellow programmers, for what I've done for them. You know how much a C++ guy can get these days? Interviewer: Last I heard, a really top guy is worth $70 - $80 an hour. Stroustrup: See? And I bet he earns it. Keeping track of all the gotchas I put into C++ is no easy job. And, as I said before, every C++ programmer feels bound by some mystic promise to use every damn element of the language on every project. Actually, that really annoys me sometimes, even though it serves my original purpose. I almost like the language after all this time. Interviewer: You mean you didn't before? Stroustrup: Hated it. It even looks clumsy, don't you agree? But when the book royalties started to come in... well, you get the picture. Interviewer: Just a minute. What about references? You must admit, you improved on 'C' pointers. Stroustrup: Hmm. I've always wondered about that. Originally, I thought I had. Then, one day I was discussing this with a guy who'd written C++ from the beginning. He said he could never remember whether his variables were referenced or dereferenced, so he always used pointers. He said the little asterisk always reminded him. Interviewer: Well, at this point, I usually say 'thank you very much' but it hardly seems adequate. Stroustrup: Promise me you'll publish this. My conscience is getting the better of me these days. Interviewer: I'll let you know, but I think I know what my editor will say. Stroustrup: Who'd believe it anyway? Although, can you send me a copy of that tape? Interviewer: I can do that. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 22:59:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA24060; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 22:59:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 22:59:09 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990907225341.2fef5f66@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 22:53:41 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Make a solar cell in your kitchen (fwd) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"lyfB43.0.rt5.jiVrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11820 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:10 PM 9/7/99 -0700, Bill wrote: > >see below >I just finished the solar cell section of my book this weekend. >Check out: > "http://scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/echem/echem2.html" > Again this site (only) gives me an error, so I cannot view it. Maybe related, Lindsay publications still sells a book (US$4.95, 22 pages) by Walt Noon on building a copper oxide solar cell. Also, Comspace corp in New York (haven't found them on the web) sells the old Bell Labs science kits. One is making a Si solar cell. The kit includes a doped wafer, chemicals for boron doping, a nichrome coil heater to make your own "diffusion furnace", chemicals to plate nickel electrodes, etc. It's cost a few months ago was US$32.95. Other kits include "Crystals and Light"US$32.95, "From sun to sound"(A 1 transistor oscillator), "Speech Synthesis". The second 2 I had in high school back when there was a "Ma Bell". -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 23:05:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA26810; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:05:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:05:13 -0700 Message-ID: <37D5FC91.B7807FF4@ihug.co.nz> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 18:05:05 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TIME !!!!!! References: <05fd01bef8f5$3fe68320$454a66d1@w7o9k8> <37D5A2B7.C260A76C@microtec.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PZo2T2.0.nY6.OoVrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11821 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This does make sense and can work mathematically.... (creation of energy by using time) patrick tremblay wrote: > FRED! > > Are you saying that they are considering that their overunity is coming from a > time differential ? > > That's what I've always theorised myself. > > Fred Epps wrote: > > > Hi Matti, > > > > > > > > One of the things that we have to remember, is that even if the spark > > does > > >create a nuclear reaction that liberates energy, it still is NOT an over > > >unity phenomena. > > > > Of course, it depends on your definition. It does not violate so-called > > "conservation of energy law", but that law is a tautology since every time a > > new energy source is found the law is extended to cover it. > > Since the law is tautological it is a non-law in my opinion. It does not > > predict behavior except when it does, which is not very useful ultimately. > > Where is a closed system? > > > > > > And if there is an observed time differential in the spark at 0.7 C, your > > >clocks are way more accurate than mine. :-) > > > > I think you are mixing up two different things. Pappas and Dragone observed > > overunity-- or if you prefer a new source of energy-- in real sparks, and > > theorized that they came from the .7C effects. > > The time effects from ES fields are relatively large scale and have been > > observed by Barker, Sprink and others. > > > > > > Keep plucking up. :-) > > > > I hope thats a good thing :-) > > > > Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 23:17:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA31297; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:17:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:17:33 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Make a solar cell in your kitchen (fwd) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 02:24:30 -0400 Message-ID: <19990908062430125.AAA162@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"wnrnu2.0.re7.yzVrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11822 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey Bill! >Subject: Make a solar cell in your kitchen in less than an hour from easy to find materials > >I just finished the solar cell section of my book this weekend. >Check out: > "http://scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/echem/echem2.html" That's a great site. I spent a couple of hours on it today, and will go back. The solar cell looks easy enough to build, but 35 microamps of power output would put it right up there with the potato watch! I'll have to write to him, and ask what voltage he was getting just to see how may acres of those things it would take to charge a marine battery. The explanations and photos were great, though, and the rest of the site was pretty interesting too. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 07:47:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA18205; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 07:46:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 07:46:51 -0700 From: "Stefano Innocenti" To: "freenrg-l" Subject: A magnet catalog... Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:40:40 +0200 Message-ID: <01befa08$1f6ef3c0$3900fd80@zio-stefo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEFA18.E2F7C3C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"WTT3Y3.0.MS4.QRdrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11823 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEFA18.E2F7C3C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello list I've found this catalog of magnets for bio-applications... http://www.cutcat.com/page9c.htm ciao Stefano ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEFA18.E2F7C3C0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="page9c.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="page9c.url" [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.cutcat.com/page9c.htm Modified=4044DAE307FABE0101 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEFA18.E2F7C3C0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 08:36:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA31734; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:36:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:36:37 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-2-dyn34.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.102.74.49] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:36:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003e01befa0f$32038ee0$25b6bfd1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: TIME !!!!!! Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:31:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"nQPLP1.0.cl7.4Aert"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11824 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Alexander, > >There is web site about this aspect. At first the theory and mechanical >experiments were made by Prof. N.Kozyrev, Russia. I translated some his papers >also. A great site, Alexander, thanks for putting it up! I have one question at the moment, about a brief article about OU transformers, at http://www.time-machine.spb.ru/pulses.htm It appears to state that pulses into a transformer that are too rapid for its time constant can be OU because the secondary cannot respond with back emf. Am I understanding that right, and have you done any experiments with that? It resembles the PMOD of Greg Watson just a bit, at http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/pmod.html > >Alexander V. Frolov >-- >http://www.time-machine.spb.ru >ICQ 43757451 Is your ICQ working? I put in a request for authorization a few days with no answer. (I've had trouble with this function before). From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 11:07:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA18140; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:03:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:03:46 -0700 Message-ID: <37D6A415.32571B8A@mail.admiral.ru> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 21:59:49 +0400 From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Reply-To: frolov@mail.admiral.ru Organization: Home Lab X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TIME !!!!!! References: <003e01befa0f$32038ee0$25b6bfd1@w7o9k8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AVJz33.0.HR4.1Kgrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11826 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred Epps wrote: > I have one question at the moment, about a brief article about OU > transformers, at http://www.time-machine.spb.ru/pulses.htm > Yes, it is > It appears to state that pulses into a transformer that are too rapid for In ideal case it should be instant front form (shape) or "meandr", it is rectangular i.e. non-sinusoidal current. > its time constant can be OU because the secondary cannot respond with back > emf. Secondary is replying for changes of the density of current. In this case density is created as function of the time by means of digital method, i.e. pause between impulses is changing. > Am I understanding that right, and have you done any experiments with > that? Yes, small level is o.k. working. > It resembles the PMOD of Greg Watson just a bit, at > http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/pmod.html > > Yes, it is similar > Is your ICQ working? I put in a request for authorization a few days with no > answer. (I've had trouble with this function before). YEs, it is o.k. I have some people on-line by ICQ Alexander -- http://www.time-machine.spb.ru ICQ 43757451 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 12:06:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA07776; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:06:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:06:06 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <524ac1e4.25080d74@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:05:24 EDT Subject: Site update, positive test results! To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"WV3ee3.0.Nv1.TEhrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11827 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I will put together document for site to explain test results and describe operation. Butch LaFonte LaFonte Research site 1 or http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 13:14:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA27379; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:14:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:14:16 -0700 Message-ID: <37D6A998.EC973726@telusplanet.net> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 13:23:20 -0500 From: Don Adams Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dhGeQ.0.dh6.NEirt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11828 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Man, why on earth does this stuff continue? I can't count how many times I've seen this issue flap up here and not be resolved.... Evan Soule wrote: > AFFIDAVIT: > THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS. > > THE UNIFIED, GYROSCOPIC MECHANICAL FIELD THEORY > OF JOSEPH NEWMAN IS ALSO CORRECT. > > The following is the truthful statements of myself, Milton Everett, a > Mechanical Engineer. At the time that I met Joseph Newman, I was working > for the Mississippi Department of Energy. > > I first visited Joseph Newman's home in Mississippi for the purpose of > proving him wrong. > > Instead, not only myself, but I also witnessed numerous other credible > scientific individuals verify his work. Like myself, these individuals > initially disbelieved the technology and then listened to Joseph Newman's > Mechanical Unified Field Theory. They then tested several crude prototypes > with oscilloscopes, torque tests, heat tests while comparing the > performance of Joseph Newman's Motor/Generator to conventional Motors. All > of these scientific individuals then signed Affidavits THAT JOSEPH NEWMAN'S > INVENTION WORKS AND THAT HIS MECHANICAL THEORY OF THE GYROSCOPIC PARTICLE > WAS ALSO CORRECT. > > To read some of these credible and brave scientific individuals' > comments, see pages 22-48, 85-87, 113-114, 171-177, 213-216, and 227-237 of > Joseph Newman's fundamental book, THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN. The > book itself documents why we all so endorsed Joseph Newman's Life Work. > > I was so impressed with Joseph Newman and his Mechanical Field Theory of > the Gyroscopic Particle that I influenced the premier electrical engineer > of Mississippi State University to travel with me to Joseph Newman's home. > After considerable testing of his Motors, he stated that: "Joseph Newman's > Motors are 200% efficient." > > I, myself, stated on a national CBS Evening News broadcast that, > "Einstein would have to take a back seat to Joseph Newman." > > I have also witnessed the terrible manner in which Joseph Newman has > been treated by various agencies of our Federal Government and special > interests in industry. > > I have now tested his Production Prototype located in the Phoenix area > where I am now retired. > > I have not written details of testing as I have for years witnessed the > denial by others (who did not test Joseph Newman's Motor) of my test and > those of numerous other credible scientific individuals. But I do > challenge all thinking individuals to come and hear for themselves Joseph > Newman's Mechanical Gyroscopic Explanation of many different > previously-unexplained phenomena in science. I also challenge such > individuals to test his beneficial Energy Invention for themselves or, at > the very least, obtain his fundamental book and do as he asks: MASTER IT. > To attack a new technology without understanding it or testing it for > yourself is not a scientific approach and is also dishonest. > > I will now provide an eye-opening example of the significance of Joseph > Newman's technology: > > Unnecessary friction losses found in the relatively-crude, hand-built > Production Motor are tremendously greater than the Input Power at 100 volts > which operates the Newman Motor without any torque load on the Motor's > shaft. > > We are talking about a magnitude of 1200% more unnecessary friction > losses than Input Power. Of course, those unnecessary friction losses can > easily be removed on the final, machine-built Production Motors. > > As any mechanical engineer is taught in the first years of Mechanics, > such astounding results are impossible by conventional teachings. > > Yet these results occur exactly as predicted by Joseph Newman many years > earlier when he originally formulated his Theory of the Gyroscopic Particle > and Mechanical Unified Field Theory. > > The mechanical rightness of his Theory should be realized by anyone who > witnesses a 400-pound Motor operating on ONLY 2 watts of Input Power! > > As a person of mechanical training and years of technical service, it is > with great sincerity that I tell the people of this world that Joseph > Newman's Energy Machine will greatly benefit everyone on this planet. > > Through a simple mechanical attachment, his Production Motors can easily > be connected to all home and industrial devices to operate them at a mere > fraction of the present cost. > > What Joseph Newman has innovated is totally opposite to conventional > mechanical teachings with respect to motorized devices. Such devices use > more and more power as such conventional motors become larger. With Joseph > Newman's revolutionary mechanical technology, as his motors become larger > they produce more and more power and use LESS AND LESS POWER! > > Now consider the mass production of this revolutionary technology with > its phenomenal and beneficial impact on behalf of all humanity. For all > technical individuals who are sensitive to the fact that Einstein's > mathematical work was criticized and Einstein himself belittled for years > by his contemporaries of the time, such individuals now realize that the > scientific community now takes very seriously every word written by > Einstein. > > Joseph Newman and his life's work has been treated in a similar fashion > --- except more so. > > The history of scientific breakthroughs proves that such treatment was > the norm, not the exception. As we enter the 21st century, is this any way > for humanity and those individuals who claim to be scientists wish to treat > our most beneficial and creative individuals? > > I ask for all scientific individuals and people throughout the world to > support Joseph Newman. By virtue of extensive tests conducted on his many > prototypes over the years (as well as the recent solar panel tests) his > Production Motor is CLEARLY OVER 100% EFFICIENT. All of which proves that > his Motors fundamentally operate on VOLTAGE and not on current or wattage. > And they do so in accordance with the 100% conversion of mass into energy > according to Einstein's formula, E = mc2. > > Years ago I publicly stated the extreme importance of Joseph Newman's > life work for humanity. I say so again even though I am vilified by those > who are not scientifically honest. If you are sensitive to the well-being > of humanity as am I, then please support Joseph Newman in his efforts to > bring forth mass production of his revolutionary technology. > > In conclusion, I was and am very pleased that a physicist also employed > with a Department of Energy (of a major foreign country) recently summed up > the magnitude of Joseph Newman's life work by his statement in essence > (referring to Fermi's work in the 1940s): > > "In comparison, a 400-ton Newman Energy Machine should then be able to > sustain a force of 80,000 pounds on its shaft with a power input of less > than 477 watts!" > > This honest physicist was clearly endorsing the magnitude of Joseph > Newman's longstanding statement that, "the invention can be made more than > 1000% efficient, 1,000,000% efficient, and even greater!" > > I, and an ever-growing number of other scientific individuals, totally agree. > > If we all vigorously support Joseph Newman's mass production of his > energy invention technology, then we will quickly bring forth a new, > non-polluting energy source for the forthcoming arrival of the 21st > century. Let's bring in the 21st century by supporting Joseph Newman so > that mass production will be in full operation by New Year's Eve, 1999. > > What better hope for a better 21st century for all humanity. > > [Signed] > Milton Everett > Mechanical Engineer (Retired) > Phoenix, Arizona > > NOTARIZED (9/7/99) > > ____________________ > > www.josephnewman.com -- *********************************************************** Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just... let it happen. -- Special Agent Dale Cooper ... ====================================================================== Don J.S. Adams, Overseer and Registered Agent for Domhnall C G N Adams - (Corporation Sole - Lawful Entity Name) RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 14:32:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA24732; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:31:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:31:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199909082131.RAA03024@fh105.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS. Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:26:18 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"I5yeV2.0.L26.oMjrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11829 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Instead, not only myself, but I also witnessed numerous other credible > scientific individuals verify his work. Then why can't we, the public, view and test hands-on, the Mr. Newman's motors? If we were allowed to test them ourselves, and the rest of the public allowed to witness these tests, things would likely go much easier for Newman... > All of these scientific individuals then signed Affidavits THAT JOSEPH NEWMAN'S > INVENTION WORKS AND THAT HIS MECHANICAL THEORY OF THE GYROSCOPIC PARTICLE > WAS ALSO CORRECT. Careful there. The simple fact that his motor works (let's assume here that it does) is NOT confirmation of a theory. For instance, if I say that if pollution from the mill increased, we would see more fish deaths, and then fish deaths increased, this does not prove that the mill is making more pollution. Concluding that Newman's theory is correct based on just this one experiment is a logical fallacy. > To read some of these credible and brave scientific individuals' > comments, see pages 22-48, 85-87, 113-114, 171-177, 213-216, and 227-237 of > Joseph Newman's fundamental book, THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN. The > book itself documents why we all so endorsed Joseph Newman's Life Work. Perhaps it would be better if we did not have to purchase a book to know who these individuals are, and read their comments? If you want to make money, you must first prove yourself. > I, myself, stated on a national CBS Evening News broadcast that, > "Einstein would have to take a back seat to Joseph Newman." Einstein, however, openly published his research. The same can not be said for Mr. Newman. > I have also witnessed the terrible manner in which Joseph Newman has > been treated by various agencies of our Federal Government and special > interests in industry. I have no doubt that Mr. Newman has been harassed by the scientific community, and maybe even the government. But this is no excuse for not providing a well-executed demonstration of overunity operation to the public. The use of wrong instruments, avoiding simple tests, accusations of being people out to 'steal his life's work' to people who are skeptical...need I go on? > I also challenge such individuals to test his beneficial Energy Invention for themselves or, at > the very least, obtain his fundamental book and do as he asks: MASTER IT. We have not been given the opportunity to test the device! I challenge Mr. Newman to allow this to happen. > To attack a new technology without understanding it or testing it for > yourself is not a scientific approach and is also dishonest. Agreed. But to "present" a new technology, and not allow it to be tested is just as bad. > The mechanical rightness of his Theory should be realized by anyone who > witnesses a 400-pound Motor operating on ONLY 2 watts of Input Power! Then why have we not been allowed to test the wattage input, and mechanical output? > As a person of mechanical training and years of technical service, it is > with great sincerity that I tell the people of this world that Joseph > Newman's Energy Machine will greatly benefit everyone on this planet. That is great. But do tell, when can we test this invention, and in doing so open the technology up to the world? Assuming of course that it does work. > Through a simple mechanical attachment, his Production Motors can easily > be connected to all home and industrial devices to operate them at a mere > fraction of the present cost. Through simple tests it could be confirmed/denied that it is indeed overunity. I assure Mr. Newman that he would have a much easier path to follow if he would allow these tests. > Now consider the mass production of this revolutionary technology with > its phenomenal and beneficial impact on behalf of all humanity. For all > technical individuals who are sensitive to the fact that Einstein's > mathematical work was criticized and Einstein himself belittled for years > by his contemporaries of the time, such individuals now realize that the > scientific community now takes very seriously every word written by > Einstein. Einstein published his data, and the scientific community then proceeded to test his theory critically. The results agreed, and Einstein's work was generally accepted. Newman has something of an advantage: he is performing an experiment, and could thus publish his results. A theory is refutable, but well conducted experiments are not. However, he has chosen not to allow confirmation. Why? > In conclusion, I was and am very pleased that a physicist also employed > with a Department of Energy (of a major foreign country) recently summed up > the magnitude of Joseph Newman's life work by his statement in essence > (referring to Fermi's work in the 1940s): Who? Why does this person remain anonymous? > "In comparison, a 400-ton Newman Energy Machine should then be able to > sustain a force of 80,000 pounds on its shaft with a power input of less > than 477 watts!" > > This honest physicist was clearly endorsing the magnitude of Joseph > Newman's longstanding statement that, "the invention can be made more than > 1000% efficient, 1,000,000% efficient, and even greater!" This honest physicists words are but chaff compared to being allowed to publicly test Newman's device. They prove nothing. I rarely ever post to these discussion groups...I prefer to listen quietly and gather information. This time, I had to say something. Don't take this as an insult. I am not trying to undermine science and the discovery of things that don't fit our current paradigm of understanding. I myself perform many experiments, one group of which are showing results that according to current theory, simply should not happen. However, I am not going to make claims yet, as I have not covered all of my bases to my satisfaction. If and when I do make claims, I will be sure to include information necessary to prove what I say. I ask that Newman does the same. Regards, Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 15:47:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA17346; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:43:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:43:06 -0700 Sender: THohnsbein@csi.com Message-ID: <37D6E65B.669EDD2D@csi.com> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 00:42:35 +0200 From: Tameer Hohnsbein X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [de] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L Subject: Re: TIME !!!!!! References: <003e01befa0f$32038ee0$25b6bfd1@w7o9k8> <37D6A415.32571B8A@mail.admiral.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"k1Nnb3.0.xE4.wPkrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11830 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Alexander, "Alexander V. Frolov" wrote: > > Fred Epps wrote: > > > its time constant can be OU because the secondary cannot respond with back > > emf. > > Secondary is replying for changes of the density of current. In this case > density is created as function of the time by means of digital method, i.e. > pause between impulses is changing. > > > Am I understanding that right, and have you done any experiments with > > that? > > Yes, small level is o.k. working. > > > It resembles the PMOD of Greg Watson just a bit, at > > http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/pmod.html > > > > > Yes, it is similar please, can you describe how you tested this effect? I tried the PMOD as it came up but could't see it. What did your transformer look like? What size where the coils and what material was the core made of? What currents did you put into the primary side? frequenzy? shape / risetime? Did you draw a current at the secondary and what could be seen at the primary coil? Thank you very much Greetings Tameer -- Tameer Hohnsbein Hagenring 80 D-38106 Braunschweig Germany phone: ++49 531 33 53 48 e-mail: THohnsbein@csi.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 16:22:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA28895; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:22:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:22:32 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-2-dyn17.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.102.74.32] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01fd01befa50$495fdee0$25b6bfd1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS. Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:17:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"2yVVq3.0.O37.t-krt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11831 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Don and all, Yes, I agree, this whole subject defines the term "beat a dead horse".. If there is anything more that can be said about Newman, it must be about the experiments done by Jean-louis Naudin and Stefan Hartmann, and not the black hole of the the original Newman controversy. No answers will ever come from THAT morass. I beg of you all, please do not answer or attack Newman or Soule!! This prolongs the agony. Let this creature of the undead return to its unquiet grave once more-- at least until halloween :-) Fred > > >why on earth does this stuff continue? I can't count how many times I've seen this >issue >flap up here and not be resolved.... > >Evan Soule wrote: > >> AFFIDAVIT: >> THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 20:35:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA06165; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:35:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:35:13 -0700 Message-ID: <37D72AF1.5828517B@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 20:35:14 -0700 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS. References: <01fd01befa50$495fdee0$25b6bfd1@w7o9k8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jznM91.0.9W1.mhort"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11832 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred Epps wrote: > Hi Don and all, > > Yes, I agree, this whole subject defines the term "beat a dead horse".. If > there is anything more that can be said about Newman, it must be about the > experiments done by Jean-louis Naudin and Stefan Hartmann, and not the black > hole of the the original Newman controversy. No answers will ever come from > THAT morass. I have to agree, unfortunately history teaches us that Joe Newman doesn't seem able to demonstrate that he is the self-proclaimed "Man of God" in terms of his honesty, or his demeanor! -Erik From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 20:46:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA10585; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:46:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:46:12 -0700 Message-ID: <37D72CD3.37EE9BBE@mail.admiral.ru> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 07:43:15 +0400 From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Reply-To: frolov@mail.admiral.ru Organization: Home Lab X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Newman motor sales References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3SMn42.0.7b2.4sort"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11833 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, Evan Evan Soule wrote: > After considerable testing of his Motors, he stated that: "Joseph Newman's > Motors are 200% efficient." So, if it is working and patented, let's move it in industry application, for home power source, for example. There is Russian customer who asked me for working devices. Are you ready for sales? Best regards, Alexander V. Frolov -- http://www.time-machine.spb.ru ICQ 43757451 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 20:53:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA14117; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:52:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:52:45 -0700 Message-ID: <37D72E60.B3EF77EC@mail.admiral.ru> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 07:49:52 +0400 From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Reply-To: frolov@mail.admiral.ru Organization: Home Lab X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TIME !!!!!! References: <003e01befa0f$32038ee0$25b6bfd1@w7o9k8> <37D6A415.32571B8A@mail.admiral.ru> <37D6E65B.669EDD2D@csi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7P1AY3.0.QS3.Dyort"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11834 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tameer Hohnsbein wrote: > please, can you describe how you tested this effect? I tried the PMOD as it came > up but could't see it. What did your transformer look like? What size where the > coils and what material was the core made of? What currents did you put into the > primary side? frequenzy? shape / risetime? Did you draw a current at the secondary > and what could be seen at the primary > coil? > It is technology aspects and it is not important. If you have standard laboratory generator of signals and you can test what is the power input and output, I would like to recomend unipolar pulses of 30KHz and modulated ratio "impulse-to-pause" by sinusoidal law with 3KHz. So, the density of current is sinusoidal function of 3KHz. I made it in 1994-1995 and it was self-made electronics. Alexander -- http://www.time-machine.spb.ru ICQ 43757451 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 22:11:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA02541; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:11:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:11:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:11:38 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: mcmcm@earthlink.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Transformer (?) to good home Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"NpDQC2.0.cd.B6qrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11835 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:40:33 -0700 From: mark mcmillan To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: Comments from Amateur Science > Do you know of anyone in the LA CA (Pasadena) area that needs a very > large 15000vac >.2amp may be .5amp, with satrable reactor to control the > power output. I am cleaning out my garage and will give it > away (adults only as this thing can kill) but shiping would be very > costly. Also includes a 4ft+ rack. This would make a big Tesla Coil. > 8 weeks is a long time but I have a lot to get rid of and I work solw. > Thanks for your time. Hi Mark! This is a transformer for 120VAC input, right? Like the burn-in transformers used in neon sign shops? I'll forward this to freenrg-L and see if there are any takers. They should contact mcmcm@earthlink.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 05:52:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA02956; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:51:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:51:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199909091349.OAA13413@maria.ctv.es> Old-X-Envelope-To: From: "Vicente Jose Ramos" To: Subject: RE: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS. Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:44:59 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YLtzU2.0.5k.grwrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11836 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all This device is only another smoke courtain to stop advances in F/E research. (Other devices makes the same; Bedini generators, Hammel discs, Searl generators, Johnson magnetic generators, Adams generators, and all devices USING MAGNETS. Vicente. ---------- > De: Evan Soule > A: freenrg-L@eskimo.com > Asunto: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS. > Fecha: miércoles 8 de septiembre de 1999 21:14 > > AFFIDAVIT: > THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS. > > THE UNIFIED, GYROSCOPIC MECHANICAL FIELD THEORY > OF JOSEPH NEWMAN IS ALSO CORRECT. > > The following is the truthful statements of myself, Milton Everett, a > Mechanical Engineer. At the time that I met Joseph Newman, I was working > for the Mississippi Department of Energy. > > I first visited Joseph Newman's home in Mississippi for the purpose of > proving him wrong. > > Instead, not only myself, but I also witnessed numerous other credible > scientific individuals verify his work. Like myself, these individuals > initially disbelieved the technology and then listened to Joseph Newman's > Mechanical Unified Field Theory. They then tested several crude prototypes > with oscilloscopes, torque tests, heat tests while comparing the > performance of Joseph Newman's Motor/Generator to conventional Motors. All > of these scientific individuals then signed Affidavits THAT JOSEPH NEWMAN'S > INVENTION WORKS AND THAT HIS MECHANICAL THEORY OF THE GYROSCOPIC PARTICLE > WAS ALSO CORRECT. > > To read some of these credible and brave scientific individuals' > comments, see pages 22-48, 85-87, 113-114, 171-177, 213-216, and 227-237 of > Joseph Newman's fundamental book, THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN. The > book itself documents why we all so endorsed Joseph Newman's Life Work. > > I was so impressed with Joseph Newman and his Mechanical Field Theory of > the Gyroscopic Particle that I influenced the premier electrical engineer > of Mississippi State University to travel with me to Joseph Newman's home. > After considerable testing of his Motors, he stated that: "Joseph Newman's > Motors are 200% efficient." > > I, myself, stated on a national CBS Evening News broadcast that, > "Einstein would have to take a back seat to Joseph Newman." > > I have also witnessed the terrible manner in which Joseph Newman has > been treated by various agencies of our Federal Government and special > interests in industry. > > I have now tested his Production Prototype located in the Phoenix area > where I am now retired. > > I have not written details of testing as I have for years witnessed the > denial by others (who did not test Joseph Newman's Motor) of my test and > those of numerous other credible scientific individuals. But I do > challenge all thinking individuals to come and hear for themselves Joseph > Newman's Mechanical Gyroscopic Explanation of many different > previously-unexplained phenomena in science. I also challenge such > individuals to test his beneficial Energy Invention for themselves or, at > the very least, obtain his fundamental book and do as he asks: MASTER IT. > To attack a new technology without understanding it or testing it for > yourself is not a scientific approach and is also dishonest. > > I will now provide an eye-opening example of the significance of Joseph > Newman's technology: > > Unnecessary friction losses found in the relatively-crude, hand-built > Production Motor are tremendously greater than the Input Power at 100 volts > which operates the Newman Motor without any torque load on the Motor's > shaft. > > We are talking about a magnitude of 1200% more unnecessary friction > losses than Input Power. Of course, those unnecessary friction losses can > easily be removed on the final, machine-built Production Motors. > > As any mechanical engineer is taught in the first years of Mechanics, > such astounding results are impossible by conventional teachings. > > Yet these results occur exactly as predicted by Joseph Newman many years > earlier when he originally formulated his Theory of the Gyroscopic Particle > and Mechanical Unified Field Theory. > > The mechanical rightness of his Theory should be realized by anyone who > witnesses a 400-pound Motor operating on ONLY 2 watts of Input Power! > > As a person of mechanical training and years of technical service, it is > with great sincerity that I tell the people of this world that Joseph > Newman's Energy Machine will greatly benefit everyone on this planet. > > Through a simple mechanical attachment, his Production Motors can easily > be connected to all home and industrial devices to operate them at a mere > fraction of the present cost. > > What Joseph Newman has innovated is totally opposite to conventional > mechanical teachings with respect to motorized devices. Such devices use > more and more power as such conventional motors become larger. With Joseph > Newman's revolutionary mechanical technology, as his motors become larger > they produce more and more power and use LESS AND LESS POWER! > > Now consider the mass production of this revolutionary technology with > its phenomenal and beneficial impact on behalf of all humanity. For all > technical individuals who are sensitive to the fact that Einstein's > mathematical work was criticized and Einstein himself belittled for years > by his contemporaries of the time, such individuals now realize that the > scientific community now takes very seriously every word written by > Einstein. > > Joseph Newman and his life's work has been treated in a similar fashion > --- except more so. > > The history of scientific breakthroughs proves that such treatment was > the norm, not the exception. As we enter the 21st century, is this any way > for humanity and those individuals who claim to be scientists wish to treat > our most beneficial and creative individuals? > > I ask for all scientific individuals and people throughout the world to > support Joseph Newman. By virtue of extensive tests conducted on his many > prototypes over the years (as well as the recent solar panel tests) his > Production Motor is CLEARLY OVER 100% EFFICIENT. All of which proves that > his Motors fundamentally operate on VOLTAGE and not on current or wattage. > And they do so in accordance with the 100% conversion of mass into energy > according to Einstein's formula, E = mc2. > > Years ago I publicly stated the extreme importance of Joseph Newman's > life work for humanity. I say so again even though I am vilified by those > who are not scientifically honest. If you are sensitive to the well-being > of humanity as am I, then please support Joseph Newman in his efforts to > bring forth mass production of his revolutionary technology. > > In conclusion, I was and am very pleased that a physicist also employed > with a Department of Energy (of a major foreign country) recently summed up > the magnitude of Joseph Newman's life work by his statement in essence > (referring to Fermi's work in the 1940s): > > "In comparison, a 400-ton Newman Energy Machine should then be able to > sustain a force of 80,000 pounds on its shaft with a power input of less > than 477 watts!" > > This honest physicist was clearly endorsing the magnitude of Joseph > Newman's longstanding statement that, "the invention can be made more than > 1000% efficient, 1,000,000% efficient, and even greater!" > > I, and an ever-growing number of other scientific individuals, totally agree. > > If we all vigorously support Joseph Newman's mass production of his > energy invention technology, then we will quickly bring forth a new, > non-polluting energy source for the forthcoming arrival of the 21st > century. Let's bring in the 21st century by supporting Joseph Newman so > that mass production will be in full operation by New Year's Eve, 1999. > > What better hope for a better 21st century for all humanity. > > [Signed] > Milton Everett > Mechanical Engineer (Retired) > Phoenix, Arizona > > NOTARIZED (9/7/99) > > > ____________________ > > www.josephnewman.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 06:05:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA08766; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:05:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:05:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:05:08 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: tap-l , list physics teaching , sciclub-list@eskimo.com cc: webhead-l@eskimo.com Subject: Large neodymiums on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"eK3iq2.0.b82.C2xrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11837 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=156955963 (Thanks Merlin!) These are 1.44" x 1.24" x .24" arc-shaped magnets. Look carefully at those measurements! Magnets this large would make for very interesting experiments or science demos. However, if you don't know how to handle them, they are an accident waiting to happen. Also, you might encounter trouble trying to ship them (USPO won't ship big magnets, but UPS might consider it.) Note that the instigator at http://www.wondermagnet.com/dev/magnets.html is a small "magnet recycler" company which disassembles all sorts of motors, diskdrives, etc., and sells inexpensive surplus NIB magnets for educators and experimenters. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 06:40:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA19856; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:40:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:40:07 -0700 Message-ID: <000501befac9$1a072940$b69afea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: , "tap-l" , "list physics teaching" , Cc: References: Subject: Re: Large neodymiums on eBay Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:42:02 -0500 Organization: N.E.S. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"e8pE32.0.wr4.sYxrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11838 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: William Beaty To: tap-l ; list physics teaching ; Cc: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 8:05 AM Subject: Large neodymiums on eBay > them, they are an accident waiting to happen. Also, you might encounter > trouble trying to ship them (USPO won't ship big magnets, but UPS might > consider it.) > YES! all so true. After going through typical government PO workers was told shipping of magnets was OK, did not know of any restrictions. Then when attempting to mail same all hell comes into focus. Excuse now is that it affects air navigation and can't allow them on planes. Packages for overseas as (Last Instructed) must be marked "Contains Magnetic Material". Customs now getting into the act, Next expect ATF. Looks like we may return all funds for TMB kits as a slow boat to China does not seem practical for us or the developer. > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 07:03:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA26835; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:03:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:03:32 -0700 Message-ID: <002501befacc$5fd4b340$b69afea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: "Free Energy" Subject: No shipment of TMB Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:05:28 -0500 Organization: N.E.S. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"vfkin.0.8Z6.ouxrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11839 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I just had 5 TMB kits rejected by the US Post Office because they contain magnetic materials. This is the third time we have received conflicting information from them, although this was from the Postmaster. Additionally I was informed that some countries will not allow through customs packages which contain magnetic materials. For those of you that have sent payment for a kit, your funds are being prepared for return on 9/10/99 if we can not resolve this problem. Shipping by truck and boat is out of the question. My question to all is, just what in the hell is going on in this country that controls are being added daily to inhibit everything we attempt to do ? Ron.S Nu-Energy Systems Conquest is the beginning, enjoying the win is the real battle. http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 07:09:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA28577; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:08:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:08:58 -0700 Message-ID: <702108980221D311B3CF0080C87822728553@ADMIN2.mt.co.gg> From: Paul Smith To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Large neodymiums on eBay Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:02:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Reply-To: pjsmith@microtech.co.gg Resent-Message-ID: <"cjkCi1.0.P-6.vzxrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11840 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The add does state they are shipped in metal boxes..... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: William Beaty > To: tap-l ; list physics teaching > ; > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 8:05 AM > Subject: Large neodymiums on eBay > > > > them, they are an accident waiting to happen. Also, you > might encounter > > trouble trying to ship them (USPO won't ship big magnets, > but UPS might > > consider it.) > > > > YES! all so true. After going through typical government PO > workers was told > shipping of magnets was OK, did not know of any restrictions. > Then when > attempting to mail same all hell comes into focus. Excuse now > is that it > affects air navigation and can't allow them on planes. > > Packages for overseas as (Last Instructed) must be marked > "Contains Magnetic > Material". Customs now getting into the act, Next expect ATF. > > Looks like we may return all funds for TMB kits as a slow > boat to China does > not seem practical for us or the developer. > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 07:22:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA01499; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:22:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:22:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:22:02 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: atg0317 cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Large neodymiums on eBay In-Reply-To: <000501befac9$1a072940$b69afea9@fs11> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"wSvFq3.0.KN.BAyrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11841 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, atg0317 wrote: > Looks like we may return all funds for TMB kits as a slow boat to China does > not seem practical for us or the developer. If you have a magnetometer, you might consider designing a simple shield which forces the b-field flux into a closed circle. I've taken large NIB magnets on flights I was on (and would rather not be flying in circles, following a warped compass!) I lay the NIB magnets side by side in attractive mode, then either place small steel blocks across their ends, or place the whole assembly inside a piece of iron water pipe. Use a compass and see how close the magnets need to be before the compass visibly deflects. If the field of your magnets is reliably and totally inclosed, I see no reason why the shipping companies should object. After all, they ship large DC PM motors all the time. The fields inside these motors are enormous, but outside the motors they are practically zero. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 07:56:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA14903; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:55:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:55:41 -0700 From: DEADWATE@aol.com Message-ID: <6c32e3dc.2509243a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:54:50 EDT Subject: Newman, Newman, Newman! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 22 Resent-Message-ID: <"kYPux3.0.ie3.ifyrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11842 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: As the saying goes, "It takes all kinds" Why play the game if you do not like it? I agree with Mr. Epps, ignor Mr. Newman. And as for his Engineer? As P.T. Barnum said, "There is one born every minute" or perhaps he shook hands with Al Zimmer once too often? Deadwate From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 08:32:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA25463; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:31:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:31:53 -0700 Message-ID: <002b01befad8$5e327e80$3e30b5cc@s.boster> From: "S. Boster" To: Subject: Re: No shipment of TMB Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:31:17 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"yeF0E3.0.mD6.fBzrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11843 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: So that you can ship magnets, the rest of us can't ship recorded magnetic materials (tapes, diskettes, etc.)?!?! Scott -----Original Message----- From: atg0317 To: Free Energy Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 7:08 AM Subject: No shipment of TMB >I just had 5 TMB kits rejected by the US Post Office because they contain >magnetic materials. This is the third time we have received conflicting >information from them, although this was from the Postmaster. > >Additionally I was informed that some countries will not allow through >customs packages which contain magnetic materials. > >For those of you that have sent payment for a kit, your funds are being >prepared for return on 9/10/99 if we can not resolve this problem. Shipping >by truck and boat is out of the question. > >My question to all is, just what in the hell is going on in this country >that controls are being added daily to inhibit everything we attempt to do ? > >Ron.S > > >Nu-Energy Systems >Conquest is the beginning, enjoying the win is the real battle. >http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/index.htm > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 09:08:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA04564; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:07:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:07:49 -0700 Message-ID: <000701befadd$bd9aae60$b69afea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: References: <002b01befad8$5e327e80$3e30b5cc@s.boster> Subject: Re: No shipment of TMB Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:09:47 -0500 Organization: N.E.S. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"zLzgr2.0.971.Kjzrt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11844 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: We were told when checking with postal employees that they were not aware of any restrictions for shipping magnets. I questions that in that we are only able to obtain our supply by ground transportation from out supplier. We were advised that if they were small (no reference to tesla, gauss, weber etc.,) only physical size that they were sure it would be okay. What happened was I took 5 kits in cardboard 2-day Express mail envelopes to the post office for mailing. When the postal employee weighed the first envelope and it stuck to his scales, the question arose (What's in it ?) After much heated debate the Postmaster was called and he stated that I could not ship by air as the magnets could cause navigation problem for the aircraft. I guess they never heard of Loran, SatNav/GPS and Inertia, anyway I did not get the items sent. In fact I almost ended in jail due to my adamant response to this authority. I am at this time attempting to follow up on what the guidelines and standards are, there must exist some written information on what constitutes what can and can not be shipped. I doubt is some arbitrary problem. Hey! I ship floppies, HD's and a whole host of other equipment which contain magnetic materials and to date have never had a problem. ----- Original Message ----- From: S. Boster To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 10:31 AM Subject: Re: No shipment of TMB > So that you can ship magnets, the rest of us can't ship recorded > magnetic materials (tapes, diskettes, etc.)?!?! > > Scott > > -----Original Message----- > From: atg0317 > To: Free Energy > Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 7:08 AM > Subject: No shipment of TMB > > > >I just had 5 TMB kits rejected by the US Post Office because they > contain > >magnetic materials. This is the third time we have received conflicting > >information from them, although this was from the Postmaster. > > > >Additionally I was informed that some countries will not allow through > >customs packages which contain magnetic materials. > > > >For those of you that have sent payment for a kit, your funds are being > >prepared for return on 9/10/99 if we can not resolve this problem. > Shipping > >by truck and boat is out of the question. > > > >My question to all is, just what in the hell is going on in this > country > >that controls are being added daily to inhibit everything we attempt to > do ? > > > >Ron.S > > > > > >Nu-Energy Systems > >Conquest is the beginning, enjoying the win is the real battle. > >http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/index.htm > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 09:56:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA22848; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:55:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:55:06 -0700 Message-ID: <002701befae4$59691920$b69afea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Naudin's PTF motor Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:57:06 -0500 Organization: N.E.S. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ic7I72.0.va5.gP-rt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11845 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I assume when he speaks of 5-20uA this is a current supplied by the 28kv power supply ? If this is so then the input power is P=EI, which is 2.8E4 X 2E-5 = 0.56W or 560mW, or did I see something else here ? Nu-Energy Systems Conquest is the beginning, enjoying the win is the real battle. http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 10:08:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA29563; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:07:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:07:58 -0700 Message-ID: <001201befae6$25598b40$b69afea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Fw: TIME !!!!!! Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:09:57 -0500 Organization: N.E.S. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"5z9bq1.0.qD7.kb-rt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11846 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: atg0317 To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 11:42 AM Subject: Re: TIME !!!!!! > Something I did not indicate in the last mail on this subject was that we > used a computer and interface board driving a current driver to supply our > driving signal. This allows for a much faster way of determining what is > going on than a pulse generator in sweep mode. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Alexander V. Frolov > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 10:49 PM > Subject: Re: TIME !!!!!! > > > > Tameer Hohnsbein wrote: > > > > > please, can you describe how you tested this effect? I tried the PMOD as > it came > > > up but could't see it. What did your transformer look like? What size > where the > > > coils and what material was the core made of? What currents did you put > into the > > > primary side? frequenzy? shape / risetime? Did you draw a current at the > secondary > > > and what could be seen at the primary > > > coil? > > > > > > > It is technology aspects and it is not important. If you have standard > laboratory > > generator of signals and you can test what is the power input and output, > I would > > like to recomend unipolar pulses of 30KHz and modulated ratio > "impulse-to-pause" by > > sinusoidal law with 3KHz. So, the density of current is sinusoidal > function of 3KHz. > > > > I made it in 1994-1995 and it was self-made electronics. > > > > Alexander > > > > -- > > http://www.time-machine.spb.ru > > ICQ 43757451 > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 10:09:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA29725; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:08:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:08:22 -0700 Message-ID: <001801befae6$2ed844e0$b69afea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Fw: TIME !!!!!! Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:10:13 -0500 Organization: N.E.S. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"-1OCA2.0.4G7.5c-rt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11847 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: atg0317 To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 11:42 AM Subject: Re: TIME !!!!!! > Something I did not indicate in the last mail on this subject was that we > used a computer and interface board driving a current driver to supply our > driving signal. This allows for a much faster way of determining what is > going on than a pulse generator in sweep mode. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Alexander V. Frolov > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 10:49 PM > Subject: Re: TIME !!!!!! > > > > Tameer Hohnsbein wrote: > > > > > please, can you describe how you tested this effect? I tried the PMOD as > it came > > > up but could't see it. What did your transformer look like? What size > where the > > > coils and what material was the core made of? What currents did you put > into the > > > primary side? frequenzy? shape / risetime? Did you draw a current at the > secondary > > > and what could be seen at the primary > > > coil? > > > > > > > It is technology aspects and it is not important. If you have standard > laboratory > > generator of signals and you can test what is the power input and output, > I would > > like to recomend unipolar pulses of 30KHz and modulated ratio > "impulse-to-pause" by > > sinusoidal law with 3KHz. So, the density of current is sinusoidal > function of 3KHz. > > > > I made it in 1994-1995 and it was self-made electronics. > > > > Alexander > > > > -- > > http://www.time-machine.spb.ru > > ICQ 43757451 > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 10:10:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA31297; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:10:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:10:06 -0700 Message-ID: <002c01befae6$71fd4b80$b69afea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Fw: TIME !!!!!! Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:12:06 -0500 Organization: N.E.S. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"5js-H1.0.se7.kd-rt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11848 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: atg0317 To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 11:38 AM Subject: Re: TIME !!!!!! > Significant difference is seen in response and depend on the core itself, > torous, solid ferrite composition or laminated core. Saturation is a > variable which requires consideration. You may need to do a little math to > arrive at input/output power as this particular input and distorted output > does not bode well for standard measurement. > > Our own look into a similar area indicated that a lot of technological > problem need to be solved before your going to power your house with the > approach. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Alexander V. Frolov > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 10:49 PM > Subject: Re: TIME !!!!!! > > > > Tameer Hohnsbein wrote: > > > > > please, can you describe how you tested this effect? I tried the PMOD as > it came > > > up but could't see it. What did your transformer look like? What size > where the > > > coils and what material was the core made of? What currents did you put > into the > > > primary side? frequenzy? shape / risetime? Did you draw a current at the > secondary > > > and what could be seen at the primary > > > coil? > > > > > > > It is technology aspects and it is not important. If you have standard > laboratory > > generator of signals and you can test what is the power input and output, > I would > > like to recomend unipolar pulses of 30KHz and modulated ratio > "impulse-to-pause" by > > sinusoidal law with 3KHz. So, the density of current is sinusoidal > function of 3KHz. > > > > I made it in 1994-1995 and it was self-made electronics. > > > > Alexander > > > > -- > > http://www.time-machine.spb.ru > > ICQ 43757451 > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 10:44:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA11999; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:42:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:42:39 -0700 From: "Martin" To: Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS. Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:51:01 +0200 Message-ID: <01befad2$bbeb78c0$LocalHost@Martin.icon.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"NqqzY2.0.Ox2.F6_rt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11849 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >why on earth does this stuff continue? I can't count how many times I've seen this >issue >flap up here and not be resolved.... Actually I thought it was supposed to be taken off list. All it seems to do is inflame tempers. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 10:58:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA17623; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:57:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:57:51 -0700 From: UNIR2B1@aol.com Message-ID: <78031e6d.25094eb0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:56:00 EDT Subject: Ultra-pure water, with A/C as a by-product...? To: dwenbert@spacey.net CC: elebra@hotmail.com (Mattias), Eliria99@aol.com, ewall@infinite-energy.com (Ed Wall), FRANKARTINVENT@webtv.net (FRANK HOLMQUIST), freenrg-l@eskimo.com, gdraper@bellsouth.net, goldbug@worldaccessnet.com, hamdix@verisoft.com.tr (hamdi ucar), heatherti@mindspring.com (Heather and Andrew Tinley), Henry.Scudder@West.Boeing.com.Scudder, Henry.J@aol.com, herman@antioch-college.edu (John Schnurer), homer@abac.com (John H.St.John), housed@indiana.edu (David House), intelife@pop.globaldialog.com (JADE), InTheShadows@onelist.com, jdo@ucalgary.ca (Jorg D. Ostrowski), jham@iahf.com, jkinsley@beyond-the-illusion.com, johnhoffman@webtv.net, JohnHunter@hotmail.com (John Hunter), julier@maxwell.ucsc.edu (Julie Reiner), Kedo@phnx.uswest.net (Kelly Larsen), kmohler@frii.com (Karen Mohler) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"lgvLL1.0.GJ4.UK_rt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11850 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The following missive, which I just faxed to a friend who's a NASA contractor, is self-explanitory; any data contributions would be appreciated! I just thought of another feature: insofar as PRODUCED water would be mineral-free, it might be appreciably *acid* and useful as a disinfectant, soil conditioner, etc.; perhaps obviating the need for stockpiling apple cider vinegar. For potability, sea salt could be added--it has the same mineral profile as dessicated & powdered human cells. --Russ PS -- I hope you'll agree that at this critical juncture in human evolution, we should share truths equally and overthrow "the Beast" collectively, rather than individually withholding essential innovations for reasons of short-sighted profiteering. (I’m not denigrating capitalism per se--money itself was never intended to be politically controlled by an entity like the Federal Reserve and its global counterparts.) Although you might not believe it (indeed, you’re not *supposed* to) the “powers that be” methodically restrain progress through bribery, censorship, IRS audits and assassinations. As a result, money cannot at present buy the kinds of wonders that would become commonplace if the *general* condition of the Earth and its population were enhanced. When an *individual* attempts to hoard or patent an easily reproducible breakthrough against human privation and dependency, he makes it easy for “them” to quash it. Only through immediate dissemination over the web & alternative media will such discoveries see daylight. 99% of America’s water is polluted (compare that to Canada’s 20%!). Moreover, municipal water shortages are viewed as the prime Y2K threat. The following methodology, for which I’m soliciting any investigative assistance, might provide a lifetime of the purest water possible with only battery power, a gas tank and some plumbing; one of the simplest among *many* innovations that could--IF we adopted far-sighted priorities--prove to be ecologically, macro-economically and geopolitically consequential. PPS -- I now have contact info for the inventor of the putative, air-source, A/C-water device mentioned below. I'll disclose what I can without promulgating intellectual property against his will. ------------------------------------------------------------- Hi, Jack-- Let’s recap: You et al accidentally discovered that hydrogen and oxygen, having been electrolyzed from water in a continuous-flow, straight (NON-pulsed) DC apparatus invented some 50 years ago by Henes, can be re-combined into ultra-pure water NO catalyst, only venturi turbulence (i.e., a welding nozzle). My two local families and many other friends are seeking an urgent recommendation about solar eqpt. and *water purification*. The Palmer membrane removes chemicals prodigiously, and I can get Katadyn Drip Filters wholesale, but I’ve been holding out for developments that are free of replaceable, technologically manufactured parts. WRT DIY-able projects, this quest has redounded to “cyclone separators”, which I’ve recently disqualified as purifiers, and hydrogen/electrolysis technology, which is particularly attractive because it can be powered by solar energy and can produce pure water while doing work. If the Henes device produces sufficient CFM of diatomic H2 & O2 (not hydroxy or ‘Brown’s gas’) with frugal amp-hour consumption, it could represent the ‘breakthrough’ I’ve sought. Water re-combination without a flame might present an interesting by-product, COOLING--IF the electrolyzed gasses were stable enough permit pre-pressurization in the tank. Hydroxy is stable up to 100 psi; I don’t know about a 2:1 mixture of the diatomic gasses. In any case, the H2 & O2 can be separated by an inexpensive, DuPont membrane material, but skipping this step would be fantastic if possible. Of course, an H/O flame produces water, too, along with *heat*, which rounds out the package. The Henes-Weeks methodology might therefore lie at the heart of a heating/cooling/water-producing device that's supposedly under development, using air--not water--as the source (pure water & A/C from air + electricity?). Perhaps it similarly re-combines *atmospheric* H2 & O2 with the N sequestered by Zeolite (after the input air is de-humidified). It would be interesting to see if & how they’ve managed to reduce the requisite power consumption to a level that’s compatible with a tenably-sized solar system. You mentioned a diagram; my fax / tel # is 256-546-5945. However, replicating the effect will require measurements, specs, etc. When can I see this thing? Thanks very much! Regards, Russ cell. 256-490-4158 UNIR2B1@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 11:15:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA23452; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:11:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:11:27 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Large neodymiums on eBay Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:18:26 -0400 Message-ID: <19990909181826296.AAA85@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"tLQZJ2.0.Lk5.FX_rt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11851 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I lay the NIB magnets side by side in attractive mode, then either place >small steel blocks across their ends, or place the whole assembly inside >a piece of iron water pipe. Couple of things. One, I think airport security personnel may be trained to go ballistic if they see any closed iron water pipe in customer luggage or packages. If you are flying with Neodymium, you might want to arrive at the airport earlier than normal, and check-in your bags first. That way if there is a problem, you have time to open them up for the security personnel and show them that the pipe is not a bomb. Put the pipe in the checked bags, as there is probably no way they would let you keep something like that in carry-on luggage. Carry-on luggage is much more thoroughly searched, especially if you fit any of the kneejerk profiles (e.i. don't wear pajama's or shave your head and eyebrows like some of my friends have done). It would leave the possibility open for you to open the pipe after the plane left the ground, and they can't allow that. Since airport security is contracted these days, and the personnel are paid as little as possible, don't expect to have any lasting physics discussions about the safety of your short piece of closed iron water pipe, either. They still may just site a regulation and dissallow the magnets, but at least by arriving early and giving them the chance to discover and discuss the magnets, you won't get completely bumped from your flight. Two, this is a question, actually. Roughly 25% of Neodymium in its natural state is composed of an isotope that is radioactive. You've mentioned before that the when the magnets are made, the radioactivity goes away. Most of my magnets are in motors, and my Geiger counter is still in a box somewhere so I haven't gotten around to checking this out myself. Have you seen any references to that phenomenon on the internet? Does that work for any radioactive material? Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 12:29:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA24704; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:29:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:29:43 -0700 Message-ID: <37D80C31.502D@lcia.com> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 15:36:17 -0400 From: B25B@LCIA.COM (RON BRENNEN) Reply-To: b25b@LCIA.COM X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: No shipment of TMB References: <002b01befad8$5e327e80$3e30b5cc@s.boster> <000701befadd$bd9aae60$b69afea9@fs11> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DQILt1.0.p16.dg0st"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11852 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: atg0317 wrote: > > We were told when checking with postal employees that they were not aware of > any restrictions for shipping magnets. I questions that in that we are only > able to obtain our supply by ground transportation from out supplier. We > were advised that if they were small (no reference to tesla, gauss, weber > etc.,) only physical size that they were sure it would be okay. > > What happened was I took 5 kits in cardboard 2-day Express mail envelopes to > the post office for mailing. When the postal employee weighed the first > envelope and it stuck to his scales, the question arose (What's in it ?) > After much heated debate the Postmaster was called and he stated that I > could not ship by air as the magnets could cause navigation problem for the > aircraft. I guess they never heard of Loran, SatNav/GPS and Inertia, anyway > I did not get the items sent. In fact I almost ended in jail due to my > adamant response to this authority. > > I am at this time attempting to follow up on what the guidelines and > standards are, there must exist some written information on what constitutes > what can and can not be shipped. I doubt is some arbitrary problem. > > Hey! I ship floppies, HD's and a whole host of other equipment which contain > magnetic materials and to date have never had a problem. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: S. Boster > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 10:31 AM > Subject: Re: No shipment of TMB > > > So that you can ship magnets, the rest of us can't ship recorded > > magnetic materials (tapes, diskettes, etc.)?!?! > > > > Scott > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: atg0317 > > To: Free Energy > > Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 7:08 AM > > Subject: No shipment of TMB > > > > > > >I just had 5 TMB kits rejected by the US Post Office because they > > contain > > >magnetic materials. This is the third time we have received conflicting > > >information from them, although this was from the Postmaster. > > > > > >Additionally I was informed that some countries will not allow through > > >customs packages which contain magnetic materials. > > > > > >For those of you that have sent payment for a kit, your funds are being > > >prepared for return on 9/10/99 if we can not resolve this problem. > > Shipping > > >by truck and boat is out of the question. > > > > > >My question to all is, just what in the hell is going on in this > > country > > >that controls are being added daily to inhibit everything we attempt to > > do ? > > > > > >Ron.S I have shipped large NIB magnets by post ofice by placing them in the center of a large carton with 12" of space all around. I have had no problem. Ron > > > > > >Nu-Energy Systems > > >Conquest is the beginning, enjoying the win is the real battle. > > >http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/index.htm > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 13:03:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA09729; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:02:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:02:25 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:01:45 EDT Subject: PLEASE READ THIS! To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, edk@rayflex.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"FWZkT2.0.wN2.G91st"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11853 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: NOTE: THIS IS BEING UPLOADED TO WEB SITE TONIGHT I have designed a very unique layout that does something I think we have trying to accomplish for a long time, a near continous flux gradient. The gradient wants to turn the shaft of this motor/generator with torque that is strong and near continous. This torque is very, very, strong and is in one direction and smooth in it's operation. It can operate as a permanent magnet motor or as a motor that also produces electrial power. I first designed a simple two disk layout (iron) (each disk shaped like a "half moon", or 180 degrees of a circle). Between the two disks is a rotor with one permanent magnet on the outer part of the rotor. On the opposite side of the rotor, directly across from the permanent magnet, is an iron rod. Between the two is a permanent magnet who's flux goes to the iron rod when the outer magnet rotates out from between the two disk plates. REMEMBER THAT THE DISKS ARE IN A WEDGE LAYOUT, THAT IS, AS THE ROTOR ROTATES COUNTER CLOCKWISE THE GAP BETWEEN THE PLATES IS LARGEST AS THE MAGNET OR IRON ROD ROTATE INTO THE PLATE GAP. AS THE MAGNET OR IRON ROD ROTATE AROUND, THE GAP GETS SMALLER, AND IS MOST NARROW AS THE MAGNET OR IRON ROD EXIT THE PLATES AFTER ROTATING ABOUT 180 DEGREES. THIS TAPER CAUSES A COUNTER CLOCKWISE TORQUE ON THE ROTOR. Now, as the iron rod approaches the narrow part of the gap, the permanent magnet on the opposite side of the rotor diverts the flux from the center magnet and the iron rod is free to leave the gap with no drag (I have tested this theory and it' works just perfect, but the outer permanent magnet needs to be stronger that the center magnet). At the same time the taper shape is making the magnet be pulled to the narrow part of the disk taper. Now you will say that at this point the magnet will lock at this point. Yes it will if left in this lawout, but if you place a second segment, just like the first, on a common shaft inline with the first segment and stagger the outer magnet a few degrees behind the first segment magnet, then it will want to pull the first segment thru this locking area. Now if you place more segments inline on a common shaft, the greater the torque to push the first magnet thru the locking area. What is very interesting here is the smaller the stagger in degrees between the segments and the greater the number of segments, the closer the system approaches a continous torque gradient. As all the permanent magnets rotate out of the disk then the iron rods are between the plates and act just as magnets would (they are getting flux from center magnet now) and pull the rotor around till the permanent magnets rotate around again to the narrow part of the taper. If induction coils are placed around the iron rods the collapse of the magnetic field during the flux diversion process will cause the iron rod to pull even harder into the narrow part of the taper, and after the flux diversion is complete the rod is free to rotate away from the disk as it is no longer magnetic. NOW, if you look at the motor from the end view and remember that each segment has only ONE rotor with ONE permanent magnet on the rotor edge, ONE center magnet, and ONE iron rod opposite the outer magnet and think in 3D, you will see the segments behind all in a stack with their rotors staggered to give a near continous torque. The greater the number of segnents, the greater the torque and the more the gradient approaches a continous torque. A ten foot long motor would have a tremendous torque as you can see. My web page has drawings of motor and motor/generator and also a drawing of the test I did to prove the flux switching. Email me any comments, and web page is at: LaFonte Research site 1 or http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 13:07:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA12067; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:07:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:07:13 -0700 Message-ID: <003901befaff$2e6618c0$8d81fea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Unknown. Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:09:10 -0500 Organization: N.E.S. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"buEvP3.0.Iy2.mD1st"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11854 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'm sure a number or list participants are well enough versed in the internet and protocol, but for those that are not a hint or two. I (We when the group was together) and I still do receive masked mailings. Masked mailings are email messages that appear to come from a particular individual, when in fact they do not, and are signed with a phony originating address. I hate certificates as they only allow much easier tracing of ones activity, although without one you are only adding a couple of seconds processing to still resolve monitoring. What's my point! I receive one or more masked emails a day. In addition I am aware of my outgoing mail being routed through a secondary channel of unknown origin. My ISP stated he has no knowledge of such routing, yet for those monitors rest assured I was not born with a hay seed my a__, or am I stupid enough to not realize what is going on here. >From a paranoid schizophrenic beware world, we are not alone. Nu-Energy Systems Conquest is the beginning, enjoying the win is the real battle. http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 13:56:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31578; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:56:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:56:05 -0700 Message-ID: <19990909205532.30936.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.254.227.15] From: "Timothy Flytcher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS. Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 13:55:32 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"U57cD2.0.Jj7.ax1st"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11855 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi all >This device is only another smoke courtain to stop advances in F/E >research. >(Other devices makes the same; Bedini generators, Hammel discs, Searl >generators, Johnson magnetic generators, Adams generators, and all devices >USING MAGNETS. > >Vicente. Dear Vicente, Please allow me to disagree... I see his intentions as just a way to make money... and if he has to lie cheat and steel... so be it... for if it worked,as advertized, it would make more money than he could possibly use... Timothy... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 14:23:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA07404; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:23:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:23:29 -0700 Sender: THohnsbein@csi.com Message-ID: <37D82508.6FA8EAA@csi.com> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 23:22:16 +0200 From: Tameer Hohnsbein X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [de] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: TIME !!!!!! References: <001201befae6$25598b40$b69afea9@fs11> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_2BZb1.0.bp1.GL2st"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11856 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: That's nearly the same what I intended to do, take a microcontroller that has a pulse with modulation unit on chip and put the output into a current driver built with fast power mosfets. The question for me still is what core material will be best: iron laminations, ferrite, ... atg0317 schrieb: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: atg0317 > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 11:42 AM > Subject: Re: TIME !!!!!! > > > Something I did not indicate in the last mail on this subject was that we > > used a computer and interface board driving a current driver to supply our > > driving signal. This allows for a much faster way of determining what is > > going on than a pulse generator in sweep mode. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Alexander V. Frolov > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 10:49 PM > > Subject: Re: TIME !!!!!! > > > > > > > Tameer Hohnsbein wrote: > > > > > > > please, can you describe how you tested this effect? I tried the PMOD > as > > it came > > > > up but could't see it. What did your transformer look like? What size > > where the > > > > coils and what material was the core made of? What currents did you > put > > into the > > > > primary side? frequenzy? shape / risetime? Did you draw a current at > the > > secondary > > > > and what could be seen at the primary > > > > coil? > > > > > > > > > > It is technology aspects and it is not important. If you have standard > > laboratory > > > generator of signals and you can test what is the power input and > output, > > I would > > > like to recomend unipolar pulses of 30KHz and modulated ratio > > "impulse-to-pause" by > > > sinusoidal law with 3KHz. So, the density of current is sinusoidal > > function of 3KHz. > > > > > > I made it in 1994-1995 and it was self-made electronics. > > > > > > Alexander > > > > > > -- > > > http://www.time-machine.spb.ru > > > ICQ 43757451 > > > > > > > > -- Tameer Hohnsbein Hagenring 80 D-38106 Braunschweig Germany phone: ++49 531 33 53 48 e-mail: THohnsbein@csi.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 15:31:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA30148; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:31:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:31:23 -0700 Message-ID: <37D82807.BEE8A309@harti.com> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 23:35:03 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, atg0317 Subject: My experiments with TMB from today... X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <002b01befad8$5e327e80$3e30b5cc@s.boster> <000701befadd$bd9aae60$b69afea9@fs11> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9DXDY3.0.vM7.wK3st"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11857 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I tried today finally with my 100 MegaOhm scope head a few configurations with different metals to charge a 1 uF (non-electrolytic) capacitor. As my metal plates were much bigger (area) than the small fridge magnets I have, I don´t know, if this affects the results... I had a Sn Tin plate and Copper plate. I placed them together, just seperated via a thin piece of white writing paper (Laser-Printer paper) and locked this 2 plates combination into a few fridge magnets, which were hold together by an iron clamp. The iron clamp also acted as a magnetic back flux core. I got about 200 milliVolts of voltage between the Sn and Cu plates. (measured via the scope with 100 MOhm scope head) The buildup of the voltage was pretty long, so it took about 20 to 30 seconds, before 200 MilliVolts were reached, when the cap was discharged. I also tested to use 2 Sn plates without Copper and this combination also charged up to about 150 to 200 mVolts ! It did not work at all, when I used a plastic sheet between the papersheet, no metal combination did produce a voltage then. This I don´t understand, cause TMB is using plastic insulator sheets and they are getting a voltage then ! If this was just a galvanic effect, why did then the 2 Sn plates produce any voltage ? There is no different metal in this combination ! I did then wet the papersheet insolator between the 2 plates and now as I used different metals Sn and Cu, yes, there was a galvanic effect and the voltage was about 300 to 500 mVolts and the charging of the cap was almost immediately after discharging ! When I just used the 2 Sn plates with the wet papersheet between it, there was no voltage at all, cause this was tap water (conducting) and this killed the small 150 to 200 mVolts effect, which was present when the paper was still dry, via the low resistance of the conducting tap water. Now I wanted to see, how much of importance is the magnetic field. I removed the permanent magnets and exchanged them with plastic spacers and just fitted again the 2 Sn plates just separated via a dry papersheet together and clamped this again with the iron clamp, this time, no magnetic field (or just a very small remanenz from the iron clamp; as there were additionally plastic spacers, the small remanenz field also has huge air gaps, so the field is weak) Again I could get about 150 to 200 mVolts of slow charging at the 1 uF cap with the 2 Sn plates, so it seems this voltage production is not much related to using a magnetic field ! Also with the Sn-Cu plate combination I also did get again 200 mVolts of chargeup with the magnets ! It seems this is an effect of the clamping of the materials. Maybe this produces a small piezo voltage or something simular. Then I tried again with wet papersheet and I also tried Zn Zink and Copper plates and that gave a good galvanic cell so far, about 0.75 Volts, very fast charging and stacking 2 cells gave about 1.5 Volts, which was sufficient to light a red LED very very weak, I could only see it when the room was totally dark. Now I will experiment again with Zn and Cu plates and try to find a mixture from paper-sheet and some kind of glue to make a solidstate electrolyte to fit between the plates to make a dry cell Zn-Cu cell, which works simular to the bosnic eternal Clepo battery ! If I will stack enough of them, I might also get an LED to light very bright. Regards, Stefan. P.S.: Thanks a lot to Mark Seferian for sending me a big Sn plate, which I did cut into 2 plates. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 17:23:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA04669; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:23:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:23:28 -0700 Message-ID: <000701befb24$8aa64720$f98b77d8@portable> From: "atg0317" To: Subject: Stefan & TMB Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:35:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"VKtGj1.0.i81._z4st"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11858 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry for not responding to the thread, but am not at lab and had the mail faxed to me and am responding from a portable. I find the testing of TMB you did to be very interesting, productive and surprising all at once. If I read the mail correct you may be using the early configuration. The following explains a configurations which should demonstrate the requirement for the magnet. 1) Sn plate against (S) pole of magnet. On (N) pole place your paper insulator and another Sn and clamp. After establishing a voltage insert the poly sheet between the Sn plate and the (S) pole. You should again establish voltage. Now remove the paper and measure the result. Reverse the poles on the cell and observe a polarity change in output voltage. What determines the polarity of your two Sn plates without a magnet ? Are you using an isolated probe ? Does the ground lead always end up opposite of the +V output ? This is the most interesting point, how are you establishing polarity. If both Sn plates are the same size, this result is very strange. We have at one point thought the compression on the magnet in some way was causing some piezo effect, but have not been able to add evidence of that as yet. Stay away from galvanic effects, they are a waste of time, The Bunny has better batteries.I would say you are close to seeing how to configure for the mis-named MFVC. Please keep up the work when you have time. I'm very please someone is looking at it, TMB DOES have promise. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 20:20:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA00548; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:19:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:19:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199909100322.AAA27979@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:20:28 -3 Subject: Re: Stefan & TMB Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000701befb24$8aa64720$f98b77d8@portable> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Resent-Message-ID: <"F1sRt2.0.T8.FZ7st"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11859 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > 1) Sn plate against (S) pole of magnet. On (N) pole place your paper > insulator and another Sn and clamp. After establishing a voltage insert the > poly sheet between the Sn plate and the (S) pole. You should again establish > voltage. Now remove the paper and measure the result. Reverse the poles on the > cell and observe a polarity change in output voltage. > Have you noted some area related voltage level ? I mean if you use large Sn plates, the voltage increases ? And what about the current x plate area ? Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br ------------------------------------------- Get paid to surf the WEB ! Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet ! http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608 ------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 20:21:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA00770; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:20:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:20:40 -0700 Message-ID: <37D87A99.AB5@lcia.com> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 23:27:21 -0400 From: B25B@LCIA.COM (RON BRENNEN) Reply-To: b25b@LCIA.COM X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dtmiller@midiowa.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: working y2k generator plans References: <006001beefff$f8bd3140$85b6bfd1@Pfepps> <37C59D92.B87CCBB8@csi.com> <37C5E095.521F9F2E@telusplanet.net> <37D35C72.470BAED1@sprynet.com> <37d8710e.359778556@mail.midiowa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"P1FRD3.0.wB.7a7st"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11860 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dean T. Miller wrote: > > Hi Eric, > > On Sun, 05 Sep 1999 23:17:23 -0700, Eric Tonkins > wrote: > > >I know the internet must have tons of FREE do-it-yourself plans for electric > >generation and storage. I'm tired chasing down dead end internet searches. Anyone > >know of a internet clearing house for simple home-built generators and storage devices > >and their plans? (Preferably Human Powered!) Even a point in the right direction > >would help. Any ideas? Thanks, Eric > > Forget human powered for anything except equipment you can run off 2 > AA batteries. Too little power from most humans and too much > conversion loss. > > Electric generation is simple. Take any induction/squirrel-cage motor > (sized to the output power you need), parallel the leads with 100 uf > to 200 uf, 300 v capacitors, and turn the shaft at about 10% above the > rated motor speed. Voila, electric power. What kind of capacitors? not electrolytics on AC. Ron > -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 20:52:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA12389; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:51:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:51:47 -0700 Message-ID: <37D87EFD.4C219BF0@mail.admiral.ru> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:46:05 +0400 From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Reply-To: frolov@mail.admiral.ru Organization: Home Lab X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: TIME !!!!!! References: <001201befae6$25598b40$b69afea9@fs11> <37D82508.6FA8EAA@csi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NuoE53.0.U13.J18st"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11861 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tameer Hohnsbein wrote: > The question for me still is what core material will be best: iron laminations, > ferrite, ... > Sure, the ferrite is better since some induction current in core will be produced -- http://www.time-machine.spb.ru ICQ 43757451 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 22:37:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA13102; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:37:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:37:35 -0700 From: Trevmaniac@aol.com Message-ID: <6079ccf8.2509f2dc@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 01:36:28 EDT Subject: Vortices and Negative Entropy To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"k-mP_3.0.ZC3.Ua9st"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11862 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, I was digging into Viktor Schauberger's ideas recently and came across a fascinating site at www.lastrega.com/Hasslberger which suggests that vortices exhibit negative entropy (ie, a spontaineous increase in rotational kinetic energy at the expense of ambient thermal energy). I recently expereinced this very effect when a small atmospheric tornado caused the local temperature to fall from 55F to 48F while giant hailstones battered my car. All this in Seattle (Bothell) in the month of August! I was wondering if anyone has built a water vortex generator? Or noticed a temperature drop? Or noticed excess kinetic energy at the outlet? Or attempted to power the vortex with that excess? I imagine a self-feeding vortex would continue to operate until the water froze out (as in the mini tornado). Somebody posted a note recdently about a special kind of funnel with a logarithmic profile. Something that would assist the vortex to form. Are these funnels available anywhere? Trevor Sleath Snohomish WA From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 23:26:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA25340; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:26:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:26:38 -0700 Sender: THohnsbein@csi.com Message-ID: <37D8A45C.E7BD7E78@csi.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:25:32 +0200 From: Tameer Hohnsbein X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [de] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L Subject: Re: My experiments with TMB from today... References: <002b01befad8$5e327e80$3e30b5cc@s.boster> <000701befadd$bd9aae60$b69afea9@fs11> <37D82807.BEE8A309@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3p_-u1.0.rB6.UIAst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11863 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan, Stefan Hartmann schrieb: > P.S.: Thanks a lot to Mark Seferian for sending me a big Sn plate, > which I did cut into 2 plates. Do you know where Mark did get this Sn plate from ? I haven't found a source for Sn in Braunschweig yet. So I tried the TMB cell with iron and copper plates. After discharging the cap there was no voltage building except a small 50Hz 2mV sine wave induced from the 220V outlets in the wall. Will try shorter wires next time :-) Did you try your cell with a plastic clamp also ? I used plastic clamps from conrad electronics and some steel clamps. With the steel clamp the induced 50Hz voltage was even higher, 3-4mV. Greetings from Braunschweig Tameer -- Tameer Hohnsbein Hagenring 80 D-38106 Braunschweig Germany phone: ++49 531 33 53 48 e-mail: THohnsbein@csi.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 02:42:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA21689; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 02:42:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 02:42:36 -0700 Message-ID: <37D8D31C.CB436D0D@telusplanet.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 02:45:00 -0700 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Hi Fred References: <00c001bef49a$474ca9a0$38b6bfd1@w7o9k8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"i-nEO3.0.kI5.BADst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11864 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Fred, Was wondering what you thought of this? PSIONIC REPEATER One of the big problems people who get into psionics encounter is that there never seems enough hours in the day to accomplish everything that needs doing. Even with the capacity of these instruments to transmit on their own without the operator watching, there are times when you want to be sure that your specific thought message is going out. Fortunately there is a very simple way of doing that. You put it on tape. One of the things we absolutely know about psychic energy is that electromagnetic waves act as carriers. You can send a thought over a wire, over a beam of light, over a radio signal. You can even record it on magnetic tape. I know this sounds bizarre, but it is true. In my early days of working with this idea I hooked myself into a tape recorder much the same way as I am about to describe and concentrated on one word. I then gave the tape to a friend who hooked herself to her cassette recorder, played the tape back and then spelled out the word on a Ouija board. We progressed with this until we were able to send messages back and forth on tape. Now this system is not so much for that as for adaption to radio transmission. So you will need: A headband like the one described for use with the simple radio adaption. A patch cable with a 3.5 mm plug on one end and two alligator clips on the other (usually easily found at Radio Shack) A cassette recorder and blank cassette The modified walkie talkie. The first thing you have to do is decide what it is you wish to send. In this case, let us assume you are going to visualize a new car. Now you could do this very simply without any special equipment, but you never seem to have time to just sit and hold the image. There are too many things to do at home, too many distractions. This being the case, you make one time to sit for about a half hour and just visualize the car you want, what it looks like, what it feels like the drive, the annoyance of your mother-in-law because she wants you to spend the money on new furniture, all the fun things that come with a new car. Hook the alligator clips to the foil plate on the headband and plug the wire into the microphone input on the cassette recorder. Set the machine to record and sit and do your visualization for the length of the the tape, in this case 30 minutes. After you have done this, when you get home plug cable into the earphone jack of the cassette recorder and attach the clips to the screws sticking out of the walkie talkie. That's why they are there in the first place, to attach things. Turn on the walkie talkie and clamp down the transmit button. Then all you need do is play the tape while you go about your other business and the signal will automatically be put out into the aether to bring you the result you desire. Repeat this as often as you wish. This system can be used with any form of visualization or message transmission. Experiment with it and see what you get. Return to Main Page. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 02:48:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA22518; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 02:48:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 02:48:42 -0700 Message-ID: <37D8D3EF.8452FAF7@harti.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:48:31 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "S. Nicol" , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re:Converting heat to mechanical energy ! Buy the machine ! References: <19990910040933.SMTA14518.mta01@onebox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"L27pY2.0.lV5.wFDst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11865 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, this might be the breakthrough invention ! It was speculated, that such a device would work and now it is finally done ! Converting heat to electrical or mechanical power on a 100 % conversion process by violating the "2nd law" , whcih is not a law at all. Thanks for the fantastic news ! Best regards, Stefan. "S. Nicol" schrieb: > > This looks very real... > > www.entropysystems.com > > Youngstown, Ohio, September 7, 1999 - Production and consumption of energy is the largest business in the world. After seven years and $3.4 million, Entropy Systems Inc., (ESI) has developed engine technology that produces power, by absorbing heat from atmospheric air, that can be at any temperature (even sub-zero). No fossil fuels or any nuclear materials are required to operate these engines and therefore they do not produce any pollution. In other words ESI engines are Room Temperature Superconductor s of heat. ESI engines require no cryogenic liquids or any fuel storage systems and can be used to run Automobiles, Boats, Lawnmowers and Generators. > > Conventional engines can only convert high temperature heat to power, which is produced by burning fossil fuels. The ESI engine takes room temperature air, absorbs heat from the air like a sponge, converts, that heat to power and exhausts air at a lower temperature. This low-temperature exhaust can be used for Refrigeration and Air Conditioning. Thus the ESI engine is both an Engine and a Refrigerator. An electric generator coupled to this engine produces electricity. ESI engines can operate year round in any kind of weather and have efficiencies higher than any conventional engines, refrigerators or Fuel Cells. > > Patents on this technology are approved by the United States of America, Australia and the European Economic Community. Sanjay Amin is the inventor of this technology. His book on Thermodynamics was published in 1994 and he received the ASEI, Engineer – of – the year award in 1996. Sanjay also has several patents to his name. Tests on developmental prototypes were conducted at Youngstown State University, Purdue University and Pennsylvania State University. Youngstown State University's Cushwa Center fo r Entrepreneurship, helped launch ESI. Larry Armstrong of Businessweek magazine writes, "Almost everyone in the 21st century is going to have a personal power-plant". More information is available on the website: http://www.entropysystems.com > > -- > S. Nicol > lcars@onebox.com - email > 1-212-894-3761 x0027 - voicemail/fax > > __________________________________________________ > FREE voicemail, email, and fax...all in one place. > Sign Up Now! http://www.onebox.com -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 02:57:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA25492; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 02:57:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 02:57:51 -0700 Message-ID: <37D8D5D5.1E9F0148@harti.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:56:37 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Trevmaniac@aol.com Subject: Re: Vortices and Negative Entropy References: <6079ccf8.2509f2dc@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"x8K5Z.0.DE6.VODst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11866 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.entropysystems.com They have a running system ! Trevmaniac@aol.com schrieb: > > Hi all, > > I was digging into Viktor Schauberger's ideas recently and came across a > fascinating site at > > www.lastrega.com/Hasslberger > > which suggests that vortices exhibit negative entropy (ie, a spontaineous > increase in rotational kinetic energy at the expense of ambient thermal > energy). I recently expereinced this very effect when a small atmospheric > tornado caused the local temperature to fall from 55F to 48F while giant > hailstones battered my car. All this in Seattle (Bothell) in the month of > August! > > I was wondering if anyone has built a water vortex generator? Or noticed a > temperature drop? Or noticed excess kinetic energy at the outlet? Or > attempted to power the vortex with that excess? I imagine a self-feeding > vortex would continue to operate until the water froze out (as in the mini > tornado). > > Somebody posted a note recdently about a special kind of funnel with a > logarithmic profile. Something that would assist the vortex to form. Are > these funnels available anywhere? > > Trevor Sleath > Snohomish WA -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 03:14:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA27165; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 03:13:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 03:13:50 -0700 Message-ID: <37D8DA70.FB85BB07@telusplanet.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 03:16:16 -0700 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: NEUROPHONE WANTED References: <00c001bef49a$474ca9a0$38b6bfd1@w7o9k8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ddn_p3.0.Me6.TdDst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11867 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: anyone know where I can get a second hand or low cost one? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 03:34:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA30582; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 03:34:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 03:34:14 -0700 Message-ID: <37D8DF37.BE14A0C3@telusplanet.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 03:36:39 -0700 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Neurophone vs Echophone References: <00c001bef49a$474ca9a0$38b6bfd1@w7o9k8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9UPCL2.0.hT7.cwDst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11868 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Anyone know which is better? Subject: Re: Neurophone Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 03:34:15 -0700 From: "Seph A. Reese" To: donadams@telusplanet.net Hi Don, Thanks for your insightful comments. I've been unbelievably busy and burned out. Will respond in the near future. Before I leave for Seattle tmw evening to try some new and advanced hearing aids, back to the neurophone: >yes, they absolutely do work. Altho some of the more radical claims >made have >been difficult to prove I've heard. > Have you heard of the Echofone?? Found out about it while researching Thinkman. The only site that mentions Aquathought Lab's DolphinSonic echofone is Bob Paddock's site, according to Bob. I didn't find anything else about it. http://www.aquathought.com Any knowledge of or comparison? Im not sure which would be more beneficial to my high range hearing loss. I'm having tough luck getting answers anywhere, even from the Co. It sure costs alot less. The pictures at Bob's site show them identical. But the echofone is stereo while thinkman is mono. I don't know if echofone is 40,000 kHz peak ultrasonic like the thinkman is, which Flanagan claims is the level necessary for saccule communication. Must be though, they work with dolphins too. Bob says the new Thinkman is vastly improved and doesn't require adaption time in order to 'hear' it. He hasn't tried the echofone yet .. only complaints he has heard is they don't produce them fast enough. My new aids will have a t switch so I can run a coil, a 'loop' around my neck or the room (or put a wired flat 'silhouette' behind the aid which makes a closer, louder, electromagnetic vibration to the aid). Not sure how t coils work exactly but they plug into any device such as a recorder. Also, the aids will feature a mini wireless FM system microphone with an aux. jack (I think thats for input to the mike from like, a tape player). I'm having no luck trying to figure what the advantages and disadvantages of these combinations would have with a stereo and a mono ultrasonic device. At first I thought I could play a portable cd through the FM system mini mike and use transducers alone rather than the headphones and built-in transducers featured with echofone. But FM would compromise sound. Then I found out about the t coil so it sounds like it might be a better deal for sound improvement. Because it's electromagnetic not FM. ?? The idea behind it was so your hearing aid won't shriek or distort when you hold a telephone too close to it. Deaf people I've talked to say a t switch greatly improves the sound on the telephone (and maybe recordings? Don't remember right) Im not so sure that i could get cd quality sound through an electromagnetic coil, but it's sure I won't on FM. Considering all this, I don't really understand what the benefits or drawbacks might be between having stereo or mono 'neurophones' Bob: >The Echofone will do both the Right AND Left channel, so you >can use it with things like Paraliminal Learning tapes. >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>What happens if you combine a Echophone with a Neurophone? >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >I would not recommended it. Most likely you'd hear the >ultrasonic carrier of each interfering with the other as a >annoying beat note. There's the issue of speech and I don't know what it would sound like to have speech entrained in mono vs. stereo while also going through my new hearing aids. Would that make things wierd or what? I'm trying to remember the point of neuophone, i remember a person on Bob's usound archive said he doesn't tend to listen to regular music with neurophone but rather tapes such as Flanagan's repetitive Om tape and pink noise generation, etc. Something about the high freq. I think. Here's a lowdown on the aids: ---------------------------------------------- ImpaCt is designed for people with moderate to severe hearing loss in the low frequencies and severe to profound hearing loss in the high frequencies. High frequency consonants (i.e., sounds such as /s/, /sh/, /t/) are very critical for speech intelligibility. Speech is compressed to lower frequencies where the user has better residual hearing. ImpaCt’s Dynamic Speech Re-Coding (DSR) capabilities address clinician's #1 concern - over amplification! Why increase output when critical speech sounds will still not be heard? With ImpaCt's Real Time Digital Signal Analysis, Frequency Compression for voiced and voiceless sounds and Dynamic Consonant Boost, output can be reduced and audibility increased. http://www.avrsono.com ------------------------------------------------- Don't know if the two different methods of high sound enhancement will cancel each other out because one will be ultrasonic highs to the saccule while ImpaCt, will be low frequency perceived as high by my cochlea. Sorry this is so drawn out. Anxious about my appt. tmw. and so many questions and possibilities. Do you have any theory to offer on mono vs. stereo in relation to FM vs. EM, and CD vs. cassettes? Thanks! Seph Fred Epps wrote: > Hi Ken, Stefan, and all.. > > > >> Yes, it seems the real secret in transformers is, that they need a > >> changing > >> magnetic vector potential A field and only this is needed for an > >> induction voltage > >> at the secondary coil. > > > Well the thing that I have trouble with is the following: consider an > >ideal square-core transformer with windings on two opposite legs, an input > >winding and an output winding. Case 1, no load on the output; case 2, > output > >heavily loaded. The theory, as I understand it, says if you take a cross > >section of one of the center legs the B, H and E fields are the same for > case > >1 and 2. In one case you are moving a lot of energy and the other you > >aren't, yet the fields are the same?? Maybe I am missing something, or > maybe > >the A field is needed to understand what is going on? > > The A field is simply a more inclusive way of describing all the phenomena > of magnetism. It doesn't change the phenomena in any way. > In your example, the loaded secondary generates a field that opposes the > primary field, whichever description is used. > In some cases however it is impossible to use the flux linkage law to > describe a transformer action. Here is an example: > > A "transformer" which consists of three solenoids stacked parallel next to > each other. The outer two solenoids are primaries fed by the same AC source > but are either 1) counterwound, or 2) fed from opposite ends. > It might appear that any induction will be cancelled out in the central > secondary, but in fact the induction is twice that with a single primary. > But the two primaries do not induce in each other! In addition B field > measurements in the center if the secondary will show no flux! > You can't use the flux linkage law in this case because the contour of the > flux is changing over time, not being guided by a ferro core. You have to > use the motional law in its A field form, since there is no flux at the > center of the secondary. On looking at the situation closely you see that > the expanding field of the two primaries are opposed, but are also coming > toward the central coil in opposite directions. This means the motional > induction is additive. > This is the exact "transformer" analogy of the Hooper-Monstein effect where > two magnets with poles in opposite directions are brought from opposite > directions simultaneously towards a central wire. The B field is always zero > at the wire even though the induction is twice that of a single magnet. > If the secondary of this odd transformer is loaded, its motional A field > will induce back emf in both primaries and load them in the same way as an > ordinary transformer. > > Use of the A field description doesn't resolve the basic strangeness of > induction, which is the necessity of using two forms of induction to cover > all cases. The complete A field form of induction still requires two terms, > one for transformer induction and one for motional induction. As Cohn says > in an article about this issue (and I paraphrase from memory), "this is the > only known fundamental phenomenon that cannot be reduced to a single law". > The implication is that it is not a single phenomena at all. > > In the field- free formulation of Moon and Spencer, where magnetic fields > are considered to be action at a distance phenomena between charges in > relative motion, the whole situation becomes much clearer. Motional > induction is a force between charges in steady relative motion. Transformer > induction is a force between charges in accelerated relative motion. > > This version also implies the possibility of a third form of induction based > on second order acceleration-- acceleration of acceleration. This is likely > to have effects not seen in the other two forms, as each of these has its > own unique characteristics. This second order acceleration is the electronic > equivalent to the "jerk" phenomena often seen in inertial drives. > > To create this jerk induction is not so simple a thing, but it can be done > by using nonlinear inductances. If anyone is interested in trying some > experiments on these lines I will get into the details with them. > > Motional induction is a purely relativistic phenomenon. And moving fields > can be created by nonmoving bodies. This implies some unusual devices that > have not been built as yet. > > Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 04:48:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA10083; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:48:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:48:18 -0700 Message-ID: <37D8EFF5.2DA4284F@harti.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:48:05 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Is this the engine of the 21th century ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ivy8i3.0.ST2.20Fst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11869 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.entropysystems.com/MorePicESI22.htm -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 05:15:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA16108; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 05:15:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 05:15:02 -0700 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: TIME !!!!!! Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:59:39 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: <001201befae6$25598b40$b69afea9@fs11> <37D82508.6FA8EAA@csi.com> In-Reply-To: <37D82508.6FA8EAA@csi.com> Lines: 17 X-Newsreader: VSoup v1.2.9.37Beta [95/NT] Resent-Message-ID: <"G6BYg3.0.bx3.6PFst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11870 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >That's nearly the same what I intended to do, >take a microcontroller that has a pulse with modulation unit on chip >and put the output into a current driver built with fast power mosfets. >The question for me still is what core material will be >best: iron laminations, ferrite, ... Metglas from Alied Signal. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/ Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. http://www.uCOS-II.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 05:41:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA23961; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 05:41:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 05:41:11 -0700 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: leoguitar@vossnet.de Subject: Re: Is this the engine of the 21th century ? Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:14:24 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: <37D8EFF5.2DA4284F@harti.com> In-Reply-To: <37D8EFF5.2DA4284F@harti.com> Lines: 18 X-Newsreader: VSoup v1.2.9.37Beta [95/NT] Resent-Message-ID: <"cCVs_2.0.Is5.dnFst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11871 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >http://www.entropysystems.com/MorePicESI22.htm Lets hope so. I've been invited to the News Conference for it later this month, so hope to see it in person soon. There is a bit of info on it at my web site, I need to update it. Also look at http://www.oilcity.org/research/ for some links to Department of Energy Handbooks on Thermodynamics and other handbooks relevant to the list here. Always good to brush up on such things. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/ *CHEMICAL FREE AIR CONDITIONING/NO CFC's*, Chronic Pain Relief From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 06:23:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02065; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:22:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:22:53 -0700 Message-ID: <37D8FF58.AC60C74@harti.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:53:44 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, atg0317 Subject: Re: Stefan & TMB References: <000701befb24$8aa64720$f98b77d8@portable> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IEIiF1.0.5W.jOGst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11872 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: atg0317 schrieb: > > Sorry for not responding to the thread, but am not at lab and had the mail > faxed to me and am responding from a portable. > > I find the testing of TMB you did to be very interesting, productive and > surprising all at once. If I read the mail correct you may be using the > early configuration. The following explains a configurations which should > demonstrate the requirement for the magnet. > > 1) Sn plate against (S) pole of magnet. On (N) pole place your paper > insulator and another Sn and clamp. After establishing a voltage insert the > poly sheet between the Sn plate and the (S) pole. You should again establish > voltage. Now remove the paper and measure the result. Reverse the poles on > the cell and observe a polarity change in output voltage. Okay, I will try this, but it sounds confusing ! Why first let the plastic off ? I have to get bigger size magnets first, my magnets are just too small in area size. > > What determines the polarity of your two Sn plates without a magnet ? Have to reheck that... Did not pay attention late in the night.. >Are > you using an isolated probe ? Sure. >Does the ground lead always end up opposite of > the +V output ? This is the most interesting point, how are you establishing > polarity. If both Sn plates are the same size, this result is very strange. It was also pretty puzzling to me, it seemed, that I had to change the orientation of plates, so one is 90 degrees rotated, so not both rectangular plates cover each other ! when both replates were just in line, one over the other, there was no voltage produced, but I have to recheck that again... Also the voltage production worked in a cookie metal box used as a Faraday cage ! > > We have at one point thought the compression on the magnet in some way was > causing some piezo effect, but have not been able to add evidence of that as > yet. > Yes, I have to rerun the experiments again with bigger and better magnets. Have you tested yet Neodym magnets with it ? > Stay away from galvanic effects, they are a waste of time, The Bunny has > better batteries.I would say you are close to seeing how to configure for > the mis-named MFVC. Well, the bosnic Clepo Zn-Cu battery is a dry electrolyte galvanic cell, where the metals are NOT diminished and thus it is an eternal battery. It works without magnets and probably converts environment heat directly into electricity, so it also a second law violator. The most interesting effect I was seeing yeasterday was, when I got a voltage between the iron core and my crocodile type clamp inside the airgap ! No other metals at all, just measuring the voltage between the iron core clamp and the crocodile clip immersed into the 5 mm airgap from the magnets which stacked inside the iron core clamp ! I have to further investigate this effect and see, if it is real or some other side effect or galvanic effect ! > > Please keep up the work when you have time. I'm very please someone is > looking at it, TMB DOES have promise. If you would tell us, how MFVC works I could try to duplicate this... I could not get anything like this in my yeasterdays experiments, maybe because my magnet area is much smaller than all my plate area sizes... Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 06:23:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02287; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:23:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:23:21 -0700 Message-ID: <37D900C7.967FA930@harti.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:59:51 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Tameer Hohnsbein , atg0317 Subject: Re: My experiments with TMB from today... References: <002b01befad8$5e327e80$3e30b5cc@s.boster> <000701befadd$bd9aae60$b69afea9@fs11> <37D82807.BEE8A309@harti.com> <37D8A45C.E7BD7E78@csi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"n9CXZ3.0.eZ.8PGst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11873 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tameer Hohnsbein schrieb: > > Hi Stefan, > > Stefan Hartmann schrieb: > > > P.S.: Thanks a lot to Mark Seferian for sending me a big Sn plate, > > which I did cut into 2 plates. > > Do you know where Mark did get this Sn plate from ? No. He just offered to send it and I got it from him. > I haven't found a source for Sn in Braunschweig yet. > > So I tried the TMB cell with iron and copper plates. > After discharging the cap there was no voltage building except a small 50Hz > 2mV sine wave induced from the 220V outlets in the wall. > Will try shorter wires next time :-) Hmm , try to use zinked iron !or Zn itsself ! > > Did you try your cell with a plastic clamp also ? No, just with the iron clamp as a back flux core and clamp ! > I used plastic clamps from conrad electronics and some steel clamps. Where do I get a plastic clamp that is strong enough ? > With the steel clamp the induced 50Hz voltage was even higher, 3-4mV. How big were your magnets ? Size ? Did they cover all of your plates ? Did you solder wires to the plates ? Me not, so there might be the case, that the soldering of wire produces an thermovoltage Seeberg effect together with the close proximity of the magnets ? Maybe this is the real TMB effect ? regards, Stefan. > > Greetings from Braunschweig > > Tameer > > -- > Tameer Hohnsbein > Hagenring 80 > D-38106 Braunschweig > Germany > phone: ++49 531 33 53 48 > e-mail: THohnsbein@csi.com -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 06:23:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02336; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:23:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:23:35 -0700 Message-ID: <37D90176.189654F9@harti.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:02:46 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, mark@plug-in.com.br Subject: Re: Stefan & TMB References: <199909100322.AAA27979@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AlDNG1.0.La.MPGst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11874 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Marcelo Puhl schrieb: > > > > > 1) Sn plate against (S) pole of magnet. On (N) pole place your paper > > insulator and another Sn and clamp. After establishing a voltage insert the > > poly sheet between the Sn plate and the (S) pole. You should again establish > > voltage. Now remove the paper and measure the result. Reverse the poles on the > > cell and observe a polarity change in output voltage. > > > > Have you noted some area related voltage level ? > > I mean if you use large Sn plates, the voltage increases ? Just had one plate, which I did cut into 2 halfs, have not yet had time to drive around in our city to get more metal, wanted just try a few first tests.. > And what about the current x plate area ? Has still to be tested. I need more metal material and much better magnets... Regards, Stefan. > > Marcelo Puhl > mark@plug-in.com.br > ------------------------------------------- > Get paid to surf the WEB ! > Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet ! > http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608 > ------------------------------------------- -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 06:24:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02515; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:23:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:23:55 -0700 Message-ID: <37D90297.D6FC2859@harti.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:07:35 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , BEN ANDERSON 7657519 , Free Energy Subject: Re: My experiments References: <199909100927.JcQq@memo.volvo.se > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GtGHC.0.Cd.gPGst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11875 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: BEN ANDERSON 7657519 schrieb: > > --- Inkommet från VCC3.WILLIAM 031-7657519 99-09-10 11:27 > -> newman-l(a)emachine.com > > Hi Stefan > > Did you swap the probe connections, polarity, to the > scope for each combination you measured? Sometimes..but not in all tests.. I have to repeat that- > > In a case of two different metals used, it would be > right to assume that the polarity over the metal > combination would always be in one direction > and if the connections to the scope was swapped > the scope would show the voltage with an inverted > polarity. (Much text for the obvious ;-) Yes. > > Now, the interesting part is: What will happen > when changing the probe connections to the test > sample where you used two pieces of the same > metal? Will the scope show the same polarity or > will the polarity change when the connections > are swapped? > (Amazing, that you got a voltage at all when > using two Sn plates.) Yes, I will repeat the experimet to see this ! > Could it be a leakage current via the scope input > amplifier that builds up a voltage over the capacitor? Hopefully not ! > > And to take it further: What will happen to the > polarity if the capacitor connection leads are > swapped? And again, if the magnetic field through > the plates is swapped? > > Perhaps the polarity will not change, but maybe > the level of the voltage will change -- indicating > an overlaid polarity dependency. Hmm, yes, I have to recheck this with just the experiment with just the 2 Sn plates.. > > Fascinating experiment. I am certain that there is > a simple explanation to the phenomenon, but what > is it? Yes, probably... Thanks for your helpful comments ! Regards, Stefan. > > Cheers > Ben W A > > --------------------------------------------------- > From: harti@harti.com > To: newman-l@emachine.com > Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:37:55 +0200 > Subject: My experiments with TMB from today... > > Hi All, > > I tried today finally with my 100 MegaOhm > scope head a few configurations > with different metals to charge a 1 uF > (non-electrolytic) capacitor. > > As my metal plates were much bigger (area) > than the small fridge magnets I have, > I don´t know, if this affects the results... > > I had a Sn Tin plate and Copper plate. > I placed them together, just seperated > via a thin piece of white writing paper > (Laser-Printer paper) and locked this > 2 plates combination into a few fridge magnets, > which were hold together by an iron clamp. > The iron clamp also acted as a magnetic back flux > core. > I got about 200 milliVolts of voltage between the Sn and > Cu plates. (measured via the scope with 100 MOhm scope head) > > The buildup of the voltage was pretty long, > so it took about 20 to 30 seconds, before 200 MilliVolts > were reached, when the cap was discharged. > > I also tested to use 2 Sn plates without Copper and this combination > also charged up to about 150 to 200 mVolts ! > > It did not work at all, when I used a plastic sheet between > the papersheet, no metal combination did produce a voltage then. > This I don´t understand, cause TMB is using plastic insulator sheets > and they are getting a voltage then ! > > If this was just a galvanic effect, why did then the 2 Sn plates > produce any voltage ? There is no different metal in this combination ! > > I did then wet the papersheet insolator between the 2 plates and now > as I used different metals Sn and Cu, yes, there was a galvanic effect > and the voltage was about 300 to 500 mVolts and the charging of the cap > was > almost immediately after discharging ! > > When I just used the 2 Sn plates with the wet papersheet between > it, there was no voltage at all, cause this was tap water (conducting) > and this killed the small 150 to 200 mVolts effect, which was present > when the paper > was still dry, via the low resistance of the conducting tap water. > > Now I wanted to see, how much of importance is the magnetic field. > I removed the permanent magnets and exchanged them with plastic spacers > and just fitted again the 2 Sn plates just separated via a dry > papersheet > together and clamped this again with the iron clamp, this time, no > magnetic > field (or just a very small remanenz from the iron clamp; as there were > additionally plastic spacers, the small remanenz field also has huge air > gaps, > so the field is weak) > > Again I could get about 150 to 200 mVolts of slow charging at the 1 uF > cap > with the 2 Sn plates, so it seems this voltage production is not much > related to using a magnetic field ! > > Also with the Sn-Cu plate combination I also did get again 200 mVolts > of chargeup with the magnets ! > > It seems this is an effect of the clamping of the materials. > Maybe this produces a small piezo voltage or something simular. > > Then I tried again with wet papersheet and I also tried Zn Zink and > Copper plates and that gave a good galvanic cell so far, about 0.75 > Volts, > very fast charging and stacking 2 cells gave about 1.5 Volts, which was > sufficient > to light a red LED very very weak, I could only see it when the room was > totally dark. > > Now I will experiment again with Zn and Cu plates and try to find a > mixture from paper-sheet and > some kind of glue to make a solidstate electrolyte to fit between the > plates > to make a dry cell Zn-Cu cell, which works simular to the bosnic eternal > Clepo > battery ! > If I will stack enough of them, I might also get an LED to light very > bright. > > Regards, Stefan. > P.S.: Thanks a lot to Mark Seferian for sending me a big Sn plate, > which I did cut into 2 plates. > > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 06:24:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02585; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:24:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:24:10 -0700 Message-ID: <37D9044C.D14930EA@harti.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:14:52 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Human power source charging cap ! :) X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8no861.0.Ee.vPGst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11876 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, as I did run yeasterday a few TMB experiments I also stumbled across a real power producing experiment charging the capacitor using my hands ! If you connect a 1 uF cap and 2 diodes 1N4007 in series like this: anode-DIODE1-cathode-+-capacitor-+-anode-DIODE2-cathode and touch with one hand the left annode and with the other hand the right cathode, you can charge up the capacitor pretty quickly to about 20 Volts in a few seconds ! So if you then discharge this cap into an LED it will blink pretty bright ! So you can see how much power your body generates ! :) Maybe just an body antenna effect, but it is interesting to see ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 07:09:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA22533; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:09:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:09:29 -0700 Message-ID: <002301befb96$6071f5e0$5e3dfea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: "Free Energy" Subject: TMB Materials Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:11:28 -0500 Organization: N.E.S. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"CN7yM2.0.-V5.O4Hst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11877 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For people having trouble finding Cu and Sn material we were told of a possible source. We did try the materials and the work fine, in fact the Zn coated Sn works great. Craft & Hobby Stores sell sheet of pure Cu, Sn and a Zn coated Sn for hobby use by crafters. This metal is used for I believe metal embossing. The pure Sn is used by forced oxidation via household chemicals into designs. Any way this is a great source (MAYBE). Additionally the Zn coated SN has some great properties. Nu-Energy Systems Conquest is the beginning, enjoying the win is the real battle. http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 07:31:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA29664; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:31:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:31:39 -0700 Message-ID: <002401befb99$63020f40$241262d1@larry> From: "Axehandler" To: Subject: Re: My experiments with TMB from today... Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:33:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"KVDFG1.0.KF7.BPHst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11878 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You know.... since your basicly making a low voltage Battery, the best 2 metals to use would be Copper and Magnesium.... all thou Silver and Magnesium produce a pretty close second. Also soaking the paper in salt water and it would probebly produce a better output then just plain old water.. and acid based water is even a little better of course... Course you really shouldn't be persueing it along these lines. but I would still give the Copper and Magnesium a try and see what you output is. Sorry if I pointed out any obvious things =) Larry -----Original Message----- From: Stefan Hartmann To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; atg0317 Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 5:34 PM Subject: My experiments with TMB from today... >Hi All, > >I tried today finally with my 100 MegaOhm >scope head a few configurations >with different metals to charge a 1 uF >(non-electrolytic) capacitor. > >As my metal plates were much bigger (area) >than the small fridge magnets I have, >I don´t know, if this affects the results... > >I had a Sn Tin plate and Copper plate. >I placed them together, just seperated >via a thin piece of white writing paper >(Laser-Printer paper) and locked this >2 plates combination into a few fridge magnets, >which were hold together by an iron clamp. >The iron clamp also acted as a magnetic back flux >core. >I got about 200 milliVolts of voltage between the Sn and >Cu plates. (measured via the scope with 100 MOhm scope head) > >The buildup of the voltage was pretty long, >so it took about 20 to 30 seconds, before 200 MilliVolts >were reached, when the cap was discharged. > >I also tested to use 2 Sn plates without Copper and this combination >also charged up to about 150 to 200 mVolts ! > >It did not work at all, when I used a plastic sheet between >the papersheet, no metal combination did produce a voltage then. >This I don´t understand, cause TMB is using plastic insulator sheets >and they are getting a voltage then ! > >If this was just a galvanic effect, why did then the 2 Sn plates >produce any voltage ? There is no different metal in this combination ! > >I did then wet the papersheet insolator between the 2 plates and now >as I used different metals Sn and Cu, yes, there was a galvanic effect >and the voltage was about 300 to 500 mVolts and the charging of the cap >was >almost immediately after discharging ! > >When I just used the 2 Sn plates with the wet papersheet between >it, there was no voltage at all, cause this was tap water (conducting) >and this killed the small 150 to 200 mVolts effect, which was present >when the paper >was still dry, via the low resistance of the conducting tap water. > >Now I wanted to see, how much of importance is the magnetic field. >I removed the permanent magnets and exchanged them with plastic spacers >and just fitted again the 2 Sn plates just separated via a dry >papersheet >together and clamped this again with the iron clamp, this time, no >magnetic >field (or just a very small remanenz from the iron clamp; as there were >additionally plastic spacers, the small remanenz field also has huge air >gaps, >so the field is weak) > >Again I could get about 150 to 200 mVolts of slow charging at the 1 uF >cap >with the 2 Sn plates, so it seems this voltage production is not much >related to using a magnetic field ! > >Also with the Sn-Cu plate combination I also did get again 200 mVolts >of chargeup with the magnets ! > >It seems this is an effect of the clamping of the materials. >Maybe this produces a small piezo voltage or something simular. > >Then I tried again with wet papersheet and I also tried Zn Zink and >Copper plates and that gave a good galvanic cell so far, about 0.75 >Volts, >very fast charging and stacking 2 cells gave about 1.5 Volts, which was >sufficient >to light a red LED very very weak, I could only see it when the room was >totally dark. > >Now I will experiment again with Zn and Cu plates and try to find a >mixture from paper-sheet and >some kind of glue to make a solidstate electrolyte to fit between the >plates >to make a dry cell Zn-Cu cell, which works simular to the bosnic eternal >Clepo >battery ! >If I will stack enough of them, I might also get an LED to light very >bright. > >Regards, Stefan. >P.S.: Thanks a lot to Mark Seferian for sending me a big Sn plate, >which I did cut into 2 plates. > >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, >Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net >http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 07:45:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA03376; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:44:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:44:50 -0700 From: UNIR2B1@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:44:03 EDT Subject: Re: NEUROPHONE WANTED: Some thoughts... To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: dpnichols@iswt.com, powerfd@gte.net, Serwitz@aol.com, rachelhome@bigfoot.com, chief@sundial.net (michael romack), richarda@icx.net, atech@ix.netcom.com (Dennis C. Lee), dawnames@hotmail.com, ewall@infinite-energy.com (Ed Wall), johnhoffman@webtv.net, rolfe_hauser@hotmail.com, transnet@teleport.com, trknute@earthlink.net, werosser@hotmail.com, jham@iahf.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"QLRi52.0.eq.XbHst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11879 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 99-09-10 06:14:52 EDT, you write: > >anyone know where I can get a second hand or low cost one? > > Hi, Don! People's Radio Network (PRN) used to sell them--800-888-9999; if not, Chuck Harder himself may know. He's on short-wave now--his sales dept. # is 888-622-2676. Did you ever investigate the posts re: "phasers on stun"? Real money has evidently been invested in a device that employs a UV laser to ionize an air channel through which a stun gun voltage can conduct! There's also a type of stun gun called the Pulse Wave Myotron which uses a frequency that's especially disruptive to the brain, rather than raw, high voltage. The website says that if you touch your assailant for a full second or more, "he may even forget why he attacked you in the first place". Suppose you modulated the Myotron output over the UV laser from a safe distance, thereby 'blanking' the adversaries mind, then apply the Neorophone signal to the channel. With a mic plugged into the Neurophone preamp, you could implant thoughts from your lips directly into his perception. Can the Neurophone can access the optical nerves, too?--you could communicate in multimedia. I've heard of cyber-type learning devices that the alter mental state without lingual suggestion, only combinations of light & sound. Could this methodology be used to create a type of telepathy that transcends all language barriers? Should the internet be accessed with Neurophones rather than computer monitors? Surely, words are only a type of encoding of thoughts already formed in some raw form that exists only *within* individual brains; could that pre-linguistic symbology not be directly transmitted via Neurophone link? --Russ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 07:58:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA09206; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:57:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:57:35 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01befb9d$19539d60$a8fbfea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Phantom Charge Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:59:33 -0500 Organization: N.E.S. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"H5yKr1.0.lF2.VnHst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11880 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I just finished a conversation with what appears to be an individual that at first seemed ok, but now I'm not so sure and would like some feedback. He explained in some detail about how the TMB can be the product of a Phantom or Mirrored charge. I went to the text books and the only reference I found was a charged body in proximity to a grounded plate and a Phantom charge being formed within the ground plate. What I was told and this is where it gets a little strange, is that a Phantom can be constructed to mirror or pair with charges in a non-closed loop way. It all kind of sound like all the old readings like universal charge etc., but it seemed to make sense at the time, what I failed to understand was the way to create a Phantom. Okay if TMB is, what's the principle. I tried to obtain this but of course more questions than time for talk. Has anyone heard of such a ting before other than the reference I have made to Electrodynamics ? Nu-Energy Systems Conquest is the beginning, enjoying the win is the real battle. http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 09:05:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA03005; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:03:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:03:32 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01befba5$472f2440$acdb82d1@felis-catus> From: "Felis Catus" To: Subject: Re: NEUROPHONE WANTED Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:58:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"0uuuN3.0.sk.IlIst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11881 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi! I built the neurophone as part of an independent study at SUNY Empire State College. I met and hoped to work further with it in the company of one of its inventors, dr.Andreij Puharich. Unfortunately, he died before I could use it to help a girl who had been deaf from meningitis from the age of two. [it worked with her-she heard] Build your own-Dr. Puharich did a complete study of the neurophone which was done under Armed Forces Supervision at Griffis Air Force Base in the 1960's. You can order the document through the National Technical Information Service. (NTIS) Data: NTIS, 5285 Port royal road, Springfield, VA 22161` Document Number: AD-459956 "Trans Dermal Electrostimulation Techniques of Hearing", by A. Puharich MD and JL Lawerence,PhD. I constructed the device and gathered extensive literature on it as a part of this project. I have found 'hard care' proof(beyond a doubt) in the literature that this was perhaps suppressed and academic fraud took place in the handelling of the affair-as Dr. Puharich told me personally. What are you wanting to do with this? Help someone who is deaf? What are your academic/technical qualifications-are you competent to build this device? My study has the full circuit diagrammes so you can construct this device for yourself and make all parts from commonly available materials. If you are a scholar&a gentleman, I would perchance make a copy of this material-including the military study-available to you for duplication&binding cost at Kinko's copies + postage. I really would like to see someone do something with this. In science, faith in the dominant paradigm-the currently fashionable threory- can amount to the "blind faith" of fundamentalist religion, although many scientists would not like to admit this to themselves. Perhaps, I feel, something like this happened in the case of the "neurophone". Dr. Puharich told me this is being charitable-greed as well as stupidity played a part here. The audiology researchers here saw possible loss of thier jobs, income from this technology, since it can give apparently 'normal' hearing(even listening to music!) to many totally deaf persons. It will not work on all deaf persons. It will either not work at all, or give the deaf ss fully functional 'normal' hearing in the frequency range 250-8500 hertz or so. Let me know more about yourself and your plans and perchance I will share this material with you. felis catus a.k.a. gw tilga, felis@frontiernet.net -----Original Message----- From: D Adams To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Friday, September 10, 1999 6:15 AM Subject: NEUROPHONE WANTED >anyone know where I can get a second hand or low cost one? > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 09:21:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA10857; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:21:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:21:32 -0700 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: NEUROPHONE WANTED Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:13:02 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: <000a01befba5$472f2440$acdb82d1@felis-catus> In-Reply-To: <000a01befba5$472f2440$acdb82d1@felis-catus> Lines: 105 X-Newsreader: VSoup v1.2.9.37Beta [95/NT] Resent-Message-ID: <"0itus2.0.Of2.B0Jst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11882 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Supervision at Griffis Air Force Base in the 1960's. You can order the >document through the National Technical Information Service. (NTIS) Data: >NTIS, 5285 Port royal road, Springfield, VA 22161` Document Number: >AD-459956 "Trans Dermal Electrostimulation Techniques of Hearing", by A. >Puharich MD and JL Lawerence,PhD. If any one wants ANY THING from NTIS then need to get it FAST! ================================= Subject: National Tech Info Service Gets Axe 08/12/99 This guy is clue less, there are millions of documents that NTIS has that can't be found on the web. I know because I've been looking for a lot of them. -------- Forwarded message -------- Newsgroups: clari.tw.top,clari.tw Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:20:22 PDT From: newsbytes@clari.net (NB / WAS) Subject: National Tech Info Service Gets Axe 08/12/99 WASHINGTON, DC, U.S.A., 1999 AUG 12 (NB) -- By Bob Woods, Newsbytes. Department of Commerce Secretary William M. Daley said late today that he wants to close the National Technical Information Service (NTIS), because the advent of the Internet and the personal computer has rendered the agency obsolete. The Commerce Department decided to axe the agency after an extensive review and analysis determined that the core function of NTIS, providing government information for a fee, is "no longer needed in this day of advanced electronic technology," department officials said in a statement. NTIS was established in 1950, at a time when the sale of government documents in microfiche and on paper was a necessity. Nowadays, though, most government agencies and entities have begun to post their reports on the Internet for free. NTIS' sales have dramatically declined over the last six years with the advent of the personal computer and increased use of the Internet, with NTIS' core clearinghouse not clearing a profit since fiscal year 1993, Commerce Department officials said. The department's Inspector General's March 1999 semiannual report to Congress concluded that "even with significant efforts to improve its profitability, NTIS can no longer generate sufficient revenue to remain self-supporting." "This was a tough decision to make, but sound management dictates that we cut our losses and recognize the technologically advanced environment we live in," Daley said in a statement. "This is the right thing to do and the best thing for the American taxpayer." Next month, the Commerce Department will send to Congress proposed legislation that would close NTIS and shift its paper, microfiche, digital archives and bibliographic database to the Library of Congress. Additionally, the Commerce Department said it would work to ensure that government technical and business information provided by government agencies remains available to the public for long periods of time, through currently existing search engines. The 250 people currently working at NTIS would receive job placement assistance, Daley also said, adding that he has sent a letter requesting the Office of Personnel Management's assistance with both the placement and retraining of NTIS employees. NTIS made headlines earlier this summer, after a gaffe involving the Gov.Search Web-based search service that charged for its use. NTIS along with privately held Northern Light, introduced the "gov.search" service (at http://www.usgovsearch.com ), saying the site would charge for searches, as well as accesses of documents from NTIS archives and from Northern Light's "special collection" of premium documents. But NTIS temporarily removed the fees from the site soon after its debut, out of concerns that the fee would violate a Clinton administration policy stating that all government information should be unrestricted and open to the public, NTIS Public Affairs Officer Renee Edwards told Newsbytes at the time. Those fees were set to be reinstated on June 1, but the free period continued for several days. In the process, though, the Commerce Dept. took its name off of gov.search, because of the Clinton administration policy. NTIS, however, will continue to collect revenues from individual articles accessed through the site, as it does with other document accesses sold through its other services. Revenues from gov.search's searching charge was originally envisioned to be split between NTIS and privately held Northern Light, Edwards said. Reported By Newsbytes.com, http://www.newsbytes.com . -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/ Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. http://www.uCOS-II.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 09:46:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA22269; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:46:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:46:23 -0700 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Neurophone vs Echophone Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:30:36 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: <00c001bef49a$474ca9a0$38b6bfd1@w7o9k8> <37D8DF37.BE14A0C3@telusplanet.net> In-Reply-To: <37D8DF37.BE14A0C3@telusplanet.net> Lines: 23 X-Newsreader: VSoup v1.2.9.37Beta [95/NT] Resent-Message-ID: <"oqNaD.0.oR5.VNJst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11883 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Any knowledge of or comparison? Im not sure which would be more beneficial >to my high range hearing loss. Not sure if every one knows or not, but there is a mailing list specifically for the discussion of such sound technologies as Neurophones [TM] and Echofone's [TM], and the like. You can subscribe by going here: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/ultrasound Don to your specific question SunilG covered this in some messages not long ago that you can find in the archives of the utlrasound list. I'm not sure how or why this is on the Freenrg...doesn't seem like the right place. >communication. Must be though, they work with dolphins too. Bob says the >new Thinkman is vastly improved and doesn't require adaption time in order Comapred to the Mark-XI, Neurophone. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 10:56:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA19933; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:56:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:56:03 -0700 Message-ID: <000701befbb6$06be3160$aa9cfea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: "Free Energy" Subject: TMB Kits. Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:58:00 -0500 Organization: N.E.S. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"kCALr1.0.It4.oOKst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11884 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Kits will be shipped in Contential US (and Hawaii) on schedule. If you are not in US see our web site and contact us so we can obtain specific customs information. Nu-Energy Systems Conquest is the beginning, enjoying the win is the real battle. http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 11:01:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA22321; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:00:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:00:58 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <881f6c94.250aa12e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:00:14 EDT Subject: Re:(to Stefan) PLEASE READ THIS! To: leoguitar@vossnet.de, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, energy21@listbot.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"foKDE1.0.gS5.OTKst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11885 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 9/10/99 6:04:53 AM Central Daylight Time, harti@harti.com writes: > Stefan, > > What if permanent magnet had a spin balance system incorporated as with > > Bertil Werjefelt? > > Hmm, maybe this could work, > but you have not pointed that out in the web site...so I did not know > this... > > So you say, the PM is pulled out via the spin balance system > incorporated as with > Bertil Werjefelt and you get the mechanical attraction from > the iron part as a free output ? > > Did you ever build any prototypes on this ? > > Regards, Stefan. > > P.S: Please study www.entropysystems.com > It is the breakthrough ! > Stefan, Yes, the iron would be free energy. Building prototype now. Thanks for input, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 11:19:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA01383; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37D9494A.5371A53@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:09:14 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: About my latest experiment with TMB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ISvTV.0.WL.UiKst"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11886 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Using the proper config (paper between magnet-N pole and the Sn plate) I obtained -77 mV on plate with paper with semi pure water (water used to add to car batteries). Highlighted points: - Magnetic field is required. - Magnetic polarity have no importance. - Paper is required. - placement of the paperless plate have no effect. It would be placed anywhere in the water. I think the role of the paper would be filtering or slowdowning the ions. If water contains H and OH ions, it would be logical that H ions are lighter, would be smaller (possibly does not have magnetic and electrical dipoles on) and travel faster, so woul d have more mobility than OH ions insider or trough the paper. If magnetic field force the affect ions movement paths, one plate would be attacked by some ions more than other. I think the energy released here is not free. A chemical reaction is possibly occurring with plates and the water. On previous exp. Zinc plates that I used (one at paper side) is noticeably eroded, and the paper is tainted by a grey color, same color as t he eroded part of the plate. Maybe some inoxidabe material used as plates would clarify this issue. Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 11:32:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA01724; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:31:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:31:40 -0700 Message-ID: <000901befbbb$006c3460$aa9cfea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: References: <37D9494A.5371A53@verisoft.com.tr> Subject: Re: About my latest experiment with TMB Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:33:38 -0500 Organization: N.E.S. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ndig91.0.rQ.CwKst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11887 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hamdi, have you looked at the comments section of the web site ? We have a lab which is also testing the TMB and they supplied a photo and assay of the paper ? Okay! Good, dump the water. I agree fully with one exception, we have never seen (N) pole other than +V. Have you seen Hartmans posts ? He says he gets the voltage without the magnet. Great fun! Except this is not fun and games. I agree get rid of the water, we have magnetic interaction with environmental charge that is (Oh I hate to say this... OU) in the sense only that it has no chemical or electrical input other than the magnetic field to produce the voltage. Here's the deal, Schmidt gone, Rex back Oct.1, and no one in the world want to join the group. You write test procedure for the kits we put out and I will send funds to you for the work. Idea is to make a kit that is interesting, real and worth while to display as science project or explore as AE researcher. This removes our time so we can move forward with BioProbe, BiPEG etc., which will be kits also. The rate will be 10% of kit price, for TMB that's $2.00 US for each we send out with your test/demo procedures. "TRUST" I will not screw you on what we deliver. ----- Original Message ----- From: hamdi ucar To: Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 1:09 PM Subject: About my latest experiment with TMB > > > Using the proper config (paper between magnet-N pole and the Sn plate) I obtained -77 mV on plate with paper with semi pure water (water used to add to car batteries). > > Highlighted points: > > - Magnetic field is required. > - Magnetic polarity have no importance. > - Paper is required. > - placement of the paperless plate have no effect. It would be placed anywhere in the water. > > I think the role of the paper would be filtering or slowdowning the ions. If water contains H and OH ions, it would be logical that H ions are lighter, would be smaller (possibly does not have magnetic and electrical dipoles on) and travel faster, so would have more mobility than OH ions insider or trough the paper. If magnetic field force the affect ions movement paths, one plate would be attacked by some ions more than other. > > > I think the energy released here is not free. A chemical reaction is possibly occurring with plates and the water. On previous exp. Zinc plates that I used (one at paper side) is noticeably eroded, and the paper is tainted by a grey color, same color as the eroded part of the plate. > > Maybe some inoxidabe material used as plates would clarify this issue. > > Regards, > > hamdi ucar > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 11:37:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA06365; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:37:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:37:26 -0700 Message-ID: <001501befbbb$cf759bc0$aa9cfea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Looking for Interest Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:39:26 -0500 Organization: N.E.S. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"iqfQn.0.IZ1.c_Kst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11888 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: We have been looking for local or maybe remote help, like Hamdi, for someone that would assist in documentation or required experiments on TMB and other products we are back logged on. If you have interest and feel you can do this for us, (short handed) at this time we will offer %10 of the kit sales to the assistant. We must operate on trust as maybe you will not be local. We want to get these kits out and have more coming, you want to help and make some cash, send me an email and we can talk. Nu-Energy Systems Conquest is the beginning, enjoying the win is the real battle. http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 12:10:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA04532; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:09:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:09:59 -0700 Message-ID: <001101befbc0$5bc23760$aa9cfea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: References: <37D9494A.5371A53@verisoft.com.tr> <000901befbbb$006c3460$aa9cfea9@fs11> Subject: Re: About my latest experiment with TMB Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:11:59 -0500 Organization: N.E.S. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"zCZzM1.0.j61.7ULst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11889 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: atg0317 To: Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 1:33 PM Subject: Re: About my latest experiment with TMB > > Okay! Good, dump the water. I agree fully with one exception, we have never > seen (N) pole other than +V. Have you seen Hartmans posts ? He says he gets > the voltage without the magnet. Great fun! Except this is not fun and games. > Stefan has indicated he has generated a voltage from two Sn plates, no magnet. This is very interesting as we have never done this. We are waiting to see his results of duplication. It could be something as simple as the 100Meg probe is just to great of an input Z and ambient fields are counter indicating the presence of a potential. What is very interesting from what he has done is that it may be possible to ordinate a metallic lattice in such a way that a voltage can be generated, although the books would really need to be rewritten here. Hope on hope he is able to duplicate this. I have offered materials to him in the hope that he has found something we missed. Great Fun! Where's the science, guess we can't count on science here, at least not from out end. > Any documentation or procedures writer out there we need a little help on setting up test procedures for TMB. If you have interest please contact me. What we need most is a way to standardize testing so we are all on the same page. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 12:33:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA16255; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:33:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:33:03 -0700 Message-ID: <37D95C6C.44E19054@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:30:52 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: About my latest experiment with TMB References: <37D9494A.5371A53@verisoft.com.tr> <000901befbbb$006c3460$aa9cfea9@fs11> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"P_bF62.0.sz3.kpLst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11890 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: atg0317 wrote: > > > Okay! Good, dump the water. I agree fully with one exception, we have never > seen (N) pole other than +V. No, polarity reversed about in hour, still have +93mV at S pole with paper. This drain 5uA trough DVM. Notice that I am using pure Sn (from hardware store) that I casted as 4mm thick plates. > Have you seen Hartmans posts ? He says he gets > the voltage without the magnet. Yes, this is interesting and confusing issue. I started to test without magnets, and I obtained few mV's. Now, just before writing this paragraph I removed the magnet and still TMB continue to work. The current is dropped to 2.9uA from 5uA where magnet wa s present. And still it is dropping. Now the voltage is stable at 67mV. This gives more complexity to the paper function. (few minutes after voltage reached to 61mV and lowering unnoticeably.) It appears that paper accumulate the magnet effect somehow. > > This removes our time so we can move forward with BioProbe, BiPEG etc., > which will be kits also. > The rate will be 10% of kit price, for TMB that's $2.00 US for each we send > out with your test/demo procedures. "TRUST" I will not screw you on what we > deliver. > Thanks I will. What is needed is a write a strong experimentation procedure and standard report form. This would help to compare test results. I think as the experiment continues TMB will diverse more. It would be hard to obtain conclusions from the data coming all of different experiments. Revisiting Bipeg is important for me as I observed my first and most significant anomalies in the "OU" research. Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 12:34:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA17172; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:34:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:34:25 -0700 Message-ID: <000701befbc3$c59abec0$aa9cfea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Seebeck Effect Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:36:25 -0500 Organization: N.E.S. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"muKYS3.0.DC4.1rLst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11891 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There was a post today which referenced the soldering of a wire to the Sn plates used in the TMB and resulting in a junction which could result in a Seebeck Effect. This appeared to be of interest and as a result a plate of Sn was constructed with multiple solder mounds on it with copper wires attached to each mound (junctions connected in parallel). NO! this is not a Seebeck Effect as a result of solder to Sn junction. We obtained less current from this configuration than if the output wire (connecting) was as we have been using (in the center of the plate). It would have been interesting should this have been the answer as it still would point to an enhanced effect by transverse magnetic field. Nu-Energy Systems Conquest is the beginning, enjoying the win is the real battle. http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 12:49:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA22236; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:49:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:49:04 -0700 Message-ID: <37D9609F.B7874CEE@harti.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:48:48 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: Is this the engine of the 21st century ? X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <37D8EFF5.2DA4284F@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mwIt11.0.KR5.l2Mst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11892 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, http://www.entropysystems.com/MorePicESI22.htm has anybody on this list already seen any eye witness demo or does know anybody who has seen this machine self operate and cool down the environmental heat ? Regards, Stefan. Bob Paddock schrieb: > > >http://www.entropysystems.com/MorePicESI22.htm > > Lets hope so. I've been invited to the News Conference for > it later this month, so hope to see it in person soon. > There is a bit of info on it at my web site, I need to > update it. > > Also look at http://www.oilcity.org/research/ for some links > to Department of Energy Handbooks on Thermodynamics and > other handbooks relevant to the list here. Always good to > brush up on such things. > > - -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 12:59:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA27027; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:59:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:59:43 -0700 Message-ID: <37D9631C.E8E598DB@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:59:24 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Is this the engine of the 21st century ? References: <37D8EFF5.2DA4284F@harti.com> <37D9609F.B7874CEE@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1_Nbz1.0.Cc6.lCMst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11893 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Hi, > > http://www.entropysystems.com/MorePicESI22.htm > > has anybody on this list already seen any > eye witness demo or does know anybody who has seen > this machine self operate and cool down the environmental heat ? > > Regards, Stefan. > I hate when no operating figures are given. What is good for all this pictures? I do not buy this. Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 13:01:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA27413; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:00:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:00:59 -0700 Message-ID: <37D96371.E9316D0@harti.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:00:49 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, atg0317 Subject: Re: MFVC design ? X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <002301befb96$6071f5e0$5e3dfea9@fs11> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zrVv63.0.9i6.wDMst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11894 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ron, does MFVC require a power supply with which you generate an electrical "helper field" with the use of the 3rd plate, so you have an electrical field into the same direction as the magnetical B field ? If this is true, did you measure the input current into the electrical "capacitor" field ? Is the required power less than the output you get when the Green LED is lighting up ? Why is Nu-Energy Systems at all spending so much time on MikroWatt TMB, if you can scale up MFVC in the MilliWatts range or even more or if your claim is valid, that you had a self running BIPEG or ECAT ?? If you really had a self running BIPEG or ECAT with electrical overunity output, why at all spend so much time with the TMB kits ....? Sounds pretty unlogical to me... As www.entropysystems.com now also introduced a free energy machine in the 70 Watts overunity range, it is unlogical to me to supress any electrical solid state heat to electricity converter circuit. Just my point of view... Regards, Stefan. atg0317 schrieb: > > > Nu-Energy Systems > Conquest is the beginning, enjoying the win is the real battle. > http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/index.htm -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 13:40:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA11176; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:38:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:38:29 -0700 Message-ID: <37D96C21.3BD0758B@harti.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:37:53 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, hamdi ucar , atg0317 , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: My latest experiments with TMB X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <37D9494A.5371A53@verisoft.com.tr> <000901befbbb$006c3460$aa9cfea9@fs11> <37D95C6C.44E19054@verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AkG9E2.0.Wk2.4nMst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11895 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hamdi ucar schrieb: > > atg0317 wrote: > > > > > > > Okay! Good, dump the water. I agree fully with one exception, we have never > > seen (N) pole other than +V. > > No, polarity reversed about in hour, still have +93mV at S pole with paper. This drain 5uA trough DVM. Notice that I am using pure Sn (from hardware store) that I casted as 4mm thick plates. > > > Have you seen Hartmans posts ? He says he gets > > the voltage without the magnet. > > Yes, this is interesting and confusing issue. I started to test without magnets, and I obtained few mV's. Now, just before >writing this paragraph I removed the magnet and still TMB continue to work. The current is dropped to 2.9uA from 5uA where magnet >was present. And still it is dropping. Now the voltage is stable at 67mV. This gives more complexity to the paper function. (few >minutes after voltage reached to 61mV and lowering unnoticeably.) It appears that paper accumulate the magnet effect someho w. Well, was this with just 2 Sn plates or SN-Cu plates combination ? I just did rerun my experiment and I am still unsure what to think... Sometimes I get about 50 mVolts of voltage on the 2 Sn plates WITHOUT magnets and it seems really to depend on the paper between the 2 Sn plates and how the plates overlap and how strong the pressure is, with which they are clamped together... Also on one outside of one Sn plate to have a 3 mm thick Polycarbon plastic plate to have is helpful to get a 50 mVolts voltage. Sometimes I did get no voltage. It is really strange... No it is not a scope leakage effect, when I reversed the crocodile clamps onto the plates the polarity changed on the cap. Well, when using permanent magnets outside of the 2 Sn plates I always get about 50 mVolts voltage when clamping all together. Today I used a different clamp, which I bought today, which has isolated (plastic) clamp endings, but also has an iron core.. Did not yet find a complete good plastic clamp with enough pressure. Still have to get larger sized magnets, this way experimentation makes no sense...the output is much too low... Hate to experiment with TMB, while I could duplicate MFVC and light an LED and NES does not tell us, how it works... ;( All experiments with Cu and Sn seem to indicate galvanic battery effects, if insolation paper gets wet. I guess we have 2 effects here: 1. Pressure induced voltage production in the 50 to 150 mV range, depending what metal is used. Depends strongly on insolation material between the plates ! 2. Galvanic battery effect with 2 different metals and insolation paper might contain moving ions. Voltage production in the 200 to 700 mVolts range depending on paper wetness and insolation material. Will try now another experiment with my arcs charging different capacitors.. (not TMB related..) Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 13:53:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA16449; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:52:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:52:02 -0700 Message-ID: <37D96F62.9CD5745D@harti.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:51:46 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, hamdi ucar Subject: Re: Is this the engine of the 21st century ? References: <37D8EFF5.2DA4284F@harti.com> <37D9609F.B7874CEE@harti.com> <37D9631C.E8E598DB@verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0FpK-3.0.w04.ozMst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11896 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hamdi ucar schrieb: > > Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > http://www.entropysystems.com/MorePicESI22.htm > > > > has anybody on this list already seen any > > eye witness demo or does know anybody who has seen > > this machine self operate and cool down the environmental heat ? > > > > Regards, Stefan. > > > > I hate when no operating figures are given. What is good for all this pictures? I do not buy this. > > Regards, > > hamdi ucar Hi Hamdi, there is much more on the site and I have already seen measurement results in their technical documentation area. You need to get a password and access also all PDF files ! Very interesting device. Dieter Bauer already has an idea how this AMIN cycle could work. He is working on a simular thermodynamics cycle and has written a PC program to study the diagrams with different 2 gaseous mixture materials in a gravitational field and tries to see how the PV diagrams convert... He will soon publish an article about it. Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 13:57:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA18623; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:55:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:55:56 -0700 Message-ID: <000f01befbcf$272b3e20$aa9cfea9@fs11> From: "atg0317" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Fw: MFVC design ? Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:57:53 -0500 Organization: N.E.S. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"4k-LZ.0.uY4.S1Nst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11897 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Stefan Hartmann To: atg0317 Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 3:41 PM Subject: Re: MFVC design ? > > > atg0317 schrieb: > > > > What is this "CRAP". > > > > If you are trying to turn Nu-Energy into another SMOT, don't waste your > > time. > > > > It was you that continually suggested we offer a kit. > > > > You got it Bro!, Take it or leave it.......... > > > > We (I as Principle) will be more than happily to withdraw all participation > > from such "BULL SHIT", > > maybe you are one of those that want to discredit FE ? > > > > PLEASE KEEP YOUR US DOLLARS AND CONVERT THEM BACK INTO MARKS, YOU DON'T WANT > > ANYTHING TO DO WITH TMB. > > ???? > > Did I hurt you somehow ? > > I don´t understand, please explain ! > > Regards, Stefan. > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Stefan Hartmann > > To: ; atg0317 > > Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 3:00 PM > > Subject: Re: MFVC design ? > > > > > Hi Ron, > > > > > > does MFVC require a power supply with which you generate > > > an electrical "helper field" with the use of the 3rd plate, > > > so you have an electrical field into the same direction as the > > > magnetical B field ? > > > > > > If this is true, did you measure the input current into the > > > electrical "capacitor" field ? > > > Is the required power less than the output you get > > > when the Green LED is lighting up ? > > > > > > Why is Nu-Energy Systems at all spending so much time > > > on MikroWatt TMB, if you can scale up MFVC in the MilliWatts range or > > > even more > > > or if your claim is valid, that you had a self running BIPEG or ECAT ?? > > > > > > If you really had a self running BIPEG or ECAT with electrical overunity > > > output, > > > why at all spend so much time with the TMB kits ....? > > > Sounds pretty unlogical to me... > > > As www.entropysystems.com now also introduced a free energy machine > > > in the 70 Watts overunity range, it is unlogical to me to supress any > > > electrical > > > solid state heat to electricity converter circuit. > > > > > > Just my point of view... > > > > > > > > > Regards, Stefan. > > > > > > > > > > > > atg0317 schrieb: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nu-Energy Systems > > > > Conquest is the beginning, enjoying the win is the real battle. > > > > http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/index.htm > > > > > > -- > > > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > > > Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > > > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > > > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > > > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! > > > > > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 14:11:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA25645; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:09:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:09:41 -0700 From: Trevmaniac@aol.com Message-ID: <6606e89c.250acd6b@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:08:59 EDT Subject: Re: Vortices and Negative Entropy To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"pbIAL3.0.YG6.KENst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11898 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This site is great! Lots of good info. But $75,000 for a simple machine is ridiculous. Besides, they don't use vortex technology. Vortex flow could eliminate moving parts and keep frictional losses to a minimum. TS http://www.entropysystems.com They have a running system ! Trevmaniac@aol.com schrieb: > > Hi all, > > I was digging into Viktor Schauberger's ideas recently and came across a > fascinating site at > > www.lastrega.com/Hasslberger > > which suggests that vortices exhibit negative entropy (ie, a spontaineous > increase in rotational kinetic energy at the expense of ambient thermal > energy). I recently expereinced this very effect when a small atmospheric > tornado caused the local temperature to fall from 55F to 48F while giant > hailstones battered my car. All this in Seattle (Bothell) in the month of > August! > > I was wondering if anyone has built a water vortex generator? Or noticed a > temperature drop? Or noticed excess kinetic energy at the outlet? Or > attempted to power the vortex with that excess? I imagine a self-feeding > vortex would continue to operate until the water froze out (as in the mini > tornado). > > Somebody posted a note recdently about a special kind of funnel with a > logarithmic profile. Something that would assist the vortex to form. Are > these funnels available anywhere? > > Trevor Sleath > Snohomish WA From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 14:40:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA00917; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:39:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:39:13 -0700 Message-ID: <002201befbd5$23c56f20$2e5323cb@-> From: "Peter Nielsen" To: Subject: Re: TIME !!!!!! Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:12:02 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"e5_Z-1.0.EE.1gNst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11899 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Are you saying that they are considering that their overunity is coming from a >time differential ? > >That's what I've always theorised myself. > A time differential is created whenever a vectoral component is added or removed. There is a functional equivalency, but the time flow must be isolated for the difference to be noted. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 14:55:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA23275; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:55:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:55:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:54:55 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Strange Lights in Turkey Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA23163 Resent-Message-ID: <"7q5YF1.0.Jh5.quNst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11900 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:29:59 -0400 From: "konac@pop3.ada.net.tr" Reply-To: konac@ada.net.tr To: NOSTRADAMUS Subject: Strange Lights NOSTRADAMUS - http://esoterism.com/nostradamus/ Hello everyone, Since Red mentioned about the strange lights seen in South Oregon, I also would like to give you some info about what’s going on here in Turkey. Well, ever since the earthquake, some very strange lights are clearly seen all over Western Turkey. They are incredibly clear, circular or triangular in shape, white, yellow, red and blue colored, remain visible in the sky for 5 to 20 minutes, following a materializing-dematerializing pattern. The funny thing is it became a routine thing as they have been showing up twice or three times a week recently. They became an inevitable component of the TV news and media. Furthermore, just before the quake, the bottom of the sea in Izmit went red and the sea temperature went up to 40-45 degrees C. However, there are no underwater volcanos in the Sea of Marmara!!! Starting two days before the quake, hundreds of fish, crabs and other sea life forms died and not naturally! Somehow, they were burned!!!!! The fish nets of the fishermen were burned and we have several rock and stone samples from the sea, which went black in color. TUVPO (Turkish UFO and Paranormal Organization) is co-operating with the Smithsonian Institute and a few universities in the U.S..We already sent them some rock and burned fishnet samples, upon their request. Folks at TUVPO will hopefully run a spectrum analysis on the video tapes. Some fishermen are also saying that they witnessed an explosion under the sea. And then guess what… Fireballs, strange lights, sightings never ended in Turkey. At the same time more quakes with smaller scales are still ongoing in a wide range of area. As you know Greece was hit by a 5.9 quake a couple of days ago. Hundreds of other quakes vary from 3.5 to 5.2 in Turkey. They can’t be the aftershock quakes because they occur on totally different fault lines. The following are the possibilities that are discussed here as regards to those lights: 1. UFOs 2. Anomalous Lumnious Phenomena (Earth Lights or Earthquake Lights) 3. Sudden release of methane gas from the surface of the Earth as a result of a major quake. (Not likely though) 4. Unknown underwater volcanic activity Well, noone knows what is going on here but I will appreciate your TECHNICAL comments, if you have any. Sorry, I know this has nothing to do with Nosty but I would also be glad if you could provide some info on that so-called Tesla and Plasma Weapon Prototypes. Sincerely, HAKAN --------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web (http://www.mail2web.com/) Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: (http://www.yourhosting.com/) --------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, write to NOSTRADAMUS-unsubscribe@listbot.com MSN Messenger Service lets you stay in touch instantly with your family & friends - Visit http://messenger.msn.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 15:11:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA22074; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:11:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:11:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37D98171.B4D276FD@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 01:08:49 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: My latest experiments with TMB References: <37D9494A.5371A53@verisoft.com.tr> <000901befbbb$006c3460$aa9cfea9@fs11> <37D95C6C.44E19054@verisoft.com.tr> <37D96C21.3BD0758B@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ztvmg1.0.pO5.18Ost"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11901 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Well, was this with just 2 Sn plates or SN-Cu plates combination ? 2 Sn plates. Now one is placed against the container wall while other side is covered with a piece of paper and a plastic transparent audio cassette cover piece against the paper. No pressure applied. Other Sn plate is simply immersed in water placed at a distance, not aligned or parallel to other plate. Voltage is now 74mV is increased from the 67-61 mV 90 minutes ago. This is strange. No magnet. ... I left the magnet stack 30 cm from the cell. I dont know is it affecting the cell. I will put the magne t far from cell and see if the voltage will change. ... No, it continue to increase. Maybe the cause of this increase is increasing the internal resistance of the cell (not yet measured) by oxidation of the plates. > I just did rerun my experiment and I am still unsure what to think... > > Sometimes I get about 50 mVolts of voltage on the 2 Sn plates WITHOUT > magnets > and it seems really to depend on the paper between the 2 Sn plates and > how the plates > overlap and how strong the pressure is, with which they are clamped > together... > Also on one outside of one Sn plate to have a 3 mm thick Polycarbon > plastic plate to have > is helpful to get a 50 mVolts voltage. > > Sometimes I did get no voltage. It is really strange... A real puzzle. There is yet no consistent results yet to determine what would be basic requirements for the cell operate. Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 15:21:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA05907; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:21:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:21:01 -0700 Message-ID: <37D98435.66CEDEDA@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 01:20:37 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Is this the engine of the 21st century ? References: <37D8EFF5.2DA4284F@harti.com> <37D9609F.B7874CEE@harti.com> <37D9631C.E8E598DB@verisoft.com.tr> <37D96F62.9CD5745D@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Q5x5S.0.BS1.CHOst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11902 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I had already registered me but when tried to access to documents, a page as "Entropy Systems Inc. Technical Information Good evening ADODB.Field error '80020009' Either BOF or EOF is True, or the current record has been deleted; the operation requested by the application requires a current record. /User/UserHome.asp, line 44 " is displayed. No luck. Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > hamdi ucar schrieb: > > > Hi Hamdi, > > there is much more on the site > and I have already seen measurement results > in their technical documentation area. > > You need to get a password and access also all > PDF files ! > > Very interesting device. > [snip] Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 15:56:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA08646; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:55:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:55:44 -0700 From: RoConroy@aol.com Message-ID: <285f0cd1.250ae640@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:54:56 EDT Subject: Re: Strange Lights in Turkey To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"J5WbB1.0._62.lnOst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11903 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 9/10/99 4:55:28 PM Central Daylight Time, billb@eskimo.com writes: << Since Red mentioned about the strange lights seen in South Oregon, I also would like to give you some info about what is going on here in Turkey. Well, ever since the earthquake, some very strange lights are clearly seen all over Western Turkey >> I just finished reading "The Rift" by Walter J. Williams and another book which I think was called "8.4". Both were fictional novels about another New Madrid, Missouri earthquake. Both gave historical descriptions of the old quake and they both mentioned lights, dead fish, and temperature variations. The thought is that the strains within the earth are causing some kind of energy release. They also mentioned that the animals seemed to go nuts. Bob From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 17:03:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA13653; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:03:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:03:01 -0700 Message-ID: <37D97270.843@intergate.bc.ca> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:04:48 -0400 From: Alik Shereshevsky Reply-To: alik@intergate.bc.ca X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Strange Lights in Turkey References: <285f0cd1.250ae640@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KtxpX3.0.AL3.rmPst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11904 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: One question, where in Oregon are the strange lights showing up ? Alik S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 17:59:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA04344; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:59:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:59:01 -0700 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:19:15 -0700 Subject: What we've all been looking for ??? Message-ID: <19990910.165717.-491615.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Tim Vaughn Resent-Message-ID: <"1suLC3.0.e31.KbQst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11905 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This looks serious: http://www.entropysystems.com/ Tim ( tv@juno.com ) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 19:48:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA08613; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:48:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:48:09 -0700 Message-ID: <37D9C2E9.3C98713E@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:48:09 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: About my latest experiment with TMB References: <37D9494A.5371A53@verisoft.com.tr> <000901befbbb$006c3460$aa9cfea9@fs11> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2bsAG1.0.U62.eBSst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11906 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: atg0317 wrote: > > Here's the deal, Schmidt gone, Rex back Oct.1, and no one in the world want > to join the group. I assume that New Zealand is too distant? I would love to join such an effective group. (two anomalous technologies so quickly) > You write test procedure for the kits we put out and I > will send funds to you for the work. Idea is to make a kit that is > interesting, real and worth while to display as science project or explore > as AE researcher. > > This removes our time so we can move forward with BioProbe, BiPEG etc., > which will be kits also. > The rate will be 10% of kit price, for TMB that's $2.00 US for each we send > out with your test/demo procedures. "TRUST" I will not screw you on what we > deliver. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: hamdi ucar > To: > Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 1:09 PM > Subject: About my latest experiment with TMB > > > > > > > Using the proper config (paper between magnet-N pole and the Sn plate) I > obtained -77 mV on plate with paper with semi pure water (water used to add > to car batteries). > > > > Highlighted points: > > > > - Magnetic field is required. > > - Magnetic polarity have no importance. > > - Paper is required. > > - placement of the paperless plate have no effect. It would be placed > anywhere in the water. > > > > I think the role of the paper would be filtering or slowdowning the ions. > If water contains H and OH ions, it would be logical that H ions are > lighter, would be smaller (possibly does not have magnetic and electrical > dipoles on) and travel faster, so would have more mobility than OH ions > insider or trough the paper. If magnetic field force the affect ions > movement paths, one plate would be attacked by some ions more than other. > > > > > > I think the energy released here is not free. A chemical reaction is > possibly occurring with plates and the water. On previous exp. Zinc plates > that I used (one at paper side) is noticeably eroded, and the paper is > tainted by a grey color, same color as the eroded part of the plate. > > > > Maybe some inoxidabe material used as plates would clarify this issue. > > > > Regards, > > > > hamdi ucar > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 20:17:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA18448; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:17:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:17:21 -0700 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, herman@college.antioch-college.edu Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:11:36 -0700 Subject: Re: What we've all been looking for ??? Message-ID: <19990910.191147.-491615.2.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-6,8-10,14-15,18-19,22-23,25,27-28,34-46,48-49,51,53,55,57,59-60,62-63,65,67-68,70-71,73-75,77-110 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Tim Vaughn Resent-Message-ID: <"_YOCO.0.6W4.0dSst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11907 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >John said: >This is NOT free energy. It IS a good heat engine. Are you sure, John? The inventor claims it creates its own heat sink in an ambient heat medium. A definite macroscopic violation of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamic (I don't believe in the tyranny of the 2nd law). A device that derives energy from the kinetic energy of air molecules with no need for a temperature difference is a free energy machine in my book. I think this thing may be like the legendary vortex invention of Victor Schauberger which was (according to legend) actively suppressed by the U.S. Government. The difference being that this device uses air instead of water like Schauberger. Could it simply be that the kinetic energy of air molecules is being organized by the vortex that is so clearly described as being integral to the function of this device ? Entropy systems is located in Youngstown, Ohio. Is there somebody near this company that could go see if this thing is really the self sustaining free energy device they claim ? Please make a video and have someone put it on real-video or quicktime server. Maybe the inventor would be interested in an interview on the Art Bell show !! If this is the first practical outcome of ambient energy (free energy) research, we are in for some real exciting times. The world political and money powers can no longer keep this cat in the bag. It is a major threat to the current worldwide system of feudalism. I would be on the alert for the usual tactic of creating a problem and then offering its solution. A little war or economic upheaval anyone ? I am not paranoid, just observant. Tim -------------------------------------------------------------- The performance characteristics of Model # ESI22 are as follows: * Working medium is Air. (Model #ESI22 is a beta version.) * ESI22 converts heat at any temperature in the working medium to power and in the process lowers its temperature. * As temperature of the working medium reduces below the surrounding temperature, heat from the surrounding starts to flow into the working medium due to the temperature gradient. ESI22 operates on the Amin Cycle. Efficiency of a heat engine operating on the Amin Cycle is greater than that of Carnot's Cycle. COP of a refrigerator operating on the Amin Cycle is greater than Carnot's. The heat conversion efficiency in the Carnot's Cycle depends on the magnitude of the temperature gradient while the heat conversion efficiency in the Amin Cycle depends on the magnitude of the acceleration gradient. * ESI22 creates it's own temperature gradient. In other words, it acts as a room temperature Superconductor of Heat. * ESI22 converts up to 76 Watts of heat to power at peak performance. Temperature of the working medium drops upto 3.8 deg F. No heat is rejected out of the working medium. There is no heat sink for the working medium. * For measured temperature decrease of 3.8 deg F. Carnot's Cycle efficiency is 0.7% and Amin Cycle efficiency is 100% ESI22 has the following dimensions: Length: 24.5" (622.3mm) Width: 16.5" (419.1mm) Height: 14" (355.6mm) On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:59:07 -0400 (EDT) John Schnurer writes: > > > Dear Vo., > > NOTE: My posts do not go to frenergy. > > I went to this page. > > This is a nice heat motor.... a prime mover that runs on low > levels, or "low grade" heat. The first commercial product is not > out yet. > You can buy industrial model is USD $ 75,000 .oo ... yes, 75K > dollars. > > This is NOT free energy. It IS a good heat engine. > > I really hope they get it up, if it was reasonable, I would > buy > it, I would drive mine with the sun and use some of the energy to > break > water to H and O for use at night. > > They have my respect. > > > > > On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Tim Vaughn wrote: > > > This looks serious: > > > > http://www.entropysystems.com/ > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 20:37:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA24091; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:37:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:37:02 -0700 To: news@EntropySystems.com Cc: vortex-L@eskimo.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:35:18 -0700 Subject: Amin Cycle Self Sustaining ? Message-ID: <19990910.193638.-491615.3.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,8-16 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Tim Vaughn Resent-Message-ID: <"EpeSl2.0.Eu5.TvSst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11908 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear sirs, Do I understand correctly that this device will produce power and self sustain using only ambient heat with temperature difference ? I have long had the conviction that it is possible to order the molecular kinetic energy of ambient heat. I have been searching for a way to to this for the last 15 years. It would appear that you have found it ! Congradulations. Will there be a public demonstration ? I would like to see it myself. Thank you, Tim Vaughan Tim ( tv@juno.com ) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 20:47:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA28284; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:46:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:46:52 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:46:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Strange Lights in Turkey To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA28265 Resent-Message-ID: <"U6Gyt3.0.rv6.h2Tst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11909 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, William Beaty wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:29:59 -0400 > From: "konac@pop3.ada.net.tr" > Reply-To: konac@ada.net.tr > To: NOSTRADAMUS > Subject: Strange Lights > > NOSTRADAMUS - http://esoterism.com/nostradamus/ > > Hello everyone, > > Since Red mentioned about the strange lights seen in South Oregon, I > also would like to give you some info about what’s going on here in > Turkey. Well, ever since the earthquake, some very strange lights are > clearly seen all over Western Turkey. They are incredibly clear, circular > or triangular in shape, white, yellow, red and blue colored, remain visible > in the sky for 5 to 20 minutes, following a materializing-dematerializing > pattern. The funny thing is it became a routine thing as they have been > showing up twice or three times a week recently. They became an > inevitable component of the TV news and media. > [snip] > > Sincerely, > > HAKAN > These are usually called "earthquake lights" or "spook lights". They are actually fairly common in the vicinity of earthquakes. I read one interesting explanation in the book EXCALIBUR BRIEFING by Thomas E. Bearden. The book is out of print now and difficult to obtain, but I found it through an interlibrary loan in the Illinois library system a couple years ago. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 21:08:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA01184; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:08:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:08:24 -0700 Message-ID: <37D9D5F7.97084FF2@microtec.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:09:27 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Strange Lights in Turkey References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FPvj02.0.PI.uMTst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11910 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I recall, from a TLC report, that Earth Quake Lights are electro-static plasma balls. That is, since a volcano is a very huge and hot system, the friction and heat causes electro-static charges to accumulate, this causes an intense electrical field, this interracts with the earth's electromagnetic field. I'm no physicist, but I suggest that this is a plasma form of electrical and electromagnetic forces, and as I recall, those "strange lights" dances and has an erratic movement, just like if it was a UFO, in fact a lot of UFO's could be explained by this phenomena. As I also recall, a volcanic eruption also makes thunder and lightning. As I saw the movies of a volcano erupting, I saw all the hot ashes coming out of the "mouth" Then about 1000 meters high the ashes formed a mushroom cloud, which extends to about 12000 meters, as the ash cloud condenses and since the cloud is extremely dense it forms a thunder storm. And the volume is extremely small, with water vapour you need a cloud 12 to 20 miles high and about at least 10 miles thick, then you also need a lot of heat at the base to fuel the cloud, then with the uprise the water clouds form a thunder storm. But an ash cloud thunder storm is about at least 200 meters wide and 1000 meters high, and that little space is all that is needed to form a volcanic thunder storm Also, as the ash cloud expands and condenses, and depending on it's size, there is some sort of "rain" falling from it, that is like extremely hot mud, and this can cause dangerous mud and ash slides. So volcanoes produce lightning, thunder, extremely dense mushroom clouds, mud slides, condensation, it blocks the sun's light. So what's new ? it also triggers strange lights. But I must ask you a question, are you seeing flashes like lightning or are you seeing dancing balls of light. And also I have a question, are they green. As green is the most common color for those lights. Thanks. Zack Widup wrote: > On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, William Beaty wrote: > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:29:59 -0400 > > From: "konac@pop3.ada.net.tr" > > Reply-To: konac@ada.net.tr > > To: NOSTRADAMUS > > Subject: Strange Lights > > > > NOSTRADAMUS - http://esoterism.com/nostradamus/ > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > Since Red mentioned about the strange lights seen in South Oregon, I > > also would like to give you some info about what’s going on here in > > Turkey. Well, ever since the earthquake, some very strange lights are > > clearly seen all over Western Turkey. They are incredibly clear, circular > > or triangular in shape, white, yellow, red and blue colored, remain visible > > in the sky for 5 to 20 minutes, following a materializing-dematerializing > > pattern. The funny thing is it became a routine thing as they have been > > showing up twice or three times a week recently. They became an > > inevitable component of the TV news and media. > > > [snip] > > > > Sincerely, > > > > HAKAN > > > > These are usually called "earthquake lights" or "spook lights". They are > actually fairly common in the vicinity of earthquakes. > > I read one interesting explanation in the book EXCALIBUR BRIEFING by > Thomas E. Bearden. The book is out of print now and difficult to obtain, > but I found it through an interlibrary loan in the Illinois library system a > couple years ago. > > Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 21:19:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA04028; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:19:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:19:40 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:32:38 -0600 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: TELEVISION SPECIAL Resent-Message-ID: <"3SocA2.0.r-.RXTst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11911 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The History Channel will be broadcasting a Special entitled, "The World's Greatest Conspiracies" (formerly on the A&E Network) which features Joseph Newman's struggle to bring forth his revolutionary technology. The Special aired Friday night and will supposedly air again tomorrow and also over the next several days. For those who have not seen this excellent Special, I would suggest that you consult your local listings guide to ascertain when it will be featured in your area/time zone. Also, you may wish to contact your friends and relatives and suggest that they also watch the show. Evan Soule' ___________________________ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:29:36 -0700 From: Greg East Subject: voltage yes...current no. CONFIRMED I want to share some real cool finding with the List. I have been conducting investigations involving principles taught by Joseph Newman, as well as by Tesla and some others. Basically, I wanted to see if I could make a motor run off of the energy captured from radio broadcasts. Without elaborating on the details (mostly because I'm still sorting it out) I have taken the neo magnet rotor from my Newman motor and constructed a slightly different type of Neman motor....quite simple in its construction and similar to what Stefan posted to the list a while back. I have two coils positioned radially and diametrically opposed. The rotor ends sweep past the interior ends of the coils. This motor runs simply by properly timing and commutating the polarities of the coils as you would expect. The coils may be powered either in parallel or in series... again, as you would expect. I found a way to rectifiy radio waves in such a way that you end up with plus AND minus potentials around ground which makes commutation simple. Again, I'm not going to elaborate on the (simple)circuitry. What is on-topic here is that a solar cell and radio EM load somewhat similarly. It is easy to overload the power. In the beginning, I was concerned with only lighting a Red LED using RF energy...I wasn't even thinking about a motor. It illuminated easily from the RF energy! That being the case, I decided I was going to make a motor run off of RF too. When I hooked everything up, I made and broke the contacts manually and I could see the rotor torque ever so slightly. So I fiddled some more and got it to rotate about 15 degrees or so before it was overcome by being slightly out of balance. I worked on that for a while and got it as good as possible. Still I could not get the rotor to turn a full 360 degs. Then I became aware that I was fighting a torque in reaction to the Earth's magnetic field ... like a compass. If you've used neo-magnets, you know this can be a considerable torque considering all things. With the miniscule powers and fields I'm working with here, this torque is a big factor. So I placed another neo-magnet at some distance from the motor and effectively compensated for the torque. Then I built the commutator. Can you belive it finally worked ... rotating about once every five seconds on only a few microwatts beings received by a couple of antennas. Oh, I used my car as one of the antennas and a piece of a gate for the other. Now here's where I confirm what Joseph Newman is claiming about voltage vs. current. Since my power levels are so low, what a perfect oportunity to test Joe's claims. I instinctively hooked the coils up in series from the start. So I switched the wires around so the coils were in parallel. As you know, the series connection will draw less current and maintain a higher voltage, and the parallel connection will draw more current and pull the voltage down twice as much ... in my case (the coils are pretty much the same). Well, it wouldn't even overcome bearing friction, and I have some very high quality precision bearings in this thing. So I'm convinced that Joseph Newman is correct in some, if not all, of his claims. Thought I'd share this with you all, Greg East ____________________________________ Thank you, Greg East. Greg East deserves thanks for pursuing the TRUTH! Thanks also to Greg for showing others how to THINK. Now I ask all other honest technical individuals to join in with Greg East's honesty and so verify my Life's Work for Humanity by any other constructive method following my teachings for humanity. Together we will bring forth the Advancement of the Human Race into the immediate upcoming 21st century. Join me in bringing forth its MASS PRODUCTION FOR ALL HUMANITY. Thanks and love to Humanity, [Signed] Joseph W. Newman (480) 657-3722 11445 East Via Linda, No. 416 Scottsdale, Arizona 85259 www.josephnewman.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 21:47:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA13588; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:47:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:47:00 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990910213649.1c2f5c02@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:36:49 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Phantom Charge In-Reply-To: <000b01befb9d$19539d60$a8fbfea9@fs11> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"zz_y01.0.8K3.3xTst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11912 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi atg and all, At 09:59 AM 9/10/99 -0500, you wrote: >I just finished a conversation with what appears to be an individual that at >first seemed ok, but now I'm not so sure and would like some feedback. > >He explained in some detail about how the TMB can be the product of a >Phantom or Mirrored charge. I went to the text books and the only reference >I found was a charged body in proximity to a grounded plate and a Phantom >charge being formed within the ground plate. > >What I was told and this is where it gets a little strange, is that a >Phantom can be constructed to mirror or pair with charges in a non-closed >loop way. What is a non-closed loop in this context? I've seen the image (mirrored) charge used only when there was already a charge, typically near a ground plane. The image charges formed planes with the real charges that were equipotential, so the solution was the same as with a ground plane at this equipotential plane, but without the image charge(s). -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 21:47:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA13679; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:47:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:47:09 -0700 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:32:23 -0700 Subject: Amin cycle device in Wired Message-ID: <19990910.204623.-491615.4.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Tim Vaughn Resent-Message-ID: <"NkNzq.0.WL3.DxTst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11913 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Checkout the article in Wired magazine http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/21641.htmlTim ( tv@juno.com ) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 22:36:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA29115; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:36:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:36:02 -0700 Message-ID: <37D9E028.8316BAF9@mail.admiral.ru> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:52:57 +0400 From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Reply-To: frolov@mail.admiral.ru Organization: Home Lab X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Vortices and Negative Entropy References: <6079ccf8.2509f2dc@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"m_cRt2.0.j67.2fUst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11914 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, there is other way for realization of the same idea http://www,time-machine.spb.ru/shauberger.htm Main principle is axial input and radial output. So, some axial propulsion force can be created. This force will increase kinetic energy of the particles also. Alexander V. Frolov -- http://www.time-machine.spb.ru ICQ 43757451 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 23:00:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA02975; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:00:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:00:36 -0700 Message-ID: <19990911060005.68603.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.255.80.158] From: "Timothy Flytcher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Amin cycle device in Wired Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:00:04 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"z51YQ.0.Ok.30Vst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11915 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Tim and All... Please don't take this wrong.... but I hate this!!! what article??? what category ??? I received and read over 40 e-mails today!! and where I DO LOVE THE GREAT LEADS!!! I hate having to guess at what you are trying to point out... could you (ALL) please be just a little descriptive??? PLEASE :) Thank you, Timothy... >Checkout the article in Wired magazine >http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/21641.htmlTim > >( tv@juno.com ) > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 23:17:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA08700; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:17:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:17:34 -0700 Message-ID: <37D9F488.B9CC9BE@telusplanet.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:19:52 -0700 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: dpnichols@iswt.com, powerfd@gte.net, Serwitz@aol.com, rachelhome@bigfoot.com, michael romack , richarda@icx.net, "Dennis C. Lee" , dawnames@hotmail.com, Ed Wall , johnhoffman@webtv.net, rolfe_hauser@hotmail.com, transnet@teleport.com, trknute@earthlink.net, werosser@hotmail.com, jham@iahf.com Subject: Re: NEUROPHONE WANTED: Some thoughts... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZGtQo3.0.r72.zFVst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11916 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, thanks for the great reply, I havent read the posts you mentioned but plan on checking them out. Its funny, I had many of the same thouhts regarding remote NP broadcasting and reception (see my posts on this on Keelynet). Do you have any more info on the UV laser device? Cheers! :) Don UNIR2B1@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 99-09-10 06:14:52 EDT, you write: > > > > >anyone know where I can get a second hand or low cost one? > > > > > > Hi, Don! > > People's Radio Network (PRN) used to sell them--800-888-9999; if not, Chuck > Harder himself may know. He's on short-wave now--his sales dept. # is > 888-622-2676. > > Did you ever investigate the posts re: "phasers on stun"? Real money has > evidently been invested in a device that employs a UV laser to ionize an air > channel through which a stun gun voltage can conduct! There's also a type of > stun gun called the Pulse Wave Myotron which uses a frequency that's > especially disruptive to the brain, rather than raw, high voltage. The > website says that if you touch your assailant for a full second or more, "he > may even forget why he attacked you in the first place". > > Suppose you modulated the Myotron output over the UV laser from a safe > distance, thereby 'blanking' the adversaries mind, then apply the Neorophone > signal to the channel. With a mic plugged into the Neurophone preamp, you > could implant thoughts from your lips directly into his perception. Can the > Neurophone can access the optical nerves, too?--you could communicate in > multimedia. > > I've heard of cyber-type learning devices that the alter mental state without > lingual suggestion, only combinations of light & sound. Could this > methodology be used to create a type of telepathy that transcends all > language barriers? Should the internet be accessed with Neurophones rather > than computer monitors? Surely, words are only a type of encoding of > thoughts already formed in some raw form that exists only *within* individual > brains; could that pre-linguistic symbology not be directly transmitted via > Neurophone link? > > --Russ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 23:39:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA13391; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:39:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:39:12 -0700 Message-ID: <37D9F9A1.7D00AFB3@telusplanet.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:41:37 -0700 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: FELIX - Re: NEUROPHONE WANTED References: <000a01befba5$472f2440$acdb82d1@felis-catus> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_IRQ91.0.8H3.GaVst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11917 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Felis! Really enjoyed reading your fascinating post! > What are you wanting to do with this? Mostly experiment... the electronic telepathy aspect intrigues me as well asthe accelerated learning potential. > What are your academic/technical qualifications-are you competent to build > this device? Well currently they certainly aren't of the type / calibre that you obviously possess in your field.I'm a professional computer guy with amateur limited exposure to hobby alt sci tinkering. I've been following stuff on Flanagan for about 3 or four years and am intrigued about the potential of the NP device. At this point in time I likely couldnt put this device together fast or well with out help from friends. But it would be great to try. > If you are a scholar&a gentleman, I would perchance make a copy of this > material-including the military > study-available to you for duplication&binding cost at Kinko's copies + > postage. Let me know more about yourself and your plans and perchance I will > share this material with you. Well I'm not sure how any one could truly and humbly call oneself either a scholar or gentleman, but I can sayI have chronic delusions of being both but then I also delude myself into thinking at times I'm also an ignorant foolish jerk. It depends on the day, my mood and whether I've had a coffee or not, etc... My plans, are to try to learn as much as I can about this technology so that I can benefit myself and others if at all possible, plus the device turns me on, I think its funky. As far as compensating you for materials goes, I'm more than happy to do so and I may have info on other matters that you might enjoy as a trade as well. If so just send me a post direct off the list. cheers, Don > > > felis catus a.k.a. gw tilga, felis@frontiernet.net > -----Original Message----- > From: D Adams > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Date: Friday, September 10, 1999 6:15 AM > Subject: NEUROPHONE WANTED > > >anyone know where I can get a second hand or low cost one? > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 00:30:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA21471; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:30:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:30:42 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 2 (High) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: MFVC design ? Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:37:46 -0400 Message-ID: <19990911073746859.AAA90@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"LwXOX.0.KF5.YKWst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11918 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stephan wrote: >Why is Nu-Energy Systems at all spending so much time >on MikroWatt TMB, if you can scale up MFVC in the MilliWatts range or >even more >or if your claim is valid, that you had a self running BIPEG or ECAT ?? I kind of agree with your sentiment, Stephan, but if they can get the same output with foils instead of plates, and can stack them into a solid, non-stop, energy producing block, then this is a worthwhile endeavor. The homemade solar cells, for example, are something that, I think, are only good for educational purposes, just because you have to have a very large, two dimensional array of them to get any usable amount of power. In that regard, they just are not practical for most situations. A three dimensional stack of pressurized foils or thin films would be very economical and practical, though, if it can be shown that this is possible. In fact, I would consider it something of a breakthough. If the optimum material combination and configuration can be found by home experimenters, then almost any child old enough to safely handle a soldering iron could make these things at home. They would be very easy to mass produce by any small manufacturing outfit as well. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 00:59:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA27655; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:59:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:59:36 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:59:31 -1000 Subject: Re: Amin cycle device in Wired From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909110359291.SM00137@[192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"m1d1s.0.0m6.elWst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11919 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Timothy Chill, ok? Just a typo in the URL. Did you ever see a URL with the suffix ".htmlTim"? Nevermind. Here it is clean: http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/21641.html - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 01:46:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA02679; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 01:46:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 01:46:40 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <20a707ab.250b70c8@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:46:00 EDT Subject: The PFT Motor mk2, an enhanced High Speed version To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 166 Resent-Message-ID: <"oTrT42.0.mf.mRXst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11920 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear All, Today (09-11-99) I have updated my web site : The PFT Motor mk2 uses two asymmetrical capacitors for generating a continuous rotation of the rotor at high speed. The rotor is composed of a dielectric ( a common plastic ) cylinder with an aluminum sheet fixed in the inner surface, this is the rotating armature of the cylinder capacitor. Two aluminum cylinders ( length: 115mm, diam.: 65mm ) have been used as the fixed armature of the capacitor. The measured capacitance is about 14pF. One aluminum cylinder has been connected to +28kV DC and the other to the ground (OV). With the rotor blocked, the leakage current was only 1uA, so the coronna effect was insignificant and this shows clearly that this motor is not a coronna motor. The PFT Motor mk2 turns at high speed : 2770 RPM with only 99uA. The PFT Motor mk2 has no brushes and it can run for a long time. Experimental setup: The PFT motor mk2 has been tested successfully powered with an electronic High Voltage DC generator, the current has been measured with a digital multimeter and the turn speed with an optical tachometer. The motor doesn't start itself, a gently push is required for inducing a rotational asymmetry in the E-Field and thus a continuous asymmetrical S-Flow : Spinning of asymmetrical E-fields is the main key of this motor You will find all diagrams, pictures and videos at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/pftm2.htm Best Regards and Good week-end, Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 02:44:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA09812; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:44:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:44:37 -0700 Message-ID: <37DA2485.C8943A27@harti.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:44:37 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Has Nu-Energy Systems pulled their web site ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DHxN-3.0.DP2.5IYst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11921 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, what has happened ? Why did they pull the plug ? http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/ just comes the empty directory... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 02:53:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA10665; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:53:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:53:27 -0700 Message-ID: <37DA268E.22DB08D@harti.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:53:18 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hamdi ucar , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: Is this the engine of the 21st century ? X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <37D8EFF5.2DA4284F@harti.com> <37D9609F.B7874CEE@harti.com> <37D9631C.E8E598DB@verisoft.com.tr> <37D96F62.9CD5745D@harti.com> <37D98435.66CEDEDA@verisoft.com.tr> <37D98719.DA94C6BC@harti.com> <37D98CE0.F68F1900 Status: O X-Status: @verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"j8axy1.0.Uc2.MQYst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11922 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com hamdi ucar wrote: > > I had cookies disabled on my browser, and it was the cause of the error. Now it worked. > Unfortunately I could not find in technical documentation measurements etc. > Everything here is theoretical. It is possible to pass from wormhole and go >to an other universe if theoretically considered. >Would you please give an exact link to read the experimental results? Hi Hamdi, here are the right links: http://www.entropysystems.com/Testing.htm http://www.entropysystems.com/Product.htm http://www.entropysystems.com/Questions.htm > > Thank you, hamdi ucar > > > hamdi ucar schrieb: > > > > > > I had already registered me but when tried to access to documents, a page as > > > > > > "Entropy Systems Inc. > > > Technical Information > > > Good evening > > > > > > ADODB.Field error '80020009' > > > > > > Either BOF or EOF is True, or the current record has been deleted; the operation requested by the application requires a current record. > > > > > > /User/UserHome.asp, line 44 " > > > > > > is displayed. No luck. > > > > > > Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > > > > > > hamdi ucar schrieb: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Hamdi, > > > > > > > > there is much more on the site > > > > and I have already seen measurement results > > > > in their technical documentation area. > > > > > > > > You need to get a password and access also all > > > > PDF files ! > > > > > > > > Very interesting device. > > > > > > > [snip] > > > > > > Regards, hamdi ucar > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 06:19:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA09986; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:19:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:19:44 -0700 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: What we've all been looking for ??? Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:53:15 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: <7Cl23UQy8oKa092yn@csonline.net> References: <19990910.191147.-491615.2.tv@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <19990910.191147.-491615.2.tv@juno.com> Lines: 70 X-Newsreader: VSoup v1.2.9.37Beta [95/NT] Resent-Message-ID: <"TPvLR1.0.xR2.lRbst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11923 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Entropy systems is located in Youngstown, Ohio. Is there >somebody near this company that could go see if this thing >is really the self sustaining free energy device they claim? About five years ago Amin hung out on the BBS that I ran. He liked all of the Keelynet files that I had posted there. About three years ago he gave me, and a couple of other people, a copy of his book "Entropy: The Key To Unlimited Resources", with a subtitle of "Life*Gravitation*Space*Time*Information*World Resources*". ISBN 0-9643037-0-1, the one and only Printing was in Sept 1994. I asked him if the book was still available and he said no, and he had not made up his mind about reprinting it. Send me a message if you are interested and I'll accumulate a count and maybe that will help tip the balance in the favor of reprinting. PLEASE DO NOT SENT THE "I WANT THE BOOK MESSAGES" to THE LIST ADDRESS, send them to my EMAIL. It always annoys me when others do that, so I don't want to be the cause of it happening. My parents still live close to Youngstown, and just a bit more than a hour drive from me. Any way I went over and saw his "Air Conditioner" at the time. It was just that, it made the air cold, it was powered by a small electric fan, kind of like the ones in PCs today. He said that it would reduce the ambient are temp. by 30', but I don't recall if it was 'F or 'C, it was probably 'C. >From reading his book before arriving there it was clear that he had a motor in mind and I explicitly asked him about what the book was implying. His rely exact was: "With out a prototype in hand it is meaningless", and he didn't wish to pursue the matter further. Now it seems he has one in hand. He has invited me to the news conference that is tentatively scheduled for Sept. 22 which I plan on attending. Only down side I see is both my father and mother-in-law are in ill health, one of them will do some thing really annoying like kick the bucket that day so I can go. :-( Amin asked those few years ago that I post some of the info from his book on my web site since he didn't have one till the last month or two. As far as I know I still have permission to repost things from the book, I'll see if I can dig out some more of the 'meat' in there, and put on my web site, or on http://www.oilcity.org/research/ . Take a look at that site any way there are some links to hand Books Thermodynamics from the Department Of Energy listed there. http://www.biogate.com/bapddock/ has some of the older info. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/ Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. http://www.uCOS-II.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 07:02:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA19468; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:01:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:01:56 -0700 From: UNIR2B1@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:00:56 EDT Subject: 3 VIRUSES: "Win A Holiday", "California", "(OPEN: VERY COOL!:)" To: elebra@hotmail.com (Mattias) CC: Eliria99@aol.com, ewall@infinite-energy.com (Ed Wall), FRANKARTINVENT@webtv.net (FRANK HOLMQUIST), freenrg-l@eskimo.com, gdraper@bellsouth.net, goldbug@worldaccessnet.com, hamdix@verisoft.com.tr (hamdi ucar), heatherti@mindspring.com (Heather and Andrew Tinley), Henry.Scudder@West.Boeing.com.Scudder, Henry.J@aol.com, herman@antioch-college.edu (John Schnurer), homer@abac.com (John H.St.John), housed@indiana.edu (David House), intelife@pop.globaldialog.com (JADE), InTheShadows@onelist.com, jdo@ucalgary.ca (Jorg D. Ostrowski), jham@iahf.com, jkinsley@beyond-the-illusion.com, johnhoffman@webtv.net, JohnHunter@hotmail.com (John Hunter), julier@maxwell.ucsc.edu (Julie Reiner), Kedo@phnx.uswest.net (Kelly Larsen), kmohler@frii.com (Karen Mohler), lightspring@jps.net (Thomas Spellman), lkvp@mail.awod.com, manna@blazenet.net (Terri Schoolden), mark3@mindspring.com, markland@rockisland.com, mccloud@listservice.net (Webmaster-Terry/Mccloud) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"W1eKs3.0.0m4.K3cst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11924 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: DO NOT OPEN; IMMEDIATELY DELETE: "(OPEN: VERY COOL!:)" "Win A Holiday" email with a file called "California" ============================ This warning comes from Neil Ferrick, Compaq Computer Corp. Subject: Please read 3 virus warnings!!!!! If you receive the email with a file called 'California', do not open the delete it right away. The file contains WOBBLER virus. This information was announced yesterday morning from IBM. AOL states that this is a very dangerous virus, much worse than "Melissa", and that there is NO remedy for it at this time. Some very sick individual has succeeded in using the reformat function from Norton Utilities causing it to completely erase all documents on the hard drive. It has been designed to work with Netscape Navigator and Microsoft Internet Explorer. It destroys Macintosh and IBM compatible computers. This is a new, very malicious virus and not many know about it. Chris Horstman ================================= Subject: Fw: DO NOT DELETE!!! READ !!!!!!!!!!! 1. This is VERY SERIOUS!! Please forward to everyone you know...they will be grateful. There is a virus out now being sent to people via email..it is called the A.I.D.S. VIRUS. It will destroy your memory, sound card and speakers, your drive and it will infect your mouse or pointing devices as well as your keyboards making it so that you can't type and it will not register on the screen. It self terminates only after it eats 5MB of hard drive space & will delete all programs. It will come via E- mail called "(OPEN: VERY COOL!:)". DELETE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!immediately!! It will basically render your computer useless. PASS IT ON QUICKLY & TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE!! 2.Very Urgent Must Read Please - If you receive an e-mail titled "Win A Holiday" DO NOT open it . It will erase everything on your hard drive. Forward this letter out to as many people as you can. This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know about it. This information was announced yesterday morning from Microsoft. Thank You, Neil Ferrick Compaq Computer Corporation From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 08:26:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA12436; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:26:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:26:33 -0700 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:24:28 -0700 Subject: Amin cycle not self sustaining :-( Message-ID: <19990911.072435.-480813.1.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,14-19 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Tim Vaughn Resent-Message-ID: <"vpBYf.0.823.eIdst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11925 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little is right. This quote from the Entropy web page say it all.... " Our objective is to increase the conversion of heat to work and simultaneously, reduce the friction power. The crossover, point where the friction power is equal to or less than the heat converted to power is the point where net heat conversion to power can be attained. When heat converted to power exceeds the friction power the difference could be used for producing electricity or for any other applications which require a prime mover. We have made steady progress in increasing the heat to work conversion from 4 watts to 76 watts and reducing the friction from 870 watts to 394 watts. We urge the scientific community to thoroughly and scientifically review and analyze every aspect of the Amin Cycle, its analysis, observations and applications before making any judgements. " Sorry. I got too excited, too soon. Tim ( tv@juno.com ) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 13:35:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA28271; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:35:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:35:08 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:34:57 -1000 Subject: Re: The PFT Motor mk2, an enhanced High Speed version From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909111635322.SM00137@[192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"lcQ5s1.0.Sv6.wphst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11926 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jean-Louis - Seems like any minute now you're going to invent a *real* UFO motor. I have a question about the setup. When the motor revs up to speed, do you see any back-torque on the cans? Is their foam block support mounting flexible enough to allow a small shift as the forces increase? It might be possible to mount one cylinder on a shaft so that it could turn a few degrees against a small resistance while keeping the same air gap to the rotor. Also, seeing that device makes me want to mentally try to rearrange the rotating dielectric so that the Poynting flow is all in one linear direction for thrust like your Poynting thruster does. Cam't quite wrap my mind around the geometry required for that, though. Any ideas? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 15:55:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA21411; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:54:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:54:45 -0700 Message-ID: <37DADDF7.B04BCA4D@microtec.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:55:51 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: PHASER ON STUN WANTED References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aFc4m.0.SE5.rsjst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11927 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Russ, This is too cool, where may I find more info about the PHASER STUNNER and the neurophone. This looks like an arcade game I played, it's called: Plasma Sword. This is a futuristic battle between robots and humans, Killer Instinct style. In it, the oposants fight not only with their fists but with plasma. They shoot a plasma ray and the opposant is hit. It's very similar to ionising a conductive channel in the air. UNIR2B1@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 99-09-10 06:14:52 EDT, you write: > > > > >anyone know where I can get a second hand or low cost one? > > > > > > Hi, Don! > > People's Radio Network (PRN) used to sell them--800-888-9999; if not, Chuck > Harder himself may know. He's on short-wave now--his sales dept. # is > 888-622-2676. > > Did you ever investigate the posts re: "phasers on stun"? Real money has > evidently been invested in a device that employs a UV laser to ionize an air > channel through which a stun gun voltage can conduct! There's also a type of > stun gun called the Pulse Wave Myotron which uses a frequency that's > especially disruptive to the brain, rather than raw, high voltage. The > website says that if you touch your assailant for a full second or more, "he > may even forget why he attacked you in the first place". > > Suppose you modulated the Myotron output over the UV laser from a safe > distance, thereby 'blanking' the adversaries mind, then apply the Neorophone > signal to the channel. With a mic plugged into the Neurophone preamp, you > could implant thoughts from your lips directly into his perception. Can the > Neurophone can access the optical nerves, too?--you could communicate in > multimedia. > > I've heard of cyber-type learning devices that the alter mental state without > lingual suggestion, only combinations of light & sound. Could this > methodology be used to create a type of telepathy that transcends all > language barriers? Should the internet be accessed with Neurophones rather > than computer monitors? Surely, words are only a type of encoding of > thoughts already formed in some raw form that exists only *within* individual > brains; could that pre-linguistic symbology not be directly transmitted via > Neurophone link? > > --Russ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 16:02:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA23390; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:01:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:01:57 -0700 Message-ID: <37DADFA6.8B71B461@microtec.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:03:02 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: FELIX - Re: NEUROPHONE WANTED References: <000a01befba5$472f2440$acdb82d1@felis-catus> <37D9F9A1.7D00AFB3@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7Bu0h1.0.Jj5.azjst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11928 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If we want things to change fast we'll have to fight for it. If we want to change the way school is operated, we'll have to form companies and sell education through the use of such technologies, either by internet or in a modern class room, the days of severe school teachers, boring english, history and philosophy classes are over. With this technology we will choose what we want to know and we'll know it fast and efficiently. D Adams wrote: > Hi Felis! > > Really enjoyed reading your fascinating post! > > > What are you wanting to do with this? > > Mostly experiment... the electronic telepathy aspect intrigues me as well asthe > accelerated learning potential. > > > What are your academic/technical qualifications-are you competent to build > > this device? > > Well currently they certainly aren't of the type / calibre that you obviously > possess in your field.I'm a professional computer guy with amateur limited > exposure to hobby alt sci tinkering. > I've been following stuff on Flanagan for about 3 or four years and am intrigued > about the potential > of the NP device. At this point in time I likely couldnt put this device > together fast or well with out > help from friends. But it would be great to try. > > > If you are a scholar&a gentleman, I would perchance make a copy of this > > material-including the military > > study-available to you for duplication&binding cost at Kinko's copies + > > postage. Let me know more about yourself and your plans and perchance I will > > share this material with you. > > Well I'm not sure how any one could truly and humbly call oneself either a > scholar or gentleman, but I can sayI have chronic delusions of being both but > then I also delude myself into thinking at times I'm also an ignorant > foolish jerk. It depends on the day, my mood and whether I've had a coffee or > not, etc... > > My plans, are to try to learn as much as I can about this technology so that I > can benefit myself and others > if at all possible, plus the device turns me on, I think its funky. > > As far as compensating you for materials goes, I'm more than happy to do so and > I may have info on other > matters that you might enjoy as a trade as well. If so just send me a post > direct off the list. > > cheers, > > Don > > > > > > > felis catus a.k.a. gw tilga, felis@frontiernet.net > > -----Original Message----- > > From: D Adams > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Date: Friday, September 10, 1999 6:15 AM > > Subject: NEUROPHONE WANTED > > > > >anyone know where I can get a second hand or low cost one? > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 17:40:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA15858; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:40:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:40:06 -0700 Message-ID: <37DAF62F.23BCADF6@bway.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:39:11 -0400 From: Caigan Reply-To: believer@telepath.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-DIAL (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Phasers: Beam Weapon Patent Granted Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vAHTt2.0.ht3.bPlst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11929 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------- NOTE: Today's episode of National Public Radio's "Science Friday" featured an interview with Eric Herr, whose company, HSV Technologies of San Diego, CA, has patented the first phaser weapon. Lacking about $200,000 of development capital, they do not have a working prototype at this time of a Star Trek-style hand-held phaser, but that can't be far off in the future. I taped the interview with Mr. Herr and will be posting the transcript later this afternoon. It was ... fascinating. --------------------- Source: San Diego Source http://www.sddt.com/files/library/98/04/20/tbz.html New Laser Puts More Authority Behind The Command, "Freeze!" By CHRISTINA JOHNSON - johnson@sddt.com San Diego Daily Transcript April 20, 1998 For decades, sci-fi enthusiasts have imagined weapons that use pulses of light to zap, stun, vaporize, knock out or knock down -- without necessarily killing. In what may be the next wave in nonlethal weaponry, San Diego inventor Eric Herr has patented a device he calls a laser tetanizer, a painless alternative to tasers that police also could use from helicopters to stop fleeing cars. Stun guns -- or tasers -- routinely are carried by law enforcement agents. Los Angeles police used a stun gun against Rodney King. These weapons work by firing two small darts, each of which are connected to the gun by thin conductive wires. On contact, an electric charge passes, immobilizing the person by causing painful muscle contractions. Passive versions of this type of stun gun are being applied to halt fleeing automobiles. At the U.S.-Mexico border, for instance, officials are in the process of laying conductive strips across highway crossings. These strips when charged stop passing cars by short-circuiting the cars' electronics. Because electronic circuitry is highly sensitive to tiny amounts of voltage, the charged strips are harmless to pedestrians and drivers. Herr's invention, however, promises to make this road application more versatile. His laser tetanizer offers mobile use from greater distances for immobilizing vehicles -- and no pain when used to "freeze" a person. The former English major-turned-techie was inspired by an episode of Star Trek. He likens the gun to playing a game of freeze tag. When you are hit with the laser beam your body becomes frozen in the position it was in when hit, he explained. The "tag" is painless, unlike the shock from a taser. Partly intrigued by the technical and partly by the humanitarian aspect, Herr set to the task of computing the specific physical parameters necessary to construct the gun. At the time more than 20 years ago, his calculations were met with skepticism -- near ridicule. But, he said, "I did my research and learned there certainly was a way. Anesthesiologists have been using tetanizers since the '40s." In the inverse problem, anesthesiologists use a tetanizing current to determine whether a patient has been properly anaesthetized. Anesthesia works by relaxing a person's muscles. If a patient's muscles contract when tetanized, the patient can feel pain, he explained. Unlike tasers, tetanizers send a precisely modulated high-frequency pulse that overloads the body's nerve channels, shorting them out temporarily with no sensation, Herr said. Because of this, "You could stop an elephant" with a voltage on par of having your hand on a static ball. In contrast with standard tasers and tetanizers, laser versions could be used at a distance and could fire multiple "shots" before needing to be reloaded -- perhaps most importantly, the shock is harmless, Herr said. "My philosophy is that people are going to fight," Herr said. "If you want to do a good thing for humanity, find a way they can fight without killing each other...it is much more humane to immobilize a person and then put handcuffs on them than to shoot them with a bullet." The greatest challenge in making Herr's tetanizer is in creating the charge-carrying laser beam. "Basically what we are trying to do is move away from the need to use wires to conduct electricity," Herr said, and instead carry a charge in an intense beam of ultraviolet light. Neil Dilley, a physicist at the University of California, San Diego, who helped direct recent experiments with Herr, explained: "They first needed to show the laser could ionize air." Normally air is very insulated and will not support an electrical current. Lightning happens only when the air has been ionized. An electric current is the flow of free electrons. When air is ionized, electrons are separated from their parent molecules and free to organize as an electric current. Once Herr and Richard Vorce, president of HSV Technologies Inc., realized they could ionize air, they needed to show that the ionized channel of air would extend the distance traveled by the electric current, Dilley said. "There is something called a streamer that comes before a lightening bolt." Like scouts, streamers find the channels where the air has been ionized, giving a forewarning of the path the bolt will take. In effect, they are trying to create something these streamers will see, he said. "If the streamers can see, we know the electricity will follow in its path." HSV Technologies Inc. is a three-man, San Diego-based company founded by Herr. In the experiments, scientists ionized air and sent charges along a path only inches long. But Vorce said they have shown that the general principle is solid. "We can treat ionized air as a wire," Vorce said. "We can guide it. We can direct it and we can conduct it." Basically, "we can create a wire wherever the laser is pointed," Herr said. Their problem is how to project the beam 100 meters -- their target distance -- and also how to miniaturize the technology down to the size of a flashlight. Right now the laser apparatus is the size of a small refrigerator. Another problem is in creating a closed circuit. To do this, scientists would need to fire two beams of light -- one sending electrons toward the target the other returning electrons back to the gun. The double beam structure is the same principle as the double-darted stun gun and as the two-pronged outlet for all home appliances. "You have to create a closed circuit," Herr said. Because of these limitations, Vorce said the laser's first application might be as a vehicle disabling device. It would be easy to connect the laser to a police car battery, mount the laser on the roof and keep the guts of the laser in the trunk, he said. Like the conductive strips, a charged beam of light could dismantle all electrical processes, giving cops a safe way to stop fleeing cars. Not all applications are oriented toward defense or law enforcement. Scientists are working on developing mobile lasers that could trigger and then guide artificial lightning bolts away from urban centers during intense storms, Dilley added. Herr's goal is to demonstrate the technology at 50 feet and then attract a buyer who could develop and market the product. Companies such as SAIC, Maxwell Technologies and Lockheed Martin are all potential buyers. The federal government also has expressed interest in high-tech law enforcement, Vorce said. What's down the line 20 years from now? Herr believes it is possible to predict earthquakes two hours in advance and that there is a way to make a noise-filled room sound quiet. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 17:40:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA15971; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:40:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:40:39 -0700 Message-ID: <37DAF658.3DECD829@bway.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:39:52 -0400 From: Caigan Reply-To: believer@telepath.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-DIAL (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Phasers: Transcript with Inventor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lbaf5.0.Sv3.6Qlst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11930 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Source: National Public Radio's "Talk of the Nation: Science Friday" Broadcast over: KGOU/KROU in Norman, Oklahoma & Harrah, Oklahoma 106.3 and 105.7 FM Friday, July 24, 1998 2:00 - 3:00 p.m. central standard time IRA FLAYTO (host): I want to bring on someone else now who wrote me a letter. He comes from HSV Technologies in San Diego, and he wrote me a letter. I won't read the whole letter to you, just the relevant part. It says, "Dear Mr. Flayto..." It talks about the "Star Trek" television series, and he talks about the phaser weapon. And he says, "It is now possible to manufacture a completely non-lethal beam weapon to supplement and perhaps replace firearms." And he sent me his patent. He has patented a phaser weapon, and his name is Eric Herr, and he is the inventor and Vice President of HSV Technologies in San Diego. He is on the phone now from San Diego. Welcome to the program. ERIC HERR: Thank you for having me on. FLAYTO: Give us a thumbnail sketch for folks who don't know. Describe this new device you have. HERR: First of all, I have to say we don't have a working prototype because such would be beyond our means at about $200,000. However we have conducted some very successful tests at a local university. The phaser weapon uses what is known as tetany, or tetanization, to immobilize a person. This is the stimulation of muscle tissue by a very weak electric current. It is, in fact, a near-exact replication of the normal neural pulse that contracts muscles and is imperceptible. It cannot be felt... unlike the taser or a stun gun pulse. FLAYTO: So it's a real beam that you shoot out with this weapon? HERR: That's right. FLAYTO: And it hits you in some muscle somewhere and causes you to freeze? HERR: That's correct. FLAYTO: And stuns you? HERR: That's right. FLAYTO: And is it harmful... the beam itself, is it harmful if it would hit you in the eye or anything like that? HERR: No, not at all. Not at all. FLAYTO: So it's basically what... an ultraviolet laser? HERR: That's correct. The ultraviolet beam, specifically at 193 nanometers, ionizes molecular oxygen in the air, creates a wire, as it were, through the air to conduct this current. The current is very weak. It's only 20 milliamps. FLAYTO: And how big a device is this now/ HERR: Right now, the laser that would be used is about the size of a small suitcase or typewriter case. FLAYTO: It's not this little hand-held device. HERR: No, not yet. But we're working on that. FLAYTO: Has anybody, law enforcement people, shown any interest in it? HERR: Very, very much. Everyone is interested in it. Especially... there is a federal bureau called OLETC - the Office of Law Enforcement Technology Commercialization - which has shown great interest. FLAYTO: And does it have adjustable setting, you know, for stun... HERR: That's right. FLAYTO: ...kill, whatever... that sort of things on it? HERR: Well, I didn't invent this to do harm to people. It could be lethal if one increased the current about 200 times and held it on the person's chest for five or ten minutes. But otherwise, no, it is quite harmless. FLAYTO: Let me bring on my other guest. Jeff Greenwald, did you want to ask a question? JEFF GREENWALD: I just wanted to make the point that if it can be lethal, eventually it will be lethal. Just that cheery optimistic note about the weapon. HERR: Well, you see, it would be much more economical just to shoot a person with an ordinary bullet. This device... the cheapest laser available now is about $35,000. Not too many people can afford that. FLAYTO: Lawrence Kraus? LAWRENCE KRAUS: In one sense, things like the phaser, of course, in "Star Trek" are realistic because particle beam weapons of one sort or another - whether it be light photons, ultraviolet, X-rays or actual particle beams - have been discussed and I'm sure will be used. The thing that is sort of unrealistic with the phaser, of course, is the fact that you could turn it not just to "stun" but sometimes to "vaporize," depending upon the episode. And there the energetics are such that I once calculates that if you wanted to vaporize the average human being, the energy released would be something like a 1,100 megaton nuclear weapon explosion. So it wouldn't be what we would call environmentally safe right now. FLAYTO: But Eric, you could stop a car with this or something? HERR: By using a stronger current, a single, high-amperage pulse, yes. There is a Swedish company that makes a harpoon-like device with two wires attached to conduct a strong current to the body of a fleeing car, and this current burns out the ICs in the car's printed circuit boards. FLAYTO: All the computer chips in there. Eric, where do you stand with getting this as a practical weapon or as a practical stun gun or something? HERR: We've had some very favorable inquiries from two local companies. We're also working with a major laser manufacturer. We met with them just the other day here in San Diego with the SBIE Convention. They're going to be running some tests on our device in Fort Lauderdale. FLAYTO: How do you test it? HERR: By conducting a current through the ionized air that the beam creates within it. FLAYTO: Do you have to test it out on animals to see if they get stunned? HERR: Well, as a matter of fact, I tested, some years ago, a medical tetanizing device on myself. It was very effective. I could not move my arm and I could not feel anything at all. FLAYTO: Wow! I hate it when that happens! What do you say to people who think if this falls into the wrong hands it becomes a weapon of mass destruction? You could spray a crowd with a laser beam or something like that. HERR: No, that wouldn't happen. They would just be temporarily paralyzed and when the beam was off of them for even a second or two they would become quite normal again. FLAYTO: Eric Herr, thank you for joining us this hour. HERR: Thank you. FLAYTO: And we'll be very interested in seeing what happens. HERR: Thank you. FLAYTO: Let me just remind everybody that Eric Herr is an inventor and Vice President of HSV Technologies in San Diego, California; and my other guests are Lawrence Kraus, author of "The Physics of Star-Trek," and "Beyond Star-Trek: Physics from Alien Invasions to the End of Time;" and Jeff Greenwald, author of "Future Perfect: How Star-Trek Conquered Planet Earth" and a contributor to "Wired" magazine. [END] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 17:41:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA16056; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:40:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:40:47 -0700 Message-ID: <37DAF660.70CBE559@bway.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:40:00 -0400 From: Caigan Reply-To: believer@telepath.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-DIAL (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Phasers: Transcript with Inventor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bn5e23.0.nw3.FQlst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11931 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Source: National Public Radio's "Talk of the Nation: Science Friday" Broadcast over: KGOU/KROU in Norman, Oklahoma & Harrah, Oklahoma 106.3 and 105.7 FM Friday, July 24, 1998 2:00 - 3:00 p.m. central standard time IRA FLAYTO (host): I want to bring on someone else now who wrote me a letter. He comes from HSV Technologies in San Diego, and he wrote me a letter. I won't read the whole letter to you, just the relevant part. It says, "Dear Mr. Flayto..." It talks about the "Star Trek" television series, and he talks about the phaser weapon. And he says, "It is now possible to manufacture a completely non-lethal beam weapon to supplement and perhaps replace firearms." And he sent me his patent. He has patented a phaser weapon, and his name is Eric Herr, and he is the inventor and Vice President of HSV Technologies in San Diego. He is on the phone now from San Diego. Welcome to the program. ERIC HERR: Thank you for having me on. FLAYTO: Give us a thumbnail sketch for folks who don't know. Describe this new device you have. HERR: First of all, I have to say we don't have a working prototype because such would be beyond our means at about $200,000. However we have conducted some very successful tests at a local university. The phaser weapon uses what is known as tetany, or tetanization, to immobilize a person. This is the stimulation of muscle tissue by a very weak electric current. It is, in fact, a near-exact replication of the normal neural pulse that contracts muscles and is imperceptible. It cannot be felt... unlike the taser or a stun gun pulse. FLAYTO: So it's a real beam that you shoot out with this weapon? HERR: That's right. FLAYTO: And it hits you in some muscle somewhere and causes you to freeze? HERR: That's correct. FLAYTO: And stuns you? HERR: That's right. FLAYTO: And is it harmful... the beam itself, is it harmful if it would hit you in the eye or anything like that? HERR: No, not at all. Not at all. FLAYTO: So it's basically what... an ultraviolet laser? HERR: That's correct. The ultraviolet beam, specifically at 193 nanometers, ionizes molecular oxygen in the air, creates a wire, as it were, through the air to conduct this current. The current is very weak. It's only 20 milliamps. FLAYTO: And how big a device is this now/ HERR: Right now, the laser that would be used is about the size of a small suitcase or typewriter case. FLAYTO: It's not this little hand-held device. HERR: No, not yet. But we're working on that. FLAYTO: Has anybody, law enforcement people, shown any interest in it? HERR: Very, very much. Everyone is interested in it. Especially... there is a federal bureau called OLETC - the Office of Law Enforcement Technology Commercialization - which has shown great interest. FLAYTO: And does it have adjustable setting, you know, for stun... HERR: That's right. FLAYTO: ...kill, whatever... that sort of things on it? HERR: Well, I didn't invent this to do harm to people. It could be lethal if one increased the current about 200 times and held it on the person's chest for five or ten minutes. But otherwise, no, it is quite harmless. FLAYTO: Let me bring on my other guest. Jeff Greenwald, did you want to ask a question? JEFF GREENWALD: I just wanted to make the point that if it can be lethal, eventually it will be lethal. Just that cheery optimistic note about the weapon. HERR: Well, you see, it would be much more economical just to shoot a person with an ordinary bullet. This device... the cheapest laser available now is about $35,000. Not too many people can afford that. FLAYTO: Lawrence Kraus? LAWRENCE KRAUS: In one sense, things like the phaser, of course, in "Star Trek" are realistic because particle beam weapons of one sort or another - whether it be light photons, ultraviolet, X-rays or actual particle beams - have been discussed and I'm sure will be used. The thing that is sort of unrealistic with the phaser, of course, is the fact that you could turn it not just to "stun" but sometimes to "vaporize," depending upon the episode. And there the energetics are such that I once calculates that if you wanted to vaporize the average human being, the energy released would be something like a 1,100 megaton nuclear weapon explosion. So it wouldn't be what we would call environmentally safe right now. FLAYTO: But Eric, you could stop a car with this or something? HERR: By using a stronger current, a single, high-amperage pulse, yes. There is a Swedish company that makes a harpoon-like device with two wires attached to conduct a strong current to the body of a fleeing car, and this current burns out the ICs in the car's printed circuit boards. FLAYTO: All the computer chips in there. Eric, where do you stand with getting this as a practical weapon or as a practical stun gun or something? HERR: We've had some very favorable inquiries from two local companies. We're also working with a major laser manufacturer. We met with them just the other day here in San Diego with the SBIE Convention. They're going to be running some tests on our device in Fort Lauderdale. FLAYTO: How do you test it? HERR: By conducting a current through the ionized air that the beam creates within it. FLAYTO: Do you have to test it out on animals to see if they get stunned? HERR: Well, as a matter of fact, I tested, some years ago, a medical tetanizing device on myself. It was very effective. I could not move my arm and I could not feel anything at all. FLAYTO: Wow! I hate it when that happens! What do you say to people who think if this falls into the wrong hands it becomes a weapon of mass destruction? You could spray a crowd with a laser beam or something like that. HERR: No, that wouldn't happen. They would just be temporarily paralyzed and when the beam was off of them for even a second or two they would become quite normal again. FLAYTO: Eric Herr, thank you for joining us this hour. HERR: Thank you. FLAYTO: And we'll be very interested in seeing what happens. HERR: Thank you. FLAYTO: Let me just remind everybody that Eric Herr is an inventor and Vice President of HSV Technologies in San Diego, California; and my other guests are Lawrence Kraus, author of "The Physics of Star-Trek," and "Beyond Star-Trek: Physics from Alien Invasions to the End of Time;" and Jeff Greenwald, author of "Future Perfect: How Star-Trek Conquered Planet Earth" and a contributor to "Wired" magazine. [END] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 17:42:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA17592; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:42:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:42:18 -0700 Message-ID: <37DAF6BD.55A3CA25@bway.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:41:33 -0400 From: Caigan Reply-To: Caigan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-DIAL (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Ray gun paralyzes victims remotely References: <199905180022.RAA15140@hub1.san-jose.webnexus.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Md-GJ2.0.jI4.gRlst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11932 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Times (London) http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/99/05/09/stiinnnws02007.html?1902395 Ray Gun freezes victims without causing injury And here's a link to the patent for the gizmo mentioned above: http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=pall&s1=herr&s2=tetanizing&OS=herr+AND+tetanizing&RS=herr+AND+tetanizing --Khem Caigan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 23:17:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA14715; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:16:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:16:49 -0700 From: b1kidd@uswest.net Delivered-To: fixup-freenrg-l@eskimo.com@fixme Message-ID: <37DB454B.3ACC7019@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:16:44 -0700 Reply-To: b1kidd@uswest.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: 3 VIRUSES: "Win A Holiday", "California", "(OPEN: VERY COOL!:)"]] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B8506DF7C8C89D9DF3F3EFEA" Resent-Message-ID: <"QFhNd3.0.qb3.HLqst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11933 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B8506DF7C8C89D9DF3F3EFEA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------B8506DF7C8C89D9DF3F3EFEA Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Delivered-To: b1kidd@mail.sttl.uswest.net Received: (qmail 5214 invoked by uid 0); 11 Sep 1999 22:41:07 -0000 Received: from mail2.uswest.net (204.147.80.18) by sttl3.sttl.uswest.net with SMTP; 11 Sep 1999 22:41:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 7005 invoked by alias); 11 Sep 1999 22:41:06 -0000 Delivered-To: b1kidd@uswest.net Received: (qmail 6987 invoked from network); 11 Sep 1999 22:41:06 -0000 Received: from smtp11.bellglobal.com (204.101.251.53) by mail2.uswest.net with SMTP; 11 Sep 1999 22:41:06 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca (Oshawa-ppp69707.sympatico.ca [216.208.54.8]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA16048; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:44:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37DADA10.E1742A6D@sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:39:12 -0400 From: Ken Prentice X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: b1kidd@uswest.net CC: "Ab1norm@aol.com" , Doug Wilson , "doverla@uswest.net" , Express Temporay Services , "Julio W. Negron,Sr" , "liv777@hotmail.com" , Ray <123giff@mail.unidial.com>, Richard Trembulak , "sooter@netzero.net" Subject: Re: [Fwd: 3 VIRUSES: "Win A Holiday", "California", "(OPEN: VERY COOL!:)"] References: <37DA93A9.3C9FF92E@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Hi Guys.. This is the works of some idiot passing on virus hoaxs.... check out the following url to see for yourself.. even book mark it first before sending out virus alerts.. http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/hoax.html Ken Prentice http://www3.sympatico.ca/prentice b1kidd@uswest.net wrote along with all the rest.... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: 3 VIRUSES: "Win A Holiday", "California", "(OPEN: VERY COOL!:)" > Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:01:57 -0700 > Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:00:56 EDT > From: UNIR2B1@aol.com > Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > To: elebra@hotmail.com (Mattias) > CC: Eliria99@aol.com, ewall@infinite-energy.com (Ed Wall), > FRANKARTINVENT@webtv.net (FRANK HOLMQUIST), freenrg-l@eskimo.com, > gdraper@bellsouth.net, goldbug@worldaccessnet.com, > hamdix@verisoft.com.tr (hamdi ucar), > heatherti@mindspring.com (Heather and Andrew Tinley), > Henry.Scudder@West.Boeing.com.Scudder, Henry.J@aol.com, > herman@antioch-college.edu (John Schnurer), > homer@abac.com (John H.St.John), housed@indiana.edu (David House), > intelife@pop.globaldialog.com (JADE), InTheShadows@onelist.com, > jdo@ucalgary.ca (Jorg D. Ostrowski), jham@iahf.com, > jkinsley@beyond-the-illusion.com, johnhoffman@webtv.net, > JohnHunter@hotmail.com (John Hunter), > julier@maxwell.ucsc.edu (Julie > Reiner), > Kedo@phnx.uswest.net (Kelly Larsen), kmohler@frii.com (Karen > Mohler), > lightspring@jps.net (Thomas Spellman), lkvp@mail.awod.com, > manna@blazenet.net (Terri Schoolden), mark3@mindspring.com, > markland@rockisland.com, > mccloud@listservice.net (Webmaster-Terry/Mccloud) > > DO NOT OPEN; IMMEDIATELY DELETE: > > "(OPEN: VERY COOL!:)" > > "Win A Holiday" > > email with a file called "California" > > ============================ > > This warning comes from Neil Ferrick, Compaq Computer Corp. > > Subject: Please read 3 virus warnings!!!!! > > If you receive the email with a file called 'California', do > not open the delete it right away. The file contains WOBBLER > virus. This information was announced yesterday morning from > IBM. AOL states that this is a very dangerous virus, much worse > than "Melissa", and that there is NO remedy for it at this time. > > Some very sick individual has succeeded in using the > reformat function from Norton Utilities causing it to completely erase all > documents on the hard drive. It has been designed to work with > Netscape Navigator and Microsoft Internet Explorer. It destroys > Macintosh and IBM compatible computers. This is a new, very > malicious virus and not many know about it. > > Chris Horstman > > ================================= > > Subject: Fw: DO NOT DELETE!!! READ !!!!!!!!!!! > > 1. This is VERY SERIOUS!! Please forward to everyone you > know...they will be grateful. There is a virus out now > being sent to people via email..it is called the A.I.D.S. > VIRUS. It will destroy your memory, sound card and > speakers, your drive and it will infect your mouse or > pointing devices as well as your keyboards making it so > that you can't type and it will not register on the > screen. It self terminates only after it eats 5MB of hard > drive space & will delete all programs. It will come via E- > mail called "(OPEN: VERY COOL!:)". > > DELETE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!immediately!! It will basically > render your computer useless. > > PASS IT ON QUICKLY & TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE!! > 2.Very Urgent Must Read Please - If you receive an e-mail > titled "Win A Holiday" DO NOT open it . It will erase > everything on your hard drive. Forward this letter out to > as many people as you can. This is a new, very malicious > virus and not many people know about it. This information > was announced yesterday morning from Microsoft. > > Thank You, > Neil Ferrick > Compaq Computer Corporation > --------------B8506DF7C8C89D9DF3F3EFEA-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 04:38:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA24259; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 04:38:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 04:38:01 -0700 Message-ID: <37DB904B.DCCCE2A@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:36:43 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: current status of my TMB cell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MVHUC3.0.tw5.O2vst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11934 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, My cell is reduced to two Sn plates immersed in water (originally pure? car battery add water) One cell(1) is against the wall of the cup and a separator placed closely to other surface (few mm's). other plate(2) is arbitrary place in the cup. The cell is still producing 42mV potential (for more than 24 hours), but discharge on ampermeter mode of the DVM draining few u amps. polarity is + at the cell 1. I dont know is this an anomaly for electrochemistry. Maybe most important would be my knowledge is insufficient to drive such an experiment correctly involving electro-chemistry. Any comments? Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 06:16:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA03273; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 06:16:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 06:16:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 06:16:29 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Altruism Virus In-Reply-To: <37D52BB1.61609427@ihug.co.nz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"4e81j3.0.2p.mUwst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11935 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, John Berry wrote: > Only one question, who is giving away the free $1000? There is no free $1000. If you are in need, and if you are approached by a person who will give you $1000, then that person must suspect that you are not an asshole, otherwise they would steer clear of you and not waste $1000 on you. If that person looks you in the eye and suspects that you will NOT carry out your promise to give AT LEAST $2000 back to other needy people, then that person will drop you quickly, like an apple with spiders inside. That's the power of the "altrusim plague". It is reinforced by honorable people, while dishonorable people (though they may occasionally become involved accidentally) will not spread the "plague" to other dishonorable people. The "Plague" elevates the honorable poor, while never touching the poor who are poor intentionally. > I guess it's meant to start with the reader huh, I guess the only > problem is there are more people who could do with the gift than people > willing to start giving. If you find people who want help but who will break the agreement and not help several others in return, then do not waste your resources trying to "infect" those particular people with the "altrusim plague". Give them a buck if you wish (but they'll invariably spend it in their goal of preventing changes to their lifes.) > Maybe on a smaller scale though, I'd love to borrow $1000 dollars, but > could lend a smaller amount myself. The "plague" requires that you use the $1000 to improve yourself to the point where you can go and earn at least $2000, and then use that $2000 (or more) to spread the "plague." > So who's going to start this roller coaster? If the amount was small > then it could grow much faster, it could also be expanded to three or > four people. It's already going. I heard the idea and spread it here (that's the meta-infection). I've yet to find a good person who needs help, but it's only a matter of time... ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > WARNING! If you read this message you will be meta-infected by the > > Altruism Memetic Plague, and you will be able to meta-infect others. > > Note that if you help a needy person (in the way that the virus > > directs), only then will you trigger an *actual* infection. > > > > I will give you this (college degree, house, career, $1000, etc.) > > but you must agree to become indebted. Here's how to repay the debt. > > As soon as possible but before the end of your life, you must find > > two or more other parties who are as needy as you yourself are right > > now, and you must give to them a (college degree, house, career, > > $1000, etc.) equivilant to the one I am about to give to you, and you > > must also bind them to this same agreement. > > > > The above was passed to me. It's an inverse-chain letter! Or more like > > a forest fire that will un-burn the entire world. Please pass it > > along. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 06:27:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA28847; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 06:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 06:25:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 06:23:37 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: The Altruism Virus? FREE ENERGY VIRUS!!! In-Reply-To: <37D5BAB5.A4E865FA@microtec.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"MIiD.0.L27.Rdwst"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11936 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, patrick tremblay wrote: > Bill, > > If you want to help the world, stop kidding yourself and start innovating, then > make a company, you will spread your invention to the world and make a lot of > people work. Yeah, like Hubbard, and Hendershot, and Moray, and Tesla, and Schauberger, and Floyd Sweet, and Greg Watson... you get my drift. > Then you can feel happy about yourself for your accomplishment and the > pay back is of course the PROFIT$ Hey, you know... the Altrusim Plague could be modified. (Genetic engineers grab pre-existing viruses and redesign them as needed.) How about this below. I've just added it to my website. ******************************************************* LIGHT THE FIRE Free energy devices are always suppressed, if not by outright conspiracy, then by greed, and also by the mixture of coincidences and evil (call it "bad luck" or the "free energy curse".) If we announce our successful devices, then we trigger the "curse". However, there is a method to successfully bring an O/U device into the world. It is the "forest fire" method, and it only requires that a single "match" be lit: Find a good person. Enter into an agreement where you will teach that person all of your secrets and skills, so that they become able to build the O/U device without assistance. In repayment, that person must find at least two others (or better, ten or twenty), who are just the same as him/her. That person must then strike the same bargain with each of them. In this way the information spreads like wildfire. There is no egotistic "teaching of the student", because the whole goal is to CREATE TEACHERS. And, because each teacher can only receive the information if they agree to seek out and create more teachers, the process is the same as a chain letter or pyramid scam: it "infects" people, except the benefits flow downwards through the pyramid, rather than money flowing upwards to the instigator. In searching for a F/E device, you are ALREADY attempting to enter into the bargain above. If you clean up your act and burn all traces of self-importance (evil) from your soul, and if you agree to teach others as if they were future teachers (not lowly students!), then like magic you will stumble across the secrets. (Alchemists will find this process to be familiar!) Note well that you did not CREATE the secrets, and so you cannot derive ego-gratification from knowing them. Your only purpose is to become a single bacterium in the scum of the earth. But when each bacterium spreads enlightenment to the others, a vast intelligent creature is formed. If each particle of this creature is a good person, then the creature will be very different from modern governments and corporations: it will have honor, it will have integrity, and it will have a soul. They say that the end times are upon us. I say that the beginning times are upon us. The things which loom on the horizon have not been seen before. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 06:32:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA29971; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 06:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 06:30:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 06:28:11 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Altruism Virus In-Reply-To: <079501bef99c$4a01d100$454a66d1@w7o9k8> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"o6mXK1.0.BK7.jhwst"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11937 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, Fred Epps wrote: > Hi Bill and Patrick, > > I have to agree with Patrick. For all its faults (and they are many, > environmental and social) the business model is the only one that organizes > people's time and energy well enough to actually make a difference. I disagree. The MLM model is extremely powerful. So is the "make money fast" internet chain letter model. These both are "plagues" which travel by infection, and which carry economic patterns along with them as they spread. However, both are somewhat dishonest in that they promise future gains to those who will send money backwards up the pyramid. The "Altruism Plague" promises genuine immediate gains to those who will send similar gains downwards and extend the pyramid. It's like converting poor people into paid charity workers. It's like converting all schools into teacher-education colleges, so that "students" no longer exist, and only "future teachers" exist. > Altruism is based on being wealthy enough to give enough to make a > difference. No, this particular "altruism" is based on CREATING people who can become wealthy enough to go out and CREATE others like them. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 06:35:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA11680; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 06:35:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 06:35:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 06:35:06 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Altruism Virus In-Reply-To: <19990908044515.41494.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"sFPJ_.0.Ks2.Emwst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11938 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, Timothy Flytcher wrote: > Altruism can not work ... for if you are wealthy enough to give some away > you probably cased more damage than you could make up for... Yours is the "zero sum game" philosophy, where wealth can only be had by stealing success from others. Here's a bit about that topic: HERETICAL EVOLUTION, COOPERATORS, TIT-FOR-TAT, ARTIFICIAL LIFE http://www.amasci.com/weird/hevolv.html Suppose I do as the "Findhorn Community" did: find some "dead" land and then spend years improving with organic techniques (no chemicals) it until it becomes an extremely productive farm. Did the "Findhorn Community" steal success from others? Or did they improve the world without creating equal "dis-improvement" elsewhere? They clearly improved it. Anyone can reach out and fix something, and there is no need to go and break something else in order to achive some sort of demented "balance." > OR... you could just do like our government... muck things up so that it > takes more man hours to do anything... than take the credit for all the > people you employ :) Or... take the "altrusim plague" seriously, and go become like a burning pine needle which drifts into the next unburned acre during the forest fire. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 10:08:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA15949; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:08:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:08:32 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-3-dyn39.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.191.182.102] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004a01befd40$b2f83da0$66b6bfd1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: The Altruism Virus Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:02:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ctLWj3.0.6v3.Guzst"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11939 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bill and all, >> >> I have to agree with Patrick. For all its faults (and they are many, >> environmental and social) the business model is the only one that organizes >> people's time and energy well enough to actually make a difference. > >I disagree. The MLM model is extremely powerful. So is the "make money >fast" internet chain letter model. Both examples prove my point. Both are business models, though not good ones. These both are "plagues" which travel >by infection, and which carry economic patterns along with them as they >spread. However, both are somewhat dishonest in that they promise future >gains to those who will send money backwards up the pyramid. The >"Altruism Plague" promises genuine immediate gains to those who will send >similar gains downwards and extend the pyramid. It's like converting poor >people into paid charity workers. It's like converting all schools into >teacher-education colleges, so that "students" no longer exist, and only >"future teachers" exist. I hope it works, but I am still skeptical. Personally I think that any model that doesn't take into account both altruism and self-interest is likely to fail or be destructive. The chain letter is too greedy, and your idea is too altruistic. I can give myself as an example here. I have put more than a thousand dollars as well as several years of consistent effort into building a working free energy device. When I succeed in doing it-- and I will-- I intend to sell this device in some way, either by kits, licensing, sales of a downloadable pdf file, or a book. I am not going to give it away. I am motivated by altruism AND self interest. I truly believe that the world needs a new source of energy and I am working to make it happen. At the same time I would like to have serious money to bankroll quality projects in a number of alternative science areas, and to meet my personal needs, which are not inconsiderable :-) Along the way of this search I have distributed quite a bit of free informat ion on this list and others, often in areas that don't particularly interest me. Most of this info I had to pay for in some way or the other originally. I do this because I want all projects to succeed, not just mine. Am I a "greedy bastard" or a "saint"? Well obviously I am neither. I am a normal (well, not that normal :-) human being with a mixture of motivations. It is a a basic tenet of psychology that if one aspect of human nature is overemphasized, the other part becomes a "shadow" that then affects you and others in a negative form. I believe in balance and integration of altruism and self interest, not the denial of either. Those that are too selfless cannot protect their own interests and often do not have the means to succeed. Those who are too selfish destroy those around them. In your letter to Patrick it was said: > If you want to help the world, stop kidding yourself and start innovating, then > make a company, you will spread your invention to the world and make a lot of > people work. >Yeah, like Hubbard, and Hendershot, and Moray, and Tesla, and Schauberger, and Floyd Sweet, and Greg Watson... you get my drift. OK, let's break it down step by step. I'm doing this from memory so I may have some some details wrong. !) Hubbard was 19 when he invented his device. He did not maintain control of it but sold it to the first fat cat who came along. It's unlikely he got the money. He went on to become a bootlegger. No business model there, just greed. 2) Hendershot could not get his device to work for anyone else. He had nothing to sell. 3) Moray was genuinely sabotaged. However this came about because he was trying to get every expert in the world to agree that his device worked, instead of paying attention to the potential consumers of his device, and building one at a time to sell to people in the neighborhoods of Salt Lake City. This is a work of egotism, not business. 4) Tesla was so unrealistic in his aims that J.P Morgan was justified in pulling the plug on him, which was his right anyway since he was paying the bills. His world power system would have been an environmental disaster anyway. He was a great genius but he allowed himself to be coopted by the wealthy. This was because he had zero business sense. 5) I don't know the story on Schauberger. 6) Floyd Sweet. Another case where if he had just built the things one at a time and sold them to interested parties he could have made some money. Why didn't he? Well as I recall he was too broke to build them. Get a job, Floyd :-) 7) Greg Watson actually had the best plan of all of them. The idea of selling kits is totally reasonable. However he should have not let his enthusiasm carry him away and he should have sent it to a third party lab like Scott Little's first and had it validated first before he tried to sell it. Getting sucked into the psychology of the lists was his biggest mistake. That's assuming he had a device that worked. So, hmm, do we have a failure of the business model here? No, we have a failure to APPLY the business model. These inventors collectively violated every tenet of business. To wit: 1) Have a product that works. 2) Get a second opinion about whether it works. 3) Don't try to sell vaporware. 3) Start small. 4) Maintain control of your finances. 5) Be realistic. 6) Know your market. Common sense---- to paraphrase what Gandhi said about western civilization, "It's a good idea, somebody should try it" :-) Fred >> Altruism is based on being wealthy enough to give enough to make a >> difference. > >No, this particular "altruism" is based on CREATING people who can become >wealthy enough to go out and CREATE others like them. > > >((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) >William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website >billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com >EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science >Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 10:53:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA30436; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:53:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:53:41 -0700 Message-ID: <37DB3871.45DC42C5@mail.admiral.ru> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 09:21:53 +0400 From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Reply-To: frolov@mail.admiral.ru Organization: Home Lab X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The PFT generator 6 Kg force demonstrated in Russia References: <199909111635322.SM00137@[192.168.0.2]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iLmhy2.0.TR7.ZY-st"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11940 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, Look Academician Ignatyev's report about experiment http://www.time-machine.spb.ru/gravity.htm He reported in 1996 about 60N (about 6 Kg) force. Poynting vector means something different from Jean wrote, look the textbook. Also you can take CD from me http://www.time-machine.spb.ru/cd.htm Alexander V. Frolov ------------- Rick Monteverde wrote: > Jean-Louis - > > Seems like any minute now you're going to invent a *real* UFO motor. I have > a question about the setup. When the motor revs up to speed, do you see any > back-torque on the cans? Is their foam block support mounting flexible > enough to allow a small shift as the forces increase? It might be possible > to mount one cylinder on a shaft so that it could turn a few degrees against > a small resistance while keeping the same air gap to the rotor. > > Also, seeing that device makes me want to mentally try to rearrange the > rotating dielectric so that the Poynting flow is all in one linear direction > for thrust like your Poynting thruster does. Cam't quite wrap my mind around > the geometry required for that, though. Any ideas? > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI -- http://www.time-machine.spb.ru ICQ 43757451 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 13:08:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA00484; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:07:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:07:50 -0700 Message-ID: <37DC0857.ABF0DAC0@microtec.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:08:55 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Altruism Virus? FREE ENERGY VIRUS!!! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QHKGO2.0.R7.LW0tt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11941 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill, What's the problem with you. You can't be too altruistic in life, both total selfish greed and total altruism are DEATH POLES. We must find something in the middle or: Total chaos awaits us in the completely wild selfish greed. Boring Status Quo awaits us in the total altruistic form. And why do you talk about those loosers. Like if you want to defend your point stating loosers. This just proves me that altruism is for loosers...heh heh heh!!!! Just look at Ballard Power Systems. They are efficient and coporate minded. Their technology is not even overunity, they haven't even produce a single commercial unit yet, all is just R & D and they are already succeding. When I want to defend my point, I pick winners. William Beaty wrote: > On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, patrick tremblay wrote: > > > Bill, > > > > If you want to help the world, stop kidding yourself and start innovating, then > > make a company, you will spread your invention to the world and make a lot of > > people work. > > Yeah, like Hubbard, and Hendershot, and Moray, and Tesla, and Schauberger, > and Floyd Sweet, and Greg Watson... you get my drift. > > > Then you can feel happy about yourself for your accomplishment and the > > pay back is of course the PROFIT$ > > Hey, you know... the Altrusim Plague could be modified. (Genetic > engineers grab pre-existing viruses and redesign them as needed.) How > about this below. I've just added it to my website. > > ******************************************************* > > LIGHT THE FIRE > > Free energy devices are always suppressed, if not by outright conspiracy, > then by greed, and also by the mixture of coincidences and evil (call it > "bad luck" or the "free energy curse".) > > If we announce our successful devices, then we trigger the "curse". > > However, there is a method to successfully bring an O/U device into the > world. It is the "forest fire" method, and it only requires that a single > "match" be lit: > > Find a good person. Enter into an agreement where you will teach that > person all of your secrets and skills, so that they become able to build > the O/U device without assistance. In repayment, that person must find > at least two others (or better, ten or twenty), who are just the same as > him/her. That person must then strike the same bargain with each of > them. In this way the information spreads like wildfire. There is no > egotistic "teaching of the student", because the whole goal is to CREATE > TEACHERS. And, because each teacher can only receive the information if > they agree to seek out and create more teachers, the process is the same > as a chain letter or pyramid scam: it "infects" people, except the > benefits flow downwards through the pyramid, rather than money flowing > upwards to the instigator. > > In searching for a F/E device, you are ALREADY attempting to enter into > the bargain above. If you clean up your act and burn all traces of > self-importance (evil) from your soul, and if you agree to teach others as > if they were future teachers (not lowly students!), then like magic you > will stumble across the secrets. (Alchemists will find this process to be > familiar!) Note well that you did not CREATE the secrets, and so you > cannot derive ego-gratification from knowing them. Your only purpose is > to become a single bacterium in the scum of the earth. But when each > bacterium spreads enlightenment to the others, a vast intelligent creature > is formed. If each particle of this creature is a good person, then the > creature will be very different from modern governments and corporations: > it will have honor, it will have integrity, and it will have a soul. > > They say that the end times are upon us. I say that the beginning times > are upon us. The things which loom on the horizon have not been seen > before. > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 13:13:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA02448; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:12:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:12:49 -0700 Message-ID: <37DC0983.65E38C17@microtec.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:13:55 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Altruism Virus? FREE ENERGY VIRUS!!! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"v8SM53.0.8c.0b0tt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11942 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill, How can you think so childishly. The moment someone invents a commercially potent overunity device, it will hit the market big time. Don't worry, this has nothing to do with evil conspiracy, this has to do with the incompetence of the inventor or the fallacy of the invention. Nuclear energy did find it's way and it was a multi-billion task with lots of dangers. So why a simple overunity device would not find it's way. It will inevitably, and thankfully not with your boring childish and altruistic schemes. If someone wants to really spread overunity, he will set up a web page containing all the know how in order to build the device, why bother with such old fashioned people chain. > > > LIGHT THE FIRE > > Free energy devices are always suppressed, if not by outright conspiracy, > then by greed, and also by the mixture of coincidences and evil (call it > "bad luck" or the "free energy curse".) > > If we announce our successful devices, then we trigger the "curse". > > However, there is a method to successfully bring an O/U device into the > world. It is the "forest fire" method, and it only requires that a single > "match" be lit: > > Find a good person. Enter into an agreement where you will teach that > person all of your secrets and skills, so that they become able to build > the O/U device without assistance. In repayment, that person must find > at least two others (or better, ten or twenty), who are just the same as > him/her. That person must then strike the same bargain with each of > them. In this way the information spreads like wildfire. There is no > egotistic "teaching of the student", because the whole goal is to CREATE > TEACHERS. And, because each teacher can only receive the information if > they agree to seek out and create more teachers, the process is the same > as a chain letter or pyramid scam: it "infects" people, except the > benefits flow downwards through the pyramid, rather than money flowing > upwards to the instigator. > > In searching for a F/E device, you are ALREADY attempting to enter into > the bargain above. If you clean up your act and burn all traces of > self-importance (evil) from your soul, and if you agree to teach others as > if they were future teachers (not lowly students!), then like magic you > will stumble across the secrets. (Alchemists will find this process to be > familiar!) Note well that you did not CREATE the secrets, and so you > cannot derive ego-gratification from knowing them. Your only purpose is > to become a single bacterium in the scum of the earth. But when each > bacterium spreads enlightenment to the others, a vast intelligent creature > is formed. If each particle of this creature is a good person, then the > creature will be very different from modern governments and corporations: > it will have honor, it will have integrity, and it will have a soul. > > They say that the end times are upon us. I say that the beginning times > are upon us. The things which loom on the horizon have not been seen > before. > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 13:19:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA05902; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:19:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:19:31 -0700 Message-ID: <37DC0B14.B97FB0C@microtec.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:20:36 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: BILL GO TO CHURCH References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qNYdn2.0.7S1.Ih0tt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11943 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: BILL !! Go back to church, and stay there all week long. Enter a volunteer club to wash the elderly's ass, get involved in the local bingo club for charity, quit your job and live out of social assistance. There you can sing gospels all day long, distribute candy to children, grow flowers and chat with old women about the " Good Old Days" where people were more "loving" and less moneying. Is this a deal, there you will be satisfied with all the altruism, humane values, etc. Hey maybe you were a hippie in the 60's, you should've stayed that way. Why are you so superficial and materialistic and maintining this oooh!! "electronic" and "cold" list. Should it be better you talk to people instead and have more loving human contacts. Really! I don't understand you. William Beaty wrote: > On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, Timothy Flytcher wrote: > > > Altruism can not work ... for if you are wealthy enough to give some away > > you probably cased more damage than you could make up for... > > Yours is the "zero sum game" philosophy, where wealth can only be had by > stealing success from others. > > Here's a bit about that topic: > > HERETICAL EVOLUTION, COOPERATORS, TIT-FOR-TAT, ARTIFICIAL LIFE > http://www.amasci.com/weird/hevolv.html > > Suppose I do as the "Findhorn Community" did: find some "dead" land and > then spend years improving with organic techniques (no chemicals) it until > it becomes an extremely productive farm. Did the "Findhorn Community" > steal success from others? Or did they improve the world without creating > equal "dis-improvement" elsewhere? They clearly improved it. Anyone can > reach out and fix something, and there is no need to go and break > something else in order to achive some sort of demented "balance." > > > OR... you could just do like our government... muck things up so that it > > takes more man hours to do anything... than take the credit for all the > > people you employ :) > > Or... take the "altrusim plague" seriously, and go become like a burning > pine needle which drifts into the next unburned acre during the forest > fire. > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 13:49:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA13360; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:49:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:49:35 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-3-dyn47.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.191.182.110] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:49:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008001befd5f$95097ce0$66b6bfd1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: BILL GO TO CHURCH Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:44:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"bk5HS3.0.bG3.V71tt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11944 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Patrick, That Bill's mesage is pushing your buttons so strongly shows that you are still hassling with it yourself. It is really OK if he is an altruistic hippie, you know. Thank God for them :-) > >Go back to church, and stay there all week long. Enter a volunteer club to wash >the elderly's ass, get involved in the local bingo club for charity, quit your >job and live out of social assistance. You are making a bigger separation beween altruism and self interest than Bill ever did. Why can't you be of service to other people and still make money? You equate being helpful with being on welfare? >> >> > Altruism can not work ... for if you are wealthy enough to give some away >> > you probably cased more damage than you could make up for... >> >> Yours is the "zero sum game" philosophy, where wealth can only be had by >> stealing success from others. Bill is quite right here, it is very possible to gain wealth and give to all at the same time. If you don't see that then you must either be oppressed or oppressor. With your belief you cannot be wealthy without being cruel, and since I bet you are not really a cruel person I also bet you are not wealthy. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 14:37:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA14049; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:36:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:36:43 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <6e037e0.250d764c@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:34:04 EDT Subject: Design simple with balance system! To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"xMH7H1.0.QR3.fp1tt"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11945 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, I have added a balance system to my design and it leaves the iron rod free to provide o/u energy for the device. Don't forget the center magnet's function as a flux diverter. The induction coil is optional. See web site for update. Thanks, Butch LaFonte LaFonte Research site 1 or http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 14:36:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA25663; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:35:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:35:41 -0700 Message-ID: <37DC1D3D.90591BFA@telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:38:05 -0700 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Earthquake machine - is this for real? References: <37DAF660.70CBE559@bway.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MUWt-1.0.uG6.jo1tt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11946 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: TESLA EARTHQUAKE MACHINE, SIMPLIFIED. IMAGINE CREATING AN EARTHQUAKE WITH A DEVICE THE SIZE OF A SHOEBOX. THIS DEVICE CAN USING RESONANCE MATCHING OF VIBRATION FREQUENCIES!!! SEE FOR YOURSELF HOW EASY IT IS TO BUILD ONE, MANY PEOPLE HAVE. JUST LIKE A SWING, PUSH IT AT JUST THE RIGHT TIMES AND IT GOES HIGHER, SAME WITH A STRUCTURE OR THE GROUND. $6.50 FOR COMPLETE PLANS/SCHEMATICS AND DIAGRAMS. ORDER#TESLAEQ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 15:30:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA10840; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:30:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:30:25 -0700 Message-ID: <19990912222954.87734.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.254.227.56] From: "Timothy Flytcher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Altruism ? Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:29:53 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"0G7361.0.Hf2.1c2tt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11947 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear William, It all depends on you idea of wealth... all of the wealth people I know are NOT nice people {to say the least!!!} .... Me ... I'm a minimalist... My house is 633 square feet... and will be totals solar and wind powered soon (No, not "off the grid", but close) I see free power all around me... every morning I get up stand at the toilet and relive my self... then flush... WOW! that swirling of the water ... that's free power!!! now just how do I harness it??? I use the sun to heat my home, and simple elaboration to cool it... wind and sun for electricity... there is just simply power everywhere!!! it is so common we just don't see it... but the world dose not want to live as I and my family dose... ??? So, all my inventions are for me... I use them ... and there not for sale! sometimes I think about writing a book... then I think about the hippocrates in there suv's. I won't even try... I AM rich... but have little money... how about you? Timothy... > > Altruism can not work ... for if you are wealthy enough to give some >away > > you probably cased more damage than you could make up for... > > >Yours is the "zero sum game" philosophy, where wealth can only be had by >stealing success from others. > > >Here's a bit about that topic: > > HERETICAL EVOLUTION, COOPERATORS, TIT-FOR-TAT, ARTIFICIAL LIFE > http://www.amasci.com/weird/hevolv.html > > >Suppose I do as the "Findhorn Community" did: find some "dead" land and >then spend years improving with organic techniques (no chemicals) it until >it becomes an extremely productive farm. Did the "Findhorn Community" >steal success from others? Or did they improve the world without creating >equal "dis-improvement" elsewhere? They clearly improved it. Anyone can >reach out and fix something, and there is no need to go and break >something else in order to achive some sort of demented "balance." > > > > OR... you could just do like our government... muck things up so that it > > takes more man hours to do anything... than take the credit for all the > > people you employ :) > >Or... take the "altrusim plague" seriously, and go become like a burning >pine needle which drifts into the next unburned acre during the forest >fire. > > >((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) >William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website >billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com >EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science >Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 17:36:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA10043; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:36:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:36:01 -0700 From: MATTIARO@aol.com Message-ID: <5261fee2.250da0ae@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:34:54 EDT Subject: Re: current status of my TMB cell To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"8aw462.0.kS2.nR4tt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11948 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi. Try using distilled water. It is available in grocery store(s). Matti From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 19:02:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA02556; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:01:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:01:43 -0700 Message-ID: <37DC5B40.7445122C@microtec.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:02:40 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: BILL GO TO CHURCH References: <008001befd5f$95097ce0$66b6bfd1@w7o9k8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"l1VbX2.0.rd.7i5tt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11949 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You're right: 1) I'm not wealthy 2) I'm not cruel. But I'll be both if they continue to pressure me. But I'm on my way to be wealthy. If a guy in need crosses my path and askes for help I'll gladly give it to him. But I'm no mother theresa and I won't chase all the guys in need to be a professional helper. Get the point. Also I'm pursuing self interests. If Bill wants to be an altruistic hippie, thank God, I say just like you. Cheers for Bill, fine. He is a kind person. Go ahead Bill. Just a warning, don't expect to have the payback you deserve. But what ticks me off is when they say: It's bad to pursue self-interests, pursue other's interests. And when church says: when you make money it's for humanitarian purposes ONLY!! It's okay to make money and it's okay to give it away. But what ticks me off is when they say that you HAVE to give it away and they even say how much you must give. To all of those, you won't get a cent from me, I'll give my money to those really in need, those who won't use MORALITY and the menace of HELL as a purpose to force me to give money. And in fact, give a fish to an esquimau and he will eat ounce, teach him to fish and he will always eat at his own hunger. Self-reliance is the key. And to fihish it all, here's a little joke I have to tell you about Hell and Heaven. And Bill you're on the hit list of that one. Hell: There are 12 man at a table with very long spoons and a pot of soup. every one tries to serve himself at the pot but the spoon is too long for them to bring it back to their mouths. So all the selfish ones are left to starve and they are living the pain of starvation. Heaven: Everyone has a spoon too long but they serve "each other" and every one is happy and eat at their heats out. Now, if it was for me, either heaven or hell, and because I can't dig food with other's saliva in it...heh heh heh. I'd free myself from the chains, I'd take my spoon and I'd hit every one on the table and finish them off, then I'd break my spoon and I'd have all the pot of soup for me. HEH HEH HEH HEH HEH HEH....Cruel Laugh!!! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 19:03:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA03082; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:03:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:03:27 -0700 Message-ID: <37DC5BAF.A81F3B9@microtec.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:04:32 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Altruism ? References: <19990912222954.87734.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cr9qM.0.1m.lj5tt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11950 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Go ahead and harness your shit water power...heh heh heh. You just made my point. Why put our hands in shit to be altruistic. Let's invent and we won't have to depend on one another. Timothy Flytcher wrote: > Dear William, > It all depends on you idea of wealth... all of the wealth people I know are > NOT nice people {to say the least!!!} .... > Me ... I'm a minimalist... My house is 633 square feet... and will be totals > solar and wind powered soon (No, not "off the grid", but close) > I see free power all around me... every morning I get up stand at the toilet > and relive my self... then flush... WOW! that swirling of the water ... > that's free power!!! now just how do I harness it??? I use the sun to heat > my home, and simple elaboration to cool it... wind and sun for > electricity... there is just simply power everywhere!!! it is so common we > just don't see it... but the world dose not want to live as I and my family > dose... ??? So, all my inventions are for me... I use them ... and there not > for sale! > sometimes I think about writing a book... then I think about the hippocrates > in there suv's. I won't even try... I AM rich... but have little money... > how about you? > Timothy... > > > > Altruism can not work ... for if you are wealthy enough to give some > >away > > > you probably cased more damage than you could make up for... > > > > > >Yours is the "zero sum game" philosophy, where wealth can only be had by > >stealing success from others. > > > > > >Here's a bit about that topic: > > > > HERETICAL EVOLUTION, COOPERATORS, TIT-FOR-TAT, ARTIFICIAL LIFE > > http://www.amasci.com/weird/hevolv.html > > > > > >Suppose I do as the "Findhorn Community" did: find some "dead" land and > >then spend years improving with organic techniques (no chemicals) it until > >it becomes an extremely productive farm. Did the "Findhorn Community" > >steal success from others? Or did they improve the world without creating > >equal "dis-improvement" elsewhere? They clearly improved it. Anyone can > >reach out and fix something, and there is no need to go and break > >something else in order to achive some sort of demented "balance." > > > > > > > OR... you could just do like our government... muck things up so that it > > > takes more man hours to do anything... than take the credit for all the > > > people you employ :) > > > >Or... take the "altrusim plague" seriously, and go become like a burning > >pine needle which drifts into the next unburned acre during the forest > >fire. > > > > > >((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > >William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > >billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > >EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > >Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 19:59:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA18800; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:59:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:59:11 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-6-dyn46.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.102.74.157] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:59:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001701befd93$3603ef80$9d4a66d1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Earthquake machine - is this for real? Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:54:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"oFyPu1.0.fb4._X6tt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11951 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Don, Tesla did have such a device, whether this thing does what his was supposed to do I don't know. Fred >TESLA EARTHQUAKE MACHINE, SIMPLIFIED. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 20:07:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA21542; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:07:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:07:27 -0700 Message-ID: <000801befd94$de2e0e60$f82389d0@user> From: "Ray Bradshaw" To: Subject: Re: BILL GO TO CHURCH Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:05:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"uU0fg2.0.QG5.kf6tt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11952 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: TO : Everyone I normally wouldn't respond to this, but, in my opinion, I'm tired of listening to this junk. The objective we should have is to find a way to create FE and O/U. From all the things I've read from Bill, he's been doing nothing else but inputing his ideas and theories. I honestly believe his intentions are good, not evil. I also think that people who aren't supporting, providing help or input about this kind of work, shouldn't be saying anything. Let people get on with their work and post their findings, ideas, and questions. They have more important things to work on instead of bickering among themselves and others. Please stop arguing. How can we create something to help mankind when we can't even work towards a common goal with eachother ? Ray Bradshaw From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 20:11:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA24438; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:10:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:10:55 -0700 Message-ID: <19990913031019.12460.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.254.227.134] From: "Timothy Flytcher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: BILL GO TO CHURCH Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:10:19 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"tMHmh1.0.bz5.-i6tt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11953 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >You're right: > >1) I'm not wealthy >2) I'm not cruel. > >But I'll be both if they continue to pressure me. Well then... I'm happy, and sad for you.... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 20:39:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA00446; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:37:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:37:42 -0700 Message-ID: <37DC7475.E2CF92E7@ihug.co.nz> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:50:13 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: leoguitar@vossnet.de, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Human power source charging cap ! :) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wZ_WA.0.Y6.467tt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11954 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is very interesting, 20 volts is quite high, do see how fast it charges at different times. Please also give me more info on the components used, I find this very interesting! (more info on the cap) John Berry Stefan Hartmann wrote: > Hi, > as I did run yeasterday a few TMB experiments I also stumbled > across a real power producing experiment charging the capacitor > using my hands ! > > If you connect a 1 uF cap and 2 diodes 1N4007 in series > like this: > > anode-DIODE1-cathode-+-capacitor-+-anode-DIODE2-cathode > > and touch with one hand the left annode and with the other > hand the right cathode, you can charge up the capacitor > pretty quickly to about 20 Volts in a few seconds ! > So if you then discharge this cap into an LED it will blink pretty > bright ! > > So you can see how much power your body generates ! :) > > Maybe just an body antenna effect, but it is > interesting to see ! > > Regards, Stefan. > > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 21:38:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA17992; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:38:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:38:22 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990912213039.222ff562@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:30:39 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Human power source charging cap ! :) In-Reply-To: <37DC7475.E2CF92E7@ihug.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"s-CKk3.0.1P4.--7tt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11955 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi John and Stefan, At 03:50 PM 9/13/99 +1200, you wrote: >This is very interesting, 20 volts is quite high, do see how fast it >charges at different times. > >Please also give me more info on the components used, I find this very >interesting! (more info on the cap) > > >John Berry > >Stefan Hartmann wrote: > >> Hi, >> as I did run yeasterday a few TMB experiments I also stumbled >> across a real power producing experiment charging the capacitor >> using my hands ! >> >> If you connect a 1 uF cap and 2 diodes 1N4007 in series >> like this: >> >> anode-DIODE1-cathode-+-capacitor-+-anode-DIODE2-cathode >> >> and touch with one hand the left annode and with the other >> hand the right cathode, you can charge up the capacitor >> pretty quickly to about 20 Volts in a few seconds ! >> So if you then discharge this cap into an LED it will blink pretty >> bright ! Maybe the power line 50Hz fields are much stronger where you are, Stefan? I can get up to about 2.5 Volts, but it takes several minutes. It is important not to have the voltmeter connected or it will load the circuit. Many digital voltmeters have an input resistance of 10 megohms, giving a time constant of 10 seconds with a 1 uF capacitor. (A one second reading 1s 1/10 time constant.) With a voltmeter connected my voltage measurements increase to only about 0.4 Volts. John, the capacitor needs to be a good quality = low leakage capacitor, such as polycarbonate. A way to test one is to charge it to a voltage, say 6V, disconnect it and measure its voltage several minutes later. A good capacitor will "keep its charge" and measure the same voltage. Also it may seem that only one diode is required, as they are in series. This isn't true for me, with only 1 diode the peak voltage is only about 0.2 Volts. So stray/antenna effects play an effect. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 00:24:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA22287; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:23:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:23:49 -0700 Message-ID: <37DCA715.A52C9B0B@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:26:14 -0700 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: BILL GO TO CHURCH References: <000801befd94$de2e0e60$f82389d0@user> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bKP9H1.0.8S5.5QAtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11956 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I agree with Ray, nuff said. Ray Bradshaw wrote: > TO : Everyone > > I normally wouldn't respond to this, but, in my opinion, I'm tired of > listening to this junk. The objective we should have is to find a way to > create FE and O/U. From all the things I've read from Bill, he's been doing > nothing else but inputing his ideas and theories. I honestly believe his > intentions are good, not evil. I also think that people who aren't > supporting, providing help or input about this kind of work, shouldn't be > saying anything. Let people get on with their work and post their findings, > ideas, and questions. They have more important things to work on instead of > bickering among themselves and others. Please stop arguing. How can we > create something to help mankind when we can't even work towards a common > goal with eachother ? > > Ray Bradshaw > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 00:24:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA22312; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:23:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:23:52 -0700 Message-ID: <37DCA719.4C8620E1@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:26:17 -0700 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Tim & Pat - Re: Altruism ? References: <19990912222954.87734.qmail@hotmail.com> <37DC5BAF.A81F3B9@microtec.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tIded.0.XS5.8QAtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11957 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Geez, Pat... what wrong side of the bed did YOU wakeup on? If more people tried to do what Tim does, the world would be a better, happier and safer place for all. patrick tremblay wrote: > Go ahead and harness your shit water power...heh heh heh. > > You just made my point. Why put our hands in shit to be altruistic. Let's invent > and we won't have to depend on one another. > > Timothy Flytcher wrote: > > > Dear William, > > It all depends on you idea of wealth... all of the wealth people I know are > > NOT nice people {to say the least!!!} .... > > Me ... I'm a minimalist... My house is 633 square feet... and will be totals > > solar and wind powered soon (No, not "off the grid", but close) > > I see free power all around me... every morning I get up stand at the toilet > > and relive my self... then flush... WOW! that swirling of the water ... > > that's free power!!! now just how do I harness it??? I use the sun to heat > > my home, and simple elaboration to cool it... wind and sun for > > electricity... there is just simply power everywhere!!! it is so common we > > just don't see it... but the world dose not want to live as I and my family > > dose... ??? So, all my inventions are for me... I use them ... and there not > > for sale! > > sometimes I think about writing a book... then I think about the hippocrates > > in there suv's. I won't even try... I AM rich... but have little money... > > how about you? > > Timothy... > > > > > > Altruism can not work ... for if you are wealthy enough to give some > > >away > > > > you probably cased more damage than you could make up for... > > > > > > > > >Yours is the "zero sum game" philosophy, where wealth can only be had by > > >stealing success from others. > > > > > > > > >Here's a bit about that topic: > > > > > > HERETICAL EVOLUTION, COOPERATORS, TIT-FOR-TAT, ARTIFICIAL LIFE > > > http://www.amasci.com/weird/hevolv.html > > > > > > > > >Suppose I do as the "Findhorn Community" did: find some "dead" land and > > >then spend years improving with organic techniques (no chemicals) it until > > >it becomes an extremely productive farm. Did the "Findhorn Community" > > >steal success from others? Or did they improve the world without creating > > >equal "dis-improvement" elsewhere? They clearly improved it. Anyone can > > >reach out and fix something, and there is no need to go and break > > >something else in order to achive some sort of demented "balance." > > > > > > > > > > OR... you could just do like our government... muck things up so that it > > > > takes more man hours to do anything... than take the credit for all the > > > > people you employ :) > > > > > >Or... take the "altrusim plague" seriously, and go become like a burning > > >pine needle which drifts into the next unburned acre during the forest > > >fire. > > > > > > > > >((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > > >William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > > >billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > > >EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > > >Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 00:24:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA22396; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:24:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:24:13 -0700 Message-ID: <37DCA725.40B185AE@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:26:31 -0700 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: BILL GO TO CHURCH References: <008001befd5f$95097ce0$66b6bfd1@w7o9k8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Lt4wP.0.mT5.TQAtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11958 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well, I for one agree with Fred and Bill.... as for old 'hippies', some of my best friends are hippies... Fred Epps wrote: > Hi Patrick, > > That Bill's mesage is pushing your buttons so strongly shows that you are > still hassling with it yourself. It is really OK if he is an altruistic > hippie, you know. Thank God for them :-) > > > >Go back to church, and stay there all week long. Enter a volunteer club to > wash > >the elderly's ass, get involved in the local bingo club for charity, quit > your > >job and live out of social assistance. > > You are making a bigger separation beween altruism and self interest than > Bill ever did. Why can't you be of service to other people and still make > money? You equate being helpful with being on welfare? > > >> > >> > Altruism can not work ... for if you are wealthy enough to give some > away > >> > you probably cased more damage than you could make up for... > >> > >> Yours is the "zero sum game" philosophy, where wealth can only be had by > >> stealing success from others. > > Bill is quite right here, it is very possible to gain wealth and give to all > at the same time. If you don't see that then you must either be oppressed or > oppressor. > > With your belief you cannot be wealthy without being cruel, and since I bet > you are not really a cruel person I also bet you are not wealthy. > > Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 01:16:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA30951; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:16:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:16:15 -0700 From: b1kidd@uswest.net Delivered-To: fixup-freenrg-l@eskimo.com@fixme Message-ID: <37DCB2C9.6E35A7EB@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:16:09 -0700 Reply-To: b1kidd@uswest.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: BILL GO TO CHURCH References: <008001befd5f$95097ce0$66b6bfd1@w7o9k8> <37DCA725.40B185AE@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------CA99C7824BA9485EB8DA7E92" Resent-Message-ID: <"xlu7a3.0.WZ7.FBBtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11959 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --------------CA99C7824BA9485EB8DA7E92 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well how about that looks like Bill struck a nerve... There's a nerve in them thar people. To tell ya the damn truth I WISH YOU ALL WOULD STOP YOUR DAMN ARGUEING. Here we go again. If the person that told Bill to go to Church, he would understand what God is really about. god does not force his point of veiw on any one person, nor does he critisize a person for the way they veiw a situation or circumstance... I'm not defending Bill or putting down the other fellow. If we are going to come up with a way to standardize free energy, we all will have to lay down our childishness. I once was a child, so I thought as a child, now I'm a man, so I think and persue with wisdom, like a real man. I hope some one agrees... D Adams wrote: > Well, I for one agree with Fred and Bill.... as for old 'hippies', some of my > best friends > are hippies... > > Fred Epps wrote: > > > Hi Patrick, > > > > That Bill's mesage is pushing your buttons so strongly shows that you are > > still hassling with it yourself. It is really OK if he is an altruistic > > hippie, you know. Thank God for them :-) > > > > > >Go back to church, and stay there all week long. Enter a volunteer club to > > wash > > >the elderly's ass, get involved in the local bingo club for charity, quit > > your > > >job and live out of social assistance. > > > > You are making a bigger separation beween altruism and self interest than > > Bill ever did. Why can't you be of service to other people and still make > > money? You equate being helpful with being on welfare? > > > > >> > > >> > Altruism can not work ... for if you are wealthy enough to give some > > away > > >> > you probably cased more damage than you could make up for... > > >> > > >> Yours is the "zero sum game" philosophy, where wealth can only be had by > > >> stealing success from others. > > > > Bill is quite right here, it is very possible to gain wealth and give to all > > at the same time. If you don't see that then you must either be oppressed or > > oppressor. > > > > With your belief you cannot be wealthy without being cruel, and since I bet > > you are not really a cruel person I also bet you are not wealthy. > > > > Fred --------------CA99C7824BA9485EB8DA7E92 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well how about that looks like Bill struck a nerve... There's a nerve in them thar people. To tell ya the damn truth I WISH YOU ALL WOULD STOP YOUR DAMN ARGUEING.
Here we go again. If the person that told Bill to go to Church, he would understand what God is really about. god does not force his point of veiw on any one person, nor does he critisize a person for the way they veiw a situation or circumstance... I'm not defending Bill or putting down the other fellow.  If we are going to come up with a way to standardize free energy, we all will have to lay down our childishness.  I once was a child, so I thought as a child, now I'm a man, so I think and persue with wisdom, like a real man.  I hope some one agrees...

D Adams wrote:

Well, I for one agree with Fred and Bill.... as for old 'hippies', some of my
best friends
are hippies...

Fred Epps wrote:

> Hi Patrick,
>
> That Bill's mesage is pushing your buttons so strongly shows that you are
> still hassling with it yourself.  It is really OK if he is an altruistic
> hippie, you know.  Thank God for them :-)
> >
> >Go back to church, and stay there all week long. Enter a volunteer club to
> wash
> >the elderly's ass, get involved in the local bingo club for charity, quit
> your
> >job and live out of social assistance.
>
> You are making a bigger separation beween altruism and self interest than
> Bill ever did.  Why can't you be of service to other people and still make
> money? You equate being helpful with being on welfare?
>
> >>
> >> > Altruism can not work ... for if you are wealthy enough to give some
> away
> >> > you probably cased more damage than you could make up for...
> >>
> >> Yours is the "zero sum game" philosophy, where wealth can only be had by
> >> stealing success from others.
>
> Bill is quite right here, it is very possible to gain wealth and give to all
> at the same time. If you don't see that then you must either be oppressed or
> oppressor.
>
> With your belief you cannot be wealthy without being cruel, and since I bet
> you are not really a cruel person I also bet you are not wealthy.
>
> Fred

--------------CA99C7824BA9485EB8DA7E92-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 01:31:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA01216; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:31:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:31:09 -0700 From: b1kidd@uswest.net Delivered-To: fixup-freenrg-l@eskimo.com@fixme Message-ID: <37DCB647.2DF07455@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:31:04 -0700 Reply-To: b1kidd@uswest.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: BILL GO TO CHURCH References: <008001befd5f$95097ce0$66b6bfd1@w7o9k8> <37DCA725.40B185AE@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B9680023B9AEC35CCA8219DA" Resent-Message-ID: <"7M0Cq2.0.uI.CPBtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11960 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --------------B9680023B9AEC35CCA8219DA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Fred, you go with your bad self man. I like what you wrote. "KOOL" D Adams wrote: > Well, I for one agree with Fred and Bill.... as for old 'hippies', some of my > best friends > are hippies... > > Fred Epps wrote: > > > Hi Patrick, > > > > That Bill's mesage is pushing your buttons so strongly shows that you are > > still hassling with it yourself. It is really OK if he is an altruistic > > hippie, you know. Thank God for them :-) > > > > > >Go back to church, and stay there all week long. Enter a volunteer club to > > wash > > >the elderly's ass, get involved in the local bingo club for charity, quit > > your > > >job and live out of social assistance. > > > > You are making a bigger separation beween altruism and self interest than > > Bill ever did. Why can't you be of service to other people and still make > > money? You equate being helpful with being on welfare? > > > > >> > > >> > Altruism can not work ... for if you are wealthy enough to give some > > away > > >> > you probably cased more damage than you could make up for... > > >> > > >> Yours is the "zero sum game" philosophy, where wealth can only be had by > > >> stealing success from others. > > > > Bill is quite right here, it is very possible to gain wealth and give to all > > at the same time. If you don't see that then you must either be oppressed or > > oppressor. > > > > With your belief you cannot be wealthy without being cruel, and since I bet > > you are not really a cruel person I also bet you are not wealthy. > > > > Fred --------------B9680023B9AEC35CCA8219DA Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Fred, you go with your bad self man. I like what you wrote. "KOOL"

D Adams wrote:

Well, I for one agree with Fred and Bill.... as for old 'hippies', some of my
best friends
are hippies...

Fred Epps wrote:

> Hi Patrick,
>
> That Bill's mesage is pushing your buttons so strongly shows that you are
> still hassling with it yourself.  It is really OK if he is an altruistic
> hippie, you know.  Thank God for them :-)
> >
> >Go back to church, and stay there all week long. Enter a volunteer club to
> wash
> >the elderly's ass, get involved in the local bingo club for charity, quit
> your
> >job and live out of social assistance.
>
> You are making a bigger separation beween altruism and self interest than
> Bill ever did.  Why can't you be of service to other people and still make
> money? You equate being helpful with being on welfare?
>
> >>
> >> > Altruism can not work ... for if you are wealthy enough to give some
> away
> >> > you probably cased more damage than you could make up for...
> >>
> >> Yours is the "zero sum game" philosophy, where wealth can only be had by
> >> stealing success from others.
>
> Bill is quite right here, it is very possible to gain wealth and give to all
> at the same time. If you don't see that then you must either be oppressed or
> oppressor.
>
> With your belief you cannot be wealthy without being cruel, and since I bet
> you are not really a cruel person I also bet you are not wealthy.
>
> Fred

--------------B9680023B9AEC35CCA8219DA-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 01:38:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA03665; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:38:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:38:20 -0700 From: b1kidd@uswest.net Delivered-To: fixup-freenrg-l@eskimo.com@fixme Message-ID: <37DCB7F7.752C0FBE@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:38:15 -0700 Reply-To: b1kidd@uswest.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: To all Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------D06A90E5A2042429CCA164E1" Resent-Message-ID: <"7gVAi.0.Av.yVBtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11961 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D06A90E5A2042429CCA164E1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------D06A90E5A2042429CCA164E1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Delivered-To: b1kidd@mail.sttl.uswest.net Received: (qmail 5087 invoked by uid 0); 13 Sep 1999 08:24:42 -0000 Received: from mail2.uswest.net (204.147.80.18) by sttlpop5.sttl.uswest.net with SMTP; 13 Sep 1999 08:24:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 5573 invoked by alias); 13 Sep 1999 08:24:41 -0000 Delivered-To: b1kidd@uswest.net Received: (qmail 5561 invoked from network); 13 Sep 1999 08:24:41 -0000 Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (204.122.16.48) by mail2.uswest.net with SMTP; 13 Sep 1999 08:24:41 -0000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA30955; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:16:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:16:16 -0700 From: b1kidd@uswest.net Delivered-To: fixup-freenrg-l@eskimo.com@fixme Message-ID: <37DCB2C9.6E35A7EB@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:16:09 -0700 Reply-To: b1kidd@uswest.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: BILL GO TO CHURCH References: <008001befd5f$95097ce0$66b6bfd1@w7o9k8> <37DCA725.40B185AE@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------CA99C7824BA9485EB8DA7E92" Resent-Message-ID: <"xlu7a3.0.WZ7.FBBtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11959 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 --------------CA99C7824BA9485EB8DA7E92 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well how about that looks like Bill struck a nerve... There's a nerve in them thar people. To tell ya the damn truth I WISH YOU ALL WOULD STOP YOUR DAMN ARGUEING. Here we go again. If the person that told Bill to go to Church, he would understand what God is really about. god does not force his point of veiw on any one person, nor does he critisize a person for the way they veiw a situation or circumstance... I'm not defending Bill or putting down the other fellow. If we are going to come up with a way to standardize free energy, we all will have to lay down our childishness. I once was a child, so I thought as a child, now I'm a man, so I think and persue with wisdom, like a real man. I hope some one agrees... D Adams wrote: > Well, I for one agree with Fred and Bill.... as for old 'hippies', some of my > best friends > are hippies... > > Fred Epps wrote: > > > Hi Patrick, > > > > That Bill's mesage is pushing your buttons so strongly shows that you are > > still hassling with it yourself. It is really OK if he is an altruistic > > hippie, you know. Thank God for them :-) > > > > > >Go back to church, and stay there all week long. Enter a volunteer club to > > wash > > >the elderly's ass, get involved in the local bingo club for charity, quit > > your > > >job and live out of social assistance. > > > > You are making a bigger separation beween altruism and self interest than > > Bill ever did. Why can't you be of service to other people and still make > > money? You equate being helpful with being on welfare? > > > > >> > > >> > Altruism can not work ... for if you are wealthy enough to give some > > away > > >> > you probably cased more damage than you could make up for... > > >> > > >> Yours is the "zero sum game" philosophy, where wealth can only be had by > > >> stealing success from others. > > > > Bill is quite right here, it is very possible to gain wealth and give to all > > at the same time. If you don't see that then you must either be oppressed or > > oppressor. > > > > With your belief you cannot be wealthy without being cruel, and since I bet > > you are not really a cruel person I also bet you are not wealthy. > > > > Fred --------------CA99C7824BA9485EB8DA7E92 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well how about that looks like Bill struck a nerve... There's a nerve in them thar people. To tell ya the damn truth I WISH YOU ALL WOULD STOP YOUR DAMN ARGUEING.
Here we go again. If the person that told Bill to go to Church, he would understand what God is really about. god does not force his point of veiw on any one person, nor does he critisize a person for the way they veiw a situation or circumstance... I'm not defending Bill or putting down the other fellow.  If we are going to come up with a way to standardize free energy, we all will have to lay down our childishness.  I once was a child, so I thought as a child, now I'm a man, so I think and persue with wisdom, like a real man.  I hope some one agrees...

D Adams wrote:

Well, I for one agree with Fred and Bill.... as for old 'hippies', some of my
best friends
are hippies...

Fred Epps wrote:

> Hi Patrick,
>
> That Bill's mesage is pushing your buttons so strongly shows that you are
> still hassling with it yourself.  It is really OK if he is an altruistic
> hippie, you know.  Thank God for them :-)
> >
> >Go back to church, and stay there all week long. Enter a volunteer club to
> wash
> >the elderly's ass, get involved in the local bingo club for charity, quit
> your
> >job and live out of social assistance.
>
> You are making a bigger separation beween altruism and self interest than
> Bill ever did.  Why can't you be of service to other people and still make
> money? You equate being helpful with being on welfare?
>
> >>
> >> > Altruism can not work ... for if you are wealthy enough to give some
> away
> >> > you probably cased more damage than you could make up for...
> >>
> >> Yours is the "zero sum game" philosophy, where wealth can only be had by
> >> stealing success from others.
>
> Bill is quite right here, it is very possible to gain wealth and give to all
> at the same time. If you don't see that then you must either be oppressed or
> oppressor.
>
> With your belief you cannot be wealthy without being cruel, and since I bet
> you are not really a cruel person I also bet you are not wealthy.
>
> Fred

--------------CA99C7824BA9485EB8DA7E92-- --------------D06A90E5A2042429CCA164E1-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 01:40:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA03874; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:40:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:40:07 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-2-dyn6.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.102.74.21] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:40:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <018801befdc2$d8076a80$9d4a66d1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: , Subject: Re: BILL GO TO CHURCH Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:34:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0185_01BEFD88.2A58E100" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"MLDUa3.0.My.cXBtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11962 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0185_01BEFD88.2A58E100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks :-) Hey I like your typography too :-) =20 =20 Hey Fred, you go with your bad self man. I like what you wrote. = "KOOL"=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0185_01BEFD88.2A58E100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks :-) Hey I like your = typography too=20 :-)

 
Hey=20 Fred, you go with your bad self man. I like what you wrote.=20 "KOOL"=20

 

------=_NextPart_000_0185_01BEFD88.2A58E100-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 01:41:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA04933; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:40:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:40:58 -0700 From: MKSBoysal@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 02:30:54 EDT Subject: Last year I purchased a NEUROPHONE To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"gompr2.0.-C1.QYBtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11963 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: << Just wanted to let you know guys that last year I did purchased a Flanagan's NEUROPHONE which cost me $800.00 thinking greatly that the device would work, which I had some unusual plans for it. But most unfortunately NEUROPHONE didn't work on me at all, I got 0 results out of it. I played with it about a months I could hear the audio through my ears but nothing internally in the had so I returned the device back. I also opened to see the electronic chips and components inside of the gizmo but it was sealed with some kind of black epoxy so I left it alone. Mehmet.>> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 01:58:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA08838; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:57:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:57:58 -0700 From: MKSBoysal@aol.com Message-ID: <53438399.250df984@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 02:53:56 EDT Subject: Re: The PFT Motor mk2, an enhanced High Speed version To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"cfJwF.0.v92.KoBtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11964 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: << Dear JEAN-LOUIS It is very interesting to see your great dedication and practice day after day, and year after year toward the free energy research. What I was wondering: According to your research about these high voltage Brushless dc motors if you were to make larger size like 12 inches diameter (or may be even larger size) out of heavy plexy glass cylinder or a pipe, will it have enough torque to turn a some kind of generator to sustain itself? Thanks Jean for all the time and energy you put in this research and further more your kindness to share with the list. Mehmet.>> << Dear All, Today (09-11-99) I have updated my web site : The PFT Motor mk2 uses two asymmetrical capacitors for generating a continuous rotation of the rotor at high speed. The rotor is composed of a dielectric ( a common plastic ) cylinder with an aluminum sheet fixed in the inner surface, this is the rotating armature of the cylinder capacitor. Two aluminum cylinders ( length: 115mm, diam.: 65mm ) have been used as the fixed armature of the capacitor. The measured capacitance is about 14pF. One aluminum cylinder has been connected to +28kV DC and the other to the ground (OV). With the rotor blocked, the leakage current was only 1uA, so the coronna effect was insignificant and this shows clearly that this motor is not a coronna motor. The PFT Motor mk2 turns at high speed : 2770 RPM with only 99uA. The PFT Motor mk2 has no brushes and it can run for a long time. Experimental setup: The PFT motor mk2 has been tested successfully powered with an electronic High Voltage DC generator, the current has been measured with a digital multimeter and the turn speed with an optical tachometer. The motor doesn't start itself, a gently push is required for inducing a rotational asymmetry in the E-Field and thus a continuous asymmetrical S-Flow : Spinning of asymmetrical E-fields is the main key of this motor You will find all diagrams, pictures and videos at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/pftm2.htm Best Regards and Good week-end, Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm >> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 02:25:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA13304; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 02:25:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 02:25:05 -0700 Message-ID: <37DCC2E8.369F76BE@harti.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:24:56 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, John Berry , "ddameron@earthlink.net" , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: Human power source charging cap ! :) References: <3.0.6.16.19990912213039.222ff562@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Mskdg.0.nF3.nBCtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11965 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I just used a normal 1 uF non electrolytic capacitor Siemens MKH type 1 uF, 63 Volts max. Then in series with the cap at the left and right side just one 1N4007 diode. Then I just touch the ends of the diodes ! No TMB metals with it connected or anything else ! I just had the scope with a 101 MOhm scope head connected across the cap and it rises up to 15 to 20 Volts in about half a minute. It also works with just ONE diode, but with 2 diodes the charging is faster ! anode-DIODE1-cathode-+-capacitor-+-anode-DIODE2-cathode Then I can discharge the cap into an LED and it blinks bright for the millisecond discharge interval. Best regards, Stefan. Dave Dameron schrieb: > > Hi John and Stefan, > At 03:50 PM 9/13/99 +1200, you wrote: > >This is very interesting, 20 volts is quite high, do see how fast it > >charges at different times. > > > >Please also give me more info on the components used, I find this very > >interesting! (more info on the cap) > > > > > >John Berry > > > >Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> as I did run yeasterday a few TMB experiments I also stumbled > >> across a real power producing experiment charging the capacitor > >> using my hands ! > >> > >> If you connect a 1 uF cap and 2 diodes 1N4007 in series > >> like this: > >> > >> anode-DIODE1-cathode-+-capacitor-+-anode-DIODE2-cathode > >> > >> and touch with one hand the left annode and with the other > >> hand the right cathode, you can charge up the capacitor > >> pretty quickly to about 20 Volts in a few seconds ! > >> So if you then discharge this cap into an LED it will blink pretty > >> bright ! > > Maybe the power line 50Hz fields are much stronger where you are, Stefan? > I can get up to about 2.5 Volts, but it takes several minutes. It is > important not to have the voltmeter connected or it will load the circuit. > Many digital voltmeters have an input resistance of 10 megohms, giving a > time constant of 10 seconds with a 1 uF capacitor. (A one second reading 1s > 1/10 time constant.) With a voltmeter connected my voltage measurements > increase to only about 0.4 Volts. > > John, the capacitor needs to be a good quality = low leakage capacitor, > such as polycarbonate. A way to test one is to charge it to a voltage, say > 6V, disconnect it and measure its voltage several minutes later. A good > capacitor will "keep its charge" and measure the same voltage. Also it may > seem that only one diode is required, as they are in series. This isn't > true for me, with only 1 diode the peak voltage is only about 0.2 Volts. So > stray/antenna effects play an effect. > -Dave -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 04:47:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA31749; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 04:47:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 04:47:05 -0700 Message-ID: <000001befddd$922d61c0$96d2989e@callaghansystems.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: "David Callaghan" From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Human power source charging cap ! / TMB Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:45:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZGuri3.0.-l7.vGEtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11966 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all Could someone who is messing with a TMB style unit try the following: Exp A ===== See if orientation makes a difference to the output of the unit. Exp B ===== 1. Ditch the magnets/dielectric etc. 2. Find a clear area at least 5m away from any large objects 3. Stick one plate into the ground 4. Stick the other plate on top of a plastic (or good insulator) pole about 1 metre above the ground. 5. Stand at least 5m away from the plates. With a sufficiently high input impedance scope (FET input) you should be able to measure about 100V from the setup in Exp B. Try charging your cap with this. Can someone try the 'human capacitor charging' experiment in the middle of a field away from AC power sources and note any differences. Does anyone know how the Electro-Magnetic-Pulse weapons (as used by the US Police) work? They seem to be constructed in a 400mm x 80mm ish steel tube. I assume that they charge a bank of capacitors and discharge this through a large coil. Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 06:23:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA23014; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:22:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:22:49 -0700 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <285f0cd1.250ae640@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:30:02 -0400 (EDT) Organization: Society for Real Time Sender: chuck@samd.atl.s2systems.com From: Charlie Hodgson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Strange Lights in Turkey Resent-Message-ID: <"Qt_Tx1.0.Vd5.egFtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11967 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 10-Sep-99 RoConroy@aol.com wrote: > I just finished reading "The Rift" by Walter J. Williams and another > book which I think was called "8.4". Both were fictional novels about > another New Madrid, Missouri earthquake. Both gave historical descriptions > of the old quake and they both mentioned lights, dead fish, and temperature > variations. The thought is that the strains within the earth are causing > some kind of energy release. They also mentioned that the animals seemed to > go nuts. Bob Bob, I had an interesting experience in Missouri (Lake of the Ozarks area) in 1992. I don't want to get into it now, but is 'The Rift' about rifts in space-time, in Missouri? How did the quake play a part? Thanks, Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 06:25:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA24126; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:25:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:25:47 -0700 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <37DC1D3D.90591BFA@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:33:04 -0400 (EDT) Organization: Society for Real Time Sender: chuck@samd.atl.s2systems.com From: Charlie Hodgson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Earthquake machine - is this for real? Resent-Message-ID: <"pY84t2.0.ou5.QjFtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11968 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 12-Sep-99 D Adams wrote: > TESLA EARTHQUAKE MACHINE, SIMPLIFIED. > Simplified? From what I understand of the the device, it more-or-less works like hitting a hammer on the ground at a given frequency. The idea is that each 'blow', when timed to coincide with the return wave of the previous blow(s), will cause the energy to build up. It's purported that Tesla nearly leveled some buildings in NYC using this device. Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 06:26:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA24472; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:26:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:26:30 -0700 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <37DC1D3D.90591BFA@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:33:47 -0400 (EDT) Organization: Society for Real Time Sender: chuck@samd.atl.s2systems.com From: Charlie Hodgson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Earthquake machine - is this for real? Resent-Message-ID: <"2mW5w2.0.H-5.6kFtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11969 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 12-Sep-99 D Adams wrote: > TESLA EARTHQUAKE MACHINE, SIMPLIFIED. > Simplified? From what I understand of the the device, it more-or-less works like hitting a hammer on the ground at a given frequency. The idea is that each 'blow', when timed to coincide with the return wave of the previous blow(s), will cause the energy to build up. It's purported that Tesla nearly leveled some buildings in NYC using this device. Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 06:27:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA24666; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:27:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:27:00 -0700 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <37DC1D3D.90591BFA@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:34:18 -0400 (EDT) Organization: Society for Real Time Sender: chuck@samd.atl.s2systems.com From: Charlie Hodgson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Earthquake machine - is this for real? Resent-Message-ID: <"o5eSE1.0.J16.akFtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11970 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 12-Sep-99 D Adams wrote: > TESLA EARTHQUAKE MACHINE, SIMPLIFIED. > Simplified? From what I understand of the the device, it more-or-less works like hitting a hammer on the ground at a given frequency. The idea is that each 'blow', when timed to coincide with the return wave of the previous blow(s), will cause the energy to build up. It's purported that Tesla nearly leveled some buildings in NYC using this device. Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 06:28:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA26496; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:28:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:28:29 -0700 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <37DC1D3D.90591BFA@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:35:45 -0400 (EDT) Organization: Society for Real Time Sender: chuck@samd.atl.s2systems.com From: Charlie Hodgson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Earthquake machine - is this for real? Resent-Message-ID: <"Jwxx83.0.vT6.zlFtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11971 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 12-Sep-99 D Adams wrote: > TESLA EARTHQUAKE MACHINE, SIMPLIFIED. > Simplified? From what I understand of the the device, it more-or-less works like hitting a hammer on the ground at a given frequency. The idea is that each 'blow', when timed to coincide with the return wave of the previous blow(s), will cause the energy to build up. It's purported that Tesla nearly leveled some buildings in NYC using this device. Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 06:39:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA31161; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:39:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:39:16 -0700 Message-ID: <37DCFCD4.4C43D3B@harti.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:32:04 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: New MFVC and intersting coil tests...scalar waves ? X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"W3n2v.0.jc7.4wFtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11972 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > As I had mentioned before I had tried the test they outlined to produce > current flow through a magnetic path into an LED which did not work. > I am not impressed with what they have to say. I also tried this the last weekend with up to 38 Volts DC on 2 outer SN plates and measured the DC voltage between the 1 Sn plate and the Cu plate seperated with just a sheet of paper in between it in a stacked permanent magnet configuration with iron back flux clamp, but I also did only get the usual 100 to 150 mVolts output with NO big current to drive an LED ! So this way it does not seem to work. If the ATGROUP (NU-Energy systems) does not tell us, how this works and someone would be able to reproduce their results, this concept is no good way to waste the research time. Thus I would better invest time to investigate into the Clepo battery, which works without magnets at all and so saves production costs. The Clepo Zn-Cu battery just works with a solid state electrolyt and does not run down the metals. It is claimed to be an eternal battery. Stacking these Clepo type batteries will also give enough power to run an LED and even more, if it is build big enough ! If the claim will validate, that it does not run down the metals, this will be also a great new technology. 2. I also did try another experiment at the weekend: I had a copper coil with about 1500 windings and R = 9 ohm. Inside this coil with 3 cm diameter air-core I did put another iron wire coil with about 60 windings and the iron wire diameter was about 1.5 mm. Now this Iron wire coil acts as an iron core of the copper coil and had about 3 Ohms of total wire resistance. Parrallel to the copper coil I did put my 1 uF cap Siemens MKH across and then switched an about 20 Volts pulse across the iron wire "core" coil. Now the copper coil induced an exponential decreasing "ringing" burst-pulse with about 300 Hz ringing frequency at the cap. Peek to peek voltage of the initial induction pulse was about 6 Volts inside the copper coil. So this way it can be seen, that also modulating the Remanenz B field of the iron core via a transversal current (which normally does not produce any induction voltage in the copper coil due to its 90 degrees relationship) DOES produce a d(phi)/dt and so induce a voltage pulse inside the copper coil. This could be used for parametrical resonance effects and might play an inportant role inside the Cooler converter. 3. Curiously I also changed the side of the input pulse to the copper coil and put the 1 uF cap accross the iron core wire coil and I also saw there an induction pulse, but which was totally different in shape ! At the iron core coil I got just a positive or negative voltage pulse (depending on how I hooked up the scope to the cap) with very little ringing, when I removed the DC power to the copper coil via openening the contact and thus striking an arc inside the air. This reminded me much of my older Newman experiments, but also here should be no induction voltage to be seen, cause the iron core is at 90 degrees to the copper coils field. Opening the contact from the copper coil without a spark did not produce any voltage pulse inside the iron core coil ! That was and still is pretty mysterious to me. Maybe here are some kind of scalar waves at play ?? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 07:55:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA20827; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:54:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:54:42 -0700 Message-ID: <19990913144440.33075.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.254.227.89] From: "Timothy Flytcher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Earthquake machine - is this for real? Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:44:39 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"9v7n11.0.J55.o0Htt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11973 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >On 12-Sep-99 D Adams wrote: > > TESLA EARTHQUAKE MACHINE, SIMPLIFIED. > > > >Simplified? From what I understand of the the device, >it more-or-less works like hitting a hammer on the >ground at a given frequency. The idea is that each >'blow', when timed to coincide with the return wave >of the previous blow(s), will cause the energy to >build up. It's purported that Tesla nearly leveled >some buildings in NYC using this device. > >Charlie > Well kinda, Tesla gave the analogy of pushing a child on a swing... you just need a small push at the right time... Tesla claimed he could bring down a bridge or building within minutes with his pocket sized device.... it all works with harmonics! Maybe that's not the right word... because harmonics deals with sound and his worked at a very low frequency.. like 3-20 per second... I have the book... Timothy... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 09:22:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA24133; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:22:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:22:36 -0700 Message-ID: <37DD24C2.D16C835D@harti.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:22:26 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , Free Energy , Ben Saucer Subject: Re: Human power source charging cap ! :) References: <3.0.6.16.19990912213039.222ff562@earthlink.net> <19990913152016.AAA6511@mail.zebra.net@bsaucer.mobile.global.slb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZY-yP2.0.uu5.CJItt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11974 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ben Saucer schrieb: > > At 11:24 AM 9/13/99 +0200, you wrote: > > > >Hi All, > > > >I just used a normal 1 uF non electrolytic capacitor > >Siemens MKH type 1 uF, 63 Volts max. > > > >Then in series with the cap at the left and right side > >just one 1N4007 diode. > >Then I just touch the ends of the diodes ! > >No TMB metals with it connected or anything else ! > > > > Do you touch the ends to each other, or to your fingers? Just hold each end in my fingers, one with the right hand and the other with the left hand, so the human body is between the circuit ends, but it also works if touching both diodes with just one hand, .i.e. 2 fingers. > > Do you discharge them through the LED through the diodes, or without? No, just discharge the cap with an external LED briefly connected to the cap. > > Ben Saucer > e-mail: bsaucer@zebra.net > web page: www.zebra.net/~bsaucer > ICQ: 20610314 -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 10:00:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA07530; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:00:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:00:25 -0700 Message-Id: <199909131703.OAA05694@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:01:55 -3 Subject: Re: New MFVC and intersting coil tests...scalar waves ? Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <37DCFCD4.4C43D3B@harti.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Resent-Message-ID: <"nGiCH1.0.Zr1.fsItt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11975 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > The Clepo Zn-Cu battery just works with a solid state electrolyt > and does not run down the metals. It is claimed to be an eternal > battery. > Stacking these Clepo type batteries will also give enough power to run > an LED and even more, if it is build big enough ! > If the claim will validate, that it does not run down the metals, this > will be also a great new technology. Where can we get more info about these batteries ? > > 2. I also did try another experiment at the weekend: > > I had a copper coil with about 1500 windings and R = 9 ohm. > Inside this coil with 3 cm diameter air-core I did put another > iron wire coil with about 60 windings and the iron wire > diameter was about 1.5 mm. > > Now this Iron wire coil acts as an iron core of the copper > coil and had about 3 Ohms of total wire resistance. > Parrallel to the copper coil I did put my > 1 uF cap Siemens MKH across and then switched an > about 20 Volts pulse across the iron wire "core" coil. > Now the copper coil induced an exponential decreasing "ringing" > burst-pulse with about 300 Hz ringing frequency at the cap. 300 Hz can be the resonant frequency of your Coil-Capacitor circuit. Have you measured the coil's inductance ? > Peek to peek voltage of the initial induction pulse was about > 6 Volts inside the copper coil. > > So this way it can be seen, that also modulating the Remanenz B field > of the iron core via a transversal current (which normally does not > produce any induction voltage in the copper coil due to its 90 degrees > relationship) DOES produce a d(phi)/dt and so induce a voltage > pulse inside the copper coil. > > This could be used for parametrical resonance effects > and might play an inportant role inside the Cooler converter. > > > 3. Curiously I also changed the side of the input pulse to the > copper coil and put the 1 uF cap accross the iron core wire coil > and I also saw there an induction pulse, but which was totally different > in shape ! Maybe due to the lower resonant frequency ... > At the iron core coil I got just a positive or negative voltage pulse > (depending on how I hooked up the scope to the cap) with very little > ringing, when I removed the DC power to the copper coil via openening > the contact and thus striking an arc inside the air. I guess the ringing effect is just due to LC resonance. > This reminded me much of my older Newman experiments, but also here > should be no induction voltage to be seen, cause the iron core is at 90 > degrees to the copper coils field. > > Opening the contact from the copper coil without a spark did not produce > any voltage pulse inside the iron core coil ! How did you get it ? Using a MOSFET ? > That was and still is pretty mysterious to me. > > Maybe here are some kind of scalar waves at play ?? > > Regards, Stefan. > Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br ------------------------------------------- Get paid to surf the WEB ! Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet ! http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608 ------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 10:13:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA14438; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:13:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:13:26 -0700 Message-ID: <01BEFE45.BD703AC0@pl-ts06-ppp12.pacific.net.id> From: "Paul E. Anderson" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Earthquake machine - is this for real? Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:11:48 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BEFE45.BD796280" Resent-Message-ID: <"NsmlB1.0.OX3.r2Jtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11976 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEFE45.BD796280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Timothy Flytcher [SMTP:flytch@hotmail.com] Sent: 1999 Sep 13, Monday 21:45 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Earthquake machine - is this for real? >On 12-Sep-99 D Adams wrote: > > TESLA EARTHQUAKE MACHINE, SIMPLIFIED. > > > >Simplified? From what I understand of the the device, >it more-or-less works like hitting a hammer on the >ground at a given frequency. The idea is that each >'blow', when timed to coincide with the return wave >of the previous blow(s), will cause the energy to >build up. It's purported that Tesla nearly leveled >some buildings in NYC using this device. > >Charlie > Well kinda, Tesla gave the analogy of pushing a child on a swing... you just need a small push at the right time... Tesla claimed he could bring down a bridge or building within minutes with his pocket sized device.... it all works with harmonics! Maybe that's not the right word... because harmonics deals with sound and his worked at a very low frequency.. like 3-20 per second... I have the book... Timothy... Go get the book "Hammer of Eden" It talks about a piece of equipment I used for years. Truth is we never saw anything like what you are seeking. The problem with the ground is that it absorbs too much energy to build up the necessary power for affecting faultlines. Neat technology, though, and if anyone here needs one I could probably get you one for less than a million USD.. :'} ... cheers [Paul E. Anderson] ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEFE45.BD796280 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjERAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5j b20AAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2lt by5jb20AU01UUABmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbQAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAL5VwEEgAEAKwAAAFJFOiBFYXJ0aHF1YWtlIG1hY2hpbmUgLSBpcyB0aGlzIGZvciBy ZWFsPwB8DgEFgAMADgAAAM8HCQAOAAAACwAwAAIAKgEBIIADAA4AAADPBwkADgAAAAcAKQACAB8B AQmAAQAhAAAANzNCNjNDMDcwQUZFQkUxMTkxQTEyMkE2RjA1Qjc1MTEAFgcBA5AGAOwIAAAhAAAA CwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AKCdFRAL /r4BHgBwAAEAAAArAAAAUkU6IEVhcnRocXVha2UgbWFjaGluZSAtIGlzIHRoaXMgZm9yIHJlYWw/ AAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvv4LD/TxRbfhajcR07zbREVTVAAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAA AB4AHwwBAAAAFwAAAHhwbG9yZXJAcGFjaWZpYy5uZXQuaWQAAAMABhDxmmY+AwAHEKMEAAAeAAgQ AQAAAGUAAAAtLS0tLU9SSUdJTkFMTUVTU0FHRS0tLS0tRlJPTTpUSU1PVEhZRkxZVENIRVJTTVRQ OkZMWVRDSEBIT1RNQUlMQ09NU0VOVDoxOTk5U0VQMTMsTU9OREFZMjE6NDVUTzpGUkVFAAAAAAIB CRABAAAAuQUAALUFAAB0CAAATFpGdQMRXDM/AAoBAwH3AqQD4wIAcHJ4cTIgBxMCgwBQDuZjQmgK wHNldDAPpn0TCoAIyCA7CW8yNTVLAoAKgXYIkHdrC4BkGjQMYGMAUAsDbGkzBjYBQAtgbmcxMDNW MwqgA2B0BZB0C6QxqDYgLReSTwUQZwuAhwdABdAHkHNhZ2UXkz8KogqCFqQBQAsEFqZpLQgxNDQV 4WkxODBHAUAM0BszYiBGA2E6nQyDYhFgB2EWsGh5HHAYbHl0EPAEkCBbUyBNVFA6Zh3jQGiXFrAA wAMQLgWgbV0ZNc8cYAZgAjAcxzE5IWAGUTJwIUAzLAXQAiBkYUEdsDIxOjQ1H/dUDm8cxwNQCeFy Zy1sPkAHkBSwBGAfoh/4dWIGahbRHMdSRTogRQMKwB2QcXVha2UgTQDBaAuAJ8AtIAQAIL8dkCiB AhAFwAlwB0A/GT+fGkoVpBBDDAEpoz5PA6CoMTItIaEtIXFED6B1IlBtBCB3FqIcwCxEIEEusFRF U0xBJyBBAFJUSFFVQUtFgQXQQUNISU5FIgAAU0lNUExJRkm4RUQuLlcsNSw1Uwdw5wtQBpAIkGQ/ HHMt4BEAsQVASSB1FNAEkHMBkPEU0CBvZiihJ8A1EgEA0RRwY2UsLDVpBUAEYH0JcC0FsCSQGIEt 4AWwaz8EIBWgJ7EoEAJAC4BnIP5hOBAtsAeABcACIDUCLDW/CcAIYDSxM+E4oBgQdgnwxyQSJ4AJ 8GN5Lh1ANSH+aQEAOKAogzPhKVAQ8Cw14icCYG93JyIAM8A68cc4UAeANMB0byAFoAuAbmM8ES3g NnBoNQMJcHTzCHADoHdhOuAsNTTlD2CPNaEIYAQgPaIocyk98fMDEAMgY2FCADU0CfAEkM5nHbA+ wCw1YnUDEDTARHVwO7BJdCcEIHDdCHBwCRE+kjPSVAeQC2C+ICgwCsAd4DfANaBlNyD7CzEsU3MD cCfARLM4YQQg8wuAB7BZQzQgAJA4cSiz9zWUMTYsNUMRARWgOYYplt0psldHkAMgFLJhIgBGlN5n QJE1AwBwB0BvQ/E04f1FoHMoETiCKAFE4TkxOKBLA+EWIC5RQCB5CGAg/mpCAAVBKaMoMD6RUNEA wN9C4U+iOmI/0xgAaFOhB3F7UUJGlGMLYT6CNSEFoHXtROFiBRA4cWQ9wFCyKZT9VlFkGMA00AXA SJY/c0kx+m0LgHUWwC3RP5IowkXQ7mMnsAVAAJB6PpFKVVFC/zZxUwIplDd0WaQKwARgAwDYY3Mh BdAiYGI1MjPg3UVxbhawU7k3cWRRQl4Q70MUXTdSBTwhbFmFSEA6Mn9O4VWhKIE3clKSOoI64HKf R0E9wDsZO7A30zMtAdD/QZAeMSmUETAFoBTQUUEplM80EBEAToUG4G9rZucdVb9m5wjQAEEMMioK CoBHPtDHGMBTpGgiICJIONU08PJFAQBuImcVU6EHQDeh9wGgCGA6gnAIkDXQNNI7QX8FIAeAAjA0 AhEwNMApAnn1RwFzaIZyWVA/sGMCJ8D3KDBj8VDgYQfgAHAd8E/TvzfTM8NRggrAJ8ARMGUUsddR MGiVQXNvAmBlM6E/ltc6BTxmW7JiSEByd+A+sf0+0G0VED+wQ71IhEUBNQP/KDA10BiRZBFF0HIA BcApAi5hASAW0ThiZkMgbHS/FaAoMHD2B8BTkgWQaF6w/08iIgAdkAhgVCAiADSiBpD/csICIDgB BJByEgmABCB/0v80EFX0daIBoEcxKZRrklGC/3/SKQI3IzyRULJZIELgQeAZA6BVUzEgO7A6J1w+ fSmUZuceETRhTIpbULd8oScgO7BBNEMCIF0DMP8dIAxAEWBSBYkfaeIaERal/UyZX4wfjS+OP45g awVacdJZCGEgUAUQdjPgNeA/HHEJ4CcgH2I6YlQwdHDQOi8vd5JALh85TIoFEfEAlDAAAAADABAQ AAAAAAMAERAAAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcwoCEHfQr+vgFAAAgwoCEHfQr+vgELAACACCAGAAAAAADA AAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAAAwAFgAgg BgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeACWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAA AAQAAAA4LjAAAwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAC+ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAA AAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwAygAggBgAA AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEA AAAAAAAAHgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQ4AIIAYAAAAA AMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAA s10= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEFE45.BD796280-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 10:33:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA24618; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:33:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:33:01 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-3-dyn13.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.191.182.76] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:32:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <025d01befe0d$4871cc80$9d4a66d1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" , Subject: Re: New MFVC and intersting coil tests...scalar waves ? Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:59:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"MmoVi.0.Q06.CLJtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11977 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan, Interesting experiment! Tim Vaughn and I looked at this area quite a while back. This was used by Fleming in early radio wave detectors. >2. I also did try another experiment at the weekend: > >I had a copper coil with about 1500 windings and R = 9 ohm. >Inside this coil with 3 cm diameter air-core I did put another >iron wire coil with about 60 windings and the iron wire >diameter was about 1.5 mm. So the iron core was at right angles to the copper one, as you say later? > >Now this Iron wire coil acts as an iron core of the copper >coil and had about 3 Ohms of total wire resistance. >Parrallel to the copper coil I did put my >1 uF cap Siemens MKH across and then switched an >about 20 Volts pulse across the iron wire "core" coil. >Now the copper coil induced an exponential decreasing "ringing" >burst-pulse with about 300 Hz ringing frequency at the cap. > >Peek to peek voltage of the initial induction pulse was about >6 Volts inside the copper coil. > >So this way it can be seen, that also modulating the Remanenz B field >of the iron core via a transversal current (which normally does not >produce any induction voltage in the copper coil due to its 90 degrees >relationship) DOES produce a d(phi)/dt and so induce a voltage >pulse inside the copper coil. Yes this principle was used in this patent US2883605 MODULATOR H.T. Mortimer very directly, as a second harmonic modulator and could easily be adapted as a parametric transformer. There are refinements to this, and in a second patent Mortimer uses grain-oriented steel for an AC control device that uses a very small V to control a large one. This could also be adapted for a very efficient (maybe OU?) parametric transformer. In order to get it to OU you would have to reduce the current needed in the iron core. >This could be used for parametrical resonance effects >and might play an inportant role inside the Cooler converter. Yes this was also suggested by a German guy on the lists about a year ago, I have the post somewhere... I think his name was Schenk. > > >3. Curiously I also changed the side of the input pulse to the >copper coil and put the 1 uF cap accross the iron core wire coil >and I also saw there an induction pulse, but which was totally different >in shape ! > >At the iron core coil I got just a positive or negative voltage pulse >(depending on how I hooked up the scope to the cap) with very little >ringing, >when I removed the DC >power to the copper coil via openening the contact and thus striking an >arc >inside the air. >This reminded me much of my older Newman experiments, but also here >should be no induction voltage >to be seen, cause the iron core is at 90 degrees to the copper coils >field. > >Opening the contact from the copper coil without a spark did not produce >any voltage pulse inside the iron core coil ! > >That was and still is pretty mysterious to me. Yes it is hard to explain, the first possiblity of course is simply residual induction, which is what I suspect. Then you get into stranger things. > >Maybe here are some kind of scalar waves at play ?? > Maybe. Or maybe the copper coil acts as a flux gate to the iron core, in which case you might have a change in L in the iron core when you power the copper one? Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 10:43:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA30001; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:42:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:42:49 -0700 Message-ID: <37DD382B.79680A82@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:45:15 -0700 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Earthquake machine - is this for real? References: <19990913144440.33075.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gC3dc3.0.XK7.PUJtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11978 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fascinating! Timothy Flytcher wrote: > >On 12-Sep-99 D Adams wrote: > > > TESLA EARTHQUAKE MACHINE, SIMPLIFIED. > > > > > > >Simplified? From what I understand of the the device, > >it more-or-less works like hitting a hammer on the > >ground at a given frequency. The idea is that each > >'blow', when timed to coincide with the return wave > >of the previous blow(s), will cause the energy to > >build up. It's purported that Tesla nearly leveled > >some buildings in NYC using this device. > > > >Charlie > > > > Well kinda, Tesla gave the analogy of pushing a child on a swing... you just > need a small push at the right time... Tesla claimed he could bring down a > bridge or building within minutes with his pocket sized device.... it all > works with harmonics! Maybe that's not the right word... because harmonics > deals with sound and his worked at a very low frequency.. like 3-20 per > second... > I have the book... > Timothy... > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 10:43:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA30117; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:43:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:43:16 -0700 Message-ID: <37DD3848.393A45EE@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:45:44 -0700 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Earthquake machine - is this for real? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bstXu2.0.UM7.qUJtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11979 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Charlie Hodgson wrote: > On 12-Sep-99 D Adams wrote: > > TESLA EARTHQUAKE MACHINE, SIMPLIFIED. > > > > Simplified? From what I understand of the the device, > it more-or-less works like hitting a hammer on the > ground at a given frequency. The idea is that each > 'blow', when timed to coincide with the return wave > of the previous blow(s), will cause the energy to > build up. It's purported that Tesla nearly leveled > some buildings in NYC using this device. > > Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 10:43:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA30333; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:43:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:43:43 -0700 Message-ID: <37DD385B.DD6096CF@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:46:03 -0700 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Earthquake machine - is this for real? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"U7KHf.0.sP7.FVJtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11980 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: thanks for the info Charlie! Charlie Hodgson wrote: > On 12-Sep-99 D Adams wrote: > > TESLA EARTHQUAKE MACHINE, SIMPLIFIED. > > > > Simplified? From what I understand of the the device, > it more-or-less works like hitting a hammer on the > ground at a given frequency. The idea is that each > 'blow', when timed to coincide with the return wave > of the previous blow(s), will cause the energy to > build up. It's purported that Tesla nearly leveled > some buildings in NYC using this device. > > Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 11:13:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA10411; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:12:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:12:48 -0700 Message-ID: <37DD3F17.F1EE87C4@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:14:47 -0700 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: MEHMET - Re: Last year I purchased a NEUROPHONE References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bWUZw1.0.aY2.VwJtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11981 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Mehmet, thanks for the reply, I've been hoping to hear from people who had both good and bad experiences with the device. When you shipped it back, did they have any explanation as to why it did not work for you? MKSBoysal@aol.com wrote: > << Just wanted to let you know guys that last year I did purchased a > Flanagan's NEUROPHONE which cost me $800.00 thinking greatly that the device > would work, which I had some unusual plans for it. But most unfortunately > NEUROPHONE didn't work on me at all, I got 0 results out of it. I played with > it about a months I could hear the audio through my ears but nothing > internally in the had so I returned the device back. I also opened to see the > electronic chips and components inside of the gizmo but it was sealed with > some kind of black epoxy so I left it alone. > > Mehmet.>> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 11:22:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA13715; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:22:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:22:18 -0700 From: Pepthewep@aol.com Message-ID: <4c6e4ddb.250e9aae@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:21:34 EDT Subject: Re: Strange Lights in Turkey To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Resent-Message-ID: <"3teY32.0.3M3.P3Ktt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11983 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Oh, come on, Charlie, tell us what happened in Missouri!!!! I live in Indiana so, it might be something I need to know! PULEEEESE!! Barb c. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 11:22:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA13568; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:22:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:22:02 -0700 Message-ID: <000401befe14$8f031ee0$b5d4fea9@hal-9000> Reply-To: "dwenbert" From: "dwenbert" To: Subject: Re: Altruism ? Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:19:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"NJwuq3.0.qJ3.93Ktt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11982 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Luddites: What pure unadulterated CRAP!: The fact that you people think like this is why The Establishment is so successful at treating us like Cattle. >Go ahead and harness your shit water power...heh heh heh. >You just made my point. Why put our hands in shit to be altruistic. Let's invent >and we won't have to depend on one another. >> It all depends on you idea of wealth... all of the wealth people I know are >> NOT nice people {to say the least!!!} .... >> Me ... I'm a minimalist... My house is 633 square feet... and will be totals >> solar and wind powered soon (No, not "off the grid", but close) >> > > Altruism can not work ... for if you are wealthy enough to give some >> >away you probably cased more damage than you could make up for... >> >Yours is the "zero sum game" philosophy, where wealth can only be had by >> >stealing success from others. >> > > OR... you could just do like our government... muck things up so that it >> > > takes more man hours to do anything... than take the credit for all the >> > > people you employ :) >> >Or... take the "altrusim plague" seriously, and go become like a burning >> >pine needle which drifts into the next unburned acre during the forest >> >fire. The value of any civilization is determined by the aggregate quantity of energy it uses, multiplied by the amount of raw natural resources it converts into useful material. In a sense, the same can be said for the individual. The more wealth one creates, the more value that person has to the rest of us. The concept of "niceness" doesn't enter into it; although I would submit that by and large poor people are a *LOT* "Less NIce" than rich people. Altruism is a great thing, and I believe EVERYONE should go create the first $1,000 to start it off with; if you don't have it, then get off your fat butt and go CREATE it. ONLY WEALTH CREATION MAKES ALTRUISM/GENEROSITY MEANINGFUL. Beware the naked man who would offer you the shirt off his back. "Minimalism" is the philosophy of decay and death. It is the surrender to entropy; Capitulation to Evil. It is good for Me that You reduce your consumption, leaving more for the rest of Us, but You have no Right to expect Any of Us to do the same.........It is meaningless sacrifice. INSTEAD, worry about what you PRODUCE, not what you consume. That way, instead of splitting a shrinking pie, we can PAY YOU for a piece of the LARGER one, and Your Worth as a human being will be enhanced as a result, raising the total value of our civilization. The Waste-to-Energy Cogeneration and Solar Dynamic power systems, Multiphase Fecal Bioreactor, and Urine Peroxide Fuel Cell I am building into my house are not being installed so that You can have more gasoline to drive around in your new Jeep Grand Cherokee (or your '67 VW beetle), criticizing the rest of us. They aren't being built to preserve the environment for the benefit of the lower forms of life, present company included. I am building them to save me $350 per month in utilities bills, and, hopefully, to get rich in the process (of proving out and marketing such systems). Next time you stand there in front of that porcelain god admiring the coreolis force in that flush, consider the fact that you've just wasted 300cc or so of a potent electrolyte that can easily be converted to DC power, and that You Will Continue To Do So Several Times A Day For The Rest Of Your Life. THEN tell me how much of a Conservationist you are and how Minimalism is your best philosophy to save the planet..... Give it up....Its not what you SAVE, its how much you PRODUCE.... What pure unadulterated CRAP! :-) Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 12:16:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA02578; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:16:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:16:07 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:16:01 -1000 Subject: Re: Altruism ? From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909131516400.SM00137@[192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"VYPGM.0.7e.trKtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11984 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave - I'm astonished to see these two comments in the same message. First you tell us: > The fact that you people think like this is why The Establishment is so > successful at treating us like Cattle. and then: > Give it up....Its not what you SAVE, its how much you PRODUCE.... If you propose that the value of a person's life is in how much they produce, then how could you even *distinguish* such an existence from that of cattle?! It's practically the definition! Even if you are just being facetious, I don't get the joke - or perhaps I just have a damaged sense of humor, which is entirely possible. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 12:46:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA13230; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:46:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:46:11 -0700 Message-ID: <37DD4F48.EAE3DF5F@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:23:52 -0700 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Earthquake machine - is this for real? References: <01BEFE45.BD703AC0@pl-ts06-ppp12.pacific.net.id> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SOB7a2.0.cE3.2ILtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11985 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: what was the equipment that you used for years, Paul? Paul E. Anderson wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Timothy Flytcher [SMTP:flytch@hotmail.com] > Sent: 1999 Sep 13, Monday 21:45 > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: RE: Earthquake machine - is this for real? > > >On 12-Sep-99 D Adams wrote: > > > TESLA EARTHQUAKE MACHINE, SIMPLIFIED. > > > > > > >Simplified? From what I understand of the the device, > >it more-or-less works like hitting a hammer on the > >ground at a given frequency. The idea is that each > >'blow', when timed to coincide with the return wave > >of the previous blow(s), will cause the energy to > >build up. It's purported that Tesla nearly leveled > >some buildings in NYC using this device. > > > >Charlie > > > > Well kinda, Tesla gave the analogy of pushing a child on a swing... you just > need a small push at the right time... Tesla claimed he could bring down a > bridge or building within minutes with his pocket sized device.... it all > works with harmonics! Maybe that's not the right word... because harmonics > deals with sound and his worked at a very low frequency.. like 3-20 per > second... > I have the book... > Timothy... > > Go get the book "Hammer of Eden" > It talks about a piece of equipment I used for years. > Truth is we never saw anything like what you are seeking. > The problem with the ground is that it absorbs too much energy to > build up the necessary power for affecting faultlines. > Neat technology, though, and if anyone here needs one I could probably > get you one for less than a million USD.. :'} > ... > cheers > > [Paul E. Anderson] > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 13:27:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA28139; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:24:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:24:45 -0700 From: "Martin" To: Subject: Re: Earthquake machine - is this for real? Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:16:40 +0200 Message-ID: <01befe24$e3ad0f40$739f22c4@Martin.icon.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"xj4HK3.0.Zt6.DsLtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11986 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi >> I have the book... >> Timothy... Is that the book Tesla's Earthquake Generator ? Regards Martin http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/ _______________________________________________ We have enough gun control. What we need is idiot and criminal control. _______________________________________________ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 13:37:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA00393; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:37:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:37:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:37:00 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Altruism Virus In-Reply-To: <004a01befd40$b2f83da0$66b6bfd1@w7o9k8> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"405Mt1.0.26.m1Mtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11987 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, Fred Epps wrote: > I hope it works, but I am still skeptical. Personally I think that any model > that doesn't take into account both altruism and self-interest is likely to > fail or be destructive. The chain letter is too greedy, and your idea is too > altruistic. Huh? Only the instigator is altruistic. All of the later "plague victims" have entered into a deal where they agree to pay back a loan at 200%. The main difference between the "Altruism plague" and a student loan or real-estate mortgage is that the interest doesn't go to any bank, instead it goes to the loan-recipients of the future, and so the system grows exponentially. > I can give myself as an example here. I have put more than a thousand > dollars as well as several years of consistent effort into building a > working free energy device. When I succeed in doing it-- and I will-- I > intend to sell this device in some way, either by kits, licensing, sales of > a downloadable pdf file, or a book. I am not going to give it away. We'll see. If "free energy" is a conscious being, it may forever refuse to deal with anyone who intends to sell the "gift" they've been given. > I believe in balance and integration of altruism > and self interest, not the denial of either. Those that are too selfless > cannot protect their own interests and often do not have the means to > succeed. Those who are too selfish destroy those around them. Think through the implications of the "Altruism virus". I think they are too richly intertwined to simply dismiss at face value. It might be wet, green, and have spots, but perhaps it's not a frog at all. > >Yeah, like Hubbard, and Hendershot, and Moray, and Tesla, and Schauberger, > and Floyd Sweet, and Greg Watson... you get my drift. > > OK, let's break it down step by step. I'm doing this from memory so I may > have some some details wrong. > > !) Hubbard was 19 when he invented his device. He did not maintain control > of it but sold it to the first fat cat who came along. It's unlikely he got > the money. He went on to become a bootlegger. No business model there, just > greed. I thought that "sensible inventors" are supposed to sell their ideas to rich businessmen and then retire. Well, many inventors believe this. > 2) Hendershot could not get his device to work for anyone else. He had > nothing to sell. > > 3) Moray was genuinely sabotaged. However this came about because he was > trying to get every expert in the world to agree that his device worked, > instead of paying attention to the potential consumers of his device, and > building one at a time to sell to people in the neighborhoods of Salt Lake > City. This is a work of egotism, not business. > > 4) Tesla was so unrealistic in his aims that J.P Morgan was justified in > pulling the plug on him, which was his right anyway since he was paying the > bills. His world power system would have been an environmental disaster > anyway. He was a great genius but he allowed himself to be coopted by the > wealthy. This was because he had zero business sense. > > 5) I don't know the story on Schauberger. Signed away the rights, died of a broken heart when he realized what had happened. > 6) Floyd Sweet. Another case where if he had just built the things one at a > time and sold them to interested parties he could have made some money. Why > didn't he? Well as I recall he was too broke to build them. Get a job, > Floyd :-) > > 7) Greg Watson actually had the best plan of all of them. The idea of > selling kits is totally reasonable. However he should have not let his > enthusiasm carry him away and he should have sent it to a third party lab > like Scott Little's first and had it validated first before he tried to sell > it. Getting sucked into the psychology of the lists was his biggest mistake. > That's assuming he had a device that worked. > > So, hmm, do we have a failure of the business model here? No, we have a > failure to APPLY the business model. These inventors collectively violated > every tenet of business. To wit: > > 1) Have a product that works. > 2) Get a second opinion about whether it works. > 3) Don't try to sell vaporware. > 3) Start small. > 4) Maintain control of your finances. > 5) Be realistic. > 6) Know your market. > > Common sense---- to paraphrase what Gandhi said about western civilization, > "It's a good idea, somebody should try it" :-) LOL! > >> Altruism is based on being wealthy enough to give enough to make a > >> difference. > > > >No, this particular "altruism" is based on CREATING people who can become > >wealthy enough to go out and CREATE others like them. The "Altruism virus" is not altruistic at all. If it takes off, it will become an all-consuming fire that burns the world "up" instead of down. How many people would gladly avoid bank-loans if the interest went to a good cause instead? Hey, how about a "weird science" altruism virus? Take this $10,000, do whatever you want with it, but then pay back $10,000 twice, giving it to two other needy researchers who are trustworthy and will actually follow through on repayment. (If no such trustworthy researchers exist, then that's a pretty good reason for all of us to remain permanently stuck in zero-funding hell, no?) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 13:52:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA05927; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:52:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:52:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:51:48 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Altruism Virus? FREE ENERGY VIRUS!!! In-Reply-To: <37DC0857.ABF0DAC0@microtec.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"RZLbJ3.0.OS1.lFMtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11988 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, patrick tremblay wrote: > What's the problem with you. Huh? Maybe you should read what the "altruism virus" actually says. Now seriously, if somebody helped you pull yourself up from poverty and attain a non-horrible existence after you promised to pay the "loan" back twice over, would you then renege, and say "fuck them, nobody's forcing me to fork over that much loot?" Would you really? > You can't be too altruistic in life, both total selfish > greed and total altruism are DEATH POLES. Who's being altruistic? (I mean, besides the one who starts the "virus" ball rolling.) > We must find something in the middle or: > > Total chaos awaits us in the completely wild selfish greed. > > Boring Status Quo awaits us in the total altruistic form. Please show me where "total altruism" appears in the "altruism virus" process. Me thinks you do complain too much. Is "altruism virus" some sort of personal affront? > And why do you talk about those loosers. Like if you want to defend your > point stating loosers. > > This just proves me that altruism is for loosers...heh heh heh!!!! Ah. Lets see. FREENRG-L is no more. All of SCIENCE HOBBYIST website is no more. Every single page will be replaced by pages which state that altrusim is for losers, Patrick Trembly says so, with links to your email and any website you have now or in the future. (No, I'm not such an asshole that I'd actually pull that sort of stunt... As far as I know. Lets flip a coin! No, I cannot, because if it came up heads, my personal philosophy would force me to carry out that action with all speed.) > When I want to defend my point, I pick winners. In my opinion, the above philosophy is one of the central diseases of mankind. See: COMPETITION VS. COOPERATION, GOOD VS. EVIL http://www.amasci.com/weird/hevolv.html ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 13:56:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA08145; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:56:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:56:18 -0700 Message-ID: <37DD652F.A215B785@microtec.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:57:19 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Altruism Virus References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"H3jn62.0.A_1.oJMtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11989 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If free energy is a conscious being, and since in this world you get nothing for free. And since it's my belief that nothing can be created nor destroyed. The big question I'd like to ask overunity is: where are you getting your payback ? If we give you 1 watt and you give us back 2, where do you get your other 1 watt back ? I don't think overunity is a Bill Beaty type of guy that gives off energy just for free. There must be a catch somewhere. There must be something in return. And as I was thinking, perhaps the return is in the form of heat. Since all energy comes back to heat. William Beaty wrote: > On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, Fred Epps wrote: > > > I hope it works, but I am still skeptical. Personally I think that any model > > that doesn't take into account both altruism and self-interest is likely to > > fail or be destructive. The chain letter is too greedy, and your idea is too > > altruistic. > > Huh? Only the instigator is altruistic. > > All of the later "plague victims" have entered into a deal where they > agree to pay back a loan at 200%. The main difference between the > "Altruism plague" and a student loan or real-estate mortgage is that the > interest doesn't go to any bank, instead it goes to the loan-recipients of > the future, and so the system grows exponentially. > > > I can give myself as an example here. I have put more than a thousand > > dollars as well as several years of consistent effort into building a > > working free energy device. When I succeed in doing it-- and I will-- I > > intend to sell this device in some way, either by kits, licensing, sales of > > a downloadable pdf file, or a book. I am not going to give it away. > > We'll see. If "free energy" is a conscious being, it may forever refuse > to deal with anyone who intends to sell the "gift" they've been given. > > > I believe in balance and integration of altruism > > and self interest, not the denial of either. Those that are too selfless > > cannot protect their own interests and often do not have the means to > > succeed. Those who are too selfish destroy those around them. > > Think through the implications of the "Altruism virus". I think they are > too richly intertwined to simply dismiss at face value. It might be wet, > green, and have spots, but perhaps it's not a frog at all. > > > >Yeah, like Hubbard, and Hendershot, and Moray, and Tesla, and Schauberger, > > and Floyd Sweet, and Greg Watson... you get my drift. > > > > OK, let's break it down step by step. I'm doing this from memory so I may > > have some some details wrong. > > > > !) Hubbard was 19 when he invented his device. He did not maintain control > > of it but sold it to the first fat cat who came along. It's unlikely he got > > the money. He went on to become a bootlegger. No business model there, just > > greed. > > I thought that "sensible inventors" are supposed to sell their ideas to > rich businessmen and then retire. Well, many inventors believe this. > > > 2) Hendershot could not get his device to work for anyone else. He had > > nothing to sell. > > > > 3) Moray was genuinely sabotaged. However this came about because he was > > trying to get every expert in the world to agree that his device worked, > > instead of paying attention to the potential consumers of his device, and > > building one at a time to sell to people in the neighborhoods of Salt Lake > > City. This is a work of egotism, not business. > > > > 4) Tesla was so unrealistic in his aims that J.P Morgan was justified in > > pulling the plug on him, which was his right anyway since he was paying the > > bills. His world power system would have been an environmental disaster > > anyway. He was a great genius but he allowed himself to be coopted by the > > wealthy. This was because he had zero business sense. > > > > 5) I don't know the story on Schauberger. > > Signed away the rights, died of a broken heart when he realized what had > happened. > > > 6) Floyd Sweet. Another case where if he had just built the things one at a > > time and sold them to interested parties he could have made some money. Why > > didn't he? Well as I recall he was too broke to build them. Get a job, > > Floyd :-) > > > > 7) Greg Watson actually had the best plan of all of them. The idea of > > selling kits is totally reasonable. However he should have not let his > > enthusiasm carry him away and he should have sent it to a third party lab > > like Scott Little's first and had it validated first before he tried to sell > > it. Getting sucked into the psychology of the lists was his biggest mistake. > > That's assuming he had a device that worked. > > > > So, hmm, do we have a failure of the business model here? No, we have a > > failure to APPLY the business model. These inventors collectively violated > > every tenet of business. To wit: > > > > 1) Have a product that works. > > 2) Get a second opinion about whether it works. > > 3) Don't try to sell vaporware. > > 3) Start small. > > 4) Maintain control of your finances. > > 5) Be realistic. > > 6) Know your market. > > > > Common sense---- to paraphrase what Gandhi said about western civilization, > > "It's a good idea, somebody should try it" :-) > > LOL! > > > >> Altruism is based on being wealthy enough to give enough to make a > > >> difference. > > > > > >No, this particular "altruism" is based on CREATING people who can become > > >wealthy enough to go out and CREATE others like them. > > The "Altruism virus" is not altruistic at all. If it takes off, it will > become an all-consuming fire that burns the world "up" instead of down. > How many people would gladly avoid bank-loans if the interest went to a > good cause instead? > > Hey, how about a "weird science" altruism virus? > > Take this $10,000, do whatever you want with it, but then pay back $10,000 > twice, giving it to two other needy researchers who are trustworthy and > will actually follow through on repayment. (If no such trustworthy > researchers exist, then that's a pretty good reason for all of us to > remain permanently stuck in zero-funding hell, no?) > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 14:02:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA12036; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:02:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:02:25 -0700 Message-ID: <000601befe2a$f6a2d2a0$c1e5fea9@hal-9000> Reply-To: "dwenbert" From: "dwenbert" To: Subject: Re: Altruism ? Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:59:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"6zwXn2.0.zx2.WPMtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11990 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick, >I'm astonished to see these two comments in the same message >If you propose that the value of a person's life is in how much they >produce, then how could you even *distinguish* such an existence from that >of cattle?! It's practically the definition! The difference is that [some] humans produce goods and services far beyond their own needs of consumption, that can be of use to the rest of their species. They do it through the application of intellect and volition [labor], not genetically predestined metabolism. There is honor to that productivity, because it is deliberate. To my knowledge, other cows have no use for steak, leather, fertilizer, or methane, and only their very young ever consume their milk. It is, therefor, not especially honorable to be a cow. Our biological and technological wastes, however, CAN be transformed into commodities useful to one another. In the controlled oxidation waste plasma reactor I am building, my household trash (less glass and metal recyclables, which are already separated, and compostable wet food garbage), will be pyrolyzed to hydrogen and methane, and incinerated to generate >100 Kwh per day, enough to run my entire house. I am hoping to get another 50 Kwh/d out of the fecal bioreactor and urine peroxide fuel cells.....Its all just a question of tweaking the chemistry in the right manner........ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 14:04:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA13186; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:04:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:04:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:04:13 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Altruism ? In-Reply-To: <19990912222954.87734.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"plhrF2.0.xD3.FRMtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11991 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, Timothy Flytcher wrote: > So, all my inventions are for me... I use them ... and there not > for sale! All my inventions are for the world, and are on my website. (Nobody need take them seriously, and once they are on the www, the fates can always lead people who need them into accidentally stumbling across them.) > sometimes I think about writing a book... then I think about the hippocrates > in there suv's. I won't even try... I AM rich... but have little money... > how about you? My "model" is leaning towards the main character in Spider Robinson's story "The Magnificent Conspiracy". It's in "Antiomony:" http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0440102359/ (used books) What if the Bill Gates fortune ended up in the hands of a really smart altruist who couldn't escape it? Hey, buy hospitals and work there as a janitor so you can fix up the administration so it does some good. (Or are all 'do-gooders' just self-important fools, same as the honestly selfish people who would screw their own children if it meant some major cash income?) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 14:12:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA16902; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:11:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:11:45 -0700 Message-ID: <37DD68CF.4FEA4D47@microtec.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:12:47 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Altruism Virus References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"u-VoE3.0.y74.GYMtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11992 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Heh heh heh!! How will you get 20 000 dollars back to pay back your loan if it's EVIL and BAD and COLD and CALCULATING to make profits. If everyone had to give and not take. Yes the economy would be wild as you say but it would be disorganised and chaotic even worse then now. We'd end up back at the stone age. About the Give is good and take is bad paraphrase. Imagine the horrors in our universe if matter repelled matter instead of attracting with gravity. All civilisation and solar system and the stars would be destroyed by "White holes". No matter could be attracted together to form complex organisations. The same thing as the "evil" profit gain. Consider the motivation of power and profit as gravity that is organising the civilisation so it won't break appart. Have you ever started to imagine how hard it is to make money ? especially in a competitive world full of savvy. If you demotivate the aspirant millionaire already by giving him a guilt complex about money, you are increasing his chances to fail and are making richer the already filthy rich millionaires. Made my point ? William Beaty wrote: > On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, Fred Epps wrote: > > > I hope it works, but I am still skeptical. Personally I think that any model > > that doesn't take into account both altruism and self-interest is likely to > > fail or be destructive. The chain letter is too greedy, and your idea is too > > altruistic. > > Huh? Only the instigator is altruistic. > > All of the later "plague victims" have entered into a deal where they > agree to pay back a loan at 200%. The main difference between the > "Altruism plague" and a student loan or real-estate mortgage is that the > interest doesn't go to any bank, instead it goes to the loan-recipients of > the future, and so the system grows exponentially. > > > I can give myself as an example here. I have put more than a thousand > > dollars as well as several years of consistent effort into building a > > working free energy device. When I succeed in doing it-- and I will-- I > > intend to sell this device in some way, either by kits, licensing, sales of > > a downloadable pdf file, or a book. I am not going to give it away. > > We'll see. If "free energy" is a conscious being, it may forever refuse > to deal with anyone who intends to sell the "gift" they've been given. > > > I believe in balance and integration of altruism > > and self interest, not the denial of either. Those that are too selfless > > cannot protect their own interests and often do not have the means to > > succeed. Those who are too selfish destroy those around them. > > Think through the implications of the "Altruism virus". I think they are > too richly intertwined to simply dismiss at face value. It might be wet, > green, and have spots, but perhaps it's not a frog at all. > > > >Yeah, like Hubbard, and Hendershot, and Moray, and Tesla, and Schauberger, > > and Floyd Sweet, and Greg Watson... you get my drift. > > > > OK, let's break it down step by step. I'm doing this from memory so I may > > have some some details wrong. > > > > !) Hubbard was 19 when he invented his device. He did not maintain control > > of it but sold it to the first fat cat who came along. It's unlikely he got > > the money. He went on to become a bootlegger. No business model there, just > > greed. > > I thought that "sensible inventors" are supposed to sell their ideas to > rich businessmen and then retire. Well, many inventors believe this. > > > 2) Hendershot could not get his device to work for anyone else. He had > > nothing to sell. > > > > 3) Moray was genuinely sabotaged. However this came about because he was > > trying to get every expert in the world to agree that his device worked, > > instead of paying attention to the potential consumers of his device, and > > building one at a time to sell to people in the neighborhoods of Salt Lake > > City. This is a work of egotism, not business. > > > > 4) Tesla was so unrealistic in his aims that J.P Morgan was justified in > > pulling the plug on him, which was his right anyway since he was paying the > > bills. His world power system would have been an environmental disaster > > anyway. He was a great genius but he allowed himself to be coopted by the > > wealthy. This was because he had zero business sense. > > > > 5) I don't know the story on Schauberger. > > Signed away the rights, died of a broken heart when he realized what had > happened. > > > 6) Floyd Sweet. Another case where if he had just built the things one at a > > time and sold them to interested parties he could have made some money. Why > > didn't he? Well as I recall he was too broke to build them. Get a job, > > Floyd :-) > > > > 7) Greg Watson actually had the best plan of all of them. The idea of > > selling kits is totally reasonable. However he should have not let his > > enthusiasm carry him away and he should have sent it to a third party lab > > like Scott Little's first and had it validated first before he tried to sell > > it. Getting sucked into the psychology of the lists was his biggest mistake. > > That's assuming he had a device that worked. > > > > So, hmm, do we have a failure of the business model here? No, we have a > > failure to APPLY the business model. These inventors collectively violated > > every tenet of business. To wit: > > > > 1) Have a product that works. > > 2) Get a second opinion about whether it works. > > 3) Don't try to sell vaporware. > > 3) Start small. > > 4) Maintain control of your finances. > > 5) Be realistic. > > 6) Know your market. > > > > Common sense---- to paraphrase what Gandhi said about western civilization, > > "It's a good idea, somebody should try it" :-) > > LOL! > > > >> Altruism is based on being wealthy enough to give enough to make a > > >> difference. > > > > > >No, this particular "altruism" is based on CREATING people who can become > > >wealthy enough to go out and CREATE others like them. > > The "Altruism virus" is not altruistic at all. If it takes off, it will > become an all-consuming fire that burns the world "up" instead of down. > How many people would gladly avoid bank-loans if the interest went to a > good cause instead? > > Hey, how about a "weird science" altruism virus? > > Take this $10,000, do whatever you want with it, but then pay back $10,000 > twice, giving it to two other needy researchers who are trustworthy and > will actually follow through on repayment. (If no such trustworthy > researchers exist, then that's a pretty good reason for all of us to > remain permanently stuck in zero-funding hell, no?) > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 15:56:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA16096; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:55:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:55:46 -0700 Message-ID: <37DD80DC.5DD42B93@harti.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:55:24 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: AMIN CYCLE PDF files uploaded ! X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"D17sA3.0.Fx3.l3Ott"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11993 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have uploaded all the PDF files I could find at www.entropysystems.com into: http://www.overunity.com/amin/aminpdf.zip for easier retrieval. There are also the most important HTML files inside the archive. If you have this ZIP file you have all the technical information needed. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 17:44:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA25923; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:43:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:43:30 -0700 Message-ID: <37DD706E.67D0@intergate.bc.ca> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:45:18 -0400 From: Alik Shereshevsky Reply-To: alik@intergate.bc.ca X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: MEHMET - Re: Last year I purchased a NEUROPHONE References: <37DD3F17.F1EE87C4@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VDx2R.0.uK6.nePtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11994 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A friend of mine purchased a 'neurophone' for some significant amount of money. At some point he came to me asking to fix the thing because one of the skin contacts had its connecting wire break off. He always said that to have the thing work he had to have both skin-contacts applied. I suggested a medical-type skin contact but that apparently would not work. To make the long story short, it used piezo-speakers as skin contacts. When both were applied current flowed from one piezo to the other through the skin and they worked as audio transducers. So much for for that mysterious device. Alik S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 19:31:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA29868; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:31:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:31:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:31:31 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: BILL GO TO CHURCH In-Reply-To: <37DC5B40.7445122C@microtec.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"6LJns3.0.bI7.6ERtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11995 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, patrick tremblay wrote: > You're right: > > 1) I'm not wealthy > 2) I'm not cruel. > > But I'll be both if they continue to pressure me. > > But I'm on my way to be wealthy. If a guy in need crosses my path and > askes for help I'll gladly give it to him. But I'm no mother theresa and > I won't chase all the guys in need to be a professional helper. Get the > point. So, therefore you are immune to the altrusim plague. If a formerly-poor person has $100,000 to dump on someone, and if she gets to know you (without revealing her intention, of course), she'll quickly see just what would happen if she gave you the money. The "plague" would stop dead. Therefore she moves on to the next candidate. People who will violate the agreement cannot be helped, since they would harm the Plague itself. How many "plague victims" are even now searching for members of the honorable poor to "infect" with material success? Money removes many barriers in the material world. The fairy godmother goes looking for Cinderellas to tap on the head and grant their hearts' deepest desires, but all she finds is evil stepmothers who cannot be converted into the next generation of fairy godmothers... > Also I'm pursuing self interests. If Bill wants to be an altruistic > hippie, thank God, I say just like you. Cheers for Bill, fine. He is a > kind person. Go ahead Bill. > > Just a warning, don't expect to have the payback you deserve. Obviouly the "altruism virus" is a meme with goals of its own and a life of its own. Its only payback is to exist and to spread. It swallows people and uses them to spread itself, while vaporizing any poverty in its path. When there are no more victims to infect, it will die. > But what ticks me off is when they say: It's bad to pursue self-interests, > pursue other's interests. It's good to survive. It's good to attain your heart's desires. It's bad to believe that success can only be stolen from others (competition) rather than to be created from scratch (cooperation). > And when church says: when you make money it's for humanitarian purposes > ONLY!! What church is this? Sounds more like anti-church propaganda than like a description of any modern religion. > > It's okay to make money and it's okay to give it away. > > But what ticks me off is when they say that you HAVE to give it away and they > even say how much you must give. Who is "they"? > To all of those, you won't get a cent from me, I'll give my money to > those really in need, those who won't use MORALITY and the menace of > HELL as a purpose to force me to give money. Sounds like you've been hurt by some asshole Christians. > And in fact, give a fish to an esquimau and he will eat ounce, teach him to fish > and he will always eat at his own hunger. > > Self-reliance is the key. Exactly. If the Altruism plague knocks on your door and says "what major do you want your college degree to be in?", what will you say? Say that it's too expensive to pay back a 200% loan, and the Plague will walk down the block searching for a different "victim" to "infect." > > And to fihish it all, here's a little joke I have to tell you about Hell and > Heaven. And Bill you're on the hit list of that one. > > Hell: > > There are 12 man at a table with very long spoons and a pot of soup. > every one tries to serve himself at the pot but the spoon is too long > for them to bring it back to their mouths. So all the selfish ones are > left to starve and they are living the pain of starvation. > > Heaven: > > Everyone has a spoon too long but they serve "each other" and every one > is happy and eat at their heats out. > > Now, if it was for me, either heaven or hell, and because I can't dig > food with other's saliva in it...heh heh heh. > > I'd free myself from the chains, I'd take my spoon and I'd hit every one > on the table and finish them off, then I'd break my spoon and I'd have > all the pot of soup for me. > > HEH HEH HEH HEH HEH HEH....Cruel Laugh!!! heh. (laugh that echos strangely in a room where there should be no echoes at all.) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 19:40:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA01102; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:40:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:40:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:40:07 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg Subject: Re: Altruism ? In-Reply-To: <199909131516400.SM00137@[192.168.0.2]> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Mp7pE2.0.7H.DMRtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11996 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Give it up....Its not what you SAVE, its how much you PRODUCE.... > > If you propose that the value of a person's life is in how much they > produce Maybe "produce" should be "create", as in creative/static/destructive. Learning/teaching "produces" enlightened minds. Bacterial destruction of feces "produces" improved farmland. Breaking into a rich person's home and trashing all of their luxury items is the very opposite of creativity. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 20:55:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA26418; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:54:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:54:50 -0700 Message-ID: <37DDC658.70136F73@mail.admiral.ru> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:51:52 +0400 From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Reply-To: frolov@mail.admiral.ru Organization: Home Lab X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: HLafonte References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IloPF2.0.gS6.9SStt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11997 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I can not see your web site. Please, email to me JPG or GIF to have an idea about your design. Now I am working with some magnet rotor also. Thank you! Alexander ----------- HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > NOTE: THIS IS BEING UPLOADED TO WEB SITE TONIGHT > I have designed a very unique layout that does something I think we have > trying to accomplish for a long time, a near continous flux gradient. The > gradient wants to turn the shaft of this motor/generator with torque that is > strong and near continous. This torque is very, very, strong and is in one > direction and smooth in it's operation. It can operate as a permanent magnet > motor or as a motor that also produces electrial power. > I first designed a simple two disk layout (iron) (each disk shaped like a > "half moon", or 180 degrees of a circle). Between the two disks is a rotor > with one permanent magnet on the outer part of the rotor. On the opposite > side of the rotor, directly across from the permanent magnet, is an iron rod. > Between the two is a permanent magnet who's flux goes to the iron rod when > the outer magnet rotates out from between the two disk plates. REMEMBER THAT > THE DISKS ARE IN A WEDGE LAYOUT, THAT IS, AS THE ROTOR ROTATES COUNTER > CLOCKWISE THE GAP BETWEEN THE PLATES IS LARGEST AS THE MAGNET OR IRON ROD > ROTATE INTO THE PLATE GAP. AS THE MAGNET OR IRON ROD ROTATE AROUND, THE GAP > GETS SMALLER, AND IS MOST NARROW AS THE MAGNET OR IRON ROD EXIT THE PLATES > AFTER ROTATING ABOUT 180 DEGREES. THIS TAPER CAUSES A COUNTER CLOCKWISE > TORQUE ON THE ROTOR. > Now, as the iron rod approaches the narrow part of the gap, the permanent > magnet on the opposite side of the rotor diverts the flux from the center > magnet and the iron rod is free to leave the gap with no drag (I have tested > this theory and it' works just perfect, but the outer permanent magnet needs > to be stronger that the center magnet). At the same time the taper shape is > making the magnet be pulled to the narrow part of the disk taper. > Now you will say that at this point the magnet will lock at this point. > Yes it will if left in this lawout, but if you place a second segment, just > like the first, on a common shaft inline with the first segment and stagger > the outer magnet a few degrees behind the first segment magnet, then it will > want to pull the first segment thru this locking area. Now if you place more > segments inline on a common shaft, the greater the torque to push the first > magnet thru the locking area. > What is very interesting here is the smaller the stagger in degrees between > the segments and the greater the number of segments, the closer the system > approaches a continous torque gradient. As all the permanent magnets rotate > out of the disk then the iron rods are between the plates and act just as > magnets would (they are getting flux from center magnet now) and pull the > rotor around till the permanent magnets rotate around again to the narrow > part of the taper. If induction coils are placed around the iron rods the > collapse of the magnetic field during the flux diversion process will cause > the iron rod to pull even harder into the narrow part of the taper, and after > the flux diversion is complete the rod is free to rotate away from the disk > as it is no longer magnetic. > NOW, if you look at the motor from the end view and remember that each > segment has only ONE rotor with ONE permanent magnet on the rotor edge, ONE > center magnet, and ONE iron rod opposite the outer magnet and think in 3D, > you will see the segments behind all in a stack with their rotors staggered > to give a near continous torque. The greater the number of segnents, the > greater the torque and the more the gradient approaches a continous torque. A > ten foot long motor would have a tremendous torque as you can see. My web > page has drawings of motor and motor/generator and also a drawing of the test > I did to prove the flux switching. Email me any comments, and web page is at: > LaFonte Research site > 1 or http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html -- http://www.time-machine.spb.ru ICQ 43757451 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 21:40:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA13322; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:39:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:39:02 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <9cf8b3d0.250f2b3d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:38:21 EDT Subject: Design made even more simple! To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"sicn9.0.tF3.b5Ttt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11998 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Let me know what you think, remember the center magnet is switching back and forth between iron rods on end of rotor as rod exits right side. Thanks, Butch LaFonte Research site 1 or http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 22:52:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA06482; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:52:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:52:39 -0700 Message-ID: <19990914055207.57767.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.254.227.91] From: "Timothy Flytcher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Earthquake machine - is this for real? Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:52:06 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"vPlJh1.0.Bb1.cAUtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11999 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry Martin, It's boxed away right now, but it's something like that... it is a 8.5x11 soft bound... with complete plans and story... good book ... simple design ... The story is that Tesla was in his lab with this device securely mounted to a large post barred in the center of his workshop... as he was playing with the pressure (about 5 psi) he was watching the tools and his cup on the workbench dance around and having a good time, when all the windows of his building burst! he then picked up a hammer and destroyed the device just as the police broke in his door... he had broken windows for a five block radius... the police thought is was an earth quake ... but it was too long in deration and very localized.... needless to say the nabbers were not happy with him!!! Timothy... >Hi > > >> I have the book... > >> Timothy... > >Is that the book Tesla's Earthquake Generator ? > >Regards >Martin >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/ >_______________________________________________ >We have enough gun control. > What we need is idiot and criminal control. >_______________________________________________ > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 00:10:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA25465; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:10:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:10:11 -0700 Message-ID: <19990914070941.8667.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.254.227.91] From: "Timothy Flytcher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Save vs produce ??? Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:09:41 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"cMLKS.0.oD6.JJVtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12000 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > > Give it up....Its not what you SAVE, its how much you PRODUCE.... > > I think it in not in what you save or produce.... it is the difference between the two!!! just think what it wold be like if you spent only half of your net earnings on just living... and had the other half to do as you please... I see most people spending 110% of there income.... and just can't seem to get out of debt??? but they defend them selves by saying (and believing) "I deserve this level of lifestyle" that is why I belive in the minimalistic life style... Timothy... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 01:35:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA08006; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:35:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:35:11 -0700 From: PetMagic@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:34:31 EDT Subject: Re: Save vs produce ??? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Resent-Message-ID: <"V5_95.0._y1._YWtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12001 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 09/14/1999 3:13:38 AM Central Daylight Time, flytch@hotmail.com writes: > > > > > Give it up....Its not what you SAVE, its how much you PRODUCE.... > > > > I think it in not in what you save or produce.... it is the difference > between the two!!! just think what it wold be like if you spent only half > of your net earnings on just living... and had the other half to do as you > please... I see most people spending 110% of there income.... and just can't > > seem to get out of debt??? but they defend them selves by saying (and > believing) "I deserve this level of lifestyle" that is why I belive in the > minimalistic life style... > Timothy... What we produce in life is a 1000 times more important as what we save. If we have to spend money to be of more effective service to our tribe (your personal choice), so be it. Participating, touching, innovating, communicating - major life principles that make the world go round. And long distance carriers profitable... oh well. Yeah, people have been brainwashed into pampering their bodies to its ill-health. Peter From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 03:09:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA18544; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:08:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:08:54 -0700 Message-ID: <19990914100824.47497.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.254.227.217] From: "Timothy Flytcher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Save vs produce ??? Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:08:23 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"6Fhhv.0.eX4.swXtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12002 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ok peter ... Why? > > > > > > > Give it up....Its not what you SAVE, its how much you PRODUCE.... > > > > > > I think it in not in what you save or produce.... it is the difference > > between the two!!! just think what it wold be like if you spent only >half > > of your net earnings on just living... and had the other half to do as >you > > please... I see most people spending 110% of there income.... and just >can't > > > > seem to get out of debt??? but they defend them selves by saying (and > > believing) "I deserve this level of lifestyle" that is why I belive in >the > > minimalistic life style... > > Timothy... >What we produce in life is a 1000 times more important as what we save. If >we >have to spend money to be of more effective service to our tribe (your >personal choice), so be it. Participating, touching, innovating, >communicating - major life principles that make the world go round. And >long >distance carriers profitable... oh well. >Yeah, people have been brainwashed into pampering their bodies to its >ill-health. > >Peter > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 07:15:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA07758; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:15:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:15:00 -0700 Message-ID: <19990914142135.22628.qmail@nwcst286.netaddress.usa.net> Date: 14 Sep 99 10:21:35 EDT From: Horace To: VORTEX L Subject: Amin Cycle errors X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Priority: 1 X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.3.0.77) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA07720 Resent-Message-ID: <"13zdm2.0._u1.ZXbtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12003 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott, etc... I am corresponding with Amin privately and would appreciate details on errors that you have noticed in his equations (please list the .pdf filename and eq.#). I am interested in both the sign errors and conceptual errors so I can point them out to him. Upon my analysis of his work I also noticed that he completely disregards the work needed to spin-up the gas. I am speculating that Amin is under the impression that since the mass of the gas does not change the work needed to spin it up will be 100% regained when spinning it down. THIS IS WRONG ! Although the mass of the gas is the same the mass distribution is DIFFERENT for different values of compression (the Rc & Pc points per his nomenclature). This is analogical to a ballerina that spreads out her arms to slow down. When the gas is compressed or decompressed it alters the gas mass distribution in the spinning cylinder and this will cause the cylinder to speed up or slow down without mass difference (just like the ballerina). These differences in the spin speed caused by compression are as significant as the other phenomena in Amin Cycle and SHOULD NOT BE conveniently ignored since they REQUIRE WORK to compensate for. Has anybody worked out the formula for Rc as a function of Pc ? Pc = average pressure in the spinning cylinder Rc = Radius from the center of the centrifuge at which the Pc occurs Note: For constant angular velocity the Rc point doesn't move if the Pc is constant. Just the pressure and mass distribution change with different spin rates, without affecting the average pressure and total gas mass. Any help with Rc=Pc(?) would be appreciated. Intelligent comments as well :) Horace ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 07:47:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA21201; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:46:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:46:23 -0700 Message-ID: <19990914144615.15636.qmail@nwcst313.netaddress.usa.net> Date: 14 Sep 99 10:46:15 EDT From: Horace To: FreeEnergy L Subject: 4-coil, 2-phase ring - Electron Blower X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.3.0.77) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA21165 Resent-Message-ID: <"pIp521.0.2B5.--btt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12004 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: FE, A 4-coil, 2-phase ring, exactly as in 2-phase AC motor stators, should work as an electron blower (fan). The magnetic field is very much like that of a real rotating permanent magnet. Imagine such a magnet in the plane of your computer monitor. It can be shown that magnetic flux cuts electrons in such way that Lorentz force creates unidirectional electric lines through the plane of you computer monitor. That is, electrons are blown through as air molecules are blown through a circular fan blade. Do you agree with this ? Can such electron fan be used to blow electrically charged particles such as ionized air ? Horace ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 08:23:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA04865; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:23:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:23:40 -0700 From: dave.tingley@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:59:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Vortices and Negative Entropy Message-ID: <19990914.112348.385.1.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,9-26 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"KyQ9K1.0.wB1.xXctt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12005 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Trevor, You see them often at museums and other places where they are trying to get people to donate money. They are usually about 3 feet across and designed so that you can start a coin rolling around the top edge and it will roll faster and faster as it descends down in a spiral. Interesting to watch and the coin drops in a box and becomes a donation at the bottom. Kids will want to see it over and over again until dad is broke. I don't know where to get one, but maybe a good place to look is a supply catalog that caters to children's charities. Dave On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 01:36:28 EDT Trevmaniac@aol.com writes: > Hi all, > [snip] > Somebody posted a note recdently about a special kind of funnel with > a > logarithmic profile. Something that would assist the vortex to > form. Are > these funnels available anywhere? > > Trevor Sleath > Snohomish WA > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 08:54:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA15709; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:54:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:54:36 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-1-dyn37.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.191.182.52] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:54:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004101befec8$b378b820$34b6bfd1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: 4-coil, 2-phase ring - Electron Blower Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:49:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"7kwm92.0.Lr3.y-ctt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12006 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Horace, This has been patented by William Hooper in his patent US3656013: APPPARATUS FOR GENERATING MOTIONAL ELECTRIC FIELD Apparatus for producing and demonstrating properties of motional electrical fields by means of rotating magnetic flux produced by a plurality of magnets extending parallel with the axis of rotation, said flux being put into rotation about a common axis by mechanical or by electromagnetic means. I can send you a copy of this if you like. If you picture two electrodes at each ends of your axial pathway it is an interesting exercise to see how work is being done by the rotating field to move the charge from one plate to the other. Also note that the field can be rotated faster than light since it is virtual rotation. >A 4-coil, 2-phase ring, exactly as in 2-phase AC motor stators, should work as >an electron blower (fan). > >The magnetic field is very much like that of a real rotating permanent >magnet. > >Imagine such a magnet in the plane of your computer monitor. It can be shown >that magnetic flux cuts electrons in such way that Lorentz force creates >unidirectional electric lines through the plane of you computer monitor. That >is, electrons are blown through as air molecules are blown through a circular >fan blade. > >Do you agree with this ? Can such electron fan be used to blow electrically >charged particles such as ionized air ? Yes, and not only that, Hooper indicates that it will move any particle charged or not in the same manner, perhaps by an electrophoretic effect. He thinks that BxV is gravity but I doubt that. > > >Horace From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 10:03:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA09428; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:02:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:02:50 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:02:03 EDT Subject: Made error on last drawing uploaded to site To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"zF5QS2.0.DJ2.w-dtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12007 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Changing last drawing uploaded to site, made error, will post when change made. Sorry, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 10:03:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA09531; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:03:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:03:21 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:02:40 EDT Subject: Re: Vortices and Negative Entropy To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Resent-Message-ID: <"H0dVt3.0.mK2.O_dtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12008 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 9/14/99 8:25:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dave.tingley@juno.com writes: > You see them often at museums and other places where they are trying to > get people to donate money. They are usually about 3 feet across and > designed so that you can start a coin rolling around the top edge and it > will roll faster and faster as it descends down in a spiral. Interesting > to watch and the coin drops in a box and becomes a donation at the > bottom. Kids will want to see it over and over again until dad is broke. > I don't know where to get one, but maybe a good place to look is a supply > catalog that caters to children's charities. You can get smaller plastic "Vortx" from Edmund Scientific: $20. Works like a bigger one, but after a few dozen coins, balls, etc. you try other things with it. By moving the whole device slightly each time (or every other time, etc.) the coin makes a revolution you can keep it suspended at any point in its downward spiral. Or with a little more movement you can make it spiral upward -- interesting. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 10:33:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA20353; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:33:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:33:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:33:12 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: sciclub-list@eskimo.com cc: webhead-l@eskimo.com Subject: $6 laser pointers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"xwlAL2.0.qz4.QRett"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12009 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, David Kardelis wrote: > > On laser pointers, I just bought a bunch from Harbor Freight. They have a > very nice one on sale for $6.95. The dot is round, comes with batteries- 2 > AA > The pointer is very bright. I tried one in the early morning outside, sun > not quite up but light out and the laser pointer was easily visible on a > wall >100 yds away. Cool! And the price has just dropped to $5.99 Time to buy! http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/taf/Category.taf?CategoryID=690 ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 11:03:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA03613; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:03:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:03:11 -0700 From: Trevmaniac@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:02:21 EDT Subject: Re: Vortices and Negative Entropy To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"S2IQw2.0.Mu.Vtett"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12010 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks for all your suggestions. I also thought about using an old tuba or other brass wind instrument. The profile looks about right. Trevor From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 11:09:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA05832; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:09:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:09:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:09:09 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: "Horganism"???? Perfect!! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"S0Slx.0.vQ1.8zett"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12011 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Has anyone else taken note of the "Reference Frame" editorial in Physics Today magazine? By Philip Anderson? WHY DO THEY LEAVE PHYSICS? He quotes a recent letter from one of his students who was bailing out of physics: There are several reasons for wanting to leave academia, not the least being the desire for a work envirnment which rewards those who take appropriate risks. The problems I have been attracted to are motivated by real world data where there is no existing theoretical model. Involvement in such projects require a desire for new challenges, and appetite for risk, and the ability to be innovative yet humble in the face of data. (Some ellipses deleted, see original in PT 9/99 for the less-readable version.) Anderson goes on to say: My own diagnosis is pretty much identical to the ones implied in the letter [above]. The members of our profession - and particularly those who have responsibility for hiring and for funding research - are infected with "Horganism", the belief that the end of science (or at least of our science) is at hand and that all that is left to do is to grub away at Kuhnian "normal science" following the accepted paradigms. They believe that there are no mre scientific revolutions possible, and that we are now in pursuit of nothing but the next decimal place... All right! "Horganism!" Long have I searched for a single term that lables the sickness in science. "Pathological Skepticism" is a mouthful. "Scientism" isn't a widely-known word. "Arrogance" makes me look like a namecaller. "Horganism" I wonder if Dr. Anderson coined it? It's the perfect ironic comeuppance for John Horgan: to be forever after associated with the suppression of novelty in science. Horganism killed CF, and if it was a bit stronger would have taken out the Wright bros, and QM and Relativity as well. If we all begin to use "Horganism" as a lable, then in centuries hence, we and all our accomplishments will be dust, yet those future scientists will still reap the benefits of 1999 by yet retaining the ability to label and therefore begin to excise all "Horganism" from their souls. Ref: THE END OF HORGAN (on edge.org) http://www.edge.org/discourse/index.cgi?OPTION=VIEW&THREAD=john-horgan/5-7-97/theendofhorgan? Re: "The End of Science" http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/end.html ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 11:48:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA20023; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:48:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:48:09 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <99f623e8.250ff242@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:47:30 EDT Subject: Site updated with correction To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"cVQr53.0.gu4.eXftt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12012 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Site updated with correction on single magnet design LaFonte Research site 1 or http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 12:37:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA06881; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:37:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:37:17 -0700 From: UNIR2B1@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:36:38 EDT Subject: 'BOOM!' -- hydrogen anecdote To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"JfMVK1.0.Oh1.iFgtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12013 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In order break down the venom from a spider bite on a friend’s arm, I disconnected a spark plug wire, inserted a screwdriver, and laid it on the battery (plastic) away from the electrodes or any metal suffice, and started the car. I heard ‘clicking’, looked at the screwdriver, and saw no arc. BOOM--the battery cap blew off. I believe I glimpsed some luminosity, a brief ‘flame’. The arc must have been penetrating downward (behind the screwdriver & through the battery top, electrolyzing the water. Hydroxy or di-hydroxy must have ignited when the concentration quickly became sufficient, either by the arc heat or the pressure buildup. I haven’t yet read my copy of _How to Run Your Car on Zero Point Energy_, but there’s no doubt that water can be easily/cheaply converted into fuel! It seems that the problem in combustion engines is that di-hydroxy isn’t combustible, but EXPLOSIVE. Whereas high octane combusts slowly, hydrogen explosions would probably produce unmanageable shock waves--even enough to rupture a gun if a trigger were a piezoelectric generator and gunpowder were a water drop sealed in the shell... --Russ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 13:10:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA20788; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:09:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:09:45 -0700 Message-ID: <19990914200915.23888.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.254.227.49] From: "Timothy Flytcher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 'BOOM!' -- hydrogen anecdote Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:09:14 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"-oM2k.0.f45.9kgtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12014 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Russ... This hypotheses my not be entirely true... I once saw a battery explode on a work bench, from a careless smoker.... it seems that hydrogen is always present... this taught me resect for lead acid batteries!!! P.S. don't forget the baking soda... Timothy... > The arc must have been penetrating downward (behind the >screwdriver & through the battery top, electrolyzing the water. Hydroxy or >di-hydroxy must have ignited when the concentration quickly became >sufficient, ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 15:37:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA04140; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:36:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:36:50 -0700 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:31:31 -0400 Subject: Re: 'BOOM!' -- hydrogen anecdote Message-ID: <19990914.183235.-435553.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-7 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"X2Chp3.0.b01.1uitt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12015 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sir: I am new to this mailing list (free energy; Bill Beaty). Would you please send me a copy of "How to Run Your Car on Zero Point Energy" (which was mentioned in your contribution)? Thanks, T. Grimes tgrimes1@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 15:54:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA09861; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:54:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:54:21 -0700 Message-ID: <37DED25E.54C559AC@microtec.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:55:26 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Save vs produce ??? References: <19990914070941.8667.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Pg7a43.0.-P2.T8jtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12016 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: No, what I mean is, if those people live at 110%, then they should work harder to meet the extra 10%. It's what you produce, minimalism doesn't mean to consume less than you produce. All minimalists I have encountered just stupidly reduce their consumption, for nothing like it's a "holy" thing to do. They didn't think for a minute that they could work harder and afford more. They don't even consume what they can afford, they devote a "cult" to the non consumption. But it's when I see the images of the international space station that I see that capitalism and riches and greed are good things, cause if it was not for those things, we would still be hunting and living in caves. So what is ethical and what is not, I am asking you frankly. Timothy Flytcher wrote: > > > > Give it up....Its not what you SAVE, its how much you PRODUCE.... > > > > I think it in not in what you save or produce.... it is the difference > between the two!!! just think what it wold be like if you spent only half > of your net earnings on just living... and had the other half to do as you > please... I see most people spending 110% of there income.... and just can't > seem to get out of debt??? but they defend them selves by saying (and > believing) "I deserve this level of lifestyle" that is why I belive in the > minimalistic life style... > Timothy... > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 18:11:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA22742; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:11:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:11:14 -0700 Message-ID: <19990915011042.9673.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.254.227.28] From: "Timothy Flytcher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Save vs produce ??? Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:10:41 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"SJRYw.0.DZ5.n8ltt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12017 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Good come back patrick ! :) >No, > >what I mean is, if those people live at 110%, then they should work harder >to >meet the extra 10%. But what I see is that they just increase there spending as they increase their income... so they always send 110% or more! ie: I know a woman (debbie) who is single and works full time as a checker... (good income) she pays little for rent but is always $5,000.00 to $7,000.00 in debt! She feels she works hard so deserves the little luxuries that the credit cards allow.... > >It's what you produce, minimalism doesn't mean to consume less than you >produce. > >All minimalists I have encountered just stupidly reduce their consumption, >for >nothing like it's a "holy" thing to do. I'm not that radicle :) ... I am trying to achieve the 50% mark... >But it's when I see the images of the international space station that I >see I see the space station as an prime example of minamalisum ... just talk to someone has lived it... The key word is efficiency!!! >that capitalism and riches and greed are good things, cause if it was not >for >those things, we would still be hunting and living in caves. So you are saying that war is a great thing!!! and if we could only have more of them, just think were we would be??? >So what is ethical and what is not, I am asking you frankly. we as people of the world should strive to live as to not damage the earth more than we have to... we should work and play within our means... live simply and and create a world with purpose... not just to f#ck everyone els... Timothy... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 19:29:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA13529; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:29:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:29:04 -0700 Message-ID: <37DF04AE.F0C06F38@microtec.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:30:06 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Save vs produce ??? References: <19990915011042.9673.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EkgzP.0.DJ3.mHmtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12018 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Space Station: The reason why they are minimalist with the space station is about COST: More precisely it's about ENERGY. The day we have a commercial grade overunity device is the day the space station will look like the space stations in the 1960's futuristic comic books. That is: Very large, wheel shaped space stations with artificial gravity, a lot of free space, a lot of rooms, a lot of equipment, no costly and bulky solar panels, a lot of people are living normal lives in it. In fact it's even a mothership, not a one purpose space station but a ship that can act as a space station and a mothership. That day my friends is very close. The first part of the puzzle is being placed: overunity. But the best thing would be a space ship. And with overunity we can have a "closed loop" biological cycle. Just maintained by energy. I think that the reason why the BIOSPHERE failed is because of energy. With overunity you'd have artificial lights powering the crops and oxygen trees all day long. The reason BIOSPHERE failed was because they relied on solar energy. But with more powerful overunity energy, BIOSPHERE would have been a complete success. Now as disgusting as this might sound to you, you could recycle your body's rejection through a high tech, compact artificial biological cycle and would never be out of food, water or oxygen and reliable overunity would be the fuel of that cycle. Hey, they might even make space hotels where you can live the vacation of your life for as little as $300,000. But the more fun would be a lunar colony, or maybe even a colony to distant stars. That day is close my friends, that day is very close when we will have those capabilities. I seek forward to it. I seek forward to have a mothership with overunity, antigravity, artificial gravity....etc. All those things are impossible without overunity, they are not possible even with nuclear energy. We will need overunity. When we have overunity, is the day the earth will be the most prosperous it has ever been. So prosperous, it might even be considered an investment to give away the secrets so the earth can accelerate the economy and the discoveries faster. I might even considerate to give away my discovery if it means that I can buy a family space ship in the near 30 years. Technology is my ultimate dream, and I feel that if humanity has a future, it is in SPACE. Okay, here is a deal, If my overunity works I make a web page and give off the secret: DEAL ??? But you must promise to replicate the experiment. and give credit where credit is due. DEAL ??? I am so passionated by overunity, I even think to give off the secret so technology and economy will accelerate at super speeds. This might pay off in cheaper goods, cheaper energy...duh!! and better technology: i.e. antigravity, family space ships, etc. antigravity flying cars. TIME TRAVEL!!!! My dream is to fly with a crew in a star trek like space ship, to colonise distant planets and build new worlds. If I give my secret now, those things will happen fast. I guess I'll just have to do it. What do you say ? Fuck off the patents,,, we'll all be gillionnaires!!! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 19:46:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA18615; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:45:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:45:50 -0700 Message-ID: <37DF089C.9553DE1A@microtec.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:46:52 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Save vs produce ??? References: <19990915011042.9673.qmail@hotmail.com> <37DF04AE.F0C06F38@microtec.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uIddW3.0.mY4.SXmtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12019 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I could have at least stayed an ignorant dude with the illusion of TerraNostra: the earth is ours. But now I'm hit with sad truth. Oftenly the truth hurths. But before I leave. I will reveal the secret with those words: Save Yourselves!!! patrick tremblay wrote: > Space Station: > > The reason why they are minimalist with the space station is about COST: > More precisely it's about ENERGY. > > The day we have a commercial grade overunity device is the day the space station > will look like the space stations in the 1960's futuristic comic books. > > That is: Very large, wheel shaped space stations with artificial gravity, a lot > of free space, a lot of rooms, a lot of equipment, no costly and bulky solar > panels, a lot of people are living normal lives in it. In fact it's even a > mothership, not a one purpose space station but a ship that can act as a space > station and a mothership. > > That day my friends is very close. The first part of the puzzle is being placed: > overunity. > > But the best thing would be a space ship. And with overunity we can have a > "closed loop" biological cycle. Just maintained by energy. > > I think that the reason why the BIOSPHERE failed is because of energy. With > overunity you'd have artificial lights powering the crops and oxygen trees all > day long. The reason BIOSPHERE failed was because they relied on solar energy. > But with more powerful overunity energy, BIOSPHERE would have been a complete > success. > > Now as disgusting as this might sound to you, you could recycle your body's > rejection through a high tech, compact artificial biological cycle and would > never be out of food, water or oxygen and reliable overunity would be the fuel > of that cycle. > > Hey, they might even make space hotels where you can live the vacation of your > life > for as little as $300,000. > > But the more fun would be a lunar colony, or maybe even a colony to distant > stars. > > That day is close my friends, that day is very close when we will have those > capabilities. I seek forward to it. > I seek forward to have a mothership with overunity, antigravity, artificial > gravity....etc. > > All those things are impossible without overunity, they are not possible even > with nuclear energy. We will need overunity. > > When we have overunity, is the day the earth will be the most prosperous it has > ever been. So prosperous, it might even be considered an investment to give away > the secrets so the earth can accelerate the economy and the discoveries faster. > > I might even considerate to give away my discovery if it means that I can buy a > family space ship in the near 30 years. > > Technology is my ultimate dream, and I feel that if humanity has a future, it is > in SPACE. > > Okay, here is a deal, If my overunity works I make a web page and give off the > secret: DEAL ??? > > But you must promise to replicate the experiment. and give credit where credit > is due. DEAL ??? > > I am so passionated by overunity, I even think to give off the secret so > technology and economy will accelerate at super speeds. This might pay off in > cheaper goods, cheaper energy...duh!! and better technology: i.e. antigravity, > family space ships, etc. > antigravity flying cars. > > TIME TRAVEL!!!! > > My dream is to fly with a crew in a star trek like space ship, to colonise > distant planets and build new worlds. > > If I give my secret now, those things will happen fast. > > I guess I'll just have to do it. What do you say ? > > Fuck off the patents,,, we'll all be gillionnaires!!! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 20:24:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA32676; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:24:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:24:34 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990915111724.009ef180@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:17:24 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Re: Amin Cycle errors In-Reply-To: <19990914142135.22628.qmail@nwcst286.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"knT5u2.0.T-7.o5ntt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12020 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace wrote: >Upon my analysis of his work I also noticed that he completely >disregards the work needed to spin-up the gas. > >I am speculating that Amin is under the impression that since the mass >of the gas does not change the work needed to spin it up will be 100% >regained when spinning it down. THIS IS WRONG ! > >Although the mass of the gas is the same the mass distribution is >DIFFERENT for different values of compression (the Rc & Pc points >per his nomenclature). > >This is analogical to a ballerina that spreads out her arms to slow down. > >When the gas is compressed or decompressed it alters the gas mass >distribution in the spinning cylinder and this will cause the >cylinder to speed up or slow down without mass difference (just >like the ballerina). > You are quite right - your arguments have probably been presented to him many times before (as well as very recently by myself) so you are probably wasting your time ! Compare my recent discussions :- Here are some of my communications with Mr Amin when the subject first arose about three weeks ago. I was intending to share the communication with the list (and told him that I would - in order to make his thoughtful responses worth while being for many readers rather than just myself) but he did not answer my points properly (I had to interleave what I percieved as his responses between each point) and no one else at the time showed an interest. Also his idea was so obviously wrong and his prototype so obviously non-working, that I didn't think I would waste any more of my or other peoples time. I can't understand how someone can spend so much time working on something to become intimately familiar with it, and have so much at stake, and then not seriously consider obvious critisisms. >>>I wrote: >>>>As a result of a posting on a email listserver that I monitor, I >>>>took a quick look at the information on your entropy engine ESI22. >>>>It sounds extremely exciting if it in fact works. I have only >>>>briefly looked through your analysis but it seems that you have >>>>not included the mechanical energy difference that must be input >>>>between the spin-up and spin-down processes. >>>> >>>>When the centrifuge is spun-up in your step 2, there is a >>>>movement of the mass of gas to the outer circumference. This >>>>produces a reaction torque commonly called coriolis force. A well >>>>known illustration of this if a spinning ice-skater spreads her >>>>arms wide her spin slows down (usually she pulls them in to speed >>>>up however). This reaction torque on the spin-up drive is where >>>>the energy comes from to compress the gas around the outer >>>>circumference and rarefy it in the centre (if one was to spin up >>>>a rigid body, then this reaction torque would not be present). >>>> >>>>When the centrifuge is spun-down in your step 4, the gas is not >>>>permitted to expand back into the centre to the same degree >>>>because you have moved the piston in which keeps more of it out >>>>towards the circumference. This means that this coriolis force >>>>which would normally give energy back to the spin drive, cannot >>>>do so. Which means the energy recovered by slowing down the >>>>centrifuge is less (even in principle) than what was input to >>>>spin it up. It doesn't appear that you take account of this >>>>energy deficit, and if I know Nature, it will be the case that >>>>this energy deficit is exactly the amount of energy that you >>>>then extract during the expansion in step 1. >>>> >>>>I think you can also find the same energy deficit in your >>>>gravitational example in that the distance moved (and thus >>>>energy given out) by the container in process 2 is less than >>>>the distance moved by the centre of mass (gass and container). >>>>The difference being the energy required to compress the gas. >>>>In process 4 when the piston is held in, the distance moved >>>>back (and thus work done) is much closer to the distance moved >>>>by the centre of mass and so more energy is required for the >>>>lift back. >>>> >>>Thank you for your review. The questions raised by you >>>are the most commonly raised questions. In the technical >>>information page, you will see item number - 4, which is the >>>Simplified Energy analysis in a closed system at constant volume >>>when subjected to gravity. This is the derivation of the energy >>>changes when the system is torqued up and down. >> >>As I tried to point out before this statement in your derivation >>on this page is blatantly false : >>"the kinetic energy required to increase the rotational speed of >>the gas is exactly equal to the kinetic energy produced by reducing >>the rotational speed of the gas" >> >>Let me prove it simply by a thought experiment: >>Spin-up your centrifuge, place a baffle at half the radius, then >>spin it back down again. According to your statement, all the energy >>taken to spin it up has been recovered by spinning it back down again. >>Also there is no reason for any temperatures to change as the whole >>operation was done slowly. So we have recovered all our energy and >>no temperatures have changed - but we have extra energy after the >>operation in the form of a pressure difference across the baffle! >> >>If this is one of the most commonly raised criticisms, then why >>don't you rectify the problem, and include the missing mechanical >>energy term. > > I would request you to review the paper in detail. All the >equations for energy changes during torque up and down are included >in the paper and similarly for raising or lowering it in a >gravitational field. As far as I could see the energy changes during torque up and down were detailed in the sentence quoted above. He seems to have ignored my argument entirely because I didn't bother to derive a complicated formula for it! >>Mr Amin wrote: >>> Remember the torque up and torque down of the system is done >>>at constant volume. According to the gas law and first law of >>>thermodynamics there is no net thermodynamic work done on the >>>gas when its macroscopic kinetic energy is changed at constant >>>volume., (Please refer any thermodynamics textbook.) >> >>It is obvious that changing the macroscopic kinetic energy of such a >>system by linearly accellerating it to some constant velocity will not >>make any difference - which I expect is what your textbooks mean. >>However it seems just as obvious that spinning up a system of >>elastically coupled particles, or putting them in a gravitational >>field _does_ store potential energy (if a textbook says otherwise, >>I say it must be wrong). >> >>Consider a lumped mass at each end of a spring with some initial length. >>These masses can be given "thermal" energy by setting them vibrating >>with respect to each other. If the system is linearly accelerated then >>at some constant speed its macroscopic kinetic energy has changed and is >>simply given by mv^2 of the masses. There is no need to even consider >>this energy for thermal (vibrational) calculations. >> >>However if it is spun up about the centre of the spring, there are _two_ >>macroscopic energy contributions - the mv^2 of the masses as before plus >>the (1/2 k x^2) due to the stretch in the spring "x" caused by >>centrifugal force on the spring constant "k". It is this second term >>that you are neglecting entirely. In this case also the thermal energy >>of the masses need not change and need not be considered for thermal >>calculations (the spring constant of a stretched spring is the same as >>that of a relaxed spring and the vibration is unaffected). >> >>In this second case the extra energy needed to centrifugally stretch >>the spring has been provided by the coriolis force acting against the >>spin up torque. If this system is spun down then the coriolis force >>acts in the opposite direction and the spring energy is restored back >>into the torque drive. However if a prop is put between the masses to >>prevent the spring from pulling them back together (which is what you >>do by moving in your piston), then the coriolis force will not act and >>the energy recovered by the torque drive during spin down is _less_ >>than that put in during the spin up. And once the system is stopped >>we can measure that lo-and-behold the energy deficit is still there >>as frozen potential energy in the strain of the spring. >> >>It seems to me that there is in principle no difference between two >>large masses connected with linear springs, and many small masses >>connected with perfectly elastic and non-linear springs (which is >>all that a gas is). >> >>> A gas is not a rigid or semi-rigid body like a solid or liquid and thus >>>computations of energy changes cannot be done with a center of mass concept. >> >>I am sure they can - they can be considered as a distributed mass-spring >>system - and even simplified to 1 or 2 molecules as I have suggested above. >> >>>Even if you compute the energy changes by the center of mass concept of >>>a gas you still get net work and net heat conversion in the Amin Cycle. >>>Please try it for yourself. Consider the center of mass concept in both >>>the centrifugal and gravitational analysis and see for yourself that you >>>will get net heat conversion. >> >>If you have done it (as you should have) why should I waste my time doing >>it. I have almost nothing to gain by doing it, and you have everything to >>lose by not doing it. It is definitely your job. Without it you have no >>credibility whatsoever from an educated and sharp audience (unless you >>have experimental proof of course - which is rather lacking in your >>web info). >> >>>Regarding the questions you raised about the theory, thought experiments >>>are not acceptable to us unless they are backed by mathematical analysis. >>>Your introduction of a baffle does not keep the volume constant because >>>it will divide the volume into two parts. >> >>In a thought experiment the baffle can be infinitely thin. That is the >>whole purpose of thought experiments. In a real experiment the baffle >>would be already present with openings or valves which could be shut >>after reaching top speed. clearly this does not change the total volume >>at all, just subdivides it into two smaller volumes across an >>equipotential plane. >> >>>...also please back it up with scientific analysis. >> >>This is a scientific analysis. If you cannot see the go/nogo logic >>of this, then I despair of any algebraic or numeric analysis. >> >>>Send us a correct, mathematically derived analysis showing no net heat >>>conversion is possible and we will be happy to consider it. >> >>On what basis can you "consider it" if the device actually works! >> >>>We would appreciate if you would send us references on your quotes. >> >>I don't recall that I quoted anything that needed a reference. I tried >>to only say things that were obvious and common sense. If you are >>referring to coriolis forces then just sit on a revolving chair, spin >>yourself around, hold weights in your hands in and move them in and >>out. You will feel the forces yourself - a torque that spins you >>faster on moving the weights in and slows you down on moving them >>back out. If you want equations for it, I am sure you will find them >>in Feynmans lectures in physics which you refer to. > >I believe you would agree that scientific discussions have to be >objective and not subjective and thus we would appreciate if you can >point out exact objective scientific and mathematical flaws if there >are any. I'm not sure how he can regard an obvious increase or decrease in rotational speed as being "subjective" ! Maybe observing a reading on an rpm meter or thermometer are also subjective ? >>>All the detailed specifications of the machines operation will be >>>released in our news conference on 9/22/1999. Please check our >>>news/events section. If your university officially requests us to >>>send them all the detailed test data we will be happy to oblige upon >>>signature of an agreement. Please ask your university to write us a >>>letter and we will send all the details. >> >>If you are prepared to consider this email as such a request, then >>please do. If you send a non-disclosure agreement that I find >>acceptable and if I think I have time to further investigate, I will >>sign it and fax it back. > >Brief Test Data on ESI22 is posted on the website now. I appreciate >your time and efforts in evaluating ESI22. Our standard agreements >are all for US institutions. We are currently preparing one for >international agreements and I will email you the agreement as soon >as it is prepared. This has not happened. I hope it doesn't - just more time waste. I did a bit of mathematical analysis on the gravitational version and came up with an expression for the centre of mass of a column of gas in a gravitational field. But it is very obvious to me that there is nothing to be gained by these procedures - indeed it also becomes obvious (from thought alone) that the process of applying and removing a gravitational field is not even in principle reversible without large entropy increase! I have no wish to "Send him a correct, mathematically derived analysis showing no net heat conversion is possible for him to consider". If he can't be bothered to do the work himself, then he deserves to make a fool of himself when he publishes his ideas! But good luck if someone else wants to argue with him. Here are his responses to my arguments - no point in wasting your time repeating them. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 20:31:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA04153; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:31:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:31:05 -0700 Message-ID: <19990915033038.17431.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.254.227.23] From: "Timothy Flytcher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Save vs produce ??? Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:30:37 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"F74p03.0.o01.vBntt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12021 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: patrick, sounds great !!! a little pie in the sky ... but I can hardly wait... till then you don't mind if I live my happy little life ... do you??? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 21:11:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA11354; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:09:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:09:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01a701beff30$a2f91ae0$e08180d8@btech> From: "Bill Wallace`" To: References: <19990915011042.9673.qmail@hotmail.com> <37DF04AE.F0C06F38@microtec.net> <37DF089C.9553DE1A@microtec.net> Subject: Earthlings Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:13:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"TlgeY2.0.Gn2.slntt"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12022 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ever notice how the dogs and birds go away when an earthquake is coming - see they evolved on this planet and are in "tune" with it - they know when disaster strikes. But we are not of this planet - we evolved somewhere else - and therefore do not have these hieghtened senses that are attributable to lower life forms that are natives of earth. ;-) However - put us in our "native" place - and new abilities will spring forth from us that make superman look like a wimp! Up Up and AWAY! (hehe) From: patrick tremblay > I could have at least stayed an ignorant dude with the illusion of TerraNostra: > the earth is ours. > > But now I'm hit with sad truth. Oftenly the truth hurths. > > But before I leave. I will reveal the secret with those words: Save Yourselves!!! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 22:26:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA08855; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:26:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:26:34 -0700 Message-ID: <37DF0686.8F628170@microtec.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:37:58 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Save vs produce ??? References: <19990914070941.8667.qmail@hotmail.com> <37DED25E.54C559AC@microtec.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-B4TN1.0.GA2.Auott"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12023 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'LL DO IT...Heh heh heh heh heh....(mad laugh) (the guy is crazy, stop him) I'll make a web site, revealing to the world how we can make overunity...heh heh heh heh heh heh heh..... lkfjadfj lakdf klafd klafdj ;afja f afkd a;fkldf I know that the day I do this, this is the end of the world as we know it. and we can enter an era of super duper space technology. It will have more impact than a nuclear bomb. I'll do it, by george, I'll do it. Yes, I have nothing to loose. I am full of complexes and convulsions. At least I can do my worst by revealing this awesome power to the world. Imagine, fighting back against tornadoes, against hurricanes, flying in deep space, time travel, desalting the ocean waters, changing climates, de-icing complete roads, cooling florida. Humans will have infinite power. I'll do it. I swear. I will. I will be a man. And since this will be public, every one will have the right to sell and built one themselves. Doctors will want to study and know where the energy comes from, they will discover time travel. And perhaps I will be paid back somehow and have what I always dreamed. My very own space ship. Just the fact that overunity will be a world wide reality is payment enough. People I'm getting crazy, I can't keep this for myself no more. I will have to reveal my secret before it's too late and that I can't reveal it. Okay Bill, You'll have your dream. I swear it. You will, You win. I give up. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 22:56:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA17583; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:56:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:56:02 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-2-dyn26.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.102.74.41] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:55:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005201beff3e$38397f20$294a66d1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Save vs produce ??? Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:50:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"1IO-u1.0.aI4.nJptt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12024 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Go for it, Patrick! >I'LL DO IT From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 23:36:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA26126; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:36:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:36:22 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-2-dyn8.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.102.74.23] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <006e01beff43$da5ef320$294a66d1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Re: The Altruism Virus Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:30:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"F1mC02.0.7O6.bvptt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12025 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, Fred Epps wrote: > >> I hope it works, but I am still skeptical. Personally I think that any model >> that doesn't take into account both altruism and self-interest is likely to >> fail or be destructive. The chain letter is too greedy, and your idea is too >> altruistic. > >Huh? Only the instigator is altruistic. That is where the balance needs to be. The receiver of the bounty is not relevant at this point in the process. There needs to be a reward for the instigator other than a good feeling, right up front. Some people will do it for that but 1) they will be poor but extraordinarily altruistic-- the "saints" at one end of the bell curve 2) they will be rich and can afford to let a little go > >All of the later "plague victims" have entered into a deal where they >agree to pay back a loan at 200%. The main difference between the >"Altruism plague" and a student loan or real-estate mortgage is that the >interest doesn't go to any bank, instead it goes to the loan-recipients of >the future, and so the system grows exponentially. This presumes that the person who is giving the money can tell the difference between a fraud and someone who will genuinely fulfill the "contract" -- and people with good intentions to fulfill it will often not, as time passes and they can rationalize that they need the money more than somebody else. There needs to be a bond through time between the giver and the givee, and if that bond is not one of developed, shared trust, then it needs to be a contract with penalties. > > >We'll see. If "free energy" is a conscious being, it may forever refuse >to deal with anyone who intends to sell the "gift" they've been given. Well, I don't see why "free energy" would be a different sort of 'being' than any other technical breakthrough that has been given from beyond, like Xerox, which came from a spirit medium. This is related to the old controversy about people like psychic healers etc, whether they should charge or not. As far as I can tell the ones who charge are as effective as the ones who don't. It all has to do with belief systems. If you charge, and you feel deep down it is wrong to charge you will not have clients or you will not be effective. And vice versa of course. It seems to me that you are trying to find a reason why nobody has gotten a free energy device off the ground, in some sort of unwillingness on the part of the universe to give it to us. If anything it is an unwillingness on the part of humanity to receive it. I'm ready, Oh Lord, I'm ready :-) But really it is just because it is NEW and HARD TO DO-- at least until somebody does it! (somebody with common sense and psychological balance, I might add, unlike the benighted inventors we've discussed below). > > >Think through the implications of the "Altruism virus". I think they are >too richly intertwined to simply dismiss at face value. It might be wet, >green, and have spots, but perhaps it's not a frog at all. I have thought about it and I can't get past the point that the person I think is most deserving of the 1000 dollars for their research is me. I honestly think that if this were not true and I was simply gathering moss, I would ship the bucks out. > >Take this $10,000, do whatever you want with it, but then pay back $10,000 >twice, giving it to two other needy researchers who are trustworthy and >will actually follow through on repayment. (If no such trustworthy >researchers exist, then that's a pretty good reason for all of us to >remain permanently stuck in zero-funding hell, no?) Trustworthy researchers exist but as I have said before, it is going to take more than email to develop that trust. That is why I use ICQ chat over long periods of time with somebody before I start sending them money :-) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 23:56:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA29680; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:56:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:56:04 -0700 Message-ID: <37DF4392.6025F49A@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:58:26 -0700 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lea_casey@yahoo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: nuked usa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Fp7BU1.0.fF7.4Cqtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12026 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://topping.www-user.imagiware.com/Copy-PU.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 00:10:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA32661; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:10:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:10:10 -0700 Message-ID: <001a01beff49$063cdca0$40a2fea9@hal-9000> Reply-To: "dwenbert" From: "dwenbert" To: Subject: Re: Save vs produce ??? Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 03:07:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"JS75a2.0.E-7.HPqtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12027 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Timothy, You are a Good Man..... How many people here on this list will cancel their service from the local electric utility in the next year? How many want to? Does it have to be zero-point energy or cold fusion before we 'get off our grids'? If for the price of a car, you could become energy independent, would you ? I believe that Man has unlimited energy within his grasp, simply by abandoning reliance on fossil fuels. It is largely a question of who you want to pay that money to each month. Since much of your electric bill goes to the government each month in taxes, there are multiple reasons to send it back, marked "Cancel Service". The only question is which technology to use in your home. I will report back as our Cogeneration and Solar Dynamic prototypes become active......but, I'll tell you one thing: I have quit aiming for 100 Kwh/d as my objective (the average amount of power we consume). Instead, I now want to shoot for 250 Kwh/d, simply to annoy the skeptics, and to make up for [some of] the world's intellectually, ethically, and motivationally challenged. It can be done with off the shelf technology. Stay Tuned..... Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 02:22:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA18838; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 02:21:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 02:21:34 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:21:24 -1000 Subject: Re: nuked usa From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909150521915.SM00240@[192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"zXvFm1.0.Ac4.TKstt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12028 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I read somewhere recently concerning the Tunguska event that they looked for evidence of nuclear reactions that might occur when a bolide hits the atmosphere, but they found none. That would tend to rule out even a natural event for the anomalous readings from the sites referenced in the report you found. The ancient Vedic texts might have an explanation, but it's too unblievable for 'us' to wrap our minds around. Might still have been a big bolide hit, who knows. Interesting stuff though, thanks for the link. > http://topping.www-user.imagiware.com/Copy-PU.htm - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 04:13:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA00416; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:13:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:13:15 -0700 Message-ID: <37DF7FD8.5E748068@telusplanet.net> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:15:37 -0700 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: nuked usa References: <199909150521915.SM00240@[192.168.0.2]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"34dD-.0.O6.Azttt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12029 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hey Rick, glad you liked it! :) Yeah, I've come across some of that veda stuff too.... if nothing else it sure makes one think.... cheers! Don Rick Monteverde wrote: > I read somewhere recently concerning the Tunguska event that they looked for > evidence of nuclear reactions that might occur when a bolide hits the > atmosphere, but they found none. That would tend to rule out even a natural > event for the anomalous readings from the sites referenced in the report you > found. > > The ancient Vedic texts might have an explanation, but it's too unblievable > for 'us' to wrap our minds around. Might still have been a big bolide hit, > who knows. Interesting stuff though, thanks for the link. > > > http://topping.www-user.imagiware.com/Copy-PU.htm > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 08:00:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA30216; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:00:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:00:24 -0700 Message-ID: <37DFB46F.79E4D5CF@harti.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:59:59 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "S. Nicol" , Free Energy Subject: Re: Converting heat to mechanical energy ! Buy the machine ! References: <19990915120318.TGJI14518.mta01@onebox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fzkcp1.0.0O7.8Ixtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12030 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "S. Nicol" schrieb: > > Any word in the Overunity community yet on Entropy Systems? I think we need to take up a world-wide collection and buy one. Hmmm, how about 2500 people at $30 US each? > > -- > S. Nicol > lcars@onebox.com - email > 1-212-894-3761 x0027 - voicemail/fax > Well, the best thing would be, if they would do a public demonstration of the machine. In this moment they just can show a machine that needs less mechanical input energy (from a motor) to cool down the inner cylinders, when I understand it correctly. Some kind of "incremental" overunity effect. Between idle state and cooling state they need less input power, when the cooling state is switched on at the same RPM. What still puzzles me is, why the temperature at all falls 3.8 Fahrenheit when they still put in mechanically over 300 Watts into the frictional heating... normally the internal temperature should still increase because of this over 300 Watts heating , but maybe just less ?? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 08:39:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA10347; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:39:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:39:35 -0700 Message-ID: <37DFBE4F.602D1FCD@technologist.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:42:07 -0700 From: Brian Snyder Organization: Ultimate Security Systems Corp. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Save vs produce ??? References: <19990914070941.8667.qmail@hotmail.com> <37DED25E.54C559AC@microtec.net> <37DF0686.8F628170@microtec.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------D263E636479CE262A1ACD866" Resent-Message-ID: <"9oChJ1.0.aX2.tsxtt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12031 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --------------D263E636479CE262A1ACD866 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit patrick tremblay writes: > People I'm getting crazy, I can't keep this for myself no more. > > I will have to reveal my secret before it's too late and that I can't reveal it. > > Well Patrick...........We are all waiting anxiously for your disclosure! Let's have it. --------------D263E636479CE262A1ACD866 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 



 

   patrick tremblay  writes:



People I'm getting crazy, I can't keep this for myself no more.

I will have to reveal my secret before it's too late and that I can't reveal it.







Well Patrick...........We are all waiting anxiously for your disclosure! 
Let's have it.

 

 

--------------D263E636479CE262A1ACD866--

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From: Charlie Hodgson 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: Earthlings
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On 15-Sep-99 Bill Wallace` wrote:
> Ever notice how the dogs and birds go away when an earthquake is coming -
> see they evolved on this planet and are in "tune" with it - they know when
> disaster strikes.  But we are not of this planet - we evolved somewhere
> else - and therefore do not have these hieghtened senses that are
> attributable to lower life forms that are natives of earth. ;-)  However -
> put us in our "native" place - and new abilities will spring forth from us
> that make superman look like a wimp!  Up Up and AWAY! (hehe)

I believe we are not in tune to the planet because we are TAUGHT not
to be in tune with it, or any of nature for that matter. I can't buy that
we are aliens. If so, why is there so much structural similarities between
humans, the other primates and reptiles? 

The rest of the animal kingdom takes thier existence as it comes. They are 
taught HOW to be whatever animal they are by thier parents, how to recognize
and utilize thier inate abilities. Included in that is all of natural law.

Humans on the other hand devise myths, theories, etc, to explain away that
which just is and not focus on what is. Natural abilities are ridiculed or
looked upon as the devil's work (or some other such nonesense). Repression of
nature comes from all over.

Last night my wife told me of a conversation she had with some friends that
night concerning 5-6 y.o. girls masturbating. One woman was horrified when she
saw her little girl doing it. She asked "where did she learn it from?" and "how
do I get her to stop?" My wife replied that it is natural, she probably
accidently found out it felt good an contimues to do it now, eventually she
will stop, just thell her it's OK, just do it in an appropriate location.
I find it interesting that people are so sexually repressed that they think
masturbation is something one is taught to do.

Our natural abilities are repressed on all fronts.

Animal parents teach thier young all that is needed to survive; how to find
water, food and warning signs of nature. Humans teach thier young math, history,
etc, but neglect the basics of life. How many humans will perish from starvation
and dehydration should the infrastucture we have built collapses? In the
industrialized world I would guess at least 80%, probably much higher. 
How many animals? Only the ones that have become dependent in man for their
survival. Most people who stockpile two years worth of supplies will be gone in
two years and a month. 

Do you realize that 100,000+ years of human evolutionary knowledge, built up
generation by generation, discovery by discovery, has been lost in the last 100
or so years?

We, as a people, are taught to only believe in what we understand. If it can't
be described mathematically it just can't be. Belief in g*d is the only
exception, where the uncertainty becomes the main selling point.

Just my thoughts,
Charlie

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From: Pepthewep@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:45:07 EDT
Subject: Re: Save vs produce ???
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Hey...this guy Patrick is OK!  hehe!.........


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 06:03:09 1999
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On 15-Sep-99 Bill Wallace` wrote:
> Ever notice how the dogs and birds go away when an earthquake is coming -
> see they evolved on this planet and are in "tune" with it - they know when
> disaster strikes.  But we are not of this planet - we evolved somewhere
> else - and therefore do not have these hieghtened senses that are
> attributable to lower life forms that are natives of earth. ;-)  However -
> put us in our "native" place - and new abilities will spring forth from us
> that make superman look like a wimp!  Up Up and AWAY! (hehe)

I believe we are not in tune to the planet because we are TAUGHT not
to be in tune with it, or any of nature for that matter. I can't buy that
we are aliens. If so, why is there so much structural similarities between
humans, the other primates and reptiles? 

The rest of the animal kingdom takes thier existence as it comes. They are 
taught HOW to be whatever animal they are by thier parents, how to recognize
and utilize thier inate abilities. Included in that is all of natural law.

Humans on the other hand devise myths, theories, etc, to explain away that
which just is and not focus on what is. Natural abilities are ridiculed or
looked upon as the devil's work (or some other such nonesense). Repression of
nature comes from all over.

Last night my wife told me of a conversation she had with some friends that
night concerning 5-6 y.o. girls masturbating. One woman was horrified when she
saw her little girl doing it. She asked "where did she learn it from?" and "how
do I get her to stop?" My wife replied that it is natural, she probably
accidently found out it felt good an contimues to do it now, eventually she
will stop, just thell her it's OK, just do it in an appropriate location.
I find it interesting that people are so sexually repressed that they think
masturbation is something one is taught to do.

Our natural abilities are repressed on all fronts.

Animal parents teach thier young all that is needed to survive; how to find
water, food and warning signs of nature. Humans teach thier young math, history,
etc, but neglect the basics of life. How many humans will perish from starvation
and dehydration should the infrastucture we have built collapses? In the
industrialized world I would guess at least 80%, probably much higher. 
How many animals? Only the ones that have become dependent in man for their
survival. Most people who stockpile two years worth of supplies will be gone in
two years and a month. 

Do you realize that 100,000+ years of human evolutionary knowledge, built up
generation by generation, discovery by discovery, has been lost in the last 100
or so years?

We, as a people, are taught to only believe in what we understand. If it can't
be described mathematically it just can't be. Belief in g*d is the only
exception, where the uncertainty becomes the main selling point.

Just my thoughts,
Charlie

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 09:24:41 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" 
To: 
Subject: Re: nuked usa
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:18:19 -0700
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Hi Rick,

>
>The ancient Vedic texts might have an explanation, but it's too unblievable
>for 'us' to wrap our minds around.

Hey Rick I can, I think there have been hundreds of cycles of advanced
civilization on this planet. It's basic purpose as a school for souls
requires many "classes."

Hopefully the bell is not about to ring :-)

Fred


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 09:33:41 1999
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From: Ge Nefkens 
Organization: (inventors site)
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Subject: Re: 'BOOM!' -- hydrogen anecdote ======     see http://layo.com
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UNIR2B1@aol.com wrote:
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 09:38:09 1999
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From: tgrimes1@juno.com
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:23:27 -0400
Subject: Patrick Tremblay: save vs produce
Message-ID: <19990915.122937.-366083.1.tgrimes1@juno.com>
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There is a small error here:

>I think that the reason why the BIOSPHERE failed is because of energy.
With
>overunity you'd have artificial lights powering the crops and oxygen
trees all
>day long. The reason BIOSPHERE failed was because they relied on solar
energy.
>But with more powerful overunity energy, BIOSPHERE would have been a
complete
>success.

Plants are designed to be solar-powered.  There is a "dark reaction"
conducted in plants that only occurs when light levels fall below a
certain point.  This reaction is necessary for the plant to thrive,
except in a very few special cases (peppers, for example).  Also, changes
in the amount of daylight trigger vascular plants to produce fruit (which
is usually what is harvested).  Therefore, giving the BIOSPHERE an
artificialy long "day" would be more detrimental than good.

	-T Grimes

___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 09:48:41 1999
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Message-ID: <37DFCDC9.2263E07D@harti.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:48:09 +0200
From: Stefan Hartmann 
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Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service
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Hi,

here is a new Newman motor experiment
from 
Mr. Jukka Kinnunen, Finland
email:  misterjukka@hotmail.com

http://utenti.tripod.it/testatikmachine/jwnssmg/index.htm


He did not use a mechanical commutator,
so he does not probably have the negative back current pulses
that reduce input current into the motor,
which is probably just chemical to electrical energy
conversion by oxidation of the commutator
metals...during "hissing sparks" buildup.

So if the Newman motor is going overunity it really comes
from the chemical energy converted to electrical energy !

Regards, Stefan.

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 10:54:59 1999
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Subject: Re: Earthlings
From: "Rick Monteverde" 
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Charlie -

> Last night my wife told me of a conversation she had with some friends that
> night concerning 5-6 y.o. girls masturbating. One woman was horrified when she
> saw her little girl doing it. She asked "where did she learn it from?" and
"how
> do I get her to stop?" My wife replied that it is natural, she probably
> accidently found out it felt good an contimues to do it now, eventually she
> will stop, just thell her it's OK, just do it in an appropriate location.
> I find it interesting that people are so sexually repressed that they think
> masturbation is something one is taught to do.

Maybe she remembered it from another lifetime. This is what throws some
child molestation cases into such turmoil. Young children involved in such
cases sometimes tell of sexual activities and 'experiences' in such specific
detail they couldn't possibly know unless it happened to them, thus
supporting prosecution claims. But then other solid evidence comes in and
denies the possibility that such events could have happened in the child's
lifetime. Memories from other lifetimes reconciles it, but that notion does
not fit within the dominant Christian philosophy of most Americans since
such notions were expurgated from Christianity in the 5th century. So Bible
thumping prosecutors and juries terrorized by their bad religion seem to
have no choice but to convict innocent people. Of course this paragraph is
not to be considered in any way expressing any kind of leniency towards
those actually guilty of such heinous crimes, but rather to an example of
the misapplication of justice due to a lack of information about the true
nature of our existence and capabilities.

"Instinct", whether in human or animal, may be much more than sumple
genetically induced urges or experimental discoveries quickly adapted.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 11:50:48 1999
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Message-ID: <37DFEC01.78C@lcia.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:57:05 -0400
From: B25B@LCIA.COM (RON BRENNEN)
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Timothy Flytcher wrote:
> 
> >On 12-Sep-99 D Adams wrote:
> > > TESLA EARTHQUAKE MACHINE, SIMPLIFIED.
> > >
> >
> >Simplified? From what I understand of the the device,
> >it more-or-less works like hitting a hammer on the
> >ground at a given frequency. The idea is that each
> >'blow', when timed to coincide with the return wave
> >of the previous blow(s), will cause the energy to
> >build up. It's purported that Tesla nearly leveled
> >some buildings in NYC using this device.
> >
> >Charlie
> >
> 
> Well kinda, Tesla gave the analogy of pushing a child on a swing... you just
> need a small push at the right time... Tesla claimed he could bring down a
> bridge or building within minutes with his pocket sized device.... it all
> works with harmonics! Maybe that's not the right word... because harmonics
> deals with sound  and his worked at a very low frequency.. like 3-20 per
> second...
> I have the book...
> Timothy...
 
  Have you tried it? Does it work? Where did you get the book?
  Ron

  ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 11:53:48 1999
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Subject: Re: PFT Motor mk2 - Update...
From: "Rick Monteverde" 
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Jean-Louis -

> Dear All,
> 
> I have just updated my web page about the PFT Motor mk2 with some interesting
> comments, pictures and videos at :
> http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/pftm2.htm
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jean-Louis Naudin


Looks great! Any idea of how much torque is generated by the motor at speed?

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 12:02:52 1999
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Subject: Re: PFT Motor mk2 - Update...
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Just wondering - how efficient is this compaired with a modern motor?  What
was the RMP and Amps with the prop?
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 1:42 PM
Subject: PFT Motor mk2 - Update...


> Dear All,
>
> I have just updated my web page about the PFT Motor mk2 with some
interesting
> comments, pictures and videos at :
> http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/pftm2.htm
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jean-Louis Naudin
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 12:21:49 1999
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Ok, I had to think about this a little bit, but now I can see what it is 
that has been bothering me: why should there be any current flow at all? I
mean through the motor, not the typical HV losses we should expect. In the
graphs of current VS. RPM, where is that current going? Is it just sweeping
ions into the air better due to the greater spinning activity? If not, how
do you account for it? The rotor is an insulator! And if you *don't* account
for it in terms of motive forces (power) acting on the rotor then hey, use
electrets for the outer electrodes for a free energy fuel-less motor. It's
got to be one or the other, right? But how can it be either?

Is the source is pulsing HV DC (biased AC)?

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 12:44:42 1999
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Subject: Re: PFT Motor mk2 - Update...
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Dans un courrier daté du 15/09/99 21:23:14é), rick@highsurf.com a écrit :

> Is the source is pulsing HV DC (biased AC)?

pulsing HV DC...

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 12:47:42 1999
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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:46:55 EDT
Subject: Re: PFT Motor mk2 - Update...
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Dans un courrier daté du 15/09/99 21:07:16é), schnabel@netkonnect.net a écrit 
:

> Just wondering - how efficient is this compaired with a modern motor?  What
>  was the RMP and Amps with the prop?

You will find all details at :
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/pftmio.htm

Regards,

Jean-Louis Naudin

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 12:48:32 1999
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I'm having no luck with this link to the RealAudio clip with the propellor
on the motor:

http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/videos/pftprop.rm

All I get is a page full of garbage in the browser instead of the RA
document that fires up the player and streams in the video. Anyone else?

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 13:06:32 1999
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From: Pepthewep@aol.com
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Religions tend to control and constrict.  Speaking of past lives affecting 
one's present life, I have a horrifying fear of indoor bodies of water.  
Swimming pools especially but, it can be fountains as well.  I'm OK as long 
as someone is with me although I still have a feeling of foreboding.  The 
thing is, I never swim...don't know how.  I've been in pools with 
life-preservers on and I LOVE IT...NO fear!!  But, just being in a room with 
water alone will have me screaming for help!  Strange.
    I did, ONCE ONLY, have a dream that was in a different era (civil war) .  
A dream so real, I can still smell the dust.  It started with me just 
standing at the side of a dirt road waiting with other men...I was a man 
also!  The others were laughing and jostling each other and I sensed they 
were laughing at me.  I understood that because I was somewhat retarded.  I 
was intensely watching both ends of the road (we were on a hill) waiting for 
the opposition's troops to come. The sky was gray with dust from the road and 
soldiers were lying around.  Suddenly, I saw heads coming up the hill but, I 
couldn't see which side it was until I could see the color of their uniforms. 
 Higher and higher they came.  THEN, I saw gray, the enemy color!  I screamed 
to everyone,"Get down everybody, here they come!!  Here's the proof I was 
retarded...I simply fell down in the dirt road and on my elbows propped up my 
gun and started shooting.  I saw a soldier walking toward me and I kept 
shooting wildly at him but kept missing.  He was getting closer and I finally 
hit him but he kept coming until he was right over me.  I was sick with fear. 
 He pointed his gun at me and.................I woke up:-)  
     There are those who say, "lots of people have Civil War dreams."  Well, 
lots of people died in the Civil War.....hundreds of thousands.  That was the 
only dream I have EVER had where I was in a different time-period.    Barb c.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 13:21:02 1999
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Intriguing is the fact that adding more layers of poly increases the RPM. 
Does tend to reduce the possibility that it's just another electrostatic
effect. Still, I'd like to see a stationary plastic film barrier tried
between the rotor and stators. If such a barrier has zero effect, then I
think we have to completely give up on the electrostatic objection.

Then there's eddy currents inside the rotor's metal, an obvious source of
potential induction motor effect and current drain. But then again in the
case of eddy currents - why would it work *better* with extra layers of
poly? This sure is interesting. Way to go, Jean-Louis.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

>> Just wondering - how efficient is this compaired with a modern motor?  What
>>  was the RMP and Amps with the prop?
>
> You will find all details at :
> http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/pftmio.htm
>
> Regards,
>
> Jean-Louis Naudin


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 13:46:10 1999
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How long does it rotate with the propellor,
if you charge it up to 28 KV and then disconnect
the HV supply and left
the charge on the alu bottles ?

Do they discharge fast with the rotating rotor ?

Maybe this really would work with a HV electret ?

maybe this is the same effect like the Testatika,
but the Testatika is just the linear version
and your PFT is the rotary version ?


Regards, Stefan.


JNaudin509@aol.com schrieb:
> 
> Dans un courrier daté du 15/09/99 21:05:30é), harti@harti.com a écrit :
> 
> > did the PFT motor also work without
> >  the aluminium inside the rotor ??
> >
> >  Just a rotor from plastic, no alu inside ?
> 
> NO, ALUMINUM IS THE KEY of the success .. this is needed for having the
> second armature of the capacitor...

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 14:06:41 1999
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I get the same thing and cant seem to troublshoot it..... I have also
tried to save the .rm file to disk and when I play it, its just a bunch
of Black screen.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 14:48:15 1999
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Subject: Re: How long does PFT  rotate ?
From: "Rick Monteverde" 
To: freenrg 
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Stefan -

> Maybe this really would work with a HV electret ?

I doubt it would of course, but it's another idea. I think even in the
Poynting case there needs to be a time varying charge.

Also because of the problem that eddy currents in the rotor's conductor can
create a motor effect I was thinking - does the foil inside the rotor need
to rotate with the dielectric poly layers? I don't think so. After all, the
bulk of supposed Poynting vector effect occurs in the dielectric, doesn't
it?

If this is working as advertised, then if a pulsating charge is imposed
between two uneven conductive capacitor plates, and a dielectric disc is
placed between them, then when started spinning the disc should continue to
spin. No metal in the disc. It would certainly be weird (no, it would be
more - it would be OU and a huge breakthrough) if such a setup did rotate
continuously on steady state DC, as from electrets.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 15:08:20 1999
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Brian Snyder schrieb:
> 
> I get the same thing and cant seem to troublshoot it..... I have also
> tried to save the .rm file to disk and when I play it, its just a bunch
> of Black screen.

Just copy the http://xxxx.xxxxx.xxxx.rm
link to your Clipboard (Control + C) and
paste it into the RealG2 player into Open Location.

This works !

Best regards, Stefan.


--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 15:35:28 1999
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Brian Snyder escribió:

> I get the same thing and cant seem to troublshoot it..... I have also
> tried to save the .rm file to disk and when I play it, its just a bunch
> of Black screen.

Hi all.
It's work fine to me. Great effort Jean!



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 15:38:27 1999
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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:39:09 -0400
From: patrick tremblay 
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More than that,

some religions totally represses sex, on the other hands they teach that family is
necessary and an obligation, but that you can't have sex for pleasure.

Well I reply to those hopeless weanies that if you can't have pleasure, you can't
have appetite. And if you can't have sexual appetite, you can't have sex period.

So this means. When a narrow minded zealot tells you that you must live a harsh life
of principles, tell him that analogy between enjoying life and enjoying sex.

If people can't be free to expect pleasure in life, they won't get the power to work
in life and accomplish things.

Some people I know in church would need psychological viagra.

If you see what I mean.

I mean, when you accomplish something, you accomplish it for whatever reason that
motivates you, but you are motivated. You don't have to do it simply because you
have to.



Charlie Hodgson wrote:

> On 15-Sep-99 Bill Wallace` wrote:
> > Ever notice how the dogs and birds go away when an earthquake is coming -
> > see they evolved on this planet and are in "tune" with it - they know when
> > disaster strikes.  But we are not of this planet - we evolved somewhere
> > else - and therefore do not have these hieghtened senses that are
> > attributable to lower life forms that are natives of earth. ;-)  However -
> > put us in our "native" place - and new abilities will spring forth from us
> > that make superman look like a wimp!  Up Up and AWAY! (hehe)
>
> I believe we are not in tune to the planet because we are TAUGHT not
> to be in tune with it, or any of nature for that matter. I can't buy that
> we are aliens. If so, why is there so much structural similarities between
> humans, the other primates and reptiles?
>
> The rest of the animal kingdom takes thier existence as it comes. They are
> taught HOW to be whatever animal they are by thier parents, how to recognize
> and utilize thier inate abilities. Included in that is all of natural law.
>
> Humans on the other hand devise myths, theories, etc, to explain away that
> which just is and not focus on what is. Natural abilities are ridiculed or
> looked upon as the devil's work (or some other such nonesense). Repression of
> nature comes from all over.
>
> Last night my wife told me of a conversation she had with some friends that
> night concerning 5-6 y.o. girls masturbating. One woman was horrified when she
> saw her little girl doing it. She asked "where did she learn it from?" and "how
> do I get her to stop?" My wife replied that it is natural, she probably
> accidently found out it felt good an contimues to do it now, eventually she
> will stop, just thell her it's OK, just do it in an appropriate location.
> I find it interesting that people are so sexually repressed that they think
> masturbation is something one is taught to do.
>
> Our natural abilities are repressed on all fronts.
>
> Animal parents teach thier young all that is needed to survive; how to find
> water, food and warning signs of nature. Humans teach thier young math, history,
> etc, but neglect the basics of life. How many humans will perish from starvation
> and dehydration should the infrastucture we have built collapses? In the
> industrialized world I would guess at least 80%, probably much higher.
> How many animals? Only the ones that have become dependent in man for their
> survival. Most people who stockpile two years worth of supplies will be gone in
> two years and a month.
>
> Do you realize that 100,000+ years of human evolutionary knowledge, built up
> generation by generation, discovery by discovery, has been lost in the last 100
> or so years?
>
> We, as a people, are taught to only believe in what we understand. If it can't
> be described mathematically it just can't be. Belief in g*d is the only
> exception, where the uncertainty becomes the main selling point.
>
> Just my thoughts,
> Charlie

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 15:51:17 1999
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Hi all,

How should I disclose the plans ?

In a web page, a .pdf file, a .ftp site. an .exe file.
Also I welcome anyone with a "WORKING DEVICE" to prepare a disclosure to include. I
want to start a FREEWARE free energy movement. Not even shareware.

I want it to rapidly expand, I want it to be in the hands of everyone in the world
the next morning I send it.

Will you help me bring traffic to my web sites, and send a chain letter with the
file enclosed.

I am preparing the file now. I am going to be VERY specific, giving only technical
data, no philosophy about GOD giving me the secret, no blabla, no natural law
blabla.

It will have to be a very small file, in order to upload and download very rapidly,
and in order to give only the engineering details.

I want this to be the best plans about free energy ever. I am not even going to
charge a cent for it.

However, I will enclose publicity in my disclosure, probably just credit information
and a few web site links.

What I would prefer is that it would be in the form of an executable file, so that
no one can modify it considerably and that all the information is intact, genuine
and that the space I am reserving to myself will be intact too.

Anyone good at programming ?  I think I'll do this with Qbasic or VBasic.

This is serious business. I think humanity will need free energy very soon to win an
incoming war or asteroid or something. I think this disclosure will make a
difference.

I feel I don't have time to waste, that a date is coming and that if I get greedy we
will all (including myself) fail.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 16:24:14 1999
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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:26:21 -0700
From: Brian Snyder 
Organization: Ultimate Security Systems Corp.
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patrick tremblay wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> How should I disclose the plans ?
>
>

A Microsoft Word .doc has good security features. Thais is what I use allot to ensure
that it isn't modified.

>
> I want it to rapidly expand, I want it to be in the hands of everyone in the world
> the next morning I send it.
>

I can help do this. I am fully equipped to send the message to millions if you desire at
the press of a button.

>
> Will you help me bring traffic to my web sites, and send a chain letter with the
> file enclosed.

No Problem!

>
> I am preparing the file now. I am going to be VERY specific, giving only technical
> data, no philosophy about GOD giving me the secret, no blabla, no natural law
> blabla.

But I enjoy Newman's writing!!    Not!!!...........

> I want this to be the best plans about free energy ever. I am not even going to
> charge a cent for it.
>
> However, I will enclose publicity in my disclosure, probably just credit information
> and a few web site links.

Great....I will stand up for you for recognition in your behalf..

>
> What I would prefer is that it would be in the form of an executable file, so that
> no one can modify it considerably and that all the information is intact, genuine
> and that the space I am reserving to myself will be intact too.
>
> This is serious business. I think humanity will need free energy very soon to win an
> incoming war or asteroid or something. I think this disclosure will make a
> difference.

I hope your not just pulling our legs.....

Let me know if I can help

Brian

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 16:56:50 1999
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From: "Red-Leader" 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:55:20 +0000
Subject: Re: about disclosure
Priority: normal
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patrick tremblay  wrote:
 
> How should I disclose the plans ?
> In a web page, a .pdf file, a .ftp site. an .exe file.

I would make it either a Word document like somebody suggested or a 
pdf file. Just a web page is fine for most people though. Here's 
hoping you get something working to put in a document.




    =====================
       Emmett Hawkins
        "Red-Leader"
    Red-Leader@Dabney.com
    =====================
                

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 17:05:07 1999
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Message-ID: <00c701beffd7$bd8c69a0$da8080d8@btech>
From: "Bill Wallace`" 
To: 
References:  <37E0200D.5860072E@microtec.net>
Subject: Re: Earthlings
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:09:23 -0400
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I guessed people missed my ;) and (hehe)  - I was being sarcastic about
"earthlings"  - some people are just too gullible and do not have good
critical thinking skills - however when it comes to sex I totally agree -
get all you can before you die! (hehe)

From: patrick tremblay 


> More than that,
>
> some religions totally represses sex, on the other hands they teach that
family is
> necessary and an obligation, but that you can't have sex for pleasure.


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 18:47:57 1999
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From: "Timothy Flytcher" 
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Subject: Re: Earthlings
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:46:52 PDT
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Oh please!!!
don't get me started on religion!!!
everyone hate it when I speak my views on it ... but I just love to tell you 
all...

but I'm really trying hard to be good!!! really I am !!!

Timothy...

>More than that,
>
>some religions totally represses sex, on the other hands they teach that 
>family is
>necessary and an obligation, but that you can't have sex for pleasure.
>
>Well I reply to those hopeless weanies that if you can't have pleasure, you 
>can't
>have appetite. And if you can't have sexual appetite, you can't have sex 
>period.
>
>So this means. When a narrow minded zealot tells you that you must live a 
>harsh life
>of principles, tell him that analogy between enjoying life and enjoying 
>sex.
>
>If people can't be free to expect pleasure in life, they won't get the 
>power to work
>in life and accomplish things.
>
>Some people I know in church would need psychological viagra.
>
>If you see what I mean.
>
>I mean, when you accomplish something, you accomplish it for whatever 
>reason that
>motivates you, but you are motivated. You don't have to do it simply 
>because you
>have to.
>
>
>
>Charlie Hodgson wrote:
>
> > On 15-Sep-99 Bill Wallace` wrote:
> > > Ever notice how the dogs and birds go away when an earthquake is 
>coming -
> > > see they evolved on this planet and are in "tune" with it - they know 
>when
> > > disaster strikes.  But we are not of this planet - we evolved 
>somewhere
> > > else - and therefore do not have these hieghtened senses that are
> > > attributable to lower life forms that are natives of earth. ;-)  
>However -
> > > put us in our "native" place - and new abilities will spring forth 
>from us
> > > that make superman look like a wimp!  Up Up and AWAY! (hehe)
> >
> > I believe we are not in tune to the planet because we are TAUGHT not
> > to be in tune with it, or any of nature for that matter. I can't buy 
>that
> > we are aliens. If so, why is there so much structural similarities 
>between
> > humans, the other primates and reptiles?
> >
> > The rest of the animal kingdom takes thier existence as it comes. They 
>are
> > taught HOW to be whatever animal they are by thier parents, how to 
>recognize
> > and utilize thier inate abilities. Included in that is all of natural 
>law.
> >
> > Humans on the other hand devise myths, theories, etc, to explain away 
>that
> > which just is and not focus on what is. Natural abilities are ridiculed 
>or
> > looked upon as the devil's work (or some other such nonesense). 
>Repression of
> > nature comes from all over.
> >
> > Last night my wife told me of a conversation she had with some friends 
>that
> > night concerning 5-6 y.o. girls masturbating. One woman was horrified 
>when she
> > saw her little girl doing it. She asked "where did she learn it from?" 
>and "how
> > do I get her to stop?" My wife replied that it is natural, she probably
> > accidently found out it felt good an contimues to do it now, eventually 
>she
> > will stop, just thell her it's OK, just do it in an appropriate 
>location.
> > I find it interesting that people are so sexually repressed that they 
>think
> > masturbation is something one is taught to do.
> >
> > Our natural abilities are repressed on all fronts.
> >
> > Animal parents teach thier young all that is needed to survive; how to 
>find
> > water, food and warning signs of nature. Humans teach thier young math, 
>history,
> > etc, but neglect the basics of life. How many humans will perish from 
>starvation
> > and dehydration should the infrastucture we have built collapses? In the
> > industrialized world I would guess at least 80%, probably much higher.
> > How many animals? Only the ones that have become dependent in man for 
>their
> > survival. Most people who stockpile two years worth of supplies will be 
>gone in
> > two years and a month.
> >
> > Do you realize that 100,000+ years of human evolutionary knowledge, 
>built up
> > generation by generation, discovery by discovery, has been lost in the 
>last 100
> > or so years?
> >
> > We, as a people, are taught to only believe in what we understand. If it 
>can't
> > be described mathematically it just can't be. Belief in g*d is the only
> > exception, where the uncertainty becomes the main selling point.
> >
> > Just my thoughts,
> > Charlie
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 18:50:32 1999
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From: John Winterflood 
Subject: Re: PFT Motor mk2 - Update...
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Rick Monteverde wrote:
>Ok, I had to think about this a little bit, but now I can see what it is 
>that has been bothering me: why should there be any current flow at all? I
>mean through the motor, not the typical HV losses we should expect. In the
>graphs of current VS. RPM, where is that current going? Is it just sweeping
>ions into the air better due to the greater spinning activity? If not, how
>do you account for it? The rotor is an insulator! And if you *don't* account
>for it in terms of motive forces (power) acting on the rotor then hey, use
>electrets for the outer electrodes for a free energy fuel-less motor. It's
>got to be one or the other, right? But how can it be either?

It seems to me to be a fairly standard electrostatic motor as one can
find for instance in the book on Electrostatic Motors by Dr Jefimenco.
The main difference is that instead of having sharp spikes at each
side of the armature, Jean has put large aluminium coated cylinders.
As a result it needs tens of kilovolts to transfer a charge onto the
rotor drum rather than only a few hundred.  The charge transferred to
the insulating surface of the rotor drum is dragged down the potential
hill to the opposite side (in both directions) and forms the driving
force. That is why the faster it rotates the more charge is
transferred and the more current is drawn.

It also explains the necessity of the conducting rotor drum - it
allows all the voltage drop to appear across the small gaps and the
insulating surface at each side of the drum.  If the drum was entirely
inslulating then the voltage gradient would be across the entire
space between the aluminium coated cylinders and would very gentle
indeed - not enough to transfer much charge.  I think the motor
would run on much lower voltage if the aluminium coated cylinders
were replaced by very fine wires, or even a comb of sharp discharge
points, but maybe that is not the object of the excercise ?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 18:55:19 1999
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From: Jon Flickinger 
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JNaudin509@aol.com wrote:

> Dans un courrier daté du 15/09/99 21:23:14é), rick@highsurf.com a écrit :
>
> > Is the source is pulsing HV DC (biased AC)?
>
> pulsing HV DC...

Dear Jean_Louis,

Great work! I have a question regarding your HV power supply. Are you using the
tripler design as indicated on your web site? If so, have you measured the
output capacitance? Would not this capacitance smooth any pulsing of the HV DC?
If you are not using a tripler, could you explain how you are getting the
pulsing HV DC supply?

Jon Flickinger

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 18:55:31 1999
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From: "Timothy Flytcher" 
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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:54:47 PDT
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Please not compressed... or exe. I cant access theses...
Timothy...
>How should I disclose the plans ?
>
>In a web page, a .pdf file, a .ftp site. an .exe file.

______________________________________________________
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 19:41:43 1999
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Subject: Re: PFT Motor mk2 - Update...
From: "Rick Monteverde" 
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John -

> It seems to me to be a fairly standard electrostatic motor as one can
> find for instance in the book on Electrostatic Motors by Dr Jefimenco.
> The main difference is that instead of having sharp spikes at each
> side of the armature, Jean has put large aluminium coated cylinders.
> As a result it needs tens of kilovolts to transfer a charge onto the
> rotor drum rather than only a few hundred.  The charge transferred to
> the insulating surface of the rotor drum is dragged down the potential
> hill to the opposite side (in both directions) and forms the driving
> force. That is why the faster it rotates the more charge is
> transferred and the more current is drawn.
>
> It also explains the necessity of the conducting rotor drum - it
> allows all the voltage drop to appear across the small gaps and the
> insulating surface at each side of the drum.  If the drum was entirely
> inslulating then the voltage gradient would be across the entire
> space between the aluminium coated cylinders and would very gentle
> indeed - not enough to transfer much charge.  I think the motor
> would run on much lower voltage if the aluminium coated cylinders
> were replaced by very fine wires, or even a comb of sharp discharge
> points, but maybe that is not the object of the excercise ?


Sounds like a reasonable explanation. But why would it work better with more
poly wrapping? If it does transfer a good bit of charge by putting it on the
rotor, then with a barrier permiable to electric fields but slow for passing
ions between the stator and rotor, there should be little or no spin then.
So would such a barrier make a good test of your idea? If so -  Jean-Louis,
would you try it?

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 20:45:41 1999
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From: John Winterflood 
Subject: Re: PFT Motor mk2 - Update...
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Rick wrote:
>... But why would it work better with more poly wrapping?

I would guess that some charge is being wasted by leaking *through*
the insulating layer of the rotor to the central conductor.  Charge
following this path does not do any useful spinning work but just
warms up the dielectric through resistive heating.  Putting a thicker
layer on will reduce this effect.  It also may narrow the air gap
between the stator and rotating surface making it easier to transfer
charge.

>If it does transfer a good bit of charge by putting it on the
>rotor, then with a barrier permiable to electric fields but slow for
>passing ions between the stator and rotor, there should be little or
>no spin then.  So would such a barrier make a good test of your idea?

Yes I think an insulating layer on the stators or between the stators
and rotor would slow it down enormously.  There will some leakage of
course and so it may try to run if the voltage is high enough and the
insulation is thin enough.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 22:03:34 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Message-ID: <41d1a90.2511d3f0@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 01:02:40 EDT
Subject: Re: PFT Motor mk2 - Update...
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Dans un courrier daté du 15/09/99 21:50:00é), rick@highsurf.com a écrit :

> I'm having no luck with this link to the RealAudio clip with the propellor
>  on the motor:
>  
>  http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/videos/pftprop.rm
>  
>  All I get is a page full of garbage in the browser instead of the RA
>  document that fires up the player and streams in the video. Anyone else?
>  

Hi Rick,

I have rechecked again my RealVideo file this works fine... May be you need 
the latest RealVideo Player ( V6.0.45 ) you may download freely the soft at :
http://www.real.com/products/player/

Regards,

Jean-Louis

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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 01:09:39 EDT
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Dans un courrier daté du 15/09/99 21:50:00é), rick@highsurf.com a écrit :

> All I get is a page full of garbage in the browser instead of the RA
>  document that fires up the player and streams in the video. Anyone else?

Hi Rick,

If you have a Macintosh, try to launch the RealVideo player and after, open 
the videofile from the application...

Regards,

Jean-Louis

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Jean-Louis


Yup, I'm on a Mac. Got the latest RealPlayer stuff, so I'll try dropping the
address into the window as suggested. Thanks.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

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Fred remarked:

(snip)

>=20
> It seems to me that you are trying to find a reason why nobody has =
gotten a
> free energy device off the ground, in some sort of unwillingness on =
the part
> of the universe to give it to us.  If anything it is an unwillingness =
on the
> part of humanity to receive it.
>=20

 Agreed. "Humanity" just isn't interested, nor is it capable of =
understanding the gift it has already.

Why is it that ninety percent of all the discussions on "free energy" =
and over "unity devices" (here and in other discussion lists), revolve =
so much around electromagnetic or electrical devices?  Is it because we =
think that electrical phenomena somehow holds the key to our dream of a =
clean, "Free energy", "Overunity" source ?
.
Or is it simply because people want some kind of freedom from their =
current major source of energy dependence - the electrical generation =
and distribution utilities ? =20

Can anyone see the wood for the trees?  Electrical energy always was =
"free". And electrical generation has always been "overunity".  It only =
takes half a brain to see that the energy required to construct and run =
a hydroelectric generating and distribution network, is far less than =
the energy that system subsequently generates during the term of its =
practical life.  In fact it would be an extremely difficult technical =
task to design one otherwise.=20

We live in societies that are held in the vice like grip of corrupt =
monetary systems. And all forms of monetary creation is controlled by =
the powerful few, as a debt mechanism, against the credit of society.  =
In which case, it doesn't matter if its "public" or "private" ownership =
of a nations electrical energy generation system. Both are simply a huge =
dead weight around the neck of society. One that has to be payed with =
interest, time and time again, as a never ending perpetual debt.

And you don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand the simple =
arithmetic and implications of that .  What we call "civilisation", =
"humanity" or "society", has simply screwed up another of natures great =
gifts.=20

So what is it that people are really looking for here. Is it simply =
another form of  "free" "overunity" electrical energy generator ? One =
that can't be quite so easily purloined and held as a form of control by =
the powerful few ?=20

Electricity always was "free", and it always was "overunity".  Unless of =
course you are an accountant........:-),  or  unfortunate enough to live =
in a particular European country, that once owned all its own "free =
energy" hydro-electric generating and distribution system. A country =
where the people used electricity freely to meet nearly all their basic, =
domestic energy requirements. A system that was so efficient, and =
produced so much surplus power, that they exported millions of cheap kWh =
annually to neighbouring countries. Today, most of the dams, generators, =
sub-stations and distribution lines have been reduced to a twisted mess =
of steel and rubble by aerial bombardment. And now, without electricity, =
and as winter approaches, the people of a once sophisticated western =
society, face the very real spectre of further suffering and death at =
the hands of the elements.

I reckon Tesla would have had a tear in his eye if he had known that the =
homeland he loved so much, would be reduced to this.

Maybe the universe is unwilling Fred, ......or maybe humanity is still =
just too stupid.

SR

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------

S. N. Rae,
Blenheim,     =20
New Zealand.
srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz




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Fred remarked:


 


(snip)


 


> 
> It seems to me that you are trying to =
find a=20
reason why nobody has gotten a
> free energy device off the =
ground, in=20
some sort of unwillingness on the part
> of the universe to give =
it to=20
us.  If anything it is an unwillingness on the
> part of =
humanity to=20
receive it.
> 


 


 Agreed. "Humanity" just isn't interested, nor =
is it=20
capable of understanding the gift it has already.


 


Why is it that ninety percent of all the discussions =
on "free=20
energy" and over "unity devices" (here and in other discussion lists), =
revolve=20
so much around electromagnetic or electrical devices?  Is it =
because we=20
think that electrical phenomena somehow holds the key to our dream of a =
clean,=20
"Free energy", "Overunity" source ?
.
Or is it simply because =
people want=20
some kind of freedom from their current major source of energy =
dependence - the=20
electrical generation and distribution utilities ?  


 


Can anyone see the wood for the trees?  =
Electrical energy=20
always was "free". And electrical generation has always been =
"overunity". =20
It only takes half a brain to see that the energy required to construct =
and run=20
a hydroelectric generating and distribution network, is far less than =
the energy=20
that system subsequently generates during the term of its practical =
life. =20
In fact it would be an extremely difficult technical task to design one=20
otherwise. 


 


We live in societies that are held in the vice like =
grip of=20
corrupt monetary systems. And all forms of monetary creation is =
controlled by=20
the powerful few, as a debt mechanism, against the credit of =
society.  In=20
which case, it doesn't matter if its "public" or "private" ownership of =
a=20
nations electrical energy generation system. Both are simply a huge dead =
weight=20
around the neck of society. One that has to be payed with interest, time =
and=20
time again, as a never ending perpetual debt.


 


And you don't need to be a rocket scientist to =
understand the=20
simple arithmetic and implications of that .  What we call =
"civilisation",=20
"humanity" or "society", has simply screwed up another of natures great =
gifts.=20



 


So what is it that people are really looking for =
here. Is it=20
simply another form of  "free" "overunity" electrical energy =
generator ?=20
One that can't be quite so easily purloined and held as a form of =
control=20
by the powerful few ? 


 


Electricity always was "free", and it always was=20
"overunity".  Unless of course you are an =
accountant........:-), =20
or  unfortunate enough to live in a particular European country, =
that once=20
owned all its own "free energy" hydro-electric generating and =
distribution=20
system. A country where the people used electricity freely to meet =
nearly all=20
their basic, domestic energy requirements. A system that was so =
efficient, and=20
produced so much surplus power, that they exported millions of cheap kWh =

annually to neighbouring countries. Today, most of the dams, generators, =

sub-stations and distribution lines have been reduced to a twisted mess =
of steel=20
and rubble by aerial bombardment. And now, without electricity, and as =
winter=20
approaches, the people of a once sophisticated western society, face the =
very=20
real spectre of further suffering and death at the hands of the=20
elements.


 


I reckon Tesla would have had a tear in his eye if =
he had=20
known that the homeland he loved so much, would be reduced to =
this.


 


Maybe the universe is unwilling Fred, ......or maybe =
humanity=20
is still just too stupid.


 


SR








S. N. =
Rae,
Blenheim,      
New=20
Zealand.
srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz

=





 


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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 22:45:51 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 01:44:56 EDT
Subject: Re: PFT Motor mk2 - Update...
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Dans un courrier daté du 16/09/99 03:57:56é), jonfli@midusa.net a écrit :

> 
>  Great work! I have a question regarding your HV power supply. Are you 
using 
> the
>  tripler design as indicated on your web site? If so, have you measured the
>  output capacitance? Would not this capacitance smooth any pulsing of the 
HV 
> DC?
>  If you are not using a tripler, could you explain how you are getting the
>  pulsing HV DC supply?
>  

Yes, of course the PFT Motor works well with my HV 30kv Generator (see the 
diagram at :
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/30kvgen.htm ), I have 
also tried with the Wimshurst generator.
So I have noticed that if the DC is a bit pulsed (with sparks or ripple in 
the DC power supply) this works better at higher speed.
So, at this moment I uses the HV power supply from an old computer color 
monitor (IBM 8512002) placed just below my table. The weak ripple in the DC 
output give me the best speed.

Regards,

Jean-Louis Naudin

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 15 22:48:47 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 01:48:11 EDT
Subject: Re: PFT Motor mk2 - Update...
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Dans un courrier daté du 16/09/99 03:51:54é), jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au a 
écrit :

> I think the motor
>  would run on much lower voltage if the aluminium coated cylinders
>  were replaced by very fine wires, or even a comb of sharp discharge
>  points, but maybe that is not the object of the excercise ?
>  
>  

With thin wire or needles in place of the larger cylinder, there is coronna 
effect and strong leakage current ( and a low speed..). This is that I want 
to avoid, because this is not a coronna motor...

Best Regards,

Jean-Louis

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 16 01:13:40 1999
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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:13:14 +0200
From: Stefan Hartmann 
Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de
Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service
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To: Newman-L Mailing List ,
        Scott Thomas , Free Energy 
Subject: Re: Human power source charging cap ! :)
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Well, it was just an experiment I made
to see, what the human body can do
and I was sitting in front (~1Meter away)
from my scope, so probably my body just
receives 50 Hz waves from the powerlines and
this circuit captures it again and rectifies this to the DC at the cap.

These experiments would have to be repeated outdoors,
where no powerlines are near, so one could see,
if this still produces this amount of cap charge.

Well in regards to huge power production it is not 
very efficient I guess...

Regards, Stefan.


Scott Thomas schrieb:
> 
> --- Stefan Hartmann  wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I just used a normal 1 uF non electrolytic capacitor
> > Siemens MKH type 1 uF, 63 Volts max.
> >
> > Then in series with the cap at the left and right
> > side
> > just one 1N4007 diode.
> > Then I just touch the ends of the diodes !
> > No TMB metals with it connected or anything else !
> >
> > I just had the scope with a 101 MOhm scope head
> > connected
> > across the cap and it rises up to 15 to 20 Volts
> > in about half a minute.
> >
> > It also works with just ONE diode, but with 2 diodes
> > the charging is faster !
> >
> >
> anode-DIODE1-cathode-+-capacitor-+-anode-DIODE2-cathode
> >
> > Then I can discharge the cap into an LED and it
> > blinks
> > bright for the millisecond discharge interval.
> >
> >
> > Best regards, Stefan.
> 
> Hi Stefan,
> 
> I must admit that I have been following this thread
> intermittently. However, I understand the basic
> premise of the discussion. Is it your position that a
> usable source of power is available here??? Or, are we
> talking "rug" static electricity power? Can you
> clarify the "target" power source? What is the point
> of lighting a diode, relative to a house, city, or
> planet for that matter?
> 
> I'm not trying to be a "negative energy" source , or
> rain on the parade! :)
> 
> ===
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Thomas
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 16 01:28:18 1999
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        Free Energy 
Subject: Has anybody else studied the commutator spark effects ?
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Hi,

has anybody else studied the commutator spark effects 
at the commutators of the Newman motors yet ?

As Newman himself does not do research into this area
and still claims his motors run on the effect on converting
mass into energy via his gyroscopic particle theory,
I find it very frustrating that nobody cares about the
commutator spark effects that take place and which are probably the only
mysterious effect in Newman motors.

All other effects of a DC motor are there and can be explained
by normal theory.

The only effect is, that through the sparks at the commutator the
input current is reduced and thus the input power into the motor
is reduced at the same RPM, so he might get mechanical overunity 
output.

But this is just related to the oxidation of the electrodes
of the commutator and the buildup of a negative back current pulses.

It is also highly dependable of the commutator electrodes
materials and the negative current pulses seem to be bigger,
if several commutator electrodes are placed in series.

To my understanding it is just some chemical to electrical
energy conversion via this commutator spark gap configuration
by chemical oxidation of the commutator material.

When a Newman motor is run with an electronic transistor
commutator it is just a normal DC motor and does not exhibit any
overunity effect at all !
This is, why so many have failed to reproduce Newman motors.

Best regards, Stefan.

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 16 04:32:50 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:31:47 EDT
Subject: PFT Project - Mirror site
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Hi all,

Due to some failures in the main web site about the PFT Project,

The Miror site about the PFT Project is at :
http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/advprop.htm

Please pass the message...

Regards,

Jean-Louis

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 16 04:42:52 1999
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Date: 16 Sep 99 07:49:22 EDT
From: Horace 
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Subject: Re: [Re: 4-coil, 2-phase ring - Electron Blower]
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Fred,

Thanks for the GIFs on Hooper's pat.  I have received hoop1 through hoop8, do
you have the rest ?  It was just starting to get interesting about some
separation/concentration phenomena.

Also what I've seen described in there creates RADIAL field, and for the
electon blower to exist the field has to be axial or it will not blow my smoke
through the pipe but will distribute it radially inside the pipe.  Radial
means from center to outside circumference.

His rod magnets are parallel to the axis of rotation, for the electron blower
they would have to be perpendicular, wouldn't they ?

Horace

____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1

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On 16-Sep-99 Stuart Rae wrote:
> Why is it that ninety percent of all the discussions on "free energy"
> and over "unity devices" (here and in other discussion lists), revolve
> so much around electromagnetic or electrical devices? 


Possibly because electricity is the current, great energy source.

Send us all back several hundred years and we would all be looking for
perpetual-fire.


Charlie

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 16 06:19:21 1999
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On 16-Sep-99 Stuart Rae wrote:
> Why is it that ninety percent of all the discussions on "free energy"
> and over "unity devices" (here and in other discussion lists), revolve
> so much around electromagnetic or electrical devices? 


Possibly because electricity is the current, great energy source.

Send us all back several hundred years and we would all be looking for
perpetual-fire.


Charlie

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NO, FALSE!!

Because electricity is the most NOBLE and pure form of energy.

You can't do much with heat, unless you want to heat yourself.

But electricity can be converted into heat, mechanical energy, light, etc.

It's the "holy grail" of energy transport.

Hey you make a generator run, and you transmit that "rotation" along copper
lines with no moving parts.

???? What could be better than electricity
Electricity
Nuclear
Mechanical
Light
Heat
??????? what could be worst than heat ?

Charlie Hodgson wrote:

> On 16-Sep-99 Stuart Rae wrote:
> > Why is it that ninety percent of all the discussions on "free energy"
> > and over "unity devices" (here and in other discussion lists), revolve
> > so much around electromagnetic or electrical devices?
>
> Possibly because electricity is the current, great energy source.
>
> Send us all back several hundred years and we would all be looking for
> perpetual-fire.
>
> Charlie

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 16 09:16:37 1999
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However I'll have to agree with that.

However, back several hundread years, they were looking for
perpetual-reciprocating hydraulic systems.

That is an archibald's vise connected to a water wheel, The water climbs up
with the vise and the wheel actionates the vise to make the water climb,
then a shaft powered a grain miller.

But eventually, this didn't work.

Charlie Hodgson wrote:

> Send us all back several hundred years and we would all be looking for
> perpetual-fire.
>
> Charlie

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Patrick,
 
Patrick Tremblay wrote:
> NO, FALSE!!

 You missed my point. 
 Totally.


> Because electricity is the most NOBLE and pure form of energy.
Nobel? Huh!

If it were so Noble, we would not need to worry about EM radiation 
affecting our health. AC is suspected of causing cancers, and at 
high potentials there is the danger of X-Rays.

How many people have expired due to touching a fire they didn't know to be hot?
How many people have expired due to touching a wire they didn't know to be hot?

Nobel indeed. It's an indiscriminate killer.

> You can't do much with heat, unless you want to heat yourself.
> But electricity can be converted into heat, mechanical energy, light, etc.

I spoke of Fire, not heat. Heat is only an attribute of fire.

Fire needs no conversion to heat.
Fire can provide light, without any consumable parts. 
Fire can power steam engines, giving you mechanical energy.


> It's the "holy grail" of energy transport.
> 
> Hey you make a generator run, and you transmit that "rotation" along copper
> lines with no moving parts.

Same with Fire. The lines are pipe, the electrons stream, but it'll work the
same.
(Besides providing electricity, Consolidated Edison provides steam to consumers)


I can generate all the electricity I want by replenishing only the fire.
How much fire can you produce by only replenishing the electricity?


Now my point, for those of you who are still don't get it.

People tend to use existing paradigms when creating new things.
For 100's of millennia, fire was THE energy source.

It gave us heat, allowed us to cook. 
It made metal tools and pottery and glass possible.
It eventually brought us steam and locomotive power.

And innovators of their day worked to make fire better and
more useful.

Then electromagnetism came along.

Innovators forgot fire and worked on electricity. Electricity became King.

What does tomorrow have in store for us? Well if you believe that electricity
is Nobel, then more electricity.

Who knows what form will be needed to extract ZPE, orgone, graviton spin, etc?

Perhaps we will find that ZPE can be used to drive off the OH ion from Sodium
Hydroxide. Back to steam power. 

And as Stuart Rae was getting at, the next Holy Grail may very well involve
some new (or currently ignored) form of energy.

Charlie

In the end, it will only be useful if it can be easily interchanged with
existing forms of energy now used on this planet.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 16 10:20:54 1999
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Evan Soule schrieb:
> 
> >Hi,
> >
> >has anybody else studied the commutator spark effects
> >at the commutators of the Newman motors yet ?
> >
> >As Newman himself does not do research into this area
> >and still claims his motors run on the effect on converting
> >mass into energy via his gyroscopic particle theory,
> >I find it very frustrating that nobody cares about the
> >commutator spark effects that take place and which are probably the only
> >mysterious effect in Newman motors.
> >
> >All other effects of a DC motor are there and can be explained
> >by normal theory.
> >
> >The only effect is, that through the sparks at the commutator the
> >input current is reduced and thus the input power into the motor
> >is reduced at the same RPM, so he might get mechanical overunity
> >output.
> >
> >But this is just related to the oxidation of the electrodes
> >of the commutator and the buildup of a negative back current pulses.
> >
> >It is also highly dependable of the commutator electrodes
> >materials and the negative current pulses seem to be bigger,
> >if several commutator electrodes are placed in series.
> >
> >To my understanding it is just some chemical to electrical
> >energy conversion via this commutator spark gap configuration
> >by chemical oxidation of the commutator material.
> >
> >When a Newman motor is run with an electronic transistor
> >commutator it is just a normal DC motor and does not exhibit any
> >overunity effect at all !
> >This is, why so many have failed to reproduce Newman motors.
> >
> >Best regards, Stefan.
> >
> >--

> 
> Your comments are ridiculous.
> 
> The electrical conversion of the difference between different metals is
> well known.  Any two metals of the same element have NO difference in
> electrical potential.  Read this in any basic chemistry book!
> 
> If anyone is obtaining different results when using an electronic
> transistor commutator, then the transistors are probably doing what Dr.
> Hastings observed years ago: the high BACK SPIKE is going THROUGH the
> transistor.  In fact, Dr. Hastings became so disgusted with transistors
> that he stated at one point, "I will NEVER use transistors again when
> testing the Newman Invention."
> 
> Neither Dr. Hastings nor any chemist or physicist has ever made such a
> ridiculous statement as that made by Stefan Hartmann.  Such individuals
> know that there is a back-spike of current from the collapsing magnetic
> field of a conductor.  Stefan Hartmann says no.  You judge.


Well, of course there is a back current spike from the coil,
which I stated above if you read it again:

> >The only effect is, that through the sparks at the commutator the
> >input current is reduced and thus the input power into the motor
> >is reduced at the same RPM, so he might get mechanical overunity
> >output.
> >


The real effect is, that the back spike enables the commutator
contacts to be oxidized , so with the help of the back spike there
builds up the spark, which oxidates the commutator metal+carbon-brush
plates,
which releases ADDITIONAL ENERGY into the system as electrical energy !

This is NO gyroscopical E=MC^2 ENERGY Mr. Newman, 
it is just chemical energy converted to electrical energy !

If you did not find that out yourself, you have never fully studied
your motors !

Just put(drop)  a bit destilled water onto the commutator plates 
while the motor is running and you will
see, that your huge negative current spikes will vanish, cause then the
sparks are totally different ! It is just a chemical oxidation effect 
at the commutator ! It is highly dependable, who the spark is "ripped
off"
from the carbon brush to the copper commutator segment !
If it makes a hissing sound, then the make- and break- spark(ignition)
produces
a better and bigger negative current spike, which is flowing back to the
battery,
which adds additional energy back to the battery !

You can already test this with a normal transformer coil, if you use a
12 Volts 
battery and the current is high enough, so that a spark will appear, if
you will
brake the circuit.
If you brake the circuit right, so that a hissing spark appears, it will
have
a big negative current spike flowing back to the battery.
This is more energy than just the stored energy inside the magnetic
field
of the transformer coil !

Regards, Stefan Hartmann.

> 
> [Signed]
> Joseph W. Newman
> 
> ____________________
> www.josephnewman.com

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 16 10:38:34 1999
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daveem m schrieb:
> 
> It was my experience when I tried to use the back spike my rotor slowed
> down.

Yes, the back spike happens just as the circuit is opened,
it produced the high voltage pulse, which produces the spark which jumps
of the commutator plates as the commutator rotates.

> I had built a special commutator which shorted out my coil after each
> input segment. 

Then it is already too late in time ! the the back spike
is already done.
With small motors this does not help
and might had only an effect with Newman´s first big motor,
which had a bigger L and C of the coil.

That is why he abandomed to use it with smaller motors.


>Has any one here had any success with being able to use
> the back spike in a way which helped increase the motor speed? Dave
>
Not the motor speed, but if you generate the back spike with tzhe
hissing
sound and use 2 or more breaking points in series ( more than 1 spark
gap
in series) you will have much less input current due to all the sparks
converting chemical energy to negative current spikes and this gives you
less input power at the same RPM !

> PS, I did not hear Stefan say there was no back spike.

Right ! The back current spike is bigger and longer through the
chemical oxidation effect converting chemical energy to electrical
energy
and then flowing back to the battery !

Try it yourself with your motor !

Best regards, Stefan.


> 
> Dave's Alternative Energy.
> http://www.homezen.com/powersys.html,
> 
> Amazing 3700 hour white LED flashlights!
> http://www.homezen.com/powersys/minilite.htm

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From aught@pacbell.net  Thu Sep 16 11:35:03 1999
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hey Bill


have you been before?


first, i ask you politly to keep our discussion to yourself.  what i
want to do will have a much greater impact if no-one knows about it.
that being said...


i want to turn the Man into a huge tesla coil.  i want lightning to
shoot from his head and hands.  i've already spoken with Larry Harvey
and he loves the idea.  time for a change.  besides the obvious
challenge ascoiated with making the Man a tesla coil without clashing
with his "look", there's the neon and fireworks to consider. 

if you (or someone you know) is interested, i thnk i can get the
BurningMan org to fund it. i know most of them personaly.

again. please keep this to yourself. 


thanks


d.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 16 13:56:47 1999
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Hi Rae,
loved the post, best I've read for awhile. Unfortunately there isn't =
enough hydro electric to go round in most places, I have a small one =
that powers my home and my neighbours would all love one aswell but it's =
just not possible. I think what most of us would like is a free source =
of power that isn't dependant on anything else like streams, wind, sun =
or anything that Big Brother can control, like gravity for instance. Why =
is it so elusive, when the world is teeming with energy ? Yes that =
country, those who did that to them should be punished for their crimes =
against humanity.
Trev.
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Stuart Rae=20
  To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com=20
  Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 6:28 AM
  Subject: Re: The Altruism Virus



  Fred remarked:

  (snip)

  >=20
  > It seems to me that you are trying to find a reason why nobody has =
gotten a
  > free energy device off the ground, in some sort of unwillingness on =
the part
  > of the universe to give it to us.  If anything it is an =
unwillingness on the
  > part of humanity to receive it.
  >=20

   Agreed. "Humanity" just isn't interested, nor is it capable of =
understanding the gift it has already.

  Why is it that ninety percent of all the discussions on "free energy" =
and over "unity devices" (here and in other discussion lists), revolve =
so much around electromagnetic or electrical devices?  Is it because we =
think that electrical phenomena somehow holds the key to our dream of a =
clean, "Free energy", "Overunity" source ?
  .
  Or is it simply because people want some kind of freedom from their =
current major source of energy dependence - the electrical generation =
and distribution utilities ? =20

  Can anyone see the wood for the trees?  Electrical energy always was =
"free". And electrical generation has always been "overunity".  It only =
takes half a brain to see that the energy required to construct and run =
a hydroelectric generating and distribution network, is far less than =
the energy that system subsequently generates during the term of its =
practical life.  In fact it would be an extremely difficult technical =
task to design one otherwise.=20

  We live in societies that are held in the vice like grip of corrupt =
monetary systems. And all forms of monetary creation is controlled by =
the powerful few, as a debt mechanism, against the credit of society.  =
In which case, it doesn't matter if its "public" or "private" ownership =
of a nations electrical energy generation system. Both are simply a huge =
dead weight around the neck of society. One that has to be payed with =
interest, time and time again, as a never ending perpetual debt.

  And you don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand the simple =
arithmetic and implications of that .  What we call "civilisation", =
"humanity" or "society", has simply screwed up another of natures great =
gifts.=20

  So what is it that people are really looking for here. Is it simply =
another form of  "free" "overunity" electrical energy generator ? One =
that can't be quite so easily purloined and held as a form of control by =
the powerful few ?=20

  Electricity always was "free", and it always was "overunity".  Unless =
of course you are an accountant........:-),  or  unfortunate enough to =
live in a particular European country, that once owned all its own "free =
energy" hydro-electric generating and distribution system. A country =
where the people used electricity freely to meet nearly all their basic, =
domestic energy requirements. A system that was so efficient, and =
produced so much surplus power, that they exported millions of cheap kWh =
annually to neighbouring countries. Today, most of the dams, generators, =
sub-stations and distribution lines have been reduced to a twisted mess =
of steel and rubble by aerial bombardment. And now, without electricity, =
and as winter approaches, the people of a once sophisticated western =
society, face the very real spectre of further suffering and death at =
the hands of the elements.

  I reckon Tesla would have had a tear in his eye if he had known that =
the homeland he loved so much, would be reduced to this.

  Maybe the universe is unwilling Fred, ......or maybe humanity is still =
just too stupid.

  SR

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----

  S. N. Rae,
  Blenheim,     =20
  New Zealand.
  srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz




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Hi Rae,


loved the post, best I've read for awhile. Unfortunately there =
isn't enough=20
hydro electric to go round in most places, I have a small one that =
powers my=20
home and my neighbours would all love one aswell but it's just not =
possible. I=20
think what most of us would like is a free source of power that isn't =
dependant=20
on anything else like streams, wind, sun or anything that Big Brother =
can=20
control, like gravity for instance. Why is it so elusive, when the world =
is=20
teeming with energy ? Yes that country, those who did that to them =
should be=20
punished for their crimes against humanity.


Trev.


  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  Stuart=20
  Rae 
  
  
Sent: Thursday, September 16, =
1999 6:28=20
  AM

  
Subject: Re: The Altruism =
Virus

  


  
 

  
Fred remarked:

  
 

  
(snip)

  
 

  
> 
> It seems to me that you are trying =
to find a=20
  reason why nobody has gotten a
> free energy device off the =
ground, in=20
  some sort of unwillingness on the part
> of the universe to give =
it to=20
  us.  If anything it is an unwillingness on the
> part of =
humanity=20
  to receive it.
> 

  
 

  
 Agreed. "Humanity" just isn't interested, =
nor is it=20
  capable of understanding the gift it has already.

  
 

  
Why is it that ninety percent of all the =
discussions on=20
  "free energy" and over "unity devices" (here and in other discussion =
lists),=20
  revolve so much around electromagnetic or electrical devices?  Is =
it=20
  because we think that electrical phenomena somehow holds the key to =
our dream=20
  of a clean, "Free energy", "Overunity" source ?
.
Or is it =
simply=20
  because people want some kind of freedom from their current major =
source of=20
  energy dependence - the electrical generation and distribution =
utilities=20
  ?  

  
 

  
Can anyone see the wood for the trees?  =
Electrical=20
  energy always was "free". And electrical generation has always been=20
  "overunity".  It only takes half a brain to see that the energy =
required=20
  to construct and run a hydroelectric generating and distribution =
network, is=20
  far less than the energy that system subsequently generates during the =
term of=20
  its practical life.  In fact it would be an extremely difficult =
technical=20
  task to design one otherwise. 

  
 

  
We live in societies that are held in the vice =
like grip of=20
  corrupt monetary systems. And all forms of monetary creation is =
controlled by=20
  the powerful few, as a debt mechanism, against the credit of =
society.  In=20
  which case, it doesn't matter if its "public" or "private" ownership =
of a=20
  nations electrical energy generation system. Both are simply a huge =
dead=20
  weight around the neck of society. One that has to be payed with =
interest,=20
  time and time again, as a never ending perpetual debt.

  
 

  
And you don't need to be a rocket scientist to =
understand=20
  the simple arithmetic and implications of that .  What we call=20
  "civilisation", "humanity" or "society", has simply screwed up another =
of=20
  natures great gifts. 

  
 

  
So what is it that people are really looking for =
here. Is it=20
  simply another form of  "free" "overunity" electrical energy =
generator ?=20
  One that can't be quite so easily purloined and held as a form of =
control=20
  by the powerful few ? 

  
 

  
Electricity always was "free", and it always was=20
  "overunity".  Unless of course you are an =
accountant........:-), =20
  or  unfortunate enough to live in a particular European country, =
that=20
  once owned all its own "free energy" hydro-electric generating and=20
  distribution system. A country where the people used electricity =
freely to=20
  meet nearly all their basic, domestic energy requirements. A system =
that was=20
  so efficient, and produced so much surplus power, that they exported =
millions=20
  of cheap kWh annually to neighbouring countries. Today, most of the =
dams,=20
  generators, sub-stations and distribution lines have been reduced to a =
twisted=20
  mess of steel and rubble by aerial bombardment. And now, without =
electricity,=20
  and as winter approaches, the people of a once sophisticated western =
society,=20
  face the very real spectre of further suffering and death at the hands =
of the=20
  elements.

  
 

  
I reckon Tesla would have had a tear in his eye if =
he had=20
  known that the homeland he loved so much, would be reduced to=20
  this.

  
 

  
Maybe the universe is unwilling Fred, ......or =
maybe=20
  humanity is still just too stupid.

  
 

  
SR

  

  

  

  
S. N. =
Rae,
Blenheim,     =20
  
New Zealand.
srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz

=


  

  
 


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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 16 13:59:37 1999
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From: tgrimes1@juno.com
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:53:22 -0400
Subject: Plant Energy
Message-ID: <19990916.165326.-429501.1.tgrimes1@juno.com>
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	Although the focus of this group seems to be on overunity devices that
produce electricity, I would like to submit two related ideas for
generating heat and light.  I do not know the efficiency of either of
these methods, but they can be made to be self-contained and they run off
a readily available clean energy source: sunlight.  No, I don't think
that solar cells are the solution to the planet's energy crisis, but
there is no reason why we cannot use sunlight in at least some cases.

	First idea: All vascular plants release O2.  Water plants, such as
Anacharis, can be used to generate a reserve of O2.  This is how to do
it: put a large, clear, funnel over the plants (which are submerged, of
course).  The A. produces O2 whenever it receives light, it generates O2
as bubbles of gas.  The funnel will trap the bubbles.  This much I know
will work.  Then, use the reserve of O2 to more efficiently burn carbon. 
When O2 is generated it displaces water, which pressurizes the O2.  Air
is only 21% O2, so only a fifth as much O2 is needed to completely burn
the carbon (w/o making carbon monoxide!).  The C02 produced can be
released into the atmosphere or converted (at least partially) back into
oxygen by terestrial plants (you know, pump the CO2 into a greenhouse).

	Second idea: Warning! if you are fanatically against solar cells, do not
read this paragraph!  Use the electricity produced by a solar cell bank
to electrolize water and store the H2 and the O2.  What this basically
does is convert light (which is electromagnetic energy) into chemical
energy.  At night, the H2 and O2 can be burned to release light and heat.
 The reaction between H2 and O2 to produce H2O (water) is very
exothermic, so only a very small amount of the gases need to be burned
per unit time.  Plus, the reaction produces water, which can be put back
into the water reservoir to be electrolized again.  No byproducts other
than light and heat!  Also, this is probably more efficient than storing
the electric energy from the solar cells in a battery because when the
energy is stored in a battery it must be converted to light and heat from
there which decreases the efficiency.

	I have not tried either idea yet.  The usual limitations, time and
money, have restrained me.  Also, I would be very happy to hear from
anyone who can provide me with the figures necessary to calculate the
effeciency of either.  I'm only in high school, so you can't expect me to
know everything (yet).  Constructive criticism is welcome.

	-Tom Grimes
___________________________________________________________________
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Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 16 15:43:43 1999
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From: "Red-Leader" 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:43:53 +0000
Subject: Re: Plant Energy
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Tom Grimes wrote:

> 	I have not tried either idea yet.  The usual limitations, time and
> money, have restrained me.  Also, I would be very happy to hear from
> anyone who can provide me with the figures necessary to calculate the
> effeciency of either.  I'm only in high school, so you can't expect me to
> know everything (yet).  Constructive criticism is welcome.

Believe it or not, this idea occoured to me a while back too but I 
haven't done anything with it as far as experiments or anything. I 
think your second idea is a very practical one (using solar cells to 
convert water to H & O2) The only potential problem is storing these 
gases without requiring large amounts of energy to compress them. 
Single solar cells can put out an amp or two but at only .5 volts, so 
you have to have lots in series to charge a battery. Electrolyzing 
water doesn't require much voltage, only current (correct me if I'm 
wrong) so you wouldn't need the huge arrays required to charge 
batteries.

There's my $0.02 worth, no criticism, constructive or otherwise from 
me, I think it's a good idea. But then, I'm also only a high school 
student. Has anybody tried this with any degree of success?


    =====================
       Emmett Hawkins
        "Red-Leader"
    Red-Leader@Dabney.com
    =====================
                

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 16 15:46:45 1999
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From: "Stuart Rae" 
To: "FREENRG-L" 
References: 
Subject: Re: The Altruism Virus - perpetual fire
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:44:35 +1200
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Charlie Hodgson wrote:

(snip)

>=20
> Now my point, for those of you who are still don't get =
it....................
> .................And as Stuart Rae was getting at, the next Holy Grail =
may very well involve
> some new (or currently ignored) form of energy.
>=20

Thank you Charlie. That's exactly what I was getting at. We seem to be =
firmly locked in a closed circle of the existing electrical paradigm.=20

So why try to find new forms of electrical power generation? What's =
wrong with the ones we have now ?
 =20
I have no doubt there are other new, original, novel and exciting ways =
to generate electricity, but they will be hard to find unless we take =
one more mental step away from the physical electrical energy phenomena, =
and look again closely at its origins. =20

I'll stick my neck out even further by saying that when humanity does =
eventually make that step, it will start to understand that electricity, =
magnetism, orgone, heat, light, fire, radiation, matter etc., are simply =
different forms of the same thing.  And it then becomes far simpler to =
generate any required type of physical phenomena directly, rather than =
through the intermediary of a  particular "energy" form.

But can anyone seriously tell me that humanity is actually ready for =
this knowledge? =20

Who here would like to spread such frightening power through the plague =
of world factions who savagely butcher each other daily in the name of =
freedom, national defence, regional interest, ethnic cleansing, =
liberation, religious freedom, annexation, the need for regional =
security and stability, and other insanities. =20

Is there one single country or region on this planet where the =
inhabitants do NOT think it is justified to slaughter themselves of =
others in particular circumstances? I can't think of one off =
hand................or was it once called Tibet?

No, not for me. I think I'd still just keep my lips carefully buttoned =
in lonely silence. And as for deliberately spreading some kind of free =
energy "Altruism Virus", .......... sadly, I reckon it would be a recipe =
for disaster, and serve only to fuel the current plague of human misery =
and destruction we see around our globe.=20

But then on a positive note, I do seriously suspect that a knowledge and =
understanding of the energy source we seek, is apportioned and =
controlled, according to our evolutionary progress.............. =
individually or collectively.

SR

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------

S. N. Rae,
Blenheim,     =20
New Zealand.
srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz

=20



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Charlie Hodgson wrote:


 


(snip)


 


> 
> Now my point, for those of you who are =
still=20
don't get it....................
> .................And as Stuart =
Rae was=20
getting at, the next Holy Grail may very well involve
> some new =
(or=20
currently ignored) form of energy.
> 


 


Thank you Charlie. That's exactly=20
what I was getting at. We seem to be firmly locked in a closed =
circle=20
of the existing electrical paradigm. 


 


So why try to find new forms of electrical power =
generation?=20
What's wrong with the ones we have now ?
  
I have no doubt =
there are=20
other new, original, novel and exciting ways to generate electricity, =
but they=20
will be hard to find unless we take one more mental step away from the =
physical=20
electrical energy phenomena, and look again closely at its =
origins. =20



 


I'll stick my neck out even further by saying that =
when=20
humanity does eventually make that step, it will start to understand =
that=20
electricity, magnetism, orgone, heat, light, fire, radiation, matter =
etc., are=20
simply different forms of the same thing.  And it then becomes far =
simpler=20
to generate any required type of physical phenomena=20
directly, rather than through the intermediary =
of=20
a  particular "energy" form.


 


But can anyone seriously tell me that humanity is =
actually=20
ready for this knowledge?  


 


Who here would like to spread such frightening power =
through=20
the plague of world factions who savagely butcher each other daily in =
the name=20
of freedom, national defence, regional interest, ethnic cleansing,=20
liberation, religious freedom, annexation, the need for regional =
security=20
and stability, and other insanities.  


 


Is there one single country or region on this planet =
where the=20
inhabitants do NOT think it is justified to slaughter=20
themselves of others in particular circumstances? I can't think of =
one off=20
hand................or was it once called Tibet?


 


No, not for me. I think I'd still just keep my lips =
carefully=20
buttoned in lonely silence. And as for deliberately spreading =
some kind of=20
free energy "Altruism Virus", .......... sadly, I reckon it would be a =
recipe=20
for disaster, and serve only to fuel the current plague of human misery =
and=20
destruction we see around our globe. 


 


But then on a positive note, I do =
seriously=20
suspect that a knowledge and understanding of the energy source we seek, =
is=20
apportioned and controlled, according to our evolutionary =
progress..............=20
individually or collectively.


 


SR








S. N. =
Rae,
Blenheim,      
New=20
Zealand.
srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz<=
/DIV>


 


 


 


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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 16 16:03:48 1999
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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:05:41 +0000
From: "Taylor J. Smith" 
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Subject: Re: about disclosure
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> >How should I disclose the plans ?
> >
> >In a web page, a .pdf file, a .ftp site. an .exe file.

Please use a web page and html.  Jack Smith

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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:05:12 -0400
From: patrick tremblay 
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What I meant by noble is simple:

Electricity is considered noble because it is the most practical energy form, it can
be converted into any other form of energy directly and with the less losses.

Now, for the dangers of EM radiation. Hydro-Quebec did studies and they found out
that electricity is okay. It is not a killer. 60Hz AC currents don't affect your
health at all, let alone cancers. That's just a modern paranoia.

Take the guys that work at hydro-quebec, they literally spend their lives working
near high voltage transmission lines, near ? they actually step on them, they
completely become magnetised themselves. None of them have reported illness because
of EM radiation.

Now, that depends on two things: frequency and flux density.

Because no amount of magnetic energy is dangerous to your health unless it starts to
ionise your DNA.

To do this ambient AC EM radiation would have to exceed 2000 teslas or 1 GHz (
giga-hertz) Yes that's 1,000.000.000 Hertz, far from 60 Hertz.

I doubt that the utility will consider microwaves anytime soon.

And about dangers of electricity, imagine what epidemic we would have experimented
with Magnetic Resonance Imagery and with electromagnetic Cranes.

No one reported to be magneticly ill.

However there is one effect that EM radiation WILL do to your health.

They are using Electromagnetic pulses to stimulate the brain without electrical
shocks. This means that the only effect EM radiation will have to your health is
Magnetically induced currents in your brain.

That is you might end up in a state of confusion at worst, but you might not even
notice it at all at best.

electricity is the best form of energy and the cleanest. In the future everything
will be electric.

However I understand what you mean, I can picture myself right now the ancients
trying to make perpetual fire.

Charlie Hodgson wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> Patrick Tremblay wrote:
> > NO, FALSE!!
>
>  You missed my point.
>  Totally.
>
> > Because electricity is the most NOBLE and pure form of energy.
> Nobel? Huh!
>
> If it were so Noble, we would not need to worry about EM radiation
> affecting our health. AC is suspected of causing cancers, and at
> high potentials there is the danger of X-Rays.
>
> How many people have expired due to touching a fire they didn't know to be hot?
> How many people have expired due to touching a wire they didn't know to be hot?
>
> Nobel indeed. It's an indiscriminate killer.
>
> > You can't do much with heat, unless you want to heat yourself.
> > But electricity can be converted into heat, mechanical energy, light, etc.
>
> I spoke of Fire, not heat. Heat is only an attribute of fire.
>
> Fire needs no conversion to heat.
> Fire can provide light, without any consumable parts.
> Fire can power steam engines, giving you mechanical energy.
>
> > It's the "holy grail" of energy transport.
> >
> > Hey you make a generator run, and you transmit that "rotation" along copper
> > lines with no moving parts.
>
> Same with Fire. The lines are pipe, the electrons stream, but it'll work the
> same.
> (Besides providing electricity, Consolidated Edison provides steam to consumers)
>
> I can generate all the electricity I want by replenishing only the fire.
> How much fire can you produce by only replenishing the electricity?
>
> Now my point, for those of you who are still don't get it.
>
> People tend to use existing paradigms when creating new things.
> For 100's of millennia, fire was THE energy source.
>
> It gave us heat, allowed us to cook.
> It made metal tools and pottery and glass possible.
> It eventually brought us steam and locomotive power.
>
> And innovators of their day worked to make fire better and
> more useful.
>
> Then electromagnetism came along.
>
> Innovators forgot fire and worked on electricity. Electricity became King.
>
> What does tomorrow have in store for us? Well if you believe that electricity
> is Nobel, then more electricity.
>
> Who knows what form will be needed to extract ZPE, orgone, graviton spin, etc?
>
> Perhaps we will find that ZPE can be used to drive off the OH ion from Sodium
> Hydroxide. Back to steam power.
>
> And as Stuart Rae was getting at, the next Holy Grail may very well involve
> some new (or currently ignored) form of energy.
>
> Charlie
>
> In the end, it will only be useful if it can be easily interchanged with
> existing forms of energy now used on this planet.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 16 18:32:28 1999
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From: tgrimes1@juno.com
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:19:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Plant Energy
Message-ID: <19990916.212153.-451377.0.tgrimes1@juno.com>
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>The only potential problem is storing these gases without requiring
large amounts of >energy to compress them.

That is true, but the energy can come from an expendable source.  Allow
me to explain.  The purpose of my idea was not to generate industrial
amounts of energy, just enough to be practical for the individual.  So,
you could stretch a spring or lift a weight, etc., to provide the work
necessary to compress the gases.  For example, let's say you had two
inverted jars in a basin of an electrolytic water solution and these jars
had tubes coming up out of the top leading to the combustion chamber. 
Then, all you need to do is raise the air pressure on the surface of the
water and the pressure would be transmitted to the gases.  I don't think
it would take a whole lot of force to make the apparatus work.  The
pressure could be supplied by a hand pump, a spring, a weight, etc. 
There is, of course, much room for improvement here.

	-Tom Grimes
___________________________________________________________________
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 16 19:40:38 1999
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From: "Red-Leader" 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:40:37 +0000
Subject: Re: Plant Energy
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> >The only potential problem is storing these gases without requiring
> large amounts of >energy to compress them.
 
> That is true, but the energy can come from an expendable source.  Allow
> me to explain.  The purpose of my idea was not to generate industrial
> amounts of energy, just enough to be practical for the individual.

I agree. Most of the overunity devices I've read about, the inventor 
is never satisfied with a little free energy, they always want to 
scale it up to try to replace our coal/nucular fired power plants. I 
think this is going in the wrong direction. A much better system 
would be if every home had their own small source of power. No mass 
power outages, no power lines, at least not to rural or residential 
areas. Heck, if I were just able to run this computer for free I'd be 
happy.

> So, you could stretch a spring or lift a weight, etc., to provide the work
> necessary to compress the gases.  For example, let's say you had two
> inverted jars in a basin of an electrolytic water solution and these jars
> had tubes coming up out of the top leading to the combustion chamber. 
> Then, all you need to do is raise the air pressure on the surface of the
> water and the pressure would be transmitted to the gases.  I don't think
> it would take a whole lot of force to make the apparatus work.  The
> pressure could be supplied by a hand pump, a spring, a weight, etc. 
> There is, of course, much room for improvement here.

I see what you're saying. Makes sense. Experimenting with this 
shouldn't be too expensive, unlike building a Newman generator or 
something similar. Data like: how much gas does a specific current 
generate over a given period of time, etc. would help as far as 
seeing whether it's practical or not. I'll see what I can do and come 
up with.



    =====================
       Emmett Hawkins
        "Red-Leader"
    Red-Leader@Dabney.com
    =====================
                

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 16 21:29:30 1999
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From: "Alexander V. Frolov" 
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Red-Leader wrote:

> think your second idea is a very practical one (using solar cells to
> convert water to H & O2) The only potential problem is storing these
> gases without requiring large amounts of energy to compress them.
>

It is wrong point. In 1888 Russian Dr. Latchinov, author of first patent for
water electrolytical decomposition (i.e. author of electrolysis) discovered the
fact: normal gas or high pressure gas can be produced by the same electric
power. Electrolysis is the way for gas compression.

Solar panel is good also but power from water decomposition-composition is
closed cycle way, i.e. perpetual motion in nature.

Alexander V. Frolov

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 16 21:33:54 1999
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Wow Tom... I like the way you think!!! just don't let age fool you... like 
nike says.... just do it! ... try it on a small scale... if it works you can 
always scale up your model latter... science fair maternal???
>
>	Although the focus of this group seems to be on overunity devices that
>produce electricity, I would like to submit two related ideas for
>generating heat and light.  I do not know the efficiency of either of
>these methods, but they can be made to be self-contained and they run off
>a readily available clean energy source: sunlight.  No, I don't think
>that solar cells are the solution to the planet's energy crisis, but
>there is no reason why we cannot use sunlight in at least some cases.
>
>	First idea: All vascular plants release O2.  Water plants, such as
>Anacharis, can be used to generate a reserve of O2.  This is how to do
>it: put a large, clear, funnel over the plants (which are submerged, of
>course).  The A. produces O2 whenever it receives light, it generates O2
>as bubbles of gas.  The funnel will trap the bubbles.  This much I know
>will work.  Then, use the reserve of O2 to more efficiently burn carbon.
>When O2 is generated it displaces water, which pressurizes the O2.  Air
>is only 21% O2, so only a fifth as much O2 is needed to completely burn
>the carbon (w/o making carbon monoxide!).  The C02 produced can be
>released into the atmosphere or converted (at least partially) back into
>oxygen by terestrial plants (you know, pump the CO2 into a greenhouse).
>
>	Second idea: Warning! if you are fanatically against solar cells, do not
>read this paragraph!  Use the electricity produced by a solar cell bank
>to electrolize water and store the H2 and the O2.  What this basically
>does is convert light (which is electromagnetic energy) into chemical
>energy.  At night, the H2 and O2 can be burned to release light and heat.
>  The reaction between H2 and O2 to produce H2O (water) is very
>exothermic, so only a very small amount of the gases need to be burned
>per unit time.  Plus, the reaction produces water, which can be put back
>into the water reservoir to be electrolized again.  No byproducts other
>than light and heat!  Also, this is probably more efficient than storing
>the electric energy from the solar cells in a battery because when the
>energy is stored in a battery it must be converted to light and heat from
>there which decreases the efficiency.
>
>	I have not tried either idea yet.  The usual limitations, time and
>money, have restrained me.  Also, I would be very happy to hear from
>anyone who can provide me with the figures necessary to calculate the
>effeciency of either.  I'm only in high school, so you can't expect me to
>know everything (yet).  Constructive criticism is welcome.
>
>	-Tom Grimes

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 16 21:47:18 1999
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>
>electricity is the best form of energy and the cleanest. In the future 
>everything
>will be electric.
>
I just can't see this!!! there are too many other things out there!!! This 
just seem too close minded...
Timothy...

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 16 22:38:10 1999
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Subject: Re: Plant Energy
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>It is wrong point. In 1888 Russian Dr. Latchinov, author of first >patent 
>for
>water electrolytical decomposition (i.e. author of electrolysis) 
> >discovered the
>fact: normal gas or high pressure gas can be produced by the same >electric
>power. Electrolysis is the way for gas compression.

I was under the understanding that pressure reduced the gas formation???
is this wrong???

Timothy...

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 01:36:00 1999
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Yes. Electrolysis is the way for high pressure gas production. Electric power is
the same. Really, gas can be produced without electric current but only by means
of potential field. There are simple experiments: put one electrode in water and
other electrode should be insulated from water. There is gas production also.

Lathinov discovered the fact for electrolytical cell self-cooling when its gas
output is high pressure gas. Why? The Law for Energy Conservation is working! It
is necessary to take heat energy from water molecules to produce over-unity
power.

Alexander V. Frolov

Timothy Flytcher wrote:

> >It is wrong point. In 1888 Russian Dr. Latchinov, author of first >patent
> >for
> >water electrolytical decomposition (i.e. author of electrolysis)
> > >discovered the
> >fact: normal gas or high pressure gas can be produced by the same >electric
> >power. Electrolysis is the way for gas compression.
>
> I was under the understanding that pressure reduced the gas formation???
> is this wrong???
>
> Timothy...
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 06:20:41 1999
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From: Charlie Hodgson 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: The Altruism Virus - perpetual fire
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Patrick, you're taking this *way* too seriously. 

If I get anymore tounge-in-cheek then I already have I'll wind
up with a second mouth.


On 16-Sep-99 patrick tremblay wrote:
> Hydro-Quebec did studies and they found out that electricity is okay.
> It is not a killer.

I guess the electric chair is a figment of my imagination. I've heard the 
same, at one time or another, about DDT, asbestos and scores of other
(at one time) everyday items.

Seriously, I'm surprised to find anyone on this list citing safety
information performed by the culprits. I thought we were more skeptical
than that.

It's O.K. You build your house under Hydro-Quebec's 345kV transmission
lines. I'll listen to my Feng Shui practitioner and stay as far away
as possible.


I'm not denying that electricity was, and continues to be, a wonderful
discovery. Of all we the forms of energy we have available today,
electricity is probably the safest and is definitely the most convenient.
Try storing stream or fire in a small cylinder for use 3 years from now.

What I am saying is that by some tomorrow, we will wake up and find 
electricity relegated to the status of old technology. Then, over time,
many things we do today with electricity will be done using this new
discovery.  We will probably still produce electricity, but electricity
will no longer be king.

As an exercise, let's assume that gravity waves can be manipulated in
such a way as to provide localized variations along an axis. We could
use this to create an FE peristaltic pump. 

What can we do with it?

Your answer will be an indication of your imagination, creativity and
how far out of the proverbial box you can think.

Charlie


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 06:51:13 1999
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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:49:24 -0400
From: Jim Springer 
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Hello all,

Stuart Rae wrote:
>But can anyone seriously tell me that humanity is actually ready for this knowledge?  

Ah, but who are we to decide whether humanity is ready or not?

>Who here would like to spread such frightening power through the plague of world factions who
>savagely butcher each other daily in the name of freedom, national defence, regional interest, ethnic
>cleansing, liberation, religious freedom, annexation, the need for regional security and stability, and
>other insanities.  
>Is there one single country or region on this planet where the inhabitants do NOT think it is justified to
>slaughter themselves of others in particular circumstances? I can't think of one off hand................or
>was it once called Tibet?

We're not here to solve all the worlds problems, nor are we deliberately
trying to create more problems. The worlds people have had their own
problems since day one and will always have problems till the end of
time that is just the nature of things. I believe the idea is to release
the people from the BONDAGE of CONTROL to allow them to be more
independent. I personally believe that if you have no one to blame your
problems on but yourself a lot of the major problems go away. Allow the
people to be self sufficient or at least give them the option. Right now
there aren't too many options.

>No, not for me. I think I'd still just keep my lips carefully buttoned in lonely silence. And as for
>deliberately spreading some kind of free energy "Altruism Virus", .......... sadly, I reckon it would be a
>recipe for disaster, and serve only to fuel the current plague of human misery and destruction we see
>around our globe. 

Information is useless unless it is shared. That's why we are still
scrambling trying to understand the works of people like Tesla, Keely
etc... It is also the cause of certain people who sit back and say "I
know this, I'll disclose my information if you pay $$$" and then nothing
materializes. I personally think that freedom of information causes
advancement as a whole. Withholding information advances few or none.


Just my 2 cents worth, flame away !!!!

-- 
"Education is what is left when
 you have forgotten everything
 you learned in school."
	Albert Einstein, 1936

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 08:59:16 1999
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From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann)
Subject: DISCLOSURE: How the Newman motors might really work
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 99  16:55:44 +0100
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DISCLOSURE. Berlin on the 17th of Sept. 1999

Hi All,
this is a disclosure of my ongoing "battle"
for about 15 years of experiments, investigation and pondering
about the Newman technology and I guess I have now understood
the real effects behind the technology.

I don´t want to discredit Mr. Newman with his gyroscopical particle
theory, which might explain certain things of his motors and other effects
but I guess the real working principle lies in the secret
of the spark gap of his commutators.

I just want to explain it with the help of 2 examples,
so it gets clearer.

This is what I found out:


The electrical current input into the motors highly depends on the
commutator-brush contact configuration.
If there is no "hissing(zapping) sound" arcing at the
commutator, there is NO big back current spike, which (averaged over
one cycles) reduces the input current and thus the average DC input power.

Let us see the 
1. example:

Suppose we have a normal DC motor that is 90 % efficient from mechanical
output versus
electrical input.
If we put in 10 Watts of electrical power, we get out 9 Watts of mechanical
power
running a mechanical load (e.g. a friction based prony brake).

Suppose we use 10 Volts DC as the supply voltage and 1 Ampere as the input 
current= 10 Watts of electrical input power.
With the normal motor there is not much arcing, cause the coils don´t have 
a big L and the switching is done at a time, when the coils don´t have stored
magnetic energy.

Now, we take a Newman motor, which has large coils with big L and C inside.
We now first suppose, that the mechanical efficiency is again 90 %
and that again 10 Watts DC is inputed into the motor,
but this time with 100 Volts and 100 milliAmps.

Again the motor produces 9 Watts of mechanical power at the prony brake load.

But now comes into play the arcing at the commutator.

As the commutator carbon brushes are oxidized when the circuit opens
and the spark jumps, it converts the dust of the Carbon brush probably to CO2
and so this oxidation process converts somehow stored chemical energy into
an energy pulse, which shows on a scope as a bigger and longer lasting back
current spike.
This bigger and longer lasting back current spike 
(flowing back to the battery) now REDUCES in AVERAGE
the input current (when measured over one total cycle)
and thus we have less input power.
This way the input current, which was previously 100 milliAmps
DROPS to maybe an average of 50 milliamps and now we just have
5 Watts of electrical input power versus still 9 Watts 
of mechanical output power !

This is the way to get a 180 % mechanical efficiency versus
electrical input !

But you have to see, that the Newman motor can not break
in any way the Lenz law and thus it works on the same
principles as other DC motors which also generate BACK-EMF
when the rotor rotates and induce back EMF into the coil and
thus can not go over 100 % without ADDITIONAL HELP.

The ADDITIONAL HELP is the reducing of the average input current
via the conversion of chemical energy to electrical energy
during sparking.

The positive input current is still the same (during contact of brush
and commutator plate), but when the brush leaves the commutator plate
and the spark occurs (opening the contact), 
there is a longer lasting and bigger back current spike, due to the
oxidation arc.
(it has much more energy than the normal back current pulse of the stored
magnetic energy (0.5LI^2)of the coil)

In addition this bigger back current pulse might propell the PM rotor
some more, when the phase angle is in the correct relationship mechanically,
so it pushes the rotor some more.

Remember: the main effect is the ADDITIONAL power generation via the
oxidation of commutator brush material !


2. example:

I refer to 
the test, when 8 DEAD dry batteries were connected to an earlier
bigger model of Mr. Newman´s motor and the running on this Newman machine
did recharge the batteries and they were able to run a different load
much longer, when the Newman machine was disconnected and another load
was connected to them. So running the Newman machine did recharge the batteries,
so the Newman motor produced negative input power over the total of running
time.

You could see on the video tape, that there also was some kind of 
"hissing sound" sparking going
on at the commutator, so as the batteries might have drawn an average of 5
milliamps of POSITIVE input current when the commutator did make contact, 
they might have got back an average of 10 milliamps NEGATIVE back current
over ony cycle, when the contact of the commutator opened and the arc
oxidized the brushes,
so the TOTAL input current was MINUS 5 MilliAmps  (negative) !
So electrical power was coming out of the motor !
So indeed the batteries got recharged !
But not based on E=MC^2, but just via the oxidation energy converted to
electrial
output energy back into the batteries !

So I urge everyone who wants to build a Newman motor
to look first at the commutator effects and the sparks there and
to study what chemical energy effects are going on there at the spark gaps so
there could be found a way to scale them up and this might be used for higher
output energy production, also with smaller coils and thus using less
copper.

Thanks for reading.

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
--
Hartmann Multimedia Service
Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann
WEB-Site: www.harti.com  www.ccard.net
email: harti@harti.com   info@ccard.net


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From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann)
Subject: My Reply to Mr. Newman and the water test...
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 99  16:55:39 +0100
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Hi All,
this answer is very important, so read it carefully !


At 22:44 16.09.99 -0600, Newman-L Mailing List wrote:
>Hartmann writes:
>>The real effect is, that the back spike enables the commutator
>>contacts to be oxidized , so with the help of the back spike there
>>builds up the spark, which oxidates the commutator metal+carbon-brush
>>plates,
>>which releases ADDITIONAL ENERGY into the system as electrical energy !
>>
>>This is NO gyroscopical E=MC^2 ENERGY Mr. Newman,
>>it is just chemical energy converted to electrical energy !
>>
>>If you did not find that out yourself, you have never fully studied
>>your motors !
>>
>>Just put(drop)  a bit destilled water onto the commutator plates
>>while the motor is running and you will
>>see, that your huge negative current spikes will vanish, cause then the
>>sparks are totally different ! It is just a chemical oxidation effect
>>at the commutator ! It is highly dependable, who the spark is "ripped
>>off"
>>from the carbon brush to the copper commutator segment!
>
>______________________
>
>Joseph Newman writes:
>
>That is an idiotic statement. Your drop of water is instantly "polluted"
>when dropped on the gap of the break. It is then CONDUCTING, causing a
>partial SHORT OUT! --- And REDUCING sparking!


Well, yes, of course it should not be used with your normal motors,
cause there it would shortout the battery !
It should be just tried with your linear reciprocating unit for a short test.

When destilled water is put on the surface across an
on-off-switch-commutator-brush-contact
you will a have totally different break-off current inside the coil
and thus the spark will be less. Then the AVERAGE input current
(measured over a few on-off cycles)
into the coil will RISE !
You loose the big back current pulse, which normally adds energy
back to your battery, cause you don´t have the chemical oxidation burn-out
effect anymore.
This will increase the input current to a normal level of a motor
that does NOT run on this effect, cause your negative current spikes 
will be much shorter in time and just the stored magnetic energy of the coils
will be released, but NOT anymore the ADDITIONAL chemical oxidation 
energy of the jumping arc !

This was just a proposal for a short test. 
Better it is done  with just
a Newman coil (not a motor) and with a battery (or power supply)
and a commutator plate and brush opening manually the circuit.

Then you can exactly see, how the spark is building up,
when you pull out fast the brush from the commutator plate manually.
(of course insolated from your hand, so you don´t get a HV shock!)

It also depends, how fast you pull off the brush from the plate and 
what color the spark has and what sound it makes.
(depends on brush-plate material)



>______________________
>
>
>>If it makes a hissing sound, then the make- and break- spark(ignition)
>>produces
>>a better and bigger negative current spike, which is flowing back to the
>>battery,
>>which adds additional energy back to the battery !
>>
>>You can already test this with a normal transformer coil, if you use a
>>12 Volts
>>battery and the current is high enough, so that a spark will appear, if
>>you will
>>brake the circuit.
>>If you brake the circuit right, so that a hissing spark appears, it will
>>have
>>a big negative current spike flowing back to the battery.
>>This is more energy than just the stored energy inside the magnetic
>>field
>>of the transformer coil !
>>
>>Regards, Stefan Hartmann.
>>
>
>______________________
>
>Hartmann:
>
>You are still either an idiot or a liar!
>You better study chemistry before you make your remarks.
>
>Oxidation causes ANY conducting object to become NON-conducting.  If what
>you were saying was true, then BOTH contact surfaces would have such high
>oxidation that the motor would not run.  (See comment above regarding the
>"drop of water" and resultant partial short-out.)

I mean the oxidation, which takes place, when the spark builds up and
the arc is jumping.
It might just oxidize the carbon brush to CO2 using the carbon dust, which is
scratched off during rotation contact.
This oxidation energy is then somehow converted to an electrical
back current spike pulse, which recharges the battery (power supply)

This effect must be studied more in depth and indeed I have not
studied chemistry much, but I had it a few years in high school.



>And you are a total idiot if you state that the BACK SPIKE that Dr.
>Hastings calculated at 75,000 Watts (for my large 10,000-lb Motor) came
>from "oxidation".  

Your bigger motors also had bigger coils with bigger
L and inner self-capacitance.

This magnetic and electric charge of the coil is just 
released, when the electrical circuit opens and thus
it can drive the spark and arc longer, thus also
the oxidation time is longer, which adds more
chemical to electrical conversion energy.


>It produces _lightning_ as seen on my videotapes.

Yes, exactly and one could also see, that the carbon brush
burned even brighter, when it opened the circuit and the arc was jumping,
so the oxidation was even heavier taking place !
How long did the carbon brushes last with this burning _lightning_?
Probably not too long !



>Chemical energy conversion very quickly destroys the elements of the
>battery.  So this is also true of the materials I discuss --- because for
>years I used ceramic in the breaks and the conducting surfaces lasted for
>years.

But not your brushes in your first motors !
They burned off quickly from the arc _lightning_ !

>  By your comments, any chemist would also know that you are an
>idiot!  If what you are saying was true, then every conventional motor
>would be over 100% efficient!  They are NOT!
>

No, they are designed to supress the arcs and they just switch the current,
when the magnetic energy inside the coils is almost zero,
so there is not much oxidation of carbon brushes.


>I designed and constructed my Motor after investing years in the full
>development of my Theory.  Then the Motors work EXACTLY as I predicted.

Well, your theory might explain certain things, but not the
staircase back current spike, which only take place, when the RIGHT
ARC jumps. You can really see it with the water test on the
contact material !

I will write a longer "disclosure article" now to tell everybody
how I think the motors work witha few examples of power
calculation.

After about 15 years of experiments, investigation and pondering
about your technology I guess it just depends on the commutator
arcs.

Regards, Stefan Hartmann.

>
>[Signed]
>Joseph W. Newman
>
>
>
--
Hartmann Multimedia Service
Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann
WEB-Site: www.harti.com  www.ccard.net
email: harti@harti.com   info@ccard.net


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 10:35:23 1999
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Sender: chuck@samd.atl.s2systems.com
From: Charlie Hodgson 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: DISCLOSURE: How the Newman motors might really work
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On 17-Sep-99 Stefan Hartmann wrote:
> DISCLOSURE. Berlin on the 17th of Sept. 1999

So what you are saying is that the excess electricity is really
the two free electrons liberated during the conversion of 
C + 02 -> C02:


    e
    |
  e-C-e  + O=O + spark ->    O=C=O + e + e
    |
    e

Interesting.

This should be fairly easy to test, without the need of a motor.

Create a series of spark gaps consisting of graphite and copper
(one on each side of the gap). String a few of these in series 
and supply some HV. Measure the input and output power and
see what you get.

While we don't have carbon dust created from wear, we should have
microscopic carbon particles created from the physical shock of
the spark.

OU will show that the motor is not needed, though it won't prove
that the effect is electrochemical. The easiest way to 'prove' it,
(or at least to see if you're on the right track) would be to perform
this in a closed, oxygen enriched enviorment. The reaction would stop
once all the 02 was converted to CO2. Since the number of moles
doesn't change in the conversion, there should be no pressure change.

There is the problem of what becomes of the liberated electrons,
(somebody MUST sink them), but that's a differnet problem. 

Charlie

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 12:03:02 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:02:21 EDT
Subject: Great book out!
To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Hi all,
You may already know about this book, but if you don't, look it up on 
amazon.com and read the reviews, I watched a special on television last night 
on the book.
It's  title is, The Elegant Universe
Great reading!
Butch

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 12:08:03 1999
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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:55:16 -0700
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List)
From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey)
Subject: Data Needed on Your R&D Devices
Cc: pgb@padrak.com (BCC: Energy_Send_,List)
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The Institute for New Enegry maintains a database of all the new devices of
interest to advanced energy conversion, free-energy, and zero-point-energy
researchers.

I want to keep this data as up-to-date as possible.


We currently have over 130 devices listed,
with a detailed data page on each device!


All the HTML files (> 140) come from one spreadsheet. that I maintain.


To look at what we have, see:

http://www.padrak.com/ine/DBGUIDE.html


To submit changes and new devices into this database, use ONLY:

http://www.padrak.com/ine/DBTEMPLATE.html


You agree to be honest and of high integrity in your submissions, or you
will not get another chance to list or make any changes with us.

Thank You for your efforts.


Working together, we can make things happen!

Patrick Bailey
President, INE


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 13:37:17 1999
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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:36:16 -0700
From: "Robert Decker" 
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Being a major partisipant in testing of many devices explored by ATGROUP now NES I have seen the on this list the gross malinement of its overall goals.

I just returned from their new site and found a very stirring and insightful Essay by the person behind the work they have been doing for many years now.

If your the die hard scientist don't waste your time, but if you really give a damn about humanity, you should find this very interesting indeed.

Bob.


Visit FindLaw at http://www.findlaw.com for free case law, web guide, and legal news, and get your free @JusticeMail.com address at http://www.justicemail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 13:48:29 1999
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From: "Axehandler" 
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Subject: Re: My Reply to Mr. Newman and the water test...
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:49:55 -0500
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I don't usually reply to these..... but I do have to commend Stefan, for not
remarking on the name calling that Newman resorted to in his reply....
Looking at the conversation/e-mails I assume you both are looking at
diffrent portions of the moter and chemical reactions.. and weren't on the
same LEVEL of communication about what exactly was being seen..... I would
recommend that that Newman be a bit more open minded and ask questions to
make sure he is understanding what is said. Everyone makes mistakes.

Larry


-----Original Message-----
From: Stefan Hartmann 
To: Newman-L Mailing List ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com

Date: Friday, September 17, 1999 10:59 AM
Subject: My Reply to Mr. Newman and the water test...


>Hi All,
>this answer is very important, so read it carefully !
>
>
>At 22:44 16.09.99 -0600, Newman-L Mailing List wrote:
>>Hartmann writes:
>>>The real effect is, that the back spike enables the commutator
>>>contacts to be oxidized , so with the help of the back spike there
>>>builds up the spark, which oxidates the commutator metal+carbon-brush
>>>plates,
>>>which releases ADDITIONAL ENERGY into the system as electrical energy !
>>>
>>>This is NO gyroscopical E=MC^2 ENERGY Mr. Newman,
>>>it is just chemical energy converted to electrical energy !
>>>
>>>If you did not find that out yourself, you have never fully studied
>>>your motors !
>>>
>>>Just put(drop)  a bit destilled water onto the commutator plates
>>>while the motor is running and you will
>>>see, that your huge negative current spikes will vanish, cause then the
>>>sparks are totally different ! It is just a chemical oxidation effect
>>>at the commutator ! It is highly dependable, who the spark is "ripped
>>>off"
>>>from the carbon brush to the copper commutator segment!
>>
>>______________________
>>
>>Joseph Newman writes:
>>
>>That is an idiotic statement. Your drop of water is instantly "polluted"
>>when dropped on the gap of the break. It is then CONDUCTING, causing a
>>partial SHORT OUT! --- And REDUCING sparking!
>
>
>Well, yes, of course it should not be used with your normal motors,
>cause there it would shortout the battery !
>It should be just tried with your linear reciprocating unit for a short
test.
>
>When destilled water is put on the surface across an
>on-off-switch-commutator-brush-contact
>you will a have totally different break-off current inside the coil
>and thus the spark will be less. Then the AVERAGE input current
>(measured over a few on-off cycles)
>into the coil will RISE !
>You loose the big back current pulse, which normally adds energy
>back to your battery, cause you don´t have the chemical oxidation burn-out
>effect anymore.
>This will increase the input current to a normal level of a motor
>that does NOT run on this effect, cause your negative current spikes
>will be much shorter in time and just the stored magnetic energy of the
coils
>will be released, but NOT anymore the ADDITIONAL chemical oxidation
>energy of the jumping arc !
>
>This was just a proposal for a short test.
>Better it is done  with just
>a Newman coil (not a motor) and with a battery (or power supply)
>and a commutator plate and brush opening manually the circuit.
>
>Then you can exactly see, how the spark is building up,
>when you pull out fast the brush from the commutator plate manually.
>(of course insolated from your hand, so you don´t get a HV shock!)
>
>It also depends, how fast you pull off the brush from the plate and
>what color the spark has and what sound it makes.
>(depends on brush-plate material)
>
>
>
>>______________________
>>
>>
>>>If it makes a hissing sound, then the make- and break- spark(ignition)
>>>produces
>>>a better and bigger negative current spike, which is flowing back to the
>>>battery,
>>>which adds additional energy back to the battery !
>>>
>>>You can already test this with a normal transformer coil, if you use a
>>>12 Volts
>>>battery and the current is high enough, so that a spark will appear, if
>>>you will
>>>brake the circuit.
>>>If you brake the circuit right, so that a hissing spark appears, it will
>>>have
>>>a big negative current spike flowing back to the battery.
>>>This is more energy than just the stored energy inside the magnetic
>>>field
>>>of the transformer coil !
>>>
>>>Regards, Stefan Hartmann.
>>>
>>
>>______________________
>>
>>Hartmann:
>>
>>You are still either an idiot or a liar!
>>You better study chemistry before you make your remarks.
>>
>>Oxidation causes ANY conducting object to become NON-conducting.  If what
>>you were saying was true, then BOTH contact surfaces would have such high
>>oxidation that the motor would not run.  (See comment above regarding the
>>"drop of water" and resultant partial short-out.)
>
>I mean the oxidation, which takes place, when the spark builds up and
>the arc is jumping.
>It might just oxidize the carbon brush to CO2 using the carbon dust, which
is
>scratched off during rotation contact.
>This oxidation energy is then somehow converted to an electrical
>back current spike pulse, which recharges the battery (power supply)
>
>This effect must be studied more in depth and indeed I have not
>studied chemistry much, but I had it a few years in high school.
>
>
>
>>And you are a total idiot if you state that the BACK SPIKE that Dr.
>>Hastings calculated at 75,000 Watts (for my large 10,000-lb Motor) came
>>from "oxidation".
>
>Your bigger motors also had bigger coils with bigger
>L and inner self-capacitance.
>
>This magnetic and electric charge of the coil is just
>released, when the electrical circuit opens and thus
>it can drive the spark and arc longer, thus also
>the oxidation time is longer, which adds more
>chemical to electrical conversion energy.
>
>
>>It produces _lightning_ as seen on my videotapes.
>
>Yes, exactly and one could also see, that the carbon brush
>burned even brighter, when it opened the circuit and the arc was jumping,
>so the oxidation was even heavier taking place !
>How long did the carbon brushes last with this burning _lightning_?
>Probably not too long !
>
>
>
>>Chemical energy conversion very quickly destroys the elements of the
>>battery.  So this is also true of the materials I discuss --- because for
>>years I used ceramic in the breaks and the conducting surfaces lasted for
>>years.
>
>But not your brushes in your first motors !
>They burned off quickly from the arc _lightning_ !
>
>>  By your comments, any chemist would also know that you are an
>>idiot!  If what you are saying was true, then every conventional motor
>>would be over 100% efficient!  They are NOT!
>>
>
>No, they are designed to supress the arcs and they just switch the current,
>when the magnetic energy inside the coils is almost zero,
>so there is not much oxidation of carbon brushes.
>
>
>>I designed and constructed my Motor after investing years in the full
>>development of my Theory.  Then the Motors work EXACTLY as I predicted.
>
>Well, your theory might explain certain things, but not the
>staircase back current spike, which only take place, when the RIGHT
>ARC jumps. You can really see it with the water test on the
>contact material !
>
>I will write a longer "disclosure article" now to tell everybody
>how I think the motors work witha few examples of power
>calculation.
>
>After about 15 years of experiments, investigation and pondering
>about your technology I guess it just depends on the commutator
>arcs.
>
>Regards, Stefan Hartmann.
>
>>
>>[Signed]
>>Joseph W. Newman
>>
>>
>>
>--
>Hartmann Multimedia Service
>Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann
>WEB-Site: www.harti.com  www.ccard.net
>email: harti@harti.com   info@ccard.net
>
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 14:00:38 1999
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From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann)
Subject: RE: DISCLOSURE: How the Newman motors might really work
Cc: Newman-L Mailing List 
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 99  21:56:51 +0100
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At 13:42 17.09.99 -0400, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote:
>
>On 17-Sep-99 Stefan Hartmann wrote:
>> DISCLOSURE. Berlin on the 17th of Sept. 1999
>
>So what you are saying is that the excess electricity is really
>the two free electrons liberated during the conversion of 
>C + 02 -> C02:
>
>
>    e
>    |
>  e-C-e  + O=O + spark ->    O=C=O + e + e
>    |
>    e
>
>Interesting.

Yes, indeed !
These 2 electrons might produce the
"overunity" power in Newman´s earlier
motors.

>
>This should be fairly easy to test, without the need of a motor.
>

Yes.

>Create a series of spark gaps consisting of graphite and copper
>(one on each side of the gap). String a few of these in series 
>and supply some HV. Measure the input and output power and
>see what you get.

I guess some coils are still needed to get the jumping arc
effect !
Otherwise how would you control the arcing ?
Would you run the arcing constantly ?

>
>While we don't have carbon dust created from wear, we should have
>microscopic carbon particles created from the physical shock of
>the spark.


I agree.

>
>OU will show that the motor is not needed, though it won't prove
>that the effect is electrochemical. The easiest way to 'prove' it,
>(or at least to see if you're on the right track) would be to perform
>this in a closed, oxygen enriched enviorment. The reaction would stop
>once all the 02 was converted to CO2. 

I see, sounds good this tip.


>Since the number of moles
>doesn't change in the conversion, there should be no pressure change.
>
Okay.

>There is the problem of what becomes of the liberated electrons,
>(somebody MUST sink them), but that's a differnet problem. 

Well these 2 electroms just flow as the additional energy
into the circuit, thus producing these
negative huge current spikes !


I guess we are now very near to the final conclusion.

If this turns out NOT to be at all chemical, then it is most probably that
at the commutator spark gap is taking place an effect like the Correa
or Chernetski self generating plasma discharge !
These 2 effects also add additional power, when the arcing is running.

Best regards, Stefan.

>
>Charlie
>
>
--
Hartmann Multimedia Service
Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann
WEB-Site: www.harti.com  www.ccard.net
email: harti@harti.com   info@ccard.net


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 14:13:40 1999
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From: Keasy@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:07:11 EDT
Subject: Meetings for free electricity machine???
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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    Today there is a full page ad in USA Today by "United Community Services" 
describing a free energy machine (among other things).  They are holding 
meetings around the country --about 45 between now and Nov. 8-- to 
demonstrate  a "counter rotation" technology discovered by Better World 
Technology, Inc.  Included are "electric motors that are way over 200% 
efficient".  A picture of a motor (?) is in the ad. 
    Does anyone know what this might be about??
                                                                              
Ken

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 14:23:02 1999
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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:22:50 -0700
From: D Adams 
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hi, what makes it a great book?

HLafonte@aol.com wrote:

> Hi all,
> You may already know about this book, but if you don't, look it up on
> amazon.com and read the reviews, I watched a special on television last night
> on the book.
> It's  title is, The Elegant Universe
> Great reading!
> Butch



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 15:14:52 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
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In a message dated 9/17/99 4:25:34 PM Central Daylight Time, 
donadams@telusplanet.net writes:

> hi, what makes it a great book?
Just read the reviews at the amazon web site, this guy just may have found 
found (I do say may!) how this universe of ours works and it's not getting 
that much negative response from the main stream physics people.
Butch

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 15:14:58 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <841c7be6.2514171f@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:13:51 EDT
Subject: Formula for overunity
To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, edk@rayflex.com
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Ed,
If the balance system is contoured to match the temporary change of flux 
during it's approach to the work unit, overunity just might be possible.
Butch

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 16:43:49 1999
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From: tgrimes1@juno.com
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:37:17 -0400
Subject: Plant energy overunity
Message-ID: <19990917.193724.-381111.0.tgrimes1@juno.com>
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Alexander Frolov writes:

>Lathinov discovered the fact for electrolytical cell self-cooling when
its gas
>output is high pressure gas. Why? The Law for Energy Conservation is
working! It
>is necessary to take heat energy from water molecules to produce
over-unity
>power.

  I thank you for the information that the gases can be compressed using
the electrolysis.  However, I do not think that my device is over-unity. 
This is reason why: the solar cell converts some of the light incedent
upon it into electricity.  The electricity is used to break apart water
molecules (some electric power is lost here and through the resistance in
the wires).  When these gases are recombined, the energy liberated is the
same as the energy required to split the water molecules in the first
place.  This last step I believe to be 100% efficient.

  Right now I am trying to work out a few design flaws.  First, how does
one recombine and combust the gases in the correct proportions?  The
answer I came up with is to have the O2 and H2 stored in the same
reservoir.  The problem with this is that the mixture will be highly
explosive, and will need to be protected from any source of ignition
(except the controlled combustion chamber).  Also, how do you burn the
fuel in a controlled manner, that is, without the flame traveling down
the fuel line and igniting the stored fuel?  My solution to this point is
out of the range of my experience.  I think a series of heat conducting
wire meshes in the fuel line will act the same way as the mesh on a Davy
lamp.  They will conduct heat away from any flame that happens to reach
them, thus cutting off the source of ignition from the reservoir.  Even
when these problems are solved, what materials do you use to build the
combustion chamber with?  It must be transparent to let light through,
but it should not shatter or melt.  Keep in mind that an H2/O2 torch is
used to melt the Al2O3 (ruby or emerald without the impurities that color
it) in the manufacture of artificial rubies and emeralds.
___________________________________________________________________
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Has anyone ever tried this or... can some one please try it??? and let me 
know what you find???
this seems too simple???


>So??? If I take a glass bottle with water and suspend and electrode in the
>middle ... rap the out side with ??? foil? (insulated electrode) and
>energise both ... I will get gas production???
>
>Timothy...
>

>Look any textbook for it. Russian textbook is the best way.

>I know Dr. Goryachev from Moscow, his method was tested in USA also. >He 
>used 1
?or 2 V voltage for water decomposition. But it is pulses voltage! 
 >Over-unity is
>reported 700% and 1500% was planned.

>regards,

>Alexander
-------



> >Yes. Electrolysis is the way for high pressure gas production. Electric
> >power is
> >the same. Really, gas can be produced without electric current but only 
>by
> >means
> >of potential field. There are simple experiments: put one electrode in
> >water and
> >other electrode should be insulated from water. There is gas production
> >also.
> >


______________________________________________________
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 18:00:38 1999
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From: John Berry 
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It looks as though you have an insulator on the stators in some images,
Is this so? If not have you thought of trying it? It would help to
decrease the claim that it is just a corona motor.


John Berry

JNaudin509@aol.com wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Due to some failures in the main web site about the PFT Project,
>
> The Miror site about the PFT Project is at :
> http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/advprop.htm
>
> Please pass the message...
>
> Regards,
>
> Jean-Louis

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 18:12:58 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: nuked usa
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:12:05 +1000
Organization: Improving
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On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:18:19 -0700, Fred Epps wrote:
[snip]
>Hey Rick I can, I think there have been hundreds of cycles of advanced
>civilization on this planet. It's basic purpose as a school for souls
>requires many "classes."
>
>Hopefully the bell is not about to ring :-)
>
>Fred
Personally, I like Sitchin's explanation.
It also agrees with recent findings re. the lack of diversity in human
DNA.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 18:23:18 1999
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From: Keasy@aol.com
Message-ID: <4b289c1f.25144351@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:22:25 EDT
Subject: Re: Meetings for free electricity machine???
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In a message dated 9/17/99 2:12:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Keasy@aol.com 
writes:

>    Today there is a full page ad in USA Today by "United Community 
Services" 
>  describing a free energy machine (among other things).  They are holding 
>  meetings around the country --about 45 between now and Nov. 8-- to 
>  demonstrate  a "counter rotation" technology discovered by Better World 
>  Technology, Inc.  Included are "electric motors that are way over 200% 
>  efficient".  A picture of a motor (?) is in the ad. 
>      Does anyone know what this might be about??

Turns out it is a Dennis Lee promotion.  A web site (which I missed before) 
www.ucsofa.com is mentioned.
                                                           Ken

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 19:53:28 1999
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Hay Robin,
I have not read Sitchin's explanation could you give me a link??
thanks,
Timothy...

> >Hey Rick I can, I think there have been hundreds of cycles of advanced
> >civilization on this planet. It's basic purpose as a school for souls
> >requires many "classes."
> >
> >Hopefully the bell is not about to ring :-)
> >
> >Fred
>Personally, I like Sitchin's explanation.
>It also agrees with recent findings re. the lack of diversity in human
>DNA.
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Robin van Spaandonk 
>

______________________________________________________
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 20:16:37 1999
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: PFT Motor mk2 - Update...
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:15:50 +1000
Organization: Improving
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On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:18:10 -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote:
[snip]
>effect. Still, I'd like to see a stationary plastic film barrier tried
>between the rotor and stators. If such a barrier has zero effect, then I

So would I.
[snip]
>potential induction motor effect and current drain. But then again in the
>case of eddy currents - why would it work *better* with extra layers of
>poly? 

I suspect it works better with extra layers of poly, because poly has a
higher dielectric constant than air, so it increases the capacitance.

>This sure is interesting. Way to go, Jean-Louis.
[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 20:17:52 1999
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From: "Red-Leader" 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:18:37 +0000
Subject: Re: another way of electrolysis???
Priority: normal
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Timothy wrote:

> Has anyone ever tried this or... can some one please try it??? and let me 
> know what you find???
> this seems too simple???
> 
> >So??? If I take a glass bottle with water and suspend and electrode in the
> >middle ... rap the out side with ??? foil? (insulated electrode) and
> >energise both ... I will get gas production???

I did some preliminary testing of this and I didn't get it to work. 
>From my testing it looks like the amount of current through the water 
determines the amount of gas produced. I was using a 12 v power 
supply and using copper wires as electrodes. This is certanly not the 
best setup I know but it's what I have at the moment to work with. 
Carbon rods would make much better electrodes. I used a rehostat to 
adjust the current through the water. The more current, the faster 
the bubbles came off the electrodes. Didn't get any bubbles at all 
without both wires in the water. I even tried this with a 40KV power 
supply, still no gas produced.The 40KV supply didn't produce 
anything, even with both wires in the water, so it apears to me that 
current, not voltage determines gas production. I'd be interested to 
hear from anybody else that has done anything with this.

Emmett



    =====================
       Emmett Hawkins
        "Red-Leader"
    Red-Leader@Dabney.com
    =====================
                

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 20:21:26 1999
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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:20:31 +1000
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On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:26:21 -0700, Brian Snyder wrote:
[snip]
>patrick tremblay wrote:

>>
>> What I would prefer is that it would be in the form of an executable file, so that
>> no one can modify it considerably and that all the information is intact, genuine
>> and that the space I am reserving to myself will be intact too.
[snip]
Patrick, 

If you make it an executable file, no one will look at it, because it
might be a virus.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 20:31:50 1999
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From: "Red-Leader" 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:32:26 +0000
Subject: Re: Plant energy overunity
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Tom Grimes wrote:

>   Right now I am trying to work out a few design flaws.  First, how does
> one recombine and combust the gases in the correct proportions?  The
> answer I came up with is to have the O2 and H2 stored in the same
> reservoir.  

This makes the most sense to me also, if that 1:2 O2 H2 mix will burn 
well. 

> The problem with this is that the mixture will be highly
> explosive, and will need to be protected from any source of ignition
> (except the controlled combustion chamber).  Also, how do you burn the
> fuel in a controlled manner, that is, without the flame traveling down
> the fuel line and igniting the stored fuel?  

If the gas is compressed this is not a problem, it will work like a 
bunsen burner, propane torch etc. The gas pressure itself will keep 
the flame from going down the line. (Comments, correction welcome)


> My solution to this point is
> out of the range of my experience.  I think a series of heat conducting
> wire meshes in the fuel line will act the same way as the mesh on a Davy
> lamp.  They will conduct heat away from any flame that happens to reach
> them, thus cutting off the source of ignition from the reservoir.  Even
> when these problems are solved, what materials do you use to build the
> combustion chamber with?  It must be transparent to let light through,
> but it should not shatter or melt.  

Here you've lost me I'm afraid. Why does it have to be transparent? 
Are you thinking of using the light of the flame to drive solar cells 
and put energy back into the cycle? This I don't think would work 
well since a hydrogen flame is almost colorless and produces very 
little light. But maybe I'm way off in trying to guess what you're 
thinking.


Emmett


    =====================
       Emmett Hawkins
        "Red-Leader"
    Red-Leader@Dabney.com
    =====================
                

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 20:33:32 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Has anybody else studied the commutator spark effects ?
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:32:38 +1000
Organization: Improving
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On Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:36:15 +0200, Stefan Hartmann wrote:
[snip]
>Right ! The back current spike is bigger and longer through the
>chemical oxidation effect converting chemical energy to electrical
>energy
>and then flowing back to the battery !
[snip]
Hi Stefan,

Have you actually sat down and worked out the amount of chemical energy
available from the amount of electrode lost during sparking?
(BTW this means that poorly oxidising electrodes should never produce
large back currents, if you are correct).


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 20:41:38 1999
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From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: nuked usa
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 03:40:59 GMT
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On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:28:11 PDT, "Timothy Flytcher" 
wrote:

>Hay Robin,
>I have not read Sitchin's explanation could you give me a link??
>thanks,
>Timothy...

>>Personally, I like Sitchin's explanation.
>>It also agrees with recent findings re. the lack of diversity in human
>>DNA.

>>Robin van Spaandonk 

Likewise please, Robin ... Also any links/references 
and conclusions based thereon, to the DNA diversity findings 
you mentioned.

Cheers
Alan

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From: Robin van Spaandonk 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Plant energy overunity
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:57:41 +1000
Organization: Improving
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On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:32:26 +0000, Red-Leader wrote:
[snip]
>> The problem with this is that the mixture will be highly
>> explosive, and will need to be protected from any source of ignition
>> (except the controlled combustion chamber).  Also, how do you burn the
>> fuel in a controlled manner, that is, without the flame traveling down
>> the fuel line and igniting the stored fuel?  
[snip]
NO! This is a recipe for disaster! It would ONLY be true if the gas flow
rate were higher than the flame front propagation rate. It isn't. The
flame would propagate hundreds to thousands of times faster than the gas
flow rate! You MUST include some form of flame arrestor in the gas
supply. One method is to bubble the gas through a water trap between the
supply and the flame.



Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 21:01:42 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Plant energy overunity
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:00:35 +1000
Organization: Improving
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On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:32:26 +0000, Red-Leader wrote:
Oops! snipped the wrong part on previous email. It should have been as
follows:

[snip]
>If the gas is compressed this is not a problem, it will work like a 
>bunsen burner, propane torch etc. The gas pressure itself will keep 
>the flame from going down the line. (Comments, correction welcome)
[snip]
NO! This is a recipe for disaster! It would ONLY be true if the gas flow
rate were higher than the flame front propagation rate. It isn't. The
flame would propagate hundreds to thousands of times faster than the gas
flow rate! You MUST include some form of flame arrestor in the gas
supply. One method is to bubble the gas through a water trap between the
supply and the flame.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 21:19:18 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: nuked usa
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:18:25 +1000
Organization: Improving
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On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 03:40:59 GMT, Alan Schneider wrote:
[snip]
>On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:28:11 PDT, "Timothy Flytcher" 
>wrote:
>
>>Hay Robin,
>>I have not read Sitchin's explanation could you give me a link??
>>thanks,
>>Timothy...
>
>>>Personally, I like Sitchin's explanation.
>>>It also agrees with recent findings re. the lack of diversity in human
>>>DNA.
>
>>>Robin van Spaandonk 
>
>Likewise please, Robin ... Also any links/references 
>and conclusions based thereon, to the DNA diversity findings 
>you mentioned.
[snip]
Hmm.. I seem to have opened a can of worms here, so I'll quickly pour
cold water on it ;). First I know of no recent publication by Sitchin,
web based or otherwise. I was simply referring to his notion that
"aliens" were here first, and as an aside created man through genetic
engineering. Also to his (and Alan Alford's) suggestions that they used
nuclear weapons. 
As to the DNA, you can find this in New Scientist Vol 163 #2199, of 14
August 1999 - "Apocalypse then" page 32.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 22:51:37 1999
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From: "Timothy Flytcher" 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: nuked usa
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:50:35 PDT
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Thank you Robin for the explanation :)
Timothy...
>Hmm.. I seem to have opened a can of worms here, so I'll quickly pour
>cold water on it ;). First I know of no recent publication by Sitchin,
>web based or otherwise. I was simply referring to his notion that
>"aliens" were here first, and as an aside created man through genetic
>engineering. Also to his (and Alan Alford's) suggestions that they used
>nuclear weapons.
>As to the DNA, you can find this in New Scientist Vol 163 #2199, of 14
>August 1999 - "Apocalypse then" page 32.
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Robin van Spaandonk 
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 23:04:33 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: DISCLOSURE: How the Newman motors might really work
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 16:03:41 +1000
Organization: Improving
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On Fri, 17 Sep 99  21:56:51 +0100, Stefan Hartmann wrote:
[snip]
>>So what you are saying is that the excess electricity is really
>>the two free electrons liberated during the conversion of 
>>C + 02 -> C02:
>>
>>
>>    e
>>    |
>>  e-C-e  + O=O + spark ->    O=C=O + e + e
>>    |
>>    e

No, this is a nonsense reaction. There are no "spare" electrons in the
combustion of carbon in oxygen. What however may be possible is the
energy liberated results in various atoms being ionised. IOW there would
be "pairs" comprising an electron and its associated positive ion. If
these end up on opposite "electrodes", then they could boost the
current. Sort of a plasma based chemical cell.
[snip]
>>OU will show that the motor is not needed, though it won't prove
>>that the effect is electrochemical. The easiest way to 'prove' it,
>>(or at least to see if you're on the right track) would be to perform
>>this in a closed, oxygen enriched enviorment. The reaction would stop
>>once all the 02 was converted to CO2. 

You could also just weigh the carbon electrodes accurately before and
after. Any CO2 formed will just diffuse into the atmosphere, so you can
calculate the energy release based upon the carbon combustion.
[snip]
>If this turns out NOT to be at all chemical, then it is most probably that
>at the commutator spark gap is taking place an effect like the Correa
>or Chernetski self generating plasma discharge !

This would be very interesting.
[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 17 23:16:01 1999
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Message-ID: <37E32AC7.678DD3C2@mail.admiral.ru>
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:01:43 +0400
From: "Alexander V. Frolov" 
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Organization: Home Lab
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Red-Leader wrote:

> >From my testing it looks like the amount of current through the water
> determines the amount of gas produced. I was using a 12 v power
>

Yes, but why? You are working with DC and it is wrong idea. After first molecules
of water are decomposed in gas, the gas layer is working in area of electrode as
insulator. It is necessary to remove the gas from surface of electrode.

I reported about this point in 1999 International Congress on Hydrogen
Energetics, St.-Petersburg. Report is published
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru/water.htm

Water in pure state (distillant) is very good dielectric (in 81 times more
dielectric than air, e=81) No needs in current for electrolysis, as Dr. Latchinov
proved in 1888

Alexander V. Frolov

--
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
ICQ 43757451




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tgrimes1@juno.com wrote:

> Alexander Frolov writes:
>
> >Lathinov discovered the fact for electrolytical cell self-cooling when gas
> output is high pressure gas. Why? The Law for Energy Conservation is
> working! It is necessary to take heat energy from water molecules to
> produce over-unity power.
>

> place.  This last step I believe to be 100% efficient.
>

It is your version. If it is necessary, it can be made as 400% or more. Look
Prof. Kanarev's report or look it on CD http://www.time-machine.spb.ru/cd.htm

> (except the controlled combustion chamber).  Also, how do you burn the
> fuel in a controlled manner, that is, without the flame traveling down

Look version of system by Kanarev on
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru/kanarev.htm or video on CD about his lab.

Alexander V. Frolov
--
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
ICQ 43757451



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>On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:26:21 -0700, Brian Snyder wrote:
>[snip]
>>patrick tremblay wrote:
>
>>>
>>> What I would prefer is that it would be in the form of an executable
file, so that
>>> no one can modify it considerably and that all the information is
intact, genuine
>>> and that the space I am reserving to myself will be intact too.
>[snip]
>Patrick,
>
>If you make it an executable file, no one will look at it, because it
>might be a virus.
>[snip]
>Regards,
>
>Robin van Spaandonk 


do doubt about it Robin, it's a virus.
i imagine it would survive the collapse of the inet.
whether or not it had any merit would not prevent its spread
throughout the realms of OU and FE literature.


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From: "Marcelo Puhl" 
Organization: Computec Ltda
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:14:12 -3
Subject: Re: nuked usa
Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br
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Date forwarded: 	Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:18:58 -0700
From:           	Robin van Spaandonk 
To:             	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject:        	Re: nuked usa
Date sent:      	Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:18:25 +1000
Organization:   	Improving
Forwarded by:   	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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> On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 03:40:59 GMT, Alan Schneider wrote:
> [snip]
> >On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:28:11 PDT, "Timothy Flytcher" 
> >wrote:
> >
> >>Hay Robin,
> >>I have not read Sitchin's explanation could you give me a link??
> >>thanks,
> >>Timothy...
> >
> >>>Personally, I like Sitchin's explanation.
> >>>It also agrees with recent findings re. the lack of diversity in human
> >>>DNA.
> >
> >>>Robin van Spaandonk 
> >
> >Likewise please, Robin ... Also any links/references 
> >and conclusions based thereon, to the DNA diversity findings 
> >you mentioned.
> [snip]
> Hmm.. I seem to have opened a can of worms here, so I'll quickly pour
> cold water on it ;). First I know of no recent publication by Sitchin,
> web based or otherwise. I was simply referring to his notion that
> "aliens" were here first, and as an aside created man through genetic
> engineering. Also to his (and Alan Alford's) suggestions that they used
> nuclear weapons. 
> As to the DNA, you can find this in New Scientist Vol 163 #2199, of 14
> August 1999 - "Apocalypse then" page 32.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk 
> 

You can search the list archives for the word "Sitchin".
This topic was discussed some time ago.

His book "The 12nd Planet" is fantastic !



Marcelo Puhl
mark@plug-in.com.br
-------------------------------------------
Get paid to surf the WEB !
Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet !
http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608
-------------------------------------------

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 18 08:09:31 1999
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From: "Red-Leader" 
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Subject: Re: Plant energy overunity
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On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:00:35 +1000  Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

> NO! This is a recipe for disaster! It would ONLY be true if the gas flow
> rate were higher than the flame front propagation rate. It isn't. The
> flame would propagate hundreds to thousands of times faster than the gas
> flow rate! You MUST include some form of flame arrestor in the gas
> supply. One method is to bubble the gas through a water trap between the
> supply and the flame.

Okay, I think I understand what you're saying. My idea was to let the 
gas come up to a fairly high pressure before burning it, but I guess 
electrolysis still produces gas too slowly for this to work. The 
bubble regulator you mentioned would work. Obviously I haven't had 
too much experience working with this type of thing.

Emmett




    =====================
       Emmett Hawkins
        "Red-Leader"
    Red-Leader@Dabney.com
    =====================
                

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 18 08:37:24 1999
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From: "Red-Leader" 
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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:38:15 +0000
Subject: Re: another way of electrolysis???
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> Red-Leader wrote:
> 
> > >From my testing it looks like the amount of current through the water
> > determines the amount of gas produced. I was using a 12 v power

> Yes, but why? You are working with DC and it is wrong idea. After first molecules
> of water are decomposed in gas, the gas layer is working in area of electrode as
> insulator. It is necessary to remove the gas from surface of electrode.

I used a 12v supply first of all because that's what I had to work 
with and secondly I thought DC was what you had to use. DC produces 
H2 from one electrode and O2 from the other. I assume you're 
suggesting using AC? I'll try itand see what I get and look at the 
websites you mentioned.

I forgot to mention that in my testing last night I added some salt 
to the water to try and make it more conductive. I did get more 
bubbles this way, I assume because of increased current but there may 
be another reason. I took physics instead of chemestry last year so I 
don't know a tremendous amount about this yet.

Emmett


    =====================
       Emmett Hawkins
        "Red-Leader"
    Red-Leader@Dabney.com
    =====================
                

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 18 09:55:03 1999
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From: tgrimes1@juno.com
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:35:45 -0400
Subject: Re: another way of electrolysis???
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Regarding "Red Leader"'s experiment.  This bears out my own experience in
electrolysis.  I think that rather than use carbon rods for electrodes,
platinum wire would work much better.  Last time I checked, platinum wire
only cost ~$3 to ~$5 a foot.  The added bonuses with platinum wire are
that the electrodes will not corrode and there is a greater surface area.
 Gas production seems to be proportional to both surface area and
current.  In my electrolysis experiments I have noticed that bubbles form
on the electrodes and reach a critical volume before they are released. 
This is readily explainable.  The problem is that before a bubble is
released it blocks a certain surface area on the electrode from
conducting electricity to the water.  This effectively reduces the
average total surface area of the electrode.  Thus, adding a surfactant
to the water (providing it does not electrolize into "polluting"
components) may increase gas output and therefore the efficiency of the
system as a whole.
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 18 09:55:04 1999
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Subject: Re: Plant energy overunity
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[fragment of message]

Here you've lost me I'm afraid. Why does it have to be transparent? 
Are you thinking of using the light of the flame to drive solar cells 
and put energy back into the cycle? This I don't think would work 
well since a hydrogen flame is almost colorless and produces very 
little light. But maybe I'm way off in trying to guess what you're 
thinking.

[end of fragment]

  I didn't know that hydrogen flame produced only a little light.  In
fact, I thought that light would be the primary output.  That is why I
said the combustion chamber should be transparent.

	The idea of using solar cells to collect light energy from the flame is
an intruiging idea.  Although the light output is small, maybe
thermocouples can be used to put a little energy back into the system. 
The output sources of heat will be the flame itself and the steam
produced by the reaction.  The combustion chamber will absorb radiated
heat and a condenser can be used to cool the steam to be put back into
the water reservoir and the heat from the condenser and the combustion
chamber can be radiated out to heat a room.
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 18 09:55:03 1999
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From: tgrimes1@juno.com
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:50:19 -0400
Subject: Re: another way of electrolysis???
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On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:38:15 +0000 "Red-Leader" 
writes:
>> Red-Leader wrote:
>> 
>I forgot to mention that in my testing last night I added some salt 
>to the water to try and make it more conductive. I did get more 
>bubbles this way, I assume because of increased current but there may 
>
>be another reason. I took physics instead of chemestry last year so I 
>
>don't know a tremendous amount about this yet.
>
>Emmett

  When using salt as an electrolyte, it does increase the current through
the water and thus the gas production.  However, I have found that it is
impossible to generate any O2 using this electrolyte.  The reason for
this is because it releases Cl2 instead (and the remain Na reacts with
water to produce NaOH, sodium hydroxide).  Dilute acid solutions work
much better.
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 18 09:55:03 1999
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From: tgrimes1@juno.com
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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:44:43 -0400
Subject: Recipe for disaster
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>One method is to bubble the gas through a water trap between the
>supply and the flame.

  Brilliant idea!  Very practical!  I would like to note, however, that I
suggested a wire mesh system that should work similar to a Davy lamp.
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 18 10:21:20 1999
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From: "Red-Leader" 
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Subject: Re: another way of electrolysis???
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On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:50:19 -0400 Tom Grimes wrote:
 
>   When using salt as an electrolyte, it does increase the current through
> the water and thus the gas production.  However, I have found that it is
> impossible to generate any O2 using this electrolyte.  The reason for
> this is because it releases Cl2 instead (and the remain Na reacts with
> water to produce NaOH, sodium hydroxide).  Dilute acid solutions work
> much better.

Yes, I seemed to be getting bubbles only off the negative electrode, 
which would be the H2 producing one. I'll look into other 
electrolytes and see if I can find something better. Which solution 
have you found works the best? I'll look into using platnum wires for 
electrodes like you suggested also. I ordered a 0.5 volt, 2 amp solar 
cell to experiment with. We'll see how well it works when I get it.

Emmett


    =====================
       Emmett Hawkins
        "Red-Leader"
    Red-Leader@Dabney.com
    =====================
                

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 18 10:33:15 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Message-ID: <3e986ded.251526a4@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:32:20 EDT
Subject: The David Hamel's pictures album
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Dear All,

If you are interested to see some nice pictures about the Hamel's Flying 
Saucer (The HFS) under construction currently being done by his teamwork, see 
at :

http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/dhpicts.htm

Best Regards
Jean-Louis Naudin
Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 18 10:39:58 1999
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From: "Red-Leader" 
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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:40:57 +0000
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Tom wrote:

>   I didn't know that hydrogen flame produced only a little light.  In
> fact, I thought that light would be the primary output.  That is why I
> said the combustion chamber should be transparent.

Feel free to check me on this but I'm pretty sure this is the case. A 
hydrogen flame is almost invisible (very very pale blue). Heat will 
be your main output.

> 	The idea of using solar cells to collect light energy from the flame is
> an intruiging idea.  Although the light output is small, maybe
> thermocouples can be used to put a little energy back into the system. 

This is a good idea. I remember reading about thermocouples using 
semi-conductors that are fairly efficient. Small arrays of these are 
avalible for $10 - $20. They're designed to run on 12V or so and work 
as cooling devices. But you should be able to run these backwards
(Apply heat and get voltage) without any problems.

> The output sources of heat will be the flame itself and the steam
> produced by the reaction.  The combustion chamber will absorb radiated
> heat and a condenser can be used to cool the steam to be put back into
> the water reservoir and the heat from the condenser and the combustion
> chamber can be radiated out to heat a room.

And all run from a free source of fuel, WATER! When do you start 
production? :-) There's still alot of work and testing to be done of 
course but I think this is an excelent idea and is well worth looking 
into.

Emmett


    =====================
       Emmett Hawkins
        "Red-Leader"
    Red-Leader@Dabney.com
    =====================
                

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 18 12:04:28 1999
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To: "VORTEX L" , "freenrg-l" ,
        "Newman-L Mailing List" 
Subject: How the Newman motors might really work
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Greg East Wrote:

>I'm convinced that 'fusion' occurs at every energy level...not only at the
'conditions' present within a star, but >perhaps even at temperatures
nearing absolute-zero.  The conditions just need to be right.
>This concept relates to Joe's work also.  Joe has spelled out a number of
conditions, and shown a number of >configurations of not only motors but
systems, both microscopic and macroscopic, which can be explained by
>a simple mechanical model involving something he refers to as 'gyroscopic
particles'.  This model is just >that...a model, and a good model.  It is a
useful tool in understanding the 'INTERACTIONS' within many, many >systems.

All very true.   The recent work with the Bose-Einstein Condensate
(BEC) -based Atom Laser, which uses the wave function of matter to produce
an infinate quantum beam, and its corrolary, the newly discovered Quantum
Gas   http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/09/990910080853.htm  prove
that all of what we perceive to be solid matter is in fact comprised of
dynamically interacting energy formations.

To my knowledge, Joe has never attempted to qualify the Gyrotron/"gyroscopic
particle" as a solid object, merely as the "mechanical essense" of one;
consequently, his use of the term "particle" is not that which the physics
priesthood holds to be the case.   As an energy vortex, not unlike a
miniature hurricaine, such Gyrotrons may yet be discovered to be the primal
underlying building block of nature.   Such a vortex could exhibit all of
the properties Mr. Newman attributes as "gyroscopic particles"; at such a
scale, this distinction between matter and energy breaks down to one of
subjectively derived human semantics, nature itself has no confusion over
the issue.   In nature, they are one in the same.

If you take a step back from the altar,  thus far, the high energy particle
physicists have succeeded only in making "debris" as they smash subatomic
particles together; an endless stream of [what will probably eventually
prove to be] random fragments of pseudomatter.    If you smash a glass jar
on concrete, you get the same kind of random fragments of debris.   You can
sort out all the little pieces of glass into subjective categories, based on
size, weight, approximate shape (within your powers of observation),
sharpness, direction of travel, distance travelled, geometric distribution,
angularity, etc., but they are still just random fragments of debris, of no
particular meaning.  Thus with matter.  It is not unlike what those
satellite weather photos show as a hurricaine dissipates into clouds without
purpose.   Like these weather patterns, the ash left from these atom
smashers is very short lived.   Are these collisions in high energy
cyclotrons and linear accelerators merely disrupting the vorticies of the
gyrotrons?

All of this being the case, I do *NOT* believe that chemical effects at the
spark gap play any role in the OU performance of the devices.    The spark
itself might, as the plasma sheath resonates to frequencies sympathetic with
those of the quantum vibration of the universe, and is harmonically
amplified.   But, Stephan, you know that (A) Chemical processes are not that
rapid,  (B) The energy liberated from any of the chemical reaction systems
available at the commutator as electrodes is insufficient by several orders
of magnitude, (C) There is no chemical reaction byproduct,  (D) There is no
corrosion/diminution of the commutator/electrode surface sufficient to
account for the energy release, and (E) No corrosion/diminution of the
surface which is any greater than nominal mechanical and electrical wear
would account for, that has ever been noted by builders of Newmanesque
devices.

There is definately a missing dynamic at work here, the pursuit of which
must be endlessly frustrating to Mr. Newman, but chemical effects, either at
the brass commutator contacts, or within the copper or ferrite core can
simply *NOT* account for any of the observed phenomena.   Stephan, if you
are still convinced of this, take one of your working Newman machines to
Berlin Polytechnic and run it in a vacuum chamber, sampling the gases
evolved from the arc discharges.    Or, if necessary to facilitate the
formation of the arc plasma sheath, flood the chamber with nitrogen or
helium, to provide an atmosphere with better breakdown potential.    These
experiments, if done, can conclusively determine the chemistry of back EMF
plasma discharge, from the system in question.

David L. Wenbert
The Great Power & Light Company
A Gaian Renaissance Organisation

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 18 12:03:15 1999
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From: Keasy@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:01:55 EDT
Subject: Re: Meetings for free electricity machine???
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In a message dated 9/18/99 6:47:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jdo@ucalgary.ca 
writes:

> 
>  Ken: Did it say when products will be available commercially? Is
>  anyone going to any of this meetings? Jorg Ostrowski

Jorg,
    The "free electricity machine"  to be installed in your home that will 
give you "15 kilowatts per hour" seems to be the main thing they are 
promoting.   But there are others: water to power your car,  a 1 hp motor 
running on a 9v battery, etc.  And no, they do not say WHEN these things will 
be available.  I think one of the purposes of these meetings is to sell 
distributorships.
                                                                        Ken

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 18 12:10:29 1999
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From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER)
Subject: Re: [ Amin Cycle errors]?
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Hello !

In the meantime I found a simple argument which shoots dead all theoretical
argumentation of Amin regarding his cycle.

In his paper Amin presents the cycle being isothermal (T = constant) and
with no irreversibilities. This means: entropy S is a defined function of
state during the whole cycle. If this function S is drawn in a T-S plot, it
would be a simple line parallel to the axis back and forth. One would not
get any working area which would represent the energy taken up or given off
by the cycle. Therefore, no heat in sum is consumed during the cycle.
Useless to discuss whether this can be exchanged into work.
The version discussed by Amin exchanges only rotational energy into pressure
energy.

Therefore, if it works at all the Amin cycle has to work at at least to
different temperatures similar like a Carnot cycle, or irreversibilities
have to be implemented !
Sincerly

Dieter Bauer

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 18 13:18:38 1999
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From: "Trev" 
To: 
References: <19990918.125023.-423349.3.tgrimes1@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Plant energy overunity
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 21:02:05 +0100
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Just a thought but if you wish to generate light from the burning of the
Hydrogen try burning it thru a gas mantle light,  like they used to use in
caravans,
Trev.

----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 1999 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: Plant energy overunity


> [fragment of message]
>
> Here you've lost me I'm afraid. Why does it have to be transparent?
> Are you thinking of using the light of the flame to drive solar cells
> and put energy back into the cycle? This I don't think would work
> well since a hydrogen flame is almost colorless and produces very
> little light. But maybe I'm way off in trying to guess what you're
> thinking.
>
> [end of fragment]
>
>   I didn't know that hydrogen flame produced only a little light.  In
> fact, I thought that light would be the primary output.  That is why I
> said the combustion chamber should be transparent.
>
> The idea of using solar cells to collect light energy from the flame is
> an intruiging idea.  Although the light output is small, maybe
> thermocouples can be used to put a little energy back into the system.
> The output sources of heat will be the flame itself and the steam
> produced by the reaction.  The combustion chamber will absorb radiated
> heat and a condenser can be used to cool the steam to be put back into
> the water reservoir and the heat from the condenser and the combustion
> chamber can be radiated out to heat a room.
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Get the Internet just the way you want it.
> Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
> Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 18 14:05:03 1999
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From: "Marcelo Puhl" 
Organization: Computec Ltda
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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 18:06:37 -3
Subject: Where do we come from ?
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A interesting site about the work of Zecharia Sitchin.

http://www.mars-earth.com/sitchintext.htm


Marcelo Puhl
mark@plug-in.com.br
-------------------------------------------
Get paid to surf the WEB !
Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet !
http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608
-------------------------------------------

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 18 15:35:48 1999
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From: Allan Alderson 
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Re: about disclosure
On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:20:31 +1000, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
>
>On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:26:21 -0700, Brian Snyder wrote:
    [snip]
>
>If you make it an executable file, no one will look at it, because it
>might be a virus.
>

In the interests of compatability, might I suggest a simple ASCII file.
Sure anybody can change it, but if you post enough copies of the file it
won't really matter.



      -  Allan.
---- ---- ---- ----
Please reply to me with a 'text-only' message at this address:
adsaa@turboweb.net.au

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 18 17:58:25 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Recipe for disaster
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:57:38 +1000
Organization: Improving
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On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:44:43 -0400, tgrimes1@juno.com wrote:

>>One method is to bubble the gas through a water trap between the
>>supply and the flame.
>
>  Brilliant idea!  Very practical!  I would like to note, however, that I
>suggested a wire mesh system that should work similar to a Davy lamp.
[snip]
Yes, this method is also used, but I believe is not always 100%
reliable.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

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From: Robin van Spaandonk 
To: "freenrg-l" 
Subject: Re: How the Newman motors might really work
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:10:57 +1000
Organization: Improving
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On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:57:59 -0400, dwenbert wrote:
[snip]
>All of this being the case, I do *NOT* believe that chemical effects at the
>spark gap play any role in the OU performance of the devices.

I suspect that you are correct in this regard.

>The spark itself might, as the plasma sheath resonates to frequencies sympathetic with
>those of the quantum vibration of the universe, and is harmonically
>amplified.   But, Stephan, you know that (A) Chemical processes are not that
>rapid,  

This is not necessarily true. Some explosions can be extremely rapid,
yet are chemical in origin. Note also that the speed of many chemical
reactions increases exponentially with temperature, and the plasma of a
spark can be very hot.
[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 18 18:40:45 1999
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Where do we come from ?
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:39:56 +1000
Organization: Improving
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On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 18:06:37 -3, Marcelo Puhl wrote:

>
>A interesting site about the work of Zecharia Sitchin.
>
>http://www.mars-earth.com/sitchintext.htm
>
>
>Marcelo Puhl
>mark@plug-in.com.br
A quote from the site:
"The answer given to these enigmas are unsatisfactory, when weighted
against the evidence that another race of people is about to visit our
planet, as they apparently have many times in the past."

Personally I don't think they ever left. Furthermore, I suspect we have
been at war with them since about 1947 (or even earlier if they had a
hand in Nazi Germany, as has been suggested). 
But how does a government go about telling it's people that they are at
war with the race responsible for the origins of that people's religion,
or at least with one faction?


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 19 00:13:20 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" 
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Subject: OFF TOPIC: Re: Where do we come from ?
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Hi Robin and all,

I made this thread off topic since it is outside the purview of the list...
>
>Personally I don't think they ever left.

There is absolutely no question about that. And I won't even argue it with
anyone.

 Furthermore, I suspect we have
>been at war with them since about 1947 (or even earlier if they had a
>hand in Nazi Germany, as has been suggested).

To be more precise some portions of our governments are at war with some
ETs, while cooperating with others. The situation is extremely complex.

>But how does a government go about telling it's people that they are at
>war with the race responsible for the origins of that people's religion,
>or at least with one faction?

Religions, at least western ones, are influenced by all sorts of power
structures from this planet and beyond but the core of religion,
spirituality, is integral to human existence and would survive the shock.
The greatest concern of the governments is war with ETs. They are
ferociously building advanced weapons and underground shelters with public
monies. I'm not saying that I agree with their assessment of things, but
they are threat managers and see this as a threat.

The question of what they should tell us is not even on their map.  In any
case awareness of ET presence here is being controlled by the ETs, not the
governments.

Fred


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Subject: Re: Insight
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Hi Robert,


>Being a major partisipant in testing of many devices explored by ATGROUP
now NES I have seen the on this list the gross malinement of its overall
goals.

Huh? Where did this happen? Maybe I missed some horrific attack on ATG?
The response to the various TMB-type experiments was highly excited and very
positive. The only comment that could be construed as negative -- that is,
if you live in a parallel universe-- was Stefan's quite apt question, if the
BiPEG or ECAT works, then why is the focus on the lower power TMB type
devices? Is this a bad question? I see no implications in this question
other than an honest request for information. If the Bipeg doesn't work,
then so be it, who cares? I have made a zillion things that don't work.
And if it does work but is proprietary, then you just say so. That is your
business.

Before you decide I am "the enemy" ask Ron, you will find I have been
supportive of his work for some time.

>I just returned from their new site and found a very stirring and
insightful Essay by the person behind the work they have been doing for many
years now.

Well, could you give the site again, it has appeared and disappeared a
number of times, like one of those mythical islands that mariners report. My
bookmark doesn't work.
>
>If your the die hard scientist don't waste your time, but if you really
give a damn about humanity, you should find this very interesting indeed.

I will be interested to read this. Nobody could accuse me of being a die
hard scientist.

Fred


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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF02DE.6D55D480
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Dear All,

Harvey Norris has had some difficulties posting to the freenrg-l list.  =
At his request, I am forwarding the following post on his behalf, and I =
commend it to your attention.

S. N. Rae

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------

Hi all in freenrg world, had several problems with bounced mails, can't
submit direct entry so Stuart Rae has helped me out here.

I made a post about a 32,000 hz resonator that would only use 4 =
components,
and no solid state, and how I would announce this on my birthday at =
9/7/99.
That day rolled around and the work was not done. The day before Stefan
Hartman made some comments on Neon entry, and about how no one takes me
seriously because of long posts and no schematics, websites etc. Well he =
is
right then and some of my posts were made in semi dementia at late =
hours,
and that can't happen again.

I thank Stuart for then writing a letter about this promised post and
asking me what was happening. I made some replies concerning the special
generator work that had grabbed my attention because it would produce a
better effect with this 32,000 hz resonator. The problems described in
those letters now appear to have been solved, to my great relief. Those
generators have been tested today and by all common sense I have a high
amperage system of ~300 hz. In accordance with not making a long post =
the
advantage of having this higher frequency system is that a lower =
inductance
system can be made to have a higher impedance or inductive reactance =
than
60 hz can provide, which in turn can provide a higher voltage buildup to
create a high frequency oscillation, in accordance with the binary =
resonant
method of producing high frequencies.

As part of this 32,000 hz gig, I would direct one to an entry placed on
Keelynet by myself on 2/17/99 entitled
Puharich Patent/BRS OFF TOPIC  I don't know if the link can work but I =
see
http://keelynet.com/interact/arc_1_99-4_99/00000508.htm

If that doesn't work, I would advise anyone interested to take the time =
to
find this letter in the keelynet archives, which are very accessible due =
to
the noble efforts of Jerry Decker, who has also given my work exposure.

In that entry I present a synopsis of the Puharich patent 4,394,230 and =
go
a bit further to describe the BRS application to be attempted using 2 =
sets
of 7500 ft of 14 gauge wire. In looking at this document again I see =
errors
on my math.=20

Nevertheless the tetrahedral resonance frequencies of water molecules =
are
described as harmonics of 3980 hz,
making the 3rd harmonic at 31,840 hz. By using 7500 ft of wire in =
opposite
polarities, a close proximity of frequencies made according to the =
method
used by Tesla to produce quarter wave resonators should be able to =
interact
in opposite directions. Accordingly to the statements I made, only 4
components are needed; L,C,arc gap, and electrolysisor.

It doesn't really matter that I made these statements,
what matters is when someone proves the only sound  method of high
frequency water fracturing, something that is talked about, but never
demonstrated. That is the common sense experimental method I am =
employing,
and god and Mary and even Krista willing I will have success.

HDN 9/19/99
tesla4@excite.com


-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------






------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF02DE.6D55D480
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









 


Dear All,


 


Harvey Norris has had some =
difficulties posting=20
to the freenrg-l list.  At his request, I am forwarding the =
following post=20
on his behalf, and I commend it to your attention.


 


S. N. Rae






Hi all in freenrg world, had several =
problems with=20
bounced mails, can't
submit direct entry so Stuart Rae has helped me =
out=20
here.


 


I made a post about a 32,000 hz =
resonator that=20
would only use 4 components,
and no solid state, and how I would =
announce=20
this on my birthday at 9/7/99.
That day rolled around and the work =
was not=20
done. The day before Stefan
Hartman made some comments on Neon entry, =
and=20
about how no one takes me
seriously because of long posts and no =
schematics,=20
websites etc. Well he is
right then and some of my posts were made in =
semi=20
dementia at late hours,
and that can't happen =
again.


 


I thank Stuart for then writing a =
letter about=20
this promised post and
asking me what was happening. I made some =
replies=20
concerning the special
generator work that had grabbed my attention =
because=20
it would produce a
better effect with this 32,000 hz resonator. The =
problems=20
described in
those letters now appear to have been solved, to my =
great=20
relief. Those
generators have been tested today and by all common =
sense I=20
have a high
amperage system of ~300 hz. In accordance with not making =
a long=20
post the
advantage of having this higher frequency system is that a =
lower=20
inductance
system can be made to have a higher impedance or inductive =

reactance than
60 hz can provide, which in turn can provide a higher =
voltage=20
buildup to
create a high frequency oscillation, in accordance with =
the binary=20
resonant
method of producing high frequencies.


 


As part of this 32,000 hz gig, I =
would direct one=20
to an entry placed on
Keelynet by myself on 2/17/99 =
entitled
Puharich=20
Patent/BRS OFF TOPIC  I don't know if the link can work but I =
see
http://k=
eelynet.com/interact/arc_1_99-4_99/00000508.htm


 


If that doesn't work, I would advise =
anyone=20
interested to take the time to
find this letter in the keelynet =
archives,=20
which are very accessible due to
the noble efforts of Jerry Decker, =
who has=20
also given my work exposure.


 


In that entry I present a synopsis of =
the=20
Puharich patent 4,394,230 and go
a bit further to describe the BRS=20
application to be attempted using 2 sets
of 7500 ft of 14 gauge wire. =
In=20
looking at this document again I see errors
on my math. =



 


Nevertheless the tetrahedral =
resonance=20
frequencies of water molecules are
described as harmonics of 3980=20
hz,
making the 3rd harmonic at 31,840 hz. By using 7500 ft of wire in =

opposite
polarities, a close proximity of frequencies made according =
to the=20
method
used by Tesla to produce quarter wave resonators should be =
able to=20
interact
in opposite directions. Accordingly to the statements I =
made, only=20
4
components are needed; L,C,arc gap, and =
electrolysisor.


 


It doesn't really matter that I made =
these=20
statements,
what matters is when someone proves the only sound  =
method=20
of high
frequency water fracturing, something that is talked about, =
but=20
never
demonstrated. That is the common sense experimental method I am =

employing,
and god and Mary and even Krista willing I will have=20
success.


 


HDN 9/19/99
tesla4@excite.com

 








 




 


------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF02DE.6D55D480--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 19 07:15:18 1999
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:14:27 -0700
From: "Robert Decker" 
Message-ID: 
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I owe you an apology. I'm new to this type of communication (lists) and need to get a handle on how to reply and to what so that the correct response is made to the text.

My intent was as you stated, but directed to the remarks about Bipeg, Ecat and the large output TMB circuit.

I think one needs to understand the princple person behind this all, he don't believe in free lunches. He will although give you food, but one must eat it for themselves.

I fully agree with his direction and methods, it saves a lot of trouble.

One must also understand that many of their goals hav been met but can not be realized.

Sorry again for my ineptness in this media.

Bob. 
--

On Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:30:55   Fred Epps wrote:
>Hi Robert,
>
>
>>Being a major partisipant in testing of many devices explored by ATGROUP
>now NES I have seen the on this list the gross malinement of its overall
>goals.
>
>Huh? Where did this happen? Maybe I missed some horrific attack on ATG?
>The response to the various TMB-type experiments was highly excited and very
>positive. The only comment that could be construed as negative -- that is,
>if you live in a parallel universe-- was Stefan's quite apt question, if the
>BiPEG or ECAT works, then why is the focus on the lower power TMB type
>devices? Is this a bad question? I see no implications in this question
>other than an honest request for information. If the Bipeg doesn't work,
>then so be it, who cares? I have made a zillion things that don't work.
>And if it does work but is proprietary, then you just say so. That is your
>business.
>
>Before you decide I am "the enemy" ask Ron, you will find I have been
>supportive of his work for some time.
>
>>I just returned from their new site and found a very stirring and
>insightful Essay by the person behind the work they have been doing for many
>years now.
>
>Well, could you give the site again, it has appeared and disappeared a
>number of times, like one of those mythical islands that mariners report. My
>bookmark doesn't work.
>>
>>If your the die hard scientist don't waste your time, but if you really
>give a damn about humanity, you should find this very interesting indeed.
>
>I will be interested to read this. Nobody could accuse me of being a die
>hard scientist.
>
>Fred
>
>
>


Visit FindLaw at http://www.findlaw.com for free case law, web guide, and legal news, and get your free @JusticeMail.com address at http://www.justicemail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 19 10:12:24 1999
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From: "David Callaghan" 
To: 
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Re: Where do we come from ?
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:09:22 +0100
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Hi Fred, Robin and All

What information has led you both to believe this?  Why and in what way
could we be at war with ET's who have the capability to travel to our
planet?

(These are serious questions by the way)

Best regards

David Callaghan


-----Original Message-----
ROBIN: Personally I don't think they ever left.


FRED: There is absolutely no question about that. And I won't even argue it
with
anyone.



ROBIN: Furthermore, I suspect we have been at war with them since about 1947
(or even earlier if they had a hand in Nazi Germany, as has been suggested).


FRED: To be more precise some portions of our governments are at war with
some
ETs, while cooperating with others. The situation is extremely complex.



FRED: The question of what they should tell us is not even on their map.  In
any
case awareness of ET presence here is being controlled by the ETs, not the
governments.




From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 19 10:41:56 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" 
To: 
Subject: Re: Insight
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:35:32 -0700
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Hi Robert,


>I owe you an apology. I'm new to this type of communication (lists) and
need to get a handle on how to reply and to what so that the correct
response is made to the text.

Really no need to apologize, I was not offended, just perplexed.
>
>My intent was as you stated, but directed to the remarks about Bipeg, Ecat
and the large output TMB circuit.

Yes I got that part right.
>
>I think one needs to understand the princple person behind this all, he
don't believe in free lunches. He will although give you food, but one must
eat it for themselves.

I agree with that. The lists are full of people-- including myself a lot of
times-- who are happier picking things apart than building them.
But Stefan was one of the few who is trying to work with the concept and
replicate it. Which is why I thought the whole thing was strange.

>I fully agree with his direction and methods, it saves a lot of trouble.

Yes, if followed with an understanding of how lists work, sociologically.

There seems to be the assumption on the part of your group that people on
lists are of a mind to immediately latch on to a new idea and try it out en
masse. However that is not how lists operate.  In every case where I have
proposed a radically new idea it was either
1) ignored completely, or totally misunderstood, the first being most
common.
2) picked apart by those who wouldn't dream of trying it out.
3) seriously considered, with cogent suggestions given by a few.
4) acted upon by a few people who contacted me by private mail, and began
working with me.

Lists are basically for talkers, not doers.  Talkers hang out here going
"what if?" forever. Doers hang out here until they connect with other doers,
and start projects which most of the time never get to the list.  Why? For
the same reason you would not take your hard earned money and throw it into
the air at a teenage party :-)
Harsh words, but this is the nature of lists as a democratic medium, there
are all kinds of people here, everybody fom geniuses to psychos. Or genius
psychos :-)

>One must also understand that many of their goals have been met but can not
be realized.

If I can take the liberty of interpreting this: the BiPEG or ECAT gave very
promising results, but there is some bizarre technical factor that prevents
full utilization.  However throwing it open to the public is not an option,
since too much work has gone into it to give it away. So there is a quest
for people who can be trusted who will sign nondisclosure forms and actually
help with the core projects.  How close did I get?
>
>Sorry again for my ineptness in this media.

Again, no need to apologize.

Regards,
Fred


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Because I have signed such documents, of course I can not provide a direct answer. Although I can say that the realization is not technical. I am working with them on two patent apps, but one will never make it do to external intervention.

My education is being expanded daily, as is my understanding of our country.

--

On Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:35:32   Fred Epps wrote:

>>One must also understand that many of their goals have been met but can not
>be realized.
>
>If I can take the liberty of interpreting this: the BiPEG or ECAT gave very
>promising results, but there is some bizarre technical factor that prevents
>full utilization.  However throwing it open to the public is not an option,
>since too much work has gone into it to give it away. So there is a quest
>for people who can be trusted who will sign nondisclosure forms and actually
>help with the core projects.  How close did I get?
>>
>>Sorry again for my ineptness in this media.
>
>Again, no need to apologize.
>
>Regards,
>Fred
>



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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 19 13:59:52 1999
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Hi Robert,


>Because I have signed such documents, of course I can not provide a direct
answer. Although I can say that the realization is not technical. I am
working with them on two patent apps, but one will never make it do to
external intervention.

Ok, I understand.  But a patent is not absolutely necessary for
commercialization. You can simply make the thing and sell it. Or sell pdf
files or kits on the net. Or patent it in some other country and sell it
there.
>
>My education is being expanded daily, as is my understanding of our
country.

Some funny stuff going on here, isn't there?
The "where do we come from" thread provides much of the rationale for this
unusual activity. The ones who do the manipulating are more frightened than
the manipulated, if you can believe that.

Fred


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 19 16:07:11 1999
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On Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:09:22 +0100, David Callaghan wrote:

>Hi Fred, Robin and All
>
>What information has led you both to believe this?  

Personal observation of a UFO in flight. (Also military planes at high
altitude at the same time, apparently engaged in a dog fight, judging by
the shape of the contrails).

>Why and in what way
>could we be at war with ET's who have the capability to travel to our
>planet?

See above.
>
>(These are serious questions by the way)

So is this response.
[snip]
>FRED: To be more precise some portions of our governments are at war with
>some
>ETs, while cooperating with others. The situation is extremely complex.

I could easily accept this. 

>
>
>
>FRED: The question of what they should tell us is not even on their map.  

I think however that it ought to be. 

>In
>any
>case awareness of ET presence here is being controlled by the ETs, not the
>governments.

This assumes total human impotence. Governments are in control of how
much, information they release. 
This should certainly be considered if they are taking the ET "threat"
seriously.

A People forewarned is a People forearmed (to paraphrase). 
That also means presenting a balanced and detailed view.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 19 16:26:23 1999
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Keasy@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 9/18/99 6:47:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jdo@ucalgary.ca
> writes:
>
> >
> >  Ken: Did it say when products will be available commercially? Is
> >  anyone going to any of this meetings? Jorg Ostrowski
>
> Jorg,
>     The "free electricity machine"  to be installed in your home that will
> give you "15 kilowatts per hour" seems to be the main thing they are
> promoting.   But there are others: water to power your car,  a 1 hp motor
> running on a 9v battery, etc.  And no, they do not say WHEN these things will
> be available.  I think one of the purposes of these meetings is to sell
> distributorships.
>                                                                         Ken

 Hold on to your wallet!

 Unfortunately,  this modus operandi is quite common for the scam artists. I
wouldnt
give ANYONE a dime until I could: 1) Examine the device in detail. 2) Test same
using MY test instruments. 3) Verify the operational aspects, preferably by
building
a prototype with my own two hands!

 "Distributorships" are just another word for scam unless the technology can be
verfied and reproduced. Dont believe a word they tell you, and that goes double
for the nominal hype regarding "limited time offers" I know some people who were
left holding the bag so to speak on deals like this before..matter of fact, you
could
most likely buy up all the old Dennis Lee 'distributorships' for very little
money..but
they wouldnt be worth the paper they are printed on, since nothing useful has
ever
come of those things..it was just a sideshow!

This seems to be a good time to make my yearly offer:

 ANYONE having a fully operational OU device, I will pay you a 10% royality on
EVERY UNIT manufacturered. I will eat the cost of all tooling, facilities, etc.
All
you have to bring to the table is a WORKING PROTOTYPE. One that I can give
a thorough shake down, and then I will duplicate it..(AS ABOVE)..once I am sure
it actually does what it claims, I will setup a full-on factory and produce the
device.

 Money up front you ask? Hell no! I'm going to provide the means to put your OU
device in every home and business, I'll pay you 10% of the purchase price for
each
unit...and believe me, that's a great deal! You'll have to trust me, as I'm going
to be
obliged to trust you.

 Other parameters: The device should be capable of generating a sustained 100w
RMS MINIMUM. (this is to scratch the people with the "Drinking Bird" generator
and similar absurd notions!) It should be 1 cu ft OR LESS in volume and weigh no
more than 100 lbs. It should use no conventional fuels, batteries or other
sources
of known energy. It should have no exhaust, no residual radioactivity and be safe

to operate. The output test will be extensive, read up on the sorts of tests that
the
Moray device went thru...that's the start of what I'm going to do to your
'Baby'..

 Interested parties should communicate via emai..no I'm NOT KIDDING!

-Erik



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From: "Charles W. Randall" 
To: 
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Re: Where do we come from ?
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:40:45 -0500
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----------
> From: Robin van Spaandonk 
> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Re: Where do we come from ?
> Date: Sunday, September 19, 1999 6:06 PM
> 
> On Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:09:22 +0100, David Callaghan wrote:
> 
> >Hi Fred, Robin and All
> >
> >What information has led you both to believe this?  
> 
> Personal observation of a UFO in flight. (Also military planes at high
> altitude at the same time, apparently engaged in a dog fight, judging by
> the shape of the contrails).
> 
> >Why and in what way
> >could we be at war with ET's who have the capability to travel to our
> >planet?
> 
> See above.

Note: I'm not saying I believe the above...or disbelieve it. But for the
sake of discussion:

I think what he was asking is, why are we at war with them? Did we start
it, or did they start it? What is the cause? It would seem that if they can
get from there (where ever they come from) to here, they could easily wipe
us out. Or do we have something they need? If they can travel the stars, I
think they'd be able to make anything we have...or strip mine a more
resource rich planet. If it's slave labor needed, then we are obviously not
choice. An earthlike planet to colonize? Why not terraform a lifeless
world? Or move to an uninhabited one?

--Kyle R. Mcallister

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 19 19:04:26 1999
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From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" 
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----------
> From: Charles W. Randall 
> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Re: Where do we come from ?
> Date: Sunday, September 19, 1999 8:40 PM

By the way, the reason the name read "Charles W. Randall" on the previous
email by myself, is that my grandfather was here, using my email program to
contact some paint companies. I'd also like to mention that Charles Randall
Painting is rated the fifth best paint contracting company in the USA. I'm
quite proud of him, as you can probably tell. :)

--Kyle R. Mcallister

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 19 19:05:52 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk 
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Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Re: Where do we come from ?
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:05:02 +1000
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On Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:40:45 -0500, Charles W. Randall wrote:
[snip]
>Note: I'm not saying I believe the above...or disbelieve it. But for the
>sake of discussion:
>
>I think what he was asking is, why are we at war with them? 

Perhaps a series of battles might be better terminology than war.

>Did we start
>it, or did they start it? 

I suspect they have had a hand in the destiny of man since the
beginning, including a hand in most of the wars we have fought with one
another. If I had to guess at the reason, then I would say that mankind
is being "nurtured", though through different groups, each with their
own idea as to how it should best be done.
This leads to conflict between them, some of which spills over into
conflict between/with us.

>What is the cause? It would seem that if they can
>get from there (where ever they come from) to here, they could easily wipe
>us out. Or do we have something they need? If they can travel the stars, I
>think they'd be able to make anything we have...or strip mine a more
>resource rich planet. If it's slave labor needed, then we are obviously not
>choice. An earthlike planet to colonize? Why not terraform a lifeless
>world? Or move to an uninhabited one?

All you say is true, and points to the fact that you have clearly not
included their reasons in your list.

I suspect that the reasons I gave above may be nearer to the truth.
BTW if so, then I think they should give mankind a little more credit.
We usually only react violently out of ignorance and fear. I think that
if enlightened and included, we could be just as mature as they seem to
think they are.

[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 19 19:23:40 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" 
To: "Free Energy" 
Subject: Re: The Altruism Virus - perpetual fire
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:15:31 -0700
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Hi Stuart and all,

>Thank you Charlie. That's exactly what I was getting at. We seem to be
firmly locked in a closed circle of the existing electrical paradigm.

>So why try to find new forms of electrical power generation? What's
wrong with the ones we have now ?

Unfortunately most forms of electrical energy production are
environrnentally hazardous.  Not everyone has the advantage of being in an
area
where hydo power can be used and hydro itself is damaging to river
environments as we have discovered here in the Pacific Northwest. But most
importantly
the use of gasoline in cars is the most important motivation for coming
up with new forms of electrical power production and storage.

    >I have no doubt there are other new, original, novel and exciting ways
to generate electricity, but they will be hard to find unless we take one
more mental step away from the physical electrical energy phenomena, and
look again closely at its origins.

    Agreed.

   > I'll stick my neck out even further by saying that when humanity does
eventually make that step, it will start to understand that electricity,
magnetism, orgone, heat, light, fire, radiation, matter etc., are simply
different forms of the same thing.

    Of course.  Unless you believe in a dualistic universe it would be hard
to
argue otherwise.

   > And it then becomes far simpler to generate any required type of
physical phenomena directly, rather than through the intermediary of a
particular "energy" form.

    All very true in the long run, but we are in desperate need of a
replacement for the internal combustion engine now, not in that glorious
time when we
can simply teleport ourselves to where we want to go.

    >But can anyone seriously tell me that humanity is actually ready for
this knowledge?

    This is a fallacy of misplaced concreteness, Stuart. There is no such
thing as "humanity" as such. "Humanity" includes those who are ready for the
stars, and those who are not ready to get out of the womb. When knowledge is
imparted it finds its own level.  Those who are not ready for it do not
understand it. And if it is the sort of thing these do understand, like how
to make a better bomb, then rest assured they already have it. And if those
who have such
haven't managed to destroy us then they must be better than they look, or we
must be
protected in some way.

   > Who here would like to spread such frightening power through the plague
of world factions who savagely butcher each other daily in the name of
freedom, national defence, regional interest, ethnic cleansing, liberation,
religious freedom, annexation, the need for regional security and stability,
and other insanities.

    >Is there one single country or region on this planet where the
inhabitants do NOT think it is justified to slaughter themselves of others
in particular circumstances? I can't think of one off hand................or
was it once called Tibet?

    Again a misrepresentation of the state of "humanity", based, I suspect,
on too much exposure to
the media :-)
    I would ask you this in response, "Is there one single country or region
on this planet where the MAJORITY of inhabitants do NOT live in peace with
each other and attempt to make their lives better, despite many obstacles?"
    These masses of people are not reported on TV, but they are right
outside your door. Or you would not be there safely writing to us.


 >No, not for me. I think I'd still just keep my lips carefully buttoned
in lonely silence. And as for deliberately spreading some kind of free
energy "Altruism Virus", .......... sadly, I reckon it would be a recipe for
disaster, and serve only to fuel the current plague of human misery and
destruction we see around our globe.

Strange how our views can be so different, Stuart. I am very optimistic
about the current prospects for our planet. Although it appears that volence
is epidemic, I think its role has changed. Only recently it was considered a
"normal" solution to social problems. Now it is usually "abnormal" and steps
are taken on the part of a world community to deal with it, however
ineffectively.
East Timor is a case in point. The last time violence erupted in East Timor
hundreds of thousands were slaughtered and it was barely reported in the
mass media. it was supported and paid for by the US government under the
pretext of stopping communism, as Noam Chomsky has documented so well. Now
when the same type of violence recurs (the aftermath of our previous
intervention, in part)  the nations band together to attempt to stop it.
The same movement toward the marginalization of violence can be seen in all
levels of society, which is why those who are violent now are usually the
marginal or the insane, or the violence has the wild irrational quaility of
insanity.


    >But then on a positive note, I do seriously suspect that a knowledge
and
understanding of the energy source we seek, is apportioned and controlled,
according to our evolutionary progress.............. individually or
collectively.

If we are "guided" from higher levels, which I know we are, Stuart, then it
follows that we can trust that we are being guided properly.
Look at most teenagers. It is hard to imagine that they will ever amount to
anything in the end, but in the end they become us :-) -- if their parents
are patient and nonjudgemental.  Our "parents" are much more than that.
Things are progressing well.

Fred





From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 19 19:27:55 1999
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Subject: WARNING TO EVERYONE REGARDING DENNIS LEE
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 *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *

            THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN
               11445 East Via Linda, No. 416
                 Scottsdale, Arizona 85259
                      (480) 657-3722
                 josephnewman@earthlink.net
                    www.josephnewman.com


           FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE (September 18, 1999)


WARNING TO EVERYONE REGARDING DENNIS LEE:

   It was just brought to my attention that Mr. Dennis Lee
(also operating under the name of  "Better World Technolo-
gies, Inc." or  "United  Community  Services  of America")
ran  a  full-page  advertisement in  USA TODAY  on Friday,
September 17, 1999.   He specifically stated that he would
be  "selling  magnetic  motors  that  are  more  than 200%
efficient."

   All people be warned:   Dennis Lee  came to my national
demonstration at the Louisiana Superdome in New Orleans in
the  mid-1980s  and  he  even  wrote  me a letter offering
$1,000,000.00  for  permission to use my Pioneering Energy
Invention  to  operate  a  device   he  had  already  been
promising to people.

   I turned him down and told him,  "If your device works,
then you don't need  my Magnetic  Motor Pioneering Techno-
logy."   Even at that time I  was  suspicious  that he was
deceiving people.  NOW I KNOW THAT HE IS!

   If he is in  ANY WAY  claiming that "He and his company
have invented a  Revolutionary  Magnetic Motor"  (that can
operate at over  100% efficiency),  then I consider him to
be LYING SCUM!

   And if Dennis Lee  sells  magnetic motors that are over
100% efficient,  then HE & HIS COMPANY WILL BE SUED BY ME!

   He  even  attempts  to  lie  by  claiming to have first
discovered that  magnets will attract copper and aluminum.
That fact has long been taught in science.   If one places
a magnet on a stack of  thin aluminum or copper plates and
quickly lifts the magnet away, the top plates will rise.

   Many  years  ago  I  even  showed this effect by having
neodymium magnets connected to scales, opposite and facing
one another,  but being  only 1/2 inch  apart so that they
were DEFYING  gravity with  the magnets becoming suspended
in air.   I then also placed an aluminum ruler between the
two magnets and the faster I moved the aluminum ruler, the
more  strongly  the  two  magnets  tried  to follow in the
direction of the  moving ruler.   This  simple experiments
demonstrates ATTRACTION!

   It is also true that the aluminum or copper is repelled
when  the  magnet  is moved towards those hanging objects.
Dennis Lee and Cohorts apparently don't know this.  Copper
and aluminum are both attracted and repelled by magnets.

   The above simple demonstration was documented years ago
on video which was purchased & seen by  many people across
the world,  including  most probably  Dennis Lee  since he
specifically purchased my book.

   Dennis Lee and Cohorts  also attempt to claim that they
are demonstrating  something new by  stating that they can
transfer  electricity through the air  to another receiver
of the electricity.

   TRUTH:   Michael Faraday  was the  FIRST  to prove this
more than 150 years ago.  His accomplishments subsequently
caused James Clerk Maxwell to disclose his famous Electro-
magnetic Field Propagation Equations.  In the early 1900s,
Nikola Tesla also proved that such could be accomplished.

   As any hustler would do,  Dennis Lee and Cohorts cover
themselves by stating in the headlines of their USA TODAY
full page advertisement:  "This machine MAY give you free
electricity for the rest of your life."   Further down in
the advertisement,  Dennis Lee and Cohorts state that the
demonstrations to be  held around the country are "free,"
but then, in the same advertisement, they state that they
intend to separate you from $275 before you leave.

   I call that talking  out of  BOTH SIDES OF YOUR MOUTH.
I  have  given  many  TRULY  FREE  demonstrations  of  my
Pioneering  Energy Machine Technology  across the country
and  at  such  demonstrations  I  have  never  asked  for
"contributions or donations"  nor  attempted  to sell and
accept monies at my demonstrations for any product except
for  what  was immediately  deliverable to the public ---
such as my fundamental book, THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH
NEWMAN.

   I have also demonstrated  on numerous occasions uncon-
nected banks of lights being lit while my Motor/Generator
was  operating  and  I  even  had  individuals  from  the
audience hold lights over the battery pack and the lights
would become illuminated without ANY wires being attached
to  them.   I  did  this, for  instance, at the Louisiana
Superdome in New Orleans at a  demonstration specifically
attended  by  Dennis  Lee.  Such  demonstrations  are all
documented  on videotapes  which  have  been  distributed
across the country.

   People: BEWARE.  Any attempt by Dennis Lee and Cohorts
to  claim  my  Revolutionary Energy Machine Technology as
their own will mark them as FRAUDS and THIEVES!

   I am  pushing ahead  with the  honest production of my
life's  work.   Even  the  A & E  Network and the History
Channel  have broadcasted  Specials that verify the truth
of which I speak!

Power to the People!

[Signed]
Joseph W. Newman

(480) 657-3722

P.S. Please pass this email along to others!


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 19 19:35:34 1999
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To: 
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Re: Where do we come from ?
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Hi Kyle,
>
>I think what he was asking is, why are we at war with them? Did we start
>it, or did they start it? What is the cause? It would seem that if they can
>get from there (where ever they come from) to here, they could easily wipe
>us out. Or do we have something they need? If they can travel the stars, I
>think they'd be able to make anything we have...or strip mine a more
>resource rich planet. If it's slave labor needed, then we are obviously not
>choice. An earthlike planet to colonize? Why not terraform a lifeless
>world? Or move to an uninhabited one?

One logical answer to your question is that these combative ETs are not that
advanced.  It is quite possible to imagine a race only twenty years ahead of
us which has an antigravity or wormhole space drive and still is capable of
violence. It is also possible (in fact, easy) to imagine that our military
is twenty years ahead of where they appear to be in the development of
weaponry. This puts on an even playing field with these hypothetical "lower"
ETs.

The more advanced races would stay out of the whole thing while the "lower
beings" did their thing.

Fred

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 19 20:57:48 1999
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Subject: Re: PFT Motor mk2 - Update...
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Hi John,
>
>It seems to me to be a fairly standard electrostatic motor as one can
>find for instance in the book on Electrostatic Motors by Dr Jefimenco.
>The main difference is that instead of having sharp spikes at each
>side of the armature, Jean has put large aluminium coated cylinders.
>As a result it needs tens of kilovolts to transfer a charge onto the
>rotor drum rather than only a few hundred.  The charge transferred to
>the insulating surface of the rotor drum is dragged down the potential
>hill to the opposite side (in both directions) and forms the driving
>force. That is why the faster it rotates the more charge is
>transferred and the more current is drawn.

Yes, I agree. And such a motor with spikes is not a corona motor, as
Jean-louis has said.
ES motors based on Jeffimenko's designs are far more efficient and are
strictly based on induction.

Fred

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Hi Stuart and all,

    >Why is it that ninety percent of all the discussions on "free energy"
and over "unity devices" (here and in other discussion lists), revolve so
much around electromagnetic or electrical devices?  Is it because we think
that electrical phenomena somehow holds the key to our dream of a clean,
"Free energy", "Overunity" source ?


    In one way yes, I do.  However it is not because electric power has any
particular affinity for the source of "free energy" over say, hydraulic
power, but is simply because it is more convenient in terms of our present
civilization.

    Maxwell's equations have their exact analogy in hydrodynamics, with a
magnetic field around a current being a vortex thread in water. Hydrological
analogies add to our understanding of the vortical nature of
electromagnetism.

    All forms of flowing energy, air, water, and electricity are
functionally equivalent and all are equally removed from the source of "free
energy". That source is love. Not love as a form of affection but love as a
FORCE which arises out of every point in our universe in each moment with
fresh energy and life.

    The energies we recognize are the aftereffects of this ultimate energy
source. Within Maxwell or the hydrodynamic equations there is no entry point
for new energy. But the universe is one thing, so there is indeed such an
entry point. Where is it?

    The entry point is in ultimately small particles which are made up of
and controlled by thought, but which form electromagnetic structures when
combined. It is necessary to spin these particles to make stable structures
out of them, and this spin is supplied by the vortex points of my infamous
experiments.

    When these particles are organized by the soul as a thought within the
human brain, they project out to a nearby vortex point where they enter a
"null point" between realities. In a way the particles are slung back into
our reality like a slingshot with more energy and a spin which gives them a
stable electromagnetic structure. This is governed by EM laws, which are
only one form of the master set of equations which govern the movement of
physical energy. The structures then end up making the physical matter and
energy of our reality.

    Taken to a different level even the ultimate particles themselves are
structured by spin. In the end there is nothing in the universe but space
and spin. Space is consciousness without form, and spin is the form it
takes.

    This reality which we inhabit is no more real than a dream, and a dream
is no less real than this reality. Both are electromagnetic structures
composed of spinning particles.  The difference is the rate of spin.
Structures with differing spin rates are invisible to each other and can
coexist in the same space.

    The universe we see is projected directly from our thought and powered
by the energy of love which has its natural analog in the magnetic vortex.
Love is spin, the force that coheres the particles together and brings them
into cooperation. In love, differences are not dissolved but resolved in a
dance of energy which creates a larger reality than the individual, be it
particle or man.

    How does this relate to the practical matter of a "new" energy source?
In two ways. First, the search for this source must partake of the essence
of this source. This means that our solutions will arise out of a loving
identification with the subject of our enquiry, the living universe which we
ourselves create through our thought. In addition, it must be understood
that any creation of new energy in our system begins with the projection of
energy into a local vortex point. It begins with a "tithe" to the source of
all energy.

    It might be that this energy can be physically projected into a vortex
point through increases in the  magnetic vector potential, which is the
basic vortical action of magnetism, and the amplified energy retrieved by
changes in that potential.

    Fred






From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 19 22:17:33 1999
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Dear JOSEPH NEWMAN,

I just read the story of the frisbee today... you should look it up and read 
it... to make a long story short... it is all in marketing!!! he who has the 
best spiel wins.... If your invention works and he can sell it... well just 
look at the wright brother and all the time they spent in court... they one 
... small victory :(

the only thing you can do is out sell him!!! deliver the working goods  
faster and better and you win!!!

Timothy...

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 19 22:31:08 1999
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Hi Fred,
>Hi Stuart and all,
>
>     >Why is it that ninety percent of all the discussions on "free energy"
>and over "unity devices" (here and in other discussion lists), revolve so
>much around electromagnetic or electrical devices?  Is it because we think
>that electrical phenomena somehow holds the key to our dream of a clean,
>"Free energy", "Overunity" source ?
>
To me it seems very simple... you say free energy and I look around and say 
"can it light my light bulb?" If I stop to think about it, it is really 
dumb, but that is what I grew up with... so sometimes thinking beyond that 
first gut reaction is work... and you know how much we all enjoy that :)
Timothy...

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 19 22:45:03 1999
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It should be tried with AC.

Fred Epps wrote:

> Hi John,
> >
> >It seems to me to be a fairly standard electrostatic motor as one can
> >find for instance in the book on Electrostatic Motors by Dr Jefimenco.
> >The main difference is that instead of having sharp spikes at each
> >side of the armature, Jean has put large aluminium coated cylinders.
> >As a result it needs tens of kilovolts to transfer a charge onto the
> >rotor drum rather than only a few hundred.  The charge transferred to
> >the insulating surface of the rotor drum is dragged down the potential
> >hill to the opposite side (in both directions) and forms the driving
> >force. That is why the faster it rotates the more charge is
> >transferred and the more current is drawn.
>
> Yes, I agree. And such a motor with spikes is not a corona motor, as
> Jean-louis has said.
> ES motors based on Jeffimenko's designs are far more efficient and are
> strictly based on induction.
>
> Fred

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 00:07:43 1999
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From: Pellionis Peter 
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Subject: G-field devices
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Hi All,

Do you know somebody who successfully rebuilt a working 

Bedini-type OU device, or a Tesla-switch? 


Peter
from Hungary

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 00:25:17 1999
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good point...

Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 18:06:37 -3, Marcelo Puhl wrote:
>
> >
> >A interesting site about the work of Zecharia Sitchin.
> >
> >http://www.mars-earth.com/sitchintext.htm
> >
> >
> >Marcelo Puhl
> >mark@plug-in.com.br
> A quote from the site:
> "The answer given to these enigmas are unsatisfactory, when weighted
> against the evidence that another race of people is about to visit our
> planet, as they apparently have many times in the past."
>
> Personally I don't think they ever left. Furthermore, I suspect we have
> been at war with them since about 1947 (or even earlier if they had a
> hand in Nazi Germany, as has been suggested).
> But how does a government go about telling it's people that they are at
> war with the race responsible for the origins of that people's religion,
> or at least with one faction?
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk 



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 00:32:42 1999
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Dans un courrier daté du 20/09/99 07:45:58é), antigrav@ihug.co.nz a écrit :

> It should be tried with AC.

With a simple Tesla Coil the PFT Motor doesn't turn.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 00:43:41 1999
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Hi Peter,

Well of course it depends on who you talk to. As far as I know nobody has
ever successfully made a working Tesla switch.  I heard that a guy named Jim
Watson made a large "Bedini"-type motor generator and demonstrated it as
overunity at a 1984 Tesla conference but details are very scanty. All the
info I have seen is on this page:

http://www.padrak.com/ine/db/watsonj.html

If anybody knows more about this I would be interested to hear about it too,
as it supposedly generated 12 KW (with what input I don't know).

Fred


>Hi All,
>
>Do you know somebody who successfully rebuilt a working
>
>Bedini-type OU device, or a Tesla-switch?
>
>
>Peter
>from Hungary
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 01:04:12 1999
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Does that fit in with your theory? Could it have been that the Tesla Coil was
of a too high voltage so that it shorted through the aluminium?

If AC really doesn't work how does that effect the different thories?

JNaudin509@aol.com wrote:

> Dans un courrier daté du 20/09/99 07:45:58é), antigrav@ihug.co.nz a écrit :
>
> > It should be tried with AC.
>
> With a simple Tesla Coil the PFT Motor doesn't turn.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 01:29:57 1999
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

> On Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:25:53 -0700, eks1 wrote:
> Have you checked out the Howard Johnson motor, and if so what is your
> opinion?
>
> See: http://www.newebmasters.com/freeenergy/4151431-pg1.html
>

As a matter of fact I have seen this. I have a copy of the S&M1980 article about
Howard Johnson's motor. My understanding of this is that the device is a rotary
form of the magnetic flux-gate. As to AZ Industries and their magnets, etc. I am
going to check this out - it seems as if I remember that someone either here on
freenrg-L or over on KeelyNet had tried them and found some sort of problem.

I would welcome email from anyone who has tried the magnets etcetra from AZ
or who has actually built a Johnson Motor. In 1980, they were sure that a 15 HP
version of this device would be capable of generating 5kw using just a conventional
vee-belt drive and an alternator...the big question has got to be:

   "So...WHAT HAPPENED?"

..anybody know?

 -Erik

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 02:58:49 1999
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Robin van Spaandonk schrieb:
> 
> On Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:36:15 +0200, Stefan Hartmann wrote:
> [snip]
> >Right ! The back current spike is bigger and longer through the
> >chemical oxidation effect converting chemical energy to electrical
> >energy
> >and then flowing back to the battery !
> [snip]
> Hi Stefan,
> 
> Have you actually sat down and worked out the amount of chemical energy
> available from the amount of electrode lost during sparking?
> (BTW this means that poorly oxidising electrodes should never produce
> large back currents, if you are correct).

Well, it also depends on the L of the coil !

If the L of the coil is big enough and has stored lots of energy,
then the back spike will trigger the oxidation automatically,
when the brush passed off the commutator contact and opens the circuit !

It might be, that this spark then also oxidizes the air molecules
and the ionized air gas is then flying against the commutator and
brush "electrodes" which gives them an additional energy pulse,
which represents the bigger back current spike in Newman motors.

If it is not a chemical reaction then it might be also a plasma
effect of something along the Correa and Chernetski self generating
plasma discharge effects !

Also what suuports my claim is, that the former NBS test on Newman´s
motor only measured
around 70 % efficiency with the suppressed and grounded out back spikes.
So you can see here, that without the commutator spark gap effects
the Newman motor is not overunity.
It all depends on the sparks at the commutator.
The motor function with its mechanical output is just a normal
"byproduct" of the machine.

Looking into the spark gap effects at the commutator will reveal the
real interesting effects and will allow the upscale of power production
also
with smaller units.

Using it as a motor is okay, but I guess with studying the spark gap
effects
it will be possible to build a solid state electrical overunity
generator.

Regards, Stefan.



> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk 

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 03:06:55 1999
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Greg East schrieb:
>
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> An interesting observation:  I took a small carbon motor brush (1/8"
> square X about 3/8" long) and hooked up a coil (with a ferite
> core...looked like a choke I think), one end to one battery terminal,
> the other to the carbon brush.  The other battery terminal went to a
> copper plate.  This plate and the carbon brush constituted the switch.
> I hooked the scope across the whole thing so I could observe the back
> spikes resulting from manually pulsing the coil.
> 
> Here's what's interesting.  If I simply held the brush to the plate for
> about 1/2 second, the wires got hot enough to start melting the
> insulation on my clip leads.  But when I lightly brushed the carbon
> along the plate, for the same time interval, the wires stayed cool but
> the carbon brush glowed bright orange-hot.  It did NOT glow when the
> contact was just held like at first!  The scope picture showed at least
> the same 'volume' of 'spikes' going south as going north.
> 
> There are a number of very interesting things going on here.
> 
> Just thought I'd share,
> 
> Greg

Hi Greg,

interesting experiment !

How big was your coil ?
how many windings ?

Try it with your Newman coil.

Try to brush off FAST the carbon from the copper
plate and draw this way a long spark.
Try to look at the input current on your scope !

It will give you a negative current pulse, if you 
brush off the carbon brush correctly while a white blue
spark with a zapping sound appears !

Let me know.
Thanks !

Regards, Stefan.



--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 03:19:36 1999
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From: Stefan Hartmann 
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Mr. Newman is wrong, when he thinks,
that his motors can overcome the Lenz Law
by using HV and low input current !

They exhibit the same counter EMF, when the rotor
is run as normal low voltage DC motors.

The counter EMF of the coils "kills" the input voltage,
when the rotor is rotating.


The only real effect he seems not to have fully
studied are the spark gap effects at the commutator.

Only there occurs the additional power output
via some kind of:
1. Chemical oxidation energy
or
2. Self generating Plasma Discharge as in a Correa or Chernetski type
experiment.

If this would not be true,
why then had the NBS test shown only 70 % efficiency, when they
suppressed
and grounded out the back spikes ?
They put resistors across the commutator, so there was even no spark
generated at all,
so you can see, that only at the appearance of a spark the machine
might go overunity .
This highly supports my claim that the only mysteriuos effects are going
on at the spark gap of the commutator.

Also with transistor switching a Newman machine is NOT overunity.

I know a few people who have worked on transitorized commutated Newman
motors
and all were under 100 % efficient.

It is all inside the spark gap !

Regards, Stefan Hartmann.




Evan Soule schrieb:
> 
> Stefan Hartmann writes:
> >This effect must be studied more in depth and indeed I have not
> >studied chemistry much, but I had it a few years in high school.
> 
> To Stefan Hartmann:
> 
> Correct.  You don't know chemistry!
> 
> ANY CHEMIST KNOWS THAT OXIDATION IS NOT AN EFFICIENT METHOD TO PRODUCE
> ELECTRICITY!  NO SUCH METHOD IS EXPLAINED IN ELECTR0-CHEMISTRY!
> 
> WHAT YOU STATE IN YOUR RECENT EMAILS IS PURE HOGWASH.
> 
> Any FOOL or LIAR can think up a ridiculous hypothesis with NO SCIENTIFIC
> CREDIBILITY!
> 
> You show yourself a liar regarding conventional magnetic motors.  THEY ARE
> _NOT_ MADE TO SUPPRESS THE BACK SPIKE.  Reason:  THEY DON'T _PRODUCE_ MUCH
> BACK SPIKE.
> 
> Not long ago you were lying and saying that my Revolutionary Pioneering
> Invention did not work.  NOW, AT LEAST, YOU ARE SAYING IT DOES WORK!
> 
> You cannot even keep your lies straight!
> 
> [Signed]
> Joseph Westley Newman
> 
> ____________________
> 
> (480) 657-3722
> www.josephnewman.com

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 06:26:53 1999
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Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:26:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: Zack Widup 
Subject: Re: G-field devices
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Fred Epps wrote:

> Hi Peter,
> 
> Well of course it depends on who you talk to. As far as I know nobody has
> ever successfully made a working Tesla switch.  I heard that a guy named Jim
> Watson made a large "Bedini"-type motor generator and demonstrated it as
> overunity at a 1984 Tesla conference but details are very scanty. All the
> info I have seen is on this page:
> 
> http://www.padrak.com/ine/db/watsonj.html
> 
> If anybody knows more about this I would be interested to hear about it too,
> as it supposedly generated 12 KW (with what input I don't know).
> 
> Fred
> 
> 
> >Hi All,
> >
> >Do you know somebody who successfully rebuilt a working
> >
> >Bedini-type OU device, or a Tesla-switch?
> >
> >
> >Peter
> >from Hungary
> >
> >
> 

Do you mean someone who successfully BUILT one, or got one to WORK 
successfully?   :-)

I successfully built the Tesla switch (built it according to the diagrams) 
but could not get it to work as John Bedini claims.

I still have it and once in a while I play around with the oscillator, 
hoping to find a frequency that works.  If I ever do, I'll surely post it 
here!

Zack
 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 06:48:31 1999
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From: Pellionis Peter 
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Zack Widup  1999.09.20. 08:26:33 -5h-kor irta:
> On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Fred Epps wrote:
> > Hi Peter,
> > Well of course it depends on who you talk to. As far as I know nobody has
> > ever successfully made a working Tesla switch.  I heard that a guy named Jim
> > Watson made a large "Bedini"-type motor generator and demonstrated it as
> > overunity at a 1984 Tesla conference but details are very scanty. 
 
> > If anybody knows more about this I would be interested to hear about it too,
> > as it supposedly generated 12 KW (with what input I don't know).
> > Fred
> > >Hi All,
> > >Do you know somebody who successfully rebuilt a working
> > >Bedini-type OU device, or a Tesla-switch?
> > >Peter

> Do you mean someone who successfully BUILT one, or got one to WORK 
> successfully?   :-)
> 
> I successfully built the Tesla switch (built it according to the diagrams) 
> but could not get it to work as John Bedini claims.
> 
> I still have it and once in a while I play around with the oscillator, 
> hoping to find a frequency that works.  If I ever do, I'll surely post it 
> here!
> 
Hi Zack

Of course the last one :-)

Since electronic equipment can be built easier than mechanical, first I built 
Bedini's scalar battery charger! The circuit - charging and discharging worked 
correctly, but I couldn't detect any charging effect.  

I used a 12V Sony NP1 Ni-Cd battery, and measured the current on 
a 0.5 ohm serial resistor. With different frequencies and duty cycles the 
average was only discharging. The battery was slowly discharged. :-(
I will play with it. 

Peter

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 07:13:08 1999
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Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:12:10 +0200 (CEST)
From: Emmanuel Coulon 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: starting some free energy devices
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Hello energy hackers,
I plan to play with three ideas among many that are on KeelyNet:
1) water gas generator, RF electrolysis where the water is the
dielectric insulator of a capacitor in series with a diode and
a coil. Could someone help me with the range of voltage, power
and frequency to experiment ?
2) the so-called 'scalar wave battery charger' using two capacitors
and switches in order to charge them in parallel and discharge them
in series, feeding back energy in the battery. But in which component
can happen the overunity gain ? It seems incredible for many people,
but I want to believe in it: I tried it and the battery voltage
started to increase...but for 30 secs only :-( Maybe I should use
lead batteries instead of NiCd ones ? Please help !
3) Did someone build the multi-wave oscillator of Lakhovski ?
Can it be fed with a Tesla coil ?
I found two patent descriptions of Lakhovski's multi-wave devices
on the web, copied them, but unfortunately lost the files and the
URL. If someone knows where to find them, please help.
[Although free energy is very interesting, I don't have enough time
to spend with all matters discussed here. I just seek for energy
and health independance at home before having girlfriends, then
getting married, then having children... life is too short, so I
just want to have some knowledge that will help my family when I
will have one]

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 07:32:04 1999
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Message-Id: <199909201433.LAA14575@bigbox.plug-in.com.br>
From: "Marcelo Puhl" 
Organization: Computec Ltda
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:32:16 -3
Subject: Re: G-field devices
Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br
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> 
> I used a 12V Sony NP1 Ni-Cd battery, and measured the current on 
> a 0.5 ohm serial resistor. With different frequencies and duty cycles the 
> average was only discharging. The battery was slowly discharged. :-(
> I will play with it. 
> 
> Peter
> 

I got the same results with a 12V car battery.

Also tried to simulate the circuit on Electronic Workbech with no success.

Maybe that circuit could work if we switch a coil with the capacitors.


Marcelo Puhl
mark@plug-in.com.br
-------------------------------------------
Get paid to surf the WEB !
Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet !
http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608
-------------------------------------------

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 07:41:49 1999
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Hi,

I just received this email which might prove
that a right tuned spark gap can deliver negative power
back to the power supply:

-------- Original Message --------
Betreff: Re: DISCLOSURE
Datum: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:03:21 -0300
Von: "jdelac@infovia" 
An: "Stefan Hartmann" 

Hi Stefan.
I've read your comment on Newman motor and your excelents tests on it in
a web page http://www.overunity.com/newman2/ .
I've encountered with same effect in an experiment with HT (ignition
coil powered with a 3055 transistor and 555 oscillating in audio band).
In digital amp meter in serie with 12v suply I can see a great down
(negative values) on it when an spark on HV section was created.
I can't remember the materials of spark gap, but this was accidental,
thereby it's was probably a copper wire of connections and the coil
screw only.
If you want more details, let me know.
Bear my english, please!

========
2nd message:

Well, the HV coil is a car ignition system coil and it's a
autotransformer
actually, thereby it haven't primmary or secundary, it's only a big
coil.
I don't see spike anywhere, I just see a continuous negative value on
digital
amp meter in serie with supply (12v) wires when I create an arc in HV
section
and
negative wire of supply. When the arc is destroyed (manually unclose the
wire
connected to HV section) the current rise to the normal values (100 to
200
ma.).
I suspect of  Chernetsky effect too.
If you want a diagram of circuit, I can draw it and send to you, it's
very
simple.


Regards, Stefan.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 09:02:48 1999
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From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: The source of overunity, was "Altruism virus"
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:00:12 -0400
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>    Maxwell's equations have their exact analogy in hydrodynamics

Bellocq in his work with Compression Wave Pumps documented
some of these Hydro effects that match electrical effects
like series and parallel circuits.

You can find some info at my web page:
	http://www.csonline.net/bpaddock/

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 09:37:39 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" 
To: , "Free Energy" ,
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Cc: "Bill Wallace`" 
Subject: Re: Proof of spark effect generating negative power ?
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:31:28 -0700
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Hi Stefan and all,

What is the name of this new experimenter, so I can write to him?

(I apologize in advance for the length of this post, which is due to long
quotations, but there may be some on this list who do not realize the large
body of precedent here...)

I've encountered with same effect in an experiment with HT (ignition
>coil powered with a 3055 transistor and 555 oscillating in audio band).
>In digital amp meter in serie with 12v suply I can see a great down
>(negative values) on it when an spark on HV section was created.
>I can't remember the materials of spark gap, but this was accidental,
>thereby it's was probably a copper wire of connections and the coil
>screw only.

I don't see spike anywhere, I just see a continuous negative value on
>digital
>amp meter in serie with supply (12v) wires when I create an arc in HV
>section
>and
>negative wire of supply. When the arc is destroyed (manually unclose the
>wire
>connected to HV section) the current rise to the normal values (100 to
>200
>ma.).
>I suspect of  Chernetsky effect too.

Of course this is not so much a Newman machine as a Dragone electro-entropic
generator.
I refer you to Tim Vaughn's excellent article at:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/NewMcool.htm

in which he describes this device:

At the conference Leon showed me and others, his "electroentropic device"
which seemed to show an excess energy gain. It consisted of a Neon sign
transformer secondary coil connected in series with a micrometer adjustable
spark gap also in series with a light bulb and a 575 volt battery pack. The
battery pack also had a 3.5 uFD 4000 volt capacitor connected in parallel
across it. The spark gap device was a small black box with a micrometer
adjustment knob and two wires sticking out. The wires were connected with
alligator clips and small gauge wire.

When the spark gap was shorted, the bulb would not glow at all as only 25
milliamperes was flowing through it due to the 18000 ohms of resistance in
the neon sign transformer. When Leon would carefully adjust the spark gap
device the light would glow quite brightly and the current would increase to
over 1000 milliamperes.

Leon told me that he would get the same effect with a Newman type coil
connect instead of the Neon sign transformer. Leon told me and this was
later confirmed by Dr. P.T. Pappas ( a physicist from Athens, Greece ) that
when the spark gap was operating in "excess energy mode" they were able to
measure a drop in temperature of the coil of about 2 degrees Fahrenheit or
(0.8 Celsius). The spark gap was what they called cold cathode glow
discharge spark.

Leon Dragone also told me that he had measured a similar temperature drop in
the coil of the Newman motor he had constructed. As far as I know he never
attempted to thermally insulate the coil from its surroundings.

End quote.

And the Dragone generator is nearly identical to the basic Chernetsky setup
as tested by Alexander Frolov at:

http://www.time-machine.spb.ru/work.htm

in which he says:

Load is connected in serial with discharge arc. When the distance between
electrodes is more that minimum arc distance and there is no discharge,
there is no current in load ( lamp ) also. The amperemeter ( maximum value
is 1 A ) show current 0.3 A. Power input is equal to 10Vx0.3A=3W.  When the
arc discharge between electrodes is created, the lamp is lighting and there
is the power output about 2 W. But there is no any increase of the input
direct current. Amperemeter value is 0.28A that means the decrease of input
current when the arc is working in secondary circuit. When  screw-driver
make short connection between electrodes the current is equal to 0.58 A. It
is ordinary case for any transformator: direct connection of the load
produce the increase of consumed power.

Alexander Chernetsky  [5] explained his result as pinch-effect for current
of arc that must be equal to many hundred Ampere. In his explanation was
used the virtual particles concept and vacuum zero point energy theory.

End quote.

Along with the Correas and other earlier experiments I think this gives near
conclusive evidence that arcs can give overunity effects.  However it is
still to be determined whether the OU is in the ARC per se, or if it is in
the interaction of the arc with the COIL.  This is evidenced by the two
explanations given above, with Dragone feeling that a magnetic effect in the
coil is responsible for the OO and Chernetski feeling that is an interaction
of the arc with ZPE is responsible.
I'm sorry, Stefan but I don't think your chemical action hypothesis is
credible. There are too many different arc materials involved here for one
thing.
It is obvious that Newman's rotating magnet is unnecessary for the effect,
and it may even be a hindrance. There are three possible coil configurations
to try with an arc circuit like this:
1) high mu core, composed of ferrite or steel
2) air core
3) magnetized core
Unusual effects have been observed with each of these, so which is better?

I think that this area of research is the single most likely to succeed in
getting a demonstrable overunity effect.

Fred





From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 10:28:35 1999
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From: Pellionis Peter 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: starting some free energy devices
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Emmanuel Coulon  1999.09.20. 16:12:10 +2h-kor irta:
 
> 2) the so-called 'scalar wave battery charger' using two capacitors
> and switches in order to charge them in parallel and discharge them
> in series, feeding back energy in the battery. But in which component
> can happen the overunity gain ? It seems incredible for many people,
> but I want to believe in it: I tried it and the battery voltage
> started to increase...but for 30 secs only :-( Maybe I should use
> lead batteries instead of NiCd ones ? Please help ! 

Hi

I built Bedini's scalar battery charger as well. The circuit - charging and 
discharging worked correctly, but I couldn't detect any charging effect. 
I used a 12V Sony NP1 Ni-Cd battery, and measured the current on 
a 0.5 ohm serial resistor. 

With different frequencies and duty cycles the average was only discharging. 
The battery was slowly discharged. :-(  I will play with it later. 
 
Marcelo's experience: "I got the same results with a 12V car battery. Also tried 
to simulate the circuit on Electronic Workbech with no success. Maybe that 
circuit could work if we switch a coil with the capacitors."


Peter

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Subject: Variations on the PFT Motors, towards a new SEARL engine...
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Dear All,

Today, I have updated my web site with a new interesting document sent by 
Dave Squires about some improvements on my PFT Motor.

" It has become clear from Jean-Louis Naudin's research on asymmetrical 
electric fields and the Biefield-Brown effect that the primary driver is the 
Poynting vector. At least this is the way it appears from the models he has 
built to test the effects. So the breakthrough we have all been waiting for 
is the evidence in JL Naudin's tests that shows us how to use the Poynting 
vector from the vector relationship ExBxS. 
.....
The principle of ExBxS appears to be identical for the ARDA project, the PFT 
motors, and the Searl SEG. The vector relationships are the same for all. As 
a result it seems prudent to have many independent tests being done around 
the world. Construction is simple and testing easy. Associated costs for 
materials should also be low. "

You will find all the document at :
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/pftmsq1.htm

Best Regards
Jean-Louis Naudin
Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 15:34:11 1999
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Hi Peter,
At 09:06 AM 9/20/99 +0100, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>Do you know somebody who successfully rebuilt a working 
>
>Bedini-type OU device, or a Tesla-switch? 
>
I built a "Bedini" type generator very similar to Jean-Louis' at:
http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/images/gfield.htm

I found an incremental efficiency of about 60% (only).
-Dave
 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 15:45:44 1999
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Hi,

have you tried to use mechanical switches
with a spark in it, when switching ?

Try this.
It is related to the ZAEV effect,
which is also probably using the spark gap energy
multiplication of jumping arcs at:

http://www.overunity.com/zaev

Best regards, Stefan.


Pellionis Peter schrieb:
> 
> Emmanuel Coulon  1999.09.20. 16:12:10 +2h-kor irta:
> 
> > 2) the so-called 'scalar wave battery charger' using two capacitors
> > and switches in order to charge them in parallel and discharge them
> > in series, feeding back energy in the battery. But in which component
> > can happen the overunity gain ? It seems incredible for many people,
> > but I want to believe in it: I tried it and the battery voltage
> > started to increase...but for 30 secs only :-( Maybe I should use
> > lead batteries instead of NiCd ones ? Please help !
> 
> Hi
> 
> I built Bedini's scalar battery charger as well. The circuit - charging and
> discharging worked correctly, but I couldn't detect any charging effect.
> I used a 12V Sony NP1 Ni-Cd battery, and measured the current on
> a 0.5 ohm serial resistor.
> 
> With different frequencies and duty cycles the average was only discharging.
> The battery was slowly discharged. :-(  I will play with it later.
> 
> Marcelo's experience: "I got the same results with a 12V car battery. Also tried
> to simulate the circuit on Electronic Workbech with no success. Maybe that
> circuit could work if we switch a coil with the capacitors."
> 
> Peter

--
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Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 16:22:51 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <6eab2f7a.25181b8e@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:21:50 EDT
Subject: Suprise! See my website!
To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Follow the rotor and shunt thru this sequence:
1. Rotor rotates and lines up with stator, magnetic field builds around coil.
2. Rotor is spin balanced so no work to speak of is needed to rotate it into 
place.
3. Shunt now rotates into place and diverts flux from stator and electrical 
power is created.
4. Shunt is spin balanced so no work to speak of is needed to rotate it into 
place.
5. Now rotor and shunt are free to be repelled by the stored energy in the 
repulsion system of the rotor.
6. Now the shunt is able to be rotated away because of it's balance system.
7. There sure is alot of free energy flying around this device while it's 
generates electricity!
8.  I believe this is o/u.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 16:23:03 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Newman commutator spark effects ?
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:22:15 +1000
Organization: Improving
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References: <26420-37E12170-887@postoffice-161.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <37E12A8F.FF9EA5D0@harti.com>  <37E6053B.B35EAC80@harti.com>
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On Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:58:19 +0200, Stefan Hartmann wrote:
[snip]
>Well, it also depends on the L of the coil !
>
>If the L of the coil is big enough and has stored lots of energy,
>then the back spike will trigger the oxidation automatically,
>when the brush passed off the commutator contact and opens the circuit !

Some materials oxidise more easily than others. That's why certain
metals are used in switch contacts, where sparking is frequent.

>
>It might be, that this spark then also oxidizes the air molecules
>and the ionized air gas is then flying against the commutator and
>brush "electrodes" which gives them an additional energy pulse,
>which represents the bigger back current spike in Newman motors.

Possibly, but run the numbers. You might get a surprise.
(I haven't done this myself, but my sense of proportion tells me that
the chemical energy isn't anywhere near enough, unless a Mills type
chemical reaction is involved).

>
>If it is not a chemical reaction then it might be also a plasma
>effect of something along the Correa and Chernetski self generating
>plasma discharge effects !

Yes, this would be very interesting, as it points to a ZPE type energy
source (or possibly CF).
[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 16:25:54 1999
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 LaFonte Research site 
1  or  http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 17:21:48 1999
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Fred Epps schrieb:
> 
> Hi Stefan and all,
> 
> What is the name of this new experimenter, so I can write to him?
> 
> (I apologize in advance for the length of this post, which is due to long
> quotations, but there may be some on this list who do not realize the large
> body of precedent here...)
> 
> I've encountered with same effect in an experiment with HT (ignition
> >coil powered with a 3055 transistor and 555 oscillating in audio band).
> >In digital amp meter in serie with 12v suply I can see a great down
> >(negative values) on it when an spark on HV section was created.
> >I can't remember the materials of spark gap, but this was accidental,
> >thereby it's was probably a copper wire of connections and the coil
> >screw only.
> 
> I don't see spike anywhere, I just see a continuous negative value on
> >digital
> >amp meter in serie with supply (12v) wires when I create an arc in HV
> >section
> >and
> >negative wire of supply. When the arc is destroyed (manually unclose the
> >wire
> >connected to HV section) the current rise to the normal values (100 to
> >200
> >ma.).
> >I suspect of  Chernetsky effect too.
> 
> Of course this is not so much a Newman machine as a Dragone electro-entropic
> generator.
> I refer you to Tim Vaughn's excellent article at:
> 
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/NewMcool.htm
> 
> in which he describes this device:
> 
> At the conference Leon showed me and others, his "electroentropic device"
> which seemed to show an excess energy gain. It consisted of a Neon sign
> transformer secondary coil connected in series with a micrometer adjustable
> spark gap also in series with a light bulb and a 575 volt battery pack. The
> battery pack also had a 3.5 uFD 4000 volt capacitor connected in parallel
> across it. The spark gap device was a small black box with a micrometer
> adjustment knob and two wires sticking out. The wires were connected with
> alligator clips and small gauge wire.
> 
> When the spark gap was shorted, the bulb would not glow at all as only 25
> milliamperes was flowing through it due to the 18000 ohms of resistance in
> the neon sign transformer. When Leon would carefully adjust the spark gap
> device the light would glow quite brightly and the current would increase to
> over 1000 milliamperes.
> 
> Leon told me that he would get the same effect with a Newman type coil
> connect instead of the Neon sign transformer. Leon told me and this was
> later confirmed by Dr. P.T. Pappas ( a physicist from Athens, Greece ) that
> when the spark gap was operating in "excess energy mode" they were able to
> measure a drop in temperature of the coil of about 2 degrees Fahrenheit or
> (0.8 Celsius). The spark gap was what they called cold cathode glow
> discharge spark.
> 
> Leon Dragone also told me that he had measured a similar temperature drop in
> the coil of the Newman motor he had constructed. As far as I know he never
> attempted to thermally insulate the coil from its surroundings.
> 
> End quote.
> 

I had the same light bulb lightning in:

http://www.overunity.com/newman2

but it is coming from the RF current which is generated by the spark
gap.


> And the Dragone generator is nearly identical to the basic Chernetsky setup
> as tested by Alexander Frolov at:
> 
> http://www.time-machine.spb.ru/work.htm
> 


Regards, Stefan.


--
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Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 17:21:48 1999
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Evan Soule schrieb:
> 
> Stefan Hartmann writes:
> >Also what supports my claim is, that the former NBS test on Newman´s
> >motor only measured
> >around 70 % efficiency with the suppressed and grounded out back spikes.
> >So you can see here, that without the commutator spark gap effects
> >the Newman motor is not overunity.
> >It all depends on the sparks at the commutator.
> >The motor function with its mechanical output is just a normal
> >"byproduct" of the machine.
> 
> If you are going to attempt to use the "former NBS test" to support
> anything, then you are skating on non-existent ice.  That "test" has been
> thoroughly discredited (see previously published information).  In fact,
> the 3 NBS "experts" (bureaucrats) were so 'competent' that they were
> incapable of following their own test schematic.  This is well documented.

I agree, that the NBS test was really bad done, BUT:

I have the NBS test here as a copy somehwere in my archive and it was
done pretty accurate
regarding just the resistor test, which is indeed not the way to measure
a Newman machine
in its whole system efficiency.
I remember,
that they just measured electrical power output at PARALLEL resistors at
the coil
versus electrical input into the system.

So with using resistors connected PARALLEL to the coil,
there is just no arcing, when the commutator opens, cause
the curent can flow on.
So this way they suppressed any spark buildup and thus no additional
energy output !

So you can see, that the Newman motor is not electrically OU , if there
are no sparks !

(BTW: They also did not measure the magnet rotor output; friction losses
to keep it rotating)


> 
> The energy source of the system are the gyroscopic massergies found within
> the atomic domains of the conductor.

Maybe, but how are they released ??

Just only via the spark generation of the commutator spark gap !

With transistor switching without a spark it will not work !

Regards, Stefan.

> 
> Evan Soule'
> 
> Stefan Hartmann writes:
> >Mr. Newman is wrong, when he thinks,
> >that his motors can overcome the Lenz Law
> >by using HV and low input current !
> >
> >They exhibit the same counter EMF, when the rotor
> >is run as normal low voltage DC motors.
> >
> >The counter EMF of the coils "kills" the input voltage,
> >when the rotor is rotating.
> >
> >
> >The only real effect he seems not to have fully
> >studied are the spark gap effects at the commutator.
> >
> >Only there occurs the additional power output
> >via some kind of:
> >1. Chemical oxidation energy
> >or
> >2. Self generating Plasma Discharge as in a Correa or Chernetski type
> >experiment.
> >
> >If this would not be true,
> >why then had the NBS test shown only 70 % efficiency, when they
> >suppressed
> >and grounded out the back spikes ?
> >They put resistors across the commutator, so there was even no spark
> >generated at all,
> >so you can see, that only at the appearance of a spark the machine
> >might go overunity .
> >This highly supports my claim that the only mysteriuos effects are going
> >on at the spark gap of the commutator.
> >
> >Also with transistor switching a Newman machine is NOT overunity.
> >
> >I know a few people who have worked on transitorized commutated Newman
> >motors
> >and all were under 100 % efficient.
> >
> >It is all inside the spark gap !
> >
> 


--
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Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 17:39:31 1999
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http://www.overunity.com//sparkfx/sparkfx.gif


"jdelac@infovia" schrieb:
> 
> Hi Stefan.
> 
> Stefan Hartmann escribió:
> 
> > "jdelac@infovia" schrieb:
> > >
> > > Well, the HV coil is a car ignition system coil and it's a autotransformer
> > > actually, thereby it haven't primmary o secundary, it's only a big coil.
> > > I don't see spike anywhere, I just see a continuous negative value on digital
> > > amp meter in serie with supply (12v) wires when I create an arc in HV section
> > > and
> > > negative wire of supply.
> >
> > Have you looked at it with a scope ?
> 
> No yet.

Maybe it is an RF on the 12 Volts wires,
which is confusing your digital amperemeter ?

> 
> >
> >
> > How much negative ?
> 
> (-1   )Full scale in the digital amp meter, all scales (20A).


-1 Ampere ?


> 
> >
> >
> > A few MilliAmps ?
> >
> > What value ?
> >
> > > When the arc is destroyed (manually unclose the wire
> > > connected to HV section) the current rise to the normal values (100 to 200
> > > ma.).
> >
> > I see. How is your circuit ?
> >
> > Are you pulsing the HT coil via a 555 square wave generator via the
> > 3055 transistor ?
> 
> Yes, see the circuit attachment.
>

Thanks a lot !

What is the ground point ?

Where is it located ?

Is the negative pole of the circuit somehow connected with the 
ground point, where the spark goes ?

 
> >
> >
> > Where are you measuering the current ?
> >
> > At the minus pole of the battery directly ?
> 
> Yes, see the circuit.
> 
> >
> >
> > Yes, please send a diagram !
> 
> Ok!.
> 
> Maybe this is a malfunction in the tester (caused by a electric field?), but it's
> ok in all others circunstancies and I probe 3 differents models (all digital).
> I've see the tension fluctuations too.
> The circuit is simple and cheap. The spark gap is manually regulated about
> 7 to 10 mm and the frecuency is about 700 Hz. The supply is a 12V transformer with
> a full bridge and caps. I can't see the working cicle.
> If you can build one, can see yourself. And you is better prepared for investigate
> the real cause.

Okay, I will try this, when I have more time.

I will let oyu know.

Sounds very strange !

I have converted your PICTURE to GIF and will post it into the free
energy list.

http://www.overunity.com//sparkfx/sparkfx.gif

Thanks a lot.

Best regards, Stefan.


--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
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Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 17:57:33 1999
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From: Stefan Hartmann 
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> >
> > Maybe it is an RF on the 12 Volts wires,
> > which is confusing your digital amperemeter ?
> >
> 
> RF ? the oscillator work in 700 Hz. Where come from RF ?

>From the spark induced back to the primary windings !

As I remember the ignition coil
is a transformer with the secondary actually connected
to the primary coil, so you save some parts...

So if you draw a spark with your screwdriver
or to an external ground potential, the RF
waves of the spark gap could be induced back into
the primary 12 Volt circuit and
confuse your digital amperemeter !


> 
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How much negative ?
> > >
> > > (-1   )Full scale in the digital amp meter, all scales (20A).
> >
> > -1 Ampere ?
> >
> 
> No, -1 is indicating negative current out of scale.

I see, seems to indicate big RF currents.

> 
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > A few MilliAmps ?
> > > >
> > > > What value ?
> > > >
> > > > > When the arc is destroyed (manually unclose the wire
> > > > > connected to HV section) the current rise to the normal values (100 to 200
> > > > > ma.).
> > > >
> > > > I see. How is your circuit ?
> > > >
> > > > Are you pulsing the HT coil via a 555 square wave generator via the
> > > > 3055 transistor ?
> > >
> > > Yes, see the circuit attachment.
> > >
> >
> > Thanks a lot !
> >
> > What is the ground point ?
> >
> > Where is it located ?
> >
> > Is the negative pole of the circuit somehow connected with the
> > ground point, where the spark goes ?
> 
> No, the spark is in HV wire and a external mass, as a screwdriver, etc, no connected to
> a negative power supply.
> 
> >
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Where are you measuering the current ?
> > > >
> > > > At the minus pole of the battery directly ?
> > >
> > > Yes, see the circuit.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes, please send a diagram !
> > >
> > > Ok!.
> > >
> > > Maybe this is a malfunction in the tester (caused by a electric field?), but it's
> > > ok in all others circunstancies and I probe 3 differents models (all digital).
> > > I've see the tension fluctuations too.
> > > The circuit is simple and cheap. The spark gap is manually regulated about
> > > 7 to 10 mm and the frecuency is about 700 Hz. The supply is a 12V transformer with
> > > a full bridge and caps. I can't see the working cicle.
> > > If you can build one, can see yourself. And you is better prepared for investigate
> > > the real cause.
> >
> > Okay, I will try this, when I have more time.
> >
> > I will let oyu know.
> >
> 
> Ok, thanks!
> 
> >
> > Sounds very strange !
> 
> Yes...actually.
> 
> >
> >
> > I have converted your PICTURE to GIF and will post it into rthe free
> > energy list.
> 
> Ok.....do it.
> 
> >
> >
> > Thanks a lot.
> 
> Thanks again to you for your attention.
> 
> >
> >
> > Best regards, Stefan.
> >
> > >
> > >   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >                   Name: strange.bmp
> > >    strange.bmp    Type: Paint Shop Pro 5 Image (image/bmp)
> > >               Encoding: base64
> >
> > --
> > Hartmann Multimedia Service,
> > Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
> > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
> > email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
> > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 18:09:18 1999
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Stefan Hartmann escribió:

> > >
> > > Maybe it is an RF on the 12 Volts wires,
> > > which is confusing your digital amperemeter ?
> > >
> >
> > RF ? the oscillator work in 700 Hz. Where come from RF ?
>
> >From the spark induced back to the primary windings !

>
> As I remember the ignition coil
> is a transformer with the secondary actually connected
> to the primary coil, so you save some parts...
>

Yes, exactly.

>
> So if you draw a spark with your screwdriver
> or to an external ground potential, the RF
> waves of the spark gap could be induced back into
> the primary 12 Volt circuit and
> confuse your digital amperemeter !
>

Is you right...maybe.

> > > > > How much negative ?
> > > >
> > > > (-1   )Full scale in the digital amp meter, all scales (20A).
> > >
> > > -1 Ampere ?
> > >
> >
> > No, -1 is indicating negative current out of scale.
>
> I see, seems to indicate big RF currents.


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 20:53:31 1999
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Fred said;

>=20
>     The energies we recognize are the aftereffects of this ultimate =
energy
> source. Within Maxwell or the hydrodynamic equations there is no entry =
point
> for new energy. But the universe is one thing, so there is indeed such =
an
> entry point. Where is it?
>=20
>     The entry point is in ultimately small particles which are made up =
of
> and controlled by thought, but which form electromagnetic structures =
when
> combined. It is necessary to spin these particles to make stable =
structures
> out of them, and this spin is supplied by the vortex points of my =
infamous
> experiments.
>=20

snip

Thanks for your excellent and informative response Fred.=20
I can't really find anything to disagree with.....:-)

And in particular:................

>
>     When these particles are organized by the soul as a thought within =
the
> human brain, they project out to a nearby vortex point where they =
enter a
> "null point" between realities. In a way the particles are slung back =
into
> our reality like a slingshot with more energy and a spin which gives =
them a
> stable electromagnetic structure. This is governed by EM laws, which =
are
> only one form of the master set of equations which govern the movement =
of
> physical energy. The structures then end up making the physical matter =
and
> energy of our reality.
>=20

Which is something I've been giving some considerable thought to =
recently. In fact I have a few of these minor "Vortex" points quite =
clearly identified locally, and I've been toying with one or two =
experimental ideas.

For example: The application within them, of the regenerative principle =
discussed at length recently on this list, and which forms the basis for =
such devices as Black Hole antennas etc. It seems to me that if two =
active antennas of this nature were to be tuned by dual resonant =
circuits, that were electrically and mechanically disposed in a manner =
previously suggested by Mr Harvey Norris, an extremely interesting =
Lorentz action might occur in a suitable dielectric,.... or alternately, =
within a particular capacitor design I have in mind.=20

Does that sound vaguely familiar somehow ?? Almost like the two "short =
rods" Tesla inserted into the box, that connected to the electric motor, =
that powered his modified Pierce Arrow.

I wholeheartedly agree with you though about projected "thought", and it =
could very well become a real and important part of the experiment in =
this case.

snip=20

>=20
>     The universe we see is projected directly from our thought and =
powered
> by the energy of love which has its natural analog in the magnetic =
vortex.
> Love is spin, the force that coheres the particles together and brings =
them
> into cooperation. In love, differences are not dissolved but resolved =
in a
> dance of energy which creates a larger reality than the individual, be =
it
> particle or man.
>=20

Which is very interesting. And something else I've been thinking about =
lately too.  What then sets the rules......... and let's leave out for =
the moment any aetherial entity whose name rhymes with Bob.=20

If the universe (or the reality) we see, is projected from thought =
(individually, or collectively in some way) as you say, just how =
absolute and fixed, or relative, are the so called "Laws of Physics" we =
tend to believe in so tenaciously?  Or are they also simply a construct =
of the construction itself ??=20

Now there's a scientific heresy for you....:-))=20

What if Maxwells EM laws, and in fact all the laws of physics etc., are =
just as relative, just as much a part of the "dream" of reality, and the =
living universe(s) you are suggesting. What if they are only connected =
with, and apply to, those things (in this reality) that we have so far =
manifest, and therefore may have no relevance to any other mechanisms we =
might choose to create now, or in the future. In which case, it may only =
be necessary to create an extremely small change in "apparent reality", =
to generate a major violation in what we currently call "Natural Law".  =
Anyone feeling insecure?

So is it really necessary for inventors to justify their creations in =
terms of an existing paradigm?=20
I'm slowly becoming convinced in practice, that "thought" (and therefore =
the experimenter), always plays an extremely important and integral part =
in the experimental process.  Perhaps then in the field of new energy =
research we might afford to be a little more "creative" in our =
experimental approach, and less constipated and inhibited by the so =
called rules of the physical universe as we think we know them =
currently.

 SR

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------

S. N. Rae,
Blenheim,     =20
New Zealand.
srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz






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Fred said;


 


> 
>     The energies =
we=20
recognize are the aftereffects of this ultimate energy
> source. =
Within=20
Maxwell or the hydrodynamic equations there is no entry point
> =
for new=20
energy. But the universe is one thing, so there is indeed such =
an
> entry=20
point. Where is it?
> 
>     The entry =
point is=20
in ultimately small particles which are made up of
> and =
controlled by=20
thought, but which form electromagnetic structures when
> =
combined. It is=20
necessary to spin these particles to make stable structures
> out =
of them,=20
and this spin is supplied by the vortex points of my infamous
>=20
experiments.
> 


 


snip


 


Thanks for your excellent and informative response =
Fred. 
I=20
can't really find anything to disagree with.....:-)


 


And in particular:................


 


>
>     When these =
particles are=20
organized by the soul as a thought within the
> human brain, they =
project=20
out to a nearby vortex point where they enter a
> "null point" =
between=20
realities. In a way the particles are slung back into
> our =
reality like a=20
slingshot with more energy and a spin which gives them a
> stable=20
electromagnetic structure. This is governed by EM laws, which =
are
> only=20
one form of the master set of equations which govern the movement =
of
>=20
physical energy. The structures then end up making the physical matter=20
and
> energy of our reality.
> 


 


Which is something I've been giving some =
considerable thought=20
to recently. In fact I have a few of these minor "Vortex" points quite =
clearly=20
identified locally, and I've been toying with one or two experimental=20
ideas.


 


For example: The application within them, of the =
regenerative=20
principle discussed at length recently on this list, and which forms the =
basis=20
for such devices as Black Hole antennas etc. It seems to me that if two =
active=20
antennas of this nature were to be tuned by dual resonant circuits, that =
were=20
electrically and mechanically disposed in a manner previously suggested =
by Mr=20
Harvey Norris, an extremely interesting Lorentz action might occur in a =
suitable=20
dielectric,.... or alternately, within a particular capacitor design I =
have in=20
mind. 


 


Does that sound vaguely familiar somehow ?? Almost =
like the=20
two "short rods" Tesla inserted into the box, that connected to the =
electric=20
motor, that powered his modified Pierce Arrow.


 


I wholeheartedly agree with you though about =
projected=20
"thought", and it could very well become a real and important part of =
the=20
experiment in this case.


 


snip 


 


> 
>     The universe =
we see is=20
projected directly from our thought and powered
> by the energy of =
love=20
which has its natural analog in the magnetic vortex.
> Love is =
spin, the=20
force that coheres the particles together and brings them
> into=20
cooperation. In love, differences are not dissolved but resolved in =
a
>=20
dance of energy which creates a larger reality than the individual, be=20
it
> particle or man.
> 


 


Which is very interesting. And something else I've =
been=20
thinking about lately too.  What then sets the rules......... and =
let's=20
leave out for the moment any aetherial entity whose name rhymes with =
Bob.=20



 


If the universe (or the reality) we see, is =
projected from=20
thought (individually, or collectively in some way) as you say, just how =

absolute and fixed, or relative, =
are the=20
so called "Laws of Physics" we tend to believe in so tenaciously?  =
Or are=20
they also simply a construct of the construction itself ?? 


 


Now there's a scientific heresy for you....:-)) =



 


What if Maxwells EM laws, and in fact all the laws =
of physics=20
etc., are just as relative, just as much a part of the =
"dream"=20
of reality, and the living universe(s) you are suggesting. What if they =
are only=20
connected with, and apply to, those things (in this reality) that we =
have=20
so far manifest, and therefore may have no relevance to =
any=20
other mechanisms we might choose to create now, or in =
the=20
future. In which case, it may only be necessary to create an extremely =
small=20
change in "apparent reality", to generate a major violation in what we =
currently=20
call "Natural Law".  Anyone feeling insecure?


 


So is it really necessary for inventors to justify =
their=20
creations in terms of an existing paradigm? 
I'm slowly becoming =
convinced in=20
practice, that "thought" (and therefore the experimenter), =
always=20
plays an extremely important and integral part in the =
experimental=20
process.  Perhaps then in the field of new energy research we might =
afford=20
to be a little more "creative" in our experimental =
approach,=20
and less constipated and inhibited by the so called rules of the =
physical=20
universe as we think we know them =
currently.


 


 SR








S. N. =
Rae,
Blenheim,      
New=20
Zealand.
srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz


 


 



 


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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 21:19:29 1999
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Fred Epps wrote:

snip!

> At the conference Leon showed me and others, his "electroentropic device"
> which seemed to show an excess energy gain. It consisted of a Neon sign
> transformer secondary coil connected in series with a micrometer adjustable
> spark gap also in series with a light bulb and a 575 volt battery pack. The
> battery pack also had a 3.5 uFD 4000 volt capacitor connected in parallel
> across it. The spark gap device was a small black box with a micrometer
> adjustment knob and two wires sticking out. The wires were connected with
> alligator clips and small gauge wire.
>

Almost identical with the gadget I'm playing with, only I'm using a gas-filled
discharge tube in series with an air gap! WOW! I havent tried a hi-volt battery
pack yet...

>
> When the spark gap was shorted, the bulb would not glow at all as only 25
> milliamperes was flowing through it due to the 18000 ohms of resistance in
> the neon sign transformer. When Leon would carefully adjust the spark gap
> device the light would glow quite brightly and the current would increase to
> over 1000 milliamperes.
>
> Leon told me that he would get the same effect with a Newman type coil
> connect instead of the Neon sign transformer. Leon told me and this was
> later confirmed by Dr. P.T. Pappas ( a physicist from Athens, Greece ) that
> when the spark gap was operating in "excess energy mode" they were able to
> measure a drop in temperature of the coil of about 2 degrees Fahrenheit or
> (0.8 Celsius). The spark gap was what they called cold cathode glow
> discharge spark.
> And the Dragone generator is nearly identical to the basic Chernetsky setup
> as tested by Alexander Frolov at:
>
> http://www.time-machine.spb.ru/work.htm
>
> in which he says:
>
> Load is connected in serial with discharge arc. When the distance between
> electrodes is more that minimum arc distance and there is no discharge,
> there is no current in load ( lamp ) also. The amperemeter ( maximum value
> is 1 A ) show current 0.3 A. Power input is equal to 10Vx0.3A=3W.  When the
> arc discharge between electrodes is created, the lamp is lighting and there
> is the power output about 2 W. But there is no any increase of the input
> direct current. Amperemeter value is 0.28A that means the decrease of input
> current when the arc is working in secondary circuit. When  screw-driver
> make short connection between electrodes the current is equal to 0.58 A. It
> is ordinary case for any transformator: direct connection of the load
> produce the increase of consumed power.
>
> Alexander Chernetsky  [5] explained his result as pinch-effect for current
> of arc that must be equal to many hundred Ampere. In his explanation was
> used the virtual particles concept and vacuum zero point energy theory.
>
> End quote.
>
> Along with the Correas and other earlier experiments I think this gives near
> conclusive evidence that arcs can give overunity effects.  However it is
> still to be determined whether the OU is in the ARC per se, or if it is in
> the interaction of the arc with the COIL.  This is evidenced by the two
> explanations given above, with Dragone feeling that a magnetic effect in the
> coil is responsible for the OO and Chernetski feeling that is an interaction
> of the arc with ZPE is responsible.
> I'm sorry, Stefan but I don't think your chemical action hypothesis is
> credible. There are too many different arc materials involved here for one
> thing.
>

snip!

> Fred

 Ok, look...here's my take on this:

 The spark, IS a plasma. If in air..it's a N2 -> N + N reaction, which liberates

some binding energy, simple. Similar reactions can be deduced for almost any
of the noble gas series.

 Essentially the energy gain isnt all chemical...there just isnt enough binding
energy
to account for it, given that the "fueling" is cutoff by the spark envelope.
Much like
the stars in Hull's Fusor..fueling only happens at the beginning of the cycle.

 I believe that the plasma (being the 4th state of matter) acts as a COHERER for

the vacuum-quantum fluctuations. As Chernetsky put it: "The forming of virtual
pairs...where the positron stream accelerates the electron stream...giving up
some
of it's kinetic energy from a higher-state" i.e. to a lower one.

 This is the key...Moray talked about "siphoning" the Cosmos...it has to be
right!

 -Erik

ps- my gadget is setup using a 25 watt 110v bulb and I've blown a few of them
substituting a 100 watt bulb makes the device inoperative. I also smoked a pair
of ampmeters in the process...I don't think the cohered-output is ordinary AC,
it messes up my HF receivers baddly when it works, AND it seems as if the
spark isnt very hot thermally. This may actually be the legendary Polyphase
Brush-Spark that Tesla mentions so often..weird streamers and such. My device
uses a 15kv neon sign transformer, and I'm trying various things to drive it
with..
..the latest is an RF oscillator and a cheap 300watt transistorized CB linear
amp.
It seems to like 3-5MHz energy the best...doesn't appear to be OU just yet..at
least not that I could determine. So far it looks like Power In, minus I**2R
loss
equals Power Out..except for the times it blew the bulb filaments - those surges

made the 25 watt incandescants look like 'Press 25' flash bulbs! Maybe the
physical orientation (NSEW) has something to do with it..



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 21:31:54 1999
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Subject: Re: Suprise! See my website!
From: "Rick Monteverde" 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Butch -

> 8.  I believe this is o/u.

Love to see it in metal.. what are your plans for that?

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 21:58:02 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
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Subject:  Re: to Rick Re: Suprise!
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In a message dated 9/20/99 11:33:33 PM Central Daylight Time, 
rick@highsurf.com writes:

> Butch -
>  
>  > 8.  I believe this is o/u.
>  
>  Love to see it in metal.. what are your plans for that?
>  
>  - Rick Monteverde
>  Honolulu, HI
> Rick, 
All the different aspects of it have been verified as working principles. I 
just need to build a working model with all of them working in concert as in 
the drawing. I will do this as soon as possible.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 22:00:09 1999
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From: "William W. Schnabel" 
To: 
References: 
Subject: Re: Great book out!
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:59:45 -0400
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I saw this special and couldn't help thinking of this site ...
http://www.autodynamics.org  ... string theory just seems like math with no
reality in nature.  AutoDynamics says to me that many of the weird particle
theories out there are a result of an error in relativity theory.  Any
opinions on Autodynamics?
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: ; 
Sent: Friday, September 17, 1999 3:02 PM
Subject: Great book out!


> Hi all,
> You may already know about this book, but if you don't, look it up on
> amazon.com and read the reviews, I watched a special on television last
night
> on the book.
> It's  title is, The Elegant Universe
> Great reading!
> Butch
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 22:30:43 1999
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From: "Alexander V. Frolov" 
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Stefan Hartmann wrote:

> I've encountered with same effect in an experiment with HT (ignition
> coil powered with a 3055 transistor and 555 oscillating in audio band).
>

I demonstrated the role of arc discharge in serial with lamp load in
experiments for conference of 1996,
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru/frolov1.htm

Experiment included in CD video files, you can take it from me.

Alexander V. Frolov
--
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
ICQ 43757451




From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 22:30:45 1999
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Fred Epps wrote:

> And the Dragone generator is nearly identical to the basic Chernetsky setup
> as tested by Alexander Frolov at:
>
> http://www.time-machine.spb.ru/work.htm
>

> Alexander Chernetsky  [5] explained his result as pinch-effect for current
> of arc that must be equal to many hundred Ampere. In his explanation was
> used the virtual particles concept and vacuum zero point energy theory.
>

Detailed paper about Alexander Chernetsky's method and some proposals for
experiments is submitted at http://www.time-machine.spb.ru/chernetsky.htmHis
setup was 3MHz, pulses of 30 microseconds, 600VDC, in long vacuum tube filled by
hydrogen by pressure 0.1T.

Alexander V. Frolov
--
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
ICQ 43757451




From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 22:47:48 1999
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Subject: Re: Proof of spark effect generating negative power ?
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Dans un courrier daté du 21/09/99 07:33:49é), frolov@mail.admiral.ru a écrit :

> I demonstrated the role of arc discharge in serial with lamp load in
>  experiments for conference of 1996,
>  http://www.time-machine.spb.ru/frolov1.htm

Yes, this is a very good experiment and this worth to be tested.

Jean-Louis Naudin

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 23:05:12 1999
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Subject: Re: Proof of spark effect generating negative power ?
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Thanks a lot, Alexander, it is very hard to find English language material
about Chernetsky's work! I just printed this article out this morning to
study it. You sure have a lot of interesting things on your site!

BTW, wasn't there supposed to be a book out with translations of his papers
by a german guy?

Fred

>
>Detailed paper about Alexander Chernetsky's method and some proposals for
>experiments is submitted at
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru/chernetsky.htmHis
>setup was 3MHz, pulses of 30 microseconds, 600VDC, in long vacuum tube
filled by
>hydrogen by pressure 0.1T.
>
>Alexander V. Frolov
>--
>http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
>ICQ 43757451
>
>
>
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 20 23:16:42 1999
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Where are the pictures for the magnet experiments. Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: JNaudin509@aol.com 
To: frolov@mail.admiral.ru ; leoguitar@vossnet.de

Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; newman-l@emachine.com

Date: Monday, September 20, 1999 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: Proof of spark effect generating negative power ?


>Dans un courrier daté du 21/09/99 07:33:49é), frolov@mail.admiral.ru a
écrit :
>
>> I demonstrated the role of arc discharge in serial with lamp load in
>>  experiments for conference of 1996,
>>  http://www.time-machine.spb.ru/frolov1.htm
>
>Yes, this is a very good experiment and this worth to be tested.
>
>Jean-Louis Naudin
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 21 01:35:23 1999
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Subject: Re: to Rick Re: Suprise!
From: "Rick Monteverde" 
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Butch -

> All the different aspects of it have been verified as working principles. I
> just need to build a working model with all of them working in concert as in
> the drawing. I will do this as soon as possible.
> Thanks,
> Butch LaFonte

Cool! I'm sure there several people on this list who would try to duplicate
it if you get some positive results.

Good luck,

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 21 05:44:09 1999
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Evan,

without the nonlinear spark apearing,
there will be no additional energy output in a Newman motor.

I agree, that the gyroscopic mass-particles might be
a catalyst, but without opening the electrical circuit
in air via the commutator and the spark buildup,
there would be no additional energy output.

If you use conventional transistor switching without a spark,
there your gyroscopical particles will just again
decrease back to the wire and will not release
any additional energy.

This was tested by some friends already !

The spark gap is needed to release the energy back to the battery !

I say it again:
Without the spark gap and the correct tuned sparking at the commutator
the Newman motor is just a normal DC motor with low efficiency !

Regards, Stefan.


Evan Soule schrieb:
> 
> >Evan Soule schrieb:
> >>
> >> Stefan Hartmann writes:
> >> >Also what supports my claim is, that the former NBS test on Newman´s
> >> >motor only measured
> >> >around 70 % efficiency with the suppressed and grounded out back spikes.
> >> >So you can see here, that without the commutator spark gap effects
> >> >the Newman motor is not overunity.
> >> >It all depends on the sparks at the commutator.
> >> >The motor function with its mechanical output is just a normal
> >> >"byproduct" of the machine.
> >>
> >> If you are going to attempt to use the "former NBS test" to support
> >> anything, then you are skating on non-existent ice.  That "test" has been
> >> thoroughly discredited (see previously published information).  In fact,
> >> the 3 NBS "experts" (bureaucrats) were so 'competent' that they were
> >> incapable of following their own test schematic.  This is well documented.
> >
> >I agree, that the NBS test was really bad done, BUT:
> >
> >I have the NBS test here as a copy somehwere in my archive and it was
> >done pretty accurate
> >regarding just the resistor test, which is indeed not the way to measure
> >a Newman machine
> >in its whole system efficiency.
> >I remember,
> >that they just measured electrical power output at PARALLEL resistors at
> >the coil
> >versus electrical input into the system.
> >
> >So with using resistors connected PARALLEL to the coil,
> >there is just no arcing, when the commutator opens, cause
> >the curent can flow on.
> >So this way they suppressed any spark buildup and thus no additional
> >energy output !
> >
> >So you can see, that the Newman motor is not electrically OU , if there
> >are no sparks !
> >
> >(BTW: They also did not measure the magnet rotor output; friction losses
> >to keep it rotating)
> >
> >
> >>
> >> The energy source of the system are the gyroscopic massergies found within
> >> the atomic domains of the conductor.
> >
> >Maybe, but how are they released ??
> 
> They are released as Joseph Newman describes in his book --- via the
> creation of an (electo)magnetic field.  They are "released" -- or, more
> accurately TRANSFERRED in physical location from the individual atomic
> domains of the conductor into a physical manifestation of directed motion
> along the conductor (as depicted in the book).
> 
> The spark is one physical *MANIFESTATION* of the earlier gyroscopic
> massergy TRANSFER --- but it is not the SOURCE of the gyroscopic massergies
> themselves!  Those had already come from the atomic domains of the
> conductor.
> 
> As a very loose analogy (and please pardon its "looseness" but is the only
> one that comes to mind at the moment -- since, due to other committments my
> time is rather limited at present), let's say a fire (heat: gyroscopic
> massergies) starts in an apartment.  As a result the metal connection at a
> given sprinkler melts and a flood of water is released from the sprinkler
> head.
> 
> To conclude that the torrent of spraying water (spark gap) is the cause of
> the fire or the source of the heat (energy) is, of course, ludicrous.  The
> spraying water is an after-effect of the heat (energy) which was the
> essence of the fire to begin with.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Evan

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 21 05:52:35 1999
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eks1 schrieb:

> ps- my gadget is setup using a 25 watt 110v bulb and I've blown a few of them
> substituting a 100 watt bulb makes the device inoperative. I also smoked a pair
> of ampmeters in the process...I don't think the cohered-output is ordinary AC,
> it messes up my HF receivers baddly when it works, AND it seems as if the
> spark isnt very hot thermally. This may actually be the legendary Polyphase
> Brush-Spark that Tesla mentions so often..weird streamers and such. My device
> uses a 15kv neon sign transformer, and I'm trying various things to drive it
> with..
> ..the latest is an RF oscillator and a cheap 300watt transistorized CB linear
> amp.
> It seems to like 3-5MHz energy the best...doesn't appear to be OU just yet..at
> least not that I could determine. So far it looks like Power In, minus I**2R
> loss
> equals Power Out..except for the times it blew the bulb filaments - those surges
> 
> made the 25 watt incandescants look like 'Press 25' flash bulbs! Maybe the
> physical orientation (NSEW) has something to do with it..


Look at my tests with it at:

http://www.overunity.com/newman2


It is the effect of a spark gap with the CAPACITANCE
of the coil !
If you increase the capacitance by putting a cap parallel
to your coil, then you will get a more powerful light output !
(sawtooth generator !)

Without the additional cap, there is more RF on the line !
One test still to be would be to measure the
ohmic energy losses inside the coil via a thermal calorimetrical
measurement
to see, if any heat in generated inside the coil or if it might drop
the temperature like Naudin has measured in his Newman motor.

Best regards, Stefan.


--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 21 06:02:08 1999
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From: William Beaty 
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See below.  Contact him privately, for he is not a subscriber here.

((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:44:01 -0700
From: Bob Levitt 
To: billb@eskimo.com
Subject: Comments from Amateur Science

--- url ---
http://www3.sympatico.ca/aquariusr/sale1.htm

--- comments ---
Since I am trying to dump High Voltage and other electronic components
I have collected over the past 28 years, I felt you might want to list
this web site that lists what I am selling (see HV components).  Thanks

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 21 08:30:02 1999
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Message-ID: <37E7A43B.1CE9F659@harti.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:28:59 +0200
From: Stefan Hartmann 
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References: <37E2AA7E.BF994F6A@infovia.com.ar> <37E6002D.F4E24C71@harti.com> <37E60668.219F0722@infovia.com.ar> <37E60E4F.26E2ED2@harti.com> <37E65233.A84066F0@infovia.com.ar> <37E6CBB0.E686D65@harti.com> <37E6D2BA.82CAF423@infovia.com.ar> <37E6D7EC.872C6

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A60@harti.com> <37E6D7C0.BA338293@infovia.com.ar> <37E757CD.577759C4@harti.com> <37E62AF5.899DB638@infovia.com.ar>
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I see, so it was an error of the 
 digital multimeter.
 What is the normal input amperage current without the spark ?

Juan de la Cruz Barrios schrieb:
> 
> Hi Stefan
> Well, I tried the experiment again with an analog multimeter and:
> 1) When an arc is generated, with exactly adjust of spark gap, the current
> down
>      50-100 ma. aprox. and the voltage of the power supply up to 11.5-12v
> .    (originally 10.5V). If the arcgap is bad adjusted, the current arise,
> not down.
>      Never down to negative values....this seem a malfuction of digital
> equipament
>      as you indicated.
> 2) Originally experiment was testing on Avramenko plug, and I've tried this
> too this
>      time. I send the diagram. The LED bright very little, but when an arc
> is .    generated, this become to full bright.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------
> 
> If you repost it on a list, please correct a little my rush english!
> Thanks Stefan!
> 
> Stefan Hartmann escribió:
> 
> > Hi Juan,
> >
> > can you please try it again with an analog
> > amperemeter ?
> >
> > Digital voltmeters are not good for
> > this kind of measurement when RF is involved.
> >
> > Please let me know, what the analog amperemeter will
> > display !
> >
> > Also negative input current ?
> >
> > Thanks !
> >
> > Regards, Stefan.
> 
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  [Image]

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 21 09:22:34 1999
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Message-ID: <01e701bf044c$bc19db60$6a4a66d1@w7o9k8>
From: "Fred Epps" 
To: 
Subject: Re: for sale
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:20:13 -0700
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Thanks Bill,

There is probably some stuff here we need, from the looks of it.

Fred


>
>See below.  Contact him privately, for he is not a subscriber here.

>--- url ---
>http://www3.sympatico.ca/aquariusr/sale1.htm
>
>--- comments ---
>Since I am trying to dump High Voltage and other electronic components
>I have collected over the past 28 years, I felt you might want to list
>this web site that lists what I am selling (see HV components).  Thanks
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 21 09:22:35 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" 
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Subject: Re: Proof of spark effect generating negative power ?
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Hi Eks1,

>
> The spark, IS a plasma. If in air..it's a N2 -> N + N reaction, which
liberates
>
>some binding energy, simple. Similar reactions can be deduced for almost
any
>of the noble gas series.
>
> Essentially the energy gain isnt all chemical...there just isnt enough
binding
>energy
>to account for it, given that the "fueling" is cutoff by the spark
envelope.

Yes I agree with all of this.  There is a lot of cold fusion and
transmutation work that also supports what you are saying. But specifically
since we are dealing with nitrogen in air here, I'd like to point out that
none less than Lord Rayleigh saw excess energy in Nitrogen ionized by an RF
inductor. Here is the abstract of his paper:

New Studies On Active Nitrogen II: Incandescence of Metals in active
Nitrogen, and Quantitative Estimates Of The Energy Released (Proc. Roy. Soc.
A V. 176 May 1940)

It is shown that pieces of sheet gold, copper, sliver, or platinum may be
made red hot or even melted by exposing them to active nitrogen produced in
a low pressure discharge.  The nitrogen gives up its energy to the metal
which remains unacted upon.
This phenomenon is applied to measuring the energy of active nitrogen,
drawing a known quantity of gas through the activating discharge, and then
over the metal, and measuring the energy liberated on the latter.
The amount of energy collected from the gas was surprisingly large, and it
is difficult to reconcile with existing theories of the nature of active
nitrogen.  In some cases the energy was as high as 10 eV for every molecule
of nitrogen that passed through the discharge.  The quantity of energy can
with difficulty be accounted for dissociation, even if it is occuring to the
extent of 100%. The energy radiated as afterglow under favorable conditions
is only of the order of 10^-3 of the energy collected by the metal.

All th paper says about how the N2 was ionized was that a coil of 5 turns
was used, so I have to assume some sort of RF process.
This correlates well with the Stefan's reports of the hisssing gap. Although
the basic mechanism is still unknown, it is definitely possible that with
certain values of L and C in the circuit and with certain gap distances that
RF plasma oscillations are set up in the gap that lead to this peculiar
process and energy is released to the current. Alexander mentioned that
Chernetsky's tube contained hydrogen, so it is even possible that several
gasses produce this effect to varous degrees. Ahmedov Balashirin, an
inventor in Azerbaijan has also just recently announced an OU device using a
HV discharge into Cesium gas so maybe this is a broad general principle.

In that context it should be pointed out that Moray King has written
extensively on the operation of the Moray Device and theorizes ion acoustic
oscillations as a mode for tapping ZPE energy.

Also, the Correa device needs to be seriously studied to see what can be
learned from that. The pitting of their electrodes greatly resembles some
effects seen in cold fusion reactions and this in turn looks like the
melting that Rayleigh talks about. But I don't know enough about the cold
fusion stuff to say whether this is a real comparison.


>Much like
>the stars in Hull's Fusor..fueling only happens at the beginning of the
cycle.

Is this Farnsworth's Fusor?
>
> I believe that the plasma (being the 4th state of matter) acts as a
COHERER for
>
>the vacuum-quantum fluctuations.

Precisely as Moray King put it. I assume you have read his papers on this?

As Chernetsky put it: "The forming of
virtual
>pairs...where the positron stream accelerates the electron stream...giving
up
>some
>of it's kinetic energy from a higher-state" i.e. to a lower one.

In Aspden's theory on anomalous cathode pressures, which is much more
general since it applies to any mixture of electrons and ions, the ions and
electrons are both in the same electric field and get the same velocity from
it.  But the ions due to their much greater mass pass some of their energy
to the electrons, accelerating them to much higher velocities. This can only
be part of the story since there is still no excess energy there, but
perhaps the ions are sensitive to the ZPE energy in some way.
>
> This is the key...Moray talked about "siphoning" the Cosmos...it has to be
>right!

Yes I agree completely.
>
>ps- my gadget is setup using a 25 watt 110v bulb and I've blown a few of
them
>substituting a 100 watt bulb makes the device inoperative.

The next step in this research is going to require a vacuum pump and the
ablity to construct tubes with specific pressures. Given such a tube filled
with low pressure N2 I would excite the gas with an RF coil around it while
at the same time running DC through it. This setup would give better control
of the RF freq and allow for observation of various combinations.

 I also smoked a
pair
>of ampmeters in the process...I don't think the cohered-output is ordinary
AC,
>it messes up my HF receivers baddly when it works, AND it seems as if the
>spark isnt very hot thermally.

Fits with what I was saying above.

 This may actually be the legendary Polyphase
>Brush-Spark that Tesla mentions so often..weird streamers and such.

Don't know anything about that, have to get my Tesla books out.

 My
device
>uses a 15kv neon sign transformer, and I'm trying various things to drive
it
>with..
>..the latest is an RF oscillator and a cheap 300watt transistorized CB
linear
>amp.
>It seems to like 3-5MHz energy the best...doesn't appear to be OU just
yet..at
>least not that I could determine. So far it looks like Power In, minus
I**2R
>loss
>equals Power Out..except for the times it blew the bulb filaments - those
surges
>
>made the 25 watt incandescants look like 'Press 25' flash bulbs! Maybe the
>physical orientation (NSEW) has something to do with it..

You might try lining up a strong magnet in the direction of the discharge,
to create Chernetsky's vortical discharge.

Fred


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 21 09:44:02 1999
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To: 
Subject: Fw: Bedini Type Battery Charger
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:44:09 -0400
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-----Original Message-----
From: Felis Catus 
To: harti@harti.com 
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 12:34 PM
Subject: Fw: Bedini Type Battery Charger  This letter within a post to =
the group by stefan hartmann. See enclosures/postings on Japanese =
inventor Nakamatsu.  felis catus. 9/21/99


Forwaded from message sent to
-----Original Message-----
From: Felis Catus 
To: el@eowyn.lip6.fr 
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 12:29 PM
Subject: Bedini Type Battery Charger


I have found some information on an application of this 'Bedini Type =
Battery Charger'.  About six years ago, I talked with Bedini on the =
telephone, and he gave me a sketch of a circuit,. telling me that the =
publicly released book through Tesla publishing company had been =
tampered with and would not produce a working circuit...See enclosures. =
Yoshiro Nakamatsu invented the 1.44mb computer floppy disk and the =
digital wristwatch that is probably on your wrist right now.  By no =
means is he a 'crackpot' type "Dennis Lee" inventor.  I found this short =
article on an apparent 'overunity' device that cracks the water molecule =
and  runs an IC engine on hydrogen and oxygen.[see George Wiseman's =
work: www.eagle-research.com email=3D wiseman@eagle-research.com  2 KM =
Mine Camp Roac,POB 10, Galloway, BC Canada VOB1P0] in our popular =
press-his demo at an inventors exposition.  I checked on the =
'exposition'-it is a legitimate scientific/industrial exhibition here in =
USA.  I have not been  able to find further material on the water =
splitting device.  Our USPTO has a very limited collection of patents of =
Japanese origin translated into English. Others, untranslated, are in =
special government archives to be used by our patent examiners when =
trying to ascertain the originality of a US patent application in the =
grant process.  They are untranslated-the examiners using them are =
bilingual.  To find this Nakamatsu patent for the water splitting =
overunity energy device, you would have to have a bilingual =
scientifically educated friend do a hand search of the Japanese patent =
files in the USPTO archives here.  I am sure equivalent archives exist =
in France, but do not know if they are open to search by the =
public/nongovernmental people.  Here, under our FOIA or Freedom Of =
Information Act, it is my right as a citizen to access these =
archives-after running through the proper bureaucratic hoops& whistles, =
of course... The Nakamatsu patent application of which there is an =
English translation(partial) describes a battery recharging system that =
appears very similar to Bedini's, with similar claims.  Has Bedini's =
available material been altered, as I suspect it is-to produce a =
'nonworking' device?  Would studying both the Nakamatsu and Bedini =
materials enable us to produce a working device?  Let me know what you =
think of the enclosed material...
felis catus   felis@frontiernet.net =20

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-----Original =
Message-----
From:=20
Felis Catus <felis@frontiernet.net>
To:=20
harti@harti.com <harti@harti.com>
Date: =
Tuesday,=20
September 21, 1999 12:34 PM
Subject: Fw: Bedini Type Battery=20
Charger  This letter within a post to the group by stefan hartmann. =
See=20
enclosures/postings on Japanese inventor Nakamatsu.  =
felis=20
catus. 9/21/99



Forwaded from message sent =
to


-----Original =
Message-----
From:=20
Felis Catus <felis@frontiernet.net>
To:=20
el@eowyn.lip6.fr <el@eowyn.lip6.fr>
Date: =
Tuesday,=20
September 21, 1999 12:29 PM
Subject: Bedini Type Battery=20
Charger



I have found some information on an =
application=20
of this 'Bedini Type Battery Charger'.  About six years ago, I =
talked with=20
Bedini on the telephone, and he gave me a sketch of a circuit,. telling =
me that=20
the publicly released book through Tesla publishing company had been =
tampered=20
with and would not produce a working circuit...See enclosures. Yoshiro =
Nakamatsu=20
invented the 1.44mb computer floppy disk and the digital wristwatch that =
is=20
probably on your wrist right now.  By no means is he a 'crackpot' =
type=20
"Dennis Lee" inventor.  I found this short article on an =
apparent=20
'overunity' device that cracks the water molecule and  runs an IC =
engine on=20
hydrogen and oxygen.[see George Wiseman's work: www.eagle-research.com =
email=3D wiseman@eagle-research.com=
  2=20
KM Mine Camp Roac,POB 10, Galloway, BC Canada VOB1P0] in our popular =
press-his=20
demo at an inventors exposition.  I checked on the 'exposition'-it =
is a=20
legitimate scientific/industrial exhibition here in USA.  I have =
not=20
been  able to find further material on the water splitting =
device. =20
Our USPTO has a very limited collection of patents of Japanese origin =
translated=20
into English. Others, untranslated, are in special government archives =
to be=20
used by our patent examiners when trying to ascertain the originality of =
a US=20
patent application in the grant process.  They are untranslated-the =

examiners using them are bilingual.  To find this Nakamatsu patent =
for the=20
water splitting overunity energy device, you would have to have a =
bilingual=20
scientifically educated friend do a hand search of the Japanese patent =
files in=20
the USPTO archives here.  I am sure equivalent archives exist in =
France,=20
but do not know if they are open to search by the public/nongovernmental =

people.  Here, under our FOIA or Freedom Of Information Act, it is =
my right=20
as a citizen to access these archives-after running through the proper=20
bureaucratic hoops& whistles, of course... The Nakamatsu patent =
application=20
of which there is an English translation(partial) describes a battery =
recharging=20
system that appears very similar to Bedini's, with similar claims.  =
Has=20
Bedini's available material been altered, as I suspect it is-to produce =
a=20
'nonworking' device?  Would studying both the Nakamatsu and Bedini=20
materials enable us to produce a working device?  Let me know what =
you=20
think of the enclosed material...


felis catus   felis@frontiernet.net =20



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Patent Abstracts of JAPAN - 09019174




   JAPANESE PATENT OFFICE


PATENT ABSTRACTS OF =
JAPAN


 




(11) Publication number : 09019174 A

(43) Date of publication of application: 17.01.97




(51) Int.Cl

    H02N  6/00   =20
    H01L 31/04   =20
    H02J  7/35   =20
    H02N 11/00    






(21) =
Application number :  07193975


(22) Date of filing :  26.06.95
(71) Applicant : 
NAKAMATSU YOSHIRO




(72) Inventor : 
NAKAMATSU YOSHIRO




(54) HIGH-EFFICIENCY =
GENERATOR


 


(57) Abstract:



PURPOSE: To make the efficiency of AC generation high and to prolong the =
lives of cells, by=20
providing a capacitor or battery in parallel to killed cells and storing =
energy, discharging it=20
adding it to their output when the cells are made alive.=20



CONSTITUTION: Cells 4 and 5 for obtaining positive and reverse outputs =
by the irradiation of light,=20
heat, cosmic energy, etc., are arranged on divided-into- four circles =
having a center at a shaft 12,=20
and magnetic poles 14 having coils 13 for causing their currents to flow =
are provided corresponding=20
to the cells arranged on the divided-into-four circles, and permanent =
magnets 15 which rotate around=20
the shaft 12 as a center by attraction or repulsion corresponding to the =
magnetic poles 14 are=20
arranged. Generated power of cells 17 is charged in a capacitor or =
battery when light to the cells 4=20
is shut, and generated power of cells 18 is charged in a capacitor or =
battery when light to the=20
cells 5 is shut. When the cells 5 are irradiated the outputs of the =
cells 18 and discharge from the=20
capacitor or battery flow into the coil 13. As the result, the lives =
become long since the cells do=20
not deteriorate. Energy efficiency becomes high since an AC can be =
obtained directly without a=20
converter.






COPYRIGHT: =
(C)1997,JPO




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Welcome to the News Review archive of UK business =
and company news.
Your search engine has brought you to this archive because it holds =
extensive news, comment and information on many companies active in the =
United Kingdom.

Our database includes synopses of current financial news and comment =
from the leading UK newspapers, trade magazines and periodicals such as =
The Investors Chronicle. The article below is one of those that has =
matched your search criteria.





Sunday 25 Feb 1996

Profile: Yoshiro Nakamatsu
Kevin Rafferty profiles the amazing Dr `NakaMats', lateral thinking =
inventor of the floppy disc, an uncharacteristically inventive Japanese =
who holds more patents than anyone else alive or dead.=20

Page reference from newspaper [p. B7]=20




Information is available to registered readers in a variety of =
electronic formats including an automated clipping service to help you =
monitor your selected companies or business sectors. With its publishing =
partners, News Review is building a comprehensive overview of reporting =
on the UK business scene to include newspapers, trade magazines and =
European publications.

News Review is trusted by professional and private investors and =
business readers around the world as an aid to decision-making in =
fast-moving markets.

We provide a variety of low cost subscription based services to take =
advantage of the Internet and electronic delivery.

Please use the Free Trial registration form

See why News Review has become one of the leading Internet services=20


------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Developed and Managed by Information Providers Limited



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       =20
                       =20



   DAILY NEWS Fort Walton Beach, Fla. May 4, 1990 CREDIT: R. Reid

 Inventors Flock To Exposition
   MONROEVILLE., Pa. (AP) -
 If necessity is the mother of invention, is silliness  the father?
  One might think that, based on some o( the gizmos and gadgets
 on display Thursday when a convention to market lnventions got  under =
way.
   Among the items: a portable fire escape that can be anchored inside a =
window in a burning high-rise, a trap designed to lure fleas off a =
carpet, and a device designed to repel snosquitoes with sound waves.
Also displayed: a plastic gun that clears clogged drains with a blast of =
compressed air. a sand laden trash can that won't tip over, and golf =
shoes with playing tips stitched across the toes. Would you believe a =
zipper tie?  =20
   Promoters and from around the world showed off their creations at the =
Monroeville Expo Mart, in suburban Pittsburgh, seeking investors and =
marketers. =20
   The start of the three day exhibition marked the unveiling of the =
engine, created by Yoshiro Nakamatsu, who became known as the "Edison Of =
Japan" after inventing the computer floppy disk and the digital watch.=20
   Nakamatsu said his pollution free engine, called Enerex, runs on tap  =
water alone, and can create three times as much power as a standard =
gasoline engine.=20
   "It will generate electricity for any purpose", he said.  "Petroleum =
will exhaust in one hundred years".
   He said he plans to modify the engine and build a special vehicle =
powered by it. =20
   Nakamatsu displayed some of his other inventions, including packages =
of "Brain Food", which he said contains "good elements" to encourage =
clear thinking. The snack food, which tastes like seaweed, is sold in =
Japan.=20
   Nakamatsu, 62 said listening to Beethoven's Fifth Symphony and =
swimming have helped him maintain the creativity that has enabled him to =
obtain more than two thousand patents in the United States and Japan.=20
   "My best place to create inventions is under the water", he said. "So =
I swim every day". =20
                     
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Hi Stuart and all,
    As usual your comments are cogent and downright wise, Stuart :-)
    Of course that is because you are agreeing with me :-)

    >
    >     When these particles are organized by the soul as a thought within
the
    > human brain, they project out to a nearby vortex point where they
enter a
    > "null point" between realities...
    >

    >Which is something I've been giving some considerable thought to
recently. In fact I have a few of these minor "Vortex" points quite clearly
identified locally, and I've been toying with one or two experimental ideas.

    I am very glad of that. This area is one I am tirelessly promoting since
I know it has large anomalous effects.

    >For example: The application within them, of the regenerative principle
discussed at length recently on this list, and which forms the basis for
such devices as Black Hole antennas etc.

    Hmm, interesting idea.

    > It seems to me that if two active antennas of this nature were to be
tuned by dual resonant circuits, that were electrically and mechanically
disposed in a manner previously suggested by Mr Harvey Norris,

    That would be counterphase, and at right angles across the dielectric? I
will have dig up Harvey's posts now :-)

     >an extremely interesting Lorentz action might occur in a suitable
dielectric,.... or alternately, within a particular capacitor design I have
in mind.

    >Does that sound vaguely familiar somehow ?? Almost like the two "short
rods" Tesla inserted into the box, that connected to the electric motor,
that powered his modified Pierce Arrow.

    Hard to say, so little is known about that. But as I said in my letter
the essential part is sending energy into the vortex point and then catching
it as it bounces back, which certainly fits in with your idea of
regeneration. It seems to me intuitiely that vortical motion on the part of
the energy you are adding to the vortex might be a key part of the process.
And how would that be accomplished? I first thought in terms of actually
creating an EM torsion wave for a while, this could be done by facing two
circularly polarized RF antennas across the point, however I am not
knowledgeable enough to be explicit about exactly how this would be done.
and the RF losses would be high unless it as carefully engineered. But the
theory is sound.
    Now I am more incined to think that the vortical motion of the magnetic
vector potential itself is enough to do the job.  In this version a
solenoidal magnetic field is placed at the vortex and pulsed.
    The pulse accelerates the rotation of the A vector and this energy goes
into the vortex point. When the field collapses the energy is extracted.

    >I wholeheartedly agree with you though about projected "thought", and
it could very well become a real and important part of the experiment in
this case.

    There is an imporant corrolary to the thesis that thought is
electromagnetic.  And that is that electromagnetic phenomena are thoughts. A
magnetic field is very simple concrete form of consciousness, or perhaps it
would be better to say that it is "in-formed" by consciousness. If it were
not for this it would never be possible to tap these energies without
meditating at a vortex point. And in truth it would not be possible to turn
on a light without meditating at the light.  This relates to your discussion
of the lawfulness of matter below as well.

    snip

    >
    >     The universe we see is projected directly from our thought and
powered
    > by the energy of love which has its natural analog in the magnetic
vortex.
    > Love is spin, the force that coheres the particles together and brings
them
    > into cooperation. In love, differences are not dissolved but resolved
in a
    > dance of energy which creates a larger reality than the individual, be
it
    > particle or man.
    >

    >Which is very interesting. And something else I've been thinking about
lately too.  What then sets the rules......... and let's leave out for the
moment any aetherial entity whose name rhymes with Bob.

    "Gob?" :-)

    >If the universe (or the reality) we see, is projected from thought
(individually, or collectively in some way) as you say, just how absolute
and fixed, or relative, are the so called "Laws of Physics" we tend to
believe in so tenaciously?  Or are they also simply a construct of the
construction itself ??

    >Now there's a scientific heresy for you....:-))

    >What if Maxwells EM laws, and in fact all the laws of physics etc., are
just as relative, just as much a part of the "dream" of reality, and the
living universe(s) you are suggesting. What if they are only connected with,
and apply to, those things (in this reality) that we have so far manifest,
and therefore may have no relevance to any other mechanisms we might choose
to create now, or in the future. In which case, it may only be necessary to
create an extremely small change in "apparent reality", to generate a major
violation in what we currently call "Natural Law".  Anyone feeling insecure?

    This is an extremely interesting question that has occupied a great deal
of mental space for me for quite a while.  Take it as a given that
consciousness create the world we perceive.  Why then is it structured
according to laws of physics rather than laws of imagination?
    The answer I have arrived at is simple. True, consciousness creates
reality, but at the same time this is not just human consciousness.  Every
phenomenon has its own "in-forming" consciousness, and this consciousness
creates that phenomenon in the way it "prefers".
    The other basic "meta-law" of this process, aside from "consciousness
creates reality" is love, in this case in the form of cooperation. All the
thought forms which manifest their particular types of phenomena all
cooperate perfectly with each other so that nature "fits together".
    This is really a reversion to the ancient idea of nature spirits, devas,
or elementals.

    The next question is "why THIS set of laws, or cooperative agreements,
as opposed to another?". Here I refer to the many worlds theory and the
anthropic principle. All possible sets of phyiscal laws (cooperative
arrangements) exist, all composed of ultimate particles informed by types of
consciousness.  However these sets do not interact with each other, in the
same way that Buddhists and Christians mingle with those of their own mind.
The cooperation does not extend that far, so to speak.
    so in fact the laws of imagination DO create the laws of physics but it
is the collective imagination of a community of beings, who are distinct
from other such communities who create other rules.

    This does not nullify your points here, since in fact there are many
overlaps of interest between different "rule communities" and there is
"give" within each structure as well. Modern western consciousness has
forced nature to become more rigid with its rules than it actually needs to
to keep itself going. Many miracles are posible for so-called "primitive"
peope that are impossible for us because we have made the structures too
rigid.

    So is it really necessary for inventors to justify their creations in
terms of an existing paradigm?

    Not at all. But it is better to be fluent in several languages than one.

    I'm slowly becoming convinced in practice, that "thought" (and therefore
the experimenter), always plays an extremely important and integral part in
the experimental process.  Perhaps then in the field of new energy research
we might afford to be a little more "creative" in our experimental approach,
and less constipated and inhibited by the so called rules of the physical
universe as we think we know them currently.

    Certianly agree there, in theory as well as practice :-) However as
someone who comes IN from "outside the box"  I find the rules of, say,
electromagnetics refreshing and stimulating like a good game of chess. The
mind enjoys playing by rules. However I don't confuse chess with life :-)

    Fred



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 21 13:37:38 1999
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To: 
Subject: Advice on computer-based test gear
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 06:38:19 +1000
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I need an inexpensive front end for my sound card and software for a =
data logger.=20

Can anyone suggest where on the web to find a supplier?

Thanks for your response.

Peter Nielsen

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I need an inexpensive front end for my sound card and software for =
a data=20
logger. 


 


Can anyone suggest where on the web to find a supplier?


 


Thanks for your response.


 


Peter Nielsen


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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 21 13:52:35 1999
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From: "Robert Decker" 
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Someone sent me a private email and I by mistake deleted it. What was asked was the location of the NES (ATGROUP) web site.

Its at http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/index.htm

Also I found out they are no longer on the list so any contact with them would be by email and their site gives the address.

Bob.


Visit FindLaw at http://www.findlaw.com for free case law, web guide, and legal news, and get your free @JusticeMail.com address at http://www.justicemail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 21 14:15:38 1999
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The following link has quite a few shareware or freeware packages for
using a soundcard as an o-scope etc.

Hope this helps

http://web.arca.net/top/index.htm

Jim

-- 
"Education is what is left when
 you have forgotten everything
 you learned in school."
	Albert Einstein, 1936


> Peter Nielsen wrote:
> 
> I need an inexpensive front end for my sound card and software for a
> data logger.
> 
> Can anyone suggest where on the web to find a supplier?
> 
> Thanks for your response.
> 
> Peter Nielsen

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 21 15:08:44 1999
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From: Pellionis Peter 
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Feladó: Dave Dameron 
Hi Peter,
At 09:06 AM 9/20/99 +0100, you wrote:
> > Hi All,
> > Do you know somebody who successfully rebuilt a working 
> > Bedini-type OU device, or a Tesla-switch? 
>
> I built a "Bedini" type generator very similar to Jean-Louis' at:
> http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/images/gfield.htm

> I found an incremental efficiency of about 60% (only).
-Dave

Hi Dave

60% plus? You mean it worked self running?  

Did you find the secret of that gadget? Where does incremental work come from? 

I don't really see the difference between Bedini's G-field generator and a usual 
permanent magnet AC generator. 

WHY is it better than a modern, highly efficient AC generator? (with small air 
gap and very strong magnet). 

How can it give more power than expected? 

Peter

 


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>Someone sent me a private email and I by mistake deleted it. What was asked
was the location of the NES (ATGROUP) web site.
>
>Its at http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/index.htm
>
>Also I found out they are no longer on the list so any contact with them
would be by email and their site gives the address.

Thanks, I had a hard time finding it. I just read the Time Differential
Potential article, quite interesting.

Fred

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From: "Fred Epps" 
To: 
Subject: Re: Bedini Type Battery Charger
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:39:53 -0700
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Hi Felis and all,

I downloaded a copy of the Nakamatsu Bedini type patent from Micropat. =
It is of course in Japanese. I thought maybe I could read the schematic =
at least but it is hard to follow.
If there is anybody here who understands Japanese I will send it to =
them.

Fred

     The Nakamatsu patent application of which there is an English =
translation(partial) describes a battery recharging system that appears =
very similar to Bedini's, with similar claims.  Has Bedini's available =
material been altered, as I suspect it is-to produce a 'nonworking' =
device?  Would studying both the Nakamatsu and Bedini materials enable =
us to produce a working device?  Let me know what you think of the =
enclosed material...
    felis catus   felis@frontiernet.net =20

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Hi Felis and all,


 


I downloaded a copy of the Nakamatsu Bedini type =
patent from=20
Micropat. It is of course in Japanese. I thought maybe I could read the=20
schematic at least but it is hard to follow.


If there is anybody here who understands Japanese I =
will send=20
it to them.


 


Fred


 


    
 The Nakamatsu patent =
application of=20
    which there is an English translation(partial) describes a battery=20
    recharging system that appears very similar to Bedini's, with =
similar=20
    claims.  Has Bedini's available material been altered, as I =
suspect it=20
    is-to produce a 'nonworking' device?  Would studying both the =
Nakamatsu=20
    and Bedini materials enable us to produce a working device?  =
Let me=20
    know what you think of the enclosed material...

    
felis catus   felis@frontiernet.net =20
    


------=_NextPart_000_027B_01BF0447.8C29C500--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 21 16:07:23 1999
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Subject: Another Nakamatsu patent
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Hi Folks!

Apparently the Bedini type device is intended to be the output circuit for
this:

http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=JP09019175A_

JP9019175A: HIGH-EFFICIENCY DRIVER
Problem to be solved: To obtain a driving force with high efficiency by
providing a radiant energy charging part for a case where cells are not
irradiated, and using movement produced by the irradiation of iradiant
energy asa driving force.
Solution: Cells 13 are arranged on divided-into-three circles having a
center at a shaft 3, and magnetic poles 5 having coils 4 for causing their
currents to flow are provided corresponding to the cells arranged on the
divided- into-three circles. And a cylindrical permanent magnet 6 which
rotates around the shaft 3 as a center by attraction or repulsion
corresponding to the magnetic poles 5, is provided. And cells 14 to be
always irradiated perform charge/ discharge by a capacitor or battery 11,
and a rectifier diode 12. But the cells 13 and 14 are connected in series in
the same current direction, and the direction of the current of one of three
coils 4 becomes opposite when a mask rotates, and a three-phase AC is
generated, and a rotating magnetic field is generated by the coils 4 and the
magnetic poles 5. Consequently, the magnet 6 and the mask 7 continue to
rotate and make a motor which produces a driving force from the shaft 3. As
the result, it becomes possible to turn the DC output of the cells
completely into a high-frequency driving force.

Do a search for NAKAMATSU YOSHIRO on the JP list on the IBM patent server,
he has some pretty humorous patents.. I like SCENT-GENERATING CANNED FOOD
and CANDY FOR PREVENTING TRAFFIC ACCIDENT AND THE LIKE the most, but SEXUAL
SENSITIVITY IMPROVING LUBRICATING SYSTEM is pretty good too :-)


Fred

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 21 18:21:07 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk 
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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:20:00 +1000
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On Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:44:09 -0400, Felis Catus wrote:
[snip]
>them are bilingual.  To find this Nakamatsu patent for the water splitting overunity energy device, you would have to have a bilingual scientifically educated friend do a hand search of the Japanese patent files in the USPTO archives here.  I am sure equ






ivalent archives exist 
[snip]
An English copy of the Nakamatsu patent (including diagram - though
poor), can be found at:

http://www2.ipdl.jpo-miti.go.jp/dbpweb/connecter/guest/DBPinit/ENGDB/wrefpaj

by searching on *publication number* 09019174

(use patent number search at bottom).


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 21 21:30:33 1999
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Fred Epps wrote:

> Thanks a lot, Alexander, it is very hard to find English language material
> about Chernetsky's work! I just printed this article out this morning to
> study it. You sure have a lot of interesting things on your site!
>

Yes, but I can not get some profit from this web site. Sales from CDs is zero.
There is not any sponsor, but web and on-line need $$ each month...

Alexander
--
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
ICQ 43757451




From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 21 21:33:23 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:32:20 EDT
Subject: Drawing broken down to better understand!
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I have broken down my drawing to help people better understand the operation 
of the device. Also I have added a link to help those who don't understand or 
are new to the spin balance concept, a well proven concept I might add. Come 
on you guys, this looks to me to have very clear overunity output in my 
opinion. There are no classic "gray" areas here.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte
Building at this time, but this device can't be thrown together from a junk 
parts box, 75% has to be made in a machine shop. LaFonte Research site 
1  or  http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 21 22:32:13 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" 
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Subject: FROLOV CD was "Proof of spark effect generating negative power?"
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Hi Alexander,

>
>> Thanks a lot, Alexander, it is very hard to find English language
material
>> about Chernetsky's work! I just printed this article out this morning to
>> study it. You sure have a lot of interesting things on your site!
>>
>
>Yes, but I can not get some profit from this web site. Sales from CDs is
zero.
>There is not any sponsor, but web and on-line need $$ each month...

I am truly shocked at that. I know the CD has plenty of good stuff on
because of the high quality of the Conference Proceedings I got from you.  I
was putting off buying one but now I will buy it for sure.
Come on people, this guy's stuff is great! He has access to all the amazing
research done in Russia, and there is a lot.  Much of it was secret until
only a few years ago. Where is your curiosity? Buy his CD!! Or I will be
forced to discuss it constantly with just enough detail to make you
interested, but not enough for you to be satisfied :-)

Fred

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 21 22:43:07 1999
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Hi Peter and all,
At 12:07 AM 9/22/99 +0100, you wrote:

>> I found an incremental efficiency of about 60% (only).
>-Dave

>60% plus? You mean it worked self running?

No. With no electrical load, the motor used 10 watts. With a 4 watt load,
the motor input increased to about 16 watts. Thus the change in input = 6
watts.
>
>Did you find the secret of that gadget? Where does incremental work come
from? 
>
>I don't really see the difference between Bedini's G-field generator and a
usual 
>permanent magnet AC generator.

Yes, I see no difference between it and a permanent magnet AC generator. It
actually looks like some of the earliest magneto-electric machines. I see
no indication of any OU.
Because of the magnet pole arrangement (only about 30 out of 360 degrees),
I see thw waveforms with 2 peaks like on Jean-Louis' page. The waveforms
follow conventional EM induction = change in flux throiugh the coils.
>
>WHY is it better than a modern, highly efficient AC generator? (with small
air 
>gap and very strong magnet). 
>
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 21 23:32:37 1999
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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:25:18
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Subject: Re: Drawing broken down to better understand!
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Hi Butch,
At 12:32 AM 9/22/99 EDT, you wrote:
>I have broken down my drawing to help people better understand the operation 
>of the device. Also I have added a link to help those who don't understand
or 
>are new to the spin balance concept, a well proven concept I might add. Come 
>on you guys, this looks to me to have very clear overunity output in my 
>opinion. There are no classic "gray" areas here.
>Thanks,
>Butch LaFonte

> http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html
>
How is the rotor shaft connected to the "shunt" shaft? I assume they don't
always rotate together. I understand how you can "spin balance" a magnet
pair with another magnet set, but don't see how you can do this with:
1) an output coil with current flow.
2) your magnetic shunts and the middle magnet pairs.
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 22 00:10:46 1999
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Message-ID: <37E8572C.798E@intergate.bc.ca>
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:12:28 -0400
From: Alik Shereshevsky 
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Peter Nielsen wrote:
> 
> I need an inexpensive front end for my sound card and software for a
> data logger.
 
Depending on your budget you may want to take a look at
gadgets from Dataq Instruments (Dataq.com ?) . For  about 
$50-100 they sell 1-2 ch data recorder ADC box but their 
software in my opinion is the best there is (its also free).

There is a program with disgusting copy protection scheme
callled Spectra Plus. It is a fairly decent recorder / FFT
spectrum analyzer based on a sound card. They got bought out
and I do not have new URL (search on AltaVista for Spectra Plus). It
does real pretty waterfall and color spectrogram 
displays (about $200-300).

I think ELFRAD (ELF people) were developing low cost data
logger thing for their members.

Personally I really like Windaq software from Dataq. 

Alik S.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 22 06:55:22 1999
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> I have broken down my drawing to help people better understand the
operation
> of the device. Also I have added a link to help those who don't understand
or
> are new to the spin balance concept, a well proven concept I might add.
Come


It's funny how you can break down your drawings for other people to better
understand, but you can't break them down for yourself to better understand.
I agree that a balance system could be used to possibly achieve overunity,
but it's not something that can be used as a "magic bullet" to make every
device idea work.  Each device idea needs to account for how a balance
system will interact with itself.  Even though you plan to cancel out some
negative forces with a balance system, if not properly planned out the
balance system can cause more losses than it cancels, as in your latest
design.



> on you guys, this looks to me to have very clear overunity output in my
> opinion. There are no classic "gray" areas here.


It's obvious to me you missed some "gray" areas with this device, but go
ahead and build it and you will find them for yourself.  You'll finally gain
some more insight into some of these "gray" areas once you do.



> Thanks,
> Butch LaFonte
> Building at this time, but this device can't be thrown together from a
junk
> parts box, 75% has to be made in a machine shop. 
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:57:04 +0200
From: Stefan Hartmann 
Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de
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Evan Soule wrote:
> 
> >Evan,
> >
> >without the nonlinear spark apearing,
> >there will be no additional energy output in a Newman motor.
> >
> >I agree, that the gyroscopic mass-particles might be
> >a catalyst, but without opening the electrical circuit
> >in air via the commutator and the spark buildup,
> >there would be no additional energy output.
> 
> Stefan,
> 
> A definition of "catalyst" is any substance that initiates a reaction and
> enables it to take place at a lower temperature.  In this context, the
> gyroscopic particles do not enable the "spark" to take place at a lower
> temperature.  Quite the contrary.  The heat from the spark has been
> sufficient to "EXPLODE" ceramic.


If you see it this way, then one could define the spark gap as the
catalyst
for the release of the additional power.

If this is due to the collapse and collidation of gyroscopical particles
via 
E=MC^2 
or via Nitrogen gas dissociation or some kind of Correa or Chernetski
self generating 
plasma discharge or any ZPE influence, this was not yet  and still is
not yet
scientifically correctly researched !

This is what I was saying, that nobody still knows the real working
principle
and we have to find it out, so it could be scaled up more econnomically,
than now, via the use of very expensive Neodym magnets and so much
copper wire.
The economical end product must be a small solid state converter.

> >
> >If you use conventional transistor switching without a spark,
> >there your gyroscopical particles will just again
> >decrease back to the wire and will not release
> >any additional energy.
> 
> [JOSEPH NEWMAN REPLIES: "Wrong again. The additional energy output is shown
> on the Motor Shaft."]
> 

So what is the mechanical power output versus the electrical power input 
under mechanical load condition ?


> In earlier conversation you attempted to claim that the source of the
> additional energy was an "oxidation effect".  Now you are beginning to
> understand that the release of additional energy ARE the gyroscopic
> particles THEMSELVES --- however they may be physically manifested, e.g.,
> as in "sparking".

If these  are gyroscopical particles or whatever, the fact is, that with
a spark gap
(or even multiple commutator spark gaps in series, which works even
better)
there is very fast chopped nonlinear current abruption  with arcing.
There will be no mysterious effects in your motors  with transistor
switching 
and with transistors it will not go over 100 %.

> 
> ERS
> 
> >
> >This was tested by some friends already !
> >
> >The spark gap is needed to release the energy back to the battery !
> >
> >I say it again:
> >Without the spark gap and the correct tuned sparking at the commutator
> >the Newman motor is just a normal DC motor with low efficiency !
> >
> >Regards, Stefan.
> 
> Reply from Joseph Newman:
> 
> Stefan Hartmann -- you persist in being an idiot and liar.
> 
> The 400-lb Production Motor that I now have is designed to produce VERY LOW
> sparking and yet *THE POWER OUT ON THE MOTOR SHAFT IS _TREMENDOUSLY_
> GREATER THAN THE INPUT POWER TO THE MOTOR!*  FAR GREATER THAN 100%
> EFFICIENT!

Well, yes, maybe I am an total idiot and am not so smart as you are
but I know you have tried to
lower your sparking via multiple in series commutator contacts and via
the
capacitor accross the coil.
But this multiple contact commutator in series switches enhance the
rapid chopping 
of the input current  and these multiple spark gaps in series seem
to enhance the negative current pulses into the battery.

I also had one experiment, where the input current into my coil was even
lower
when I used 2 spark gaps in series instead of one spark gap.

There was much more negative back current pulses.


> 
> You LIE AGAIN!  Your comments underscore the truth of the words from the
> reputable physicist [with the Department of Energy of a major foreign
> country] who so verified the GREATER THAN 100% EFFICIENT OUTPUT of my Motor
> and said to all who make such comments (as you have made):  "You commit a
> crime against humanity."


Well this is your opinion, I just try to "MASTER" your technology
and this was what you were saying, one should try to "master" your
technology.

Maybe  I am still way off, but I don´t think so.

I guess I am pretty close ! :)


Regards, Stefan Hartmann.

> 
> [Signed]
> Joseph W. Newman

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
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Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 22 07:24:13 1999
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SWB schrieb:
> 
> Just a few comments and questions:
> 
--snip---
> 
>     Now, laying aside for the moment technical measurements, and the
> debate as to where the "extra energy" comes from, does anyone out there
> (Joe or Stefan or Jean Louis Naudin, or anybody else) have in their
> possession a motor that actually produces enough "extra energy" that it
> is actually capable of running itself? How bout itself, and a load, of
> any size? If so, how big of a load; a flashlight bulb, or the needs of a
> house? And; if so, how long has it been running?
> 
> Stefan, in looking over your pages I came across this page:
> 
> Stefan's self running page.
> http://www.overunity.com/nnew/newman7.htm
> 
>     According to this, you did at one time have a self running Newman
> motor, which also ran some lights. Is that correct? Is it still running?

If you read on , this states on the page that:
I quote:

"This is my PROPOSAL for a Newman selfrunner
with additional light and mechanical torque output.
It seems, that this can only be achieved by optimising
the coil parameters and design a coil that has a
 Tau= L/R which is bigger than 1 !"

This unfortunately has not been built yet.


> 
>     Let's clarify, regardless of how the Newman motor works, have your
> tests proven that it does work?

I still have to find out and then build the right commutator
for minimum input current.
Then I will try to measure again the mechanical output versus
electrical input.

In my former tests with my study work at the university 
the mechanical output was only about 70 % of electrical input.
But then my commutator was also not right, which I now understand
why.



> 
>     It seems to me, that according to your assertion, about the
> electrodes being the supply of "extra energy" through chemical reaction;
> then, they would eventually erode to the point of causing the motor to
> cease to run. Has that happened with your motor? 

Yes, of course, when sparking goes on the electrodes corrode fast.
The same happened to Newman´s earlier machines when the big arcing
appeared
at the commutator contacts.


>Even if some sort of
> plasma discharge was involved, I would still expect erosion of the
> electrodes, perhaps even faster than through chemical reaction alone.

Yes, you are right !
That is why it is so important to choose the right
commutator contact materials and also use multiple contacts in series
to distribute the sparking across them and this will also help
to build up more negative current spikes which will
lower the input power !


> 
> coil cooling
> http://cbr.nc.us.mensa.org/homepages/jlnaudin/html/NewMcool.htm
> 
>     Now, about coil cooling, (which hasn't been addressed lately), how
> would your lastest assertion account for that? The only way I could even
> imagine that it would happen via a chemical reaction was through an
> endothermic reaction. However, I don't think that your carbon electrodes
> and water are the required ingredients for that type of reaction.

My Newman coils never got hot or warm indeed, also after running the
motors of some half hour or more...

I did not have a calorimeter to test this and these tests are also very
complicated cause you have to be very specific with all your
test parameters and involved RF to heat conversion.

> 
>     Now, on the other hand, Mr. Pantone, who has developed the GEET
> technology, does report a cooling effect in his plasma chambers, under
> the appropiate conditions, but still, here the plasma requires a usable
> fuel.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Stephen Brummitt


Regards, Stefan.

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:53:40 +0200
From: Stefan Hartmann 
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To: Newman-L Mailing List ,
        CHRIS KUELZOW , Free Energy 
Subject: Re: total negative input power into your Newman motor !?
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CHRIS KUELZOW schrieb:
> 
> Hello,
> I have produced no evidence of mechanical OU.  However, I believe that I
> may have seen some anomalous electrical OU.  Many more tests are
> required.  But I have been focused on other things.
> http://members.home.net/ckuelzow/
> 
> Chris Kuelzow

Hi Chris,

in your update0006 
http://members.home.net/ckuelzow/Update006.html

you wrote:


"So I let it run as I absorbed the action.  I then walked around and
looked at the ammeter.  It was negative!  At all running
voltages the meter was pegged backwards, pulsating at some irregular low
frequency. 

I stopped the unit.  I reversed the connections to the meter to try to
characterize the waveform.  I started the system back up. 
Bingo!  It was exactly the same behavior. "

Now my question:

Have you got this total negative input current again with your newer
design ?

I did never get it this way. I always had positive input currents only.
But I also only used 1 commutator contact and not so many in series,
which seems
to be an advantage !

Regards, Stefan.







> 
> SWB wrote:
> >
> >SNIP
> >
> >     Now, laying aside for the moment technical measurements, and the
> > debate as to where the "extra energy" comes from, does anyone out there
> > (Joe or Stefan or Jean Louis Naudin, or anybody else) have in their
> > possession a motor that actually produces enough "extra energy" that it
> > is actually capable of running itself? How bout itself, and a load, of
> > any size? If so, how big of a load; a flashlight bulb, or the needs of a
> > house? And; if so, how long has it been running?
> >
> > S

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 22 08:43:18 1999
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From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Advice on computer-based test gear
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:42:55 GMT
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On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 06:38:19 +1000, "Peter Nielsen" 
wrote:

>I need an inexpensive front end for my sound card and software for a data logger. 

>Can anyone suggest where on the web to find a supplier?

>Thanks for your response.

>Peter Nielsen

I vaguely remember one of the oz electronic magazines 
describing such a project ... I can do a search of 
my back issues if you are interested.

Alternatively, there was a recent project using a 
serial A to D chip driven from the parallel port. 
The chip has 11 analog inputs (multiplexed) although
the project did not use them all. 

Alan Schneider.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 22 13:41:03 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <3ba35802.251a97df@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:36:47 EDT
Subject: Werjefelt info. added to site
To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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I have added some info. to my web site for those who for one reason or 
another have not gone to the the Werjefelt link.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte
 LaFonte Research site 
1   or   http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 23 08:53:18 1999
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From: RBCorn2@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:35:49 EDT
Subject: Re: Advice on computer-based test gear
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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DATAQ has excellent RS232 data cards!

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 23 09:06:40 1999
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From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock)
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Barium titanite to solar energy?
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:01:32 -0400
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Barium Titanitate Caps show up here on and off.  I can
across this message on the High Voltage list.

Has any one ever heard of this type of satellite supply?

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:47:42 +1200

[snip]

BTW, Barium titanite has an e_r which has a non-linear response to
temperature. I was trying to use this property to convert solar energy into
electrical energy. In fact, some satellites are powered by a circuit which
converts thermal energy directly into electrical energy. A battery charges
a Barium titanite capacitor, the circuit is broken, and the capacitor is
heated by the sun as the satellite rotates. The e_r of the titanite
decreases and hence the voltage across the capacitor increases. The battery
is then reconnected to the capacitor in series with a resistor and the
capacitor recharges the battery while supplying energy to the resistor. The
capacitor is then cooled and the cycle is repeated!  

Safe HVing,

Gavin Hubbard

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 23 09:09:37 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:33:18 EDT
Subject: Site slow, but seems ok now
To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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My site was slow coming up today but seems to be ok now.
Sorry if you had trouble.
Butch
 LaFonte Research site 
1  or  http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 23 09:32:14 1999
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Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:55:39 +0400
From: "Alexander V. Frolov" 
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        CHRIS KUELZOW , Free Energy 
Subject: Re: total negative input power 
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> looked at the ammeter.  It was negative!  At all running voltages the meter
> was pegged backwards, pulsating at some irregular low frequency.

In Russian this effect is known as "polarity change". Alexander Chernetsky
describe it for DC power input and arc in serial with load.

I saw this effect as unstable experimental fact for 10A current in circuit with
arc and load in serial with arc. Why the polarity is changed?

For example, negative electrically charged particle in arc is moving from
negative pole to positive and it is accelerated by electic potential field. So,
its energy is increasing when it is moving. So, when it is coming to positive
electrode with great velocity, polarity of electrode can be changed. But in this
case the field that was the reason for acceleration will be decreased up to
zero. So, the arc is self-regulated oscillation process.

Remember, Alexander Chernetsky worked with DC input to get 3 MHz arc and
pulsation of arc is parametical resonance that is depend of distance, pressure
and other physical parameters of the tube where the arc is created.

Alexander V. Frolov
--
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
ICQ 43757451




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From: HLafonte@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:25:30 EDT
Subject: Reply To Dave on device
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Dave asked,
How is the rotor shaft connected to the "shunt" shaft? I assume they don't
always rotate together. I understand how you can "spin balance" a magnet
pair with another magnet set, but don't see how you can do this with:
1) an output coil with current flow.
2) your magnetic shunts and the middle magnet pairs.
-Dave
Dave,
The shunt assembly rotates around the rotor shaft, or rather the shaft for 
the rotor runs thru the shunt assembly and the two rotate independent of each 
other.
This layout is not the way the working model would be laid out. The final 
design will need to be engineered for real world operation. The illustrations 
on the web site are just to show the concept in a series of steps. The shunt 
moving into position to cause the magnetic field in the stator to collapse 
will cause a certain loss of pull going in but you have to remember that the 
balance section for the rotor (repulsion side) now is free (because the shunt 
has by-passed the stator) to release it's stored energy to make up for this 
loss. There is a long way to go for this general concept, but at the moment 
it's putting out as much overunity energy as any other machine out there 
right now, zero. If I can get financial backing, or a loan, I hope to build 
in 3 to 6 mounths, without backing, one year or so. If you would like for me 
to explain what happens between the magnet, shunt, and stator poles, as the 
magnetic field is diverted by the shunt moving into position, let me know. I 
will write you a detailed description as I see it from my reading and 
experience. The true nature of operation in a magneto is not known by a lot 
of people in the "overunity field " and only my experience as an aircraft 
mechanic for 4 years in the Air Force gave me the knowledge of magnetos I 
came into this with. 20 years as a mechnical designer and a life long (50 
years) "self study" of different areas of technology still may not be enough 
to pull this off, maybe I'll get lucky.
Thanks for the input,
Butch

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 23 11:53:56 1999
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Reply-To: "Mary Thompson" 
From: "Mary Thompson" 
To: "freeNRG" 
Cc: "Bruce A. Perreault" 
Subject: Stephan Hartmann's Disclosure?
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:32:57 -0400
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF05D0.885261A0
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Hello Everyone,

I am a close friend of Bruce Perreault. He has asked me to subscribe to =
this list and
to forward the enclosed letter, as he is extremely busy getting his =
energy projects=20
ready for public release. Bruce does not wish to get into what he calls =
a "flame war,"
whatever that means. However, he strongly feels that his "peers" will =
want to know
the truth. He has also asked me to tell you that it won't be long now. =
He tells me=20
everyone will soon be talking about radiant energy.

             Sincerely,
             Mary Thompson


"Bruce,
=20
Take a look at this:
=20
http://www.escribe.com/science/freenrg/index.html?mID=3D5054
=20
We pointed out to Stephan Hartmann a long time ago that the excess =
energy in Newman's motor was from the arc in the spark gap reacting with =
the commutator metal compositions. We then proceeded to inform him about =
how we developed it into a glo regulator. It seems he is now releasing =
this as a "Disclosure" of research that he had developed. He does not =
mention us at all.
=20
It would be handy if you still have the emails that we sent him directly =
stating this. It might be an idea to forward them onto the freenrgl list =
to expose Hartmann's theft.
=20
Of recent he got a bit to pushy trying to get atlabs to give him more =
info on their TMB & MFVC. They told him to go jump and have withdrawn =
all information to everyone because of Hartmann's attack! I think this =
was a good move by them, because if they told Hartmann anything, he =
would, at a strategic later date, claim it as his own. Just as he has =
done with this energy in spark gap commutators idea.
=20
I hope you still have those emails. Someone needs to expose this guy =
before he scares away all the true hard working researchers that come up =
with the original ideas. You could point everyone to the glo reg info on =
your web page also, as further evidence."
=20


------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF05D0.885261A0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable










Hello Everyone,


 


I am a close friend of Bruce =
Perreault. He has=20
asked me to subscribe to this list and


to forward the enclosed letter, =
as he is extremely busy getting his energy =
projects=20



ready for public release. Bruce does =
not wish to=20
get into what he calls a "flame war,"


whatever that =
means.=20
However, he strongly feels that =
his=20
"peers" will want to know


the truth. He has also asked me to tell you that it =
won't be=20
long now. He tells me 


everyone will soon be talking about radiant=20
energy.


 


          &nbs=
p; =20
Sincerely,


          &nbs=
p; =20
Mary Thompson


 


 


"Bruce,
 
Take a =
look at=20
this:
 
htt=
p://www.escribe.com/science/freenrg/index.html?mID=3D5054
 We=20
pointed out to Stephan Hartmann a long time ago that the excess energy =
in=20
Newman's motor was from the arc in the spark gap reacting with the =
commutator=20
metal compositions. We then proceeded to inform him about how we =
developed it=20
into a glo regulator. It seems he is now releasing this as a=20
"Disclosure" of research that he had developed. He does not =
mention us=20
at all.
 
It would be handy if you still have the emails that =
we sent=20
him directly stating this. It might be an idea to forward them onto the =
freenrgl=20
list to expose Hartmann's theft.
 
Of recent he got a bit to =
pushy=20
trying to get atlabs to give him more info on their TMB & MFVC. They =
told=20
him to go jump and have withdrawn all information to everyone because of =

Hartmann's attack! I think this was a good move by them, because if they =
told=20
Hartmann anything, he would, at a strategic later date, claim it as his =
own.=20
Just as he has done with this energy in spark gap commutators=20
idea.
 
I hope you still have those emails. Someone needs to =
expose=20
this guy before he scares away all the true hard working researchers =
that come=20
up with the original ideas. You could point everyone to the glo reg info =
on your=20
web page also, as further=20
evidence."
 


------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF05D0.885261A0--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 23 18:53:04 1999
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Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:30:20 -0400
From: Felix Meyer 
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RBCorn2@aol.com schrieb:
> 
> DATAQ has excellent RS232 data cards!

If you know their WEB adresss please let us know

thanks
					Felix


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Jim Springer schrieb:
> 
> The following link has quite a few shareware or freeware packages for
> using a soundcard as an o-scope etc.
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> http://web.arca.net/top/index.htm
> 
> Jim


Thanks Jim,

I found there a few very excellent instruments, all in software.
Many thanks !
					Felix

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From: "Harvey Norris" 
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Subject: 32,800 hz resonator
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Hi all, HDN back after an abscence. I made some predictions about a
conceptual 7500 ft coil system, and a means of resonating it at AC 120
household voltage to produce this higher frequency. This idea failed at 60
hz.120 volts to produce any high frequency which could be sent to an
electrolysizor to demonstrate water fractioning.

Nevertheless certain other stategies are now being employed with the large
amperage alternators I now have made functional. These are actually two
alternators on a common shaft driven at 3600 rpm by pulley arrangement from
a 5 hp single phase 220 volt motor producing 3450 rpm. I have not yet
measured this frequency on an oscilloscope but measured inductive reactances
vs input voltage from a phase of the alternator output to calculate this
frequency. The alternator design is unique in that no slip rings are
necessary to deliver power to the field primary. This is because the field
primary does not turn! It is stationary. The output windings are also
stationary. The only part that rotates is the field poles!!

These look like two magnetic hands with fingers interspaced comprised of
steel N S poles. In order to rotate this piece around the stationary field
coil a non magnetic brass connector holds these field poles on its axis of
rotation around the field coil. The flux leakage in the space between the
fingers then serves to interact with the outer peripheral output windings of
large gauge windings able to provide large amperage on output. A segment of
steel is also present between the windings so that the flux leakage is
minimized and also provides maximum flux change as utilized in ferromagnetic
generators.

This design is highly unusual in that it is inefficient in ordinary
application, and also uses two air gaps expressed as flux leakage, as
compared to one  used in the conventional alternator design employing slip
contacts. However this design was used in large bus alternators which I used
in this modification, where the diodes were removed, and 3 separate 120
phased outputs made.

The use of the star and delta 3 phase arrangements to three phase motor
delivery has always confused me because I am still ignorant as to how a
single return wire can be used. I understand  only that each is  a mirror
picture of the other.

The design of the field pole rotation scheme means a magnetic drag will be
present even when no output is taken from the peripheral windings, thus
somewhat confusing Lenz law considerations. On the other hand a sudden
extreme short that would cause havok on a normal lenz law generator may not
burn the internal windings or even cause that much lenz law back reaction
because the windings are thick gauge and of relative small amount of turns
compared to normal design. I could be quite wrong here but from preliminary
observation of the design and its operation it appears that the windings
themselves can be shorted without significant magnetic drag on the generator
as would be suspected in ordinary designs.

These field poles each have 6 fingers, thus one revolution gives 6 cyles,
producing an operational 30 volt signal @ 360 hz when driven at 3600 rpm.
This 30 volt signal should be able to conduct an appreciable amperage on all
6 phases, which will be determined in further testing of loads. Right now
the machine is kind of unsafe and certain on/off 220 volt switches are being
made for safety operation.However the advantage of a higher than 60 hz
experimental testing frequency at higher power ranges involving 90 degree
phasing now intrudes upon my consciousness. Everything I have theorized
about is now taken out of the testings of the mind and is taken off the
drawing board and into reality. Now we shall see what is what. HDN




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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 23 21:11:26 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 00:11:08 EDT
Subject: Might be interested in this: DOE Post
To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Hi Guys,
This Is from another list I'm on, thought you might like to see it.
Butch

http://www.fe.doe.gov/techline/tl_fc4.html
Issued on September 21, 1999 

                   DOE Selects Four Projects to Begin
                  Developing Ultra-Low Cost Fuel Cells

 The Department of Energy (DOE) has selected four companies to start
down a new research path toward a dramatic reduction in the cost of fuel
cells, one of the cleanest and most efficient ways to generate
electricity.

 Secretary of Energy Bill Richardson today announced that McDermott
Technology
 Inc., Alliance, Ohio, Allied Signal Inc., Torrance, Calif., NexTech
Materials Ltd., Worthington, Ohio, and Technology Management Inc.,
Cleveland, Ohio, have been chosen to begin developing basic designs and
manufacturing processes for a new generation of ultra-low-cost 21st
century fuel cells. 

 The companies will investigate several alternative approaches to
manufacturing
all-solid-state ceramic components and fabricating them into future fuel
cell power plants. 

 "Fuel cells can offer a true breakthrough in 21st century power
generation - combining high power generating efficiencies with superior
environmental performance," Richardson said. "The major technical
challenge is cost, and while we have made excellent progress in reducing
costs, we see the potential for even more dramatic reductions by
developing new designs and manufacturing methods."

 The new projects will expand the types of ceramic-based fuel cell
technologies in the Energy Department's research program. Studies will
be done on both flat plate (planar) and tubular (extruded monolith)
designs. Until now, the department's program to develop ceramic fuel
cells - termed "solid oxide" technology - has concentrated primarily on
configurations that arrange the solid electrodes and electrolyte
materials in concentric tubes.

 Richardson said the goal of this new effort is to bring fuel cell power
plant costs down to a range of $400 to $600 per kilowatt - or roughly
half the projected costs of today's technology.

 To meet this goal, costs of the fuel cell stack - the arrangement of
the electrode/electrolyte plates that form the core of the power plant -
must be reduced to around $100 per kilowatt. Reliability and
availability are also key factors in future costs, and DOE has set a
goal of achieving 40,000-hour life
 expectancies for stacks in power plants and 10,000-hour durations for
military applications.

 The new fuel cells will be modular and designed to use multiple types
of fuels while emitting virtually no pollutants.
-- 
+----------------------------------------+
Dr Laurence Knight
Environmental Policy and Economics Division 
Queensland Environmental Protection Agency
PO Box 155, Brisbane Albert St, 4002
Tel: (07) 3227 7897  Fax: (07) 3227 8341
E-mail: laurence.knight@env.qld.gov.au

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 23 21:40:56 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Alternator Testings
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Thanks to Stuart Rae for conveying previous message.
The plain and simple fact of an idea is not readily accepted and I see from
his last post that he lends credence to my own ideas of resonance. I have
never been able to prove my theories, but now that I have the machines in my
defence, suddenly the importance of my thesis is somewhat diminished by
other considerations, namely that of producing a 32,000 hz resonator to
ascertain the practicality of high frequency water fracturing. In light of
this fact I am dropping the 4 phase electrical idea for just a little while.
In that idea each of the inputs produce a binary resonant action which is
entirely do to 180 phasing. Because this binary action is so little
understood by others when I describe it, I must repeat it again and again
before anyone can understand the ramifications applied to 4 phases. As such
I am forwarding a previous post made on NUENERGY list entitled ALTERNATOR
TESTINGS


                        Click Here ! 

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        or move to:   

    Date: 
          Thu, 23 Sep 1999 03:09:59 PDT 
    From: 
          "Harvey Norris"   
  Subject: 
          Alternator tests

  Before making these tests today, the large amperage
  binary resonant circuit
  was tested at 60 hz. This consists of  two columns of
  15 coils of 500 ft 14
  gauge wire, each having around 18.5 ohms. Some
  seemingly unusual effects of
  placing a load of a 100 watt bulb in the circuit were
  noted.

  At 120 volts ac a 100 watt bulb consumes about .83 A to
  be consuming 100
  watts. This represents an ohmic approximation of the
  lighted filament being
  about 145 ohms. Without knowing the laws of electrical
  resonance one would
  suspect that adding 18.5 ohms of resistance of the coil
  system on both ends
  of the filament, makes a total of 145+37=182 ohms
  resistance in the circuit.
  Thus 145/182 or around 80% less amperage conduction or
  around .66 A might be
  expected, and the bulb should be dimmer than that
  obtained with .83 A
  consumption.

  In reality what happens is that the bulb is about twice
  the brightness, and
  over an amp was measured through the bulb by analogue
  meter. What makes this
  astonishing demonstration possible is the fact that the
  bulb is at the
  midpoint of two oppositely phased tank circuits
  resonating at 60 hz.
  In addition to the 18.5 ohms of wire having an
  inductance of .235 H is also
  a 28 microfarad cap in parallel. The opposite condition
  exists on the other
  side of the load or filament. I have named this a
  binary resonant circuit,
  and will again supply a breif description of the
  schematic.

  It is exactly similar to that of a full wave rectifier
  consisting of two
  forward conducting diodes and two reverse. The
  difference consists of the
  fact that each of these diodes are  respectively
  replaced by  identical L
  and C values. The load is identical in the circuit to
  where the pulsed DC is
  obtained in a full wave rectifier.
  In this case the values of .235 H and 28 uf are used to
  resonate at 60 hz.

  In earlier experiments I was able to make a high
  frequency of 166,000 hz by
  making a binary resonant circuit with two 56 H coils,
  which produced a
  voltage high enough to enable an arc gap to exist at
  the load.
  I was hoping to be able to produce the same effect on
  the .23H system that
  will conduct higher amperages than the 56 H. However
  the voltage does not
  appear to be high enough to create this effect at 60
  hz.

  Thus by using the alternator at 360 hz a much higher
  inductive reactance and
  thus voltage rise can be obtained in the high amperage
  BRS. Tests today
  indicate an amperage consumption of only .028 A at 30
  volts input on the
  total resistance of 37 ohms and inductance in series of
  .47 H This gives the
  coil system almost a q of 30! I should be able to get
  over 3000 volts by BRS
  method using a  4:1 440 step up transformer connected
  to the alternator
  output voltage of 30 volts. Will report when this is
  attempted. I imagine I
  may have trouble running a transformer at 360 hz for
  long time periods,
  might heat up quickly. HDN
  Binary Resonant System
  http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201




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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 23 21:47:43 1999
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Subject: Re: 32,800 hz resonator
From: "Rick Monteverde" 
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Harvey -



> Everything I have theorized
> about is now taken out of the testings of the mind and is taken off the
> drawing board and into reality. Now we shall see what is what. HDN

 Way to go, Harvey! Good luck.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 23 23:41:23 1999
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Hi Butch,
At 12:25 AM 9/23/99 EDT, you wrote:
>Dave asked,
>How is the rotor shaft connected to the "shunt" shaft? I assume they don't
>always rotate together. I understand how you can "spin balance" a magnet
>pair with another magnet set, but don't see how you can do this with:
>1) an output coil with current flow.
>2) your magnetic shunts and the middle magnet pairs.

>This layout is not the way the working model would be laid out. The final 
>design will need to be engineered for real world operation. The
illustrations 
>on the web site are just to show the concept in a series of steps. The shunt 
>moving into position to cause the magnetic field in the stator to collapse 
>will cause a certain loss of pull going in but you have to remember that the 
>balance section for the rotor (repulsion side) now is free (because the
shunt 
>has by-passed the stator) to release it's stored energy to make up for this 
>loss. There is a long way to go for this general concept, but at the moment 
>it's putting out as much overunity energy as any other machine out there 
>right now, zero. If I can get financial backing, or a loan, I hope to build 
>in 3 to 6 mounths, without backing, one year or so. If you would like for me 
>to explain what happens between the magnet, shunt, and stator poles, as the 
>magnetic field is diverted by the shunt moving into position, let me know. I 
>will write you a detailed description as I see it from my reading and 
>experience. The true nature of operation in a magneto is not known by a lot 
>of people in the "overunity field " and only my experience as an aircraft 
>mechanic for 4 years in the Air Force gave me the knowledge of magnetos I 
>came into this with. 20 years as a mechnical designer and a life long (50 
>years) "self study" of different areas of technology still may not be enough 
>to pull this off, maybe I'll get lucky.
>Thanks for the input,
>Butch
>
Thanks, but you don't need to write up  more of the theory. Keep up your
work. I agree that lot of the knowledge comes from hands-on and many
readings, not just a book. I still don't see how the W. "magnetic battery"
can work. A rotor/stator magnet pair  can have both attraction/drag during
a cycle, but net zero torque over a revolution. Another pair can be used to
balance the first pair = spin balance.
The second pair also has zero average torque, but balancing the first pair.
The 2 pairs can have balanced torque.
When current is driven from an output coil, the torque is always one
direction.
Thus it cannot be balanced by a magnet pair. Have you found this not to be
true, or understand why?
Thanks,
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 23 23:41:23 1999
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From: Dave Dameron 
Subject: Re: 32,800 hz resonator
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Hi Harvey and all,
At 08:56 PM 9/23/99 PDT, you wrote:
>These are actually two
>alternators on a common shaft driven at 3600 rpm by pulley arrangement from
>a 5 hp single phase 220 volt motor producing 3450 rpm.
...
>The use of the star and delta 3 phase arrangements to three phase motor
>delivery has always confused me because I am still ignorant as to how a
>single return wire can be used. I understand  only that each is  a mirror
>picture of the other.

Is this 3 phase motor not the driven motor but a candidate for running off
one of the alternators? I know only of a common (return) with a star, not
delta connection. These sound like interesting alternators to test. Please
post what you find.
-Dave


>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 24 05:46:44 1999
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From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Alternator Testings
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:08:50 -0400
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>defence, suddenly the importance of my thesis is somewhat diminished by
>other considerations, namely that of producing a 32,000 hz resonator to
>ascertain the practicality of high frequency water fracturing.

Give 42,800 Hz a shot while your at it.  Some place in that
area is the "Dr. X" experiment with water MASERing...  I'm
guessing that the volume and shape of container have an effect
on the frequency.  Dr. X. used long glass tube, a few inches
in diameter.


>In reality what happens is that the bulb is about twice
>the brightness, and over an amp was measured through the
>bulb by analogue meter.

I do hope that is a True RMS meter rated for the frequencies
that you are testing.  The Old Timers here on the list like
my self remember "Measurement Errors" coming up far to often
because of improper use of equipment.  It is "Free Energy"
if it will run it self once started, or a Calorimeter (Heat
based meter, some thing like the LT1088) shows more out than
in.  Most meters are only rated for 60 Hz *SINE* waves when
you read their manuals unless they are True RMS meters, and
then they still might have a limit on frequency or crest
factor.

Glad to see some one out there actually getting their hands
dirty and trying things...

>  voltage high enough to enable an arc gap to exist at


-- 
For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at:
                   http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 24 06:35:34 1999
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> 
> "Bruce,
> 
> Take a look at this:
> 
> http://www.escribe.com/science/freenrg/index.html?mID=5054
> 
> We pointed out to Stephan Hartmann a long time ago that the excess
> energy in Newman's motor was from the arc in the spark gap reacting
> with the commutator metal compositions. We then proceeded to inform
> him about how we developed it into a glo regulator.

Wasn´t this a public email on the freenergy list ?

Anyway, why didn´t you put this up earlier onto your WEB pages ??
Can´t really remember you saying something about
the Newman principle.
So, what happened to your "glow regulator" ?

Just saw a crude circuit diagram, never any test results,
never a picture about it !

BTW, I never claim, that just me has "invented" or just me found out
the Newman spark gap concept.

I just wanted to summarize the latest test results and my pondering
about them !


> It seems he is now
> releasing this as a "Disclosure" of research that he had developed. He
> does not mention us at all.
>

Maybe the word "disclosure" was wrong and does not fit ????
English is just my second language, so please bear with me !


 
> It would be handy if you still have the emails that we sent him
> directly stating this. It might be an idea to forward them onto the
> freenrgl list to expose Hartmann's theft.

I can´t see any theft here !
I don´t sell anything !


> 
> Of recent he got a bit to pushy trying to get atlabs to give him more
> info on their TMB & MFVC. They told him to go jump and have withdrawn
> all information to everyone because of Hartmann's attack! 

Well, _they_ decided to do so. I just asked a few logical questions !

>I think this
> was a good move by them, because if they told Hartmann anything, he
> would, at a strategic later date, claim it as his own. Just as he has
> done with this energy in spark gap commutators idea.

Well, this was on open discussion and all the guys from the freenrg-l
were listening too ! So what ??


> 
> I hope you still have those emails. Someone needs to expose this guy
> before he scares away all the true hard working researchers that come
> up with the original ideas. You could point everyone to the glo reg
> info on your web page also, as further evidence."
> 

So where is the glow regulator link on your web site ?
Why didn´t you post this info with this email too ??
I can´t remember all things I have heard of 1 year ago....
and I did not care much about your glo regulator,
cause I did not see any test data on your web site.
It looked like "just another idea" at this time and as you have
not proven anything via test results, as of today I don´t know anything
about test results of your glow regulator...


Regards, Stefan.



--
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Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
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Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:56:17 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" 
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Organization: Nu Energy Horizons
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Subject: Re: Hartmann's Disclosure?
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Stefan Hartmann wrote:
> 
> >
> > "Bruce,
> >
> > Take a look at this:
> >
> > http://www.escribe.com/science/freenrg/index.html?mID=5054
> >
> > We pointed out to Stephan Hartmann a long time ago that the excess
> > energy in Newman's motor was from the arc in the spark gap reacting
> > with the commutator metal compositions. We then proceeded to inform
> > him about how we developed it into a glo regulator.
> 
> Wasn´t this a public email on the freenergy list ?


Yes, it was... we had also sent you private e-mails.
Do you have copies of the private e-mails?


> 
> Anyway, why didn´t you put this up earlier onto your WEB pages ??
> Can´t really remember you saying something about
> the Newman principle.
> So, what happened to your "glow regulator" ?


The information was posted to my website as a news flash.
It is no longer posted but I have an achieve of this posting.

The basic regulator results are still posted to my site as
an article archieve,

http://www.nuenergy.org/htm/glo-reg.htm


> 
> Just saw a crude circuit diagram, never any test results,
> never a picture about it !


There is a hand drawing on the basic regulator.



> 
> BTW, I never claim, that just me has "invented" or just me found out
> the Newman spark gap concept.


This file has been posted since April 19th, 1999...

http://www.nuenergy.org/htm/bark.htm

This article was a result of our earlier work with
the glo-regulator. Since, I have made many more
advancements. These latest developments will make
it possible to extract energy from the earth without
the need for radioactive materials. This is quite a
breath of fresh air for me.
     

> 
> I just wanted to summarize the latest test results and my pondering
> about them!


This is great... however, please give credit to the people who have
poured the foundation... this includes Mr. Newman... it turns out
that his reasoning behind his excess energy in his motors may be in
error... but please... give him credit for what he has contributed.


> 
> > It seems he is now
> > releasing this as a "Disclosure" of research that he had developed. He
> > does not mention us at all.
> >
> 
> Maybe the word "disclosure" was wrong and does not fit ????
> English is just my second language, so please bear with me !


No problem...


> 
> 
> > It would be handy if you still have the emails that we sent him
> > directly stating this. It might be an idea to forward them onto the
> > freenrgl list to expose Hartmann's theft.
> 
> I can´t see any theft here !
> I don´t sell anything !


You have implied that the principle concepts were your own
original ideas, by not posting credit to the people who
originally conceived them... this could be seen as "theft."
I welcome your contributions... if you make discoveries along
the dusty path then I will acknowledge this also, as I have
done with Calvin and Ossie.


> 
> >
> > Of recent he got a bit to pushy trying to get atlabs to give him more
> > info on their TMB & MFVC. They told him to go jump and have withdrawn
> > all information to everyone because of Hartmann's attack!
> 
> Well, _they_ decided to do so. I just asked a few logical questions !


Perhaps you need you use a different method in your approach.


> 
> >I think this
> > was a good move by them, because if they told Hartmann anything, he
> > would, at a strategic later date, claim it as his own. Just as he has
> > done with this energy in spark gap commutators idea.
> 
> Well, this was on open discussion and all the guys from the freenrg-l
> were listening too ! So what ??


The point is that inventors are very sensitive when it comes to
their discoveries. If you are validating another person's work
then you need to state this when posting results... this is done
in the professional world and should be done in our field too. 


> 
> >
> > I hope you still have those emails. Someone needs to expose this guy
> > before he scares away all the true hard working researchers that come
> > up with the original ideas. You could point everyone to the glo reg
> > info on your web page also, as further evidence."
> >
> 
> So where is the glow regulator link on your web site ?
> Why didn´t you post this info with this email too ??
> I can´t remember all things I have heard of 1 year ago....
> and I did not care much about your glo regulator,
> cause I did not see any test data on your web site.
> It looked like "just another idea" at this time and as you have
> not proven anything via test results, as of today I don´t know anything
> about test results of your glow regulator...
> 
> Regards, Stefan.
> 
> --
> Hartmann Multimedia Service,
> Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
> Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
> email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
> http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !


We have a provisional patent on the glo-regulator, this is not a
public document at this time. After all... isn't it your calling
here to do outside tests and then publish your results? If I were
to publish my test result who would believe them? Do people believe
Mr. Newman's test results?


        Respectfully, Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Sep 24 22:44:47 1999
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Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:44:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty 
Reply-To: William Beaty 
To: list physics teaching ,
        tap-l 
Subject: "Levitron" maglev device
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The "Levitron" maglev scandal trundles on.  The stolen invention continues
to make money for those who took it.  The site which exposed the scandal,
LEVITRON.COM, has been shut down because of trademark issues.  However,
the wheels of justice grind slowly forwards.  Here is a recent
newspaper article: 

  Part I:  An amazing invention, and a patent failure
  http://www.projo.com/report/pjb/stories/02602561.htm

  Part II:  The patent that failed its invention
  http://www.projo.com/report/pjb/stories/02606761.htm

This presents an ethical dilemma.  The toy is so much fun, do we buy it
anyway, even though the money goes to Bill Hones who stole it from its
originator?  Do we try to talk ourselves into justifying the theft, or
talk ourselves into believing that it never occured?  If we bought ours
before we knew that the invention was stolen, does that make it OK to do
nothing?  Or should we return our Levitrons back to Hones at Fascinations,
Seattle, with a letter explaining our opinion of his actions? 


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L




From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 25 01:46:20 1999
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From: MKSBoysal@aol.com
Message-ID: <1124b3e2.251de5ca@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 04:46:02 EDT
Subject: GYROSCOPIC INERTIAL THRUSTER
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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<< Hi guys,
I spend some time to night and wondered around number of web pages that 
talked about GYROSCOPIC INERTIAL THRUSTER and how easy its that one can make 
one.

Is any of you out there that can understand these formulas and
let me know if this an over unity machine?

Also is this is the invention that Dennis Lee and he's guys build one
and going around the country and demonstrating the machine?

here is the address below, any comments will be appreciated,
Thanks.

Mehmet.>>

http://www.open.org/~davidc/index
.htm
THE GYROSCOPIC INERTIAL THRUSTER
    A simple, mechanical inertial thruster . . . Finally a device that works! 
This document collection
 details the discovery, testing, theory, and current status of this PUBLIC 
DOMAIN device, that can
                                                        be duplicated by any 
skilled craftsperson!

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 25 05:13:25 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:11:57 EDT
Subject: Re: GYROSCOPIC INERTIAL THRUSTER
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Dans un courrier daté du 25/09/99 10:47:05é), MKSBoysal@aol.com a écrit :

> Is any of you out there that can understand these formulas and
>  let me know if this an over unity machine?
>  

Look at this at :
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/GITV2.htm
and also :
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/GITanal.htm

Regards

Jean-Louis Naudin

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 25 06:15:15 1999
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Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:16:54 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" 
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Organization: Nu Energy Horizons
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Subject: Re: "Levitron" maglev device
References: 
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Bill,

I think the second article mentioned sums it up.

"The answer is a lesson for all patent holders: A patent only protects 
its owner as long as the owner enforces it."

The lesson here is that inventors must protect their invention like they
would their own son or daughter. A patent is like a deed to your
property.
When your rights are infringed upon then you must yell it from the
roof-tops
or it will fall on deaf ears. If you do not protect your rights then why
should others even bat an eye?

It is survival of the fitest... with six billion people expected to be
alive in the year 2010 you had better watch out for number first or
you will be consumed by the sharks... this is this hard, cold reality... 
I did not make the rules.



         -Bruce A. Perreault


 

William Beaty wrote:
> 
> The "Levitron" maglev scandal trundles on.  The stolen invention continues
> to make money for those who took it.  The site which exposed the scandal,
> LEVITRON.COM, has been shut down because of trademark issues.  However,
> the wheels of justice grind slowly forwards.  Here is a recent
> newspaper article:
> 
>   Part I:  An amazing invention, and a patent failure
>   http://www.projo.com/report/pjb/stories/02602561.htm
> 
>   Part II:  The patent that failed its invention
>   http://www.projo.com/report/pjb/stories/02606761.htm
> 
> This presents an ethical dilemma.  The toy is so much fun, do we buy it
> anyway, even though the money goes to Bill Hones who stole it from its
> originator?  Do we try to talk ourselves into justifying the theft, or
> talk ourselves into believing that it never occured?  If we bought ours
> before we knew that the invention was stolen, does that make it OK to do
> nothing?  Or should we return our Levitrons back to Hones at Fascinations,
> Seattle, with a letter explaining our opinion of his actions?
> 
> ((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
> William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
> billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
> EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
> Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 25 06:55:40 1999
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From: William Beaty 
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: "Levitron" maglev device
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On Sat, 25 Sep 1999, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:

> The lesson here is that inventors must protect their invention like they
> would their own son or daughter. A patent is like a deed to your
> property.


For professional inventors, that is exactly the situation.


> When your rights are infringed upon then you must yell it from the
> roof-tops
> or it will fall on deaf ears. If you do not protect your rights then why
> should others even bat an eye?

Yes, and unfortunately the inventor of Levitron seems to think that
somebody besides himself should protect his discovery.  When nobody does,
he decides that the universe is evil.  This is silly.  When little kids
tussle in the day-care, and when one takes the toy of another, does the
victim run and hide in a corner, life permanently destroyed, forever
convinced that the whole world is evil?  Or instead does he just yank the
toy back from his tormentor and glare angrily at him? 


> It is survival of the fitest... 

Ah.  "Survival of the biggest asshole."  That is a fallacy.  Science says
differently.  If you want to see some debunking of this, see: 

   HERETICAL EVOLUTION: cooperation, artificial life, prisoners' dilemma
   http://www.amasci.com/weird/hevolv.html

> with six billion people expected to be
> alive in the year 2010 you had better watch out for number first or
> you will be consumed by the sharks... this is this hard, cold reality... 
> I did not make the rules.

Watching out for number one is what makes the world such a nasty place. 
There is a HUGE difference between doing what it takes to live well,
versus putting ourselves ahead of all others.  ONLY if we put ourselves
ahead of all others do we become surrounded with self-centered assholes. 
Why?  Because putting ourselves ahead of all others converts *US* into
assholes too, and if everyone behaves this way, then guess what?  We end
up living in a world filled with selfish idiots, and we all complain about
it, but we remain conveniently blind to the fact that *WE* are selfish
idiots as well.  To make the world a better place, we can cut the
asshole-ery out of our lives.  Does doing this make us weak?  Well, look
at me.  Am I weak?  If you think not, then perhaps there is merit to
striving to be a nonasshole. 


To maintain the stance of asshole-ness throughout life, just constantly
accuse everyone else in the world of being self-centered human slime. 
This is the best way to avoid looking at our own actions.  It is a very
powerful technique, I recommend it highly.

On the other end of the spectrum, it's very effective to say NOT that "I'm
OK and you're OK", but rather "You are human garbage but so am I,"  The
greatest power we have is to recognize exactly how bad we are.  If we know
just how bad we are, and we constantly practice keeping our eyes open to
the fact, then this alone will move us to make changes.  It's another
extremely powerful technique, even more powerful than the "Asshole colored
glasses" I mention above. 

Yes, yet another sermon.

Please deposit your contribution in the tray as it passes among the pews! 


:)



((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 25 08:58:52 1999
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From: DEADWATE@aol.com
Message-ID: 
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:58:34 EDT
Subject: Re: "Levitron" maglev device
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Bill B. wrote;
To maintain the stance of asshole-ness throughout life, just constantly
accuse everyone else in the world of being self-centered human slime. 
This is the best way to avoid looking at our own actions.  It is a very
powerful technique, I recommend it highly.


Agreed sir!  I think I like you!   Keep up the un-assholeness!

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 25 09:13:35 1999
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Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:15:16 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" 
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William Beaty wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 25 Sep 1999, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
> 
> > The lesson here is that inventors must protect their invention like they
> > would their own son or daughter. A patent is like a deed to your
> > property.
> 
> For professional inventors, that is exactly the situation.
> 
> > When your rights are infringed upon then you must yell it from the
> > roof-tops
> > or it will fall on deaf ears. If you do not protect your rights then why
> > should others even bat an eye?
> 
> Yes, and unfortunately the inventor of Levitron seems to think that
> somebody besides himself should protect his discovery.  When nobody does,
> he decides that the universe is evil.  This is silly.  When little kids
> tussle in the day-care, and when one takes the toy of another, does the
> victim run and hide in a corner, life permanently destroyed, forever
> convinced that the whole world is evil?  Or instead does he just yank the
> toy back from his tormentor and glare angrily at him?
> 
> > It is survival of the fitest...
> 
> Ah.  "Survival of the biggest asshole."  That is a fallacy.  Science says
> differently.  If you want to see some debunking of this, see:
> 
>    HERETICAL EVOLUTION: cooperation, artificial life, prisoners' dilemma
>    http://www.amasci.com/weird/hevolv.html
> 
> > with six billion people expected to be
> > alive in the year 2010 you had better watch out for number one first or
> > you will be consumed by the sharks... this is this hard, cold reality...
> > I did not make the rules.
> 
> Watching out for number one is what makes the world such a nasty place.
> There is a HUGE difference between doing what it takes to live well,
> versus putting ourselves ahead of all others.  ONLY if we put ourselves
> ahead of all others do we become surrounded with self-centered assholes.
> Why?  Because putting ourselves ahead of all others converts *US* into
> assholes too, and if everyone behaves this way, then guess what?  We end
> up living in a world filled with selfish idiots, and we all complain about
> it, but we remain conveniently blind to the fact that *WE* are selfish
> idiots as well.  To make the world a better place, we can cut the
> asshole-ery out of our lives.  Does doing this make us weak?  Well, look
> at me.  Am I weak?  If you think not, then perhaps there is merit to
> striving to be a nonasshole.


Bill, I agree whole heartedly that the world is a nasty place because of
this number one concept. Life is not fair... all I am saying is that if
confronted by one of these "assholes" then you must get right into their
face, show them that you are onto their game, stand up to them, or you
will be dog food. Personally, I treat people the way they treat me. My
heart is open to everyone. However, life has made me some what bitter in
the last few years and If someone is an "@#$*!%" I now bite back. I used
to trust everyone until it nearly cost me my life. Life is not what it 
should be. We have to accept that the world is far from perfect.

On the other hand, if people treat me with kindness and respect I give
back ten-fold. I go out of my way for those who put humanity about
materialism. 


> 
> To maintain the stance of asshole-ness throughout life, just constantly
> accuse everyone else in the world of being self-centered human slime.
> This is the best way to avoid looking at our own actions.  It is a very
> powerful technique, I recommend it highly.


Right on the head, people need to take responsibility for their deeds.
Too many times I hear how the "devil made me do it," or it was "God's
Will." Bullshit! People do good or evil deeds. If everyone were to take 
responsibility for their actions then the world would be a better place.
I am not perfect, I'm not afraid to admit this. However, if I made a
mistake
it does not excuse me from it.


> 
> On the other end of the spectrum, it's very effective to say NOT that "I'm
> OK and you're OK", but rather "You are human garbage but so am I,"  The
> greatest power we have is to recognize exactly how bad we are.  If we know
> just how bad we are, and we constantly practice keeping our eyes open to
> the fact, then this alone will move us to make changes.  It's another
> extremely powerful technique, even more powerful than the "Asshole colored
> glasses" I mention above.


I guess this is where my bitterness stems from, in defending myself
against
attacks I have to be as nasty as the person who is doing the attacking.
Whether I like it I become something that goes against my grain. If I
retreat
then I am no better because I hide and do not see the good in the world,
trust
no one, see only evil, and become paranoid. So, in my world, life is a
balancing
act. With balance there is some stability.


       -BAP


> 
> Yes, yet another sermon.
> 
> Please deposit your contribution in the tray as it passes among the pews!
> 
> :)
> 
> ((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
> William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
> billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
> EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
> Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 25 10:05:32 1999
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From: "Stefano Innocenti" 
To: 
Subject: New free-energy list in Italian language
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:01:02 +0200
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Hi list

I have activated a new discussion list about free-energy and other related
matters for Italians and Italian-spoke researchers.
You can join the list at the address http://utenti.tripod.it/altraenergia or
send an email to
altraenergia-subscribe@listbot.com .
Thank You

----------------
E' stata attivata una lista di discussione sulle tematiche relative alla
free-energy e materie correlate, in lingua italiana. Potete iscrivervi
all'indirizzo http://utenti.tripod.it/altraenergia o mandare una email a:
altraenergia-subscribe@listbot.com .
Grazie

Stefano




From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 25 10:05:35 1999
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From: "Stefano Innocenti" 
To: "freenrg-l" 
Subject: A work from Marinov
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:52:30 +0200
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Hello list

I've found some xecorocopies in the rubbish of the university of Rome,
related to a work of Stefan Marinov. I have uploaded those at the address

http://utenti.tripod.it/altraenergia/mar1.html

Stefano



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 25 10:23:41 1999
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From: "Timothy Flytcher" 
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Subject: Re: A work from Marinov
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:23:23 PDT
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Oh no Stefano ... no pic.... please try again....
>Hello list
>
>I've found some xecorocopies in the rubbish of the university of Rome,
>related to a work of Stefan Marinov. I have uploaded those at the address
>
>http://utenti.tripod.it/altraenergia/mar1.html
>
>Stefano
>
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 25 10:23:55 1999
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From: MKSBoysal@aol.com
Message-ID: 
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:23:41 EDT
Subject: Re: GYROSCOPIC INERTIAL THRUSTER 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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<< 
 Look at this at :
 http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/GITV2.htm
 and also :
 http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/GITanal.htm
 
 Regards
 
 Jean-Louis Naudin
  >>

<< Hi  Jean-Louis
Thanks for the site link above, I went and read the page and the other links 
there too.
there is lots of math there, which I know nothing about formulas, as I don't 
have much schooling. I can build machines if I see that they may have some 
overunity possibilities. So this GIT counter rotating wheels does it have a 
torque amplification ability? Over unity possibilities?

This is my question to you or any buddy else out there that can answer to 
this question I'll be grateful.

Thanks to you all,  

Mehmet.>>

This was the original message: which I was wondering whether or not this is 
an overunity machine?


http://www.open.org/~davidc/index
.htm
THE GYROSCOPIC INERTIAL THRUSTER
    A simple, mechanical inertial thruster . . . Finally a device that works! 
This document collection
 details the discovery, testing, theory, and current status of this PUBLIC 
DOMAIN device, that can
                                                        be duplicated by any 
skilled craftsperson!


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From: "Stefano Innocenti" 
To: 
Subject: R: A work from Marinov
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:53:34 +0200
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Sorry... was a my mystake... (a joke from my cash memory)
Now It works... (I hope)

Stefano


-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: Timothy Flytcher 
A: freenrg-l@eskimo.com 
Data: sabato 25 settembre 1999 19.24
Oggetto: Re: A work from Marinov


>Oh no Stefano ... no pic.... please try again....
>>Hello list
>>
>>I've found some xerocopies in the rubbish of the university of Rome,
>>related to a work of Stefan Marinov. I have uploaded those at the address
>>
>>http://utenti.tripod.it/altraenergia/mar1.html
>>
>>Stefano
>>
>>
>>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 25 12:20:33 1999
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From: RBCorn2@aol.com
Message-ID: 
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:18:37 EDT
Subject: Re: Advice on computer-based test gear
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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A few months ago there was a post for a free Data acquisition card.
Thought it would be great for audio sampling but not high enough rate, 
still...
I was able to get one but since then no more freebies.....

Their software is free, so you can check it out before purchasing the card(s).
Easier to use than Labview 


http://www.dataq.com/di194.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 25 12:39:44 1999
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From: "Bruce A. Perreault" 
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Dear Fellow Researchers,

I have just completed a tell all book on radiant energy and alpha 
fission. There a a few more pages that I need to add before it is 
released. I was planning on taking pre-orders for signed copies to 
be released right before the Y2K roll-over. I am again getting 
"cold feet." Can I please get some feedback from my peers in regards 
to this information release? Can anyone please tell me if I should
hold off until products are ready to go out the door or not?

What I really need at this point is for my worst fears to be calmed. 
I want to share my knowledge with others but not at the risk of losing
it to the sharks.  


          -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 25 13:24:12 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Message-ID: <2f9b46af.251e88f7@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:22:15 EDT
Subject: Re: GYROSCOPIC INERTIAL THRUSTER 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Dans un courrier daté du 25/09/99 19:26:41é), MKSBoysal@aol.com a écrit :

> This was the original message: which I was wondering whether or not this is 
>  an overunity machine?
>  

Unfortunately, as far as I am concerned, I have not detected some overunity 
effect in this machine, but may be I have not built the device according to 
the inventor design (???).

I suggest you to ask David Cowlishaw directly about this.

The only think that I can say, today, is that this is an amazing and funny 
device.   :-)
The unbalanced friction on the surface of the table is necessary to get the 
translation effect...

Best Regards,

Jean-Louis Naudin

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 25 13:25:18 1999
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From: eks1 
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"Bruce A. Perreault" wrote:

> Dear Fellow Researchers,
>
> I have just completed a tell all book on radiant energy and alpha
> fission. There a a few more pages that I need to add before it is
> released. I was planning on taking pre-orders for signed copies to
> be released right before the Y2K roll-over. I am again getting
> "cold feet." Can I please get some feedback from my peers in regards
> to this information release? Can anyone please tell me if I should
> hold off until products are ready to go out the door or not?

I hope this book will include ALL your circuits, AND the formulas for the
other
exotic solid-state material. If so..count one copy sold! ;)

>
>
> What I really need at this point is for my worst fears to be calmed.
> I want to share my knowledge with others but not at the risk of losing
> it to the sharks.

  Repeat after me..The only way to change the Energy Paradigm is to:
 PUBLISH PUBLISH PUBLISH!

 The only way the sharks win is if you *DON'T* publish!

 -Erik

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 25 13:26:55 1999
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From: eks1 
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------293FE692666744780C54281B
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Heh..I sent this 3 days ago..to myself..DOH!

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> Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:25:53 -0700, eks1 wrote:
> > Have you checked out the Howard Johnson motor, and if so what is your
> > opinion?
> >
> > See: http://www.newebmasters.com/freeenergy/4151431-pg1.html
> >

 OK, here's a very preliminary report about a reference that appears on the above
website...

----------start----------
AZ Industries, 4000 Highway 62 #101, Hardy AR, 72542. Tel: 870-856-3041
It has been confirmed by several who have visited their facility that this company
does indeed still produce the curved magnets and other critical components needed
to construct this motor. If you have any information relating to other sources for
these magnets, E-mail freeenergy@newebmasters.com with your magnet vendor info.
----------end-----------

 Now  I called these folks, a very nice lady answered the phone and answered a
few questions then let me chat with a fellow named Jim.  Here's what I learned:

 1) They do NOT stock the special curved magnets. These are special order items.
They've only sold a few over the years since the 1980 article appeared in Science and
Mechanics.

 2) For a single magnet 4"x6"x2", done in Nd material, the cost is $1800! YES!
(no shit) This is apparently due to the machine work that is required prior to the
material being magnetized.

 3) Jim isn't convinced that the PermMag motor even works. He feels (and it does
seem to be a consideration) that if this thing actually worked, the Chinese and most
of the rest of the Orient, would have been pumping out finished units by now.

 4) Jim also mentioned that he felt that Johnson may have used some "surplus"
magnets that were similar in shape, but not as complex as what the patent shows.

 5) AZ is a custom magnet house. They will make anything you want, in any sort
of magnetic material, for a price. As Jim pointed out, they use only First Quality
raw stock, and their machine work is second to none.

 6) They do have a catalog - and yes I asked that they (snail) mail me one.


Bottom line: Fun's Expen$ive! ;)         Does the Johnson PermMag Motor work?

I dunno...and it looks like finding out could get to be a very money intensive
proposition..but wait! There is always the CHANCE that the magnets don't have
to be so expensive! (what?) Look..if we take some soft (and CHEAP!) iron and
machine that to the special contours..then cut a square hole in the middle, and then
insert a piece of Nd square stock..wouldnt that do just as well?? I might give it a
try..build one, say, 6" in diameter....that would make the curved pieces 2.5" long
by 1.5" thick by 2" wide (or whatever width seems "good") This is where the real
torque of this motor is going to be found anyway, and you could make it wider
quite easily, still using off the shelf square stock...sort of like making a
conventional
DC motor's armateur longer..Some things to think about.

-Erik
------------



--------------293FE692666744780C54281B--

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Message-ID: <013201bf07a4$6a173500$375323cb@->
From: "Peter Nielsen" 
To: 
Subject: Re: Advice on computer-based test gear
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:21:19 +1000
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Thanks very much. Sounds promising.

I'll check it out today.

Peter Nielsen


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 25 15:23:21 1999
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http://www.phact.org/e/dennis.html

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 25 18:44:52 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" 
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On Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:00:16, Dave Dameron wrote:

> Hi Harvey and all,
> At 08:56 PM 9/23/99 PDT, you wrote:
> >These are actually two
> >alternators on a common shaft driven at 3600 rpm by pulley arrangement
from
> >a 5 hp single phase 220 volt motor producing 3450 rpm.
> ...
> >The use of the star and delta 3 phase arrangements to three phase motor
> >delivery has always confused me because I am still ignorant as to how a
> >single return wire can be used. I understand  only that each is  a
mirror
> >picture of the other.
> 
> Is this 3 phase motor not the driven motor but a candidate for running
off
> one of the alternators? I know only of a common (return) with a star, not
> delta connection. These sound like interesting alternators to test.
Please
> post what you find.
> -Dave
> 
> I am not driving a motor with this experimental alternator
> >
More specifically the alternator is to be used in tests to make a more
efficient electrolysis.  This takes 3 different lines of thought. The first
is my own where each alternator is adjusted at a 90 degree phase angle and a
single phase from each side used to series resonate large 56 Henry
inductors. In this situation when one inductor contains a maximum magnetic
field, the other  phase contains a capacitor containing a maximum electric
field. If a special cylindrical water capacitor can be made that approaches
the needed capacitive value it could be inserted into the space  of the
other coils magnetic field, and a lorentz interaction between these
components might be secured in the form of a pulsed dc, not an ac as would
be the condition in any other case. From this test I will be able to
determine if the water or electrolyte will appear to interact with the
cohered electric and magnetic fields to produce a pulsed diodic condition in
one direction. In this direction the efficiency of electrolysis should be
improved. The cohered fields should theoretically also cause a spin within a
spin at right angles of the water molecules with a gyroscopic
reaction that may result in macroscopic movement of the entire collection of
molecules in a vortex movement in the cylinders. In any case an electrolysis
reaction in these circumstances would have less heat byproduct since
translational movement of molecules expressed as heat will be converted to
spin by these cohered fields, resulting in less translational bombardment of
molecules per unit time. The need for a higher than 60 hz frequency
specially phased alternators for these kind of experiments becomes evident
in the fact that a 90 degree phase angle is needed and since the frequency
is 6 times greater than 60 hz, the capacity needed to resonate will be 36
times less, opening the possibilty that a water capacitor can supply this
lower value, which was not the case at 60 hz.

The second line of thought is to use long coiled lenghts of wire that can
conduct appreciable amperage, and be able to excite the coils into a high
frequency according to an adaptation of traditional quarter wavelength
oscillator methods employed by tesla. This has to involve a arc gap and a
voltage rise from resonance to enable this arc gap to exist. To this end I
built dual 7500 ft coil system of 19 ohms each. At 60 hz 120 volts input
this system was tried and I could not make it do this. But at 360 hz I
should get 10 times the voltage rise obtained from this .47 H inductor than
60 hz gives me. Once this high frequency arc is made two can be tried and
the  electrolysisor can be inserted between them as a load. This is my
current work and practical approach. In this binary system of resonance as I
have called it the higher voltages are immediately quenched to provide a
special power input to the electrolysizor.This should have the needed shock
to elongate the molecule by electric field considerations, and accomplish
shattering without excessive amperage input to the load of the
electrolysisor.

In my third conventional approach is to step down the 30 volts from all six
phases with 3 phase transformers on each alternator. It might be possible to
use SCR's to rapidly blink higher amperage into  a conventionally built
electrolysisor of parallel plate design. This is a gray area for me, but
these expensive items were purchased today for future needs on this
approach. Since it is the pulsing that makes efficient Browns Gas I should
get better results with 6 times higher frequency than 60 hz. The 3 phase
transformers are of delta or wye configuration, so I am getting outside help
on that problem.

These are the three approaches I will try if success is not found on any
single method. HDN




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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 25 20:19:11 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" 
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On Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:08:50 -0400, Bob Paddock wrote:

> >defence, suddenly the importance of my thesis is somewhat diminished by
> >other considerations, namely that of producing a 32,000 hz resonator to
> >ascertain the practicality of high frequency water fracturing.
> 
> Give 42,800 Hz a shot while your at it.  Some place in that
> area is the "Dr. X" experiment with water MASERing...  I'm
> guessing that the volume and shape of container have an effect
> on the frequency.  Dr. X. used long glass tube, a few inches
> in diameter.
Those tests of course were made with ultrasonic sound, not an electrical
effect and the Keely prognosis is out there to begin with. Part of the
process I am using to make the high frequency is dependent on the inductance
and length of coil windings, which would both have to be reduced to try at
42,000 hz. Considering I have not yet been able to make the 32,800 hz work
with 60 hz input on that coil system, the second try at 42,000 is on the
back burner.
> 
> >In reality what happens is that the bulb is about twice
> >the brightness, and over an amp was measured through the
> >bulb by analogue meter.
I merely supplied this example to show others some unusual facts of how
resonance can act. I neglected to state that 4 amps input was used in this
demonstation. Part of the current goes through the bulb as its position in a
tank or parallel resonant circuit. Part of the current goes along the sides
as the series resonant circuits. Each of these 180 phased 60 hz series
resonant circuits on either side of the bulb can act as an impedance
transformer or a resonant rise of voltage going to a load. The reason the
bulb gets brighter is because the source voltage, and thus amperage have
increased. When a 250 watt bulb is plugged into the circuit it is very dim,
not brighter than the 100 watt. This is because in these resonant circuits,
THE RESISTANCE OF THE LOAD DETERMINES THE VOLTAGE APPLIED TO LOAD.
> I do hope that is a True RMS meter rated for the frequencies
> that you are testing.  The Old Timers here on the list like
> my self remember "Measurement Errors" coming up far to often
> because of improper use of equipment.  It is "Free Energy"
This system is NOT free energy, but if the voltage rise on each 180 phased
series resonant phase is high enough,an arc can be made to occur in place of
the light bulb as a load. This throws the system into high frequency
possibly of a very unique kind. Under those conditions the ratio of input
energy to the system wildy fluctuates. The 56 Henry system allows conduction
@ 500 ohms before the arc is actuated by high voltage rise (q of 30) The
moment this arc forms the impedance of the system changes to 400,000 ohms
and the reduced input energy means the arc is extinguished, and the whole
cycle repeats itself as a high frequency phenomenon of 166,000 hz on that
model. Thus I observed that these kind of high frequency phenomenon are
different from classical tesla coil design where the primary arc represents
a short to the power supply. That short is what causes quenching problems to
begin with. This arc is NATURALLY SELF QUENCHING and instead of representing
a short to the power supply it represents a condition of maximum impedance
obtained by combining two tank circuits in this way. On these larger coils
the frequency obtained in this method is far higher than that predicted by a
quarter wavelength which gives 5,000 hz.@ 9 mile coil windings(I have
obtained these frequencies by other methods, but it is not continuous as in
the former) This can mean that free energy effects might be manipulated as
the fact that many oscillating electrons may be inside the coil in
quantities far surpassing that of the input. I seem to have obtained some
kind of free energy in one instance of many tested, but it is better to have
a generator isolated from ground in these instances, thus I have made the
expenditure of this alternator system.
> if it will run it self once started, or a Calorimeter (Heat
> based meter, some thing like the LT1088) shows more out than
> in.  Most meters are only rated for 60 Hz *SINE* waves when
> you read their manuals unless they are True RMS meters, and
> then they still might have a limit on frequency or crest
> factor.
Well I dont like using digital meters for these measurements, when I try to
measure amperage input to the 56 H coils in high frequency(166,000 hz) they
often blink and freeze on a single number, in the one free energy experiment
the meter froze and blinked negative amperage input, something impossible
for the meter to do! I have no idea of how to show the true power input
other than to rely on a flickering analogue needle measurement because of
the rapid changes in impedance in the high frequency circuit. I dont think
ordinary measurements at 360 hz should be a problem with analogue meters.
HDN
Binary Resonant System
http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201
> Glad to see some one out there actually getting their hands
> dirty and trying things...
Yeah I agree, this project has been years in the making. I am not that far
from Oil City, perhaps you can take a trip out to see the work when I reach
some success. HDN
> >  voltage high enough to enable an arc gap to exist at
> 
> 
> -- 
> For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at:
>                    http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/
> Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone,
> Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure,
> KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia
Experiment.
>                          http://www.uCOS-II.com
> 





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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 25 20:29:05 1999
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From: "Timothy Flytcher" 
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Subject: Re: GYROSCOPIC INERTIAL THRUSTER
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:28:41 PDT
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> >  an overunity machine?

>The only think that I can say, today, is that this is an amazing and funny
>device.   :-)
>The unbalanced friction on the surface of the table is necessary to get the
>translation effect...
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Jean-Louis Naudin

Just for a moment forget the ou.... could two of these be placed "back to 
back" to chancel the "unbalanced friction on the surface of the table"  ??? 
could this be used as a thruster for space flight??? or is there equal 
thrust in all directions???

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Sep 25 23:10:16 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" 
To: "Free Energy" 
Subject: Re: Barium Titanate to Solar Energy
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:03:01 -0700
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Hi Bob,

Yes I have some docs on this someplace, generally called thermoferroelectric
converters. It was used in the 50's as a power supply for buoys, and there
are a couple of patents for various forms.  One type uses a fixed capacitor
with a rotating vane over it to create heat variations which change the C to
gain energy.
There is also an anlagous magnetic form using the curie point of ferrous
materials.

Fred

(I was dropped off list by my provider for a few days, hence the delayed
message).

Fred




>Has any one ever heard of this type of satellite supply?

BTW, Barium
titanite has an e_r which has a non-linear response totemperature. I was
trying
to use this property to convert solar energy intoelectrical energy. In fact,
some satellites are powered by a circuit whichconverts thermal energy
directly
into electrical energy. A battery chargesa Barium titanite capacitor, the
circuit is broken, and the capacitor isheated by the sun as the satellite
rotates. The e_r of the titanitedecreases and hence the voltage across the
capacitor increases. The batteryis then reconnected to the capacitor in
series
with a resistor and thecapacitor recharges the battery while supplying
energy to
the resistor. Thecapacitor is then cooled and the cycle is repeated!

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 26 05:31:59 1999
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From: tgrimes1@juno.com
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:23:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Barium Titanate to Solar Energy
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>BTW, Barium
>titanite has an e_r which has a non-linear response totemperature. I was
trying
>to use this property to convert solar energy intoelectrical energy. In
fact,
>some satellites are powered by a circuit whichconverts thermal energy
directly
>into electrical energy. A battery chargesa Barium titanite capacitor,
the
>circuit is broken, and the capacitor isheated by the sun as the
satellite
>rotates. The e_r of the titanitedecreases and hence the voltage across
the
>capacitor increases. The batteryis then reconnected to the capacitor in
series
>with a resistor and thecapacitor recharges the battery while supplying
energy to
>the resistor. Thecapacitor is then cooled and the cycle is repeated!

I think that a good way to alternately cool and heat the capacitor would
be to position a series of parallel reflecting strips above the capacitor
and put the setup in sunlight.  That way as the sun moves across the sky
bands of light separated by bands of shade will move across the
capacitor, thus heating and cooling the capacitor.

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 26 07:44:26 1999
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From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock)
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Howard Johnson's PermMag Motor]
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:36:56 -0400
Organization: is mostly via piles
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>> > See: http://www.newebmasters.com/freeenergy/4151431-pg1.html


Some other related links:
http://www.newebmasters.com/freeenergy/
http://home.earthlink.net/~wizzard9/
http://www.magneticenergy.com/

Can't say that any of the info works, but the pictures are
cool.


>----------start----------
>AZ Industries, 4000 Highway 62 #101, Hardy AR, 72542. Tel:
>870-856-3041 It has been confirmed by several who have
>visited their facility that this company does indeed still
>produce the curved magnets and other critical components
>needed to construct this motor. If you have any information
>relating to other sources for these magnets, E-mail
>freeenergy@newebmasters.com with your magnet vendor info.
>----------end-----------

AZ at one time also sold a "educational kit" to deminstrate
some of John Ecklin's ideas, tho they never did make the
motors.

-- 
For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at:
                   http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 26 09:39:07 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" 
To: 
Subject: Re: Barium Titanate to Solar Energy
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Hi,

Hmm,

Not a bad idea, actually it brings to mind another possibility.  Since these
C changes have a multiplying effect on the V, why not use a large set of
such caps and charge them with a lot of energy in the morning and then let
the C changes multiply this energy?
Put in a Megajoule in the morning and the C drops to half of its value and
you have two Megajoules.

On a slightly different tack, Jean-louis Naudin did some tests with me with
abrupt junction varactors, devices which can change the C by a factor of 20
times with a V bias. I think that such a device could go OU with the right
varactors. The ones that JL used only had a C variation of about 2, there
are some others that get up to 23 with the same sorts of low power bias (on
the order of 100 nW).

Take a look:

http://members.aol.com/overunity/html/paramp31.htm

Fred

>
>I think that a good way to alternately cool and heat the capacitor would
>be to position a series of parallel reflecting strips above the capacitor
>and put the setup in sunlight.  That way as the sun moves across the sky
>bands of light separated by bands of shade will move across the
>capacitor, thus heating and cooling the capacitor.
>


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 26 10:27:04 1999
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Message-ID: <37EE2D98.37FA@intergate.bc.ca>
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:28:40 -0400
From: Alik Shereshevsky 
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I just could not wait until April fool's day, so here it comes:

check out patent 5748088 issued to Afilani, as well the other
5-6 patents he has. Schematic diagram on page 6 of the above patent is
truly priceless. May be the fellow who wanted to shut down the USPTO at
the beginning of the century was just slightly ahead of his time....

Alik S.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 26 10:46:12 1999
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Subject: Re: Barium Titanate to Solar Energy
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Hi Fred and all,
At 09:31 AM 9/26/99 -0700, you wrote:

>On a slightly different tack, Jean-louis Naudin did some tests with me with
>abrupt junction varactors, devices which can change the C by a factor of 20
>times with a V bias. I think that such a device could go OU with the right
>varactors. The ones that JL used only had a C variation of about 2, there
>are some others that get up to 23 with the same sorts of low power bias (on
>the order of 100 nW).
>
>Take a look:
>
>http://members.aol.com/overunity/html/paramp31.htm
>
Did you or Jean-Louis revisit this circuit? The varactors have an
indeterminate DC bias, and might be foward biased at times. The first 2
oscilloscope photos show the output at the same frequency as the pump
input. Can you explain the operating difference from the later photo with
f/2 output? In my tests, I only found a weak 2*f output, but only had about
a 3:1 capacitance ratio. My varactors had a controlled negative DC bias as
well as a sine wave punp.
Thanks,
-Dave


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 26 11:18:56 1999
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From: Pepthewep@aol.com
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Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:17:52 EDT
Subject: Re: Barium Titanate to Solar Energy
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Hello, Fred,  Barb here.  Anything new to share?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 26 12:15:27 1999
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Bob Paddock wrote:

> >> > See: http://www.newebmasters.com/freeenergy/4151431-pg1.html
>
> Some other related links:
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~wizzard9/

>
> Can't say that any of the info works, but the pictures are
> cool.
>

That link above is a giggle..the guy wants $250,000,000.00 in funding! heh! It
looks to me like he's pissing into the wind. No diagrams, pics, no info about
the
motor at all, just a plea for assistance with funding, and the semi-sentient
promise
of a finder's fee..how noble!

 Another nail in the coffin of alternate energy!  I swear, a lack of
publication
AND basic human greed..coupled with too much egoic pride and a full-dose
of paranoia! Someone needs to contact this guy and drag him to our forum..
or not.

 We need a new protocol..this exact situation is what's been killing the
planet,
robbing us all blind at the 'pump', and keeping the zero-sum-game afloat.

 No more arguments over who-claimed-what..just WHAT WORKS..vs. The
Usual..and in the case of anything to do with the so-called Radiant Energy,
should
we take a moment to remember those that have passed before us without becoming
a commercial success?

Tesla, Keely, Moray, Hendershot, Hubbard... All died without
a penny, all failed to release enough information to replicate their works...

 Genius material..one and all! And this change in paradigm STILL hasnt
happened!
..all because they were too paranoid, didnt publish enough, were too greedy or
sold out..it's almost as if the Universe keeps sending us the plans and Mankind

keeps losing them!  Look at the history of nylon...it had to be invented 3
times
before it became a commercial success!

 The Future won't wait forever..

>
>
> AZ at one time also sold a "educational kit" to deminstrate
> some of John Ecklin's ideas, tho they never did make the
> motors.
>

 Here's hoping that there's something in their catalog about it.

-Erik

--------------4B36358C855B5049839E6CCE
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



 

Bob Paddock wrote:

>> > See: http://www.newebmasters.com/freeenergy/4151431-pg1.html

Some other related links:

http://home.earthlink.net/~wizzard9/



 

Can't say that any of the info works, but the pictures are

cool.

 

That link above is a giggle..the guy wants $250,000,000.00 in funding!
heh! It

looks to me like he's pissing into the wind. No diagrams, pics, no
info about the

motor at all, just a plea for assistance with funding, and the semi-sentient
promise

of a finder's fee..how noble!

 Another nail in the coffin of alternate energy!  I swear,
a lack of publication

AND basic human greed..coupled with too much egoic pride and a full-dose

of paranoia! Someone needs to contact this guy and drag him to our
forum..

or not.

 We need a new protocol..this exact situation is what's been killing
the planet,

robbing us all blind at the 'pump', and keeping the zero-sum-game afloat.

 No more arguments over who-claimed-what..just WHAT WORKS..vs.
The

Usual..and in the case of anything to do with the so-called Radiant
Energy, should

we take a moment to remember those that have passed before us without
becoming a commercial success?

Tesla, Keely, Moray, Hendershot, Hubbard...<and all the rest> All
died without

a penny, all failed to release enough information to replicate their
works...

 Genius material..one and all! And this change in paradigm STILL
hasnt happened!

..all because they were too paranoid, didnt publish enough, were too
greedy or

sold out..it's almost as if the Universe keeps sending us the plans
and Mankind

keeps losing them!  Look at the history of nylon...it had to be
invented 3 times

before it became a commercial success!

 The Future won't wait forever..

 

AZ at one time also sold a "educational kit" to deminstrate

some of John Ecklin's ideas, tho they never did make the

motors.

 

 Here's hoping that there's something in their catalog about it.

-Erik

--------------4B36358C855B5049839E6CCE--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 26 13:58:47 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" 
To: 
Subject: Re: Barium Titanate to Solar Energy
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:37:25 -0700
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Hello, Fred,  Barb here.  Anything new to share?
>
Not much :-)

Fred

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 26 14:24:46 1999
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From: Colin Quinney 
Subject: Re: funny patent
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At 10:28 AM 09/26/99 -0400, you wrote:
>I just could not wait until April fool's day, so here it comes:
>
>check out patent 5748088 issued to Afilani, as well the other
>5-6 patents he has. Schematic diagram on page 6 of the above patent is
>truly priceless. May be the fellow who wanted to shut down the USPTO at
>the beginning of the century was just slightly ahead of his time....
>
>Alik S.

Thanks Alik. You have provided some inner mirth  :-))

The ability to dielectrically polarize Ephemeral entities through
electrophoresis is today a well known phenomena in parapsychology circles
but was only first shown in the movie, "Ghost Busters". The problem with
keeping the entities trapped was that when they tended to escape, BOY were
they p*ssed!

Colin Quinney

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 26 16:54:10 1999
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Subject: Re: Barium Titanate to Solar Energy
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RATZ!!  Barb c.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 26 17:05:48 1999
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From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock)
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Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Alternator Testings
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:01:35 -0400
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>> if it will run it self once started, or a Calorimeter (Heat
>> based meter, some thing like the LT1088) shows more out than

>for the meter to do! I have no idea of how to show the true power input
>other than to rely on a flickering analogue needle measurement because of
>the rapid changes in impedance in the high frequency
>circuit.

A current probe and the LT1088 would work just fine. 
Depending on which circuit setup and amount of $ you can do
10 MHz or 50 MHz.   Analog Devices had come out a with a
type of power meter IC good to 2.5 GHz, tho it is more
intended for RF power measurements that what we are
discussing here.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 26 19:05:52 1999
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From: MKSBoysal@aol.com
Message-ID: <871029d4.25202ad7@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 22:05:11 EDT
Subject: quest for overunity
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<< Hi all,
Yesterday morning I woke up with some interesting thoughts about how to 
multiply electrical power. I have no idea how feasible this concept is, so 
please if you have any ideas or thoughts about this concept send forth. But 
most of all if this idea has some ground in theoretically speaking?

Here is the idea:
There is a high speed DeWalt router tool (basically it's an electric motor)
Specifications as follow: 
DW625                Amp Rating               Max. Power output           
Speed
(model number)  15.0 120 V AC/DC      3 (HP)                      22,000 RPM

So let us assume that we take this high speed construction tool and we attach 
to a 
10:1 Gear Box.  Wich 22,000 RPM which will be devided to 10 that is equal to 
2'200 out put RPM right? and so what about the Horse Power? Does it get 
multiplied by 10:1 ratio? like 10x3 HP = Which is equal to 30 HP is this how 
it works? 

I find it hard to believe in these numbers, so what would you think guys?

Please write your comments,

Mehmet Boysal.>>

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From: "Harvey Norris" 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Alternator Research
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In the begining of this job started 3 or 4 years ago ordinary car
alternators were dismantled and the diodes were taken out to provide 3
phases at 120 degrees. By combining two of the phases in series a higher
voltage output was obtained that still resembled a sine wave. I was told
this was not a good method because during part of the cycle the voltages
from each phase were opposing. The resultant sine wave is then made of two
components. I now understand, or think I understand that if all three inputs
were put in series there would be complete voltage cancellation and zero
conduction of amperage. In a preliminary study of delta and wye connections
in 3 phase it seems like one is connections in parallel and one in series.
Does anyone know enough to say if this is analogous, if I am correct, or if
there is actually any reason for cancelling voltages in a waveform to be
undesirable? To me it seems permissible, in fact the inbedded cancellation
voltages inherent in such a waveform might mean less of a voltage drop from
the source under heavy loads of high amperage. The concept is somewhat
scalar.

I think I am fairly safe to state that if one compares the standard diameter
of an alternator pulley compared to the pulley diameter of of the crankshaft
of an automobile engine and its average rpm in operation: one will find that
the alternator commonly functions in excess of 400 hz, irrespective of the
fact that these signals are later rectified to dc by diodes. This is
somewhat dumfounding in that as tesla noted the induction ac motor is
nothing more than a rotating transformer,and an alternator or more generally
a generator consists of the inverse idea, and both comprise steel sections
where the magnetic flux changes direction, and the change of this flux
determines the forces and also the heating of the metal segments. One does
not see a practicality in using a transformer at 400 hz, it would heat up
badly, then why is it practical to drive an alternator at these high rpm's?
The answer as I see it from burning one up at 800 hz is that of the voltage
regulator function. When I sent a full battery voltage to the field at 800
rpm the alternator got hot real quick and the varnish melted off the
windings in no time. I did not even get good power out. Thats when I decided
to get the biggest ones I could acquire, but they are built on a different
principle. Only the field poles rotate on those, the field windings are
stationary, with a consequence of more flux leakage, but less moving parts
to wear out.
(the larger bus alternators contain no slip rings or brushes)

The reason for the high frequencies used in alternators is that they are
inefficient to begin with, but with an automobile engine horsepower
producing a higher rpm as input this is of no concern. The modulation of the
input amperage to the field is trickled so that just enough electrical
output to recharge the battery and accessories is made. Thus its operation
into thousands of hertz may be possible, as long as it is not asked to
provide so much powere to cause the operation to overheat. With this thought
in mind I am thinking about the problems of sending the 360 hz from the
experimental bus alternators into step up or step down transformers. My
thinking is that if I use high  or overrated KVA transformers for the amount
of powere I intend to draw out, those transformers should not significantly
heat up, analogous to the alternator example. Any comments from the peanut
gallery? HDN





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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 26 20:26:10 1999
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Subject: Re: quest for overunity
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On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 22:05:11 EDT, MKSBoysal@aol.com wrote:

> << Hi all,
> Yesterday morning I woke up with some interesting thoughts about how to 
> multiply electrical power. I have no idea how feasible this concept is, so

> please if you have any ideas or thoughts about this concept send forth.
But 
> most of all if this idea has some ground in theoretically speaking?
> 
> Here is the idea:
> There is a high speed DeWalt router tool (basically it's an electric
motor)
> Specifications as follow: 
> DW625                Amp Rating               Max. Power output

> Speed
> (model number)  15.0 120 V AC/DC      3 (HP)                      22,000
RPM
> 
> So let us assume that we take this high speed construction tool and we
attach 
> to a 
> 10:1 Gear Box.  Wich 22,000 RPM which will be devided to 10 that is equal
to 
> 2'200 out put RPM right? and so what about the Horse Power? Does it get 
> multiplied by 10:1 ratio? like 10x3 HP = Which is equal to 30 HP is this
how 
> it works? 
No the torque gets multiplied, not the power input. Kind of a silly
question. The torque is effective applied force times distance of acting,
rather similar to simple physics lever examples. HDN
> I find it hard to believe in these numbers, so what would you think guys?
> 
> Please write your comments,
> 
> Mehmet Boysal.>>
> 





________________________________________________________________
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 26 21:18:45 1999
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Harvey Norris wrote:

> In the begining of this job started 3 or 4 years ago ordinary car
> alternators were dismantled and the diodes were taken out to provide 3
> phases at 120 degrees. By combining two of the phases in series a higher
> voltage output was obtained that still resembled a sine wave. I was told
> this was not a good method because during part of the cycle the voltages
> from each phase were opposing. The resultant sine wave is then made of two
> components. I now understand, or think I understand that if all three inputs
> were put in series there would be complete voltage cancellation and zero
> conduction of amperage. In a preliminary study of delta and wye connections
> in 3 phase it seems like one is connections in parallel and one in series.
> Does anyone know enough to say if this is analogous, if I am correct, or if
> there is actually any reason for cancelling voltages in a waveform to be
> undesirable?

Only for sake of efficiency, if you dont care about losing 33% of your energy
you've just generated as heat in the rotor windings, just go right ahead and
connect them in 'series'...;)

> To me it seems permissible, in fact the inbedded cancellation
> voltages inherent in such a waveform might mean less of a voltage drop from
> the source under heavy loads of high amperage. The concept is somewhat
> scalar.

 This sounds like pseudo science to me. And what the !@#$ does "scalar" have
to do with anything here?

>
>
> I think I am fairly safe to state that if one compares the standard diameter
> of an alternator pulley compared to the pulley diameter of of the crankshaft
> of an automobile engine and its average rpm in operation: one will find that
> the alternator commonly functions in excess of 400 hz, irrespective of the
> fact that these signals are later rectified to dc by diodes.

Yeah...so? Automotive alternators are nothing more than a more efficient means
of generating pulsed DC to recharge the battery, which is what they do.

> This is
> somewhat dumfounding in that as tesla noted the induction ac motor is
> nothing more than a rotating transformer,and an alternator or more generally
> a generator consists of the inverse idea, and both comprise steel sections
> where the magnetic flux changes direction, and the change of this flux
> determines the forces and also the heating of the metal segments.

Nope. Alternators have slip rings...the AC is then rectified to DC. The common
DC generator uses it's commutator to maintain DC only flow of current.

> One does
> not see a practicality in using a transformer at 400 hz, it would heat up
> badly, then why is it practical to drive an alternator at these high rpm's?

 Not if the "transformer" is designed for 400Hz operation! As for RPM, most
mechanical generators and alternators have practical limits for their operating
voltages and these are intrinsically tied to operating RPM.

>
> The answer as I see it from burning one up at 800 hz is that of the voltage
> regulator function. When I sent a full battery voltage to the field at 800
> rpm the alternator got hot real quick and the varnish melted off the
> windings in no time.

 That's due to field current saturation. You really need to read up on this
technology
before you start experimenting! The field windings look like a DEAD SHORT to
the battery! Of course they got hot! All the field needs is a modest expenditure
of
current to provide the stationary magnetic field.

> I did not even get good power out. Thats when I decided
> to get the biggest ones I could acquire, but they are built on a different
> principle. Only the field poles rotate on those, the field windings are
> stationary, with a consequence of more flux leakage, but less moving parts
> to wear out.
> (the larger bus alternators contain no slip rings or brushes)

 Yeah yeah..brushless design, it's really OLD HAT.

>
>
> The reason for the high frequencies used in alternators is that they are
> inefficient to begin with, but with an automobile engine horsepower
> producing a higher rpm as input this is of no concern.

No, sorry...the frequency is a result of the simple pole geometry and the RPM.

> The modulation of the
> input amperage to the field is trickled so that just enough electrical
> output to recharge the battery and accessories is made. Thus its operation
> into thousands of hertz may be possible, as long as it is not asked to
> provide so much powere to cause the operation to overheat.

Uhhh...1/2 right. If you want DC, it doesnt matter what the frequency is, as a
simple matter of fact, the higher the better. This is because the higher
frequencies
carry more power density.

> With this thought
> in mind I am thinking about the problems of sending the 360 hz from the
> experimental bus alternators into step up or step down transformers. My
> thinking is that if I use high  or overrated KVA transformers for the amount
> of powere I intend to draw out, those transformers should not significantly
> heat up,

Guess again~! If the transformers were designed to run with 60Hz current,
they'll
be as leaky as a sieve at 360Hz!

> analogous to the alternator example. Any comments from the peanut
> gallery? HDN

Yeah..PLEASE..go buy a copy of the Radio Amateur's Handbook! You're going
to have to DESIGN the transformers to run at 360 Hz..I'd guess that a medium
sized ferrite torid design would be best. Something about 3-4" in diameter.

-Erik
KB6LUY

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 26 21:26:30 1999
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From: DEADWATE@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 00:26:17 EDT
Subject: Re: Alternator Research
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The U.S. Military uses only 400hz  for the a.c. power on all aircraft.  The 
size of the transformers is greatly reduced and performance does not suffer 
due to the greater efficientcy of 400hz power.  A good example of this is in 
your computer power supply, which is a switching mode supply. Note the size 
of the transformers in it versus the amperage output.  Much smaller than in a 
linear supply.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 26 22:13:32 1999
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Hi Harvey and all,
At 08:15 PM 9/26/99 PDT, you wrote:

 The resultant sine wave is then made of two
>components. I now understand, or think I understand that if all three inputs
>were put in series there would be complete voltage cancellation and zero
>conduction of amperage. In a preliminary study of delta and wye connections
>in 3 phase it seems like one is connections in parallel and one in series.
>Does anyone know enough to say if this is analogous, if I am correct, or if
>there is actually any reason for cancelling voltages in a waveform to be
>undesirable? To me it seems permissible, in fact the inbedded cancellation
>voltages inherent in such a waveform might mean less of a voltage drop from
>the source under heavy loads of high amperage. The concept is somewhat
>scalar.

It is simple vector addition. Picture an equilateral triangle, move along
the 3 sides. V(0 degrees) +V(120 degrees) +V(240 degrees) = 0, which is
what the "delta connection" is. Summing 2 phases just gives you the +/-
third. 
Approx. diagram for Delta:
       *
 (240)* *(120)
     *   *
    *******
    (0 deg)
Star:
*
 *(120)
  *
   N******(0)
  *
 *(240)
*
>
 One does
>not see a practicality in using a transformer at 400 hz, it would heat up
>badly, then why is it practical to drive an alternator at these high rpm's?
>The answer as I see it from burning one up at 800 hz is that of the voltage
>regulator function. When I sent a full battery voltage to the field at 800
>rpm the alternator got hot real quick and the varnish melted off the
>windings in no time. 

Many power transformers are rated form 50 to >400 Hz. The reactance may
limit the current and power at higher frequencies, so they should not
overheat at 400Hz. High magnetization currents would be from operating a
400Hz transformer at a lower frequency, such as 50 or 60Hz. There may be
more hystersis loss at 400+ Hz, but this is "iron" loss, not in the copper.
Do you know the number of poles in your alternator? Frequency = rpm*(No.
poles)/60. The windings that the varnish melted off, were these the field
winding or the output windings?
(The field is DC, not AC, was it rated for the full 12 volts?). If it was
the output windings, what was the load connected? Remember fot rhe same
flux, the output voltage increases linearly with (sine wave) frequency as
the change of flux is what's important. 

>With this thought
>in mind I am thinking about the problems of sending the 360 hz from the
>experimental bus alternators into step up or step down transformers. My
>thinking is that if I use high  or overrated KVA transformers for the amount
>of powere I intend to draw out, those transformers should not significantly
>heat up, analogous to the alternator example. Any comments from the peanut
>gallery?
Yes :-)
 HDN
>
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 26 22:48:27 1999
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At 10:04 PM 09/26/1999, you wrote:
>Hi Harvey and all,
>At 08:15 PM 9/26/99 PDT, you wrote:
>
> The resultant sine wave is then made of two
>>components. I now understand, or think I understand that if all three inputs
>>were put in series there would be complete voltage cancellation and zero
>>conduction of amperage. In a preliminary study of delta and wye connections
>>in 3 phase it seems like one is connections in parallel and one in series.
>>Does anyone know enough to say if this is analogous, if I am correct, or if
>>there is actually any reason for cancelling voltages in a waveform to be
>>undesirable? To me it seems permissible, in fact the inbedded cancellation
>>voltages inherent in such a waveform might mean less of a voltage drop from
>>the source under heavy loads of high amperage. The concept is somewhat
>>scalar.
>
>It is simple vector addition. Picture an equilateral triangle, move along
>the 3 sides. V(0 degrees) +V(120 degrees) +V(240 degrees) = 0, which is
>what the "delta connection" is. Summing 2 phases just gives you the +/-
>third. 
>Approx. diagram for Delta:
>       *
> (240)* *(120)
>     *   *
>    *******
>    (0 deg)
>Star:
>*
> *(120)
>  *
>   N******(0)
>  *
> *(240)
>*
>>
> One does
>>not see a practicality in using a transformer at 400 hz, it would heat up
>>badly, then why is it practical to drive an alternator at these high rpm's?
>>The answer as I see it from burning one up at 800 hz is that of the voltage
>>regulator function. When I sent a full battery voltage to the field at 800
>>rpm the alternator got hot real quick and the varnish melted off the
>>windings in no time. 
>
>Many power transformers are rated form 50 to >400 Hz. The reactance may
>limit the current and power at higher frequencies, so they should not
>overheat at 400Hz. High magnetization currents would be from operating a
>400Hz transformer at a lower frequency, such as 50 or 60Hz. There may be
>more hystersis loss at 400+ Hz, but this is "iron" loss, not in the copper.
>Do you know the number of poles in your alternator? Frequency = rpm*(No.
>poles)/60. The windings that the varnish melted off, were these the field
>winding or the output windings?
>(The field is DC, not AC, was it rated for the full 12 volts?). If it was
>the output windings, what was the load connected? Remember fot rhe same
>flux, the output voltage increases linearly with (sine wave) frequency as
>the change of flux is what's important. 
>
>>With this thought
>>in mind I am thinking about the problems of sending the 360 hz from the
>>experimental bus alternators into step up or step down transformers. My
>>thinking is that if I use high  or overrated KVA transformers for the amount
>>of powere I intend to draw out, those transformers should not significantly
>>heat up, analogous to the alternator example. Any comments from the peanut
>>gallery?
>Yes :-)
> HDN
>>
>-Dave
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 26 23:32:35 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: quest for overunity
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:32:14 +1000
Organization: Improving
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On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 22:05:11 EDT, MKSBoysal@aol.com wrote:
[snip]
>So let us assume that we take this high speed construction tool and we attach 
>to a 
>10:1 Gear Box.  Wich 22,000 RPM which will be devided to 10 that is equal to 
>2'200 out put RPM right? and so what about the Horse Power? Does it get 
>multiplied by 10:1 ratio? like 10x3 HP = Which is equal to 30 HP is this how 
>it works? 
No, the hp stays the same. It's the torque or "twisting force" that
increases.
[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Sep 26 23:37:57 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: 833 hz tests
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Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:37:42 PDT
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I neglected to mention in the previous post some of the results of
attempting to resonate a 56 H coil with 833 hz from a modified car
alternator to produce AC.

I remember I had recorded this info in notes a long time ago and  a half an
hour of digging around in the book room produced this gem. It is dated
2-21-95 with a further conclusion on 3-5 95. I think this information is
very interesting in that it deals with how an inductor changes with
frequency. Sometimes a wide gap exists between what book knowledge teaches
us and the observed results. I was most perplexed on my observations and
entitled the entry;
Explanation of resonance failure at 833 hz.

I am paraphrasing these notes for convenience, or when proper make direct
quotes.
Having observed a frequency of 833 hz on oscilloscope from alternator and
connected to 1000 ohm 56 H coil a current of .4 ma is noted @ 40 volts
input.
NOTE: These readings were made with digital meters and errors due to freq
input are considered neglegible below 1000 hz, or this may be open to
question. 

In the notes I observe that since the frequency of 833 hz has increased 13.8
times to that of 60 hz by the linear equation X(L)=2(pi)fL where L = Henries
and X(L)= inductive reactance, that the measured inductive reactance should
then also increase 13.8 times that of the measurement obtained at 60 hz.
Because of the huge inductance of these coils there is no practical
difference between the inductive reactance X(L) which comprises 99.9% of the
figure arrived at by noting the impedance Z as the ohmic value arrived at in
calculation to impressed voltage. Thus at 60 hz the 56 henry impedance is
20,000 ohms, synonymous with X(L).
Also then the expected X(L) at 13.8 times the freq should be
13.8(20,000)=276,000 ohms.

However the recorded amperage reading which is the same  as that X(L) would
make being~=Z is only 100,000 ohms as indicated by the .4ma conduction at 40
volts from the alternator. In the notes I conclude that this changed value
might be due to the increased reaction of internal capacitance in the coil
at the higher frequency but this is only a guess. I think it is already
established that an inductor changes its L value with frequency, that is my
current opinion of those results, but let us look at that data. By the same
equation at 833 hz the inductor now appears to act as 19 Henries, so the
freq rose 13.8 times and L decreased to 1/3 of its former value. I did not
realize values could change so much under 1000 hz!
   To continue verbatim from notes...

We now assume if 100,000 ohms capacitive reactance is added to the coil in
series, it will series resonate and conduct 40 mA @40 v.(alternator input at
833 hz)
A water capacitor of 133,000 ohms capacitive reactance was used in a
preliminary test. Alone it conducts .3ma from the alternator. As previously
mentioned the coil conducted .4 ma. But in series connection the total
conduction is only .17 ma!

I am quite amused at some of the conclusions to explain this in my notes. I
first concluded that the inductive reactance must be acting as a capacitive
reactance instead at that frequency. Then a later revision concluded that
the other thing might be happening, the capacitive reactance must be acting
as a inductive reactance at that frequency.

Anyways these water capacitors were common ordinary plastic water pitchers
surrounded by aluminum foil with a copper pipe in the middle of the pitcher,
and those were the two insulated connections. This type of water capacitor
can fit inside the 56 H coil, but by the time I made that experiment and
remember that it was unworthy to even write down the meager amounts of
amperage consumption there in that example. I should have not let emotion
rule in the recording of results, for now these same water capacitor data is
come back to haunt me. 

Another late night post:
HDN signing off in Streetsboro Ohio




________________________________________________________________
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 00:38:20 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" 
To: eks1@earthlink.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Alternator Research?
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On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:18:18 -0700, eks1 wrote:
or if
> > there is actually any reason for cancelling voltages in a waveform to
be
> > undesirable?
> 
> Only for sake of efficiency, if you dont care about losing 33% of your
energy
> you've just generated as heat in the rotor windings, just go right ahead
and
> connect them in 'series'...;)
The only heat generated is from output current which does not occur if
voltage cancellation occurs. 33% less effective design, yes, generated heat
no.
> > To me it seems permissible, in fact the inbedded cancellation
> > voltages inherent in such a waveform might mean less of a voltage drop
from
> > the source under heavy loads of high amperage. The concept is somewhat
> > scalar.
> 
>  This sounds like pseudo science to me. And what the !@#$ does "scalar"
have
> to do with anything here?
> 
> >Havent you ever heard of exciting a resonant circuit with very little
input current?  Who is to say this "old hat" design cannot be used to
generate a signal of complete voltage cancellation  to another circuit that
is 360 hz resonant. To me it is concievable that no measured amperage can
excite another circuit between lines. Thats what scalar has to do with it.
You are the first to say to know about this alternator design from years ago
and the first to discount it. I would not be so hasty.The same
electromagnetic effect from this idea is shown at JL Naudin site under
scalar ideas.
> >
> > I think I am fairly safe to state that if one compares the standard
diameter
> > of an alternator pulley compared to the pulley diameter of of the
crankshaft
> > of an automobile engine and its average rpm in operation: one will find
that
> > the alternator commonly functions in excess of 400 hz, irrespective of
the
> > fact that these signals are later rectified to dc by diodes.
> 
> Yeah...so? Automotive alternators are nothing more than a more efficient
means
> of generating pulsed DC to recharge the battery, which is what they do.
> 
> > This is
> > somewhat dumfounding in that as tesla noted the induction ac motor is
> > nothing more than a rotating transformer,and an alternator or more
generally
> > a generator consists of the inverse idea, and both comprise steel
sections
> > where the magnetic flux changes direction, and the change of this flux
> > determines the forces and also the heating of the metal segments.
> 
> Nope. Alternators have slip rings...the AC is then rectified to DC. The
common
> DC generator uses it's commutator to maintain DC only flow of current.
Nope, I do smoke it But I am not a Dope. You have not read my past posts and
probably do not understand what you call a old hat. I paid 600 US currency
to Magnetek< Akron, Ohio for a special job of removing the diodes and making
special arc weld work to disconnect delta or star winding formation to
provide three separate phases on each alternator. Of course everyone
verstehen that alternator produces DC, I had these converted back to
original purpose of supplying AC. Additionally you may have no comprehension
of this but the design is old and unique, the only moving part is the poles
that look like intertwined fingers around the field coils, The field coils
DO NOT MOVE AS IN ORDINARY DESIGN.
> > One does
> > not see a practicality in using a transformer at 400 hz, it would heat
up
> > badly, then why is it practical to drive an alternator at these high
rpm's?
> 
>  Not if the "transformer" is designed for 400Hz operation! As for RPM,
most
> mechanical generators and alternators have practical limits for their
operating
> voltages and these are intrinsically tied to operating RPM.
> 
> >
> > The answer as I see it from burning one up at 800 hz is that of the
voltage
> > regulator function. When I sent a full battery voltage to the field at
800
> > rpm the alternator got hot real quick and the varnish melted off the
> > windings in no time.
> 
 
> > I did not even get good power out. Thats when I decided
> > to get the biggest ones I could acquire, but they are built on a
different
> > principle. Only the field poles rotate on those, the field windings are
> > stationary, with a consequence of more flux leakage, but less moving
parts
> > to wear out.
> > (the larger bus alternators contain no slip rings or brushes)
> 
>  Yeah yeah..brushless design, it's really OLD HAT.
If it was old hat, why do you say in previous reply that all alternators
must have slip rings and commutation? I hate to say that mine are functional
and do not use them. It is hard to argue with the truth when it is real.
> >
> >
> > The reason for the high frequencies used in alternators is that they
are
> > inefficient to begin with, but with an automobile engine horsepower
> > producing a higher rpm as input this is of no concern.
 You misunderstood the context of what I was saying. 
> No, sorry...the frequency is a result of the simple pole geometry and the
RPM.
> 
> > The modulation of the
> > input amperage to the field is trickled so that just enough electrical
> > output to recharge the battery and accessories is made. Thus its
operation
> > into thousands of hertz may be possible, as long as it is not asked to
> > provide so much powere to cause the operation to overheat.
> 
> Uhhh...1/2 right. If you want DC, it doesnt matter what the frequency is,
as a
> simple matter of fact, the higher the better. This is because the higher
> frequencies
> carry more power density.
I dont want DC, thats why they were changed.
That may be true about power density but what about adverse heating from
rapid flux change at these higher frequencies? In attempting to fathom this
I deduced that reduced amperage output would create less heat and higher
flux change than becomes acceptable in power conversion.
> > With this thought
> > in mind I am thinking about the problems of sending the 360 hz from the
> > experimental bus alternators into step up or step down transformers. My
> > thinking is that if I use high  or overrated KVA transformers for the
amount
> > of powere I intend to draw out, those transformers should not
significantly
> > heat up,
> 
> Guess again~! If the transformers were designed to run with 60Hz current,
> they'll
> be as leaky as a sieve at 360Hz!
> 

> Yeah..PLEASE..go buy a copy of the Radio Amateur's Handbook! You're going
> to have to DESIGN the transformers to run at 360 Hz..I'd guess that a
medium
> sized ferrite torid design would be best. Something about 3-4" in
diameter.
Yes thanks for this advise, the first sensible response I have seen, I saw
three phase torroidal transformers at Cleveland Ohio ESI warehouse sale for
225 dollars, he says he has these advertised on the internet. I guess I
bought the wrong kind, but will try them anyways. HDN






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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 00:45:07 1999
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From: Trevmaniac@aol.com
Message-ID: 
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 03:44:59 EDT
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Howard Johnson's PermMag Motor]
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I tried building a Howard Johnson type linear motor about 6 months ago.  

I created a curved magnet as follows:

I stacked a bunch of 16 'latch' magnets together.  The magnet dimensions were 
 1" x .75" x .25" with the N and S poles on the largest faces.

I took small pieces of cardboard (about 1" x .5") and wedged a piece between 
each magnet on ONE side of the stack only.  Thus creating a curved assembly.

I mounted the magnet assembly on a trolly on rails above a magnetic track.  I 
built the magnetic track using hacksaw blades (two across) for the steel 
base; and a stack of three latch magnets for each magnetic pole.

RESULTS:
I placed the trolly at one end of the track.  It accelerated sharply and then 
coasted the rest of the way.  It met with magnetic braking at the other end 
of the track and it did not have enough momentum to travel beyond the end 
magnet.  I tried all kinds of adjustments to magnet curvature, magnet height 
above track, track pole interval.  All to no avail.  No change in performance.

I also tried to start the trolly from a mid-point on the track.  Nothing at 
all.

Granted, I did not have pointed ends on my curved magnet.  Nor did I spend 
$1800.

If the patent office was duped by local acceleration at the START of the 
track, they are a lot more stupid that I thought.  Or did Jonhson's model 
accelerate the entire length of his track?

Trevor Sleath

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 00:56:00 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Alternator Research
Message-Id: <938418952.12357.809@excite.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 00:55:52 PDT
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On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 22:04:06, Dave Dameron wrote:

> Hi Harvey and all,
> At 08:15 PM 9/26/99 PDT, you wrote:
> 

> Many power transformers are rated form 50 to >400 Hz. The reactance may
> limit the current and power at higher frequencies, so they should not
> overheat at 400Hz. High magnetization currents would be from operating a
> 400Hz transformer at a lower frequency, such as 50 or 60Hz. There may be
> more hystersis loss at 400+ Hz, but this is "iron" loss, not in the
copper.
> Do you know the number of poles in your alternator? Frequency = rpm*(No.
> poles)/60.
There are 12 field poles at rpm 3600 producing 360 hz.
 The windings that the varnish melted off, were these the field
> winding or the output windings?
I described two different examples, in the car alternators described in 833
hz case this may have been output, I do not remember, that was in 95.
> (The field is DC, not AC, was it rated for the full 12 volts?). If it was
> the output windings, what was the load connected? 
The alternator loads are described in 833 hz post. They did not immediately
burn up, but after repeated tests. However the whole alternator got very hot
from sending too much field, or maybe internal shorts developed, this was a
long time ago, not worthy of further discussion.
HDN




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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 03:02:51 1999
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"Jerry W. Decker" schrieb:
> 
> Hi Folks!
> 
> I don't mean to go on and on about Dennis Lee, but the man is a fraud
> and the more proof we can get and pass around, the sooner he'll fade
> away and let us get back to the slim reality of what WORKS and what
> DOESN'T.
> 

> 
> http://keelynet.com/interact/archive/00001165.htm
> 

Thanks for the info.
I have included the link to:

http://www.overunity.com/update.htm

Regards, Stefan.

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 03:46:23 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Gyromagnetic Ratio
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Some time ago there was a discussion about when a cylindrical magnet with
its poles at the ends of the cylinder is rotated on its cylindrical axis do
the field lines move with the rotation of the cylinder? I expressed an
opinion that they do not,which it appears they may do so and my opinion was
wrong. More properly the field lines exhibit a quality of inertia and it is
the change in velocity or second derivative  acceleration that produces the
scientific observation deduced in Einstein-Dehaas? experiments. Boy that
Einstein got around, didnt he?  And everyone wants to discredit him these
days.I dont even know if I got the second name right. He must be Belgian,
Anyways others did this experiment also in different forms,but what was done
was to spin the magnetic cylinder and stop it suddenly. The field lines
would keep moving exhibiting magnetic inertia, which was deduced that a
gyroscopic action from a rotating ferromagnetic electron spin was
responsible. The acceleration of spin produces a gyroscopic reaction that
resists the spin, but once the spin is established the field lines should
rotate with the cylinder. I dont know if this is true but Fred Epps once
pointed out the subtle deceptions between velocity and acceleration and I
wonder if he could comment about whether what I have said is true.
   To get to the point of this post I wish everyone to understand that the
alternators I have described in my posts use this same principle to move
flux around a DC electromagnet known as a field coil. It is not exactly the
same principle but what happens is this: the field poles are free to rotate
around the electromagnetic cylinder with poles at the end as previously
described, and in this instance is the field coil. To anyone unfamiliar with
these pieces they look like two hands with the fingers between each other.
In between the fingers the N and S poles spread their field lines out in air
as a path of low reluctance or magnetic resistance. It is this leakage flux
that finds another path of low reluctance in the steel segments between the
output windings on another assembly on the outside of the rotating field
poles. That assembly is stationary and so is the field coil. The only thing
that revolves is the field poles. When they revolve around the field coil
what connects the two sets of magnetic fingers together to rotate as a
common piece is a welded brass connection of higher reluctance than the air
gaps between the fingers. This is how it is possible to have an alternator
without slip rings and brushes because the field coil does not have to
rotate with the field poles as is done on a conventional alternator design.

This then again does not mean that the rotating field poles are grabbing and
rotating field lines from the magnet as was remotely considered in the first
example. Rather they are only a rotating path of least reluctance.
Nevertheless the function serves the purpose of introducing flux change
across the steel segments internal to the field output windings< thus
producing a novel approach to electrical generation.

This was also mentioned as an "old hat" approach by another on the list and
implied that there was nothing new under the sun but this commentator may
not have realized the extenuating circumstances involved with this design.

To begin with the normal lenz law considerations are a little bit unusual
with this design. A magnetic drag normally associated with lenz law
consideration when drawing power output, is present even when no output is
taken. This is easy to understand that it takes energy to move steel at
right angles to field lines, thus it takes energy to reroute reluctance
paths around a field coil also. Another consideration on the other end of
the spectrum is if the output windings are shorted out
on a conventional design this dictates that the lenz law will immediately
create an immense drag on the mechanical force propelling the generator and
the output windings may not withstand the induced amperage because of their
relative resistance. But the output windings on this model are less than 1
ohm and when I accidentally shorted a phase during a voltage  measurement it
did not significantly load down the mechanical energy input. 

With this kind of alternator it bypasses some ordinary lenz law
considerations. While it may be true that a conventional alternator may
produce extra heating  by combining two 120 phases in series as eksl
indicates, and I disagree on that point, but here is an example where this
should be possible without deleterious effects. 
A wild eyed statement might be something like:
It may even be speculated that one kind of alternator will give a lenz law
drag when all three phases are shorted in series in voltage cancellation and
perhaps this other kind will not.
I think that stuff gets too confusing because lenz law is a magnetic
interaction, if no amperage flows in the induced circuit,there is no lenz
law. I could easily prove this by measuring the amperage of the 5hp 220 volt
motor running the 3450 rpm to the alternators. I could then short out the 3
phases in series and see what the amperage input to the motor does.
But I dont think I am ready for a dangerous experiment like that!  HDN





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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 06:11:49 1999
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Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:11:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: Zack Widup 
Subject: Re: quest for overunity
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On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 MKSBoysal@aol.com wrote:

> << Hi all,
> Yesterday morning I woke up with some interesting thoughts about how to 
> multiply electrical power. I have no idea how feasible this concept is, so 
> please if you have any ideas or thoughts about this concept send forth. But 
> most of all if this idea has some ground in theoretically speaking?
> 
> Here is the idea:
> There is a high speed DeWalt router tool (basically it's an electric motor)
> Specifications as follow: 
> DW625                Amp Rating               Max. Power output           
> Speed
> (model number)  15.0 120 V AC/DC      3 (HP)                      22,000 RPM
> 
> So let us assume that we take this high speed construction tool and we attach 
> to a 
> 10:1 Gear Box.  Wich 22,000 RPM which will be devided to 10 that is equal to 
> 2'200 out put RPM right? and so what about the Horse Power? Does it get 
> multiplied by 10:1 ratio? like 10x3 HP = Which is equal to 30 HP is this how 
> it works? 
> 
> I find it hard to believe in these numbers, so what would you think guys?
> 
> Please write your comments,
> 
> Mehmet Boysal.>>
> 

The HP would stay the same, actually a little would be lost in the gear 
box.  In this case, TANSTAAFL!

Zack


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 07:14:05 1999
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From: William Beaty 
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Subject: Re: "Levitron" maglev device
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On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Gerald Zani wrote:

> Bill, Tappers,
> 
> The projo about the Levitron article is very good.  I have it posted on my
> bulletin board.  If you try to go to the web sites that Bill pointed to you
> will have trouble.  So I copied the articles and posted them at:

The author just contacted me to say that Projo takes articles off after
one week.  He gives permission to put it on WWW, so it now can be found
at: 

http://www.amasci.com/maglev/levtr1.html

I've also added an old letter to the Sherloks (the ones who maintained the
evidence of the theft on levitron.com until Hone's got the courts to shut
them down.)

http://www.amasci.com/maglev/levbill1.html (also below.)


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L



                     THE "PATHOLOGICAL DISHONESTY" DISEASE
                                       
   To the Sherloks
   In reading the lastest LEVITRON "Expose" update on www.levitron.com, I
   suddenly realized that something seemed extremely familiar about the
   whole situation. About five years ago I went through the breakup of a
   small company. See if the following story strikes any chords with you.
   
   During some financial rough times, one partner in our little design
   company attacked another, and threatened to quit if the second partner
   was not ejected. As discussion ensued and threats and counterthreats
   were made over the following weeks, very strange things started to
   happen. As the group continued to discuss ongoing events, I started to
   feel as if there was something wrong with my mind, because some of the
   events that the group was discussing had never occurred. Other events
   that the people discussed were totally different than I remembered
   them. I began questioning peoples' memory during meetings, and I found
   that the rest of the group maintained a solid concensus agreement
   about several past events which were very different than my own
   recollections. Also, several real events which I remembered quite
   clearly were denied by the group as having never occurred.
   
   Fortunately I spent enough time away from the group that I could
   maintain a small amount of perspective, and I gave a great deal of
   thought to these strange memory mismatches. At first I suspected that
   this was the infamous "Rashomon" effect (from the Kurosawa movie where
   an identical event is shown from the perspective of several different
   people.) Some of the problem did come from this; from the fact that
   different people emphasize some events while forgetting others.
   However, I began to notice that something else was happening. Two of
   the partners were lying. They were lying quite openly, and about all
   sorts of minor things. The lies were small enough that I never would
   have noticed them ordinarily. To see them I had to be intentionally
   looking for them. As they discussed things over time, their stories
   slowly changed in obvious ways, and always so as to make themselves
   appear to be the "good guys," and so their opponents appeared to be
   evil. Long friendships were conveniently misremembered as hostile
   rivalry, and some recent major changes in attitudes were discussed as
   if they had always been the norm.
   
   The business partners were "rewriting history" as they desired, with
   little regard for truth. And strangest of all, they obviously were not
   doing this intentionally. The process took the form of a constant sort
   of "negative gossip", where the gossip was somewhat nasty, and over
   many days they would come to believe their own speculations as being
   actual events. The "solidified gossip" was then extended with even
   more subtly dishonest information, so the "warping of reality" built
   up more and more over time. I found that the overall effect was very
   hard to fight, and on several occasions I felt weird and confused, and
   had to sit down and try to sort out my original viewpoint from the
   subtly twisted viewpoints I had unknowingly taken on while working in
   the group.
   
   When I confronted them about some of the differences in our memories
   of ongoing (not past) events, they invariably attacked MY perception
   of events as being faulty. They usually added lots of emphasis on the
   fact that I had no proof that my version was right and theirs was
   wrong, and put much emphasis on the idea that all of reality is just a
   matter of opinion. (But although truth may be subjective, one thing in
   reality is real: intentional lying!) They had no self-doubts at all,
   and their defenses were impenetrable, which I found to be extremely
   unsettling. And so I started keeping written records of all the
   ongoing events, and began making tape recordings of company meetings.
   I did not trust my OWN memories, so I came to rely upon these records
   whenever arguments about the facts of the case came up.
   
   The whole upheaval took months. Time after time I found great
   mismatches in what the group believed and what had actually happened.
   Sometimes the partners would completely change their stories, and then
   insist that their stories had always been that way. They would accuse
   others of nasty acts that THEY THEMSELVES had actually performed. I
   kept exposing the differences and trying to force the group to keep
   honest contact with reality as best as I could, but they absolutely
   hated my "disgusting" truth telling and tape recorders, and it was a
   losing battle. I eventually got out of the whole toxic situation.
   
   After years had passed and I gained lots more perspective, I could
   clearly see the operation of a stunning human foible which I had never
   encountered earlier in my life: some people maintain a positive
   self-image by a habit of lying to themselves. The lies are small but
   constant, and their cumulative effect allows that person to carry out
   some fairly nasty and spiteful acts without knowning that they are
   doing so. They they either forget about them entirely, or they put a
   "spin" on them so they appear correct and righteous. "Convenient
   Disremembering" rules their lives. They constantly rewrite history to
   make themselves look good, and they view themselves as good people,
   even though their actions are very different from those of a good
   person. When someone should confront them with clear evidence of the
   original version of events, or if someone even *questions* their
   version, they burst out in rage. They deeply hate tape recorders and
   camcorders, but they are unable to give a coherent reason why this is
   so. (The reason is obvious, but they don't know that!)
   
   Overall, the dishonest reality-warp phenomenon is a very scary thing
   to be near. I see that it is the main force that produces Cult-think.
   I can easily see how the Nazis could kill millions of civilians during
   WWII, and the German people go along with it, all the while thinking
   that they were in the right. I can see how abusive parents can beat
   children to death, all the while believing that it's the child's
   fault. It's simply a matter of being slightly but constantly
   dishonest, of bad-mouthing the truth so that it vanishes, of coming up
   with warped justifications for your actions, and then learning to be
   blind to the warpings. It's simply a matter of telling small lies and
   then believing them, so that they turn invisible, and can form a new
   level of "truth" on which more subtle lies are again added, until your
   system of beliefs slowly twists into something that would shock an
   outside observer.
   
   What's all this leading to? It looks to me like Hones has this "lying
   disease". If so, then he is not consciously stealing Harrigan's work.
   He may REALLY BELIEVE that he is in the right, and so he explains your
   attack as being motivated by your jealousy, self-righteousness, evil,
   etc. (But why would a fellow Levitron-seller abandon a good business
   and start exposing Hones' misdeeds? How can he explain it?) He is
   unable to see his actions in anything but a good (but false) light.
   If he is indulging in this "reality warping" stuff, then whenever you
   defeat some part of his case, he will not back down, because for him
   history conveniently changes so that the defeat never occurred. This
   makes him a formidable opponent because he might never surrender.
   Also, he can tell enormous lies with a clear conscience, and people
   will believe his side of the story without a second thought, since his
   attitude and body-language is that of a truth teller.
   
   My advice on how to fight this stuff matches what you are already
   doing: be utterly honest, and expose both YOUR OWN actions and Hones'
   actions to as much publicity as possible. Assume that Hones is
   slightly dangerous: he is fighting to defend his image of himself as a
   good person, and consequentially you threaten him at a very deep
   level. He may talk himself into seeing a need to commit acts of
   violence. In addition, people with the "lie disease" are extremely
   vengeful. They will remember even small personal slights for the rest
   of their lives. On the positive side: from what I've seen of the legal
   world, the people there are aware of these "snake" types of
   personality, and probably won't be easily taken in by Hones as are the
   people surrounding him.
   
   Well, best of luck in the battle. If you want to look up an
   interesting book, track down Scott M. Peck's book "THE PEOPLE OF THE
   LIE," ISBN:0684848597 It's by a psychologist who noticed that a
   portion of his patients shared a certain trait: extreme
   self-protective and self-centered dishonesty; what the outside world
   labels as "evil."



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 07:36:02 1999
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Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:35:02 +0300
From: "Alexander V. Frolov" 
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Several years ago I published messages here about possible way for stable
levitron magnet position (it is tetrahedronal based system of 4 permanent
magnets) and I remember the discussion with Scott Little, who tried to prove "how
it can not be true".

Really it is not so important to argue, I think.

Alexander V. Frolov
--------

William Beaty wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Gerald Zani wrote:
>
> > Bill, Tappers,
> >
> > The projo about the Levitron article is very good.  I have it posted on my
> > bulletin board.  If you try to go to the web sites that Bill pointed to you
> > will have trouble.  So I copied the articles and posted them at:
>
> The author just contacted me to say that Projo takes articles off after
> one week.  He gives permission to put it on WWW, so it now can be found
> at:
>
> http://www.amasci.com/maglev/levtr1.html
>
> I've also added an old letter to the Sherloks (the ones who maintained the
> evidence of the theft on levitron.com until Hone's got the courts to shut
> them down.)
>
> http://www.amasci.com/maglev/levbill1.html (also below.)
>
> ((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
> William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
> billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
> EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
> Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L
>
>                      THE "PATHOLOGICAL DISHONESTY" DISEASE
>
>    To the Sherloks
>    In reading the lastest LEVITRON "Expose" update on www.levitron.com, I
>    suddenly realized that something seemed extremely familiar about the
>    whole situation. About five years ago I went through the breakup of a
>    small company. See if the following story strikes any chords with you.
>
>    During some financial rough times, one partner in our little design
>    company attacked another, and threatened to quit if the second partner
>    was not ejected. As discussion ensued and threats and counterthreats
>    were made over the following weeks, very strange things started to
>    happen. As the group continued to discuss ongoing events, I started to
>    feel as if there was something wrong with my mind, because some of the
>    events that the group was discussing had never occurred. Other events
>    that the people discussed were totally different than I remembered
>    them. I began questioning peoples' memory during meetings, and I found
>    that the rest of the group maintained a solid concensus agreement
>    about several past events which were very different than my own
>    recollections. Also, several real events which I remembered quite
>    clearly were denied by the group as having never occurred.
>
>    Fortunately I spent enough time away from the group that I could
>    maintain a small amount of perspective, and I gave a great deal of
>    thought to these strange memory mismatches. At first I suspected that
>    this was the infamous "Rashomon" effect (from the Kurosawa movie where
>    an identical event is shown from the perspective of several different
>    people.) Some of the problem did come from this; from the fact that
>    different people emphasize some events while forgetting others.
>    However, I began to notice that something else was happening. Two of
>    the partners were lying. They were lying quite openly, and about all
>    sorts of minor things. The lies were small enough that I never would
>    have noticed them ordinarily. To see them I had to be intentionally
>    looking for them. As they discussed things over time, their stories
>    slowly changed in obvious ways, and always so as to make themselves
>    appear to be the "good guys," and so their opponents appeared to be
>    evil. Long friendships were conveniently misremembered as hostile
>    rivalry, and some recent major changes in attitudes were discussed as
>    if they had always been the norm.
>
>    The business partners were "rewriting history" as they desired, with
>    little regard for truth. And strangest of all, they obviously were not
>    doing this intentionally. The process took the form of a constant sort
>    of "negative gossip", where the gossip was somewhat nasty, and over
>    many days they would come to believe their own speculations as being
>    actual events. The "solidified gossip" was then extended with even
>    more subtly dishonest information, so the "warping of reality" built
>    up more and more over time. I found that the overall effect was very
>    hard to fight, and on several occasions I felt weird and confused, and
>    had to sit down and try to sort out my original viewpoint from the
>    subtly twisted viewpoints I had unknowingly taken on while working in
>    the group.
>
>    When I confronted them about some of the differences in our memories
>    of ongoing (not past) events, they invariably attacked MY perception
>    of events as being faulty. They usually added lots of emphasis on the
>    fact that I had no proof that my version was right and theirs was
>    wrong, and put much emphasis on the idea that all of reality is just a
>    matter of opinion. (But although truth may be subjective, one thing in
>    reality is real: intentional lying!) They had no self-doubts at all,
>    and their defenses were impenetrable, which I found to be extremely
>    unsettling. And so I started keeping written records of all the
>    ongoing events, and began making tape recordings of company meetings.
>    I did not trust my OWN memories, so I came to rely upon these records
>    whenever arguments about the facts of the case came up.
>
>    The whole upheaval took months. Time after time I found great
>    mismatches in what the group believed and what had actually happened.
>    Sometimes the partners would completely change their stories, and then
>    insist that their stories had always been that way. They would accuse
>    others of nasty acts that THEY THEMSELVES had actually performed. I
>    kept exposing the differences and trying to force the group to keep
>    honest contact with reality as best as I could, but they absolutely
>    hated my "disgusting" truth telling and tape recorders, and it was a
>    losing battle. I eventually got out of the whole toxic situation.
>
>    After years had passed and I gained lots more perspective, I could
>    clearly see the operation of a stunning human foible which I had never
>    encountered earlier in my life: some people maintain a positive
>    self-image by a habit of lying to themselves. The lies are small but
>    constant, and their cumulative effect allows that person to carry out
>    some fairly nasty and spiteful acts without knowning that they are
>    doing so. They they either forget about them entirely, or they put a
>    "spin" on them so they appear correct and righteous. "Convenient
>    Disremembering" rules their lives. They constantly rewrite history to
>    make themselves look good, and they view themselves as good people,
>    even though their actions are very different from those of a good
>    person. When someone should confront them with clear evidence of the
>    original version of events, or if someone even *questions* their
>    version, they burst out in rage. They deeply hate tape recorders and
>    camcorders, but they are unable to give a coherent reason why this is
>    so. (The reason is obvious, but they don't know that!)
>
>    Overall, the dishonest reality-warp phenomenon is a very scary thing
>    to be near. I see that it is the main force that produces Cult-think.
>    I can easily see how the Nazis could kill millions of civilians during
>    WWII, and the German people go along with it, all the while thinking
>    that they were in the right. I can see how abusive parents can beat
>    children to death, all the while believing that it's the child's
>    fault. It's simply a matter of being slightly but constantly
>    dishonest, of bad-mouthing the truth so that it vanishes, of coming up
>    with warped justifications for your actions, and then learning to be
>    blind to the warpings. It's simply a matter of telling small lies and
>    then believing them, so that they turn invisible, and can form a new
>    level of "truth" on which more subtle lies are again added, until your
>    system of beliefs slowly twists into something that would shock an
>    outside observer.
>
>    What's all this leading to? It looks to me like Hones has this "lying
>    disease". If so, then he is not consciously stealing Harrigan's work.
>    He may REALLY BELIEVE that he is in the right, and so he explains your
>    attack as being motivated by your jealousy, self-righteousness, evil,
>    etc. (But why would a fellow Levitron-seller abandon a good business
>    and start exposing Hones' misdeeds? How can he explain it?) He is
>    unable to see his actions in anything but a good (but false) light.
>    If he is indulging in this "reality warping" stuff, then whenever you
>    defeat some part of his case, he will not back down, because for him
>    history conveniently changes so that the defeat never occurred. This
>    makes him a formidable opponent because he might never surrender.
>    Also, he can tell enormous lies with a clear conscience, and people
>    will believe his side of the story without a second thought, since his
>    attitude and body-language is that of a truth teller.
>
>    My advice on how to fight this stuff matches what you are already
>    doing: be utterly honest, and expose both YOUR OWN actions and Hones'
>    actions to as much publicity as possible. Assume that Hones is
>    slightly dangerous: he is fighting to defend his image of himself as a
>    good person, and consequentially you threaten him at a very deep
>    level. He may talk himself into seeing a need to commit acts of
>    violence. In addition, people with the "lie disease" are extremely
>    vengeful. They will remember even small personal slights for the rest
>    of their lives. On the positive side: from what I've seen of the legal
>    world, the people there are aware of these "snake" types of
>    personality, and probably won't be easily taken in by Hones as are the
>    people surrounding him.
>
>    Well, best of luck in the battle. If you want to look up an
>    interesting book, track down Scott M. Peck's book "THE PEOPLE OF THE
>    LIE," ISBN:0684848597 It's by a psychologist who noticed that a
>    portion of his patients shared a certain trait: extreme
>    self-protective and self-centered dishonesty; what the outside world
>    labels as "evil."



--
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
ICQ 43757451


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 08:42:47 1999
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Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 03:41:05 +1200
From: John Berry 
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References: <002f01bf083c$98718660$52b6bfd1@w7o9k8> <3.0.5.32.19990926172848.01228b30@inforamp.net>
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laughing...
How did he get that one through?

Colin Quinney wrote:

> At 10:28 AM 09/26/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >I just could not wait until April fool's day, so here it comes:
> >
> >check out patent 5748088 issued to Afilani, as well the other
> >5-6 patents he has. Schematic diagram on page 6 of the above patent is
> >truly priceless. May be the fellow who wanted to shut down the USPTO at
> >the beginning of the century was just slightly ahead of his time....
> >
> >Alik S.
>
> Thanks Alik. You have provided some inner mirth  :-))
>
> The ability to dielectrically polarize Ephemeral entities through
> electrophoresis is today a well known phenomena in parapsychology circles
> but was only first shown in the movie, "Ghost Busters". The problem with
> keeping the entities trapped was that when they tended to escape, BOY were
> they p*ssed!
>
> Colin Quinney

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 08:44:46 1999
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From: John Berry 
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I love the abstract, laughing real hard.

Colin Quinney wrote:

> At 10:28 AM 09/26/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >I just could not wait until April fool's day, so here it comes:
> >
> >check out patent 5748088 issued to Afilani, as well the other
> >5-6 patents he has. Schematic diagram on page 6 of the above patent is
> >truly priceless. May be the fellow who wanted to shut down the USPTO at
> >the beginning of the century was just slightly ahead of his time....
> >
> >Alik S.
>
> Thanks Alik. You have provided some inner mirth  :-))
>
> The ability to dielectrically polarize Ephemeral entities through
> electrophoresis is today a well known phenomena in parapsychology circles
> but was only first shown in the movie, "Ghost Busters". The problem with
> keeping the entities trapped was that when they tended to escape, BOY were
> they p*ssed!
>
> Colin Quinney

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 09:02:12 1999
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From: C2hoe@cs.com
Message-ID: <2d3d89c7.2520eef2@cs.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:01:54 EDT
Subject: Hydrino Power generation website with diagram!
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Hi all!
look at this:
http://ourworld.cs.com/clhoereth/hydr.html
Please tell your friends about this.
Have a good day!
Claudia

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 09:53:45 1999
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Message-ID: <37EF7747.3CF9@intergate.bc.ca>
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:55:19 -0400
From: Alik Shereshevsky 
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John Berry wrote:
> 
> laughing...
> How did he get that one through?
> 
He did not just get it through the USPTO. He also managed to sell these
things to government agencies inspite of Sandia tests showing the thing
to be a scam. I originally found this guy as an exhibitor at the US Army
gadget show in D.C.

Now if the rest of us knew what he knows we might get our 
gadgets funded ....... 

Alik S.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 10:31:03 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Message-ID: 
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:30:34 EDT
Subject:  The "Repulsin" from Schauberger, an E.A.D. device ?...
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Dear All,

Today, I have updated my web site.

If you are interested by the "Repulsin" flying saucer from Viktor Schauberger 
you may find some interesting informations at :
http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/repulsin.htm

I have also added some explanations and a video about the Coanda Effect at :
http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/coanda.htm

Best Regards
Jean-Louis Naudin
Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 10:34:57 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" 
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Subject: OFF TOPIC: Psychopaths was "Levitron" 
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:28:42 -0700
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Hi Bill and all,

This was an interesting article, and illustrated a thesis I've held for a
long time: that a small percentage of the population of Earth are
psychopaths, and that this relatively small group are responsible, either
directly or indirectly, for most of the problems we have here. I estimate
this at about 1-3 percent.
I believe these people are born psychopaths and cannot be changed into
something else but only identified and prevented from doing harm. They are
not the product of family upbringing or environment. Empoverished
environments can often harden people to crime, but these criminals are still
capable of loving and caring to some extent within their own group.
"Pseudo-psychopaths" can be created, however, through contact with a true
psychopath. The most common way this can occur is to have parent who is one.
This creates a state which closely mimics the real thing. But even people
unlucky enough to have a psychopathic parent often do not turn out that way
themselves.  Messed up, yes.
Another way is illustrated in this article.  Probably only one of the
"liars" was a true psychopath.  The other was simply in close contact with
him for a long period of time and accepted this worldview. In other words he
was a person whose view of reality could be manipulated by the psychopath.
The psychological condition Folie a Deux is an example of how far this can
go and of course hypnosis, and even false agreement wtih a desire to please,
follow along this same continuum. Two psychopaths cannot  exist for long
together within an group, except in unusual cases, like the Nazi regime
where Hitler looked for and hired psychopaths. Mostly, one will destroy the
other.
Once a psychopath is allowed to flourish within an institution, whether
family or government (or mailing list for that matter) he eventually will
control it, or severely distort its functioning, since he has no compassion
for others and literally cannot "feel into" their experience, and thus has
no qualms about taking any measures to gain control or influence.
Blatant bald-faced lying is one sign of a psychopath, but there are other
more subtle ones.  A psychopath will never claim responsibility for anything
that occurs which others might disapprove of. Psychopaths often use language
inappropriately, like large words used only to impress, due to their mimicry
of authorities and powerful people. They often will not disagree directly
with someone but simply attempt to destroy them.
They are close observers of human nature and mimic it to a greater or lesser
degree, since they learn early on that there is something missing in
themselves that others have, that allows others to "understand through
empathy". This mimcry often takes the form of attempting to gain assent for
each thing they do, like using words like "right?" at the end of each
sentence.  "Those guys are jerks, right?"
The common image of a psychopath as a "serial killer" is detrimental to
understanding this menace, since mosty psychopaths do not resort ot violence
as a means to an end-- unless it becomes necessary. And most serial killers
are not psychopaths, they are compulsive sexual deviants. Most stupid
psychopaths get involved in petty crime.  They are the guy who bilks you at
the service station and swears up and down that his boss said it was OK, or
that it was somehow "your fault".  Most intelligent psychopaths gravitate to
organized crime, big business, government, or the military-- centers of
power. They are somewhat responsible for the bad reputations these
organizations have. They love the social philosophy that devolves
responsibility onto institutions or outside factors, like guns, hard rock,
twinkies, or the ghetto, since this is what they truly believe anyway: all
those bad things that happened, they were made to do. "She looked at me the
wrong way, I had to knife her".
Can inventors be psychopaths? I leave that for you to decide.

Fred

>   However, I began to notice that something else was happening. Two of
>   the partners were lying. They were lying quite openly, and about all
>   sorts of minor things. The lies were small enough that I never would
>   have noticed them ordinarily. To see them I had to be intentionally
>   looking for them. As they discussed things over time, their stories
>   slowly changed in obvious ways, and always so as to make themselves
>   appear to be the "good guys," and so their opponents appeared to be
>   evil. Long friendships were conveniently misremembered as hostile
>   rivalry, and some recent major changes in attitudes were discussed as
>   if they had always been the norm.

track down Scott M. Peck's book "THE PEOPLE OF THE
>   LIE," ISBN:0684848597 It's by a psychologist who noticed that a
>   portion of his patients shared a certain trait: extreme
>   self-protective and self-centered dishonesty; what the outside world
>   labels as "evil."
>
>
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 10:54:58 1999
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Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:51:17 -0400
From: Felix Meyer 
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Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format.
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William Beaty schrieb:
> 
> On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Gerald Zani wrote:
> 
> > Bill, Tappers,
> >
> > The projo about the Levitron article is very good.  I have it posted on my
> > bulletin board.  If you try to go to the web sites that Bill pointed to you
> > will have trouble.  So I copied the articles and posted them at:
> 
> The author just contacted me to say that Projo takes articles off after
> one week.  He gives permission to put it on WWW, so it now can be found
> at:
> 

Here a picture for those who want to see it: attached
 
regards						Felix
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/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof
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--------------A0D29446BD2EA2511E619D42--


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 11:30:38 1999
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Message-ID: <37EFB832.1637@cyberportal.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:32:18 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" 
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Organization: Nu Energy Horizons
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Subject: My Decision To Publish Book
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Hello All,

Over the week-end I have received several private
e-mails in regards to should I publish or not.

I would like to thank each and everyone of you
for taking the time to help me with this emotional
decision. Your feedback has given me the courage to
take a good look at myself.

Am I in this research for humanity? The answer is yes.

Am I in it for the money? Yes... without money I can
not carry out my self appointed mission in my life.

Is money the means to an end? Of course not.

I have decided to go ahead and publish the book.
It will be published right about the same time
that products will be made available, with some
restrictions. Pre-orders will be taken, these
editions will be signed by me. I really do not
expect to sell more than fifty. Financially, I
am hoping to brake even. The important thing is
that this information gets out before it is too
late.

If I am not "willing to go the distance" then what is
my life worth at this point? I know what is ahead of
me... it will not be easy. However, I will muster the
storm ahead. I'll be damned if this technology will
die with me like it has with so many inventors of
the past.

Yes, with your virtual cyber support, I will "enjoy the ride."


Peace to you all, and may we all enjoy many more days of freedom!


         -Bruce A. Perreault





Here are some your responses over the week-end...

"Bruce, I feel that you should release the products first, to
get your name marked on the product. After a 90 day period, 
then release your book. This will ensure coverage. If we cannot 
make that timeframe, then it is already too late before bubba 
takes a dump."

"WAIT BRUCE. COVER YOUR DOORS FIRST. THERE ARE VULTURES OUT THERE. YOU
LOST IT WITH THE STAR MODE. KEEP YOUR BASES COVERED."


"Just like any big decision in life, if you were not nervous about
publishing
then I think there would be something wrong.

>From what I have read from the guiding lights of free energy
investigation,
publishing and spreading the knowledge is the way forward. If you don't
publish I think you go against all that has been said.

As I commented to you the other day you are so close to your goal. Don't
do
like your heroes, publish and be known as the person who was true to
their
word and showed the way forward.

I hope this helps.

Where do I sign for my copy..... Its got to be here for my stocking for
Christmas."


"Bruce,

What is your true intention in writing this book? That is the question
you 
need to answer before you publish it. What are you trying to create?
What 
do you want to get from it? If you are going for profit then don't do
it. 
Keep the ideas and try to make some money on them. If you are making 
information available to forward a cause, print it.

Keep in mind the results of each release you have made up till now. It 
seems that each fundamental advancement that you have put forward has
been 
met with criticism first and then someone else claming to have something 
that looks just like it. It is unlikely that this will be much
different.

In my experience, my true intention always dictates the result. If I get 
something I don't expect, All I have to do is go back and look again at 
what my intention was. This book would be so interesting and helpful to
the 
people on this list, myself included. That is not the point.

What do you truly want to create? Will releasing the book help you get
it 
our not?"


"Bruce,
In the world there are people who do and people who wished they could
do,
in the population there are very very few who have what it takes to go
the 
distance and in our arena the population is so small that the chances of 
someone going the distance is very small. You do however and are far a
head 
of the pack. Life is a messy thing but it always seems to work it's self
for 
the highest good.

I wish you peace, but if not, enjoy the ride."

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 12:38:50 1999
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Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:37:06 +0200
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER)
Subject: Re: The "Repulsin" from Schauberger, an E.A.D. device ?...
Resent-Message-ID: <"hsEmi2.0.I_7.qUyxt"@mx1>
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At 13:30 27.09.1999 EDT, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote:
>Dear All,
>
>Today, I have updated my web site.
>
>If you are interested by the "Repulsin" flying saucer from Viktor Schauberger 
>you may find some interesting informations at :
>http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/repulsin.htm
>
>I have also added some explanations and a video about the Coanda Effect at :
>http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/coanda.htm
>
>Best Regards
>Jean-Louis Naudin
>Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
>Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm
>
Nice pictures !

Here a reference with original photos of Schauberger repulsine which show a
little more from the "inner life" of the Schauberger repulsine !

Callum Coats
Living energies -
Viktor Schaubergers brilliant work with natural energy explained
1996 Gateway Books The Hollies, Wellow Bath BA2 8QJ, UK

My own book see http://www.overunity.de/theory.htm (out of print !)
contained a chapter on this theme as well, but the information in the book
cited above is more complete ! 

Best regards

Dieter Bauer 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 14:08:56 1999
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Mehmet,

This is just a clever example of a "Slip-Stick" system.

By quickly moving a mass forward it can overcome the friction holding it in 
place.  Then by slowly moving the mass back to it's new relative starting 
position it doesn't overcome the same friction.  Once you are back in the 
starting position you can lunge forward again.

Try it yourself, on a well polished floor place a bath towel.  Stand on the 
towel with your feet spread apart to create a wide stance.  Slowly move 
most of your weight onto left foot, then quickly move your weight to the 
right foot with a sudden stop at the end.  You should be able to move the 
towel to the right with a little practice.

Bill
webriggs@concentric.net
briggs@XLNsystems.com

<<< Hi guys,

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From: Robin van Spaandonk 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: The "Repulsin" from Schauberger, an E.A.D. device ?...
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:39:37 +1000
Organization: Improving
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On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:30:34 EDT, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote:
[snip]
>Dear All,
>
>Today, I have updated my web site.
>
>If you are interested by the "Repulsin" flying saucer from Viktor Schauberger 
>you may find some interesting informations at :
>http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/repulsin.htm
>
[snip]
Hi Jean-Louis,

What happened to "The PFT Motor mk2" when you approached it with a
strong magnet?


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 20:23:54 1999
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Disclaimer: Not to be taken as medical advice, I am not a physician, for
informational
purposes only.

This may be somewhat off the list topic as it relates to alt health, however I am
convinced
this will be of immense interest to many on here.

I tried an experiment lately with three substances, the result of which left me in
complete
awe.

I suffer from chronic back aches, likely as a result of the nature of work I do.
My
upper back and between my shoulders is aoften so tight and congestions I almost
lose feeling in the muscles there, I go to chiropractors, spend tons of dough on
massage, supplements etc.... I have never received even close to the relief as I
have
with this concoction I came up with.  All pain was gone, muscles were relieved
and my energy level skyrocketed... I havent felt that good since I was a teenager.

Heres what you do,

    Acquire the following;

        1.)    Cayenne Pepper powder - get the strong stuff such as found in
supplement
                caps

        2.)    Silica Hydride - Microhydrin Capsules

        3.)    DMSO - get good stuff

Break a capsule of the Microhydrin and the Cayenne, mix together in a bowl,
sprinkle
the mixture over the area to be treated, pour a good helping of the DMSO over the
mixture, rub together until a paste is formed over the skin, rub vigorously,
within
minutes the chemical nature of the DMSO causes the mixture to sink rapidly
into the deeper tissues of the body, amazing warmth and relief is felt immediately

and may last at close to the same level for hours (i.e. 3 to 5 hours), afterwards
the relief will decrease about 30 % but the overall effect will last for days!!!

DMSO is known to cause any substance it comes into contact with to be rapidly and
deeply absorbed by the body, ensure that there are no toxic substances on your
skin prior
to application otherwise they will penetrate as well, I recommend doing this after
a shower.

Negative side effects;  the only side effects I am aware of is that you'll stink,
really badly.
You wont likely want to apply this and then go out in public cause it smells
really pretty nasty.
Otherwise, all these substances, to my understanding are completely safe.



















From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 20:30:16 1999
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From: D Adams 
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Some additional thoughts I had on this... Whats going on here in this process?

Well, we know that when DMSO is mixed with hydrogen peroxide for topical
or oral treatments, oxygenation occurs... now if the release of negative hydrogen
is one of the benfits of normal ingestion of Silica hydride, could the mixture below
be intensely bombarding deep tissues with essentials such as;

        1.) Oxygen
        2.) Negative Hydrogen

?????

Then of course you have the generally therapeutic effects of the DMSO itself not to
mention
that the cayenne pepper is providing the heat, etc... talk about giving muscles the
ultimate
nutrient bath!!!!

D Adams wrote:

> Disclaimer: Not to be taken as medical advice, I am not a physician, for
> informational
> purposes only.
>
> This may be somewhat off the list topic as it relates to alt health, however I am
> convinced
> this will be of immense interest to many on here.
>
> I tried an experiment lately with three substances, the result of which left me in
> complete
> awe.
>
> I suffer from chronic back aches, likely as a result of the nature of work I do.
> My
> upper back and between my shoulders is aoften so tight and congestions I almost
> lose feeling in the muscles there, I go to chiropractors, spend tons of dough on
> massage, supplements etc.... I have never received even close to the relief as I
> have
> with this concoction I came up with.  All pain was gone, muscles were relieved
> and my energy level skyrocketed... I havent felt that good since I was a teenager.
>
> Heres what you do,
>
>     Acquire the following;
>
>         1.)    Cayenne Pepper powder - get the strong stuff such as found in
> supplement
>                 caps
>
>         2.)    Silica Hydride - Microhydrin Capsules
>
>         3.)    DMSO - get good stuff
>
> Break a capsule of the Microhydrin and the Cayenne, mix together in a bowl,
> sprinkle
> the mixture over the area to be treated, pour a good helping of the DMSO over the
> mixture, rub together until a paste is formed over the skin, rub vigorously,
> within
> minutes the chemical nature of the DMSO causes the mixture to sink rapidly
> into the deeper tissues of the body, amazing warmth and relief is felt immediately
>
> and may last at close to the same level for hours (i.e. 3 to 5 hours), afterwards
> the relief will decrease about 30 % but the overall effect will last for days!!!
>
> DMSO is known to cause any substance it comes into contact with to be rapidly and
> deeply absorbed by the body, ensure that there are no toxic substances on your
> skin prior
> to application otherwise they will penetrate as well, I recommend doing this after
> a shower.
>
> Negative side effects;  the only side effects I am aware of is that you'll stink,
> really badly.
> You wont likely want to apply this and then go out in public cause it smells
> really pretty nasty.
> Otherwise, all these substances, to my understanding are completely safe.



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 22:10:27 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 01:09:42 EDT
Subject: Re: The "Repulsin" from Schauberger, an E.A.D. device ?...
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Dans un courrier daté du 28/09/99 01:41:07é), rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au a écrit 
:

> What happened to "The PFT Motor mk2" when you approached it with a
>  strong magnet?
>

Hi Robin,

Nothing, I have used a strong Neodymium magnet the speed doesn't change, If 
the magnet are too close to the aluminum rotor the eddy current tends to slow 
down the speed...
The B-Field must be linked to the E-Field ( same time frame) for getting the 
effect. So, the B-Field must be generated by the E-Field itself.

Regards,

Jean-Louis

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   I think an easier way to explain the local effects of the combination
is
the trapped protein theory.
   DMSO is essentially an organic solvent: it helps the trapped
materials 
to break free, therefore allowing the tissue to breath easier.
   The cayenne pepper increases the activity of the cells.
   I do not know much about the silica hydride.

  I would expect the effects to be local and of limited duration.
  Unless the cause of the problem is local, all they can do is to 
minimize the effects on the local tissue.
  We used combinations of DMSO, extracts, herbs, etc for many years,
they are usually effective when the cause is local (strained muscle,
damaged tissue, luxations, burns, etc).
  Usually the problems of the spine are the results of stress and
toxicity
in other parts of the body, and that is why the chiropractic methods 
are of limited effect.
  


> 
> D Adams wrote:

> >     Acquire the following;
> >
> >         1.)    Cayenne Pepper powder - get the strong stuff such as found in
> > supplement
> >                 caps
> >
> >         2.)    Silica Hydride - Microhydrin Capsules
> >
> >         3.)    DMSO - get good stuff
> >

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 22:36:37 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 01:36:26 EDT
Subject: Re: GYROSCOPIC INERTIAL THRUSTER
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Dans un courrier daté du 27/09/99 23:11:03é), MH2_BRIGGS@ODNVMS.A1.Ohio.Gov a 
écrit :

> This is just a clever example of a "Slip-Stick" system.
>  
>  By quickly moving a mass forward it can overcome the friction holding it 
in 
>  place.  Then by slowly moving the mass back to it's new relative starting 
>  position it doesn't overcome the same friction.  Once you are back in the 
>  starting position you can lunge forward again.

Hi fully agree with this....

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 22:55:23 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: The "Repulsin" from Schauberger, an E.A.D. device ?...
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:55:08 +1000
Organization: Improving
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On Tue, 28 Sep 1999 01:09:42 EDT, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote:
[snip]
>Hi Robin,
>
>Nothing, I have used a strong Neodymium magnet the speed doesn't change, If 
>the magnet are too close to the aluminum rotor the eddy current tends to slow 
>down the speed...
>The B-Field must be linked to the E-Field ( same time frame) for getting the 
>effect. So, the B-Field must be generated by the E-Field itself.
[snip]
Hi Jean-Louis,

Thanks for your reply. Perhaps you could explain this in some detail?
I'm not aware of any other device, that makes use of magnetic fields,
where the behaviour of the device is not affected by additional external
fields. For me the behaviour you describe is a strong indication that
the device doesn't in fact use magnetic fields at all, but rather is a
pure inductance (electrical) motor.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Sep 27 23:31:21 1999
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Subject: Re: The "Repulsin" from Schauberger, an E.A.D. device ?...
From: "Rick Monteverde" 
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Robin -

If it were simply inductive, what I don't understand is why there would be
more charge on the rotor on the section moving away from the stator's
midline. I would think that induction and the later relaxation of the
dielectric structure as it moves away would occur so fast that for purposes
of induction the rotor should look like it was standing still. And also the
thing consumes power - ion transfer? If the material in the rotor just tends
to hold induced charge longer as it moves away, then that explains the
motion for me as well.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

> Hi Jean-Louis,
>
> Thanks for your reply. Perhaps you could explain this in some detail?
> I'm not aware of any other device, that makes use of magnetic fields,
> where the behaviour of the device is not affected by additional external
> fields. For me the behaviour you describe is a strong indication that
> the device doesn't in fact use magnetic fields at all, but rather is a
> pure inductance (electrical) motor.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk 
>
> 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 00:09:33 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Message-ID: 
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 03:08:59 EDT
Subject: Re: About the PFT-Motor
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Dans un courrier daté du 28/09/99 07:57:28é), rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au a écrit 
:

> I'm not aware of any other device, that makes use of magnetic fields,
>  where the behaviour of the device is not affected by additional external
>  fields.
>Regards,

>Robin van Spaandonk

Hi Robin,

This is the Poynting Flow Effect...not a simple MHD Effect...

Jean-Louis

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 00:27:51 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" 
To: 
Cc: "Stuart Rae" 
Subject: Re: Barium Titanate to Solar Energy
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Hi Dave,
>>
>>http://members.aol.com/overunity/html/paramp31.htm
>>
>Did you or Jean-Louis revisit this circuit?

No, Stuart Rae was going to do it with the varactor I picked out as best, a
BB212 with > 20:1 capacitance ratio, but I don't recall him every giving any
results. Did you ever do that test, Stuart?

 The varactors have an
>indeterminate DC bias, and might be foward biased at times.

You mean because of the signal itself modulating the C?

The first 2
>oscilloscope photos show the output at the same frequency as the pump
>input. Can you explain the operating difference from the later photo with
>f/2 output?

Only in the most general terms. There is a lot of variation in these things
since the "unstable" regions (where you see continuing oscillations) of the
mathieu equation solutions depend on the level of C variation, the rate of
modulation, and the R of the tank. And then there is the cross modulation of
the signal itself which in these types of circuits is considerable.
Normally these varactors are only used with signals that are less than 1/2
the V of the bias V. and there is another factor, I didnt realize until
later, the very large c variation in these tests...

 In my tests, I only found a weak 2*f output, but only had about
>a 3:1 capacitance ratio. My varactors had a controlled negative DC bias as
>well as a sine wave punp.

A couple of points:
1) All parametric amplifiers or transformers use C or L variations in the 20
percent range rather than the enormous 300 percent range of your varactor,
much less the 2000 percent of the BB212.  This is unknown territory and the
math is beyond me on how to plot out regions of stability in these levels of
C variation.  They are never used. It may well be that a much lower C
variation would be more stable.  Normally the "same freq" output is not
seen, only the 2F, and this is proably due to the much larger C variations.
2) What was the POWER input of your negative bias based on your tests?
3) A square wave is more effective at driving parametrics than sine, this
may be why it was hard to get the 2F going.

>Thanks

Sure Dave, this is really interesting territory that is still not covered
well.

Fred

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 00:51:43 1999
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From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Amazing Discovery?
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:50:51 GMT
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Hi Don,

On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:25:41 -0700, D Adams 
wrote:

>Heres what you do,
>
>    Acquire the following;
>        1.)    Cayenne Pepper powder - get the strong stuff such as found in
>supplement caps
>        2.)    Silica Hydride - Microhydrin Capsules
>        3.)    DMSO - get good stuff

All of these imply that your backaches (and probably most backaches
that people have, including spinal disk problems) are caused by virus
or bacterial infection -- or even "worm" type parasites.  The
ingredients you listed will kill a good portion of them.

Another way of killing them, along with parasites that cause many
other problems, is to use a pulse generator that will produce 10-12
volt pulses at a frequency of about 2 kHz.  Don't use a higher
voltage!!  Connect a ground lead from the pulse generator to a short
(6") piece of copper pipe and the hot lead to another piece of pipe.  

Hold one pipe in each hand for 7 minutes, off for 20 minutes, on for 7
minutes, off for 20 minutes and on again for 7 minutes.  This
apparently kills a good percentage of body parasites.  If you have
chronic problems, or problems in body cavities (sinuses, stomach,
intestines, etc.), then repeated application is needed.

This method has cured a chronic, debilitating, sinus condition I had
(for over 7 years) when nothing the MDs prescribed worked.  I noticed
that a very bad back pain I had also disappeared when I used the pulse
generator.  (The sinus condition took 6 months to completely go away,
but the first application caused a major reduction in severity.  The
back pain went away upon the first application.)

Disclaimer:  I'm not an MD and don't suggest this method as anything
other than something you might consider trying as an experiment.

-- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines  (CDP, KB0ZDF)

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 00:58:11 1999
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Bill, this dose sound plausible... and could easily be tested by suspending 
the device horizontally.... or maybe just laying it on it's side???


>This is just a clever example of a "Slip-Stick" system.
>
>By quickly moving a mass forward it can overcome the friction holding it in
>place.  Then by slowly moving the mass back to it's new relative starting
>position it doesn't overcome the same friction.  Once you are back in the
>starting position you can lunge forward again.
>
>Try it yourself, on a well polished floor place a bath towel.  Stand on the
>towel with your feet spread apart to create a wide stance.  Slowly move
>most of your weight onto left foot, then quickly move your weight to the
>right foot with a sudden stop at the end.  You should be able to move the
>towel to the right with a little practice.
>
>Bill
>webriggs@concentric.net
>briggs@XLNsystems.com
>
><<< Hi guys,
>----------
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 02:40:56 1999
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Hi Dan,

Thanks for the great response!

Dan Ghiocel wrote:

>    I think an easier way to explain the local effects of the combination
> is
> the trapped protein theory.
>    DMSO is essentially an organic solvent: it helps the trapped
> materials
> to break free, therefore allowing the tissue to breath easier.
>    The cayenne pepper increases the activity of the cells.
>    I do not know much about the silica hydride.
>
>   I would expect the effects to be local and of limited duration.
>   Unless the cause of the problem is local, all they can do is to
> minimize the effects on the local tissue.
>   We used combinations of DMSO, extracts, herbs, etc for many years,
> they are usually effective when the cause is local (strained muscle,
> damaged tissue, luxations, burns, etc).
>   Usually the problems of the spine are the results of stress and
> toxicity
> in other parts of the body, and that is why the chiropractic methods
> are of limited effect.
>
>
> >
> > D Adams wrote:
>
> > >     Acquire the following;
> > >
> > >         1.)    Cayenne Pepper powder - get the strong stuff such as found in
> > > supplement
> > >                 caps
> > >
> > >         2.)    Silica Hydride - Microhydrin Capsules
> > >
> > >         3.)    DMSO - get good stuff
> > >



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 04:00:42 1999
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Fusion Research Device Built 
With Leftovers And Ingenuity

http://unisci.com/stories/19993/0920996.htm


The shape of HSX is certainly its signature
and the key to its unique properties. The
vacuum chamber looks like a warped donut,
with a series of helical twists and turns
girdled by thick coils of copper magnets.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 06:30:28 1999
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From: "Stefano Innocenti" 
To: "freenrg-l" 
Subject: A new site for the "Testatika Machine"
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:22:38 +0200
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Hi list,

You can find it at:
http://utenti.tripod.it/~testatikmachine/introindex.htm

Stefano

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Subject: Re: Amazing Discovery? DMSO ?
References:  <6v=vNyyVYYwBHXdVihtQUt4zhaxG@4ax.com> <37F03535.8E03C2B7@telusplanet.net> <37F036C3.FEB8D32F@telusplanet.net> <37F05378.EA101E21@ghiocel.com> <37F08DA0.C8194D78@telusplanet.net>
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Please,

what is the abrevitation for DMSO ?

If you post interesting health offtopic
posts over here, please try to explain
more for the guys, that never had a health curse like me !
:)
Thanks !

Regards, Stefan.



--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 07:22:04 1999
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From: Duncan Purvis 
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Stefan Hartmann 
Subject: Re[2]: Amazing Discovery? DMSO ?
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DMSO is dimethylsulphoxide., it is generally used as a universal solvent along with water and DMF (dimethyl formamide.

Duncan


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Amazing Discovery? DMSO ?
Author:  MIME:Stefan Hartmann  at INTERNET
Date:    28/09/99 15:03


Please,

what is the abrevitation for DMSO ?

If you post interesting health offtopic posts over here, please try to explain
more for the guys, that never had a health curse like me ! :)
Thanks !

Regards, Stefan.



--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !




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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 07:47:54 1999
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On 28-Sep-99 Stefan Hartmann wrote:
> what is the abrevitation for DMSO ?
DMSO

Charlie

P.S. In case you were wondering what
     it stood for: dimethyl sulfoxide

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 08:32:39 1999
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Stefan Hartmann 
Subject: Re[2]: Amazing Discovery? DMSO ?
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>From   http://www.mothernature.com/ency/Supp/DMSO.asp


What does it do? DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) is a colorless, slightly oily liquid that is primarilyused as an industrial solvent. The use of DMSO for therapeutic applications is controversial, but there is some evidence that when applied directly to the ski






n DMSO has anti-inflammatory properties and alleviates pain, especially that associated with connective tissue diseases (such as scleroderma osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis) and muscle injuries.1 2 DMSO appears to reduce pain by inhibiting the tra






nsmission of pain messages by nerves.DMSO is sometimes used by physicians as a vehicle to help absorb other therapeutic agents through the skin.

Where is it found? DMSO is derived from trees as a manufacturing by-product from the processing of paper. Metabolities of DMSO, such as the sulfide and sulfone form, are naturally present in the human body, however the role of these in the body are not cl






ear.

In what conditions might DMSO be supportive?

athletic support

minor injuries

osteoarthritis

rheumatoid arthritis

Who is likely to be deficient? Since DMSO is not an essential nutrient and it is not needed in the functions of a healthy body,there are no deficiencies of this substance.

How much should I take? There is no reason for healthy people to use DMSO; those who do use this substance should consult a nutritionally oriented physician. Some physicians do not recommend the use of DMSO, due to concerns about safety and questions abou






t efficacy. There is a potential for contamination in some DMSO products designed for  industrial or veterinary uses. DMSO used topically is rapidly absorbed through intact skin; it is very important for the area of skin (and the hands applying DMSO) to b






e clean,because anything on the skin will also be absorbed along with the DMSO.

Are there any side effects or interactions? DMSO is associated with several undesirable effects, the most common being a garlic-like body odor and taste in the mouth. Also reported are stomach upset, sensitivity to light, visual disturbances, and headache






. Skin irritation can develop at the site where DMSO is applied to the skin. It is very important to use only high-quality DMSO, since the solvent properties of DMSO allow any contaminants to be absorbed through the skin and transported into the bloodstre






am.

References:

1. American Medical Association. Dimethyl sulfoxide. Controversy and Current Status-1981. JAMA 1982;248:1369-71.
2. Jimenez RAH, Willkens RF. Dimethyl sulfoxide: A perspective of its use in rheumatic diseases. J Lab Clin Med 1982;100:489-500.
3. Jacob SW, Wood DC. Dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO). Toxicology, pharmacology, and clinical experience. Am J Surg 114:414-26.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Amazing Discovery? DMSO ?
Author:  MIME:Stefan Hartmann  at INTERNET
Date:    28/09/99 15:03


Please,

what is the abrevitation for DMSO ?

If you post interesting health offtopic posts over here, please try to explain
more for the guys, that never had a health curse like me ! :)
Thanks !

Regards, Stefan.



--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !




------------------------------------------------------------
Scientific Generics Limited  Tel: +44 1223 875200
Harston Mill                 Fax: +44 1223 875201
Harston                      http://www.generics.co.uk
Cambridge CB2 5NH
United Kingdom
Registered in England No 2081960
------------------------------------------------------------


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 08:37:38 1999
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Message-ID: <37F0EE8A.3F4F0B5B@mail.admiral.ru>
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:36:26 +0300
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Subject: Re: The "Repulsin" from Schauberger, an E.A.D. device ?...
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I can not get info from this link, sorry.

Alexander
--------

JNaudin509@aol.com wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> Today, I have updated my web site.
>
> If you are interested by the "Repulsin" flying saucer from Viktor Schauberger
> you may find some interesting informations at :
> http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/repulsin.htm
>
> I have also added some explanations and a video about the Coanda Effect at :
> http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/coanda.htm
>
> Best Regards
> Jean-Louis Naudin
> Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
> Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm



--
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From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock)
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Subject: Re: Amazing Discovery?
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:48:05 -0400
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>        1.)    Cayenne Pepper powder - get the strong stuff such as found in
>supplement caps

There is a bit about this on my web page under the chronic
pain section. http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/  If you want
to make your own "Pepper Spray" it is made from the stuff
that surrounds the seeds, to keep predators from eating the
seeds.  Most people make the mistake of using crushed
seeds.  You can by the same stuff in liquid form at a lot of
Bicycle Shops to keep dogs from eating your legs.  DO NOT
GET IT IN YOUR EYES.  It won't kill you, but you wish you
where dead until you get it cried out.


>        3.)    DMSO - get good stuff

Medical Grade goes by the names RIMSO-50 for one, SOL for an
other.  You can get from liquid form for injection to a
solid past form, like Jello.  You can tell the purity of
DMSO by the temperature that it freezes at.  Pure DMSO will
freeze at 68'F.  Oddly mixed with water the stuff makes a
good antifreeze below zero.

A lot of the modern research has been done by a Dr. Jabcops
(sp?) in Oregon.

The book "DMSO: Natures Healer" by Dr. Morton Walker covers
most of this.  It can be gotten from the Explore Book Club
at http://www.explorepub.com.

Doing a search for "DMSO" at http://www.explorepub.com also
show that Emu (Large Bird) Oil will "cause any substance it
comes into contact with to be rapidly" absorbed.

Emu Oil has been approved for some uses by our wonderful FDA,
where DMSO has not.  DMSO is only approved for internal use
in a rare bladder condition.  [Puts to many drug companies
out of biz.]

I was told once by the local AutoParts Supplier that the
largest buyers of WD40 spray on oil where people with
arthritis.  I've always wondered if it contained DMSO?

Non-pure DMSO can cause some nasty skin reactions.  Pure
DMSO just causes bad breath that kills (smells like rotten
cabbage), no mater where you applied the stuff on your body,
and on a rare occasion a red itchy rash in the area that it
was applied.  This breath fact is what has kept double blind
studies from being done.  DMSO has been shown to cause
cornea (Eye) problems in Pigs, Dogs, and Rabbits, but *NOT*
humans and others.  So don't use the stuff on your Dog.

Now what this tread has to do with Viktor S. in any way
completely escapes me?

-- 
For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at:
                   http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/
Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone,
Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure,
KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment.
                         http://www.uCOS-II.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 09:36:36 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Message-ID: <1bd6b5be.25224864@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:35:48 EDT
Subject: Re: The "Repulsin" from Schauberger, an E.A.D. device ?...
To: frolov@mail.admiral.ru, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Dans un courrier daté du 28/09/99 17:43:16é), frolov@mail.admiral.ru a écrit :
> I can not get info from this link, sorry.
>  
>  Alexander
>  --------

I have checked the link, this seems working, please try again, may this is 
due to the overloading of the Internet...

http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/repulsin.htm

Regards,

Jean-Louis

>  
>  JNaudin509@aol.com wrote:
>  
>  > Dear All,
>  >
>  > Today, I have updated my web site.
>  >
>  > If you are interested by the "Repulsin" flying saucer from Viktor 
> Schauberger
>  > you may find some interesting informations at :
>  > http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/repulsin.htm
>  >
>  > I have also added some explanations and a video about the Coanda Effect 
at 
> :
>  > http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/coanda.htm
>  >
>  > Best Regards
>  > Jean-Louis Naudin

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 09:39:55 1999
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Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:37:37 +0100
From: Stefan Hartmann 
Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service
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References: <01bf09b4$89217de0$3900fd80@zio-stefo>
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Stefano Innocenti schrieb:
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> You can find it at:
> http://utenti.tripod.it/~testatikmachine/introindex.htm
> 
> Stefano


Hi Stefano,

did you build the Newman machine at:

http://utenti.tripod.it/~testatikmachine/jwnssmg/index.htm

??

BTW, the link is wrong in your page !


What are the passwords to access the MPEG movie files ?

Regards, Stefan.

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 09:51:06 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Message-ID: <7a95d4c3.25224bdf@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:50:39 EDT
Subject: Proposed New SEG Type Design
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Dear All,

You will find an interesting update in my web site at:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/newseg.htm

Proposed New SEG Type Design  by Dave Squires
========================

This design is based on the ExBxS relationship where the Poynting S-vector 
imbalance causes and sustains the motion of the rollers. 
It is an extension of Jean-Louis Naudin's PFT MK2 high voltage capacitive 
electrostatic motor.
Instead of the center ring rotating the rollers move around the ring using 
the same S-vector force. The B-field comes from the magnets. The E-field 
comes from the pre-stressed and precharged dielectric (electret). A slight 
movement of the rollers should get them moving and accelerating. No special 
magnetic patterns are required if the ExBxS vector relationship is valid as 
proven by the PFT MK2 motor.
This has not been built and tested yet. It is only a design proposal based on 
current findings and experiments done by Jean-Louis Naudin. 
Dave Squires - 9-27-99
----------------

Best Regards,
Jean-Louis Naudin
Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 10:09:31 1999
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From: "Martin" 
To: 
Subject: Re: Bedini Type Battery Charger
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:32:53 +0200
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Did you ever have any luck with this thing?
Regards
Martin
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/
_______________________________________________
We have enough gun control.
 What we need is idiot and criminal control.
_______________________________________________

Hi Felis and all,

I downloaded a copy of the Nakamatsu Bedini type patent from Micropat. It is
of course in Japanese. I thought maybe I could read the schematic at least
but it is hard to follow.
If there is anybody here who understands Japanese I will send it to them.

Fred

     The Nakamatsu patent application of which there is an English
translation(partial) describes a battery recharging system that appears very
similar to Bedini's, with similar claims.  Has Bedini's available material
been altered, as I suspect it is-to produce a 'nonworking' device?  Would
studying both the Nakamatsu and Bedini materials enable us to produce a
working device?  Let me know what you think of the enclosed material...
    felis catus   felis@frontiernet.net


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 10:31:15 1999
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Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:20:16 -0400
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz 
Subject: Re: Amazing Discovery? DMSO ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <37F0CDD6.5C8A89D8@harti.com>
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At 10:55 AM 9/28/99 -0400, Charlie Hodgson wrote:
>
>On 28-Sep-99 Stefan Hartmann wrote:
>> what is the abrevitation for DMSO ?
>DMSO
>
>Charlie
>
>P.S. In case you were wondering what
>     it stood for: dimethyl sulfoxide


  Please be very careful with that material.
Anything in solution with it, can and will
enter the human skin.

   Mitchell Swartz


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 11:27:09 1999
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Message-ID: <37F115AF.721E5A52@mail.admiral.ru>
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:23:28 +0300
From: "Alexander V. Frolov" 
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Organization: Home Lab
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Hello,

Some time ago I wrote about Searl design and I connected its forces with known
Poynting vector ExHxS. Now I have to ask one more time: Jean, is it your original
idea that you wrote here?

It is not a problem, sometimes different people are thinking by the same way. But
I am interested to hear your answer.

Alexander V. Frolov
--------------------

JNaudin509@aol.com wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> You will find an interesting update in my web site at:
> http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/newseg.htm
>
> Proposed New SEG Type Design  by Dave Squires
> ========================
>
> This design is based on the ExBxS relationship where the Poynting S-vector
> imbalance causes and sustains the motion of the rollers.
> It is an extension of Jean-Louis Naudin's PFT MK2 high voltage capacitive
> electrostatic motor.
> Instead of the center ring rotating the rollers move around the ring using
> the same S-vector force. The B-field comes from the magnets. The E-field
> comes from the pre-stressed and precharged dielectric (electret). A slight
> movement of the rollers should get them moving and accelerating. No special
> magnetic patterns are required if the ExBxS vector relationship is valid as
> proven by the PFT MK2 motor.
> This has not been built and tested yet. It is only a design proposal based on
> current findings and experiments done by Jean-Louis Naudin.
> Dave Squires - 9-27-99
> ----------------
>
> Best Regards,
> Jean-Louis Naudin
> Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
> Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm



--
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
ICQ 43757451



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 11:35:57 1999
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From: DEADWATE@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:35:37 EDT
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Do you recall the young Mexican lady that went to a hospital in Riverside,Ca. 
and as they were working on her her blood dried on contact with air to a 
crystalline like texture, and the Doctors and Nurses were overcome (and the 
girl died) from noxious fumes coming from the girls blood?  It seems that she 
was suffering from Cancer, and was getting some sort of medication from 
Mexico, that, when taken in conjunction with DMSO, formed Hydrogen Sulfide 
Gas, combining with the SO part of DMSO.  Just a warning to those with an 
aversion to Jekyl and Hyde type medications.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 12:34:57 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Message-ID: 
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:34:28 EDT
Subject: Re: The "Repulsin" from Schauberger, an E.A.D. device ?...
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Dans un courrier daté du 28/09/99 17:43:16é), frolov@mail.admiral.ru a écrit :

> I can not get info from this link, sorry.
>  
>  Alexander

Dear Alexander,

If you have some trouble to get the page about the "Repulsin" from 
Schauberger you may try the mirror page at :
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/repulsin.htm

Best Regards,

Jean-Louis

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 12:39:11 1999
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Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:22:44 -0300
From: Juan de la Cruz Barrios 
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The best description about this device is in the new Tom Bearden's "growing
book" at:
http://personal.bellsouth.net/lig/i/n/infonet/BCover.htm


Martin escribió:

> Did you ever have any luck with this thing?
> Regards
> Martin
> http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/
> _______________________________________________
> We have enough gun control.
>  What we need is idiot and criminal control.
> _______________________________________________
>
> Hi Felis and all,
>
> I downloaded a copy of the Nakamatsu Bedini type patent from Micropat. It is
> of course in Japanese. I thought maybe I could read the schematic at least
> but it is hard to follow.
> If there is anybody here who understands Japanese I will send it to them.
>
> Fred
>
>      The Nakamatsu patent application of which there is an English
> translation(partial) describes a battery recharging system that appears very
> similar to Bedini's, with similar claims.  Has Bedini's available material
> been altered, as I suspect it is-to produce a 'nonworking' device?  Would
> studying both the Nakamatsu and Bedini materials enable us to produce a
> working device?  Let me know what you think of the enclosed material...
>     felis catus   felis@frontiernet.net


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 13:34:47 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" 
To: 
Subject: Re: Bedini Type Battery Charger
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:00:02 -0700
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HiJuan,

Where is it in the book ? I didn't see it...

BTW, this book is full of factual inaccuracies.  I can't say much about the
theory in it, but the factual content is at least 50 percent wrong. Don't
believe everything you read!

Fred


>
>The best description about this device is in the new Tom Bearden's "growing
>book" at:
>http://personal.bellsouth.net/lig/i/n/infonet/BCover.htm
>


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 13:35:21 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" 
To: "Free Energy" 
Subject: test
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:29:36 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00BA_01BF09B5.82412060
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



------=_NextPart_000_00BA_01BF09B5.82412060
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------=_NextPart_000_00BA_01BF09B5.82412060--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 15:40:26 1999
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Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:23:39 -0300
From: Juan de la Cruz Barrios 
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Hi Fred,

Fred Epps escribió:

> HiJuan,
>
> Where is it in the book ? I didn't see it...
>

Search in part I this:
"Back-Popping a Two-Current Lead-Acid Battery"


>
> BTW, this book is full of factual inaccuracies.  I can't say much about the
> theory in it, but the factual content is at least 50 percent wrong. Don't
> believe everything you read!
>
> Fred
>

Maybe this is wrong, but is better than  "Star Trek"! ;-)
Thanks for the advise.


>
> >
> >The best description about this device is in the new Tom Bearden's "growing
> >book" at:
> >http://personal.bellsouth.net/lig/i/n/infonet/BCover.htm
> >


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 17:24:39 1999
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Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:15:56
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Dave Dameron 
Subject: Re: Varactor circuits, was Barium Titanate to Solar Energy
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Hi Fred and all,
At 12:22 AM 9/28/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi Dave,
>>>
>>>http://members.aol.com/overunity/html/paramp31.htm
>>>
>>Did you or Jean-Louis revisit this circuit?
>
>No, Stuart Rae was going to do it with the varactor I picked out as best, a
>BB212 with > 20:1 capacitance ratio, but I don't recall him every giving any
>results. Did you ever do that test, Stuart?

I was using 2 1N5468B varactors in parallel. They are rated at 22pF at -4
volts bias. I think I sent you some oscilloscope waveform photo's back
then, Fred (Sept. 1997). Would be interested in any tests you did, Stuart.
>
> The varactors have an
>>indeterminate DC bias, and might be foward biased at times.
>
>You mean because of the signal itself modulating the C?

The circuit node between the drive capacitor and the varactors has no
defined bias voltage. So the signal voltage at the varactors is
???(min/max). (maybe clamped by their being foward biased during part of
the cycle.)
>
>The first 2
>>oscilloscope photos show the output at the same frequency as the pump
>>input. Can you explain the operating difference from the later photo with
>>f/2 output?
>
>Only in the most general terms. There is a lot of variation in these things
>since the "unstable" regions (where you see continuing oscillations) of the
>mathieu equation solutions depend on the level of C variation, the rate of
>modulation, and the R of the tank. And then there is the cross modulation of
>the signal itself which in these types of circuits is considerable.
>Normally these varactors are only used with signals that are less than 1/2
>the V of the bias V. and there is another factor, I didnt realize until
>later, the very large c variation in these tests...

Yes, so why only "f" output in the first two? Feedthrough only, no
"nonlinear" output here?
>
> In my tests, I only found a weak 2*f output, but only had about
>>a 3:1 capacitance ratio. My varactors had a controlled negative DC bias as
>>well as a sine wave punp.
>
>A couple of points:
>1) All parametric amplifiers or transformers use C or L variations in the 20
>percent range rather than the enormous 300 percent range of your varactor,
>much less the 2000 percent of the BB212.  This is unknown territory and the
>math is beyond me on how to plot out regions of stability in these levels of
>C variation.  They are never used. It may well be that a much lower C
>variation would be more stable.  Normally the "same freq" output is not
>seen, only the 2F, and this is proably due to the much larger C variations.

Yes, it isn't simple math, especially for the f/2 output! But that doesn't
stop any tests.
>2) What was the POWER input of your negative bias based on your tests?

Very small, that of a reverse biased silicon diode. I could not measure the
current through a 100k bias resistor.

>3) A square wave is more effective at driving parametrics than sine, this
>may be why it was hard to get the 2F going.

Yes. some power varactor circuits have 3F output with sine wave input,
using a 2F "idler" tank circuit.
>
>>Thanks
>
>Sure Dave, this is really interesting territory that is still not covered
>well.

I am wondering if I should try again with some different setup?
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 17:41:34 1999
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Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:45:33 -0700
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Colin Quinney 
Subject: Re: Amazing Discovery? DMSO ?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990928132016.01251cf0@world.std.com>
References: 
 <37F0CDD6.5C8A89D8@harti.com>
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I used a 90% solution of that stuff on my neck once, immediately after
receiving a painful whiplash. The DMSO came in a Roll-On type container and
I just kept using it until the pain went away. A couple of hours later my
breath really started to stink. The literature does not do justice to just
how badly. My wife and family asked me to move out and the cat ran away,
and I could not go into any public places for at least two days. When I
drove the kids to school, they hung their heads out of the car the windows
during the whole trip. Someone said here that the breath might smell of
rotten cabbage? Try a whole body odor of REALLY rotten cabbage and dead
skunks, and your breath of rotting meat in a latrine at the dump. THAT's
why it's rarely used for injuries, not because it doesn't work. It worked
great for temporary relief and possibly for my permanent fix but I
apparently used way too much and of a highly concentrated solution. It
dried up the oils all around and inside where I'd applied it and this
caused an annoying itchy rash there that was uncomfortably with me for over
18 months.

If you are going to buy it, read up on it first and be cautious with it.
There is a level of use where the breath only betrays a sleight odor.
Animal studies have proven that when used appropriately at higher doses, it
can also be of great benefit with recent neck injuries or neck fractures,
etc. It can under certain circumstances, literally save lives.

And now to keep this back on topic, I don't know if it could be used as a
catalyst in carbon-arc underwater cold fusion reactions-- but it might be
worth a try  ;-))

Colin Quinney

At 01:20 PM 09/28/99 -0400, you wrote:
>At 10:55 AM 9/28/99 -0400, Charlie Hodgson wrote:
>>
>>On 28-Sep-99 Stefan Hartmann wrote:
>>> what is the abrevitation for DMSO ?
>>DMSO
>>
>>Charlie
>>
>>P.S. In case you were wondering what
>>     it stood for: dimethyl sulfoxide
>
>
>  Please be very careful with that material.
>Anything in solution with it, can and will
>enter the human skin.
>
>   Mitchell Swartz
>
>
>
>
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 21:01:11 1999
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Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:02:31 -0400
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The original biggest proponent of DMSO is my good friend Keith Morey at
SGS Research (Super-Good-Stuff). As far as I know
he is currently looking for any positive reports re DMSO from
unbiased beneficiaries of the stuff. You can call him at SGS
at 1-800-266-0555 with any good news or questions. He is a little
evangelical about the stuff but then he really believes in it. I think
its pretty good in fact. I think he has a website somewhere too.

Alik S.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 21:42:15 1999
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From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." 
To: 
Subject: Re: funny patent
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:42:03 -0400
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>How did he get that one through?

Whatever way T. Galen Hieronymous got his through.  I saw the resemblance the
first time I heard of Afilani's devices (which was before he started selling to
the government), but seeing the circuit really convinced me.  And Afilani
doesn't even mention it.  But he tries to explain it in conventional terms,
rather than inventing a new energy like Hieronymous did.

--
Williamsport Area Computer Club 
Susquehanna Valley Amateur Astronomers

Personal Home Page 


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 21:42:18 1999
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From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." 
To: 
Subject: Re: funny patent
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:57:40 -0400
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>He did not just get it through the USPTO. He also managed to sell these
>things to government agencies inspite of Sandia tests showing the thing
>to be a scam.

Apparently it works for some people.  He's been selling them to treasure hunters
for a long time.  They also worked as a deer locator when he demonstrated them
for one of the local TV stations, although it wasn't a very good test.

I've never tried one myself because they cost too much.

I tried to get a job with his company about 6 years ago.  He didn't have a
patent then and I was trying to figure out how they worked.  I had a suspicion
that they were radionics devices and that he was being quiet about it.  I now
wonder whether he invented them independently because, as I mentioned,
Hieronymous has a patent and he doesn't refer to it.  (If Hieronymous can get
his patent through with the reference to growing plants in the dark, anything
can happen!)

--
Williamsport Area Computer Club 
Susquehanna Valley Amateur Astronomers

Personal Home Page 


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 22:05:16 1999
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Jim Shaffer, Jr. wrote:
> 
> Apparently it works for some people.  He's been selling them to treasure hunters
> for a long time.  They also worked as a deer locator when he demonstrated them
> for one of the local TV stations, although it wasn't a very good test.

I bet it doesn't work any better than my pair of coathangers does (finds
burried pipes just fine). Marines actualy used 
plain dowsing with a forked stick in Vietnam to look for tunnels. But
Afilani went out and developed a scamful story in order to sell a
coathanger to Uncle Sam for thousands of $$$.
> 
> I've never tried one myself because they cost too much.

I think above mentioned coat-hangers will come pretty close.
 
Hyeronimous openly used the person as an interface to his box (through
the rubbing pad) , in that sense his box was 'honest' radionic
appliance. This fellow came up with a completely bogus theory (the
electric fields from human heartbeats etc etc etc ).

Anyway it was supposed to just a funny patent.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Sep 28 23:50:35 1999
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From: Dan Ghiocel 
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Subject: Re: Amazing Discovery? DMSO ?
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The bad part is that the person taking DMSO does not realize how bad the
smell is.
I have been asked by people around me, if I take anything special, but I 
could never detect any odor myself. 
Other than smell, I would not worry to much about any other side
effects.
I think most of them are just speculations.
The irritation of the skin goes away quickly; if it stays, it is
probably something
toxic in the skin that had been flushed by the effect of the DMSO.
Like hydrogen peroxide, DMSO seems to have effect only on toxins and
sick or bad
tissue, and the impact on the live, healthy tissue seem to be minimum.
I am inclined to believe that the odour is coming from the combination
of the
DMSO with the toxins in the body, and not from the DMSO itself.

Dan G.

Colin Quinney wrote:
> 
> I used a 90% solution of that stuff on my neck once, immediately after
> receiving a painful whiplash. The DMSO came in a Roll-On type container and
> I just kept using it until the pain went away. A couple of hours later my
> breath really started to stink. The literature does not do justice to just
> how badly. My wife and family asked me to move out and the cat ran away,
> and I could not go into any public places for at least two days. When I

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 29 00:54:47 1999
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Message-ID: <37F1C9B4.5F947C40@mail.admiral.ru>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:11:32 +0300
From: "Alexander V. Frolov" 
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Organization: Home Lab
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Subject: Re: Searl and Poynting
References: <7a95d4c3.25224bdf@aol.com> <37F115AF.721E5A52@mail.admiral.ru>
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I have to ask Mr. Naudin once more: is it your original idea to explain The Searl
Effect by means of Poynting vector notion?

I always glad to know who is the person to think just like me.

Alexander V. Frolov
------------------------

Alexander V. Frolov wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Some time ago I wrote about Searl design and I connected its forces with known
> Poynting vector ExHxS. Now I have to ask one more time: Jean, is it your original
> idea that you wrote here?
>
> It is not a problem, sometimes different people are thinking by the same way. But
> I am interested to hear your answer.
>
> Alexander V. Frolov
> --------------------
>
> JNaudin509@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Dear All,
> >
> > You will find an interesting update in my web site at:
> > http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/newseg.htm
> >
> > Proposed New SEG Type Design  by Dave Squires
> > ========================
> >
> > This design is based on the ExBxS relationship where the Poynting S-vector
> > imbalance causes and sustains the motion of the rollers.
> > It is an extension of Jean-Louis Naudin's PFT MK2 high voltage capacitive
> > electrostatic motor.
> > Instead of the center ring rotating the rollers move around the ring using
> > the same S-vector force. The B-field comes from the magnets. The E-field
> > comes from the pre-stressed and precharged dielectric (electret). A slight
> > movement of the rollers should get them moving and accelerating. No special
> > magnetic patterns are required if the ExBxS vector relationship is valid as
> > proven by the PFT MK2 motor.
> > This has not been built and tested yet. It is only a design proposal based on
> > current findings and experiments done by Jean-Louis Naudin.
> > Dave Squires - 9-27-99
> > ----------------
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Jean-Louis Naudin
> > Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
> > Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm
>
> --
> http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
> ICQ 43757451



--
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
ICQ 43757451




From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 29 01:20:10 1999
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References: 
		 <37F0CDD6.5C8A89D8@harti.com> <3.0.5.32.19990928204533.009d3640@inforamp.net> <37F1B674.793F8EBD@ghiocel.com>
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Dan, you are certainly right.... the smell is awful and it does seem to be worse
for those around the user of  DMSO, some say it smells like rotten cabbage,
a friend of mine said it smelled like 'dead chickens', I did notice a really foul
smell when
wearing it and sometimes it was almost too much, but the benefial effects are so
profound,
so amazing, well its beyond my ability to describe properly.  Plus its so
incredibly cheap!!!
I can't help but wonder if the combo of cayenne and DMSO made the smell worse?
But the dep heating of the muscles by the addition of cayenne was WONDERFUL.
Can DMSO be ingested?  Is that safe?  Anyone out there know? Your idea of the
toxins
being flushed, 'disolved' as being the cause of the stench makes a whole lot of
sense to me
and I was thinking along the same lines.  My thanks to all who provided feedback
into this!

One concern I have, is could there be any adverse side effects of using this
solvent we don't know about, ie long term effects?  I havent been able to find
anything along this line however....

Dan Ghiocel wrote:

> The bad part is that the person taking DMSO does not realize how bad the
> smell is.
> I have been asked by people around me, if I take anything special, but I
> could never detect any odor myself.
> Other than smell, I would not worry to much about any other side
> effects.
> I think most of them are just speculations.
> The irritation of the skin goes away quickly; if it stays, it is
> probably something
> toxic in the skin that had been flushed by the effect of the DMSO.
> Like hydrogen peroxide, DMSO seems to have effect only on toxins and
> sick or bad
> tissue, and the impact on the live, healthy tissue seem to be minimum.
> I am inclined to believe that the odour is coming from the combination
> of the
> DMSO with the toxins in the body, and not from the DMSO itself.
>
> Dan G.
>
> Colin Quinney wrote:
> >
> > I used a 90% solution of that stuff on my neck once, immediately after
> > receiving a painful whiplash. The DMSO came in a Roll-On type container and
> > I just kept using it until the pain went away. A couple of hours later my
> > breath really started to stink. The literature does not do justice to just
> > how badly. My wife and family asked me to move out and the cat ran away,
> > and I could not go into any public places for at least two days. When I



--
***********************************************************
Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret.
Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it,
don't wait for it, just... let it happen. -- Special Agent Dale
Cooper
...

======================================================================
Don J.S. Adams, Overseer and Registered Agent for
Domhnall C G N Adams - (Corporation Sole - Lawful Entity Name)

RAVE Communications

206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA
780-998-4066 Canada

http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave

alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com


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From: "Stefano Innocenti" 
To: , 
Subject: R: A new site for the "Testatika Machine"
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:23:24 +0200
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Sorry, Stefan

but it is not my site,I've found it through Yahoo...

regards, Stefano


-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: Stefan Hartmann 
A: freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; Stefano Innocenti

Data: martedì 28 settembre 1999 18.45
Oggetto: Re: A new site for the "Testatika Machine"


>
>
>Stefano Innocenti schrieb:
>>
>> Hi list,
>>
>> You can find it at:
>> http://utenti.tripod.it/~testatikmachine/introindex.htm
>>
>> Stefano
>
>
>Hi Stefano,
>
>did you build the Newman machine at:
>
>http://utenti.tripod.it/~testatikmachine/jwnssmg/index.htm
>
>??
>
>BTW, the link is wrong in your page !
>
>
>What are the passwords to access the MPEG movie files ?
>
>Regards, Stefan.
>
>--
>Hartmann Multimedia Service,
>Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
>Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
>email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
>http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 29 02:55:28 1999
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From: "Randy Hargraves" 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject:  Howard Johnson's PermMag Motor/Trever]
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 02:55:18 PDT
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Hi Trevor Sleath

Have you by chance seen the Magizine articale Back in 1980??

In about 1988 I tracked Johnson down.  At that time he was licenseing the 
rights for one year at a time, to make Johnson motors and you had to by all 
the parts from him .  in my oppinion at the time he had over burrened the 
patent.

when I tried to duplcate the Johnson motor Principle, I used supper
Magnets and I was never able to keep the magnets to stay in place.

and I got a lot of blood blisters, from them slapping to gather and a peace 
of flesh geting in between. in any casy intended to get weeker magnets that 
were managable.

Randy E Hargraves
Oklahoma City


>From: Trevmaniac@aol.com
>Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
>Subject: Re: [Fwd: Howard Johnson's PermMag Motor]
>Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 03:44:59 EDT
>
>I tried building a Howard Johnson type linear motor about 6 months ago.
>
>I created a curved magnet as follows:
>
>I stacked a bunch of 16 'latch' magnets together.  The magnet dimensions 
>were
>  1" x .75" x .25" with the N and S poles on the largest faces.
>
>I took small pieces of cardboard (about 1" x .5") and wedged a piece 
>between
>each magnet on ONE side of the stack only.  Thus creating a curved 
>assembly.
>
>I mounted the magnet assembly on a trolly on rails above a magnetic track.  
>I
>built the magnetic track using hacksaw blades (two across) for the steel
>base; and a stack of three latch magnets for each magnetic pole.
>
>RESULTS:
>I placed the trolly at one end of the track.  It accelerated sharply and 
>then
>coasted the rest of the way.  It met with magnetic braking at the other end
>of the track and it did not have enough momentum to travel beyond the end
>magnet.  I tried all kinds of adjustments to magnet curvature, magnet 
>height
>above track, track pole interval.  All to no avail.  No change in 
>performance.
>
>I also tried to start the trolly from a mid-point on the track.  Nothing at
>all.
>
>Granted, I did not have pointed ends on my curved magnet.  Nor did I spend
>$1800.
>
>If the patent office was duped by local acceleration at the START of the
>track, they are a lot more stupid that I thought.  Or did Jonhson's model
>accelerate the entire length of his track?
>
>Trevor Sleath
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 29 04:35:19 1999
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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:35:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty 
To: "phys-l@lists.nau.edu: Forum for Physics Educators" 
cc: sciclub-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Quantum Leap
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On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, John Cooper wrote:

>   Originally the emphasis of 'quantum jump' was on 'jump', the
> discontinuity in available values of the energy.

Speaking of which...  I got involved in a late night gab-fest with Dan Y.,
a local electrical engineer, regarding the modeling of atoms as
electrically short dipole resonator/antennas.  It's a classical/waves
atomic model, in other words.  He pointed out that if the "Q" of an atom
is high, then the time constant is long, and it takes far longer for the
atom to accumulate energy from the EM fields of the light waves.  If the
"Q" of the atom is infinite, then it cannot accumulate energy at all.

Huh.

When an atom intercepts a quantum of light, apparantly it does *not*
specifically behave as a classical resonator (well, at least the "Q" of
the capacitor/inductor could not be huge!)  Perhaps there is a
connection between infinite "Q" and the need for "quantum leaps."  Or,
when a macroscopic resonator is going into exponential growth as it
intercepts energy via the "Energy Sucking Antenna" process, perhaps the
infinite "Q" of the RLC circuit impacts the speed of such growth.

   BILL'S CRACKPOT THEORY: ENERGY-SUCKING ELECTRODYNAMICS
   http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/sukdynam.html

   ENERGY-SUCKING ANTENNAS
   http://www.amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html

((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 29 09:02:20 1999
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Colin Quinney 
Subject: Re: Amazing Discovery? DMSO ?
In-Reply-To: <37F1B1C1.24D4CB1B@telusplanet.net>
References: 
 <37F0CDD6.5C8A89D8@harti.com>
 <3.0.5.32.19990928204533.009d3640@inforamp.net>
 <37F1B674.793F8EBD@ghiocel.com>
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At 01:29 AM 09/29/99 -0500, Don wrote:
>
>One concern I have, is could there be any adverse side effects of using this
>solvent we don't know about, ie long term effects?  I havent been able to
find
>anything along this line however....

Hi Don,

An 18 month rash certainly seemed long term since it was uncomfortably
itchy almost every day. It is listed as a possible side effect, but there
was no discussion of it's duration.


Colin Quinney

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 29 11:10:57 1999
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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:10:42 -0700
From: "Robert Decker" 
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ATGroup as asked me to post this to the list. They have made a big return and are now dedicated to continued presence and support.

See them at;

http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/index.htm


Visit FindLaw at http://www.findlaw.com for free case law, web guide, and legal news, and get your free @JusticeMail.com address at http://www.justicemail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 29 13:53:57 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <25c1cdd1.2523d63c@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:53:16 EDT
Subject: Progress report, on site, building device
To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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I have updated my web site with drawings of device I am building at this 
time. I will keep you informed of progress. 
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte
 LaFonte Research site 
1   or  http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 29 14:08:04 1999
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Subject:
             Better Late (20 years), Than Never?
        Date:
             Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:02:56 +1200
       From:
             Millennium 
 Organization:
             Autononauts Aotearoa
         To:
             StarLeague 03 




Space Tourism's Boosters Start Countdown
Joel Glenn Brenner, Special to The Washington Post; 07-25-1999


    Like many who witnessed the glory and spectacle of the Cold War
space race, Robert Bigelow grew up devouring sci-fi novels, sketching
rockets in his schoolbooks and wondering when it would be his turn to
fly to the moon. Now, at 55, the Las Vegas multimillionaire still has
dreams of blasting into orbit--only he's going to do it in style.

  The owner of the Budget Suites of America hotel chain is
investing as much as $500 million of his real estate fortune to design
and build a 100-passenger luxury cruise ship that will permanently
orbit the moon, giving vacationers a week-long excursion they'll never
forget. For Americans waxing nostalgic about Apollo on the 30th
anniversary of the first moon landing, Bigelow may be the best chance,
however remote, of seeing lunar dreams fulfilled.

  "It's up to private enterprise to get the general public into
space in our lifetimes," Bigelow said in a weighty tone, as though he
alone were carrying this burden. "It is imperative that we create
user-friendly, market-driven projects like this one or it will never
happen."

  The Las Vegas native, who made his fortune developing apartment
complexes and mid-priced hotels throughout the Southwest, said he
realizes his vision is "highly experimental." But he also firmly
believes that he can succeed where NASA and other aerospace companies
have failed. "I know a lot more about aerospace than NASA knows about
business," he said, his voice brimming with confidence. "The
government's launch costs are outrageous; I can do it for
one-twentieth of what they're spending."

  The National Aeronautics and Space Administration's shuttle
program costs about $10,000 per pound and private launch companies
spend about $8,000 per pound to get their payloads into orbit, experts
said. At that price, Bigelow's $500 million is mere pocket change. But
if launch companies are able to develop less-expensive means of
orbital transportation, that per-pound cost could drop
dramatically--something Bigelow is counting on.

  More than a dozen private firms are currently trying to develop
reusable rockets that could potentially cut the payload cost to $1,000
per pound, maybe less. But so far, none of these rockets exists.

  "We're getting close, but we're still not there," said Thomas
Rogers, chief scientist for the Space Transportation Association. "If
the commercialization of space is ever going to take off, we're going
to have to overcome this barrier."

  Bigelow hopes the lure of his "cruise ship" idea will provide a
crucial incentive to reusable-rocket makers, which have been
struggling because of lack of capital. "I expect to provide [these
companies] with a market for their product," Bigelow said. "That, in
turn, should help them raise money to finish their plans."

  GARY C. HUDSON, president of Rotary Rocket Co., which is
developing a reusable single-stage rocket that is undergoing tests in
the Mojave Desert, called Bigelow "an angel" and likened him to the
royalty of the 1700s who privately sponsored seafaring voyages to the
Far East and the New World. "This is just the kind of boost we've been
waiting for," said Hudson, who plans to have his vehicle in commercial
service next year.

  Bigelow shrugs off such accolades. The extremely private real
estate mogul has always been interested in outer space and the
paranormal. He donated millions of dollars to the University of Nevada
at Las Vegas to fund a "consciousness studies" program and he
bankrolls the nonprofit National Institute for Discovery Science,
which researches such out-of-the-box concepts as creating interstellar
"wormholes" using nuclear explosions.

  But his new project, privately funded Bigelow Aerospace Co., is
about more than cosmic curiosity: It's about being at the vanguard of
the "dawning age of space tourism," as he puts it. It also reflects
these flush economic times. Vacationers are already paying tens of
thousands of dollars to climb Mount Everest or explore the Antarctic,
Bigelow points out.

  A journey into space would represent the ultimate tourist
destination, easily worth a few hundred thousand dollars per ticket.
Recent surveys on behalf of adventure travel companies have shown as
many as 10,000 people say they are willing to spend $1 million or more
for an experience in space.

  "This is the beginning of the future," he said matter-of-factly.
"It's people like me that are going to get the public into space --
not NASA, not some internationally sponsored space station."

  This assessment was echoed last week at a symposium in Houston
where more than 100 scientists, researchers and engineers--and even a
few former Apollo astronauts--met to discuss the future of the moon.
Virtually everyone at the conference agreed with Bigelow, saying it is
time to take the moon out of the government's hands and place it
squarely with the private sector. The idea of a lunar cruise ship was
met not with snickers but with a hearty "it's about time" sense of
relief.

  "This is not a pie-in-the-sky fantasy," insisted rocket
scientist Greg Bennett, who presented Bigelow's plans. "The technology
is there; the know-how is there. It's always been a matter of money
and now Bigelow is closing that gap."

  To be sure, Bigelow's $500 million investment will cover just a
fraction of the project's ultimate cost, even if launch costs drop
dramatically. But it is a serious enough commitment to make people
stand up and take notice, and Bigelow himself speaks as if money is
his last concern.

  "I'm not in this for the profit," he said. "I don't expect to
see any return for at least 15 years--if ever. This is all a big
experiment."

  But it's one the Las Vegas native is taking very much to heart.
"I'll put in more than [$500 million] if that's what it takes," he
said. "My only hope is that this company can be a catalyst for change,
that we can alter the way people view space and make everyone realize
that it's up to the private sector to make things happen."

  Just how much capital Bigelow can afford to invest is unclear.
The developer owns all of his companies outright--including the Budget
Suites hotel chain, which analysts estimate is worth about $600
million, and a number of large apartment complexes and other real
estate assets around Las Vegas worth about $400 million, according to
other Las Vegas developers.

  Further obscuring the picture, Bigelow has generally kept
himself out of the public spotlight; he has never been profiled by the
media or granted a face-to-face interview, and he declined to be
photographed for this story. He said he is only talking about his
aerospace plans because "there is a general need to educate the
public," not because he's seeking personal glory.

  But these are reasons, too, that he believes he'll be
successful. "The only shareholder I have to answer to is Mrs.
Bigelow," he said, only half joking. "There isn't a public company in
America that could take the risks I'm taking--I have no investors
breathing down my neck, no need for short-term profits," he continued.
"And if I say I'm going to do something, I do it."

  Evidence of "Mr. B's" commitment is everywhere, said Bennett, a
30-year aerospace veteran who left his job at Houston's Johnson Space
Center in April to become Bigelow's vice president of spacecraft
development. The company is already running full-page advertisements
in Space News and other publications to hire the researchers,
industrial engineers, architects and scientists who will try to turn
Bigelow's vision into reality.

  The company plans to break ground next year on its new Las
Vegas headquarters--a rocket-shaped building surrounded by a moat, "to
give it the impression of being on a launch pad," said Bennett. With
60,000 square feet set aside for building models and developing the
space ship, the production facility will rival those of aerospace
giants such as Lockheed Martin Corp. and Boeing Co.

  The cruise ship itself will be just as impressive. Though there
are no artist renderings yet, Bennett said he is designing a craft
equipped with artificial gravity and appointed with all the amenities
of an opulent ocean liner, complete with private bathrooms, bedrooms
and individual portal windows for viewing the earth, moon and planets.
Like a scene straight out of "The Jetsons," the cruise ship will also
contain an observation deck and gymnasium, a dining room with "real"
food and possibly even a means of allowing passengers to take a brief
walk in the cosmos.

  It all sounds a bit wacky, Bigelow admits. But Apollo astronaut
Buzz Aldrin, an ardent supporter of Bigelow's idea, gushes: "This is
completely within the realm of possibility. For 30 years we've been
waiting for a chance to go back to the moon. But it's never been a
matter of technology, only desire."

  "We need more Bob Bigelows," seconded Alan Binder, chief
scientist for NASA's Lunar Prospector mission, which last year
discovered evidence of water frozen in the moon's polar craters. "His
project alone could jump-start an entire lunar industry."

  A lunar orbiting cruise ship would undoubtedly be a ferociously
hungry beast, requiring thousands of rocket launches annually just to
keep it supplied with food, crew members and passengers--not to
mention clean linens and toilet paper. A commercial lunar base could
provide supplies such as fuel and water, said Binder. And while there
are bound to be many skeptics, Bennett, who has only been on the job
for two months, said he has absolutely no doubt that Bigelow's dreams
will come to fruition.

  Asked how he can be so certain, he smiled wryly and said, "This
isn't NASA," referring to the agency's endless bureaucracy. "We've got
the know-how, and he's got the money. It's a beautiful combination."

  Besides, Bennett quipped, "Robert Bigelow is the only man in
the world with his own pet rocket scientist."

__________

[And Aotearoa's Maori are the only native tribe on Earth -- to have
their own 'tame' rocket scientist?  MT]

. . . .




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To: "FREENRG-L" 
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Subject: Re: Barium Titanate to Solar Energy
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:18:56 +1200
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Hi Fred and Dave,

|=20
| >Did you or Jean-Louis revisit this circuit?
|=20
| No, Stuart Rae was going to do it with the varactor I picked out as =
best, a
| BB212 with > 20:1 capacitance ratio, but I don't recall him every =
giving any
| results. Did you ever do that test, Stuart?
|=20

Yes I remember I did try that. But for some reason, I never did get the =
input switching circuit operating correctly, and I "temporarily" =
abandoned it. The fault was not in the idea, but in my inept oscillator =
design. However, the BB212 board still lies in the bottom of a draw =
somewhere.=20

But I still think the concept is a "goer" though,  and being  parametric =
I can't see why it wouldn't work. I've an old patent around here =
somewhere that uses a simple motor driven capacitor in a resonant =
circuit to accomplish precisely the same thing, and I can't fault the =
theory in that. So why not use a varactor that isn't loaded by the =
output, when it changes capacitance at the appropriate frequency? The =
energy "in" requirement is constant, and completely separate from the =
oscillation energy of the tank.=20
On the other hand, I'm inclined to think simplistically.

|=20
| A couple of points:
| 1) All parametric amplifiers or transformers use C or L variations in =
the 20
| percent range rather than the enormous 300 percent range of your =
varactor,
| much less the 2000 percent of the BB212.  This is unknown territory =
and the
| math is beyond me on how to plot out regions of stability in these =
levels of
| C variation.  They are never used. It may well be that a much lower C
| variation would be more stable.  Normally the "same freq" output is =
not
| seen, only the 2F, and this is proably due to the much larger C =
variations.
| 2) What was the POWER input of your negative bias based on your tests?
| 3) A square wave is more effective at driving parametrics than sine, =
this
| may be why it was hard to get the 2F going.
|=20

Which all sound like very good reasons to have another experimental go =
at the idea.

That is........when I've finished my experimental vegetable growing with =
"magnetised" water.
Completed building a new glass-house.
Re-built my high voltage power supply.
Finished a new twin regenerative BRS antenna circuit, that I'm going to =
try and resonate into a local vortex.
And fully tested another unusual device I've made, which is based on the =
Chancey Britten patent.

Gotta go !!!

SR

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
S. N. Rae,
Blenheim,     =20
New Zealand.
srae@mlb.ihug.co.nz




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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi Fred and Dave,


 


| 
| >Did you or Jean-Louis revisit this =
circuit?
|=20

| No, Stuart Rae was going to do it with the varactor I picked out =
as best,=20
a
| BB212 with > 20:1 capacitance ratio, but I don't recall him =
every=20
giving any
| results. Did you ever do that test, Stuart?
| =



 


Yes I remember I did try that. But for some reason, =
I never=20
did get the input switching circuit operating correctly, and I =
"temporarily"=20
abandoned it. The fault was not in the idea, but in my inept oscillator =
design.=20
However, the BB212 board still lies in the bottom of a draw somewhere.=20



 


But I still think the concept is a "goer" =
though,  and=20
being  parametric I can't see why it wouldn't work. I've an old =
patent=20
around here somewhere that uses a simple motor driven capacitor in a =
resonant=20
circuit to accomplish precisely the same thing, and I can't fault the =
theory in=20
that. So why not use a varactor that isn't loaded by the output, when it =
changes=20
capacitance at the appropriate frequency? The energy "in" requirement is =

constant, and completely separate from the oscillation energy of the =
tank.=20

On the other hand, I'm inclined to think =
simplistically.


 


| 
| A couple of points:
| 1) All parametric =
amplifiers=20
or transformers use C or L variations in the 20
| percent range =
rather than=20
the enormous 300 percent range of your varactor,
| much less the 2000 =
percent=20
of the BB212.  This is unknown territory and the
| math is =
beyond me on=20
how to plot out regions of stability in these levels of
| C =
variation. =20
They are never used. It may well be that a much lower C
| variation =
would be=20
more stable.  Normally the "same freq" output is not
| seen, =
only the=20
2F, and this is proably due to the much larger C variations.
| 2) =
What was=20
the POWER input of your negative bias based on your tests?
| 3) A =
square wave=20
is more effective at driving parametrics than sine, this
| may be why =
it was=20
hard to get the 2F going.
| 


 


Which all sound like very good reasons to have =
another=20
experimental go at the idea.


 


That is........when I've finished my experimental =
vegetable=20
growing with "magnetised" water.
Completed building a new=20
glass-house.
Re-built my high voltage power supply.
Finished a new =
twin=20
regenerative BRS antenna circuit, that I'm going to try and resonate =
into a=20
local vortex.
And fully tested another unusual device I've made, =
which is=20
based on the Chancey Britten patent.


 


Gotta go !!!


 


SR





S. N. Rae,
Blenheim,      
New =
Zealand.
srae@mlb.ihug.co.nz

=


 


------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BF0B2D.33E2D200--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 29 18:30:57 1999
Received: (from smartlst@localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA18949;
	Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:30:49 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:30:49 -0700
From: Trevmaniac@aol.com
Message-ID: 
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:30:34 EDT
Subject: Re: Howard Johnson's PermMag Motor/Trever]
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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In a message dated 9/29/99 2:56:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
randy_hargraves@hotmail.com writes:

<< Hi Trevor Sleath
 
 Have you by chance seen the Magizine articale Back in 1980??
 
 In about 1988 I tracked Johnson down.  At that time he was licenseing the 
 rights for one year at a time, to make Johnson motors and you had to by all 
 the parts from him .  in my oppinion at the time he had over burrened the 
 patent.
  >>
Yes.  I found a reprint on the web someplace.  The reporter claimed to have 
witnessed the linear motor/track in action with the buggy shooting off the 
track when it got to the end.  Mine wouldn't do that.  I don't remember any 
reports on the rotary motor.

Over burrened the patent?

Trevor 

From nathan__100@hotmail.com  Wed Sep 29 19:25:03 1999
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To: 
Subject: Fw:
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:24:35 -0700
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hey Bill!!!  =20
    Once again I am doing a science fair project, and I was wondering if =
you could give me some ideas what to do.  Last year I did a science fair =
project and you can find what I did on this web page.  Any way i used a =
couple of gallon size capacitors and a fairly large Van De Graaff =
generator, and a few other things.  I got first place at my school.  I =
am having a hard time thinking of a project that will get me first place =
again or at least second.  Do you have any ideas???  Also I was =
wondering if you could link my web page to your site.  Could you be real =
nice and do that for me.  Maybe I could get some more traffic then, =
since your site is awesome and gets so many hits.  Well I hope you get =
around to e-mailing me back real soon.  I know you must get sooooo many =
e-mails.  Thank you very much!!!!=20




ooops forgot to look up the url.  here it is.  =
http://www.qwikpages.com/headbangerblvd/exodus//Sciencereport.html

                                                                         =
                                               Nathan Perkins

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	charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









 


 


Hey Bill!!!   


    Once again I am =
doing a science=20
fair project, and I was wondering if you could give me some ideas what =
to=20
do.  Last year I did a science fair project and you can find what I =
did on=20
this web page.  Any way i used a couple of gallon size capacitors =
and a=20
fairly large Van De Graaff generator, and a few other things.  =
I got=20
first place at my school.  I am having a hard time thinking of =
a=20
project that will get me first place again or at least second.  Do =
you have=20
any ideas???  Also I was wondering if you could link my web page to =
your=20
site.  Could you be real nice and do that for me.  Maybe I =
could get=20
some more traffic then, since your site is awesome and gets so many =
hits. =20
Well I hope you get around to e-mailing me back real soon.  I know =
you must=20
get sooooo many e-mails.  Thank you very much!!!! 


 


 


 


 


ooops forgot to look up the url.  =
here it=20
is.  http://www.qwikpages.com/headbangerblvd/exodus//Sciencereport.html=



 


       =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
Nathan Perkins


------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BF0AB0.44D9A7A0--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 29 19:46:49 1999
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	Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:46:23 -0700
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Message-ID: <19990930025032.7822.rocketmail@web205.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:50:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brett Nichols 
Subject: The Secret can be Uncovered! Read this immediately.
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
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John Bedini is trying to get on the Jeff Rense show to
help all of those out who are trying to replicate his
devices.  What he needs however, is for a bazillion
folks to email Jeff Rense asking him to have John on
his radio show.  If you can't get the radio show, you
can get the transcript off www.sightings.com.  That is
if we succeed in getting enough requests to Jeff
Rense.  If anyone is serious about free energy, then
by all means go out to www.sightings.com and send a
quick e-mail. 
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 29 21:54:25 1999
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Message-ID: <37F2C33F.370B@intergate.bc.ca>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:56:15 -0400
From: Alik Shereshevsky 
Reply-To: alik@intergate.bc.ca
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (OS/2; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Amazing Discovery? DMSO ?
References: 
	 <37F0CDD6.5C8A89D8@harti.com>
	 <3.0.5.32.19990928204533.009d3640@inforamp.net>
	 <37F1B674.793F8EBD@ghiocel.com> <3.0.5.32.19990929120556.0089a380@inforamp.net>
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If I remember Keith Morey's explanations about DMSO & MSM
(Sulphur) , overdosing on it causes all the toxins to come out 
and may be the cause of foul smell. Anyway, I told him about
the current discussion and he will probably send some info
for collective consideration. You can e-mail him at:
supergoodstuff@apc.net

Alik S.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Sep 29 23:04:34 1999
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Old-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 02:04:28 EDT
Subject: I need to find 2" Iron ball, can you help!
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<< I need to find 2" Iron ball, you guys have any idea 
from where I can purchase such an item?
Any reply will be greatly appreciated, thanks.
Mehmet.>>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 30 09:05:48 1999
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Message-ID: <37F38A64.1DE5@cyberportal.net>
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:05:56 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" 
Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net
Organization: Nu Energy Horizons
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
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Subject: Internet Hoax!
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My contacts in high places tell me that the Denver
alledged Bio Attack within the next month is a hoax.

In in fact, the millennium will roll-over just as any
other New Year day has in the past years.

The shit will hit the fan sometime in 2002, when the
"Millennium bug" fears will have lost all of its' wind.
When the real thing finally hits people will have
sold off their generators and eaten up their stored
food supplies.

"Now you know the rest of the story."


         -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 30 09:53:26 1999
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Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:54:03 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" 
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Subject: Re: The radioactive need.
References: <000CBFE2.C21508@globalcrossing.com>
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martin_wolff@globalcrossing.com wrote:
> 
>      You stated that radiation wasn't the source the power, it's the
>      lightning strikes. The radioactive source was 'what ionized the
>      tubes'.


The message that I tried to convey is that there MAY be a way to 
tap into radiant energy sources without the use of radioactive
material. This avenue is not being explored but it is not yet a
done deal.


> 
>      You said that the 'star-mode' shows promise to replace the Moray
>      switching tube. I guess that since you are gearing up to sell them, it
>      still hold promise.


Yes, star-mode will replace the switching tubes. A step-up in
design if want to call it this.

> 
>      But, here we are still talking about alpha particles. Does the
>      star-mode have a radioactive source as one electrode or does the
>      star-mode have no initial radioactive materials?


The star-mode in the radiant energy receiver offers a very efficient
ion switch without needing radioactive material as used in Moray's
origional devices.


> 
>      The latest guess for the star-mode would be one electrode with an
>      alpha emitter and the other one with a low atomic weight metal (such
>      as lithium or beryllium). The electrodes are connected to a HV HF
>      supply and adjusted until an arc strikes up. Probably would work
>      better in a vacuum also. Any better?
> 
> 
>      Martin.


This is not correct... what is required for an efficient ion switch is
that a glow discharge is achieved... the detector/valve is yet another 
matter. So far, only detectors that have used radioactive materials have 
put out high amounts of power. There is a detector design that is 
revealed my new book release that will allow a prototype to function
without the radioactive material. However, so far, I have not acheived
a self-sustained mode with this latest design. This does not mean that
it
can not be acheived. There are formulas in a Patent that I obtained from
John Moreland that he had uncovered years back, that appear will allow
my radiant energy receiver designs to be self-sustaining. The reason I
mention John's name here is that I gave my word to him if I ever used
this
patent that credit would be given to him for finding this patent. I like
to think that I am a man of my word, therefore, I am giving John
Moreland
credit for this patent find. I have not had the resources to try these
formulas in my prototypes to date. If I sell enough books the proceeds
will
go into buying the required materials. This patent could very contain
the
formulas for a radiant energy receiver that does not require feared
radioactive
materials. I must however warn that all of the formulas contain
neodymium.
Neodymium contains 23.9% Nd-144 which is an alpha emitter. You would not
know that this material is radioactive because the alphas are self
absorbed
and radiation detectors will not register these emissions. I often
wonder if
these "over-unity" motors using neodymium magnets are getting their
excess
power from this source.


           -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 30 10:08:22 1999
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Message-ID: <37F39913.230C@cyberportal.net>
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:08:35 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" 
Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net
Organization: Nu Energy Horizons
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Nu Energy Horizons - http://www.nuenergy.org

martin_wolff@globalcrossing.com wrote:
> 
>      You stated that radiation wasn't the source the power, it's the
>      lightning strikes. The radioactive source was 'what ionized the
>      tubes'.


The message that I tried to convey is that there MAY be a way to 
tap into radiant energy sources without the use of radioactive
material. This avenue IS being explored but it is not yet a
done deal.


> 
>      You said that the 'star-mode' shows promise to replace the Moray
>      switching tube. I guess that since you are gearing up to sell them, it
>      still hold promise.


Yes, star-mode will replace the switching tubes. A step-up in
design if want to call it this.

> 
>      But, here we are still talking about alpha particles. Does the
>      star-mode have a radioactive source as one electrode or does the
>      star-mode have no initial radioactive materials?


The star-mode in the radiant energy receiver offers a very efficient
ion switch without needing radioactive material as used in Moray's
original devices.


> 
>      The latest guess for the star-mode would be one electrode with an
>      alpha emitter and the other one with a low atomic weight metal (such
>      as lithium or beryllium). The electrodes are connected to a HV HF
>      supply and adjusted until an arc strikes up. Probably would work
>      better in a vacuum also. Any better?
> 
> 
>      Martin.


This is not correct... what is required for an efficient ion switch is
that a glow discharge is achieved... the detector/valve is yet another 
matter. So far, only detectors that have used radioactive materials have 
put out high amounts of power. There is a detector design that is 
revealed in my new book release that will allow a prototype to function
without the radioactive material. However, so far, I have not acheived
a self-sustained mode with this recent design. This does not mean that
it can not be acheived. There are formulas in a Patent that I obtained 
from John Moreland that he had uncovered years back, that appear will 
allow my radiant energy receiver designs to be self-sustaining. The 
reason I mention John's name here is that I gave my word to him if I 
ever used this patent that credit would be given to him for finding 
this patent. I like to think that I am a man of my word, therefore, I 
am giving John Moreland credit for this patent find. I have not had the 
resources to try these formulas in my prototypes to date. If I sell
enough 
books the proceeds will go into buying the required materials. This
patent 
could very well contain the formulas for a radiant energy receiver that 
does not require feared radioactive materials. I must however point out
that all of the formulas contain neodymium. Neodymium contains 23.9%
Nd-144 
which is an alpha emitter. You would not know that this material is 
radioactive because the alphas are self absorbed and radiation detectors 
will not register these emissions. I often wonder if these "over-unity"
motors 
using neodymium magnets are getting their excess power from this source,
as
John Moreland has speculated. Yes, I will give John credit for this one
too.
However, in my own defense, I will also point out that what John has
publically
released as his own research, other than the two credits given in this
post,
has been a result of information that he had gleaned from me over the
years.
I do not wish to degrade John Moreland in any way, shape, or form. I
just want
the record to be straight.


           -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 30 11:27:01 1999
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Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:25:27 -0700
From: "Robert Decker" 
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Bruce! I do hope that you are correct and a lot can change between 2000 and 2002, although I must disagree in that there are groups out there which plan on using 2000 as an excuse to justify their own cause, our wonderful government not withstanding.

We will not have any serious Y2K (read computer) problems that would cause serious problems, but these groups seem on a deadhead course to 2000 and making hell for us all.

--

On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:05:56   Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
>My contacts in high places tell me that the Denver
>alledged Bio Attack within the next month is a hoax.
>
>In in fact, the millennium will roll-over just as any
>other New Year day has in the past years.
>
>The shit will hit the fan sometime in 2002, when the
>"Millennium bug" fears will have lost all of its' wind.
>When the real thing finally hits people will have
>sold off their generators and eaten up their stored
>food supplies.
>
>"Now you know the rest of the story."
>
>
>         -Bruce A. Perreault
>
>


Visit FindLaw at http://www.findlaw.com for free case law, web guide, and legal news, and get your free @JusticeMail.com address at http://www.justicemail.com


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 30 12:42:15 1999
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From: Pepthewep@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:41:29 EDT
Subject: Re: Internet Hoax!
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What is the "Denver Bio-attack"?  Barb c.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 30 13:01:32 1999
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From: "Trev" 
To: 
References: 
Subject: Re: Howard Johnson's PermMag Motor
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:06:26 +0100
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Hi folks,
I have a copy of the article and some other info on the JMM, If anyone wants
a copy I'll send it to them zipped.
Trev.

----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 1999 2:30 AM
Subject: Re: Howard Johnson's PermMag Motor/Trever]


> In a message dated 9/29/99 2:56:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> randy_hargraves@hotmail.com writes:
>
> << Hi Trevor Sleath
>
>  Have you by chance seen the Magizine articale Back in 1980??
>
>  In about 1988 I tracked Johnson down.  At that time he was licenseing the
>  rights for one year at a time, to make Johnson motors and you had to by
all
>  the parts from him .  in my oppinion at the time he had over burrened the
>  patent.
>   >>
> Yes.  I found a reprint on the web someplace.  The reporter claimed to
have
> witnessed the linear motor/track in action with the buggy shooting off the
> track when it got to the end.  Mine wouldn't do that.  I don't remember
any
> reports on the rotary motor.
>
> Over burrened the patent?
>
> Trevor
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 30 14:08:37 1999
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Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:09:34 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" 
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References: <37F38A64.1DE5@cyberportal.net> <37F3CD46.30A0C90F@microtec.net>
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patrick tremblay wrote:
> 
> What makes you think the end of the world is near?


I never said that I thought the end was near.
2002 is right about the time that the one world
government will be put into full power. Is this
the end of the world?


       -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 30 15:55:37 1999
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Bruce -

> Is this
> the end of the world?

As we know it, and I feel fine.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 30 18:16:15 1999
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Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
> 
> My contacts in high places tell me that the Denver
> alledged Bio Attack within the next month is a hoax.
> 
> In in fact, the millennium will roll-over just as any
> other New Year day has in the past years.
> 
> The shit will hit the fan sometime in 2002, when the
> "Millennium bug" fears will have lost all of its' wind.
> When the real thing finally hits people will have
> sold off their generators and eaten up their stored
> food supplies.
> 
> "Now you know the rest of the story."
> 
>          -Bruce A. Perreault
  Whats going to happen in 2002?
  Ron

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Sep 30 20:31:30 1999
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Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:29:20 -0500 (CDT)
From: Zack Widup 
Subject: Re: Internet Hoax!
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On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, Rick Monteverde wrote:

> Bruce -
> 
> > Is this
> > the end of the world?
> 
> As we know it, and I feel fine.
> 
> - Rick Monteverde
> Honolulu, HI
> 

That's great!
It starts with an earthquake
Birds and snakes and aeroplanes...


Are we in a silly mood today or what?  :-)

Zack