From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 1 06:53:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02008; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 06:52:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 06:52:48 -0700 Message-ID: <3613162D.EF8BE60C@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 13:42:05 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer References: <1cf7c5d5.3611092d@aol.com> <3.0.5.32.19980930131421.0083c970@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NczXR.0.9V.lau4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6722 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > > At 07:08 PM 9/30/98 +0800, you wrote: > >Keasy@aol.com wrote: > >> I agree this is an interesting idea and in fact posted a related proposal a > >> month or so ago. One thing about this that is a little confusing, at > least to > >> me, is that the B fields in a transformer must be continuous, (if we > believe > >> Maxwell's equations) so it is not clear how a change in one winding is > >> eventually felt in the other winding -- ie your "it takes time for magnetic > >> fields to reach the other side" statement (especially on an iron core > with the > >> windings separated). I think there is more going on here than conventional > >> theory addresses. > > > >What exactly do you mean "continuous"? I don't know any Maxwell's > >equations, but I think if there is a changing magnetic field source > >(such as a coil with AC current) and a magnetic field detector a > >distance away, it takes time for signals to travel from the field source > >to the detector. > > Does that mean these "signals" don't travel at the speed of light, at > least? Which in small distances would be more or less instantaneous. > I meant the "signals" don't travel at infinite speed but at a finite and constant speed (which is probably the speed of light). From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 1 12:00:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA29066; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 11:53:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 11:53:12 -0700 Message-ID: <3613D170.BED@lcia.com> Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 15:01:04 -0400 From: B25B@LCIA.COM (RON BRENNEN) Reply-To: b25b@LCIA.COM X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: CONVERTING HI VOLT D.C. TO LOW VOLT DC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9xHD_1.0._57.N-y4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6723 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HI ALL{ Can anyone tell me how to efficiently convert 50 volts DC @ 1 amp to 12 volts, 4 amp DC? Ron Brennen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 1 12:11:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA05471; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 12:08:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 12:08:05 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981001005344.009ef7d0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 00:53:44 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980929074650.008663b0@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980930181542.00847e00@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980929022404.00869e30@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980930131134.0083c280@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928154911.00863760@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980929092038.00934350@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928040605.00863770@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"aejFj.0.CL1.KCz4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6724 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I guess that means that you are unable to answer the question. Lee At 07:46 AM 9/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 06:15 PM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote: >> >One think I will say about 6th graders, is that thay ask questions about >the topic, and are quite focused, as most who will dare to ask questions >read the material, and frame their questions corrctly. ON THE MATERIAL >REVIEWED > > >I mentioned this once before. But a very astute and credential scientist >>once told me that if a person truly understood what it is they are talking >>about, they could explain it in plain language understandable to a student >>in the 6th grade. Meaning no appeal to jargon or authority. >> >>So I immediately asked him for a plain language explanation of the >>methodology used by astronomers and physicists to obtain the value that is >>given for the mass of the moon (.0129 that of Earth). >> >>Would you believe that he couldn't do such a simple thing. >> >>So I had to do volumes of research to come up with my own answer. >> >>I've thrown the question to a number of self styled experts, only to be met >>with evasions, attempts at changing the subject, (including making me the >>subject). I've received two answers both of them incomprehensible to a 6th >>grader. One of them outrageously long, telling me to tell the students how >>much of a genius Newton was, and then later telling me to lie to them, so >>as not to confuse them. >> >>I even had a noted astronomer admit that he lies to first year physics >>students "for their own good", so as not to confuse them. >> >>It's really simple though, two paragraphs, three at most, and the >>embarassing thing (at least embarassing if one has integrityand is >>perceptive) is that the word assumption has to be used a number of times. >> >>I don't think, however, that I would like to spring it on a 6th grader, for >>they are still perceptive enough at that age, to notice flaws and ask >>embarrassing questions, which can only be answered by calling on authority >>or telling them to do some research, or the coup de grace - attempt to >>embarass them in public, by denigration and innuendo. >> >>Lee >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 1 16:40:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA29755; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 16:36:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 16:36:33 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980929215721.00864720@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:57:21 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981001005344.009ef7d0@rockisland.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980929074650.008663b0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980930181542.00847e00@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980929022404.00869e30@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980930131134.0083c280@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928154911.00863760@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980929092038.00934350@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928040605.00863770@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"5TuGU2.0.qG7.1815s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6725 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:53 AM 10/1/98 -0700, you wrote: >I guess that means that you are unable to answer the question. Dear Lee. "THE" question????? As of yet, you seem not to have asked one. You typed the word "hydrogen" followed by a question mark. Does that in your mind constitute a specific question? I have worked in hydrogen, but that is totally superfluous to the discussion of the nature of this energy. Next, you write a quick sentence, "A battery?" Do you mean here, to ask if this medium is like or can be referred to as a battery? Or what shape this storage takes. If this is what you intended, yes it is a way to store energy in a gaseous medium, and to later seek that energy back. So yes, in a somewhat, specific way, it could be looked upon as a battery. If the previous mentioning of Hydrogen refers to what you would call this, than I stand firm on my presumption that you have not read the supporting information that I had provided. Beyond that I would point out that the name for the medium is as stated "Hydroxy", a combination of hydrogen and oxygen derived from the electrolyses of water would lead one to believe more is here than just hydrogen. So, the answer is "NO! Not Hydrogen. Not just hydrogen, but a perfectly balanced ratio of hydrogen and oxygen, hence the name Hydroxy. Later you reference static electricity in a vague conjecture. Well I would say that, yes, it more emulates a static electric like state of energy, that is until you examine its combustible nature. It then would mean that you are burning static electricity. Am I given to understand this is what you think it is? Static electricity, in total? Please respond to this issue specifically. You did bring the analogy of a match into the conversation some pages back, and yes much like a match Hydroxy contains the potential for combustion and heat. Like a match, PNE, when in medium can also release its energy thermally when subjected to an ignition source, temperatures of 1.2 times the temperature of the sun. It would then seem to shape up as some form of electromagnetic thing, if it were not also the fact, that this medium can also be further excited to higher levels of energy potential by direct exposure to sunlight. This aspect of photo sensitivity than begs the incorporation of still further implications, such as what is the basic nature of energy that is stored in the photon??? So I hope form your broken sentences, hanging words, and a few vague speculations, I have managed to discern your questions and answer them. I may add that most this would have been unnecessary had you read the reports that I had referenced. Once again however I will make an attempt to help you find focus. ENERGY ENERGY ENERGY Not boxes, shapes, tanks, motors, wires, materials, moon gas, or simply hydrogen. Thank you again for your interest. I would point out one thing further. You are very critical of scientific explanations for complex physical structures. You demand that they, be clear and easy to understand, as short as possible and to make clear their points of understanding, and further, that they use common terms. Here, in this group, we use specific terms only if clearly understood in most common scientific conversation and are well accepted. Scientific terminology is somewhat complicated, but there are excellent references available to seek definitions. Webster and Time Life, have gone to great lengths to render these definitions in clear lay terms, I would suggest them both. But, I think it unfair of you to expect each person in this group you might speak with, to have the same level of expertise that these companies have worked years to develop. So my advice is clearly, review all material, frame your questions clearly and to the point, and limit your questions to one or two issues per posting. If you do this you may have a chance to gain knowledge. As far as wisdom, I feel that may be a little more difficult, as I have found wisdom is not in the quoting of others, but in the way we respond to and implement knowledge. To simply continue to quote others, seems to me to state indirectly that you do not value your own points of view. Yours truly TR Knudtson PS I hope that you do not see this as having over used innuendo, or denigration in any manner! I think to most, my points are direct and simple to understand. > >Lee > >At 07:46 AM 9/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >>At 06:15 PM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote: >>> >>One thing I will say about 6th graders, is that thay ask questions about >>the topic, and are quite focused, as most who will dare to ask questions, >>read the material, and frame their questions corrctly. ON THE MATERIAL >>REVIEWED >> >> >>I mentioned this once before. But a very astute and credential scientist >>>once told me that if a person truly understood what it is they are talking >>>about, they could explain it in plain language understandable to a student >>>in the 6th grade. Meaning no appeal to jargon or authority. >>> >>>So I immediately asked him for a plain language explanation of the >>>methodology used by astronomers and physicists to obtain the value that is >>>given for the mass of the moon (.0129 that of Earth). >>> >>>Would you believe that he couldn't do such a simple thing. >>> >>>So I had to do volumes of research to come up with my own answer. >>> >>>I've thrown the question to a number of self styled experts, only to be met >>>with evasions, attempts at changing the subject, (including making me the >>>subject). I've received two answers both of them incomprehensible to a 6th >>>grader. One of them outrageously long, telling me to tell the students how >>>much of a genius Newton was, and then later telling me to lie to them, so >>>as not to confuse them. >>> >>>I even had a noted astronomer admit that he lies to first year physics >>>students "for their own good", so as not to confuse them. >>> >>>It's really simple though, two paragraphs, three at most, and the >>>embarassing thing (at least embarassing if one has integrityand is >>>perceptive) is that the word assumption has to be used a number of times. >>> >>>I don't think, however, that I would like to spring it on a 6th grader, for >>>they are still perceptive enough at that age, to notice flaws and ask >>>embarrassing questions, which can only be answered by calling on authority >>>or telling them to do some research, or the coup de grace - attempt to >>>embarass them in public, by denigration and innuendo. >>> >>>Lee >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 1 16:40:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA30009; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 16:37:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 16:37:30 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980929215819.00866300@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:58:19 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Lee markland and energy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"2uF5z2.0.pK7.v815s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6726 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:53 AM 10/1/98 -0700, you wrote: >I guess that means that you are unable to answer the question. Dear Lee. "THE" question????? As of yet, you seem not to have asked one. You typed the word "hydrogen" followed by a question mark. Does that in your mind constitute a specific question? I have worked in hydrogen, but that is totally superfluous to the discussion of the nature of this energy. Next, you write a quick sentence, "A battery?" Do you mean here, to ask if this medium is like or can be referred to as a battery? Or what shape this storage takes. If this is what you intended, yes it is a way to store energy in a gaseous medium, and to later seek that energy back. So yes, in a somewhat, specific way, it could be looked upon as a battery. If the previous mentioning of Hydrogen refers to what you would call this, than I stand firm on my presumption that you have not read the supporting information that I had provided. Beyond that I would point out that the name for the medium is as stated "Hydroxy", a combination of hydrogen and oxygen derived from the electrolyses of water would lead one to believe more is here than just hydrogen. So, the answer is "NO! Not Hydrogen. Not just hydrogen, but a perfectly balanced ratio of hydrogen and oxygen, hence the name Hydroxy. Later you reference static electricity in a vague conjecture. Well I would say that, yes, it more emulates a static electric like state of energy, that is until you examine its combustible nature. It then would mean that you are burning static electricity. Am I given to understand this is what you think it is? Static electricity, in total? Please respond to this issue specifically. You did bring the analogy of a match into the conversation some pages back, and yes much like a match Hydroxy contains the potential for combustion and heat. Like a match, PNE, when in medium can also release its energy thermally when subjected to an ignition source, temperatures of 1.2 times the temperature of the sun. It would then seem to shape up as some form of electromagnetic thing, if it were not also the fact, that this medium can also be further excited to higher levels of energy potential by direct exposure to sunlight. This aspect of photo sensitivity than begs the incorporation of still further implications, such as what is the basic nature of energy that is stored in the photon??? So I hope form your broken sentences, hanging words, and a few vague speculations, I have managed to discern your questions and answer them. I may add that most this would have been unnecessary had you read the reports that I had referenced. Once again however I will make an attempt to help you find focus. ENERGY ENERGY ENERGY Not boxes, shapes, tanks, motors, wires, materials, moon gas, or simply hydrogen. Thank you again for your interest. I would point out one thing further. You are very critical of scientific explanations for complex physical structures. You demand that they, be clear and easy to understand, as short as possible and to make clear their points of understanding, and further, that they use common terms. Here, in this group, we use specific terms only if clearly understood in most common scientific conversation and are well accepted. Scientific terminology is somewhat complicated, but there are excellent references available to seek definitions. Webster and Time Life, have gone to great lengths to render these definitions in clear lay terms, I would suggest them both. But, I think it unfair of you to expect each person in this group you might speak with, to have the same level of expertise that these companies have worked years to develop. So my advice is clearly, review all material, frame your questions clearly and to the point, and limit your questions to one or two issues per posting. If you do this you may have a chance to gain knowledge. As far as wisdom, I feel that may be a little more difficult, as I have found wisdom is not in the quoting of others, but in the way we respond to and implement knowledge. To simply continue to quote others, seems to me to state indirectly that you do not value your own points of view. Yours truly TR Knudtson PS I hope that you do not see this as having over used innuendo, or denigration in any manner! I think to most, my points are direct and simple to understand. > >Lee > >At 07:46 AM 9/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >>At 06:15 PM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote: >>> >>One thing I will say about 6th graders, is that thay ask questions about >>the topic, and are quite focused, as most who will dare to ask questions, >>read the material, and frame their questions corrctly. ON THE MATERIAL >>REVIEWED >> >> >>I mentioned this once before. But a very astute and credential scientist >>>once told me that if a person truly understood what it is they are talking >>>about, they could explain it in plain language understandable to a student >>>in the 6th grade. Meaning no appeal to jargon or authority. >>> >>>So I immediately asked him for a plain language explanation of the >>>methodology used by astronomers and physicists to obtain the value that is >>>given for the mass of the moon (.0129 that of Earth). >>> >>>Would you believe that he couldn't do such a simple thing. >>> >>>So I had to do volumes of research to come up with my own answer. >>> >>>I've thrown the question to a number of self styled experts, only to be met >>>with evasions, attempts at changing the subject, (including making me the >>>subject). I've received two answers both of them incomprehensible to a 6th >>>grader. One of them outrageously long, telling me to tell the students how >>>much of a genius Newton was, and then later telling me to lie to them, so >>>as not to confuse them. >>> >>>I even had a noted astronomer admit that he lies to first year physics >>>students "for their own good", so as not to confuse them. >>> >>>It's really simple though, two paragraphs, three at most, and the >>>embarassing thing (at least embarassing if one has integrityand is >>>perceptive) is that the word assumption has to be used a number of times. >>> >>>I don't think, however, that I would like to spring it on a 6th grader, for >>>they are still perceptive enough at that age, to notice flaws and ask >>>embarrassing questions, which can only be answered by calling on authority >>>or telling them to do some research, or the coup de grace - attempt to >>>embarass them in public, by denigration and innuendo. >>> >>>Lee >>> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 1 17:28:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA20044; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 17:24:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 17:24:57 -0700 Message-ID: <36142A86.84202BA0@harti.com> Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 02:21:11 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Greg Watson SMOT refunds ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"S5iyw1.0.4v4.Or15s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6727 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, did anybody hear lately anything from Mr. Greg Watson ? Did anybody receive already his SMOT refunds ? Did anybody had email contact with him in the last 2 months ? What is the latest words on his SMOT business and his DMEC messup ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 1 17:34:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA22148; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 17:28:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 17:28:37 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981001065045.00a10320@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 06:50:45 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980929215721.00864720@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19981001005344.009ef7d0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980929074650.008663b0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980930181542.00847e00@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980929022404.00869e30@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980930131134.0083c280@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928154911.00863760@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980929092038.00934350@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928040605.00863770@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Bybxa.0.uP5.ru15s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6728 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I asked a simple question about how this energy could be stored. That is just laying around waiting to be tapped. Hence the "battery"? Question mark. So I haven't read the "supporting" documentation. And I doubt that you read the supporting documentation on everything of interest to you. Just not enough time, nor access to all the data. Therefore I thought a simple question would elicit a simple response. I go through this quite frequently. My own particular area of interest and research has been money, what it really is, how it is created, who creates it and why prices rise. I just answered a request from someone on another listserve (that I unsubbed some time back). I took the time to answer their question. I could have referred them to The Public Relations Department of the New York Federal Reserve. but it was no effort to give a clear precise answer to the question. Here was his response: > -Caveat Lector- > > You've answered my question clearly and concisely. Thank you. > > >Eric. > I had no problem at all answering a question asked. Sorry that you do. Scientific Jargon is short hand, and it serves a purpose when communicating amongst folk who understand what the other person says. Unfortunately in human affairs, one persons understanding is not another persons understanding, so misconceptions arise and even arguments. I have no need nor desire to get in an argument with you. but I will remain adamant, that there isn't anything that can't be explained in clear precise language understandable to a student in the 6th grade. If the person who is speaking understands themselves the subject matter. It is like money, I can talk of M1 and M2, and maximum satisfifaction utilities (actually a b.s. concept, one can't quantify human needs and satisfaction). Or I can use ordinary terms. but thank you for your response. sorry I so tested your patience. I guess I should obey your stereotype and go off gossiping and talking of trivia. :) Lee I will now print out your response and read it more fully. Definitely have trouble reading stuff off of the computer screen. At 09:57 PM 9/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 12:53 AM 10/1/98 -0700, you wrote: >>I guess that means that you are unable to answer the question. > >Dear Lee. > >"THE" question????? > >As of yet, you seem not to have asked one. > >You typed the word "hydrogen" followed by a question mark. Does that in >your mind constitute a specific question? I have worked in hydrogen, but >that is totally superfluous to the discussion of the nature of this energy. > Next, you write a quick sentence, "A battery?" Do you mean here, to ask >if this medium is like or can be referred to as a battery? Or what shape >this storage takes. If this is what you intended, yes it is a way to store >energy in a gaseous medium, and to later seek that energy back. So yes, in >a somewhat, specific way, it could be looked upon as a battery. > >If the previous mentioning of Hydrogen refers to what you would call this, >than I stand firm on my presumption that you have not read the supporting >information that I had provided. Beyond that I would point out that the >name for the medium is as stated "Hydroxy", a combination of hydrogen and >oxygen derived from the electrolyses of water would lead one to believe >more is here than just hydrogen. So, the answer is "NO! Not Hydrogen. Not >just hydrogen, but a perfectly balanced ratio of hydrogen and oxygen, hence >the name Hydroxy. > >Later you reference static electricity in a vague conjecture. Well I would >say that, yes, it more emulates a static electric like state of energy, >that is until you examine its combustible nature. It then would mean that >you are burning static electricity. Am I given to understand this is what >you think it is? Static electricity, in total? Please respond to this issue >specifically. > >You did bring the analogy of a match into the conversation some pages back, >and yes much like a match Hydroxy contains the potential for combustion and >heat. Like a match, PNE, when in medium can also release its energy >thermally when subjected to an ignition source, temperatures of 1.2 times >the temperature of the sun. It would then seem to shape up as some form of >electromagnetic thing, if it were not also the fact, that this medium can >also be further excited to higher levels of energy potential by direct >exposure to sunlight. > >This aspect of photo sensitivity than begs the incorporation of still >further implications, such as what is the basic nature of energy that is >stored in the photon??? So I hope form your broken sentences, hanging >words, and a few vague speculations, I have managed to discern your >questions and answer them. I may add that most this would have been >unnecessary had you read the reports that I had referenced. > >Once again however I will make an attempt to help you find focus. > >ENERGY >ENERGY >ENERGY > >Not boxes, shapes, tanks, motors, wires, materials, moon gas, or simply >hydrogen. > >Thank you again for your interest. > >I would point out one thing further. You are very critical of scientific >explanations for complex physical structures. You demand that they, be >clear and easy to understand, as short as possible and to make clear their >points of understanding, and further, that they use common terms. Here, in >this group, we use specific terms only if clearly understood in most common >scientific conversation and are well accepted. Scientific terminology is >somewhat complicated, but there are excellent references available to seek >definitions. Webster and Time Life, have gone to great lengths to render >these definitions in clear lay terms, I would suggest them both. But, I >think it unfair of you to expect each person in this group you might speak >with, to have the same level of expertise that these companies have worked >years to develop. > >So my advice is clearly, review all material, frame your questions clearly >and to the point, and limit your questions to one or two issues per posting. > >If you do this you may have a chance to gain knowledge. As far as wisdom, >I feel that may be a little more difficult, as I have found wisdom is not >in the quoting of others, but in the way we respond to and implement >knowledge. To simply continue to quote others, seems to me to state >indirectly that you do not value your own points of view. > >Yours truly > >TR Knudtson > >PS I hope that you do not see this as having over used innuendo, or >denigration in any manner! I think to most, my points are direct and >simple to understand. > > >> >>Lee >> >>At 07:46 AM 9/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>At 06:15 PM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>> >>>One thing I will say about 6th graders, is that thay ask questions about >>>the topic, and are quite focused, as most who will dare to ask questions, >>>read the material, and frame their questions corrctly. ON THE MATERIAL >>>REVIEWED >>> >>> >>>I mentioned this once before. But a very astute and credential scientist >>>>once told me that if a person truly understood what it is they are talking >>>>about, they could explain it in plain language understandable to a student >>>>in the 6th grade. Meaning no appeal to jargon or authority. >>>> >>>>So I immediately asked him for a plain language explanation of the >>>>methodology used by astronomers and physicists to obtain the value that is >>>>given for the mass of the moon (.0129 that of Earth). >>>> >>>>Would you believe that he couldn't do such a simple thing. >>>> >>>>So I had to do volumes of research to come up with my own answer. >>>> >>>>I've thrown the question to a number of self styled experts, only to be met >>>>with evasions, attempts at changing the subject, (including making me the >>>>subject). I've received two answers both of them incomprehensible to a 6th >>>>grader. One of them outrageously long, telling me to tell the students how >>>>much of a genius Newton was, and then later telling me to lie to them, so >>>>as not to confuse them. >>>> >>>>I even had a noted astronomer admit that he lies to first year physics >>>>students "for their own good", so as not to confuse them. >>>> >>>>It's really simple though, two paragraphs, three at most, and the >>>>embarassing thing (at least embarassing if one has integrityand is >>>>perceptive) is that the word assumption has to be used a number of times. >>>> >>>>I don't think, however, that I would like to spring it on a 6th grader, for >>>>they are still perceptive enough at that age, to notice flaws and ask >>>>embarrassing questions, which can only be answered by calling on authority >>>>or telling them to do some research, or the coup de grace - attempt to >>>>embarass them in public, by denigration and innuendo. >>>> >>>>Lee >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 1 19:44:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA23146; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 19:40:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 19:40:20 -0700 Message-ID: <36143D0C.31C01923@dcache.net> Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 22:40:12 -0400 From: James J Jiamachello X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge References: <3.0.5.32.19980930131134.0083c280@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928154911.00863760@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980929092038.00934350@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928040605.00863770@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980930181542.00847e00@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"u1Iq53.0.Nf5.Hq35s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6729 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Lee Lee Markland wrote: snip > if a person truly understood what it is they are talking > about, they could explain it in plain language understandable to a > student in the 6th grade. ... no appeal to jargon or authority. snip I have been following your queries for some time. The approach I like best is everything is a puzzle, the universe, ourselves, our place in it, and the best part is that we get to play with the puzzle all the time! One of the coolest puzzlemasters was the physicist Richard P. Feynman. I really enjoy the way he describes science as he is a wonderful storyteller. Some good clear discussions of science by Feynman are: The Character of Physical Law, ISBN 0 262 56003 8 Six Easy Pieces, ISBN 0 201 40955 0 QED, The Strange Theory of Light and Matter, ISBN 0 691 02417 0 The neat thing about Feynman is he shows how things are related, and how our everyday observations can be useful and yet a hindrance if we cling to them when we experience anomalies Your example of determining the weight of the moon is good. I will tell you I don't know then by comparison try to determine some information with something I am familiar with. Example: 1 the moon looks round to me 2 is the earth round too? 3 maybe if I measure shadows at different locations on the earth I can determine that 4 OK I get some idea that the earth is round 5 While doing all this measuring I notice that a sphere of glass can project an image of an object on a paper 6 I also notice that the image size is related to the object size and the glass sphere all by simple geometry 7 Using this relationship I come up with a ratio of the sphere of the earth to the sphere of the moon. 8 Now I can not get to the moon but as a guesstimate a sphere of sand that weighs a pound on earth takes up so much space, so I will use X sand as earth and Y sand as moon 9 Now I will look to see if I can learn anything from this guess 10 On and On we puzzle along and we need to be honest with ourselves if the pieces do not fit and be perceptive to what comes our way. Enjoy the journey Jim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 1 20:12:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA11336; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 20:07:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 20:07:48 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19960110084002.00a24920@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 08:40:02 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <36143D0C.31C01923@dcache.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980930131134.0083c280@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928154911.00863760@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980929092038.00934350@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928040605.00863770@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980930181542.00847e00@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"okzNh1.0.am2.2E45s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6730 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks, great response and very even handed and now my curiousity is aroused. I've heard of Feynman, now I have to point my browser to amazon.com and order the books. Anomalies, however are - if taken notice of - a useful tool. They serve as a warning sign at the RR Xing, especially when it flashes red and the bells go off. Take heed, and listen, something is going on here, pay attention or you'll get run over.If the theory were correct and predictive, and if the law was indeed a law and absolute, then there would be no anomalies. Anomalies serve purpose of telling us that we are on the wrong track, or about to get run over by a train. Thanks so very much for arousing my curiousity :) Lee At 10:40 PM 10/1/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hello Lee > >Lee Markland wrote: > >snip > >> if a person truly understood what it is they are talking >> about, they could explain it in plain language understandable to a >> student in the 6th grade. ... no appeal to jargon or authority. > >snip > >I have been following your queries for some time. > >The approach I like best is everything is a puzzle, the >universe, >ourselves, our place in it, and the best part is that >we get to >play with the puzzle all the time! > >One of the coolest puzzlemasters was the physicist >Richard P. Feynman. > >I really enjoy the way he describes science as he is a >wonderful >storyteller. > >Some good clear discussions of science by Feynman are: >The Character of Physical Law, ISBN 0 262 56003 8 >Six Easy Pieces, ISBN 0 201 40955 0 >QED, The Strange Theory of Light and Matter, ISBN 0 691 >02417 0 > >The neat thing about Feynman is he shows how things are >related, >and how our everyday observations can be useful and yet >a hindrance >if we cling to them when we experience anomalies > >Your example of determining the weight of the moon is >good. I will >tell you I don't know then by comparison try to >determine some information with something I am familiar >with. > >Example: >1 the moon looks round to me >2 is the earth round too? >3 maybe if I measure shadows at different > locations on the earth I can determine that >4 OK I get some idea that the earth is round >5 While doing all this measuring I notice that > a sphere of glass can project an image of an > object on a paper >6 I also notice that the image size is related > to the object size and the glass sphere all > by simple geometry >7 Using this relationship I come up with a ratio > of the sphere of the earth to the sphere of the > moon. >8 Now I can not get to the moon but as a > guesstimate a sphere of sand that weighs a pound > on earth takes up so much space, so > I will use X sand as earth and Y sand as moon >9 Now I will look to see if I can learn anything > from this guess >10 On and On we puzzle along and we need to be honest > with ourselves if the pieces do not fit and be > perceptive to what comes our way. > >Enjoy the journey > >Jim > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 1 21:00:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA06091; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 20:57:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 20:57:13 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:58:51 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980929215721.00864720@earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"4RqQ73.0.oU1.Oy45s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6731 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HI Lee, > >At 07:46 AM 9/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>snip== >>>So I immediately asked him for a plain language explanation of the >>>methodology used by astronomers and physicists to obtain the value >>>that is given for the mass of the moon (.0129 that of Earth). >>> >>>Would you believe that he couldn't do such a simple thing. >>> ^^^^^^ >>>So I had to do volumes of research to come up with my own answer. >>>snip=== ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>> >>>It's really simple though, two paragraphs, three at most, and the >>>embarassing thing (at least embarassing if one has integrityand is >>>perceptive) is that the word assumption has to be used a number of >>>times. >>>Lee ---------------------------- Hi Lee, Ok I'll bite :), explain to me in two, not to exceed three paragraphs, WHY the mass of the moon is .0129 that of earths. I've TOO wondered about that figure. Sounds intriguing and educational (at least for me:)! Thanks in advance -=se=- steve ('assuming' is ok:) ekwall 'parspecs' ok too, if 6th or 7th grade level From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 1 21:07:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA08839; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:01:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:01:40 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980930022232.0086b8e0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 02:22:32 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19960110084002.00a24920@rockisland.com> References: <36143D0C.31C01923@dcache.net> <3.0.5.32.19980930131134.0083c280@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928154911.00863760@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980929092038.00934350@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928040605.00863770@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980930181542.00847e00@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZceGq.0.x92.Z055s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6732 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: lee actialy the size of the moon was first estimated quite acuratly by observing day time eclipses and mesuring the diamiter of the projection on the surface of the earth. It was very close. accuracy in the .001 area. Best TR Knudtson At 08:40 AM 1/10/96 -0700, you wrote: >Thanks, great response and very even handed and now my curiousity is >aroused. I've heard of Feynman, now I have to point my browser to >amazon.com and order the books. > >Anomalies, however are - if taken notice of - a useful tool. They serve as >a warning sign at the RR Xing, especially when it flashes red and the bells >go off. > >Take heed, and listen, something is going on here, pay attention or you'll >get run over.If the theory were correct and predictive, and if the law was >indeed a law and absolute, then there would be no anomalies. > >Anomalies serve purpose of telling us that we are on the wrong track, or >about to get run over by a train. > >Thanks so very much for arousing my curiousity > >:) > >Lee > >At 10:40 PM 10/1/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Hello Lee >> >>Lee Markland wrote: >> >>snip >> >>> if a person truly understood what it is they are talking >>> about, they could explain it in plain language understandable to a >>> student in the 6th grade. ... no appeal to jargon or authority. >> >>snip >> >>I have been following your queries for some time. >> >>The approach I like best is everything is a puzzle, the >>universe, >>ourselves, our place in it, and the best part is that >>we get to >>play with the puzzle all the time! >> >>One of the coolest puzzlemasters was the physicist >>Richard P. Feynman. >> >>I really enjoy the way he describes science as he is a >>wonderful >>storyteller. >> >>Some good clear discussions of science by Feynman are: >>The Character of Physical Law, ISBN 0 262 56003 8 >>Six Easy Pieces, ISBN 0 201 40955 0 >>QED, The Strange Theory of Light and Matter, ISBN 0 691 >>02417 0 >> >>The neat thing about Feynman is he shows how things are >>related, >>and how our everyday observations can be useful and yet >>a hindrance >>if we cling to them when we experience anomalies >> >>Your example of determining the weight of the moon is >>good. I will >>tell you I don't know then by comparison try to >>determine some information with something I am familiar >>with. >> >>Example: >>1 the moon looks round to me >>2 is the earth round too? >>3 maybe if I measure shadows at different >> locations on the earth I can determine that >>4 OK I get some idea that the earth is round >>5 While doing all this measuring I notice that >> a sphere of glass can project an image of an >> object on a paper >>6 I also notice that the image size is related >> to the object size and the glass sphere all >> by simple geometry >>7 Using this relationship I come up with a ratio >> of the sphere of the earth to the sphere of the >> moon. >>8 Now I can not get to the moon but as a >> guesstimate a sphere of sand that weighs a pound >> on earth takes up so much space, so >> I will use X sand as earth and Y sand as moon >>9 Now I will look to see if I can learn anything >> from this guess >>10 On and On we puzzle along and we need to be honest >> with ourselves if the pieces do not fit and be >> perceptive to what comes our way. >> >>Enjoy the journey >> >>Jim >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 1 21:28:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA20525; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:26:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:26:43 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981001105752.009ffb00@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 10:57:52 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980929215721.00864720@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"_b9KZ2.0.d05.3O55s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6733 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:58 PM 10/1/98 -0600, you wrote: > HI Lee, > > > >At 07:46 AM 9/29/98 -0700, you wrote: > >>>snip== > >>>So I immediately asked him for a plain language explanation of the > >>>methodology used by astronomers and physicists to obtain the value > >>>that is given for the mass of the moon (.0129 that of Earth). > >>> > >>>Would you believe that he couldn't do such a simple thing. > >>> ^^^^^^ > >>>So I had to do volumes of research to come up with my own answer. > >>>snip=== ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >>> > >>>It's really simple though, two paragraphs, three at most, and the > >>>embarassing thing (at least embarassing if one has integrityand is > >>>perceptive) is that the word assumption has to be used a number of > >>>times. > >>>Lee >---------------------------- >Hi Lee, > Ok I'll bite :), explain to me in two, not to exceed three paragraphs, >WHY the mass of the moon is .0129 that of earths. I've TOO wondered about >that figure. Sounds intriguing and educational (at least for me:)! > >Thanks in advance >-=se=- >steve ('assuming' is ok:) ekwall >'parspecs' ok too, if 6th or 7th grade level Well I'm not going to explain why it is .0129 that of Earth, because I don't "believe" that it is, but I can tell you how "they" come up with the figures, that is the technique they use. I was just hoping that one of these here experts could show this dumb old cluck how it is done and then compare answers. Lee. I think though I will do it under seperate cover, private and let them show how smart they are. lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 1 22:24:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA14902; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:18:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:18:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199810020519.BAA05618@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 17:26:09 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zI2zE.0.Pe3.H865s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6734 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: 13 thousandths might be permissable. ---------- > From: Lee Markland > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Wisdom and knowledge > Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 8:15 PM > > I mentioned this once before. But a very astute and credential scientist > once told me that if a person truly understood what it is they are talking > about, they could explain it in plain language understandable to a student > in the 6th grade. Meaning no appeal to jargon or authority. > > So I immediately asked him for a plain language explanation of the > methodology used by astronomers and physicists to obtain the value that is > given for the mass of the moon (.0129 that of Earth). > > Would you believe that he couldn't do such a simple thing. > > So I had to do volumes of research to come up with my own answer. > > I've thrown the question to a number of self styled experts, only to be met > with evasions, attempts at changing the subject, (including making me the > subject). I've received two answers both of them incomprehensible to a 6th > grader. One of them outrageously long, telling me to tell the students how > much of a genius Newton was, and then later telling me to lie to them, so > as not to confuse them. > > I even had a noted astronomer admit that he lies to first year physics > students "for their own good", so as not to confuse them. > > It's really simple though, two paragraphs, three at most, and the > embarassing thing (at least embarassing if one has integrityand is > perceptive) is that the word assumption has to be used a number of times. > > I don't think, however, that I would like to spring it on a 6th grader, for > they are still perceptive enough at that age, to notice flaws and ask > embarrassing questions, which can only be answered by calling on authority > or telling them to do some research, or the coup de grace - attempt to > embarass them in public, by denigration and innuendo. > > Lee > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 1 22:28:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA18587; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:23:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:23:45 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981001115528.00a14980@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 11:55:28 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <199810020519.BAA05618@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"jXeB2.0.HY4.WD65s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6736 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: 13 thousands what? Permissible? Lee At 05:26 PM 10/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >13 thousandths might be permissable. > >---------- >> From: Lee Markland >> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> Subject: Wisdom and knowledge >> Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 8:15 PM >> >> I mentioned this once before. But a very astute and credential scientist >> once told me that if a person truly understood what it is they are >talking >> about, they could explain it in plain language understandable to a >student >> in the 6th grade. Meaning no appeal to jargon or authority. >> >> So I immediately asked him for a plain language explanation of the >> methodology used by astronomers and physicists to obtain the value that >is >> given for the mass of the moon (.0129 that of Earth). >> >> Would you believe that he couldn't do such a simple thing. >> >> So I had to do volumes of research to come up with my own answer. >> >> I've thrown the question to a number of self styled experts, only to be >met >> with evasions, attempts at changing the subject, (including making me the >> subject). I've received two answers both of them incomprehensible to a >6th >> grader. One of them outrageously long, telling me to tell the students >how >> much of a genius Newton was, and then later telling me to lie to them, so >> as not to confuse them. >> >> I even had a noted astronomer admit that he lies to first year physics >> students "for their own good", so as not to confuse them. >> >> It's really simple though, two paragraphs, three at most, and the >> embarassing thing (at least embarassing if one has integrityand is >> perceptive) is that the word assumption has to be used a number of times. >> >> I don't think, however, that I would like to spring it on a 6th grader, >for >> they are still perceptive enough at that age, to notice flaws and ask >> embarrassing questions, which can only be answered by calling on >authority >> or telling them to do some research, or the coup de grace - attempt to >> embarass them in public, by denigration and innuendo. >> >> Lee >> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 1 22:47:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA29967; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:39:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:39:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199810020540.BAA26030@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 17:48:42 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"46t6F1.0.yJ7.aS65s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6737 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: .013 is 66% of the .02 figure. Is that permissable? ---------- > From: Lee Markland > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge > Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 1:55 PM > > 13 thousands what? Permissible? > > Lee > > At 05:26 PM 10/1/98 -0500, you wrote: > >13 thousandths might be permissable. > > > >---------- > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 1 23:26:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA17405; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:22:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:22:06 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981001115352.00a12660@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 11:53:52 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980930022232.0086b8e0@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19960110084002.00a24920@rockisland.com> <36143D0C.31C01923@dcache.net> <3.0.5.32.19980930131134.0083c280@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928154911.00863760@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980929092038.00934350@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928040605.00863770@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980930181542.00847e00@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"-txvI.0.YF4.zB65s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6735 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks. But the question wasn't the size (volume-radius-diameter of the moon) but that figure the Newtonians love so much - the Mass of the moon. The point is that there is a difference between the size of the moon (radius - volume - and the mass of the moon). My question addressed the Mass of the moon, and how that figure of .01229 was derived. The volume of the moon is I repeat, .02 that of Earth. For those who need a refresher course, following is the nonsensical (and extremely poor grammetical) definition of mass. It is A noun adjective characteristic of a noun... That manner of grammetical construct works well in Spanish (House White) but not in English. For proper English it should be written A characteristic quantity of a body .. but then that wouldn't make any more sense than the official definition. Moon Stats follow below the definition of mass. http://sulu.lerc.nasa.gov/dictionary/a.html mass (symbol m) A quantity characteristic of a body, which relates the attraction of this body towar another body. http://wwwflag.wr.usgs.gov/USGSFlag/Space/wall/moon.html The Moon Constants MEAN RADIUS: 1737.4 km MASS: 0.012 (Earth=1) DENSITY: 3.34 (gm/cm) GRAVITY: 0.165 (Earth=1) ORBIT PERIOD: 27.32 (Earth days) ROTATION PERIOD: 27.32 (Earth days) SEMIMAJOR AXIS OF ORBIT: 384,400 km ECCENTRICITY OF ORBIT: 0.055 At 02:22 AM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote: >lee >actialy the size of the moon was first estimated quite acuratly by >observing day time eclipses and mesuring the diamiter of the projection on >the surface of the earth. It was very close. accuracy in the .001 area. > >Best > >TR Knudtson > > > >At 08:40 AM 1/10/96 -0700, you wrote: >>Thanks, great response and very even handed and now my curiousity is >>aroused. I've heard of Feynman, now I have to point my browser to >>amazon.com and order the books. >> >>Anomalies, however are - if taken notice of - a useful tool. They serve as >>a warning sign at the RR Xing, especially when it flashes red and the bells >>go off. >> >>Take heed, and listen, something is going on here, pay attention or you'll >>get run over.If the theory were correct and predictive, and if the law was >>indeed a law and absolute, then there would be no anomalies. >> >>Anomalies serve purpose of telling us that we are on the wrong track, or >>about to get run over by a train. >> >>Thanks so very much for arousing my curiousity >> >>:) >> >>Lee >> >>At 10:40 PM 10/1/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>Hello Lee >>> >>>Lee Markland wrote: >>> >>>snip >>> >>>> if a person truly understood what it is they are talking >>>> about, they could explain it in plain language understandable to a >>>> student in the 6th grade. ... no appeal to jargon or authority. >>> >>>snip >>> >>>I have been following your queries for some time. >>> >>>The approach I like best is everything is a puzzle, the >>>universe, >>>ourselves, our place in it, and the best part is that >>>we get to >>>play with the puzzle all the time! >>> >>>One of the coolest puzzlemasters was the physicist >>>Richard P. Feynman. >>> >>>I really enjoy the way he describes science as he is a >>>wonderful >>>storyteller. >>> >>>Some good clear discussions of science by Feynman are: >>>The Character of Physical Law, ISBN 0 262 56003 8 >>>Six Easy Pieces, ISBN 0 201 40955 0 >>>QED, The Strange Theory of Light and Matter, ISBN 0 691 >>>02417 0 >>> >>>The neat thing about Feynman is he shows how things are >>>related, >>>and how our everyday observations can be useful and yet >>>a hindrance >>>if we cling to them when we experience anomalies >>> >>>Your example of determining the weight of the moon is >>>good. I will >>>tell you I don't know then by comparison try to >>>determine some information with something I am familiar >>>with. >>> >>>Example: >>>1 the moon looks round to me >>>2 is the earth round too? >>>3 maybe if I measure shadows at different >>> locations on the earth I can determine that >>>4 OK I get some idea that the earth is round >>>5 While doing all this measuring I notice that >>> a sphere of glass can project an image of an >>> object on a paper >>>6 I also notice that the image size is related >>> to the object size and the glass sphere all >>> by simple geometry >>>7 Using this relationship I come up with a ratio >>> of the sphere of the earth to the sphere of the >>> moon. >>>8 Now I can not get to the moon but as a >>> guesstimate a sphere of sand that weighs a pound >>> on earth takes up so much space, so >>> I will use X sand as earth and Y sand as moon >>>9 Now I will look to see if I can learn anything >>> from this guess >>>10 On and On we puzzle along and we need to be honest >>> with ourselves if the pieces do not fit and be >>> perceptive to what comes our way. >>> >>>Enjoy the journey >>> >>>Jim >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 01:06:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA03717; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 01:04:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 01:04:57 -0700 Message-ID: <36158FC6.37AA@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 19:45:26 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge References: <3.0.5.32.19981001005344.009ef7d0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980929074650.008663b0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980930181542.00847e00@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980929022404.00869e30@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980930131134.0083c280@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928154911.00863760@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980929092038.00934350@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928040605.00863770@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19981001065045.00a10320@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tz2-k2.0.tv.ea85s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6738 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > > Unfortunately in human affairs, one persons understanding is not another > > persons understanding, so misconceptions arise and even arguments. > ...................... (snip) > ..........there isn't anything that can't be explained in clear precise > language understandable to a student in the 6th grade. > Yes. And I 'think' I agree with that. But this IS a SERIOUS question ..( just to make you think a little..:-) Can you _PLEASE_ _PLEASE_ put me out of my misery and tell me exactly what a "6th grade" student is ???? Is it a child in Standard Six, Form Six, Grade six .... or what?? ....:-) What age? ....6, 8, 10, 15, 18, years old ..... what ??? Someone on this list (from the UK I think) also asked this question, and I never saw any explanatory reply. Please remember there are: Different countries, different people. Different cultures, different understandings. Different perceptions, ......... (AND different education systems......) The world is round, not flat..... and perhaps a little larger, and maybe just a little more diverse than some might think.....:-) Take Care, In Kindness, Stuart From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 01:59:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA18371; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 01:57:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 01:57:12 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 04:57:57 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: "Exploring Tesla"...The LMD/TEM Experiment Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Resent-Message-ID: <"STm6f1.0.yU4.dL95s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6739 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have just created a new topics in my web site "Exploring Tesla", the first experiment that you could find is about the use Longitudinal Magneto- Dielectric waves (LMD) Vs the Transverse ElectroMagnetic waves (TEM). This experiment is based on the video "Transverse & Longitudinal Electricity" from the Borderland (BSRF). This experiment shows clearly the difference between Longitudinal and Transverse waves coming from two copper wires. These Longitudinal Magneto- Dielectric waves (LMD) have been used by Tesla in his Tesla coil and also his Magnifying transmitter. In the Tesla's Magifying transmitter, the energy is countinuously bounced back and forth between the earth and the reflecting capacitance at a rate timed to a natural rate of the earth..... You will find the LMD/TEM experiment at : http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/lmdtem.htm Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin (France) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 02:42:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA25138; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 02:41:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 02:41:29 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980930080227.00865b10@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:02:27 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <36158FC6.37AA@mlb.planet.gen.nz> References: <3.0.5.32.19981001005344.009ef7d0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980929074650.008663b0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980930181542.00847e00@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980929022404.00869e30@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980930131134.0083c280@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928154911.00863760@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980929092038.00934350@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928040605.00863770@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19981001065045.00a10320@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"mIgjm2.0.i86.9_95s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6740 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:45 PM 10/2/98 -0700, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: > >> >> Unfortunately in human affairs, one persons understanding is not another > >> persons understanding, so misconceptions arise and even arguments. >> ...................... (snip) >> ..........there isn't anything that can't be explained in clear precise >> language understandable to a student in the 6th grade. >> > >Yes. And I 'think' I agree with that. > >But this IS a SERIOUS question ..( just to make you think a little..:-) > >Can you _PLEASE_ _PLEASE_ put me out of my misery and tell me exactly what >a "6th grade" student is ???? > >Is it a child in Standard Six, Form Six, Grade six .... or what?? ....:-) >Stuart 12 years of age. In the US the final year of what is called Primary education. Ages 5 torough 12 years. In earlier times it was seen that by age 12 students who continued should be offered a more advanced study. as they had reached the age of reason as it was called. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 03:30:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA31280; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 03:29:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 03:29:01 -0700 Message-ID: <3614ABC1.46034452@GroupZ.net> Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 06:32:34 -0400 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" , KeelyNet , "USA-TESLA@list.iex.net" , "vortex-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Question on magnetic star (off topic) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YPn_n.0.Xe7.ihA5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6741 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Was wondering about the x-rays and gamma rays from the magnetic star that arrived 27 Sep....I assume that they were traveling at speed of light, are there any other particles that may have been emitted by this burst, that may arrive at a later time ??? If so, is there any chance that they could reach the earths surface, I understand that the x-rays and gamma rays were absorbed by the atmosphere....thanks...steve opelc From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 05:15:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA17760; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 05:13:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 05:13:18 -0700 Message-ID: <3614D07C.DAB8A5EB@harti.com> Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 14:09:16 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , freenrg-l , Evan Soule Subject: Re: 2 coil experiment conclusion... References: <000301bdebc6$c5a1a900$7259bfa8@powermrkt.inc> <36126A7C.1CCE@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <9809292035.ZM20645@gibbs.eng.ohio-state.edu> <3613B7FB.287A@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <9810011020.ZM24888@gibbs.eng.ohio-state.edu> <36154DB0.299E@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TeCut2.0.LL4.UDC5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6742 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ...snip.... > > > > The only explanation I have is if the source resistance is greater > > than the coil resistance. Then, the magnetic field strength should > > increase linearly with the number of turns. A large source resistance > > could develop if many batteries are connected in series. > > > > It would be interesting to know what type, capacity, voltage and > configuration the source was, so as to estimate its internal resistance. > > Regards, > > Stuart > > The most easy real conclusion is: You can get out of a good designed electromagnet (speak: Newman coil) a bigger Force x distance energy product, than it needs to put in electrical energy into the coil ! (The coil in this case acts as a "low power switchable permanent magnet" !) Also: the won mechanical energy can be bigger than the electrical energy needed to put into the coil as it is normally W= 0.5Li^2 This is the most imnportant message, that comes not through in Newman´s video, I bet, but I have simulated this in Quickfield magneto simulation software and it can be true, if you use a huge coil attracting a strong permanent magnet! There the force over a distance of a few cm is bigger than the energy needed to put into the coil ! Thus the mechanical energy output is bigger than the total electrical input energy ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 08:13:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA17230; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 08:09:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 08:09:40 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19981002151053.006c6ccc@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 11:10:53 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Hydrogen guy Resent-Message-ID: <"nG16N2.0.-C4.poE5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6743 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey Knute With all your experience with hydrogen what is your opinion on the Joe cell? Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 10:48:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA30677; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:44:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:44:23 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: sepp@lastrega.com (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery Message-Id: <98Oct2.134417-0400_edt.34532410-10203+4@hugin.request.net> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 13:38:10 -0400 Resent-Message-ID: <"3RKyr1.0.8V7.s3H5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6744 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland writes: > >I have a question though as regards this statement of yours" > >"This force provides patterns of energy which >"materialise" parts of the medium that fills space, coagulating it into >what we perceive to be particles of matter."" > >Wouldn't these patterns of energy which "materialize" parts of the medium >that fills space, introduce drag, friction, resistance to planets, moons, >asteroids and space ships? I don't think they would, in a similar way the electron beam in the tv set does not induce friction on the pictures we see moving on the screen. The analogy holds very closely, and I see matter not as anything substantial but a passing materialisation dependent on the energy pattern. Where the pattern moves to, the matter moves to, or vice versa if we want, if the pattern is in motion relative to the ether at it's position, it will be 'manufacturing' new particles of matter at a constant rate. No friction involved at all. > >I don't buy into that time reversal stuff, or wormholes either, but I'm not >going to revisit my argument as to why not. > >As regards the disappearance and reappearance of particles. I sure wish I >had access to those experiments and could ask plain questions and receive >plain language answers to those questions. Meanwhile I'm stuck with either >rejecting the results or the explanation for the results out of hand, or >kow towing to authority and believing everything I'm told. You are right on this one. It is very hard to get actual data on what exactly was done and what exactly was observed. > (extensive snip) Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY new e-mail address: sepp@lastrega.com homepage at http://www.lastrega.com/Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 12:03:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA08739; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 12:00:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 12:00:10 -0700 Message-ID: <36152FD3.89DD95DD@harti.com> Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 20:56:03 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , freenrg-l Subject: Re: 2 coil experiment conclusion... References: <01BDEE0C.793B7580.jwrinkle@utdallas.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IcvSY.0.R82.vAI5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6745 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jason Wrinkle wrote: > > what is this quickfield magneto simulation software you keep referring to; it sounds interesting. > It is an easy to use Magnet and electrical simulation program for PCs. Have a look at their homepage at: http://www2.tera-analysis.com/tera/ Regards, Stefan. > -----Original Message----- > From: Stefan Hartmann [SMTP:harti@harti.com] > Sent: Friday, October 02, 1998 8:09 AM > To: Newman-L Mailing List > Subject: Re: 2 coil experiment conclusion... > > Also: the won mechanical energy can be bigger than the electrical energy > needed to put into the coil as it is normally W= 0.5Li^2 > This is the most imnportant message, that comes not through in Newman´s > video, I bet, but I have simulated this in Quickfield magneto > simulation software > and it can be true, if you use a huge coil attracting a strong permanent > magnet! > There the force over a distance of a few cm is bigger than the energy > needed to put into the coil ! > Thus the mechanical energy output is bigger than the total electrical > input energy ! > > Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 14:08:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA29676; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 14:04:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 14:04:33 -0700 Message-ID: <3616473A.597D@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 08:48:10 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge References: <3.0.5.32.19981001005344.009ef7d0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980929074650.008663b0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980930181542.00847e00@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980929022404.00869e30@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980930131134.0083c280@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928154911.00863760@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980929092038.00934350@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928040605.00863770@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19981001065045.00a10320@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980930080227.00865b10@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3LsLV2.0.WF7.V_J5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6746 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: trknute@earthlink.net wrote: > > 12 years of age. In the US the final year of what is called Primary > education. > > Ages 5 torough 12 years. In earlier times it was seen that by age 12 > students who continued should be offered a more advanced study. as they had > reached the age of reason as it was called. Thank you very much TRK. Now it makes sense. Regards, Stuart -- ============================= S. N. Rae,, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 14:36:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA12389; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 14:32:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 14:32:14 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981002014106.00a04660@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 01:41:06 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <199810020540.BAA26030@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"gS_Iz2.0.J13.RPK5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6747 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I don't think so, but evidently the current narrative does. It is because of that, that prior to the launch of the Apollo Missions, it was theorized that 1. The Moon was concave on the dark side 2. The Moon was full of holes (the origin of the Moon is made of cheese jokes and cartons). Now to explain this, the current narrative is trying to come up with a theory that the moon is made up of only the lighter elements skimmed off the surface of the Earth in some far distant impact with an asteroid. This ignores the law of the centrifuge that would have placed the heavier elements at the Earth's upper layers (e.g. Lithosphere and Upper Mantle). Newton's Law states, in the Principia, that Mass is made up of little corpuscles of matter, evenly distributed throughout and attracted to each other. Newton had his own unified theory, he was a corpuscularean, calling on the theories of the Ancient Greeks, and believed that everything, light included, was made up of little corpuscles of matter (atoms). Most are familiar with the equation F=ma or Force=mass times acceleration. On Earth, the value for m (mass) is the weight of the object. But one can't weigh the moon or the Earth, so the current narrative assumes the correctness of Newton's corpuscularean theory, and uses the known and observable inverse square law, as well as the recorded rate of fall of objects on Earth (32.2 ft per second^2), resorts to the well documented observations of the orbit of the moon, observation of the orbits of asteroids and the Earth's polar axis. Thus armed with the verified and verifiable inverse square law. The recorded and observed rate of fall of objects on Earth (32.2 ft per second^2). The observations of the moons orbit and the motion of asteroids. Physicists and astronomers then assumed that they could obtain a value for the mass of the moon, by deriving backwards from their calculations, a value for the mass of the moon, and from that, a constant for Gravity. (6.673e-11 N m^2/kg^2 (7e-11) -- Newton's Gravitational Constant "G" ) This constant, of course is not Newton's at all. Newton went to his death, with his friend Edmund Halley, trying to prove the mass of the moon using the inverse square law. No matter what Halley did, the Moon just had too much Mass and should have long fallen to the Earth. Newton's successors (The Royal Academy of Science, then abetting the Crown in establishment of the Hegemony of the British Empire over all things) decided that they didn't have to prove the mass of the moon, because the inverse square law had already been proven. All they had to do was use the inverse square law and the recorded orbital history of the Moon, to determine its mass. The value derived, of course, was much less than the volume of the moon, leading to the theories about the concavity of the moon or the moon being full of holes. A friend of mine dug out some really old physics books, pre Apollo stuff, and discovered an interesting discrepancy between the old values given for the Mass of the Moon and the current value given for the Mass of the Moon (.0129em). The situation gets more interesting when seismological surveys of the Earth's interior and estimates of its composition are taken into account. According to Newtonian physics, the Earth requires a mass of 5.5 g cm^-3. "Except for the ocean and the crust, direct measurements of the density of the inner layers of the Earth are not available. The currently accepted Earth Model is inconsistent with the law of the centrifuge. The Earth has been rotating for some 4.5 billion years. When it was first formed, the Earth was in a molten state and was rotating faster than today. The highest density of matter should have migrated to the outer layers. Except for the inner core, which houses the engine, powered by a nuclear reaction and which keeps our planet rotating, the density of the the outer layers of the Earth should be less than 3 g cm^-3. Also heavy metals are rare in the universe. How could so much of materials with such low stellar abundances have concentrated in the Earth's interior?" (Page 119, Gravitational Force of the Sun, Pari Spolter, Orb Publishing). Pari is referring to the current estimates of an inner core and outer core of great density (13.09 - 12.58 g cm^-3). As can be seen - all values assigned, from the Universal constant of G, to estimates of the moons mass and the estimates of the Earths core, are derivatives based on an assumption. The assumption being that matter is made up of little corpuscles, evenly distributed throughout and each attracted to each other. That is Mass is caused by gravity and gravity is caused by mass. Taking this assumption, they then took the verified rate of fall of objects on Earth, the inverse square law and the observed orbit of the moon and asteroids and mathematically derived, via backward calculations (solving for X), the Mass of the moon. With that figure in hand they then solved for another X, the Universal gravitational constant. With the universal gravitational constant in hand, they then have no problem in mathematically assigning a value to other planets and moons. All done on a chalkboard, safe from any attempt to verify and prove - until we launched the man on the moon missions and discovered that the neutral point was between 43,495 miles and 38,900 miles from the moon (depending on the Earth - moon distance) and not the 24,000 miles that Newtons Me/Mm equation would render. I suggest that if one considers orbital mechanics as a relationship between two factors, the actual gravitational pull of the two objects (e.g. Earth and moon or Earth and Sun) and the weight of the orbiting object (even though we can't weigh it). Then one will have a better understanding of the nature of gravity. In this regard it appears that the moon has a gravitational pull of roughly .6145 that of Earth and a volume of .02 that of Earth. .6145 times .02 = .01229 or the Estimates of the moons mass. This figure of .6145 comes from calculating, using soley the inverse square law, the gravitational pull of the moon starting with an average distance of 250,000 miles from the Earth and a neutral point of roughly 40,000 miles (average). There are other implications in this. And perhaps born out by the fact that the Air Force (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency - DARPA) took over the development of the Lunar Module (LM), and indeed on one mission, a scant few yards from touch down, the LM, had to make an immediate lateral move, to avoid landing on a boulder. Pretty good trick at a few yards with nothing but retrorockets firing. Lee At 05:48 PM 10/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >.013 is 66% of the .02 figure. Is that permissable? > >---------- >> From: Lee Markland >> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge >> Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 1:55 PM >> >> 13 thousands what? Permissible? >> >> Lee >> >> At 05:26 PM 10/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >> >13 thousandths might be permissable. >> > >> >---------- >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 15:43:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA06384; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:39:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:39:01 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981002051917.00a1c950@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 05:19:17 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery In-Reply-To: <98Oct2.134417-0400_edt.34532410-10203+4@hugin.request.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZApmA2.0.bZ1.4OL5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6748 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:38 PM 10/2/98 -0400, you wrote: >Lee Markland writes: >> >>I have a question though as regards this statement of yours" >> >>"This force provides patterns of energy which >>"materialise" parts of the medium that fills space, coagulating it into >>what we perceive to be particles of matter."" >> >>Wouldn't these patterns of energy which "materialize" parts of the medium >>that fills space, introduce drag, friction, resistance to planets, moons, >>asteroids and space ships? > >I don't think they would, in a similar way the electron beam in the tv set >does not induce friction on the pictures we see moving on the screen. The >analogy holds very closely, and I see matter not as anything substantial >but a passing materialisation dependent on the energy pattern. Where the >pattern moves to, the matter moves to, or vice versa if we want, if the >pattern is in motion relative to the ether at it's position, it will be >'manufacturing' new particles of matter at a constant rate. No friction >involved at all. The key word in your statement is moving. The electron beam in the TV is in motion, from its source. Thus anything else, this energy pool so to speak, would also be in motion from its source, and hence there would and should be a source - the sun? All is Motion, the incomprehensible, Dewey Larson. I have three of his books. >> >>I don't buy into that time reversal stuff, or wormholes either, but I'm not >>going to revisit my argument as to why not. >> >>As regards the disappearance and reappearance of particles. I sure wish I >>had access to those experiments and could ask plain questions and receive >>plain language answers to those questions. Meanwhile I'm stuck with either >>rejecting the results or the explanation for the results out of hand, or >>kow towing to authority and believing everything I'm told. > >You are right on this one. It is very hard to get actual data on what >exactly was done and what exactly was observed. And that is the problem. The rest of the world is left with taking the word of physicists who have a vest interest in producing outcomes, or something, from the millions of dollars sunk into their toys. Lee > >> >(extensive snip) > >Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY >new e-mail address: sepp@lastrega.com >homepage at http://www.lastrega.com/Hasslberger > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 15:45:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA08528; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:44:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:44:00 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980930192839.008673e0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:28:39 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981001115528.00a14980@rockisland.com> References: <199810020519.BAA05618@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"TyMOk3.0.952.lSL5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6749 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Lee Electrolyses has been around for more than a Century and a half. Faraday, 1833 to be exact. Off the top of my head I can not remember the mans name, but a contemporary of Faraday, then went on to show that you can recover electricity from the gasses hydrogen and oxygen, 1840 or so. In essence this presents itself as a closed loop energy system. Until our work, this is where the research stayed, the recombining of gasses to produce electricity is the foundation of Fuel Cell technology. Fuel cell technology, was further developed in the 50s and 60s to provide reliable DC power for spacecraft. The nice part of this process it that after the electricity is recovered the gasses recombine to form pure water. If you look at Fuel cell, as a source of power of spacecraft, you get two benefits, electricity and clean water, from stored liquid hydrogen and oxygen. All of science has looked for a medium of exchange in energy. This quest if you will, is central to Einstein's work to discover what is known as, the grand unified field theory. For more than a century scientists have felt that there must be some universality to energy, in that you can convert back and forth in manifest forms. Like with inertia, or "Kinetic" energy. Take your car going down the road at high speed, slam on the breaks and the tires get hot enough to smoke. Inertia converted to heat! Electricity seems to posses the most convertibility. Inertia or more generally "mechanical" to drive a conductor ( a coil) in a field. Then all sorts of things can come from this, light, heat, mechanical, radio, even radioactive, in that the common x-ray tube is an electrical device. This general convertibility of all forms of manifest energy is what led them to look for a medium of exchange, a potential energy that all energies had in common. Nature has been doing this conversion forever. Through photosynthesis, Chloroplasts, the cells in plants that convert light energy, take water and divide it by bonding Hydrogen to carbon. The excess oxygen they give up to the air, enriching our atmosphere. The carbon they get from carbon-dioxide, direct from the atmosphere, a result of volcanism in the earth's core. You have heard of us, "Humans" described as "carbon based life forms"? Well, carbon may be the building block of all life, but surly hydrogen is the "cement" then in this analogy. The plants busily convert water into what are called "Sacarides", basically sugars, but they do not stop there. They continue on to build themselves out of this stuff by using oxygen, once again to form linking chains, that the fiber and tubular structures that stalks and leaves are made of. This linking is made by the Hydroxyl bond. Hence the name for the gas that I speak of, Hydroxy. The structure of sugar and starch are similar and can loosely be described as simple and complex, carbo-hydrates. There are those words again "Carbo" or carbon, and Hydro or hydrogen. These Carbohydrates are what we use to gain energy for our life sustaining force. If we eat meat we are still using this energy, just second hand, as stored in the protein structures of the meat. This protein structure is called a Polypeptide bond, also hydroxyl in nature. So you and all lining animal life are dependent on Hydroxy for the stuff that makes you. Now, it does not end there. You are no reading these words, and your mind is using electricity in a way that allows for though. This is a highly developed electrical process. We know much about this, but we may still have a wonderment as to where the little electrical generator is that generates all those little sparks in our brains. Well guess what? It turns out that the sugar, remember, bonded carbon and hydrogen, is once again very important in this process. In our brain cells, there are little chambers that allow for a controlled reaction of the hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen for this reaction comes from the sugar, and the oxygen comes from the air we breath. Now remember, the air was enriched with the oxygen left over when plants made sugars from carbon by breaking down water, and also to make their stalks, seeds, and leaves. We, breath in this oxygen, and it is transferred to our blood. The blood then carries the oxygen to the cells. Our brain cells, then use hydrogen and oxygen to make the electricity that fires the circuitry of our brain. This also is similar to the functioning of our muscles. The result is the tell tail of the reaction, that being pure water and a discharge of extra oxygen and carbon, in the form of carbon dioxide, the main gas, we breath out. And wouldn't you know it, that is exactly what the trees and plants need to start the process all over again. So, now for review. All energy in the world of living things is dependent on hydrogen and oxygen. Carbon is used to separate these materials, Hydrogen and oxygen, when charged with energy and to form the building blocks for all living structures. Hydroxyl bonds, help in forming the more complex structures of proteins. Proteins are the most primitive structure of all life, which are in essence, Hydroxyl bonds of carbon. Electricity, that is needed to order and facilitate thought, is a result of a hydroxyl reaction. So the energy of all life is dependent on the manipulation of two elements, hydrogen and oxygen. The study of a specific ratio of these elements then is of value not only as a study of energy, but as well as the study of all life. To learn the nature of energy and how it can be used, stored and converted, is a significant part of science. The discovery, testing, evaluating, measuring and capturing of this life force energy is then of value to all of science. But as a battery, I think that is only one aspect of this research, but yes, a battery like thing. But I may draw another analogy as to why I have some problem with just looking at this, Hydroxy technology, as only a battery thing. In the more, broad context, a tree could be looked upon as a battery thing, in that it captures and holds energy, that we can regain as heat and light, as we burn logs in a fireplace on cold withers nights. I also have great reluctance to identify Hydroxy only in biologic terms, as it is the mechanical sciences that I feel will most benefit. I do not also want to classify it as a providenceof only a practical science technology, because it redefines many of the perimeters here to held as absolute by theoretic physics. But I hope now that you might see that I was not being vague, but rather looking for you to formulate a more appropriate question. Best regards. TR Knudtson At 11:55 AM 10/1/98 -0700, you wrote: >13 thousands what? Permissible? > >Lee > >At 05:26 PM 10/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >>13 thousandths might be permissable. >> >>---------- >>> From: Lee Markland >>> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>> Subject: Wisdom and knowledge >>> Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 8:15 PM >>> >>> I mentioned this once before. But a very astute and credential scientist >>> once told me that if a person truly understood what it is they are >>talking >>> about, they could explain it in plain language understandable to a >>student >>> in the 6th grade. Meaning no appeal to jargon or authority. >>> >>> So I immediately asked him for a plain language explanation of the >>> methodology used by astronomers and physicists to obtain the value that >>is >>> given for the mass of the moon (.0129 that of Earth). >>> >>> Would you believe that he couldn't do such a simple thing. >>> >>> So I had to do volumes of research to come up with my own answer. >>> >>> I've thrown the question to a number of self styled experts, only to be >>met >>> with evasions, attempts at changing the subject, (including making me the >>> subject). I've received two answers both of them incomprehensible to a >>6th >>> grader. One of them outrageously long, telling me to tell the students >>how >>> much of a genius Newton was, and then later telling me to lie to them, so >>> as not to confuse them. >>> >>> I even had a noted astronomer admit that he lies to first year physics >>> students "for their own good", so as not to confuse them. >>> >>> It's really simple though, two paragraphs, three at most, and the >>> embarassing thing (at least embarassing if one has integrityand is >>> perceptive) is that the word assumption has to be used a number of times. >>> >>> I don't think, however, that I would like to spring it on a 6th grader, >>for >>> they are still perceptive enough at that age, to notice flaws and ask >>> embarrassing questions, which can only be answered by calling on >>authority >>> or telling them to do some research, or the coup de grace - attempt to >>> embarass them in public, by denigration and innuendo. >>> >>> Lee >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 16:14:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA20252; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:09:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:09:16 -0700 Message-ID: <36155D36.71F8BC08@dcache.net> Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 19:09:42 -0400 From: James J Jiamachello X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge References: <3.0.5.32.19981001005344.009ef7d0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980929074650.008663b0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980930181542.00847e00@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980929022404.00869e30@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980930131134.0083c280@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928154911.00863760@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980929092038.00934350@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928040605.00863770@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19981001065045.00a10320@rockisland.com> <36158FC6.37AA@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4LytS3.0.My4.SqL5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6750 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Stuart Stuart Rae wrote: snip > > Can you _PLEASE_ _PLEASE_ put me out of my misery and tell me exactly what > a "6th grade" student is ???? > in the United States of America public schooling starts at age 5 in Kindergarten. This used to be a 1/2 day with a full day starting in First grade at age 6. You can then add 6 to the grade to get the child's nominal age. The First through Eight grades were called School and the Ninth through Twelfth grades were called High School. But in the age of specialization it is common to have grades K to 5 as an Elementary school, in its own building; grades 6 to 8 as a Junior High school in its own building and still have a separate High School. It is also quite common to keep the boys back a year usually in the hope that their performance in the treadmill will be better. When students go to high school a choice has to be made if they will study for college, or pursue a trade. If they pursue a trade then 11 and 12 are spent in trade school. The further education options are community colleges for Associate (two year degree) used for a better job in business or as a technician, a Bachelor (four year degree) various areas of study as liberal arts or the sciences. Graduate degree are two more years for a Masters and then another two for a Doctorate maybe sooner if you plan it correctly. This excludes the Medical Schools as from the Bachelor you go straight to Four years of Medical school then an Internship and you have to pass state certification. Law school is also four years and requires state certification. There are also various special schools, Day care for infants and toddlers, Pre-School for 2 to 4 years old, Montessori for infant to elementary age, Military Academies usually a range of grades 7 to 12, and Boarding schools could have all ages. There are private and various church run schools too. Education is big bucks in USA. That is why home schooling can be a bureaucratic hassle for parents. Ah School Daze Jim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 16:59:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA04567; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:57:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:57:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981003092830.0083d2e0@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 09:28:30 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: The Solaris Mail List is finally UP Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"lHuzr1.0.E71.mXM5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6751 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi! ALL I suppose The world is not in need of a another free energy mailing and discussion group with excellent groups of Freenry and Keeely net groups but Solaris has promised one for some time now and I have finally got around to putting up one. The news group will be unmoderated ( a danger in itself but I do not believe in censorship ) and will be including on areas of interest as per my solaris website. so if you would like to be included you can sign up at http://energy21.listbot.com Geoff Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 17:02:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA06297; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:59:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:59:52 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981003093044.00842a00@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 09:30:44 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Solaris Mailing and Discussion Newsgroup Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"FCYSv1.0.CY1.tZM5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6752 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi! ALL I suppose The world is not in need of a another free energy mailing and discussion group with excellent groups of Freenry and Keeely net groups but Solaris has promised one for some time now and I have finally got around to putting up one. The news group will be unmoderated ( a danger in itself but I do not believe in censorship ) and will be including on areas of interest as per my solaris website. so if you would like to be included you can sign up at http://energy21.listbot.com Geoff Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 17:35:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA16632; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 17:32:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 17:32:25 -0700 Message-ID: <36167683.467B@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 12:09:55 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge References: <3.0.5.32.19981001005344.009ef7d0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980929074650.008663b0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980930181542.00847e00@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980929022404.00869e30@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980930131134.0083c280@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928154911.00863760@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980929092038.00934350@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928040605.00863770@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19981001065045.00a10320@rockisland.com> <36158FC6.37AA@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <36155D36.71F8BC08@dcache.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JiE-i1.0.534.D2N5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6754 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: James J Jiamachello wrote: > > in the United States of America public schooling starts > at age 5 in Kindergarten. ......... > BIG SNIP Thank you James for your detailed and interesting reply. Sincerely, Stuart -- ============================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 17:35:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA16123; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 17:29:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 17:29:54 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19960110071128.00a0d2b0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 07:11:28 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980930192839.008673e0@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19981001115528.00a14980@rockisland.com> <199810020519.BAA05618@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"2zJhx3.0.ox3.y_M5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6753 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thank you very much for contributing so eloquently to my education. Great job, by the way. This one is a keeper (i'll save it in text format). You should be a teacher, are you? I do understand some of this and am familiar with the principle of Hydoxy, at least as regards Browns Gas. But this is wonderful stuff. I understand that energy is stored in matter, like plant food, and minerals and that it can be converted through some action, like a catalyst, to energy. And that all matter is merely "bound" energy (does that sound correct?) It is just that when I get into that region known as space, where there "appears" to be nothing more than a void, except for the lines of force like gravity and "other" EM transmission, that I enounter a difficulty with "stored" energy or a medium, like a sugar cube or a pool of oil. However space is definitely, not empty, since as you and others have pointed out there is a tremendous amount of energy constantly transitting space (and our own bodies, and the planet itself). The question then seems to me, the ability to tap this transient energy and convert it into a form that we can use. I guess that kind of makes the term free energy, an oxymoron (not my intention). I would wonder if there is a region in our galaxy or any galaxy in which there is no energy, transiting - a void in other words. When I look in the sky I see little spots of light. Light emitted from far off stars, and although much diminished by their expansion from the source, these little points of light represent little points of energy. Which it seems would have the possibility, given the knowledge and tools, to be captured, used and converted to a useable form. Much like radio frequencies can be used to open car doors, garage doors or guide airplanes. But it seems there are no "pools" of static or stagnant energy just lying around. Instead this energy is in constant motion, moving from its source and expanding outwards in a sphere and diminishing in strength as it does so. Does that make sense? :) Thanks very much for your time and kind explanation, as I said this is a keeper. Lee At 07:28 PM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote: >Dear Lee > >Electrolyses has been around for more than a Century and a half. Faraday, >1833 to be exact. Off the top of my head I can not remember the mans name, >but a contemporary of Faraday, then went on to show that you can recover >electricity from the gasses hydrogen and oxygen, 1840 or so. In essence >this presents itself as a closed loop energy system. Until our work, this >is where the research stayed, the recombining of gasses to produce >electricity is the foundation of Fuel Cell technology. Fuel cell >technology, was further developed in the 50s and 60s to provide reliable DC >power for spacecraft. The nice part of this process it that after the >electricity is recovered the gasses recombine to form pure water. If you >look at Fuel cell, as a source of power of spacecraft, you get two >benefits, electricity and clean water, from stored liquid hydrogen and oxygen. > >All of science has looked for a medium of exchange in energy. This quest if >you will, is central to Einstein's work to discover what is known as, the >grand unified field theory. For more than a century scientists have felt >that there must be some universality to energy, in that you can convert >back and forth in manifest forms. Like with inertia, or "Kinetic" energy. >Take your car going down the road at high speed, slam on the breaks and the >tires get hot enough to smoke. Inertia converted to heat! Electricity >seems to posses the most convertibility. Inertia or more generally >"mechanical" to drive a conductor ( a coil) in a field. Then all sorts of >things can come from this, light, heat, mechanical, radio, even >radioactive, in that the common x-ray tube is an electrical device. This >general convertibility of all forms of manifest energy is what led them to >look for a medium of exchange, a potential energy that all energies had in >common. > >Nature has been doing this conversion forever. Through photosynthesis, >Chloroplasts, the cells in plants that convert light energy, take water and >divide it by bonding Hydrogen to carbon. The excess oxygen they give up to >the air, enriching our atmosphere. The carbon they get from >carbon-dioxide, direct from the atmosphere, a result of volcanism in the >earth's core. > >You have heard of us, "Humans" described as "carbon based life forms"? >Well, carbon may be the building block of all life, but surly hydrogen is >the "cement" then in this analogy. The plants busily convert water into >what are called "Sacarides", basically sugars, but they do not stop there. >They continue on to build themselves out of this stuff by using oxygen, >once again to form linking chains, that the fiber and tubular structures >that stalks and leaves are made of. This linking is made by the Hydroxyl >bond. Hence the name for the gas that I speak of, Hydroxy. > >The structure of sugar and starch are similar and can loosely be described >as simple and complex, carbo-hydrates. There are those words again "Carbo" >or carbon, and Hydro or hydrogen. These Carbohydrates are what we use to >gain energy for our life sustaining force. If we eat meat we are still >using this energy, just second hand, as stored in the protein structures of >the meat. This protein structure is called a Polypeptide bond, also >hydroxyl in nature. So you and all lining animal life are dependent on >Hydroxy for the stuff that makes you. Now, it does not end there. > >You are no reading these words, and your mind is using electricity in a way >that allows for though. This is a highly developed electrical process. We >know much about this, but we may still have a wonderment as to where the >little electrical generator is that generates all those little sparks in >our brains. Well guess what? It turns out that the sugar, remember, bonded >carbon and hydrogen, is once again very important in this process. In our >brain cells, there are little chambers that allow for a controlled reaction >of the hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen for this reaction comes from the >sugar, and the oxygen comes from the air we breath. > >Now remember, the air was enriched with the oxygen left over when plants >made sugars from carbon by breaking down water, and also to make their >stalks, seeds, and leaves. We, breath in this oxygen, and it is >transferred to our blood. The blood then carries the oxygen to the cells. > >Our brain cells, then use hydrogen and oxygen to make the electricity that >fires the circuitry of our brain. This also is similar to the functioning >of our muscles. The result is the tell tail of the reaction, that being >pure water and a discharge of extra oxygen and carbon, in the form of >carbon dioxide, the main gas, we breath out. And wouldn't you know it, >that is exactly what the trees and plants need to start the process all >over again. > >So, now for review. > >All energy in the world of living things is dependent on hydrogen and >oxygen. > >Carbon is used to separate these materials, Hydrogen and oxygen, when >charged with energy and to form the building blocks for all living >structures. > >Hydroxyl bonds, help in forming the more complex structures of proteins. > >Proteins are the most primitive structure of all life, which are in >essence, Hydroxyl bonds of carbon. > >Electricity, that is needed to order and facilitate thought, is a result of >a hydroxyl reaction. > >So the energy of all life is dependent on the manipulation of two elements, >hydrogen and oxygen. > >The study of a specific ratio of these elements then is of value not only >as a study of energy, but as well as the study of all life. > >To learn the nature of energy and how it can be used, stored and converted, >is a significant part of science. > >The discovery, testing, evaluating, measuring and capturing of this life >force energy is then of value to all of science. > >But as a battery, I think that is only one aspect of this research, but >yes, a battery like thing. But I may draw another analogy as to why I have >some problem with just looking at this, Hydroxy technology, as only a >battery thing. In the more, broad context, a tree could be looked upon as >a battery thing, in that it captures and holds energy, that we can regain >as heat and light, as we burn logs in a fireplace on cold withers nights. > >I also have great reluctance to identify Hydroxy only in biologic terms, as >it is the mechanical sciences that I feel will most benefit. > >I do not also want to classify it as a providenceof only a practical >science technology, because it redefines many of the perimeters here to >held as absolute by theoretic physics. > >But I hope now that you might see that I was not being vague, but rather >looking for you to formulate a more appropriate question. > >Best regards. > >TR Knudtson > > > > > > >At 11:55 AM 10/1/98 -0700, you wrote: >>13 thousands what? Permissible? >> >>Lee >> >>At 05:26 PM 10/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>13 thousandths might be permissable. >>> >>>---------- >>>> From: Lee Markland >>>> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>>> Subject: Wisdom and knowledge >>>> Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 8:15 PM >>>> >>>> I mentioned this once before. But a very astute and credential scientist >>>> once told me that if a person truly understood what it is they are >>>talking >>>> about, they could explain it in plain language understandable to a >>>student >>>> in the 6th grade. Meaning no appeal to jargon or authority. >>>> >>>> So I immediately asked him for a plain language explanation of the >>>> methodology used by astronomers and physicists to obtain the value that >>>is >>>> given for the mass of the moon (.0129 that of Earth). >>>> >>>> Would you believe that he couldn't do such a simple thing. >>>> >>>> So I had to do volumes of research to come up with my own answer. >>>> >>>> I've thrown the question to a number of self styled experts, only to be >>>met >>>> with evasions, attempts at changing the subject, (including making me the >>>> subject). I've received two answers both of them incomprehensible to a >>>6th >>>> grader. One of them outrageously long, telling me to tell the students >>>how >>>> much of a genius Newton was, and then later telling me to lie to them, so >>>> as not to confuse them. >>>> >>>> I even had a noted astronomer admit that he lies to first year physics >>>> students "for their own good", so as not to confuse them. >>>> >>>> It's really simple though, two paragraphs, three at most, and the >>>> embarassing thing (at least embarassing if one has integrityand is >>>> perceptive) is that the word assumption has to be used a number of times. >>>> >>>> I don't think, however, that I would like to spring it on a 6th grader, >>>for >>>> they are still perceptive enough at that age, to notice flaws and ask >>>> embarrassing questions, which can only be answered by calling on >>>authority >>>> or telling them to do some research, or the coup de grace - attempt to >>>> embarass them in public, by denigration and innuendo. >>>> >>>> Lee >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 19:01:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA09493; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:59:37 -0700 (PDT) From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980930223808.0086d100@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:38:08 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19960110071128.00a0d2b0@rockisland.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980930192839.008673e0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981001115528.00a14980@rockisland.com> <199810020519.BAA05618@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ErbQo2.0.FK2.7KO5s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6756 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:11 AM 1/10/96 -0800, you wrote: >Thank you very much for contributing so eloquently to my education. Great >job, by the way. This one is a keeper (i'll save it in text format). You >should be a teacher, are you? > >I do understand some of this and am familiar with the principle of Hydoxy, >at least as regards Browns Gas. But this is wonderful stuff. > >I understand that energy is stored in matter, like plant food, and minerals >and that it can be converted through some action, like a catalyst, to >energy. And that all matter is merely "bound" energy (does that sound >correct?) > >It is just that when I get into that region known as space, where there >"appears" to be nothing more than a void, except for the lines of force >like gravity and "other" EM transmission, that I enounter a difficulty with >"stored" energy or a medium, like a sugar cube or a pool of oil. > >However space is definitely, not empty, since as you and others have >pointed out there is a tremendous amount of energy constantly transitting >space (and our own bodies, and the planet itself). The question then seems >to me, the ability to tap this transient energy and convert it into a form >that we can use. > >I guess that kind of makes the term free energy, an oxymoron (not my >intention). > >I would wonder if there is a region in our galaxy or any galaxy in which >there is no energy, transiting - a void in other words. > >When I look in the sky I see little spots of light. Light emitted from far >off stars, and although much diminished by their expansion from the source, >these little points of light represent little points of energy. Which it >seems would have the possibility, given the knowledge and tools, to be >captured, used and converted to a useable form. > >Much like radio frequencies can be used to open car doors, garage doors or >guide airplanes. > >But it seems there are no "pools" of static or stagnant energy just lying >around. Instead this energy is in constant motion, moving from its source >and expanding outwards in a sphere and diminishing in strength as it does so. > >Does that make sense? > >:) > >Thanks very much for your time and kind explanation, as I said this is a >keeper. > >Lee > >At 07:28 PM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Dear Lee >> >>Electrolyses has been around for more than a Century and a half. Faraday, >>1833 to be exact. Off the top of my head I can not remember the mans name, >>but a contemporary of Faraday, then went on to show that you can recover >>electricity from the gasses hydrogen and oxygen, 1840 or so. In essence >>this presents itself as a closed loop energy system. Until our work, this >>is where the research stayed, the recombining of gasses to produce >>electricity is the foundation of Fuel Cell technology. Fuel cell >>technology, was further developed in the 50s and 60s to provide reliable DC >>power for spacecraft. The nice part of this process it that after the >>electricity is recovered the gasses recombine to form pure water. If you >>look at Fuel cell, as a source of power of spacecraft, you get two >>benefits, electricity and clean water, from stored liquid hydrogen and >oxygen. >> >>All of science has looked for a medium of exchange in energy. This quest if >>you will, is central to Einstein's work to discover what is known as, the >>grand unified field theory. For more than a century scientists have felt >>that there must be some universality to energy, in that you can convert >>back and forth in manifest forms. Like with inertia, or "Kinetic" energy. >>Take your car going down the road at high speed, slam on the breaks and the >>tires get hot enough to smoke. Inertia converted to heat! Electricity >>seems to posses the most convertibility. Inertia or more generally >>"mechanical" to drive a conductor ( a coil) in a field. Then all sorts of >>things can come from this, light, heat, mechanical, radio, even >>radioactive, in that the common x-ray tube is an electrical device. This >>general convertibility of all forms of manifest energy is what led them to >>look for a medium of exchange, a potential energy that all energies had in >>common. >> >>Nature has been doing this conversion forever. Through photosynthesis, >>Chloroplasts, the cells in plants that convert light energy, take water and >>divide it by bonding Hydrogen to carbon. The excess oxygen they give up to >>the air, enriching our atmosphere. The carbon they get from >>carbon-dioxide, direct from the atmosphere, a result of volcanism in the >>earth's core. >> >>You have heard of us, "Humans" described as "carbon based life forms"? >>Well, carbon may be the building block of all life, but surly hydrogen is >>the "cement" then in this analogy. The plants busily convert water into >>what are called "Sacarides", basically sugars, but they do not stop there. >>They continue on to build themselves out of this stuff by using oxygen, >>once again to form linking chains, that the fiber and tubular structures >>that stalks and leaves are made of. This linking is made by the Hydroxyl >>bond. Hence the name for the gas that I speak of, Hydroxy. >> >>The structure of sugar and starch are similar and can loosely be described >>as simple and complex, carbo-hydrates. There are those words again "Carbo" >>or carbon, and Hydro or hydrogen. These Carbohydrates are what we use to >>gain energy for our life sustaining force. If we eat meat we are still >>using this energy, just second hand, as stored in the protein structures of >>the meat. This protein structure is called a Polypeptide bond, also >>hydroxyl in nature. So you and all lining animal life are dependent on >>Hydroxy for the stuff that makes you. Now, it does not end there. >> >>You are no reading these words, and your mind is using electricity in a way >>that allows for though. This is a highly developed electrical process. We >>know much about this, but we may still have a wonderment as to where the >>little electrical generator is that generates all those little sparks in >>our brains. Well guess what? It turns out that the sugar, remember, bonded >>carbon and hydrogen, is once again very important in this process. In our >>brain cells, there are little chambers that allow for a controlled reaction >>of the hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen for this reaction comes from the >>sugar, and the oxygen comes from the air we breath. >> >>Now remember, the air was enriched with the oxygen left over when plants >>made sugars from carbon by breaking down water, and also to make their >>stalks, seeds, and leaves. We, breath in this oxygen, and it is >>transferred to our blood. The blood then carries the oxygen to the cells. >> >>Our brain cells, then use hydrogen and oxygen to make the electricity that >>fires the circuitry of our brain. This also is similar to the functioning >>of our muscles. The result is the tell tail of the reaction, that being >>pure water and a discharge of extra oxygen and carbon, in the form of >>carbon dioxide, the main gas, we breath out. And wouldn't you know it, >>that is exactly what the trees and plants need to start the process all >>over again. >> >>So, now for review. >> >>All energy in the world of living things is dependent on hydrogen and >>oxygen. >> >>Carbon is used to separate these materials, Hydrogen and oxygen, when >>charged with energy and to form the building blocks for all living >>structures. >> >>Hydroxyl bonds, help in forming the more complex structures of proteins. >> >>Proteins are the most primitive structure of all life, which are in >>essence, Hydroxyl bonds of carbon. >> >>Electricity, that is needed to order and facilitate thought, is a result of >>a hydroxyl reaction. >> >>So the energy of all life is dependent on the manipulation of two elements, >>hydrogen and oxygen. >> >>The study of a specific ratio of these elements then is of value not only >>as a study of energy, but as well as the study of all life. >> >>To learn the nature of energy and how it can be used, stored and converted, >>is a significant part of science. >> >>The discovery, testing, evaluating, measuring and capturing of this life >>force energy is then of value to all of science. >> >>But as a battery, I think that is only one aspect of this research, but >>yes, a battery like thing. But I may draw another analogy as to why I have >>some problem with just looking at this, Hydroxy technology, as only a >>battery thing. In the more, broad context, a tree could be looked upon as >>a battery thing, in that it captures and holds energy, that we can regain >>as heat and light, as we burn logs in a fireplace on cold withers nights. >> >>I also have great reluctance to identify Hydroxy only in biologic terms, as >>it is the mechanical sciences that I feel will most benefit. >> >>I do not also want to classify it as a providenceof only a practical >>science technology, because it redefines many of the perimeters here to >>held as absolute by theoretic physics. >> >>But I hope now that you might see that I was not being vague, but rather >>looking for you to formulate a more appropriate question. >> >>Best regards. >> >>TR Knudtson >> >> >> >> >> >> >>At 11:55 AM 10/1/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>13 thousands what? Permissible? >>> >>>Lee >>> >>>At 05:26 PM 10/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>>13 thousandths might be permissable. >>>> >>>>---------- >>>>> From: Lee Markland >>>>> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>>>> Subject: Wisdom and knowledge >>>>> Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 8:15 PM >>>>> >>>>> I mentioned this once before. But a very astute and credential scientist >>>>> once told me that if a person truly understood what it is they are >>>>talking >>>>> about, they could explain it in plain language understandable to a >>>>student >>>>> in the 6th grade. Meaning no appeal to jargon or authority. >>>>> >>>>> So I immediately asked him for a plain language explanation of the >>>>> methodology used by astronomers and physicists to obtain the value that >>>>is >>>>> given for the mass of the moon (.0129 that of Earth). >>>>> >>>>> Would you believe that he couldn't do such a simple thing. >>>>> >>>>> So I had to do volumes of research to come up with my own answer. >>>>> >>>>> I've thrown the question to a number of self styled experts, only to be >>>>met >>>>> with evasions, attempts at changing the subject, (including making me the >>>>> subject). I've received two answers both of them incomprehensible to a >>>>6th >>>>> grader. One of them outrageously long, telling me to tell the students >>>>how >>>>> much of a genius Newton was, and then later telling me to lie to them, so >>>>> as not to confuse them. >>>>> >>>>> I even had a noted astronomer admit that he lies to first year physics >>>>> students "for their own good", so as not to confuse them. >>>>> >>>>> It's really simple though, two paragraphs, three at most, and the >>>>> embarassing thing (at least embarassing if one has integrityand is >>>>> perceptive) is that the word assumption has to be used a number of times. >>>>> >>>>> I don't think, however, that I would like to spring it on a 6th grader, >>>>for >>>>> they are still perceptive enough at that age, to notice flaws and ask >>>>> embarrassing questions, which can only be answered by calling on >>>>authority >>>>> or telling them to do some research, or the coup de grace - attempt to >>>>> embarass them in public, by denigration and innuendo. >>>>> >>>>> Lee >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 18:59:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA10823; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:55:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:55:12 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980930223939.00869410@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:39:39 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19960110071128.00a0d2b0@rockisland.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980930192839.008673e0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981001115528.00a14980@rockisland.com> <199810020519.BAA05618@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"YuP0Z3.0.ve2.yFO5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6755 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:11 AM 1/10/96 -0800, you wrote: Dear Lee, Maybe you and I have had some sort of personal breakthrough, so that now we can more clearly understand one another. From this point forward, let's try to be a little more compassionate with each other. Yes, I am a teacher. I have a Vocational, teaching credential in theory and practical electrical, Junior collage level. If you like what I had wrote you in our last post, I do encourage you to re-examine my other postings, as I had suggested. Not to beat a dead horse! (Smile) ref. Below. In them I open some speculation on this new state of mater and energy, Hydroxy. But also cover in simple terms, some of the existing complex issues of relativity and inertia. I do very much encourage the challenging of excepted models of the universe, but do caution, that if all is energy as some may surmise, this conversation can easily run far afield. To keep some level of decorum, we may choose to head our letters of with specifics, and as speculative points are raised, we may discipline ourselves to making a clear break in our posts, then being free to enter into conjecture and speculation. It is my hope that in this way others may find it easier to follow, and respond to specifics as well as dabble along with us in off topic summaries and or curiosities. I will do my best to always thoroughly answer and on-topic question, an open option to reserve comment on the more speculative issues. I do not mean to be so dictatorial here, but I would not allow a Willie nilly approach to learning in my class, and I feel some basic format and discipline is needed here as well. So, the format would look like this. On topic: Relevant to the last few posts. Speculative: With reference to topic. Free forum: Gee! Have you ever wondered about this, or that?????? Does this sound workable? On topic, speculative, and free forum. We could call it (OSF) format? Best TR Knudtson http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/hydroxy.html >Thank you very much for contributing so eloquently to my education. Great >job, by the way. This one is a keeper (i'll save it in text format). You >should be a teacher, are you? > >I do understand some of this and am familiar with the principle of Hydoxy, >at least as regards Browns Gas. But this is wonderful stuff. > >I understand that energy is stored in matter, like plant food, and minerals >and that it can be converted through some action, like a catalyst, to >energy. And that all matter is merely "bound" energy (does that sound >correct?) > >It is just that when I get into that region known as space, where there >"appears" to be nothing more than a void, except for the lines of force >like gravity and "other" EM transmission, that I enounter a difficulty with >"stored" energy or a medium, like a sugar cube or a pool of oil. > >However space is definitely, not empty, since as you and others have >pointed out there is a tremendous amount of energy constantly transitting >space (and our own bodies, and the planet itself). The question then seems >to me, the ability to tap this transient energy and convert it into a form >that we can use. > >I guess that kind of makes the term free energy, an oxymoron (not my >intention). > >I would wonder if there is a region in our galaxy or any galaxy in which >there is no energy, transiting - a void in other words. > >When I look in the sky I see little spots of light. Light emitted from far >off stars, and although much diminished by their expansion from the source, >these little points of light represent little points of energy. Which it >seems would have the possibility, given the knowledge and tools, to be >captured, used and converted to a useable form. > >Much like radio frequencies can be used to open car doors, garage doors or >guide airplanes. > >But it seems there are no "pools" of static or stagnant energy just lying >around. Instead this energy is in constant motion, moving from its source >and expanding outwards in a sphere and diminishing in strength as it does so. > >Does that make sense? > >:) > >Thanks very much for your time and kind explanation, as I said this is a >keeper. > >Lee > >At 07:28 PM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Dear Lee >> >>Electrolyses has been around for more than a Century and a half. Faraday, >>1833 to be exact. Off the top of my head I can not remember the mans name, >>but a contemporary of Faraday, then went on to show that you can recover >>electricity from the gasses hydrogen and oxygen, 1840 or so. In essence >>this presents itself as a closed loop energy system. Until our work, this >>is where the research stayed, the recombining of gasses to produce >>electricity is the foundation of Fuel Cell technology. Fuel cell >>technology, was further developed in the 50s and 60s to provide reliable DC >>power for spacecraft. The nice part of this process it that after the >>electricity is recovered the gasses recombine to form pure water. If you >>look at Fuel cell, as a source of power of spacecraft, you get two >>benefits, electricity and clean water, from stored liquid hydrogen and >oxygen. >> >>All of science has looked for a medium of exchange in energy. This quest if >>you will, is central to Einstein's work to discover what is known as, the >>grand unified field theory. For more than a century scientists have felt >>that there must be some universality to energy, in that you can convert >>back and forth in manifest forms. Like with inertia, or "Kinetic" energy. >>Take your car going down the road at high speed, slam on the breaks and the >>tires get hot enough to smoke. Inertia converted to heat! Electricity >>seems to posses the most convertibility. Inertia or more generally >>"mechanical" to drive a conductor ( a coil) in a field. Then all sorts of >>things can come from this, light, heat, mechanical, radio, even >>radioactive, in that the common x-ray tube is an electrical device. This >>general convertibility of all forms of manifest energy is what led them to >>look for a medium of exchange, a potential energy that all energies had in >>common. >> >>Nature has been doing this conversion forever. Through photosynthesis, >>Chloroplasts, the cells in plants that convert light energy, take water and >>divide it by bonding Hydrogen to carbon. The excess oxygen they give up to >>the air, enriching our atmosphere. The carbon they get from >>carbon-dioxide, direct from the atmosphere, a result of volcanism in the >>earth's core. >> >>You have heard of us, "Humans" described as "carbon based life forms"? >>Well, carbon may be the building block of all life, but surly hydrogen is >>the "cement" then in this analogy. The plants busily convert water into >>what are called "Sacarides", basically sugars, but they do not stop there. >>They continue on to build themselves out of this stuff by using oxygen, >>once again to form linking chains, that the fiber and tubular structures >>that stalks and leaves are made of. This linking is made by the Hydroxyl >>bond. Hence the name for the gas that I speak of, Hydroxy. >> >>The structure of sugar and starch are similar and can loosely be described >>as simple and complex, carbo-hydrates. There are those words again "Carbo" >>or carbon, and Hydro or hydrogen. These Carbohydrates are what we use to >>gain energy for our life sustaining force. If we eat meat we are still >>using this energy, just second hand, as stored in the protein structures of >>the meat. This protein structure is called a Polypeptide bond, also >>hydroxyl in nature. So you and all lining animal life are dependent on >>Hydroxy for the stuff that makes you. Now, it does not end there. >> >>You are no reading these words, and your mind is using electricity in a way >>that allows for though. This is a highly developed electrical process. We >>know much about this, but we may still have a wonderment as to where the >>little electrical generator is that generates all those little sparks in >>our brains. Well guess what? It turns out that the sugar, remember, bonded >>carbon and hydrogen, is once again very important in this process. In our >>brain cells, there are little chambers that allow for a controlled reaction >>of the hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen for this reaction comes from the >>sugar, and the oxygen comes from the air we breath. >> >>Now remember, the air was enriched with the oxygen left over when plants >>made sugars from carbon by breaking down water, and also to make their >>stalks, seeds, and leaves. We, breath in this oxygen, and it is >>transferred to our blood. The blood then carries the oxygen to the cells. >> >>Our brain cells, then use hydrogen and oxygen to make the electricity that >>fires the circuitry of our brain. This also is similar to the functioning >>of our muscles. The result is the tell tail of the reaction, that being >>pure water and a discharge of extra oxygen and carbon, in the form of >>carbon dioxide, the main gas, we breath out. And wouldn't you know it, >>that is exactly what the trees and plants need to start the process all >>over again. >> >>So, now for review. >> >>All energy in the world of living things is dependent on hydrogen and >>oxygen. >> >>Carbon is used to separate these materials, Hydrogen and oxygen, when >>charged with energy and to form the building blocks for all living >>structures. >> >>Hydroxyl bonds, help in forming the more complex structures of proteins. >> >>Proteins are the most primitive structure of all life, which are in >>essence, Hydroxyl bonds of carbon. >> >>Electricity, that is needed to order and facilitate thought, is a result of >>a hydroxyl reaction. >> >>So the energy of all life is dependent on the manipulation of two elements, >>hydrogen and oxygen. >> >>The study of a specific ratio of these elements then is of value not only >>as a study of energy, but as well as the study of all life. >> >>To learn the nature of energy and how it can be used, stored and converted, >>is a significant part of science. >> >>The discovery, testing, evaluating, measuring and capturing of this life >>force energy is then of value to all of science. >> >>But as a battery, I think that is only one aspect of this research, but >>yes, a battery like thing. But I may draw another analogy as to why I have >>some problem with just looking at this, Hydroxy technology, as only a >>battery thing. In the more, broad context, a tree could be looked upon as >>a battery thing, in that it captures and holds energy, that we can regain >>as heat and light, as we burn logs in a fireplace on cold withers nights. >> >>I also have great reluctance to identify Hydroxy only in biologic terms, as >>it is the mechanical sciences that I feel will most benefit. >> >>I do not also want to classify it as a providenceof only a practical >>science technology, because it redefines many of the perimeters here to >>held as absolute by theoretic physics. >> >>But I hope now that you might see that I was not being vague, but rather >>looking for you to formulate a more appropriate question. >> >>Best regards. >> >>TR Knudtson >> >> >> >> >> >> >>At 11:55 AM 10/1/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>13 thousands what? Permissible? >>> >>>Lee >>> >>>At 05:26 PM 10/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>>13 thousandths might be permissable. >>>> >>>>---------- >>>>> From: Lee Markland >>>>> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>>>> Subject: Wisdom and knowledge >>>>> Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 8:15 PM >>>>> >>>>> I mentioned this once before. But a very astute and credential scientist >>>>> once told me that if a person truly understood what it is they are >>>>talking >>>>> about, they could explain it in plain language understandable to a >>>>student >>>>> in the 6th grade. Meaning no appeal to jargon or authority. >>>>> >>>>> So I immediately asked him for a plain language explanation of the >>>>> methodology used by astronomers and physicists to obtain the value that >>>>is >>>>> given for the mass of the moon (.0129 that of Earth). >>>>> >>>>> Would you believe that he couldn't do such a simple thing. >>>>> >>>>> So I had to do volumes of research to come up with my own answer. >>>>> >>>>> I've thrown the question to a number of self styled experts, only to be >>>>met >>>>> with evasions, attempts at changing the subject, (including making me the >>>>> subject). I've received two answers both of them incomprehensible to a >>>>6th >>>>> grader. One of them outrageously long, telling me to tell the students >>>>how >>>>> much of a genius Newton was, and then later telling me to lie to them, so >>>>> as not to confuse them. >>>>> >>>>> I even had a noted astronomer admit that he lies to first year physics >>>>> students "for their own good", so as not to confuse them. >>>>> >>>>> It's really simple though, two paragraphs, three at most, and the >>>>> embarassing thing (at least embarassing if one has integrityand is >>>>> perceptive) is that the word assumption has to be used a number of times. >>>>> >>>>> I don't think, however, that I would like to spring it on a 6th grader, >>>>for >>>>> they are still perceptive enough at that age, to notice flaws and ask >>>>> embarrassing questions, which can only be answered by calling on >>>>authority >>>>> or telling them to do some research, or the coup de grace - attempt to >>>>> embarass them in public, by denigration and innuendo. >>>>> >>>>> Lee >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 19:45:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA29045; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 19:43:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 19:43:57 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 20:45:44 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Solaris Mail List is finally UP In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981003092830.0083d2e0@main.murray.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Kki-53.0.l57.jzO5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6757 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 3 Oct 1998, GEOFF EGEL wrote: -snip- so if you would like to be included you can sign up at http://energy21.listbot.com -snip- Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Geoff -------------------- Ahhh, Gee, localized. Good luck anyway.. stay in touch with the states now & again mate! -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 20:05:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA02648; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 20:04:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 20:04:40 -0700 Message-ID: <062601bdee7a$5d11a460$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Light generation Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 23:03:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"hZ1T_3.0.Df.7HP5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6758 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Could we use this summation effect of frequencies to produce columns of light? What would the effeciency be compared to current lighting systems? http://www.atcsd.com/HTML/whitepaper.html However, it was Hermann von Helmholtz (1821-1894) who completely re-ordered the thinking on these tones. By reporting that he could also hear summation tones (whose frequency was the sum rather than the difference of the two fundamental tones), Helmholtz demonstrated that the phenomenon had to result from a non-linearity. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 20:45:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA12214; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 20:41:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 20:41:22 -0700 Message-ID: <36159D2B.DFAFBE9F@GroupZ.net> Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 23:42:35 -0400 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: USA-TESLA@list.iex.net, KeelyNet , "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Question on magnetic star (off topic) References: <3614ABC1.46034452@GroupZ.net> <36159961.2227B185@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"m_EXQ1.0.l-2.WpP5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6759 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jim...since there were six hours from a relatively close supernova, does that mean. because of the extreme distance of this star we can expect a neutrino burst at some future time.... and can we calculate the mass from this burst when it arrives ??....to verify the estimated mass of neutrino we have now....steve Jim Farrer wrote: > > Dear "sno" > Several years ago, an astronomer returning from lunch at Cerro Tollolo > (sp?) observatory in Chile noticed a star shining where none should be. > He checked, and sure enough, no such bright star should have been there. > Reported it instantly, and is thus the discoverer of a super nova. Due to > his fast notification and our great world wide comm systems, I have read > that the Neutrino detection teams all over the world were able to prepare > for and register the arrival of the neutrino burst some 5 or 6 hours > later. Recently it has been found that one of the three neutron types > carries a very small amount of mass, thus cannot travel at exactly light > speed. The other two types are also expected to be found to posses mass. > Can anyone else verify or correct what I've so hazily recalled? > > Jim Farrer > > sno wrote: > > > Was wondering about the x-rays and gamma rays from the magnetic star > > that arrived > > 27 Sep....I assume that they were traveling at speed of light, are > > there any other > > particles that may have been emitted by this burst, that may arrive at > > a later time ??? > > > > If so, is there any chance that they could reach the earths surface, I > > understand that > > the x-rays and gamma rays were absorbed by the > > atmosphere....thanks...steve opelc From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 21:02:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA20617; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 20:58:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 20:58:59 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19981003040028.006b18c0@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 00:00:28 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: Solaris Mailing and Discussion Newsgroup Resent-Message-ID: <"frMOH2.0.325.24Q5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6760 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:30 AM 10/3/98 +0900, you wrote: > > > > > >Hi! ALL > >I suppose The world is not in need of a another free energy mailing and >discussion group with excellent groups of Freenry and Keeely net >groups but Solaris has promised one for some time now and I have finally >got around to putting up one. > >The news group will be unmoderated ( a danger in itself but I do not >believe in censorship ) and will be including on areas of interest as per >my solaris website. > >so if you would like to be included you can sign up at > >http://energy21.listbot.com > >Geoff > From what I have seen of your site you are more of a hands on kind of experimenter. Would this philosophy be carried on to your list? Sometimes I feel this list goes too deep into theory and can discuss how many angels can dance on the head of a pin for weeks. Nothing wrong with that but not my cup of tea. If this list will be more for experimenters then count me in. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 21:41:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA31745; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 21:32:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 21:32:26 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Grat Crabtree" To: Subject: RE: freenrg-digest Digest V98 #229 Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 21:33:22 -0700 Message-ID: <002901bdee86$fa6cbae0$a94268cf@gratnsue> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <199810030200.TAA13185@mx1.eskimo.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"quGnP2.0.fl7.IZQ5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6761 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The last I heard bob and lee were looking at my resume. Am I hired? I tried unsubscribing, did not work. I am such a sucker I cant stop reading lee: you truly are a moron. Grat http://grat.conk.com http://I.am/Grat http://grat.home.ml.org From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 2 23:18:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA27015; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 23:12:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 23:12:59 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981002211239.00d73bc8@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 14:12:39 -0700 To: "Don J. S. Adams" From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Objective Art - When reasoning fails Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, vortex-L@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"HFE632.0.rb6.g1S5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6762 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Don and all; Sorry for the delay. I had to catch up on some Autocad drawings. At 11:01 PM 9/25/98 -0500, Don J. S. Adams wrote: >Hi Dennis! > > >Like the fellow who critiqued you... I too didnt pay much attention >to your initial poem posts. Until you said to read it again. WOW! >Am I ever glad I did! Very cool... AND relevant in my humble opinion! >Nicely done and thanks for sharing it! I really appreciate your perspective >and different / refreshing views. Please explain the following if you don't >mind; > >1.) Nonconfrontational modes as alternative to flame wars, this appears > to be a subtle suggestion on your part for motiviating people who disagree > to use more 'civil' methods of discussion. However I get the feeling > you are indicating something deeper here...something more... please explain? I think that the same info could be exchanged as a team effort to find the truth as opposed to a seemingly unfriendly arguement. If people did their homework and were persistant, fuzzy info would become clear. I'd bet that every OU device discussed here has truth behind it and does work as claimed. The difficulty, I believe, is trying to replicate the experiment with out going through the 10, 20 ... or 50 years of development the inventor went through. Getting angry if it doesn't work on the first try may be unreasonable in such a case. >2.) Really loved the extracted text from the book! Simply wonderful! I have been > of this opinion myself for a very long time also! See my post on Acoustic > Fractals! Amazing beautiful music generated from recursive math! I immediately went to that URL when you mentioned it. I always thought it possible to compose music with equations. Anyone got an equation to midi stream generator? I know immediately when I hear music that I find appealing. I'd like to be able to translate those favorite musical segments to an equation. Then I'd know how to compose with equations. Reflections > of eternity? But here is a question for you, is it possible to precisely > isolate and define these 'real' properties of which the author speaks? I live at the Piano Factory which is a community for artists of all disciplines. The evil landlord prepaid the 1% MHFA mortgage and wants to disperse us because of money. We have a gallery where shows are held. I think striving to express greater numbers of levels in an art piece is fun and challenging. An OU device interacting with higher dimensions would instill a greater sense of awe and mystery than say a picture of a bowl of fruit. The NEA would not have things like a crucifix submerged in urine given an objective art criterea for grants. > If so can they be described without the use of anecdotal stories, emotional > associations or such? I felt the author seemed to still rely on sensate > representations, i.e. metaphorical meanings perceived as being embedded > in the statue at Hindu Kush. I mean shouldnt the 'values' or meaning transcend > what he provided as the detailed explanations of their perceptions? But then > I supose how do we use the serial phonetic construct of our language to adequately > contain an idea that is even beyond lateral thinking... way, way beyond.... > perhaps even on the outside of everything we perceive in our consensus, contextual > physical reality.... hmmmm perhaps it is in this modality of thinking that we would > need to be to ever truly discover 'FREE ENERGY'. Hey, you know... the more I think > about your post the MORE I REALLY LIKE IT!!!!!! ;) GIVE US MORE!!!! What do you think of this? Is information or knowledge an energy form? If so, when one teaches another, there is energy transfer. However, one still knows this info. Given the conservation of energy law, how can this be? Has energy been created when learning occurs? Does the teacher have an info vacuum from this knowledge transfer that compells the universe to fill this void with new knowledge? Is information the ultimate Free Energy? Dennis Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 3 01:06:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA10250; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 01:05:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 01:05:57 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981003173646.00857970@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 17:36:46 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re: The Solaris Mail List is finally UP In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19981003092830.0083d2e0@main.murray.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Uub3i.0.4W2.ahT5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6763 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:45 PM 10/2/98 -0600, you wrote: >On Sat, 3 Oct 1998, GEOFF EGEL wrote: >-snip- > so if you would like to be included you can sign up at > http://energy21.listbot.com >-snip- > Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Geoff >-------------------- >Ahhh, Gee, localized. >Good luck anyway.. stay in touch with the states now & again mate! >-=se=- > >The list is meant for ALL WANT TO BE ON AND NOT ONLY FOR AUSTRALIA AS PREVIOUS MESSAGE MAY HAVE READ Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 3 01:08:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA10869; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 01:07:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 01:07:37 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981003173828.0085a210@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 17:38:28 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re: Solaris Mailing and Discussion Newsgroup In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19981003040028.006b18c0@mail.wincom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"AzzBI.0.gf2.9jT5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6764 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:00 AM 10/3/98 -0400, you wrote: >At 09:30 AM 10/3/98 +0900, you wrote: >> >>AT WOULD TRY TO REFLECT HAND ON EXPERIEMENTS BUT NEED NOT BE LIMITED TO IT>> >> >> >>Hi! ALL >> >>I suppose The world is not in need of a another free energy mailing and >>discussion group with excellent groups of Freenry and Keeely net >>groups but Solaris has promised one for some time now and I have finally >>got around to putting up one. >> >>The news group will be unmoderated ( a danger in itself but I do not >>believe in censorship ) and will be including on areas of interest as per >>my solaris website. >> >>so if you would like to be included you can sign up at >> >>http://energy21.listbot.com >> >>Geoff >> > > From what I have seen of your site you are more of a hands on kind of >experimenter. Would this philosophy be carried on to your list? Sometimes I >feel this list goes too deep into theory and can discuss how many angels can >dance on the head of a pin for weeks. Nothing wrong with that but not my cup >of tea. If this list will be more for experimenters then count me in. > > > > Woody > > Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick >themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) > > Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 3 07:02:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA21156; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 07:01:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 07:01:32 -0700 Message-ID: <36163AD0.F7A5C114@harti.com> Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 15:55:12 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dave dameron , Jean Louis Naudin , "mrand910@yahoo.com" , "W.D. Bauer" , Dieter Bauer , Newman-L Mailing List , freenrg-l Subject: Coil to permanent magnet attraction force decreases ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"U4xMz.0.TA5.yuY5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6765 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dave and all, I have a question to your last coil experiments: As I have simulated with QF the attraction between a coil and a permanent magnet, I wonder, what will happen, when the permanent magnet moves into the coil ? (during the movement !) Will the force attracting the permanent magnet decrease ? Due to the Back-EMF generated inside the coil, the current will decrease and as the H field is directly proportional to the current flowing inside the coil, I guess , the H-field will also decrease and also decrease the force with which the magnet is attracted ? I guess, this is why it is hard to get the Newman motor over 100 % mechanically in efficiency ! The Neodym magnets just induce too much Back-EMF, so that the attraction force is too much decreased.. Maybe it is better to use just steel as the material to attract into the coil, cause this will not generate such a huge Back-EMF, when the steel is moving into the coil ? Do you have any experimental proof of this ? By the way, the power supply for the coil should stay on a constant voltage during this experiment. What do you think ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 3 07:18:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA25358; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 07:17:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 07:17:02 -0700 Message-ID: <36163EE7.35C8C424@harti.com> Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 16:12:39 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , freenrg-l Subject: Update on the gravitational converter Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ifSme1.0.8C6.T7Z5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6766 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I called the inventor yeasterday and he told me, the demo unit is now in a new lab, where it will be fixed during the next few days. So I hope I can report late next week some good news ! :) Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 3 07:24:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA27580; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 07:23:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 07:23:59 -0700 Message-ID: <36164097.9A97BE75@harti.com> Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 16:19:51 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , freenrg-l , Evan Soule Subject: New Newman motor tests ?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gCqNH1.0.sk6.-DZ5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6767 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, does anybofy know when Newman will test his new motor with the dynamometer and make any results available ? Is this test coming soon ? How much efficiency does it have mechanical out versus electrical in ? This is now the most important question for Joe Newman he should answer soon .... after his 12th September demo failed.. If he can answer this question truthfully and it is over 100 % then also his new 8th edition book will sell like hot potatoes I guess... So Joe , show us the numbers ! :) Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 3 07:37:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA29868; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 07:34:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 07:34:08 -0700 Message-ID: <361642FD.BE0C6892@harti.com> Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 16:30:05 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , Newman-L Mailing List , Evan Soule Subject: The least Back-EMF generating material ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eLacU3.0.XI7.VNZ5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6768 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I came to the conclusion, that for an efficient Newman overunity MOTOR it is very much needed a material, that is very powerful attracted to an electromagnet coil, BUT does NOT generate any big back EMF into the coil ! This way, the force attracting the material stays constant, also if the material moves ! What is the best material for this purpose ? Special Steel ? Or some kind of Mu-Metal ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 3 11:46:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA00406; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 11:45:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 11:45:00 -0700 X-Sender: sepp@lastrega.com (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: sepp@lastrega.com (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery Message-Id: <98Oct3.144609-0400_edt.34269523-16784+5@hugin.request.net> Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 14:40:47 -0400 Resent-Message-ID: <"ldmqu3.0.66.i2d5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6769 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here's what was written before: >>>I have a question though as regards this statement of yours" >>> >>>"This force provides patterns of energy which >>>"materialise" parts of the medium that fills space, coagulating it into >>>what we perceive to be particles of matter."" >>> >>>Wouldn't these patterns of energy which "materialize" parts of the medium >>>that fills space, introduce drag, friction, resistance to planets, moons, >>>asteroids and space ships? >> >>I don't think they would, in a similar way the electron beam in the tv set >>does not induce friction on the pictures we see moving on the screen. The >>analogy holds very closely, and I see matter not as anything substantial >>but a passing materialisation dependent on the energy pattern. Where the >>pattern moves to, the matter moves to, or vice versa if we want, if the >>pattern is in motion relative to the ether at it's position, it will be >>'manufacturing' new particles of matter at a constant rate. No friction >>involved at all. > >The key word in your statement is moving. The electron beam in the TV is in >motion, from its source. Thus anything else, this energy pool so to speak, >would also be in motion from its source, and hence there would and should >be a source - the sun? > >All is Motion, the incomprehensible, Dewey Larson. I have three of his books. > Yes certainly, motion is the key. In my view, motion is an illusion, at least it does not happen as we imagine it to be, particles traversing space and arriving at a different point. What happens (speculation of course but I am pretty sure) is that matter is a temporary change of state of the energy pool, (I have also called it space background or a "soup" of potential particles filling all space - the aether to be understood by all). If and when that soup gets touched by an energetic pattern, matter 'appears'. If and when that pattern "moves" (creeping along inside what we call physical space), the material manifestation *appears* to move. What however happens in reality, is that the material manifestation is being re-created from different particles out of the "pool", each moment of the motion. It is only the pattern that moves. The picture (or the material body) is simply re-created at a different spot and motion, as we perceive it, is a successive re-creation of the picture (or the material body) in different locations along the path of motion. Much more economical than having to actually lug pictures around or shove bodies from one place to another. - Josef Josef Hasslberger Snail mail address: Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY new e-mail address: sepp@lastrega.com homepage at http://www.lastrega.com/Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 3 13:06:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA25493; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 13:02:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 13:02:43 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 15:12:33 -0600 To: leoguitar@vossnet.de From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: New Newman motor tests ?? Cc: Newman-L Mailing List Resent-Message-ID: <"QE_CS3.0.7E6.YBe5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6770 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi All, > >does anybofy know >when Newman will test his new motor with the dynamometer and >make any results available ? >Is this test coming soon ? > >How much efficiency does it have >mechanical out versus electrical in ? > >This is now the most important question for Joe Newman >he should answer soon .... after his 12th September demo failed.. > >If he can answer this question truthfully and it is over 100 % >then also his new 8th edition book will sell like hot potatoes I >guess... > >So Joe , show us the numbers ! :) > > >Regards, Stefan. > > >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com >http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! Stefan, At this time Joe is back in Colorado at his lab and is completely UNWRAPPING all of the windings which resulted from the tech design input at the former company with which Joe is no longer associated. He had wanted the windings to be done a certain way and was told at that time by company reps that they could not technically do that and they proposed another design which was used. He will now be re-wrapping the coil as he had originally intended. [BTW, along the way he innovated a new coil-wrapping system which company reps wanted to 'patent'.] Anyway, he has told me that he plans to have an ON-GOING demo of the newly wrapped Motor in Phoenix -- such that people could come and see at their convenience. I could try to ascertain a specific date for this .... but I would prefer to wait until the Motor has been fully re-manufactured and is up and running. My best "guess" is within the next 4-6 weeks... maybe sooner. Well-meant and enthusiastic "gun-jumping" [aka "jumping the gun"] really does no one any justice... and I generally end up with the "fall-out"! :-( Best regards, Evan P.S. A reminder: Also, Joe can be reached by anyone, from anywhere in the world, this Sunday from 9am-9:30am (Pacific Time)/12noon-12:30pm (Eastern) when he hosts his radio program. The telephone number to call: (602) 247-KFNX in Phoenix, 1100 on the AM dial. "How do you get holy water? Boil the hell out of it." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 3 13:57:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA10471; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 13:55:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 13:55:28 -0700 Message-ID: <3616B754.3FEE@tiac.net> Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 16:46:28 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: Real Newman 2 coil experiment trick !] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"rDgzw1.0.XZ2._ye5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6771 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Message-ID: <3616B73A.137C@tiac.net> Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 16:46:02 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Subject: Re: Real Newman 2 coil experiment trick ! References: <01BDEBF4.53895A60.jwrinkle@utdallas.edu> <36122C70.6609BE5A@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Jason Wrinkle wrote: > > > I am confused now, you are saying the conventional EM theory supports > > Newman in this 2 coil demo? If this is the case, then what is the > > importance of this demo??!! If current theory describes this demo, then > > the fact that we get the results we do does nothing to point the arrow of > > truth toward Mr. Newman's theory. It might indicate that Newman theory > > encompasses current EM; however, the way I remember the tape going, Newman > > says that this experiment proves that his theory is correct. Thats right, Newman's two coil 'trick' is conventional EM. I've discussed this with Mr. Newman at some lenght. This gives us some insights on Mr. Newman's understanding of EM theory. Its important to see the disregard for total energy over time, and all the testing based on inaccurate steady state approximations. > The real trick is: > > from a very very big coil you will get more mechanical energy: > Force x distance on a permanent magnet attracted, > than it is necessary to put electrical energy into the > electromagnet (Newman-coil). That may be a good trick, but I think the real point here is that Mr. Newman used the two coil demonstration to support his theory. It does not seem to do that at all. It shows us where Mr. Newman has apparently misinterpreted conventional pheomena. The two coil experiment has been described as being 'key' to the development of the theory! > See it this way: > The Newman coil acts as a ON-OFF switchable permanent magnet > with very small power input only ! > The mechanical energy you can get out off one cycle can be bigger > than the inputed electrical energy to switch the Newman coil ON and OFF ! > > I have simulated this with Quickfield simulation software > and it can work, if you design the coil right ! > > Regards, Stefan. Quickfield is a static simulator. Do you plan to have actual test data that supports the claim that more mechanical energy can be taken off than electrical energy put into the coil? Can you simulate this in a dynamic simulation? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 3 15:29:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA05407; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 15:26:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 15:26:47 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:37:13 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Real Newman 2 coil experiment trick !] Resent-Message-ID: <"iyBhy3.0.KK1.cIg5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6772 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Message-ID: <3616B73A.137C@tiac.net> >Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 16:46:02 -0700 >From: Bob Shannon >Organization: Fair at best >X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: leoguitar@vossnet.de >Subject: Re: Real Newman 2 coil experiment trick ! >References: <01BDEBF4.53895A60.jwrinkle@utdallas.edu> ><36122C70.6609BE5A@harti.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Stefan Hartmann wrote: >> >> Jason Wrinkle wrote: >> >> > I am confused now, you are saying the conventional EM theory supports >> > Newman in this 2 coil demo? If this is the case, then what is the >> > importance of this demo??!! If current theory describes this demo, then >> > the fact that we get the results we do does nothing to point the arrow of >> > truth toward Mr. Newman's theory. It might indicate that Newman theory >> > encompasses current EM; however, the way I remember the tape going, Newman >> > says that this experiment proves that his theory is correct. > >Thats right, Newman's two coil 'trick' is conventional EM. I've >discussed >this with Mr. Newman at some lenght. This gives us some insights on Mr. >Newman's understanding of EM theory. > >Its important to see the disregard for total energy over time, and all >the testing based on inaccurate steady state approximations. > >> The real trick is: >> >> from a very very big coil you will get more mechanical energy: >> Force x distance on a permanent magnet attracted, >> than it is necessary to put electrical energy into the >> electromagnet (Newman-coil). > >That may be a good trick, but I think the real point here is that Mr. >Newman >used the two coil demonstration to support his theory. > >It does not seem to do that at all. It shows us where Mr. Newman has >apparently misinterpreted conventional pheomena. The two coil >experiment has been described as being 'key' to the development of the >theory! > >> See it this way: >> The Newman coil acts as a ON-OFF switchable permanent magnet >> with very small power input only ! >> The mechanical energy you can get out off one cycle can be bigger >> than the inputed electrical energy to switch the Newman coil ON and OFF ! >> >> I have simulated this with Quickfield simulation software >> and it can work, if you design the coil right ! >> >> Regards, Stefan. > >Quickfield is a static simulator. Do you plan to have actual test data >that supports the claim that more mechanical energy can be taken off >than electrical energy put into the coil? > >Can you simulate this in a dynamic simulation? Deja vu, Bob..... As Doyle expressed it: Subject: Two Coils or One and a Resistor To: josephnewman@earthlink.net From: "Doyle P. Henderson" Subject: Two Coils or One and a Resistor Organization: SCIENTIFIC SPECIALISTS . Some time ago I offered a personal review and a narrative description of the famous "Two-coil Experiment" Joe Newman conducted on-stage at an auditorium filled with young people. (I watched a copy of the video tape at home.) Joe compared the magnetic forces produced by applying approximately the same DC voltages (from the same set of batteries) to two similar coils of wire comprised, however, of noticeably more wire on one than on the other. He tested one coil and then the other, and repeated the tests several times while describing what he was doing and what the effects were to those who could not see the experiment clearly due to the size of the auditorium. The tests were imprecise; but, that really didn't matter-- as you will soon understand. To be brief, he showed that the smaller coil of wire drew more DC current than the larger one which had more turns and obviously had greater DC resistance. Yet, he also showed that the larger coil produced much greater magnetic effect (by deflecting a pointer) than did the smaller coil. Now, I pointed out then and again now, that everything he did could be explained using classical EM theory, by conventional electrical engineering and physics concepts. (And, some people might find cause to criticize the experiments for various reasons.) The point was and remains, that while doing the experiment, Joe explained what happened using HIS theories (hypotheses to those who insist), rather than using classical theory. He could have just connected an 18 ohm non-inductive 20-watt resistor across the 18 volt battery pack.... instead of using the smaller coil of wire........ That would have caused a static current draw of about one ampere and the resistor would have begun to heat up..... No one would be surprised to note that no magnetic field of much consequence would have been created-- nor would the deflection device have moved perceptibly when placed near the resistor. But, if he then connected the battery to a coil of wire.... an inductance of many turns and comprised of many pounds of mass... of enamel insulated copper, and which had a much higher ohmic resistance, then the current drawn might be much less than the one ampere which flowed through the lower ohm resistor. And, yet, the deflection detector, being sensitive to the electo-magnetic field generated by the voltage/current through the large coil of wire would have shown far greater effect than it did when placed next to the resistor. So, what is the big deal about the two-coil experiment? As I pointed out then, and again now, it just showed that a smaller amount of power (ExI) can create a larger magnetic effect using a large coil of wire than can a resistor-- or a smaller, lower resistance, coil of wire of less turns and mass. There is nothing more to note from the tests Joe did for those young people...... EXCEPT what he said as he explained what happened. Instead of using classical physics and electro-magnetic theory, which some of you keep advancing to explain the two-coil experiment as if no one knew all that..... Joe explained the experiment by using a different explanation..... a different concept.... That's it, people. So, you can stop "arguing" about the coils or the experiment. In my opinion, the only thing worthy of discussion is what Joe said was happening...... not what ten thousand engineers say.... What they say is nothing new !!!!!!!! I knew that. Gyroparticles, copper mass becoming energy... copper being MAGNETIC.... stuff like that.... now, that's NEW stuff.... Talk about that... but first, please read his book.... so you'll know what you're talking about instead of parroting old stuff that some of us here think just may be wrong. And, if it is, Joe has discovered and described some very important new things. That's important. Resistors just don't capture that evasive force. Nor does Ohms' law or maybe even Maxwell's equations explain or accommodate all these demonstrated phenomena.... Try to do that using new ideas... Joe's or your own. Never mind all that stuff in all those books unless you can get from there to here using it. Then, you'll be contributing meaningfully to the world's best interests-- as well as your own. Or, did I make another mistake in my observation or reporting what I saw? Oh well, have at me. I'm getting used to it. Doyle. |^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| | Visit The Net's No. 1 WebSite at: http://website-1.com | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 3 15:37:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA09020; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 15:36:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 15:36:26 -0700 Message-ID: <069501bdef1e$0f348740$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: , "Don J. S. Adams" Cc: , , Subject: Kerr Solution Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:34:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"HRF5Q2.0.lC2.fRg5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6773 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What can you tell us of the Kerr solution? What happens if a gravitating object rotates is the so-called drag effect. This is easiest to explain using a spherical body (e.g. a star). When the star is nonrotating, a test mass (a small body) which is shot into the direction of the centre of mass of the star will stay on a straight trajectory (on a `radius'). With a rotating star, this is not the case any more. The rotation somehow manages to `drag along' spacetime around it so that the test mass would deviate slightly from the straight line path and take a course into the direction of the rotation. As you might know, gravity obeys Einstein's Field equations, and every solution of those equations might potentially be realized in the `real world'. The solution of the field equations for a spherical, rotating body is known as the `Kerr solution', and it predicts the mentioned drag effect. I'm not sure whether the solution for a torus is known (at least I wasn't able to find anything in that direction), but I'm quite sure that the drag effect will take place anyway. After all one can show that any mass distribution of finite extension will more or less look like a point mass (or a sphere) the farther away you are, but the information about angular momentum must not be lost. http://madsci.wustl.edu/posts/907332964.Ph.r.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 3 17:31:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA00597; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:28:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:28:08 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981003004827.00a15ab0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 00:48:27 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: RE: freenrg-digest Digest V98 #229 In-Reply-To: <002901bdee86$fa6cbae0$a94268cf@gratnsue> References: <199810030200.TAA13185@mx1.eskimo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"M3enC3.0.C9.M4i5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6776 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:33 PM 10/2/98 -0700, you wrote: >The last I heard bob and lee were looking at my resume. > >Am I hired? > >I tried unsubscribing, did not work. >I am such a sucker I cant stop reading > > >lee: > you truly are a moron. Why thank you, considering the source (and I always consider the source) I consider that comment a compliment of the highest order. I truly wish you a great life Grat. Lee >Grat > >http://grat.conk.com >http://I.am/Grat >http://grat.home.ml.org > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 3 17:31:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA00547; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:28:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:28:03 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981003003818.00a1cd60@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 00:38:18 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Light generation In-Reply-To: <062601bdee7a$5d11a460$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"dw8o21.0.F8.I4i5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6774 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If you don't mind the interdiction of a dilletante - I don't see why not. Since Light is part of the EM spectrum why not create light with a summation of frequencies. Lee At 11:03 PM 10/2/98 -0400, you wrote: >Could we use this summation effect of frequencies to produce columns of >light? What would the effeciency be compared to current lighting systems? > >http://www.atcsd.com/HTML/whitepaper.html > >However, it was Hermann von Helmholtz (1821-1894) who completely re-ordered >the thinking on these tones. By reporting that he could also hear summation >tones (whose frequency was the sum rather than the difference of the two >fundamental tones), Helmholtz demonstrated that the phenomenon had to result >from a non-linearity. > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 3 17:31:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA00575; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:28:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:28:04 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981003004556.00a139d0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 00:45:56 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Question on magnetic star (off topic) In-Reply-To: <36159D2B.DFAFBE9F@GroupZ.net> References: <3614ABC1.46034452@GroupZ.net> <36159961.2227B185@erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"p3YLX.0.n8.J4i5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6775 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Can you define mass? So that we know what we are calculating? Did it take 5 or 6 hours for this so called "neutrino" burst to reach Earth, meaning it traveled at subliminal speeds? What an emission of radiation from a supernova travel at subliminal speeds while the light traveled at a higher rate of speed? Or did it take 5 or 6 hours of chain reaction, after the star went supernova, before this radiation we call neutrino's was released? Are these valid questons? Lee At 11:42 PM 10/2/98 -0400, you wrote: >Jim...since there were six hours from a relatively close >supernova, does that mean. because of the extreme distance of >this star we can expect a neutrino burst at some future >time.... >and can we calculate the mass from this burst when it arrives ??....to >verify the estimated mass of neutrino we have now....steve > >Jim Farrer wrote: >> >> Dear "sno" >> Several years ago, an astronomer returning from lunch at Cerro Tollolo >> (sp?) observatory in Chile noticed a star shining where none should be. >> He checked, and sure enough, no such bright star should have been there. >> Reported it instantly, and is thus the discoverer of a super nova. Due to >> his fast notification and our great world wide comm systems, I have read >> that the Neutrino detection teams all over the world were able to prepare >> for and register the arrival of the neutrino burst some 5 or 6 hours >> later. Recently it has been found that one of the three neutron types >> carries a very small amount of mass, thus cannot travel at exactly light >> speed. The other two types are also expected to be found to posses mass. >> Can anyone else verify or correct what I've so hazily recalled? >> >> Jim Farrer >> >> sno wrote: >> >> > Was wondering about the x-rays and gamma rays from the magnetic star >> > that arrived >> > 27 Sep....I assume that they were traveling at speed of light, are >> > there any other >> > particles that may have been emitted by this burst, that may arrive at >> > a later time ??? >> > >> > If so, is there any chance that they could reach the earths surface, I >> > understand that >> > the x-rays and gamma rays were absorbed by the >> > atmosphere....thanks...steve opelc > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 3 17:39:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04999; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981003003039.00a11bb0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 00:30:39 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980930223939.00869410@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19960110071128.00a0d2b0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980930192839.008673e0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981001115528.00a14980@rockisland.com> <199810020519.BAA05618@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"bmaAh.0.zD1.4Di5s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6778 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well Ted, I'll try to be more compassionate, although on my part I'm fairly accustomed (and quite inured) to have folk, especially experts and true believes try to beat up on me. I say try, because I have to permit it for it to happen - but that is a case of personal psychodynamics - beyond the scope of this forum. I am aware though (painfully ) that I can be testy and frustrating, especially since I lack credentials in the things in which I speak. Admittedly a Class A ignoramus. But you really do a good job, when you put your mind to it. Your explanation was definitely clear and succint, easy to follow and very enjoyable and it is those types of communications I enjoy and learn from. A comment if you will permit, however, on "running far afield". I have a lot of life and work experience, including what one would loosely term a think tank (I was amongst other things, a military planner). The most productive planning sessions were those in which we would sit around and let the mind and the scenario's run far afield. Where we screwed up, was in not letting them run far enough afield. I'll give one example. I don't know if you recall that aborted Iranian Hostage Rescue Operation during the Carter Administration. Well that situation was the motivation to create what has become known as Delta Force and finally the Special Operations Command. The planners did not run far afield enough. The overlooked the possibility that the Navy had 60 and 100 ft refueling hoses available for the Sea Stallions. And hence a Naval Supply Officer provided 4 100 ft hoses and one 60 ft hose for the refueling operation. It was the 60' ft hose that resulted in the Sea Stallion trying to lift off and reposition itself, kicking up a sand storm, obscuring vision and resulting in the rotor blades slicing into the C130 "Bladder Bird". There's a little critter in the back of my brain that keeps whispering, that it the expanded imagination and the questioning of orthodoxy that accounts for human progress. Although I will admit I've been on some forums where the "expanded imagination" gets a little too much for my stomach - as it runs very heavily into the metaphysical and the circular - real woo woo (New Age Stuff). I'm of a very practical frame of mind, and feel that nature is not so complicated as the human mind tends to make it. Although by complicating reality we create niches for ourselves, and thus expand our employment opportunities ..... Thanks Again, and I promise that I will try my very best to behave. By the way, what's it like having to contend with a female senior citizen who isn't into trivia, soap opera's, gossip, recipes or chat rooms? :) Lee Markland At 10:39 PM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 07:11 AM 1/10/96 -0800, you wrote: > >Dear Lee, > >Maybe you and I have had some sort of personal breakthrough, so that now we >can more clearly understand one another. From this point forward, let's >try to be a little more compassionate with each other. > >Yes, I am a teacher. I have a Vocational, teaching credential in theory and >practical electrical, Junior collage level. > >If you like what I had wrote you in our last post, I do encourage you to >re-examine my other postings, as I had suggested. Not to beat a dead >horse! (Smile) ref. Below. > >In them I open some speculation on this new state of mater and energy, >Hydroxy. But also cover in simple terms, some of the existing complex >issues of relativity and inertia. > >I do very much encourage the challenging of excepted models of the >universe, but do caution, that if all is energy as some may surmise, this >conversation can easily run far afield. > >To keep some level of decorum, we may choose to head our letters of with >specifics, and as speculative points are raised, we may discipline >ourselves to making a clear break in our posts, then being free to enter >into conjecture and speculation. It is my hope that in this way others may >find it easier to follow, and respond to specifics as well as dabble along >with us in off topic summaries and or curiosities. I will do my best to >always thoroughly answer and on-topic question, an open option to reserve >comment on the more speculative issues. > >I do not mean to be so dictatorial here, but I would not allow a Willie >nilly approach to learning in my class, and I feel some basic format and >discipline is needed here as well. > >So, the format would look like this. > >On topic: Relevant to the last few posts. > >Speculative: With reference to topic. > >Free forum: Gee! Have you ever wondered about this, or that?????? > >Does this sound workable? On topic, speculative, and free forum. We could >call it (OSF) format? > >Best > >TR Knudtson > > >http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/hydroxy.html > > > > >>Thank you very much for contributing so eloquently to my education. Great >>job, by the way. This one is a keeper (i'll save it in text format). You >>should be a teacher, are you? >> >>I do understand some of this and am familiar with the principle of Hydoxy, >>at least as regards Browns Gas. But this is wonderful stuff. >> >>I understand that energy is stored in matter, like plant food, and minerals >>and that it can be converted through some action, like a catalyst, to >>energy. And that all matter is merely "bound" energy (does that sound >>correct?) >> >>It is just that when I get into that region known as space, where there >>"appears" to be nothing more than a void, except for the lines of force >>like gravity and "other" EM transmission, that I enounter a difficulty with >>"stored" energy or a medium, like a sugar cube or a pool of oil. >> >>However space is definitely, not empty, since as you and others have >>pointed out there is a tremendous amount of energy constantly transitting >>space (and our own bodies, and the planet itself). The question then seems >>to me, the ability to tap this transient energy and convert it into a form >>that we can use. >> >>I guess that kind of makes the term free energy, an oxymoron (not my >>intention). >> >>I would wonder if there is a region in our galaxy or any galaxy in which >>there is no energy, transiting - a void in other words. >> >>When I look in the sky I see little spots of light. Light emitted from far >>off stars, and although much diminished by their expansion from the source, >>these little points of light represent little points of energy. Which it >>seems would have the possibility, given the knowledge and tools, to be >>captured, used and converted to a useable form. >> >>Much like radio frequencies can be used to open car doors, garage doors or >>guide airplanes. >> >>But it seems there are no "pools" of static or stagnant energy just lying >>around. Instead this energy is in constant motion, moving from its source >>and expanding outwards in a sphere and diminishing in strength as it does so. >> >>Does that make sense? >> >>:) >> >>Thanks very much for your time and kind explanation, as I said this is a >>keeper. >> >>Lee >> >>At 07:28 PM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>Dear Lee >>> >>>Electrolyses has been around for more than a Century and a half. Faraday, >>>1833 to be exact. Off the top of my head I can not remember the mans name, >>>but a contemporary of Faraday, then went on to show that you can recover >>>electricity from the gasses hydrogen and oxygen, 1840 or so. In essence >>>this presents itself as a closed loop energy system. Until our work, this >>>is where the research stayed, the recombining of gasses to produce >>>electricity is the foundation of Fuel Cell technology. Fuel cell >>>technology, was further developed in the 50s and 60s to provide reliable DC >>>power for spacecraft. The nice part of this process it that after the >>>electricity is recovered the gasses recombine to form pure water. If you >>>look at Fuel cell, as a source of power of spacecraft, you get two >>>benefits, electricity and clean water, from stored liquid hydrogen and >>oxygen. >>> >>>All of science has looked for a medium of exchange in energy. This quest if >>>you will, is central to Einstein's work to discover what is known as, the >>>grand unified field theory. For more than a century scientists have felt >>>that there must be some universality to energy, in that you can convert >>>back and forth in manifest forms. Like with inertia, or "Kinetic" energy. >>>Take your car going down the road at high speed, slam on the breaks and the >>>tires get hot enough to smoke. Inertia converted to heat! Electricity >>>seems to posses the most convertibility. Inertia or more generally >>>"mechanical" to drive a conductor ( a coil) in a field. Then all sorts of >>>things can come from this, light, heat, mechanical, radio, even >>>radioactive, in that the common x-ray tube is an electrical device. This >>>general convertibility of all forms of manifest energy is what led them to >>>look for a medium of exchange, a potential energy that all energies had in >>>common. >>> >>>Nature has been doing this conversion forever. Through photosynthesis, >>>Chloroplasts, the cells in plants that convert light energy, take water and >>>divide it by bonding Hydrogen to carbon. The excess oxygen they give up to >>>the air, enriching our atmosphere. The carbon they get from >>>carbon-dioxide, direct from the atmosphere, a result of volcanism in the >>>earth's core. >>> >>>You have heard of us, "Humans" described as "carbon based life forms"? >>>Well, carbon may be the building block of all life, but surly hydrogen is >>>the "cement" then in this analogy. The plants busily convert water into >>>what are called "Sacarides", basically sugars, but they do not stop there. >>>They continue on to build themselves out of this stuff by using oxygen, >>>once again to form linking chains, that the fiber and tubular structures >>>that stalks and leaves are made of. This linking is made by the Hydroxyl >>>bond. Hence the name for the gas that I speak of, Hydroxy. >>> >>>The structure of sugar and starch are similar and can loosely be described >>>as simple and complex, carbo-hydrates. There are those words again "Carbo" >>>or carbon, and Hydro or hydrogen. These Carbohydrates are what we use to >>>gain energy for our life sustaining force. If we eat meat we are still >>>using this energy, just second hand, as stored in the protein structures of >>>the meat. This protein structure is called a Polypeptide bond, also >>>hydroxyl in nature. So you and all lining animal life are dependent on >>>Hydroxy for the stuff that makes you. Now, it does not end there. >>> >>>You are no reading these words, and your mind is using electricity in a way >>>that allows for though. This is a highly developed electrical process. We >>>know much about this, but we may still have a wonderment as to where the >>>little electrical generator is that generates all those little sparks in >>>our brains. Well guess what? It turns out that the sugar, remember, bonded >>>carbon and hydrogen, is once again very important in this process. In our >>>brain cells, there are little chambers that allow for a controlled reaction >>>of the hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen for this reaction comes from the >>>sugar, and the oxygen comes from the air we breath. >>> >>>Now remember, the air was enriched with the oxygen left over when plants >>>made sugars from carbon by breaking down water, and also to make their >>>stalks, seeds, and leaves. We, breath in this oxygen, and it is >>>transferred to our blood. The blood then carries the oxygen to the cells. >>> >>>Our brain cells, then use hydrogen and oxygen to make the electricity that >>>fires the circuitry of our brain. This also is similar to the functioning >>>of our muscles. The result is the tell tail of the reaction, that being >>>pure water and a discharge of extra oxygen and carbon, in the form of >>>carbon dioxide, the main gas, we breath out. And wouldn't you know it, >>>that is exactly what the trees and plants need to start the process all >>>over again. >>> >>>So, now for review. >>> >>>All energy in the world of living things is dependent on hydrogen and >>>oxygen. >>> >>>Carbon is used to separate these materials, Hydrogen and oxygen, when >>>charged with energy and to form the building blocks for all living >>>structures. >>> >>>Hydroxyl bonds, help in forming the more complex structures of proteins. >>> >>>Proteins are the most primitive structure of all life, which are in >>>essence, Hydroxyl bonds of carbon. >>> >>>Electricity, that is needed to order and facilitate thought, is a result of >>>a hydroxyl reaction. >>> >>>So the energy of all life is dependent on the manipulation of two elements, >>>hydrogen and oxygen. >>> >>>The study of a specific ratio of these elements then is of value not only >>>as a study of energy, but as well as the study of all life. >>> >>>To learn the nature of energy and how it can be used, stored and converted, >>>is a significant part of science. >>> >>>The discovery, testing, evaluating, measuring and capturing of this life >>>force energy is then of value to all of science. >>> >>>But as a battery, I think that is only one aspect of this research, but >>>yes, a battery like thing. But I may draw another analogy as to why I have >>>some problem with just looking at this, Hydroxy technology, as only a >>>battery thing. In the more, broad context, a tree could be looked upon as >>>a battery thing, in that it captures and holds energy, that we can regain >>>as heat and light, as we burn logs in a fireplace on cold withers nights. >>> >>>I also have great reluctance to identify Hydroxy only in biologic terms, as >>>it is the mechanical sciences that I feel will most benefit. >>> >>>I do not also want to classify it as a providenceof only a practical >>>science technology, because it redefines many of the perimeters here to >>>held as absolute by theoretic physics. >>> >>>But I hope now that you might see that I was not being vague, but rather >>>looking for you to formulate a more appropriate question. >>> >>>Best regards. >>> >>>TR Knudtson >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>At 11:55 AM 10/1/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>>13 thousands what? Permissible? >>>> >>>>Lee >>>> >>>>At 05:26 PM 10/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>>>13 thousandths might be permissable. >>>>> >>>>>---------- >>>>>> From: Lee Markland >>>>>> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>>>>> Subject: Wisdom and knowledge >>>>>> Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 8:15 PM >>>>>> >>>>>> I mentioned this once before. But a very astute and credential scientist >>>>>> once told me that if a person truly understood what it is they are >>>>>talking >>>>>> about, they could explain it in plain language understandable to a >>>>>student >>>>>> in the 6th grade. Meaning no appeal to jargon or authority. >>>>>> >>>>>> So I immediately asked him for a plain language explanation of the >>>>>> methodology used by astronomers and physicists to obtain the value that >>>>>is >>>>>> given for the mass of the moon (.0129 that of Earth). >>>>>> >>>>>> Would you believe that he couldn't do such a simple thing. >>>>>> >>>>>> So I had to do volumes of research to come up with my own answer. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've thrown the question to a number of self styled experts, only to be >>>>>met >>>>>> with evasions, attempts at changing the subject, (including making me >the >>>>>> subject). I've received two answers both of them incomprehensible to a >>>>>6th >>>>>> grader. One of them outrageously long, telling me to tell the students >>>>>how >>>>>> much of a genius Newton was, and then later telling me to lie to >them, so >>>>>> as not to confuse them. >>>>>> >>>>>> I even had a noted astronomer admit that he lies to first year physics >>>>>> students "for their own good", so as not to confuse them. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's really simple though, two paragraphs, three at most, and the >>>>>> embarassing thing (at least embarassing if one has integrityand is >>>>>> perceptive) is that the word assumption has to be used a number of >times. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't think, however, that I would like to spring it on a 6th grader, >>>>>for >>>>>> they are still perceptive enough at that age, to notice flaws and ask >>>>>> embarrassing questions, which can only be answered by calling on >>>>>authority >>>>>> or telling them to do some research, or the coup de grace - attempt to >>>>>> embarass them in public, by denigration and innuendo. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lee >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 3 17:35:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA00882; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:29:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:29:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981003015442.00a25bf0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 01:54:42 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery In-Reply-To: <98Oct3.144609-0400_edt.34269523-16784+5@hugin.request.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"fjyUc2.0.eD.d5i5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6777 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:40 PM 10/3/98 -0400, you wrote: >Here's what was written before: > >>>>I have a question though as regards this statement of yours" >>>> >>>>"This force provides patterns of energy which >>>>"materialise" parts of the medium that fills space, coagulating it into >>>>what we perceive to be particles of matter."" >>>> >>>>Wouldn't these patterns of energy which "materialize" parts of the medium >>>>that fills space, introduce drag, friction, resistance to planets, moons, >>>>asteroids and space ships? >>> >>>I don't think they would, in a similar way the electron beam in the tv set >>>does not induce friction on the pictures we see moving on the screen. The >>>analogy holds very closely, and I see matter not as anything substantial >>>but a passing materialisation dependent on the energy pattern. Where the >>>pattern moves to, the matter moves to, or vice versa if we want, if the >>>pattern is in motion relative to the ether at it's position, it will be >>>'manufacturing' new particles of matter at a constant rate. No friction >>>involved at all. >> >>The key word in your statement is moving. The electron beam in the TV is in >>motion, from its source. Thus anything else, this energy pool so to speak, >>would also be in motion from its source, and hence there would and should >>be a source - the sun? >> >>All is Motion, the incomprehensible, Dewey Larson. I have three of his books. >> > >Yes certainly, motion is the key. > >In my view, motion is an illusion, at least it does not happen as we >imagine it to be, particles traversing space and arriving at a different >point. > >What happens (speculation of course but I am pretty sure) is that matter is >a temporary change of state of the energy pool, (I have also called it >space background or a "soup" of potential particles filling all space - the >aether to be understood by all). > >If and when that soup gets touched by an energetic pattern, matter >'appears'. If and when that pattern "moves" (creeping along inside what we >call physical space), the material manifestation *appears* to move. What >however happens in reality, is that the material manifestation is being >re-created from different particles out of the "pool", each moment of the >motion. > >It is only the pattern that moves. The picture (or the material body) is >simply re-created at a different spot and motion, as we perceive it, is a >successive re-creation of the picture (or the material body) in different >locations along the path of motion. Much more economical than having to >actually lug pictures around or shove bodies from one place to another. > >- Josef > >Josef Hasslberger So what you are saying is that matter doesn't move, only the pattern moves. So if I throw a stone, then I'm not throwing a stone, only a pattern? And that the universe is merely a giant soup of energy, sitting there, not moving, not going anywhere? However if that pattern moves, then something must be making it move. What could be causing the movement of patterns? And what about non moving patterns, like the gravel rocks on my drive way. If you are right then we should easily be able to teleport things including people, it is just a matter of figuring out how to get down a complete picture (snapshot) of the energy pattern. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 3 18:23:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA31148; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:17:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:17:20 -0700 Message-ID: <3616CD20.67736E62@GroupZ.net> Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 21:19:28 -0400 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, KeelyNet , "USA-TESLA@list.iex.net" Subject: Re: Question on magnetic star (off topic) References: <3614ABC1.46034452@GroupZ.net> <36159961.2227B185@erols.com> <3.0.5.32.19981003004556.00a139d0@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YOvTQ1.0.cc7.Voi5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6779 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: OK Lee, I'll bite, as I understand mass...it is anything that shows the property we call inertia...the more the mass the more the inertia that is shown at equal speeds... Anything that has mass, as it gets closer and closer to the speed of light, takes more and more energy to get it to go faster..(e=mc^2 or c^=m/e)....therefore to my way of thinking, anything that has mass will travel slower than the speed of light...and if a neutrino has mass, it will arrive later than x-rays/gamma rays which, having no mass, travel at speed of light....so my thinking is that the six hours was caused by neutrinos having mass... Am waiting to be corrected on any of this .....steve Lee Markland wrote: > > Can you define mass? So that we know what we are calculating? > > Did it take 5 or 6 hours for this so called "neutrino" burst to reach > Earth, meaning it traveled at subliminal speeds? What an emission of > radiation from a supernova travel at subliminal speeds while the light > traveled at a higher rate of speed? > > Or did it take 5 or 6 hours of chain reaction, after the star went > supernova, before this radiation we call neutrino's was released? > > Are these valid questons? > > Lee > > At 11:42 PM 10/2/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Jim...since there were six hours from a relatively close > >supernova, does that mean. because of the extreme distance of > >this star we can expect a neutrino burst at some future > >time.... > >and can we calculate the mass from this burst when it arrives ??....to > >verify the estimated mass of neutrino we have now....steve > > > >Jim Farrer wrote: > >> > >> Dear "sno" > >> Several years ago, an astronomer returning from lunch at Cerro Tollolo > >> (sp?) observatory in Chile noticed a star shining where none should be. > >> He checked, and sure enough, no such bright star should have been there. > >> Reported it instantly, and is thus the discoverer of a super nova. Due to > >> his fast notification and our great world wide comm systems, I have read > >> that the Neutrino detection teams all over the world were able to prepare > >> for and register the arrival of the neutrino burst some 5 or 6 hours > >> later. Recently it has been found that one of the three neutron types > >> carries a very small amount of mass, thus cannot travel at exactly light > >> speed. The other two types are also expected to be found to posses mass. > >> Can anyone else verify or correct what I've so hazily recalled? > >> > >> Jim Farrer > >> > >> sno wrote: > >> > >> > Was wondering about the x-rays and gamma rays from the magnetic star > >> > that arrived > >> > 27 Sep....I assume that they were traveling at speed of light, are > >> > there any other > >> > particles that may have been emitted by this burst, that may arrive at > >> > a later time ??? > >> > > >> > If so, is there any chance that they could reach the earths surface, I > >> > understand that > >> > the x-rays and gamma rays were absorbed by the > >> > atmosphere....thanks...steve opelc > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 3 21:39:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA05875; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 21:37:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 21:37:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199810040438.AAA11249@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , Subject: Copper Magnetic Compression Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 14:19:13 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pn_ol1.0.iR1.7kl5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6780 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Back in 1988 when Newmans motor was making news I decided to try my hand at building a copper magnetic motor. For the magnets I used 4 in by 6 in by 1 in ceramic magnets. Eight of these were stacked, four on each side of a square steel piece of similar dimensions. The steel center had a hole drilled to accommodate an axle. Threaded aluminum rod and and endplates insured this 50 lb magnetic rotor would not come apart on rotation. This then was about 10 in length. The coils were 20,000 winds of 23 gauge @ 1000 ohms. The first objection to Newmans method of construction is that he places the rotor in the side area of the coil noting that if the rotor is in the polar area a cancellation effect takes place. Nevertheless the polar area has the strongest effect on the rotor, or so I thought. An interesting experiment is to rotate the magnet on both side and polar models and to observe the induced currents on an oscilloscope. From what I thought I noticed was that on the side model the induced currents were in phase with the flux change through the coil made by the rotating magnet. On the polar model these currents seemed to be 90 degrees out of phase with the flux change. Thus the side model seemed to show a resonant output. Now when dc current is applied to the coil in the side model configuration that Newman commonly uses, the strongest torque or force on the magnet occurs halfway in the 180 degree motion of the rotors magnetic alignment. This is when the rotor is at a horizontal or ninety degree position to the coil. When the rotor is vertical a polarity change on the "field" coil is needed to continue the next 180 degrees of rotor movement. This of course is the job of the commutator. Now the first idea to improve things was to put coils on both sides of the rotor to double the force on the rotor at max.torque position. Secondly it was desirous to have a second set of coils that could turn on at their maximum torque position placed sideways respective to the rotors verticle postion. Thus 4 field coils could be used with only 2 functioning at any given moment, and the rotor could then be subjected a better overall torque during its 360 degrees of rotation. Along with this system a special independent commutation system was concieved in which three corevolving cylinders (similar to the old syle washing machines) would appropriately deliver the current to the correct system at the correct polarity.Input went to the center roller and outpts to the ends and vice versa. The beauty of this proposed system was that the blinking of power into the coils could be made independent of the magnets rotation, which conventional commutator design does not allow.This blinking would be solely regulated by the rpm of the three cylindrical design, which can be driven independently of the rotors rpm. Also non-linear separation speed of contacts helped to deal with induction arcing problems. But if I havent confused everyone by now let me get back to the point I am trying to make. During the building of the structure to hold the four coils, (they weighed 80 lb.s apiece), a monumental oversight was noted. The length of the coils were 13 inches. That meant that after two coils were placed alongside the 10 inch rotor. the top and bottom coils would not fit in a sideways position. So what was done was to place them in a polar position. This then was an experimental field configuration employing both side and polar positions. These 4 coils were then wired in series and a most remarkable thing was noted about how the rotor reacted to these combined fields. With a polar model the strongest torque is obviously that when the poles of the rotor came closest to the poles of the field coils. In the hybrid 4 coil model this is not the case! The strongest torque occurred when the rotor was perpendicular to the side model coils, but in a direction opposite to its normal action! This would be at the rotors vertical configuration in conjunction with the primitive drawing below. ____ N____S _____ ____ S_____N S____N ____ N____S The significance of this field configuration is such that when the operation is reversed,(in generator action)so that the magnet revolves and its output wave is observed on an oscilloscope, it resembles more of a square wave than a sine wave. Imagine again that the rotor,(which is not shown) exists in the middle open area between the four field coils. If it is verticle with north up it will have the strongest torque during this moment,which will be in the clockwise direction. This is what I observed . If the left and right polar coils now shut off the weaker side action magnetic force comes into play from the top and bottom coils. The significance of what I am saying is that this side action exerts a torque in the OPPOSITE direction or counterclockwise, but at a much weaker magnitude. What this implies is that a magnet can be continually rotated without polarity reversals on the field coils. Magnetic compression can serve to create the same function. In that kind of system all 4 coils are on for 180 degress of revolution and the 2 polar coils shut off for the 2nd 180 degrees. That system is very inefficient however. To summarize: When the actions of the pole model and side model are placed together we find that individually the pole system would drive the magnets in a opposite direction than the side system would drive them alone. We would therefore expect the side model to exert a torque in the opposite direction on the rotor. But what actually happens is that the torque is added instead of subtracted as to deliver a field configuration that delivers more torque than either system alone. At 1000 volts I was able to attain 400 rpm of this 50 lb rotor using the above field configuration, which I recorded on tape. Think I'll go look on the dusty book shelf for that one. Sincere in the work H Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 3 22:14:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA14570; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 22:13:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 22:13:15 -0700 Message-ID: <36170488.7C51@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 00:15:52 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Robert Pavlita website Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"z3vUi3.0.aZ3.hFm5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6781 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! Finally, after years of lethargy with regard to the amazing work of Robert Pavlita, using a combination of geometry and specific materials to produce amazing phenomena without outside energy input, a website is now up devoted to what he discovered and the permutations that are being investigated by others. Check out; ========================= Jerry, Finally got small web site up, basic of Pavlita: The Geometry of Robert Pavlita; http://www.ddaccess.com/michaeldonovan Not good at computer stuff, graphics don't work yet. But it is a start, and really enough for engineer with real interest to get started, basics are there, just much work. But would love for you to take a look, and would be interested in any comments. (that goes for anyone else who can help him flesh it out..>> Jerry) Best, Michael Donovan michaeldonovan@ddaccess.com Norfolk, VA =========== Michael could probably use some help with his site if you are open to offering some free assistance..thanks! It is an important project and long overdue. -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 3 22:20:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA16626; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 22:18:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 22:18:25 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 22:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810040519.WAA21164@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: [Fwd: How 'FREE-ENERGY' is implicated in CONVENTIONAL ELECTRODYNAMICS!!!!! Re: th] Resent-Message-ID: <"rfDI11.0.d34.XKm5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6782 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi John and all, At 01:33 PM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Look at the attached .gif and tell me what part is wrong, Is the magnetic field >not as I say it is? Is it not in circles around the electron? do I have the >direction of the field wrong? Does it not depend on relative velocity to the >electron to see the magnetic field? Will the magnetic field not expand out and >move from the electron (with acceleration)? I understand the electron velocity, and with many electrons, increasing the velocity, that is "current", increases the magnetic field. Could you explain why this means the magnetic field expands or moves out? (Fig. 3 in your file) Does a moving magnetic field not >create a force on electrical charges? Is this force not at right angels to the >motion and the magnetic field? Is the direction of the magnetic field and it's >motion (due to expansion) not at right angels to each other and the electrons >motion (they are not all three mutually orthogonal)? So why do you say that the >two electrons with growing speed relative to each other not have a force that is >increasing there relative velocity? > Thanks, -Dave >Attachment Converted: C:\EARTHLNK\ELECTRIC.gif > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 3 22:20:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA16766; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 22:18:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 22:18:53 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 22:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810040520.WAA21288@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: leoguitar@vossnet.de From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Coil to permanent magnet attraction force decreases ? Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"6tjrk.0.m54.xKm5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6783 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan and all, At 03:55 PM 10/3/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Dave and all, > >I have a question to your last coil experiments: > >As I have simulated with QF the attraction between a coil >and a permanent magnet, I wonder, what will happen, >when the permanent magnet moves into the coil ? >(during the movement !) > >Will the force attracting the permanent magnet decrease ? > >Due to the Back-EMF generated inside the coil, the current will >decrease and as the H field is directly proportional to the current >flowing inside the coil, >I guess , the H-field will also decrease and also decrease >the force with which the magnet is attracted ? > >I guess, this is why it is hard to get the Newman motor >over 100 % mechanically in efficiency ! The Neodym magnets >just induce too much Back-EMF, so that the attraction force >is too much decreased.. Maybe with stronger magnets, the velocity is just less. I don't know which is better. > >Maybe it is better to use just steel as the material to attract into the >coil, >cause this will not generate such a huge Back-EMF, when the >steel is moving into the coil ? > >Do you have any experimental proof of this ? Of the decrease? Yes, it is easy to demonstrate with a coil, power supply or battery, and current meter. A light bulb can be used as a current indicator. So the total H decreases with the current flowing through the coil, but some of the air is now replaced with the steel material, which has a lower H. So the H in air may actually increase as the path is less. Haven't done the calculations? At the end, with the steel moved into the center, the current is back to the steady state value, but the H field in the air has increased. A permanent Neodym magnet is different, as it apprears already "saturated", that is, the magnetic domains are already aligned, so changing the applied H field doesn't appear to change the B field, at least unless the field is Strong enough to magnetize the Neodym further! >By the way, the power supply for the coil should stay on a constant >voltage >during this experiment. Yes, as opposed to a constant current source where the amp-turns and the H field would be fixed. > >What do you think ? > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 4 03:46:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA25657; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 03:45:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 03:45:04 -0700 X-Sender: sepp@lastrega.com (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: sepp@lastrega.com (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery Message-Id: <98Oct4.064611-0400_edt.34310380-8164+3@hugin.request.net> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 06:32:33 -0400 Resent-Message-ID: <"_-SKQ3.0.kG6.l6r5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6784 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Exactly. You got the idea. Movement of patterns could be caused by interaction between patterns, such as the pattern of my body and the pattern of planet earth, which have an attractive force between them. It could be caused by adding directional energy to a pattern by acting on it's material appendix (such as your example of throwing a stone). It could also be caused by simple will power (see psychic phenomena that are considered fringe-of-science). A non moving pattern of course is in equilibrium with other patterns, with regard to which it is stationary (such as the gravel rocks on your driveway, they are attracted to earth but are sustained by the rest of the material appendix of that earth pattern, i.e. by the ground underneath). Yes, teleportation should not be too complicated once we have the technology down of how to re-locate a pattern to a distant point, without "pushing it along through space". Here is some of the preceding discussion: Lee wrote: >>>The key word in your statement is moving. The electron beam in the TV is in >>>motion, from its source. Thus anything else, this energy pool so to speak, >>>would also be in motion from its source, and hence there would and should >>>be a source - the sun? >>> >>>All is Motion, the incomprehensible, Dewey Larson. I have three of his >books. >>> Josef wrote: >> >>Yes certainly, motion is the key. >> >>In my view, motion is an illusion, at least it does not happen as we >>imagine it to be, particles traversing space and arriving at a different >>point. >> >>What happens (speculation of course but I am pretty sure) is that matter is >>a temporary change of state of the energy pool, (I have also called it >>space background or a "soup" of potential particles filling all space - the >>aether to be understood by all). >> >>If and when that soup gets touched by an energetic pattern, matter >>'appears'. If and when that pattern "moves" (creeping along inside what we >>call physical space), the material manifestation *appears* to move. What >>however happens in reality, is that the material manifestation is being >>re-created from different particles out of the "pool", each moment of the >>motion. >> >>It is only the pattern that moves. The picture (or the material body) is >>simply re-created at a different spot and motion, as we perceive it, is a >>successive re-creation of the picture (or the material body) in different >>locations along the path of motion. Much more economical than having to >>actually lug pictures around or shove bodies from one place to another. >> Lee wrote: > >So what you are saying is that matter doesn't move, only the pattern moves. >So if I throw a stone, then I'm not throwing a stone, only a pattern? > >And that the universe is merely a giant soup of energy, sitting there, not >moving, not going anywhere? > >However if that pattern moves, then something must be making it move. What >could be causing the movement of patterns? And what about non moving >patterns, like the gravel rocks on my drive way. > >If you are right then we should easily be able to teleport things including >people, it is just a matter of figuring out how to get down a complete >picture (snapshot) of the energy pattern. > >Lee Josef Hasslberger Snail mail address: Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY new e-mail address: sepp@lastrega.com homepage at http://www.lastrega.com/Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 4 08:39:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA12944; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 08:37:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 08:37:34 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 08:38:32 -0700 From: "bob macelvain" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: Copper Magnetic Compression X-Sender-Ip: 209.12.236.135 Organization: MailCity (http://www.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ON4F1.0.AA3.-Ov5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6785 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ... re: meat truck... ... ... ?how, in effect, does your description differ from bill muller's magnetic motor-generator? ... ...bob.... Get your FREE E-mail at http://mailcity.lycos.com Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://personal.lycos.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 4 10:53:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA24005; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 10:52:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 10:52:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199810041754.NAA21203@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: Copper Magnetic Compression Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:06:16 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LUsc73.0._s5.YNx5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6786 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The coils I used were air core, hence the term copper magnetic. I was describing a possible field arrangement to be used in conjunction with the Newman effect... I am not aware of bill mullers motor-generator but would like to take a look if you have any info. H. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net ---------- > From: bob macelvain > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Copper Magnetic Compression > Date: Sunday, October 04, 1998 10:38 AM > > ... re: meat truck... > ... > ... ?how, in effect, does your description differ > from bill muller's magnetic motor-generator? > ... > ...bob.... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 4 11:32:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA05637; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 11:31:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 11:31:04 -0700 Message-ID: <3617C2CD.63E27323@harti.com> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 19:47:41 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Bob Shannon , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Real Newman 2 coil experiment trick !] References: <3616B754.3FEE@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Kwypb.0.dN1.dxx5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6787 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > > See it this way: > > The Newman coil acts as a ON-OFF switchable permanent magnet > > with very small power input only ! > > The mechanical energy you can get out off one cycle can be bigger > > than the inputed electrical energy to switch the Newman coil ON and OFF ! > > > > I have simulated this with Quickfield simulation software > > and it can work, if you design the coil right ! > > > > Regards, Stefan. > > Quickfield is a static simulator. Do you plan to have actual test data > that supports the claim that more mechanical energy can be taken off > than electrical energy put into the coil? > Well, yes, you are right, there is the problem that when the magnet moves it induces a Back EMF, which will weaken the fields and also the force attracting the magnet will be weaker then. One has to find the right magnetic material which does not give too much Back-EMF. > Can you simulate this in a dynamic simulation? I am not yet sure, if I can do this with Quickfield. I have to try the new 4.0 version. I would also have to look around for a true dynamic simulation program , which also offers 3D simulation of magnetic fields. If anybody knows of such a program, please let me know. Thanks. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 4 14:09:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA32137; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 14:05:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 14:05:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 14:07:06 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: "heretic scientists" versus "crackpots" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"91J-a3.0.jr7.bC-5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6788 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Some of the recent discussions reminds me about an important issue. What is the difference between a crackpot versus a "heretic scientist"? Both pursue unconventional, impossible goals. Both are deviants who are excluded from the mainstream, and are disparaged by all reputable researchers. Yet there is a crucial difference. Richard Feynman said it well in "cargo cult science"; his commencement address given at Caltech in 1974. It involves humility, where the good scientists recognize how easily they can fool themselves, and so they ask for criticism, and they do not become defensive when they receive it. It involves profound self-honesty, where good scientists strive to become their own worse critics. Feynman calls it "scientific integrity". It involves cultivating a powerful desire to discover the truth, a desire so strong that it overrides any selfish wishes to see our own ideas proved true. It is what separates the ego-driven crackpots from the scientists both orthodox and "heretic." See below. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L excerpt from CARGO CULT SCIENCE Richard Feynman, 1974 http://www.physics.brocku.ca/etc/cargo_cult_science.html (if you haven't read CARGO CULT SCIENCE in awhile, definitely give it a perusal. It should be required reading for anyone who is involved in any field of "taboo" research.) ...there is one feature I notice that is generally missing in cargo cult science. That is the idea that we all hope you have learned in studying science in school--we never say explicitly what this is, but just hope that you catch on by all the examples of scientific investigation. It is interesting, therefore, to bring it out now and speak of it explicitly. It's a kind of scientific integrity, a principle of scientific thought that corresponds to a kind of utter honesty--a kind of leaning over backwards. For example, if you're doing an experiment, you should report everything that you think might make it invalid--not only what you think is right about it: other causes that could possibly explain your results; and things you thought of that you've eliminated by some other experiment, and how they worked--to make sure the other fellow can tell they have been eliminated. Details that could throw doubt on your interpretation must be given, if you know them. You must do the best you can--if you know anything at all wrong, or possibly wrong--to explain it. If you make a theory, for example, and advertise it, or put it out, then you must also put down all the facts that disagree with it, as well as those that agree with it. There is also a more subtle problem. When you have put a lot of ideas together to make an elaborate theory, you want to make sure, when explaining what it fits, that those things it fits are not just the things that gave you the idea for the theory; but that the finished theory makes something else come out right, in addition. In summary, the idea is to give all of the information to help others to judge the value of your contribution; not just the information that leads to judgement in one particular direction or another. The easiest way to explain this idea is to contrast it, for example, with advertising. Last night I heard that Wesson oil doesn't soak through food. Well, that's true. It's not dishonest; but the thing I'm talking about is not just a matter of not being dishonest; it's a matter of scientific integrity, which is another level. The fact that should be added to that advertising statement is that NO oils soak through food, if operated at a certain temperature. If operated at another temperature, they all will--including Wesson oil. So it's the implication which has been conveyed, not the fact, which is true, and the difference is what we have to deal with. We've learned from experience that the truth will come out. Other experimenters will repeat your experiment and find out whether you were wrong or right. Nature's phenomena will agree or they'll disagree with your theory. And, although you may gain some temporary fame and excitement, you will not gain a good reputation as a scientist if you haven't tried to be very careful in this kind of work. And it's this type of integrity, this kind of care not to fool yourself, that is missing to a large extent in much of the research in cargo cult science. A great deal of their difficulty is, of course, the difficulty of the subject and the inapplicability of the scientific method to the subject. Nevertheless, it should be remarked that this is not the only difficulty. That's why the planes don't land--but they don't land. We have learned a lot from experience about how to handle some of the ways we fool ourselves. One example: Millikan measured the charge on an electron by an experiment with falling oil drops, and got an answer which we now know not to be quite right. It's a little bit off because he had the incorrect value for the viscosity of air. It's interesting to look at the history of measurements of the charge of an electron, after Millikan. If you plot them as a function of time, you find that one is a little bit bigger than Millikan's, and the next one's a little bit bigger than that, and the next one's a little bit bigger than that, until finally they settle down to a number which is higher. Why didn't they discover the new number was higher right away? It's a thing that scientists are ashamed of--this history--because it's apparent that people did things like this: When they got a number that was too high above Millikan's, they thought something must be wrong--and they would look for and find a reason why something might be wrong. When they got a number close to Millikan's value they didn't look so hard. And so they eliminated the numbers that were too far off, and did other things like that. We've learned those tricks nowadays, and now we don't have that kind of a disease. But this long history of learning how to not fool ourselves--of having utter scientific integrity--is, I'm sorry to say, something that we haven't specifically included in any particular course that I know of. We just hope you've caught on by osmosis . The first principle is that you must not fool yourself--and you are the easiest person to fool. So you have to be very careful about that. After you've not fooled yourself, it's easy not to fool other scientists. You just have to be honest in a conventional way after that... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 4 14:18:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA05179; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 14:16:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 14:16:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 14:17:56 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Cold Fusion and New Energy Symposium 1998 (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA05162 Resent-Message-ID: <"vsf5D1.0.qG1.lM-5s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6789 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Forwarded msg, see below ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 4 Oct 98 13:59:27 -0000 From: "E.F. Mallove" Subject: Cold Fusion and New Energy Symposium 1998 COLD FUSION AND NEW ENERGY SYMPOSIUM 1998 Sponsored by Infinite Energy Magazine WHEN: SUNDAY, OCTOBER 11, 1998 € 8:00 a.m. - 10:00 p.m. WHERE: Holiday Inn, The Center of New Hampshire Convention Center Elm Street, Manchester, New Hampshire Call Infinite Energy Magazine for more information: 603-228-4516 Registration fee only $75.00, includes all sessions plus two coffee/refreshment breaks. Chef¹s luncheon and dinner concession available (guest¹s responsibility). At time of printing, the new Fairfield Inn in Concord still had rooms available, 603-224-4011, $139. +tax. Call soon! PROGRAM: Dr. Eugene Mallove (Infinite Energy Magazine) Cold Fusion and New Energy: Science, Technology, and Business Dr. Peter Graneau (Centre for Electromagnetics Research) Lightning Generates MHD Power; The Cause of Thunder Dr. Edmund Storms (Los Alamos National Laboratory, Retired) Chemically Assisted Nuclear Reactions Dr. Paulo Correa (Labofex, Toronto, Canada) Pulsed Abnormal Glow Discharge Reactor: An Update Dr. Daniel Cavicchio (New Energy Partners) Investing in New Energy Technologies Jed Rothwell (Infinite Energy Magazine) Cold Fusion Technology: Comparisons from the History of Technology Mike Carrell (RCA, Retired) The Arata-Zhang Cold Fusion Experiments Dr. Les Case (Fusion Power, Inc.) Update on Catalytic Fusion Dr. Peter Glück (Institute for Isotopic and Molecular Technology) New Sources of Energy: Scale-Up, Problems and Solutions Dr. Thomas Phipps (Author, Heretical Verities) Empirical Evidences of the Failure of the Lorentz Force Law Jeff Kooistra (Physicist, Author, Analog Magazine Columnist) Reaction Forces and the Marinov Motor‹Physical and Social Hal Fox (Trenergy, Inc.) Commercial Development: New Energy and Transmutation Dr. Paul Brown (CEO, Nuclear Solutions, LLC) € The Nuclear Waste Problem ‹Solved by Nuclear Physics € Nuclear Batteries Other - Poster displays and exhibits by other scientists and inventors PLEASE SEND/FAX IN YOUR REGISTRATION BY OCTOBER 8, 1998, if possible. (There *may* be seating for those who show up on October 11th without pre-registration, but space cannot be guaranteed.) Name:______________________________________ Address:____________________________________ Address:____________________________________ City: _______________________________________ State: _________ Zip/Postal Code:_______________ Phone: _____________________________________ Credit Card: MC______ VISA______ AMEX_____ NUMBER::______________________________ Expir. Date:_____/____ Signature: _______________________________ Or, send check for $75.00 via mail. *********************************************** Notice posted by: Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief Infinite Energy Magazine Cold Fusion Technology, Inc. P.O. Box 2816 Concord, NH 03302-2816 Ph: 603-228-4516 Fax: 603-224-5975 editor@infinite-energy.com http://www.infinite-energy.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 4 16:40:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA00014; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:38:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:38:30 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981004043009.00a1d490@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 04:30:09 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery In-Reply-To: <98Oct4.064611-0400_edt.34310380-8164+3@hugin.request.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"JaAH5.0.m_7.pR06s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6791 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Then what about this question: However if that pattern moves, then something must be making it move. What could be causing the interaction of patterns? I don't think my body has an attractive force (I know one person who thinks differently, at least).The astronauts in the space shuttle and MIR wish their bodies did, if anything when they loose their grip on something it seems to go floating away from them. And of all the pictures I've seen of astronauts in space I don't recall seeing any examples of an attractive force, which one would expect, as even the most minute objects float free and if anything seem to be repelled by other objects. Then there was the experiment with fuel in which to their surprise when ignited it broke up into thousands of little balls of fire. A question: Is this concept of patterns moving in a static universe, a derivative in any form of Einstein or is it Plato's. Lee At 06:32 AM 10/4/98 -0400, you wrote: >Exactly. You got the idea. > >Movement of patterns could be caused by interaction between patterns, such >as the pattern of my body and the pattern of planet earth, which have an >attractive force between them. It could be caused by adding directional >energy to a pattern by acting on it's material appendix (such as your >example of throwing a stone). It could also be caused by simple will power >(see psychic phenomena that are considered fringe-of-science). > >A non moving pattern of course is in equilibrium with other patterns, with >regard to which it is stationary (such as the gravel rocks on your >driveway, they are attracted to earth but are sustained by the rest of the >material appendix of that earth pattern, i.e. by the ground underneath). > >Yes, teleportation should not be too complicated once we have the >technology down of how to re-locate a pattern to a distant point, without >"pushing it along through space". > >Here is some of the preceding discussion: >Lee wrote: >>>>The key word in your statement is moving. The electron beam in the TV is in >>>>motion, from its source. Thus anything else, this energy pool so to speak, >>>>would also be in motion from its source, and hence there would and should >>>>be a source - the sun? >>>> >>>>All is Motion, the incomprehensible, Dewey Larson. I have three of his >>books. >>>> >Josef wrote: >>> >>>Yes certainly, motion is the key. >>> >>>In my view, motion is an illusion, at least it does not happen as we >>>imagine it to be, particles traversing space and arriving at a different >>>point. >>> >>>What happens (speculation of course but I am pretty sure) is that matter is >>>a temporary change of state of the energy pool, (I have also called it >>>space background or a "soup" of potential particles filling all space - the >>>aether to be understood by all). >>> >>>If and when that soup gets touched by an energetic pattern, matter >>>'appears'. If and when that pattern "moves" (creeping along inside what we >>>call physical space), the material manifestation *appears* to move. What >>>however happens in reality, is that the material manifestation is being >>>re-created from different particles out of the "pool", each moment of the >>>motion. >>> >>>It is only the pattern that moves. The picture (or the material body) is >>>simply re-created at a different spot and motion, as we perceive it, is a >>>successive re-creation of the picture (or the material body) in different >>>locations along the path of motion. Much more economical than having to >>>actually lug pictures around or shove bodies from one place to another. >>> >Lee wrote: >> >>So what you are saying is that matter doesn't move, only the pattern moves. >>So if I throw a stone, then I'm not throwing a stone, only a pattern? >> >>And that the universe is merely a giant soup of energy, sitting there, not >>moving, not going anywhere? >> >>However if that pattern moves, then something must be making it move. What >>could be causing the movement of patterns? And what about non moving >>patterns, like the gravel rocks on my drive way. >> >>If you are right then we should easily be able to teleport things including >>people, it is just a matter of figuring out how to get down a complete >>picture (snapshot) of the energy pattern. >> >>Lee > >Josef Hasslberger > >Snail mail address: >Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY >new e-mail address: sepp@lastrega.com >homepage at http://www.lastrega.com/Hasslberger > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 4 16:40:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA32605; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:38:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:38:17 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981004033326.00a2c600@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 03:33:26 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Question on magnetic star (off topic) In-Reply-To: <3616CD20.67736E62@GroupZ.net> References: <3614ABC1.46034452@GroupZ.net> <36159961.2227B185@erols.com> <3.0.5.32.19981003004556.00a139d0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"uSjol.0.Jz7.dR06s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6790 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'm glad you inserted the caveat "if" a neutrino has mass. I think it unfortunate that physicists have chosen to believe (because of belief in Einstein) that there are sub atomic particles like neutrino's, neutrons, protons, photon's, etc. This way of conceptualizing the universe is merely nothing more than a more complicated version of Newton's own theory of everything. Newton was a corpuscularean (following on the footsteps of Plato). To him everything, including light, was little corpuscles. It seems we are still dragging that baggage around with us, and perhaps limiting the reach of our knowledge and technical advance. As I posted previously. The Students of Prof A. Micelson, discovered in a mile long evacuated tunnel under the Pasadena Mts (on what is now JPL property) that the speed of light is not constant, but varies and does so (somehow) by the seasons. Therefore, to me the equation E=mc^2 is false, it has to be if light is a variable and not a constant. I am also aware that 1 1/2 miles deep in the Homestead Mine, there is a vat of cleaning fluid and every once in a while something triggers a receptor that makes a flashbulb pop, and that is suppose to prove the existence of neutrino's. But does it really. I know also that I can hit a button on my remote device and change channels. Does that mean there are little corpuscles flying from the remote to the TV? I know that the neutron was a concept created to account for weight. Weight is a concept that has been totally debased by the concept of mass. What gives something weight has never been able to be seperated from the thing that weighs, and thus we accept gravity as a force that gives things weight because gravity is a part of the thing itself (Circular Reasoning). We don't need the proton in the nucleus of the atom, either. Polarity is not necessary because there is no reason to apply the concept that opposites attract (and they don't, not in nature not in people - birds of a feather flock together is more like it). The concept of opposite's attracting, a concept made up to describe the physical behavior of magnets, being applied to an atom is unnecessary and also distracting - it shunts science down a dead end siding. But it hasn't stopped at neutrons and protons, now it is neutrino's and photon's, dark matter, snowflakes, quarks, rainbows, charms, sweets - a whole zoology of sub atomic particles and are we getting any closer to understanding the universe. Are we able to take all of these zoomorphs and translate them into practicalities? I dun think so. Haven't seen anything useful come from this field of metaphysics yet, except to provide script material for StarTrek, StarGate and Babylon 5. I would think that anything which one could call mass is something that one could put in their hands and weigh, or store in a safe place in a jar. When in motion it has "inertia" and that can be measure by the simple equation f=ma or as I prefer f=wa, where w=weight. When Professor Self Absorbed, emerges from the Homestead Mine with a thimble full of neutrino's, then I will believe that there do indeed exist neutrino's. Matter has two propensities. It is either in motion or it is at rest. If it is at rest, it is because something else (that itself is moving) is impeding the progress of its journey. But I can't think of anything that is completely at rest. My chair is sitting on a floor, If I pulled out the floor the chair would continue it's journey towards the source of the attractive force, thus it has a force acting on it all time (giving it weight). However the floor is sitting on a planet that is moving in the following manner. 1. It is rotating 2. It is orbiting the sun 3. It is lagging the sun as the sun moves through the galaxy (revisiting my analysis of Kepler's 2d Law) 4. The Galaxy itself is in motion. Therefore the idea of at rest is only relative. Relative to the observor. To return to the subject. Are radio transmissions made up of little corpuscles? Is EM of a corpuscularean nature? If not, and if not necessary, then why do we think that there are such things as neutrino's and that they have mass? Because that is what Daddy told us? Lee At 09:19 PM 10/3/98 -0400, you wrote: >OK Lee, I'll bite, as I understand mass...it is anything that shows >the property >we call inertia...the more the mass the more the inertia that is shown >at equal >speeds... > >Anything that has mass, as it gets closer and closer to the speed of >light, takes >more and more energy to get it to go faster..(e=mc^2 or >c^=m/e)....therefore to >my way of thinking, anything that has mass will travel slower than the >speed of >light...and if a neutrino has mass, it will arrive later than >x-rays/gamma rays >which, having no mass, travel at speed of light....so my thinking is >that the >six hours was caused by neutrinos having mass... > >Am waiting to be corrected on any of this .....steve > >Lee Markland wrote: >> >> Can you define mass? So that we know what we are calculating? >> >> Did it take 5 or 6 hours for this so called "neutrino" burst to reach >> Earth, meaning it traveled at subliminal speeds? What an emission of >> radiation from a supernova travel at subliminal speeds while the light >> traveled at a higher rate of speed? >> >> Or did it take 5 or 6 hours of chain reaction, after the star went >> supernova, before this radiation we call neutrino's was released? >> >> Are these valid questons? >> >> Lee >> >> At 11:42 PM 10/2/98 -0400, you wrote: >> >Jim...since there were six hours from a relatively close >> >supernova, does that mean. because of the extreme distance of >> >this star we can expect a neutrino burst at some future >> >time.... >> >and can we calculate the mass from this burst when it arrives ??....to >> >verify the estimated mass of neutrino we have now....steve >> > >> >Jim Farrer wrote: >> >> >> >> Dear "sno" >> >> Several years ago, an astronomer returning from lunch at Cerro Tollolo >> >> (sp?) observatory in Chile noticed a star shining where none should be. >> >> He checked, and sure enough, no such bright star should have been there. >> >> Reported it instantly, and is thus the discoverer of a super nova. Due to >> >> his fast notification and our great world wide comm systems, I have read >> >> that the Neutrino detection teams all over the world were able to prepare >> >> for and register the arrival of the neutrino burst some 5 or 6 hours >> >> later. Recently it has been found that one of the three neutron types >> >> carries a very small amount of mass, thus cannot travel at exactly light >> >> speed. The other two types are also expected to be found to posses mass. >> >> Can anyone else verify or correct what I've so hazily recalled? >> >> >> >> Jim Farrer >> >> >> >> sno wrote: >> >> >> >> > Was wondering about the x-rays and gamma rays from the magnetic star >> >> > that arrived >> >> > 27 Sep....I assume that they were traveling at speed of light, are >> >> > there any other >> >> > particles that may have been emitted by this burst, that may arrive at >> >> > a later time ??? >> >> > >> >> > If so, is there any chance that they could reach the earths surface, I >> >> > understand that >> >> > the x-rays and gamma rays were absorbed by the >> >> > atmosphere....thanks...steve opelc >> > >> > >> > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 4 16:54:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA07231; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:52:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:52:20 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981002191646.0086ca10@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 19:16:46 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981003003039.00a11bb0@rockisland.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980930223939.00869410@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19960110071128.00a0d2b0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980930192839.008673e0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981001115528.00a14980@rockisland.com> <199810020519.BAA05618@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"x6y591.0.qm1.qe06s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6792 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:30 AM 10/3/98 -0700, you wrote: > Dear Lee, Thank you for taking the time to set back and think a bit. As far as going too far afield, Please do not in any way limit your speculation as to the nature of things. I suggest the format so that you can do just that but keep you specific questions on topic. Here is an example; We have been talking about energy, and the general topic is free energy. You might ask how does hydrogen store energy? I will go on to answer by describing the loose connection of the valiant bond of the electron and how the energy of that electron is capable of absorbing energy to move to a higher state, reflected in a more distant orbit or faster spin, or both. That would be on topic. Next: You might wonder how much energy a hydrogen atom might be able to hold. Speculative, but not off topic. This may spur you on to ask how much hydrogen there is in the universe. Defiantly, not on topic, but clearly a part of the conversation. This would fall under free forum, open and non specific, but non the less related in some way. It is my hope that I could then deal with your questions in a more clear, manner, of which I would be glad to do! But pleas do not limit you inquires but understand that some questions that you have posed here would take volumes to address, even if I were to give my best effort. This is not to be mean but I have seen you ask what might seem a simple question to you, that actually cross about 7 disciplines of science. Disciplines that would require a lifetime to be conversant let alone become an expert. All I would hope is that you continue to ask questions, but in turn except another, whom might simply and honestly say, "I don't know". So once again I encourage you, ask away. But follow that simple format. On-topic: Speculative: Free forum: All in the same letter, with clear breaks. Best TR Knudtson Well Ted, I'll try to be more compassionate, although on my part I'm fairly >accustomed (and quite inured) to have folk, especially experts and true >believes try to beat up on me. I say try, because I have to permit it for >it to happen - but that is a case of personal psychodynamics - beyond the >scope of this forum. > >I am aware though (painfully ) that I can be testy and frustrating, >especially since I lack credentials in the things in which I speak. >Admittedly a Class A ignoramus. > >But you really do a good job, when you put your mind to it. Your >explanation was definitely clear and succint, easy to follow and very >enjoyable and it is those types of communications I enjoy and learn from. > >A comment if you will permit, however, on "running far afield". I have a >lot of life and work experience, including what one would loosely term a >think tank (I was amongst other things, a military planner). The most >productive planning sessions were those in which we would sit around and >let the mind and the scenario's run far afield. > >Where we screwed up, was in not letting them run far enough afield. I'll >give one example. I don't know if you recall that aborted Iranian Hostage >Rescue Operation during the Carter Administration. Well that situation was >the motivation to create what has become known as Delta Force and finally >the Special Operations Command. > >The planners did not run far afield enough. The overlooked the possibility >that the Navy had 60 and 100 ft refueling hoses available for the Sea >Stallions. And hence a Naval Supply Officer provided 4 100 ft hoses and one >60 ft hose for the refueling operation. > >It was the 60' ft hose that resulted in the Sea Stallion trying to lift off >and reposition itself, kicking up a sand storm, obscuring vision and >resulting in the rotor blades slicing into the C130 "Bladder Bird". > >There's a little critter in the back of my brain that keeps whispering, >that it the expanded imagination and the questioning of orthodoxy that >accounts for human progress. > >Although I will admit I've been on some forums where the "expanded >imagination" gets a little too much for my stomach - as it runs very >heavily into the metaphysical and the circular - real woo woo (New Age Stuff). > >I'm of a very practical frame of mind, and feel that nature is not so >complicated as the human mind tends to make it. Although by complicating >reality we create niches for ourselves, and thus expand our employment >opportunities ..... > >Thanks Again, and I promise that I will try my very best to behave. > >By the way, what's it like having to contend with a female senior citizen >who isn't into trivia, soap opera's, gossip, recipes or chat rooms? > >:) > >Lee Markland > >At 10:39 PM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote: >>At 07:11 AM 1/10/96 -0800, you wrote: >> >>Dear Lee, >> >>Maybe you and I have had some sort of personal breakthrough, so that now we >>can more clearly understand one another. From this point forward, let's >>try to be a little more compassionate with each other. >> >>Yes, I am a teacher. I have a Vocational, teaching credential in theory and >>practical electrical, Junior collage level. >> >>If you like what I had wrote you in our last post, I do encourage you to >>re-examine my other postings, as I had suggested. Not to beat a dead >>horse! (Smile) ref. Below. >> >>In them I open some speculation on this new state of mater and energy, >>Hydroxy. But also cover in simple terms, some of the existing complex >>issues of relativity and inertia. >> >>I do very much encourage the challenging of excepted models of the >>universe, but do caution, that if all is energy as some may surmise, this >>conversation can easily run far afield. >> >>To keep some level of decorum, we may choose to head our letters of with >>specifics, and as speculative points are raised, we may discipline >>ourselves to making a clear break in our posts, then being free to enter >>into conjecture and speculation. It is my hope that in this way others may >>find it easier to follow, and respond to specifics as well as dabble along >>with us in off topic summaries and or curiosities. I will do my best to >>always thoroughly answer and on-topic question, an open option to reserve >>comment on the more speculative issues. >> >>I do not mean to be so dictatorial here, but I would not allow a Willie >>nilly approach to learning in my class, and I feel some basic format and >>discipline is needed here as well. >> >>So, the format would look like this. >> >>On topic: Relevant to the last few posts. >> >>Speculative: With reference to topic. >> >>Free forum: Gee! Have you ever wondered about this, or that?????? >> >>Does this sound workable? On topic, speculative, and free forum. We could >>call it (OSF) format? >> >>Best >> >>TR Knudtson >> >> >>http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/hydroxy.html >> >> >> >> >>>Thank you very much for contributing so eloquently to my education. Great >>>job, by the way. This one is a keeper (i'll save it in text format). You >>>should be a teacher, are you? >>> >>>I do understand some of this and am familiar with the principle of Hydoxy, >>>at least as regards Browns Gas. But this is wonderful stuff. >>> >>>I understand that energy is stored in matter, like plant food, and minerals >>>and that it can be converted through some action, like a catalyst, to >>>energy. And that all matter is merely "bound" energy (does that sound >>>correct?) >>> >>>It is just that when I get into that region known as space, where there >>>"appears" to be nothing more than a void, except for the lines of force >>>like gravity and "other" EM transmission, that I enounter a difficulty with >>>"stored" energy or a medium, like a sugar cube or a pool of oil. >>> >>>However space is definitely, not empty, since as you and others have >>>pointed out there is a tremendous amount of energy constantly transitting >>>space (and our own bodies, and the planet itself). The question then seems >>>to me, the ability to tap this transient energy and convert it into a form >>>that we can use. >>> >>>I guess that kind of makes the term free energy, an oxymoron (not my >>>intention). >>> >>>I would wonder if there is a region in our galaxy or any galaxy in which >>>there is no energy, transiting - a void in other words. >>> >>>When I look in the sky I see little spots of light. Light emitted from far >>>off stars, and although much diminished by their expansion from the source, >>>these little points of light represent little points of energy. Which it >>>seems would have the possibility, given the knowledge and tools, to be >>>captured, used and converted to a useable form. >>> >>>Much like radio frequencies can be used to open car doors, garage doors or >>>guide airplanes. >>> >>>But it seems there are no "pools" of static or stagnant energy just lying >>>around. Instead this energy is in constant motion, moving from its source >>>and expanding outwards in a sphere and diminishing in strength as it does >so. >>> >>>Does that make sense? >>> >>>:) >>> >>>Thanks very much for your time and kind explanation, as I said this is a >>>keeper. >>> >>>Lee >>> >>>At 07:28 PM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>>Dear Lee >>>> >>>>Electrolyses has been around for more than a Century and a half. Faraday, >>>>1833 to be exact. Off the top of my head I can not remember the mans name, >>>>but a contemporary of Faraday, then went on to show that you can recover >>>>electricity from the gasses hydrogen and oxygen, 1840 or so. In essence >>>>this presents itself as a closed loop energy system. Until our work, this >>>>is where the research stayed, the recombining of gasses to produce >>>>electricity is the foundation of Fuel Cell technology. Fuel cell >>>>technology, was further developed in the 50s and 60s to provide reliable DC >>>>power for spacecraft. The nice part of this process it that after the >>>>electricity is recovered the gasses recombine to form pure water. If you >>>>look at Fuel cell, as a source of power of spacecraft, you get two >>>>benefits, electricity and clean water, from stored liquid hydrogen and >>>oxygen. >>>> >>>>All of science has looked for a medium of exchange in energy. This quest if >>>>you will, is central to Einstein's work to discover what is known as, the >>>>grand unified field theory. For more than a century scientists have felt >>>>that there must be some universality to energy, in that you can convert >>>>back and forth in manifest forms. Like with inertia, or "Kinetic" energy. >>>>Take your car going down the road at high speed, slam on the breaks and the >>>>tires get hot enough to smoke. Inertia converted to heat! Electricity >>>>seems to posses the most convertibility. Inertia or more generally >>>>"mechanical" to drive a conductor ( a coil) in a field. Then all sorts of >>>>things can come from this, light, heat, mechanical, radio, even >>>>radioactive, in that the common x-ray tube is an electrical device. This >>>>general convertibility of all forms of manifest energy is what led them to >>>>look for a medium of exchange, a potential energy that all energies had in >>>>common. >>>> >>>>Nature has been doing this conversion forever. Through photosynthesis, >>>>Chloroplasts, the cells in plants that convert light energy, take water and >>>>divide it by bonding Hydrogen to carbon. The excess oxygen they give up to >>>>the air, enriching our atmosphere. The carbon they get from >>>>carbon-dioxide, direct from the atmosphere, a result of volcanism in the >>>>earth's core. >>>> >>>>You have heard of us, "Humans" described as "carbon based life forms"? >>>>Well, carbon may be the building block of all life, but surly hydrogen is >>>>the "cement" then in this analogy. The plants busily convert water into >>>>what are called "Sacarides", basically sugars, but they do not stop there. >>>>They continue on to build themselves out of this stuff by using oxygen, >>>>once again to form linking chains, that the fiber and tubular structures >>>>that stalks and leaves are made of. This linking is made by the Hydroxyl >>>>bond. Hence the name for the gas that I speak of, Hydroxy. >>>> >>>>The structure of sugar and starch are similar and can loosely be described >>>>as simple and complex, carbo-hydrates. There are those words again "Carbo" >>>>or carbon, and Hydro or hydrogen. These Carbohydrates are what we use to >>>>gain energy for our life sustaining force. If we eat meat we are still >>>>using this energy, just second hand, as stored in the protein structures of >>>>the meat. This protein structure is called a Polypeptide bond, also >>>>hydroxyl in nature. So you and all lining animal life are dependent on >>>>Hydroxy for the stuff that makes you. Now, it does not end there. >>>> >>>>You are no reading these words, and your mind is using electricity in a way >>>>that allows for though. This is a highly developed electrical process. We >>>>know much about this, but we may still have a wonderment as to where the >>>>little electrical generator is that generates all those little sparks in >>>>our brains. Well guess what? It turns out that the sugar, remember, bonded >>>>carbon and hydrogen, is once again very important in this process. In our >>>>brain cells, there are little chambers that allow for a controlled reaction >>>>of the hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen for this reaction comes from the >>>>sugar, and the oxygen comes from the air we breath. >>>> >>>>Now remember, the air was enriched with the oxygen left over when plants >>>>made sugars from carbon by breaking down water, and also to make their >>>>stalks, seeds, and leaves. We, breath in this oxygen, and it is >>>>transferred to our blood. The blood then carries the oxygen to the cells. >>>> >>>>Our brain cells, then use hydrogen and oxygen to make the electricity that >>>>fires the circuitry of our brain. This also is similar to the functioning >>>>of our muscles. The result is the tell tail of the reaction, that being >>>>pure water and a discharge of extra oxygen and carbon, in the form of >>>>carbon dioxide, the main gas, we breath out. And wouldn't you know it, >>>>that is exactly what the trees and plants need to start the process all >>>>over again. >>>> >>>>So, now for review. >>>> >>>>All energy in the world of living things is dependent on hydrogen and >>>>oxygen. >>>> >>>>Carbon is used to separate these materials, Hydrogen and oxygen, when >>>>charged with energy and to form the building blocks for all living >>>>structures. >>>> >>>>Hydroxyl bonds, help in forming the more complex structures of proteins. >>>> >>>>Proteins are the most primitive structure of all life, which are in >>>>essence, Hydroxyl bonds of carbon. >>>> >>>>Electricity, that is needed to order and facilitate thought, is a result of >>>>a hydroxyl reaction. >>>> >>>>So the energy of all life is dependent on the manipulation of two elements, >>>>hydrogen and oxygen. >>>> >>>>The study of a specific ratio of these elements then is of value not only >>>>as a study of energy, but as well as the study of all life. >>>> >>>>To learn the nature of energy and how it can be used, stored and converted, >>>>is a significant part of science. >>>> >>>>The discovery, testing, evaluating, measuring and capturing of this life >>>>force energy is then of value to all of science. >>>> >>>>But as a battery, I think that is only one aspect of this research, but >>>>yes, a battery like thing. But I may draw another analogy as to why I have >>>>some problem with just looking at this, Hydroxy technology, as only a >>>>battery thing. In the more, broad context, a tree could be looked upon as >>>>a battery thing, in that it captures and holds energy, that we can regain >>>>as heat and light, as we burn logs in a fireplace on cold withers nights. >>>> >>>>I also have great reluctance to identify Hydroxy only in biologic terms, as >>>>it is the mechanical sciences that I feel will most benefit. >>>> >>>>I do not also want to classify it as a providenceof only a practical >>>>science technology, because it redefines many of the perimeters here to >>>>held as absolute by theoretic physics. >>>> >>>>But I hope now that you might see that I was not being vague, but rather >>>>looking for you to formulate a more appropriate question. >>>> >>>>Best regards. >>>> >>>>TR Knudtson >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>At 11:55 AM 10/1/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>>>13 thousands what? Permissible? >>>>> >>>>>Lee >>>>> >>>>>At 05:26 PM 10/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>>>>13 thousandths might be permissable. >>>>>> >>>>>>---------- >>>>>>> From: Lee Markland >>>>>>> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>>>>>> Subject: Wisdom and knowledge >>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 8:15 PM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I mentioned this once before. But a very astute and credential >scientist >>>>>>> once told me that if a person truly understood what it is they are >>>>>>talking >>>>>>> about, they could explain it in plain language understandable to a >>>>>>student >>>>>>> in the 6th grade. Meaning no appeal to jargon or authority. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So I immediately asked him for a plain language explanation of the >>>>>>> methodology used by astronomers and physicists to obtain the value that >>>>>>is >>>>>>> given for the mass of the moon (.0129 that of Earth). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Would you believe that he couldn't do such a simple thing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So I had to do volumes of research to come up with my own answer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've thrown the question to a number of self styled experts, only to be >>>>>>met >>>>>>> with evasions, attempts at changing the subject, (including making me >>the >>>>>>> subject). I've received two answers both of them incomprehensible to a >>>>>>6th >>>>>>> grader. One of them outrageously long, telling me to tell the students >>>>>>how >>>>>>> much of a genius Newton was, and then later telling me to lie to >>them, so >>>>>>> as not to confuse them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I even had a noted astronomer admit that he lies to first year physics >>>>>>> students "for their own good", so as not to confuse them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's really simple though, two paragraphs, three at most, and the >>>>>>> embarassing thing (at least embarassing if one has integrityand is >>>>>>> perceptive) is that the word assumption has to be used a number of >>times. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't think, however, that I would like to spring it on a 6th grader, >>>>>>for >>>>>>> they are still perceptive enough at that age, to notice flaws and ask >>>>>>> embarrassing questions, which can only be answered by calling on >>>>>>authority >>>>>>> or telling them to do some research, or the coup de grace - attempt to >>>>>>> embarass them in public, by denigration and innuendo. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lee >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 4 16:57:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA07889; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:53:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:53:56 -0700 Message-ID: <36180854.8654F3EC@itn.cl> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 19:44:20 -0400 From: Felix Meyer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Question on magnetic star (off topic) References: <3614ABC1.46034452@GroupZ.net> <36159961.2227B185@erols.com> <3.0.5.32.19981003004556.00a139d0@rockisland.com> <3616CD20.67736E62@GroupZ.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"o96kw1.0.Ax1.Jg06s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6793 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: sno schrieb: > snip > more and more energy to get it to go faster..(e=mc^2 or > c^=m/e)....therefore to > my way of thinking, why not c x c = e/m ??? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 4 17:22:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA18302; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:20:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:20:22 -0700 Message-ID: <3618117D.8817BB2@GroupZ.net> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 20:23:25 -0400 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Lee Markland Subject: Re: Question on magnetic star (off topic) References: <3614ABC1.46034452@GroupZ.net> <36159961.2227B185@erols.com> <3.0.5.32.19981003004556.00a139d0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19981004033326.00a2c600@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EViC_1.0.jT4.4316s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6794 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee - glad you agree that anything with inertia also is called "having mass"...I think we agree such things as radio waves, light waves, x=rays, etc., all do not have inertia...therefore they do not have mass...my question was, and is, are there any other things from this event that may reach the earth at a later time...I am assuming that these "things" would have mass, and for that reason arrive later....one of the possibilities that was brought up was neutrino's, if these particles exist, and if they have mass they may arrive at a later time...my further question was then, if they arrive, could we tell the weight of them...based on difference from the arrival of the x-rays/gamma rays to the time of the neutrino's ...so this is where we are now, I think ...hope this statement meets with your approval ...thanks for your reply....steve Lee Markland wrote: > > I'm glad you inserted the caveat "if" a neutrino has mass. I think > it > unfortunate that physicists have chosen to believe (because of > belief in > Einstein) that there are sub atomic particles like neutrino's, > neutrons, > protons, photon's, etc. > > This way of conceptualizing the universe is merely nothing more than > a more > complicated version of Newton's own theory of everything. > > Newton was a corpuscularean (following on the footsteps of Plato). > To him > everything, including light, was little corpuscles. It seems we are > still > dragging that baggage around with us, and perhaps limiting the reach > of our > knowledge and technical advance. > > As I posted previously. The Students of Prof A. Micelson, discovered > in a > mile long evacuated tunnel under the Pasadena Mts (on what is now > JPL > property) that the speed of light is not constant, but varies and > does so > (somehow) by the seasons. Therefore, to me the equation E=mc^2 is > false, it > has to be if light is a variable and not a constant. > > I am also aware that 1 1/2 miles deep in the Homestead Mine, there > is a vat > of cleaning fluid and every once in a while something triggers a > receptor > that makes a flashbulb pop, and that is suppose to prove the > existence of > neutrino's. But does it really. > > I know also that I can hit a button on my remote device and change > channels. Does that mean there are little corpuscles flying from the > remote > to the TV? > > I know that the neutron was a concept created to account for weight. > Weight > is a concept that has been totally debased by the concept of mass. > What > gives something weight has never been able to be seperated from the > thing > that weighs, and thus we accept gravity as a force that gives things > weight > because gravity is a part of the thing itself (Circular Reasoning). > We don't need the proton in the nucleus of the atom, either. > Polarity is > not necessary because there is no reason to apply the concept that > opposites attract (and they don't, not in nature not in people - > birds of a > feather flock together is more like it). > The concept of opposite's attracting, a concept made up to describe > the > physical behavior of magnets, being applied to an atom is > unnecessary and > also distracting - it shunts science down a dead end siding. > > But it hasn't stopped at neutrons and protons, now it is neutrino's > and > photon's, dark matter, snowflakes, quarks, rainbows, charms, sweets > - a > whole zoology of sub atomic particles and are we getting any closer > to > understanding the universe. Are we able to take all of these > zoomorphs and > translate them into practicalities? > > I dun think so. Haven't seen anything useful come from this field of > metaphysics yet, except to provide script material for StarTrek, > StarGate > and Babylon 5. > > I would think that anything which one could call mass is something > that one > could put in their hands and weigh, or store in a safe place in a > jar. When > in motion it has "inertia" and that can be measure by the simple > equation > f=ma or as I prefer f=wa, where w=weight. > When Professor Self Absorbed, emerges from the Homestead Mine with > a > thimble full of neutrino's, then I will believe that there do indeed > exist > neutrino's. > > Matter has two propensities. It is either in motion or it is at > rest. If it > is at rest, it is because something else (that itself is moving) is > impeding the progress of its journey. > > But I can't think of anything that is completely at rest. My chair > is > sitting on a floor, If I pulled out the floor the chair would > continue it's > journey towards the source of the attractive force, thus it has a > force > acting on it all time (giving it weight). However the floor is > sitting on a > planet that is moving in the following manner. > > 1. It is rotating > 2. It is orbiting the sun > 3. It is lagging the sun as the sun moves through the galaxy > (revisiting my > analysis of Kepler's 2d Law) > 4. The Galaxy itself is in motion. > > Therefore the idea of at rest is only relative. Relative to the > observor. > > To return to the subject. Are radio transmissions made up of little > corpuscles? Is EM of a corpuscularean nature? If not, and if not > necessary, > then why do we think that there are such things as neutrino's and > that they > have mass? > > Because that is what Daddy told us? > > Lee > > At 09:19 PM 10/3/98 -0400, you wrote: > >OK Lee, I'll bite, as I understand mass...it is anything that shows > >the property > >we call inertia...the more the mass the more the inertia that is > shown > >at equal > >speeds... > > > >Anything that has mass, as it gets closer and closer to the speed > of > >light, takes > >more and more energy to get it to go faster..(e=mc^2 or > >c^=m/e)....therefore to > >my way of thinking, anything that has mass will travel slower than > the > >speed of > >light...and if a neutrino has mass, it will arrive later than > >x-rays/gamma rays > >which, having no mass, travel at speed of light....so my thinking > is > >that the > >six hours was caused by neutrinos having mass... > > > >Am waiting to be corrected on any of this .....steve > > > >Lee Markland wrote: > >> > >> Can you define mass? So that we know what we are calculating? > >> > >> Did it take 5 or 6 hours for this so called "neutrino" burst to > reach > >> Earth, meaning it traveled at subliminal speeds? What an emission > of > >> radiation from a supernova travel at subliminal speeds while the > light > >> traveled at a higher rate of speed? > >> > >> Or did it take 5 or 6 hours of chain reaction, after the star > went > >> supernova, before this radiation we call neutrino's was released? > >> > >> Are these valid questons? > >> > >> Lee > >> > >> At 11:42 PM 10/2/98 -0400, you wrote: > >> >Jim...since there were six hours from a relatively close > >> >supernova, does that mean. because of the extreme distance of > >> >this star we can expect a neutrino burst at some future > >> >time.... > >> >and can we calculate the mass from this burst when it arrives > ??....to > >> >verify the estimated mass of neutrino we have now....steve > >> > > >> >Jim Farrer wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Dear "sno" > >> >> Several years ago, an astronomer returning from lunch at Cerro > Tollolo > >> >> (sp?) observatory in Chile noticed a star shining where none > should be. > >> >> He checked, and sure enough, no such bright star should have > been there. > >> >> Reported it instantly, and is thus the discoverer of a super > nova. > Due to > >> >> his fast notification and our great world wide comm systems, I > have read > >> >> that the Neutrino detection teams all over the world were able > to > prepare > >> >> for and register the arrival of the neutrino burst some 5 or 6 > hours > >> >> later. Recently it has been found that one of the three > neutron types > >> >> carries a very small amount of mass, thus cannot travel at > exactly light > >> >> speed. The other two types are also expected to be found to > posses > mass. > >> >> Can anyone else verify or correct what I've so hazily > recalled? > >> >> > >> >> Jim Farrer > >> >> > >> >> sno wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > Was wondering about the x-rays and gamma rays from the > magnetic star > >> >> > that arrived > >> >> > 27 Sep....I assume that they were traveling at speed of > light, are > >> >> > there any other > >> >> > particles that may have been emitted by this burst, that may > arrive at > >> >> > a later time ??? > >> >> > > >> >> > If so, is there any chance that they could reach the earths > surface, I > >> >> > understand that > >> >> > the x-rays and gamma rays were absorbed by the > >> >> > atmosphere....thanks...steve opelc > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 4 17:26:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA20432; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:24:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:24:45 -0700 Message-ID: <3618128B.89DDD190@GroupZ.net> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 20:27:56 -0400 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Felix Meyer Subject: Re: Question on magnetic star (off topic) References: <3614ABC1.46034452@GroupZ.net> <36159961.2227B185@erols.com> <3.0.5.32.19981003004556.00a139d0@rockisland.com> <3616CD20.67736E62@GroupZ.net> <36180854.8654F3EC@itn.cl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kNEuS2.0.0_4.D716s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6795 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Felix your right...should have been c^2=m/e... c x c would have been easier....thanks....steve Felix Meyer wrote: > > sno schrieb: > > snip > > > more and more energy to get it to go faster..(e=mc^2 or > > c^=m/e)....therefore to > > my way of thinking, > > why not c x c = e/m > > ??? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 4 18:06:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA30665; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:04:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:04:16 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 18:05:18 -0700 From: "bob macelvain" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery X-Sender-Ip: 209.12.236.210 Organization: MailCity (http://www.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eYlRj.0._U7.Fi16s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6796 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ...lee... ... ...a little closer to home... ... ... ?question? ... ... ?where (approximately, within a thousand miles) is the center-of-gravity of the planet earth? ... ... ...thanks... ... ...bob... Get your FREE E-mail at http://mailcity.lycos.com Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://personal.lycos.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 4 18:09:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA31462; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:06:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:06:33 -0700 Message-ID: <0b4e01bdeffc$30a41a60$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 21:04:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"_Wa--.0.Wh7.Pk16s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6797 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >question to you, that actually cross about 7 disciplines of science. >Disciplines that would require a lifetime to be conversant let alone become >an expert. So is our time best spent trying to teach each new generation things that took great minds a whole lifetime (say 70 years) to learn and discover, or better ways of keeping already educated and bright people alive longer? I wonder where science would be at today if all the possible energy and time we have invested into many disciplines - say astronomy, meterology, geology- had been invested into life extension, if einstien and newton were still alive today do you think mathematical science would have been advanced or slowed? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 4 18:22:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA03081; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:21:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:21:04 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19981005012200.006efcac@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 21:22:00 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: Light generation Resent-Message-ID: <"sbik-3.0.-l._x16s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6798 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:38 AM 10/3/98 -0700, you wrote: >If you don't mind the interdiction of a dilletante - I don't see why not. >Since Light is part of the EM spectrum why not create light with a >summation of frequencies. > >Lee > > >At 11:03 PM 10/2/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Could we use this summation effect of frequencies to produce columns of >>light? What would the effeciency be compared to current lighting systems? >> >>http://www.atcsd.com/HTML/whitepaper.html >> Tesla and Stubblefield both were said to have created light from no apparent source. How was this done? Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 4 20:24:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA10534; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 20:18:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 20:18:16 -0700 Message-ID: <0b9301bdf00e$8d611480$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Light generation Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 23:10:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"lAEzs2.0.Sa2.rf36s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6799 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Who on the list has some equipment to test this out? >At 12:38 AM 10/3/98 -0700, you wrote: >>If you don't mind the interdiction of a dilletante - I don't see why not. >>Since Light is part of the EM spectrum why not create light with a >>summation of frequencies. >> >>Lee >> >> >>At 11:03 PM 10/2/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>Could we use this summation effect of frequencies to produce columns of >>>light? What would the effeciency be compared to current lighting systems? >>> >>>http://www.atcsd.com/HTML/whitepaper.html >>> > > Tesla and Stubblefield both were said to have created light from no >apparent source. How was this done? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 4 20:31:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA16569; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 20:29:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 20:29:38 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: How 'FREE-ENERGY' is implicated in CONVENTIONAL ELECTRODYNAMICS!!!!! Re: th] Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 03:30:56 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <361d3b4d.12870047@mail-hub> References: <3612958F.B65A68EA@ihug.co.nz> In-Reply-To: <3612958F.B65A68EA@ihug.co.nz> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"51nZC2.0.n24.Xq36s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6800 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:33:20 -0700, John Berry wrote: >Look at the attached .gif and tell me what part is wrong, Is the magnetic Because you describe an accelerating particle, what you have depicted is the first part of the Poynting derivation. Usually the first particle is subjected to alternating positive and negative accelerations, which result in it radiating energy through the fields. (Note the electric and magnetic field vectors perpendicular to one another). This energy is then absorbed by other charges, and does indeed result in those charges being accelerated along the same line as the initial charge (though with a time lag due to the speed of light). However I'm afraid my physics isn't good enough to tell you what happens when the first charge is subjected to continuous rather than alternating acceleration (i.e. always in the same direction). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 4 20:49:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA21160; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 20:47:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 20:47:40 -0700 Message-ID: <36195A83.675B@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 16:47:15 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge References: <3.0.5.32.19980930223939.00869410@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19960110071128.00a0d2b0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980930192839.008673e0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981001115528.00a14980@rockisland.com> <199810020519.BAA05618@fh102.infi.net> <3.0.5.32.19981002191646.0086ca10@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rq3Lj2.0.YA5.S546s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6801 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: trknute@earthlink.net wrote: > > Here is an example; > > We have been talking about energy, and the general topic is free energy. > > You might ask how does hydrogen store energy? > > I will go on to answer by describing the loose connection of the valiant > bond of the electron and how the energy of that electron is capable of > absorbing energy to move to a higher state, reflected in a more distant > orbit or faster spin, or both. > > That would be on topic. > If Lee doesn't respond to that invitation, I for one would be more than delighted if you could discuss such a question further. I've been very quiet on this subject until now, because I'm so appallingly illiterate about such things. However, I have read all of your posts since February with great interest TRK, and the on-line information you referred to recently. You say in your post that hydrogen stores energy. You also say (elsewhere) that : Electricity + water => Browns' Gas and Browns' Gas + ignition => Electricity + water Question: If this is so, is the 'energy' that is stored somehow in the hydrogen, 'Electrical' energy, in essence? That is, are you saying it is something completely different in nature to the conventional electrical (electron/charge carrier) current that was discharged by an electrical source to disassociate the water in the first place, but somehow inherent in that current. And also disassociated from it by this action, to be stored as 'energy' in the hydrogen - and therefore also containing almost the same potential energy that was discharged from the source in the first place? You can see where that might lead? If the answer is in the affirmative, then would you describe this "Energy" as 'material' in a physical, atomic sense, or 'substantial', as in a particulate but non-atomic (or "aetheric") form ? I ask for your view on this, because so much of what you describe has a very close parallel to the explanations of John Keely at the turn of the century. In his case however, he used sound to disassociate water. But then he also made the comment that "......sound, like odour, is a real substance of unknown and wonderful tenuity, emanating from a body where it has been induced by percussion and throwing out absolute corpuscles of matter, inter-atomic particles, with velocity of 1,120 feet per second;......... etc., etc." In which case, what happens, (i.e. what form of energy storage would occur in the gasses), if the disassociation of H2O was done with sound? Are you inferring 'pre-emergent' matter, i.e. as a 'substance' we perceive as 'pure energy' (or as you call it PNE)? I have a much more critical question to ask depending on your answers, but I'll hold my tongue for now. Regards, Stuart -- ============================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 4 21:49:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA06292; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 21:42:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 21:42:28 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981004193731.00d68d64@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:37:31 -0700 To: Jim From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: How magnets work for health Cc: Alan.CHEAH@adecco.com, ahannan@MIT.EDU, deadnuts@deadnuts.com, lupem@world.std.com, peg@wintergreen.com, bso@acm.org, DaleSVP@ipa.net, dtassen@c-zone.net, sweetser@world.std.com, clsmith@darwin.bu.edu, ccantor@sequenom.com, 76753.3551@CompuServe.COM, eben@ergeng.com, ehill@world.std.com, leep@world.std.com, ejp@world.std.com, wordpros@inforamp.net, moy@ziplink.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, gjcheah@guybutler.com, wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu, hic@world.std.com, jkokor@alum.mit.edu, Jim Hile , jim@msri.org, discjt@servtech.com, John Ranta , jsearl@tako.demon.co.uk, joshprokop@worldnet.att.net, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, Leonard Dvorson , cadman@mediaone.net, leep@world.std.com, ohl@world.std.com, pgm@world.std.com, rsmith@itiip.com, raddison@world.std.com, 71022.3001@CompuServe.COM, 73577.123@CompuServe.COM, tesla@pupman.com, thiahadge@aol.com, tcapizzi@world.std.com, tom.duff@poweroasis.com, TAFAUL@aol.com, vortex-L@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"IiO3h1.0.0Y1.pu46s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6802 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Possible explainations for your decrease in energy when experiencing changing magnetic fields: 1. Electroporation - well documented reaction of increase in cell membrane permiability when same is exposed to electric/magnetic fields. If toxins are released (a good thing for you in the long run) from cells due to electroporation, uncomfortable side effects result. 2. Negative electric and magnetic fields (North pole is negative field - South pole of compass needle points to this field) are a contracting energy which has a calming effect. The positive electric and magnetic fields are an expanding energy which has an energizing effect. An aquaintance who runs for exercise noticed that he goes alot further in distance when following electric powerlines on hilly terrain. The undulations cause variations in the distance to the cables thus constantly changing the local magnetic field intensity. When my cat (The Kitty) first got diabetes (she started drinking twice as much water and pissed all over the place), I brought her to a vet who prescribed insulin shots. I later learned that diabetes may be caused by a calcium build up in cell membranes that restricts glucose absorbtion and/or insulin release. I feed her magnesium, methylsulphonalmethane (MSM) with vitamin C, and made a North pole facing magnet plate (150 ceramic8 disc magnets glued down with North Pole up) that went under her bedding. The three above mentioned therapies all aid in releasing the trapped calcium from the cell walls and allowed proper glucose metabolism to resume. It has been 5 months since we stopped the insulin shots. The Kitty is doing fine because the symptoms subsided on the first week of this unconventional treatment and have not returned. We stopped the insulin shots on that first week also because it looked like The Kitty was starting to hate us for doing that. I told the vet about these events and showed her the research papers I found. The vet couldn't believe any of it and she still thinks diabetes is a permanent condition after its' onset has begun. She still insists that we must immediately resume administering the insulin shots to The Kitty. Dennis At 01:12 PM 10/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >Health and spinning magnets: >I (personally) notice a drastic decrease in energy when I play with my >non shielded motors. I am at the point that I need to shield the magnets >I work with. >I have been warned about this in the past and now I can feel the >effects. > >Jim > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > To leave this list, email > with the body text: leave keelynet > WWW based join and leave forms and KeelyNet list archives > are at http://dallastexas.net/keelynet/ > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 5 03:04:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA32233; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 03:01:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 03:01:40 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981003062752.0086d760@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 06:27:52 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <36195A83.675B@mlb.planet.gen.nz> References: <3.0.5.32.19980930223939.00869410@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19960110071128.00a0d2b0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980930192839.008673e0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981001115528.00a14980@rockisland.com> <199810020519.BAA05618@fh102.infi.net> <3.0.5.32.19981002191646.0086ca10@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Svfph.0.Zt7.4a96s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6803 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:47 PM 10/5/98 -0700, you wrote: >trknute@earthlink.net wrote: > >> Dear Stuart. It is the case that the true discover of Hydroxy, Browns' gas is in question. The patents that were filed by Brown reference the original work of Dr. William Rhodes. I have been in touch with Rhodes and feel that he may be the true originator of this work. Non the less Brown should be clearly accredited with bring this technology to the near mainstream of science. Certainly the practical application of the welding units produced in Australia and later China by Norinco, has set his work well to be identified as the father of this technology. All of this is only to make the point that this technology is less than 30 years in the knowledge of man. That is a very short time, with regard to the overall development curve of any technology. What I am saying about all forms of stored energy known to man, is that the two elements of Hydrogen and oxygen are all that are needed to suspend energy. All other involvement's of any element is purely superfluous, and in many ways retardant to the energy in reaction. There are many types of systems of disassociation of water. Micro-wave, direct current, photo excitation, and I would also be encouraged to look for this also with sound. If what has been indicated, that water is the medium of this energy suspension, and the nature of that energy is in some ways or all common to all manifest forms of energy. Than yes I see no reason that this Pure Non-manifest Energy, would not support excitation by sound. But you must be clear on one main point. Hydrogen is not the only component to energy. Combustion, requires oxygen. Whether it is the fuel cell research that is done by the Ballard company in Canada for their busses, or your car running down the road on petrol, or the crackling of your logs in the fireplace. All require the second hidden half if this equation. The key point of Hydroxy technology, is that it contains both essentials in a perfect ratio. Nature, when producing the suspension has charged both halves of the energy potential in bio-mass sourced energies. The oxygen set free to the atmosphere, and the hydrogen bonded Carbon, to break it's natural affinity with oxygen. The electrical nature of Hydroxy. Lee, may have hit upon the most clear choice, that of a type of static electricity. This seemed to me early on to be a simple solution as well. But, this gets into the discussions with George Wiseman. George being most familiar with conventional combustion of hydrocarbon fuels, insisted that there must be a need for heat to break the diatomic bonds that he dogmatically held must exist. We were not able to conduct the experiment that settled this issue during the short time that we had together, that of filling a column of size with the gas. The gas does not stratify. The other issue that points to the homogeneous nature of the gas is the high detonation rates. About Mach 7.5 at ambient pressure. The third issue that clinched it for me was the heat potentials of the gas, cool at ambient, the boiling point of water, yet able to sublimate tungsten, 5928 C. All of these tests suggest to me a state referred to as free radical state, and much more reflective of the plasma like reaction when combusted in a vacuum. I might point out to Lee, if she reads this, that if it is shown that static electricity burns, she should get out her best gown, for her appearance at her receipt of the Nobel prize. In disagreement with Wiseman, who claims H2O2 as the chemical makeup of the gas, I put forward a matrix of free radical in energy-suspension of more accurately, H, H, O. The question still remains can mater assume an un-bonded state as I describe. This also would account high volume quantities of Hydroxy, in that its specific gravity is .0335. half that of pure hydrogen. What ever the nature of this energy or its source, this is the first known example of a suspension of energy that points out clearly that, ENERGY OCCUPIES SPACE. That final statement is where I get the most flack from conventional academics. Let there be no mistake about it, TR Knudtson says that energy occupies space. Does this head down the road to a new understanding of aetheric energy? Have we captured the aether in a bottle? From that can we begin to measure, identify, quantify, pure energy for the first time? From these humble beginnings are we to learn how to directly manipulate pure nonpolluting energy. I will go one bold step further, for those of you who are working directly with this technology. Subject the Hydroxy flame to the flame of a candle. Just bring it close and record the amplitude of the sound. You will hear a tearing, wrenching sound of truly unusual force. Why? I ask you all, who have these units. Why? Do a comparative study of an oxy-acetylene tip of the same force directed at a candle flame. If it is nothing more than a Hydrogen flame, why does this simple test generate that terrible noise? Best TR Kudtson >> Here is an example; >> >> We have been talking about energy, and the general topic is free energy. >> >> You might ask how does hydrogen store energy? >> >> I will go on to answer by describing the loose connection of the valiant >> bond of the electron and how the energy of that electron is capable of >> absorbing energy to move to a higher state, reflected in a more distant >> orbit or faster spin, or both. >> >> That would be on topic. >> > >If Lee doesn't respond to that invitation, I for one would be more than >delighted if you could discuss such a question further. I've been very quiet >on this subject until now, because I'm so appallingly illiterate about such >things. > >However, I have read all of your posts since February with great interest >TRK, and the on-line information you referred to recently. > >You say in your post that hydrogen stores energy. >You also say (elsewhere) that : > >Electricity + water => Browns' Gas >and >Browns' Gas + ignition => Electricity + water > >Question: > >If this is so, is the 'energy' that is stored somehow in the hydrogen, >'Electrical' energy, in essence? > >That is, are you saying it is something completely different in nature to the >conventional electrical (electron/charge carrier) current that was discharged >by an electrical source to disassociate the water in the first place, but >somehow inherent in that current. And also disassociated from it by this >action, to be stored as 'energy' in the hydrogen - and therefore also >containing almost the same potential energy that was discharged from the >source in the first place? > >You can see where that might lead? > >If the answer is in the affirmative, then would you describe this "Energy" as >'material' in a physical, atomic sense, or 'substantial', as in a particulate >but non-atomic (or "aetheric") form ? > >I ask for your view on this, because so much of what you describe has a very >close parallel to the explanations of John Keely at the turn of the century. >In his case however, he used sound to disassociate water. > >But then he also made the comment that "......sound, like odour, is a real >substance of unknown and wonderful tenuity, emanating from a body where it >has been induced by percussion and throwing out absolute corpuscles of >matter, inter-atomic particles, with velocity of 1,120 feet per >second;......... etc., etc." > >In which case, what happens, (i.e. what form of energy storage would occur in >the gasses), if the disassociation of H2O was done with sound? > >Are you inferring 'pre-emergent' matter, i.e. as a 'substance' we perceive as >'pure energy' (or as you call it PNE)? > >I have a much more critical question to ask depending on your answers, but >I'll hold my tongue for now. > >Regards, > >Stuart > >-- >============================= >S. N. Rae, >Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. >mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 5 04:24:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA18754; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 04:23:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 04:23:21 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 04:24:09 -0700 From: "bob macelvain" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Expiredinmiddle: true X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: How magnets work for health X-Sender-Ip: 209.12.236.173 Organization: MailCity (http://www.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"P1gGD2.0.la4.dmA6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6804 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ...dennis... ... ...interesting post... ... ... ?what do you make of alex chiu's theory(ies)? ... ... www.alexchieu.com .. ... ..bob... Get your FREE E-mail at http://mailcity.lycos.com Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://personal.lycos.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 5 10:08:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA05785; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:00:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:00:22 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: sepp@lastrega.com (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery Message-Id: <98Oct5.130111-0400_edt.34294461-1461+2@hugin.request.net> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:48:38 -0400 Resent-Message-ID: <"SrSkg2.0.HQ1.ciF6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6805 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland writes: >Then what about this question: > >However if that pattern moves, then something must be making it move. What >could be causing the interaction of patterns? > >I don't think my body has an attractive force (I know one person who >thinks differently, at least).The astronauts in the space shuttle and MIR >wish their bodies did, if anything when they loose their grip on something >it seems to go floating away from them. And of all the pictures I've seen >of astronauts in space I don't recall seeing any examples of an attractive >force, which one would expect, as even the most minute objects float free >and if anything seem to be repelled by other objects. > >Then there was the experiment with fuel in which to their surprise when >ignited it broke up into thousands of little balls of fire. > >A question: Is this concept of patterns moving in a static universe, a >derivative in any form of Einstein or is it Plato's. > >Lee > The interaction would be a question of let's call it 'gravitational attraction', a kind of 'affinity', if you will, between the energy patterns. In this case between the patterns, that of a human body and that of a planet. Of course your body by itself (in outer space) does not have attraction, or at least that attraction is so small as to be impossible to feel, different from standing with your feet on the surface of a planet. Astronauts lose the feeling of attraction because it is counterbalanced by a feeling of centrifugal acceleration (if in orbit), or they lose it because too far removed from an attractive body (if in interstellar travel). I haven't asked either Einstein or Plato before writing the article ;-) Seriously, I would not know how to answer your question. Josef Hasslberger Snail mail address: Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY new e-mail address: sepp@lastrega.com homepage at http://www.lastrega.com/Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 5 12:26:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA25241; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:22:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:22:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199810051921.PAA00304@surfergirl.spacey.net> Reply-To: From: "dwenbert" To: Subject: Anomalous Superconductivity Discovery Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:22:33 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qCv1o1.0.IA6.6oH6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6806 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Source: University Of Illinois At Urbana-Champaign Posted 10/5/98 Novel Explanation Offered For Puzzling Electron 'Gas' Experiments CHAMPAIGN, Ill. -- Recent experiments confirming the existence of a novel conducting phase in a two-dimensional electron "gas" sandwiched between semiconductors have posed a dilemma for scientists seeking to explain their observations. Now, physicists at the University of Illinois say superconductivity can account for what had seemed to be puzzling findings. The experiments in question were performed on a silicon metal-oxide semiconductor field-effect transistor. "In such a device, electrons are confined to move at the interface between the metal oxide and the semiconductor," explained Philip Phillips, a U. of I. professor of physics who led a team that analyzed the experiments, which were carried out elsewhere. "Because the electrons move only at the interface, they are said to be confined to two dimensions." The experimenters probed a range of electron densities never before examined at low temperature. In this regime, they observed that below a certain electron density, the electrons behaved as they do in an insulator. Above a certain density, however, a conducting state was observed. "The presence of this conducting state is remarkable, because standard theory predicts that in two dimensions as you lower the temperature, the resistivity will continue to increase and the system will become an insulator," Phillips said. "Until now, no one had come up with an acceptable explanation for this conducting state that was appropriate for the description of these experiments." Writing in the Sept. 17 issue of the journal Nature, Phillips, postdoctoral research associate Yi Wan, and graduate students Ivar Martin, Sergey Knysh and Denis Dalidovich claim that this odd conducting phase is due to a novel kind of superconductor. To support their conclusion, the researchers cite several key observations. First, features of the conducting transition, such as current-voltage characteristics and the scaling of the resistivity, resemble those of known insulator-superconductor phase transitions. Second, magnetoresistance measurements offer clear evidence for a critical magnetic field above which the conducting phase is destroyed. "There are not many states of matter that are consistent with a critical magnetic field," Phillips said. "A critical parallel magnetic field indicates that the electrons are paired up in spin singlet states. The only conducting state that is compatible with this observation is a superconducting one." Because the conductivity was independent of temperature at a particular electron density, that density marks the transition between the conducting and insulating phases, Phillips said. "In this density regime, the Coulomb interactions dominate. In the insulator, strong Coulomb interactions and disorder prevent the electrons from moving. But as the density is increased, these strong Coulomb interactions can lead to the formation of Cooper pairs, a prerequisite for superconductivity." While additional measurements must be performed to confirm their findings, "at present, the insulator-superconductor scenario can explain the known experimental observations," Phillips said. Editor's Note: The original news release can be found at http://www.admin.uiuc.edu/NB/98.10/supercontip.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 5 15:06:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA20984; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:01:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:01:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199810052202.SAA07951@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , Subject: Lenz Law Cancellation @Zero power input. Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 20:05:44 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HcOZW.0.n75.s6K6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6807 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Consider the following situation; A large magnet rotates in the vicinity of a large coil, so that the magnetic lines of force intersect the coil at right angles at some point in the revolution. If the magnet is on the side of the coil a sine wave output can be obtained form the coil. When the coil is shorted or powers a load the rotating magnet experiences a mechanical resistive force due to lenz law. The current established in the coil produces a magnetic field that opposes the relative movement of the rotating magnet. Now suppose for some reason we wanted to cancel the induced currents in the coil by sending an ac signal 180 degrees out of phase with that of the induced. Since the voltages would cancel out zero current draw would issue from this hypothetical cancellation generator,and therefore zero power would be consumed. Does anyone disagree with this assessment. Sincerely H Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 5 15:30:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA29829; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:24:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:24:58 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 17:35:23 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Lenz Law Cancellation @Zero power input. Resent-Message-ID: <"PVwVh1.0.uH7.uSK6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6808 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Consider the following situation; A large magnet rotates in the vicinity of >a large coil, so that the magnetic lines of force intersect the coil at >right angles at some point in the revolution. If the magnet is on the side >of the coil a sine wave output can be obtained form the coil. When the coil >is shorted or powers a load the rotating magnet experiences a mechanical >resistive force due to lenz law. The current established in the coil >produces a magnetic field that opposes the relative movement of the >rotating magnet. Now suppose for some reason we wanted to cancel the >induced currents in the coil by sending an ac signal 180 degrees out of >phase with that of the induced. Since the voltages would cancel out zero >current draw would issue from this hypothetical cancellation generator,and >therefore zero power would be consumed. Does anyone disagree with this >assessment. >Sincerely H Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net Dear Mr. Norris -- Your email address had the following bounce-back notation: 451 ... reply: read error from region102.infi.net. 553 mailhost2.infi.net. config error: mail loops back to me (MX problem?) 554 ... Local configuration error Regards, Evan Soule' From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 5 16:02:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA13200; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:00:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:00:12 -0700 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:07:54 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: A Paper on Paradoxes with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics Resent-Message-ID: <"amsKr.0.9E3.yzK6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6809 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I just now posted a good paper that describes 4 easy examples that all violate the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Written by a college professor at UCSD. Just published!!! (I have not double-checked it: There may still be a few typos... I'll fix later...) It was copied from an important Journal! I just received the required permissions to post it. Please forward this URL to all those who complain about "zero-point energy" or "free-energy"! Thanks! http://www.padrak.com/ine/SHEEHAN.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 5 16:16:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA18375; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:11:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:11:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199810052312.TAA31920@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , Subject: Re: Leon Dragone Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 21:15:42 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6J1ek3.0.wU4.T8L6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6810 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- > From: Meat Truck > To: Bill McMurtry > Subject: Re: Leon Dragone > Date: Monday, October 05, 1998 9:05 PM > > Great post Bill. Time permitting I must conduct this experiment myself. I > would suggest the following modifications and possible problems. > 1) Use pulsed 120 hz dc signal from ac rectification of wall supply . > 2) Choose a capacitance that would resonate with the coil at 120 hz if an > ac signal were > used. Use this capacitance as the "filter" in the power supply,(ie across > the pulsed output). I have used this method to alter induction arcs. Seems > to increase the voltage at the arc. > 3) Problems; Insertion of the magnet will change the induction thus > possibly interfering with the above method. The N up and S up positions of > the magnet should produce two differing inductances to the same dc source( > I would suppose). To an ac input this might appear as an impedance that > changes every half cycle which leads to the nearly impossible situation of > finding a capacity that could also correspondingly change every half cycle > to accommodate a possible resonance. Additionally since induction meters > use an ac test signal to determine inductance such a meter might give a > deviated reading. The preceeding suggestions might only be feasible with > large inductances. > Sincerely H. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net > ---------- > > From: Bill McMurtry > > To: keelynet@DallasTexas.net > > Subject: Leon Dragone > > Date: Sunday, October 04, 1998 11:14 PM > > > > Hi Jerry, all, > > > > Been going over some old papers here and doing a little brainstorming. > Have > > you heard of a now deceased physicist named Leon Dragone? This guy > drafted > > a paper on a magnetic energy process just before he died. Very > interesting > > and it may shed some light on the work of researchers such as Newman, > Gary, > > Adams, Johnson, etc. > > > > One of the big problems (for me, at least) in working with claims of > > overunity operation of a particular device is in accounting for the > source > > of the energy supplying the work. A case in point here is Wesley Gary's > > little self-acting machines, where does the energy come from to drive > them? > > Is there some exotic 'zero point', as yet untapped, energy source? It is > > possible of course, but it does not solve our immediate problem. If we > look > > for our answer to this 'energy crisis' within the known framework of > > physics, what do we see? Heat becomes the only present reasonable > candidate > > for the source of work in a self-acting system. A device that can > transform > > ambient heat energy into useful work can achieve overunity operation. > > > > Leon Dragone outlines the very simple nature of his electrical 'heat > pump' > > effect. His system consists of nothing more than a coil, a magnet, a > power > > supply, and a switch. He places a permanent magnet within a copper coil > and > > energizes the coil so that the external field of the magnet is > > removed/compressed from the space around the magnet, without changing the > > polarity domains within the magnet itself. He then employs an arc switch > > (simple contacts) to quickly disconnect the power supply from the coil, > and > > leaves the coil open circuit. Suddenly the field of the permanent magnet > is > > free to expand back out to its 'normal' geometry around the magnet. But > the > > process of expanding this field requires work. The coil is open circuit, > so > > the energy can not be drawn from current in the coil. The field must > > reinstate itself. Energy is drawn from the vibrating molecular domains > > within the magnet, causing a measured drop in temperature of the magnet. > > Essentially, ambient heat is transformed into work to reinstate the > field. > > Any inductive load applied while the field is expanding/relaxing is > driven > > by extraction of ambient heat energy from the surrounding enviroment. > > Dragone claims to have measured experimental system energy gains on the > > order of 20:1, using this approach. > > > > It may well be that this simple principle is at work within Gary's > devices. > > In the instance of the oscillating beam system (fig. 3, Harpers article), > > the armature remains on the neutral line, and therefore unpolarized, > until > > the pivoting magnet is raised close to it. The attractive force between > the > > pivot magnet and the armature then pulls the armature over the neutral > > line. The field of the armature expands as it assumes its polarized > state. > > This requires work. On expanding, the armature field interacts with the > > pivot magnet field, applying a force to the pivot magnet, which also > > requires work. Could it be that this work is supplied by ambient heat > > conversion as outlined by Dragone? Is it possible that Gary's self-acting > > machines experienced a temperature drop on the armature, or magnet, or > > both, as a result of this conversion process? The power requirements for > > Gary's no-load self-acting demonstrations would have been very small, > > suggesting that minute temperature drops in the system would only be > > required to drive the system. > > > > This approach would appear to open up interesting applications, and of > > course may go a long way in explaining claimed overunity operation in > > various magnetic systems. Comments? > > > > Regards, Bill. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > To leave this list, email > > with the body text: leave keelynet > > WWW based join and leave forms and KeelyNet list archives > > are at http://dallastexas.net/keelynet/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 5 16:23:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA23432; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:20:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:20:53 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: Subject: Re: Anomalous Superconductivity Discovery Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 23:22:16 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3619547b.67741297@mail-hub> References: <199810051921.PAA00304@surfergirl.spacey.net> In-Reply-To: <199810051921.PAA00304@surfergirl.spacey.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ke8Ju3.0.tj5.JHL6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6811 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:22:33 -0400, dwenbert wrote: [snip] >Novel Explanation Offered For Puzzling Electron 'Gas' Experiments > >CHAMPAIGN, Ill. -- Recent experiments confirming the existence of a novel >conducting phase in a two-dimensional electron "gas" sandwiched between >semiconductors have posed a dilemma for scientists seeking to explain their >observations. Now, physicists at the University of Illinois say >superconductivity can account for what had seemed to be puzzling findings. [snip] The 2 dimensional surface of a hydrogen absorbing transition metal heavily loaded with a hydrogen isotope, would appear to be an analogous situation (where protons/deuterons substitute for electrons). Hence a similar scenario may lead to "cooper pairing" of deuterons, with a consequent possibility of tunneling and resultant fusion. This may in fact be the underlying mechanism behind "cold fusion". Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 5 17:51:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA24739; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 17:48:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 17:48:14 -0700 Message-ID: <361A80A4.1EE7@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 13:42:12 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge References: <3.0.5.32.19980930223939.00869410@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19960110071128.00a0d2b0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980930192839.008673e0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981001115528.00a14980@rockisland.com> <199810020519.BAA05618@fh102.infi.net> <3.0.5.32.19981002191646.0086ca10@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981003062752.0086d760@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7Y21G.0.K26.DZM6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6812 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: trknute@earthlink.net wrote: > > It is the case that the true discover of Hydroxy, Browns' gas is in > question................. > Thank you for your interesting and informative reply. The point of a technology less than 30 years in development is well taken, as is the point that Hydrogen an Oxygen are all that are needed to suspend energy. And there is a great deal of significance in your words ".... all forms of stored energy known to man,..". It is of course, not the only means of storing or containing that energy, but it does perhaps point out the commonality of that 'energy' itself. As you said: > > ...............the nature of that energy is in > some ways or all common to all manifest forms of energy......... > In terms of the electrical nature of Hydroxy, how can it be some sort of 'Static' electricity? Static infers charge. And conventionally, charge infers electrons. Which would mean either a basic change in the nature of the gas at the atomic level, or the storage of additional 'free' electrons somehow between the gas atoms. The latter doesn't make any sense. The former seems to, and something about it rings a bell. As you said previously: ".......how the energy of that electron is capable of absorbing energy to move to a higher state, reflected in a more distant orbit or faster spin, or both." I sure it was Tesla who mentioned something very similar along these lines with regard to the energy storage capabilities of an electron. (And of course, Tesla was also quite adamant about the role the aether played in all this.) However there is one small thing that does puzzles me. Why do you so firmly conclude that: "ENERGY OCCUPIES SPACE" ? Or is that an assumption from the perceptions of our material senses? I can understand that if an electron absorbs energy, then it might have to absorb 'something'; which means that energy must of itself have 'substantiality', (...your aether in a bottle question). But 'energy' also requires the perception of something we call "Time" to manifest itself as an effect in the material (atomic) environment. And conceptually, 'time' and 'space' are inseparable, being purely a function of a material universe. If 'energy is 'substantial' but not directly 'atomic', would it not be JUST as reasonable to conclude that, in itself, 'ENERGY DOES NOT OCCUPY SPACE'. The reason being that space and time are only perceptions of the interaction of atomic structures which form matter, albeit that the inertia that creates this illusion is a function of this energy. And, as I'm sure Lee will leap to confirm, time is only a learnt human concept... an illusion. I'm not really trying to be difficult. This is in fact a conclusion arrived at from long careful observation and experiment. It also seems to me that the key factor we might hope to understand by analogy here is the nature of material divisibility and discontinuity at the subatomic level. If, as has been seriously suggested, the electron itself is discontinuous, at that scale any concept of 'Time' or 'Space' breaks down and looses all reality. How do you measure the duration of 'time' between appearances of an electron when its existence is an extremely fast physical oscillation. In other words, a temporal 'boundary' condition is formed that would isolate what you call PNE, from the temporal illusion of atomic interaction, exhibited by the larger scale of 'material' substance it forms. These are not new concepts, and have been known and taught in antiquity. This doesn't mean that PNE might just have its OWN form of temporal and spacial illusion..... generated by what?..... another giant step in the divisibility of material substance? An even finer sub-division of an aetheric substance? > > .....example of a suspension of energy that points out clearly that, > ENERGY OCCUPIES SPACE. > > That final statement is where I get the most flack from conventional > academics. > Don't get me wrong though TK. I'm certainly not an academic (more like a 6th grader....:-), and I'm not giving you any flack here. Far from it. I'm just questioning that particular conclusion on the basis of a different perception. One that might just also answer some of the questions arising from a conventional view of material 'energy'. I actually agree with you that 'energy' IS substantial in nature. I'm also pointing out that from a careful re-examination of the illusions we call space and time, while such energy constructs our material substance, the scale involved is such that within its own interaction the spacial and temporal reference are totally different and without reality to our perceptions. In other words TIME IS NOT ABSOLUTE (and neither is space). You said: > > ......Does this head down the road to a new understanding of aetheric > energy? Have we captured the aether in a bottle? From that can we begin > to measure, identify, quantify, pure energy for the first time? > I guess these were the questions I was really asking in my previous post! > > From these humble beginnings are we to learn how to directly > manipulate pure nonpolluting energy. > Perhaps. Are we are ready for it? At this stage I do wonder how far we might be permitted to go. Regards, Stuart -- ============================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 5 19:03:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA26476; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <36199364.5C87@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 20:49:56 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: HV supply for Bifield-Brown Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Qbtew3.0.bT6.QdN6s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6813 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All: I am trying to find a way to somewhat inexpensively build a 150-200kVDC power supply (anything within that range) for some Bifield-Brown effect experiments. Does anyone know where I can find info on how to build such a supply? What I really need is a plan for how to build it, not an order form. Thanks, Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 5 23:18:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA12359; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:15:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:15:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199810060616.CAA20787@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , Subject: Energy Storage in Magnetic fields Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 04:18:59 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IZ11J1.0.x03.mLR6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6814 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ten years ago I began my course of reasoning to try and ascertain how the Newman motor could work. At that time I knew that energy was definitely stored in the magnetic field. This was readily evidenced by the destructive arcing on the commutator on the model I constructed. In fact this was one of the reasons I discontinued research on the idea. But at that time I simply believed what was in the physics books and never actually questioned how the energy got there. Now I am seriously wondering if that energy got there for free! Consider the following; If the wire was not in a coil formation, but in a straight wire, the dc amperage would almost instantly assume its full ohms law value. Therefore most all of the available electrical energy went into the conversion into heat energy as expressed by I squared times R. Now if the wire is coiled work is said to be done in overcoming the self induction of the coil which produces an emf in opposition to the source emf. Ordinarily without actually considering the matter we might assume that part of the energy that normally went into heating the wire went instead into establishing the magnetic field. But upon actual analysis we find that in the second instance the actual energy that goes into heating the wire is less than what it would be if no inductance were present. This supposed amount of energy set aside to be available for expression as magnetic field has actually never been taken aside for conversion purposes. All that actually has occurred is that energy that would normally be available to heat conversion has been prevented from expressing itself, but this should not be misconstrued that input energy is actually consumed in the process of establishing a magnetic field. In light of the above considerations perhaps the blinking principle employed by Newman begins to make a lot of sense. It might be amazing that the format of reasoning among scientists wondering about the Newman process could be reduced to the classical shell and pebble game in which the manipulations of movements make us wonder which shell contains the pebble? In fact if no pebble actually exists, the progenitors of this great con job win every time. Sincerely wondering? H Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 00:57:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA04823; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:55:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:55:59 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810060757.AAA04795@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Lenz Law Cancellation @Zero power input. Resent-Message-ID: <"nBsAZ.0.HB1.EqS6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6815 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, At 08:05 PM 10/5/98 -0500, you wrote: >Consider the following situation; A large magnet rotates in the vicinity of >a large coil, so that the magnetic lines of force intersect the coil at >right angles at some point in the revolution. If the magnet is on the side >of the coil a sine wave output can be obtained form the coil. When the coil >is shorted or powers a load the rotating magnet experiences a mechanical >resistive force due to lenz law. The current established in the coil >produces a magnetic field that opposes the relative movement of the >rotating magnet. Now suppose for some reason we wanted to cancel the >induced currents in the coil by sending an ac signal 180 degrees out of >phase with that of the induced. Since the voltages would cancel out zero >current draw would issue from this hypothetical cancellation generator,and >therefore zero power would be consumed. Does anyone disagree with this >assessment. >Sincerely H Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net > Yes if a voltage was applied to the coil that matched the coil's, then no current would flow. Pos to pos. No coil current = no coil magnetic field. So no problem with Lenz law. By the way, a "trivial" cancellation source to match the coil's voltage, as long as no current flows is to have the coil open circuit. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 01:54:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA18339; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 01:53:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 01:53:25 -0700 Message-Id: <199810060854.EAA10716@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , Subject: Re: Energy Storage in Magnetic fields Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:58:01 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"28CjS1.0.TU4.5gT6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6816 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In my initial post I may have played the position of the devils advocate. I am sure someone on the list should protest this conception that I conveyed. Oftentimes in the reckoning of things a mistruth can be expressed as a convincing argument. Maybe my logic was as convoluted as the following well observed mathematical conundrum. As the story goes 3 people go to rent rooms. The rooms go for 10 apiece. The renter sends a dispatcher back to refund the discount of 3 rentals which is obtained at $25 instead of $30. So the middle man looks at the $5 and decides to pocket $2 for himself. He then returns $1 to each of the renters. Each of the renters are under the perception that they paid $9 which adds to $27 and the middleman knows that the $2 in his pocket is just as real. But how real are the facts in context that these amounts add to 29 instead of the original 30? In the same kind of confusion magnetic and electric fields are often analogously compared to kinetic and potential energies. The idea of a magnetic field containing potential energy initially seems foreign at first glance to one accustomed to these comparisons. So I must admit that my argument may contain flaws. But I would always appreciate a more correct understanding of my previous argument which I deleted so as to not clog up mailboxes and archives. I too have been guilty of this. If we all paid more attention to our entrees it would be good for posterity. Harvey D. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 11:21:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA09997; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:16:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:16:04 -0700 Message-ID: <361A6B36.BE1298CD@harti.com> Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 20:10:46 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , freenrg-l , Jean Louis Naudin , Evan Soule , daveem m , "W.D. Bauer" , Meat Truck , dave dameron Subject: Best Newman motor coil energizing parameters... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vo1ds1.0.6S2.avb6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6817 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I just had another look at the theory of coils and magnetic fields. A coil L with the DC resistance R has the current i(t), when it is energized by a constant voltage souce V as: i(t)= V/R x ( 1- e^-t/tau) where tau=L/R Now it is very important to know, how much energy is transfered in a time interval from the power source to the magnetic field of the coil and how much energy is lost after this time interval in the R resistance. The formular which describes this is as follows: V x i(t) x dt = i(t)^2 x R x dt + L i(t) x di (x = multiplication sign) which equals Energy delivered from the power source = resistive heat energy loss + energy transfered into the coil field Now if you solve this equatation via integration and draw a diagramm dependend of the time spend, you will see, that in a time interval from t= 0 sec to t= 1/5 tau = 1/5 L/R over 90 % of the source energy is transfered into the coil´s magnetic field and less than 10 % is going into the ohmic resistance heating loss...! Now to get at least some current flowing inside the coil and generate a high H field inside the coil at this short time period 1/5th tau , you need at least some high DC voltage , if you just switch it across the coil for 1/5 tau ! This way you can optimize the magnetic coil field strength in a Newman type coil by applying the right High Voltage DC and can transfer almost all energy during this short 1/5th tau period into the coil field and don´t loose too much wire heating losses. This way, there can be generated an enourmous H field in a huge turn-number coil, which attracts strong permanent magnets very powerful. This is exactly what happens in a Newman motor. Also this stored magnetic field energy can be "recycled" by dumping it into a neon bulb for light output, when the coil is opened and only the neon bulb is still across it. The conclusion is: You can generate a very high magnetic field inside a coil, by using High Voltage DC and switch this across a high number turn coil for only under 1/5th tau seconds . Then almost all energy is stored inside the magnetic field and can be recycled. This is exactly the way Newman has setup his motors. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 12:12:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA04417; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:07:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:07:33 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <7732da7b.361a6a75@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:07:33 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Energy Storage in Magnetic fields Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"Tu4lq2.0.s41.rfc6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6818 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 10/5/98 11:18:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mnorris@akron.infi.net writes: << Ten years ago I began my course of reasoning to try and ascertain how the Newman motor could work. At that time I knew that energy was definitely stored in the magnetic field. This was readily evidenced by the destructive arcing on the commutator on the model I constructed. In fact this was one of the reasons I discontinued research on the idea. But at that time I simply believed what was in the physics books and never actually questioned how the energy got there. Now I am seriously wondering if that energy got there for free! Consider the following; If the wire was not in a coil formation, but in a straight wire, the dc amperage would almost instantly assume its full ohms law value. Therefore most all of the available electrical energy went into the conversion into heat energy as expressed by I squared times R. Now if the wire is coiled work is said to be done in overcoming the self induction of the coil which produces an emf in opposition to the source emf. Ordinarily without actually considering the matter we might assume that part of the energy that normally went into heating the wire went instead into establishing the magnetic field. But upon actual analysis we find that in the second instance the actual energy that goes into heating the wire is less than what it would be if no inductance were present.>> If for simplicity you assume a constant current source, the energy that goes into heating the wire has not changed at all because the resistance has not changed. (Or am I missing something here?) << This supposed amount of energy set aside to be available for expression as magnetic field has actually never been taken aside for conversion purposes. All that actually has occurred is that energy that would normally be available to heat conversion has been prevented from expressing itself, but this should not be misconstrued that input energy is actually consumed in the process of establishing a magnetic field. In light of the above considerations perhaps the blinking principle employed by Newman begins to make a lot of sense. It might be amazing that the format of reasoning among scientists wondering about the Newman process could be reduced to the classical shell and pebble game in which the manipulations of movements make us wonder which shell contains the pebble? In fact if no pebble actually exists, the progenitors of this great con job win every time. Sincerely wondering? H Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net >> Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 12:30:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA12693; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:24:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:24:54 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:35:23 -0600 To: freenrg-l From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Best Newman motor coil energizing parameters... Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id MAA12658 Resent-Message-ID: <"HHTQY3.0.E63.5wc6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6819 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Best Newman motor coil energizing parameters... Hi All, I just had another look at the theory of coils and magnetic fields. A coil L with the DC resistance R has the current i(t), when it is energized by a constant voltage souce V as: i(t)= V/R x ( 1- e^-t/tau) where tau=L/R Now it is very important to know, how much energy is transfered in a time interval from the power source to the magnetic field of the coil and how much energy is lost after this time interval in the R resistance. The formula which describes this is as follows: V x i(t) x dt = i(t)^2 x R x dt + L i(t) x di (x = multiplication sign) which equals Energy delivered from the power source = resistive heat energy loss + energy transfered into the coil field. Now if you solve this equatation via integration and draw a diagram dependent of the time spent, you will see that in a time interval from t= 0 sec to t= 1/5 tau = 1/5 L/R -- over 90% of the source energy is transfered into the coil´s magnetic field and less than 10% is going into the ohmic resistance heating loss...! Now to get at least some current flowing inside the coil and generate a high H field inside the coil at this short time period 1/5th tau, you need at least some high DC voltage, if you just switch it across the coil for 1/5 tau ! This way you can optimize the magnetic coil field strength in a Newman type coil by applying the right High Voltage DC and can transfer almost all energy during this short 1/5th tau period into the coils field and you don´t lose too much wire heating losses. And, this way there can be generated an enourmous H field in a huge turn-number coil, which attracts strong and powerful permanent magnets. This is exactly what happens in a Newman motor. Also, this stored magnetic field energy can be "recycled" by dumping it into a neon bulb for light output, when the coil is opened and only the neon bulb is still across it. The conclusion is: You can generate a very high magnetic field inside a coil, by using High Voltage DC and switching this across a high number turn coil for only under 1/5th tau seconds . Then almost all energy is stored inside the magnetic field and can be recycled. This is exactly the way Newman has set up his motors. Regards, Stefan.< _________________________________ Stefan Thanks for your interesting post! Darryl Bonz in Michigan had a few additional comments: "The losses in Joe's Motors are minimal because he is basically not dealing with heat. And resistance is not the problem, i.e., he is not focusing on resistance. Sure, resistance is part of the forumula and there is a heat resistance value, but it plays a VERY minimal role in his motors. In 'pumping up the coil' and understanding the nature of the TOTAL system, you still must consider the system's interaction with something else --- whether it is permanent magnets, electromechanical devices, transmitter mixes, etc. You must also consider that when you collapse the coil the previously expanded electrons (consisting of gyroscopic massergies) have 'no where to go', so you need a light, etc., to "burn it off". In other words one much consider the interactions of 'pumping up the coil system' AND filling the electron-shell-'holes'." "Essentially, to understand the full system, one must realize that one needs something for the system to interact with -- whether a controlled field (e.g., additional electromagnetic fields or chemical reaction of materials as with a coil & bismuth) or an uncontrolled field (as with a PM source)." "In essence, with Joe's technology, we are anot worried about resistance and current: we are principally concerned with 'pumping up the electrons' (consisting of GMs)." Very best regards, Evan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 14:40:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA08410; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:37:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:37:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981005103446.00a1d100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 10:34:46 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <36195A83.675B@mlb.planet.gen.nz> References: <3.0.5.32.19980930223939.00869410@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19960110071128.00a0d2b0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980930192839.008673e0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981001115528.00a14980@rockisland.com> <199810020519.BAA05618@fh102.infi.net> <3.0.5.32.19981002191646.0086ca10@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"1WL7N3.0.j22.3se6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6825 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I don't know if this is relevant. But I have long been fascinated by Browns Gas. I've bought a few pamphlets on it (Brown recently died by the way) and obtained a tape of an interview with two gentlemen who were so kind as to appear on the Laura Lee Show. It seems that Browns Gas can sublimate Tungsten (reduce it below the molecular level) and leave no residue. It also implodes (hence the pop). It also seems that something so simple as a low voltage battery, say a clay battery like those found in the Baghdad Museum, a goat skin and a hose made of skins and reeds, with the proper mixture of water and nitron(a salt solution in some variation) is sufficient to set a person to work to carve a tunnel in rock, with glass smooth walls, such as exist in Peru and Chile. In another vein. A local tourist shop sells fountains that emit haze. They use an electronic device that uses sound to create this haze (fog). I stuck my finger in the water and it was warm, but not hot or boiling, and this fog or haze was being created by sound. Anyone know what is going on here? I can get the artists name and perhaps some particulars on the machinery. Lee At 04:47 PM 10/5/98 -0700, you wrote: >trknute@earthlink.net wrote: > >> >> Here is an example; >> >> We have been talking about energy, and the general topic is free energy. >> >> You might ask how does hydrogen store energy? >> >> I will go on to answer by describing the loose connection of the valiant >> bond of the electron and how the energy of that electron is capable of >> absorbing energy to move to a higher state, reflected in a more distant >> orbit or faster spin, or both. >> >> That would be on topic. >> > >If Lee doesn't respond to that invitation, I for one would be more than >delighted if you could discuss such a question further. I've been very quiet >on this subject until now, because I'm so appallingly illiterate about such >things. > >However, I have read all of your posts since February with great interest >TRK, and the on-line information you referred to recently. > >You say in your post that hydrogen stores energy. >You also say (elsewhere) that : > >Electricity + water => Browns' Gas >and >Browns' Gas + ignition => Electricity + water > >Question: > >If this is so, is the 'energy' that is stored somehow in the hydrogen, >'Electrical' energy, in essence? > >That is, are you saying it is something completely different in nature to the >conventional electrical (electron/charge carrier) current that was discharged >by an electrical source to disassociate the water in the first place, but >somehow inherent in that current. And also disassociated from it by this >action, to be stored as 'energy' in the hydrogen - and therefore also >containing almost the same potential energy that was discharged from the >source in the first place? > >You can see where that might lead? > >If the answer is in the affirmative, then would you describe this "Energy" as >'material' in a physical, atomic sense, or 'substantial', as in a particulate >but non-atomic (or "aetheric") form ? > >I ask for your view on this, because so much of what you describe has a very >close parallel to the explanations of John Keely at the turn of the century. >In his case however, he used sound to disassociate water. > >But then he also made the comment that "......sound, like odour, is a real >substance of unknown and wonderful tenuity, emanating from a body where it >has been induced by percussion and throwing out absolute corpuscles of >matter, inter-atomic particles, with velocity of 1,120 feet per >second;......... etc., etc." > >In which case, what happens, (i.e. what form of energy storage would occur in >the gasses), if the disassociation of H2O was done with sound? > >Are you inferring 'pre-emergent' matter, i.e. as a 'substance' we perceive as >'pure energy' (or as you call it PNE)? > >I have a much more critical question to ask depending on your answers, but >I'll hold my tongue for now. > >Regards, > >Stuart > >-- >============================= >S. N. Rae, >Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. >mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 14:40:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA08281; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:37:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:37:02 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981005103340.00a1d100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 10:33:40 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Light generation In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19981005012200.006efcac@mail.wincom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"N6Bz6.0.m02.zre6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6824 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:22 PM 10/4/98 -0400, you wrote: >At 12:38 AM 10/3/98 -0700, you wrote: >>If you don't mind the interdiction of a dilletante - I don't see why not. >>Since Light is part of the EM spectrum why not create light with a >>summation of frequencies. >> >>Lee >> >> >>At 11:03 PM 10/2/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>Could we use this summation effect of frequencies to produce columns of >>>light? What would the effeciency be compared to current lighting systems? >>> >>>http://www.atcsd.com/HTML/whitepaper.html >>> > > Tesla and Stubblefield both were said to have created light from no >apparent source. How was this done? > > > > Woody Good question Woody. Maybe someone should be asking and looking. Question is with all of these curious and bright minds, why isn't anyone looking. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 14:40:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA08012; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:36:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:36:44 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981005083416.00a1d100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 08:34:16 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981002191646.0086ca10@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19981003003039.00a11bb0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980930223939.00869410@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19960110071128.00a0d2b0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980930192839.008673e0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981001115528.00a14980@rockisland.com> <199810020519.BAA05618@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"WhzKd.0.5z1.hre6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6820 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks, I'll try. To be honest I very much like your description of electrons and atoms, and how energy is released from them (as if we really knew). I would have a question though about an electron "absorbing" energy to achieve a higher spin rate. Perhaps, isn't it possible, that what is happening is that atoms are giving up electrons to the field, thus enabling a higher spin rate. Kind of like people in a crowd, the more of them there are, the slower the crowd moves and individuals within the crowd. Strip off some people (electrons) and the movement can accelerate. Crazy idea, just came to me. I just have this notion that electrons don't absorb anything. They are either given up or acquired. Thanks Lee Markland At 07:16 PM 10/2/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 12:30 AM 10/3/98 -0700, you wrote: >> > >Dear Lee, > >Thank you for taking the time to set back and think a bit. > >As far as going too far afield, Please do not in any way limit your >speculation as to the nature of things. > >I suggest the format so that you can do just that but keep you specific >questions on topic. > >Here is an example; > >We have been talking about energy, and the general topic is free energy. > >You might ask how does hydrogen store energy? > >I will go on to answer by describing the loose connection of the valiant >bond of the electron and how the energy of that electron is capable of >absorbing energy to move to a higher state, reflected in a more distant >orbit or faster spin, or both. > >That would be on topic. > >Next: You might wonder how much energy a hydrogen atom might be able to >hold. Speculative, but not off topic. > > >This may spur you on to ask how much hydrogen there is in the universe. >Defiantly, not on topic, but clearly a part of the conversation. > >This would fall under free forum, open and non specific, but non the less >related in some way. > >It is my hope that I could then deal with your questions in a more clear, >manner, of which I would be glad to do! > >But pleas do not limit you inquires but understand that some questions that >you have posed here would take volumes to address, even if I were to give >my best effort. > >This is not to be mean but I have seen you ask what might seem a simple >question to you, that actually cross about 7 disciplines of science. >Disciplines that would require a lifetime to be conversant let alone become >an expert. > >All I would hope is that you continue to ask questions, but in turn except >another, whom might simply and honestly say, "I don't know". > >So once again I encourage you, ask away. But follow that simple format. > >On-topic: >Speculative: >Free forum: > >All in the same letter, with clear breaks. > >Best > >TR Knudtson > > > >Well Ted, I'll try to be more compassionate, although on my part I'm fairly >>accustomed (and quite inured) to have folk, especially experts and true >>believes try to beat up on me. I say try, because I have to permit it for >>it to happen - but that is a case of personal psychodynamics - beyond the >>scope of this forum. >> >>I am aware though (painfully ) that I can be testy and frustrating, >>especially since I lack credentials in the things in which I speak. >>Admittedly a Class A ignoramus. >> >>But you really do a good job, when you put your mind to it. Your >>explanation was definitely clear and succint, easy to follow and very >>enjoyable and it is those types of communications I enjoy and learn from. >> >>A comment if you will permit, however, on "running far afield". I have a >>lot of life and work experience, including what one would loosely term a >>think tank (I was amongst other things, a military planner). The most >>productive planning sessions were those in which we would sit around and >>let the mind and the scenario's run far afield. >> >>Where we screwed up, was in not letting them run far enough afield. I'll >>give one example. I don't know if you recall that aborted Iranian Hostage >>Rescue Operation during the Carter Administration. Well that situation was >>the motivation to create what has become known as Delta Force and finally >>the Special Operations Command. >> >>The planners did not run far afield enough. The overlooked the possibility >>that the Navy had 60 and 100 ft refueling hoses available for the Sea >>Stallions. And hence a Naval Supply Officer provided 4 100 ft hoses and one >>60 ft hose for the refueling operation. >> >>It was the 60' ft hose that resulted in the Sea Stallion trying to lift off >>and reposition itself, kicking up a sand storm, obscuring vision and >>resulting in the rotor blades slicing into the C130 "Bladder Bird". >> >>There's a little critter in the back of my brain that keeps whispering, >>that it the expanded imagination and the questioning of orthodoxy that >>accounts for human progress. >> >>Although I will admit I've been on some forums where the "expanded >>imagination" gets a little too much for my stomach - as it runs very >>heavily into the metaphysical and the circular - real woo woo (New Age >Stuff). >> >>I'm of a very practical frame of mind, and feel that nature is not so >>complicated as the human mind tends to make it. Although by complicating >>reality we create niches for ourselves, and thus expand our employment >>opportunities ..... >> >>Thanks Again, and I promise that I will try my very best to behave. >> >>By the way, what's it like having to contend with a female senior citizen >>who isn't into trivia, soap opera's, gossip, recipes or chat rooms? >> >>:) >> >>Lee Markland >> >>At 10:39 PM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>At 07:11 AM 1/10/96 -0800, you wrote: >>> >>>Dear Lee, >>> >>>Maybe you and I have had some sort of personal breakthrough, so that now we >>>can more clearly understand one another. From this point forward, let's >>>try to be a little more compassionate with each other. >>> >>>Yes, I am a teacher. I have a Vocational, teaching credential in theory and >>>practical electrical, Junior collage level. >>> >>>If you like what I had wrote you in our last post, I do encourage you to >>>re-examine my other postings, as I had suggested. Not to beat a dead >>>horse! (Smile) ref. Below. >>> >>>In them I open some speculation on this new state of mater and energy, >>>Hydroxy. But also cover in simple terms, some of the existing complex >>>issues of relativity and inertia. >>> >>>I do very much encourage the challenging of excepted models of the >>>universe, but do caution, that if all is energy as some may surmise, this >>>conversation can easily run far afield. >>> >>>To keep some level of decorum, we may choose to head our letters of with >>>specifics, and as speculative points are raised, we may discipline >>>ourselves to making a clear break in our posts, then being free to enter >>>into conjecture and speculation. It is my hope that in this way others may >>>find it easier to follow, and respond to specifics as well as dabble along >>>with us in off topic summaries and or curiosities. I will do my best to >>>always thoroughly answer and on-topic question, an open option to reserve >>>comment on the more speculative issues. >>> >>>I do not mean to be so dictatorial here, but I would not allow a Willie >>>nilly approach to learning in my class, and I feel some basic format and >>>discipline is needed here as well. >>> >>>So, the format would look like this. >>> >>>On topic: Relevant to the last few posts. >>> >>>Speculative: With reference to topic. >>> >>>Free forum: Gee! Have you ever wondered about this, or that?????? >>> >>>Does this sound workable? On topic, speculative, and free forum. We could >>>call it (OSF) format? >>> >>>Best >>> >>>TR Knudtson >>> >>> >>>http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/hydroxy.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Thank you very much for contributing so eloquently to my education. Great >>>>job, by the way. This one is a keeper (i'll save it in text format). You >>>>should be a teacher, are you? >>>> >>>>I do understand some of this and am familiar with the principle of Hydoxy, >>>>at least as regards Browns Gas. But this is wonderful stuff. >>>> >>>>I understand that energy is stored in matter, like plant food, and minerals >>>>and that it can be converted through some action, like a catalyst, to >>>>energy. And that all matter is merely "bound" energy (does that sound >>>>correct?) >>>> >>>>It is just that when I get into that region known as space, where there >>>>"appears" to be nothing more than a void, except for the lines of force >>>>like gravity and "other" EM transmission, that I enounter a difficulty with >>>>"stored" energy or a medium, like a sugar cube or a pool of oil. >>>> >>>>However space is definitely, not empty, since as you and others have >>>>pointed out there is a tremendous amount of energy constantly transitting >>>>space (and our own bodies, and the planet itself). The question then seems >>>>to me, the ability to tap this transient energy and convert it into a form >>>>that we can use. >>>> >>>>I guess that kind of makes the term free energy, an oxymoron (not my >>>>intention). >>>> >>>>I would wonder if there is a region in our galaxy or any galaxy in which >>>>there is no energy, transiting - a void in other words. >>>> >>>>When I look in the sky I see little spots of light. Light emitted from far >>>>off stars, and although much diminished by their expansion from the source, >>>>these little points of light represent little points of energy. Which it >>>>seems would have the possibility, given the knowledge and tools, to be >>>>captured, used and converted to a useable form. >>>> >>>>Much like radio frequencies can be used to open car doors, garage doors or >>>>guide airplanes. >>>> >>>>But it seems there are no "pools" of static or stagnant energy just lying >>>>around. Instead this energy is in constant motion, moving from its source >>>>and expanding outwards in a sphere and diminishing in strength as it does >>so. >>>> >>>>Does that make sense? >>>> >>>>:) >>>> >>>>Thanks very much for your time and kind explanation, as I said this is a >>>>keeper. >>>> >>>>Lee >>>> >>>>At 07:28 PM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>>>Dear Lee >>>>> >>>>>Electrolyses has been around for more than a Century and a half. Faraday, >>>>>1833 to be exact. Off the top of my head I can not remember the mans name, >>>>>but a contemporary of Faraday, then went on to show that you can recover >>>>>electricity from the gasses hydrogen and oxygen, 1840 or so. In essence >>>>>this presents itself as a closed loop energy system. Until our work, this >>>>>is where the research stayed, the recombining of gasses to produce >>>>>electricity is the foundation of Fuel Cell technology. Fuel cell >>>>>technology, was further developed in the 50s and 60s to provide >reliable DC >>>>>power for spacecraft. The nice part of this process it that after the >>>>>electricity is recovered the gasses recombine to form pure water. If you >>>>>look at Fuel cell, as a source of power of spacecraft, you get two >>>>>benefits, electricity and clean water, from stored liquid hydrogen and >>>>oxygen. >>>>> >>>>>All of science has looked for a medium of exchange in energy. This >quest if >>>>>you will, is central to Einstein's work to discover what is known as, the >>>>>grand unified field theory. For more than a century scientists have felt >>>>>that there must be some universality to energy, in that you can convert >>>>>back and forth in manifest forms. Like with inertia, or "Kinetic" energy. >>>>>Take your car going down the road at high speed, slam on the breaks and >the >>>>>tires get hot enough to smoke. Inertia converted to heat! Electricity >>>>>seems to posses the most convertibility. Inertia or more generally >>>>>"mechanical" to drive a conductor ( a coil) in a field. Then all sorts of >>>>>things can come from this, light, heat, mechanical, radio, even >>>>>radioactive, in that the common x-ray tube is an electrical device. This >>>>>general convertibility of all forms of manifest energy is what led them to >>>>>look for a medium of exchange, a potential energy that all energies had in >>>>>common. >>>>> >>>>>Nature has been doing this conversion forever. Through photosynthesis, >>>>>Chloroplasts, the cells in plants that convert light energy, take water >and >>>>>divide it by bonding Hydrogen to carbon. The excess oxygen they give up to >>>>>the air, enriching our atmosphere. The carbon they get from >>>>>carbon-dioxide, direct from the atmosphere, a result of volcanism in the >>>>>earth's core. >>>>> >>>>>You have heard of us, "Humans" described as "carbon based life forms"? >>>>>Well, carbon may be the building block of all life, but surly hydrogen is >>>>>the "cement" then in this analogy. The plants busily convert water into >>>>>what are called "Sacarides", basically sugars, but they do not stop there. >>>>>They continue on to build themselves out of this stuff by using oxygen, >>>>>once again to form linking chains, that the fiber and tubular structures >>>>>that stalks and leaves are made of. This linking is made by the Hydroxyl >>>>>bond. Hence the name for the gas that I speak of, Hydroxy. >>>>> >>>>>The structure of sugar and starch are similar and can loosely be described >>>>>as simple and complex, carbo-hydrates. There are those words again >"Carbo" >>>>>or carbon, and Hydro or hydrogen. These Carbohydrates are what we use to >>>>>gain energy for our life sustaining force. If we eat meat we are still >>>>>using this energy, just second hand, as stored in the protein >structures of >>>>>the meat. This protein structure is called a Polypeptide bond, also >>>>>hydroxyl in nature. So you and all lining animal life are dependent on >>>>>Hydroxy for the stuff that makes you. Now, it does not end there. >>>>> >>>>>You are no reading these words, and your mind is using electricity in a >way >>>>>that allows for though. This is a highly developed electrical process. We >>>>>know much about this, but we may still have a wonderment as to where the >>>>>little electrical generator is that generates all those little sparks in >>>>>our brains. Well guess what? It turns out that the sugar, remember, >bonded >>>>>carbon and hydrogen, is once again very important in this process. In our >>>>>brain cells, there are little chambers that allow for a controlled >reaction >>>>>of the hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen for this reaction comes from the >>>>>sugar, and the oxygen comes from the air we breath. >>>>> >>>>>Now remember, the air was enriched with the oxygen left over when plants >>>>>made sugars from carbon by breaking down water, and also to make their >>>>>stalks, seeds, and leaves. We, breath in this oxygen, and it is >>>>>transferred to our blood. The blood then carries the oxygen to the cells. >>>>> >>>>>Our brain cells, then use hydrogen and oxygen to make the electricity that >>>>>fires the circuitry of our brain. This also is similar to the functioning >>>>>of our muscles. The result is the tell tail of the reaction, that being >>>>>pure water and a discharge of extra oxygen and carbon, in the form of >>>>>carbon dioxide, the main gas, we breath out. And wouldn't you know it, >>>>>that is exactly what the trees and plants need to start the process all >>>>>over again. >>>>> >>>>>So, now for review. >>>>> >>>>>All energy in the world of living things is dependent on hydrogen and >>>>>oxygen. >>>>> >>>>>Carbon is used to separate these materials, Hydrogen and oxygen, when >>>>>charged with energy and to form the building blocks for all living >>>>>structures. >>>>> >>>>>Hydroxyl bonds, help in forming the more complex structures of proteins. >>>>> >>>>>Proteins are the most primitive structure of all life, which are in >>>>>essence, Hydroxyl bonds of carbon. >>>>> >>>>>Electricity, that is needed to order and facilitate thought, is a >result of >>>>>a hydroxyl reaction. >>>>> >>>>>So the energy of all life is dependent on the manipulation of two >elements, >>>>>hydrogen and oxygen. >>>>> >>>>>The study of a specific ratio of these elements then is of value not only >>>>>as a study of energy, but as well as the study of all life. >>>>> >>>>>To learn the nature of energy and how it can be used, stored and >converted, >>>>>is a significant part of science. >>>>> >>>>>The discovery, testing, evaluating, measuring and capturing of this life >>>>>force energy is then of value to all of science. >>>>> >>>>>But as a battery, I think that is only one aspect of this research, but >>>>>yes, a battery like thing. But I may draw another analogy as to why I >have >>>>>some problem with just looking at this, Hydroxy technology, as only a >>>>>battery thing. In the more, broad context, a tree could be looked upon as >>>>>a battery thing, in that it captures and holds energy, that we can regain >>>>>as heat and light, as we burn logs in a fireplace on cold withers nights. >>>>> >>>>>I also have great reluctance to identify Hydroxy only in biologic >terms, as >>>>>it is the mechanical sciences that I feel will most benefit. >>>>> >>>>>I do not also want to classify it as a providenceof only a practical >>>>>science technology, because it redefines many of the perimeters here to >>>>>held as absolute by theoretic physics. >>>>> >>>>>But I hope now that you might see that I was not being vague, but rather >>>>>looking for you to formulate a more appropriate question. >>>>> >>>>>Best regards. >>>>> >>>>>TR Knudtson >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>At 11:55 AM 10/1/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>>>>13 thousands what? Permissible? >>>>>> >>>>>>Lee >>>>>> >>>>>>At 05:26 PM 10/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>>>>>13 thousandths might be permissable. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>---------- >>>>>>>> From: Lee Markland >>>>>>>> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>>>>>>> Subject: Wisdom and knowledge >>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 8:15 PM >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I mentioned this once before. But a very astute and credential >>scientist >>>>>>>> once told me that if a person truly understood what it is they are >>>>>>>talking >>>>>>>> about, they could explain it in plain language understandable to a >>>>>>>student >>>>>>>> in the 6th grade. Meaning no appeal to jargon or authority. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So I immediately asked him for a plain language explanation of the >>>>>>>> methodology used by astronomers and physicists to obtain the value >that >>>>>>>is >>>>>>>> given for the mass of the moon (.0129 that of Earth). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Would you believe that he couldn't do such a simple thing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So I had to do volumes of research to come up with my own answer. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've thrown the question to a number of self styled experts, only >to be >>>>>>>met >>>>>>>> with evasions, attempts at changing the subject, (including making me >>>the >>>>>>>> subject). I've received two answers both of them incomprehensible to a >>>>>>>6th >>>>>>>> grader. One of them outrageously long, telling me to tell the students >>>>>>>how >>>>>>>> much of a genius Newton was, and then later telling me to lie to >>>them, so >>>>>>>> as not to confuse them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I even had a noted astronomer admit that he lies to first year physics >>>>>>>> students "for their own good", so as not to confuse them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's really simple though, two paragraphs, three at most, and the >>>>>>>> embarassing thing (at least embarassing if one has integrityand is >>>>>>>> perceptive) is that the word assumption has to be used a number of >>>times. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't think, however, that I would like to spring it on a 6th >grader, >>>>>>>for >>>>>>>> they are still perceptive enough at that age, to notice flaws and ask >>>>>>>> embarrassing questions, which can only be answered by calling on >>>>>>>authority >>>>>>>> or telling them to do some research, or the coup de grace - attempt to >>>>>>>> embarass them in public, by denigration and innuendo. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Lee >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 14:40:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA08184; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:36:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:36:56 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981005091818.00a1d100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 09:18:18 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"TLc-R2.0.m_1.tre6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6823 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wish I knew. I think this was the basis of my first question on this forum. Which was where in the Earth's structure is produced the the EM Field. The answer is of course, we don't know for sure, just a bunch of hypotheses. It could be the mantle, it could be the core. Theoretically, the center of gravity, would be that point around which the Earth rotates. I use to be familiar with the methodology for computing the center of gravity for C141 and C130 aircraft, as well as vehicles. Therefore the center of gravity for the Earth would be 1/2 its average diameter or 6378.14 km from the average surface of the Earth. This would work whether the source of gravity was located in the mantle or the core. However I would add, that is if gravity is a property of mass, then logically dead center of mass would be null gravity, as the gravitational forces surrounding it would be acting in equal and opposite directions thus creating a null point. It would also seem that other points on or in the Earth which were being acted on equally form different sides by different masses would also have diminished or null gravity - if gravity were a property of mass that is. Lee At 06:05 PM 10/4/98 -0700, you wrote: >...lee... >... >...a little closer to home... >... >... ?question? >... >... ?where (approximately, > within a thousand miles) > is the center-of-gravity > of the planet earth? ... >... >...thanks... >... >...bob... > > > >Get your FREE E-mail at http://mailcity.lycos.com >Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://personal.lycos.com > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 14:40:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA08735; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:37:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:37:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981005111025.00a1e670@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 11:10:25 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981003062752.0086d760@earthlink.net> References: <36195A83.675B@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <3.0.5.32.19980930223939.00869410@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19960110071128.00a0d2b0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980930192839.008673e0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981001115528.00a14980@rockisland.com> <199810020519.BAA05618@fh102.infi.net> <3.0.5.32.19981002191646.0086ca10@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"_GQeK1.0.E82.Jse6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6827 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Lee, may have hit upon the most clear choice, that of a type of static >electricity. This seemed to me early on to be a simple solution as well. I might point out to Lee, if she reads this, that if it is shown that >static electricity burns, she should get out her best gown, for her >appearance at her receipt of the Nobel prize. You're funny. Thanks no. Not interested in any such thing, serious. Have no need for such stuff either. In fact it is the last thing I want in life. But static electricity does all kinds of things, doesn't it. It can cause explosions in a dust pile. Of course you have to disturb the dust pile and mingle the particulates with oxygen (air) but you can blow a factory apart in the process, common dust and dirt will do, flour or metal shavings work just fine as well. >I will go one bold step further, for those of you who are working directly >with this technology. Subject the Hydroxy flame to the flame of a candle. >Just bring it close and record the amplitude of the sound. You will hear a >tearing, wrenching sound of truly unusual force. Why? I ask you all, who >have these units. Why? Do a comparative study of an oxy-acetylene tip of >the same force directed at a candle flame. If it is nothing more than a >Hydrogen flame, why does this simple test generate that terrible noise? > Awesome. Maybe it is a dischord? Would the "fact" that a hydroxy flame is imploding, have anything to do with it. I bet a musician can answer this. If you press down very hard on a violin string you get a harsh sound, and if you press down lightly you get a lighter sound. Also the presence of the two burning objects in proximity to each other could be producing something like a harmonic. Will a hydroxy flame extinguish a candle, will an oxy-acetylane flame? This is getting far out, but it almost sounds like a scream of pain. Lee At 06:27 AM 10/3/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 04:47 PM 10/5/98 -0700, you wrote: >>trknute@earthlink.net wrote: >> >>> > >Dear Stuart. > >It is the case that the true discover of Hydroxy, Browns' gas is in >question. The patents that were filed by Brown reference the original work >of Dr. William Rhodes. I have been in touch with Rhodes and feel that he >may be the true originator of this work. Non the less Brown should be >clearly accredited with bring this technology to the near mainstream of >science. Certainly the practical application of the welding units produced >in Australia and later China by Norinco, has set his work well to be >identified as the father of this technology. All of this is only to make >the point that this technology is less than 30 years in the knowledge of >man. That is a very short time, with regard to the overall development >curve of any technology. > >What I am saying about all forms of stored energy known to man, is that the >two elements of Hydrogen and oxygen are all that are needed to suspend >energy. All other involvement's of any element is purely superfluous, and >in many ways retardant to the energy in reaction. > >There are many types of systems of disassociation of water. Micro-wave, >direct current, photo excitation, and I would also be encouraged to look >for this also with sound. If what has been indicated, that water is the >medium of this energy suspension, and the nature of that energy is in some >ways or all common to all manifest forms of energy. Than yes I see no >reason that this Pure Non-manifest Energy, would not support excitation by >sound. > >But you must be clear on one main point. Hydrogen is not the only >component to energy. Combustion, requires oxygen. Whether it is the fuel >cell research that is done by the Ballard company in Canada for their >busses, or your car running down the road on petrol, or the crackling of >your logs in the fireplace. All require the second hidden half if this >equation. The key point of Hydroxy technology, is that it contains both >essentials in a perfect ratio. Nature, when producing the suspension has >charged both halves of the energy potential in bio-mass sourced energies. >The oxygen set free to the atmosphere, and the hydrogen bonded Carbon, to >break it's natural affinity with oxygen. > >The electrical nature of Hydroxy. > >Lee, may have hit upon the most clear choice, that of a type of static >electricity. This seemed to me early on to be a simple solution as well. > >But, this gets into the discussions with George Wiseman. George being most >familiar with conventional combustion of hydrocarbon fuels, insisted that >there must be a need for heat to break the diatomic bonds that he >dogmatically held must exist. We were not able to conduct the experiment >that settled this issue during the short time that we had together, that of >filling a column of size with the gas. The gas does not stratify. The >other issue that points to the homogeneous nature of the gas is the high >detonation rates. About Mach 7.5 at ambient pressure. The third issue that >clinched it for me was the heat potentials of the gas, cool at ambient, the >boiling point of water, yet able to sublimate tungsten, 5928 C. > >All of these tests suggest to me a state referred to as free radical state, >and much more reflective of the plasma like reaction when combusted in a >vacuum. > >I might point out to Lee, if she reads this, that if it is shown that >static electricity burns, she should get out her best gown, for her >appearance at her receipt of the Nobel prize. > >In disagreement with Wiseman, who claims H2O2 as the chemical makeup of the >gas, I put forward a matrix of free radical in energy-suspension of more >accurately, H, H, O. The question still remains can mater assume an >un-bonded state as I describe. This also would account high volume >quantities of Hydroxy, in that its specific gravity is .0335. half that of >pure hydrogen. > >What ever the nature of this energy or its source, this is the first known >example of a suspension of energy that points out clearly that, ENERGY >OCCUPIES SPACE. > >That final statement is where I get the most flack from conventional >academics. > >Let there be no mistake about it, TR Knudtson says that energy occupies >space. Does this head down the road to a new understanding of aetheric >energy? Have we captured the aether in a bottle? From that can we begin >to measure, identify, quantify, pure energy for the first time? From these >humble beginnings are we to learn how to directly manipulate pure >nonpolluting energy. > >I will go one bold step further, for those of you who are working directly >with this technology. Subject the Hydroxy flame to the flame of a candle. >Just bring it close and record the amplitude of the sound. You will hear a >tearing, wrenching sound of truly unusual force. Why? I ask you all, who >have these units. Why? Do a comparative study of an oxy-acetylene tip of >the same force directed at a candle flame. If it is nothing more than a >Hydrogen flame, why does this simple test generate that terrible noise? > > >Best > >TR Kudtson > > > > >>> Here is an example; >>> >>> We have been talking about energy, and the general topic is free energy. >>> >>> You might ask how does hydrogen store energy? >>> >>> I will go on to answer by describing the loose connection of the valiant >>> bond of the electron and how the energy of that electron is capable of >>> absorbing energy to move to a higher state, reflected in a more distant >>> orbit or faster spin, or both. >>> >>> That would be on topic. >>> >> >>If Lee doesn't respond to that invitation, I for one would be more than >>delighted if you could discuss such a question further. I've been very quiet >>on this subject until now, because I'm so appallingly illiterate about such >>things. >> >>However, I have read all of your posts since February with great interest >>TRK, and the on-line information you referred to recently. >> >>You say in your post that hydrogen stores energy. >>You also say (elsewhere) that : >> >>Electricity + water => Browns' Gas >>and >>Browns' Gas + ignition => Electricity + water >> >>Question: >> >>If this is so, is the 'energy' that is stored somehow in the hydrogen, >>'Electrical' energy, in essence? >> >>That is, are you saying it is something completely different in nature to >the >>conventional electrical (electron/charge carrier) current that was >discharged >>by an electrical source to disassociate the water in the first place, but >>somehow inherent in that current. And also disassociated from it by this >>action, to be stored as 'energy' in the hydrogen - and therefore also >>containing almost the same potential energy that was discharged from the >>source in the first place? >> >>You can see where that might lead? >> >>If the answer is in the affirmative, then would you describe this "Energy" >as >>'material' in a physical, atomic sense, or 'substantial', as in a >particulate >>but non-atomic (or "aetheric") form ? >> >>I ask for your view on this, because so much of what you describe has a very >>close parallel to the explanations of John Keely at the turn of the century. >>In his case however, he used sound to disassociate water. >> >>But then he also made the comment that "......sound, like odour, is a real >>substance of unknown and wonderful tenuity, emanating from a body where it >>has been induced by percussion and throwing out absolute corpuscles of >>matter, inter-atomic particles, with velocity of 1,120 feet per >>second;......... etc., etc." >> >>In which case, what happens, (i.e. what form of energy storage would occur >in >>the gasses), if the disassociation of H2O was done with sound? >> >>Are you inferring 'pre-emergent' matter, i.e. as a 'substance' we perceive >as >>'pure energy' (or as you call it PNE)? >> >>I have a much more critical question to ask depending on your answers, but >>I'll hold my tongue for now. >> >>Regards, >> >>Stuart >> >>-- >>============================= >>S. N. Rae, >>Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. >>mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 14:40:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA08529; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:37:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:37:16 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981005102819.00a1e810@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 10:28:19 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: How magnets work for health In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19981004193731.00d68d64@popd.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"-FbVY2.0.y42.Ase6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6826 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey Dennis: Thanks for the info, especially about diabetes. I'm keeping this one. It should work in humans as well. any more info on this treatment for diabetes? Also I live in on a spot that is extremely comfortable, so much so that I feel ill at ease having to leave it for any amount of time. What gets me though is that in the summer time, the immediate vicinity of my house is always 3 - 7 degrees warmer than the surrounding vicinity, I live on the side of a hill and I can move up or down the hill or laterally and find a change in temperature (I use the sensing device in the car). Lee At 12:37 PM 10/4/98 -0700, you wrote: >Possible explainations for your decrease in energy when experiencing >changing magnetic fields: > >1. Electroporation - well documented reaction of increase in cell membrane >permiability when same is exposed to electric/magnetic fields. If toxins are >released (a good thing for you in the long run) from cells due to >electroporation, uncomfortable side effects result. > >2. Negative electric and magnetic fields (North pole is negative field - >South pole of compass needle points to this field) are a contracting energy >which has a calming effect. The positive electric and magnetic fields are an >expanding energy which has an energizing effect. > >An aquaintance who runs for exercise noticed that he goes alot further in >distance when following electric powerlines on hilly terrain. The >undulations cause variations in the distance to the cables thus constantly >changing the local magnetic field intensity. > >When my cat (The Kitty) first got diabetes (she started drinking twice as >much water and pissed all over the place), I brought her to a vet who >prescribed insulin shots. I later learned that diabetes may be caused by a >calcium build up in cell membranes that restricts glucose absorbtion and/or >insulin release. I feed her magnesium, methylsulphonalmethane (MSM) with >vitamin C, and made a North pole facing magnet plate (150 ceramic8 disc >magnets glued down with North Pole up) that went under her bedding. The >three above mentioned therapies all aid in releasing the trapped calcium >from the cell walls and allowed proper glucose metabolism to resume. It has >been 5 months since we stopped the insulin shots. The Kitty is doing fine >because the symptoms subsided on the first week of this unconventional >treatment and have not returned. We stopped the insulin shots on that first >week also because it looked like The Kitty was starting to hate us for doing >that. I told the vet about these events and showed her the research papers I >found. The vet couldn't believe any of it and she still thinks diabetes is a >permanent condition after its' onset has begun. She still insists that we >must immediately resume administering the insulin shots to The Kitty. > >Dennis > > > >At 01:12 PM 10/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Health and spinning magnets: >>I (personally) notice a drastic decrease in energy when I play with my >>non shielded motors. I am at the point that I need to shield the magnets >>I work with. >>I have been warned about this in the past and now I can feel the >>effects. >> >>Jim >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------- >> To leave this list, email >> with the body text: leave keelynet >> WWW based join and leave forms and KeelyNet list archives >> are at http://dallastexas.net/keelynet/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > > >Tall Ships >http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 14:40:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA08090; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:36:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:36:50 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981005103352.00a1d100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 10:33:52 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <0b4e01bdeffc$30a41a60$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"l64G03.0.F-1.nre6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6822 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:04 PM 10/4/98 -0400, you wrote: > >>question to you, that actually cross about 7 disciplines of science. >>Disciplines that would require a lifetime to be conversant let alone become >>an expert. > > >So is our time best spent trying to teach each new generation things that >took great minds a whole lifetime (say 70 years) to learn and discover, or >better ways of keeping already educated and bright people alive longer? I >wonder where science would be at today if all the possible energy and time >we have invested into many disciplines - say astronomy, meterology, geology- >had been invested into life extension, if einstien and newton were still >alive today do you think mathematical science would have been advanced or >slowed? If these "great minds" had got off to a wrong start conceptually, and error has been propounded by adding on to error, and if each new discovery, each anomaly encountered, each new observation instead of causing "great minds" to revisit theory, merely had the effect of these great minds to go to the blackboard and modify their original equations, how much closer to the truth are we. How much have we really advanced our knowledge? At what point then, does science become a religion? In which there are Messiahs, demigods, catechisms, heresies, infidels, priesthoods (replete with vestments), hassocks to kneel on, professions of faith (e.g E=mc^2, of NULG). And you are correct about investing effort into life extension, I have a suspicion that the PTB (powers that be) are availing themselves of technology and techniques, but not much interested in the prolongation of the life of the worker slave, as we eventually become an annoyance. We either become too old and wise (hence heretics and infidels, mean spirited old curmudgeons who have learned not to trust or worship authority) or we become a drain on the system - meaning pension funds and social security. Grat calls me a moron, and indeed I may be. But his old moron has raised more than her fair share of hell and caused one hell of a lot of folk to start asking embarrassing questions. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 14:41:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA09323; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:38:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:38:12 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981006035020.00a0d530@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 03:50:20 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Anomalous Superconductivity Discovery In-Reply-To: <199810051921.PAA00304@surfergirl.spacey.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA09087 Resent-Message-ID: <"7bU3J.0.VG2.0te6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6829 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I notice in the following the reference and relationship between electrons and magnetic fields and keep thinking. "Isn't this what I belabored previously? That a magnetic field is merely an excess or a bunching of electrons." Wonder why it is that an aluminum disk set to a high spin can be magnetized? Lee At 03:22 PM 10/5/98 -0400, you wrote: >Source: University Of Illinois At Urbana-Champaign > > > >Posted 10/5/98 > > >Novel Explanation Offered For Puzzling Electron 'Gas' Experiments > >CHAMPAIGN, Ill. -- Recent experiments confirming the existence of a novel >conducting phase in a two-dimensional electron "gas" sandwiched between >semiconductors have posed a dilemma for scientists seeking to explain their >observations. Now, physicists at the University of Illinois say >superconductivity can account for what had seemed to be puzzling findings. > >The experiments in question were performed on a silicon metal-oxide >semiconductor field-effect transistor. "In such a device, electrons are >confined to move at the interface between the metal oxide and the >semiconductor," explained Philip Phillips, a U. of I. professor of physics >who led a team that analyzed the experiments, which were carried out >elsewhere. "Because the electrons move only at the interface, they are said >to be confined to two dimensions." > >The experimenters probed a range of electron densities never before >examined at low temperature. In this regime, they observed that below a >certain electron density, the electrons behaved as they do in an insulator. >Above a certain density, however, a conducting state was observed. > >"The presence of this conducting state is remarkable, because standard >theory predicts that in two dimensions as you lower the temperature, the >resistivity will continue to increase and the system will become an >insulator," Phillips said. "Until now, no one had come up with an >acceptable explanation for this conducting state that was appropriate for >the description of these experiments." > >Writing in the Sept. 17 issue of the journal Nature, Phillips, postdoctoral >research associate Yi Wan, and graduate students Ivar Martin, Sergey Knysh >and Denis Dalidovich claim that this odd conducting phase is due to a novel >kind of superconductor. > >To support their conclusion, the researchers cite several key observations. >First, features of the conducting transition, such as current-voltage >characteristics and the scaling of the resistivity, resemble those of known >insulator-superconductor phase transitions. Second, magnetoresistance >measurements offer clear evidence for a critical magnetic field above which >the conducting phase is destroyed. > >"There are not many states of matter that are consistent with a critical >magnetic field," Phillips said. "A critical parallel magnetic field >indicates that the electrons are paired up in spin singlet states. The only >conducting state that is compatible with this observation is a >superconducting one." > >Because the conductivity was independent of temperature at a particular >electron density, that density marks the transition between the conducting >and insulating phases, Phillips said. > >"In this density regime, the Coulomb interactions dominate. In the >insulator, strong Coulomb interactions and disorder prevent the electrons >from moving. But as the density is increased, these strong Coulomb >interactions can lead to the formation of Cooper pairs, a prerequisite for >superconductivity." > >While additional measurements must be performed to confirm their findings, >"at present, the insulator-superconductor scenario can explain the known >experimental observations," Phillips said. > >Editor's Note: The original news release can be found at >http://www.admin.uiuc.edu/NB/98.10/supercontip.html > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 14:41:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA08060; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:36:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:36:48 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981005090453.00a1d3c0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 09:04:53 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Question on magnetic star (off topic) In-Reply-To: <3618117D.8817BB2@GroupZ.net> References: <3614ABC1.46034452@GroupZ.net> <36159961.2227B185@erols.com> <3.0.5.32.19981003004556.00a139d0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19981004033326.00a2c600@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZcOZ4.0.oz1.lre6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6821 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Interesting indeed. We seem to agree. Now I wonder how much a neutrino would weigh. Considering that it is suppose to have "mass". Gawwd, I hate that word "mass" because it is usually defined by its "attractive characteristic". Would it be alright to refer to something as having volume density - hence weight. Lee At 08:23 PM 10/4/98 -0400, you wrote: >Lee - glad you agree that anything with inertia also is >called "having mass"...I think we agree such things as >radio waves, light waves, x=rays, etc., all do not have >inertia...therefore they do not have mass...my question >was, and is, are there any other things from this event >that may reach the earth at a later time...I am assuming >that these "things" would have mass, and for that reason >arrive later....one of the possibilities that was brought >up was neutrino's, if these particles exist, and if they >have mass they may arrive at a later time...my further >question was then, if they arrive, could we tell the >weight of them...based on difference from the arrival >of the x-rays/gamma rays to the time of the neutrino's >...so this is where we are now, I think ...hope this >statement meets with your approval ...thanks for your >reply....steve > > >Lee Markland wrote: >> >> I'm glad you inserted the caveat "if" a neutrino has mass. I think >> it >> unfortunate that physicists have chosen to believe (because of >> belief in >> Einstein) that there are sub atomic particles like neutrino's, >> neutrons, >> protons, photon's, etc. >> >> This way of conceptualizing the universe is merely nothing more than >> a more >> complicated version of Newton's own theory of everything. >> >> Newton was a corpuscularean (following on the footsteps of Plato). >> To him >> everything, including light, was little corpuscles. It seems we are >> still >> dragging that baggage around with us, and perhaps limiting the reach >> of our >> knowledge and technical advance. >> >> As I posted previously. The Students of Prof A. Micelson, discovered >> in a >> mile long evacuated tunnel under the Pasadena Mts (on what is now >> JPL >> property) that the speed of light is not constant, but varies and >> does so >> (somehow) by the seasons. Therefore, to me the equation E=mc^2 is >> false, it >> has to be if light is a variable and not a constant. >> >> I am also aware that 1 1/2 miles deep in the Homestead Mine, there >> is a vat >> of cleaning fluid and every once in a while something triggers a >> receptor >> that makes a flashbulb pop, and that is suppose to prove the >> existence of >> neutrino's. But does it really. >> >> I know also that I can hit a button on my remote device and change >> channels. Does that mean there are little corpuscles flying from the >> remote >> to the TV? >> >> I know that the neutron was a concept created to account for weight. >> Weight >> is a concept that has been totally debased by the concept of mass. >> What >> gives something weight has never been able to be seperated from the >> thing >> that weighs, and thus we accept gravity as a force that gives things >> weight >> because gravity is a part of the thing itself (Circular Reasoning). >> We don't need the proton in the nucleus of the atom, either. >> Polarity is >> not necessary because there is no reason to apply the concept that >> opposites attract (and they don't, not in nature not in people - >> birds of a >> feather flock together is more like it). >> The concept of opposite's attracting, a concept made up to describe >> the >> physical behavior of magnets, being applied to an atom is >> unnecessary and >> also distracting - it shunts science down a dead end siding. >> >> But it hasn't stopped at neutrons and protons, now it is neutrino's >> and >> photon's, dark matter, snowflakes, quarks, rainbows, charms, sweets >> - a >> whole zoology of sub atomic particles and are we getting any closer >> to >> understanding the universe. Are we able to take all of these >> zoomorphs and >> translate them into practicalities? >> >> I dun think so. Haven't seen anything useful come from this field of >> metaphysics yet, except to provide script material for StarTrek, >> StarGate >> and Babylon 5. >> >> I would think that anything which one could call mass is something >> that one >> could put in their hands and weigh, or store in a safe place in a >> jar. When >> in motion it has "inertia" and that can be measure by the simple >> equation >> f=ma or as I prefer f=wa, where w=weight. >> When Professor Self Absorbed, emerges from the Homestead Mine with >> a >> thimble full of neutrino's, then I will believe that there do indeed >> exist >> neutrino's. >> >> Matter has two propensities. It is either in motion or it is at >> rest. If it >> is at rest, it is because something else (that itself is moving) is >> impeding the progress of its journey. >> >> But I can't think of anything that is completely at rest. My chair >> is >> sitting on a floor, If I pulled out the floor the chair would >> continue it's >> journey towards the source of the attractive force, thus it has a >> force >> acting on it all time (giving it weight). However the floor is >> sitting on a >> planet that is moving in the following manner. >> >> 1. It is rotating >> 2. It is orbiting the sun >> 3. It is lagging the sun as the sun moves through the galaxy >> (revisiting my >> analysis of Kepler's 2d Law) >> 4. The Galaxy itself is in motion. >> >> Therefore the idea of at rest is only relative. Relative to the >> observor. >> >> To return to the subject. Are radio transmissions made up of little >> corpuscles? Is EM of a corpuscularean nature? If not, and if not >> necessary, >> then why do we think that there are such things as neutrino's and >> that they >> have mass? >> >> Because that is what Daddy told us? >> >> Lee >> >> At 09:19 PM 10/3/98 -0400, you wrote: >> >OK Lee, I'll bite, as I understand mass...it is anything that shows >> >the property >> >we call inertia...the more the mass the more the inertia that is >> shown >> >at equal >> >speeds... >> > >> >Anything that has mass, as it gets closer and closer to the speed >> of >> >light, takes >> >more and more energy to get it to go faster..(e=mc^2 or >> >c^=m/e)....therefore to >> >my way of thinking, anything that has mass will travel slower than >> the >> >speed of >> >light...and if a neutrino has mass, it will arrive later than >> >x-rays/gamma rays >> >which, having no mass, travel at speed of light....so my thinking >> is >> >that the >> >six hours was caused by neutrinos having mass... >> > >> >Am waiting to be corrected on any of this .....steve >> > >> >Lee Markland wrote: >> >> >> >> Can you define mass? So that we know what we are calculating? >> >> >> >> Did it take 5 or 6 hours for this so called "neutrino" burst to >> reach >> >> Earth, meaning it traveled at subliminal speeds? What an emission >> of >> >> radiation from a supernova travel at subliminal speeds while the >> light >> >> traveled at a higher rate of speed? >> >> >> >> Or did it take 5 or 6 hours of chain reaction, after the star >> went >> >> supernova, before this radiation we call neutrino's was released? >> >> >> >> Are these valid questons? >> >> >> >> Lee >> >> >> >> At 11:42 PM 10/2/98 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >Jim...since there were six hours from a relatively close >> >> >supernova, does that mean. because of the extreme distance of >> >> >this star we can expect a neutrino burst at some future >> >> >time.... >> >> >and can we calculate the mass from this burst when it arrives >> ??....to >> >> >verify the estimated mass of neutrino we have now....steve >> >> > >> >> >Jim Farrer wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Dear "sno" >> >> >> Several years ago, an astronomer returning from lunch at Cerro >> Tollolo >> >> >> (sp?) observatory in Chile noticed a star shining where none >> should be. >> >> >> He checked, and sure enough, no such bright star should have >> been there. >> >> >> Reported it instantly, and is thus the discoverer of a super >> nova. >> Due to >> >> >> his fast notification and our great world wide comm systems, I >> have read >> >> >> that the Neutrino detection teams all over the world were able >> to >> prepare >> >> >> for and register the arrival of the neutrino burst some 5 or 6 >> hours >> >> >> later. Recently it has been found that one of the three >> neutron types >> >> >> carries a very small amount of mass, thus cannot travel at >> exactly light >> >> >> speed. The other two types are also expected to be found to >> posses >> mass. >> >> >> Can anyone else verify or correct what I've so hazily >> recalled? >> >> >> >> >> >> Jim Farrer >> >> >> >> >> >> sno wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > Was wondering about the x-rays and gamma rays from the >> magnetic star >> >> >> > that arrived >> >> >> > 27 Sep....I assume that they were traveling at speed of >> light, are >> >> >> > there any other >> >> >> > particles that may have been emitted by this burst, that may >> arrive at >> >> >> > a later time ??? >> >> >> > >> >> >> > If so, is there any chance that they could reach the earths >> surface, I >> >> >> > understand that >> >> >> > the x-rays and gamma rays were absorbed by the >> >> >> > atmosphere....thanks...steve opelc >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> > >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 14:47:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA09162; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:38:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:38:03 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981006022447.00a09810@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 02:24:47 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery In-Reply-To: <98Oct5.130111-0400_edt.34294461-1461+2@hugin.request.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"vdB8G.0.kE2.vse6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6828 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:48 PM 10/5/98 -0400, you wrote: >Lee Markland writes: > >>Then what about this question: >> >>However if that pattern moves, then something must be making it move. What >>could be causing the interaction of patterns? >> >>I don't think my body has an attractive force (I know one person who >>thinks differently, at least).The astronauts in the space shuttle and MIR >>wish their bodies did, if anything when they loose their grip on something >>it seems to go floating away from them. And of all the pictures I've seen >>of astronauts in space I don't recall seeing any examples of an attractive >>force, which one would expect, as even the most minute objects float free >>and if anything seem to be repelled by other objects. >> >>Then there was the experiment with fuel in which to their surprise when >>ignited it broke up into thousands of little balls of fire. >> >>A question: Is this concept of patterns moving in a static universe, a >>derivative in any form of Einstein or is it Plato's. >> >>Lee >> > >The interaction would be a question of let's call it 'gravitational >attraction', a kind of 'affinity', if you will, between the energy >patterns. In this case between the patterns, that of a human body and that >of a planet. Of course your body by itself (in outer space) does not have >attraction, or at least that attraction is so small as to be impossible to >feel, different from standing with your feet on the surface of a planet. > >Astronauts lose the feeling of attraction because it is counterbalanced by >a feeling of centrifugal acceleration (if in orbit), or they lose it >because too far removed from an attractive body (if in interstellar >travel). > >I haven't asked either Einstein or Plato before writing the article ;-) > >Seriously, I would not know how to answer your question. > >Josef Hasslberger Therefore then, gravity and all existence is metaphysics. Why not, there is ample precedent for this line of thinking. From Galileo's inertia to explain the rotation of the Earth and the orbit of the moon to Newton's mass gravity to Einsteins theories of relativities. Excuse me please, no insult intended and I hope none taken, if I drop out of the discussion. I'm of a very practical bent and not much inclined at all towards any form of metaphysics be it a belief in YVHV (Yahweh) or a space time continuum. I tend to think that we got off to a bad start in our conceptualization of the physical universe and as a consequence it has gone down hill ever since. On another forum - a biologist uses the following signature: The universe may be not only queerer than we think, but queerer than we CAN think. J.B.S. Haldane The only reason that J.B.S. Haldane made that statement, and why the biologist quotes him, is because of conceptual blinders. Observations continuously fail to square with theory, and theory appears to be sacrosanct - some holy catechism learned, like one learns religion - never to be questioned - always to be believed. I don't want to move onto an irrelevant subject, but I feel that the following is illustrative of where I am coming from. Beliefs religiously held, muddle the mind. "When we shall have done away with the incomprehensible jargon of the Trinitarian arithmetic, that three are one and one is three.." or "No historical fact is better established, than that the doctrine of one God, pure and uncompounded, was that of the early ages of Christianity:...The hocus pocus phantasm of a God like another Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of martyrs..In Fact, the Athanasian paradox that one is three, and three but one, is so uncomprehensible to the human mind, that no candid man can say he has any idea of it, and how can he believe what presents no idea? He who thinks he does, only deceives himself. He proves also, that man, ONCE SURRENDERING HIS REASON, HAS NO REMAINING GUARD AGAINST ABSURDITIES...with such persons, GULLIBILITY, WHICH THEY CALL FAITH, Takes the helm from the hand of reason, and THE MIND BECOMES A WRECK." Thomas Jefferson (Jefferson's Works, Vol 7, P 210 and pages 269-270 by H.A. Washington). :) Lee Markland. We agree to disagree From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 14:56:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA20410; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:50:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:50:34 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:01:02 -0600 To: freenrg-l From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Best Newman motor coil energizing parameters... Resent-Message-ID: <"EMra_3.0.I-4.d2f6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6830 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Oct 6, 8:10pm, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > Subject: Best Newman motor coil energizing parameters... -snip- > Now if you solve this equatation via integration and draw a diagramm > dependend of the time spend, > you will see, that in a time interval from t= 0 sec to t= 1/5 tau = 1/5 > L/R over 90 % of the source energy > is transfered into the coil's magnetic field and less than 10 % is going > into the ohmic resistance heating loss...! Stefan, This is a very significant result! However, my calculations disagree somewhat (but I may be misinterpreting your results). I find that the magnetic field energy reaches 90% of its maximum steady-state value when t = 3 tau. At this point the total resistive energy loss is almost twice the energy stored in the magnetic field. At t = tau the magnetic energy is 0.4 of the maximum, and the resistive loss is about half of the magnetic energy. The cross-over point where magnetic energy = resistive loss happens at about t = 2 tau. Even though our numbers don't agree, this is a very important observation affecting the efficiency of a Newman machine. Thank-you for bringing it to the list. -RJB From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 15:12:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA28271; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:08:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:08:58 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981006221753.00d8cc7c@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 18:17:53 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: How magnets work for health Cc: Alan.CHEAH@adecco.com, ahannan@MIT.EDU, deadnuts@deadnuts.com, lupem@world.std.com, peg@wintergreen.com, bso@acm.org, DaleSVP@ipa.net, clsmith@darwin.bu.edu, ccantor@sequenom.com, 76753.3551@CompuServe.COM, eben@ergeng.com, ehill@world.std.com, leep@world.std.com, ejp@world.std.com, wordpros@inforamp.net, moy@ziplink.net, gjcheah@guybutler.com, wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu, hic@world.std.com, jkokor@alum.mit.edu, Jim Hile , jim@msri.org, discjt@servtech.com, John Ranta , jsearl@tako.demon.co.uk, joshprokop@worldnet.att.net, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, lstelmac@lynx.neu.edu, Leonard Dvorson , cadman@mediaone.net, ohl@world.std.com, rsmith@itiip.com, raddison@world.std.com, 71022.3001@CompuServe.COM, 73577.123@CompuServe.COM, thiahadge@aol.com, tcapizzi@world.std.com, tom.duff@poweroasis.com, TAFAUL@aol.com, vortex-L@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"_ya831.0.cv6.vJf6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6831 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I forgot to mention that the south pole of a compass is marked as the north pole because opposites attract. Also, Wateroz.com probably has the best minerals since they are water soluble. Sorry for the cross post but I want to clarify the compass pole marking issue. Dennis At 10:28 AM 10/5/98 -0700, you wrote: >Hey Dennis: Thanks for the info, especially about diabetes. I'm keeping >this one. It should work in humans as well. Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 15:42:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA12376; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:37:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:37:26 -0700 Message-ID: <361A9C52.DBD971E3@GroupZ.net> Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 18:40:18 -0400 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Question on magnetic star (off topic) References: <3614ABC1.46034452@GroupZ.net> <36159961.2227B185@erols.com> <3.0.5.32.19981003004556.00a139d0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19981004033326.00a2c600@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19981005090453.00a1d3c0@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6k1dz2.0.v03.bkf6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6832 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee..I like the inertia definition, because I think that Puthoff is correct, and it is a function of the zero point field...since the field itself is probably pretty constant over the whole of space, mass would stay the same...it appears that "volumn density", weight could vary as gravity could vary...steve Lee Markland wrote: > > Interesting indeed. We seem to agree. Now I wonder how much a neutrino > would weigh. Considering that it is suppose to have "mass". > > Gawwd, I hate that word "mass" because it is usually defined by its > "attractive characteristic". Would it be alright to refer to something as > having volume density - hence weight. > > Lee > > At 08:23 PM 10/4/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Lee - glad you agree that anything with inertia also is > >called "having mass"...I think we agree such things as > >radio waves, light waves, x=rays, etc., all do not have > >inertia...therefore they do not have mass...my question > >was, and is, are there any other things from this event > >that may reach the earth at a later time...I am assuming > >that these "things" would have mass, and for that reason > >arrive later....one of the possibilities that was brought > >up was neutrino's, if these particles exist, and if they > >have mass they may arrive at a later time...my further > >question was then, if they arrive, could we tell the > >weight of them...based on difference from the arrival > >of the x-rays/gamma rays to the time of the neutrino's > >...so this is where we are now, I think ...hope this > >statement meets with your approval ...thanks for your > >reply....steve > > > > > >Lee Markland wrote: > >> > >> I'm glad you inserted the caveat "if" a neutrino has mass. I think > >> it > >> unfortunate that physicists have chosen to believe (because of > >> belief in > >> Einstein) that there are sub atomic particles like neutrino's, > >> neutrons, > >> protons, photon's, etc. > >> > >> This way of conceptualizing the universe is merely nothing more than > >> a more > >> complicated version of Newton's own theory of everything. > >> > >> Newton was a corpuscularean (following on the footsteps of Plato). > >> To him > >> everything, including light, was little corpuscles. It seems we are > >> still > >> dragging that baggage around with us, and perhaps limiting the reach > >> of our > >> knowledge and technical advance. > >> > >> As I posted previously. The Students of Prof A. Micelson, discovered > >> in a > >> mile long evacuated tunnel under the Pasadena Mts (on what is now > >> JPL > >> property) that the speed of light is not constant, but varies and > >> does so > >> (somehow) by the seasons. Therefore, to me the equation E=mc^2 is > >> false, it > >> has to be if light is a variable and not a constant. > >> > >> I am also aware that 1 1/2 miles deep in the Homestead Mine, there > >> is a vat > >> of cleaning fluid and every once in a while something triggers a > >> receptor > >> that makes a flashbulb pop, and that is suppose to prove the > >> existence of > >> neutrino's. But does it really. > >> > >> I know also that I can hit a button on my remote device and change > >> channels. Does that mean there are little corpuscles flying from the > >> remote > >> to the TV? > >> > >> I know that the neutron was a concept created to account for weight. > >> Weight > >> is a concept that has been totally debased by the concept of mass. > >> What > >> gives something weight has never been able to be seperated from the > >> thing > >> that weighs, and thus we accept gravity as a force that gives things > >> weight > >> because gravity is a part of the thing itself (Circular Reasoning). > >> We don't need the proton in the nucleus of the atom, either. > >> Polarity is > >> not necessary because there is no reason to apply the concept that > >> opposites attract (and they don't, not in nature not in people - > >> birds of a > >> feather flock together is more like it). > >> The concept of opposite's attracting, a concept made up to describe > >> the > >> physical behavior of magnets, being applied to an atom is > >> unnecessary and > >> also distracting - it shunts science down a dead end siding. > >> > >> But it hasn't stopped at neutrons and protons, now it is neutrino's > >> and > >> photon's, dark matter, snowflakes, quarks, rainbows, charms, sweets > >> - a > >> whole zoology of sub atomic particles and are we getting any closer > >> to > >> understanding the universe. Are we able to take all of these > >> zoomorphs and > >> translate them into practicalities? > >> > >> I dun think so. Haven't seen anything useful come from this field of > >> metaphysics yet, except to provide script material for StarTrek, > >> StarGate > >> and Babylon 5. > >> > >> I would think that anything which one could call mass is something > >> that one > >> could put in their hands and weigh, or store in a safe place in a > >> jar. When > >> in motion it has "inertia" and that can be measure by the simple > >> equation > >> f=ma or as I prefer f=wa, where w=weight. > >> When Professor Self Absorbed, emerges from the Homestead Mine with > >> a > >> thimble full of neutrino's, then I will believe that there do indeed > >> exist > >> neutrino's. > >> > >> Matter has two propensities. It is either in motion or it is at > >> rest. If it > >> is at rest, it is because something else (that itself is moving) is > >> impeding the progress of its journey. > >> > >> But I can't think of anything that is completely at rest. My chair > >> is > >> sitting on a floor, If I pulled out the floor the chair would > >> continue it's > >> journey towards the source of the attractive force, thus it has a > >> force > >> acting on it all time (giving it weight). However the floor is > >> sitting on a > >> planet that is moving in the following manner. > >> > >> 1. It is rotating > >> 2. It is orbiting the sun > >> 3. It is lagging the sun as the sun moves through the galaxy > >> (revisiting my > >> analysis of Kepler's 2d Law) > >> 4. The Galaxy itself is in motion. > >> > >> Therefore the idea of at rest is only relative. Relative to the > >> observor. > >> > >> To return to the subject. Are radio transmissions made up of little > >> corpuscles? Is EM of a corpuscularean nature? If not, and if not > >> necessary, > >> then why do we think that there are such things as neutrino's and > >> that they > >> have mass? > >> > >> Because that is what Daddy told us? > >> > >> Lee > >> > >> At 09:19 PM 10/3/98 -0400, you wrote: > >> >OK Lee, I'll bite, as I understand mass...it is anything that shows > >> >the property > >> >we call inertia...the more the mass the more the inertia that is > >> shown > >> >at equal > >> >speeds... > >> > > >> >Anything that has mass, as it gets closer and closer to the speed > >> of > >> >light, takes > >> >more and more energy to get it to go faster..(e=mc^2 or > >> >c^=m/e)....therefore to > >> >my way of thinking, anything that has mass will travel slower than > >> the > >> >speed of > >> >light...and if a neutrino has mass, it will arrive later than > >> >x-rays/gamma rays > >> >which, having no mass, travel at speed of light....so my thinking > >> is > >> >that the > >> >six hours was caused by neutrinos having mass... > >> > > >> >Am waiting to be corrected on any of this .....steve > >> > > >> >Lee Markland wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Can you define mass? So that we know what we are calculating? > >> >> > >> >> Did it take 5 or 6 hours for this so called "neutrino" burst to > >> reach > >> >> Earth, meaning it traveled at subliminal speeds? What an emission > >> of > >> >> radiation from a supernova travel at subliminal speeds while the > >> light > >> >> traveled at a higher rate of speed? > >> >> > >> >> Or did it take 5 or 6 hours of chain reaction, after the star > >> went > >> >> supernova, before this radiation we call neutrino's was released? > >> >> > >> >> Are these valid questons? > >> >> > >> >> Lee > >> >> > >> >> At 11:42 PM 10/2/98 -0400, you wrote: > >> >> >Jim...since there were six hours from a relatively close > >> >> >supernova, does that mean. because of the extreme distance of > >> >> >this star we can expect a neutrino burst at some future > >> >> >time.... > >> >> >and can we calculate the mass from this burst when it arrives > >> ??....to > >> >> >verify the estimated mass of neutrino we have now....steve > >> >> > > >> >> >Jim Farrer wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Dear "sno" > >> >> >> Several years ago, an astronomer returning from lunch at Cerro > >> Tollolo > >> >> >> (sp?) observatory in Chile noticed a star shining where none > >> should be. > >> >> >> He checked, and sure enough, no such bright star should have > >> been there. > >> >> >> Reported it instantly, and is thus the discoverer of a super > >> nova. > >> Due to > >> >> >> his fast notification and our great world wide comm systems, I > >> have read > >> >> >> that the Neutrino detection teams all over the world were able > >> to > >> prepare > >> >> >> for and register the arrival of the neutrino burst some 5 or 6 > >> hours > >> >> >> later. Recently it has been found that one of the three > >> neutron types > >> >> >> carries a very small amount of mass, thus cannot travel at > >> exactly light > >> >> >> speed. The other two types are also expected to be found to > >> posses > >> mass. > >> >> >> Can anyone else verify or correct what I've so hazily > >> recalled? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Jim Farrer > >> >> >> > >> >> >> sno wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Was wondering about the x-rays and gamma rays from the > >> magnetic star > >> >> >> > that arrived > >> >> >> > 27 Sep....I assume that they were traveling at speed of > >> light, are > >> >> >> > there any other > >> >> >> > particles that may have been emitted by this burst, that may > >> arrive at > >> >> >> > a later time ??? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > If so, is there any chance that they could reach the earths > >> surface, I > >> >> >> > understand that > >> >> >> > the x-rays and gamma rays were absorbed by the > >> >> >> > atmosphere....thanks...steve opelc > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 16:44:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA02619; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:34:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:34:42 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981006070946.00a21250@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 07:09:46 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: [alienworlds] FW: Wallace-Tampere Article - Final Version Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"MroD32.0.qe.Hag6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6833 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Found the following on another web page. Has anyone seen this? Is Bob Stirniman on this forum? ---------- From: JJ Mercieca[SMTP:mufor@maltanet.net] Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 4:32 AM To: cydonia@majordomo.pobox.com Subject: [M-TRAC - MSAA] Wallace-Tampere Article - Final Version A draft of the following article was posted here last April. A final version is attached below. The article will appear in the fall edition of Frontier Perspectives, from The Center for Frontier Sciences at Temple University. Also an abbreviated form of the article will appear in Vol 27 of Electric Spacecraft Journal. Many thanks are due the referee at Frontier Sciences for providing substantial additions and corrections. Regards, Robert Stirniman =================== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Final_Article.txt" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mx1.eskimo.com id KAA15134 The Wallace Inventions, Spin Aligned Nuclei, the Gravitomagnetic Field, and the Tampere 'Gravity-Shielding' Experiment: Is There a Connection? Robert Stirniman September 1998 P.O. Box 71407 Las Vegas NV 89179 E-mail: robert@skylink.net Abstract Wallace's patents of the early 1970's claim that a rotating object which contains unpaired nuclear spins can modify gravity. An explanation in terms of a gravitational analogue to the magnetic field of electromagnetism has been proposed. Podkletnov's "gravity shielding" experiment at Tampere, now being replicated by NASA, may also be an example of the same effect. During the 1960s through the mid 1970s, Henry William Wallace was a scientist at GE Aerospace in Valley Forge PA, and GE Re-Entry Systems in Philadelphia. In the early 1970s, Wallace was issued patents [1,2,3] for some unusual inventions relating to the gravitational field. Wallace developed an experimental apparatus for generating and detecting a secondary gravitational field, which he named the kinemassic field, and which is now better known as the gravitomagnetic field. Wallace's experiments were based on aligning the nuclear spin of elements and isotopes which have an odd number of nucleons. These materials are characterized by a total nuclear spin which is an odd integral multiple of one-half (times Planck's constant), resulting in one nucleon with un-paired spin. Wallace drew an analogy between the un-paired angular momentum in these materials, and the un-paired magnetic moments of electrons in ferromagnetic materials. Wallace created nuclear spin alignment by rapidly spinning a brass disk. Brass is composed of elements (copper, zinc, etc.) most of whose isotopes have an odd number of nucleons. Nuclear spin becomes aligned in the spinning disk due to precession of nuclear angular momentum in an approximately intertial reference frame (such as the apparatus which holds the disk), a process similar to the magnetization developed by rapidly spinning a ferrous material (known as the Barnett effect). The gravitomagnetic field generated by the spinning disk is tightly coupled (0.01 inch air gap) to a gravitomagnetic field circuit composed of material also having half integral nuclear spin, and analogous to magnetic core material in transformers and motors. The gravitomagnetic field is transmitted through the field circuit and focused by the field material to a small space where it can be detected. In his three patents, Wallace describes three different methods used for detection of the gravitomagnetic field -- change in the motion of a body on a pivot, detection of a transverse voltage in a semiconductor crystal, and a change in the specific heat of a crystal material having spin-aligned nuclei. In a direct analogy with a magnetic circuit, the relative amount of the detected gravitomagnetic field always varied directly with the size of the air-gap between the generator disk and the field circuit. Wallace's patents are written in great detail, and he appears to be meticulous in his experimental design and practice. In my opinion, it is nearly certain that his experiments performed as claimed. None the less, there has been no scientific acknowledgment whatsoever of Wallace's discoveries. An in-depth search of the literature has uncovered only two references to Wallace's work [4,5] and each of these references merely creates further mystery. The necessary existence of a magnetic-like gravitational field has been well established by physicists specializing in general relativity, gravitational theories, and cosmology. But, the existence of this field is not well known in other of arenas of physical science. The gravitomagnetic field was first hypothesized by Heaviside in the 1880's. The field is predicted by general relativity, and was first formulated in a relativistic context in 1918 by Lense and Thirring [6]. In 1961, Forward [7] was the first to express the gravitational field equations in a vector form directly analogous and nearly identical to Maxwells equations for electromagnetics. During the last 20 years many other scientists [8-17] have published articles demonstrating the necessary existence of the gravitomagnetic field, using arguments based on general relativity, special relativity, and the cause and effect relationship which results from non-instantaneous propagation of energy (retardation). Nearly all of these authors present the gravitational field equations in a vector form similar to Maxwells equations. Some authors comment that these equations provide fundamental insights into gravitation, and it is unfortunate that they are not at all well known. Despite their relative simplicity and possible practical value, the Maxwell-like equations for gravitation do not appear in any undergraduate physics textbook. Just as in Maxwells equations for electromagnetics, it is found that in the presence of a time varying gravitomagnetic flux there will always exist concurrently a time varying gravitoelectric field. The secondary generated gravitoelectric field is a dipole field, and unlike the background gravitoelectric field due to mass charges, the generated gravitoelectric field always exists in closed loops. Henry Wallace recognized this and described it in his inventions. Wallace also describes another effect which may result from generation of a secondary gravitoelectric field. Wallace believed that a secondary gravito- electric field can result in exclusion of an existing primary background field. In other words, a gravitational shield can be created. The bulk of Wallace's patents describe his experimental apparatus, and his detection of the gravitomagnetic field. The effects detected are minuscule, and as such, may not be of immediate practical value. In reading his patents it is possible to become immersed in the detail of his experimental apparatus, and to neglect the possible significance of the alternative embodiment of his invention (figures 7, 7A, and 7B of his first patent). The alternative embodiment uses a time varying gravitomagnetic flux to create a secondary gravitoelectric field in an enclosed shell of material in order to shield the background gravitoelectric field of the earth. Unfortunately, Wallace does not state whether this embodiment was ever actually produced, and unlike the detailed discussion of his experimental apparatus, he provides no experimental findings or data to back his claim. Nor does he provide much in the way of theoretical arguments about how a secondary gravitoelectric field can act to exclude a primary field, except to state: "It is well known that nature opposes heterogeneous field flux densities." Is it well known that nature opposes heterogeneous flux densities? Well, not to me, and I can not find anything in the way of scientific literature to directly support this idea. But it does seem to make sense. It could be argued thusly. In a well- ordered manifold all derivatives of the fields, time-like and space-like, must be continuous. If you force a field to exist in a region of space, the existing background field is somehow required to form a pattern around or smoothly merge with the created field. Nature does not permit flux lines to act with cross-purposes and to exist with widely different directions in the same region of space. Flux lines can never cross. Wallace seems to have gotten his experiments right -- maybe he is also right in his claim of inventing a gravitational shield? In a ground breaking paper in 1966, Dewitt [18] was first to identify the significance of gravitational effects in a superconductor. Dewitt demonstrated that a magnetic-type gravitational field must result in the presence of fluxoid quantization. In 1983, Dewitt's work was substantially expanded by Ross [19]. Beginning in 1991, Ning Li, at the University of Alabama Huntsville, and Douglas Torr, formerly at Huntsville and now at the University of South Carolina, have published a number of articles about gravitational effects in superconductors [20-22]. One interesting finding they have derived is the source of gravitomagnetic flux in a type II superconductor material. In a striking similarity to the ideas of Henry Wallace, Li and Torr demonstrate that the gravitomagnetic field in a superconductor results from spin alignment of the lattice ions. Quoting from Li and Torr's second paper: "The interaction energy of the internal magnetic field with the magnetic moment of the lattice ions drives the lattice ions and superconducting condensate wave function to move together vortically within the range of the coherent length and results in an induced precession of the angular momentum of the lattice ions." And quoting from their third paper: "Recently we demonstrated theoretically that the carriers of quantized angular momentum are not the Cooper pairs but the lattice ions, which must execute coherent localized motion consistent with the phenomenon of superconductivity." And, "It is shown that the coherent alignment of lattice ion spins will generate a detectable gravitomagnetic field, and in the presence of a time-dependent applied magnetic vector potential field, a detectable gravitoelectric field." Li and Torr also demonstrate that the gravitomagnetic field in a superconductor has a relatively large magnitude compared with the magnetic field -- a factor of 10E11 times larger. The gravitational wave velocity in a superconductor is estimated as a factor of two magnitudes smaller than the velocity in free space. And the resulting estimate of relative gravitomagnetic permeability is four magnitudes (10 thousand times) greater than the permeability of free space. In their third paper, Torr and Li, demonstrate that it is possible to generate a time varying gravitomagnetic field in a superconductor, which must exist concurrently with a time varying gravitoelectric field. In 1995, Becker et al [23], show mathematically that a significant size gravitomagnetic field must always exist along with a magnetic field whenever there is flux pinning or other forms of flux trapping in a type II superconductor. They propose a macroscopic experiment to detect the gravitomagnetic field. Becker et al, choose not to speculate about the source of the gravitomagnetic field, except to provide a brief comment that it may result from spin of the lattice ions. One might ask, what is a pinning center if not a microscopic hole which carries trapped flux, and what must be source of the gravitomagnetic dipole moment if not the angular momentum of the lattice ions at the pinning center? Current Research Indirect detection of the gravitomagnetic field was reported in 1988 by Nordtvedt [24] by astronomical observations of the precession rate of the binary pulsar PSR 1913+16. A direct measurement of the earth's gravitomagnetic field was reported in 1997 by Ciufolini et al [25] by laser tracking of the LAGEOS II satellite. Results are pending for the NASA/Stanford Gravity Probe-B experiment to detect the earth's gravitomagnetic field with an orbiting superconductor gyroscope. In 1992, an experiment at Tampere University was reported by Podkletnov [26,27]. A torroidal shaped type II superconductor disk was suspended via the Meissner effect by a constant vertical magnetic field, and was rapidly rotated by a time varying horizontal magnetic field. Masses located in a cylindrical spacial geometry above the rotating disk were found to lose up to 2% of their weight. A gravitational shielding effect is claimed. Conclusion Is a time varying gravitomagnetic field generated in the Tampere disk due to the horizontal time varying magnetic field used to rotate the disk, and does this result in a time varying gravitoelectric field in the disk, and possibly also in the space surrounding the disk, and could this result in exclusion of the earth's primary background gravitoelectric field as claimed by Henry Wallace? In addition, questions remain as to whether the gravitomagnetic field (from the Maxwell-like gravity equations) is of a large enough magnitude to produce the effects reported by Podkletnov and Wallace. Acknowledgments Many of the ideas in this article have been developed in personal discussions with Kedrick Brown (http://home.att.net/~kfbrown/index.html). I would also like to thank Ron Kita for his kind support and useful background information about Henry Wallace. References 1. US Patent No 3626605, Method and Apparatus for Generating a Secondary Gravitational Force Field, Henry Wm Wallace, Ardmore PA, Dec 14, 1971. Wallace's first patent. The gravitomagnetic field is named the kinemassic field. The patent describes the embodiment of his experiment. An additional embodiment of the invention (Figures 7, 7A, and 7B) describes how a time varying gravitomagnetic field can be used to shield the primary background gravitoelectric field. Available on the web at http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/wallc. 2. US Patent No 3626606, Method and Apparatus for Generating a Dynamic Force Field, Henry Wm Wallace, Ardmore PA, Dec 14, 1971. Wallace's second patent provides a variation of his experiment. A type III-V semiconductor material (Indium Arsenide), of which both materials have unpaired nuclear spin, is used as an electronic detector for the gravitomagnetic field. The experiment demonstrates that the material in his gravitomagnetic field circuit has hysterisis and remanence effects analogous to magnetic materials. Available on the web at http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/wallc. 3. US Patent No 3823570, Heat Pump, Henry Wm Wallace, 60 Oxford Drive, Freeport NY, July 16, 1974 Wallace's third patent provides an additional variation of his experiment. Wallace demonstrates that by aligning the nuclear spin of materials having an odd number of nucleons, order is created in the material, resulting in a change in specific heat. 4. New Scientist, 14 February 1980, Patents Review. This article is one of the only references to Wallace's work anywhere in the literature. The article provides a brief summary of his invention and ends with this intriguing paragraph. "Although the Wallace patents were initially ignored as cranky, observers believe that his invention is now under serious but secret investigation by the military authorities in the US. The military may now regret that the patents have already been granted and so are available for anyone to read." 5. Electric Propulsion Study, Dennis L. Cravens, Science Applications International Corp, August 1990, Prepared for Astronautics Laboratory, Edwards AFB. This report provides a detailed review of a variety of 5-D theories of gravitational and electromagnetic interactions. It also provides a summary of a variety of possibly anomalous experiments, including experiments relating to spin aligned nuclei. The reports contains two paragraphs about Wallace's inventions -- partially quoted here: "The patents are written in a very believable style which include part numbers, sources for some components, and diagrams of data. Attempts were made to contact Wallace using patent addresses and other sources but he was not located nor is there a trace of what became of his work. The concept can be somewhat justified on general relativistic grounds since rotating frames of time varying fields are expected to emit gravitational waves." 6. On the Gravitational Effects of Rotating Masses: The Lense- Thirring Papers Translated, B. Mashhoon, F.W. Hehl, and D.S. Theiss. General Relativity and Gravitation, Vol 16, 711-50 (1984) A translation of the original article in German by J. Lense and H. Thirring published in 1918. This article is the first fairly comprehensive analysis of the necessary existence of the gravito- magnetic field. An earlier prediction of the existence of this field was made by Heaviside in the 1880s. 7. Proceedings of the IRE Vol 49 p 892, Robert L. Forward (1961) Forward was the first to express the gravitomagnetic field in the modern form of Maxwells equations for gravitation. He named it the prorotational field. 8. Gravitation, C.W. Misner, K.S. Thorne, and J.A. Wheeler, Freeman Publishing, San Francisco (1973). MTW is the bible of gravitational theorists. Among many other theories presented, gravitational field equations are derived from general relativity in a form similar to Maxwells equations. 9. Laboratory Experiments to Test Relativistic Gravity, Vladimir B. Braginsky, Carlton M. Caves, and Kip S. Thorne, Physical Review D, Vol 15 No 8 p2047, April 15 1977. Gravitational field equations are derived from General Relativity in a form similar to Maxwells equations. The gravitomagnetic field is called magnetic-type gravity. A variety of experiments are proposed and analyzed for detecting the gravitomagnetic field. 10. Foucault Pendulum at the South Pole: Proposal for an Experiment to Detect the Earth's General Relativistic Gravitomagnetic Field, Vladimir Braginsky, Aleksander Polnarev, and Kip Thorne, Physical Review Letters, Vol 53 No 9 p863, August 1984. Analyses an experiment for detecting the earth's gravitomagnetic field. Possibly the first authors to use the terms gravitomagnetic and gravitoelectric. 11. On Relativistic Gravitation, D. Bedford and P. Krumm, American Journal of Physics, Vol 53 No 9, September 1985. The necessary existence of the gravitomagnetic field is derived from arguments based on apecial relativity. The field is referred to as the gravitational analog of the magnetic field. 12. The Gravitational Poynting Vector and Energy Transfer, Peter Krumm and Donald Bedford, American Journal of Physics, Vol 55 No 4, p. 362, April 1987. Establishes the necessary existence of the gravitomagnetic field based on arguments from special relativity and energy conservation in mass flow. Derives the gravitational Poynting vector. Names the two types of gravitational fields as gravinetic and gravistatic. 13. Gravitomagnetism in Special Relativity, American Journal of Physics, Vol. 56, No. 6, p. 523, June 1988. Predicts the existence of the gravitomagnetic field using special relativity and time dilation. Names the fields gravielectric and gravimagnetic. 14. Detection of the Gravitomagnetic Field Using an Orbiting Superconducting Gravity Gradiometer: Theoretical Principles, Bahram Mashhoon, Ho Jung Paik, and Clifford Will, Physical Review D, Vol. 39, No. 10 p. 2825, May 1989. Provides a summary analysis of Maxwells equations for gravitation, and an in-depth analysis of the Gravity Probe-B orbital gyroscope experiment for detecting the earth's gravitomagnetic field. 15. Analogy Between General Relativity and Electromagnetism for Slowly Moving Particles in Weak Gravitational Fields, Edward G. Harris, American Journal of Physics, Vol. 59 No. 5, May 1991. Derives Maxwells equations for gravitation from GR in the case of non-relativistic velocities and relatively weak field strengths. A somewhat more direct method of derivation is used compared with the PPN formulation used by Braginsky, et al. 16. Gravitation and Inertia, Ignazio Ciufolini and John Wheeler, Princeton Series in Physics, Princeton University Press (1995), Chapter 6 -- The Gravitomagnetic Field and its Measurement. Derives the electromagnetic analog of the gravitational field equations, and provides in-depth analysis of experiments for detecting the gravitomagnetic field. 17. Causality, Electromagnetic Induction, and Gravitation. Oleg Jefimenko, Electret Scientific Publishing, Star City WV (1992). Jefimenko derives the electromagnetic field equations based on retarded sources, (charges, moving charges, and accelerating charges). He applies similar arguments to the gravitational field equations. If gravitational energy propagates at any finite speed, the gravito-magnetic field must exist. Maxwells equations for gravitation are presented. He also presents an unusual configuration of mass which is predicted to provide an antigravity effect. 18. Physics Review Letters, Vol. 16, p. 1902, B.S. Dewitt (1966) Dewitt was the first to analyze fluxoid quantization in a superconductor in the presence of a time varying magnetic-type gravitational field. 19. The London Equations for Superconductors in a Gravitational Field, D.K. Ross, Journal of Physics A, Vol. 16, p. 1331. (1983) Maxwell's equations for gravitation are presented in vector form. Ross uses the name coined by Forward for the gravitomagnetic field -- the prorotational field. Fluxoid quantization is analyzed in the presence of a varying gravitomagnetic field. Ross establishes that the momentum of a charged particle in an electromagnetic and gravitational field is given (in MKS units) by: p = mv +qA + mV, where V is the gravito-magnetic vector potential, and A is the magnetic vector potential. The resulting modified London equations are presented in covariant form. 20. Effects of a Gravitomagnetic Field on Pure Superconductors, Ning Li and Douglas Torr, Physical Review D, Vol. 43, No.2, p457, January 1991. Li and Torr present Maxwell's equations for gravitation using MKS units. The equations are given in a form where the gravitomagnetic permeability of a superconductor material is presumed to be different than the permeability of free space. Vector equations for the gravitational potentials are also presented. The canonical momentum is derived (same finding as Ross paper). It is established that an electrical current also results in a mass current, and an inter-relationship is derived between the magnetic field and gravitomagnetic field in a superconductor. It is established that the magnetic flux in a superconductor is a function of the gravitomagnetic permeability, and vice versa, resulting in a more rigorous form of the Meissner equation and the London theory. It is shown that the gravitomagnetic field must have a relatively large size in a superconductor, and is on the order of 1011 times larger than the magnetic field. 21. Gravitational Effects on the Magnetic Attenuation of Superconductors, Ning Li and Douglas Torr, Physical Review B, Vol. 64, No. 9, p. 5489. September 1992. Li and Torr elaborate on their theory of the interrelationship of the gravitomagnetic field and the magnetic field in superconductors. It is established that the gravitomagnetic field must be sourced by spin alignment of the lattice ions. The velocity of a gravitational wave in a superconductor is estimated to be two orders of magnitude slower than the vacuum velocity, resulting in an estimate of relative gravitational permeability of a superconductor material which is as much as four magnitudes greater than free space. 22. Gravitoelectric-Electric Coupling Via Superconductivity, Douglas Torr and Ning Li, Foundations of Physics Letters, Vol. 6, No. 4, p. 71, (1993). Torr and Li continue their analysis of gravitational effects in superconductors. Abstract: "Recently we demonstrated theoretically that the carriers of quantized angular momentum are not the Cooper pairs but the latice ions, which must execute coherent localized motion consistent with the phenomenon of superconductivity. We demonstrate here that in the presence of an external magnetic field, the free superelectron and bound ion currents largely cancel providing a self-consistent microscopic and macroscopic interpretation of near-zero magnetic permeability inside superconductors. The neutral mass currents, however, do not cancel, because of the monopolar gravitational charge. It is shown the coherent alignment of lattice ion spins will generate a detectable gravitomagnetic field, and in the presence of a time- dependent applied magnetic vector potential field, a detectable gravitoelectric field." 23. Proposal for the Experimental Detection of Gravitomagnetism in the Terrestrial Laboratory, Robert Becker, Paul Smith, and Heffrey Bertrand. September 1995. Published on the web at http://www.inetarena.com/~noetic/pls/RBecker/Gmexp2.htm. Becker, et al, demonstrate mathematically that a significant gravitomagnetic field must exist concurrently with a magnetic field in a superconductor whenever there is flux pinning or other forms of flux trapping. An experiment is proposed whereby a small hole is made in a superconductor, flux is trapped in the hole, and the gravito-magnetic field is detected by measuring counter- torque from a macroscopic cylindrical mass inserted through the hole. 24. International Journal of Theoretical Physics, K. Nordtvedt, Vol 27, p1395-1403. 1988. The gravitomagnetic field is indirectly detected by astronomical observations of the periastron precession rate of the binary pulsar PSR 1913+16. 25. Test of the Lense-Thirring Orbital Shift Due to Spin, Ignazio Ciufolini, Federico Chieppa, David Lucchesi, and Francesco Vespe. Classical and Quantum Gravitation, Vol 14 p2710-2726. 1997. The gravitomagnetic field which results from the earth's rotation is experimentally detected and measured by laser tracking of the LAGEOS II satellite. The results agree with the Lense-Thirring derivation from General Relativity. 26. A Possibility of Gravitational Force Shielding by Bulk YBa2Cu3O7-x Superconductor, E. Podkletnov and R. Nieminen, Physica C Vol. 203, p. 441, (1992). Podkletnov describes an experiment where a 2% reduction in weight is created in a mass suspended over a levitated and rotating super-conductor disk. A detailed compilation of information about this experiment is available on the web at http://www.inetarena.com/~noetic/pls/gravity.html. 27. Weak Gravitational Shielding Properties of Composite Bulk Yba2Cu3O7-x Superconductor Below 70K Under EM Field, Eugene Podkletnov, LANL Physics Preprint Server, Cond-Mat/9701074, January 1997. Podkletnov provides greater detail about his experimental apparatus and the construction of the superconductor disk. Available on the web at http://www.gravity.org/msu.html. Additional Sources The following items give the technical details of NASA's ongoing work to replicate Podkletnov's experiment. Dr. Li, mentioned elsewhere in this paper, is one of the researchers. http://ro.com/~preavis/Delta-G/Physica-C.htm Static Test for A Gravitational Force Coupled to Type II YBCO Superconductors, Ning Li*, David Noever, Tony Robertson, Ron Koczor, and Whitt Brantley NASA Marshall Space Flight Center, Huntsville, AL 35812 and *The University of Alabama in Huntsville, Huntsville, AL, 35804. Physica C Preprint. http://ro.com/~preavis/Delta-G/Delta-G_investig.htm High Temperature Superconductor Research (Project 96-07), Investigators: R.J. Koczor/EA01, D.A. Noever/ES76, G.A. Robertson/EP32, Ning Li/UAH. The following items by Modanese are the most detailed theoretical analyses of the Tampere Effect given to date. Modanese's basic idea is that the rotating superconductor is a macroscopic quantum-coherent state (Bose-Einstein condensate) which affects gravity by means of modifying Einstein's cosmological constant term in the gravity-field equations. This mechanism appears to be different from, but possibly closely related to, the gravitomagnetic field discussed above in this article. In any case, it is plausible to think, or at least to suggest, that the unpaired nuclear spins in Wallace's special materials also comprise a macroscopic quantum-coherent state and thus could act as proposed by Modanese's theory. http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/9612022. Possible quantum gravity effects in a charged Bose condensate under variable e.m. field, G. Modanese, J. Schnurer. http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/hep-th/9601160. Role of a "Local" Cosmological Constant in Euclidean Quantum Gravity, G. Modanese. Phys.Rev. D54 (1996) 5002-5009 http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/hep-th/9508018. General properties of the decay amplitudes for massless particles Authors: G. Fiore, G. Modanese. Nucl.Phys. B477 (1996) 623-651. http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/hep-th/9505094. Theoretical analysis of a reported weak gravitational shielding effect, G. Modanese. Europhys.Lett. 35 (1996) 413-418. http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/hep-th/9410086. Vacuum correlations at geodesic distance in quantum gravity, G. Modanese (INFN, Trento, and Max-Planck-Institut, Muenchen), report U.T.F. 332, July 94. Riv. Nuovo Cim. 17 (1994). APPENDIX-- SI (MKS) Dimensisons of the Gravitomagnetic Field. Gravitoelectric Charge = Kg (in purely electrical units, Kg = (Weber/Meter)(Coul/Meter)(Sec) Gravitoelectric Field = Meter/Sec-Squared Gravitoelectric Flux Density = Kg/Meter-Squared Mass Current = Kg/Sec = (Weber/Meter)(Coul/Meter) Gravitomagnetic Dipole Moment = (Kg)(Meter-Squared)/Sec = Angular Momentum = (Coulomb)(Weber) Gravitoelectric Dipole Moment = (Kg)(Meter) (You would need the equivalent of negative mass to make one of these) Gravitomagnetic Charge = (Velocity)(Meter) = Square-Meter/Sec Gravitomagnetic Field = (Mass Current)/Meter = Kg/Sec-Meter = ((Kg)(Meter^2)/Sec)/Meter^3 = Spin Density = Angular Momentum/Cubic-Meter = (Coulomb)(Weber)/Cubic-Meter Gravitomagnetic Flux Density = (Gravitomagnetic Charge)/Meter^2 = Velocity/Meter = 1/Sec = Angular Velocity Gravitoelectric Scalar Potential = Joule/Kg = (Acceleration)(Meter) = (Gravitoelectric Field)(Meter) = Velocity-Squared = Meter-Squared/Second-Squared Gravitomagnetic Vector Potential = (Gravitomagnetic Charge)/Meter = Velocity = Meter/Sec Gravitoelectric Permitivity = Gravitoelectric Flux per Gravitoelectric Field = (Kg)(Second-Squared)/(Cubic Meter) = 1/4(Pi)(G) = 1.1927E09 Kg-Sec^2/Meter^3 Gravitomagnetic Permeability = Gravitomagnetic Flux per Gravitomagnetic Field = Meter/Kg Assuming Transverse Gravitational Waves Propagate at Light Speed -- = 1/(c-squared)(epsilon0) = 9.316E-27 Meter/Kg -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o- Mars Surface Anomaly Analysis Possible artifacts on Mars http://www.mufor.org/ares/ The M-TRAC Project A private, unmanned mission to Mars http://www.mufor.org/mtrac/ ______________________________________________________________________ Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 17:42:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA27127; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:38:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:38:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199810070039.TAA10265@neon.prysm.net> From: "Robert H. Calloway" To: Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:27:28 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cMlK03.0.fd6.3Wh6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6834 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- > From: Lee Markland > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge > Date: Monday, October 05, 1998 12:33 PM > > At 09:04 PM 10/4/98 -0400, you wrote: > >> >>> >> > If these "great minds" had got off to a wrong start conceptually, and error > has been propounded by adding on to error, and if each new discovery, each > anomaly encountered, each new observation instead of causing "great minds" > to revisit theory, merely had the effect of these great minds to go to the > blackboard and modify their original equations, how much closer to the > truth are we. How much have we really advanced our knowledge? >> >Hello Lee, I have never seen this stated better. Regards, Robert H. Calloway From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 18:20:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA09501; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:18:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:18:56 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 18:19:50 -0700 From: "bob macelvain" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: on X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: How magnets work for health X-Sender-Ip: 209.12.236.244 Organization: MailCity (http://www.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"R0XO43.0.NK2.06i6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6835 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ...dennis... ... ...per your diabetic kitten... ... ...sure would appreciate private post with details per origin of your therapy... ... ...thanks... ... ...bob... Get your FREE E-mail at http://mailcity.lycos.com Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://personal.lycos.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 18:43:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA15736; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:40:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:40:40 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981006091714.00a32970@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 09:17:14 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: How magnets work for health In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19981006221753.00d8cc7c@popd.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"4jYXE3.0.nr3.OQi6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6836 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Opposites attract huh. Couldn't have anything to do with flows, like electrons or some such, could it? I mean two flows pushing against each other and hence repelling? Nah, it is easier to say opposites attract. Except of course when choosing friends and mates, then it's birds of a feather flocking together. I break a bar magnet in half and the flows continue in the same direction, only now I paint one broken end white and the other broken end red and call one end south and the other north. But it can't be flows though. Maybe I should paint the open end of my garden hoses red and put a plus sign on them. Just being facetious :) Lee the moron. At 06:17 PM 10/6/98 -0400, you wrote: >I forgot to mention that the south pole of a compass is marked as the north >pole because opposites attract. Also, Wateroz.com probably has the best >minerals since they are water soluble. Sorry for the cross post but I want >to clarify the compass pole marking issue. > >Dennis > > >At 10:28 AM 10/5/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Hey Dennis: Thanks for the info, especially about diabetes. I'm keeping >>this one. It should work in humans as well. > > >Tall Ships >http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 18:44:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA15781; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:40:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:40:47 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981006102957.00a32ac0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 10:29:57 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Question on magnetic star (off topic) In-Reply-To: <361A9C52.DBD971E3@GroupZ.net> References: <3614ABC1.46034452@GroupZ.net> <36159961.2227B185@erols.com> <3.0.5.32.19981003004556.00a139d0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19981004033326.00a2c600@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19981005090453.00a1d3c0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qOb_D.0.Vs3.UQi6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6837 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Your right, weight would vary with gravity, or when an object is within a gravitational field. But consider that all planets in this solar system are within the gravitational field of the sun, therefore when weighing the planets (, if we could so such, we would have to do such in relation to the gravitational field of the sun. Question then how much would the moon or the Earth weigh in terms of the Sun. However Volume-Denisity would remain the same, regardless of the environment. What you call inertial mass would seem to me to be dependent on the greatest gravitational field within its sphere of influence. For instance the inertial mass of an object within the confines our solar system would, it seems to me, be different than the inertial mass within the confines of a system within the confines of a much larger sun, with a stronger gravity. Here's why. Whether we can grasp the idea of weight, as regards say the Earth or the moon or an asteroid. These bodies do have weight as regards the gravitational pull of the sun. And if there is one thing we know it is that f=ma and on Earth the value for m is weight. Therefore in space the value for m should also be weight, but what weight? We have satellites orbiting the Earth. We talk of astronauts and space shuttles being in a zero gravity environment, however that isn't true. At a distance of 1400 km from Earth, approx or 875 miles, the gravitational pull of the Earth is .64 that of Earth, therefore an object at 875 miles from Earth will be accelerating (initially) at the rate of 20.68 ft per second ^2 toward the Earth. At a distance from the Earth of approximately 207,000 miles the acceleration rate of an object toward the Earth is roughly equal to the acceleration rate of the same object towards the moon. Anything occupying this hypothetical point would have no weight at all. However since spacecraft transit this hypothetical point the portions that are aft of the point still have weight and inertia behind them, Although not so great as that which would be experienced on Earth, and this inertial weight would push them through the neutral point. When our astronauts try to manuever stuff like the Hubble telescope, they aren't pushing around weightless objects. The standard orbital altitude is in the vicinity of 118 miles, given that then an object that weighs 1000 lbs on Earth will weigh about 942 lbs at 118 miles up and the rate of fall of that object toward Earth (if it were allowed to fall, and not accelerated to fall around the Earth) would be about 30.36 ft per second^2 (anyone want to check my math). Therefore the inertial mass of an object would vary depending on how far it is from the object with the greater gravitational pull. What would be the impact on an object of something that was accelerating at say the rate of 100 mph (relative to Earth) and weighed less than one gram and something that was accelerating at 100 mph (relative to Earth) and weighed 1000 kilograms f=ma, where m=weight. Let's hypothetically move out in space, in an opposite direction of the Sun and the moon - say at the time of a solar eclipse to a distance of 100 Earth radi (3,960,000 miles). At that distance the rate of fall towards the Earth of an object would be 0.0322 ft per second squared and a 1000 kilogram object would weigh 1000/1000 = 1 gram. f=ma = 100 grams. Considering that a catcher can easily catch a baseball traveling at 100 mph and a baseball (I don't know how much one weighs) would seem to weigh about 100 grams. Then, if I were standing on a surface in space I should very easily be able to catch this object that weighs 1000 kilograms on Earth (is my math correct?) So what is the inertial mass of an object traveling at any rate at a location of 3,960,000 miles from the Earth versus one that is the same rate only 118 miles up in space? And Mercury which is much closer to the sun, and thus falling (orbiting) at a greater velocity due to its proximity to that source of gravity, would have more inertial mass than say Venus, Earth or Mars and poor Pluto would have hardly any at all. Therefore, it seems to me, that when calculating "inertial" mass one must calculate it's distance from the source of gravity(ies) - can't forget the gravitational force of the sun, the fact that weight and rate of fall falls off by the inverse square of the distance from its source - and it's weight relative to something be it the Earth, moon or the Sun. At least that is what NASA does when it launches its spacecraft to the moon or to beyond Jupiter. So weight does count, relative to something. The problem is that we can't weigh any of the planetary objects. Just the stuff we launch from Earth. And now we know why the astronauts have difficulty manhandling the Hubble. It still weighs about 0.942 that of what it weighs on Earth. It seems that even "inertial mass" falls off by the inverse square as the distance between the object and the nearest source of gravity widens. That's the way I see it. Lee At 06:40 PM 10/6/98 -0400, you wrote: >Lee..I like the inertia definition, because I think that >Puthoff is correct, and it is a function of the zero point >field...since the field itself is probably pretty constant >over the whole of space, mass would stay the same...it appears that >"volumn density", weight could vary as gravity could vary...steve > >Lee Markland wrote: >> >> Interesting indeed. We seem to agree. Now I wonder how much a neutrino >> would weigh. Considering that it is suppose to have "mass". >> >> Gawwd, I hate that word "mass" because it is usually defined by its >> "attractive characteristic". Would it be alright to refer to something as >> having volume density - hence weight. >> >> Lee >> >> At 08:23 PM 10/4/98 -0400, you wrote: >> >Lee - glad you agree that anything with inertia also is >> >called "having mass"...I think we agree such things as >> >radio waves, light waves, x=rays, etc., all do not have >> >inertia...therefore they do not have mass...my question >> >was, and is, are there any other things from this event >> >that may reach the earth at a later time...I am assuming >> >that these "things" would have mass, and for that reason >> >arrive later....one of the possibilities that was brought >> >up was neutrino's, if these particles exist, and if they >> >have mass they may arrive at a later time...my further >> >question was then, if they arrive, could we tell the >> >weight of them...based on difference from the arrival >> >of the x-rays/gamma rays to the time of the neutrino's >> >...so this is where we are now, I think ...hope this >> >statement meets with your approval ...thanks for your >> >reply....steve >> > >> > >> >Lee Markland wrote: >> >> >> >> I'm glad you inserted the caveat "if" a neutrino has mass. I think >> >> it >> >> unfortunate that physicists have chosen to believe (because of >> >> belief in >> >> Einstein) that there are sub atomic particles like neutrino's, >> >> neutrons, >> >> protons, photon's, etc. >> >> >> >> This way of conceptualizing the universe is merely nothing more than >> >> a more >> >> complicated version of Newton's own theory of everything. >> >> >> >> Newton was a corpuscularean (following on the footsteps of Plato). >> >> To him >> >> everything, including light, was little corpuscles. It seems we are >> >> still >> >> dragging that baggage around with us, and perhaps limiting the reach >> >> of our >> >> knowledge and technical advance. >> >> >> >> As I posted previously. The Students of Prof A. Micelson, discovered >> >> in a >> >> mile long evacuated tunnel under the Pasadena Mts (on what is now >> >> JPL >> >> property) that the speed of light is not constant, but varies and >> >> does so >> >> (somehow) by the seasons. Therefore, to me the equation E=mc^2 is >> >> false, it >> >> has to be if light is a variable and not a constant. >> >> >> >> I am also aware that 1 1/2 miles deep in the Homestead Mine, there >> >> is a vat >> >> of cleaning fluid and every once in a while something triggers a >> >> receptor >> >> that makes a flashbulb pop, and that is suppose to prove the >> >> existence of >> >> neutrino's. But does it really. >> >> >> >> I know also that I can hit a button on my remote device and change >> >> channels. Does that mean there are little corpuscles flying from the >> >> remote >> >> to the TV? >> >> >> >> I know that the neutron was a concept created to account for weight. >> >> Weight >> >> is a concept that has been totally debased by the concept of mass. >> >> What >> >> gives something weight has never been able to be seperated from the >> >> thing >> >> that weighs, and thus we accept gravity as a force that gives things >> >> weight >> >> because gravity is a part of the thing itself (Circular Reasoning). >> >> We don't need the proton in the nucleus of the atom, either. >> >> Polarity is >> >> not necessary because there is no reason to apply the concept that >> >> opposites attract (and they don't, not in nature not in people - >> >> birds of a >> >> feather flock together is more like it). >> >> The concept of opposite's attracting, a concept made up to describe >> >> the >> >> physical behavior of magnets, being applied to an atom is >> >> unnecessary and >> >> also distracting - it shunts science down a dead end siding. >> >> >> >> But it hasn't stopped at neutrons and protons, now it is neutrino's >> >> and >> >> photon's, dark matter, snowflakes, quarks, rainbows, charms, sweets >> >> - a >> >> whole zoology of sub atomic particles and are we getting any closer >> >> to >> >> understanding the universe. Are we able to take all of these >> >> zoomorphs and >> >> translate them into practicalities? >> >> >> >> I dun think so. Haven't seen anything useful come from this field of >> >> metaphysics yet, except to provide script material for StarTrek, >> >> StarGate >> >> and Babylon 5. >> >> >> >> I would think that anything which one could call mass is something >> >> that one >> >> could put in their hands and weigh, or store in a safe place in a >> >> jar. When >> >> in motion it has "inertia" and that can be measure by the simple >> >> equation >> >> f=ma or as I prefer f=wa, where w=weight. >> >> When Professor Self Absorbed, emerges from the Homestead Mine with >> >> a >> >> thimble full of neutrino's, then I will believe that there do indeed >> >> exist >> >> neutrino's. >> >> >> >> Matter has two propensities. It is either in motion or it is at >> >> rest. If it >> >> is at rest, it is because something else (that itself is moving) is >> >> impeding the progress of its journey. >> >> >> >> But I can't think of anything that is completely at rest. My chair >> >> is >> >> sitting on a floor, If I pulled out the floor the chair would >> >> continue it's >> >> journey towards the source of the attractive force, thus it has a >> >> force >> >> acting on it all time (giving it weight). However the floor is >> >> sitting on a >> >> planet that is moving in the following manner. >> >> >> >> 1. It is rotating >> >> 2. It is orbiting the sun >> >> 3. It is lagging the sun as the sun moves through the galaxy >> >> (revisiting my >> >> analysis of Kepler's 2d Law) >> >> 4. The Galaxy itself is in motion. >> >> >> >> Therefore the idea of at rest is only relative. Relative to the >> >> observor. >> >> >> >> To return to the subject. Are radio transmissions made up of little >> >> corpuscles? Is EM of a corpuscularean nature? If not, and if not >> >> necessary, >> >> then why do we think that there are such things as neutrino's and >> >> that they >> >> have mass? >> >> >> >> Because that is what Daddy told us? >> >> >> >> Lee >> >> >> >> At 09:19 PM 10/3/98 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >OK Lee, I'll bite, as I understand mass...it is anything that shows >> >> >the property >> >> >we call inertia...the more the mass the more the inertia that is >> >> shown >> >> >at equal >> >> >speeds... >> >> > >> >> >Anything that has mass, as it gets closer and closer to the speed >> >> of >> >> >light, takes >> >> >more and more energy to get it to go faster..(e=mc^2 or >> >> >c^=m/e)....therefore to >> >> >my way of thinking, anything that has mass will travel slower than >> >> the >> >> >speed of >> >> >light...and if a neutrino has mass, it will arrive later than >> >> >x-rays/gamma rays >> >> >which, having no mass, travel at speed of light....so my thinking >> >> is >> >> >that the >> >> >six hours was caused by neutrinos having mass... >> >> > >> >> >Am waiting to be corrected on any of this .....steve >> >> > >> >> >Lee Markland wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Can you define mass? So that we know what we are calculating? >> >> >> >> >> >> Did it take 5 or 6 hours for this so called "neutrino" burst to >> >> reach >> >> >> Earth, meaning it traveled at subliminal speeds? What an emission >> >> of >> >> >> radiation from a supernova travel at subliminal speeds while the >> >> light >> >> >> traveled at a higher rate of speed? >> >> >> >> >> >> Or did it take 5 or 6 hours of chain reaction, after the star >> >> went >> >> >> supernova, before this radiation we call neutrino's was released? >> >> >> >> >> >> Are these valid questons? >> >> >> >> >> >> Lee >> >> >> >> >> >> At 11:42 PM 10/2/98 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >> >Jim...since there were six hours from a relatively close >> >> >> >supernova, does that mean. because of the extreme distance of >> >> >> >this star we can expect a neutrino burst at some future >> >> >> >time.... >> >> >> >and can we calculate the mass from this burst when it arrives >> >> ??....to >> >> >> >verify the estimated mass of neutrino we have now....steve >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Jim Farrer wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Dear "sno" >> >> >> >> Several years ago, an astronomer returning from lunch at Cerro >> >> Tollolo >> >> >> >> (sp?) observatory in Chile noticed a star shining where none >> >> should be. >> >> >> >> He checked, and sure enough, no such bright star should have >> >> been there. >> >> >> >> Reported it instantly, and is thus the discoverer of a super >> >> nova. >> >> Due to >> >> >> >> his fast notification and our great world wide comm systems, I >> >> have read >> >> >> >> that the Neutrino detection teams all over the world were able >> >> to >> >> prepare >> >> >> >> for and register the arrival of the neutrino burst some 5 or 6 >> >> hours >> >> >> >> later. Recently it has been found that one of the three >> >> neutron types >> >> >> >> carries a very small amount of mass, thus cannot travel at >> >> exactly light >> >> >> >> speed. The other two types are also expected to be found to >> >> posses >> >> mass. >> >> >> >> Can anyone else verify or correct what I've so hazily >> >> recalled? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jim Farrer >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> sno wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Was wondering about the x-rays and gamma rays from the >> >> magnetic star >> >> >> >> > that arrived >> >> >> >> > 27 Sep....I assume that they were traveling at speed of >> >> light, are >> >> >> >> > there any other >> >> >> >> > particles that may have been emitted by this burst, that may >> >> arrive at >> >> >> >> > a later time ??? >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > If so, is there any chance that they could reach the earths >> >> surface, I >> >> >> >> > understand that >> >> >> >> > the x-rays and gamma rays were absorbed by the >> >> >> >> > atmosphere....thanks...steve opelc >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 19:51:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA10716; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:47:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:47:36 -0700 Message-ID: <361AD67E.D0E329F9@GroupZ.net> Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 22:48:30 -0400 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Question on magnetic star (off topic) References: <3614ABC1.46034452@GroupZ.net> <36159961.2227B185@erols.com> <3.0.5.32.19981003004556.00a139d0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19981004033326.00a2c600@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19981005090453.00a1d3c0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19981006102957.00a32ac0@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fw2uA1.0.Gd2.7Pj6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6838 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Will let someone else argue my position, if it agrees with theirs...... Am still waiting to find out if particles from magstar will arrive...thanks for all your responses.....steve Lee Markland wrote: > > Your right, weight would vary with gravity, or when an object is within a > gravitational field. But consider that all planets in this solar system are > within the gravitational field of the sun, therefore when weighing the > planets (, if we could so such, we would have to do such in relation to > the gravitational field of the sun. Question then how much would the moon > or the Earth weigh in terms of the Sun. > > However Volume-Denisity would remain the same, regardless of the environment. > > What you call inertial mass would seem to me to be dependent on the > greatest gravitational field within its sphere of influence. > > For instance the inertial mass of an object within the confines our solar > system would, it seems to me, be different than the inertial mass within > the confines of a system within the confines of a much larger sun, with a > stronger gravity. > > Here's why. Whether we can grasp the idea of weight, as regards say the > Earth or the moon or an asteroid. These bodies do have weight as regards > the gravitational pull of the sun. > > And if there is one thing we know it is that f=ma and on Earth the value > for m is weight. > > Therefore in space the value for m should also be weight, but what weight? > > We have satellites orbiting the Earth. We talk of astronauts and space > shuttles being in a zero gravity environment, however that isn't true. > > At a distance of 1400 km from Earth, approx or 875 miles, the gravitational > pull of the Earth is .64 that of Earth, therefore an object at 875 miles > from Earth will be accelerating (initially) at the rate of 20.68 ft per > second ^2 toward the Earth. At a distance from the Earth of approximately > 207,000 miles > the acceleration rate of an object toward the Earth is roughly equal to the > acceleration rate of the same object towards the moon. > > Anything occupying this hypothetical point would have no weight at all. > However since spacecraft transit this hypothetical point the portions that > are aft of the point still have weight and inertia behind them, Although > not so great as that which would be experienced on Earth, and this inertial > weight would push them through the neutral point. > > When our astronauts try to manuever stuff like the Hubble telescope, they > aren't pushing around weightless objects. > > The standard orbital altitude is in the vicinity of 118 miles, given that > then an object that weighs 1000 lbs on Earth will weigh about 942 lbs at > 118 miles up and the rate of fall of that object toward Earth (if it were > allowed to fall, and not accelerated to fall around the Earth) would be > about 30.36 ft per second^2 (anyone want to check my math). > > Therefore the inertial mass of an object would vary depending on how far it > is from the object with the greater gravitational pull. > > What would be the impact on an object of something that was accelerating at > say the rate of 100 mph (relative to Earth) and weighed less than one gram > and something that was accelerating at 100 mph (relative to Earth) and > weighed 1000 kilograms f=ma, where m=weight. > > Let's hypothetically move out in space, in an opposite direction of the Sun > and the moon - say at the time of a solar eclipse to a distance of 100 > Earth radi (3,960,000 miles). At that distance the rate of fall towards the > Earth of an object would be 0.0322 ft per second squared and a 1000 > kilogram object would weigh 1000/1000 = 1 gram. f=ma = 100 grams. > > Considering that a catcher can easily catch a baseball traveling at 100 mph > and a baseball (I don't know how much one weighs) would seem to weigh about > 100 grams. Then, if I were standing on a surface in space I should very > easily be able to catch this object that weighs 1000 kilograms on Earth (is > my math correct?) > > So what is the inertial mass of an object traveling at any rate at a > location of 3,960,000 miles from the Earth versus one that is the same rate > only 118 miles up in space? > > And Mercury which is much closer to the sun, and thus falling (orbiting) at > a greater velocity due to its proximity to that source of gravity, would > have more inertial mass than say Venus, Earth or Mars and poor Pluto would > have hardly any at all. > > Therefore, it seems to me, that when calculating "inertial" mass one must > calculate it's distance from the source of gravity(ies) - can't forget the > gravitational force of the sun, the fact that weight and rate of fall falls > off by the inverse square of the distance from its source - and it's weight > relative to something be it the Earth, moon or the Sun. > > At least that is what NASA does when it launches its spacecraft to the moon > or to beyond Jupiter. > > So weight does count, relative to something. The problem is that we can't > weigh any of the planetary objects. Just the stuff we launch from Earth. > > And now we know why the astronauts have difficulty manhandling the Hubble. > It still weighs about 0.942 that of what it weighs on Earth. > > It seems that even "inertial mass" falls off by the inverse square as the > distance between the object and the nearest source of gravity widens. > > That's the way I see it. > > Lee > > At 06:40 PM 10/6/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Lee..I like the inertia definition, because I think that > >Puthoff is correct, and it is a function of the zero point > >field...since the field itself is probably pretty constant > >over the whole of space, mass would stay the same...it appears that > >"volumn density", weight could vary as gravity could vary...steve > > > >Lee Markland wrote: > >> > >> Interesting indeed. We seem to agree. Now I wonder how much a neutrino > >> would weigh. Considering that it is suppose to have "mass". > >> > >> Gawwd, I hate that word "mass" because it is usually defined by its > >> "attractive characteristic". Would it be alright to refer to something as > >> having volume density - hence weight. > >> > >> Lee > >> > >> At 08:23 PM 10/4/98 -0400, you wrote: > >> >Lee - glad you agree that anything with inertia also is > >> >called "having mass"...I think we agree such things as > >> >radio waves, light waves, x=rays, etc., all do not have > >> >inertia...therefore they do not have mass...my question > >> >was, and is, are there any other things from this event > >> >that may reach the earth at a later time...I am assuming > >> >that these "things" would have mass, and for that reason > >> >arrive later....one of the possibilities that was brought > >> >up was neutrino's, if these particles exist, and if they > >> >have mass they may arrive at a later time...my further > >> >question was then, if they arrive, could we tell the > >> >weight of them...based on difference from the arrival > >> >of the x-rays/gamma rays to the time of the neutrino's > >> >...so this is where we are now, I think ...hope this > >> >statement meets with your approval ...thanks for your > >> >reply....steve > >> > > >> > > >> >Lee Markland wrote: > >> >> > >> >> I'm glad you inserted the caveat "if" a neutrino has mass. I think > >> >> it > >> >> unfortunate that physicists have chosen to believe (because of > >> >> belief in > >> >> Einstein) that there are sub atomic particles like neutrino's, > >> >> neutrons, > >> >> protons, photon's, etc. > >> >> > >> >> This way of conceptualizing the universe is merely nothing more than > >> >> a more > >> >> complicated version of Newton's own theory of everything. > >> >> > >> >> Newton was a corpuscularean (following on the footsteps of Plato). > >> >> To him > >> >> everything, including light, was little corpuscles. It seems we are > >> >> still > >> >> dragging that baggage around with us, and perhaps limiting the reach > >> >> of our > >> >> knowledge and technical advance. > >> >> > >> >> As I posted previously. The Students of Prof A. Micelson, discovered > >> >> in a > >> >> mile long evacuated tunnel under the Pasadena Mts (on what is now > >> >> JPL > >> >> property) that the speed of light is not constant, but varies and > >> >> does so > >> >> (somehow) by the seasons. Therefore, to me the equation E=mc^2 is > >> >> false, it > >> >> has to be if light is a variable and not a constant. > >> >> > >> >> I am also aware that 1 1/2 miles deep in the Homestead Mine, there > >> >> is a vat > >> >> of cleaning fluid and every once in a while something triggers a > >> >> receptor > >> >> that makes a flashbulb pop, and that is suppose to prove the > >> >> existence of > >> >> neutrino's. But does it really. > >> >> > >> >> I know also that I can hit a button on my remote device and change > >> >> channels. Does that mean there are little corpuscles flying from the > >> >> remote > >> >> to the TV? > >> >> > >> >> I know that the neutron was a concept created to account for weight. > >> >> Weight > >> >> is a concept that has been totally debased by the concept of mass. > >> >> What > >> >> gives something weight has never been able to be seperated from the > >> >> thing > >> >> that weighs, and thus we accept gravity as a force that gives things > >> >> weight > >> >> because gravity is a part of the thing itself (Circular Reasoning). > >> >> We don't need the proton in the nucleus of the atom, either. > >> >> Polarity is > >> >> not necessary because there is no reason to apply the concept that > >> >> opposites attract (and they don't, not in nature not in people - > >> >> birds of a > >> >> feather flock together is more like it). > >> >> The concept of opposite's attracting, a concept made up to describe > >> >> the > >> >> physical behavior of magnets, being applied to an atom is > >> >> unnecessary and > >> >> also distracting - it shunts science down a dead end siding. > >> >> > >> >> But it hasn't stopped at neutrons and protons, now it is neutrino's > >> >> and > >> >> photon's, dark matter, snowflakes, quarks, rainbows, charms, sweets > >> >> - a > >> >> whole zoology of sub atomic particles and are we getting any closer > >> >> to > >> >> understanding the universe. Are we able to take all of these > >> >> zoomorphs and > >> >> translate them into practicalities? > >> >> > >> >> I dun think so. Haven't seen anything useful come from this field of > >> >> metaphysics yet, except to provide script material for StarTrek, > >> >> StarGate > >> >> and Babylon 5. > >> >> > >> >> I would think that anything which one could call mass is something > >> >> that one > >> >> could put in their hands and weigh, or store in a safe place in a > >> >> jar. When > >> >> in motion it has "inertia" and that can be measure by the simple > >> >> equation > >> >> f=ma or as I prefer f=wa, where w=weight. > >> >> When Professor Self Absorbed, emerges from the Homestead Mine with > >> >> a > >> >> thimble full of neutrino's, then I will believe that there do indeed > >> >> exist > >> >> neutrino's. > >> >> > >> >> Matter has two propensities. It is either in motion or it is at > >> >> rest. If it > >> >> is at rest, it is because something else (that itself is moving) is > >> >> impeding the progress of its journey. > >> >> > >> >> But I can't think of anything that is completely at rest. My chair > >> >> is > >> >> sitting on a floor, If I pulled out the floor the chair would > >> >> continue it's > >> >> journey towards the source of the attractive force, thus it has a > >> >> force > >> >> acting on it all time (giving it weight). However the floor is > >> >> sitting on a > >> >> planet that is moving in the following manner. > >> >> > >> >> 1. It is rotating > >> >> 2. It is orbiting the sun > >> >> 3. It is lagging the sun as the sun moves through the galaxy > >> >> (revisiting my > >> >> analysis of Kepler's 2d Law) > >> >> 4. The Galaxy itself is in motion. > >> >> > >> >> Therefore the idea of at rest is only relative. Relative to the > >> >> observor. > >> >> > >> >> To return to the subject. Are radio transmissions made up of little > >> >> corpuscles? Is EM of a corpuscularean nature? If not, and if not > >> >> necessary, > >> >> then why do we think that there are such things as neutrino's and > >> >> that they > >> >> have mass? > >> >> > >> >> Because that is what Daddy told us? > >> >> > >> >> Lee > >> >> > >> >> At 09:19 PM 10/3/98 -0400, you wrote: > >> >> >OK Lee, I'll bite, as I understand mass...it is anything that shows > >> >> >the property > >> >> >we call inertia...the more the mass the more the inertia that is > >> >> shown > >> >> >at equal > >> >> >speeds... > >> >> > > >> >> >Anything that has mass, as it gets closer and closer to the speed > >> >> of > >> >> >light, takes > >> >> >more and more energy to get it to go faster..(e=mc^2 or > >> >> >c^=m/e)....therefore to > >> >> >my way of thinking, anything that has mass will travel slower than > >> >> the > >> >> >speed of > >> >> >light...and if a neutrino has mass, it will arrive later than > >> >> >x-rays/gamma rays > >> >> >which, having no mass, travel at speed of light....so my thinking > >> >> is > >> >> >that the > >> >> >six hours was caused by neutrinos having mass... > >> >> > > >> >> >Am waiting to be corrected on any of this .....steve > >> >> > > >> >> >Lee Markland wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Can you define mass? So that we know what we are calculating? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Did it take 5 or 6 hours for this so called "neutrino" burst to > >> >> reach > >> >> >> Earth, meaning it traveled at subliminal speeds? What an emission > >> >> of > >> >> >> radiation from a supernova travel at subliminal speeds while the > >> >> light > >> >> >> traveled at a higher rate of speed? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Or did it take 5 or 6 hours of chain reaction, after the star > >> >> went > >> >> >> supernova, before this radiation we call neutrino's was released? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Are these valid questons? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Lee > >> >> >> > >> >> >> At 11:42 PM 10/2/98 -0400, you wrote: > >> >> >> >Jim...since there were six hours from a relatively close > >> >> >> >supernova, does that mean. because of the extreme distance of > >> >> >> >this star we can expect a neutrino burst at some future > >> >> >> >time.... > >> >> >> >and can we calculate the mass from this burst when it arrives > >> >> ??....to > >> >> >> >verify the estimated mass of neutrino we have now....steve > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Jim Farrer wrote: > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Dear "sno" > >> >> >> >> Several years ago, an astronomer returning from lunch at Cerro > >> >> Tollolo > >> >> >> >> (sp?) observatory in Chile noticed a star shining where none > >> >> should be. > >> >> >> >> He checked, and sure enough, no such bright star should have > >> >> been there. > >> >> >> >> Reported it instantly, and is thus the discoverer of a super > >> >> nova. > >> >> Due to > >> >> >> >> his fast notification and our great world wide comm systems, I > >> >> have read > >> >> >> >> that the Neutrino detection teams all over the world were able > >> >> to > >> >> prepare > >> >> >> >> for and register the arrival of the neutrino burst some 5 or 6 > >> >> hours > >> >> >> >> later. Recently it has been found that one of the three > >> >> neutron types > >> >> >> >> carries a very small amount of mass, thus cannot travel at > >> >> exactly light > >> >> >> >> speed. The other two types are also expected to be found to > >> >> posses > >> >> mass. > >> >> >> >> Can anyone else verify or correct what I've so hazily > >> >> recalled? > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Jim Farrer > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> sno wrote: > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Was wondering about the x-rays and gamma rays from the > >> >> magnetic star > >> >> >> >> > that arrived > >> >> >> >> > 27 Sep....I assume that they were traveling at speed of > >> >> light, are > >> >> >> >> > there any other > >> >> >> >> > particles that may have been emitted by this burst, that may > >> >> arrive at > >> >> >> >> > a later time ??? > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > If so, is there any chance that they could reach the earths > >> >> surface, I > >> >> >> >> > understand that > >> >> >> >> > the x-rays and gamma rays were absorbed by the > >> >> >> >> > atmosphere....thanks...steve opelc > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 20:51:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA03243; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:48:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:48:24 -0700 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981005103446.00a1d100@rockisland.com> References: <36195A83.675B@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <3.0.5.32.19980930223939.00869410@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19960110071128.00a0d2b0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980930192839.008673e0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981001115528.00a14980@rockisland.com> <199810020519.BAA05618@fh102.infi.net> <3.0.5.32.19981002191646.0086ca10@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:03:16 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge Resent-Message-ID: <"i_g7J.0.bo.8Ik6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6839 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >In another vein. A local tourist shop sells fountains that emit haze. They >use an electronic device that uses sound to create this haze (fog). I stuck >my finger in the water and it was warm, but not hot or boiling, and this >fog or haze was being created by sound. > >Anyone know what is going on here? I can get the artists name and perhaps >some particulars on the machinery. > >Lee > Probably it is a piezo electric device. If you can find the particulars I would like to know. I want one to make a diffuser for essential oils. Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 21:18:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA12444; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:16:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:16:28 -0700 Message-ID: <13e101bdf1a9$1497c660$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:01:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"V4FJg1.0.M23.Rik6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6840 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >And you are correct about investing effort into life extension, I have a >suspicion that the PTB (powers that be) are availing themselves of >technology and techniques, but not much interested in the prolongation of >the life of the worker slave, as we eventually become an annoyance. Who then would you consider the PTB that we need to look at and examine if they are doing any better, certainly very wealthy people can afford the research. As far as I am aware, keely died, as has many others. Lee do you think the solution is in diet, bio-electrical forces, gene alteration/dna modification etc etc, where is the best answer? I believe extremely long life is possible but it seems we put more money into things that are unimportant than into this kind of research. The one benefit as you stated, sometimes it takes the old generation to die before new ideas can permeate our world. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 21:18:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA12499; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:16:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:16:34 -0700 Message-ID: <13e501bdf1a9$17bbe9c0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:07:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"AhtAG3.0.933.Xik6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6841 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I don't know if this is relevant. But I have long been fascinated by Browns >Gas. I've bought a few pamphlets on it (Brown recently died by the way) Well HE didn't have the answer to life extension either then. >It seems that Browns Gas can sublimate Tungsten (reduce it below the >molecular level) and leave no residue. It also implodes (hence the pop). > >It also seems that something so simple as a low voltage battery, say a clay >battery like those found in the Baghdad Museum, a goat skin and a hose made >of skins and reeds, with the proper mixture of water and nitron(a salt >solution in some variation) is sufficient to set a person to work to carve >a tunnel in rock, with glass smooth walls, such as exist in Peru and Chile. Can you please expand? >In another vein. A local tourist shop sells fountains that emit haze. They >use an electronic device that uses sound to create this haze (fog). I stuck >my finger in the water and it was warm, but not hot or boiling, and this >fog or haze was being created by sound. How much? What is the name of the device? >Anyone know what is going on here? I can get the artists name and perhaps >some particulars on the machinery. Please do. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 21:18:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA12716; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:16:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:16:49 -0700 Message-ID: <13e901bdf1a9$1b13ee60$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:56:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"wR2cX1.0.V63.mik6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6846 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: He seems to correlate a lot of info together. http://galaxy.cau.edu/tsmith/newtech.html#antigravity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 21:18:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA12627; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:16:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:16:42 -0700 Message-ID: <13ea01bdf1a9$1bb29f60$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Mass Nuetrino Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:57:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"VfESP2.0.353.fik6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6844 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://galaxy.cau.edu/tsmith/snu.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 21:19:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA12577; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:16:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:16:38 -0700 Message-ID: <13e701bdf1a9$19c43ce0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:19:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"czRz52.0.K43.bik6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6843 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What has been observed of flame in zero-g environments, say from nasa or from the floating frog scientists, any interesting characteristics? I wonder what happens if you spin the burning material and see what happens to a flame in zero g? >>I will go one bold step further, for those of you who are working directly >>with this technology. Subject the Hydroxy flame to the flame of a candle. >>Just bring it close and record the amplitude of the sound. You will hear a >>tearing, wrenching sound of truly unusual force. Why? I ask you all, who >>have these units. Why? Do a comparative study of an oxy-acetylene tip of >>the same force directed at a candle flame. If it is nothing more than a >>Hydrogen flame, why does this simple test generate that terrible noise? >> > >Awesome. Maybe it is a dischord? Would the "fact" that a hydroxy flame is >imploding, have anything to do with it. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 21:19:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA12549; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:16:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:16:37 -0700 Message-ID: <13e601bdf1a9$18748b60$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Light generation Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:16:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"kMdun2.0.p33.Zik6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6842 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It just seems to me that we could use two non visible frequencies, direct them together at any point in space we wish, like the hypersonic sound, and literally make light out of thin air, the uses could be many. A crystal prism splits white light into other frequencies showing the primary colors, reverse the effect. Perhaps if we could build devices to take say the earths black body radiation, split or combine frequencies - perhaps several times, until light is produced, perhaps a mathematical model is needed with the abundant sources of frequencies that are naturally occuring in our environment, and the recombinations of these summation and difference frequencies that would be required from those natural abundant frequencies to get us to light frequencies in the least number of recombinations. Any takers? >At 09:22 PM 10/4/98 -0400, you wrote: >>At 12:38 AM 10/3/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>If you don't mind the interdiction of a dilletante - I don't see why not. >>>Since Light is part of the EM spectrum why not create light with a >>>summation of frequencies. >>> >>>Lee >>> >>> >>>At 11:03 PM 10/2/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>>Could we use this summation effect of frequencies to produce columns of >>>>light? What would the effeciency be compared to current lighting systems? >>>> >>>>http://www.atcsd.com/HTML/whitepaper.html >>>> >> >> Tesla and Stubblefield both were said to have created light from no >>apparent source. How was this done? >> >> >> >> Woody > >Good question Woody. Maybe someone should be asking and looking. > >Question is with all of these curious and bright minds, why isn't anyone >looking. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 21:22:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA12653; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:16:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:16:44 -0700 Message-ID: <13e201bdf1a9$153f9f20$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:04:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"ElSld3.0.E53.fik6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6845 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well as was said on another list, take an ice skater spinning with two bowling balls, first held in close, then her arms outstretched, then releasing the bowling balls, momentum is always conserved >Thanks, I'll try. To be honest I very much like your description of >electrons and atoms, and how energy is released from them (as if we really >knew). > >I would have a question though about an electron "absorbing" energy to >achieve a higher spin rate. Perhaps, isn't it possible, that what is >happening is that atoms are giving up electrons to the field, thus enabling >a higher spin rate. Kind of like people in a crowd, the more of them there >are, the slower the crowd moves and individuals within the crowd. Strip off >some people (electrons) and the movement can accelerate. > >Crazy idea, just came to me. I just have this notion that electrons don't >absorb anything. They are either given up or acquired. > >Thanks > >Lee Markland > >At 07:16 PM 10/2/98 -0700, you wrote: >>At 12:30 AM 10/3/98 -0700, you wrote: >>> >> >>Dear Lee, >> >>Thank you for taking the time to set back and think a bit. >> >>As far as going too far afield, Please do not in any way limit your >>speculation as to the nature of things. >> >>I suggest the format so that you can do just that but keep you specific >>questions on topic. >> >>Here is an example; >> >>We have been talking about energy, and the general topic is free energy. >> >>You might ask how does hydrogen store energy? >> >>I will go on to answer by describing the loose connection of the valiant >>bond of the electron and how the energy of that electron is capable of >>absorbing energy to move to a higher state, reflected in a more distant >>orbit or faster spin, or both. >> >>That would be on topic. >> >>Next: You might wonder how much energy a hydrogen atom might be able to >>hold. Speculative, but not off topic. >> >> >>This may spur you on to ask how much hydrogen there is in the universe. >>Defiantly, not on topic, but clearly a part of the conversation. >> >>This would fall under free forum, open and non specific, but non the less >>related in some way. >> >>It is my hope that I could then deal with your questions in a more clear, >>manner, of which I would be glad to do! >> >>But pleas do not limit you inquires but understand that some questions that >>you have posed here would take volumes to address, even if I were to give >>my best effort. >> >>This is not to be mean but I have seen you ask what might seem a simple >>question to you, that actually cross about 7 disciplines of science. >>Disciplines that would require a lifetime to be conversant let alone become >>an expert. >> >>All I would hope is that you continue to ask questions, but in turn except >>another, whom might simply and honestly say, "I don't know". >> >>So once again I encourage you, ask away. But follow that simple format. >> >>On-topic: >>Speculative: >>Free forum: >> >>All in the same letter, with clear breaks. >> >>Best >> >>TR Knudtson >> >> >> >>Well Ted, I'll try to be more compassionate, although on my part I'm fairly >>>accustomed (and quite inured) to have folk, especially experts and true >>>believes try to beat up on me. I say try, because I have to permit it for >>>it to happen - but that is a case of personal psychodynamics - beyond the >>>scope of this forum. >>> >>>I am aware though (painfully ) that I can be testy and frustrating, >>>especially since I lack credentials in the things in which I speak. >>>Admittedly a Class A ignoramus. >>> >>>But you really do a good job, when you put your mind to it. Your >>>explanation was definitely clear and succint, easy to follow and very >>>enjoyable and it is those types of communications I enjoy and learn from. >>> >>>A comment if you will permit, however, on "running far afield". I have a >>>lot of life and work experience, including what one would loosely term a >>>think tank (I was amongst other things, a military planner). The most >>>productive planning sessions were those in which we would sit around and >>>let the mind and the scenario's run far afield. >>> >>>Where we screwed up, was in not letting them run far enough afield. I'll >>>give one example. I don't know if you recall that aborted Iranian Hostage >>>Rescue Operation during the Carter Administration. Well that situation was >>>the motivation to create what has become known as Delta Force and finally >>>the Special Operations Command. >>> >>>The planners did not run far afield enough. The overlooked the possibility >>>that the Navy had 60 and 100 ft refueling hoses available for the Sea >>>Stallions. And hence a Naval Supply Officer provided 4 100 ft hoses and one >>>60 ft hose for the refueling operation. >>> >>>It was the 60' ft hose that resulted in the Sea Stallion trying to lift off >>>and reposition itself, kicking up a sand storm, obscuring vision and >>>resulting in the rotor blades slicing into the C130 "Bladder Bird". >>> >>>There's a little critter in the back of my brain that keeps whispering, >>>that it the expanded imagination and the questioning of orthodoxy that >>>accounts for human progress. >>> >>>Although I will admit I've been on some forums where the "expanded >>>imagination" gets a little too much for my stomach - as it runs very >>>heavily into the metaphysical and the circular - real woo woo (New Age >>Stuff). >>> >>>I'm of a very practical frame of mind, and feel that nature is not so >>>complicated as the human mind tends to make it. Although by complicating >>>reality we create niches for ourselves, and thus expand our employment >>>opportunities ..... >>> >>>Thanks Again, and I promise that I will try my very best to behave. >>> >>>By the way, what's it like having to contend with a female senior citizen >>>who isn't into trivia, soap opera's, gossip, recipes or chat rooms? >>> >>>:) >>> >>>Lee Markland >>> >>>At 10:39 PM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>>At 07:11 AM 1/10/96 -0800, you wrote: >>>> >>>>Dear Lee, >>>> >>>>Maybe you and I have had some sort of personal breakthrough, so that now we >>>>can more clearly understand one another. From this point forward, let's >>>>try to be a little more compassionate with each other. >>>> >>>>Yes, I am a teacher. I have a Vocational, teaching credential in theory and >>>>practical electrical, Junior collage level. >>>> >>>>If you like what I had wrote you in our last post, I do encourage you to >>>>re-examine my other postings, as I had suggested. Not to beat a dead >>>>horse! (Smile) ref. Below. >>>> >>>>In them I open some speculation on this new state of mater and energy, >>>>Hydroxy. But also cover in simple terms, some of the existing complex >>>>issues of relativity and inertia. >>>> >>>>I do very much encourage the challenging of excepted models of the >>>>universe, but do caution, that if all is energy as some may surmise, this >>>>conversation can easily run far afield. >>>> >>>>To keep some level of decorum, we may choose to head our letters of with >>>>specifics, and as speculative points are raised, we may discipline >>>>ourselves to making a clear break in our posts, then being free to enter >>>>into conjecture and speculation. It is my hope that in this way others may >>>>find it easier to follow, and respond to specifics as well as dabble along >>>>with us in off topic summaries and or curiosities. I will do my best to >>>>always thoroughly answer and on-topic question, an open option to reserve >>>>comment on the more speculative issues. >>>> >>>>I do not mean to be so dictatorial here, but I would not allow a Willie >>>>nilly approach to learning in my class, and I feel some basic format and >>>>discipline is needed here as well. >>>> >>>>So, the format would look like this. >>>> >>>>On topic: Relevant to the last few posts. >>>> >>>>Speculative: With reference to topic. >>>> >>>>Free forum: Gee! Have you ever wondered about this, or that?????? >>>> >>>>Does this sound workable? On topic, speculative, and free forum. We could >>>>call it (OSF) format? >>>> >>>>Best >>>> >>>>TR Knudtson >>>> >>>> >>>>http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/hydroxy.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Thank you very much for contributing so eloquently to my education. Great >>>>>job, by the way. This one is a keeper (i'll save it in text format). You >>>>>should be a teacher, are you? >>>>> >>>>>I do understand some of this and am familiar with the principle of Hydoxy, >>>>>at least as regards Browns Gas. But this is wonderful stuff. >>>>> >>>>>I understand that energy is stored in matter, like plant food, and >minerals >>>>>and that it can be converted through some action, like a catalyst, to >>>>>energy. And that all matter is merely "bound" energy (does that sound >>>>>correct?) >>>>> >>>>>It is just that when I get into that region known as space, where there >>>>>"appears" to be nothing more than a void, except for the lines of force >>>>>like gravity and "other" EM transmission, that I enounter a difficulty >with >>>>>"stored" energy or a medium, like a sugar cube or a pool of oil. >>>>> >>>>>However space is definitely, not empty, since as you and others have >>>>>pointed out there is a tremendous amount of energy constantly transitting >>>>>space (and our own bodies, and the planet itself). The question then seems >>>>>to me, the ability to tap this transient energy and convert it into a form >>>>>that we can use. >>>>> >>>>>I guess that kind of makes the term free energy, an oxymoron (not my >>>>>intention). >>>>> >>>>>I would wonder if there is a region in our galaxy or any galaxy in which >>>>>there is no energy, transiting - a void in other words. >>>>> >>>>>When I look in the sky I see little spots of light. Light emitted from far >>>>>off stars, and although much diminished by their expansion from the >source, >>>>>these little points of light represent little points of energy. Which it >>>>>seems would have the possibility, given the knowledge and tools, to be >>>>>captured, used and converted to a useable form. >>>>> >>>>>Much like radio frequencies can be used to open car doors, garage doors or >>>>>guide airplanes. >>>>> >>>>>But it seems there are no "pools" of static or stagnant energy just lying >>>>>around. Instead this energy is in constant motion, moving from its source >>>>>and expanding outwards in a sphere and diminishing in strength as it does >>>so. >>>>> >>>>>Does that make sense? >>>>> >>>>>:) >>>>> >>>>>Thanks very much for your time and kind explanation, as I said this is a >>>>>keeper. >>>>> >>>>>Lee >>>>> >>>>>At 07:28 PM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>>>>Dear Lee >>>>>> >>>>>>Electrolyses has been around for more than a Century and a half. Faraday, >>>>>>1833 to be exact. Off the top of my head I can not remember the mans >name, >>>>>>but a contemporary of Faraday, then went on to show that you can recover >>>>>>electricity from the gasses hydrogen and oxygen, 1840 or so. In essence >>>>>>this presents itself as a closed loop energy system. Until our work, >this >>>>>>is where the research stayed, the recombining of gasses to produce >>>>>>electricity is the foundation of Fuel Cell technology. Fuel cell >>>>>>technology, was further developed in the 50s and 60s to provide >>reliable DC >>>>>>power for spacecraft. The nice part of this process it that after the >>>>>>electricity is recovered the gasses recombine to form pure water. If you >>>>>>look at Fuel cell, as a source of power of spacecraft, you get two >>>>>>benefits, electricity and clean water, from stored liquid hydrogen and >>>>>oxygen. >>>>>> >>>>>>All of science has looked for a medium of exchange in energy. This >>quest if >>>>>>you will, is central to Einstein's work to discover what is known as, the >>>>>>grand unified field theory. For more than a century scientists have felt >>>>>>that there must be some universality to energy, in that you can convert >>>>>>back and forth in manifest forms. Like with inertia, or "Kinetic" >energy. >>>>>>Take your car going down the road at high speed, slam on the breaks and >>the >>>>>>tires get hot enough to smoke. Inertia converted to heat! Electricity >>>>>>seems to posses the most convertibility. Inertia or more generally >>>>>>"mechanical" to drive a conductor ( a coil) in a field. Then all >sorts of >>>>>>things can come from this, light, heat, mechanical, radio, even >>>>>>radioactive, in that the common x-ray tube is an electrical device. This >>>>>>general convertibility of all forms of manifest energy is what led >them to >>>>>>look for a medium of exchange, a potential energy that all energies >had in >>>>>>common. >>>>>> >>>>>>Nature has been doing this conversion forever. Through photosynthesis, >>>>>>Chloroplasts, the cells in plants that convert light energy, take water >>and >>>>>>divide it by bonding Hydrogen to carbon. The excess oxygen they give >up to >>>>>>the air, enriching our atmosphere. The carbon they get from >>>>>>carbon-dioxide, direct from the atmosphere, a result of volcanism in the >>>>>>earth's core. >>>>>> >>>>>>You have heard of us, "Humans" described as "carbon based life forms"? >>>>>>Well, carbon may be the building block of all life, but surly hydrogen is >>>>>>the "cement" then in this analogy. The plants busily convert water into >>>>>>what are called "Sacarides", basically sugars, but they do not stop >there. >>>>>>They continue on to build themselves out of this stuff by using oxygen, >>>>>>once again to form linking chains, that the fiber and tubular structures >>>>>>that stalks and leaves are made of. This linking is made by the Hydroxyl >>>>>>bond. Hence the name for the gas that I speak of, Hydroxy. >>>>>> >>>>>>The structure of sugar and starch are similar and can loosely be >described >>>>>>as simple and complex, carbo-hydrates. There are those words again >>"Carbo" >>>>>>or carbon, and Hydro or hydrogen. These Carbohydrates are what we use to >>>>>>gain energy for our life sustaining force. If we eat meat we are still >>>>>>using this energy, just second hand, as stored in the protein >>structures of >>>>>>the meat. This protein structure is called a Polypeptide bond, also >>>>>>hydroxyl in nature. So you and all lining animal life are dependent on >>>>>>Hydroxy for the stuff that makes you. Now, it does not end there. >>>>>> >>>>>>You are no reading these words, and your mind is using electricity in a >>way >>>>>>that allows for though. This is a highly developed electrical process. > We >>>>>>know much about this, but we may still have a wonderment as to where the >>>>>>little electrical generator is that generates all those little sparks in >>>>>>our brains. Well guess what? It turns out that the sugar, remember, >>bonded >>>>>>carbon and hydrogen, is once again very important in this process. In >our >>>>>>brain cells, there are little chambers that allow for a controlled >>reaction >>>>>>of the hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen for this reaction comes from the >>>>>>sugar, and the oxygen comes from the air we breath. >>>>>> >>>>>>Now remember, the air was enriched with the oxygen left over when plants >>>>>>made sugars from carbon by breaking down water, and also to make their >>>>>>stalks, seeds, and leaves. We, breath in this oxygen, and it is >>>>>>transferred to our blood. The blood then carries the oxygen to the >cells. >>>>>> >>>>>>Our brain cells, then use hydrogen and oxygen to make the electricity >that >>>>>>fires the circuitry of our brain. This also is similar to the >functioning >>>>>>of our muscles. The result is the tell tail of the reaction, that being >>>>>>pure water and a discharge of extra oxygen and carbon, in the form of >>>>>>carbon dioxide, the main gas, we breath out. And wouldn't you know it, >>>>>>that is exactly what the trees and plants need to start the process all >>>>>>over again. >>>>>> >>>>>>So, now for review. >>>>>> >>>>>>All energy in the world of living things is dependent on hydrogen and >>>>>>oxygen. >>>>>> >>>>>>Carbon is used to separate these materials, Hydrogen and oxygen, when >>>>>>charged with energy and to form the building blocks for all living >>>>>>structures. >>>>>> >>>>>>Hydroxyl bonds, help in forming the more complex structures of proteins. >>>>>> >>>>>>Proteins are the most primitive structure of all life, which are in >>>>>>essence, Hydroxyl bonds of carbon. >>>>>> >>>>>>Electricity, that is needed to order and facilitate thought, is a >>result of >>>>>>a hydroxyl reaction. >>>>>> >>>>>>So the energy of all life is dependent on the manipulation of two >>elements, >>>>>>hydrogen and oxygen. >>>>>> >>>>>>The study of a specific ratio of these elements then is of value not only >>>>>>as a study of energy, but as well as the study of all life. >>>>>> >>>>>>To learn the nature of energy and how it can be used, stored and >>converted, >>>>>>is a significant part of science. >>>>>> >>>>>>The discovery, testing, evaluating, measuring and capturing of this life >>>>>>force energy is then of value to all of science. >>>>>> >>>>>>But as a battery, I think that is only one aspect of this research, but >>>>>>yes, a battery like thing. But I may draw another analogy as to why I >>have >>>>>>some problem with just looking at this, Hydroxy technology, as only a >>>>>>battery thing. In the more, broad context, a tree could be looked >upon as >>>>>>a battery thing, in that it captures and holds energy, that we can regain >>>>>>as heat and light, as we burn logs in a fireplace on cold withers nights. >>>>>> >>>>>>I also have great reluctance to identify Hydroxy only in biologic >>terms, as >>>>>>it is the mechanical sciences that I feel will most benefit. >>>>>> >>>>>>I do not also want to classify it as a providenceof only a practical >>>>>>science technology, because it redefines many of the perimeters here to >>>>>>held as absolute by theoretic physics. >>>>>> >>>>>>But I hope now that you might see that I was not being vague, but rather >>>>>>looking for you to formulate a more appropriate question. >>>>>> >>>>>>Best regards. >>>>>> >>>>>>TR Knudtson >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>At 11:55 AM 10/1/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>>>>>13 thousands what? Permissible? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Lee >>>>>>> >>>>>>>At 05:26 PM 10/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>>>>>>13 thousandths might be permissable. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>---------- >>>>>>>>> From: Lee Markland >>>>>>>>> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>>>>>>>> Subject: Wisdom and knowledge >>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 8:15 PM >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I mentioned this once before. But a very astute and credential >>>scientist >>>>>>>>> once told me that if a person truly understood what it is they are >>>>>>>>talking >>>>>>>>> about, they could explain it in plain language understandable to a >>>>>>>>student >>>>>>>>> in the 6th grade. Meaning no appeal to jargon or authority. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So I immediately asked him for a plain language explanation of the >>>>>>>>> methodology used by astronomers and physicists to obtain the value >>that >>>>>>>>is >>>>>>>>> given for the mass of the moon (.0129 that of Earth). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Would you believe that he couldn't do such a simple thing. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So I had to do volumes of research to come up with my own answer. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I've thrown the question to a number of self styled experts, only >>to be >>>>>>>>met >>>>>>>>> with evasions, attempts at changing the subject, (including making me >>>>the >>>>>>>>> subject). I've received two answers both of them incomprehensible >to a >>>>>>>>6th >>>>>>>>> grader. One of them outrageously long, telling me to tell the >students >>>>>>>>how >>>>>>>>> much of a genius Newton was, and then later telling me to lie to >>>>them, so >>>>>>>>> as not to confuse them. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I even had a noted astronomer admit that he lies to first year >physics >>>>>>>>> students "for their own good", so as not to confuse them. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It's really simple though, two paragraphs, three at most, and the >>>>>>>>> embarassing thing (at least embarassing if one has integrityand is >>>>>>>>> perceptive) is that the word assumption has to be used a number of >>>>times. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I don't think, however, that I would like to spring it on a 6th >>grader, >>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>> they are still perceptive enough at that age, to notice flaws and ask >>>>>>>>> embarrassing questions, which can only be answered by calling on >>>>>>>>authority >>>>>>>>> or telling them to do some research, or the coup de grace - >attempt to >>>>>>>>> embarass them in public, by denigration and innuendo. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lee >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 21:26:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA24937; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:24:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:24:08 -0700 Message-ID: <142701bdf1aa$206d24c0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: [alienworlds] FW: Wallace-Tampere Article - Final Version Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:21:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"v1SE91.0.Y56.epk6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6847 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Good ole uncle Henry, always the show off at the wallace family reunions, use to whip us all in frisbee - he always said it was in the spin. (grin) >Found the following on another web page. Has anyone seen this? Is Bob >Stirniman on this forum? > >---------- >From: JJ Mercieca[SMTP:mufor@maltanet.net] >Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 4:32 AM >To: cydonia@majordomo.pobox.com >Subject: [M-TRAC - MSAA] Wallace-Tampere Article - Final Version > >A draft of the following article was posted here last April. >A final version is attached below. The article will appear >in the fall edition of Frontier Perspectives, from The Center >for Frontier Sciences at Temple University. Also an abbreviated >form of the article will appear in Vol 27 of Electric Spacecraft >Journal. Many thanks are due the referee at Frontier Sciences >for providing substantial additions and corrections. > >Regards, >Robert Stirniman >=================== >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Final_Article.txt" >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mx1.eskimo.com id >KAA15134 > >The Wallace Inventions, Spin Aligned Nuclei, the Gravitomagnetic >Field, and the Tampere 'Gravity-Shielding' Experiment: Is There a >Connection? > > Robert Stirniman September 1998 > P.O. Box 71407 > Las Vegas NV 89179 > E-mail: robert@skylink.net > >Abstract >Wallace's patents of the early 1970's claim that a rotating >object which contains unpaired nuclear spins can modify gravity. >An explanation in terms of a gravitational analogue to the >magnetic field of electromagnetism has been proposed. >Podkletnov's "gravity shielding" experiment at Tampere, now being >replicated by NASA, may also be an example of the same effect. > > >During the 1960s through the mid 1970s, Henry William Wallace >was a scientist at GE Aerospace in Valley Forge PA, and GE >Re-Entry Systems in Philadelphia. In the early 1970s, Wallace >was issued patents [1,2,3] for some unusual inventions relating >to the gravitational field. Wallace developed an experimental >apparatus for generating and detecting a secondary gravitational >field, which he named the kinemassic field, and which is now >better known as the gravitomagnetic field. > >Wallace's experiments were based on aligning the nuclear >spin of elements and isotopes which have an odd number of >nucleons. These materials are characterized by a total nuclear >spin which is an odd integral multiple of one-half (times >Planck's constant), resulting in one nucleon with un-paired spin. >Wallace drew an analogy between the un-paired angular momentum in >these materials, and the un-paired magnetic moments of electrons >in ferromagnetic materials. > >Wallace created nuclear spin alignment by rapidly spinning a >brass disk. Brass is composed of elements (copper, zinc, etc.) >most of whose isotopes have an odd number of nucleons. Nuclear >spin becomes aligned in the spinning disk due to precession of >nuclear angular momentum in an approximately intertial reference >frame (such as the apparatus which holds the disk), a process >similar to the magnetization developed by rapidly spinning a >ferrous material (known as the Barnett effect). The >gravitomagnetic field generated by the spinning disk is tightly >coupled (0.01 inch air gap) to a gravitomagnetic field circuit >composed of material also having half integral nuclear spin, and >analogous to magnetic core material in transformers and motors. >The gravitomagnetic field is transmitted through the field >circuit and focused by the field material to a small space where >it can be detected. > >In his three patents, Wallace describes three different >methods used for detection of the gravitomagnetic field -- change >in the motion of a body on a pivot, detection of a transverse >voltage in a semiconductor crystal, and a change in the specific >heat of a crystal material having spin-aligned nuclei. In a >direct analogy with a magnetic circuit, the relative amount of >the detected gravitomagnetic field always varied directly with >the size of the air-gap between the generator disk and the field >circuit. Wallace's patents are written in great detail, and he >appears to be meticulous in his experimental design and practice. >In my opinion, it is nearly certain that his experiments >performed as claimed. None the less, there has been no scientific >acknowledgment whatsoever of Wallace's discoveries. An in-depth >search of the literature has uncovered only two references to >Wallace's work [4,5] and each of these references merely creates >further mystery. > >The necessary existence of a magnetic-like gravitational >field has been well established by physicists specializing in >general relativity, gravitational theories, and cosmology. But, >the existence of this field is not well known in other of arenas >of physical science. The gravitomagnetic field was first >hypothesized by Heaviside in the 1880's. The field is predicted >by general relativity, and was first formulated in a relativistic >context in 1918 by Lense and Thirring [6]. In 1961, Forward [7] >was the first to express the gravitational field equations in a >vector form directly analogous and nearly identical to Maxwells >equations for electromagnetics. > >During the last 20 years many other scientists [8-17] >have published articles demonstrating the necessary existence >of the gravitomagnetic field, using arguments based on general >relativity, special relativity, and the cause and effect >relationship which results from non-instantaneous propagation of >energy (retardation). Nearly all of these authors present the >gravitational field equations in a vector form similar to >Maxwells equations. Some authors comment that these equations >provide fundamental insights into gravitation, and it is >unfortunate that they are not at all well known. Despite their >relative simplicity and possible practical value, the >Maxwell-like equations for gravitation do not appear in any >undergraduate physics textbook. > >Just as in Maxwells equations for electromagnetics, it is >found that in the presence of a time varying gravitomagnetic flux >there will always exist concurrently a time varying >gravitoelectric field. The secondary generated gravitoelectric >field is a dipole field, and unlike the background gravitoelectric >field due to mass charges, the generated gravitoelectric field >always exists in closed loops. Henry Wallace recognized this and >described it in his inventions. > >Wallace also describes another effect which may result from >generation of a secondary gravitoelectric field. Wallace believed >that a secondary gravito- electric field can result in exclusion >of an existing primary background field. In other words, a >gravitational shield can be created. The bulk of Wallace's > >patents describe his experimental apparatus, and his detection of >the gravitomagnetic field. The effects detected are minuscule, >and as such, may not be of immediate practical value. In reading >his patents it is possible to become immersed in the detail of >his experimental apparatus, and to neglect the possible >significance of the alternative embodiment of his invention >(figures 7, 7A, and 7B of his first patent). The alternative >embodiment uses a time varying gravitomagnetic flux to create a >secondary gravitoelectric field in an enclosed shell of material >in order to shield the background gravitoelectric field of the >earth. > >Unfortunately, Wallace does not state whether this >embodiment was ever actually produced, and unlike the detailed >discussion of his experimental apparatus, he provides no >experimental findings or data to back his claim. Nor does he >provide much in the way of theoretical arguments about how a >secondary gravitoelectric field can act to exclude a primary >field, except to state: "It is well known that nature opposes >heterogeneous field flux densities." > >Is it well known that nature opposes heterogeneous flux >densities? Well, not to me, and I can not find anything in the >way of scientific literature to directly support this idea. But >it does seem to make sense. It could be argued thusly. In a well- >ordered manifold all derivatives of the fields, time-like and >space-like, must be continuous. If you force a field to exist in >a region of space, the existing background field is somehow >required to form a pattern around or smoothly merge with the >created field. Nature does not permit flux lines to act with >cross-purposes and to exist with widely different directions in >the same region of space. Flux lines can never cross. Wallace >seems to have gotten his experiments right -- maybe he is also >right in his claim of inventing a gravitational shield? > >In a ground breaking paper in 1966, Dewitt [18] was first >to identify the significance of gravitational effects in a >superconductor. Dewitt demonstrated that a magnetic-type >gravitational field must result in the presence of fluxoid >quantization. In 1983, Dewitt's work was substantially expanded >by Ross [19]. > >Beginning in 1991, Ning Li, at the University of Alabama >Huntsville, and Douglas Torr, formerly at Huntsville and now at >the University of South Carolina, have published a number of >articles about gravitational effects in superconductors [20-22]. >One interesting finding they have derived is the source of >gravitomagnetic flux in a type II superconductor material. In >a striking similarity to the ideas of Henry Wallace, Li and Torr >demonstrate that the gravitomagnetic field in a superconductor >results from spin alignment of the lattice ions. > >Quoting from Li and Torr's second paper: "The interaction >energy of the internal magnetic field with the magnetic moment of >the lattice ions drives the lattice ions and superconducting >condensate wave function to move together vortically within the >range of the coherent length and results in an induced precession >of the angular momentum of the lattice ions." And quoting from >their third paper: "Recently we demonstrated theoretically that > >the carriers of quantized angular momentum are not the Cooper >pairs but the lattice ions, which must execute coherent localized >motion consistent with the phenomenon of superconductivity." >And, "It is shown that the coherent alignment of lattice ion >spins will generate a detectable gravitomagnetic field, and in >the presence of a time-dependent applied magnetic vector >potential field, a detectable gravitoelectric field." > >Li and Torr also demonstrate that the gravitomagnetic field >in a superconductor has a relatively large magnitude compared >with the magnetic field -- a factor of 10E11 times larger. The >gravitational wave velocity in a superconductor is estimated as a >factor of two magnitudes smaller than the velocity in free space. >And the resulting estimate of relative gravitomagnetic >permeability is four magnitudes (10 thousand times) greater than >the permeability of free space. In their third paper, Torr and >Li, demonstrate that it is possible to generate a time varying >gravitomagnetic field in a superconductor, which must exist >concurrently with a time varying gravitoelectric field. > >In 1995, Becker et al [23], show mathematically that a >significant size gravitomagnetic field must always exist along >with a magnetic field whenever there is flux pinning or other >forms of flux trapping in a type II superconductor. They propose >a macroscopic experiment to detect the gravitomagnetic field. >Becker et al, choose not to speculate about the source of the >gravitomagnetic field, except to provide a brief comment that it >may result from spin of the lattice ions. One might ask, what is >a pinning center if not a microscopic hole which carries trapped >flux, and what must be source of the gravitomagnetic dipole >moment if not the angular momentum of the lattice ions at the >pinning center? > >Current Research > >Indirect detection of the gravitomagnetic field was reported in >1988 by Nordtvedt [24] by astronomical observations of the >precession rate of the binary pulsar PSR 1913+16. A direct >measurement of the earth's gravitomagnetic field was reported in >1997 by Ciufolini et al [25] by laser tracking of the LAGEOS II >satellite. Results are pending for the NASA/Stanford Gravity >Probe-B experiment to detect the earth's gravitomagnetic field >with an orbiting superconductor gyroscope. > >In 1992, an experiment at Tampere University was reported by >Podkletnov [26,27]. A torroidal shaped type II superconductor >disk was suspended via the Meissner effect by a constant vertical >magnetic field, and was rapidly rotated by a time varying > >horizontal magnetic field. Masses located in a cylindrical >spacial geometry above the rotating disk were found to lose up to >2% of their weight. A gravitational shielding effect is claimed. > >Conclusion > >Is a time varying gravitomagnetic field generated in the Tampere >disk due to the horizontal time varying magnetic field used to >rotate the disk, and does this result in a time varying >gravitoelectric field in the disk, and possibly also in the space >surrounding the disk, and could this result in exclusion of the >earth's primary background gravitoelectric field as claimed by > >Henry Wallace? In addition, questions remain as to whether the >gravitomagnetic field (from the Maxwell-like gravity equations) >is of a large enough magnitude to produce the effects reported by >Podkletnov and Wallace. > >Acknowledgments > >Many of the ideas in this article have been developed in >personal discussions with Kedrick Brown >(http://home.att.net/~kfbrown/index.html). I would also like >to thank Ron Kita for his kind support and useful background >information about Henry Wallace. > >References > >1. US Patent No 3626605, Method and Apparatus for Generating a >Secondary Gravitational Force Field, Henry Wm Wallace, Ardmore >PA, Dec 14, 1971. Wallace's first patent. The gravitomagnetic >field is named the kinemassic field. The patent describes the >embodiment of his experiment. An additional embodiment of the >invention (Figures 7, 7A, and 7B) describes how a time varying >gravitomagnetic field can be used to shield the primary >background gravitoelectric field. Available on the web at > >http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/wallc. > >2. US Patent No 3626606, Method and Apparatus for Generating a >Dynamic Force Field, Henry Wm Wallace, Ardmore PA, Dec 14, 1971. >Wallace's second patent provides a variation of his experiment. A >type III-V semiconductor material (Indium Arsenide), of which >both materials have unpaired nuclear spin, is used as an >electronic detector for the gravitomagnetic field. The experiment >demonstrates that the material in his gravitomagnetic field >circuit has hysterisis and remanence effects analogous to >magnetic materials. Available on the web at > >http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/wallc. > >3. US Patent No 3823570, Heat Pump, Henry Wm Wallace, 60 Oxford >Drive, Freeport NY, July 16, 1974 Wallace's third patent >provides an additional variation of his experiment. Wallace >demonstrates that by aligning the nuclear spin of materials >having an odd number of nucleons, order is created in the >material, resulting in a change in specific heat. > >4. New Scientist, 14 February 1980, Patents Review. This article >is one of the only references to Wallace's work anywhere in the >literature. The article provides a brief summary of his >invention and ends with this intriguing paragraph. "Although the >Wallace patents were initially ignored as cranky, observers >believe that his invention is now under serious but secret >investigation by the military authorities in the US. The military >may now regret that the patents have already been granted and so >are available for anyone to read." > >5. Electric Propulsion Study, Dennis L. Cravens, Science >Applications International Corp, August 1990, Prepared for >Astronautics Laboratory, Edwards AFB. This report provides a >detailed review of a variety of 5-D theories of gravitational >and electromagnetic interactions. It also provides a summary >of a variety of possibly anomalous experiments, including >experiments relating to spin aligned nuclei. The reports contains >two paragraphs about Wallace's inventions -- partially quoted >here: "The patents are written in a very believable style which >include part numbers, sources for some components, and diagrams >of data. Attempts were made to contact Wallace using patent > >addresses and other sources but he was not located nor is there >a trace of what became of his work. The concept can be somewhat >justified on general relativistic grounds since rotating frames >of time varying fields are expected to emit gravitational waves." > >6. On the Gravitational Effects of Rotating Masses: The Lense- >Thirring Papers Translated, B. Mashhoon, F.W. Hehl, and D.S. >Theiss. General Relativity and Gravitation, Vol 16, 711-50 (1984) >A translation of the original article in German by J. Lense and >H. Thirring published in 1918. This article is the first fairly >comprehensive analysis of the necessary existence of the gravito- >magnetic field. An earlier prediction of the existence of this >field was made by Heaviside in the 1880s. > >7. Proceedings of the IRE Vol 49 p 892, Robert L. Forward (1961) >Forward was the first to express the gravitomagnetic field in the >modern form of Maxwells equations for gravitation. He named it >the prorotational field. > >8. Gravitation, C.W. Misner, K.S. Thorne, and J.A. Wheeler, >Freeman Publishing, San Francisco (1973). MTW is the bible of >gravitational theorists. Among many other theories presented, >gravitational field equations are derived from general >relativity in a form similar to Maxwells equations. > >9. Laboratory Experiments to Test Relativistic Gravity, Vladimir >B. Braginsky, Carlton M. Caves, and Kip S. Thorne, Physical >Review D, Vol 15 No 8 p2047, April 15 1977. Gravitational field >equations are derived from General Relativity in a form similar >to Maxwells equations. The gravitomagnetic field is called >magnetic-type gravity. A variety of experiments are proposed >and analyzed for detecting the gravitomagnetic field. > >10. Foucault Pendulum at the South Pole: Proposal for an >Experiment to Detect the Earth's General Relativistic >Gravitomagnetic Field, Vladimir Braginsky, Aleksander Polnarev, >and Kip Thorne, Physical Review Letters, Vol 53 No 9 p863, August >1984. Analyses an experiment for detecting the earth's >gravitomagnetic field. Possibly the first authors to use the >terms gravitomagnetic and gravitoelectric. > >11. On Relativistic Gravitation, D. Bedford and P. Krumm, >American Journal of Physics, Vol 53 No 9, September 1985. >The necessary existence of the gravitomagnetic field is derived >from arguments based on apecial relativity. The field is referred >to as the gravitational analog of the magnetic field. > >12. The Gravitational Poynting Vector and Energy Transfer, Peter >Krumm and Donald Bedford, American Journal of Physics, Vol 55 No 4, >p. 362, April 1987. Establishes the necessary existence of the >gravitomagnetic field based on arguments from special relativity >and energy conservation in mass flow. Derives the gravitational >Poynting vector. Names the two types of gravitational fields as >gravinetic and gravistatic. > >13. Gravitomagnetism in Special Relativity, American Journal of >Physics, Vol. 56, No. 6, p. 523, June 1988. Predicts the >existence of the gravitomagnetic field using special relativity >and time dilation. Names the fields gravielectric and >gravimagnetic. > >14. Detection of the Gravitomagnetic Field Using an Orbiting >Superconducting Gravity Gradiometer: Theoretical Principles, > >Bahram Mashhoon, Ho Jung Paik, and Clifford Will, Physical Review >D, Vol. 39, No. 10 p. 2825, May 1989. Provides a summary >analysis of Maxwells equations for gravitation, and an in-depth >analysis of the Gravity Probe-B orbital gyroscope experiment for >detecting the earth's gravitomagnetic field. > >15. Analogy Between General Relativity and Electromagnetism for >Slowly Moving Particles in Weak Gravitational Fields, Edward G. >Harris, American Journal of Physics, Vol. 59 No. 5, May 1991. >Derives Maxwells equations for gravitation from GR in the case of >non-relativistic velocities and relatively weak field strengths. >A somewhat more direct method of derivation is used compared with >the PPN formulation used by Braginsky, et al. > >16. Gravitation and Inertia, Ignazio Ciufolini and John Wheeler, >Princeton Series in Physics, Princeton University Press (1995), >Chapter 6 -- The Gravitomagnetic Field and its Measurement. >Derives the electromagnetic analog of the gravitational field >equations, and provides in-depth analysis of experiments for >detecting the gravitomagnetic field. > >17. Causality, Electromagnetic Induction, and Gravitation. Oleg >Jefimenko, Electret Scientific Publishing, Star City WV (1992). >Jefimenko derives the electromagnetic field equations based on >retarded sources, (charges, moving charges, and accelerating >charges). He applies similar arguments to the gravitational field >equations. If gravitational energy propagates at any finite >speed, the gravito-magnetic field must exist. Maxwells equations >for gravitation are presented. He also presents an unusual >configuration of mass which is predicted to provide an >antigravity effect. > >18. Physics Review Letters, Vol. 16, p. 1902, B.S. Dewitt (1966) >Dewitt was the first to analyze fluxoid quantization in a >superconductor in the presence of a time varying magnetic-type >gravitational field. > >19. The London Equations for Superconductors in a Gravitational >Field, D.K. Ross, Journal of Physics A, Vol. 16, p. 1331. (1983) >Maxwell's equations for gravitation are presented in vector form. >Ross uses the name coined by Forward for the gravitomagnetic >field -- the prorotational field. Fluxoid quantization is >analyzed in the presence of a varying gravitomagnetic field. Ross >establishes that the momentum of a charged particle in an >electromagnetic and gravitational field is given (in MKS units) >by: p = mv +qA + mV, where V is the gravito-magnetic vector >potential, and A is the magnetic vector potential. The resulting >modified London equations are presented in covariant form. > >20. Effects of a Gravitomagnetic Field on Pure Superconductors, >Ning Li and Douglas Torr, Physical Review D, Vol. 43, No.2, p457, >January 1991. Li and Torr present Maxwell's equations for >gravitation using MKS units. The equations are given in a form >where the gravitomagnetic permeability of a superconductor >material is presumed to be different than the permeability of >free space. Vector equations for the gravitational potentials are >also presented. The canonical momentum is derived (same finding >as Ross paper). It is established that an electrical current also >results in a mass current, and an inter-relationship is derived > >between the magnetic field and gravitomagnetic field in a >superconductor. It is established that the magnetic flux in a >superconductor is a function of the gravitomagnetic permeability, >and vice versa, resulting in a more rigorous form of the Meissner >equation and the London theory. It is shown that the >gravitomagnetic field must have a relatively large size in a >superconductor, and is on the order of 1011 times larger than the >magnetic field. > >21. Gravitational Effects on the Magnetic Attenuation of >Superconductors, Ning Li and Douglas Torr, Physical Review B, >Vol. 64, No. 9, p. 5489. September 1992. Li and Torr elaborate on >their theory of the interrelationship of the gravitomagnetic >field and the magnetic field in superconductors. It is >established that the gravitomagnetic field must be sourced by >spin alignment of the lattice ions. The velocity of a >gravitational wave in a superconductor is estimated to be two >orders of magnitude slower than the vacuum velocity, resulting in >an estimate of relative gravitational permeability of a >superconductor material which is as much as four magnitudes >greater than free space. > >22. Gravitoelectric-Electric Coupling Via Superconductivity, >Douglas Torr and Ning Li, Foundations of Physics Letters, Vol. 6, >No. 4, p. 71, (1993). Torr and Li continue their analysis of >gravitational effects in superconductors. Abstract: "Recently we >demonstrated theoretically that the carriers of quantized angular >momentum are not the Cooper pairs but the latice ions, which must >execute coherent localized motion consistent with the phenomenon >of superconductivity. We demonstrate here that in the presence of >an external magnetic field, the free superelectron and bound ion >currents largely cancel providing a self-consistent microscopic >and macroscopic interpretation of near-zero magnetic permeability >inside superconductors. The neutral mass currents, however, do >not cancel, because of the monopolar gravitational charge. It is >shown the coherent alignment of lattice ion spins will generate a >detectable gravitomagnetic field, and in the presence of a time- >dependent applied magnetic vector potential field, a detectable >gravitoelectric field." > >23. Proposal for the Experimental Detection of Gravitomagnetism >in the Terrestrial Laboratory, Robert Becker, Paul Smith, and >Heffrey Bertrand. September 1995. Published on the web at > >http://www.inetarena.com/~noetic/pls/RBecker/Gmexp2.htm. Becker, >et al, demonstrate mathematically that a significant >gravitomagnetic field must exist concurrently with a magnetic >field in a superconductor whenever there is flux pinning or other >forms of flux trapping. An experiment is proposed whereby a small >hole is made in a superconductor, flux is trapped in the hole, >and the gravito-magnetic field is detected by measuring counter- >torque from a macroscopic cylindrical mass inserted through the >hole. > >24. International Journal of Theoretical Physics, K. Nordtvedt, >Vol 27, p1395-1403. 1988. The gravitomagnetic field is indirectly >detected by astronomical observations of the periastron precession >rate of the binary pulsar PSR 1913+16. > >25. Test of the Lense-Thirring Orbital Shift Due to Spin, Ignazio >Ciufolini, Federico Chieppa, David Lucchesi, and Francesco Vespe. >Classical and Quantum Gravitation, Vol 14 p2710-2726. 1997. >The gravitomagnetic field which results from the earth's rotation >is experimentally detected and measured by laser tracking of the >LAGEOS II satellite. The results agree with the Lense-Thirring >derivation from General Relativity. > >26. A Possibility of Gravitational Force Shielding by Bulk >YBa2Cu3O7-x Superconductor, E. Podkletnov and R. Nieminen, >Physica C Vol. 203, p. 441, (1992). Podkletnov describes an >experiment where a 2% reduction in weight is created in a mass >suspended over a levitated and rotating super-conductor disk. A >detailed compilation of information about this experiment is >available on the web at > >http://www.inetarena.com/~noetic/pls/gravity.html. > >27. Weak Gravitational Shielding Properties of Composite Bulk >Yba2Cu3O7-x Superconductor Below 70K Under EM Field, Eugene >Podkletnov, LANL Physics Preprint Server, Cond-Mat/9701074, >January 1997. Podkletnov provides greater detail about his >experimental apparatus and the construction of the superconductor >disk. Available on the web at http://www.gravity.org/msu.html. > >Additional Sources > >The following items give the technical details of NASA's ongoing >work to replicate Podkletnov's experiment. Dr. Li, mentioned >elsewhere in this paper, is one of the researchers. > > >http://ro.com/~preavis/Delta-G/Physica-C.htm >Static Test for A Gravitational Force Coupled to Type II YBCO >Superconductors, Ning Li*, David Noever, Tony Robertson, Ron >Koczor, and Whitt Brantley NASA Marshall Space Flight Center, >Huntsville, AL 35812 and *The University of Alabama in >Huntsville, Huntsville, AL, 35804. Physica C Preprint. > > >http://ro.com/~preavis/Delta-G/Delta-G_investig.htm >High Temperature Superconductor Research (Project 96-07), >Investigators: R.J. Koczor/EA01, D.A. Noever/ES76, G.A. >Robertson/EP32, Ning Li/UAH. > >The following items by Modanese are the most detailed theoretical >analyses of the Tampere Effect given to date. Modanese's basic >idea is that the rotating superconductor is a macroscopic >quantum-coherent state (Bose-Einstein condensate) which affects >gravity by means of modifying Einstein's cosmological constant >term in the gravity-field equations. This mechanism appears to be >different from, but possibly closely related to, the >gravitomagnetic field discussed above in this article. In any >case, it is plausible to think, or at least to suggest, that the >unpaired nuclear spins in Wallace's special materials also >comprise a macroscopic quantum-coherent state and thus could act >as proposed by Modanese's theory. > > >http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/9612022. Possible quantum gravity >effects in a charged Bose condensate under variable e.m. field, >G. Modanese, J. Schnurer. > > >http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/hep-th/9601160. Role of a "Local" >Cosmological Constant in Euclidean Quantum Gravity, G. Modanese. >Phys.Rev. D54 (1996) 5002-5009 > > >http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/hep-th/9508018. General properties of the >decay amplitudes for massless particles Authors: G. Fiore, G. >Modanese. Nucl.Phys. B477 (1996) 623-651. > >http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/hep-th/9505094. Theoretical analysis of a >reported weak gravitational shielding effect, G. Modanese. >Europhys.Lett. 35 (1996) 413-418. > > >http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/hep-th/9410086. Vacuum correlations at >geodesic distance in quantum gravity, G. Modanese (INFN, Trento, >and Max-Planck-Institut, Muenchen), report U.T.F. 332, July 94. >Riv. Nuovo Cim. 17 (1994). > > >APPENDIX-- SI (MKS) Dimensisons of the Gravitomagnetic Field. > >Gravitoelectric Charge = Kg >(in purely electrical units, Kg = (Weber/Meter)(Coul/Meter)(Sec) > >Gravitoelectric Field = Meter/Sec-Squared > >Gravitoelectric Flux Density = Kg/Meter-Squared > >Mass Current = Kg/Sec = (Weber/Meter)(Coul/Meter) > >Gravitomagnetic Dipole Moment = (Kg)(Meter-Squared)/Sec > = Angular Momentum > = (Coulomb)(Weber) > >Gravitoelectric Dipole Moment = (Kg)(Meter) >(You would need the equivalent of negative mass to make one of these) > >Gravitomagnetic Charge = (Velocity)(Meter) = Square-Meter/Sec > >Gravitomagnetic Field = (Mass Current)/Meter = Kg/Sec-Meter > = ((Kg)(Meter^2)/Sec)/Meter^3 > = Spin Density = Angular Momentum/Cubic-Meter > = (Coulomb)(Weber)/Cubic-Meter > >Gravitomagnetic Flux Density = (Gravitomagnetic Charge)/Meter^2 > = Velocity/Meter > = 1/Sec = Angular Velocity > >Gravitoelectric Scalar Potential = Joule/Kg > = (Acceleration)(Meter) > = (Gravitoelectric Field)(Meter) > = Velocity-Squared > = Meter-Squared/Second-Squared > >Gravitomagnetic Vector Potential = (Gravitomagnetic Charge)/Meter > = Velocity = Meter/Sec > >Gravitoelectric Permitivity = Gravitoelectric Flux per Gravitoelectric Field > = (Kg)(Second-Squared)/(Cubic Meter) > = 1/4(Pi)(G) = 1.1927E09 Kg-Sec^2/Meter^3 > >Gravitomagnetic Permeability = Gravitomagnetic Flux per Gravitomagnetic >Field > = Meter/Kg > Assuming Transverse Gravitational Waves Propagate at Light Speed -- > = 1/(c-squared)(epsilon0) > = 9.316E-27 Meter/Kg > >-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o- >Mars Surface Anomaly Analysis >Possible artifacts on Mars >http://www.mufor.org/ares/ > >The M-TRAC Project >A private, unmanned mission to Mars >http://www.mufor.org/mtrac/ > > >______________________________________________________________________ > >Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group >at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 21:35:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA28664; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:32:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:32:30 -0700 From: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca Message-Id: <199810070433.AAA13932@romeo.its.uwo.ca> X-Sender: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 00:28:44 -0400 To: "Dennis C. Lee" , freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: How magnets work for health In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19981004193731.00d68d64@popd.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"6k4s92.0.j_6.Sxk6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6848 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:37 PM 10/4/98 -0700, you wrote: [snip] > We stopped the insulin shots on that first >week also because it looked like The Kitty was starting to hate us for doing >that. I told the vet about these events and showed her the research papers I >found. Dennis, Excellent explanation - could you pls provide ref on the reseach papers that you mention above. >The vet couldn't believe any of it and she still thinks diabetes is a >permanent condition after its' onset has begun. She still insists that we >must immediately resume administering the insulin shots to The Kitty. > Many Thx Chris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 21:40:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA30239; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:35:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:35:15 -0700 Message-ID: <146101bdf1ab$b47af2e0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: , "ryb" Subject: Re: Is this the breakthrough in regards to cancer,etc...? Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:33:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"8GO1Y.0.NO7.2-k6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6849 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >No idea-remember he did NOT use the method that Lee Crock is using now,his >aura therapeutic device..Lee Crock is 73 yr sold as I understand it as per >his leaflet..That doctor used the aura to diagnose illnesses..did he have >some sort of aura therapeutic device,unsure ... > Rife lived to be 81 despite abuse of alcohol;Abrams lived to atleast 70 yr >old(inventor of radionics)Tesla lived to be quite old so did Moray,etc..so >inventors of them devices seem to have benefitted from their researches... George burns smoked cigars and lived to be 100, hmmm, what did george burns have that these folks that died in the 70's and 80's did not? Certainly no special electric, rife, orgone, aura, yada yada yada. I believe he had a superior genetic code. I could be wrong, but I don't think he was sleeping under orgone blankets. > My point is this-cna someone in the Ohio area check on that clinic,;for the >techies but a simple device and try it and report on the results..If that >clinic is a fraud...how come more than 3,300 persons through it since 1 yr >and they charge ZERO fees ! Have you ever done a study on the power of belief, many many tests have to be done double blind, but even then researchers have shown that the patients that THOUGHT they were getting help medically improved even when they were getting placebo. > If nobody on th lsit has the gut to do it it would not surprise me either.I >remember a newspaper clippings of a few year ago-it was at the IAC >International Astronomical Congress in Vancouver B.C. mor ethan 5,000 >astronomers were in congress..on the 2nd day some persons(reporters) told >members that some bizarre lights(it was during the evening) were in the sky >and some people had asked reporters to ask the astronomers if they could tell >them what they were seeing.. >(in fact the newspapers next day reported an UFO FLAP over the city)-well >believe it or not,when told of them bizarre lights,the astronomers who were >in the big hall(close to 5,000 of them) all laughed nervously and NO one even >got up to go outside to check it up. >And no one comented on it either.. Now if that is not apathy defined... >Yours,ryb.... > >Bill Wallace wrote: > >> > These devices seem to be based(as per the book) on Dr Walter J. Kilner( >> >around 1910,Uk he was in charge of electrotherapy at St Thomas Hospital) >> >theories who found a method to make the aura visible.By 1919 he was able >> >to formulate a method of aura diagnosis of illness. >> >> Did this Dr Walter Kilber live to be of very old age? > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 22:17:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA08059; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:15:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:15:50 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981006070946.00a21250@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:14:37 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [alienworlds] FW: Wallace-Tampere Article - Final Version Resent-Message-ID: <"KszMZ1.0.rz1.5al6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6850 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee - > Found the following on another web page. Has anyone > seen this? Is Bob Stirniman on this forum? He's on Vortex-L, and maybe here. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 6 23:58:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA04059; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 23:56:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 23:56:18 -0700 Message-ID: <15c101bdf1bf$69865220$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: How magnets work for health Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 02:55:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"Yyeng.0.L_.I2n6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6851 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Opposites attract huh. Couldn't have anything to do with flows, like >electrons or some such, could it? I mean two flows pushing against each >other and hence repelling? Nah, it is easier to say opposites attract. Ok say I have your water hose, or to go with the aether theory say I have two fans in the air, or two turbines in the water, where the flows are coming OUT I can see where your analogy makes sense, they do repel as with magnets if out flow is put against outflow, and will line up if outflow is put to inflow, but where the flows are coming IN, inflow to inflow, WHY do they repel? I am all for simplifying concepts with visual systems we are all familiar with that a 6th grader can understand, but your analogy does not work for me, it is very close however, you need to make some modifications. >I break a bar magnet in half and the flows continue in the same direction, That works for the turbines and the fans and the water hose, but it still does not explain why inflow repels inflow. >only now I paint one broken end white and the other broken end red and call >one end south and the other north. But it can't be flows though. Not as you have described it, but I really like simple analogies, can you come up with something that does fit why inflow repels inflow? If you add SPIN to the flows, I wonder what affect that has if any? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 08:07:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA09856; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 07:39:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 07:39:52 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19981007144203.006b8e44@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 10:42:03 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: How magnets work for health Resent-Message-ID: <"h3qeo2.0.oP2.uqt6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6852 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:17 PM 10/6/98 -0400, you wrote: >I forgot to mention that the south pole of a compass is marked as the north >pole because opposites attract. Also, Wateroz.com probably has the best >minerals since they are water soluble. Sorry for the cross post but I want >to clarify the compass pole marking issue. > I'm a tad on the slow side so you confused me again. Could we just refer to magnet ends as the north seeking pole and south seeking pole. That is the way most magnets are labled so if we consider the earth is a big mislabled magnet it will simplify things. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 08:10:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA11887; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:08:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:08:04 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981006131659.00a0cc40@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 13:16:59 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: How magnets work for health In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"e3FhC1.0.Tv2.JFu6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6854 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dennis: Please cc: Me on that response, don't care about origin though. Just care about results Lee At 06:19 PM 10/6/98 -0700, you wrote: >...dennis... >... >...per your diabetic kitten... >... >...sure would appreciate > private post with details > per origin of your > therapy... >... >...thanks... >... >...bob... > > >Get your FREE E-mail at http://mailcity.lycos.com >Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://personal.lycos.com > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 08:11:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA11845; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:08:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:08:01 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981006131545.00a0a3a0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 13:15:45 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <199810070039.TAA10265@neon.prysm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Ovsg_2.0.-u2.GFu6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6853 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:27 PM 10/6/98 -0500, you wrote: > > >---------- >> From: Lee Markland >> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge >> Date: Monday, October 05, 1998 12:33 PM >> >> At 09:04 PM 10/4/98 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> If these "great minds" had got off to a wrong start conceptually, and >error >> has been propounded by adding on to error, and if each new discovery, >each >> anomaly encountered, each new observation instead of causing "great >minds" >> to revisit theory, merely had the effect of these great minds to go to >the >> blackboard and modify their original equations, how much closer to the >> truth are we. How much have we really advanced our knowledge? >>> >>Hello Lee, I have never seen this stated better. > Regards, Robert H. Calloway Thanks By the way I'm co moderator on a forum named appropriately Free Will Heresy. No rules as far as I'm concerned, the moderator has some though. For me it is free form and let it all hang out. Just love being the Heretic. World needs more of them, even if they are wrong. Lee the moron :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 08:13:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA11917; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:08:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:08:07 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981006132146.00a0dc70@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 13:21:46 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: How magnets work for health Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"RRbsY2.0.2w2.LFu6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6855 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Following is a possible cure for diabetes, anyone know of anyone suffering? Longest paragraph below: Lee ********************************666***************************************** ******* Possible explainations for your decrease in energy when experiencing changing magnetic fields: 1. Electroporation - well documented reaction of increase in cell membrane permiability when same is exposed to electric/magnetic fields. If toxins are released (a good thing for you in the long run) from cells due to electroporation, uncomfortable side effects result. 2. Negative electric and magnetic fields (North pole is negative field - South pole of compass needle points to this field) are a contracting energy which has a calming effect. The positive electric and magnetic fields are an expanding energy which has an energizing effect. An aquaintance who runs for exercise noticed that he goes alot further in distance when following electric powerlines on hilly terrain. The undulations cause variations in the distance to the cables thus constantly changing the local magnetic field intensity. When my cat (The Kitty) first got diabetes (she started drinking twice as much water and pissed all over the place), I brought her to a vet who prescribed insulin shots. I later learned that diabetes may be caused by a calcium build up in cell membranes that restricts glucose absorbtion and/or insulin release. I feed her magnesium, methylsulphonalmethane (MSM) with vitamin C, and made a North pole facing magnet plate (150 ceramic8 disc magnets glued down with North Pole up) that went under her bedding. The three above mentioned therapies all aid in releasing the trapped calcium from the cell walls and allowed proper glucose metabolism to resume. It has been 5 months since we stopped the insulin shots. The Kitty is doing fine because the symptoms subsided on the first week of this unconventional treatment and have not returned. We stopped the insulin shots on that first week also because it looked like The Kitty was starting to hate us for doing that. I told the vet about these events and showed her the research papers I found. The vet couldn't believe any of it and she still thinks diabetes is a permanent condition after its' onset has begun. She still insists that we must immediately resume administering the insulin shots to The Kitty. Dennis At 01:12 PM 10/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >Health and spinning magnets: >I (personally) notice a drastic decrease in energy when I play with my >non shielded motors. I am at the point that I need to shield the magnets >I work with. >I have been warned about this in the past and now I can feel the >effects. > >Jim > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > To leave this list, email > with the body text: leave keelynet > WWW based join and leave forms and KeelyNet list archives > are at http://dallastexas.net/keelynet/ > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 09:05:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA00680; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:02:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:02:55 -0700 Message-ID: <361B9145.EF23FF55@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 00:05:25 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer References: <199810010537.WAA20767@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wN5Zj1.0.XA.k2v6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6860 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Yes there seem to be 3 mechanisms in the transfer: > 1. The magnetic field generated by the primary, and "radiated" > 2. The magnetic domain switching, since the voltage is a function of the B > field. > 3. The transfer from the B field to the actual secondary. > -Dave In an air core, there is nothing such as "domain switching", is there? Can we make a core that has high permeability and yet has no "domain switching"? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 09:05:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA00701; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:02:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:02:58 -0700 Message-ID: <361B8B87.A4316686@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 23:40:55 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic/electric/gravitational doppler effect... References: <360F66FD.7F0777CC@cm1.hinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7Jaoa1.0.kA.l2v6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6861 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Anybody thinks this wouldn't work? If nobody does, I will begin to try some real experimenting if I have time. Jim T. Lin wrote: > > I once read in a book that says the speed of > magnetic/electric/gravitational field formation is C. If that's true, > then a fast-moving field source (mass, charge, or magnetic pole) would > have a doppler effect. And an object at the front of the source would > experience less force (from the field) than the same object at the back > of the source (equal distances for both instances). If the above if > true, then something like this can be made: > > (M)--> (M)--> (M)--> (M)--> (M)--> etc. > > The diagram represents an infinite number of identical mass objects in > an infinite long line, each object equally distant to the next one and > the previous one. Normally (when they are at rest) each object would get > the same amount of force from the front object and the back object. When > the objects are moving, each object would get more force from the front > object than the back object, resulting in acceleration and increased > energy. The faster they go, the greater acceleration they get. This > self-accelerating "device" can be made into a wheel, so that each object > chases the one in front of it. And it can be made with other kinds of > field sources, such as magnets and charges, instead of mass, but the > forces have to be attraction forces, otherwise, the device would get > negative acceleration (slow down). > > I know in the universe exists a kind of star system such that two > massive stars orbit the center of the two stars. If they are simply made > of atoms they should accelerate due to the effect described above. I > don't know what the stars are made of and what speed they have, but I > would very much like to know the answer. > > PS. If what I said is unclear, I will describe in more detail. > - Jim T. Lin > > By the way, can I include images in the emails? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 09:06:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA00563; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:02:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:02:47 -0700 Message-ID: <361B876C.AF3DD2ED@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 23:23:24 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: How 'FREE-ENERGY' is implicated in CONVENTIONAL ELECTRODYNAMICS!!!!! Re: the Minato, John Berry's mesg.] References: <3612958C.E72517CB@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aQL_q3.0.i8.d2v6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6856 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Berry wrote: > Ok, let me try again, an electric charge in motion has a > magnetic field, in conventional electrodynamics motion > is ALWAYS relative, so if there is relative motion ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > between an observer and an electric charge there will > be also an associated magnetic field, If the motion If there are two positive charges moving together (that is, relative to each other, they do not move), do they attract each other? If what you said is true, the two charges should not attract. Otherwise, they should attract. It is famously known (I believe) that two parallel wires carrying the same amount and direction of current (therefore same velocity, no relative motion between each other) attract each other. Why? Maybe it is the absolute motion of charge that counts? > between the observer and the charge increases (no matter > which is accelerating) the magnetic field from the charge > will get stronger and expand, the expanding magnetic field > creates a force on electric particles (in other words the > moving magnetic field is creating an electric field) this > electric force is in the direction of motion, if the observer > is in fact an electric charge it will be accelerate or decelerate > depending on if the two charges in relative motion and > acceleration are of the same polarity or opposite. Are you saying that two parallel currents of charge, opposite in direction, would increase each other's velocity? If so, wouldn't the magnetic fields created by the two opposite streams of charge oppose each other and decrease the accelerating effect? Kind of like two coils facing each other and having accelerating currents (two coils have opposite direction of current) would slow each other's current. These should be easy to try. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 09:06:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA00660; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:02:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:02:53 -0700 Message-ID: <361B9078.5C5B60E6@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 00:02:00 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer References: <199810010537.WAA20904@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"X6HZg2.0.EA.j2v6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6859 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: dave dameron wrote: > That the magnetic B field doesn't increase at the same rate as at a lower > "exciting" H field. I don't think that the relative permeability falls below > one, though. Permeability = 1= no ferromagnetic effects. > > The full load current and H field from the primary can be 20X the no load > values in a typical transformer. If the secondary is added, that can be a > 40X increase, so unless the initial H is low, the core will most likely > saturate. It is the B field that appears to generate the voltages. Thanks for explaining, but sorry I don't know what is H field and how is it different from the B field. (sorry :) > I hope now it is more clear. > I quess the magnet would be accelerated at the "approach" at an increased > amount with the delay, but the "drag" when leaving would also be increased. > The highest frequency I've seen from an alternator with many magnet poles is > about 100kHz, which would still require a much longer magnetic path length > than easily produced, speaking for myself. > -Dave If we make a magnet with 500 alternating poles (kind of like Searl's magnets) and spin it to 5000 rpm, then it would only require a 1-meter path for the device. Isn't that feasible enough? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 09:06:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA00598; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:02:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:02:51 -0700 Message-ID: <361B8E63.5DC30C65@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 23:53:07 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"v9lm6.0.B9.g2v6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6857 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks for explaining! But does the equation says about how magnetic/electric fields are formed (the speed, for example)? Also, isn't the equation like this: F = q * ( E + v x B ) ? If so, where does that "1/c" come from in your equation? Steve Ekwall wrote: > Maxwell's Equation = describes the behavior of the electro-magnetic > field. In free space, vacuum, there are TWO basic field quantities, the > electric field E(r,t) and the magnetic induction B(r,t), whose values at > a given place and time can be determined by observing the force on a test > charge q moving with the velocity v; > > / 1 \ > F = q( E+ -- v x B ) > \ c / > > Here c is a constant with the dimensions of a velocity that turns out to > be the speed with which electromagnetic waves (light waves) propagate in > free space. The sources of the fields are electric charges and electric > currents. > > hope that helps. > -=se=- > > source: pg 711 Encylopedia of Physics (2nd edition) > ISBN 0-89573-752-3 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 09:06:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA00641; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:02:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:02:52 -0700 Message-ID: <361B8D29.CEBDDE93@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 23:47:53 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer References: <4ce38969.361263c6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"M6KCf.0.m9.i2v6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6858 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Keasy@aol.com wrote: > You are certainly right , but by "continuous" they mean, among other > things, if you have a current source that is changing, at any instant of time > you have to be able to draw each of the magnetic field lines as a continuous > line that closes upon itself. And it starts as a small circle around the > current source in a plane perpendicular to the direction of the current > (moving outward -in free space- at the speed of light). All that is fairly > well accepted, I think. Haven't we discovered magnetic monopole and magnetic field lines that aren't continuous? > For me problems arise when I try to apply that to something like a > toroidal transformer with windings on each side. With a change in primary > current how does the resultant field get uniformly distributed in the toroid, > especially if there is an opposing current in the secondary and the net field > in the core has to be the difference between the two? (I may be working on > this for a while :-) ). > > Ken Keasy@aol.com "Uniformly distributed"?? I think my theoretical device relies on a non-uniform distribution of magnetic field (if what you meant "uniformly distributed" is what I think it means). From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 09:10:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA00763; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:03:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:03:02 -0700 Message-ID: <3619F135.E90756AC@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 18:30:13 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Leon Dragone References: <199810052312.TAA31920@fh102.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SK0KM3.0.fB.q2v6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6862 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Leon Dragone outlines the very simple nature of his electrical 'heat pump' > effect. His system consists of nothing more than a coil, a magnet, a power > supply, and a switch. He places a permanent magnet within a copper coil and > energizes the coil so that the external field of the magnet is > removed/compressed from the space around the magnet, without changing the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The field from the coil seems to cancel the field from the magnet, but maybe the energies do not cancel each other but stays in the air? > polarity domains within the magnet itself. He then employs an arc switch > (simple contacts) to quickly disconnect the power supply from the coil, and > leaves the coil open circuit. Suddenly the field of the permanent magnet is > free to expand back out to its 'normal' geometry around the magnet. But the > process of expanding this field requires work. The coil is open circuit, so ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If the energies were not drawn out of air when the fields cancel each other, maybe the "re-formation" of the magnet's original field does not require any more work? > the energy can not be drawn from current in the coil. The field must > reinstate itself. Energy is drawn from the vibrating molecular domains > within the magnet, causing a measured drop in temperature of the magnet. > Essentially, ambient heat is transformed into work to reinstate the field. > Any inductive load applied while the field is expanding/relaxing is driven > by extraction of ambient heat energy from the surrounding enviroment. > Dragone claims to have measured experimental system energy gains on the > order of 20:1, using this approach. I have read that when two magnetic waves "cancel" each other, a scalar wave is produced. And if the scalar wave has energy, it means the cancellation of energy does not occur when the cancellation of magnetic field occurs. And that means energy is not drawn out of air when the field of the coil "cancels" with the field of the magnet, and no energy is needed when the coil's field disappears and magnet's field reappears. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 11:35:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA02359; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:25:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:25:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199810071826.OAA30160@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: Energy Storage in Magnetic fields Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:09:57 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qYKt51.0.ma.P8x6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6863 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- > From: Keasy@aol.com > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Energy Storage in Magnetic fields > Date: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 2:07 PM > > In a message dated 10/5/98 11:18:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > mnorris@akron.infi.net writes: > > << Ten years ago I began my course of reasoning to try and ascertain how the > Newman motor could work. At that time I knew that energy was definitely > stored in the magnetic field. This was readily evidenced by the destructive > arcing on the commutator on the model I constructed. In fact this was one > of the reasons I discontinued research on the idea. But at that time I > simply believed what was in the physics books and never actually questioned > how the energy got there. Now I am seriously wondering if that energy got > there for free! Consider the following; If the wire was not in a coil > formation, but in a straight wire, the dc amperage would almost instantly > assume its full ohms law value. Therefore most all of the available > electrical energy went into the conversion into heat energy as expressed by > I squared times R. Now if the wire is coiled work is said to be done in > overcoming the self induction of the coil which produces an emf in > opposition to the source emf. Ordinarily without actually considering the > matter we might assume that part of the energy that normally went into > heating the wire went instead into establishing the magnetic field. But > upon actual analysis we find that in the second instance the actual energy > that goes into heating the wire is less than what it would be if no > inductance were present.>> > > If for simplicity you assume a constant current source, the energy that goes > into heating the wire has not changed at all because the resistance has not > changed. (Or am I missing something here?) > Meat Truck Re; When the voltage is first applied to the inductor it acts as a resistance of a much higher quantity due to the self inductance acting to produce a counter emf in opposition to the source emf. This causes less amperage to conduct in the process of overcoming the magnetic inetia of the field, essentially the defintion of inductance. If the wire was uncoiled and inductance eliminated the current would instantly rise to its value given by Ohms Law, thus over the the time involved more energy would have gone into heating the wire in the second resistive model. mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 11:45:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA10602; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:43:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:43:17 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19981007184518.006bcab8@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 14:45:18 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Geoff Egel list Resent-Message-ID: <"peqEh1.0.Sb2.4Px6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6864 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Is anyone else having trouble trying to post to Geoff's new list? It worked when he first opened it but I haven't been able to post to the list or at least I am not recieving any messages either from the list or saying my email bounced. I couldn't have been kicked off the list this soon. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 12:01:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA18389; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:58:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:58:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199810071859.OAA007.42@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> From: Charlie Hodgson Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 14:57:50 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19981007184518.006bcab8@mail.wincom.net> Cc: wood Subject: Re: Geoff Egel list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.50 b48 (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"Mkl2y1.0.CV4.Cdx6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6865 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In <2.2.32.19981007184518.006bcab8@mail.wincom.net>, on 10/07/98 at 02:45 PM, wood said: > Is anyone else having trouble trying to post to Geoff's new list? It >worked when he first opened it but I haven't been able to post to the >list or at least I am not recieving any messages either from the list or >saying my email bounced. I couldn't have been kicked off the list this >soon. This wouldn't happen to be at onelist.com? If so, I've had problems on other lists there, and my mail to postmaster@onelist.com bounced as well! -Charlie- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 12:02:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA18643; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:58:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:58:44 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <647c9a69.361bb89d@aol.com> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:53:17 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"AJ_Bb1.0.CZ4.Zdx6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6866 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 10/7/98 9:07:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jimtc@cm1.hinet.net writes: << > Yes there seem to be 3 mechanisms in the transfer: > 1. The magnetic field generated by the primary, and "radiated" > 2. The magnetic domain switching, since the voltage is a function of the B > field. > 3. The transfer from the B field to the actual secondary. > -Dave In an air core, there is nothing such as "domain switching", is there? Can we make a core that has high permeability and yet has no "domain switching"? >> I think the answers are no and no, although in the second case there is a wide variety of domain size depending upon the material. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 12:09:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA23682; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:07:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:07:52 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:09:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810071909.MAA23708@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer Resent-Message-ID: <"wQIXr3.0.hn5.6mx6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6869 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jim, At 12:05 AM 10/8/98 +0800, you wrote: >> Yes there seem to be 3 mechanisms in the transfer: >> 1. The magnetic field generated by the primary, and "radiated" >> 2. The magnetic domain switching, since the voltage is a function of the B >> field. >> 3. The transfer from the B field to the actual secondary. >> -Dave > >In an air core, there is nothing such as "domain switching", is there? Yes, with out ferromagnetic materials. >Can we make a core that has high permeability and yet has no "domain >switching"? Could be, but I have no idea how? And Thanks for explaining, but sorry I don't know what is H field and how is it different from the B field. (sorry :) I think the H field as coming from the current, with units like amp-turns/meter. The B field determines the EMF. They are connected by the materials used, air, ferromagnetic, etc. Some people call the H the exciting field, the B the resultant flux density. > I hope now it is more clear. > I quess the magnet would be accelerated at the "approach" at an increased > amount with the delay, but the "drag" when leaving would also be increased. > The highest frequency I've seen from an alternator with many magnet poles is > about 100kHz, which would still require a much longer magnetic path length > than easily produced, speaking for myself. > -Dave If we make a magnet with 500 alternating poles (kind of like Searl's magnets) and spin it to 5000 rpm, then it would only require a 1-meter path for the device. Isn't that feasible enough? 500 poles x 5000rpm = 2.5 x 10^6 cycles/minute or about 42kHz. If the delay travels at "c", I get 1 half wavelength, 180 degrees, as about 3.6km. Too large for me :). -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 12:09:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA23211; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:06:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:06:40 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:03:10 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Magnetic/electric/gravitational doppler effect... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"Es5953.0.Tg5.-kx6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6867 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 10/7/98 9:07:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jimtc@cm1.hinet.net writes: << Anybody thinks this wouldn't work? If nobody does, I will begin to try some real experimenting if I have time.>> There are at least two potential problems I am aware of: 1. If you go through the calculations you find the expected effect is very small unless you can come up with a VERY strong force that varies very strongly with distance. 2. As you accelerate something its effective mass also increases, of course, relative to the original rest frame. Ken Keasy@aol.com Jim T. Lin wrote: > > I once read in a book that says the speed of > magnetic/electric/gravitational field formation is C. If that's true, > then a fast-moving field source (mass, charge, or magnetic pole) would > have a doppler effect. And an object at the front of the source would > experience less force (from the field) than the same object at the back > of the source (equal distances for both instances). If the above if > true, then something like this can be made: > > (M)--> (M)--> (M)--> (M)--> (M)--> etc. > > The diagram represents an infinite number of identical mass objects in > an infinite long line, each object equally distant to the next one and > the previous one. Normally (when they are at rest) each object would get > the same amount of force from the front object and the back object. When > the objects are moving, each object would get more force from the front > object than the back object, resulting in acceleration and increased > energy. The faster they go, the greater acceleration they get. This > self-accelerating "device" can be made into a wheel, so that each object > chases the one in front of it. And it can be made with other kinds of > field sources, such as magnets and charges, instead of mass, but the > forces have to be attraction forces, otherwise, the device would get > negative acceleration (slow down). > > I know in the universe exists a kind of star system such that two > massive stars orbit the center of the two stars. If they are simply made > of atoms they should accelerate due to the effect described above. I > don't know what the stars are made of and what speed they have, but I > would very much like to know the answer. > > PS. If what I said is unclear, I will describe in more detail. > - Jim T. Lin >> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 12:10:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA23645; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:07:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:07:49 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810071909.MAA23670@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Leon Dragone Resent-Message-ID: <"mZ9xr2.0.5n5.3mx6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6868 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jim and all, At 06:30 PM 10/6/98 +0800, you wrote: >> Leon Dragone outlines the very simple nature of his electrical 'heat pump' >> effect. His system consists of nothing more than a coil, a magnet, a power >> supply, and a switch. He places a permanent magnet within a copper coil and >> energizes the coil so that the external field of the magnet is >> removed/compressed from the space around the magnet, without changing the > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >The field from the coil seems to cancel the field from the magnet, but >maybe the energies do not cancel each other but stays in the air? I think some of Dragone's work was with coils without magnets as well. > >I have read that when two magnetic waves "cancel" each other, a scalar >wave is produced. And if the scalar wave has energy, it means the >cancellation of energy does not occur when the cancellation of magnetic >field occurs. And that means energy is not drawn out of air when the >field of the coil "cancels" with the field of the magnet, and no energy >is needed when the coil's field disappears and magnet's field reappears. > The fields may be just superposed, in a "macroscopic" sense so they cancel at some places and add at other places. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 12:29:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA01076; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:26:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:26:46 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:19:45 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"g-FNX.0.fG.q1y6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6870 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 10/7/98 9:07:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jimtc@cm1.hinet.net writes: << Haven't we discovered magnetic monopole and magnetic field lines that aren't continuous?> Not to my knowledge. If anyone knows of of evidence to the contrary I would be very interested. > For me problems arise when I try to apply that to something like a > toroidal transformer with windings on each side. With a change in primary > current how does the resultant field get uniformly distributed in the toroid, > especially if there is an opposing current in the secondary and the net field > in the core has to be the difference between the two? (I may be working on > this for a while :-) ). > > Ken Keasy@aol.com "Uniformly distributed"?? I think my theoretical device relies on a non-uniform distribution of magnetic field (if what you meant "uniformly distributed" is what I think it means). >> By "uniformly distributed" I meant that transformer analysis usually ends up assuming, for a given input and load, a resultant field in the primary and secondary, but does not consider how the field became established. I don't think the fields are ever really "uniformly distributed", but it makes the analysis understandable. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 14:59:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA02609; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:52:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:52:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199810072154.RAA19764@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: Is this the breakthrough in regards to cancer,etc...? Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:37:50 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iBNhj.0.ee.rA-6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6871 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill Wallace wrote on Date: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 11:33 PM > > My point is this-cna someone in the Ohio area check on that clinic,;for > the > >techies but a simple device and try it and report on the results..If that > >clinic is a fraud...how come more than 3,300 persons through it since 1 yr > >and they charge ZERO fees ! > Hi Bill. Live in Streesboro, Ohio. What clinic and process are you refferring to H Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 15:32:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA18469; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:27:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:27:47 -0700 Message-ID: <006e01bdf241$e8bdf0c0$6e20de9e@bob> From: "Robert A Longworth" <5spot@innercite.com> To: Subject: Re: How magnets work for health Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:29:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"oZG5J2.0.MW4.Yh-6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6872 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca To: Dennis C. Lee ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 9:36 PM Subject: Re: How magnets work for health >At 12:37 PM 10/4/98 -0700, you wrote: >[snip] >> We stopped the insulin shots on that first >>week also because it looked like The Kitty was starting to hate us for doing >>that. I told the vet about these events and showed her the research papers I >>found. > >Dennis, > >Excellent explanation - could you pls provide ref on the reseach papers >that you mention above. > >>The vet couldn't believe any of it and she still thinks diabetes is a >>permanent condition after its' onset has begun. She still insists that we >>must immediately resume administering the insulin shots to The Kitty. >> > > > >Many Thx > >Chris I am a browser and my interest was piqued by some partial comments on "frenrg" discussions I stumbled across. Have a cat and me with diabetes and I am always looking for new input re: diabetes. I am approaching 76 yrs old, the cat isn't or that would really be astounding, can you give me a lead to find the source info on that material. I don't know if I am talking to Dennis or Chris . . . My name is Bob. aka: 5spot Many Thx From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 16:08:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA32529; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:01:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:01:57 -0700 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:04:12 -0800 To: pgb@padrak.com (BCC: Energy_Send_,List) From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Possible Explanation: Mystery Force in Space Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) Resent-Message-ID: <"f8EiV2.0.8y7.aB_6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6873 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 05:48:02 -0400 From: "K. Wakelam" Subject: Mystery Force in Space Sender: "K. Wakelam" To: Patrick Bailey Dear Patrick, Your E Mail 9/24/98 Malcom W. Browne, Mystery Force in Space, slowing down space probes Poineer 10, 11, etc. The explanation may be as follows: The Sun is at the centre of an Aether/Dark Matter, cyclonic Vortex, whose density decreases towards its centre, as with all vortices. The Planets are more or less at rest in successive arms of this vortex as it rotates around the Sun. Space probes, comets, etc. encounter friction from the Aether/Dark Matter as they move relative to it. Friction is measured by f.p, where f is the frictional constant and p the pressure exerted on a solid surface. The frictional constant depends on the density (D) of the medium, the pressure in space is the gravitational pressure. Hence one has the equation: Force = f.D.g.m/dsquared Where m is mass of the Sun, d is the distance from it, g is the gravitational constant. If D increases as one goes further from the Sun it partially cancells the decrease in gravity, so one has a frictional force decreasing linearly as the distance from the Sun. The measurements made on the space probes allow the value of ' f' to be calculated. THE AETHER IS BACK Keith (in the UK) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 16:20:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA04578; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:14:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:14:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <361C0F68.3D3E@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 18:03:36 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer References: <4ce38969.361263c6@aol.com> <361B8D29.CEBDDE93@cm1.hinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"21eKe2.0.Q71.PN_6s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6874 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jim T. Lin wrote: > Haven't we discovered magnetic monopole and magnetic field lines that > aren't continuous? I don't know about discontinuous magnetic field lines, but monopoles may have been found. Look up the experiment done by Mikhailov about exposing ferromagnetic aerosols to polarization modulated light while in a magnetic field. This showed monopolar activity. Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 16:26:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA10200; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:24:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:24:22 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:26:02 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer In-Reply-To: <361B8E63.5DC30C65@cm1.hinet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"8tqoH1.0.xU2.aW_6s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6875 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jim, Suggest you check out the book,(ref: bottom), as there are too many equations that can't be put into this ascii e-mail format. However, I'll try to answer their reply to your 1/c as they state it on page 712 "....... with the speed of light being given by 1 c = ---/=======. \/ (eo)(uo) By the 1983 definition of the meter, these constrants are defined to be c = 299 792 458 m/s eo = 8.854 187 817 x 10^-21 F/m uo = 4(pi) x 10^-7 N/A^2 "-snip- Hope that helps: the other equations delve into the scalar and vector potential equations of Amper's Law to satisfiy the Lorentz condition. I could try to type (ugh) the whole thing to you, if your Library doesn't have the book, but it would be difficult to read I'm sure, as ascii convoludes greek letters big time! And a lot of work for these slow fingers . -=se=- ------------------------------------- On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Jim T. Lin wrote: Thanks for explaining! But does the equation says about how magnetic/electric fields are formed (the speed, for example)? Also, isn't the equation like this: F = q * ( E + v x B ) ? If so, where does that "1/c" come from in your equation? Steve Ekwall wrote: > Maxwell's Equation = describes the behavior of the electro-magnetic > field. In free space, vacuum, there are TWO basic field quantities, the > electric field E(r,t) and the magnetic induction B(r,t), whose values at > a given place and time can be determined by observing the force on a test > charge q moving with the velocity v; > > / 1 \ > F = q( E+ -- v x B ) > \ c / > > Here c is a constant with the dimensions of a velocity that turns out to > be the speed with which electromagnetic waves (light waves) propagate in > free space. The sources of the fields are electric charges and electric > currents. > > hope that helps. > -=se=- > > source: pg 711 Encylopedia of Physics (2nd edition) > ISBN 0-89573-752-3 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 17:06:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA26435; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:03:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:03:09 -0700 Message-ID: <361C294C.232A@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 19:54:04 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: How magnets work for health References: <15c101bdf1bf$69865220$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GHgLY3.0.uS6.z407s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6876 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill Wallace wrote: > That works for the turbines and the fans and the water hose, but it still > does not explain why inflow repels inflow. I read something (somewhere) that addressed this point. As I recall, it had something to do with the idea that what was being pumped through the magnet was space itself, so the inflows were 'sucking' more space (distance) into the area between the 'inflows'. This model would set a lot of limitations on the nature of the eather flow going through the magnet. Something also makes me think that for some reason, there is a 180 degree 'twist' envolved in the flow as well. > Not as you have described it, but I really like simple analogies, can you > come up with something that does fit why inflow repels inflow? If you add > SPIN to the flows, I wonder what affect that has if any? Maybe it was a combination of the 'sucking in more space' concept and the twist idea togther? Now where on Earth did I read that... (I assume it was on Earth anyway) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 17:36:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA03479; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:32:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:32:35 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:24:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19981007193711.0ea7261c@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: Re: How magnets work for health Resent-Message-ID: <"TgdJG.0.4s.XW07s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6877 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If you don't mind... I too am interested... please e-mail me private or maybe the group would also like to know. thanks mike s. At 06:19 PM 10/6/98 -0700, you wrote: >...dennis... >... >...per your diabetic kitten... >... >...sure would appreciate > private post with details > per origin of your > therapy... >... >...thanks... >... >...bob... > > >Get your FREE E-mail at http://mailcity.lycos.com >Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://personal.lycos.com > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 18:18:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA01491; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 18:14:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 18:14:52 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981008012318.00daa0d0@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 21:23:18 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: How magnets work for health Cc: Alan.CHEAH@adecco.com, ahannan@MIT.EDU, deadnuts@deadnuts.com, lupem@world.std.com, peg@wintergreen.com, Cyberinga@zz.com, bso@acm.org, claudeg@world.std.com, DaleSVP@ipa.net, dtassen@c-zone.net, sweetser@world.std.com, clsmith@darwin.bu.edu, ccantor@sequenom.com, 76753.3551@CompuServe.COM, eben@ergeng.com, ehill@world.std.com, leep@world.std.com, ejp@world.std.com, wordpros@inforamp.net, moy@ziplink.net, gjcheah@guybutler.com, wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu, hic@world.std.com, jkokor@alum.mit.edu, Jim Hile , jim@msri.org, discjt@servtech.com, John Ranta , jsearl@tako.demon.co.uk, joshprokop@worldnet.att.net, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, lstelmac@lynx.neu.edu, Leonard Dvorson , cadman@mediaone.net, ohl@world.std.com, pgm@world.std.com, rsmith@itiip.com, raddison@world.std.com, 71022.3001@CompuServe.COM, 73577.123@CompuServe.COM, thiahadge@aol.com, tcapizzi@world.std.com, tom.duff@poweroasis.com, TAFAUL@aol.com, vortex-L@eskimo.com, WhiteGold@lyghtforce.com, WhiteGold@zz.com Resent-Message-ID: <"9bR4X2.0.4N.C817s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6878 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello All; Cat Vitamins: check magnesium level http://www.cats-only.com/facts.html Proper Cat water flowrate: http://www.pricemd.com/felinediabetes/pupd.htm Magnesium & Disease Prevention: see Diabetes http://www.execpc.com/~cc/tmiller.html Magnesium & Toxic Shock: http://lonezone.com/HEALTH/HERB/p13.txt Diabetes overview: http://www.ummed.edu/dept/diabetes/handbook/chap01.htm Biomagnetics: http://fox.nstn.ca/~dkeeshan/articles/biomag.html Water Soluble Magnesium: http://www.fleshmaster.com/magnesium.htm Other Water Soluble Minerals: http://www.fleshmaster.com/lifemor.htm Magnesium deficiency 72% of us: http://www.execpc.com/~magnesum/articles.html This is not an endorsement to use any of these methods. Reference purposes only. Sorry for the cross posts; but I was challenged as to the validity of this info. Thus I include the above references. Re: Alex Chiu - I talked to Alex. He told me that it was through trial and error experimentation on himself for several years which is how he figured out his magnet placement. The rings and foot braces look like the anti scaling magnets they strap onto waterpipes. I don't know the implications for the acupuncture meridiens. Dennis At 03:29 PM 10/7/98 -0700, Robert A Longworth wrote: >I am a browser and my interest was piqued by some partial comments on >"frenrg" discussions I stumbled across. Have a cat and me with diabetes and >I am always looking for new input re: diabetes. I am approaching 76 yrs >old, the cat isn't or that would really be astounding, can you give me a >lead to find the source info on that material. >I don't know if I am talking to Dennis or Chris . . . >My name is Bob. aka: 5spot > > >Many Thx > > > Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 18:28:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA08773; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 18:23:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 18:23:41 -0700 Message-Id: <199810080126.WAA14282@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:23:38 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Energy Storage in Magnetic fields Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199810071826.OAA30160@fh102.infi.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"VdWVu.0.y82.SG17s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6879 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > changed. (Or am I missing something here?) > > > Meat Truck Re; When the voltage is first applied to the inductor it acts as a > resistance of a much higher quantity due to the self inductance acting to > produce a counter emf in opposition to the source emf. This causes less > amperage to conduct in the process of overcoming the magnetic inetia of the > field, essentially the defintion of inductance. If the wire was uncoiled and > inductance eliminated the current would instantly rise to its value given by > Ohms Law, thus over the the time involved more energy would have gone into > heating the wire in the second resistive model. mnorris@akron.infi.net > A wire wouldn't have to be coiled to have inductance. --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 18:34:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA13479; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 18:29:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 18:29:28 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:55:40 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19981007200814.0f6fc0ae@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: Re: How magnets work for health Resent-Message-ID: <"vRLjN2.0.7I3.rL17s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6880 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For Your informationsNot all norths or souths are label or mean the same thing. medical north and geophysical and industrial magnets all agree. This I know for certain.... one polarity makes enzymes very active and the other end depress this activity. Some people have put mislabled magnets on tumours just to have them grow more rapidly and they reversed the poles and that slowed/decreased the growth and at the same time put the active pole on the thymus gland to stimulate/increase the immune hormone functions. So caution is in order.... once one determines which pole is what... I have/would paint the active end red and the supressive blue. Just red for fiery action and the blue for cooling effect/affect. Some people hold their magnets on a string and see the what direction points north and on black white tv screens see the forces distort the screen in one direction and flip the magnet and distorts the other direction.(do not do it on color or computer monitors or near your floppies or wallet for obvious reasons) Also magnets can/are designed to be highly focused for deep penetration and other just below the surface for accupuncture points. And some commercials mfgs make their products with alternating - evenly spaced magnets to avoid harm to the body. I don't tell people which is active/passive because people get in arguments and say what works for them and give absoute rules. I will say this though. A book by a man called Rawls and his partner author did some work exposing earthworms to magnets and the results if I remember correctly made earthworms at one end grow big and strong and other end small but I think many morer of them multiplied. We did similar work with some sprouts - fast growing... I think we tried rye seeds and similar results. Hope this spurs some interest/debate but... of good health! mike s. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 18:52:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA24635; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 18:45:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 18:45:20 -0700 Message-ID: <361C19BB.78B4@keelynet.com> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 20:47:39 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Help in finding a certain book.. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NYeov2.0.D06.Ta17s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6881 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! A friend needs help finding a particular book and needs at least one copy asap. If you know where 1-5 copies of this can be purchased, please let me know at jdecker@keelynet.com THANKS! The book is Introduction To Magnetic Materials B.D. Cullity - University of Notre Dame Addison-Wesley Publishing Company, 1972 In the Addison-Wesley Series in Metallurgy and Materials -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 19:27:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12037; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:22:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:22:41 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981007051638.00a137c0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 05:16:38 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19981005103446.00a1d100@rockisland.com> <36195A83.675B@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <3.0.5.32.19980930223939.00869410@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19960110071128.00a0d2b0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980930192839.008673e0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981001115528.00a14980@rockisland.com> <199810020519.BAA05618@fh102.infi.net> <3.0.5.32.19981002191646.0086ca10@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"wQzZ62.0.ux2.m727s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6882 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sure: Shouldn't be any problem. The story is less than 1/4 mile from the house. When I next go grocery shopping I will check in. Lee At 10:03 PM 10/6/98 -0500, you wrote: > >>In another vein. A local tourist shop sells fountains that emit haze. They >>use an electronic device that uses sound to create this haze (fog). I stuck >>my finger in the water and it was warm, but not hot or boiling, and this >>fog or haze was being created by sound. >> >>Anyone know what is going on here? I can get the artists name and perhaps >>some particulars on the machinery. >> >>Lee >> > >Probably it is a piezo electric device. If you can find the particulars I would like to know. I want one to make a diffuser for essential oils. > >Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU >Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 19:27:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12126; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:22:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:22:48 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981007065449.00a22200@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 06:54:49 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Is this the breakthrough in regards to cancer,etc...? In-Reply-To: <146101bdf1ab$b47af2e0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"YNV0H2.0.Lz2.s727s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6885 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:33 AM 10/7/98 -0400, you wrote: >>No idea-remember he did NOT use the method that Lee Crock is using now,his >>aura therapeutic device..Lee Crock is 73 yr sold as I understand it as >per >>his leaflet..That doctor used the aura to diagnose illnesses..did he have >>some sort of aura therapeutic device,unsure ... A friend of mine, says that his wife can see aura's and avoids people with a brown or black aura. She can also smell Death, and has done so many times. Not to long ago she was in a hospital and was in a room visiting someone, in the next bed was a woman. She told the nurse that the woman was going to die, the nurse said "No, she is going to be released tomorrow". Well she died that night. Another time she smelled death, it was a man and the next day he killed someone - "imagination"? >> Rife lived to be 81 despite abuse of alcohol;Abrams lived to atleast 70 yr >>old(inventor of radionics)Tesla lived to be quite old so did Moray,etc..so >>inventors of them devices seem to have benefitted from their researches... > >George burns smoked cigars and lived to be 100, hmmm, what did george burns >have that these folks that died in the 70's and 80's did not? Certainly no >special electric, rife, orgone, aura, yada yada yada. I believe he had a >superior genetic code. I could be wrong, but I don't think he was sleeping >under orgone blankets. And then there was Congressman Claude Pepper of Florida. He just died within the last two years, the news said he was 99 years old. Only one problem - he was one of the votes that passed the Federal Reserve Act and that was in 1913. He had served in Congress until a year before his retirement and death. >> My point is this-cna someone in the Ohio area check on that clinic,;for >the >>techies but a simple device and try it and report on the results..If that >>clinic is a fraud...how come more than 3,300 persons through it since 1 yr >>and they charge ZERO fees ! > >Have you ever done a study on the power of belief, many many tests have to >be done double blind, but even then researchers have shown that the patients >that THOUGHT they were getting help medically improved even when they were >getting placebo. Mind over body. Been proven many times. As a Man (or woman) thinketh, so he or she is. 98 lb mother lifts station wagon off of son. Etc., etc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 19:27:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12066; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:22:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:22:43 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981007060216.00a11710@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 06:02:16 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <13e501bdf1a9$17bbe9c0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"8VCd4.0.Ry2.o727s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6883 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:07 PM 10/6/98 -0400, you wrote: >>I don't know if this is relevant. But I have long been fascinated by Browns >>Gas. I've bought a few pamphlets on it (Brown recently died by the way) > >Well HE didn't have the answer to life extension either then. Guess not > >>It seems that Browns Gas can sublimate Tungsten (reduce it below the >>molecular level) and leave no residue. It also implodes (hence the pop). >> >>It also seems that something so simple as a low voltage battery, say a clay >>battery like those found in the Baghdad Museum, a goat skin and a hose made >>of skins and reeds, with the proper mixture of water and nitron(a salt >>solution in some variation) is sufficient to set a person to work to carve >>a tunnel in rock, with glass smooth walls, such as exist in Peru and Chile. > >Can you please expand? What's to explain. From what I understand, and I know that Ted has more knowledge than me, all that is required is low voltage d.c. current (a 3 volt clay battery should be sufficient) water, silver electrodes, a containment vessel and a hose. At least that is what I got from listening to the two gentleman who made an appearance on the Laura Lee Show and introduced me, and the other listeners, to Browns Gas. They also mentioned that it was implosion, the pop, and maybe the implosion was an explanation for its ability to sublimate tungsten. It can certainly carve through bedrock, however it cannot, as I understand, even boil water or affect anything with a water content, like skin. > >>In another vein. A local tourist shop sells fountains that emit haze. They >>use an electronic device that uses sound to create this haze (fog). I stuck >>my finger in the water and it was warm, but not hot or boiling, and this >>fog or haze was being created by sound. > >How much? What is the name of the device? The fountains cost from $350 to $7,000 I will find out the name of the device and where he buys it and will post that when I am done. Lee > >>Anyone know what is going on here? I can get the artists name and perhaps >>some particulars on the machinery. > > >Please do. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 19:27:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12101; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:22:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:22:45 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981007061100.00a23ce0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 06:11:00 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <13e701bdf1a9$19c43ce0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Z6Ukd3.0.uy2.q727s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6884 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:19 PM 10/6/98 -0400, you wrote: >What has been observed of flame in zero-g environments, say from nasa or >from the floating frog scientists, any interesting characteristics? I >wonder what happens if you spin the burning material and see what happens to >a flame in zero g? To obtain a Zero G environment I am afraid that you will have to voyage outside the solar system Elsewise you will always be under the influence of some gravitational force, if only minute. There isn't, as I previously posted, a zero G environment anywhere between the Earth and the moon. However aboard the shuttle, they conducted an experiment with fuel (See Dec 97 Discover Magazine, page 46, Little Balls of Fire). Instead of getting an expanding sphere of flame, the initial flame ball quickly divides into several smaller balls, WHICH GRADUALLY MOVE AWAY FROM EACH OTHER." Of course, lacking a solid conceptual basis, they have to concoct an explanation that fits within the narrative of conventional physics, but the fact that they move away from each other in a reduced G environment should tell us something about gravity and attraction. The flame balls are repulsing each other like magnets, IMO. Lee >>>I will go one bold step further, for those of you who are working directly >>>with this technology. Subject the Hydroxy flame to the flame of a candle. >>>Just bring it close and record the amplitude of the sound. You will hear a >>>tearing, wrenching sound of truly unusual force. Why? I ask you all, who >>>have these units. Why? Do a comparative study of an oxy-acetylene tip of >>>the same force directed at a candle flame. If it is nothing more than a >>>Hydrogen flame, why does this simple test generate that terrible noise? >>> >> >>Awesome. Maybe it is a dischord? Would the "fact" that a hydroxy flame is >>imploding, have anything to do with it. > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 19:27:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12180; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:22:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:22:55 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981007065904.00a232c0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 06:59:04 -0700 To: , "ryb" From: Lee Markland Subject: Electrical Element causes Mist Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"_Y1jb1.0.1-2.z727s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6886 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For those interested. I just obtained the following: "Electric Element causes high frequency vibration which alters molecular structure of water. Smoker Model SM-05 Big Ben Industries Co (Ltd) Tacoma, WA Made in Taiwan. Power is a 120VAC to 40VAC transformer at .4 amps. Used in Water Fountain Sculpture by Water Escapes Lars Edshammar PO Box 2777, Friday Harbor, WA 98250 (360) 378-3975 Enjoy Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 19:31:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12238; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:23:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:23:04 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981007074239.00a26c40@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 07:42:39 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: How magnets work for health In-Reply-To: <15c101bdf1bf$69865220$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Cx7tZ1.0.5_2.7827s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6887 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:55 AM 10/7/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Opposites attract huh. Couldn't have anything to do with flows, like >>electrons or some such, could it? I mean two flows pushing against each >>other and hence repelling? Nah, it is easier to say opposites attract. > > >Ok say I have your water hose, or to go with the aether theory say I have >two fans in the air, or two turbines in the water, where the flows are >coming OUT I can see where your analogy makes sense, they do repel as with >magnets if out flow is put against outflow, and will line up if outflow is >put to inflow, but where the flows are coming IN, inflow to inflow, WHY do >they repel? If you sprinkle shavings on a paper under which there is a magnet and you will see, the patterns of these "lines of force", you will notice that even where the flow re enters, say at what you might call the negative end, there still exists lines of force pushing outwards thus two negative poles still have lines of force still pushing outwards. By the same token as your own observation and question. I can and do ask "why do opposites attract" and are they really opposites at all, but merely a handy and convenient reference system. Is there really such a thing as polarity? We use the term (derived from the fact that Polarus is the North Star), and we apply a term used for magnetism to electricity, by talking about positive and negative poles. But surely in electricity, if not in magnetism, what we are really discussing is current flow, or the flow or movement of electrons, and the concept of polarity is just a convenient verbal shortcut, that keeps electricians from creating overloads and shorts and assists mechanics. Reverse "polarity" on the source of a motor, especially a D.C. motor and you can run it backwards, is that not true. The point I am making is that perhaps our concept of polarity and opposites attracting needs to be reconsidered. Wrong concepts lead to wrong conclusions. You can create a magnet by cutting across the lines of force (flow of electrons) at right angles, and can create a electricity by reversing the process. A lighting strike will magnetize ferrous metal. You can magnetize spining aluminum (ostensibly by realigning its molecular structure homogeneously). This tells me something about the relationship between electricy and magnets. But electricity doesn't really have "poles" or polarity, it flows like water from its source to where it is being used. I am all for simplifying concepts with visual systems we are >all familiar with that a 6th grader can understand, but your analogy does >not work for me, it is very close however, you need to make some >modifications. > >>I break a bar magnet in half and the flows continue in the same direction, > >That works for the turbines and the fans and the water hose, but it still >does not explain why inflow repels inflow. Because what we are considering as "inflow" is still at it's periphery outflows. Bottom line is, however, despite all of our talk about magnetic domains and polarity and such - how much do we really understand about magnetism, heat, light and electricity - not much at all. >>only now I paint one broken end white and the other broken end red and call >>one end south and the other north. But it can't be flows though. > >Not as you have described it, but I really like simple analogies, can you >come up with something that does fit why inflow repels inflow? If you add >SPIN to the flows, I wonder what affect that has if any? Probably significant. Another way of expressing that is if one stopped spin, what would happen? Can you stop spin? Now I'm really curious. I wonder if I can diagram or computer model this spin? Does the "line of force" coming off the right hand side of a magnet have say a left spin and the line of force coming off the left hand side have a right spin? Why don't the lines of force to the right and left of a magnet attract each other - or do they? Can you magnetize a spherical object? If so how does one determine North and South? Have some fun, buy a roll of tape magnets, the kind that are used for sticking notes to refrigerators and cut it in two and find out where the points of repulsion and attraction are? Going to have to get away from the computer and play with my magnets now - got all kinds. Lee > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 20:13:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA11253; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:09:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:09:33 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <85274080.361c2b80@aol.com> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:03:28 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"YehYr.0.fl2.jp27s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6888 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 10/7/98 4:27:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ekwall2@diac.com writes: << Hi Jim, Suggest you check out the book,(ref: bottom), as there are too many equations that can't be put into this ascii e-mail format. However, I'll try to answer their reply to your 1/c as they state it on page 712 "....... with the speed of light being given by 1 c = ---/=======. \/ (eo)(uo) By the 1983 definition of the meter, these constrants are defined to be c = 299 792 458 m/s eo = 8.854 187 817 x 10^-21 F/m >> There may have been a typing mishap here --- it should be 10^-12 >> uo = 4(pi) x 10^-7 N/A^2 "-snip- Hope that helps: the other equations delve into the scalar and vector potential equations of Amper's Law to satisfiy the Lorentz condition. I could try to type (ugh) the whole thing to you, if your Library doesn't have the book, but it would be difficult to read I'm sure, as ascii convoludes greek letters big time! And a lot of work for these slow fingers . -=se=->> Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 20:59:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA31845; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:57:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:57:36 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:59:19 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer In-Reply-To: <85274080.361c2b80@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gH_OC.0.Vn7.lW37s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6889 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 Keasy@aol.com wrote: "....... with the speed of light being given by 1 c = ---/=======. \/ (eo)(uo) By the 1983 definition of the meter, these constrants are defined to be c = 299 792 458 m/s eo = 8.854 187 817 x 10^-21 F/m >> There may have been a typing mishap here --- it should be 10^-12 >> uo = 4(pi) x 10^-7 N/A^2 "-snip- ----------------- absolutly correct, Opps THAT WAS a typo .. Sorry about thta tthat er THAT! My fingers are acting older than my brain! :) ANSWER *IS* 10^-12 (: Thanks for catching that as soon as you did steve (good -eye- there, sir!) ekwall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 21:30:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA13742; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:28:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:28:03 -0700 Message-Id: <199810080428.AAA16760@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: "ryb" , , Subject: Re: Universal or cosmic discovery ?The Ohio aura device ! Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 01:10:51 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5R7Pp.0.eM3.Iz37s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6890 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Remarkable coincidence. I just happened to have this thing laying around that might be used as a test of Joe Caters free energy machine claims. In fact I have two of them. There is a little story associated with this that probably caused the ATF to investigate me for explosives. > ryb wrote > Subject: Universal or cosmic discovery ?The Ohio aura device ! > Date: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 8:13 PM > (snipped message) > But before you get excited,the Ohio device cannot lit anything.It > sends a sort of universal oscillation(signal) that is out there and in > turn it affects all living things that are surrounded by an electrical > field,notably humans and animals..That signal is pre-setted into the > device,the device good gor xxx cyles..The human body is receptive to > such a signal every 15 minutes and the cells will recharge in 15 minutes > upon processing that signal.. Thus the human body can stay free of > disease and stay tuned longer which means a centernarian(over + 100 yrs) > life.. > > Now,the Ohio device method and apparatus migth have some similarity > with the Harry E. Perrico device(getting energy from the air)-the Ohio > device is 8"(L) by 8"(H) by 4"(W) > > I am saying that if we could use the universal signal for the Ohio > device and use a higher oscillation of it then we would tap into this > unlimited energy source Now,the simple question is-who will persue this > further ?Who will admit > that 50% of the work is done and rest up to them..Who will have the guts > to do it if they have certain financial means,the technological knowhow > and tools ? > > Or will it just be another BIG YAWN and back to each own individual > petty business...and each one wanting to be the new TESLA of the 21st > century ! > > Yours,ryb.. > > P.S. Anyone ever attempted to build the Joseph H. Cater free nergy > device which plans are at: > http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/cater.html > Reply from H. Norris: Upon reading this site I noticed that Cater or the site editor mentions that a German made a primitive model of this Hubbard like generator and still obtained a tripling of output. Here is how I came about having this model built for myself without any idea I was building something that could be used in this test. I have been involved for some time in constructing two oppositely phased systems of resonance and obtaining a reaction between them. I call this a binary resonant system. Most all of these constructions involved prohibitively high costing air core inductors. I wanted to know two things; If I could make a cheaper high induction system using unmagnetised ferrite as the core material, and also what kind of effects would the insertion of the ferrite into the present air core system have? So I purchased about 200 of these unmagnetised strontium ferrite cylinders (not quite an inch in diameter). Now the next problem was to structure them. To do this I took 13 of these cylinders and wrapped them lengthwise in newspaper as to make a 13 inch rod. This I wrapped with doubled winds of speaker wire so that I could also investigate bifilar coils. This central rod was then surrounded by 6 more identical rods identical to the manner at the Cater site. When I was constructing these I was wondering if maybe someday they might be used in a Hubbard test. Arround this entire assembly speaker wire was partially wound which is different from the example given at the site where each winding is series wound on the outer cylinders. Now I happened to have an extremely nosey neighbor who may have seen me moving these items in my garage when I was cleaning. I've got to admit the whole assembly with wires sticking out and stuff might resemble some kind of dynamite stuff,and my neighbor knew my patriotic opinion concerning our de-facto government. Anyways the next thing I know I had the ATF at my doorstep. I'm glad is was only a casual enquiree. When I get to fooling around with these things again I will post any unusual results. Sincerly Harvey D. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > To leave this list, email > with the body text: leave keelynet > WWW based join and leave forms and KeelyNet list archives > are at http://dallastexas.net/keelynet/ > ------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 21:32:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA15123; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:30:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:30:26 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981007122420.00a16e90@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 12:24:20 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: RE: [AEF] Occam's Razor Cuts Both Ways Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"z0sRj.0.8i3.X_37s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6891 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Does anyone know about this GEET Generator mentioned below, or anything else mentioned? Lee > > Cold Fusion is a real phenomenon. It's been tested, reproduced, > > patented, and is months away from being comercialised. In 1989, > when > Who will commercialize the cold fusion ? > [Mike.Cottrell-Tribes] There are a number of companies and researchers working on it. CETI has a large, American Company as an investor, but they aren't saying who. They have the patents on the Patterson Power Cell. Blacklight Power just got $11M in investment capital from about a dozen sources to commercialise their products. Fiat and Toyota (Toyota was part of a consortium formed to research Cold Fusion, and they hired Pons and Fleischmann) are working hard to commercialise their research finds. Dr. Paulo Correa (Canadian!!) has a big name investor in his work. He expects to have a product out next year. (Not exactly Cold Fusion, but it could be related.) GEET has a generator on the market now, and will have a car conversion kit by next year. The modified Coleman 5KW generator can run on any fuel, including 50% water solution mixed with a hydrocarbon. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 21:52:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA27964; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:45:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:45:33 -0700 Message-Id: <199810080447.VAA25220@mailhub2.ncal.verio.com> From: "silliman" To: Subject: Re: How magnets work for health Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:53:01 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1085 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bJSNW3.0.jq6.iD47s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6892 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob, > Date: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 7:54 PM > > Bill Wallace wrote: > > > > > That works for the turbines and the fans and the water hose, but it still > > does not explain why inflow repels inflow. > > I read something (somewhere) that addressed this point. > > As I recall, it had something to do with the idea that what was being > pumped through the magnet was space itself, so the inflows were > 'sucking' > more space (distance) into the area between the 'inflows'. > > This model would set a lot of limitations on the nature of the eather flow > going through the magnet. Something also makes me think that for some > reason, there is a 180 degree 'twist' envolved in the flow as well. > > > > > Maybe it was a combination of the 'sucking in more space' concept and > the twist idea togther? Now where on Earth did I read that... > > (I assume it was on Earth anyway) Have you read Steven Rado's book? Steven and I disagree about how magnets work. He thinks that two 'sucking inflows' repel, which he shows pictures/graphics in his book 'Aethro-Kinematics'. My model is both ends having outflow, but with different spins to the flow. Norm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 22:28:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA12569; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:26:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:26:31 -0700 Message-ID: <18a701bdf27c$045cd0a0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: How magnets work for health Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 01:10:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"HlcWJ1.0.E43.6q47s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6894 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >going through the magnet. Something also makes me think that for some >reason, there is a 180 degree 'twist' envolved in the flow as well. Right, this should be easy to model if someone has the right equipment, then see if the force of this twist repels equally on inflow to inflow and outflow to outflow. >> Not as you have described it, but I really like simple analogies, can you >> come up with something that does fit why inflow repels inflow? If you add >> SPIN to the flows, I wonder what affect that has if any? > >Maybe it was a combination of the 'sucking in more space' concept and >the >twist idea togther? Now where on Earth did I read that... > >(I assume it was on Earth anyway) Ha! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 7 22:29:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA12533; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:26:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:26:23 -0700 Message-ID: <18a501bdf27c$02cb8240$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Is this the breakthrough in regards to cancer,etc...? Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 01:01:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"vePz3.0.k33._p47s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6893 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I didn't write that, I wrote a response to that, I believe you have me and the original author confused. > > >Bill Wallace wrote on >Date: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 11:33 PM > >> > My point is this-cna someone in the Ohio area check on that clinic,;for >> the >> >techies but a simple device and try it and report on the results..If >that >> >clinic is a fraud...how come more than 3,300 persons through it since 1 >yr >> >and they charge ZERO fees ! >> >Hi Bill. Live in Streesboro, Ohio. What clinic and process are you >refferring to >H Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 00:10:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA17135; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:08:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:08:17 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Grat Crabtree" To: Subject: RE: freenrg-digest Digest V98 #243 Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:10:33 -0700 Message-ID: <002c01bdf28a$c217f300$ac4368cf@gratnsue> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199810080529.WAA14804@mx1.eskimo.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"ynQSd1.0.fB4.WJ67s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6895 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From 1889 to 1960, the meter was defined to be the distance between two scratches in a platinum-iridium bar kept in that same vault --- this replaced an earlier definition as @Math{10^(-7)} times the distance between the North Pole and the Equator along a meridian through Paris; unfortunately, this had been based on an inexact value of the circumference of the Earth. From 1960 to 1984 it was defined to be 1650763.73 wavelengths of the orange-red line of krypton-86 propagating in a vacuum. It is now defined as the length of the path traveled by light in a vacuum in the time interval of 1/299,792,458 of a second. > c = 299 792 458 m/s talk about circular logic - Grat http://grat.conk.com http://I.am/Grat http://grat.home.ml.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Ekwall [mailto:ekwall2@diac.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 4:26 PM > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer > > > Hi Jim, > Suggest you check out the book,(ref: bottom), as there are too many > equations that can't be put into this ascii e-mail format. > However, I'll try to answer their reply to your 1/c as they state it > on page 712 > > "....... with the speed of light being given by > > 1 > c = ---/=======. > \/ (eo)(uo) > > By the 1983 definition of the meter, these constrants are > defined to be > > c = 299 792 458 m/s > eo = 8.854 187 817 x 10^-21 F/m > uo = 4(pi) x 10^-7 N/A^2 "-snip- > > Hope that helps: the other equations delve into the scalar and vector > potential equations of Amper's Law to satisfiy the Lorentz condition. > > I could try to type (ugh) the whole thing to you, if your Library > doesn't have the book, but it would be > difficult to read I'm sure, as ascii convoludes greek letters > big time! > And a lot of work for these slow fingers . > -=se=- > ------------------------------------- > > On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Jim T. Lin wrote: > > Thanks for explaining! But does the equation says about how > magnetic/electric fields are formed (the speed, for > example)? Also, > isn't the equation like this: F = q * ( E + v x B ) > ? If so, where does > that "1/c" come from in your equation? > > > Steve Ekwall wrote: > > Maxwell's Equation = describes the behavior of the > electro-magnetic > > field. In free space, vacuum, there are TWO basic > field quantities, the > > electric field E(r,t) and the magnetic induction > B(r,t), whose values at > > a given place and time can be determined by observing > the force on a test > > charge q moving with the velocity v; > > > > / 1 \ > > F = q( E+ -- v x B ) > > \ c / > > > > Here c is a constant with the dimensions of a velocity > that turns out to > > be the speed with which electromagnetic waves (light > waves) propagate in > > free space. The sources of the fields are electric > charges and electric > > currents. > > > > hope that helps. > > -=se=- > > > > source: pg 711 Encylopedia of Physics (2nd edition) > > ISBN 0-89573-752-3 > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 00:21:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA18684; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:18:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:18:45 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Grat Crabtree" To: Subject: RE: freenrg-digest Digest V98 #243 Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:12:07 -0700 Message-ID: <002d01bdf28c$3a0521c0$ac4368cf@gratnsue> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199810080529.WAA14804@mx1.eskimo.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"L7PvC2.0.sZ4.KT67s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6896 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: fool /n./ As used by hackers, specifically describes a person who habitually reasons from obviously or demonstrably incorrect premises and cannot be persuaded by evidence to do otherwise; it is not generally used in its other senses, i.e., to describe a person with a native incapacity to reason correctly, or a clown. Indeed, in hackish experience many fools are capable of reasoning all too effectively in executing their errors. See also cretin, loser, fool file, the. - Grat http://grat.conk.com http://I.am/Grat http://grat.home.ml.org From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 00:37:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA28894; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:35:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:35:20 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: From: "Grat Crabtree" To: Subject: RE:Electrical Element causes Mist Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:29:23 -0700 Message-ID: <002e01bdf28d$b0163d80$ac4368cf@gratnsue> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199810080529.WAA14804@mx1.eskimo.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"Gv9a-.0.O37.qi67s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6897 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: on bill b.'s site there is a reference to this ultrasound fogging type mist somewhere. not a mystery very explained - Grat http://grat.conk.com http://I.am/Grat http://grat.home.ml.org From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 00:46:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA24088; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:38:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:38:35 -0700 Message-Id: <199810080740.DAA21061@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , Subject: Tesla Patent Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 04:23:59 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6NrGJ3.0.Bu5.xl67s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6898 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Some months ago A patent by Tesla, which actually was only a hint at possibilities and of course not a how to guide, was posted by some involved in the list. This involved constructing an inductor with a built in capacitance. This is commonly reffered as internal capacitance. Generally everyone who has considered this has only momentarily glimpsed the possibilities because ordinarily a great expense would be involved in using specially shaped conductors and intervening dielectric materials. Doing some tests tonight made me remember another reason for the construction made in my previous post. Now it seems more sensible. Could someone forward this patent again so I dont have too meander through the immense volume of past mail. I was trying to delete some of this material today but being a packrat, I dont want to go to the throw away columns looking for something I might have accidentally deleted. Thanks again H. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 04:59:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA10242; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 04:57:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 04:57:07 -0700 Message-ID: <361C9A4F.EC3F3F0B@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 18:56:15 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer References: <199810071909.MAA23708@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rt0j52.0.xV2.IYA7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6899 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > 500 poles x 5000rpm = 2.5 x 10^6 cycles/minute or about 42kHz. > If the delay travels at "c", I get 1 half wavelength, 180 degrees, as about > 3.6km. Too large for me :). > -Dave You are right. I made a mistake in my calculation. But I think it only requires 1/4 of a wavelength for the path. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 04:59:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA10277; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 04:57:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 04:57:10 -0700 Message-ID: <361CA153.FD75C79@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:26:11 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: A possible O/U magnetic device... References: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7A84CD9B3E6363CE1FD6871E" Resent-Message-ID: <"r_-2Z1.0.RW2.MYA7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6900 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7A84CD9B3E6363CE1FD6871E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Consider two bar magnets with like poles pointed at each other. They would get repelling forces. Then insert a piece of iron sheet in between them. Now the magnets should get less repelling forces or even attraction forces. And then pull the iron sheet out, and the magnets should repel again. In a cycle of this insertion-removing process, the magnets gained kinetic energy, and the iron sheet loses kinetic energy. I think the sum of the two might be positive energy gained. I have included a drawing of the idea. --------------7A84CD9B3E6363CE1FD6871E Content-Type: image/gif; name="Illustration.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Illustration.gif" R0lGODlheQHsALMAAACEAAD/AAD//4QAAISEAISEhMbGxv////////////////////////// /////////ywAAAAAeQHsAAAE/vDISau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oqq5s675wLM90bd94ru987//A oHBILBqPyKRyyWw6n9CodEqtWq/YrHbL7Xq/4LB4TC6bz+i0es1uu9/wuHxOr9vv+Lx+z+/7 /4CBgoOEhYaHcQOKiIyNG4oDjpKTB5CLlJiFi5CZnYGXlp6ifKCRl6OodKebkamub5wTpa8Y Aba3uLm6u7y9vr+8tBmnEqWtwhIBAMvMzc7P0NHS09TQAcgeq8fIytXe3+Dhy9fYHMTlyeLh AuzM7O3q1OTow9v03fHe7+4C+fL0Gs6hw+dv2r5l8ApaA1iPYTqFBg8mhNhsnkMKAssRpOjs XT8A/hM5ArB4sZi9gSKhtVv5MeXIkhUyYtvokiXIlilJlpTJzWXHjx59voQp66RGofwQHnSp 8yJPYTRTJlyak2jRi1E5BlUqtKnDp7SyIh3rlSHYV2LHdrVqEqvatxXZVjI6E67dsgDPukpr lyNeenpT8YXoESdTuYFRDS7I0nBVtolHLc431bHIv+gii5ocLyRZxHR7jvW8lhCw078UoV4d rA9nyqQfD3rdNx5mObRhq72NJ3ftcLzh+O5s2W+h4foqxy4Y/A3yapU/m1a7dDlzP8+p7bMO sXmd7Nqj+/TeBry0wm/JzzF/XmJxherXsP+9cPpo96X5zKfvLH6c/c/Y/sRdPv6lASA0iqR3 HHX92DQedqxFeItqEka44H1KDWibU6EBdGAz8Gx12Fcd3sMgP+9dR6JcH2bYkobqFDiJZmjx l19eJaJk44hm5XjUjrLhyCKQQQLmY11EGrciWy2iCOOGS1rV5E03pQgfh0MiJd6NRmYp1JNX RknUlGD6I6MkNO71FlVcvkJMmoLZVaY4Z2qyjTYlTQmilSpig2dbbmn5Ip9mZnbMLHne1yCh hRoKKJydNInebkKyMmaSSjpqKUx69lUnIpZA6kmnd/UYypgVpqoqaiSKKterPcQC66xNuErr rbjmquuuvPbq66/ABivssMQWa+yxyCar7LLM/jbr7LPQRosrAQRIy2y1NFBrrRAGdOvtt+CG K+645JZr7rkGnKCtDOtu+4MBBcQr77z01mvvvfjmq6++6aKAbQXaUivwBAMfULDACLfrLg/w 7uvwwxBHXG+//gK8bsDVYoyxBO0qvPAODUss8sgkF9BvwiinnLIFF2eMbcsH/+vxxzmEXPLN ON9LcQn/WsyxywQDTUHHPdNcc85IJx3vziQUHfTPBgONcNRQV220DjYrrbXITIvg9M8qu/wy zGN/ffUM6Kat9tpsf2uC2WfHLffcdNdt991456333nz37fffgAcu+OCEb2tr4W4eibipqK7q +OO47HRqoJiGaaop/oorVnl3K27qUKeTPijkXCZlPuqaizIao5GHtv75iVy1ScubpseJIVyf OnI4JXrOubrkUsLFJo9iUo66dFhe2pfv3uTeyO6TkDkoUs4zAr0k0i+KfI9MMjh8kV0Gv3mf 3Is/PoHAm3/+78Ubvz5w6Sv/Pp3xc+q9k8SPLr+g0+cf/v5f2tJl6pco7wFFdeCo3iGuhz3U hQiB31CgIRjoiN5pj3nTkCAYIAcMCnGwNYKwIJUwKA0NfoFUuLPP7UQ0QOzMj32BEGGVINi8 P4COheBzIeyqJDrXHO97FDHhGLLXvxz2ZockzKAKXxhBG+6QUrNhIvx0eDsohlCKCXSi/gOt GMMPerFCWhQeDbMImdpFqjZJLCFo3FeTIvoveQzJHpWot8bXKSqNSiwjG7EYDSEu0IyZQKGC 9GhHPv6DkHE0ZDX8OEFAYkKQXIQJBS/EP/wZsXyJvF/sLqk/D21xky20yiSXGMAH9pAoo4yi AUGZKVQ6knc/1N4b2/cjDDmIk//zJOxwGMQ6ZnKFQCSfJF8ZveNl6JTD3KNIRITH/vhSl4pU IyKhGc365BJQv6zmMxjZB4HQTiNfDOdqivfNxWGSdNg0Zy7/pE79Iaqd5fMcPLk3uXnSU1b2 vBwx80kJfPKTlv8MKCz2OReCChRU/jyoF9hJAgam8o+tkNXh/hI6CIaOwKEGxYRFUVBPP0iU E6EIVeliYoyI3kkbFC3oSVv3UZZmNBGuY8FDw+A5duLppiYdaVtwioFvMtRS70ToVWT6UjXY NKYYySlJh/oneSZ1qOi0aFCNeqqq1nNyRy3dOURKUtq5lKVFmSkRsIpUryr1qY+KqVOh2lSk alWsS2jrTpX6TmNchacX8KlbgXpWMdS0rK6bKjqjqlbM9RSw2NxqUa0gV8I6drBZxasFsgpZ ewj2C39lxV8rS9jNSnapd92rYS+LBpTGYhahOmtkA0sXykqVq2Tg6mk1+9Ww2pasX/UmPlu6 0rAuVgobRe1JKEs6rzYksaq17G8VdcrRws41rchlq2HTmdeTcja0j2XuD3Dr0qSWVKXgTa1J KXpV03rXt9p9wkw3mt42dNQFsG2vfOdL3/ra9774za9+98vf/vr3vwAOsIAHTOACG/jACE6w ghfM4AY7+MEQjrCEJ0zhClv4whjOsIY3zOEOcyECAAA7 --------------7A84CD9B3E6363CE1FD6871E-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 06:13:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA28184; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 06:12:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 06:12:01 -0700 Message-Id: <199810081313.JAA28202@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , Subject: Error of my ways; hubbard geometries. Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:55:32 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8lAzI3.0.Iu6.WeB7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6901 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I constructed a hubbard like assembly of florescent light bulbs in which aluminum foil wrapped around the central bulb served as one plate for a cylindrical electric field. Around this assembly were surrounded more bulbs and then another shell of aluminum foil which served as the outer connection. It is relatively easy to light these bulbs through higher voltage/high freq. with those electrical connections straight on the glass instead of the end connections. This whole assembly then went inside the air core coils that contained the process of resonance that enabled the bulbs to light in the first place. It was my hope that I could take the the electric and magnetic fields in resonance and place them at right angles which I had done to a partial degree in this model. I was then hoping to have the first demonstration of my idea; that of a flux capacitor. I wanted to be able to extract energy not from either the magnetic or electric directly, but from their interaction. Too me it seemed plausible that I could obtain this output directly from the end connections of the bulbs. What a wonderful idea, light the bulbs and obtain an output at the same time! Even today I had forgot the error of my ways and once again wondered why this scenario wouldnt work. It wasnt until I made this post that I remembered,so I wont be surprized if it might confuse more folks down the line. Do you see why it doesnt work? Sincerely Harvey D. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net ---------- PS; the answer to the question shows that such a light could still work. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 06:29:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA32462; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 06:27:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 06:27:24 -0700 Message-ID: <361CBDF7.F60F96E0@harti.com> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 14:28:23 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Evan Soule , Newman-L Mailing List , freenrg-l Subject: Re: Best Newman motor coil energizing parameters... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JRO2O.0.ww7.xsB7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6902 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > You must also consider that when you collapse the coil the > previously expanded electrons (consisting of gyroscopic massergies) have > 'no where to go', so you need a light, etc., to "burn it off". In other > words one much consider the interactions of 'pumping up the coil system' > AND filling the electron-shell-'holes'." > > "Essentially, to understand the full system, one must realize that one > needs something for the system to interact with -- whether a controlled > field (e.g., additional electromagnetic fields or an uncontrolled field (as with a PM > source)." > Well, yes, if we look at the gyroscopes massenergies which are flying out of the copper coil and the PM field interact with them, then of course we have the most collisions, if we have the most masses out there ! This is also why we have to build a Newman machine BIG, cause these gyroscopes massenergies are so small and we want many collisions to occur ! This is also why we need to have a permanent magnet or another electromagnetic field change near the coil , so that in this "field collision" many particles can hit and bump together and produce OU energy via E=mc^2 I also predicted on my WEB site, that it would be possible to use a different magnetic field other than a permanent magnet to generate these huge negative back spike current pulses ! (which of course would need additional source energy, but for the understanding of the process would be very important !) Too bad, nobody has yet done this experiment ! (for reference see www.overunity.com/nnew in the last Newman proposal file... I guess it was www.overunity.com/nnew/newman11.htm or so...) Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 07:00:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA08304; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 06:56:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 06:56:11 -0700 Message-ID: <361CD1A0.91216728@harti.com> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 15:52:16 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Meat Truck Subject: Re: Error of my ways; hubbard geometries. References: <199810081313.JAA28202@fh102.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cDjak.0.b12.xHC7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6903 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Meat Truck wrote: > > I constructed a hubbard like assembly of florescent light bulbs in > which aluminum foil wrapped around the central bulb served as one plate for > a cylindrical electric field. Around this assembly were surrounded more > bulbs and then another shell of aluminum foil which served as the outer > connection. It is relatively easy to light these bulbs through higher > voltage/high freq. with those electrical connections straight on the glass > instead of the end connections. > This whole assembly then went inside the air core coils that contained > the process of resonance that enabled the bulbs to light in the first > place. It was my hope that I could take the the electric and magnetic > fields in resonance and place them at right angles which I had done to a > partial degree in this model. I was then hoping to have the first > demonstration of my idea; that of a flux capacitor. I wanted to be able to > extract energy not from either the magnetic or electric directly, but from > their interaction. Too me it seemed plausible that I could obtain this > output directly from the end connections of the bulbs. What a wonderful > idea, light the bulbs and obtain an output at the same time! Even today I > had forgot the error of my ways and once again wondered why this scenario > wouldnt work. It wasnt until I made this post that I remembered,so I wont > be surprized if it might confuse more folks down the line. Do you see why > it doesnt work? Sincerely Harvey D. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net > ---------- > PS; the answer to the question shows that such a light could still work. Hmm, Harvey, maybe you have to use additionam permanent magnets inside the coil bnear the neon bulbs to get a MHD kind of generator ! The plasma of the bulbs must be deflected to charge the end connectors of the bulbs and then use a rectifier to extract the pulsating AC ! have you tried this with the help of the permanent magnet deflectors ?? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 07:10:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA13585; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:09:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:09:19 -0700 Message-ID: <361CD489.9A7845F6@harti.com> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 16:04:41 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , daveem m , freenrg-l Subject: Re: Best Newman motor coil energizing parameters... References: <13367-361B91DB-45@mailtod-102.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"snlAN.0.6K3.FUC7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6904 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: daveem m wrote: > > Hi Stefan, > You convinced me to tear apart my six sided magnet. I am glad you wrote > me before I did any further construction on it. > I simply accepted what was in that drawing with out enough thought. but > no matter how many times I tried to justify to my self why your design > was no better I couldn't. Thanks! > Any way I will be looking for some square nuts over the weekend that I > can grind the corners off, or the equivalent shape. > Could you be so kind as to send me that one drawing of your square > magnet.I deleated it thinking it was no good, but now I want to double > check and make sure we have the same idea. > Thanks, Dave Maltz Hi Dave, have again a look at this "principle" circuit porposal ! http://www.overunity.com/nnew/Mynewm.gif You can also add another pair of coils and have a six sided steel shaft with 6 PMs going: N-S-N-S-N-S on the surface ! You still only need 2 brushes and ALL coils are energized at the same time ! Each pair with a reversed polarity although... Very simple powerful Newman motor ! It is much more mechanically efficient, than Newman´s own 2 pole proposal with a six sided steel shaft and the wasted 6 PM setup on his shaft ! With my 4 pole design you have to reverse the commutator current every 90 degrees, if you go to a 6 pole setup every 60 degrees ! It has the advantage, that ALL coils do work onto the rotor at the same time every time , thus optimizing mechanical output ! Also due to reversing the input current every 60 or 90 degrees, you get 4 or 6 times the output back current spike per revolution, which is additional energy to recharge back the power source e.g. batteries ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 07:40:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA25907; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:39:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:39:16 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19981008144000.006ae940@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 10:40:00 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: A possible O/U magnetic device... Resent-Message-ID: <"zGNl42.0.jK6.JwC7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6905 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:26 PM 10/8/98 +0800, you wrote: >Consider two bar magnets with like poles pointed at each other. They >would get repelling forces. Then insert a piece of iron sheet in between >them. Now the magnets should get less repelling forces or even >attraction forces. And then pull the iron sheet out, and the magnets >should repel again. In a cycle of this insertion-removing process, the >magnets gained kinetic energy, and the iron sheet loses kinetic energy. >I think the sum of the two might be positive energy gained. I have >included a drawing of the idea. I have tried several ideas like this without success. Perhaps you can find a way. > Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 07:41:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA26464; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:40:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:40:18 -0700 MR-Received: by mta SOCCER; Relayed; Thu, 08 Oct 1998 10:41:24 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Thu, 08 Oct 1998 10:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 10:14:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: GEET In-reply-to: <3.0.5.32.19981007122420.00a16e90@rockisland.com> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 10:41:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E1772ZXPFF9L9E X400-MTS-identifier: [;42140180018991/3273904@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"p_1TK1.0.KT6.HxC7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6906 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee, GEET has a web page http://www.Friend.ly.Net/GEET/ In brief, they preheat the fuel prior to combustion. Also in a recent article in the Tesla Engine Builders Association newsletter TEBA News, http://www.execpc.com/~teba/ TEBA member David Young continues his story detailing his experiences with a propane powered bladeless gas turbine. He has constructed a bladeless blower toward experimentation with a totally bladeless device. He improved his combustion chamber efficiency significantly by using the GEET type effect. He looped the sealed fuel line through the combustion chamber prior to the normal fuel inlet ports. He got a significant increase in heat for the same amount of propane. Bill From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 09:06:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA30661; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:04:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:04:39 -0700 Message-ID: <002101bdf2d5$8a60d6c0$5675a098@data> From: "Edward Kauffmann" To: Subject: Re: A possible O/U magnetic device... Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:41:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Q97IP.0._U7.MAE7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6907 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Someone has already patented this concept. Check out http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?patent_number=3879622 for more information. -----Original Message----- From: Jim T. Lin To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, October 08, 1998 8:02 AM Subject: A possible O/U magnetic device... >Consider two bar magnets with like poles pointed at each other. They >would get repelling forces. Then insert a piece of iron sheet in between >them. Now the magnets should get less repelling forces or even >attraction forces. And then pull the iron sheet out, and the magnets >should repel again. In a cycle of this insertion-removing process, the >magnets gained kinetic energy, and the iron sheet loses kinetic energy. >I think the sum of the two might be positive energy gained. I have >included a drawing of the idea. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 10:31:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA32116; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:27:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:27:43 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981008011514.00a2d4a0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 01:15:14 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Use of my EMail filter In-Reply-To: <199810081313.JAA28202@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"jgkmF1.0.jr7.EOF7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6911 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I've noticed three Emails from Grat in my inbox, and knowing how much he likes me and thinks of me I've decided to delete them unread, and have set my Email filter to eliminate any mail from him. Therefore if I don't respond to a posting of his it is not because I can't, but because I haven't read it. Things just work better that way :) Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 10:32:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA31666; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:26:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:26:36 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981008010117.00a2ccd0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 01:01:17 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: How magnets work for health In-Reply-To: <199810080447.VAA25220@mailhub2.ncal.verio.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"SmqyB2.0.Ck7.1NF7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6909 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:53 PM 10/7/98 -0700, you wrote: >Bob, > >> Date: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 7:54 PM >> >> Bill Wallace wrote: >> >> >> >> > That works for the turbines and the fans and the water hose, but it >still >> > does not explain why inflow repels inflow. >> >> I read something (somewhere) that addressed this point. >> >> As I recall, it had something to do with the idea that what was being >> pumped through the magnet was space itself, so the inflows were >> 'sucking' >> more space (distance) into the area between the 'inflows'. >> >> This model would set a lot of limitations on the nature of the eather >flow >> going through the magnet. Something also makes me think that for some >> reason, there is a 180 degree 'twist' envolved in the flow as well. >> >> >> >> >> Maybe it was a combination of the 'sucking in more space' concept and >> the twist idea togther? Now where on Earth did I read that... >> >> (I assume it was on Earth anyway) > >Have you read Steven Rado's book? Steven and I disagree about how >magnets work. He thinks that two 'sucking inflows' repel, which he shows >pictures/graphics in his book 'Aethro-Kinematics'. > >My model is both ends having outflow, but with different spins to the >flow. > >Norm Maybe , but how could two ends both have outflows, where is the source of the outflows and shouldn't the source deplete itself over time - and maybe "spin" is everything. Magnetism and gravity are both forces that attract other matter. Magnetism exhibits this capacity only on matter whose molecular structure is homogeneously aligned - like iron or spinning aluminum. Gravity exhibits this capacity on all matter. Static electricity will attract dust, feathers, paper and thus exhibits the same characteristic as gravity. Finally, although it is believed that the crud that accumulates on a light bulb is due to electrostatic effect, the light bulb is still attracting non ferrous matter, that is matter whose molecular structure is not homogenously aligned, and thus exhibiting the same characteristics as gravity. Could it be possible that what we consider static electricity or the electrostatic effect, is in reality gravity? And hence gravity is a product of the combusting field. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 10:32:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA32173; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:27:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:27:48 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981008021754.00a38cd0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 02:17:54 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: GEET In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19981007122420.00a16e90@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"d3TeV3.0.Vs7.JOF7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6912 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks Bill: I'll check it out after I queue this for delivery Lee At 10:14 AM 10/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >Lee, > >GEET has a web page > > http://www.Friend.ly.Net/GEET/ > >In brief, they preheat the fuel prior to combustion. > >Also in a recent article in the Tesla Engine Builders Association newsletter >TEBA News, > > http://www.execpc.com/~teba/ > >TEBA member David Young continues his story detailing his experiences with a >propane powered bladeless gas turbine. He has constructed a bladeless blower >toward experimentation with a totally bladeless device. > >He improved his combustion chamber efficiency significantly by using the GEET >type effect. He looped the sealed fuel line through the combustion chamber >prior to the normal fuel inlet ports. He got a significant increase in heat for >the same amount of propane. > >Bill > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 10:33:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA32064; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:27:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:27:34 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981008011206.00a2d6c0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 01:12:06 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: GEET In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19981007122420.00a16e90@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"_2ibn1.0.wq7.6OF7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6910 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks. Does that mean that Paul Pantone's generator is not recommended by you. $1350 is a lot to shell out, if it doesn't work and I wonder about installation problems, instructions and modifications to the carburetion system as well as the engine, particularly the valves. I think one could easily burn up valves and rings, if too much heat is produced, or clog them and get poor ignition if not enough. The whole thing is even more complicated with all of the required pollution control devices put on vehicles today, and I wonder what the generator would do to the devices as well as the catalytic converter. Questions also of rusting out the exhaust system, a problem even with hydrocarbons. I think I will EMail Paul, in fact I will, but still would appreciate your comments. Lee At 07:22 AM 10/8/98 -0600, you wrote: > >You asked:" >Does anyone know about this GEET Generator mentioned below, or anything >else mentioned?" >_______________________________________________________________________ >And someome said:" GEET has a generator on the market now, and will have a >car conversion kit by next year. The modified Coleman 5KW generator can run >on any fuel, including 50% water solution mixed with a hydrocarbon." >__________________________________________________________________________ >Lee: The 5Kw gnerator is about $1350 US. My understanding is that it >can run up to 80% on water. Paul Pantone's e-mail is: >"GEET Management, LLC" . >Since I can only specify, recommend, procure and use technology that is >practical and real-world, CETI, Pons & Fleischmann and Correa's cold >plasma do not interest me very much, (yet?). The only exception may be >Blacklight Power. Has anyone had application success with Jim Grigg's >ultrasonic heating of water? Jorg Ostrowski > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 10:36:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA00649; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:30:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:30:40 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981008022314.00a30a10@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 02:23:14 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: GEET In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19981007122420.00a16e90@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"BLt7Q2.0.-9.-QF7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6913 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: BT Bill, a bladeless turbine "sounds" like a ramjet to me. Does it produce anything besides propulsion, like turning gears or a rotor shaft? Lee At 10:14 AM 10/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >Lee, > >GEET has a web page > > http://www.Friend.ly.Net/GEET/ > >In brief, they preheat the fuel prior to combustion. > >Also in a recent article in the Tesla Engine Builders Association newsletter >TEBA News, > > http://www.execpc.com/~teba/ > >TEBA member David Young continues his story detailing his experiences with a >propane powered bladeless gas turbine. He has constructed a bladeless blower >toward experimentation with a totally bladeless device. > >He improved his combustion chamber efficiency significantly by using the GEET >type effect. He looped the sealed fuel line through the combustion chamber >prior to the normal fuel inlet ports. He got a significant increase in heat for >the same amount of propane. > >Bill > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 10:56:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA10215; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:53:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:53:53 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981008024218.00a22700@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 02:42:18 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: GEET In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19981007122420.00a16e90@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"cO5nd1.0.QV2.mmF7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6914 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey Bill thanks a million, great web site, printed it all out I like this quote especially: "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth, if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions, which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." Tolstoy Lee At 10:14 AM 10/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >Lee, > >GEET has a web page > > http://www.Friend.ly.Net/GEET/ > >In brief, they preheat the fuel prior to combustion. > >Also in a recent article in the Tesla Engine Builders Association newsletter >TEBA News, > > http://www.execpc.com/~teba/ > >TEBA member David Young continues his story detailing his experiences with a >propane powered bladeless gas turbine. He has constructed a bladeless blower >toward experimentation with a totally bladeless device. > >He improved his combustion chamber efficiency significantly by using the GEET >type effect. He looped the sealed fuel line through the combustion chamber >prior to the normal fuel inlet ports. He got a significant increase in heat for >the same amount of propane. > >Bill > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 11:30:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA31635; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:26:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:26:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981008010113.00a31de0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 01:01:13 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Universal or cosmic discovery ?The Ohio aura device ! In-Reply-To: <199810080428.AAA16760@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZCtCA3.0.tj7.0NF7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6908 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Could you clarify please. Is the Joseph H. Cater device capable of "recharging" the body and keeping it disease free and will the website below provide me with build instructions? Lee At 01:10 AM 10/7/98 -0500, you wrote: >Remarkable coincidence. I just happened to have this thing laying around >that might be used as a test of Joe Caters free energy machine claims. In >fact I have two of them. There is a little story associated with this that >probably caused the ATF to investigate me for explosives. > > >> ryb wrote >> Subject: Universal or cosmic discovery ?The Ohio aura device ! >> Date: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 8:13 PM >> (snipped message) > >> But before you get excited,the Ohio device cannot lit anything.It >> sends a sort of universal oscillation(signal) that is out there and in >> turn it affects all living things that are surrounded by an electrical >> field,notably humans and animals..That signal is pre-setted into the >> device,the device good gor xxx cyles..The human body is receptive to >> such a signal every 15 minutes and the cells will recharge in 15 minutes >> upon processing that signal.. Thus the human body can stay free of >> disease and stay tuned longer which means a centernarian(over + 100 yrs) >> life.. >> > >> Now,the Ohio device method and apparatus migth have some similarity >> with the Harry E. Perrico device(getting energy from the air)-the Ohio >> device is 8"(L) by 8"(H) by 4"(W) >> >> I am saying that if we could use the universal signal for the Ohio >> device and use a higher oscillation of it then we would tap into this >> unlimited energy source Now,the simple question is-who will persue this > > further ?Who will admit >> that 50% of the work is done and rest up to them..Who will have the guts >> to do it if they have certain financial means,the technological knowhow >> and tools ? >> >> Or will it just be another BIG YAWN and back to each own individual >> petty business...and each one wanting to be the new TESLA of the 21st >> century ! >> >> Yours,ryb.. >> >> P.S. Anyone ever attempted to build the Joseph H. Cater free nergy >> device which plans are at: >> http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/cater.html >> Reply from H. Norris: >Upon reading this site I noticed that Cater or the site editor mentions >that a German made a primitive model of this Hubbard like generator and >still obtained a tripling of output. Here is how I came about having this >model built for myself without any idea I was building something that could >be used in this test. > I have been involved for some time in constructing two oppositely >phased systems of resonance and obtaining a reaction between them. I call >this a binary resonant system. Most all of these constructions involved >prohibitively high costing air core inductors. I wanted to know two things; >If I could make a cheaper high induction system using unmagnetised ferrite >as the core material, and also what kind of effects would the insertion of >the ferrite into the present air core system have? So I purchased about 200 >of these unmagnetised strontium ferrite cylinders (not quite an inch in >diameter). Now the next problem was to structure them. To do this I took 13 >of these cylinders and wrapped them lengthwise in newspaper as to make a 13 >inch rod. This I wrapped with doubled winds of speaker wire so that I could >also investigate bifilar coils. This central rod was then surrounded by 6 >more identical rods identical to the manner at the Cater site. When I was >constructing these I was wondering if maybe someday they might be used in a >Hubbard test. Arround this entire assembly speaker wire was partially wound >which is different from the example given at the site where each winding is >series wound on the outer cylinders. Now I happened to have an extremely >nosey neighbor who may have seen me moving these items in my garage when I >was cleaning. I've got to admit the whole assembly with wires sticking out >and stuff might resemble some kind of dynamite stuff,and my neighbor knew >my patriotic opinion concerning our de-facto government. Anyways the next >thing I know I had the ATF at my doorstep. I'm glad is was only a casual >enquiree. When I get to fooling around with these things again I will post >any unusual results. >Sincerly Harvey D. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------- >> To leave this list, email >> with the body text: leave keelynet >> WWW based join and leave forms and KeelyNet list archives >> are at http://dallastexas.net/keelynet/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------- > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 11:59:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA02127; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:54:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:54:45 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:05:05 -0600 To: Stefan Hartmann From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Best Newman motor coil energizing parameters... Resent-Message-ID: <"jCvqx1.0.SW.ofG7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6915 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >> You must also consider that when you collapse the coil the >> previously expanded electrons (consisting of gyroscopic massergies) have >> 'no where to go', so you need a light, etc., to "burn it off". In other >> words one much consider the interactions of 'pumping up the coil system' >> AND filling the electron-shell-'holes'." >> >> "Essentially, to understand the full system, one must realize that one >> needs something for the system to interact with -- whether a controlled >> field (e.g., additional electromagnetic fields or an uncontrolled field >>(as with a PM >> source)." >> > >Well, yes, if we look at the gyroscopes massenergies which are flying >out of the copper >coil and the PM field interact with them, then of course we have the >most collisions, >if we have the most masses out there ! > >This is also why we have to build a Newman machine BIG, cause these >gyroscopes massenergies >are so small and we want many collisions to occur ! This is also why we >need >to have a permanent magnet or another electromagnetic field change near >the coil , >so that in this "field collision" many particles can hit and bump >together and produce OU energy >via E=mc^2 -snip- >Regards, Stefan. LARGE coils *and/or* INCREASE the "pulse" rate into the system. ERS From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 14:17:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA03621; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:13:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:13:00 -0700 Message-ID: <470BB5EA.884@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 10:10:02 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: keelynet@dallastexas Subject: Re: Tesla Patent References: <199810080740.DAA21061@fh102.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"e74r-3.0.Vu.RhI7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6916 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Mr Norris, You wrote: > > Some months ago A patent by Tesla, which actually was only a hint at > possibilities and of course not a how to guide, was posted by some involved > in the list. This involved constructing an inductor with a built in > capacitance...... > I think you'r referring to Tesla's patent No. 312540 7th July 1893, entitled "Coil for Electromagnet". In this, the form of the winding increases the voltage between turns, therefore increasing the capacitive energy storage within the inductor. I have this scan stored in three .GIF files, and also as straight text, which is easier to read than the .GIF text. If this is the one you'r after, let me know and I'll forward it to you direct. (And to anyone else who may be interested). Funny thing...... I woke up this morning thinking about that patent. Regards, Stuart -- ================================================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 16:12:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA15235; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:07:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:07:31 -0700 MR-Received: by mta SOCCER; Relayed; Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:08:38 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:08:50 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:07:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: GEET/Tesla Turbine To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_AxUnkWilKZZQ4B8y61YFiA)" Posting-date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal Sensitivity: Company-Confidential UA-content-id: E1776ZXPFRCEW0 X400-MTS-identifier: [;83809180018991/3275202@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"WfobY2.0.xj3.oMK7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6917 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --Boundary_(ID_AxUnkWilKZZQ4B8y61YFiA) Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII --Boundary_(ID_AxUnkWilKZZQ4B8y61YFiA) Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:44:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: GEET/Tesla Turbine To: Bill Briggs Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Delivery-date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:06:00 -0400 (EDT) Posting-date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:06:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Sensitivity: Company-Confidential A1-type: MAIL Lee, A Tesla Turbine works on Adhesion & Cohesion instead of friction. Take a stack of thin disk shaped metal plates. Drill a big hole down the center of each. Make the same number of little "Y" shaped stars, each star has a keyed hole in the center to except a motor shaft. Rivet a star to the center of each disk, so that each disk looks like it has 3 big holes grouped around the center. (plus the smaller hole for the motor shaft) Rivet the stack of disks together with a little space in between. Wrap a donut like shell around all the disks. Cut a notch in the outer rim of the shell, with a vent like deflector. The shell should now have a volute or nautilus shell shape. Run a motor shaft through the center of the "Y"'s, and seal the end of the donut hole that the shaft is sticking out of. Now spin the shaft with a motor, some of the air between the disks will adhere to the disk (adhesion). The rest of the air will try to stick to this surface air (cohesion). But centrifugal force is also forcing the air to the outer rim. Air is forced out the vent on the outside edge, this leaves a partial vacuum in the center that pulls in more air. It works like a blower for air, or a pump for fluids. But it will also work in reverse. If you force high pressure air (steam, combustion chamber gases) in, through the rim vent it will force the disks to spin using the same principle. Then instead of a motor turning the disks, the disks turn a generator. (Or the wheels of your car, or whatever) Or like a jet engine, you can have one stack of disks pump (compress) air into a combustion chamber. Add some fuel and ignition, to create high pressure combustion gases. Exhaust it through a second stack of disks to create spin force. Finally connect both stacks together with a shaft. You can then optimize it for either propulsion or torque. This is a very simplistic description of how it works, for more info: http://www.execpc.com/~teba/ Bill (webriggs@concentric.net) >BT Bill, a bladeless turbine "sounds" like a ramjet to me. Does it produce >anything besides propulsion, like turning gears or a rotor shaft? > >Lee > >At 10:14 AM 10/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Lee, >> >>GEET has a web page >> >> http://www.Friend.ly.Net/GEET/ >> >>In brief, they preheat the fuel prior to combustion. >> >>Also in a recent article in the Tesla Engine Builders Association newsletter >>TEBA News, >> >> http://www.execpc.com/~teba/ >> >>TEBA member David Young continues his story detailing his experiences with a >>propane powered bladeless gas turbine. He has constructed a bladeless blower >>toward experimentation with a totally bladeless device. >> >>He improved his combustion chamber efficiency significantly by using the >>GEET type effect. He looped the sealed fuel line through the combustion >>chamber prior to the normal fuel inlet ports. He got a significant >>increase in heat for the same amount of propane. >> >>Bill --Boundary_(ID_AxUnkWilKZZQ4B8y61YFiA)-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 16:14:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA16077; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:10:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:10:07 -0700 Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:02:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19981008181444.40df2940@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: Re: Electrical Element causes Mist Resent-Message-ID: <"ZCBYj1.0.0x3.FPK7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6918 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have seen mist form with ultrasonic transducer that the medical field uses.... put a drop on the surface and it atomizes it... don't think it is steam but more of an atomizer mist. Often I wonder if some thing like this could atomize a petrol fule before it enters the cylinder before igniting... something along the way of people tried using a fine mesh screen under the carborator to break up the gas into fine droplets and would burn more efficiently. wonder if diesel fuel could be atomized for more effcient burn. just thoughts mike s. At 06:59 AM 10/7/98 -0700, you wrote: > >For those interested. I just obtained the following: > >"Electric Element causes high frequency vibration which alters molecular >structure of water. > >Smoker Model SM-05 >Big Ben Industries Co (Ltd) >Tacoma, WA >Made in Taiwan. >Power is a 120VAC to 40VAC transformer at .4 amps. > >Used in Water Fountain Sculpture by > >Water Escapes >Lars Edshammar >PO Box 2777, Friday Harbor, WA 98250 >(360) 378-3975 > >Enjoy > >Lee > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 17:35:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA11288; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:23:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:23:31 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981008084141.00a193e0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 08:41:41 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Fuel cells on Apollo produced water and electricity. In-Reply-To: <470BB5EA.884@mlb.planet.gen.nz> References: <199810080740.DAA21061@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"RRhG52.0.Gm2.xTL7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6919 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: FWIW: I'm reading a book by Maurice Chatelain (again). Maurice, now deceased, was the NASA Chief of Communications on the Apollo Missions. In his book he mentions a few facts about the Spacecraft not generally released to the public for instance. "The fuel cells were the source of both electric current and water supply for the Apollo craft. These ingenious cells combined liquid hydrogen and oxygen to produce both electric current and water in one operation. It was a simple idea, but somebody had to think of it." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 17:37:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA11515; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:24:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:24:17 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981008084250.00a193e0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 08:42:50 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Tesla Patent In-Reply-To: <470BB5EA.884@mlb.planet.gen.nz> References: <199810080740.DAA21061@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"KkHB62.0.No2.HUL7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6920 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:10 AM 10/9/07 -0700, you wrote: >Dear Mr Norris, > >You wrote: > >> >> Some months ago A patent by Tesla, which actually was only a hint at >> possibilities and of course not a how to guide, was posted by some involved >> in the list. This involved constructing an inductor with a built in >> capacitance...... >> > >I think you'r referring to Tesla's patent No. 312540 7th July 1893, entitled >"Coil for Electromagnet". In this, the form of the winding increases the >voltage between turns, therefore increasing the capacitive energy storage >within the inductor. > >I have this scan stored in three .GIF files, and also as straight text, which >is easier to read than the .GIF text. > >If this is the one you'r after, let me know and I'll forward it to you >direct. (And to anyone else who may be interested). > >Funny thing...... I woke up this morning thinking about that patent. > >Regards, > >Stuart "The Morphogenic Field Stu". Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 17:39:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA13156; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:29:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:29:43 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981008091846.00a30100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:18:46 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: GEET/Tesla Turbine In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"T2bSY3.0.JD3.gZL7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6921 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks Bill, for your patience and your clear form of expression. You must be a teacher as well :) Lee At 07:07 PM 10/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:44:13 -0400 (EDT) >From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 >Subject: Re: GEET/Tesla Turbine >To: Bill Briggs >Message-id: >MIME-version: 1.0 >Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII >Delivery-date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:06:00 -0400 (EDT) >Posting-date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:06:00 -0400 (EDT) >Importance: normal >Sensitivity: Company-Confidential >A1-type: MAIL > >Lee, > >A Tesla Turbine works on Adhesion & Cohesion instead of friction. > >Take a stack of thin disk shaped metal plates. >Drill a big hole down the center of each. > >Make the same number of little "Y" shaped stars, >each star has a keyed hole in the center to except a motor shaft. > >Rivet a star to the center of each disk, >so that each disk looks like it has 3 big holes grouped around the center. >(plus the smaller hole for the motor shaft) > >Rivet the stack of disks together with a little space in between. >Wrap a donut like shell around all the disks. >Cut a notch in the outer rim of the shell, with a vent like deflector. >The shell should now have a volute or nautilus shell shape. > >Run a motor shaft through the center of the "Y"'s, >and seal the end of the donut hole that the shaft is sticking out of. > >Now spin the shaft with a motor, >some of the air between the disks will adhere to the disk (adhesion). >The rest of the air will try to stick to this surface air (cohesion). >But centrifugal force is also forcing the air to the outer rim. >Air is forced out the vent on the outside edge, >this leaves a partial vacuum in the center that pulls in more air. >It works like a blower for air, or a pump for fluids. > >But it will also work in reverse. > >If you force high pressure air (steam, combustion chamber gases) in, >through the rim vent it will force the disks to spin using the same principle. >Then instead of a motor turning the disks, the disks turn a generator. >(Or the wheels of your car, or whatever) > >Or like a jet engine, you can have one stack of disks pump (compress) air >into a combustion chamber. Add some fuel and ignition, to create high >pressure combustion gases. Exhaust it through a second stack of disks to >create spin force. Finally connect both stacks together with a shaft. > >You can then optimize it for either propulsion or torque. > >This is a very simplistic description of how it works, for more info: > > http://www.execpc.com/~teba/ > >Bill >(webriggs@concentric.net) > >>BT Bill, a bladeless turbine "sounds" like a ramjet to me. Does it produce >>anything besides propulsion, like turning gears or a rotor shaft? >> >>Lee >> >>At 10:14 AM 10/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>Lee, >>> >>>GEET has a web page >>> >>> http://www.Friend.ly.Net/GEET/ >>> >>>In brief, they preheat the fuel prior to combustion. >>> >>>Also in a recent article in the Tesla Engine Builders Association newsletter >>>TEBA News, >>> >>> http://www.execpc.com/~teba/ >>> >>>TEBA member David Young continues his story detailing his experiences with a >>>propane powered bladeless gas turbine. He has constructed a bladeless blower >>>toward experimentation with a totally bladeless device. >>> >>>He improved his combustion chamber efficiency significantly by using the >>>GEET type effect. He looped the sealed fuel line through the combustion >>>chamber prior to the normal fuel inlet ports. He got a significant >>>increase in heat for the same amount of propane. >>> >>>Bill > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 18:24:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA04135; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:19:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:19:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <361D8A96.31C9@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 21:01:26 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: How magnets work for health References: <199810080447.VAA25220@mailhub2.ncal.verio.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"s4v8V.0.T01.zIM7s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6922 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: silliman wrote: > > Bob, > Have you read Steven Rado's book? Steven and I disagree about how > magnets work. He thinks that two 'sucking inflows' repel, which he shows > pictures/graphics in his book 'Aethro-Kinematics'. Never heard of it. How does he describe the process by which two 'sucking inflows' repel? > My model is both ends having outflow, but with different spins to the > flow. If this is the case, you now need to explain why the lines of flux are always closed. If more and more 'stuff' came out of each end, why doen't the field keep growing larger and larger over time? As I seem to recall this other 'interpretation', the flows dont actually 'repel', but appear to repel because more space is being drawn into the region between 'sucking inflows'. Becuase the 'current' through the magnet is a constant (a series circuit if you will) the 'force' is exactly equal when we compare this condition to the case of two outflows, again we are drawing more space into the region between the two opposed poles. This predicts a qualitiative difference between N-N repulsion and S-S repulsion, but not a quantitative difference in the 'force', where the quality refers to the orientation of the proposed eather flow. When uneffected by other nearby flows, the outflow wraps back to the inflow and we have the closed loop of the magnetic flux. I still cannot recall where I first read this theory though, its maddening! I do seem to recall that the twist, or rotation of the flow was external to the magnet, and accounted for the magnetic 'curl'. This is slightly different than my first reccolection that placed the twist inside the body of the magnet. Does anyone recognise this theory/model? Who was the original author? Maybe Jerry D. or Bill B. might have come across something like this before? Is this Rado's work?? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 18:31:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA04475; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:29:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:29:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199810090130.VAA28444@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Cc: Subject: Re: Tesla Patent Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:49:32 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ubwd22.0.q51.uRM7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6923 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- > From: Stuart Rae > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Cc: keelynet@dallastexas > Subject: Re: Tesla Patent > Date: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 12:10 PM > > Dear Mr Norris, > > You wrote: > > > > > Some months ago A patent by Tesla, which actually was only a hint at > > possibilities and of course not a how to guide, was posted by some involved > > in the list. This involved constructing an inductor with a built in > > capacitance...... > > > > I think you'r referring to Tesla's patent No. 312540 7th July 1893, entitled > "Coil for Electromagnet". In this, the form of the winding increases the > voltage between turns, therefore increasing the capacitive energy storage > within the inductor. > Thanks Stu,I went and found this patent 512,340, by the way, in my July mail in which Stefan Hartman had forwarded me the info. Thanx for the help.HDN mnorris@akron.ifi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 18:46:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA10466; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:43:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:43:32 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981008103535.00a1b590@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 10:35:35 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Exotic Patents In-Reply-To: <199810080740.DAA21061@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"nGCip1.0.HZ2.4fM7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6924 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Going through my bookshelf, I discovered a book that has been sitting there unread for a few years. It was in shrink wrap even. Exotic Patents, Biago Conti, PO Box 1014, Carmel, NY 10512. It is in Spiral binder form. Exotic, suppressed and Secret Patents of the U.S. Patent Office. Antigraviy Free energy motors 200mpg carburetors Flying Discs Radionics Hieronymus Tesla Lakhovsky and much more. Mainly they are patent number, date, inventor and description For instance 3,492,881 2/30/70 Auweele Prime Mover (anti gravity space drive). 3,474,014 10/21/69 Aul Electrogravitational Desalination of Saline Water (I could use that with Y2K coming up). Even some background on the patent holders, like Patrick Flanagan, Edwin V. Gray (a motor that requires no fuel and produces no waste). Johnson, Howard #4,151,431, in which the power is generated by magnets alone.I have an address to write to, took 6 years of hassle to get this free energy motor patented. T.T. Brown patents (1,974,483) (2,949,5550) (3,018,394) (3,022,430) (3,187,206) (3,223,887, (3,518,462). J.R. Fish - Carburetor with 20% better gas mileage, sold by Fuel Systems of America, Box 9333, Tacoma, WA 98401 Otis T. Carr, antigrav flying saucer, certain secrets of his flying saucer were incorporated in his "Amusement Device" patent (2,912,244), A few years ago Carr was advertising his model A-AX1 energy system that produced 15,000 watts from an input of only 5,000 watts. Also a list of Resources like Cadake Industries, which published Rolf Schaffranke's Ether Technology, A rational approach to gravity control under the name of Rho Sigma and some selected patent illustrations as well. For instance 4,185,593 Transformation of Electrical Energy to Physical Energy McClure, Kenneth S 1/29/80 An improved means for the removal of hydrogen from a catalytic cathode means whereby the hydrogen may be recombined with oxygen to provide explosive force to power an internal combustion engine. I just notice a flyer, for $2, you can get a report "persuasion and brainwashing techniques used on the public today" This report details exactly how brainwashing techniquest are used by public figures, in the media and other institutions. This probably won't thrill some, but he has the Joseph Newman South African "Free Energy" Patent application, 44 pages stapled, cost $10 plus $3 shipping and handling. Multiple Wave Oscillator, Patent and Article by Georges Lakhovsky 10 pages, $5 + $1 s.h. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 19:24:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA25911; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:21:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:21:52 -0700 Message-ID: <361D9B4C.9B@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 22:12:44 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fuel cells on Apollo produced water and electricity. References: <199810080740.DAA21061@fh102.infi.net> <3.0.5.32.19981008084141.00a193e0@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6zxpc2.0.kK6._CN7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6925 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > > FWIW: I'm reading a book by Maurice Chatelain (again). Maurice, now > deceased, was the NASA Chief of Communications on the Apollo Missions. In > his book he mentions a few facts about the Spacecraft not generally > released to the public for instance. > > "The fuel cells were the source of both electric current and water supply > for the Apollo craft. These ingenious cells combined liquid hydrogen and > oxygen to produce both electric current and water in one operation. It was > a simple idea, but somebody had to think of it." Ahh, actually that was released. You can buy a 50 watt fuel cell that is a small cube, not much larger than the long side of a nine volt battery on each side. Power comes from small metal hydride hydrogen generators and atmosphearic oxygen. These new proton membrane transport fuel cells are used commercially to power road side advisory electronic signs in New Jersey during winter months when solar energy is insufficient. These fuel cells predated the Apollo missions. Its as simple as reverse electrolysis. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 19:28:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA26923; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:24:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:24:05 -0700 Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:25:49 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: unsubscribing Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gZeYW3.0.Za6.4FN7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6926 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, Just letting you know, I'm unsubscribing here... BTW: * LEE, keep up the good word - give em H*ck :) * If you "find anything workable" consider giving it to the world first, as you can avoid many problems Final quote for all: "Discovery ... walking where none others have walked, beholding what human eyes have not seen before." -- Mark Twain -=se=- steve ( Best of Success to EVERYONE :) ekwall I'm "walking" :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 20:01:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA07043; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:55:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:55:51 -0700 From: RHammar860@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:53:52 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: A possible O/U magnetic device... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Resent-Message-ID: <"h0koM3.0.wj1.siN7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6927 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-10-08 08:01:26 EDT, you write: << Consider two bar magnets with like poles pointed at each other. They would get repelling forces. Then insert a piece of iron sheet in between them. Now the magnets should get less repelling forces or even attraction forces. And then pull the iron sheet out, and the magnets should repel again. In a cycle of this insertion-removing process, the magnets gained kinetic energy, and the iron sheet loses kinetic energy. I think the sum of the two might be positive energy gained. I have included a drawing of the idea. >> Are you talking about the John Ecklin "magnet motion converion device"? Patent # 3,879,622 This over comes Lenz's Law Ron From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 20:04:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA08657; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:59:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:59:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981008114909.00a1c680@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 11:49:09 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Fuel cells on Apollo produced water and electricity. In-Reply-To: <361D9B4C.9B@tiac.net> References: <199810080740.DAA21061@fh102.infi.net> <3.0.5.32.19981008084141.00a193e0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"UMszx3.0.-62.GmN7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6928 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wonder what other sizes they come in and what voltages that are available. At 10:12 PM 10/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: >> >> FWIW: I'm reading a book by Maurice Chatelain (again). Maurice, now >> deceased, was the NASA Chief of Communications on the Apollo Missions. In >> his book he mentions a few facts about the Spacecraft not generally >> released to the public for instance. >> >> "The fuel cells were the source of both electric current and water supply >> for the Apollo craft. These ingenious cells combined liquid hydrogen and >> oxygen to produce both electric current and water in one operation. It was >> a simple idea, but somebody had to think of it." > >Ahh, actually that was released. > >You can buy a 50 watt fuel cell that is a small cube, not much larger >than the long side of a nine volt battery on each side. Power comes >from small metal hydride hydrogen generators and atmosphearic oxygen. >These new proton membrane transport fuel cells are used commercially to >power road side advisory electronic signs in New Jersey during winter >months when solar energy is insufficient. > >These fuel cells predated the Apollo missions. Its as simple as reverse >electrolysis. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 20:05:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA11000; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:03:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:03:18 -0700 From: RHammar860@aol.com Message-ID: <33152699.361d7ab5@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:53:41 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [AEF] Occam's Razor Cuts Both Ways Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Resent-Message-ID: <"6wnMa3.0.Zh2.rpN7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6929 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-10-08 00:34:17 EDT, you write: << Does anyone know about this GEET Generator mentioned below, or anything else mentioned? Lee > > Cold Fusion is a real phenomenon. It's been tested, reproduced, > > patented, and is months away from being comercialised. In 1989, > when > Who will commercialize the cold fusion ? > [Mike.Cottrell-Tribes] There are a number of companies and researchers working on it. CETI has a large, American Company as an investor, but they aren't saying who. They have the patents on the Patterson Power Cell. >> Dr Steven Grear from SETI was on the Art Bell talk show in the last week of Sept. and said that they had a over unity power device that is being tested by a number of international PHD's and they will be making it all public before the year is out and said that a home unit should be on the market by the year 2000 at a cost of around $2,000.00 Ron From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 20:07:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA11597; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:04:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:04:20 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981008115617.00a3ba60@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 11:56:17 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: A possible O/U magnetic device... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"7QPpf3.0.3r2.oqN7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6930 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:53 PM 10/8/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-10-08 08:01:26 EDT, you write: > ><< > Consider two bar magnets with like poles pointed at each other. They > would get repelling forces. Then insert a piece of iron sheet in between > them. Now the magnets should get less repelling forces or even > attraction forces. And then pull the iron sheet out, and the magnets > should repel again. In a cycle of this insertion-removing process, the > magnets gained kinetic energy, and the iron sheet loses kinetic energy. > I think the sum of the two might be positive energy gained. I have > included a drawing of the idea. >> > >Are you talking about the John Ecklin "magnet motion converion device"? >Patent # 3,879,622 >This over comes Lenz's Law > >Ron Above patent also Ref: (1,724,446) (3,609,425) 3,703,653) (3,773,439) (3,811,058) Source: Exotic Patents, mentioned previously From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 20:08:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA12324; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:05:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:05:09 -0700 From: RHammar860@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:53:53 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Tesla Patent Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Resent-Message-ID: <"UVOXS3.0.Q03.arN7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6931 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-10-08 17:18:30 EDT, you write: << I think you'r referring to Tesla's patent No. 312540 7th July 1893, entitled "Coil for Electromagnet". In this, the form of the winding increases the voltage between turns, therefore increasing the capacitive energy storage within the inductor. I have this scan stored in three .GIF files, and also as straight text, which is easier to read than the .GIF text. If this is the one you'r after, let me know and I'll forward it to you direct. (And to anyone else who may be interested). >> YES!! I would be interested in a copy of it!! Ron Hammar E-Mail RHammar860@AOL.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 20:09:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA14327; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:07:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:07:35 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981008115916.00a162b0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 11:59:16 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: [AEF] Occam's Razor Cuts Both Ways In-Reply-To: <33152699.361d7ab5@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"6AJJy3.0.fV3.rtN7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6932 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:53 PM 10/8/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-10-08 00:34:17 EDT, you write: > ><< Does anyone know about this GEET Generator mentioned below, or anything > else mentioned? > > Lee > > > > Cold Fusion is a real phenomenon. It's been tested, reproduced, > > > patented, and is months away from being comercialised. In 1989, > > when > > Who will commercialize the cold fusion ? > > > [Mike.Cottrell-Tribes] > There are a number of companies and researchers working on it. > CETI has a large, American Company as an investor, but they aren't > saying who. They have the patents on the Patterson Power Cell. >> > >Dr Steven Grear from SETI was on the Art Bell talk show in the last week of >Sept. and said that they had a over unity power device that is being tested by >a number of international PHD's and they will be making it all public before >the year is out and said that a home unit should be on the market by the year >2000 at a cost of around $2,000.00 > >Ron If they don't get killed in a car or airplane accident or commit mass suicide in some "cult" thing. I'm lining up as a purchaser. Somehow I don't think the Electric Power Research Institute or the Oil powers will be much happy with such a development or device. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 23:49:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA16048; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:47:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:47:47 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981009161847.00861100@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 16:18:47 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re: Geoff Egel list In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19981007184518.006bcab8@mail.wincom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"jigbC3.0.ew3.I6R7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6933 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:45 PM 10/7/98 -0400, you wrote: > Is anyone else having trouble trying to post to Geoff's new list? It >worked when he first opened it but I haven't been able to post to the list >or at least I am not recieving any messages either from the list or saying >my email bounced. I couldn't have been kicked off the list this soon. > > > > Woody > > Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick >themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) > >I seem to be getting your messages okay Geoff Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 9 06:41:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA31141; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:37:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:37:52 -0700 Message-ID: <361E1392.775@lcia.com> Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 09:45:54 -0400 From: B25B@LCIA.COM (RON BRENNEN) Reply-To: b25b@LCIA.COM X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tesla Patent References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kQqZ42.0.Oc7.l6X7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6934 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: RHammar860@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 98-10-08 17:18:30 EDT, you write: > > << > I think you'r referring to Tesla's patent No. 312540 7th July 1893, entitled > "Coil for Electromagnet". In this, the form of the winding increases the > voltage between turns, therefore increasing the capacitive energy storage > within the inductor. > > I have this scan stored in three .GIF files, and also as straight text, which > is easier to read than the .GIF text. > > If this is the one you'r after, let me know and I'll forward it to you > direct. (And to anyone else who may be interested). > >> > > YES!! I would be interested in a copy of it!! > > Ron Hammar > E-Mail RHammar860@AOL.com I also would be interested. Ron Brennen B25B@LCIA.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 9 09:10:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA17907; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:07:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:07:36 -0700 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <33152699.361d7ab5@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:12:55 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: [AEF] Occam's Razor Cuts Both Ways Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id JAA17871 Resent-Message-ID: <"MgtxS3.0.hN4.8JZ7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6936 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Dr Steven Grear from SETI was on the Art Bell talk show in the last week of >Sept. and said that they had a over unity power device that is being tested by >a number of international PHD's and they will be making it all public before >the year is out and said that a home unit should be on the market by the year >2000 at a cost of around $2,000.00 > >Ron This is good news. Dr. Steven Greer, M.D. from CSETI is highly respected and appears to be a high level advisor to government officials as well. If this is not just a deception or diversion engineered by high government circles, then this is important new s. Did he give any details? Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 9 09:19:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07316; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:09:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:09:01 -0700 (PDT) Old-X-Envelope-To: Message-ID: <001f01bdf39c$e3383000$7d8319d4@XXX> From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Vicente_Jos=E9_Ramos_Orenga?=" To: Subject: RE: A possible O/U magnetic device... Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:52:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"8Svj93.0.mn1.HKZ7s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6935 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Jim and all This is the principle used in the Schumacher magnetic motor. there are two rotors, one made with magnets and other made with iron sheets. Iron sheets are synchronized by a conventional motor, and regulates the repulsion / null (not attraction, only the neutral point) between the magnet rotor and the fixed magnets (stator). Vicente. -----Mensaje original----- De: Jim T. Lin Para: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fecha: jueves, 08 de octubre de 1998 14:06 Asunto: A possible O/U magnetic device... >Consider two bar magnets with like poles pointed at each other. They >would get repelling forces. Then insert a piece of iron sheet in between >them. Now the magnets should get less repelling forces or even >attraction forces. And then pull the iron sheet out, and the magnets >should repel again. In a cycle of this insertion-removing process, the >magnets gained kinetic energy, and the iron sheet loses kinetic energy. >I think the sum of the two might be positive energy gained. I have >included a drawing of the idea. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 9 09:33:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA31284; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:28:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:28:48 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19981009152914.006e2d88@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 11:29:14 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: How magnets work for health Resent-Message-ID: <"r5mlc.0.je7._cZ7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6937 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:01 PM 10/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >If more and more 'stuff' came out of each end, why doen't the field keep >growing larger and larger over time? > Isn't the magnetic field part of the environment rather than a part of the magnet? To prove it spin a magnet around its axis in a coil and nothing happens. Spin a coil around a magnet electricity is formed. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 9 09:40:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA03436; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:36:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:36:08 -0700 From: RHammar860@aol.com Message-ID: <3b63b750.361e3ac6@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:33:10 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [AEF] Occam's Razor Cuts Both Ways Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Resent-Message-ID: <"dGlCm2.0.Lr.tjZ7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6938 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-10-09 12:11:54 EDT, you write: << >Dr Steven Grear from SETI was on the Art Bell talk show in the last week of >Sept. and said that they had a over unity power device that is being tested by >a number of international PHD's and they will be making it all public before >the year is out and said that a home unit should be on the market by the year >2000 at a cost of around $2,000.00 > >Ron This is good news. Dr. Steven Greer, M.D. from CSETI is highly respected and appears to be a high level advisor to government officials as well. If this is not just a deception or diversion engineered by high government circles, then this is important news. Did he give any details? Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda Yes he said that they are going right to the puplic with this and not to the government so it can not be shut down because of the puplic knowing that such a thing is there for them. And also because Washington is frozen with its own problems. Go to the Art Bell web site and look up his name WWW.Artbell.com Ron From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 9 10:21:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA23097; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:15:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:15:18 -0700 MR-Received: by mta SOCCER; Relayed; Fri, 09 Oct 1998 13:16:22 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Fri, 09 Oct 1998 13:16:33 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 13:06:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: GEET/Tesla Turbine In-reply-to: <3.0.5.32.19981008091846.00a30100@rockisland.com> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 13:16:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E1769ZXPGIYSQK X400-MTS-identifier: [;22613190018991/3276780@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"ER0RN1.0.oe5.aIa7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6939 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee, Nope, just a Programmer/Analyst Consultant type, with FAR TO MANY non-technical users to deal with. %^) Bill (snip) >Thanks Bill, for your patience and your clear form of expression. You must >be a teacher as well > >:) > >Lee ________________________________________________________/////___________ | William E. Briggs Jr. | ~ ~ | | webriggs@concentric.net | -@-@- | |-------------------------|---------------------------ooo--U--ooo--------| | XLN Systems, Inc. |Ideas presented are my own hair brained ideas,| | Columbus, OH |and not the hair brained ideas of my employer.| ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 9 14:08:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA22316; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:03:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:03:14 -0700 Message-ID: <361EA21B.1D08@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 16:54:03 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: How magnets work for health References: <2.2.32.19981009152914.006e2d88@mail.wincom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"q2gNU3.0.US5.Ied7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6940 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: wood wrote: > > At 09:01 PM 10/8/98 -0700, you wrote: > >If more and more 'stuff' came out of each end, why doen't the field keep > >growing larger and larger over time? > > > > Isn't the magnetic field part of the environment rather than a part of the > magnet? To prove it spin a magnet around its axis in a coil and nothing > happens. Spin a coil around a magnet electricity is formed. > > Woody Really? What about the N machines and Farady's generator? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 9 14:20:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA29378; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:17:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:17:02 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981009061633.00a488d0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 06:16:33 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: RE: [AEF] Occam's Razor Cuts Both Ways Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"xQTMM3.0.uA7.Drd7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6941 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I don't know if Mike is on this forum, but he should be. Here is a personal response to me. At the end he advises against confusing SETI with CETI. Lee **************************************************************************** *********** I've been in contact with GEET for the last year or so, and am trying to get a distributorship set up in Yukon, but their developments have been slower than anticipated. I'm trying to get one of their generators up for an Energy Expo next month. > -----Original Message----- > From: Lee Markland [SMTP:markland@rockisland.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 1998 12:02 PM > To: Mike.Cottrell-Tribes > Subject: Re: [AEF] Occam's Razor Cuts Both Ways > > In a message dated 98-10-08 00:34:17 EDT, you write: > > << Does anyone know about this GEET Generator mentioned below, or > anything > else mentioned? > > Lee > > > > Cold Fusion is a real phenomenon. It's been tested, reproduced, > > > patented, and is months away from being comercialised. In 1989, > > when > > Who will commercialize the cold fusion ? > > > [Mike.Cottrell-Tribes] > There are a number of companies and researchers working on it. > CETI has a large, American Company as an investor, but they aren't > saying who. They have the patents on the Patterson Power Cell. >> > > Dr Steven Grear from SETI was on the Art Bell talk show in the last > week of > Sept. and said that they had a over unity power device that is being > tested by > a number of international PHD's and they will be making it all public > before > the year is out and said that a home unit should be on the market by > the year > 2000 at a cost of around $2,000.00 > > Ron [Mike.Cottrell-Tribes] Let's not get SETI mixed up with CETI. Very different... Good to hear that CETI is finally getting their stuff out! This is the first I've heard of an official timeline. They've been pretty silent since they got their investor involved. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 9 14:21:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA29398; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:17:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981009061750.00a48420@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 06:17:50 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: GEET/Tesla Turbine In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19981008091846.00a30100@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZHhpJ.0.AB7.Frd7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6942 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:06 PM 10/9/98 -0400, you wrote: >Lee, > >Nope, just a Programmer/Analyst Consultant type, >with FAR TO MANY non-technical users to deal with. %^) > >Bill Well the shoe fits here :) Lee >>Thanks Bill, for your patience and your clear form of expression. You must >>be a teacher as well >> >>:) >> >>Lee > > ________________________________________________________/////___________ >| William E. Briggs Jr. | ~ ~ | >| webriggs@concentric.net | -@-@- | >|-------------------------|---------------------------ooo--U--ooo--------| >| XLN Systems, Inc. |Ideas presented are my own hair brained ideas,| >| Columbus, OH |and not the hair brained ideas of my employer.| > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 9 18:36:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA25603; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:33:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:33:54 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981010110453.00884490@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:04:53 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: A magnetic field thought experiment. In-Reply-To: <361D8A96.31C9@tiac.net> References: <199810080447.VAA25220@mailhub2.ncal.verio.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"sKQWG1.0.wF6.1ch7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6943 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:01 PM 10/8/98 -0700, you wrote: I was reading some papers on permanent magnets and in particular the spiral spinning electron theory to produce a a magnetic field. I think it is assumed that there is only one direction of travel and depending on direction of travel that will produce poles of north and sound at each end. My though is what if this wrong and that there are in fact two or more spiral pathways in the magnet material core, with one path top to to bottom and the other bottom to top and depending on relative strength the stronger pathway will produce a the stronger north south combination in any given material. On only has to look at our twin DNA spiral to get some idea how this may work. IT occurs to me that this could be tested by winding two coils in a manner similiar to caduceus wound or smith coil on metal rod (soft iron ,ferrite or whatever) Both Coils I would assume be wound in the same direction or could also be a twisted pair and then wound on a common magnetic core. I sure there are several ways to accomplish the same thing . Connect the coil windins up with two batteries with one coil lead top to postive battery terminal and bottom lead to negative terminal of same battery. For the second coil reverse the battery connections for the second coil and battery connection that is top coil lead to negative terminal of second battery and and bottom lead to positive terminal of second battery.. If also variable resistors were also placed in the battery and coil combinations you would be able to adjust the voltage and current supplied to both coils. The coil then with greater current would it seem be able to produce a greater magnetic field in a given direction. By altering the current and voltage settings we should be able to change one pole position to north to south and so on. Interesting effects may be also be noticed by applying alternating currents of varing frequences to both coils in both opposition and and or in combination with one another. I know some may say that we can simply change magnetic field poles by simply using an alternating current but what I saying that a completely new way at looking at what is now accepted and who knows we may observe if we tried the experiement. Just a thought Has anyone actually tried this Geoff Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 9 19:11:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA07396; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 19:09:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 19:09:07 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDF3B8.E8C1F800.kap808@europa.com> From: Stephen Kaplan Reply-To: "kap808@europa.com" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: Unsuscribing Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:56:20 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 98 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"iiPnY1.0.Qp1.17i7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6944 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I want to unsuscribe to this list. I wish all involved great success in their quest for new knowledge on new energy. If somebody does come up with something workable, I trust I will hear about. As a final contribution, I want to offer the following message that was sent to the folks who are organizaing the March for Peaceful Energy, scheduled for Washington, D.C. on Oct. 24, 1998 (see www.peacefulenergy.org). The message is from an annonymous party: Jon-William > Hi Jon, Thanks for all the information on the March for Peaceful Energy. > Actually Jon the only thing I heard was the Tesla Society MAY be part of > the presentations at your event. Nothing concrete was known or voiced. > Very interesting Malove and Valone dropped out. I would think Valone > would have been part of it as he lives there. Perhaps you are > encountering some of the unseen politics (and psychology) involved with > energy and the movement to develop new alternative sources. The name of > the game in Money & Power. Scares most people. Something I've seen over > the years is it is sometimes difficult to tell the good guys from the > bad guys. There are a lot of inside players, shysters, liars, con-men > (and women) and hidden agendas within other devious shadowy agendas. > Some feel it is their sacred duty to protect the status quo because they > fear the changes that would come. How silly and child-like.... There are > also a whole huge contingent of wholesome and loving people supporting > this new movement. This has developed during the past few years. > > One thing about some inventors is they tend to be more fully right > brained and a bit skidish. Some (but not all of course) are down right > difficult to deal with because of over blown egos, fear, etc. Looks to > me like you are finding this and other things out first hand. Most are a > beauty to associate with. Lots of love and understanding helps to pull > things together. I for one feel there ought to be more coincident > action between all the factions you mention. But that is idealistic and > probably not reasonable considering all the money and power at stake and > the human weakness for/about same. Until there is a more general > awareness of the unlimitable nature of the universe I think there will > be these squabbles over what some perceive as the limited resources > available like financing, pecking order politics, etc. on the molecular > (3-D) realm. > > My long-time research with the dynasphere, vortex dynamics/mechanics and > the Great Neutrality (Love) of energy states shows there is no limit to > energy available to us. I see in my travels around and discussions with > other inventors a plethora of avenues to tap into this unlimited source. > It is there for the asking/taking and will be developed via many > different (some vastly different) modes of transformation. But this > level of energy cannot be tapped or even recognized by egoistic > approaches from the molecular realm ideas and mechanics. One MUST look > higher to the more tenuous realms of matter & energy, heart & mind. All > attempts on the molecular level (Newtonian) are doomed to failure > because the physical realm is an effect of the so-called spiritual realm > (most tenuous realms of matter & energy). So all the squabbling over > finite resources are a waste of time and focus doomed to mimic > child-like behaviors not unlike "Lord of the Flies" kind of insanity. > Lots of adults running around out there like fear-filled little children > attacking this and that perceived threat to their assumed comforts.... > > If it is true that ether seeks a center when caused to rotate and this > has been confirmed by Keely, mine and others' observations... > > and if > > E=mc2 is anywhere near an approximation to reality > > then the faster something spins the greater its energy content and the > smaller it gets. Give it near infinite spin and it becomes near > infinitely small containing near infinite energy. (Quite logical, > really. As Spock would say.) > > Therefore, > > we MUST search into the tiny realms of so-called sub-atomic particles > (rotating and focalized centers) to tap into near infinite sources of > energy. Searching into the relatively and ponderously slow motion of the > molecule we find limited energy manifestations. > > On a much larger scale machines like dynaspheres can be created which > utilize these spin characteristics associated in a macrocosmic form > sometimes referred to as fractal arrangements (As Above so Below). Our > dynasphere is a fractal of a sun, planet, molecule or tinier > centralization of vibratory forces. It also demonstrates the dynamics of > hurricane and tornado swirl motions. The rules, laws and dynamics which > govern one form of manifestation governs them all. > > Getting back to the politics of educating our servants and employees in > DC, in our states, counties/cities and our neighbors elsewhere I'd say > you have your hands full. There are as many philosophies about what > makes the world turn and machines move as their are people working in > the diverse fields. So much for repeatable science experiments when > power & money motivates instead of Truth/Love. Until Truth/Love can put > bread on the table people will go with what does as long as they believe > in the current belief systems based on fear and lack. Our work here is > to prove and then create the New View that it is OK to relinquish our > death grip on our old belief systems which are in reality doing far more > to lead us into insanity and to kill us than to keep us healthy > mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually and socially. I wish you > the best of luck in your work and please keep us posted as to > developments. Blessings to you all, From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 9 19:27:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA14680; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 19:25:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 19:25:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981010023344.00d91b60@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 22:33:44 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: A magnetic field thought experiment. Cc: alex@frolov.spb.ru, DaleSVP@ipa.net, wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu, hic@world.std.com, jsearl@tako.demon.co.uk, 71650.60@CompuServe.COM Resent-Message-ID: <"93BIP2.0.Ib3._Li7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6945 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Glen Reim has worked on this field and states that any change in winding angle, wire cross over points, etc. will produce a different topology. There is an optimal angle of 22.5 degrees I believe. But then there's the 19.47 degree angle imbedded in the universe that appears to be interesting: http://www.cc.rochester.edu/College/RTC/Borge/aniso.html It seems to me that there are two different ways to wind a coil; right handed and left handed. There are also two different ways to introduce current into a wire; positive-negative or negative-positive. Does this mean there are four possible permutations? I know changing winding handedness is equivilent to switching current direction; but is this absolutely certain in all respects? Dennis At 11:04 AM 10/10/98 +0900, you wrote: >At 09:01 PM 10/8/98 -0700, you wrote: > >I was reading some papers on permanent magnets and in particular the spiral >spinning electron theory to produce a a magnetic field. > >I think it is assumed that there is only one direction of travel and >depending on direction of travel that will produce poles of north and >sound at each end. > >My though is what if this wrong and that there are in fact two or more >spiral pathways in the magnet material core, with one path top to to >bottom and the other bottom to top and depending on relative strength the >stronger pathway will produce a the stronger north south combination in >any given material. > >On only has to look at our twin DNA spiral to get some idea how this may work. > >IT occurs to me that this could be tested by winding two coils in a >manner similiar to caduceus wound or smith coil on metal rod (soft iron >,ferrite or whatever) >Both Coils I would assume be wound in the same direction or could also be >a twisted pair and then wound on a common magnetic core. > >I sure there are several ways to accomplish the same thing . > >Connect the coil windins up with two batteries >with one coil lead top to postive battery terminal and bottom lead to >negative terminal of same battery. > >For the second coil reverse the battery connections for the second coil >and battery connection that is top coil lead to negative terminal of >second battery and and bottom lead to positive terminal of second battery.. > >If also variable resistors were also placed in the battery and coil >combinations you would be able to adjust the voltage and current supplied >to both coils. > >The coil then with greater current would it seem be able to produce a >greater magnetic field in a given direction. > >By altering the current and voltage settings we should be able to change >one pole position to north to south and so on. > >Interesting effects may be also be noticed by applying alternating currents >of varing frequences to both coils in both opposition and and or in >combination with one another. > >I know some may say that we can simply change magnetic field poles by >simply using an alternating current but what I saying that a completely >new way at looking >at what is now accepted and who knows we may observe if we tried the >experiement. Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 9 22:00:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA23241; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 21:59:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 21:59:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199810100501.WAA18008@mailhub2.ncal.verio.com> From: "silliman" To: Subject: Re: How magnets work for health Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 21:51:26 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1085 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AMK5T2.0.2h5.nck7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6946 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- > From: Bob Shannon > Date: Thursday, October 08, 1998 9:01 PM > > silliman wrote: > > > > Bob, > > > > > Have you read Steven Rado's book? Steven and I disagree about how > > magnets work. He thinks that two 'sucking inflows' repel, which he shows > > pictures/graphics in his book 'Aethro-Kinematics'. > > Never heard of it. How does he describe the process by which two > 'sucking inflows' repel? He says the turbulence generated near the inflow orifice causes the repelling (which I don't buy). > > > My model is both ends having outflow, but with different spins to the > > flow. > > If this is the case, you now need to explain why the lines of flux are > always closed. See your own explanation later. > > If more and more 'stuff' came out of each end, why doen't the field keep > growing larger and larger over time? All you have to think about is this: If both ends are generating outflows, where is the fluid/'stuff' coming from? The iron molecule (which is generating this structured outflows) has to get 'stuff' from somewhere. If the ends are busy, then the sides are the only other place available. A porous short tube is a good mechanical model. The size of the molecule is important. Keep in mind that magnetic fields are only 'felt' by other molecules that are the same size as iron. (Yes, other elements are 'felt' by magnets, but by orders of magnitude smaller.) > > As I seem to recall this other 'interpretation', the flows dont actually > 'repel', but appear to repel because more space is being drawn into the > region between 'sucking inflows'. Becuase the 'current' through the > magnet is a constant (a series circuit if you will) the 'force' is > exactly equal when we compare this condition to the case of two > outflows, again we are drawing more space into the region between the > two opposed poles. > > This predicts a qualitiative difference between N-N repulsion and S-S > repulsion, but not a quantitative difference in the 'force', where the > quality refers to the orientation of the proposed eather flow. Yes, that is why I think that some other model is necessary. > > When uneffected by other nearby flows, the outflow wraps back to the > inflow and we have the closed loop of the magnetic flux. If the outflow is structured like a vortex, then the flow will maintain its shape to live long enough to get back. So, just a 'flow' is not enough. > > I still cannot recall where I first read this theory though, its > maddening! > > I do seem to recall that the twist, or rotation of the flow was external > to the magnet, and accounted for the magnetic 'curl'. This is slightly > different than my > first reccolection that placed the twist inside the body of the magnet. > > Does anyone recognise this theory/model? Who was the original author? My paper of 5 years ago got very limited circulation, but what you describe is very close to what I wrote. If you remember lots of pictures and graphics, then it might have been mine. If not, there are several people who are grasping at anything that looks like a better answer than the establishment view that it is just a 'field'. > > Maybe Jerry D. or Bill B. might have come across something like this > before? > > Is this Rado's work?? Not if you remember "twist, or rotation of the flow". His web site is www.aethro-kinematics.com. He talks about other things that you might be interested in. Norm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 9 22:53:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA06878; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 22:52:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 22:52:02 -0700 Message-ID: <1f4101bdf411$eef818e0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: A magnetic field thought experiment. Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 01:50:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"vtvVx2.0.Nh1.2Ol7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6947 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If we could get a better understanding of magnetism a lot of other things may open up, it sound like a good experiment to me, get back to us with the results. >Connect the coil windins up with two batteries >with one coil lead top to postive battery terminal and bottom lead to >negative terminal of same battery. > >For the second coil reverse the battery connections for the second coil >and battery connection that is top coil lead to negative terminal of >second battery and and bottom lead to positive terminal of second battery.. > >If also variable resistors were also placed in the battery and coil >combinations you would be able to adjust the voltage and current supplied >to both coils. > >The coil then with greater current would it seem be able to produce a >greater magnetic field in a given direction. > >By altering the current and voltage settings we should be able to change >one pole position to north to south and so on. > >Interesting effects may be also be noticed by applying alternating currents >of varing frequences to both coils in both opposition and and or in >combination with one another. > >I know some may say that we can simply change magnetic field poles by >simply using an alternating current but what I saying that a completely >new way at looking >at what is now accepted and who knows we may observe if we tried the >experiement. > >Just a thought >Has anyone actually tried this >Geoff > >Geoff > >http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 >Solaris searching for natures energy sources. > >Geoff Egel >18 Sturt Street >Loxton 5333 >South Australia >Australia > >Phone (08) (8584 5201) >Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time >(Monday - Saturday) >Central Australian time >others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. > >Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 9 23:52:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA19616; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 23:49:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 23:49:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199810100651.CAA26129@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , Subject: Tesla Electric Patent Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:55:49 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qYZby3.0.Lo4.0Em7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6948 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: METHOD OF SECURING MULTIPOLE MAGNETIC INPRINTS Prior Art; In light of Faraday's observation that angular momentum of a magnetised substance rotated upon its axis of polarity seems to impose a spin within a spin to produce an effect of stable field lines. The modern conception of this is contained as the fact of gyromagnetic ratios for differing magnetic substances. State of the art; No manufacturer of magnetic materials has placed specifications concerning increasing or decreasing mmf techniques for employing magnetisation of materials while simultaneously enduring an axial rotation 90 degrees to the magnamotive force or mmf. Patent Claims: By means of magnetising in a DC pulse determined in time by a slip ratio established by having the magnetised part rotating axially to the impressed mmf so that the amount of imprints versas 90 degree revolutions establishes a fraction to establish the least amount of pole movement around the ring to complete its formation. Thus this fraction is always closest to the nearest ratio governed by the size of the part to be magnetised according to this method. Thus in attempting to imprint 60 hz, or 120 dc imprints upon a unmagnetised ferrite cylinder of 1 inch diameter the cylinder could rotate axially 119 times per second and be imprinted 120 times per second to establish 120 multi-poles. However this imprint is also dependent on the whether the geometry and size of the part will readily accept 120 poles next to each other.In actual fact the part to be magnetised by this method should have its ratio determined by its geometry in which the above magnetization technique by ratio might not show any results whatsoever. The actual patent claims consist of the fact of its actual possibility given the correct ratio of size,rpm, and correlated pulsing. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 00:14:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA23093; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 00:13:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 00:13:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199810100715.DAA14796@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: Tesla Electric Patent Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:19:48 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CxaK72.0.le5.Oam7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6949 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The last post was something that could actually be real,but I was being hypothetical. Good thing I keep misspelling the keelynet address, I could be held to account. HDN ---------- > From: Meat Truck > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com; keelynet@dlallastexas.net > Subject: Tesla Electric Patent > Date: Thursday, October 08, 1998 6:55 PM > > METHOD OF SECURING MULTIPOLE MAGNETIC INPRINTS > Prior Art; In light of Faraday's observation that angular momentum of a > magnetised substance rotated upon its axis of polarity seems to impose a > spin within a spin to produce an effect of stable field lines. The modern > conception of this is contained as the fact of gyromagnetic ratios for > differing magnetic substances. > State of the art; No manufacturer of magnetic materials has placed > specifications concerning increasing or decreasing mmf techniques for > employing magnetisation of materials while simultaneously enduring an axial > rotation 90 degrees to the magnamotive force or mmf. > Patent Claims: By means of magnetising in a DC pulse determined in time by > a slip ratio established by having the magnetised part rotating axially to > the impressed mmf so that the amount of imprints versas 90 degree > revolutions establishes a fraction to establish the least amount of pole > movement around the ring to complete its formation. Thus this fraction is > always closest to the nearest ratio governed by the size of the part to be > magnetised according to this method. Thus in attempting to imprint 60 hz, > or 120 dc imprints upon a unmagnetised ferrite cylinder of 1 inch diameter > the cylinder could rotate axially 119 times per second and be imprinted 120 > times per second to establish 120 multi-poles. However this imprint is also > dependent on the whether the geometry and size of the part will readily > accept 120 poles next to each other.In actual fact the part to be > magnetised by this method should have its ratio determined by its geometry > in which the above magnetization technique by ratio might not show any > results whatsoever. The actual patent claims consist of the fact of its > actual possibility given the correct ratio of size,rpm, and correlated > pulsing. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 01:04:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA00088; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 01:03:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 01:03:14 -0700 Message-ID: <1fde01bdf424$42d69100$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: A magnetic field thought experiment. Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 04:01:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"-3HI31.0.H1.1Jn7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6951 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If diamagnetic is similar but opposite to paramagnetic, is there a reverse equivalence to ferromagnetic? If not, why can't there be? Why not something that when placed in a magnetic field and removed retains strong diamagnetism? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 01:04:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA00065; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 01:03:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 01:03:12 -0700 Message-ID: <1fdd01bdf424$42271720$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: A magnetic field thought experiment. Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 03:54:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"9odni1.0.w.0Jn7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6950 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.aethro-kinematics.com/w2_magnX.html I wonder if someone has the tools to make two of these, and see if the repulsive forces are equal, should be able to run smoke through the pipe to trace field lines. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 02:22:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA26161; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 02:20:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 02:20:10 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199810100651.CAA26129@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 22:57:41 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Tesla Electric Patent Resent-Message-ID: <"cQCo_.0.YO6.ARo7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6952 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MT - > Prior Art; In light of Faraday's observation > that angular momentum of a magnetised > substance rotated upon its axis of polarity > seems to impose a spin within a spin to > produce an effect of stable field lines. The > modern conception of this is contained as the > fact of gyromagnetic ratios for differing > magnetic substances. (Off Rick goes to do a web search on "gyromagnetic"...) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 21:32:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA12495 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:32:34 -0700 Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:32:34 -0700 X-Envelope-From: tv@juno.com Thu Oct 8 21:32:31 1998 Received: from x6.boston.juno.com (x6.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.23]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA12450 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:32:31 -0700 Received: (from tv@juno.com) by x6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DQ4E65KZ; Fri, 09 Oct 1998 00:32:35 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Old-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:01:46 -0700 Subject: Re: Leon Dragone/Coil with no magnet Message-ID: <19981008.212613.10054.1.tv@juno.com> References: <199810071909.MAA23670@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6,8-18,20,22-27,29-47 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:09:13 -0700 (PDT) dave dameron writes: >>Hi Jim and all, >>At 06:30 PM 10/6/98 +0800, you wrote: >> Leon Dragone outlines the very simple nature of his electrical >>'heat pump' effect. His system consists of nothing more than a coil, a magnet, >>a power supply, and a switch. He places a permanent magnet within a copper >>coil and energizes the coil so that the external field of the magnet is >>removed/compressed from the space around the magnet, without >>changing the >>The field from the coil seems to cancel the field from the magnet, >>but maybe the energies do not cancel each other but stays in the air? > >I think some of Dragone's work was with coils without magnets as well. In his paper, "The Energetics of Ferromagnetism", Leon Dragone described an experiment in which he seemed to be cyclically robbing a permanent magnet of energy which was restored by fluctuation energy. This was evidenced by excess energy pulses observed on an oscilloscope and a temperature drop in the magnet. I posted the fax of this report on the web at: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4810/dragone1.html Also, Leon Dragone and Dr. P.T. Pappas both told me they also observed cooling effect in these coils without magnets, which leads me to wonder whether the magnet is necessary for this "Electroentropic Effect". see also: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/NewMcool.htm or of this doesnt work just go to: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/ and select Newman pages. Tim >-Dave > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 9 05:50:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA14958 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:50:38 -0700 Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:50:38 -0700 X-Envelope-From: jdo@ucalgary.ca Fri Oct 9 05:50:36 1998 Received: from ds11.acs.ucalgary.ca (root@ds11.acs.ucalgary.ca [136.159.244.11]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA14927 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:50:35 -0700 received: from acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca(136.159.34.205) by ds11.acs.ucalgary.ca via smap (V2.0) id ZZ100575; Fri, 9 Oct 98 06:51:30 -0600 Received: from localhost by acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA174976; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:51:06 -0600 Old-Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:51:06 -0600 (MDT) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" X-Sender: jdo@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fuel cells on Apollo produced water and electricity. In-Reply-To: <361D9B4C.9B@tiac.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: You said:"You can buy a 50 watt fuel cell that is a small cube, not much larger than the long side of a nine volt battery on each side. Power comes from small metal hydride hydrogen generators and atmosphearic oxygen. These new proton membrane transport fuel cells are used commercially to power road side advisory electronic signs in New Jersey during winter months when solar energy is insufficient. ________________________________________________________________________ Where can you buy these fuel cells and how much are they? Any contact names, phone numbers, e-mail addresses or web sites? Jorg Ostrowski From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 08:18:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA27904; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:15:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:15:58 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <3e4e8d4c.361f79cd@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:14:21 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: A magnetic field thought experiment. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"3K5I42.0.vp6.ket7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6953 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 10/9/98 10:54:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, btech@surfsouth.com writes: << >Connect the coil windins up with two batteries >with one coil lead top to postive battery terminal and bottom lead to >negative terminal of same battery. > >For the second coil reverse the battery connections for the second coil >and battery connection that is top coil lead to negative terminal of >second battery and and bottom lead to positive terminal of second battery.. > >If also variable resistors were also placed in the battery and coil >combinations you would be able to adjust the voltage and current supplied >to both coils. > >The coil then with greater current would it seem be able to produce a >greater magnetic field in a given direction. > >By altering the current and voltage settings we should be able to change >one pole position to north to south and so on. > >Interesting effects may be also be noticed by applying alternating currents >of varing frequences to both coils in both opposition and and or in >combination with one another. > >I know some may say that we can simply change magnetic field poles by >simply using an alternating current but what I saying that a completely >new way at looking >at what is now accepted and who knows we may observe if we tried the >experiement. > >Just a thought >Has anyone actually tried this >Geoff >> The issue here seems to be if you have two closely spaced wires carrying currents I1 and I2 in opposite directions, is the field at a distance any different from a single wire with a current I1 -I2. If the superposition theory of conventional theory holds, the answer is no, but the scaler theory advocates would say that more is going on. So anyone experimenting in this area might find it useful to understand the "scaler theory" ( which I admit I do not, incidently). Ken keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 08:36:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA06908; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:34:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:34:55 -0700 Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810101536.IAA27434@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: How magnets work for health Resent-Message-ID: <"bfZfP2.0.lh1.Vwt7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6954 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Woody and all, At 11:29 AM 10/9/98 -0400, you wrote: > Isn't the magnetic field part of the environment rather than a part of the >magnet? To prove it spin a magnet around its axis in a coil and nothing >happens. Spin a coil around a magnet electricity is formed. > > Are you thinking of a configuration like an electromagnet, a solenoid wound over a cylindrical steel core? Current through the coil excites the core as a magnet. The coil is fixed, but the core can rotate inside it about its axis, like the shaft of a motor. I assume the magnetic "lines" from the core rotate with it, instead of being fixed to the coil, but have not come up with a good test to determine it. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 08:38:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA08752; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:37:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:37:03 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <2b7e2077.361f7f56@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:37:58 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: A magnetic field thought experiment. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"fftOO1.0.d82.Uyt7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6955 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 10/10/98 1:06:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, btech@surfsouth.com writes: << If diamagnetic is similar but opposite to paramagnetic, is there a reverse equivalence to ferromagnetic? If not, why can't there be? Why not something that when placed in a magnetic field and removed retains strong diamagnetism? >> An interesting question, but I am having problems understanding how this might work. With a ferromagnetic material, an external applied field causes domains to align and add to the field so when the external field is removed the domain-created field remains. With a diamagnetic material the external field causes an internal field which is in the opposite direction from the applied field. Now lets say that effect is permanent, so when you remove the external field the internal field remains. It seems (?) you would just end up with a permanent magnet the opposite polarity of what you would have had with a ferromagnetic material. If that is what would happen (or happens) might the effect be useful? To me it seems it possibly could be. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 13:28:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA11116; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 13:27:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 13:27:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981010032211.00a224f0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 03:22:11 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: tinfoil and stryofoam Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"8tl6.0.cj2.iCy7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6956 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >From another forum. Any interest in this conversation? Sorry I am so dilatory in responding to messages. We don't seem to be getting any customers. Dave's last message had this comment: >In a Rex Research infolio I read about an eleventh grader who had done TT >Brown>type experiments as a science project in 1986. He charged aluminum foil >around styrofoam to 200KV, and always got an upward thrust, not matter the >polarity on the aluminum. > I recently found him on the internet. Here is a recent exchange. > I think he may have been absorbing electrons from the inductive flows of >the attractive force. >Dave: > >I'll be the first to admit that ionic wind, while not entirely the >cause, could be attributed to a little bit of the force with Brown. With >200,000 V, there is guaranteed to be some ionization of the air. What >totally convinced me otherwise was the uni-directional nature of the >force that I later observed. The apparent weight loss was always >negative, implying the force was always reacting "against" the earth. >This motion was always in this same direction, regardless of what plate >polarity was aligned with the earth. > >Have you read up at all on JRR Searl? He has a website but the details >are kind of sketchy. He's also offering his research notes for sale, >although I'm not sure what value they would be, considering that none >of his "flying discs" are in-fact "flying". Although they would give an >insight into some of the concepts that are involved. > >Doyle I suspect what is happening here is that the moving charge is field replacing the atoms of the foil which depart the scene. With a deficit in the foil (much like a filament in a light bulb continuously produces a deficit that converts the flow of electricity into a frequency emission), electrons are pulled out of the orbiting shells of the atoms that make up the air, ionizing it. These molecules in turn pull electrons out of the inductive flows of the Earth's emission field, lessening the force of gravity and thus creating less weight in the atoms that make up the foil. Then, Dave's effect takes over where the weight of the air pushes the foil and foam up. Peter TO UNSUBSCRIBE, SEND A MESSAGE TO PUT IN THE BODY OF THE MESSAGE UNSUBSCRIBE: nature-of-gravity TO POST MESSAGES, SEND MESSAGE TO nature-of-gravity@bbs.tmug.org FOR PROBLEMS, SEND MESSAGE TO gravprob@tmug.org From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 14:04:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA21144; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 14:01:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 14:01:30 -0700 From: UNIR2B1@aol.com Message-ID: <81cf5870.361fcb52@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:02:10 EDT To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY NOW FORMING... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"nvTTc1.0.DA5.fiy7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6957 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Attn: Professional/avocational scientists, free energy questors seeking to immigrate from population centers-- PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY NOW FORMING... ...on 40 wooded acres between two rural, dead-end roads. Geographically, this area of the southeastern US is a 'safe zone' according to various "future maps" that juxtapose prophecy with tectonic, topological and geomagnetic data. Situated at the southern end of Lookout Mt., this land overlies a high water table; the level of our well remained constant even through a recent, protracted dry spell. This acreage is also a jumping-off point to a vast wilderness (deer and other wildlife roam the vicinity). Should the need arise to "take to the hills," the original Appalachian Trail fortuitously begins right behind our property! Additionally, this area is a spelunker's Mecca, and some of us are currently scouting to provision a nearby cave. We are predicating our "intentional community" on faith that is rational, optimism that is realistic. We're seeking partners diverse in their views and backgrounds, but like-minded in their dedication to personal and collective progress. Leaving fanatics and dogmatists to the confines of their cults, we are focusing on human evolution. Beginning with exigent concerns like establishing survival stores, we hope to quickly deploy exciting and tenable long-term solutions to all forms of dependency. Initial plans include water enhancement techniques, spirulina cultivation, composting & vermiculture, hydroponics, and alternative energy (we expect to generate novel contributions to most of these arts). Beyond these projects, however, we are evaluating innovative methods of converting various energy forms *directly* into human and plant vitality, and pursuing loftier concerns like interdimensional "consciousness expansion" (of which we have gained some definitive and rather exclusive knowledge). Although self-sufficiency and isolation from marauders are essential for surviving a worst-case millennium transition, we are emphasizing preparedness against a *particular* ramification of societal collapse: dissociation from fellow minds. Travel restrictions, telecommunication disruption, etc. will threaten, above all, the ability of the forward-looking people to brainstorm and collaborate. We regard the right mix of people not only as the greatest survival resource, but also the most essential ingredient for abundant and meaningful living. Therefore, we envision a microcosm wherein civilization itself could progress even in seclusion. Such an assemblage requires people of conscience and learning; self-governing and communicative, with an aptitude for creative and interactive thinking. Although the most cutting-edge discoveries are now pointing toward natural, low-tech means of tapping subtler energies, lab equipment is also needed for apprehending and verifying those discoveries. This is not a solicitation to join a regimented community, but an opportunity to create an enterprise--a haven for intellectual and spiritual freedom and productivity. Ayn Rand wrote: "Don't say, 'Life isn't like that;' ask yourself whose." We see the current human predicament not merely as a signal to retreat to hoarding, but as a call to advance beyond the need of it. If privation is mankind's looming threat, let's fight it by discovering, utilizing, refining and promulgating new keys to plenitude. ...But time is short for organizing a fully proactive response; so if these aspirations resonate with your own, please don't delay in contacting us. Sincerely, Russ Rosser UNIR2B1@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 17:31:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA00269; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:30:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:30:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981011100125.00883ab0@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 10:01:25 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re: Vande Graf construction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"rsvme2.0.04.Wm_7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6958 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 02:45 PM 10/7/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hi ALL Just a short message to say I have just updated my Van De Graaf construction project web page. I have included new photos and new construction worth a look if you want to put some spark back into your life. it can be found at geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/vande.htm Geoff Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 18:37:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA16217; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 18:35:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 18:35:23 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19981011013713.006fe9ec@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 21:37:13 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: How magnets work for health Resent-Message-ID: <"7Y1wA2.0.Jz3.Qj08s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6959 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:54 PM 10/9/98 -0700, you wrote: >wood wrote: >> >> At 09:01 PM 10/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >> >If more and more 'stuff' came out of each end, why doen't the field keep >> >growing larger and larger over time? >> > >> >> Isn't the magnetic field part of the environment rather than a part of the >> magnet? To prove it spin a magnet around its axis in a coil and nothing >> happens. Spin a coil around a magnet electricity is formed. >> >> Woody > >Really? > >What about the N machines and Farady's generator? > > I don't think they work on the principle of lines of force cutting through a coil. They pick up electrons from a spinning magnet in a different way Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 20:21:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA06430; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:20:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:20:11 -0700 Message-ID: <36202484.5E7C@keelynet.com> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 22:22:44 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Tapping the Casimir force Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-OyYh.0.Ma1.gF28s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6960 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Folks! I found this amusing post and thought it worth sharing with some additional information. It deals with the zero point 'pressure' which is everywhere present and which can apparently do physical work by pushing two plates together. Of course, these plates stay pushed together but please read the following, then continue for some notes on Win Lambertsons' WIN CELLS; ================= Email: rangrrik@gte.net Date: 1998/09/20 Forums: alt.energy.over-unity, sci.energy, sci.skeptic Ian Goddard wrote: > > The Casimir experiment [1] showed that the zero-point > energy of empty space can exert a force on plates that > pushes them together. Based on this effect, it has been > proposed that energy might be extracted from empty space. > [2] However, the following, quoted from a website about > free energy [3], points out a simple reason why a ZPE > device should be just another free-energy fallacy: > > The catch to any zero point energy device is > that quantum electrodynamics is a conservative > force; therefore, it matters not how the plates > come together. It'll take the same amount of > energy to pull them apart and return them to > their starting position as it took for them > to move together. [so it produces no energy] > > How is that not totally obvious to everyone? What have those > promoting ZPE as an energy source come up with to solve this? Rubber bands? ================= Another Casimir URL; http://www.phys.uni.torun.pl/~jkob/physnews96/node9.html On the Vacuum Energy; http://www.pcss.maps.susx.ac.uk/users/markh/RQF1/node34.html#SECTION00053000000000000000 The most recent experiment by Lamoreaux; http://www.pcss.maps.susx.ac.uk/users/markh/RQF1/node36.html#SECTION00055000000000000000 Darrell Moffitts article originally posted directly to the KeelyNet BBS and lifted by the vampire site Sumeria; http://www.livelinks.com/sumeria/phys/cpedog.html ================== I had the privilege to meet Win Lambertson about 4 years ago and attend his workshop. This was when he was working on getting a patent for his WIN cells and I'm not sure one was ever issued. At the workshop, Win reported on his early experiments with this Casimir force where he placed two plates together in close proximity and developed a means to convert the mechanical pressure to electrical energy and to restore the plates to their original position, in a word, re-cocking it mechanically so they could again be pushed together. Win said in those early days he used banks of 100 Watt tungsten filament bulbs which often blew out. Examination of the tungsten filaments show they were blow apart, like a fuse subjected to a momentary burst of high voltage. He said he was able to extract electrical energy from his cells for nearly constant power but the lamps would randomly blow out. He attributes these failures to changes in the zpe pressure which cause high voltage spikes. He realized he could use sodium or gas vapor lamps that could easily absorb these high voltage spikes and simply convert any excessive spikes into more light. Much like using a lamp as a ballast in an oscillator. There are pictures of his Win Cells (many of these put together into a cylinder to add the power from each) powering 5 sodium lamps. So, I heard what I considered to be another confirmation that the aether/zpe does move in waves which we can think of as higher pressure or higher energy followed eventually by the normal pressures. This means any device or circuit which was intended to tap zpe/aether flows would need to have a 'pilot circuit' to serve as a voltage/current regulator when it detected an intensification of the incoming power. Kind of like an AVR (automatic voltage regulator). This would protect whatever load was placed on the device by quenching any spikes or pulling up any sags. At Win's workshop, he passed around a few of these single cells and you could clearly see what appeared to be an RTV/silicon caulk like compound between two thin ceramic plates. My thinking at the time was this WAS THE RUBBER BAND the guy jokes about above. In a question to Win, I theorized at the workshop that he had quartz or other crystals embedded in the silicone caulk which would be subject to the slapping of the plates against each other from the pressure of the zpe/aether waves. Win said 'well we won't talk about that as I am working on my patent.'..... I might have been offbase but it would explain the conversion of mechanical force to electricity by piezoelectric action and the rubbery silicone caulk would be the RESTORATIVE mechanical action to 're-cock' the plates for another mechanical compression from the Casimir effect. The cell would serve as a rectifier/check valve/diode which is one way (pun intended) to tap into this force as Henry Moray was supposed to have done with his 'swedish stone' based Moray Valve. Many of these 'cells' are stacked together into columns all connected together electrically. Because it is piezoelectric (in my opinion), the energy should be high voltage, which would drive a sodium (ionized plasma) tube, indicating these single cells should be connected in series. The rubbery silicone caulk, thinly applied so that the plates would be kept apart the requisite Casimir distance, would compress under the mechanical zpe/aether pressure, slap the quartz crystals which would produce piezoelectricity, then the plates would be pushed back to their original position by the rubbery caulk, ready to be slapped together again. This would be a linear analogue to the rotary paddlewheel idea of tapping into flowing energies that result from differences in potential. It strikes me that DC is the brute force method of energy extraction from AC with this linear method while AC is extracted by resonant tapping as with the paddlewheel method. Interesting how this ties in with the report of the Tesla electric car where he used several vacuum tubes in his electrical box that sat on the seat of the vehicle. Here are two relevant Tesla files; http://www.keelynet.com/energy/teslafe1.htm http://www.keelynet.com/energy/teslafe2.htm The cells/tubes could be hooked in parallel to increase the current or in series to increase the voltage. Perhaps the ceramic disks used by Lambertson are piezoelectric unto themselves, that is by their very composition. Like the two chocolate pieces of an Oreo cookie with the rubbery silicone as the cream filling. This is a distinct possibility as an alternative to the idea of ground up quartz crystals suspended in the silicone caulk. I would think construction of such a cell (with the ground up crystals) would require that the crystals be oriented perpendicular to the faces of the ceramic plates, to get the greatest amount of mechanical compression for the most electricity. If the ceramic plate composition is the key, then just slapping them together would produce the piezoelectric energy. When examining the cells Win graciously passed around, I saw only the two ceramic disks, the silicone caulk and no metal. I think there was a wire attached to each ceramic piece like a solar cell, but I don't recall now. I don't hear or see any work or reports by anyone other than Win for this intriguing mechanical energy extraction using the Casimir force and if Win can do it in his workshop, surely a crude version could be produced just to produce enough to fulfill Puthoffs 'One Watt Challenge'. -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 20:59:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA13618; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:56:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:56:25 -0700 Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:57:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810110357.UAA21683@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: A magnetic field thought experiment. Resent-Message-ID: <"AG6nb.0.hK3.fn28s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6961 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bill and all, At 04:01 AM 10/10/98 -0400, you wrote: >If diamagnetic is similar but opposite to paramagnetic, is there a reverse >equivalence to ferromagnetic? If not, why can't there be? Why not >something that when placed in a magnetic field and removed retains strong >diamagnetism? > A permanent magnet may already be doing this, sort of. That is, there is a B field which is the opposite direction of the H field. Think of an unmagnetized steel ring (to make the path lengths simple) with a gap. A toroidal coil is wound on it and is used to magnetize it, then the current is turned off. If there is some permanent magnetism remaining, there is a field in the gap, both H and B fields the same direction (relative permeability of tha gap = +1). The B field is continuous across the gap, so it continues in the ring the same direction. By Ampere's law, the net current enclosed is now zero, so the sum of the H fields around the gap and ring is zero. Thus the H field in the ring is the opposite direction of the B field and H(gap)*width(gap) =-H(ring)*(path length of the ring). That is unless the path enclosed some net atomic circulating currents, then the total H*path would not be zero??? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 01:15:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA18028; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 01:14:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 01:14:01 -0700 Message-Id: <199810110815.EAA22440@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , Subject: Re: Error of my ways; answer Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:54:42 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KDljI3.0.XP4.8Z68s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6962 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I recently made a post which described stimulating florescent bulbs with high voltage electric fields generated form a series resonance and then postulating that placing these bulbs at right angles to the magnetic fields involved in the same series resonance might obtain an output at the end of the bulbs. The problem with the construction lies in the fact that although the electric and magnetic fields are at right angles, The direction of the intended output was not in a direction that was perpendicular to BOTH the magnetic AND electric fields. As one can see from the post the bulbs are inserted parallel to the magnetic field thus one should not expect an output. This was what I was trying to show as the error of my thinking. I actually spent the time to test this and didnt realize until I finished that the design was based on faulty thinking. > > I constructed a hubbard like assembly of florescent light bulbs in > which aluminum foil wrapped around the central bulb served as one plate for > a cylindrical electric field. Around this assembly were surrounded more > bulbs and then another shell of aluminum foil which served as the outer > connection. It is relatively easy to light these bulbs through higher > voltage/high freq. with those electrical connections straight on the glass > instead of the end connections. > This whole assembly then went inside the air core coils that contained > the process of resonance that enabled the bulbs to light in the first > place. It was my hope that I could take the the electric and magnetic > fields in resonance and place them at right angles which I had done to a > partial degree in this model. I was then hoping to have the first > demonstration of my idea; that of a flux capacitor. I wanted to be able to > extract energy not from either the magnetic or electric directly, but from > their interaction. Too me it seemed plausible that I could obtain this > output directly from the end connections of the bulbs. What a wonderful > idea, light the bulbs and obtain an output at the same time! Even today I > had forgot the error of my ways and once again wondered why this scenario > wouldnt work. It wasnt until I made this post that I remembered,so I wont > be surprized if it might confuse more folks down the line. Do you see why > it doesnt work? Sincerely Harvey D. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net > ---------- > PS; the answer to the question shows that such a light could still work. > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > To leave this list, email > with the body text: leave keelynet > WWW based join and leave forms and KeelyNet list archives > are at http://dallastexas.net/keelynet/ > ------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 04:38:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA10875; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 04:37:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 04:37:50 -0700 Message-ID: <003d01bdf50b$99ef8ae0$fe4b4a0c@dialup.csn.net> From: "Chris Malcheski" To: Subject: Re: PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY NOW FORMING... Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 05:37:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"FtBRM3.0.rf2.EY98s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6963 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Russ, I've contemplated this type of idea myself over the years, but decided against it. The reason is one of basic human nature. Any time you get a group of people together - even the simplest business partnership - that group begins to create a heirarchy of power and authority that rapidly overshadows their reason for joining together in the first place. A power structure begins to form the minute a group is established; you get the shepherds who become tyrants, the followers who become whimpy sheep, and everybody very rapidly loses their focus on why they got together in the first place. Power and control become the one and only focus within a matter of hours. It's human nature and barring some evolutionary jump with respect to the human ego, it will never change under any circumstances. The pending world crises are not going to be enough to curtail this trait in people. It's sometimes very difficult to consider this aspect of joining together with others. The lure of knowing the potential of such a group is very enticing. But in actual practice, people are people and they don't know any other way to function. They either seek shelter or control - or both - at the expense of the group. We don't usually factor this into our predictions of what could be possible. Personally I'm all for communicating and cooperating, and I'd be more than happy to help out these efforts any way I can. But having a group "tied together" in any ongoing way is suicidal. I don't consider myself as cynical on this matter, since whatever goal you had in mind is not being diminished. I'm only negating the mechanics of how you reach it as far as this particular method. Any goal is achievable. It's only a matter of certain methods being a guaranteed failure. There are always other methods to consider. This is only my personal opinion, for whatever it's worth. :) -- Chris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 05:05:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA15536; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 05:00:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 05:00:50 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981011120931.00db0ef8@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:09:31 -0400 To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Perpetual Motion runs the universe Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"xwpP2.0.Xo3.nt98s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6964 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi; I really want to imprint a single layer Searl plate and roller as a sculpture some day. It would sit there, spinning and rotating, with no wires, battery or or kicker coil. I think it would save alot of time in these situations. Dennis At 10:51 PM 10/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Folks! > >Here is an example of the ceaseless arguing about the impossibility and >non-existence of perpetual motion and/or free energy. Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 05:31:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA20074; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 05:30:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 05:30:24 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981011123717.00db805c@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:37:17 -0400 To: Henry Curtis From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Corbino Effect? Cc: Alan.CHEAH@adecco.com, alex@frolov.spb.ru, Eric Howlett , freenrg-l@eskimo.com, gjcheah@guybutler.com, wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu, hic@world.std.com, jkokor@alum.mit.edu, discjt@servtech.com, jsearl@tako.demon.co.uk, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, lstelmac@lynx.neu.edu, 71650.60@CompuServe.COM, rsmith@itiip.com, 73577.123@CompuServe.COM, tcapizzi@world.std.com, tom.duff@poweroasis.com, TAFAUL@aol.com, vortex-L@eskimo.com, Nick Edgington Resent-Message-ID: <"B4yyP3.0.Yv4.UJA8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6965 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi; I have my Dad's January 1965 Glossary of Electronic Properties by Emil Schafer EPIC Report No. S-7. Under Hall Coefficient: The Corbino effect is a special case of the Hall effect which occurs when a disc carrying a radial current is placed in a magnetic field which is perpendicular to the plane of the disc. I did a web search but I could only find that, while the Hall effect is resistive in nature, the Corbino effect is a conductance phenomenon. Any comments are welcome. I don't think that people who ask questions are ignorant. Dennis At 01:35 AM 10/11/98 -0600, you wrote: >Please forgive my ignorance, but what is the Corbino effect? Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 09:20:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA08323; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 09:18:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 09:18:50 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981011162729.00db6b64@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_908137649==_" Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 12:27:29 -0400 To: "Meat Truck" , , From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Error of my ways; answer X-Attachments: F:\Caduplas\Caduplas.gif; Resent-Message-ID: <"lSmHp.0.z12.gfD8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6966 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_908137649==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi; Here's a quote and bitmap (attached: caduplas.gif) from Moray B. King's "Tapping The Zero Point Energy" that I thought you might find interesting. > 134 Moray B. King > >Subject the ion-acoustic oscillation of a plasma tube to pulsed, >electromagnetic opposition by inserting >the tube into the core of a caduceus coil (Figure 9 - caduplas.gif)). A variable >oscillator producing a triangular waveform can be used to trigger >the ion-acoustic mode in the tube .43,41 Coupling the tube's >leads directly across the caduceus coil will allow the natural >spiking from the ion-acoustic resonance to be the pulsed >excitation on the coil itself. A synergistic feedback may be >triggered in which the orthorotated ZPE flux couples to the ion-acoustic oscillations further energizing the spiking on the coil. >This would yield an increasing macroscopic vacuum polarization as >well as gravitational, energy, and time anomalies. A dramatic >change in weight of the apparatus would then conclusively >demonstrate a zero-point energy coherence. Regards; Dennis At 07:54 AM 10/9/98 -0500, Meat Truck wrote: >I recently made a post which described stimulating florescent bulbs with >high voltage electric fields generated form a series resonance and then >postulating that placing these bulbs at right angles to the magnetic fields >involved in the same series resonance might obtain an output at the end of >the bulbs. The problem with the construction lies in the fact that although >the electric and magnetic fields are at right angles, The direction of the >intended output was not in a direction that was perpendicular to BOTH the >magnetic AND electric fields. As one can see from the post the bulbs are >inserted parallel to the magnetic field thus one should not expect an >output. This was what I was trying to show as the error of my thinking. I >actually spent the time to test this and didnt realize until I finished >that the design was based on faulty thinking. --=====================_908137649==_ Content-Type: image/gif; name="Caduplas.gif"; x-mac-type="47494666"; x-mac-creator="4A565752" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Caduplas.gif" R0lGODdhLAL8AYMAAAAAABERESIiIjMzM0RERFVVVWZmZnd3d4iIiJmZmaqqqru7u8zMzN3d3e7u 7v///ywAAAAALAL8AQME/vDJSau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oqq5s675wLM90bd94ru987//AoHBILBqP yKRyyWw6n9CodEqtWq/YrHbL7Xq/4LB4TC6bz+i0es1uu9/wuHxOr9vv+Lx+z+/7/4CBgoOEhYaH iImKi4yNjo+QkZKTlJWWl5iZmpucnZ6foKGio6SlpqeoqaqrrK2ur7CxsrO0tba3uLmDALy9vr/A wcLDxMUavDLIust0xc7P0NHS09TV1tMSzhbEFNcA2cPMoN7k5ebn6Onq6+zt7u/px9+n8PX29/j5 +vv8/f7/53j4AqMMoMGDCBMqXMjQm46B4lAoAzHxAcRtDTNq3AjwYa+I/SCHcLPI8Z7HiiFTjgJ2 cp7Kl6Eu5pAJs+Ymmjdw2txZSWcNnzyDPgI6g6jQo4mMxlCKtOmujzuYOp3qR6oLq1Sz4sHKgqvW r3K8qhALtiwbshKhml2bB+0Jt2zjhoFbgq7cu1vsjtCLt28VviEA+x38RPAHw4QTJ0HcgbHixyLV 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freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 10:13:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA24887; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 10:12:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 10:12:02 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19981011171409.0069e5f4@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 13:14:09 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: magnets Resent-Message-ID: <"eW2i83.0.m46.XRE8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6967 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:36 AM 10/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Woody and all, >At 11:29 AM 10/9/98 -0400, you wrote: > >> Isn't the magnetic field part of the environment rather than a part of the >>magnet? To prove it spin a magnet around its axis in a coil and nothing >>happens. Spin a coil around a magnet electricity is formed. >> >> >Are you thinking of a configuration like an electromagnet, a solenoid wound >over a cylindrical steel core? Current through the coil excites the core as >a magnet. >The coil is fixed, but the core can rotate inside it about its axis, like >the shaft of a motor. I assume the magnetic "lines" from the core rotate >with it, instead of being fixed to the coil, but have not come up with a >good test to determine it. >-Dave > > If the coil core is a magnet with the north being at one end of the coil and south the other by rotating the core you will not get and electric current. The lines of force are not part of the magnet but an interuption in space. These lines do not move. Make a coil with a magnet coil and spin the magnet. If running perfectly true you will not get an electron flow. If you build a rotating coil using slip rings to get the power out the rotating coil will produce the electron flow as it is cutting across these lines. reference source THE MANUAL OF FREE ENERGY DEVICES AND SYSTEMS VOL111 pg. 64 Quote The lines of force are a property of space itself,not attached to the magnet which serves to induce the field. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 11:34:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA15776; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 11:33:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 11:33:16 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981011013415.00a18da0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 01:34:15 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"iswT03.0.Ls3.hdF8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6968 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry folks. I just couldn't resist making another pitch that gravity is not a property of mass. The Ancient Engineers, L. Sprague de Camp, Ballantine Books, 1974, page 140. The author in a discussion about the Colossus of Rhodes, built by Chares, mentions a tale by Sextus Empiricus in the 2nd Century of the Common era. Sextus Empiricus said that the Colossus was originally planned to be half its eventual height. When the city decided to double its height, Chares asked only twice the original fee, forgetting that the material would be increased eightfold. This error drove him to bankruptcy and suicide. "It seems however, incredible that a man with the engineering skill that Chares must have had should not have known the SQUARE CUBE LAW. This law states that, if you increase the dimensions of an object while keeping its shape the same, the area increases as the square of the dimensions while the mass and volume increase as the cube. That is why no flying animal has exceeded about 30 lbs in weight." Enter the problem of the pterodactyl. The pterodactyl weighed, from available evidence, 50 -110 lbs. It was first theorized that the creature could only soar and had to climb up on cliffs to launch itself. However paleontologists have discovered the fossilized footprints of pterodatyls that apparently have taken off from ground level. Frederic B. Jueneman, a Chemist with Stanford Ames, contributes regularly to R&D Magazine, and AEON, he has also authored a book, Raptures of the Deep (and in fact it was he who brought to my attention that we live in a Nitrogen fogged atmosphere that is 78% Nitrogen and obviously suffer from nitrogen narcosis or Raptures of the Deep). In AEON, however he mentions that the pterodactyl had wingspans of 12-15 meters (40-50 feet), comparable to todays small aircraft ranging from 50 - 110 lbs). "Around 1985 two Canadians, paleobiologist Dale Russell of the National Museum of Natural History and aeronautics engineer Parvez Kumar, using computer simulations determined that these creatures could indeed fly by flapping its ungainly bat like membranous wings in an atmosphere at least 50% more dense than what we presently experience on Earth". This throws a monkey wrench into somebody's gear box and I suggest that it throws a monkey wrench into the gearbox of conventional (Newtonian Physics) that holds that gravity is a property of mass. Atmospheric pressure is a result of two things, either the molecular composition of the atmosphere or the gravitational force of the planet or both. For instance Venus has an atmosphere almost 90 times that of Earth (92 bars versus Earths' 1.02 bars), yet it's gravity is only .90 that of Earths. The reason why the Venutian atmosphere is so heavy is because it is 92% carbon dioxide which is heavier than the Earth's nitrogen-oxygen mix. For the Mezozoic Earth to have an atmosphere 50% greater than today's, it either had to have had a heavier chemical constituency (carbon dioxide) or a greater gravity. The present Terran atmospheric pressure is caused by the gravitational forces exerted on the molecular consituents which pull the molecules of air to its surface. (Which raises another issue of why we have weather, with atmospheric highs and lows traveling from West to East, as the Earth rotates from East to West). Enter the dinosaur, those monsters of great bone mass and size. One thing we know is that as gravitational forces diminish, so does the stress load on bones. And a reduction in stress leads to a reduction in bone mass. As stated previously, we have discovered this in our ongoing trips into orbit aboard the space shuttles, and the astronauts have to exercise to place stress on the bones and retain their bone mass. And of course, dentists know this because when we lose teeth we lose bone mass in the jaw. (Could also be a cause of osteoporosis, as when we get older we exercise less and become more sedentiary). The corollary of a reduction in stress as a result of a reduction in gravity leading to a reduction in bone mass is true. An increase in stress as a result of an increase in gravity leads to an increase in bone mass. Hence, the massive size of the Dinosaurs and Sauropods, and of course an increased gravitational field will increase the density of the atmosphere and enanble the pteordactyl to flap its wings and fly. So what could have caused the reduction in the atmospheric pressure that led to the extinction of the dinosaur and pterodactyl? A dampening of the Earth's gravitational field. What would dampen the Earth's gravitational field? A sudden influx of cooling water. Where would such an influx of water come from? The moon and Mars - both of which have water at their poles, and obviously at one time had much more water on their surface. The geologist astronaut Harrison Schmidt, Apollo 17, reported what he surmised to be water marks on the rim of the "crater" (dry lake?) in which he stood. There is certainly water at it's poles now, verified by Lunar Explorer. And there is no question of water on Mars at its poles. So how would the moon and Mars lose its water? The gravitational force of these celestial objects diminished such that they could no longer hold to their surface the atmosphere. We know that at above 50,000 feet blood and water "boils", for that reason pilots and astronauts must wear pressure suits. The gravitational pull of the Earth at the orbit level of the Space Shuttles (about 118 miles) is only .94 that of Earth and thus an object in orbit that weighs 100 Earth lbs, only weighs 94 Earth lbs. (So much for weightlessness). If the gravitational pull of Earth was diminished by 20% (or less) I suggest that the atmosphere would slowly drift off into space, more than likely starting at the Equator (due to the centrifugal force of the Earth - it rotates at 1030 mph at the Equator), and with a decreased atmospheric pressure the water would boil off, like it does at 50,000 ft. Clouds of ice crystals, being slowly attracted to Earth from Mars and the moon would be sufficient to filter out the radiation of the sun for hundreds of thousands of years (in the case of Mars) and tens of thousands of years (in the case of the moon) and provide a mechanism by which the Earth would experience two ice ages. Otherwise there is no mechanism for the ice ages which geologists so much believe in, especially ones that last for hundreds of thousands of years. Is there evidence that the Earth once had a greater gravitational field than it does now? Yes. All one has to do is look at the dinosaur, sauropod and the pterodactyl. Implication: That Newton's three hundred year old Universal Law that gravity is a property of mass is as wrong headed as can be. That gravity is a current force, produced by a physical process is more likely. Especially when one considers the phenomenon of changing and constantly moving atmospheric pressure. After considering all options as to why atmospheric pressure changes over regions, the only thing that really makes sense, is that the gravitational field within the Earth has regions of increased gravity, and is constantly moving counter to the Earth's rotation. Any other explanation requires a containment vessel to hold in either increased pressure produced by heat from the sun's radiation or the inflow of increased molecules of air. That we experience atmospheric highs, even during winter, negates the hypotheses that atmospheric pressure is increased by heating of the air due to radiation from the sun. Still in all we would need a containment vessel to account for such increased atmopsheric pressure. More serious implication: That as the Earth itself goes through the Cooling Continuum, and cools from the outside in, the gravitational force of the Earth will itself diminish and with it all life on Earth. Ridiculous: Ask yourself seriously what happened to the water that was once on Mars and the moon? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 13:53:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA16676; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 13:52:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 13:52:03 -0700 Message-ID: <3621363B.160F@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:50:35 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: another 'scope] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1A04401592F" Resent-Message-ID: <"nRwIx3.0.U44.ofH8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6969 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1A04401592F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All: Steve Heckman wanted me to post this for all interested. Kyle R. Mcallister --------------1A04401592F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from m18.boston.juno.com (m18.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.191]) by fh101.infi.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA31751 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:29:07 -0400 (EDT) From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com Received: (from steve-nyeoka@juno.com) by m18.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DQFAKEQE; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:27:52 EDT To: stk@sunherald.infi.net Subject: another 'scope Message-ID: <19980930.192810.7183.0.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-11 Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:27:52 EDT Kyle, I just picked up at Radio Shack their "Scope Probe" for $29.00. The sales clerk said there were a closeout due to low sales. Origional price was $100. They come with a serial cable and software so any PC with EGA graphics or better can use it. Would be good for data logging. Go ahead and post to the list for me, as they may sell out quickly. Steve ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] --------------1A04401592F-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 15:02:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA03702; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:01:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:01:23 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981011020922.00a1daf0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 02:09:22 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY NOW FORMING... In-Reply-To: <003d01bdf50b$99ef8ae0$fe4b4a0c@dialup.csn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"UwqSY.0.lv.ogI8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6970 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Chris: You should post this on such stuff as New Civilization Network, or the communalist or neo Marxist rings that are forming out there. People have the infinite capacity to never learn from past mistakes and the Utopian hope lingers so deep in so many people, that they believe that they can fantasize their own feelings and beliefs into some mass reality. Lee At 05:37 AM 10/11/98 -0600, you wrote: >Hi Russ, > >I've contemplated this type of idea myself over the years, but decided >against it. The reason is one of basic human nature. Any time you get a >group of people together - even the simplest business partnership - that >group begins to create a heirarchy of power and authority that rapidly >overshadows their reason for joining together in the first place. A power >structure begins to form the minute a group is established; you get the >shepherds who become tyrants, the followers who become whimpy sheep, and >everybody very rapidly loses their focus on why they got together in the >first place. Power and control become the one and only focus within a >matter of hours. It's human nature and barring some evolutionary jump with >respect to the human ego, it will never change under any circumstances. The >pending world crises are not going to be enough to curtail this trait in >people. > >It's sometimes very difficult to consider this aspect of joining together >with others. The lure of knowing the potential of such a group is very >enticing. But in actual practice, people are people and they don't know any >other way to function. They either seek shelter or control - or both - at >the expense of the group. We don't usually factor this into our predictions >of what could be possible. > >Personally I'm all for communicating and cooperating, and I'd be more than >happy to help out these efforts any way I can. But having a group "tied >together" in any ongoing way is suicidal. I don't consider myself as >cynical on this matter, since whatever goal you had in mind is not being >diminished. I'm only negating the mechanics of how you reach it as far as >this particular method. Any goal is achievable. It's only a matter of >certain methods being a guaranteed failure. There are always other methods >to consider. > >This is only my personal opinion, for whatever it's worth. :) > >-- Chris > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 15:06:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA04827; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:03:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:03:28 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981011013415.00a18da0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 12:02:15 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs Resent-Message-ID: <"4VXk42.0.AB1.liI8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6971 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee - > (Which raises another issue of why we have > weather, with atmospheric highs and lows > traveling from West to East, as the Earth > rotates from East to West). Rotates which way? Oh nevermind, you're probably right about that too. Just another scientific dogma we should have challenged a long time ago had any of us been paying attention. I'll just dig up the patio and rebuild it on the east side of the house so I can watch the sunset. :) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 15:25:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA10072; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:19:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:19:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981011052259.00a262b0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 05:22:59 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19981011013415.00a18da0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"X1x8B3.0.DT2.jxI8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6972 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:02 PM 10/11/98 -1000, you wrote: >Lee - > > > (Which raises another issue of why we have > > weather, with atmospheric highs and lows > > traveling from West to East, as the Earth > > rotates from East to West). > >Rotates which way? Oh nevermind, you're probably right about that too. Just >another scientific dogma we should have challenged a long time ago had any >of us been paying attention. I'll just dig up the patio and rebuild it on >the east side of the house so I can watch the sunset. :) > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI It depends on one's frame of reference I guess. Perhaps it would be better to say that from the Northpole, the Earth rotates counterclockwise? I can trip overmyself though Done it before will do it again. After all I am a moron and never forget that. Lee :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 12 01:37:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA32475; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 01:32:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 01:32:59 -0700 Message-ID: <003701bdf5b2$765e0960$9ef082c1@pre-installedco> Reply-To: "Duncan PURVIS" From: "Duncan PURVIS" To: Subject: Re: The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:31:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"y8Cx7.0.Lx7.xwR8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6973 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee Surely the presence of dinosaurs and pterodactyls are evidence of the opposite, ie lower gravitational field. They, with their massive bones, could not have supported their own weight in todays gravitational field nor even pump blood to their brains in the case of the brontosaurus and the like. The largest self-supporting land mammal possible today would be 15-20 tons, an agile one would be 8-12 tons (elephant). There is a rule to support this, which I have forgotten, but could refind if necessary. Really enjoy your posts, keep it up. duncan -----Original Message----- From: Lee Markland To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: 11 October 1998 19:36 Subject: The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs >Is there evidence that the Earth once had a greater gravitational field >than it does now? Yes. All one has to do is look at the dinosaur, >sauropod and the pterodactyl. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 12 08:31:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA31299; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:06:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:06:17 -0700 Message-ID: <001601bdf6ba$1522e400$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: [OT] The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:48:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"6IXD12.0.ce7.LhX8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6974 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee, Duncan and All I would like to point out that the majority of dinosaurs were small (below 100Kg). It is easier to find fossils of large dinosaurs and they look much more impressive. The much vaunted Velocoraptor was actually turkey sized. The apparent design of known dinosaur bones seem to point to there being a gravitational force similar to today's. IMHO, the pterodactyl wouldn't have had the wing flexibility to power its flight. The wing needs to be folded up on the upstroke (as all birds do) to generate lift. Recent discoveries point towards birds being the current line of dinosaurs. Flightless dinosaurs have been discovered with non flight feathers in China as well as creatures with most dinosaur characteristics and flight feathers. Even more recently dinosaurs have been discovered with hollow vertebrae as current birds possess. It should be possible to reverse engineer birds into dinosaurs! I have already seen engineered birds that have had teeth instead of beaks and a turkey with a lizard like tail. I fail to understand why there is an upper limit to a creature's size. Can someone explain why? Best regards David Callaghan -----Original Message----- From: Duncan PURVIS >Hi Lee > >Surely the presence of dinosaurs and pterodactyls are evidence of the >opposite, ie lower gravitational field. They, with their massive bones, >could not have supported their own weight in todays gravitational field nor >even pump blood to their brains in the case of the brontosaurus and the >like. The largest self-supporting land mammal possible today would be 15-20 >tons, an agile one would be 8-12 tons (elephant). There is a rule to >support this, which I have forgotten, but could refind if necessary. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 12 09:00:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA19318; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:57:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:57:19 -0700 Message-Id: From: Duncan Purvis Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:57:51 +0000 To: Subject: Re[2]: [OT] The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /221000000/221020552/0/221110198/222140740/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 137e" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id IAA19207 Resent-Message-ID: <"QDCO43.0.lj4.URY8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6975 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi David and Lee and all I was basing my reply on the Holden Limit for animal sizes, but I just found an interesting site which discusses and refutes this theorem. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/sauropods/sauropods-elephants.html hope you find this intersting, I will have to think more about it now, thanks:-) Duncan ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: [OT] The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs Author: MIME:"David Callaghan" at INTERNET Date: 12/10/98 16:22 Hi Lee, Duncan and All I would like to point out that the majority of dinosaurs were small (below 100Kg). It is easier to find fossils of large dinosaurs and they look much more impressive. The much vaunted Velocoraptor was actually turkey sized. The apparent design of known dinosaur bones seem to point to there being a gravitational force similar to today's. IMHO, the pterodactyl wouldn't have had the wing flexibility to power its flight. The wing needs to be folded up on the upstroke (as all birds do) to generate lift. Recent discoveries point towards birds being the current line of dinosaurs. Flightless dinosaurs have been discovered with non flight feathers in China as well as creatures with most dinosaur characteristics and flight feathers. Even more recently dinosau rs have been discovered with hollow vertebrae as current birds possess. It should be possible to reverse engineer birds into dinosaurs! I have already seen engineered birds that have had teeth instead of beaks and a turkey with a lizard like tail. I fail to understand why there is an upper limit to a creature's size. Can someone explain why? Best regards David Callaghan -----Original Message----- From: Duncan PURVIS >Hi Lee > >Surely the presence of dinosaurs and pterodactyls are evidence of the >opposite, ie lower gravitational field. They, with their massive bones, >could not have supported their own weight in todays gravitational field nor >even pump blood to their brains i n the case of the brontosaurus and the >like. The largest self-supporting land mammal possible today would be 15-20 >tons, an agile one would be 8-12 tons (elephant). There is a rule to >support this, which I have forgotten, but could refind if necessary . ------------------------------------------------------------ Scientific Generics Limited Tel: +44 1223 875200 Harston Mill Fax: +44 1223 875201 Harston Cambridge CB2 5NH United Kingdom http://www.generics.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 12 09:23:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA28177; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:19:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:19:33 -0700 From: gvoor@mindspring.com Message-ID: <000a01bdf5fb$4e89ebe0$4df510d1@gregg> To: Subject: Re: [OT] The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:13:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"9Lqib3.0.0u6.JmY8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6976 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It should be possible to reverse engineer birds into dinosaurs! I have >already seen engineered birds that have had teeth instead of beaks and a >turkey with a lizard like tail I would like to see these creatures too. You have a site to go to? etc? gregg v From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 12 11:34:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA20394; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:30:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:30:04 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981012112251.00861790@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:22:51 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: [OT] The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs In-Reply-To: <001601bdf6ba$1522e400$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"aiBpY2.0.G-4.iga8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6978 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: True, many of the dinosaurs were small, just like we have cats and dogs, which incidentally can, because of the square cube ratio, out perform physically larger animals. Like jumping higher, or hauling more weight in relation to their body size. Yet there were the Sauropods and the tyrannosaurus rex. Creatures that couldn't exist in todays environment. And creatures that existed only because of the stress on their bones. The pterodactyl on the other hand could fly, and was evidently able to take off from ground level. Where it was previously thought that it could glide only and had to launch itself from cliffs. I don't see how one can extrapolate "design" to gravitational force. The important thing is in the structure *density* of the bones. I will add to the above, that Joseph Jones, in the 1870's, performed a field survey of the Aboriginal REmains of Tennessee for the Smithsonian (I have a reprint of that survey, you can obtain one as well Sourcebook Project, PO Box 107, Glen Arm, Md 21027). The interesting thing, that puzzled Joseph Jones was that these bones, which he estimated to be 500 years old, were still somewhat intact, although many crumbled when exposed to air. Most were over 6' tall and one, an oldster was over 7' tall. He noted that when he dug down through a mound on a couple of occasions, he dug through the grave of a settler, buried at most 20 years previous, and the bones of the settler were almost totally decomposed, however when he arrived at the bones of the Mt Builders they were still recognizable. Even Mr. Jones admitted, in 1870, that these aborigines obviously had more massive bones than the moderns, as they were able to withstand the ravages of time better. The flightless dinosaurs with non flight feathers are of course a non sequitur :). There is also the Emu and Ostrich who are flightless birds. I suggest that there is sufficient evidence to warrant a rethink of our assumptions and beliefs, and that if anything we owe it to ourselves and our posterity. More than likely though we will do what we do best, play ostrich ourselves Lee At 03:48 PM 10/13/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Lee, Duncan and All > >I would like to point out that the majority of dinosaurs were small (below >100Kg). It is easier to find fossils of large dinosaurs and they look much >more impressive. The much vaunted Velocoraptor was actually turkey sized. >The apparent design of known dinosaur bones seem to point to there being a >gravitational force similar to today's. > >IMHO, the pterodactyl wouldn't have had the wing flexibility to power its >flight. The wing needs to be folded up on the upstroke (as all birds do) to >generate lift. > >Recent discoveries point towards birds being the current line of dinosaurs. >Flightless dinosaurs have been discovered with non flight feathers in China >as well as creatures with most dinosaur characteristics and flight feathers. >Even more recently dinosaurs have been discovered with hollow vertebrae as >current birds possess. > >It should be possible to reverse engineer birds into dinosaurs! I have >already seen engineered birds that have had teeth instead of beaks and a >turkey with a lizard like tail. > >I fail to understand why there is an upper limit to a creature's size. Can >someone explain why? > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Duncan PURVIS > >>Hi Lee >> >>Surely the presence of dinosaurs and pterodactyls are evidence of the >>opposite, ie lower gravitational field. They, with their massive bones, >>could not have supported their own weight in todays gravitational field nor >>even pump blood to their brains in the case of the brontosaurus and the >>like. The largest self-supporting land mammal possible today would be 15-20 >>tons, an agile one would be 8-12 tons (elephant). There is a rule to >>support this, which I have forgotten, but could refind if necessary. > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 12 11:39:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA20273; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:29:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:29:41 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981012100857.0084d790@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:08:57 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs In-Reply-To: <003701bdf5b2$765e0960$9ef082c1@pre-installedco> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"1Bmet3.0.ey4.Kga8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6977 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Duncan I am familiar with that line of thought, actually Ted Holden has written a book about the Saturn effect. Ted is a Velikovskian and is trying to salvage Velikovsky through concocting some scenario in which the gravitational force was diminished in the past. I understand what he believes and why, and have correspondeded with him. These are some facts though that MUST BE CONSIDERED. 1. Decrease gravity and you decrease the stress on bones. A decrease in stress on bones leads to a decrease in bone mass. We know this for a fact. The corollary is also true. We know this for a fact as well (the effects of stress on bones has been measured). 2. An increase in gravitational pull will also increase atmospheric pressure, making the air more viscuous. In addition to which the atmospheric constituency during the Mesozoic was quite different than today. There most assuredly was a higher concentration of co^2. As the English Geologist, Derek Ager, points out in his The New Catastrophism, the atmosphere once had very considerable amounts of co^2, as there is so much of it locked up in limestone throughout the world. It just seems to extrapolate that during the Mesozoic then the ratio of gases in the atmosphere was quite different than it is today and perhaps the heavier co^2 was in more abundance, thus providing more weight and simultaneously an offsetting buoyancy to land based animals. I sue the word buoyancy not to imply that the atmosphere was like water. But to suggest that with a heavier atmosphere (like water in the ocean that permits the whale to live) the increased gravitational pressures would be offset. 3. I predict that we will find further confirmation of this when and if we attempt to colonize Mars or the Moon. Children born there, will first of all have a high mortality rate, as did the experiment with rats born in space recently. Those who survive will grow to adulthood with diminished gravitational stress, hence they will be smaller boned and more frail. I would suspect that they (those born on Mars) will find that they can't return to Earth because of its increased gravitational stress. I of course made no headway with TEd Holden, he after all owns a hypotheses and has written a book. All I can do is point out the corollary of that which he know from experience. Bone mass is lost because of reduced stress, either by teeth extraction, or by astronauts in space, hence the corollary has to be true (and we know that as well) that increased stress increases bone mass. Offsetting the effect would be the fact that an increased gravitational field would also make the air thicker. An analogy is jumping in a swimming pool, of course the atmosphere wouldn't be as thick as water. It is because of the increased atmospheric pressure (heavier air) that the pterodactyl could fly. Ted Holden did not take that into account in developing his hypotheses. Incidentally I have downloaded and printed his exposition about the elephant being the largest land creature possible in the present environment, but (and this is important) he looked only at the present environment and has not considered a heavier, more viscuous, atmosphere. An atmosphere heavy enough for a pterodactyl to fly. All considered however, we are still presented with the verifiable data that a reduction in stress on the bones leads to a reduction in bone mass, and also the corollary of that observation. Lee At 08:31 AM 10/12/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Lee > >Surely the presence of dinosaurs and pterodactyls are evidence of the >opposite, ie lower gravitational field. They, with their massive bones, >could not have supported their own weight in todays gravitational field nor >even pump blood to their brains in the case of the brontosaurus and the >like. The largest self-supporting land mammal possible today would be 15-20 >tons, an agile one would be 8-12 tons (elephant). There is a rule to >support this, which I have forgotten, but could refind if necessary. > >Really enjoy your posts, keep it up. > >duncan > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Date: 11 October 1998 19:36 >Subject: The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs > > > >>Is there evidence that the Earth once had a greater gravitational field >>than it does now? Yes. All one has to do is look at the dinosaur, >sauropod >and the pterodactyl. > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 12 12:44:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA18233; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:40:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:40:43 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000a01bdf5fb$4e89ebe0$4df510d1@gregg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:39:13 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [OT] The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs Resent-Message-ID: <"gzFlQ3.0.mS4.vib8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6979 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gregg - > I would like to see these creatures too. > You have a site to go to? etc? I would like to sell these creatures too. You have a franchise to go to? etc? ;) No, seriously! You think someone isn't going to make a killing selling pet "dinosaurs"? Eventually, in some shape or form, engineered turkeys or whatever, this will happen. Guaranteed. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 12 13:23:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA32256; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:19:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:19:23 -0700 Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:29:40 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19981013030805.353749b2@pop3.friend.ly.net> X-Sender: geet@pop3.friend.ly.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Bob Colvin Subject: RE: [AEF] Occam's Razor Cuts Both Ways Resent-Message-ID: <"CEc5f2.0.ot7.9Hc8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6980 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:24 PM 10/7/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Does anyone know about this GEET Generator mentioned below, or anything >else mentioned? Yes, Paul Pantone recently received a process patent on his GEET fuel processor, go to http://www.geet.com for more information. Bob > >Lee > >> > Cold Fusion is a real phenomenon. It's been tested, reproduced, >> > patented, and is months away from being comercialised. In 1989, >> when >> Who will commercialize the cold fusion ? >> > [Mike.Cottrell-Tribes] > There are a number of companies and researchers working on it. >CETI has a large, American Company as an investor, but they aren't >saying who. They have the patents on the Patterson Power Cell. > > Blacklight Power just got $11M in investment capital from about >a dozen sources to commercialise their products. > > Fiat and Toyota (Toyota was part of a consortium formed to >research Cold Fusion, and they hired Pons and Fleischmann) are working >hard to commercialise their research finds. > > Dr. Paulo Correa (Canadian!!) has a big name investor in his >work. He expects to have a product out next year. (Not exactly Cold >Fusion, but it could be related.) > > GEET has a generator on the market now, and will have a car >conversion kit by next year. The modified Coleman 5KW generator can run >on any fuel, including 50% water solution mixed with a hydrocarbon. > > > > > + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Bob Colvin - GEET of MD/WI + + + + http://www.Friend.ly.Net/GEET + + + + geet@friend.ly.net + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 12 14:16:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA23239; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:11:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:11:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981012140527.0085c360@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:05:27 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Re[2]: [OT] The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"rXNl21.0.1h5.02d8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6981 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Interesting site, thanks a lot. I've bookmarked and will pass it around nature-of-gravity. However, please allow me to point yet again. The observed and known fact. As stress increases on bones, their mass increases and as stress decreases on bones their mass decreases. Again the reason why we get osteoporis (amongst other things) and most certainly the reason that there is shrinkage of the jaw bone after teeth are extracted (check your local dentist) and we know this because that is why astronauts must exercise while in space - to stress their bones and thus retain bone mass. So it stands to figure, that with an increased gravitational stress on the animals, it would require more musculature and tendon effort to perambulate, this would produce greater stress on the bones and thus increase their bone mass and account for the large size of the sauropods and dinosaurs. I would go so far as to suggest that if one could estimate the bone mass density of even the smaller creatures one would find that their bone mass was greater than today. Second consideration: The large bone mass of the neanderthal, and the cro magnon of 40,000 years ago, which was taller and stronger than we are today, according to what extant records have been made available. I've run across some archaeological stuff on the tumults (Burial Mounds of Bahrain Island), Bahrain was supposedly ancient Dilmun and the landscape is dotted with these huge mounds. Some have been excavated and the remains were of cro magnon or homo sapiens sapiens, over 5,000 years old, but compared to us they were much taller and stronger. No specific details, seems archaeologists and anthropologists are hesitant to release details as to ethnicity, average size, etc of ancient skeletal finds. For instance the Kennewick Man, a 9,300 year old skeleton found along the Colombia River near Kennewick, WA is creating quite a stir because the Umatilla Indians, for political purposes, want to claim him as their own. Despite the fact that the Umatilla are themselves recent migrants to the area. Anyway the Kennewick man is rather large, and is not Asian, but apparently of the caucasian race. However authorities are now claiming he is related to the Ainu of Japan, which themselves are a strange and regressive member of the caucasian race. Thus perhaps trying to defuse a very sensitive political situation. So much we don't know and apparently so much we will never know, because we have to consider the unthinkable and rethinking all we think we know is true is a painful process. Lee At 04:57 PM 10/12/98 +0000, you wrote: >Hi David and Lee and all > >I was basing my reply on the Holden Limit for animal sizes, but I just found an interesting site which discusses and refutes this theorem. > >http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/sauropods/sauropods-elephants.html > >hope you find this intersting, I will have to think more about it now, >thanks:-) > >Duncan > >______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ >Subject: Re: [OT] The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs >Author: MIME:"David Callaghan" at INTERNET >Date: 12/10/98 16:22 > > >Hi Lee, Duncan and All > >I would like to point out that the majority of dinosaurs were small (below 100Kg). It is easier to find fossils of large dinosaurs and they look much more impressive. The much vaunted Velocoraptor was actually turkey sized. The apparent design of known dinosaur bones seem to point to there being a gravitational force similar to today's. > >IMHO, the pterodactyl wouldn't have had the wing flexibility to power its flight. The wing needs to be folded up on the upstroke (as all birds do) to generate lift. > >Recent discoveries point towards birds being the current line of dinosaurs. Flightless dinosaurs have been discovered with non flight feathers in China as well as creatures with most dinosaur characteristics and flight feathers. Even more recently dinosaurs have been discovered with hollow vertebrae as current birds possess. > >It should be possible to reverse engineer birds into dinosaurs! I have already seen engineered birds that have had teeth instead of beaks and a turkey with a lizard like tail. > >I fail to understand why there is an upper limit to a creature's size. Can someone explain why? > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Duncan PURVIS > >>Hi Lee >> >>Surely the presence of dinosaurs and pterodactyls are evidence of the >opposite, ie lower gravitational field. They, with their massive bones, >could not have supported their own weight in todays gravitational field nor >even pump blood to their brains in the case of the brontosaurus and the >like. The largest self-supporting land mammal possible today would be 15-20 >tons, an agile one would be 8-12 tons (elephant). There is a rule to >support this, which I have forgotten, but could refind if necessary. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------ >Scientific Generics Limited Tel: +44 1223 875200 >Harston Mill Fax: +44 1223 875201 >Harston >Cambridge >CB2 5NH >United Kingdom http://www.generics.co.uk >------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 12 15:31:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA24314; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:19:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:19:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: bilb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:21:09 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: OBRL - Jacques Benveniste Wins Court Decision (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"1K40u2.0.mx5._1e8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6982 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 13:45:00 -0800 From: James DeMeo Reply-To: obrl-news@lists.village.virginia.edu To: *OBRL_News Subject: OBRL - Jacques Benveniste Wins Court Decision Orgone Biophysical Research Lab http://id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/index.htm Forwarded News Item Please copy and distribute to other interested individuals and groups ********** From: DHughesman@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:53:50 EDT Subject: Benveniste wins court decision In a decision by a Paris civil trial court dated September 16, 1998, Excelsior , publisher of Science et Vie, a French monthly science magazine, was convicted of libeling Dr. Jacques Benveniste. A money award was made. The August, 1997, issue of Science et Vie contained the following statement: "He [the American magician, James Randi] has several major hunting trophies on his wall: unmasking Uri Geller's methods of cheating, and the memory-of-water fraud (see Science et Vie, April, 1997)." The court decision specifies that the defendant (Science et Vie) produced no evidence that could establish its good faith. Comments from Jacques Benveniste Furthermore, The Times of London, which echoed the same statement, attributed to James Randi, in its September 9, 1998, issue, published a correction with an apology on September 25, 1998. It should be mentioned that James Randi himself, in a letter posted in March 1998 to his Internet discussion group, denied having made any allegation of fraud in the memory-of-water case: "If they (two French Nobel Prize winners) did indeed think that he was a fraud, I disagree." These events cast a harsh light on the inconsistent behavior of French Nobel Prize winners, Charpak and Jacob, who declared, in a January, 1997, article in the French daily, Le Monde, that a fraud indeed existed. In fact, if the two Nobel winners had had the slightest bit of evidence pointing to fraud, Science et Vie certainly would have produced it in court! To conclude, as far as science is concerned, the fact that the results of this research cannot be attributed to either a fraud or an artifact (for which no one in the past ten years has proposed a credible hypothesis) strongly suggests collective behavior aimed at keeping the lid of strict orthodoxy on biological research. On this subject, see the article in the June, 1998, issue of La Recherche and my answer in the September, 1998, issue. Also visit http://www.digibio.com. ++++++++++ Another related item: (One wonders if these Harvard professors quoted below have studied the history of science, to know that everything from meteorites to steam engines to the airplane were declared "fraud" for many years by the unstudied university "scientists". Obviously, these Harvard professors don't have too much hard work on their hands, except, perhaps, to shop around for the most fashionable powdered wigs and robes to wear at their "outings". - J.D.) French scientist shrugs off winning his second Ig Nobel prize [Nature, 8 October 1998, Vol. 395, p. 535.] [Boston] French researcher Jacques Benveniste is set to become the first person in history to win two `Ig Nobel' Prizes when this year's prizes are announced at an award ceremony due to take place at Harvard University tonight (8 October). Benveniste won his first 'Ig'--awarded annually by Marc Abrahams, editor of the Annals of Improbable Research, and a group of scientists--for work claiming to show that antibody solutions retain their biological effectiveness, even when diluted to the point where no trace of the antibody is detectable (Nature 333, 816; 1988). The water, Benveniste argues, preserves a "memory" of the substance after it is gone. The second Ig Nobel Prize will be awarded for an extension of this work. Benveniste now claims that a solution's biological activity can be digitally recorded, stored on a computer hard drive, sent over the Internet as an attached document, and transferred to a different water sample at the receiving end (see http://www.digibio.com). "We've demonstrated that you can transmit the biological effect by e-mail between Chicago and Paris," says Benveniste, who heads the Digital Biology Laboratory in Clamart, France, which is financed by the private company, DigiBio S.A. "With this approach, you could transfer the activity of a drug by means of standard telecommunications technology." "French science has not risen to such giddy heights since N-rays were invented by Blondlot early in this century," says magician and sceptic James Randi, author of the forthcoming book A Magician in the Laboratory, based partly on his involvement in an (sic) investigation of Benveniste's laboratory practices carried out in 1988. Benveniste argues that the science establishment is inherently resistant to new ideas. "Orthodox people are determined to block anything new in biology," he says. He compares the conventional view that "you need a molecule to have a biological effect" with the debate between Descartes and Newton four centuries ago over whether action at a distance was possible. "I say the effect comes not from the molecule itself but from the signal it imparts." Benveniste says that he is "happy to receive a second Ig Nobel Prize, because it shows that those making the awards don't understand anything. People don't give out Nobel Prizes without first trying to find out what the recipients are doing. But the people who give out Ig Nobels don't even bother to inquire about the work." Harvard chemist Dudley Herschbach, who won the 1986 Nobel Prize in Chemistry, finds Benveniste's claims "very hard to reconcile with what we know about molecules." Herschbach considers the [second 'Ig'] prize "very well deserved. And he just might win a third one if he keeps going in this way." (JD Note: Randi, a magician with no scientific training or expertise, engaged in a calculated smear of Benveniste with the support and assistance of Nature magazine editors. There was no "investigation" as such.) ********** OBRL News is a product of the non-profit Orgone Biophysical Research Lab Greensprings Research and Educational Center PO Box 1148, Ashland, Oregon 97520 USA http://id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/index.htm demeo@mind.net Building upon the discoveries of the late, great natural scientist, Dr. Wilhelm Reich To subscribe to OBRL-News, send the message: subscribe obrl-news to the following address: Majordomo@lists.village.virginia.edu To unsubscribe, or change to a new email address, firstly: unsubscribe obrl-news to the same address above. Then re-subscribe with your new address. subscribe obrl-news From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 12 20:07:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA19918; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 20:05:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 20:05:39 -0700 Message-Id: <199810130307.XAA28208@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , Subject: Hubbard site? Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 23:11:27 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xRTOv3.0.3t4.2Ei8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6984 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Anyone ever attempted to build the Joseph H. Cater free energy device which plans are at: http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/cater.html Having perused this site I find it mentioned in the site that it is similar to another Solaris site containing info on the hubbard generator, which Cater seems to have adapted in this design. Any one know where this "other site" is? I had mentioned in a previous post that I had built something similar to this out of windings wrapped on unmagnetized strontium ferrite. One of the possible advantages I seemed to record is that a relatively high internal capacitance can be created by a variation of this hubbard geometry. The models I have should resonate without an externally connected capacitance somewhere around 20,000 hz, but I havent made any tests with a signal generator to verify this. Or for that matter I havent exactly pictured in my mind what possible use it could have. Sincerely Harvey Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 8 21:32:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA12495 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:32:34 -0700 Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:32:34 -0700 X-Envelope-From: tv@juno.com Thu Oct 8 21:32:31 1998 Received: from x6.boston.juno.com (x6.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.23]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA12450 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:32:31 -0700 Received: (from tv@juno.com) by x6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DQ4E65KZ; Fri, 09 Oct 1998 00:32:35 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Old-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:01:46 -0700 Subject: Re: Leon Dragone/Coil with no magnet Message-ID: <19981008.212613.10054.1.tv@juno.com> References: <199810071909.MAA23670@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6,8-18,20,22-27,29-47 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:09:13 -0700 (PDT) dave dameron writes: >>Hi Jim and all, >>At 06:30 PM 10/6/98 +0800, you wrote: >> Leon Dragone outlines the very simple nature of his electrical >>'heat pump' effect. His system consists of nothing more than a coil, a magnet, >>a power supply, and a switch. He places a permanent magnet within a copper >>coil and energizes the coil so that the external field of the magnet is >>removed/compressed from the space around the magnet, without >>changing the >>The field from the coil seems to cancel the field from the magnet, >>but maybe the energies do not cancel each other but stays in the air? > >I think some of Dragone's work was with coils without magnets as well. In his paper, "The Energetics of Ferromagnetism", Leon Dragone described an experiment in which he seemed to be cyclically robbing a permanent magnet of energy which was restored by fluctuation energy. This was evidenced by excess energy pulses observed on an oscilloscope and a temperature drop in the magnet. I posted the fax of this report on the web at: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4810/dragone1.html Also, Leon Dragone and Dr. P.T. Pappas both told me they also observed cooling effect in these coils without magnets, which leads me to wonder whether the magnet is necessary for this "Electroentropic Effect". see also: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/NewMcool.htm or of this doesnt work just go to: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/ and select Newman pages. Tim >-Dave > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 9 05:50:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA14958 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:50:38 -0700 Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:50:38 -0700 X-Envelope-From: jdo@ucalgary.ca Fri Oct 9 05:50:36 1998 Received: from ds11.acs.ucalgary.ca (root@ds11.acs.ucalgary.ca [136.159.244.11]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA14927 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:50:35 -0700 received: from acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca(136.159.34.205) by ds11.acs.ucalgary.ca via smap (V2.0) id ZZ100575; Fri, 9 Oct 98 06:51:30 -0600 Received: from localhost by acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA174976; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:51:06 -0600 Old-Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:51:06 -0600 (MDT) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" X-Sender: jdo@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fuel cells on Apollo produced water and electricity. In-Reply-To: <361D9B4C.9B@tiac.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: You said:"You can buy a 50 watt fuel cell that is a small cube, not much larger than the long side of a nine volt battery on each side. Power comes from small metal hydride hydrogen generators and atmosphearic oxygen. These new proton membrane transport fuel cells are used commercially to power road side advisory electronic signs in New Jersey during winter months when solar energy is insufficient. ________________________________________________________________________ Where can you buy these fuel cells and how much are they? Any contact names, phone numbers, e-mail addresses or web sites? Jorg Ostrowski From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 08:18:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA27904; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:15:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:15:58 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <3e4e8d4c.361f79cd@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:14:21 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: A magnetic field thought experiment. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"3K5I42.0.vp6.ket7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6953 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 10/9/98 10:54:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, btech@surfsouth.com writes: << >Connect the coil windins up with two batteries >with one coil lead top to postive battery terminal and bottom lead to >negative terminal of same battery. > >For the second coil reverse the battery connections for the second coil >and battery connection that is top coil lead to negative terminal of >second battery and and bottom lead to positive terminal of second battery.. > >If also variable resistors were also placed in the battery and coil >combinations you would be able to adjust the voltage and current supplied >to both coils. > >The coil then with greater current would it seem be able to produce a >greater magnetic field in a given direction. > >By altering the current and voltage settings we should be able to change >one pole position to north to south and so on. > >Interesting effects may be also be noticed by applying alternating currents >of varing frequences to both coils in both opposition and and or in >combination with one another. > >I know some may say that we can simply change magnetic field poles by >simply using an alternating current but what I saying that a completely >new way at looking >at what is now accepted and who knows we may observe if we tried the >experiement. > >Just a thought >Has anyone actually tried this >Geoff >> The issue here seems to be if you have two closely spaced wires carrying currents I1 and I2 in opposite directions, is the field at a distance any different from a single wire with a current I1 -I2. If the superposition theory of conventional theory holds, the answer is no, but the scaler theory advocates would say that more is going on. So anyone experimenting in this area might find it useful to understand the "scaler theory" ( which I admit I do not, incidently). Ken keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 08:36:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA06908; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:34:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:34:55 -0700 Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810101536.IAA27434@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: How magnets work for health Resent-Message-ID: <"bfZfP2.0.lh1.Vwt7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6954 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Woody and all, At 11:29 AM 10/9/98 -0400, you wrote: > Isn't the magnetic field part of the environment rather than a part of the >magnet? To prove it spin a magnet around its axis in a coil and nothing >happens. Spin a coil around a magnet electricity is formed. > > Are you thinking of a configuration like an electromagnet, a solenoid wound over a cylindrical steel core? Current through the coil excites the core as a magnet. The coil is fixed, but the core can rotate inside it about its axis, like the shaft of a motor. I assume the magnetic "lines" from the core rotate with it, instead of being fixed to the coil, but have not come up with a good test to determine it. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 08:38:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA08752; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:37:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:37:03 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <2b7e2077.361f7f56@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:37:58 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: A magnetic field thought experiment. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"fftOO1.0.d82.Uyt7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6955 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 10/10/98 1:06:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, btech@surfsouth.com writes: << If diamagnetic is similar but opposite to paramagnetic, is there a reverse equivalence to ferromagnetic? If not, why can't there be? Why not something that when placed in a magnetic field and removed retains strong diamagnetism? >> An interesting question, but I am having problems understanding how this might work. With a ferromagnetic material, an external applied field causes domains to align and add to the field so when the external field is removed the domain-created field remains. With a diamagnetic material the external field causes an internal field which is in the opposite direction from the applied field. Now lets say that effect is permanent, so when you remove the external field the internal field remains. It seems (?) you would just end up with a permanent magnet the opposite polarity of what you would have had with a ferromagnetic material. If that is what would happen (or happens) might the effect be useful? To me it seems it possibly could be. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 13:28:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA11116; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 13:27:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 13:27:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981010032211.00a224f0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 03:22:11 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: tinfoil and stryofoam Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"8tl6.0.cj2.iCy7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6956 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >From another forum. Any interest in this conversation? Sorry I am so dilatory in responding to messages. We don't seem to be getting any customers. Dave's last message had this comment: >In a Rex Research infolio I read about an eleventh grader who had done TT >Brown>type experiments as a science project in 1986. He charged aluminum foil >around styrofoam to 200KV, and always got an upward thrust, not matter the >polarity on the aluminum. > I recently found him on the internet. Here is a recent exchange. > I think he may have been absorbing electrons from the inductive flows of >the attractive force. >Dave: > >I'll be the first to admit that ionic wind, while not entirely the >cause, could be attributed to a little bit of the force with Brown. With >200,000 V, there is guaranteed to be some ionization of the air. What >totally convinced me otherwise was the uni-directional nature of the >force that I later observed. The apparent weight loss was always >negative, implying the force was always reacting "against" the earth. >This motion was always in this same direction, regardless of what plate >polarity was aligned with the earth. > >Have you read up at all on JRR Searl? He has a website but the details >are kind of sketchy. He's also offering his research notes for sale, >although I'm not sure what value they would be, considering that none >of his "flying discs" are in-fact "flying". Although they would give an >insight into some of the concepts that are involved. > >Doyle I suspect what is happening here is that the moving charge is field replacing the atoms of the foil which depart the scene. With a deficit in the foil (much like a filament in a light bulb continuously produces a deficit that converts the flow of electricity into a frequency emission), electrons are pulled out of the orbiting shells of the atoms that make up the air, ionizing it. These molecules in turn pull electrons out of the inductive flows of the Earth's emission field, lessening the force of gravity and thus creating less weight in the atoms that make up the foil. Then, Dave's effect takes over where the weight of the air pushes the foil and foam up. Peter TO UNSUBSCRIBE, SEND A MESSAGE TO PUT IN THE BODY OF THE MESSAGE UNSUBSCRIBE: nature-of-gravity TO POST MESSAGES, SEND MESSAGE TO nature-of-gravity@bbs.tmug.org FOR PROBLEMS, SEND MESSAGE TO gravprob@tmug.org From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 14:04:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA21144; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 14:01:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 14:01:30 -0700 From: UNIR2B1@aol.com Message-ID: <81cf5870.361fcb52@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:02:10 EDT To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY NOW FORMING... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"nvTTc1.0.DA5.fiy7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6957 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Attn: Professional/avocational scientists, free energy questors seeking to immigrate from population centers-- PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY NOW FORMING... ...on 40 wooded acres between two rural, dead-end roads. Geographically, this area of the southeastern US is a 'safe zone' according to various "future maps" that juxtapose prophecy with tectonic, topological and geomagnetic data. Situated at the southern end of Lookout Mt., this land overlies a high water table; the level of our well remained constant even through a recent, protracted dry spell. This acreage is also a jumping-off point to a vast wilderness (deer and other wildlife roam the vicinity). Should the need arise to "take to the hills," the original Appalachian Trail fortuitously begins right behind our property! Additionally, this area is a spelunker's Mecca, and some of us are currently scouting to provision a nearby cave. We are predicating our "intentional community" on faith that is rational, optimism that is realistic. We're seeking partners diverse in their views and backgrounds, but like-minded in their dedication to personal and collective progress. Leaving fanatics and dogmatists to the confines of their cults, we are focusing on human evolution. Beginning with exigent concerns like establishing survival stores, we hope to quickly deploy exciting and tenable long-term solutions to all forms of dependency. Initial plans include water enhancement techniques, spirulina cultivation, composting & vermiculture, hydroponics, and alternative energy (we expect to generate novel contributions to most of these arts). Beyond these projects, however, we are evaluating innovative methods of converting various energy forms *directly* into human and plant vitality, and pursuing loftier concerns like interdimensional "consciousness expansion" (of which we have gained some definitive and rather exclusive knowledge). Although self-sufficiency and isolation from marauders are essential for surviving a worst-case millennium transition, we are emphasizing preparedness against a *particular* ramification of societal collapse: dissociation from fellow minds. Travel restrictions, telecommunication disruption, etc. will threaten, above all, the ability of the forward-looking people to brainstorm and collaborate. We regard the right mix of people not only as the greatest survival resource, but also the most essential ingredient for abundant and meaningful living. Therefore, we envision a microcosm wherein civilization itself could progress even in seclusion. Such an assemblage requires people of conscience and learning; self-governing and communicative, with an aptitude for creative and interactive thinking. Although the most cutting-edge discoveries are now pointing toward natural, low-tech means of tapping subtler energies, lab equipment is also needed for apprehending and verifying those discoveries. This is not a solicitation to join a regimented community, but an opportunity to create an enterprise--a haven for intellectual and spiritual freedom and productivity. Ayn Rand wrote: "Don't say, 'Life isn't like that;' ask yourself whose." We see the current human predicament not merely as a signal to retreat to hoarding, but as a call to advance beyond the need of it. If privation is mankind's looming threat, let's fight it by discovering, utilizing, refining and promulgating new keys to plenitude. ...But time is short for organizing a fully proactive response; so if these aspirations resonate with your own, please don't delay in contacting us. Sincerely, Russ Rosser UNIR2B1@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 17:31:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA00269; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:30:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:30:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981011100125.00883ab0@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 10:01:25 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re: Vande Graf construction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"rsvme2.0.04.Wm_7s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6958 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 02:45 PM 10/7/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hi ALL Just a short message to say I have just updated my Van De Graaf construction project web page. I have included new photos and new construction worth a look if you want to put some spark back into your life. it can be found at geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/vande.htm Geoff Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 18:37:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA16217; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 18:35:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 18:35:23 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19981011013713.006fe9ec@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 21:37:13 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: How magnets work for health Resent-Message-ID: <"7Y1wA2.0.Jz3.Qj08s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6959 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:54 PM 10/9/98 -0700, you wrote: >wood wrote: >> >> At 09:01 PM 10/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >> >If more and more 'stuff' came out of each end, why doen't the field keep >> >growing larger and larger over time? >> > >> >> Isn't the magnetic field part of the environment rather than a part of the >> magnet? To prove it spin a magnet around its axis in a coil and nothing >> happens. Spin a coil around a magnet electricity is formed. >> >> Woody > >Really? > >What about the N machines and Farady's generator? > > I don't think they work on the principle of lines of force cutting through a coil. They pick up electrons from a spinning magnet in a different way Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 20:21:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA06430; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:20:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:20:11 -0700 Message-ID: <36202484.5E7C@keelynet.com> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 22:22:44 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Tapping the Casimir force Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-OyYh.0.Ma1.gF28s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6960 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Folks! I found this amusing post and thought it worth sharing with some additional information. It deals with the zero point 'pressure' which is everywhere present and which can apparently do physical work by pushing two plates together. Of course, these plates stay pushed together but please read the following, then continue for some notes on Win Lambertsons' WIN CELLS; ================= Email: rangrrik@gte.net Date: 1998/09/20 Forums: alt.energy.over-unity, sci.energy, sci.skeptic Ian Goddard wrote: > > The Casimir experiment [1] showed that the zero-point > energy of empty space can exert a force on plates that > pushes them together. Based on this effect, it has been > proposed that energy might be extracted from empty space. > [2] However, the following, quoted from a website about > free energy [3], points out a simple reason why a ZPE > device should be just another free-energy fallacy: > > The catch to any zero point energy device is > that quantum electrodynamics is a conservative > force; therefore, it matters not how the plates > come together. It'll take the same amount of > energy to pull them apart and return them to > their starting position as it took for them > to move together. [so it produces no energy] > > How is that not totally obvious to everyone? What have those > promoting ZPE as an energy source come up with to solve this? Rubber bands? ================= Another Casimir URL; http://www.phys.uni.torun.pl/~jkob/physnews96/node9.html On the Vacuum Energy; http://www.pcss.maps.susx.ac.uk/users/markh/RQF1/node34.html#SECTION00053000000000000000 The most recent experiment by Lamoreaux; http://www.pcss.maps.susx.ac.uk/users/markh/RQF1/node36.html#SECTION00055000000000000000 Darrell Moffitts article originally posted directly to the KeelyNet BBS and lifted by the vampire site Sumeria; http://www.livelinks.com/sumeria/phys/cpedog.html ================== I had the privilege to meet Win Lambertson about 4 years ago and attend his workshop. This was when he was working on getting a patent for his WIN cells and I'm not sure one was ever issued. At the workshop, Win reported on his early experiments with this Casimir force where he placed two plates together in close proximity and developed a means to convert the mechanical pressure to electrical energy and to restore the plates to their original position, in a word, re-cocking it mechanically so they could again be pushed together. Win said in those early days he used banks of 100 Watt tungsten filament bulbs which often blew out. Examination of the tungsten filaments show they were blow apart, like a fuse subjected to a momentary burst of high voltage. He said he was able to extract electrical energy from his cells for nearly constant power but the lamps would randomly blow out. He attributes these failures to changes in the zpe pressure which cause high voltage spikes. He realized he could use sodium or gas vapor lamps that could easily absorb these high voltage spikes and simply convert any excessive spikes into more light. Much like using a lamp as a ballast in an oscillator. There are pictures of his Win Cells (many of these put together into a cylinder to add the power from each) powering 5 sodium lamps. So, I heard what I considered to be another confirmation that the aether/zpe does move in waves which we can think of as higher pressure or higher energy followed eventually by the normal pressures. This means any device or circuit which was intended to tap zpe/aether flows would need to have a 'pilot circuit' to serve as a voltage/current regulator when it detected an intensification of the incoming power. Kind of like an AVR (automatic voltage regulator). This would protect whatever load was placed on the device by quenching any spikes or pulling up any sags. At Win's workshop, he passed around a few of these single cells and you could clearly see what appeared to be an RTV/silicon caulk like compound between two thin ceramic plates. My thinking at the time was this WAS THE RUBBER BAND the guy jokes about above. In a question to Win, I theorized at the workshop that he had quartz or other crystals embedded in the silicone caulk which would be subject to the slapping of the plates against each other from the pressure of the zpe/aether waves. Win said 'well we won't talk about that as I am working on my patent.'..... I might have been offbase but it would explain the conversion of mechanical force to electricity by piezoelectric action and the rubbery silicone caulk would be the RESTORATIVE mechanical action to 're-cock' the plates for another mechanical compression from the Casimir effect. The cell would serve as a rectifier/check valve/diode which is one way (pun intended) to tap into this force as Henry Moray was supposed to have done with his 'swedish stone' based Moray Valve. Many of these 'cells' are stacked together into columns all connected together electrically. Because it is piezoelectric (in my opinion), the energy should be high voltage, which would drive a sodium (ionized plasma) tube, indicating these single cells should be connected in series. The rubbery silicone caulk, thinly applied so that the plates would be kept apart the requisite Casimir distance, would compress under the mechanical zpe/aether pressure, slap the quartz crystals which would produce piezoelectricity, then the plates would be pushed back to their original position by the rubbery caulk, ready to be slapped together again. This would be a linear analogue to the rotary paddlewheel idea of tapping into flowing energies that result from differences in potential. It strikes me that DC is the brute force method of energy extraction from AC with this linear method while AC is extracted by resonant tapping as with the paddlewheel method. Interesting how this ties in with the report of the Tesla electric car where he used several vacuum tubes in his electrical box that sat on the seat of the vehicle. Here are two relevant Tesla files; http://www.keelynet.com/energy/teslafe1.htm http://www.keelynet.com/energy/teslafe2.htm The cells/tubes could be hooked in parallel to increase the current or in series to increase the voltage. Perhaps the ceramic disks used by Lambertson are piezoelectric unto themselves, that is by their very composition. Like the two chocolate pieces of an Oreo cookie with the rubbery silicone as the cream filling. This is a distinct possibility as an alternative to the idea of ground up quartz crystals suspended in the silicone caulk. I would think construction of such a cell (with the ground up crystals) would require that the crystals be oriented perpendicular to the faces of the ceramic plates, to get the greatest amount of mechanical compression for the most electricity. If the ceramic plate composition is the key, then just slapping them together would produce the piezoelectric energy. When examining the cells Win graciously passed around, I saw only the two ceramic disks, the silicone caulk and no metal. I think there was a wire attached to each ceramic piece like a solar cell, but I don't recall now. I don't hear or see any work or reports by anyone other than Win for this intriguing mechanical energy extraction using the Casimir force and if Win can do it in his workshop, surely a crude version could be produced just to produce enough to fulfill Puthoffs 'One Watt Challenge'. -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 10 20:59:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA13618; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:56:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:56:25 -0700 Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:57:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810110357.UAA21683@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: A magnetic field thought experiment. Resent-Message-ID: <"AG6nb.0.hK3.fn28s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6961 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bill and all, At 04:01 AM 10/10/98 -0400, you wrote: >If diamagnetic is similar but opposite to paramagnetic, is there a reverse >equivalence to ferromagnetic? If not, why can't there be? Why not >something that when placed in a magnetic field and removed retains strong >diamagnetism? > A permanent magnet may already be doing this, sort of. That is, there is a B field which is the opposite direction of the H field. Think of an unmagnetized steel ring (to make the path lengths simple) with a gap. A toroidal coil is wound on it and is used to magnetize it, then the current is turned off. If there is some permanent magnetism remaining, there is a field in the gap, both H and B fields the same direction (relative permeability of tha gap = +1). The B field is continuous across the gap, so it continues in the ring the same direction. By Ampere's law, the net current enclosed is now zero, so the sum of the H fields around the gap and ring is zero. Thus the H field in the ring is the opposite direction of the B field and H(gap)*width(gap) =-H(ring)*(path length of the ring). That is unless the path enclosed some net atomic circulating currents, then the total H*path would not be zero??? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 01:15:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA18028; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 01:14:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 01:14:01 -0700 Message-Id: <199810110815.EAA22440@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , Subject: Re: Error of my ways; answer Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:54:42 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KDljI3.0.XP4.8Z68s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6962 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I recently made a post which described stimulating florescent bulbs with high voltage electric fields generated form a series resonance and then postulating that placing these bulbs at right angles to the magnetic fields involved in the same series resonance might obtain an output at the end of the bulbs. The problem with the construction lies in the fact that although the electric and magnetic fields are at right angles, The direction of the intended output was not in a direction that was perpendicular to BOTH the magnetic AND electric fields. As one can see from the post the bulbs are inserted parallel to the magnetic field thus one should not expect an output. This was what I was trying to show as the error of my thinking. I actually spent the time to test this and didnt realize until I finished that the design was based on faulty thinking. > > I constructed a hubbard like assembly of florescent light bulbs in > which aluminum foil wrapped around the central bulb served as one plate for > a cylindrical electric field. Around this assembly were surrounded more > bulbs and then another shell of aluminum foil which served as the outer > connection. It is relatively easy to light these bulbs through higher > voltage/high freq. with those electrical connections straight on the glass > instead of the end connections. > This whole assembly then went inside the air core coils that contained > the process of resonance that enabled the bulbs to light in the first > place. It was my hope that I could take the the electric and magnetic > fields in resonance and place them at right angles which I had done to a > partial degree in this model. I was then hoping to have the first > demonstration of my idea; that of a flux capacitor. I wanted to be able to > extract energy not from either the magnetic or electric directly, but from > their interaction. Too me it seemed plausible that I could obtain this > output directly from the end connections of the bulbs. What a wonderful > idea, light the bulbs and obtain an output at the same time! Even today I > had forgot the error of my ways and once again wondered why this scenario > wouldnt work. It wasnt until I made this post that I remembered,so I wont > be surprized if it might confuse more folks down the line. Do you see why > it doesnt work? Sincerely Harvey D. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net > ---------- > PS; the answer to the question shows that such a light could still work. > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > To leave this list, email > with the body text: leave keelynet > WWW based join and leave forms and KeelyNet list archives > are at http://dallastexas.net/keelynet/ > ------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 04:38:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA10875; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 04:37:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 04:37:50 -0700 Message-ID: <003d01bdf50b$99ef8ae0$fe4b4a0c@dialup.csn.net> From: "Chris Malcheski" To: Subject: Re: PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY NOW FORMING... Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 05:37:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"FtBRM3.0.rf2.EY98s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6963 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Russ, I've contemplated this type of idea myself over the years, but decided against it. The reason is one of basic human nature. Any time you get a group of people together - even the simplest business partnership - that group begins to create a heirarchy of power and authority that rapidly overshadows their reason for joining together in the first place. A power structure begins to form the minute a group is established; you get the shepherds who become tyrants, the followers who become whimpy sheep, and everybody very rapidly loses their focus on why they got together in the first place. Power and control become the one and only focus within a matter of hours. It's human nature and barring some evolutionary jump with respect to the human ego, it will never change under any circumstances. The pending world crises are not going to be enough to curtail this trait in people. It's sometimes very difficult to consider this aspect of joining together with others. The lure of knowing the potential of such a group is very enticing. But in actual practice, people are people and they don't know any other way to function. They either seek shelter or control - or both - at the expense of the group. We don't usually factor this into our predictions of what could be possible. Personally I'm all for communicating and cooperating, and I'd be more than happy to help out these efforts any way I can. But having a group "tied together" in any ongoing way is suicidal. I don't consider myself as cynical on this matter, since whatever goal you had in mind is not being diminished. I'm only negating the mechanics of how you reach it as far as this particular method. Any goal is achievable. It's only a matter of certain methods being a guaranteed failure. There are always other methods to consider. This is only my personal opinion, for whatever it's worth. :) -- Chris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 05:05:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA15536; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 05:00:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 05:00:50 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981011120931.00db0ef8@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:09:31 -0400 To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Perpetual Motion runs the universe Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"xwpP2.0.Xo3.nt98s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6964 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi; I really want to imprint a single layer Searl plate and roller as a sculpture some day. It would sit there, spinning and rotating, with no wires, battery or or kicker coil. I think it would save alot of time in these situations. Dennis At 10:51 PM 10/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Folks! > >Here is an example of the ceaseless arguing about the impossibility and >non-existence of perpetual motion and/or free energy. Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 05:31:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA20074; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 05:30:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 05:30:24 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981011123717.00db805c@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:37:17 -0400 To: Henry Curtis From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Corbino Effect? Cc: Alan.CHEAH@adecco.com, alex@frolov.spb.ru, Eric Howlett , freenrg-l@eskimo.com, gjcheah@guybutler.com, wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu, hic@world.std.com, jkokor@alum.mit.edu, discjt@servtech.com, jsearl@tako.demon.co.uk, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, lstelmac@lynx.neu.edu, 71650.60@CompuServe.COM, rsmith@itiip.com, 73577.123@CompuServe.COM, tcapizzi@world.std.com, tom.duff@poweroasis.com, TAFAUL@aol.com, vortex-L@eskimo.com, Nick Edgington Resent-Message-ID: <"B4yyP3.0.Yv4.UJA8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6965 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi; I have my Dad's January 1965 Glossary of Electronic Properties by Emil Schafer EPIC Report No. S-7. Under Hall Coefficient: The Corbino effect is a special case of the Hall effect which occurs when a disc carrying a radial current is placed in a magnetic field which is perpendicular to the plane of the disc. I did a web search but I could only find that, while the Hall effect is resistive in nature, the Corbino effect is a conductance phenomenon. Any comments are welcome. I don't think that people who ask questions are ignorant. Dennis At 01:35 AM 10/11/98 -0600, you wrote: >Please forgive my ignorance, but what is the Corbino effect? Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 09:20:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA08323; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 09:18:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 09:18:50 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981011162729.00db6b64@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_908137649==_" Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 12:27:29 -0400 To: "Meat Truck" , , From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Error of my ways; answer X-Attachments: F:\Caduplas\Caduplas.gif; Resent-Message-ID: <"lSmHp.0.z12.gfD8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6966 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_908137649==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi; Here's a quote and bitmap (attached: caduplas.gif) from Moray B. King's "Tapping The Zero Point Energy" that I thought you might find interesting. > 134 Moray B. King > >Subject the ion-acoustic oscillation of a plasma tube to pulsed, >electromagnetic opposition by inserting >the tube into the core of a caduceus coil (Figure 9 - caduplas.gif)). A variable >oscillator producing a triangular waveform can be used to trigger >the ion-acoustic mode in the tube .43,41 Coupling the tube's >leads directly across the caduceus coil will allow the natural >spiking from the ion-acoustic resonance to be the pulsed >excitation on the coil itself. A synergistic feedback may be >triggered in which the orthorotated ZPE flux couples to the ion-acoustic oscillations further energizing the spiking on the coil. >This would yield an increasing macroscopic vacuum polarization as >well as gravitational, energy, and time anomalies. A dramatic >change in weight of the apparatus would then conclusively >demonstrate a zero-point energy coherence. Regards; Dennis At 07:54 AM 10/9/98 -0500, Meat Truck wrote: >I recently made a post which described stimulating florescent bulbs with >high voltage electric fields generated form a series resonance and then >postulating that placing these bulbs at right angles to the magnetic fields >involved in the same series resonance might obtain an output at the end of >the bulbs. The problem with the construction lies in the fact that although >the electric and magnetic fields are at right angles, The direction of the >intended output was not in a direction that was perpendicular to BOTH the >magnetic AND electric fields. As one can see from the post the bulbs are >inserted parallel to the magnetic field thus one should not expect an >output. This was what I was trying to show as the error of my thinking. I >actually spent the time to test this and didnt realize until I finished >that the design was based on faulty thinking. --=====================_908137649==_ Content-Type: image/gif; name="Caduplas.gif"; x-mac-type="47494666"; x-mac-creator="4A565752" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Caduplas.gif" R0lGODdhLAL8AYMAAAAAABERESIiIjMzM0RERFVVVWZmZnd3d4iIiJmZmaqqqru7u8zMzN3d3e7u 7v///ywAAAAALAL8AQME/vDJSau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oqq5s675wLM90bd94ru987//AoHBILBqP yKRyyWw6n9CodEqtWq/YrHbL7Xq/4LB4TC6bz+i0es1uu9/wuHxOr9vv+Lx+z+/7/4CBgoOEhYaH iImKi4yNjo+QkZKTlJWWl5iZmpucnZ6foKGio6SlpqeoqaqrrK2ur7CxsrO0tba3uLmDALy9vr/A wcLDxMUavDLIust0xc7P0NHS09TV1tMSzhbEFNcA2cPMoN7k5ebn6Onq6+zt7u/px9+n8PX29/j5 +vv8/f7/53j4AqMMoMGDCBMqXMjQm46B4lAoAzHxAcRtDTNq3AjwYa+I/SCHcLPI8Z7HiiFTjgJ2 cp7Kl6Eu5pAJs+Ymmjdw2txZSWcNnzyDPgI6g6jQo4mMxlCKtOmujzuYOp3qR6oLq1Sz4sHKgqvW r3K8qhALtiwbshKhml2bB+0Jt2zjhoFbgq7cu1vsjtCLt28VviEA+x38RPAHw4QTJ0HcgbHixyLV 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freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 10:13:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA24887; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 10:12:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 10:12:02 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19981011171409.0069e5f4@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 13:14:09 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: magnets Resent-Message-ID: <"eW2i83.0.m46.XRE8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6967 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:36 AM 10/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Woody and all, >At 11:29 AM 10/9/98 -0400, you wrote: > >> Isn't the magnetic field part of the environment rather than a part of the >>magnet? To prove it spin a magnet around its axis in a coil and nothing >>happens. Spin a coil around a magnet electricity is formed. >> >> >Are you thinking of a configuration like an electromagnet, a solenoid wound >over a cylindrical steel core? Current through the coil excites the core as >a magnet. >The coil is fixed, but the core can rotate inside it about its axis, like >the shaft of a motor. I assume the magnetic "lines" from the core rotate >with it, instead of being fixed to the coil, but have not come up with a >good test to determine it. >-Dave > > If the coil core is a magnet with the north being at one end of the coil and south the other by rotating the core you will not get and electric current. The lines of force are not part of the magnet but an interuption in space. These lines do not move. Make a coil with a magnet coil and spin the magnet. If running perfectly true you will not get an electron flow. If you build a rotating coil using slip rings to get the power out the rotating coil will produce the electron flow as it is cutting across these lines. reference source THE MANUAL OF FREE ENERGY DEVICES AND SYSTEMS VOL111 pg. 64 Quote The lines of force are a property of space itself,not attached to the magnet which serves to induce the field. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 11:34:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA15776; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 11:33:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 11:33:16 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981011013415.00a18da0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 01:34:15 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"iswT03.0.Ls3.hdF8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6968 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry folks. I just couldn't resist making another pitch that gravity is not a property of mass. The Ancient Engineers, L. Sprague de Camp, Ballantine Books, 1974, page 140. The author in a discussion about the Colossus of Rhodes, built by Chares, mentions a tale by Sextus Empiricus in the 2nd Century of the Common era. Sextus Empiricus said that the Colossus was originally planned to be half its eventual height. When the city decided to double its height, Chares asked only twice the original fee, forgetting that the material would be increased eightfold. This error drove him to bankruptcy and suicide. "It seems however, incredible that a man with the engineering skill that Chares must have had should not have known the SQUARE CUBE LAW. This law states that, if you increase the dimensions of an object while keeping its shape the same, the area increases as the square of the dimensions while the mass and volume increase as the cube. That is why no flying animal has exceeded about 30 lbs in weight." Enter the problem of the pterodactyl. The pterodactyl weighed, from available evidence, 50 -110 lbs. It was first theorized that the creature could only soar and had to climb up on cliffs to launch itself. However paleontologists have discovered the fossilized footprints of pterodatyls that apparently have taken off from ground level. Frederic B. Jueneman, a Chemist with Stanford Ames, contributes regularly to R&D Magazine, and AEON, he has also authored a book, Raptures of the Deep (and in fact it was he who brought to my attention that we live in a Nitrogen fogged atmosphere that is 78% Nitrogen and obviously suffer from nitrogen narcosis or Raptures of the Deep). In AEON, however he mentions that the pterodactyl had wingspans of 12-15 meters (40-50 feet), comparable to todays small aircraft ranging from 50 - 110 lbs). "Around 1985 two Canadians, paleobiologist Dale Russell of the National Museum of Natural History and aeronautics engineer Parvez Kumar, using computer simulations determined that these creatures could indeed fly by flapping its ungainly bat like membranous wings in an atmosphere at least 50% more dense than what we presently experience on Earth". This throws a monkey wrench into somebody's gear box and I suggest that it throws a monkey wrench into the gearbox of conventional (Newtonian Physics) that holds that gravity is a property of mass. Atmospheric pressure is a result of two things, either the molecular composition of the atmosphere or the gravitational force of the planet or both. For instance Venus has an atmosphere almost 90 times that of Earth (92 bars versus Earths' 1.02 bars), yet it's gravity is only .90 that of Earths. The reason why the Venutian atmosphere is so heavy is because it is 92% carbon dioxide which is heavier than the Earth's nitrogen-oxygen mix. For the Mezozoic Earth to have an atmosphere 50% greater than today's, it either had to have had a heavier chemical constituency (carbon dioxide) or a greater gravity. The present Terran atmospheric pressure is caused by the gravitational forces exerted on the molecular consituents which pull the molecules of air to its surface. (Which raises another issue of why we have weather, with atmospheric highs and lows traveling from West to East, as the Earth rotates from East to West). Enter the dinosaur, those monsters of great bone mass and size. One thing we know is that as gravitational forces diminish, so does the stress load on bones. And a reduction in stress leads to a reduction in bone mass. As stated previously, we have discovered this in our ongoing trips into orbit aboard the space shuttles, and the astronauts have to exercise to place stress on the bones and retain their bone mass. And of course, dentists know this because when we lose teeth we lose bone mass in the jaw. (Could also be a cause of osteoporosis, as when we get older we exercise less and become more sedentiary). The corollary of a reduction in stress as a result of a reduction in gravity leading to a reduction in bone mass is true. An increase in stress as a result of an increase in gravity leads to an increase in bone mass. Hence, the massive size of the Dinosaurs and Sauropods, and of course an increased gravitational field will increase the density of the atmosphere and enanble the pteordactyl to flap its wings and fly. So what could have caused the reduction in the atmospheric pressure that led to the extinction of the dinosaur and pterodactyl? A dampening of the Earth's gravitational field. What would dampen the Earth's gravitational field? A sudden influx of cooling water. Where would such an influx of water come from? The moon and Mars - both of which have water at their poles, and obviously at one time had much more water on their surface. The geologist astronaut Harrison Schmidt, Apollo 17, reported what he surmised to be water marks on the rim of the "crater" (dry lake?) in which he stood. There is certainly water at it's poles now, verified by Lunar Explorer. And there is no question of water on Mars at its poles. So how would the moon and Mars lose its water? The gravitational force of these celestial objects diminished such that they could no longer hold to their surface the atmosphere. We know that at above 50,000 feet blood and water "boils", for that reason pilots and astronauts must wear pressure suits. The gravitational pull of the Earth at the orbit level of the Space Shuttles (about 118 miles) is only .94 that of Earth and thus an object in orbit that weighs 100 Earth lbs, only weighs 94 Earth lbs. (So much for weightlessness). If the gravitational pull of Earth was diminished by 20% (or less) I suggest that the atmosphere would slowly drift off into space, more than likely starting at the Equator (due to the centrifugal force of the Earth - it rotates at 1030 mph at the Equator), and with a decreased atmospheric pressure the water would boil off, like it does at 50,000 ft. Clouds of ice crystals, being slowly attracted to Earth from Mars and the moon would be sufficient to filter out the radiation of the sun for hundreds of thousands of years (in the case of Mars) and tens of thousands of years (in the case of the moon) and provide a mechanism by which the Earth would experience two ice ages. Otherwise there is no mechanism for the ice ages which geologists so much believe in, especially ones that last for hundreds of thousands of years. Is there evidence that the Earth once had a greater gravitational field than it does now? Yes. All one has to do is look at the dinosaur, sauropod and the pterodactyl. Implication: That Newton's three hundred year old Universal Law that gravity is a property of mass is as wrong headed as can be. That gravity is a current force, produced by a physical process is more likely. Especially when one considers the phenomenon of changing and constantly moving atmospheric pressure. After considering all options as to why atmospheric pressure changes over regions, the only thing that really makes sense, is that the gravitational field within the Earth has regions of increased gravity, and is constantly moving counter to the Earth's rotation. Any other explanation requires a containment vessel to hold in either increased pressure produced by heat from the sun's radiation or the inflow of increased molecules of air. That we experience atmospheric highs, even during winter, negates the hypotheses that atmospheric pressure is increased by heating of the air due to radiation from the sun. Still in all we would need a containment vessel to account for such increased atmopsheric pressure. More serious implication: That as the Earth itself goes through the Cooling Continuum, and cools from the outside in, the gravitational force of the Earth will itself diminish and with it all life on Earth. Ridiculous: Ask yourself seriously what happened to the water that was once on Mars and the moon? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 13:53:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA16676; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 13:52:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 13:52:03 -0700 Message-ID: <3621363B.160F@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:50:35 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: another 'scope] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1A04401592F" Resent-Message-ID: <"nRwIx3.0.U44.ofH8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6969 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1A04401592F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All: Steve Heckman wanted me to post this for all interested. Kyle R. Mcallister --------------1A04401592F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from m18.boston.juno.com (m18.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.191]) by fh101.infi.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA31751 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:29:07 -0400 (EDT) From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com Received: (from steve-nyeoka@juno.com) by m18.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DQFAKEQE; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:27:52 EDT To: stk@sunherald.infi.net Subject: another 'scope Message-ID: <19980930.192810.7183.0.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-11 Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:27:52 EDT Kyle, I just picked up at Radio Shack their "Scope Probe" for $29.00. The sales clerk said there were a closeout due to low sales. Origional price was $100. They come with a serial cable and software so any PC with EGA graphics or better can use it. Would be good for data logging. Go ahead and post to the list for me, as they may sell out quickly. Steve ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] --------------1A04401592F-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 15:02:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA03702; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:01:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:01:23 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981011020922.00a1daf0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 02:09:22 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY NOW FORMING... In-Reply-To: <003d01bdf50b$99ef8ae0$fe4b4a0c@dialup.csn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"UwqSY.0.lv.ogI8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6970 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Chris: You should post this on such stuff as New Civilization Network, or the communalist or neo Marxist rings that are forming out there. People have the infinite capacity to never learn from past mistakes and the Utopian hope lingers so deep in so many people, that they believe that they can fantasize their own feelings and beliefs into some mass reality. Lee At 05:37 AM 10/11/98 -0600, you wrote: >Hi Russ, > >I've contemplated this type of idea myself over the years, but decided >against it. The reason is one of basic human nature. Any time you get a >group of people together - even the simplest business partnership - that >group begins to create a heirarchy of power and authority that rapidly >overshadows their reason for joining together in the first place. A power >structure begins to form the minute a group is established; you get the >shepherds who become tyrants, the followers who become whimpy sheep, and >everybody very rapidly loses their focus on why they got together in the >first place. Power and control become the one and only focus within a >matter of hours. It's human nature and barring some evolutionary jump with >respect to the human ego, it will never change under any circumstances. The >pending world crises are not going to be enough to curtail this trait in >people. > >It's sometimes very difficult to consider this aspect of joining together >with others. The lure of knowing the potential of such a group is very >enticing. But in actual practice, people are people and they don't know any >other way to function. They either seek shelter or control - or both - at >the expense of the group. We don't usually factor this into our predictions >of what could be possible. > >Personally I'm all for communicating and cooperating, and I'd be more than >happy to help out these efforts any way I can. But having a group "tied >together" in any ongoing way is suicidal. I don't consider myself as >cynical on this matter, since whatever goal you had in mind is not being >diminished. I'm only negating the mechanics of how you reach it as far as >this particular method. Any goal is achievable. It's only a matter of >certain methods being a guaranteed failure. There are always other methods >to consider. > >This is only my personal opinion, for whatever it's worth. :) > >-- Chris > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 15:06:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA04827; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:03:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:03:28 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981011013415.00a18da0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 12:02:15 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs Resent-Message-ID: <"4VXk42.0.AB1.liI8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6971 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee - > (Which raises another issue of why we have > weather, with atmospheric highs and lows > traveling from West to East, as the Earth > rotates from East to West). Rotates which way? Oh nevermind, you're probably right about that too. Just another scientific dogma we should have challenged a long time ago had any of us been paying attention. I'll just dig up the patio and rebuild it on the east side of the house so I can watch the sunset. :) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 11 15:25:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA10072; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:19:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:19:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981011052259.00a262b0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 05:22:59 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19981011013415.00a18da0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"X1x8B3.0.DT2.jxI8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6972 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:02 PM 10/11/98 -1000, you wrote: >Lee - > > > (Which raises another issue of why we have > > weather, with atmospheric highs and lows > > traveling from West to East, as the Earth > > rotates from East to West). > >Rotates which way? Oh nevermind, you're probably right about that too. Just >another scientific dogma we should have challenged a long time ago had any >of us been paying attention. I'll just dig up the patio and rebuild it on >the east side of the house so I can watch the sunset. :) > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI It depends on one's frame of reference I guess. Perhaps it would be better to say that from the Northpole, the Earth rotates counterclockwise? I can trip overmyself though Done it before will do it again. After all I am a moron and never forget that. Lee :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 12 01:37:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA32475; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 01:32:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 01:32:59 -0700 Message-ID: <003701bdf5b2$765e0960$9ef082c1@pre-installedco> Reply-To: "Duncan PURVIS" From: "Duncan PURVIS" To: Subject: Re: The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:31:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"y8Cx7.0.Lx7.xwR8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6973 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee Surely the presence of dinosaurs and pterodactyls are evidence of the opposite, ie lower gravitational field. They, with their massive bones, could not have supported their own weight in todays gravitational field nor even pump blood to their brains in the case of the brontosaurus and the like. The largest self-supporting land mammal possible today would be 15-20 tons, an agile one would be 8-12 tons (elephant). There is a rule to support this, which I have forgotten, but could refind if necessary. Really enjoy your posts, keep it up. duncan -----Original Message----- From: Lee Markland To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: 11 October 1998 19:36 Subject: The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs >Is there evidence that the Earth once had a greater gravitational field >than it does now? Yes. All one has to do is look at the dinosaur, >sauropod and the pterodactyl. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 12 08:31:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA31299; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:06:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:06:17 -0700 Message-ID: <001601bdf6ba$1522e400$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: [OT] The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:48:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"6IXD12.0.ce7.LhX8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6974 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee, Duncan and All I would like to point out that the majority of dinosaurs were small (below 100Kg). It is easier to find fossils of large dinosaurs and they look much more impressive. The much vaunted Velocoraptor was actually turkey sized. The apparent design of known dinosaur bones seem to point to there being a gravitational force similar to today's. IMHO, the pterodactyl wouldn't have had the wing flexibility to power its flight. The wing needs to be folded up on the upstroke (as all birds do) to generate lift. Recent discoveries point towards birds being the current line of dinosaurs. Flightless dinosaurs have been discovered with non flight feathers in China as well as creatures with most dinosaur characteristics and flight feathers. Even more recently dinosaurs have been discovered with hollow vertebrae as current birds possess. It should be possible to reverse engineer birds into dinosaurs! I have already seen engineered birds that have had teeth instead of beaks and a turkey with a lizard like tail. I fail to understand why there is an upper limit to a creature's size. Can someone explain why? Best regards David Callaghan -----Original Message----- From: Duncan PURVIS >Hi Lee > >Surely the presence of dinosaurs and pterodactyls are evidence of the >opposite, ie lower gravitational field. They, with their massive bones, >could not have supported their own weight in todays gravitational field nor >even pump blood to their brains in the case of the brontosaurus and the >like. The largest self-supporting land mammal possible today would be 15-20 >tons, an agile one would be 8-12 tons (elephant). There is a rule to >support this, which I have forgotten, but could refind if necessary. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 12 09:00:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA19318; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:57:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:57:19 -0700 Message-Id: From: Duncan Purvis Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:57:51 +0000 To: Subject: Re[2]: [OT] The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /221000000/221020552/0/221110198/222140740/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 137e" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id IAA19207 Resent-Message-ID: <"QDCO43.0.lj4.URY8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6975 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi David and Lee and all I was basing my reply on the Holden Limit for animal sizes, but I just found an interesting site which discusses and refutes this theorem. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/sauropods/sauropods-elephants.html hope you find this intersting, I will have to think more about it now, thanks:-) Duncan ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: [OT] The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs Author: MIME:"David Callaghan" at INTERNET Date: 12/10/98 16:22 Hi Lee, Duncan and All I would like to point out that the majority of dinosaurs were small (below 100Kg). It is easier to find fossils of large dinosaurs and they look much more impressive. The much vaunted Velocoraptor was actually turkey sized. The apparent design of known dinosaur bones seem to point to there being a gravitational force similar to today's. IMHO, the pterodactyl wouldn't have had the wing flexibility to power its flight. The wing needs to be folded up on the upstroke (as all birds do) to generate lift. Recent discoveries point towards birds being the current line of dinosaurs. Flightless dinosaurs have been discovered with non flight feathers in China as well as creatures with most dinosaur characteristics and flight feathers. Even more recently dinosau rs have been discovered with hollow vertebrae as current birds possess. It should be possible to reverse engineer birds into dinosaurs! I have already seen engineered birds that have had teeth instead of beaks and a turkey with a lizard like tail. I fail to understand why there is an upper limit to a creature's size. Can someone explain why? Best regards David Callaghan -----Original Message----- From: Duncan PURVIS >Hi Lee > >Surely the presence of dinosaurs and pterodactyls are evidence of the >opposite, ie lower gravitational field. They, with their massive bones, >could not have supported their own weight in todays gravitational field nor >even pump blood to their brains i n the case of the brontosaurus and the >like. The largest self-supporting land mammal possible today would be 15-20 >tons, an agile one would be 8-12 tons (elephant). There is a rule to >support this, which I have forgotten, but could refind if necessary . ------------------------------------------------------------ Scientific Generics Limited Tel: +44 1223 875200 Harston Mill Fax: +44 1223 875201 Harston Cambridge CB2 5NH United Kingdom http://www.generics.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 12 09:23:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA28177; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:19:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:19:33 -0700 From: gvoor@mindspring.com Message-ID: <000a01bdf5fb$4e89ebe0$4df510d1@gregg> To: Subject: Re: [OT] The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:13:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"9Lqib3.0.0u6.JmY8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6976 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It should be possible to reverse engineer birds into dinosaurs! I have >already seen engineered birds that have had teeth instead of beaks and a >turkey with a lizard like tail I would like to see these creatures too. You have a site to go to? etc? gregg v From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 12 11:34:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA20394; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:30:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:30:04 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981012112251.00861790@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:22:51 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: [OT] The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs In-Reply-To: <001601bdf6ba$1522e400$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"aiBpY2.0.G-4.iga8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6978 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: True, many of the dinosaurs were small, just like we have cats and dogs, which incidentally can, because of the square cube ratio, out perform physically larger animals. Like jumping higher, or hauling more weight in relation to their body size. Yet there were the Sauropods and the tyrannosaurus rex. Creatures that couldn't exist in todays environment. And creatures that existed only because of the stress on their bones. The pterodactyl on the other hand could fly, and was evidently able to take off from ground level. Where it was previously thought that it could glide only and had to launch itself from cliffs. I don't see how one can extrapolate "design" to gravitational force. The important thing is in the structure *density* of the bones. I will add to the above, that Joseph Jones, in the 1870's, performed a field survey of the Aboriginal REmains of Tennessee for the Smithsonian (I have a reprint of that survey, you can obtain one as well Sourcebook Project, PO Box 107, Glen Arm, Md 21027). The interesting thing, that puzzled Joseph Jones was that these bones, which he estimated to be 500 years old, were still somewhat intact, although many crumbled when exposed to air. Most were over 6' tall and one, an oldster was over 7' tall. He noted that when he dug down through a mound on a couple of occasions, he dug through the grave of a settler, buried at most 20 years previous, and the bones of the settler were almost totally decomposed, however when he arrived at the bones of the Mt Builders they were still recognizable. Even Mr. Jones admitted, in 1870, that these aborigines obviously had more massive bones than the moderns, as they were able to withstand the ravages of time better. The flightless dinosaurs with non flight feathers are of course a non sequitur :). There is also the Emu and Ostrich who are flightless birds. I suggest that there is sufficient evidence to warrant a rethink of our assumptions and beliefs, and that if anything we owe it to ourselves and our posterity. More than likely though we will do what we do best, play ostrich ourselves Lee At 03:48 PM 10/13/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Lee, Duncan and All > >I would like to point out that the majority of dinosaurs were small (below >100Kg). It is easier to find fossils of large dinosaurs and they look much >more impressive. The much vaunted Velocoraptor was actually turkey sized. >The apparent design of known dinosaur bones seem to point to there being a >gravitational force similar to today's. > >IMHO, the pterodactyl wouldn't have had the wing flexibility to power its >flight. The wing needs to be folded up on the upstroke (as all birds do) to >generate lift. > >Recent discoveries point towards birds being the current line of dinosaurs. >Flightless dinosaurs have been discovered with non flight feathers in China >as well as creatures with most dinosaur characteristics and flight feathers. >Even more recently dinosaurs have been discovered with hollow vertebrae as >current birds possess. > >It should be possible to reverse engineer birds into dinosaurs! I have >already seen engineered birds that have had teeth instead of beaks and a >turkey with a lizard like tail. > >I fail to understand why there is an upper limit to a creature's size. Can >someone explain why? > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Duncan PURVIS > >>Hi Lee >> >>Surely the presence of dinosaurs and pterodactyls are evidence of the >>opposite, ie lower gravitational field. They, with their massive bones, >>could not have supported their own weight in todays gravitational field nor >>even pump blood to their brains in the case of the brontosaurus and the >>like. The largest self-supporting land mammal possible today would be 15-20 >>tons, an agile one would be 8-12 tons (elephant). There is a rule to >>support this, which I have forgotten, but could refind if necessary. > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 12 11:39:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA20273; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:29:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:29:41 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981012100857.0084d790@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:08:57 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs In-Reply-To: <003701bdf5b2$765e0960$9ef082c1@pre-installedco> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"1Bmet3.0.ey4.Kga8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6977 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Duncan I am familiar with that line of thought, actually Ted Holden has written a book about the Saturn effect. Ted is a Velikovskian and is trying to salvage Velikovsky through concocting some scenario in which the gravitational force was diminished in the past. I understand what he believes and why, and have correspondeded with him. These are some facts though that MUST BE CONSIDERED. 1. Decrease gravity and you decrease the stress on bones. A decrease in stress on bones leads to a decrease in bone mass. We know this for a fact. The corollary is also true. We know this for a fact as well (the effects of stress on bones has been measured). 2. An increase in gravitational pull will also increase atmospheric pressure, making the air more viscuous. In addition to which the atmospheric constituency during the Mesozoic was quite different than today. There most assuredly was a higher concentration of co^2. As the English Geologist, Derek Ager, points out in his The New Catastrophism, the atmosphere once had very considerable amounts of co^2, as there is so much of it locked up in limestone throughout the world. It just seems to extrapolate that during the Mesozoic then the ratio of gases in the atmosphere was quite different than it is today and perhaps the heavier co^2 was in more abundance, thus providing more weight and simultaneously an offsetting buoyancy to land based animals. I sue the word buoyancy not to imply that the atmosphere was like water. But to suggest that with a heavier atmosphere (like water in the ocean that permits the whale to live) the increased gravitational pressures would be offset. 3. I predict that we will find further confirmation of this when and if we attempt to colonize Mars or the Moon. Children born there, will first of all have a high mortality rate, as did the experiment with rats born in space recently. Those who survive will grow to adulthood with diminished gravitational stress, hence they will be smaller boned and more frail. I would suspect that they (those born on Mars) will find that they can't return to Earth because of its increased gravitational stress. I of course made no headway with TEd Holden, he after all owns a hypotheses and has written a book. All I can do is point out the corollary of that which he know from experience. Bone mass is lost because of reduced stress, either by teeth extraction, or by astronauts in space, hence the corollary has to be true (and we know that as well) that increased stress increases bone mass. Offsetting the effect would be the fact that an increased gravitational field would also make the air thicker. An analogy is jumping in a swimming pool, of course the atmosphere wouldn't be as thick as water. It is because of the increased atmospheric pressure (heavier air) that the pterodactyl could fly. Ted Holden did not take that into account in developing his hypotheses. Incidentally I have downloaded and printed his exposition about the elephant being the largest land creature possible in the present environment, but (and this is important) he looked only at the present environment and has not considered a heavier, more viscuous, atmosphere. An atmosphere heavy enough for a pterodactyl to fly. All considered however, we are still presented with the verifiable data that a reduction in stress on the bones leads to a reduction in bone mass, and also the corollary of that observation. Lee At 08:31 AM 10/12/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Lee > >Surely the presence of dinosaurs and pterodactyls are evidence of the >opposite, ie lower gravitational field. They, with their massive bones, >could not have supported their own weight in todays gravitational field nor >even pump blood to their brains in the case of the brontosaurus and the >like. The largest self-supporting land mammal possible today would be 15-20 >tons, an agile one would be 8-12 tons (elephant). There is a rule to >support this, which I have forgotten, but could refind if necessary. > >Really enjoy your posts, keep it up. > >duncan > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Date: 11 October 1998 19:36 >Subject: The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs > > > >>Is there evidence that the Earth once had a greater gravitational field >>than it does now? Yes. All one has to do is look at the dinosaur, >sauropod >and the pterodactyl. > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 12 12:44:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA18233; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:40:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:40:43 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000a01bdf5fb$4e89ebe0$4df510d1@gregg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:39:13 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [OT] The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs Resent-Message-ID: <"gzFlQ3.0.mS4.vib8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6979 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gregg - > I would like to see these creatures too. > You have a site to go to? etc? I would like to sell these creatures too. You have a franchise to go to? etc? ;) No, seriously! You think someone isn't going to make a killing selling pet "dinosaurs"? Eventually, in some shape or form, engineered turkeys or whatever, this will happen. Guaranteed. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 12 13:23:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA32256; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:19:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:19:23 -0700 Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:29:40 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19981013030805.353749b2@pop3.friend.ly.net> X-Sender: geet@pop3.friend.ly.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Bob Colvin Subject: RE: [AEF] Occam's Razor Cuts Both Ways Resent-Message-ID: <"CEc5f2.0.ot7.9Hc8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6980 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:24 PM 10/7/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Does anyone know about this GEET Generator mentioned below, or anything >else mentioned? Yes, Paul Pantone recently received a process patent on his GEET fuel processor, go to http://www.geet.com for more information. Bob > >Lee > >> > Cold Fusion is a real phenomenon. It's been tested, reproduced, >> > patented, and is months away from being comercialised. In 1989, >> when >> Who will commercialize the cold fusion ? >> > [Mike.Cottrell-Tribes] > There are a number of companies and researchers working on it. >CETI has a large, American Company as an investor, but they aren't >saying who. They have the patents on the Patterson Power Cell. > > Blacklight Power just got $11M in investment capital from about >a dozen sources to commercialise their products. > > Fiat and Toyota (Toyota was part of a consortium formed to >research Cold Fusion, and they hired Pons and Fleischmann) are working >hard to commercialise their research finds. > > Dr. Paulo Correa (Canadian!!) has a big name investor in his >work. He expects to have a product out next year. (Not exactly Cold >Fusion, but it could be related.) > > GEET has a generator on the market now, and will have a car >conversion kit by next year. The modified Coleman 5KW generator can run >on any fuel, including 50% water solution mixed with a hydrocarbon. > > > > > + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Bob Colvin - GEET of MD/WI + + + + http://www.Friend.ly.Net/GEET + + + + geet@friend.ly.net + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 13 01:29:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA23800; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 01:28:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 01:28:59 -0700 Message-ID: <003301bdf74c$37823fe0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: [OT] The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:20:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ODmGj1.0.op5.Bzm8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6985 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Gregg and All I don't have any web sites yet.... I had watched a UK Equinox TV program the night before. The hollow vertebrae report comes from a recent New Scientist journal. The turkey with the tail I saw on the news about a year ago. Conversely, a scientist on the Equinox program also said the birds have the wrong three digits (toes) to have descended from dinosaurs. By the way, (getting very OT here), if say, for instance, you take the human gene which codes for an eye and insert it into a fly's genome where there would normally be coding for a leg, the fly will grow a FLY'S EYE where the leg would have been. IMO, there will be 'Build Your Own Creature' software in the future, where you stick to together parts on screen before getting your design sequenced into DNA, ready for insertion into a donor egg. -----Original Message----- From: gvoor@mindspring.com >I would like to see these creatures too. You have a site to go to? etc? > >gregg v From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 13 08:41:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA26093; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:37:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:37:07 -0700 Message-ID: <003601bdd8dd$f6831640$428e20a3@hinet.hinet.net> From: "=?big5?B?W6RwpdWkdadAq8dd?=" To: "Free energy" Subject: The free energy...... Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 23:00:09 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0030_01BDD920.EE632DE0"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"94lAY2.0.cN6.ZEt8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6986 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BDD920.EE632DE0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0031_01BDD920.EE632DE0" ------=_NextPart_001_0031_01BDD920.EE632DE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A and B are metallic. We can get the voltage from R1. There are greater voltage if A and B are very large. If man touch one of A and B,the voltage is greater,too.=20 ------=_NextPart_001_0031_01BDD920.EE632DE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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A and B are = metallic.
We can get the voltage = from=20 R1.
There are=20 greater voltage if A and B are very large.
If man touch one of = A and B,the=20 voltage is greater,too.
 
 
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smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA24553; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:59:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:59:30 -0700 Message-ID: <47123C1F.1D64@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 08:56:15 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The free energy...... References: <003601bdd8dd$f6831640$428e20a3@hinet.hinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kTJCv1.0.X_5.X4x8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6987 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: =?big5?B?W6RwpdWkdadAq8dd?= wrote: > > A and B are metallic. > We can get the voltage from R1. > There are greater voltage if A and B are very large. > If man touch one of A and B,the voltage is greater,too. > Can you please explain: Why are D3 and D4 Zenors? What is the value of R1? What voltage appears across R1? What is the size and disposition of the two plates, A and B? SR -- ============================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 13 16:20:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA07485; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:17:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:17:49 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981013064050.00a28150@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:40:50 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: [OT] The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs In-Reply-To: <003301bdf74c$37823fe0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"hWV-x1.0.kq1.S-z8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6988 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Awesome Dave and horrible. Designer soldiers and laborers. Then again the whole concept of Build Your own Creature gives new meaning to the term (excuse me guys) "Dickhead" - ROTFLMFAO. Sorry, but couldn't help it. Maybe they could use the concept to design politicians. Hmm, we've already done that though. Next idea? ;( Lee At 09:20 AM 10/14/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Gregg and All > >I don't have any web sites yet.... I had watched a UK Equinox TV program >the night before. The hollow vertebrae report comes from a recent New >Scientist journal. The turkey with the tail I saw on the news about a year >ago. > >Conversely, a scientist on the Equinox program also said the birds have the >wrong three digits (toes) to have descended from dinosaurs. > >By the way, (getting very OT here), if say, for instance, you take the human >gene which codes for an eye and insert it into a fly's genome where there >would normally be coding for a leg, the fly will grow a FLY'S EYE where the >leg would have been. IMO, there will be 'Build Your Own Creature' software >in the future, where you stick to together parts on screen before getting >your design sequenced into DNA, ready for insertion into a donor egg. > >-----Original Message----- >From: gvoor@mindspring.com >>I would like to see these creatures too. You have a site to go to? etc? >> >>gregg v > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 13 16:20:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA07523; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:17:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:17:51 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981013064646.00a2b2b0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:46:46 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Cold Fusion has gone graphic In-Reply-To: <003601bdd8dd$f6831640$428e20a3@hinet.hinet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"9NH283.0.Hr1.U-z8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6990 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sponsored by Allaire Corporation & ColdFusion 4.0. Up to your eyeballs in Web app development? Register now for a FREE ColdFusion 4.0 Seminar. You'll discover the fastest way to deliver scalable Web apps. To learn more about seminar locations and dates: http://www.allaire.com/cfseminar/ab2wm Imagine that from ignoble science to web commerce. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 13 16:21:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA07508; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:17:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:17:50 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981013064347.00a273a0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:43:47 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Explanation of the Mysterious Force slowing spacecraft Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ChA_g3.0.7r1.T-z8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6989 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Received from a lurker on freenrg Hi Lee -- AAAS stands for the American Association for the Advancement of Science Their weekly magazine carries this story. 9 October 1998 7:00 PM Strange Force on Spacecraft Deflated The mysteriously aberrant motion of the two Pioneer spacecraft in the distant solar system may not be so mysterious after all. Last month, an apparently inexplicable force prompted NASA scientists to speculate that Einstein's theory of general relativity might need some updating, but a new analysis suggests a more mundane cause: tiny gas leaks from the spacecraft control system. Four weeks ago, a team led by John Anderson of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, announced that as the spacecraft travel away from the sun, they have been slowing more than gravity alone can explain, as if a mysterious force were pulling on them (ScienceNOW, 9 September). The team tried to rule out all possible causes, leaving the prospect of a flaw in the laws of physics. But according to team member Philip Laing of the Aerospace Corp. in El Segundo, California, they have now noticed that minor variations in the anomalous speed change seem to have occurred as valves opened and closed during routine adjustments of the spacecraft's spin and orientation--suggesting that gas leaks are braking the craft. The team now suspects that other, more constant gas leaks may account for the bulk of the anomaly. The same process is almost certainly affecting the European Ulysses spacecraft, which also appears to be pulled toward the sun. "Ulysses is leaking all over the place, probably because of sticking valves," says Laing. A few grams of leaking gas per year would be enough to slow the craft. Jonathan Katz of Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri, has another, equally mundane explanation for the effect: He thinks it may be due to waste heat from the radioactive power source aboard the spacecraft. Heat radiation from the generator would be reflected by the backside of the communications antenna on each Pioneer, giving a tiny push toward the sun, says Katz. But Laing doesn't think this is happening. He notes that the radioactive decay of plutonium--and the heat waste--should decrease over time, while the mystery acceleration remained constant between 1980 and 1988. --GOVERT SCHILLING This is in the new or next issue of "Science" magazine. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 13 16:43:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA19588; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:41:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:41:36 -0700 MR-Received: by mta SOCCER; Relayed; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:31:34 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:42:52 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:01:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: Pterodactyl's and Dinosaurs In-reply-to: <3.0.5.32.19981012100857.0084d790@rockisland.com> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:31:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E1786ZXPKRW2MM X400-MTS-identifier: [;43139131018991/3282536@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"Uahcc2.0.-n4.lK-8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6991 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee and entourage, What! Are my eye's deceiving me, can this be our Lee. The same Lee who has valiantly endeavored to keep our brains from being fossilized in the muck of assumptions, dogma and the just plain "that's what the book says, so it's gotta be true" mind set? This can't be the same Lee that keeps repeating in reply after reply: >1. Decrease gravity and you decrease the stress on bones. A decrease in >stress on bones leads to a decrease in bone mass. We know this for a fact. >The corollary is also true. We know this for a fact as well (the effects of >stress on bones has been measured). Just because in a "with all other things being the same" test environment, influence "A" leads to result "B", does NOT mean that ONLY influence "A" can lead to result "B". Take for example the mammoths, most of the fossil record shows them to be about the same size where ever they went, right up until the end. Except for this one island off the coast of Russia where a large group of them got stranded for some reason. I got this from some science program, I can't remember if it was Nova or not. But any ways, this group lasted a couple of thousand years longer than any of it's mainland cousins. But for this group the longer they stayed the smaller they got, until towards the end they were not much bigger than a small horse. Certainly your not going to say that gravity diminished, just on this island, and that's why they got smaller? And that gravity went back to normal after they died off? Wouldn't it have allot more to do with diet, as they slowly depleted the islands resources? And what about immigrants to the U.S.A., from places like India, and consistently their children are taller, and have more bone mass. Your not going to say that gravity is stronger over here are you? No, of course not, again it has a lot more to do with diet. I was going to point out that whales have massive bone structures, but they are supported by water. Where is the stress you are saying is needed for this to occur. But then you would probably say they dive deep, and water pressure is the cause. And then I would reply back that not all of the large whales are deep divers. And you would come back with something else, back and forth, and eventually we would lose track of what we where talking about in the first place. So let's not go there. Just as diet can be shown to be as important an influence now, couldn't it also explain, at least it part, how that eons back some animals could grow to the proportions of T-Rex and his lunchmates. Consider. Back when the world was young there would be allot more minerals in the soil, and that perhaps this would be beneficial to the plants and animals of that time. And as time wore on millions of years of rain, would slowly but surely leach these minerals out of the soil. Not to mention the occasional extinction event, (let's not get into what they were here either) with the attendant floods & hundred year downpours, iceages and otherwise unpleasant weather conditions. And that this now decreased mineral content soil could no longer support some of the types of animals that it could before. And couldn't your pterodactyl simply have much stronger muscles than we have been ASS U ME ing that he had. Or that they had some other feature about them that just didn't survive the fossilization process. Or some event that caused a short term rise in air pressure, (small meteorites, big volcanoes), that would take a few thousand years for the excess pressure to bleed off into space, or to be absorbed into the soil by the plants. But long enough for speciation to kick in and let a pterodactyl forerunner fill in a niche. Just my own too scents worth. Bill ________________________________________________________/////___________ | William E. Briggs Jr. | ~ ~ | | webriggs@concentric.net | -@-@- | |-------------------------|---------------------------ooo--U--ooo--------| | XLN Systems, Inc. |Ideas presented are my own hair brained ideas,| | Columbus, OH |and not the hair brained ideas of my employer.| ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 13 18:20:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA25046; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:18:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:18:25 -0700 Message-ID: <362417A8.6AEF@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:16:56 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: What constitutes an FTL signal? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9papz3.0.876.Wl_8s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6992 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All, I'd like your opinions on this: What makes a signal REALLY a signal? 1. Lets assume that I build a device which can send radio waves with a group velocity exceeding C. (currently impossible) I tap out more code via this setup to a reciever. The time it takes the waves to get from transmitter to reciever is less than the time it takes light to traverse the distance. Is it real FTL? 2. Lets assume I build a device which can send radio waves with a phase velocity exceeding C. Now somehow I figure out a way to modulate these phase waves to send a signal apart from group velocity. (this is currently not possible) I tap out morse code with a speed greater than C. Is this FTL? Many physicists say that it is not FTL unless the front velocity of a wave travels FTL. My definition of a signal is as follows: "A signal is any amount of intelligible information, whether a change in some property of the carrier that implies intelligent control, or any form of modulation that can carry information from a transmitter to a reciever and be deciphered upon reciept. A signal is in no way required to have any property besides the above listed." Anyone care to agree/disagree? Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 13 19:55:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA27285; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:53:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:53:55 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981013083154.00a426d0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:31:54 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: The Pterodactyl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"eRWVV1.0.Fg6.3919s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6993 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: And to that we add the C124 Globemaster which was deemed aerondynamically impossible, but the problem is not only the pterodacytl it is the problem of massive bones in a massive gravitational field. Resorting again to the experience of astronauts and those who lose their teeth. Reduction in bones stress leads to a reduction in bone mass, and of course the corollary is true. Lee At 05:20 PM 10/13/98 -0400, you wrote: >Lee and her entourage, > >Perhaps nobody told the pterodactyl that it couldn't fly? > >Has anybody told the bumblebee yet? > >Bill > > ________________________________________________________/////___________ >| William E. Briggs Jr. | ~ ~ | >| webriggs@concentric.net | -@-@- | >|-------------------------|---------------------------ooo--U--ooo--------| >| XLN Systems, Inc. |Ideas presented are my own hair brained ideas,| >| Columbus, OH |and not the hair brained ideas of my employer.| > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 13 19:57:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA27328; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:54:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:54:00 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981013111248.00a392e0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:12:48 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Pterodactyl's and Dinosaurs In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19981012100857.0084d790@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"vjm3R2.0.qg6.7919s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6994 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:01 PM 10/13/98 -0400, you wrote: >Lee and entourage, > >What! Are my eye's deceiving me, can this be our Lee. > >The same Lee who has valiantly endeavored to keep our brains from being >fossilized in the muck of assumptions, dogma and the just plain "that's >what the book says, so it's gotta be true" mind set? > >This can't be the same Lee that keeps repeating in reply after reply: > > > >>1. Decrease gravity and you decrease the stress on bones. A decrease in >>stress on bones leads to a decrease in bone mass. We know this for a fact. >>The corollary is also true. We know this for a fact as well (the effects of >>stress on bones has been measured). > >Just because in a "with all other things being the same" test environment, >influence "A" leads to result "B", does NOT mean that ONLY influence "A" >can lead to result "B". Snifff, boo hoo Actually am I saying that - oh well Bill. Stick not words in anothers mouth, less they return the favor some time. Methinks thou art setting up a straw(wo)man :) I will though in earnest attempt to deal with your connudrums and exceptions in mature fashion. > >Take for example the mammoths, most of the fossil record shows them to be >about the same size where ever they went, right up until the end. Except >for this one island off the coast of Russia where a large group of them got >stranded for some reason. I got this from some science program, I can't >remember if it was Nova or not. But any ways, this group lasted a couple of >thousand years longer than any of it's mainland cousins. But for this group >the longer they stayed the smaller they got, until towards the end they were >not much bigger than a small horse. Don't have to go to Russia, there are remnants of pygmy elephants even in California. >Certainly your not going to say that gravity diminished, just on this island, >and that's why they got smaller? And that gravity went back to normal after >they died off? Wouldn't it have allot more to do with diet, as they slowly >depleted the islands resources? Not saying that at all. I repeat, in our present gravitational environment there are cats, dogs, rats, creatures large and small. The case you are making is, IMO, a non sequitur. I stated my case that animals like the Sauropods, and Dinosaurs would have grown larger because of the demands placed on their bones by the stress of gravity, that doesn't mean that all such animals would be so large, as in our present gravitational field, not all animals are the size of elephants. > >And what about immigrants to the U.S.A., from places like India, and >consistently>their children are taller, and have more bone mass. Your not going to say >that gravity is stronger over here are you? No, of course not, again it has >a lot more to do with diet. Of course not, as regards height versus bone mass, the only way to test bone mass is to do what Archimedes did when he discovered that water would displace its own weight (The origin of the term Eureka, actually Heureka - I found it) place it in water and see how much water is displaced. Do we grow people to the height of 8 ft these days. Yet they did during the Reign of the tyrant Xerxes (one of his engineers Artachaees, a member of the royal family, stood that tall). Edward I, Longshanks of Braveheart fame, wielded a 6 ft sword and could swing his leg over the back of his Norman Steed (a huge animal) and the Norse were a tall breed indeed. And incidentally I don't think there nutrition was superior to ours, but then again ours is nothing to speak of as we are regularly poisoned by the processed foods regurgitated by the Food Giants (did you know that Puffed Wheat is a toxin). > >I was going to point out that whales have massive bone structures, but they >are supported by water. Where is the stress you are saying is needed for >this to occur. But then you would probably say they dive deep, and water >pressure is the cause. And then I would reply back that not all of the large >whales are deep divers. And you would come back with something else, back >and forth, and eventually we would lose track of what we where talking about >in the first place. So let's not go there. And then look at the skeletal structure of the fish, flismsy things with hardly an mass, and the jelly fish which has no bones at all. Increase the atmospheric pressure and you provide a condition in which the thicker air, acts similar to the water in the ocean. > >Just as diet can be shown to be as important an influence now, couldn't it >also explain, at least it part, how that eons back some animals could grow >to the proportions of T-Rex and his lunchmates. Are you saying that the diet of sauropods (brontosaurus) was better than the diets of say wilderbees and buffalo and that the meat of these creatures provided a better diet for the T Rex. Dino vitamins available on every street corner There is one thing to consider here, and it needs to be considered intellectually, for in truth there is no way to prove it. The brontosaurus or T Rex would not grow so big, nor would they be able to sustain themselves if somehow they appeared on modern Earth. The demands of an increased gravitational field would account for their larger bone mass and size, as well as an increased atmospheric pressure. Venus has an atmosphere 92 bars, Earth is 1.03 bars. Venutian gravity is .90 that of Earth. How would you construct a creature that could survive in the Venutian atmosphere (discounting its heat). Let's take it from a different direction. We colonize Mars and the moon and we have 2nd and 3rd generation Martians and Lunarians. Do you honestly think that these folk will be of the same stature and size as their parents or grandparents? Look what we have learned in just the reduced gravity aboard Mir and the Space Shuttle (roughly .94 that of Earth). Bone loss in reduced gravity. Well Mars (supposedly) has a gravity Equatorial surface gravity (m/sec^2) 3.72 While Earth has an Equatorial surface gravity (m/sec^2) 9.78 thus giving Mars a surface gravity of .38 that of Earth, whilst we all know (supposedly) that the Lunar gravity is .165 that of Earth. Our Bill, ever the hero, volunteers to be one of the first colonists on Mars, and of course his wife volunteers to join him. Almost immediately Bill, Wife and other colonists start to lose bone mass (and dramatically) as the reduced gravitational stress, does not require such huge bone mass. Now we know Bill, that the astronauts lose bone mass, for the same reason that a person with their teeth extracted lose bone mass, diminished stress on the bones. Isn't only logical that this process will continue on Mars or the moon, at a more accelerated rate? Providing that a much weakened (relative to Earth) Bill and Wife (still strong though, having tons of fun erecting monoliths and stonehenges from rocks that would weigh 1000 lbs on Earth but only 380 lbs on Mars, besides all of that exercise is good for the bones, keeps the stress up and reduces the calcium loss. Maybe you and the rest of the crew decided it would be a good think to erect (merely for the exercise) a whole series of megaliths like say at Carnak on the Breton Coast. Through this rigorous program of exercise, you manage to maintain your bone mass or at least a good portion of it, but your children (those who survive childbirth in such a reduced G environment - rats didn't do so well in a .94ge environment), grow to maturity and aren't interested in your Physical Training Regime, nor are they capable of it, having been born in a .38ge. Eventually you become history, vague ancestral memories, and these new Martians decide to revisit Earth. So they hope in a spaceship and return. What do you think they will encounter on their return to Earth, and what do you think they will look like to the Terrans. Diminutive creatures with diminutive skeletal structures, probably experiencing grave difficulties negotiating the environment of Earth. Ok they don't return to Earth. They are left stranded on Mars, and somehow terraform the Landscape extracting oxygen from rocks and water. Time passes, and Bill and his wife are forgotten. Then one day someone, an archaeologist, stumbles upon your buried bones - "There were giants on Mars in those days". And a Martian Lee steps forth and suggests that the bones of this giant developed in a gravitational field much greater than that of Mars, and the new Bill steps forth over twisted pair lines and attempts to ridicule her bodacious and outrageous suggestion >Consider. Back when the world was young there would be allot more minerals >in the soil, and that perhaps this would be beneficial to the plants and >animals of that time. And as time wore on millions of years of rain, would >slowly but surely leach these minerals out of the soil. Not to mention the >occasional extinction event, (let's not get into what they were here either) >with the attendant floods & hundred year downpours, iceages and otherwise >unpleasant weather conditions. And that this now decreased mineral content >soil could no longer support some of the types of animals that it could before. But the minerals are still here Lee, buried in the ground and/or leached into the oceans. Are you suggesting there was, some type of Wheaties, ingested by these monsters of the mesozoic? Perhaps, but enough to account for size on the basis of nutrion alone. I think that extant archaeology has disproven the notion that the ancients (our ancestors) were smaller than us. True the Romans perhaps were diminutive, but the Celts and the Norse were giants compared to them (and us) even Charlemagne stood 6' 4" tall and that was 1200 years ago. > >And couldn't your pterodactyl simply have much stronger muscles than we have >been ASS U ME ing that he had. Or that they had some other feature about >them that just didn't survive the fossilization process. Or some event that >caused a short term rise in air pressure, (small meteorites, big volcanoes), >that would take a few thousand years for the excess pressure to bleed off >into space, or to be absorbed into the soil by the plants. But long enough >for speciation to kick in and let a pterodactyl forerunner fill in a niche. Your suggestion about increasing atmospheric pressure via volcanic activity is certainly a possibility, and indeed it seems the Earth was much more volcanicly active in the Mesozoic. I don't think meteorities have anything to do with it, except perhaps to diminish the number of pterodactyls and sauropods, as they came in contact with them. I find interesting your own suggestion that excess pressure would bleed off into space. That alone is worthy of a good round of discussions. Like for instance, why hasn't the atmosphere of Venus bled off into space, considering that it's own gravity is .90ge.Or is it even now? Venus has cooled significantly since we first started measuring (or is it guesstimating its temperature). I don't have the stats, but it seems that it is in the neighborhood of 10 to 20 degrees. I have to ask a question, which can't be answered, what mix of oxygen to CO^2 is sufficient to sustain life, as we know it. And just where in the hell did all of this nitrogen come from. I keep asking that question and not one expert on the internet has even tried to answer it. I'm wondering, however, if the pterodactyl is a forerunner to anything. I don't think so. I think it went extinct, when the conditions necessary for its existence ceased to exist. Why has the crocodile survived? And why has the pleisosaur (a water animal disappeared). There is evidence of croc's in the Mesozoic (and Lee is a crock as well ), but the croc's of the Mesozoic were bigger than the croc's of today. And the pleiosaur (Nessie of Loch Ness is often thought to be such), lived in an enviroment (ATL - according to Lee), in which the pressures of the waters were greater, and I suggest the oceans were not so deep, nor the land so high - suggesting a maximum depth of 100 ft for oceans and about the same for land. Nor would the oceans be necessarily saline, in fact I would suggest that they weren't and the poor pleiosaur and other large water critters found over time, that their food was much farther down, the water increasingly saline (due to an influx of water, leaching salts out of the land). And although they could survive in the uppermost of a high gravitational fields water atmosphere, they couldn't survive when they had to dive to great depths for the food that now eluded them, or perhaps the salinization of the Earth's waters, or the decrease in CO2, resulted in the interruption of a food chain on which they depended. The asteroid strike hypotheses of dinosaur extinction doesn't wash, when one considers that there are still sharks, but no longer any megadons, or that the giant croc of the Mesozoic disappeared living his smaller, better adapted kin to inherit his kingdom. BTW Bill, I'm not going to lose any sleep, nor suffer any diminishment in my self image, if all of this hypothesizing and speculation is proven, logically, to be false. I don't have my ego wrapped up in this, no Piece Prizes (), no published manuscripts. Nothing. Just an insatiable thirst for knowledge and a hunger for answers, neither of which is forthcoming from the current narrative of the way things are and were. Lee - the Moron > >Just my own too scents worth. > >Bill > > ________________________________________________________/////___________ >| William E. Briggs Jr. | ~ ~ | >| webriggs@concentric.net | -@-@- | >|-------------------------|---------------------------ooo--U--ooo--------| >| XLN Systems, Inc. |Ideas presented are my own hair brained ideas,| >| Columbus, OH |and not the hair brained ideas of my employer.| > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 13 20:22:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA02123; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:10:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:10:21 -0700 Message-ID: <00ad01bdf720$5556adc0$6b5cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: Explanation of the Mysterious Force slowing spacecraft Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:29:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"aFWoN3.0.YW.8O19s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6995 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I figured it would be too good to be true, but it doesn't kill post-relativistic physics. Remember that radio waves still change polarization depending on what part of the galaxy they come from. -- "There are no authorities whatever. No president, academy, court of law, congress or senate on this earth has the power or the knowledge to decide what will be the knowledge of tomorrow." --Dr. Wilhelm Reich From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 13 20:32:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA06854; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:24:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:24:07 -0700 Message-ID: <018e01bdf721$d90e0cc0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: , Subject: Mass Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 01:07:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_012D_01BDF645.D1CA14E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"KVE_g2.0.ve1.za19s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6996 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_012D_01BDF645.D1CA14E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Sorry folks. I just couldn't resist making another pitch that gravity > = >is not a property of mass. Gyroscopes have taught us that spin makes inertia. Inertia IS=20 mass (if inertia is our only way of measuring and defining mass,=20 we may as well say it IS mass.) Spin creates mass by creating=20 inertia.=20 on bones. And a reduction in stress leads to a reduction in bone mass. = As stated previously, we have discovered this in our ongoing trips into = orbit aboard the space shuttles, and the astronauts have to exercise to place stress on the bones and retain their bone mass.=20 Is there some way we could stress our body without continual = excercising, say an application of an electrical field? We know that at above 50,000 feet blood and water "boils", for that = reason pilots and astronauts must wear pressure suits. What happens to our bodies if we reduce pressure just enough to get = hotter, but not boil away? ------=_NextPart_000_012D_01BDF645.D1CA14E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>Sorry folks. I just couldn't resist making another pitch that = gravity=20 > >is not a property of mass.

Gyroscopes have taught us that spin makes inertia. Inertia IS

mass (if inertia is our only way of measuring and defining mass,

we may as well say it IS mass.) Spin creates mass by creating

inertia.

on bones. And a reduction in stress leads to a reduction in bone = mass. As

stated previously, we have discovered this in our ongoing trips into=20 orbit

aboard the space shuttles, and the astronauts have to exercise to = place

stress on the bones and retain their bone mass.

 

Is there some way we could stress our body without continual = excercising, say=20 an application of an electrical field?

 

 

We know that at above 50,000 feet blood and water "boils", = for that=20 reason

pilots and astronauts must wear pressure suits.

 

What happens to our bodies if we reduce pressure just enough to get = hotter,=20 but not boil away?

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_012D_01BDF645.D1CA14E0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 13 21:03:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA24571; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:59:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:59:07 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981013122303.00a4be60@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:23:03 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Mass In-Reply-To: <018e01bdf721$d90e0cc0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"BXIiZ2.0.p_5.A629s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6997 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:07 AM 10/13/98 -0400, you wrote: > >>>is not a property of mass. Gyroscopes have taught us that spin >makes inertia. Inertia IS mass (if inertia is our only way of measuring >and defining mass, we may as well say it IS mass.) Spin creates mass by >creating inertia. Sorry Bill: This is the official (NASA uses it) definition of mass, and one that I reject completely as 1. circular 2. Metaphysical. 3. Terrible English is it puts the noun (quantity) before the adjective (characteristic) ex: A house blue of a neighborhood. Also I would not go so far as to say Inertia IS mass. In reality mass is merely weight. mass (symbol m) A quantity characteristic of a body, which relates the attraction of this body toward another body. on bones. And a reduction in stress leads to a >reduction in bone mass. As stated previously, we have discovered this in >our ongoing trips into orbit aboard the space shuttles, and the astronauts >have to exercise to place stress on the bones and retain their bone mass. > Is there some way we could stress our body without continual excercising, >say an application of an electrical field? "", for that reason pilots >and astronauts must wear pressure suits. What happens to our bodies if we >reduce pressure just enough to get hotter, but not boil away? Astronauts don't wear special suits to stress there bodies. The purpose is to compensate for the diminishment of atmospheric pressure to keep their blood from boiling. It is the diminishment of atmospheric pressure that causes blood to 'boil". I don't think we experience getting hotter, when we go up to altitude. For instance I have been in altitude chambers to the height of 40,000 ft, and all I experienced was hypoxia (lack of oxygen). The reason the blood boils, is that the atmospheric pressure diminishes and thus diminished, it "boils" off. Boiling is the wrong word, though as it has nothing to do with heat. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 13 21:24:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA00782; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:19:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:19:26 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:29:58 -0600 To: freenrg-l From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Additional Corroboration of Joseph Newman's Theory of the Gyroscopic Massergy Resent-Message-ID: <"TBsZ62.0._B.CP29s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6998 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Additional Corroboration of Joseph Newman's Theory of the Gyroscopic Massergy October 13, 1998 To the People of the World: There has been additional verification of my life's work: Note: Prior to the publishing of my work in the late 1970s, culminating with the publication of my fundamental book in 1984, all scientific books stated in essence that: "THE MAGNETIC LINES OF FORCE ARE IMAGINARY." Today it was announced on national news and via the Associated Press that three U.S. physicists were awarded the Nobel Prize for the "discovery that ordinary electrons acting together in STRONG MAGNETIC FIELDS and very low temperatures can CONDENSE INTO NEW TYPES OF COMPOSITE SUBATOMIC PARTICLES THAT FUNCTION AS A FLUID." It is obvious by their own words that the above effect would _not_ occur without the STRONG MAGNETIC FIELDS. Note: On pages 16-18 of my book (The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman) I state repeatedly that current and magnetic fields act as a FLUID. On page 20 I state: "THE MAGNETIC FIELD CONSISTS OF GYROSCOPIC-TYPE PARTICLES WHICH ARE THE MECHANICAL ESSENCE OF E=MC^2 AND REPRESENT AN ORDERLY FLOW OF KINETIC ENERGY." [I am describing the essence of a "FLUID".] The Associated Press article states, "The three men discovered a new form of quantum Fluid ... they (the fluids) can reveal more about the inner structure of matter." The articles also states, "...why this is so important is that it has to do with why the universe is the way it is." Question: Isn't it curious that from pages 1-14 of my book I repeatedly prove that a magnetic field consists of GYROSCOPIC PARTICLES MOVING AND SPINNING AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Then on the first page of Chapter 4 of my book, paragraph 14, I state: "SUCH ENERGY IN THE FORM OF GYROSCOPIC PARTICLES IS THE BASIC BUILDING BLOCK OF ALL MATTER AND PROVIDES THE BASIS FOR THE CONCEPTUAL INTERFACE BETWEEN ENERGY AND MATTER." Up to page 21 I describe how matter and magnetic fields are comprised of GYROSCOPIC PARTICLES and feature a picture of a large, 10,000-lb primitive prototype which I originally constructed to prove the truth of what I have described. On page 21 I state: "I CONSIDER THE TECHNICAL PROCESS TO BE 10,000 TIMES MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE PRIMITIVE, WORKING PROTOTYPES." The recent AP announcement of the three physicists awarded the Nobel Prize for proving that Magnetic Fields (in very cold temperatures) and electrons produces matter proves THE POINT I HAVE MADE ABOVE. Also, refer to Chapter 16 entitled "Gravity", pages 91-95: On page 95 I specifically state: "I SIT IN AWE UPON THE REALIZATION OF THIS INGENIOUS MECHANISM THAT IS SO SIMPLE THAT IT BEFUDDLES THE MIND." Magnetic and Electric Fields are indeed equal. They are one and the same! The basic mechanism of nature is ingenious because all Matter is composed of one type Gyroscopic-Action-Particle. By travelling in varying directions, such particles create a force influence upon one another and thereby cause them to gyrate with respect to one another. As a result, this mechanical action and varying numbers of Gyroscopic Particles then create infinite types of matter. Throughout pages 112-153 of the Chapter entitled "Astronomy", I prove and state on page 116: "IN ESSENCE, EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE MOVES IN ALIGNMENT WITH THE GYROSCOPIC-ACTION-ENTITY COMPOSITION OF THEIR RESPECTIVE ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELDS." On page 140 I state: "THIS BASIC GYROSCOPIC-ACTION-ENTITY PREVAILS THROUGHOUT OUT ENTIRE UNIVERSE AND, IN A MECHANICAL SENSE, IT ELECTROMAGNETICALLY COUPLES THE UNIVERSE INTO A SINGLE ENTITY OR UNIVERSAL ENERGY MACHINE." And from page 281: "IT DOES NOT SEEM IMPROBABLY TO ME THAT THE GYROSCOPIC ENERGY COMPRISING ELECTRICAL AND MAGNETIC FIELDS OF MATTER-IN-MOTION CAN BE UTILIZED IN THE PROPER MATHEMATICAL COMBINATIONS AND PROPORTIONS TO CREATE *ANY* SUBSTANCE IN THE UNIVERSE." Today's AP News announcement of three physicists doing EXACTLY THAT, PROVES MY LIFE'S WORK FOR HUMANITY CORRECT! My book consists of more than 600 pages of truth and conspiracy against you the people by the "old boy network of power brokers." Question: Isn't it curious that you the people know of my life's work for humanity and yet the recent news media and Nobel prize 'alumni' pretend that they know nothing of my life's work for you and humanity? I fight on with the help of a few TRUE FRIENDS and YOU. Question: When will you the People of the World join me in large numbers? I will be demonstrating an operational Energy Machine in Phoenix during the beginning of November. My intent is for individuals to be able to come and view this technology at their convenience. When I am relocated in Phoenix, I will be publishing on the Internet my new telephone and address. I invite everyone to visit me in Phoenix and join me in my service to you and humanity. Love to Humanity, Joseph W. Newman (303) 814-3403 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 13 21:52:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA05853; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:49:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:49:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199810140449.AAA18735@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , Subject: DePalma/Champion Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:48:22 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fGshd2.0.FR1.Rr29s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6999 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Can anyone on the lists supply info or verification of DePalma's demise? Also I thought I noted that someone said something about Joe Champion being in jail,does anyone know why this would be? I found the info at Gravity Gate on DePalmer( spelling in question) to be most fascinating. The question is that I have is how can currents be induced in two manners,both along the axis of rotation of the magnet and a radial propagation outwards from the axis. If these currents are produced without a lenz law reaction which is what the site and diagram seems to indicate, why hasnt this process been widely used. Is there a possibility that it is not overunity? This site is at www.starwon.com.au/~rayd/index.htm Any info would be appreciated Sincerly HDN mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 13 22:29:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA00782; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:19:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:19:26 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:29:58 -0600 To: freenrg-l From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Additional Corroboration of Joseph Newman's Theory of the Gyroscopic Massergy Resent-Message-ID: <"TBsZ62.0._B.CP29s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6998 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Additional Corroboration of Joseph Newman's Theory of the Gyroscopic Massergy October 13, 1998 To the People of the World: There has been additional verification of my life's work: Note: Prior to the publishing of my work in the late 1970s, culminating with the publication of my fundamental book in 1984, all scientific books stated in essence that: "THE MAGNETIC LINES OF FORCE ARE IMAGINARY." Today it was announced on national news and via the Associated Press that three U.S. physicists were awarded the Nobel Prize for the "discovery that ordinary electrons acting together in STRONG MAGNETIC FIELDS and very low temperatures can CONDENSE INTO NEW TYPES OF COMPOSITE SUBATOMIC PARTICLES THAT FUNCTION AS A FLUID." It is obvious by their own words that the above effect would _not_ occur without the STRONG MAGNETIC FIELDS. Note: On pages 16-18 of my book (The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman) I state repeatedly that current and magnetic fields act as a FLUID. On page 20 I state: "THE MAGNETIC FIELD CONSISTS OF GYROSCOPIC-TYPE PARTICLES WHICH ARE THE MECHANICAL ESSENCE OF E=MC^2 AND REPRESENT AN ORDERLY FLOW OF KINETIC ENERGY." [I am describing the essence of a "FLUID".] The Associated Press article states, "The three men discovered a new form of quantum Fluid ... they (the fluids) can reveal more about the inner structure of matter." The articles also states, "...why this is so important is that it has to do with why the universe is the way it is." Question: Isn't it curious that from pages 1-14 of my book I repeatedly prove that a magnetic field consists of GYROSCOPIC PARTICLES MOVING AND SPINNING AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Then on the first page of Chapter 4 of my book, paragraph 14, I state: "SUCH ENERGY IN THE FORM OF GYROSCOPIC PARTICLES IS THE BASIC BUILDING BLOCK OF ALL MATTER AND PROVIDES THE BASIS FOR THE CONCEPTUAL INTERFACE BETWEEN ENERGY AND MATTER." Up to page 21 I describe how matter and magnetic fields are comprised of GYROSCOPIC PARTICLES and feature a picture of a large, 10,000-lb primitive prototype which I originally constructed to prove the truth of what I have described. On page 21 I state: "I CONSIDER THE TECHNICAL PROCESS TO BE 10,000 TIMES MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE PRIMITIVE, WORKING PROTOTYPES." The recent AP announcement of the three physicists awarded the Nobel Prize for proving that Magnetic Fields (in very cold temperatures) and electrons produces matter proves THE POINT I HAVE MADE ABOVE. Also, refer to Chapter 16 entitled "Gravity", pages 91-95: On page 95 I specifically state: "I SIT IN AWE UPON THE REALIZATION OF THIS INGENIOUS MECHANISM THAT IS SO SIMPLE THAT IT BEFUDDLES THE MIND." Magnetic and Electric Fields are indeed equal. They are one and the same! The basic mechanism of nature is ingenious because all Matter is composed of one type Gyroscopic-Action-Particle. By travelling in varying directions, such particles create a force influence upon one another and thereby cause them to gyrate with respect to one another. As a result, this mechanical action and varying numbers of Gyroscopic Particles then create infinite types of matter. Throughout pages 112-153 of the Chapter entitled "Astronomy", I prove and state on page 116: "IN ESSENCE, EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE MOVES IN ALIGNMENT WITH THE GYROSCOPIC-ACTION-ENTITY COMPOSITION OF THEIR RESPECTIVE ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELDS." On page 140 I state: "THIS BASIC GYROSCOPIC-ACTION-ENTITY PREVAILS THROUGHOUT OUT ENTIRE UNIVERSE AND, IN A MECHANICAL SENSE, IT ELECTROMAGNETICALLY COUPLES THE UNIVERSE INTO A SINGLE ENTITY OR UNIVERSAL ENERGY MACHINE." And from page 281: "IT DOES NOT SEEM IMPROBABLY TO ME THAT THE GYROSCOPIC ENERGY COMPRISING ELECTRICAL AND MAGNETIC FIELDS OF MATTER-IN-MOTION CAN BE UTILIZED IN THE PROPER MATHEMATICAL COMBINATIONS AND PROPORTIONS TO CREATE *ANY* SUBSTANCE IN THE UNIVERSE." Today's AP News announcement of three physicists doing EXACTLY THAT, PROVES MY LIFE'S WORK FOR HUMANITY CORRECT! My book consists of more than 600 pages of truth and conspiracy against you the people by the "old boy network of power brokers." Question: Isn't it curious that you the people know of my life's work for humanity and yet the recent news media and Nobel prize 'alumni' pretend that they know nothing of my life's work for you and humanity? I fight on with the help of a few TRUE FRIENDS and YOU. Question: When will you the People of the World join me in large numbers? I will be demonstrating an operational Energy Machine in Phoenix during the beginning of November. My intent is for individuals to be able to come and view this technology at their convenience. When I am relocated in Phoenix, I will be publishing on the Internet my new telephone and address. I invite everyone to visit me in Phoenix and join me in my service to you and humanity. Love to Humanity, Joseph W. Newman (303) 814-3403 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 13 22:35:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA24948; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:33:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:33:46 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:44:22 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"uxwhp3.0.f56.vU39s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7000 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Can anyone on the lists supply info or verification of DePalma's demise? >Also I thought I noted that someone said something about Joe Champion being >in jail,does anyone know why this would be? > I found the info at Gravity Gate on DePalmer( spelling in question) >to be most fascinating. The question is that I have is how can currents be >induced in two manners,both along the axis of rotation of the magnet and a >radial propagation outwards from the axis. If these currents are produced >without a lenz law reaction which is what the site and diagram seems to >indicate, why hasnt this process been widely used. Is there a possibility >that it is not overunity? This site is at >www.starwon.com.au/~rayd/index.htm Any info would be appreciated Sincerly >HDN mnorris@akron.infi.net Dear Mr. Norris, Yes, Bruce DePalma did indeed pass away. I received from him the following letter not long before his death: From: "DePalma Institute" To: "Evan Soule" Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:00:21 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Energy Priority: normal Dear Mr Soule': Thank you for your interest in my work. I seem to recall we had spoken in the past when I was in America. There are two aspects to the treatment of inventors. 1) Inventors who come up with inventions are highly protective of their work, being that they have spent substantial time and money achieving their goal. They know the mendacious amorality of the world of money and business. In order to succeed in this world takes a combination of luck, skill, finance, and a good idea. Only some succeed. 2) Energy, applied through science, motivates the civilized world. It is more basic than money, which is only a paper promise. The inventor is the wild card in the world of finance. A new source of energy could bring down the empire. Yes, I along with Joe Newman and Robert Adams truly know the magnitude of the beast. I make all my ideas public as I see myself more as a basic physical scientist and teacher than an inventor. My solution was to leave the United States to find a place where I was not altogether encouraged but not discouraged. I am much happier here in New Zealand. Thank you for the Email of the two faxes you received. I am not surprised to see the big boys are at work. The handwriting is on the wall. I had read some of Ehrenhaft's work in the past. It shows we don't know all there is to know about light, magnetism and electricity. My theory is that there is no theory. All we know is what we know from experience. My advice to Joe is to go where he might be appreciated. Where he is going and where America is heading are two separate directions. If you need anything from me don't hesitate to ask. Best wishes, Bruce DePalma N.B. God is in charge of this world. The truth is only for those who's ears hear the truth and who's eyes see the truth. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 13 22:51:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA31175; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:50:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:50:11 -0700 Message-ID: <001b01bdf73d$e558a6e0$65277f0a@RobPolley.telusplanet.net> From: "Rob Polley" To: Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:43:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"KO2sP2.0.1d7.Jk39s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7001 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Meat Truck To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; keelynet@dallastexas.net Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 9:56 PM Subject: DePalma/Champion >Can anyone on the lists supply info or verification of DePalma's demise? >Also I thought I noted that someone said something about Joe Champion being >in jail,does anyone know why this would be? > I found the info at Gravity Gate on DePalmer( spelling in question) >to be most fascinating. The question is that I have is how can currents be >induced in two manners,both along the axis of rotation of the magnet and a >radial propagation outwards from the axis. If these currents are produced >without a lenz law reaction which is what the site and diagram seems to >indicate, why hasnt this process been widely used. Is there a possibility >that it is not overunity? This site is at >www.starwon.com.au/~rayd/index.htm Any info would be appreciated Sincerly >HDN mnorris@akron.infi.net > > I was informed by a mutual friend that Bruce DePalma died a few months ago. If you need additional information for some reason I can probably get it, but I would prefer to let him R.I.P. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 13 22:59:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA01398; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:57:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:57:58 -0700 Message-ID: <36243DBF.326187F7@bway.net> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 01:59:27 -0400 From: Khem Caigan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Mass<& bone loss> References: <018e01bdf721$d90e0cc0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"w7KnZ1.0.hL.cr39s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7002 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Bill Wallace wrote: > Is there some way we could stress our body without > continual excercising, say an application of an electrical > field? It's possible. You might want to take a look at this page from Dr. Marino's Site at http://www.ortho.lsumc.edu/Faculty/Marino/IUPS.html And there's an online book available that deals with this subject & much more, written by Drs. Marino & Becker, at: http://www.ortho.lsumc.edu/Faculty/Marino/EL/ELTOC.html Incidentally, Dr. Becker independently verified the effect of ionic/colloidal silver's antibiotic properties. He writes about it in his book, 'The Body Electric: Electromagnetism and the Foundation of Life',1987,Wm. Morrow/Quill books,ISBN 0-688-06971-1. The book also explores the EM dynamics of boneloss/growth, among other things. --Khem Caigan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 13 23:21:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA07949; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:20:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:20:07 -0700 Message-ID: <053601bdf73a$884db600$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: [OT] The problem of the Pterodactyl and the Dinosaurs Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:07:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"i8MBk3.0.4y1.MA49s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7003 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What do you think would be some neat things to do? A cat that barks? How about a horse with wings? A human with gills or armadillo armor? Why not both? Great military application here. >Hi Gregg and All > >I don't have any web sites yet.... I had watched a UK Equinox TV program >the night before. The hollow vertebrae report comes from a recent New >Scientist journal. The turkey with the tail I saw on the news about a year >ago. > >Conversely, a scientist on the Equinox program also said the birds have the >wrong three digits (toes) to have descended from dinosaurs. > >By the way, (getting very OT here), if say, for instance, you take the human >gene which codes for an eye and insert it into a fly's genome where there >would normally be coding for a leg, the fly will grow a FLY'S EYE where the >leg would have been. IMO, there will be 'Build Your Own Creature' software >in the future, where you stick to together parts on screen before getting >your design sequenced into DNA, ready for insertion into a donor egg. > >-----Original Message----- >From: gvoor@mindspring.com >>I would like to see these creatures too. You have a site to go to? etc? >> >>gregg v > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 13 23:35:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA14335; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:33:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:33:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199810140639.QAA26033@pegasus.com.au> Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion Date: Wed, 14 Oct 98 16:36:38 +0900 x-sender: nexus@mail.peg.apc.org x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v2, June 6, 1997 From: To: , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"hV4MX3.0.qV3.ZM49s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7004 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Can anyone on the lists supply info or verification of DePalma's demise? >Also I thought I noted that someone said something about Joe Champion being >in jail,does anyone know why this would be? Bruce DePalma died a couple of years ago in New Zealand. While he may have had some amazing scientific insights, he certainly did not extend his intelligence to how he treated his body and his health. I recall that Borderland Science magazine may have done an obit some time back. Otherwise, check KeelyNet in case they have an obit on file. regards Duncan Duncan M. Roads Editor, Nexus Magazine PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia Tel: +61 (0)7 5442 9280; Fax: +61 (0)7 5442 9381 http://www.peg.apc.org/~nexus/ "The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the means. On the contrary, the means always determine the end." (Aldous Huxley) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 04:17:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA28208; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 04:15:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 04:15:41 -0700 Message-ID: <003a01bdd982$94332e80$0100007f@hinet.hinet.net> From: "Small White Office" To: "Free energy" Subject: About how to explain the cirtuit...... Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:37:44 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0035_01BDD9C5.A2566E80"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"M-EPC2.0.du6.RV89s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7005 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BDD9C5.A2566E80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0036_01BDD9C5.A2566E80" ------=_NextPart_001_0036_01BDD9C5.A2566E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Original circuit what I made is: A and B are different places where are far between them. The earth icludes a lot of "e -".But many places have "e -" unequally. When place A with "e -" more than place B, many "e -" will run from A to = B and pass D1, R1, and D4. =20 When place B with "e -" more than place A, many "e -" will run from B to = A and pass D3, R1, and D2. So we can get the voltage of DC from R1. As for the size of D1, D2, D3, and D4,it is an important that their = freqency are must up more to 60Hz . As for the freqency of D1, D2, D3, and D4,it must goes with AC which we = use in house. As for the R1, it just used to consume "w".We can replace it to lighter = of lowly comsuming "w". As for the circuit which I mailed before, I did not know how to explain = it clearly. You can mail the circuit to the other and ask them. I am so Sorry that I can't explain to you! Thanks a lot for your mail. =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0036_01BDD9C5.A2566E80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Original circuit what I made is:3D""=20
A and B are different places where are far between=20 them.
The earth icludes a lot of  "e -".But = many=20 places have "e -" unequally.
When place A with "e -" more than place B, = many=20 "e -" will run from A to B and pass  D1, R1, and =20 D4.  
When place B with "e -" more than place A, = many=20 "e -" will run from B to A and pass  D3, R1, and =20 D2.
So we can get the voltage of DC from = R1.
As for the  size of D1, D2, D3, and D4,it is an = important=20 that their freqency are must up more to 60Hz .
As for the = freqency of D1,=20 D2, D3, and D4,it must goes with AC which we use in house.
As for the R1, it just used to  consume = "w".We=20 can replace it to lighter of lowly comsuming "w".
 
As for the circuit which I mailed before, I did not = know how=20 to explain it clearly.
You can mail the circuit to the other and ask=20 them.
I am so Sorry that I can't explain to = you!
Thanks a lot for your mail.
 
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gAooAKKACigAooAKKACigAooAKKACigAooAKKACigAooAKKACigArwKgD32igAooAKKACigAooAK KACigAooAKKACigAooAKKACigAooAKKACigAooAKKACigAooAKKACvAqAPfaKACigAooAKKACigA ooAKKACigAooAKKACigAooAKKACigAooAKKACigAooAKKACigAooAK8CoA99ooAKKACigAooAKKA CigAooAKKACigAooAKKACigAooAKKACigAooAKKACigAooAKKACigArwKgD/2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BDD9C5.A2566E80-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 06:04:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA21758; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:02:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:02:31 -0700 From: UNIR2B1@aol.com Message-ID: <13122b25.3624a0f3@aol.com> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:02:43 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: markland@rockisland.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: 'PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY NOW FORMING' Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"1-EgO3.0.hJ5.c3A9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7006 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Lee-- You mentioned the New Civilization Network. Could you perhaps furnish an email address, so I can subscribe? (Due to an unusual computer problem, I cannot browse right now, only email.) It would be interesting to see whether, among all the communalists, Marxists and other '-ists' out there, I might encounter any *pragmatists* that would like to relocate in order: 1) to be in a less populous area as a preparatory measure against social disorder in the event of simultaneous possible disruptions of various societal systems now taken for granted, resulting from Y2K and/or environmental, geomagnetic, solar and astronomic perturbations; and 2) to convene with others wish to build a more self-sufficient lifestyle incorporating proven advances over the status quo, which is characterized by chronic dependency on toxic, wasteful, and bakward methods. Thanks. --Russ UNIR2B1@aol.com Original message: PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY NOW FORMING... ...on 40 wooded acres between two rural, dead-end roads. Geographically, this area of the southeastern US is a 'safe zone' according to various "future maps" that juxtapose prophecy with tectonic, topological and geomagnetic data. Situated at the southern end of Lookout Mt., this land overlies a high water table; the level of our well remained constant even through a recent, protracted dry spell. This acreage is also a jumping-off point to a vast wilderness (deer and other wildlife roam the vicinity). Should the need arise to "take to the hills," the original Appalachian Trail fortuitously begins right behind our property! Additionally, this area is a spelunker's Mecca, and some of us are currently scouting to provision a nearby cave. We are predicating our "intentional community" on faith that is rational, optimism that is realistic. We're seeking partners diverse in their views and backgrounds, but like-minded in their dedication to personal and collective progress. Leaving fanatics and dogmatists to the confines of their cults, we are focusing on human evolution. Beginning with exigent concerns like establishing survival stores, we hope to quickly deploy exciting and tenable long-term solutions to all forms of dependency. Initial plans include water enhancement techniques, spirulina cultivation, composting & vermiculture, hydroponics, and alternative energy (we expect to generate novel contributions to most of these arts). Beyond these projects, however, we are evaluating innovative methods of converting various energy forms *directly* into human and plant vitality, and pursuing loftier concerns like interdimensional "consciousness expansion" (of which we have gained some definitive and rather exclusive knowledge). Although self-sufficiency and isolation from marauders are essential for surviving a worst-case millennium transition, we are emphasizing preparedness against a *particular* ramification of societal collapse: dissociation from fellow minds. Travel restrictions, telecommunication disruption, etc. will threaten, above all, the ability of the forward-looking people to brainstorm and collaborate. We regard the right mix of people not only as the greatest survival resource, but also the most essential ingredient for abundant and meaningful living. Therefore, we envision a microcosm wherein civilization itself could progress even in seclusion. Such an assemblage requires people of conscience and learning; self-governing and communicative, with an aptitude for creative and interactive thinking. Although the most cutting- edge discoveries are now pointing toward natural, low-tech means of tapping subtler energies, lab equipment is also needed for apprehending and verifying those discoveries. This is not a solicitation to join a regimented community, but an opportunity to create an enterprise--a haven for intellectual and spiritual freedom and productivity. Ayn Rand wrote: "Don't say, 'Life isn't like that;' ask yourself whose." We see the current human predicament not merely as a signal to retreat to hoarding, but as a call to advance beyond the need of it. If privation is mankind's looming threat, let's fight it by discovering, utilizing, refining and promulgating new keys to plenitude. ...But time is short for organizing a fully proactive response; so if these aspirations resonate with your own, please don't delay in contacting us. Sincerely, Russ Rosser UNIR2B1@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 06:12:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA25300; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:10:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:10:46 -0700 Message-ID: <36249670.2153A4D6@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:17:52 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The free energy...... References: <003601bdd8dd$f6831640$428e20a3@hinet.hinet.net> <47123C1F.1D64@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Jz2Tp1.0.DB6.MBA9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7007 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stuart Rae wrote: > > =?big5?B?W6RwpdWkdadAq8dd?= wrote: > > A and B are metallic. > > We can get the voltage from R1. > > There are greater voltage if A and B are very large. > > If man touch one of A and B,the voltage is greater,too. > > Can you please explain: > > Why are D3 and D4 Zenors? > > What is the value of R1? > > What voltage appears across R1? > > What is the size and disposition of the two plates, A and B? > I think what he was trying to say is that A and B are metal objects (preferably large, maybe contacting water). I have worked with him sometimes, and we try various setups. It happened that zener diodes worked better than normal diodes (for D3 & D4). I don't know why. About the value of R1, the larger the more voltage existed across R1 (I think). He had used capacitors(in place of R1) to store the energy collected and periodically discharged it to LEDs. I hope this helps. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 06:24:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA28240; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:18:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:18:47 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981011083557.00793ac0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:35:57 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Mass In-Reply-To: <018e01bdf721$d90e0cc0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"t5Yws3.0.3v6.sIA9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7008 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Sorry folks. I just couldn't resist making another pitch that gravity > >is not a property of mass. Gyroscopes have taught us that spin makes inertia. Inertia IS mass (if inertia is our only way of measuring and defining mass, we may as well say it IS mass.) Spin creates mass by creating inertia. Inertia is not a property of spin. Inertia is a neutral when regarding it in reference to motion. Inertia is an simply a property of mass in that a body exhibiting mass will resist a change in motion. Any change, slowing or speeding up of the body. The inertia relative to a body in motion in spin about an axis is there by not effected by the spin but the relative speeds. It takes just as much energy to speed up the spin of the total mass of body in motion as it does to effect an equal amount of reduction in that speed. Thus V, velocity is directly proportional to F, force and M, mass remains a constant. on bones. And a reduction in stress leads to a reduction in bone mass. As stated previously, we have discovered this in our ongoing trips into orbit aboard the space shuttles, and the astronauts have to exercise to place stress on the bones and retain their bone mass. In this discussion we fail to look at bone as a living thing. As when we are infants our bones are mostly cartilage like in nature. The laying down of calcium in the bone structure may most accurately be looked at as a scaring do to stress placed on this material. As tiny stress fractures if you will, are sent through the tissue. The bone responds by strengthening along these lines of stress. To balance this process our bodies are always reabsorbing a certain amount of this calcium. When we see this process go awry, is when the conditions of bone development are altered as in sedentary individuals. This correlation of use and the development of bone mass is clearly shown in the study of major league pitchers, in that there throwing arm will show 30 to 40% greater bone mass then their non pitching arm. Is it any wonder that the group of individuals exhibiting the greatest amount of bone loss in our society are women, who albeit cultural or social, place less stress on their skeletal structure. This is also reinforced in cultures that have a more even distribution of labor in their society, where the women of the culture exhibit no such disparency of bone loss. This is also made evident in the teeth. Cultures that regularly consume hard nuts or seeds exhibit a high degree of dental health, as found in many ancient cultures of the American mid west. Is there some way we could stress our body without continual exercising, say an application of an electrical field? Shock as in forceful stress applied to the bone, may prove more beneficial, therefor I would suggest sound waves as a more suitable way to induce stress on the bone structures of astronauts. It may also be that, a box of jaw breakers may do more for the heath of your children's teeth, that any trip to the dentist. We know that at above 50,000 feet blood and water "boils", for that reason pilots and astronauts must wear pressure suits. What happens to our bodies if we reduce pressure just enough to get hotter, but not boil away? The boiling points of liquids are a result of temperature and pressure. Water boils at 212' F. at sea level and at 100` F at 55,000' elevation. It is the dual effect of pressure and heat, on maintaining liquid states that seems to not be understood here. Not that the liquid gets any hotter at elevation, but rather that the pressure, that is of equal importance to maintaining a gas in a liquid state, is reduced. I say gas, because if it were not for the effects of gravity, the water of this planet would revert to it's more natural state as a gas. Liquid water, at the surface of the planet, is an unnatural state induced by pressure. This gets us back to a question of Lee Markland's, "where has all the liquid water gone on mars and the moon". In the case of the moon, ice, maintained by the extremely low temperatures of the polar regions of the moon could, be sustained. Heavy enough then, to be captured by the minimal gravity of the moon. On Mars, the absence of liquid water is more suggestive of the lack of volcanic activity. The last evidence of volcanic activity on Mars is about 90 million years ago. The speculation is that the source of the replenishment of the gaseous constituent materials of water, hydrogen and oxygen, a result volcanic activity, meant that the atmosphere of mars simply vaporized. This is a long standing argument of science, in that, are atmospheres captured, or dragged by gravity from space, or created by the planet through volcanic activity. Upon review of these two neighboring planets, I would opt for the later. TR Knudtson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 06:37:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA32676; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:34:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:34:06 -0700 Message-ID: <3624D04C.4CBB@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:24:44 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion References: <199810140449.AAA18735@fh102.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"r_EmG1.0.T-7.DXA9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7009 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Meat Truck wrote: > > Can anyone on the lists supply info or verification of DePalma's demise? > Also I thought I noted that someone said something about Joe Champion being > in jail,does anyone know why this would be? > I found the info at Gravity Gate on DePalmer( spelling in question) > to be most fascinating. The question is that I have is how can currents be > induced in two manners,both along the axis of rotation of the magnet and a > radial propagation outwards from the axis. If these currents are produced > without a lenz law reaction which is what the site and diagram seems to > indicate, why hasnt this process been widely used. Is there a possibility > that it is not overunity? No, Depalma's N-Machines do not violate or escape Lentz's law, and have been proven not to be overunity. Nature's trick here is that the external circuit connected across the disk suffers its reaction rather than any component of the generator itself, as it usually the case. > This site is at > www.starwon.com.au/~rayd/index.htm Any info would be appreciated Sincerly > HDN mnorris@akron.infi.net Homopolar generators, like the N-Machine are used commercially to generate high current, low voltage power for use in ship degaussing and other application. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 08:23:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA03672; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:18:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:18:14 -0700 Message-ID: <000601bdf78d$364ce3a0$65277f0a@RobPolley.telusplanet.net> From: "Rob Polley" To: Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:10:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Z5Fkb1.0.Hv.r2C9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7010 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bill, I thought you might find this interesting. -----Original Message----- From: Evan Soule To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 10:39 PM Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 >>Can anyone on the lists supply info or verification of DePalma's demise? >>Also I thought I noted that someone said something about Joe Champion being >>in jail,does anyone know why this would be? >> I found the info at Gravity Gate on DePalmer( spelling in question) >>to be most fascinating. The question is that I have is how can currents be >>induced in two manners,both along the axis of rotation of the magnet and a >>radial propagation outwards from the axis. If these currents are produced >>without a lenz law reaction which is what the site and diagram seems to >>indicate, why hasnt this process been widely used. Is there a possibility >>that it is not overunity? This site is at >>www.starwon.com.au/~rayd/index.htm Any info would be appreciated Sincerly >>HDN mnorris@akron.infi.net > >Dear Mr. Norris, > >Yes, Bruce DePalma did indeed pass away. I received from him the following >letter not long before his death: > > >From: "DePalma Institute" >To: "Evan Soule" >Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:00:21 +1200 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Subject: Energy >Priority: normal > >Dear Mr Soule': > >Thank you for your interest in my work. I seem to recall we had spoken in >the past when I was in America. > >There are two aspects to the treatment of inventors. > >1) Inventors who come up with inventions are highly protective of >their work, being that they have spent substantial time and money achieving >their goal. They know the mendacious amorality of the world of money and >business. In order to succeed in this world takes a combination of luck, >skill, finance, and a good idea. Only some succeed. > >2) Energy, applied through science, motivates the civilized world. It >is more basic than money, which is only a paper promise. The inventor is >the wild card in the world of finance. A new source of energy could bring >down the empire. > >Yes, I along with Joe Newman and Robert Adams truly know the magnitude of >the beast. > >I make all my ideas public as I see myself more as a basic physical >scientist and teacher than an inventor. > >My solution was to leave the United States to find a place where I was not >altogether encouraged but not discouraged. I am much happier here in New >Zealand. > >Thank you for the Email of the two faxes you received. I am not surprised >to see the big boys are at work. The handwriting is on the wall. > >I had read some of Ehrenhaft's work in the past. It shows we don't know >all there is to know about light, magnetism and electricity. > >My theory is that there is no theory. All we know is what we know from >experience. My advice to Joe is to go where he might be appreciated. >Where he is going and where America is heading are two separate directions. > >If you need anything from me don't hesitate to ask. > > >Best wishes, > > >Bruce DePalma > > >N.B. God is in charge of this world. The truth is only for those who's >ears hear the truth and who's eyes see the truth. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 11:58:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA09936; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:55:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:55:08 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981014025226.00a2b790@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:52:26 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion In-Reply-To: <3624D04C.4CBB@tiac.net> References: <199810140449.AAA18735@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"6YNOU3.0.2R2.BEF9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7014 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:24 AM 10/14/98 -0700, you wrote: >Meat Truck wrote: >> >> Can anyone on the lists supply info or verification of DePalma's demise? >> Also I thought I noted that someone said something about Joe Champion being >> in jail,does anyone know why this would be? >> I found the info at Gravity Gate on DePalmer( spelling in question) >> to be most fascinating. The question is that I have is how can currents be >> induced in two manners,both along the axis of rotation of the magnet and a >> radial propagation outwards from the axis. If these currents are produced >> without a lenz law reaction which is what the site and diagram seems to >> indicate, why hasnt this process been widely used. Is there a possibility >> that it is not overunity? > >No, Depalma's N-Machines do not violate or escape Lentz's law, and have >been proven not to be overunity. Nature's trick here is that the >external >circuit connected across the disk suffers its reaction rather than any >component of the generator itself, as it usually the case. > >> This site is at >> www.starwon.com.au/~rayd/index.htm Any info would be appreciated Sincerly >> HDN mnorris@akron.infi.net > >Homopolar generators, like the N-Machine are used commercially to >generate >high current, low voltage power for use in ship degaussing and other >application. Then what about Hendershot's homopolar generator. It short circuited in a tragic accident and electrocuted him. Hendershott was plagued by a professional debunker, a Randi the magician type, name of Hochstetter. This curious little man with no obvious means of support, followed Hendershott around the country, and would show up at demonstrations disrupting him. Hochstetter claimed that Hendershott powered his homopolar generator with a battery. In truth he got it started with a small battery, but once going it ran itself. Hochstetter even hung around outside Hendershots house, loitering under the lampost. I suspect he was funded by the likes of J.P. Morgan or Rockefeller, elsewise he couldn't have afforded to haunt him. The coup de etat though was when Hendershot, in that tragic accident, electrocuted himself, a pretty good accomplishment for a battery operated machine. Hendershott's son is trying to carry on the work by the way. A book of interest is The Homopolar Handbook, Thomas Valone, Integrity Research Inst, 1377 K St Nw,Suite 204, Wash, DC 20005 The N in N Machine stands for N applications. The Handbook has also a letter from Stefan Marinov, as concerns his Perpetuum Mobile machine. Marinov also died recently, supposedly he strangled him self to death with a hose (not a hanging). Also an interesting discussion about Adam Tromblay, who had developed a design, and a brush that was confiscated by the U.S.Navy. The Tromblay device suffered a "uniaxle breakdown" the metal core was powdered after the experiment. I understand that another researcher name of Hutchinson is discovering the same effect, including the "melding" of disparate materials, such as glass and iron or wood and iron. Much the same effect I noticed in the aftermath of tornado's when I lived in Oklahoma (2'4's "driven" completely through RR girders or a 2x4 piece wood "embedded" in glass. Supposedly driven through the glass or the girder which suspended the RR overpass, without breaking it, by wind force alone. Yeh, sure. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 11:59:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA09767; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:54:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:54:59 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981014014427.00a19b50@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 01:44:27 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: 'PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY NOW FORMING' In-Reply-To: <13122b25.3624a0f3@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"JLm1z3.0.MO2.2EF9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7011 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'm not into the New Civilization Network - too full of "woo woo's" and closet Marxists. I am however in contact with an individual that does interface with them. Name of Paul Swann, an activist from England, much convinced that the number one problem is money, more specifically the money problem. I think my quote of Nathan Rothschild sunk in: "I don't care who makes the laws, so long as I control the money of the Nation". He also said that there are but a handful of people that truly understand money. Thanks to the internet though, there are more than a handful these days. If you Email me seperatedly I can give you his personal EMail address. Paul is also very concerned about the Y2K problem and he recently trounced Fleming Funch, who seems to be the driving engine behind NCN, over the Y2K problem. http://worldtrans.org I've had some discussions with some of the NCN members, intermediated by Paul Swann, and frankly see no hope or anything of value from them. They are long on hand wringing, moaning and euphemisms, short on clarity and very hesitant to define what it is they mean when they use such phrases as "rewarding social behavior" or values, etc. They have not the least understanding of money and seem to resort to either some false economic theory or notion, or try to invent their own. One of them tried to sell the idea that competition is an illusion, and that we humans were essentially cooperative (translated: meek herd animals). Competition is the essence of humanity, but we are also pack animals and cooperative. The two qualities are not mutually exclusive - hence teamwork. The sublimation of the human ego, leads eventually to a mass mentality like China, for instance, in which all think the thoughts of the leader, and resistance is futile. Lots of luck in finding a pragmatist there. Lee At 09:02 AM 10/14/98 EDT, you wrote: >Hi, Lee-- > >You mentioned the New Civilization Network. Could you perhaps furnish an >email address, so I can subscribe? (Due to an unusual computer problem, I >cannot browse right now, only email.) It would be interesting to see whether, >among all the communalists, Marxists and other '-ists' out there, I might >encounter any *pragmatists* that would like to relocate in order: 1) to be in >a less populous area as a preparatory measure against social disorder in the >event of simultaneous possible disruptions of various societal systems now >taken for granted, resulting from Y2K and/or environmental, geomagnetic, solar >and astronomic perturbations; and 2) to convene with others wish to build a >more self-sufficient lifestyle incorporating proven advances over the status >quo, which is characterized by chronic dependency on toxic, wasteful, and >bakward methods. Thanks. > >--Russ >UNIR2B1@aol.com > >Original message: > >PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY NOW FORMING... > >...on 40 wooded acres between two rural, dead-end roads. Geographically, >this area of the southeastern US is a 'safe zone' according to various "future >maps" that juxtapose prophecy with tectonic, topological and geomagnetic >data. Situated at the southern end of Lookout Mt., this land overlies a high >water >table; the level of our well remained constant even through a recent, >protracted dry spell. This acreage is also a jumping-off point to a vast >wilderness (deer and other wildlife roam the vicinity). Should the need >arise to "take to the hills," the original Appalachian Trail fortuitously >begins >right behind our property! Additionally, this area is a spelunker's Mecca, >and some of us are currently scouting to provision a nearby cave. > >We are predicating our "intentional community" on faith that is rational, >optimism that is realistic. We're seeking partners diverse in their views >and backgrounds, but like-minded in their dedication to personal and >collective >progress. Leaving fanatics and dogmatists to the confines of their cults, we >are focusing on human evolution. Beginning with exigent concerns like >establishing survival stores, we hope to quickly deploy exciting and tenable >long-term solutions to all forms of dependency. Initial plans include water >enhancement techniques, spirulina cultivation, composting & vermiculture, >hydroponics, and alternative energy (we expect to generate novel >contributions to most of these arts). Beyond these projects, however, we are >evaluating >innovative methods of converting various energy forms *directly* into human >and plant vitality, and pursuing loftier concerns like interdimensional >"consciousness expansion" (of which we have gained some definitive and rather >exclusive knowledge). > >Although self-sufficiency and isolation from marauders are essential for >surviving a worst-case millennium transition, we are emphasizing preparedness >against a *particular* ramification of societal collapse: dissociation from >fellow minds. Travel restrictions, telecommunication disruption, etc. will >threaten, above all, the ability of the forward-looking people to brainstorm >and collaborate. We regard the right mix of people not only as the greatest >survival resource, but also the most essential ingredient for abundant and >meaningful living. Therefore, we envision a microcosm wherein civilization >itself could progress even in seclusion. Such an assemblage requires people >of conscience and learning; self-governing and communicative, with an >aptitude for creative and interactive thinking. Although the most cutting- >edge >discoveries are now pointing toward natural, low-tech means of tapping >subtler energies, lab equipment is also needed for apprehending and verifying >those >discoveries. > >This is not a solicitation to join a regimented community, but an opportunity >to create an enterprise--a haven for intellectual and spiritual freedom and >productivity. Ayn Rand wrote: "Don't say, 'Life isn't like that;' ask >yourself whose." We see the current human predicament not merely as a signal >to retreat to hoarding, but as a call to advance beyond the need of it. If >privation is mankind's looming threat, let's fight it by discovering, >utilizing, refining and promulgating new keys to plenitude. ...But time is >short for organizing a fully proactive response; so if these aspirations >resonate with your own, please don't delay in contacting us. > >Sincerely, >Russ Rosser >UNIR2B1@aol.com > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 12:00:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA09974; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:55:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:55:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981014021040.00a28100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:10:40 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 In-Reply-To: <000601bdf78d$364ce3a0$65277f0a@RobPolley.telusplanet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Umnt51.0.tP2.6EF9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7013 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:10 AM 10/14/98 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Bill, > >I thought you might find this interesting. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Evan Soule >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 10:39 PM >Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 > > >>>Can anyone on the lists supply info or verification of DePalma's demise? >>>Also I thought I noted that someone said something about Joe Champion >being >>>in jail,does anyone know why this would be? >>> I found the info at Gravity Gate on DePalmer( spelling in question) >>>to be most fascinating. The question is that I have is how can currents be >>>induced in two manners,both along the axis of rotation of the magnet and a >>>radial propagation outwards from the axis. If these currents are produced >>>without a lenz law reaction which is what the site and diagram seems to >>>indicate, why hasnt this process been widely used. Is there a possibility >>>that it is not overunity? This site is at >>>www.starwon.com.au/~rayd/index.htm Any info would be appreciated Sincerly >>>HDN mnorris@akron.infi.net >> >>Dear Mr. Norris, >> >>Yes, Bruce DePalma did indeed pass away. I received from him the following >>letter not long before his death: >> >> >>From: "DePalma Institute" >>To: "Evan Soule" >>Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:00:21 +1200 >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>Subject: Energy >>Priority: normal >> >>Dear Mr Soule': >> >>Thank you for your interest in my work. I seem to recall we had spoken in >>the past when I was in America. >> >>There are two aspects to the treatment of inventors. >> >>1) Inventors who come up with inventions are highly protective of >>their work, being that they have spent substantial time and money achieving >>their goal. They know the mendacious amorality of the world of money and >>business. In order to succeed in this world takes a combination of luck, >>skill, finance, and a good idea. Only some succeed. >> >>2) Energy, applied through science, motivates the civilized world. It >>is more basic than money, which is only a paper promise. The inventor is >>the wild card in the world of finance. A new source of energy could bring >>down the empire. >> >>Yes, I along with Joe Newman and Robert Adams truly know the magnitude of >>the beast. >> >>I make all my ideas public as I see myself more as a basic physical >>scientist and teacher than an inventor. >> >>My solution was to leave the United States to find a place where I was not >>altogether encouraged but not discouraged. I am much happier here in New >>Zealand. >> >>Thank you for the Email of the two faxes you received. I am not surprised >>to see the big boys are at work. The handwriting is on the wall. >> >>I had read some of Ehrenhaft's work in the past. It shows we don't know >>all there is to know about light, magnetism and electricity. >> >>My theory is that there is no theory. All we know is what we know from >>experience. My advice to Joe is to go where he might be appreciated. >>Where he is going and where America is heading are two separate directions. >> >>If you need anything from me don't hesitate to ask. >> >> >>Best wishes, >> >> >>Bruce DePalma >> >> >>N.B. God is in charge of this world. The truth is only for those who's >>ears hear the truth and who's eyes see the truth. Yes and praise Ishtar in her battle against YVHV the evil god. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 12:04:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA09868; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:55:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:55:03 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981014020729.00a23ac0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:07:29 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: In-Reply-To: <003301bdf74c$37823fe0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"hTAeG2.0.UP2.5EF9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7012 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Then, IAW, the Thomas Townsend Brown effect, you have just described what I >understand is artificial gravity. The B-2 is propelled by >electrostatically charging the leading edge of the wing and the exhaust of >the engine (after it reaches cruise speed the air alone does the job), >AD4-produces in the neighborhood of 15Million Volts or better. That could well be. I once built a negative ion generator that produced negative ions from a needle out the top. When a cigarette was held close to the needle, the smoke and ash would be blown away in opposition even to gravity. It was like an omnidirectional wind coming from the needle. A fascinating toy, when I placed it in a beam of sunlight and stirred the dust so as to where the floating particles could be seen in the air, these particles would drop like a stone when they neared the sides of the needle. Those above the needle would shoot up though. I never did figure out the why of this. Ron Any suggestions as to the reason or cause of the above effect using an ion generator. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 14:01:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA09176; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 13:55:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 13:55:11 -0700 Message-ID: <36252B72.7E90@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:53:38 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Conductive fluids Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"E7W5-3.0.HF2.k-G9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7015 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All: Anyone here know of a fairly cheap conductive fluid I can obtain that will support about ten amps? Thanks, Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 15:46:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05693; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <009201bdf7c2$a2346220$4d5cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:01:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"sNHms.0.sO1.tXI9s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7016 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >The N in N Machine stands for N applications. The Handbook has also a >letter from Stefan Marinov, as concerns his Perpetuum Mobile machine. >Marinov also died recently, supposedly he strangled him self to death with >a hose (not a hanging). Where are you getting your info? Marinov jumped off a roof. The hose thing was Phil Schneider, probably. -- "There are no authorities whatever. No president, academy, court of law, congress or senate on this earth has the power or the knowledge to decide what will be the knowledge of tomorrow." --Dr. Wilhelm Reich From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 16:43:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA04496; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:37:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:37:47 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981014073623.00a31ab0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 07:36:23 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Mass<& bone loss> In-Reply-To: <36243DBF.326187F7@bway.net> References: <018e01bdf721$d90e0cc0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"CqJP22.0.861.ANJ9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7017 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Khem, I wish to thank you for the webpage, especially that of www.ortho.1sumc.edu I downloaded the whole book. A wealth of information and useful to, now to print it and read it. By the way I thought I would share at least some validation for my claims about lack of stress causing bone loss. Of course my opinion was unscientific, and derived from observation and logic. Here is from chapter 8 of the book. Effect of EMF on bones. When the long bones are immobilized, (e.g., by casting) a frequent physiological response is a loss of bone material - a condition known as osteoporosis. As we have seen in chapter 2, bone is a piezoelectric material and, consequently, it exhibits the converse piezoelectric effect (mechanical deformation under the influence of an applied electric field). McElhaney et al. (52) hypothesized that an electric field could simulate the naturally present mechanical stresses in bone via the converse piezoelectric effect, and thereby eliminate the osteoporosis associated with disuse. The theory was tested by immobilizing the hind limbs of rats and then observing the effect of an electric field; it was found that the osteoporosis caused by immobilization was reduced by exposure to 7 kv/m, 3-30 Hz. However, in addition, 44% of the EMF-exposed animals developed bone tumors; none were seen in the sham-irradiated rats. Martin and Gutman (53), (Martin worked with McElhaney et al. on the original study) performed a replicate study and confirmed the observation that the EMF ameliorated the immobilization-induced osteoporosis. No tumors, however, or other malformations were observed either by gross or microscopic examination." I also noticed this interesting item in an earlier chapter: I wonder if planera have non magnetized dogmatic (oops magnetic) domains. "In 1952 Marsh and Beams reported on an interesting series of experiments on Planaria, a species of relatively simple flatworm with a primitive nervous system and simple head-to-tail axis of organization (29). As expected, electrical measurements had indicated a simple head-tail dipole field. This animal had remarkable regenerative powers; it could be cut transversely into a number of segments, all of which would regenerate a new total organism. Even more remarkable, the original head-tail axis would be preserved in each regenerate, with that portion nearest the original head end becoming the head of the new organism. Marsh and Beams postulated that the original head-tail electrical vector persisted in the cut segments and that it provided the morphological information for the regenerate. If this was so, then reversal of the electrical gradient by exposing the cut surface to an external current source of proper orientation should produce some reversal of the head-tail gradient in the regenerate. While performing the experiment they found that as the current levels were increased the first response was to form a head at each end of the regenerating segment. With still further increases in the current the expected reversal of the head-tail gradient did occur, indicating that the electrical gradient which naturally existed in these animals was capable of transmitting morphological information. At 01:59 AM 10/14/98 -0400, you wrote: >> Bill Wallace wrote: > >> Is there some way we could stress our body without >> continual excercising, say an application of an electrical >> field? > > It's possible. You might want to take a look at this page >from Dr. Marino's Site at >http://www.ortho.lsumc.edu/Faculty/Marino/IUPS.html >And there's an online book available that deals with this >subject & much more, written by Drs. Marino & Becker, at: >http://www.ortho.lsumc.edu/Faculty/Marino/EL/ELTOC.html > > Incidentally, Dr. Becker independently verified the effect >of ionic/colloidal silver's antibiotic properties. He writes >about it in his book, 'The Body Electric: Electromagnetism >and the Foundation of Life',1987,Wm. Morrow/Quill books,ISBN >0-688-06971-1. > The book also explores the EM dynamics of boneloss/growth, >among other things. > >--Khem Caigan > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 17:03:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA12727; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:54:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:54:01 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981014075142.00a9e100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 07:51:42 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Stefan Marinov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"dFOMb2.0.X63.OcJ9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7018 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 6:02 PM on 6/14/98 Jim Shaffer, jr wrote: The N in N Machine stands for N applications. The Handbook has also a >letter from Stefan Marinov, as concerns his Perpetuum Mobile machine. >Marinov also died recently, supposedly he strangled him self to death with >a hose (not a hanging). Where are you getting your info? Marinov jumped off a roof. The hose thing was Phil Schneider, probably. You are correct, info overload, too many free energy researchers dying of unnatural and premature deaths (;( ). Should raise someone's suspicion somewhere. Anyway I found this in my inbox Interesting info on Stefan Marinov UPDATE ON STEFAN'S MARINOV DEATH Emails by Panos Pappas ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: pappasp@ibm.net Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:48:05 +0200 To: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Update on Stefan's Marinov Death Hallo There, Thanks for the communication. [Snip: personal.] I would be glad to assist any one for the experiments I carried with my late friend Leon Dragone. By the way, I would like to pass to you my most recent updated investigation on my other late friend Stefan Marinov. Please, post it and/or distributed. Thank you. I am attaching the update [below]: Regards Panos T. Pappas. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Update on Stefan's Marinov death. On 18 to 20 of August, I and Dr. Paul LaViolette visited the city of Graz to investigate the accident. We visited the University of Graz at the back of the Bibliotheque at Universitatsplatz 2, A 8010-Graz, where Stefan Marinov presumably jumped off from the top of the four level outside emergency staircase to the street. According to the librarian only one student show Stefan actually jumping off. The name of the student is not known to us. The body of Stefan was found lying on the street below the staircase by Professor Ernst Ebermann. Stefan was not bleeding and initially Professor Ebermann thought he was sleeping there. He was still alive. Stefan left no cry or cries. The ambulance was called and Stefan died on his way to the Hospital. The bicycle with which Stefan presumably arrived there, is still there, locked and unnoticed (at least up to 19/9/1997). No body else noticed the accident, except first the assumed student and later Professor Ebermann 031 36 61637, 0316-380 5605, fax 0316-381255, and perhaps a few other people later. According to Professor Ebermann, a brightly visible fluorescent spot, about the same size and in the same exact position with the body, was left on the asphalt of the street, for 3 days, after the removal of the body, without an apparent cause for the spot, or without being due to any bleeding of blood or another liquid coming from Stefan's body. The Police has made no official announcement today. Apparently, they did not investigate the case obviously in depth, since the bike is still by the place of accident, locked and unnoticed. The apartment of Stefan is sealed by the police and nobody is allowed to enter, except for his son Marin Marinov who entered for a brief time on 6 or 7 of August 1997. His belongings were not allowed to be taken and are still sealed there. Stefan left various letters typed over his typewriter and bearing his signature. In a particular letter, he was asking me to be notified immediately and a few others. The police never made the notification to any body. The authorities of Graz refuse any value for the letters and to his last will, for it bears only one signature without witnesses. The case of Stefan Marinov and his letters were given to the city Advocate: Dr Egbert Sprenger, Joanneuming 11, A-8010 Graz, tel: +43-316 828991-0. In the morning of 19/8/1997, we, together with Mr. Jeorg Deisting fax/phone +43-316-464023 visited the offices of the city advocate Dr E. Sprenger. The said case and letters were there, but, we were refused of any information. We strongly protested against the refusal, but, eventually, we had to leave without getting any information. The son of Stefan Marinov, Marin Marinov (+359 88 520840, +359 2 988 5246, fax +359 2 988 52 84, zamminister@online.bg) is currently Deputy Minister of Industry of Bulgaria and is in a delicate situation with respect to the death of his father. No one knew or was told about the intended and assumed suicide of Stefan Marinov, even his brother who talked to him on the phone one hour before Stefan's death. Stefan had visited his son in Bulgaria 20 days before, myself in Athens 15 days before, had written a letter to me 3 days before, and had written letters to various other people, making appointments or suggesting various future collaborations (to Professor Selleri for example). 10 days before Stefan's death, Stefan had made a Hotel reservation for me and himself for an International Physics Conference to take place in Koln, Germany, on August 25, 1997. Professor P. T. Pappas Markopulioti 28, Athens 11744, Greece. e-mail pappasp@ibm.net tel: ++301-9010355, fax: ++301-9011620 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subj: The Last Protest (extended) Date: Tue, Aug 5, 1997 6:02 AM EDT From: pappasp@ibm.net Copy forwarded by PT Pappas Extended and Updated THE LAST PROTEST Dear Mr Erwin Schneeberger, Thank you for letting me know on 28/7/1997 about the sad event. Please, accept some questions and comments from me, for I knew Stefan Marinov over 20 years. He used to say I am his oldest scientific co-fighter and fellow friend. Stefan was with me in Athens repeating his last experiments, just 15 days before he died. At that time, nothing could make me suspect his early death, two weeks later. Adopting the Police explanation that Dr Stefan Marinov Killed himself, on July 15, 1997, jumping from the University of Graz Bibliotheque (Library) building, I would like to ask: Why there was no official press or news release? I was the first to inform his son, Marin Marinov, two weeks later, on 31/7/1997 in Sophia for the death of his father who asked me a similar question. "Why the police still did not inform me, for two weeks, after the death of my father?" Stefan Marinov was known all over the world, half of the citizens of city of Graz knew him. Stefan Marinov's death, jumping off a public building, should have been the first news for the city of Graz, for half the people there will now look for Stefan and many more from all over the world. Is it true that there is no press release in this case for the city of Graz? Does it look like a cover up? Even, Mr Deisting who first informed us, found out accidentally about Stefan's death from the librarian on 25/7/1997. Stefan had attempted unsuccessfully to kill himself in the past, in Paris, in an attempt to make a protest against scientific censorship and the indifference of the scientific community. Assuming that Stefan had chosen for himself, a public building, as the Library of the University of Graz, instead of his own high elevated balcony, apparently he did so for the same protest, however, not particularly for the University of Graz. He did so to protest against all universities and position-occupying, indifferent-for-the-truth scientists and salary receiving professors. The authorities of the University, knowing Stefan and his continuous efforts to answer unanswered scientific questions for the last 20 years, apparently managed to cancel an annoying press conference or press release by the police, which they thought would have caused students all over the world to ask more questions which their Professors could not answer and Editors would not publish, like the lists of questions and problems Stefan used to send and never got an answer - other than the typical "Professor's" answer: "I am not a Specialist", "Do not get me involved", "I have no time...", quoting only the most recent responses to his questions, just one month before his Last Protest. Whoever controls knowledge for humanity and tries to stop human evolution by confusing the masses and public media should know that whatever they call Stefan Marinov's death -- suicide or killing, they committed another killing for Stefan Marinov killed himself, in order to protest against the control of scientific knowledge. Just before the end of the last century the authority of the USA patent office issued a direction: "No more patents on electromagnetism will be accepted, for whatever is to be invented in electromagnetism, has already been invented!". At the dawn of the airplane revolution, scientific authorities, like the Academy of Science in France or the Royal Society with Lord Kelvin made the aphorism: "Machines heavier than air may not fly!", presumably based on mathematical proofs! At the last part of our century for ten years (decade of 1970), scientific institutions and public media were making repetitively clear via all means: "We are facing a disaster, petroleum is coming to an end before the year 2000!" Now, they say "conservation of energy" is perfect!, even they cannot prove this "conservation" better than the degree of error present day technology introduces -- at least 1 ppm masking error, remaining in all experiments, which is huge for planetary and astronomical scale. Instead, they want to say: Energy was violated only once in the past, at the beginning, only at the "Big Bang", and that this conservation will never be violated again in the future by all means! (not to allow humans to step to the next scientific evolution). They say the "Perpetual Mobile" is not possible, only a crazy scientist may attempt it, even, they have no scientific proof for its non-existence, only the assumption that it has not yet been invented. This attitude is not science! Apparently the sense and politics, for the next step of civilization is coming, dictates these actions in order to stop or delay scientific evolution. However, it was the Teslas, the Wrights, the Marinovs who did not listen to these politics, and science advances despite the intentionally spread confusion. Stefan spent a big portion of his life to fight confusion and misinformation in Physics. Theories reducing the Physics of experiments in to the Physics of gendaken utopia, such as the relativity theory with observers moving with constant velocity (non-existing). Stefan, however, soon realized it was a waste of his time fighting a dead horse and the politics behind the Physics. Stefan Marinov was also a strong believer in the non-conservation of energy as the underlying principle of the universe, creation, and life. Soon, the big passion and mission of his life became to prove the non-conservation of energy and to offer it to humanity, as a mechanism of supplying abundant energy for every one, terminating third world starvation and poverty below all elementary living standards and elevating humanity to its next due stage. Stefan Marinov considered, during the last fifteen years of his life, the construction of a self-sustaining energy producing device, the so called "Perpetual Mobile", as the only mission of his life given to him and purpose of living. When the noble man (correctly or wrongly) believed could not accomplish this last mission of his life, decided to offer his life against his first noble goal, fighting misinformation, censorship and deliberately spread confusion in Physics. He decided his Last Protest. Stefan you may not have been able (and you would not be able) with your short resources to give us an effective Perpetual Mobile, producing energy out of nothing and sustaining itself, however, you left us many principles and knowledge. You were unable because of another non-conservation Perpetuum that has long been discovered outside the world of Physics and is in operation in human society - the Perpetual Money Machine, producing (issuing and printing) money out of nothing and sustaining itself. For as long as the second Perpetuum (even unknown to many, but very well known to a few) is in existence, the first is not allowed to exist. For the big truth is (without entering into details for the effective mechanisms): The one Perpetuum excludes and will exclude the other Perpetuum, ...and yours, Stefan, really happens to be the second. Stefan you left us, though you could work, dig into forgotten and forbidden research, and produce more. However, you considered your Last Protest more important. Be sure, we do not listen, too, to politics and economics. It is only a matter of time. Your example will give more energy to us. It was the best Perpetual Mobile you made--that of energy and knowledge. Sincerely, Professor P. T. Pappas Markopulioti 28, Athens 11744, Greece. e-mail pappasp@ibm.net tel: ++301-9010355, fax: ++301-9011620 Mike CT Business Analyst - Health and Social Services (867) 667-5932 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 17:29:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA27905; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:20:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:20:11 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36252B72.7E90@sunherald.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:18:57 -1000 To: freenrg list From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Conductive fluids Resent-Message-ID: <"ovGch1.0.hp6.v-J9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7019 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >All: > >Anyone here know of a fairly cheap conductive fluid I can obtain that >will support about ten amps? > >Thanks, >Kyle R. Mcallister Depends on the dimensions of the conductive region you need. Salt water is fine for short and wide. Liquid metals like mercury for narrower channels. I had good luck recently with heated solder at high amperage, like 100+. Some solders melt below the boiling point of water. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 19:17:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA07400; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:08:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:08:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199810150210.WAA12553@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 00:12:44 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"L_BK63.0.Yp1.iaL9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7020 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You wrote: Yes and praise Ishtar in her battle against YVHV the evil god? What is the possible meaning of your prognosis? Wre you drinking alcohol.? Are you a female? The name doesn't indicate it. Perhaps you should clarify your gender. Sincerely H. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net ---------- > >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > >Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 10:39 PM > >Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 > >(no need for obvious snip) My previous post; > >>>Can anyone on the lists supply info or verification of DePalma's demise? > >>>Also I thought I noted that someone said something about Joe Champion > >being > >>>in jail,does anyone know why this would be? > >>> I found the info at Gravity Gate on DePalmer( spelling in question) > >>>to be most fascinating. The question is that I have is how can currents be > >>>induced in two manners,both along the axis of rotation of the magnet and a > >>>radial propagation outwards from the axis. If these currents are produced > >>>without a lenz law reaction which is what the site and diagram seems to > >>>indicate, why hasnt this process been widely used. Is there a possibility > >>>that it is not overunity? This site is at > >>>www.starwon.com.au/~rayd/index.htm Any info would be appreciated Sincerly > >>>HDN mnorris@akron.infi.net > >> > >> > >>N.B. God is in charge of this world. The truth is only for those who's > >>ears hear the truth and who's eyes see the truth. > > Yes and praise Ishtar in her battle against YVHV the evil god. Also it is not what what we take from the world that makes us rich, but what we we give. HDN (certifiably not a quote from Lee Marvin) Sincerly not wishing to be misquoted or miss-identified, Harvey D. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 20:00:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA27653; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:55:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:55:57 -0700 From: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca Message-Id: X-Sender: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:46:30 -0400 To: szymanek@connect.ab.ca, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net Subject: Re: Hamels 45gallon drum recreation Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <362407C3.607C@connect.ab.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"H_eGl.0._l6.yGM9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7021 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Also check out; http://www.projectmagnet.com/ Chris Gupta At 08:09 PM 10/13/98 -0600, szymanek@connect.ab.ca wrote: >Hello all. My name is Justin and this is my frist post on this list. >Anyway, since I first heard about David Hamel I was very excited and >wished to re-create his devices. I build the Hamel spinner and now am >attempting to re-create his 45 gallon drum experiment. I have desided to >build it in a much smaller table top type version. When I get it working >I will post full diagrams of how to build it on the net, and we will get >some action happening. I was wondering if anyone has tried to do this or >knows of any informations about this that I don't. Here is why I know/or >have been lead to believe about Hamel 45 g. drum experiment. >-Made in 45 Gallon drum >-cones were made from bike wheel rims >-radio shack square magnets used on cones and drum creating a direct >North<->North replusion >-a mechinical ocilliator was used? >I am planning to use 2" cones and 4" (inside dia) PVC pipe (SCH 40) as >the 'drum' with magnets glued on the outside (4.5" inside dia for the >magnets, the od of the pipe is 4.5") >A mechincal occillator built out of 1/2" marbles, wood, and 1" radio >shack ring magnets. >More info (for those who never heard of Hamel) is @ >http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/hfrnrgen.htm and >http://www.keelynet.com/gravity/hamel.htm >I appreciate any and all feed back. >Hamels devices are fairly simple and don't seem to need to be made with >amazing precision, he use electrical tape to fasten the magnets on the >cones! >Lets talk less and build more, and when it works tell all (talk more >THEN) Lets get some stuff done, and everyone must build a working model >so are numbers can be great enought to not just be snuffed out like so >many others! (I'm so inspirational tonight! :o)} >Cheers, >Justin Szymanek > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > To leave this list, email > with the body text: leave keelynet > WWW based join and leave forms and KeelyNet list archives > are at http://dallastexas.net/keelynet/ > ------------------------------------------------------------- > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 20:06:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA30413; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:03:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:03:28 -0700 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhRdNY44Pjr4pUoCutTsePWuKIAQsAIUWujqm8NGkwNvqxoLreQaHcG2AY4= From: dennisgarrett@webtv.net (Dennis Garrett) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:05:03 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hamels 45gallon drum recreation Message-ID: <27310-3625665F-3197@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"cDoq91.0.2R7._NM9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7022 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: david hamel? who and what? dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 21:26:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA03010; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:24:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:24:44 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199810150210.WAA12553@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:23:48 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"Qqxnf1.0.wk.BaN9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7023 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Harvey - > You wrote: Yes and praise Ishtar in her > battle against YVHV the evil god? What is the > possible meaning of your prognosis? YVHV was a genocidal monster from back in the really "old days". Flew around in a shining UFO bombing and burning the cities of ordinary humans. Some of his murderous exploits on this planet are fairly well documented in the Bible. It's a shame that this criminal's persona was later merged with that of the big Universal Christian God in the same book, who by most reports is a nice guy. Ishtar was a serious Babe, and a staunch defender of humanity. I hope this lovely warrior killed that bastard YVHV; the stories from that time are pretty fragmented and hard to understand. There are some nice old images still around showing her in her military gear, flight goggles and all. . . . Hey, it could literally be true - what do we know? We're like babies, a few hundred years out of the mud of the dark ages, with little or no collective memory of what came long before, or what sort of 'visitors' we may have entertained. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 21:35:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA08969; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:33:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:33:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199810150434.AAA18519@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , Subject: Motor/generator confusion. Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:37:31 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3I1303.0.vB2.AiN9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7024 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: When a simple DC magnetic motor is operated in reverse as to produce an action as a generator the following facts are observed; 1) At the point of production of maximum torque as a motor in the revolution of the armature; correspondingly the inverse action of operation as a generator consists of zero power output. 2)The motor action thus does not make a mirror copy of its actions when operated in reverse as a generator. 3) Rather these relations operate in the condition of nature known as a 90 degree phase angle. 4) Properly interpreted if one wishes to attain a superior output in conjunction with the copying of nature, that same input should express itself as a two phased input at 90 degrees of phase separation. 5)If each of these phases were to power a series resonant phenomenon then one phase would produce a full magnetic field @ of full power input. Also the other phase would concurrently produce a phase containing a full electric field @ of zero power input 6)These facts concur with the reasoning of conservation of energy in its expressions. In the first case kinetic energy of charge movement as a magnetic field is expressed. In the 2nd case the potential energy of capacitive storage of charge is shown, which is why the 2nd phase phase concurrently draws nothing. It consists entirely of potential energy. 7)The most misunderstood fact of the conservation of energy consists of the axiom that both the kinetic and potential energies of an oscillation add to a constant. This is true for a SINGLE phase. When the kinetic energy increases,a corresponding decrease of potential energy is noted which makes these values add to a constant value. 8) Searl has proclaimed in his invention that he has the only device in which both kinetic and potential energies simultaneously rise, perhaps he should add that what comes up must come down! Of course I have just shown such a circumstance. 9)A convincing argument can be shown that if the electric and magnetic fields involved in resonance from a single phase were allowed to be shown in the the same space at right angles, a 3rd reaction force known as the lorentz interaction would be able move charges at right angles to both the causitive fields. The energies involved in this 3-d movement of charge would naturally not exceed the input energy. This is because of vector laws that .707 of an expanding magnetic field could react with .707 of a collapsing electric field at their respective maximum interaction points yielding back the energy stored in either field alone. 10)By this reasoning if a full magnetic and full electric field could react at right angles it should produce more energy than stored in either field alone. If such a situation could be made an over-unity hypothesis would be in order. 11)But that hypothesis is predicated on the fact that that two 90 degree phases of resonances must be used as an input. But also detracting from this is the fact that two outputs can also be obtained. Also the fact that at maximum output only one phase supplies actual power or expression as kinetic energy. 12)In a mathematical correlation of formation of magic squares it is shown the same exact formulation occurs in the solution to even squares as a multiple of 4. Paradoxically this solution can be mixed up easily to code the way that it is logically formed to produce so many solutions as to become mind boggling. Nevertheless the initial solution always shows a pairing of increasing and decreasing quantities at right angles. Is nature teaching us something in its mathematical clues? Post Script; It has taken me awhile to produce any evidence of my claims. But what did Sherlock Holmes say? The game is afoot Watson. Sincere in the work, Harvey D. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 21:42:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA14187; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:39:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:39:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199810150441.AAA22215@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:44:08 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dv5nE3.0.TT3.DoN9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7026 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry Rick, I didnt write that. Apparently Lee slipped that in with or without my consternation. I appropriately noted this to Lee. By the way is Lee a woman? I thought I heard other derivatives.Sincerly without confusion HDN mnorris@akron.infi.net ---------- > From: Rick Monteverde > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 > Date: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 11:23 PM > > Harvey - > > > You wrote: Yes and praise Ishtar in her > > battle against YVHV the evil god? What is the > > possible meaning of your prognosis? > > YVHV was a genocidal monster from back in the really "old days". Flew > around in a shining UFO bombing and burning the cities of ordinary humans. > Some of his murderous exploits on this planet are fairly well documented in > the Bible. It's a shame that this criminal's persona was later merged with > that of the big Universal Christian God in the same book, who by most > reports is a nice guy. > > Ishtar was a serious Babe, and a staunch defender of humanity. I hope this > lovely warrior killed that bastard YVHV; the stories from that time are > pretty fragmented and hard to understand. There are some nice old images > still around showing her in her military gear, flight goggles and all. > > . . . > > Hey, it could literally be true - what do we know? We're like babies, a few > hundred years out of the mud of the dark ages, with little or no collective > memory of what came long before, or what sort of 'visitors' we may have > entertained. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 21:44:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA14124; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:39:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:39:36 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981014123630.008c5830@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:36:30 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 In-Reply-To: <199810150210.WAA12553@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"APmaS1.0.bS3.6oN9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7025 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee wrote: Yes and praise Ishtar in her battle against YVHV the evil god? Meat truck Wrote: What is the possible meaning of your prognosis? Wre you drinking alcohol.? Lee Markland replies: How rude, how totally rude. Drinking alcohol? Don't touch the poison at all. How Rude, and how stereotypically Christian in that rudeness. I hope you my comment was as offensive, as I found the quote below by N.B. Which is equally rude, self righteous, and offensive to those who don't share your or the author's beliefs. I have never met anything so arrogant as a monotheist, self righteous, and of necessity a True Believe (see Eric Hoffer's book by that name by the way). Monotheists, just because they choose to believe that their god is The God, believe they have a right to proslytize their belief. Well I object, and find their assumptions and beliefs repugnant. If I MUST believe then I will chose a god or goddess of my own liking Inanna, Ishtar, Kali or even Thor, but not that genocidal, racist, misogynistic creation of Moishe named of YVHV. (N.B. God is in charge of this world. The truth is only for those who's >>ears hear the truth and who's eyes see the truth) How dare people assume that God (which is merely a generic name for a higher power) is their god (usually YVHV) or that their god is "The God. Such " arrogance has true believers. The meaning of my prognosis. I am a full recovered ex Fundamentalist Christian and have studied the Babble and read it through a number of times. In fact I own four versions of it. I find this YVHV evil, vindictive, jealous, insecure, misogynistic, racist and a mass murderer that not only condones genocide but encourgages it. How can anybody worship a God, who through his supposed inerrant book, condones incest, slavery, murder, extortion, theft, genocide an all forms of horror and inhumanity, e.g."Then thou shalt take an awl, and thrust it through his ear unto the door, and he shall be thy servant for ever. And also unto thy maidservant thous shalt do likewise (Deut: 15;17,KJV).In order to minimize the Bibles support for slavery the translators have used words like slavery, bondsmen etc. instead of the proper and correct word slave (and this throughout the Bible). The foregoing description of a frontal lobotomy tells you who originated this practise of creating human tomatoes. Anytime anyone feels they have a RIGHT to invoke their concept of God, had best be prepared for those who don't share their self righteous beliefs. Besides most folk who profess belief in religion are really solispists, knowing their own modification and defining their god and their notion of that god as suits their own fears and needs. Besides to express belief in the Babble, hence YVHV requires circular reasoning (no wonder the domination of mass gravitarians). Circular Reasoning: Belief in the Bible is predicated on the belief that it is the word of YVHV, and that belief is based on the Bible itself. In other words, the bible is the word of god, because it says so in the Bible. Belief in mass gravity is predicated on the belief that mass causes gravity, and that gravity is what causes mass. No mass no gravity, no gravity no mass. Meat Truck rants on: Are you a female? The name doesn't indicate it. Perhaps you should clarify your gender. To which Lee responds: I have already clarified my gender, obviously you don't read the postings as others do. As regards "should clarify my gender". Why for what purpose? To fulfill some need in you to stereotype, categorize and label? Lee Markland in response to H. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net I hope you don't want to continue Mr. Meat Truck. I'm haven't even warmed up yet and am saving my heavy artillery and the cavalry charge for later. . At 12:12 AM 10/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >You wrote: Yes and praise Ishtar in her battle against YVHV the evil god? >What is the possible meaning of your prognosis? Wre you drinking alcohol.? >Are you a female? The name doesn't indicate it. Perhaps you should clarify >your gender. >Sincerely H. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net > >---------- >> >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> >Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 10:39 PM >> >Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 >> >(no need for obvious snip) >My previous post; >> >>>Can anyone on the lists supply info or verification of DePalma's >demise? >> >>>Also I thought I noted that someone said something about Joe Champion >> >being >> >>>in jail,does anyone know why this would be? >> >>> I found the info at Gravity Gate on DePalmer( spelling in >question) >> >>>to be most fascinating. The question is that I have is how can >currents be >> >>>induced in two manners,both along the axis of rotation of the magnet >and a >> >>>radial propagation outwards from the axis. If these currents are >produced >> >>>without a lenz law reaction which is what the site and diagram seems >to >> >>>indicate, why hasnt this process been widely used. Is there a >possibility >> >>>that it is not overunity? This site is at >> >>>www.starwon.com.au/~rayd/index.htm Any info would be appreciated >Sincerly >> >>>HDN mnorris@akron.infi.net >> >> >> >> >> >>N.B. God is in charge of this world. The truth is only for those >who's >> >>ears hear the truth and who's eyes see the truth. >> >> Yes and praise Ishtar in her battle against YVHV the evil god. > > >Also it is not what what we take from the world that makes us rich, >but what we we give. HDN (certifiably not a quote from Lee Marvin) >Sincerly not wishing to be misquoted or miss-identified, >Harvey D. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 21:48:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA18718; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:45:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:45:14 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981014124307.008e6180@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:43:07 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 In-Reply-To: References: <199810150210.WAA12553@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"fETXX.0.Oa4.QtN9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7027 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks Rick, what I said, but not so vividly and definitely much more interesting than my preaching rant :) Lee At 06:23 PM 10/14/98 -1000, you wrote: >Harvey - > > > You wrote: Yes and praise Ishtar in her > > battle against YVHV the evil god? What is the > > possible meaning of your prognosis? > >YVHV was a genocidal monster from back in the really "old days". Flew >around in a shining UFO bombing and burning the cities of ordinary humans. >Some of his murderous exploits on this planet are fairly well documented in >the Bible. It's a shame that this criminal's persona was later merged with >that of the big Universal Christian God in the same book, who by most >reports is a nice guy. > >Ishtar was a serious Babe, and a staunch defender of humanity. I hope this >lovely warrior killed that bastard YVHV; the stories from that time are >pretty fragmented and hard to understand. There are some nice old images >still around showing her in her military gear, flight goggles and all. > >. . . > >Hey, it could literally be true - what do we know? We're like babies, a few >hundred years out of the mud of the dark ages, with little or no collective >memory of what came long before, or what sort of 'visitors' we may have >entertained. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 21:51:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA20956; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:50:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:50:21 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981014124830.008ca100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:48:30 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 In-Reply-To: <199810150441.AAA22215@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"mT8vE1.0.G75.DyN9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7028 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:44 AM 10/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >Sorry Rick, I didnt write that. Apparently Lee slipped that in with or >without my consternation. I appropriately noted this to Lee. By the way is >Lee a woman? The quote was from an Oct 13th post from Evan Soule with initials N.B. Why, may I ask, is it so important to identify my gender? It seems to me that you have some personal problem, vis a vis, stereotypes, expectations, role playings. Is that so? Has to be. I never ever concern myself with the gender, race, age, or anything else of folk whom I meet on the internet. When it comes to a meeting of minds, or examination and/or exchange of intellectual processes - none of those things matter. Or at least they shouldn't matter to a healthy and mature intellect. Lee >I thought I heard other derivatives.Sincerly without confusion HDN >mnorris@akron.infi.net >---------- >> From: Rick Monteverde >> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 >> Date: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 11:23 PM >> >> Harvey - >> >> > You wrote: Yes and praise Ishtar in her >> > battle against YVHV the evil god? What is the >> > possible meaning of your prognosis? >> >> YVHV was a genocidal monster from back in the really "old days". Flew >> around in a shining UFO bombing and burning the cities of ordinary >humans. >> Some of his murderous exploits on this planet are fairly well documented >in >> the Bible. It's a shame that this criminal's persona was later merged >with >> that of the big Universal Christian God in the same book, who by most >> reports is a nice guy. >> >> Ishtar was a serious Babe, and a staunch defender of humanity. I hope >this >> lovely warrior killed that bastard YVHV; the stories from that time are >> pretty fragmented and hard to understand. There are some nice old images >> still around showing her in her military gear, flight goggles and all. >> >> . . . >> >> Hey, it could literally be true - what do we know? We're like babies, a >few >> hundred years out of the mud of the dark ages, with little or no >collective >> memory of what came long before, or what sort of 'visitors' we may have >> entertained. >> >> - Rick Monteverde >> Honolulu, HI >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 21:53:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA21623; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:52:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:52:00 -0700 Message-Id: <199810150453.VAA10028@mailhub2.ncal.verio.com> From: "silliman" To: Subject: Art Bell show discontinued??? Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:59:34 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1085 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LvNyr.0.mH5.lzN9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7029 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: My local newpaper reports that Art Bell has gone into hiding. His phone has been disconnected, and he has stopped doing his radio show. Anyone know anything about this situation? Norm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 21:54:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA21892; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:52:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:52:28 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981014125006.00aa5db0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:50:06 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: [AEF] Animal organ patients will be less human-report Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"heUpz3.0.wL5.B-N9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7030 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Not exactly Free energy, but up the alley of many on this list, including Dave. Lee "Mark LeCuyer" wrote: Anomalies & Enigmas List -------------------------------- Source: Reuters 10/13/98 Animal organ patients will be less human-report LONDON, Oct 8 (Reuters) - British animal rights groups suggested on Tuesday that people receiving animal organ transplants could become less human. They said cells from the animal organs would spread throughout the recipient's body, effectively making them a human chimera, the mythical creature that combines features from different animal species. ``The human xenotransplantation patient will become a literal chimera,'' Dr Gill Langley, told a news conference on Tuesday to launch a new report on animal-to-human organ transplants. ``It sounds like scare-mongering, but let me reassure you that the word chimera is being used by xenotransplant scientists.'' Langley co-authored the report by the British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection (BUAV) and Compassion in World Farming (CWF) warning about the dangers of xenotransplation -- the use of organs, tissues or cells from a different species. The report said there was little evidence that pig or monkey organs could sustain human life and differences in species would cause serious, even fatal problems. It cautioned that animals could pass on viruses to humans and said the research was causing undue suffering to animals. The report also claimed that there are unknown psychological consequences that patients will have to deal with. ``We seem to be almost sleepwalking, oblivious to all the dangers,'' said Mike Baker, the chief executive of BUAV, adding that the technology was neither safe nor effective. He said the report was designed to highlight the problems and to offer alternative ways to deal with the shortage of transplant organs. The report followed new British guidelines on xenotransplantation announced in July which the groups said failed to address the dangers of the technology. Scientists believe that animal organ transplants may be the only way to solve the growing shortage of human transplant organs. Up to 50,000 people in Europe are waiting for human donated organs and demand is growing by 15 percent each year. The discovery that pig viruses - called procine endogenous retroviruses - could be transferred to humans during transplants led to calls for a moratorium on xenotransplantation research. Rejection of the animal organ by the recipient's immune system and concerns about retroviruses are the main problems holdling back xenotransplantation. Recent studies presented to the United Kingdom Xenotransplantation Interim Regulation Authority, a government body, in August showed that people who received cells from pigs for pancreatic disorders and Parkinson's disease did not show any signs of being infected with a pig virus. REUTERS@ -Mark- ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Alien Astronomer - Exploring Our Universe http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583 UFOlogy - Astronomy - Secret Societies - Hi-Tech ************************************************************** To unsubscribe: http://www.paradigm-sys.com/ae/aef-list.html or email to majordomo@zmatrix.com in the message body: UNSUBSCRIBE aefl your_email_address To get HELP file send in the message body: HELP ************************************************************** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 21:55:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA24432; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:54:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:54:00 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981014125206.008d4100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:52:06 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Art Bell show discontinued??? In-Reply-To: <199810150453.VAA10028@mailhub2.ncal.verio.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"apUzj1.0.gz5.d_N9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7031 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:59 PM 10/14/98 -0700, you wrote: >My local newpaper reports that Art Bell has gone into hiding. His phone >has been disconnected, and he has stopped doing his radio show. > >Anyone know anything about this situation? > >Norm Rick Jackson wrote: Anomalies & Enigmas List -------------------------------- Early on yesterday, I sent a message to KOH, our local affiliate. I just got this back from News Director Dan Mason. They're going to stick with the show for now hoping Art comes back. If he doesn't, maybe the network will pick up where Art left off with a new host, although I really fear they'll go back to the "tried & true" polictical drivel and we'll have to suffer through long discussions about Monica Lewinsky. You won't listen, of course, but as a graveyard worker, Art was my longtime companion in the night. >Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:02:11 -0700 >From: Dan Mason >Organization: News Radio 780 KOH >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) >To: Rick Jackson >Subject: Re: Art Bell Shocker > >Rick, > >Regarding Art Bell: The network says it is not a hoax. They are talking to >Art and hoping to resolve all of this and get him back on the air. We'll just >have to wait and see. > >Dan Mason > >Rick Jackson wrote: > >> Any idea what you'll replace Art Bell with in light of his retirement >> announcement? This was a real shocker, and I suspect something happened >> during his break that scared him. At the beginning of his show, he was >> expressing optimism about future plans and announcing new affiliates. >> >> Have you been in contact with his network? Is it possible that Art will be >> back on the air after he's cooled off? Rick Jackson, Reno, NV....proud to be "soft on crime!" From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 21:58:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA26633; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:56:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:56:53 -0700 Message-Id: <199810150457.AAA19261@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Reply to Lee Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:00:55 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PUm7K2.0.yV6.K2O9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7032 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Where is Don Adams when we need him? Get to the gist of the matter Lee. This is a scientific list, perhaps you should send him some e mail if youre that lonely. As a matter of fact I dont care about Pteradactals, I delete it every time. As a matter of fact I shouldnt criticize Don, he has made a lot of good posts in the past. Sincere in the art: Harvey D. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net PS; Sorry If I made a mistake. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 14 23:40:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA02717; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:39:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:39:00 -0700 Message-ID: <011a01bdf7f2$9c25a120$998d20a3@hinet.hinet.net> From: "Small White Office" To: Subject: re Who is David Hamel .... Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:01:27 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"4jX-b.0.Mg.3YP9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7033 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: David Hamel invented the "UFO" !!!! He has sold his vedio and book,called Beautify, about his invention. You might like to buy it. You can get more info at Free Energy sites where he was. You may buy them by the site. -----­ì©l¶l¥ó----- ±H¥óªÌ: Dennis Garrett ¦¬¥óªÌ: freenrg-l@eskimo.com ¤é´Á: 1998¦~10¤ë15¤é AM 11:08 ¥D¦®: Re: Hamels 45gallon drum recreation david hamel? who and what? dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 00:07:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA15766; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 00:06:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 00:06:06 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:16:47 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"kjOOJ1.0.As3.TxP9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7034 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Lee wrote: Yes and praise Ishtar in her battle against YVHV the evil god? > >Meat truck Wrote: > >What is the possible meaning of your prognosis? Wre you drinking alcohol.? > >Lee Markland replies: > >How rude, how totally rude. Drinking alcohol? Don't touch the poison at >all. How Rude, and how stereotypically Christian in that rudeness. > snip-- >The meaning of my prognosis. I am a full recovered ex Fundamentalist >Christian and have studied the Babble and read it through a number of >times. In fact I own four versions of it. I find this YVHV evil, >vindictive, jealous, insecure, misogynistic, racist and a mass murderer >that not only condones genocide but encourgages it. > > How can anybody worship a God, who through his supposed inerrant book, >condones incest, slavery, murder, extortion, theft, genocide an all forms >of horror and inhumanity, e.g."Then thou shalt take an awl, and thrust it >through his ear unto the door, and he shall be thy servant for ever. And >also unto thy maidservant thous shalt do likewise (Deut: 15;17,KJV).In >order to minimize the Bibles support for slavery the translators have used >words like slavery, bondsmen etc. instead of the proper and correct word >slave (and this throughout the Bible). The foregoing description of a >frontal lobotomy tells you who originated this practise of creating human >tomatoes. Well, from the FWIW (for what it's worth) Dept. --- If one is inclined to partake of the bible, I would strongly urge one to also consider reading Thomas Paine's AGE OF REASON --- I have found some significant insights in the latter book. ERS From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 01:56:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA05023; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 01:54:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 01:54:12 -0700 From: UNIR2B1@aol.com Message-ID: <893881ca.3625b869@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:55:05 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Motor/generator confusion. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"CEYvs1.0.PE1.pWR9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7035 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Are there different TYPES of DC magnet motor configurations which, subjected to the same test, might yeild different performance results, from which you could draw a more universal/fundamental set of conclusions? Are there any other parameters realtive to "torque" & "power" that might be further segregated for performance analysis? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 01:59:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA06298; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 01:58:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 01:58:05 -0700 Message-Id: <199810150859.EAA28838@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Hamel Headaches. Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 07:02:27 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Cpyd51.0.KY1.TaR9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7036 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I dont understand how anyone can casually construct one of these rotating cone assemblies. J L Naudin has done a great service to all of us in showing coherance of ideas in three dimensions which is amply demonstrated by moving parts at his site. Probably the greatest effort in the world. The idea is expressed in a way to make me wonder whether I truly understand it. The gearing in the scalar generator at first glance makes one wonder if this is a two dimensional idea, but taken in context I am too tired at this late night to even venture that another connotation is being used,which I am sure that I have missed. Too many ideas at one time have caused me to think too much and i have a headache.Sayanara mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 02:00:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA06496; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 01:59:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 01:59:07 -0700 Message-ID: <3626D2A9.EAB2E8FE@ihug.co.nz> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 21:59:22 -0700 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 References: <3.0.5.32.19981014123630.008c5830@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ptoDK3.0.Qb1.QbR9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7037 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is not the place for religon unless it is related to tech or physics, as this is not then please stop this usless thread, as far as Lee's quote from the bible it has quite a different spin if you read it in context. Now can this end here? Please? Lee Markland wrote: > Lee wrote: Yes and praise Ishtar in her battle against YVHV the evil god? > > Meat truck Wrote: > > What is the possible meaning of your prognosis? Wre you drinking alcohol.? > > Lee Markland replies: > > How rude, how totally rude. Drinking alcohol? Don't touch the poison at > all. How Rude, and how stereotypically Christian in that rudeness. > > I hope you my comment was as offensive, as I found the quote below by > N.B. Which is equally rude, self righteous, and offensive to those who > don't share your or the author's beliefs. I have never met anything so > arrogant as a monotheist, self righteous, and of necessity a True Believe > (see Eric Hoffer's book by that name by the way). Monotheists, just because > they choose to believe that their god is The God, believe they have a right > to proslytize their belief. > > Well I object, and find their assumptions and beliefs repugnant. If I MUST > believe then I will chose a god or goddess of my own liking Inanna, Ishtar, > Kali or even Thor, but not that genocidal, racist, misogynistic creation of > Moishe named of YVHV. > > (N.B. God is in charge of this world. The truth is only for those who's > >>ears hear the truth and who's eyes see the truth) > > How dare people assume that God (which is merely a generic name for a > higher power) is their god (usually YVHV) or that their god is "The God. > Such " arrogance has true believers. > > The meaning of my prognosis. I am a full recovered ex Fundamentalist > Christian and have studied the Babble and read it through a number of > times. In fact I own four versions of it. I find this YVHV evil, > vindictive, jealous, insecure, misogynistic, racist and a mass murderer > that not only condones genocide but encourgages it. > > How can anybody worship a God, who through his supposed inerrant book, > condones incest, slavery, murder, extortion, theft, genocide an all forms > of horror and inhumanity, e.g."Then thou shalt take an awl, and thrust it > through his ear unto the door, and he shall be thy servant for ever. And > also unto thy maidservant thous shalt do likewise (Deut: 15;17,KJV).In > order to minimize the Bibles support for slavery the translators have used > words like slavery, bondsmen etc. instead of the proper and correct word > slave (and this throughout the Bible). The foregoing description of a > frontal lobotomy tells you who originated this practise of creating human > tomatoes. > > Anytime anyone feels they have a RIGHT to invoke their concept of God, had > best be prepared for those who don't share their self righteous beliefs. > > Besides most folk who profess belief in religion are really solispists, > knowing their own modification and defining their god and their notion of > that god as suits their own fears and needs. > > Besides to express belief in the Babble, hence YVHV requires circular > reasoning (no wonder the domination of mass gravitarians). Circular Reasoning: > Belief in the Bible is predicated on the belief that it is the word of > YVHV, and that belief is based on the Bible itself. In other words, the > bible is the word of god, because it says so in the Bible. > > Belief in mass gravity is predicated on the belief that mass causes > gravity, and that gravity is what causes mass. No mass no gravity, no > gravity no mass. > > Meat Truck rants on: Are you a female? The name doesn't indicate it. > Perhaps you should clarify your gender. > > To which Lee responds: > > I have already clarified my gender, obviously you don't read the postings > as others do. As regards "should clarify my gender". Why for what purpose? > To fulfill some need in you to stereotype, categorize and label? > > Lee Markland in response to H. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net > > I hope you don't want to continue Mr. Meat Truck. I'm haven't even warmed > up yet and am saving my heavy artillery and the cavalry charge for later. > > . > > At 12:12 AM 10/15/98 -0500, you wrote: > >You wrote: Yes and praise Ishtar in her battle against YVHV the evil god? > >What is the possible meaning of your prognosis? Wre you drinking alcohol.? > >Are you a female? The name doesn't indicate it. Perhaps you should clarify > >your gender. > >Sincerely H. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net > > > >---------- > >> >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > >> >Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 10:39 PM > >> >Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 > >> >(no need for obvious snip) > >My previous post; > >> >>>Can anyone on the lists supply info or verification of DePalma's > >demise? > >> >>>Also I thought I noted that someone said something about Joe Champion > >> >being > >> >>>in jail,does anyone know why this would be? > >> >>> I found the info at Gravity Gate on DePalmer( spelling in > >question) > >> >>>to be most fascinating. The question is that I have is how can > >currents be > >> >>>induced in two manners,both along the axis of rotation of the magnet > >and a > >> >>>radial propagation outwards from the axis. If these currents are > >produced > >> >>>without a lenz law reaction which is what the site and diagram seems > >to > >> >>>indicate, why hasnt this process been widely used. Is there a > >possibility > >> >>>that it is not overunity? This site is at > >> >>>www.starwon.com.au/~rayd/index.htm Any info would be appreciated > >Sincerly > >> >>>HDN mnorris@akron.infi.net > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>N.B. God is in charge of this world. The truth is only for those > >who's > >> >>ears hear the truth and who's eyes see the truth. > >> > >> Yes and praise Ishtar in her battle against YVHV the evil god. > > > > > >Also it is not what what we take from the world that makes us rich, > >but what we we give. HDN (certifiably not a quote from Lee Marvin) > >Sincerly not wishing to be misquoted or miss-identified, > >Harvey D. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 02:06:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA09669; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:05:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:05:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199810150906.FAA20411@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: Motor/generator confusion. Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 07:09:49 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"d2Zh52.0.wM2.7hR9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7038 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes, of course. A primary difference is that of a magnet rotating on the side of a coil versas that of a polar interaction. ---------- > From: UNIR2B1@aol.com > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Motor/generator confusion. > Date: Thursday, October 15, 1998 3:55 AM > > Are there different TYPES of DC magnet motor configurations which, subjected > to the same test, might yeild different performance results, from which you > could draw a more universal/fundamental set of conclusions? Are there any > other parameters realtive to "torque" & "power" that might be further > segregated for performance analysis? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 02:13:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA13307; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:12:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:12:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199810150913.FAA01056@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 07:17:01 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KnAbP1.0.rF3.tnR9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7039 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- > From: John Berry > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 > Date: Thursday, October 15, 1998 11:59 PM > > This is not the place for religon unless it is related to tech or physics, as this > is not then please stop this usless thread, as far as Lee's quote from the bible > it has quite a different spin if you read it in context. > > Now can this end here? Please? I made my apologies to Lee and the matter is dead and null. No further threads are needed by anyone. End of story. HDN mnorris@akron.infi,net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 02:44:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA18928; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:43:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:43:41 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981014123630.008c5830@rockisland.com> References: <199810150210.WAA12553@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:42:55 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"xBZTR3.0.ed4.DFS9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7040 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee - > I find this YVHV evil, vindictive, jealous, > insecure, misogynistic, racist and a mass > murderer that not only condones genocide > but encourgages it. There's no denying this. That's exactly how he is represented in the Bible stories, whether or not there's any reality behind the events described. I find it astonishing how people of biblically oriented faith can so easily overlook these facts. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 02:53:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA21573; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:52:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:52:13 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199810150441.AAA22215@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:51:24 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"h3CVx1.0._G5.DNS9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7041 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Harvey - > Sorry Rick, I didnt write that. Apparently > Lee slipped that in with or without my > consternation. Actually it is my fault in accidently causing my quote block to appear that you wrote that. I knew you didn't and that you just back quoted it with your response. Sorry. I enjoy reading about the ancient myths, and wondering just how much 'reality' there is behind them. Sometimes they seem like just the astronomical/astrological stories most people think they are, with the battles and other events just being fantasies or descriptions of astronomical events observed in the sky, and the players being nothing more than the stars and planets. Other times I'm not so sure about that. I get the creepy crawlies every time I read that ancient East Indian story about the 'nuclear attack', for instance. There's far too many coincidences there to just be coincidence. I don't believe Sitchin and similar philosophies outright, but I have come to believe that our history is really nothing like most of us think it is from our conventional education on the subject. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 03:01:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA24350; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:00:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:00:21 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981015180430.00a4ee80@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:04:30 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: FRONTAL LOBOTOMY !!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981014123630.008c5830@rockisland.com> References: <199810150210.WAA12553@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"r5VQs1.0.Jy5.qUS9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7042 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee wrote: >... and have studied the Babble and read it through a number of >times. In fact I own four versions of it. I find this YVHV evil, >vindictive, jealous, insecure, misogynistic, racist and a mass murderer >that not only condones genocide but encourgages it. > > How can anybody worship a God, who through his supposed inerrant book, >condones incest, slavery, murder, extortion, theft, genocide an all forms >of horror and inhumanity, e.g."Then thou shalt take an awl, and thrust it >through his ear unto the door, and he shall be thy servant for ever. And >also unto thy maidservant thous shalt do likewise (Deut: 15;17,KJV).In >order to minimize the Bibles support for slavery the translators have used >words like slavery, bondsmen etc. instead of the proper and correct word >slave (and this throughout the Bible). The foregoing description of a >frontal lobotomy tells you who originated this practise of creating human >tomatoes. Wow are you screwed up! Since when did ear piercing become "FRONTAL LOBOTOMY"! My daughter has her tongue pierced - I guess you or your source would call that a "decapitation" ? Lets checkout this "proof" that you have presented for this BAD BAD god (actually I thought it was a wise old Jew called Moses who wrote Deuteronomy). The KJV is easily found on the web eg: http://hutch.com.au/~rlister/kjv/deut/deut15.htm Chapter 15: Verse 12 "if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee." Ahh so these so called "slaves" were only "slaves" for a period of seven years. You didn't mention that. I wonder why they were slaves? I expect it was because they owed a lot of money and couldn't repay it so they had to work it off. I think we expect the same thing nowadays, certainly your IRS does ! Verses 13 & 14 "And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty. Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: [of that] wherewith the LORD thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him." Ahh so these slaves are not just sent away free but they are to be given a mighty golden handshake. Hey that is new way of treating slaves. Is that the way your (American) ancestors treated your slaves in the good old bible believing and obeying U. S. of A ? Verses 15 & 16 "And it shall be, if he say unto thee, I will not go away from thee; because he loveth thee and thine house, because he is well with thee, Then thou shalt take an aul, and ...." Ahh so it was only if their master had treated them so well and they loved him so dearly that they wanted to serve him for the REST OF THEIR LIVES that this little ear piercing ceremony ("frontal lobotamy" according to Lee Markland) was done! I guess your (American) ancestors didn't have much call for such a ceremony. I wonder why!!! Checkout verse 1 and 2 of this same chapter. Apparently all debts owed to ones countrymen were to be written of after 7 years !!!!! Read elsewhere - no interest to be charged on loans - social security in the form of free food for the very poor and strangers from the "tithes" (taxes). Hey man, was this a humanitarian god or what! I think their social setup had significant improvements over our modern "enlightened" societies. So I guess we can safely assume that the rest of your "prognosis" will be as well backed up as the one point that you took the trouble to "prove" with chapter and verse, if one can be bothered to look carefully into the details and the cultural background. Ahh but reading through more carefully I see now that it was the "Babble" that you had read through a number of times and had 4 versions of. My mistake, I have not read that book. Maybe it was written by someone with as much care for accuracy of information as you seem to have. :) What worries me, and is at least ON TOPIC for this forum, is how trustworthy is the rest of the information that you fill this list with. I was going to pick you up for your assertion that Marinov "strangled him self to death with a hose" but someone else saved me the trouble. Full marks for doing some research and putting the record as straight as possible. But it is much preferred if you can just do a quick check BEFORE you broadcast your assertions. At least read through what you have written before pressing send and if you are not quite sure then protect your reputation with "if I remember correctly" so that readers who read the first assertion and miss the correction, are at least left with some doubt in the certainty of the assertion, and should check for themselves if they want to be sure. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 03:02:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA25532; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:01:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:01:47 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199810150859.EAA28838@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 00:01:02 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Hamel Headaches. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id DAA25512 Resent-Message-ID: <"IBiem.0.qE6.BWS9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7043 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Harvey - > I dont understand how anyone can casually > construct one of these rotating cone > assemblies. Here is a cross-post from a NG that someone put on Vortex-L. I figure there's some similarity between this and the Hamel device. If it is a functional equivalent, then it's obviously a real easy thing to build. The post's probably just flame-bait though, but who knows. > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > From: ecogen@iol.ie (Chris Eccles) Newsgroups: > sci.physics.electromag Subject: Mystified by Results Date: Mon, 5 > Oct 1998 08:49:02 +0100 Organization: genesis Message-ID: > <1dgf37j.1qva74l1r4wg9uN@dialup-042.ennis.iol.ie> > NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-042.ennis.iol.ie Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: MacSOUP 2.3 > Lines: 44 Xref: hub1.ispnews.com sci.physics.electromag:8005 > > I don't often post to news but, this time, I feel that someone out there > might offer me an answer to a wierd outcome of an experiment. > > I have spent my entire career in mainstream physics research and > have always been amused (often annoyed) by the "crankies" who > believe in teleportation, spoon-bending, etc etc etc, and have > consistently held the view that these fringe things belong firmly > outside what I call physics. > > A few weeks back, my lab assistant got some stuff off the net about a > "magneto-gravity" device, accompanied by some notes by Tom > Bearden. This swatch of paper was lying about in the lab office and I > happened to read it. Out of nothing but bemused interest, I said to > my team, "Lets build this crap and see what happens...." > > We constructed a variant of the device shown in the drawings which > accompanied the data. This consisted of a Duralumin disc (350mm > dia) which could be spun on a motor shaft, using a Picador bearing > which we had lying about. The disc was made to spin 1.5mm > eccentric and was fitted with twelve button magnets around its > periphery, with all their N poles facing outwards, by fixing the > magnets to 90-degree offcuts of alloy angle. The whole thing was > then mechanically balanced by adding extra thin strips of copper > busbar (!) to compensate for the eccenticity. When tested, the disc > displayed some imbalance but this was easily corrected until we had > it running smoothly at 2850 rpm from a mains-powered 750W > motor. So far so good. > > We then rigged an enclosing fence of alloy strip around the disc, on > which we mounted twelve more button magnets with their S poles > facing inwards. The clearance between the disc-mounted magnets > and the peripheral ones varied by ±0.75mm as the disc turned. > > The whole shazam was mounted on an acrylic baseplate and weighed. > It was 14.26 kg. When we switched the motor in, the weird shit > happened. The balance showed a loss of grav mass of the assembly of > some 550 grams (3.85%) and every computer terminal and > fluorescent lamp in the lab went ape ! > > Is this real, or should I take a holiday ? > > Can anyone offer an explanation ? > > > Chris - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 03:30:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA00511; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:29:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:29:00 -0700 From: UNIR2B1@aol.com Message-ID: <9b03ccbb.3625cea9@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 06:30:01 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Chris-- Re: Re: PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY NOW FORMING... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"T_1BL3.0.Z7.ivS9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7044 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris-- I'm replying because of your inerest, and because you wrote: >Personally I'm all for communicating and cooperating, and I'd be more than >happy to help out these efforts any way I can... We wish to form an assemble of people who are imaginative yet *scientific*, thus I posted on frenrg-l & votex-l. Based on solid law & gov't studies, I know that the threat of imminent social breakdown is *real*. Increasingly, people are seeing the need to form gatherings for isolation from the general population, mutual defense, and mutual inaccessibility in the event of being communicatively & transpotationally cut off. Knowing that cooperative, diversified effort yields efficiency & surplusses, I'm essentially *using* the current predicament as an *opportunity* to assemble people who wish reconfigure their lifestyle based on independently produced energy, food, etc. (which would portend immediate enhancements in quality of life). You've expressed a realistic awareness of the social pitfalls of such an endeavor. If I proved that they can be avoided, would you be interested in relocating? In a message dated 98-10-11 07:40:34 EDT, Chris wrote: >Hi Russ, > >I've contemplated this type of idea myself over the years, but decided >against it. The reason is one of basic human nature. Any time you get a >group of people together - even the simplest business partnership - that >group begins to create a heirarchy...and >everybody very rapidly loses their focus on why they got together in the >first place. Power and control become the one and only focus within a >matter of hours. ...Barring some evolutionary jump with >respect to the human ego, ..the >pending world crises are not going to be enough to curtail this trait... You have correctly cited the crucial frailty that characterizes the "animals that call themselves men" (Illuminati terminology), the common failing through which the masses have been deceived, enslaved and exploited. Humanity, however, IS "tied together." Until now, the collective nature of our destiny has been implicit; very soon, it will be a fact. We will either bond peaceably, or be yoked forcibly. The "suicidal" course, therefore, is failure to voluntarily opt for the former...and for once, to learn how! Rather than succumbing to anarchy under the prejudice that hierarchies are intrinsically bad--whereupon we are remanded to the US hierarchy--we must learn *how* to form voluntary hierarchies based on mutual Reason rather than personal wills. >...The lure of knowing the potential of such a group is very >enticing. But in actual practice, people either seek shelter >or control - or both - at >the expense of the group...they don't know any >other way to function. Fortunately, there *is* 'another way to function’; it has merely been suppressed and ensconced as an occult secret of the ruling class. Firstly, you characterized the problem vaguely, as "one of basic human nature." Then you defined it as a deficiency in people's 'knowledge of how to function.' Now--pinpoint elements of that knowledge, apply it to the situation at hand, implement the resolution, and you unlock the 'enticing potential of such a group'. Mentality is progressive--it moves from the mythological and descriptive to the definitive and precise. By advancing from the vague to the specific, you have already demonstrated the process that obviates the symptoms you cited--and you needed no statutorial government to coerce you into doing it!. The underlying problem is always: 1) peoples’ *ignorance* of this process, and 2) their *unwillingness* to uphold it until peaceable, elegant, and creative resolutions transpire. >...whatever goal you had in mind is not being >diminished. I'm only negating the mechanics >of how you reach it as far as >this particular method. >Any goal is achievable. >It's only a matter of >certain methods being a guaranteed failure. >There are always other methods >to consider. OK; here goes. Sartre said, "There are no situations that are not *human* situations." Neither is there humanity without governance. To our collective shame, 'governance' has devolved into governMENT, an entity that has now infiltrated all human situations. The US, Inc. (chartered in 1871, and henceforth operating in perpetual bankruptcy & annual reorganization under a policy of "national emergency") has restrained progress, suppressed discoveries, made debt-slaves of our children, and made propaganda machines of the mass media, organized religion, and the public schools (Treaty of Verona, etc.). The government speaks in legalese--note that Ballantine's Law dictionary defines "the public" as 'the blind, credulous masses who are NOT GOVERNED BY REASON, but base their decisions on emotion and superficial appearances...' It is legally precise to say that the US is a regime of military occupation for controlling the lawless. As intractable children grow into miscreants, parental discipline has grown into the police state. OTOH, it is natural for those of who have internalized parental admonitions to against anti-social behavior to graduate beyond being mere, obedient functionaries, and advance to forming autonomous groups enjoying solidarity of convictions. No *institutional* government--esp. the US--has succeeded in uniting men (notwithstanding the benevolent powers envisioned by Aristotle & Thomas Aquinas) because true Peace pre-exists institutions. Its essence lies not in force, nor in the subjective vision of a charismatic, but in the commonality and universality of Reason, which mirrors the uniform and omnipresent attributes of Nature. Properly understood, this the focus of the Bible (“The kingdom of Heaven is within you”). Whoever would escape the genocidal policies US/UN must learn the Law of Reason. This is so, because escaping the population control measures implemented by the the FDA, CDC, WHO, etc. requires generating our own sustenance and services, which requires pooling effort, which presupposes self-governance, which will not be sustainable unless we defer to a government that is more durable, congruent, and objective than the US, the Vatican, or any institutional contrivance. The Law of Reason is a simple, cyclical pattern. We here have adopted Hegel's term it, the Dialectic. Although I profferred contributions to its reduction to formula, the result is a dogma that precludes all dogmatism. Unlike statutory law, the Dialectic works best when you don't realize it's at work. For now, the important thing to remember about it is that it provides, in all things, a nexus to true lawfulness; so that all who would invoke it might be saved from the discord adn anarchy that results from ultimate reliance on arbitrary will. As such, it is a source of governance and counsel by God himself, reaching into the lives of whoever ‘asks, seeks, and knocks’, culminating in access to the same source of inspiration that has informed exemplars and visionaries from the early prophets to Einstein. Hence, the term ‘PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY’--it's actually redundant, a tautology! :-) --Russ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 03:52:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA12294; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:51:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:51:29 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981015180430.00a4ee80@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> References: <3.0.5.32.19981014123630.008c5830@rockisland.com> <199810150210.WAA12553@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 00:50:42 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: BOTTLE INFRONTOME !!!!!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"mTTnG3.0.__2.mET9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7045 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee has some good points to make, but sometimes does get facts a little mixed up. Had the earth spinning backwards the other day, for instance. All good fun if taken in the right context. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 04:03:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA15135; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:02:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:02:08 -0700 From: UNIR2B1@aol.com Message-ID: <8adbf98a.3625d65d@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 07:02:53 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Chris: PROGRESSIVE...DISREGARD previous post; I forgot to proofread... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"AnMor3.0.Oi3.lOT9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7046 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-10-11 07:40:34 EDT, Chris wrote: >Hi Russ, > >I've contemplated this type of idea myself over the years, but decided >against it. The reason is one of basic human nature. Any time you get a >group of people together - even the simplest business partnership - that >group begins to create a heirarchy of power and authority that rapidly >overshadows their reason for joining together in the first place. A power >structure begins to form the minute a group is established; you get the >shepherds who become tyrants, the followers who become whimpy sheep, and >everybody very rapidly loses their focus on why they got together in the >first place. Power and control become the one and only focus within a >matter of hours. It's human nature and barring some evolutionary jump with >respect to the human ego, it will never change under any circumstances. The >pending world crises are not going to be enough to curtail this trait in >people. You I wouldn't dispute your characterization of it, but I'd attribute the debacle to *one side* of human nature--"the life unexamined" in Socrates' phrase, or "...the heart of man [that] is desperately wicked" described by Jeremiah--rather than the whole of it. unexamined unmanaged "human nature" are doubtlessly is obviously inerrant >It's sometimes very difficult to consider this aspect of joining together >with others. The lure of knowing the potential of such a group is very >enticing. But in actual practice, people are people and they don't know any >other way to function. They either seek shelter or control - or both - at >the expense of the group. We don't usually factor this into our predictions >of what could be possible. > >Personally I'm all for communicating and cooperating, and I'd be more than >happy to help out these efforts any way I can. But having a group "tied >together" in any ongoing way is suicidal. I don't consider myself as >cynical on this matter, since whatever goal you had in mind is not being >diminished. I'm only negating the mechanics of how you reach it as far as >this particular method. Any goal is achievable. It's only a matter of >certain methods being a guaranteed failure. There are always other methods >to consider. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 04:54:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA25061; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:53:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:53:47 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <593c172a.3625e253@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 07:53:55 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: About the Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 129 Resent-Message-ID: <"A40n11.0.V76.A9U9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7047 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, For going further in the exploration the Tesla's technologies, I have updated my web site with some informations about the Nikola Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter and his principle at: http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/tmt.htm I think that this will interest you, Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 05:29:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA32759; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 05:18:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 05:18:24 -0700 Message-ID: <3625E83B.6F6CB928@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 20:19:07 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, szymanek@connect.ab.ca Subject: Re: Hamels 45gallon drum recreation References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-UyWk2.0.i_7.FWU9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7048 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:09 PM 10/13/98 -0600, szymanek@connect.ab.ca wrote: >Hello all. My name is Justin and this is my frist post on this list. >Anyway, since I first heard about David Hamel I was very excited and >wished to re-create his devices. I build the Hamel spinner and now am >attempting to re-create his 45 gallon drum experiment. I have desided to You said you built the Hamel spinner. Did it work? If it did, then it's great news! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 08:21:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA11194; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 08:19:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 08:19:49 -0700 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhQsUF12hnaGoo7CefUg0waFZ3YXeQIVAIgNN7l7cOr9DSiqg3tXkrGxp/Hh From: dennisgarrett@webtv.net (Dennis Garrett) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 08:21:23 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: FRONTAL LOBOTOMY !!!!!!! Message-ID: <27308-362612F3-7602@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"AL1tf2.0.ok2.KAX9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7049 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: john, interesting post. can you blow away the lords homocidal and genocidal proclivities as easily? even down to the killing of the conquered cities animals? yhvh doesn't seem to run the kind of pace i'd want to live in. how about the killing of children for the teasing of a bald headed priest (or whatever he was). god seems to be a psychopathic schizophrenic who changes his mind like women change their clothes. (no offense, ladies) Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 09:41:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA12051; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:29:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:29:14 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19981015162904.006a7b28@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:29:04 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: Hamels 45gallon drum recreation Resent-Message-ID: <"ef_uB2.0.9y2.PBY9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7051 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:19 PM 10/15/98 +0800, you wrote: > >You said you built the Hamel spinner. Did it work? If it did, then it's >great news! > > The Hammel spinner is a simple toy anyone can build and observe. Not much accuracy needed in it's building either. The 45 gallon drum experiment is suspect in my book thou. If I could build a gadget in my backyard that would take off into space I would not stop there. I would build another and try to control it. Not jump around to different projects. I have seen large crates of magnets at Hammels home so I know he has the materials to recreate his experiment if he wished. My confusion is why dosn't he? I have said this about Searl too. Perhaps Dennis Lee can explain this as he seems to have contact with the good professer. Hammel has also stated that his designs must be built in large sizes as the priciples will not work if scaled down. Good luck in your experiments if you need help just ask. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 09:44:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA12024; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:29:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:29:12 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19981015162902.006b5210@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:29:02 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: FRONTAL LOBOTOMY !!!!!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"mw7H-1.0.Px2.GBY9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7050 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:04 PM 10/15/98 +0800, you wrote: > >Wow are you screwed up! Since when did ear piercing become "FRONTAL >LOBOTOMY"! My daughter has her tongue pierced - I guess you or your >source would call that a "decapitation" ? > >Lets checkout this "proof" that you have presented for this BAD BAD >god (actually I thought it was a wise old Jew called Moses who wrote >Deuteronomy). The KJV is easily found on the web eg: >http://hutch.com.au/~rlister/kjv/deut/deut15.htm > >Chapter 15: Verse 12 Wasn't it last year we had a flame war with a guy who was getting his free energy designs straight from his gods mouth. I may be out of line and am prepared for some heat on this but can we get back to free energy discussions. Keep our beliefs in other powers off this list, past experience has shown it to to be nonconstructive. There has been a lot of babble on this list for the past few months. There should be other lists to discuss space travel,dinasaurs, and what not. We have gradually let off topics take over the list. Off topics are fine when things on the list get slow but how about keeping a focus on free energy. That is where my interests lie and that is why I signed up for this list. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 10:13:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA09533; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:10:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:10:35 -0700 Message-ID: <000401bdf866$0e4816c0$65277f0a@RobPolley.telusplanet.net> From: "Rob Polley" To: Subject: Re: Muller Magnetic Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:03:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"94pkN2.0.nK2.AoY9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7052 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A couple of years ago someone on this list set up a page for a Canadian inventor in Penticton B.C. named Muller, I would like to follow up on some of the information that was presented, if anyone can give me a name or current URL I would appreciate it. Thanks Rob From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 10:26:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA20458; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:24:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:24:13 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDF826.1E4BED20@uzl.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Muller Magnetic Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:25:22 -0700 Encoding: 9 TEXT, 36 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Resent-Message-ID: <"Kgp-52.0.Z_4.y-Y9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7053 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rob Polley wrote: >A couple of years ago someone on this list set up a page for a Canadian >inventor in Penticton B.C. named Muller, I would like to follow up on some >of the information that was presented, if anyone can give me a name or >current URL I would appreciate it. a quick Web search on Penticton and Muller and magnet came up with: http://www.polar.bc.ca/magnet/ begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A<1`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`( $```$````,`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&9R965N# $````%````4TU44 `````>`!\,`0```!<` M``!D97%U:6-K97)T0'5C9&%V:7,N961U```#``80Y(B(L0,`!Q I`0``'@`( M$ $```!E````4D]"4$],3$595U)/5$4Z04-/55!,14]&645!4E-!1T]33TU% M3TY%3TY42$E33$E35%-%5%5005!!1T5&3U)!0T%.041)04Y)3E9%3E1/4DE. M4$5.5$E#5$].0D-.04U%1$U53 `````"`0D0`0```! "```,`@``E0,``$Q: M1G55Q%A%_P`*`0\"%0*D`^0%ZP*#`% 3`U0"`&-H"L!S973N,@8`!L,"@S(# MQ@<3`H-&,P/%`@!P-0* "H$-L0M@;F 9 70=1Y!@ A@;"M@)(#>:R*0*< EH1:P;P?@)1'O) $C@B:? M)Z1O* \AQ"+ _R0P(I +@"6Q`, J8"0#,<#]'H!A!" 4P >0*:$)@"O@4P:0 M(S!N>2/"8P.19WII*9 @!X E,2LB(J!R=RX?)Z\A:F,(_QU(.E4))4!Q=2IP:R!79?\>`!'P"L 1L"/R*C@` M<"MF^SYC`,!G(] X$33R)1$#\! X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:25:14 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Reply to Lee In-Reply-To: <199810150457.AAA19261@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"lnPgP3.0.t43.kYZ9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7054 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There you go again. 1. I don't know Don Adams hence have no idea of whom you are talking 2. I am definitely not lonely 3. The Pterodactyl post had to do with evidences that gravity has diminished, and hence not a property of mass, hence of relevance to free energy research. Lee Your apology accepted, I realized late that you had not read, or if you had, you just glossed over the previous post and if you had you would have realized why I replied as I did. I thought that you were taking exception, to the exception I took to N.B.'s comment. I will confess to being human and knee jerking in reaction - lo siento, perdona me. I'm sorry, excuse me :) At 03:00 AM 10/15/98 -0500, you wrote: > Where is Don Adams when we need him? Get to the gist of the matter Lee. >This is a scientific list, perhaps you should send him some e mail if youre >that lonely. As a matter of fact I dont care about Pteradactals, I delete >it every time. As a matter of fact I shouldnt criticize Don, he has made a >lot of good posts in the past. Sincere in the art: Harvey D. Norris >mnorris@akron.infi.net >PS; Sorry If I made a mistake. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 11:05:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA12848; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:02:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:02:44 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981014025718.00a36e60@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:57:18 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: FRONTAL LOBOTOMY !!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981015180430.00a4ee80@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> References: <3.0.5.32.19981014123630.008c5830@rockisland.com> <199810150210.WAA12553@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"pQ-WH1.0.f83.4ZZ9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7057 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:04 PM 10/15/98 +0800, John Winterflood wrote: I've been forced to respond because of the ad hominem nature of your response, otherwise I would be just as happy to drop the subject. But I was "attacking" belief, in specific belief in the Babble. You chose to (in the manner of Xtians) to turn that into a personal attack on myself and my credibility. So long as you have a need to personalize the impersonal I will be forced to continue "the war" if that is what you wish. Been arguing with Xtians and other True Believers for years, they invariably resort to personal attacks, rather than address the issues raised. Then again Eric Hoffer,True Believer, specifically points out that such is to be expected, it never fails, and thus the True Believer proves by their own actions, the fraility and lack of basis for their beliefs. My responses Below. >Lee wrote: > >>... and have studied the Babble and read it through a number of >>times. In fact I own four versions of it. I find this YVHV evil, >>vindictive, jealous, insecure, misogynistic, racist and a mass murderer >>that not only condones genocide but encourgages it. >> >> How can anybody worship a God, who through his supposed inerrant book, >>condones incest, slavery, murder, extortion, theft, genocide an all forms >>of horror and inhumanity, e.g."Then thou shalt take an awl, and thrust it >>through his ear unto the door, and he shall be thy servant for ever. And >>also unto thy maidservant thous shalt do likewise (Deut: 15;17,KJV).In >>order to minimize the Bibles support for slavery the translators have used >>words like slavery, bondsmen etc. instead of the proper and correct word >>slave (and this throughout the Bible). The foregoing description of a >>frontal lobotomy tells you who originated this practise of creating human >>tomatoes. > >Wow are you screwed up! Since when did ear piercing become "FRONTAL >LOBOTOMY"! My daughter has her tongue pierced - I guess you or your >source would call that a "decapitation" ? Driving an awl into the ear is hardly earpiercing, and pray tell how could piercing an ear create a perfect slave? By the way, your YVHV is a racist, if you read the old testament and Torah completely, and in its own lights. Here is a comment from another listserve: "I've been told as a little boy in Sunday school that it was the chosen peoples. But who are the chosen people? Is god a racist to have one people above all others? Just more intrigue folks" john/Sammy" If you read again Deuteronmy, you will find that these "slaves" for seven years, were only Hebrews. And that every seven years, there was a "Jubilee" year in which debts incurred by Hebrews were forgiven, and that servants and bondsmen that were Hebrews, were set free. This applied only to the Hebrews and did not apply to the gentiles. You quote Chapter 15, but omit verse 3: "From a foreigner you may exact it, but your hand shall release whatever is yours with your brother". Foreigner is another term for gentile, or in Ashkenazim terms "goyim". Deuteronomy was a set of instructions for intertribal relationships, people bound together by a common bond of race and belief, as is indeed the Old Testament. Further, read again Deuteronmy 15:17, "and he shall be your slave forever". This is quite different from 15:18, as regards setting servants free. Also one is instructed to thrust an awl through the ear to the door. A door is an entranceway. It is ludicruous to even think that one is being instructed to pin one's servant to the door of a house by use of an awl and thus keep him a servant forever. (Visualize a person pinned to a door by an awl through his or her earlobe). Reading Deuteronomy in its total context there are two standards 1. As regards treatment and relations between Hebrews and gentiles and another as regards treatment and relations between members of the tribe. Jump over to Leviticus, especially Chapter 25 for further clarification of the differences in treatment of genitles and tribal members. Leviticus 25:39, "And if a countryman of yours (meaning of course a tribal member) becomes so poor with regard to you that he sells himself to you, you shall not subject him to a slave's service". Leviticus 25 44:45 "As for your male and female slaves whom you may have - you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations around you." "Then, too, it is out of the sons of the sojourners who live as aliens among you that you may gain acquisition, and out of their families who are with you, whom they will have produced in your land; they may also become your possession", "You may even bequeath them to your sons after you, to receive as a possession; you can use them as permanent slaves. But in respect to your countrymen, the sons of Israel, you shall not rule with severity over one another.". This is quite a different situation than the case you are trying to make. I have four Bibles in my house, thus no need to download. The most interesting one is the British Israel Bible, translated from the original Hebrew, Chaldee and Greek, in 1908 by Ferrar Fenton. Consider the implications of this translation: Leviticus 18 verse 23. "And a woman shall not place herself to the face of a beast to copulate. IT IS INCEST." The implication is obvious, women are considered beasts. My American ancestors had no slaves, BTW. As regards the bit about Marinov strangling himself, it really isn't that important, you are setting up a "strawman". Someone died by strangling themself with a hose, I thought it was Marinov - (I just don't pay attention to "gossip"), but I found the original post I had received as to his death and posted it. Your attempt to make an issue out of that is a total non sequitur. But I guess you are perfect, and never had a memory lapse or a confusion of facts or events. Be careful you will have to live up to the standard that you are setting. The problem with Babble believers is that they are highly selective and shop freely through their holy scriptures for those words that justify their needs and assuage their fears, and ignore inconveniences like Acts 2 44:45, or Acts 4 32:35 and practically all of Leviticus (except of course those isolated versus which they find useful for their own purposes). Acts 2 44:45 "All whose faith had drawn them together held everything in common: they would sell their property and possessions and make a general distribution as the need of each required". Karl Marx: "From each according to his ability to each according to his need". Here is an interesting phrase from 1st Corinthians 7:36. "But if any man thinks THAT HE IS ACTING UNBECOMINGLY TOWARD his virgin daughter, if she should be of full age, and if it must be so, LET HIM DO AS HE WISHES, he does not sin; let her marry. (American Standard Bible). I've read that chapter time and again in context, and find nothing in it that detracts from the connotation, that a man can have his way with his own daughter, if she be of full age. Finally: YOU TOTALLY IGNORE THE CIRCULARITY OF REASONING REQUIRED TO PROFESS BELIEF IN THE BIBLE. Lee > >Lets checkout this "proof" that you have presented for this BAD BAD >god (actually I thought it was a wise old Jew called Moses who wrote >Deuteronomy). The KJV is easily found on the web eg: >http://hutch.com.au/~rlister/kjv/deut/deut15.htm > >Chapter 15: Verse 12 > "if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold > unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh > year thou shalt let him go free from thee." > >Ahh so these so called "slaves" were only "slaves" for a period of >seven years. You didn't mention that. I wonder why they were slaves? >I expect it was because they owed a lot of money and couldn't repay it >so they had to work it off. I think we expect the same thing nowadays, >certainly your IRS does ! > >Verses 13 & 14 > "And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt > not let him go away empty. Thou shalt furnish him liberally > out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy > winepress: [of that] wherewith the LORD thy God hath blessed > thee thou shalt give unto him." > >Ahh so these slaves are not just sent away free but they are to be >given a mighty golden handshake. Hey that is new way of treating >slaves. Is that the way your (American) ancestors treated your slaves >in the good old bible believing and obeying U. S. of A ? > >Verses 15 & 16 > "And it shall be, if he say unto thee, I will not go away from > thee; because he loveth thee and thine house, because he is > well with thee, Then thou shalt take an aul, and ...." > >Ahh so it was only if their master had treated them so well and >they loved him so dearly that they wanted to serve him for the REST >OF THEIR LIVES that this little ear piercing ceremony ("frontal >lobotamy" according to Lee Markland) was done! > >I guess your (American) ancestors didn't have much call for such a >ceremony. I wonder why!!! > >Checkout verse 1 and 2 of this same chapter. Apparently all debts >owed to ones countrymen were to be written of after 7 years !!!!! >Read elsewhere - no interest to be charged on loans - social >security in the form of free food for the very poor and strangers >from the "tithes" (taxes). > >Hey man, was this a humanitarian god or what! I think their social >setup had significant improvements over our modern "enlightened" >societies. > >So I guess we can safely assume that the rest of your "prognosis" >will be as well backed up as the one point that you took the trouble >to "prove" with chapter and verse, if one can be bothered to look >carefully into the details and the cultural background. > >Ahh but reading through more carefully I see now that it was the >"Babble" that you had read through a number of times and had 4 >versions of. My mistake, I have not read that book. Maybe it was >written by someone with as much care for accuracy of information as >you seem to have. :) > >What worries me, and is at least ON TOPIC for this forum, is how >trustworthy is the rest of the information that you fill this >list with. I was going to pick you up for your assertion that >Marinov "strangled him self to death with a hose" but someone else >saved me the trouble. Full marks for doing some research and >putting the record as straight as possible. But it is much >preferred if you can just do a quick check BEFORE you broadcast >your assertions. At least read through what you have written >before pressing send and if you are not quite sure then protect >your reputation with "if I remember correctly" so that readers who >read the first assertion and miss the correction, are at least >left with some doubt in the certainty of the assertion, and should >check for themselves if they want to be sure. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 11:05:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA12708; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:02:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:02:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981014003310.00a30b20@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:33:10 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: re Who is David Hamel .... In-Reply-To: <011a01bdf7f2$9c25a120$998d20a3@hinet.hinet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id LAA12627 Resent-Message-ID: <"PABuN3.0.G63.pYZ9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7056 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I thought the NAZI's invented the Flying Saucer (if that is what is meant by UFO,) could you elucidate please. When (what year) Did David Hamel invent the UFO". Do you have a specific site that you can reference? Lee At 12:01 PM 10/15/98 +0800, you wrote: >David Hamel invented the "UFO" !!!! >He has sold his vedio and book,called Beautify, about his invention. >You might like to buy it. >You can get more info at Free Energy sites where he was. >You may buy them by the site. > >-----­ì©l¶l¥ó----- >±H¥óªÌ: Dennis Garrett >¦¬¥óªÌ: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >¤é´Á: 1998¦~10¤ë15¤é AM 11:08 >¥D¦®: Re: Hamels 45gallon drum recreation > > >david hamel? >who and what? >dennis > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 11:06:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA12663; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:02:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:02:26 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981014001142.00a32350@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:11:42 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Mystery Force Is Traced To Satellites' Waste Heat Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"iRebo2.0.c53.nYZ9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7055 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yet another reason for the slowing of spacecraft. Seems that "they" don't know for sure, but keep theorizing. Source: New Scientist Issue 17th October 1998 Author: Charles Seife UK Contact: Claire Bowles, claire.bowles@rbi.co.uk, 44-171-331-2751 US Contact: Barbara Thurlow, newscidc@idt.net, 202-452-1178 Mystery Force Is Traced To Satellites' Waste Heat GRAVITY appears to be working as everyone always thought, much to physicists' relief. The unexpected slowing of distant spacecraft reported last month may have a simple explanation. It could be caused by heat, say a physicist and an astronomer. In September, John Anderson of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory near Los Angeles announced that the spacecraft -- Pioneer 10, Pioneer 11, Ulysses and perhaps Galileo -- were slowing down faster than expected as they travelled away from the Sun. Physicists wondered if this meant they would have to rewrite the equations of gravity (This Week, 12 September, p 4). But now two scientists have suggested an alternative solution. The spacecraft have plutonium-based radioisotope thermoelectric generators (RTGs) to power them. Resistance in the spacecraft's circuits turns some of the electrical power produced by the RTGs into heat. To get rid of it, the spacecraft are fitted with louvred fins that open when they get hot and radiate the heat away, according to Edward Murphy, an astronomer at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland. The radiators face away from the Sun, so most radiation is emitted in this direction. Murphy says the departing photons give the spacecraft a small push in the opposite direction, towards the Sun, slowing them down. He believes the amount of radiation leaving the spacecraft could easily account for the observed push. "It's pretty close, and within observational errors," he says. Jonathan Katz of Washington University in St Louis, Missouri, also blames heat -- in this case, the heat wasted because of the RTGs' inefficiency at turning thermal energy into electricity. He points out that the satellites have large antennas that point to the Earth, and that the RTGs sit just off to the side. "The radiation can bounce off the back of the antenna and push the spacecraft towards Earth," he says. Both Katz and Murphy have submitted their calculations to Physical Review Letters. But Anderson, who had last month ruled out a heat effect as the cause of the deceleration, is still unconvinced by the new arguments. "You can't get the force you need," he says. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 11:18:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA21629; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:13:17 -0700 (PDT) MR-Received: by mta SOCCER; Relayed; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:59:06 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:59:50 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:51:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: FRONTAL LOBOTOMY !!!!!!! In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19981015180430.00a4ee80@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:59:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E1779ZXPMJZZ15 X400-MTS-identifier: [;60953151018991/3287202@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"DMusQ3.0.pH5.xiZ9s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7058 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All, I have always been amused by the most educated & otherwise brilliant amongst us, criticizing the decisions and actions of God. It is like the Z80 based computer disagreeing with a 1 million member Crey Supercomputer Cluster. Bill ________________________________________________________/////___________ | William E. Briggs Jr. | ~ ~ | | webriggs@concentric.net | -@-@- | |-------------------------|---------------------------ooo--U--ooo--------| | XLN Systems, Inc. |Ideas presented are my own hair brained ideas,| | Columbus, OH |and not the hair brained ideas of my employer.| ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 12:18:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA25611; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:09:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:09:26 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <185260ec.362647a3@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:06:11 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Site update, new design Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Resent-Message-ID: <"lv8WI3.0.4G6.bXa9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7059 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: New design on site, operational description now being typed, testing in progress. LaFonte Research Site 1 http://members.aol.com/HLafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 12:23:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA29731; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:19:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:19:30 -0700 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhQdYLfdBcRBgusWXyR0kD/UwCPjEwIUEq3IqrF6q0wVrYDwetC1Ap7qLME= From: dennisgarrett@webtv.net (Dennis Garrett) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:20:51 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: FRONTAL LOBOTOMY !!!!!!! Message-ID: <27308-36264B13-8769@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"lOEkx3.0.TG7.1ha9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7060 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: bil, i long ago gave up trying to reason with people who fob everything on god. god was a babylonian name for the devil, by the way. happy worship. Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 12:31:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA00084; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:26:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:26:52 -0700 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:27:28 -0400 From: uban@world.std.com (Jim Uban) Message-Id: <199810151927.AA05759@world.std.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: FRONTAL LOBOTOMY !!!!!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"mY3mt3.0.31.xna9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7061 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than have a frontal lobotomy. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 12:36:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA04478; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:32:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:32:34 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981014030841.00a3d300@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 03:08:41 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: FRONTAL LOBOTOMY !!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <27308-362612F3-7602@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"DtpRK1.0.e51.Gta9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7062 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:21 AM 10/15/98 -0700, you wrote: >john, >interesting post. >can you blow away the lords homocidal and genocidal proclivities as >easily? even down to the killing of the conquered cities animals? yhvh >doesn't seem to run the kind of pace i'd want to live in. >how about the killing of children for the teasing of a bald headed >priest (or whatever he was). >god seems to be a psychopathic schizophrenic who changes his mind like >women change their clothes. (no offense, ladies) >Dennis No offense taken Dennis. Hey, we change our clothes because we think that is what you want? Or at least "I" did until my 2nd Retirement - no more tight and short skirts, just sweats John didn't blow anything away. He just did what theologians are so adept at doing, selectively shopping and playing ventriloguist, putting their own meaning into the mouth of their god. Leviticus gives clarity to the intent of Deuteronomy, and taking it all in its whole, and not of context, there is a clear set of instructions that seperates out the status of the gentile and the chosen. Of course those, whom choose to believe for their own purposes, will define themselves as the chosen, despite the preponderance of evidence to the contrary. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 12:50:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA13450; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:45:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:45:38 -0700 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAgn6G6Rrjb45IDmNTnZJBHOJEE0kCFFoofHxBdZtgdo1Sv4vD3MyjEjTU From: dennisgarrett@webtv.net (Dennis Garrett) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:46:28 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: FRONTAL LOBOTOMY !!!!!!! Message-ID: <27309-36265114-6951@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"LRXmO1.0.4I3.Y3b9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7063 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hi lee. i know what you mean. i've retired from that arena my own self. sure, you lose a couple of things. what you get is your peace and quiet and your freedom of choice and your autonomy back. Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 12:50:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA14222; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:47:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:47:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199810151948.PAA006.23@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> From: Charlie Hodgson Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:24:02 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: FRONTAL LOBOTOMY !!!!!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.50 b48 (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"KGem_3.0.1U3.S5b9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7064 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In , on 10/15/98 at 01:51 PM, Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 said: >I have always been amused by the most educated & otherwise brilliant >amongst us, criticizing the decisions and actions of God. >It is like the Z80 based computer disagreeing with a 1 million member >Crey Supercomputer Cluster. Ahhh. The infallible computer vs. the infallible G-D It's blind faith in the '1 million member Crey Supercomputer Cluster' that will cause you to believe that 10/10 = 0.999999999999999999. It's bigger so it must be correct. Right? If you want to get technical, I'd have more faith in the Z80 since it is less complex. Less parts to break and muck up the answer. The day before yesterday a woman was on the radio relaying her story on how her mortgage company didn't care that she had canceled checks proving payments she made. The computer said she hasn't paid, so therefore she hasn't. It's incredible how so many otherwise intelligent people can't think for themselves. -Charlie- BTW: My gods are mine. Your's are yours. And yes, christianity is a polytheistic religion, semantics changed to make the lambs think otherwise. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 12:58:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA18302; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:55:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:55:16 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <9b07fd82.3626507c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:43:56 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Correction on LaFonte web address Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Resent-Message-ID: <"XqJKr2.0.mT4.ZCb9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7065 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://members.aol.com/_ht_b/hlafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 13:20:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA25744; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:14:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:14:26 -0700 Message-ID: <3626734F.63BC@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:12:31 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Cease and desist! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lnzqV2.0.8I6.YUb9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7066 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All: Perhaps it is time someone reposted the rules of Freenrg-L, such as what is and is not off-topic. I don't know about the rest of you, but some of us have been in contact via private email, and we are sick of this pointless bickering. What is on-topic: * "Overunity" * Electrogravity & inertia violation * Scalar Electromagnetism * Psi phenomena and Paranormal * Relativity violation Some have emailed me saying that my posts on FTL travel/communication are off topic. FTL is relativity violation, and will probably need most of the things listed above (except Psi phenomena and Parnormal, but who knows?) So my opinion is that FTL research is definitely on topic. Dinosaurs: Does it say anything about that above? Do dinosaurs involve any of the above topics? No. Therefore they are off-topic. God: I have my own oppinions about God, but I will not discuss them on this list. Why? He is not on topic. It is also wrong to criticize other's belief in a god, at least in a distasteful way. Also: lets cut the crap about conspiracy theories. Sure, I believe our government hides much from us, and I will not discount the possbility that they would hide crashlanded alien spacecraft from us (assuming any such vehicles ever crashed here) But this is not the place to discuss that sort of thing. Now, go and do an experiment, or suggest one. Lets get back to serious research here. Regards, Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 13:26:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA29119; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:21:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:21:09 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19960110033715.00a3be60@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 03:37:15 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: FRONTAL LOBOTOMY !!!!!!! In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19981015180430.00a4ee80@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"gOqJU3.0.u67.qab9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7067 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Be amused then. But define this God, give it a name and prove to me that it is The God. And how is it that you anthrophormize your "God". Are you creating it in your own image? To fulfill your own needs and assuage your own fears. I apologize for responding to a post in which someone felt that they had the unfettered right to talk about Their God. People are free to choose to believe or not to believe in a God or to create in their own mind and image of such a thing. That does not at all mean that it is real, true or if it exists it has the nature, quality, form or vices of the god of the Hebrews -Christians and Muslims. Those who insist on publicly promoting their beliefs, should be ready for exchanges with those whom don't share their beliefs, or who find their beliefs repugnant and offensive. Lee At 01:51 PM 10/15/98 -0400, you wrote: >All, > >I have always been amused by the most educated & otherwise brilliant amongst >us, criticizing the decisions and actions of God. > >It is like the Z80 based computer disagreeing with a 1 million member >Crey Supercomputer Cluster. > >Bill > > ________________________________________________________/////___________ >| William E. Briggs Jr. | ~ ~ | >| webriggs@concentric.net | -@-@- | >|-------------------------|---------------------------ooo--U--ooo--------| >| XLN Systems, Inc. |Ideas presented are my own hair brained ideas,| >| Columbus, OH |and not the hair brained ideas of my employer.| > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 13:54:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA17127; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:50:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:50:26 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDF842.E97DAEE0@uzl.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: Re: Cease and desist! Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:51:29 -0700 Encoding: 3 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"dnswG3.0.WB4.H0c9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7069 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Kyle's message about staying on-topic and cutting the bickering and crap is hereby seconded (unless someone else beat me to it). Dan Quickert From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 13:55:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA12381; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:43:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:43:31 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981015052437.00a4d300@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 05:24:37 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: FRONTAL LOBOTOMY !!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <27309-36265114-6951@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"I1_Cl.0.D13.nvb9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7068 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes Dennis. No longer full of hate, guilt, wishing for death and the supposed rewards thereafter. What turned me more than anything else was Which Way Western Man, by William Simpson, a man who spent the better part of his life trying to live it according to the dictates of his belief. The down side is, that one (without any recourse to an external authority) must accept personal responsibility for their own fears, needs, thoughts and actions. I sleep so much better at night now. And I find that I don't hate and fear folk whom I use to hate and fear, like persons of color or different sexual persuasion. Live and let live. We were all born valid humans, and if not with equal capacities or intelligence, then with equal rights and responsibilities. We came into the world alone and naked and go out the same way. The problem then is learning to co exist with other equally valid human beings during our brief tenure on this big blue marble. Religion has not solved that problem only exacerberated it, with its laws, injunctions, chosen status and the marginalization of other people. Lee At 12:46 PM 10/15/98 -0700, you wrote: >hi lee. >i know what you mean. >i've retired from that arena my own self. >sure, you lose a couple of things. >what you get is your peace and quiet and your freedom of choice and your >autonomy back. >Dennis > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 14:09:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA27926; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:06:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:06:42 -0700 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhRTaiT4/R1PyYgwsYUo1iSfrdVnxQIVAL8atO8LUX+W2NWp/yQZWOCwSgWG From: dennisgarrett@webtv.net (Dennis Garrett) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:08:14 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cease and desist! Message-ID: <27311-3626643E-4208@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"YbLBV.0.9q6.XFc9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7070 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: i'll third the motion. enough is too much. unless of course god would like to post some plans for an overunity device on the net. :-D Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 16:05:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08280; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:02:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:02:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:03:12 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: GOD SPEAKS. Resent-Message-ID: <"2sCdO.0.I12.0yd9s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7071 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "TO ALL YE MERE MORTALS: "YEA I SAY UNTO YOU: "(AND VERILY, TOO!) "IF YOU WISH TO SEE MY PERPETUAL MOTION IN OPERATION -- CAST YOUR MORTAL EYES UP INTO MY HEAVENS AND DOWN INTO MY ESSENCE!" "ALL OF YE WHO BELIEVE IN THE 'HEAT DEATH' OF MY UNIVERSE SHALL BE DAMNED TO AN *ETERNAL* HEAT DEATH IN HELL!!!" --- GOD .... sorry for the levity --- couldn't resist...... :-) ERS From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 16:10:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA19355; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:07:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:07:08 -0700 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhRlIjEL0fPHw0fnx1kVcfQwXApnCAIUU80UV8jAdrAmlVs0USrUs+fGhrY= From: dennisgarrett@webtv.net (Dennis Garrett) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:08:37 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: GOD SPEAKS. Message-ID: <27309-36268075-7962@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"QHFPP.0.Bk4.Q0e9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7072 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: sorry, not even VAGUELY amusing. well, actually it stunk. give it up. Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 16:53:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA08930; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:49:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:49:43 -0700 Message-ID: <3626B216.7884@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 19:40:22 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: This list server! References: <3.0.5.32.19981014123630.008c5830@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IIgwe.0.SB2.Mee9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7073 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > > Lee wrote: Yes and praise Ishtar in her battle against YVHV the evil god? > > Meat truck Wrote: > > What is the possible meaning of your prognosis? Wre you drinking alcohol.? > > Lee Markland replies: > > How rude, how totally rude. Drinking alcohol? Don't touch the poison at > all. How Rude, and how stereotypically Christian in that rudeness. If this is comming down to manners and proper behavior, I don't think Lee has a leg to stand on here! It was a fair question in my opinion. Describing it as a 'Christian' question is a perfect example of stereotypical behavior, as many Christians drink wine as a part of their religous observances, while the Moslem religion is far more restrictive on the subject of alcohol. Lee has shown a total disrepect of the written rules of this forum, and had consistantly refused to acknowledge this fact (and many others). When this point is raised, Lee claims its a case of censorship! I find it highly impolite, and totally inconsiderate of Lee to think that the subscribers to this list should have to pay to download, and then delete the very sort of traffic that the list rules were written to preclude! Clearly Lee is not here to exchange views and ideas within the bounds of the written list rules, and may have 'other motives' for posting here. Please stop posting and responding to off topic posts. Please do not assume that its within your rights to disrespect the list rules, and redefine this list to suit personal fancy. To do so is totally disrespectful to those who have been subscribers to freenrg-l for many years because of its unique standing in the field. How can Lee rightfully complain about rudeness here!? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 17:05:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA15991; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:03:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:03:12 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 19:13:46 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: GOD SPEAKS. Resent-Message-ID: <"voMDi3.0.Iv3.zqe9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7074 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >sorry, not even VAGUELY amusing. >well, actually it stunk. >give it up. >Dennis I'm afraid you're damned to hell. :-) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 17:05:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA16110; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:03:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:03:21 -0700 Message-ID: <000801bdf89f$be10c320$65277f0a@RobPolley.telusplanet.net> From: "Rob Polley" To: Subject: Re: Muller Magnetic Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:55:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"-GTBe2.0.Yx3.7re9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7075 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Dan Quickert To: 'freenrg-l@eskimo.com' Date: Thursday, October 15, 1998 10:31 AM Subject: RE: Muller Magnetic >Rob Polley wrote: >>A couple of years ago someone on this list set up a page for a Canadian >>inventor in Penticton B.C. named Muller, I would like to follow up on some >>of the information that was presented, if anyone can give me a name or >>current URL I would appreciate it. > >a quick Web search on Penticton and Muller and magnet came up with: > >http://www.polar.bc.ca/magnet/ > Thanks Dan, These are indeed the folks I was looking for. Rob From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 18:19:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA16779; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:13:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:13:23 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981015100827.00a2da00@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:08:27 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: GOD SPEAKS. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"gJetU.0.T54.msf9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7076 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:13 PM 10/15/98 -0600, you wrote: >>sorry, not even VAGUELY amusing. >>well, actually it stunk. >>give it up. >>Dennis > >I'm afraid you're damned to hell. > >:-) I'll serve tea and crumpets for all in that place. Maybe even in a Playboy Bunny outfit, arrggh, that would be enough to scare anyone out of hell. Or is that scare the hell out of anyone - well I do get things mixed up. :) Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 18:21:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA20797; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:19:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:19:19 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981015101427.00a2da00@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:14:27 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Muller Magnetic In-Reply-To: <000801bdf89f$be10c320$65277f0a@RobPolley.telusplanet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"2MD9C3.0.q45.Lyf9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7077 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Pricey Video's ($100 - $120) and no specs or ordering info on the motors. Lee At 05:55 PM 10/15/98 -0700, you wrote: > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dan Quickert >To: 'freenrg-l@eskimo.com' >Date: Thursday, October 15, 1998 10:31 AM >Subject: RE: Muller Magnetic > > >>Rob Polley wrote: >>>A couple of years ago someone on this list set up a page for a Canadian >>>inventor in Penticton B.C. named Muller, I would like to follow up on some >>>of the information that was presented, if anyone can give me a name or >>>current URL I would appreciate it. >> >>a quick Web search on Penticton and Muller and magnet came up with: >> >>http://www.polar.bc.ca/magnet/ >> > > >Thanks Dan, > >These are indeed the folks I was looking for. > >Rob > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 18:33:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA27429; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:30:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:30:59 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981016110234.00888bd0@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:02:34 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re: Hamels 45gallon drum recreation In-Reply-To: References: <362407C3.607C@connect.ab.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Rvw2W3.0.Qi6.I7g9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7078 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:46 PM 10/14/98 -0400, you wrote: >Also check out; > >you might like to also check out my site of http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 for stuff and photographs related to david hamel and his invention Geoff > Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 18:37:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA29412; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:35:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:35:48 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981016110657.00886320@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:06:57 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re: re Who is David Hamel .... In-Reply-To: <011a01bdf7f2$9c25a120$998d20a3@hinet.hinet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id SAA29384 Resent-Message-ID: <"x2fVk.0.UB7.qBg9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7079 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:01 PM 10/15/98 +0800, you wrote: check out http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 for information about his invention and the man himself Geoff >David Hamel invented the "UFO" !!!! >He has sold his vedio and book,called Beautify, about his invention. >You might like to buy it. >You can get more info at Free Energy sites where he was. >You may buy them by the site. > >-----­ì©l¶l¥ó----- >±H¥óªÌ: Dennis Garrett >¦¬¥óªÌ: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >¤é´Á: 1998¦~10¤ë15¤é AM 11:08 >¥D¦®: Re: Hamels 45gallon drum recreation > > >david hamel? >who and what? >dennis > > > Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 18:39:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA30202; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:37:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:37:52 -0700 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhR+160CWLCtJNKGv9zYROxJI7HQTQIUQZYnd7nOQ2+i5db2sfFWMeLRzk0= From: dennisgarrett@webtv.net (Dennis Garrett) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:39:29 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: GOD SPEAKS. Message-ID: <27315-3626A3D1-1440@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"1Xd8f.0.qN7.lDg9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7080 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: lee i almost got kicked off the dowsing net because i didn't realise that what was funny as hell in my head when i wrote it didn't come across that way when it showed up on a screen. i irritated a lot of nice people and almost lost some people whose good opinion is very important to me. don't let the anonimity of the keyboard go to your head. sure, nobody can stop you, but who wants to be reviled as an obnoxious ass? do you court calumny? i tried being the list clown and it didn't work any better for me than it will for you. you are intelligent as hell, so show that side of you instead. Dennisgarrett@webtv.net ps dont mean to preach. must be the damn degree in theology. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 18:47:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA00309; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:45:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:45:23 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981016111634.0087ea70@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:16:34 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re:continuing research into free energy devices Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"1GhVP3.0.i4.oKg9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7081 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:45 PM 10/7/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hi ALL HI ALL Have added a new item of John W Moreland Ph. D speech given to Tesla Symposium last year entitled An update of the continuing research into T.H. moray and Other Free energy devices with conclusions. it can be found at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/moreland.html I have also added a listing of free energy and fuel saving patents at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/freepat.html http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/fuelpat.html check out other newstuff at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/newstuf2.html Have also added some new photos of a fiend of Geln Carter's wimshurst machine design at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/wimhurst.htm Geoff Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 20:37:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA13966; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 20:32:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 20:32:52 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <8d4efe62.3626bc45@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 23:23:49 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Updated design on new web site address (again!), AOL made changes! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Resent-Message-ID: <"t8JpU2.0.3Q3.Zvh9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7082 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: AOL has made changes and my new homepage address is> http://members.aol.com/HLafonte/lafonteresearchsite1web.html LaFonte Research Site 1 Web Sorry for the trouble, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 21:22:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA00470; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 21:20:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 21:20:00 -0700 Message-ID: <3627E2BC.3A45F722@ihug.co.nz> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:20:12 -0700 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: FRONTAL LOBOTOMY !!!!!!! References: <27308-362612F3-7602@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bz-X32.0.F7.lbi9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7083 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dennis Garrett wrote: > john, > interesting post. > can you blow away the lords homocidal and genocidal proclivities as > easily? even down to the killing of the conquered cities animals? Disease? Would that not be a damn good reason to kill everything including animals? (how were the mayans wiped out?) > yhvh > doesn't seem to run the kind of pace i'd want to live in. > how about the killing of children for the teasing of a bald headed > priest (or whatever he was). Please tell me chapter and verse. > god seems to be a psychopathic schizophrenic who changes his mind like > women change their clothes. (no offense, ladies) > Dennis With the difference in level between man and God is it not possible that it is not God who is changing his mind but you who does not understand, Hence God works in mysterious ways. Now can we end this here? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 15 21:59:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA15877; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 21:57:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 21:57:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3627EB6A.EE41725B@ihug.co.nz> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:57:14 -0700 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Totally off subject Re: FRONTAL LOBOTOMY !!!!!!! References: <3.0.5.32.19981014030841.00a3d300@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ygs_X.0.wt3.W8j9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7084 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I do not believe that it is even plausible that a frontal lobotomy is being suggested, anyway why would you bother if they were willing to serve you anyway and wanted to stay? further more shoving something into the ear would lead to deafness and to I assume loss of balance, further though I do not know anything about brain surgery I do not believe that the area is correct for a frontal lobotomy or anything else that would end in a still alive patient. This is off subject so please let's just end it, your views are clear and need not be repeated, this is a subject that no doubt will draw strong views on all sides and will continue if you let it, people like me and others will defend and as we see correct your views and you will post more so let's all show how strong we can be and not post more on this thread. Lee Markland wrote: > At 08:21 AM 10/15/98 -0700, you wrote: > >john, > >interesting post. > >can you blow away the lords homocidal and genocidal proclivities as > >easily? even down to the killing of the conquered cities animals? yhvh > >doesn't seem to run the kind of pace i'd want to live in. > >how about the killing of children for the teasing of a bald headed > >priest (or whatever he was). > >god seems to be a psychopathic schizophrenic who changes his mind like > >women change their clothes. (no offense, ladies) > >Dennis > > No offense taken Dennis. Hey, we change our clothes because we think that > is what you want? > Or at least "I" did until my 2nd Retirement - no more tight and short > skirts, just sweats > > John didn't blow anything away. He just did what theologians are so adept > at doing, selectively shopping and playing ventriloguist, putting their own > meaning into the mouth of their god. > > Leviticus gives clarity to the intent of Deuteronomy, and taking it all in > its whole, and not of context, there is a clear set of instructions that > seperates out the status of the gentile and the chosen. Of course those, > whom choose to believe for their own purposes, will define themselves as > the chosen, despite the preponderance of evidence to the contrary. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 01:12:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA32011; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:09:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:09:32 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3627E2BC.3A45F722@ihug.co.nz> References: <27308-362612F3-7602@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 22:08:19 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: FRONTAL LOBOTOMY !!!!!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"WsoLE2.0.5q7.yyl9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7085 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John - > With the difference in level between man and God > is it not possible that it is not God who is changing > his mind but you who does not understand, Hence > God works in mysterious ways. Now can we end > this here? It's a ridiculous notion that we might not understand this. I understand murder and genocide perfectly. That god wasn't working mysteriously at all, he was as blatant as a criminal can be. Point is, he was NOT God. *Now* can we end this here? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 03:21:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA22892; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:19:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:19:57 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981012200323.0088dc00@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 20:03:23 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: ON topic, FREENRG-L Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"OWgy82.0.cb5.Ctn9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7086 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:40:03 -0700 >To: stk@sunherald.infi.net >From: trknute@earthlink.net >Subject: ON topic, FREENRG-L >In-Reply-To: <3626734F.63BC@sunherald.infi.net> > >At 03:12 PM 10/15/98 -0700, you wrote: >> > >From TR Knudtson > >All: > >I find the ENERGY that is being spent here of late, to have little RELITIVITY to the TOPIC. I hope this is just an ANOMOLY, that does not detract from the GRAVITY of the subject of SCIENCE discussed here. If you get the, CONTENTAL DRIFT, of my statements, please ac-KNOWLEDGE by sending a letter of request for censure of the individuals involved. > >As an arbitrary judge of those to blame, take a count of the most frequent postings of an off topic nature. > >Let the math be your guide. > >And, BY GOD, lest get back to work! > > >(smile) > >TR Knudtson > > > >From Kyle >All: >> >>Perhaps it is time someone reposted the rules of Freenrg-L, such as what >>is and is not off-topic. I don't know about the rest of you, but some of >>us have been in contact via private email, and we are sick of this >>pointless bickering. >> >>What is on-topic: >> >> * "Overunity" >> * Electrogravity & inertia violation >> * Scalar Electromagnetism >> * Psi phenomena and Paranormal >> * Relativity violation >> >>Some have emailed me saying that my posts on FTL travel/communication >>are off topic. FTL is relativity violation, and will probably need most >>of the things listed above (except Psi phenomena and Parnormal, but who >>knows?) So my opinion is that FTL research is definitely on topic. >> >>Dinosaurs: Does it say anything about that above? Do dinosaurs involve >>any of the above topics? No. Therefore they are off-topic. >> >>God: I have my own oppinions about God, but I will not discuss them on >>this list. Why? He is not on topic. It is also wrong to criticize >>other's belief in a god, at least in a distasteful way. >> >>Also: lets cut the crap about conspiracy theories. Sure, I believe our >>government hides much from us, and I will not discount the possbility >>that they would hide crashlanded alien spacecraft from us (assuming any >>such vehicles ever crashed here) But this is not the place to discuss >>that sort of thing. >> >>Now, go and do an experiment, or suggest one. Lets get back to serious >>research here. >> >>Regards, >>Kyle R. Mcallister >> >> >> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 08:14:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA00505; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <006d01bdf8e9$64a5d560$0b9320a3@hinet.hinet.net> From: "Small White Office" To: "Free energy" Subject: About the sizes of the circuit .... Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:20:14 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0049_01BDF8EE.90D49E00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"DUsFm.0.p7.v2s9s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7087 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01BDF8EE.90D49E00 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_004A_01BDF8EE.90D49E00" ------=_NextPart_001_004A_01BDF8EE.90D49E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi ..... You may use capacitor(0.1uf) to store the energy collected and = periodically discharged it to LED. Because the sizes of the circuit I already forgot,I am so sorry that I = can't tell you anything. About the forms of A and B..... They must very large,like large metallic desk , large metallic = chest,or a car. I have another circuit you may like: It can get geater voltage than before. The sizes of C1 and C2 are "104p". The D1 and D2 are "FR154". It is well to let the Brine be denser. =20 ------=_NextPart_001_004A_01BDF8EE.90D49E00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi .....
  You may use capacitor(0.1uf) to store the = energy=20 collected and periodically discharged it to LED.
  Because the sizes of the circuit I already = forgot,I am=20 so sorry that I can't tell you anything.
  About the forms of A and B.....
  They must very large,like large metallic desk = , large=20 metallic chest,or a car.
  I have another circuit you may = like:
3D""
It can get geater voltage than=20 before.
 
The sizes of C1 and C2 are=20 "104p".
The D1 and D2 = are=20 "FR154".
It is well to let  the Brine be=20 denser.     
 
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5eQEnDryC2eeTWfNK/8AX+Rjzyb6/d/wDctbqG8t0ngffG2cHBBBBwQQeQQQQQeQQQeamqjpFlJY af5UzIZXmlncIcqpkkaQqCcZA3YzgZxnA6VerVXtqbxbaVwooopjCiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAoo ooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiii gAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKA CiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKAP//Z ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01BDF8EE.90D49E00-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 08:12:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA04248; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:10:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:10:38 -0700 Message-ID: <00a601bdf8eb$ebf2c1c0$0b9320a3@hinet.hinet.net> From: "Small White Office" To: "Free energy" Subject: Tomorrow never die ? Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:00:41 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009B_01BDF92E.E38FB5E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ttQKA2.0.921.j7s9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7088 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_009B_01BDF92E.E38FB5E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi ..all.... I have got a message that is very terrible !!!! The earth will change badly in 2000 / 5 / 5 AD. The earth will be nearer the SUN. All cultures will disappear and restart.... Could someone tell me that it is true or false ? ------=_NextPart_000_009B_01BDF92E.E38FB5E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi ..all....
I have got a message that is very = terrible=20 !!!!
The earth will change badly in 2000 / 5 / 5 = AD.
The earth will be nearer the SUN.
All cultures will disappear and = restart....
Could someone tell me that it is true or false=20 ?
------=_NextPart_000_009B_01BDF92E.E38FB5E0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 08:32:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA12329; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:30:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:30:25 -0700 Message-ID: <19981016152902.10434.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:29:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerry Wayne Decker Subject: Re: Tomorrow never die ? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"Vau_F3.0.Z03.GQs9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7089 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: False and insane to boot...please don't send junk like that to my mailbox. ---Small White Office wrote: > > Hi ..all.... > I have got a message that is very terrible !!!! > The earth will change badly in 2000 / 5 / 5 AD. > The earth will be nearer the SUN. > All cultures will disappear and restart.... > Could someone tell me that it is true or false ? >
Hi ..all....
I have got a message that is very terrible !!!!
The earth will change badly in 2000 / 5 / 5 AD.
The earth will be nearer the SUN.
All cultures will disappear and restart....
Could someone tell me that it is true or false ?
_________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 09:29:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA02521; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:24:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:24:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199810161622.MAA00161@surfergirl.spacey.net> Reply-To: From: "dwenbert" To: Subject: Re: Tomorrow never die ? Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:23:40 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sz2Ku.0.Cd.rCt9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7090 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Hi ..all.... > > I have got a message that is very terrible !!!! > > The earth will change badly in 2000 / 5 / 5 AD. > > The earth will be nearer the SUN. > > All cultures will disappear and restart.... > > Could someone tell me that it is true or false ? > > Yeah, Right.... Like we should be so lucky..... :-) What???? Not 'til MAY of 2K? So.....Its another "hurry up & wait" deal...... I'm curious, Jerry: You follow these things. Historically, what do these people DO when "the End" doesn't come? When your prophesied apocalypse fails to arrive on schedule to meet your own personal requirements, how does Miss Manners say you should delecately deal with such a profound social embarrassment? Offer refreshments? Send a little personal handwritten note of apology to all of those not decimated by catastrophe? Offer to commit personal acts of mayhem to compensate for the utter lack of total devastation? When Y2K arrives and departs with nary a whimper, will all of these high priced computer consultants refund their fees? Be prosecuted for fraud? Stoned by angry mobs and burned at the stake? Oh, how I long for the 'Good Ole' Days', when apocalypse was something we could do to ourselves, in just under 26 minutes time, for a few cryptograms......Where's all this 'self-sufficiency' here, where it really counts? Now, we're back to all this tedius mucking about in a quandry, waiting for the odd errant asteroid, that misanthropic comet, magnetic field reversals, or the random genetic mutation of microbes. Its all so doubious and uncertain; 'ametuerish', even, and undignified.... Any *REAL* civilization, worth its vacuum energy utilization curve, will wind up its affairs in an ORDERLY manner, and immolate itself ON SCHEDULE, at the regular 'Check Out Time' as posted on the back of the door. That would give celestial housekeeping adequate notice, so that the Choir Invisible can come fluff the pillows for the next occupant. It is highly unlikely that Man arose spontaneously, purely by Chance; and it would be a damned shame if he left in that manner... When he leaves, it should be under threat of prosecution, permanently banned from returning to the establishment, escorted by the local constabulary, and handed a bill for the damages on his way Out..... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 11:09:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA02407; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:02:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:02:24 -0700 Message-ID: <004f01bdf903$e5997720$d28d20a3@hinet.hinet.net> From: "Small White Office" To: "Free energy" Subject: To Jerry about " Tomorrow never die ? " Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:47:04 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"LD8ih2.0.Jb.keu9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7091 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Someone tell me that it is true... And there is another important thing I want to tell you... Being well manner!!!! It is well for you in the society..... -----­ì©l¶l¥ó----- ±H¥óªÌ: Jerry Wayne Decker ¦¬¥óªÌ: freenrg-l@eskimo.com ¤é´Á: 1998¦~10¤ë16¤é PM 11:40 ¥D¦®: Re: Tomorrow never die ? >False and insane to boot...please don't send junk like that to my >mailbox. > >---Small White Office wrote: >> >> Hi ..all.... >> I have got a message that is very terrible !!!! >> The earth will change badly in 2000 / 5 / 5 AD. >> The earth will be nearer the SUN. >> All cultures will disappear and restart.... >> Could someone tell me that it is true or false ? >> >
> > > > > > > > >
Hi ..all....
>
I have got a message that is very >terrible >!!!!
>
The earth will change badly in 2000 / 5 / 5 >AD.
>
The earth will be nearer the SUN.
>
All cultures will disappear and >restart....
>
Could someone tell me that it is true or false >?
> > >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 14:12:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA17590; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 13:55:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 13:55:43 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <004f01bdf903$e5997720$d28d20a3@hinet.hinet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:54:25 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: To Jerry about " Tomorrow never die ? " Resent-Message-ID: <"wtWcK1.0.eI4.EBx9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7092 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Small White Office - > Being well manner!!!! It is well for you in the > society..... Well said and true. The 5/5/2000 alignment of the planets is as good a peg as any for "prophets", "psychics", and doomsayers to hang their hats, capes, and whatever on. In other words, they don't know that any of that is going to happen. For that matter Jerry Decker doesn't know that it isn't. Just live your life and don't worry too much about all the crap you read and hear these days. The planets have aligned before and nothing happens. The net effect of gravity change on the earth as a percent difference from the normal is one of those ridiculous astronomical numbers with all the zeros like 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000001 or something similar. Be well. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 14:13:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA23863; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:09:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:09:31 -0700 Message-ID: <19981016211136.12300.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:11:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerry Wayne Decker Subject: Re: To Jerry about " Tomorrow never die ? " To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"UXkhF.0.nq5.BOx9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7093 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Rick et al! I don't know why or how my name got involved in this miserable thread, but please cease and desist as I never posted anything about it publicly, only privately to the source who posted it (small white office or something like that) asking that they remove my email address from their posts if they were of this nature...apparently, in the spirit of mischief, they posted my comment and now I'm dragged into this stupidity....so please, if that's all people can talk about, go away and leave me out of it...there are much, MUCH bigger fish to fry that have real applications... ---Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Small White Office - > > > Being well manner!!!! It is well for you in the > > society..... > > Well said and true. > > The 5/5/2000 alignment of the planets is as good a peg as any for > "prophets", "psychics", and doomsayers to hang their hats, capes, and > whatever on. In other words, they don't know that any of that is going to > happen. For that matter Jerry Decker doesn't know that it isn't. Just live > your life and don't worry too much about all the crap you read and hear > these days. The planets have aligned before and nothing happens. The net > effect of gravity change on the earth as a percent difference from the > normal is one of those ridiculous astronomical numbers with all the zeros > like > 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 > 00000000000000000000000000000000000000001 or something similar. > > Be well. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 14:22:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA27048; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:14:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:14:49 -0700 Message-ID: <19981016211719.11385.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:17:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerry Wayne Decker Subject: Fwd: To Jerry about " Tomorrow never die ? " To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0-1653377373-908572639=:9992" Resent-Message-ID: <"cV-RF2.0.Qc6.8Tx9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7094 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --0-1653377373-908572639=:9992 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Please note the only thing in the attached post I wrote was the comment under my name, not the rest of that idiotic mess....thanks...now go away... note: forwarded msg attached. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --0-1653377373-908572639=:9992 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by centurion.flash.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA14180 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 13:53:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA02408; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:02:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:02:24 -0700 Message-ID: <004f01bdf903$e5997720$d28d20a3@hinet.hinet.net> From: "Small White Office" To: "Free energy" Subject: To Jerry about " Tomorrow never die ? " Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:47:04 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"LD8ih2.0.Jb.keu9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7091 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com X-UIDL: 0b31ea4fe60517ad4d0aac92bc453938 Content-Length: 1552 Someone tell me that it is true... And there is another important thing I want to tell you... Being well manner!!!! It is well for you in the society..... -----­ì©l¶l¥ó----- ±H¥óªÌ: Jerry Wayne Decker ¦¬¥óªÌ: freenrg-l@eskimo.com ¤é´Á: 1998¦~10¤ë16¤é PM 11:40 ¥D¦®: Re: Tomorrow never die ? >False and insane to boot...please don't send junk like that to my >mailbox. > >---Small White Office wrote: >> >> Hi ..all.... >> I have got a message that is very terrible !!!! >> The earth will change badly in 2000 / 5 / 5 AD. >> The earth will be nearer the SUN. >> All cultures will disappear and restart.... >> Could someone tell me that it is true or false ? >> >
> > > > > > > > >
Hi ..all....
>
I have got a message that is very >terrible >!!!!
>
The earth will change badly in 2000 / 5 / 5 >AD.
>
The earth will be nearer the SUN.
>
All cultures will disappear and >restart....
>
Could someone tell me that it is true or false >?
> > >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > --0-1653377373-908572639=:9992-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 15:49:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA29981; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:35:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:35:39 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19981016211719.11385.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:34:11 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: To Jerry about "Tomorrow - let it die!" Resent-Message-ID: <"st1mY2.0.xJ7.vey9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7096 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jerry - > Please note [...] Ok, let it go already. I'm sure everyone knows how to interpret the quote-backs. Give the poor guy a break. How would you feel if you were couped up in a small white office all the time and people were saying the world was going to end? ;) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 15:50:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA27410; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:32:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:32:00 -0700 Message-ID: <19981016223027.20499.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:30:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerry Wayne Decker Subject: RE: To Jerry about " Tomorrow never die ? " To: Dan Quickert , freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"pvKF-.0.7i6.Vby9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7095 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dan et al! I'm fairly certain I sent that email directly to the source, not to any list. Whoever it is just garbaged it up and posted to the list....strange how people have the need to post SOMETHING......like a fix, its weird.. I think Bill must have decided to leave with Art Bell. Lately, I wind up deleting about 99% of the emails just about as fast as I recognize the topic or person sending...ah well, the Internet with all its potential has its flaws... ---Dan Quickert wrote: > > Jerry, I received your post (requesting smallwhiteoffice to stop) via the > freenrg-l, so you probably inadvertently sent it to the whole list. > > Just as well, though; I'm getting pretty tired of the nonsense, too. The > list has been flooded with inane crap lately - did it go public or > something? Is Bill Beatty dead, or just not paying attention? > > Dan Quickert _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 15:51:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA10700; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:49:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:49:45 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981016060550.00a32450@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:05:50 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: GOD SPEAKS. In-Reply-To: <27315-3626A3D1-1440@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"MCzqb3.0.3d2.8sy9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7097 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks, not trying to be funny or the class clown. Just strongly resent those folk who think that they have the license, the right, the authority to talk about, preach, testify, or proslytize their religious, political beliefs. I resent that, and feel that I have an equal right to object to those beliefs. I didn't start the thread either, merely responded to the posting of another. A persons beliefs are private things, and whether they know it or not, there beliefs are offensive to those who don't share them. If a person feels they have a right to talk about or mention their version of god, then I enjoy the same rights as they. That seems fair to me. Lee At 06:39 PM 10/15/98 -0700, you wrote: >lee >i almost got kicked off the dowsing net because i didn't realise that >what was funny as hell in my head when i wrote it didn't come across >that way when it showed up on a screen. i irritated a lot of nice people >and almost lost some people whose good opinion is very important to me. >don't let the anonimity of the keyboard go to your head. sure, nobody >can stop you, but who wants to be reviled as an obnoxious ass? do you >court calumny? i tried being the list clown and it didn't work any >better for me than it will for you. >you are intelligent as hell, so show that side of you instead. >Dennisgarrett@webtv.net >ps >dont mean to preach. must be the damn degree in theology. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 15:51:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA10780; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:49:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:49:49 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981016061232.00a31770@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:12:32 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: FRONTAL LOBOTOMY !!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <3627E2BC.3A45F722@ihug.co.nz> References: <27308-362612F3-7602@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"omhwm1.0.9e2.Csy9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7098 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:20 PM 10/16/98 -0700, you wrote: > > >Dennis Garrett wrote: > >> john, >> interesting post. >> can you blow away the lords homocidal and genocidal proclivities as >> easily? even down to the killing of the conquered cities animals? > >Disease? Would that not be a damn good reason to kill everything including >animals? (how were the mayans wiped out?) > >> yhvh >> doesn't seem to run the kind of pace i'd want to live in. >> how about the killing of children for the teasing of a bald headed >> priest (or whatever he was). > >Please tell me chapter and verse. > >> god seems to be a psychopathic schizophrenic who changes his mind like >> women change their clothes. (no offense, ladies) >> Dennis > >With the difference in level between man and God is it not possible that >it is not God who is changing his mind but you who does not understand, >Hence God works in mysterious ways. >Now can we end this here? Suggestion: Stop insisting that your god is The God. Good enuf for you, but taxing to many others. Lee Markland From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 15:58:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA10817; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:49:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:49:52 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981016063749.00a3c6e0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:37:49 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Totally off subject Re: FRONTAL LOBOTOMY !!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <3627EB6A.EE41725B@ihug.co.nz> References: <3.0.5.32.19981014030841.00a3d300@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"jjX4R.0.he2.Esy9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7099 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I would be glad to, however before you made the plea, you felt it necessary to state your opinion that you don't believe that a frontal lobotmy is being suggested. Could you had not, just omitted the first paragraph. Frontal lobotomies were performed by shoving an intstrument through the nose and sweeping it back and forth to severe the cortex that connects the frontal lobe to the rest of the brain. You can achieve the same results by going in sidewise and sweeping up and down. But instead of puncturing the nasal bone, one punctures the ear drum. I think the practise has been abandoned, for chemical lobotomies. Lee At 05:57 PM 10/16/98 -0700, you wrote: >I do not believe that it is even plausible that a frontal lobotomy is being >suggested, anyway why would you bother if they were willing to serve you anyway >and wanted to stay? further more shoving something into the ear would lead to >deafness and to I assume loss of balance, further though I do not know anything >about brain surgery I do not believe that the area is correct for a frontal >lobotomy or anything else that would end in a still alive patient. > >This is off subject so please let's just end it, your views are clear and need >not be repeated, this is a subject that no doubt will draw strong views on all >sides and will continue if you let it, people like me and others will defend >and as we see correct your views and you will post more so let's all show how >strong we can be and not post more on this thread. > >Lee Markland wrote: > >> At 08:21 AM 10/15/98 -0700, you wrote: >> >john, >> >interesting post. >> >can you blow away the lords homocidal and genocidal proclivities as >> >easily? even down to the killing of the conquered cities animals? yhvh >> >doesn't seem to run the kind of pace i'd want to live in. >> >how about the killing of children for the teasing of a bald headed >> >priest (or whatever he was). >> >god seems to be a psychopathic schizophrenic who changes his mind like >> >women change their clothes. (no offense, ladies) >> >Dennis >> >> No offense taken Dennis. Hey, we change our clothes because we think that >> is what you want? >> Or at least "I" did until my 2nd Retirement - no more tight and short >> skirts, just sweats >> >> John didn't blow anything away. He just did what theologians are so adept >> at doing, selectively shopping and playing ventriloguist, putting their own >> meaning into the mouth of their god. >> >> Leviticus gives clarity to the intent of Deuteronomy, and taking it all in >> its whole, and not of context, there is a clear set of instructions that >> seperates out the status of the gentile and the chosen. Of course those, >> whom choose to believe for their own purposes, will define themselves as >> the chosen, despite the preponderance of evidence to the contrary. > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 15:59:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA16881; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:56:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:56:33 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981016075126.00a46100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 07:51:26 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: ON topic, FREENRG-L In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981012200323.0088dc00@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"-ECR62.0.f74.Wyy9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7100 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well and good. Censure is very typically Xtian. I didn't start the thread, only exercised my right to respond to someones statement about God. And I notice that you hard headedly insist on maintaing that self proclaimed right or monopoly by stating: "And, By God, let's get back to work." If you feel you have a right and obligation to express your belief, then I feel I have the same right and obligation to protest. Lee Markland. At 08:03 PM 10/12/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:40:03 -0700 >>To: stk@sunherald.infi.net >>From: trknute@earthlink.net >>Subject: ON topic, FREENRG-L >>In-Reply-To: <3626734F.63BC@sunherald.infi.net> >> >>At 03:12 PM 10/15/98 -0700, you wrote: >>> >> >>From TR Knudtson >> >>All: >> >>I find the ENERGY that is being spent here of late, to have little >RELITIVITY to the TOPIC. I hope this is just an ANOMOLY, that does not >detract from the GRAVITY of the subject of SCIENCE discussed here. If you >get the, CONTENTAL DRIFT, of my statements, please ac-KNOWLEDGE by sending >a letter of request for censure of the individuals involved. >> >>As an arbitrary judge of those to blame, take a count of the most frequent >postings of an off topic nature. >> >>Let the math be your guide. >> >>And, BY GOD, lest get back to work! >> >> >>(smile) >> >>TR Knudtson >> >> >> >>From Kyle >>All: >>> >>>Perhaps it is time someone reposted the rules of Freenrg-L, such as what >>>is and is not off-topic. I don't know about the rest of you, but some of >>>us have been in contact via private email, and we are sick of this >>>pointless bickering. >>> >>>What is on-topic: >>> >>> * "Overunity" >>> * Electrogravity & inertia violation >>> * Scalar Electromagnetism >>> * Psi phenomena and Paranormal >>> * Relativity violation >>> >>>Some have emailed me saying that my posts on FTL travel/communication >>>are off topic. FTL is relativity violation, and will probably need most >>>of the things listed above (except Psi phenomena and Parnormal, but who >>>knows?) So my opinion is that FTL research is definitely on topic. >>> >>>Dinosaurs: Does it say anything about that above? Do dinosaurs involve >>>any of the above topics? No. Therefore they are off-topic. >>> >>>God: I have my own oppinions about God, but I will not discuss them on >>>this list. Why? He is not on topic. It is also wrong to criticize >>>other's belief in a god, at least in a distasteful way. >>> >>>Also: lets cut the crap about conspiracy theories. Sure, I believe our >>>government hides much from us, and I will not discount the possbility >>>that they would hide crashlanded alien spacecraft from us (assuming any >>>such vehicles ever crashed here) But this is not the place to discuss >>>that sort of thing. >>> >>>Now, go and do an experiment, or suggest one. Lets get back to serious >>>research here. >>> >>>Regards, >>>Kyle R. Mcallister >>> >>> >>> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 16:27:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA28875; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:23:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:23:34 -0700 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAmAMjKid6+EWDPeEWiMr2Wcj8OhMCFHMHk6BmkEhsuSB9slu/PmvNs2GJ From: dennisgarrett@webtv.net (Dennis Garrett) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:25:11 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: GOD SPEAKS. Message-ID: <27312-3627D5D7-5497@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"YNYdH2.0.537.rLz9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7101 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: i give up. but wll you please post the peope you want to rant back and forth with privately? that's not much to ask. Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 16:31:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA30456; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:27:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:27:26 -0700 Message-ID: <3627FE5C.7C82@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 19:18:04 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: To Jerry about " Tomorrow never die ? " References: <19981016211136.12300.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5Q6UP.0.gR7.SPz9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7102 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jerry Wayne Decker wrote: > > Hi Rick et al! > > I don't know why or how my name got involved in this miserable thread, > but please cease and desist as I never posted anything about it > publicly, only privately to the source who posted it (small white > office or something like that) Probably just missaddressed Jerry, the header shows you sent it to the list. I've had this kind of thing happen with the 'Re:All' or 'Re:Mail' hotkey in Netscape. > asking that they remove my email > address from their posts if they were of this nature...apparently, in > the spirit of mischief, they posted my comment and now I'm dragged > into this stupidity....so please, if that's all people can talk about, > go away and leave me out of it...there are much, MUCH bigger fish to > fry that have real applications... Ahh, check the message header Jerry. Its a common enough thing to have happen. I do agree that the original thread was off topic though, and thats much too common! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 17:35:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA29148; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:25:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:25:34 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981013064037.00888720@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:40:37 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ON topic, FREENRG-L In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981016075126.00a46100@rockisland.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19981012200323.0088dc00@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"bU5Tm.0.H77.yF-9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7103 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ah, Buddha Damn it! Jesus, this is getting out of hand. By the strength of Ala, I seek the patients of Job, in dealing with the deviation from the Socratic method that has kept the Devil out of this discussion. There Lee, eat this one up! TR Knudtson At 07:51 AM 10/16/98 -0700, you wrote: >Well and good. Censure is very typically Xtian. I didn't start the thread, >only exercised my right to respond to someones statement about God. > >And I notice that you hard headedly insist on maintaing that self >proclaimed right or monopoly by stating: > >"And, By God, let's get back to work." > >If you feel you have a right and obligation to express your belief, then I >feel I have the same right and obligation to protest. > >Lee Markland. > >At 08:03 PM 10/12/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:40:03 -0700 >>>To: stk@sunherald.infi.net >>>From: trknute@earthlink.net >>>Subject: ON topic, FREENRG-L >>>In-Reply-To: <3626734F.63BC@sunherald.infi.net> >>> >>>At 03:12 PM 10/15/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>> >>> >>>From TR Knudtson >>> >>>All: >>> >>>I find the ENERGY that is being spent here of late, to have little >>RELITIVITY to the TOPIC. I hope this is just an ANOMOLY, that does not >>detract from the GRAVITY of the subject of SCIENCE discussed here. If you >>get the, CONTENTAL DRIFT, of my statements, please ac-KNOWLEDGE by sending >>a letter of request for censure of the individuals involved. >>> >>>As an arbitrary judge of those to blame, take a count of the most frequent >>postings of an off topic nature. >>> >>>Let the math be your guide. >>> >>>And, BY GOD, lest get back to work! >>> >>> >>>(smile) >>> >>>TR Knudtson >>> >>> >>> >>>From Kyle >>>All: >>>> >>>>Perhaps it is time someone reposted the rules of Freenrg-L, such as what >>>>is and is not off-topic. I don't know about the rest of you, but some of >>>>us have been in contact via private email, and we are sick of this >>>>pointless bickering. >>>> >>>>What is on-topic: >>>> >>>> * "Overunity" >>>> * Electrogravity & inertia violation >>>> * Scalar Electromagnetism >>>> * Psi phenomena and Paranormal >>>> * Relativity violation >>>> >>>>Some have emailed me saying that my posts on FTL travel/communication >>>>are off topic. FTL is relativity violation, and will probably need most >>>>of the things listed above (except Psi phenomena and Parnormal, but who >>>>knows?) So my opinion is that FTL research is definitely on topic. >>>> >>>>Dinosaurs: Does it say anything about that above? Do dinosaurs involve >>>>any of the above topics? No. Therefore they are off-topic. >>>> >>>>God: I have my own oppinions about God, but I will not discuss them on >>>>this list. Why? He is not on topic. It is also wrong to criticize >>>>other's belief in a god, at least in a distasteful way. >>>> >>>>Also: lets cut the crap about conspiracy theories. Sure, I believe our >>>>government hides much from us, and I will not discount the possbility >>>>that they would hide crashlanded alien spacecraft from us (assuming any >>>>such vehicles ever crashed here) But this is not the place to discuss >>>>that sort of thing. >>>> >>>>Now, go and do an experiment, or suggest one. Lets get back to serious >>>>research here. >>>> >>>>Regards, >>>>Kyle R. Mcallister >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 18:30:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA11113; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:18:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:18:26 -0700 Message-ID: <36280C2E.338B@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:17:02 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Ah, Memories... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"f0G_9.0.Uj2.X1_9s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7104 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I joined this list over a year ago. Back then, it was an excellent forum for dicussing subjects the mainstream science community ignores. Now the list is becoming a loose conglomeration of flames, anti-christian propaganda, anti-science, and conspiracy theories. I ask you who have been here since Aug 1997: what the hell went wrong? As far as censorship...maybe censorship (actually moderation, don't confuse the two) is needed to control some of the people who cannot control themselves. I'd like to see a little moderation; maybe that would straighten this mess out. I was hoping that my post "Cease and Desist" would stop some of this by pointing out ehat is and is not appropriate for dicussion on this list. Apparently it did not. Those aren't my rules, they are Bill Beaty's. Go cry censorship; Bill has every right to censor you or me, its his list. He provides it free of charge, and has done us a great service. End this madness now. Regards, Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 20:16:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA05964; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:12:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:12:51 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981017032137.00ddb26c@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 23:21:37 -0400 To: , From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Tomorrow never die ? Resent-Message-ID: <"fknzW3.0.4T1.pi0As"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7105 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi; http://www.ipcc.ch/ Dennis Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 20:22:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA08670; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:20:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:20:46 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981013093551.0088caf0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:35:51 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Transition Technologies. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Vs8fL.0.N72.Eq0As"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7106 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hydrogen Burners: Here is a project that that I hope many will enjoy. It has long been a hobby of mine to come with adaptive technologies for the implementation of Hydrogen in conventional appliances, ovens and stoves and water heaters. I see these things as important to those who dream of the energy independent home. Hydrogen can be extracted from water easily using low voltage DC current, and fortunately separates into totally pure gasses, of Oxygen and hydrogen. Storage of these separated gasses markedly more safe than Hydroxy systems. And even leaks internal to the home environment are of increased safety over natural gas, as Hydrogen is non toxic. Even if leeks were to develop the gas is so light that it dissipates out and away even through the tinniest of cracks. To insure against the build up of any hydrogen in a home the simple addition of a escape vent at a high position in the structure or home is a simple but effective to any accumulation of hydrogen gas. I have seen many designs that employ Stainless Steel Mesh, and finely orificed machinings and other methods. Most are very expensive, and require regular and costly replacement. I had very little money when I started working with Hydrogen, so I had to find other ways of forming burners. One type that I am very proud of, is one that I developed while in school. I had an evening job cleaning a Laundromat to pay my way through school, and also was taking Ceramics class during this semester. I had also learned of the lost wax process of creating voids in ceramic molds. I had an idea, I took some of the dryer lint that accumulated in abundant supply, and simply entrained it into wet clay in varying quantities, in each test piece. You might think of this as looking like fuzzy, thick Tortilla. I worked the material thoroughly so that the fibers were well mixed into the clay, and fired the pieces. Clamping these disks into the top of a shallow pan, using a gasket of, tape asbestos, I fed the pure hydrogen into a small tube, attached to a fitting in the side of the pan. I used fine silica sand. to disperse the gas internal to the pan, and the unit worked well. Pure Hydrogen is inert until in the presence of Oxygen. For a few pennies, I had developed a useful and workable solution to adaptive burners. I could heat steel on this burner, cook food, and warm my shop. However the flame tended to stack up, centering the heating effects. On later attempts, I glazed an outer ring, to form a better seal, and blanked out the center to form a circular strip of porous clay, that looked like a skinny doughnut, towards the outside of the disk. This did the trick. I would later developed tube designs with spiral orifice surfaces. Some with roughed up surfaces that would glow when heated. Long ones, oval ones, domed ones, almost any shape could be designed once you knew how you wanted the flame face to look. The designs became easy. They even could be washed. I invite any and all to try your hand at furthering Hydrogen technology, and take this simple idea, and run with it. I "TR Knudtson", do hereby donate, this principle of Ceramic Adaptive Technologies, for the benefit of man and to whomever might have the energy and strength of will to get industry to buy it. (Smile). I do seriously hope that one of you might take this ball and give it all you got, to see that it would come to fruition. They are easy to make, cheep, and have no moving parts to break. Also, the have all the heat handling properties needed for this use. You might also be generous and give some credit to me for the idea. (smile) I do hope for the success of this and many other adaptive technologies, and those who would carry them forward. The transition period, that will surly come, as people and industry seeks energy alternatives to energy dependency on polluting hydrocarbon fuels, will need these kinds of simple yet practical answers. Love TR Knudtson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 20:37:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA12608; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:30:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:30:00 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981016115817.00a3c530@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:58:17 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Tomorrow never die ? In-Reply-To: <00a601bdf8eb$ebf2c1c0$0b9320a3@hinet.hinet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"3NRmx.0.w43.uy0As"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7107 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:00 PM 10/16/98 +0800, you wrote: > Hi ..all.... I have got a message that is very terrible !!!! The earth >will change badly in 2000 / 5 / 5 AD. The earth will be nearer the SUN. All >cultures will disappear and restart.... Could someone tell me that it is >true or false ? Absolutely false. The origin of that is Richard Noone, who wrote a book 5/5/2000, Ice the Ultimate Disaster in which he forecast a major conjunction of five planets on that date. He actually was correct and beat the astronomers to the punch. He is a Mason, and alludes to esoteric and ancient knowledge (The book, however is interesting and full of interesting and unknown or unpublicised facts). He obviously believes it himself, for he sold his house in Florida and moved to Georgia. However he expressed concern about living at the pivot point when this crustal shift (supposedly caused by this conjunction) will take place. The supposed increased gravitational pull of the five planets is suppose to cause the Antacrctic Ice Cap to dump into the Indian Ocean, and thus set up a crustal shift. He quoted some info from Prof Bull with the Polar Studies Commission, and other sources including Einstein and Charles Hapgood. Well he scared me, and that launched my own inquisition and self education into gravity and the nature of gravity. One thing I discovered was, that due to the laws of the inverse square, any gravitational effect of these objects (which includes the moon BTW) is so diminished as to have no effect at all on the Earth. Besides the conjunction will take place on the opposite side of the sun (from Earth). One can download a shareware program called Starmap from http://www.jasc.com and set the dates, lat and long etc to see the stars and planets at any date, from any place on Earth. The conjunction is there, no doubt. But frankly I wouldn't worry about it. I don't anymore, although at first he scared me senseless. Another reason why I don't rush to judgement and withhold belief. Mars is 48937500 million miles from Earth that equates to 229820.9568535 Martian radii(48937500/2120.9375) now square that 229821 (rounded radii) and you get 52817692041 divide that into 17.1626 (the rate of fall of objects at the surface of Mars) and you get 3.249403625338e-010 for a gravitational acceleration at the surface of the Earth. This is so small that my calculator can't display it. You can calculate out the rest of these effects for the other planets involved (Mars, Saturn, Mercury, Venus and Jupiter). In other words the gravitational effects (surface gravity or rate of fall of objects at its surface) is so diminished by the inverse square law over the distance from those planets to the Earth - that the gravitational effects of these planets are as of nothing at the surface of the Earth. I wouldn't concern myself with 5/5/2000 - I did, unreasonably, and am now afraid to face friends whom I unduly alarmed after I read Noone's book. If Noone is correct, then we are all history, save a handful of survivors. Now if the Earth's crust shifts because that huge chunk of Ice that is sitting on a cushion of slush at the Ross Ice Shelf, collapses into the Indian Ocean it will take out Rangoon and could indeed cause earthquakes, volcanism, high winds and maybe even (according to the demigod Einstein) a shift of the Earth's crust. Then you will want to find out where the two pivot points are. Incidentally, there is evidence that the Earth's North Pole was located at the region of Hudsons Bay and indeed the ground thereat is still rebounding. I think, however the mechanism is different. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 20:40:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA16985; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:38:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:38:30 -0700 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981013093551.0088caf0@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 23:44:06 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: Transition Technologies. Resent-Message-ID: <"05_Ax2.0.D94.q41As"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7108 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hydrogen Burners: > > >I worked the material thoroughly so that the fibers were well mixed into >the clay, and fired the pieces. > >Clamping these disks into the top of a shallow pan, using a gasket of, tape >asbestos, I fed the pure hydrogen into a small tube, attached to a fitting >in the side of the pan. I used fine silica sand. to disperse the gas >internal to the pan, and the unit worked well. Pure Hydrogen is inert >until in the presence of Oxygen. For a few pennies, I had developed a >useful and workable solution to adaptive burners. I could heat steel on >this burner, cook food, and warm my shop. However the flame tended to >stack up, centering the heating effects. > >From your description I have trouble visualizing the burner. Do you have a photo to include (or several showing the various shapes and modifications...) This would be nice to put up on a web site somewhere. Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 20:52:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA21236; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:46:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:46:27 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981016123316.00b20c60@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:33:16 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: ON topic, FREENRG-L In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981013064037.00888720@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19981016075126.00a46100@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19981012200323.0088dc00@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"g_asx.0.YB5.IC1As"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7109 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: LOL: Last Word!!!!!!!!!!!!!! By the helm of Thor and the goggles of Inananna ye have got the last word :) Lee At 06:40 AM 10/13/98 -0700, you wrote: > > > >Ah, Buddha Damn it! > >Jesus, this is getting out of hand. By the strength of Ala, I seek the >patients of Job, in dealing with the deviation from the Socratic method >that has kept the Devil out of this discussion. > >There Lee, eat this one up! > >TR Knudtson > > >At 07:51 AM 10/16/98 -0700, you wrote: > > > >>Well and good. Censure is very typically Xtian. I didn't start the thread, >>only exercised my right to respond to someones statement about God. >> >>And I notice that you hard headedly insist on maintaing that self >>proclaimed right or monopoly by stating: >> >>"And, By God, let's get back to work." >> >>If you feel you have a right and obligation to express your belief, then I >>feel I have the same right and obligation to protest. >> >>Lee Markland. >> >>At 08:03 PM 10/12/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>>Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:40:03 -0700 >>>>To: stk@sunherald.infi.net >>>>From: trknute@earthlink.net >>>>Subject: ON topic, FREENRG-L >>>>In-Reply-To: <3626734F.63BC@sunherald.infi.net> >>>> >>>>At 03:12 PM 10/15/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>>> >>>> >>>>From TR Knudtson >>>> >>>>All: >>>> >>>>I find the ENERGY that is being spent here of late, to have little >>>RELITIVITY to the TOPIC. I hope this is just an ANOMOLY, that does not >>>detract from the GRAVITY of the subject of SCIENCE discussed here. If you >>>get the, CONTENTAL DRIFT, of my statements, please ac-KNOWLEDGE by sending >>>a letter of request for censure of the individuals involved. >>>> >>>>As an arbitrary judge of those to blame, take a count of the most frequent >>>postings of an off topic nature. >>>> >>>>Let the math be your guide. >>>> >>>>And, BY GOD, lest get back to work! >>>> >>>> >>>>(smile) >>>> >>>>TR Knudtson >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>From Kyle >>>>All: >>>>> >>>>>Perhaps it is time someone reposted the rules of Freenrg-L, such as what >>>>>is and is not off-topic. I don't know about the rest of you, but some of >>>>>us have been in contact via private email, and we are sick of this >>>>>pointless bickering. >>>>> >>>>>What is on-topic: >>>>> >>>>> * "Overunity" >>>>> * Electrogravity & inertia violation >>>>> * Scalar Electromagnetism >>>>> * Psi phenomena and Paranormal >>>>> * Relativity violation >>>>> >>>>>Some have emailed me saying that my posts on FTL travel/communication >>>>>are off topic. FTL is relativity violation, and will probably need most >>>>>of the things listed above (except Psi phenomena and Parnormal, but who >>>>>knows?) So my opinion is that FTL research is definitely on topic. >>>>> >>>>>Dinosaurs: Does it say anything about that above? Do dinosaurs involve >>>>>any of the above topics? No. Therefore they are off-topic. >>>>> >>>>>God: I have my own oppinions about God, but I will not discuss them on >>>>>this list. Why? He is not on topic. It is also wrong to criticize >>>>>other's belief in a god, at least in a distasteful way. >>>>> >>>>>Also: lets cut the crap about conspiracy theories. Sure, I believe our >>>>>government hides much from us, and I will not discount the possbility >>>>>that they would hide crashlanded alien spacecraft from us (assuming any >>>>>such vehicles ever crashed here) But this is not the place to discuss >>>>>that sort of thing. >>>>> >>>>>Now, go and do an experiment, or suggest one. Lets get back to serious >>>>>research here. >>>>> >>>>>Regards, >>>>>Kyle R. Mcallister >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 21:09:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA28887; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 21:07:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 21:07:39 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981013102250.008947a0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:22:50 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ON topic, FREENRG-L In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981016123316.00b20c60@rockisland.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19981013064037.00888720@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981016075126.00a46100@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19981012200323.0088dc00@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"OiU8Q.0.G37.BW1As"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7110 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Heay????? Are you making fun of Norwiegans? At 12:33 PM 10/16/98 -0700, you wrote: >LOL: Last Word!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >By the helm of Thor and the goggles of Inananna ye have got the last word > >:) > >Lee > >At 06:40 AM 10/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >> >> >> >>Ah, Buddha Damn it! >> >>Jesus, this is getting out of hand. By the strength of Ala, I seek the >>patients of Job, in dealing with the deviation from the Socratic method >>that has kept the Devil out of this discussion. >> >>There Lee, eat this one up! >> >>TR Knudtson >> >> >>At 07:51 AM 10/16/98 -0700, you wrote: >> >> >> >>>Well and good. Censure is very typically Xtian. I didn't start the thread, >>>only exercised my right to respond to someones statement about God. >>> >>>And I notice that you hard headedly insist on maintaing that self >>>proclaimed right or monopoly by stating: >>> >>>"And, By God, let's get back to work." >>> >>>If you feel you have a right and obligation to express your belief, then I >>>feel I have the same right and obligation to protest. >>> >>>Lee Markland. >>> >>>At 08:03 PM 10/12/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>>>Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:40:03 -0700 >>>>>To: stk@sunherald.infi.net >>>>>From: trknute@earthlink.net >>>>>Subject: ON topic, FREENRG-L >>>>>In-Reply-To: <3626734F.63BC@sunherald.infi.net> >>>>> >>>>>At 03:12 PM 10/15/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>From TR Knudtson >>>>> >>>>>All: >>>>> >>>>>I find the ENERGY that is being spent here of late, to have little >>>>RELITIVITY to the TOPIC. I hope this is just an ANOMOLY, that does not >>>>detract from the GRAVITY of the subject of SCIENCE discussed here. If you >>>>get the, CONTENTAL DRIFT, of my statements, please ac-KNOWLEDGE by sending >>>>a letter of request for censure of the individuals involved. >>>>> >>>>>As an arbitrary judge of those to blame, take a count of the most frequent >>>>postings of an off topic nature. >>>>> >>>>>Let the math be your guide. >>>>> >>>>>And, BY GOD, lest get back to work! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>(smile) >>>>> >>>>>TR Knudtson >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>From Kyle >>>>>All: >>>>>> >>>>>>Perhaps it is time someone reposted the rules of Freenrg-L, such as what >>>>>>is and is not off-topic. I don't know about the rest of you, but some of >>>>>>us have been in contact via private email, and we are sick of this >>>>>>pointless bickering. >>>>>> >>>>>>What is on-topic: >>>>>> >>>>>> * "Overunity" >>>>>> * Electrogravity & inertia violation >>>>>> * Scalar Electromagnetism >>>>>> * Psi phenomena and Paranormal >>>>>> * Relativity violation >>>>>> >>>>>>Some have emailed me saying that my posts on FTL travel/communication >>>>>>are off topic. FTL is relativity violation, and will probably need most >>>>>>of the things listed above (except Psi phenomena and Parnormal, but who >>>>>>knows?) So my opinion is that FTL research is definitely on topic. >>>>>> >>>>>>Dinosaurs: Does it say anything about that above? Do dinosaurs involve >>>>>>any of the above topics? No. Therefore they are off-topic. >>>>>> >>>>>>God: I have my own oppinions about God, but I will not discuss them on >>>>>>this list. Why? He is not on topic. It is also wrong to criticize >>>>>>other's belief in a god, at least in a distasteful way. >>>>>> >>>>>>Also: lets cut the crap about conspiracy theories. Sure, I believe our >>>>>>government hides much from us, and I will not discount the possbility >>>>>>that they would hide crashlanded alien spacecraft from us (assuming any >>>>>>such vehicles ever crashed here) But this is not the place to discuss >>>>>>that sort of thing. >>>>>> >>>>>>Now, go and do an experiment, or suggest one. Lets get back to serious >>>>>>research here. >>>>>> >>>>>>Regards, >>>>>>Kyle R. Mcallister >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 22:13:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA02295; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 22:09:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 22:09:28 -0700 (PDT) From: RHammar860@aol.com Message-ID: <7b5c7ee5.362822ab@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:52:59 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Resent-Message-ID: <"AbKfl1.0.nZ.6Q2As"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7111 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-10-14 00:54:17 EDT, you write: << Can anyone on the lists supply info or verification of DePalma's demise? Also I thought I noted that someone said something about Joe Champion being in jail,does anyone know why this would be? I found the info at Gravity Gate on DePalmer( spelling in question) to be most fascinating. The question is that I have is how can currents be induced in two manners,both along the axis of rotation of the magnet and a radial propagation outwards from the axis. If these currents are produced without a lenz law reaction which is what the site and diagram seems to indicate, why hasnt this process been widely used. Is there a possibility that it is not overunity? This site is at www.starwon.com.au/~rayd/index.htm Any info would be appreciated Sincerly HDN mnorris@akron.infi.net >> I think this was the way the EV Gray motor worked. Also I just got back from CO taliking with his wife and she was telling me that after Ed's day in court he got a letter telling him that he had to stop working on his motor because he was geting into a area of National Security and he could find himself in jail if he did not stop. Ron Hammar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 16 23:36:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA29031; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 23:25:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 23:25:32 -0700 Message-ID: <068d01bdf996$cdb5db60$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: GOD SPEAKS. Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 02:20:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"X-gba3.0.R57.SX3As"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7112 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You can wear your playboy bunny outfit for me anytime! >At 07:13 PM 10/15/98 -0600, you wrote: >>>sorry, not even VAGUELY amusing. >>>well, actually it stunk. >>>give it up. >>>Dennis >> >>I'm afraid you're damned to hell. >> >>:-) > >I'll serve tea and crumpets for all in that place. Maybe even in a Playboy >Bunny outfit, arrggh, that would be enough to scare anyone out of hell. Or >is that scare the hell out of anyone - well I do get things mixed up. > >:) > >Lee > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 01:38:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA16017; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 01:36:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 01:36:17 -0700 Message-ID: <362857BC.4B53@keelynet.com> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 03:39:24 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net CC: wrc@CDEPOT.NET, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Just another Ripoff Artist Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9f9rd2.0.zv3.0S5As"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7114 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! I am very disturbed and disappointed that one of our own, or so I and many others thought, is trying to capitalize on the KeelyNet files by selling them on CD. He is well aware that KeelyNet was never for profit and that is why all our information has always been free for everyone. Wesley Crosiar is the guy and is apparently too lazy to get a real job like the rest of us, preferring to rip off others and hope he can get by with it unscathed. I will post all the KeelyNet files to the website as zip files so anyone can download them for free AS THEY WERE INTENDED and not let him get by with this cheap ripoff ploy...so save your money and come to http://www.keelynet.com/main.htm in about 2 weeks and I'll have it all FOR FREE!!!! Keep your money or donate what you think the files are worth to the ORIGINAL KeelyNet...but it ain't for sale like this. Bill Beatty, Rene Mueller and David Jonsson have maintained the mirror sites for years now, so send them some bucks, but don't support this kind of ripoff. See the main page above for the mirror site addresses where you can get the files singly but for free as they were intended. Wesley, shame on you, what has taken you over? Money?? We all have our problems but to steal and try to profit from work you never did. Don't you think if I wanted KeelyNet to be a for profit venture I would have done the CDs myself?? Long ago?? I am discussing the matter with my lawyer as I do own the name and I did not nor will I ever now give you permission to use it for your sales scam. You will be instructed to remove the KeelyNet name from your site and from all the files you are selling since that is mine. The contents of the files are free to share as originally intended but I won't have you using the name to promote your own scam. For shame, people take note of this please and tell all your friends to NOT BUY KEELYNET FILES FROM THIS WEBSITE...as they are wasting their money because I will now TAKE PAINS to get the zip files posted at the KeelyNet site so EVERYONE can have them FREELY, without charge and from the ORIGINAL KEELYNET, not some scam page out for personal profit....pitiful...I am so disappointed...all for money too.... Tell your friends and repost this if you want, but I detest con artists and this willingness by some to do anything for a buck. How disgusting. http://www.energyresearchco.com/energyre/cgi-bin/shoppingcart/shoppingcart.cgi?page=keelynet.frame.htm&cart_id=984302317916%%cart_id%% http://www.energyresearchco.com/energyre/cgi-bin/shoppingcart/shoppingcart.cgi?page=keelynet.frame.htm&cart_id=984302317916%%cart_id%% InterNic Whois found the owner of this scam site to be: Domain Name: ENERGYRESEARCHCO.COM Administrative Contact: Crosiar, Wesley WC2172 wrc@CDEPOT.NET 209-754-4742 -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 01:41:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA11576; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 01:12:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 01:12:03 -0700 Message-ID: <36296A75.8BF72047@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 21:11:33 -0700 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: stk@sunherald.infi.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ah, Memories... References: <36280C2E.338B@sunherald.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bLX-S2.0.nq2.J55As"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7113 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > I joined this list over a year ago. Back then, it was an excellent forum > for dicussing subjects the mainstream science community ignores. Now the > list is becoming a loose conglomeration of flames, anti-christian > propaganda, anti-science, and conspiracy theories. I ask you who have > been here since Aug 1997: what the hell went wrong? Good question, For one I have always been interested in your FTL stuff, you post lots on that, people may complain but it's better than the drivel that's going on now, maybe a list should be created that is more selective, and further one that suggests people post when they really have stuff to post rather than post for the habit, I am reading so little of the mail lately.Maybe moderated, the problem is that most good people got bored and left, close to doing that myself but I am always scared I will miss that gem! > > > As far as censorship...maybe censorship (actually moderation, don't > confuse the two) is needed to control some of the people who cannot > control themselves. I'd like to see a little moderation; maybe that > would straighten this mess out. > > I was hoping that my post "Cease and Desist" would stop some of this by > pointing out ehat is and is not appropriate for dicussion on this list. > Apparently it did not. Those aren't my rules, they are Bill Beaty's. Go > cry censorship; Bill has every right to censor you or me, its his list. > He provides it free of charge, and has done us a great service. End this > madness now. > > Regards, > Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 06:36:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA26084; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 06:32:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 06:32:59 -0700 Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 09:26:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19981017083800.12479a1a@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: Re: Transition Technologies. Resent-Message-ID: <"BHCzK2.0.PN6.Ao9As"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7115 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To TR Knudtson, What you have shared with us and probably others should go, be stored in some system for future referenced, and easy public access. Why? Because some enterprising company might claim it for their own and not be so sharing and lock up the patent for their betterment. And not alow others to improve on your idea. (Linux is a small free Unix program, the original developer gave it away with few restrictions). So along with the idea or Spirit of giving, we all benefit. ( The orginal developer of Linux is now working for a software developer) So your efforts could very well be rewarded as the on-site developer of you ideas. Thanks for your contributions mike s. stipulations-if any. At 09:35 AM 10/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >Hydrogen Burners: > >Here is a project that that I hope many will enjoy. > >It has long been a hobby of mine to come with adaptive technologies for the >implementation of Hydrogen in conventional appliances, ovens and stoves and >water heaters. I see these things as important to those who dream of the >energy independent home. Hydrogen can be extracted from water easily using >low voltage DC current, and fortunately separates into totally pure gasses, >of Oxygen and hydrogen. Storage of these separated gasses markedly more >safe than Hydroxy systems. And even leaks internal to the home environment >are of increased safety over natural gas, as Hydrogen is non toxic. Even >if leeks were to develop the gas is so light that it dissipates out and >away even through the tinniest of cracks. To insure against the build up of >any hydrogen in a home the simple addition of a escape vent at a high >position in the structure or home is a simple but effective to any >accumulation of hydrogen gas. > >I have seen many designs that employ Stainless Steel Mesh, and finely >orificed machinings and other methods. Most are very expensive, and require >regular and costly replacement. > >I had very little money when I started working with Hydrogen, so I had to >find other ways of forming burners. One type that I am very proud of, is >one that I developed while in school. I had an evening job cleaning a >Laundromat to pay my way through school, and also was taking Ceramics class >during this semester. I had also learned of the lost wax process of >creating voids in ceramic molds. I had an idea, I took some of the dryer >lint that accumulated in abundant supply, and simply entrained it into wet >clay in varying quantities, in each test piece. You might think of this as >looking like fuzzy, thick Tortilla. > >I worked the material thoroughly so that the fibers were well mixed into >the clay, and fired the pieces. > >Clamping these disks into the top of a shallow pan, using a gasket of, tape >asbestos, I fed the pure hydrogen into a small tube, attached to a fitting >in the side of the pan. I used fine silica sand. to disperse the gas >internal to the pan, and the unit worked well. Pure Hydrogen is inert >until in the presence of Oxygen. For a few pennies, I had developed a >useful and workable solution to adaptive burners. I could heat steel on >this burner, cook food, and warm my shop. However the flame tended to >stack up, centering the heating effects. > >On later attempts, I glazed an outer ring, to form a better seal, and >blanked out the center to form a circular strip of porous clay, that looked >like a skinny doughnut, towards the outside of the disk. This did the >trick. I would later developed tube designs with spiral orifice surfaces. >Some with roughed up surfaces that would glow when heated. Long ones, oval >ones, domed ones, almost any shape could be designed once you knew how you >wanted the flame face to look. The designs became easy. They even could >be washed. I invite any and all to try your hand at furthering Hydrogen >technology, and take this simple idea, and run with it. > >I "TR Knudtson", do hereby donate, this principle of Ceramic Adaptive >Technologies, for the benefit of man and to whomever might have the energy >and strength of will to get industry to buy it. (Smile). > >I do seriously hope that one of you might take this ball and give it all >you got, to see that it would come to fruition. They are easy to make, >cheep, and have no moving parts to break. Also, the have all the heat >handling properties needed for this use. You might also be generous and >give some credit to me for the idea. (smile) > >I do hope for the success of this and many other adaptive technologies, and >those who would carry them forward. The transition period, that will surly >come, as people and industry seeks energy alternatives to energy dependency >on polluting hydrocarbon fuels, will need these kinds of simple yet >practical answers. > >Love > >TR Knudtson > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 07:06:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA03700; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 07:02:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 07:02:53 -0700 Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 09:56:03 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19981017090745.1247af56@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: Re: Tomorrow never die ? Resent-Message-ID: <"xnfWf3.0.kv.DEAAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7117 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:58 AM 10/16/98 -0700, you wrote: Hello Lee, others, Thanks for the info. I am also interested in earth changes and I am observing earth changes both from esoteric sources (channeling) and also the scientific community and have and on some occasion have contributed to the alarmist-sky is falling mentality. What I find interesting about the first group (channelers/psychics/prophets) is they make statements with such conviction and their logic seems to flow logically for and others. But... if you will bear/beer with me this little story that was on "In search of" Lenoard Nimoy was the host... interviewed a small group of inventors or developers that got their ideas from a team of sensitives. One example was a prism type of lens that sat on the bridge of ones nose and the function it served was that a person blind in one eye, could use the sighted eye, look into it to give it that additonal 180 degree that other eye no longer could give... this prism I might add was integrated into regualr glasses. The developers said that when ever an Idea was presented it always/usually? was developed as the original idea it was presented as. Not something / idea is presented and now you decide what use it can be put to. I belevie some of us are curious if the channeled enity is really a part of the subconscious that has access to a greater (reality-group consciousness of ideas)and our needs or acceptance level needs to conjure up a fairy story to manifest it... to give it a flavor of mystery. So non logical sources are used to manifest theories via the mysterious vehicle such as (psychics,prophets and soothsayers, etc). Just thoughts... hoping I haven't embarassed/am-bare-assed myself again... but see I can join others in the club on this group. Tongue in cheek mike s. Any thoughts responses of a kind nature.... thanks >At 06:00 PM 10/16/98 +0800, you wrote: >> Hi ..all.... I have got a message that is very terrible !!!! The earth >>will change badly in 2000 / 5 / 5 AD. The earth will be nearer the SUN. All >>cultures will disappear and restart.... Could someone tell me that it is >>true or false ? > >Absolutely false. The origin of that is Richard Noone, who wrote a book >5/5/2000, Ice the Ultimate Disaster in which he forecast a major >conjunction of five planets on that date. He actually was correct and beat >the astronomers to the punch. He is a Mason, and alludes to esoteric and >ancient knowledge (The book, however is interesting and full of interesting >and unknown or unpublicised facts). He obviously believes it himself, for >he sold his house in Florida and moved to Georgia. However he expressed >concern about living at the pivot point when this crustal shift (supposedly >caused by this conjunction) will take place. > >The supposed increased gravitational pull of the five planets is suppose to >cause the Antacrctic Ice Cap to dump into the Indian Ocean, and thus set up >a crustal shift. > >He quoted some info from Prof Bull with the Polar Studies Commission, and >other sources including Einstein and Charles Hapgood. > >Well he scared me, and that launched my own inquisition and self education >into gravity and the nature of gravity. > >One thing I discovered was, that due to the laws of the inverse square, any >gravitational effect of these objects (which includes the moon BTW) is so >diminished as to have no effect at all on the Earth. > >Besides the conjunction will take place on the opposite side of the sun >(from Earth). >One can download a shareware program called Starmap from >http://www.jasc.com and set the dates, lat and long etc to see the stars >and planets at any date, from any place on Earth. The conjunction is >there, no doubt. > >But frankly I wouldn't worry about it. I don't anymore, although at first >he scared me senseless. Another reason why I don't rush to judgement and >withhold belief. > >Mars is 48937500 million miles from Earth that equates to 229820.9568535 >Martian radii(48937500/2120.9375) now square that 229821 (rounded radii) >and you get 52817692041 >divide that into 17.1626 (the rate of fall of objects at the surface of >Mars) and you get 3.249403625338e-010 for a gravitational acceleration at >the surface of the Earth. This is so small that my calculator can't display >it. You can calculate out the rest of these effects for the other planets >involved (Mars, Saturn, Mercury, Venus and Jupiter). > >In other words the gravitational effects (surface gravity or rate of fall >of objects at its surface) is so diminished by the inverse square law over >the distance from those planets to the Earth - that the gravitational >effects of these planets are as of nothing at the surface of the Earth. > >I wouldn't concern myself with 5/5/2000 - I did, unreasonably, and am now >afraid to face friends whom I unduly alarmed after I read Noone's book. If >Noone is correct, then we are all history, save a handful of survivors. Now >if the Earth's crust shifts because that huge chunk of Ice that is sitting >on a cushion of slush at the Ross Ice Shelf, collapses into the Indian >Ocean it will take out Rangoon and could indeed cause earthquakes, >volcanism, high winds and maybe even (according to the demigod Einstein) a >shift of the Earth's crust. Then you will want to find out where the two >pivot points are. > >Incidentally, there is evidence that the Earth's North Pole was located at >the region of Hudsons Bay and indeed the ground thereat is still >rebounding. I think, however the mechanism is different. > >Lee > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 07:12:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA11583; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 06:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 06:52:35 -0700 (PDT) From: RHammar860@aol.com Message-ID: <57575063.362822af@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:53:03 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: FRONTAL LOBOTOMY !!!!!!! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Resent-Message-ID: <"HDJYp2.0.vq2.X4AAs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7116 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-10-15 11:27:24 EDT, you write: << john, interesting post. can you blow away the lords homocidal and genocidal proclivities as easily? even down to the killing of the conquered cities animals? yhvh doesn't seem to run the kind of pace i'd want to live in. how about the killing of children for the teasing of a bald headed priest (or whatever he was). god seems to be a psychopathic schizophrenic who changes his mind like women change their clothes. (no offense, ladies) Dennis >> Hi Dennis The Bible writers were writing as to what there awareness or belief was of God at the time. This is why the early writers are at odds with the latter writers. The latter writers had a greater awareness of the real truth about God and like Jesus had taught that God is a FATHER of all man kind and so that would make us all brothers. This was a new thought for the Jews and therefore did not make them speciel as they had been taught for so many years. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 08:26:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA21076; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 08:24:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 08:24:33 -0700 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhQv8Aqp6bTZab2PTikfGz72MB5osAIUQ680Xjp13Olbi9ospCCMcps191Q= From: dennisgarrett@webtv.net (Dennis Garrett) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 08:26:13 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: FRONTAL LOBOTOMY !!!!!!! Message-ID: <20972-3628B715-399@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"yLBrQ.0.995.nQBAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7118 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: sorry, r. hammar, this is a free energy list. religious philosophy belongs somewhere else. Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 09:13:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA06867; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 09:12:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 09:12:20 -0700 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAlOxNe3TYOLt1jii+cyHeq81FHKoCFDa8KQbbAsuQ8rmFgvUhDUkRH7g2 From: dennisgarrett@webtv.net (Dennis Garrett) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 09:13:56 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: GOD SPEAKS. Message-ID: <20963-3628C244-1556@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"7A99l1.0.8h1.Z7CAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7119 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: i you respond to lee's vapid pseudo humor you just encourage it. free energy site,remember? Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 11:10:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA24194; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:06:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:06:21 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981013220210.008875e0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:02:10 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Transition Technologies. In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19981017083800.12479a1a@pop.mymail.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"KPwvG1.0.xv5.SoDAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7120 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Mike, I have no fear of that, patents here in the US, are not enforced and for the most part are a waste of time. Secondarily, the patent office publishes the issuance of all patents, and abstracts to major industry. It is then the responsibility of the individual to find those who would be infringing and prosecute them in Civil court. I on the other hand, do hope that others will copy and improve on my work. Put your self in my position, I seek to investigate, develop and proof out alternative technologies for the betterment of man. It is the work that I enjoy, not the issue of potential of far off riches. On the other hand the very thing that I do, is foreign to the minds of those who are good at running businesses. Where they on the one side do something that I can not, I have no interest in involving myself in the activity that they find so interesting, and probably would muck it all up. If these posts, help them to get on with changing our world, all the better. I have often said that, "It is a wise man who marks and knows well his limitations, not his strengths". If you find these ideas patentable, please contact me and I will formalize my offer FREE of charge, and will be happy to see you place your best effort behind these technologies. All my best TR Knudtson At 09:26 AM 10/17/98 -0500, you wrote: >To >TR Knudtson, > >What you have shared with us and probably others should go, be stored in >some system for future referenced, and easy public access. Why? Because some >enterprising company might claim it for their own and not be so sharing and >lock up the patent for their betterment. And not alow others to improve on your >idea. (Linux is a small free Unix program, the original developer gave it away >with few restrictions). So along with the idea or Spirit of giving, we all >benefit. ( The orginal developer of Linux is now working for a software >developer) So your efforts could very well be rewarded as the on-site developer >of you ideas. Thanks for your contributions mike s. > > >stipulations-if any. At 09:35 AM 10/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Hydrogen Burners: >> >>Here is a project that that I hope many will enjoy. >> >>It has long been a hobby of mine to come with adaptive technologies for the >>implementation of Hydrogen in conventional appliances, ovens and stoves and >>water heaters. I see these things as important to those who dream of the >>energy independent home. Hydrogen can be extracted from water easily using >>low voltage DC current, and fortunately separates into totally pure gasses, >>of Oxygen and hydrogen. Storage of these separated gasses markedly more >>safe than Hydroxy systems. And even leaks internal to the home environment >>are of increased safety over natural gas, as Hydrogen is non toxic. Even >>if leeks were to develop the gas is so light that it dissipates out and >>away even through the tinniest of cracks. To insure against the build up of >>any hydrogen in a home the simple addition of a escape vent at a high >>position in the structure or home is a simple but effective to any >>accumulation of hydrogen gas. >> >>I have seen many designs that employ Stainless Steel Mesh, and finely >>orificed machinings and other methods. Most are very expensive, and require >>regular and costly replacement. >> >>I had very little money when I started working with Hydrogen, so I had to >>find other ways of forming burners. One type that I am very proud of, is >>one that I developed while in school. I had an evening job cleaning a >>Laundromat to pay my way through school, and also was taking Ceramics class >>during this semester. I had also learned of the lost wax process of >>creating voids in ceramic molds. I had an idea, I took some of the dryer >>lint that accumulated in abundant supply, and simply entrained it into wet >>clay in varying quantities, in each test piece. You might think of this as >>looking like fuzzy, thick Tortilla. >> >>I worked the material thoroughly so that the fibers were well mixed into >>the clay, and fired the pieces. >> >>Clamping these disks into the top of a shallow pan, using a gasket of, tape >>asbestos, I fed the pure hydrogen into a small tube, attached to a fitting >>in the side of the pan. I used fine silica sand. to disperse the gas >>internal to the pan, and the unit worked well. Pure Hydrogen is inert >>until in the presence of Oxygen. For a few pennies, I had developed a >>useful and workable solution to adaptive burners. I could heat steel on >>this burner, cook food, and warm my shop. However the flame tended to >>stack up, centering the heating effects. >> >>On later attempts, I glazed an outer ring, to form a better seal, and >>blanked out the center to form a circular strip of porous clay, that looked >>like a skinny doughnut, towards the outside of the disk. This did the >>trick. I would later developed tube designs with spiral orifice surfaces. >>Some with roughed up surfaces that would glow when heated. Long ones, oval >>ones, domed ones, almost any shape could be designed once you knew how you >>wanted the flame face to look. The designs became easy. They even could >>be washed. I invite any and all to try your hand at furthering Hydrogen >>technology, and take this simple idea, and run with it. >> >>I "TR Knudtson", do hereby donate, this principle of Ceramic Adaptive >>Technologies, for the benefit of man and to whomever might have the energy >>and strength of will to get industry to buy it. (Smile). >> >>I do seriously hope that one of you might take this ball and give it all >>you got, to see that it would come to fruition. They are easy to make, >>cheep, and have no moving parts to break. Also, the have all the heat >>handling properties needed for this use. You might also be generous and >>give some credit to me for the idea. (smile) >> >>I do hope for the success of this and many other adaptive technologies, and >>those who would carry them forward. The transition period, that will surly >>come, as people and industry seeks energy alternatives to energy dependency >>on polluting hydrocarbon fuels, will need these kinds of simple yet >>practical answers. >> >>Love >> >>TR Knudtson >> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 14:06:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA01682; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 13:56:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 13:56:30 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19981017205713.006b4dec@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 16:57:13 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: I quit Resent-Message-ID: <"RAfT93.0.7Q.-HGAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7122 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have been waiting for things to get back to normal on this list but it just keeps going. Last year when I first got on it was an interesting place. Now the B.S. is to much for me. I will leave this list now and stay on Geoff's list. Hopefully this problem won't occur on a new list for a while. So goodbye and maybe I will check in again next year to see how things are going. I can still be reached by private email or Geoff's new list. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 14:07:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA23605; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 12:52:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 12:52:59 -0700 Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 15:46:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19981017145755.119f6846@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: Re: Transition Technologies. Resent-Message-ID: <"hF234.0.im5.QMFAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7121 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear TR Knudtson, Lest I be misunderstood,your motive to help manking is comendable, and I was voicing a concern of a major interest group taking your idea, patent it and then sit on it because they have the money and agenda to defeat others in court who have the same feelings as you in helping mankind. Like the story (I don't beleive it's true) but it serves as an example and sure you heard the story of the 100 mi carborator and the big oil companies bought and put it on the shelf. I was not implying you were interested in money or future financial security, but the security of your idea being developed further for the good of mankind. And I wasn't being critical of you or have had any ill thoughts towards what you want to do but... was stating (above) my thoughts that many good ideas not be pushed out of reach to manking. thanks mike s. At 10:02 PM 10/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >Dear Mike, > > >I have no fear of that, patents here in the US, are not enforced and for >the most part are a waste of time. Secondarily, the patent office >publishes the issuance of all patents, and abstracts to major industry. It >is then the responsibility of the individual to find those who would be >infringing and prosecute them in Civil court. > >I on the other hand, do hope that others will copy and improve on my work. > >Put your self in my position, I seek to investigate, develop and proof out >alternative technologies for the betterment of man. It is the work that I >enjoy, not the issue of potential of far off riches. On the other hand the >very thing that I do, is foreign to the minds of those who are good at >running businesses. Where they on the one side do something that I can >not, I have no interest in involving myself in the activity that they find >so interesting, and probably would muck it all up. If these posts, help >them to get on with changing our world, all the better. > >I have often said that, "It is a wise man who marks and knows well his >limitations, not his strengths". > >If you find these ideas patentable, please contact me and I will formalize >my offer FREE of charge, and will be happy to see you place your best >effort behind these technologies. > >All my best > >TR Knudtson >At 09:26 AM 10/17/98 -0500, you wrote: >>To >>TR Knudtson, >> >>What you have shared with us and probably others should go, be stored in >>some system for future referenced, and easy public access. Why? Because some >>enterprising company might claim it for their own and not be so sharing and >>lock up the patent for their betterment. And not alow others to improve on >your >>idea. (Linux is a small free Unix program, the original developer gave it >away >>with few restrictions). So along with the idea or Spirit of giving, we all >>benefit. ( The orginal developer of Linux is now working for a software >>developer) So your efforts could very well be rewarded as the on-site >developer >>of you ideas. Thanks for your contributions mike s. >> >> >>stipulations-if any. At 09:35 AM 10/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>Hydrogen Burners: >>> >>>Here is a project that that I hope many will enjoy. >>> >>>It has long been a hobby of mine to come with adaptive technologies for the >>>implementation of Hydrogen in conventional appliances, ovens and stoves and >>>water heaters. I see these things as important to those who dream of the >>>energy independent home. Hydrogen can be extracted from water easily using >>>low voltage DC current, and fortunately separates into totally pure gasses, >>>of Oxygen and hydrogen. Storage of these separated gasses markedly more >>>safe than Hydroxy systems. And even leaks internal to the home environment >>>are of increased safety over natural gas, as Hydrogen is non toxic. Even >>>if leeks were to develop the gas is so light that it dissipates out and >>>away even through the tinniest of cracks. To insure against the build up of >>>any hydrogen in a home the simple addition of a escape vent at a high >>>position in the structure or home is a simple but effective to any >>>accumulation of hydrogen gas. >>> >>>I have seen many designs that employ Stainless Steel Mesh, and finely >>>orificed machinings and other methods. Most are very expensive, and require >>>regular and costly replacement. >>> >>>I had very little money when I started working with Hydrogen, so I had to >>>find other ways of forming burners. One type that I am very proud of, is >>>one that I developed while in school. I had an evening job cleaning a >>>Laundromat to pay my way through school, and also was taking Ceramics class >>>during this semester. I had also learned of the lost wax process of >>>creating voids in ceramic molds. I had an idea, I took some of the dryer >>>lint that accumulated in abundant supply, and simply entrained it into wet >>>clay in varying quantities, in each test piece. You might think of this as >>>looking like fuzzy, thick Tortilla. >>> >>>I worked the material thoroughly so that the fibers were well mixed into >>>the clay, and fired the pieces. >>> >>>Clamping these disks into the top of a shallow pan, using a gasket of, tape >>>asbestos, I fed the pure hydrogen into a small tube, attached to a fitting >>>in the side of the pan. I used fine silica sand. to disperse the gas >>>internal to the pan, and the unit worked well. Pure Hydrogen is inert >>>until in the presence of Oxygen. For a few pennies, I had developed a >>>useful and workable solution to adaptive burners. I could heat steel on >>>this burner, cook food, and warm my shop. However the flame tended to >>>stack up, centering the heating effects. >>> >>>On later attempts, I glazed an outer ring, to form a better seal, and >>>blanked out the center to form a circular strip of porous clay, that looked >>>like a skinny doughnut, towards the outside of the disk. This did the >>>trick. I would later developed tube designs with spiral orifice surfaces. >>>Some with roughed up surfaces that would glow when heated. Long ones, oval >>>ones, domed ones, almost any shape could be designed once you knew how you >>>wanted the flame face to look. The designs became easy. They even could >>>be washed. I invite any and all to try your hand at furthering Hydrogen >>>technology, and take this simple idea, and run with it. >>> >>>I "TR Knudtson", do hereby donate, this principle of Ceramic Adaptive >>>Technologies, for the benefit of man and to whomever might have the energy >>>and strength of will to get industry to buy it. (Smile). >>> >>>I do seriously hope that one of you might take this ball and give it all >>>you got, to see that it would come to fruition. They are easy to make, >>>cheep, and have no moving parts to break. Also, the have all the heat >>>handling properties needed for this use. You might also be generous and >>>give some credit to me for the idea. (smile) >>> >>>I do hope for the success of this and many other adaptive technologies, and >>>those who would carry them forward. The transition period, that will surly >>>come, as people and industry seeks energy alternatives to energy dependency >>>on polluting hydrocarbon fuels, will need these kinds of simple yet >>>practical answers. >>> >>>Love >>> >>>TR Knudtson >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 14:49:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA16521; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 14:45:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 14:45:49 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981017021157.00a41180@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 02:11:57 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: GOD SPEAKS. In-Reply-To: <20963-3628C244-1556@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ncaNr3.0.w14.C0HAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7124 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:13 AM 10/17/98 -0700, you wrote: >i you respond to lee's vapid pseudo humor you just encourage it. >free energy site,remember? >Dennis Just can't let slide the opportunity to hurl an insult can you Dennis? Quite obvious that I've gotten under your skin, more than free energy at stake here perhaps. Insult is always the ultimate recourse. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 14:51:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA16483; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 14:45:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 14:45:46 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981017015745.00a56980@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 01:57:45 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Tomorrow never die ? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19981017090745.1247af56@pop.mymail.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"aUxh3.0.R14.90HAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7123 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The web is full of Channelers, and each of them has their own story, which contradicts that of others, and each claims a different source (for instance Zeta Reticulans and Andromedians). I lurk (I really do lurk) on a lot of forums, and see all kind of outrageous prophecies (that never come true look for a mass landing next month for instance). The human mind is interesting and not at all understood. It is a super computer and apparently is processing stuff in the background. Some folk seem able to consciously tap into their subconscious. Channelers do not come up with original information, all of their information has origin in stuff that they have read, seen or heard already. Lamentably, I have an acquaintance who although well schooled in physics and defends to the death Newton, insists on giving credence to a channeler. Channeler's are earstwhile people, in the main, who mean well, although some are obviously in it for the money and fame (folk like Drunvalvo Melchesidek, who has created a multi level marketing scam by conferring Priesthoods in his Flower of Life religion). One gal, who claims to channel Zeta Reticulans (www.zetatalk.com), which according to the beliefs of others are reptoids, has read Zecharia Sitchin and claims that the planet Nibiru is now on its way back into the solar system and will cause a world wide catastrophe in the year 2003, she even uses Skymap to project its path. I don't think so. In any event I am not going to worry about it, what will be, will be and I have no means to escape any such event, so I might as well live my life as if nothing is going to happen. When all of these channelers can get there act together and sing the same song, I might (repeat might) decide to listen, for the time being they are singing different songs and I am not inclined to abandon reason and jump on board any belief system. I lived for nine years in Santa Cruz, CA (Woo Woo land) and had a lot of friends who were "new agers" and believers in just about everything. Nice folk, in the main, but easily defrauded and ever hopeful for salvation by some rescuer from above. Tired of waiting for one messiah, they opted for Space Brethern. Heavens Gate should serve as a warning for the sentient. Then again how much can one expect from a species than lives in a nitrogen rich atmosphere (78%). Lee At 09:56 AM 10/17/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 11:58 AM 10/16/98 -0700, you wrote: >Hello Lee, others, Thanks for the info. I am also interested in earth changes >and I am observing earth changes both from esoteric sources (channeling) and >also the scientific community and have and on some occasion have contributed >to the alarmist-sky is falling mentality. > >What I find interesting about the first group (channelers/psychics/prophets) >is they make statements with such conviction and their logic seems to flow >logically for and others. > >But... if you will bear/beer with me this little story that was on "In >search of" Lenoard Nimoy was the host... interviewed a small group of inventors >or developers that got their ideas from a team of sensitives. One example was >a prism type of lens that sat on the bridge of ones nose and the function >it served was that a person blind in one eye, could use the sighted eye, >look into it to give it that additonal 180 degree that other eye no longer >could give... this prism I might add was integrated into regualr glasses. > >The developers said that when ever an Idea was presented it always/usually? >was developed as the original idea it was presented as. Not something / idea >is presented and now you decide what use it can be put to. > >I belevie some of us are curious if the channeled enity is really a part >of the subconscious that has access to a greater (reality-group consciousness >of ideas)and our needs or acceptance level needs to conjure up a fairy story >to manifest it... to give it a flavor of mystery. So non logical sources are >used to manifest theories via the mysterious vehicle such as >(psychics,prophets and soothsayers, etc). >Just thoughts... hoping I haven't embarassed/am-bare-assed myself again... >but see I can join others in the club on this group. >Tongue in cheek mike s. > >Any thoughts responses of a kind nature.... thanks > > > > >>At 06:00 PM 10/16/98 +0800, you wrote: >>> Hi ..all.... I have got a message that is very terrible !!!! The earth >>>will change badly in 2000 / 5 / 5 AD. The earth will be nearer the SUN. All >>>cultures will disappear and restart.... Could someone tell me that it is >>>true or false ? >> >>Absolutely false. The origin of that is Richard Noone, who wrote a book >>5/5/2000, Ice the Ultimate Disaster in which he forecast a major >>conjunction of five planets on that date. He actually was correct and beat >>the astronomers to the punch. He is a Mason, and alludes to esoteric and >>ancient knowledge (The book, however is interesting and full of interesting >>and unknown or unpublicised facts). He obviously believes it himself, for >>he sold his house in Florida and moved to Georgia. However he expressed >>concern about living at the pivot point when this crustal shift (supposedly >>caused by this conjunction) will take place. >> >>The supposed increased gravitational pull of the five planets is suppose to >>cause the Antacrctic Ice Cap to dump into the Indian Ocean, and thus set up >>a crustal shift. >> >>He quoted some info from Prof Bull with the Polar Studies Commission, and >>other sources including Einstein and Charles Hapgood. >> >>Well he scared me, and that launched my own inquisition and self education >>into gravity and the nature of gravity. >> >>One thing I discovered was, that due to the laws of the inverse square, any >>gravitational effect of these objects (which includes the moon BTW) is so >>diminished as to have no effect at all on the Earth. >> >>Besides the conjunction will take place on the opposite side of the sun >>(from Earth). >>One can download a shareware program called Starmap from >>http://www.jasc.com and set the dates, lat and long etc to see the stars >>and planets at any date, from any place on Earth. The conjunction is >>there, no doubt. >> >>But frankly I wouldn't worry about it. I don't anymore, although at first >>he scared me senseless. Another reason why I don't rush to judgement and >>withhold belief. >> >>Mars is 48937500 million miles from Earth that equates to 229820.9568535 >>Martian radii(48937500/2120.9375) now square that 229821 (rounded radii) >>and you get 52817692041 >>divide that into 17.1626 (the rate of fall of objects at the surface of >>Mars) and you get 3.249403625338e-010 for a gravitational acceleration at >>the surface of the Earth. This is so small that my calculator can't display >>it. You can calculate out the rest of these effects for the other planets >>involved (Mars, Saturn, Mercury, Venus and Jupiter). >> >>In other words the gravitational effects (surface gravity or rate of fall >>of objects at its surface) is so diminished by the inverse square law over >>the distance from those planets to the Earth - that the gravitational >>effects of these planets are as of nothing at the surface of the Earth. >> >>I wouldn't concern myself with 5/5/2000 - I did, unreasonably, and am now >>afraid to face friends whom I unduly alarmed after I read Noone's book. If >>Noone is correct, then we are all history, save a handful of survivors. Now >>if the Earth's crust shifts because that huge chunk of Ice that is sitting >>on a cushion of slush at the Ross Ice Shelf, collapses into the Indian >>Ocean it will take out Rangoon and could indeed cause earthquakes, >>volcanism, high winds and maybe even (according to the demigod Einstein) a >>shift of the Earth's crust. Then you will want to find out where the two >>pivot points are. >> >>Incidentally, there is evidence that the Earth's North Pole was located at >>the region of Hudsons Bay and indeed the ground thereat is still >>rebounding. I think, however the mechanism is different. >> >>Lee >> >> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 14:54:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA20744; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 14:52:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 14:52:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199810172154.RAA07158@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: Muller Magnetic Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:42:29 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6BXNF3.0.245.m6HAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7125 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I requested info from Muller magnetic group a week ot two ago, nothing has come in. I am possibly interested in purchasing these expensive efficient generators. Not a good way to run a business I would think. Will post any response info to list. mnorris@akron.infi.net ---------- > From: Lee Markland > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Muller Magnetic > Date: Thursday, October 15, 1998 12:14 PM > > Pricey Video's ($100 - $120) and no specs or ordering info on the motors. > > Lee > > At 05:55 PM 10/15/98 -0700, you wrote: > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Dan Quickert > >To: 'freenrg-l@eskimo.com' > >Date: Thursday, October 15, 1998 10:31 AM > >Subject: RE: Muller Magnetic > > > > > >>Rob Polley wrote: > >>>A couple of years ago someone on this list set up a page for a Canadian > >>>inventor in Penticton B.C. named Muller, I would like to follow up on some > >>>of the information that was presented, if anyone can give me a name or > >>>current URL I would appreciate it. > >> > >>a quick Web search on Penticton and Muller and magnet came up with: > >> > >>http://www.polar.bc.ca/magnet/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 14:58:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA22748; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 14:57:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 14:57:05 -0700 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAuAhUAhWGn7uX5MbaXnXPCfvrWMavWIeQCFQC/m/opxRMpIj2p40X+w15Ak2gs4g== From: dennisgarrett@webtv.net (Dennis Garrett) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 14:58:45 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tomorrow never die ? Message-ID: <20965-36291315-3280@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"8B9nA2.0.MZ5.nAHAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7126 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: the problem with sitchins planet is that the average temperature is about that of liquid helium. no place i'd want to vacation. Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 15:42:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA00576; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 15:38:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 15:38:27 -0700 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhQefo3CQSnZqgPMizdEJ8Wz2tkl9AIUUE3pJvo1s8g0GwjRc1PZ4wPscGI= From: dennisgarrett@webtv.net (Dennis Garrett) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 15:40:07 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: rife/bare Message-ID: <14487-36291CC7-488@mailtod-172.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"4E-8F.0.v8.ZnHAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7127 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: anybody have any experience with building one of these units? i want to get the book and try it, but i want to know some competent advice is available when (not if, when) i need it. thanks in advance, Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 16:27:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA09796; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 16:25:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 16:25:37 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20965-36291315-3280@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 13:15:42 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Tomorrow never die ? Resent-Message-ID: <"-vAQx3.0.tO2.mTIAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7128 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dennis - >the problem with sitchins planet is that the average temperature is >about that of liquid helium. no place i'd want to vacation. Planets can heat themselves from within. The degree to which they do that can vary. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 16:49:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26849; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 16:46:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 16:46:57 -0700 (PDT) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhQib0sS70+29MX2IK6+9cmvE5i7bgIVAMcDPTo9On+dz2qQackauur6c4Gv From: dennisgarrett@webtv.net (Dennis Garrett) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 16:38:57 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tomorrow never die ? Message-ID: <14483-36292A91-2921@mailtod-172.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"al3Dp.0.RZ6.lnIAs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7129 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: what about when it gets near a sun? wouldn't things overheat? anything making that much heat internally must be ferocious when not in interstellar space. Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 17:35:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA26902; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 17:32:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 17:32:08 -0700 From: dtmiller@mcleodusa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tomorrow never die ? Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 00:34:21 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@mcleodusa.net Message-ID: <36293519.28727162@email.mcleodusa.net> References: <20965-36291315-3280@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: <20965-36291315-3280@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA26839 Resent-Message-ID: <"es5mA2.0.Fa6.7SJAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7130 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dennis, On Sat, 17 Oct 1998 14:58:45 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >the problem with sitchins planet is that the average temperature is >about that of liquid helium. no place i'd want to vacation. Why would that be? How much heat comes from the interior of Sitchin's planet? (How much comes from the interior of the Earth?) Bigger planets have higher surface temperatures (because the volume of the planet increases as a cube of the radius, while the surface increase as a square of the surface). Since Sitchin's planet is 2-3 times the 'size' of the Earth (I don't know if that's radius or volume), it's internally generated heat could be enough to provide Earth-like surface temperatures without solar heating. In fact, that may be why the people from that planet came to Earth to mine gold. Gold would be an excellent reflector of solar radiation. So if you could somehow suspend gold in the upper atmosphere, you'd reflect most of the heat. That would keep the surface temperature from getting too hot. (The gold would also reflect escaping planetary heat back toward the ground, keeping the surface warmer when it's in the deeps of space.) -- Dean -- from Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 17:48:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA31087; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 17:40:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 17:40:42 -0700 Message-ID: <0a5401bdfa2f$c59ab7e0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Tomorrow never die ? Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 20:39:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"076Ga.0.Nb7.9aJAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7131 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: When was the last alignment? I feel that people are forgetting there is more forces out there than we really understand, I believe it was shown a few years back that two quantum particles could affect each other over a distance of 10 miles - no explanation for which force was doing it however - definitely not any that are well understood by modern physics. I would be interested if you could provide the spin axis of these aligning planets, will the spins line up? Or say the magnetic poles, will they be in any kind of formation when these planets line up? I agree gravity wise the force will be insignificant, but perhaps five planets spinning in the same formation may cause wierd quantum fluctuations that can really reach out and touch someone. I have yet to find a program that shows the magnetic poles and spin axis of the planets as they rotate about the sun, all those programs treat the planets as static bodies and that is in error. >At 06:00 PM 10/16/98 +0800, you wrote: >> Hi ..all.... I have got a message that is very terrible !!!! The earth >>will change badly in 2000 / 5 / 5 AD. The earth will be nearer the SUN. All >>cultures will disappear and restart.... Could someone tell me that it is >>true or false ? > >Absolutely false. The origin of that is Richard Noone, who wrote a book >5/5/2000, Ice the Ultimate Disaster in which he forecast a major >conjunction of five planets on that date. He actually was correct and beat >the astronomers to the punch. He is a Mason, and alludes to esoteric and >ancient knowledge (The book, however is interesting and full of interesting >and unknown or unpublicised facts). He obviously believes it himself, for >he sold his house in Florida and moved to Georgia. However he expressed >concern about living at the pivot point when this crustal shift (supposedly >caused by this conjunction) will take place. > >The supposed increased gravitational pull of the five planets is suppose to >cause the Antacrctic Ice Cap to dump into the Indian Ocean, and thus set up >a crustal shift. > >He quoted some info from Prof Bull with the Polar Studies Commission, and >other sources including Einstein and Charles Hapgood. > >Well he scared me, and that launched my own inquisition and self education >into gravity and the nature of gravity. > >One thing I discovered was, that due to the laws of the inverse square, any >gravitational effect of these objects (which includes the moon BTW) is so >diminished as to have no effect at all on the Earth. > >Besides the conjunction will take place on the opposite side of the sun >(from Earth). >One can download a shareware program called Starmap from >http://www.jasc.com and set the dates, lat and long etc to see the stars >and planets at any date, from any place on Earth. The conjunction is >there, no doubt. > >But frankly I wouldn't worry about it. I don't anymore, although at first >he scared me senseless. Another reason why I don't rush to judgement and >withhold belief. > >Mars is 48937500 million miles from Earth that equates to 229820.9568535 >Martian radii(48937500/2120.9375) now square that 229821 (rounded radii) >and you get 52817692041 >divide that into 17.1626 (the rate of fall of objects at the surface of >Mars) and you get 3.249403625338e-010 for a gravitational acceleration at >the surface of the Earth. This is so small that my calculator can't display >it. You can calculate out the rest of these effects for the other planets >involved (Mars, Saturn, Mercury, Venus and Jupiter). > >In other words the gravitational effects (surface gravity or rate of fall >of objects at its surface) is so diminished by the inverse square law over >the distance from those planets to the Earth - that the gravitational >effects of these planets are as of nothing at the surface of the Earth. > >I wouldn't concern myself with 5/5/2000 - I did, unreasonably, and am now >afraid to face friends whom I unduly alarmed after I read Noone's book. If >Noone is correct, then we are all history, save a handful of survivors. Now >if the Earth's crust shifts because that huge chunk of Ice that is sitting >on a cushion of slush at the Ross Ice Shelf, collapses into the Indian >Ocean it will take out Rangoon and could indeed cause earthquakes, >volcanism, high winds and maybe even (according to the demigod Einstein) a >shift of the Earth's crust. Then you will want to find out where the two >pivot points are. > >Incidentally, there is evidence that the Earth's North Pole was located at >the region of Hudsons Bay and indeed the ground thereat is still >rebounding. I think, however the mechanism is different. > >Lee > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 18:29:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA10739; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 18:28:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 18:28:36 -0700 Message-ID: <0b9a01bdfa36$7de54f80$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Transition Technologies. Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 21:27:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"yERVp1.0.ed2.3HKAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7132 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I have no fear of that, patents here in the US, are not enforced and for Unless you are a big company with lots of lawyers and money. The little guy usually cannot enforce them. >the most part are a waste of time. Secondarily, the patent office >publishes the issuance of all patents, and abstracts to major industry. It >is then the responsibility of the individual to find those who would be >infringing and prosecute them in Civil court. I feel the patent system has outlived its useful purpose in our society, just another tool the larger-richer element uses to hold back the rest now. If greed was not such a good motivator for people to do things, perhaps that is an essential flaw with the whole system, your greed has to drive you. When is it too high a price to pay? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 18:42:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA14864; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 18:40:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 18:40:59 -0700 Message-ID: <0bce01bdfa38$385132c0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Cc: Subject: Re: I quit Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 21:39:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"W4MAC2.0.Ae3.hSKAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7133 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Quitters never win, stay! -----Original Message----- From: wood To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Saturday, October 17, 1998 5:05 PM Subject: I quit > I have been waiting for things to get back to normal on this list but it >just keeps going. Last year when I first got on it was an interesting place. >Now the B.S. is to much for me. I will leave this list now and stay on >Geoff's list. Hopefully this problem won't occur on a new list for a while. > So goodbye and maybe I will check in again next year to see how things are >going. I can still be reached by private email or Geoff's new list. > > > > Woody > > Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick >themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 18:58:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA22706; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 18:54:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 18:54:04 -0700 Message-ID: <0c0901bdfa3a$0a26bd00$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Tomorrow never die ? Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 21:50:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"7xxvy1.0.iY5.weKAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7135 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >One gal, who claims to channel Zeta Reticulans (www.zetatalk.com), which >according to the beliefs of others are reptoids, has read Zecharia Sitchin >and claims that the planet Nibiru is now on its way back into the solar >system and will cause a world wide catastrophe in the year 2003, she even >uses Skymap to project its path. I will agree that considering our measurements of our solar system there are no new planets comin round the bend. But then our measurements are with just a few forces that we understand. And there are several we don't. >I don't think so. In any event I am not going to worry about it, what will >be, will be and I have no means to escape any such event, so I might as >well live my life as if nothing is going to happen. > >When all of these channelers can get there act together and sing the same >song, I might (repeat might) decide to listen, for the time being they are >singing different songs and I am not inclined to abandon reason and jump on >board any belief system. I disagree, have you not heard the old quote, the more genius you have, the more fools will sing against you. Because more people believe something does not make it right, lots of people used to believe the earth was flat. >I lived for nine years in Santa Cruz, CA (Woo Woo land) and had a lot of >friends who were "new agers" and believers in just about everything. That explains a lot. You should have went surfing. Nice >folk, in the main, but easily defrauded and ever hopeful for salvation by >some rescuer from above. Tired of waiting for one messiah, they opted for >Space Brethern. Heavens Gate should serve as a warning for the sentient. That was all a ploy by Nike for media exposure and you fell for it. I wonder how long a nike shoe will last running on meteor fallout before the rubber gives way? >Then again how much can one expect from a species than lives in a nitrogen >rich atmosphere (78%). I wonder if you know what breathing pure nitrogen or for that matter any element for an extended period does, even pure oxygen is bad for you if you breathe it for a long time. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 18:59:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA19023; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 18:48:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 18:48:58 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 20:59:24 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: NIGHTFALL (Tomorrow never die?) Resent-Message-ID: <"5e4Dy2.0.ue4.8aKAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7134 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I would be curious to know when was the last such planetary alignment as is scheduled to occur on May 5, 2000. If it was (for instance) 100 years ago, then --- since our "ancestors" somehow "survived", I would not be very concerned about the upcoming alignment. If, however, the last such alignment was c. 65,000,000 million years ago (during the approximate time of the dinosaur extinction) --- I would certainly want to 'take another look' at this forthcoming alignment. It would appear, at first glance, that if a number of the planets were aligning themselves on the OPPOSITE side of the sun then this, when combined with the sun's magnetic field, would have a cumulative effect that would be greater than if the planets were becoming aligned on the SAME side of the sun (as the earth). I believe, as Faraday said, neutrality to a magnetic field does not exist. And since I've gradually come to accept the position that "everything in the universe is related to everything else -- it is only our task to discover how" --- then I am interested in the explicit astronomical details of this apparent May 5, 2000 "alignment." Somewhere in the back of my memory, I recall an interesting short story -- a highly-recommended, classic science fiction work called "NIGHTFALL" by Isaac Asimov. This insightful story is a testament to the necessity of keeping accurate records and to be willing to at least honestly entertain seemingly fanciful hypothesis. Evan Soule' >When was the last alignment? I feel that people are forgetting there is more >forces out there than we really understand, I believe it was shown a few >years back that two quantum particles could affect each other over a >distance of 10 miles - no explanation for which force was doing it however - >definitely not any that are well understood by modern physics. I would be >interested if you could provide the spin axis of these aligning planets, >will the spins line up? Or say the magnetic poles, will they be in any kind >of formation when these planets line up? I agree gravity wise the force >will be insignificant, but perhaps five planets spinning in the same >formation may cause wierd quantum fluctuations that can really reach out and >touch someone. I have yet to find a program that shows the magnetic poles >and spin axis of the planets as they rotate about the sun, all those >programs treat the planets as static bodies and that is in error. > > > >>At 06:00 PM 10/16/98 +0800, you wrote: >>> Hi ..all.... I have got a message that is very terrible !!!! The >earth >>>will change badly in 2000 / 5 / 5 AD. The earth will be nearer the SUN. >All >>>cultures will disappear and restart.... Could someone tell me that it is >>>true or false ? >> >>Absolutely false. The origin of that is Richard Noone, who wrote a book >>5/5/2000, Ice the Ultimate Disaster in which he forecast a major >>conjunction of five planets on that date. He actually was correct and beat >>the astronomers to the punch. He is a Mason, and alludes to esoteric and >>ancient knowledge (The book, however is interesting and full of interesting >>and unknown or unpublicised facts). He obviously believes it himself, for >>he sold his house in Florida and moved to Georgia. However he expressed >>concern about living at the pivot point when this crustal shift (supposedly >>caused by this conjunction) will take place. >> >>The supposed increased gravitational pull of the five planets is suppose to >>cause the Antacrctic Ice Cap to dump into the Indian Ocean, and thus set up >>a crustal shift. >> >>He quoted some info from Prof Bull with the Polar Studies Commission, and >>other sources including Einstein and Charles Hapgood. >> >>Well he scared me, and that launched my own inquisition and self education >>into gravity and the nature of gravity. >> >>One thing I discovered was, that due to the laws of the inverse square, any >>gravitational effect of these objects (which includes the moon BTW) is so >>diminished as to have no effect at all on the Earth. >> >>Besides the conjunction will take place on the opposite side of the sun >>(from Earth). >>One can download a shareware program called Starmap from >>http://www.jasc.com and set the dates, lat and long etc to see the stars >>and planets at any date, from any place on Earth. The conjunction is >>there, no doubt. >> >>But frankly I wouldn't worry about it. I don't anymore, although at first >>he scared me senseless. Another reason why I don't rush to judgement and >>withhold belief. >> >>Mars is 48937500 million miles from Earth that equates to 229820.9568535 >>Martian radii(48937500/2120.9375) now square that 229821 (rounded radii) >>and you get 52817692041 >>divide that into 17.1626 (the rate of fall of objects at the surface of >>Mars) and you get 3.249403625338e-010 for a gravitational acceleration at >>the surface of the Earth. This is so small that my calculator can't display >>it. You can calculate out the rest of these effects for the other planets >>involved (Mars, Saturn, Mercury, Venus and Jupiter). >> >>In other words the gravitational effects (surface gravity or rate of fall >>of objects at its surface) is so diminished by the inverse square law over >>the distance from those planets to the Earth - that the gravitational >>effects of these planets are as of nothing at the surface of the Earth. >> >>I wouldn't concern myself with 5/5/2000 - I did, unreasonably, and am now >>afraid to face friends whom I unduly alarmed after I read Noone's book. If >>Noone is correct, then we are all history, save a handful of survivors. Now >>if the Earth's crust shifts because that huge chunk of Ice that is sitting >>on a cushion of slush at the Ross Ice Shelf, collapses into the Indian >>Ocean it will take out Rangoon and could indeed cause earthquakes, >>volcanism, high winds and maybe even (according to the demigod Einstein) a >>shift of the Earth's crust. Then you will want to find out where the two >>pivot points are. >> >>Incidentally, there is evidence that the Earth's North Pole was located at >>the region of Hudsons Bay and indeed the ground thereat is still >>rebounding. I think, however the mechanism is different. >> >>Lee >> >> >> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 19:46:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA02365; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 19:43:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 19:43:44 -0700 From: "Tim Kaiser" To: Subject: Re: I quit Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 21:48:41 -0700 Message-ID: <01bdfa52$945e1d20$177584d0@tnkaiser> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"QHXxH1.0.sa.WNLAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7136 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: How in the heck do I get UNSUBSCRIBED to this list? I'm tired of getting all the nutball messages from people who obviously have far too much time on their hands.... -----Original Message----- From: wood To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Saturday, October 17, 1998 2:03 PM Subject: I quit > I have been waiting for things to get back to normal on this list but it >just keeps going. Last year when I first got on it was an interesting place. >Now the B.S. is to much for me. I will leave this list now and stay on >Geoff's list. Hopefully this problem won't occur on a new list for a while. > So goodbye and maybe I will check in again next year to see how things are >going. I can still be reached by private email or Geoff's new list. > > > > Woody > > Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick >themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 19:56:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA04393; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 19:49:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 19:49:00 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981017225033.00873100@net1plus.com> X-Sender: smcneill@net1plus.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 22:50:33 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Susan McNeill Subject: I'll miss you! In-Reply-To: <01bdfa52$945e1d20$177584d0@tnkaiser> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ok_CQ1.0.Z41.RSLAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7137 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'll miss you, sweetie! So long, Timbimsim of the silly party. I'll plant a big wet one on your forehead. Suzy At 09:48 PM 10/17/98 -0700, you wrote: >How in the heck do I get UNSUBSCRIBED to this list? > >I'm tired of getting all the nutball messages from people who obviously have >far too much time on their hands.... > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: wood >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Date: Saturday, October 17, 1998 2:03 PM >Subject: I quit > > >> I have been waiting for things to get back to normal on this list but it >>just keeps going. Last year when I first got on it was an interesting >place. >>Now the B.S. is to much for me. I will leave this list now and stay on >>Geoff's list. Hopefully this problem won't occur on a new list for a while. >> So goodbye and maybe I will check in again next year to see how things >are >>going. I can still be reached by private email or Geoff's new list. >> >> >> >> Woody >> >> Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick >>themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) >> > > http://members.tripod.com/~Reid_J/lab12.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 20:12:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA12010; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 20:11:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 20:11:31 -0700 Message-Id: <199810180313.XAA14321@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , "keelynet" , Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 23:26:36 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"81B8X3.0.Ux2.YnLAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7138 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: FAST RECOVERY DIODES; VARO SEMICONDUCTOR.INC GARLAND, TEXAS I am trying these diodes out as published spec.s of 250 nanosec recovery time on a binary resonant high freq circuit of 166,000 hz. For my test application I am using a series electrolysis baking soda cell. For those not familiar with fast recovery diodes I thought the companies application notes would be of interest to all. Reverse Recovery Time: The period of time required for a silicon rectitifier to develope its blocking ability after switching from forward conduction is termed "reverse recovery time". A silicon rectifier cannot make an instantaneous switch from forward conduction to reverse blocking. For a momentary period, prior to full blocking, the rectifier is a short circuit, conducting current freely in the wrong direction while the electrical charge that has been built up by forward conduction is "swept out." In typical slow recovery silicon rectifiers, the time required for the rectifier to recover and perform its blocking function may be from 5 to 50 microseconds. Basic process changes must be introduced in device manufacture in order to produce a rectifier with fast recovery characteristics. The most common technique is diffusion of minute quantities of gold into the silicon junction structure before actual device fabrication. I hope more people on the lists take the time to present helpful info to all of us here. Sincerely Harvey Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 22:28:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA06054; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 22:16:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 22:16:41 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981018144728.00875900@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:47:28 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: My solaris screensaver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ADYq83.0.UU1.ucNAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7139 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi! ALL I have just finished a screen saver you may find amusing and with the sound included some would say hypnotic. See if you can tell me what it is saying. Download this free Solaris screen saver in one three forms http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/bp/16/solaris.zip www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/bp/16/solaris.exe I hope you find it amusing and let your friends see it too and then give them a copy PS these files can also be accessed from my free encyclopedia vol 1 download page as well Geoff Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 17 23:26:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA15236; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 23:24:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 23:24:55 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01bdfa52$945e1d20$177584d0@tnkaiser> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 20:23:41 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: I quit Resent-Message-ID: <"A0TVb3.0.-j3.tcOAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7140 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tim - > I'm tired of getting all the nutball messages from > people who obviously have far too much time on > their hands.... Man, you better get yourself off the whole damn internet then. But to get outta here: ************************************************************************* * TO SUBSCRIBE: * * Send a blank email message to freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com with the * * word "subscribe" in the SUBJECT: line. No quotes around * * "subscribe," of course. You will receive a "welcome" message. * * Once subscribed, send your email to freenrg-L@eskimo.com. * * * * * * TO UNSUBSCRIBE: * * Send a blank email message to freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com with the * * word "unsubscribe" in the SUBJECT: line. No quotes around * * "unsubscribe," of course. * * * ************************************************************************* - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 18 00:32:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA23445; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 00:30:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 00:30:32 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: NIGHTFALL (Tomorrow never die?) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 07:32:10 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <362b9923.372115058@24.192.1.20> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wN4L22.0.Fk5.OaPAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7141 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 17 Oct 1998 20:59:24 -0600, Evan Soule wrote: >I would be curious to know when was the last such planetary alignment as is >scheduled to occur on May 5, 2000. If it was (for instance) 100 years ago, >then --- since our "ancestors" somehow "survived", I would not be very >concerned about the upcoming alignment. If, however, the last such >alignment was c. 65,000,000 million years ago (during the approximate time >of the dinosaur extinction) --- I would certainly want to 'take another >look' at this forthcoming alignment. [snip] All who are interested can download a 30 day free trial of SkyMap from: http://www.skymap.com/skymap_eval.htm Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 18 02:03:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA31238; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 01:37:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 01:37:57 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 03:48:46 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: NIGHTFALL (Tomorrow never die?) Resent-Message-ID: <"MZa5J3.0.wd7.bZQAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7142 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >On Sat, 17 Oct 1998 20:59:24 -0600, Evan Soule' wrote: > >>I would be curious to know when was the last such planetary alignment as is >>scheduled to occur on May 5, 2000. If it was (for instance) 100 years ago, >>then --- since our "ancestors" somehow "survived", I would not be very >>concerned about the upcoming alignment. If, however, the last such >>alignment was c. 65,000,000 million years ago (during the approximate time >>of the dinosaur extinction) --- I would certainly want to 'take another >>look' at this forthcoming alignment. >[snip] >All who are interested can download a 30 day free trial of SkyMap >from: >http://www.skymap.com/skymap_eval.htm > > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk Dear Robin, If you have a copy of SkyMap, can you do a "post-temporal-analysis" to determine when the last such alignment occurred? Sincerely, Evan Soule' From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 18 03:30:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA09826; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 03:25:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 03:25:31 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: NIGHTFALL (Tomorrow never die?) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 10:27:07 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <362dc0ef.382305334@24.192.1.20> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Un3w-.0.SP2.R8SAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7143 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 18 Oct 1998 03:48:46 -0600, Evan Soule wrote: [snip] >Dear Robin, > >If you have a copy of SkyMap, can you do a "post-temporal-analysis" to >determine when the last such alignment occurred? > >Sincerely, > >Evan Soule' > Actually the alignment in May 2000 isn't perfect, and doesn't involve all the planets (also it stretches more of less over a 3-5 day period). So I feel that it more or less up to each individual to determine for themselves how much importance they wish to attach to the event. I think that it is instructive to obtain a copy of SkyMap (or alternatively Skyglobe), and take a look yourself. There have been similar circumstances in the past, but it is up to each person to decide which conjunctions of which planets they find important. Besides neither of the two products is ideally suited to this particular task (though with effort each is capable). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 18 06:37:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA07568; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 06:32:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 06:32:57 -0700 Message-ID: <000801bdfa9b$d1b4bdc0$63752599@default> Reply-To: "Clyde Knight Jr." From: "Clyde Knight Jr." To: Subject: Re: Transition Technologies. Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 09:32:50 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Digsb.0.3s1.8uUAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7144 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Bill Wallace To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Saturday, October 17, 1998 9:31 PM Subject: Re: Transition Technologies. >>I have no fear of that, patents here in the US, are not enforced and for > >Unless you are a big company with lots of lawyers and money. The little guy >usually cannot enforce them. > >>the most part are a waste of time. Secondarily, the patent office >>publishes the issuance of all patents, and abstracts to major industry. It >>is then the responsibility of the individual to find those who would be >>infringing and prosecute them in Civil court. > > >I feel the patent system has outlived its useful purpose in our society, >just another tool the larger-richer element uses to hold back the rest now. >If greed was not such a good motivator for people to do things, perhaps >that is an essential flaw with the whole system, your greed has to drive >you. When is it too high a price to pay? I think that you are unfortunately right on target withthis statement in general.... But this a technique which is used by Corporate Entities that can be used by the independent inventor ( little guy) to protect their invention ownership rights) too. And save thousands of dollars. This technique protects corporate entities prior to obtaining a patent for a particualr project until it is determined if that project is feasible or even plausible and then if there is a market for it. Check out Knite Enterprises Inc. they even offer free consultation : http://www.angelfire.com/biz/kniteenterprises/index.html Hope this gives some insight into the world of inventor rights ! Clyde From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 18 06:53:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA13447; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 06:52:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 06:52:23 -0700 Message-ID: <0d2401bdfa9e$65e62400$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: NIGHTFALL (Tomorrow never die?) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 09:51:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"DnQ7D3.0.1I3.MAVAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7145 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Has anyone here ever studied focus galaxies? In essence I believe the galaxy itself acts like a big magnifying glass to light from somewhere else, if light is magnified why not other forces? Could the sun act as a focus mechanism for the planets in such a way that the earth would be at the focal point? It seems that the planets will be lined up on the opposite side of the earth, I agree the gravity effects simply added together can in no way touch us, but perhaps if magnified or if some other force is focused with our green ball at the point - grin. -----Original Message----- From: Evan Soule To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, October 18, 1998 4:40 AM Subject: Re: NIGHTFALL (Tomorrow never die?) >>On Sat, 17 Oct 1998 20:59:24 -0600, Evan Soule' wrote: >> >>>I would be curious to know when was the last such planetary alignment as is >>>scheduled to occur on May 5, 2000. If it was (for instance) 100 years ago, >>>then --- since our "ancestors" somehow "survived", I would not be very >>>concerned about the upcoming alignment. If, however, the last such >>>alignment was c. 65,000,000 million years ago (during the approximate time >>>of the dinosaur extinction) --- I would certainly want to 'take another >>>look' at this forthcoming alignment. >>[snip] >>All who are interested can download a 30 day free trial of SkyMap >>from: >>http://www.skymap.com/skymap_eval.htm >> >> >>Regards, >> >>Robin van Spaandonk > >Dear Robin, > >If you have a copy of SkyMap, can you do a "post-temporal-analysis" to >determine when the last such alignment occurred? > >Sincerely, > >Evan Soule' > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 18 11:09:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA12309; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 11:08:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 11:08:30 -0700 Message-ID: <362A1EB4.94768D87@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 01:00:36 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: NIGHTFALL (Tomorrow never die?) References: <0d2401bdfa9e$65e62400$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xFZKf.0.F03.TwYAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7146 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill Wallace wrote: > Has anyone here ever studied focus galaxies? In essence I believe the > galaxy itself acts like a big magnifying glass to light from somewhere else, > if light is magnified why not other forces? Could the sun act as a focus > mechanism for the planets in such a way that the earth would be at the focal > point? It seems that the planets will be lined up on the opposite side of Focus galaxies -- don't they work by gravitational attraction of light? If so, how would they attract other forces? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 18 11:10:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA12358; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 11:08:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 11:08:45 -0700 Message-ID: <362A2F43.2817E27F@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 02:11:15 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Why like poles repel and unlike poles attract... References: <199810100501.WAA18008@mailhub2.ncal.verio.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4818558691DF6446DBD19E05" Resent-Message-ID: <"tH3e81.0._03.jwYAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7147 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4818558691DF6446DBD19E05 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why assume the force resulted from magenets is the result of the interactions between particles(or fields) emitted by the magnets? If there are two magnets, one emitting the "magnetic particles"(or magnetic field) and one not emitting, do they still attract/repel each other? About a month ago I made a simulation program about magnetism. It worked like this: (I've attached pictures to clarify my description) Moving positive charges emit particles (I don't know if they exist, but I'll just call them "X-particles" here) perpendicular to the direction of the moving charges. Those X-particles result in the magnetic field of the space where they occupy, and the direction of the resulting magnetic field is perpendicular to the direction of the X-particles. And if several X-particles occupy the same space, the resultant field is the sum of the individual fields. And the result of the whole simulation, with the moving charges constantly emitting X-particles, is that the magnetic field lines look like what we would expect of those moving charges. So maybe magnetic-field lines are not "flows" at all. silliman wrote: > > ---------- > > From: Bob Shannon > > Date: Thursday, October 08, 1998 9:01 PM > > > > silliman wrote: > > > > > > Bob, > > > > > > > > > Have you read Steven Rado's book? Steven and I disagree about how > > > magnets work. He thinks that two 'sucking inflows' repel, which he > shows > > > pictures/graphics in his book 'Aethro-Kinematics'. > > > > Never heard of it. How does he describe the process by which two > > 'sucking inflows' repel? > > He says the turbulence generated near the inflow orifice causes the > repelling (which I don't buy). > > > > > > My model is both ends having outflow, but with different spins to the > > > flow. > > > > If this is the case, you now need to explain why the lines of flux are > > always closed. > > See your own explanation later. > > > > > If more and more 'stuff' came out of each end, why doen't the field keep > > growing larger and larger over time? > > All you have to think about is this: If both ends are generating > outflows, > where is the fluid/'stuff' coming from? > > The iron molecule (which is generating this structured outflows) has to > get > 'stuff' from somewhere. If the ends are busy, then the sides are the only > other place available. A porous short tube is a good mechanical model. > > The size of the molecule is important. Keep in mind that magnetic fields > are only 'felt' by other molecules that are the same size as iron. (Yes, > other elements are 'felt' by magnets, but by orders of magnitude smaller.) > > > > > As I seem to recall this other 'interpretation', the flows dont actually > > 'repel', but appear to repel because more space is being drawn into the > > region between 'sucking inflows'. Becuase the 'current' through the > > magnet is a constant (a series circuit if you will) the 'force' is > > exactly equal when we compare this condition to the case of two > > outflows, again we are drawing more space into the region between the > > two opposed poles. > > > > This predicts a qualitiative difference between N-N repulsion and S-S > > repulsion, but not a quantitative difference in the 'force', where the > > quality refers to the orientation of the proposed eather flow. > > Yes, that is why I think that some other model is necessary. > > > > > When uneffected by other nearby flows, the outflow wraps back to the > > inflow and we have the closed loop of the magnetic flux. > > If the outflow is structured like a vortex, then the flow will maintain > its > shape to live long enough to get back. So, just a 'flow' is not enough. > > > > > I still cannot recall where I first read this theory though, its > > maddening! > > > > I do seem to recall that the twist, or rotation of the flow was external > > to the magnet, and accounted for the magnetic 'curl'. This is slightly > > different than my > > first reccolection that placed the twist inside the body of the magnet. > > > > Does anyone recognise this theory/model? Who was the original author? > > My paper of 5 years ago got very limited circulation, but what you > describe > is very close to what I wrote. If you remember lots of pictures and > graphics, > then it might have been mine. > > If not, there are several people who are grasping at anything that looks > like a better answer than the establishment view that it is just a > 'field'. > > > > > Maybe Jerry D. or Bill B. might have come across something like this > > before? > > > > Is this Rado's work?? > > Not if you remember "twist, or rotation of the flow". > > His web site is www.aethro-kinematics.com. > > He talks about other things that you might be interested in. > > Norm --------------4818558691DF6446DBD19E05 Content-Type: image/gif; name="X-particle.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="X-particle.gif" R0lGODlhKgLYALMAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgMDAwICAgP8AAAD/AP//AAAA//8A /wD//////ywAAAAAKgLYAAAE/hDISau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oqq5s675wLM90bd94ru987//A oHBILBqPyKRyyWw6n9CodEqtWq/YrHbL7Xq/4LA4mEiMz+i0en0rs9/wuHxOr9vv+Lx+z+/7 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MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"zwuXP3.0.Zo6.YzeAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7148 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >That could well be. I once built a negative ion generator that produced >negative ions from a needle out the top. When a cigarette was held close to >the needle, the smoke and ash would be blown away in opposition even to >gravity. It was like an omnidirectional wind coming from the needle. A >fascinating toy, when I placed it in a beam of sunlight and stirred the dust >so as to where the floating particles could be seen in the air, these >particles would drop like a stone when they neared the sides of the needle. >Those above the needle would shoot up though. I never did figure out the why >of this. > >Ron > > >Any suggestions as to the reason or cause of the above effect using an ion >generator. > > >Lee > Lee, My dad is heavily into an MLM that sells a combo air purification unit. It has ozone and RF ion generation. The ions supposedly drop dust particles out of the air and then the ozone breaks it up into simpler harmless materials. In his demonstrator unit, he burns some mineral oil to create a thin smoke inside a plexiglass box. When the RF ionizer is switched on, the smoke drops like a rock. This he says, takes harmful particulates out of the air you breathe. The ozone level is kept at the same level you find in refreshing alpine environments(about .05% I think it is). We use one in the winter when you have to keep fresh air out and warm air in. The way he explains the effect of ions dropping particulate out of the air is this: It creates a charge on the particle, which causes it to be attracted to other particles. The particles form larger clumps that then precipitate out of the air. Dave L. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 18 18:09:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA29900; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 18:07:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 18:07:15 -0700 Message-ID: <001901bdfaf6$cc13f240$8bec060c@dlackey> From: "davelook" To: "FREE ENERGY" Subject: Re: Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 20:24:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"JLo2W.0.6J7.23fAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7149 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >That could well be. I once built a negative ion generator that produced >negative ions from a needle out the top. When a cigarette was held close to >the needle, the smoke and ash would be blown away in opposition even to >gravity. It was like an omnidirectional wind coming from the needle. A >fascinating toy, when I placed it in a beam of sunlight and stirred the dust >so as to where the floating particles could be seen in the air, these >particles would drop like a stone when they neared the sides of the needle. >Those above the needle would shoot up though. I never did figure out the why >of this. > >Ron > > >Any suggestions as to the reason or cause of the above effect using an ion >generator. > > >Lee > Lee, My dad is heavily into an MLM that sells a combo air purification unit. It has ozone and negative ion generation. The ions supposedly drop dust particles out of the air and then the ozone breaks it up into simpler harmless materials. In his demonstrator unit, he burns some mineral oil to create a thin smoke inside a plexiglass box. When the RF ionizer is switched on, the smoke drops like a rock. This he says, takes harmful particulates out of the air you breathe. The ozone level is kept at the same level you find in refreshing alpine environments (about .05% I think it is). We use one in the winter when you have to keep fresh air out and warm air in. The way he explains the effect of ions dropping particulate out of the air is this: It creates a charge on the particle, which causes it to be attracted to other particles. The particles form larger clumps that then precipitate out of the air. Dave L. BTW, looks like you were right about the B2 charging it's exhaust. The March 9, I forget the year(1993?), issue of "Aviation and Space Technology" broke that one. Some scientists broke the code of silence on that one and went to A&ST. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 18 18:57:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA10219; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 18:55:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 18:55:18 -0700 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199810180313.XAA14321@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 21:53:13 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Most Needed Inventions Resent-Message-ID: <"tfJDd3.0.bV2.6mfAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7150 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Most Needed Inventions Obviously free energy is high on the list of most need inventions to improve the quality of life for vast numbers of people on the planet while reducing pollution. Since there is little free energy news while folks are working out their next energy options, I thought it might be useful to look at what other inventions are most needed by mankind. If there is another list server that would be better for this discussion, please direct me... Those not interested maybe could ignore the thread. Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 18 19:22:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA17392; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 19:19:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 19:19:12 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01bdfb07$2e504fc0$6a298e8b@plassy> From: "Plasmatic" To: Subject: Re: Most Needed Inventions Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 20:21:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA17373 Resent-Message-ID: <"tSA0n3.0.fF4.V6gAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7151 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If Free Energy isn't currently close enough, then we atleast have two points we must be able to work towards: Less Pollution - Unlimited Resource. These are obviously two things provided by Free Energy, but until we can reach that, we need something in t he mean time. Of course, the first question we have to ask is: What causes all the pollution today and what can be done to reverse it? Now we all have something to brain storm on, to find something for a new invention. Anyone have some answers to this question? -Plasmatic Plas@Dlcwest.Com Back from Lurking... -----Original Message----- From: Richard Austin To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: October 18, 1998 7:58 PM Subject: Most Needed Inventions >Most Needed Inventions >Obviously free energy is high on the list of most need inventions to improve the quality of life for vast numbers of people on the planet while reducing pollution. > >Since there is little free energy news while folks are working out their next energy options, I thought it might be useful to look at what other inventions are most needed by mankind. > >If there is another list server that would be better for this discussion, please direct me... > >Those not interested maybe could ignore the thread. > >Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU >Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 18 19:29:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA19062; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 19:24:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 19:24:54 -0700 Message-ID: <000801bdfb08$79fee520$02000003@nim-machine> From: "Psy-Kosh" To: Subject: Re: Most Needed Inventions Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 22:30:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"2tYTe3.0.gf4.rBgAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7152 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ok, this one is odd, but i've been thinking about it for a while. The human body takes apart carbohydrate molecules to get energy, right? right. That means that it takes a certain amout of energy to construct those molecules. So here is what I think would be a good idea: (It will probably be about a decade or two before we're actually able to do this,) construct nanobots that use ambient radiation or a once a day exposure of some EM energy that is not harmful to humans, or a ZPE source (actually, I have an idea obout one that would be ideally suited to nanotech) to reconstruct the carbohydrate molecules. (Look ma, I just solved world hunger. :-). oh, that idea for a zpe generator is to take some magnetic molecule, trap it in a ctype of conductive cage, (a conductive version of a buckyball) connect that to a pair of small diodes (really small) and there you go. The nice thing about this one is that it seems to me at least that even if it did not tap the ZPE, it would still be a negentropic generatod. ie, i think that you would be able to put a "battery" connsisting of several million (billion?) of these generators in an isonthermic situation, and it would convert the heat to electricity. what do you think? -----Original Message----- From: Richard Austin To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, October 18, 1998 9:59 PM Subject: Most Needed Inventions >Most Needed Inventions >Obviously free energy is high on the list of most need inventions to improve the quality of life for vast numbers of people on the planet while reducing pollution. > >Since there is little free energy news while folks are working out their next energy options, I thought it might be useful to look at what other inventions are most needed by mankind. > >If there is another list server that would be better for this discussion, please direct me... > >Those not interested maybe could ignore the thread. > >Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU >Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 18 20:06:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA32698; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 20:04:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 20:04:52 -0700 Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:05:16 -0400 From: Ralph E Griffin Subject: Re: Cease and desist! Sender: Ralph E Griffin To: Free Energy List Message-ID: <199810182305_MC2-5D1E-9687@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA32665 Resent-Message-ID: <"gavpX2.0.n-7.JngAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7153 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: >Perhaps it is time someone reposted the rules of Freenrg-L, such as what >is and is not off-topic. I don't know about the rest of you, but some of >us have been in contact via private email, and we are sick of this >pointless bickering. > >What is on-topic: > > * "Overunity" > * Electrogravity & inertia violation > * Scalar Electromagnetism > * Psi phenomena and Paranormal > * Relativity violation and yes, FTL is close enough. I have been on this list for 2.5 years, and I have read the archives back to the beginning in Sept 95. I have never seen it this bad before, not even close. I may be missing something important if it is listed under the wrong subject because there is so much BS that I have to just scan the subjects and skip the ones that have been of topic in the past. I wish our host, William Beaty would do (or at least say) something about this problem. Perhaps he is just shaking his head and saying "It is hopeless." Perhaps that is true, but I am not convinced that it is true. It appears to me that at least half the traffic on this list lately has been generated by one person and by others objecting to his obsurdity. Just ignore him. This will deny him the satifaction that he seeks from the irritation of others. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 18 21:30:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA25346; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 21:29:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 21:29:14 -0700 Message-ID: <362ABFA1.1ECBC1DC@GroupZ.net> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 00:27:13 -0400 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cease and desist! (off topic?) References: <199810182305_MC2-5D1E-9687@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EcwPy2.0.tB6.P0iAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7154 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I would like to request that all off topic posts, as a minimum, and as a common courtesy, have "off topic" in the subject line....this allows those who do not want to receive off topic information, to easily filter them out, using most mail program filters....people posting off topic, do not realize. that some of us are subscribed to many lists...and sorting through 300 - 400 msgs each day takes a lot of time, which some of us do not have... please consider this when posting off topic msgs...thanks... steve opelc Ralph E Griffin wrote: > > Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > > >Perhaps it is time someone reposted the rules of Freenrg-L, such as what > >is and is not off-topic. I don't know about the rest of you, but some of > >us have been in contact via private email, and we are sick of this > >pointless bickering. > > > >What is on-topic: > > > > * "Overunity" > > * Electrogravity & inertia violation > > * Scalar Electromagnetism > > * Psi phenomena and Paranormal > > * Relativity violation > and yes, FTL is close enough. > > I have been on this list for 2.5 years, and I have read the archives back > to the beginning in Sept 95. I have never seen it this bad before, not even > close. I may be missing something important if it is listed under the wrong > subject because there is so much BS that I have to just scan the subjects > and skip the ones that have been of topic in the past. > > I wish our host, William Beaty would do (or at least say) something about > this problem. Perhaps he is just shaking his head and saying "It is > hopeless." Perhaps that is true, but I am not convinced that it is true. > > It appears to me that at least half the traffic on this list lately has > been generated by one person and by others objecting to his obsurdity. Just > ignore him. This will deny him the satifaction that he seeks from the > irritation of others. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 18 22:17:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA08261; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 22:15:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 22:15:43 -0700 Message-ID: <004d01bdfb1f$d361c580$6b298e8b@plassy> From: "Plasmatic" To: Subject: Re: Most Needed Inventions Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:17:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA08233 Resent-Message-ID: <"ePKG82.0.z02.-hiAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7155 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have another idea of this too. Could we make a generator that uses the energy given off when taking apart carbohydrates? Carbohydrates in food are probably the most abundant thing second to water! We could easily harvest high carbohydrate foods used just for this. Also, our body gets extra energy from taking apart these carbohydrates, so this would be a usable surplus, should it ever be done. I'm not familiar with the physics at so whether or not this could even be possible, but we can do it, so ca n we not make machines that can do it too? Just an idea... -Plasmatic Plas@Dlcwest.Com -----Original Message----- From: Psy-Kosh To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: October 18, 1998 8:28 PM Subject: Re: Most Needed Inventions > Ok, this one is odd, but i've been thinking about it for a while. The >human body takes apart carbohydrate molecules to get energy, right? right. >That means that it takes a certain amout of energy to construct those >molecules. So here is what I think would be a good idea: (It will probably >be about a decade or two before we're actually able to do this,) construct >nanobots that use ambient radiation or a once a day exposure of some EM >energy that is not harmful to humans, or a ZPE source (actually, I have an >idea obout one that would be ideally suited to nanotech) to reconstruct the >carbohydrate molecules. (Look ma, I just solved world hunger. :-). oh, that >idea for a zpe generator is to take some magnetic molecule, trap it in a >ctype of conductive cage, (a conductive version of a buckyball) connect that >to a pair of small diodes (really small) and there you go. The nice thing >about this one is that it seems to me at least that even if it did not tap >the ZPE, it would still be a negentropic generatod. ie, i think that you >would be able to put a "battery" connsisting of several million (billion?) >of these generators in an isonthermic situation, and it would convert the >heat to electricity. > >what do you think? > >-----Original Message----- >From: Richard Austin >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Date: Sunday, October 18, 1998 9:59 PM >Subject: Most Needed Inventions > > >>Most Needed Inventions >>Obviously free energy is high on the list of most need inventions to >improve the quality of life for vast numbers of people on the planet while >reducing pollution. >> >>Since there is little free energy news while folks are working out their >next energy options, I thought it might be useful to look at what other >inventions are most needed by mankind. >> >>If there is another list server that would be better for this discussion, >please direct me... >> >>Those not interested maybe could ignore the thread. >> >>Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU >>Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at >http://user.icx.net/~richarda >> >> >> > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 01:36:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA14170; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 01:29:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 01:29:21 -0700 Message-ID: <00e201bdfc03$3a8a8560$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Most Needed Inventions Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:06:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"--kd12.0.GT3.XXlAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7156 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi 'Plasmatic' and All -----Original Message----- From: Plasmatic >I have another idea of this too. Could we make a generator that uses the energy given >off when taking apart carbohydrates? Carbohydrates in food are probably the most >abundant thing second to water! We could easily harvest high carbohydrate foods used >just for this. Also, our body gets extra energy from taking apart these carbohydrates, so >this would be a usable surplus, should it ever be done. I'm not familiar with the physics at >so whether or not this could even be possible, but we can do it, so can we not make >machines that can do it too? Just an idea... It would probably be most efficient to convert the carbohydrates into alcohol via fermentation, then burn the alcohol. Also, most carbohydrates combust or explode readily given the right circumstances. The body converts carbohydrates (sugar) into usable energy via the citric acid cycle. Try a web search on 'citric acid cycle' for more information. Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 01:36:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA14183; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 01:29:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 01:29:22 -0700 Message-ID: <00e301bdfc03$3f05fb60$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: rife/bare Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:16:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"BwGlN.0.WT3.YXlAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7157 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dennis and All -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Garrett >RE: RIFE >anybody have any experience with building one of these units? >i want to get the book and try it, but i want to know some competent >advice is available when (not if, when) i need it. >thanks in advance, >Dennis (Hope we're talking about the same thing!) I made a RIFE unit using an audio amp, PC sound card and Sound Forge software. Connect the output of the PC sound card to the input of the audio amp. Connect the speaker cable from the audio amp to your electrodes. Synthesise frequencies using Sound Forge, guided by the many frequency tables that are on the web. Sound Forge can be obtained by doing a web search for 'Sound Forge' ? Or is RIFE the one with the tube ? Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 01:36:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA14252; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 01:29:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 01:29:30 -0700 Message-ID: <00e401bdfc03$4200ebe0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: [On Topic] Splitting Water Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:25:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"3IfLX.0.XU3.fXlAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7158 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All What is the current best method(s) for extracting hydrogen and oxygen from water? Efficiencies if known would be appreciated. Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 02:54:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA28208; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 02:47:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 02:47:52 -0700 Message-ID: <471994A2.5D62@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 22:39:46 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cease and desist! References: <199810182305_MC2-5D1E-9687@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5Gnf81.0.gu6.8hmAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7159 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ralph E Griffin wrote: > > Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > > >Perhaps it is time someone reposted the rules of Freenrg-L, such as what > >is and is not off-topic. I don't know about the rest of you, but some of > >us have been in contact via private email, and we are sick of this > >pointless bickering. > > > >What is on-topic: > > > > * "Overunity" > > * Electrogravity & inertia violation > > * Scalar Electromagnetism > > * Psi phenomena and Paranormal > > * Relativity violation > and yes, FTL is close enough. > Snip > > I wish our host, William Beaty would do (or at least say) something about > this problem. Perhaps he is just shaking his head and saying "It is > hopeless." Perhaps that is true, but I am not convinced that it is true. > Well Ladies and Gentlemen, the way I understand it (and of course I could stand to be corrected), the intent of this particular list is currently advertised as follows: QUOTE: Purpose: For discussion of *very* unconventional science/invention topics, including "free energy" devices, antigravity generators, radionics, paranormal/psychic phenomena, etc. Emphasis is on experimentation and hardware, not on theories. The user group tends to be unconventional hobbyists and "crazy" inventors. Unmoderated. UNQUOTE: In other words, it does not appear to be a list SPECIFICALLY restricted to the discussion of conventional electronics, scalar electromagnetics, relativity violation, or "yes, FTL is close enough", as some might consider, and clearly indicate as their preference. I certainly hope I wont be taken to task in the future by the rudeness of any of this lists self appointed moderators, if I should ever happen to inadvertently mention something that might relate to "paranormal or psychic phenomena" for example..... or anything else they might not like to discuss. And as I understand it, our very generous host, Mr William Beaty (the gentleman that you NOW seem to be appealing to), has indicated quite clearly, that this list is _"UNMODERATED"_. Much of the ".....we are sick of this pointless bickering" you refer to, is in fact the direct result of several rude and unconscionable personal attacks on the valid opinions and responses of a member of this list, as the result of expressing a contrary view on a permitted subject. A member, I might add, who then understandably felt it necessary to reply to an attack in defense of that view! As I certainly would have done also, if faced with such arrogant rudeness. I have since recently learnt that this particular list member (whose postings have been an invigorating breath of fresh air to the otherwise stale regurgitation of conventional electromagnetic theory) has now _UNSUBSCRIBED_ as a consequence. NOW BELIEVE ME, THAT REALLY, REALLY ANGERS ME! I would seriously suggest to you all Ladies and Gentlemen, that you very carefully re-consider WHO the other participants on this list might be. Many of us live in different countries, in different societies. We are from different generations, with different cultural sensibilities, and certainly with different expectations of what might be considered to be polite and socially acceptable forms of communications. I was absolutely appalled recently to read such rude and insulting phrases as, "cut the crap" bandied about in open international criticism of a particular members posting. Such behaviour may be acceptable in some countries, but in my society, you could very well be inviting a physical response if you were rude enough to use such a phrase in a personal face to face situation. I can also inform you, that the particular members loss referred to is not the only one I am aware of in recent years, and which can be attributed directly to the crass ignorance, verbal insensibility, and the mindless insistence that only conventional scientific wisdom is an acceptable topic of debate: The very antithesis of this lists stated purpose. To respect his confidence, I will not name this other person directly here. But I can tell you that his regular, witty, scientifically unconventional and highly intelligent and imaginative postings are now sorely missed by many of us. So if you want to "Cease and Desist" something, I suggest you re-examine your own motives carefully. Open your minds a little to original thought, be somewhat more tolerant of others ideas, and a little less antagonist towards those who may have a less than conventional approach to experimental scientific research. After all, isn't that what this list is SUPPOSED to be all about?? I really do wonder at times. And I have certainly experienced what can happen if you should ever mention any honest, rational, or original experimental research in electromagnetics. One sniff of the name NEWMAN for example, or his electromagnetic hypothesis, and the self appointed moderators of this list lurch into a immediate frenzy of paranoiac attack. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to inform the rest of us who the; "some of us have been in contact via private email", moderators of this list actually are. S. N. Rae -- ================================================= S. N. Rae, REA, SMNZEI, 7B Mountain View Road, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. Ph: +64 3 578 9160 mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 04:10:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA11072; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 04:08:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 04:08:33 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <471994A2.5D62@mlb.planet.gen.nz> References: <199810182305_MC2-5D1E-9687@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 01:07:12 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Cease and desist! Resent-Message-ID: <"Lw9Ts.0.ti2.msnAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7160 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stuart - > To respect his confidence, I will not name this > other person directly here. But I can tell you that > his regular, witty, scientifically unconventional > and highly intelligent and imaginative postings > are now sorely missed by many of us. I think I know who you mean and you're right, he and his messages are missed. Excellent post about having open discussions about unconventional topics. Needed to be said. I also note that while the actual messages in contention numbered perhaps half a dozen or so, the whining, complaining, and pouty "I'm quitting this list" messages continue to roll on and on for days after it ended! Makes it pretty clear what kind of attitude is really at fault in the breakdown of communications. You're right about the Newman wars too. I've *never* seen Evan lose his cool, but you're guaranteed that someone else is going to go off into some personal vicious attacks and run the communication process down to very unpleasant levels. The Newman arguments bug me too though, so I usually just lay low until they blow over. I don't know if Newman's right or wrong, or right about some things and not others, or what, but I'm pretty sure nothing like that gets resolved online. I like the idea of an "[OFF TOPIC]" in the subject line if things tend to wander, but people need to remember that the subject matter here *does* have a wide lattitude. Participating in this sort of forum requires some maturity and patience - and occasionally e-mail filters. Works for me. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 04:13:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA11600; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 04:10:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 04:10:07 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00e401bdfc03$4200ebe0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 01:08:46 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [On Topic] Splitting Water Resent-Message-ID: <"FZqyb1.0.2r2.DunAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7161 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: David - There were some messages revently on Vortex about that. Do you subscribe there? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 05:46:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA00359; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 05:44:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 05:44:32 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 05:21:45 -0700 From: "bob macelvain" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: Most Needed Inventions X-Sender-Ip: 209.12.236.153 Organization: MailCity (http://www.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"buYYB1.0.S5.lGpAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7162 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ...question... ... ...can the simple-construction, muller magnetic fly wheel (motor-generator) consistently produce 2x unity? ... ...would like to pool muller construction design (18- 22kw model) ... ...will trade 100 lbs. high-grade amorphous iron oxide core filling for 19 each 2" x 2" neos (grade 30 or higher)... ... macelvain@hotmail.com Get your FREE E-mail at http://mailcity.lycos.com Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://personal.lycos.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 08:05:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA09820; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 08:02:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 08:02:27 -0700 Message-ID: <000801bdfc3a$21403280$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: [On Topic] Splitting Water Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:58:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"3MwY71.0.KP2.2IrAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7163 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Rick and All I used to subscribe to Vortex but the constant flames, pompous attitudes and (most importantly) lack of the necessary CF equipment caused me to unsubscribe. Copies of any of the replies would by appreciated. Is anyone still working with Meyer type cells? What I wish to do is to split water electrically and be able to measure the effectiveness in real time with a PC. Any ideas on how I can do this? Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk -----Original Message----- >There were some messages recently on Vortex about that. Do you subscribe there? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 08:30:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA20320; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 08:26:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 08:26:43 -0700 Message-ID: <004c01bdfc3d$8cc57f80$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Gravitational effect on EM radiation Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:22:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Q_fs32.0.Kz4.perAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7164 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All We can verify that gravity can 'bend' light. If gravity bends light, the same should be true for other EM radiation. Does anyone know about the physics involved here? If a photon has no mass, how is it affected by gravity? Is it caused by local time distortion, attraction or whatever? Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 09:31:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20353; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:28:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:28:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003301bdfb82$d743b1a0$65277f0a@RobPolley.telusplanet.net> From: "Rob Polley" To: Subject: Re: [On Topic] Splitting Water Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:06:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"qhtCR2.0.xz4.zYsAs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7166 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi Rick and All > >I used to subscribe to Vortex but the constant flames, pompous attitudes and >(most importantly) lack of the necessary CF equipment caused me to >unsubscribe. > >Copies of any of the replies would by appreciated. >Is anyone still working with Meyer type cells? > >What I wish to do is to split water electrically and be able to measure the >effectiveness in real time with a PC. Any ideas on how I can do this? > Hi David, If cash isn't an object it's pretty easy, if you are on a tight buget you need to get rather creative. Here is an idea that could work if you have a sound card with a microphone input. Set up some sort of a balance arrangement so you can get an physical displacement as the water level changes, this could be either "weighing" the water flask or some sort of float on the surface of the water. Connect up the physical displacement to a potentiometer and use the output to control the frequency of a voltage controled oscillater, then couple that into your sound card input. There are programs available that let you use a sound card as a spectum analyser, the frequency change over time will give you your efficiency info. Hope this is useful to you, best regard Rob From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 09:27:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA07476; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:24:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:24:03 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Conversation with last message Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "J. Keith King" Subject: Re: Bruce DePalma does this work Date: Sun, 18 Oct 98 09:23:49 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LomGP2.0.jq1.ZUsAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7165 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- > ...question... > ... > ...can the simple-construction, > muller magnetic fly wheel > (motor-generator) consistently > produce 2x unity? > ... > ...would like to pool muller > construction design > (18- 22kw model) > ... > ...will trade 100 lbs. high-grade amorphous > iron oxide core filling for 19 each > 2" x 2" neos (grade 30 or higher)... > ... > macelvain@hotmail.com > > > > Get your FREE E-mail at http://mailcity.lycos.com > Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://personal.lycos.com > > Does this machine work if so where can I get blue prints to look at doe any one know anything about this orginal idea of faraday From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 09:30:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA08915; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:26:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:26:16 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:27:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810191627.JAA04352@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: [On Topic] Splitting Water Resent-Message-ID: <"Rib581.0.9B2.eWsAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7167 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi David and all, At 09:25 AM 10/20/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi All > >What is the current best method(s) for extracting hydrogen and oxygen from >water? Efficiencies if known would be appreciated. > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > I read somewhere that at relatively low electric currents, the electrolysis of water was at an higher than "normal" efficiency, as some if the input energy was thermal. Sort of like an heat pump, I guess. I will try to find the magazine article. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 09:46:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA16560; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:40:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:40:22 -0700 Message-ID: <362B6BEE.4579A717@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 00:42:23 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: "Magnetic semi-permeable membrane" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------439A809CB0A0B7882D28F3C3" Resent-Message-ID: <"AW09H3.0.b24.rjsAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7168 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------439A809CB0A0B7882D28F3C3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the picture I've included is a container(white box) with charged particles(white dots) inside. The blue area is where a magnetic field is present. The magnetic field is perpendicular to the surface of the monitor. These charged particles were all initially at the left side of the box. They all initially has a velocity (random size, random direction). They only collide with the container. When a slow-moving one moves into the field (trying to get to the other side of the box), it turns back (in an arc) to the original side (because with the same amount of charge and mass, the radius of the track of a particle in the field is proportional to its speed). Therefore, to get from one side of the box to the other requires great velocity. And so the magnetic field acts like a selective membrane, letting only the fast particles pass. This system is not perfect though, because slow particles can bounce along the walls of the box and pass thru the field, although it will be much slower, especially with a long bar of field. In my picture you can see there are already some particles on the right side. They are mostly the faster ones. Some slow ones passed thru by bouncing along the bottom side of the box. Can anybody think of anything useful of this device? Maybe even free-energy? Maxwell's demon? PS. Anybody want my simulation programs? I can send them to you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2nd Part of the E-mail ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I just thought of an application. I have included a second picture to decribe my idea. On figure 1 is a circular & flat container (I think any convex shape is fine) containing a moving charged particle. The particle, if initially put in the middle, would go in a circle, but if initially put near the rim, it bounces of the rim and go in arcs. And if we put the container in our normal atmosphere, we have created a kind of maxwell's demon -- kinetic energy of random direction into kinetic energy of certain direction. Also, if we use positive particles for the device, we cannot also put in negative particles, because they act the opposite way. I have simulated this device in my computer, but I don't know if it will work in real life. 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ny48/nnvykXD2g5/ffbyNBG/qQ2zvXxzr0Ap3kpvq7BqOdC8ZLhCcC799loOQniEics/sdja cBgFtbFLNjfCK7BEE8/564cU47nwRBdffEeze2QkqA8aYcQxR5luvGPFdGzUMUghhySySCOP RDJJJZdkskknn4QySimnpLJKK6/EMkstt+SySy+/BDNMMccks0wzz0QzTTXXZLNNN9+EM06J IgAAOw== --------------439A809CB0A0B7882D28F3C3-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 10:09:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA30203; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:06:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:06:21 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <004c01bdfc3d$8cc57f80$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 07:04:59 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Gravitational effect on EM radiation Resent-Message-ID: <"yg8Fj3.0.rN7.D6tAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7169 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: David - > Is it caused by local time distortion,[...] Yes. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 10:36:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA11865; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:32:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:32:43 -0700 Message-ID: <362B6EF2.ADB9EC0C@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 00:55:14 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravitational effect on EM radiation References: <004c01bdfc3d$8cc57f80$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jY54U3.0.1v2.wUtAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7170 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I think a rest photon does not have mass, but a moving photon does. Or maybe a low frequency photon has less mass than a higher frequency photon (because the latter has more energy). Does light/photon always travel at light speed? Can a non-moving photon exist? Maybe a zero frequency photon is a non-moving one. I once read that it is widely accepted that mass is energy, only with different units. It seems that an object carrying more energy/mass is harder to accelerate. By the way, aren't all EM radiations "light"? When you say "light", do you only mean the part of EM radiation visible to the human eye? David Callaghan wrote: > > Hi All > > We can verify that gravity can 'bend' light. If gravity bends light, the > same should be true for other EM radiation. > > Does anyone know about the physics involved here? If a photon has no mass, > how is it affected by gravity? Is it caused by local time distortion, > attraction or whatever? > > Best regards > > David Callaghan > DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 11:09:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA00569; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:04:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:04:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199810191805.OAA002.34@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> From: Charlie Hodgson Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:01:14 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravitational effect on EM radiation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.50 b48 (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"JOU431.0.d8.iytAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7171 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: David Callaghan wrote: > > Does anyone know about the physics involved here? If a photon has no mass, > how is it affected by gravity? Is it caused by local time distortion, > attraction or whatever? >From the experiments that showed that light bends arounds the sun (determined from being able to see a star occluded by the Sun during an eclipe) the warpage of space-time is said to be the culprit. The gravity of the Sun, per se, does not bend the light. The Sun distorts space and the light flows around it. -Charlie- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 11:35:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA17411; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:30:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:30:59 -0700 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <004d01bdfb1f$d361c580$6b298e8b@plassy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:36:39 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: Most Needed Inventions Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id LAA17354 Resent-Message-ID: <"fpiFj.0.sF4.ZLuAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7172 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alcohol fuels is one way to do this using bacteria. Cellulose fuels dried and burned directly is another. Part of the problem is that with most of our engines, we need specialized fuels. An exception is the Stirling engine. There may be other external combustion engines which would work too. Perhaps a fuel cell that could "eat" carohydrates. I am working on a low pressure 1-2 hp Stirling engine that could be used to power a home (with modest requirements). It's on the drawing board but is still weeks or even months away from actual prototyping. >I have another idea of this too. Could we make a generator that uses the energy given off when taking apart carbohydrates? Carbohydrates in food are probably the most abundant thing second to water! We could easily harvest high carbohydrate foods used just for this. Also, our body gets extra energy from taking apart these carbohydrates, so this would be a usable surplus, should it ever be done. I'm not familiar with the physics at so whether or not this could even be possible, but we can do it, so c an we not make machines that can do it too? Just an idea... > >-Plasmatic >Plas@Dlcwest.Com >-----Original Message----- >From: Psy-Kosh >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Date: October 18, 1998 8:28 PM >Subject: Re: Most Needed Inventions > Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 11:52:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA25391; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:45:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:45:41 -0700 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00e301bdfc03$3f05fb60$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:43:44 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: rife/bare Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id LAA25255 Resent-Message-ID: <"UtgZ73.0.8C6.JZuAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7173 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi Dennis and All > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dennis Garrett > >>RE: RIFE >>anybody have any experience with building one of these units? >>i want to get the book and try it, but i want to know some competent >>advice is available when (not if, when) i need it. >>thanks in advance, >>Dennis > > >(Hope we're talking about the same thing!) >I made a RIFE unit using an audio amp, PC sound card and Sound Forge >software. >Connect the output of the PC sound card to the input of the audio amp. >Connect the speaker cable from the audio amp to your electrodes. Synthesise >frequencies using Sound Forge, guided by the many frequency tables that are >on the web. > >Sound Forge can be obtained by doing a web search for 'Sound Forge' > >? Or is RIFE the one with the tube ? > >Best regards > >David Callaghan The Rife one is with the tube. I have seen the Bare unit destroy protozoa right before my eye (using his dark field microscope). Apparently frequencies under about 20 Hz destroys most pathogens whereas the Rife frequencies are resonant to particular organ isms. Hulda Clark in her book, The Cure for All Diseases gives specific frequencies for various pathogens. Probably a list is on the net somewhere. Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 12:13:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA03438; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:10:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:10:02 -0700 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhQlnBq5VJgVtz5Vr3UfVEp8VmOH7gIUNYeUlTYTb0BFVrc/0F3CE9edjxs= From: dennisgarrett@webtv.net (Dennis Garrett) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:11:28 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: rife/bare Message-ID: <23529-362B8EE0-7483@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"37vzD2.0.Xr.9wuAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7174 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: thanks dave. more as it develops. dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 12:22:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA25911; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:17:05 -0700 (PDT) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhRnj+gvVmvQQQ/wQ4x2li0R0SHKOAIVAI2ZGNoIFuaZTPUM0VInRAd767tv From: dennisgarrett@webtv.net (Dennis Garrett) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:13:58 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: rife/bare Message-ID: <23527-362B8F76-12359@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"kCIjL.0.kK6.l0vAs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7175 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: thanks to you, too. like i told the other person, more as things develop. Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 13:07:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA03425; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:02:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:02:49 -0700 Message-ID: <362BB6B4.453E@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:01:24 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [off topic]Cease and desist! References: <199810182305_MC2-5D1E-9687@compuserve.com> <471994A2.5D62@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ymkay1.0.Pr.ehvAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7176 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stuart Rae wrote: I would suggest that if you intend to flame me, you do it offline. By flaming me online, you have actually violated one of the rules of the list you claim to attempt to uphold. Better yet, don't even email me privately. I have an open mind, but I will not attempt to overthrow things we already know to be true. If you can experimentally demonstrate that this persons far out claims have any scientific basis in reality, perform an experiment to test it. There is an old saying: put up, or shut up. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" --Carl Sagan Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 14:07:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA29433; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:03:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:03:25 -0700 From: UNIR2B1@aol.com Message-ID: <732783cf.362ba771@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:56:17 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [On Topic] Splitting Water Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"F1TRl2.0.oB7.SawAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7177 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-10-19 04:37:54 EDT, you write: > >Hi All > >What is the current best method(s) for extracting hydrogen and oxygen from >water? Efficiencies if known would be appreciated. > > Did you get a satisfactory answer to this? Thanks. --Russ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 14:19:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA04951; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:14:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:14:46 -0700 From: UNIR2B1@aol.com Message-ID: <121602c9.362ba941@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 17:04:01 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [On Topic] Splitting Water Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"XBmvp.0.5D1.6lwAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7178 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-10-19 04:37:54 EDT, you write: > >Hi All > >What is the current best method(s) for extracting hydrogen and oxygen from >water? Efficiencies if known would be appreciated. > > An interesting question: have you heard of an invention from earlier this century called the Sterling engine (promulgated by Dennis Lee), which produces rotary power from thermal differential alone? An H flame would perhaps produce *more* than enough torque to electrolyze drive an alternator for electrolyzing water. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 14:24:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA08039; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:19:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:19:30 -0700 Message-ID: <362BB982.57A32598@harti.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:13:22 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Greg Watson does not reply nor ship any =?iso-8859-1?Q?refunds=2E=2E=2EDon=B4t?= buy a SMOT , =?iso-8859-1?Q?don=B4t?= send money in advance ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ghXFX.0.Fz1.UpwAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7179 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I contacted by phone last week Mr. Greg Watson and wanted to know, what is happening with his SMOT and the requested refund. I reached him on the phone, but he was very short answering and busy and only told me to send email to his new email account at: gowatson@hotmail.com He wanted to answer me by email. I did send him twice email to this address, but until now he did not reply. He stated, that he had terminated his old account. But I wonder, why his old WEB pages are still online at: http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson So basic conclusion is: He DOES NOT WANT TO ANSWER. It seems he is running a scam with his SMOT sales... I don´t know, if really more than the 26 persons listed on his site have already sent money...but with this email I ask people, not to send anymore any money to him in advance. If anybody who has sent money in advance wants to contact him, please call him directly in Australia at: Greg Watson: ++61 8 8270 27372 mobile phone: ++61418833461 and ask for a refund ! Please let me know, what he will tell to you... Thanks ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 14:36:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA14759; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:31:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:31:26 -0700 Message-ID: <001201bdfba8$122da260$66298e8b@plassy> From: "Plasmatic" To: Subject: Re: Most Needed Inventions Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:33:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA14500 Resent-Message-ID: <"n_Qdc.0.Rc3.j-wAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7180 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well, I was thinking more along the idea of the fuel cell than drying and burning, but how does the body breakdown carbohydrates, and what into? This is a key thing for it's design that I'm not really sure of. If I knew this, I could probably give you a way to do it :) -Plasmatic Plas@Dlcwest.Com Inventor Extrordinare! (Yeah right...) -----Original Message----- From: Richard Austin To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: October 19, 1998 12:37 PM Subject: Re: Most Needed Inventions >Alcohol fuels is one way to do this using bacteria. Cellulose fuels dried and burned directly is another. > >Part of the problem is that with most of our engines, we need specialized fuels. An exception is the Stirling engine. There may be other external combustion engines which would work too. Perhaps a fuel cell that could "eat" carohydrates. > >I am working on a low pressure 1-2 hp Stirling engine that could be used to power a home (with modest requirements). It's on the drawing board but is still weeks or even months away from actual prototyping. > >>I have another idea of this too. Could we make a generator that uses the energy given off when taking apart carbohydrates? Carbohydrates in food are probably the most abundant thing second to water! We could easily harvest high carbohydrate foods use d just for this. Also, our body gets extra energy from taking apart these carbohydrates, so this would be a usable surplus, should it ever be done. I'm not familiar with the physics at so whether or not this could even be possible, but we can do it, so can we not make machines that can do it too? Just an idea... >> >>-Plasmatic >>Plas@Dlcwest.Com >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Psy-Kosh >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Date: October 18, 1998 8:28 PM >>Subject: Re: Most Needed Inventions >> > > >Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU >Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 14:39:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA17020; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:34:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:34:48 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981015181556.007cc100@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:15:56 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Free energy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"v8hM.0.s94.t1xAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7181 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Free energy, as defined is a system of extracting energy form an abundant source of natural energy in the universe in some way that it can be captured, stored and used by man. Other issues, would be the nature of the energy be non polluting and infinitely renewable. Hydrogen and Hydroxy technologies offer these exact parameters of operation. I will however seek that you disregard issues of over unity, as this is not of what I speak. The difficulty in the expectance of water fuel technologies is that, they are outside of most peoples frame of experience. The other thing that I think people stumble over is that the knowledge of physics to assemble and use this type of system has been around more than 150 years. Let me try to generally put together the components of this type of system of "FREE OF COST" energy system. 1). Nature has been using this system of energy exchange forever. Plant life separates water into charged elemental bonding of hydrogen to carbon, thus releasing charged oxygen into the atmosphere, through the effect sun light on Chloroplasts. The resultant Carbohydrate, material is passed through the food chain to support all life. In the case of Hydrocarbons, the anaerobic decay (Oxygen poor) of biologic materials results in what we recognize as fossil fuels. The fact that we walk and breathe was proof enough for me to investigate this as a source of energy. 2) Hydrogen and oxygen are elements that, allow for the storage of energy. All other elements are superfluous to this energy storage system. 3) The combustion of these two elements results in the release of the stored energy, and result in the only product or by products being energy and water. Water being the original compound of production. No elements or materials are destroyed in the process, thus it is infinitely renewable and there is no waste. 4) An electrolyte solution of water can easily be broken down into its' constituent materials Hydrogen and Oxygen by the use of low voltage DC current. Approximately, 1.57 volts per charged plate surface area. 5) Photo-voltaic, (Solar cells) have a natural voltage threshold of 2.4 V. DC. This production is more than sufficient to sustain the electrolytic separation of water. Commercial arrays of PV cells are usually designed and connected to sustain higher voltages, needed by loads of conventional demand; i.e. battery charging, lighting etc. A single 6" solar cell is capable of producing over 1/2 amp current at the delivery potential of 2.4 V. Do not overlook these issues, as a 4' by 8' array is capable of producing many hundreds of amps of electricity, at the delivery voltage of nearly double the demand of the electrolytic process. 6) Solar power, through photo voltaic is at best about 30% efficient, in that of the total amount of energy that hits the energy array only 30% is recovered. Now don't get lost here that still means that the 30% that is recovered, is still 100% FREE OF COST. The true drawback is in the fact that solar potential is intermittent. Even in Phoenix, Arizona, the sun goes down. 7) Both separated Hydrogen and Oxygen, and in the case of Hydroxy (Combined Hydrogen and Oxygen), the stored gasses can be reconverted to electrical power through the use of fuel cell technology. In the case of separated gases, the fuel cell is somewhat complicated, in that specific pressures and flow of the gasses must be maintained. In the case of Hydroxy, all that you need are two plates in close proximity, immersed in the common gas. By the way, this technology goes back to the 1840s. 8) The storability of these two types of hydrogen/oxygen systems differ is that Hydroxy remains combustible, where as Separated Hydrogen and oxygen are inert, but both storable none the less. 9) The use of separated Hydrogen is infinitely superior to the use of natural gas, in domestic applications in that it is non toxic, in fact it has been tested and used in deep submergence diving as a substitute for nitrogen or helium as a breathing medium. Secondly, it is nearly impossible to obtain ambient concentrations of the gas in a dwelling space and it just seeks out any small crack and dissipates. 10) The combustion of Hydroxy is totally pure, resulting in only water. In the case of Hydrogen and atmospheric oxygen, the only byproduct is short lived NO, Nitrous-oxide. Nos', effects on the body is to increase blood flow through Vessel dilatation. If there were to be a malfunction of a flew pipe, the worst effect would be a sustained erection in males and hyper sensitivity of female elective tissues. There are no carbon bonds, to form the deadly combination of Carbon-dioxide gas. Now lets look at efficiencies. Solar cell 30% but 100% FREE of cost. Electrolytic conversion of water, 95% Fuel Cell conversion to electrical potential, Separated gasses H&O 80% efficient, Hydroxy 92%. Total regenerative loop efficiencies of 85% have been done in the lab. It is not hard to envision 80% as piratical in domestic applications. I have done it. It is just then a mater of coupling existing (Off the shelf) technologies to obtain energy independence. Renewable, storable, nonpolluting, FREE of cost, energy. All the best TR Knudtson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 16:07:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA00593; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:05:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:05:20 -0700 Message-ID: <362BD2C8.98525441@harti.com> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 01:01:12 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Finally Greg Watson responded...[Fwd: What is the latest news ? SMOT KIT status ?] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cgw6M3.0._8.kMyAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7182 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > > >Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 13:58:10 +0100 > >From: Stefan Hartmann > >Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de > >To: gowatson@hotmail.com > >Subject: What is the latest news ? SMOT KIT status ? > > > > > >Hi Greg, > > > >long time no hear from you... > > > >So what is the latest news on your SMOT kits > >or refunds ? > > > >Please let me know... > > > >P.S: If you changed the ISP, did you get my recent > >emails about the Nikolai Zaev article ?? > > > >Very interesting regarding also to your DNMEC work...! > > > >Regards, Stefan. > > Hi Stefan, > > Sorry I could not talk when you called. I had visitors. > > Did you get my bank cheque? No I did not get any bank cheque, nor any other refund ! > > I currently only have net access from public internet terminals. > > The DMEC deal is moving along, without me. > > The SMOT/RMOG/RMOD effect can be explained if you think about the action > of a single domain moving through a SMOT. Just like the Gary device (to > which it is related), it can't produce much power. I can't say more > now. > > I will check back here every couple of days. > > My Best Regards, > Greg > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 16:10:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA01658; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:07:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:07:45 -0700 From: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca Message-Id: <199810192308.TAA21758@juliet.its.uwo.ca> X-Sender: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:59:27 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free energy In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981015181556.007cc100@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"UQJdZ2.0.mP.0PyAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7183 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: [snip] >Now lets look at efficiencies. > >Solar cell 30% but 100% FREE of cost. > >Electrolytic conversion of water, 95% > >Fuel Cell conversion to electrical potential, Separated gasses H&O 80% >efficient, Hydroxy 92%. > >Total regenerative loop efficiencies of 85% have been done in the lab. It >is not hard to envision 80% as piratical in domestic applications. I have >done it. This all seems wonderful but what we need are some practical systems. If you have done it - can you pls provide details of your system? Assume you are still doing it? If not why not? Thx Chris Gupta > >It is just then a mater of coupling existing (Off the shelf) technologies >to obtain energy independence. > >Renewable, storable, nonpolluting, FREE of cost, energy. > >All the best > >TR Knudtson > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 16:45:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA17590; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:42:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:42:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199810192343.TAA18897@express.globetrotter.net> From: "Patrick Tremblay" To: Subject: COLD FUSION Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 19:26:08 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BvNb51.0.WI4.bvyAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7184 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, If FREE ENERGY/OU never makes it, if bedini, greg watson, hubbard and all those OU devices turn out to be a scam at least we can remain confident about one thing: COLD FUSION. If overunity electrical and mechanical devices turn out to be all wrong mesurements and "Lab Work So bad, it's not even wrong" as Don Lancaster from "Electronics Now" would say. Well at least we know by conventional physics that COLD FUSION will solve the world's energy crisis, it will happen, sooner or later we will have a source of practically unlimited energy. First cold fusion will certainly serve as a means to get rid of radioactive waste but the next step will certainly be direct conversion of excess heat into electricity. > If Free Energy isn't currently close enough, then we atleast have two points we must be able to work towards: Less Pollution - Unlimited Resource. These are obviously two things provided by Free Energy, but until we can reach that, we need something in the mean time. Of course, the first question we have to ask is: What causes all the pollution today and what can be done to reverse it? Now we all have something to brain storm on, to find something for a new invention. Anyone have some answers to this question? > > -Plasmatic > Plas@Dlcwest.Com > Back from Lurking... > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Austin > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Date: October 18, 1998 7:58 PM > Subject: Most Needed Inventions > > > >Most Needed Inventions > >Obviously free energy is high on the list of most need inventions to improve the quality of life for vast numbers of people on the planet while reducing pollution. > > > >Since there is little free energy news while folks are working out their next energy options, I thought it might be useful to look at what other inventions are most needed by mankind. > > > >If there is another list server that would be better for this discussion, please direct me... > > > >Those not interested maybe could ignore the thread. > > > >Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU > >Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 17:31:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA03966; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 17:23:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 17:23:26 -0700 Message-ID: <003d01bdfbc0$986217e0$19e4afce@et-s> From: "Eric Tonkins" To: Subject: Re: Free energy Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 17:23:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"l4gBx2.0.rz.zVzAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7185 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: TR Knudtson, you wrote: ....................... Hydrogen and Hydroxy technologies offer these exact parameters of operation. I will however seek that you disregard issues of over unity, as this is not of what I speak ... Let me try to generally put together the components of this type of system of "FREE OF COST" energy system ... Total regenerative loop efficiencies of 85% have been done in the lab. It is not hard to envision 80% as piratical in domestic applications. I have done it. It is just then a mater of coupling existing (Off the shelf) technologies to obtain energy independence. ........................ Sounds good TR ! Can you supply us with drawings, blueprints and/or schematics? Also, do you have any photos or video? Thanks. Till Later, Eric Favorite Quote: " Wonderful times only happen to you if you show up. Unless you show up, you'll never have one ! " Eric Tonkins EMail: vegan@sprynet.com Internet: http://my.name.is/free$100drawing4you Voice / Fax: (702) 358-7681 Home Office: 634 Oakwood Dr. # 3, Sparks, NV 89431 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 17:52:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA15113; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 17:49:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 17:49:42 -0700 Message-ID: <362BEB49.A5D7A425@harti.com> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 02:45:45 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: New: Nonlinear capacitor converter Online ! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ewR7f1.0.-h3.buzAs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7186 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I just compiled all the infos I received from a Russian friend about the nonlinear capacitor converter ! Very interesting device ! It converts low temperature environmental heat into electricity ! Have a look at: http://www.overunity.com/zaev Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 18:32:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA02637; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:30:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:30:30 -0700 From: UNIR2B1@aol.com Message-ID: <894de002.362be791@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:29:53 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Free energy Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"7u3C6.0.3f.rU-As"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7187 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-10-19 17:40:31 EDT, you write: > >Total regenerative loop efficiencies of 85% have been done in the lab. It >is not hard to envision 80% as piratical in domestic applications. I have >done it. Damn! you make sense! Notwithstanding idealistic aspirations about ZPE, overunity, perpetual motion, etc., I, for one, would be grateful for any specifics you could povide or reference--esp. since you've "done it"--regarding no-moving-parts, home-made *fuel cells*! Aside from this method of harvesting electricity from hydroxy, I'm interested in an early-20th century device, demonstrated by Dennis Lee, known (or little- known) as a STERLING ENGINE, which converts thermal differential directly into rotary power, where this end is desired. (A hydrogen flame would provide the heat, and the water from which it is hydrolized would provide the cooling.) Thanks very much--we've got a micro-community here who awaits info such as you can provide, and who would be materially indebted to you for any such help. --Russ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 19:22:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA21221; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 19:18:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 19:18:57 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981015230006.00897da0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 23:00:06 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free energy In-Reply-To: <003d01bdfbc0$986217e0$19e4afce@et-s> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"nbZpO1.0.QB5.GC_As"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7188 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Chris,Eric and all. Yes I can tell you where to get these things. For information on solar arrays, try Simens Solar, on the net. They even have a design tutorial on there web site. As far as videos of Hydroxy technologies see George Wiseman, Eagle Research, also on the net. George is new to this work but has made the best progress, ask him for a copy of the anniversary video, celebrating his first year in Hydroxy and my 20th. In this video we cover and demonstrate most the anomalies and a few of the unique applications of Hydroxy. I also have provided George with tapes that go back to the 70s and the work of myself and Yull Brown. He has many hours of our tapes. If he will not send you these tapes please let me know. I have the originals. As far as the Knudtson Hydroxy fuel cell, you can make one easily enough, just coil two conductive plates in 1/8" proximity and place them in a insulated container, with inlet ports for Hydroxy gas, and an outlet for the water. Diode the output of the plates and place a load to the electrodes. It is so simple it stinks. With regard to conventional fuel cell technology, contact Ballard of BC, Canada. They design a system that uses conventional compressed air and compressed hydrogen to run their busses. These busses are sold and operating in many major cities. There are also many sites that offer design criteria for fuel cell technologies. As far as design criterion of electrolytic cells, I work with many companies and individuals, If you would want to enter into research along these lines, I will be more than happy to help you design a cell specific to your need. I will insist that we do it out side this format of a discussion group. I feel to tie up this group with designs of any specific technology is contrary the context of a general energy discussion group. Most of this including Browns Gas cells is now public domain. In addition please review the patents of DR Willam Rhodes, 1966-67, his system is very simple to build, and also produces true Hydroxy gas. As far as research into the uses of Hydrogen as a fuel, the General Motors Corporation, ran several Corvaires all over the United States, in 1963, under a special grant from the Kennedy administration. After Jacks' death in November of that year all work in this area was abandoned, but you may find something in the archives. The advance that they were most famous for, is the implementation of metal hydride storage for pure hydrogen, that made the use of hydrogen fuel for automobiles not only feasible, but safe. Now, on topic. What do you think of Hydro/oxy systems? Are you entering to this area of research? All the best TR Knudtson At 05:23 PM 10/19/98 -0700, you wrote: >TR Knudtson, > >you wrote: >....................... >Hydrogen and Hydroxy technologies offer these exact parameters of operation. >I will however seek that you disregard issues of over unity, as this is not >of what I speak ... Let me try to generally put together the components of >this type of system of "FREE OF COST" energy system ... Total regenerative >loop efficiencies of 85% have been done in the lab. It is not hard to >envision 80% as piratical in domestic applications. I have done it. It is >just then a mater of coupling existing (Off the shelf) technologies to >obtain energy independence. >........................ > >Sounds good TR ! Can you supply us with drawings, blueprints and/or >schematics? Also, do you have any photos or video? > >Thanks. > >Till Later, Eric > >Favorite Quote: >" Wonderful times only happen to you if you show up. > Unless you show up, you'll never have one ! " > >Eric Tonkins >EMail: vegan@sprynet.com >Internet: http://my.name.is/free$100drawing4you >Voice / Fax: (702) 358-7681 >Home Office: 634 Oakwood Dr. # 3, Sparks, NV 89431 > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 19:27:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA24045; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 19:25:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 19:25:09 -0700 Message-ID: <362BF4A4.5B195787@dcache.net> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:25:40 -0400 From: James J Jiamachello X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free energy References: <894de002.362be791@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_B_492.0.St5.5I_As"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7189 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: UNIR2B1@aol.com wrote: snip >...awaits info such as you > can provide, and who would be materially indebted to you for any such >help. > > --Russ There are various plans and information on Stirling engines available from Lindsay Publications, Inc., http://www.lindsaybks.com Happy hunting Jim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 19:50:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA02613; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 19:47:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 19:47:40 -0700 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981015181556.007cc100@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:40:29 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: Free energy Resent-Message-ID: <"ixowJ1.0.fe.Ad_As"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7190 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I like your hydrogen scenario, but what scares me is the explosion potential. How has that been solved? Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 20:56:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA32731; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 20:53:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 20:53:41 -0700 Message-ID: <018501bdfbdd$14a454a0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Cease and desist! Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:00:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"eQuVL1.0.x-7.4b0Bs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7191 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If his technology was stolen by the trolling motor folks, why has no one went out and bought one of these and tested for unusual effects? >Stuart - > > > To respect his confidence, I will not name this > > other person directly here. But I can tell you that > > his regular, witty, scientifically unconventional > > and highly intelligent and imaginative postings > > are now sorely missed by many of us. > >I think I know who you mean and you're right, he and his messages are missed. > >Excellent post about having open discussions about unconventional topics. >Needed to be said. I also note that while the actual messages in contention >numbered perhaps half a dozen or so, the whining, complaining, and pouty >"I'm quitting this list" messages continue to roll on and on for days after >it ended! Makes it pretty clear what kind of attitude is really at fault in >the breakdown of communications. > >You're right about the Newman wars too. I've *never* seen Evan lose his >cool, but you're guaranteed that someone else is going to go off into some >personal vicious attacks and run the communication process down to very >unpleasant levels. The Newman arguments bug me too though, so I usually >just lay low until they blow over. I don't know if Newman's right or wrong, >or right about some things and not others, or what, but I'm pretty sure >nothing like that gets resolved online. > >I like the idea of an "[OFF TOPIC]" in the subject line if things tend to >wander, but people need to remember that the subject matter here *does* >have a wide lattitude. Participating in this sort of forum requires some >maturity and patience - and occasionally e-mail filters. Works for me. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 21:29:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA13232; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:26:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:26:36 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981016010746.0088d420@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:07:46 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free energy In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19981015181556.007cc100@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"VYXe32.0.aE3.x31Bs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7192 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:40 PM 10/19/98 -0500, you wrote: >I like your hydrogen scenario, but what scares me is the explosion potential. How has that been solved? With regard to the explosive nature of Hydroxy. All combustible materials are considered explosive, it is only a mater of containment. With regard to safe use and storage Hydroxy gas, containment is also the issue. The quantities of storage subject to any possible flashback potential, should be in containment of sufficient strength, this is what you might regard as the infrastructure of such a system. It is a simple mater of isolating storage containment's both in volume and strength characteristics, that a total flash back of the system would not violate any portion of the total containment system. In the case of liquid hydrogen, when you see a hydrogen truck passing you on the road, notice that it is comprised of several long, smaller diameter cylenders, not one large tank. This is done for pressure considerations. A similar system of many, smaller diameter cylinders is what I would suggest. Their strength would then be rated as to the total volume of gas and maximum pressure of storage, to offer total containment of an unwanted flashback. Given that as a worst case scenario. I would also seek redundancy of safety precessions ahead of this total flash back containment. I do not advocate the use of Hydroxy gas for domestic applications, "inside the home", but do feel that sealed systems that would be regularly inspected, can be provided direct electrical conversion for lighting and small appliance use. Once again, outside the home, and keep in mind, this would be a sealed system, electricity in electricity out. The containment once installed, would never be opened. This is only posible because hydroxy is a compleatly regenerative process. Pure hydrogen on the other hand, poses no such problems in that it is insert, outside the presence of Oxygen. Divided and manifold isolated, systems of hydrogen and oxygen electrolyzers have been around for more than a hundred years. The gas is produced at the chemical level, a result of ionization. At the positive plate you get 99.999% pure oxygen and at the negative plate you get 99.999% pure hydrogen. Although the electrolytic process is unaffected by pressure, I still advocate for post-production, compression and pressurization of storage gas. I also would elect, a totally safe process of hydrogen storage, known as metal hydride suspension. This pellet like containment absorbs up to 900 times its mass in hydrogen, in the case of palladium. A violation of the storage containment would then only result in a slow release of hydrogen, not a complete evacuation of the system. Also keep in mind that the byproduct of production is pure oxygen, to then be vented to the atmosphere. All the best TR Knudtson > >Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU >Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 22:11:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA25056; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:10:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:10:39 -0700 Message-ID: <02ff01bdfbe7$db175b00$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Free energy Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 01:04:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"BEz1q3.0.Q76.Fj1Bs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7193 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >10) The combustion of Hydroxy is totally pure, resulting in only water. In >the case of Hydrogen and atmospheric oxygen, the only byproduct is short >lived NO, Nitrous-oxide. Nos', effects on the body is to increase blood >flow through Vessel dilatation. If there were to be a malfunction of a >flew pipe, the worst effect would be a sustained erection in males and >hyper sensitivity of female elective tissues. There are no carbon bonds, to You mean NOS can replace viagra? What are the effect of continued NOS exposire over a long time? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 22:12:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA25081; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:10:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:10:42 -0700 Message-ID: <030101bdfbe7$dc889e40$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: [On Topic] Splitting Water Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 01:08:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"FO8o5.0.j76.Hj1Bs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7194 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>What is the current best method(s) for extracting hydrogen and oxygen from >>water? Efficiencies if known would be appreciated. >> >> > >An interesting question: have you heard of an invention from earlier this >century called the Sterling engine (promulgated by Dennis Lee), which produces >rotary power from thermal differential alone? How could we connect this engine to the vortex flow of air that produces two streams, one being hotter and the other cooler? Do you have any links? An H flame would perhaps >produce *more* than enough torque to electrolyze drive an alternator for >electrolyzing water. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 22:43:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA05446; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:42:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:42:25 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981016022341.00795570@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 02:23:41 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free energy In-Reply-To: <02ff01bdfbe7$db175b00$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qLRgO.0._K1.1B2Bs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7195 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:04 AM 10/20/98 -0400, you wrote: >>10) The combustion of Hydroxy is totally pure, resulting in only water. In >>the case of Hydrogen and atmospheric oxygen, the only byproduct is short >>lived NO, Nitrous-oxide. Nos', effects on the body is to increase blood >>flow through Vessel dilatation. If there were to be a malfunction of a >>flew pipe, the worst effect would be a sustained erection in males and >>hyper sensitivity of female elective tissues. There are no carbon bonds, to > > >You mean NOS can replace viagra? What are the effect of continued NOS >exposire over a long time? Well in my case 4 sons and a very tired old man. TR Knudtson > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 19 22:54:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA11600; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:53:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:53:04 -0700 Message-ID: <03ec01bdfbed$c731ea00$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Free energy Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 01:52:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"weUvK.0.8r2._K2Bs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7196 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HAHA! >At 01:04 AM 10/20/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>10) The combustion of Hydroxy is totally pure, resulting in only water. In >>>the case of Hydrogen and atmospheric oxygen, the only byproduct is short >>>lived NO, Nitrous-oxide. Nos', effects on the body is to increase blood >>>flow through Vessel dilatation. If there were to be a malfunction of a >>>flew pipe, the worst effect would be a sustained erection in males and >>>hyper sensitivity of female elective tissues. There are no carbon bonds, to >> >> >>You mean NOS can replace viagra? What are the effect of continued NOS >>exposire over a long time? > >Well in my case 4 sons and a very tired old man. > >TR Knudtson >> >> >> >> > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 20 00:15:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA00255; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 00:13:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 00:13:42 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <347b5156.362c381e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 03:13:34 EDT To: leoguitar@vossnet.de, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, harti@harti.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: New: Nonlinear capacitor converter Online ! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 129 Resent-Message-ID: <"3xYdS.0.v3.bW3Bs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7197 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 20/10/98 02:52:43, harti@harti.com wrote : > > I just compiled all the infos I received > from a Russian friend about the nonlinear capacitor > converter ! > > Very interesting device ! > I agree with Stefan, THIS IS A VERY INTERESTING DEVICE !! Thanks to Nicola Zaev and Sergei Godin for sharing the knowledge, I appreciate very much their will to share the scientific knowledge around the world. I have also updated my web site with the Nicola Zaev discovery at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/nzaevncp.htm Overunity yours, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 20 01:12:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA13774; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 01:11:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 01:11:02 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981020161503.00a6ae50@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:15:03 +0800 To: From: John Winterflood Subject: Ball Lighting article in New Scientist Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Eyt8w3.0.3N3.MM4Bs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7198 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Interesting ball lightning observation and yet another theory :- http://www.newscientist.com/ns/980926/nlightning.html with some comments :- http://www.newscientist.com/ns/981017/letters5.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 20 02:12:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA24327; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 02:11:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 02:11:12 -0700 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981016010746.0088d420@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19981015181556.007cc100@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 05:14:40 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: Free energy Resent-Message-ID: <"Uo_nW.0._x5.mE5Bs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7199 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Then what you suggest for storage could be a coiled plastic pipe, buried outside a home with connections to a small energy unit also outside, perhaps also buried for safety? Wires in, wires out. What volume of storage would carry a modest home for a few days of cloud cover? What size of photovoltaic array would be needed to charge the system? How would you pressurized the storage? At what pressure? What voltage & amperage is provided by a fuel cell? I presume it is D.C., Is there a low cost way to convert to A.C. house current? What would such a system cost for the do it yourselfer? Lots of practical type questions need to be addressed for creating such a system, but I like the idea of an alternative energy storage to batteries which are toxic, expensive, and wear out. Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 20 02:25:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA27821; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 02:24:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 02:24:51 -0700 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <347b5156.362c381e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 05:30:33 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: New: Nonlinear capacitor converter Online ! Resent-Message-ID: <"Yk241.0.ao6.ZR5Bs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7200 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >On 20/10/98 02:52:43, harti@harti.com wrote : > >> >> I just compiled all the infos I received >> from a Russian friend about the nonlinear capacitor >> converter ! >> >> Very interesting device ! >> > >I agree with Stefan, THIS IS A VERY INTERESTING DEVICE !! > >Thanks to Nicola Zaev and Sergei Godin for sharing the knowledge, I appreciate >very much their will to share the scientific knowledge around the world. > >I have also updated my web site with the Nicola Zaev discovery at : > >http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/nzaevncp.htm > > >Overunity yours, > >Jean-Louis Naudin It seems like a simple semiconductor switch would be far easier, especially at such low frequencies. Why a physical commutator??? >From the web page I could not understand the design of the variable capacitor. Also, the English translation needs some work. I couldn't follow it in places. Do you understand enough of this to build a solid state prototype? Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 20 02:51:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA00251; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 02:48:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 02:48:57 -0700 Message-ID: <008801bdfcd7$888aae00$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Most Needed Inventions Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:41:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"74c87.0.q3.9o5Bs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7201 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi 'Plasmatic' and All Try searching for "Citric Acid Cycle" on the web. It will tell you all you need. Best regards David Callaghan -----Original Message----- From: Plasmatic >Well, I was thinking more along the idea of the fuel cell than drying and burning, but how does the body breakdown carbohydrates, and what into? This is a key thing for it's design that I'm not really sure of. If I knew this, I could probably give you a way to do it :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 20 06:17:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA09861; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 06:14:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 06:14:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199810201316.JAA003.71@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> From: Charlie Hodgson Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:01:14 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravitational effect on EM radiation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.50 b48 (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"vd5RD3.0.rP2.Ap8Bs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7202 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: David Callaghan wrote: > > Does anyone know about the physics involved here? If a photon has no mass, > how is it affected by gravity? Is it caused by local time distortion, > attraction or whatever? >From the experiments that showed that light bends arounds the sun (determined from being able to see a star occluded by the Sun during an eclipe) the warpage of space-time is said to be the culprit. The gravity of the Sun, per se, does not bend the light. The Sun distorts space and the light flows around it. -Charlie- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 20 06:21:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA12429; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 06:19:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 06:19:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199810201320.JAA003.74@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> From: Charlie Hodgson Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:16:53 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Patents from 1949 online? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.50 b48 (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"Vjbnq1.0.723.jt8Bs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7203 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey all, Anyone know of an online source of old patents? I'm looking for one issued in 1949. IBM's site goes back 25 yrs, and the USPTO didn't have the one I wanted. The last time I did a traditional search (at the N.Y. Public Library in '86) the online CDs did at least point you to the volume that contained the printed copy. TIA, -Charlie- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 20 10:23:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA06631; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:13:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:13:58 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <8754840c.362cc47e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:12:30 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Disappearing inventor, Mario Pasichinskyj Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Resent-Message-ID: <"0F2pe3.0.Pd1.LJCBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7204 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have been doing extensive searches for an inventor named, Mario Pasichinskyj, he is the inventor of the Magnetic Motion Electrical Generator, Patent # 4,904,926 It can be found on the IBM patent server Magnetic motion electrical generator (4904926) http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4904926. The attorney, agent, or firm is listed as M. K. Silverman. I found a listing for a patent attorney in Miami, Fl. under this name, (this is where Mario's address is listed also), but she said she has never done any work for him. All searches for him in the white pages and yellow pages show no phone any where in the USA. I'm not that experienced in people searches, so if any one on the list is good at searches, I would appreciate it if you could help me find this inventor who seems to have disappeared. His name is very unique and should not be hard to find for some one good with people searches. I would greatly appreciate any help with this as I will continue looking also. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 20 11:16:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA02994; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:11:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:11:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199810201809.OAA00283@surfergirl.spacey.net> Reply-To: From: "dwenbert" To: Subject: Re: Disappearing inventor, Mario Pasichinskyj Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:10:25 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"U5GZz.0.ek.59DBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7205 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dude, > I have been doing extensive searches for an inventor named, Mario > Pasichinskyj, he is the inventor of the Magnetic Motion Electrical Generator, > Patent # 4,904,926 > It can be found on the IBM patent server > http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4904926. The attorney, agent, > or firm is listed as M. K. Silverman. I found a listing for a patent attorney > in Miami, Fl. under this name, (this is where Mario's address is listed also), > but she said she has never done any work for him. I would give the Miami patent attorney [Ms. Silverman] one more chance to come clean with his whereabouts, before calling the bureau of investigation of the Metro-Dade Sherriffs Department and reporting suspicion of foul play. If she is listed on the patent application, she most assuredly knows more about this than she is telling. There is NO possibility that she is listed as patent counsel on a patent for an inventor she hasn't heard of. The application process doesn't work that way. Good luck, and prayers for poor Mr. Pasichinskyj; let's hope he's not another innocent victim of society's ignorance and cowardice, like Stan Meyer, Yull Brown, and other recent casualties. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 20 13:56:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA19554; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:42:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:42:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:42:43 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Lazer welder parts for sale Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"BTctu.0.Ln4.WMFBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7206 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Reply privately to this person (he's not a subscriber) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:14:06 -0700 (PDT) From: dilligaf To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: Lazer welder parts Dear Bill, My name is Robert. I recently had the pleasure of dismantling anoutdated, barely used, laser welder.This welder had a maximum output of 3 kilo volts. There were 3 huge industrial capacitors and 3 big transformers inside it. Also there were 2 nice size coils inside. I would like to sell these items, but can't find a good bulletin board to post them on. I scrap metal for a hobbie but thought someone out there might find a better use for these items. I will sell them at a very resonable price, cheaper than an indavidual could make them homemade. Could you please help me in finding a good bulletin board or a buyer for these items? Thankyou for your time. I can be reached through www.dilligaf @ rocketmail . com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 20 14:48:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA17841; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:42:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:42:14 -0700 Message-ID: <002a01bdfc72$ca53c200$69298e8b@plassy> From: "Plasmatic" To: Subject: Re: Free energy Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:44:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA17776 Resent-Message-ID: <"waEiT1.0.fM4.rEGBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7207 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Of course, the matierals would still wear out in these, but would that be affected too? Do they not use Hydrogen for preserving foods in plastic? Like those burgers in a puffed up plastic bag that you buy at the gas stations :) Also, the opposite may h appen. Oxidization. What would the effects of these two be on the life of the entire thing? Any ideas? -Plasmatic Plas@Dlcwest.Com -----Original Message----- From: Richard Austin To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: October 20, 1998 3:13 AM Subject: Re: Free energy >Then what you suggest for storage could be a coiled plastic pipe, buried outside a home with connections to a small energy unit also outside, perhaps also buried for safety? Wires in, wires out. > >What volume of storage would carry a modest home for a few days of cloud cover? >What size of photovoltaic array would be needed to charge the system? >How would you pressurized the storage? At what pressure? >What voltage & amperage is provided by a fuel cell? >I presume it is D.C., Is there a low cost way to convert to A.C. house current? >What would such a system cost for the do it yourselfer? > >Lots of practical type questions need to be addressed for creating such a system, but I like the idea of an alternative energy storage to batteries which are toxic, expensive, and wear out. > >Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU >Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 20 15:28:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA05669; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:25:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:25:24 -0700 MR-Received: by mta SOCCER; Relayed; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:24:09 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:26:50 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 17:34:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: Free energy To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:24:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal Sensitivity: Company-Confidential UA-content-id: E1795ZXPRQAMKO X400-MTS-identifier: [;90428102018991/3298702@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"vOIB7.0.HO1.JtGBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7208 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: TR Knudtson (snip) >Solar cell 30% but 100% FREE of cost. Where are you getting 30% PV cells? Last I heard the maximum was around 16.6% http://www.ASTROPOWER.com/cellrecord.html Bill ________________________________________________________/////___________ | William E. Briggs Jr. | ~ ~ | | webriggs@concentric.net | -@-@- | |-------------------------|---------------------------ooo--U--ooo--------| | XLN Systems, Inc. |Ideas presented are my own hair brained ideas,| | Columbus, OH |and not the hair brained ideas of my employer.| ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 20 15:42:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA11770; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:37:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:37:17 -0700 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUApaHdhggGqJJrmO1hXiFwDNAvtC0CFFRbzqZU6MiNq+/CzaK3sllo+qoA From: dennisgarrett@webtv.net (Dennis Garrett) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:38:53 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free energy Message-ID: <162-362D10FD-4033@mailtod-172.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"xj8Db3.0.nt2.R2HBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7209 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: and where are you getting pv's free of cost? i want LOTS at that price. Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 20 16:14:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA25987; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:11:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:11:57 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981016162607.00891990@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:26:07 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free energy In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"kT2vQ2.0.sL6.xYHBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7211 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:34 PM 10/20/98 -0400, you wrote: >TR Knudtson > >(snip) >>Solar cell 30% but 100% FREE of cost. > >Where are you getting 30% PV cells? > >Last I heard the maximum was around 16.6% I will accept that figure, and modify my statement, 16.6% FREE Energy. Best TR Knudtson > >http://www.ASTROPOWER.com/cellrecord.html > >Bill > > ________________________________________________________/////___________ >| William E. Briggs Jr. | ~ ~ | >| webriggs@concentric.net | -@-@- | >|-------------------------|---------------------------ooo--U--ooo--------| >| XLN Systems, Inc. |Ideas presented are my own hair brained ideas,| >| Columbus, OH |and not the hair brained ideas of my employer.| > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 20 16:15:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA27470; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:14:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:14:24 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981016162823.00899100@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:28:23 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free energy In-Reply-To: <162-362D10FD-4033@mailtod-172.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"jj7uS1.0.3j6.FbHBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7212 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:38 PM 10/20/98 -0700, you wrote: >and where are you getting pv's free of cost? i want LOTS at that price. >Dennis > > >Yes, presently solar cells are rather expencive, but the nature of the discussion is efficiancies not total cost. Please try to stay with the discussion. All the best TR Knudtson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 20 16:15:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA22961; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:06:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:06:11 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981016161947.008919f0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:19:47 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free energy In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19981016010746.0088d420@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981015181556.007cc100@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"cIG4O.0.hc5.YTHBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7210 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Richard Thank you so much for your well considered and optimistic questioning. It is often the response of others in discussing a new technology or an invention, that the efforts are totally discounted, if a questioner can not go right down to the nearest Sears store and buy a unit. Using this technology of both hydrogen and Hydroxy I have made electrical storage systems, smelted and produced steels from ore, produced synthetic gemstones of superior hardness, produced hydrogen and oxygen from stone, welded aluminum, and other metals in a total vacuum, glazed ceramics while I held them in my hand, hardened steels to near diamond toughness. On and on. I liken this technology to the development of the engine automobile. First you need to develop the principle of exploding combustible fuels in a cylinder, then work out the cerebration of fuels, then the sealing of valves and the piston, then articulate the process with timing gears and an output crankshaft, add clutching and a gear train, develop ignition systems and spark distribution, and finally cool the whole process. The key is that, the principles are intact, sound, and that easy solutions exist to each logical step. Evaluating storage. With the advent is Kevlar materials, much stronger than steel, I would see an array of cylinders of this substance, arranged in a in vertical orientation, and in common manifold with the production cell mounted below. The water that is a byproduct of electrical conversion, could then drain back into the electrolyzer By gravity. The emitter plates of the fuel cells could then be incorporated into the upper ends of the storage cylinders. Proper electrolyte levels could insure gaseous seal one storage cylinder to the other. All of this has been done and tested, in PVC mind you. But the critical need still remains for a system of equalization one storage cylinder to another. The rapid burn rate of Hydroxy is such that we have not found any type of check valve that can close fast enough to stop flash over of the storage cylinders. The answer may be that just the total integrity of the unit need be sufficient to sustain a complete flashback of the unit. At that point small equalizer tubes would be all that would be needed. The other solution is that a single unit be constructed that allows, for the multiplexing of units electrically. I favor the later, as then an individual could size their electrical demands and order X number of cells. The critical factor of such a design is that the multiplexed single cell concept, would then have no moving parts to break or malfunction. Assembled much like a multi-celled battery these units could then be connected in such a way to supply any voltage required. Allowing for electrical production of the storage gas and the spontaneous supply of electrical output, each being totally isolated from the other. The value of the Knudtson fuel cell comes from the property of electricity it's self. With no load the unit just sits there, put a load to this device and it begins to operate. Cheep easy to use, and flattens out the spermatic output of both wind and solar power. FREE energy in a bottle. If this system is to be used primarily for a single home, lighting can be found in any number of voltages. In the case of Halogen, 22 and 12 Volts are common and produces a full spectrum light. Florescent was originally designed to work on low voltage current, by Tesla, and incandescent is the most adaptable in that it is a purely resistive load and will work on any voltage and are commercially available in all Voltages in common base diameters. As far as 110 Volt appliances, the most efficient way to obtain this current is through electronic inversion, inverters are available in a vast array of Wattage's. At current prices of solar panels, you should be prepared to spend about $2,000.00 for a significant system. Keep in mind that the electrical demand for a home is much lower during the day if you factor out air-conditioning costs. Ground effect air-conditioning is probably the answer here, but a total home built system should not cost over $5,000.00 . The fact that solar cells, the primary component of this system, last for many decades, I find this cost to be a valued solution to conventional energy sourcing, not to mention the aspect of being totally non polluting, and allowing for complete energy independence. Considering the vast savings in high volume manufacturing, I see a day where this system would be available commercially for $2,000.00. All the best TR Knudtson At 05:14 AM 10/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >Then what you suggest for storage could be a coiled plastic pipe, buried outside a home with connections to a small energy unit also outside, perhaps also buried for safety? Wires in, wires out. > >What volume of storage would carry a modest home for a few days of cloud cover? >What size of photovoltaic array would be needed to charge the system? >How would you pressurized the storage? At what pressure? >What voltage & amperage is provided by a fuel cell? >I presume it is D.C., Is there a low cost way to convert to A.C. house current? >What would such a system cost for the do it yourselfer? > >Lots of practical type questions need to be addressed for creating such a system, but I like the idea of an alternative energy storage to batteries which are toxic, expensive, and wear out. > >Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU >Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 20 18:30:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA13691; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:22:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:22:55 -0700 From: "Pete Art" To: Subject: RE: Free energy Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 03:27:46 +0200 Message-ID: <000401bdfc92$022d7440$6f02a8c0@Marvin.xs4all.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BDFCA2.C5B64440" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981016162607.00891990@earthlink.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"f-7FU3.0.fL3.jTJBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7213 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BDFCA2.C5B64440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > -----Original Message----- > From: trknute@earthlink.net [mailto:trknute@earthlink.net] > Sent: zaterdag 17 oktober 1998 1:26 > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Free energy > > > At 05:34 PM 10/20/98 -0400, you wrote: > >TR Knudtson > > > >(snip) > >>Solar cell 30% but 100% FREE of cost. > > > >Where are you getting 30% PV cells? > > > >Last I heard the maximum was around 16.6% > > I will accept that figure, and modify my statement, 16.6% FREE Energy. > > Best > > TR Knudtson Some have more...... See attached files originally from Keelynet-mirror, ( http://www.newphys.se/elektromagnum/physics/KeelyNet/energy/index.html ) and a mail found on the net. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- SOLAR1.ASC 5,190 02/24/92| Alumaloid solar panels have 72% effecien | some details with patent # and contacts SOLAR2.ASC 33,181 03/14/92| details on Lumaloid 80% efficient | solar cell film of Dr. Marks ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:46:59 -0800 (PST) Christopher Robinson (cr4@axe.humboldt.edu) Greetings, In this month's Scientific American, a new tech utilizing electro-conductive polymers (plastic) is featured that shows real promise as a material to produce electricity from solar energy and store it as well (thus acting as generator and battery, both). The product will be marketed as Lumaloid and will be priced at ~ 50 cents a watt output (as opposed to $3-$4a watt with current photovoltaic tech). Apparently it will be sold in rolls like tin foil. This sounds promising (assuming relatively "clean" tech is used to produce the polymers from recycled plastic) Cheers, Christopher M Robinson The Humboldt Sustainable Community Project The HumboldtNation admin@humnat.org // found at http://csf.colorado.edu/mail/bioregional/dec96/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BDFCA2.C5B64440 Content-Type: application/x-zip-compressed; name="solar1.zip" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="solar1.zip" UEsDBBQAAAAIAAsaVSU2dEfiQAgAAEYUAAAKAAAAc29sYXIxLmFzY7VY728bNxL9XuD+hzGuRRNA UvXLsVMgH2ynQd3asWG7195HapfS8rxLbkiu1b2//t4MpdVKcd0WyK2TwNGSw5k3b94M9dVX/8AP HTyv1s7nVHuX6RCcp1p5VemofaCr63enA7q7fndyPKCH63fTAZ3j39efG0nPg3rUlpbeVfSz1mX7 UUc6P7+nV9PJ/DXNpvPh7Hg8+aPd8tzXzsILndOipX8pu1Jw7j4z2sK9F3d2z+0Nnd/8RpPx7OWj 5LnW4VNjokZ8v9HJ8eR4/BxGm+eh0F6Twt+z8/ubq18efrj6N328obsf7h/uLi8eLm8+3j+32VnK 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/PwoU3iO4D3/lb0IPL8t/QvXNC42rvUvcYf+rAtTfkQOrupYwSOGYI+ev1PtTIJX+yg7/4af66bI Pbl9fHT/Trh3fH/26OH9I5ws9iX9w/H949nje/f/+h9ezlf710d34WD/C1BLAQIUABQAAAAIAF0a VSW7YThv/i4AAJ2BAAAKAAAAAAAAAAEAIAC2gQAAAABzb2xhcjIuYXNjUEsFBgAAAAABAAEAOAAA ACYvAAAAAA== ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BDFCA2.C5B64440-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 20 19:15:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA30748; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:11:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:11:40 -0700 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981016161947.008919f0@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19981016010746.0088d420@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981015181556.007cc100@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:15:57 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: Free energy Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA30719 Resent-Message-ID: <"SsOQF3.0.HW7.RBKBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7214 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Using this technology of both hydrogen and Hydroxy I have made electrical >storage systems, smelted and produced steels from ore, produced synthetic >gemstones of superior hardness, produced hydrogen and oxygen from stone, >welded aluminum, and other metals in a total vacuum, glazed ceramics while >I held them in my hand, hardened steels to near diamond toughness. On and on. ** Are there sites on the net that explain these uses and how to manage them safely? > >Evaluating storage. > >With the advent is Kevlar materials, much stronger than steel, I would see >an array of cylinders of this substance, arranged in a in vertical >orientation, and in common manifold with the production cell mounted below. > The water that is a byproduct of electrical conversion, could then drain >back into the electrolyzer By gravity. The emitter plates of the fuel >cells could then be incorporated into the upper ends of the storage >cylinders. Proper electrolyte levels could insure gaseous seal one storage >cylinder to the other. All of this has been done and tested, in PVC mind >you. But the critical need still remains for a system of equalization one >storage cylinder to another. The rapid burn rate of Hydroxy is such that >we have not found any type of check valve that can close fast enough to >stop flash over of the storage cylinders. The answer may be that just the >total integrity of the unit need be sufficient to sustain a complete >flashback of the unit. At that point small equalizer tubes would be all >that would be needed. ** Long tubes could be buried at a slight incline and achieve the effect of draining water for recovery... and could be buried easily. If there is flash back is there an explosion or implosion? Would the heat expand the inside so fast as to make equalizer tubes ineffective? I don't really understand the equalizer tubes and how they would be used. If the storage is under pressure equalization is automatic is it not? Does it increase or decrease the risk when pressurized? >>How would you pressurized the storage? At what pressure? >>What voltage & amperage is provided by a fuel cell? > >The other solution is that a single unit be constructed that allows, for >the multiplexing of units electrically. > >I favor the later, as then an individual could size their electrical >demands and order X number of cells. The critical factor of such a design >is that the multiplexed single cell concept, would then have no moving >parts to break or malfunction. Assembled much like a multi-celled battery >these units could then be connected in such a way to supply any voltage >required. Allowing for electrical production of the storage gas and the >spontaneous supply of electrical output, ...snip ** this is a very attractive aspect... > >If this system is to be used primarily for a single home, lighting can be >found in any number of voltages. In the case of Halogen, 22 and 12 Volts >are common and produces a full spectrum light. Florescent was originally >designed to work on low voltage current, by Tesla, and incandescent is the >most adaptable in that it is a purely resistive load and will work on any >voltage and are commercially available in all Voltages in common base >diameters. As far as 110 Volt appliances, the most efficient way to >obtain this current is through electronic inversion, inverters are >available in a vast array of Wattage's. > >At current prices of solar panels, you should be prepared to spend about >$2,000.00 for a significant system. >Keep in mind that the electrical demand for a home is much lower during the >day if you factor out air-conditioning costs. Ground effect >air-conditioning is probably the answer here, but a total home built system >should not cost over $5,000.00 . The fact that solar cells, the primary >component of this system, last for many decades, I find this cost to be a >valued solution to conventional energy sourcing, not to mention the aspect >of being totally non polluting, and allowing for complete energy independence. ** Solar panels are not trouble free and do have a limited life (30 years or so?) and are prone to catastrophic damage from hail, wind and other weathering factors. I am considering a stirling engine charger run using dried cellulose wastes for fuel (solar i n another form), which could potentially be much cheaper and allow charging at any time (not without fueling and starting however). > >Considering the vast savings in high volume manufacturing, I see a day >where this system would be available commercially for $2,000.00. > >All the best > >TR Knudtson > Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 20 23:38:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA25318; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 23:36:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 23:36:14 -0700 From: UNIR2B1@aol.com Message-ID: <5d5c29d8.362d8000@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 02:32:32 EDT To: murrayjm@juno.com Cc: UNIR2B1@aol.com, PetMagic@aol.com, piercemark@hotmail.com, markland@rockisland.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, UFOLAWYER1@aol.com, Terri Schoolden , lkvp@mail.awod.com, Sharon Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: FW: PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY NOW FORMING... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"z8WLa2.0._A6.T3OBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7215 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-10-20 23:45:58 EDT, you write: >I'm interested in your community. > >Please answer a few questions: > >What are the requirements for joining your community. Until our assemblage has crystallized and more specifics can be worked out by mutual agreement, the initial requirements are attitudinal. WRT material: a commitment to improving every aspect of lifestyle in terms of simplicity, sustainabilty and efficiency; open-mindedness toward such improvements as they come along; willingness to assist in their development, at least by utilizing and/or critiquing them--for our collective increase. Spiritually: an desire make things ever better; where you see a problem, to solve or at least articulate it; if you receive admonition, to consider it. (These are implicit in the Golden Rule.) >Do you have a 'leader' and what type of person is he/she. 'Come, let us reason together'...'where two or three of you are gathered...' I'm convicted that consensus-building is assured, given a cooperatively- oriented group with enough *attention span* to apply the Dialectical (logical/creative) process to the complete mix of facts, perspectives and agendas relevant to an issue. To the extent that we allow it, Reason itself--of each of us holds a part--can be our leader. Ginger is for now the property owner, absolutely a 'salt of the earth' type. I tend to function as a moderator of group discussions, focussing on conceptual form; becoming highly motivated & enthusiastic when I see that a resolution has been well- concieved, and remaining circumspect until the criteria of a true resolution are met. I leave description of my personage to you (I would hope to qualify as *evolving*). >Are you screening applicants, so you can eliminate substance users and >others w/ 'trouble'-prone characters. Yes, through this process and by meeting them personally. I have also been fielding an interrogative like the following: >>My original 'posts' were disseminated at the Preparedness Expo' in Atlanta via fliers that read, "Bring your skills, your family, your *dreams*". If you move here, you won't be merely joining a group, but co-creating one. The direction our 'community' takes will reflect the vision that each participant brings to it. Therefore, please provide us a preview of the group we would tend to become, by expressing your dearest vision of an ideal microcosm.<< ...Would you care to take that on, please? >Do you accept families w/ children? Yes, so far. >What type of financial requirements do you have for incoming families? We haven't developed rigid stipulations. We have a need to raise a little money to pay off a debt that a small portion of the property carries, but we have some options there, and we consider team effort to be more intrinsically valuable than money. It also depends on whether a tenant wants outright ownership, or what; we're dealing with some who just want to get their family here first, and to iron out finances later. >Can I screen you and the others there? Yes, by visiting us, or however you might suggest (e.g., we could organize a conference call, etc.) >Is there a deadline for joining your community? I wish we were already in the midst of delegating project phases, but we can't rush the right people's finding us. >Thanks! Thank you. BTW, I guess I erased my news article explainging the mid-November meteor shower, but it quoted a NASA official explaining that an appreciable magnitude of specks traveling at 50x the speed of a rifle bullet could "sandblast" satellites (on which we depend for banking, telecommunications, navigation, etc.). Regards, Russ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 21 01:08:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA13391; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:07:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:07:27 -0700 From: RHammar860@aol.com Message-ID: <9e2e856f.362d9676@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:08:22 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Disappearing inventor, Mario Pasichinskyj Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Resent-Message-ID: <"yHX4W3.0.7H3._OPBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7216 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-10-20 13:23:52 EDT, you write: << I have been doing extensive searches for an inventor named, Mario Pasichinskyj, he is the inventor of the Magnetic Motion Electrical Generator, Patent # 4,904,926 It can be found on the IBM patent server Magnetic motion electrical generator (4904926) ht >> What I had done in finding members of the Edwin V Gray family was do a E-mail letter of the west coast states with a letter asking if they were of his family. You may not have all that many person in the whole nation to mail to. Ron Hammar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 21 03:31:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA08480; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 03:30:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 03:30:17 -0700 Message-ID: <005a01bdfda6$7810b040$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Splitting Water Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:26:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"tgilI3.0.P42.vURBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7217 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All RE Splitting Water Thanks for the advice. I read an article in New Scientist about using specific laser pulses to perform chemical reactions. To perform a certain chemical reaction that would normally use a catalyst, an AI system created varying pulses with a laser. The AI system modified the pulses using feedback until the system was very efficient. The resultant pulses were found to be very complex and could not be created from theory. I have tried a similar system to measure the efficiency of one wavelength coils to see if I could get OU without success. I now wish to try the same system for splitting water. I will construct the following system under PC control: 1. Fill the electrolysis vessel by opening a solenoid valve to a preset level. 2. Measure the weight of the water and container and the water temperature. 3. Choose a quasi-random frequency pattern 4. Supply current to the electrolysis vessel using the pattern at stage 3 for ten minutes 5. Measure the weight of the water and container again to determine the amount of water that has been 'liberated' 6. Use an AI algorithm to modify the frequency pattern chosen at stage 3 7. Repeat from stage 1 I will then leave this system running until a 'best' emerges for the splitting. I now need the following information. What material(s) and configuration should I use for the electrodes? What 'kind' of water should I use? Should I add an electrolyte? Is so, what? I have read that low-voltage DC is commonly used. Is there any particular reason for this? Would current reversal extend the electrode life? What is meant by low voltage DC? 1V, 100V? Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 21 07:15:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA07160; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:12:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:12:35 -0700 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAtFS01Od4e8NAP5hpT2gQIeh/A4gCFC7zDhwerztuz6V8tU2YkvMa+on2 From: dennisgarrett@webtv.net (Dennis Garrett) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:14:18 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Splitting Water Message-ID: <5375-362DEC3A-864@mailtod-172.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"A1_oG.0.il1.IlUBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7218 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: an alloy of magnesium and aluminum immersed in water will split water into hydrogen and oxygen as it disolves. i just don't know the efficiencys. i have heard that some big name companies are putting a lot of money into research on it though. does anyone else know anything about it? Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 21 09:56:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA02016; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:51:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:51:19 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981017080831.00892760@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 08:08:31 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Splitting Water In-Reply-To: <005a01bdfda6$7810b040$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"XUVqz2.0.PV.64XBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7219 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Excellent work! Threshold voltage of 1.57 volts is all that is needed to start the process. But for this test I would try 2 Volts DC, then 4 Volts, then 8 Volts and so on. You will need to seal your production unit so that you can tap off the accumulated gas. Measuring the gas output is much more a telltale than is measuring the weight if the water. To do this you will need to construct an accumulator tube. It is nothing more than a clear tube, capped at the top and upended onto a pan of water to form a gas seal at the bottom. Bubble the gas output of your emitter plates into the bottom of the filled accumulator and measure and calculate for the displacement. Plates: You can use mild steel but for accuracy you might want to try Stainless steel. In placing the plates, keep them between 1/4" and 3/8" separation. The proximity of the plates is much more important to efficiencies than is voltage. For calculations use plates of 100 centimeters square, or 10th of a meter sq. In this way you can also calculate and test for plate area to voltage relationships to gas quantities in liters. Electrolyte: I suggest Potassium Hydroxide, as it is most used by nature. Try a 5% by weight then 10% then 20% and so on. Mix the electrolyte by weight, %. The water: Simple demineralized water, found at any store. The kind sold for steam irons. All the best TR Knudtson At 11:26 AM 10/22/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi All > >RE Splitting Water > >Thanks for the advice. > >I read an article in New Scientist about using specific laser pulses to >perform chemical reactions. To perform a certain chemical reaction that >would normally use a catalyst, an AI system created varying pulses with a >laser. The AI system modified the pulses using feedback until the system >was very efficient. The resultant pulses were found to be very complex and >could not be created from theory. > >I have tried a similar system to measure the efficiency of one wavelength >coils to see if I could get OU without success. I now wish to try the same >system for splitting water. > >I will construct the following system under PC control: > >1. Fill the electrolysis vessel by opening a solenoid valve to a preset >level. >2. Measure the weight of the water and container and the water temperature. >3. Choose a quasi-random frequency pattern >4. Supply current to the electrolysis vessel using the pattern at stage 3 >for ten minutes >5. Measure the weight of the water and container again to determine the >amount of water that has been 'liberated' >6. Use an AI algorithm to modify the frequency pattern chosen at stage 3 >7. Repeat from stage 1 > >I will then leave this system running until a 'best' emerges for the >splitting. > >I now need the following information. > >What material(s) and configuration should I use for the electrodes? >What 'kind' of water should I use? >Should I add an electrolyte? Is so, what? > >I have read that low-voltage DC is commonly used. >Is there any particular reason for this? >Would current reversal extend the electrode life? >What is meant by low voltage DC? 1V, 100V? > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 21 13:44:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA29166; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:37:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:37:15 -0700 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Cc: harti@harti.com, JNaudin509@aol.com, serjio@glasnet.ru Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:27:34 -0700 Subject: Re: Nonlinear capacitor converter Message-ID: <19981021.133023.10870.2.tv@juno.com> References: <362BEB49.A5D7A425@harti.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-21,23,25-28,30-32,34,36,38-39,42-43,45,48-49, 51-53,55-56,58,60,62-64,68-70,72-73,75-83,85-90,92-120 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"qvkj02.0.d77.xNaBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7220 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan, Jean-Louis, and Sergio, This indeed very interesting. It will take me some time to understand the math. Ideas like this have been discussed before on vortex-L and freenrg-L but these people have obviously taken it very seriously. As I understand them, the "varicond" is probably a barium titanate capacitor. Barium titanate is a ferroelectric material and has a very high dielectric constant ( K ). Capacitors made with barium titanate dielectrics increase capacitance as they are charged. I found the following information helpful: http://www.novacap.com/broch008.htm I am convinced that some way to organize microscopic fluctuations such as heat and ZPE must exist. After all, it is possible to tap larger scale fluctuations like ocean waves, why not microscopic fluctuations which are everywhere present. Look at talc (baby powder) or diatoms in a drop of water and you can see the fluctuations (brownian motion). I like to call such an organization of fluctuations, "fluctuation coherence". A device employing fluctuation coherence would be able to tap an infinite source of energy which is everywhere available. It would be a perpetual motion machine of the 2nd kind. An apparent violation of the 2nd law of Thermodynamics, but not really, just unexpected by conventional physics and engineering. What is needed is a microscopic mechanism that can interact in large numbers in a cooperative manor to order the energy. Ferromagnetic and ferroelectric effects occur because of interacting atomic and molecular actions. It would seem that these materials would be prime choices for consideration. I have little doubt that such mechanism exist in ferromagnetic and ferroelectric phenomena and by other means such as in transient electron conduction phenomena (plasmas). The problem is, although a fluctuation coherence may exist, it could easily get lost in the other chaos that works to destroy order. A kind of battle of good (order) and evil (entropy). It would be easy to miss the good effects in the noise. Mechanisms may exist within ferroelectric materials that could be used to cohere fluctuations but they could also be easily overlooked and lost if care is not taken to "bring them out of the noise". About the variconds or barium titanate capacitors, I think they are readily available, but I am checking on this now. Some of them are used at high voltage. Maybe the effects described by Nicola Zaev and Sergei Godin work better at high voltage like maybe T.H. Moray did with his radiant energy device. He talked about very high dielectric materials and 1 farad capacitors that he claimed he made in his book "The Sea of Energy". This is a little off track, but I wonder what would happen if you doped the barium titanate with a small amount of an alpha emitter. Paul Brown and John Moreland have discussed the benefits of this as applied to transformers, inductors, and in semiconductor materials. Maybe the effect would be enhanced. We need to check out these experimental results by Nicola Zaev and Sergei Godinmore carefully. There are probably many ways to tap ambient energy, but this maybe one of the best. Best Wishes, Tim Vaughan ( tv@juno.com ) I posted an article on fluctuation coherence and one possible device that may have already employed it on a small scale at: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4810 >On Tue, 20 Oct 1998 02:45:45 +0100 Stefan Hartmann writes: >Hi All, > >I just compiled all the infos I received >from a Russian friend about the nonlinear capacitor >converter ! > >Very interesting device ! > >It converts low temperature environmental heat into electricity ! > >Have a look at: > > >http://www.overunity.com/zaev > > >Regards, Stefan. > > > >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com >http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 21 16:46:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA17057; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:42:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:42:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199810212344.TAA02330@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: Splitting Water Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:44:18 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Z8GDM3.0.BA4.c5dBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7221 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dave and all those interested in electrolysis. I thought the following info from" Fuel from Water" by M. Peavey would prove useful. ----------Dave wrote; > From: David Callaghan > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Splitting Water > Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 5:26 AM > > Hi All > > RE Splitting Water > > I now need the following information. > > What material(s) and configuration should I use for the electrodes? > What 'kind' of water should I use? > Should I add an electrolyte? Is so, what? > > I have read that low-voltage DC is commonly used. > Is there any particular reason for this? > Would current reversal extend the electrode life? > What is meant by low voltage DC? 1V, 100V? > > Best regards > > David Callaghan > > VOLTAGE VS TEMPERATURE pg. 22 of Michael A. Peavay's Fuel from Water If all the energy to split water came from the electric current and no heat flowed into the reaction, 1.481 volts would be needed. As temperature is increased, this voltage at 77 degrees F would just begin to produce waste heat. Over 1.481 volts increasingly large amounts of heat is generated. This critical limit of 1.481 volts is reffered to as the thermoneutral voltage. ( for voltages of 1.23 volts to 1.47 volts, the electrolysis reaction absorbs heat,at over 1.47 volts the reaction gives off heat) Also another very surprising statement; The smallest amount of energy needed to electrolyse one mole of water is 65.3 Wh at 77 F. When the hydrogen and oxygen are recombined into water during combustion 79.3 Wh of energy is released. 14 Wh more energy is released in burning the oxygen and hydrogen than is required to split water. This excess must be absorbed from the surrounding media in the form of heat during electrolysis. Stainless steel T-316 is recomended by George Wiseman, and also reversal of polarity for a short time before shut-down to prevent excessive build-up on plates. Peavey says never to do this as it might explode. I guess it depends on whether the gases are independently evolved, which is not the case on Wisemans devices. Both people advocate using distilled water, chlorine in city water corrodes electrodes. The electrolyte can be 20 to 30 % KOH in distilled water. As a second choice baking soda can be used. It requires 4 volts but is a safer chemical. Use 6 teaspoons per gallon. Note: that last bit of info sounds contradictory, I suspect Peavey meant to say 6 tablespoons and I wonder about the 4 volts figure he quotes in light of his previous info. Sincerly H. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 21 22:43:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA20816; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:41:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:41:30 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981017175449.008944e0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 17:54:49 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Splitting Water In-Reply-To: <199810212344.TAA02330@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"HbAms.0.555.AMiBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7222 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To All I write this with carefully regard not to cast aspersions on George Wiseman or his work. George is working directly from patents that he obtained from a federal repository library in Idaho, in 1996, of the work done some twenty years earlier by Yull Brown, now public domain. George never claims to be the originator of this cell, but rather openly states that he is only attempting to see that this work is continue, and is shared as broadly as possible. I regret that this cell is not more clearly identified as the Browns Series cell. I have worked with George, and know that he will not mind me making this distinction. Even in his published books Browns' Gas I and II, he makes this clear. George's contribution is none the less important, in the adaptation of the capacitance limiting power supply to this design. It is clean simple to construct and offers superior protections for over current that is a menus to efficiencies in these systems. I worked with Brown for most of the 80s and was instrumental in his immigration to the US in 91. I am not in opposition nor in any way in objection to George Wiseman's work, as I see it as invaluable to furthering this technology, but do take this time to set this group clear on some of the pertinent issues in this discussion. All the best TR Knudtson At 07:44 PM 10/21/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Dave and all those interested in electrolysis. I thought the following >info from" Fuel from Water" by M. Peavey would prove useful. > >----------Dave wrote; >> From: David Callaghan >> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> Subject: Re: Splitting Water >> Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 5:26 AM >> >> Hi All >> >> RE Splitting Water >> > I now need the following information. >> >> What material(s) and configuration should I use for the electrodes? >> What 'kind' of water should I use? >> Should I add an electrolyte? Is so, what? >> >> I have read that low-voltage DC is commonly used. >> Is there any particular reason for this? >> Would current reversal extend the electrode life? >> What is meant by low voltage DC? 1V, 100V? >> >> Best regards >> >> David Callaghan >> >> > VOLTAGE VS TEMPERATURE pg. 22 of Michael A. Peavay's Fuel from >Water > If all the energy to split water came from the electric current and no >heat flowed into the reaction, 1.481 volts would be needed. As temperature >is increased, this voltage at 77 degrees F would just begin to produce >waste heat. Over 1.481 volts increasingly large amounts of heat is >generated. This critical limit of 1.481 volts is reffered to as the >thermoneutral voltage. ( for voltages of 1.23 volts to 1.47 volts, the >electrolysis reaction absorbs heat,at over 1.47 volts the reaction gives >off heat) > Also another very surprising statement; > The smallest amount of energy needed to electrolyse one mole of water >is 65.3 Wh at 77 F. When the hydrogen and oxygen are recombined into water >during combustion 79.3 Wh of energy is released. 14 Wh more energy is >released in burning the oxygen and hydrogen than is required to split >water. This excess must be absorbed from the surrounding media in the form >of heat during electrolysis. > >Stainless steel T-316 is recomended by George Wiseman, and also reversal of >polarity for a short time before shut-down to prevent excessive build-up on >plates. Peavey says never to do this as it might explode. I guess it >depends on whether the gases are independently evolved, which is not the >case on Wisemans devices. > >Both people advocate using distilled water, chlorine in city water corrodes >electrodes. >The electrolyte can be 20 to 30 % KOH in distilled water. As a second >choice baking soda can be used. It requires 4 volts but is a safer >chemical. Use 6 teaspoons per gallon. > >Note: that last bit of info sounds contradictory, I suspect Peavey meant to >say 6 tablespoons and I wonder about the 4 volts figure he quotes in light >of his previous info. > >Sincerly H. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 22 05:10:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA01711; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 05:06:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 05:06:04 -0700 Message-ID: <362F2CCB.FDABDC29@harti.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:02:03 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: JNaudin509@aol.com, freenrg-l , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: Self running or Self Stopping ? References: <9adf087b.362e4721@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VN5Kf2.0.fQ.h-nBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7223 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > Hi Stefan, > > What news about your gravitationnal converter testing ? > > Self Running or Self Stopping ? :-) > > Sincerely, > > Jean-Louis They still had problems with the threaded gears and rolls. It must be changed, so the swimmer cylinder goes completely down inside the water cylinder ! Otherwise there is too much "rest-water" down there, which gives too much negative torque... They also still had problems with the gasket (washer). There was running water out of the cylinder in test operation ! I hope they will have it fixed by the end of this week ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 22 10:35:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA06763; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:27:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:27:11 -0700 Message-ID: <003401bdfea9$d1630ea0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Splitting Water Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 18:22:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"LzXpZ1.0.Jf1.ihsBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7224 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi TRK, 'Meat Truck' and All Many thanks for the excellent info. I now have enough information to make a start with this although it will probably take some time to set up properly. In addition to my first thoughts I think I will place a thermocouple between the plates and try to keep the reaction as close to neutro-thermic as possible. To measure the 'gas output' over a period of time I will use a gas accumulator with an ultrasonic sensor in the top to measure the water level (+-0.5mm). I can refill this automatically with water at the same time as the electrolysis vessel at the start of each cycle (I don't have time to sit and watch). I now have the following questions remaining: 1. Are there any specific chemicals/glues I should NOT use in the electrolysis vessel? 2. How much does the starting temperature of the water affect the reaction? Would it be best to have the water at 4C (most dense) ? 3. What properties does the mixed Hydrogen/Oxygen liberated from the water have? What 'state' is each element in? (I imagine 4H and O2). Can I just release the gas into my office? (I understand how to collect the gasses separately). 4. How do I calculate the energy available from burning the gas if I know the volume? What's the best atomic ratio for burning? 5. Will any of the gas dissolve in the water in the gas accumulator? Many thanks for all the excellent help David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 22 14:51:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA21980; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:47:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:47:23 -0700 Message-ID: <362FB505.B2CD883B@harti.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:43:17 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tim Vaughan , freenrg-l , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: Nonlinear capacitor converter References: <362BEB49.A5D7A425@harti.com> <19981021.133023.10870.2.tv@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-mL8z.0.JN5.gVwBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7225 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HiTim and all Dieter Bauer just called me and told me, Sergey has a calculation error in the formular starting from eq.4 on. The measured effects to his opinion is due to the epsilon dielectricum factor is very DEPENDANT on the suroundings heat ! Thus, if d(epsilon) / d(Temperature) > 0 then the dielectricum heats up when it is charged. As the molecules are polarized, there are less axis the molecules can spin ! This heats the material up ! Now during the gap of the commutator the dielectricum cools down. This reduces again epsilon and the C decreases ! As Q=CxV the charge stays constant, but the cap C decrease, due to epsilon is cooling down. Now as the energy is W= 0.5 C V^2 this means that C might decrease to its half value, but voltage V thus raises to its double value and thus the output energy DOUBLES ! ( x 2 !) This is is, what we see, when he discharges the capacitor ! So the effect will vanish, if he does the charge-discharge too fast ! So he should already try with less than 40 Hz ? The dielectricum needs time to cool down in the gap, so he should make the commutator gap wider or wait longer ! He should also be able to measure a voltage drop inside the gap ! This should not be from leakage current, but due to epsilon changing ! The bigger d(epsilon) / d(Temperature) is, the more output power he will get and thus it is an epsilon needed, wich is strongly dependand from the temperature at room temperature ! We have to find the right material ! Do you agree ? P.S.: Dieter Bauer told me all this and made it clear to me.. Tim Vaughan wrote: > > Hi Stefan, Jean-Louis, and Sergio, > > This indeed very interesting. It will take me some time to understand > the > math. > > Ideas like this have been discussed before on vortex-L and freenrg-L > but these people have obviously taken it very seriously. > > As I understand them, the "varicond" is probably a barium titanate > capacitor. Barium titanate is a ferroelectric material and has a very > high dielectric constant ( K ). Capacitors made with barium titanate > dielectrics increase capacitance as they are charged. > > I found the following information helpful: > > http://www.novacap.com/broch008.htm > > I am convinced that some way to organize microscopic fluctuations > such as heat and ZPE must exist. After all, it is possible to tap > larger scale fluctuations like ocean waves, why not microscopic > fluctuations which are everywhere present. Look at talc (baby powder) > or diatoms in a drop of water and you can see the fluctuations (brownian > motion). > I like to call such an organization of fluctuations, "fluctuation > coherence". > A device employing fluctuation coherence would be able to tap > an infinite source of energy which is everywhere available. It would > be a perpetual motion machine of the 2nd kind. An apparent violation > of the 2nd law of Thermodynamics, but not really, just unexpected by > conventional > physics and engineering. > > What is needed is a microscopic mechanism that can interact in large > numbers > in a cooperative manor to order the energy. Ferromagnetic and > ferroelectric effects > occur because of interacting atomic and molecular actions. It would seem > that these materials would be prime choices for consideration. > > I have little doubt that such mechanism exist in ferromagnetic and > ferroelectric phenomena and by other means such as in transient electron > conduction phenomena (plasmas). > > The problem is, although a fluctuation coherence may exist, it could > easily get > lost in the other chaos that works to destroy order. A kind of battle > of good (order) and evil (entropy). It would be easy to miss the good > effects in the noise. > Mechanisms may exist within ferroelectric materials that could be used > to cohere fluctuations but they could also be easily overlooked and lost > if > care is not taken to "bring them out of the noise". > > About the variconds or barium titanate capacitors, I think they are > readily available, > but I am checking on this now. Some of them are used at high voltage. > Maybe the effects described by Nicola Zaev and Sergei Godin work better > at > high voltage like maybe T.H. Moray did with his radiant energy device. > He > talked about very high dielectric materials and 1 farad capacitors that > he claimed > he made in his book "The Sea of Energy". > > This is a little off track, but I wonder what would happen if you doped > the barium titanate with a small amount of an alpha emitter. Paul Brown > and John Moreland have discussed the benefits of this as applied to > transformers, inductors, and > in semiconductor materials. Maybe the effect would be enhanced. > > We need to check out these experimental results by Nicola Zaev and Sergei > Godinmore carefully. > > There are probably many ways to tap ambient energy, but this maybe one of > the > best. > > Best Wishes, > > Tim Vaughan > > ( tv@juno.com ) > > I posted an article on fluctuation coherence and one possible device that > may > have already employed it on a small scale at: > > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4810 > > >On Tue, 20 Oct 1998 02:45:45 +0100 Stefan Hartmann > writes: > >Hi All, > > > >I just compiled all the infos I received > >from a Russian friend about the nonlinear capacitor > >converter ! > > > >Very interesting device ! > > > >It converts low temperature environmental heat into electricity ! > > > >Have a look at: > > > > > >http://www.overunity.com/zaev > > > > > >Regards, Stefan. > > > > > > > >-- > >Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann > >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > >Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 > >email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com > >http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 22 15:40:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA09450; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:24:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:24:44 -0700 From: UNIR2B1@aol.com Message-ID: <86f981f3.362fb09e@aol.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:24:30 EDT To: Carolyn Cc: piercemark@hotmail.com, markland@rockisland.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, UFOLAWYER1@aol.com, Terri Schoolden , lkvp@mail.awod.com, Sharon , Vince Goetsch <3wishes@wishgranted.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY NOW FORMING... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"3RKEH3.0.TJ2.g2xBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7226 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-10-21 13:18:08 EDT, you write: >Hi, I am very interested in this community. I have investigated other >intentional >communities. I need more information about geographical location. What >State is >it in? Near what town? I will probably be unsubscribing to this forum. The >volume is too much and a lot of it is irrelevant. Please correspond with me >directly. Thank You Carolyn Hi-- We're in NE Alabama N of Gadsden, in an area that should be topological safe WRT current events in the Antarctic. Gadsden is just large enough to have *almost* anything you would want in the way of material goods (but no casinos, strippers, etc.). :) Among this area's advantages are its notably congenial people, natural beauty, mild winters, and extremely low cost of living (including a robust sub-economy of 'flea markets' & classified ad bulletins; one of our current residents just bought a beautifully functional, full-size freezer for $25)! Time is pressing on the prudent; e.g., the mid-Nov. meteor shower potentially portends catastrophic satellite failure. Such threats to existing infra- structure should spur us to pro-actively architect our own. And if our community is successful, the basis of its solidarity will eventually shift from external challenges facing the collective, to congruent aspirations among its individuals. At the outset, therefore, we're interested in your vision of the 'perfect' community. As I have said--if you move here, you won't be merely joining a group, but co-creating one. The direction our 'community' takes will result from the vision that each participant brings to it. Therefore, please provide us a preview of the group we would tend to become, by expressing your dearest vision of an ideal microcosm. Let's try for the best of all possible futures, and apply it to the current exigencies (...quickly please). --Russ PS Methodological developments are progressing daily; a healthier lifestyle at a fractional cost awaits, but it would be realized sooner if I had more partners with whom to share the experimental procedures. I hope we will not be overtaken by events that would preclude the gathering of those who belong together. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 22 16:27:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA01262; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:23:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:23:30 -0700 From: mindtech@nor.com.au Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981023093138.00735bb4@pophost.nor.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:31:38 +1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Nonlinear capacitor converter In-Reply-To: <19981021.133023.10870.2.tv@juno.com> References: <362BEB49.A5D7A425@harti.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"tdaLz3.0.cJ.nvxBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7227 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Maybe the effects described by Nicola Zaev and Sergei Godin work better >at >high voltage like maybe T.H. Moray did with his radiant energy device. >He >talked about very high dielectric materials and 1 farad capacitors that >he claimed >he made in his book "The Sea of Energy". > >Tim Vaughan > The key is the _non-linear_ poling properties of ferroelectrics. This occurs spontaneously at the "coercive voltage", usually in the KV range. Toggling of this polarity is where the potential energy gain is encountered. At this point, electrons mobilized from the matrix leave holes that can be repopulated from the vacuum if a suitable window is superimposed through vector cancellation. Another way of looking at it is that the vacuum influx is seeking to "un-non-linearize" the process, and thus prevent a "violation" of nature. To effect extraction, without loading the physical system, the forces creating this window must be in resonance with the ferroelectric component. Ideally, it should be a crystal, as the poling coefficient is several times higher. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 22 18:01:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA05958; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:55:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:55:37 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <362FB505.B2CD883B@harti.com> References: <362BEB49.A5D7A425@harti.com> <19981021.133023.10870.2.tv@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:54:20 -1000 To: freenrg list From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Nonlinear capacitor converter Resent-Message-ID: <"mWkai.0.wS1.9GzBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7228 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan - This sounds like an efficient variation of the T. Townsend Brown style capacitor charging setups I played with a while ago. I could imagine setting up large banks of these capacitors and getting amps instead of only the pico-amps I was collecting. Sounds like they could air condition your room while they generated power too! Somehow it doesn't seem like a practical possibility to me, but the effect is certainly there. My caps were reacting to daily heating. Strangely, they seemed to react to the heating outside even if they were kept inside a cooler having a more constant temperature than the outside air. Maybe it was caused by ferroelectric fields from the heated ground outside, something like that. TTB registered these same kinds dod daily charging curves even when the capacitor was in a constant-temperature chamber. No doubt it's free energy, but is it practical energy that can be harvested with equipment that beats diesel or solar in terms of purchasing and maintaining it versus the lifetime of the equipment and the net energy collected? That's the question. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 22 18:23:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA17031; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:20:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:20:40 -0700 From: UNIR2B1@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:01:02 EDT To: piercemark@hotmail.com, markland@rockisland.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, UFOLAWYER1@aol.com, Terri Schoolden , lkvp@mail.awod.com, Sharon , Vince Goetsch <3wishes@wishgranted.com>, Carolyn Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: 'PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY' Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"R1tvg3.0._94.ddzBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7229 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: [...topologically...] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 22 18:39:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA01249; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:36:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:36:32 -0700 Message-ID: <362FEA48.610F316E@harti.com> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 03:30:32 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Nonlinear capacitor converter updated ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dUn_l2.0.MJ.yrzBs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7230 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Please have a look at: http://www.overunity.com/zaev/ Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 22 21:15:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA31326 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:15:56 -0700 Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:15:56 -0700 X-Envelope-From: warlock@eskimo.com Thu Oct 22 21:15:54 1998 Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA31288 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:15:53 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (warlock@tia1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.40]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA23243 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:17:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2-beta-112797 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <121602c9.362ba941@aol.com> Old-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: warlock@eskimo.com Sender: root@eskimo.com From: Jim Richardson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [On Topic] Splitting Water X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: On 19-Oct-98 UNIR2B1@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-10-19 04:37:54 EDT, you write: > >> >>Hi All >> >>What is the current best method(s) for extracting hydrogen and oxygen from >>water? Efficiencies if known would be appreciated. >> >> > > An interesting question: have you heard of an invention from earlier this > century called the Sterling engine (promulgated by Dennis Lee), which > produces > rotary power from thermal differential alone? An H flame would perhaps > produce *more* than enough torque to electrolyze drive an alternator for > electrolyzing water. Alas, the Sterling cycle engine (invented by a scottish Rev. Sterling in ~1814) is a perfectly ordinary heat engine, subject to all the laws of thermodynamics as all other known heat engines. Carnot still rules I am afraid. For those interested in further info on sterling engines, try "Steam and sterling enginse you can build." author unremembered. Also, lindsay publications carries Dave Gingery's sterling engine plan book. The sterling engine is quite interesting, a company called (if I remember correctly. ) Sun power is developing a portable unit, rugged and reliable, for use in third world countries where fuel sources vary. Since it is like a steam engine, in that it is an external heat engine, any source of heat can be used to power it. The hotter the heat source, the more effecient, but waste heat from say, a land fill will do the job too. Not "free" energy, but just as useful. --- Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock anarchist, pagan and proud of it. 'all hail eris' "Linux, 99% less fat than the other brand, and fun too..." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 22 22:06:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA11816; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:04:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:04:07 -0700 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Cc: harti@harti.com, JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:39:19 -0700 Subject: Re: Nonlinear capacitor converter Message-ID: <19981022.215647.9918.0.tv@juno.com> References: <362FB505.B2CD883B@harti.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,6-10,12,15-17,21,23,25,27-28,30,32-36,38-51, 53-65,67,69-76,78-127 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"gy7Cx.0.Mu2._u0Cs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7231 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan, Forgive me if I ramble, but I think best sometimes by writing and I am interested in stimulating others to think also. Barium Titanate is a material that changes its epsilon (dielectric "constant") with temperature so it might be what you looking for. When I consider what might be possible with an ferroelectric material, I have to think in a mechanical way. As I understand it, the heat effects involving a ferroelectric material are similar to what happens with some ferromagnetic and paramagnetic materials. When some materials are put in a magnetic field they give up heat, or get hotter. Where does the heat come from ? Perhaps it easier to understand if you think in a mechanical way. When a magnetic field is applied it causes alignment of spins in the material and in so doing , it reduces the freedom of motion that the molecules of the material have available and so it loses some capacity to hold heat energy. Therefore, at least most of the heat energy released was previously stored in the material. Also, work was done on the material to align the spins, this also stores more energy in the material. When a ferroelectric material is removed from the electric field, the alignments are no longer constrained and so the material can absorb heat and therefore its temperature lowers as heat energy is stored in a latent form. Is it possible to order ambient energy with a ferroelectric material ? I think the answer is yes. However, if it takes more energy to cause the conversion of low grade thermal energy to high grade electrical energy than what you get out, the coherence effects are lost. The random fluctuations of heat energy are good at disorganizing weak molecular scale structures, so it seems that a good way to convert low grade ambient energy to high grade potential energy would be to use some process where heat can do the work of disorganizing a structure that results in the storage of potential energy in some way. The most obvious way to do this would be to use heat to disorder the ionic displacements in the dielectric material of a charged capacitor. This would be a thermally driven parametric generator or charge pump. If you charge a parallel plate capacitor, and then pull the plates apart, you do work on the capacitor that results in increase in stored electrical energy. The Wimhurst electrostatic generator works by this principle. With the nonlinear capacitor converter, the ambient heat energy would in effect be doing the work of pulling the plates apart, not by actually pulling the plates apart, but by decreasing the ability of the dielectric to store a charge displacement Another problem is the fact the heat energy is constantly trying to destroy the order in the dielectric so that heat will also do work to oppose the initial ordering that is require for the cycle to begin. How do you allow the ambient energy to do its work of disordering the dielectric without also working against you ? Stefan, does the calculation error described by Dieter Bauer destroy the basic premise of using capacitors to convert ambient energy ? What does he say about this ? Best Wishes, Tim Vaughan ( tv@juno.com ) On Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:43:17 +0100 Stefan Hartmann writes: >HiTim and all > >Dieter Bauer just called me and >told me, >Sergey has a calculation error in the formular starting from eq.4 on. > >The measured effects to his opinion is due to the epsilon dielectricum >factor is very DEPENDANT on the suroundings heat ! > >Thus, if d(epsilon) / d(Temperature) > 0 >then the dielectricum heats up when it is charged. >As the molecules are polarized, there are less axis >the molecules can spin ! This heats the material up ! > >Now during the gap of the commutator the dielectricum cools >down. This reduces again epsilon and the C decreases ! > >As Q=CxV the charge stays constant, but the cap C decrease, due to >epsilon >is cooling down. Now as the energy is W= 0.5 C V^2 >this means that C might decrease to its half value, but voltage V >thus raises to its double value and thus the output energy DOUBLES ! >( x 2 !) > >This is is, what we see, when he discharges the capacitor ! > >So the effect will vanish, if he does the charge-discharge too fast ! >So he should already try with less than 40 Hz ? > >The dielectricum needs time to cool down in the gap, so he should make >the commutator gap >wider or wait longer ! >He should also be able to measure a voltage drop inside the gap ! >This should not be from leakage current, but due to epsilon changing ! > >The bigger d(epsilon) / d(Temperature) is, the more output power he >will get >and thus it is an epsilon needed, wich is strongly dependand from the >temperature >at room temperature ! >We have to find the right material ! > > >Do you agree ? > >P.S.: Dieter Bauer told me all this and made it clear to me.. > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 22 23:00:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA28400; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:57:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:57:54 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: JNaudin509@aol.com, harti@harti.com Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:27:19 -0700 Subject: Re: Nonlinear capacitor converter Message-ID: <19981022.225048.9918.6.tv@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-8,10-15,17-29,31-45 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"tsZIv1.0.ex6.Vh1Cs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7233 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Peter, Thank you for these very interesting comments.... >The key is the _non-linear_ poling properties of ferroelectrics. This >occurs spontaneously at the "coercive voltage", usually in the KV >range. Toggling of this polarity is where the potential energy gain is >encountered. Is this the displacement of the Ti+4 cation from one side of the BaTiO3 molecule to the other by the imposed electric field ? > >At this point, electrons mobilized from the matrix leave holes that >can be repopulated from the vacuum if a suitable window is superimposed >through vector cancellation. Another way of looking at it is that the vacuum >influx is seeking to "un-non-linearize" the process, and thus prevent a >"violation" of nature. Repopulated by virtual electrons ?? Why ? What is the window ? Vector cancellation of what ? > >To effect extraction, without loading the physical system, the forces >creating this window must be in resonance with the ferroelectric >component. Ideally, it should be a crystal, as the poling coefficient is several >times higher. Can you suggest an appropriate source of materials such as the crystal ? Would it be practical to make my own BaTiO3 crytals ? Thanks, Tim > >Peter Nielsen > > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 22 23:00:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA28372; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:57:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:57:48 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:39:26 -0700 Subject: Re: Nonlinear capacitor converter Message-ID: <19981022.225049.9918.9.tv@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,4,6-13,15-20,22-29,31-34,36-44 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"1Lo3b1.0.iw6.Rh1Cs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7232 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Rick, This may not be practical yet. If it works at all. I would just be happy with something that really demonstrates some kind of tapping of ambient energy. Even a few hundred milliwatts would be cool ! Pun intended. :-) Tim ( tv@juno.com ) On Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:54:20 -1000 Rick Monteverde writes: >Stefan - > >This sounds like an efficient variation of the T. Townsend Brown style >capacitor charging setups I played with a while ago. I could imagine >setting up large banks of these capacitors and getting amps instead of >only the pico-amps I was collecting. Sounds like they could air condition >your room while they generated power too! Somehow it doesn't seem like a >practical possibility to me, but the effect is certainly there. My >caps >were reacting to daily heating. Strangely, they seemed to react to the >heating outside even if they were kept inside a cooler having a more >constant temperature than the outside air. Maybe it was caused by >ferroelectric fields from the heated ground outside, something like >that. TTB registered these same kinds dod daily charging curves even when >the capacitor was in a constant-temperature chamber. > >No doubt it's free energy, but is it practical energy that can be >harvested with equipment that beats diesel or solar in terms of purchasing and >maintaining it versus the lifetime of the equipment and the net energy >collected? That's the question. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 22 23:53:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA10827; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:46:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:46:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199810230647.CAA13705@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Cc: , Subject: Re: Nonlinear capacitor converter Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:48:19 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_TuzX.0.le2.zO2Cs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7234 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: One of the statements of an electric-magnetic interaction is that the magnetic field itself adds no energy to the situation. One can sit back like an Indian and wonder about this. I remember my good Indian friend Doc who helped me with experimentation in the early years. If a charged particle moves through space due to the electric field; a corresponding magnetic field at right angles can divert that charged particles path at right angles. This causes a continual right angle deflection resulting in a spiral. Even though two forces have now acted upon the particle the actual momentum must remain the same which means the velocity of the particle is not increased by this spiral interaction. Thus no energy is added by the magnetic force. Ordinarily molecules moving through space do not contribute any factor of heat expression through their spin, but according to the kinetic theory of gasses at higher temperatures this spin effect is noted. In dielectric effects of higher frequencies this natural effect of higher temperatures might be replicated at lower temperatures. This is very commonly noted by the spins of a dielectric molecule that has been stretched and rotated accordingly. However the common picture of a sample of molecules undergoing angular momentum at expense of linear momentum as per physics laws means less random collisions of molecules per unit time translating as a loss of temperature. So it seems to me that if an electric effect is made in phase with a magnetic at right angles a temperature effect should be noted. Just a idea. H Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 23 01:20:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA25132; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:15:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:15:41 -0700 Message-Id: <199810230817.EAA31834@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: White Pampas Grass/Cortaderia selloanna Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:17:43 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6PNAk2.0.c86.ii3Cs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7235 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: These are very small seeds from New Zealand. Am combining with sand in a salt shaker for germination. A good money crop. Any advice is appreciated. It looks like enough to populate the whole planet! H. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 23 04:26:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA27326; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:25:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:25:19 -0700 Message-ID: <363074BF.EEB71773@harti.com> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:21:19 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: low grade heat to electricity converter ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TRmLY3.0.ug6.UU6Cs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7236 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HiAll, I just updated my page: http://www.overunity.com/zaev I also corrected an error from me: The voltage of the cap must RAISE during the gap time period of course and NOT fall ! I guess we are on the right track now finally ! :) I think, we will soon have low grade heat to elecricity converters this way ! Thanks again ! Regards, Stefan. Here are some comments from Tim Vaughan( tv@juno.com ) with my rumblings: Barium Titanate is a material that changes its epsilon (dielectric "constant") with temperature so it might be what we are looking for. See upper graphics Fig.2 When I consider what might be possible with an ferroelectric material, I have to think in a mechanical way. As I understand it, the heat effects involving a ferroelectric material are similar to what happens with some ferromagnetic and paramagnetic materials. Yes, Sergey also reported, that it also works with using ferromagnetic material ! When some materials are put in a magnetic field they give up heat, or get hotter. Where does the heat come from ? Perhaps it easier to understand if you think in a mechanical way. When a magnetic field is applied it causes alignment of spins in the material and in so doing , it reduces the freedom of motion that the molecules of the material have available and so it loses some capacity to hold heat energy. Therefore, at least most of the heat energy released was previously stored in the material. Also, work was done on the material to align the spins, this also stores more energy in the material. Yes. that is the charge process in the upper experiment ! Is it possible to order ambient energy with a ferroelectric material ? I think the answer is yes. The random fluctuations of heat energy are good at disorganizing weak molecular scale structures, so it seems that a good way to convert low grade ambient energy to high grade potential energy would be to use some process where heat can do the work of disorganizing a structure that results in the storage of potential energy in some way. The most obvious way to do this would be to use heat to disorder the ionic displacements in the dielectric material of a charged capacitor. This is exactly what happens when the capacitor is charged and the temperature has cooled down again to its working point during the gap time period. The dielectricum "sucks" in low grade heat from the environment and disorders the displacement of the ionics inside the dielectricum and thereby changing the epsilon. With the nonlinear capacitor converter, the ambient heat energy would in effect be doing the work of pulling the plates apart, not by actually pulling the plates apart, but by decreasing the ability of the dielectric to store a charge displacement ! Another fact is that the heat energy is constantly trying to destroy the order in the dielectric so that heat will also do work to oppose the initial ordering that is required for the cycle to begin. This is why epsilon is decreasing again when the capacitor is charged, which raises its stored energy ! So low grade heat is raising the stored electrical energy W= 0.5CV^2 ! This would be a thermally driven parametric generator or charge pump. If you charge a parallel plate capacitor, and then pull the plates apart, you do work on the capacitor that results in increase in stored electrical energy. The Wimhurst electrostatic generator works by this principle. That is right. So in this moment the heat works for us instead of working against us. It helps disorder the dielectricum (changing its epsilon) and thereby converting heat into higher electrical energy, which can be extracted, when we discharge the capacitor ! We have a right turning energy conversion process, which outputs energy ! This is NOT a left turning conversion process which usually consumes energy ! -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 23 13:10:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA17701; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:04:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:04:41 -0700 Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 04:06:03 +0200 Message-Id: <199810240206.EAA31045@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: WDBAUER@pop3.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: "Stefan Hartmann" , freenrg-l , Newman-L Mailing List From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) Subject: Re: low grade heat to electricity converter ! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA17673 Resent-Message-ID: <"wIK5Z.0.SK4.O5ECs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7237 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a last message from Stefan and Tim Vaughn is written about the low grade heat to electricity converter of Sergey: > > Perhaps it easier to understand if you think in a >mechanical way. When > a magnetic field is applied it causes alignment >of spins in the material > and in so doing , it reduces the freedom of >motion that the molecules of > the material have available and so it loses some >capacity to hold heat energy. > Therefore, at least most of the heat energy released was >previously stored in the material. > Also, work was done on the material to >align the spins, > this also stores more energy in the >material. > > Yes. that is the charge process in the >upper experiment ! > > > Is it possible to order ambient energy with a >ferroelectric material ? > I think the answer is yes. > > The random fluctuations of heat energy are good >at disorganizing > weak molecular scale structures, so it seems that >a good way to convert > low grade ambient energy to high grade potential >energy would be to > use some process where heat can do the work of >disorganizing a > structure that results in the storage of >potential energy in some way. > The most obvious way to do this would be to use heat >to disorder the > ionic displacements in the dielectric material of a >charged capacitor. > > This is exactly what happens when the >capacitor is charged and > the temperature has cooled down again to its working >point during the gap time period. Until this point the comments are ok. Now some misunderstanding occurs. > > The dielectricum "sucks" in low grade heat from the >environment and disorders the displacement > of the ionics inside the dielectricum and thereby >changing the epsilon. > That is wrong! In this phase the dielectrics gives off heat! We have a heat influx after the discharge process. I know that this seems to be paradoxial but it is not because in thermodynamics the energy balance is fulfilled only after one complete cycle. If you go from A to B and the cycle is not closed the energy balance with environment has not to be fullfilled because the system itself can store up energy in itself and can give off stored up energy as well. To illustrate this you have to think on the behavior of water under 4 °C as working medium. If you cool it down then it expands and gives off mechanical energy, i.e. dW<0.. As well it gives off its its heat i.e. dQ<0. Therefore, energy balance dW + dQ is not zero as long as you you go from A to B and do not close the cycle. Problems like that are the cause why the thermodynamic formulas are potentials. > bla bla bla The rest of the message is ok. Best regards Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 23 17:37:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA23578; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 17:31:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 17:31:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199810240029.UAA00364@surfergirl.spacey.net> Reply-To: From: "dwenbert" To: Subject: Re: Splitting Water Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 20:30:35 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XdUnz2.0.Cm5.o_HCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7238 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > I will construct the following system under PC control: > > 1. Fill the electrolysis vessel by opening a solenoid valve to a preset > level. > 2. Measure the weight of the water and container and the water temperature. > 3. Choose a quasi-random frequency pattern > 4. Supply current to the electrolysis vessel using the pattern at stage 3 > for ten minutes > 5. Measure the weight of the water and container again to determine the > amount of water that has been 'liberated' > 6. Use an AI algorithm to modify the frequency pattern chosen at stage 3 > 7. Repeat from stage 1 > > I will then leave this system running until a 'best' emerges for the > splitting. > > I now need the following information. > > What material(s) and configuration should I use for the electrodes? > What 'kind' of water should I use? > Should I add an electrolyte? Is so, what? > > I have read that low-voltage DC is commonly used. > Is there any particular reason for this? > Would current reversal extend the electrode life? > What is meant by low voltage DC? 1V, 100V? David: I'm working on developing a similar test setup. So far the most useful thing I've seen on any of the Meyer/Brown work has been the following short paper and its schematics. It gives the resonant frequencies used by Meyer for the high voltage, low current, high frequency pulsed DC required for the effect to operate, together with the materials and geometry of the construction. Go Here: http://members.spree.com/aerp/free-energy/dan1.html Use tap water with no added salts. I am going to use a television flyback transformer for the high voltage, possibly shunted through the magnetron tube from a microwave oven, to deliver the pulsed HF to the electrodes (2.45GHz). The gas evolved will be injected directly (without storage) into a lawnmower engine, turning a modified lawn sprinkler pump motor, acting as a generator. /David David L. Wenbert Great Power & Light Co. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 23 17:52:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA30435; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 17:51:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 17:51:33 -0700 From: mindtech@nor.com.au Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981024112007.00745340@pophost.nor.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 11:20:07 +1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Nonlinear capacitor converter In-Reply-To: References: <362FB505.B2CD883B@harti.com> <362BEB49.A5D7A425@harti.com> <19981021.133023.10870.2.tv@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"xUmJ-2.0.TR7.KIICs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7239 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >This sounds like an efficient variation of the T. Townsend Brown style >capacitor charging setups I played with a while ago. > >Rick Monteverde > Since you seem to be one of those doing practical exps in this area, I would like to suggest something I mentioned to another subscriber a few months ago. It is my understanding that, under certain conditions, the dielectric "levitators" self-rotate. It is very likely TTB also observed this phenomenon, which signifies a compensatory inertial response to polarization. My simple suggestion is that such an assemblage be mechanically spun, at high speed, _counter_ to its observed natural rotation, thereby gaining leverage upon the force creating the effect. The result may be a measurable weight loss. What do you think? Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 23 18:28:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA07863; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 18:27:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 18:27:24 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981024105839.008b9340@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 10:58:39 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re: tesla experiments Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"sC0c6.0.mw1.xpICs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7240 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HI ALL Just added some info about Tesla and his method of transmitting electrical energy without wire. Have also added some simple expeirments you can try for yourself using his ideas http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/tesla2.html http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/tesla3.html http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/newstuf2.html Geoff Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 23 18:42:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA15152; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 18:40:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 18:40:43 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981024111148.008c0de0@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 11:11:48 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re:Can you find the answer this natural activity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"_ZU3n3.0.di3.Q0JCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7241 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: HI ALL I have just seen this happen and found it interesting. But I won't tell you straight away and want you to think what it could be. What I saw was related to Viktor Schauber. The question is what will rise up against gravity when something is falling around it from above?. A similiar activity is carried in nature every day in some parts of thw world. The answer is not heat or sunlight or wind related and you can do the experiment for yourself. Information relating to the answer can be found at my solaris website although total details are not there. I will be interested in what you think it is Geoff Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 23 19:59:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA03942; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 19:56:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 19:56:50 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981023163837.00898440@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:38:37 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Vortex turbines Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qRGct.0.Qz.m7KCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7242 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The simple logic behind seeking over unity in vortex technology. There has been for many centuries the quest to prove vortex technology contains evidence of over unity effects, but have you ever wondered why this phenomenon was selected for study in the first place? Simple experiment from the 1700s points the way. Take a bowl of large size, and provide a central drain. Fill the conical bowl with water, and mark the level on the side of the bowl. Start a small eddy to initiate the vortex spin for your particular geographic orientation to the poles of the earth. As the vortex swirl of the escaping water begins to pick up you will see the level begin to rise on the sides of the bowl. The displacement of the water that surpasses the original level on the bowl is the amount of additional potential energy in mass lifted to a higher elevation. Thus increased potential energy. Do not discount the minor amount if displacement, if it were to be as small as 1% this still would point to the possibility of over unity. Other investigators took this a step further installing small paddle wheals into the sides of larger vessels trying to extract power from the vortex movement, by a system of clockwork gears, to then pump and refill the first vessel from the lower reservoir. All such attempts failed and subsequently ran down, but a curious and interesting research none the less. Another thing to consider, over unity aside: Could it be that we could design large, regulated discharge, vortex turbines, that would extract more energy from small hydro dynamic effects, such as a were fed system that would only have to be a few feet high of head pressure, rather than the many hundreds of feet that is associated with conventional hydroelectric facilities? Rather than creating large damns that eventually silt up, could we install a innumerable amount of turbines, in the sides of a descending water course? These power stations designed to be set into the sides of the canyons, and the cuts and construction of the wears and piping of the head systems, set in the rivers canyon walls to eventually be healed over by nature. These designs minimizing the disruption of the natural beauty of the river course, yet providing greater sources of clean, free energy to all? One thing is for sure, fish could still be able live in these rivers. One thing you need to research when considering a vote on a new damn project, is who owns the land around the new proposed lake and who are the recipients of the concessions that will dot the new lake, and the profits made from the power sold. Long questions Huh! TR Knudtson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 23 20:17:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA11883; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 20:14:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 20:14:33 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981024112007.00745340@pophost.nor.com.au> References: <362FB505.B2CD883B@harti.com> <362BEB49.A5D7A425@harti.com> <19981021.133023.10870.2.tv@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 17:12:57 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Nonlinear capacitor converter Resent-Message-ID: <"FoAaP3.0.Xv2.NOKCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7243 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Peter - > Since you seem to be one of those doing practical exps in > this area, I would like to suggest something I mentioned > to another subscriber a few months ago. > > It is my understanding that, under certain conditions, > the dielectric "levitators" self-rotate. It is very likely > TTB also observed this phenomenon, which signifies a > compensatory inertial response to polarization. > > My simple suggestion is that such an assemblage be > mechanically spun, at high speed, _counter_ to its > observed natural rotation, thereby gaining leverage > upon the force creating the effect. The result may be a > measurable weight loss. > > What do you think? I think I'm not sure what a dielectric levitator is. Do you mean those umbrella shaped things TTB tested with HV? I've heard/read the rumors that spinning things like that when charged to HV causes an increased effect. However my HV generator is just a Workbench Queen, sitting unfinished for much longer than I'd care to admit. I'll try spinning things if I ever get the generator up and running. Another victim of the great Alien Procrastination Ray, beamed at anyone who might be about to uncover the secret of UFO drives. One of the reasons I began to look for effects at low voltage is that the bother of dealing with HV coupling to the earth, sky, buildings, trees, people, and everything else within 100' or more is eliminated. People sometimes don't realize that an imperceptible movement of air or very tiny induced charge attraction summed over a large volume of matter can produce many of the weight loss characteristics seen in such experiments. And they're essentially impossible to eliminate as a practical matter. Nulling them out quantitatively using certain comparitive experiments might be promising though. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 23 20:44:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA21504; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 20:41:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 20:41:26 -0700 From: UNIR2B1@aol.com Message-ID: <5953c237.36314c08@aol.com> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:39:52 EDT To: piercemark@hotmail.com, markland@rockisland.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, UFOLAWYER1@aol.com, Terri Schoolden , lkvp@mail.awod.com, Sharon , Carolyn , PetMagic@aol.com, johnhoffman@webtv.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: 'PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY' forming! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"Ufz7y3.0.rF5.bnKCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7244 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi-- I'm receiving some fanatastic replies; I'll post them imminently. In the meantime, this opportunity should be broadcasted maximally in order to generate the greatest number of respondents from which to choose. Therefore, please relay to me any & all email lists/addresses that might be relevant. Thanks! Regards, Russ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 23 23:38:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA04130; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:37:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:37:07 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <2c0ac5e9.363175d2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:38:10 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: egel@main.murray.net.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: tesla experiments Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA04114 Resent-Message-ID: <"QPvT_.0.S01.JMNCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7245 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dans un courrier daté du 24/10/98 03:30:38é), egel@main.murray.net.au a écrit : > > Just added some info about Tesla and his method of transmitting electrical > energy without wire. > > Have also added some simple expeirments you can try for yourself using > his ideas >http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/tesla2.html Hi Geoff and All, Thank you very much for your update informations about the Tesla works on LMD experiments. I have also reproduced successfully these experiment according to Eric Dollard (from the BSRA team) advices showed in the video. You will find all details, diagrams and pictures for a successfull test also in my web site at : http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/lmdtem.htm For going further in the exploration the Tesla's technologies, you will find also in my web site, some informations about the Nikola Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter and his principle at: http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/tmt.htm I think that this will interest you, Keep up your good work. Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 24 04:10:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA11913; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 04:09:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 04:09:45 -0700 Message-ID: <005f01bdffa5$0573be00$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Can I Find Your Website? Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 00:21:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"B_V8T1.0.xv2.sLRCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7246 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Geoff I have never been able to connect to your website since you first posted its address. IE4.0 always returns with: "The server did not respond." Best regards David Callaghan -----Original Message----- From: GEOFF EGEL >http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 24 11:48:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA10616; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 11:46:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 11:46:46 -0700 Message-ID: <36322062.F0F7708F@zippnet.net> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 11:45:54 -0700 From: pat weissleader Reply-To: lizardhaven@zippnet.net Organization: lizardhaven X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: left over hipy from the 60's joins the list! References: <5953c237.36314c08@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VHzGk2.0.jb2.L2YCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7248 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: hello, i am new on the list, sucked in by a post about some wheel with containers of propane that keep moving by heat. i'm not sure just what i could gain from one but i have temperature differential that won't quit. it did occur to me that if i could use propane in stead of ammonia in a solar refrigeration project, i would not have to worry about corrosion in the system since stuff for propane is already invented. i should mention that i am mathematically challenged and can only deal in concepts, but i am a firm believer that avoiding mathematic masturbation may mean that you don't have enough fun unless you really make something that works.in any case i have been off the grid for 9 years on PV, and i did it all by myslef and nothing blew up. but like a blind person who needs others to identify colors for him i have to ask you people who know technical stuff if the plans i am working on have any glaring errors that will end up killing me. here is my current idea for solar refrigeration-keep in mind that the idea is to set up the thing and see how much cold i get, then adjust the amount of coolant and/or system size, until nothing freezes and breaks the container or rots. first-is propane a reasonable equivalent to ammonia (think in terms of the old icy ball system). now think of a tank of propane on the roof, one that works sideways which i just happen to have around, (do i have to take anything out of the tank for the gas to flow freely back and forth?) then you have an amount of propane to be determined later, and a line, maybe flexible with fittings, put together by hose man, and later threaded iron, coming off the tank horizontal to the roof and going down into the wall (luckily i put an extra vent hole or two up there, properly roofed) it goes down into an insulated box (full of water at least at first)and a smaller propane tank like for back packers. now you go to pick and save and get those long pool toys that are like brghtly colored pipe insulation, twice as thick and half the price, and put it on the line almost the whole length. so the sun heats the tank, the gas goes into the line and is cooled enough to drip down into the inside smal tank, being just the right amount to not blow up. if all the stuff i read that sounds really improbably is true, at night when it gets cold outside, the liquid in the small tank will suck all the heat out of the water in the insulated box, and the amount of water adjusted so that it will get colder or hopefully freeze if i am lucky and this plan is not too far off base. taking that heat makes the stff go into gas and go back to the big tank on the roof, lured by the lower temperature (lower than it was during the day-not lower than the ice. as far as i can tell it is the reduced pressure on the roof that realy lures it up there, but as long as it works it is best i don't worry too much about why-it would give me a headache) so if it gets colder at all, i can adjust the efficiency by extending the length of the pipe or the amount of the propane? or the size of the box. any advise on this plan is welcome. -- Patricia Weissleader at Lizardhaven Ranch 'where the critter meets the glitter' From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 24 17:13:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA06829; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:11:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:11:46 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981024112216.0089a790@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 11:22:16 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Hydrogen gap Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"y9sbY3.0.dg1.1pcCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7249 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: GEE! Nothing about hydrogen for 4 days. Is everyone on vacation? TR Knudtson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 24 17:31:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA10000; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:21:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:21:18 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981025105236.008cb1d0@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 10:52:36 +1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re: Can I Find Your Website? In-Reply-To: <005f01bdffa5$0573be00$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"kB2b81.0.8S2.zxcCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7250 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:21 AM 10/25/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Geoff > >I have never been able to connect to your website since you first posted its >address. IE4.0 always returns with: > >"The server did not respond." > > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > >-----Original Message----- >From: GEOFF EGEL >>http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 > > >might need to add the www thanks for letting me know it should work now Like to hear from You Geoff http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 24 17:39:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA17982; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:36:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:36:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199810250038.UAA18325@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: Hydrogen gap Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 15:39:12 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GK7CD.0.sO4.7AdCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7251 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am going to use 3/8 inch HDPE welded together to hold 60 6 in by 6in stainless steel plates for an series type electrolysizor. My high frequency leak detector just came in today. I am using a plastic (polyethelene) welder to form this box like structure. Do you see any problems with using this material instead of PVC? What temperature might I expect from a DC pulse method as in browns gas. I am pulsing in the hundreds of thousands/sec. Am trying to rectify a 166,000 ac input. Any ideas of temperature problems? How hot does a browns gas device get? Is 250 nanosec recovery time on diodes not fast enough? This might potentially interfere with 1/12 of the pulse duration. Any info is appreciated. Sincerely HDN mnorris@akron.infi.net ---------- > From: trknute@earthlink.net > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Hydrogen gap > Date: Saturday, October 24, 1998 1:22 PM > > GEE! Nothing about hydrogen for 4 days. Is everyone on vacation? > > TR Knudtson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 24 17:57:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA23312; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:54:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:54:04 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Vortex turbines Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 00:55:30 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <363375fc.92307235@24.192.1.20> References: <3.0.5.32.19981023163837.00898440@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981023163837.00898440@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WMY4m1.0.2i5.hQdCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7252 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:38:37 -0700, trknute@earthlink.net wrote: [snip] >Simple experiment from the 1700s points the way. Take a bowl of large >size, and provide a central drain. Fill the conical bowl with water, and >mark the level on the side of the bowl. Start a small eddy to initiate the >vortex spin for your particular geographic orientation to the poles of the >earth. As the vortex swirl of the escaping water begins to pick up you >will see the level begin to rise on the sides of the bowl. The displacement >of the water that surpasses the original level on the bowl is the amount of >additional potential energy in mass lifted to a higher elevation. Thus >increased potential energy. Do not discount the minor amount if >displacement, if it were to be as small as 1% this still would point to the >possibility of over unity. [snip] Not necessarily. The energy to lift a small amount of water above its starting position can come from a larger amount falling below its starting position. A simple analogy: A beam placed asymmetrically on a fulcrum, with equal masses on each end. When released the mass on the "long" end of the beam will fall, raising the mass on the short end above its starting position. OU ? - obviously not. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 24 17:58:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA24717; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:56:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:56:49 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981025112806.008c7100@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 11:28:06 +1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re: Photos for running car on orgone energy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"_cRrx3.0.226.GTdCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7253 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: HI ALL I have just added some photosfrom the experimenter who claims to be able to run his car on orgone energy. The photos shown are from a test device he claims ran the car as shown on my web page could be of interest to some on this list http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/orgone.htm Geoff http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 24 18:00:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA26138; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:58:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:58:25 -0700 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981024112216.0089a790@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 21:04:02 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: Hydrogen gap Resent-Message-ID: <"dlcx22.0.2O6.lUdCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7254 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >GEE! Nothing about hydrogen for 4 days. Is everyone on vacation? > >TR Knudtson I posted some questions and ideas a few days ago for you but didn't get a response... Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 24 19:08:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA22895; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 19:07:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 19:07:41 -0700 Message-ID: <00b001bdffbc$205f6860$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Cc: Subject: Re: tesla experiments Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 21:40:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"bzCyP.0.eb5.iVeCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7255 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What are the maximum distances you think will be achievable? >> Just added some info about Tesla and his method of transmitting electrical >> energy without wire. >> >> Have also added some simple expeirments you can try for yourself using >> his ideas >>http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/tesla2.html > >Hi Geoff and All, > >Thank you very much for your update informations about the Tesla works on LMD >experiments. I have also reproduced successfully these experiment according to >Eric Dollard (from the BSRA team) advices showed in the video. You will find >all details, diagrams and pictures for a successfull test also in my web site >at : > >http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/lmdtem.htm > >For going further in the exploration the Tesla's technologies, you will find >also in my web site, some informations about the Nikola Tesla's Magnifying >Transmitter and his principle at: > >http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/tmt.htm > >I think that this will interest you, >Keep up your good work. > >Sincerely, > >Jean-Louis Naudin > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 24 20:35:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA17240; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 20:33:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 20:33:22 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981024141144.0089b720@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:11:44 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Vortex turbines In-Reply-To: <363375fc.92307235@24.192.1.20> References: <3.0.5.32.19981023163837.00898440@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981023163837.00898440@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"A5-952.0.ID4.0mfCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7256 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin You must know by now that I am not a supporter of OU research, but here is where your example breaks down. One, a fixed in space, point of resistance or support, "a fulcrum" would have no relevance in a fluid medium, as fluid seeks its own level. Your example presupposes asymmetry, fluid dynamics are inherently symmetric. You have imposed an invalid criterion in your evaluation. Second, the energy is centrifugal force is the source of the water lifting on the sides of the vessel. The spin of the vortex self generates the force that lifts the water. I love you all the same. (Smile) The difficulty in making calculations of fluid systems, lies not in our ability to invasion the effects, but that we use angular math. Even in the case of calculating through vector analyses we are but taking momentary snapshots the approximate the roundness of reality. We need fluid math, or round math, to calculate, a three dimensional world. This is best demonstrated when theorizing the finite nature of the universe, with reference to the big bang theory. If you look at the ratios where a sphere doubles in volume, you will see that the diameter, proportionately decreases at each doubling of the volume. Our universe is truly finite. As to move to the next order of volume it would require twice the total energy emitted in the original big bang, thus doubling the current day total volume. Further, if you then construct a projection of a time line of constant rate of progression and factor in the vector deviations of doubling, you will obtain a perfect symmetrical spiral. Have you ever looked at the concentric spirals of the tracks left by subatomic particles in the blast patterns of collisions accelerated particles and wondered about the perfect symmetry, spiral traces of those tiny, subatomic particles? As in the very small, so in the very large! TR Knudtson At 12:55 AM 10/25/98 GMT, you wrote: >On Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:38:37 -0700, trknute@earthlink.net wrote: >[snip] >>Simple experiment from the 1700s points the way. Take a bowl of large >>size, and provide a central drain. Fill the conical bowl with water, and >>mark the level on the side of the bowl. Start a small eddy to initiate the >>vortex spin for your particular geographic orientation to the poles of the >>earth. As the vortex swirl of the escaping water begins to pick up you >>will see the level begin to rise on the sides of the bowl. The displacement >>of the water that surpasses the original level on the bowl is the amount of >>additional potential energy in mass lifted to a higher elevation. Thus >>increased potential energy. Do not discount the minor amount if >>displacement, if it were to be as small as 1% this still would point to the >>possibility of over unity. >[snip] >Not necessarily. The energy to lift a small amount of water above its >starting position can come from a larger amount falling below its >starting position. >A simple analogy: A beam placed asymmetrically on a fulcrum, with >equal masses on each end. When released the mass on the "long" end of >the beam will fall, raising the mass on the short end above its >starting position. OU ? - obviously not. > > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 24 20:47:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA22235; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 20:46:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 20:46:27 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981024142454.00894250@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:24:54 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free energy In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19981016161947.008919f0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981016010746.0088d420@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981015181556.007cc100@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"RreIz1.0.LR5.IyfCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7257 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Richard, Is this the post???? Please try to ask a few specific questions at the head of the text. It is nice to include the thread text at the botom, but keep up the good work, and ask away. TR Knudtson At 10:15 PM 10/20/98 -0500, you wrote: > >>Using this technology of both hydrogen and Hydroxy I have made electrical >>storage systems, smelted and produced steels from ore, produced synthetic >>gemstones of superior hardness, produced hydrogen and oxygen from stone, >>welded aluminum, and other metals in a total vacuum, glazed ceramics while >>I held them in my hand, hardened steels to near diamond toughness. On and on. > >** >Are there sites on the net that explain these uses and how to manage them safely? TRK NO! > >> >>Evaluating storage. >> >>With the advent is Kevlar materials, much stronger than steel, I would see >>an array of cylinders of this substance, arranged in a in vertical >>orientation, and in common manifold with the production cell mounted below. >> The water that is a byproduct of electrical conversion, could then drain >>back into the electrolyzer By gravity. The emitter plates of the fuel >>cells could then be incorporated into the upper ends of the storage >>cylinders. Proper electrolyte levels could insure gaseous seal one storage >>cylinder to the other. All of this has been done and tested, in PVC mind >>you. But the critical need still remains for a system of equalization one >>storage cylinder to another. The rapid burn rate of Hydroxy is such that >>we have not found any type of check valve that can close fast enough to >>stop flash over of the storage cylinders. The answer may be that just the >>total integrity of the unit need be sufficient to sustain a complete >>flashback of the unit. At that point small equalizer tubes would be all >>that would be needed. > >** >Long tubes could be buried at a slight incline and achieve the effect of draining water for recovery... and could be buried easily. TRK YES! > >If there is flash back is there an explosion or implosion? >Would the heat expand the inside so fast as to make equalizer tubes ineffective? I don't really understand the equalizer tubes and how they would be used. If the storage is under pressure equalization is automatic is it not? >Does it increase or decrease the risk when pressurized? >>>How would you pressurized the storage? At what pressure? >>>What voltage & amperage is provided by a fuel cell? > >> >>The other solution is that a single unit be constructed that allows, for >>the multiplexing of units electrically. >> >>I favor the later, as then an individual could size their electrical >>demands and order X number of cells. The critical factor of such a design >>is that the multiplexed single cell concept, would then have no moving >>parts to break or malfunction. Assembled much like a multi-celled battery >>these units could then be connected in such a way to supply any voltage >>required. Allowing for electrical production of the storage gas and the >>spontaneous supply of electrical output, ...snip > >** this is a very attractive aspect... > >> >>If this system is to be used primarily for a single home, lighting can be >>found in any number of voltages. In the case of Halogen, 22 and 12 Volts >>are common and produces a full spectrum light. Florescent was originally >>designed to work on low voltage current, by Tesla, and incandescent is the >>most adaptable in that it is a purely resistive load and will work on any >>voltage and are commercially available in all Voltages in common base >>diameters. As far as 110 Volt appliances, the most efficient way to >>obtain this current is through electronic inversion, inverters are >>available in a vast array of Wattage's. >> >>At current prices of solar panels, you should be prepared to spend about >>$2,000.00 for a significant system. >>Keep in mind that the electrical demand for a home is much lower during the >>day if you factor out air-conditioning costs. Ground effect >>air-conditioning is probably the answer here, but a total home built system >>should not cost over $5,000.00 . The fact that solar cells, the primary >>component of this system, last for many decades, I find this cost to be a >>valued solution to conventional energy sourcing, not to mention the aspect >>of being totally non polluting, and allowing for complete energy independence. > >** >Solar panels are not trouble free and do have a limited life (30 years or so?) and are prone to catastrophic damage from hail, wind and other weathering factors. I am considering a stirling engine charger run using dried cellulose wastes for fuel (solar in another form), which could potentially be much cheaper and allow charging at any time (not without fueling and starting however). TRK BUY INSURANCE! TRK Brazil already develops a large portion of its electrical needs by utilizing the celulose byproduct of sugar cane production. > >> >>Considering the vast savings in high volume manufacturing, I see a day >>where this system would be available commercially for $2,000.00. >> >>All the best >> >>TR Knudtson >> > > >Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU >Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 24 20:52:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA24156; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 20:51:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 20:51:04 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981024142932.00894250@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:29:32 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrogen gap In-Reply-To: <199810250038.UAA18325@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"SyxaW3.0.Hv5.e0gCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7258 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:39 PM 10/23/98 -0500, you wrote: Good work, This should work. just as long as it can hold a few pounds pressure without leaking. If you obtain heat that is indicating waste energy. lower your voltage and test again. All the best TR Knudtson I am going to use 3/8 inch HDPE welded together to hold 60 6 in by 6in >stainless steel plates for an series type electrolysizor. My high frequency >leak detector just came in today. I am using a plastic (polyethelene) >welder to form this box like structure. Do you see any problems with using >this material instead of PVC? What temperature might I expect from a DC >pulse method as in browns gas. I am pulsing in the hundreds of >thousands/sec. Am trying to rectify a 166,000 ac input. Any ideas of >temperature problems? How hot does a browns gas device get? Is 250 nanosec >recovery time on diodes not fast enough? This might potentially interfere >with 1/12 of the pulse duration. Any info is appreciated. >Sincerely HDN mnorris@akron.infi.net > >---------- >> From: trknute@earthlink.net >> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> Subject: Hydrogen gap >> Date: Saturday, October 24, 1998 1:22 PM >> >> GEE! Nothing about hydrogen for 4 days. Is everyone on vacation? >> >> TR Knudtson > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 24 22:04:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA12224; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 22:02:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 22:02:58 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981024154125.00899720@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 15:41:25 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Hydrogen safety Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"NFpR81.0.w-2.14hCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7259 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The use of hydrogen to augment the burn in internal combustion motors. In the 60s, I was enamored by motorcycle racing of all kinds. I especially liked drag racing. I was beginning my work in hydrogen fuels so it was a natural to seek to adapt this technology to my love of racing. I was too young to race in the modified fuel classes, but I was able to enter modified, normal carburetor class races. What I did do is to modify a conventional motor cycle engine, to accept pure hydrogen, injected just after the carburetor, by drilling and taping a brass orifice inlet, directly into the intake manifold. I did this on a 1948 Triumph, Cub, a twin cylinder, single carb. 500 cc semi stock bike. On that bike the gas tank was of a saddle type, with two lobes of gasoline storage. By cutting one side out, I was able to form a compartment to hide a pressurized tank of pure hydrogen. I used a spring closed valve to control the flow of the hydrogen to the inlet and operated the valve by means of a string tied to my clutch hand, middle finger. I found right away that the bike could not idle well, and at low RPMs it would back fire to beat the band, but at high RPM it ran like a stripped ass ape! Not exact science here. After a few weeks of testing and getting used to the controls, I went entered in an amateur race at the local strip. In those days it was not the race that was the main point of my interest, but rather the side bet money that went on. Securing several large bets totaling some $500 odd dollars, a lot of money to me, after all I think I had paid less than $150, for the bike itself. Foolishly secure in my bets, I ran the race. The main problem was that I had never yet tried the bike out at maximum power. About 3/4 of the distance down the track the engine let loose sending a part of the piston rod, through the rear tire, a mass of flesh and steel went through the timing lights at about 134 miles per hour. I was not hurt bad, but still bear a scar on my left thigh where the hydrogen flame had continued to burn out the side of the carburetor intake, as I slid to a stop, atop what was left of my bike Can you believe it, they had this funny rule that to qualify for a win, you had to be on the bike? I also had cheated in one other way. I did not own a set of required leathers, so I had borrowed a set of cheaper, imitation leathers to enter the race. The never discovered the pressure, tank welded into the side of the gas tank, but did ban me from the track for violating rider protection safety rules. If they only knew. By the way, I learned my lesson. It took me nearly three months to heal and an equal time to pay of the financial debts of that day. All the best TR Knudtson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 24 22:42:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA20476; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 22:42:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 22:42:02 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01be003e$9d4e9da0$a837a8cf@dwenbert.spacey.net> Reply-To: "dwenbert" From: "dwenbert" To: Subject: Re: Hydrogen gap Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 12:40:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"1grkB3.0.s_4.gehCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7260 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >pulse method as in browns gas. I am pulsing in the hundreds of >thousands/sec. Am trying to rectify a 166,000 ac input. Any ideas of >temperature problems? How hot does a browns gas device get? Is 250 nanosec >recovery time on diodes not fast enough? This might potentially interfere >with 1/12 of the pulse duration. Any info is appreciated. >Sincerely HDN mnorris@akron.infi.net Here is what Danforth had to say about the resonant frequencies for H2O electrolysis used successfully by Stan Meyer: "There are two primary frequencies that produce the best results. They are. 14372 Hz and 43430 Hz. The former is about 50% more efficient, but it seems that just about any frequency between 9 KHz and 143762 KHz works quite well. 1) This is because the nature of the wave form ( a spike ) is rich in harmonics and one of them is bound to be close to one of the two primary frequencies. Note: Sub-harmonics of the two primary frequencies at which dissociation will occur: 43430 Hz 143762 HZ SUBHARMONIC SUBHABMONIC 1st 21715 HZ 1st 71881 HZ 2nd 14476.67 HZ 2nd 47920.67 HZ 3rd 15517.5 HZ 3rd 35840.1 HZ 4th 8686 Hz 4th 28752.4 HZ *1500 VOLTS IS THE MINIMUM REQUIRED FOR MOLECULAR RINGING TO BEGIN. " Is there a possiblity you can adjust to these parameters and let us know what happens? David Wenbert Great Power & Light From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 24 23:21:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA29631; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 23:19:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 23:19:59 -0700 Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 23:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810250621.XAA27646@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Jed - well informed as ever Resent-Message-ID: <"nOO-n2.0.vE7.FCiCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7261 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Dennis and all, At 12:33 PM 10/24/98 -0400, you wrote: >Who knows? Maybe global warming is keeping the Antarctic polar icecap small >enough that the planetary alignment at 5/5/2000 won't tip the Earth's axis? >The wooly mammoths they found perfectly frozen in the arctic region suggests >that it has happened before. Once the icecap slips to the equator (in 3-4 >hours?), the velocity is calculated to be 16,000 mph. The atmosphere can't >keep up and everywhere except the pivot points gets exposed to the vacuum of >space. > Where would all this energy come from? Tha artic ice is floating so it has no "fall" to reach the equator. If it could fall 100 m, then its velocity would only be about 40m/s. If this was coupled to the whole earth, it would result in a very small velocity. ( angular momentum of ice ->angular momentum of ice +earth) 16,000mph sounds like close to the free fall (in vacuum) of an object to the center of the earth through a hypothetical clear path! -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 24 23:52:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA03881; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 23:51:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 23:51:57 -0700 Message-ID: <001901be0048$620b36e0$a837a8cf@dwenbert.spacey.net> Reply-To: "dwenbert" From: "dwenbert" To: Subject: Re: Hydrogen Engine Modifications Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 13:50:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"fWyG3.0.Uy.DgiCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7262 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >The use of hydrogen to augment the burn in internal combustion motors. > >In the 60s, I was enamored by motorcycle racing of all kinds. I especially >liked drag racing. I was beginning my work in hydrogen fuels so it was a >natural to seek to adapt this technology to my love of racing. I was too >young to race in the modified fuel classes, but I was able to enter >modified, normal carburetor class races. > >What I did do is to modify a conventional motor cycle engine, to accept >pure hydrogen, injected just after the carburetor, by drilling and taping a >brass orifice inlet, directly into the intake manifold. > >I did this on a 1948 Triumph, Cub, a twin cylinder, single carb. 500 cc >semi stock bike. >I found right >away that the bike could not idle well, and at low RPMs it would back fire >to beat the band, but at high RPM it ran like a stripped ass ape! Not >exact science here. We are preparing to modify three essentially identical lawnmower engines in the same manner, to run generators off of hydrogen derived from electrolytic and pyrolytic devices. Are there any more specifics that you can give us on the modification of small gasoline engines to run on pure hydrogen? Virtually any technical details of the conversion process and its performance would be helpful. David Wenbert Great Power & Light Co. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 00:41:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA10485; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 00:40:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 00:40:42 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 02:41:42 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: serjio@glasnet.ru, leoguitar@vossnet.de, harti@harti.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: The Zaev's generator - First test report avalaible from Sergei Godin Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Resent-Message-ID: <"6GTLd.0.kZ2.vNjCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7263 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear All, I have updated my web site with the first test report from Sergey Godin about the Nicolay Zaev's generator. You will find all details, pictures and diagrams at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/nzaevncp.htm Thank you again to Sergei for sharing these informations which are very helpfull and usefull for the researches of Free Energy. Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin Main Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 01:49:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA18850; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 01:47:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 01:47:02 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981024185428.00895cf0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 18:54:28 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: hydroxy experiments Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"2AZZg3.0.Nc4.6MkCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7264 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is another one, for those of you that are working with Hydroxy technologies. Remember I do not like over unity but rather am very interested in free of cost, non polluting forms of energy. When you begin to work with Hydroxy you will see right off that this is like no other heat source known to man. In the case of it's ability to change molecular and linking bonds of materials. Now much of what you heard is total crap but here is a very practical application that demonstrates a here to untapped source of free of cost energy. Take and slice the end of a conventional house brick, about 1/2' thick. Like you would slice it if it were a small loaf of bread. At diagonal corners slowly alloy into a pool of molten metal and silica, a iron rod at one corner and a brass rod at the other. This is not easy to do. Work the flame away slowly, allowing for the pool to cool slowly. If you obtain a good molecular bond, you will be soon able to tell, but if it seams firm with no shifting of crackling at the juncture you probably have done a good enough job of forming a bond. Now carefully lower the brick into a shallow pan of newly drawn tap water. Read with a volt meter, across the electrodes. That's right electrodes. You have just built a system that can tap the free ions of water, Direct voltage from water. You should register about 2.4 to 2.8 volts of DC potential. Free energy? Hell no! Nature has spent about a trillion Giga Watts of energy in the form for atmospheric energy to give you that power. Now take it a step further and construct an array of these cells, place them in a shallow tray and run your garden hose over them so that there is a slight flow to the tray in one direction. Experiment with parallel and series parallel connections. How much energy can you make this way? I don't know, how long is your river? Now will fallow the normal responses. Can algae attach itself the array thus negating the effects? There are no rivers near where I Live! What if a flood would come destroy the power station and wash the arrays down stream? Do you have any blueprints for a 2.4 megawatt power station using this technology. Where on the net can I find more information on these effects? All the best TR Knudtson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 01:53:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA26756; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 01:52:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 01:52:53 -0800 Message-ID: <3632F4F8.E2743DDA@GroupZ.net> Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 04:52:56 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: hydroxy experiments References: <3.0.5.32.19981024185428.00895cf0@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"J9q59.0.yX6.qJlCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7265 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: TR, MINE IS 150 MILES !!! Live on houseboat...if anyone would like to borrow my river let me know...do these have to be separated to get better voltage/current ?? thanks...steve trknute@earthlink.net wrote: > > Here is another one, for those of you that are working with Hydroxy > technologies. > > Remember I do not like over unity but rather am very interested in free of > cost, non polluting forms of energy. > > When you begin to work with Hydroxy you will see right off that this is > like no other heat source known to man. In the case of it's ability to > change molecular and linking bonds of materials. Now much of what you heard > is total crap but here is a very practical application that demonstrates a > here to untapped source of free of cost energy. > > Take and slice the end of a conventional house brick, about 1/2' thick. > Like you would slice it if it were a small loaf of bread. > > At diagonal corners slowly alloy into a pool of molten metal and silica, a > iron rod at one corner and a brass rod at the other. This is not easy to > do. Work the flame away slowly, allowing for the pool to cool slowly. > > If you obtain a good molecular bond, you will be soon able to tell, but if > it seams firm with no shifting of crackling at the juncture you probably > have done a good enough job of forming a bond. > > Now carefully lower the brick into a shallow pan of newly drawn tap water. > Read with a volt meter, across the electrodes. That's right electrodes. > You have just built a system that can tap the free ions of water, Direct > voltage from water. You should register about 2.4 to 2.8 volts of DC > potential. > > Free energy? Hell no! Nature has spent about a trillion Giga Watts of > energy in the form for atmospheric energy to give you that power. > > Now take it a step further and construct an array of these cells, place > them in a shallow tray and run your garden hose over them so that there is > a slight flow to the tray in one direction. Experiment with parallel and > series parallel connections. > > How much energy can you make this way? > > I don't know, how long is your river? > > Now will fallow the normal responses. > > Can algae attach itself the array thus negating the effects? > There are no rivers near where I Live! > What if a flood would come destroy the power station and wash the arrays > down stream? > Do you have any blueprints for a 2.4 megawatt power station using this > technology. > Where on the net can I find more information on these effects? > > All the best > > TR Knudtson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 02:47:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA01119; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 02:46:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 02:46:50 -0800 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981024204211.0089dc20@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 20:42:11 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: hydroxy experiments In-Reply-To: <3632F4F8.E2743DDA@GroupZ.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19981024185428.00895cf0@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"M6rMN.0.PH.P6mCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7266 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: No you do not realy need to seperate them by much because even a thin film of water will produce the effects. Make your test cells individualy then try differing conections of say, 24 cells. If you were to leave a single cell of this type in a pan of water, you will see that it will slowly discharge the ions in the pan over about an hour. This says to me that even a mild flow of water can be a source of continuas energy. if they do become covered with algae, try just a high pressure washer to clean the cells. At 04:52 AM 10/25/98 -0500, you wrote: >TR, MINE IS 150 MILES !!! Live on houseboat...if anyone >would like to borrow my river let me know...do these >have to be separated to get better voltage/current ?? >thanks...steve > > >trknute@earthlink.net wrote: >> >> Here is another one, for those of you that are working with Hydroxy >> technologies. >> >> Remember I do not like over unity but rather am very interested in free of >> cost, non polluting forms of energy. >> >> When you begin to work with Hydroxy you will see right off that this is >> like no other heat source known to man. In the case of it's ability to >> change molecular and linking bonds of materials. Now much of what you heard >> is total crap but here is a very practical application that demonstrates a >> here to untapped source of free of cost energy. >> >> Take and slice the end of a conventional house brick, about 1/2' thick. >> Like you would slice it if it were a small loaf of bread. >> >> At diagonal corners slowly alloy into a pool of molten metal and silica, a >> iron rod at one corner and a brass rod at the other. This is not easy to >> do. Work the flame away slowly, allowing for the pool to cool slowly. >> >> If you obtain a good molecular bond, you will be soon able to tell, but if >> it seams firm with no shifting of crackling at the juncture you probably >> have done a good enough job of forming a bond. >> >> Now carefully lower the brick into a shallow pan of newly drawn tap water. >> Read with a volt meter, across the electrodes. That's right electrodes. >> You have just built a system that can tap the free ions of water, Direct >> voltage from water. You should register about 2.4 to 2.8 volts of DC >> potential. >> >> Free energy? Hell no! Nature has spent about a trillion Giga Watts of >> energy in the form for atmospheric energy to give you that power. >> >> Now take it a step further and construct an array of these cells, place >> them in a shallow tray and run your garden hose over them so that there is >> a slight flow to the tray in one direction. Experiment with parallel and >> series parallel connections. >> >> How much energy can you make this way? >> >> I don't know, how long is your river? >> >> Now will fallow the normal responses. >> >> Can algae attach itself the array thus negating the effects? >> There are no rivers near where I Live! >> What if a flood would come destroy the power station and wash the arrays >> down stream? >> Do you have any blueprints for a 2.4 megawatt power station using this >> technology. >> Where on the net can I find more information on these effects? >> >> All the best >> >> TR Knudtson > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 03:06:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA04721; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 03:05:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 03:05:29 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 06:05:54 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: NZaev's generator - Additional informations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Resent-Message-ID: <"Wxgbx2.0.h91.uNmCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7267 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have added some additional informations from Sergei Godin about the dielectric specs of the Variconds in my web site at: http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/polcurves.htm Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 06:12:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA05076; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 06:11:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 06:11:25 -0800 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981025112806.008c7100@main.murray.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 09:12:42 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: Photos for running car on orgone energy Resent-Message-ID: <"9KWgu1.0.9F1.D6pCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7268 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >HI ALL > > >I have just added some photosfrom the experimenter who claims to be able to >run his car on orgone energy. > >The photos shown are from a test device he claims ran the car as shown on >my web page > >could be of interest to some on this list > >http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/orgone.htm > > > ... What is a BLANK fitting mentioned on the web site? Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 06:36:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA11121; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 06:35:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 06:35:11 -0800 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981024142454.00894250@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19981016161947.008919f0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981016010746.0088d420@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981015181556.007cc100@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 09:36:28 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: Free energy Resent-Message-ID: <"5Ip_I2.0.hj2.VSpCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7269 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes this is the post... I tried to mark the questions/comments with asterisks so they could be spotted easily and could refer to the text above. I'll try your idea and put them at the top, (it's a little difficult on a long post because the context of the question gets lost. >Dear Richard, > >Is this the post???? > >Please try to ask a few specific questions at the head of the text. > >It is nice to include the thread text at the botom, but keep up the good >work, and ask away. > >TR Knudtson > > >At 10:15 PM 10/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >> >>>Using this technology of both hydrogen and Hydroxy I have made electrical >>>storage systems, smelted and produced steels from ore, produced synthetic >>>gemstones of superior hardness, produced hydrogen and oxygen from stone, >>>welded aluminum, and other metals in a total vacuum, glazed ceramics while >>>I held them in my hand, hardened steels to near diamond toughness. On and >on. >> >>** >>Are there sites on the net that explain these uses and how to manage them >safely? > > >TRK NO! >> >>> >>>Evaluating storage. >>> >>>With the advent is Kevlar materials, much stronger than steel, I would see >>>an array of cylinders of this substance, arranged in a in vertical >>>orientation, and in common manifold with the production cell mounted below. >>> The water that is a byproduct of electrical conversion, could then drain >>>back into the electrolyzer By gravity. The emitter plates of the fuel >>>cells could then be incorporated into the upper ends of the storage >>>cylinders. Proper electrolyte levels could insure gaseous seal one storage >>>cylinder to the other. All of this has been done and tested, in PVC mind >>>you. But the critical need still remains for a system of equalization one >>>storage cylinder to another. The rapid burn rate of Hydroxy is such that >>>we have not found any type of check valve that can close fast enough to >>>stop flash over of the storage cylinders. The answer may be that just the >>>total integrity of the unit need be sufficient to sustain a complete >>>flashback of the unit. At that point small equalizer tubes would be all >>>that would be needed. >> >>** >>Long tubes could be buried at a slight incline and achieve the effect of >draining water for recovery... and could be buried easily. > > >TRK YES! >>** >>If there is flash back is there an explosion or implosion? >>Would the heat expand the inside so fast as to make equalizer tubes >ineffective? I don't really understand the equalizer tubes and how they >would be used. If the storage is under pressure equalization is automatic >is it not? >>Does it increase or decrease the risk when pressurized? >>>>How would you pressurized the storage (or does the electrolysis of the water pressurize it)? At what pressure? >>>>What voltage & amperage is provided by a fuel cell? >> >>> >>>The other solution is that a single unit be constructed that allows, for >>>the multiplexing of units electrically. >>> >>>I favor the later, as then an individual could size their electrical >>>demands and order X number of cells. The critical factor of such a design >>>is that the multiplexed single cell concept, would then have no moving >>>parts to break or malfunction. Assembled much like a multi-celled battery >>>these units could then be connected in such a way to supply any voltage >>>required. Allowing for electrical production of the storage gas and the >>>spontaneous supply of electrical output, ...snip >> >>** this is a very attractive aspect... >> >>> >>>If this system is to be used primarily for a single home, lighting can be >>>found in any number of voltages. In the case of Halogen, 22 and 12 Volts >>>are common and produces a full spectrum light. Florescent was originally >>>designed to work on low voltage current, by Tesla, and incandescent is the >>>most adaptable in that it is a purely resistive load and will work on any >>>voltage and are commercially available in all Voltages in common base >>>diameters. As far as 110 Volt appliances, the most efficient way to >>>obtain this current is through electronic inversion, inverters are >>>available in a vast array of Wattage's. >>> >>>At current prices of solar panels, you should be prepared to spend about >>>$2,000.00 for a significant system. >>>Keep in mind that the electrical demand for a home is much lower during the >>>day if you factor out air-conditioning costs. Ground effect >>>air-conditioning is probably the answer here, but a total home built system >>>should not cost over $5,000.00 . The fact that solar cells, the primary >>>component of this system, last for many decades, I find this cost to be a >>>valued solution to conventional energy sourcing, not to mention the aspect >>>of being totally non polluting, and allowing for complete energy >independence. >> >>** >>Solar panels are not trouble free and do have a limited life (30 years or >so?) and are prone to catastrophic damage from hail, wind and other >weathering factors. I am considering a stirling engine charger run using >dried cellulose wastes for fuel (solar in another form), which could >potentially be much cheaper and allow charging at any time (not without >fueling and starting however). > >TRK BUY INSURANCE! > >TRK Brazil already develops a large portion of its electrical needs by >utilizing the celulose byproduct of sugar cane production. >> >>> >>>Considering the vast savings in high volume manufacturing, I see a day >>>where this system would be available commercially for $2,000.00. >>> >>>All the best >>> >>>TR Knudtson >>> >> >> >>Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU >>Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at >http://user.icx.net/~richarda >> >> >> >> Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 06:48:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA13712; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 06:46:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 06:46:13 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19981025095419.00b0b200@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 09:54:22 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re: hydroxy experiments Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"2c-bR.0.AM3.rcpCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7270 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:54 PM 10/24/98 -0700, you wrote: >How much energy can you make this way? Excellent question. To answer, we need a few more facts. Short the cell, and measure the current. Now burden the cell with a resistor, and measure the voltage drop accross the resistor. Ideally, for the most power out, you'll want to match the internal resistance of the cell. Using a variable resistor and a voltmeter, you can easily chart power vs resistance. Look for the peak, and you'll have the cell internal resistance. As you have the tools at hand, perhaps you might perform these tests? If not, I'd be happy to do them if provided with a sample cell. K. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 07:48:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA29746; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 07:46:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 07:46:09 -0800 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2c0ac5e9.363175d2@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 10:47:25 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: tesla experiments Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA29729 Resent-Message-ID: <"sQbnt.0.iG7.0VqCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7271 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is truly wonderful science work you are doing. Thanks for your efforts and for putting in on the web... >Dans un courrier daté du 24/10/98 03:30:38é), egel@main.murray.net.au a écrit >: > >> >> Just added some info about Tesla and his method of transmitting electrical >> energy without wire. >> >> Have also added some simple expeirments you can try for yourself using >> his ideas >>http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/tesla2.html > >Hi Geoff and All, > >Thank you very much for your update informations about the Tesla works on LMD >experiments. I have also reproduced successfully these experiment according to >Eric Dollard (from the BSRA team) advices showed in the video. You will find >all details, diagrams and pictures for a successfull test also in my web site >at : > >http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/lmdtem.htm > >For going further in the exploration the Tesla's technologies, you will find >also in my web site, some informations about the Nikola Tesla's Magnifying >Transmitter and his principle at: > >http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/tmt.htm > >I think that this will interest you, >Keep up your good work. > >Sincerely, > >Jean-Louis Naudin Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 07:49:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA30910; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 07:47:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 07:47:48 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981025155702.00e16d58@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 10:57:02 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, vortex-L@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Missing Meyer Patent Info Cc: Eric Howlett , hic@world.std.com, jkokor@alum.mit.edu, discjt@servtech.com, jsearl@tako.demon.co.uk, lstelmac@lynx.neu.edu, rsmith@itiip.com, 73577.123@CompuServe.COM, tcapizzi@world.std.com, tom.duff@poweroasis.com Resent-Message-ID: <"4ZnA81.0.nY7.ZWqCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7272 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi; As I recall, the Meyer hydrogen cell patant with two concentric electrodes was very specific on almost all details of the design except for the thickness of the stainless steel electrode cylinders. Insignificant? Accident? Key piece of info on the design I believe. And probably one of the most difficult parameter's to determine. I think that the electrodes mass chord(s) must be also tuned to the resonant frequency of the water molecule bonds. Keely experimented with Chladni plates to learn how to tune objects dimensionally. Establishing standing electrical resonance waves with the water molecule bonds, which also keeps in sympathic vibration with the electrode mass chord(s), may be a key design feature. Isn't resonance analogus to superconductance? Also, I notice that the electrolysis signal waveform amplitudes was about 1000 V on the final cycle. If the electrolysis process runs cool under these voltage levels, there must be a coherent collisionless vibration keeping the entire cell assembly in synchronous harmony. If I suddenly saw pink dots missing from a prototype, I too would probably be distracted to the point of not being able to get the powersupply tuned. I might think, what is the idea here? Either somebody doesn't understand the higher dimensional laws or they think that they're better, or more powerful, or they won't be noticed by the universe, or what? Isn't a positive energy unit added to a negative energy unit equal to zero? Regards; Dennis Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 08:01:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA03788; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 07:59:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 07:59:39 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981025160852.00e21130@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 11:08:52 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Planet Tip? Does the government care? Resent-Message-ID: <"C0iIu3.0.1x.hhqCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7273 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi; > >Thanks for the correction. Here is a quote from "5/5/2000 Ice: The Ultimate >Disaster" by Richard Noone. Pgs. 318-319 > > Hugh Auchincloss Brown is not the only one to present evidence that >the Antarctic ice mass might contribute to catastrophic earth >changes. In The Ocean World of Jacques Cousteau: The White Caps >(Vol. 16, p. 38), Captain Cousteau writes that in 1964 J. Tuzo >Wilson theorized that periodically, when the accumulation of ice on >Antarctica became large and heavy enough, the entire cap broke and >slid into the ocean in a catastrophic manner that submerged the >continents and sent enough ice to subtropical zones to cool the >entire globe substantially. > > This type of ice surge the engineer Brown shows is sudden. Brown >computed that during a pole-shift the polar ice mass would be >thrown toward the Earth's point of greatest spin (the Equator) at >an approximate speed of 1600 miles per hour. In other words, the >ice mass in Antarctica would be displaced to subtropical zones >within 3 or 4 hours! > Cousteau also points out that before the Antarctic continent was >buried beneath the shroud of ice now two-and-one-half miles high, >it was first covered with a glacier before acquiring its present >ice sheet. > > In his book Earth Changes Ahead (released as this book went to >press), Frank Don discussed Wilson's research: > >Although some of the ice cover on Antarctica creeps toward the >coastal edges and breaks off from the continent as icebergs, the >ice-surge theory contends that a massive build-up of ice cover on >that polar continent could prevent the heat rising from the earth's >interior. The prevention of heat release then warms the bottom layers of >the ice sheet, allowing it to slide relatively easily along the ground. >This process eventually leads to the icesheets breaking off into the ocean >as large sections instead of as smaller icebergs. The immediate consequence >of such an ice surge is the triggering of tsunamis and the raising of the >level of the world's oceans by as much as 20 to 70 meters, thereby flooding >many coastal areas around the world. In addition, it is asserted that an >ice surge distorts the earth's rotational balance, for the huge block of >floating ice increases the amount of solar radiation reflected back toward >interstellar space. This condition in turn results in a dramatic lowering >of surface temperatures, a cooling trend, and the beginning of another ice >age." > > >The question is, does the government have some kind of master plan to avert >this possibility? I propose the following questions be asked should the Men >In Black (MIB), or anyone else who may threaten us to stop Free Energy or >Antigravity development: > >1. What is the Master Plan to avert possible catastrophy from Global Warming >or a planetary axis tilt from the icecaps slipping? > > If they reply that only conventional technology is allowed: > >2. You mean that you will not help me to refine my design so it is safe? > > If they reply no: > >3. What will you do if and when the sh*t hits the fan? > > If they say, we will wish you luck, then we are ducking out in our secret >underground bases, sorry you're not invited: > >At least then we will know that they are either working for some ruthless >aliens or, that they are all just a bunch of evil idiots who let they >paranoia run amok which will result in our destruction of planetary >proportion. Worst case scenario, even ten Tunguska level accidents can't be >as bad as a global axis tilt, or an icecap meltdown could it? > >I want to ask: Professor Searl would you please teach me how to be a flying >saucer engineer? If I can build one, I want to start a business selling big >icecubes cut out of the South Pole Icecap. Need to build a lake or cool a >desert? Big icecubes for sale... $5,000.00 per cubic mile delivered! :) > > >Has the icecap build up problem been solved on Mars? > >http://www.eagle-net.org/IWP/mars.htm > > >Please read your religious doctrine as is applicable; >Dennis > > >At 11:21 PM 10/24/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Hi Dennis and all, >>At 12:33 PM 10/24/98 -0400, you wrote: >> >>>Who knows? Maybe global warming is keeping the Antarctic polar icecap small >>>enough that the planetary alignment at 5/5/2000 won't tip the Earth's axis? >>>The wooly mammoths they found perfectly frozen in the arctic region suggests >>>that it has happened before. Once the icecap slips to the equator (in 3-4 >>>hours?), the velocity is calculated to be 16,000 mph. The atmosphere can't >>>keep up and everywhere except the pivot points gets exposed to the vacuum of >>>space. >>> >>Where would all this energy come from? Tha artic ice is floating so it has >>no "fall" to reach the equator. If it could fall 100 m, then its velocity >>would only be about 40m/s. If this was coupled to the whole earth, it would >>result >>in a very small velocity. ( angular momentum of ice ->angular momentum of >>ice +earth) 16,000mph sounds like close to the free fall (in vacuum) of an >>object to the center of the earth through a hypothetical clear path! >>-Dave >> >> >> > > >Tall Ships >http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html > > > Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 09:07:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA24779; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 09:06:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 09:06:14 -0800 Message-ID: <36335A53.6DBBD6C9@zippnet.net> Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 09:05:23 -0800 From: pat weissleader Reply-To: lizardhaven@zippnet.net Organization: lizardhaven X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrogen gap References: <199810250038.UAA18325@fh102.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"if0OC.0._26.6grCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7274 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: george wiseman told me that when you got it right and were producing brown's gas, the equipment got cold instead of hot. -- Patricia Weissleader at Lizardhaven Ranch 'where the critter meets the glitter' From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 10:40:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA25579; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 10:38:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 10:38:58 -0800 From: UNIR2B1@aol.com Message-ID: <99eebf1e.36337008@aol.com> Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 13:38:00 EST To: piercemark@hotmail.com, markland@rockisland.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, UFOLAWYER1@aol.com, Terri Schoolden , lkvp@mail.awod.com, Sharon , Vince Goetsch <3wishes@wishgranted.com>, Carolyn , johnhoffman@webtv.net, huntfish1@juno.com, cotaylor@cellone.net, PetMagic@aol.com, biotron@pacbell.net, rolfehauser@bigfoot.com, candace1@usa.net, goldbug@worldaccessnet.com, y2k-survival@infostream.net, cturner@npwt.net, SedonaY2K@mail-list.com, nhne@nhne.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: 'PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY' (RAPIDLY) FORMING... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"nY2f62.0.9F6.01tCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7275 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi-- The following are replies to my query about the 'ideal' community, received from Richard and Vince (a version I edited for brevity), respectively. Would you like to live with these people & their families? I would! Just as a house doesn’t make a home, the cohesion of our ‘community’ won’t consist of 40 acres, but fom the synergy that transpires among those from whom these ideas provoke further contributions. (I will save a few contributions of my own for the next post.) Keep up the good (cerebral) work! --Russ ---------------------------------- 1. Spiritually advanced participants 2. Excellent health of participants 3. Mix of artistic and scientific skills 4. Enough participants to create synergy 5. Sense of purpose beyond self preservation 6. Ability to communicate and help evolve outside communities (service) 7. Sustainable structure within the community for food, energy, and materials 8. Debt free status 9. Balance of private space (participant-owned) and public space (collectively owned) 10. Ability to have fun! ------------------------------- >Hi, Russ >Thank you for spearheading this endeavor. I am married with two children, 7 & 9. >I have been aware of prophesy and earth change info for many years. I took it seriously 9 years ago and moved to Arkansas. As my knowledge and intuition have grown, I am now of the impression that this area may not be where we wish to face the changes. >My wife and I envision that those who have been silently preparing and informing themselves in various ways will now come together, synergistically creating an intentional community of individuals with diverse backgrounds, beliefs and professions. >We envision that people of a certain consciousness level will be drawn to this endeavor, triggered by the wording of these communications. Many will already have been actively seeking a supportive, tolerant group; others will be suddenly ignited to become involved. Although this culmination might seem hasty and precipitous in outward appearance, we believe its rapidity will actually signify immediate recognition among spirits that have been long kindred. We believe that uniqueness of the gifts that each brings will--even to the group’s astonishment--provide the needed resources, systems and facilities. >Community endeavors of the past often have been problematic. Communes suffer from difficulties arising from the pooling of money and belongings. Most states have water and sewer restrictions that inhibit rapid development of multiple residences. People are averse to developing land that they don’t own, but selling individuated tracts can be divisive. However, we have glimpsed a possible solution. >In order to balance individual freedom with collective security, we envision placing the land in a trust. Each party would invest in the trust, and thereby obtain exclusive access to a specified area. Each trustee could then develop his tract without local subdivision restrictions, and bequeath it to his family without taxation. At the same time, stipulations written into the trust would protect the group against any individuals’ using the land inconsistently with the original, collective intent. >In order to effect a quick startup, the initial organization might take the form of an RV community. Next, emergency measures could be prepared. For example, an area could be set aside for collecting used tires and metal roofing for building ‘earth ships’ in case building supplies became scarce. Sleeping gear and four-season tents from military surplus might also serve as inexpensive backup measures. >Food storage facilities should be secured, for both short-term items (esp. nitrogen packed, open-pollinated seeds) and long-term goods, which could be purchased by the truckload, directly from railroad salvage brokers. Food production projects could be implemented in order of priority, such as immediate construction of pit greenhouses and spirulina growing tanks, as well as ‘permaculture’ cultivation of outdoor plants like amaranth (weather permitting). >The community could buy shotcrete machinery etc. for rapid construction of low cost, thermally efficient, super strong monolithic domes (time and events permitting). >Plastic septic systems could be installed and fitted with methane collecting tanks for powering water heaters etc.< --------------- (Now it's your turn to not only imagineer your 'dream community', but to actually coalesce with the people and property required for realize that dream! --Russ) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 11:19:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA06606; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 11:16:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 11:16:59 -0800 Message-ID: <36338644.203ED7A2@harti.com> Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 21:12:52 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Sergey M.Godin" CC: freenrg-l , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Zaev heat to electricity converter article update ! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"87zdM3.0.8d1.hatCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7276 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I just updated my page now with the conclusion, how this thermodynamic cycle process is working. It is now very clear to me, how the heat is converted into electricity ! Please have a look at: http://www.overunity.com/zaev/ Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 14:01:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA29030; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 13:59:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 13:59:57 -0800 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Vortex turbines Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 22:01:35 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <36339d65.55464034@24.192.1.20> References: <3.0.5.32.19981023163837.00898440@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981023163837.00898440@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981024141144.0089b720@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981024141144.0089b720@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XAFb81.0.U57.TzvCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7277 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:11:44 -0700, trknute@earthlink.net wrote: >Robin > >You must know by now that I am not a supporter of OU research, but here is >where your example breaks down. One, a fixed in space, point of resistance >or support, "a fulcrum" would have no relevance in a fluid medium, as fluid >seeks its own level. Your example presupposes asymmetry, fluid dynamics are As you yourself point out in the next sentence, in this case fluid doesn't "seek its own level". The rule of thumb you quote is only valid in conditions of static equilibrium. Clearly not valid in this case. >inherently symmetric. You have imposed an invalid criterion in your Also obviously not true. Up is not the same as down. Here gravity provides for the asymmetry. >evaluation. Second, the energy is centrifugal force is the source of the >water lifting on the sides of the vessel. Correct. >The spin of the vortex self >generates the force that lifts the water. Actually the centrifugal force of the inner layers of water compressing the outer layers against the wall of the vessel is responsible for the spreading of the outer layers. This spreading takes place in the two directions in which it is free to move, up and down. Nevertheless, the energy required to generate the motion that is responsible for the centrifugal force comes from the inner layers of water going down the gurgler. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://users.bigpond.net.au/Ultra-High-Temp-BECs for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 14:43:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA11213; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:42:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:42:14 -0800 Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 05:43:52 +0100 Message-Id: <199810260443.FAA18088@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: WDBAUER@pop3.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) Subject: the way to overunity feedback units using Zaev-effect electronic components Resent-Message-ID: <"nUYtv3.0.zk2.5bwCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7279 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello All ! I want post here only some ideas how the project using the Zaev-Effect can be brougth to a self-running unit. Step 1: Search for optimized materials, magnetical (coils) and ferroelectrical (for capacitance) Step 2: Looking for old LC - multivibrator circuits for rectangular pulses. They are sometimes used in old power supplies, sometimes to drive high-voltage cascades. If the capacitances and coils contain these special materials, perhaps the eefficiency is higher than one and can be feeded back to the energy input from the last output element of the multivibrator. The surplus over unity is the usable work ! Best regards Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 14:45:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA11099; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:41:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:41:58 -0800 Message-ID: <3633AC84.762A83E0@harti.com> Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 23:56:04 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Sergey M.Godin" CC: Jean-Louis Naudin , Dieter Bauer , Dave Squires , Valdis Postovalov , Pablo Bonutto , Motoe Suzuki , Leonid Polikoff , Tim Vaughan , freenrg-l , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Quick test verifies basic principles of heat to energy converter ! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xFroU1.0.Cj2.rawCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7278 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I just did a quick experiment, where I have verified the basic principle behind the heat to electrical energy converter using a temperature dependant capacitor. See also: http://www.overunity.com/zaev for reference. The experiment was done to prove, that a charged ceramic capacitor could raise the stored voltage, when it is heated and not more connected to the voltage source ! I bought on last Saturday a few ceramic caps ranging from 10 nF to 1 MikroFarad which I just experimented with.. I had a DC voltage source of 18 Volts and charged up the 10 x 1 mikroFarad caps connected in parallel ,I had bought , to this 18 Volts DC supply. Now I disconnceted the voltage supply. I had my scope connected to the capacitors and the scope had a 100 MegaOhm input resistance. At 10 mikroFarad the Voltage drop due to the 100 MOhm input resistor was very slow... Now I got my "hair-dryer-heater" out and heated up the caps with the strongest setting of this hair-dryer.. I had no thermometer, but I think the temperature must have been now about 50 to 80 degrees Celsius... Now the voltage on the 10 x 1 uF caps was displaying 42 Volts ! Thus the voltage had increased more than double by this temperature increase ! Thus it is proven, that the basic principle of the voltage rise when the dielectricum is heated, is valid ! As Q=CU stays constant, when C decreased due to the dielectricum heating, Voltage V must rise, so that the stored charge stays constant ! As the Voltage V rise is squared inside the energy bilance: W=0.5CV^2 this rises the stored energy in the capacitor, just by applying the heat ! Now we only have to find the right ceramic dielectricum material, that has the highest d(Epsilon)/d(Temperature)>0 change at room temperature and a selfrunning heat to electrical energy converter will be possible. Imagine a selfrunning fridge, producing all the electricity you need for your house, or a boat motor powering your ship by cooling down the seawater ! The applications are endless ! Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 14:50:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA16704; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:49:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:49:01 -0800 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: hydroxy experiments Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 22:50:36 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3635aa5d.58785204@24.192.1.20> References: <3.0.5.32.19981024185428.00895cf0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981024204211.0089dc20@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981024204211.0089dc20@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-HBtS2.0.e44.ShwCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7280 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 24 Oct 1998 20:42:11 -0700, trknute@earthlink.net wrote: >No you do not realy need to seperate them by much because even a thin film >of water will produce the effects. Make your test cells individualy then >try differing conections of say, 24 cells. If you were to leave a single >cell of this type in a pan of water, you will see that it will slowly >discharge the ions in the pan over about an hour. This says to me that even >a mild flow of water can be a source of continuas energy. [snip] I suspect that you are just replacing H+ ions in the water with Fe+ and Fe++ ions. This means you will continue to get a small amount of power until the iron rod is completely rusted away. The actual source of power is not the water, but the chemical energy that was put into the iron when it was smelted. This came from coal. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 14:51:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA17701; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:50:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:50:18 -0800 From: UNIR2B1@aol.com Message-ID: <693c8d7b.3633ab10@aol.com> Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 17:49:52 EST To: candace1@usa.net, goldbug@worldaccessnet.com, y2k-survival@infostream.net, cturner@npwt.net, SedonaY2K@mail-list.com, nhne@nhne.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, piercemark@hotmail.com, markland@rockisland.com, UFOLAWYER1@aol.com, Terri Schoolden , lkvp@mail.awod.com, Sharon , Vince Goetsch <3wishes@wishgranted.com>, Carolyn , johnhoffman@webtv.net, huntfish1@juno.com, cotaylor@cellone.net, PetMagic@aol.com, biotron@pacbell.net, hauserrolfe@bigfoot.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Fwd: 'PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY' meeting? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"Qi2xZ3.0.UK4.fiwCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7281 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >We may be doing some traveling in November >in your direction, could you send a map >via email so that we could stop in... Hi, Richard-- Plans for a convergence of interested parties seem to be serendipitously culminating around the 2nd weekend in Nov.; perhaps we all should pursue this as an objective. Graphics can be attached in a .tif format or faxed (or snail-mailed); however, the directions here are simple, and require no map. (As I have said: although this acreage is mainly wooded and adjoins wilderness, the general area is approached more accessibly than a remote, "survival retreat".) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 15:15:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA27746; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 15:13:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 15:13:45 -0800 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981025141630.00896a70@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:16:30 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Thermal Ionics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"chHQ02.0.Ln6.e2xCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7282 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thermal Ionics, Many of you on this list are voracious informationalists. I would hope to ask that, some who would, help me in a search for additional information on ionic generators. Prior to the Internet, many who worked in these fields were often isolated in their work. It was the case that we often shared information much more freely, and were genuinely happy when we met another working in this area of. Knowing that these efforts were not well accepted by conventional science, we often formed tight emotional bonds. One such time where I ignored these unwritten protocols, was when I met a small older man, who was working in Thermal Ionics. This is the science of threshold ion transfer across dissimilar metal junctures. This is the same technology that is used in constructing the thermal couples used on pilot light safety, and mili-volt thermal generators. I had met this man at an informal gathering of inventors and scientists, at event put on Timothy Leary, at a private home in the hills outside Hollywood. Please do not make the obvious connection here, I have never and am not in support of any drug, use of any kind, but it was the case that Leary, surrounded himself with individuals that were outside the mainstream of culture. You might say this was a theme party, that of obscure inventors. I was able to show a few tapes of my work and others put on demonstrations. Not like getting your name in the New York Times, but it was a nice gathering. The demonstration of this ionic device by its' inventor, was one of the high points of the evening. He had recently obtained approval federal funding, and seemed to be well on his way with the device. Perhaps that is why I paid little attention to his name, as it was standard procedure to sign confidentiality agreements, and that you would hear very little from an inventor after he had signed on with the government. The device was about 20" long, and had electrical leads and a mounting plate at one extreme end. It was tubular and about 1 1/4" in diameter. It seemed to be made of Monel, as it had a fine, dull shine not like that that would be thought of with stainless. The demonstration was conducted directly in the household oven. Closing the door, he ran the leads to 4, 100 Watt light bulbs, in a rack on the counter. As the temperature came up to about 280` F. the bulbs began to glow. By the time the oven had reached 400` F, the bulbs were well lit. The output was at 24 volts DC, and was continuous and unfaltering. Throughout the evening it was used as the only light in the kitchen for the entire remaining time of the event. I would only ask if others had heard of this mans work, or if anyone else has followed up on this technology. I do not want to start another conspiracy theory here, as those are so unproductive, but I honestly tell you that I was convinced of the validity of what I had seen that night. It is a well, established scientific principle, used every day in all homes that have gas appliances. It is just to date that I have never seen one this powerful, nor as efficient. As I remember he had photos of a parabolic trough with many of these in series arrangement using the focused rays of the sun to generate great amounts of electricity. Thanks for any help TR Knudtson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 15:30:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA00513; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 15:28:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 15:28:51 -0800 Message-ID: <3633CFFB.101EE9E4@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 17:27:23 -0800 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Freenrg-L Subject: Hodowanec Detector Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2uXgB3.0.v7.oGxCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7283 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All: I have tested Gregory Hodowanec's "Gravity Wave Detector." It does not work as described. The basic detector just produces a steady background hum, with no variations at all. The buffered detector, if tuned properly, produces a "bump-bump-bump" sound that can be sped up or slowed down by tuning the potentiometers. Loud squeals can also be produced. These seem to in no way correlate with anything outside the electronics of the detector. Has anyone here had any luck with these circuits? Perhaps I have done something wrong. Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 15:33:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA01351; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 15:30:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 15:30:29 -0800 Message-ID: <3633B81E.88AF068E@harti.com> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 00:45:34 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Sergey M.Godin" CC: Jean-Louis Naudin , Dieter Bauer , Dave Squires , Valdis Postovalov , Pablo Bonutto , Motoe Suzuki , Leonid Polikoff , Tim Vaughan , freenrg-l , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: Quick test verifies basic principles of heat to energy converter ! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FX2VD.0.rK.KIxCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7284 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I just got a phone call from Dieter Bauer and he is right, that I was just a bit too fast: My experiment just only shows the temperature dependance of the dielectricum material. Unfortunately we are here at the right side of the Curie point in Curve B (see Fig.2 at http://www.overunity.com/zaev ) , so here I had measured d(Epsilon)/d(Temperature) < 0 ! But we now have to find the right ceramic dielectricum material, that has a d(Epsilon)/d(Temperature) > 0 ! so we have to be at the left side of the Curie Point ! It is just a matter to find the right capacitors, which Mr. Zaev and Mr. Godin already must have found ! Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 16:04:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA12295; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 16:01:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 16:01:24 -0800 Message-ID: <3633BBE3.BA0E664E@GroupZ.net> Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 19:01:39 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Thermal Ionics References: <3.0.5.32.19981025141630.00896a70@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kKW_N.0.103.JlxCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7285 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: TR here is generator that is being sold...they are having problems, but seem to be on there way... here is url, and quote from site.... http://www.jademountain.com/genmotchg.html 5000 watt Thermo-Electric Generator ***Bookmark this page for updates on availability. Please do not call Jade Mountain for this information. Thanks!! Revolutionary new power generator - no noise, no moving parts, no vibration & only 27 lbs.! A major breakthrough in back-up power technology - 5000 watts, 120 vac from a small 27 lb. generator! Extremely low maintenance with no moving parts to wear, no noise, no vibration. Powered from locally available heat sources like propane or natural gas, this new thermocouple design uses special copper plates and creates a magnetic field for producing power from high temperature differentials. We believe this product will make traditional gas generators with their noise, pollution, and high maintenance obsolete. 230 vac 50 Hz, kerosene, diesel, and alcohol powered models available during the next year. Heat comes out the top and can be used for cooking or space heating. At full power uses about 1 lb. of LP/hr (c. 6 gallons). trknute@earthlink.net wrote: > > Thermal Ionics, > > Many of you on this list are voracious informationalists. I would hope to > ask that, some who would, help me in a search for additional information on > ionic generators. > > Prior to the Internet, many who worked in these fields were often isolated > in their work. It was the case that we often shared information much more > freely, and were genuinely happy when we met another working in this area > of. Knowing that these efforts were not well accepted by conventional > science, we often formed tight emotional bonds. > > One such time where I ignored these unwritten protocols, was when I met a > small older man, who was working in Thermal Ionics. This is the science > of threshold ion transfer across dissimilar metal junctures. > This is the same technology that is used in constructing the thermal > couples used on pilot light safety, and mili-volt thermal generators. > > I had met this man at an informal gathering of inventors and scientists, at > event put on Timothy Leary, at a private home in the hills outside > Hollywood. Please do not make the obvious connection here, I have never > and am not in support of any drug, use of any kind, but it was the case > that Leary, surrounded himself with individuals that were outside the > mainstream of culture. You might say this was a theme party, that of > obscure inventors. I was able to show a few tapes of my work and others put > on demonstrations. Not like getting your name in the New York Times, but it > was a nice gathering. > > The demonstration of this ionic device by its' inventor, was one of the > high points of the evening. He had recently obtained approval federal > funding, and seemed to be well on his way with the device. Perhaps that is > why I paid little attention to his name, as it was standard procedure to > sign confidentiality agreements, and that you would hear very little from > an inventor after he had signed on with the government. > > The device was about 20" long, and had electrical leads and a mounting > plate at one extreme end. It was tubular and about 1 1/4" in diameter. It > seemed to be made of Monel, as it had a fine, dull shine not like that that > would be thought of with stainless. > > The demonstration was conducted directly in the household oven. Closing the > door, he ran the leads to 4, 100 Watt light bulbs, in a rack on the > counter. As the temperature came up to about 280` F. the bulbs began to > glow. By the time the oven had reached 400` F, the bulbs were well lit. > The output was at 24 volts DC, and was continuous and unfaltering. > Throughout the evening it was used as the only light in the kitchen for the > entire remaining time of the event. > > I would only ask if others had heard of this mans work, or if anyone else > has followed up on this technology. I do not want to start another > conspiracy theory here, as those are so unproductive, but I honestly tell > you that I was convinced of the validity of what I had seen that night. It > is a well, established scientific principle, used every day in all homes > that have gas appliances. It is just to date that I have never seen one > this powerful, nor as efficient. > > As I remember he had photos of a parabolic trough with many of these in > series arrangement using the focused rays of the sun to generate great > amounts of electricity. > > Thanks for any help > > TR Knudtson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 16:22:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA20434; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 16:20:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 16:20:56 -0800 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3633CFFB.101EE9E4@sunherald.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:19:32 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Hodowanec Detector Resent-Message-ID: <"iKUiF3.0.A_4.d1yCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7286 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Kyle - > The buffered detector, if tuned properly, > produces a "bump-bump-bump" sound that > can be sped up or slowed down by tuning the > potentiometers. Sounded sort of like popcorn popping in a closed container? I only got mine tuned correctly once and got that sound. That's what is supposedly signal from space. I think it's astounding that by turning a pot we can speed up the death of distant stars. Pen and Teller would appreciate that one. The only other time I saw interesting signal on the scope and tried listening to it on headphones, it turned out to be bits and pieces of bass lines from a song on an AM radio station. Seriously, maybe some components can or do react to scalar waves or something in detectors like these. But ordinary thermal random effects are so overwhelming, it's obvious these things don't work as practical detectors of such signals as Hodowanec claimed. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 16:34:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA27399 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 16:34:37 -0800 Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 16:34:37 -0800 X-Envelope-From: cturner@bolivar.varner.com Sun Oct 25 16:34:31 1998 Received: from bolivar.varner.com (root@bolivar.varner.com [208.236.160.18]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA27293; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 16:34:30 -0800 Received: from family.clanjop.com ([207.50.174.67]) by bolivar.varner.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA24666; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 18:35:58 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199810260035.SAA24666@bolivar.varner.com> From: "Candace" To: piercemark@hotmail.com, markland@rockisland.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, UFOLAWYER1@aol.com, Terri Schoolden , lkvp@mail.awod.com, Sharon , Vince Goetsch <3wishes@wishgranted.com>, Carolyn , johnhoffman@webtv.net, huntfish1@Juno.com, cotaylor@cellone.net, PetMagic@aol.com, biotron@pacbell.net, rolfehauser@bigfoot.com, candace1@usa.net, goldbug@worldaccessnet.com, y2k-survival@infostream.net, cturner@npwt.net, SedonaY2K@mail-list.com, nhne@nhne.com, UNIR2B1@aol.com Old-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 19:38:13 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: 'PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY' (RAPIDLY) FORMING... Reply-to: cturner@npwt.net Priority: normal In-reply-to: <99eebf1e.36337008@aol.com> X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Candace's remarks at bottom: > From: UNIR2B1@aol.com > Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 13:38:00 EST >> Subject: 'PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY' (RAPIDLY) FORMING... > Hi-- > > The following are replies to my query about the 'ideal' community, received > from Richard and Vince (a version I edited for brevity), respectively. Would > you like to live with these people & their families? I would! > > Just as a house doesn't make a home, the cohesion of our `community' won't > consist of 40 acres, but fom the synergy that transpires among those from whom > these ideas provoke further contributions. (I will save a few contributions > of my own for the next post.) > > Keep up the good (cerebral) work! > > --Russ > > ---------------------------------- > > 1. Spiritually advanced participants > 2. Excellent health of participants > 3. Mix of artistic and scientific skills > 4. Enough participants to create synergy > 5. Sense of purpose beyond self preservation > 6. Ability to communicate and help evolve outside communities (service) > 7. Sustainable structure within the community for food, energy, and materials > 8. Debt free status > 9. Balance of private space (participant-owned) and public space (collectively > owned) > 10. Ability to have fun! > > ------------------------------- > > >Hi, Russ > > >Thank you for spearheading this endeavor. I am married with two children, 7 > & 9. > > >I have been aware of prophesy and earth change info for many years. I took > it seriously 9 years ago and moved to Arkansas. As my knowledge and intuition > have grown, I am now of the impression that this area may not be where we wish > to face the changes. > > >My wife and I envision that those who have been silently preparing and > informing themselves in various ways will now come together, synergistically > creating an intentional community of individuals with diverse backgrounds, > beliefs and professions. > > >We envision that people of a certain consciousness level will be drawn to > this endeavor, triggered by the wording of these communications. Many will > already have been actively seeking a supportive, tolerant group; others will > be suddenly ignited to become involved. Although this culmination might seem > hasty and precipitous in outward appearance, we believe its rapidity will > actually signify immediate recognition among spirits that have been long > kindred. We believe that uniqueness of the gifts that each brings will--even > to the group's astonishment--provide the needed resources, systems and > facilities. > > >Community endeavors of the past often have been problematic. Communes suffer > from difficulties arising from the pooling of money and belongings. Most > states have water and sewer restrictions that inhibit rapid development of > multiple residences. People are averse to developing land that they don't > own, but selling individuated tracts can be divisive. However, we have > glimpsed a possible solution. > > >In order to balance individual freedom with collective security, we envision > placing the land in a trust. Each party would invest in the trust, and > thereby obtain exclusive access to a specified area. Each trustee could then > develop his tract without local subdivision restrictions, and bequeath it to > his family without taxation. At the same time, stipulations written into the > trust would protect the group against any individuals' using the land > inconsistently with the original, collective intent. > > >In order to effect a quick startup, the initial organization might take the > form of an RV community. Next, emergency measures could be prepared. For > example, an area could be set aside for collecting used tires and metal > roofing for building `earth ships' in case building supplies became scarce. > Sleeping gear and four-season tents from military surplus might also serve as > inexpensive backup measures. > > >Food storage facilities should be secured, for both short-term items (esp. > nitrogen packed, open-pollinated seeds) and long-term goods, which could be > purchased by the truckload, directly from railroad salvage brokers. Food > production projects could be implemented in order of priority, such as > immediate construction of pit greenhouses and spirulina growing tanks, as well > as `permaculture' cultivation of outdoor plants like amaranth (weather > permitting). > > >The community could buy shotcrete machinery etc. for rapid construction of > low cost, thermally efficient, super strong monolithic domes (time and events > permitting). > > >Plastic septic systems could be installed and fitted with methane collecting > tanks for powering water heaters etc.< > > --------------- > > (Now it's your turn to not only imagineer your 'dream community', but to > actually coalesce with the people and property required for realize that > dream! --Russ) > > Russ, I say this is all very fine - if you found people willing to live in tents (and some on my list say they would, I wonder if they agree with me that this will be a 10 yr problem?). And, if folks started this 10 yrs ago. I think city folks don't have a clue. I think 3 families (with relatives) is the most a group would want. I think you need someone who was born on a farm. [That's why I recommend Jim Pollard's place and Les Turner's place. Jim is willing to take 10 families. We certainly aren't. I'll cooperate with the rural neighbors in 2001, that will be enough for synergy. And they will have the practical skills it takes.] Russ, I hope you don't take offense at a 'reality check' here. I have visited many communes/communities stateside and abroad. You have a wonderful, idealistic list there. We'd all love to be a part of such a community. But for these y2k times, what I advise most people to look for is someone who is serious about 5} Small group perservation. Period. But I have a Trust and would be interested in seeing a copy of the Trust you're proposing here. This discussion, I am sure will be helpful to some to focus their decision making. But I for one think Gary North thought it through well and his advice made the very best sense. For those who only became y2k aware last month, they have to seriously adjust his recommendations and they will do fine - if you also link up with someone with farm experience. I have (and am again) asking some y2ker to focus on a y2k Awareness Outreach to midwestern farmers. Any Subchair volunteers here? Candace y2k Net Mom http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5730/candacefaq.html To join auto, daily email y2k tip list: http://infostream.net To discuss Missouri reloation say: subscribe missouri in subj line at candace1@usa.net http://www.geocities.com/PicketFence/3949/index.html http://infostream.net to join and unsubscribe from automated Email list. To join my other lists, please put in the subject only to candace1@usa.net the exact, appropriate title. Relocating y2kers: Subscribe Relocating or Unsubscribe Relocating Dome Homes & Storage Units: subscribe dome or unsubscribe dome Current News: subscribe current news or unsubscribe current news. Say News: to auto post. Prayer & Fasting for family & nation: join fasting or unjoin fasting ***(If you landed on my OLD y2k list, you may unsubscribe y2000 only in the subj line.) We have a y2k NET Family Village and need every subscriber to join at least one subcommittee within 2 wks of joining list. Together, we're going to make it! Teleconference every Wed 9:30 p.m. central time 1-610-856-7743. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 16:41:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA29574; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 16:40:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 16:40:19 -0800 Message-ID: <3633E0C0.180CE770@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 18:38:56 -0800 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hodowanec Detector References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"97v6Y.0._D7.pJyCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7287 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > Sounded sort of like popcorn popping in a closed container? Just like that. Good description! > I only got mine > tuned correctly once and got that sound. That's what is supposedly signal > from space. I think it's astounding that by turning a pot we can speed up > the death of distant stars. Wow, the perfect defence system. You bother us, we'll blow your star up! ;-) > The only other time I saw interesting signal on the scope and tried listening > to it on headphones, it turned out to be bits and pieces of bass lines from > a song on an AM radio station. Yes, I detected snippets of a Willie Nelson song a few days ago. > Seriously, maybe some components can or do react to scalar waves or > something in detectors like these. But ordinary thermal random effects are > so overwhelming, it's obvious these things don't work as practical > detectors of such signals as Hodowanec claimed. I'm planning to try this circuit out again by pulling the 1458 out and replacing it with a TL082. Might work better? This was recommended in a file by Bob Shannon I saw somewhere. Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 16:50:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA31912; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 16:47:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 16:47:26 -0800 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981025155002.00897c40@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 15:50:02 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: hydroxy experiments In-Reply-To: <3635aa5d.58785204@24.192.1.20> References: <3.0.5.32.19981024204211.0089dc20@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981024185428.00895cf0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981024204211.0089dc20@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"AaC0i1.0.So7.TQyCs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7288 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear robin, It is with great disgust that I respond to your assertions. One if it was the case that you describe than Halaluya! You have just invented to most efficient and inexpensive way to obtain energy for water yet known to man! I placed the post as a help to those who are doing WORK in scientific investigation. It is totally incomprehensible to me to understand how well educated, academics, such as yourself, can so freely discount the work of others without once trying to perform the experiment. One I suggested in the post a shallow pan of water, because the same objection that you raise, was offered in the past as a source of the power. A shallow pan, so that the electrodes are not immersed in the water, thus shorting them out. Does this mean that in the final design of the array the leads will need to be protected from direct short? YES But as I will point out the post was for those who are doing this work. I would think that you would find it commendable that, here in a public forum I offer up these experiments for others to confirm of disprove. You rather seek to use this forum to discount and ridicule. Am I being overly sensitive here? You damn right I am! I will never cease to be amazed by the willingness of others to reject advances in science simply because they had not read of it in a book. Those books, that are the foundations the culmination of the work hundreds of thousands of others performing the very type of work that you seek to repress. I suppose, there in lies the difference in the type of individuals involved here. One seeks to learn science, one seeks to do science. For more than 20 years I have been demonstrating working water fuel technologies. At all times I have been met with similar responses to yours. Now there are thousands doing this work and it is slowly becoming well accepted as a field of investigation by governments and universities alike. By way of example I was scheduled to give a demonstration for a local university. At my introduction the professor, handling the event openly laughed as he introduced me as "Knudtson, The man who thinks he can make water burn". I went on to bore holes in 6" steel plate, melt stone as I held it in my hand, and fuse numerous materials thought to be impossible, as all in the auditorium looked on. In fact, my anger is improperly focused at you. As it is more the advent of a total life experience than anything you have said. It is actually unfair for me to dump on you this way. I wish you knew how truly envious I am of you and your attainments. I suppose it is just that in many ways, is the crux of my feelings. Where I may have been able to make something or another work in practical science, it is totally disheartening to be summarily rejected by those I would hold in high regard as having high intelligence, without them once attempting to verify the results. Sorry TR Knudtson At 10:50 PM 10/25/98 GMT, you wrote: >On Sat, 24 Oct 1998 20:42:11 -0700, trknute@earthlink.net wrote: > >>No you do not realy need to seperate them by much because even a thin film >>of water will produce the effects. Make your test cells individualy then >>try differing conections of say, 24 cells. If you were to leave a single >>cell of this type in a pan of water, you will see that it will slowly >>discharge the ions in the pan over about an hour. This says to me that even >>a mild flow of water can be a source of continuas energy. >[snip] >I suspect that you are just replacing H+ ions in the water with Fe+ >and Fe++ ions. This means you will continue to get a small amount of >power until the iron rod is completely rusted away. The actual source >of power is not the water, but the chemical energy that was put into >the iron when it was smelted. This came from coal. > > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 21:16:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA06292; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 21:13:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 21:13:43 -0800 Message-ID: <005c01be0092$c85fcf60$aa5cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: "KeelyNet Maillist" , "freenrg-l" Subject: Wayne Green on the radio tonight Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 22:43:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"rE-F81.0.0Y1.5K0Ds"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7289 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Wayne Green, publisher of "73" magazine, is supposed to be a guest on the Keith Lamonica show tonight at midnight EST on WBCQ, 7.415 MHz. I do NOT know what he's going to talk about, but he's written editorials on alternative science topics in his magazine. (Hopefully someone will call in and ask whether it's still being published.) -- "There are no authorities whatever. No president, academy, court of law, congress or senate on this earth has the power or the knowledge to decide what will be the knowledge of tomorrow." --Dr. Wilhelm Reich From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 22:04:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA01367; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 22:03:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 22:03:17 -0800 Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 21:04:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199810260504.VAA25499@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Hodowanec Detector Resent-Message-ID: <"yovbz3.0.EL.b21Ds"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7290 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Kyle and all, At 05:27 PM 10/25/98 -0800, you wrote: >All: > >I have tested Gregory Hodowanec's "Gravity Wave Detector." It does not >work as described. The basic detector just produces a steady background >hum, with no variations at all. The buffered detector, if tuned >properly, produces a "bump-bump-bump" sound that can be sped up or >slowed down by tuning the potentiometers. Loud squeals can also be >produced. These seem to in no way correlate with anything outside the >electronics of the detector. Has anyone here had any luck with these >circuits? Perhaps I have done something wrong. > >Kyle R. Mcallister > Well, I didn't listen to mine, just watched the output voltage on a DVM, so didn't get to heat your "bumps". Mine was plagued with slow drift, 10's mVolts/minute, which seemed thermal. For example breathing too close to it or the heat from my hand adjusting the "zero offset" pot would change things. All critical resistors were 1% for low drift. I used LF 351 op amps, maybe I should retry with better ones. The capacitors I tried were (in order of less random behavior) 1000 uF electrolytic (worst, also highest value) 47 uF tantalum 2 uF yellow flat (mylar?). Loud squeals sound like feedback. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Oct 25 22:40:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA13852; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 22:37:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 22:37:20 -0800 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: hydroxy experiments Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 05:38:57 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <363e0961.83115867@24.192.1.20> References: <3.0.5.32.19981024204211.0089dc20@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981024185428.00895cf0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981024204211.0089dc20@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981025155002.00897c40@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981025155002.00897c40@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JzfLo.0.HO3.VY1Ds"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7291 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 25 Oct 1998 15:50:02 -0800, trknute@earthlink.net wrote: [snip] >crux of my feelings. Where I may have been able to make something or >another work in practical science, it is totally disheartening to be >summarily rejected by those I would hold in high regard as having high >intelligence, without them once attempting to verify the results. If you look at my post again, you will notice that the second word is "suspect". That is exactly what I meant. I am not at all close minded with regard to new energy technologies, in fact most consider me to be a member of the "lunatic fringe". It's just that in this particular case, I _suspect_ that the explanation I gave is the most likely one. This should in no way deter people from trying it out. It just means that potential experimenters are alerted to a possible mundane explanation, so that they know what needs to be eliminated in order to prove that there is something extraordinary going on. > >Sorry > >TR Knudtson > > > > >At 10:50 PM 10/25/98 GMT, you wrote: >>On Sat, 24 Oct 1998 20:42:11 -0700, trknute@earthlink.net wrote: >> >>>No you do not realy need to seperate them by much because even a thin film >>>of water will produce the effects. Make your test cells individualy then >>>try differing conections of say, 24 cells. If you were to leave a single >>>cell of this type in a pan of water, you will see that it will slowly >>>discharge the ions in the pan over about an hour. This says to me that even >>>a mild flow of water can be a source of continuas energy. >>[snip] >>I suspect that you are just replacing H+ ions in the water with Fe+ >>and Fe++ ions. This means you will continue to get a small amount of >>power until the iron rod is completely rusted away. The actual source >>of power is not the water, but the chemical energy that was put into >>the iron when it was smelted. This came from coal. >> >> >>Regards, >> >>Robin van Spaandonk >> >> >> Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 26 00:35:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA10614; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 00:33:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 00:33:52 -0800 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981025223640.0089a160@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 22:36:40 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: hydroxy experiments In-Reply-To: <363e0961.83115867@24.192.1.20> References: <3.0.5.32.19981025155002.00897c40@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981024204211.0089dc20@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981024185428.00895cf0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981024204211.0089dc20@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981025155002.00897c40@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"gQCU_3.0.hb2.lF3Ds"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7292 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Is that all it is Robin? I would point out that the structure of silica is presently in use in nearly every form of ionic electron transfer in science. Silicon wafering in the foundation of semiconductor technologies, as far back to the first transistor. and is the prime material of all micro processors. Quarts, a mineral rich in silica, can even capture faint electromagnetic radio waves from the air, the core technology of the crystal radio. Solar cells derive their ion transfer abilities from this structure. And here, when I expound on an admittedly crude form of ion transfer experiment, of 95% silicate material, the house brick, why is it your first response to "suspect", as you put it, rather than to investigate. Will you be honest enough to respond to a challenge, that if you had heard that a well known laboratory, had developed a new ceramic that employed the use of silica to form a crystalline matrix that absorb free ions in flowing water, you may have responded differently? I may also point out that this forum is for science hobbyists, not PHD level individuals. By the way there is no sacrifice at the electrodes, and once again you avoid the obvious in not responding to my counter to your suspicions, that to immerse the electrodes in water, when only separated by some three inches, would short out any out-put voltage potential. Robin is it that you are so steeped in your study that you have lost all sense of adventure and discovery, or have you become like your study, a simple repository of facts. TR Knudtson At 05:38 AM 10/26/98 GMT, you wrote: >On Sun, 25 Oct 1998 15:50:02 -0800, trknute@earthlink.net wrote: >[snip] >>crux of my feelings. Where I may have been able to make something or >>another work in practical science, it is totally disheartening to be >>summarily rejected by those I would hold in high regard as having high >>intelligence, without them once attempting to verify the results. > >If you look at my post again, you will notice that the second word is >"suspect". That is exactly what I meant. I am not at all close minded >with regard to new energy technologies, in fact most consider me to be >a member of the "lunatic fringe". It's just that in this particular >case, I _suspect_ that the explanation I gave is the most likely one. >This should in no way deter people from trying it out. It just means >that potential experimenters are alerted to a possible mundane >explanation, so that they know what needs to be eliminated in order to >prove that there is something extraordinary going on. >> >>Sorry >> >>TR Knudtson >> >> >> >> >>At 10:50 PM 10/25/98 GMT, you wrote: >>>On Sat, 24 Oct 1998 20:42:11 -0700, trknute@earthlink.net wrote: >>> >>>>No you do not realy need to seperate them by much because even a thin film >>>>of water will produce the effects. Make your test cells individualy then >>>>try differing conections of say, 24 cells. If you were to leave a single >>>>cell of this type in a pan of water, you will see that it will slowly >>>>discharge the ions in the pan over about an hour. This says to me that even >>>>a mild flow of water can be a source of continuas energy. >>>[snip] >>>I suspect that you are just replacing H+ ions in the water with Fe+ >>>and Fe++ ions. This means you will continue to get a small amount of >>>power until the iron rod is completely rusted away. The actual source >>>of power is not the water, but the chemical energy that was put into >>>the iron when it was smelted. This came from coal. >>> >>> >>>Regards, >>> >>>Robin van Spaandonk >>> >>> >>> > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 26 01:20:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA19228; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 01:18:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 01:18:20 -0800 Message-ID: <36343028.F5F9CDE@GroupZ.net> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 03:17:44 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: hydroxy experiments References: <3.0.5.32.19981024185428.00895cf0@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5gFfx3.0.Mi4.Rv3Ds"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7293 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Still thinking about this...TR, how much power (e X i) can one expect to get (approximately) from one of these bricks ?? Since you know the voltage, I am sure you have played around with it to try and find the approximate current....thanks....steve trknute@earthlink.net wrote: > > Here is another one, for those of you that are working with Hydroxy > technologies. > > Remember I do not like over unity but rather am very interested in free of > cost, non polluting forms of energy. > > When you begin to work with Hydroxy you will see right off that this is > like no other heat source known to man. In the case of it's ability to > change molecular and linking bonds of materials. Now much of what you heard > is total crap but here is a very practical application that demonstrates a > here to untapped source of free of cost energy. > > Take and slice the end of a conventional house brick, about 1/2' thick. > Like you would slice it if it were a small loaf of bread. > > At diagonal corners slowly alloy into a pool of molten metal and silica, a > iron rod at one corner and a brass rod at the other. This is not easy to > do. Work the flame away slowly, allowing for the pool to cool slowly. > > If you obtain a good molecular bond, you will be soon able to tell, but if > it seams firm with no shifting of crackling at the juncture you probably > have done a good enough job of forming a bond. > > Now carefully lower the brick into a shallow pan of newly drawn tap water. > Read with a volt meter, across the electrodes. That's right electrodes. > You have just built a system that can tap the free ions of water, Direct > voltage from water. You should register about 2.4 to 2.8 volts of DC > potential. > > Free energy? Hell no! Nature has spent about a trillion Giga Watts of > energy in the form for atmospheric energy to give you that power. > > Now take it a step further and construct an array of these cells, place > them in a shallow tray and run your garden hose over them so that there is > a slight flow to the tray in one direction. Experiment with parallel and > series parallel connections. > > How much energy can you make this way? > > I don't know, how long is your river? > > Now will fallow the normal responses. > > Can algae attach itself the array thus negating the effects? > There are no rivers near where I Live! > What if a flood would come destroy the power station and wash the arrays > down stream? > Do you have any blueprints for a 2.4 megawatt power station using this > technology. > Where on the net can I find more information on these effects? > > All the best > > TR Knudtson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 26 02:04:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA00617; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 02:00:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 02:00:37 -0800 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: Subject: Re: Splitting Water Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:02:07 GMT Message-ID: <3635388e.3143790@mail.zip.com.au> References: <199810240029.UAA00364@surfergirl.spacey.net> In-Reply-To: <199810240029.UAA00364@surfergirl.spacey.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id CAA00588 Resent-Message-ID: <"nRypT2.0.T9.5X4Ds"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7294 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 23 Oct 1998 20:30:35 -0400, "dwenbert" wrote: >David: >I'm working on developing a similar test setup. So far the most useful >thing I've seen on any of the Meyer/Brown work has been the following short >paper and its schematics. It gives the resonant frequencies used by Meyer >for the high voltage, low current, high frequency pulsed DC required for >the effect to operate, together with the materials and geometry of the >construction. >Go Here: http://members.spree.com/aerp/free-energy/dan1.html If anyone's interested, I recently did a scan/ocr of the original Danforth article - the diagrams in particular are *much* clearer than the aerp site's copy. See: http://www.zip.com.au/~alansch/danforth/dan1.htm The original article promised a follow-up with actual test results. AFAIK this never eventuated. Neither have I ever heard of anyone actually building this system, or for that matter, of *anyone* successfully reproducing Stan Meyer's results. Does anyone on freenrg-l have knowledge of a successful replication of Meyers, or Danforth's systems? Cheers, Alan Schneider From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 26 06:35:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA27888; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:33:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:33:32 -0800 Message-ID: <36347E1B.661574A9@harti.com> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:50:19 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , Eric Krieg , freenrg-l Subject: Re: low grade heat to electricity converter ! References: <363074BF.EEB71773@harti.com> <3630B6A9.17CA@aasp.net> <36309676.57E9@earthlink.net> <3633D79E.42ADF6B4@voicenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3-tXW1.0.ep6.xW8Ds"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7295 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Eric Krieg wrote: > > Hi folks, > > Eric Krieg (the voice the Free Energy conspiracy is trying to stop) here: > According to the 2nd law of thermodynamics, there is no way to take latent > heat and turn it into useable energy with out harnessing it on a downward flow > from hot to cold. If you read the articles from Dieter Bauer at: http://www.overunity.com/theory.htm and understand them too, then you are able to see, that the "2nd law" "axiom" is nothing but an axiom, which is only valid for some cases, but NOT FOR ALL CASES ! >The leading FE person to disagree with this is Dennis Lee > who claims to have done it with a heat pump and heat engine - more on that at: > http://www.syc.org/e/dennis.html Well, as this guy has a lot of "religious blabla" in his claims, I would also probably don´t trust him... As I heard he also did not show any conclusive demos yet of his technology... Another way to to convert low grade heat to higher mechanical energy is the use of the Serogodski cycle using binare 2 gas mixtures like CO2 combined with N2 under high pressure. This is also a right turning energy cycle conversion which outputs energy instead of consuming energy ! Bernhard Schaeffer from the Workshop of dencentral energy research e.V./Gerlin, Germany has done lately the proof of this system and it will be presented in the 29th of October ARTE TV-channel in Germany starting at 20:45 Uhr (8:45 pm). His WEB site is at: http://www.schaeffer-apparatebau.de I bet, the energy cycle report at: http://www.schaeffer-apparatebau.de/Konstrukt.htm is not yet online there, but probably soon. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 26 12:27:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA12548 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:27:33 -0800 Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:27:33 -0800 X-Envelope-From: markland@rockisland.com Mon Oct 26 12:27:29 1998 Received: from cronus.rockisland.com (root@cronus.rockisland.com [199.217.72.1]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12440 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:27:29 -0800 Received: from markland (nts68.rockisland.com [199.217.72.151]) by cronus.rockisland.com (8.8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA11069 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:29:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981026011557.0167f100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Old-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 01:15:57 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 In-Reply-To: References: <199810150210.WAA12553@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: Thanks Rick, what I said, but not so vividly and definitely much more interesting than my preaching rant :) Lee At 06:23 PM 10/14/98 -1000, you wrote: >Harvey - > > > You wrote: Yes and praise Ishtar in her > > battle against YVHV the evil god? What is the > > possible meaning of your prognosis? > >YVHV was a genocidal monster from back in the really "old days". Flew >around in a shining UFO bombing and burning the cities of ordinary humans. >Some of his murderous exploits on this planet are fairly well documented in >the Bible. It's a shame that this criminal's persona was later merged with >that of the big Universal Christian God in the same book, who by most >reports is a nice guy. > >Ishtar was a serious Babe, and a staunch defender of humanity. I hope this >lovely warrior killed that bastard YVHV; the stories from that time are >pretty fragmented and hard to understand. There are some nice old images >still around showing her in her military gear, flight goggles and all. > >. . . > >Hey, it could literally be true - what do we know? We're like babies, a few >hundred years out of the mud of the dark ages, with little or no collective >memory of what came long before, or what sort of 'visitors' we may have >entertained. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 26 12:27:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA12694 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:27:37 -0800 Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:27:37 -0800 X-Envelope-From: markland@rockisland.com Mon Oct 26 12:27:33 1998 Received: from cronus.rockisland.com (root@cronus.rockisland.com [199.217.72.1]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12556 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:27:33 -0800 Received: from markland (nts68.rockisland.com [199.217.72.151]) by cronus.rockisland.com (8.8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA11073 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:29:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981026011703.0167f620@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Old-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 01:17:03 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 In-Reply-To: <199810150441.AAA22215@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: At 02:44 AM 10/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >Sorry Rick, I didnt write that. Apparently Lee slipped that in with or >without my consternation. I appropriately noted this to Lee. By the way is >Lee a woman? The quote was from an Oct 13th post from Evan Soule with initials N.B. Why, may I ask, is it so important to identify my gender? It seems to me that you have some personal problem, vis a vis, stereotypes, expectations, role playings. Is that so? Has to be. I never ever concern myself with the gender, race, age, or anything else of folk whom I meet on the internet. When it comes to a meeting of minds, or examination and/or exchange of intellectual processes - none of those things matter. Or at least they shouldn't matter to a healthy and mature intellect. Lee >I thought I heard other derivatives.Sincerly without confusion HDN >mnorris@akron.infi.net >---------- >> From: Rick Monteverde >> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> Subject: Re: DePalma/Champion ... and then there were 2 >> Date: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 11:23 PM >> >> Harvey - >> >> > You wrote: Yes and praise Ishtar in her >> > battle against YVHV the evil god? What is the >> > possible meaning of your prognosis? >> >> YVHV was a genocidal monster from back in the really "old days". Flew >> around in a shining UFO bombing and burning the cities of ordinary >humans. >> Some of his murderous exploits on this planet are fairly well documented >in >> the Bible. It's a shame that this criminal's persona was later merged >with >> that of the big Universal Christian God in the same book, who by most >> reports is a nice guy. >> >> Ishtar was a serious Babe, and a staunch defender of humanity. I hope >this >> lovely warrior killed that bastard YVHV; the stories from that time are >> pretty fragmented and hard to understand. There are some nice old images >> still around showing her in her military gear, flight goggles and all. >> >> . . . >> >> Hey, it could literally be true - what do we know? We're like babies, a >few >> hundred years out of the mud of the dark ages, with little or no >collective >> memory of what came long before, or what sort of 'visitors' we may have >> entertained. >> >> - Rick Monteverde >> Honolulu, HI >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 26 12:27:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA12830 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:27:41 -0800 Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:27:41 -0800 X-Envelope-From: markland@rockisland.com Mon Oct 26 12:27:38 1998 Received: from cronus.rockisland.com (root@cronus.rockisland.com [199.217.72.1]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12714 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:27:37 -0800 Received: from markland (nts68.rockisland.com [199.217.72.151]) by cronus.rockisland.com (8.8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA11095 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:29:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981026022459.016805c0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Old-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 02:24:59 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Art Bell show discontinued??? In-Reply-To: <199810150453.VAA10028@mailhub2.ncal.verio.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: At 09:59 PM 10/14/98 -0700, you wrote: >My local newpaper reports that Art Bell has gone into hiding. His phone >has been disconnected, and he has stopped doing his radio show. > >Anyone know anything about this situation? > >Norm Rick Jackson wrote: Anomalies & Enigmas List -------------------------------- Early on yesterday, I sent a message to KOH, our local affiliate. I just got this back from News Director Dan Mason. They're going to stick with the show for now hoping Art comes back. If he doesn't, maybe the network will pick up where Art left off with a new host, although I really fear they'll go back to the "tried & true" polictical drivel and we'll have to suffer through long discussions about Monica Lewinsky. You won't listen, of course, but as a graveyard worker, Art was my longtime companion in the night. >Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:02:11 -0700 >From: Dan Mason >Organization: News Radio 780 KOH >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) >To: Rick Jackson >Subject: Re: Art Bell Shocker > >Rick, > >Regarding Art Bell: The network says it is not a hoax. They are talking to >Art and hoping to resolve all of this and get him back on the air. We'll just >have to wait and see. > >Dan Mason > >Rick Jackson wrote: > >> Any idea what you'll replace Art Bell with in light of his retirement >> announcement? This was a real shocker, and I suspect something happened >> during his break that scared him. At the beginning of his show, he was >> expressing optimism about future plans and announcing new affiliates. >> >> Have you been in contact with his network? Is it possible that Art will be >> back on the air after he's cooled off? Rick Jackson, Reno, NV....proud to be "soft on crime!" From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 26 15:14:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA15130; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:05:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:05:32 -0800 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 05:07:16 +0100 Message-Id: <199810270407.FAA10346@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: WDBAUER@pop3.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) Subject: Gravitational Converter article withdrawn Resent-Message-ID: <"nsFNu2.0.Gi3.x0GDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7296 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All ! I want to inform all that I withdraw my gravitational article at Stefan Hartmanns overunity server http://www.overunity.com/gb/gb2.htm. The cause of this are experimental informations which point to usual energy conservation behavior of this machine. Therefore the article will go off from the net. In the meantime I found a force diagram with coincides with the experimental informations as well. Sorry, I am here not before but after the experiment with the theoretical explanation. I am still in the learning state in this respect. If anybody is interested in this information he can email me privately, he will get the corrected force diagrams for discussion in a Zip-file. But it will last a while. Best regards Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 26 15:25:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA21965; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:21:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:21:03 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:21:47 -0700 From: "bob macelvain" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: Gravitational Converter article withdrawn X-Sender-Ip: 209.12.236.205 Organization: MailCity (http://www.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VJqGE3.0.6N5.UFGDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7297 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ... dieter... ... ... per your post, sure would like to have a zip copy of your file... ... ... thanks... ... ... bob macelvain@hotmail.com On Tue, 27 Oct 1998 05:07:16 W.D. BAUER wrote: >Hi All ! > >I want to inform all that I withdraw my gravitational article at Stefan >Hartmanns overunity server http://www.overunity.com/gb/gb2.htm. >The cause of this are experimental informations which point to usual energy >conservation behavior of this machine. Therefore the article will go off >from the net. >In the meantime I found a force diagram with coincides with the experimental >informations as well. >Sorry, I am here not before but after the experiment with the theoretical >explanation. I am still in the learning state in this respect. If anybody is >interested in this information he can email me privately, he will get the >corrected force diagrams for discussion in a Zip-file. But it will last a >while. > >Best regards > >Dieter Bauer > > Get your FREE E-mail at http://mailcity.lycos.com Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://personal.lycos.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 26 15:32:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA27201; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:27:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:27:57 -0800 Message-ID: <004a01be0130$360667c0$66298e8b@plassy> From: "Plasmatic" To: Subject: Re: hydroxy experiments Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 16:30:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA26995 Resent-Message-ID: <"-mpUo.0.ie6.zLGDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7298 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'd love to make one of these models, and help improve on it maybe, except for one problem: Where can I find out more on Hydroxy production? :) Everytime I do a search for "hydroxy" I get stuff like Beta Hydroxy and Alpha Hydroxy and 5-HTP and other Hydr oxy compounds, but never anything on the actually chemical Hydroxy itself. Can you offer any help? Thanks ;) -Plasmatic Plas@Dlcwest.Com -----Original Message----- From: trknute@earthlink.net To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: October 25, 1998 2:50 AM Subject: hydroxy experiments >Here is another one, for those of you that are working with Hydroxy >technologies. > >Remember I do not like over unity but rather am very interested in free of >cost, non polluting forms of energy. > >When you begin to work with Hydroxy you will see right off that this is >like no other heat source known to man. In the case of it's ability to >change molecular and linking bonds of materials. Now much of what you heard >is total crap but here is a very practical application that demonstrates a >here to untapped source of free of cost energy. > >Take and slice the end of a conventional house brick, about 1/2' thick. >Like you would slice it if it were a small loaf of bread. > >At diagonal corners slowly alloy into a pool of molten metal and silica, a >iron rod at one corner and a brass rod at the other. This is not easy to >do. Work the flame away slowly, allowing for the pool to cool slowly. > >If you obtain a good molecular bond, you will be soon able to tell, but if >it seams firm with no shifting of crackling at the juncture you probably >have done a good enough job of forming a bond. > >Now carefully lower the brick into a shallow pan of newly drawn tap water. >Read with a volt meter, across the electrodes. That's right electrodes. >You have just built a system that can tap the free ions of water, Direct >voltage from water. You should register about 2.4 to 2.8 volts of DC >potential. > > >Free energy? Hell no! Nature has spent about a trillion Giga Watts of >energy in the form for atmospheric energy to give you that power. > >Now take it a step further and construct an array of these cells, place >them in a shallow tray and run your garden hose over them so that there is >a slight flow to the tray in one direction. Experiment with parallel and >series parallel connections. > >How much energy can you make this way? > >I don't know, how long is your river? > > > >Now will fallow the normal responses. > >Can algae attach itself the array thus negating the effects? >There are no rivers near where I Live! >What if a flood would come destroy the power station and wash the arrays >down stream? >Do you have any blueprints for a 2.4 megawatt power station using this >technology. >Where on the net can I find more information on these effects? > >All the best > >TR Knudtson > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 26 16:52:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA01309; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 16:47:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 16:47:12 -0800 Message-ID: <36350A07.CC3B8624@GroupZ.net> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 18:47:19 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" , KeelyNet , "vortex-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Y2K/Goverment/Free energy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-oP8-3.0.LK.FWHDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7299 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Assuming the government and corporations, come to the conclusion, sometime in 1999, that "TheEndOfTheWorldAs WeKnowIt (TEOTWASKI), is a good possibility. Assuming that the government has research on free energy, and some sort of free energy theory/device. If the above assumptions are correct, can we expect the release of some sort of free energy device in 1999. If released in what form and where might one look for it (am also assuming it would not be released directly). Maybe not free energy but highly efficient, inexpensive generator? Any thoughts or comments appreciated....steven opelc From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 26 16:53:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA00266; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 16:49:35 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 16:49:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 16:41:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199810270041.QAA16262@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Hodowanec Detector Resent-Message-ID: <"NeEDd.0.44.TYHDs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7300 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:38 PM 10/25/98 -0800, you wrote: >Rick Monteverde wrote: > >> Sounded sort of like popcorn popping in a closed container? > Can someone please tell me the magazine issue where Hodowanec's gravity detector article was. I think it was in "Radio Electronics", but it may have been "Popular Electronics". Thanks, -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 08:43:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA07954 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 08:43:17 -0800 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 08:43:17 -0800 X-Envelope-From: leep@world.std.com Tue Oct 27 08:43:04 1998 Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA07903; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 08:43:03 -0800 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id KAA08430; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:43:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA17761; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:43:51 -0500 Old-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:43:50 -0500 (EST) From: leep systems To: "Dennis C. Lee" Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Alan.CHEAH@adecco.com, alex@frolov.spb.ru, ahannan@MIT.EDU, deadnuts@deadnuts.com, apple pie , lupem@world.std.com, antigravity@primenet.com, bcarter@igc.apc.com, dbishop@beaconres.com, peg@wintergreen.com, billb@eskimo.com, wrick@ingr.com, bso@acm.org, blau@bluerock.com, bgh@wtn.ionics.com, bruce.pardoe@autodesk.com, byrun_fox@mindlink.bc.ca, claudeg@world.std.com, DaleSVP@ipa.net, danyork@iadfw.net, dtassen@c-zone.net, sweetser@world.std.com, clsmith@darwin.bu.edu, ccantor@sequenom.com, 76753.3551@compuserve.com, eben@ergeng.com, ehill@world.std.com, ejp@world.std.com, wordpros@inforamp.net, fstenger@interlaced.net, moy@ziplink.net, gjcheah@guybutler.com, wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu, hic@world.std.com, ives@ccs.neu.edu Subject: Re: Planetary Gyroscopic Balance Idiocy In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19981027091808.00e07840@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Dennis-- I'm really sick of this nonsense and appalled at the ignorance of elementary physics that allows it to propagate. NOTHING will twist the rotational axis of the earth perceptibly except collision with another heavenly object having enormous mass. Such a collision could destroy everything on the earth and and vaporize the oceans and still might not alter the rotational axis much. Gravitational forces cannot do it because they act on the center of mass and provide no torque. They could pull us out of the solar system without the least effect on the axis of rotation. (See the Monke wrench in my mail of Mar 30, 1996) The heavenly alignments can have no effect. Drifting of the magnetic and geographical poles of course results from continental drift. Plate techtonics has been well established in the last decade or so. But it describes a VERY SLOW process. The rotational axis coincides with the angular momentum of the earth, which is a vector having a direction that can be altered only by a torque or by the gain or loss of mass having a differently directed angular momentum vector. Complete melting of the ice cap only changes the shape of the crust a little, but the iron and silicon mass of the Earth spins on unaffected, serene, indifferent. Angular momentum is preserved, sacred. As I said before, even if you wanted to try to twist the axis, there is nothing on Earth to hook a wrench up to, even if you had a place to stand. Please send me no more of this stuff!!! --Eric LEEP Systems, Inc. Outfitters for Other Worlds leep@world.std.com 501 Gleasondale Road 978-897-0208 Stow, MA 01775-0628 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 09:00:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA11543 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 09:00:26 -0800 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 09:00:26 -0800 X-Envelope-From: sweetser@world.std.com Tue Oct 27 09:00:17 1998 Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA11467; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 09:00:15 -0800 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA11529; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 11:00:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from world.std.com by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA16023; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:59:50 -0500 Message-Id: <3635EDB9.63D0BB1C@world.std.com> Old-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:58:49 -0500 From: Doug Sweetser X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: leep systems Cc: "Dennis C. Lee" , freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Alan.CHEAH@adecco.com, alex@frolov.spb.ru, ahannan@MIT.EDU, deadnuts@deadnuts.com, apple pie , lupem@world.std.com, antigravity@primenet.com, bcarter@igc.apc.com, dbishop@beaconres.com, peg@wintergreen.com, billb@eskimo.com, wrick@ingr.com, bso@acm.org, blau@bluerock.com, bgh@wtn.ionics.com, bruce.pardoe@autodesk.com, byrun_fox@mindlink.bc.ca, claudeg@world.std.com, DaleSVP@ipa.net, danyork@iadfw.net, dtassen@c-zone.net, clsmith@darwin.bu.edu, ccantor@sequenom.com, 76753.3551@compuserve.com, eben@ergeng.com, ehill@world.std.com, ejp@world.std.com, wordpros@inforamp.net, fstenger@interlaced.net, moy@ziplink.net, gjcheah@guybutler.com, wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu, hic@world.std.com, ives@ccs.neu.edu Subject: Re: Planetary Gyroscopic Balance Idiocy References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Hello Dennis: Please remove my name also. I keep my work with quaternions as close as possible to standard equations. Good luck with your efforts, but it is not conservative enough for my time. Doug http://world.com/~sweetser leep systems wrote: > Please send me no more of this stuff!!! > > --Eric From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 26 19:23:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA18366; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:13:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:13:33 -0800 Message-ID: <36355437.102@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 21:03:51 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hodowanec Detector References: <3633E0C0.180CE770@sunherald.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"83nzi1.0.uU4.TfJDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7301 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > > Rick Monteverde wrote: > > > Sounded sort of like popcorn popping in a closed container? > > Just like that. Good description! Then its not operating correctly. Popcorn noise is not the correct output from a Hodowanec detector. The signal should be rather wide in bandwidth, and very noisy. The circuit should not be oscillating, but be very 'tweaky', where large noise pulses show strong signs of 'ringing'. Over a speaker, it should sound raspy, with soft warbling tones way down deep in the noise. > > I only got mine > > tuned correctly once and got that sound. That's what is supposedly signal > > from space. I think it's astounding that by turning a pot we can speed up > > the death of distant stars. > > Wow, the perfect defence system. You bother us, we'll blow your star up! > ;-) Sure, lots of outrageous claims, but lets be fair here. Where is the reference that the 'popcorn' sound is the supposed signal? > > The only other time I saw interesting signal on the scope and tried listening > > to it on headphones, it turned out to be bits and pieces of bass lines from > > a song on an AM radio station. Ahh, this rather disqualifies your testing! It has to be shielded. Very well shielded in fact, or it simply will not operate correctly. Not that the circuit is all that good, but it does work if properly constructed. > Yes, I detected snippets of a Willie Nelson song a few days ago. Wow, its malfunctioning far worse than I ever thought possible. Next you will tune into the Rap Music dimension! > > Seriously, maybe some components can or do react to scalar waves or > > something in detectors like these. But ordinary thermal random effects are > > so overwhelming, it's obvious these things don't work as practical > > detectors of such signals as Hodowanec claimed. > > I'm planning to try this circuit out again by pulling the 1458 out and > replacing it with a TL082. Might work better? This was recommended in a > file by Bob Shannon I saw somewhere. > > Kyle R. Mcallister Yep, the info is on Bill's web site. You need to shield the Hodowanec circuit, use good layout and excellent grounding practices, and decouple any external power leads. Even then its fussy and tempremental. It is not a 'practical' detector on the best of days I agree, but again, it does work, to a degree. As far as any extraterrestrial contact, consider Mr. Hodowanec working into the late hours on this circuit. Weird, almost melodic signal begin to emerge from the noise, either already there, or constructed by the clever wiring of all our brains, designed to find patterns where none exist. Clearly under these conditions, Mr. Hodowanec was a prime canidate for experiencing a psychotronic effect from long exposure to this stimuli. >From that point on, you can either dismiss the claims, or investigate them. Either way, we should not dismiss them as popcorn noise without references. The few descriptions I have read do not describe this type of sound, and this is not at all what I expect from a well constructed Hodowanec circuit (ha, an oxymoron I admit). From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 26 21:43:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA27418; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 21:30:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 21:30:11 -0800 Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:28:08 -0600 (CST) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Hodowanec Detector To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <199810270041.QAA16262@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"xCREZ3.0.og6.4fLDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7302 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 26 Oct 1998, dave dameron wrote: > At 06:38 PM 10/25/98 -0800, you wrote: > >Rick Monteverde wrote: > > > >> Sounded sort of like popcorn popping in a closed container? > > > Can someone please tell me the magazine issue where Hodowanec's gravity > detector article was. I think it was in "Radio Electronics", but it may have > been "Popular Electronics". > Thanks, > -Dave > I have it right here in front of me. It was in Radio-Electronics, April 1996, page 53. There was a followup article in Radio-Electronics, July 1996, page 52. - Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 26 20:50:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA15818; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:37:48 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:37:48 -0800 (PST) From: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca Message-Id: <199810270433.XAA20877@romeo.its.uwo.ca> X-Sender: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 23:26:22 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, dennisgarrett@webtv.net (Dennis Garrett) Subject: Re: Splitting Water In-Reply-To: <5375-362DEC3A-864@mailtod-172.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"r5nDT3.0.4t3.BuKDs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7303 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dennis and all, Have you seen U.S. Patent 5,089,107 available on the IBM patent site. BI-POLAR AUTO ELECTROLYTIC HYDROGEN GENERATOR Inventor: Francisco Pacheco, Hewitt, NJ 07421 ABSTRACT An autoelectrolytic hydrogen generator system constituted by one or a plurality of similar cells wherein a galvanic arrangement of magnesium and aluminum plates of sacrificial elements as anode; stainless steel as cathode and sea water as electrolyte, by its very nature is made to develop a voltage when connected in short circuit causing a current to flow within the system and hydrogen production of hydrogen in situ and on demand by the electrolytic action at one pole, the cathode, and additional hydrogen by the electrochemical reaction at the other pole, the anode. Surplus electric energy of the system applied to a optional electrolyzer will also be made to produce additional hydrogen at its two sacrificial aluminum electrodes. Now the question is where can one get Magnesium and is it expensive? Thought it was very reactive and would burst into flames on contact with moisture??? Chris Gupta At 07:14 AM 10/21/98 -0700, Dennis Garrett wrote: >an alloy of magnesium and aluminum immersed in water will split water >into hydrogen and oxygen as it disolves. i just don't know the >efficiencys. i have heard that some big name companies are putting a lot >of money into research on it though. >does anyone else know anything about it? >Dennis > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Oct 26 22:24:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA20172; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:17:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:17:08 -0800 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981026131351.008a1100@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 13:13:51 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Engine modification, Hydrogen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"H-jVX3.0.0x4.ZLMDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7304 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Conversion of internal combustion motors to the use of hydrogen. Basically there are three things to keep in mind, carburetor, compression and ignition. Carburetors: For the carburetor, I in 1978, chose the diaphragm actuated spring compensated "stacker" type system used on fork lifts for the use of propane fuels, and conventional gasoline. It has a conical shaped inlet valve that allows for smoothly graduated intakes of hydrogen fuel, the delivery hose for the fuel is about 3/4" in diameter, offering a large flow of feed at low pressures. This carburetor operates by allowing manifold vacuum, to close the inlet of the carburetor. As the butterfly assemblies on the normal gasoline carburetor open, vacuum is lost and the springs open the inlet meter. It is easy and simple. For testing, the fact that this type of vaporous gas carburetor sits atop your normal carburetor means, that you still can start the engine on normal and use fuel change over valves to switch to hydrogen fuels. Or back and forth. The cost of this carburetor in 1978 was $96.00 Compression: Hydrogen because of its rapid burn rates, generates about 5 times the specific impulse of gasoline. In 1978, the normal compression for most engines was about 11 to 13 to 1, compression ratios. Since the advent of emission controls that norm has been reduced to 7 or 8 to 1. That is precisely what is needed. Hydrogen comes to full burn and maximum pressure much more quickly than conventional fuels. This is also the feature that offers greater power output, you simply have more pressure for a longer duration of the power stroke. To reduce the compression of the original test V8 we merely shimmed the heads with two head gaskets. A side issue, is cam duration most conventionally fueled engines have a period of time where both the exhaust and intake valves are both open. This is for total evacuation of the cylinder of spent gasses. Check the cam duration and opening spec. charts, for your specific engine and regrind the cam lobes to eliminate the issue. This will do much to reduce back fireing. Ignition: The persistent issue of carburetor flash back was eliminated by, setting the timing, at well past high dead center. This also is a common setting today in the de-tuned engines used to meet emission standards. All in all, the main thing to remember is that all IC engines actually run on air. Air is the expansive material that give engines their power, moisture in that air only assists in the development of that power. If you look at the fuel as only a heat source, to expand that incoming air your adaptation to this fuel makes much more sense. The other thing in favor of hydrogen fuel for autos, is 100% pure burn and no pollutants. A side note about eventual storage of hydrogen fuel. I personally opt for metal hydride storage, it is clean safe and space efficient. Canisters or tanks of hydride material store the gas at low pressures, and the advent of a total discharge of the storage volume is totally eliminated, Cycle lives of 10,000 or more have been tested with no loss to hydrogen capacity. I also remind you that this method was chosen my General Motors in their 1963 testing. I hope this gets some of you off in the right direction. All the best TR Knudtson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 01:49:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA14169; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 01:48:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 01:48:43 -0800 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36355437.102@tiac.net> References: <3633E0C0.180CE770@sunherald.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:47:18 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Hodowanec Detector Resent-Message-ID: <"-GQI1.0.IT3.xRPDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7305 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob - > Then its not operating correctly. Popcorn > noise is not the correct output from a > Hodowanec detector. PFFfffffff...wubble..hiss...PFFfffffff...wububahhssssss - sort of a boiling staticy noise like popcorn sizzling and softly popping in a thick walled kettle so it's well muffled? > Over a speaker, it should sound raspy, with > soft warbling tones way down deep in the > noise. I think that's it, and we have very different ways of describing the same thing. Your description above describes what I heard too. It's what I'd call that very muffled popping sound. Not sure then if that's what the audio folks call popcorn noise, but I thought that it was. I can't remember where I saw it in reference to Hodowanec circuits, or for that matter even if I did. If I can think of it, I'll post. I think Kyle was on the right track. The article in Radio Electronics of April 1986 says that when the circuit is in what the article calls "ringing mode" it happens, and that you *can* tune to different frequencies as Kyle has done. I'm still skeptical on this. I got interesting results from the capacitor experiments I did, but they seemed to be due to the result of local thermal activity. I'm pretty sure that something odd happens in capacitors, and at the very least it does appear to be a weak form of 'free', or pervasive space energy. At best it's 3DTV broadcasts from Out There. Who knows? I think there is a genuine anomaly here waiting for a good explanation. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 02:10:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA19159; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 02:09:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 02:09:26 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981027091808.00e07840@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:18:08 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Alan.CHEAH@adecco.com, alex@frolov.spb.ru, ahannan@MIT.EDU, deadnuts@deadnuts.com, "apple pie" , lupem@world.std.com, antigravity@primenet.com, bcarter@igc.apc.com, dbishop@beaconres.com, peg@wintergreen.com, billb@eskimo.com, wrick@ingr.com, bso@acm.org, blau@bluerock.com, bgh@wtn.ionics.com, bruce.pardoe@autodesk.com, byrun_fox@mindlink.bc.ca, claudeg@world.std.com, DaleSVP@ipa.net, danyork@iadfw.net, dtassen@c-zone.net, sweetser@world.std.com, clsmith@darwin.bu.edu, ccantor@sequenom.com, 76753.3551@CompuServe.COM, eben@ergeng.com, ehill@world.std.com, Eric Howlett , ejp@world.std.com, wordpros@inforamp.net, fstenger@interlaced.net, moy@ziplink.net, gjcheah@guybutler.com, wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu, hic@world.std.com, ives@ccs.neu.edu From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Planetary Gyroscopic Balance (was Re: Most needed inventions) Resent-Message-ID: <"XaDxN.0.Hh4.MlPDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7306 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi; There have been many books written about the planetary alignment happening on 5/5/2000. They ALL say that the last time this happened 6000 years ago, the South Pole Icecap slipped and repositioned itself at what was the equator due to the gyroscopic forces of the Earth's spin. Some calculate that the ice mass attained velocities of 1600 MPH. This seems a reasonable number because the equator speed, due to the Earth's rotation, is about 1000 MPH relative to our frame of reference. The axis of the Earth itself changed during the icecap shift. The atmosphere couldn't keep up with the Earth so the vacuum of space reached the surface in some places. This may explain why there were found INSTANTLY frozen animals in perfectly preserved condition at the Arctic regions. This condition really concerns me. If the technology were available, I would say that reshaping, and reducing in mass to a large extent, the South Pole Icecap is a wise thing to do. Why aren't the governments of the world doing this? Maybe because they don't know, too busy fighting one another (for pivot points?) or are too busy digging enormous underground refuge accomodations for if and when the icecap slips. For those who will be left out to fend for themselves, I would say that we should be allowed to acquire the technology to try the South Pole Icecap facelift idea. Maybe we'd get fewer earthquakes if the Earth were in good gyroscopic balance? It's time to stop worrying about repercussions from those trying to stop Free Energy and Antigravity technology. They have their hideouts to protect themselves during such a catastrophy all ready and probably comfy. We paid for these accomodations but we won't be invited to these shelters. Dennis C. Lee Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 03:40:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA32147; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 03:38:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 03:38:31 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981027104736.00e06abc@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 05:47:36 -0500 To: energy@gold.globalcafe.co.uk, vortex-l@eskimo.com, quantum@iol.ie From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: More on Eccles Cell Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id DAA32124 Resent-Message-ID: <"pE4j82.0.Cs7.t2RDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7307 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi; In plain English, are you trying to say: At 06:57 PM 10/25/98 +0000, John Allan wrote: >A natural follow on from Suzi Wong's mail. > >I tried to trace Chris Eccles but got a reply from a woman who said she >did not know him. > >I did how ever find postings of his on alt.foreplay and br.masoch under >the title " Caning and Pain ". People who are accepted to this technology need a very high level of tolerance? One way may be this weird S&M thing? Couldn't another way be the study of Martial Arts? One's physical and emotional endurance is built with martial arts practice, without generating Black Negative Energy in one's life force energy field. I don't free spar or imagine an opponent when practicing. Positive energy units plus negative energy units equals zero. >• Mr Whitney, if you have any up to date news on Eccles I would be >interested to receive it, as would I substantiation of your claims and >evidence of your contracting with Stan Meyer. The fact that Stan Meyer ran screaming 'they finally poisoned me' just before he died, indicates that if the brain condition was caused by someone, it may have been Mr. Whitney? Could you give more background on this person? Also, do you have the background on the creeps who just decided to try to pull some very unethical fast ones on Professor Searl? Regards; Dennis Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 03:40:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA32533; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 03:38:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 03:38:49 -0800 Message-ID: <003e01be0196$29aa4760$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: [Off Topic] Planetary Gyroscopic Balance Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:39:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"XHhMt2.0.9y7.83RDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7308 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dennis and All -----Original Message----- From: Dennis C. Lee >There have been many books written about the planetary alignment happening >on 5/5/2000. They ALL say that the last time this happened 6000 years ago, >the South Pole Icecap slipped and repositioned itself at what was the >equator due to the gyroscopic forces of the Earth's spin. Some calculate >that the ice mass attained velocities of 1600 MPH. This seems a reasonable >number because the equator speed, due to the Earth's rotation, is about 1000 >MPH relative to our frame of reference. The axis of the Earth itself changed >during the icecap shift. Sorry for being pessimistic but I fail to understand why or how a planetary alignment could cause slippage of the South Pole Icecap. The moon attracts more mass (in the oceans) towards itself every day without any undesirable effects even though it is disrupting the gyroscopic balance of the planet. >This condition really concerns me. If the technology were available, I would say that >reshaping, and reducing in mass to a large extent, the South Pole Icecap is a wise thing >to do. Why aren't the governments of the world doing this? How about producing large amounts of CO2 to increase the greenhouse effect? :-) Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 04:21:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA10800; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:19:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:19:02 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981027112805.00e1b034@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 06:28:05 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Splitting Water Cc: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, vortex-L@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"UVPAE2.0.Me2.qeRDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7309 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi; To get full performance from electrolysis, the electrodes must be designed such that its' mass contributes to the process. Keely's work has a concept of mass chord. CAN ANYONE PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW THE MASS CHORD OF AN OBJECT IS DETERMINED? Dennis C. Lee At 11:26 PM 10/26/98 -0500, you wrote: >Have you seen U.S. Patent 5,089,107 available on the IBM patent site. > > BI-POLAR AUTO ELECTROLYTIC HYDROGEN GENERATOR > Inventor: Francisco Pacheco, Hewitt, NJ 07421 Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 04:34:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA15387; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:33:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:33:48 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981027114241.00e10a18@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 06:42:41 -0500 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Oscillator Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net Resent-Message-ID: <"YJgRt.0.Hm3.hsRDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7310 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi; Adjust the mass chord of the electrodes to the desired resonance frequency? COULD SOMEBODY PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW TO DETERMINE THE MASS CHORD OF AN OBJECT? Dennis C. Lee At 02:51 AM 10/27/98 GMT, you wrote: >Does anyone know of an electronic device, capable of forming part of >an oscillator circuit, in which the mass of the charged particles >involved plays a critical role in the frequency of oscillation? >(Something involving a magnetic field perhaps?) > > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk > > > Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 05:06:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA23261; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 05:04:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 05:04:49 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981027121349.00e09f00@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:13:49 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: [Off Topic] Planetary Gyroscopic Balance Resent-Message-ID: <"roN6u1.0.Lh5.mJSDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7311 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi; At 10:39 AM 10/27/98 -0000, you wrote: >Sorry for being pessimistic I'm just adding more important reasons as to why we should be allowed to work. >but I fail to understand why or how a planetary >alignment could cause slippage of the South Pole Icecap. Scientific evidence shows that this happened before at the last similar planet alignment 6000 years ago. >The moon attracts more mass (in the oceans) towards itself every day without >any undesirable effects even though it is disrupting the gyroscopic balance >of the planet. I don't think that we have a complete understanding of gravity. Why does the ocean well up on opposite sides of the Earth from these tide forces? A web search will produce many more anomolous features of gravity. This alignment will also cause excess energy output variations from the sun (cycle 23). >>This condition really concerns me. If the technology were available, I >would say that >reshaping, and reducing in mass to a large extent, the South >Pole Icecap is a wise thing >to do. Why aren't the governments of the world >doing this? > >How about producing large amounts of CO2 to increase the greenhouse effect? >:-) How about the powers that be letting us develop this technology so we can trim off the excess from the icecap? Some say that a supernova or a large close passing meteor may also dislodge the icecap. Global warming is difficult to control (input changes takes years to manifest) and makes the land to ice interface of the icecap more slippery. Regards; Dennis C. Lee Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 05:12:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA07953; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 05:08:45 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 05:08:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981027130800.00e05258@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 08:08:00 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Engine modification, Hydrogen Resent-Message-ID: <"0VjwT2.0.By1.RNSDs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7312 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi; At 01:13 PM 10/26/98 -0800, you wrote: >Conversion of internal combustion motors to the use of hydrogen. >Compression: Don't forget hardened high temp valve seats for the older engines. Propane requires this, I assume hydrogen does also? >A side note about eventual storage of hydrogen fuel. In 1912, Langmuir discovered that LEAD AMALGAM cathodes produced "nascent" (atomic) hydrogen. Atomic hydrogen releases 3.75 times the BTU's by weight as ordinary hydrogen does in the combustion process. Dr. Gerald Schafflander created a liquid hydride system which was suppressed. It probably works well. Dennis C. Lee Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 07:01:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA29707; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 06:59:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 06:59:50 -0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19981027130800.00e05258@popd.ix.netcom.com> References: Conversation <1.5.4.32.19981027130800.00e05258@popd.ix.netcom.com> with last message <1.5.4.32.19981027130800.00e05258@popd.ix.netcom.com> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: "FREE ENERGY" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Mike Connolly" Subject: Re: Engine modification, Hydrogen Date: Tue, 27 Oct 98 08:01:38 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"t4W1U2.0.1G7.b_TDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7313 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: sirs: where could I find some info on converting a (relatively) modern fuel-injected 4- cylinder engine to propane? can an adjustment be made to the black-box to allow propane vapor to be injected instead of gasoline vapor? can the regular injectors, air-flow sensor, etc. still be used with only a change to injector timing?? any help would be appreciated (web links, books on the subject, etc) thanks G'DAY! Mike Connolly Bulk Feed Tank Product Manager GRAIN SYSTEMS, INC. P.O. BOX 20 Assumption, IL 62510 PH: 217.226.4421 FAX: 217.226.4420 U.S. FAX: 800.800.5329 E-MAIL: mconnolly@grainsystems.com ---------- > Hi; > > At 01:13 PM 10/26/98 -0800, you wrote: > >Conversion of internal combustion motors to the use of hydrogen. > > >Compression: > > Don't forget hardened high temp valve seats for the older engines. Propane > requires this, I assume hydrogen does also? > > >A side note about eventual storage of hydrogen fuel. > > In 1912, Langmuir discovered that LEAD AMALGAM cathodes produced "nascent" > (atomic) hydrogen. Atomic hydrogen releases 3.75 times the BTU's by weight > as ordinary hydrogen does in the combustion process. > > Dr. Gerald Schafflander created a liquid hydride system which was > suppressed. It probably works well. > > Dennis C. Lee > > > > Tall Ships > http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 07:10:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA00199; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:03:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:03:32 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981027141215.00dd4808@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 09:12:15 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Hydrogen gap Resent-Message-ID: <"P6iyW.0.v2.33UDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7314 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi; At 03:39 PM 10/23/98 -0500, you wrote: >I am going to use 3/8 inch HDPE welded together to hold 60 6 in by 6in >stainless steel plates for an series type electrolysizor. In 1912 Langmuir discovered that a LEAD AMALGAM cathode electrode will produce "nascent" (atomic) hydrogen. Atomic hydrogen releases 3.75 times the BTU's by weight than ordinary hydrogen does. > My high frequency >leak detector just came in today. I am using a plastic (polyethelene) >welder to form this box like structure. Do you see any problems with using >this material instead of PVC? What temperature might I expect from a DC >pulse method as in browns gas. It is supposed to run cool. I am pulsing in the hundreds of >thousands/sec. Tuning the electrode plates (MASS CHORD) to the frequency is an important issue for greater efficiency. Dennis Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 08:36:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA02729; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 08:30:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 08:30:18 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981027142743.00e3f804@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 09:27:43 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re:(off topic) Engine modification, Hydrogen Resent-Message-ID: <"wAtj63.0.Yg.PKVDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7315 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi; It's been years since I worked on propane but: Coast Dieselectric Ltd. 416-678-7711 in Canada Dennis At 08:01 AM 10/27/98 PST, you wrote: >sirs: > >where could I find some info on converting a (relatively) modern >fuel-injected 4- cylinder engine to propane? can an adjustment be made to >the black-box to allow propane vapor to be injected instead of gasoline >vapor? can the regular injectors, air-flow sensor, etc. still be used with >only a change to injector timing?? Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 08:37:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA03841; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 08:33:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 08:33:37 -0800 Message-ID: <3635E807.7E3B37F7@GroupZ.net> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:34:31 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, mconnolly@grainsystems.com Subject: Re: Engine modification, Hydrogen References: Conversation <1.5.4.32.19981027130800.00e05258@popd.ix.netcom.com> with last message <1.5.4.32.19981027130800.00e05258@popd.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PWo0L1.0.xx.XNVDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7316 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: They sell conversion kits for most engines....see your local propane dealer, he should be able to give you all the information you need....hope this helps...steve Mike Connolly wrote: > > sirs: > > where could I find some info on converting a (relatively) modern > fuel-injected 4- cylinder engine to propane? can an adjustment be made to > the black-box to allow propane vapor to be injected instead of gasoline > vapor? can the regular injectors, air-flow sensor, etc. still be used with > only a change to injector timing?? > > any help would be appreciated (web links, books on the subject, etc) > > thanks > > G'DAY! > > Mike Connolly Bulk Feed Tank Product Manager GRAIN SYSTEMS, INC. > P.O. BOX 20 Assumption, IL 62510 > PH: 217.226.4421 FAX: 217.226.4420 U.S. FAX: 800.800.5329 > E-MAIL: mconnolly@grainsystems.com > > ---------- > > Hi; > > > > At 01:13 PM 10/26/98 -0800, you wrote: > > >Conversion of internal combustion motors to the use of hydrogen. > > > > >Compression: > > > > Don't forget hardened high temp valve seats for the older engines. Propane > > requires this, I assume hydrogen does also? > > > > >A side note about eventual storage of hydrogen fuel. > > > > In 1912, Langmuir discovered that LEAD AMALGAM cathodes produced "nascent" > > (atomic) hydrogen. Atomic hydrogen releases 3.75 times the BTU's by weight > > as ordinary hydrogen does in the combustion process. > > > > Dr. Gerald Schafflander created a liquid hydride system which was > > suppressed. It probably works well. > > > > Dennis C. Lee > > > > > > > > Tall Ships > > http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 10:17:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA05974; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:02:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:02:45 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981027171022.00e1bcf0@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 12:10:22 -0500 To: leep systems From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Planetary Gyroscopic Balance Idiocy - NOT! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Alan.CHEAH@adecco.com, alex@frolov.spb.ru, ahannan@MIT.EDU, deadnuts@deadnuts.com, apple pie , lupem@world.std.com, antigravity@primenet.com, bcarter@igc.apc.com, dbishop@beaconres.com, peg@wintergreen.com, billb@eskimo.com, wrick@ingr.com, bso@acm.org, blau@bluerock.com, bgh@wtn.ionics.com, bruce.pardoe@autodesk.com, byrun_fox@mindlink.bc.ca, claudeg@world.std.com, DaleSVP@ipa.net, danyork@iadfw.net, dtassen@c-zone.net, sweetser@world.std.com, clsmith@darwin.bu.edu, ccantor@sequenom.com, 76753.3551@CompuServe.COM, eben@ergeng.com, ehill@world.std.com, ejp@world.std.com, wordpros@inforamp.net, fstenger@interlaced.net, moy@ziplink.net, gjcheah@guybutler.com, wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu, hic@world.std.com, ives@ccs.neu.edu Resent-Message-ID: <"hj5mU3.0.4T1.4hWDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7317 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Eric; The icecap center of mass is very offcenter relative to the rotation axis. http://truinsight.com/Polar%20Ice%20Melt%20Watch.htm If it did slip (it is ice and we are getting global warming) where would it go? There is a force on it from rotation isn't there? If we have a complete understanding of gravity, why does the ocean well up on both sides of the Earth from the moon's force (a web search will reveal many inexplicable things about gravity given conventional theory)? Is the frozen wooly mammoth found near the North Pole a lie? What else could explain it being there? The book 5/5/2000 has a bibliography of 10 pages. There are too many things to list. I don't see how you can make such a statement without seeing them. I'd rather discuss it and try to get something to be on the safe side. Would it hurt to balance the icecap off? Does the weather seem unusually severe lately? We'll see what this winter is like. Sorry to offend but it seems important to look into such a possibility and make people aware. I put in alot of time and research from different sources before coming to this conclusion. If we had UFO technology we could fix this problem. Could the government be risking such a catastrophy rather than releasing this info? At 10:43 AM 10/27/98 -0500, leep systems wrote: >I'm really sick of this nonsense and appalled at the ignorance of >elementary physics that allows it to propagate. Eric, you know me from the VR projects in the good old days. Are you trying to say I don't know basic physics? Again, please do a web search on gravity anomolies. >NOTHING will twist the rotational axis of the earth perceptibly except >collision with another heavenly object having enormous mass. How about the icecap slipping to the equator from centripital acceleration? It's 3 miles thick and the size of the Northern Hemisphere. Is that big enough? BTW, WIT is making a push for that VR lab grant (V is a professor now!). Are you still making HMD's? Dennis Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 12:48:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA17459; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 12:42:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 12:42:49 -0800 From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Cc: serjio@glasnet.ru, leoguitar@vossnet.de Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 11:37:48 -0800 Subject: Re: Very Temperature dependant capacitors ? Message-ID: <19981027.113829.3046.0.tv@juno.com> References: <363363BE@novacap.com> <36360A14.24EDDB75@harti.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-8,10-25 Resent-Message-ID: <"Cq3cA2.0.YG4.81ZDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7318 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Jean, Sergey, Stefan and all, Talked to an engineer at radio material company. They make Barium titanate capacitors. One of these is called Z5U capacitor with a capacitance of 0.1 microfarads (uF) at a maximum voltage of 1000 V. It has a dielectric constant of 9500. The engineer told me it has a curie point of 85 degrees C. The capacitance change ranges from +/- 22 % to +/- 56 % over a temperature range of +10 degrees C to + 85 degrees C. Sergey, how does this compare to BK2 ? What is the curie point of BK2 ? How much does capacitance of BK2 change from 10 to 85 degrees C ? What is the capacticance of each BK2 capacitor ? Can we buy BK2 capacitors today ? What do they cost ? Best Wishes, Tim Vaughan ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 12:58:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA21362; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 12:51:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 12:51:50 -0800 Message-ID: <007601be01e3$7a9bfe00$ac5cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: Splitting Water Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:13:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"h23A43.0.cD5.b9ZDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7319 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Now the question is where can one get Magnesium and is it expensive? >Thought it was very reactive and would burst into flames on contact with >moisture??? Magnesium doesn't react with water at room temperature, or anything even close to it as far as I know. I've heard that burning magnesium will dissociate water, but I don't know if that's true. -- "There are no authorities whatever. No president, academy, court of law, congress or senate on this earth has the power or the knowledge to decide what will be the knowledge of tomorrow." --Dr. Wilhelm Reich From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 13:17:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31370; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:13:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:13:34 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 15:09:02 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Site updated (Butch LaFonte) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Resent-Message-ID: <"1afQi2.0.4g7.zTZDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7320 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Please look at the last two drawings and see if you think the moving magnet on the left part of the drawings will be PULLED IN WITH MORE FORCE toward the other magnet than it takes to REMOVE IT from the other magnet. If so, explain why, I have made some tests and would like to see if anyone in theory matches my results. The circuit is closed in the coil as the magnets move together, and open as they move apart. Notice that the flux cuts the coil from the outside in, on one and from the inside out, on the other as the flux is diverted. The magnet on the left slides back and forth to divert the flux. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 13:23:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA00744; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:16:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:16:44 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 15:13:06 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Site updated (Butch) Web address Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Resent-Message-ID: <"NN15b1.0.WB.xWZDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7321 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Please look at the last two drawings and see if you think the moving magnet on the left part of the drawings will be PULLED IN WITH MORE FORCE toward the other magnet than it takes to REMOVE IT from the other magnet. If so, explain why, I have made some tests and would like to see if anyone in theory matches my results. The circuit is closed in the coil as the magnets move together, and open as they move apart. Notice that the flux cuts the coil from the outside in, on one and from the inside out, on the other as the flux is diverted. The magnet on the left slides back and forth to divert the flux. Thanks, Butch LaFonte HLafonte's Home Page http://members.aol.com/HLafonte/lafonteresearchsite1web.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 14:16:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA30793; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 14:12:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 14:12:15 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:13:14 -0700 From: "bob macelvain" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: on X-Expiredinmiddle: true X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: Planetary Gyroscopic Balance Idiocy - NOT! X-Sender-Ip: 209.12.236.129 Organization: MailCity (http://www.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4zkMN2.0.yW7.-KaDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7322 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ... ?polar ice? ... ... ... ?why not electrolize the H2O flowing down the amazon for 5 years? ... ... the earth's air will be fresher (more O2)... ... ... H2 will be left to expand in earth's wake harmlessly... ... ... worldwide continental shelves will be exposed as zider zee type super top soil... ... ... the food infrastructure can catch back up with the population... ... ... commerce can expand by a factor approaching an estimated 100x, new highways, new cities, new airports, etc, hedgemony here, hedgemony there, hedgemony everywhere... ... ... the polar ice can drain lazily into the 35 remaining seas... ... ... as sea-levels slowly rise, real estate commerce will boom for centuries as rich agricultural land and seaports slip beneath the waves... ... ... ?rebuttal? ... ... bob... Get your FREE E-mail at http://mailcity.lycos.com Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://personal.lycos.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 15:11:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA22802; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 15:06:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 15:06:16 -0800 Message-ID: <363642B2.9EF@spu.edu> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 14:01:23 -0800 From: TK Reply-To: tnk@spu.edu Organization: me X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Splitting Water References: <007601be01e3$7a9bfe00$ac5cadd1@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9moY62.0.Aa5.d7bDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7323 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Magnesium doesn't react with water at room temperature, and is rather easy to obtain at any chemical supply store, or for low grade magneium, just carefully grind up those fire starters you can buy at your local outdoors-type store. Sodium, on the other hand, is highly reactive, especially when it comes in contact with water (it automatically reacts violently to form Hydrogen and NaOH, a nasty base), and must be stored under a water-repelling liquid. It is much harder to obtain in its pure form, due to the storage problems associated with it. TK Jim Shaffer, Jr. wrote: > > >Now the question is where can one get Magnesium and is it expensive? > >Thought it was very reactive and would burst into flames on contact with > >moisture??? > > Magnesium doesn't react with water at room temperature, or anything even > close to it as far as I know. I've heard that burning magnesium will > dissociate water, but I don't know if that's true. > > -- > "There are no authorities whatever. No president, academy, court of > law, congress or senate on this earth has the power or the knowledge > to decide what will be the knowledge of tomorrow." > --Dr. Wilhelm Reich From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 16:12:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA18024; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:07:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:07:22 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981027231606.00e38bd0@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:16:06 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Planetary Gyroscopic Balance Idiocy - NOT! Cc: jsearl@tako.demon.co.uk Resent-Message-ID: <"iLiXf3.0.NP4.v0cDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7324 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi; Very Interesting! The South Pole Icecap needs to be reduced soon though. If 5/5/2000 doesn't do it, a large passing meteor or a supernova may trigger a shift. The sun is starting cycle 23 which mainsteam science agrees will be "a lulu". Severe intensity of solar flares will have high magnetic fields associated with it so this must be considered. The south pole icecap is too big and off center to just leave it there. Most of the vehicles and powerplants are in the northern hemisphere so the North Pole Icecap is getting smaller at a very noticable increasing rate. This adds to the imbalance. Perhaps a device that roams the icecap and electrolysizes ice directly? It should also be able to determine where ice should be trimmed for increased gyroscopic balance. I would like to make a customized Searl Inverse G Vehicle designed to cut large blocks of ice and transport them to deserts and to make lakes. The block would be vibrated at it's mass chord and therefore be weightless. The IGV would have to be designed to operate with such chord frequencies. The focal point above the IGV must have a radius range such that the icecube below will sufficiently overlap the forcefield. Or we could ask the government to release the technology to do this. I would say that the Icecap situation should be important enough to make an exception on the standard policy of suppression. The South Pole Icecap is 3 miles thick and about the size of the Northern hemisphere. Antigravity and free energy technology is required for such a magnitude of work. If enough people ask, politicians will have to inquire about this issue and will have a good reason to do so. It's worth a try. Dennis At 01:13 PM 10/27/98 -0700, you wrote: >... ?polar ice? ... >... >... ?why not electrolize > the H2O flowing > down the amazon > for 5 years? >... >... the earth's air will > be fresher (more O2)... >... >... H2 will be left to > expand in earth's > wake harmlessly... >... >... worldwide continental > shelves will be > exposed as zider zee > type super top soil... >... >... the food infrastructure > can catch back up with > the population... >... >... commerce can expand > by a factor approaching > an estimated 100x, new > highways, new cities, > new airports, etc, > hedgemony here, > hedgemony there, > hedgemony everywhere... >... >... the polar ice can drain > lazily into the 35 remaining > seas... >... >... as sea-levels slowly rise, > real estate commerce will > boom for centuries as > rich agricultural land and > seaports slip beneath the > waves... Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 16:53:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA30913; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:44:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:44:19 -0800 From: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca Message-Id: X-Sender: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:43:19 -0500 To: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Nonlinear capacitor converter Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net In-Reply-To: References: <362FB505.B2CD883B@harti.com> <362BEB49.A5D7A425@harti.com> <19981021.133023.10870.2.tv@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ayGxm2.0.fY7.WZcDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7325 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Rick, Have you seen the following Flangan patent 4,391,773 available on the IBM patent server. ABSTRACT A housing encloses a high voltage, high frequency power supply having output terminals connected to a pair of electrodes mounted on opposite sides of a solid dielectric, the electrodes and solid dielectric being encapsulated in an insulator and mounted in a tunnel in the housing, the air to be purified being circulated through the tunnel. This patent has a very intersting diaelectric. Was wondering if anyone has any info as to how well it works as a air purifier and as a diaelectric. Chris Gupta At 02:54 PM 10/22/98 -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote: >Stefan - > >This sounds like an efficient variation of the T. Townsend Brown style >capacitor charging setups I played with a while ago. I could imagine >setting up large banks of these capacitors and getting amps instead of only >the pico-amps I was collecting. Sounds like they could air condition your >room while they generated power too! Somehow it doesn't seem like a >practical possibility to me, but the effect is certainly there. My caps >were reacting to daily heating. Strangely, they seemed to react to the >heating outside even if they were kept inside a cooler having a more >constant temperature than the outside air. Maybe it was caused by >ferroelectric fields from the heated ground outside, something like that. >TTB registered these same kinds dod daily charging curves even when the >capacitor was in a constant-temperature chamber. > >No doubt it's free energy, but is it practical energy that can be harvested >with equipment that beats diesel or solar in terms of purchasing and >maintaining it versus the lifetime of the equipment and the net energy >collected? That's the question. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 17:10:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA06678; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 17:05:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 17:05:25 -0800 Message-ID: <36367B83.41795554@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:03:47 -0800 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Freenrg-L Subject: Scalar wave experiments Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sLs8M2.0.De1.LtcDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7326 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com All: I've conducted some experiments with the basic Hodowanec detector. I got it to stop the popcorn-like sound, and produce a steady hum. I still haven't tried anything with a TL082 yet though. After listening to the detectors hum for a while, I noticed occasional deviations from the normal background noise. Don't get your hopes up yet though, I still have to put it in a Faraday cage, and run the wires in via coax. I also built one of Bob Shannon's scalar test pulse generators (http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/SCHMAT1A.GIF) By the way Bob, were those capacitors .47uF or .47 FARADS? If Farads, where do you get them at such a value? I powered up the pulse circuit, (also not yet shielded) and tried a pulse with the Hodowanec running. I heard a faint but noticeable crackle. I repeated, and found that I can 'tap out morse' with the pulser. I also checked to see it there would be anything interesting produced with a radio tuned to AM. Sure enough, the crackle was heard. I don't know if this means that the pulser was producing Hertzian type waves, or something else. While these tests were interesting, they are far from having any value. As soon as I can, I will rig up some faraday cages with coax feeds, and retest. I also plan to build a NE-2 scalar detector and test it, and maybe Bob's "Barkhausen scalar detector". Any suggestions are welcome. Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 17:54:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA01777; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 17:50:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 17:50:48 -0800 Message-ID: <3636924D.26E2@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 19:41:01 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Scalar wave experiments References: <36367B83.41795554@sunherald.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vdoja3.0.dR.tXdDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7327 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > I also > built one of Bob Shannon's scalar test pulse generators > (http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/SCHMAT1A.GIF) By the way Bob, were > those capacitors .47uF or .47 FARADS? If Farads, where do you get them > at such a value? 0.47 Farads is correct. Thats a small capacitor today! I've heard of 2,700 farad capacitors being available. The capacitors I used were older NEC parts, about 2 1/2 inch across and an inch thick. If you want some GREAT capacitors, try: http://www.solarbotics.com Try the 1.5 farad 2.5 volt Panasonic Gold Series capacitors, use several in series for a higher voltage but a lower total capacitance. The much lower internal resistance of these caps will more than offset any reduction in total capacitance over the values I used in my prototype. You will be amazed at how physically small a 1.5 Farad capacitor is! > I powered up the pulse circuit, (also not yet shielded) and tried a > pulse with the Hodowanec running. I heard a faint but noticeable > crackle. I repeated, and found that I can 'tap out morse' with the > pulser. I also checked to see it there would be anything interesting > produced with a radio tuned to AM. Sure enough, the crackle was heard. I > don't know if this means that the pulser was producing Hertzian type > waves, or something else. While these tests were interesting, they are > far from having any value. As soon as I can, I will rig up some faraday > cages with coax feeds, and retest. I also plan to build a NE-2 scalar > detector and test it, and maybe Bob's "Barkhausen scalar detector". Any > suggestions are welcome. > > Kyle R. Mcallister Sheild the heck out of it! Yes, discharging capacitors abruptly DOES emit EM waves, just the lead lenghts to the scalar translator will emit large EMP's when the SCR fires. If you need any help, I'm here as always. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 18:01:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA06757; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 17:58:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 17:58:52 -0800 Message-ID: <36368E4A.5592@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 19:23:54 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Planetary Gyroscopic Balance Idiocy - NOT! References: <1.5.4.32.19981027231606.00e38bd0@popd.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"O8ulc3.0.Of1.RfdDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7328 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dennis C. Lee wrote: > The South Pole Icecap is 3 > miles thick and about the size of the Northern hemisphere. This is a typo, right? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 18:16:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA14249; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:14:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:14:45 -0800 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Planetary Gyroscopic Balance Idiocy - NOT! Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 01:16:18 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <363d6c14.67636389@24.192.1.20> References: <1.5.4.32.19981027171022.00e1bcf0@popd.ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19981027171022.00e1bcf0@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DZ9ir.0.MU3.JudDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7329 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 27 Oct 1998 12:10:22 -0500, Dennis C. Lee wrote: [snip] >At 10:43 AM 10/27/98 -0500, leep systems wrote: > >>I'm really sick of this nonsense and appalled at the ignorance of >>elementary physics that allows it to propagate. >>NOTHING will twist the rotational axis of the earth perceptibly except >>collision with another heavenly object having enormous mass. Correct, however I think the crust alone can shift somewhat while leaving the rest of the planet rotating about the same axis. Angular momentum can be conserved by a slight slowing down in the rotation rate of the planet (ice skaters arms extended analogy). > >How about the icecap slipping to the equator from centripital acceleration? That's centrifugal, not centripetal, and I suspect that slipping to the equator is somewhat exaggerated. (Look at the time span and size of hops involved in the movement of the Hawaian islands). >It's 3 miles thick and the size of the Northern Hemisphere. Is that big enough? The Northern Hemisphere is half the planet. The only other thing on earth that big is the Southern Hemisphere. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 18:59:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA32354; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:54:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:54:44 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981028020339.00e6f594@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 21:03:39 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Planetary Gyroscopic Balance Idiocy - NOT! Resent-Message-ID: <"bQGvv3.0.Sv7.pTeDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7330 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Oops, I meant the North American Continent. Dennis At 07:23 PM 10/27/98 -0800, you wrote: >Dennis C. Lee wrote: > > > >> The South Pole Icecap is 3 >> miles thick and about the size of the Northern hemisphere. > >This is a typo, right? > > > Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 19:34:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12990; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 19:28:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 19:28:53 -0800 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Cc: harti@harti.com, JNaudin509@aol.com, sergio@glasnet.ru Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:09:54 -0800 Subject: Re: Very Temperature dependant capacitors ? Message-ID: <19981027.182826.3606.0.tv@juno.com> References: <363363BE@novacap.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-26,28-39 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"bz9tn1.0.qA3.rzeDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7331 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 28 Oct 1998 00:44:20 +0100 Stefan Hartmann writes: >tv@juno.com wrote: >> >> Hi Jean, Sergey, Stefan and all, >> >> Talked to an engineer at radio material company. They make >> Barium titanate capacitors. One of these is called Z5U capacitor >> with a capacitance of 0.1 microfarads (uF) at a maximum voltage >> of 1000 V. It has a dielectric constant of 9500. >> >> The engineer told me it has a curie point of 85 degrees C. > >>From the diagrams at www.novacap.com it looks more than it has 25 >>degrees Celsius Curie Point ! Maybe novacap is different. I will call them in the morning also. >Maybe he talked about degrees Fahrenheit ??? No it is Celsius. (Fahrenheit would have been better.) >What is the biggest value they have ? >just only 0.1 uF ? 0.1 uF was the biggest standard size. I am going to call in the morning for more information and prices. > >Is there a bigger one with less voltage ? Possibly. I will check this. Tim ( tv@juno.com ) ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 19:37:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA15635; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 19:32:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 19:32:07 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:15:31 -0800 Subject: Re: Flanigan air purifier Message-ID: <19981027.182826.3606.1.tv@juno.com> References: <362FB505.B2CD883B@harti.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-21,23,25-34 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"5cufr.0.8q3.s0fDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7332 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I have one those Flanigan air purifiers. I don't really think it works as well as my Honeywell electrostatic air purifier. It consists of a piece of styrofoam glued to the top of piece of copper clad PC board. It is excited by a high voltage supply that uses a T.V. flyback transformer. When you put your finger near the top of the styrofoam, sparks jump to your finger. Tim ( tv@juno.com ) On Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:43:19 -0500 mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca writes: >Rick, > >Have you seen the following Flangan patent 4,391,773 available on the >IBM >patent server. > > ABSTRACT > A housing encloses a high voltage, high frequency power supply >having output terminals connected to a pair of electrodes mounted on opposite >sides of a solid dielectric, the electrodes and solid dielectric being encapsulated >in an insulator and mounted in a tunnel in the housing, the air to be >purified being circulated through the tunnel. > >This patent has a very intersting diaelectric. Was wondering if anyone >has any info as to how well it works as a air purifier and as a >diaelectric. > >Chris Gupta > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 19:49:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA23175; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 19:45:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 19:45:12 -0800 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <363d6c14.67636389@24.192.1.20> References: <1.5.4.32.19981027171022.00e1bcf0@popd.ix.netcom.com> <1.5.4.32.19981027171022.00e1bcf0@popd.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:39:45 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Planetary Gyroscopic Balance Idiocy - NOT! Resent-Message-ID: <"86pCu2.0.0g5.7DfDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7333 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Leep Systems writes: > I'm really sick of this nonsense and > appalled at the ignorance of elementary > physics that allows it to propagate. > NOTHING will twist the rotational axis of > the earth perceptibly except collision > with another heavenly object having > enormous mass. Well, I'm afraid when you read this you're going to get even sicker. My elementary geophysics tells me that the the earth is very, very, nearly a perfect sphere. The much talked about equatorial bulges or "oblate spheroid" shape is extremely small compared with the size of the earth. Then, my elementary physics tells me that a perfect spinning sphere has *NO* gyroscopic stability. Nada, none at all. If the earth were a perfect sphere, after a few years a gang of fleas all farting in the same direction could tilt the earth off its axis. Of course it's not quite a perfect sphere. So how does that tiny equatorial bulge stack up against the ice packs anyway? Is much of that equatorial bulge made up of seawater? I'd really be interested in a good explanation of the physics of the stability of a spinning *elastic* sphere (perhaps fluid filled, like a near-spherical water balloon for instance). I'd think its centrifugal bulge would contribute to stability as expected, but is it truly the same as a rigid solid having a fixed equatorial bulge? How would such a fluid system react, for instance, to a field which applied force to all the elements (molecules or whatever) of the system all at once? The earth, even the solid rock, might as well be considered a near-fluid when taken altogether as a planet. There may be other forces between the earth and sun, or even the other planets, that loom large but unknown against the simple electrogravitic (plain old gravity in straight radiated 'as in electrostatic' lines). Obviously electrostatic forces aren't small, and even gravity itself might have some glitches to it involving large spinning masses. I know the magnetogravitic effect from such systems is thought to be vanishingly small, but that might not be the whole story. Remember "Jove rules the heavens", and there's physical evidence to back the claim (angular momentum of the solar system). Would that be a clue? The ancients seemed terribly intersted in tracking the heavens, and evidence indicates they experienced enormous relief and celebration when observations showed that things were continuing to move in their expected paths. Why this paranoia about celectial objects reappearing in their proper places? Don't they always? Why would anyone think it could be otherwise? Maybe they knew something we don't? Maybe they or their ancestors had certain bad experiences in this regard? I'm not buying into any of this 5/5/2000 or polar shift stuff without any good evidence either. But I'm not so sure I can dismiss all of it out of hand without some good answers to some of these other questions. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 19:56:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA27926; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 19:52:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 19:52:44 -0800 Message-ID: <3636A2AD.406B7DEA@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 20:50:53 -0800 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Scalar wave experiments References: <36367B83.41795554@sunherald.infi.net> <3636924D.26E2@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"37cLQ2.0._p6.AKfDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7334 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > http://www.solarbotics.com Try the 1.5 farad 2.5 volt Panasonic Gold > Series > capacitors, use several in series for a higher voltage but a lower total > capacitance. Thanks, I'll check it out. > If you need any help, I'm here as always. Thank you, I appreciate it. Best regards, Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 21:37:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA06184; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 21:33:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 21:33:26 -0800 From: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca Message-Id: <199810280435.XAA28784@juliet.its.uwo.ca> X-Sender: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 23:14:34 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flanigan air purifier In-Reply-To: <19981027.182826.3606.1.tv@juno.com> References: <362FB505.B2CD883B@harti.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"8Igv-2.0.UW1.aogDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7335 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tim, >From your description it does not sound like unit described in the patent. Have a look at the patent on the IBM site to see what I mean. Chris At 06:15 PM 10/27/98 -0800, Tim Vaughan wrote: >I have one those Flanigan air purifiers. I don't really think it works >as well as my Honeywell electrostatic air purifier. > >It consists of a piece of styrofoam glued to the top of piece of >copper clad PC board. It is excited by a high voltage supply >that uses a T.V. flyback transformer. When you put your finger near the >top of the styrofoam, sparks jump to your finger. > > >Tim > >( tv@juno.com ) > >On Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:43:19 -0500 mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca writes: >>Rick, >> >>Have you seen the following Flangan patent 4,391,773 available on the >>IBM >>patent server. >> >> ABSTRACT >> A housing encloses a high voltage, high frequency power supply >>having output terminals connected to a pair of electrodes mounted on >opposite >>sides of a solid dielectric, the electrodes and solid dielectric being >encapsulated >>in an insulator and mounted in a tunnel in the housing, the air to be >>purified being circulated through the tunnel. >> >>This patent has a very intersting diaelectric. Was wondering if anyone >>has any info as to how well it works as a air purifier and as a >>diaelectric. >> >>Chris Gupta >> > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Oct 27 22:24:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA23622; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 22:19:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 22:19:25 -0800 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 21:20:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199810280520.VAA11836@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Hodowanec Detector Resent-Message-ID: <"Snjb73.0.-m5.iThDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7336 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi all, At 10:28 PM 10/26/98 -0600, Zack wrote: >> Can someone please tell me the magazine issue where Hodowanec's gravity >> detector article was. I think it was in "Radio Electronics", but it may have >> been "Popular Electronics". >> Thanks, >> -Dave >> > >I have it right here in front of me. > >It was in Radio-Electronics, April 1996, page 53. That's 1986. Haven't found this issue again :-(. >There was a followup article in Radio-Electronics, July 1996, page 52. Yes, a "Radar Signal Detector" using an 0.22uF input capacitor, tuned by its leads. There were also 2 letters about gravity waves in the August, 1986 issue. Since several people have tested this unit, could you please state what kind and value of input capacitor you used? Thanks. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 28 00:20:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA04786; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 00:17:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 00:17:47 -0800 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981027143947.007cca40@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 14:39:47 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Off topic: repression Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"DfODX2.0.hA1.hCjDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7337 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com The independence of thought? Perhaps it is as many say, that today, new ideas about our world are spirited on by a new type of fever? Millennium fever. As we approach any milestone of major change, is it not normal to reflect on where we have been and ponder what lies ahead? As a new bride may feel relief at leaving home, and starting a new life with her husband, might she also look back on the good and bad of her childhood home, savoring the fond memories, but also resolving not to repeat the mistakes of her youth. Or in the case of a recent graduate from collage, would we be harsh in our lack of understanding, if he or she falters, taking a few months to decide what career to follow? I submit that what is being experienced today, as we quickly approach the millennium it is a natural thing and should be embraced as healthy and normal. It is true that there seems to be an over abundance of theories of global catastrophe, but is it not also true that a child on their first day at school might have a great many fears that are unfounded. Is it not true, that it is the experience of facing those fears that tend to foster the confidence, that will be needed later in life, when change brings uncertainty. One of my great realizations came when I finally faced the truth, that teachers do not eat children. Non the less, it is the ability to separate truth from fantasy, that that is the skill that is needed in times of great change. Confidence in the face of change, I feel, is fostered by the clarity of knowledge that is gained from reflection. I will also add, that I believe that knowledge is the seed of wisdom. If wisdom is to be obtained, knowledge will be the bridge to that future. It is the case, that there seems to be a great willingness in times of change, to turn our ears to issues of concern that have in previous times not seemed credible. I also I feel that it is natural that there is more of an urge for those who have knowledge to be encouraged to come forward with their fears. I hope this document is received in just that light. One of a man, coming to the forefront with his greatest fears. I know that many have listened to my posts and can feel the optimism, with which I point to hydrogen as a fuel of the future. I have expounded on the use of hydrogen, and it's availability, as a renewable non-polluting fuel source. I know also, that many are confounded by my reluctance to be more open about the methods of production of hydrogen as a fuel of the future. I am in hopes, that this post, sheds some light on these seeming inconsistencies. By way of explanation, let me take time to review the progress of hydrogen and other fuels, in the light of more economically successful and prevalent forms of energy. Early in this century, a man by the name of Henry Ford, was to bring to many people in America, and the world, a new invention, the automobile. Unlike many others involved in the development of the automobile, Ford was from common roots. He was often quoted as expressing that his primary goal, was to bring this technology to the common man. Who can argue, that his development of the assembly line, did not make the automobile affordable to even the least affluent of his countryman. It is said of him, that in later years, he was repressive of his workers and there demands for higher pay. Is it so hard to see that these two issues, of product affordability and higher wages, were in direct conflict? That all his efforts to keep manufacturing costs low, were clearly threatened, by an effort to raise the living wage of those who would produce those automobiles. It is true however, that most other manufactures saw this technology as the providence of the very rich, and targeted their manufacturing to this market. I feel that it was Fords' efforts, to bring the auto, to a broad domestic market, is his true contribution as a revolutionary. There is another struggle that Ford is less famous for, that was equally as important. That struggle was over the design of his earlier cars to be capable of using a multiple of fuels. Perhaps it is his lack of success in this area, accounts for history not paying much attention. History has a habit of recording successes, and glossing over, the "also-ran's" of progress. Henry being of a farming background, was early on an advocate of alcohol fuels. In common sense application, he encouraged the adaptation of his new invention to wide use, pointing out that the prime target of his marketing, rural America, could also make their own fuel. It was the case that in the early part of the century, every farmer either did, or was at least knowledgeable, of how to make alcohol. Early on, Ford was a strong opponent of petroleum based fuels, raising issues that the shellacs and acids damaged the inner workings of his machinery, and this was not the case when alcohol was used. This is very much in keeping with his love of gadgetry and mechanisms. Those of you who work with machinery can attest to how deep this habit of giving entity to mechanical systems can run. I don't know about you, but I name all of my cars, and when they do not run right, I have been known to refer to them, in the vernacular reserved for females of the canine species. It has been said, that the pollution that is faced by our planet, is a crime against nature. If it is truly a crime where or how are we to seek out the perpetrators. If we had paid attention to early fathers of the Industrial Revolution, could many of our present dilemmas have been avoided? Was Ford right? Are the poisons involved in the use of petroleum fuels a hidden danger? If the answer is yes, then where did Ford and in turn we, fail to avert this danger. It is an axiom of criminal investigation to follow the money trail. If it was to be a subversive act that would shape our destiny, can we overlook our own responsibility in clamoring for low cost energy, irrespective of the cost, environmentally? It is rather easy now, to sit back with some degree of complacency, looking at the daunting task of supplanting the giant and multinational corporations that control this petroleum industry. I will point out that is was not for the lack of effort, that we did not head the warnings of Ford and others, and find ourselves in this dilemma. If we have seen change for the worse for our planet, and there were alternatives, where was the battle won or lost? Ford was an advocate of both change, and world peace. I might also point out that following World War II, Ford was one of the few industrialists that paid back what was known as, war profits. This type action today, is unheard of, among members of the industrial elite. If it was the case, as Ford suggested, that Alcohol Fuels were so plentiful, where can we see, the massive conditions of change, that have brought us to our present state of affairs. Something of so large an impact, must certainly have had the force of great powers to bring about. I propose that is was the public will, that brought about this negative outcome for renewable, nonpolluting fuels. We can not divorce ourselves from complicity in this issue. The public will, in our quest for cheep and functional solutions to our immediate needs, played a major part. So simply said, but are we truly to blame. If at the beginning of the last century, as Ford had pointed out, any farmer could make alcohol, and alcohol was a cheep and plentiful fuel. What conditions changed, that were to do away with that independence of energy, and force the acceptance of poisonous, polluting and mechanically, ruinous fuels. I do not presume in any way to suggest a multigenerational, organized conspiracy. What I will however point to one consistent factor, in the progress of the Industrial Revolution. That factor is greed. As referenced in my earlier statements, alternatives such hydrogen and alcohol have fell by the wayside, in relationship to less desirable fossil fuels. The obvious in life, is often the most difficult to see. Availability is exactly the issue that I propose, has held back these technologies. With their ready accessibility, there was no market of exploitation that could point the way to eventual control of production. With out this control, you will find few companies willing to advance this technology. Fewer still, would be the sources of capital that would offer support in advances in technologies that by their nature, guarantee a lack of control or monopoly. The simple logic of abundant renewable fuels, led to their down fall. These same factors, became the lubricant, (pun intended), that fostered investment in repository fuels, like coal and oil. Simply put, they could be controlled. An example in more modern times can be the monumental effort that was brought to bear on the harnessing the industrial and civil use of atomic energy. An effort that is now under the greatest suspicion, as piles of spent fuel begin to build up, leaving a 16,000 year legacy of pollutants for our descendents. Control driven profitability, and greed, as there is no common man that could build, much less operate, such a facility for his own use. Although these seem random occurrences, still I would suggest a pattern to these events. Simultaneous to major advances in Fossil Fuel Technology, there has been a movement that has become an unwitting bedfellow, with regard to the alternative of alcohol fuels. Aided and insured by the manipulation of both public and political opinion, and with direct funding by the coal industry, the strategy of fostering prohibition movement served them well. Was this arranged in smoke-filled rooms, or over long hours secret negotiations. I think not. More believable, would be that it was just good business. Where there was a threat of an alternative fuel, that may one day cut into profits, what better way than to foster a moral movement that had the same goals, the total eradication of the production and distribution of alcohol. This type of alliance, may well be mirrored in modern times, and where you might have the only opportunity to see Fundamentalist Christians and Catholics in total agreement, at an anti abortion rally. In 1840, the development of coal reserves as a fuel source for the growing move toward stream power, was threatened by the only other source of such heat, alcohol. Steam, meant that factories of the Northeastern United States could operate independent of the waterways that previously fed them with power. It made no sense, to totally relocate outside these areas, as to do so would mean that you would need to retrain, an entire workforce. It is interesting however, to plot the progress of the anti alcohol, Prohibition Movement, with reference to the demand for coal and eventually petroleum fuels in a quickly industrializing nation. Here are some of the dates and geographic locations, where both the advance of industrialization and the use of coal parallel the implementation of laws of prohibition of alcohol: Maine 1846, Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island 1852, Connecticut 1854, New Hampshire, New York 1855. These States boasted that, they were the heart of the Industrialized North. With the advent of the Civil War in the US, the tide of support for prohibition weakens for a bit, until the development of crude oil, coming into competition, in the 1880s. Is it any surprise, that the same strategy, of supporting a political movement that insures a total elimination of a competing fuel, would be used? Would such an effective strategy, not be used again, by the new boys on the block? This time, near the end of the 19th century, also parallels the advent of what were called, oilier's by the railroad men of the time. In more modern terms, the use of black oil, fired, boilers for rail transportation. Black oil, was a highly combustible fuel that is a byproduct of the production of lubricants from crude oil. Prohibition once again, follows the development of the rail industry into the Midwestern United States. From 1880 to 1890, the States of Kansas, Iowa, Ohio, North and South Dakota would follow suite, in adopting laws outlawing the production and consumption of alcohol. Once again there is there is a lull in the spread of Alcohol Prohibitions, that is, until the spread of a revolutionary technology, the automobile, and the contention of a new fuel, Gasoline. Between 1907 and 1920 nearly all other States, would adopt laws prohibiting the use of Alcohol, culminating in the 18th amendment to the constitution of the United States. Random parallels? Admittedly these same periods also coincide with general trends in urbanization of these same geographic areas, that would result in the concentration of domestic attention on the abuses of a drunken citizenry. This would be a convincing argument, unless you also review the issue of enforcement by the branch of the Federal Government, chosen to deal with violations of this, now national law. That body was the Internal Revenue Service. The cry of "Revenuers" struck fear into the hearts of civil disobedient farmers, all throughout rural America. While the borders of Canada remained open to the supply lines, that fed the Northern Cities hungers for alcohol. With minimum exception, enforcement targeted the rural producers of alcohol, who lacking the sophisticated transportation systems of the North, mainly supplied a local demand for this newly illegal substance. I might now also ask a pointed question. At the time of the repeal of the 18th Amendment in 1933, were the social issues that brought about laws in favor of prohibition, less? The National incidence of alcoholism had tripled, crime related to the illegal use of alcohol and distribution of alcohol had increased by a factor of 10, in the States that had established prohibition laws more than 60 years earlier. The occurrence of alcohol related deaths, was up by 150%. Was it just a bad law? Or had the financing of groups that supported prohibition simply dried up? (Pun intended). Had the undeclared alliance of the energy barons and the prohibitionists become somehow needless? Or had the goals of at least one group been served? One thing is for sure, in 1920, our hero of the common man, Henry Ford, would have had a hard sell to advocate the production of alcohol, as a national energy independence policy. For those of you who might not see a connection of politics, energy and international concerns. I will ask Americans to recall the events of 1990, and the words of our then president of the United States, George Bush. Confidently he stated in no uncertain terms, that he would regard the interruption of oil shipments to the United States, an act of war against the American People. The nice part about these things is I don't have to make them up, I just need to remember them. By way of explanation of my present day attitudes, as a member of this news group let me add this. Where I would seek to encourage you and others to continue this work in alternative technologies, of all types, I feel that I also am condemning you to a career wrought with disappointment and frustration. For those of you foolhardy enough to continue, I make no apology in asking for God's speed and protection in your efforts. Evidenced by my posts, the advice and directions I offer, are from my past. I wince at my inability to more accurately provide specific information, as what I can offer, come mostly from the fading memory of an old man. My health is not good, and I am slowly loosing my sight. What I do hope to offer is encouragement, and the ability to lend some direction, in replicating the hard science and experimentation that will form a foundation of new technologies and offer the best hope success. I do find it fruitful to look back, before jumping head. Believe me, I do know, that it will be through the work of many, that the issues of clean renewable energy is to solved. By way of warning, do not disregard the issue of the public will, that I elude to in this post. I started my work at a time when little was known about the dire effects that fossil fuels posed on a global scale, but there was a genuine willingness, in those times, to question the status quo. What I have learned is that without the will of the general populous, our efforts are likely to go unrecognized and unappreciated for years to come. The last time I can really say that I saw hope for change on a large scale, and in the forefront of political issues, was during the presidential elections of 1976. Is it also a dire commentary, that the end of President Carter's administration, elected on a energy reform platform, was the manipulation of a political situation, involving the oil rich nation of Iran, and the then, contending political opponent, Ronald Reagan. A presidential contender, who after his election in 1980, would go on to offer weapons to the country that who only a few years earlier, Reagan himself had labeled as, the most significant threat to the security of the United States in modern times. The general advice that I can offer, is that there is probably no single more effective way to insure change, than to involve the leaders major industry, and offer that we as individuals, will genuinely reward with patronage, companies that offer change in energy areas. If greed is, as I try to stress in this post, the prime factor for change in a capital driven world, than use that fact to your advantage. Advocate for change. Be open in sharing your successes, no mater how small, as widely as you can. Avoid the quest for dreams of riches that may never to be realized, and come at the cost of secrecy. Never before on the face of this planet, have I seen an opportunity for effective communication, as I see embodied in the existence Internet. Use it! Finally; always, always be open to examining carefully, the lessons of history. Here is one of my quotes that I feel fits this situation well. It is on the philosophic question of freedom versus determinism. The degree, to which man is truly free, is directly proportional to his knowledge of those factors that would seek to determine him. TR Knudtson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 28 02:47:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA12464; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 02:47:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 02:47:06 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <776e127d.3636f5f3@aol.com> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 05:46:11 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: A simulated model of the Zaev's generator Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Resent-Message-ID: <"EGufr1.0.b23.gOlDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7338 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi All, You will find a simulated model of the Zaev's generator which uses a nonlinear capacitor in my web site at: http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/nlcsim.htm I hope this will help you to understand of this device can run... Best regards, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 28 05:05:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA11370; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 05:04:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 05:04:17 -0800 Message-ID: <363731A7.89045445@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 07:00:55 -0800 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hodowanec Detector References: <199810280520.VAA11836@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_bleo1.0.Zn2.GPnDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7339 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com dave dameron wrote: > Since several people have tested this unit, could you please state what kind > and value of input capacitor you used? Thanks. I used the standard .22uF electrolytic capacitor. Hodowanec mentioned increasing this capacitor to ~1000uF to increase the detector's capabilities. The basic detector doesn't give me a popcorn sound, but I can't puzzle out the problem with th buffered version. Every time I try to tune it, I'm greeted with BBBEEERRRRRRRRRRTTTTTT...BMP...BMP...BMP...BMP...BMP...etc. If I tune it, the BMP rate goes up or down accordingly. This can't be something produced outside the detector, because I can control it with the potentiometers. There must be some fault in my detector. Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 28 08:09:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA13672; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:07:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:07:05 -0800 Message-Id: <199810281606.LAA24309@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , , , "Dennis C. Lee" Cc: "Eric Howlett" , , , , , , , <73577.123@CompuServe.COM>, , Subject: Re: Missing Meyer Patent Info/Reflections on resonance Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 11:46:01 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZC3S43.0.TL3.e4qDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7340 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Dennis and many other addresses. You made a statement/question, isnt resonance akin to superconductivity? No its kin to Ohms Law. That is electrical resonance anyways. The term resonance also has other uses. Surprisingly we see little referance to the fact that resonance is greatly inhibited by the substance the magnetic field must permeate. Air works the better than most materials. Also the uniformity in the geometry of the capacitor seems to be a factor. I once built a crude wax paper/ aluminum foil capacitor wrapped on a fiber drum. I constructed it to be the same value as the capacitance needed to resonate a large air core coil. Normal oil filled capacitors would give me a 15 fold increase of amperage and voltage and 60 hertz. The home-made capacitor had many wrinkles and non uniformity in its structure. Even though it it gave an identical capacitive reading it would only give a 3 fold rise compared to 15 from the store bought caps. Series resonance is a conceptually a cancellation of inductive reactance,which is the AC analogy of DC inductance,or magnetic "inertia". This cancellation takes the form of an equal and opposite capacitive reactance (in ohms) in series with the former. The net result is that current is supposed to conduct at Ohms Law with no reactance,although this an ideal situation that I have never seen. The best I have got experimentally is 75% of the full conduction that would occur at ohms law value (using an air core.) Perhaps the plastic core holding the wire also inhibits this resonance,in addition to the internal capacitance involved with thousands of winds. The ignorance about the facts concerning resonance usually gets expressed as the question "If I can obtain more amperage than is being inputed in a parallel resonant circuit is this not free energy?" Another famous question I have heard; "In a transformer the voltage is raised with corresponding decrease in the amperage, but how then when the voltage is raised by resonance both of these quantities increase?" And lastly my favorite question, If the conservation of energy states that the sum of energies expressed as kinetic and potential (in electrical resonance these are magnetic and electrical fields) are a constant than when one increases the other will decrease. How is it possible to make a system where both of these can simultaneously increase and react with each other to produce a theoretical over unity? I will attempt to answer the first two questions. In the Stephen King movie in the background called "Needful Things" ,which these certainly are, the cop asks the priest If he believes in the devil. The priest says something like you cant have one without the other. So resonance is often quoted without the counterpart known as anti-resonance. This is the parallel resonant circuit. So what is this resonant choke circuit Meyer is quoted as using? I thought I might describe my understanding of this. Resonant circuits at first glance may seem to disobey modern conceptions of how electricity should travel. We are taught in DC circuits that current takes the path of least resistance. In AC circuits the obvious carrying forth of this analogy would be that given a choice or branch of a lower and higher impedance the lower would be chosen. In actual fact the opposite effect can and does take place. I have shown in my own experimentation a circuit of 100,000 ohms impedance essentially in parallel with a 500 ohm branch in which the current path exclusively takes the 100,000 ohm impedance path. A quite a bit of ruckus has been raised in the last 10 years about zero point energy, vacuum energy potential and so forth. I would like to be like a botanist who tried to classify and organize different pepper species 50 years ago. A maze of confusion existed then. Perhaps the crux of the biscuit started with Joe Newmans invention and his definition of Unobvious force and energy.(No offense intended against Keely,Tesla,Moray ect. as being the first) In fact I know nothing of Keelys teaching but perhaps this is what is reffered as a neutral center. Not to get off the point here but in harder times my working comrade who is sorely needed at this point in time accused me a being the devils advocate.( I need that person to come back to work so if anyone knows the whereabouts of Sean Farmer from Louisiana/Ohio .e mail me) Anyways to play the devils advocate is to ask one thing as I gulp the tequila worm. Unobvious force and energy implies two forces acting in opposition. If no movement takes place no work or energy takes place. Is there an opposite to an unobvious force? Is it possible to create two unobvious potentials and seek to harness this unobvious energy by their reaction? To interrupt again I would say that I have read some of Tom Beardens material over the years and I dont understand it that well because of my education. But I am trying to explain things in terms I and others might more easily comprehend. Now in the case of an alternating current through an inductor the magnetic field that emerges from the coiled geometry of the wire expresses itself as a continual resistive voltage against the source voltage. This happens because that magnetic field is continually changing in response to the continually changing AC input. From zero to maximum voltage the expanding field opposes its source emf exactly as occurs in DC induction. >From maximum voltage back down to zero the field again opposes the source because the magnetic field has the quality of inertia; it is moving in the direction of expansion in space while the input or source voltage is now working to decrease this effect. Because of this magnetic inertia by the time the source voltage has returned to its zero position the magnetic field is actually at its maximum point. When the source voltage then reverses polarity the collapsing field once again forces a opposite voltage by the reversing magnetic field. In DC circuits this is known as a back or opposite counter-emf due to the coils own self induction. Of course these actions are known by the statement that current and voltage are 90 degrees out of phase in AC inductive circuits. It is sort of like being in a shower and turning the water to hot and cold in oscillation, by the time the hot water hits the switch is at cold because of this time lag. Cause and effect are not in harmony but are 90 degrees out of phase. Naturally resonance is accomplished by making these two factors occur IN phase. To do this the magnetic field must move as though it posseses no inertia and instantaneously responds to its impressed voltage with no time lag. Due to the fact that the ferromagnetic substances are domains of heavy inertia they will not respond to resonance, if fact it is quite impossible to apply the ideas of resonance to our iron-age ferromagnetics. Again they will not even come close to conducting at the ohms law value dictated by ideas of resonance by the usual ideas of cancelling inductive reactance by its capacitive reactive opposite. So if it is accepted that magnetic fields from resonance particularly from an air core are acting in an inertia free environment we can easily see how high frequency harmonics can occur. The field is much weaker than that induced by ferromagnetics but yet at the same time it can move through space thousands of times faster. These things led me to a method of making air core coils ring at a very high frequencies superceeding that of the quarter wavelength method used and discovered by Tesla.That method often used the short circuit to the power supply to energize a resonant process which prevents the short from acting again until the oscllations die down in which the arc once again triggers this. This represents a process of going in and out of resonance. To circumvent the problem of when the arc would be allowed to take place rotary arc gap constructions were devised so that the arc might occur exactly when desired. These are still in use today as a superior method, and people who know about those things are amazed that solid state technology can barely compare to Tesla's original mechanical methods. ( I stand to be corrected on this.I am not a tesla coil builder) In fact the rotary arc gap method can be entirely done away with by constructing a circuit that is both series and parallel resonant and allowing the arc to occur at this junction. This takes the place of the dead short to the transformer and then consists of maximum impedance and parallel resonance during short, and series resonant during shut off time. Instead of an oscillation in and out of resonance the oscillation ocurrs between the two opposite kinds of resonance. Having failed to convey my original idea of explaining things to the common man I must return the thoughts I started to express. The field obtained by resonance will act as if it has no inertia. Therefore it would seem to indicate that no work was involved in establishing this magnetic field that can rapidly move through space since no resistive forces seem to be acting. Actually this is not the case. This is where unobvious force laws come to light. In order to make these magnetic fields in series resonance to act as if they have no inertia the actual voltage forces acting become much higher than their source potential. This is known as the series resonant rise of voltage. But the voltages across the inductor and capacitor are against each other so that if the voltage across both in series are measured it shows only the source voltage. But inside the circuit itself a high voltage against itself is taking place with the difference at any time expressed as their difference, even though the voltages inside might be 15 times the source voltage as in the coils I have used. This then represents a unobvious potential. The free energy scientist comes along and says BY GOD I think I'll capture this effect by placing a load across one of these, but not both because that would give an amperage path that would shut off the whole effect. But when our ham free energy dude does just one of these he discovers that the path that amperage took in going through the load has choked out the high voltage that has caused the effect to begin with! This is the catch-22 that any resonant researcher worth his salt discovered before he was born! The old cart before the horse syndrome. By placing a load parallel to either side in an attempt to withdraw energy by our voltage times amperage concoctions we view as energy we have upset the entire applecart. We are left with nothing but our own free energy delusions which has proven to be idiotic. Back to the devils advocate; what is the opposite of unobvious force? at the midpoint of the series resonant circuit exists an unobvious negative compression in which electrons are being compressed but cannot be used because ... On the other side of the world someone has done the same experiment but he did it backwards so that midpoint is an unobvious vacuum of electrons or an unobvious positive potential... So that the difference between these two unobvious potentials is actually twice that of either side alone, and that a method of harnessing unobvious potentials can be realized here by placing the correct kind of load between the midpoints. In answer to the first question the amperage was able to exceed the input but the secondary effect still did not exceed Ohms law value which might be deemed necessary for over unity. In answer to the second question the method of obtaining both the voltage AND amperage extraction from that circuit at the stated expression is only its own expression while locked inside itself. When converted the catch-22 is in effect. In answer to the third question is common sense contained at www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 Now I have just recieived the bad news that I have been offered a job. After staying up all night once again, I now realise that this internet BS is gettitng to my head and its time to take home the bacon once again. Sincere in the art of speculating and being a member of the bums club for the longest time endurable. Not many entrees left from the Tesla Electric Co. Wont be making more,but will remain as a lurker. Naz Dravia Harvey D.Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net PS The application of DC pulsing to an electrolysis cell in the form of a resonant coordination with inductance is problematically involved with the fact that while the cell should act as a capacity it also serves as a short. Dont understand any chords on a circle hypothesis though----HDN ---------- > From: Dennis C. Lee > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com; KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net; vortex-L@eskimo.com > Cc: Eric Howlett ; hic@world.std.com; jkokor@alum.mit.edu; discjt@servtech.com; jsearl@tako.demon.co.uk; lstelmac@lynx.neu.edu; rsmith@itiip.com; 73577.123@compuserve.com; tcapizzi@world.std.com; tom.duff@poweroasis.com > Subject: Missing Meyer Patent Info > Date: Sunday, October 25, 1998 10:57 AM > > Hi; > > As I recall, the Meyer hydrogen cell patant with two concentric electrodes > was very specific on almost all details of the design except for the > thickness of the stainless steel electrode cylinders. Insignificant? > Accident? Key piece of info on the design I believe. And probably one of the > most difficult parameter's to determine. I think that the electrodes mass > chord(s) must be also tuned to the resonant frequency of the water molecule > bonds. Keely experimented with Chladni plates to learn how to tune objects > dimensionally. Establishing standing electrical resonance waves with the > water molecule bonds, which also keeps in sympathic vibration with the > electrode mass chord(s), may be a key design feature. Isn't resonance > analogus to superconductance? > > Also, I notice that the electrolysis signal waveform amplitudes was about > 1000 V on the final cycle. If the electrolysis process runs cool under these > voltage levels, there must be a coherent collisionless vibration keeping the > entire cell assembly in synchronous harmony. > > If I suddenly saw pink dots missing from a prototype, I too would probably > be distracted to the point of not being able to get the powersupply tuned. I > might think, what is the idea here? Either somebody doesn't understand the > higher dimensional laws or they think that they're better, or more powerful, > or they won't be noticed by the universe, or what? Isn't a positive energy > unit added to a negative energy unit equal to zero? > > Regards; > Dennis > > > Tall Ships > http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > To leave this list, email > with the body text: leave Keelynet > list archives and on line subscription forms are at > http://dallastexas.net/keelynet/ > ------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 28 09:20:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA12985; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:13:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:13:48 -0800 From: UNIR2B1@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 12:09:53 EST To: cturner@npwt.net Cc: goldbug@worldaccessnet.com, y2k-survival@infostream.net, SedonaY2K@mail-list.com, nhne@nhne.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, rtoler@cland.netmarklandrockisland.com, UFOLAWYER1@aol.com, Terri Schoolden , lkvp@mail.awod.com, Sharon , Vince Goetsch <3wishes@wishgranted.com>, Carolyn , richarda@icx.net, piercemark@hotmail.com, PetMagic@aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: 'PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY' (RAIPDLY) FORMING... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"W8EJo2.0.pA3.C3rDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7341 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 98-10-25 19:50:26 EST, you write: Hi, Candace-- >What state is the Nov meeting? We're in the NE corner of Alabama, in a 'safe zone’ that appears on the various “future maps” (WRT topology and oceanographic predictions that now seem emergent in the Antarctic). We disclose our precise to those who personally express agreement with our rationale. >I think we missed some of this. Yes; sorry. We're both confronting Y2K, but with different emphases; therefore, I've addressed some of our apparent discrepancies below. >...reality check... >...It's all in the attitude and >time being spent on the preparations. Because I'm inviting innovators and sanguinarians to assemble in a 'PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY', you've evidently assumed that we've neglected basic provisions. Not so. Survival stores are first priority; however, they are not the *only* priority. Before Y2K was even an issue, many people were already seeking alternatives to dependence on contaminated commercial agriculture, poisoned public water and the polluting & inefficient power umbilical. Those who have expressed the sincerest interest in our endeavor already have their families' survival preparations well in hand, and their eyes on the next millennium. For us, Y2K merely represents the inevitable death throes of a system that has been long obsolescent. Our current societal predicament is not a signal to *preserve* the status quo (including outmoded food, water, shelter,& energy methodologies), but to finally *improve* it. >...city folks don't have a clue... >...makes me wonder if they see y2k >as a 10 yr. problem... A 10-year suspension of the status quo is not a problem--the status quo IS the problem. Y2K is only one part of a permanent, planetary “house cleaning”. Hoarding 10 years' survival provisions wastes resources that could be invested in the future; it risks too much on the vain hope that institutions already dead will somehow return. >So needless to say, .someone >who doesn't relocate >or spend $10,000 plus before 1/1/1999 >is way >behind... >I think if you haven't done that much >(and someone on minimum wage >can get that many credit cards)... So your recipe for a minimum wage earner's Y2K problem is simply to plunge into an additional $10K+ of credit card debt over the next two months? We apparently differ as in how we distinguish Y2K and Christmas. I don't associate Y2K with automatic debt amnesty; rather I think Richard correctly posted >debt-free< status as prime preparedness criterion. Keeping survival expenditures within affordable limits poses a dilemma between *investing in means of producing* self-sufficiency, and *spending on provisions* that will inevitably be depleted. The answer lies in low-cost, innovative, super-efficient production means--but it takes willingness to alter one's lifestyle to embrace them, and the know-how and group cooperation needed to develop and implement them. >...that things will get so bad for you >that suicide or joining FEMA will seem attractive. For those of you--especially you parents--who haven’t yet completed your preparations yet, Don’t give up! DON’T COMMIT SUICIDE!! :) Now, WRT group organization: >...for these y2k times, what I advise >most people to look for is someone who is serious about... >Small group perservation. Period. "Small group preservation" might be simple for those caught in the teeth of necessity, whose immediate, life-and-death choices are narrow and obvious; or for a band of marauders whose amoral principle of group cohesion consists of "us against them". However, any civilized assemblage that's larger (and hence, commensurably more powerful and productive) than a solitary, nuclear family will inevitably confront the potential for individual / collective conflict. The public's mass Ignorance of consensus-building methods--i.e., *self- governance*--is the ULTIMATE danger of Y2K. We're playing into the hands of a common enemy if we allow this universal problem to divide us into hopelessly small, isolated enclaves with which foreign-manned FEMA troops can easily have their way. Y2K demands that we mature; we must become self-sufficient spiritually and socially, as well materially. The chronic inability to get along--especially when faced with a *mutual* problem--is childishness, pure & simple. It's been 2000 years since Christ; perhaps it's time to "put away childish things". >But I have a Trust and would be interested in seeing a copy of the >Trust you're proposing here. The more I consider the respondent's suggestion, the better it looks. Therefore, I'm looking into placing the land in a 'pure trust', and will welcome your skeptical critique of specifics, as they develop. Regards, Russ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 28 14:00:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA09969; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 13:54:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 13:54:40 -0800 X-AirNote: 1 Message-ID: <01BE028B.32F6D720.zpe@pdq.net> From: ZPE To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" , "'KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net'" , "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: VORTEX COUNTDOWN COMPLETE !!! Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:53:42 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 7 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"emF4l3.0.KR2.TAvDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7342 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Greetings all! The day has finally arrived! See http://freeweb.pdq.net/zpe for the good news! Best Wishes, ZPE From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 28 15:26:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA22828; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:23:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:23:57 -0800 Message-ID: <3637CEFF.584F@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:12:16 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hodowanec Detector References: <199810280520.VAA11836@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <363731A7.89045445@sunherald.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VZDva.0.Sa5.AUwDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7343 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > The basic detector doesn't give me a popcorn sound, but I can't puzzle > out the problem with th buffered version. Every time I try to tune it, > I'm greeted with > BBBEEERRRRRRRRRRTTTTTT...BMP...BMP...BMP...BMP...BMP...etc. Ahh, technical talk at last! Now this is more like what I like to see here on freenrg-l! This description did the trick for me. I think I know what the problem is here. It may be your batteries! If the batteries are not nearly identical in voltage, then there is an amplified version of the voltage difference at the output of the amp, and it can go into a 'motorboating' mode, a very slow oscillation. Try a brand new pair of batteries and see if it acts differerntly. > If I tune > it, the BMP rate goes up or down accordingly. This can't be something > produced outside the detector, because I can control it with the > potentiometers. There must be some fault in my detector. Try the batteries first. If this changes the problem, connect both batteries in series, and use a voltage divider to create a virtual ground for the circuit. This will keep v+ and v- to the op amp at the same voltage with respect to ground. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 28 17:36:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA03701; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:20:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:20:37 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981029092010.00a8e410@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:20:10 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Re: A simulated model of the Zaev's generator In-Reply-To: <776e127d.3636f5f3@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"LjXbX.0.0v.4ByDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7344 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Jean-Louis, >You will find a simulated model of the Zaev's generator which uses a nonlinear >capacitor in my web site at: > >http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/nlcsim.htm > >I hope this will help you to understand of this device can run... Sorry, it just makes me wonder where the bug is in your simulation software! Something which appears obviously wrong is as follows :- Starting with the capacitor discharged, and then turning switch SW1 ON means that we should get 50volts divided by 10ohms flowing in the first instant (the peak of the blue current curve). Once the capacitor is fully charged, it will have 50volts across it - it cannot have more regardless of what capacitance it now has. Don't you agree? So when SW1 is turned OFF and SW2 is turned ON, we expect to see an instantaneous current flowing of 50volts divided by the 10ohm load - which is exactly the same as the peak charge up current. So why is the peak of the red current curve almost twice as high as the peak of the blue current curve? I think it should be exactly the same height. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 28 17:41:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA09909; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:35:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:35:12 -0800 Message-ID: <0c8701be02db$d1ff1080$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: "sno" , , "KeelyNet" , Subject: Re: Y2K/Goverment/Free energy Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:30:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZKZKU3.0.eQ2.BPyDs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7345 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Assuming the government and corporations, come to the >conclusion, sometime in 1999, that "TheEndOfTheWorldAs >WeKnowIt (TEOTWASKI), is a good possibility. You make a funny. >If the above assumptions are correct, can we expect >the release of some sort of free energy device in 1999. No. >If released in what form and where might one look for it >(am also assuming it would not be released directly). None. >Maybe not free energy but highly efficient, inexpensive >generator? Never. >Any thoughts or comments appreciated....steven opelc >From: Moody, Carla A >Sent: Thursday, October 22, 1998 3:13 PM >To: FAC Staff >Subject: FW: Year 2000 >Importance: High >Sensitivity: Confidential > > OK, I know we are all busy, but at least this might make the load >lighter for a minute or two... > >PLEASE POST IN A CONSPICUOUS LOCATION > > > To: All Appropriate Personnel > Subject: Y2K Problem Solved > >Corporate has defined a lower cost alternative for Desktop conversions > that also addresses the Y2K (Year 2000) issue: > >The goal is to remove all computers from the desktop by Jan, 1999. >Instead, everyone will be provided with an Etch-A-Sketch. > >There are many sound reasons for doing this: > 1. No Y2K problems > 2. No technical glitches, keeping work from being done. > 3. No more wasted time reading and writing emails. > 4. Substantial hardware cost savings. > >Frequently Asked Questions from the Etch-A-Sketch Help Desk: > Q: My Etch-A-Sketch has all of these funny little lines all over > the screen. What do I do? > A: Pick it up and shake it. > > Q: How do I turn my Etch-A-Sketch off? > A: Pick it up and shake it. > > Q: What's the shortcut for Undo? > A: Pick it up and shake it. > > Q: How do I create a New Document window? > A: Pick it up and shake it. > > Q: How do I set the background and foreground to the same color? > A: Pick it up and shake it. > > Q: What is the proper procedure for rebooting my Etch-A-Sketch? > A: Pick it up and shake it. > > Q: How do I delete a document on my Etch-A-Sketch? > A: Pick it up and shake it. > > Q: How do I save my Etch-A-Sketch document? > A: Don't shake it > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 28 19:39:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA22205; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:31:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:31:25 -0800 Message-ID: <0f6101be02ec$3a439e80$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: "ZPE" , , , Subject: Re: VORTEX COUNTDOWN COMPLETE !!! Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:28:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"ikb7Q.0.nQ5.C6-Ds"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7346 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Here you go ZPE, I have outdone nostrodamus, I made 1 prediction and it came true - 100% success rate- HAHA!, this from a message I sent you on 9/7/98 ZPE>>Also, if a potential investor decides to "wait" for the Oct 28th >>disclosure, he runs the risk that we WILL establish solid funding contacts >>which would mean public disclosure will never happen. Bill>Exactly what I predict you will say, wether you get it or not, hope you can >prove me wrong. No release, and the multitudes in Russia are still starving and many are predicted to freeze to death this winter, 2 years is too long. How can you sleep at night knowing your personal gain(money) will cause thousands if not hundreds of thousands to die? The blood on your hands is not so easily washed off. >Greetings all! > >The day has finally arrived! See http://freeweb.pdq.net/zpe for the good news! > >Best Wishes, >ZPE From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 28 19:43:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA23187; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:34:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:34:06 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19981028224030.00b161f0@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:40:32 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re: A simulated model of the Zaev's generator Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"5J_17.0.vf5.j8-Ds"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7347 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com OK, some questions. What is the relation between voltage and capacity? I see an equation in the first figure which I take to mean that capacity is linearly related to voltage, increasing monotonically with voltage. Yes? This would be uncommon, most varactor diodes ( nonlinear caps used to tune radio circuits ) decrease with voltage, but certainly something that could be engineered. A temperature value is indicated on the graph, but I see no temp relation in the equation. If you reverse the capacity-voltage relation, do you see the opposite in your model? That is, charge energy is always larger than discharge energy? If so, where did the energy go? Does the cap model used here have a term for dissipation? K. At 09:20 AM 10/29/98 +0800, you wrote: >>You will find a simulated model of the Zaev's generator which uses a >nonlinear >>capacitor in my web site at: >> >>http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/nlcsim.htm >> >>I hope this will help you to understand of this device can run... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Oct 28 23:04:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA20670; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:02:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:02:31 -0800 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981028102227.008a1100@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:22:27 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Hydroxy research Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"T4qrD2.0.u25.7C1Es"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7349 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hydroxy, a collective effort. Dear All, I have been reviewing laterally thousands of posts on the Hydroxy Technology. I know that many here have a Knudtson file. (smile) Let alone those who we don't like to think about, that also listen to this news group. I am never more satisfied with technology, than I am with the development of the internet. The speed and world wide accessibility that this medium offers is amazing to me. In the blink of an eye I can send a message to nearly anyone, anywhere in the world. To me this is fantastic, compared to the previous use of phone or air-mail, or courier, when Brown I and others worked in the early days of Hydroxy Technology. Here, we can send faxes, documents, photos, posts and sounds and real time video images, back an forth at will. I communicate with hundreds, of groups all over the world, who are doing research in this technology. Some of them individuals like George Wiseman, others forming small consortiums of participating members. In each case, I try to answer each post honestly clearly and in a timely manner. I hope that you can see that there is a lot of chance for replication and the need to answer many of the same questions several times over. I have respected the request of many here, who have asked me to respond to you in private, and will continue to do so, but I just can't stop the feeling that we are over looking to chance to enter into a collective effort using this fantastic medium. In many of the threads here, I see this type of communalism of openly shared information, without regard of accolades or receiving credit, or worries over money concerns. To me, this is real Science, the quest for an ever-increasing understanding of the universe. Yet, I do feel that in today's world, science often does not materialize, until economic progress can be shown. The benefit of financial gain, in a real and practical sense, means additional money for continued research. I have been offered a rare opportunity, that of a reward grant for the demonstration of Hydroxy gas, as a welding technology for use in outer space. In the near future, there is to be a push on, for the development of a international space station. Needless to say, many answers of how to construct such a thing, in zero need to be addressed. The interest in Hydroxy technologies for these applications, has come about because of a number of factors. !) It burns in a complete vacuum. 2) It is has proven safe over time, there are commercial Hydroxy welders that now are more than 15 years old. 3) The fuel for these units is water. Easy to transport to space and once again, very safe. 4) It will weld aluminum and other light materials in a total vacuum. The key lies in the fact that I hold the core technology that allows for the operation of these units in zero gravity. A, no moving part, type of control that then allows the units to be spun or rotated, forming the inertial gravity replacement, of centrifugal force. My issue lies in whether those of you involved with me individually, would like to form a group to approach this goal. Group issues I personally would like to see the group be initially open to anyone who would seek to help. Members of any country of origin, be allowed to join. I would set a minimum age of membership of 18 years or Collage enrolment. All members of the group would equally participate in 50 % of the award money, upon successful completion of the unit and disbursement of the funds. An additional 30% to be divided by vote of the membership, to those who have contributed the most. Myself excluded, as I seek to donate my end of the technology to the group. The remaining 20% of the award to be, set aside for funding this same group, in continuing Hydroxy technology research. Keep in mind that I can generate hydrogen and oxygen from stone, a refueling technology to be used on the moon or other planets would be my next proposed goal. My thoughts are that this forum is not the appropriate place for this eventual group, but perhaps Bill B. would be willing to sponsor another news group for this task. I would hope that something could be done using this medium of the Internet. Please take some time to think about this idea, but I would much like to hear your thoughts. TR Knudtson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 29 00:49:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA12931; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 00:47:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 00:47:51 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981029085451.00e40250@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 03:54:51 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Hydroxy research Resent-Message-ID: <"Q14m1.0.y93.tk2Es"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7350 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi TR; You can count me in! Best Regards; Dennis C. Lee At 10:22 AM 10/28/98 -0800, you wrote: >Hydroxy, a collective effort. > >Dear All, > >I have been reviewing laterally thousands of posts on the Hydroxy >Technology. I know that many here have a Knudtson file. (smile) Let alone >those who we don't like to think about, that also listen to this news group. > >I am never more satisfied with technology, than I am with the development >of the internet. The speed and world wide accessibility that this medium >offers is amazing to me. In the blink of an eye I can send a message to >nearly anyone, anywhere in the world. To me this is fantastic, compared to >the previous use of phone or air-mail, or courier, when Brown I and others >worked in the early days of Hydroxy Technology. Here, we can send faxes, >documents, photos, posts and sounds and real time video images, back an >forth at will. > >I communicate with hundreds, of groups all over the world, who are doing >research in this technology. Some of them individuals like George Wiseman, >others forming small consortiums of participating members. In each case, I >try to answer each post honestly clearly and in a timely manner. I hope >that you can see that there is a lot of chance for replication and the need >to answer many of the same questions several times over. I have respected >the request of many here, who have asked me to respond to you in private, >and will continue to do so, but I just can't stop the feeling that we are >over looking to chance to enter into a collective effort using this >fantastic medium. In many of the threads here, I see this type of >communalism of openly shared information, without regard of accolades or >receiving credit, or worries over money concerns. To me, this is real >Science, the quest for an ever-increasing understanding of the universe. > >Yet, I do feel that in today's world, science often does not materialize, >until economic progress can be shown. The benefit of financial gain, in a >real and practical sense, means additional money for continued research. > >I have been offered a rare opportunity, that of a reward grant for the >demonstration of Hydroxy gas, as a welding technology for use in outer space. > >In the near future, there is to be a push on, for the development of a >international space station. Needless to say, many answers of how to >construct such a thing, in zero need to be addressed. > >The interest in Hydroxy technologies for these applications, has come about >because of a number of factors. > >!) It burns in a complete vacuum. > >2) It is has proven safe over time, there are commercial Hydroxy welders >that now are more than 15 years old. > >3) The fuel for these units is water. Easy to transport to space and once >again, very safe. > >4) It will weld aluminum and other light materials in a total vacuum. > >The key lies in the fact that I hold the core technology that allows for >the operation of these units in zero gravity. A, no moving part, type of >control that then allows the units to be spun or rotated, forming the >inertial gravity replacement, of centrifugal force. > >My issue lies in whether those of you involved with me individually, would >like to form a group to approach this goal. > >Group issues > >I personally would like to see the group be initially open to anyone who >would seek to help. > >Members of any country of origin, be allowed to join. > >I would set a minimum age of membership of 18 years or Collage enrolment. > >All members of the group would equally participate in 50 % of the award >money, upon successful completion of the unit and disbursement of the funds. > >An additional 30% to be divided by vote of the membership, to those who >have contributed the most. Myself excluded, as I seek to donate my end of >the technology to the group. > >The remaining 20% of the award to be, set aside for funding this same >group, in continuing Hydroxy technology research. Keep in mind that I can >generate hydrogen and oxygen from stone, a refueling technology to be used >on the moon or other planets would be my next proposed goal. > >My thoughts are that this forum is not the appropriate place for this >eventual group, but perhaps Bill B. would be willing to sponsor another >news group for this task. > >I would hope that something could be done using this medium of the Internet. > >Please take some time to think about this idea, but I would much like to >hear your thoughts. > >TR Knudtson > > > > Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 29 00:57:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA15294; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 00:54:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 00:54:04 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <4921a66.36382cf0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 03:53:04 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: A simulated model of the Zaev's generator Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Resent-Message-ID: <"Vwp2p3.0.uk3.iq2Es"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7351 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 29/10/98 02:35:03 Paris, Madrid, jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au wrote : > So why is the peak of the red current curve almost twice as high > as the peak of the blue current curve? I think it should be > exactly the same height. > Hi John, Don't forget that there is a NONLINEAR capacitor in the circuit, this is a simulation model of the Zaev's generator. The capacitance value is different between the charging sequence and the discharging sequence... This is only a "theorical model" for understanding purpose. So the capacitance is about 30uF during the charge and drops to 10uF during the discharge. This is the reason why the discharge current is different during the charge/discharge sequence. The capacitance change can be produced with ferroelectric effect, nonlinear dielectric medium, mechanical action, temperature change....vaccuum fluctuations... Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 29 01:39:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA25296; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 01:36:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 01:36:36 -0800 Message-ID: <3638332C.6697FDD3@harti.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:19:40 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, John Winterflood , Jean Louis Naudin Subject: Re: A simulated model of the Zaev's generator References: <3.0.1.32.19981029092010.00a8e410@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"I9YFZ.0.5B6.ZS3Es"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7352 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com John Winterflood wrote: > > Hi Jean-Louis, > > >You will find a simulated model of the Zaev's generator which uses a > nonlinear > >capacitor in my web site at: > > > >http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/nlcsim.htm > > > >I hope this will help you to understand of this device can run... > > Sorry, it just makes me wonder where the bug is in your simulation > software! > > Something which appears obviously wrong is as follows :- > > Starting with the capacitor discharged, and then turning switch SW1 > ON means that we should get 50volts divided by 10ohms flowing in the > first instant (the peak of the blue current curve). > > Once the capacitor is fully charged, it will have 50volts across > it - it cannot have more regardless of what capacitance it now has. > Don't you agree? > > So when SW1 is turned OFF and SW2 is turned ON, we expect to see > an instantaneous current flowing of 50volts divided by the 10ohm > load - which is exactly the same as the peak charge up current. > > So why is the peak of the red current curve almost twice as high > as the peak of the blue current curve? I think it should be > exactly the same height. Yes, he is right. It must be a longer decayed discharge instead ! But the initial value of current would be equal, cause the voltage stays constant. As capacitance C is increased the discharge would just be longer. This is different to the case, where heat is changing the capacitance and thus also changing the voltage due to Q=CV stays constant ! I guess as long as you could not include the heat into the simulation, iut is not worth doing it... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 29 01:40:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA25489; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 01:37:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 01:37:37 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981029173944.00a8ce00@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:39:44 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, JNaudin509@aol.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Re: A simulated model of the Zaev's generator In-Reply-To: <4921a66.36382cf0@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"4wEAA.0.BE6.WT3Es"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7353 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >> So why is the peak of the red current curve almost twice as high >> as the peak of the blue current curve? I think it should be >> exactly the same height. > >Don't forget that there is a NONLINEAR capacitor in the circuit, this is a >simulation model of the Zaev's generator. The capacitance value is different >between the charging sequence and the discharging sequence... This is only a >"theorical model" for understanding purpose. So the capacitance is about 30uF >during the charge and drops to 10uF during the discharge. This is the reason >why the discharge current is different during the charge/discharge sequence. >The capacitance change can be produced with ferroelectric effect, nonlinear >dielectric medium, mechanical action, temperature change....vaccuum >fluctuations... I hadn't forgotten that it was nonlinear. In fact I had assumed that the capacitance was dependent on the voltage since in the circuit diagram there is a formula for its capacitance of 10uF+(v(3)*4e-6). Since you haven't made plain what v(3) is I assumed it was the only voltage that the capacitor has access to which is the voltage that it is charged to. So if we initially charge the capacitor up to 50volts, the question is how does it suddenly become twice as great just by sitting there charged. If the capacitance is dependent on the voltage that it is charged to, then it will not change if it is just sitting there charged to 50volts. If on the other hand v(3) is some switching voltage, then I can see that the capacitance will change (but this can hardly be described as a non-linear capacitance. It is more of a voltage controlled or servo-controlled capacitor). If you suddenly reduce the capacitance (by pulling the plates apart for instance) then for sure the voltage shoots up and stored energy increases because you have done work in that action of pulling the plates apart. It is rather probable that work will also be done by whatever other means you can devise of reducing the capacitance of a charged capacitor. It is analagous to compressing a balloon that already has some pressure in it. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 29 03:49:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA02216; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 03:48:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 03:48:24 -0800 X-Sender: bauer_d@mailserver.rz-berlin.mpg.de Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:43:54 +0100 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dieter Bauer Subject: About the non-linearity of Zaev capacitor source Resent-Message-ID: <"idLXp1.0.UY.7O5Es"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7354 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi all ! To get the Zaev converter working I think it is important as well, that the dielectrics has a nonlinearity. The nonlinearity is important because it enforces the temperature dependence. This can be seen if you make an diagram with D ~ Q as the y-axis and E ~ U as the x-axis for different temperatures. Such curves are analogous to the B - H lines of an ferromagnetic material. If you perform the cycle by adiabatic charging, thermal relaxation at constant charge and isothermic discharging then this can be drawn as adiabatic - irreversible relaxation - isotherm cycle in this diagram. Such an diagram is an idealized working diagram of this cycle. Best regards Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 29 04:58:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA14895; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 04:56:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 04:56:54 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <577efe94.363865f1@aol.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 07:56:17 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au, serjio@glasnet.ru, harti@harti.com, leoguitar@vossnet.de, WDBAUER@vossnet.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: A simulated model of the Zaev's generator Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Resent-Message-ID: <"do7UH.0.fe3.LO6Es"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7355 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 29/10/98 10:39:58 Paris, Madrid, jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au wrote : > I hadn't forgotten that it was nonlinear. In fact I had assumed that > the capacitance was dependent on the voltage since in the circuit > diagram there is a formula for its capacitance of 10uF+(v(3)*4e-6). > Since you haven't made plain what v(3) is I assumed it was the only > voltage that the capacitor has access to which is the voltage that > it is charged to Hi John, The v(3) node is only used to handle the capacitance variation. The v(3) node is not used as a voltage source but only as a trigger, so no energy from v(3) is used. The capacitance of C1 is : C=10uF+(v(3)*4e-6) when v(3) is equal to 5 volts, C1= 10uF + (20uF) = 30 uF (charge) when v(3) is equal to 0 volts, C1= 10uF + ( 0 uF) = 10 uF (discharge) I repeat that this is only a simulation, and the changing of the capacitance must be produced by some "external" means like ferroelectric effect, nonlinear dielectric medium, mechanical action, temperature change....vaccuum fluctuations... But this simple diagram shows how this could works.... ps: I have added the node 3 reference in my diagram (in my web site) for a better understanding. Please, if you have a few time, test and check by yourself, my circuit with Microcap V, you may download freely the demo version at :http://www.micro- cap.co.uk You can also download my working model of this simulation, in my web site at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/nlcsim.htm Ps: The Stefan Hartmann experiment with temperature is a good example for demonstarting experimentaly the main effect, the best way will be to use the Sergey's "varicond"... Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 29 05:50:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA06293; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 05:48:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 05:48:33 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981029135422.00e5e5e0@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 08:54:22 -0500 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: The CF answer? (was Re: A cheaper 3rd suggestion with an experiment protocol. Palladium: 29 isotope states, 6 stable.) Cc: Alan.CHEAH@adecco.com, alex@frolov.spb.ru, ahannan@MIT.EDU, deadnuts@deadnuts.com, "apple pie" , lupem@world.std.com, bso@acm.org, DaleSVP@ipa.net, dtassen@c-zone.net, clsmith@darwin.bu.edu, ccantor@sequenom.com, 76753.3551@CompuServe.COM, eben@ergeng.com, ehill@world.std.com, Eric Howlett , ejp@world.std.com, wordpros@inforamp.net, moy@ziplink.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, gjcheah@guybutler.com, wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu, hic@world.std.com, jkokor@alum.mit.edu Resent-Message-ID: <"YLyeD2.0.BY1.m87Es"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7356 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi; I was trying to suggest a possible mechanism as to how strange elements and particles can originate. David Hudson spent 5 million dollars investigating monatomics. It requires 3-4 months of study to get a handle on it. It is worthwhile effort. At 10:45 AM 10/28/98 -0800, you wrote: >October 28, 1998 > >Vortex, > >My suggestions did not grow out of zero. It grows out of interactions >such we are having now to nuture hints picked up here and there. It's a >continuing basis of education I think. Thank you. >I find the Vortex useful. It is certainly 'democratic' in the quality of >the posts with the least denominator (notice I left out 'common') having >equal voice in things to irritation though, many times. oh well. Sorry if you refer to me. I've resigned myself that nothing positive can be done about the icecap except crossing one's fingers. I give up. Are you happy? >I thought furthur on the subject, reflecting on Scott's reference about >Bush. I see he ran "after the effect" analysis. Similar to Tom Passell's >effort, long not recognized enough (I realize now). I would give >reference >to Jed to look up Tom Passell's work when he asked what became of the >used >electrodes of past experiments. It would be interesting to look for monatomics. I have a few friends at MIT labs that would let me test for monatomics. I don't know if David Hudson would give me the exact spectroscopy profile but I know the range the IR doublet should be within. >Bush's analysis are fine in giving him some indications of isotope >specific >effects on a pd-d experiment. What I find missing then is a protocol, >which >should have been done in hindsight, of all the experiments: To have >examined >the palladium samples for isotopic distribution PRIOR to running a pd-d >experiment. Also afterwards. Then my suggestions on isotope specificity >would >not have been needed. Or the puzzle continue on erratic replications. > >The second suggestion was to introduce slow neutrons from external >sources >rather than wait for neutrons to happen within a high loaded Pd lattice. >I believe, in this case, you do not have to load it high to observe or >expect >effects. And you can use your regular supply of "isotopically alloyed" >pure >palladium samples, as long as the prior and after protocol of isotopic >analysis >has been made. This is in essence, a third, cheaper suggestion to >finding out >about nuclear isotopic effects in loaded palladium when it works. Has monatomic theory been looked at? It makes sense that palladium atoms may break free as it is being hydrogen loaded. What about the nature of the hydrogen bond? Is it monatomic when it is loaded. Does it go from diatomic to monatomic in the loading process? Is this accounted for in the energy requirements to break the bond? Does loading into palladium use less energy to break the hydrogen bond somehow? I think I have the answer. The weird nuclear stuff is from the monatomic palladium magnetic field collapse transmuting the atom. The energy is from monatomic hydrogen recombining as it escapes the lattice. I'm not sure about superconductor magnetic oversaturation collapse. Would this produce OU energy? >Off Topic: > > What Planck did not mention was that as new replaces old, he did not > pass jugement on whether the old was outmoded or that the new was more > valid. So we may be cursed to repeat the past in ignorance if the new >is > inflexibly rigid as the old. > > I was amused when the comment was made that "I am not so open minded > that my brain falls out". On thinking, it occurred to me that this > statement was rather egotisticle (or should the spelling have > been egotesticle?) :) > > What if you did open your mind and and nothing fell out? I'm looking at a wall of books to my right. We must have different books. I put at least 20 or 30 hours a week on studies (it's fun to me, weird huh?) you guys would laugh at. Time will tell. (I'll probably be killed for it) I have dibs on putting together the superconducting monatomic palladium oversaturated magnetic field collapse triggered transmutation producing weird particles source AND the monatomic hydrogen recombination to diatomic hydrogen producing excess energy source theorems as the basic nature of the cold fusion process for 10/29/98! Nya-nya plplplplplplplplpl ;) The Bible says that if people hate you for doing right in this world, your on the correct track! So I don't care what anyone thinks! Dennis C. Lee Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 29 07:37:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA11879; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 07:35:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 07:35:01 -0800 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hodowanec Detector Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:06:30 -0500 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: <2RIO2UQy8YWK092yn@csonline.net> References: <199810280520.VAA11836@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <363731A7.89045445@sunherald.infi.net> <3637CEFF.584F@tiac.net> In-Reply-To: <3637CEFF.584F@tiac.net> Lines: 44 X-Newsreader: VSoup v1.2.9.27Beta [95/NT] Resent-Message-ID: <"6HDEf3.0.Xv2.Zi8Es"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7357 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >> BBBEEERRRRRRRRRRTTTTTT...BMP...BMP...BMP...BMP...BMP...etc. > >Ahh, technical talk at last! Now this is more like what I like to see >here on freenrg-l! > >This description did the trick for me. > >I think I know what the problem is here. It may be your batteries! > >If the batteries are not nearly identical in voltage, then there is an >amplified version of the voltage difference at the output of the amp, >and it can go into a 'motorboating' mode, a very slow oscillation. >Try a brand new pair of batteries and see if it acts differerntly. >Try the batteries first. If this changes the problem, connect both >batteries in series, and use a voltage divider to create a virtual >ground for the circuit. This will keep v+ and v- to the op amp at the >same voltage with respect to ground. The TI "Rail Splitter" TLE2426 is an IC that can do this, to make sure you have balanced supplies. http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/psheets/abstract/datasht/slos098d.htm At Analog Devices web site http://www.analog.com the data sheet for the OP491 shows a example "False Ground" circuit using an Op-Amp with proper capacitive load compensation (prevent oscillation). Their Application Note 202 is a "Must Read" it is entitled "Making things go right for a change" in Op-Amp circuits. Doing a site search for "Driving Capacitive Loads" will take you to several examples of Virtual/False Ground Generators and the reasoning behind them. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/ Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 29 13:16:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA12093; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:12:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:12:20 -0800 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981028204130.008a2220@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:41:30 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydroxy research In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19981029085451.00e40250@popd.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"_jzFN3.0.ay2.oeDEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7358 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Well Dennis, It looks like we are the only ones. :) All the best TR Knudtson Can you send me general information about yourself and how you might want to help this effort? Private post may be better, but judgeing form the responce on this idea, we may never get starte anyway. I have been for the last three days sending out copies of the idea to others that I work with individualy and am getting the same sort of responce. While many do not want to involve themselves in a collective effort, they are quick to ask if I will still continue to work with them privatly. Somthing I had hoped would not happen. Oh Well! All the best TR Knudtson At 03:54 AM 10/29/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hi TR; > >You can count me in! > >Best Regards; >Dennis C. Lee > > > >At 10:22 AM 10/28/98 -0800, you wrote: >>Hydroxy, a collective effort. >> >>Dear All, >> >>I have been reviewing laterally thousands of posts on the Hydroxy >>Technology. I know that many here have a Knudtson file. (smile) Let alone >>those who we don't like to think about, that also listen to this news group. >> >>I am never more satisfied with technology, than I am with the development >>of the internet. The speed and world wide accessibility that this medium >>offers is amazing to me. In the blink of an eye I can send a message to >>nearly anyone, anywhere in the world. To me this is fantastic, compared to >>the previous use of phone or air-mail, or courier, when Brown I and others >>worked in the early days of Hydroxy Technology. Here, we can send faxes, >>documents, photos, posts and sounds and real time video images, back an >>forth at will. >> >>I communicate with hundreds, of groups all over the world, who are doing >>research in this technology. Some of them individuals like George Wiseman, >>others forming small consortiums of participating members. In each case, I >>try to answer each post honestly clearly and in a timely manner. I hope >>that you can see that there is a lot of chance for replication and the need >>to answer many of the same questions several times over. I have respected >>the request of many here, who have asked me to respond to you in private, >>and will continue to do so, but I just can't stop the feeling that we are >>over looking to chance to enter into a collective effort using this >>fantastic medium. In many of the threads here, I see this type of >>communalism of openly shared information, without regard of accolades or >>receiving credit, or worries over money concerns. To me, this is real >>Science, the quest for an ever-increasing understanding of the universe. >> >>Yet, I do feel that in today's world, science often does not materialize, >>until economic progress can be shown. The benefit of financial gain, in a >>real and practical sense, means additional money for continued research. >> >>I have been offered a rare opportunity, that of a reward grant for the >>demonstration of Hydroxy gas, as a welding technology for use in outer space. >> >>In the near future, there is to be a push on, for the development of a >>international space station. Needless to say, many answers of how to >>construct such a thing, in zero need to be addressed. >> >>The interest in Hydroxy technologies for these applications, has come about >>because of a number of factors. >> >>!) It burns in a complete vacuum. >> >>2) It is has proven safe over time, there are commercial Hydroxy welders >>that now are more than 15 years old. >> >>3) The fuel for these units is water. Easy to transport to space and once >>again, very safe. >> >>4) It will weld aluminum and other light materials in a total vacuum. >> >>The key lies in the fact that I hold the core technology that allows for >>the operation of these units in zero gravity. A, no moving part, type of >>control that then allows the units to be spun or rotated, forming the >>inertial gravity replacement, of centrifugal force. >> >>My issue lies in whether those of you involved with me individually, would >>like to form a group to approach this goal. >> >>Group issues >> >>I personally would like to see the group be initially open to anyone who >>would seek to help. >> >>Members of any country of origin, be allowed to join. >> >>I would set a minimum age of membership of 18 years or Collage enrolment. >> >>All members of the group would equally participate in 50 % of the award >>money, upon successful completion of the unit and disbursement of the funds. >> >>An additional 30% to be divided by vote of the membership, to those who >>have contributed the most. Myself excluded, as I seek to donate my end of >>the technology to the group. >> >>The remaining 20% of the award to be, set aside for funding this same >>group, in continuing Hydroxy technology research. Keep in mind that I can >>generate hydrogen and oxygen from stone, a refueling technology to be used >>on the moon or other planets would be my next proposed goal. >> >>My thoughts are that this forum is not the appropriate place for this >>eventual group, but perhaps Bill B. would be willing to sponsor another >>news group for this task. >> >>I would hope that something could be done using this medium of the Internet. >> >>Please take some time to think about this idea, but I would much like to >>hear your thoughts. >> >>TR Knudtson >> >> >> >> > > >Tall Ships >http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 29 15:09:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA29805; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:06:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:06:44 -0800 From: mindtech@nor.com.au Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981029092353.0070f0d4@pophost.nor.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@pophost.nor.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:23:53 +1100 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hodowanec Detector In-Reply-To: <199810280520.VAA11836@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"78RWO1.0.ZH7.3KFEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7359 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >There were also 2 letters about gravity waves in the August, 1986 issue. > Hodowanec also self-published some writings on his "rhysmonic cosmology". At one point, he was freely giving these away. And then there was his miniaturized version of the MRA, which he claimed was O/U and had been independently replicated. I don't see anything special about his detectors, other than using a standard cap for an antenna. If you're really serious, try a high dielectric variety coupled to an EEG-type amplifer. You can also buy purpose-made titanate sensors these days. Lots of filtering. But is it detecting scalars? From what Hodowanec describes as generators of same (even an ordinary LED), I wonder. Seems like he missed the vector cancellation thing altogether. Remember, the the cap, depending on its internal structure, is a directional sensor. In addition to the value, you also need to play around with the low pass filtering. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 29 15:54:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA16314; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:51:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:51:04 -0800 Message-ID: <001e01be0397$112169a0$66298e8b@plassy> From: "Plasmatic" To: Subject: Re: Hydroxy research Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:51:32 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA16185 Resent-Message-ID: <"D4e7_.0.q-3.dzFEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7360 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Too bad I'm too young, but I'd love to help ya anyway ;) I do have a question though. Maybe it didn't make it to the list, but I was wondering if you would know where to find out where to find any information on Hydroxy, particularily construction of Hy droxy producers and welders. I've looked all over, but keep running into other types of 'hydroxy' :) Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. -Plasmatic Plas@Dlcwest.Com -----Original Message----- From: trknute@earthlink.net To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: October 29, 1998 3:22 PM Subject: Re: Hydroxy research >Well Dennis, > >It looks like we are the only ones. :) > >All the best > >TR Knudtson > >Can you send me general information about yourself and how you might want >to help this effort? > >Private post may be better, but judgeing form the responce on this idea, we >may never get starte anyway. > >I have been for the last three days sending out copies of the idea to >others that I work with individualy and am getting the same sort of >responce. While many do not want to involve themselves in a collective >effort, they are quick to ask if I will still continue to work with them >privatly. > >Somthing I had hoped would not happen. > >Oh Well! > >All the best > >TR Knudtson > > > > > > > >At 03:54 AM 10/29/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Hi TR; >> >>You can count me in! >> >>Best Regards; >>Dennis C. Lee >> >> >> >>At 10:22 AM 10/28/98 -0800, you wrote: >>>Hydroxy, a collective effort. >>> >>>Dear All, >>> >>>I have been reviewing laterally thousands of posts on the Hydroxy >>>Technology. I know that many here have a Knudtson file. (smile) Let alone >>>those who we don't like to think about, that also listen to this news group. >>> >>>I am never more satisfied with technology, than I am with the development >>>of the internet. The speed and world wide accessibility that this medium >>>offers is amazing to me. In the blink of an eye I can send a message to >>>nearly anyone, anywhere in the world. To me this is fantastic, compared to >>>the previous use of phone or air-mail, or courier, when Brown I and others >>>worked in the early days of Hydroxy Technology. Here, we can send faxes, >>>documents, photos, posts and sounds and real time video images, back an >>>forth at will. >>> >>>I communicate with hundreds, of groups all over the world, who are doing >>>research in this technology. Some of them individuals like George Wiseman, >>>others forming small consortiums of participating members. In each case, I >>>try to answer each post honestly clearly and in a timely manner. I hope >>>that you can see that there is a lot of chance for replication and the need >>>to answer many of the same questions several times over. I have respected >>>the request of many here, who have asked me to respond to you in private, >>>and will continue to do so, but I just can't stop the feeling that we are >>>over looking to chance to enter into a collective effort using this >>>fantastic medium. In many of the threads here, I see this type of >>>communalism of openly shared information, without regard of accolades or >>>receiving credit, or worries over money concerns. To me, this is real >>>Science, the quest for an ever-increasing understanding of the universe. >>> >>>Yet, I do feel that in today's world, science often does not materialize, >>>until economic progress can be shown. The benefit of financial gain, in a >>>real and practical sense, means additional money for continued research. >>> >>>I have been offered a rare opportunity, that of a reward grant for the >>>demonstration of Hydroxy gas, as a welding technology for use in outer >space. >>> >>>In the near future, there is to be a push on, for the development of a >>>international space station. Needless to say, many answers of how to >>>construct such a thing, in zero need to be addressed. >>> >>>The interest in Hydroxy technologies for these applications, has come about >>>because of a number of factors. >>> >>>!) It burns in a complete vacuum. >>> >>>2) It is has proven safe over time, there are commercial Hydroxy welders >>>that now are more than 15 years old. >>> >>>3) The fuel for these units is water. Easy to transport to space and once >>>again, very safe. >>> >>>4) It will weld aluminum and other light materials in a total vacuum. >>> >>>The key lies in the fact that I hold the core technology that allows for >>>the operation of these units in zero gravity. A, no moving part, type of >>>control that then allows the units to be spun or rotated, forming the >>>inertial gravity replacement, of centrifugal force. >>> >>>My issue lies in whether those of you involved with me individually, would >>>like to form a group to approach this goal. >>> >>>Group issues >>> >>>I personally would like to see the group be initially open to anyone who >>>would seek to help. >>> >>>Members of any country of origin, be allowed to join. >>> >>>I would set a minimum age of membership of 18 years or Collage enrolment. >>> >>>All members of the group would equally participate in 50 % of the award >>>money, upon successful completion of the unit and disbursement of the >funds. >>> >>>An additional 30% to be divided by vote of the membership, to those who >>>have contributed the most. Myself excluded, as I seek to donate my end of >>>the technology to the group. >>> >>>The remaining 20% of the award to be, set aside for funding this same >>>group, in continuing Hydroxy technology research. Keep in mind that I can >>>generate hydrogen and oxygen from stone, a refueling technology to be used >>>on the moon or other planets would be my next proposed goal. >>> >>>My thoughts are that this forum is not the appropriate place for this >>>eventual group, but perhaps Bill B. would be willing to sponsor another >>>news group for this task. >>> >>>I would hope that something could be done using this medium of the Internet. >>> >>>Please take some time to think about this idea, but I would much like to >>>hear your thoughts. >>> >>>TR Knudtson >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>Tall Ships >>http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html >> >> >> > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 29 16:38:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA04421; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:36:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:36:47 -0800 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The CF answer? (was Re: A cheaper 3rd suggestion with an experiment protocol. Palladium: 29 isotope states, 6 stable.) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 00:36:33 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <363b0965.157277577@24.192.1.20> References: <1.5.4.32.19981029135422.00e5e5e0@popd.ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19981029135422.00e5e5e0@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Rucc3.0._41.UeGEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7361 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 29 Oct 1998 08:54:22 -0500, Dennis C. Lee wrote: [snip] >I have dibs on putting together the superconducting monatomic palladium >oversaturated magnetic field collapse triggered transmutation producing >weird particles source >AND the monatomic hydrogen recombination to diatomic >hydrogen producing excess energy source theorems as the basic nature of the >cold fusion process for 10/29/98! Nya-nya plplplplplplplplpl ;) Actually skeptics have been claiming for years that hydrogen recombination may be the source of the excess heat. Problem is there is far more excess heat in some cases than can possibly be accounted for by hydrogen recombination (or even combination with atmospheric oxygen which would yield even more heat). [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 29 17:27:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA08765; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:17:34 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:17:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981030011930.00e39260@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:19:30 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: The CF answer? (was Re: A cheaper 3rd suggestion with an experiment protocol. Palladium: 29 isotope states, 6 stable.) Resent-Message-ID: <"vJxCg3.0.Z82.KEHEs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7362 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi; What do they say is the heat produced by hydrogen recombination? On separation, the hydrogen atom electron cloud expands thus trapping ZPE. On recombination, the hydrogen atom electron cloud contracts releasing ZPE. 103 cal/gram mole dissociation energy 109,000 cal/gram mole recombination emission energy What energy values have you seen? Dennis At 12:36 AM 10/30/98 GMT, you wrote: >Actually skeptics have been claiming for years that hydrogen >recombination may be the source of the excess heat. >Problem is there is far more excess heat in some cases than can >possibly be accounted for by hydrogen recombination (or even >combination with atmospheric oxygen which would yield even more heat). Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 29 20:32:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA11822; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:29:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:29:41 -0800 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981029035744.008a73b0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 03:57:44 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydroxy research In-Reply-To: <001e01be0397$112169a0$66298e8b@plassy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Emo1-1.0.cu2.r2KEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7363 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Yes Specific to the design of the Hydroxy series cell, contact George Wesman, Do a "Yahoo" search on "Eagle Reasearch" to get to his site. TR Knudtson At 05:51 PM 10/29/98 -0600, you wrote: >Too bad I'm too young, but I'd love to help ya anyway ;) I do have a question though. Maybe it didn't make it to the list, but I was wondering if you would know where to find out where to find any information on Hydroxy, particularily construction of Hydroxy producers and welders. I've looked all over, but keep running into other types of 'hydroxy' :) Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. > >-Plasmatic >Plas@Dlcwest.Com >-----Original Message----- >From: trknute@earthlink.net >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Date: October 29, 1998 3:22 PM >Subject: Re: Hydroxy research > > >>Well Dennis, >> >>It looks like we are the only ones. :) >> >>All the best >> >>TR Knudtson >> >>Can you send me general information about yourself and how you might want >>to help this effort? >> >>Private post may be better, but judgeing form the responce on this idea, we >>may never get starte anyway. >> >>I have been for the last three days sending out copies of the idea to >>others that I work with individualy and am getting the same sort of >>responce. While many do not want to involve themselves in a collective >>effort, they are quick to ask if I will still continue to work with them >>privatly. >> >>Somthing I had hoped would not happen. >> >>Oh Well! >> >>All the best >> >>TR Knudtson >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>At 03:54 AM 10/29/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>Hi TR; >>> >>>You can count me in! >>> >>>Best Regards; >>>Dennis C. Lee >>> >>> >>> >>>At 10:22 AM 10/28/98 -0800, you wrote: >>>>Hydroxy, a collective effort. >>>> >>>>Dear All, >>>> >>>>I have been reviewing laterally thousands of posts on the Hydroxy >>>>Technology. I know that many here have a Knudtson file. (smile) Let alone >>>>those who we don't like to think about, that also listen to this news group. >>>> >>>>I am never more satisfied with technology, than I am with the development >>>>of the internet. The speed and world wide accessibility that this medium >>>>offers is amazing to me. In the blink of an eye I can send a message to >>>>nearly anyone, anywhere in the world. To me this is fantastic, compared to >>>>the previous use of phone or air-mail, or courier, when Brown I and others >>>>worked in the early days of Hydroxy Technology. Here, we can send faxes, >>>>documents, photos, posts and sounds and real time video images, back an >>>>forth at will. >>>> >>>>I communicate with hundreds, of groups all over the world, who are doing >>>>research in this technology. Some of them individuals like George Wiseman, >>>>others forming small consortiums of participating members. In each case, I >>>>try to answer each post honestly clearly and in a timely manner. I hope >>>>that you can see that there is a lot of chance for replication and the need >>>>to answer many of the same questions several times over. I have respected >>>>the request of many here, who have asked me to respond to you in private, >>>>and will continue to do so, but I just can't stop the feeling that we are >>>>over looking to chance to enter into a collective effort using this >>>>fantastic medium. In many of the threads here, I see this type of >>>>communalism of openly shared information, without regard of accolades or >>>>receiving credit, or worries over money concerns. To me, this is real >>>>Science, the quest for an ever-increasing understanding of the universe. >>>> >>>>Yet, I do feel that in today's world, science often does not materialize, >>>>until economic progress can be shown. The benefit of financial gain, in a >>>>real and practical sense, means additional money for continued research. >>>> >>>>I have been offered a rare opportunity, that of a reward grant for the >>>>demonstration of Hydroxy gas, as a welding technology for use in outer >>space. >>>> >>>>In the near future, there is to be a push on, for the development of a >>>>international space station. Needless to say, many answers of how to >>>>construct such a thing, in zero need to be addressed. >>>> >>>>The interest in Hydroxy technologies for these applications, has come about >>>>because of a number of factors. >>>> >>>>!) It burns in a complete vacuum. >>>> >>>>2) It is has proven safe over time, there are commercial Hydroxy welders >>>>that now are more than 15 years old. >>>> >>>>3) The fuel for these units is water. Easy to transport to space and once >>>>again, very safe. >>>> >>>>4) It will weld aluminum and other light materials in a total vacuum. >>>> >>>>The key lies in the fact that I hold the core technology that allows for >>>>the operation of these units in zero gravity. A, no moving part, type of >>>>control that then allows the units to be spun or rotated, forming the >>>>inertial gravity replacement, of centrifugal force. >>>> >>>>My issue lies in whether those of you involved with me individually, would >>>>like to form a group to approach this goal. >>>> >>>>Group issues >>>> >>>>I personally would like to see the group be initially open to anyone who >>>>would seek to help. >>>> >>>>Members of any country of origin, be allowed to join. >>>> >>>>I would set a minimum age of membership of 18 years or Collage enrolment. >>>> >>>>All members of the group would equally participate in 50 % of the award >>>>money, upon successful completion of the unit and disbursement of the >>funds. >>>> >>>>An additional 30% to be divided by vote of the membership, to those who >>>>have contributed the most. Myself excluded, as I seek to donate my end of >>>>the technology to the group. >>>> >>>>The remaining 20% of the award to be, set aside for funding this same >>>>group, in continuing Hydroxy technology research. Keep in mind that I can >>>>generate hydrogen and oxygen from stone, a refueling technology to be used >>>>on the moon or other planets would be my next proposed goal. >>>> >>>>My thoughts are that this forum is not the appropriate place for this >>>>eventual group, but perhaps Bill B. would be willing to sponsor another >>>>news group for this task. >>>> >>>>I would hope that something could be done using this medium of the Internet. >>>> >>>>Please take some time to think about this idea, but I would much like to >>>>hear your thoughts. >>>> >>>>TR Knudtson >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>Tall Ships >>>http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 29 20:38:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA17093; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:33:31 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:33:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36394338.177D5CF8@harti.com> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 05:40:24 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Sergey M.Godin" CC: Dieter Bauer , freenrg-l , Jean-Louis Naudin , Tim Vaughan , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: http://www.overunity.com/zaev updated References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eXmRy2.0.yA4.P6KEs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7364 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi All, I have updated my site with all the latest infos regarding the thermal to electrical energy converter. http://www.overunity.com/zaev Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 29 21:00:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA21852; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:57:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:57:48 -0800 From: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca Message-Id: <199810300457.XAA22287@romeo.its.uwo.ca> X-Sender: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:50:42 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, "Vanderhooft, Mike (Sudbury)" , "Kurush K Mistry" , mnryan@execulink.com, Harry.Willems@sympatico.ca, Fred Walter , bmcburne@npiec.on.ca Subject: Re: Splitting Water Cc: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider), whitman@brightok.net, mnorris@akron.infi.net, "John R. Kurczak" , trknute@earthlink.net In-Reply-To: <3635388e.3143790@mail.zip.com.au> References: <199810240029.UAA00364@surfergirl.spacey.net> <199810240029.UAA00364@surfergirl.spacey.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"VExOd.0.EL5.BTKEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7365 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com The following 25 page Horvath U.S. Patent 3,980,053 available on the IBM patent server: http://www.patents.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/3980053 Provides a very detailed, on demand, water splitting method. It seems to be based on Stanley Meyers work and describes in great detail cracking circuitry, steel nickle coated electrodes etc. Use of magnetism, resonance and hydrogen/oxygen filtering membranes are all incorporated. This is worth a study. So far it seems to be the most complete treatment, for building a system, on the subject that I have seen. I found this in the following paper on politics of energy, a must read. it refers to tons of other patents quite a few of these are available on the IBM patent server. BTW full ascii txt /pdf on many patents is available for free from the PatentMiner accessed from the IBM server. You have to sign up though. http://www.digitalnation.com/byronw/ Would love to get some feedback... FUEL SUPPLY APPARATUS FOR INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES Inventor: Stephen Horvath, St. Ives, Australia ABSTRACT A fuel supply apparatus generates hydrogen and oxygen by electrolysis of water. There is provided an electrolytic cell which has a circular anode surrounded by a cathode with a porous membrane therebetween. The anode is fluted and the cathode is slotted to provide anode and cathode areas of substantially equal surface area. A pulsed electrical current is provided between the anode and cathode for efficient generation of hydrogen and oxygen. The electrolytic cell is equipped with a float, which detects the level of electrolyte within the cell, and water is added to the cell as needed to replace the water lost through the electrolysis process. The hydrogen and oxygen are collected in chambers which are an integral part of the electrolytic cell, and these two gases are supplied to a mixing chamber where they are mixed in the ratio of two parts hydrogen to one part oxygen. This mixture of hydrogen and oxygen flows to another mixing chamber wherein it is mixed with air from the atmosphere. The system is disclosed as being installed in an automobile, and a dual control system, which is actuated by the automobile throttle, first meters the hydrogen and oxygen mixture into the chamber wherein it is combined with air and then meters the combined mixture into the automobile engine. The heat of combustion of a pure hydrogen and oxygen mixture is greater than that of a gasoline and air mixture of comparable volume, and air is therefore mixed with the hydrogen and oxygen to produce a composite mixture which has a heat of combustion approximating that of a normal gas-air mixture. This composite mixture of air, hydrogen and oxygen then can be supplied directly to a conventional internal combustion engine without overheating and without creation of a vacuum in the system. Chris Gupta At 09:02 AM 10/26/98 +0000, Alan Schneider wrote: >On Fri, 23 Oct 1998 20:30:35 -0400, "dwenbert" wrote: > >>David: > >>I'm working on developing a similar test setup. So far the most useful >>thing I've seen on any of the Meyer/Brown work has been the following short >>paper and its schematics. It gives the resonant frequencies used by Meyer >>for the high voltage, low current, high frequency pulsed DC required for >>the effect to operate, together with the materials and geometry of the >>construction. > >>Go Here: http://members.spree.com/aerp/free-energy/dan1.html > >If anyone's interested, I recently did a scan/ocr of the original >Danforth article - the diagrams in particular are *much* clearer >than the aerp site's copy. > >See: http://www.zip.com.au/~alansch/danforth/dan1.htm > >The original article promised a follow-up with actual test results. >AFAIK this never eventuated. >Neither have I ever heard of anyone actually building this system, >or for that matter, of *anyone* successfully reproducing Stan Meyer's >results. > >Does anyone on freenrg-l have knowledge of a successful replication >of Meyers, or Danforth's systems? > >Cheers, >Alan Schneider > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 29 21:07:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA23918; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:04:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:04:15 -0800 From: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca Message-Id: <199810300504.AAA23460@romeo.its.uwo.ca> X-Sender: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:57:21 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydroxy research In-Reply-To: <001e01be0397$112169a0$66298e8b@plassy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"MixK81.0.er5.EZKEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7366 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Look for patent 4,184,931, Jan. 1980 - Method of electrolytically generating hydrogen and oxygen for use in a torch or the like on the IBM patent server. Chris Gupta At 05:51 PM 10/29/98 -0600, you wrote: >Too bad I'm too young, but I'd love to help ya anyway ;) I do have a question though. Maybe it didn't make it >to the list, but I was wondering if you would know where to find out where to find any information on Hydroxy, >particularily construction of Hydroxy producers and welders. I've looked all over, but keep running into other types of 'hydroxy' :) Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. > >-Plasmatic >Plas@Dlcwest.Com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 29 21:48:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA03820; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:42:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:42:19 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981030054940.00e38b30@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 00:49:40 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, vortex-L@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: CIA? This is for you! Resent-Message-ID: <"2PEnF2.0.ax.w6LEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7367 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi; Some one just told me that CIA crawl all over these lists. Hey CIA people, this is for you. Do you have your spots all picked out in the underground cities? If not, your gonna be stuck up here on top just like the rest of us, if and when the poles tip! Even if you do have reservations, what are you going to do when you come topside and see everything dead and destroyed? It ain't going to be much fun then either. Will all of your family and friends get admission to the underground city? You can deny the possibility but that won't stop the truth of the matter. You will die just like the rest of us, or you will wish you were dead. Your fun and games will end up killing us all. Get your butts in gear and get us ANTIGRAVITY ICECUBE CUTTER/TRANSPORTS so we can start trimming the South Pole Icecap or you will die like dogs just as the rest of us will. Time is running out... If I die because of your stupidity, I will be so upset, I will find some way of coming back... :( Dennis C. Lee > > I'm really sick of this nonsense and > > appalled at the ignorance of elementary > > physics that allows it to propagate. > > NOTHING will twist the rotational axis of > > the earth perceptibly except collision > > with another heavenly object having > > enormous mass. > >Well, I'm afraid when you read this you're going to get even sicker. > >My elementary geophysics tells me that the the earth is very, very, nearly >a perfect sphere. The much talked about equatorial bulges or "oblate >spheroid" shape is extremely small compared with the size of the earth. > >Then, my elementary physics tells me that a perfect spinning sphere has >*NO* gyroscopic stability. Nada, none at all. If the earth were a perfect >sphere, after a few years a gang of fleas all farting in the same direction >could tilt the earth off its axis. Of course it's not quite a perfect >sphere. So how does that tiny equatorial bulge stack up against the ice >packs anyway? Is much of that equatorial bulge made up of seawater? I'd >really be interested in a good explanation of the physics of the stability >of a spinning *elastic* sphere (perhaps fluid filled, like a near-spherical >water balloon for instance). I'd think its centrifugal bulge would >contribute to stability as expected, but is it truly the same as a rigid >solid having a fixed equatorial bulge? How would such a fluid system react, >for instance, to a field which applied force to all the elements (molecules >or whatever) of the system all at once? The earth, even the solid rock, >might as well be considered a near-fluid when taken altogether as a planet. > >There may be other forces between the earth and sun, or even the other >planets, that loom large but unknown against the simple electrogravitic >(plain old gravity in straight radiated 'as in electrostatic' lines). >Obviously electrostatic forces aren't small, and even gravity itself might >have some glitches to it involving large spinning masses. I know the >magnetogravitic effect from such systems is thought to be vanishingly >small, but that might not be the whole story. Remember "Jove rules the >heavens", and there's physical evidence to back the claim (angular momentum >of the solar system). Would that be a clue? > >The ancients seemed terribly intersted in tracking the heavens, and >evidence indicates they experienced enormous relief and celebration when >observations showed that things were continuing to move in their expected >paths. Why this paranoia about celectial objects reappearing in their >proper places? Don't they always? Why would anyone think it could be >otherwise? Maybe they knew something we don't? Maybe they or their >ancestors had certain bad experiences in this regard? > >I'm not buying into any of this 5/5/2000 or polar shift stuff without any >good evidence either. But I'm not so sure I can dismiss all of it out of >hand without some good answers to some of these other questions. > Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 29 22:16:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA13155; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:14:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:14:53 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981030062202.00e55aa4@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:22:02 -0500 To: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, "Vanderhooft, Mike (Sudbury)" , "Kurush K Mistry" , mnryan@execulink.com, Harry.Willems@sympatico.ca, Fred Walter , bmcburne@npiec.on.ca From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Splitting Water Cc: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider), whitman@brightok.net, mnorris@akron.infi.net, "John R. Kurczak" , trknute@earthlink.net Resent-Message-ID: <"_1Sr53.0.PD3.TbLEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7368 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi; Unless you know how to determine mass chord values, it will be about impossible for you to build a successful design. A sure thing would be to find Irving Langmuir's atomic hydrogen paper written in 1912 describing LEAD AMALGAM cathodes that produce atomic hydrogen. Atomic hydrogen releases 3.75 times the BTU's by weight as ordinary hydrogen does in the combustion process. Dennis At 11:50 PM 10/29/98 -0500, mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca wrote: >The following 25 page Horvath U.S. Patent 3,980,053 available on the IBM >patent server: > > >http://www.patents.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/3980053 > >Provides a very detailed, on demand, water splitting method. It seems to be >based on Stanley Meyers work and describes in great detail cracking >circuitry, steel nickle coated electrodes etc. Use of magnetism, resonance >and hydrogen/oxygen filtering membranes are all incorporated. This is worth >a study. So far it seems to be the most complete treatment, for building a >system, on the subject that I have seen. > >I found this in the following paper on politics of energy, a must read. it >refers to tons of other patents quite a few of these are available on the >IBM patent server. BTW full ascii txt /pdf on many patents is available for >free from the PatentMiner accessed from the IBM server. You have to sign up >though. > > >http://www.digitalnation.com/byronw/ > >Would love to get some feedback... Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 29 22:55:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA21765; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:53:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:53:28 -0800 Message-ID: <03b501be03d1$a34af780$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: , , Subject: Re: CIA? This is for you! Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:50:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"bOrjv.0.jJ5.d9MEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7369 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Some one just told me that CIA crawl all over these lists. Damn you discovered our methods of research! Funny the MKULTRA program did not predict this, you know too much Dennis! Hey CIA people, >this is for you. Do you have your spots all picked out in the underground >cities? Yep, and you aren't invited! > If not, your gonna be stuck up here on top just like the rest of us, >if and when the poles tip! If?, we are COUNTING on it, easier way to get rid of the "problems" Even if you do have reservations, what are you >going to do when you come topside and see everything dead and destroyed? Laugh our asses off??! It >ain't going to be much fun then either. Will all of your family and friends >get admission to the underground city? Only if my friends are female, with red hair and pointy breasts! You can deny the possibility but that >won't stop the truth of the matter. You will die just like the rest of us, No, we have lots of food reserves, syspakco has really been cranking out the MRE's for us! And then our alien friends, the greys and the blues have everything else we need, have even slaughtered a lot of cows and stored the meat for us! (and that is not even counting all the mammoths they have frozen for us that will be thawed after your gone!) And you thought the cow deaths were meaningless = HAHA@! >or you will wish you were dead. Your fun and games will end up killing us YEAH! That is the point! Hello? Why do you think all the mystery, damn you discovered our plot! Our tricks were not good enough, no matter, we have all the food and water and cities and friends in high places, just need to abduct a few more farm girls for the breeding and we are set to go! >all. Get your butts in gear and get us ANTIGRAVITY ICECUBE CUTTER/TRANSPORTS NOT ON YOUR LIFE! HAH! >so we can start trimming the South Pole Icecap or you will die like dogs >just as the rest of us will. Time is running out... And we can't wait for the final countdown! TICK TICK BABY! >If I die because of your stupidity, I will be so upset, I will find some way >of coming back... :( OUR STUPIDITY! AU CONTRERE MON FRERE! We are the ones with the food and the underground cities, you are the one that is going to perish!~ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Oct 29 23:56:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA05557; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:53:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:53:07 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981030075939.00e13494@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 02:59:39 -0500 To: "Bill Wallace" , , , From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: CIA? This is for you! Resent-Message-ID: <"9LcTR1.0.fM1.Y1NEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7370 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi; You bum, you are ruining the effect. OK, Bill, what do you think of the icecap mass at the South Pole? I think the issue should be addressed. What do you think should be done? Dennis At 01:50 AM 10/30/98 -0500, Bill Wallace wrote: >>Some one just told me that CIA crawl all over these lists. > >Damn you discovered our methods of research! Funny the MKULTRA program did >not predict this, you know too much Dennis! Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 30 01:55:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA30401; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:53:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:53:32 -0800 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981029092135.008a1800@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:21:35 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CIA? This is for you! In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19981030075939.00e13494@popd.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"LDeV_3.0.vQ7.RoOEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7371 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear Dennis, You may think that your issues of CIA is a joke, but have you ever stopped to think, that the very structure of the internet was designed as a system for the communication of scientific researchers working on government projects, with out using fax or postal systems. I love my Government, and I fought in a difficult war do defend outdated concepts like freedom for all. But, I have to say, that they would have been mighty short sighted if they had not built into this system ways to check for illegal operation, or to be able to check for spying. I know that they have a file on me, but I choose to openly work with them. As I see not only the good of what my research can do, but also know that it can be used for evil. I hope to God that they keep an eye on those doing research in Hydroxy technology, as it has some dire sides to it, that only governments can deal with. In fact I nearly gave up my research because of these things. That is why I keep plugging away at the peaceful applications. And always will. Fact, if others really want to help here. Come up with a simple way to detect this gas when under pressure. If you want to make a million dollars, that is how! All the best TR Knudtson At 02:59 AM 10/30/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hi; > >You bum, you are ruining the effect. OK, Bill, what do you think of the >icecap mass at the South Pole? I think the issue should be addressed. What >do you think should be done? > >Dennis > > >At 01:50 AM 10/30/98 -0500, Bill Wallace wrote: >>>Some one just told me that CIA crawl all over these lists. >> >>Damn you discovered our methods of research! Funny the MKULTRA program did >>not predict this, you know too much Dennis! > > >Tall Ships >http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 30 03:29:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA14764; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 03:28:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 03:28:49 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981030215809.008d0840@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 21:58:09 +1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: The answer and web page updates. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"eLnRc2.0.Yc3.mBQEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7372 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com HI ALL The answer to what rises up when something falls on it. Some suggested the answer was a salmon swimming up a water fall This could be true but the correct answer is an egg. When you place a blown out empty egg shell on thread like an axle through the center and put it in flowing falling water stream it will rise upwards. I have since found out since the shape of the egg on an axle in a water flow also makes an excellent turbine design. I have made some addition to my web articles an in particular to the lord kelvin experiements with a design for an improved machine. I have several photo showing it working. Until next Geoff Geoff http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 30 08:01:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA20704; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 07:57:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 07:57:03 -0800 Message-ID: <3639E134.19E42E62@zippnet.net> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 07:54:28 -0800 From: pat weissleader Reply-To: lizardhaven@zippnet.net Organization: lizardhaven X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydroxy research References: <001e01be0397$112169a0$66298e8b@plassy> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3GL0u.0.Q35.E7UEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7373 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com the problem, Plasmatic, is that the people who can build such devices distain any plan that produces fairly small scale, units, within the price range of ordinay people to buy, and usable for things ordinary people need to do. 5 years ago yul brown had units available, but they were made in asia and i suppose the patents bought up by some corporation that had no real interest in the needs of ordinary people. the inventors can not build and sell units or they get the government harassment-george wiseman said if he sold anything other than plans (such as units or parts) his mail in both canada and the us stopped getting delivered. anyne who knows how to build from the plans, is an experimentor and has no interest in production of units for sale. because every unit in use is individualy built and not identical to any other unit, there is no certainty that any plan will do just what is expected-no standard to go by for checking. when experimentors want to get some money back for their efforts-as they rightly sholud do-and get into conracts and manufacturing concerns similar to 'mainsteam' stuff, it always gets bogged down and doesn't happen. i suspect that the way government or large corporations control this kind of invention is to lie in wait for them to look into manufacture...i have been trying for years to get someone, anyone to build me a unit-i have offered some modest funding up front, but no one who can build them is interested in doing so for people like you and me. -- Patricia Weissleader at Lizardhaven Ranch 'where the critter meets the glitter' From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 30 09:29:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA15474; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:27:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:27:35 -0800 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981030215809.008d0840@main.murray.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 12:27:23 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: The answer and web page updates. Resent-Message-ID: <"OVVTD3.0.dn3.6SVEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7374 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Geoff, The link for Kelvin is broken. Also, is there some way to stop all those Geocities ads? >HI ALL > The answer to what rises up when something falls on it. > >Some suggested the answer was a salmon swimming up a water fall >This could be true but the correct answer is an egg. > >When you place a blown out empty egg shell on thread like an axle through >the center and put it in flowing falling water stream it will rise upwards. >I have since found out since the shape of the egg on an axle in a water >flow also makes an excellent turbine design. > >I have made some addition to my web articles an in particular to the lord >kelvin experiements with a design for an improved machine. >I have several photo showing it working. >Until next Geoff > > > > >Geoff > >http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 >Solaris searching for natures energy sources. > >Geoff Egel >18 Sturt Street >Loxton 5333 >South Australia >Australia > >Phone (08) (8584 5201) >Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time >(Monday - Saturday) >Central Australian time >others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. > >Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 30 13:05:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA29196; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:00:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:00:23 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <2f48e727.363a2888@aol.com> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:58:48 EST To: energy21@listbot.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Site update, this might do it! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Resent-Message-ID: <"xS3fa3.0.587.cZYEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7375 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Update at: HLafonte's Home Page http://members.aol.com/HLafonte/lafonteresearchsite1web.html Operational description ready tomorrow, try and figure it out in the mean time! Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 30 13:58:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA16797; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:54:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:54:26 -0800 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981029174120.00844b80@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:41:20 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydroxy research Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Q0qul3.0.N64.IMZEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7377 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:20:56 -0800 >To: lizardhaven@zippnet.net >From: trknute@earthlink.net >Subject: Re: Hydroxy research >In-Reply-To: <3639E134.19E42E62@zippnet.net> >References: <001e01be0397$112169a0$66298e8b@plassy> > >Dear Pat > >I worked with Brown on the development of the Australian units in the 80s, that I feel are far superior to the Norinco units, in that the were built simple and rugged. They were costing us about $900 to make and there was developing a competing market in the pacific rim, of copycat manufacturers, who were making them much cheaper. > >The Decision to go to China was 2 fold. > >1) To spread the technology to China as with this technological base 1.2 Billion Chinese people would not have to go through the intense polluting period that other industrializing nations had if they could make even steels using this process. Much of explanation is just shouting in the wind as many even here on this progressive site, regard this technology as just some Toy type of advance at best. > >2) We knew the habit of the western world buying up technologies and shelving them until they had no other choice but to let them out. When I was a boy, I saw demonstration of a car using the Poge carburetor, and getting some 40 miles to the gallon, he was not the only one. We Knew that China had no such tremendously vested interests that could shelve this technology, and the public need would force the fostering this technology through need. Also we knew that China has been the originator of nearly every major science on earth and This was our way to insure that they were not left behind and to in our way say thank you, for all that they had given us. > >Gee! That is probably more that 2 reasons. > >In bringing Brown to the US in 90, I had hoped that the us would not act in this way, much to my disappointment it was the case. Even after demonstrating the technology for the Lawrence Livermore labs, The excited scientists left our meeting with the greatest enthusiasm claiming this the most important discovery since the atomic age, There quote not mine, only to turn sour over night, phoning later to explain that they had not much extra time to spend on such things. > >We demonstrated for the D.O.D., the simply asked us to stop, with out saying why. They Navy called back, saying that we should not continue as this technology could jeopardize National Defense. A myriad of universities, Public officials and foreign governments came to demonstrations over the next three years, all to no avail. Many blamed Brown and his funny ways for these failures, and yes he could be a bastard. However I can not tell you of the faces of many of the true experts who came to see this, as they looked over the units to insure they were not fake. The break through often came when we let them hold the flame, and perform the tests them selves. One scientist who got that funny smile on his face after doing a few tests, left the bench and scribbled a list and gave it to his driver. In a few hours the driver returned with samples of tin, gold ore, iron ore, Tungsten ore, brass, steels, lime, lead, zinc, copper, ceramics of numerous types, and like a child he played with these things for many hours, shouting every so many minutes like a giddy school girl. > >We spent about 3 years in a demonstration mode, all to no avail. > >Brown resisted the move to China for only one main reason, Communism. Weather or not you can understand, nearly all of his family had been killed by a repressive communistic regime in Bulgaria in the early 50s. He himself had been interned in a re-education camp and tortured, I have seen the scars. I know through ours of discussions that he had a nearly overpowering fear of this type of government. He called communism, the "lands of people who disappear". > >In time he did listen to reason, that times had changed, and I feel it was his love of all people and science that allowed him to make the decision to go, let alone the disappointments here in the US. > >Also early on it was the expressed purpose of building the simple application of the welder, to see that this technology was eventually in every country on earth. Before his death, that was nearly a reality. > >All in all the other reason for going to China was to produce a full line of welders that could not be manufactured any cheaper anywhere else in the world, thus eliminating anyone who would seek to copy these units, economically. I participated in obtaining bids from Mexico, Canada, and the US and none of them even came close to the proposals submitted by China. Our dream was a unit of sound quality that could be sold 1/3rd cheaper than any other unit. Seeking to export eventually to Africa. > >These units are not a welder, they are the core of a revolutionary technology. Ten years from now you will see this technology flowing out of China in the form of new materials, cheaper and better steels, ceramics that can withstand extreme temperatures, and as I point out new application technologies that even can deal with atomic waste. > >I really am fed up with the limited scope of thinking here. This is a general criticism so please do not anyone take it to heart. But my God, when you have the ability to hold the temperature of the sun in your hand do you not think that you might be able to think of something to use it for? Not to mention that it is non polluting and is easily made from clean, abundant solar energy? > >These are not welders, it is a technology that you can use like a lens, to focus energy to nearly any task, even welding in outer space. > >I relate it to the development of electricity, not much more than sparks and tingling sensations in the 1700s, and look what we do with it now. Also if you look at the issue of Ben Franklin being one of the pioneers, it was to be another century or so before the world did not look at you with a raised eyebrow, if you said you were experimenting with electricity. > >I may never go to space, but I am assured that our children will be using this technology there, and that one of my machines will be there. > >Let me apologize in advance for this post, what you are hearing here is years of frustration, not any criticism of any individual. > >Sorry > >TR Knudtson > > > > > >At 07:54 AM 10/30/98 -0800, you wrote: >>the problem, Plasmatic, is that the people who can build such devices >>distain any plan that produces fairly small scale, units, within the >>price range of ordinay people to buy, and usable for things ordinary >>people need to do. 5 years ago yul brown had units available, but they >>were made in asia and i suppose the patents bought up by some >>corporation that had no real interest in the needs of ordinary people. >>the inventors can not build and sell units or they get the government >>harassment-george wiseman said if he sold anything other than plans >>(such as units or parts) his mail in both canada and the us stopped >>getting delivered. anyne who knows how to build from the plans, is an >>experimentor and has no interest in production of units for sale. >>because every unit in use is individualy built and not identical to any >>other unit, there is no certainty that any plan will do just what is >>expected-no standard to go by for checking. >>when experimentors want to get some money back for their efforts-as they >>rightly sholud do-and get into conracts and manufacturing concerns >>similar to 'mainsteam' stuff, it always gets bogged down and doesn't >>happen. i suspect that the way government or large corporations control >>this kind of invention is to lie in wait for them to look into >>manufacture...i have been trying for years to get someone, anyone to >>build me a unit-i have offered some modest funding up front, but no one >>who can build them is interested in doing so for people like you and me. >> >>-- >>Patricia Weissleader at Lizardhaven Ranch >>'where the critter meets the glitter' >> >> >> >> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 30 14:01:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA16648; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:53:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:53:55 -0800 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981029174049.007cfa10@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:40:49 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: (Completely Off Topic) Only Partly Hydroxy research Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ybXkU3.0.244.pLZEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7376 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:39:50 -0800 >To: Stuart Rae >From: trknute@earthlink.net >Subject: Re: (Completely Off Topic) Only Partly Hydroxy research >In-Reply-To: <4728C469.6AAF@mlb.planet.gen.nz> >References: <3.0.5.32.19981028204130.008a2220@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19981029113834.008a9220@earthlink.net> > >Well the Idea of a think tank type news group is exactly what I had in mind. > >If you go to the sites on Browns gas you will see counters in the millions. I know the interest is there, I just would hope that this idea could focus and share information. > >The thing that I was wanting to offer to those who would involve themselves directly in the research is compleate discloser of all reports and documentation. This may be different than the news group. > >If this project goes on to develop a colective product, a finla granting of patent or such, I would see it as a posestion of the group, and ownership then be of an international distrabution, to each contributing member. > >Oh hell!, I just want to cut down on my e-mail, and have one place for people to come to get as much as they can, in the way of starting in this technology, and free of charge. That does not mean that we have to let out specifics on a given design that the group may be working on. > >I have always been an advocate that the future of this technowlogy does not lie in making units but rather in the applications of this gas > > > > > >At 10:07 AM 10/31/07 -0800, you wrote: >>Hello again TR, >> >>> >>> Grand lad!!!! >>> >>> Does this mean you are in??? >>> >> >>Yes. I'd be delighted to contribute in some small way if I can. >> >>I'm not talking about a share in any 'award money' etc., for development that >>you mentioned. No, I don't want to get involved in that at all. >> >>What I would like, is to contribute as a member of any "think tank", and >>perhaps carry out any small experimental investigations etc., that might >>assist in any way. My reward would be to learn and therefore 'understand', >>and hopefully see such technology utilized for the planet's benefit. >> >>If you would be happy with my very limited abilities in this I would >>definitely like to "be in". >> >>Regards, >> >>Stuart Rae >> >> >> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 30 14:13:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA25184; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:10:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:10:06 -0800 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981029175704.008b5b40@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:57:04 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Hydroxy research Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"WIN7w.0.L96.zaZEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7378 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear Stuart, Well the Idea of a "think tank" type news group is exactly what I had in mind. If you go to the sites on Browns' gas you will see counters in the millions. I know the interest is there, I just would hope that this idea could focus and share information. The thing that I am wanting to offer to those who would involve themselves directly in the research, is complete disclosure of all reports and documentation. This may be different than the news group. If this project goes on to develop a collective product, a final granting of patent or such, I would see it as a possession of the group, and ownership then be of an international distribution, to each contributing member. Oh hell!, I just want to cut down on my e-mail, and have one place for people to come to get as much as they can, in the way of starting in this technology, and free of charge. That does not mean that we have to let out specifics on a given design that the group may be working on. I have always been an advocate that the future of this technology does not lie in making units, but rather in the applications of this gas. TR Knudtson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 30 14:17:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA25736; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:11:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:11:02 -0800 Message-ID: <363A3CEE.18C49BD1@harti.com> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 23:25:50 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, trknute@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Hydroxy research References: <3.0.5.32.19981029174120.00844b80@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_9Tmz3.0.2I6.rbZEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7379 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com trknute@earthlink.net wrote: > > >Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:20:56 -0800 > >To: lizardhaven@zippnet.net > >From: trknute@earthlink.net > >Subject: Re: Hydroxy research > >In-Reply-To: <3639E134.19E42E62@zippnet.net> > >References: <001e01be0397$112169a0$66298e8b@plassy> > > > >Dear Pat > > > >I worked with Brown on the development of the Australian units in the 80s, > that I feel are far superior to the Norinco units, in that the were built > simple and rugged. They were costing us about $900 to make and there was > developing a competing market in the pacific rim, of copycat manufacturers, > who were making them much cheaper. > > > >The Decision to go to China was 2 fold. > > > >1) To spread the technology to China as with this technological base 1.2 > Billion Chinese people would not have to go through the intense polluting > period that other industrializing nations had if they could make even > steels using this process. Much of explanation is just shouting in the wind > as many even here on this progressive site, regard this technology as just > some Toy type of advance at best. ..snip... Hi, if you have the knowledge of this technology and you think it is so good, why don´t you get yourself a free web site at geocities.com or xoom.com and publish it ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 30 14:34:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA01299; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:25:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:25:00 -0800 Message-ID: <363A4044.31C27B7A@harti.com> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 23:40:04 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: problems to access overunity.com.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"o460B2.0.DK.yoZEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7380 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi, my ISP seems to have some trouble with their DNS setup. If anybody wants to access overunity.com please go with this IP link: http://168.144.2.41/over.htm in this moment. Thanks ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 30 14:35:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA05129; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:32:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:32:16 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981030223845.00dfc888@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:38:45 -0500 To: leep systems From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Planetary Gyroscopic Balance Idiocy - NOT! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Alan.CHEAH@adecco.com, alex@frolov.spb.ru, ahannan@MIT.EDU, deadnuts@deadnuts.com, apple pie , lupem@world.std.com, bcarter@igc.apc.com, dbishop@beaconres.com, billb@eskimo.com, wrick@ingr.com, bso@acm.org, blau@bluerock.com, bgh@wtn.ionics.com, bruce.pardoe@autodesk.com, byrun_fox@mindlink.bc.ca, claudeg@world.std.com, DaleSVP@ipa.net, danyork@iadfw.net, dtassen@c-zone.net, sweetser@world.std.com, clsmith@darwin.bu.edu, ccantor@sequenom.com, 76753.3551@CompuServe.COM, eben@ergeng.com, ehill@world.std.com, ejp@world.std.com, wordpros@inforamp.net, moy@ziplink.net, gjcheah@guybutler.com, wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu, hic@world.std.com, ives@ccs.neu.edu Resent-Message-ID: <"HBD4u1.0.yF1.lvZEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7381 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi; At 10:12 AM 10/30/98 -0500, leep systems wrote: >Dennis-- > >Like any other iceberg, a dislodged icecap would sort of drift around, >albeit in a somewhat deeper ocean. > >Yes. Sorry to say you do not understand basic physics and would profit >from a freshman mechanics text. Other heavenly bodies can have no effect >on the rotational axis of the earth. A short discussion of plate >tectonics would be very helpful re mammoths and icecaps. I'm sure Encarta >covers it well enough. > >It's very distressing to me to believe that a technically sophisticated >person such as you can be so totally unaware of the concepts of physical >science (natural philosophy?). I guess science and technology are more >different than I had thought. OK, I believe that I've found advanced physics ideas that over ride more basic physics principals under certain conditions. What about Einstein's analysis of the icecap issue? Is this a lie that Einstein looked at the problem? This is from the preface chapter of '5/5/2000 ...'. > Smithsonian Magazine, August 1993, states "every 7,000 years" the >weight of ice turns the rock under it into a toothpaste consistency >providing lubrication and "When this happens, the entire ice sheet >over Hudson Bay would slide out into the North Atlantic." Should >that event happen today, the resulting tidal wave would be >approximately three hundred feet high when it hit New York City. > Then, research by Drs. Barclay Kamb and Hermann Engelhardt at >Caltech, in Pasadena, revealed a layer of goo also comprised of >water-saturated pulverized rock under the ice at the South Pole. >Dr. Engelhardt told me this mixture "has the consistency of >toothpaste." Now, neither polar ice sheet is solidly anchored to >the underlying strata and both are, at present, resting on a >lubricating mixture. It is known that a viscous material will >yield easily to a comparatively slight pressure exerted over time. > If a gentle tug or push is exerted horizontally on the earth to >shove it in a given direction on 5/5/2000, then the reader will >find Drs. Hapgood and Einsteins' research, presented in this book, >rather chilling. Einstein knew the rock under the ice would be >pulverized forty years ago! In January 1955, he discussed with >Hapgood the application of a principle by which the tangential >stress proceeding from the icecap was greatly magnified to the >point that it would someday pulverize the rock under the icecap. >A stress that Einstein wrote, "will, when it has reached a certain >point, produce a movement of the earth's crust over the rest of the >earth's body, and this will displace the polar regions toward the >equator." > And what about this message from a reader? > > I'm really sick of this nonsense and > > appalled at the ignorance of elementary > > physics that allows it to propagate. > > NOTHING will twist the rotational axis of > > the earth perceptibly except collision > > with another heavenly object having > > enormous mass. > >Well, I'm afraid when you read this you're going to get even sicker. > >My elementary geophysics tells me that the the earth is very, very, nearly >a perfect sphere. The much talked about equatorial bulges or "oblate >spheroid" shape is extremely small compared with the size of the earth. > >Then, my elementary physics tells me that a perfect spinning sphere has >*NO* gyroscopic stability. Nada, none at all. If the earth were a perfect >sphere, after a few years a gang of fleas all farting in the same direction >could tilt the earth off its axis. Of course it's not quite a perfect >sphere. So how does that tiny equatorial bulge stack up against the ice >packs anyway? Is much of that equatorial bulge made up of seawater? I'd >really be interested in a good explanation of the physics of the stability >of a spinning *elastic* sphere (perhaps fluid filled, like a near-spherical >water balloon for instance). I'd think its centrifugal bulge would >contribute to stability as expected, but is it truly the same as a rigid >solid having a fixed equatorial bulge? How would such a fluid system react, >for instance, to a field which applied force to all the elements (molecules >or whatever) of the system all at once? The earth, even the solid rock, >might as well be considered a near-fluid when taken altogether as a planet. > >There may be other forces between the earth and sun, or even the other >planets, that loom large but unknown against the simple electrogravitic >(plain old gravity in straight radiated 'as in electrostatic' lines). >Obviously electrostatic forces aren't small, and even gravity itself might >have some glitches to it involving large spinning masses. I know the >magnetogravitic effect from such systems is thought to be vanishingly >small, but that might not be the whole story. Remember "Jove rules the >heavens", and there's physical evidence to back the claim (angular momentum >of the solar system). Would that be a clue? > >The ancients seemed terribly intersted in tracking the heavens, and >evidence indicates they experienced enormous relief and celebration when >observations showed that things were continuing to move in their expected >paths. Why this paranoia about celectial objects reappearing in their >proper places? Don't they always? Why would anyone think it could be >otherwise? Maybe they knew something we don't? Maybe they or their >ancestors had certain bad experiences in this regard? > >I'm not buying into any of this 5/5/2000 or polar shift stuff without any >good evidence either. But I'm not so sure I can dismiss all of it out of >hand without some good answers to some of these other questions. > Would it do any harm to request the government to release top secret antigravity technology so we can keep the icecap trimmed? >P.S. Not making anything, but have some stuff. Suggest Veridith get in >touch. E. I'll let V know. BTW are you still in touch with Nick? Is he still coding tracker drivers? We have a few martial arts masters here who would like to motion capture their forms and katas for animation and VR. Best Regards; Dennis Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 30 15:49:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA30064; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:42:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:42:38 -0800 Message-ID: <002601be045e$6fdc5460$9037a8cf@dwenbert.spacey.net> Reply-To: "dwenbert" From: "dwenbert" To: , Subject: Re: Hydroxy research Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 18:38:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"tsCee.0.cL7.kxaEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7382 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >the problem, Plasmatic, is that the people who can build such devices >distain any plan that produces fairly small scale, units, within the >price range of ordinay people to buy, and usable for things ordinary >people need to do. Right.....They all seem to be bumbling around like Newman, not getting anything acomplished. If these people are this inept at business, they can't be so all-fired brilliant at anything else. People skills are not THAT remote from other forms of abstract reasoning. > 5 years ago yul brown had units available, but they >were made in asia and i suppose the patents bought up by some >corporation that had no real interest in the needs of ordinary people. Apparently, Yul Brown's stuff is now controlled by some scam called Better World Technologies, which is one of those 'holier-than-thou' Christian scams, rather than a real company to produce and market the devices. If this is in error, someone please correct me, because Brown's own website has evidently disappeared since his death, and his actual company doesn't seem to exist any longer, as far as I can find on the web. Before his death, his site maintained warnings against people claiming to have rights to his technologies, who in fact did not. I don't know how BWT fits in in this regard. Does anyone know who Yul Brown's patent attorney was? or Stan Meyer's for that matter? >the inventors can not build and sell units or they get the government >harassment.-george wiseman said if he sold anything other than plans >(such as units or parts) his mail in both canada and the us stopped >getting delivered. There is too much of this kind of thing being reported for it to be real. If the government/conspiracy was THAT present and powerful, they'd tip their hand in too many ways; too many people would be in on it for it to remain clandestine/covert operations. > anyne who knows how to build from the plans, is an >experimentor and has no interest in production of units for sale. >because every unit in use is individualy built and not identical to any >other unit, there is no certainty that any plan will do just what is >expected-no standard to go by for checking. That's also why most of us won't go shell out money for 'plans'; ANYONE can sell 'plans' for anything - I could generate 'plans' for anything you wanted, doesn't mean they'd work. Real inventors sell machines, not plans. >when experimentors want to get some money back for their efforts-as they >rightly sholud do-and get into conracts and manufacturing concerns >similar to 'mainsteam' stuff, it always gets bogged down and doesn't >happen. i suspect that the way government or large corporations control >this kind of invention is to lie in wait for them to look into >manufacture.. There are tens of thousands of small independent manufacturers in North America with whom any inventor could negotiate, in secret, to build almost anything. Parts could be made at several different shops, each of which is unidentifiable by itself, and where no one but the inventor can tell what the finished product is supposed to be, or where its assembled. So, in short, the government has no effective means of making sure free energy devices don't get built. Only the incompetence of the people involved, which I believe we greatly underestimate. .i have been trying for years to get someone, anyone to >build me a unit-i have offered some modest funding up front, but no one >who can build them is interested in doing so for people like you and me. As eager as I am to see F/E and overunity technology, I am beginning to believe my physicist friends who tell me that what you just said is the best proof there is that none of this is real.......The sheer absence of 'product' anywhere, after more than a century of false starts, by hundreds of people, is de facto evidence that it doesn't work, can't be done, there's nothing to it, etc., etc. I have also offered to buy/pay to build these kinds of devices; to buy early prototypes, to hire the researchers and give them a budget to work with..........So far, all anyone has come up with is bullshit. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 30 16:19:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA09660; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 16:15:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 16:15:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 16:15:27 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: A Hydroxy list server... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981028102227.008a1100@earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"l29B61.0.sM2.YQbEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7383 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 28 Oct 1998 trknute@earthlink.net wrote: > Hydroxy, a collective effort. > My thoughts are that this forum is not the appropriate place for this > eventual group, but perhaps Bill B. would be willing to sponsor another > news group for this task. Try these: http://www.listbot.com http://www.egroups.com http://www.onelist.com/ I'm a bit over-extended, internet wise. However, the above three companies offer free listserver services (free, but with bits of advertizing on the list's messages.) Have freenrg-L people used these services before? Is any one of them more reliable than the others? Downtime and missing messages are a problem on eskimo.com. If I were looking for a listserver provider, I would want one which can tolerate large traffic without delays, lost postings, etc. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 30 21:11:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA03688; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 21:09:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 21:09:40 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981031051652.00e1d1e4@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 00:16:52 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: CIA? This is for you! Resent-Message-ID: <"uEsH43.0.Uv.KkfEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7384 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi; At 09:21 AM 10/29/98 -0800, you wrote: >You may think that your issues of CIA is a joke, but have you ever stopped >to think, that the very structure of the internet was designed as a system >for the communication of scientific researchers working on government >projects, with out using fax or postal systems. > >I love my Government, and I fought in a difficult war do defend outdated >concepts like freedom for all. But, I have to say, that they would have >been mighty short sighted if they had not built into this system ways to >check for illegal operation, or to be able to check for spying. I know they have a purpose to serve. I think the possibility exists that proper respect for citizens is the least of concern. Reasons to maintain confidentiality in the past, which were probably questionable as far as the greater good is concerned, are less applicable and possibly against the citizen's interest as time passes. I question their honor and I don't think they would step foward to do the right thing in the name of the greater good by their own initiative. >I know that they have a file on me, but I choose to openly work with them. >As I see not only the good of what my research can do, but also know that >it can be used for evil. Meyer supposedly worked alot of government projects. Did you know his background or what happened? >I hope to God that they keep an eye on those doing research in Hydroxy >technology, as it has some dire sides to it, that only governments can deal >with. In fact I nearly gave up my research because of these things. I just want to do something about the icecap or know respectable reasons of why not. If higher levels of technology were allowed natural evolution in the past 100 years or so, and established proper respect to use it properly, we wouldn't have the global warming or icecap issue be a serious problem. They were worried that the technology would get out of control. OK they stop civilian access and we have problems now. I have to at least ask for their help. I think their plan is to just hide if catastophy happens. This is not responsible conduct. >That is why I keep plugging away at the peaceful applications. And always >will. Me too. >Fact, if others really want to help here. Come up with a simple way to >detect this gas when under pressure. Could you further define what you mean here? Dennis Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 30 21:56:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA12457; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 21:52:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 21:52:11 -0800 Message-ID: <363ACD05.4B2C@tiac.net> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 00:40:37 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CIA? This is for you! References: <03b501be03d1$a34af780$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ru6Bh1.0.Z23.AMgEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7385 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill Wallace wrote: > > >Some one just told me that CIA crawl all over these lists. > > Damn you discovered our methods of research! Funny the MKULTRA program did > not predict this, you know too much Dennis! Ahh, Bill, I'll have to report this to the regional office you know. > Hey CIA people, > >this is for you. Do you have your spots all picked out in the underground > >cities? > > Yep, and you aren't invited! Well, you HAD one Bill, oh what the heck, what will it matter if your cover is blown after the poles shift anyway? > > If not, your gonna be stuck up here on top just like the rest of us, > >if and when the poles tip! > > If?, we are COUNTING on it, easier way to get rid of the "problems" Yep, thats just natures way of cleaning house. It happens. > Even if you do have reservations, what are you > >going to do when you come topside and see everything dead and destroyed? > > Laugh our asses off??! Now thats a bit insensitive Bill, your not supposed to give out the master plan. Maybe will should sub-let your bunk after all. > It > >ain't going to be much fun then either. Will all of your family and friends > >get admission to the underground city? > > Only if my friends are female, with red hair and pointy breasts! Just the supermodels. Thats the plan, a good looking, paranoid generation to repopulate the new Earth. Geez, now here I go spilling the beans! > You can deny the possibility but that > >won't stop the truth of the matter. You will die just like the rest of us, > > No, we have lots of food reserves, syspakco has really been cranking out the > MRE's for us! And then our alien friends, the greys and the blues have > everything else we need, have even slaughtered a lot of cows and stored the > meat for us! > (and that is not even counting all the mammoths they have frozen for us that > will be thawed after your gone!) And you thought the cow deaths were > meaningless = HAHA@! No Bill, he is quite correct, we will die too. Only much later. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 30 22:10:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA20068; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 22:08:32 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 22:08:32 -0800 (PST) From: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca Message-Id: <199810310600.BAA29992@juliet.its.uwo.ca> X-Sender: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 00:46:52 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydroxy research Cc: "dwenbert" , trknute@earthlink.net, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, Stefan Hartmann In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981029175704.008b5b40@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"uztwI2.0.Uv4.UbgEs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7386 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 05:57 PM 10/29/98 -0800, trknute@earthlink.net wrote: [snip] >could focus and share information. > TR Knudtson, If you want to share the info why are you beating around the bush? Just put it in the public domain! Frankly I am getting a bit tired of these teases that people in the know and/or with hidden agendas keep badgering various lists with.... >The thing that I am wanting to offer to those who would involve themselves >directly in the research, is complete disclosure of all reports and >documentation. This may be different than the news group. > >If this project goes on to develop a collective product, a final granting >of patent or such, I would see it as a possession of the group, and >ownership then be of an international distribution, to each contributing >member. Come on now how are you going to coordinate all this? Typical wishful thinking, totalling impractical... >In bringing Brown to the US in 90, I had hoped that the us would not act >in this way, much to my disappointment it was the case. Even after >demonstrating the technology for the Lawrence Livermore labs, The excited >scientists left our meeting with the greatest enthusiasm claiming this the >most important discovery since the atomic age, There quote not mine, only >to turn sour over night, phoning later to explain that they had not much >extra time to spend on such things. What would you expect these people to do?? Go around praising the inventors on how great the invention is and then build and market it for them to boot? Have you inventors never heard of the NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome? For them to be as enthusiastic as the inventors it would also have to be their idea at least partially - its called buy in... sorry life is just that way... I agree with Dwenbert... "They all seem to be bumbling around like Newman, not getting anything accomplished. If these people are this inept at business, they can't be so all-fired brilliant at anything else. People skills are not THAT remote from other forms of abstract reasoning." If only the inventors had spent half the time and money marketing their invention instead of trying to convince disinterested parties something may have come of it..... > >Oh hell!, I just want to cut down on my e-mail, and have one place for >people to come to get as much as they can, in the way of starting in this >technology, and free of charge. That does not mean that we have to let out >specifics on a given design that the group may be working on. Free of charge? not let out specifics? Either its public domain or its not. Really this is just more rubbish! Less malarkey please! >I have always been an advocate that the future of this technology does not >lie in making units, but rather in the applications of this gas. > Well stop hoarding the info. Let it out in the public domain and pls don't give us all the tiresome diatribe on non disclosure agreements and how the inventors have spent all their lifes on their inventions etc. and have every right for a 'ransom' for their info etc. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS sorry for the catch but that's life and I can tell you 'information wants to be free' and sooner or later we will have the info. So if you want to make a difference do it sooner... as it may be very later.. as in scheme of things (nature) time is irrelevant. On a positive note I have learned a lot from your posts and its a real pity that this is turning out be so unnecessarily complex... If we had more info we all could learn/dialogue with a lot more substance and accelerate this technology, While we both seem to want the same thing, going in circles is just not going to do it. Sad Chris Gupta >TR Knudtson > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Oct 30 22:42:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA26306; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 22:41:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 22:41:45 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981031064911.00e34c60@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 01:49:11 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: CIA? This is for you! Resent-Message-ID: <"_LuaG1.0.yQ6.e4hEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7387 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi; At 12:40 AM 10/31/98 -0800, you wrote: >Bill Wallace wrote: >> >> >Some one just told me that CIA crawl all over these lists. >> >> Damn you discovered our methods of research! Funny the MKULTRA program did >> not predict this, you know too much Dennis! > >Ahh, Bill, I'll have to report this to the regional office you know. Bob and Bill, how about putting that high powered witty energy into seriously looking into this issue. Can we say, constructive solution to fix the problem? Unfortunately, laughing isn't going to do anything but make me believe that you are as much the fool as you think of me. You are probably right though. They will just laugh this off like you guys, and run into shelters if and when the results of their protecting us from ourselves becomes reality as current conditions predict. What's the problem? You think there is no icecap problem? You think trimming the icecap is useless? You think the government wouldn't risk everything unnecessarily just to keep appearances up and status quo maintained? You think they wouldn't hide and leave us to fend for ourselves? Positive energy unit plus negative energy unit equals zero. You prove my point. Dennis Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 00:02:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA07599; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 00:01:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 00:01:19 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981031080814.00e36e1c@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 03:08:14 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Hydroxy research Cc: "dwenbert" , trknute@earthlink.net, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, Stefan Hartmann , mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca Resent-Message-ID: <"0ZvJW2.0.bs1.FFiEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7388 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi; At 12:46 AM 10/31/98 -0500, mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca wrote: >Come on now how are you going to coordinate all this? Typical wishful >thinking, totalling impractical... We should give stuff away no charge to nice people like you. I agree. >What would you expect these people to do?? Go around praising the inventors >on how great the invention is and then build and market it for them to >boot? If it really is a good innovation, wouldn't that be the ethical and honest thing to do? Would this attitude encourage more invention? Is ethics and honesty on the priority list at all? - Why or why not, can you specify? >Have you inventors never heard of the NIH (Not Invented Here) >syndrome? For them to be as enthusiastic as the inventors it would also >have to be their idea at least partially - its called buy in... sorry life >is just that way... I don't understand this buy in idea. Is this the excuse used so that they don't have to go around praising the inventors on how great the invention is and then build and market it for them? Do you think that this is honorable and a desirable behavior in a civilized society? Maybe this is why you're having such a difficult time? Let's see you invent something and then deal with people who are as you describe. Is this why you want someone else to do the work? Because the only way to be successful with such people is if you get it for free and sell lower than what it took to develop the idea? >I agree with Dwenbert... > >"They all seem to be bumbling around like Newman, not getting >anything accomplished. If these people are this inept at business, they >can't be so all-fired brilliant at anything else. People skills are not >THAT remote from other forms of abstract reasoning." Present day people skills seem exactly opposite those of inventing skills. On the one hand, truth is the last thing desired, on the other hand, truth is what is seeked. Let me guess, you are people skills oriented. >Well stop hoarding the info. Let it out in the public domain and pls don't >give us all the tiresome diatribe on non disclosure agreements and how the >inventors have spent all their lifes on their inventions etc. and have >every right for a 'ransom' for their info etc. Cool! Go out and find Irving Langmuir's atomic hydrogen papers of 1912. Come back here and post them on the web. The part about LEAD AMALGAM electrode construction, may be of interest. This is for real. Let's see you live by your words. In a way, those in the know are probably trying to protect nieve people like us from becoming just another statistic. Perhaps young fools like us should be given access to this technology. Most of us would probably be stopped in a real ugly way. I would work on this technology dispite such danger as a patriotic duty. A few might make it to make a difference. The dangers involved for us finding a way to use this knowledge wisely is less of a risk than counting on luck to keep the icecaps stable in the near future. It's not even luck, they'll just run and hide and leave us behind as they have probably planned all along. Don't complain because it is attitudes like yours that is creating the situation in the first place. You don't want to give the inventor even rightful recognition (nevermind fair compensation) and you want to make all the money. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. Dennis Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 02:41:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA27714; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 02:37:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 02:37:50 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981031104420.00e27c94@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 05:44:20 -0500 To: lizardhaven@zippnet.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Hydroxy research Resent-Message-ID: <"vZx0j3.0.ym6.-XkEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7389 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi; At 07:54 AM 10/30/98 -0800, pat weissleader wrote: >the problem, Plasmatic, is that the people who can build such devices >distain any plan that produces fairly small scale, units, within the >price range of ordinay people to buy, and usable for things ordinary >people need to do. Ordinary people will need to levitate off the planet or lift a polar icecap. > 5 years ago yul brown had units available, but they >were made in asia and i suppose the patents bought up by some >corporation that had no real interest in the needs of ordinary people. >the inventors can not build and sell units or they get the government >harassment-george wiseman said if he sold anything other than plans >(such as units or parts) his mail in both canada and the us stopped >getting delivered. anyne who knows how to build from the plans, is an >experimentor and has no interest in production of units for sale. >because every unit in use is individualy built and not identical to any >other unit, there is no certainty that any plan will do just what is >expected-no standard to go by for checking. That Meyer patent had everything described in detail except the electrode wall thicknesses. A check might be to build the electronics EXACTLY as it is specified in the patent. I mean down to the same ferrite part numbers. There shouldn't be any reason why not except lazyness. Then power up and see if the waveform looks like the one shown in the patent. The experimentation would be with the electrode wall thicknesses. Think mass chord theory. Actually, just get Irving Langmuir's paper on atomic hydrogen in 1912 and make LEAD AMALGAM electrodes. The Meyer patent exercise would be good for testing Mass Chord theory and formula. >when experimentors want to get some money back for their efforts-as they >rightly sholud do-and get into conracts and manufacturing concerns >similar to 'mainsteam' stuff, it always gets bogged down and doesn't >happen. i suspect that the way government or large corporations control >this kind of invention is to lie in wait for them to look into >manufacture I wonder if the people in the government who are actually committing these suppressive acts know about the polar icecap crisis? Do they even know about the global warming implications? Would they have second thoughts if they were aware that such acts were damaging everyones chance for a future on a level of Biblical proportions? ...i have been trying for years to get someone, anyone to >build me a unit-i have offered some modest funding up front, but no one >who can build them is interested in doing so for people like you and me. How's that solar refridgeration system doing? Have you found any numbers to put on the diagram describing the heat transfer events defining the system? Dennis Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 05:48:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA24088; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 05:47:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 05:47:35 -0800 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981030065553.008ae7e0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 06:55:53 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"_iVvf1.0.Iu5.tJnEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7390 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >To: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca >From: trknute@earthlink.net >Subject: Re: Hydroxy research >In-Reply-To: <199810310600.BAA29992@juliet.its.uwo.ca> >References: <3.0.5.32.19981029175704.008b5b40@earthlink.net> > >At 12:46 AM 10/31/98 -0500, you wrote: >>At 05:57 PM 10/29/98 -0800, trknute@earthlink.net wrote: >>[snip] >>>could focus and share information. >>> >> >>TR Knudtson, >> >>If you want to share the info why are you beating around the bush? Just >>put it in the public domain! Frankly I am getting a bit tired of these >>teases that people in the know and/or with hidden agendas keep badgering >>various lists with.... >> >>>The thing that I am wanting to offer to those who would involve themselves >>>directly in the research, is complete disclosure of all reports and >>>documentation. This may be different than the news group. >>> >>>If this project goes on to develop a collective product, a final granting >>>of patent or such, I would see it as a possession of the group, and >>>ownership then be of an international distribution, to each contributing >>>member. >> >>Come on now how are you going to coordinate all this? Typical wishful >>thinking, totalling impractical... >> >>>In bringing Brown to the US in 90, I had hoped that the us would not act >>>in this way, much to my disappointment it was the case. Even after >>>demonstrating the technology for the Lawrence Livermore labs, The excited >>>scientists left our meeting with the greatest enthusiasm claiming this the >>>most important discovery since the atomic age, There quote not mine, only >>>to turn sour over night, phoning later to explain that they had not much >>>extra time to spend on such things. >> >>What would you expect these people to do?? Go around praising the inventors >>on how great the invention is and then build and market it for them to >>boot? Have you inventors never heard of the NIH (Not Invented Here) >>syndrome? For them to be as enthusiastic as the inventors it would also >>have to be their idea at least partially - its called buy in... sorry life >>is just that way... >> >>I agree with Dwenbert... >> >>"They all seem to be bumbling around like Newman, not getting >>anything accomplished. If these people are this inept at business, they >>can't be so all-fired brilliant at anything else. People skills are not >>THAT remote from other forms of abstract reasoning." >> >>If only the inventors had spent half the time and money marketing their >>invention instead of trying to convince disinterested parties something may >>have come of it..... >> >>> >>>Oh hell!, I just want to cut down on my e-mail, and have one place for >>>people to come to get as much as they can, in the way of starting in this >>>technology, and free of charge. That does not mean that we have to let out >>>specifics on a given design that the group may be working on. >> >>Free of charge? not let out specifics? Either its public domain or its not. >>Really this is just more rubbish! >>Less malarkey please! >> >>>I have always been an advocate that the future of this technology does not >>>lie in making units, but rather in the applications of this gas. >>> >> >>Well stop hoarding the info. Let it out in the public domain and pls don't >>give us all the tiresome diatribe on non disclosure agreements and how the >>inventors have spent all their lifes on their inventions etc. and have >>every right for a 'ransom' for their info etc. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS >>sorry for the catch but that's life and I can tell you 'information wants >>to be free' and sooner or later we will have the info. So if you want to >>make a difference do it sooner... as it may be very later.. as in scheme of >>things (nature) time is irrelevant. >> >> >>On a positive note I have learned a lot from your posts and its a real >>pity that this is turning out be so unnecessarily complex... If we had more >>info we all could learn/dialogue with a lot more substance and accelerate >>this technology, While we both seem to want the same thing, going in >>circles is just not going to do it. Sad >> >> >>Chris Gupta >> >>>TR Knudtson >>> >> >> >> >> >> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 06:14:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA28829; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 06:13:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 06:13:30 -0800 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981030072150.008ab100@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 07:21:50 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydroxy research Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"bXZju2.0.N27.AinEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7391 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From: "David Callaghan" >To: >Subject: Re: Hydroxy research >Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:57:24 -0000 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 > >Hi TRK > >Sorry for the delay, I have been away and I have only just got round to >reading my mail. > >I would be glad to be part of any group researching hydrogen / hydroxy. >Also, I have just set up a blank website at Geocities that we could use for >the purpose of any group. I will find out how to set up a list server on >the site. > >I'm off tomorrow to get remaining parts for my electrolysis experiment. I'm >going to do some manual tests before I set the thing running in automatic. >Do you know of any problems with using concentric circular electrodes? > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > > > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 06:16:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA30093; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 06:15:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 06:15:28 -0800 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981030072346.007c99b0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 07:23:46 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydroxy research Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"jEVPM3.0.3M7._jnEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7392 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 06:57:09 -0800 >To: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca >From: trknute@earthlink.net >Subject: Re: Hydroxy research >In-Reply-To: <199810310600.BAA29992@juliet.its.uwo.ca> >References: <3.0.5.32.19981029175704.008b5b40@earthlink.net> > >Dear Chris, > >Thank you for your post. I do much enjoy reviewing those who would openly criticize an idea, as I see it, it is truthful information of the problems to be faced in a given idea or proposal. > >What I have shared here is very specific to the technology, and hard won information. Please understand, that you view my efforts in the light of the existence of the Internet, this is a totally new world, unlike when this work was originally done. > >I will for instance, reference the information regarding plate proximity and voltage requirements. In pre-internet days, this may have taken long hours of study and some bit of luck to find, as are resonate harmonics. Those things have been shared openly. There are single sentences, in some of my posts that have taken years and the work of many people, to then be simply, and easily placed here. Many who have been keeping a file of my posts are now making units that work, and that is exactly what I wanted to see. As far as "not invented here", my most recent unit is working in Canada and is now undergoing testing and adaptation for the mining community of Canada. > >The post about forming a web site, is a good idea, and one of the obvious steps needed, to more properly use the power of the internet in furthering this technology, but as you might expect, that may become a full time job in it's self. > >One main purpose in my suggestion of this project was to replicate my self many times over, among people who also would like to see this technology go forward. I can and will continue to post here, as well as keeping up my other internet work in helping groups with this technology. > >Multiple, independent corroboration, of each step in the design process is another thing that I can see of value in a group research project. As this unit would grow, many could come to bear on the independent verification of the test data. Errors could be caught quickly, and corrected. > >Public domain, is what my posts have now become. I feel that you may have misunderstood what I meant by certain restrictions of specific information. It is my expressed purpose, that the greatest amount of information be placed on a web site and shared with all to do there own work in this area of research. >I do feel that it would be unfair to release, outside the core group, design criteria specific to the prime project of the competition. That would be like running a race, where the rules are, that you must push your opponent in front of you. > >One of the hardest things that I have personally faced here, is to get people to the point of understanding that there is no one universal design. Or if there is one, it is the welder. Rather that getting into designing such a thing from the ground up, the option there, is just to go buy one. Although they cost about $10,000, many, I work with have done exactly that, and are now seeking and receiving my help on designing application technology. I think my work here is different in that I seek to help those who want a deeper, first hand understanding of this technology. i.e. What experiments to do, what electrolyte to use, how much concentration, what plate material/spacing/connection, what type of power supply, how much current, all those things. All of this saves a beginner many hundreds of hours of research, and I am glad to do it. > >One of my posts dealt with the eradication of Asbestos, a difficult problem for our world. The group that started right here on this site, is now completing work on their first production cell. They did as I had suggested and bought a BN 200, for $2,700, to proof out the concept, and launched right in to the work on a interim level unit, not a full plant design. They are taking the steps, and doing the work needed to manufacture their own design, specific to the needs of their application. > >I am hoping to foster another group in the Southwestern United States, to work on the Knudtson Power cell technology, once again started right here in this site. A very simple technology well outlined here, but can it run house? A neighborhood? A city? Although the technology has been shown to work, a full scale unit has never been built. And, there again to what scale? House or city or factory or space station? The neat thing that you might be a bit more appreciative of, is that you were part of that process, you were there and involved in some of the first talks of this project. > >This Grant proposal, zero "G" Hydroxy welder, is just one more in a long line of research projects that I am presently working on and would hope to further along. I guess that is what I call "planting" the seeds of change. > >Please continue to offer other areas where you see problems in this idea. I read your posts and they point out many things that I need to be conscious of if I am to be successful in this or many other such efforts. > >All the best > >TR Knudtson > > >At 12:46 AM 10/31/98 -0500, you wrote: >>At 05:57 PM 10/29/98 -0800, trknute@earthlink.net wrote: >>[snip] >>>could focus and share information. >>> >> >>TR Knudtson, >> >>If you want to share the info why are you beating around the bush? Just >>put it in the public domain! Frankly I am getting a bit tired of these >>teases that people in the know and/or with hidden agendas keep badgering >>various lists with.... >> >>>The thing that I am wanting to offer to those who would involve themselves >>>directly in the research, is complete disclosure of all reports and >>>documentation. This may be different than the news group. >>> >>>If this project goes on to develop a collective product, a final granting >>>of patent or such, I would see it as a possession of the group, and >>>ownership then be of an international distribution, to each contributing >>>member. >> >>Come on now how are you going to coordinate all this? Typical wishful >>thinking, totalling impractical... >> >>>In bringing Brown to the US in 90, I had hoped that the us would not act >>>in this way, much to my disappointment it was the case. Even after >>>demonstrating the technology for the Lawrence Livermore labs, The excited >>>scientists left our meeting with the greatest enthusiasm claiming this the >>>most important discovery since the atomic age, There quote not mine, only >>>to turn sour over night, phoning later to explain that they had not much >>>extra time to spend on such things. >> >>What would you expect these people to do?? Go around praising the inventors >>on how great the invention is and then build and market it for them to >>boot? Have you inventors never heard of the NIH (Not Invented Here) >>syndrome? For them to be as enthusiastic as the inventors it would also >>have to be their idea at least partially - its called buy in... sorry life >>is just that way... >> >>I agree with Dwenbert... >> >>"They all seem to be bumbling around like Newman, not getting >>anything accomplished. If these people are this inept at business, they >>can't be so all-fired brilliant at anything else. People skills are not >>THAT remote from other forms of abstract reasoning." >> >>If only the inventors had spent half the time and money marketing their >>invention instead of trying to convince disinterested parties something may >>have come of it..... >> >>> >>>Oh hell!, I just want to cut down on my e-mail, and have one place for >>>people to come to get as much as they can, in the way of starting in this >>>technology, and free of charge. That does not mean that we have to let out >>>specifics on a given design that the group may be working on. >> >>Free of charge? not let out specifics? Either its public domain or its not. >>Really this is just more rubbish! >>Less malarkey please! >> >>>I have always been an advocate that the future of this technology does not >>>lie in making units, but rather in the applications of this gas. >>> >> >>Well stop hoarding the info. Let it out in the public domain and pls don't >>give us all the tiresome diatribe on non disclosure agreements and how the >>inventors have spent all their lifes on their inventions etc. and have >>every right for a 'ransom' for their info etc. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS >>sorry for the catch but that's life and I can tell you 'information wants >>to be free' and sooner or later we will have the info. So if you want to >>make a difference do it sooner... as it may be very later.. as in scheme of >>things (nature) time is irrelevant. >> >> >>On a positive note I have learned a lot from your posts and its a real >>pity that this is turning out be so unnecessarily complex... If we had more >>info we all could learn/dialogue with a lot more substance and accelerate >>this technology, While we both seem to want the same thing, going in >>circles is just not going to do it. Sad >> >> >>Chris Gupta >> >>>TR Knudtson >>> >> >> >> >> >> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 06:26:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA00860; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 06:25:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 06:25:23 -0800 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981030073342.00862c10@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 07:33:42 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydroxy research Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"tGHwV3.0.MD.ItnEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7393 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear David, That is wonderful! Keep up the good work. I have no fear for you to use concentric sleeves, Keep then no closer that 3/16" spacing and you should be fine, What I do want you to look at however is concentric spirals, comprised of only two plates, wound like a capacitor, in this way you can maintain precise plate area surface matching. Please think about trying this shape. Check out local metal forming shops near you and you should be able to find someone to bend them for you. This design allows you to place massive plate areas in the same, small space, and the shape of critical to the resonate frequencies that you seek to test. Also try this shape with a rectified transformer output of 60 cycle, sized to you current demands. This spiral shape in critical in many units that I build, and was the key component in the Australian units control cell. You can maintain plate spacing either with plastic end caps, with grooved paths for the plates, or periodic spacers between the plates, but here once again try to keep it greater that 3/16". All the best TR Knudtson The web site and list server would be of the greatest help! >From: "David Callaghan" >To: >Subject: Re: Hydroxy research >Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:57:24 -0000 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 > >Hi TRK > >Sorry for the delay, I have been away and I have only just got round to >reading my mail. > >I would be glad to be part of any group researching hydrogen / hydroxy. >Also, I have just set up a blank website at Geocities that we could use for >the purpose of any group. I will find out how to set up a list server on >the site. > >I'm off tomorrow to get remaining parts for my electrolysis experiment. I'm >going to do some manual tests before I set the thing running in automatic. >Do you know of any problems with using concentric circular electrodes? > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > > > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 08:05:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA25114; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 07:53:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 07:53:54 -0800 Message-ID: <363B5A07.7A1B@tiac.net> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 10:42:16 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CIA? This is for you! References: <1.5.4.32.19981031064911.00e34c60@popd.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NWkpB2.0.G86.HApEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7394 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dennis C. Lee wrote: > >> Damn you discovered our methods of research! Funny the MKULTRA program did > >> not predict this, you know too much Dennis! > > > >Ahh, Bill, I'll have to report this to the regional office you know. > > Bob and Bill, how about putting that high powered witty energy into > seriously looking into this issue. Can we say, constructive solution to fix > the problem? Unfortunately, laughing isn't going to do anything but make me > believe that you are as much the fool as you think of me. You are probably > right though. They will just laugh this off like you guys, and run into > shelters if and when the results of their protecting us from ourselves > becomes reality as current conditions predict. > > What's the problem? You think there is no icecap problem? You think trimming > the icecap is useless? You think the government wouldn't risk everything > unnecessarily just to keep appearances up and status quo maintained? You > think they wouldn't hide and leave us to fend for ourselves? Thats a lot of questions for one pargraph. Whats the problem, I do not think you have made a good case for your viewpoint. If there is an icecap problem, your presentation so far is to misapply conventional physics and then claim to have discovered new principles. So where are the presentations and proofs of the new principles? Your not going to overturn years of (claimed) secrecy with that kind of a 'hand-waving' claim. The claims that the Stealth F-117 and B2's use electrogravitation are simply absurd. These are quite conventional aircraft with conventional engines and aerodynamics and flight behaviors. So how do you support the claim that the 'government' has what you want released, to fix the 'problem' you have not made a good case for yet? There may well be hidden, very advanced designs, but the ideas that this technology is in the 117's and B2's is faulty. Your not going to change large scale behaviors with weak and faulty data. In fact, your not going to change that behavior with perfect data and shinging reason. Thats simply not how people behave. Nevermind how you think a society should act, look at the history of how people REALLY act. Your not going to get squat released by the 'spooks'. Rethink your plans. > Positive energy unit plus negative energy unit equals zero. You prove my point. Actually, energy cannot be destroyed, the answer is not zero. (ask the Scalar fans about this one....) Energy spent against an immovable object equals zero movement, energy can be wasted it seems. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 08:38:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA04406; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 08:37:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 08:37:15 -0800 Message-ID: <363B3C0F.A95A69A7@zippnet.net> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 08:34:24 -0800 From: pat weissleader Reply-To: lizardhaven@zippnet.net Organization: lizardhaven X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dwenbert CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydroxy research References: <002601be045e$6fdc5460$9037a8cf@dwenbert.spacey.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Dh4Xr3.0.U41.wopEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7395 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com i know about george wiseman's mail stoppage because he told me personally. i also feel quite certain that yul brown's technology was stopped by a deliberate plan. the units were on the market before he was forced to leave the country-i met a woman who had bought one and was using it for making jewelry. i spoke to yul about buying one and it was no longer possible when the asian company began to manufacture them-or what ever they did with the technology. from hearing details from people who had reason to know, i feel you was forced to leave the country as a result of his almost successfully marketing his technology. i do not know about his death but that would be in accord with the pattern. i also know that the only practical devices that are available to the public are made on a small scale by the inventor or someone connected with him, and sold casually without the use of the normal marketing methods. it is too bad that the inventors can not use the ordinary routes to making decent money from their inventions, but these are the facts of life. if a new technology is to get into the mainstream it must do so in a small form as a gadget or a toy.how many people first learned of solar PV power with a music box? an inventor must choose whether he wants to get the technology out or not. the choice to try the route to patents and large scale manufacturing does not lead to either making money or getting the technology out. one only has to look at any of the inventors or any alternative device to prove that. i have george's plans for the brown's gas device. in fact i found a puppy chewing some of the pages-it really does not matter if he eats it all-i am not able to build the device-i can do other things but i can not dothat. i have sent plans to several people who said they would build them and they have not done so. in time someone who is able to build this kind of thing will do so and have the continued interest to produce small units, and the people who buy them will be able to compare notes until a reliable unit and reasonable guidelines for use are worked out. this is what has happened with the bare/rife unit for medical use. when someone begins small scale production of a bown's gas unit, people like me can get one. if i am able and i see a firm setup that is actually resulting in some units being built, i will give what financia support i am able, right no that would not be mch, later it might be substantial. as far as i can tell these units are the same as others producing h2 and O2, with a different form of electricity going in to gt a different form of gas to come out. if geoge's battery charger plan truly does provide the right electricity, then perhaps it can be used on a commercially available electrolysis chamber. if a very small unit is produced that is suitable for jewelry, etc, it would be the 'toy' that, like the solar music box, would prove the technology and also get the technology out to public domain so it would be protected from sabotage. then it would be likely that manufacture of some larger units could take place based on demand. i recognize the frustration of those who have tried and failed to get new technology out by the methods that should have been allowed to work. but the emperor has no clothes.i spent a number of years checking out the various technologies and what really worked and what was actually available. i know that brown's gas is all it is claimed to be. but i also know that the people who are able to build the units have no intention of following any course of action that will make the units available to ordinary people like me. -- Patricia Weissleader at Lizardhaven Ranch 'where the critter meets the glitter' From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 09:04:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA10479; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 08:53:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 08:53:38 -0800 To: fepps@halcyon.com Cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 08:18:47 -0800 Subject: Re: Nonlinear device Message-ID: <19981031.085127.3614.0.tv@juno.com> References: Conversation <19981029.214551.3374.2.tv@juno.com> with last X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,4-5,7-11,13-19 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"wGnsn3.0.ZZ2.H2qEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7396 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Fred, One of the reasons I am hopeful that there may be something to the Zaev device is that it uses a material that fits the criterion of a machine that uses microscopic "ratchets mechanisms" or "heat engines", the Barium Titanate crystal structural unit (molecule). The possibility exists for a synergistic coordination between massive numbers of such units working in concert to deliver usable high grade energy. The Zaev device would be a parametric amplifier with the fluctuation energy pumping the Barium Titanate dielectric. Similar possibilities exist for ferromagnetic materials, and semiconductor devices. The problem is to isolate the coherent part from the entropy. Tim ( tv@juno.com ) ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 09:30:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA21452; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:28:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:28:15 -0800 Message-ID: <363B4804.BCC6D70C@zippnet.net> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:25:24 -0800 From: pat weissleader Reply-To: lizardhaven@zippnet.net Organization: lizardhaven X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydroxy research References: <1.5.4.32.19981031104420.00e27c94@popd.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TxTKm2.0.6F5.kYqEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7397 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com i have been working on the solar refrigeration project for about 5 years. this is something i can do because i do know piping, and the pressures and fluids of refrigeration type stuff is within my ability to learn. i have done something valuable in this in publishing a book that took the past data i could find on this technology and turned mathmatical stuff into concepts so people could work on ideas without having the knowledge of an engineer. the reason i do not have a running unit right now is that i am living on a disability pension and building a house without benefit of a mortgage.right now the building department is pressuring me to finish it and i do not have the $5000 to do so. also i am doing most of the work myself and my hands are shot-and i have not succeeded in getting any help. but i have built it with a place for the solar refrigeration nit, or series of prototypes, if needed, is to be, with clear access to the roof for the lines, etc. george wiseman told me that it is better to think it out to the last degree insted of relying on prototypes to work out the fine details, and i have done this to a great degree. i got one of those patent dealies for my ideas and let it go public domain, realy more to test the patent office to see if stuff could get by easily if described as a 'novelty beer cooler'. i can not be sure when i will get past my present difficulties and have some resources to devote to the solar refrigeration. but i do guarantee that in time i will have a simple model running and at least plans that anyone can follow to make a unit that will do something that is better than nothing, and available at a reasonable cost to anyone, and made with off the shelf parts. for those of you who don't know it, in the 20's they sold a unit called the 'icy ball' it was sort of like a dumbbell shape with a 'u' in the bar. it had ammonia and water in it and you put one side into the sun, to evaporate the ammonia out of the water. then you took it in the house and put the otherside in a bucket of water to get the hot ammonia gas to liquify in th eside without the water. then you put that side in a cooler box, leaving the side with water out in the air. or you could put that side in a bucket of water. the water side, now cooler than the sun made it, pulls the ammonia back and with it, the heat in the cooler box, making ice and refrigeration for up to 48 hours. i know that i can easily duplicte the icy ball technology, especially with today's manufactured stuff. my first prototype will be with plastic line between plastic containers and store ammonia in one side (which is already mixed with water) if i put the ater side in the sun and then use a small styrofoam cooler i can see how much cold i actually get. if i have a valve in the line, i can hold the ammonia on the water free side dump ou the water left from the evaporating ammonia, and add more store ammonia, learning how many degrees i get colder in the box from each bottle of ammonia. this is sort of cave man level inventing, but when my mother was grooming me to marry a rich ngineer from harvey mudd, i had no idea i would ever even have to peel my own grapes in life and was over 30 before i learned to change the spark plug on a car without crying. i was able to put togther my own solar electric system-which powers my house completlely for 9 years now -edison has never been on my property except for twice new guys tying to find a meter to bill me (ha ha ha -brag brag) because i could get ready made components and hook them together-i did not have to understand electronics or manufacture parts. when i understand how much cold i can get from a plastic system-and if i avoid getting killed from ammonia gas or things blowing up, then the problem is finding a corrosion free system to mount permanently. if i know i can get stuff cold i will invest in stainless steel-i think i can get pipe and fittings for that in a refrigeration place, and what valves and tanks i need.there is a system proven that parks the ammonia in calcium chloride instead of water, eliminating most of the draw backs of such systems and allowing the heating tank to be on the roof and feed down into the house through the same pvc pipe that is use for plumbing vents-and the same roof flanges to make a watertight roof around the system. i am hoping that i can eliminate the cooling fins by having a length of pipe going through insulation to allow the hot gas to cool off enough and eliminate some of the system complication. unfortunately i have had to cut back my friviolous expenses like diamonds, furs, and inventing, to do only the critical stuff-which is to finish the house and get it sighed off and the building department off my back. right now i am not sure if i will make it by the deadlines. but if i end up living in a hole, as soon as it is settled i will begin work on solar cooling for the hole. then i will look for foriegn investors to mass produce hole coolers NOT. i am sympathetic to inventors who are not able to get right off their inventions, or even gain much by them. i do not understand how they manage to have a value system that means their genuis never results in something people need. it is amazing to me that it is left to me to figure out the solar refrigeration-and it is possible that by the time i have done so, it will still be left to me to see that brown's gas (and i am going to honor the name of the man who got the technology to a point that someone was able to buy it, by calling it that) gets to the people.and you know how i will do that? i will sponsor an inventing club at the local junior high school, and finding a couple kids woh are anxious to learn to do stuff if i feed a little money for parts and guide them toward some projects that will bring them some pocket and college money. i hate to say this and i am sure it is not warranted,if i knew all the facts, but it is what i feel: if i can do what i have done and what i plan to do with so little skills and knowledge, SHAME ON YOU WHO HAVE THE REAL KNOWLEDGE AND SKILLS FOR NOT DOING MORE. -- Patricia Weissleader at Lizardhaven Ranch 'where the critter meets the glitter' From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 09:44:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA26330; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:43:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:43:09 -0800 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981030103314.008a4b20@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 10:33:14 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Knudtson power cell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"GyDQb1.0.HR6.jmqEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7398 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Knudtson Power Cell Looks like I need to take some time to clear up some misunderstandings on the Power cell. I still suggest that many of you do some of the basic steps in Hydroxy, before trying these power cells. In the basic power cell, the electrolyte does change slightly in KOH concentration, but there is a large zone of tolerance here. I suggest that in a vertically oriented unit, in that the design allows for an extra reservoir amount of electrolyte, equal to the total amount used by obtaining maximum pressure as a gas, in the fuel cell section of the cell. Avoid allowing you production section to dry out. Allow for a safety margin, to maintain wetting of the production cell plates. For simplicity of design, initially make each of the plate sets identical. All plates of both production and emission sections, can be made from one spiral bent plate design, as to rotate the plate slightly, allows it to fit directly inside a matching spiral plate. One single plate design is used for all. 2 times spacing, plus material detentions. No, you do not have to pressurize these units. At the chemical level, where electrolyses takes place there is no effect of pressure. The atoms do not even know of what we call pressure. The act of electrolyzing the water forms the pressurization. In your first attempts try to stay under 30 PSI. I know the gas to be stable above 100 PSI but why go there? 10 PSI will be enough to proof out the designs. Sizing, I would not worry too much about size, of test units. I would say, just keep them small, to cut cost of research. A, 3" diameter by 36" long unit should do nicely for testing, and you do not need to be a micro surgeon to do the assembly. Calculations can be then rendered for surface area to watt input/output ratios, from your tests. No, you do not have to worry about over discharging this system. That is what is nice about no moving parts. It just will stop producing electricity. No, the water does not go away. It is only used as a storage medium for the energy, when the electricity is recovered from the medium, the gas returns to water, draining back to the production section, and the whole thing starts all over again. Plate sacrificing. This unit does not know one plate from the other. Diode orientation of output is all that need be done. As far as production plates are concerned, for tests, I would not worry about it. Eventually, I would suggest cycling the polarity of the production plates, in a metered sequencing. Insulation to ground; If you are using a conductive type of containment, yes you will have to insulate the all internal surfaces. I suggest checking with a powder coating company and seeing what they might offer. For those "back yard" types, electric motor shellacs work well and can be had at most rewind shops. Safety, all containment's should be of sufficient strength to sustain a total flash back at maximum pressure. Period. Because Hydroxy has such a high frequency ring, at detonation, I would suggest that you make a small electrolyzer, and test the units dynamically. Just pressure calculations are not enough. And, when in doubt, over build. These are just test units. After you are done, you can send your data out, and true material experts will crawl all over it. Always purge your units for 4 hours prior to sealing them up. You want no stray gasses in the units. Keep checking the electrolyte level during this process. To form a gaseous seal I use a bubblier jar. Once sealed, repeat this purging each time you have to open them for inspection. Always provide some sort of pressure relief safety valve. I also suggest a fatigue rated plastic plug, as a total failsafe. I do not suggest storage tanks of any type. This cell is so simple that the whole concept is a bust if you try to complicate it with tanks and such. Put into mass production, the simpler the design the better. The production of a final unit should be under about $50 dollars, and last many years. Keep in mind that, Hydroxy can store allot of energy. Also Hydroxy stores electrical potential in both Hydrogen atom and the oxygen atom, so you should have plenty of power to play with. Always, always test before advancing. In general. Just think of this thing as an infinitely rechargeable gas battery. Once sealed, it just goes and goes and goes. TR Knudtson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 13:20:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA15725; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 13:18:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 13:18:55 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <1ec778a9.363b7e98@aol.com> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 16:18:16 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: serjio@glasnet.ru, harti@harti.com, leoguitar@vossnet.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Zaev's Generator - New varicond test RUN 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Resent-Message-ID: <"kiWp51.0.dr3._wtEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7399 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi All, I have just updated my web site with the latest "Variconds Test" report ( RUN 3) from Sergey Godin about the Zaev's generator. You will find all diagrams, pictures and sound... at: http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/nzaevsg3.htm Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 13:35:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA20837; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 13:33:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 13:33:50 -0800 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981030103314.008a4b20@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 16:33:38 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: Knudtson power cell Resent-Message-ID: <"O3hIc1.0.S55.y8uEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7400 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thanks for the Hydroxy starting document! A few questions: What do you suggest as "some of the basic steps in Hydroxy, before trying these power cells"? What is the output voltage of a single cell? Does the output depend upon the pressure? What material should be used for the plates? What voltage should a single cell "hydroxy battery" be charged with or does it matter? What does "2 times spacing, plus material detentions" mean? Will KOH dissolve PVC plastic pipe? "Diode orientation of output is all that need be done." Does this mean that a diode is required to force one plate to be positive and the other negative? "Safety, all containment's should be of sufficient strength to sustain a total flash back at maximum pressure. Period." Does this then exclude plastic pipe such as PVC? Will plastic take a flash back? "To form a gaseous seal I use a bubblier jar." To eliminate atmosphere gas, do you then fill the pipe totally with liquid and begin charging while venting the gas produced through a water seal until the liquid level is below the output cells? Seems like a lot of wasted gas production. Is there a drawing to help with this construction? Thanks for your help. Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Institute for Planetary Renewal http://user.icx.net/~richarda (newly updated web site) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 13:49:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA24327; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 13:47:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 13:47:28 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981031215445.00e35648@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 16:54:45 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: CIA? This is for you! Resent-Message-ID: <"7d1Eq1.0.1y5.mLuEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7401 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi; At 10:42 AM 10/31/98 -0800, you wrote: >Dennis C. Lee wrote: > >> What's the problem? You think there is no icecap problem? You think trimming >> the icecap is useless? You think the government wouldn't risk everything >> unnecessarily just to keep appearances up and status quo maintained? You >> think they wouldn't hide and leave us to fend for ourselves? > >Thats a lot of questions for one pargraph. > >Whats the problem, I do not think you have made a good case for your >viewpoint. > >If there is an icecap problem, your presentation so far is to misapply >conventional physics and then claim to have discovered new principles. The book is 400 pages long. It took me 3 or 4 months of study to see the evidence. You won't put in the time to do homework. My abbreviated quotes should have been sufficient for anyone if they read very carefully. >So where are the presentations and proofs of the new principles? OK here it is one more time: >From 5/5/2000 page vi : > >> Smithsonian Magazine, August 1993, states "every 7,000 years" the >>weight of ice turns the rock under it into a toothpaste consistency >>providing lubrication and "When this happens, the entire ice sheet >>over Hudson Bay would slide out into the North Atlantic." Should >>that event happen today, the resulting tidal wave would be >>approximately three hundred feet high when it hit New York City. >> Then, research by Drs. Barclay Kamb and Hermann Engelhardt at >>Caltech, in Pasadena, revealed a layer of goo also comprised of >>water-saturated pulverized rock under the ice at the South Pole. >>Dr. Engelhardt told me this mixture "has the consistency of >>toothpaste." Now, neither polar ice sheet is solidly anchored to >>the underlying strata and both are, at present, resting on a >>lubricating mixture. It is known that a viscous material will >>yield easily to a comparatively slight pressure exerted over time. >> If a gentle tug or push is exerted horizontally on the earth to >>shove it in a given direction on 5/5/2000, then the reader will >>find Drs. Hapgood and Einsteins' research, presented in this book, >>rather chilling. Einstein knew the rock under the ice would be >>pulverized forty years ago! In January 1955, he discussed with >>Hapgood the application of a principle by which the tangential >>stress proceeding from the icecap was greatly magnified to the >>point that it would someday pulverize the rock under the icecap. >>A stress that Einstein wrote, "will, when it has reached a certain >>point, produce a movement of the earth's crust over the rest of the >>earth's body, and this will displace the polar regions toward the >>equator." >> > >And what about this message from a reader? > > >> > I'm really sick of this nonsense and >> > appalled at the ignorance of elementary >> > physics that allows it to propagate. >> > NOTHING will twist the rotational axis of >> > the earth perceptibly except collision >> > with another heavenly object having >> > enormous mass. >> >>Well, I'm afraid when you read this you're going to get even sicker. >> >>My elementary geophysics tells me that the the earth is very, very, nearly >>a perfect sphere. The much talked about equatorial bulges or "oblate >>spheroid" shape is extremely small compared with the size of the earth. >> >>Then, my elementary physics tells me that a perfect spinning sphere has >>*NO* gyroscopic stability. Nada, none at all. If the earth were a perfect >>sphere, after a few years a gang of fleas all farting in the same direction >>could tilt the earth off its axis. Of course it's not quite a perfect >>sphere. So how does that tiny equatorial bulge stack up against the ice >>packs anyway? Is much of that equatorial bulge made up of seawater? I'd >>really be interested in a good explanation of the physics of the stability >>of a spinning *elastic* sphere (perhaps fluid filled, like a near-spherical >>water balloon for instance). I'd think its centrifugal bulge would >>contribute to stability as expected, but is it truly the same as a rigid >>solid having a fixed equatorial bulge? How would such a fluid system react, >>for instance, to a field which applied force to all the elements (molecules >>or whatever) of the system all at once? The earth, even the solid rock, >>might as well be considered a near-fluid when taken altogether as a planet. >> >>There may be other forces between the earth and sun, or even the other >>planets, that loom large but unknown against the simple electrogravitic >>(plain old gravity in straight radiated 'as in electrostatic' lines). >>Obviously electrostatic forces aren't small, and even gravity itself might >>have some glitches to it involving large spinning masses. I know the >>magnetogravitic effect from such systems is thought to be vanishingly >>small, but that might not be the whole story. Remember "Jove rules the >>heavens", and there's physical evidence to back the claim (angular momentum >>of the solar system). Would that be a clue? >> >>The ancients seemed terribly intersted in tracking the heavens, and >>evidence indicates they experienced enormous relief and celebration when >>observations showed that things were continuing to move in their expected >>paths. Why this paranoia about celectial objects reappearing in their >>proper places? Don't they always? Why would anyone think it could be >>otherwise? Maybe they knew something we don't? Maybe they or their >>ancestors had certain bad experiences in this regard? >> >>I'm not buying into any of this 5/5/2000 or polar shift stuff without any >>good evidence either. But I'm not so sure I can dismiss all of it out of >>hand without some good answers to some of these other questions. >> And here is a new one from a reader: > >Here is a bit more info on how a polar shift might happen. > >Since the gyroscopic effect of total mass of the earth is too great for the >entire mass to shift, a polar shift would only effect the crust of the >earth. It is helpful to think of the crust as being held in place by a >magnetized magnetic fluid. This magnetic fluid is like the magnetic fluid >in speakers which is held in the gap between the magnet structure and the >coil by the magnetic field of the magnet structure. (In the speaker the >magnetic fluid is used to transfer heat from the coil to the more massive >magnetic structure.) > >The uppermost layer of the mantle would be this magnetic fluid. It is made >more rigid by the earth's magnetic field. If the earth's magnetic field >were to reverse, as sometimes happens, the magnetic field would not be >holding this magnetic fluid in place to the same extent. If, when a >magnetic reversal happened, the crust of the earth was also out of balance, >there would be the possibility of the crust slipping on the mantle of the >earth. > >It would help to imagine a sphere, like a baseball, with a gyroscope >inside. Imagine that the core of this baseball is coated with a viscous >oil which changes its viscosity depending on the strength of the magnetic >field surrounding it. If the viscosity of the oil was high, because of a >strong magnetic field, and you grabbed the outside of the baseball and >tried to twist it counter to the spin of the gyroscope inside, it would >resist your twist quite effectively. But if you did the same thing and the >magnetic field was weak, the oil would act as a lubricant and allow the >skin of the baseball to follow the twist imparted by your hand while the >gyroscopic core of the baseball remained aligned to the spin of the gyroscope. > >With the earth, the crust is also keyed to the core by bumps and swales in >the mantle. These bumps and swales are not as detailed as the relief you >see on a map but, rather, would conform to the ups and downs of ocean >basins vs continental masses. If the crust slipped in relation to the >mantle, various areas of the crust would move up and others down in >relation to their position related to the bumps and swales of the magma >coated core. > >This might bring about the exposure of new land masses and the subsidence >of large land areas into the sea. > >According to a book titled "The Jupiter Effect" by astrophysicist John >Gribbin and physicist Stephen Plagemann, the earth's magnetic field >reversals might be triggered by a magnetic field reversal of the sun which, >in turn, might be triggered by in the region of the galaxy through which >the sun is passing. Further triggering factors would be planetary >alignments which can put stronger tidal forces into the mix. > >The interaction of all of these forces would determine the rapidity and >extent of any polar shift. The rapidity and extent of a polar shift would, >in turn, relate to the effect on human civilization. > >Most of the prophets who have prophesized polar shifts indicate that these >events are related to the state of human consciousness. In other words, >changing human consciousness can change the extent of these types of >disasters. The type of co-operation implied in your polar icecap >levitation proposal would be an indicator of a major change of human >consciousness. I believe that such a change in human consciousness would >be a greater mitigating factor in the possibility or extent of a polar >shift than would the levitation activity be itself. >The claims that the Stealth F-117 and B2's use electrogravitation are >simply >absurd. These are quite conventional aircraft with conventional engines >and aerodynamics and flight behaviors. Seismic earthquake sensors detected on of these things fly all the way around the world at 5000 MPH (as I recall) without stopping for gas. It can't be anything but TTBrown stuff. >So how do you support the claim that the 'government' has what you want >released, to fix the 'problem' you have not made a good case for yet? > >There may well be hidden, very advanced designs, but the ideas that this >technology is in the 117's and B2's is faulty. Your not going to change >large scale behaviors with weak and faulty data. Those aircraft are for show. There are designs we got from aliens that are the real McCoy. It's not my data that's the problem, it's your study skills. Headlines: World is destroyed because people refuse to do homework. I can see it now. >In fact, your not going to change that behavior with perfect data and >shinging >reason. Thats simply not how people behave. Nevermind how you think a >society >should act, look at the history of how people REALLY act. Wouldn't the world be a better place if people behaved because of proper reasoning, e.g. the greater good? I know what it's like now. I think the way I talk about is better. If people think about it and try it, they will agree. It's built into the space time fabric. The Bible was right the whole time! >Your not going to get squat released by the 'spooks'. Rethink your >plans. I just want them to know that they are using their last and only kettle of stew as a toilet. Yummy, dig in guys, bon appetit! Do the homework on this issue. The truth is out there. >Actually, energy cannot be destroyed, the answer is not zero. (ask the >Scalar fans >about this one....) You're right. It gets squirted through Planck's frequency out of our reality and it's gone, no longer detectable in our universe. Some parallel universe gets farted on. >Energy spent against an immovable object equals zero movement, energy >can be >wasted it seems. The immovable object is you. And it's only as immovable as you are determined to be. It seems people who are set in negative ways are so because they are afraid to find out if positiveness works and is better. They would rather stay in a catastrophic condition than have to face the fact that they were wrong for being negative for so long. I say be tough, face the facts, bite the bullet and do what's right. If I have to die because of a bunch of wimps, I will be so upset, I will find some way of coming back... Regards; Dennis Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 14:02:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA30561; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 14:00:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 14:00:37 -0800 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <363B5A07.7A1B@tiac.net> References: <1.5.4.32.19981031064911.00e34c60@popd.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:51:18 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: CIA? This is for you! Resent-Message-ID: <"iu4_r.0.NT7.4YuEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7402 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bob - > There may well be hidden, very advanced designs, > but the ideas that this technology is in the 117's > and B2's is faulty. >From what I have been able to gather, the "Aurora" project WAS the B-2. For a while there I thought that the B-2 might have MHD or electrogravity goodies. I'm still not totally convinced it doesn't have anything dramatically weird in it. But there's all these reports of big black triangles (often silently floating at low altitude), the hypersonic waves tracking in over the west coast, the donuts-on-a-rope and so forth. This reminds me of the technique of couching one project inside another. If you believe all we got for those untold billions of dollars is a few big fiberglass flying wings that are conventional except for some fancy paint, then...well, I've got a brid- er, bomber I'd like to sell you. I'd guess the B-2s are essentially a fleet of decoys which also have some utility as a conventional bomber, and we haven't seen the real thing yet. I've been suspicious for some time that the $400 toilet seats and all that aren't the celebrated examples of wasted tax money that they seem to be. I look at them as possibly being the same thing as the politician doing a few hours of "consulting" for someone for $10,000. It's not a high price for some little thing, it's something else that's being secretly paid for that people don't want you to see. Hopefully in the military version of this, it's something worthwhile. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 15:23:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA18344; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 15:19:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 15:19:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981031232604.00e607e4@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 18:26:04 -0500 To: lizardhaven@zippnet.net From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Hydroxy research Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"hwHRS3.0.YU4.fhvEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7403 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi; At 09:25 AM 10/31/98 -0800, you wrote: >i have been working on the solar refrigeration project for about 5 >years. this is something i can do because i do know piping, and the >pressures and fluids of refrigeration type stuff is within my ability to >learn. >i have done something valuable in this in publishing a book that took >the past data i could find on this technology and turned mathmatical >stuff into concepts so people could work on ideas without having the >knowledge of an engineer. My thermo book has a chapter on the ammonia absorbtion refridgeration cycle. This version has a pump. However the comment that a relatively high temperature source of heat must be available (100-200 degrees C) may be significant in your application. I think there is something about the heat of vaporization of propane is ~900 BTUs/gallon? Get it, BTUs/gallon, heat of vaporization? In other words, it takes ~900 BTUs of heat to vaporize a gallon of propane. The boiling point is -20 degrees F? While the vaporization or boiling process is going on, the liquid propane will try to stabilize at -20 degrees F. So if you got a gallon of liquid propane in the cooler container, and it would evaporate completely, there would be ~900 BTUs of heat pulled out of the cooler. Gotta look at the chapter more for better detail but I bet it will get to -20 degrees F. And it would work at a wider range of temperature. Ammonia boiling temperature and heat of vaporization will allow a comparison. >for those of you who don't know it, in the 20's they sold a unit called >the 'icy ball' it was sort of like a dumbbell shape with a 'u' in the >bar. it had ammonia and water in it and you put one side into the sun, >to evaporate the ammonia out of the water. then you took it in the house >and put the otherside in a bucket of water to get the hot ammonia gas to >liquify in th eside without the water. then you put that side in a >cooler box, leaving the side with water out in the air. or you could put >that side in a bucket of water. the water side, now cooler than the sun >made it, pulls the ammonia back and with it, the heat in the cooler box, >making ice and refrigeration for up to 48 hours. Was the icy ball contents under pressure? Is there one of these things still around? >when i understand how much cold i can get from a plastic system-and if >i avoid getting killed from ammonia gas or things blowing up, I wonder if the ammonia system needs to be pressurized? Is there enough ammonia in one of those bottles? >if i can do what i have done and what i plan to do with so little skills >and knowledge, SHAME ON YOU WHO HAVE THE REAL KNOWLEDGE AND SKILLS FOR >NOT DOING MORE. Shame on those who have created this situation. You are talking about the valley of death here. One shouldn't rush anyone to step into that. Dennis Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 16:17:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA01456; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 16:16:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 16:16:16 -0800 Message-ID: <363BCFCA.383F@tiac.net> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:04:42 -0800 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CIA? This is for you! References: <1.5.4.32.19981031215445.00e35648@popd.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PrTDB3.0.cM.GXwEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7404 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dennis C. Lee wrote: > >The claims that the Stealth F-117 and B2's use electrogravitation are > >simply > >absurd. These are quite conventional aircraft with conventional engines > >and aerodynamics and flight behaviors. > > Seismic earthquake sensors detected on of these things fly all the way > around the world at 5000 MPH (as I recall) without stopping for gas. It > can't be anything but TTBrown stuff. Seismic sensor detected high speed aircraft indeed, but the sightings do not match either the F-117 or the B2, neither of which would hold together at such speeds. You say it 'can't be anything but', however the majority of evidence shows that there is no TTBronwn effect at all. The high speed aircraft has been sighted, and its neither the F-117 nor the B2. The sighting describes a triangular delta wing lifting body about the size of an F-111. Some evidence suggests the use of pulse detonation wave engines, not electrogravitics. Given this, your argument falls apart, the evidence does not appear to support your argument. > >There may well be hidden, very advanced designs, but the ideas that this > >technology is in the 117's and B2's is faulty. Your not going to change > >large scale behaviors with weak and faulty data. > > Those aircraft are for show. There are designs we got from aliens that are > the real McCoy. It's not my data that's the problem, it's your study skills. Really? Check the evidence on the sightings of the SR-75 and XR-7 aircraft. > Headlines: World is destroyed because people refuse to do homework. I can > see it now. We get what we deserve. If your right, there wont be headlines anway! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 16:37:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA08887; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 16:37:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 16:37:05 -0800 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The CF answer? (was Re: A cheaper 3rd suggestion with an experiment protocol. Palladium: 29 isotope states, 6 stable.) Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 00:37:01 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3640a984.109152416@24.192.1.20> References: <1.5.4.32.19981030011930.00e39260@popd.ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19981030011930.00e39260@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bJVdc2.0.nA2.nqwEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7405 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:19:30 -0500, Dennis C. Lee wrote: >Hi; > >What do they say is the heat produced by hydrogen recombination? On >separation, the hydrogen atom electron cloud expands thus trapping ZPE. On >recombination, the hydrogen atom electron cloud contracts releasing ZPE. > >103 cal/gram mole dissociation energy I have a figure of 4.478 eV / molecule H2, which equates to 103200 cal/g.mole. > >109,000 cal/gram mole recombination emission energy Where do you get this figure? [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 17:09:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA20310; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 17:08:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 17:08:36 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981101113751.008e73e0@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 11:37:51 +1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re: Rife machine building information required Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"1qpTZ.0.Gz4.JIxEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7406 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com HI ALL I have recieved a request from a net surfer who wants some information on how to build a rife machine. I do not have details is there anyone at there who is able to help this person his email address is as below Danny Mayman Geoff http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 17:16:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA24131; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 17:15:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 17:15:56 -0800 Message-ID: <363BB59A.987CFA38@network-one.com> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:12:58 -0600 From: Gene Marlin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CIA? This is for you! References: <1.5.4.32.19981031215445.00e35648@popd.ix.netcom.com> <363BCFCA.383F@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"P0UmS3.0.zu5.BPxEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7407 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I, uhh, sense that this topic is one I should *not* get involved in, but here goes. One of my primary objections to UFO conspiracy enthusiasts is how we could extract anything useful from a downed extraterrestrial craft. It would likely be far beyond anything we know, though perhaps, if we were lucky, comprehend the basic theory behind the design. But the aircraft we build run off the Bernoulli principle, and simple chemical reactions. How could something as advanced as a starship apply to our primitive creations? To re-build a UFO would be like giving an ice age tool worker a downed F-16 and expecting him to build his own. All of this is assuming that the extraterrestrials either have no 'black box' on their craft, or are not interested in answering a mayday. Would they really allow their own 'people' to fall into the hands of the barbarian humans? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 17:36:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA29645; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 17:35:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 17:35:31 -0800 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CIA? This is for you! Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 01:35:27 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3642b96c.113225786@24.192.1.20> References: <1.5.4.32.19981031215445.00e35648@popd.ix.netcom.com> <363BCFCA.383F@tiac.net> <363BB59A.987CFA38@network-one.com> In-Reply-To: <363BB59A.987CFA38@network-one.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lz97_3.0.2F7.ZhxEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7408 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:12:58 -0600, Gene Marlin wrote: >I, uhh, sense that this topic is one I should *not* get involved in, but here >goes. > >One of my primary objections to UFO conspiracy enthusiasts is how we could extract >anything useful from a downed extraterrestrial craft. It would likely be far >beyond anything we know, though perhaps, if we were lucky, comprehend the basic >theory behind the design. But the aircraft we build run off the Bernoulli [snip] Why do you think the advanced propulsion systems workshop was started at NASA? They know the things work, they just don't know how, so they fish among the general population, hoping for a theory that at least vaguely resembles what they have in their hands. Short sighted really, because many ideas are born only after seeing reality. By denying the general populace access to the materials, they also severely limit the ideas that get presented, thus restricting their own progress. I think they underestimate the ability of people to cooperate when the chips are down. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 18:18:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA06021; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 18:17:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 18:17:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199811010217.VAA12545@express.globetrotter.net> From: "Patrick Tremblay" To: Subject: collapsing fields Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:19:15 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wnBWg1.0._T1.wIyEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7409 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi all, I got this from MPG OUTLET: EMF COLLECTOR Collect the wasted EMF energy from your existing motors and transformers. Most people don't know that the collapsing electromagnetic field on all motors and transformers is wasted energy. Learn how to recapture and feed this energy back into the input or battery system. As much as 2/3 of the energy that is wasted may be reclaimed. 3X over-unity motor patent included. Instructions and schematics. #30-011 $29.95 Is it true that in an ordinary coupling transformer, with 90 degrees phase angle, is it true that the collapsing fields are wasted and that some energy can be recovered. what do you think ? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 19:48:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA30986; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:46:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:46:42 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981101035342.00e5d7bc@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 22:53:42 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: CIA? This is for you! Resent-Message-ID: <"JcnrL1.0.4a7.YczEs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7410 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi; At 07:04 PM 10/31/98 -0800, you wrote: >Dennis C. Lee wrote: > > > >> >The claims that the Stealth F-117 and B2's use electrogravitation are >> >simply >> >absurd. These are quite conventional aircraft with conventional engines >> >and aerodynamics and flight behaviors. >> >> Seismic earthquake sensors detected on of these things fly all the way >> around the world at 5000 MPH (as I recall) without stopping for gas. It >> can't be anything but TTBrown stuff. > >Seismic sensor detected high speed aircraft indeed, but the sightings >do not match either the F-117 or the B2, neither of which would hold >together at such speeds. A field effect may repel turbulance if not create a plasma vacuum layer. >You say it 'can't be anything but', however the majority of evidence >shows that there is no TTBronwn effect at all. That's because nobody knows how to determine mass chord values to tune the electrodes to the field. >The high speed aircraft has been sighted, and its neither the F-117 nor >the B2. The sighting describes a triangular delta wing lifting body >about the size of an F-111. Some evidence suggests the use of pulse >detonation wave engines, not electrogravitics. What gave the impression of a pulse detonation wave engine? >Given this, your argument falls apart, the evidence does not appear to >support your argument. Well, Tom Valone wrote a book about this and he put alot of reseach into it. He thought it was a TTBrown device where the ionized exhaust gas becomes an electrode. The point was that a gas turbine engine isn't a possibility for this level of performance. >> >There may well be hidden, very advanced designs, but the ideas that this >> >technology is in the 117's and B2's is faulty. Your not going to change >> >large scale behaviors with weak and faulty data. Did you see Tom Valone's book, "Electrogravitics"? >> Those aircraft are for show. There are designs we got from aliens that are >> the real McCoy. It's not my data that's the problem, it's your study skills. > >Really? Check the evidence on the sightings of the SR-75 and XR-7 >aircraft. How does one do that? Dennis Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 20:43:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA18101; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 20:41:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 20:41:57 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981101044844.00e3b630@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 23:48:44 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: The CF answer? (was Re: A cheaper 3rd suggestion with an experiment protocol. Palladium: 29 isotope states, 6 stable.) Resent-Message-ID: <"tvHyQ.0.lQ4.LQ-Es"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7411 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi; At 12:37 AM 11/1/98 GMT, you wrote: >On Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:19:30 -0500, Dennis C. Lee wrote: > >>Hi; >> >>What do they say is the heat produced by hydrogen recombination? On >>separation, the hydrogen atom electron cloud expands thus trapping ZPE. On >>recombination, the hydrogen atom electron cloud contracts releasing ZPE. >> >>103 cal/gram mole dissociation energy > >I have a figure of 4.478 eV / molecule H2, which equates to 103200 >cal/g.mole. 1976 Norton Encyclopedia 5th edition pg. 1311 The at rest state of hydrogen is atomic hydrogen, not molecular H2. The atomic hydrogen potential energy is evaluated. Look at definition of dissociation energy really carefully. >>109,000 cal/gram mole recombination emission energy > >Where do you get this figure? Physical Chemistry 1965 by E.A.Moelwyn-Hughes of Cambridge. Pergamon Press, London p. 417 Dennis Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 20:52:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA22563; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 20:49:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 20:49:18 -0800 From: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca Message-Id: <199811010449.XAA18007@juliet.its.uwo.ca> X-Sender: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 00:26:45 -0500 To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: HANS COLER - 1946 report (B.I.O.S) Cc: Fred Walter , "Kurush K Mistry" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"UD9ci1.0.LW5.EX-Es"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7412 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This report as discussed in this months NEXUS is available in both zip and html format. Most interesting... "THE INVENTION OF HANS COLER, RELATING TO AN ALLEGED NEW SOURCE OF POWER", B.I.O.S. report 1946 http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3752/indexe.html Chris Gupta From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 20:58:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA25364; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 20:56:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 20:56:56 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981101050426.00e30584@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 00:04:26 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: collapsing fields Resent-Message-ID: <"B8Lo22.0.EC6.Ne-Es"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7413 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi; I say, if you are interested and enthusiastic about the idea, take the risk and spend 30 bucks. I can't really tell from the description here what approach is used to collect the energy. But, it seems to make sense. Check it out, enjoy the adventure and/of discovery. Dennis At 09:19 PM 10/31/98 -0600, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I got this from MPG OUTLET: > >EMF COLLECTOR >Collect the wasted EMF energy from your existing motors and transformers. >Most people don't know that the collapsing electromagnetic field on all >motors and transformers is wasted energy. Learn how to recapture and feed >this energy back into the input or battery system. As much as 2/3 of the >energy that is wasted may be reclaimed. 3X over-unity motor patent >included. Instructions and schematics. >#30-011 $29.95 > >Is it true that in an ordinary coupling transformer, with 90 degrees phase >angle, is it true that the collapsing fields are wasted and that some >energy can be recovered. > >what do you think ? > > > Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 21:02:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA27008; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:01:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:01:16 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981101050822.00e61d68@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 00:08:22 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: CIA? This is for you! Resent-Message-ID: <"6w-oF2.0.sb6.Si-Es"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7414 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi; At 01:35 AM 11/1/98 GMT, you wrote: >On Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:12:58 -0600, Gene Marlin wrote: >>I, uhh, sense that this topic is one I should *not* get involved in, but here >>goes. >> >>One of my primary objections to UFO conspiracy enthusiasts is how we could extract >>anything useful from a downed extraterrestrial craft. It would likely be far >>beyond anything we know, though perhaps, if we were lucky, comprehend the basic >>theory behind the design. But the aircraft we build run off the Bernoulli >[snip] >Why do you think the advanced propulsion systems workshop was started >at NASA? They know the things work, they just don't know how, so they >fish among the general population, hoping for a theory that at least >vaguely resembles what they have in their hands. >Short sighted really, because many ideas are born only after seeing >reality. By denying the general populace access to the materials, they >also severely limit the ideas that get presented, thus restricting >their own progress. >I think they underestimate the ability of people to cooperate when the >chips are down. > Either that or they traded something with the aliens in return for their consulting services. They may also underestimate how understanding people can be. Dennis Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 21:17:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA30990; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:16:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:16:36 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981101052345.00e64928@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 00:23:45 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: HANS COLER - 1946 report (B.I.O.S) Resent-Message-ID: <"SN1rL.0.8a7.qw-Es"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7415 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi; I'd say that the report about Coler in IE magazine might be more helpful. Tuning the circuits correctly might take focused, alert, effort. Dennis At 12:26 AM 11/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >This report as discussed in this months NEXUS is available in both zip and >html format. Most interesting... > >"THE INVENTION OF HANS COLER, RELATING TO AN ALLEGED NEW SOURCE OF POWER", >B.I.O.S. report 1946 > > >http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3752/indexe.html > >Chris Gupta > > > Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Oct 31 21:19:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA31221; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:17:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:17:54 -0800 From: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca Message-Id: <199811010517.AAA22133@juliet.its.uwo.ca> X-Sender: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 00:17:49 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Danny Mayman Subject: Re: Rife machine building information required In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981101113751.008e73e0@main.murray.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"0sMI13.0.ld7.2y-Es"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7416 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Details for construction are available from James Bare: http://www.rt66.com/~rifetech/ Chris Gupta At 11:37 AM 11/1/98 +1000, GEOFF EGEL wrote: >HI ALL >I have recieved a request from a net surfer who wants some information on >how to build a rife machine. >I do not have details is there anyone at there who is able to help this >person > >his email address is as below > >Danny Mayman > >Geoff > >http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 >Solaris searching for natures energy sources. > >Geoff Egel >18 Sturt Street >Loxton 5333 >South Australia >Australia > >Phone (08) (8584 5201) >Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time >(Monday - Saturday) >Central Australian time >others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. > >Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers >