From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 1 12:32:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA04421; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:30:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:30:59 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.159] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 23:15:14 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Oct 2000 06:15:14.0780 (UTC) FILETIME=[F67789C0:01C02B6E] Resent-Message-ID: <"VMnes3.0.-41.o3vrv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17005 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ok Charles, What I was getting at, was a problem that showed it self in class... One of my class mates simply added up all the components drop and did not allow for the other losses.. His circuit showed a greater loss then what he had on paper... The teacher was particularly cruel and made him find the mistake himself... So the fault was not with Kirchoff's Law at all... but with the students interpretation... That what I meant by "as written"... If you leave out the word "total" as my friend did then there are plenty perceived holes... I did not mean to amply that I found a flaw with the law... I just saw this as my friends problem in reverse... I suspect that he my not be allowing for the voltage input from the LED from ambient light... Timothy... >>kerkoffs law is not an absolute unless you take it as it is written... >So can you give me an example where Kirchhoff's law does not apply? >Charlie Ford >cjford1@yahoo.com >cjford1@swbell.net > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 1 17:34:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA19693; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:32:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:32:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000701c02c08$6557fe80$543dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:33:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"6dfMP.0.cp4.kUzrv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17006 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gentlemen; Tonight I talked at length with Dr. Faile re: his LED testing. Here are the highlights in no particular order: 1. Attn: Keith - Sam does indeed use the "break-out" method for measuring the individual circuit branches. However, he has also measured them with fixed resistors in place for each branch, up to 100 ohms. The current anomaly is still noticeable with these in place. I explained to Sam the concern over measurement technique with a d'Arsonval movement meter alone. 2. Attn: Timothy - Sam did, at my request run a test this afternoon where he put black electrical tape over the LEDs (he felt that foil would reflect light back into the junction). He says that he saw no change in current values, either as individual branches, or the total current (within the resolution of his meter) 3. Sam related some specific values for a test he ran this afternoon. He used two D- cell batteries connected to 6 Nichia blue GaN LEDs, all in parallel. Apparently without resistors. The current anomaly was even greater than with 4 LEDs, so whatever it's root cause, it becomes more pronounced with more branches. This was the set-up he did the tape off experiment on, as well. Using the break-out method, he measured 2.6mA, 1.3mA, 1.15mA, 1.4mA, 2.7mA, and 3.2 mA on the individual branches. Arithmetically, this would add up to 12.35mA (ideally). However, when the total current was measured at the battery, he saw a value of 5.8 mA. 4. Apparently, one of the most convincing reasons to pursue this paradox, according to Sam, is the observation that only GaN LEDs produce this effect at the current range disclosed. When GaAs green LEDs are substituted, the branch value total DOES equal the measured total current value within a percent or two. Sam went on to say that the GaAs LEDs showed the current paradox to a slight degree only down at current levels where illumination was barely visible, in the micro-amp to 10's of micro-amp range. SiC LEDs did not show the anomaly at any current level, nor did GaAs infra-red LEDs. I fancy that it is this GaN related factor that is one of the best clues to figuring this whole thing out. So anyway, thats the latest. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 1 18:53:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA30527; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 18:52:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 18:52:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp2.ihug.co.nz: Host 203-109-144-202.akl.ihugultra.co.nz [203.109.144.202] claimed to be ihug.co.nz Message-ID: <39D7E7A5.41500E27@ihug.co.nz> Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 14:40:53 +1300 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile References: <000701c02c08$6557fe80$543dee3f@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"diRO7.0.tS7.bf-rv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17007 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Your right, that only GaN's do this seems to suggest it isn't a measurement anomaly. Still I think it would settle one possible cause if he tried it with a single 100 ohm resistor connected to the battery. Anyway if this effect is correct what does it mean??? That there is some wave that exists in the branches created by the GaN's that is making it look like more current? Or that there actually is more current!?! Are they "space electrons" which appear in the branches but cancel out in the main trunk??? Or do they travel down the branches and just teleport back round? Do they travel unseen through the main trunk? Or is there the same current but it's effect is amplified??? (by means of the mysterious LED it amplifies the currents effect, but not once it rejoins the main trunk) Here is a crazy idea, If the effect is as it seems there is more current flowing through all the branches than through the main trunk, this could be used to create what would seem to be a separate current element. I uploaded an image here: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~antigrav/GaN.jpg If the current going one way is 5.8ma but the other direction is 12.35ma then you have an impossible circuit that could be used as a brushless DC motor or other neat and weird things... John Berry Nick Reiter wrote: > Gentlemen; > > Tonight I talked at length with Dr. Faile re: his LED testing. Here are the > highlights in no particular order: > > 1. Attn: Keith - Sam does indeed use the "break-out" method for measuring > the individual circuit branches. However, he has also measured them with > fixed resistors in place for each branch, up to 100 ohms. The current > anomaly is still noticeable with these in place. I explained to Sam the > concern over measurement technique with a d'Arsonval movement meter alone. > > 2. Attn: Timothy - Sam did, at my request run a test this afternoon where > he put black electrical tape over the LEDs (he felt that foil would reflect > light back into the junction). He says that he saw no change in current > values, either as individual branches, or the total current (within the > resolution of his meter) > > 3. Sam related some specific values for a test he ran this afternoon. He > used two D- cell batteries connected to 6 Nichia blue GaN LEDs, all in > parallel. Apparently without resistors. The current anomaly was even greater > than with 4 LEDs, so whatever it's root cause, it becomes more pronounced > with more branches. This was the set-up he did the tape off experiment on, > as well. Using the break-out method, he measured 2.6mA, 1.3mA, 1.15mA, > 1.4mA, 2.7mA, and 3.2 mA on the individual branches. Arithmetically, this > would add up to 12.35mA (ideally). However, when the total current was > measured at the battery, he saw a value of 5.8 mA. > > 4. Apparently, one of the most convincing reasons to pursue this paradox, > according to Sam, is the observation that only GaN LEDs produce this effect > at the current range disclosed. When GaAs green LEDs are substituted, the > branch value total DOES equal the measured total current value within a > percent or two. Sam went on to say that the GaAs LEDs showed the current > paradox to a slight degree only down at current levels where illumination > was barely visible, in the micro-amp to 10's of micro-amp range. SiC LEDs > did not show the anomaly at any current level, nor did GaAs infra-red LEDs. > I fancy that it is this GaN related factor that is one of the best clues to > figuring this whole thing out. > > So anyway, thats the latest. > > NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 1 20:16:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA30738; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:15:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:15:36 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001001221341.00c2fd90@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 22:17:20 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford In-Reply-To: <39D7E7A5.41500E27@ihug.co.nz> References: <000701c02c08$6557fe80$543dee3f@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"jFSNs1.0.2W7.Ot_rv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17008 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile OK.. Sounds like we need to run some parallel tests. Fire up the labs.... Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 1 21:22:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA06678; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 21:21:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 21:21:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200010020421.e924Lnw04293@home.karahalios.org> Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 21:21:49 -0700 Reply-To: Alex@Karahalios.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.337) From: Alex Karahalios To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v337) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id VAA06643 Resent-Message-ID: <"foAVB.0.5e1.Zr0sv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17009 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Xogen hydrogen from water patent The following came across the Hydrogen as Fuel mailing list. It's a link to a patent that is being developed by Xogen Power, Inc. in Canada. It looks rather promising. The patent is very detailed and could easily be reproduced to confirm or deny the clai ms. The patent may be found at http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?&pn=WO00000670A1&show_legal=1 The company that owns it and is developing a product is at http://www.xogen.com They have 2 demo streaming videos available at their site. The videos are not very extensive, but give a quick overview of their device in action. Basically the hydrogen is generated at a rate sufficient to drive a small IC engine (seems Mr. Dingle is not the only one developing this.) >From the patent we have the following statement: "The power supply in the present invention is required to provide a pulsed signal having only 12 volts at 300ma (3.6 watts). It has been found that an optimal amount of hydrogen and oxygen has been produced when the pulsed signal has mark-space ratio of 1 0:1 and a frequency of 10-250 KHz. Using these parameters, the prototype cell is capable of producing gas at a rate of 1 p.s.i. per minute. Accordingly, the cell of the present invention is capable of producing hydrogen and oxygen in a highly efficient m anner, quickly and with low power requirements." So then it take 3.6 watts to produce 1psi/min. They don't mention the size of the container, so we can't convert 1psi to amount of hydrogen produced. Can anyone else shed some light on this? Alex Karahalios From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 2 09:56:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA10454; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:55:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:55:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:53:45 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Lj1cy2.0.CZ2.6uBsv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17010 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 30 Sep 2000, Timothy Flytch wrote: > students interpretation... That what I meant by "as written"... If you leave > out the word "total" as my friend did then there are plenty perceived > holes... > > I did not mean to amply that I found a flaw with the law... The classic "flaw" is with AC and a single capacitor plate. There will be a current in the wire connecting to that plate, but no second wire exists. Maxwell plugged this hole by creating the "displacement current" concept. Conventional current flows into the wire connecting the capacitor plate, and "displacement current" flows out of the plate and through space. > I just saw this as my friends problem in reverse... I suspect that he my not > be allowing for the voltage input from the LED from ambient light... If his milliamp meter has one ohm or ten ohms series resistance, then inserting the meter into the circuit will change all the currents. He needs four meters: one for each LED, and a fourth one for the total current in the battery lead. On the other hand, if these LEDs are creating microwaves or something, inserting the meters might disrupt the effect. He'd need to use some sort of clamp-on DC hall effect current probe to measure the currents without touching the circuit. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 2 10:07:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA12584; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 10:06:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 10:06:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 10:06:00 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile In-Reply-To: <000701c02c08$6557fe80$543dee3f@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"GnKiD1.0.S43.E2Csv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17011 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 1 Oct 2000, Nick Reiter wrote: > 1. Attn: Keith - Sam does indeed use the "break-out" method for measuring > the individual circuit branches. However, he has also measured them with > fixed resistors in place for each branch, up to 100 ohms. The current > anomaly is still noticeable with these in place. I explained to Sam the > concern over measurement technique with a d'Arsonval movement meter alone. If the LEDs are creating high frequencies, then one can "talk" to the others and cause their currents to change when capacitive loads are connected. To test for this, Dr. Faile could insert his mA meter in one spot, then stick a small capacitor (like 0.1uF) across the meter leads, or across the LEDs, or across the battery. If the capacitor causes the DC measurements to change, then there's probably high-freq AC present. Some types of diodes have a small negative-resistance segment on their voltage/current curve, and they will generate AC if a resonator is provided. Short wires can act like UHF or microwave resonators. However, this happens with specialized zener diodes (Gunn diodes) being reversed biased. I don't know of there are any microwave-generator diodes which are designed to oscillate when forward biased. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 11:22:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA08138; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:21:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:21:02 -0700 From: dave.tingley@juno.com To: Alex@Karahalios.org Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, energy21@listbot.com Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:54:13 -0400 Subject: Re: [FG]: Xogen hydrogen from water patent Message-ID: <20001003.125421.303.2.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-7,9-16,18-45 Resent-Message-ID: <"81jV5.0.w-1.EEYsv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17012 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thanks, Alex. This looks real interesting. I get the impression that this is much more likely be the real deal at least from the aspect of they aren't trying to sell plans, but are going straight to licensing and manufacturing as one would assume somebody would do if they really had something as opposed the the many charlatans selling recycled patents. Dave On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 21:21:49 -0700 Alex Karahalios writes: > The following came across the Hydrogen as Fuel mailing list. It's a > link to a patent that is being developed by Xogen Power, Inc. in > Canada. It looks rather promising. The patent is very detailed and > could easily be reproduced to confirm or deny the claims. > > The patent may be found at > > http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?&pn=WO00000670A1&show_legal=1 > > The company that owns it and is developing a product is at > > http://www.xogen.com > > They have 2 demo streaming videos available at their site. The > videos are not very extensive, but give a quick overview of their > device in action. Basically the hydrogen is generated at a rate > sufficient to drive a small IC engine (seems Mr. Dingle is not the > only one developing this.) > > From the patent we have the following statement: > > "The power supply in the present invention is required to provide a > pulsed signal having only 12 volts at 300ma (3.6 watts). It has been > found that an optimal amount of hydrogen and oxygen has been > produced when the pulsed signal has mark-space ratio of 10:1 and a > frequency of 10-250 KHz. Using these parameters, the prototype cell > is capable of producing gas at a rate of 1 p.s.i. per minute. > Accordingly, the cell of the present invention is capable of > producing hydrogen and oxygen in a highly efficient manner, quickly > and with low power requirements." > > So then it take 3.6 watts to produce 1psi/min. They don't mention > the size of the container, so we can't convert 1psi to amount of > hydrogen produced. Can anyone else shed some light on this? > > Alex Karahalios From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 11:48:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA17526; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:47:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:47:22 -0700 Message-Id: <200010031847.e93IlEI16678@home.karahalios.org> Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:47:14 -0700 Reply-To: Alex@Karahalios.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.337) From: Alex Karahalios To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v337) Subject: Re: [FG]: Xogen hydrogen from water patent Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id LAA17497 Resent-Message-ID: <"mz5kB3.0.kH4.vcYsv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17013 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, at 09:54 AM, dave.tingley@juno.com wrote: > I get the impression that this > is much more likely be the real deal at least from the aspect of they > aren't trying to sell plans, but are going straight to licensing and > manufacturing as one would assume somebody would do if they really had > something as opposed the the many charlatans selling recycled patents. > The beauty of this is that there are "free plans" in the form of a detailed patent application. So we have the best of both worlds. My only concern is that the amount of power required to generate the hydrogen far exceeds the energy derived from the hydr ogen. I have a copy of the patent as a 1MB PDF file. If there is a repository for such things, I'd be happy to upload it (sure beats trying to download 34 separate images.) Alex Karahalios From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 12:23:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA21365; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:20:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:20:56 -0700 (PDT) From: dave.tingley@juno.com To: Alex@Karahalios.org Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:19:57 -0400 Subject: Re: [FG]: Xogen hydrogen from water patent Message-ID: <20001003.151959.401.0.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-8,10-39 Resent-Message-ID: <"2FM_z1.0.WD5.I6Zsv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17014 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I downloaded the 34 separate images, I think I would rather have the pdf. I didn't see anywhere that they gave a hydrogen output other than 1psi which didn't really mean anything. 3.6 watts input isn't much. I would like to try it and see the input to output ratio for myself. If 3.6 watts makes enough gas to run that briggs and stratton engine you ought to be able to do something useful with that. Dave On Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:47:14 -0700 Alex Karahalios writes: > On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, at 09:54 AM, dave.tingley@juno.com > wrote: > > > I get the impression that this > > is much more likely be the real deal at least from the aspect of > they > > aren't trying to sell plans, but are going straight to licensing > and > > manufacturing as one would assume somebody would do if they really > had > > something as opposed the the many charlatans selling recycled > patents. > > > The beauty of this is that there are "free plans" in the form of a > detailed patent application. So we have the best of both worlds. My > only concern is that the amount of power required to generate the > hydrogen far exceeds the energy derived from the hydrogen. I have a > copy of the patent as a 1MB PDF file. If there is a repository for > such things, I'd be happy to upload it (sure beats trying to > download 34 separate images.) > > Alex Karahalios > > ============================================ dave.tingley@juno.com http://dave_tingley.tripod.com The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 13:56:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA01642; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:56:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:56:08 -0700 Message-ID: From: "McCurdy, Dennis" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:54:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Resent-Message-ID: <"bkPMO2.0.QP.eVasv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17015 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Coast to Coast Program Just as a point of interest for members of this group, there is a program tonight on Coast to Coast AM, with Mike Siegel, featuring Nick Begich. The topics of discussion include HAARP, Telsa Technologies, and science in the next millennium. You can check out http://www.artbell.com for details. _____________________________________________________ Dennis L. McCurdy (dennis.mccurdy@hboc.com) McKessonHBOC Advanced Laboratory Group From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 14:34:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA16072; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:33:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:33:43 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Xogen hydrogen from water patent Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 08:33:02 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <200010031847.e93IlEI16678@home.karahalios.org> In-Reply-To: <200010031847.e93IlEI16678@home.karahalios.org> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA16021 Resent-Message-ID: <"qa6im1.0.1x3.t2bsv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17016 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Alex Karahalios's message of Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:47:14 -0700: [snip] >The beauty of this is that there are "free plans" in the form of a detailed patent application. So we have the best of both worlds. My only concern is that the amount of power required to generate the hydrogen far exceeds the energy derived from the hyd rogen. I have a copy of the patent as a 1MB PDF file. If there is a repository for such things, I'd be happy to upload it (sure beats trying to download 34 separate images.) > >Alex Karahalios Based on the "typical" dimensions specified in the patent, I did a quick calculation of the hydrogen power, and it worked out at about 12 times the electrical power. I suspect however that further power production takes place in the engine, so that the output of the engine itself could be even higher. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 14:38:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA10431; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:36:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:36:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Xogen hydrogen from water patent Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 08:35:54 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <86kkts4g53gsfhnpv1h89fh2nudrbs8bn8@4ax.com> References: <20001003.151959.401.0.dave.tingley@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20001003.151959.401.0.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id OAA10385 Resent-Message-ID: <"-TcDM3.0.tY2.b5bsv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17017 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to dave.tingley@juno.com's message of Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:19:57 -0400: >I downloaded the 34 separate images, I think I would rather have the pdf. >I didn't see anywhere that they gave a hydrogen output other than 1psi >which didn't really mean anything. 3.6 watts input isn't much. I would >like to try it and see the input to output ratio for myself. If 3.6 watts >makes enough gas to run that briggs and stratton engine you ought to be >able to do something useful with that. [snip] When you duplicate this, first make sure to actually use tap water (not distilled), the difference could be all important. Second, measure the exhaust of the engine for radioactivity while it's running. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 14:42:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA21920; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:41:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:41:20 -0700 Message-ID: <001d01c02d83$211cdfc0$c57b3b8e@robone> From: "Rob Polley" To: , References: <200010031847.e93IlEI16678@home.karahalios.org> Subject: Re: [FG]: Xogen hydrogen from water patent Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:44:38 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Resent-Message-ID: <"-Fdjp.0.LM5.0Absv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17018 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I have no doubt that this is indeed the real thing. I live in the same city these folks are located in. The company they are in joint venture with is a legitimate oil and gas company, and the stocks are trading very actively at the moment. The video of the Premier of the province is valid, it is interesting to note that the principal industry here is the oil and gas industry. To have the premier of the province offering congratulations to Xogen is a major win! The patent application is very detailed, but I suspect there may be some information withheld.... to quote from the FAQ on their website... Question: Will Xogen Power Inc. provide full disclosure of the Technology? Answer: No, the specific details of the Technology are proprietary to Xogen Power Inc. and are subject to the strictest confidentiality. That lawnmower engine was rated at 3 HP..... no telling if it was putting out that horsepower but if it is even close that is a pretty neat accomplishment with tap water and 3.6 watts of elecrtricity! > On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, at 09:54 AM, dave.tingley@juno.com wrote: > > > I get the impression that this > > is much more likely be the real deal at least from the aspect of they > > aren't trying to sell plans, but are going straight to licensing and > > manufacturing as one would assume somebody would do if they really had > > something as opposed the the many charlatans selling recycled patents. > > > The beauty of this is that there are "free plans" in the form of a detailed patent application. So we have the best of both worlds. My only concern is that the amount of power required to generate the hydrogen far exceeds the energy derived from the hydrogen. I have a copy of the patent as a 1MB PDF file. If there is a repository for such things, I'd be happy to upload it (sure beats trying to download 34 separate images.) > > Alex Karahalios > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 15:04:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA12662; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000701c02d85$a99b4740$633dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 18:02:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"xgulU1.0.l53.cTbsv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17019 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi, all; > If the LEDs are creating high frequencies, then one can "talk" to the > others and cause their currents to change when capacitive loads are > connected. To test for this, Dr. Faile could insert his mA meter in one > spot, then stick a small capacitor (like 0.1uF) across the meter leads, or > across the LEDs, or across the battery. If the capacitor causes the DC > measurements to change, then there's probably high-freq AC present. ********** This is actually something we've suspected. A year or two ago, I did scope out one of the earlier version GaNs, and it did seem to have some indeterminant HF hash across it. No-one at Nichia USA could tell Sam anything about it when he posed it to them. The capacitor across the meter input is a great idea. I will pass it on to Sam tonight or tomorrow. > Some types of diodes have a small negative-resistance segment on their > voltage/current curve, and they will generate AC if a resonator is > provided. Short wires can act like UHF or microwave resonators. However, > this happens with specialized zener diodes (Gunn diodes) being reversed > biased. I don't know of there are any microwave-generator diodes which are > designed to oscillate when forward biased. ******The GaNs are a weird device, according to a couple of the solid state physicists at work. Nichia has had GaN UV LEDs out for about 1 year. I have one, and it is a neat item, providing small area "black-light" for flourescence. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 15:11:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA03089; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:10:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:10:39 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <66.7f8baab.270bb320@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 18:09:36 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"vTvro2.0.0m.Vbbsv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17020 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: I produced magnetic field, no back emf See web page> http://members.aol.com/vettenrr/LaFonteResearch.htm Hi all, I used my rotor to produce a magnetic field around a coil with ferrite core by rotating one of the rotors magnets in line with the coil. The coil circuit is closed. Any " back emf " was overcome by the other magnet being pulled to the other coils core. The power to move the rotors magnet into place with the first coil came from the opposite rotor magnet being pulled to the other coil's ferrite core. This coil had an open circuit. Now how do I get the magnets "unlocked" from the coils ferrite core? This is simple, I pulse DC in the series circuit shown on the web page. Forces are equal but opposite and the magnets are rotated out with very little work. Also the pulse did not have to build up a magnetic field around the first coil because the mechanical work done by the second rotor magnet had already done that. This magnetic field collapse at the end of the pulse is free energy. Thanks, Butch LaFonte LaFonte Research Group From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 15:46:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA23356; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:46:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:46:17 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 18:45:41 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"YhKNr2.0.ni5.u6csv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17021 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Web page needs updating Hi all, The LaFonte Research Group web page is not current. The member who maintains the site is out of town and site should be updated soon. New timing device and circuit additions will be posted then. Also, wood version of design will be posted then plus audio/video of basic "Magnetic Equilibrium". If you have any questions please email or call 1-205-699-5364 central time zone, USA Thanks, Butch LaFonte LaFonte Research Group From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 19:50:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA16455; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 19:50:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 19:50:08 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001003214127.00c3a300@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 21:51:50 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Xogen hydrogen from water patent In-Reply-To: <20001003.151959.401.0.dave.tingley@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"u8jKb3.0.x04.Uhfsv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17022 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I have seen an electrolyzer run a B&S 10HP upright The funny part is that the inventor claimed that his 200W input was providing 10HP out (774KW) of course it fell on its face once a load was attached to the motor. I have to say I am plugging for the OU but when it comes to reality I stand with the skeptics. I wonder just how much gas he is producing with 300ma. The current is what produces the gas and from what I have seen with electrolyzers 12V source is down right waistfull. Best performance I ever saw was at 1.5V. At 03:19 PM 10/3/00 -0400, you wrote: >I downloaded the 34 separate images, I think I would rather have the pdf. >I didn't see anywhere that they gave a hydrogen output other than 1psi >which didn't really mean anything. 3.6 watts input isn't much. I would >like to try it and see the input to output ratio for myself. If 3.6 watts >makes enough gas to run that briggs and stratton engine you ought to be >able to do something useful with that. > >Dave > >On Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:47:14 -0700 Alex Karahalios >writes: > > On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, at 09:54 AM, dave.tingley@juno.com > > wrote: > > > > > I get the impression that this > > > is much more likely be the real deal at least from the aspect of > > they > > > aren't trying to sell plans, but are going straight to licensing > > and > > > manufacturing as one would assume somebody would do if they really > > had > > > something as opposed the the many charlatans selling recycled > > patents. > > > > > The beauty of this is that there are "free plans" in the form of a > > detailed patent application. So we have the best of both worlds. My > > only concern is that the amount of power required to generate the > > hydrogen far exceeds the energy derived from the hydrogen. I have a > > copy of the patent as a 1MB PDF file. If there is a repository for > > such things, I'd be happy to upload it (sure beats trying to > > download 34 separate images.) > > > > Alex Karahalios > > > > > > >============================================ >dave.tingley@juno.com >http://dave_tingley.tripod.com >The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to >the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2 Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 20:23:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA26124; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 20:23:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 20:23:26 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001003215357.00c39990@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 22:25:10 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile In-Reply-To: <000701c02d85$a99b4740$633dee3f@default> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"wVPxc2.0.5O6.kAgsv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17023 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com OK... here are some results. I used 3 of the little dudes in parallel and re-produced (I think) the anomaly I was unable to acquire the exact model number. Off the shelf at Fry's electronics looked like a pretty good match. and I have them in grounded copper selves to prevent the devices from directly effecting each other. There is a sweet spot at about 2.6ma where the junctions begin to produce noise (about 250MHz freebird of about 40mv p-p which is consistent with my lead lengths) my total current measured is about 6% lower then my total current calculated. This is real weird folks. I did NOT use the breakout method to measure the branch current. I used all 4 of my DMMs at a source voltage of about 2.9 (using the meter on the supply) I measured 3.01ma + 2.54ma + 2.66ma = 8.21 7.74ma measured at the power supply Even considering the AC content there is no explanation for the total branch current to exceed. the source. Because my meters are only considered reliable up to 100KHz I will be examining them to see what effect the AC content has on the accuracy (this will take some time) Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 4 00:37:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA20959; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:36:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:36:50 -0700 Message-ID: <000201c02d6a$b5f50190$f50110ac@NYPENTIUM> From: "toby" To: References: Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:39:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Resent-Message-ID: <"E9sNd1.0.G75.Iujsv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17024 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: UPDATE FROM GERMANY Dear Evan ! This is Toby in Norway again ! When I read about Hans in Germany, I would also like to buy such a machine ! HOW MUCH IS PRICE TO ME ???? I would like to say the same in Norway, as Hans said in Germany !!!!!! But PRICE ? Effect in Watts ? ---- And Evan, the 31.august I sent You usd 80,- for the book "Joseph Newman Energy Machine " I have the post receipt here . That has no. 55908no, and is stamped 31.8.00 Did You till Now get the 80 usd ??? Have You sent the book ? Rgds Stirling GEN Norway Torbj. Homelien Vargveien 50 N-2030 NANNESTAD Norway ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????----- Original Message ----- From: "Evan Soule" To: Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 9:30 PM Subject: [FG]: UPDATE FROM GERMANY > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE --- August 11, 2000 > > To: The Good People of the World! > > I just received a telephone call from Hans (in Germany), an Electrical > Engineer who purchased COLLECTIBLE ENERGY MACHINE UNIT #4. Hans excitedly > told me that: > > "I have your 4th Unit operating at 1,000 RPMs with a transformer connected > to capacitors and then to your 4th Unit. There is MORE power coming from > the capacitors that is going into them from the transformer!" > > Power to the People! > > [Signed] > Joseph Westley Newman > > (480) 657-3722 > www.josephnewman.com > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 4 03:45:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA14657; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 03:44:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 03:44:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001b01c02df0$30a69b80$1c3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <4.2.0.58.20001003215357.00c39990@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 06:45:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"vEa9G3.0.wa3.Uemsv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17025 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Very interesting! Thank you for giving it a try. According to Sam, the more LEDs one puts in parallel, the greater the effect. Sam reports that there is another correspondent of his in Fla. (an EE) who has been working with sets of a hundred or more, for signalling or something, and they have been running into some extremely weird results, though no specifics. I will relay all of this to SPF. NR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Ford" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 11:25 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile > OK... here are some results. > > I used 3 of the little dudes in parallel and re-produced (I think) the anomaly > I was unable to acquire the exact model number. > > Off the shelf at Fry's electronics looked like a pretty good match. and I > have them in grounded copper selves to prevent the devices from directly > effecting each other. > > There is a sweet spot at about 2.6ma where the junctions begin to produce > noise (about 250MHz freebird of about 40mv p-p which is consistent with my > lead lengths) my total current measured is about 6% lower then my total > current calculated. This is real weird folks. > > I did NOT use the breakout method to measure the branch current. I used > all 4 of my DMMs > at a source voltage of about 2.9 (using the meter on the supply) I measured > > 3.01ma + 2.54ma + 2.66ma = 8.21 > 7.74ma measured at the power supply > > Even considering the AC content there is no explanation for the total > branch current to exceed. the source. Because my meters are only > considered reliable up to 100KHz I will be examining them to see what > effect the AC content has on the accuracy (this will take some time) > > > > > Charlie Ford > cjford1@yahoo.com > cjford1@swbell.net > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 4 12:05:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA18783; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:05:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:05:00 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 15:04:55 -0400 Message-Id: <200010041904.PAA29469@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile Resent-Message-ID: <"0GPqv2.0.Ob4.Sztsv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17026 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Nick writes: >Very interesting! Thank you for giving it a try. According to Sam, the >more LEDs one puts in parallel, the greater the effect. Sam reports that >there is another correspondent of his in Fla. (an EE) who has been working >with sets of a hundred or more, for signalling or something, and they have >been running into some extremely weird results, though no specifics. > >I will relay all of this to SPF. > >NR If these "Gunn" diodes are the same as "tunneling" diodes, then they are suspected of being able to pick up and respond to brain waves, from what I understand. So far, the tests have been limited to using them for switching mechanisms by intent. I haven't read anything specific from the academic community, but have read a bit from the private researchers who have been willing to share to that effect. The diodes are supposedly more heavily doped, and in a given input regime will demonstrate a negative resistance mode. Where the energy is coming from or what type of energy it is, is difficult to say, since efforts have been made to shield them from normal EM. It would not be surprising that the effect would be greater with more diodes. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 4 14:42:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA07481; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:41:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:41:01 -0700 Message-ID: <001001c02e4b$42fd5f20$0364c8c8@mindspring> From: "John Lighton" To: References: <200010041904.PAA29469@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:37:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"y8KfM1.0.oq1.iFwsv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17027 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com If these "Gunn" diodes are the same as "tunneling" diodes, then they are suspected of being able to pick up and respond to brain waves, from what I understand. So far, the tests have been limited to using them for switching mechanisms by intent. Michael or other list members, Do you have more information on this? If so, some leads/links/references would be appreciated. John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 4 15:34:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA19829; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 15:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 15:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000b01c02e53$06e1d2c0$823dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <200010041904.PAA29469@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <001001c02e4b$42fd5f20$0364c8c8@mindspring> Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:32:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"4s4-B.0.gr4.00xsv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17028 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello, all: > If these "Gunn" diodes are the same as "tunneling" diodes, then they are > suspected of being able to pick up and respond to brain waves, from what I > understand. So far, the tests have been limited to using them for switching > mechanisms by intent. > > > Michael or other list members, > > Do you have more information on this? If so, some leads/links/references > would be appreciated. ********* Yes, I agree. Tunnelling diodes are just close enough to quantum weirdness that maybe they can be consciousness interactive. I've often wondered whether Josephson junctions are also. Maybe the GaN quantum well LEDs are along the same line. Wouldn't that be something. Now two other thoughts, both of which I will pass on to Sam as well: 1. If this effect indeed scales to really bizarre proportion, like total current only being like 10% of arithmetic sum of the device currents, then what would happen if you shined the light from all of those LED's into a high efficiency photovoltaic cell - like GaAs with an efficiency in the 20 or 30% range. I don't even normally allow myself to think those things, but oh my. You see where I am going with that... 2. I wonder if this is starting to indicate a coupling of chaotic systems that is producing order at some level. If these devices generate RF noise at certain forward currents, then these spectra might interact with each other in some way. If Charlie Ford still has his set up, why not try taking ratios of current with the LEDs different distances apart from each other. I will pass this on to Sam also. I have heard tell that ordered conditions arise from coupled chaotic systems, but only if the coupling is somewhat loose... NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 4 17:25:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA32651; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 17:25:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 17:25:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 17:23:41 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile In-Reply-To: <000b01c02e53$06e1d2c0$823dee3f@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"RWsr-2.0.3-7.lfysv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17029 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Nick Reiter wrote: > I have heard tell that ordered conditions arise from coupled chaotic > systems, but only if the coupling is somewhat loose... If anything can produce true entropy reversals, I'd expect to see it in coupled oscillators which have quantum effects involved. How do you spell that, Prigogine? Spontaneous ordering in nonequilibrium systems could contain "life energy" where the universe ramps itself back up at the same time that conventional thermodynamics is trying to cause "heat death." Anti-frictional braking where machines spin faster and faster while getting cold. Here's more coupled oscillators (swinging pendulums) with quantum effects (magnetising a steel ball.) The link came from JL Naudin's forum at http://www.egroups.com/jlnlabs/ Finsrud's perpetually moving sculpture http://overunity.terrashare.com/finsrud/index.htm But he has to fiddle with it every three months to keep it working? Not good for convincing the skeptic, because a battery bank could last several months and require a periodic trip back to the workshop. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 4 20:42:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA05889; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:42:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:42:05 -0700 Message-ID: <00f101c02e7c$715397a0$351afea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: "energy21" , Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:29:13 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"qQeUE2.0.oR1.CY_sv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17030 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Fw: the delaying potential..!! ] ----- Original Message ----- ADVANCED SPACE TRANSPORT SCIENCE] > Nikolay NOSKOV > Translated from Russian by Jury SARYCHEV > > see internet address: http://www.n-t.org/tpe/ng/yzp.htm > > "..Revealed by Gauss the phenomenon of a delaying potential - the fundamental law of a nature cover all sorts of interaction. And first of all it concerns gravitation. > > "It is natural, that the researchers, who have understood it, at once have begun to do attempts to find the law of graviodynamics. As for electromagnetic interaction Örsted H.C., Arago F., Ampere and Faraday retrieved the separate properties of electrodynamics by means of experiments. That allowed checking up its correctness. As for gravitation there was a unique observant fact discovered by Le Verrier U.J.J. in 1859 - anomalous offset of the Mercury's perihelion, equal 41" for one century. > > "Ritz W., Zöllner F., Tisserand F., Seegers C., Holzmüller G., Scheibner W., Levy M., Ljenar, Schwarzschild, Maxwell J.C. are the not complete list of the researchers trying to discover the law of graviodynamics. They represented physical schools of three states of Europe: England, France and Germany. The overwhelming majority of scientists, as well as those who discovered the laws of an electrodynamics, among which were Gauss, Weber, Clausius, Neumann F., Neumann C., Rimann, Grossmann and others, were from Germany. > > "Long time all attempts to create the law of gravitation with a delaying potential taking into account mechanism of interaction and giving correct value of anomalous offsets perihelia of planets, came to an end unsuccessfully. After several unsuccessful attempts to obtain of the law of graviodynamics, Maxwell has written, "Being unable to understand, how the medium can have such property, I can not advance further in this direction in searches of the reasons of gravitation". > > "But the researcher who has bypassed difficulties of modeling of the mechanism of interaction was found. He was Paul Gerber, the teacher from Stargard. He reasoned so: as the interaction is transmitted through the medium from a point to a point, therefore, velocity of a potential of interaction depends on properties of the medium and has final value. > > "The final value of velocity of interaction entails the lag of potential for bodies moving relatively to each other and interacting with each other. This lag of potential is distributed on all distance between bodies, and its value, in such case, is inversely proportional to velocity of a body..." > > happiness! > blanche > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 5 02:40:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA21120; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 02:39:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 02:39:58 -0700 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 05:39:51 -0400 Message-Id: <200010050939.FAA20913@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile Resent-Message-ID: <"szxOR3.0.v95.kn4tv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17031 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > >Hello, all: > >> If these "Gunn" diodes are the same as "tunneling" diodes, then they are >> suspected of being able to pick up and respond to brain waves, from what I >> understand. So far, the tests have been limited to using them for >switching >> mechanisms by intent. >> >> >> Michael or other list members, >> >> Do you have more information on this? If so, some leads/links/references >> would be appreciated. > >********* Yes, I agree. Tunnelling diodes are just close enough to quantum >weirdness that maybe they can be consciousness interactive. I've often >wondered whether Josephson junctions are also. Maybe the GaN quantum well >LEDs are along the same line. Wouldn't that be something. > > Now two other thoughts, both of which I will pass on to Sam as well: > >1. If this effect indeed scales to really bizarre proportion, like total >current only being like 10% of arithmetic sum of the device currents, then >what would happen if you shined the light from all of those LED's into a >high efficiency photovoltaic cell - like GaAs with an efficiency in the 20 >or 30% range. I don't even normally allow myself to think those things, but >oh my. You see where I am going with that... > >2. I wonder if this is starting to indicate a coupling of chaotic systems >that is producing order at some level. If these devices generate RF noise >at certain forward currents, then these spectra might interact with each >other in some way. If Charlie Ford still has his set up, why not try taking >ratios of current with the LEDs different distances apart from each other. >I will pass this on to Sam also. I have heard tell that ordered conditions >arise from coupled chaotic systems, but only if the coupling is somewhat >loose... > >NR > > >From what little I have read, the IN**** series is one of the tunnelling diodes. GE types start at 1N2939. You can get a IN22 out of a Klystron radar unit. I guess Textronix had them in some of their scopes as well. GE is selling one, the 1N2941, as a microwave detector, and there is supposed to be some info on that in the 5th edition of the GE transistor manual. That may even be online, I don't know. Here is an URL with a brief description and waveform. http://www.tpub.com/neets/book7/26a.htm This reference doesn't really say what the doping material is for these critters which is disappointment in an otherwise very good source of info. Dave Dameron seemed to think that they were Ge or GaA, not GaN, but I don't have any idea. Another interesting site is Gary Hawkins' work on the Fogal device. http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/fogal_device/ There was also message that came through here on Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:01:28 -0600 from a Don Adams that had a complete article from the BBC on a thought translation device that allowed paralyzed people to type with just their brains. It should be in the FreeNRG archives, but if not, let me know and I'll repost it. There was no technical information in it, but it did have the names of the scientists that were working on it, as well as their Universities. Fred Sparber posted this URL to the Vortex Group. http://www.vxm.com/Dejan.html but I still haven't had a look at it, so I don't know if it is even relevant. What intrigues me is that the street lamps outside my apartment building in Seattle used to go off nearly every time I went outdoors at night. Most of the time, it was just the lamp right by the door, but there were times when six blocks in both directions would go out, and it was always when I was in very deep thought or concentration. It would startle the heck out of me. I've always wondered what could do that, and it always seemed to me that there must be something in the photoelectric light detection units that was being fooled into thinking that I was a light source. I think now though, that perhaps there is a coupling frequency (very high) that mingles with or can interact with background radiation or push gravity radiation, and that the EM from my brain could have affected the solid state switching circuits on that particular brand of lamps if they contained any silicon with this kind of doping. Bill's suggestion about the oscillator being necessary may be true as well, and that would have been present, I suppose in the Hg vapor lamps. As you might know, I think that all plasma devices are damped oscillators that operate at very high frequencies. I don't think it is a high power effect, but it may be possible to use it as a brain wave radio receiver over short distances with at least some people anyway. Even at that, I would think that it would be a heck of a chore as to how to keep it tuned to someone like me for example. My brain isn't normal, I don't think. In thinking about this, it occurred to me that it may have correlations with the many Universe theories in that the brain may operate at numerous different frequencies simultaneously, gathering information, conversing with other beings, doing things that we can't comprehend on the physical plane, and generally sorting out the world that we all agree to accept as reality (well, the world that most of us accept as reality, anyway). The language center of our brain would operate at the speed of sound for example, because we generally think verbally at the same rate of speed that we speak, but other processing functions would happen at much greater speeds or much slower speeds as appropriate. Our agreed upon framework of time would be dependent upon our brains being in synchroniety, and that it may be possible to break that with training. I'm really going out on a tangent, but as you are well aware I'm sure, this is a rich and fascinating subject that lends itself to speculation that can best be described as Metaphysics. Everyone working in the field of energy will eventually confront this stuff, and generally they all go gaga for a time as all of their paradigms shift to some degree. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 5 07:59:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA07224; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 07:59:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 07:59:17 -0700 Message-ID: <001401c02edc$51691d60$0364c8c8@mindspring> From: "John Lighton" To: References: <200010050939.FAA20913@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 07:55:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"BsDop3.0.bm1.5T9tv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17032 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Quantum mind > > I don't think it is a high power effect, but it may be possible to use it as > a brain wave radio receiver over short distances with at least some people > anyway. [.....] > In thinking about this, it occurred to me that it may have correlations with > the many Universe theories in that the brain may operate at numerous > different frequencies simultaneously, gathering information, conversing with > other beings, doing things that we can't comprehend on the physical plane, > and generally sorting out the world that we all agree to accept as reality > (well, the world that most of us accept as reality, anyway). This is an area of research that is truly fascinating. In this connection, I would like to ask the Group's indulgence for the long post that I have included at the end of this letter. It is re-posted here from the Quantum Mind group (I would have pointed to an archive but I do not think that it is available). It describes the first experimental proof that conscious perception actually collapses the quantum wave function, or, in other words, that the mere act of observation forces an indeterminate quantum system into a known state. If validated, it may be one of the most important publications of this decade, if not this century. The emphasis in this paper is on the effect *on the mind* of the collapse of the wave function (as measured by electroencephalography); going the other way, i.e. transducing the mind's perception via the wave function collapse it causes in a quantum device, would be enormously interesting in its implications and practical applications. The folks who are interested primarily in free energy/OU might want to erase this post - it *is* rather long. John Experimental Evidence for Collapse of the Wavefunction in the Whole Human Brain By Mark Germine Von Neumann is generally credited with the idea that collapse of the quantum wavefunction occurs in human consciousness. An experimental protocol of collapse of the wavefunction in the brain and the related theory of consciousness have been outlined in detail in previously (see Experimental Protocol for Collapse of the Quantum Wavefunction, 1998, http://www.goertzel.org /dynapsyc). In the summer of 1994 I met with Henry Stapp to discuss the basics of this experimental model. Stapp agreed that a wavefunction represented by a quantumly random stimulus should collapse at the time of the first observation, and remain collapsed for subsequent observers. I argued that if so, such a process might be detected in brain electrical potentials (BEPs), uniquely in the first observer. This paper represents the first empirical validation of this notion. In my view the work described here tests the Stapp hypothesis, and also provides evidence for the mind/brain theory of Jason Brown, as well as for my own theories and ideas of quantum brain function, published beginning in 1989. The experiment entails some practical modifications of the protocol referred to above. A random quantum process is generated to provide a signal on an average of every six seconds. The event is processed as an absence or silence in the P300 paradigm (see reference), which occurs on the average of once in four regular tones or beeps. Each tone is separated by 1.5 seconds. The subject, who is otherwise isolated from the experimental setup, counts the absences. A first observer is able to see the absence event on the monitor of the electroencephalograph (EEG) one-second prior to its broadcast to the subject through headphones. The vertex scalp potential (Cz-A1) is recorded from the subject during each absence, with t = 0 being the time of the beep impacting on the eardrum. A computer in the EEG averaged the BEP profiles over time over a total of about 26 absent tones for each trial. These profiles are called event-related potentials or ERPs. The trials were alternated randomly, without the knowledge of the subject, between two conditions: 1) absence observed visually on the monitor one second prior to delivery to the subject by another subject, and 2) absence first observed by the subject. Four grand averages of about 360 recorded ERPs each were made for two different sets of data, each divided among the two conditions. The first conditio produced a great deal of "destructive interference" between different patterns occurring at different times, and its ERPs lacked clear electrical potential waveforms > on grand average. The second condition produced clear and reproducible waveforms on the two grand averages. Data for analyses were tabulated at intervals of 3 milliseconds (ms) over the time interval of zero to 450ms. Smoothing was done be computer by obtaining averages over the previous 3ms. Ignoring the possibility of telepathic communication of ERPs, which is remote, and which is virtually ruled out be existing experiments, any statistically significant difference in the ERP profiles in the two conditions would support the collapse of the wavefunction in the first observer, but not the second, as an active brain process. The two difference profiles between the two conditions (two minus one) turned out to be quite similar to each other and to the grand averages of the unobserved profiles (condition 2). The following ERP waveforms were clearly reproducible, and are described as the mean data of the two grand-average difference profiles. The first number is latency (from t = 0) of the peak waveform in ms. The second number is the approximate amplitude in microvolts. 1) 50, +1.8, 2) 80, -0.9, 3) 145, +1.5, 4) 165, -1.0, 5) 225, +2.9, 6) 270, -0.7, 7) 320, +2.5, 8) 350, -1.9, and 9) 430, +2.4. We call these waveforms "observation potentials." The two sets of difference profiles would not be expected to be linearly correlated if the brain response were the same for the two conditions. In the protocol a cutoff of p = 0.02 was chosen for statistical significance for rejection of the null hypothesis that the two profiles were not related. The first (y) difference profile was slightly weaker than the second (x) profile, and the two sets of data yield a linear regression equation of y = 0.8x +0.8. The constant probably reflects a small error (about 0.8uV) in relative baseline calibration. The following statistics applied to linear regression: R = 0.73, R squared = 0.54, and SE = 3.3uV, p < 0.0000. ANOVA was significant at p = 2.7 X 10-22. Smoothed data was significant at p = 1.4 X 10-24. Statistical analyses for ANOVA were done using the '97 Microsoft Excel Program. Volumes could be written about the potential implications of these data. The results support the initial assumptions of the experimental model, and explanations not involving quantum collapse are unlikely. In particular, they support the Stapp model. The production of ERPs up to higher levels of cognition involves the necessary cognitive processes for "asking the question" which allows some degree of free will in conscious process. The neurophysiology of ERPs indicates that the process involves the whole brain, tending to validate the whole-brain collapse models of Stapp and Germine. Both brains are interconnected as a single system, lending support to the One Mind Model of Germine (reference above). The results also tend to falsify Einstein's idea that two systems cannot have a direct effect on one another unless they are contiguous, since our two observers were separated and seemed to have no direct connection. Further, these data tend to falsify the theories of the localist schools, as well as bare theories, many mind theories, and many others theoretical formulations of quantum mechanics. Finally, as outlined by Valentini, I would like to suggest that the data support development of coarse-grained quantum entropy and negentropy over time in a system such as the brain, yielding a kind of statistical mechanics of stimulus response, which I first proposed in 1989. This phenomenon yields a temporal duration for collapse and supports the microgenetic theory of Jason Brown as a model for quantum collapse of the mind/brain state. --------------------------------------- [Letter by the paper's author follows] Henry, The statistics presented [above] are not spurious or mistaken. The brain generates a different potential profile from zero to 450 ms. when hearing for the first time a random quantum event. This profile is definitely different than the pattern when someone else observes the event 1 sec earlier. The data presented below have now been replicated through many trials at our lab. We found similar, but not as well defined, results when to observers listened at the same time. The data presented are for two consecutive sets of trials. There was an dysynchrony of about 15 ms in one of the two trials. If this were corrected, the correlation of the two difference profiles would have been much higher. The best individual observation potential profiles (IOPPs) are essentially sinusoidal with positive maxima at 0, 90, 180, 270, 360, and 450ms. This is essentially the alpha rythym of the brain. If overlapping IOPPs are what give rise to the alpha rythym, which is generally synchronous throughout the brain, we seem to have a vast generalization. It may just be a coincidence that the two frequecies correspond. What does this mean? Besides the obvious quantum speculations, one could make an additional postulation that the brain is a quantum periodic system. This would give the system a configuration space derivative of the Schrodinger equation. When is the collapse? Is their a collapse? I believe that there is a collapse during each cycle of 90 ms. Higher order collapses may be interations of the Schrodinger equation, matrices of matices, or superimplicate orders. There is a great deal more here to do. The model is totally empirical and experimental possibilities abound. I have done some already. Itall fits. Do take this seriously. I did not fudge the statistics. I wish the p values were lower, as this would make it seem more reasonable. I could get them much higher if I made adjustments for synchronization, or digitized and compared more data. The difference is real, and reproducable. I do not believe this to be psychokinesis or anything of the sort. It is the brain determining or measuring the quantum stimulus. The questions are of the sort - "Yes, if it is absent." "Yes, if it absent for long enough for figure/ground separation, "Yes, if it is what I am attending to," "Yes, if I elicits the proper emotional response," "Yes, if it elicits the proper cognitive response," "Yes, if the emotional and cognitive response are concruent," and "Yes, I have decided to count it." Mark From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 5 13:39:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA10125; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:38:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:38:39 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [208.48.17.252] From: "Louis Cipher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 15:38:05 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Oct 2000 20:38:05.0369 (UTC) FILETIME=[29CB8290:01C02F0C] Resent-Message-ID: <"Xukp83.0.2U2.FREtv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17033 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Free Energy Book... Hey, for any who are interested...I just bought a book on Free Energy from a website; most of it was old hat, but there were a few goodies from Tom Bearden, and some good grunge-level WORKABLE projects...not as esoteric as some of the stuff I've seen on here, but Radio Shack Parts-level stuff that produces output. Here's the website: http://64.176.241.47/free_energy.html The book was only $20.00, and he took my VISA, no problem. I got the book within a week. Check it out! (Hey, mention I sent you, and maybe he'll give me a discount on Volume 2! ) --Lou _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 5 14:15:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA30553; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:14:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:14:49 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:14:09 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Free Energy Book... To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"anVnJ.0.BT7.8zEtv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17034 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Lou, Site would not pull up. Do you have better address? Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 5 14:29:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA03574; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:28:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:28:21 -0700 Message-ID: <008c01c02f11$675754e0$a9c8fea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:15:32 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"entZ71.0.Wt.r9Ftv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17035 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Fw: the t.e. beardon redefinition..!! [Yahoo! Clubs: ADVANCED SPACE TRANSPORT SCIENCE] ----- Original Message ----- From: "nasagirl22" To: Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 8:11 AM Subject: the t.e. beardon redefinition..!! [Yahoo! Clubs: ADVANCED SPACE TRANSPORT SCIENCE] > "A" vacuum is a spacetime and to the first order, a scalar potential.." _____ "The ambient vacuum is a violently changing and interfering collection of potentials from moving particles all over the universe (i.e. "the" ambient vacuum is really an incredibly large number of conglomerated, interfering vacua/potentials.." _____ "Thus the scalar potential potential interferometry mechanism shown by Whittaker applies to these ambient vacua, and generates the "zero-point EM fluctuation energy of the vacuum.." _____ "This is a direct hyperspatial expression of Puthoff's "cosmological feedback principle", including its determinism.." > > see internet address: http://www.newphys.se/elektromagnum/physics/Bearden/Redefinition_of_Energy_A nsat z/ANSATZ.TXT > > "We begin with the _quantum mechanical vacuum_ (QMV), considered to > be composed of an intense flux of virtual particles, each of which > arises from nowhere and immediately returns to nowhere. [2] We > hypothesize that, a priori, all macroscopic phenomena must in some > fashion consist of stable ensembles (forms) in equilibrium in the > QMV. From this viewpoint we advance the following fundamental new > definitions: > > "_Energy_ is any ordering, either static or dynamic, in the virtual > particle flux of vacuum. [3] _Electromagnetic energy_ is any > ordering, either static or dynamic, in the virtual \photon\ flux > of vacuum. [4] _Work_ is the local scattering of energy -- the > total disordering of the order in the virtual particle flux. [5] > > "A _potential_ is any ordering, either static or dynamic or > combination thereof, in the virtual particle flux of vacuum. [6] > Note that this makes the new definitions of potential and energy > synonymous -- a potential is \pure energy\, a priori. [7] The > potential also must be totally ordered \internally\, which is a > quite new concept for physics. [8] Both energy and potential are > collections of the individual energies of a host of > individually-moving virtual particles. Neither energy nor the > potential are directly observable, because the order is in and of > the virtual state. A _scalar potential_ is any static > (stationary) ordering in the virtual particle flux of vacuum, > with respect to the external observer. A _vector potential_ is > any dynamic (non-stationary) ordering in the virtual particle flux > of vacuum, with respect to the external observer. \Both scalar > and vector potentials have totally ordered, nonlocal, Whittaker > hyperspatial interiors.\ [9] Scalar potentials and vector > potentials are simply different subsets of the energy domain. > Both are stable forms in a dynamic VPF medium. One is stationary > with respect to the external observer; the other is translating. > Both potentials are \open systems\, continually being supplied with > wave energy flowing in from the external universe, and continually > emitting wave energy flowing out to the external universe. Both > kinds of potentials possess ordered internal Whittaker > bidirectional wave structures, flowing throughout local and > nonlocal space wherever the particular potential has a nonzero > convolution value. [10].." > > (continued...!!) > > --------------------------------------------- > DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE BY EMAIL! > --------------------------------------------- > You have chosen to receive messages from "ADVANCED SPACE TRANSPORT SCIENCE" by email. > > Reply to this message: > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/advancedspacetransportscience/bbsfrp?action=r&t id=advancedspacetransportscience&sid=13698624&mid=4046 > > Unsubscribe from the Club mailing list: > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/advancedspacetransportscience/config/change_mb_ list > > Return to "ADVANCED SPACE TRANSPORT SCIENCE": > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/advancedspacetransportscience > ---------------------------------------------- > > Not a member? Remove yourself from this list: > http://edit.clubs.yahoo.com/config/unsubscribe_mb_list?.userID=ixion6&.group ID=advancedspacetransportscience&.groupType=&.code=2OYqtiPrpG > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 5 14:29:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA03964; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:28:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:28:49 -0700 Message-ID: <009601c02f11$794fdb40$a9c8fea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:16:02 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"ciyMe2.0.mz.HAFtv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17036 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Fw: the t.e. beardon redefinition..!! (2) [Yahoo! Clubs: ADVANCED SPACE TRANSPORT SCIENCE] ----- Original Message ----- From: "nasagirl22" To: Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 8:33 AM Subject: the t.e. beardon redefinition..!! (2) [Yahoo! Clubs: ADVANCED SPACE TRANSPORT SCIENCE] > "We shall concentrate on scalar potentials. An _electrostatic > scalar potential_ is any static (stationary) ordering in the > virtual photon flux of vacuum. Its ordered Whittaker structure > is an _ordered lattice of spacetime/vacuum_ (Figure 1), and > consists of a Fourier expansion of harmonic transverse EM plane > waves, coupled to the phase conjugate of the expansion in 1:1 ratio. > _Scalar (potential) interferometry_ [11] between two or more scalar > EM potentials is just the multiple simultaneous interferometry of > their constituent Whittaker waves.." > > ***followed by "THE STATISTICAL GRAVITON CONCEPT"*** - the notion of gravitational particulate emergence as coupled photon/anti-photon pairs (a convergent theory of gravitational "force" occurence)..!! > > happiness! > blanche > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>comments..!! > > you should note, however that the notion of spacetime as applied to the quantum vacuum or to the vacuous region of electrostatic potentiation (for example) ASSUMES that energetically potentiating structures include as expressive property DIMENSION (i.e. that of space and time embedding) without being framed by dimension, or that, in other words, they PRODUCE their own dimensionality or dimensionalize, on their own and dimensionality is then an entirely "plastic" property of energetically emergent processes and structures..!! > > but is this (or can this be?) so..??! here again, it appears that the notion of "spacetime" as intrinsic to matter/energy has been uncritically assessed prior to intended reifications (as this article proposes)..!! since if we infer that "any change or transformation" = "the occurrent of time dimensionality" and that "any occurrence, particulate or otherwise structural" = "the occurrence of space dimensionality", then the hyper-spatial/temporal definition of the quantum vacuum would reduce least "motion" or "action" to the relation of QUANTUM STRUCTURE OCCURRENCE/QUANTUM STRUCTURE TRANSFORMATION or the idea c(vec) = Qs^n/Qt^n (or to occurrent structure as transformatively compared or sequenced (+n), anti-sequenced (-n), permutatively sequenced (+/- n), non-locally extant, or evolving (n0), etc.)..!! > > however, this would imply how "quantum structure = space", for example and so, counterintuitively, since it is much more understandable that "space" realizes structure or lends its dimensionality to physical structure..! in other words, it is an attempt to "reduce" both "space" and "time" dimensionality to quantum structure/transformation, without realizing how no structure or transformation can exist or occur independent of space and time "conditionality" or independent of DIMENSIONAL MECHANICAL occurrence, a priori (i.e. before hand or before such emergences are possible in any coherent sense)..! this also means that structural coherence is dimensional-mechanically dependent (and not the other way around, for it would be absurd to state or assume how "dimensionality is dependent upon matter", for example, as matter without the a priori conditionality or support of dimensionality is and would be actually void..)..! > > further, we would not be able to speak of the existence of "higher dimensional spacetimes" (Koluza-Klein theory..!!) in which particulate occurrence may be emergent and therefore not of "shadow" effects or "echo" effects in 4-dimensional spacetime, as a result of such occurrence, either..!! > > happiness! > blanche > > p.s. one of the problems involves the attempt to "arbitrarily make mathematical ideas physical" however, and this has plagued physics for some time..!! > > --------------------------------------------- > DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE BY EMAIL! > --------------------------------------------- > You have chosen to receive messages from "ADVANCED SPACE TRANSPORT SCIENCE" by email. > > Reply to this message: > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/advancedspacetransportscience/bbsfrp?action=r&t id=advancedspacetransportscience&sid=13698624&mid=4047 > > Unsubscribe from the Club mailing list: > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/advancedspacetransportscience/config/change_mb_ list > > Return to "ADVANCED SPACE TRANSPORT SCIENCE": > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/advancedspacetransportscience > ---------------------------------------------- > > Not a member? Remove yourself from this list: > http://edit.clubs.yahoo.com/config/unsubscribe_mb_list?.userID=ixion6&.group ID=advancedspacetransportscience&.groupType=&.code=2OYqtiPrpG > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 5 14:56:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA13055; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:55:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:55:40 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [64.27.205.86] From: "Louis Cipher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Free Energy Book... Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:55:05 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Oct 2000 21:55:05.0352 (UTC) FILETIME=[EB84F880:01C02F16] Resent-Message-ID: <"fbgi02.0.uB3.SZFtv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17037 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I just checked it, and it's up...it's changed since the last time I saw it...they must be changing it or something... Anyway, I used this link, and it came up fine aminute ago... http://64.176.241.47/free_energy.html --Lou >From: HLafonte@aol.com >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: [FG]: Free Energy Book... >Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:14:09 EDT > >Lou, >Site would not pull up. Do you have better address? >Butch LaFonte > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 5 17:18:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA26655; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:13:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:13:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001801c02f27$6fba8a60$4b3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <200010050939.FAA20913@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 19:53:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"5WEBr2.0.HW6.naHtv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17038 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gentlemen; Another quick update. Sam tried attaching a .1 uF capacitor across the meter, as Bill suggested. Very strange. It actually seemed to increase the effect slightly, taking the anomaly ratio from 4mA actual / 6mA sum to 4.1mA actual / 7.1mA sum. Sam is going to try spacing the LEDs apart and re-taking measurements. Will probably hear back on it by Saturday. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 5 18:03:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA04613; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:58:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:58:51 -0700 (PDT) From: DEADWATE@aol.com Message-ID: <36.c477727.270e7d8e@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:57:50 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Free Energy Book... To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 107 Resent-Message-ID: <"DwC5r3.0.-71.4FItv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17039 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 10/5/00 2:15:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, HLafonte@aol.com writes: << Lou, Site would not pull up. Do you have better address? Butch LaFonte >> Worked for me. try it again. Mitch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 5 18:44:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA08980; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:41:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:41:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <024b01c02f34$ab712de0$a9c8fea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:27:59 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"NYkUC.0.7C2.ksItv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17040 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Fw: Quantum Electrogravitation? [Yahoo! Clubs: ADVANCED SPACE TRANSPORT SCIENCE] > There is a paper about Quantum Electrogravitation at http://www.electrogravity.com/index8.html and although it is not what Canada2902 intends, I believe, it is nevertheless quite interesting, from mathematical standpoint. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 5 19:36:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA06848; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 19:36:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 19:36:26 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001005212227.00c3d9f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 21:38:13 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile In-Reply-To: <001801c02f27$6fba8a60$4b3dee3f@default> References: <200010050939.FAA20913@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"uwmVp3.0.og1.egJtv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17041 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com OK.. I also tried the caps... I used 100pf K5U disks inserted into the lead jacks at the meter. and it reduced the effect to well within the error rating of the meters. I also characterized my meters through 2GHz (for future reference) Being the skeptic in this case I would like to say that it is a meter error. However. I am not certain that I have successfully duplicated the anomaly Using the break out method produced errors in the opposite direction as the anomaly (as predicted) once the cap was added. We are back where we started... Has anybody else located a set of the correct LEDs? Also when operated at 30ma (as recommended on the package) these little diodes are obnoxiously bright. I also picked up a white LED makes a suitable key chain flashlight that consumes about 1/3 the power of an incandescent bulb for a slightly higher MCD output. At 07:53 PM 10/5/00 -0400, you wrote: >Gentlemen; > > Another quick update. > > Sam tried attaching a .1 uF capacitor across the meter, as Bill >suggested. Very strange. It actually seemed to increase the effect >slightly, taking the anomaly ratio from 4mA actual / 6mA sum to 4.1mA actual >/ 7.1mA sum. > > Sam is going to try spacing the LEDs apart and re-taking measurements. >Will probably hear back on it by Saturday. > >NR Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 5 23:38:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA04175; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 23:37:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 23:37:43 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <9d.b9a9289.270ecd27@aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 02:37:27 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 106 Resent-Message-ID: <"zTdBO3.0.t01.tCNtv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17042 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: (IMPORTANT) The Motionless Electromagnetic Generator from Tom Bearden Dear All, I have just received an email from Tom Bearden himself about : ***** A VERY IMPORTANT PAPER ******* MUST BE READ ******** << As you are aware, this one works beautifully and produces COP=5.0. Our patent application has been filed and so full patent coverage is retained; >> Has said Tom Bearden > Information on our Motionless Electromagnetic Generator has now been > publicly released, in the form of our paper, "The Motionless Electromagnetic > Generator: Extracting Energy from a Permanent Magnet with > Energy-Replenishing from the Active Vacuum," carried on public DoE website > > http://www.ott.doe.gov/pdfs/MEGpaper.pdf > > Thus you may furnish the information to whomever you wish, since it is now > publicly released and can be freely downloaded. It is a long paper (69 > pages) and does take a little time to download. > > We are encouraging web site managers who so wish, to place a pointer to the > paper if they wish to. > > As you are aware, this one works beautifully and produces COP=5.0. Our > patent application has been filed and so full patent coverage is retained; > we have been in patent-pending status for some time prior to the public > release. We expect to force the patent by direct demonstration and > independent government-certified test laboratory testing and certification > to NIST, IEEE, and U.S. Government test standards. > > The system uses an extension to the work-energy theorem: In a replenishing > potential environment, when energy is removed from the potential in a > different form, the potential is simply replenished by the giant entropy > process (my paper on the giant negentropy process is on the same DoE > website). Use of a permanent magnet simply uses its magnetostatic scalar > potential to evoke and sustain the giant negentropy mechanism. This > sustains the continuous flow of the magnetic vector potential, and the > device separates the magnetic B-field from the magnetic vector potential A. > The giant negentropy mechanism continuously replenishes the A-potential as > fast as energy is extracted from it. Thus it is rather like dipping bucket > after bucket of water from the same spatial volume in a rushing river, with > the river instantly filling the hole up each time a dip is made. In this > case we must pay only for the switching costs, since the giant negentropy > mechanism continually replenishes the magnetic dipole sustaining the > magnetic vector potential energy flow. Note that we do not destroy the > source dipole, as every conventional closed current loop electrical system > does. As Whittaker showed in 1903, once the dipolarity is established, the > giant negentropy process continues so long as the dipole exists. Dipoles in > original matter, e.g., have been pouring out copious energy by this process > for some 15 billion years, so the energy is absolutely inexhaustible and > copious. > > There are 23 illustrations in the Magnetic Energy Ltd. paper on the DoE > website. > > Very best wishes, > Tom > PS: PLEASE FORWARD THIS INFO AROUND THE WEB..... Good reading and good experiments, Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Main Web site: http://go.to/jlnlabs Alternate web site: http://jnaudin.free.fr/ eGroup:http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 ICQ: UIN 74846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 6 00:41:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA15890; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:40:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:40:57 -0700 Message-ID: <20001006074024.27914.qmail@web4405.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:40:24 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"3qP1q.0.xt3.98Otv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17043 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Cross Post/The Rotating High Frequency Standing Wave --- Anna M* wrote: > > > > > There is a paper about Quantum Electrogravitation > at > http://www.electrogravity.com/index8.html and > although it is not what > Canada2902 intends, I believe, it is nevertheless > quite interesting, from > mathematical standpoint. > > I think you got a lot of lists mixed up on these cross posts but thanx anyways and this is also sneaked in as a reply to Jerry Bayles of electrogravity list which you just quoted, and since I have already posted a version of this, it is an old hat kind of reposting; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 19:18:30 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: The Rotating High Frequency Standing Wave To: quark137@aol.com CC: ke3ij@tricountyi.net In Rick Andersens 7 scalar methods, http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/the7sclr.htm he quotes the following on your comprehension; Using a leap of logic that takes some amount of reading to understand, he then goes on to apply this configuration to the hull of a saucer-shaped vehicle, outlining a system whereby one would rotate the standing wave around a craft's hull and thereby create electrogravitational forces that would propel the ship. {His configuration seems to resemble the typical bipolar direction of currents/ each side producing a mirror image standing wave on top and bottom saucer sides/ this is a little different from other ideas;HDN} I have had a similar idea, not applied towards electrogravity, but simply as a what if scenario as to what if they did this in the mythical Philadelphia Experiment. Essentially this is the same scenario I am building. These are contained under the Stormy Weather thread on my messageboard indexed at bottom of letter as PX files of 9/19/00. In a 3 phase motor the illusion of a rotating magnetic field is made by having the full magnetic field of each coil appear to rotate in space. Yet I know of not a single experimentation where this polyphase principle has been further applied to tesla coils. I have called this the ring of fire possibility, that will be shown as a triangular discharge between three high voltage terminals charged by a 3 phase input. That in itself would be easy to design, but further study of delta and wye possibilities show that something entirely different may be possible. In this different possibility the same possibity of a binary resonant system {The BRS as I have named it, is the discovery of a parallel resonant closed/series resonant open switch. See Tesla Electric Co webpages http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/Homepage.html The previous icon on the next page shows a 70 watt electrical discharge from the system of quite some distance across water, at only a 440 volt input. But the point here is that schematically that arcing method is not what is used in a tesla coil at all. In fact that method for a tesla coil discharge has never even been attempted. It may be hazardous for the transformer ect, but the nations leading tesla coil builder,Bill Wysock of Tesla Technology Research, ttr.com has written me in the past to say he has already done this BRS idea, where I wrote him back explaining why he has not. These letters are also at the messageboard under Ohio Teslathon. The (BRS) system resembles a Bipolar Coil system, but is not quite the same thing as the tesla coil builders build them.}[One reason is because they use a single capacity to resonate the dual primaries, the BRS uses two capacities and two coils] To continue here before going off topic again, as I was saying there are two ways to do things. In the basic design of a 3 phase tesla coil system,(again I state that this also may never have yet been done experimentally) we can consider the adaptation of the Oudin coil, or high frequency autotransformer for our speculation of adaptation of high frequency transformers to 3 phase. As not quite the same analogy(it takes too long to explain that here,but the delta quantites are series resonances, employing a trisectional arc gap, as the BRS analogy for a firing primary system, that can theoretically eliminated by opening the gap once firing starts, see [FG]: Ring of Fire/ 3 phase tesla primary Schematic, http://www.escribe.com/science/freenrg/m9505.html ,breif extraction follows; To understand the interior current paths we can first analyse it when the bottom delta series resonance is zero current. This also makes its midpoint path zero current, so at the triple arc gap only the other two phases have interphasal arcing. These phases at that moment in time have a positive 120 degree voltage, and a negative 240 degree voltage. When this is analysed in context with delta phasing, we see that the current in each series resonant circuit is in opposite directions, providing opposite resonant rises of voltage enabling this arcing to occur at their relative midpoints on the triple arc gap. Thus transposed schematically the remaining phases when one phase is zero represents a BRS with respect to their relative 180 phasing of currents, thus making the triple arc gap method analogous to a rotating BRS, by virtue of phasing rotation. HDN Now As I was trying to make this point the delta components are the three tesla primaries,although that definition is somewhat obscured by the 3 phase adaptation made for a triple arc gap, as the 3 phase BRS method for primary arcing, which is totally different from the conventional primary firing methods for tesla coils. The three secondaries are then the 3 wye components,[these WYE components are line tied as a direct connection to the delta series resonances midpoints, or the wire between L and C, making it more a OUDIN 3 phase autotransformer bipolar design rather than a simple 3 phase tesla coil design. Because the secondary is not isolated from the primary as in an ordinary tesla coil design, this direct connection makes those electrical arcs are far more dangerous as an electrocution possibility.] The typical tesla coilers analogy would be to put appropriately sized globes on top of each wye secondary as determined by the amount of polar capacity needed to resonate with that secondary, as done in resonant formulas. This would then be the first recorded 3 phase ring of fire to my knowledge, which may be wrong but is declared, producing a triangular discharge between those terminals as a functioning 3 phase bipolar high frequency autotransformer. This is all good and fine, but that in itself is not the true analogy of the BRS principle applied to this secondary discharge. When we understand the true analogy we begin to understand how an entire ship could be electrified with continual high frequency impulses, and possibly how to produce this high frequency rotating standing wave you seem to indicate may have electrogravitic characteristics. In my device the components are huge because I am attempting to make it resonate at a so called resonant frequency of water, around 31,250 hz. For the secondaries needed capacity a value of 165 pf is needed. This is a fairly huge surface area if a polar capacity were desired, but perhaps the external metal areas of your flying saucer design could be put in sections for each phase to serve this purpose of creating the high voltage, high frequency standing wave rotating about the ship. But in this scenario, it is more important to observe what will be going on INSIDE the ship. To show this adaptation we need to totally dismiss the above scenario. Instead of using 165 pf of terminal polar capacity, we instead use 165 pf of a conventional double plate air capacity. The three 165 pf dual plated air capacities are also joined together in wye from the center as a common connection, or ship ground. Now that is nothing new, only another adaptation of the ring of fire. If the air gap of the 165 pf is bridged by arcing, I dont think the occupants of the ship would find this to be a pleasant sensation! This is not the correct BRS 3 phase analogy for secondary arcing. Imagine now that the three inner common capacitor plates are drawn together now as a triangular three dimensional piece. On the outside of this triangle are the other plates with the air gap between them on this triple air gap model. In this design provided that the distance between the outside edges of these outside 3 plates is less than twice the distance of each central arc gap, the discharge itself will then arc across the outside plates, never arcing to the inside, or never producing a electrical discharge made to this newly created ground potential. In this way the ship is then only capacitively coupled to the high frequency discharges, but it is continually being subjected to a high frequency vibration from two of the phases in time. This is the correct 3 phase BRS analogy for secondaries, in that the arc is MADE BETWEEN 2 SERIES RESONANCES AT THE WYE MIDPOINTS, instead of across one of the L or C components. When we allow arcing across a component, or the typical air capacity C value, that arcing itself may diminish the resonance, because the arc then appears as a short to that component, and the two LC resonant quantities now appear more as a single non resonant L value when the C quantity is bridged by arcing. All this tends to quickly extinguish the arc, and gives a longer recharge time for re-arcing to occur. A BRS discharge never shorts the components being used for the resonance, rather the arcing is internal to the schematic, instead of the conventional method of making the arc external to the components, thus appearing as a short across those components. Because of the relative importance of this experimentation I am temporarily suspending work on the 90 degree phasing idea, in order to explore this more conventional 3 phase approach. The dual 3 phase alternators have now ben timed to be identical in phasings. For an electrified ship idea I could drive these alternators from a conventional 5 hp motor, and make a star 12 phased BRS schematic. Who knows ,maybe electrogravity can be made someday, and a flying saucer model is not that far off... For a 4 phase indocrination, a simple BRS schematic, and pictures of the 6 phase reluctance alternator prototype design see http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/4phase.html and the following page after. Sincerely Harvey D Norris Tesla Electric Co. ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 6 01:17:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA23829; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 01:16:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 01:16:38 -0700 Message-Id: <200010060816.e968GXI10393@home.karahalios.org> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 01:16:32 -0700 Reply-To: Alex@Karahalios.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.337) From: Alex Karahalios To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v337) Subject: Re: [FG]: (IMPORTANT) The Motionless Electromagnetic Generator from Tom Bearden Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id BAA23786 Resent-Message-ID: <"Uv-V81.0.1q5.afOtv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17044 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thursday, October 5, 2000, at 11:37 PM, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > As you are aware, this one works beautifully and produces COP=5.0. Our > > patent application has been filed and so full patent coverage is retained; > > we have been in patent-pending status for some time prior to the public > > release. We expect to force the patent by direct demonstration and > > independent government-certified test laboratory testing and certification > > to NIST, IEEE, and U.S. Government test standards. > > Wow, this is an exciting development. I downloaded the paper and was very impressed. Has anyone duplicated this yet? Alex Karahalios From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 6 01:31:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA26734; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 01:31:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 01:31:26 -0700 Message-ID: <39DD8DDC.F6A3BA12@groupz.net> Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 04:31:24 -0400 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siWpfcUINhQ,x-ns2r2d09OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: (IMPORTANT) The Motionless Electromagnetic Generator from Tom Bearden References: <200010060816.e968GXI10393@home.karahalios.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"A1CKl2.0.dX6.UtOtv"@mx1> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17045 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com What kind of core material would this be.....low hysteresis... low retentivity...????.....steve opelc > > On Thursday, October 5, 2000, at 11:37 PM, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > > > As you are aware, this one works beautifully and produces COP=5.0. Our > > > patent application has been filed and so full patent coverage is retained; > > > we have been in patent-pending status for some time prior to the public > > > release. We expect to force the patent by direct demonstration and > > > independent government-certified test laboratory testing and certification > > > to NIST, IEEE, and U.S. Government test standards. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 6 01:41:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA29695; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 01:40:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 01:40:56 -0700 Message-Id: <200010060840.e968epI10566@home.karahalios.org> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 01:40:51 -0700 Reply-To: Alex@Karahalios.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.337) From: Alex Karahalios To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v337) Subject: Re: [FG]: (IMPORTANT) The Motionless Electromagnetic Generator from Tom Bearden Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id BAA29666 Resent-Message-ID: <"C7U5b1.0.pF7.M0Ptv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17046 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Friday, October 6, 2000, at 01:31 AM, sno wrote: > What kind of core material would this be.....low hysteresis... > low retentivity...????.....steve opelc > The paper states: "We hit upon the stratagem of using a highly specialized magnetic core material, nanocrystalline in nature and in special tape-wound layered structure, to try to extract the energy from the magnetic vector potential (A-potential) as a magnetic B-field (cu rl of the A-potential) that is locally restricted to the special nanocrystalline material which forms a closed magnetic flux path closed on both poles of the permanent magnet dipole. It turned out that the nanocrystalline material,material,[4] because of its nature and also its tape-wound layered construction, actually will perform this separation of B-field and A-potential energy which is heretofore unheard of in such a simple magnetic core mechanism and flux path material. [4] Obtained off-the-shelf as a commercial product from Honeywell." So there you have it. Call Honeywell and order some nanocrystalline material. Alex Karahalios From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 6 03:56:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA10474; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 03:55:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 03:55:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001501c02f83$eb459100$393dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <200010050939.FAA20913@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <4.2.0.58.20001005212227.00c3d9f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 06:55:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"6MUk92.0.XZ2.I-Qtv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17047 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Charlie; Thanks for trying this as well. I will report your results back to Sam. Could you give your best guess as to what frequency range the noise from the diodes covers? That there is this forward bias noise anyway is an interesting phenomenon, and maybe useful, even if it is not anomalous. Thanks; NR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Ford" To: Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 10:38 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile > OK.. > > I also tried the caps... I used 100pf K5U disks inserted into the lead > jacks at the meter. and it reduced the effect to well within the error > rating of the meters. I also characterized my meters through 2GHz (for > future reference) > > Being the skeptic in this case I would like to say that it is a meter > error. However. I am not certain that I have successfully duplicated the > anomaly > > Using the break out method produced errors in the opposite direction as the > anomaly (as predicted) once the cap was added. > > We are back where we started... Has anybody else located a set of the > correct LEDs? > > Also when operated at 30ma (as recommended on the package) these little > diodes are obnoxiously bright. I also picked up a white LED makes a > suitable key chain flashlight that consumes about 1/3 the power of an > incandescent bulb for a slightly higher MCD output. > > At 07:53 PM 10/5/00 -0400, you wrote: > > >Gentlemen; > > > > Another quick update. > > > > Sam tried attaching a .1 uF capacitor across the meter, as Bill > >suggested. Very strange. It actually seemed to increase the effect > >slightly, taking the anomaly ratio from 4mA actual / 6mA sum to 4.1mA actual > >/ 7.1mA sum. > > > > Sam is going to try spacing the LEDs apart and re-taking measurements. > >Will probably hear back on it by Saturday. > > > >NR > > Charlie Ford > cjford1@yahoo.com > cjford1@swbell.net > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 6 09:27:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA08432; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:26:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:26:40 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 16:25:47 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Sender-Ip: 143.210.81.42 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Yf3y22.0.W32.0rVtv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17048 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Free Super Dielectric Heh, In a bid to cut air pollution, the UK government has confirmed plans to infuse paving slabs for our streets with Titanium dioxide. This will absorb the noxious gases, but is also of use to us, I feel......... Just imagine, you could filch a slab in the night, slice off what you want, and put it back - free, dense, superdielectric rock for nothing. James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 6 09:33:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA10544; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:33:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:33:19 -0700 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:31:40 -0400 (EDT) From: David Cyganski To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"v2qJn.0.ba2.FxVtv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17049 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Faile/Reiter LED circuit test results Reading Nick Reiter's nice experimental description and follow-through on the tribogravitic effect inspired me to follow up on his more recent Faile LED effect. I document below the experimental set-up and results. Thanks to Nick's specification of the specific LEDs and a source for purchasing same, I acquired 5 Green InGaN LEDs, part number 25-377 from Hosfelt Electronics, Inc. ($3.99 each). To avoid problems related to breaking the circuit to obtain current measurements, I choose to use a configuration in which each of the 5 LEDs would be in series with a 100 Ohm resistor and the parallel wired group would in turn be in series with a 10 Ohm resistor for the measurement of the total group current. Of course, resistors do not have exactly matched values. Hence, as a first step, I wired all six resistors in series, drove a single current through the set and measured the voltage (with a high input resistance digital meter) across each. This allowed me to evaluate the relative resistances of each and it is summarized in the first column of values given in the table below. Next the test circuit was wired. This was wired on a socket-type protoboard. No bypass capacitors were used in order to "see" the effect even if it was caused by RF effects as was conjectured in the list group. I figured it would be best to start by seeing the effect and then go about the job of determining its cause. After wiring the test circuit, I applied a voltage from a regulated power supply and adjusted it until approximately 10 mA flowed through each of the LEDs. The LEDs are specified as having a nominal operating current of 20 mA. By the way, wow are these bright! My first instinct on turning on the power was to flick it off before I burned them out. But, actually they are ok, just really really bright. Now, I used the DVM to measure the voltage across each of the six resistors. This is listed in the second column of the table. Then using the calibrated resistance values, the current was calculated for each leg of the circuit as given in the third column. Resistance Voltage Current R1 100.0 Ohms 1.022 V 10.220 mA R2 100.4 .872 8.685 R3 100.5 .938 9.333 R4 100.3 1.012 10.090 R5 100.2 1.006 10.040 R6 9.97 .482 48.368 <- measured sum current Sum of I1 to I5 48.345 As can be readily seen, the sum of the LED currents is within 0.05% of the total measured current, well within any reasonable error bound that one could place on this measurement system. So, I did not see any anomolous behavior with this configuration. I will now try varying the conditions to attempt to find the source of Dr. Faile's experimental findings. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 6 10:14:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA23660; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:13:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:13:57 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001006112757.0095e7e0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 12:14:05 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile In-Reply-To: <001501c02f83$eb459100$393dee3f@default> References: <200010050939.FAA20913@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <4.2.0.58.20001005212227.00c3d9f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"CQqo61.0.Xn5.KXWtv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17050 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com fo I am guessing can be calculated by your lead lengths. 5620 / L where L is the total lead length between two LEDs in inches. This is based on a half wave single wire resonator and is consistent with the signal content I observed. If there is content above 500MHz I would not have seen this due to the limited bandwidth of my scope. This appears to be a result of a small negative current coefficient near the break over voltage of the diode. This behavior (of a tunnel diode) is frequently used in microwave equipment. When a tunnel diode is used in a 1/2 wave cavity and the current is fixed to the "sweet spot" it make a relatively stable oscillator. At 06:55 AM 10/6/00 -0400, you wrote: >Charlie; > >Thanks for trying this as well. I will report your results back to Sam. >Could you give your best guess as to what frequency range the noise from the >diodes covers? That there is this forward bias noise anyway is an >interesting phenomenon, and maybe useful, even if it is not anomalous. > >Thanks; > >NR >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Charles Ford" >To: >Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 10:38 PM >Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile > > > > OK.. > > > > I also tried the caps... I used 100pf K5U disks inserted into the lead > > jacks at the meter. and it reduced the effect to well within the error > > rating of the meters. I also characterized my meters through 2GHz (for > > future reference) > > > > Being the skeptic in this case I would like to say that it is a meter > > error. However. I am not certain that I have successfully duplicated the > > anomaly > > > > Using the break out method produced errors in the opposite direction as >the > > anomaly (as predicted) once the cap was added. > > > > We are back where we started... Has anybody else located a set of the > > correct LEDs? > > > > Also when operated at 30ma (as recommended on the package) these little > > diodes are obnoxiously bright. I also picked up a white LED makes a > > suitable key chain flashlight that consumes about 1/3 the power of an > > incandescent bulb for a slightly higher MCD output. > > > > At 07:53 PM 10/5/00 -0400, you wrote: > > > > >Gentlemen; > > > > > > Another quick update. > > > > > > Sam tried attaching a .1 uF capacitor across the meter, as Bill > > >suggested. Very strange. It actually seemed to increase the effect > > >slightly, taking the anomaly ratio from 4mA actual / 6mA sum to 4.1mA >actual > > >/ 7.1mA sum. > > > > > > Sam is going to try spacing the LEDs apart and re-taking >measurements. > > >Will probably hear back on it by Saturday. > > > > > >NR > > > > Charlie Ford > > cjford1@yahoo.com > > cjford1@swbell.net > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 6 15:30:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA13104; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 15:23:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 15:23:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003001c02fe2$5af390c0$343dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 18:11:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"6CdoN2.0.WC3.r3btv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17051 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Faile/Reiter LED circuit test results David; Thanks for the supportive attitude and very thorough experiment. I congratulate you on your care and diligence. I have inserted my comments into your text, below: > > To avoid problems related to breaking the circuit to obtain current > measurements, I choose to use a configuration in which each of the > 5 LEDs would be in series with a 100 Ohm resistor and the parallel > wired group would in turn be in series with a 10 Ohm resistor for > the measurement of the total group current. ******* This sounds reasonable, as Sam indicated he had seen an effect with up to 100 ohm resistors in the branches. > Of course, resistors do not have exactly matched values. Hence, as a > first step, I wired all six resistors in series, drove a single current > through the set and measured the voltage (with a high input resistance > digital meter) across each. This allowed me to evaluate the relative > resistances of each and it is summarized in the first column of values > given in the table below. ******** A very thoughtful step. > > Next the test circuit was wired. This was wired on a socket-type > protoboard. No bypass capacitors were used in order to "see" the effect > even if it was caused by RF effects as was conjectured in the list group. > I figured it would be best to start by seeing the effect and then go about > the job of determining its cause. ***** Again, very good. Sam's original designs, however have been very loose and extended. His lead wires for inserting the meter during "break-out" are fairly long, although the LED's are pretty close packed together in a bundle. > > After wiring the test circuit, I applied a voltage from a regulated power > supply and adjusted it until approximately 10 mA flowed through each of > the LEDs. The LEDs are specified as having a nominal operating current of > 20 mA. By the way, wow are these bright! My first instinct on turning on > the power was to flick it off before I burned them out. But, actually they > are ok, just really really bright. ******* Very bright indeed. I will insert my most key comment here. The current range you used with this test may be beyond the "anomaly" range, which seems closer to cut-off. If you run further tests, I would turn the V down to a level where you are achieving perhaps 1 to 2 mA per branch. As Charlie indicated, this HF oscillation may be the key to the whole mess, and it seems to do this at certain forward current levels. Or try again using a battery set. > > Now, I used the DVM to measure the voltage across each of the six > resistors. This is listed in the second column of the table. Then using > the calibrated resistance values, the current was calculated for each leg > of the circuit as given in the third column. ******* Very interesting. This indeed is the usual way to read currents in a circuit one wishes not to disturb. Might I suggest though, that you make a comparison set of readings using the mA scale of your meter, and actually doing a branch by branch break-out current test. If one gets a very different set of readings, it may help pin down the mechanism behind the discrepancy What you have done is excellent! Now the trick would be to back up to Sam's original configuration, and see if there is a point where odd things start to happen. Or not... I will pass all of this on to Sam. Thanks again, and I look forward to your further results. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 6 17:05:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA14753; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:04:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:04:37 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39DE161B.A089DE38@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 13:12:43 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: [FG]: Free Super Dielectric References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_TlP12.0.Lc3.LYctv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17052 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com James Owen Batchelor wrote: > > Heh, > > In a bid to cut air pollution, the UK government has confirmed plans to infuse paving slabs for our streets with Titanium dioxide. This will absorb the noxious gases, but is also of use to us, I feel......... > > Just imagine, you could filch a slab in the night, slice off what you want, and put it back - free, dense, superdielectric rock for nothing. > > James O. Batchelor Note INFUSE does not mean PURE. They're just going to add some since Titania with sunlight is very good at breaking down nasty organics.... NB, Titania is DIRT cheap, just find some place, and order a bag... ;) Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 6 20:46:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA24999; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 20:46:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 20:46:31 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39DE4A1D.766A81E2@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 16:54:37 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ikLo63.0.S66.Noftv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17053 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: LED Effect. Okay, some off the cuff ideas. We all know that NASA is looking to tap the Casmir force using quantum scale boxes and micromachinery, to see if it's possible. A source of free energy from the ZPE. Now, the GaN LEDs are supposed to be quantum box based, right? So I would assume that GaN LEDS that emit UV light probably have smaller 'boxes' than those that emit lowere energy light ( like blues ). So we again have 2 devices, each with a quantum well, of incredibly small size. No doubt they too are subject to the Casmir forces and ZPE flucuations. So maybe, just maybe, by linking up 2 LEDS of the proper type, we can extract it electronically like NASA is trying to with micromachinery? <:) Daniel From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 6 23:08:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA24549; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 23:07:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 23:07:25 -0700 From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: john_hutchison@geocities.com, your_neighbor@geocities.com, harvich@yahoo.com Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 23:09:59 -0700 Subject: Re: [FG]: The Rotating High Frequency Standing Wave Message-ID: <20001006.231000.-339947.1.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,8-9,11,16-17,21-22,24-25,36-40,48-50,53-54,60-61,63-90 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"PVWLZ3.0.P_5.Sshtv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17054 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Harvey and All, This reminds me of a story that an engineer working at NASA Ames (for a contractor of NASA) once told me yeas ago. He wondered what would happen if an electric field were rotated such that the tangential velocity came close to or even tried to exceed the speed of light. Imagine an electrostatic dipole rotating so that its ends reach speeds near C. He set up a cylindrical Faraday shield made of screen in which was placed 3 dipole antennas tuned to the 10 meter amateur band (29 Mhz). Using a coax cable phasing harness he split the output from a 100 Watt transmitter (a Heathkit DX-100, tube type transmitter of late 50's/early 60's vintage) so that they fed the three dipoles with 29 Mhz three phase power. In so doing he created a rotating electric field inside the cylinder. The interesting thing was that he said that small objects like rubber erasers would sometime levitate inside the chamber when the transmitter was running. Not surprisingly, the rubber erasers (and other objects) would also get hot. Unfortunately this story was told to me over 20 years ago and I have lost track of the gentleman. He told me the story in a matter of fact manner, he never retracted the story or made it a laughing matter as if it were a joke. He seemed like a serious engineer. He worked for a contractor (Nelson/Johnson Engineering, as I recall) that was designing equipment for experiments to be taken up by the space shuttle. Although I considered his story interesting, if somewhat dubious, I did not gasp the significance of what he told me until years later when I heard of the "Hutchison Effect" where object are levitated and also modified in various ways by the effects of some Tesla coils operating along with Van-de-Graphs and perhaps radio transmitters operated by an inventor named John Hutchison in BC Canada in the late 1980's. see: http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/8863/HEffect1.html I have met people who were first hand witnesses (in addition to John himself) of the "Hutchison Effect" and I have seen videos taken by a TV news crew and others. It is a real phenomena, it is not a joke or a trick, although some think it might be a poltergeist or psychokinesis. Hutchison does not think this though, I have asked him, he believes it is a physical effect. Unfortunately his haphazard methods have not produced good repeatable data for replication by others. It is hit-and-miss affair. Not done under rigorous scientific conditions. Perhaps 3-phase Tesla coils might produce a really odd effects. Maybe that what the three balls are that you see under some pictures of supposed UFO's. Why don't you give it a try, Harvey ? Perhaps run it in a charged air enviroment and add some RF energy from some HF, VHF, UHF, and/or microwave sources. Adjust the various levels of RF, voltages, magnetic fields etc., until something happens. Maybe a table-top Hutchison effect device could be build on a smaller scale than the room size experiments that Huchison ran. I am sending the message to John Huchison also, maybe he would have some suggestions. Tim >Harvey said... > I have had a similar idea, not applied towards > electrogravity, but simply as a what if scenario as to > what if they did this in the mythical Philadelphia > Experiment. Essentially this is the same scenario I am > building. These are contained under the Stormy Weather > thread on my messageboard indexed at bottom of letter > as PX files of 9/19/00. In a > 3 phase motor the illusion of a rotating magnetic > field is made by having the full magnetic field of > each coil appear to rotate in space. Yet I know of not > a single experimentation where this polyphase > principle has been further applied to tesla coils. I > have called this the ring of fire possibility, that > will be shown as a triangular discharge between three > high voltage terminals charged by a 3 phase input. > That in itself would be easy to design, but further > study of delta and wye possibilities show that > something entirely different may be possible. In this > different possibility the same possibity of a binary >....................... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 7 00:04:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA01606; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 00:01:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 00:01:36 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <74.3ab9000.2710242d@aol.com> Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 03:01:01 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"bF9qk.0.kO.Dfitv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17055 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: WHEN can we tell OPEC we don't need your oil? I read the Tom Bearden papers. Three Ph.D'S, two B.S.'S Very interesting reading. I have respect for Mr. Bearden's work. I think he is on to something. He may have found a true "free energy source". Now what I want to know is, when can we tell OPEC we don't need your oil any more? When can I call the power company and tell them to come take their meter off my house? Six months, a year, six years, sixty years, when? When are we going to stop filling the patent office with paper and start running our homes with "free energy" ? When am I going to see a self sustaining "free energy" machine that will put out as much light as a fire fly's butt, and do it hour after hour, day after day, year after year? I'm am working day and night to build an overunity device. If I do I will put it on public display for the world to see. I will give away plans for free. I will power my home and car for the world to witness. I do know at the moment of one free energy device that could power New York City for a couple of years. It would be a steam powered generator that could be fueled by paper from all the "free energy" patents on file at the US patent office. Regards, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 7 01:09:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA14528; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 01:07:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 01:07:18 -0700 From: DEADWATE@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 04:06:41 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: WHEN can we tell OPEC we don't need your oil? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 107 Resent-Message-ID: <"8j_N_3.0.vY3.scjtv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17056 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ever thought of painting a bullseye on your back? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 7 10:31:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA31648; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 10:30:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 10:30:57 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <47.1c663cf.2710b7a7@aol.com> Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 13:30:15 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]:To bullseye (from Butch) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"xfvp4.0.Pk7.Gtrtv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17057 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 10/7/00 3:07:46 AM Central Daylight Time, DEADWATE@aol.com writes: > Ever thought of painting a bullseye on your back? If anyone has a bullseye on their back, it's the 5 guys that wrote that paper. Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 7 10:50:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA07563; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 10:50:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 10:50:00 -0700 Message-ID: <39DF6E83.ADFC185C@harti.com> Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 19:42:11 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Konzen , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <001501c03018$04a144c0$4cf2103f@old-konzen> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tmCSf2.0.yr1.89stv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17058 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Doug=B4s?= new alternator pulse motor > Doug Konzen wrote: > > Hi Stefan > > I'll try to answer your questions here - I like to answer all that > you send, so keep asking! > > > > > > Last night I just completed my own "dual" ignition points motor - > with one > > cam-lobe spinning and triggering two sets of points...this way I can > try the > > AC firing affect where I can hopefully dump the pickups and recoil > into the > > opposite firing.....havent run it yet - a couple more days > > Did you already run it ? > > DK: > I did get it going last night (10/5) with a 24V volt power supply and > it ran about 1500rpm tops maybe with the permanent magnet flux bridges > jsut being held in place, looking for the "sweet spot".... (explained > later below..)- without these, it went maybe 600rpm. I was worried > there would be too much friction from the huge alternator bearings but > it seemed to not mind once at speed. There were big bright sparks > from the points opening and closing for just an instant - I I tried to > make the length of the pulse-spark as small as possible by adjusting > the points to touch as little as possible. > I cannot adjust the motors timing while it is running (right now) with > the spark-system so I had to stop it and move things over to get the > timing right... > I think I could probably get 2000rpm out of it after some > tweaks..................there was a lot of heat from the points and > they seemed like they arent going to last too long like it is now. > When the testing was over, the points were very hot to the touch and > the color of the metal was changed too... very hot!! I see, yes, this is interesting ! It seems the negative resisitor point sparks also convert lots of spark heat into the points metal ! Maybe this could be used to heat something. BTW, how much power did go into the motor when running it at 1500 RPM ? 24 Volts x average DC amps in (measured via analog DC ampmeter) ? > > Do you put both point in series to get a faster current break ? > (This will by the way get better output power !) > > DK: > > No - I had one set of points fire it at 3:00, another at 9:00, so that > each of the points only fire once per revolution. So the points > arent either series or paralell to each other....they are just > seperate swithches (right now anyways) > I really want to know what you mean exactly by both points in series > to get a faster current break...does this mean that they both open at > the same time, and the current being switched through them runs in > series through both rather than paralell??? hhmmmm I'll try this!! Yes, exactly ! This is why there is then a larger current break, cause both points open at the same time and the total sum of contacts thus more rapidly open and thus more induction voltage builds up. The points are wired in series and thus there is sparking on both point, but one point is getting less sparking and this will help lasting the contacts longer, although more pints wired in series will also help to have more current flowing back to the battery during sparking ! I have seen this in my Newman coils experiments. The more spark gaps are in series which all open the contacts synchroneously, the better is the negative back current into the battery ! > Wouldndt a small AC cap across the points lessen the spark-flash?? The sparks are somehow needed to get the negative back current into the battery ! > Would this detract from the back EMF do you think??? Guess I'll have > to try to see......... Try to check the difference... > > > > > > I did ask him "where" he is taking the power from - and he didnt > really > > say - it must be the battery terminals, because he has no pickup > windings of > > any kind, or any rectified recoil circuit either. > > I see, let me know, when you know. > > DK: > > Still not sure exactly, but I still assume just the battery > terminals. He wrote me yesterday and said that his battery finally > ran down - he said that he was experimenting with putting a permanent > magnet right next to the points as they fire, and this was pulling the > "slag" produced across the points away, and he said that he thinks > this had something to do with the drain... he is having big slag > problems between the points...... I see, this is very interesting to me ! So it seems, when there is a 90 degrees magnet field to the spark, then the spark is not able to let the negative backcurrent pulses flow back to the battery and thus the battery will discharge ! Can you please verify this finding ? Try to put your 2 points in series, so it will generate less "slag" in each point and try to see, how 2 permanent magnets hold near the 2 points change the back current pulses and the total input current into your motor (try to see it with an analog amp meter inside the wires from the battery and also try to check this with a scope !) > > > > > > What really made his motor take off is the "permanent magnet flux > bridges" > > just past the stator coils that really increase the power after the > rotor is > > turned off dduring the spin - he said he got an increase of X 10 in > rpm and > > power!!! I usually only get an increase of X 3 when I install them. > > > What do you mean with > "permanent magnet flux bridges" > Where is it located ? > > DK: > > This is now the coolest thing about my motor design - these things are > sort of a secret thing (but on my website!) not that many have studied > or seen. It is fairly simple to understand.... > > My rotor is two Emagnets at 180degrees as you know spinning between > another two Emagnets (matching in impedance, windings, cores, etc.) > All the Emagnets are just the same in other words. > > This makes it so that you can wire it up so that the Emagnets when > lined up will ONLY push each other away, electromagnetically....this > is also why there is no transformer-type grab (and phase-lock) so that > you can extract current from each independent pair of pulsing Emagnets > (rotors and the stators) ...... I think you know all this already... > it is the basic EVGray design of motor - matched and colliding coils > that produce tons of back EMF... > > Now, what I found through simple experiments (holding Permanent > magnets or other ferrous material about an inch or so away- > "downstream"- from the STATORS so that these now-called PmagnetFBs > collide against the ROTOR) This will suddenly push the motor into much > greater speed and power. My theory is the Rotor is still energized > right after being turned off (of usually 10% duty cycle) and then when > the rotor smacks itself against the PmagnetFBs put into its path, the > polarity of the PmagnetFBs (only one way works) will smack the rotor > some more (Kicking a big Oscillation??)- (also for free! - there is no > current flow at this point of the rotation) and this secondary > collision will also be inducing more current into the rotor at the > same time, as shown by the secondary positive pulses on the > scope..... You have to see what this does to believe it. Really > powerful magnets will probably work even better. The positioning of > the Pmagnets is VERY critical - there are pictures of them on my site > about halfway down..... I see, yes, this sounds very realistic, cause the rotor electromagnets will flush their energy not instaneaously and the interaction will let them oscillate some more time until all Back-EMF energy is converted, thus, when they rotate on next to a permanent magnet, this could give the rotation another spinkick by repulsion. Did you try to stick behind the PM flux bridge also some more pickup coils ? These should also get energized by the changing PM fields ! Mabye just wire around the PM a coil and see how much "juice" you can get out of it...The PM field will get compressed during the rotor going by, so the PM field is changing, which will induce voltage into a coil would around or near the PM magnet. > > > My very latest motor I just replaced the rotor coils in there with a > > bi-filor one, and it really goes - my first run, the volts in the > > motor-battery shot stayed steady for ten minutes or so, and actually > went up > > a volt in the end, The "recharge" battery shot up to 15.6V before I > knew > > what was going on... this motor was running so incredible I shut it > down > > because it scared me and I want to save it for OU demos later on... > > Hmm, where do you use bifilar coils ? > > DK: > On this motor, just in the rotor. The pickup windings are wound > side-by side with the motor coil windings for 40 feet (length of > motor-coil windings) then the remaining length of "pickup/generator" > winding laid next to the "motor" windings is then wound back and forth > over and behind the entire motor-windings. there is 160ft of pickup > windings on each Emagnet of the rotor. there seems to be an increas > in power, just having them there, without them being connected - maybe > the induced current rocks back and forth, providng more power top the > motor... dont know - this is without the leads of the pickup windngs > attached together - just "free" > Hmm, I guess this must be analized some further with a scope before totally verified. I don´t have much of a clue, how this should work right now... > In your repelling stator and rotor coils ? > DK: > I could do the stators too, and there is more room there too to get > maybe 300feet of pickup windngs with a longer core too for more AC out > of the stators...... > > Or just in your pickup coils ?? > > DK: > Pickup coils are not bifilar but they could be! I tried some > experiments with this...20% incxrease in the HV"splatter" positioning > of the coils... but never mind about that right now......... Did you just only use bifilar coils there ? How do you think the voltage is induced into bifilar "HV- splatter-coil" ? Normally the bifilar winding does not support any voltage induction via a changing magnet field.... I would have guessed just only max. 10 % of the output of a normal HV splatter pickup coil... If your findings are real and not via another side-effect, then this bifilar windings has some interesting new effects I guess... > If they are used in your rotor and stator coils > I would be amazed, if this would work at all, cause > bifilar don´t put out magnet fields.. > > DK: > Its pretty simple - I run the AC output of the pickup windings into a > "dual-tank" circuit - which means a seperate battery or cap to > recharge, not connected to the main "motor" circuit at all. This > works great, and speeds the motor up too. This is how to extract from > the pickup windings without -bog-down or electromagneticc cancellation > problems..I did experiment some with this, and if I short the pickcup > winding leads together, there will be NO power just as you say, and if > I run it straight into the motor after being rectified, this too will > slow things...(usually but not always !?!) it needs to go into a > seperate "tank" then these things wont happen.... Hmm, seems to be strange, but it seems to work for you. Seems this needs more studying, why this is happening... > > but maybe if they are wound around a core ?? > DK: > Yes they all share the same core - when the motor windings pulses, so > will induced pulsing current be induced into the pickup windings. If > you dodnt have pickup windings around your motor coils, all the > opposite magnetic force (pull vs push) generateed from your motor > coils pulsing will be completely wasted. I see. > > > > > > > Seems now the enginnering of these motors is shifting to managing > the > > "exponential voltage rise" !!!!!!! > > > Where is this rise ? > DK: > maybe this is science-fiction, but rpm speed of the rotor is supposed > to increase exponenetially the outward kinetic force, and it seems > also (maybe) so does the generation of the "pickup windings" around > the motor coils I have seen - the faster the motor spins, the more AC > from them..... Yes, this is right, the higher the RPM also the higher is the dphi/dt flux change, which will induce more voltage into the output coils ! > > At the battery or where ? > DK: > Chuck Farrar was talking about an exponenetial battery-voltage rise > (from the battery leads I guess) > that he had to control by lots of lights...I havent seen this myself, > but my last test had something going on that was not normal = the > battery beiong charge leaped to 15.6V, and the motor-battery was up a > volt after 10 minutes.... I see, yes this could be due to the sparking effects having a great recharge effect onto the batteries ! >> What do you mean by exponential ?? > This is what is supposed to be happening when you reach OU...it is not > linear increase - it is exponenetial... > Lets say that you have a 200W generating OU system, and you decide to > add another 200W "feed" to the system, to hopefully double the power, > and then decide to ad even more later..look what will happen: > 200WX200W=400W 400WX400W=1600W 1600WX1600W =whateverW whateverW > XwhateverW =who knows whoknows X who knows = time warp and philadephia > experiment with dissapearing ships!! > This why I keep my motors power-input small, under 10W > I see, I understand now what you mean ! Yes, this could be. But I guess the real exiting thing is usig the spark gap points for the current switching ! Then these battery overcharge things happen ! > > > > > I still like mosfets, and want to try a NTE 2920 which have a > voltage drop > > of only .0012V !!! > > I see, yes, try it. > But with 2 or 3 spark gap points contacts in series > it will be much better, cause more sparks give more > negative energy flowing back to the battery ! > > DK: > I will try this tonight - I did notice that the spark-gap motor would > continually fluctuate the motor-battery voltage while checking it > across its terminals while the motor runs...with the mossfet-motor, it > would be pretty steady voltage for quite awhile, so hopefuylly it is > as you say - the sparks =having new and good qualities.. Yes, it also depends how many spark gaps are in series, so try to build more contacts in series, if you can manage this mechanically ! Maybe you can rotate on the shaft of the motor a few pairs of contacts which all are wired in series to switch the coils on and off.. By the way, in a normal alternator there are 3 output coils. Do you use only 2 coils of them for the stator coils ?? Good luck ! > > Ciao > Konehead > > > > -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 7 12:04:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA00661; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 12:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 12:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000b01c03091$52093460$473dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <200010050939.FAA20913@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <4.2.0.58.20001005212227.00c3d9f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 15:03:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"DLhY61.0.EA.LEttv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17059 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gentlemen; Latest word from Sam Faile: Sam did an experiment where he teased the leads apart on his 4 LED set-up, so that the LEDs were about 2 and a half feet apart. He used the break-out method again, and claims that the anomaly was still there, but diminished by about 30% as compared to when he re-measured values with the LEDs close packed next to each other. Maybe they are indeed cross-talking with EM noise. If I can get my credit card cleared off a little, I am still planning to get some of the GaN greens! I did have a chat with one of the physicists at work this morning re: quantum well LEDs. Apparently, unlike a conventional LED, these do indeed have a cavity that is sized to the output wavelength. Rather than a well or pit, the cavity is actually more like layers (or Casimir plates?) about 50nm apart. He said they most likely do have an IV curve like a tunnelling diode. Maybe at certain currents, the cavity itself starts oscillating. Just thoughts. Anything that tiny is generally on the edge of weirdness anyway. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 7 13:50:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA30756; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 13:49:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 13:49:35 -0700 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 16:47:48 -0400 (EDT) From: David Cyganski To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile In-Reply-To: <000b01c03091$52093460$473dee3f@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"IG4jk3.0.TW7.Vnutv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17060 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Nick Reiter wrote: > > Next the test circuit was wired. This was wired on a socket-type > > protoboard. No bypass capacitors were used in order to "see" the effect > > even if it was caused by RF effects as was conjectured in the list group. > > I figured it would be best to start by seeing the effect and then go about > > the job of determining its cause. > > ***** Again, very good. Sam's original designs, however have been very > loose and extended. His lead wires for inserting the meter during > "break-out" are fairly long, although the LED's are pretty close packed > together in a bundle. As I mentioned in the earlier note, I plan to "evolve" my circuit, step by step, from the current version into one like Sam's so as to see where along the way I make his observations. So, I will eventually get to the battery operated, long-lead state. > > > > After wiring the test circuit, I applied a voltage from a regulated power > > supply and adjusted it until approximately 10 mA flowed through each of > > the LEDs. The LEDs are specified as having a nominal operating current of > > 20 mA. By the way, wow are these bright! My first instinct on turning on > > the power was to flick it off before I burned them out. But, actually they > > are ok, just really really bright. > > ******* Very bright indeed. I will insert my most key comment here. The > current range you used with this test may be beyond the "anomaly" range, > which seems closer to cut-off. If you run further tests, I would turn the V > down to a level where you are achieving perhaps 1 to 2 mA per branch. As > Charlie indicated, this HF oscillation may be the key to the whole mess, and > it seems to do this at certain forward current levels. Or try again using a > battery set. I ran some additional tests this morning to test this hypothesis without any other alterations of my experimental design. Here are the tables (same format as before) for the results: Resistance Voltage Current R1 100.0 Ohms .220 V 2.200 mA R2 100.4 .160 1.594 R3 100.5 .189 1.881 R4 100.3 .223 2.223 R5 100.2 .217 2.166 R6 9.97 .1005 10.080 Sum of I1 to I5 10.063 Percent Diff from I6 = 0.17% Resistance Voltage Current R1 100.0 Ohms 0.1117 V 1.117 mA R2 100.4 0.0778 0.7749 R3 100.5 0.0967 0.9622 R4 100.3 0.1163 1.1595 R5 100.2 0.1106 1.1038 R6 9.97 .051 5.1153 Sum of I1 to I5 5.1174 Percent diff from I6 = -.04% Resistance Voltage Current R1 100.0 Ohms 0.0212 V 0.212 mA R2 100.4 0.0154 0.153 R3 100.5 0.0215 0.214 R4 100.3 0.0234 0.233 R5 100.2 0.0210 0.210 R6 9.97 .0103 1.033 Sum of I1 to I5 1.022 Pecent diff from I6 = 1.06% (I apologize ahead of time if some sharp eyed person finds a typo in the above; one gets pretty punchy on typing in such a table. The final results are correct despite a later copying error because the orginal values were carefully typed into a spreadsheet which did all the calculations. As the spreadsheet rounds off displayed values but not internal values, there may also be a small difference in the last digit of a sum compared to what you would get by adding the intermediate rounded values.) As can be seen, there is no indication of any anomolous behavior over the range of 2 mA, 1 mA and .2 mA average current through the LEDs. If the last test at .2 mA appears to "show signs" owing to the 1% error, I caution that it doesn't. The meter precision at that range dropped to three display digits. At that current level of .2 mA, the round-off error then became +/- 1/4% of each reading. Hence, on summing 5 such readings we obtain an error bar of +/- 5/4%. Hence the result is within the error bar. > > > > Now, I used the DVM to measure the voltage across each of the six > > resistors. This is listed in the second column of the table. Then using > > the calibrated resistance values, the current was calculated for each leg > > of the circuit as given in the third column. > > ******* Very interesting. This indeed is the usual way to read currents in > a circuit one wishes not to disturb. Might I suggest though, that you make > a comparison set of readings using the mA scale of your meter, and actually > doing a branch by branch break-out current test. If one gets a very > different set of readings, it may help pin down the mechanism behind the > discrepancy This will be my next "evolution" of the test. David From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 7 15:06:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA08983; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 15:06:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 15:06:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000001c030aa$bdebe1a0$353dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: Cc: Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 18:05:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C03089.2859CB00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"kT0z01.0.BC2.8vvtv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17061 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: links to quantum well information This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C03089.2859CB00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gentlemen; This is for any out there who are gluttons for long-haired device = theory in the realm of the Quantum Well LEDs (Faile effect, etc.) The following are links to assorted pages containing papers and = abstracts on quantum well devices. Most are well over me, but one can = pick out interesting tidbits. For example, in the papers linked in the = first two, there are some brief mention that at lower forward currents, = the GaN LEDs do indeed operate in a tunnelling mode. This seems to be = where the HF noise is generated, though curiously, that whole phenomenon = is sidestepped. The last link is a good near-lay paper on how quantum well devices are = made, and how they are structured. These really do look a lot like = Casimir effect plates. oh well, just for FYI NR http://nsr.mij.mrs.org/3/44/ http://nsr.mij.mrs.org/refs/jjap/1995/34-L1332.html http://www.stw.nl/projecten/G/gch3034.html http://www.ifm.liu.se/Matephys/AAnew/research/annrep/annrep97/arepiiiv.ht= m http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9709/Steigerwald-9709.html ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C03089.2859CB00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gentlemen;
 
   This is for any out there = who are=20 gluttons for long-haired device theory in the realm of the Quantum Well = LEDs=20 (Faile effect, etc.)
 
The following are links to assorted = pages=20 containing papers and abstracts on quantum well devices.  Most are = well=20 over me, but one can pick out interesting tidbits.  For example, in = the=20 papers linked in the first two, there are some brief mention that at = lower=20 forward currents, the GaN LEDs do indeed operate in a tunnelling = mode. =20 This seems to be where the HF noise is generated, though curiously, that = whole=20 phenomenon is sidestepped.
 
The last link is a good near-lay paper = on how=20 quantum well devices are made, and how they are structured.  These = really=20 do look a lot like Casimir effect plates.
 
oh well, just for FYI
 
NR
 
http://nsr.mij.mrs.org/3/44/
 
http://nsr.m= ij.mrs.org/refs/jjap/1995/34-L1332.html
 
http://www.stw.nl/pro= jecten/G/gch3034.html
 
http://www.ifm.liu.se/Matephys/AAnew/research/annrep/annrep97/= arepiiiv.htm
 
= http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9709/Steigerwald-9709.html
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C03089.2859CB00-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 7 16:54:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA20326; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 16:53:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 16:53:10 -0700 Message-ID: <39DFC3E2.5A90D23E@harti.com> Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 01:46:26 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , Newman-L Mailing List X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5pQ6D.0.Kz4.cTxtv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17062 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! http://buerger.metropolis.de/drax22/ Only in German language, but it states that it is many times OU in H2 and O2 gas energy production compared to the electrical input at 923 Hz. Maybe the silver plated copper electrode has some effect due to the silver plating acting as an additional catalysator ? Regards, Stefan. -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Andreas Hecht An: bos-list@sax.de Datum: Samstag, 7. Oktober 2000 23:58 Betreff: BoS: Webseite zur HF-Elektrolyse! > >Hi Liste, > >eben habe ich im Webkatalog den folgenden Neueintrag freigeschalten: > >"Experiment zur Hochfrequenz-Analyse von Wasser" >http://buerger.metropolis.de/drax22/ > >Ich glaube, ich setz' mich sofort hin und und probier' das mal, denn >wenn das stimmt, was der anonyme Autor (der Name im Katalog stammt >aus dem author-tag der Seite) da schreibt, dann ist es eine kleine >Sensation.... > > >regards, >Andreas > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 7 17:17:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA26980; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 17:16:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 17:16:43 -0700 Message-ID: <005e01c0307c$3e396280$bee5b5d0@a9o0z0> From: "Alik S" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit /streetlamps Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 16:32:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"cZ_EY2.0.Tb6.gpxtv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17063 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com -----Original Message----- From: Michael T Huffman To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, October 05, 2000 9:40 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile >What intrigues me is that the street lamps outside my apartment building in >Seattle used to go off nearly every time I went outdoors at night. Most of >the time, it was just the lamp right by the door, but there were times when >six blocks in both directions would go out, and it was always when I was in >very deep thought or concentration. It would startle the heck out of me. > >I've always wondered what could do that, and it always seemed to me that >there must be something in the photoelectric light detection units that was >being fooled into thinking that I was a light source. I think now though, >that perhaps there is a coupling frequency (very high) that mingles with or >can interact with background radiation or push gravity radiation, and that >the EM from my brain could have affected the solid state switching circuits >on that particular brand of lamps if they contained any silicon with There was a letter in Nexus for Jul/Aug/Sept ? from a fellow in Albuquerque who videotaped the "streetlamp effect". In his case it seems to work like a clock. I was always curios about same thing because lamps seem to temporarily die when I pass them (never 6 blocks though :-) There is a patent for an earthquake picker-upper based on photocells kept in the dark which may vaguely support some sort of interaction between weird energies and photocells. The other possibility is that it is the plasma in the bulb that is sensitive to people walking by. Re diode. Years ago I was fooling around with a dozen red LEDs hooked by one terminal to an RF signal generator. Got effects vaguely similar to what Nick describes and eventually traced them to interaction of RF with scope probe/leads. One neat side-effect of that circuit was that you could make LEDs light up by just touching the plastic lens when one leg was fed RF. Only wisdom here is that if RF is involved beware of probes/leads/long-wires. Ferrite beads can help sometimes. Alik S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 7 20:39:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA12702; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 20:38:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 20:38:46 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <15.a2d883f.2711461f@aol.com> Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 23:38:07 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"w5p2W2.0.F63.6n-tv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17064 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Rebuilding the LaFonte Research Group web site Hi all, The LaFonte Research Group site is closed down for a short period for these reasons. I get the feeling that people can't understand how the device works that I have on the group site. I need to present it in more simple terms. Also I think there is to much on the site and it confuses people. I will blow away all the old fabrication drawings and such. It just was not what it needed to be, short and simple. I will include an audio/video to better explain things also. The address will remain the same. Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 7 21:03:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA18083; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 21:03:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 21:03:10 -0700 Message-ID: <003201c030da$41388200$7e736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: WHEN can we tell OPEC we don't need your oil? Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 20:45:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"d4ZQ1.0.OQ4.-7_tv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17065 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com why would he paint a bullseye on his back? i thought his post was very respectful and important. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:06 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: WHEN can we tell OPEC we don't need your oil? > Ever thought of painting a bullseye on your back? > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 7 21:25:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA24304; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 21:23:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 21:23:10 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001007231216.00cb78c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 23:25:10 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit /streetlamps In-Reply-To: <005e01c0307c$3e396280$bee5b5d0@a9o0z0> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"62nnO1.0.ex5.jQ_tv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17066 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Um.. Street lights Typically use a high pressure heat excited gas method. This type of lamp periodically blinks off because they have a narrow temperature range in which they will function. The lamp will experience thermal shutdown then go into a re-start process periodically. The observation that you happen to notice it when you are in deep concentration or just going down the street is simply an indication that you are not noticing it at other times... There is nothing abnormal here... Sometimes a reflection or a bit of moisture in the sensor circuit (cadmium sulfate) will cause then to false trigger shutting down an entire bank of lamps. At 04:32 PM 10/7/00 +0000, you wrote: > >What intrigues me is that the street lamps outside my apartment building in > >Seattle used to go off nearly every time I went outdoors at night. Most of > >the time, it was just the lamp right by the door, but there were times when > >six blocks in both directions would go out, and it was always when I was in > >very deep thought or concentration. It would startle the heck out of me. Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 7 21:34:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA27443; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 21:34:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 21:34:15 -0700 Message-Id: <200010080434.e984Y9I27752@home.karahalios.org> Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 21:34:08 -0700 Reply-To: Alex@Karahalios.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.337) From: Alex Karahalios To: Free Energy Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v337) Subject: Re: [FG]: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA27421 Resent-Message-ID: <"inswD.0.ii6.6b_tv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17067 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Saturday, October 7, 2000, at 05:46 PM, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > http://buerger.metropolis.de/drax22/ > > Only in German language, > but it states that it is many times OU > in H2 and O2 gas energy production compared > to the electrical input at 923 Hz. > The web page isn't clear about if this is 923Hz AC or pulsed DC - or the type of waveform. Anyone know? Alex Karahalios From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 7 22:29:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA05855; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 22:29:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 22:29:04 -0700 Message-ID: <00fb01c030e8$a3f8a060$0301a8c0@m> From: "Michael Randall" To: , "Free Energy" , , References: <39DFC3E2.5A90D23E@harti.com> Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 22:28:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"lp93R3.0.GR1.WO0uv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17068 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! Interesting photo's of the tremendous amount of gases produced with just 4.8 VDC @ 300mA. It looks like the frequency is AC? In the section "The Proof" is the analogy of breaking a spoon by continual bending back and forth by "even oscillation." The electrodes also look like wires coiled w/6 turns. Maybe the coiling also produces a unique effect? The 2 electrodes are also pointing upward and maybe also focusing to a central point? Regards, Michael Randall ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Hartmann" To: "Free Energy" ; ; ; "Newman-L Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 5:46 PM Subject: [FG]: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! > http://buerger.metropolis.de/drax22/ > > Only in German language, > but it states that it is many times OU > in H2 and O2 gas energy production compared > to the electrical input at 923 Hz. > Maybe the silver plated copper > electrode has some effect due to the silver > plating acting as an additional catalysator ? > > Regards, Stefan. > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Andreas Hecht > An: bos-list@sax.de > Datum: Samstag, 7. Oktober 2000 23:58 > Betreff: BoS: Webseite zur HF-Elektrolyse! > > > > > >Hi Liste, > > > >eben habe ich im Webkatalog den folgenden Neueintrag freigeschalten: > > > >"Experiment zur Hochfrequenz-Analyse von Wasser" > >http://buerger.metropolis.de/drax22/ > > > >Ich glaube, ich setz' mich sofort hin und und probier' das mal, denn > >wenn das stimmt, was der anonyme Autor (der Name im Katalog stammt > >aus dem author-tag der Seite) da schreibt, dann ist es eine kleine > >Sensation.... > > > > > >regards, > >Andreas > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 7 22:44:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA09522; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 22:43:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 22:43:55 -0700 Message-Id: <200010080543.e985hqI28223@home.karahalios.org> Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 22:43:49 -0700 Reply-To: Alex@Karahalios.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.337) From: Alex Karahalios To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v337) Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA09501 Resent-Message-ID: <"MdawW1.0.hK2.Rc0uv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17069 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like he is using just plain water. I didn't see any mention of an electrolyte. I wonder if the frequency is a function of the distance of the electrodes? In the Xogen patent discussed previously, they used 10-250kHz, but used pulsed DC with a 10:1 duty cycle. Alex Karahalios From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 7 23:28:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA17732; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 23:27:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 23:27:32 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001007231216.00cb78c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> References: <4.2.0.58.20001007231216.00cb78c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 20:27:22 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit /streetlamps Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"PnRZc3.0.yK4.IF1uv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17070 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Um.. Street lights Typically use a high pressure heat excited gas >method. This type of lamp periodically blinks off because they have >a narrow temperature range in which they will function. The lamp >will experience thermal shutdown then go into a re-start process >periodically. The observation that you happen to notice it when >you are in deep concentration or just going down the street is >simply an indication that you are not noticing it at other times... > >There is nothing abnormal here... > >Sometimes a reflection or a bit of moisture in the sensor circuit >(cadmium sulfate) will cause then to false trigger shutting down an >entire bank of lamps. What's "normal"? A sensitive nearly worn out streetlight will go off if you pass under or near it. Tesla's sensitive brushes would swivel when someone got anywhere near them - quite a few yards away. Probably a similar mechanism at its root cause. But are we sure that's all? Some years ago I also did the test where I had a sensitive streetlight that would trip if I concentrated on it. I moved further and further back and could still trip it off from several blocks away. This *could* have been random events repeatedly and coincidently aligning with my distinct events of effort at turning it off, but I'm not totally convinced either way having done and seen this firsthand. The correlation seemed very high - it was usually immediate when I focused my attention intently on the light. It certainly IS weird if not "abnormal". So I can't claim brainwaves trip the lights, but I know those lights near failure can be very sensitive, and it wouldn't surprise me if they did respond to something as faint as remote brain waves. John Schnurer designed apparatus that can respond to brainwaves and control machinery. It would be no great surprise that a great sensitivity to such waves developed naturally by happenstance in some of those delicately balanced plasma discharges. Needs more investigation. This is a subject that I've always felt was a little bit important somehow, as trivial as it initially seems. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 7 23:41:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA20849; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 23:40:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 23:40:45 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01c030f2$4d459ac0$30d4ddd1@x2001> From: "2001" To: , "Free Energy" , , , "Newman-L Mailing List" Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 23:37:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C030B7.9DE2AA80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"-5-OD3.0.c55.jR1uv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17071 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Splitting Water, 923Hz, in ENGLISH This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C030B7.9DE2AA80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable GO Translator ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C030B7.9DE2AA80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A= =0A= GO Translator=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C030B7.9DE2AA80-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 7 23:59:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA25400; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 23:57:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 23:57:27 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39DFC86B.C5B6A5A5@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 20:05:47 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6Zg3e3.0.iC6.Nh1uv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17072 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Found on a message board for a local eco-commune, a diode based Free NRG device http://www.net22.com/dreamtime/wwwboard/messages/432.html An array of diodes can convert ambient heat to power.... Anyone willin to try? :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 8 00:02:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA27116; Sun, 8 Oct 2000 00:02:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 00:02:18 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39DFC9A5.6E8616BC@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 20:11:01 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wPVM_2.0.Xd6.wl1uv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17073 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: More on diode patent... http://www.delphion.com/details?&pn=US03890161__ More info on it.... Perhaps this is what the LED effect is? ;) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 8 00:04:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA28017; Sun, 8 Oct 2000 00:03:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 00:03:54 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39DFCA00.C792F993@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 20:12:32 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"M71G7.0.Ur6.Pn1uv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17074 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: More on the diode.... Ack, I shouldn't have hit "SEND" so soon.... :) But it seems this works with diodes hooked in PARRALLEL... :) Intresting... :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 8 03:20:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA18582; Sun, 8 Oct 2000 03:14:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 03:14:11 -0700 Message-ID: <39E05561.A40466EC@harti.com> Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 12:07:13 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex@Karahalios.org, "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <200010080543.e985hqI28223@home.karahalios.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"L4Fl02.0.BY4.pZ4uv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17075 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! He said, he also used 0.1 Liter of 30 % concentration H2SO4 accid with it to increase the ions in the 1.1 Liter water. Maybe also the silver plated copper wire electrodes have a catalysator effect ? Yes, please try it with a reactangular wave and try to alter pulse width. Use 0 to 5 Volts pulse waves and see, what current you can get through your water... With the pulse/pause relationship you can adjust the average current through the water ! Maybe the spiralling of the electrodes also helps ?? Good luck ! Regards, Stefan. Alex Karahalios schrieb: > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like he is using just plain water. I didn't see any mention of an electrolyte. I wonder if the frequency is a function of the distance of the electrodes? > > In the Xogen patent discussed previously, they used 10-250kHz, but used pulsed DC with a 10:1 duty cycle. > > Alex Karahalios -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 8 08:18:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA30803; Sun, 8 Oct 2000 08:15:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 08:15:07 -0700 Message-ID: <000201c0313a$94917a00$12ff08d0@default> From: "Larry Canada" To: References: <9d.b9a9289.270ecd27@aol.com> Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 05:46:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"u7TLq3.0.8X7.xz8uv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17076 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: (IMPORTANT) The Motionless Electromagnetic Generator from Tom Bearden Can someone explain to me in simple terms or comparison the "magnetic A and B-fields" or vectors? Larry From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 8 08:54:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA07201; Sun, 8 Oct 2000 08:51:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 08:51:11 -0700 Message-ID: <004a01c030fe$cb839ac0$74e5b5d0@a9o0z0> From: "Alik S" To: Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 08:07:24 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"eHt192.0.Mm1.lV9uv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17077 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: fusiongizmo http://www.singtech.com/contents.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 8 12:40:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA20005; Sun, 8 Oct 2000 12:38:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 12:38:12 -0700 From: tv@juno.com To: harti@harti.com Cc: Alex@Karahalios.org, jlnlabs@egroups.com, ou-builders@egroups.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 12:40:31 -0700 Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! Message-ID: <20001008.124037.-237599.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1,3-8 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"AtQ7a3.0.Pu4.aqCuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17078 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Silver plated wire should be easy to make. Simply plate with soldering iron and silver solder like you can buy at radio shack. The silver solder is not pure silver but worth a try I think. Tim >Maybe also the silver plated copper wire electrodes have a catalysator From: "2001" To: References: <20001008.124037.-237599.0.tv@juno.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 14:08:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"6rC9i2.0.rl5.9aEuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17079 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Unfortunately, silver solder is only around 2% silver. You can electroplate the electrodes using a very small piece of silver and the appropriate chemicals, however I would first get a copy of George Wiseman's book http://eagle-research.com/index.html and find out why he uses aluminum to split water. Also consider nickel: http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/sci/tech/9412TUMEPM.html Best regards, Bil ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: ; ; ; ; Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! > Silver plated wire should be easy to make. Simply plate with soldering > iron and silver solder > like you can buy at radio shack. The silver solder is not pure silver > but worth a try I think. > > Tim > > >Maybe also the silver plated copper wire electrodes have a catalysator > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 8 15:26:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA06581; Sun, 8 Oct 2000 15:26:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 15:26:03 -0700 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 18:25:53 -0400 Message-Id: <200010082225.SAA29411@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit /streetlamps Resent-Message-ID: <"wKVDL3.0.kc1.wHFuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17080 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com cjford writes: >Sometimes a reflection or a bit of moisture in the sensor circuit (cadmium >sulfate) will cause then to false trigger shutting down an entire bank of >lamps. What? Moisture in Seattle? Naaa... It could be that what you are saying is quite right, I don't know. The one right outside the door on the Broadway exit side went off nearly every single time though. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 8 15:33:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA09417; Sun, 8 Oct 2000 15:33:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 15:33:40 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 09:33:04 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <200010080543.e985hqI28223@home.karahalios.org> <39E05561.A40466EC@harti.com> In-Reply-To: <39E05561.A40466EC@harti.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA09385 Resent-Message-ID: <"hN-K42.0.2J2.3PFuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17081 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Stefan Hartmann's message of Sun, 08 Oct 2000 12:07:13 +0100: >He said, >he also used 0.1 Liter of 30 % concentration H2SO4 accid >with it to increase the ions in the 1.1 Liter water. > >Maybe also the silver plated copper wire electrodes have a catalysator >effect ? H2SO4 + 2Ag -> 2Ag+ + SO4-- + 2 H Ag+ + Ag++ + H -> Hy +Ag + Ag+++ (Mills hydrino formation). Hy + Ag -> Pd + He4 + 5-6 MeV (energetic alpha particle). Each energetic alpha splits thousands of water molecules according to radiolysis, and also ionises hundreds or even thousands of Ag+ and Ag generating lots of Ag++. What we appear to have here is a lucky combination. The silver acts both as a Mills catalyst, and as a nuclear fuel, producing only harmless alpha particles. To make matters even more interesting, as well as producing copious amounts of energy, you end up converting silver into palladium (thereby increasing its value about 100 fold 8-)}}}. (So don't throw away the slops!) I would suggest trying the addition of a small amount of a silver salt (preferably silver sulphate?), to the solution. The function of the frequency may be to break up the water "cages" which tend to surround ions in solution. If you can't get this to auto-start, then try holding a smoke detector close to the cathode. The few gamma generated by the Am241 should be enough to get it going (provided my speculation is correct). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 8 18:24:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA10993; Sun, 8 Oct 2000 18:23:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 18:23:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000d01c0318f$835a6e40$333dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <200010082225.SAA29411@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit /streetlamps Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 21:23:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"HsLF82.0.fh2.duHuv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17082 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gentlemen; The streetlamp interference effect (SLI) has been written up in several good papers, that shouldn't be too hard to find on-line. The best one was Hilary Evans "The SLI Effect" from 1993. I remain pretty neutral on the topic, finding a pretty strong argument for the possibility that it all does work out statistically, with the added help of coincidental observation. But then again, maybe not. Evans claimed that it did indeed seem to defy probability, but could find no correlation to weather, time, location, or mental states of the observer. It just seems to happen to some people... NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 8 21:06:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA12159; Sun, 8 Oct 2000 21:04:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 21:04:53 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001008230245.00c9d220@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 23:05:14 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit /streetlamps In-Reply-To: <200010082225.SAA29411@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"7n0El.0.uz2.bFKuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17083 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gee we don't seem to be having many moisture problems here... in Fort Worth.... I do vaguely remember it has to do with some strange liquid that once opon a time fell from the sky At 06:25 PM 10/8/00 -0400, you wrote: >cjford writes: > >Sometimes a reflection or a bit of moisture in the sensor circuit (cadmium > >sulfate) will cause then to false trigger shutting down an entire bank of > >lamps. > >What? Moisture in Seattle? Naaa... It could be that what you are saying >is quite right, I don't know. The one right outside the door on the >Broadway exit side went off nearly every single time though. > >Knuke > > >Michael T. Huffman >Huffman Technology Company >1121 Dustin Drive >The Villages, Florida 32159 >(352)259-1276 >knuke@LCIA.COM >http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 8 21:33:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA20511; Sun, 8 Oct 2000 21:33:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 21:33:22 -0700 From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 20:55:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! Message-ID: <20001008.213504.-411587.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,6-9,11-13,16-36 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"KlX0T3.0.I05.IgKuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17084 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com You are right about the silver solder. I tried the experiment described on the web page with copper wire coated with 2% silver solder. I got many small bubbles bubbles but nothing like the pictures on the web page. http://buerger.metropolis.de/drax22/ I tried switching the 4 volt DC with 2N3055 transistor driven by the TTL output of my function generator. It switched fine and the electrolysis worked about the same in pulse mode as DC. I did not have any H2SO4 (sulfuric acid) on hand so I tried some HCl (Hydrochloric Acid) instead. I will get some H2SO4 and try that instead. Also will try to get some silver or silver plated wire. I have to do exactly what is described to give it an honest try. Thanks for the references below. Tim On Sun, 8 Oct 2000 14:08:33 -0700 "2001" writes: > Unfortunately, silver solder is only around 2% silver. > You can electroplate the electrodes using a very > small piece of silver and the appropriate chemicals, > however I would first get a copy of George > Wiseman's book http://eagle-research.com/index.html > and find out why he uses aluminum to split water. > Also consider nickel: > http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/sci/tech/9412TUMEPM.html > > Best regards, > > Bil From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 8 22:04:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA30667; Sun, 8 Oct 2000 22:04:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 22:04:33 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20001008220257.1ccf00f4@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 22:02:57 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: (IMPORTANT) The Motionless Electromagnetic Generator from Tom Bearden In-Reply-To: <000201c0313a$94917a00$12ff08d0@default> References: <9d.b9a9289.270ecd27@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"IRLbW2.0.4V7.X7Luv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17085 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Larry, At 05:46 AM 10/7/00 -0600, you wrote: >Can someone explain to me in simple terms or comparison the "magnetic A and >B-fields" or vectors? The A field is a vector field produced by a current and is generally in the same direction as the current. The B field can be calculated from the A field by a formula of the spatial slopes of the A field, the "curl". The A field is sometimes called the "magnetic vector potential" The B or magnetic flux density field is what you think of with magnetic forces, etc. as the "magnetic field". Do you have a more specific question? Here is a physics page, but you may not consider it simple? http://www.physics.gla.ac.uk/~dland/ELMAG305/em11p/ -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 05:18:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA04125; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 05:17:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 05:17:41 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 23:17:06 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <8ld3ussclk5rnc1b3e4k0u72u4svtqh6st@4ax.com> References: <20001008.213504.-411587.0.tv@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20001008.213504.-411587.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id FAA04088 Resent-Message-ID: <"blW983.0.M01.aTRuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17086 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to tv@juno.com's message of Sun, 8 Oct 2000 20:55:33 -0700: [snip] >I did not have any H2SO4 (sulfuric acid) on hand so I tried some HCl >(Hydrochloric Acid) instead. I will get some H2SO4 and try that instead. > Also will try to get some silver or silver plated wire. > >I have to do exactly what is described to give it an honest try. > >Thanks for the references below. > >Tim [snip] Mills says that potassium works best with the carbonate, so the anion could be important. I suspect that sulphate is much larger than chloride. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 11:53:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA14853; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:52:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:52:44 -0700 Date: 09 Oct 2000 20:39:00 +0100 From: freenrg_list@sigma.sax.de (Andreas Hecht) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: <7nXH2kBeL$B@sigma.sax.de> In-Reply-To: <20001008.213504.-411587.0.tv@juno.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! X-Mailer: CrossPoint v3.12d R/B9504 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Organization: private site in germany; member of SaxNet e.V. Resent-Message-ID: <"w479K3.0.-d3.yFXuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17087 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com tv wrote: > I got many small bubbles bubbles but nothing like the pictures > on the web page. > > http://buerger.metropolis.de/drax22/ > > I tried switching the 4 volt DC with 2N3055 transistor driven > by the TTL output of my function generator. It switched fine > and the electrolysis worked about the same in pulse mode as > DC. > > I did not have any H2SO4 (sulfuric acid) on hand so I tried > some HCl (Hydrochloric Acid) instead. I will get some H2SO4 > and try that instead. Also will try to get some silver or > silver plated wire. > > I have to do exactly what is described to give it an honest > try. The 'experiment' described at the above URL is in all probability a hoax! A subscriber of the german BoS mailing list has given the following hint: Try to reverse the name of the author: tanimulli <|> illuminat I don't no - if I look at the pictures on this page, it seems one has used mains voltage instead of 4.8 V @ 300mA! regards, Andreas -- mail: @home: ahecht@sigma.sax.de @work: ahecht@lst-ost.db.de fone: @home: +49-3523 63537 voice/fax @anywhere: +49-172-580 1163 ************************************************************************ Visit the Borderlands of Science! http://www.borderlands.de/ ************************************************************************ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 12:04:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA19253; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:04:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:04:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:04:11 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001007231216.00cb78c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"OXZQi.0.Xi4.mQXuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17088 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Streetlights: PK evidence or just a myth? On Sat, 7 Oct 2000, Charles Ford wrote: > Um.. Street lights Typically use a high pressure heat excited gas > method. This type of lamp periodically blinks off because they have a > narrow temperature range in which they will function. The lamp will > experience thermal shutdown then go into a re-start process > periodically. The observation that you happen to notice it when you are > in deep concentration or just going down the street is simply an indication > that you are not noticing it at other times... That would explain many of the reports. Yet we must ask ourselves, wouldn't some people encounter the opposite effect and become convinced that they had the power to TURN ON streetlights? No, not if streetlights turn on very slowly but go dark suddenly. SOme types do. Others don't. The sodium floodlight in the parking lot at work constantly cycles on and off, both quenching suddenly and lighting suddenly. However, some people claim that streetlights will turn off one after another as they travel along, including travelling fast in cars. If there was some sort of genuine psychkenetic effect, then that's just what we'd expect to find. Random quenching of streetlights can fool people into thinking that they are causing the lights to go dark. However, the random quenching of streetlights can convince the skeptics to ignore genuine psychic phenomena. It's the statistics of *CHAINS* of streetlight darkenings which would decide the issue. If certain people commonly see long chains of streelights go dark in sequence as they pass by, then it's not just caused by random darkenings. ELECTRIC PEOPLE, STREETLIGHTS, ETC. http://www.amasci.com/weird/unusual/zap.html ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 12:24:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA25717; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:23:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:23:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:23:36 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: fusiongizmo In-Reply-To: <004a01c030fe$cb839ac0$74e5b5d0@a9o0z0> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Aef9N2.0.kH6.3jXuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17089 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 8 Oct 2000, Alik S wrote: > > http://www.sngtech.com/contents.html This is C. Cagel's website. He is one of the very few people who has been thrown off of FREENRG-L. Also, of the huge number of "crackpots" that I've ever met on internet, he's the only one who I consider dangerously insane. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 13:13:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA11222; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 13:12:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 13:12:18 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [162.39.245.203] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: fusiongizmo Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:12:13 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Oct 2000 20:12:13.0398 (UTC) FILETIME=[36668760:01C0322D] Resent-Message-ID: <"MHAxB1.0.Fl2.YQYuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17090 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I've always considered you dangerously insane - in a likable sort of way. I mean after all there is that lex luthor death ray thing. Colin >From: William Beaty >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: [FG]: fusiongizmo >Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:23:36 -0700 (PDT) > >On Sun, 8 Oct 2000, Alik S wrote: > > > > > http://www.sngtech.com/contents.html > >This is C. Cagel's website. He is one of the very few people who has been >thrown off of FREENRG-L. Also, of the huge number of "crackpots" that >I've ever met on internet, he's the only one who I consider dangerously >insane. > > >((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) >William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website >billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com >EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science >Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 13:55:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA25338; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 13:55:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 13:54:56 -0700 Message-ID: <39E23BBC.4EFE72B8@harti.com> Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 22:42:20 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adolf Schneider CC: "Ph. Mikas" , Walter Zweifel , Erwin Schneeberger , Werner =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=FCckkamp?= , "R.Gottschalg" , Florian Niederhauser , Andreas Manthey , "Dr. Igor Kulikov" , Claudia =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=F6reth?= , Hans Holzherr , Wolfgang Heger , Andreas Hecht , fhowar , Stefan Farwick , Wofgang Czapp X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <00a801c03174$57a56b80$4700fed4@adolf.schneider> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UYbKW.0.kB6.W2Zuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17091 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: water electrolysis heat cell Hi, here is an interesting new heat cell ! Does this also work via cold fusion ? > The Dave Hinkson Heat Cell > (A Method of Producing Heat With Greater Than 100% Efficiency) > Copyright (C) 1999 by Robert Preston Sandberg & David R. Hinkson > Sometime during 1991, an experimenter by the name of Dave Hinkson was > manufacturing colloidal silver using an electrolytic method. In order to > increase production he built a large electrolytic cell and connected it to a > large tank of water through a pump. The pump circulated water from the tank > (a 1200 gallon tank) through the electrolytic cell and back to the tank. > The process was begun by running tap water through a two stage reverse > osmosis filtration system. This produced very pure water which was used to > fill the tank and electrolytic cell. Next the pump was turned on to > circulate the water through the entire system. Next the power was applied > to the cell. The next step was to add a little salt to the water while > monitoring the current flow through the electrolytic cell. The idea was to > add just enough salt to allow a little current to flow through the cell. > The salt was necessary because the water was so pure that almost no current > would flow unless a little salt was added. > The electrolytic cell was built of clear plastic. The exact dimensions are > not critical. However, for the sake of preserving the historical record I > will give them here. The cell was about 29 inches long, 13 inches wide and > 15 inches high. There was an electrode of 999 fine silver plate 9 inches > wide and 27 inches long mounted about 4.5 inches from the bottom of the > cell. There was a platinum plated niobium metal screen about 8 inches wide > and 24 inches long mounted parallel to and about 8.25 inches above the > silver plate. The silver electrode was connected to the positive side of > the power supply and the platinum plated electrode was connected to the > negative side. > The water entered the cell below the silver plate. It then passed through > 14 little plastic tubes arranged with one row of seven tubes on each side of > the silver plate. The tubes discharged the water into the space between the > two electrodes at a distance about 4 inches above the silver plate. There > the water was exposed to the electrolytic process and passed through the > metal screen of the top electrode, exited the cell at the top and flowed > back to the tank. > Power for the electrolytic cell was provided by a very simple power supply. > A 220 volt line ran into a general purpose transformer. This transformer, > rated at 10 KVA, was, as you will see later, vastly over rated for the > application. It was manufactured by Acme Transformer Company. The > transformer, catalogue number T-2-53516-3S/style SR, was designed to > function as a step down transformer to drop voltages from the 240 volt or > 480 volt range down to the 120 volt or 240 volt range. To accomplish this > it had multiple taps on both primary and secondary windings. These multiple > taps made it possible to obtain many different voltages on the output side. > Dave used this transformer to step up the output voltage into the 600 volt > to 900 volt range. Such high voltages were necessary because of the purity > of the water and the large gap separating the electrodes. > The output of the transformer was fed into a full wave rectifier. The > output of the rectifier was fed directly into the electrolytic cell without > any electrical filtering. Therefore, the cell was being fed with pulsing DC > at high voltage. > Dave measured the current flow into the electrolytic cell as he added just > enough salt to get current to flow. At the beginning of the process, the > amount of current flowing was almost zero. Dave would then add just enough > salt to raise the current flow into the 0.0001 Amp range. > The cell produced colloidal silver as expected. However, it also produced > an enormous and entirely unexpected amount of heat. The amount of heat was > so great that after 6 hours of operation, the entire 1200 gallons of water > was boiling! This heat caused the electrolytic cell to leak water and Dave > would have to shut the process down at that point. > Any electrician or high school science student could tell you that Volts > multiplied times Amperes equals Watts, which is a standard measurement of > electrical power. In this device, there was a total power consumption of > 0.0001 Ampere X 900 Volts = 0.9 Watts or 0.9 Joules/second. Over the six > hour period of operation the cell only consumed 0.9 Watts X 6 hours = 5.4 > Watt hours or 0.0054 kilowatt hours. > A rough calculation of the energy needed to raise 1200 gallons of water > from a temperature of 68 degrees Fahrenheit to 212 degrees Fahrenheit > results in a figure of about 1.522 billion Joules. That converts to about > 70.49 kilowatt hours. By simple calculations 100 x (70.49 kWh - 0.0054 > kWh)/0.0054 kWh = 1,305,266 % efficiency. In other words, this cell is > producing heat at over 13,000 times unity! > Some general comments are in order. First, the electrode materials are not > critical. This works if stainless steel is used to replace the platinum > plated niobium screen. The platinum was used because stainless steel > corrodes over time and platinum does not corrode. Second, the greater the > gap between electrodes, the greater the heat production. Third, within > reason, the more salt added, the greater the heat output. > A greater gap requires more voltage to drive the cell. A greater gap may > also require more salt in the water. At this stage we do not know which > variables are the critical ones. Is the higher voltage responsible for the > heat production, or is it the salt, or is it the gap itself? It is also > unknown if the heat would be produced with filtered DC or if the pulsing DC > is required to produce the heat. These are important questions that need to > be answered. > Fortunately, this is an easy device to work with. The dimensions are not > critical, the materials are not critical, the voltages are not critical. > The heat is easy to produce. It is our hope that many people will > successfully duplicate this heat cell and spread the good news far and wide. > > Good luck! > -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 16:25:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA07776; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:24:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:24:28 -0700 Message-ID: <39E257A1.9F0D7126@harti.com> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 00:41:21 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <00a801c03174$57a56b80$4700fed4@adolf.schneider> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"W3GfC1.0.Dv1.iEbuv"@mx1> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17094 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Pretty good fake ! Look again now, what the author writes now... http://buerger.metropolis.de/drax22/ -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 16:29:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA06745; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:23:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:23:20 -0700 Message-ID: <00da01c03245$bf500ac0$3bd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: fusiongizmo Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:07:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"2t7F22.0.Bf1.eDbuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17092 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com A few french fries short of a happy meal... -----Original Message----- From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Monday, October 09, 2000 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: fusiongizmo >On Sun, 8 Oct 2000, Alik S wrote: > >> >> http://www.sngtech.com/contents.html > >This is C. Cagel's website. He is one of the very few people who has been >thrown off of FREENRG-L. Also, of the huge number of "crackpots" that >I've ever met on internet, he's the only one who I consider dangerously >insane. > > >((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) >William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website >billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com >EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science >Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 16:29:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA07402; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:24:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:24:09 -0700 Message-ID: <010701c03247$8bb47460$3bd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:20:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"3vYRO2.0.Yp1.OEbuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17093 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Um...have you really solved the "lead to gold" transmogrification that alchemists lusted for, for so long? Would one really profit from this method? P.S.-Yes, I'm aware that it's not really transmogrification. -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, October 08, 2000 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! >In reply to Stefan Hartmann's message of Sun, 08 Oct 2000 12:07:13 +0100: > >>He said, >>he also used 0.1 Liter of 30 % concentration H2SO4 accid >>with it to increase the ions in the 1.1 Liter water. >> >>Maybe also the silver plated copper wire electrodes have a catalysator >>effect ? > >H2SO4 + 2Ag -> 2Ag+ + SO4-- + 2 H > >Ag+ + Ag++ + H -> Hy +Ag + Ag+++ (Mills hydrino formation). > >Hy + Ag -> Pd + He4 + 5-6 MeV (energetic alpha particle). > >Each energetic alpha splits thousands of water molecules according to >radiolysis, and also ionises hundreds or even thousands of Ag+ and Ag >generating lots of Ag++. > >What we appear to have here is a lucky combination. >The silver acts both as a Mills catalyst, and as a nuclear fuel, producing >only harmless alpha particles. >To make matters even more interesting, as well as producing copious amounts >of energy, you end up converting silver into palladium (thereby increasing >its value about 100 fold 8-)}}}. (So don't throw away the slops!) > >I would suggest trying the addition of a small amount of a silver salt >(preferably silver sulphate?), to the solution. > >The function of the frequency may be to break up the water "cages" which >tend to surround ions in solution. > >If you can't get this to auto-start, then try holding a smoke detector close >to the cathode. The few gamma generated by the Am241 should be enough to get >it going (provided my speculation is correct). > > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk > >It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do >to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 16:40:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA13953; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:39:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:39:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:39:43 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: fusiongizmo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"6RufV3.0.wP3.3Tbuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17095 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 9 Oct 2000, Colin Cain wrote: > I've always considered you dangerously insane - in a likable sort of way. I > mean after all there is that lex luthor death ray thing. Heh! Fortunately I suffer a total lack of ambition, so posting crack- brained detrius on the web is as far as I've ever got. But note that some group of artists have finally built a "road writer" as a small radio controlled truck with a row of spray-cans. I figure it's only a matter of time before roadside VandeGraaff generators sprout like mushrooms, and police have to battle supervillians with huge tesla coils. But seriously, there has been one instance of a physics crackpot killing somebody. Some guy was sending weird theories to a university physicist, who then insulted him. The crackpot went to the university with a gun. The physics department receptionist refused to let him in, so he shot and killed her. Mr. Cagel's explosions of vengeful rage and religious ranting are preserved in the freenrg-l list archives. If he kills somebody because they insult him or even disagree with him, it would not suprise me at all. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 16:58:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA29711; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:56:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:56:48 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"7200q2.0.wF7.Ajbuv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17096 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Hey, here's the diode o/u guy! Just found in the guestbook... -----Original Message----- From: Charles M. Brown [mailto:chasmbrown489@juno.com] Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 10:15 PM Subject: Entry to Sciclub Guestbook ------------------------------------------------------ May I present an inportant, delicate, and expensive science research project: The hypotheses is that very many very small diodes in uniform alignment parallel release intrinsic heat driven thermal transients of one polarity which are efficiently agregated by being in parallel. I am the inventor granted public domain U.S. patent U.S. 3,890,161, DIODE ARRAY, a nanofabricated chip which absorbs heat directly while producing electrical power. Chips for demonstration purposes not practical use are avalible from University of Virginia Institute of Microelectronics % Dr. Thomas W. Crowe Chips are made in batches so many independent teams should now explore the prospect of energy becoming clean and abundant usng future chips. Charles M. Brown Kilauea, kauai, HI USA - Sunday, October 08, 2000 at 22:14:57 (PDT) ------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 17:28:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA03578; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:27:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:27:33 -0700 Message-ID: <004601c03250$ddf57f40$975cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: References: <010701c03247$8bb47460$3bd666ce@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:27:21 -0400 Organization: Unconventional Conventionalists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"6QkfG.0.lt.r9cuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17097 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Um...have you really solved the "lead to gold" transmogrification that > alchemists lusted for, for so long? Would one really profit from this > method? Have you seen Albert Cau's website at http://www.metallogenesis.com? He claims to have solved the secret of the Philosopher's Stone and that it is a stable superheavy element. -- "[W]hether or not [the Philadelphia Experiment] happened in 1943 is not relevant. It is, for us, like the 'flying saucer' a gedankenexperiment to get us to the next step in post-Einsteinian unified field theory." -Dr. Jack Sarfatti, in http://stardrive.org/Jack/algebra.pdf From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 19:28:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA19941; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:28:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:28:34 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:27:59 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <7kv4usof37vs3vcnqh5eho6qoruu9qngar@4ax.com> References: <010701c03247$8bb47460$3bd666ce@default> In-Reply-To: <010701c03247$8bb47460$3bd666ce@default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA19898 Resent-Message-ID: <"bgsNS.0.Qt4.Ixduv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17098 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Chris O'Barr's message of Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:20:42 -0400: > Um...have you really solved the "lead to gold" transmogrification that >alchemists lusted for, for so long? Would one really profit from this >method? > >P.S.-Yes, I'm aware that it's not really transmogrification. [snip] I don't know, it's just a plausible suggestion. Try it, and see what happens. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 19:37:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA24453; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:37:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:37:11 -0700 Message-ID: <001401c03262$84d66200$8fd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 22:33:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"0WE9L3.0.-z5.N3euv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17099 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I'd be glad to, but I lack lab equipment. I conduct only the crudest experiments under the crudest conditions with the crudest resources. It's quite sad, but at least I'm capable of that sad little bit... -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! >In reply to Chris O'Barr's message of Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:20:42 -0400: > >> Um...have you really solved the "lead to gold" transmogrification that >>alchemists lusted for, for so long? Would one really profit from this >>method? >> >>P.S.-Yes, I'm aware that it's not really transmogrification. >[snip] >I don't know, it's just a plausible suggestion. Try it, and see what >happens. > > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk > >It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do >to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 19:42:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA27160; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:41:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:41:35 -0700 Message-ID: <001b01c03263$22149820$8fd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 22:38:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"KD40u1.0.Ce6.U7euv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17100 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com French bastards...long live the last super power! -----Original Message----- From: Jim Shaffer, Jr. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Monday, October 09, 2000 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! >> Um...have you really solved the "lead to gold" transmogrification that >> alchemists lusted for, for so long? Would one really profit from this >> method? > >Have you seen Albert Cau's website at http://www.metallogenesis.com? He claims >to have solved the secret of the Philosopher's Stone and that it is a stable >superheavy element. > >-- >"[W]hether or not [the Philadelphia Experiment] happened in 1943 is not >relevant. It is, for us, like the 'flying saucer' a gedankenexperiment >to get us to the next step in post-Einsteinian unified field theory." > -Dr. Jack Sarfatti, in http://stardrive.org/Jack/algebra.pdf > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 19:48:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA29945; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:48:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:48:17 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:47:42 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <001b01c03263$22149820$8fd666ce@default> In-Reply-To: <001b01c03263$22149820$8fd666ce@default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA29899 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZtY9Q2.0.kJ7.nDeuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17101 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi, Many people have an old silver teaspoon lying around amongst their cutlery. If so, you could try using it for the experiment. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 20:38:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA12894; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:34:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:34:00 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39E23BD2.2483FAF2@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 16:42:43 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! References: <001b01c03263$22149820$8fd666ce@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cLqrE.0.M93.eueuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17102 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > Hi, > > Many people have an old silver teaspoon lying around amongst their cutlery. > If so, you could try using it for the experiment. > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk What experiment, he leaves no details on how to reproduce it. ;) Does no good otherwise... And if you need silver, just go to a coin store and buy and ounce, very pure too.... <:) Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 20:51:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA19004; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:50:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:50:48 -0700 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 22:50:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup X-Sender: w9sz@bluestem To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! In-Reply-To: <39E23BD2.2483FAF2@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"KPqQd.0.re4.N8fuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17103 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 9 Oct 2000, Daniel wrote: > Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Many people have an old silver teaspoon lying around amongst their cutlery. > > If so, you could try using it for the experiment. > > > > Regards, > > > > Robin van Spaandonk > > What experiment, he leaves no details on how to reproduce it. ;) > > Does no good otherwise... > > And if you need silver, just go to a coin store and buy and ounce, very > pure too.... <:) > > Daniel Joyce > Anyone who does black-and-white darkroom work has a readily-available source of silver that can be used for electroplating. Black-and-white fixing solution (sodium thiosulfate is the active ingredient) becomes laden with silver after quite a few sheets of paper or rolls of film have been processed in it. I have silver-plated copper just by dipping it in the solution. Electroplating can be used to put a thicker layer of silver on. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 21:10:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA25360; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 21:10:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 21:10:25 -0700 Message-ID: <39E24309.96FDEA26@prairienet.org> Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 23:13:29 +0100 From: Zack Widup X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Pretty good fake ! References: <00a801c03174$57a56b80$4700fed4@adolf.schneider> <39E257A1.9F0D7126@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_hLxK2.0.3C6.mQfuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17104 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Look again now, > what the author writes now... > > http://buerger.metropolis.de/drax22/ > Heehee! I love it! Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 09:48:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA00522; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:47:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:47:42 -0700 From: "Kevin Weaver" To: Subject: RE: [FG]: fusiongizmo Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:45:59 -0500 Message-ID: <000401c032d9$9135fb60$0200a8c0@home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"1EBwu.0.V7.iWquv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17105 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >I figure it's only a matter of > time before roadside VandeGraaff generators sprout like mushrooms, and > police have to battle supervillians with huge tesla coils. My thought is that if you could convert an insulated milk tanker into a capacitor and the charge it by installing copper brushes in the wheel wells to pick up a little charge you might be able to even run the truck itself and have a zapper ta boot....mwahaha From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 10:47:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA25141; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:46:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:46:59 -0700 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:46:51 -0400 Message-Id: <200010101746.NAA20457@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! Resent-Message-ID: <"i0PjW3.0.h86.HOruv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17106 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Zack writes: > >Anyone who does black-and-white darkroom work has a readily-available >source of silver that can be used for electroplating. > >Black-and-white fixing solution (sodium thiosulfate is the active >ingredient) becomes laden with silver after quite a few sheets of paper or >rolls of film have been processed in it. I have silver-plated copper just >by dipping it in the solution. Electroplating can be used to put a >thicker layer of silver on. > >Zack I worked for a couple of different photolabs in the 70's, and I remember when they used to just dump all their used chemistry down the drain. Some governmental regulation was put into place that stopped that practice, and there was the usual howl in the management office at the one place that I was working when the actual legislation was passed. They refused to do anything about it, and got large daily fines for a while until someone finally introduced them to the idea of "silver recovery". They bought a machine, and were carting about 100lbs of the stuff to the assayer every couple of days. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 14:05:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA29460; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:04:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:04:45 -0700 Message-ID: <20001010210401.24287.qmail@web4406.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:04:01 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Re: [FG]: fusiongizmo/exiled folks To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"Gbcuy1.0.2C7.gHuuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17107 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- Chris O'Barr wrote: > A few french fries short of a happy meal... > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Beaty > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Date: Monday, October 09, 2000 3:25 PM > Subject: Re: [FG]: fusiongizmo > > > >On Sun, 8 Oct 2000, Alik S wrote: > > > >> > >> http://www.sngtech.com/contents.html > > > >This is C. Cagel's website. He is one of the very > few people who has been > >thrown off of FREENRG-L. Also, of the huge number > of "crackpots" that > >I've ever met on internet, he's the only one who I > consider dangerously > >insane. I was wondering if that could be made public, how many folks have been thrown off the list for ranting and raving. Although that is not the function of the list, I always found those discourses most amusing. Sort of like reading a verbal boxing match. The last time that appears to have happened since I was on the list was the rantings of Bruce Perreault vs Jerry Decker, both of whom seem to have paid their last adieus. Jerry seems to get irritated easily, as he once kicked a freind of mine off his list for posting something I forwarded to him with the suggestion he forward it to Keelynet. Jerry warned him not to post it,but he did anyways. Jerry told me I reminded him of the others who he had booted, such as Bruce P, H Lafonte, and a host of others. Were Bruce and Jerry removed from freeng?, I can see why when those things happen, they have to be removed, but nevertheless I found it amusing. Sort of like shock journalism I guess. HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 18:13:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA21584; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:08:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:08:54 -0700 Message-ID: <39E3CA2D.539407F6@harti.com> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 03:02:21 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , daveem Dave M , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , Free Energy , "ou-builders@egroups.com" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <15772-39E33AC4-627@storefull-284.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5wign2.0.nG5.bsxuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17108 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: water electrolysis heat cell Dave, what salt did you use ? Normal table salt ? How much in what quantity of water ? Please can you try again and measure the water temperature before and after the experiment ? And also note, how much water you used and how much Watts-seconds energy you put in (Amps x Volts x time.) Thanks ! Regards, Stefan. daveem Dave M schrieb: > > I remember an experiment I did along this > line that makes me think this guy may be on to something. > A while back I wanted to see if I could produce a magnetic field by > passing a current through water, so I took a foot long plastic tube, > filled it with salt water to increase the conductivity. > I then placed my compass next to the tube thinking the needle would > move, but there was so little conduction in the salt water, that I was > not able to get a reading, but one thing I noticed was that the salt > water in my tube seemed excessively hot considering the small current I > had passed through it. It would have been interesting to do a BTU test. > Dave > > Mail message > Help > Sender: ralph.hartwell@worldnet.att.net From: harti@harti.com > (Stefan Hartmann) Date: Mon, Oct 9, 2000, 10:42pm (PDT+8) To: > newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-L Mailing List) Cc: minema@gmx.de > (Ph.Mikas), cyberbase@freesurf.ch (Walter Zweifel), > erwin.schneeberger@aon.at (Erwin Schneeberger), rueckamp@muenster.de > (Werner Rückkamp), teamwww@benzinsparen.de (R.Gottschalg), > florianniederhauser@freesurf.ch (Florian Niederhauser), > Manthey@ztg.TU-Berlin.DE (Andreas Manthey), igor.kulikov@chello.at > (Dr.Igor Kulikov), ve24l@yahoo.com (Claudia Höreth), > hans.holzherr@bluewin.ch (Hans Holzherr), wolf63aut@netscape.net > (Wolfgang Heger), ahecht@sigma.sax.de (Andreas Hecht), > FHowar@t-online.de (fhowar), farwics@uni-muenster.de (Stefan Farwick), > free.energy@gmx.de (Wofgang Czapp) Subject: water electrolysis heat cell > Reply to: newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-L Mailing List) > Hi, > here is an interesting new heat cell ! > Does this also work via cold fusion ? > The Dave Hinkson Heat Cell > (A Method of Producing Heat With Greater Than 100% Efficiency) Copyright > (C) 1999 by Robert Preston Sandberg & David R. Hinkson > Sometime during 1991, an experimenter by the name of Dave Hinkson > was manufacturing colloidal silver using an electrolytic method. In > order to increase production he built a large electrolytic cell and > connected it to a large tank of water through a pump. The pump > circulated water from the tank (a 1200 gallon tank) through the > electrolytic cell and back to the tank. > The process was begun by running tap water through a two stage > reverse osmosis filtration system. This produced very pure water which > was used to fill the tank and electrolytic cell. Next the pump was > turned on to circulate the water through the entire system. Next the > power was applied to the cell. The next step was to add a little salt to > the water while monitoring the current flow through the electrolytic > cell. The idea was to add just enough salt to allow a little current to > flow through the cell. The salt was necessary because the water was so > pure that almost no current would flow unless a little salt was added. > The electrolytic cell was built of clear plastic. The exact > dimensions are not critical. However, for the sake of preserving the > historical record I will give them here. The cell was about 29 inches > long, 13 inches wide and 15 inches high. There was an electrode of 999 > fine silver plate 9 inches wide and 27 inches long mounted about 4.5 > inches from the bottom of the cell. There was a platinum plated niobium > metal screen about 8 inches wide and 24 inches long mounted parallel to > and about 8.25 inches above the silver plate. The silver electrode was > connected to the positive side of the power supply and the platinum > plated electrode was connected to the negative side. > The water entered the cell below the silver plate. It then passed > through 14 little plastic tubes arranged with one row of seven tubes on > each side of the silver plate. The tubes discharged the water into the > space between the two electrodes at a distance about 4 inches above the > silver plate. There the water was exposed to the electrolytic process > and passed through the metal screen of the top electrode, exited the > cell at the top and flowed back to the tank. > Power for the electrolytic cell was provided by a very simple > power supply. A 220 volt line ran into a general purpose transformer. > This transformer, rated at 10 KVA, was, as you will see later, vastly > over rated for the application. It was manufactured by Acme Transformer > Company. The transformer, catalogue number T-2-53516-3S/style SR, was > designed to function as a step down transformer to drop voltages from > the 240 volt or 480 volt range down to the 120 volt or 240 volt range. > To accomplish this it had multiple taps on both primary and secondary > windings. These multiple taps made it possible to obtain many different > voltages on the output side. Dave used this transformer to step up the > output voltage into the 600 volt to 900 volt range. Such high voltages > were necessary because of the purity of the water and the large gap > separating the electrodes. > The output of the transformer was fed into a full wave rectifier. > The output of the rectifier was fed directly into the electrolytic cell > without any electrical filtering. Therefore, the cell was being fed with > pulsing DC at high voltage. > Dave measured the current flow into the electrolytic cell as he > added just enough salt to get current to flow. At the beginning of the > process, the amount of current flowing was almost zero. Dave would then > add just enough salt to raise the current flow into the 0.0001 Amp > range. > The cell produced colloidal silver as expected. However, it also > produced an enormous and entirely unexpected amount of heat. The amount > of heat was so great that after 6 hours of operation, the entire 1200 > gallons of water was boiling! This heat caused the electrolytic cell to > leak water and Dave would have to shut the process down at that point. > Any electrician or high school science student could tell you that > Volts multiplied times Amperes equals Watts, which is a standard > measurement of electrical power. In this device, there was a total power > consumption of 0.0001 Ampere X 900 Volts = 0.9 Watts or 0.9 > Joules/second. Over the six hour period of operation the cell only > consumed 0.9 Watts X 6 hours = 5.4 Watt hours or 0.0054 kilowatt hours. > A rough calculation of the energy needed to raise 1200 gallons of > water from a temperature of 68 degrees Fahrenheit to 212 degrees > Fahrenheit results in a figure of about 1.522 billion Joules. That > converts to about 70.49 kilowatt hours. By simple calculations 100 x > (70.49 kWh - 0.0054 kWh)/0.0054 kWh = 1,305,266 % efficiency. In other > words, this cell is producing heat at over 13,000 times unity! > Some general comments are in order. First, the electrode materials > are not critical. This works if stainless steel is used to replace the > platinum plated niobium screen. The platinum was used because stainless > steel corrodes over time and platinum does not corrode. Second, the > greater the gap between electrodes, the greater the heat production. > Third, within reason, the more salt added, the greater the heat output. > A greater gap requires more voltage to drive the cell. A greater > gap may also require more salt in the water. At this stage we do not > know which variables are the critical ones. Is the higher voltage > responsible for the heat production, or is it the salt, or is it the gap > itself? It is also unknown if the heat would be produced with filtered > DC or if the pulsing DC is required to produce the heat. These are > important questions that need to be answered. > Fortunately, this is an easy device to work with. The dimensions > are not critical, the materials are not critical, the voltages are not > critical. The heat is easy to produce. It is our hope that many people > will successfully duplicate this heat cell and spread the good news far > and wide. > Good luck! > -- > Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: > +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: > www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: > http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 > http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne > http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch > lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! > -- > Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! > http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity > > > > Mail message -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 18:30:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA32299; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:29:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:29:29 -0700 From: stevend@entrenet.com Message-ID: <20001011013341.27297.qmail@entrenet.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:33:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"opgN.0.Wu7.u9yuv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17109 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Ice Capacitor question James, I'm trying to duplicate your Ice Capacitor experiment. So far I have the bottom filled with ice and one aluminum foil circle with attached wire. I was about to add the second layer when I realized I didn't know how thick to make it. My power supply ranges about the same as yours. How thick were the layers of ice between each layer? Thanks, Steve PS. I have 19 layers so far on the electric rocket/gravity capacitor - little by little it rises. ------------------------------------------------------------- Steven Dufresne stevend@entrenet.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 23:49:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA00833; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 23:48:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 23:48:29 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <85.14ff705.27156714@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 02:47:48 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, tlamb3@mindspring.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: Lafonte11648@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"4DW421.0.kC.xq0vv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17110 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: LaFonte Group site rebuilt with video, tests going great! The project is going greater than I could have ever dreamed. The tests are going just as the theory predicts. Jon did a great job rebuilding the site and adding a video of the basic "Magnetic Equilibrium" principle. Site is simple and easy to follow now. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 23:53:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA03614; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 23:53:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 23:53:37 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <6.c8a805f.27156848@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 02:52:56 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, tlamb3@mindspring.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"7yDBd1.0.Du.nv0vv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17111 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Web address LaFonte Research Group Sorry, in my excitement from my tests results I forgot to post the web address. http://members.aol.com/vettenrr/LaFonteResearch.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 23:55:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA05444; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 23:55:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 23:55:21 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.253.8.114] From: "Mehmet Boysal" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: water electrolysis heat cell Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 06:54:47 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Oct 2000 06:54:48.0071 (UTC) FILETIME=[25308170:01C03350] Resent-Message-ID: <"GGptp3.0.yK1.Nx0vv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17112 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com << Hi guys To you who read these "water electrolysis heat cell" ideas. Here is another story: One day I met a retired army officer at electronic store and he told me that they did a lots of electronic experiments while he was in the army. One time he said when they were transmitting ultrasonic waves into the water using transducer at certain frequency water was HOT boiling in the tank. I got so excited asked him but he wouldn't tell me what frequency they used, Hz, kHz, MHz he didn't say either what kind of sound wave was that, sine, square, triangle for some reason he didn't want to say anything further. He acted like if he were to tell me the mumblers this would jeopardized national security or something. Those of you who has a work bench and a multi wave oscillator you may want to play with this idea. Mehmet.>> >Dave, >what salt did you use ? >Normal table salt ? >How much in what quantity of water ? > >Please can you try again and measure the water >temperature before and after the experiment ? > >And also note, how much water you used and how >much Watts-seconds energy you put in (Amps x Volts x time.) > >Thanks ! > >Regards, Stefan. > > >daveem Dave M schrieb: > > > > I remember an experiment I did along this > > line that makes me think this guy may be on to something. > > A while back I wanted to see if I could produce a magnetic field by > > passing a current through water, so I took a foot long plastic tube, > > filled it with salt water to increase the conductivity. > > I then placed my compass next to the tube thinking the needle would > > move, but there was so little conduction in the salt water, that I was > > not able to get a reading, but one thing I noticed was that the salt > > water in my tube seemed excessively hot considering the small current I > > had passed through it. It would have been interesting to do a BTU test. > > Dave > >> > here is an interesting new heat cell ! > > Does this also work via cold fusion ? > > The Dave Hinkson Heat Cell > > (A Method of Producing Heat With Greater Than 100% Efficiency) Copyright > > (C) 1999 by Robert Preston Sandberg & David R. Hinkson > > Sometime during 1991, an experimenter by the name of Dave Hinkson > > was manufacturing colloidal silver using an electrolytic method. In > > order to increase production he built a large electrolytic cell and > > connected it to a large tank of water through a pump. The pump > > circulated water from the tank (a 1200 gallon tank) through the > > electrolytic cell and back to the tank. > > The process was begun by running tap water through a two stage > > reverse osmosis filtration system. This produced very pure water which > > was used to fill the tank and electrolytic cell. Next the pump was > > turned on to circulate the water through the entire system. Next the > > power was applied to the cell. The next step was to add a little salt to > > the water while monitoring the current flow through the electrolytic > > cell. The idea was to add just enough salt to allow a little current to > > flow through the cell. The salt was necessary because the water was so > > pure that almost no current would flow unless a little salt was added. > > The electrolytic cell was built of clear plastic. The exact > > dimensions are not critical. However, for the sake of preserving the > > historical record I will give them here. The cell was about 29 inches > > long, 13 inches wide and 15 inches high. There was an electrode of 999 > > fine silver plate 9 inches wide and 27 inches long mounted about 4.5 > > inches from the bottom of the cell. There was a platinum plated niobium > > metal screen about 8 inches wide and 24 inches long mounted parallel to > > and about 8.25 inches above the silver plate. The silver electrode was > > connected to the positive side of the power supply and the platinum > > plated electrode was connected to the negative side. > > The water entered the cell below the silver plate. It then passed > > through 14 little plastic tubes arranged with one row of seven tubes on > > each side of the silver plate. The tubes discharged the water into the > > space between the two electrodes at a distance about 4 inches above the > > silver plate. There the water was exposed to the electrolytic process > > and passed through the metal screen of the top electrode, exited the > > cell at the top and flowed back to the tank. > > Power for the electrolytic cell was provided by a very simple > > power supply. A 220 volt line ran into a general purpose transformer. > > This transformer, rated at 10 KVA, was, as you will see later, vastly > > over rated for the application. It was manufactured by Acme Transformer > > Company. The transformer, catalogue number T-2-53516-3S/style SR, was > > designed to function as a step down transformer to drop voltages from > > the 240 volt or 480 volt range down to the 120 volt or 240 volt range. > > To accomplish this it had multiple taps on both primary and secondary > > windings. These multiple taps made it possible to obtain many different > > voltages on the output side. Dave used this transformer to step up the > > output voltage into the 600 volt to 900 volt range. Such high voltages > > were necessary because of the purity of the water and the large gap > > separating the electrodes. > > The output of the transformer was fed into a full wave rectifier. > > The output of the rectifier was fed directly into the electrolytic cell > > without any electrical filtering. Therefore, the cell was being fed with > > pulsing DC at high voltage. > > Dave measured the current flow into the electrolytic cell as he > > added just enough salt to get current to flow. At the beginning of the > > process, the amount of current flowing was almost zero. Dave would then > > add just enough salt to raise the current flow into the 0.0001 Amp > > range. > > The cell produced colloidal silver as expected. However, it also > > produced an enormous and entirely unexpected amount of heat. The amount > > of heat was so great that after 6 hours of operation, the entire 1200 > > gallons of water was boiling! This heat caused the electrolytic cell to > > leak water and Dave would have to shut the process down at that point. > > Any electrician or high school science student could tell you that > > Volts multiplied times Amperes equals Watts, which is a standard > > measurement of electrical power. In this device, there was a total power > > consumption of 0.0001 Ampere X 900 Volts = 0.9 Watts or 0.9 > > Joules/second. Over the six hour period of operation the cell only > > consumed 0.9 Watts X 6 hours = 5.4 Watt hours or 0.0054 kilowatt hours. > > A rough calculation of the energy needed to raise 1200 gallons of > > water from a temperature of 68 degrees Fahrenheit to 212 degrees > > Fahrenheit results in a figure of about 1.522 billion Joules. That > > converts to about 70.49 kilowatt hours. By simple calculations 100 x > > (70.49 kWh - 0.0054 kWh)/0.0054 kWh = 1,305,266 % efficiency. In other > > words, this cell is producing heat at over 13,000 times unity! > > Some general comments are in order. First, the electrode materials > > are not critical. This works if stainless steel is used to replace the > > platinum plated niobium screen. The platinum was used because stainless > > steel corrodes over time and platinum does not corrode. Second, the > > greater the gap between electrodes, the greater the heat production. > > Third, within reason, the more salt added, the greater the heat output. > > A greater gap requires more voltage to drive the cell. A greater > > gap may also require more salt in the water. At this stage we do not > > know which variables are the critical ones. Is the higher voltage > > responsible for the heat production, or is it the salt, or is it the gap > > itself? It is also unknown if the heat would be produced with filtered > > DC or if the pulsing DC is required to produce the heat. These are > > important questions that need to be answered. > > Fortunately, this is an easy device to work with. The dimensions > > are not critical, the materials are not critical, the voltages are not > > critical. The heat is easy to produce. It is our hope that many people > > will successfully duplicate this heat cell and spread the good news far > > and wide. > > Good luck! > > -- > > Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 11 05:49:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA21144; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 05:49:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 05:49:19 -0700 From: Charlie Hodgson Reply-To: Charlie_Hodgson@s2systems.com Organization: Society for Real Time To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Another OU electrolysis ! Driving lawn mower ! Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:00:23 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.29] Content-Type: text/plain References: <200010101746.NAA20457@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> In-Reply-To: <200010101746.NAA20457@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00101109060300.07393@cougar> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id FAA21008 Resent-Message-ID: <"TBddy1.0.HA5.E76vv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17113 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Michael T Huffman wrote: > Zack writes: > > > >Anyone who does black-and-white darkroom work has a readily-available > >source of silver that can be used for electroplating. > finally introduced them to the idea of "silver recovery". They > bought a machine, and were carting about 100lbs of the stuff to > the assayer every couple of days. I used to do this when I souped. All you need to do is put fine steel wool in the fixer. The iron replaces the silver in the hypo and the silver percipitates to the bottom. Another way is to grow silver crystals. A small piece of activated carbon will act as a building site for the silver. This takes a long time though. Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 11 06:42:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA09489; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 06:41:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 06:41:43 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:40:46 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [FG]: Ice Capacitor question X-Sender-Ip: 143.210.81.67 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"C4iny2.0.6K2.Nu6vv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17114 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Steve, >I'm trying to duplicate your Ice Capacitor experiment. So far >I have the bottom filled with ice and one aluminum foil circle >with attached wire. I was about to add the second layer when >I realized I didn't know how thick to make it. My power supply >ranges about the same as yours. How thick were the layers of >ice between each layer? I got through quite a few caps with this one. Breakdown voltage of ice is not bad, try about 2mm, as this worked for me alright. It may still puncture though, as there may be slight differences. Anything above 75kV and it gets very energetic indeed. The K of 75 is worth playing with though. My ice-cap experiments were an interesting experience....... > >Thanks, >Steve > >PS. I have 19 layers so far on the electric rocket/gravity >capacitor - little by little it rises. Hope it works for you - it'd thrash the pants off the miserable few grams of thrust normally exhibited by electrogravitic devices (though it's probably not strictly EG) James Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 11 15:52:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA28717; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:51:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:51:05 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39E49C62.A721EE1A@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:59:14 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"w6aIH2.0.S07.OxEvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17115 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Bearden et al latest OU claims http://www.ott.doe.gov/pdfs/MEGpaper.pdf Well, the device is DAMN simple, it has the 'DUH' factor about it. And that's usually a good sign. It makes no appeals to far-out math, or crackpot theories, and it seems to make sense. Basically it's a modified self-oscillating transformer. COP is impressive, the oscilloscope shots show a COP of about 3, and the graphs of other tests show COPS >= 5. I dunno, Bearden et al may have found something. I wish I could see said device firsthand... :/ Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 11 23:36:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA02672; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:31:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:31:20 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <69.b995821.2716b496@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 02:30:46 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 106 Resent-Message-ID: <"WncWq2.0.Of.sgLvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17116 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: The MEG page updated with diagram Dear All, I have just updated my web site with some detailled pictures and diagrams about the Motionless Electromagnetic Generator (MEG) from Tom Bearden. You may see at : http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/meg.htm Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 12 04:24:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA22687; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 04:23:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 04:23:13 -0700 Message-ID: <20001012112242.19523.qmail@web4402.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 04:22:42 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"MCyOX1.0.KY5.XyPvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17117 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Coriolis Force as Nature's Lorentz Force Law I dont exactly understand how JL Naudins dedudes the action of the Coriolis Force at The Vortex Sphere at http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/vtxsph.htm where he writes Now, observe the spiral path of the bubbles around the vortex in the water. Try to reverse the rotation and observe the effect on the cavitation bubbles flow around the vortex in the water...You may notice that the vortex is stronger in one direction (CCW) than the other direction (CW) (the Coriolis effect). Let me refresh my understanding of the Coriolis force to others, and if I am wrong, others can correct. Suppose we are on a large space station being rotated in space as an axial cylinder, to reproduce centrifugal force as the stations gravity. If we have a ladder that goes to the center where these forces are then neutralized by cancellation, as we climb this ladder we are adding to our gravitational potential energy. But as we do this we can see why the centrifugal force may not be the exact analogy to gravity. This is because the faster we climb this ladder, the more of a sideways deflection force we will experience, and this is known as the coriolis force. So I have no idea of why Naudin is citing this force in his example. Perhaps Micheal H can make some comments as to why the cavitation bubbles are present in the vortexian water flow, I know nothing of this. Now the Coriolis force is also directly deduced from the conservation of angular momentum. This is commonly shown by an ice skater that goes into a rapid spin on an axis. When the spin starts the hands are outstretched, thus a portion of the outer mass has a higher angular velocity than the inner portions near the axis of spin. As the hands are brought inwards, the speed of the axial revolutions picks up, because the total amount of angular momentum is conserved. Thus in this action a seemingly sideways deflection force adds it component to increase the angular velocity, but all the while conserving the momentum or the mass times the angular velocity. Now imagine that this gravitational field has been replaced with an electric field. A charged particle can can be made do work against this field, or the field can do work on the charged particle. If we have an electron travelling to a positive central cylinder, the analogy may be backwards because it is loosing its potential energy. But if we now superimpose a magnetic field at right angles to the electric, we find that the resultant of these two fields again causes the same kind of reaction that the coriolis force gives, a sideways deflection at 90 degrees to the force vector made by the electric field. HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 12 06:17:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA22540; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 06:17:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 06:17:12 -0700 Message-ID: <39E5C646.B94CDC38@harti.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:10:14 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bob Squires , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , aljan@telus.net X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <39E30B79.5E8F201A@dialnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fJm5V3.0.uV5.NdRvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17118 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Cure for cancer ! From: Stefan Hartmann Date: Thu Oct 12, 2000 12:57pm Subject: Get a zapper, Re: Looking for a cure Hi Alan, get a electronic zapper from Bob Squires. He is the dad of Dave Squires and he makes them professionally ! Very good ! Kills all bacteria and virusses in your body in 3 x 7 Minutes. Also you can use collidial silver to kill them again. If Jean Louis would disable the email scrambling from egroups I could now easier find his email adress... fucking egroups email scrambling ! Here is it: Bob Squires If egroups is scrambling it (Jean Louis get rid of it !) I write it with a space before and after the @ letter: rjlsq @ dialnet.net You have to delete the spaces to write to him. Well, these are not expensive, but they work great ! Hope this helps in your case ! Regards, Stefan. --- In jlnlabs@egroups.com, aljan @ telus.net wrote: > Hello All, > > My apologies for being off topic with this post, I will keep it short, and I > will reframe from doing it again in the future. > > I recently found out that a friend of the family has cancer of the lymph gland, > I thought I seen a post on this list not to long ago regarding a book that is > called (The cancer cure that worked). If anyone knows of such a book and where > I can get a copy, can you please send me the link as to where I can get this > book. I will pass it on to her in the hope that the information can help her > with a cure. > > Thanks you very much > > Best Regards > > Alan L Francoeur > BC. Canada Bob Squires schrieb: > > -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 12 07:14:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA15627; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 07:13:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 07:13:42 -0700 Message-ID: <20001012141310.9178.qmail@web4402.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 07:13:10 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"GQkfm3.0.0q3.MSSvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17119 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Blinking Neons on Halloween I doubt if anyone in the world but me would have this kind of problem, but with halloween coming up I wanted to mention it to anyone using anykind of unusual neon lighting displays. Halloween is full of orange colors and so last Halloween I thought it would be kind of spooky to show a long 12 inch orange neon simply laying on the ground by the front door, with the ending wire simply touching the soil, and lighting that bulb using the earth as the polar capacity, or one ended electrical path. I can do this with the dual large coil BRS which builds up a 3000 volt unobvious potential between the coil systems dual series resonant 60 hz coils, using only the 120 volt household AC input. If the bulb, or bulbs in series, are simply put between the midpoints of the 180 phased series resonances, they will light but rapidly extinguish themselves because the BRS in acting arcing between these unobvious potentials will always show itself as a self quenching operation. As soon as the unobvious potential enables an arc or connection to be established between them, the voltage that caused that arc automatically resets itself to a minimal value, which extinguishes the plasma discharge. That in itself causes the whole process to repeat itself because the open position of this midpoint acting arcing switch is now in an open position, causing the resonant 3000 volts between the opposite resonances to quickly build up again to cause another discharge in this slower example of how oscillations by these midpoint reaction techniques can be made. The net result of these blinks are about 10 per second. Now it is also possible to connect the bulbs to separated grounds, but a curious thing happens here. The bulbs will still blink, but never both at the same time, and the system will always use one bulb path as the predominant grounding. So this blinking bulb was near the doorstep when a mother with a child in a wheelchair came to get candy on Halloween. After they left her child had an epilectic episode and the ambulance came and took her to the hospital. I shut the device down then because of a dim recollection that stroboscopic effect can have bad effects on epilectics. Now today I have seen the following; http://www.wealth4freedom.com/truth/12/rfmindcontrol.htm (Igor Smirnov's Device) Already in the 30s it was found out that the brain waves synchronize their activity to the pulsed light. If a stroboscope, blinking at the frequency of 10 times per second, is aimed at the human eyes the EEG recordings will show the same prevalent frequency in the brain activity. This is also documented by the recent mass ocurrence of epileptic seizures in Japan to the people watching on TV an animated cartoon where suddenly certain frequency of light signals appeared. In scientific language this kind of stimulation is called photic driving and it is well known that an epileptic seizure can be produced by certain frequency of orange light. So this is a note of caution to anyone playing with blinking neons. HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 12 10:50:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA13682; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:49:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:49:48 -0700 Message-ID: <20001012174916.275.qmail@web4406.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:49:16 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"sADQg3.0.dL3.ycVvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17120 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: The Catastrophic BRS/BRS colloidal silver water. In as Much as since the internet exposure of Aug 98 until now of the Binary Resonant System idea has had no replication of this effect besides my own, I can well say that this state of the art extended into 3 phase seems imminent(todays tests)and I will later post an entry of a rehash of BRS principles made to another list. So I have made another application towards electrolysis with a car alternator, but these tests have not yet taken place. To interest someone to replicate my claims on this process, I will first give a practical reason for using it, thus giving people a good reason to replicate it. It can be used in the production of silver colloidal water. One of the issues concerning this is how much conductivity is established, and how much is a healthy dose. An ordinary system sending silver ions into the water may not stop doing this after a certain concentration is reached. Using the BRS method it is theorized and shown that the amperage consumption of the process reveals the conductivity of the solution. Joe Schmuck likes to say that of course as the solution becomes more conductive by silver ion osmosis or whatever it will consume more amperage. However what seems to perplex most people who dont understand what I am talking about is that the BRS is a backwards electrical system. It is the same thing from the inside out, as the outside in, because it has point symmetry. In this condition of making silver water, as the solution becomes more conductive, instead of the BRS input comsuming more amperage, it will consume less. In fact it seems every reason to believe that as soon as the solution reaches a certain level of conductivity, the power input would become so low as to always make a certain ppm quality, irregardless of the time the water was exposed. These are future issues to explore, but first the replication issue needs to be addressed. To replicate the BRS I will first describe the safe and then the catastrophic version, which may be easier for others to build. The problem with making a BRS is the tremendous cost of the coils and capacitors. Since we are dealing with 60 hz resonance in the US these L and C quantities become fairly huge. The first sensible thing that should be done is to aquire a 4:1 step down transformer so that the input AC voltage will be about 30 volts. Now an example is made for 3 14 gauge 500 ft coils in series, for each side of the circuits series resonance. Each side must then have a minimum of 33 mH for the BRS effect to easily be seen at 60 hz. This example then uses a total of 6 coils, but any other large inductances can be used. Three of the 14 gauge coils in series comes to about 33 mH. The ohmic resistance of these 3 coils in series are about 4 ohms, allowing for 30/4=7.5 Amps at series resonance. This occurs on both sides for a total of 15 amps input. This then is a borderline safe scenario, as we dont want more than 10 amps in those 14 gauge wires. Now let us find the real impedance and capacity to use to resonate each coil system; First the Inductive reactance is found by the equation X(L)=2 (pi)(freq)L=(6.28)(60)(.033)=12.43 ohms Now oftentimes the impedance can be estimated as the inductive reactance if the resistance is small in comparison but here we see that this is not the case here because of the small quantity of inductance we are using in this case example. Here the resistance is one quarter the X(L) quantity, so the true impedance is the square root of both of these quantities squared or Sq. Root{12.4^2+4^2}=Sq rt{153.76+16}~13 ohms This 13 ohms represents the amount of current each coil side will allow from the ohmic estimation made by impedance calculation. Thus the coils themselves will conduct 30/13= 2.3 Amps in a non resonant condition. Now the capacity to resonate must be found, to do this first the capacitive reactance must equal the 12.4 ohm X(L) value. x(C)=1/2(pi)(freq)(C) where C is to be found; 12.4=1/(6.28)(60)C ; 376.8*12.4=1/C C=.000214 F= 214 UF(microfarad) [a fairly large quantity to be used on each side using 33 mH as L] Each coil branch gets this capacity to series resonate, each placed on opposite ends of the parallel connections to the source AC input. This makes each series resonance 180 out of phase, consuming 15 amps in that condition. Now the voltage rise for the system can be found by the Q, the ratio of X(L)/R or 12.4/4=3.1 Thus 3.1*30 volts input is risen within the circuit in both opposite polarities to yeild 2*93= 186 volts unobvious potential beween the midpoints. These midpoints go to the silver pieces. Now if we attach an ampmeter between the silver pieces we should find a maximum of 2.3 amps, this is the maximum current that will be allowed between these opposite branches by parallel resonant current limiting. Connecting the midpoints of the circuit changes the entire circuit into a figure 8 tank circuit with twice the internal resistance. Thus only 1.15 amps will be in the actual tank circuit. And the actual input will be Q or 3 times less than this, or only around .38 Amps. Now if we immerse these electrodes in the distilled water, the 186 some volts should immediately drop to a much lower level, and if we plot this voltage over time we should see a significant drop in voltage and amperage consumption during this time period. I suspect that method should make batches fairly quickly compared to present day methods, but I have barely scraped the obtuse descriptions found on the silver water list. Now to understand in this poor example of what can be a catastrophic binary resonant circuit we can operate the above circuit just fine without stepping the voltage down! Just make sure the switch is closed! Then the consumption will be .38Amps*4=1.53 Amps There will be 4.6 amps in the wire. But if the switch comes open 30 amps will immediately start melting your wire!, a very dangerous circuit! But the 60 amps demanded from the circuit is supposed to throw your circuit breaker anyways. In the adaptation of BRS principles to 3 phase, many things seem possible. It may be possible in autotransformer designs to create a high frequency triple discharge where the primary arc is only needed to start the process, and that gap is gradually opened until it ceases operation, and then all that wasted energy from the primary arc gap expresses itself in the secondary discharge. But in this same analogy it should be seen that if that secondary discharge were to accidentally cease, the overload amperage demand could exist. Inasmuch as Jack Sarfatti and James Corum seem to believe that the Philadelphia Experiment may have been a real thing and that Star Gates may actually exist, I would say that my discrete description of actual components here classifies this conception more of a reality than a believable hypothesis' presented as what if's. These also include the incredible Hutchison effects, forgot to thank the last list poster for that info. Sincerely, HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 12 11:02:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA19267; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:01:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:01:29 -0700 Message-ID: <20001012180058.11686.qmail@web4402.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:00:58 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"zLOMf1.0.si4.vnVvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17121 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Rehashing BRS principles I have posted the essential principles before, this a a rehashing that shows how two things are the same thing schematically. This was formerly posted to another list. I have recently converted an delco remy alternator back into 3 phase AC. Everyone seems to be talking about how an alternator can be used for electrolysis for hydrogen consumption by engine. Most folks at first would wonder why I want to use the AC, since electrolysis uses DC. Also most folks would wonder how the alternator can even begin to supply the large amperages needed for electrolysis. Here is the way I see things. The alternator can also drive a resonant tank circuit, that why I want the AC. However the problems there become the fact that that the circuit can only be designed to be resonant at a certain alternator rpm, since the effectiveness of the tank circuit is frequency dependent. At 3000 engine rpm the frequency of the alternator is quite high. This can be made to power a parallel resonant circuit as an average engine rpm. What seems to be ignored by many is what would occur then in that condition. Using a large coil system, it is easy to procure 30 times the amperage inside the resonant circuit, vs that inputed by a single alternator phase. In using this amperage, then redirected to the load of an electrolysisor by rectification after the fact of resonant rise of amperage within this circuit. So Having said these irrefutable facts, why hasnt it been done before? Here we come to great paradox. What I have just described would be a case of the harnessing of electrical resonance, the name of my message board. There is a catch 22 proposition here that has prevented others from following the possibilities I speak of. To show what this involves I will use a different case scenario. Suppose I want to light a florescent bulb without a transformer, using only source wall voltage which is not high enough to do this. I could make another example of harnessing electrical resonance to do this, but the efficiency is very low in the example I will give. Since we now need a rise of voltage vs the input voltage to power this load, and we are asked to do this without the use of a transformer to effect this voltage rise, that may stump some people. However electrical resonance also contains that possibility in the form of its series circuit. This gives the series resonant rise of voltage, internal to the circuit as as two opposing voltages against each other. Now the rise of these quantities compared to the input is always INTERNAL to the circuit, otherwise that rise could not be compared with the actual input. The amount of that rise is found by obtaining the Q of the coil system, which is the ratio of its impedance,(usually easily found by taking an amperage reading of the coil or capacitor alone, and finding its estimated AC ohmic resistance by ohms law, and using that figure as an estimation of that impedance), then dividing that estimation by the coils resistance to derive an acting Q for the inductor case. This Q no. gives the amount of rise in both the amperage case in parallel resonance, and the voltage case in series resonance. Using a very large induction coil, I can get a Q of 15 by resonating it at 60 hz. This means my meter will read 15 times the source voltage if I connect it from the center of of the resonant LC series circuit to either end of the circuit, across either of these voltage rises. Likewise I can then hook a florescent across one of these voltage rises and it will light. But what happens is that this load has the action of circumventing the resonance, and if the voltage across the bulb is now measured it is found that the internal voltage rise of the resonance which supplies that voltage to the bulb has been reduced to a fraction of what it was. If we now add another bulb in series we find that this resonant supply of voltage will increase its supply voltage to light both. Each time we add a bulb until about 5 bulbs as a limit with this q example the supply voltage will then increase corresponding to what that load demands. So what is going on here? What is going on is that a path of current is being made external to the resonance, which in turn delimits that resonance. The catch 22 is that when we extract power from the resonant circuit, we in turn destroy the resonance. A similar problem exists in the alternator case of attempting to harness the resonant rise of amperage to an electrolysisor. The q factor determines the amount of resonant rise and is based on the ratio of the coils (minimal by design) resistance to the impedance that alternator phasing will experience. Thus by adding the resistance of the electrolysor to the circuit, we have in turn changed the acting Q of that circuit. This doesnt even address the further problem of where in that parallel resonant circuit do you put the electrolysisor! Do you put it on this side or that side, or in the middle or what? All of these problems have been long ago solved by the use of what I call the Binary Resonant Circuit, or System (BRS). It is called Binary for more than one reason. First of all it uses 2 of everything. Secondly it can give a binary choice of resonances as a open close switch, where open gives series resonance, and closed gives parallel, thus it is a hybrid series/ parallel resonant circuit. Thirdly it gives the option of adding a load to the circuit without circumventing the resonant path, as was shown in previous single resonant examples. Fourthly it allows for a higher resonant rise or Q factor than a single phase itself can produce. It can do this by mutual inductance. To make this binary resonant circuit it is merely necessary to use two of everything, and add a twist. A tank circuit or parallel resonance consists of a L quantity on one side, and a C quantity on the other side, each in parallel to the voltage input. In this resonance, the inductive current is in an opposite direction to the capacitive, thus the currents in a parallel resonance are 180 out out phase. It is necessary to retreat to an explanation of unobvious potentials here to explain things. Joseph Newman coined this "unobvious" term to represent the action of two forces against each other, with zero net movement because of cancellation. This term is very analogous to what happens in resonance effects. In series resonance we have two unobvious voltage potentials that are expressed against each other, but they are not in complete cancellation. The net difference between these larger than source voltages at any moment in time; is actually the same as the input voltage. As has been noted this voltage rise can be referenced form the inside of the circuit to the outside to measure this voltage rise from that unobvious potential. If we measure 1700 volts, and then put a wire short circuit across that voltage, the whole amperage consumption of the system will drop instantaneously q times to what it would conduct in a non resonant condition, this is what I mean by a load circumventing the resonance. What is desired is to create a situation where the load does not circumvent the resonance. To do this we have to reference the unobvious potential not to the outside of the circuit, but to another mirror image unobvious potential, keeping the load entirely within the two binary resonant circuits. What this then means is that another series resonance, 180 out of phase with the former as a mirror image must be made, and the load placed between them. When this is done with an electrolysisor, the voltage to that load will always only be the acting thermoneutral voltage needed to affect electroysis, or the most efficient use of the minmum amount of voltage to be used to cause current conduction. As bubbles fill the plates, the internal resistance of the electrolysisor also rises, causing the voltage source to also rise to theoretically more efficiently release these bubbles. If all the cells are changed from a parallel to series configuration, the BRS voltage source will again increase to whatever level to make minimal amperage consumption. Thus the voltages from a BRS are dependent on the resistance of the load. Now what happens is that things can be explained two ways, and those two ways of explaining things show that those two things are in reality the same thing. If we again go back to the tank circuit and make 2 identical L's in series on one side, and two identical C's on the other side in series, that does not change it from satisfying the resonant frequency equation R(f)=1/2(3.14)sq rt{LC} If we now twist that circuit into a figure 8, it will not change the amperage consumption of that tank circuit. But what has occured is that the circuit has become the same circuit described as two 180 series resonances 180 out of phase, connected at their unobvious potentials. This is what makes the BRS a hybrid series/parallel resonant circuit. In the tank circuit analogy we can picture the inductive current path as the left figure S, and the right capacitive current path as a backwards figure S. When we superimpose these current paths to form a figure 8 we find that the current path across the center is shared by both branches, but in opposite directions of travel. Because the currents in a parallel resonance are (almost) 180 out of phase, when they use the same pathway from opposite directions, there is twice the current, than either side alone will show. Since this is the portion of the circuit where the load is to be placed, that is an added bonus. To understand how more amperage can exist in the circuit than is being inputed, it is merely necessary to apply Kirchoff's Nodal current rules. The amperage into a node= equals the amperage out. The instantaneous differences between the (almost) 180 reactive currents at any moment in time then equals the input amperage entering and leaving the top and bottom nodes. There are many more points to be made concerning the BRS, which is continually being exploited for new applications, including that of a 3 phase circuit for automotive application. The space and time applications have not been discussed. But this has become too long a post, so the following should be noted in closing. A Series resonant circuit has its currents IN PHASE with the impressed voltage, because of this it instantaneously produces and moves that coils magnetic field with no time lag between when the voltage is applied, and when the field appears. It then acts as a field with no magnetic inertia, or impedance and inductance effects that produce that characteristic of magnetic inertia. Now the effects of parallel resonance are completely opposite to series resonance, and the magnetic field from that process comes from its inductive current, which is (almost) 180 OUT OF PHASE with its source voltage. What we then have by making an arc gap on the midpoint path is a new method of making high frequency oscillations. Every time that arc gap fires, the entire circuit reverts from a series resonance to a parallel. Because these currents from both processes are 180 out of phase, so are those magnetic fields. Thus everytime an arc occurs that magnetic field will instantaneously reverse polarity. This unusual high freq will also produce entirely different frequencies on different inductors, leading me to also classify these also as Multiple Wave Oscillations, (MWO). Some scope forms of this can be found on my homepage at http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/Homepage.html (Tesla Electric Co) Sincerely Harvey D Norris ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 12 11:25:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA30246; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:24:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:24:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:24:44 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <20001010210401.24287.qmail@web4406.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Uad1_.0.MO7.r7Wvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17122 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: exiled folks On Tue, 10 Oct 2000, harvey norris wrote: > I was wondering if that could be made public, how > many folks have been thrown off the list for ranting > and raving. Although that is not the function of the > list, I always found those discourses most amusing. > Sort of like reading a verbal boxing match. Well, one reason I started these forums was to avoid the constant flamewars which dominate most of the usenet newsgroups and wreck any chance of sane discussion. Be aware that very often all other threads cease here when a flamewar breaks out. I note that if I don't stomp on them, then the whole psychology of this forum will be different, and people will feel free to scream insults at any time. I'd rather live in a place where regular subscribers get disgusted at flamers, and will send private complaints when they misbehave. That way I don't have to constantly act as policeman. The forum self-organizes, and it polices itself. It's like a city neighborhood with crack dealers... if the cops come down hard on them, then the local people help keep them out, but they also start picking up the garbage, and start taking action to make the neighborhood a good safe place for their kids. But if the crack dealers are tolerated, then the locals hide behind locked doors, the sidewalks fill up with garbage, and the whole neighborhood becomes crappy. BTW, anyone who actually enjoys flamewars about unorthodox science can find plenty on usenet: http://www.deja.com/group/alt.sci.physics.new-theories http://www.deja.com/group/sci.skeptic http://www.deja.com/group/sci.physics > The last time that appears to have happened since I was on the list was > the rantings of Bruce Perreault vs Jerry Decker, both of whom seem to > have paid their last adieus. > Were Bruce and Jerry removed from freeng?, I can see why when those > things happen, they have to be removed, but nevertheless I found it > amusing. Sort of like shock journalism I guess. HDN Nope, Jerry was pissed that I wouldn't unsubscribe Mr. Perrault from freenrg-L. He kept up the namecalling after several direct warnings and requests to take the fight to vortexB list, so I unsubscribed him to put a halt to it. But that just lasted a few days. As I recall, Mr. Perrault left in a huff when we started discussing a ban on all self-promotion. I vaguely recall some uproar involving Evan Soule long ago, but I don't think I actually unsubscribed him. The only person blocked from subscribing is Charles Cagel. He can't control himself, and his last flamewar here was actually the SECOND one. He did the same thing here a couple of years earlier. He really should start his own forum, like Evan Soule and Bruce Perrault, then he won't have to follow somebody else's rules. >From the message sent to all new subscribers: ******************************************************************** FLAMEWARS Email psychology has an interesting effect: it breeds long outbursts of angry messages between two or more parties. To prevent these "flamewars", I must prohibit all impolite messages. This has some consequences. For example, if someone attacks you or insults you, you must abandon any hope of defending yourself in front of the group. Instead, defend yourself via private messages. Or, if someone blatantly violates the forum rules, you may NOT use the list to publicly embarrass them or attack them for their transgressions. Complain to the violator privately, or contact the moderator instead. "Politeness" and "insult" of course are in the eye of the beholder. I ask that people try not to take insult. But more importantly, I DEMAND that all users try to craft their messages so that the RECIPIENT won't take insult. Any complaints should be totally polite, respectful, emotionless, and non-accusatory, with no 'namecalling' whatsoever. Often this is impossible to do. The solution is very, VERY simple: SEND YOUR MESSAGE DIRECTLY TO YOUR OPPONENT, NOT TO FREENRG-L When a flamewar breaks out, participants usually blame a particular person for causing it, and feel justified in retaliating. However, flamewars are caused by participants, and in order to halt the endless cycle of hostile counterattacks, I must prohibit angry RESPONSES as well as initial insults. If you catch yourself thinking "well, he/she started it, I was just defending myself," since you easily find justification to violate rule #1 of this forum, perhaps you should not be here. Some wisdom regarding flaming... "Few people can be happy unless they hate some other person, nation or creed." - Bertrand Russell "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function." - F. Scott Fitzgerald Being too ready to defend oneself is more dangerous than being too ready to admit a mistake." - Sir Karl Popper "Truth often suffers more by the heat of its defenders than by the arguments of its opponents." - anon "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you. If you really make them think, they'll hate you." - D.R.P. Marquis(1878-1937) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 12 11:46:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA07174; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:45:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:45:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:44:59 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: [FG]: Bearden et al latest OU claims In-Reply-To: <39E49C62.A721EE1A@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"rCYmX3.0.-l1.kQWvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17123 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Daniel wrote: > http://www.ott.doe.gov/pdfs/MEGpaper.pdf > > Well, the device is DAMN simple, it has the 'DUH' factor about it. And > that's usually a good sign. It makes no appeals to far-out math, or > crackpot theories, and it seems to make sense. The o/u community is filled with loud claims of working devices, followed by sudden silence when the apparent success turns out to be a measurement error. The most obvious cure is to distrust difficult measurments, and only claim genuine success when you've connected the input to the output and seen the device keep itself going. If batteries are required, then provide AAA cells, and then run a 100W light bulb for days. Or use supercapacitors instead of batteries. Mr. Bearden really should have held off on his announcement until he had connected the energy flow into a closed loop, creating a stand-alone device. THAT would be convincing, as opposed to meter measurments which are not. What the o/u community REALLY needs is people who, rather than suddenly going silent when they discover their mistake, instead say OOOPS, I WAS WRONG!, and then give the details of their error so others won't keep making the same mistakes. Hiding mistakes to protect our egos will keep anyone else from benefiting from the lessons we've learned. Also, a genuine f/e device, if it doesn't have some sort of governer system, would tend to self-accelerate and go "boom." Perpetual motion is not the goal. We want perpetual acceleration! Like a gasoline engine that doesn't feed the RPMs signal back into the carb intake. Like the Papf electric discharge engine which killed a bystander when the famous physicist Richard Feynman wouldn't give the AC plug back to the inventor, so the control system remained unpowered. Richard Feynman and the Papf device http://www.indian-skeptic.de/html/fey1.htm ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 12 13:40:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA00869; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:38:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20001012203748.23514.qmail@web4405.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:37:48 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"_vv4.0.OD.35Yvv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17124 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Ferromagnetic Vs Resonant Aircore Efficiencies of voltage transformation What I have supplied by the examples in the BRS is the example of a resonant transformer vs that of a ferromagnetic transformer. Now the established ethic there seems to be that after 400 hz or so such ferromagnetic transformers start loosing efficiency, as the ferromagnetic currents heat the metal of the cores. So let us first also realize that this same metal is made in laminated silicone steel layers to reduce those heating eddy currents or what not. Now an alternator does produce AC oscillations on these stator laminations comprising the stator output windings by a motional EMF induced by the rotating pole faces. It is the flux leakage that sweeps by this stationary stator output field component that also uses the ferromagnetism principle to induce that voltage to its load output. To compare what this frequency must be, the pole faces on the modified AC automotive,(not BUS, which has also been done)alternator I have made from an 80's model is 7 per side, producing 7 cycles per rotation of the pole faces contained on the axis of rotation. Given the average RPM of an automotive engine to be 2000, and the diameter of the crankcase pulley to be less than twice that of the alternator, we can quickly ascertain the frequency. According to those simple calculations the diodes are rectifying a signal of 2000*2*7 =28,000 revolutions per minute. Dividing this figure by 60 seconds/minute yeilds 466 hz. Now taking the same 33 mH coil system that yeilds a Q of 3 at 60 hz as shown in the previous post, this will now yeild a Q of 7.77 times the former figure at 466 hz, because that freq. is 7.77 times as high. This yeilds a predicted Q of~ 23. This then means that 23 less times current can be sent into that tank circuit from a single alternator AC phase, then will exist in the tank circuit itself. Additionally in the BRS scheme of things this becomes 46 times more current input across a electrolysisor that can then be made if the electrolysisor approximated the conditions of a dead short, which can never ideally be made. But this shows that possibility of using resonant circuits in automotive alternator applications, that have hitherfore been completely ignored. So now let us speculate that only the field amperage is being trickled in to recharge the battery at 13 volts(that is the job of the voltage regulator to supply that voltage by minmizing the field currents) {Taken in example as output at 2000 engine rpm.} If we take the diodes out of the picture we can estimate that output rms voltage being a 13 volt 466 hz signal. Using a transformer to step this voltage down above the minimal thermoneutral electrolysis voltage of 2 volts/cell we find a ratio of about 7/1 by conventional ferromagnetic method. This means for every amp produced by the alternator at that voltage, 7 amps will be available to power an electrolysisor by ferromagnetic step down methods. However in the argument I have just presented the same amperage input from that alternator harnessing the high frequency through resonant principles might be multiplied not just 7 times, but almost 7 times 7. So that is something to think about: where is the fallacy of my argument? Sincerely Sowing the Seeds of Confusion; Harvich. ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 12 13:54:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA27668; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:48:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:48:35 -0700 Message-ID: <004201c0348d$984d26c0$7b736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:47:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003F_01C03452.EB141B60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"NdChB1.0.9m6.ZEYvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17125 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: ununpentium element? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C03452.EB141B60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i had been reading on the internet about element-115 or ununpentium and = i was curious if this element is for real ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C03452.EB141B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
i had been reading on the internet = about=20 element-115 or ununpentium and i was curious if this element is for=20 real
------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C03452.EB141B60-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 12 14:42:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA13662; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:36:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:36:32 -0700 Message-ID: <20001012213554.2044.qmail@web4405.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:35:54 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"7uxV83.0.DL3.VxYvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17126 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Puharich Sayeth Thus; Following is an entry marked almost a year ago, causing the sender to be exiled from that list. Hey, he was warned not to send it by the owner of that list, but he elected to send it anyways. A lot of rehashing here again, but these are public records. Re: H2O fuel From: Euejin Jeong Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:08:17 Hi All, I thought this e-mail from Harvey Norris may be of interest to a lot of people here. What is better than sharing deep thoughts and insights in the pursuit of the ultimate truth? EJ -----Original Message----- From: Harvey Norris To: ejeong@bga.com Cc: jdecker@keelynet.com Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 4:28 PM Subject: H2O fuel >Hi, Euejin Jeong >cc Jerry Decker >In keelynet archives 9-18 you wrote concerning Moray device > >The most common mistake in the duplication of the >device seems in the misunderstanding of where the load should be located >and what is the key point of it all. > >Tom Bearden's theory is pretty interesting and may be targeting the point >in the right direction but as a physicist I would like to see some more >quantitative analysis of the problem than the hand waving style of his >arguments. > >I wanted to reply then, but now I see a better moment to do so with the >current H2O thread on Keelynet. I was wondering if you could forward >this letter to that group if you deem it of interest. I am kind of working >in the Meyer/Puharich high frequency resonant water shattering hypothesis. > >But first I want to bring your question of where should a load be placed >in coordination with a process of of electrical resonance? Puharich in his >"Method and Apparartus for Splitting Water Molecules" Patent no. >4,394,230 of July 19,1983 states on page 18 "The energy output of >Component I is an alternating current looking into a highly non-linear >load, i.e., the water solution. This alternating current generator >(Component I) is so designed that at a peak load it is in resonance, >and the vector diagrams show that the capacitive reactance, and the >inductive reactance are almost exactly 180 degrees out of phase, so >that the net power output is reactive, and the dissipative power very >small. This design insures minumum power losses across the entire >output system." > >All well and fine, Puharich is stating that he is placing the load in a >parallel resonant or tank circuit where the resonant rise of amperage >dictates that more amperage will exist inside the circuit than is being >inputed. This ratio is determined by the Q of the circuit, or the ratio >of the inductive reactance divided by the resistance.But a conceptual >problem exists because or similar to what you described, where do you >insert a load in a resonant process. I beleive I have discovered a special >tank circuit where this can be done, simply because no one has refuted >this claim after a year of internet exposure. > >To digress here for a moment let me describe in further detail my >experiments years ago where I used a flourescent bulb inserted >into a resonant circuit as the load. I used a 56 Henry coil placed >into series resonance at 60 hz. which enabled a 15 fold increase >in voltage inside the circuit. The logical assumption was to place the bulb >either in parallel to the inductor, or the capacitor. This showed the >paradox involved with trying to harness electrical resonance. As >soon as the bulb was attached to the circuit the resonant rise of voltage >disappeared and was reduced down to that needed to make conduction >through the bulb. Now if I added two bulbs in series that voltage to >enable conduction would increase, and 3 it would increase further. >Thus to harness electrical resonance the loads that seemed to be of a higher >resistance seemed to work better.The problem is described from >my messageboard; >The conventional idea of extraction of energy present in resonance is to >place a load parallel to to the resonant rise of voltage on either the >inductive or capacitive elements. In each case a new pathway of amperage >conduction then exists which diverts available amperage from the resonant >circuit,which in turn reduces the amount of resonant rise of voltage.In the >process of extraction of energy from resonance this in turn shuts down its >high potential source which makes for a catch-22 proposition.The spatial >harnessing of resonance involves a different kind of energy extraction >whereby the potential of the electric field is not diminished. > >The comment about spatial harnessing of resonance: >The spatial harnessing of resonance goes beyond a simple schematic that >conveys a two dimensional idea. The idea of tapping energy from resonance >must be accomplished by extracting energy from the potential without >dimnishing the potential. This is not as impossible as it sounds. If an >electric field exists at right angles to a magnetic field a Lorentz force >interaction can take place which will exert a force on a moving charged >particle that is at right angles to both the causitive forces. That movement >does not deplete the potential in the electric field because it moves >parallel to the potential. > >These comments are a little off topic from what I want to convey here >but this is the experimental approach I want to use to create a special >electrolysis in the future. The generators that will give the special 90 >degree phasing are now functional, but I have been sidetracked by >a more conventional approach I wish to describe here. > >Please note that in the bulb experiments, I needed a higher than source >120 voltage to take place for conduction to take place. By adding bulbs >in series the electrical resonance in turn supplied a higher voltage to >enable conduction to take place. Now compare what an electrolysis cell >does acting as a highly non-linear load. At or around 2 volts conduction >takes place. Thus in application of electrolysisor design in order to >maintain this 2 volts the state of the art design published by George >Wiseman dictates using a series cell design placed to the input voltage >so that the no. of cells in series matches that of the input voltage. Thus >60 >cells are needed for operation at 120 volts, so that 2 volts are across each > >cell. In order to limit the amperage through the electrolysizor, that would > >probably act as a dead short on its own, a capacitor is placed in series >with >the electrolysisor. The amount that capacitor can conduct limits the >available >current into the device. What I have done is to add a large induction >system >placed in series resonance to be that limiting factor instead. On either >side >of the electrolysisor these inductors exist to limit the amperage. The >advantage to this is that of regulation, again only the amount of voltage >needed to maintain conduction is drawn from the input. Thus if only 60 >volts are needed for a design of 30 cells, thats what the resonance will >supply. >In fact given the above, this means that a parallel instead of a series >design >becomes practical. The former limitations of having to use large step down >transformers to produce the 2 volts from a 120 volt supply are circumvented >by the fact that the special tank circuit then does this function instead. > >Now to return to this subject, Puharich notes that 4 fundamental harmonics >of high frequency exist to accomplish water shattering of the tetrahedral >water molecule. I was shooting for a frequency of around 32,800 hz, within >3 % of his named 31,840 hz. he specifies in the patent. To explain how this > >was attempted again needs a digression into how high frequency can be >produced. > >In the 56 H coils in series resonance with a .12 uf capacitor at 60 hz >15 times the source voltage occurs in both the coil and the capacitor >but these voltages are in opposite directions to each other. By making >an arc gap parallel to one of these elements in the resonance, the resonant >rise of voltage can be made to create an electrical arc through the air. >Note that this was the same positioning of a bulb, parallel to the voltage >rise, that gave the problem of taking the whole system out of resonance. >And when this arc occurs, it creates a new situation where the circuit >now appears as one of the two elements of the resonance, either entirely >capacitive or inductive, depending which part of the LC quantities the arc >is shunted to. For a breif period of time this arc will allow the coils to >enter >a high frequency, but it represents an oscillation that is quickly damped, >and the time period for this process to repeat itself is considerably long. >It is a very unsatisfactory method of producing a high frequency, and >again it represents the system going in and out of resonance. I began to >wonder if a different method could be made where the arc formation would >schematically convey a possibility that did not take it out of resonance. >Months of pondering paid off with the discovery of a special tank circuit >which I have named a binary resonant circuit. It is formed by using two >identical L and C quantities in series on each side of a tank circuit, and >then the schematic is twisted into a figure 8 so that a new pathway for >for each reactive current then exists. This new pathway is used by each >reactive current, but in opposite directions of travel. Since each reactive > >current already is in opposite directions of travel with respect to each >other in the tank circuit, (this is what causes the resonant rise of >amperage >to begin with, by nodal laws each pathway of amperage in oppositon >then reduces the input amperage below that experienced on each branch); >when they share this new pathway in opposite directions of travel this >represents a double negative producing unity. The negative of a negative >is a positive by mathematical analogy, and in this special tank circuit >this translates as a reality by the observation that twice the resonant rise > >of amperage is shown on this midpoint path than exists on either branch >alone. To try and eliminate any potential confusion that exists about the >differences between series and parallel resonances in their ordinary >configurations I have again included a comment from my messageboard; > >The currents acting through a parallel resonant circuit are 180 degrees out >of phase which means the highest impedance. The current is continually going >in the opposite direction of the impressed voltage, which may cause >consternation of some of us who wonder how can this be? The case of a single >inductor placed to AC is 90 degrees out of phase which means that the >current is only going in the direction of the impressed AC voltage 50% of >the time which results in our observation of the coils own impedance. And >lastly when the voltage is in phase with the current it goes the correct >direction 100% of the time so that the coils impedance disapears and series >resonance takes place. (Also see Figure 8 description on messageboard for >what was just described) > >Now to rephrase your excellent observation, Euejin, the correct placement >of a load in a resonant circuit should occur along this midpoint path of >this binary resonant tank circuit as I have described. If one is attempting > >to use the resonant rise of amperage to begin with, as Puharich attempts >to show in his patent, doesnt it make a lot of sense to use a circuit that >doubles this quantity? > >As if the preceeding discourse should be enough, actually it does not >convey the totality of what I am saying. Sometimes a schematic can be very >misleading in that the same thing can be drawn different ways. If one >places an arc gap along this midpoint path, the high frequency >that can be created is a world of difference from the former method >described. We now have an oscillation that does not go in and out of >resonance, but rather oscillates between series and parallel resonance. >It produces a very clean practically continuous oscillation that is not >significantly damped at high frequency. This is because when this hybrid >tank circuit is given an open connection at midpoint, it becomes something >entirely different,in that case schematically it is two series resonant >circuits >180 degrees out of phase. This is how an arc gap can serve to oscillate >BETWEEN resonances. By using 4 metal bars with the two inner bars >connected to the electrolysisor and two air gaps between the outer bars >connected to the binary resonant system at midpoints, a high frequency >can be conveyed to the electrolysisor without the use of solid state >circuitry >to produce this high frequency. Now the question becomes how is that >frequency tailored to meet our specifications of 32,800 hz. To do this is >to >simply apply the discovery of a quarter wave length oscillator as shown by >Tesla. >Thus by making the wire lengths of the inductor 1.4 miles (perhaps not so >simple) >this should be shown. My first attempt to drive this system at 120 volts, 60 >hz AC did >not produce the needed high frequency probably because the voltage at the >bars >was only around 750 volts whereas around 3000 volts are needed to produce >the >high frequency to jump the arc gaps. This is where the experimental >alternator system that produces 360 >hz will come in handy. Six times the frequency guarantees 6 times the >resonant >rise of voltage when the system is then resonated at that frequency. The Q >of the large amperage BRS is only 3 at 60 hz, but at 360 this becomes 18. >The drawback with the alternator system (diodes have been removed to provide >AC) is that it is a large amperage system that only provides 30 volts >output. A 4/1 step up transformer is then needed to supply 120 volts and at >that frequency the transformers may heat up quickly. Better leave now that >this post got so long. But I should add that this method produces a high >voltage pulse that immediately extiguishes or quenches itself upon >establishment of arc. This automatic quenching is established as a means to >instantaneously apply a high voltage blink to the electrolysisor to >accomplish water shattering. >What I have described here is what was was discovered by connecting two >series resonant circuits of 180 phasing at their midpoints, and I should not >go into the >next idea which is to create two of these binary resonant systems from the >experimental alternator system, where each of those systems are then 90 >degrees out of phase. Then each of those L and C quantities can be >interfaced >SPATIALLY between those phases to deliver a theoretical 40% over unity >predicted by Lorentz force laws. This is what I am trying to convey as the >spatial harnessing of electrical resonance. > >Sincerly, Harvey D Norris, tesla4@excite.com >Binary Resonant System ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 12 15:24:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA32616; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:23:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:23:27 -0700 Message-ID: <20001012222252.9023.qmail@web4401.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:22:52 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"upFIL2.0.Tz7.UdZvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17127 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Wiseman's Capacitive Limiting of Amperage Even if you make a large series cell design to make 2 volts per cell, making 60 cells in series for a rectified 120 volt wall input voltage design, you will still have to add capacitors in series to limit that amperage into the device. Thats what the capacitors in series are there for, to simply limit the amperage into the device according to those capacitors capacitive reactance's ability to allow so much amperage through the valve... If you use inductors to limit the amperage instead, then you have a whole new possibility, that possibililty is called the resonant rise of amperage/ect. HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 12 18:17:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA03662; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:11:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:11:32 -0700 Message-ID: <20001013011057.4894.qmail@web4404.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:10:57 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"tUL6H2.0.xu.45cvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17128 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Phasings and Shared paths. When the Idea of poly/phases came into use, it was found that one of the wires of each phased circuit could be combined as a single return wire. Thus a single transformer secondary encompassed by bifilar windings becomes an example of this, where the center path is shown as a wire used by cancellation of currents, where zero currents exist across that wire by cancellation, unless one side consumes more amperage than the other, in which case the misbalance results as a current on the neutral and a different current loop is made. This center tap secondary transformer example is the INVERSE of the BRS where those center currents are in unison by twisting a parallel resonant schematic to make shared paths in double opposition making unity, not ordinary showing the inverse example of a center tapped secondary where those currents are in opposition for zero current path, by virtue OF SHARED PATHS. This zero current path no longer is zero,if one side consumes more than the other, as the balance of cancellation no longer then exists. Using phasings at 90 degrees the common use return wire then is always allowing a partial reduction to .707 of each current phase. Then 2 Amps can go in from two outside wires, and only 1.4 amp measured on the common return wire. That is again in the condition of balanced loads, and due to a partial cancellation of currents shown by the first example of a center tapped secondary. Using 3 phases at 120 degrees: 3 amps can go in from 3 outside sources, all connected to the same return wire, and if those are all equal impedance loads, now the first cited example of a center tapped secondary again applies, and there is zero return current on that wire because of total phasing cancellation in 3 phase balanced loads. The return wire use becomes the action of one of the other phases. If you take an alternator apart you will then only see three output wires from the stator. This leaves only two ordinary ways to connect them together to 3 loads. Combining the loads to a common ground is WYE, and combining the loads between the sourcings is DELTA, each method giving a different voltage. Going FURTHER into that idea one could arrange 3 DELTA ordered series resonances as a load. The BRS analogy to 3 phase at first glance would be the shorting of these 3 series resonances by a common trisectional short placed across all 3 midpoints. This single test is better than all the theories combined, as now each third of the path may have differing phasing additions, complicating to concieve, and easily answered by a single test. HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 12 20:04:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA12915; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 20:04:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 20:04:17 -0700 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:04:10 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"B5U5T2.0.e93.mkdvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17129 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Frenette questions I'm thinking about building a Frenette friction heater which is supposed to yield 3 X the heat compared to the amount of energy put into it. Anybody have any experience building one and have any advice for me? Thanks, Brian Drake (Bmd2323@aol.com) ****** Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. ****** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 12 21:03:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA03111; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:03:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:03:17 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39E63718.B8DF441F@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:11:36 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Bearden et al latest OU claims References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"v7Yy-.0.Wm.5cevv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17130 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com William Beaty wrote: > > The o/u community is filled with loud claims of working devices, followed > by sudden silence when the apparent success turns out to be a measurement > error. > > The most obvious cure is to distrust difficult measurments, and only claim > genuine success when you've connected the input to the output and seen the > device keep itself going. If batteries are required, then provide AAA > cells, and then run a 100W light bulb for days. Or use supercapacitors > instead of batteries. > Well, yeah, we'll see how it goes when the 'demos' are done... I'm giving the benefit of the doubt... Supposedly the device provides more power the higher the load you put on it, so it doesn't runaway, and melt down, but within the limits of it's ability to provide and support a given load, it provides that energy... I posted it mainly out of intrest. I find it interesting mainly because it's not overly complicated, unlike most O/U designs... Daniel From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 12 21:29:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA12238; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:29:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:29:18 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 00:29:09 -0400 Message-Id: <200010130429.AAA32343@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Coriolis Force as Nature's Lorentz Force Law Resent-Message-ID: <"AZkyt3.0.1_2.T-evv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17131 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >I dont exactly understand how JL Naudins dedudes the >action of the Coriolis Force at The Vortex Sphere at >http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/vtxsph.htm . So I have no idea of why Naudin is citing this >force in his example. Perhaps Micheal H can make some >comments as to why the cavitation bubbles are present >in the vortexian water flow, I know nothing of this. Ahoy There, Thanks for pointing out this excellent demo of a vortex in water! The cavitation bubbles are no surprise. As the paddle in the bottom of the sphere approaches a given speed, which will vary depending on the geometry of the paddle, a very low pressure area is formed in the water in the wake of the paddle. The pressure gets low enough that the water boils at room temperature, and forms a bubble. This is called a cavitation bubble, and the traveling speed of the paddle may only be around 70 mph or even less for the bubble to form. I think that JLN is just using the bubbles as a visual aid to help understand the fluid dynamics of the spiral flow pattern. He does excellent demos. A more interesting thing happens when the bubble gets moved into a higher pressure zone however, that being the bubble collapses with an enormous force which unleashes excess heat. This was discovered by Lord Rayleigh around the turn of the century, when the British Navy developed ships capable of moving a propeller in water at high speeds. The propellers were getting eaten up by the heat of these collapsing cavitation bubbles. When the bubble walls get to within a very small distance from one another, the Casimir Force kicks in, and the final stage of the collapse takes place at quantum speeds, and emits light. This light emission phenomenon is known as Sonoluminescence, and was discovered around 1930. The heat generated at the moment of final collapse is estimated at being 10's of thousands and even millions of degrees at the focal point, depending on whose measurements you want to believe, but it is quite hot. These phenomena are the reasons that we have seen excess heat in devices like my own, the so called Griggs device or Hydrosonic Pump, the Stringham/George device and the Potopov device, although that last one was never proven to be overunity by anyone I know. Professor Oriani has just reported measuring excess heat from simply stirring water in Japan, and is investigating that as we speak. There are hundreds of others at the University PhD level investigating various different methods of creating and collapsing cavitation bubbles, and finding numerous good uses for them. It was razor's edge science 10 years ago, and still is quite interesting, but it is pretty old hat now, really. Nothing as cool as what you have been up to, anyway. ;) Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 12 21:32:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA13926; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:31:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:31:40 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Cure for cancer ! Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 04:32:53 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Message-ID: <39e78da1.513269205@mail.midiowa.net> References: <39E30B79.5E8F201A@dialnet.net> <39E5C646.B94CDC38@harti.com> In-Reply-To: <39E5C646.B94CDC38@harti.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA13894 Resent-Message-ID: <"LtPAC3.0.RP3.i0fvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17132 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:10:14 +0100, Stefan Hartmann wrote: >get a electronic zapper >from Bob Squires. He is the dad of Dave Squires >and he makes them professionally ! > >Very good ! >Kills all bacteria and virusses in your body >in 3 x 7 Minutes. >Also you can use collidial silver to kill >them again. I agree about the Zapper (developed by Dr. Hulda Clark, a biophysicist). However, anyone on this group should be able to make one in about 15 minutes if you have an electronic prototyping board available -- or a good audio function generator. The specs are: square wave pulses with a 50% duty cycle at about 1 kHz. The pulses must be a minimum of 8 volts (10 volts is much better) with a rise time as fast as possible, and the current limited to about 1 mA. (The current limit will tend to round the square wave near the peak of the pulse.) A 555 timer wired as a multivibrator works fine, and needs 3 resistors (1 to limit current) and 1 capacitor to make the circuit. A 12 to 13.8 volt supply is ideal. Does it work?? Absolutely!!! It is the only process that has made a dent in my chronic, disabling sinus condition (I think it's an infection, but don't know for sure). 12+ doctors and all their tests (CAT scans, etc.) and guesses at treatment didn't do the job. My sinus condition is mostly gone now, after having to endure bouts of disabling pain for over 7 years that became almost continuous until finding the Zapper. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 12 22:03:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA26278; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:58:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:58:52 -0700 Message-ID: <03f601c034d0$6658a020$a8f0fea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: References: <39E30B79.5E8F201A@dialnet.net> <39E5C646.B94CDC38@harti.com> <39e78da1.513269205@mail.midiowa.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Cure for cancer ! Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:44:42 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"qBKJb2.0.UQ6.BQfvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17133 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Where or how can it be bought? Anna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean T. Miller" To: Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Cure for cancer ! > On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:10:14 +0100, Stefan Hartmann > wrote: > > >get a electronic zapper > >from Bob Squires. He is the dad of Dave Squires > >and he makes them professionally ! > > > >Very good ! > >Kills all bacteria and virusses in your body > >in 3 x 7 Minutes. > >Also you can use collidial silver to kill > >them again. > > I agree about the Zapper (developed by Dr. Hulda Clark, a > biophysicist). > > However, anyone on this group should be able to make one in about 15 > minutes if you have an electronic prototyping board available -- or a > good audio function generator. > > The specs are: square wave pulses with a 50% duty cycle at about 1 > kHz. The pulses must be a minimum of 8 volts (10 volts is much > better) with a rise time as fast as possible, and the current limited > to about 1 mA. (The current limit will tend to round the square wave > near the peak of the pulse.) > > A 555 timer wired as a multivibrator works fine, and needs 3 resistors > (1 to limit current) and 1 capacitor to make the circuit. A 12 to > 13.8 volt supply is ideal. > > Does it work?? Absolutely!!! > > It is the only process that has made a dent in my chronic, disabling > sinus condition (I think it's an infection, but don't know for sure). > 12+ doctors and all their tests (CAT scans, etc.) and guesses at > treatment didn't do the job. My sinus condition is mostly gone now, > after having to endure bouts of disabling pain for over 7 years that > became almost continuous until finding the Zapper. > > -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 12 22:57:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA11410; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:57:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:57:12 -0700 Message-ID: <019501c034da$040f4b80$5cd4ddd1@x2001> From: "2001" To: Cc: References: <39E30B79.5E8F201A@dialnet.net> <39E5C646.B94CDC38@harti.com> <39e78da1.513269205@mail.midiowa.net> <03f601c034d0$6658a020$a8f0fea9@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Cure for cancer ! Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:54:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"-LysE2.0.7o2.tGgvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17134 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Here are some links for the Zapper and blood electrifier: Sota Instruments' Zapper and blood electrifier http://www.sotainstruments.com/ Don Croft's Zapper http://www.mind.net/aware/parasite.htm If you don't mind spending $200 or so you may want to look into this easy to use blood electrifier http://www.bigskyonline.com/welcome.html Bil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anna M*" To: Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Cure for cancer ! > Where or how can it be bought? > Anna > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dean T. Miller" > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 9:32 PM > Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Cure for cancer ! > > > > On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:10:14 +0100, Stefan Hartmann > > wrote: > > > > >get a electronic zapper > > >from Bob Squires. He is the dad of Dave Squires > > >and he makes them professionally ! > > > > > >Very good ! > > >Kills all bacteria and virusses in your body > > >in 3 x 7 Minutes. > > >Also you can use collidial silver to kill > > >them again. > > > > I agree about the Zapper (developed by Dr. Hulda Clark, a > > biophysicist). > > > > However, anyone on this group should be able to make one in about 15 > > minutes if you have an electronic prototyping board available -- or a > > good audio function generator. > > > > The specs are: square wave pulses with a 50% duty cycle at about 1 > > kHz. The pulses must be a minimum of 8 volts (10 volts is much > > better) with a rise time as fast as possible, and the current limited > > to about 1 mA. (The current limit will tend to round the square wave > > near the peak of the pulse.) > > > > A 555 timer wired as a multivibrator works fine, and needs 3 resistors > > (1 to limit current) and 1 capacitor to make the circuit. A 12 to > > 13.8 volt supply is ideal. > > > > Does it work?? Absolutely!!! > > > > It is the only process that has made a dent in my chronic, disabling > > sinus condition (I think it's an infection, but don't know for sure). > > 12+ doctors and all their tests (CAT scans, etc.) and guesses at > > treatment didn't do the job. My sinus condition is mostly gone now, > > after having to endure bouts of disabling pain for over 7 years that > > became almost continuous until finding the Zapper. > > > > -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 00:17:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA30280; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 00:12:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 00:12:37 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.253.16.74] From: "Mehmet Boysal" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Cure for cancer ! (Buy or Build your own) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 07:12:04 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Oct 2000 07:12:05.0161 (UTC) FILETIME=[E42B6190:01C034E4] Resent-Message-ID: <"OH8Qt2.0.1P7.aNhvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17135 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com << Hi All I think we are getting out off subject here, but let us respect those that might be suffereing! Ancient Proverb Says: He who falls into the ocean, will grab the serpent to save himself. I never used such a device, but God forbit if I ever get sick I will build the zaper and hold the elctrodes. You may want save the page that show how to do it yourself, under $10 Here how to do it yourself: http://www.hollynearby.com/zapper.html At this link they sell the gizmo: http://www.ess-in.com/index.htm So easy to do it yourself, make sure you follow the safety instructions. Good fortune Anna. Mehmet.>> >Where or how can it be bought? >Anna > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dean T. Miller" >To: >Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 9:32 PM >Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Cure for cancer ! > > > > On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:10:14 +0100, Stefan Hartmann > > wrote: > > > > >get a electronic zapper > > >from Bob Squires. He is the dad of Dave Squires > > >and he makes them professionally ! > > > > > >Very good ! > > >Kills all bacteria and virusses in your body > > >in 3 x 7 Minutes. > > >Also you can use collidial silver to kill > > >them again. > > > > I agree about the Zapper (developed by Dr. Hulda Clark, a > > biophysicist). > > > > However, anyone on this group should be able to make one in about 15 > > minutes if you have an electronic prototyping board available -- or a > > good audio function generator. > > > > The specs are: square wave pulses with a 50% duty cycle at about 1 > > kHz. The pulses must be a minimum of 8 volts (10 volts is much > > better) with a rise time as fast as possible, and the current limited > > to about 1 mA. (The current limit will tend to round the square wave > > near the peak of the pulse.) > > > > A 555 timer wired as a multivibrator works fine, and needs 3 resistors > > (1 to limit current) and 1 capacitor to make the circuit. A 12 to > > 13.8 volt supply is ideal. > > > > Does it work?? Absolutely!!! > > > > It is the only process that has made a dent in my chronic, disabling > > sinus condition (I think it's an infection, but don't know for sure). > > 12+ doctors and all their tests (CAT scans, etc.) and guesses at > > treatment didn't do the job. My sinus condition is mostly gone now, > > after having to endure bouts of disabling pain for over 7 years that > > became almost continuous until finding the Zapper. > > > > -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 00:25:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA00386; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 00:22:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 00:22:30 -0700 Message-ID: <045c01c034e4$71e38d60$a8f0fea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Cure for cancer ! (Buy or Build your own) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 00:08:49 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"ljCYM.0.w5.rWhvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17136 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thank you, but this is not for me but for a very good friend of mine only recently diagnosed with cancer. I will forward the links to her. Thanks again, Anna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehmet Boysal" To: Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 12:12 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Cure for cancer ! (Buy or Build your own) > << Hi All > I think we are getting out off subject here, but let us respect those that > might be suffereing! > > Ancient Proverb Says: He who falls into the ocean, will grab the serpent to > save himself. > > I never used such a device, but God forbit if I ever get sick I will build > the zaper and hold the elctrodes. > > You may want save the page that show how to do it yourself, under $10 > > Here how to do it yourself: http://www.hollynearby.com/zapper.html > > At this link they sell the gizmo: http://www.ess-in.com/index.htm > > So easy to do it yourself, make sure you follow the safety instructions. > > Good fortune Anna. > Mehmet.>> > > > > >Where or how can it be bought? > >Anna > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Dean T. Miller" > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 9:32 PM > >Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Cure for cancer ! > > > > > > > On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:10:14 +0100, Stefan Hartmann > > > wrote: > > > > > > >get a electronic zapper > > > >from Bob Squires. He is the dad of Dave Squires > > > >and he makes them professionally ! > > > > > > > >Very good ! > > > >Kills all bacteria and virusses in your body > > > >in 3 x 7 Minutes. > > > >Also you can use collidial silver to kill > > > >them again. > > > > > > I agree about the Zapper (developed by Dr. Hulda Clark, a > > > biophysicist). > > > > > > However, anyone on this group should be able to make one in about 15 > > > minutes if you have an electronic prototyping board available -- or a > > > good audio function generator. > > > > > > The specs are: square wave pulses with a 50% duty cycle at about 1 > > > kHz. The pulses must be a minimum of 8 volts (10 volts is much > > > better) with a rise time as fast as possible, and the current limited > > > to about 1 mA. (The current limit will tend to round the square wave > > > near the peak of the pulse.) > > > > > > A 555 timer wired as a multivibrator works fine, and needs 3 resistors > > > (1 to limit current) and 1 capacitor to make the circuit. A 12 to > > > 13.8 volt supply is ideal. > > > > > > Does it work?? Absolutely!!! > > > > > > It is the only process that has made a dent in my chronic, disabling > > > sinus condition (I think it's an infection, but don't know for sure). > > > 12+ doctors and all their tests (CAT scans, etc.) and guesses at > > > treatment didn't do the job. My sinus condition is mostly gone now, > > > after having to endure bouts of disabling pain for over 7 years that > > > became almost continuous until finding the Zapper. > > > > > > -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 05:23:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA20729; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 05:21:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 05:21:01 -0700 Message-ID: <39E6FE17.A4AF4C4F@icx.net> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 08:20:39 -0400 From: Stephen Brummitt Organization: D E V X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Coriolis Force as Nature's Lorentz Force Law References: <200010130429.AAA32343@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DCf-y2.0.o35.julvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17137 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello Michael, In the set-up that I saw in the video you mentioned, I had to seriously question, if the circumstances were actually present there, for the formation of cavitation bubbles. I am more inclined to think, that the small bubbles there were just being 'stirred-up' from the turbulence; and, are the result of air, which was just pulled down through the center of the vortex, and just swirled around in the current. The shape of that magnet, at that speed (while inducing some degree of turbulence), the flow still appears to be too laminar, for the pressure drop needed to induce cavitation. I would be very interested to see if those bubbles still form, if the globe was completely filled with water. Then there is no air available to 'stirr-up'. If they do still form, then I am completely wrong about this. Stephen Brummitt ________________________________________________________________ Michael T Huffman wrote: > > >I dont exactly understand how JL Naudins dedudes the > >action of the Coriolis Force at The Vortex Sphere at > >http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/vtxsph.htm > > . So I have no idea of why Naudin is citing this > >force in his example. Perhaps Micheal H can make some > >comments as to why the cavitation bubbles are present > >in the vortexian water flow, I know nothing of this. > > Ahoy There, > > Thanks for pointing out this excellent demo of a vortex in water! The > cavitation bubbles are no surprise. As the paddle in the bottom of the > sphere approaches a given speed, which will vary depending on the geometry > of the paddle, a very low pressure area is formed in the water in the wake > of the paddle. The pressure gets low enough that the water boils at room > temperature, and forms a bubble. This is called a cavitation bubble, and > the traveling speed of the paddle may only be around 70 mph or even less for > the bubble to form. > > I think that JLN is just using the bubbles as a visual aid to help > understand the fluid dynamics of the spiral flow pattern. He does excellent > demos. A more interesting thing happens when the bubble gets moved into a > higher pressure zone however, that being the bubble collapses with an > enormous force which unleashes excess heat. This was discovered by Lord > Rayleigh around the turn of the century, when the British Navy developed > ships capable of moving a propeller in water at high speeds. The propellers > were getting eaten up by the heat of these collapsing cavitation bubbles. > When the bubble walls get to within a very small distance from one another, > the Casimir Force kicks in, and the final stage of the collapse takes place > at quantum speeds, and emits light. This light emission phenomenon is known > as Sonoluminescence, and was discovered around 1930. The heat generated at > the moment of final collapse is estimated at being 10's of thousands and > even millions of degrees at the focal point, depending on whose measurements > you want to believe, but it is quite hot. > > These phenomena are the reasons that we have seen excess heat in devices > like my own, the so called Griggs device or Hydrosonic Pump, the > Stringham/George device and the Potopov device, although that last one was > never proven to be overunity by anyone I know. Professor Oriani has just > reported measuring excess heat from simply stirring water in Japan, and is > investigating that as we speak. There are hundreds of others at the > University PhD level investigating various different methods of creating and > collapsing cavitation bubbles, and finding numerous good uses for them. > > It was razor's edge science 10 years ago, and still is quite interesting, > but it is pretty old hat now, really. Nothing as cool as what you have been > up to, anyway. ;) > > Knuke > > Michael T. Huffman > Huffman Technology Company > 1121 Dustin Drive > The Villages, Florida 32159 > (352)259-1276 > knuke@LCIA.COM > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 06:27:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA11462; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 06:26:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 06:26:38 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001013081844.0094ee40@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 08:26:34 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Cure for cancer ! (Buy or Build your own) In-Reply-To: <045c01c034e4$71e38d60$a8f0fea9@oemcomputer> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"a-Mzv3.0.to2.Dsmvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17138 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi... The skeptic in me says "Placebo" but who knows??? It is simple enough and it can't hurt you. I wouldn't stop other treatments over this. Oncologist are getting real good these days. At 12:08 AM 10/13/00 -0700, you wrote: >Thank you, but this is not for me but for a very good friend of mine only ><> > > Here how to do it yourself: http://www.hollynearby.com/zapper.html > > > > At this link they sell the gizmo: http://www.ess-in.com/index.htm > > > > So easy to do it yourself, make sure you follow the safety instructions. ><> _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 08:15:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA19651; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 08:08:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 08:08:38 -0700 From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:10:14 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Cure for cancer ! Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Message-ID: <39E6FBA6.22237.4319847@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <019501c034da$040f4b80$5cd4ddd1@x2001> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id IAA19614 Resent-Message-ID: <"wsoAu1.0.yo4.rLovv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17139 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From another list : Subject: (fwd) Re: NATURAL ANTI cancer Remedies ! Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 16:10:15 -0300 This seems to be very promising information. To all Oncologists: The Hollings Cancer instititute at the University of South Carolina is doing a double blind study on a large group of 500 cervical cancer patients that has everyone excited. They are excited because their past nine years of study have shown that a natural product called ellagic acid is causing G-arrest within 48 hours (inhibiting and stopping mitosis-cancer cell division), and apoptosis (normal cell death) within 72 hours, for breast, pancreas, esophageal, skin, colon and prostate cancer cells. Clinical tests also show that ellagic acid prevents the destruction of the p53 gene by cancer cells. Additional studies suggest that one of the mechanisms by which ellagic acid inhibits mutagenesis and carcinogenesis is by forming adducts with DNA, thus masking binding sites to be occupied by the mutagen or carcinogen. Ellagic acid can be found in different foods, but the clinic has identified the red raspberry as having the highest content of the acid. Moreover, the doctors at Holling's have created a patent pending process of extracting potent levels of the acid from the seeds of the raspberrys that are getting dramatic results. Other USA sources substantiate the Hollings Cancer Institute include: Department of Surgical Oncology, College of Medicine, University of Illinois at Chicago, Illinois; Division of Environmental Health Sciences, The Ohio State University School of Public Health, Colombus, Ohio; Departmant of Medicine, Lakeside Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Northwestern University School of Medicine, Stanford, CA; Department of Preventative Medicine, Ohio State University, Colombus, Ohio. Here is a description of the study which came from a website of the Washington Raspberry Commission. You can see the Hollings research articles there. http://www.red-raspberry.com/ (under reconstruction to handle heavy volume of hits) Here are some notes from the site. Reprinted by permission from WRC "The proposed study, under the direction of Daniel Nixon, M.D., President of the American Health Foundation and Drs. Dave Gangemi and Blair Holliday of the Hollings Cancer Center/Medical University of South Carolina, will evaluate women with atypical squamous cells of undetermined significance (ASCUS) in which there is neither treatment nor clinical evaluation available. ASCUS represents as much as 10% of all Papanicolaou smears in the US and represents approximately 5 million females. In this population, these women who are infected with human papillomaviruses (HPV) types 16 and/or 18 are at the greatest risk of developing cervical cancer at some stage in their lives. In addition, women who are diagnosed with the immature metaplastic form of ASCUS usually have lesions which are higher in the endocervical canal, are more metabolically active, have flatter surface areas, and are more likely to invade the underlying connective tissue as well as the endocervical glandular epithelium. This population represents approximately one million women in the United States alone. The condition is very pronounced in countries outside the United States. In India this is one of the two major cancers affecting women." Research sources: Cancer Lett 1999 Mar 1 1;136(2):215-21 Expression and its posssible role in G1 arrest and apoptosisi in ellagic acid treated cancer cells. Narayanan BA, Geoffroy O, Wilmington MC, Re GG, Nixon DWCANCER P Prevention program, Hollings Cancer Center, Medical University of South Carolina, Charleston 29425, USA. "Ellagic acid is a phenolic compound present in fruits and nuts including raspberries, strawberries and walnuts. It is known to inhibit certain carcinogen-induced cancers and may have other chemopreventive properties. The effects of ellagic acid on cell cycle events and apoptosis were studied in cervical carcinoma (CaSki) cells. We found that ellagic acid at a concentration of 10(-5) M induced G arrest within 48 h, inhibited overall cell growth and induced apoptosis in CaSki cells after 72 h of treatment. Activation of the cdk inhibitory protein p21 by ellagic acid suggests a role for ellagic acin in cell cycle regulation of cancer cells." Focus: To Evaluate Red Raspberry Ellagic Acid in Prevention of Cervical Cancer There is now clinical evidence to suggest that ellagic acid concentrations at tissue sites such as the cervix may be obtained with the oral administration of red raspberries. This belief comes from bioavailability studies in which human volunteers have ingested raspberry puree. Because of this and observations in human volunteers ingesting daily quantities of raspberry puree for prevention of colon cancer, a clinical trial will examine ellagic acid from raspberries in prevention of pre-cancerous cervical lesions developing into a malignant condition. The proposed study, under the direction of Daniel Nixon, M.D., President of the American Health Foundation and Drs. Dave Gangemi and Blair Holliday of the Hollings Cancer Center/Medical University of South Carolina, will evaluate women with atypical squamous cells of undetermined significance (ASCUS) in which there is neither treatment nor clinical evaluation available. ASCUS represents as much as 10% of all Papanicolaou smears in the US and represents approximately 5 million females. In this population, these women who are infected with human papillomaviruses (HPV) types 16 and/or 18 are at the greatest risk of developing cervical cancer at some stage in their lives. In addition, women who are diagnosed with the immature metaplastic form of ASCUS usually have lesions which are higher in the endocervical canal, are more metabolically active, have flatter surface areas, and are more likely to invade the underlying connective tissue as well as the endocervical glandular epithelium. This population represents approximately one million women in the United States alone. The condition is very pronounced in countries outside the United States. In India this is one of the two major cancers affecting women. One way to evaluate the potential progression rate in these individuals is to monitor the levels of viral oncogene (E6/E7) messenger RNA expression in cervical tissue. The study with evaluate women with ASCUS who have little or no viral oncogene expression with those who have relatively elevated levels of HPV oncogene expression. The Study Approach & Red Raspberry Dosage The approach will orally administer ellagic acid (using red raspberry puree, the primary whole foods source of ellagic acid) at dosages providing detactable tissue levels in the cervix (Phase I of proposed study) over a two- year period (Phase II). Women in the study (to commence 1999-2000) will be carefully evaluated for any potential adverse effects of treatment and their E6/E7 levels carefully monitored every three months. Women receiving treatment will then undergo a full clinical evaluation at the end of the two-year trial period and changes in the levels of oncogene expression and in cervical pathology determined. Changes in women receiving the red raspberry dosage will be compared to changes in women receiving a placebo. A biostatistician will evaluate the group sizes needed to determine a statistically significant change in ASCUS progression following ellagic acid (red raspberry) ingestion. Preliminary estimates indicate that five hundred women will be needed for the generation of valid predictions. Volunteers will be recruited from the MUSC Cancer Center Access Network, Clinics and the State Department of Health and Environmental Control. Entry will be based on pathological and cytological conditions discussed herein. Individuals will be divided into low and high HPV oncogene expression groups and each group further divided into ellagic acid and placebo groups. Phase I Study In Phase I, serum levels of ellagic acid will be monitored over a two-month period. At the end of this time cervical biopsies taken to determine tissue levels. Highly sensitive analytical techniques utilizing gas chromatographic mass spectroscopy will be utilized to measure tissue concentrations. The results from Phase I will be used to determine compliance rates and the daily dosage needed to detect ellagic acid in the cervix. Phase II Study In Phase II, cervical swabs will be taken from volunteers will well-defined cytopathological changes and the cells evaluated for HPV oncogene expression using a highly sensitive biomarkers assay (reverse transcriptase- polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR). Individuals will receive oral dosages (to be determined from Phase I) of raspberry puree and be reevaluated every three months to determine the condition of their lesions (progressive, persistent, or regressive) using immunocytochemical techniques. Phase II will be a double blind placebo controlled study in which the research pharmacy laboratory will keep the treatment code. At the end of the two year period, date from each treatment group will be evaluated by a biostatistician and compared to placebo groups for changes in the rate of progression to Low Grade Cervical Intrepithelial Lesions (CINI). Any volunteer progressing to CINI during this study will be removed and given conventional therapy (colposcopy and biopsy, laser ablation, or loop excision of the transformation zone) A barrage of clinical research at Hollings Cancer Center (Charleston, SC) confirms that red raspberries, the richest food source of a substance known as ellagic acid, inhibits the growth of cancer cells. Studies under the direction of Dr. Daniel Nixon indicate that daily consumption of 150grams (1 cup) of red raspberries slows the growth of abnormal colon cells in humans, prevents (in some instances destroys) the development of cells infected with human papilloma virus (HPV) the cause of cervical cancer, and most recently found to break down extracted human leukemia cells. Dr. Nixon's anti-cancer prowess comes at a time when most Americans seek to treat medical problems through changes in diet, rather than take medication. Foods containing significant levels of biologically active components that impart health benefits beyond basic nutrition when consumed in typical or optimal serving sizes, are fast-becoming the hot button for consumers. Red raspberries as the key source of cancer preventive, cancer fighting, and in some instances cancer cell destroying ellagic acid may be the ultimate cancer-fighting food today. Food Sources of Ellagic Acid – micrograms/gm dry wt. Red Raspberries 1500 Strawberries 630 Walnuts 590 Pecans 330 Cranberries 120 Ellagic Acid is a naturally occurring phenolic constituent in certain fruits and nuts. Research in the past decade confirms that ellagic acid markedly inhibits the ability of other chemicals to cause mutations in bacteria. Ellagic acid from red raspberries has proven as an effective antimutagen and anticarcinogen as well as a inhibitor of cancer. Misc: research sources: Protective Effect of Curcumin, Ellagic Acid and Bixin on Radiation Induced Genotoxicity K.C. Thresiamma, J. George and R. Kuttan Amala Cancer Research Centre, Amala Nagar, Trichur, India Induction of micronuclei and chromosomal aberrations produced by whole body exposure of r-radiation (1.5-3.0 Gy) in mice was found to be significantly inhibited by oral administration of natural antioxidants, curcumin (400 µ moles), ellagic acid (200 µ moles) and bixin (200 µ moles) per kilogram body weight. These antioxidants induced inhibition of micronucleated polychromatic and normochromatic erythrocytes, was comparable with a-tocopherol (200 µ moles) administration. Curcumin and ellagic acid were also found to significantly reduce the number of bone marrow cells with chromosomal aberrations and chromosomal fragments as effectively as a-tocopherol. Moreover, administration of antioxidants inhibited the DNA strand breaks produced in rat lymphocytes upon radiation as seen from the DNA unwinding studies. These results indicated that antioxidant curcumin, ellagic acid and bixin provide protection against chromosome damage produced by radiation. Inhibitory effects of ellagic acid on the direct-acting mutagenicity of aflatoxin B1 in the Salmonella microsuspension assay. Loarca-Pina G, Kuzmicky PA, de Mejia EG, Kado NY Departamento de Investigacion y Posgrado, Facultad de Quimica, Universidad Autonoma de Queretaro, Qro., Mexico. Ellagic acid (EA) is a phenolic compound that exhibits both antimutagenic and anticarcinogenic activity in a wide range of assays in vitro and in vivo. It occurs naturally in some foods such as strawberries, raspberries, and grapes. In the previous work, we used the Salmonella microsuspension assay to examine the antimutagenicity of EA against the potent mutagen aflatoxin B1 (AFB1) using tester strains TA98 and TA100. Briefly, the microsuspension assay was approximately 10 times more sensitive than the standard Salmonella/microsome (Ames) test in detecting AFB1 mutagenicity, and EA significantly inhibited mutagenicity of all AFB1 doses in both tester strains with the addition of S9. The greatest inhibitory effect of EA on AFB1 mutagenicity occurred when EA and AFB1 were incubated together (with metabolic enzymes). Lower inhibition was apparent when the cells were first incubated with EA followed by a second incubation with AFB1, or when the cells were first incubated with AFB1 followed by a second incubation with EA alone, all with metabolic enzymes. The result of these sequential incubation studies indicates that one mechanism of inhibition could involve the formation of an AFB1-EA chemical complex. In the present study, we further examine the effect of EA on AFB1 mutagenicity, but without the addition of exogenous metabolic enzymes. We report the mutagenicity of AFB1 in the microsuspension assay using TA98 and TA100 without the addition of S9. Neither the concentrations of AFB1 (0.6, 1.2, and 2.4 microg/tube) nor the concentrations of EA (0.3, 1.5, 3, 10, and 20 microg/tube) were toxic to the bacteria. The results indicate that AFB1 is a direct-acting mutagen, and that EA inhibits AFB1 direct-acting mutagenicity. PMID: 9626978 Expression and its possible role in G1 arrest and apoptosis in ellagic acid treated cancer cells. Narayanan BA, Geoffroy O, Willingham MC, Re GG, Nixon DW Cancer Prevention Program, Hollings Cancer Center, Medical University of South Carolina, Charleston 29425, USA. bhagavati@musc.edu Ellagic acid is a phenolic compound present in fruits and nuts including raspberries, strawberries and walnuts. It is known to inhibit certain carcinogen-induced cancers and may have other chemopreventive properties. The effects of ellagic acid on cell cycle events and apoptosis were studied in cervical carcinoma (CaSki) cells. We found that ellagic acid at a concentration of 10(-5) M induced G arrest within 48 h, inhibited overall cell growth and induced apoptosis in CaSki cells after 72 h of treatment. Activation of the cdk inhibitory protein p21 by ellagic acid suggests a role for ellagic acid in cell cycle regulation of cancer cells. PMID: 10355751 Regression of atherosclerosis: role of nitric oxide and apoptosis. Wang BY, Ho HK, Lin PS, Schwarzacher SP, Pollman MJ, Gibbons GH, Tsao PS, Cooke JP Section of Vascular Medicine, Division of Cardiovascular Medicine, Stanford University School of Medicine, Stanford, Calif, USA. <0.01). In subsequent studies, aortas were harvested for ex vivo studies. Aortic segments were incubated in cell culture medium for 4 to 24 hours with modulators of the NO synthase pathway. The tissues were then collected for histological studies and the conditioned medium collected for measurement of nitrogen oxides by chemiluminescence. Addition of sodium nitroprusside (10(-5) mol/L) to the medium caused a time-dependent increase in apoptosis of vascular cells (largely macrophages) in the intimal lesion. L-Arginine (10(- 3) mol/L) had an identical effect on apoptosis, which was associated with an increase in nitrogen oxides released into the medium. These effects were not mimicked by D-arginine, and they were antagonized by the NO synthase inhibitor L-nitro-arginine (10(-4) mol/L). The effect of L-arginine was not influenced by an antagonist of cGMP-dependent protein kinase, nor was the effect mimicked by the agonist of protein kinase G or 8-BR cGMP. CONCLUSIONS: These results indicate that supplemental L-arginine induces apoptosis of macrophages in intimal lesions by its metabolism to NO, which acts through a GMP-independent pathway. These studies are consistent with our previous observation that supplementation of dietary arginine induces regression of atheroma in this animal model. These studies provide a rationale for further investigation of the therapeutic potential of manipulating the NO synthase pathway in atherosclerosis. PMID: 10069793 Protective effects of antioxidants on experimental liver injuries. Suzuki M, Kumazawa N, Ohta S, Kamogawa A, Shinoda M Faculty of Pharmaceutical Science, Hoshi University, Tokyo, Japan. Protective effects of 14 kinds of antioxidant on liver injury induced by carbon tetrachloride (CCl4) were investigated in terms of serum enzyme activities and bilirubin concentration. Consequently, the significant protective effects were found in sesamol, ellagic acid, cysteamine and cysteine. These antioxidants clearly decreased the lipid peroxide in the liver tissue. The protective effects on CCl4-induced liver injury in vivo were independent of the inhibitory activities on lipid peroxidation in hepatic mitochondria fraction in vitro. PMID: 2262882 Polyphenols as cancer chemopreventive agents. Stoner GD, Mukhtar H Department of Preventive Medicine, Ohio State University, Columbus 43210, USA. This article summarizes available data on the chemopreventive efficacies of tea polyphenols, curcumin and ellagic acid in various model systems. Emphasis is placed upon the anticarcinogenic activity of these polyphenols and their proposed mechanism(s) of action. Tea is grown in about 30 countries and, next to water, is the most widely consumed beverage in the world. Tea is manufactured as either green, black, or oolong; black tea represents approximately 80% of tea products. Epidemiological studies, though inconclusive, suggest a protective effect of tea consumption on human cancer. Experimental studies of the antimutagenic and anticarcinogenic effects of tea have been conducted principally with green tea polyphenols (GTPs). GTPs exhibit antimutagenic activity in vitro, and they inhibit carcinogen-induced skin, lung, forestomach, esophagus, duodenum and colon tumors in rodents. In addition, GTPs inhibit TPA- induced skin tumor promotion in mice. Although several GTPs possess anticarcinogenic activity, the most active is (-)-epigallocatechin-3-gallate (EGCG), the major constituent in the GTP fraction. Several mechanisms appear to be responsible for the tumor-inhibitory properties of GTPs, including enhancement of antioxidant (glutathione peroxidase, catalase and quinone reductase) and phase II (glutathione-S-transferase) enzyme activities; inhibition of chemically induced lipid peroxidation; inhibition of irradiation- and TPA-induced epidermal ornithine decarboxylase (ODC) and cyclooxygenase activities; inhibition of protein kinase C and cellular proliferation; antiinflammatory activity; and enhancement of gap junction intercellular communication. Curcumin is the yellow coloring agent in the spice tumeric. It exhibits antimutagenic activity in the Ames Salmonella test and has anticarcinogenic activity, inhibiting chemically induced preneoplastic lesions in the breast and colon and neoplastic lesions in the skin, forestomach, duodenum and colon of rodents. In addition, curcumin inhibits TPA-induced skin tumor promotion in mice. The mechanisms for the anticarcinogenic effects of curcumin are similar to those of the GTPs. Curcumin enhances glutathione content and glutathione-S-transferase activity in liver; and it inhibits lipid peroxidation and arachidonic acid metabolism in mouse skin, protein kinase C activity in TPA-treated NIH 3T3 cells, chemically induced ODC and tyrosine protein kinase activities in rat colon, and 8-hydroxyguanosine formation in mouse fibroblasts. Ellagic acid is a polyphenol found abundantly in various fruits, nuts and vegetables. Ellagic acid is active in antimutagenesis assays, and has been shown to inhibit chemically induced cancer in the lung, liver, skin and esophagus of rodents, and TPA-induced tumor promotion in mouse skin. PMID: 8538195 Ellagic acid induces NAD(P)H:quinone reductase through activation of the antioxidant responsive element of the rat NAD(P)H:quinone reductase gene. Barch DH, Rundhaugen LM Department of Medicine, Lakeside Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Chicago, IL. Induction of cellular detoxification enzymes can increase detoxification of carcinogens and reduce carcinogen-induced mutagenesis and tumorigenesis. To determine if the dietary anticarcinogen ellagic acid induced enzymes which detoxify xenobiotics and carcinogens, we examined the effect of ellagic acid on the expression of the phase II detoxification enzyme NAD(P)H:quinone reductase (QR). QR is induced by xenobiotics and antioxidants interacting with the xenobiotic responsive and antioxidant responsive elements of the 5' regulatory region of the QR gene. Ellagic acid is structurally related to the antioxidants which induce QR and we proposed that ellagic acid would induce QR expression through activation of the antioxidant responsive element of the QR gene. Rats fed ellagic acid demonstrated a 9-fold increase in hepatic and a 2-fold increase in pulmonary QR activity, associated with an 8-fold increase in hepatic QR mRNA. To determine if this increase in QR mRNA was due to activation of the antioxidant responsive element, transient transfection studies were performed with plasmid constructs containing various portions of the 5' regulatory region of the rat QR gene. These transfection studies confirmed that ellagic acid induces transcription of the QR gene and demonstrated that this induction is mediated through the antioxidant responsive element of the QR gene. PMID: 7522986 Pulmonary carcinogenesis and its prevention by dietary polyphenolic compounds. Castonguay A Laboratory of Cancer Etiology and Chemoprevention, School of Pharmacy, Laval University, Quebec City, Canada. The aims of this study were to define the cumulative exposure of Canadian smokers to NNK and to characterize the efficacy of ellagic acid to inhibit lung tumorigenesis induced by NNK. The sales-weighted average of NNK deliveries from Canadian cigarettes was 73.2 ng/cigarette. NNK deliveries were highly correlated to declared tar values and were linear with puff volumes between 20 and 50 ml. Ellagic acid inhibited lung tumorigenesis induced by NNK in A/J mice. This inhibition was related to the logarithm of the dose of ellagic acid added to the diet. The biodistribution of ellagic acid was studied in mice gavaged with ellagic acid. Pulmonary levels of ellagic acid were directly proportional to the dose of ellagic acid between 0.2 and 2.0 mmol/kg b.w. PMID: 8512246 Lung tumors in strain A mice: application for studies in cancer chemoprevention. Stoner GD, Adam-Rodwell G, Morse MA Ohio State University, Department of Preventive Medicine, Arthur G. James Cancer Hospital and Research Institute, Columbus 43210. Strain A mice develop a high incidence of spontaneous lung tumors during their lifetime. These tumors may be found in some animals as early as 3 to 4 weeks of age, increasing to nearly 100% by 24 months of age. The strain A mouse is also highly susceptible to the induction of lung tumors by several classes of chemical carcinogens and has been used extensively as a mouse lung tumor bioassay for assessing the carcinogenic activity of a variety of chemicals. In addition to its use in carcinogen detection, the strain A mouse lung tumor model has been employed extensively for the identification of inhibitors of chemical carcinogenesis. A number of chemopreventive agents including beta-naphthoflavone, butylated hydroxyanisole, ellagic acid, phenethyl isothiocyanate, phenylpropyl isothiocyanate, phenylbutyl isothiocyanate, phenylhexyl isothiocyanate, indole-3-carbinol, etc., have been shown to inhibit chemically induced lung tumors in strain A mice. In most instances, inhibition of lung tumorigenesis has been correlated with effects of the chemopreventive agent on the metabolic activation and/or detoxification of carcinogens. To date, no chemopreventive agent has been shown to inhibit lung tumorigenesis in strain A mice when administered after the carcinogen, i.e., during the promotion/progression stages of tumor development. Efforts should be made to develop a standardized protocol in strain A mice for evaluating chemopreventive agents as inhibitors of both the initiation and progression stages of lung tumor development. PMID: 8412213 Medical research confirms eating red raspberries may be one of the most potent ways to fight cancer. Dr. Daniel Nixon, Medical University of South Carolina (JANUARY-1999) -- One of the most popular and flavorful fruits on the market now has an entirely new reason for becoming a part of a healthy diet. Recent medical tests have shown that the red raspberry is one of the most effective all-natural ways to fight certain forms of cancer. Red raspberries have the highest content of ellagic acid, a phenolic compound that is a proven anti-carcinogen, anti-mutagen and anti-cancer initiator. Tests conducted at the Hollings Cancer Center at the Medical University of South Carolina have revealed that the ellagic acid from red raspberries is readily absorbed by the human body. This ellagic acid has been clinically shown to cause apoptosis (cell death) in cancer cells. Additional tests have revealed that the ellagic acid in red raspberries retains its potency after heating, freezing and concentration processing. So whether consumed fresh, in juices, fruit spreads, preserves or sorbets, the red raspberry should become a part of any healthy diet. Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br ------------------------------------------- Get paid to surf the WEB ! Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet ! http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608 ------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 14:07:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA31376; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:06:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:06:31 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.228] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Cure for cancer ! (Buy or Build your own) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:05:58 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Oct 2000 21:05:58.0400 (UTC) FILETIME=[624DC800:01C03559] Resent-Message-ID: <"b4sKD2.0.9g7.Nbtvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17140 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >You may want save the page that show how to do it yourself, under $10 > >Here how to do it yourself: http://www.hollynearby.com/zapper.html > I built one of these a few years ago... It was called a Nero-Charger... My wife loves it... Says it's the best sex toy ever :) Timothy... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 14:25:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA05409; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:24:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:24:17 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.228] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Coriolis Force as Nature's Lorentz Force Law Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:23:44 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Oct 2000 21:23:45.0007 (UTC) FILETIME=[DE0D17F0:01C0355B] Resent-Message-ID: <"4MIH-3.0.QK1.1stvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17141 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From: Stephen Brummitt >I would be very interested to see if those bubbles still form, if the >globe was completely filled with water. Then there is no air available >to 'stirr-up'. If they do still form, then I am completely wrong about >this. Your wrong in your thinking... Think about water as noting more, than compressed gas... As it is... Then, rethink your problem... But the experiment you suggest may raise the pressure high enough so that the cavitations may not take place... (air compresses water doesn't...) I have always been fascinated with the fact, that it may be possible to "fly" a ram jet engine under water... once the water enters the front it is cavitated into gas, then goes into the combustion camber mixed with fuel and is propelled out the back... But don't mention forces here... as they would be incredible... Timothy... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 14:31:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA06512; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:26:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:26:02 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:25:23 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, newman-l@emachine.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_c3.9fdea4b.2718d7c3_boundary" X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"lSOfS.0.Xb1.gttvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17142 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Want to see if opinions differ on forces --part1_c3.9fdea4b.2718d7c3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, Over the years I have got many different opinions as to the forces that take place between the two parts shown in this drawing. I want to see what force will be experienced between the magnet and the ferrite when the magnet is moved straight up toward the ferrite. Also at different speeds, slow, medium, fast, etc. What force would act on a person's hand if they were holding the magnet and pushing it up toward the ferrite. I am only concerned with forces up to the contact point but not at actual contact. Will there be repulsion, attraction, neutral forces? If so, where and when in the travel? I have got different answers on the simple process for years and would like to see what I get now after a couple of years have gone by. It's almost if no one knows what forces are at work here durning this short movement up of the magnet. 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freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 119 Resent-Message-ID: <"g6zTm1.0.rr1.mutvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17143 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: 40mw IR laser diode for sale or trade Hi,anyone want to trade a he-ne laser or buy a 40mwmax IR laser diode?Make me an offer.Its unused. matt From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 15:34:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA06453; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:33:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:33:22 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:33:13 -0400 Message-Id: <200010132233.SAA29888@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Coriolis Force as Nature's Lorentz Force Law Resent-Message-ID: <"XuNvb2.0.ga1.nsuvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17144 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Hello Michael, > >In the set-up that I saw in the video you mentioned, I had to seriously >question, if the circumstances were actually present there, for the >formation of cavitation bubbles. I am more inclined to think, that the >small bubbles there were just being 'stirred-up' from the turbulence; >and, are the result of air, which was just pulled down through the >center of the vortex, and just swirled around in the current. > >The shape of that magnet, at that speed (while inducing some degree of >turbulence), the flow still appears to be too laminar, for the pressure >drop needed to induce cavitation. > >I would be very interested to see if those bubbles still form, if the >globe was completely filled with water. Then there is no air available >to 'stirr-up'. If they do still form, then I am completely wrong about >this. > >Stephen Brummitt >___________________________________________________________ Ahoy Steve, You are correct about the very good possibility of the bubbles being pulled in from the air, but Jean-Louis is also still correct in calling them cavitation bubbles. The confusion is in the terminology, which I will explain. In marine engineering, the term cavitation bubbles are used to define any bubble that is not injected by pressure or by the application of heat to the water. It includes all bubbles that are formed as a result of low pressure, even the ones that are drug in from the air. An example would be if you had a water pump, and a small leak developed in the suction side or supply side plumbing, something that is quite common, and goes unnoticed because water doesn't leak out, air leaks in. What happens in poorly designed plumbing and even in poorly designed pumps is that that the air can form pockets in places, and cause many pumps to lose their prime, and burn up. This is still referred to in the literature as cavitation because it is a result of a low pressure situation. Another example would be air that is dissolved in the water being brought together by a low pressure formation in the liquid. Unfortunately, when the "magic bubbles" or the ones that are unusual in that they cause excess heat, chemical reactions, nuclear reactions, light emissions, and so forth were first discovered, they were also called cavitation bubbles. Technically, this is also correct as they were also formed as a result of low pressures, but there is nothing really for the reader to give a good understanding in order to differentiate between the two different kinds of bubbles. The "magical ones" are ones that are forced by higher pressures to collapse, and it has been found that in some cases that they form damped oscillators, collapsing and reforming many times per second. The resulting bubbles from those types of reactions have been found not to float or rise to the surface in certain regimes. They have been found to stay in suspension for periods lasting as long as 18 months. I've verified this myself with my device, although I usually threw the water out after a week. These types of bubbles have found good uses in the medical field as drug delivery agents, and NMR enhancement. They have also found good uses in some water purification systems. While it would be interesting and possible that Jean-Louis is producing the latter type of bubble, it is most probable that he is either pulling in air from the outside or even possibly disassociating the water with the movement of the magnet. Only a chemical analysis of the resulting gas and liquid would be able to differentiate between all the possibilities, and properly identify the right mechanism. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 15:37:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA08036; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:36:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:36:21 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20001013153348.21f73bd8@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:33:48 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Want to see if opinions differ on forces In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Oh2bK3.0.Tz1.bvuvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17145 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Butch, At 05:25 PM 10/13/00 EDT, you wrote: >Hello all, >Over the years I have got many different opinions as to the forces that take >place between the two parts shown in this drawing. I want to see what force >will be experienced between the magnet and the ferrite when the magnet is >moved straight up toward the ferrite. There will be attraction. The force from the flux from the shorted coil is repulsive, but since it is proportional to the change in flux, it cannot overcome the attraction to the ferrite. In other words, the shorted coil dampens the force, but cannot change its net direction. -Dave D. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 16:15:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA24923; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:15:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:15:10 -0700 Message-ID: <39E7A37C.AF7AA148@harti.com> Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 01:06:20 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <00a801c03174$57a56b80$4700fed4@adolf.schneider> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VTwm-1.0.856.-Tvvv"@mx1> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17146 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Neutrinolysis, will this change our world ? http://overunity.terrashare.com/shad/index.html Neutrinolysis unit Splitting water, gasoline or kerosine with just the help of Neutrino-power ! (The "Neutrino egg") ! It just needs a pump to let the water flow through the Neutrino-Diffusor egg. There it is splitted without any electrical input into oxyhydrogen gas and you can see (in this case) the water coming out with the oxyhydrogen bubles from the hose. It also works with gas and kerosine, so you have a very efficient carburetor ! It works by attracting the Neutrinos from the Kosmos and simular to an Orgon Accumulator and resonating the water, so it is splitted at special passive resonance electrodes. No electrical power needed. You could also place this Neutrino-Diffusor egg into a flowing river and thus generate oxyhydrogen gas ! Invented by Shad. Released 13th of October 2000 copyright by http://shadaether.tripod.com and http://www.overunity.com Neutrinolysis Einheit Spaltet Wasser, Benzin und Kerosin mit Hilfe von Neutrino-Energie ! Braucht keine elektrische Energie, um Wasser in Knallgas zu spalten ! Das Wasser wird in diesem Fall durch das Neutrino-Diffusor-Ei gepumpt und am Schlauch kommt Knallgas mit Rest-Wasser gemixt heraus ! Ganz ohne elektrische Energie im Ei. Es könnte auch in einen Fluss gestellt werden und würde dann auch Knallgas erzeugen, gänzliche ohne externe Energiezufuhr ! Man kann es aber auch als extrem guten Vergaser für Benzin oder Kerosin verwenden, der dann eine sehr hohe Effiziens hat ! Im Ei sind passive Resonatoren für die Neutrino-Wasser Kopplung vorhanden, so daß das Wasser an diesen speziellen Elektroden gespaltet wird. Erfinder: Shad. Veröffentlicht am 13. Oktober 2000 copyright by http://shadaether.tripod.com und http://www.overunity.com -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 16:24:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA28065; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:19:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:19:11 -0700 Message-ID: <39E79853.B884FC4@icx.net> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:18:43 -0400 From: Stephen Brummitt Organization: D E V X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Coriolis Force as Nature's Lorentz Force Law References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"o6_wP.0.Qs6.kXvvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17147 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Timothy, Timothy Flytch wrote: > > >From: Stephen Brummitt > > >I would be very interested to see if those bubbles still form, if the > >globe was completely filled with water. Then there is no air >> available to 'stirr-up'. If they do still form, then I am completely >> wrong about this. > > Your wrong in your thinking... Think about water as noting more, than > compressed gas... As it is... Then, rethink your problem... I don't quite follow what you're getting at, with that first statement. Yes, at a certain temperature, and pressure, water uncompresses and becomes steam. But (as I already know), and you suggest, unless the proper conditions are met, cavitation doesn't take place. Cavitation takes place in the air behind a airplane propeller; and, behind the screw of a submarine deep in the ocean. Both settings, require certain conditions, and produce their own unique physical consequences. > But the experiment you suggest may raise the pressure high enough so > that the cavitations may not take place... (air compresses water > doesn't...) Possibly; but, if I were a betting man, I'd say that a little bit more water in that particular little globe, is probably not going to make that much of a difference. Jean probably noticed those bubbles starting, at a significantly lower speed, than when the magnet reached it's highest RPM. A little higher pressure in a full container, would only require a slightly higher RPM, to accomplish the same relative 'pressure drop', (IF, cavitation really is taking place.) IF, as I suspect, the turbulence at the bottom of the sphere is kicking up those bubbles, then the only other way I know, to prove my point to your satisfaction, would be to put colored smoke in the air, and see if the bubbles adopt that color. If not, then cavitation is truly taking place, and I really am wrong. Stephen Brummitt ________________________ > > I have always been fascinated with the fact, that it may be possible to > "fly" a ram jet engine under water... once the water enters the front it is > cavitated into gas, then goes into the combustion camber mixed with fuel and > is propelled out the back... > But don't mention forces here... as they would be incredible... > > Timothy... > ________________________________________________________________________ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 16:50:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA10172; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:49:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:49:25 -0700 Message-ID: <39E79F6E.9CA95D44@icx.net> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:49:02 -0400 From: Stephen Brummitt Organization: D E V X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Coriolis Force as Nature's Lorentz Force Law References: <200010132233.SAA29888@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RiyV22.0.nU2.4-vvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17148 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello Michael, I have to ask, when you say: > it is most probable that he is either pulling in air from the outside > or even possibly disassociating the water with the movement of the > magnet. Do you mean that he is disassociating the 'dissolved' air, from the water it is in; or, do you actually mean, that it is possible to actually disassociate the hydrogen from the oxygen, in the water, by merely swirling a magnet in it? I seriously doubt it is the latter. I for one, would hope that it's true; but, why has nobody ever discovered that before? Drill a hole in the top of the globe, let the gas accumulate, and light a match. That would be all the "chemical analysis", that I would need. Stephen Brummitt __________________________________________________________________ Michael T Huffman wrote: > > >Hello Michael, > > > >In the set-up that I saw in the video you mentioned, I had to > > seriouslyquestion, if the circumstances were actually present there, > > for the formation of cavitation bubbles. I am more inclined to > > think, that the small bubbles there were just being 'stirred-up' > > from the turbulence; and, are the result of air, which was just > > pulled down through the center of the vortex, and just swirled > > around in the current. > > > > The shape of that magnet, at that speed (while inducing some degree > > of turbulence), the flow still appears to be too laminar, for the > > pressure drop needed to induce cavitation. > > > > I would be very interested to see if those bubbles still form, if > > the globe was completely filled with water. Then there is no air > > available to 'stirr-up'. If they do still form, then I am completely > > wrong about this. > > > > Stephen Brummitt > > ___________________________________________________________ > > Ahoy Steve, > > You are correct about the very good possibility of the bubbles being > pulled in from the air, but Jean-Louis is also still correct in > calling them cavitation bubbles. The confusion is in the terminology, > which I will explain. > > In marine engineering, the term cavitation bubbles are used to define > any bubble that is not injected by pressure or by the application of > heat to the water. It includes all bubbles that are formed as a > result of low pressure, even the ones that are drug in from the air. > An example would be if you had a water pump, and a small leak > developed in the suction side or supply side plumbing, something that > is quite common, and goes unnoticed because water doesn't leak out, > air leaks in. What happens in poorly designed plumbing > and even in poorly designed pumps is that that the air can form > pockets in places, and cause many pumps to lose their prime, and burn > up. This is still referred to in the literature as cavitation because > it is a result of a low pressure situation. Another example would > air that is dissolved in the water being brought together by a low > pressure formation in the liquid. > > Unfortunately, when the "magic bubbles" or the ones that are unusual > in that they cause excess heat, chemical reactions, nuclear reactions, > light emissions, and so forth were first discovered, they were also > called cavitation bubbles. Technically, this is also correct as they > were also formed as a result of low pressures, but there is nothing > really for the reader to give a good understanding in order to > differentiate between the two different kinds of bubbles. The > "magical ones" are ones that are forced by higher pressures to > collapse, and it has been found that in some cases that they form > damped oscillators, collapsing and reforming many times per second. > The resulting bubbles from those types of reactions have been found > not to float or rise to the surface in certain regimes. They have > been found to stay in suspension for periods lasting as long as 18 > months. I've verified this myself with my device, although I usually > threw the water out after a week. These types of bubbles have found > good uses in the medical field as drug delivery agents, and NMR > enhancement. They have also found good uses in some water > purification systems. > > While it would be interesting and possible that Jean-Louis is > producing the latter type of bubble, it is most probable that he is > either pulling in air from the outside or even possibly disassociating > the water with the movement of the magnet. Only a chemical analysis > of the resulting gas and liquid would be able to differentiate between > all the possibilities, and properly identify the right mechanism. > > Knuke > > Michael T. Huffman > Huffman Technology Company > 1121 Dustin Drive > The Villages, Florida 32159 > (352)259-1276 > knuke@LCIA.COM > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 17:34:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA28052; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:28:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:28:56 -0700 Message-ID: <39E7B529.F2212120@harti.com> Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 02:21:45 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: HLafonte@aol.com References: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------565CC168EA40BE803D32C629" Resent-Message-ID: <"oKyuv3.0.7s6.7Zwvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17149 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Magnet going to shorted coil ?! Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. --------------565CC168EA40BE803D32C629 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Butch, very good question ! I guess, that it would attract the ferrite core, in the first moment faster and as it comes nearer the force will be less, but it will go until it will make contact ! Now here could be the trick to get this process OU: Don´t short the coil, but charge a cap with the EMF it generates, whne the magnet approaches. Now you have a few volts inside the cap, shortly before the magnet makes contact. In this moment (it should not have yet make contact !) you open the coil circuit and thus flush all the energy the coil has stored away via a spark! (but not the cap energy, cause in this moment the cap is not anymore connected) Now take the cap with the stored voltage (energy) and reverse wire it to the coil, so the few volts inside the cap would build up a magnet field, which is reversed to the permanent magnet ! This will instantly repell the permanent magnet and you could pull the PM to the side away ! Now you could begin the process cycle again. If the coil and cap and the core is designed with the right dimension, there will be still left some electric energy (voltage) left inside the cap which will add up at the next cycle and this will rise the energy level (voltage ) inside the capacitor and thus you could additional connect a load ! I guess this could be really made an OU cycle ! 2. You could also replace the ferrite core and the copper coil around it with an iron-steelwire core, so the core is just a iron- or steel-wire coil in itsself. This might have some benefit, cause it might need less reverse voltage from the cap, when you want to build up the reppeling field ! Think about it. Hope this all is right ! Good luck ! Best regards, Stefan. HLafonte@aol.com schrieb: > > Hello all, > Over the years I have got many different opinions as to the forces that take > place between the two parts shown in this drawing. I want to see what force > will be experienced between the magnet and the ferrite when the magnet is > moved straight up toward the ferrite. Also at different speeds, slow, medium, > fast, etc. What force would act on a person's hand if they were holding the > magnet and pushing it up toward the ferrite. I am only concerned with forces > up to the contact point but not at actual contact. Will there be repulsion, > attraction, neutral forces? If so, where and when in the travel? I have got > different answers on the simple process for years and would like to see what > I get now after a couple of years have gone by. It's almost if no one knows > what forces are at work here durning this short movement up of the magnet. > Thanks, > Butch LaFonte > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > [Image] -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity --------------565CC168EA40BE803D32C629 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="FORCES.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="FORCES.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wAAR CAFGAcYDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA 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dfigooorqPDCiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKK KKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiig AooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigD//Z --------------565CC168EA40BE803D32C629-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 18:51:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA25032; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:50:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:50:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:50:23 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, webhead-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"4_mIy.0.d66.ilxvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17150 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Bill B. on "In Search Of" The film crew for FOX "In Search Of" came by and taped me while out in the garage messing with microwave ovens. Fried CDs, burst eggs, arcing foil, ball lightning from candles, glowing light bulb plasmas and fluorescent tubes! And crude estimations of poodle explosion times. The show will be aired in early November (it's the Urban Legends episode), and with luck I'll be on for about 4 minutes or so. I don't yet know the date, or even if their lawyers will make them cut that part! :) EPISODE 7 http://www.insearchofonline.com/episodes/urbanlegends/ FORUM http://www.insearchofonline.com/searchers_forum/ ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 19:29:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA09937; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:29:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:29:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:29:12 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: energy21@listbot.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, newman-l@emachine.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Want to see if opinions differ on forces In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2fxvC1.0.9R2._Jyvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17151 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > Hello all, > Over the years I have got many different opinions as to the forces that take > place between the two parts shown in this drawing. I want to see what force > will be experienced between the magnet and the ferrite when the magnet is > moved straight up toward the ferrite. Also at different speeds, slow, medium, > fast, etc. Whoa, I was just analyzing EXACTLY that geometry two weeks ago as part of a student Maglev project I was giving help to! Very weird coincidence. I had just thrown a version of that device together and it behaved differently than I expected. I expected repulsion at high velocity, and attraction at low, but instead I got attraction always. The cause looked fairly obvious, so I stopped thinking about it. Here's my solution. If the copper was to cover the entire ferrite U-shape, then you'd see repulsion at high magnet speeds, but attraction at lower speeds. There would be repulsion at high speeds because the magnet induces a large current in the shorted copper loop, and this causes the copper and ferrite to act like a "mirror magnet" which repels the permanent magnet. Because the copper does not cover the whole ferrite "U", at high magnet speeds the "mirror magnet" still forms... but it's only as long as the copper region! It will try to repel its own ferrite "legs." The permanent magnet will polarize the "legs" of the ferrite "U" in the opposite direction than the copper does. That means that the large Bloch Wall where north meets south will be somewhere inside the legs of the Ferrite "U," and as long as the repulsion cannot burst the ferrite apart, it will create no noticable forces. And THAT means that if the permanent magnet approaches the ferrite in your diagram, the length of the flux lines associated with the PM will see less and less space and more and more percentage of ferrite in the magnetic loop, therefore the PM will be attracted. Only if the copper could force the "bloch wall" to form in the air between the two objects would there be repulsion. Another way to think about it: Replace the copper with a short rod of superconductor, and glue ferrite "legs" to it so it still resembles the diagram you've provided. In that case as the PM approaches, a region of repulsion will appear where the ferrite touches the superconductor. But since the ferrite is glued down, it cannot fly off. The PM will still be attracted to the ferrite "legs", even though there is hidden repulsion occuring between the superconductor rod and the ferrite. > I get now after a couple of years have gone by. It's almost if no one knows > what forces are at work here durning this short movement up of the magnet. Try winding a shorted coil around the ENTIRE ferrite "U", not just in one spot. If I understand it right, then the PM will repel the ferrite/copper electromagnet if it approaches quickly, but attract if it approaches slowly. An identical effect appears with Maglev vehicles using the InducTrack system. At low speeds of the train, the permanent magnets attract any iron cores in the track. But as the speed goes up, the shorted copper bands start producing more and more repulsion. At a certain speed, the repulsion dominates, and the train starts to fly. If the shorted bands were made from superconductor, then the speed threshold would be zero, and the maglev train would keep flying even if it came to a halt. PS, my version used an AC coil instead of a permanent magnet. That's like rotating the PM at high RPM. I put a bunch of thick copper rings on a laminated iron "U", but found that the darned thing always attracted. The attraction was less with the copper rings than without. I didn't try covering the entire "U" with copper rings though. I assumed that doing so would force the "legs" to polarize correctly, and produce the repulsion effect I wanted. PPS, another similar situation would be to take TWO ferrite "U" shapes, wind one AC coil in the middle of each, then apply power to form two AC electromagnets. Then hold them near each other (with the current phase chosen for repulsion.) If the current in both coils was the same value, then the electromagnets would repel no matter how close they came. But if one current was significantly higher, then as you forced them to approach, the "zero field" plane would move into the "legs" of one electromagnet. After that, the two electromagnets would attract. The legs of the low-current electromagnet would experience internal repulsion strain, even though the force between the two separate electromagnets was attractive. I think. If the cores were made from stacked ferrite disks, maybe you'd see the legs burst apart when the zero-field plane pushed into the ferrite. Cool! Each disk would sequentially leap over to the second electromagnet, leaving a gap at the location of the zero-field plane! If you turned the power supply for one electromagnet up and down, the ferrite disks should go "clackclackclack", and you'd see a "hole" moving along the stack of disks, and the two electromagnets would always repel! The ferrite would adjust its geometery to always produce overall repulsion. No? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 19:50:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA16844; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:50:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:50:20 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001013214643.00c43230@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 21:52:53 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Frenette questions In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"rBPaY2.0.274.hdyvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17152 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ? Brian: Most efficient electrical heater is resistive. 1000W in = 1000W out Never heard of a 3 to 1 inductive heater, even in the hoaxes... is this new? do you have any references? At 11:04 PM 10/12/00 -0400, you wrote: >I'm thinking about building a Frenette friction heater which is supposed to >yield 3 X the heat compared to the amount of energy put into it. Anybody >have any experience building one and have any advice for me? > >Thanks, >Brian Drake >(Bmd2323@aol.com) > >****** Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste >good with ketchup. ****** Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 20:16:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA25759; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:16:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:16:04 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:15:41 -0400 Message-Id: <200010140315.XAA27535@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Coriolis Force as Nature's Lorentz Force Law Resent-Message-ID: <"gR_Qx2.0.OI6.m_yvv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17153 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Hello Michael, > >I have to ask, when you say: > >> it is most probable that he is either pulling in air from the outside >> or even possibly disassociating the water with the movement of the >> magnet. > >Do you mean that he is disassociating the 'dissolved' air, from the >water it is in; or, do you actually mean, that it is possible to >actually disassociate the hydrogen from the oxygen, in the water, by >merely swirling a magnet in it? > >I seriously doubt it is the latter. > >I for one, would hope that it's true; but, why has nobody ever >discovered that before? Drill a hole in the top of the globe, let the >gas accumulate, and light a match. That would be all the "chemical >analysis", that I would need. > >Stephen Brummitt Hi Steve, I think it is possible to disassociate water by spinning a magnet in it, and that it has been proven. I don't have any references to that affect, but I know that it is the working theory behind those magnetic clothes washing balls that were the rage a few years ago. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 23:27:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA07231; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:26:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:26:55 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01c03566$fe952f20$7fe5b5d0@a9o0z0> From: "Alik S" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: 40mw IR laser diode for sale or trade Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:43:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"U3mCd3.0.pm1.io_vv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17154 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com How much do you want for it ? Do you have biasing specs ? (40mw IR) Thanks Alik -----Original Message----- From: Fucian@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Friday, October 13, 2000 9:26 PM Subject: [FG]: 40mw IR laser diode for sale or trade >Hi,anyone want to trade a he-ne laser or buy a 40mwmax IR laser diode?Make me >an offer.Its unused. > >matt > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 23:43:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA10694; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:43:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:43:13 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.74] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Coriolis Force as Nature's Lorentz Force Law Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:42:38 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2000 06:42:39.0112 (UTC) FILETIME=[F1EF7080:01C035A9] Resent-Message-ID: <"0mIUr2.0.-c2._10wv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17155 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) >that it has been proven. I don't have any references to that affect, but I >know that it is the working theory behind those magnetic clothes washing >balls that were the rage a few years ago. Not meant as a flame Michael, But I've read a lot that states that those close balls were just junk science... A rip off... The conclusion is that your close get just as clean with them as with just plane water... Timothy... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 14 00:10:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA16125; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 00:10:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 00:10:24 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.74] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Coriolis Force as Nature's Lorentz Force Law Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 00:09:52 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2000 07:09:52.0388 (UTC) FILETIME=[BF719440:01C035AD] Resent-Message-ID: <"HK9JC.0.sx3.WR0wv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17156 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Stephen, This was not meant as a flame... it came off a lot harsher then I intended... Sorry... I was just "shooting from the hip" so to speak... I was thinking closed system... Timothy... >From: Stephen Brummitt >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: [FG]: Coriolis Force as Nature's Lorentz Force Law >Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:18:43 -0400 > >Hi Timothy, > >Timothy Flytch wrote: > > > > >From: Stephen Brummitt > > > > >I would be very interested to see if those bubbles still form, if the > > >globe was completely filled with water. Then there is no air > >> available to 'stirr-up'. If they do still form, then I am completely >> >wrong about this. > > > > Your wrong in your thinking... Think about water as noting more, than > > compressed gas... As it is... Then, rethink your problem... > >I don't quite follow what you're getting at, with that first statement. >Yes, at a certain temperature, and pressure, water uncompresses and >becomes steam. But (as I already know), and you suggest, unless the >proper conditions are met, cavitation doesn't take place. > >Cavitation takes place in the air behind a airplane propeller; and, >behind the screw of a submarine deep in the ocean. Both settings, >require certain conditions, and produce their own unique physical >consequences. > > > But the experiment you suggest may raise the pressure high enough so > > that the cavitations may not take place... (air compresses water > > doesn't...) > >Possibly; but, if I were a betting man, I'd say that a little bit more >water in that particular little globe, is probably not going to make >that much of a difference. Jean probably noticed those bubbles starting, >at a significantly lower speed, than when the magnet reached it's >highest RPM. A little higher pressure in a full container, would only >require a slightly higher RPM, to accomplish the same relative 'pressure >drop', (IF, cavitation really is taking place.) > >IF, as I suspect, the turbulence at the bottom of the sphere is kicking >up those bubbles, then the only other way I know, to prove my point to >your satisfaction, would be to put colored smoke in the air, and see if >the bubbles adopt that color. If not, then cavitation is truly taking >place, and I really am wrong. > >Stephen Brummitt > >________________________ > > > > I have always been fascinated with the fact, that it may be possible to > > "fly" a ram jet engine under water... once the water enters the front it >is > > cavitated into gas, then goes into the combustion camber mixed with fuel >and > > is propelled out the back... > > But don't mention forces here... as they would be incredible... > > > > Timothy... > > ________________________________________________________________________ > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 14 06:08:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA01224; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 06:07:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 06:07:32 -0700 Message-ID: <39E86594.69C00F46@harti.com> Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 14:54:28 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <00a801c03174$57a56b80$4700fed4@adolf.schneider> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"e4zKg.0.uI.Kg5wv"@mx1> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17157 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Neutrinolysis pics ! Important ! Hi All, regarding the Neutrinolysis pictures I posted at: http://overunity.terrashare.com/shad/index.html This is the only information I already have from SHAD. All further questions about it should be sent directly to: Shad Htwoo email: waterpowers2@yahoo.com He is the inventor. He wants to sell and market the invention. So there will be only NDAs to sign, to know the inner workings of the Neutrino-Diffusor egg. It could probably be easily scaled up for a bigger output with just bigger dimensions of his materials used. I will get in a few days a video tape from him, where he has taped the burning of the oxyhydrogen and gasoline bubbles he is able to produce with it. Due to his limited photo equipment he was not able to record this to his photos. The video I will post will show it all much better . Imagine hooking this thing to your watertap at the kitchen sink and letting stream the water this way through it and thus produce your cooking gas heat for preparing your food ! I guess this is really a major new invention. So contact Shad if you are interested to market this invention. -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 14 06:10:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02559; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 06:10:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 06:10:35 -0700 Message-ID: <39E8673B.114F050@harti.com> Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:01:31 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <00a801c03174$57a56b80$4700fed4@adolf.schneider> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KoQlm3.0.ld.Bj5wv"@mx1> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17158 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Neutrinolysis,explanations from Shad Re: http://overunity.terrashare.com/shad/index.html > Congratulations Shad and Stefan, > > Where I can find a diagram, which shows the basic > principle ( I.E how the > tune are connected to the egg ? ) Yet, I cannot publish any diagramm. Cca. on Tuesday Stefan Hartmann will receive a video tape showing the running unit, dissociating gasoline and water, and ignition of the bubbles in an open bubbler at a water surface. There everything will be visible, but it only is a homevideo, and the quality is not very satisfying. By the end of this month, all units will be documented in a professional studio on Betacam, and everything will be very clearly visible. We will post this video as well! Stefan Hartmann anyway gets the video, and if you will be interested I could send you a tape or DVD with a copy of this documentation. The "egg" is a passive part - I call it NEUTRINO DIFFUSER - because in the egg a diffusion process of the aether eddies (neutrinos) occures. One of the "ingedients" here is titanium, and I am very grateful to Dr. Patrick Flanagan, for advicing me, bringing me to this idea with titanium, and for his financial supports throughout this year! This egg is made similar to the principle of the Orgone accumulator, which creates open field lines, unipolar field order (broken symmetry), in reciprocal action with the neutrino radiation. But the main part is the pre-programmed resonator in the center of the "egg", which does not need any further energy to be able to do its work. On the resonator a gas-film is created, and the faster the fluid is "washing" it down from there, the faster new gas can be created at the same place. That´s why I use a pump, to support this process. By the broken symmetry of the egg (neutrino diffuser), it attracts resonant oscillating neutrinos, which come into reciprocal action with water, gasoline, or kerosine (the H-protons and molecules). When the molecules collide with the neutrinos radiation they come into an even higher rotational speed. If the electrical charge of the molecules is sufficiently accelerated also a magnetic field is created. If I rotate both field, the electrical and the magnetic in the weak magnetic field of the earth, then a "neutrinolysis" between the molecular bonds occures - and the fluid is dissociated, and transforms into gas. It could be possible, that I have "weighty" water, mean H3... no common oxyhydrogen gas. One could say that water molecules have ferro magnetic qualities as iron, where the eddy currents unfold. A huge role as well plays the dipole character of the water molecules and the conductivity of the medium, where the diffusion process occures. Those who do not believe in the existnece of neutrinos radiation might call this cold fusion?! :) Stefan Hartmann or I will keep you up to date! With kindest regards, Shad -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 14 09:33:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA26112; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 09:32:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 09:32:50 -0700 Message-ID: <39E88A8E.164E8C89@harti.com> Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:32:15 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, gn@wisemansbrand.com, "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Newman-L Mailing List X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <00a801c03174$57a56b80$4700fed4@adolf.schneider> <39E8673B.114F050@harti.com> <39E87106.1A05A14C@wisemansbrand.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uZjd13.0.rN6.og8wv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17159 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re:Neutrinolysis,also to split gasoline ! Hi Gerard, Shad says, it even works better for gasoline and kerosine, so he is also interested to cooperate with the oil and car industry to develop better and more efficient carburetors ! This might lead to a car, that can go 100 kms with just one liter of gasoline ! :) Sorry, I don´t know, how it works yet, but I guess it is pretty easy, if you know the right parts for the resonator and the electrodes. Shad told me, he has invested about 300.000 US$ for his research during the last years and he does not want to give it away for free now... Also he is probably not going to patent it, but just put it onto the market with a bigger company in the background who will just produce it and sell it ! There are now many possibilities were this invention could be used. It could enhance almost all parts of our lives ! Regards, Stefan. Gé, Nefkens, gn@wisemansbrand.com schrieb: > > Hi > If this is real O/U, the only way to > SURVIVE for Shad, his associates > and their families included > is to publish all details on 100 websites or > more and forget immediately > about patents. > > I wish very much their survival ! > Gerard > France > http://www.layo.com > > Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > > > > Re: > > > > http://overunity.terrashare.com/shad/index.html > > > > > Congratulations Shad and Stefan, > > > > > > Where I can find a diagram, which shows the basic > > > principle ( I.E how the > > > tune are connected to the egg ? ) > > > > Yet, I cannot publish any diagramm. Cca. on Tuesday > > Stefan Hartmann will receive a video tape showing the > > running unit, dissociating gasoline and water, and > > ignition of the bubbles in an open bubbler at a water > > surface. > > > > There everything will be visible, but it only is a > > homevideo, and the quality is not very satisfying. > > > > By the end of this month, all units will be documented > > in a professional studio on Betacam, and everything > > will be very clearly visible. We will post this video > > as well! > > > > Stefan Hartmann anyway gets the video, and if you will > > be interested I could send you a tape or DVD with a > > copy of this documentation. > > > > The "egg" is a passive part - I call it NEUTRINO > > DIFFUSER - because in the egg a diffusion process of > > the aether eddies (neutrinos) occures. > > > > One of the "ingedients" here is titanium, and I am > > very grateful to Dr. Patrick Flanagan, for advicing > > me, bringing me to this idea with titanium, and for > > his financial supports throughout this year! > > > > This egg is made similar to the principle of the > > Orgone accumulator, which creates open field lines, > > unipolar field order (broken symmetry), in reciprocal > > action with the neutrino radiation. > > > > But the main part is the pre-programmed resonator in > > the center of the "egg", which does not need any > > further energy to be able to do its work. On the > > resonator a gas-film is created, and the faster the > > fluid is "washing" it down from there, the faster new > > gas can be created at the same place. That´s why I use > > a pump, to support this process. > > > > By the broken symmetry of the egg (neutrino diffuser), > > it attracts resonant oscillating neutrinos, which come > > into reciprocal action with water, gasoline, or > > kerosine (the H-protons and molecules). > > > > When the molecules collide with the neutrinos > > radiation they come into an even higher rotational > > speed. > > If the electrical charge of the molecules is > > sufficiently accelerated also a magnetic field is > > created. If I rotate both field, the electrical and > > the magnetic in the weak magnetic field of the earth, > > then a "neutrinolysis" between the molecular bonds > > occures - and the fluid is dissociated, and transforms > > into gas. > > > > It could be possible, that I have "weighty" water, > > mean H3... no common oxyhydrogen gas. > > > > One could say that water molecules have ferro magnetic > > qualities as iron, where the eddy currents unfold. > > A huge role as well plays the dipole character of the > > water molecules and the conductivity of the medium, > > where the diffusion process occures. > > > > Those who do not believe in the existnece of neutrinos > > radiation might call this cold fusion?! :) > > > > Stefan Hartmann or I will keep you up to date! > > > > With kindest regards, > > Shad > > -- > > > > Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. > > -- > > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > > Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > > email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com > > Better getting paid to surf the WEB: > > http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 > > http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne > > http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N > > Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! > > -- > > Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! > > http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 14 10:02:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA01217; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:02:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:02:01 -0700 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: <9f.be9270c.2719eb64@aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:01:24 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Frenette questions To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"z2pTI.0.wI.969wv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17160 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Charles, The Frenette heater isn't all that new, Eugene Frenette invented it in the late 1970s. He then promptly disappeared according to my sources. He filed a patent on it which is number 4,143,639. A few other people have patented variations of his design. One of these is 4,651,681 by Eugene W. Perkins. My main reference for all this is an Infolio put out by Rex Research. The whole device is relatively simple to make and supposedly provided heat for a 16 room house at a cost of $30.00/month. I can provide a scan of the main patent drawing if that would help. Brian ****** Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. ****** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 14 10:05:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA02763; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:05:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:05:03 -0700 Message-ID: <32606899.971543072040.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com> Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:04:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Geoffrey Tilga To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Bill B. on "In Search Of" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 64.20.201.45 Resent-Message-ID: <"i2AG_.0.1h.-89wv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17161 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hey,Bill: Please post an email to the discussion group a day or so before this monumentous video event-so i do not forget to watch Yours Truly in his unofficial lab trying to detirmine forbidden secrets! Also channel and network, or where i could find out locally here in Rochester. (its out of the dominant paradigm, you know. Heresey! Apostasy! Deviating from the True Faith-Value Free Science they call it...) i remain- Geoffrey Wayne Tilga catusfelis@excite.com oct 14,2000 On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:50:23 -0700 (PDT), freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > > The film crew for FOX "In Search Of" came by and taped me while out in the > garage messing with microwave ovens. Fried CDs, burst eggs, arcing foil, > ball lightning from candles, glowing light bulb plasmas and fluorescent > tubes! And crude estimations of poodle explosion times. The show will be > aired in early November (it's the Urban Legends episode), and with luck > I'll be on for about 4 minutes or so. I don't yet know the date, or even > if their lawyers will make them cut that part! :) > > EPISODE 7 > http://www.insearchofonline.com/episodes/urbanlegends/ > > FORUM > http://www.insearchofonline.com/searchers_forum/ > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 14 11:23:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA22253; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 11:22:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 11:22:42 -0700 Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 14:22:32 -0400 Message-Id: <200010141822.OAA05805@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Coriolis Force as Nature's Lorentz Force Law Resent-Message-ID: <"4fH291.0.XR5.nHAwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17162 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tim writes: >Not meant as a flame Michael, But I've read a lot that states that those >close balls were just junk science... A rip off... The conclusion is that >your close get just as clean with them as with just plane water... > >Timothy... Hi Tim, Yeah, I don't know enough about them to say with certainty if they were any better than plain water, or not. I did try them for a while, and they seemed to perform some cleaning, although in general, things looked just a tad grungier than normal. I was working on the Polar Bear in Seattle at the time, and so my clothes were constantly, completely soaked in diesel, old motor oil, bilge and covered with ground-in rust every day. After washing, it appeared to me that my clothes were cleaner with the balls than they would have been without them, but I didn't do any real tests. Consumer Reports Magazine might have done a write up on them, I would have to check. For a real, controlled test, you would need a microscope, and a standard way of applying dirt to samples of fabric. I just remember reading the blurb on the box about how they were supposed to work, and thought I'd give them a try. I am pretty much in favor of trying things that reduce or eliminate the detergent, just because of the environmental damage that it does, but in this case, after I used the balls to the end of their lifespan, I just went back to using a phosphate free detergent. Things were just noticably a bit cleaner after that, but nothing, and I mean nothing, will clean clothes that get worn on a workboat, even after a thousand washings. One simple idea for testing the disassociation idea would be to take a small neodymium magnet and put it in a container of water, like a small plastic bottle, and drilling a small hole in the lid. You could shake the bottle for a while with your thumb covering the hole, and put a flame over the hole immediately after releasing it. This could be very dangerous of course, if it worked, so you would want to be careful. Another idea for saving water, energy and soap while cleaning clothes that I have been thinking about would be to design an ultrasonic washing machine. I've got a few low-cost ideas for that, but nothing on the drawing board, yet. It would be interesting to see how clean clothes got with something like that. That would put even the Maytag Repairman out of business. ;) Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 14 15:06:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA14568; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:05:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:05:54 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <22.c7440e1.271a329a@aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 18:05:14 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Want to see if opinions differ on forces To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 119 Resent-Message-ID: <"7aEHN3.0.XZ3.2ZDwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17163 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 10/13/00 7:29:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, billb@eskimo.com writes: > > Try winding a shorted coil around the ENTIRE ferrite "U", not just in one > spot. If I understand it right, then the PM will repel the ferrite/copper > electromagnet if it approaches quickly, but attract if it approaches > slowly. > Hello All, This is an interesting problem. But I do not think the PM will ever repel the ferrite/copper wire (shorted, unshorted, or a loaded coil). The reason I say this is as the PM approaches the ferrite/copper the B field induces a voltage in the copper windings which causes a current which creates a flux opposing the increasing B field. But the resultant flux through the ferrite/copper will always be in the same direction as the B field from the PM. (The induced flux can never be a larger magnitude than the original flux.) So the ferrite/copper will always look like a magnet (maybe very small) of the same polarity as the PM, so the force will be attractive. As the PM is moved away the argument is essentially the same, assuming there is no current in the coil when you start to move the PM away. At least that is the way it looks to me -- anyone see problems with the logic? Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 14 15:25:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA21559; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:25:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:25:06 -0700 Message-ID: <39E8DCA9.92D603E4@layo.com> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 00:22:33 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=E9?=.Nefkens@eskimo.com, Organization: http://www.wisemansbrand.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: harti@harti.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, gn@wisemansbrand.com, "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Newman-L Mailing List References: <00a801c03174$57a56b80$4700fed4@adolf.schneider> <39E8673B.114F050@harti.com> <39E87106.1A05A14C@wisemansbrand.com> <39E88A8E.164E8C89@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JW4m-.0.aG5.2rDwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17164 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Neutrinolysis,also to split gasoline ! Hi As an inventor spending about the the same (see my site http://www.wisemansbrand.com) and from other experience, . . : the UK inventor Doctor Cornish vanished together with his family (see site http://www.layo.com) and his invention was not even o/u, just another hydrogene carrier but harmfull to the oil industry Before he 'left' his life was like hell (he told me). I can tell you: If they had to start a 10 million casualties war, they would not hesitate a minute. Mr Shad including everybody he cares for is absolutely nothing, . . just Nr# pain in the A wanting to save the planet which means less income. Mr Shad better proves that HE invented it at a notary office and next do instant WELL ORGANIZED multiple publishing as shareware asking 50$ per person using his stuff and he will have more $ then ever dreamed + PEACE . If not . . . they will not wait a week once they start believing what he states. Gerard France PS This has nothing to do with personal hope to acquire background info. I drive 4000 Km p/Yr these days. I would of course be happy to invest but with/in this kind of stuff there is no hope ! Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > Hi Gerard, > Shad says, > it even works better for gasoline > and kerosine, so he is also interested to cooperate > with the oil and car industry to develop better > and more efficient carburetors ! THEY WANT TO SELL BARRELS NOT SPARE the BARRELS. they are freightened to death for such stuff. Btw, I have here US Patent N° 7458412 dated 12/28/89 Inv. Mr Kane Robert ID if it is such a device or a kind of Grander device, then I have said nothing although it gives 8% reduction in oil consumption. > > This might lead to a car, that can go 100 kms with just one > liter of gasoline ! > :) > > Sorry, I don´t know, how it works yet, but I guess > it is pretty easy, if you know the right parts for the > resonator and the electrodes. > > Shad told me, he has invested about 300.000 US$ for > his research during the last years and he does not want to > give it away for free now... > > Also he is probably not going to patent it, > but just put it onto the market with a bigger company in > the background who will just produce it and sell it ! THEY WILL STEAL IT > > There are now many possibilities were this > invention could be used. It could enhance almost all parts > of our lives ! > > Regards, Stefan. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 14 16:38:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA05276; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 16:38:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 16:38:11 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.28.94.188] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: laundry balls... Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 16:37:39 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2000 23:37:40.0088 (UTC) FILETIME=[BDBEE780:01C03637] Resent-Message-ID: <"-05JP1.0.LI1.ZvEwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17165 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Michael... I have another one for you... My father-in-law worked as an appliance repair man for over 30 years(now retired)... He claims that we use way too much soap... try washing all your clothes with a table spoon or two instead of the cup that the soap box says to use... I/we have been doing this for many years... Works great and does far less damage (we water our yard with the resulting gray water)... Seems the soap company's are just out to sell more soap... :) This was also the conclusions of the consumer groups tests too... Timothy... Oh ya.. it works for liquid hand soap too... just a teaspoon of dish soap, to a quart of water, in a pump bottle, works great for normal hand washing... really dirty hand washing I use "fast orange" hand cleaner... works better than any soap... >From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: [FG]: Coriolis Force as Nature's Lorentz Force Law >Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 14:22:32 -0400 > >Tim writes: > >Not meant as a flame Michael, But I've read a lot that states that those > >close balls were just junk science... A rip off... The conclusion is that > >your close get just as clean with them as with just plane water... > > > >Timothy... > >Hi Tim, > >Yeah, I don't know enough about them to say with certainty if they were >any >better than plain water, or not. I did try them for a while, and they >seemed to perform some cleaning, although in general, things looked just a >tad grungier than normal. I was working on the Polar Bear in Seattle at >the >time, and so my clothes were constantly, completely soaked in diesel, old >motor oil, bilge and covered with ground-in rust every day. After washing, >it appeared to me that my clothes were cleaner with the balls than they >would have been without them, but I didn't do any real tests. Consumer >Reports Magazine might have done a write up on them, I would have to check. > >For a real, controlled test, you would need a microscope, and a standard >way >of applying dirt to samples of fabric. I just remember reading the blurb >on >the box about how they were supposed to work, and thought I'd give them a >try. I am pretty much in favor of trying things that reduce or eliminate >the detergent, just because of the environmental damage that it does, but >in >this case, after I used the balls to the end of their lifespan, I just went >back to using a phosphate free detergent. Things were just noticably a bit >cleaner after that, but nothing, and I mean nothing, will clean clothes >that >get worn on a workboat, even after a thousand washings. > >One simple idea for testing the disassociation idea would be to take a >small >neodymium magnet and put it in a container of water, like a small plastic >bottle, and drilling a small hole in the lid. You could shake the bottle >for a while with your thumb covering the hole, and put a flame over the >hole >immediately after releasing it. This could be very dangerous of course, if >it worked, so you would want to be careful. > >Another idea for saving water, energy and soap while cleaning clothes that >I >have been thinking about would be to design an ultrasonic washing machine. >I've got a few low-cost ideas for that, but nothing on the drawing board, >yet. It would be interesting to see how clean clothes got with something >like that. That would put even the Maytag Repairman out of business. ;) > >Knuke >Michael T. Huffman >Huffman Technology Company >1121 Dustin Drive >The Villages, Florida 32159 >(352)259-1276 >knuke@LCIA.COM >http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 14 18:08:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA27851; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 18:07:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 18:07:35 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <4e.c2b4c0b.271a5d32@aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:06:58 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_4e.c2b4c0b.271a5d32_boundary" X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"rO-nI3.0.yo6.NDGwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17166 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: We need to get to the bottom of this! --part1_4e.c2b4c0b.271a5d32_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all. The magnet approaching the ferrite/copper coil is a very basic operation that we in the overunity field must know the exact nature of. (only devices magnetic in nature) How can we achieve success if we don't have this fundamental knowledge. Is there anyone on the lists that is setup to test and report their findings on this process. I received 15 different opinions on this simple movement up of the magnet. I have all of my resources tied up in the "Magnetic Equilibrium" project I am working on, but will try to use it as a test bed for this also. It would be nice to have a second test to compare to. I had one comment that stated that they believed that the repulsion force could never exceed the magnet's force. I wonder, in a generator that uses permanent magnets the output of the generator can vastly exceed the energy of the magnets in the generator. Could this be true also of the system in question? I believe William Beaty's comments are the right answer, but a test needs to be done to verify it. Can anyone out there perform a test? Here is my original question. >Hello all, Over the years I have got many different opinions as to the forces that take place between the two parts shown in this drawing. I want to see what force will be experienced between the magnet and the ferrite when the magnet is moved straight up toward the ferrite. Also at different speeds, slow, medium, fast, etc. What force would act on a person's hand if they were holding the magnet and pushing it up toward the ferrite. I am only concerned with forces up to the contact point but not at actual contact. Will there be repulsion, attraction, neutral forces? If so, where and when in the travel? I have got different answers on the simple process for years and would like to see what I get now after a couple of years have gone by. It's almost if no one knows what forces are at work here during this short movement up of the magnet. Thanks, Butch LaFonte< Here are William Beaty's comments >Whoa, I was just analyzing EXACTLY that geometry two weeks ago as part of a student Maglev project I was giving help to! Very weird coincidence. I had just thrown a version of that device together and it behaved differently than I expected. I expected repulsion at high velocity, and attraction at low, but instead I got attraction always. The cause looked fairly obvious, so I stopped thinking about it. Here's my solution. If the copper was to cover the entire ferrite U-shape, then you'd see repulsion at high magnet speeds, but attraction at lower speeds. There would be repulsion at high speeds because the magnet induces a large current in the shorted copper loop, and this causes the copper and ferrite to act like a "mirror magnet" which repels the permanent magnet. Because the copper does not cover the whole ferrite "U", at high magnet speeds the "mirror magnet" still forms... but it's only as long as the copper region! It will try to repel its own ferrite "legs." The permanent magnet will polarize the "legs" of the ferrite "U" in the opposite direction than the copper does. That means that the large Bloch Wall where north meets south will be somewhere inside the legs of the Ferrite "U," and as long as the repulsion cannot burst the ferrite apart, it will create no noticable forces. And THAT means that if the permanent magnet approaches the ferrite in your diagram, the length of the flux lines associated with the PM will see less and less space and more and more percentage of ferrite in the magnetic loop, therefore the PM will be attracted. Only if the copper could force the "bloch wall" to form in the air between the two objects would there be repulsion. Another way to think about it: Replace the copper with a short rod of superconductor, and glue ferrite "legs" to it so it still resembles the diagram you've provided. In that case as the PM approaches, a region of repulsion will appear where the ferrite touches the superconductor. But since the ferrite is glued down, it cannot fly off. The PM will still be attracted to the ferrite "legs", even though there is hidden repulsion occuring between the superconductor rod and the ferrite. > I get now after a couple of years have gone by. It's almost if no one knows > what forces are at work here durning this short movement up of the magnet. Try winding a shorted coil around the ENTIRE ferrite "U", not just in one spot. If I understand it right, then the PM will repel the ferrite/copper electromagnet if it approaches quickly, but attract if it approaches slowly. An identical effect appears with Maglev vehicles using the InducTrack system. At low speeds of the train, the permanent magnets attract any iron cores in the track. But as the speed goes up, the shorted copper bands start producing more and more repulsion. At a certain speed, the repulsion dominates, and the train starts to fly. If the shorted bands were made from superconductor, then the speed threshold would be zero, and the maglev train would keep flying even if it came to a halt. PS, my version used an AC coil instead of a permanent magnet. That's like rotating the PM at high RPM. I put a bunch of thick copper rings on a laminated iron "U", but found that the darned thing always attracted. The attraction was less with the copper rings than without. I didn't try covering the entire "U" with copper rings though. I assumed that doing so would force the "legs" to polarize correctly, and produce the repulsion effect I wanted. PPS, another similar situation would be to take TWO ferrite "U" shapes, wind one AC coil in the middle of each, then apply power to form two AC electromagnets. Then hold them near each other (with the current phase chosen for repulsion.) If the current in both coils was the same value, then the electromagnets would repel no matter how close they came. But if one current was significantly higher, then as you forced them to approach, the "zero field" plane would move into the "legs" of one electromagnet. After that, the two electromagnets would attract. The legs of the low-current electromagnet would experience internal repulsion strain, even though the force between the two separate electromagnets was attractive. I think. If the cores were made from stacked ferrite disks, maybe you'd see the legs burst apart when the zero-field plane pushed into the ferrite. Cool! Each disk would sequentially leap over to the second electromagnet, leaving a gap at the location of the zero-field plane! If you turned the power supply for one electromagnet up and down, the ferrite disks should go "clackclackclack", and you'd see a "hole" moving along the stack of disks, and the two electromagnets would always repel! The ferrite would adjust its geometery to always produce overall repulsion. 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X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:22:01 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Frenette questions In-Reply-To: <9f.be9270c.2719eb64@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"0tt8p.0.lr3.kGHwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17167 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hmmmm I think we can get patent docs on line >number 4,143,639. A few other people have patented >variations of his design. One of these is 4,651,681 by Eugene W. Perkins. Do you have more on Rex Research? Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 14 23:14:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA08854; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 23:13:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 23:13:31 -0700 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 02:12:56 -0400 Message-Id: <200010150612.CAA08967@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: laundry balls... Resent-Message-ID: <"wCN3w.0.BA2.0iKwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17168 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tim writes: >Michael... I have another one for you... My father-in-law worked as an >appliance repair man for over 30 years(now retired)... He claims that we use >way too much soap... try washing all your clothes with a table spoon or two >instead of the cup that the soap box says to use... I/we have been doing >this for many years... Works great and does far less damage (we water our >yard with the resulting gray water)... Seems the soap company's are just out >to sell more soap... :) This was also the conclusions of the consumer groups >tests too... > >Timothy... As it happens, that is something else I've thought about too. I've read the same report in Consumer Reports some time ago, and do use less than the recommended amount for normal laundry. I've also seen some detergent that was reported to be organic, and it would seem to me that it would be a perfectly safe thing to water lawns with. In Florida, there was a huge housing boom of a bunch of "master planned communities" built just in the last 5 years, and somehow, these communities managed to exempt themselves from a lot of local taxes by contracting many of the services that were traditionally provided by local city and county governments. One of the things that got contracted to the local governments however, by necessity, was the water supply, and the local governments in every case, either intentionally or otherwise overlooked and underestimated the cost of supplying water for all of the golf courses that these communities have. As a result, the local taxpayers not living in these "planned communities" have had to bear the cost of upgrading the water systems, and they are naturally not happy about it. Watering lawns every day down here is a necessity if you want to have a lawn that isn't scorched, but the cost is pretty high. Watering them with grey water would be an excellent idea. Another idea that Jed Rothwell reported on the Vortex Group the other day was the fact that there are millions of homes in Japan now that heat their bath water with passive solar collectors. This is almost a freebie, and could easily be done in most of the Southern US. I have yet to see one place in Florida that utilizes solar to heat water. There are a lot of ways to reduce the pollution and energy expenditure that we could be doing, but it seems like an uphill task to make them happen on a large scale. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 15 01:20:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA32671; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 01:20:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 01:20:19 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.127] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: laundry balls... Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 01:19:47 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Oct 2000 08:19:47.0774 (UTC) FILETIME=[AE806DE0:01C03680] Resent-Message-ID: <"CTol82.0.L-7.3ZMwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17169 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Yes Mitch, I use only two table spoons of detergent to clean a family (large) size load of laundry... It does not matter how dirty they are... any more is just waste... And pollution... organic or not... I have an idea for a solar heater that I plan to build(as soon as my garage is finished)... I have read that salt is the best for retaining heat... my idea is to build a box about 5 inches tall X ~3 feet X 5 feet... Run a few pipes into it like a normal solar heater... But... Then take rock salt and dissolve in boiling water and fill the box... let sit, till the water is gone and repeat... once the box is solid with salt then paint the top black and seal with glass... I feel the salt should absorb heat all day giving me hot water the next morning for showers... By doing so I hope to have a simple tank less, on demand, solar water heating system... What do you think??? Timothy... >From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: [FG]: laundry balls... >Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 02:12:56 -0400 > >Tim writes: > >Michael... I have another one for you... My father-in-law worked as an > >appliance repair man for over 30 years(now retired)... He claims that we >use > >way too much soap... try washing all your clothes with a table spoon or >two > >instead of the cup that the soap box says to use... I/we have been doing > >this for many years... Works great and does far less damage (we water our > >yard with the resulting gray water)... Seems the soap company's are just >out > >to sell more soap... :) This was also the conclusions of the consumer >groups > >tests too... > > > >Timothy... > >As it happens, that is something else I've thought about too. I've read >the >same report in Consumer Reports some time ago, and do use less than the >recommended amount for normal laundry. I've also seen some detergent that >was reported to be organic, and it would seem to me that it would be a >perfectly safe thing to water lawns with. In Florida, there was a huge >housing boom of a bunch of "master planned communities" built just in the >last 5 years, and somehow, these communities managed to exempt themselves >from a lot of local taxes by contracting many of the services that were >traditionally provided by local city and county governments. > >One of the things that got contracted to the local governments however, by >necessity, was the water supply, and the local governments in every case, >either intentionally or otherwise overlooked and underestimated the cost of >supplying water for all of the golf courses that these communities have. >As >a result, the local taxpayers not living in these "planned communities" >have >had to bear the cost of upgrading the water systems, and they are naturally >not happy about it. Watering lawns every day down here is a necessity if >you want to have a lawn that isn't scorched, but the cost is pretty high. >Watering them with grey water would be an excellent idea. > >Another idea that Jed Rothwell reported on the Vortex Group the other day >was the fact that there are millions of homes in Japan now that heat their >bath water with passive solar collectors. This is almost a freebie, and >could easily be done in most of the Southern US. I have yet to see one >place in Florida that utilizes solar to heat water. > >There are a lot of ways to reduce the pollution and energy expenditure that >we could be doing, but it seems like an uphill task to make them happen on >a >large scale. > >Knuke > > > >Michael T. Huffman >Huffman Technology Company >1121 Dustin Drive >The Villages, Florida 32159 >(352)259-1276 >knuke@LCIA.COM >http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 15 01:29:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA02024; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 01:28:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 01:28:51 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.127] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Frenette questions Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 01:28:19 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Oct 2000 08:28:20.0184 (UTC) FILETIME=[DFEBFD80:01C03681] Resent-Message-ID: <"LShAR3.0.XV.2hMwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17170 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I am unable to get the patent documents online... but would love to see them can you please send them to me??? or post them somewhere??? Thank you, Timothy... >From: Charles Ford >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: [FG]: Frenette questions >Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:22:01 -0500 > >Hmmmm > >I think we can get patent docs on line > >>number 4,143,639. A few other people have patented >>variations of his design. One of these is 4,651,681 by Eugene W. Perkins. > > >Do you have more on Rex Research? > >Charlie Ford >cjford1@yahoo.com >cjford1@swbell.net > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 15 03:40:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA19146; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 03:39:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 03:39:51 -0700 From: DEADWATE@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 06:39:11 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: laundry balls... To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 107 Resent-Message-ID: <"7G1t2.0.3h4.sbOwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17171 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 10/15/2000 1:20:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time, flytch@hotmail.com writes: << By doing so I hope to have a simple tank less, on demand, solar water heating system... What do you think??? >> I think you had better come up with a way to keep that heat in all night unless you like cold showers. Mitch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 15 10:53:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA06567; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 10:53:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 10:53:08 -0700 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: <20.ca990fd.271b48ce@aol.com> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:52:14 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Frenette questions and Rex Research To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"jAvso2.0.Sc1.3yUwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17172 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com The last bit of information I have on Rex Research was that Rex was operating out of Nevada. He publishes compliations of articles on various alternative technologies which are not in common use. Some one on this list has put Rex's catalog on-line, but i don't remember the URL for it. His snail address is: Rex Research PO Box 19250 Jean, NV 89019 Copies of the patent can be found on-line at the addresses listed below. Also a search on HotBot turned up a few urls, but none of them contained anything other than basically what was in the patent. One of them claimed that they had attempted to build a heater, but hadn't done it properly, so it didn't work. That's all I know. http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US04499913__ http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US04143639__ ****** Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. ****** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 15 12:05:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA27983; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:04:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:04:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Want to see if opinions differ on forces In-Reply-To: <22.c7440e1.271a329a@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"xyIF52.0.2r6.C_Vwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17173 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 14 Oct 2000 Keasy@aol.com wrote: > This is an interesting problem. But I do not think the PM will ever > repel the ferrite/copper wire (shorted, unshorted, or a loaded coil). The > reason I say this is as the PM approaches the ferrite/copper the B field > induces a voltage in the copper windings which causes a current which > creates a flux opposing the increasing B field. But the resultant flux > through the ferrite/copper will always be in the same direction as the B > field from the PM. The flux from the induced current in the copper causes repulsion, same as with superconductors. THe repulsion ideally is just as strong as the repulsion from two U-shaped PMs with alike poles adjacent. If neodymium PMs were used, the repulsion could be enormous. If, as a separate phenomenon, the PMs also attract the iron, then that attraction would make the inductive repulsion less. Only if the iron-attraction was greater than the inductive repulsion would the attraction dominate. If you could INSTANTLY bring the PM up to the ferrite/copper assembly, then the repulsion effect would reach its ideal maximum, even though copper is not a perfect conductor. As the milliseconds pass, the current then decays from that maximum because of copper's resistance. On the other hand, if the PM was not brought near the ferrite instantly, then the repulsion would be dying out as the magnet approached, and it would never reach its ideal maximum. > (The induced flux can never be a larger magnitude than > the original flux.) Right, but I think the iron-attraction flux CAN be smaller... so at the beginning, net repulsion would occur. > As the PM is moved away the argument is essentially the same, assuming > there is no current in the coil when you start to move the PM away. Yeah, the induction would then attract, and so the copper rings would make it harder to pull the PM away unless you pulled slowly. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 15 12:55:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA11024; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:55:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:55:05 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20001015125110.2f071bd8@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:51:10 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Want to see if opinions differ on forces In-Reply-To: <22.c7440e1.271a329a@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"n3lqh1.0.5i2.PkWwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17174 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Ken, Bill, Butch and all, At 06:05 PM 10/14/00 EDT, you wrote: > This is an interesting problem. But I do not think the PM will ever >repel the ferrite/copper wire (shorted, unshorted, or a loaded coil). The >reason I say this is as the PM approaches the ferrite/copper the B field >induces a voltage in the copper windings which causes a current which >creates a flux opposing the increasing B field. But the resultant flux >through the ferrite/copper will always be in the same direction as the B >field from the PM. (The induced flux can never be a larger magnitude than >the original flux.) So the ferrite/copper will always look like a magnet >(maybe very small) of the same polarity as the PM, so the force will be >attractive. > At least that is the way it looks to me -- anyone see problems with the >logic? I first thought the force was always attractive, but have adjusted my opinion slightly, thanks to comments by Cyril Smith. An air core shorted coil has no attraction ferro. forces, and is repelled by a PM moving toward it. This repulsion is a function of the velocity (dB/dt), while the attraction to a ferro object is a function of position. So either one could be larger. Because of the feedback of the induced flux, however, the repulsive force can never result in a repulsion (moving away) or the induced force would now be an attraction. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 15 13:20:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA19845; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:20:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:20:24 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39E9BF26.F6846F4A@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 09:28:54 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: laundry balls... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"M1KHo2.0.-r4.86Xwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17175 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Timothy Flytch wrote: > > Yes Mitch, > I use only two table spoons of detergent to clean a family (large) size load > of laundry... > It does not matter how dirty they are... any more is just waste... > And pollution... organic or not... > > I have an idea for a solar heater that I plan to build(as soon as my garage > is finished)... I have read that salt is the best for retaining heat... my > idea is to build a box about 5 inches tall X ~3 feet X 5 feet... Run a few > pipes into it like a normal solar heater... But... Then take rock salt and > dissolve in boiling water and fill the box... let sit, till the water is > gone and repeat... once the box is solid with salt then paint the top black > and seal with glass... I feel the salt should absorb heat all day giving me > hot water the next morning for showers... By doing so I hope to have a > simple tank less, on demand, solar water heating system... > What do you think??? > > Timothy... > They mean MOLTEN salt, not salt solution... ;) There are plenty plans out there for solar water heaters. Why not look around first instead of reinventing the wheel? <:) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 15 15:38:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA22526; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 15:38:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 15:38:01 -0700 Message-ID: <003c01c036f7$fbdd9a00$0364c8c8@mindspring> From: "John Lighton" To: References: <200010150612.CAA08967@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: laundry balls... Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 15:33:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"qhUXh.0.sV5.97Zwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17176 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com there are millions of homes in Japan now that heat their bath water with passive solar collectors. This is almost a freebie, and could easily be done in most of the Southern US. True. I was really struck by the number of solar water heaters used in Crete when I stayed there for a while in early 1995. Virtually every house had a solar heating system and collector tank on its roof. Here in Las Vegas, with huge solar energy fluxes, such systems are a rarity. PV power is almost unheard of. Cheap grid power and hoofy public education are a scary combination. John PS Jean, HQ of Rex Research, is just down the road. FYI, Jean is basically a casino pair - Whiskey Pete's and Cactus Kate's, one on either side of the I-15 freeway. Prime Mojave Desert (creosote bushes, agave, Joshua trees) surrounds and overwhelms them. A Jean P.O. box is a vote in favor of privacy. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 15 17:26:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA16751; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:25:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:25:31 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.28.80.149] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: laundry balls... Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:24:57 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Oct 2000 00:24:58.0173 (UTC) FILETIME=[83CA0ED0:01C03707] Resent-Message-ID: <"y06sP1.0.e54.xhawv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17177 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > They mean MOLTEN salt, not salt solution... ;) > > There are plenty plans out there for solar water heaters. Why not look >around first instead of reinventing the wheel? <:) > No I mean salt solution as a method to fill a box with a solid block of salt CHEAPLY... I plan to fill the box with rock salt and then pore a strong salt solution over it and allow the water to evaporate off... then repeat as needed till the box is ~one block... I don't want to work with molten sodium (98C) The solar heater will not get this hot in operation... I want hot water not steam... My box idea is a blue foam box 4inch wall thickness... lined and covered with epoxy-glass... that way it is both structure and insulation... caped with double glaze glass... And partially shaded... Why reinvent the wheel??? Well... I would say you don't use solar, do you??? Luts just say... They have yet to prefect their wheel... I can, and have, done better... My house is partly solar at the moment and will be full solar in a few years... I will probably stay on the grid... But I love my $15-$35 utility bills :) My life seems to be reinventing the wheel... So??? Timothy... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 15 17:58:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA28499; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:58:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:58:12 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001015195902.00bcfed0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:00:53 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Frenette questions In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"W9LKl.0.8z6.YAbwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17178 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Go here.... http://164.195.100.11/netahtml/srchnum.htm And plug in the numbers At 01:28 AM 10/15/00 -0700, you wrote: >I am unable to get the patent documents online... but would love to see >them can you please send them to me??? or post them somewhere??? > >Thank you, >Timothy... > > >>From: Charles Ford >>Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Re: [FG]: Frenette questions >>Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:22:01 -0500 >> >>Hmmmm >> >>I think we can get patent docs on line >> >>>number 4,143,639. A few other people have patented >>>variations of his design. One of these is 4,651,681 by Eugene W. Perkins. >> >> >>Do you have more on Rex Research? >> >>Charlie Ford >>cjford1@yahoo.com >>cjford1@swbell.net >> >>_________________________________________________________ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 15 18:05:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA31367; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:05:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:05:10 -0700 Message-ID: <39EA53FA.5212F651@icx.net> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:03:55 -0400 From: Stephen Brummitt Organization: D E V X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: laundry balls... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xMg_43.0.0g7.5Hbwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17179 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tim, Sounds like a great idea to me. Would dyeing the salt black be advantageous? The coil that you have going through all that salt is going to protected from corrosion how? I heard from a friend, that the best means he has seen for making heat transfer pipes, is to chrome plate them; and then, paint them with high temperature black paint. Stephen Brummitt ___________________________________________________________ Timothy Flytch wrote: > > > > > They mean MOLTEN salt, not salt solution... ;) > > > > There are plenty plans out there for solar water heaters. Why not look > >around first instead of reinventing the wheel? <:) > > > > No I mean salt solution as a method to fill a box with a solid block of salt > CHEAPLY... I plan to fill the box with rock salt and then pore a strong > salt solution over it and allow the water to evaporate off... then repeat as > needed till the box is ~one block... I don't want to work with molten sodium > (98C) The solar heater will not get this hot in operation... I want hot > water not steam... > > My box idea is a blue foam box 4inch wall thickness... lined and covered > with epoxy-glass... that way it is both structure and insulation... caped > with double glaze glass... And partially shaded... > > Why reinvent the wheel??? Well... I would say you don't use solar, do you??? > Luts just say... They have yet to prefect their wheel... I can, and have, > done better... > > My house is partly solar at the moment and will be full solar in a few > years... I will probably stay on the grid... But I love my $15-$35 utility > bills :) > > My life seems to be reinventing the wheel... So??? > > Timothy... > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 15 19:18:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA23644; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:17:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:17:50 -0700 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:17:13 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Blinking Neons on Halloween To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"PoAy41.0.En5.DLcwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17180 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ever seen the movie "Looker"? In it, various characters use a stroboscopic weapon that causes people to freeze up and stand motionless for a couple of seconds or longer with no memory of what happened or what caused it. A similar device was used in the movie "Men in Black." I think that the military has even done some research in this area for use as a non-lethal weapon. Food for thought. Brian Drake (Bmd2323@aol.com) ****** Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. ****** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 15 19:43:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA01396; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:42:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:42:36 -0700 Message-ID: <002701c036da$0392d9e0$ace5b5d0@a9o0z0> From: "Alik S" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Blinking Neons on Halloween Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:59:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"mY_mb2.0.gL.Ricwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17181 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com A year or so ago there was a weird episode with a Japanese cartoon including a peculiar sequence of flashing lights/scenes making a very large number of people sick. On infowar.com there is a US reference to latest soviet work on semi-psychotronic weapons designed to short-circuit human nervous system in any number of ways. Alik S -----Original Message----- From: Bmd2323@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Monday, October 16, 2000 2:17 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Blinking Neons on Halloween >Ever seen the movie "Looker"? In it, various characters use a stroboscopic >weapon that causes people to freeze up and stand motionless for a couple of >seconds or longer with no memory of what happened or what caused it. A >similar device was used in the movie "Men in Black." I think that the >military has even done some research in this area for use as a non-lethal >weapon. Food for thought. >Brian Drake >(Bmd2323@aol.com) > >****** Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste >good with ketchup. ****** > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 15 21:06:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA28068; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:06:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:06:04 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39EA2C4B.66149A9D@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:14:35 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: laundry balls... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lArh01.0.Ms6.hwdwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17182 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Timothy Flytch wrote: > > > > > They mean MOLTEN salt, not salt solution... ;) > > > > There are plenty plans out there for solar water heaters. Why not look > >around first instead of reinventing the wheel? <:) > > > > No I mean salt solution as a method to fill a box with a solid block of salt > CHEAPLY... I plan to fill the box with rock salt and then pore a strong > salt solution over it and allow the water to evaporate off... then repeat as > needed till the box is ~one block... I don't want to work with molten sodium > (98C) The solar heater will not get this hot in operation... I want hot > water not steam... Uhm, that's not what they mean by "Salt Retains Heat Well" In BIG solar generators, they use focused sunlight to melt salt, and molten salt has such a HIGH heat capacity, they use that then to vaporize water in a heat exchanger, and use that steam to power a turbine. Now nuclear reactors use molten sodium melt to transfer heat from the reactor core to the heat exchanger, but molten salt is a bit nicer, and cheaper to handle... Real cool, on TV, they dipped into the molten tank with a ladel, and poured it into a mold. In a few minutes, they had a solid block of salt... ;) Concrete as a heat mass should work just fine. Or just paint the box black, and paint the pipes in the box black too. Then have that water circulate to a insulated hot water tank, and use a heat exchanger to heat the water in the tank. If you REALLY want a block of salt, just buy them at animal feed stores. But, I mean, dude, read a book on it! There are plans for a LOT of solar heating systems. And I doubt "Salt Holds Heat Well" refers to a block of salt, it refers to the molten salt used in GIANT solar generators. Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 15 21:11:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA29871; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:11:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:11:00 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39EA2D8F.A09F8A14@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:19:59 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Blinking Neons on Halloween References: <002701c036da$0392d9e0$ace5b5d0@a9o0z0> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KE5JS.0.eI7.K_dwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17183 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Alik S wrote: > > A year or so ago there was a weird episode with a Japanese cartoon including > a peculiar sequence of flashing lights/scenes making a very large number of > people sick. On infowar.com there is a US reference to latest soviet work on > semi-psychotronic weapons designed to short-circuit human nervous system in > any number of ways. > It's common knowledge. A few years ago, the US military and Police were looking a device utilizing a special sound frequencies, and a blinking light that would induce seizures in people as a method of crowd control for riots in place of rubber bullets, etc( even people who are not epileptic ). You'd just wear earplugs, and walk out, and arrest the twitching people. Or turn it off, and the people would probably disperse from the lingering nausea and disorientation. The problem was that it induced Grand Mal seizures in 10-15% of people, and well, if you're epileptic, watch out! So research was not pursued further. There is also a device used in diagnosing migraines, it's a pattern of alternating gray and white lines, of a set width, and a certain color of grey. In people who suffer migraines, this pattern induces a migraine in about 1-2 minutes. It's used as a way to confirm diagnosises and check if migraine meds are working... Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 15 21:37:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA05938; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:37:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:37:12 -0700 Message-ID: <00ea01c0372a$77653750$0100a8c0@jet> From: "Davis Ray Sickmon, Jr" To: References: <39EA2C4B.66149A9D@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: laundry balls... Look more closely before discounting Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 23:35:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Resent-Message-ID: <"UzbuG1.0.cS1.tNewv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17184 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ok, I gotta get outta lurking mode for a moment, and speak up. Before you dismiss Timothy's idea completely, or attribute it to things like molten salts - it's a valid concept, and has already been used before. Problem is - I can't find a link to it right now. Popular Science carried a short blurb on it sometime back, but, I can't find it on their indexes online (and don't have the time to sort through all the articles I have here at the house at the moment). Here's the deal - the concept was being used as a block heater of sorts for diesel engines. The tank below the (oil pan?) held a combination of water and a particular salt (which is one of the keys to this - I don't remember WHAT salt it held!). As the water evaporated, only the salt was left. Before you started up the rig in the morning after a cold night, you hit the button, and the water that had evaporated before is dumped onto the salt, and the salt releases a great deal of heat, heating the block and starting the rig becomes easier to start on a cold morning. It was a complete working system - but, I don't know that it made it to production stage. Under this concept, yeah, it could be adapted to being a heat storage system for a water heater, etc. However, I don't know what the particular salt that was used was. I know it wasn't table salt. If someone has the time to do the research, the information is out there. Would it work with normal rock salt? I doubt it - but, IIRC, whatever they used was still extremely cheap to produce. Back to lurking... (PS: Does someone know a source for a semi-powerful infrared laser? Need to get access to one to do some experimentation.) Davis Ray Sickmon, Jr Author, Boulder Panic!, Boulder Panic! 2 President, MidnightRyder.Com http://www.midnightryder.com > Timothy Flytch wrote: > > > > > > > > They mean MOLTEN salt, not salt solution... ;) > > > > > > There are plenty plans out there for solar water heaters. Why not look > > >around first instead of reinventing the wheel? <:) > > > > > > > No I mean salt solution as a method to fill a box with a solid block of salt > > CHEAPLY... I plan to fill the box with rock salt and then pore a strong > > salt solution over it and allow the water to evaporate off... then repeat as > > needed till the box is ~one block... I don't want to work with molten sodium > > (98C) The solar heater will not get this hot in operation... I want hot > > water not steam... > > Uhm, that's not what they mean by "Salt Retains Heat Well" > > In BIG solar generators, they use focused sunlight to melt salt, and > molten salt has such a HIGH heat capacity, they use that then to > vaporize water in a heat exchanger, and use that steam to power a > turbine. > > Now nuclear reactors use molten sodium melt to transfer heat from the > reactor core to the heat exchanger, but molten salt is a bit nicer, and > cheaper to handle... > > Real cool, on TV, they dipped into the molten tank with a ladel, and > poured it into a mold. In a few minutes, they had a solid block of > salt... ;) > > Concrete as a heat mass should work just fine. Or just paint the box > black, and paint the pipes in the box black too. Then have that water > circulate to a insulated hot water tank, and use a heat exchanger to From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 16 03:07:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA27178; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 03:06:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 03:06:44 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:06:00 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [FG]: ununpentium element? X-Sender-Ip: 143.210.28.117 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UCFpQ3.0.Ze6.pCjwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17185 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com -- On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:47:10 edward webber wrote: >i had been reading on the internet about element-115 or ununpentium and i was curious if this element is for real > Nah, I reckon this element is BS. There are better ways of creating antigravity without the lethal radiation that so-called element-115 creates. Ignore it, it's probably BS from Bob Lazar. Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 16 03:59:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA14037; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 03:58:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 03:58:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001b01c0375f$bf132e60$263dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: , References: Subject: Re: [FG]: ununpentium element? Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 06:56:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"sglGL3.0.CR3.6zjwv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17186 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gentlemen; I agree with the Lazar BS part. However, there is a real race to synthesize element 115 going at the large accelerator labs. The reason is that by theory, element 115 should be the start of whats called the super-heavy stable element range. In other words, the synthetic elements found from the high 90s (atomic number) up through 113 are extremely unstable, only lasting seconds or so before decaying back through the sequence to a lower number. However, the prediction is that 115 SHOULD be a useful stable metal - something that could at least stick around long enough to be drilled, machined, and weighed! It may also have some very strange, very cool properties due to it's large nuclear mass, of course. Whether it produces a projected gravity force like Mr. Lazar says is very speculative, though. I think the labs have made 114 recently, so 115 should be the next breakthrough. Chemically, it should have some of the properties of Bismuth. NR > > On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:47:10 edward webber wrote: > >i had been reading on the internet about element-115 or ununpentium and i was curious if this element is for real > > > > Nah, I reckon this element is BS. There are better ways of creating antigravity without the lethal radiation that so-called element-115 creates. Ignore it, it's probably BS from Bob Lazar. > > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 16 06:03:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA06909; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 06:02:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 06:02:35 -0700 Message-ID: <003901c0370d$8ccb2540$8c1b16cb@rogerdw> From: "Roger Weichert" To: References: <39EA2C4B.66149A9D@worldnet.att.net> <00ea01c0372a$77653750$0100a8c0@jet> Subject: Re: [FG]: laundry balls... Look more closely before discounting Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:38:08 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"OUXW03.0.rh1.gnlwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17187 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Timothy and all, TEAP in Perth, Western Australia have a system that uses inorganic hydrated salt in capsules to store heat. One type, TH29 melts at 29 degrees C. Check out their web site for more details http://www.teappcm.com/ plus http://www.teappcm.com/th29.html These guys use solar collectors of plastic pipe cast into slabs of concrete, then covered in something to enhance the heat gathering effect. I know that sounds a bit like some of Dennis Lee's work, but I think it's worth checking out. Regards Roger. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 16 09:54:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA02213; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:48:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:48:46 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:48:02 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Sender-Ip: 143.210.81.61 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZUsGw3.0.2Y.h5pwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17188 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: What became of BAP? Afternoon all, Does anyone know what happened to Bruce A. Perreault? Did he unsubscribe himself, get removed, get bored?.........Sorry if this is really dumb. James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 16 10:44:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA24426; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:37:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:37:57 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.167] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: laundry balls... Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:37:25 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Oct 2000 17:37:25.0334 (UTC) FILETIME=[BF2CAF60:01C03797] Resent-Message-ID: <"gOMJz1.0.Zz5.rppwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17189 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Daniel, I have read many books on it... One of the many books, I read from the library, showed a attached green house type of solar house heater... He used large gravel bens as his heat storage... He then use a similar container for his rock salt (used for soft water system) and clamed it keeps heat better... He was in the process of replacing all his gravel with rock salt... The concrete block would probably work but would coast about the same as rock salt... rock salt, used for water softeners, is cheep here... A 25Lb of concrete is $2.50, rock salt is $3.59 for 50Lb last time I checked... And if it has better heat storage properties then why not take advantage of it??? Or have I read too many books from crack pots... It does not take brains to write a book... I may end up using concrete...??? But some one spending hundreds to replace gravel with rock salt??? That sounds like it is worth at least investigating??? Or was he just another crack pot??? Timothy... >From: Daniel >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: [FG]: laundry balls... >Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:14:35 -0500 > >Timothy Flytch wrote: > > > > > > > > They mean MOLTEN salt, not salt solution... ;) > > > > > > There are plenty plans out there for solar water heaters. Why >not look > > >around first instead of reinventing the wheel? <:) > > > > > > > No I mean salt solution as a method to fill a box with a solid block of >salt > > CHEAPLY... I plan to fill the box with rock salt and then pore a strong > > salt solution over it and allow the water to evaporate off... then >repeat as > > needed till the box is ~one block... I don't want to work with molten >sodium > > (98C) The solar heater will not get this hot in operation... I want hot > > water not steam... > > Uhm, that's not what they mean by "Salt Retains Heat Well" > > In BIG solar generators, they use focused sunlight to melt salt, and >molten salt has such a HIGH heat capacity, they use that then to >vaporize water in a heat exchanger, and use that steam to power a >turbine. > > Now nuclear reactors use molten sodium melt to transfer heat from the >reactor core to the heat exchanger, but molten salt is a bit nicer, and >cheaper to handle... > > Real cool, on TV, they dipped into the molten tank with a ladel, and >poured it into a mold. In a few minutes, they had a solid block of >salt... ;) > > Concrete as a heat mass should work just fine. Or just paint the box >black, and paint the pipes in the box black too. Then have that water >circulate to a insulated hot water tank, and use a heat exchanger to >heat the water in the tank. > > If you REALLY want a block of salt, just buy them at animal feed >stores. > > But, I mean, dude, read a book on it! There are plans for a LOT of >solar heating systems. > > And I doubt "Salt Holds Heat Well" refers to a block of salt, it refers >to the molten salt used in GIANT solar generators. > > Daniel Joyce > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 16 13:02:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA20947; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:01:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:01:52 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <28.bff792d.271cb885@aol.com> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:01:09 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Want to see if opinions differ on forces To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 119 Resent-Message-ID: <"SdBVu1.0.C75.lwrwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17190 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Dave, Bill, Butch, and all, I agree with your comments that the induced current in the copper causes repulsion, which can, under some conditions, be greater than the attraction of the PM to the ferrite. I was assuming for practical cases that effect would be negligible, which may not always be true. Ken > > The flux from the induced current in the copper causes repulsion, same as > with superconductors. THe repulsion ideally is just as strong as the > repulsion from two U-shaped PMs with alike poles adjacent. If neodymium > PMs were used, the repulsion could be enormous. > > If, as a separate phenomenon, the PMs also attract the iron, then that > attraction would make the inductive repulsion less. Only if the > iron-attraction was greater than the inductive repulsion would the > attraction dominate. > > If you could INSTANTLY bring the PM up to the ferrite/copper assembly, > then the repulsion effect would reach its ideal maximum, even though > copper is not a perfect conductor. As the milliseconds pass, the current > then decays from that maximum because of copper's resistance. On the > other hand, if the PM was not brought near the ferrite instantly, then the > repulsion would be dying out as the magnet approached, and it would never > reach its ideal maximum. > > > > > (The induced flux can never be a larger magnitude than > > the original flux.) > > Right, but I think the iron-attraction flux CAN be smaller... so at the > beginning, net repulsion would occur. > > > As the PM is moved away the argument is essentially the same, > assuming > > there is no current in the coil when you start to move the PM away. > > Yeah, the induction would then attract, and so the copper rings would make > it harder to pull the PM away unless you pulled slowly. > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 16 17:42:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA02814; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:36:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:36:54 -0700 Message-ID: <39EB9EA7.6AC16F70@enter.net> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:34:47 -0400 From: David Rosignoli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: finalheaven@angelfire.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Ice Capacitor question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EClmp.0.th.byvwv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17191 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > >Thanks, > >Steve > > > >PS. I have 19 layers so far on the electric rocket/gravity > >capacitor - little by little it rises. Does this mean he was able to get some lift from his electric rocket? > > Hope it works for you - it'd thrash the pants off the miserable few grams of thrust normally exhibited by electrogravitic devices (though it's probably not strictly EG) > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 17 04:37:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA04666; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 04:37:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 04:37:10 -0700 From: stevend@entrenet.com Message-ID: <20001017114158.8489.qmail@entrenet.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Ice Capacitor question To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 07:41:58 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <39EB9EA7.6AC16F70@enter.net> from "David Rosignoli" at Oct 16, 2000 08:34:47 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"szIc22.0.l81.cd3xv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17192 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > >Thanks, > > >Steve > > > > > >PS. I have 19 layers so far on the electric rocket/gravity > > >capacitor - little by little it rises. > > Does this mean he was able to get some lift from his electric rocket? I wish! Nope, I was refering to how much work you have to do just to see the layers make for little bit higher stack. I'm currently at 25 layers and only 3/16" height for all the layers. At 34 minutes to add one complete layer, after an hour I observe a rise of stack height of .015", which is to say I don't notice any difference for my hour's work. Bu while I'm here ... I'm planning on testing using one car battery. I won't be in the same room as either the electric rocket or the battery when I test so I'll be turning it on remotely and observing it via a mirror and plexiglass arrangement - in case it explodes. What kind of wires should I use to attach to the device itself? I'd prefer as light and flexible as possible, but given that you usually use heavy booster cables when working with car batteries, that may not be an option. > > Hope it works for you - it'd thrash the pants off the miserable > > few grams of thrust normally exhibited by electrogravitic devices > > (though it's probably not strictly EG) ------------------------------------------------------------- Steven Dufresne stevend@entrenet.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 17 05:05:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA13143; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 05:05:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 05:05:34 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:04:53 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Sender-Ip: 143.210.81.65 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"t2PNG2.0.CD3.E24xv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17193 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Grav-Cap Explosion! Hi All, I just remembered that some big capacitors come with explosion shields - very dangerous! I wondered, is the explosion caused by electrical resistance causing heat and expanding the cap under pressure, explosion of dielectric compounds, or what is it? The Grav Cap is a similar beast to a Tesla tank cap, and I don't fancy a 1-foot capacitor blowing up within 100 yards of me, or setting my modest student housing on fire. Any help? Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 17 05:14:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA15998; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 05:13:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 05:13:42 -0700 From: "David Rosignoli" Sender: drdaveor@enter.net Reply-to: drdaveor@enter.net To: stevend@entrenet.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:13:35 +400 Subject: Re: [FG]: Ice Capacitor question X-Mailer: DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway 2.1t, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <39ec426f.47c8.0@enter.net> X-User-Info: 192.91.146.35 Resent-Message-ID: <"HkpOx1.0.nv3.s94xv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17194 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > >Bu while I'm here ... I'm planning on testing using one car battery. >I won't be in the same room as either the electric rocket or the >battery when I test so I'll be turning it on remotely and observing >it via a mirror and plexiglass arrangement - in case it explodes. >What kind of wires should I use to attach to the device itself? > >I'd prefer as light and flexible as possible, but given that you >usually use heavy booster cables when working with car batteries, >that may not be an option. Try using some really thin and flexible wires. Something like #26+ AWG magnet wire would be good. The heavy booster cables have a lot of copper to increase their conductivity, so as to get lots of current. (V=IR :-)) You don't want or need a lot of current here. (Well, I'm assuming this is true.) Actually, an RC time constant is set up with the wires and the capacitor. If you want to make sure that no huge current surges are setup, then add a 100 Ohm resistor rated for 1W in series with the grav-cap. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 17 05:17:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA17589; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 05:16:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 05:16:37 -0700 From: "David Rosignoli" Sender: drdaveor@enter.net Reply-to: drdaveor@enter.net To: "James Owen Batchelor" , freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:16:34 +400 Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-Cap Explosion! X-Mailer: DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway 2.1t, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <39ec4322.4b83.0@enter.net> X-User-Info: 192.91.146.35 Resent-Message-ID: <"qqRKs2.0.kI4.bC4xv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17195 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Hi All, > >I just remembered that some big capacitors come with explosion shields - very dangerous! I wondered, is the explosion caused by electrical resistance causing heat and expanding the cap under pressure, explosion of dielectric compounds, or what is it? Hmmm. Maybe from moisture trapped inside the dielectric that turns to steam and explodes the capacitor when a short occurs. I once had a Tesla Coil with a ceramic disk capacitor that blew up. One side of the capacitor was epoxed to a wood board, the other went flying off. It was a clean break. >The Grav Cap is a similar beast to a Tesla tank cap, and I don't fancy a 1-foot capacitor blowing up within 100 yards of me, or setting my modest student housing on fire. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 17 12:52:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA02959; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:51:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:51:50 -0700 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:51:43 -0400 Message-Id: <200010171951.PAB12684@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Resent-Message-ID: <"Qkw_H2.0.4k.MtAxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17196 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: ESL's Some months back, we were discussing some plasma devices, and the subject of electrets came up. For many of you, this subject was old hat, but for me, it was new. I had heard of electrets, of course, but I didn't really know how to make them. At the time, I had an URL for a pretty terrible description on how to make them, but it was a stoneage method involving a charcoal bricquet, as I recall. I just ran across a really good source of info for the do-it-yourself types that describes making Electrostatic Loudspeakers. Many of the concepts involved are similar to what Roth, and Jean-Louis have been working on, so this is useful stuff in more ways than one. This actually qualifies as a mini-goldmine, as it has all the circuit diagrams for the amplifiers, drivers, cross-overs, etc., many well written articles on the theory of operation, and some very good design and construction tips from real experts. There are also many different approaches to both the electronics designs, and the speaker designs, so you can tailor things to your own needs and what you have available. These things are not trivial projects, nor are they as cheap as I would like them to be, but for what you get in terms of quality and novelty, they are pretty darn cheap. They are well within the skill and price range of many of you builders on this group. The URL below is for a page that has some articles on it on this subject about midway down the page. If you follow the link back to the homepage, and scroll down past the enormous number of ads, there is another complete section devoted entirely to ESL's. http://members.fortunecity.com/ciuffoli2/ I just finished reading the article entitled Compact Integrated Electrostatic/Transmission Line - part 1 and 2 from Speaker Builder 1/1990, which is about 2/3 of the way down the above mentioned page, and it was an excellent introduction tutorial as well as a very complete set of instructions for building. The guy that does the website is Italian, and he has some of the stuff available in Japanese. Enjoy! Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 17 19:38:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA20489; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 19:34:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 19:34:18 -0700 Message-ID: <20001018023343.20426.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 19:33:43 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"121jv3.0.n_4.gmGxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17197 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: BRS adaptation to 3 Phase Confirmed. Tests made today confirm that 3 delta series resonances circumvented into a trisectional short, in turn topologically or schematically changes the actions of those currents to act as three parallel resonances, with the middle paths showing the square root of 3 greater amperage. HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 17 20:04:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA00998; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:03:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:03:20 -0700 Message-ID: <39ED1FA0.69CF0B82@harti.com> Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 04:57:20 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, harvey norris Subject: Re: [FG]: BRS adaptation to 3 Phase Confirmed. References: <20001018023343.20426.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"744Gl3.0.RF.tBHxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17198 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ???? Can you please speak in plain english please ? What has happened in what circuit where which when ? Please draw a circuit diagram and give us real measurement results, please Mr. Tesla !:) harvey norris schrieb: > > Tests made today confirm that 3 delta series > resonances > circumvented into a trisectional short, in turn > topologically or schematically changes the actions of > those currents to act as three parallel resonances, > with the middle paths showing the square root of 3 > greater amperage. HDN > > ===== > Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. > http://im.yahoo.com/ -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 17 20:28:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA09526; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:27:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:27:36 -0700 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: <9a.aff3095.271e7283@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:26:59 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"jSLvo3.0.hK2.eYHxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17199 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater Well, guys, it looks its a bust. I hacked out a rough prototype and tested it tonight with no results. I'm going to make a few modifications to the prototype to bring it closer in line with the version described in the patent, but I'm not overly optimistic. I can provide more information for anyone interested. Brian Drake (Bmd2323@aol.com) ****** Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. ****** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 17 22:30:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA14301; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:30:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:30:08 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01c03883$c32dbe00$56e5b5d0@a9o0z0> From: "Alik S" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:46:51 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"TZm6Y3.0.MV3.VLJxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17200 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Is your spacing between the rotor and the outside can close to original value whatever it was ? Alik S. -----Original Message----- From: Bmd2323@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 3:28 AM Subject: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater >Well, guys, it looks its a bust. I hacked out a rough prototype and tested >it tonight with no results. I'm going to make a few modifications to the >prototype to bring it closer in line with the version described in the >patent, but I'm not overly optimistic. I can provide more information for >anyone interested. >Brian Drake >(Bmd2323@aol.com) > >****** Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste >good with ketchup. ****** > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 17 23:01:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA22977; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:01:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:01:19 -0700 Message-ID: <006f01c03888$1e1b7ec0$56e5b5d0@a9o0z0> From: "Alik S" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Neutrinolysis,also to split gasoline ! Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:18:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"MnwrD.0.wc5.koJxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17201 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Years ago I met "Dr." Corniche in Vancouver BC (he needed a PWM motor speed controller for turning the drum and Al wire spool). At that time he was from South Africa not UK and his doctorate turned out rather fictional. If he vanshed, its more likely because he is hiding from less than happy investors of First-Plasmic-Corporaion. They rented the most expensive office space in town (harbor view and all the ammenities) and bought a truckload of networked PCs (in 1986/7) which must of cost a small fortune. I got paid on time, I am smiling .... Alik S. -----Original Message----- From: Gé.Nefkens@eskimo.com ; layo@layo.com To: harti@harti.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; gn@wisemansbrand.com ; jlnlabs@egroups.com ; ou-builders@egroups.com ; Newman-L Mailing List Date: Saturday, October 14, 2000 10:25 PM Subject: [FG]: Re: Neutrinolysis,also to split gasoline ! >Hi > >As an inventor spending about the the same >(see my site http://www.wisemansbrand.com) >and from other experience, . . : >the UK inventor Doctor Cornish >vanished together with his >family (see site http://www.layo.com) >and his invention was not even o/u, just >another hydrogene carrier but harmfull to >the oil industry >Before he 'left' >his life was like hell (he told me). > >I can tell you: >If they had to start a 10 million casualties >war, they would not hesitate a minute. >Mr Shad including everybody he cares for >is absolutely nothing, . . just Nr# pain in the A >wanting to save the planet which means >less income. > >Mr Shad better proves that HE invented it >at a notary office and next do instant WELL ORGANIZED >multiple publishing as shareware asking >50$ per person using his stuff >and he will have more $ then ever dreamed + PEACE . > >If not . . . they will not wait a week once >they start believing what he states. > >Gerard >France >PS >This has nothing >to do with personal >hope to acquire >background info. >I drive 4000 Km p/Yr these days. > >I would of course be >happy to invest but >with/in this kind of stuff >there is no hope ! > > > >Stefan Hartmann wrote: >> >> >> Hi Gerard, >> Shad says, >> it even works better for gasoline >> and kerosine, so he is also interested to cooperate >> with the oil and car industry to develop better >> and more efficient carburetors ! > >THEY WANT TO SELL BARRELS >NOT SPARE the BARRELS. >they are freightened to death >for such stuff. > >Btw, I have here >US Patent N° 7458412 >dated 12/28/89 >Inv. Mr Kane Robert ID > >if it is such a device >or a kind of Grander device, >then I have said nothing >although it gives 8% reduction >in oil consumption. > >> >> This might lead to a car, that can go 100 kms with just one >> liter of gasoline ! >> :) >> >> Sorry, I don´t know, how it works yet, but I guess >> it is pretty easy, if you know the right parts for the >> resonator and the electrodes. >> >> Shad told me, he has invested about 300.000 US$ for >> his research during the last years and he does not want to >> give it away for free now... >> >> Also he is probably not going to patent it, >> but just put it onto the market with a bigger company in >> the background who will just produce it and sell it ! > >THEY WILL STEAL IT > >> >> There are now many possibilities were this >> invention could be used. It could enhance almost all parts >> of our lives ! >> >> Regards, Stefan. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 18 02:44:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA03104; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:43:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:43:39 -0700 Message-ID: <005201c038e7$dce57540$03ff08d0@default> From: "Larry Canada" To: References: <9d.b9a9289.270ecd27@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.20001008220257.1ccf00f4@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: (IMPORTANT) The Motionless Electromagnetic Generator from Tom Bearden Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:43:24 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"A7xbc2.0.Km.A3Nxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17202 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thanks for the help Dave. The explanation was just what I needed. Larry From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 18 02:48:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA05223; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:48:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:48:33 -0700 Message-ID: <005d01c038e8$8c91afe0$03ff08d0@default> From: "Larry Canada" To: "freenrg-l" Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:48:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005A_01C038B6.4181C1C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"PHE3P3.0.SH1.n7Nxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17203 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: basic testing This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C038B6.4181C1C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I need help with the basics. I want to build small, hand wound coils = and then test their output. I need to be able to change the input = voltage and frequency and be able to measure the output in some = verifiable way. I want to keep it simple. Any suggestions? Larry ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C038B6.4181C1C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I need help with the basics.  I want to build = small, hand=20 wound coils and then test their output.  I need to be able to = change the=20 input voltage and frequency and be able to measure the output in some = verifiable=20 way.  I want to keep it simple.  Any suggestions?
Larry
------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C038B6.4181C1C0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 18 06:47:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA31823; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 06:46:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 06:46:19 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001018083922.0094fde0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:46:24 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: basic testing In-Reply-To: <005d01c038e8$8c91afe0$03ff08d0@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"Vy8U1.0.7n7.hcQxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17204 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 03:48 AM 10/18/00 -0600, you wrote: >I need help with the basics. I want to build small, hand wound coils and >then test their output. I need to be able to change the input voltage and >frequency and be able to measure the output in some verifiable way. I >want to keep it simple. Any suggestions? >Larry A signal generator (sine wave) and an AC meter. Honest... The simplest is the best here. Be sure that your meter is able to cope with the frequency that you are using. If you intend to venture into Radio Frequency, you will likely need help (find one of the HAM operators in your aria). _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 18 15:52:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA02947; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:51:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:51:48 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:51:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup X-Sender: w9sz@bluestem To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"IUGA32.0.uj.3cYxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17205 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Computer virus Hi, Are there any computer virus gurus on this list? Does anybody know one? Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 18 17:15:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA02485; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:13:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:13:59 -0700 Message-ID: <33149158.971914405477.JavaMail.imail@batty.excite.com> Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:13:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Reply-To: To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Computer virus Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 208.193.114.50 Resent-Message-ID: <"UGqxj1.0.ic.6pZxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17206 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com It all depends on the data you're looking for. I have knowledge in this field, but I'm unwilling to create a new virus. If you want info on a virus, or it's symptoms, check out www.cai.com. They've got all kinds of info, and an excellent, free, antivirus app. -Sean On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:51:42 -0500 (CDT), freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: | | Hi, | | Are there any computer virus gurus on this list? Does anybody know one? | | Zack | | | | _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 18 17:19:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA05198; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:19:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:19:27 -0700 Message-ID: <20001019001854.19469.qmail@web4405.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:18:54 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Re: [FG]: BRS adaptation to 3 Phase Confirmed. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"vljss.0.7H1.FuZxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17207 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- Stefan Hartmann wrote: > ???? > Can you please speak in plain english please ? > What has happened in what circuit where which when ? > Please draw a circuit diagram and give us > real measurement results, please Mr. Tesla !:) > > > harvey norris schrieb: > > > > Tests made today confirm that 3 delta series > > resonances > > circumvented into a trisectional short, in turn > > topologically or schematically changes the actions > of > > those currents to act as three parallel > resonances, > > with the middle paths showing the square root of 3 > > greater amperage. HDN This 3 phase AC converted automobile alternator has a field of 9.8 mH and 9.2 ohms. I used a 120 volt variac sent to a reversed 4/1 transformer to regulate the field, after rectification by diodes and 15 uf cap filter to provide DC. At 70 volts input, about 14 volts went to the field. This was used for the operating medium on tests. This produced 19 volts on the output stator coils ~@200 hz. The single phase motor supplied 1725 rpm, turning an equal size pulley on the alternator, which additionally had 7 pole faces, or magnetic polarities from the DC field: altogether producing 1725*7/60~=200 HZ. Three 5000 ft windings of 14 gauge wire containing 12 ohms, each about .15 Henry then used 4 uf capacitors to resonate at 200 Hz, as a preliminary mathematical capacitive estimate without actually noting the amperages first in inductive measurement of reactance, and tuning by that figure for the best capacitive value to be used. The coils are arranged in two columns of 15, in 3 sets of 10, with the folded set not deviating much from the others inductance wise. This fine tuning has not yet been attempted, as it may or may not be necessary, but it would seem so. Only one phase was measured across the cap for 108 volts. The conduction was about 1.15 Amp. This gives a voltage rise of only 108/19=5.5 The predicted voltage rise should be around 15. Measuring the voltage across two midpoints showed 167 volts, in agreement with sq rt of 3 times the outside value. In a 180 phasing found in the BRS, this value is twice the original, but here we are only dealing with two phases 120 degrees apart, and so the respective value of 120 degree opposite phasings is the sin(60 degees) or .86 less on each opposite polarity side, yeilding only 1.73 as potential difference; less than the value formerly obtained as 2, or twice the amperage across the shorted midpoint path, then exists in the actual tank circuit, or twice the resonant rise of voltage measured between open circuit 180 phased series resonances. Now the trisectional short without an arc gap(An arc gap would never work in these circumstances since the internal voltages are no where near the several thousands of volts necessary for that high frequency application) This schematic is found at http://www.escribe.com/science/freenrg/m9505.html There was only 10.3 ma current on the supply lines for 3 phase delta series resonances made with a trisectional short across the 3 series resonant midpoints., as an amperage reading exterior to the WYE trisectional short of the delta series resonances. Inside the actual phasing 67.3 ma was measured, showing that a trisectional short does almost exactly what I predicted by theories based on the observed action of the BRS. The 67.3 ma vs the 10.3 ma input represents the parallel rise of amperage found in a tank circuit . Interior on the WYE short path was again about 1.73 times that value or 104 ma. Thus here we can see two parallel branched current options are available, either 1.15 amps across the delta components, or 17 times less amperage by using the interior wye path for parallel instead of series resonance. The observations of the BRS show that a resonant circuit always chooses the path of highest impedance when that choice is made available. This seems entirely different from what happens in Ohms law, where the current always takes the predominant path of lesser resistance. Now let us calculate what the voltage across the cap should have read if the phase was in complete resonance. That phase was .153 Henry with 12.6 ohms resistance. The frequency was predicted at 201 hz. The inductive reactance X(L)= 2 (PI)(F)(L)=6.28(201)(.153)=193.1 Ohms. Dividing by 12.6 gives a q of 15.3. That should have meant 15.3(14)=214.5 volts should have been present to overcome the inductive reactance. Now here we see that the resonant rise of voltage appears to not be the correct value. Since coil systems are in mutual inductance, that may be what has caused these different figures. Double checking the capacitive value to be used we know that x(L) must = X(C)= 193 ohms. X(C)=1/2(pi)fC=1/(6.28)(201)C therefore C=1/6.28(193.1)(201)=1/243746= 4.1 * 10^-6 F or 4.1 uf. Undoubtably individual measurements of both L and C amperage quantities in reactive state needs to be made to assure that the correct quantities are being used. Now if we also consider that the supply line amperage is supposed to be the square root of 3 times what each phase uses ,then 1.73 times more amperage is in the 3 phase supply line then is being inputed to each of the two phases it connects to. Thus each phase actually only has an input of 10.3/1.73= 5.95 ma. in tank condition. This input figure vs the actual recorded amperage of 67.3 ma then means that in 3 phase parallel resonance the acting q is 67.3/5.95=11.3 Thus here we see that the q for the parallel resonance is higher than the q for series resonance. The inverse effect takes place with the large 56 Henry coils placed into 60 hz resonance. In these large coils in series resonance the q is 15, but in parallel res. the q is only 10. Much more work lies ahead to try a finer tuning. All of the above only verifies what has been considered to be true by the understanding of loops sharing a common path, and summing those phase currents accordingly. hdn ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 18 18:59:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA14600; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:58:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:58:17 -0700 Message-ID: <39EE5753.881C1B55@csrlink.net> Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:07:15 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------9426874EB3E4AEAEAF2B06FC" Resent-Message-ID: <"Ny_F_3.0.lZ3.uKbxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17208 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: [Fwd: 30,000 new Mars images are now on web] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9426874EB3E4AEAEAF2B06FC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------9426874EB3E4AEAEAF2B06FC Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from www-onlab.jpl.nasa.gov (www-onlab.jpl.nasa.gov [137.78.99.25]) by uplink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07067; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:03:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (jplnews@localhost) by www-onlab.jpl.nasa.gov (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA21998; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:01:04 -0700 (PDT) From: JPLNews@jpl.nasa.gov Subject: 30,000 new Mars images are now on web Reply-To: news-owner@www.jpl.nasa.gov To: undisclosed-recipients:; Message-ID: X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 MEDIA RELATIONS OFFICE JET PROPULSION LABORATORY CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION PASADENA, CALIFORNIA 91109. TELEPHONE (818) 354-5011 http://www.jpl.nasa.gov Contact: Mary Hardin IMAGE ADVISORY October 16, 2000 30,000 NEW MARS IMAGES ARE NOW AVAILABLE ON THE WEB The imaging team of NASA's Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft has doubled the number of Mars pictures available to the public with the release of a new archive of red planet pictures totally slightly more than 30,000 images. The archive contains all the pictures that were taken by Mars Global Surveyor from September 1999 through February 2000 and includes the images that were taken to search for the Mars Polar Lander spacecraft. No evidence of the lander was ever seen. The archive also covers the period of south polar cap retreat through southern spring and into early summer. This includes changes observed on the south polar cap's "Swiss cheese" surfaces, among others. The full gallery of 30,000 images is available at http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ , http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs . A sample of images is available at http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/oct_2000_sampler/ http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs . Mars Global Surveyor was launched on November 7, 1996 and entered orbit around Mars on September 12, 1997. The spacecraft has been systematically mapping the red planet since March 1999. Mars Global Surveyor is managed by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The camera system was built and is operated by Malin Space Science Systems, San Diego, Calif. JPL's industrial partner is Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, Colo., which developed and operates the spacecraft. JPL is a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. ##### --------------------------------------------------------------- You are subscribed to JPL's news mailing list. To unsubscribe, please send an e-mail to JPLNews@jpl.nasa.gov and in the body of the message include the following line. unsubscribe news Please do not reply to this e-mail. For help, send a message to listmaster@www.jpl.nasa.gov. --------------9426874EB3E4AEAEAF2B06FC-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 18 19:17:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA20169; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:12:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:11:59 -0700 Message-ID: <004201c03971$d6497580$7c736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:11:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003F_01C03937.29213300" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"zNSLI1.0.-w4.lXbxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17209 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: mid air This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C03937.29213300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable is there some forms of antigravity propulsion that might be designed so = that if one of these ag propelled craft is on a collision course with = any other ag craft or conventional aircraft both craft would repel one = another and not do any damage?=20 ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C03937.29213300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
is there some forms of antigravity propulsion that = might be=20 designed so that if one of these ag propelled craft is on a collision = course=20 with any other ag craft or conventional aircraft both craft would repel = one=20 another and not do any damage?

------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C03937.29213300-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 18 20:09:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA13754; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:09:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:09:02 -0700 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:08:24 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"gRzcp3.0.pM3.DNcxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17210 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Here's the basic gist of what I did as far as testing the heater. The inner drum was of solid steel and the outer was a section of steel rod bored out to 1/8" larger than the inner drum. I set the whole assembly up in a milling machine when done with roughly a 1/4" spacing from the bottom of the inner drum to the bottom of the bored out rod. For oil, since I have no idea of what the recommended oil is (Anybody know for certain what Quaker State F-L-M-A-T Fluid Ford Motor Company Qualifications No. 2P-670306 M 2633F is? I think it maybe transmission fluid, but am not certain.), I used cutting fluid, which is an oil based lubricant mixed with water. I ran the mill at speeds ranging from approx. 50 to 2000 RPM and got NO increase in heat whatsoever. I'm working on a hollow inner drum to see if that makes a difference, but I don't know. If anyone's interested I can post more detailed information and pics of the unit this weekend. Brian Drake (Bmd2323@aol.com) ****** Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. ****** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 18 20:39:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA26717; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:39:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:39:20 -0700 Message-ID: <39EE6F0B.D514D36F@csrlink.net> Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:48:28 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1uezX3.0._W6.epcxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17211 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: cold fusion onfo site url http://www.kemi.aau.dk/~db/fusion/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 18 20:53:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA01551; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:53:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:53:08 -0700 Message-ID: <39EE6FA8.E9C39B8B@csrlink.net> Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:51:04 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ylpgC1.0.vN.a0dxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17212 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: electrochemical resources (links) http://electrochem.cwru.edu/estir/inet.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 18 21:40:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA19130; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:39:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:39:46 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:39:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup X-Sender: w9sz@bluestem To: Sean cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Computer virus In-Reply-To: <33149158.971914405477.JavaMail.imail@batty.excite.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"voICA1.0.og4.Hidxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17213 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Sean wrote: > It all depends on the data you're looking for. > I have knowledge in this field, but I'm unwilling to create a new virus. If > you want info on a virus, or it's symptoms, check out www.cai.com. They've > got all kinds of info, and an excellent, free, antivirus app. > > -Sean > Thanks, Sean. OK, here's what happened: A few days ago I turned on my computer and it tried to start Windows 95 but came up with an error message of "Unable to locate WIN.COM" and defaulted to DOS. I tried rebooting it a few times with the same result each time. On a hunch I took a look at the AUTOEXEC.BAT file. There was one line altered - the PATH line simply said "PATH C:\". Also, the AUTOEXEC.BAT file was dated the day before! I have not touched the AUTOEXEC.BAT file or installed any software in a month or so. I replaced the AUTOEXEC.BAT file with a backup I had and rebooted - it worked fine and has worked fine ever since. I ran Norton Antivirus and it came up blank. I looked at the other AUTOEXEC files in the root directory with extensions like .BAK, .IOM, .DOS etc. and they were all unaltered. The CONFIG.SYS file was unaltered. This is the weirdest problem I've seen. If it was a virus it must've done its job and erased itself. More of a nuisance than anything else as it didn't do any real damage. There is a new virus called "W95.MTX.dr" going around by e-mail - I don't know what it does or if I picked it up somewhere. Let me know if I'm mailing out viruses to this list without my knowledge - PLEASE! Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 18 21:47:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA22349; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:46:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:46:54 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <96.b080619.271fd6b2@aol.com> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:46:42 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"BgyW11.0.yS5.-odxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17214 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: I received this after posting Bearden disclosure I received this after posting about the Bearden disclosure. What do you guys think? Is he right? I left his name off as I do not know him. Start of post I received> >Has said Tom Bearden > > Use of a permanent magnet simply uses its magnetostatic scalar > > potential to evoke and sustain the giant negentropy mechanism. This > > sustains the continuous flow of the magnetic vector potential, > It is well known that if the magnetostatic scalar potential is perturbed, e.g. by conversion to magnetkinetic vector forces, quark spin-axis precession angle increases. What do you think allows a heat pump to work? This always results in a reduction of the magnetostatic scaler. This is a law of nature, as first discovered by Miller in his famous experiments in 1914 and later explained by Bohr in his work on atomic energy in the 40s. If the scalar is reduced, the potential flow MUST decrease. > > continually replenishes the magnetic dipole sustaining the > > magnetic vector potential energy flow. Note that we do not destroy the > > source dipole, as every conventional closed current loop electrical system > > does. > You may not destroy the dipole, but you certainly cause it to undergo a phasic polarity shift. Phasic polarity shifts consume negelectrons. Negelectron consumption has the effect of slowing down the quark spin rate in the magnetostatic crystal structure. The energy consumed doing this surely exceeds the energy released in redirecting the vector potential. Do your reading, Vinci et al showed this in the Milan experiments in 1931. > As Whittaker showed in 1903, once the dipolarity is established, the > > giant negentropy process continues so long as the dipole exists. > Again, do your homework. Vinci and his group demonstrated almost simultaneously with Bethe and Hertz that diploarity is a polypseudophase of the negelectron. This completely undermined the principal assumption of Whittaker's work. (Whittaker was so ashamed that he left the university and lived the rest of his life as cross dresser living in SOHO.) Negelectrons prefer to exist in Heisenberg field with an amorphous subpahsic polarity distribution. This means the dipolarity is fleeting at best, and that sustaining it would be nearly impossible.< End of post I received Regards, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 18 23:20:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA17221; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:20:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:20:17 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39EE4025.38D83C94@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:28:21 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: I received this after posting Bearden disclosure References: <96.b080619.271fd6b2@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cP_q_3.0.-C4.WAfxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17215 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > I received this after posting about the Bearden disclosure. > What do you guys think? Is he right? I left his name off as I do not know > him. > Start of post I received> > It is well known that if the magnetostatic scalar potential is perturbed, > e.g. by conversion to magnetkinetic vector forces, quark spin-axis precession > angle increases. What do you think allows a heat pump to work? This always > results in a reduction of the magnetostatic scaler. This is a law of nature, > as first discovered by Miller in his famous experiments in 1914 and later > explained by Bohr in his work on atomic energy in the 40s. If the scalar is > reduced, the potential flow MUST decrease. Again, Quarks were NOT known in 1914 or the 1940s. So how could this be part of a 'law of nature' being researched at these dates? If I remember my BASIC HS chemistry and Physics, wasn't the Proton and electron accepted as fundamental particles at the time? Only until the advent of high powered collectors was the postulation of the Quark needed to explain the observations. Also, a heat pump doesn't depend on the spin precession of quarks... ;) It can be accounted for at a low level quite nicely with the entropy of the electrons and nuclei, the contribution of 'quarks' is minimal. > > > You may not destroy the dipole, but you certainly cause it to undergo a > phasic polarity shift. Phasic polarity shifts consume negelectrons. > Negelectron consumption has the effect of slowing down the quark spin rate in > the magnetostatic crystal structure. The energy consumed doing this surely > exceeds the energy released in redirecting the vector potential. Do your > reading, Vinci et al showed this in the Milan experiments in 1931. Uhm, 'Quarks' weren't known to exist in 1931, and so, how could their involvement in this mumbo jumbo be proven in the 'Milan Experiments'? I mean, this smells of poop... > Again, do your homework. Vinci and his group demonstrated almost > simultaneously with Bethe and Hertz that diploarity is a polypseudophase of > the negelectron. This completely undermined the principal assumption of > Whittaker's work. (Whittaker was so ashamed that he left the university and > lived the rest of his life as cross dresser living in SOHO.) Negelectrons > prefer to exist in Heisenberg field with an amorphous subpahsic polarity > distribution. This means the dipolarity is fleeting at best, and that > sustaining it would be nearly impossible.< End of post I received Gee, this sounds like a fricking episode of STAR TREK... "Data, the subphasic polarity distribution is shifting! I'm losing the pattern buffer!" "Geordi, remodulate the heisenberg detectors, and recalibarte the tetrion injectors! Cross modulate the subphasic feild with local subspace varience!" And what the HELL is a negelectron? A positron? I hope not, then the circuit would be emitting deadly 512 kev gamma rays from annihilations with electrons in it... Clean power, yeah right... ;) This guy should write for Star Trek, he's got techno-babble down PAT ;) > > Regards, > Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 19 02:20:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA22134; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 02:20:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 02:20:38 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:20:32 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Computer virus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"QttIO3.0.lP5.cphxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17216 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Zack - If you have a disk utility that can run intensive and extended disk drive read/write tests you might want to use it. It could be that your drive occasionally reads and/or writes junk. I had a drive do that a few years ago, and it nearly drove me crazy. The flawed writes were so far apart in time that a few minutes of the drive tests would miss them. I went for months with weird crashes and data modification incidents before the frequency of the incidents finally began to show up on tests. I replaced the drive and all was well. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI >A few days ago I turned on my computer and it tried to start Windows 95 >but came up with an error message of "Unable to locate WIN.COM" and >defaulted to DOS. I tried rebooting it a few times with the same result >each time. On a hunch I took a look at the AUTOEXEC.BAT file. There was >one line altered - the PATH line simply said "PATH C:\". Also, the >AUTOEXEC.BAT file was dated the day before! I have not touched the >AUTOEXEC.BAT file or installed any software in a month or so. I replaced >the AUTOEXEC.BAT file with a backup I had and rebooted - it worked fine >and has worked fine ever since. I ran Norton Antivirus and it came up >blank. > >I looked at the other AUTOEXEC files in the root directory with extensions >like .BAK, .IOM, .DOS etc. and they were all unaltered. The CONFIG.SYS >file was unaltered. > >This is the weirdest problem I've seen. If it was a virus it must've done >its job and erased itself. More of a nuisance than anything else as it >didn't do any real damage. > >There is a new virus called "W95.MTX.dr" going around by e-mail - I don't >know what it does or if I picked it up somewhere. Let me know if I'm >mailing out viruses to this list without my knowledge - PLEASE! > >Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 19 06:48:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA31501; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 06:48:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 06:48:36 -0700 Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:48:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup X-Sender: w9sz@bluestem To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: I received this after posting Bearden disclosure In-Reply-To: <39EE4025.38D83C94@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2YjMm3.0.6i7.pklxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17217 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Daniel wrote: > HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > "Geordi, remodulate the heisenberg detectors, and recalibarte the > tetrion injectors! Cross modulate the subphasic feild with local > subspace varience!" > "I'm not so sure I want to do that!" (Sorry, couldn't resist.) :-) > And what the HELL is a negelectron? > > A positron? I hope not, then the circuit would be emitting deadly 512 > kev gamma rays from annihilations with electrons in it... Clean power, > yeah right... ;) > > This guy should write for Star Trek, he's got techno-babble down PAT > > ;) > > > > Regards, > > Butch My thoughts exactly. The first time I read it I thought "What the hell is he talking about? What world is he from?" Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 19 12:10:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA13857; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:09:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:09:32 -0700 Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:09:22 -0400 Message-Id: <200010191909.PAA17260@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater Resent-Message-ID: <"Il8bS2.0.MO3.hRqxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17218 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Whoa! I never did take the time to look up this patent, so I didn't have a picture of what you were working on, but I have been reading your posts, and it looks like you are doing something along the lines of my patent, the Clem device, Hydrosonic Pump, etc., not cavitation per se, but a mechanical, rotary, liquid heater, nonetheless. There are a gazillion friction heaters, and I've never heard of this one, so let me find this patent, and give it a good read over before I make a comment, and/or recommendations. Believe me, if they didn't work, there wouldn't be so many patents for them. In the meantime, what is your rotor diameter, thickness, what type of shaft seal are you using, what is the input line pressure if any, and/or what is the internal pressure of the device? These are all critical factors for producing heat in these types of heaters. Will get back to you after reading the patent. If there is anybody that can get that thing to cook an egg, it's me.;) As for the oil, Quaker State must have a website up by now. Everybody else does, and there must be some technical info on it besides the Ford cross reference data. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 19 13:02:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA12133; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:01:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:01:52 -0700 Message-ID: <39EF5F09.4E80AA6B@harti.com> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 21:52:25 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <00a801c03174$57a56b80$4700fed4@adolf.schneider> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AYNXN.0.Qz2.mCrxv"@mx1> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17219 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Neutrinolysis movies uploaded ! Hi All, the movies from SHAD are now online at: http://www.overunity.com/shad These are ASF MPEG-4 Movies which run about 1 to 3 minutes each. You need at least Mediaplayer 6.4 to watch them. Please use GetRight or Netvampire to get these movies, cause somethimes via Netscape download there are errors. With IE 5.x you can just rightclick the link and say: "Save Link as" and this will store the movie to your harddrive. For the free Windows Mediplayer go to: www.microsoft.com/windowsmedia The first 4 movies show his gasoline (Benzin) diffuion process and the 5th movie shows the same with just water, although there was not such a strong gas production, cause the resonator circuit inside the ND egg was designed for the gasoline frequencies... Enjoy ! Here are still the pics of it: http://overunity.terrashare.com/shad/index.html Neutrinolysis unit Splitting water, gasoline or kerosine with just the help of Neutrino-power ! (The "Neutrino egg") ! It just needs a pump to let the water flow through the Neutrino-Diffusor egg. There it is splitted without any electrical input into oxyhydrogen gas and you can see (in this case) the water coming out with the oxyhydrogen bubles from the hose. It also works with gas and kerosine, so you have a very efficient carburetor ! It works by attracting the Neutrinos from the Kosmos and simular to an Orgon Accumulator and resonating the water, so it is splitted at special passive resonance electrodes. No electrical power needed. You could also place this Neutrino-Diffusor egg into a flowing river and thus generate oxyhydrogen gas ! Invented by Shad. Released 13th of October 2000 copyright by http://shadaether.tripod.com and http://www.overunity.com Neutrinolysis Einheit Spaltet Wasser, Benzin und Kerosin mit Hilfe von Neutrino-Energie ! Braucht keine elektrische Energie, um Wasser in Knallgas zu spalten ! Das Wasser wird in diesem Fall durch das Neutrino-Diffusor-Ei gepumpt und am Schlauch kommt Knallgas mit Rest-Wasser gemixt heraus ! Ganz ohne elektrische Energie im Ei. Es könnte auch in einen Fluss gestellt werden und würde dann auch Knallgas erzeugen, gänzliche ohne externe Energiezufuhr ! Man kann es aber auch als extrem guten Vergaser für Benzin oder Kerosin verwenden, der dann eine sehr hohe Effiziens hat ! Im Ei sind passive Resonatoren für die Neutrino-Wasser Kopplung vorhanden, so daß das Wasser an diesen speziellen Elektroden gespaltet wird. Erfinder: Shad. Veröffentlicht am 13. Oktober 2000 copyright by http://shadaether.tripod.com und http://www.overunity.com -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 19 13:21:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA22142; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:20:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:20:34 -0700 Message-ID: <39EF61A0.5E15CD69@harti.com> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:03:28 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <00a801c03174$57a56b80$4700fed4@adolf.schneider> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Z0UiV.0.pP5.IUrxv"@mx1> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17220 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Tomi movies Online ! Hi All, the TOMI linear motor movies from Stewart Harris are now online at: http://www.overunity.com/tomi Movie 6 and 7 are missing, cause these were posted on a binaries Newsgroup and I only got these which are now in this directory. I converted them to ASF, cause they had a very cryptic Codec, so now also lower end PCs can watch them. These are ASF MPEG-4 Movies which run just only a few seconds, so file size is pretty small. You need at least Mediaplayer 6.4 to watch them. Please use GetRight or Netvampire to get these movies, cause sometimes via Netscape download there are errors. With IE 5.x you can just rightclick the link and say: "Save Link as" and this will store the movie to your harddrive. For the free Windows Mediaplayer go to: www.microsoft.com/windowsmedia Enjoy ! -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 19 14:39:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA27018; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:38:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:38:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:38:09 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: I received this after posting Bearden disclosure In-Reply-To: <96.b080619.271fd6b2@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"8cfac1.0.2c6.8dsxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17221 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > I received this after posting about the Bearden disclosure. > What do you guys think? Is he right? I left his name off as I do not know > him. Sounds like he's trying to out-Bearden Mr. Bearden! :) It's satire. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 19 15:01:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA04320; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:01:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:01:18 -0700 Message-ID: <004f01c03a17$f776f100$78736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: I received this after posting Bearden disclosure Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:00:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"LW7sv2.0.F31.jysxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17222 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com william what is he disclosing? ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Beaty" To: Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: I received this after posting Bearden disclosure > On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > > I received this after posting about the Bearden disclosure. > > What do you guys think? Is he right? I left his name off as I do not know > > him. > > Sounds like he's trying to out-Bearden Mr. Bearden! > > :) > > It's satire. > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 19 16:05:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA29531; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:04:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:04:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:04:31 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"qa0Dh3.0.3D7.2utxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17223 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: TESLA: MASTER OF LIGHTNING -- PBS DOCUMENTARY!!! (fwd) see below ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:40:28 EDT From: NPproducer@aol.com To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: TESLA: MASTER OF LIGHTNING -- PBS DOCUMENTARY!!! Tesla: Master of Lightning will be airing in December 12, 2000 on PBS (check local PBS listings for exact date and time). Tesla: Master of Lightning, directed by Robert Uth and produced by Phylis Geller of New Voyage Communications, will be the first major documentary on Nikola Tesla, arguably the most important inventor of the 20th Century. Attached you will find a press kit with all pertinent information on the documentary, as well as contact listings for actor Stacy Keach, voice of Tesla. Please forward this email to all parties you think may have an interest in this fascinating subject and visit our site at: http://www.newvoyagepublishing.com/tesla.html Nikola Tesla (link for aol users only) Here you will also find pictures and press kits. This is indeed a momentous occasion! Also, check out PBS.org and search for Tesla. On "Tesla Comp" you will see a test page that will be ready at the end of November. http://www.pbs.org/tesla/index.html Tesla Comps (link for aol users only) See the excitement coming! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 19 16:42:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA14248; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:42:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:42:15 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39EF3450.F1B00747@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:50:08 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: [FG]: Neutrinolysis movies uploaded ! References: <00a801c03174$57a56b80$4700fed4@adolf.schneider> <39EF5F09.4E80AA6B@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eB5lj3.0.RU3.MRuxv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17224 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > Neutrinolysis unit > Splitting water, gasoline or > kerosine with just the help > of Neutrino-power ! > (The "Neutrino egg") ! > It just needs a pump to let the > water flow through the > Neutrino-Diffusor egg. > There it is splitted without > any electrical input > into oxyhydrogen gas and > you can see > (in this case) the water > coming out with the oxyhydrogen > bubles from the hose. > It also works with gas and > kerosine, so you have a > very efficient carburetor ! > It works by attracting the > Neutrinos from the Kosmos > and simular to an Orgon > Accumulator and resonating > the water, so it is splitted > at special passive resonance > electrodes. No electrical power > needed. You could also place > this Neutrino-Diffusor egg into > a flowing river and thus generate > oxyhydrogen gas ! > Invented by Shad. > Released 13th of October 2000 > copyright by > http://shadaether.tripod.com > and > http://www.overunity.com How does one attract neturinos? I mean, they have almost no mass, pass through most matter... They RARELY bump into anything. And when they do smack into a proton in a water molecule, they don't break it down into hydrogen and oxygen, they cause the production of a muon, and the muon emits a brief pulse of blue light ( cherenkov adiation ) before decaying. How this is supposed to break down gas, I have no clue... <:) Oh, but riiiiight, conventional physics is wrong... I keep forgetting that predicting the mass of a proton PURELY from the current equations of QCD to withing several trillionths of it's actual weight means nothing... ;) That each particle predicted to exist by modern theory has been found means nothing... ;) Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 19 17:09:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA03224; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:08:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:08:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000b01c03a29$7961da20$753dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <004f01c03a17$f776f100$78736bc6@compaq> Subject: Re: [FG]: I received this after posting Bearden disclosure Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:05:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"7CKP92.0.Go.apuxv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17225 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > Sounds like he's trying to out-Bearden Mr. Bearden! Ah, how true. Gawd how I detest overly inflated techno pomposity. Like most of you gents, I pop in on Naudin daily, and so when he posted the article and document link to the MEG, I had to dive in. When I came up for air, I realized it was the same old thing. Again. A bold O-U claim for a comparatively (deceptively?) simple device that, at first, seems like it would be a snap to build. But then...hmmmm ... we find nanocrystalline ferromagnetics are required. OK, still no problem, as the apparent vendor and a couple of sources were given. But for something so simple, where are the independent successful replications? My prediction: there will be a handful of replications over the next few months. Some will be promising, but most negative. Then we will move into the next round, where Mr. Bearden or the other originators will probably state that the materials need to be of some particular alloy, or pre-treated Sweet style in some esoteric annealing or conditioning sequence. Then the average experimenter will eventually lose interest, the MEG will fade from the active websites like the MRA device a few years ago. I beg to be proven wrong. I really do hope that the MEG works. But between the revelations of cold fusion breakthroughs that are never heard from again and devices like Sweete's triode that fade into the archives; the MEG story just smells the same. Claims of BIG O-U, tons and tons of terminology that seems custom crafted, rather than built upon existing terms and definitions, some fair amount of math that is safely out of reach of your average experimenter to double check, patents supposedly pending. Neat little marketing diagrams showing the MEG powering all sorts of grid loads. ***sigh*** Guys, I am not the skeptic you might infer. I really do want to see these sorts of things work. I hope some of you fellows can do as good a job of jumping on the MEG as you did when I brought the Tribo-grav to the table, even though that ended up probably being mostly artifact. I've just gotten pretty jaded when it comes to O-U that utilizes the same macroscopic E-M principles we've used for 110 years. Something based on a really novel concept, like SL or micro-structuring or something that hasn't been tromped around on before; that would fire me up. Anyway, here's to MEG; may it either work or die quickly and not haunt the websites for 20 years. If it makes it to UL listing, gimme a call; I'll be in the back room working on electro-gravity... NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 19 17:18:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA04666; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:17:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:17:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001601c03a2a$c8f34f00$753dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:14:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C03A09.3EB463E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"39JX73.0.c81.Pyuxv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17226 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: LED update This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C03A09.3EB463E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On the heels of my rant, I do have a couple of update tidbits: 1. I finally recieved a set of 5 blue GaN LEDs to try some replications = of the Sam Faile current anomaly. Will strive to get them hooked up = this weekend. Will post the results. 2. Speaking of LEDs. The latest addition by Jean Louis Naudin to his = Stavros Dimitriou files (on his main page) includes a green LED = experiment from 1994! wow! I read through this carefully, and it may = explain some of the weird color shifting and current anomaly Dr. Faile = has been playing with. Stavros was pulsing his LEDs at about 1.8 MHz = with an asymmetrical waveform, down in the low current range just above = cut-off (like Sam). Maybe the new GaN LEDs, that appear to go into wild = RF oscillation at low forward currents are self exciting themselves, = without the 7555 timer circuit Stavros used. NR ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C03A09.3EB463E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On the heels of my rant, I do have a = couple of=20 update tidbits:
 
1.  I finally recieved a set of 5 = blue GaN=20 LEDs to try some replications of the Sam Faile current anomaly.  = Will=20 strive to get them hooked up this weekend.  Will post the=20 results.
 
2.  Speaking of LEDs.  The = latest=20 addition by Jean Louis Naudin to his Stavros Dimitriou files (on his = main page)=20 includes a green LED experiment from 1994! wow!  I read through = this=20 carefully, and it may explain some of the weird color shifting and = current=20 anomaly Dr. Faile has been playing with.  Stavros was pulsing his = LEDs at=20 about 1.8 MHz with an asymmetrical waveform, down in the low current = range just=20 above cut-off (like Sam).  Maybe the new GaN LEDs, that appear to = go into=20 wild RF oscillation at low forward currents are self exciting = themselves,=20 without the 7555 timer circuit Stavros used.
 
NR
------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C03A09.3EB463E0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 20 18:29:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA26641; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:28:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:28:38 -0700 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: <84.c49954d.27224b1f@aol.com> Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:27:59 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"55KvH2.0.AW6.55Fyv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17227 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Michael, What I've built is a rough prototype to prove the concept before I actually spend the time to build a full blown version. According to the information I have, all that really is supposed to matter is that you have a 1/8" clearance between the sides of the two drums and a 1/4" clearance between the bottom. I did that, and set the puppy up in a vertical milling machine, using the milling machine to spin the inner drum. As for sealing, what I did was basically have a slightly larger section of the inner drum which rested over the inner section. Not a perfect seal, of course, but based on what I'd read it should have been enough to get the thing to work. The dimensions of the outer cylinder are: 1.75" Dia. .19" Thick wall 3.5" Length with the inside depth of the tube being 2.25" The dimensions of the inner cylinder are: 1.239" Dia 2" Length The inner drum at the time of the initial test was solid, am now planning on hollowing it out to see if that doesn't improve the situation. I didn't have any method of measuring what the internal pressure of the device might be, nor did I have a flowing oil supply, simply a bath of oil that the inner drum sat in. I'll be able to post pictures in a day or two when I get the roll of film developed. In order to prove that the device DID work, I stuck it in the freezer (sans oil) for approxiamtely 15 - 20 minutes before setting it up. I let it run for at least 30 min. and all it did was very gradually get up to room tempature at a pace that seemed neither unusually fast, nor unusually slow. I checked on Quaker State's website for a reference to F-L-M-A-T Fluid and found none. Also didn't find an e-mail address where I could ask them what it was. A search on the net yielded the following possibilities: Tranny fluid, brake fluid, or a thermal transfer fluid. However, none of the pages that turned up in the search said that they were a replacement for the Quaker State fluid or even had F-L-M-A-T anywhere on their page. Am checking with human sources to see if they know anything, but so far no luck. In the meantime, I'd be interested in any input that you might have. Heck, I'd be willing to buy one of your designs if it was for sale at a reasonable price. I ain't trying to get rich of the thing, I'm just trying to keep warm in the winter time. Brian Drake (Bmd2323@aol.com) ****** Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. ****** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 20 21:22:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA03887; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:21:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:21:09 -0700 Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:21:02 -0400 Message-Id: <200010210421.AAA14234@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater Resent-Message-ID: <"sUp2G3.0.Wy.qcHyv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17228 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ahoy! I just had a look at that patent, and with these types of heaters, there is no way that you can not generate heat however, the amount will depend on the motor horsepower, and how well loaded the motor is. These are just friction devices, they aren't magic (unless you are looking for static effects), and you will get exactly 100% heat energy out per unit of electrical energy that you put into it. The wild thing is that just loading up a motor and putting a fan on it to disperse the air will give you the exact same amount of heat. No drums or oil are even necessary. Their main advantage is that they can produce heat in places where a resistance coil might start a fire, and that is about it, really. If you want to get double duty out of any system like that then you take advantage of the mechanical action of the motor in some way to do useful work while heating your space. A refrigerator is a good example. Even in the wintertime, most people still want to keep their food in the refrigerator, and it removes the heat from the inside of the thing to the outside of it, heating your house for free. Most of that heat however, is usually trapped in the small space behind the refrigerator, and requires a small fan to move the warm air into the rest of the room. If you can think of any other useful things that can be done with any electrical motor, then you should do them indoors to heat your home, and keep a fan blowing on the motors to disperse the heat during the wintertime. You will get 100% of the heat, plus the useful work of the motor driven process. The other type of rotary heaters are the ones that produce cavitation, and those do produce a bit more heat energy than what you put in for electrical energy, but it is not a lot more. With pure water, it can be between 5 and 20%. I've never tested oil, but cavitation will burn stuff, and so whatever you use, if it is combustable, all the additional heat will be a result of normal chemical combustion, unless again you are achieving some electrostatic or nuclear events. I've gotten as much as 65% more heat energy out per unit of electrical energy in by dissolving certain chemicals in the water, but it was just burning the chemicals, as far as I could determine. I've also dissolved nuclear material in water, and cavitated it, but I don't recommend it at all. I'm fairly certain that cavitation speeds up the nuclear decay process, and you don't want that happening in your home just to get warm, if you know what I mean. The easiest of that type of heater to build yourself is the Hydrosonic pump, but if you want, I can give you the plans for mine. It's quite similar, but a lot more difficult to build. The only advantage was that I've gotten better cavitation results with it. There is even an easy-to-build hybrid that I've wanted to do, but never got around to it. I've built both types, and they both work, so I could help with the construction if you want. I don't charge anything, so don't worry about it. The main thing that people use cavitators for these days is in the production of certain chemicals and materials. Most of the cavitators are sonic, but some are mechanical, and some are laser based. Some people are using them as evaporators, disinfectants, steam producers, etc., but as a home space heater, they take a while to pay for themselves. Properly designed, I think that their main mass market would be for a combination water heater, chemical-free purifier for swimming pools, since they produce a small amount of H2O2, but so far, nobody has taken me up on manufacturing them. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 20 22:44:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA24542; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:44:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:44:15 -0700 Message-ID: <001101c03ae1$421503e0$3ee5b5d0@a9o0z0> From: "Alik S" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:01:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZX6gz2.0.N_5.lqIyv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17229 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >The dimensions of the outer cylinder are: >1.75" Dia. >.19" Thick wall >3.5" Length with the inside depth of the tube being 2.25" > >The dimensions of the inner cylinder are: >1.239" Dia >2" Length Isn't this tiny compared to the patented unit ? Could it be that surface speed of your rotor is very much lower than Frenette's original ? Alik S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 00:03:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA05783; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:02:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:02:50 -0700 Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 03:02:33 -0400 Message-Id: <200010210702.DAA30247@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater Resent-Message-ID: <"QAnI-.0.GQ1.N-Jyv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17230 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Alik writes: >Isn't this tiny compared to the patented unit ? Could it be that surface >speed of your rotor is very much lower than Frenette's original ? > >Alik S. This will of course affect the warm up time of the oil, as well as will the rotor speed. The patent specified a rotor speed between 1800 and 3600rpms. I think that Brian was using a top speed of 2000rpms Brian just isn't loading the motor very well. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 00:44:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA11980; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:43:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:43:59 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 07:44:42 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Message-ID: <39f24878.197074972@mail.midiowa.net> References: <200010210702.DAA30247@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> In-Reply-To: <200010210702.DAA30247@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA11957 Resent-Message-ID: <"Z59wM1.0.5x2._aKyv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17231 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Knuke, On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 03:02:33 -0400, knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) wrote: >Alik writes: >>Isn't this tiny compared to the patented unit ? Could it be that surface >>speed of your rotor is very much lower than Frenette's original ? >> > >This will of course affect the warm up time of the oil, as well as will the >rotor speed. The patent specified a rotor speed between 1800 and 3600rpms. >I think that Brian was using a top speed of 2000rpms Brian just isn't >loading the motor very well. Perhaps rotation speed isn't quite what Alik meant. Maybe speed for this type of device (as in Griggs pump and your smaller replication) should be measure in cm/second instead of RPM. Could there be a "shear" speed, or a speed that could cause a sonic oscillation in the medium being pumped? -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 02:29:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA26534; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 02:29:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 02:29:18 -0700 Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 05:29:12 -0400 Message-Id: <200010210929.FAA27233@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater Resent-Message-ID: <"LVJVa1.0.QU6.k7Myv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17232 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dean writes: >Perhaps rotation speed isn't quite what Alik meant. Well, if you are going for friction, then the surface area of the drum and the stator, the rotor speed, the viscosity of the friction heat coupling liquid (oil), and the speed of the airflow over the the outer surfaces will determine how much heat tranfer to the air will take place. You still will be limited by the horsepower of the motor, and how well loaded the motor is. Eventually, all of the heat generated by the motor will end up in the air, but it will take some time for that to happen without help. The drum and the oil are what load the motor and mchanically create friction heat, the motor itself creates heat from friction in the bearings and electrical resistance in the coils, the outer surface area of the outer drum spreads the heat from the oil out, and the fan is what disperses the heat from the combination of the motor casing and heated surfaces to the air. If everything is tiny, and the motor itself isn't properly loaded, then you won't be putting much energy into the system, and you won't get much heat out either. I think that is what Alik meant. ;) >Maybe speed for this type of device (as in Griggs pump and your >smaller replication) should be measure in cm/second instead of RPM. >Could there be a "shear" speed, or a speed that could cause a sonic >oscillation in the medium being pumped? That is basically what Griggs was saying, but I found out differently through actual observation. In other words, there really is no "sonic" element to the Hydrosonic Pump that drives the cavitation effects. There is a brute force oscillation that occurs within the rotor voids that starts at a given rotor speed, and the cavitation efficacy only gets multiplied at higher rotor speeds. This was actually visible in all my devices with the aid of a stroboscope, since I made them all out of clear plastics to find out exactly what was going on in there. Sheldon Hughs showed me an interesting shear effect by using a certain variation of the so called Griggs device geometry shortly after Griggs left the Aqua Corporation that created vortices in the gap between the rotor and the housing. It also increased the cavitation efficacy, so there were "sweet spots" in the speed range with that device that were coincidental due to the size of the gap and the internal pressure, but you could get the same effect with any rotor speed over a given amount simply by adjusting the internal pressure until you got the bubbles to collapse. Once the device was up to temp, and the internal pressures and the flow rates were adjusted properly, it would run in OU mode for long periods of time. And yes, you can express the rotor speed in terms of the cm/sec or mph of the outer diameter of the rotor, and it might be a more accurate or complete description than saying an X" diameter rotor turning at Y rpms, which is what I've been doing. Either way, it comes out to the same thing, I think. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 08:45:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA28096; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 08:45:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 08:45:01 -0700 X-Originating-IP: 213.6.2.4 X-URL: http://www.mail2web.com/ Sender: "harti@harti.com" From: "harti@harti.com" Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:45:37 -0400 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" CC: "newman-l@emachine.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" Reply-To: harti@harti.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailer: JMail 3.7.0 by Dimac (www.dimac.net) Message-Id: <200010211145840.SM00272@m2w038> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-Printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id IAA28074 Resent-Message-ID: <"lrkrV3.0.rs6.zdRyv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17233 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Biggest German Car magazine prints reports about Dingle !! http://www.wasserauto.de/Daniel_Dingle/daniel_dingle.html#Autobild Hi All, this is a link to the newest report in the biggest german Car magazine "Auto-Bild" ( 800.000 copies sold) which visited Dingle and wrote this test report. So it seems the "water-powered future" is soon here ! :) Regards, Stefan. Original Message: ----------------- From: MNM minema@gmx.de Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:16:23 +0200 Subject: Doppelseitiger Artikel über das Wasserauto in AUTO-Bild Nr. 42, 20. Oktober 2000!!! Am 20. Oktober 2000 hat das Wasserstoff-Zeitalter begonnen! Denn wenn selbst eine der rennomiertesten deutschen Auto-Zeitschriften mit 800.000 Auflage es wagt, das Unmögliche für möglich zu halten, ist das nicht ein eindeutiges Zeichen, daß das Eis der Ignoranz an allen Ecken und Enden zu brechen anfängt? Der Artikel kann nachgelesen werden unter www.wasserauto.de / Dingle / Auto-Bild Gruß, Ph. Mikas P.S.: Wer die CD-ROM bestellt hat und schon lange darauf wartet, wird entschädigt: Sie kommt mit der kompletten Wasserauto.de web site (für Offline-Browsing) inkl. aller Videos, dem Auto-Bild Artikel und auch der brandneuen ASF Videos über das Neutrino-Egg (siehe web site). Der neue Microsoft Mediaplayer 6.4 ist auch drauf. Wer noch nicht bestellt hat, kann das nachholen (wasserauto.de / CD-ROM). www.wasserauto.de - es fährt mit reinem Leitungswasser! ------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web http://www.mail2web.com/ Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: http://www.yourhosting.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 13:31:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA06587; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:30:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:30:54 -0700 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: <5d.23325f5.272356d1@aol.com> Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:30:09 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"2tdJO.0.mc1.-pVyv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17234 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Guys, thanks for the input. What I really, really, really want is some way of heating the trailer I live in up to a comfortable temperature that won't run my light bill through the roof. Currently, the place is heated by a heat pump, which if any of you have ever had to endure one, you know that the air they put out is luke warm at best. Last winter I kept the heat between 60-65F and damn near froze to death. Yeah, I know you can bundle up, but one can't wear a sweater or four in the shower! I had hoped that the Frenette device would allow me to have a cheap source of heat when I was home so that I didn't have to go around the house bundled up like I was heading out on some kind of arctic expedition. If ANYONE knows of anything that's fairly easy to build (I have access to a machine shop so I can pretty much make anything), that ain't expensive to build, doesn't suck up a lot of juice and puts out enough heat to warm up a 16 X 90 trailer, I'll be immensely grateful. I don't want to get rich off of anything, I'm not out to mass produce something, all I want is to not be a human ice cube this winter or have a light bill greater than 1/3rd of my paycheck, both things of which I experienced last winter. Brian Drake (Bmd2323@aol.com) ****** Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. ****** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 14:19:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA23174; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:19:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:19:14 -0700 Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:19:05 -0400 Message-Id: <200010212119.RAA18456@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Resent-Message-ID: <"nb64F2.0.xf5.IXWyv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17235 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater >I guess that I was remembering a 'composite' post and mixing all the posts >together. >Go ahead an use it! > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Michael T Huffman" >To: >Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 2:52 PM >Subject: Re: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater > > >> Al Sherman writes: >> >> >Have your considered using somehting like 'ferrofluid' instead of the oil >> and maybe applying a weak/oscillating magnetic field fo increase the >> internal friction? >> >> Hi Al, >> >> I guess you didn't read my post very well, but I've never tested my device >> with any oil. Ferrofluid is an excellent suggestion however, as the motor >> is probably giving off back EMF, which the Ferrofluid might just pick up >and >> convert to electrical currents. Do you mind if I share this idea with the >> rest of the FreeNRG Group? >> >> Knuke >> Michael T. Huffman >> Huffman Technology Company >> 1121 Dustin Drive >> The Villages, Florida 32159 >> (352)259-1276 >> knuke@LCIA.COM >> http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm >> >> > > Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 15:16:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA06263; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:15:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:15:51 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:16:43 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Message-ID: <39f31376.249048058@mail.midiowa.net> References: <5d.23325f5.272356d1@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <5d.23325f5.272356d1@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA06237 Resent-Message-ID: <"qDBZf1.0.mX1.MMXyv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17236 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Brian, On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:30:09 EDT, Bmd2323@aol.com wrote: >Guys, thanks for the input. What I really, really, really want is some way >of heating the trailer I live in up to a comfortable temperature that won't >run my light bill through the roof. So far, nobody's been able to find a cheap method that gets around the laws of physics (as we know them). By that I mean that a resistance heater is the cheapest way to use electricity to heat a relatively small space (your trailer). Far cheaper, for the moment, is heating oil, natural gas or propane. Even cheaper is wood if you have a good source. >Currently, the place is heated by a heat >pump, which if any of you have ever had to endure one, you know that the air >they put out is luke warm at best. A resistance heater booster for a heat pump is about the best you can do right now. >Last winter I kept the heat between >60-65F and damn near froze to death. Yeah, I know you can bundle up, but one >can't wear a sweater or four in the shower! I had hoped that the Frenette >device would allow me to have a cheap source of heat when I was home so that >I didn't have to go around the house bundled up like I was heading out on >some kind of arctic expedition. If ANYONE knows of anything that's fairly >easy to build (I have access to a machine shop so I can pretty much make >anything), that ain't expensive to build, doesn't suck up a lot of juice and >puts out enough heat to warm up a 16 X 90 trailer The most effective measures anyone can take in cold climates is to: 1) Seal the building as completely as possible so absolutely no air can pass in or out without your approval. :) Most buildings (and trailers) leak enough air to be equivalent to having two large windows open. 2) Once the sealing has been taken care of, add as much insulation as possible. (A reflective barrier is useful, too.) I've seen some people almost completely wrap their homes in plastic for the winter to prevent air leakage. It's a lot cheaper for most people than investing in better heaters. (BTW, a heat pump that uses a buried heat-mass system should be quite a bit more efficient than a heat pump that uses outside air as the heat-mass.) -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 16:24:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA24500; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:23:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:23:40 -0700 Message-ID: <39F22580.16E57D2@groupz.net> Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 19:23:44 -0400 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siWpfcUINhQ,x-ns2r2d09OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater References: <5d.23325f5.272356d1@aol.com> <39f31376.249048058@mail.midiowa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_qL9f3.0.j-5.yLYyv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17237 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Get a propane radiant heater....can point it at where you are and will warm your clothes up..which in turn warms you up. Propane, if you fill your own bottle, is cheaper then electricity. Also get a stocking type hat...wear it in house...will also help keep you warm.....and to bed.....I heat with wood...and often am to lazy to go out and get some...so gets cold here also. Am comfortable down to about 62 degrees...with radiant heater and hat... steve "Dean T. Miller" wrote: > > Hi Brian, > > On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:30:09 EDT, Bmd2323@aol.com wrote: > > >Guys, thanks for the input. What I really, really, really want is some way > >of heating the trailer I live in up to a comfortable temperature that won't > >run my light bill through the roof. > > So far, nobody's been able to find a cheap method that gets around the > laws of physics (as we know them). By that I mean that a resistance > heater is the cheapest way to use electricity to heat a relatively > small space (your trailer). > > Far cheaper, for the moment, is heating oil, natural gas or propane. > Even cheaper is wood if you have a good source. > > >Currently, the place is heated by a heat > >pump, which if any of you have ever had to endure one, you know that the air > >they put out is luke warm at best. > > A resistance heater booster for a heat pump is about the best you can > do right now. > > >Last winter I kept the heat between > >60-65F and damn near froze to death. Yeah, I know you can bundle up, but one > >can't wear a sweater or four in the shower! I had hoped that the Frenette > >device would allow me to have a cheap source of heat when I was home so that > >I didn't have to go around the house bundled up like I was heading out on > >some kind of arctic expedition. If ANYONE knows of anything that's fairly > >easy to build (I have access to a machine shop so I can pretty much make > >anything), that ain't expensive to build, doesn't suck up a lot of juice and > >puts out enough heat to warm up a 16 X 90 trailer > > The most effective measures anyone can take in cold climates is to: > > 1) Seal the building as completely as possible so absolutely no air > can pass in or out without your approval. :) Most buildings (and > trailers) leak enough air to be equivalent to having two large windows > open. > > 2) Once the sealing has been taken care of, add as much insulation as > possible. (A reflective barrier is useful, too.) > > I've seen some people almost completely wrap their homes in plastic > for the winter to prevent air leakage. It's a lot cheaper for most > people than investing in better heaters. > > (BTW, a heat pump that uses a buried heat-mass system should be quite > a bit more efficient than a heat pump that uses outside air as the > heat-mass.) > > -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 17:04:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA02131; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:04:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:04:18 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:03:40 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <7db4vsg4q58a81ojufcnbupt9cch37haha@4ax.com> References: <200010210929.FAA27233@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> In-Reply-To: <200010210929.FAA27233@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA02097 Resent-Message-ID: <"ph4RE2.0.3X.1yYyv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17238 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Michael T Huffman's message of Sat, 21 Oct 2000 05:29:12 -0400: [snip] >Sheldon Hughs showed me an interesting shear effect by using a certain >variation of the so called Griggs device geometry shortly after Griggs left >the Aqua Corporation that created vortices in the gap between the rotor and >the housing. It also increased the cavitation efficacy, so there were >"sweet spots" in the speed range with that device that were coincidental due >to the size of the gap and the internal pressure, but you could get the same >effect with any rotor speed over a given amount simply by adjusting the >internal pressure until you got the bubbles to collapse. Once the device >was up to temp, and the internal pressures and the flow rates were adjusted >properly, it would run in OU mode for long periods of time. [snip] Now you have hit the nail on the head. When proper cavitation is attained, the temperatures in the bubbles should be high enough to strip some hydrogen atoms from the molecules. These H atoms can then form hydrinos according to 3 x H -> 2 x H+ + 2X e- + Hydrino The hydrinos formed can then further react with one another, resulting in the release of even more energy. Of course, this process works much better if multiple Mills catalysts are also present. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 17:11:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA05003; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:10:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:10:46 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:10:11 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <7nb4vss1prkug77qae2vjk2eav2c4mqf1h@4ax.com> References: <84.c49954d.27224b1f@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <84.c49954d.27224b1f@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA04967 Resent-Message-ID: <"4i9Ez1.0.3E1.62Zyv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17239 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Bmd2323@aol.com's message of Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:27:59 EDT: >Michael, >What I've built is a rough prototype to prove the concept before I actually >spend the time to build a full blown version. According to the information I >have, all that really is supposed to matter is that you have a 1/8" clearance >between the sides of the two drums and a 1/4" clearance between the bottom. >I did that, and set the puppy up in a vertical milling machine, using the >milling machine to spin the inner drum. As for sealing, what I did was >basically have a slightly larger section of the inner drum which rested over >the inner section. Not a perfect seal, of course, but based on what I'd read >it should have been enough to get the thing to work. > >The dimensions of the outer cylinder are: >1.75" Dia. >.19" Thick wall >3.5" Length with the inside depth of the tube being 2.25" > >The dimensions of the inner cylinder are: >1.239" Dia >2" Length If I haven't miscalculated, these measurements result in a spacing between the cylinders closer to 1/16 than to 1/8 in. [snip] However I suspect that there are two critical factors involved in getting this device to produce "OU". First, the oil used should preferably contain some Mills catalysts (you might like to try adding some "Molly grease", which I believe contains Molybdenum), and secondly the rotation rate should be adjusted to achieve maximum cavitation. If it works, let me know, I want one for the same reason! ;) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 18:43:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA28215; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 18:43:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 18:43:20 -0700 Message-ID: <002101c03bc9$1674ea00$3ad4ddd1@x2001> From: "2001" To: Cc: References: <5d.23325f5.272356d1@aol.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 18:40:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"bbmoB3.0.mu6.sOayv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17240 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Brian, Relating to your request for a cheap way to heat your house, here is something that you may find of interest. Use hydrogen in a gas heater (after changing the orifice to work with H). Graham, who is on the energy21 list, is working on his "water car" which he expects to be ready any month now. He will then supply the plans to build a hydrogen electrolysis unit which will use only water as fuel, split into H and O. The car runs on gasoline at startup and at shutdown, apparently to give the H cell time to start producing and (at shutdown) to get rid of any water vapor which would rust the engine and exhaust system. So you may be able to heat your house with water! This is one of the main reasons that Graham is doing this. I have heard that there may be some traces of radioactive hydrogen (or something like that) produced as a byproduct when splitting water. So it would be good to check this out. On the other hand, since natural gas heaters are not considered safe indoors (unless vented to the outside), maybe hydrogen would be much safer. Bil ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 1:30 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater > Guys, thanks for the input. What I really, really, really want is some way > of heating the trailer I live in up to a comfortable temperature that won't > run my light bill through the roof. Currently, the place is heated by a heat > pump, which if any of you have ever had to endure one, you know that the air > they put out is luke warm at best. Last winter I kept the heat between > 60-65F and damn near froze to death. Yeah, I know you can bundle up, but one > can't wear a sweater or four in the shower! I had hoped that the Frenette > device would allow me to have a cheap source of heat when I was home so that > I didn't have to go around the house bundled up like I was heading out on > some kind of arctic expedition. If ANYONE knows of anything that's fairly > easy to build (I have access to a machine shop so I can pretty much make > anything), that ain't expensive to build, doesn't suck up a lot of juice and > puts out enough heat to warm up a 16 X 90 trailer, I'll be immensely > grateful. I don't want to get rich off of anything, I'm not out to mass > produce something, all I want is to not be a human ice cube this winter or > have a light bill greater than 1/3rd of my paycheck, both things of which I > experienced last winter. > > Brian Drake > (Bmd2323@aol.com) > > ****** Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste > good with ketchup. ****** > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 22:29:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA15021; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:29:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:29:01 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 01:28:52 -0400 Message-Id: <200010220528.BAA04344@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater Resent-Message-ID: <"dgWEE3.0.cg3.Sidyv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17241 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Brian, I have to agree with Dean about the economics of your situation. Right now, even a cavitation heater cannot beat the heat output of a gas or propane heater for the money. I think trailers must have been invented by the utility companies, because they are not much more energy efficient than a pup tent. I've lived in them, and looked at the construction, and have just had to shake my head. One thing that Dean forgot to mention regarding trailers is the skirting. If they don't have that, then the wind will whip underneath them, and rob the heat leaking out from the floor. Even pup tents don't have that problem. I've seen various schemes for insulating them better, but they all required dismantling them to a large degree, and the results still won't be satifactory. The only really free sources of electical energy that I can think of that you can build cheaply would be a passive solar collector with a Freznel lens, or a windmill driving a car alternator. The latter can power any cheap, resistance coil space heater without problems I think, someone correct me if I'm wrong about that, and they work at night as long as there is wind. Those resistance coil heaters are not too picky about voltage, line frequencies, etc., so as long as the windmill blades are turning, you've got some free juice to work with. I've seen a set of plans on the internet for one of these things that looked like it was really easy to build, and all the parts could be bought at any hardware store, but I lost the URL for the website and about 3000 others one day. The website was on one of the Y2K webrings, that's all I can remember about it. I admire the fact that you have put together a rotary device, even a small test model, and I would encourage you to keep playing with it just in case you do discover something anomolous. You never know. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 22:43:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA18209; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:43:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:43:17 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 01:43:13 -0400 Message-Id: <200010220543.BAA07558@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater Resent-Message-ID: <"SQvH62.0.NS4.rvdyv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17242 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robin writes: >Now you have hit the nail on the head. When proper cavitation is attained, >the temperatures in the bubbles should be high enough to strip some hydrogen >atoms from the molecules. These H atoms can then form hydrinos according to > >3 x H -> 2 x H+ + 2X e- + Hydrino > >The hydrinos formed can then further react with one another, resulting in >the release of even more energy. >Of course, this process works much better if multiple Mills catalysts are >also present. Hi Robin, I'm a bit more inclined to think that this may be possible after reading Murray's post on the Vortex Group regarding the Rydberg orbital state. Bob Price had suggested that the electrons were being stripped off of the H nucleus as early as the 70's from the reports that I have on the Schaeffer device tests. Perhaps a Mills type catalyst was present in the steel that they were using without them being aware of it. I'm still gathering stuff, by the way. The chemist was closed for the weekend. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 22:53:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA21292; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:53:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:53:17 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 16:52:41 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <200010220543.BAA07558@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> In-Reply-To: <200010220543.BAA07558@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA21273 Resent-Message-ID: <"5mSHN2.0.bC5.C3eyv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17243 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Michael T Huffman's message of Sun, 22 Oct 2000 01:43:13 -0400: [snip] >I'm a bit more inclined to think that this may be possible after reading >Murray's post on the Vortex Group regarding the Rydberg orbital state. Bob Perhaps you could explain the connection you see between that post, and Mills Hydrino theory? >Price had suggested that the electrons were being stripped off of the H >nucleus as early as the 70's from the reports that I have on the Schaeffer >device tests. Perhaps a Mills type catalyst was present in the steel that >they were using without them being aware of it. I'm still gathering stuff, >by the way. The chemist was closed for the weekend. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 00:49:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA08256; Sun, 22 Oct 2000 00:49:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 00:49:42 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 03:49:37 -0400 Message-Id: <200010220749.DAA12577@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Preliminary test results on Frenette Friction heater Resent-Message-ID: <"arzf93.0.q02.Lmfyv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17244 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robin writes: >In reply to Michael T Huffman's message of Sun, 22 Oct 2000 01:43:13 -0400: >[snip] >>I'm a bit more inclined to think that this may be possible after reading >>Murray's post on the Vortex Group regarding the Rydberg orbital state. Bob > >Perhaps you could explain the connection you see between that post, and >Mills Hydrino theory? Hi Robin, Sure, I'll post the article that I am referring to first, so that we are all on the same page. ************************** PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News Number 500 August 31, 2000 by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben Stein NUCLEAR ENERGY USED TO EXCITE ATOMS. A multinational team of physicists has observed for the first time a process in which the energy freed up by a nucleus relaxing to a lower state is used to excite an electron in the surrounding atom to a higher energy state. Normally atomic and nuclear phenomena are separate, mainly because the energies typifying atomic transitions (an electron moving from one quantum state to another) is measured in electrons volts (eV) or less, whereas analogous nuclear transitions are typically on the order of thousands or millions of eV. But for some heavy ions, which have been relieved of many their electrons (making the attraction between the nucleus and the remaining unshielded electrons all that much more powerful), the spacing between atomic states can actually exceed the spacing between nuclear states. In the case of a Bordeaux-Gif sur Yvette-Darmstadt- Orsay-Manchester-Caen-Stanford experiment (Jean-Francois Chemin, Center for Nuclear Studies at Bordeaux-Gradignan, chemin@cenbg.in2p3.fr, 011-33-55-712-0874) conducted at the GANIL accelerator in France, tellurium atoms, with 47 or even 48 electrons removed, are smashed into a target. In these collisions, energy from the nucleus serves to promote a deeply bound electron (in the 1s electronic, or "K shell" state) into a barely bound "Rydberg" orbit. This observation has extraordinary implications. It means that energy can pass resonantly between the nuclear and electronic parts of the atom by a resonant process similar to that which operates between an inductor and a capacitor in an LC circuit. Furthermore, this transfer of energy is suspected to play a role in the anomalous lifetime of certain nuclear species; thus the concept of nuclear lifetime, normally thought to be immune from atomic effects, has to be modified to take into account charge states of the atom. If this is true then inside stars, where atoms often exist in an ionized state, the lifetime of various nuclear species might well be affected by this process of internal conversion between atomic states, thus modifying the chain by which elements are synthesized in the stellar environment. (Carreyre et al., Physical Review C, 1 Sept; see also Japanese work on this subject, Kishimoto et al. Physical Review Letters, 28 August: Select Articles.) ********************* Although the Mills theory deals primarily with the H atom in the presence of a catalyst, and he disavows (to the best of my knowledge) that a lower ground state can be achieved with heavier nuclii, the above mentioned article would serve as experimental evidence perhaps that a) a lower than normally thought possible ground state can be achieved, and b) that it doesn't necessarily have to be with only an H atom. This is good news, as it allows for more flexibility or credibility to some of the nuclear decay rate acceleration reports, and it does lend a bit more credence to the Mills reports, which I have not had much reason to believe. I realize that the both the theories and the protocols may differ from what Mills has set forth, but I don't think Mills has all the theoretical answers by a long shot, nor do I think he has a lock on all the protocols. If it is experimentally possible to strip away some of the electrons from the outer shells, and achieve an energy release in the MeV range as a result of an electron dropping into a lower than K shell state, then it opens up a lot more possibilities than Mills' Hydrino theory, even though it is similar regarding the existence of a stable sub K shell electron state. Of course, you realize that I am basically a bilge rat, so my opinions on matters such as these are rightly qualified as being only that. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 13:45:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA29231; Sun, 22 Oct 2000 13:45:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 13:45:13 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01c03c28$4bcc1c00$bee5b5d0@a9o0z0> From: "Alik S" To: Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 13:02:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"LUGe53.0.a87.P7ryv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17245 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: MIT plasma carburator About a year ago someone posted on this or similar weird-energy list info about a plasma based fuel processor of some sort that was developed at MIT and may have been a version of GEET. Somehow I lost that email, and wanted to ask if anyone had any info on that unit. Thanks Alik S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 14:14:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA05592; Sun, 22 Oct 2000 14:14:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 14:14:09 -0700 From: Alan Schneider To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: MIT plasma carburator Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:13:43 +1100 Message-ID: References: <000a01c03c28$4bcc1c00$bee5b5d0@a9o0z0> In-Reply-To: <000a01c03c28$4bcc1c00$bee5b5d0@a9o0z0> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA05568 Resent-Message-ID: <"bHBx6.0.HN1.XYryv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17246 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 22 Oct 2000 13:02:11 -0000, "Alik S" wrote: >plasma based fuel processor of some sort that was developed at MIT >and may have been a version of GEET. >Thanks >Alik S. Go to http://www2.psfc.mit.edu/plasmatech/plasma_technology.html and follow the link that says "Plasmatron" Cheers, Alan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 15:53:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA02417; Sun, 22 Oct 2000 15:52:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 15:52:30 -0700 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 18:51:50 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"2QJv7.0.cb.k-syv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17247 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design Okay guys, here's the compliation of what I've got so far: 1. Buy/modify a flame based heater 2. Modify the heat pump 3. Bundle up 4. Add some kind of exotic compound between the rotors 5. Mummify the place 6. Build some kind of auxillary power supply 7. Find some way to increase the cavitation in the set up 8. Get a hot blonde for the winter (advice from a friend not posted to the message group). 9. Recheck the unit to make sure its built properly/build it exactly to the specs listed in the patent. Let me handle these in order. 1. Flame based heater -- Pretty much out of the question. They're either very expensive or the necessary modifications needed to the trailer or the unit are so extensive that it'd be July before I got them done, by which time there'd be no point. Not to mention I would have spent all the money needed for the project on heating this beer can. 2. Modify the heat pump -- Also out. Expensive, and I live in a trailer park, so the buried mass option is right out, no matter how cheap it may be. 3. Bundle up -- Done that, and didn't like it. Besides, not entirely practical where showering comes into play. 4. Exotic compound -- Okay, where do I get them, how much do they cost, and how toxic are they? 5. Mummification -- Some of the things mentioned (skirting) have already been done, others I can do to an extent, but to really insulate the place is more trouble and expense than its worth. Have considered gluing aluminum foil to cardboard and sticking that on the inside walls, but will make me look like that nut Mel Gibson played in "Conspiracy Theory." 6. Aux. Power -- Solar's out of my price range, and the windmill, while cheap is out as I live in a trailer park and the land lord would have kittens about my sticking such a thing outside the place. 7. Increase cavitation -- Okay, so how do I do that? 8. Hot blonde -- The nicest choice out of the bunch, expensive, but definately worth it. However, it is subject to chance for success, and let's face it, if I had great success with women, I wouldn't be spending my time on this list! 9. Modify/follow patent exactly -- Okay, will have to see. I think that the spacing between the rotors is exactly 1/8, but my measurements might have been off. Really hate to go to the extreme of building it to the specs of the patent if it ain't going to work as advertised. Have I missed anything? I wanted to build the Frenette heater because it was cheap (the parts I'm using came from a scrap metal pile), fairly easy to do, and efficient. So, it looks like I'm basically SOL. Ah, well, I always knew there was a reason I hated physics. Well, thanks for the advice. I'll tinker with the thing for a bit longer and see what happens. Will post any results I have. Brian Drake (Bmd2323@aol.com) ****** Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. ****** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 19:27:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA07166; Sun, 22 Oct 2000 19:26:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 19:26:19 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.253.228.144] From: "Mehmet Boysal" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 02:25:48 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Oct 2000 02:25:48.0434 (UTC) FILETIME=[8E2C5720:01C03C98] Resent-Message-ID: <"bDNcr3.0.jl1.B7wyv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17248 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Is any one lives in San Francisco? <> _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 21:51:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA17355; Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:51:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:51:28 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 04:52:31 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Message-ID: <39f6be17.358282090@mail.midiowa.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA17324 Resent-Message-ID: <"J9dCu.0.4F4.EFyyv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17249 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Brian, Yup. Living in a trailer in the colder states can be tough. On Sun, 22 Oct 2000 18:51:50 EDT, Bmd2323@aol.com wrote: >1. Flame based heater -- Pretty much out of the question. They're either >very expensive or the necessary modifications needed to the trailer or the >unit are so extensive that it'd be July before I got them done, by which time >there'd be no point. Not to mention I would have spent all the money needed >for the project on heating this beer can. There are several temperature-controlled **ventless** propane heaters on the market that are reasonably safe. The only thing you'd have to do is run a hose from a small outside propane tank (100 pound tank) to the inside heater. These heaters cost about $150 (as I recall) and the propane tank about $100 (depends a whole lot on where you live). Of course, you have to be very careful to keep anything flammable away from the heater when in use. An advantage -- they don't have to be permanently installed. I have two of them for emergency use that have optional bases to stand them anywhere. (The heaters are about 15 inches wide, 25 inches tall and 8 inches thick and produce about 20,000 BTU -- which would make your trailer toasty in almost any weather.) Another option I forgot to mention is the kerosene heater. A small one -- about 10,000 BTU -- should be fine. They cost about $100-$200 depending on options. If it's the only heater for your trailer, you'd probably spend less than $10/week for kerosene to run it. The larger units are used to heat houses. However, only the biggest, most expensive, units are thermostatically controlled. These heaters should be refilled outside (for safety -- but I never did when I used them). The 10,000 BTU size is okay to carry when filled, while the 22,000 BTU units are rather awkward. >5. Mummification -- Some of the things mentioned (skirting) have already been >done, others I can do to an extent, but to really insulate the place is more >trouble and expense than its worth. Have considered gluing aluminum foil to >cardboard and sticking that on the inside walls, but will make me look like >that nut Mel Gibson played in "Conspiracy Theory." You could get some "space blankets" -- sandwiches of aluminized mylar -- and tape them on your inside walls. They'd be easy to store and are reusable. But make sure you tape them around all sides so air won't be able to pass behind them. Since most of your heat loss is probably in your ceiling, they could be used to cover your ceiling, too. Even better for your ceiling would be to cut panels of 1" styrofoam insulation to fit. >8. Hot blonde -- The nicest choice out of the bunch, expensive, but >definately worth it. However, it is subject to chance for success, and let's >face it, if I had great success with women, I wouldn't be spending my time on >this list! Definitely the most expensive option -- even more expensive than buying a house. :) However, hot blondes are fun for only brief periods of time, while this list goes on forever. :) -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 23:37:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA07849; Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:37:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:37:13 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:36:37 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA07826 Resent-Message-ID: <"nBlbo.0.Yw1.Pozyv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17250 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Bmd2323@aol.com's message of Sun, 22 Oct 2000 18:51:50 EDT: [snip] >4. Exotic compound -- Okay, where do I get them, how much do they cost, and >how toxic are they? If you ask nicely, you may be able to get some second hand molly-grease from your local garage for nothing. Just dissolve it in the oil if possible. You shouldn't need much. Explain what you are doing, and why. They may help, and if it works, they may want one themselves. (Dissolve it before adding to the device, so that you can see if it will or won't dissolve). Don't eat it, and wash your hands when done. :) [snip] >7. Increase cavitation -- Okay, so how do I do that? Play with the rotation speed. Maybe you can use a variable speed electric drill to find the right speed. You can also try powering the motor you are currently using, with a light dimmer. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 23 00:16:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA18067; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 00:16:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 00:16:13 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <74.420e681.27253f8d@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 03:15:25 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: Unknown sub 30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA17962 Resent-Message-ID: <"Fp1Er1.0.qP4.xM-yv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17251 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Tests of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Processor Dear All, Tests by J-L Naudin of a retroffited lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Processor October 21th, 2000, I was pleased to test myself and this for the first time, a lawn mower been driven by a 4 strokes engine retrofitted with the Multi-Fuels Processor invented by Paul Pantone. All the parts used are standard and come from stores of do-it-yourself and/or hypermarkets ( plumbing departement ). The parts were selected to be more closer to the original plan published freely by Pantone on the Internet network the 11-11-99. The bubbler is a simple metal can of 5 liters. The assembly of the unit was carried out so that the machine can be used in real conditions of use (shearing of grass). One break-in period of at least 20 minutes with pure gasoline ( 95LL ) is necessary. The mower was placed so that the axis of the endothermic engine (2) is aligned with the North-South terrestrial magnetic axis. The hot side of the reactor chamber (engine exhaust) is placed towards the North, and this in accordance with the recommendations of Paul Pantone. After this break-in period, the tests of the mower started. A first successful test was carried out with pure gasoline 95LL, then a second test successful with a mixture of water 50% and gasoline 50%. A test more surprising were carried out with 75% of WATER and 25% of gasoline ( 95 LL ) : the retrofitted lawn mower runs very well in real condition of use... The exhaust gas are very clean and not very odorous. On 10-22-00, I fully confirm that this lawn mower retroffited with the GEET Multi-Fuels Processor is able to run very well with 75% of water and 25% of gasoline. You will find in my web site all diagrams, photos and videos about this tests at :  http://jlnlabs.terrashare.com Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin Email:Jnaudin509@aol.com Web: http://go.to/jlnlabs.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 23 06:19:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA28444; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 06:18:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 06:18:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001023081437.00954820@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:18:05 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Is any one lives in San Francisco? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"xSyw21.0.Iy6.Vg3zv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17252 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mehmet:

Living in Texas now but I grew up in San Mateo (about 15 mile south of San Francisco)
If you are unable to locate a local I may be able to help.



At 02:25 AM 10/23/00 +0000, you wrote:
<<Hi all
I just moved to San Francisco till next May or June, and I wonder
is any of you live here folks?

Send me direct email, thanks.

Mehmet.>>


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_________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 23 15:26:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA29684; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:25:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:25:18 -0700 Content-return: allowed Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:25:02 -0700 From: "Merkley, Steve" Subject: RE: [FG]: Tests of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C03D40.167326E0" Resent-Message-ID: <"cDN0Q2.0.jF7.DhBzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17253 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C03D40.167326E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Mr. Naudin, Congratulations on your test, the idea of being able to use 25%fuel and 75%water to run your lawnmower seems to be a technical breakthrough of the highest magnitude. The implications are staggering. I am a late comer to the overunity arena and it is all very fascinating to me. My initial thought is, with the obvious cleaner air factors involved, why hasn't the EPA and the Sierra Club and every green tree lover in the world been knocking your door down to see that this technology gets to market? I know why the oil companies are not interested, in fact, I hope your life is not threatened. With the internet and information explosion, I don't think you have to worry about that. My next question is, will we soon be able to fit this technology onto automobile engines? Anyway, it was exciting to read about your success and hope to hear good things from you in the future. Steve Merkley Salt Lake City, Utah -----Original Message----- From: JNaudin509@aol.com [SMTP:JNaudin509@aol.com] Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 1:15 AM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Tests of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Processor Dear All, Tests by J-L Naudin of a retroffited lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Processor October 21th, 2000, I was pleased to test myself and this for the first time, a lawn mower been driven by a 4 strokes engine retrofitted with the Multi-Fuels Processor invented by Paul Pantone. All the parts used are standard and come from stores of do-it-yourself and/or hypermarkets ( plumbing departement ). The parts were selected to be more closer to the original plan published freely by Pantone on the Internet network the 11-11-99. The bubbler is a simple metal can of 5 liters. The assembly of the unit was carried out so that the machine can be used in real conditions of use (shearing of grass). One break-in period of at least 20 minutes with pure gasoline ( 95LL ) is necessary. The mower was placed so that the axis of the endothermic engine (2) is aligned with the North-South terrestrial magnetic axis. The hot side of the reactor chamber (engine exhaust) is placed towards the North, and this in accordance with the recommendations of Paul Pantone. After this break-in period, the tests of the mower started. A first successful test was carried out with pure gasoline 95LL, then a second test successful with a mixture of water 50% and gasoline 50%. A test more surprising were carried out with 75% of WATER and 25% of gasoline ( 95 LL ) : the retrofitted lawn mower runs very well in real condition of use... The exhaust gas are very clean and not very odorous. On 10-22-00, I fully confirm that this lawn mower retroffited with the GEET Multi-Fuels Processor is able to run very well with 75% of water and 25% of gasoline. You will find in my web site all diagrams, photos and videos about this tests at : http://jlnlabs.terrashare.com Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin Email:Jnaudin509@aol.com Web: http://go.to/jlnlabs.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01C03D40.167326E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [FG]: Tests of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels = Processor

Hello Mr. Naudin,

Congratulations on your test, the idea = of being able to use 25%fuel and 75%water to run your lawnmower seems = to be a technical breakthrough of the highest magnitude.  The = implications are staggering.  I am a late comer to the overunity = arena and it is all very fascinating to me.  My initial thought = is, with the obvious cleaner air factors involved, why hasn't the EPA = and the Sierra Club and every green tree lover in the world been = knocking your door down to see that this technology gets to = market?  I know why the oil companies are not interested, in fact, = I hope your life is not threatened.  With the internet and = information explosion, I don't think you have to worry about = that.  My next question is, will we soon be able to fit this = technology onto automobile engines?  Anyway, it was exciting to = read about your success and hope to hear good things from you in the = future.

Steve Merkley
Salt Lake City, Utah

    -----Original = Message-----
    From:   = JNaudin509@aol.com [SMTP:JNaudin509@aol.com]
    Sent:   Monday, October 23, 2000 1:15 AM
    To:     freenrg-l@eskimo.com
    Subject:       = [FG]: Tests of a lawn mower with the = GEET Multi-Fuels Processor

    Dear All,

    Tests by J-L Naudin of a retroffited = lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels
    Processor

    October 21th, 2000, I was pleased to = test myself and this for the first time,
    a lawn mower been driven by a 4 = strokes engine retrofitted with the
    Multi-Fuels Processor invented by = Paul Pantone. All the parts used are
    standard and come from stores of = do-it-yourself and/or hypermarkets (
    plumbing departement ). The parts = were selected to be more closer to the
    original plan published freely by = Pantone on the Internet network the
    11-11-99. The bubbler is a simple = metal can of 5 liters. The assembly of the
    unit was carried out so that the = machine can be used in real conditions of
    use (shearing of grass).
    One break-in period of at least 20 = minutes with pure gasoline ( 95LL ) is
    necessary. The mower was placed so = that the axis of the endothermic engine
    (2) is aligned with the North-South = terrestrial magnetic axis. The hot side
    of the reactor chamber (engine = exhaust) is placed towards the North, and this
    in accordance with the = recommendations of Paul Pantone. After this break-in
    period, the tests of the mower = started.
    A first successful test was carried = out with pure gasoline 95LL, then a
    second test successful with a mixture = of water 50% and gasoline 50%.

    A test more surprising were carried = out
    with 75% of WATER and 25% of gasoline = ( 95 LL ) :
    the retrofitted lawn mower runs very = well in real condition of use...

    The exhaust gas are very clean and not = very odorous.

    On 10-22-00, I fully confirm that this = lawn mower retroffited with the GEET
    Multi-Fuels Processor is able to run = very well with 75% of water and 25% of
    gasoline.

    You will find in my web site all = diagrams, photos and videos about this tests
    at :

    =A0http://jlnlabs.terrashare.com

    Best Regards

    Jean-Louis Naudin
    Email:Jnaudin509@aol.com
    Web: http://go.to/jlnlabs.com

------_=_NextPart_001_01C03D40.167326E0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 23 15:45:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA04626; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:44:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:44:55 -0700 Message-Id: <200010232244.e9NMipd12869@home.karahalios.org> Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:44:51 -0700 Reply-To: Alex@Karahalios.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.337) From: Alex Karahalios To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v337) Subject: RE: [FG]: Tests of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA04584 Resent-Message-ID: <"E4HCq3.0.781.czBzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17254 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Monday, October 23, 2000, at 03:25 PM, Merkley, Steve wrote: > My next question is, will we soon be able to fit this technology onto automobile engines?  > Anyway, it was exciting to read about your success and hope to hear good things from you in > the future. > Steve, As Jean-Louis mentions on his web page the company that holds the patent for GEET (GEET International) can be found at http://www.geet.net. They have several auto engine retrofits available. They are located in Holladay, Utah. Alex Karahalios From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 23 17:01:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA02675; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:00:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:00:51 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39F47ED2.40B0264F@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:09:22 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tests of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-0HYg3.0.if.p4Dzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17255 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > "Merkley, Steve" wrote: > > Hello Mr. Naudin, > > Congratulations on your test, the idea of being able to use 25%fuel > and 75%water to run your lawnmower seems to be a technical > breakthrough of the highest magnitude. The implications are > staggering. I am a late comer to the overunity arena and it is all > very fascinating to me. My initial thought is, with the obvious > cleaner air factors involved, why hasn't the EPA and the Sierra Club > and every green tree lover in the world been knocking your door down > to see that this technology gets to market? I know why the oil > companies are not interested, in fact, I hope your life is not > threatened. With the internet and information explosion, I don't > think you have to worry about that. My next question is, will we soon > be able to fit this technology onto automobile engines? Anyway, it > was exciting to read about your success and hope to hear good things > from you in the future. > > Steve Merkley > Salt Lake City, Utah > Question is.... Does the engine run as long as it would with 100% gas? I mean, how do we know the gas mileage has improved? I mean, with a mix of 1/4 gas, it may only run 1/4 as long, no net increase in fuel efficency... :) Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 23 18:11:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA26308; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:03:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:03:36 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.253.227.210] From: "Mehmet Boysal" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tests of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:03:01 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Oct 2000 01:03:02.0052 (UTC) FILETIME=[28645640:01C03D56] Resent-Message-ID: <"ey_9R.0.zQ6.e_Dzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17256 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi all I see two kinds of people on this list! 1-Generous, loving, sharing constantly trying to make an improvement on anything and let the whole word know about it. 2-Doubting folks! Why, why do they inject so much negativity into this list and try to discredit inventors? their inventions Why? Is it because they can't do it? Or is it because they get paid by oil companies? They did the same thing with the recent announcement of: Motionless Electromagnetic Generator: By Thomas Bearden and 4 other scientist. There was one that attack and try to put down Motionless Electromagnetic Generator invention. This is what J. Naudin said: A test more surprising were carried out with 75% of WATER and 25% of gasoline ( 95 LL ) : the retrofitted lawn mower runs very well in real condition of use... I believe honest and positive people are far more in greater numbers on the earth, then those who don't want these inventions to come out. Keep up the great work all who are honest and truthfull and working againts every possible challenges to make energy machines more efficient may you be mightly empowered every day and achive all, and so called: "impossible." too. Just like what John Worrel Keely did. And those who speak of darkness, doubt, negativity, and only enjoys to discredit inventions and inventors Let them live in the world they creat and enjoy. Mehmet.>> > > "Merkley, Steve" wrote: > > > > Hello Mr. Naudin, > > > > Congratulations on your test, the idea of being able to use 25%fuel > > and 75%water to run your lawnmower seems to be a technical > > breakthrough of the highest magnitude. The implications are > > staggering. I am a late comer to the overunity arena and it is all > > very fascinating to me. My initial thought is, with the obvious > > cleaner air factors involved, why hasn't the EPA and the Sierra Club > > and every green tree lover in the world been knocking your door down > > to see that this technology gets to market? I know why the oil > > companies are not interested, in fact, I hope your life is not > > threatened. With the internet and information explosion, I don't > > think you have to worry about that. My next question is, will we soon > > be able to fit this technology onto automobile engines? Anyway, it > > was exciting to read about your success and hope to hear good things > > from you in the future. > > > > Steve Merkley > > Salt Lake City, Utah > > > > Question is.... > > Does the engine run as long as it would with 100% gas? > > I mean, how do we know the gas mileage has improved? > > I mean, with a mix of 1/4 gas, it may only run 1/4 as long, no net >increase in fuel efficency... :) > > Daniel Joyce > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 23 18:25:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA02866; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:22:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:22:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:22:43 -0400 Message-Id: <200010240122.VAA22852@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design Resent-Message-ID: <"bFqFT1.0.gi.mHEzv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17257 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ahoy! Maybe you could power an alternator with one of those GEET setups on a lawnmower engine. You would probably have to have it run inside your house to keep the water from freezing, but you could run an exhaust hose to a modified window. Anybody know offhand how much wattage a generic car alternator can put out? On first blush, it sounds like a reasonable idea, anyway. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 23 19:07:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA21258; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:05:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:05:49 -0700 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: <5b.cf54b14.27264850@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:05:04 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"yjQzq3.0._B5.yvEzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17258 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Well, did some rechecking and I made the inner rotor too large, so I'll have to correct that as the clearance is nowhere near 1/8, that might correct things. As for the GEET setup, I know one can modify an alternator to put out household 120 V, but frankly, I haven't seen enough of the GEET stuff to convince me that its legit. (Not that I've seen a whole heck of a lot of it.) Somebody, somewhere, had posted something detailing the GEET stuff and I just skimmed it, but it seemed to me (and I may be mistaken on this) that it either was incredibly complicated or expensive. Don't remember which, and as I said before, I could be totally wrong about that. Brian Drake (Bmd2323@aol.com) ****** Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. ****** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 23 19:26:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA28932; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:22:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:22:10 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001023203115.00c54e50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:25:16 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"nQYQf2.0.z37.H9Fzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17259 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Commented below Okay guys, here's the compliation of what I've got so far: 1. Buy/modify a flame based heater 2. Modify the heat pump 3. Bundle up 4. Add some kind of exotic compound between the rotors 5. Mummify the place 6. Build some kind of auxillary power supply 7. Find some way to increase the cavitation in the set up 8. Get a hot blonde for the winter (advice from a friend not posted to the message group). 9. Recheck the unit to make sure its built properly/build it exactly to the specs listed in the patent. <> Have I missed anything? I wanted to build the Frenette heater because it was cheap (the parts I'm using came from a scrap metal pile), fairly easy to do, and efficient. So, it looks like I'm basically SOL. Ah, well, I always knew there was a reason I hated physics. Bryan: Move to Mexico :-) Seriously ... This winter I really won't care how cold it gets because I am living in a brick house that is set into a hillside with a forced air gas heater and a wood burning fire place. I don't think people in the group understand what you are trying to do. Lets face it trailer live is a bit** too hot in the summer .. too cold in the winter. too small the rest of the time... ben there, done that, don't never wana go back. As for bundling up I recommend that, as well as several key tricks that you should know about. here you can benefit from my bad experiances. As insulation is out of the question (not to mention pointless) try these tricks for size. Most trailers are poorly fitted together. (at least the ones that I have lived in.) find some clear plastic and packing tape and seal up the windows really tight. A plastic sheet stretched over a window (from wall to wall) can serve as a formidable thermal barmier. Mobile home windows also leak so before you cover the window seal all of the seams with packing tape. Duct tape will only dry out and fall off and if you use clear packing tape the window is still a window. Next for the doors. Do not cheap out here its important. If possible use only one door and seal the other one with tape. Go the your nearest home improvement center and get some foam weather striping. (you will need enough to line two doors.) Also get an expanding rubber seal for the bottom of your door. That two inch gap is a case of pneumonia waiting to happen. You will need a staple gun for the rubber seal. Around the back of your trailer there is usually a utility access door for the water heater and furnace. Use the foam wether striping here also. seal it up real good and tight. Now there might be a vent in the door. if you have any gas appliances do not cover the vent. (trust me) Otherwise go ahead and seal that up too. The $40 or so you spend on supplies can save you several hundred in utilities in one season The sooner you get to work the better. As for the list. I apologize that nobody took the time to explain that there are NO working over unity energy devices. This is actually what many of us are doing here. Searching for the new energy. The claims of 3 to 1 energy output are bunk. There are dozens of big cash offers out there for proof of OU. Nobody has claimed even one of them. There is a credo of conservation... You can't win You can't break even You can't get out of the game We are still searching. Please don't hold any of this against the group. The intended help was all good hearted. As scientists we sometimes get carried away on the research and loose sight of the goal. Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 23 19:28:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA31557; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:26:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:26:16 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:25:38 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <6ns9vs0ak4sh6frrlmq24cvfebnu7a1n0h@4ax.com> References: <5b.cf54b14.27264850@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <5b.cf54b14.27264850@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA31455 Resent-Message-ID: <"N5bpK1.0.zi7.7DFzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17260 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Bmd2323@aol.com's message of Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:05:04 EDT: [snip] >convince me that its legit. (Not that I've seen a whole heck of a lot of >it.) Somebody, somewhere, had posted something detailing the GEET stuff and >I just skimmed it, but it seemed to me (and I may be mistaken on this) that >it either was incredibly complicated or expensive. Don't remember which, and >as I said before, I could be totally wrong about that. [snip] You can find GEET on the web at www.geet.com . Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 23 21:06:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA11367; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:05:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:05:32 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:04:49 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown sub 148 Resent-Message-ID: <"fR0RN1.0.Sn2.CgGzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17261 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Is this possible? If so, maybe a breakthru! Hello all, Please look at the drawing I have placed on this temporary web page ( http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/LAFONTERESEARCHGROUP.html ) and see if you think this possible: Can the air core coil and the ferrite core coil shown in the picture be configured so that their inductive time constants are identical and that their cemf thru this time constant is equal at all times also. I am thinking the number of windings can be reduced in the ferrite core coil to match the two coils "induction profiles" as a starting point. Another idea I have is to have a large number of coils with a small amount of ferrite each so the change per coil is smaller. This matching is necessary for my design (http://members.aol.com/vettenrr/LaFonteResearch.htm ) two work without the aid of an electronic control circuit to keep the profiles matched. Is it possible from a math standpoint? Any suggestions or thoughts? Thanks, Butch LaFonte LaFonte Research Group From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 23 21:42:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA26205; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:42:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:42:28 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 04:43:39 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Message-ID: <39fb0f52.444625725@mail.midiowa.net> References: <200010240122.VAA22852@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> In-Reply-To: <200010240122.VAA22852@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA26173 Resent-Message-ID: <"vk0CX3.0.IP6.pCHzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17262 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:22:43 -0400, knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) wrote: >Maybe you could power an alternator with one of those GEET setups on a >lawnmower engine. You would probably have to have it run inside your house >to keep the water from freezing, but you could run an exhaust hose to a >modified window. Anybody know offhand how much wattage a generic car >alternator can put out? On first blush, it sounds like a reasonable idea, >anyway. Properly cooled, a car alternator can put out about 1500 watts. The large sizes (police cars, etc.) can put out about 2500 watts. However, they normally aren't designed to be run continuously -- almost all have brushes for the slip rings. Many lower-cost emergency generators use an alternator with a brushless design. That would be the type to use. Northern Tool has a 2900 watt brushless generator (belt-driven for gas engines) for $300. 5500 watt for $400. 9500 watt for $570. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 23 21:42:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA26290; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:42:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:42:33 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tests of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Processor Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 04:43:45 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Message-ID: <39f6d2a2.429087815@mail.midiowa.net> References: <74.420e681.27253f8d@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <74.420e681.27253f8d@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA26231 Resent-Message-ID: <"OsP321.0.hQ6.vCHzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17263 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi J-L, On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 03:15:25 EDT, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: >Tests by J-L Naudin of a retroffited lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels >Processor >A test more surprising were carried out >with 75% of WATER and 25% of gasoline ( 95 LL ) : >the retrofitted lawn mower runs very well in real condition of use... > >The exhaust gas are very clean and not very odorous. > >On 10-22-00, I fully confirm that this lawn mower retroffited with the GEET >Multi-Fuels Processor is able to run very well with 75% of water and 25% of >gasoline. What concerns me is ... what about engine wear? Is there enough lubrication in the engine to reduce the much higher friction that running on water causes? Most low cost lawn mower engines can run about 500 to 1000 hours when properly maintained (these run times are in spurts of a few hours at a time). Is there any chance you could run a life test on the engine while under load? -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 23 21:56:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA01803; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:56:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:56:17 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 04:57:30 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Message-ID: <39fc15e4.446307663@mail.midiowa.net> References: <4.2.0.58.20001023203115.00c54e50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001023203115.00c54e50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA01778 Resent-Message-ID: <"VAq1t2.0.0S.nPHzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17264 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Charles, On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:25:16 -0500, Charles Ford wrote: >As for the list. I apologize that nobody took the time to explain that >there are NO working over unity energy devices. Hey!! I guess you missed my message from 2 days ago. Here's what I suggested (in response to Bryan's request): **************************************************** On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:30:09 EDT, Bmd2323@aol.com wrote: >Guys, thanks for the input. What I really, really, really want is some way >of heating the trailer I live in up to a comfortable temperature that won't >run my light bill through the roof. So far, nobody's been able to find a cheap method that gets around the laws of physics (as we know them). By that I mean that a resistance heater is the cheapest way to use electricity to heat a relatively small space (your trailer). The most effective measures anyone can take in cold climates is to: 1) Seal the building as completely as possible so absolutely no air can pass in or out without your approval. :) Most buildings (and trailers) leak enough air to be equivalent to having two large windows open. 2) Once the sealing has been taken care of, add as much insulation as possible. (A reflective barrier is useful, too.) I've seen some people almost completely wrap their homes in plastic for the winter to prevent air leakage. It's a lot cheaper for most people than investing in better heaters. **************************************************** -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 23 22:32:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA15099; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:31:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:31:54 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:31:16 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: Unknown sub 148 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA15065 Resent-Message-ID: <"nl7RN1.0.mh3.AxHzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17265 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Match coils and we might be there I said: >and that their cemf thru this time constant is equal at all times also. I am thinking the number of windings can be reduced in the ferrite core coil to match the two coils "induction profiles" as a starting point.< I was asked: >Why? I don't know what you are getting at and and how you would use this.  Need more information please.< Hi all, I have been running tests that gave me results I wanted but was so suprised to get. When I run the rotor at speed in my design (fabricated by Bob Squires) I am passing very strong rare earth magnets thru two sets of coils. One in repulsion to the passing magnet and one in attraction to the passing magnet. I put a volt meter on the series circuit and the voltage did not change at all. I put an amp meter on the circuit and the amp flow did not change at all. This was done as the rotor was spinning thru the coils. The emf generated by each coil was equal but opposite and the voltage/current stayed the same. I then did a check of each coil set one at a time and the voltage/current went off the scale. I also turned the rotor and counted the number of rotations after torque was removed with the circuit closed and with the circuit open. It had the same number of rotations in both cases. It's as though the rotor magnets didn't know the coils were there in either case. This was done with the coils having ferrite cores and with air cores. Same results in both cases. Now here is the process I see in this system for overunity. 1. The circuit is open. 2. One set of coils (repulsion) has an air core. 3. The other set of coils (attraction) has a ferrite core. 4. One of the rotor magnets is attracted to the ferrite core (circuit open) and work can be done at the shaft. 5. Now when the magnets line up with both sets of coils, the circuit is closed and if the L/R "profiles" and time constants remain the same in an equal but opposite fashion as the rotor rotates away from the coils, then the magnet in the ferrite core coil can be moved away with no work input to the shaft and the rotor can start another cycle. This would be just as was done in testing with the coil sets as stated above. 6. Circuit power is sent to a capacitor during this pulse for reuse. 7. Please see > http://members.aol.com/vettenrr/LaFonteResearch.htm < to better understand physical layout of machine. Wiring diagram is not current and being updated tonight. 8. Anyone is welcome to come by my home to verify the test results I have stated above. Just call, phone and address are on web page. Thanks, Butch LaFonte LaFonte Research Group PS I was asked: >What do you mean by profiles? Just the L/R exponential curves?< Yes, and the time constant of the coils also. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 24 00:29:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA09852; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:29:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:29:07 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 03:29:02 -0400 Message-Id: <200010240729.DAA11164@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design Resent-Message-ID: <"Xj7P43.0.rP2.2fJzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17266 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dean writes: >Properly cooled, a car alternator can put out about 1500 watts. The >large sizes (police cars, etc.) can put out about 2500 watts. > >However, they normally aren't designed to be run continuously -- >almost all have brushes for the slip rings. Many lower-cost emergency >generators use an alternator with a brushless design. That would be >the type to use. > >Northern Tool has a 2900 watt brushless generator (belt-driven for gas >engines) for $300. 5500 watt for $400. 9500 watt for $570. > >-- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) Thanks Dean, I agree in part with your earlier evaluation that there are no cost effective alternative heaters available right now, and that Brian's best option for the money may be to install a propane, kerosene or bottled gas heater, but not that there are no OU devices. There are both alternatives and OU devices, but unfortunately, since neither are mass produced, nor are they designed well enough for safety yet, they present problems. For Brian this year, it might be a good idea for him just to go ahead and get a gas heater, and seal the heck out of his trailer until he can construct something that is altogether reliable, long lasting, and safe to heat it. That way he doesn't have to worry about the safety and reliability issues as much, since the bugs have already been worked out on most of those types of heaters when properly installed, and with the money he saves, he can experiment with other things that may or may not be as reliable until he gets all the bugs worked out of them. When he gets something really cool put together and tested, he can always sell his old gas heater to a yuppie camper. The Dingle motor, the Geet Bubbler, the Konzen motor and many others look extremely promising right now, but I wouldn't recommend them as a sole source of power for anybody until they have the bugs worked out. That is where time, experimentation, hard work, and the sharing of information by people like us come into play. While I have seen some excellent, detailed descriptions of expensive solar power installations that are guaranteed to be safe and reliable, I have yet to see any Plug'nPlay OU power setups, as of now, that are safe and reliable. They are there, they exist, but there are still too many bugs in them for my liking. If Brian can get an old, used, functioning lawnmower for $50 (not uncommon, as that is what I cut my yard with), belt drive a scrapyard alternator for $35, spend whatever for the plans and parts for the Geet device, for example, then he has something to play with that will give him some valuable experience for little money. It can run a resistance coil space heater without modifying the alternator for voltage, basically, for the life of the engine, which won't be long. If he gets that to work well however, then he can invest in a small diesel engine, and a serious alternator, and he'll have something that powers his whole house completely, both safely and reliably for the next 30 years with proper maintence. In the park that he is living, he is probably allowed to have a small shed, so he can pour a concrete floor, soundproof the shed, pallet mount the engine, and if he moves, he can take his power supply to his new location. Or, he can fool around with a small cavitation device, but seriously, unless he is prepared for the possibility of nuclear reactions, there are good reasons why he should not play around with cavitation devices on a large scale just yet. At least, that is my opinion. I know plenty of people who are successfully doing experimentation with some pretty wild new stuff, but they won't do it anywhere near their wife and kids. At least the Geet thing sounds like it would be safe to mess with in the home, and so would Gunnerman's A55 fuel for diesels (which I think is probably just a mixture of diesel, water, and some detergent), which I forgot to mention earlier. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 24 01:27:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA22511; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:27:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:27:23 -0700 Message-ID: <20001024082651.8546.qmail@web4406.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:26:51 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"P7Ens3.0.aV5.hVKzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17267 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: HDN Halloween Mpeg/Earth Resonant Discharge We Understand what a Schuman resonance is, that is 7.8 hz. If we had an AC indicator light that showed when the peaks of those AC voltages acted, that would actually be twice or ~ 15 blinks/sec. Now what I have actually done in this mpeg is to show a bulb reacting to the earth at 12 hz by calculations of looking at 47/60ths of a second and counting 17 on blinks vs 47 frames at 16.6 ms, but the observers will see half this value as explained below... chop/chop About right before I made 44 years, I noted the following to the list; On Mon, 06 Sep 1999 08:00:08 +0200, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > Hi Harvey. > do you know how a neon lamp sawtooth generator works ??? > > You just need a capacitor, a resistor and a neon lamp. > > You probably have build one of these, where you just use > the R of L ! Roger: Will Go Back to School, will advise superiors of my lack of judgement.HDN Well today is a later reply over a year later. What I was talking about then can be shown now. But to introduce a small humbleness here I think everyone should be held subject to a critical analysis on a yearly basis. A sort of accountability record to the public, also to ourselves and also to our own individual conceptions of what God is, and whether that supposed entity would approve of this years efforts at enlightenment, and perhaps even make some philosophical comments. Tesla often also delved into these off topic kind of things, so on that model I see no reason not to do the same. Tesla was only a historical person that many others have modeled on. That is a group of very dedicated enthusiasts that have over the last quarter century have brought the understandings and reckonings of Tesla to Public attention. i think even the name is reckoned with a warning to those that use it. They must use it wisely, but I have no caution for using it myself. First the more interesting things can be addressed,as I have composed a mpeg file of the BRS grounding of Gas Bulbs, referred to a year ago. Back then I speculated that the bulbs are resonating to the earth. I can look back now and still wonder if this is true. Now my father always said to leave the earth a better place than when you got here, so that is a good idea. He left me a bit of wealth to redistribute. That consists of the monetary assets I am given: which in turn are converted into scientific discovery by that ratio. In this ratio the power input is limited to a 175 ma input from wall voltage, which is the maximum the BRS will consume from the wall, as described in the past. Each of those 56 henry coils are 1000 ohms, and in parallel that makes 500 ohms. The ohms law value of conduction is never achieved atseries res. because those large coils will never fully resonate because of large internal capacitance in the 23 gauge windings Now what is done then is to merely connect the high voltage generated by the two opposite unobvious potential rises of the midpoint series resonant rises of voltage to 2 gas bulbs, at each of the opposite midpoint potentials with bulbs going to ground. Thus it is a one ended electrical path using the capacity of the earth itself to allow conduction through the bulbs as a one wire delivery. It was then found that by placing the 24 inch argon bulb to a tree, the dielectric qualities of the wood to ground enabled a steady state discharge to occur across that bulb as a capacitive filter in series with that unobvious potential. But the bulb directly grounded would instead blink. In fact each of these paths to ground will normally fight each other for the predominant ground path, but the wood filter in this case enabled simultaneous discharge from that bulb. So what I have done is to make a mpeg file of the resonant bulb blinking to ground as a 11 sec file contained at teslafy account at driveway.com Type in gefeveqy as password and you will see this latest file at the bottom. But you will not see what actually occured. This is because of what I call the wagon wheel effect. Dr. Krusinski actually showed me this from showings of the old Death Valley Days episodes where when the wagon wheels deaccelerate in time referenced to the stable time frames taken by the camera, providing an illusion seen or referenced by the viewer as something appearing to momentarily move forwards, instead of backwards. An OBSTACLE is a mirage that APPEARS to limit itself, by our own belief in it. That is how our reality is created and manifested. One copy of reality can be totally different from another, simply because of the difference of sampling rates. Now it is our superior cognition that determines the facts in reality, and thereby we can then recognize what is a delusion, and what is reality in time as we know it. Here then is a sort of massive paradox that is a real thing I have seen on tapings. We normally understand that a taping is only a recording. It is supposed to reveal the same information everytime time because it is a recording. However I have made recordings where the information that is seen then changes the future information, on only that recording... already chronologically recorded from the past. I have concluded this to be some kind of temporary acting virus,so beware of past events. The example I am supplying here has even nothing to do with the above paragraph, but is used in context to illustrate an analogy that does exist, a little beyond the comprehension now being shown, simply to show it as the next stepping stone of understanding. If one were to jump to that understanding as a first step: it becomes more understandable as a de ja vu, as the understanding has been there all along, very Zen like. What I am talking about here is that I have recorded an event, obeyed all the rules, ect and the event viewed by others will be entirely different from the event captured on tape. So who and how and what is responsible for such a massive discrepancy? Better talk to Alice in the Looking Glass: or Relativity in time. In the mpeg I have submitted you will see a 24 inch blinking neon bulb from a BRS midpoint to ground. It is 11 seconds. If you count the blinks of the bulb on the video, this is possible to count them five at a time with fingers as five or funf. When I made this mpeg I noticed that the blinks were twice as slow on the mpeg as on the real recording from VHS tape. More inspection reveals that the sampling rate of USA VHS CamCorders are once per cycle, or USA 60 hz. This also means a Camera should run to produce frames per second as a frequency dependent ratio. At 16.6 ms/USA hz, it is also noticed that the DAZZLE mpeg software only produces frames per second at half this sampling rate, or a frame every .03 seconds. In this case the source is blinking twice as fast as what is then actually being recorded by the software. So here we can see the everyday occurances of relativity, this is not only something for Einstein or the mischeivious cat of probabilities. Here I have something that blinks twice as fast,figured at 12 hz, but when the software translates it, it appears as 6 hz. Thats a big discrepancy. And speaking of the efficiency here, it doesnt seem too bad at 20 watts. But that may actually be a bad efficiency, time will tell that from the past. Maybe some one should duplicate it to be sure,...,please use only 1/5 amp from wall with no transformer. Sincerely Mischeivious on Halloween;HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 24 01:27:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA22716; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:27:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:27:42 -0700 Message-ID: <20001024082710.12503.qmail@web4404.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:27:10 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"WBtgq3.0.jY5.zVKzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17268 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: HDN Halloween Mpeg/Earth Resonant Discharge We Understand what a Schuman resonance is, that is 7.8 hz. If we had an AC indicator light that showed when the peaks of those AC voltages acted, that would actually be twice or ~ 15 blinks/sec. Now what I have actually done in this mpeg is to show a bulb reacting to the earth at 12 hz by calculations of looking at 47/60ths of a second and counting 17 on blinks vs 47 frames at 16.6 ms, but the observers will see half this value as explained below... chop/chop About right before I made 44 years, I noted the following to the list; On Mon, 06 Sep 1999 08:00:08 +0200, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > Hi Harvey. > do you know how a neon lamp sawtooth generator works ??? > > You just need a capacitor, a resistor and a neon lamp. > > You probably have build one of these, where you just use > the R of L ! Roger: Will Go Back to School, will advise superiors of my lack of judgement.HDN Well today is a later reply over a year later. What I was talking about then can be shown now. But to introduce a small humbleness here I think everyone should be held subject to a critical analysis on a yearly basis. A sort of accountability record to the public, also to ourselves and also to our own individual conceptions of what God is, and whether that supposed entity would approve of this years efforts at enlightenment, and perhaps even make some philosophical comments. Tesla often also delved into these off topic kind of things, so on that model I see no reason not to do the same. Tesla was only a historical person that many others have modeled on. That is a group of very dedicated enthusiasts that have over the last quarter century have brought the understandings and reckonings of Tesla to Public attention. i think even the name is reckoned with a warning to those that use it. They must use it wisely, but I have no caution for using it myself. First the more interesting things can be addressed,as I have composed a mpeg file of the BRS grounding of Gas Bulbs, referred to a year ago. Back then I speculated that the bulbs are resonating to the earth. I can look back now and still wonder if this is true. Now my father always said to leave the earth a better place than when you got here, so that is a good idea. He left me a bit of wealth to redistribute. That consists of the monetary assets I am given: which in turn are converted into scientific discovery by that ratio. In this ratio the power input is limited to a 175 ma input from wall voltage, which is the maximum the BRS will consume from the wall, as described in the past. Each of those 56 henry coils are 1000 ohms, and in parallel that makes 500 ohms. The ohms law value of conduction is never achieved atseries res. because those large coils will never fully resonate because of large internal capacitance in the 23 gauge windings Now what is done then is to merely connect the high voltage generated by the two opposite unobvious potential rises of the midpoint series resonant rises of voltage to 2 gas bulbs, at each of the opposite midpoint potentials with bulbs going to ground. Thus it is a one ended electrical path using the capacity of the earth itself to allow conduction through the bulbs as a one wire delivery. It was then found that by placing the 24 inch argon bulb to a tree, the dielectric qualities of the wood to ground enabled a steady state discharge to occur across that bulb as a capacitive filter in series with that unobvious potential. But the bulb directly grounded would instead blink. In fact each of these paths to ground will normally fight each other for the predominant ground path, but the wood filter in this case enabled simultaneous discharge from that bulb. So what I have done is to make a mpeg file of the resonant bulb blinking to ground as a 11 sec file contained at teslafy account at driveway.com Type in gefeveqy as password and you will see this latest file at the bottom. But you will not see what actually occured. This is because of what I call the wagon wheel effect. Dr. Krusinski actually showed me this from showings of the old Death Valley Days episodes where when the wagon wheels deaccelerate in time referenced to the stable time frames taken by the camera, providing an illusion seen or referenced by the viewer as something appearing to momentarily move forwards, instead of backwards. An OBSTACLE is a mirage that APPEARS to limit itself, by our own belief in it. That is how our reality is created and manifested. One copy of reality can be totally different from another, simply because of the difference of sampling rates. Now it is our superior cognition that determines the facts in reality, and thereby we can then recognize what is a delusion, and what is reality in time as we know it. Here then is a sort of massive paradox that is a real thing I have seen on tapings. We normally understand that a taping is only a recording. It is supposed to reveal the same information everytime time because it is a recording. However I have made recordings where the information that is seen then changes the future information, on only that recording... already chronologically recorded from the past. I have concluded this to be some kind of temporary acting virus,so beware of past events. The example I am supplying here has even nothing to do with the above paragraph, but is used in context to illustrate an analogy that does exist, a little beyond the comprehension now being shown, simply to show it as the next stepping stone of understanding. If one were to jump to that understanding as a first step: it becomes more understandable as a de ja vu, as the understanding has been there all along, very Zen like. What I am talking about here is that I have recorded an event, obeyed all the rules, ect and the event viewed by others will be entirely different from the event captured on tape. So who and how and what is responsible for such a massive discrepancy? Better talk to Alice in the Looking Glass: or Relativity in time. In the mpeg I have submitted you will see a 24 inch blinking neon bulb from a BRS midpoint to ground. It is 11 seconds. If you count the blinks of the bulb on the video, this is possible to count them five at a time with fingers as five or funf. When I made this mpeg I noticed that the blinks were twice as slow on the mpeg as on the real recording from VHS tape. More inspection reveals that the sampling rate of USA VHS CamCorders are once per cycle, or USA 60 hz. This also means a Camera should run to produce frames per second as a frequency dependent ratio. At 16.6 ms/USA hz, it is also noticed that the DAZZLE mpeg software only produces frames per second at half this sampling rate, or a frame every .03 seconds. In this case the source is blinking twice as fast as what is then actually being recorded by the software. So here we can see the everyday occurances of relativity, this is not only something for Einstein or the mischeivious cat of probabilities. Here I have something that blinks twice as fast,figured at 12 hz, but when the software translates it, it appears as 6 hz. Thats a big discrepancy. And speaking of the efficiency here, it doesnt seem too bad at 20 watts. But that may actually be a bad efficiency, time will tell that from the past. Maybe some one should duplicate it to be sure,...,please use only 1/5 amp from wall with no transformer. Sincerely Mischeivious on Halloween;HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 24 01:31:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA25619; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:30:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:30:56 -0700 Message-ID: <20001024083024.8796.qmail@web4406.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:30:24 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"yX1kL2.0.8G6.0ZKzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17269 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: HDN Halloween Mpeg/Earth Resonant Discharge We Understand what a Schuman resonance is, that is 7.8 hz. If we had an AC indicator light that showed when the peaks of those AC voltages acted, that would actually be twice or ~ 15 blinks/sec. Now what I have actually done in this mpeg is to show a bulb reacting to the earth at 12 hz by calculations of looking at 47/60ths of a second and counting 17 on blinks vs 47 frames at 16.6 ms, but the observers will see half this value as explained below... chop/chop About right before I made 44 years, I noted the following to the list; On Mon, 06 Sep 1999 08:00:08 +0200, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > Hi Harvey. > do you know how a neon lamp sawtooth generator works ??? > > You just need a capacitor, a resistor and a neon lamp. > > You probably have build one of these, where you just use > the R of L ! Roger: Will Go Back to School, will advise superiors of my lack of judgement.HDN Well today is a later reply over a year later. What I was talking about then can be shown now. But to introduce a small humbleness here I think everyone should be held subject to a critical analysis on a yearly basis. A sort of accountability record to the public, also to ourselves and also to our own individual conceptions of what God is, and whether that supposed entity would approve of this years efforts at enlightenment, and perhaps even make some philosophical comments. Tesla often also delved into these off topic kind of things, so on that model I see no reason not to do the same. Tesla was only a historical person that many others have modeled on. That is a group of very dedicated enthusiasts that have over the last quarter century have brought the understandings and reckonings of Tesla to Public attention. i think even the name is reckoned with a warning to those that use it. They must use it wisely, but I have no caution for using it myself. First the more interesting things can be addressed,as I have composed a mpeg file of the BRS grounding of Gas Bulbs, referred to a year ago. Back then I speculated that the bulbs are resonating to the earth. I can look back now and still wonder if this is true. Now my father always said to leave the earth a better place than when you got here, so that is a good idea. He left me a bit of wealth to redistribute. That consists of the monetary assets I am given: which in turn are converted into scientific discovery by that ratio. In this ratio the power input is limited to a 175 ma input from wall voltage, which is the maximum the BRS will consume from the wall, as described in the past. Each of those 56 henry coils are 1000 ohms, and in parallel that makes 500 ohms. The ohms law value of conduction is never achieved atseries res. because those large coils will never fully resonate because of large internal capacitance in the 23 gauge windings Now what is done then is to merely connect the high voltage generated by the two opposite unobvious potential rises of the midpoint series resonant rises of voltage to 2 gas bulbs, at each of the opposite midpoint potentials with bulbs going to ground. Thus it is a one ended electrical path using the capacity of the earth itself to allow conduction through the bulbs as a one wire delivery. It was then found that by placing the 24 inch argon bulb to a tree, the dielectric qualities of the wood to ground enabled a steady state discharge to occur across that bulb as a capacitive filter in series with that unobvious potential. But the bulb directly grounded would instead blink. In fact each of these paths to ground will normally fight each other for the predominant ground path, but the wood filter in this case enabled simultaneous discharge from that bulb. So what I have done is to make a mpeg file of the resonant bulb blinking to ground as a 11 sec file contained at teslafy account at driveway.com Type in gefeveqy as password and you will see this latest file at the bottom. But you will not see what actually occured. This is because of what I call the wagon wheel effect. Dr. Krusinski actually showed me this from showings of the old Death Valley Days episodes where when the wagon wheels deaccelerate in time referenced to the stable time frames taken by the camera, providing an illusion seen or referenced by the viewer as something appearing to momentarily move forwards, instead of backwards. An OBSTACLE is a mirage that APPEARS to limit itself, by our own belief in it. That is how our reality is created and manifested. One copy of reality can be totally different from another, simply because of the difference of sampling rates. Now it is our superior cognition that determines the facts in reality, and thereby we can then recognize what is a delusion, and what is reality in time as we know it. Here then is a sort of massive paradox that is a real thing I have seen on tapings. We normally understand that a taping is only a recording. It is supposed to reveal the same information everytime time because it is a recording. However I have made recordings where the information that is seen then changes the future information, on only that recording... already chronologically recorded from the past. I have concluded this to be some kind of temporary acting virus,so beware of past events. The example I am supplying here has even nothing to do with the above paragraph, but is used in context to illustrate an analogy that does exist, a little beyond the comprehension now being shown, simply to show it as the next stepping stone of understanding. If one were to jump to that understanding as a first step: it becomes more understandable as a de ja vu, as the understanding has been there all along, very Zen like. What I am talking about here is that I have recorded an event, obeyed all the rules, ect and the event viewed by others will be entirely different from the event captured on tape. So who and how and what is responsible for such a massive discrepancy? Better talk to Alice in the Looking Glass: or Relativity in time. In the mpeg I have submitted you will see a 24 inch blinking neon bulb from a BRS midpoint to ground. It is 11 seconds. If you count the blinks of the bulb on the video, this is possible to count them five at a time with fingers as five or funf. When I made this mpeg I noticed that the blinks were twice as slow on the mpeg as on the real recording from VHS tape. More inspection reveals that the sampling rate of USA VHS CamCorders are once per cycle, or USA 60 hz. This also means a Camera should run to produce frames per second as a frequency dependent ratio. At 16.6 ms/USA hz, it is also noticed that the DAZZLE mpeg software only produces frames per second at half this sampling rate, or a frame every .03 seconds. In this case the source is blinking twice as fast as what is then actually being recorded by the software. So here we can see the everyday occurances of relativity, this is not only something for Einstein or the mischeivious cat of probabilities. Here I have something that blinks twice as fast,figured at 12 hz, but when the software translates it, it appears as 6 hz. Thats a big discrepancy. And speaking of the efficiency here, it doesnt seem too bad at 20 watts. But that may actually be a bad efficiency, time will tell that from the past. Maybe some one should duplicate it to be sure,...,please use only 1/5 amp from wall with no transformer. Sincerely Mischeivious on Halloween;HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 24 02:43:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA08374; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 02:42:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 02:42:19 -0700 Message-ID: <20001024094148.25546.qmail@web4402.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 02:41:48 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"1MWxj1.0.h22.xbLzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17270 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Triplicate entry Revised Sorry about the triplicate post folks/it was an accident. But obviously this one is not. When we concieve of three tank circuits joined to a wye common point, each of those wires can be looked at as separate wires with separate connections to their source potentials, also joined at the comon point. Nothing is wrong with that at all. In that 3 phase idea the three tank circuits are then 3 connected in wye, with one point in common. When we understand things better, there is not just a point in common, but all of the lines leading to the point also. This has resulted in the modern convention of allowing one line to be shared by two phases, where the shared paths in cancellation result in cancellation of that return current line current, or ground wire return path in 4 wire wye. But the inverse situation also applies to a 3 phase line current which must supply not just the current going into a phase, but also a portion of the adjacent phases return current, which is used in the opposite direction of sending by virtue of reversed polarity. Knowing this renders 3 phase a less remarkable phemonenon because we have just learned that this is not a true one ended wire application at all! So in this case of application, the 6 inner wires going to a common point of ground can be replaced by 3 joined to a common point:AND IN THE BRS ANALOGY TO 3 Phase: just exacty like that of the single 180 case; THE CIRCUIT IS A MIRROR IMAGE OF ITSELF. What this means is that the 3 three tank circuits combined in three phase as WYE using 6 wires to a common point is schematicallly the same as the 6 inner wires combined into three wires using a common path. There will then be more current on those middle pathways, the same extra current that was needed when a delta line had to supply 1.73 Amps to make a 1 amp delta load. The only thing that has changed is that the circuit has been inverted; or the input is now used as the output in reverse: or this is the bridge of delta wye conversions. When the mind is given two different constructs that arrive at the same result; it is supposed to make a final solution; meaning a great deal of realization, or even enlightenment. So who says that it(the light bulb) can't be done analytically? HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 24 10:50:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA28392; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:50:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:50:10 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:51:21 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Message-ID: <39f7c919.492192464@mail.midiowa.net> References: <200010240729.DAA11164@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> In-Reply-To: <200010240729.DAA11164@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id KAA28301 Resent-Message-ID: <"otFEN1.0.Xx6.IlSzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17271 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Knuke, On Tue, 24 Oct 2000 03:29:02 -0400, knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) wrote: >I agree in part with your earlier evaluation that there are no cost >effective alternative heaters available right now, and that Brian's best >option for the money may be to install a propane, kerosene or bottled gas >heater, but not that there are no OU devices. There are both alternatives >and OU devices, but unfortunately, since neither are mass produced, nor are >they designed well enough for safety yet, they present problems. Yup. That's what I meant. >The Dingle motor, the Geet Bubbler, the Konzen motor and many others look >extremely promising right now, but I wouldn't recommend them as a sole >source of power for anybody until they have the bugs worked out. I'd agree with the GEET device, but I'm rather suspicious of the others. :) >If he gets that to work well however, then he can invest in a small diesel >engine, and a serious alternator, and he'll have something that powers his >whole house completely, both safely and reliably for the next 30 years with >proper maintence. In the park that he is living, he is probably allowed to >have a small shed, so he can pour a concrete floor, soundproof the shed, >pallet mount the engine, and if he moves, he can take his power supply to >his new location. There's no question that a small diesel would work fine -- but the cost of the genset and associated controls, plus the cost of diesel fuel, will be far greater than paying the power company for electricity. The most cost-effective -- non-OU -- power source for the long haul is either water or wind power. That's because the cost of fuels, petroleum based, natural gas or bio-fuel, is going up -- and will skyrocket in a few years. That's assuming there's no major disruption in the Middle East supply. When enough people perceive that much higher fuel prices are here to stay, there will be a massive swing toward wind energy farms, IMO. I'm just hoping we're smart enough to get "cold fusion" or other OU energy sources running before we really run low on fuel. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 24 12:47:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA19617; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:42:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:42:00 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001024134943.00959270@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:33:23 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design In-Reply-To: <200010240122.VAA22852@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"DAk-I2.0.Mo4.8OUzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17272 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 09:22 PM 10/23/00 -0400, you wrote: >Ahoy! > >Maybe you could power an alternator with one of those GEET setups on a >lawnmower engine. You would probably have to have it run inside your house >to keep the water from freezing, but you could run an exhaust hose to a >modified window. Anybody know offhand how much wattage a generic car >alternator can put out? On first blush, it sounds like a reasonable idea, >anyway. Car alternators average about 65 Amps at max output. There are some 100 Amp models and some 35 Amp, but most of them are 60 or 65 At 13.5 V a 65A chevy alternator will produce 890 watts. (roughly 1.5 HP) and consume a little less then 1.8HP They will run about 25000 hours continuous before they crash and burn. At about 83% efficiency they are an excellent choice. Here is the problem To effectively heat his trailer he will need to produce about 5KW continuously. he will need to have 6 of them and at least a 10HP motor. A 10HP B&S cost about $400.00 and a new chevy alternator will run him about $80.00. Then there is concrete and pulleys and belts and a chassis or frame. Something will need to be done to hide the noise and deal with exhaust. There is also the need for some type of inverter to make his power into something useable. 110VAC @60Hz. All in all he should be over $2000 deep in costs before he puts one drop of fuel in the thing. and the build up should be finished oh say about March 1.... I agree that this is a good long term solution (if you are willing to do the maintenance) but Bryan will be bankrupt and frozen long before its ready. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 24 15:03:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA17033; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:02:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:02:25 -0700 Message-ID: <39F61257.6C68D713@harti.com> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 23:51:03 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, billb@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: TESLA: MASTER OF LIGHTNING -- PBS DOCUMENTARY!!! (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lPhzr2.0.2A4.mRWzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17274 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Bill, is this somehow be watchable on the WEB via RealVideo or WindowsMedia Live or recorded ? Are you also shown with some experiments ? Would like to see it here overseas ! :) Regards, Stefan. > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:40:28 EDT > From: NPproducer@aol.com > To: billb@eskimo.com > Subject: TESLA: MASTER OF LIGHTNING -- PBS DOCUMENTARY!!! > > Tesla: Master of Lightning will be airing in December 12, 2000 on PBS (check > local PBS listings for exact date and time). Tesla: Master of Lightning, > directed by Robert Uth and produced by Phylis Geller of New Voyage > Communications, will be the first major documentary on Nikola Tesla, arguably > the most important inventor of the 20th Century. > > Attached you will find a press kit with all pertinent information on the > documentary, as well as contact listings for actor Stacy Keach, voice of > Tesla. > > Please forward this email to all parties you think may have an interest in > this fascinating subject and visit our site at: > > http://www.newvoyagepublishing.com/tesla.html > Nikola Tesla > (link for aol users only) > > Here you will also find pictures and press kits. This is indeed a momentous > occasion! > > Also, check out PBS.org and search for Tesla. On "Tesla Comp" you will see > a test page that will be ready at the end of November. > > http://www.pbs.org/tesla/index.html > Tesla Comps (link for > aol users only) > > See the excitement coming! -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 24 15:03:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA16976; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:02:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:02:21 -0700 Message-ID: <39F6122F.3BF0F605@harti.com> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 23:50:23 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , JNaudin509@aol.com, "ou-builders@egroups.com" Subject: Re: [FG]: Tests of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Processor X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <74.420e681.27253f8d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HfyBE3.0.994.jRWzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17273 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Congratulations Jean Louis, does your lawn mower motor now really run 4 times longer with the 75 % water and 25 % gasoline fuel mixing ? Or is the water not used up and will stay inside the bubbler ? JNaudin509@aol.com schrieb: > > Dear All, > > Tests by J-L Naudin of a retroffited lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels > Processor > > October 21th, 2000, I was pleased to test myself and this for the first time, > a lawn mower been driven by a 4 strokes engine retrofitted with the > Multi-Fuels Processor invented by Paul Pantone. All the parts used are > standard and come from stores of do-it-yourself and/or hypermarkets ( > plumbing departement ). The parts were selected to be more closer to the > original plan published freely by Pantone on the Internet network the > 11-11-99. The bubbler is a simple metal can of 5 liters. The assembly of the > unit was carried out so that the machine can be used in real conditions of > use (shearing of grass). > One break-in period of at least 20 minutes with pure gasoline ( 95LL ) is > necessary. The mower was placed so that the axis of the endothermic engine > (2) is aligned with the North-South terrestrial magnetic axis. The hot side > of the reactor chamber (engine exhaust) is placed towards the North, and this > in accordance with the recommendations of Paul Pantone. After this break-in > period, the tests of the mower started. > A first successful test was carried out with pure gasoline 95LL, then a > second test successful with a mixture of water 50% and gasoline 50%. > > A test more surprising were carried out > with 75% of WATER and 25% of gasoline ( 95 LL ) : > the retrofitted lawn mower runs very well in real condition of use... > > The exhaust gas are very clean and not very odorous. > > On 10-22-00, I fully confirm that this lawn mower retroffited with the GEET > Multi-Fuels Processor is able to run very well with 75% of water and 25% of > gasoline. > > You will find in my web site all diagrams, photos and videos about this tests > at : > > http://jlnlabs.terrashare.com > > Best Regards > > Jean-Louis Naudin > Email:Jnaudin509@aol.com > Web: http://go.to/jlnlabs.com -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 24 18:11:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA03179; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:11:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:11:06 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39F5E0B9.D190FACE@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:19:21 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tests of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PwZNI1.0.an.gCZzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17275 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mehmet Boysal wrote: > > Hi all > I see two kinds of people on this list! > > 1-Generous, loving, sharing constantly trying to make an improvement > on anything and let the whole word know about it. Yes! With peace, and butterflies, and magickal crystal energies, and loving fuzzy bunnies, and everything bad is caused by Oil Companies, the Trilateral Commission, the NWO, the Conspiracy, the Zeta Reticulans, and the Masonic Order! > > 2-Doubting folks! Why, why do they inject so much negativity into this > list and try to discredit inventors? their inventions Why? Yep, us doubters. Us people who second guess our observations. Us people who don't proclaim "Hurrah" the instant we find something. Yeah, all we did was to bring the TV, the internet, modern science, computers, etc, into being. Wow, cruddy record! > > Is it because they can't do it? > Or is it because they get paid by oil companies? I get paid by the Oil Companies! Even though I'm a computer programmer by trade, I'm paid to slander the names of these bright geniuses who historically... a) run off with people's money when their 'invention' is a sham. b) promise stuff but never deliver c) are INSANE. Hey, Bub, DOUBT is what makes the Scientific method work. And the past 2000 years have been proof of the effects of DOUBT. The effects of FINDING FAULT, of not believing what you first think you see. Of going back to the lab, and banging at it until there is no other way to explain it. :) Yep, we all know it's crap though... Because some insane nutball in a garage is soo much better! Deluding himself into what he sees. If you don't doubt, you can't be a scientist. > > They did the same thing with the recent announcement of: > Motionless Electromagnetic Generator: By Thomas Bearden and 4 other > scientist. > > There was one that attack and try to put down Motionless Electromagnetic > Generator invention. That was the LIST OWNER. Beaty is a pretty smart guy. See, Bearden, he's done this in the past. What about the Sweet VTA? Whatever happened to that? Wasn't that supposed to be the REAL O/U devices? I mean, well, gee, if it was working, why ain't we all using it? Now it's the MEG, but again, how long till this disappears? I bet it's when investors stop feeding him money, realizing it's a scam, and what a black hole it is. I could be wrong, but Bearden doesn't have the best record. > > This is what J. Naudin said: > A test more surprising were carried out > with 75% of WATER and 25% of gasoline ( 95 LL ) : > the retrofitted lawn mower runs very well in real condition of use... And my comment is VALID. If it's filled with 1/4 gas, does it at LEAST run longer than 1/4 the length of time? I mean, filling a tank with 1/4 the amount of gas, and 3/4 water is nothing, if the mower only RUNS 1/4 as long! If it's not true, it's about as silly as saying that since you filled your car with only half a tank of gas, it's more fuel efficient! > > I believe honest and positive people are far more in greater numbers on the > earth, then those who don't want these inventions to come out. Honest Happy Hippies are usually drugged cultists. Happy Rich people are usually the ones getting ripped off by sham artists in the Fringe Sciences. <:) > > Keep up the great work all who are honest and truthfull and working againts > every possible challenges to make energy machines more efficient > may you be mightly empowered every day and achive all, and so called: > "impossible." too. > Just like what John Worrel Keely did. Yeah, what he did with a air compressor... ;) Oh wait, the oil companies planted that to descredit him! > > And those who speak of darkness, doubt, negativity, and only enjoys to > discredit inventions and inventors > Let them live in the world they creat and enjoy. Yep, modern medicine, computers, etc, all created by us NEGATIVE NO-FUN DOUBTERS! Woah, it's a horrid life! > > Mehmet.>> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 24 18:54:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA20225; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:54:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:54:28 -0700 From: Tillyzena@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:53:44 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 102 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id SAA20181 Resent-Message-ID: <"pT5KW.0.qx4.KrZzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17276 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: [FG] Test of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or Hmm, I can see no reaction would occur in this device, steam would be created not h2, at best all the water would do is have a slight filtering action on the exhaust gasses and as the device was run the "bubbler" would become more and more contaminated with carbon. The fuel is also being evaporated by the heat of the running engine, I don't believe this apparatus would be very easy to start and once running the varnishing effect of petroleum would soon glue up the intake side. Fuel residue would foul the bubbler and the exhaust side would become restricted due to carbon deposits. As for the "magnetised" rod, I am not going in to detail, but if you know anything about physics you will know that a steel rod will not become spontaneously magnetised in the manner described and even if pre-magnetised would soon loose it's magnetic properties as the temperature began to rise. All these things considered I would think that this device would be less efficient than a regular carburetted engine as the air-fuel mixture would fluctuate erratically. The engine's life would be greatly reduced due to the corrosive nature of the fuel mixed with water vapour. The octane level of the fuel would change as the lighter hydrocarbons would be evaporated first, also, petroleum has additives which help to lessen its corrosive properties and improve combustion, i.e.benzene, lead, sodium and potassium based products etc. These would become concentrated in the bubbler. As for this device working in a "closed loop" well really, how can anyone take these people seriously? I could go on and on about why this device will not do what J.L.N. and others claim it will, I am not saying that people shouldn't try to make a difference, just don't be sucked in by psudo science. Later, Ardvark. (Dean Ardern) MOTD:Don't let people treat you like a mushroom! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Hartmann" To: ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 11:50 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Tests of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Processor > Congratulations Jean Louis, > > does your lawn mower motor now really > run 4 times longer with the 75 % water and 25 % gasoline fuel > mixing ? > Or is the water not used up and will stay inside the bubbler ? > > > JNaudin509@aol.com schrieb: > > > > Dear All, > > > > Tests by J-L Naudin of a retroffited lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels > > Processor > > > > October 21th, 2000, I was pleased to test myself and this for the first time, > > a lawn mower been driven by a 4 strokes engine retrofitted with the > > Multi-Fuels Processor invented by Paul Pantone. All the parts used are > > standard and come from stores of do-it-yourself and/or hypermarkets ( > > plumbing departement ). The parts were selected to be more closer to the > > original plan published freely by Pantone on the Internet network the > > 11-11-99. The bubbler is a simple metal can of 5 liters. The assembly of the > > unit was carried out so that the machine can be used in real conditions of > > use (shearing of grass). > > One break-in period of at least 20 minutes with pure gasoline ( 95LL ) is > > necessary. The mower was placed so that the axis of the endothermic engine > > (2) is aligned with the North-South terrestrial magnetic axis. The hot side > > of the reactor chamber (engine exhaust) is placed towards the North, and this > > in accordance with the recommendations of Paul Pantone. After this break-in > > period, the tests of the mower started. > > A first successful test was carried out with pure gasoline 95LL, then a > > second test successful with a mixture of water 50% and gasoline 50%. > > > > A test more surprising were carried out > > with 75% of WATER and 25% of gasoline ( 95 LL ) : > > the retrofitted lawn mower runs very well in real condition of use... > > > > The exhaust gas are very clean and not very odorous. > > > > On 10-22-00, I fully confirm that this lawn mower retroffited with the GEET > > Multi-Fuels Processor is able to run very well with 75% of water and 25% of > > gasoline. > > > > You will find in my web site all diagrams, photos and videos about this tests > > at : > > > > http://jlnlabs.terrashare.com > > > > Best Regards > > > > Jean-Louis Naudin > > Email:Jnaudin509@aol.com > > Web: http://go.to/jlnlabs.com > > -- > > Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com > Better getting paid to surf the WEB: > http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 > http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne > http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N > Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! > -- > Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! > http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 24 19:03:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA13942; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:01:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:01:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001501c03e26$ffa8b620$5f3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <39F5E0B9.D190FACE@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tests of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:57:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZdwXy1.0.lP3.LyZzv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17277 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ah, those who delay get their thoughts expressed by another. Yes, well put Daniel! Doubt is indeed a necessary part of science. As I have said before, when you find an anomaly, or a promising new effect, it is your sacred obligation as a scientist to absolutely BRUTALIZE your own work. If it makes it out the other side, then it is ready to pass on to the world. I think Mehmet was referring to my comments about MEG, although I do recall the comment Bill made. Please re-read what I said, Mr. Boysal. I hope against hope that MEG works, but I am not personally holding my breath, because a track record of claims that evaporate in the sun is a hard rap to beat. If it does not work, may it vanish quickly, and not haunt newcomer experimenters time and time again. VTA was a prime example, and the MRA, as well as the infamous PODMOD. I did not say that I hope MEG does not work. I myself have seen many initially tantalizing experimental results of my own vanish under scrutiny. No-one likes to erase or retract an elegant theory/device they have built themselves, but it is the sad duty of the experimentalist. It is also the truly honest approach. And it is also necessary to be honest in pointing out pitfalls to the new-comer to the alt-sci scene. There are fellows out there among the group who have been experimenting and testing and slaving away for their cause longer than I have. I have been at it for about 20 years myself. I recall the Bearden texts and scalar electromagnetic paradigm from the Cold War era. I recall reading it and thinking " well where in the hell are the diagrams and plans and test data and photographs of systems." No, twas just talk, talk, and more talk, laced with inscrutible mathematics and excuses about national security. If national security was actually an issue, then he wouldn't be putting the books out to start with. Unless they were disinfo...hmmm. Mehmet, there are genuinely great experimentalists out there who share their information wholly and without reservation. Bill B is one of them; so is JLN, even if I question some of the material they present for our review. I strive to share what pittance I have, be it variable cap effects, or Tribo-grav, or LED effects, or what not. I myself see 2 types of people on the list as well: 1. People who question and experiment and try to make future technology happen, be it by original work or by open replication of other's claim. 2. People who talk and read and talk some more, without ever picking up a soldering iron or high voltage cap. By the way, I do get a shove out of the thought of getting payola from the oil industry. I hold the title of Scientist for a solar photovoltaic R&D firm in Toledo, Ohio. I have worked for the solar PV cause for almost ten years, working my way up the ladder from technician to senior tech, to scientist. NR > Mehmet Boysal wrote: > > > > Hi all > > I see two kinds of people on this list! > > > > 1-Generous, loving, sharing constantly trying to make an improvement > > on anything and let the whole word know about it. > > Yes! > > With peace, and butterflies, and magickal crystal energies, and loving > fuzzy bunnies, and everything bad is caused by Oil Companies, the > Trilateral Commission, the NWO, the Conspiracy, the Zeta Reticulans, and > the Masonic Order! > > > > 2-Doubting folks! Why, why do they inject so much negativity into this > > list and try to discredit inventors? their inventions Why? > > Yep, us doubters. Us people who second guess our observations. Us > people who don't proclaim "Hurrah" the instant we find something. > > Yeah, all we did was to bring the TV, the internet, modern science, > computers, etc, into being. Wow, cruddy record! > > > > Is it because they can't do it? > > Or is it because they get paid by oil companies? > > I get paid by the Oil Companies! Even though I'm a computer programmer > by trade, I'm paid to slander the names of these bright geniuses who > historically... > > a) run off with people's money when their 'invention' is a sham. > b) promise stuff but never deliver > c) are INSANE. > > Hey, Bub, DOUBT is what makes the Scientific method work. And the past > 2000 years have been proof of the effects of DOUBT. The effects of > FINDING FAULT, of not believing what you first think you see. Of going > back to the lab, and banging at it until there is no other way to > explain it. :) > > Yep, we all know it's crap though... > > Because some insane nutball in a garage is soo much better! Deluding > himself into what he sees. > > If you don't doubt, you can't be a scientist. > > > > > They did the same thing with the recent announcement of: > > Motionless Electromagnetic Generator: By Thomas Bearden and 4 other > > scientist. > > > > There was one that attack and try to put down Motionless Electromagnetic > > Generator invention. > > That was the LIST OWNER. Beaty is a pretty smart guy. > > See, Bearden, he's done this in the past. > > What about the Sweet VTA? Whatever happened to that? Wasn't that > supposed to be the REAL O/U devices? I mean, well, gee, if it was > working, why ain't we all using it? > > Now it's the MEG, but again, how long till this disappears? > > I bet it's when investors stop feeding him money, realizing it's a > scam, and what a black hole it is. I could be wrong, but Bearden doesn't > have the best record. > > > > > This is what J. Naudin said: > > A test more surprising were carried out > > with 75% of WATER and 25% of gasoline ( 95 LL ) : > > the retrofitted lawn mower runs very well in real condition of use... > > And my comment is VALID. > > If it's filled with 1/4 gas, does it at LEAST run longer than 1/4 the > length of time? I mean, filling a tank with 1/4 the amount of gas, and > 3/4 water is nothing, if the mower only RUNS 1/4 as long! > > If it's not true, it's about as silly as saying that since you filled > your car with only half a tank of gas, it's more fuel efficient! > > > > > I believe honest and positive people are far more in greater numbers on the > > earth, then those who don't want these inventions to come out. > > Honest Happy Hippies are usually drugged cultists. > > Happy Rich people are usually the ones getting ripped off by sham > artists in the Fringe Sciences. <:) > > > > > Keep up the great work all who are honest and truthfull and working againts > > every possible challenges to make energy machines more efficient > > may you be mightly empowered every day and achive all, and so called: > > "impossible." too. > > Just like what John Worrel Keely did. > > Yeah, what he did with a air compressor... ;) > > Oh wait, the oil companies planted that to descredit him! > > > > And those who speak of darkness, doubt, negativity, and only enjoys to > > discredit inventions and inventors > > Let them live in the world they creat and enjoy. > > Yep, modern medicine, computers, etc, all created by us NEGATIVE NO-FUN > DOUBTERS! > > Woah, it's a horrid life! > > > > > Mehmet.>> > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 24 19:15:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA31711; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:15:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:15:24 -0700 Message-ID: <39F641AE.FCF2D161@enter.net> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:13:02 -0400 From: David Rosignoli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: [FG] Test of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pkm131.0.Kl7.x8azv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17278 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Okay. You raise valid points. But have you ever tested one to see its results? Yes, you don't want to be duped into something fraudulent, but if someone claims something counter to what theory predicts, and can back it up with carefully taken experimental evidence, then that experiment should be looked at very carefully and with an open mind. If I'm not mistaken, hasn't the GEET device been tested with gasoline with the resulting exhaust much cleaner (no carbon deposits and fewer CO emmisions). (Sorry. I don't remember where I saw this.) -Dave Tillyzena@aol.com wrote: > > Hmm, I can see no reaction would occur in this device, steam would be > created not h2, at best all the water would do is have a slight filtering > action on the exhaust gasses and as the device was run the "bubbler" would > become more and more contaminated with carbon. The fuel is also being > evaporated by the heat of the running engine, I don't believe this > apparatus would be very easy to start and once running the varnishing effect > of petroleum would soon glue up the intake side. Fuel residue would foul the > bubbler and the exhaust side would become restricted due to carbon deposits. > As for the "magnetised" rod, I am not going in to detail, but if you know > anything about physics you will know that a steel rod will not become > spontaneously magnetised in the manner described and even if pre-magnetised > would soon loose it's magnetic properties as the temperature began to rise. > All these things considered I would think that this device would be less > efficient than a regular carburetted engine as the air-fuel mixture would > fluctuate erratically. The engine's life would be greatly reduced due to the > corrosive nature of the fuel mixed with water vapour. The octane level of > the fuel would change as the lighter hydrocarbons would be evaporated first, > also, petroleum has additives which help to lessen its corrosive properties > and improve combustion, i.e.benzene, lead, sodium and potassium based > products etc. These would become concentrated in the bubbler. As for this > device working in a "closed loop" well really, how can anyone take these > people seriously? I could go on and on about why this device will not do > what J.L.N. and others claim it will, I am not saying that people shouldn't > try to make a difference, just don't be sucked in by psudo science. > Later, > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 24 20:47:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA05046; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 20:46:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 20:46:57 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39F60539.AD5BDA71@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:55:05 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: [FG] Test of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or References: <39F641AE.FCF2D161@enter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wjhdo.0.lE1.nUbzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17279 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com David Rosignoli wrote: > > Okay. You raise valid points. But have you ever tested one to see its > results? Yes, you don't want to be duped into something fraudulent, but > if someone claims something counter to what theory predicts, and can > back it up with carefully taken experimental evidence, then that > experiment should be looked at very carefully and with an open mind. If > I'm not mistaken, hasn't the GEET device been tested with gasoline with > the resulting exhaust much cleaner (no carbon deposits and fewer CO > emmisions). (Sorry. I don't remember where I saw this.) > > -Dave But using Water to scrub the exhaust is old school. Every large incinerator and coal/oil powerplant does that. They use water with lime to scrub out sulfur, nitric oxides, etc, because they dissolve in it. So cleanliness, that isn't suprising. What I HAVE NOT seen is reliable MPG ratings for the GEET. 1/4 water / gas is well known. Some buses right now are running on 1/4 napthol, 3/4 water mixes. Slightly modified conventional diesel engines. Their emissions are lower too, and their gas mileage slightly better. But is the GEET way better than even this, fuel efficency wise? Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 24 22:24:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA03022; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:23:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:23:28 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <5b.d04f3b1.2727c823@aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 01:22:43 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Tests of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Processor To: harti@harti.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, ou-builders@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: Unknown sub 30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA02994 Resent-Message-ID: <"7cBDE.0.7l.Gvczv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17280 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dans un courrier daté du 25/10/00 00:03:51 Paris, Madrid (heure d'été), harti@harti.com a écrit : > Congratulations Jean Louis, > > does your lawn mower motor now really > run 4 times longer with the 75 % water and 25 % gasoline fuel > mixing ? > Or is the water not used up and will stay inside the bubbler ? Hi Stefan, Thanks for your comments, I have just started my retrofitted lawn mower test phase the last week-end, more tests will be conducted about its performance on the next week-end. About the retrofitted lawn mower test, the main real interesting thing in the GEET Fuel processor is that this device is able to use any kind of hydrocarbures source like crude oil, methanol, gasoline, various solvents, kerozen, bio diesel and mixed with water.... Today I can say that the GEET Fuel processor works VERY WELL on my lawn mower ( see the videos in my web site ) according to the original Pantone diagram and his claim: - The exhaust emission of the retroffited engine is far less and cooler than stardard engines, - the device operate on unconventional fuels, - the retrofit system replace a conventional carburetor. I don't really think that this device can be compared to a water engine, this device is a 4 stroke engine ( a 3.5 HP Tecumseh ) which runs with its own multi-fuels MINIATURE REFINERY on board... Very usefull for anyone those want to use any sources of hydrocarbures....... For more informations about my retrofitted lawn mower tests, stay tuned on my web site at : http://jlnlabs.terrashare.com Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Main Web site : http://go.to/jlnlabs/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 00:11:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA12936; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 00:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 00:10:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tests of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:09:46 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <39F5E0B9.D190FACE@worldnet.att.net> In-Reply-To: <39F5E0B9.D190FACE@worldnet.att.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id AAA12909 Resent-Message-ID: <"pz3wR.0._93.WTezv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17281 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Daniel's message of Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:19:21 -0500: [snip] >> Just like what John Worrel Keely did. > > Yeah, what he did with a air compressor... ;) > > Oh wait, the oil companies planted that to descredit him! [snip] Actually, from one diagram (picture?) I saw, it looked for all the world as though he had invented a primitive electric motor. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 07:08:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA02372; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 07:08:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 07:08:09 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001025081739.0095a430@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:08:32 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: [FG] Test of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"Q9-Qh.0.va.8bkzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17282 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 09:53 PM 10/24/00 -0400, you wrote: >Hmm, I can see no reaction would occur in this device, steam would be >created not h2, at best all the water would do is have a slight filtering To all who are examining the GEET or any other water / fuel moisture device. This is not new. Race car drivers used to use water in there fuel system to boost the engine output. (now considered unethical and even outlawed most race organizations) This is how it works. The water simply takes up more space (steam is harder to compress then air) This has a direct effect on the compression stroke efficiency of the engine. Also at work is a more efficient burn at higher firing moment pressure. (this is why most engines run better when the ignition timing is slightly before TDC (Top Dead Center). Further the water saturated air skews the burn towards a more explosive (less hot) burn using the fuel even more efficiently. (you want mechanical energy not thermal energy) There is no reaction (except of the explosion of fuel) there is nothing magic here, no ZPE no spliting of water molecules (water is very stable) and most of the wild clams are just plain bunk. However. This is an extremely efficient way to burn fuel. I am sure that you will see increased fuel performance. The current methods of deriving energy from fuel are dirty and have a very low usable yeald. Take this into consideration. I have seen an old Dodge Colt converted to Hybrid Electric using a modified starting motor from an aircraft engine, a bank of car batteries and a generator made from alternators and a 5HP B&S motor. This little car averaged about 110 MPG and achieved 135 MPG on a cross country highway trip. There was no steam injector or water bubbler or anything of that sort. just a side draw carburetor (and a rather primitive one at that) in fact the whole implementation was rather primitive. The Hybrid Electric gains its performance by using the energy more efficiently The GEET gains its performance by generating energy more efficiently I see no problem with GEET devices performing almost this well. they simply burn fuel more efficiently... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 09:15:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA03984; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:13:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "David Rosignoli" Sender: drdaveor@enter.net Reply-to: drdaveor@enter.net To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:13:39 +400 Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: [FG] Test of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or X-Mailer: DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway 2.1t, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <39f706b3.3e71.0@enter.net> X-User-Info: 192.91.146.34 Resent-Message-ID: <"gNJzX.0.qz.-Qmzv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17283 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I was doing a web search for independent claims of the GEET device and the best that I could find was this: http://members.tripod.com/professor_shields/geet.htm Does anyone else know of any others? >The Hybrid Electric gains its performance by using the energy more efficiently >The GEET gains its performance by generating energy more efficiently >I see no problem with GEET devices performing almost this well. they >simply burn fuel more efficiently... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 09:46:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA05287; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:46:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:46:05 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.28.94.82] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]:Heating the trailer... Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:45:28 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Oct 2000 16:45:28.0728 (UTC) FILETIME=[FB401980:01C03EA2] Resent-Message-ID: <"9Ra36.0.MI1.Cvmzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17284 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From: Bmd2323@aol.com >Guys, thanks for the input. What I really, really, really want is some way >of heating the trailer I live in up to a comfortable temperature I would like to add my two cents worth... Having lived in a trailer for many years off and on... first was a kerosene heater... yeekkkk... could never get a good nights sleep... always worried about fire and affixeation... next was electric radiant heaters and Quartz Heaters... like living with a camp fire... only heat on one side cold everywhere ells... or with a fan going??? I like fans in the summer when I'm trying to cool off not in the winter... fans just seem to make the room colder no mater how warm it is... lastly we found oil filled radiator heaters... still electric but wow!!! even heat that stays even... no fan... so the room feels warmer and even gives you a good place to dry your boots... I highly recommend them... we just moved into the house we have been working on for years... the oil filled heater is the only thing we moved in with us... ours is a "avanti" we bought it at coast to coast hardware store for $44.95 some years back... here is what it looks like... http://www.colehardware.com/hotline/heaters/lakewood.htm try your local hardware store... I feel for you... I know what it is like to live with cold... I even painted the south facing wall of my trailer black... helped on sunny days... shade with white tarp on hot days(usually not windy and hot...LOL..)... Timothy... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 15:44:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA15445; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:43:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:43:21 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: [FG] Test of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:42:46 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <4.2.0.58.20001025081739.0095a430@pop.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001025081739.0095a430@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA15372 Resent-Message-ID: <"8nI0n2.0.En3.98szv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17285 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Charles Ford's message of Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:08:32 -0500: >At 09:53 PM 10/24/00 -0400, you wrote: >>Hmm, I can see no reaction would occur in this device, steam would be >>created not h2, at best all the water would do is have a slight filtering > >To all who are examining the GEET or any other water / fuel moisture device. > >This is not new. Race car drivers used to use water in there fuel >system to boost the engine output. (now considered unethical and even >outlawed most race organizations) > >This is how it works. The water simply takes up more space (steam is >harder to compress then air) I have only one quibble here. Steam per se is not harder to compress than air, it's just that by adding water droplets, more actual molecules of water can be placed in the cylinder, than an equivalent volume of air molecules. This is a simple consequence of the fact that the water is a liquid when it goes in. When heated it expands in volume hundreds of times as it evaporates, becoming essentially the equivalent of a much larger volume of air. This is what drives the pressure up. It is actually an "internal combustion steam engine". The rest of the post is excellent. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 16:24:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA29023; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:23:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:23:57 -0700 Message-ID: <39F77831.85F3361E@harti.com> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 01:17:53 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gzBQ43.0.857.Dkszv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17286 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Step charging experiment verified ? Did anybody ever try to replicate Graham´s OU step charging experiments and had simular results ?? Graham wrote: > *** > Finally, I built one last circuit that puzzled me for a long time. I built it after I started reading Tom Bearden's papers. It appeared to me in a dream. > > +---+--- > - | | > ----| ^d | | > | * s1 - | Ne > =c1 /*--+ =c2 | > | * - | 3 > ----| ^d | 3 > - | | > +------- > > The left side of this circuit is a capacitor connected across the two open contact points of a SPDT reed relay (s1). The center (toggling) contact of the reed relay connects to the center of the diodes of the "Avramenko plug". This charges a capacitor that is discharged by the Ne lamp in series with a 47K resistor. > > Diodes d can be single 1N4948 but I found it was better to use many in series, like a chain of 10 diodes in series for each "d" in the schematic. > > c1 was a 0.1 uF 25kV oil capacitor charged to about 600 volts maximum. The oil capacitor was used because it has very low leakage and will stay charged for a long time. > > Diodes d were 1N4948. c2 was 0.047uF 630V polypropylene dielectric. > > Brushing a magnet over the reed switch (to toggle it) would make the neon bulb flash. A switched coil that actuated the reed switch much faster than this was used and a lot of energy came out for the size of this circuit. c1 did not discharge very quickly, it became obvious that c2 was getting more charge on it than c1 contained. > > While under certain circumstances this circuit will measure over unity, (Tom Bearden says it will do this, too) solid state switches don't work to substitute for s1. Read Bearden, he can say why better than I can. One needs a physical disconnection/connection at s1 to get this effect. I have used MOSFETS and other things to try and substitute for s1, but the results are not good, the extra charge seems to get lost in them. > > With mechanical switching I have noted o/u in some setups, but capacitive coupling between c1 and c2 can destroy the free energy effect and run down source capacitor c1. > > Apparently Mr Bearden has applied for a patent of this circuit, or one like it. He calls it "step charging" the capacitor, as each "click" of the relay notches up the charge on c2 by an increment. > > Bearden also notes that step charging has been mathematically shown in graduate physics texts to be able to charge a capacitor without entropy - that is, without the disordering (loss) of the original charging potential. This circuit has been mathematically shown to be capable of o/u, apparently, but no one yet has gotten around the mechanical switch and made it solid state. Even Mr Bearden has not been able to, but that is no grounds for discouragement. > > In the circuit, one can see that there is never even a physical complete circuit between the plates of c1. How, then, will it ever discharge? The charge "spray" (as Bearden calls it) is rectified by the diodes without any electron flow. This charges c2 without discharging c1. I personally will testify to this, I have seen it myself. This effect only occurs when the capacitive coupling between c1 and c2 is broken. > > If the output of c2 could feed a coil that spun a disc with magnets on it, and the magnets turned and flew by the reed switch so as to trigger it many times, maybe this circuit would be capable of self sustained o/u action. The reed switches are only good to about 500 volts though, and the output of this circuit is proportional to the square of c1's voltage. > > -Graham > > > Original Message: > > Dear Graham: > > I take the liberty of talk directly to you as in the lists almost all > are interested in another type of projects. > Have you done any test on the Avramenko plug? > I've done these test to see if the cap really charges and it does. I > used a ignition > coil,a 3N3055 and a 555 oscillator in a simple setup and a pot to vary > the frequency. > What I want to find someone more equiped than me (and with more knows) > to se from where the power come from to charge the cap as there is no > actual > ground connection to explain a normal functioning. > Please allow me a little asci drawing to refresh the plug: > > ---|>|--- > HV | __|__ > HF --------------¦ ____ > sin or pulsed | | > ---|<|--- > > I'm not an artist, obviously. If this cap is charging for free then will > not be very difficult > to extract energy from that with the right circuit via switchs or > something else. > > Any comments are welcome of course. Thanks for your time. > > Juan de la Cruz Barrios > > PS: I really enjoy yours post, please keep the good work. -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 16:51:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA23345; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:50:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:50:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000001c03edd$d40b9fc0$233dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:16:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C03EAF.A73D8680" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"aNZrm.0.Zi5.37tzv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17287 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: The McMaster Motor This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C03EAF.A73D8680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gentlemen; Normally I'm not terribly into new motor / fuel concepts (notice that = I've stayed out of the GEET discussion). However, here's something that = some of you novel fuel / engine guys might be into. The scientist who founded the company I still work for, Dr. Harold = McMaster, had been working on a peculiar engine idea since the WWII era. = Been through many models and revisions over the decades, mainly as a = hobby project until the 1980's. Now, however, he has working units, and = a company set up to start pilot production. The device is a rotary engine of sorts, that runs on ammonia and = nitrous oxide. If you want to get technical about it, it would run = underwater or in space, since oxidiser is supplied with the fuel blend. Anyway, for you motorheads here is the new website Harold has up: www.mcmastermotor.com Enjoy! NR ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C03EAF.A73D8680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gentlemen;
 
   Normally I'm not terribly=20 into new motor / fuel concepts (notice that I've stayed out of the = GEET=20 discussion).  However, here's something that some of you novel fuel = /=20 engine guys might be into.
   The scientist who founded = the company=20 I still work for, Dr. Harold McMaster, had been working on a peculiar = engine=20 idea since the WWII era.  Been through many models and revisions = over the=20 decades, mainly as a hobby project until the 1980's.  Now, however, = he has=20 working units, and a company set up to start pilot = production.
   The device is a rotary = engine of=20 sorts, that runs on ammonia and nitrous oxide.  If you want to get=20 technical about it, it would run underwater or in space, since oxidiser = is=20 supplied with the fuel blend.
 
   Anyway, for you motorheads = here is the=20 new website Harold has up:
 
   www.mcmastermotor.com
 
 
Enjoy!
 
NR
------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C03EAF.A73D8680-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 18:25:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA03591; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:24:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:24:30 -0700 Message-ID: <39F7944B.C5F91FAC@harti.com> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 03:17:47 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Schnurer , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Free Energy References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_Ij7S1.0.pt.EVuzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17288 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: [jlnlabs] Step charging experiment verified ? Hi John, I don´t know. Graham said, it did not discharge C1 in this case. Maybe the small corona discharge of 600 Volts has some impact onto the electrodes, when the switch metal electrode comes nearer to the switch contact and finally makes contact. It seems just to work only via real metal-metal contact, not via semiconductor switches...as Graham said. John Schnurer schrieb: > > Dear Stefan, > > The "step charging" looks like a charge pump circuit. > > I wonder how this is protrayed as O-U? > > If charge pumps were O-U then many existing circuits would be O-U > also. > > J -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 18:32:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA06372; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:32:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:32:14 -0700 Message-ID: <026a01c03eec$6f97d7c0$7c736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:31:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0267_01C03EB1.C25ECC60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"pI6Z31.0.PZ1.Ucuzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17289 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: zero gravity This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0267_01C03EB1.C25ECC60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable would a craft using ag have any gravity within its field like like = artificial gravity or would it be like zero gravity? ------=_NextPart_000_0267_01C03EB1.C25ECC60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
would a craft using ag have any gravity within its=20 field like like artificial gravity or would it be like zero=20 gravity?
------=_NextPart_000_0267_01C03EB1.C25ECC60-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 19:39:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA30831; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:38:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:38:20 -0700 Message-ID: <22049696.972527863169.JavaMail.imail@batty.excite.com> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:37:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Reply-To: To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: zero gravity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 208.193.114.50 Resent-Message-ID: <"MqKk62.0.eX7.Ravzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17290 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Isaac Asimov (our hero) wrote an excellent short story about the difference between _levitation_ and _anti-gravity_. True anti-gravity is the flattening of space-time, and is VERY DANGEROUS. Weird things happen when space-time locally shifts from Riemannian to Euclidian gemetries. The craft you are probably imagining would experience a local gravitational field, because the craft is accelerating up @ ~ 9.8m/s^2, evading earth's gravity,but subjecting you to equivalent inertial effects. This is all simple General Relativity stuff, so... HIE THEE TO THE LIBRARY. Read. Then read more. Then keep reading. When you finish your local library, go to a Barnes&Noble or Borders. They have more modern, more avdanced stuff. Plus, they can get you _what_ever_you_want_! Think of the possibilities. BTW, I'm personally working on a nanotech concept, but I'd really like someting more reliable than photosynth or glucose to power it. That's y'all's job. Go. Have fun. You are the only person that can change your world. -Sean On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:31:15 -0700, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: | would a craft using ag have any gravity within its field like like artificial gravity or would it be like zero gravity? _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 20:15:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA14568; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:15:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:15:07 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.148] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: zero gravity Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:14:32 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Oct 2000 03:14:32.0724 (UTC) FILETIME=[DC6CD540:01C03EFA] Resent-Message-ID: <"gKauM3.0.KZ3.v6wzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17291 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From: "edward webber" >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: >Subject: [FG]: zero gravity >Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:31:15 -0700 > >would a craft using ag have any gravity within its field like like >artificial gravity or would it be like zero gravity? OK the way I see it would be: If a ship created a bubble of zero gravity so that it could lift itself into the air it would have a reversed micro gravity inside the bubble... that is say if you were sitting in a lawn chair inside your craft and you turned it on you would just float there... like the astronauts in the shuttle... slowly floating back down after each push up... but if you turned it up so that that the craft was lifted off the ground then you would be flung to the ceiling of the craft as the negative gravity pulled you up... same would go if you altered the field so as to propel your craft forwards... you would be pulled forwards to the front of the ship... Of coarse it would not have to be micro gravity, if you did a zero to sixty in .2 seconds then you would be platted to the inside of the windshield... Mass has to be countered and moved with force and the force used to counter the mass and move the mass would be equal and opposite... Simply Newton's law right??? Timothy... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 20:24:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA17982; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:24:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:24:09 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:24:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup X-Sender: w9sz@bluestem To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: [FG] Test of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"tIG3M.0.mO4.NFwzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17292 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > In reply to Charles Ford's message of Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:08:32 -0500: > > >At 09:53 PM 10/24/00 -0400, you wrote: > >>Hmm, I can see no reaction would occur in this device, steam would be > >>created not h2, at best all the water would do is have a slight filtering > > > >To all who are examining the GEET or any other water / fuel moisture device. > > > >This is not new. Race car drivers used to use water in there fuel > >system to boost the engine output. (now considered unethical and even > >outlawed most race organizations) > > > >This is how it works. The water simply takes up more space (steam is > >harder to compress then air) > > I have only one quibble here. Steam per se is not harder to compress than > air, it's just that by adding water droplets, more actual molecules of water > can be placed in the cylinder, than an equivalent volume of air molecules. > This is a simple consequence of the fact that the water is a liquid when it > goes in. When heated it expands in volume hundreds of times as it > evaporates, becoming essentially the equivalent of a much larger volume of > air. This is what drives the pressure up. It is actually an "internal > combustion steam engine". > The rest of the post is excellent. > [snip] > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > Very true. There were numerous magazine articles about water vapor injection into gasoline engines back in the 1970's. I even played around with it for a while. The simplest just sucked atomized water provided by an aquarium aerator stone in a jar of water into an "in" port on the carburetor. I noticed considerable increase in gas mileage with some percentages of water vapor. I understand Pontiac also did some research with this on their high-performance engines, but never saw anything published by them about it. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 20:37:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA22974; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:37:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:37:23 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.148] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: [FG] Test of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:36:50 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Oct 2000 03:36:50.0656 (UTC) FILETIME=[F9E50E00:01C03EFD] Resent-Message-ID: <"5ZG1t3.0.tc5.pRwzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17293 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Charles... What's your point??? I mean, good letter, great even if obvious stuff... but I feel like you were trying to say something and lost it in the words??? No, geet is not the magic box. geet requires fuel to run... But wow... If this thing works as it seems I want one to use in my future hybrid car :) Or is there a better internal combustion steam engine out there??? Are we seeking to step up to perfect or just "the" one giant leap??? To me any steps are good... The giant leap... better... Timothy... >From: Charles Ford >At 09:53 PM 10/24/00 -0400, you wrote: >>Hmm, I can see no reaction would occur in this device, steam would be >>created not h2, at best all the water would do is have a slight filtering > >To all who are examining the GEET or any other water / fuel moisture >device. > >This is not new. Race car drivers used to use water in there fuel >system to boost the engine output. (now considered unethical and even >outlawed most race organizations) > >This is how it works. The water simply takes up more space (steam is >harder to compress then air) This has a direct effect on the compression >stroke efficiency of the engine. Also at work is a more efficient burn at >higher firing moment pressure. (this is why most engines run better when >the ignition timing is slightly before TDC (Top Dead Center). Further the >water saturated air skews the burn towards a more explosive (less hot) >burn using the fuel even more efficiently. (you want mechanical energy >not thermal energy) > >There is no reaction (except of the explosion of fuel) there is nothing >magic here, no ZPE no spliting of water molecules (water is very stable) >and most of the wild clams are just plain bunk. > >However. > >This is an extremely efficient way to burn fuel. I am sure that you will >see increased fuel performance. The current methods of deriving energy >from fuel are dirty and have a very low usable yeald. > >Take this into consideration. I have seen an old Dodge Colt converted to >Hybrid Electric using a modified starting motor from an aircraft engine, a >bank of car batteries and a generator made from alternators and a 5HP B&S >motor. This little car averaged about 110 MPG and achieved 135 MPG on a >cross country highway trip. There was no steam injector or water bubbler >or anything of that sort. just a side draw carburetor (and a rather >primitive one at that) in fact the whole implementation was rather >primitive. > >The Hybrid Electric gains its performance by using the energy more >efficiently >The GEET gains its performance by generating energy more efficiently >I see no problem with GEET devices performing almost this well. they >simply burn fuel more efficiently... > > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 21:09:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA00694; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 21:09:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 21:09:30 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.148] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: [FG] Test of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 21:08:53 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Oct 2000 04:08:53.0733 (UTC) FILETIME=[74235150:01C03F02] Resent-Message-ID: <"UjLBu.0.eA.vvwzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17294 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I remember stories my grand father told me about back during the war... Yes old war stories... He said that it was common to use water injectors on the cars because of fuel rationing... they just rigged up a fuel pump to pump water into the engine linked to the gas peddle and a switch/lever??? on the dash something like a second carburetor???... You had to start the engine on just gas and only use the water wile underway... Using only gas at towards the end so as to not rust the engine inside... they had a lot of problems with the "women" and some men hydrolocking(spelled?) the engines at stop signs with this set up... This practice was quickly dropped after the war... That is about all I can remember about what he said... Been many years... I was about 12 that summer... But I loved the stories he told... So now my thinking... simply set a needle valve spray bar(alla model airplane engine style) on the intake of an engine and link the valve throttle to the main carb or fuel injector and use an electric fuel pump with a switch on the dash??? What could I expect to gain with this??? Hmmmm.... Timothy... > >Very true. There were numerous magazine articles about water vapor >injection into gasoline engines back in the 1970's. I even played around >with it for a while. The simplest just sucked atomized water provided by >an aquarium aerator stone in a jar of water into an "in" port on the >carburetor. I noticed considerable increase in gas mileage with some >percentages of water vapor. > >I understand Pontiac also did some research with this on their >high-performance engines, but never saw anything published by them about >it. > >Zack > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 26 00:32:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA24020; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 00:31:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 00:31:56 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 03:31:10 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, Taston1@aol.com, newman-l@emachine.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"JjvtE2.0.9t5.itzzv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17295 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: LaFonte Group site updated, new info, links Hi all, Jon has done a great job updating and adding links to site. New information on operation also posted. Thanks, Butch LaFonte http://members.aol.com/vettenrr/LaFonteResearch.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 26 04:00:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA01075; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 03:59:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 03:59:52 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:59:09 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [FG]: zero gravity X-Sender-Ip: 143.210.81.66 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XPy-L2.0.iG.ew0-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17296 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >> >>would a craft using ag have any gravity within its field like like >>artificial gravity or would it be like zero gravity? Aie! I fear that a point is being missed here. Think of the de Aquino System-G. Everything within the field, every atom is moved SIMULTANEOUSLY, so there are no inertial effects. In a System-G spacecraft, you would be floating around inside. Same with Bie feld-Brown devices, according to Brown himself. Therefore, you may assume that an essential element of a gravitic field is movement of all atoms within at simultaneously, therefore inertia is eradicated. You would feel no acceleration forces, neither would your feet touch the ground. On the other hand, if you can manage to build a craft able to take you to the stars riding on a Gravitic field, building a smaller onboard gravitic device to create an ambient 1-G field inside the craft should be peanuts........... James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 26 05:08:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA29513; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 05:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 05:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003701c03f45$f70ea7c0$4c17563f@lori> From: "Lori Garrett" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: [FG] Test of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 07:12:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"LET32.0.1D7.Aw1-v"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17297 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com in the'60s we used water injectors on race cars and a big problem we had was that when we ran alcohol with with them the pistons would develop small holes just like someone took a drill and drilled them ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy Flytch" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: [FG] Test of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or > I remember stories my grand father told me about back during the war... Yes > old war stories... He said that it was common to use water injectors on the > cars because of fuel rationing... they just rigged up a fuel pump to pump > water into the engine linked to the gas peddle and a switch/lever??? on the > dash something like a second carburetor???... You had to start the engine on > just gas and only use the water wile underway... Using only gas at towards > the end so as to not rust the engine inside... they had a lot of problems > with the "women" and some men hydrolocking(spelled?) the engines at stop > signs with this set up... This practice was quickly dropped after the war... > > That is about all I can remember about what he said... Been many years... I > was about 12 that summer... But I loved the stories he told... > > So now my thinking... simply set a needle valve spray bar(alla model > airplane engine style) on the intake of an engine and link the valve > throttle to the main carb or fuel injector and use an electric fuel pump > with a switch on the dash??? > > What could I expect to gain with this??? > Hmmmm.... > > Timothy... > > > > > >Very true. There were numerous magazine articles about water vapor > >injection into gasoline engines back in the 1970's. I even played around > >with it for a while. The simplest just sucked atomized water provided by > >an aquarium aerator stone in a jar of water into an "in" port on the > >carburetor. I noticed considerable increase in gas mileage with some > >percentages of water vapor. > > > >I understand Pontiac also did some research with this on their > >high-performance engines, but never saw anything published by them about > >it. > > > >Zack > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 26 10:01:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA19891; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:00:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:00:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001026102915.00957e10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:00:12 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design In-Reply-To: <39fc15e4.446307663@mail.midiowa.net> References: <4.2.0.58.20001023203115.00c54e50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001023203115.00c54e50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"8OUjQ.0.as4.GC6-v"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17298 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Dean Correct... I missed that one... I imagine you are currently getting ready for winter yourself... Here in North Texas its still a bit warm... in fact sticky... I just cat wait to turn off the AC... We have finally ben getting some rain. Still not out of the drought though. Seems that the rain is only filling in the cracks in the ground. I have managed to build up a handful of those battery desulphators that you recommended. Thanks for the tip. These have recovered about a half dozen UPS systems, (the work good on jells too) As yet there has ben no progress on the shorted car battery... I was probably too late. North Texas is pretty big on wind... I have vertical pinwheel device set up in my back yard that runs... eh em.. a 65A chevy alternator. I have ben able to draw as much as 35A on a windy day. So with the working UPS systems and some additional batteries. I think I will soon be able to take my garage lab off the grid. (a first step) 73's Charlie At 04:57 AM 10/24/00 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Charles, > >On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:25:16 -0500, Charles Ford >wrote: > > >As for the list. I apologize that nobody took the time to explain that > >there are NO working over unity energy devices. > >Hey!! I guess you missed my message from 2 days ago. Here's what I >suggested (in response to Bryan's request): > **************************************************** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 26 10:25:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA23122; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:24:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:24:35 -0700 (PDT) From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:25:43 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Message-ID: <39f965f5.663445439@mail.midiowa.net> References: <4.2.0.58.20001023203115.00c54e50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001023203115.00c54e50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001026102915.00957e10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001026102915.00957e10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id KAA23071 Resent-Message-ID: <"PML0k.0.1f5.BZ6-v"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17299 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Charles, On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:00:12 -0500, Charles Ford wrote: >North Texas is pretty big on wind... I have vertical pinwheel device set >up in my back yard that runs... eh em.. a 65A chevy alternator. I >have ben able to draw as much as 35A on a windy day. So with the working >UPS systems and some additional batteries. I think I will soon be able to >take my garage lab off the grid. (a first step) Hey, is that a vertical axis windmill? I've been looking at those beasties for years (decades) but haven't gotten around to making a real one. (In the 70's I made several small models that worked, but not too well :) I'm building a small geodesic dome to house my batteries, inverter and other power stuff -- it'll be slightly heated for the batteries. My biggest problem is running underground power lines between that building and the house, garage and deep well pump. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 26 11:25:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA30218; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 11:25:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 11:25:02 -0700 From: dave.tingley@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:18:38 -0400 Subject: Re: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design Message-ID: <20001026.141843.268.4.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-6,8-62 Resent-Message-ID: <"DcGdn1.0.3O7.zR7-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17300 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Is your vertical pinwheel device the Robert Green Windmill? How well does it work? I got the booklet from him several years ago and have been wanting to make one, but lacked the necessary "round tuit" :-) Dave On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:00:12 -0500 Charles Ford writes: > Hi Dean > > Correct... I missed that one... > > I imagine you are currently getting ready for winter yourself... > Here in > North Texas its still a bit warm... in fact sticky... I just > cat wait > to turn off the AC... We have finally ben getting some rain. Still > not > out of the drought though. Seems that the rain is only filling in > the > cracks in the ground. > > I have managed to build up a handful of those battery desulphators > that you > recommended. > Thanks for the tip. These have recovered about a half dozen UPS > systems, (the work good on jells too) As yet there has ben no > progress > on the shorted car battery... > I was probably too late. > > North Texas is pretty big on wind... I have vertical pinwheel > device set > up in my back yard that runs... eh em.. a 65A chevy > alternator. I > have ben able to draw as much as 35A on a windy day. So with the > working > UPS systems and some additional batteries. I think I will soon be > able to > take my garage lab off the grid. (a first step) > > 73's > > Charlie > > At 04:57 AM 10/24/00 +0000, you wrote: > >Hi Charles, > > > >On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:25:16 -0500, Charles Ford > > >wrote: > > > > >As for the list. I apologize that nobody took the time to > explain that > > >there are NO working over unity energy devices. > > > >Hey!! I guess you missed my message from 2 days ago. Here's what > I > >suggested (in response to Bryan's request): > > **************************************************** > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 26 13:04:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA06399; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:04:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:04:00 -0700 Message-ID: <39F89A93.20B84884@harti.com> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:56:52 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , JNaudin509@aol.com X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4WWfv.0.YZ1.lu8-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17301 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: closer MEG analysis ! About: http://www.cseti.org/bearden/MEGpaper.pdf Hi all, I had another closer look into the PDF file and there were power ratings and the scope pics also pretty much said it all... read Page 67, figure 18 and 19 He is running the 2 input coils at 180 degrees out of phase at around 40 Khz. The upper scope pic shows the total input power curves, which was about 3.588 Watts RMS power at double the frequency, so this is at 80 Khz. That is probably directly at the power supply. He has a digital clock driver (probably TTL or CMOS chips logic board) at the left side to it. If the left leg input coil is energized, the right leg input coil is not energized... This way the flux switches from left to right leg and so on vice versa. It seems the input coils just have a bigger sized diameter wire than the output coils for faster L/R time switching. The upper curve in Fig. 18 is the not very good stabilized power supply voltage at 51 Volts DC (with some ripples from the switching logic...) The second curve in fig. 18 is the input current. The total average input current is 117.5 mA RMS. Thus the third curve shows the RMS input power of 3.588 Watts. This is the total RMS input power of the MEG device. Each input coil is just energized only for around 5 usec as you can see from the input current waveform. It is a typical 1-e^-t/tau input current waveform with an exponential current rise. When after 5 usec the input current is cutt off, the input coils just oscillate on, probably there is a back-emf diode parallel to the input coil, or a capacitor or the inputcoil has some enough self parasitaric capacitance. Now to the output at Fig. 19: The output coils seems to have much more windings, than the input coils and probably also with smaller wire diameter. Thus we have the curves in Fig. 19 probably measured at one of the green output test resistors: The upper curve shows the output voltage to be at 1.96 KiloVolts Peak to Peak and the 2nd curve shows the output current at 15.44 mA, RMS so the third curve is a mathematical power calculation over the whole 50 msecs, which yields 12.7 Watts RMS output power at probably just one green load resistor. As the input coil current is probably just pulsed, the output coils are probably in resonance at 40 Khz, so their output voltage is mostly a sine wave. So the parasitaric capacity of the output coils is big enough to let them oscillate nearly with a sine wave at this 40 khz frequency. The frequency is probably adjusted, so that it just hits the resonance frequency of the output coils. This way, the output is maximized. Does anybody know the other guys who have worked on this MEG generator ? Are they also reachable on the Internet ? It was said on the PDF File at the beginning, that these guys worked on it: Thomas E. Bearden, Ph.D. James C. Hayes, Ph.D. James L. Kenny, Ph.D. Kenneth D. Moore, B.S. Stephen L. Patrick, B.S. Magnetic Energy Limited Huntsville, AL 35801 So far my analysis, it is now much more clearer to me how this thing works.. Regards, Stefan. -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 26 13:09:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA08405; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:08:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:08:40 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <93.25c8005.2729e91a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:07:54 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: Unknown sub 30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA08369 Resent-Message-ID: <"PmnGb3.0.632.7z8-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17302 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: The MEG Paper has been removed from the DoE site... Dear All, The Bearden's MEG paper has been removed from the DoE site...  PLEASE BACKUP this document to your local folder, you will find a copy at :   http://www.cseti.org/bearden/MEGpaper.pdf Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 26 14:34:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA00612; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:33:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001026155851.00967db0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:33:39 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design In-Reply-To: <39f965f5.663445439@mail.midiowa.net> References: <4.2.0.58.20001026102915.00957e10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001023203115.00c54e50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001023203115.00c54e50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001026102915.00957e10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"eZCw-.0.S9.dCA-v"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17303 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 05:25 PM 10/26/00 +0000, you wrote: >Hey, is that a vertical axis windmill? I've been looking at those >beasties for years (decades) but haven't gotten around to making a >real one. (In the 70's I made several small models that worked, but >not too well :) Yes... Ever make a pinwheel? Well if you run air through it from the side it has to make two turns to get out the other side. Each turn is against an adjacent fold of the pinwheel and adds to the torque. They produce quite a bit of torque but are not much on RPMs How small where your models? Mine is about 2 1/2 foot wide (cut from a 4X4 sheet of .010 sheet metal.) and requires about a 3 to one gear up (or pulley) to run a chevy alternator. I recommend a thicker sheet as I am concerned about just when this one will fly apart. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 26 15:27:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA03719; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:26:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:26:53 -0700 Message-ID: <39F8B9BF.E2496772@harti.com> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 00:09:52 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , JNaudin509@aol.com, "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Newman-L Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ILsYP1.0.kv.j-A-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17304 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: The big MEG question... Hi, there is still one last question with the MEG: where is its working point located on the B-H curve of the nanoperm core ? I guess, if the permanent magnet via the airgap distance is adjusted so that its idle state B flux is located just at the B-H knee at +Bsat (at a low +H value), then the input coils switch a reverse flux (low -H value) onto the core, so that all the core domains flip their polarity to -Bsat, this needs only very low input energy to do this domain flip ! But this will induce a huge dphi/dt inside the output coils, so we get an energy amplification via the core MuR factor. So running this device longer time, will probably cool down the core material and thus it will convert heat energy to electrical output energy. -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 26 16:00:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA14732; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:57:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:57:50 -0700 Message-ID: <39F8C393.7AC252E4@harti.com> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 00:51:47 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , Newman-L Mailing List , Free Energy , "ou-builders@egroups.com" X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oI2_c1.0.0c3.kRB-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17305 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Success !! Couldn´t withstand to post that ! Sorry for the offtopics ! Have a nice laugh and a good day ! :) Re: Success... > At age 4 . . . success is . . . not peeing in your pants. > At age 12 . . . success is . . . having friends. > At age 16 . . . success is . . . having a drivers license., > At age 20 . . . success is . . . having sex. > At age 35 . . . success is . . . having money. > At age 50 . . . success is . . . having money. > At age 60 . . . success is . . . having sex. > At age 70 . . . success is . . . having a drivers license. > At age 75 . . . success is . . . having friends. > At age 80 . . . success is . . . not peeing in your pants. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 26 17:02:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA09068; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:02:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:02:32 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.57.55.226] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: [FG] Test of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:01:59 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Oct 2000 00:01:59.0822 (UTC) FILETIME=[20C5A2E0:01C03FA9] Resent-Message-ID: <"fd6XH.0.WD2.NOC-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17306 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From: "Lori Garrett" >in the'60s we used water injectors on race cars and a big problem we had >was >that when we ran alcohol with with them the pistons would develop small >holes just like someone took a drill and drilled them So does this only happen with alcohol??? could it be that the alcohol cools the incoming air enough that ice particles are forming and then being propelled through the piston??? or just a extremely high localized pressure??? I picture a drop of water sitting on the piston and flashing to steam??? Timothy... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 26 17:52:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA28386; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:51:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:51:40 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <32.bdab266.272a2b72@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:50:58 EDT To: alex@frolov.spb.ru, a2509@yahoo.com, energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"aHKuG3.0.Kx6.S6D-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17307 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re:Self running mode tests In a message dated 10/26/00 3:37:53 AM Central Daylight Time, alex@frolov.spb.ru writes: > What about self-running test, i.e. autonomous mode of operation for the > motor-generator? > > Best regards, > > Alexander V. Frolov Alexander, I think I am about a week or two away from self running tests. I am short on funds (money) here and I have to beg or borrow the equipment or parts I need. I need large capacitors and other things before I can do self running mode tests. Regards, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 26 18:50:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA14765; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:49:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:49:48 -0700 Message-ID: <39F8EBA2.6DDB5B90@harti.com> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 03:42:42 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , info@methernitha.com X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iXS6Q1.0.Vc3.xyD-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17308 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Reverse engineering Testatika picture uploaded ! Hi all, due to the recent conversation with Graham Gunderson and Ken Stevens I have scetched a few explanations onto the older small Testatika picture. You can find it here: http://www.overunity.com/testatika/300re.jpg This ist small Testatika unit is pretty easy to understand, if you go from the output connectors back to the disc. The output is probably driven from 2 transformers inside these big cylinders, which look like Leyden jars. Inside there is probably as in the bigger machines a kind of flux switch transformer, which has a high ohmic primary coil (about 10 to 40 Henry) wound around a permanent magnet. This way the coil is biased on the BH-Curve of the magnet. The secondary winding is a low ohmic big wire winding, so it tranforms down the HV AC into some kind of asymmetrical (rectified) chopped DC. This is done via the saturation BH-knee of the permanent magnets inside the coils. The driver AC input fro these transformers comes from an electret acrylic disc, that the inventor Mr. Baumann probably makes himself via a heating process of the acrylic disc and then polarizes each "slice" element via "piano steel wire" with high voltage DC. This will charge each segment of the acrylic disc with a reversed polarity during cooling, so after manufacturing the disc is an electret with each segment having a reversed HV DC polarity, divided by each wire. Now this disc is spun via a HV DC motor via a pulley and thus the changing HV AC fields "influence" into the pickup mesh eletrodes also huge AC voltages, which are then converted down via the flux switch transformers to about 270 Volts chopped DC and about 1 to 1.1 Ampere of output current, so we get about 270 to 300 Watts of output power, depending on air dryness. The HV DC drive motor is a rewired normal DC motor, which was rewired with very fine (small) wire diameter to be able to run on HV DC. There is a 3rd smaller Ley.jar in the center which collects the HV DC for this drive motor. It might also have a diode to rectify the HV AC to DC. There are probably also some other pickup electrets and crystals with coils wound around them, so the AC output is enhanced from it and maybe this is also used to adjust it for a resonance and thus have a maximum HV AC input into the flux switch tranformers, so to maximize the output power. -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 26 19:07:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA20156; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:07:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:07:24 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 02:08:51 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Message-ID: <39f9e230.695253761@mail.midiowa.net> References: <4.2.0.58.20001026102915.00957e10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001023203115.00c54e50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001023203115.00c54e50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001026102915.00957e10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001026155851.00 967db0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001026155851.00967db0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA20113 Resent-Message-ID: <"Vf0Wl3.0.rw4.SDE-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17309 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:33:39 -0500, Charles Ford wrote: >Ever make a pinwheel? Nope. >Well if you run air through it from the side it has to make two turns to >get out the other side. Each turn is against an adjacent fold of the >pinwheel and adds to the torque. Do you know of a picture so I could try one? >They produce quite a bit of torque but are not much on RPMs >How small where your models? Mine is about 2 1/2 foot wide About the same size, but nothing like what you're describing. And they were unstable. (I made the first one out of plastic IC shipping containers and mylar film.) > (cut from a >4X4 sheet of .010 sheet metal.) and requires about a 3 to one gear up (or >pulley) to run a chevy alternator. I recommend a thicker sheet as I am >concerned about just when this one will fly apart. Sounds interesting. I thought that a standard pinwheel only worked when it's face is pointed into the wind. I'll have to investigate this. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 26 19:08:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA20896; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:08:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:08:22 -0700 Message-ID: <39F8F02F.9778FD45@harti.com> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 04:02:07 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"D_vdC.0.L65.MEE-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17310 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Methernitha publishes free energy claim ! Hi all, at least now Methernitha publishes publically at their web site that they have a free energy machine ! It gives the exact phrasing of their video tape, which shows the Methernitha Testatika, or as they spell it: Thestatica. (wording for "Testing the electrostatics", slang in Switzerlands German language) Here is the link: http://www.methernitha.com/Mether_2/Free_energie/free_energie.html They have it in 3 languages there. If you write them an email you get the automatic reply with a FAX number for a visit request: Betreff: Antwort Datum: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 03:51:10 +0200 Von: Genossenschaft Methernitha An: harti@harti.com Sehr geehrte(r) Interessent(in), unsere Homepage unter www.methernitha.com bietet eine Fülle an Informationen. Für weitere Auskünfte bzw. Anmeldung zu einem Besuch senden Sie uns bitte eine Telefax-Nachricht an (++41)317712613. -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 26 19:28:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA28957; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:28:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:28:13 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: [FG] Test of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:27:35 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3vphvskbs6cfqf9pc7oflm8kkf1tirjupt@4ax.com> References: <003701c03f45$f70ea7c0$4c17563f@lori> In-Reply-To: <003701c03f45$f70ea7c0$4c17563f@lori> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA28924 Resent-Message-ID: <"KX2xl2.0.M47.yWE-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17311 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Lori Garrett's message of Thu, 26 Oct 2000 07:12:07 -0500: >in the'60s we used water injectors on race cars and a big problem we had was >that when we ran alcohol with with them the pistons would develop small >holes just like someone took a drill and drilled them [snip] Did you happen to notice a power change when this happened, and if so please describe it? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 26 19:40:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA02108; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:40:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:40:11 -0700 Message-ID: <39F8E9A8.6A43BA79@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:34:16 -0500 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rI5RF2.0.iW.BiE-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17312 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Serrano? Hello: Anyone here ever hear of someone by the name of Hector Luis Serrano? Said to be president of Gravitech Inc., and had something to do with research into the Biefeld-Brown effect? --Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 26 21:01:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA31708; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:00:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:00:24 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20001026202422.095749f2@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:24:22 To: harti@harti.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: [jlnlabs] Step charging experiment verified ? In-Reply-To: <39F7944B.C5F91FAC@harti.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"N1jGO3.0.Ll7.OtF-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17313 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Stefan and all, I agree with John that it appears to be a charge pump with the stray capacitances. A simple test to eliminate these stray capacitances has the neon lamp not firing. Place the 2 diodes, the output capacitor and the neon lamp in a metal box with the wire coming out. Connect the box also to the input wire. At 03:17 AM 10/26/00 +0100, you wrote: >John Schnurer schrieb: >> >> Dear Stefan, >> The "step charging" looks like a charge pump circuit. >> I wonder how this is protrayed as O-U? >> If charge pumps were O-U then many existing circuits would be O-U >> also. -Dave D. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 27 03:59:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA27372; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 03:59:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 03:59:05 -0700 Message-ID: <39F96C9E.6CB2C80B@harti.com> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:53:02 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-n76P.0.Uh6.v_L-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17314 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Fwd: Konehead motor new stuff ou operation -------- Original Message -------- Betreff: Konehead motor new stuff Datum: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:43:06 -0700 Von: "Doug Konzen" An: "Stefan Hartmann" Hi Stefan I have tried to post a couple things on JNL but they never show up --- do you know anything about this or have you seen my last fairly-long post I wrote this morning about "overunity operation" of my motor?? Anyways, what i have done is to replace my two other attempts at spark-gap triggering (igntion points and roller-commutators) with the most simple of all: big magnetic reed switches, which has worked the best so far at having the volts-climb in the battery running the motor. I placed two 1Amp/240VAC rated reed switches right together at 3:00 and 9:00 (four reed switches in all) and these all trigger at once - (as close to the same time as mechanically possible) - I tried your idea of the switches in series, but what happened is just one of them took the "brunt" of it all, and this would cause too much flash-back and oveerheating... having them all in paralell works the best, and having them all fire at just-about-almost the same time makes it work as you described, with greater feed-back to the battery. With only two switches at 180 degrees, I can get the battery to stay level for an hour or so with the motor running at 1000rpm, BUT with the four reed switches, this will make the battery actually RAISE in voltage - all the way up (so far) to 15V, and there is no overheating occuring as far as I can tell anywhere, inccluding the reed switches themselves, so far. So this is great - seems to be undoubtable OU operation now - the TV screen will light up with static-splatter lines too, as well as the cold air affect happeneing. so it is getting close to making kits now for fairly cheap: guaranteed OU or your money back!! Pictures of my newest reed-switch only (no mosfet!) motor are right at the top of my website - the pics show a 4-stator coil version set up, but what worked well the other night and ran the battery up to 15V (before I shut it down!! SCARED!) was the two-stator coil version I ususally test, with the two pairs of reed swithches at 180 - I dont have pictures of this up yet, but it is obvious; the new set-up-------only the horizontal position fires, as i normally do....picture of 4-stator set-up: http://homepages.go.com/~enzok/4reedsw.jpg when I extract the recoil and ring of the coils now with rectifiers and caps timed-pulsed back into the motor, I should be able to run some pretty good load (Chuck Farrar had a 100W light bulb slowing down his battery rise) and still have no drain on the battery.. next step website: http://homepages.go.com/homepages/e/n/z/enzok/ Thanks can you post this for me? ciao Konehead From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 27 05:03:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA01089; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 05:02:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 05:02:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004101c0400e$6c196fa0$2f17563f@lori> From: "Lori Garrett" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: [FG] Test of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 07:07:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"0_O203.0.wG.cxM-v"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17315 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy Flytch" To: Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 7:01 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: [FG] Test of a lawn mower with the GEET Multi-Fuels Process or > >From: "Lori Garrett" > >in the'60s we used water injectors on race cars and a big problem we had > >was > >that when we ran alcohol with with them the pistons would develop small > >holes just like someone took a drill and drilled them > > > So does this only happen with alcohol??? could it be that the alcohol cools > the incoming air enough that ice particles are forming and then being > propelled through the piston??? or just a extremely high localized > pressure??? I picture a drop of water sitting on the piston and flashing to > steam??? > > Timothy. .. > __Did you happen to notice a power change when this happened, and if so please describe it? Robin van Spaandonk Yes, Timothy, this only happened with alcohol and not gasoline. Alcohol runs cooler than gasoline. The engines were high compression (aboout 13.5 to 1) and about 900 hp and was a 327 Chevy. We packed ice on the intake manifold to cool the incoming air. The engines were run probably 5 or 6 quarter mile races and rebuilt, and the damage would show up everytime with alcohol. I don't know why the damage occured. Maybe a reaction between fuel, water, and aluminum pistons. Yes, Robin, we noticed a definite power boost (probably 20 %) when we added water injection. But , no change as the damage occured. ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 27 07:17:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA22090; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 07:15:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 07:15:24 -0700 Message-ID: <39F99A9C.CE704AD1@harti.com> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:09:16 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CHRIS KUELZOW CC: konehead@email.msn.com, "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <39F96C9E.6CB2C80B@harti.com> <39F96BDB.DBBF12D@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LeeGA3.0._O5.ytO-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17316 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Konehead motor new stuff ou operation Hi Doug and Chris, Doug can probably not yet run the whole thing just on capacitors. His system is also like the Newman system dependand on batteries. So I would suggest also to study the effects on the batteries involved, as Cyril Smith said, this must be done carefully to see, how the ions inside the battery react to the back current pulses... A battery is a complicated system and Doug should try to run it on different types of batteries and see, how different he can build up the charging... Another question is, how long will the batteries last and maybe they will be killed faster this way, because the charging is too fast... ? Newman also killed lots of batteries with his back current HV pulses ! A good test would be to get a 10 Watts 12 Volts Halogen incand. bulb and hook it up to his battery alone and measure the voltage drop versus time, until it reached say 5 Volts from 12 Volts starting. Note this time duration and then hook up Doug´s motor to the battery and run the halogen lamp also with it connected to the battery terminals. Now this should keep the lamp longer burning until the 5 volts are reached, or maybe the voltage just will stay at about 12 Volts, if the back currents are enough to charge the battery. I agree, that it would be preffered to let the system just run on charged capacitors, so maybe then it would be needed to hook a generator to the shaft and produce DC output for a feedback loop to the motor and use his coils to rectify his back emf voltage and feed this back to the capacitors, that run the motor. So Doug, first try it with different battery manufacturer brands to see, if there is a difference in the batteries acting to the back current spikes.. and please try the halogen lamp test. Thanks ! Good luck ! Best regards, Stefan. CHRIS KUELZOW schrieb: > > Dear Doug, > Great progress on this. I also saw interesting effects related to the > spark when doing my newman tests. But you seem to be able to get some > real power out. Are you planing to attempt a self runner? > Regards, > Chris Kuelzow > > Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Betreff: Konehead motor new stuff > > Datum: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:43:06 -0700 > > Von: "Doug Konzen" > > An: "Stefan Hartmann" > > > > Hi Stefan > > > > I have tried to post a couple things on JNL but they never show up --- > > do > > you know anything about this or have you seen my last fairly-long post I > > wrote this morning about "overunity operation" of my motor?? > > > >SNIP -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 27 07:26:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA26288; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 07:25:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 07:25:51 -0700 Message-ID: <39F99D15.655DF0D8@harti.com> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:19:49 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Schnurer , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3xhHl3.0.SQ6.k1P-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17317 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Step charging experiment verified ? Here again ! replace C1 with an electret ! Now toggle s1 switch back and forth and then C2 will charge up ! The higher the electret voltage be, the better it will work. You have to view this with a font, that has equal distance ! Or just copy this to Notepad ! +---+ | | ----| ^d1 | | * s1 | | =c1 /*--+ =c2 | * | | ----| ^d2 | | | +---+ John Schnurer schrieb: > > What is the use you want to put electrets? > > J -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 27 08:39:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA25100; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:37:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:37:51 -0700 From: "Stefano Innocenti" To: "freenrg-l" Subject: Re: [FG]: Methernitha publishes free energy claim ! Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:38:35 +0200 Message-ID: <01c0402b$f8032160$3900fd80@zio-stefo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"dsLzk3.0.z76.E5Q-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17318 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Stefan Hartmann A: Free Energy ; Newman-L Mailing List ; jlnlabs@egroups.com ; ou-builders@egroups.com Data: venerdì 27 ottobre 2000 4.08 Oggetto: [FG]: Methernitha publishes free energy claim ! >Thestatica. >(wording for "Testing the electrostatics", slang in Switzerlands German >language) > Hi all, according Stefan Marinov, The word 'testatika' was created joining "Tesla" and "Electrostatic"... if I remember exactly... ciao, Stefano -------------------------Stefano Innocenti --------------------------- http://utenti.tripod.it/altraenergia http://utenti.tripod.it/missilistica From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 27 10:14:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA31429; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:13:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:13:44 -0700 From: hatch_david@ti.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:12:48 -0700 Message-ID: X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on CORAL/BB1(Release 5.0.3 |March 21, 2000) at 10/27/2000 10:22:18 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"XqBN2.0.wg7.7VR-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17319 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: [FG] Running engines with water/alcohol >>>>From: "Lori Garrett" >>>>in the'60s we used water injectors on race cars and a big problem we had >>>>was >>>>that when we ran alcohol with with them the pistons would develop small >>>>holes just like someone took a drill and drilled them >>> So does this only happen with alcohol??? >>> Timothy. >Yes, Timothy, this only happened with alcohol and not gasoline. It can be done with gas. >Alcohol runs cooler than gasoline. Yes. Alcohol flame temp.: 1870 - 1920 C depending on meth/ethanol ratio 'regular' unleaded : 2030 C But you were probably running the alcohol too lean. Even with gas, too lean a mixture will burn holes in your pistons. The other 'problem' with alcohol is you need to 'pickle' the engine by running straight gas through it to get the alcohol out. Same goes for water injection. David Hatch (now back to my lurking spot) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 27 12:21:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA20041; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:20:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:20:45 -0700 Message-ID: <39F9D26D.3F042A98@harti.com> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 20:07:25 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <01c0402b$f8032160$3900fd80@zio-stefo> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UQf0K.0.ou4.DMT-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17320 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: testatika name > > >Thestatica. > >(wording for "Testing the electrostatics", slang in Switzerlands German > >language) > > > > Hi all, > > according Stefan Marinov, The word 'testatika' was created joining "Tesla" > and "Electrostatic"... if I remember exactly... No I don´t think so. I was told when I was there it was composed out of the words: "Testa di Statica" which seems to be a switzerlands slang dialect language... Which means: "testing the electrostatics" later it was made easier to speak and now they just call them "Testatika" machines. > > ciao, Stefano > > -------------------------Stefano Innocenti --------------------------- > http://utenti.tripod.it/altraenergia http://utenti.tripod.it/missilistica -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 27 15:12:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA22204; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:11:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <39FA09EA.B53193E1@harti.com> Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:04:10 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , info@methernitha.com X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1AVJQ3.0.fQ5.orV-v"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17321 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: New color small Testatika model picture uploaded ! Hi all, due to the recent conversation about the reverse engineering of the smaller 300 Watts Testatika machine, I have scanned now a COLOR picture of an old Raum- and Zeit magazine from 1989, where they had this picture on the cover. It now is pretty huge. 2000 x 1800 pixels in JPEG format about 510 Kbytes. So you can see all the details You can find it here: http://www.overunity.com/testatika/testa300.jpg -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 27 20:02:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA24514; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 20:01:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 20:01:48 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001027215720.00c456b0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:02:39 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: zero gravity In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"DoLn2.0.s-5.S6a-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17322 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sounds up and up to me...:-) But here is a thought. If you act on objects inside the craft you wont move... the forces between the AG and the mass in the craft would balance. You would have to use the AG separate from the craft or use it on objects outside the craft. Ether way you would end up taking the dirt and rocks and anything that isn't tied down with you. At 08:14 PM 10/25/00 -0700, you wrote: >same would go if you altered the field so as to propel your craft >forwards... you would be pulled forwards to the front of the ship... Of >coarse it would not have to be micro gravity, if you did a zero to sixty >in .2 seconds then you would be platted to the inside of the windshield... >Mass has to be countered and moved with force and the force used to >counter the mass and move the mass would be equal and opposite... Simply >Newton's law right??? > >Timothy... Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 27 20:49:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA06399; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 20:49:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 20:49:18 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001027222855.00cc6ef0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:50:00 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design In-Reply-To: <39f9e230.695253761@mail.midiowa.net> References: <4.2.0.58.20001026155851.00967db0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001026102915.00957e10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001023203115.00c54e50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001023203115.00c54e50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001026102915.00957e10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001026155851.00967db0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"6CEON1.0.uZ1.zoa-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17323 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I knew someone would ask that... I have ben making them since I was a little critter. First to entertain myself.. then my children and now..... Any way... You take a square flat piece of material. You mark the center and cut in from each corner 2/3 of the way... then you fold (do not crease) the corners in and fasten them as close to the center as possible (try it with paper first then move up to firmer materials (metal is trickery and I welded the tips to the center after I mounted the center shaft.) I think there is a reason for the high torque. The air inters through an open side and is funneled towards the center. This action causes torsion at the shaft but as the air escapes from the center of the blade it blows directly on the next blade... at a right angle. causing additional torque.. This thing is not balanced and it wobbles like crazy. but I believe it is rugged enough to put up with some real wind. They actually work better faced directly into the wind but that will require some sort of rig to direct the thing. Its set up to measure wind speed VS current into a 13.5V battery now all I need is some wind..... and tonight.... not a puff But although I cannot measure what little wind there is the pinwheel spins a little.... At 02:08 AM 10/27/00 +0000, you wrote: >On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:33:39 -0500, Charles Ford >wrote: > > >Ever make a pinwheel? > >Nope. > > >Well if you run air through it from the side it has to make two turns to > >get out the other side. Each turn is against an adjacent fold of the > >pinwheel and adds to the torque. > >Do you know of a picture so I could try one? > > >They produce quite a bit of torque but are not much on RPMs > > >How small where your models? Mine is about 2 1/2 foot wide > >About the same size, but nothing like what you're describing. And >they were unstable. (I made the first one out of plastic IC shipping >containers and mylar film.) > > > (cut from a > >4X4 sheet of .010 sheet metal.) and requires about a 3 to one gear up (or > >pulley) to run a chevy alternator. I recommend a thicker sheet as I am > >concerned about just when this one will fly apart. > >Sounds interesting. > >I thought that a standard pinwheel only worked when it's face is >pointed into the wind. I'll have to investigate this. > >-- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 27 21:39:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA22587; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:38:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:38:41 -0700 Message-ID: <39FA5848.637408FF@groupz.net> Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:38:32 -0400 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siwpfcuinhq,x-ns2r2d09onmpe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design References: <4.2.0.58.20001026155851.00967db0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001026102915.00957e10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001023203115.00c54e50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001023203115.00c54e50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001026102915.00957e10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001026155851.00967db0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001027222855.00cc6ef0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lsE6T2.0.mW5.GXb-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17324 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I have always wondered if anyone has ever done an efficiency study of a pinwheel... wether it could be used on a wind generator... or maybe with a hydropower generator....steve Charles Ford wrote: > > I knew someone would ask that... > > I have ben making them since I was a little critter. First to entertain > myself.. then my children and now..... > > Any way... You take a square flat piece of material. You mark the > center and cut in from each corner 2/3 of the way... then you fold (do > not crease) the corners in and fasten them as close to the center as > possible (try it with paper first then move up to firmer materials (metal > is trickery and I welded the tips to the center after I mounted the center > shaft.) > > I think there is a reason for the high torque. The air inters through an > open side and is funneled towards the center. This action causes torsion > at the shaft but as the air escapes from the center of the blade it blows > directly on the next blade... at a right angle. causing additional > torque.. This thing is not balanced and it wobbles like crazy. but I > believe it is rugged enough to put up with some real wind. > > They actually work better faced directly into the wind but that will > require some sort of rig to direct the thing. > > Its set up to measure wind speed VS current into a 13.5V battery now all > I need is some wind..... and tonight.... not a puff But although I > cannot measure what little wind there is the pinwheel spins a little.... > > At 02:08 AM 10/27/00 +0000, you wrote: > >On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:33:39 -0500, Charles Ford > >wrote: > > > > >Ever make a pinwheel? > > > >Nope. > > > > >Well if you run air through it from the side it has to make two turns to > > >get out the other side. Each turn is against an adjacent fold of the > > >pinwheel and adds to the torque. > > > >Do you know of a picture so I could try one? > > > > >They produce quite a bit of torque but are not much on RPMs > > > > >How small where your models? Mine is about 2 1/2 foot wide > > > >About the same size, but nothing like what you're describing. And > >they were unstable. (I made the first one out of plastic IC shipping > >containers and mylar film.) > > > > > (cut from a > > >4X4 sheet of .010 sheet metal.) and requires about a 3 to one gear up (or > > >pulley) to run a chevy alternator. I recommend a thicker sheet as I am > > >concerned about just when this one will fly apart. > > > >Sounds interesting. > > > >I thought that a standard pinwheel only worked when it's face is > >pointed into the wind. I'll have to investigate this. > > > >-- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) > > Charlie Ford > cjford1@yahoo.com > cjford1@swbell.net > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 28 00:47:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA24810; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:46:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:46:49 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.57.55.1] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:46:17 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Oct 2000 07:46:17.0998 (UTC) FILETIME=[27F3B2E0:01C040B3] Resent-Message-ID: <"6a99.0.Z36.fHe-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17325 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Charles... simple question... do you point it up or down??? have you ever tried making two one left and one right then placing the "back to back" and then mounting them??? wind does not just blow strait across level to the ground it always has an up and/or down quality to it... so it seams that this would take advantage of that force too??? Good Ideas Charles... Simple and workable... I like it... Timothy... >From: Charles Ford >I knew someone would ask that... > >I have ben making them since I was a little critter. First to entertain >myself.. then my children and now..... > > >Any way... You take a square flat piece of material. You mark the >center and cut in from each corner 2/3 of the way... then you fold (do >not crease) the corners in and fasten them as close to the center as >possible (try it with paper first then move up to firmer materials (metal >is trickery and I welded the tips to the center after I mounted the center >shaft.) > >I think there is a reason for the high torque. The air inters through an >open side and is funneled towards the center. This action causes torsion >at the shaft but as the air escapes from the center of the blade it blows >directly on the next blade... at a right angle. causing additional >torque.. This thing is not balanced and it wobbles like crazy. but I >believe it is rugged enough to put up with some real wind. > >They actually work better faced directly into the wind but that will >require some sort of rig to direct the thing. > >Its set up to measure wind speed VS current into a 13.5V battery now all >I need is some wind..... and tonight.... not a puff But although I >cannot measure what little wind there is the pinwheel spins a little.... > >At 02:08 AM 10/27/00 +0000, you wrote: >>On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:33:39 -0500, Charles Ford >>wrote: >> >> >Ever make a pinwheel? >> >>Nope. >> >> >Well if you run air through it from the side it has to make two turns to >> >get out the other side. Each turn is against an adjacent fold of the >> >pinwheel and adds to the torque. >> >>Do you know of a picture so I could try one? >> >> >They produce quite a bit of torque but are not much on RPMs >> >> >How small where your models? Mine is about 2 1/2 foot wide >> >>About the same size, but nothing like what you're describing. And >>they were unstable. (I made the first one out of plastic IC shipping >>containers and mylar film.) >> >> > (cut from a >> >4X4 sheet of .010 sheet metal.) and requires about a 3 to one gear up >>(or >> >pulley) to run a chevy alternator. I recommend a thicker sheet as I >>am >> >concerned about just when this one will fly apart. >> >>Sounds interesting. >> >>I thought that a standard pinwheel only worked when it's face is >>pointed into the wind. I'll have to investigate this. >> >>-- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) > >Charlie Ford >cjford1@yahoo.com >cjford1@swbell.net > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 28 00:50:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA25951; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:50:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:50:17 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.57.55.1] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:49:45 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Oct 2000 07:49:45.0994 (UTC) FILETIME=[A3ED5EA0:01C040B3] Resent-Message-ID: <"0-NKV2.0.OL6.vKe-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17326 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ever see the impellers on Niagara falls??? they look very much like a pinwheel... Same with a turbo charger impeller... only truncated... Timothy... >From: sno >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: [FG]: Problems with Frenette Design >Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:38:32 -0400 > >I have always wondered if anyone has ever >done an efficiency study of a pinwheel... >wether it could be used on a wind generator... >or maybe with a hydropower generator....steve > >Charles Ford wrote: > > > > I knew someone would ask that... > > > > I have ben making them since I was a little critter. First to >entertain > > myself.. then my children and now..... > > > > Any way... You take a square flat piece of material. You mark the > > center and cut in from each corner 2/3 of the way... then you fold (do > > not crease) the corners in and fasten them as close to the center as > > possible (try it with paper first then move up to firmer materials >(metal > > is trickery and I welded the tips to the center after I mounted the >center > > shaft.) > > > > I think there is a reason for the high torque. The air inters through >an > > open side and is funneled towards the center. This action causes >torsion > > at the shaft but as the air escapes from the center of the blade it >blows > > directly on the next blade... at a right angle. causing additional > > torque.. This thing is not balanced and it wobbles like crazy. but >I > > believe it is rugged enough to put up with some real wind. > > > > They actually work better faced directly into the wind but that will > > require some sort of rig to direct the thing. > > > > Its set up to measure wind speed VS current into a 13.5V battery now >all > > I need is some wind..... and tonight.... not a puff But although I > > cannot measure what little wind there is the pinwheel spins a little.... > > > > At 02:08 AM 10/27/00 +0000, you wrote: > > >On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:33:39 -0500, Charles Ford > > >wrote: > > > > > > >Ever make a pinwheel? > > > > > >Nope. > > > > > > >Well if you run air through it from the side it has to make two turns >to > > > >get out the other side. Each turn is against an adjacent fold of the > > > >pinwheel and adds to the torque. > > > > > >Do you know of a picture so I could try one? > > > > > > >They produce quite a bit of torque but are not much on RPMs > > > > > > >How small where your models? Mine is about 2 1/2 foot wide > > > > > >About the same size, but nothing like what you're describing. And > > >they were unstable. (I made the first one out of plastic IC shipping > > >containers and mylar film.) > > > > > > > (cut from a > > > >4X4 sheet of .010 sheet metal.) and requires about a 3 to one gear >up (or > > > >pulley) to run a chevy alternator. I recommend a thicker sheet as >I am > > > >concerned about just when this one will fly apart. > > > > > >Sounds interesting. > > > > > >I thought that a standard pinwheel only worked when it's face is > > >pointed into the wind. I'll have to investigate this. > > > > > >-- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) > > > > Charlie Ford > > cjford1@yahoo.com > > cjford1@swbell.net > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 28 02:34:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA07917; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 02:34:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 02:34:11 -0700 Message-ID: <39FAAA29.1C3311B9@harti.com> Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 11:27:53 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"v2F9l.0.Yx1.Jsf-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17327 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Fwd: Konehead motor new stuff ou operation -------- Original Message -------- Betreff: Re: Konehead motor new stuff ou operation Datum: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:26:31 -0700 Von: "Doug Konzen" An: hi Stefan thanks for posting that email you can post this too if you want... Yes for sure you should try reed switches all in paralell on your JNewman motor... think of them firing electrically paralell, but series in time!! What was really nice to see was the way the voltage of the battery stayed nice and level with just the two switches, and rose-up to 15V when I switched to the four... I think I can control it now... There seems to really be something here with adding extra switches... the reed switches are filled with gas too... do you know what type? a TV repairman told me that they use reed switches all over the place in VCRs and tape machines - they are supposed to last for years, so we will see how they survive the flashback energy... so far so good - I am going to try a honey-comb cluster of 5 (total of ten)---- these are really big ones I am using now, and slow, but you can always advance the timing.... I found that speed is not necessarily the best "bounce power" of this motor... the volts would rise inside a very narrow sliver of the timing adjsutment...and this wasnt best when the motor was going full-speed as it could do, so that is something very interesting and good to know...must be a resonance like hitting an octave-feedback note on a electric guitar.... Before I would watch my tach when setting the timing, now I watch the voltmeter across the battery to find the best spot. I am beginning to actually hear when it reaches the OU timing - there is kind of a dumpa-dumpa the coils and magnets make that happens at the same time the volts start to climb on the meter... this is probably when the coils match up completely and equally in their firings.... I think once I get the reed switching down and tested, I can get a self-runner with caps only --- the extra juice can come from the space between the pulses, by filling a small cap with the recoil and ring of the coils during the "dead-space" and pulsing this at the right time, plus I have the energy from pickup windings and splatter windings to add too.... Here is a picture illustrating the dead-space extraction with a small cap and rectifier, and timed back into the motor with the rotating reed switch: have you seen this???? it is really important and works great...Calloway and Bedini do this....it is the water-wheel approach to adding energy to a system... ....a rotating water-wheel going clocckwise will need its water to be poured ON TOP and to THE RIGHT of the wheel.. any water added to the wheel on the left will slow or stop the wheel.. it is the same with adding electrical energy: http://homepages.go.com/~enzok/caprechargecircuit.JPG ciao Konehead From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 28 02:46:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA10195; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 02:45:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 02:45:56 -0700 Message-ID: <39FAACFF.6C8D1398@harti.com> Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 11:39:59 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Charles Ford , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , Free Energy , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Step charging experiment verified ? References: <4.2.0.58.20001027231001.00bf2f00@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DwKwV3.0.7V2.J1g-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17328 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Charles Ford schrieb: > > OK... > > Here is the deal.... > > When you toggle the switch on a non charged cap... well... I used a > toggle switch and it makes the real tech click sound :-) > > if there is a charge (any charge) you slowly begin to charge C2 > > So my sample works > > Here is why... > > When the through connects to the positive pole the wire connected is > charged to that voltage. The appropriate diode conducts momentarily > shifting the charge of C2. When you connect to the negative, the same > thing happens shifting the charge to negative. with repeated toggling C2 > gradually charges up... and up... and up. > > but at a cost... You drain C1 > How much did you drain C1 ? Did you make a quantitive analysis ? The OU energy will come from the small arc which is created by the corona discharge, shortly before contact and shortly after contact. For d1 and d2 you should also use 10 diodes in series, so there is less feedback and a higher leackage blocking... also C1 and C2 should be placed this way, that capacitice coupling is pretty low.. Now do a quantitative analysis of the voltages and the capacitances via 0.5 x C x V^2 What caps did you use ? 2 x 1 uF ? What is the voltage at each cap after the experiment ? Do you have a very high ohmic digital voltmeter or scope to measure the voltages without dischargig them ? (around 100 MegaOhm) > To verify I connected a large piece of foil to the through and C2 charged > much more rapidly. C1 also drained more rapidly. > > Hmmm.... fastenating... Please do a quantitative measurement. What have been your starting voltage at c1 ? This is also import ! The higher the better... Start at least with 600 Volts or more.. It really depends on the small arcs when contat is made... There is additional charge built up... during the arcing.. > > Charlie Ford > cjford1@yahoo.com > cjford1@swbell.net > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 28 13:12:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA28547; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:11:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:11:19 -0700 Message-Id: <200010282010.HAA10075@turbo.turboweb.net.au> X-Mailer: Eudora Pro 1.1 for Newton Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 20:59:00 +1100 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" From: Allan Alderson Subject: Re: [FG]: zero gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"LFc0y1.0.yz6.cBp-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17329 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:14:32 PDT, Timothy Flytch wrote: [snip] > >Of >coarse it would not have to be micro gravity, if you did a zero to sixty in >..2 seconds then you would be platted to the inside of the windshield... Mass >has to be countered and moved with force and the force used to counter the >mass and move the mass would be equal and opposite... Simply Newton's law >right??? Well... If you knew how to remove the effects of another mass, presumably you could simply remove the effects of acceleration. Aren't they the same thing? . - Allan. ---- ---- ---- ---- Please reply with 'Plain-text'. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 28 13:13:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA26301; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:12:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:12:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005501c0411a$c165c000$553dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:07:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0052_01C040F9.389FB940" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"7gbZC3.0.mQ6.VCp-v"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17330 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: LED circuit paradox This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C040F9.389FB940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gentlemen; Finally was able to scratch up some cash and order a set of high = intensity blue GaN LEDs from Hosfelt Electronics. The pieces I ordered are apparently Panasonic GaN blues, rated at = 6000 mcd at 10 mA. Supernova bright...almost spooky. This is somewhat of an overview, by the way. I would be happy to go = over specific numbers with any who are interested by private e-mail, but = I won't waste bytes here. Essentially; 1. I set up a 5 branch parallel circuit with 2 D cells, and one GaN LED = in each branch. In series with each GaN, I placed a 500 ohm pot to = provide variable R. At the positive "trunk" of the circuit, I installed = a 100 ohm pot, also set up as a 0 to 100 ohm variable R. The LEDs and = pots were wired with soldered pigtails that were intentionally = disordered to simulate Sam's arrangement. 2. With different branch and trunk R settings, I made a set of = measurement runs, to try to bracket and define Sam Faile's claimed = anomaly. I used both voltage drop over R, and direct mA meter insertion = at branch and trunk points to measure currents. 3. With trunk and branch Rs set to zero, letting the voltage drop of = the LEDs match the battery potential, I replicated Sam's basic claim of = current anomaly using the meter insertion method. (Meter is a Fluke 77). = Arithmetic sum of the branches was typically about 28 mA, while the = total measured at the trunk was generally around 19.5 mA. Thus, I gave = the "anomaly" a value of about 43% 4. By adjusting the pots to provide trunk and or branch resistance = values, the degree of the anomaly (again measured by the break out = method) went down considerably. There seemed to be little difference = between setting a trunk resistance, or setting up an equivalent R at the = branches. At a trunk resistor value of 100 ohms, the anomaly, or = difference between arthmetic sum and measured sum, dropped to about 5%. 5. Now, when the branch and trunk R values were set at some easy to = calculate value, and voltage drops were taken, thus to calculate current = from E/R, the anomaly factor pretty well went away, although it = generally seemed driven to ere on the OPPOSITE side by about 2 to 3 % = (the branch current sums ended up being less than the total - sort of an = inverse "anomaly") I think Charley Ford might have seen this as well. 6. If one compared the "meter insertion" method with the voltage drop = method of current measurement, the methods actually agreed very closely = at the individual branches. The disagreement, and thus the source of = the "anomaly" seems to be related to the trunk current. 7. When forward biased, the GaN blues do indeed seem to produce RF = noise. I used my Tektronix and saw about 50mVp-p of hash seemingly well = over 50 MHz. The amplitude is greatest when the LED is just barely on = (as one might suspect) By the time you get up to a rated current of 10 = mA, it is pretty well gone. 8. Placing a 100uH inductor in the trunk of the circuit actually drove = the anomaly up past 50%, again when measured with the meter insertion = method. This puzzles the dickens out of me, as I thought that blocking = the RF might make the whole circuit lawful again. Might have been = setting up a resonant condition, though. 9. Replacing the GaN blues with old GaAsP greens pretty well eliminated = the anomaly, driving to below 3% value. Still a hint of it, though. = This is also bothersome, conceptually. 10. The anomaly, in it's basic Faile discovered form does indeed scale = up with more LED branches. Two LEDs only produced about 3% anomaly (as = opposed to 40% or so with 5 LEDs!) So there I am. The GaN LED current anomaly once again is = reproducible, but is it real to begin with? The consensus among the = techs I talk to is that the meter insertion method is the likely = culpret. Yet the fact that the anomaly does indeed seem related to GaN = diodes is curious, as well as the increase with added L. But both those = factors may likely be related to the RF emissions. The best route now, it seems, is for Sam or I (or someone) to try a = circuit with dozens of GaNs in parallel to try to scale the effect up to = a ridiculous looking level, then test it again rigorously to see if it = is real. Sam is trying to get a line on about 100 of the units. The = real test will come if one can shine all of these LED rays onto a = photocell, and get more current out than one is supplying. Ah, sweet = dreams... NR ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C040F9.389FB940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gentlemen;
 
   Finally was able to = scratch up some=20 cash and order a set of high intensity blue GaN LEDs from Hosfelt=20 Electronics.
   The pieces I ordered are = apparently=20 Panasonic GaN blues, rated at 6000 mcd at 10 mA.  Supernova = bright...almost=20 spooky.
 
   This is somewhat of an = overview, by=20 the way.  I would be happy to go over specific numbers with any who = are=20 interested by private e-mail, but I won't waste bytes here. =20 Essentially;
 
1.  I set up a 5 branch parallel = circuit with=20 2 D cells, and one GaN LED in each branch.  In series with each = GaN, I=20 placed a 500 ohm pot to provide variable R.  At the positive = "trunk" of the=20 circuit, I installed a 100 ohm pot, also set up as a 0 to 100 ohm = variable=20 R.  The LEDs and pots were wired with soldered pigtails that were=20 intentionally disordered to simulate Sam's arrangement.
 
2.  With different branch and = trunk R=20 settings, I made a set of measurement runs, to try to bracket and define = Sam=20 Faile's claimed anomaly.  I used both voltage drop over R, and = direct mA=20 meter insertion at branch and trunk points to measure = currents.
 
3.  With trunk and branch Rs set = to zero,=20 letting the voltage drop of the LEDs match the battery potential, I = replicated=20 Sam's basic claim of current anomaly using the meter insertion method. = (Meter is=20 a Fluke 77).  Arithmetic sum of the branches was typically about 28 = mA,=20 while the total measured at the trunk was generally around 19.5 = mA.  Thus,=20 I gave the "anomaly" a value of about 43%
 
4.  By adjusting the pots to = provide trunk and=20 or branch resistance values, the degree of the anomaly (again measured = by the=20 break out method) went down considerably.  There seemed to be = little=20 difference between setting a trunk resistance, or setting up an = equivalent R at=20 the branches.  At a trunk resistor value of 100 ohms, the anomaly, = or=20 difference between arthmetic sum and measured sum, dropped to about=20 5%.
 
5.  Now, when the branch and trunk = R values=20 were set at some easy to calculate value, and voltage drops were taken, = thus to=20 calculate current from E/R, the anomaly factor pretty well went away, = although=20 it generally seemed driven to ere on the OPPOSITE side by about 2 to 3 % = (the=20 branch current sums ended up being less than the total - sort of an = inverse=20 "anomaly")  I think Charley Ford might have seen this as = well.
 
6.  If one compared the "meter = insertion"=20 method with the voltage drop method of current measurement, the methods = actually=20 agreed very closely at the individual branches.  The disagreement, = and thus=20 the source of the "anomaly" seems to be related to the trunk=20 current.
 
7.  When forward biased, the GaN = blues do=20 indeed seem to produce RF noise.  I used my Tektronix and saw about = 50mVp-p=20 of hash seemingly well over 50 MHz.  The amplitude is greatest when = the LED=20 is just barely on (as one might suspect)  By the time you get up to = a rated=20 current of 10 mA, it is pretty well gone.
 
8.  Placing a 100uH inductor in = the trunk of=20 the circuit actually drove the anomaly up past 50%, again when measured = with the=20 meter insertion method.  This puzzles the dickens out of me, as I = thought=20 that blocking the RF might make the whole circuit lawful again.  = Might have=20 been setting up a resonant condition, though.
 
9.  Replacing the GaN blues with = old GaAsP=20 greens pretty well eliminated the anomaly, driving to below 3% = value. =20 Still a hint of it, though.  This is also bothersome,=20 conceptually.
 
10.  The anomaly, in it's basic = Faile=20 discovered form does indeed scale up with more LED branches.  Two = LEDs only=20 produced about 3% anomaly (as opposed to 40% or so with 5 = LEDs!)
 
   So there I am.  The = GaN LED=20 current anomaly once again is reproducible, but is it real to begin = with? =20 The consensus among the techs I talk to is that the meter insertion = method is=20 the likely culpret.  Yet the fact that the anomaly does indeed seem = related=20 to GaN diodes is curious, as well as the increase with added L.  = But both=20 those factors may likely be related to the RF emissions.
 
   The best route now, it = seems, is for=20 Sam or I (or someone) to try a circuit with dozens of GaNs in parallel = to try to=20 scale the effect up to a ridiculous looking level, then test it again = rigorously=20 to see if it is real.  Sam is trying to get a line on about 100 of = the=20 units.  The real test will come if one can shine all of these LED = rays onto=20 a photocell, and get more current out than one is supplying.  Ah, = sweet=20 dreams...
 
NR
------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C040F9.389FB940-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 28 13:47:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA04353; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:46:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:46:58 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: LED circuit paradox Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 07:46:19 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <005501c0411a$c165c000$553dee3f@default> In-Reply-To: <005501c0411a$c165c000$553dee3f@default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA04329 Resent-Message-ID: <"Xbciv2.0.w31.2jp-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17331 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Nick Reiter's message of Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:07:50 -0400: [snip] > The best route now, it seems, is for Sam or I (or someone) to try a circuit with dozens of GaNs in parallel to try to scale the effect up to a ridiculous looking level, then test it again rigorously to see if it is real. Sam is trying to get a line o n about 100 of the units. The real test will come if one can shine all of these LED rays onto a photocell, and get more current out than one is supplying. Ah, sweet dreams... > >NR Hi Nick, Perhaps I am being overly naive, but if you write to the LED supplier, and explain what you are doing and how it could open up a whole new market for them, they might be inclined to lend you the necessary LEDs. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 28 15:57:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA04656; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 15:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 15:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002101c04131$cc273b60$1f3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <005501c0411a$c165c000$553dee3f@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: LED circuit paradox Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 18:52:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"K61JQ3.0.b81.8dr-v"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17332 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > In reply to Nick Reiter's message of Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:07:50 -0400: > [snip] > > The best route now, it seems, is for Sam or I (or someone) to try a circuit with dozens of GaNs in parallel to try to scale the effect up to a ridiculous looking level, then test it again rigorously to see if it is real. Sam is trying to get a line on about 100 of the units. The real test will come if one can shine all of these LED rays onto a photocell, and get more current out than one is supplying. Ah, sweet dreams... > > > >NR > Hi Nick, > > Perhaps I am being overly naive, but if you write to the LED supplier, and > explain what you are doing and how it could open up a whole new market for > them, they might be inclined to lend you the necessary LEDs. > > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk ******* Thanks for the input. Actually, Sam is working that angle with Nichia right now. We'll see where he gets with it. Since the company I work for has had some affiliations with the University of Toledo, maybe I can work out some sort of a college or university discount for purchase. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 28 17:25:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA24990; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 17:25:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 17:25:00 -0700 Message-ID: <005301c0413e$a8244160$a75cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 20:24:47 -0400 Organization: Unconventional Conventionalists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"a0jad.0.H66.Qvs-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17333 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: how NOT to extract energy from gravity We need a workable large-scale space energy generator before they get started on this project: > Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:09:49 -0800 > Subject: Digging Dams with Nukes in China > From: Jim Martin > > from: > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=003673231207432&rtmo=lnoFuH7t&atmo=tttttttd&pg= > /et/00/10/22/wchin22.html > > CHINESE leaders are drawing up plans to use nuclear explosions, in breach of > the international test-ban treaty, to blast a tunnel through the Himalayas > for the world's biggest hydroelectric plant. > > The proposed power station is forecast to produce more than twice as much > electricity as the controversial Three Gorges Dam being built on the Yangtze > river. The project, which also involves diverting Tibetan water to arid > regions, is due to begin as soon as construction of the Three Gorges Dam is > completed in 2009. > > China will have to overcome fierce opposition from neighbouring countries > who fear that the scheme could endanger the lives and livelihoods of > millions of their people. Critics say that those living downstream would be > at the mercy of Chinese dam officials who would be able to flood them or > withhold their water supply. > > International opposition may bar Beijing from World Bank loans for the > project and prevent it from listing bonds and shares on world markets to > fund the scheme. If, as its experts believe, China has to use nuclear > materials in order to blast the proposed 10-mile tunnel, the country will > attract international opprobrium for breaching the Comprehensive Test Ban > Treaty. > > Nuclear devices have been used in the past by Russia for engineering > schemes, but the United States has rejected their use for civil projects on > safety grounds. Last week, China's state-run media reported that the project > would form part of a national strategy to divert water from rivers in the > south and west to drought-stricken northern areas. The reports said that a > 38 million kilowatt power station at Muotuo on the Yarlung Zangbo river in > Tibet would harness the force of a 9,840ft drop in terrain over only a few > miles. > > The capacity of the station would make it the world's largest power > generation facility, much bigger than the 18 million kilowatt plant at the > Three Gorges. The cost of drilling the tunnel through Mount Namcha Barwa has > not yet been announced, but appears likely to surpass 10 billion. > > At the bottom of the tunnel, the water will flow into a new reservoir and > then be diverted along more than 500 miles of the Tibetan plateau to the > vast, arid areas of Xinjiang region and Gansu province. Beijing wants to use > large quantities of the plentiful waters of the south-west to top up the > Yellow River basin and assuage mounting discontent over water shortages in > 600 cities in northern China. > > The government said last week that it would fund three huge water-diversion > schemes in the west, centre and east of the country to quench the north's > thirst. The proposal to dam and divert the Yarlung Zangbo as part of the > western leg of this policy has drawn fire from several Chinese scientists. > > Yang Yong, a geologist who has explored the river, said the dam could become > an embarrassing white elephant amid growing signs that the volume of water > flowing in the Yarlung Zangpo could shrink. He said: "Environmental > conditions in the upper reaches of the river continue to deteriorate, with > glaciers receding and tributaries and lakes going dry." > > Tibetan activists have warned that the plans are likely to devastate the > lower reaches of the Yarlung Zangbo, which flows south where it becomes the > Brahmaputra. This river irrigates the northern plains of Assam state in > India before flowing through Bangladesh and emptying into the Bay of Bengal. > > Lorne Stockman, of the International Tibet Support Group Network, said: "The > countries downstream are at the mercy of China in regard to the water flows > >from the Yarlung Zangbo. During the dry season, the water will be held back > to keep the water reservoir full for power generation, and during the > monsoon season, the Chinese will be compelled to release the water in > bursts." > > The Soviet-trained engineers who dominate China's Communist hierarchy have > been tagged "dam fetishists" by opponents of their gargantuan hydropower > programme. The country has built more dams than the rest of the world > combined in the past 30 years and is responsible for the most controversial > of them all: the 6 billion Three Gorges project, which is displacing more > than 1.2 million people as it submerges towns and scenic and historical > sites. > > Senior government figures have announced that the dam-building programme > will be expanded in the next decade. Thirty-one large dams are currently on > the drawing board. Wen Jiabao, a Chinese vice-premier who is tipped to be > the next prime minister, said: "In the 21st century, the construction of > large dams will play a key role in exploiting China's water resources, > controlling floods and droughts, and pushing the national economy and the > country's modernisation forward." > > The new focus on the south and west as a source of energy has infuriated > China's neighbours. Dam projects under way or proposed have prompted > protests from countries as far apart as Kazakhstan and Vietnam. In addition > to the Brahmaputra river, development plans on the Tibetan plateau are set > to affect the flow of water out of China into the Mekong, Irrawaddy, Ganges > and Indus rivers. Earlier this month, Vietnam issued an unusual public > statement criticising the construction of a series of 14 dams on Chinese > stretches of the Mekong. > > Phan Thuy Thanh, a foreign ministry official, said: "We think that the use > of the Mekong should not cause any impact on the quality and quantity of > water in the river. It should ensure the sustainability of the ecological > environment of the entire river as well as legitimate and equal interest of > all the countries located in the basin." > > Vietnam is worried that sudden releases from Chinese reservoirs during the > rainy season could swell the annual death toll along the Mekong. More than > 600 people have been killed by floods this month - a figure that officials > fear could one day be dwarfed by any great rush of water from overburdened > Chinese dams. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 28 20:03:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA30656; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 20:02:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 20:02:32 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001028220252.00c45220@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 22:06:10 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"qeZGi.0.mU7.8Dv-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17334 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Pinwheel generator Mine is pointed up... got some wind today and I have made some measurements. I am having some trouble setting a level on the field coil... Also ... For the sake of future reference.. lets give the thread a new name At 12:46 AM 10/28/00 -0700, you wrote: >Charles... simple question... do you point it up or down??? have you ever >tried making two one left and one right then placing the "back to back" >and then mounting them??? wind does not just blow strait across level to >the ground it always has an up and/or down Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 28 20:34:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA09491; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 20:34:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 20:34:19 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39FB486E.21C707C8@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:43:10 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Step charging experiment verified ? References: <4.2.0.58.20001027231001.00bf2f00@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <39FAACFF.6C8D1398@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OmRDt.0.CK2.xgv-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17335 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Stefan Hartmann wrote: > How much did you drain C1 ? > Did you make a quantitive analysis ? > > The OU energy will come from the small arc which is created > by the corona discharge, shortly before contact > and shortly after contact. > > > > > Charlie Ford > > cjford1@yahoo.com > > cjford1@swbell.net > > Stefan, did you just accept some nutball's claim that this is OU, our have you tested it yourself? Why would a corona arc be O/u? Arcing is usually a sign of LOSING power, not creating it... :) Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 28 21:18:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA17943; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 21:18:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 21:18:21 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001028232012.00bda830@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 23:21:54 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: LED circuit paradox In-Reply-To: <002101c04131$cc273b60$1f3dee3f@default> References: <005501c0411a$c165c000$553dee3f@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"-7JKf.0.GO4.CKw-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17336 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 06:52 PM 10/28/00 -0400, you wrote: > > explain what you are doing and how it could open up a whole new market for > > them, they might be inclined to lend you the necessary LEDs. > > Lend heck... Most of them will give them to you... We call that an engineering sample. Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 28 22:26:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA31325; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 22:26:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 22:26:06 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.57.55.182] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: [FG] Running engines with water/alcohol Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 22:25:33 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Oct 2000 05:25:34.0194 (UTC) FILETIME=[A9773520:01C04168] Resent-Message-ID: <"SrnB33.0.Lf7.jJx-v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17337 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com LOL... Pickle... great term... :) >From: hatch_david@ti.com >The other 'problem' with alcohol is you need to 'pickle' the engine by >running >straight gas through it to get the alcohol out. Same goes for water >injection. > >David Hatch >(now back to my lurking spot) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 29 10:41:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA18384; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 10:41:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 10:41:16 -0800 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: <20.d4044cd.272dc93b@aol.com> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:40:59 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_20.d4044cd.272dc93b_boundary" X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"ADFGH.0.1V4.Bz6_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17338 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Final Report on Frenette Design Pt. 1 --part1_20.d4044cd.272dc93b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey guys, here's what I found out along with pics of the whole thing practically. In short, it don't work as I built it. Maybe it works if you build it exactly as the patent describes, but I doubt it. I made 2 different versions of the rotor and subjected them to the same tests and got a whopping nothing, almost. In a couple of cases, the outer housing did seem to be a bit warmer, like maybe 10 degrees, but that was it. The attached pic shows the housing and the original rotor. I corrected the spacing between the rotor and the housing by shaving down both the rotor and the housing. As you can see, I made both out of steel bar that I cut to size on a lathe. What kind of steel it was I can't say. Probably pretty low grade judging by the way it worked and looked. Also if it was high grade steel its doubtful it would have been in the scrap pile. Anyway, to test the thing I set it up in a milling machine (after placing the parts in the freezer for 15 minutes or so to remove any heat from the machining process) filled it with cutting oil first, ran it up to 3000 RPM and kept it there for about 5 min. When that didn't do anything I drained the cutting oil out and refilled the housing with Dextron III ATF Fluid and ran that at 3000 RPM for five minutes. With no heat being generated, I replaced the ATF with Pennzoil 10W30 and ran that up to 3000 + RPM. It was with this that I seemed to get a slight increase in heat and the oil had a slightly burned scent to it after being ran at speed for five minutes. Finally, I packed the housing with Vaseline and tried THAT! It didn't work either. So I made another rotor design to see if that would work. I'll have pics and the complete story on that one in my next posting. Brian Drake (Bmd2323@aol.com) ****** Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. ****** --part1_20.d4044cd.272dc93b_boundary Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="housing.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="housing.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAlgCWAAD//gAeTEVBRCBUZWNobm9sb2dpZXMgSW5jLiBWMS4wMf/b AEMAAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAgEBAQEBAgEBAQICAgICAgICAgMDBAMDAwMDAgIDBAMDBAQE BAQCAwUFBAQFBAQEBP/bAEMBAQEBAQEBAgEBAgQDAgMEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQE BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBP/AABEIALQA4wMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAfAAAA BQUBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwQHCAIFBgkKAQv/xABHEAACAQMDAgQDBQUGBAQFBQABAgMEBREG EiEAMQcTIkEIUWEJFDJxgRUWI5GhCiRCsdHwJSYzwUNy4fEXGERSgic0NmKU/8QAHAEAAAcB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQIDBAUGBwAI/8QAQxEAAQMCBAIFCAYJAwUAAAAAAQACAxEhBAUSMUFR BiJhcfAHEzKBobHB0RQzkrLD4RUjNEJSYnKR8RZTcyUmNkOC/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwDRVB9p N9obPsf/AOfj40ysla00pj+KbXTxhSTiNVFyBwcLgjAAyNvfE3fs9/jW+PXxa+MT4aNFaj+N 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qe40lxp5lrpZ/vTTMKiU0ocTQGIxNPJ5QjXYqYVTVdZDdUkiq50ElpqZ6iIsJIKqSOgrLgJH RgRuMiqp27QV3cbnkdx0Ol4SSBX+IfBHk4njb3K0UkoqIJxLDCyQWxqgIVJEj+TMNzNnd7J2 IHoH1y30bSMSGkclFp2D8Bv4gkb2GPSsQQHvtZslmO7odDqzZYAGuA7FD4wkuFTw+CfrR3hp Zbxpu13KpuN6jnqo3aRKaenjhBWWRfSphOPwg9+56HQ6HWjwQxGFhLRsOA5KiSYicSuAed+Z 5hf/2Q== --part1_20.d4044cd.272dc93b_boundary-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 29 21:09:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA19906; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:09:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:09:07 -0800 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001029193757.00c363a0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 20:13:42 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"qxbhu2.0.ts4.p9G_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17339 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Pinwheel windmil DANGER: These things fly apart in 60MPH T-storm indraft However I was able to maintain 55A for almost a minuet. Further.. the storm took out my DSL connection and phone service... and power... The lights are back on and the phone is finally working again. no DSL until tomorrow... So I a using an old 28.8 The Damage.... I think the alternator will be OK (after I clean the mud out of it) The rest of the assembly is a pile of twisted tin. Not to mention a perfectly good picket fence was very efficiently dismantled. The battery stayed put and appears to be undamaged. (a little luck) Here is what I learned. At about 25MPH there was enough torque to run the thing pretty well. I was able to maintain as much as 15A charge for long periods of time. Problems that occurred below that wind speed are that the device would not keep spiring. As I applied field current I could get a burst of current and the load would eat up all of the energy. Above 25MPH the opposite. I was unable to draw enough load to keep the thing calmed down to a "safe" RPM I am thinking I need several alternators and maybe find a sweet spot for the RPM Then regulate the RPM by adjusting the load Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 29 21:25:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA24823; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:25:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:25:15 -0800 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Pinwheel windmil Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 05:24:18 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Message-ID: <3a0004f5.966466004@mail.midiowa.net> References: <4.2.0.58.20001029193757.00c363a0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001029193757.00c363a0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA24796 Resent-Message-ID: <"kWCLU.0.m36.xOG_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17340 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 29 Oct 2000 20:13:42 -0600, Charles Ford wrote: >DANGER: > >These things fly apart in 60MPH T-storm indraft Hmm. How did it fly apart? Would better reinforcement at the axis help? >Here is what I learned. > >At about 25MPH there was enough torque to run the thing pretty well. I was >able to maintain as much as 15A charge for long periods of time. Problems >that occurred below that wind speed are that the device would not keep >spiring. As I applied field current I could get a burst of current and the >load would eat up all of the energy. > >Above 25MPH the opposite. I was unable to draw enough load to keep the >thing calmed down to a "safe" RPM > >I am thinking I need several alternators and maybe find a sweet spot for >the RPM Then regulate the RPM by adjusting the load Sounds good. What kind of drive belts and pulleys do you use? Can they take the strain enough to slow the pinwheel down? -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 29 23:05:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA13256; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:04:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:04:53 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Final Report on Frenette Design Pt. 1 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:04:16 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <20.d4044cd.272dc93b@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <20.d4044cd.272dc93b@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA13232 Resent-Message-ID: <"5DubY2.0.1F3.LsH_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17341 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Bmd2323@aol.com's message of Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:40:59 EST: >Hey guys, here's what I found out along with pics of the whole thing >practically. In short, it don't work as I built it. Maybe it works if you >build it exactly as the patent describes, but I doubt it. I made 2 different >versions of the rotor and subjected them to the same tests and got a whopping >nothing, almost. In a couple of cases, the outer housing did seem to be a >bit warmer, like maybe 10 degrees, but that was it. The attached pic shows If it doesn't cavitate, (make a loud noise?), you won't get any heat worth mentioning. BTW the inner cylinder should be ALUMINUM. There is a reason for this - Hydrinos can fuse with Al to produce alpha particles and magnesium. There is no similar reaction possible for Fe56 (though it is possible for Fe57 and Fe58, but these only form a tiny portion of Fe). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 30 03:08:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA27554; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 03:08:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 03:08:35 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 06:07:59 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown sub 30 Resent-Message-ID: <"q-A7E.0.Jk6.pQL_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17342 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: The MEG electronic diagram of the controler board Dear All, You will find the electronic diagram of the controler board for my MEG v1.0 currently under construction... see at : http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/megv1.htm Enjoy, Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 30 03:09:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA27601; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 03:08:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 03:08:47 -0800 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 06:08:36 -0500 Message-Id: <200010301108.GAA05003@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Final Report on Frenette Design Pt. 1 Resent-Message-ID: <"Jo1F.0.8l6.-QL_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17343 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robin writes: >If it doesn't cavitate, (make a loud noise?), you won't get any heat worth >mentioning. BTW the inner cylinder should be ALUMINUM. There is a reason for >this - Hydrinos can fuse with Al to produce alpha particles and magnesium. >There is no similar reaction possible for Fe56 (though it is possible for >Fe57 and Fe58, but these only form a tiny portion of Fe). > > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk Hi Robin, Even if it did produce cavitation with an Al rotor, and the proposed hydrino fusion -> alpha particle and magnesium reaction did occur, it would be difficult to tell with that set up. 1) alphas would be absorbed by the oil. 2)nearly all production Al is made up of some Mg and Cu, so it would take a mass spec reading of the surface to see if any "unusual" species had been formed. Brian doesn't even have a crude calorimetry set-up right now. I would assume that the reaction would be energetic enough that it would cause the exact same type of pitting that cavitation does, as well. In other words, it would be very difficult to determine that hydrinos are the cause of the reaction, when cavitation has been shown to do the exact same kinds of things, namely: transmute elements, create heat, and cause pitting. Since Brian evidently does have the necessary skills, tools and materials to make a Hydrosonic pump type of device, he could go ahead and do that, but so far, he has constructed something that is neither a Frenette heater, nor a cavitator. If he is really in need of a heater, he should be looking at getting that squared away first. One thing that I learned to do to heat my place in the winter that follows the line of thinking that it is better to do something that has a double duty is to do all my cooking at night. I know that this sounds crazy, but I bake biscuits, bread, make stews, roasts, etc., and it saves me a *freaking fortune* on food, plus it heats my abode for free. Trailers dwellers benefit especially from this because unlike normal houses, the heating unit of a trailer is outside, and the forced air ductwork is also run under the floor, which is of course, also... outside. Like I said before, I think the utility companies had a hand in their design. If you do your cooking at night however, the heat from the stove and oven is both produced and kept *inside*, and you get to eat great food. I mean if you think about it, why drive to McDonalds, and pay $5 or $6 *per meal* to sit in a goofy clown chair surrounded by screaming kids, etc., and eat a lukewarm, crummy chemical laced burger, when you could be eating piping hot, all natural, gourmet food in your very own, wonderful smelling kitchen for less than a dollar per day in food and energy costs. Chopping up veggies, and kneading bread dough keeps you warm as well. If you make double batches of everything, you can stick some of it in the freezer for summertime. The freezer removes the heat and dumps it into your kitchen as well, so when summer comes, you don't have to cook so much when it is hot. I also barbeque quite a lot in the summer, just so I am not heating up the house by cooking. Since Brian is a beer drinker, another thing he can do right now is switch to hot drinks. The Germans make a Jaeger Tee or Hunter Tea that is dead simple to make, and it will warm you up pronto. If you want to get more complicated, make Gluwein or one of the steamed milk with booze drinks. Why drink ice cold, American Chemical Society schlock beer in the wintertime, when you could be getting crocked like a true blueblooded continental aristrocat for the same money or less. Heating up the booze also heats up you and your house. If Brian is a smoker (I am), he could switch to smoking a pipe. There is nothing as comforting as a warm pipe in the wintertime. In short, I would take care of the basics first, in a creative and stylish, but time proven manner, and then fool around with the possible production of heat via unknown nuclear reactions at my leisure. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 30 03:29:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA01948; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 03:29:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 03:29:11 -0800 X-Originating-IP: 213.6.157.208 X-URL: http://www.mail2web.com/ Sender: "harti@harti.com" From: "harti@harti.com" Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 06:29:11 -0500 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Reply-To: harti@harti.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailer: JMail 3.7.0 by Dimac (www.dimac.net) Message-Id: <200010300629120.SM00078@m2w022.mail2web.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-Printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id DAA01917 Resent-Message-ID: <"-nhdI.0.FU.7kL_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17344 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: MEG questions Hi JL, good circuit diagramm, 1. did you use an airgap betwween L1 and L2 driver coil or did you wind it just around the core ? 2. Did you use the neo magtnets with a special tuned distance (airgap) between the core and the magnet surface ? Measure the B flux density in the L1 and L2 airgap for set it to the BH-knee at just +Bsat. 3. How did you pulse the L1 and L2 ? Did you polarize them , so that it will repell the flux inside the core or add the flux inside the core ? I guess it must repell the flux inside the core, so watch out your coil wiring ! 4. Waht kind of core material do you have ? nanoperm material ? Or is it `just a first test just with ferrite core material ? Good luck ! regards, Stefan. Original Message: ----------------- From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 06:07:59 EST Subject: [FG]: The MEG electronic diagram of the controler board Dear All, You will find the electronic diagram of the controler board for my MEG v1.0 currently under construction... see at : http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/megv1.htm Enjoy, Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin ------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web http://www.mail2web.com/ Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: http://www.yourhosting.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 30 10:51:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA29748; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:50:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:50:26 -0800 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:44:04 -0500 Message-Id: <200010301844.NAA15337@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Resent-Message-ID: <"SClRE2.0.eG7.oBS_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17345 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Double Duty Ahoy! I just remembered this, and thought I'd pass it on. It's another crazy idea, but it might appeal to some of you. In the five years that I worked the Polar Bear, we had 3 different chefs. The first one had worked the boat for some years, had been driven pretty crazy already, and only lasted for another 2 years after I came aboard before she left to go live with the Tree People. The second was a guy named Willie who had been the head chef over all the chefs for a fairly large and famous, very fine restaurant chain in Seattle. He stuck it out for one entire season, but just barely. The third guy was named Butch, and was a two-term Viet Nam vet. Butch was a pretty good match for the Bear for a lot of reasons, but this story is about Willie. The energy idea comes from him, too. Willie had worked hard to earn a masters degree in the culinary arts, and had worked for this really nice, expensive restaurant chain from the time it open the doors of its first restaurant. As head chef, he was to a large degree, responsible for their high reputation and success in a city that was extremely competitive in this area. Seattle had two chef's colleges, and the number of people coming out of them every year possessing real talent was quite high. Gaining a reputation for excellence was difficult, but Willie worked tirelessly for years to dazzle the worst critics and reviewers into giving the restaurant a high rating, which prompted the opening of an entire chain. The corporate board of directors made him the head chef over all the restaurants, and paid him a pretty respectable salary. All went very well for some time. At one of the corporate board meetings however, one of the board members thought that it would be a good idea to add something to the menu that was simpler and lower priced. The board decided that Willie should make hamburgers. Willie didn't want to do it. In fact, he threw a complete fit when he first got word of it in the kitchen, but they brought him into the board meeting, and basically ordered him to do it, so he tried to do it a couple of different ways. His idea was to make the hamburgers so terrible and expensive that nobody would order them, and they would take them off of his otherwise totally magnifico, gourmet menu within a few days. He came up with recipes with all kinds of weird ingredients, and people loved them instead. He doubled and tripled the price, and people still ordered them by the gross. This drove him batty. He said he walked home every night in complete bewilderment at how anyone could eat those things. One day he decided that if the public was going to be idiotic enough to order these obvious monstrosities no matter what, then he would have to come up with a different approach altogether to get them removed from the menu. He decided to drop the price of the hamburgers, and raise the costs of making them. This way the accountants would see that they were losing money on them, and they would convince the board of directors to drop the burgers off the menu. Willie dropped the price, and raised the costs using several different methods including for a time, making the only triangular shaped hamburgers in the world. They had to make special ordered buns at a really expensive bakery for them, which cost the restaurant a bleeding fortune. On St. Patrick's Day, he even had the bakery dye the buns green, which was not only just plain gross looking, but it made them even more costly. He reckoned that should do the trick. Finally, the corporate board of directors brought him back into the boardroom again, and told him that they were wise to his little game. They told him in no uncertain terms that he had to make regular, round, no-nonsense hamburgers. No more weird spices, no more weird shapes or colors - just plain hamburgers. "With REEEEL CHEEEESE!" Willie told me they said, and I knew exactly what he meant - those orangish yellow, processed chemical cheese slice things that only people in America are dumb enough to put into their mouths. Willie said that when he heard the words "With REEEEL CHEEEESE!", something popped in his brain. I understood it perfectly. Willie was truly an artiste, and simply was not going to have a bunch of tasteless corporate morons in suits tell him what food to cook, or how to cook it. He was a pretty passionate sort of fellow too, very animated, and dramatic at times, and this time he jumped onto the long, black corporate boardroom table, marched down the length of it with his nostrils flaring and fire in his eyes until he was glaring down at the CEO, who was cowering like a dog because he was now surely convinced that Willie had gone totally insane. Willie threw down his chef's hat onto the end of the table and kicked it away. He took off his apron, actually threw that onto the CEO's head, and yelled something to the effect that if they wanted the restaurant to be a hamburger joint, then they should have gotten Ronald McDonald for the head chef. He was not going to make another hamburger for as long as he lived! For some reason, Willie thought that this ploy, along with his talent, reputation, and years of faithful, and excellent service would actually work for him, but from under the apron, Willie heard the CEO scream those famous words, "You're FIRED!!!" Word quickly got around among the all restaurant owners in King County very quickly that Willie was a psycho renegade chef, so he couldn't get work anywhere after that incident, and he ended up as the chef on the Polar Bear headed for Alaska. He was still a bit stunned by the outcome of his outburst. Alaska is full of people like Willie, now that I think about it. Anyway, on our way up the coast, Willie also told me that as a child, he had been an avid breeder of tropical fish. His aunt introduced him to it as a hobby, and he had read everything that was available in print on the subject. Being a young black man, he was somewhat annoyed by the fact that there were no black angelfish. He thought it would be a cool idea to breed them, and he successfully did it, too. In fact, he got them registered in his name as the first breeder to accomplish the breeding of black angelfish, won an award from some fish breeders association, and everything. Since they were such a novelty among fish breeders, Willie actually made some fairly serious money supplying them to people until others could breed them as well. This got me to thinking about double duty energy devices, and I figured that a 10 gallon tropical fish tank would probably throw off a fairly good amount of heat in the wintertime. Tropical fish require quite warm tanks, if I recall, they recommend around 85 dF. Instead of buying a boring space heater, one could buy a tropical fish tank instead, and have a colorful and entertaining heat producer. If you put one in the bathroom of a trailer, for example, and kept the door shut, it might just be enough heat to make the entire bathroom itself bearable enough in the morning for showers, etc.. If you had another tank somewhere else in the trailer, you would have what basically amounts to all that is necessary for unique tropical fish breeding. Basically, all that it takes is a little time and two tanks. You take the fish with the characteristic that you would like to see enhanced, and put those fish together in a separate tank. Over time they breed, and that characteristic is passed on to the next generation, sometimes enhanced. Willie said that he started out by taking angelfish with the largest black spots on their bodies that he could find, and putting those fish together in one tank. The spots on subsequent generations covered ever larger portions of the body, until finally he got a batch that was totally black. Once he got a batch that was totally black, he just kept those separate from all the others, and that was it. I forget exactly how long he said that it took him, it was a few years, but once he got them, he was famous. He also made some real money at it - real money for a kid anyway. I think he said that he made between $20,000 and $30,000 just on that breed over the course of a few following years. He did other specialty breeding for people as a business/hobby while in high school as well, and it brought in enough for him to pay his own way through college. Between high school and college, he had tried to own and operate a full blown specialty fish store with a regularly scheduled, open retail outlet in a downtown mall, but the local market just wasn't large enough to support it, and he had to close it down. He still came out with enough to get him through school, though. Anyway, this is another example of the double duty idea. Fishtanks make great night lights, too. They add life to your surroundings. If we thought about energy usage in this fashion, we might find other ways to heat a place in the winter and derive more benefit from them than just the physical warmth. It ain't rocket science, but it still is fun. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 30 11:12:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA04648; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:11:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:11:51 -0800 Message-ID: <00f901bfca61$df275ac0$72736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:07:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F6_01BFCA27.31E6AE40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"UxB153.0.H81.sVS_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17346 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: intertial fields This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00F6_01BFCA27.31E6AE40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable has anyone seen http://www.cseti.org/bearden/part4/s50.htm ? is = something on creating anti-gravity by t. e. bearden ------=_NextPart_000_00F6_01BFCA27.31E6AE40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
has anyone seen http://www.cseti.org/= bearden/part4/s50.htm =20 ? is something on creating anti-gravity by t. e.=20 bearden
------=_NextPart_000_00F6_01BFCA27.31E6AE40-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 30 12:58:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA07060; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:58:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:58:07 -0800 Message-ID: <39FDDF6B.54AE4390@harti.com> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:51:55 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: JNaudin509@aol.com, Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" References: <90.b592596.272ec528@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"l1qEo1.0.8k1.V3U_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17347 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: MEG hints... Hi JL, good to see you back in the magnetics devices and not anymore antigravity :) Well, try to include 2 monoflop circuits before going to the coil mosfet drivers ! This could be good to just energize the coils less than the "ontime" of your 555 generator ! So you could try to just energize your input coils with around 1 to 5 usecs. So you can change your pulse width for each input coil. Maybe this will help boost the efficiency ? Good luck ! Regards, Stefan. JNaudin509@aol.com schrieb: > > Dans un courrier daté du 30/10/00 12:29:50 Paris, Madrid, harti@harti.com a > écrit : > > > Hi JL, > > good circuit diagramm, > > > > Hi Stefan, > > Thanks for your comment > > > 1. did you use an airgap betwween L1 and L2 driver > > coil or did you wind it just around the core ? > > > > No air gap, just wound around the core > > > 2. Did you use the neo magtnets with a special tuned distance > > (airgap) between the core and the magnet surface ? > > > > YES, there is an air gap at the top of the magnet > > > Measure the B flux density in the L1 and L2 airgap > > for set it to the BH-knee at just +Bsat. > > > > Tests and measurement will start soon... > > > 3. How did you pulse the L1 and L2 ? > > Did you polarize them , so that it will repell > > the flux inside the core or add the flux inside the core ? > > I guess it must repell the flux inside the core, > > so watch out your coil wiring ! > > Alternatively L1 and L2, the flux of L1 and L2 must block the magnet flux... > > > > > 4. Waht kind of core material do you have ? > > nanoperm material ? > > Or is it `just a first test just with ferrite core material ? > > I have used tape wounded type grain oriented silicon steel core ( Silicore > Isolec Z23 ) > > Stay tuned, > > Regards > > Jean-Louis -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 30 13:51:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA26241; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:50:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:50:39 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Final Report on Frenette Design Pt. 1 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:50:02 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <4iqrvs0c3sl1a5j4mh4cvalsh0dsbftk2s@4ax.com> References: <200010301108.GAA05003@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> In-Reply-To: <200010301108.GAA05003@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA26191 Resent-Message-ID: <"UKRWX3.0.sP6.kqU_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17348 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Michael T Huffman's message of Mon, 30 Oct 2000 06:08:36 -0500: >Robin writes: > >>If it doesn't cavitate, (make a loud noise?), you won't get any heat worth >>mentioning. BTW the inner cylinder should be ALUMINUM. There is a reason for >>this - Hydrinos can fuse with Al to produce alpha particles and magnesium. >>There is no similar reaction possible for Fe56 (though it is possible for >>Fe57 and Fe58, but these only form a tiny portion of Fe). >> >> >>Regards, >> >>Robin van Spaandonk > >Hi Robin, > >Even if it did produce cavitation with an Al rotor, and the proposed hydrino >fusion -> alpha particle and magnesium reaction did occur, it would be >difficult to tell with that set up. 1) alphas would be absorbed by the oil. >2)nearly all production Al is made up of some Mg and Cu, so it would take a >mass spec reading of the surface to see if any "unusual" species had been >formed. Brian doesn't even have a crude calorimetry set-up right now. I You seem to be missing the point here. If one can get the alpha production going, the energy output goes up a thousand fold. That's the difference between a device that just gets luke warm, and one that pumps out enough heat for your whole place. And yes, the alphas would be absorbed by the oil, that's the whole point. As they are absorbed, their kinetic energy is turned into heat in the oil. >would assume that the reaction would be energetic enough that it would cause >the exact same type of pitting that cavitation does, as well. In other >words, it would be very difficult to determine that hydrinos are the cause >of the reaction, when cavitation has been shown to do the exact same kinds >of things, namely: transmute elements, create heat, and cause pitting. Surprise, surprise! ;) > >Since Brian evidently does have the necessary skills, tools and materials to >make a Hydrosonic pump type of device, he could go ahead and do that, but so >far, he has constructed something that is neither a Frenette heater, nor a >cavitator. If he is really in need of a heater, he should be looking at >getting that squared away first. I agree wholeheartedly. My only intent here has been to point out that his deviations from the recipe could well be the reason why it isn't "working", rather than that the design is faulty per se. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 30 13:56:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA27846; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:55:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:55:56 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: how NOT to extract energy from gravity Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:55:18 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <005301c0413e$a8244160$a75cadd1@default> In-Reply-To: <005301c0413e$a8244160$a75cadd1@default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA27805 Resent-Message-ID: <"H67iQ3.0._o6.hvU_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17349 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Jim Shaffer, Jr.'s message of Sat, 28 Oct 2000 20:24:47 -0400: [snip] Wouldn't a pipe over the top be cheaper and easier than a tunnel? If the mouth of the pipe is kept well below the surface, it should work just fine. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 30 14:44:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA12470; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:43:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:43:58 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Final Report on Frenette Design Pt. 1 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:43:23 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <27urvsgugpk513d0f7q19nt811jmhc8ijj@4ax.com> References: <200010301108.GAA05003@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <4iqrvs0c3sl1a5j4mh4cvalsh0dsbftk2s@4ax.com> In-Reply-To: <4iqrvs0c3sl1a5j4mh4cvalsh0dsbftk2s@4ax.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA12452 Resent-Message-ID: <"OVBAN3.0.l23.kcV_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17350 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Robin van Spaandonk's message of Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:50:02 +1100: BTW, I forgot to mention before that you may need to run the device for at least several hours before heat production starts to take off. This is because the hydrinos may need to accumulate to the point where there are enough of them to catalyze their own shrinkage, so that they can undergo alpha producing reactions. [snip] >You seem to be missing the point here. If one can get the alpha production >going, the energy output goes up a thousand fold. That's the difference >between a device that just gets luke warm, and one that pumps out enough >heat for your whole place. >And yes, the alphas would be absorbed by the oil, that's the whole point. As >they are absorbed, their kinetic energy is turned into heat in the oil. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 30 14:57:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA17668; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:56:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:56:26 -0800 Message-ID: <39FDFB27.B50A25CF@harti.com> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:50:15 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cC4di2.0.uJ4.QoV_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17351 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Magnets to split water ! Hi All, I got the 2 pics from a friend: Felix Ehrenhaft´s experiment to split water by Permanent Magnets ! Here are 2 pics of it: http://www.overunity.com/shad Look at this two pics ! We now have an idea WHAT SHAD DID ! Look at page 2 ! Put on a T-tube to split pumped water (shad!) Swedish iron pieces and 2 PMs ! With a wire shorted !!!! Maybe this is also acting like a LC resonance circuit for a tuned frequency !! Probably one electrode is Titanium as Shad said, he is also using this material, the other stainless steel . And recirculate the water by pump (like Shad !) Perhaps this is what is in SHAD´s "golden egg" ! Here is the article in ASCII: > > Magic With Magnetism > > Popular Science - June, > 1944 > > If this experimenter is right, his discovery > will upset all our accepted ideas on this familiar force. > > By Alden P. Armagnac > > Can a magnet take water to pieces? No, say physics > textbooks. Yes, says Prof. Felix Ehrenhaft, former director > of the Physical > Institute at the University of Vienna, who now carries on > his research in New York. If he should turn out to be right > his findings > in the realm of magnetism promise practical applications as > far-reaching as the dynamos, motors, transformers > telephones, and > radio that have stemmed from Faraday's fundamental research > in electricity. > > For his "impossible" experiment, Dr. Ehrenhaft employs the > simplest of apparatus. Two shiny rods of pure Swedish iron, > sealed > in holes through opposite sides of a U-shaped tube, resemble > a setup familiar to high-school students for breaking up > water into > hydrogen and oxygen gases by passing electricity through it. > And that is exactly what would happen if Dr. Ehrenhaft > attached > electric wires from a battery to the rods. But he does no > such thing. > > Instead, he uses the iron rods as pole pieces, or 'north" > and "south" ends, of a magnet - either an electromagnet or a > permanent > magnet. Bubbles of gas rise through the twin columns of > acidulated water, to be collected and analyzed. As might be > expected, > nearly all of the gas is hydrogen, liberated by a > commonplace chemical interaction between the iron rods and > the dilute sulfuric > acid, one percent by volume, in the water. But the > phenomenal part of the experiment is that oxygen also turns > up, Dr. > Ehrenhaft recently told the American Physical Society. To be > specific, it is found in clearly measurable proportions > ranging from > two to 12 percent of the total volume of gases. When the > gases obtained with a permanent magnet are separated, the > larger > proportion of oxygen is found above the north pole of the > magnet. After rigorous precautions - including > short-circuiting the > magnet poles with wire, so that the poles will be at the > same electric potential - Dr. Ehrenhaft concludes that there > is only one > place the oxygen can possibly come from. And that is from > water decomposed with a magnet! Without a magnet, pure > hydrogen is evolved. > > There is an interesting sidelight to this experiment. A > strong permanent magnet of the Alnico type suffers a marked > loss of > strength - say, 10 percent in 24 hours - after being used to > decompose water, Dr. Ehrenhaft observes. In fact, makers of > the > magnets, which are supposed to last for years without > material change, have viewed what happens to them with > astonishment > and dismay. But no fault lies with their products. Energy > from an electric battery is used up in decomposing water, > and it would > be only reasonable to expect energy stored up in a permanent > magnet to be drained likewise. > > What gives the utmost significance to the reported feat of > breaking up water with a magnet is the fresh evidence it > offers for the > existence of "magnetic current," or a flow of magnetically > charged particles, which has been suspected by noted > pioneers and > which Dr. Ehrenhaft now maintains he has proved. > Confirmation of this amazing discovery would point to a > possible future rival > of electric current, perhaps capable of being harnessed in > undreamed-of ways. > > Needless to say, the scientific world will require a whole > lot of convincing, since Dr. Ehrenhaft's conclusions flatly > contradict > long-established beliefs. As every schoolboy is taught, a > magnet has a north pole and a south pole. Break it in two > with a > hammer, and each piece will have a north pole and south pole > of its own. No law forbids you to imagine a magnet with only > > one pole, and the idea comes in handy in certain electrical > and radio calculations. But as for actual fact, you cannot > have one > pole without the other, an experimenter named Peter > Peregrinus believed, he demonstrated it to his satisfaction, > using a > loadstone, in the year 1269, and prevailing opinion has > backed him up ever since. (As we know now, the loadstone > that he > floated on a platform in water simply turned until its north > pole faced the south magnetic pole of the earth, and vice > versa. It > showed no observable excess of north or of south magnetism Q > and hence the conclusion that the two were always equal.) > > But would the dictum of "no separate magnetic poles" still > hold true in a far more delicate test - say, if you > substituted > microscopic particles of iron or other magnetic metals, as > tiny as particles of smoke, for the massive chunk of rock > that > Peregrinus used ? Dr. Ehrenhaft has tried it. In an air gap > between the north and south poles of a magnet, he sets up > what he > calls a homogenous magnetic field, that is, with the lines > of magnetic force absolutely parallel. In this field, he > finds, the metal > particles move toward the north or south pole, reversing > their direction according to the direction of the magnetic > field. On the > particles, he concludes, there must be an excess of north or > south magnetic charge. Expanding the terminology of Faraday, > he > calls the particles magnetic ions. They are the single > magnetic poles shown at the lower right of the colored > drawing. Instead of > bearing plus or minus electric charges, as familiar ions do, > they carry north or south magnetic charges. > > Now, just as traveling electric ions form an electric > current, why shouldn't traveling magnetic ions form a > magnetic current? See > for yourself another of Dr. Ehrenhaft's startling > experiments, and draw your own conclusions. > > This time the heart of the apparatus will be a small glass > cell, fitted as before with pole pieces of pure iron that > dip into water > containing one percent of sulphuric acid. An electromagnet, > turned on or off at will energizes the poles. From a > projector, a > powerful beam of light converges upon the narrow gap between > the pole pieces, and a low-power microscope, mounted > horizontally, reveals what happens there. Adding a camera > provides a permanent record. > > You begin with the Magnet turned off. Looking into the > eyepiece of the microscope, you see streams of bubbles > rising from > both pole pieces. They are of hydrogen gas, liberated by the > same chemical action as in the first experiment. > > Throw the switch that turns on the magnet, and the scene > abruptly changes. Stopped dead in their tracks, some of the > bubbles > cling to the pole pieces. Others leave one pole and travel > to the other. Dr. Ehrenhaft calls special attention to > bubbles moving > downward against their own buoyancy, impelled by some unseen > force stronger than gravity. > > Meanwhile a spectacular phenomenon has been developing - a > miniature merry-go-round of gas bubbles between the faces of > > the poles and parallel to them. Incapable of being shown > adequately in a time exposure, the effect nevertheless > appears plainly > as a white blur, when the upper magnetic pole is given a > conical shape for photographic purposes. Visual observation, > shows > striking details. If copper particles, say, have been added > to the acidulated water, they will rotate in the same plane > as the > hydrogen bubbles, but in the opposite direction. For both, > the speed of the whirligig depends upon the strength of the > magnetic > field. Reverse the polarity of the magnet, and each set of > particles spins in the opposite direction. > > Here are no wild-eyed theories, but perfectly demonstrable > facts. Any skeptical physicist has a standing invitation to > see them > with his own eyes at Dr. Ehrenhaft's laboratory, placed at > his disposal in the New York City quarters of the famous > Carl Zeiss > optical firm. How to account for the phenomena remains a > challenge to science, unless Dr. Ehrenhaft's conclusions are > to be > accepted. See how neatly they would draw an analogy between > well-known electric effects and new-found magnetic effects: > > Bubbles or particles that travel between pole pieces of a > magnet behave just as if they were magnetic ions, or > clusters of them > Q repelled by like magnetic poles, and attracted by > oppositely magnetized poles. This corresponds exactly with > the way that > "electric" or ordinary ions interact with positive and > negative electrodes. And as for the ring-around-a-rosy > behavior of the > hydrogen bubbles and copper particles, Dr. Ehrenhaft > concludes that these are electrically charged particles Q > ordinary ions Q > rotating about a magnetic current. This would be an exact > counterpart of the classical conception that magnetism > rotates about > a current-carrying electric conductor. > > Now the staggering implications of Dr. Ehrenhaft's > observations begin to unfold. Existence of such a thing as > magnetic current, > once established, would pave the way for industries as > gigantic as those that the discovery of electricity led to > in its time. A > "gold rush" for practical applications might be expected. > Patents for them would command fabulous sums, since > inventions > employing magnetic current would be basic. > > What form they may take, no man can foresee, and Dr. > Ehrenhaft cautiously declines to hazard a guess. Yet a > visitor to his > laboratory cannot resist the temptation to let his > imagination run free. New kinds of motors and generators? > Better ways to > transmit power? Transformers that will work on direct > current instead of alternating current? Atom smashers? > Radical methods > of seeing things in the dark, and through microscopes and > telescopes? Ways to tap power from the magnetism of the > earth > itself? And, in your home, substitution of magnetic current > - who ever got a shock from it? - for electric current? Pure > dreams, > all of them, today - but some of them, perhaps, realities of > 2044. > > Before magnetic currents could be put in harness, of course, > a myriad of questions about their behavior remain to be > studied > and answered. So far, no one knows whether they can be led > through wires, like electric currents, as well as through > conducting liquids. If so, the wires might be of entirely > different materials than the best conductors for > electricity. Likewise, the > most effective insulators for magnetic current might be > substances totally unlike those used for electrical > insulators. The whole > subject offers as vast a field for pioneering research as > electricity did a century ago. And now, as then, an amateur > experimenter > puttering in his basement stands as good a chance of making > an epochal discovery as does a distinguished scientists in a > great > laboratory. > -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 30 19:42:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA05254; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:42:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:42:00 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [63.57.55.143] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Double Duty Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:41:26 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Oct 2000 03:41:26.0881 (UTC) FILETIME=[729A6510:01C042EC] Resent-Message-ID: <"FxaFn3.0.wH1.8-Z_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17352 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sorry knuke... fish tanks are out... unless you keep them in a nice even temperature most fish die... only gold fish and guppies survive trailer life... There's no money in them... Been there tried that... :( But I like the way you think! Timothy... >From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: [FG]: Double Duty >Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:44:04 -0500 > >Ahoy! > >I just remembered this, and thought I'd pass it on. It's another crazy >idea, but it might appeal to some of you. In the five years that I worked >the Polar Bear, we had 3 different chefs. The first one had worked the >boat >for some years, had been driven pretty crazy already, and only lasted for >another 2 years after I came aboard before she left to go live with the >Tree >People. The second was a guy named Willie who had been the head chef over >all the chefs for a fairly large and famous, very fine restaurant chain in >Seattle. He stuck it out for one entire season, but just barely. The >third >guy was named Butch, and was a two-term Viet Nam vet. Butch was a pretty >good match for the Bear for a lot of reasons, but this story is about >Willie. The energy idea comes from him, too. > >Willie had worked hard to earn a masters degree in the culinary arts, and >had worked for this really nice, expensive restaurant chain from the time >it >open the doors of its first restaurant. As head chef, he was to a large >degree, responsible for their high reputation and success in a city that >was >extremely competitive in this area. Seattle had two chef's colleges, and >the number of people coming out of them every year possessing real talent >was quite high. Gaining a reputation for excellence was difficult, but >Willie worked tirelessly for years to dazzle the worst critics and >reviewers >into giving the restaurant a high rating, which prompted the opening of an >entire chain. The corporate board of directors made him the head chef over >all the restaurants, and paid him a pretty respectable salary. All went >very well for some time. > >At one of the corporate board meetings however, one of the board members >thought that it would be a good idea to add something to the menu that was >simpler and lower priced. The board decided that Willie should make >hamburgers. Willie didn't want to do it. In fact, he threw a complete fit >when he first got word of it in the kitchen, but they brought him into the >board meeting, and basically ordered him to do it, so he tried to do it a >couple of different ways. His idea was to make the hamburgers so terrible >and expensive that nobody would order them, and they would take them off of >his otherwise totally magnifico, gourmet menu within a few days. He came >up >with recipes with all kinds of weird ingredients, and people loved them >instead. He doubled and tripled the price, and people still ordered them >by >the gross. This drove him batty. He said he walked home every night in >complete bewilderment at how anyone could eat those things. > >One day he decided that if the public was going to be idiotic enough to >order these obvious monstrosities no matter what, then he would have to >come >up with a different approach altogether to get them removed from the menu. >He decided to drop the price of the hamburgers, and raise the costs of >making them. This way the accountants would see that they were losing >money >on them, and they would convince the board of directors to drop the burgers >off the menu. Willie dropped the price, and raised the costs using several >different methods including for a time, making the only triangular shaped >hamburgers in the world. They had to make special ordered buns at a really >expensive bakery for them, which cost the restaurant a bleeding fortune. >On >St. Patrick's Day, he even had the bakery dye the buns green, which was not >only just plain gross looking, but it made them even more costly. He >reckoned that should do the trick. > >Finally, the corporate board of directors brought him back into the >boardroom again, and told him that they were wise to his little game. They >told him in no uncertain terms that he had to make regular, round, >no-nonsense hamburgers. No more weird spices, no more weird shapes or >colors - just plain hamburgers. "With REEEEL CHEEEESE!" Willie told me >they >said, and I knew exactly what he meant - those orangish yellow, processed >chemical cheese slice things that only people in America are dumb enough to >put into their mouths. Willie said that when he heard the words "With >REEEEL CHEEEESE!", something popped in his brain. I understood it >perfectly. > >Willie was truly an artiste, and simply was not going to have a bunch of >tasteless corporate morons in suits tell him what food to cook, or how to >cook it. He was a pretty passionate sort of fellow too, very animated, and >dramatic at times, and this time he jumped onto the long, black corporate >boardroom table, marched down the length of it with his nostrils flaring >and >fire in his eyes until he was glaring down at the CEO, who was cowering >like >a dog because he was now surely convinced that Willie had gone totally >insane. Willie threw down his chef's hat onto the end of the table and >kicked it away. He took off his apron, actually threw that onto the CEO's >head, and yelled something to the effect that if they wanted the restaurant >to be a hamburger joint, then they should have gotten Ronald McDonald for >the head chef. He was not going to make another hamburger for as long as >he >lived! > >For some reason, Willie thought that this ploy, along with his talent, >reputation, and years of faithful, and excellent service would actually >work >for him, but from under the apron, Willie heard the CEO scream those famous >words, "You're FIRED!!!" Word quickly got around among the all restaurant >owners in King County very quickly that Willie was a psycho renegade chef, >so he couldn't get work anywhere after that incident, and he ended up as >the >chef on the Polar Bear headed for Alaska. He was still a bit stunned by >the >outcome of his outburst. Alaska is full of people like Willie, now that I >think about it. > >Anyway, on our way up the coast, Willie also told me that as a child, he >had >been an avid breeder of tropical fish. His aunt introduced him to it as a >hobby, and he had read everything that was available in print on the >subject. Being a young black man, he was somewhat annoyed by the fact that >there were no black angelfish. He thought it would be a cool idea to breed >them, and he successfully did it, too. In fact, he got them registered in >his name as the first breeder to accomplish the breeding of black >angelfish, >won an award from some fish breeders association, and everything. Since >they were such a novelty among fish breeders, Willie actually made some >fairly serious money supplying them to people until others could breed them >as well. > >This got me to thinking about double duty energy devices, and I figured >that >a 10 gallon tropical fish tank would probably throw off a fairly good >amount >of heat in the wintertime. Tropical fish require quite warm tanks, if I >recall, they recommend around 85 dF. Instead of buying a boring space >heater, one could buy a tropical fish tank instead, and have a colorful and >entertaining heat producer. If you put one in the bathroom of a trailer, >for example, and kept the door shut, it might just be enough heat to make >the entire bathroom itself bearable enough in the morning for showers, >etc.. > >If you had another tank somewhere else in the trailer, you would have what >basically amounts to all that is necessary for unique tropical fish >breeding. Basically, all that it takes is a little time and two tanks. >You >take the fish with the characteristic that you would like to see enhanced, >and put those fish together in a separate tank. Over time they breed, and >that characteristic is passed on to the next generation, sometimes >enhanced. >Willie said that he started out by taking angelfish with the largest black >spots on their bodies that he could find, and putting those fish together >in one tank. The spots on subsequent generations covered ever larger >portions of the body, until finally he got a batch that was totally black. >Once he got a batch that was totally black, he just kept those separate >from >all the others, and that was it. I forget exactly how long he said that it >took him, it was a few years, but once he got them, he was famous. > >He also made some real money at it - real money for a kid anyway. I think >he said that he made between $20,000 and $30,000 just on that breed over >the >course of a few following years. He did other specialty breeding for >people >as a business/hobby while in high school as well, and it brought in enough >for him to pay his own way through college. Between high school and >college, he had tried to own and operate a full blown specialty fish store >with a regularly scheduled, open retail outlet in a downtown mall, but the >local market just wasn't large enough to support it, and he had to close it >down. He still came out with enough to get him through school, though. > >Anyway, this is another example of the double duty idea. Fishtanks make >great night lights, too. They add life to your surroundings. If we >thought >about energy usage in this fashion, we might find other ways to heat a >place >in the winter and derive more benefit from them than just the physical >warmth. It ain't rocket science, but it still is fun. > >Knuke >Michael T. Huffman >Huffman Technology Company >1121 Dustin Drive >The Villages, Florida 32159 >(352)259-1276 >knuke@LCIA.COM >http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 30 19:59:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA11247; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:59:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:59:09 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [63.57.55.143] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: intertial fields Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:58:23 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Oct 2000 03:58:23.0485 (UTC) FILETIME=[D08BDAD0:01C042EE] Resent-Message-ID: <"9SWWQ1.0.Zl2.5Ea_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17353 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Personally I question the source... Kind of like reading from the tabloid "star"... But if the could be done on a larger scale than what I've seen it looks like a promising ???weapon??? ... but nothing close to free energy... Or am I way off??? Hmmmm... Timothy... >From: "edward webber" >has anyone seen http://www.cseti.org/bearden/part4/s50.htm ? is something >on creating anti-gravity by t. e. bearden _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 30 20:00:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA17329; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:59:44 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:59:44 -0800 (PST) X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001030215038.00cf15d0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:59:37 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Pinwheel windmil In-Reply-To: <3a0004f5.966466004@mail.midiowa.net> References: <4.2.0.58.20001029193757.00c363a0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001029193757.00c363a0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"ZRx8U.0.YE4.iEa_v"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17354 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 05:24 AM 10/30/00 +0000, you wrote: >Hmm. How did it fly apart? Would better reinforcement at the axis >help? One of the center welds broke. Of course the thunderstorm indraft contributed to that. it was a sustained 60mph with gusts approaching 80 I am sure better design and better construction would help. (I sort of threw it together) > >I am thinking I need several alternators and maybe find a sweet spot for > >the RPM Then regulate the RPM by adjusting the load > >Sounds good. What kind of drive belts and pulleys do you use? Can >they take the strain enough to slow the pinwheel down? The connecting equipment was all automotive v-belt and pulley. I am pretty sure the belt did not slip. There simply was not enough load for that much wind. Automotive alternators have a designed load limit. They are set up so that they can never produce more then X amount of current. Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 30 20:06:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA14458; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:06:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:06:09 -0800 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: <98.c023e28.272f9efe@aol.com> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:05:18 EST Subject: Re: [FG]: Final Report on Frenette Design Pt. 1 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"B0Qp2.0.mX3.mKa_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17357 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hey guys, you're slightly mistaken there. According to the patent the inner rotor should be stainless steel (paragraph 1, column 2) and the OUTER DRUM should be made of aluminum. However, according to the other materials from Rex Research, that's not supposed to matter as one person claimed to get it working using two tin cans. Also the heat is supposedly generated almost immediately after the device gets up to speed. If I get time, I will try using the materials mentioned in the patent. I'm currently working approx. 50 + hrs a week, in school 20 hrs a week with a 40 min commute ONE WAY. My time is limited and I built the prototypes on the fly with hopes that they would at least indicate that the theory behind the device was sound. The evidence indicates that variations from the design prevent it from working, if it does indeed work at all. Remember, a patent is no guarantee that the item DOES work, only that there is a reasonable chance for it to work. Brian Drake (Bmd2323@aol.com) ****** Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. ****** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 30 20:06:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA14412; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:06:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:06:05 -0800 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:05:16 EST Subject: Re: [FG]: Final Report on Frenette Design Pt. 3 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_a6.b58dc14.272f9efc_boundary" X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"3RxYw3.0.2X3.hKa_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17356 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --part1_a6.b58dc14.272f9efc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In this pic you can see that I've drilled 4 holes in the disks in the hopes that might increase the cavitation. If it did, it certainly wasn't enough to cause an increase in the heat generated by the thing (i.e., none). I put it through the same tests as the others with the exact same results. 'Tis a pity, I first heard about the Frenette design some 11-12 years ago and have always wanted to build one. So now, after years of waiting and dreaming, I build the silly thing and it doesn't work. Such is life. In any case, if anyone wants more information about the model I constructed, feel free to e-mail me. I realize that this may seem like more info than one needs to know about a failure, but if people researching free energy type devices DON'T make complete reports about the failures as well as supposed successes, then when someone actually DOES discover something that appear to produce either more energy than it consumes or operates at a level of efficiency greater than thought possible, they'll never be taken seriously. I also didn't want people claiming that I deliberately botched the experiment up. I know I didn't perform a rigorous scientific experiment (i.e., no control, no thermometers, etc.), but I believe that had the design actually appeared to work, what I'd done would have eliminated the possibility that it was simply a normal process that I was observing. 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Oct 2000 23:05:07 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_62.88a4793.272f9ef3_boundary" X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"gOScB1.0.Ka4.fKa_v"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17355 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Final Report on Frenette Design Pt. 2 --part1_62.88a4793.272f9ef3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay, the Frenette's patent mentioned a prior art design that feature a series of disks, so for the next rotor I made I included a series of disks. Its pictured here with the original rotor so that you can see they are both of the same size and there's a dime between the two so you can get an idea of the scale. I ran this rotor through the same tests as the first one and produced the same results. After proving that it didn't work I made one final set of modifications to the design to see if they might help increase the level of cavitation in the system and improve the level of heat (if any) given off. See next posting for details. Brian Drake (Bmd2323@aol.com) ****** Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. ****** --part1_62.88a4793.272f9ef3_boundary Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="rotor1.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="rotor1.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAlgCWAAD//gAeTEVBRCBUZWNobm9sb2dpZXMgSW5jLiBWMS4wMf/b AEMAAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAgEBAQEBAgEBAQICAgICAgICAgMDBAMDAwMDAgIDBAMDBAQE BAQCAwUFBAQFBAQEBP/bAEMBAQEBAQEBAgEBAgQDAgMEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQE BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBP/AABEIAIkArAMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAfAAAB BAMBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAKBAUGCQcICwMCAQD/xABEEAACAgEDAgYBAQQGBwUJAAACAwEEBQYR EgcTAAgJFCEiIzEKFTIzFjRBdHWzGCQ1NkKxtBdRYbK1NzlDdnd4kbbD/8QAGwEAAgMBAQEA AAAAAAAAAAAABAUCAwYBAAf/xAA1EQABAwMCAwcDBAIBBQAAAAABAgMRAAQhEjEFQVEGEyJh cYHwocHRMpGx8RThQhUjJFJy/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwC81GHGrSvU2o3GhYUVyMjU7lrCOFDm AZqaRRXJSymZnYJWKIlZyABsqzOM9/h7QZzE6kjGUaJWL+UqUGe7pBWlNf8ADagoKsQBbWW8 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8uDIkSCCLh5L1Bg18xyeJv3nyfMX4r3NuvIlEF8kuiURMlJlxIjmIIftMcZ8Six/XqX92x// AFWQ8Q9v9Sw3+FB/mN8JwQtGpQmj3n9DQJSDt5dK/9k= --part1_62.88a4793.272f9ef3_boundary-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 30 20:29:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA23653; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:29:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:29:20 -0800 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001030221616.00c06340@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:29:19 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Double Duty In-Reply-To: <200010301844.NAA15337@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"cUVR02.0.Pn5.Vga_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17358 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Michael: Nice story... and I was looking at a fish and "Fin and Feather" called "Willies Black Angle" Figured it was a bit exotic for me as I tend to work with indigenous fish. (Texas Chiclid and so fourth)... about the idea... The average tank heater is about 60W you aren't going to heat a trailer (3 to 5 Kilowatts) with that. and although 50 or so fish tanks would be real decorative.... the cash outflow will do you in. Lets face it breading tropical fish is pretty trickery business At 01:44 PM 10/30/00 -0500, you wrote: >Ahoy! > > >This got me to thinking about double duty energy devices, and I figured that >a 10 gallon tropical fish tank would probably throw off a fairly good amount >of heat in the wintertime. Tropical fish require quite warm tanks, if I >recall, they recommend around 85 dF. Instead of buying a boring space >heater, one could buy a tropical fish tank instead, and have a colorful and >entertaining heat producer. If you put one in the bathroom of a trailer, >for example, and kept the door shut, it might just be enough heat to make >the entire bathroom itself bearable enough in the morning for showers, etc.. Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 30 21:10:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA06201; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:09:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:09:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:09:15 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <7o8vl8VUUyB@.telekom.t-online.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA06150 Resent-Message-ID: <"I6F7A1.0.kW1.3Gb_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17359 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: PCB for Shannon's "gradiometer" Stefan (below) is considering doing a run of PCBs for Bob Shannon's SCALAR ELECTROSTATIC GRADIOMETER http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/grado.html If you're interested in getting a PCB, please contact him. On 19 Oct 2000 Stefan.Kaechele@t-online.de wrote: > Are there many requests for that gradiometer/layout/built-up thing over > some month ? > > We plan to create an available pcb for this gradiometer which at least has > to be built up by interestents. > If there are interestents in such a bare pcb you can forward them to me. > > > Mit freundlichen Grüssen, > Stefan Kaechele, Todtmooserstr. 45, 79725 Laufenburg, 07763/929896 > http://www.palmzip.de > ## CrossPoint v3.11 R ## > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 30 21:30:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA10369; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:29:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:29:51 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [63.57.55.143] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Pinwheel windmill Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:29:15 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Oct 2000 05:29:16.0228 (UTC) FILETIME=[82A26840:01C042FB] Resent-Message-ID: <"kt3-Q1.0.wX2.FZb_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17360 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Charlie, Great information!!! This seems to be the problem with all windmills... over speeding... I had a friend (Jim Davis, now deceased) that had several patents for this... mostly just tails on a regular wind mill that would shift the heading out of the wind if the wind was too high... simple stuff... his best Idea, he said he couldn't patent... it was using a tork converter to absorb the extra energy from over speeding... He just mounted a torque converter on the shaft between the blades and the shaft of his vertical axel wind mill... the only modification was to put an exterior coil "radiator" on the outside so that the fluid could flow inside to outside and back in one continuous loop... this was to cool the fluid... Clamed that they burned up if he didn't... he ran the generator at a constant speed... using some kind of brake on the shaft... letting the tork converter take up the all the extra speed... I only saw pictures of his prototype and the attempted patient(s)... and it was only on the tork converter... and it's modifications... Just now, I'm thinking that there may be a way to use this heat??? Wow... this kinda brings two separate conversation together...LOL... How much does a tork converter heat up in a car anyway??? it absorbs energy so it must produce heat??? Right??? Does anyone have a tork converter to play with??? Timothy... >From: Charles Ford >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: [FG]: Pinwheel windmil >Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:59:37 -0600 > >At 05:24 AM 10/30/00 +0000, you wrote: > >>Hmm. How did it fly apart? Would better reinforcement at the axis >>help? > >One of the center welds broke. Of course the thunderstorm indraft >contributed to that. it was a sustained 60mph with gusts approaching >80 I am sure better design and better construction would help. (I sort >of threw it together) > > >> >I am thinking I need several alternators and maybe find a sweet spot for >> >the RPM Then regulate the RPM by adjusting the load >> >>Sounds good. What kind of drive belts and pulleys do you use? Can >>they take the strain enough to slow the pinwheel down? > >The connecting equipment was all automotive v-belt and pulley. I am pretty >sure the belt did not slip. There simply was not enough load for that much >wind. Automotive alternators have a designed load limit. They are set up >so that they can never produce more then X amount of current. > >Charlie Ford >cjford1@yahoo.com >cjford1@swbell.net > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 30 21:39:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA12999; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:39:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:39:25 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [63.57.55.143] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Final Report on Frenette Design Pt. 3 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:38:46 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Oct 2000 05:38:46.0477 (UTC) FILETIME=[D6877FD0:01C042FC] Resent-Message-ID: <"Sr5NZ3.0._A3.Cib_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17361 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Brian, this is true about failures... Thank you!!! I just had an idea... it came to me wile I was righting my last post... can you get a hold of a car tork converter??? if you can maybe you could try your same test with it??? mounting one side solid and turning the other??? As I stated in my last post this is known to produce heat... Or at least claimed... and could be simple to try if the parts are available to you??? Timothy... >From: Bmd2323@aol.com >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: [FG]: Final Report on Frenette Design Pt. 3 >Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:05:16 EST > >In this pic you can see that I've drilled 4 holes in the disks in the hopes >that might increase the cavitation. If it did, it certainly wasn't enough >to >cause an increase in the heat generated by the thing (i.e., none). I put >it >through the same tests as the others with the exact same results. 'Tis a >pity, I first heard about the Frenette design some 11-12 years ago and have >always wanted to build one. So now, after years of waiting and dreaming, I >build the silly thing and it doesn't work. Such is life. In any case, if >anyone wants more information about the model I constructed, feel free to >e-mail me. I realize that this may seem like more info than one needs to >know about a failure, but if people researching free energy type devices >DON'T make complete reports about the failures as well as supposed >successes, >then when someone actually DOES discover something that appear to produce >either more energy than it consumes or operates at a level of efficiency >greater than thought possible, they'll never be taken seriously. I also >didn't want people claiming that I deliberately botched the experiment up. >I >know I didn't perform a rigorous scientific experiment (i.e., no control, >no >thermometers, etc.), but I believe that had the design actually appeared to >work, what I'd done would have eliminated the possibility that it was >simply >a normal process that I was observing. >Brian Drake >(Bmd2323@aol.com) > > >****** Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and >taste >good with ketchup. ****** ><< rotor2.jpg >> _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 30 22:32:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA27044; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:31:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:31:59 -0800 Message-ID: <39FE6702.EFF62A97@icx.net> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 01:30:26 -0500 From: Stephen Brummitt Organization: D E V X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Final Report on Frenette Design Pt. 1 References: <200010301108.GAA05003@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <4iqrvs0c3sl1a5j4mh4cvalsh0dsbftk2s@4ax.com> <27urvsgugpk513d0f7q19nt811jmhc8ijj@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5GUc82.0.Pc6.UTc_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17362 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This has all the earmarks of a snipe hunt to me! Stephen Brummitt ____________________________________________________________ Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > In reply to Robin van Spaandonk's message of Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:50:02 > +1100: > BTW, I forgot to mention before that you may need to run the device for at > least several hours before heat production starts to take off. This is > because the hydrinos may need to accumulate to the point where there are > enough of them to catalyze their own shrinkage, so that they can undergo > alpha producing reactions. > > [snip] > >You seem to be missing the point here. If one can get the alpha production > >going, the energy output goes up a thousand fold. That's the difference > >between a device that just gets luke warm, and one that pumps out enough > >heat for your whole place. > >And yes, the alphas would be absorbed by the oil, that's the whole point. As > >they are absorbed, their kinetic energy is turned into heat in the oil. > [snip] > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do > to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 31 00:17:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA13800; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:17:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:17:31 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: LED circuit paradox Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:16:53 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <0uvsvs0dualert805qt3dsmrap7aek4nmh@4ax.com> References: <005501c0411a$c165c000$553dee3f@default> <002101c04131$cc273b60$1f3dee3f@default> <4.2.0.58.20001028232012.00bda830@pop.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001028232012.00bda830@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA13768 Resent-Message-ID: <"2VXCV2.0.TN3.N0e_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17363 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Charles Ford's message of Sat, 28 Oct 2000 23:21:54 -0500: >At 06:52 PM 10/28/00 -0400, you wrote: > >> > explain what you are doing and how it could open up a whole new market for >> > them, they might be inclined to lend you the necessary LEDs. >> > > >Lend heck... Most of them will give them to you... We call that an >engineering sample. [snip] I figured they might, but it always sounds better to ask for a loan. Then a gift comes as a nice surprise. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 31 00:52:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA19189; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:52:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:52:12 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Final Report on Frenette Design Pt. 3 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:51:36 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA19129 Resent-Message-ID: <"X32uC1.0.fh4.yWe_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17364 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Bmd2323@aol.com's message of Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:05:16 EST: >In this pic you can see that I've drilled 4 holes in the disks in the hopes >that might increase the cavitation. If it did, it certainly wasn't enough to >cause an increase in the heat generated by the thing (i.e., none). I put it >through the same tests as the others with the exact same results. 'Tis a >pity, I first heard about the Frenette design some 11-12 years ago and have >always wanted to build one. So now, after years of waiting and dreaming, I >build the silly thing and it doesn't work. Such is life. In any case, if [snip] I note that in Frenette's patent the cylinders are about 10-12 inches in diameter, while I believe yours were only about 2. IOW in order to obtain the same degree of friction in the oil, you would need the same relative "wall speed". This means that you would need to rotate yours at about 5 times his minimum speed, to see the same result, i.e. about 9000 rpm minimum. Did you achieve that? If not a belt and pulley drive shouldn't be too difficult. Second, did you make any effort to ensure that a Mills catalyst was present? (e.g. potassium, rubidium, or molybdenum ions)? Without the catalyst, your hydrino production would probably be smaller by several orders of magnitude. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 31 01:04:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA22372; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 01:01:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 01:01:47 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Final Report on Frenette Design Pt. 1 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:01:11 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <772tvsok9vr83limpfeklqkj3f6mhupjvq@4ax.com> References: <200010301108.GAA05003@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <4iqrvs0c3sl1a5j4mh4cvalsh0dsbftk2s@4ax.com> <27urvsgugpk513d0f7q19nt811jmhc8ijj@4ax.com> <39FE6702.EFF62A97@icx.net> In-Reply-To: <39FE6702.EFF62A97@icx.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id BAA22353 Resent-Message-ID: <"AXaZs.0.TT5.xfe_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17365 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Stephen Brummitt's message of Tue, 31 Oct 2000 01:30:26 -0500: >This has all the earmarks of a snipe hunt to me! > >Stephen Brummitt [snip] Hey, if just throwing one together made it work, we would all have one already. The very fact that we don't is an indication that anomalous results can only be achieved under particular sets of circumstances. Leave out just one critical item, and it doesn't work. BTW I act here as though I know what I'm talking about, but truth be told, it's just an educated guess. It seems reasonable, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's right. However if someone's going to give it a try, then they might as well meet the best guess requirements. That would seem to provide the best chance of success. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 31 01:09:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA24318; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 01:09:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 01:09:12 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Final Report on Frenette Design Pt. 1 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:08:38 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <0j2tvsodpqlltkj6s4n54i66bqbnqh93lq@4ax.com> References: <98.c023e28.272f9efe@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <98.c023e28.272f9efe@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id BAA24301 Resent-Message-ID: <"qWX7e1.0.tx5.ume_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17366 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Bmd2323@aol.com's message of Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:05:18 EST: >Hey guys, you're slightly mistaken there. According to the patent the inner >rotor should be stainless steel (paragraph 1, column 2) and the OUTER DRUM >should be made of aluminum. That's OK, it doesn't matter which drum, in fact it would probably be better if both were aluminium, as long as at least one of them is. The point is that the metal is part of the "fuel", so without it, "it won't burn". BTW "tin cans" are lined with either zinc or tin, and both can react to produce alphas. (As of course can aluminium cans). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 31 09:54:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA08822; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:52:16 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:52:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <39FF064F.D03AD375@icx.net> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:50:07 -0500 From: Stephen Brummitt Organization: D E V X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Final Report on Frenette Design Pt. 1 References: <200010301108.GAA05003@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <4iqrvs0c3sl1a5j4mh4cvalsh0dsbftk2s@4ax.com> <27urvsgugpk513d0f7q19nt811jmhc8ijj@4ax.com> <39FE6702.EFF62A97@icx.net> <772tvsok9vr83limpfeklqkj3f6mhupjvq@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tycZs2.0.b92.7Rm_v"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17367 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > In reply to Stephen Brummitt's message of Tue, 31 Oct 2000 01:30:26 > -0500: > > >This has all the earmarks of a snipe hunt to me! > > > >Stephen Brummitt > [snip] > Hey, if just throwing one together made it work, we would all have > one already. The very fact that we don't is an indication that > anomalous results can only be achieved under particular sets of > circumstances. Leave out just one critical item, and it doesn't work. > Hey! I don't fault you AT ALL for trying! I take a chance on the improbable myself, every now and then. It's just that, when I see statements like this: > BTW, I forgot to mention before that you may > need to run the device for at least several > hours before heat production starts to take off. > This is because the hydrinos may need to accumulate > to the point where there are enough of them to > catalyze their own shrinkage, so that they can > undergo alpha producing reactions. are apparently swallowed whole, and taken as 'fact', I really have to grin. You can "catalyze the shrinkage" of your hydrinos, till the cows come home, (or, the snipes for that matter), and you will still be waiting on "alpha producing reactions"!( Whatever the heck that means!) Even if you DO get this thing to work, how is anybody going to explain why, (and, have it taken seriously)? Stephen Brummitt ____________________________________________________________ > BTW I act here as though I know what I'm talking about, but truth be told, > it's just an educated guess. It seems reasonable, but that doesn't > necessarily mean it's right. However if someone's going to give it a try, > then they might as well meet the best guess requirements. That would seem to > provide the best chance of success. > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do > to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 31 11:06:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA09719; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:04:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:04:29 -0800 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001031125917.0094ead0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:04:10 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: PCB for Shannon's "gradiometer" In-Reply-To: References: <7o8vl8VUUyB@.telekom.t-online.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id LAA09684 Resent-Message-ID: <"SPrnw.0.dN2.vUn_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17368 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Not actually interested... however... Before committing this design to copper be aware that the RF sense is not equipped with a zero adjust. This will greatly reduce the sensitivity of the detector and make a differential measurement meaningless. At 09:09 PM 10/30/00 -0800, you wrote: >Stefan (below) is considering doing a run of PCBs for Bob Shannon's SCALAR >ELECTROSTATIC GRADIOMETER http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/grado.html > >If you're interested in getting a PCB, please contact him. > > >On 19 Oct 2000 Stefan.Kaechele@t-online.de wrote: > > Are there many requests for that gradiometer/layout/built-up thing over > > some month ? > > > > We plan to create an available pcb for this gradiometer which at least > has > > to be built up by interestents. > > If there are interestents in such a bare pcb you can forward them to me. > > > > > > Mit freundlichen Grüssen, > > Stefan Kaechele, Todtmooserstr. 45, 79725 Laufenburg, 07763/929896 > > http://www.palmzip.de > > ## CrossPoint v3.11 R ## > > > >((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) >William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website >billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com >EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science >Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 31 14:16:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA02850; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 14:16:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 14:16:09 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Final Report on Frenette Design Pt. 1 Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 09:15:25 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <200010301108.GAA05003@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <4iqrvs0c3sl1a5j4mh4cvalsh0dsbftk2s@4ax.com> <27urvsgugpk513d0f7q19nt811jmhc8ijj@4ax.com> <39FE6702.EFF62A97@icx.net> <772tvsok9vr83limpfeklqkj3f6mhupjvq@4ax.com> <39FF064F.D03AD375@icx.net> In-Reply-To: <39FF064F.D03AD375@icx.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA02810 Resent-Message-ID: <"f2tpZ1.0.Ri.eIq_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17369 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Stephen Brummitt's message of Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:50:07 -0500: [snip] >Hey! I don't fault you AT ALL for trying! I take a chance on the >improbable myself, every now and then. > >It's just that, when I see statements like this: > >> BTW, I forgot to mention before that you may >> need to run the device for at least several >> hours before heat production starts to take off. >> This is because the hydrinos may need to accumulate >> to the point where there are enough of them to >> catalyze their own shrinkage, so that they can >> undergo alpha producing reactions. > >are apparently swallowed whole, and taken as 'fact', I really have to >grin. I think most people following this list realise that this is just an idea, and may well not work. Nevertheless, if this device works at all, then this is the most likely explanation I can come up with. > >You can "catalyze the shrinkage" of your hydrinos, till the cows come >home, (or, the snipes for that matter), and you will still be waiting >on "alpha producing reactions"!( Whatever the heck that means!) The alpha producing reaction I had in mind is Hydrino + Al27 -> Mg24 + alpha particle You can find out all about hydrinos (if they exist) at www.blacklightpower.com . > >Even if you DO get this thing to work, how is anybody going to explain >why, (and, have it taken seriously)? If it works at all, and the circumstances I have described turn out to be critical parameters, then I think that's a reasonable indication that the theory is correct. As far as being taken seriously is concerned, well I don't expect it will be in the short term, but so what, if it works, it works. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 31 16:48:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA21473; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:47:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:47:41 -0800 Message-ID: <39FF6686.D07D62E5@harti.com> Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 01:40:38 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: JNaudin509@aol.com, "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "ou-builders@egroups.com" X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lz_0f1.0.LF5.jWs_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17370 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: MEG tips Hi JL, mabye you should include rectifier diodes at the output coils ! So the load resistors at the output coils are just getting only the juice from the Back-EMF pulses, when the input coils have been switched off and the PM swings the flux back to the positive +Bsat after the flux had gone to negative -Bsat. What do you think ? -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 31 17:06:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA26944; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:06:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:06:11 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <4f.2d5a9b3.2730c65c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:05:32 EST To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, newman-l@emachine.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"BsuFU.0.ra6.3os_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17371 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Magnetic Equilibrium Motor in child terms! Please see> LaFonte Research Site 1 or http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/myhomepage/profile.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 31 17:22:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA00845; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:21:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:21:42 -0800 Message-ID: <39FF6C08.6207746D@harti.com> Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 02:04:08 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Newman-L Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3_e5.0.zC.a0t_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17372 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Testatika Insider report Thanks Ted for the info. Please let us know, when you have researched this "electric man" ! Maybe Baumann is also a bit "electric" this way ?? Have not heard about this spiritually sensor of him yet... will ask around... Regards, Stefan. -------- Original Message -------- Datum: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:06:32 +0500 >From Ted Bart An: harti@harti.com Hallo Harti ! I think that I should write in English - for our friends in USA or at other places. I have read the many notes going in all directions, all this is very interesting ! For my part I have to make this contribution : When making all the many guess- works done on Baumann's machines it should be kept in mind "that, when Baumann was in prison, he had a very limited amount of materials" , i.e. he did "it" with simple tools and a minimum of exotic stuff. Although elektrets sound very "advanced" I would follow a simpler approach ! Magnets, coils , capacitors, resistors and what can be found in a junk box ! Well, I do not want to stop you doing more sophisticated research. Here an other interesting fact : I have read in the "Kathmandu Post" about a man who produced much confusion in the local scientific community : the man is "electric", charges himself, unvoluntarily, up with many volts ! the RONAST, which is the "Royal Nepal Association for Science and Technology", did some experiments with the man. They checked his cloths and asked him about his food habits. He is vegetarian. Since I can not suppress my curiosity in such things, I made contact with the person. The leader of the photovoltaic section, who worked with him, gave me the persons address in Kathmandu. I met Kumar in the house of his brother where he stayed during the time he visited Kathmandu. In India, Nepal, and many Asian countries, you do not shake hands when you meet with a person. You just put the palms of your hands together and say e.g. "Namaste !" A very nice habit, you do not touch a person if not necessary ! Kumar was sitting on a plastic chair on the terrasse on top of the house. He speaks some English. When the reason of my visit was explaned to him, he smiled and stood up from the chair, walked to an iron tube, which supported a sun shade, approached it slowly and said "look !" a spark of about 3 Milimeters jumped from his finger to the iron tube. It was explained to me that after having stayed in the sun for three minutes or so, the man has charched up again and could produce the same effect over and over again ! He was wearing plastic sandals, as many people here do. The rare phenomenon did make great concern amongs his family and friends ! After exchanging our addresses I left. The man stays, not far from my present address , in Gulariya, 35 kilometers West from Nepalgunj, where I sit now in the office of our workshop. The RONAST could not find an answer but could help the man to "discharge" continously via two brass pins in the heel section of his sandals, which make contact with the street, or what ever ground he stands on. Meanwhile I have built an electrostatic voltmeter, one of the classic type. But at the moment the weather is still too humid to work with. I shall do some experiments with him when winter comes. Anyhow, I have seen that he could light my cigarette lighter with a spark und could feel the light electric shock. No explanation at the time. Have you heard that Baumann "tests" the spiritual progress of the Methernitha members with a kind of Potential-meter ? Sauder also told me this. Nobody knows what kind of instrument he is using, possibly a kind of Ohm-meter or what funny type of set up, gad nose ! I have to go to my work . Two instruments have been carried into the workshop. Until next time Good wishes and success TED From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 31 20:25:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA21404; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:25:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:25:25 -0800 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001031213252.00c391e0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 22:25:25 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford In-Reply-To: References: <005301c0413e$a8244160$a75cadd1@default> <005301c0413e$a8244160$a75cadd1@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"2sKw52.0.GE5.riv_v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17373 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: how to extract energy from gravity and not get hurt It was the title of the thread "how NOT to extract energy from grafity" that reminded me of this story On the Rouge river I believe near the town of Grants Pass Oregon. On a day some ten years past. A set of brothers set out to do something that had never ben done before with bungy cord... The plan was for the two of them to drop from a bridge together on a single tether striking the surface of the Rouge and at the proper moment one of the brothers would let go depositing the other in the water. Cleaver plan.... Having carefully measured the drop distance and with equal caution made the calculation that is so familiar to this type of thrill seeker, the brothers measured out exactly the proper length of flaccid cord. and at the appointed moment they embraced and the duo leapt from the bridge. All was well. The cord reached its distance and began to stretch decelerating with calculated perfection allowing the two to just reach the river surface. At that moment the embrace was loosed and the the selected brother dropped into swirling river. It was at that moment my friends that this plan exposed a minor flaw. A forgotten lesson in physics was suddenly placed in the lime as the remaining brother accelerated rapidly upward striking the bottom of the bridge inducing in himself several disabling enjoys. Was this an animally? Perhaps an instance of over unity? The forgotten lesson was in the storage of energy. You see... There was enough energy stored in the extended cord to return both of the brothers safely to a point just under the level of the bridge. When the mass was cut in half the and the total energy returned to the attached brother. A sufficient amount to propel him to a point just beneath twice the altitude of origin. Ouch! So before you make your claims. it might be a good idea to have your work checked by an unaffiliated talent. Because of these types of minor errors you will find me skeptical, critical and sometimes even a bit scenical. I have the best interests of science in mind. You see... I believe that there is new energy out there.... some where.... Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com