technology : Pinching polymers

It was 14 AWG THHN romex. He claims he took a new box = of wire=20 that he had just opened. Which by the way is approximately 250 feet of = wire,=20 bifilar wound into a coil with an air core diameter of approximately 6 = inches.=20 He took one end of the romex, the one nearest the center of the coil, = and=20 connected the two wires together. He then took the other end and connected = a=20 plug that he could insert into a standard 15 amp 120 Vac socket.

He claims that when he plugged the "coil" = into the=20 wall outlet, the box of wire instantly jumped off the ground about three = or four=20 feet into the air. Now I personally unloaded many of those boxes of wire = from=20 the truck, and as I recall, they weighed probably 20 to 30 pounds.

Sounds very similar to what Brown observed with the X-Ray tube.

Rick

>>> cbh@bigfoot.com 11/16/00 07:51AM=20 >>>
Anybody know, offhand, what type of power was required to = drive=20 X-Ray
tubes popular in the 20's? This could be key as to what Brown = used=20 in
later experiments.

--=_C992EA86.29482377-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Nov 16 08:28:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA31819; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 08:28:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 08:28:11 -0800 Message-ID: <002a01c04fa9$b8c10a20$3ee5b5d0@a9o0z0> From: "Alik S" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Gravity Capacitor, HVpowersupply Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 08:46:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"p8Co03.0.0n7.Qi05w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17482 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Nice pair of power supplies on ebay, someone should rescue them: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=495421848 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Nov 16 08:28:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA19884; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 08:27:19 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 08:27:19 -0800 (PST) From: "David Rosignoli" Sender: drdaveor@enter.net Reply-to: drdaveor@enter.net To: "James Owen Batchelor" , freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:26:49 +500 Subject: Re: [FG]: My Grav-cap Works! X-Mailer: DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway 2.1t, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <3a140ac9.6031.0@enter.net> X-User-Info: 192.91.146.35 Resent-Message-ID: <"yDLyx3.0.Ys4.Th05w"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17481 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com 5 grams? Did the whole thing weigh 202 grams? That's 2.47% weight loss. When you get it up on your website, can you post photographs of what your setup looks like. I'm of the opinion that this effect should be experimented with until we've tried every reasonable variation on it. No more hand waving arguments on not doing it. Just think, if we stop experimenting with this thing, and it works, shame on us. With this new data, even more promising still. Just take one step at a time. >I contructed a GC, of 10 layers, five postive and five negative. Plates aligned, I charged it to 2000 Volts with MINIMAX2 from Information Unlimited, and it produced an upwards thrust of about 5 grams. I wasn't planning on going public with this until I got better results, but what the hell........... What the hell is right! >Dielectric was normal writing paper, plus black polyethylene bin liner to up the breakdown rating. I put the whole thing inside a hardback book weighing 202 grams, placed it on an analogue kitchen scale and charged. Within 1 second, the reading was evident. It will not lift its own weight though - must be compressed together for thrust to manifest. Please, pictures are worth a thousand words. >I did wonder if the GC was dead as a project, until this emerged. What have I let myself in for......................? A lot of sleepless nights, that's what. :-) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Nov 16 09:05:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA10343; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 09:04:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 09:04:30 -0800 Message-ID: <3A141369.93BAE3A6@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 19:03:37 +0200 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg Subject: Re: [FG]: My Grav-cap Works! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GPnpE3.0.WX2.UE15w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17483 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi James, It appears you already have very good result. I urge you document the device and the experiment to the finest detail. This is VERY important. Improving the effect is important after somebody duplicate your result. Optimizing the effect by sensitive arrangement only complicate the duplication of results. From my experience, I never could improve some anomalous result that I obtained. effort should be made to improve reliability and reproducibility. Of course increas ing the magnitude of the effect may improve measurements and can rule out side effects, but you should NOT indefinitely seek improvement and not disappoint when no further improvement is available. James Owen Batchelor wrote: > > I'm probably stirring up a hornets nest, but here goes. The following data is not available on EclipseLab (my site) yet, but will be in a few days......... > > I contructed a GC, of 10 layers, five postive and five negative. Plates aligned, I charged it to 2000 Volts with MINIMAX2 from Information Unlimited, and it produced an upwards thrust of about 5 grams. I wasn't planning on going public with this until I got better results, but what the hell........... > > Dielectric was normal writing paper, plus black polyethylene bin liner to up the breakdown rating. I put the whole thing inside a hardback book weighing 202 grams, placed it on an analogue kitchen scale and charged. Within 1 second, the reading was evid ent. It will not lift its own weight though - must be compressed together for thrust to manifest. > > I did wonder if the GC was dead as a project, until this emerged. What have I let myself in for......................? Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Nov 16 09:17:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA13844; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 09:16:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 09:16:23 -0800 Message-ID: <3A141642.4A7BE958@groupz.net> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:15:46 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siWpfcUINhQ,x-ns2r2d09OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: My Grav-cap Works! References: <3A141369.93BAE3A6@verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UQeI-3.0.1O3.ZP15w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17484 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Also...DO NOT !!!!...take apart the one you have working...try making another one and see if it works.....there may be something that you did to the one you have, that made it work...that you will have trouble finding...unless you keep the working one like it is.....steve hamdi ucar wrote: > > Hi James, > > It appears you already have very good result. I urge you document the device and the experiment to the finest detail. This is VERY important. Improving the effect is important after somebody duplicate your result. > > Optimizing the effect by sensitive arrangement only complicate the duplication of results. From my experience, I never could improve some anomalous result that I obtained. effort should be made to improve reliability and reproducibility. Of course incre asing the magnitude of the effect may improve measurements and can rule out side effects, but you should NOT indefinitely seek improvement and not disappoint when no further improvement is available. > > James Owen Batchelor wrote: > > > > I'm probably stirring up a hornets nest, but here goes. The following data is not available on EclipseLab (my site) yet, but will be in a few days......... > > > > I contructed a GC, of 10 layers, five postive and five negative. Plates aligned, I charged it to 2000 Volts with MINIMAX2 from Information Unlimited, and it produced an upwards thrust of about 5 grams. I wasn't planning on going public with this until I got better results, but what the hell........... > > > > Dielectric was normal writing paper, plus black polyethylene bin liner to up the breakdown rating. I put the whole thing inside a hardback book weighing 202 grams, placed it on an analogue kitchen scale and charged. Within 1 second, the reading was ev ident. It will not lift its own weight though - must be compressed together for thrust to manifest. > > > > I did wonder if the GC was dead as a project, until this emerged. What have I let myself in for......................? > Regards, > > hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Nov 16 10:57:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA09058; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:56:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:56:02 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:55:32 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: James Owen Batchelor cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: My Grav-cap Works! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"vRXYv1.0.ND2.1t25w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17485 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 16 Nov 2000, James Owen Batchelor wrote: > I contructed a GC, of 10 layers, five postive and five negative. Plates > aligned, I charged it to 2000 Volts with MINIMAX2 from Information > Unlimited, and it produced an upwards thrust of about 5 grams. I wasn't > planning on going public with this until I got better results, but what > the hell........... Cool! Was this with slotted plates? tin? Gotta try hanging it sideways as a pendulum. Verify that it isn't caused by the scale becoming charged or something. For that matter, put it on the scale while on top of a styrofoam cup, just to get it far from the scale's mechanism. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Nov 16 11:03:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA09648; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:01:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:01:11 -0800 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001116083710.0094fa40@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 08:57:04 -0600 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Gravity Capacitor, the "last straw!" In-Reply-To: <3a130e9a.1568.0@enter.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"tDEiu1.0.LM2.rx25w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17486 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Group: 1) has anybody gotten on this list gotten any positive results from any "gravity cap"? A flutter of movement on the bench top will be enough. and if so 2) What type of measurements can be made to determine the nature of its behavior? If there is an effect on the gravitational field we should be able to measure it. If there is no effect of the gravitational field we should not call it a gravity cap. It is entirely possible that if this device provides a usable force then it is using internal propulsion at a molecular level... In this case it would be more accurate to name it "electric rocket" There are also some free energy claims here. Should this gadget be able to provide a force without the pulsed DC (charge and go) then merely measuring the force does define any amount of free energy. It must be made to do real work. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Nov 16 11:32:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA15425; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:31:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:31:58 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [162.39.245.223] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Gravity Capacitor, the "last straw!" Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 19:31:16 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Nov 2000 19:31:16.0054 (UTC) FILETIME=[C9681760:01C05003] Resent-Message-ID: <"Xa-5j3.0.wm3.jO35w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17487 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com My thought has always been that the grav-cap is more propulsion device than anti-gravity device as it appears to provide a directional thrust more than a repulsion of mass. It is difficult to apply terminology to the effect with out working caps. Now that James has a working cap perhaps we can replicate his work and begin to develop a "jargon" all our own. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Nov 16 11:37:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA16115; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:36:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:36:38 -0800 Message-ID: <20001116192911.8055.qmail@web3806.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:29:11 -0800 (PST) From: micah lloyd Subject: Re: [FG]: My Grav-cap Works! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"dIQTS.0.dx3.5T35w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17488 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi could this weight loss be ionised air movement? What did you do diffrent? micah. --- William Beaty wrote: > On Thu, 16 Nov 2000, James Owen Batchelor wrote: > > > I contructed a GC, of 10 layers, five postive and > five negative. Plates > > aligned, I charged it to 2000 Volts with MINIMAX2 > from Information > > Unlimited, and it produced an upwards thrust of > about 5 grams. I wasn't > > planning on going public with this until I got > better results, but what > > the hell........... > > Cool! Was this with slotted plates? tin? > > Gotta try hanging it sideways as a pendulum. > Verify that it isn't caused > by the scale becoming charged or something. > > For that matter, put it on the scale while on top of > a styrofoam cup, just > to get it far from the scale's mechanism. > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) > ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty > SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com > http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science > projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L > taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Nov 16 11:51:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA01398; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:49:13 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:49:13 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [162.39.245.223] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: X-Ray Power Suply requirements from the 1920s Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 19:46:12 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Nov 2000 19:46:12.0874 (UTC) FILETIME=[DFF3F6A0:01C05005] Resent-Message-ID: <"-dlFX.0.bL.pe35w"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17489 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Should be easy enough to replicate. anyone for a trip to home depot! I remember on occasion having a 100' extension cord in a roll laying on the concrete floor of my garage, plugged into an outlet and powering a compressor. The compressor would kick on only a couple of times before burning up the coil, identical cords stretched out so as not to be coiled would work indefinately without incident. I used to keep one of these coils with the insulation all melted together around to show my boys how not to use an extension cord so take care not to burn down the house. Colin >From: "Rick Dunn" >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: , , > >Subject: Re: [FG]: X-Ray Power Suply requirements from the 1920s >Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 09:21:18 -0700 > >Slightly off topic, I recall when I was just out of high school, I worked >for a electrical company doing residential wiring on newly constructed >homes. The journeyman electrician, that I was helping, told me about >something he did with a box of standard household wiring. > >It was 14 AWG THHN romex. He claims he took a new box of wire that he had >just opened. Which by the way is approximately 250 feet of wire, bifilar >wound into a coil with an air core diameter of approximately 6 inches. He >took one end of the romex, the one nearest the center of the coil, and >connected the two wires together. He then took the other end and connected >a plug that he could insert into a standard 15 amp 120 Vac socket. > >He claims that when he plugged the "coil" into the wall outlet, the box of >wire instantly jumped off the ground about three or four feet into the air. >Now I personally unloaded many of those boxes of wire from the truck, and >as I recall, they weighed probably 20 to 30 pounds. > >Sounds very similar to what Brown observed with the X-Ray tube. > >Rick > > >>> cbh@bigfoot.com 11/16/00 07:51AM >>> >Anybody know, offhand, what type of power was required to drive X-Ray >tubes popular in the 20's? This could be key as to what Brown used in >later experiments. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Nov 16 12:14:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA23666; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:11:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:11:26 -0800 From: "David Rosignoli" Sender: drdaveor@enter.net Reply-to: drdaveor@enter.net To: micah lloyd , freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 14:53:39 +500 Subject: Re: [FG]: My Grav-cap Works! X-Mailer: DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway 2.1t, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <3a143b43.1699.0@enter.net> X-User-Info: 192.91.146.35 Resent-Message-ID: <"DCmdo1.0.bn5.jz35w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17490 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com How? It was enclosed inside of a book. I think that what may be more likely is some kind of interaction with the leading wires feeding the capacitor. But more information is needed to reach any conclusions. > Hi could this weight loss be ionised air movement? >What did you do diffrent? >micah. >--- William Beaty wrote: >> On Thu, 16 Nov 2000, James Owen Batchelor wrote: >> >> > I contructed a GC, of 10 layers, five postive and >> five negative. Plates >> > aligned, I charged it to 2000 Volts with MINIMAX2 >> from Information >> > Unlimited, and it produced an upwards thrust of >> about 5 grams. I wasn't >> > planning on going public with this until I got >> better results, but what >> > the hell........... >> >> Cool! Was this with slotted plates? tin? >> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Nov 16 14:41:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA04922; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 14:38:53 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 14:38:53 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: smtp2.ihug.co.nz: Host 203-109-144-202.akl.ihugultra.co.nz [203.109.144.202] claimed to be ihug.co.nz Message-ID: <3A145C9A.B9BEEA6F@ihug.co.nz> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 11:15:55 +1300 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Gravity Capacitor, the "last straw!" References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8EviM.0.hC1.l765w"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17491 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In Gerry Vassilatos's Lost Science he describes something similar to the grav cap but it's a part of Brown's research. But Vassilator? As R and S are close together it does seem like a typo... but who can be sure? William Beaty wrote: > On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 stevend@entrenet.com wrote: > > > Original info This new info > > ---------------------------------- ----------------------------------- > > Patent name: Electric Rocket Patent name: A Method of and an ... > > US patent British patent > > boy sold out to MOBIL T.T. Brown sold to US Army > > built as an attempt to make never heard of this regarding > > Fizeau's condensor T.T. Brown > > > > Plus, Bill, you pointed out some other things below. One mistake, > > I can understand. This is an about face. > > I thought that this new correspondence blew the original "plans" out of > the water. If this Brown patent was the origin of the Electric Rocket, > then those capacitor plans are just a highly distorted version (possibly > distorted as they spread as a story; by word of mouth among fringe fans > without being written down.) Maybe Kennedy never obtained any large > thrust. The slotted foil plates could be a distortion of the last drawing > in his patent, which shows a *rotating* motor based on radial fins. If > so, then the whole thing is bogus, and any successful replications either > accidentally stumbled upon a more powerful effect, or they are simply > hoaxes. > > But you may be right. Brown supposedly discovered the phenomoenon while > working with X-ray power supplies (and his patent drawings even include an > X-ray tube for some reason.) The "Electric Rocket" story has features > which indicate that it could come from an entirely different source. > > But still, why did Mr. Kennedy do an about face? *Who* originally said to > use tin, and to make a slotted array? *Who* said to put tabs on every > plate, rather than driving the stack only from the ends? What plans was > Kennedy working with? Obviously there are earlier "plans" we've never > seen. > > In my opinion the problems come about when people try to act mysterious > rather than being blatently honest. Why say "try this, and XXX will > happen", when instead you can say "I performed this on such and such a > date, and I saw XXX happen"? Or if you never performed the experiment, > say something like this: "I heard that if you do such-and-such, XXX will > happen." But then you won't look so powerful and mysterious. > > And is Gerry Vassilator actually Gerry Vassilatos of BORDERLANDS? > But "Vassilator" is listed in Bob Stirniman's electrograv doc as a gravity > researcher. > > > By the way, thanks for posting this info. This patent is extremely > > valuable! > > Thank Hansch, Loop@speed.a2000.nl, who says he scanned and posted those > sheets. > > BTW, just to clear up any misunderstandings, it was me who transcribed the > Kennedy paper into graphic diagrams for Keelynet, and added "fig1, fig2 > etc" labels to the drawings. This was back around 1995, when 100K GIFs at > 2400 baud were ridiculous. I had photocopies identical to those scanned > images, but they lacked the diagram showing the staggered slots. > > I just searched Google for Brown 300,311 gravity, and found an old > Keelynet file BROWN3.ASC which contains the text of the patent. It's > apparantly been online for ages (but without the diagrams.) > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Nov 16 16:54:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA27016; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:54:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:54:01 -0800 Message-ID: <000701c0502f$d65a48e0$183dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: My Grav-cap Works! Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 19:46:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"4sOwD.0.hb6.d685w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17492 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bravo, James! Congratulations on your initial results! I look forward to your further work on this. I am also glad to see that BillB and a few others have offered some good suggestions for artifact elimination. That is truly one of the most terrifying parts; running your work through the artifact removal protocol. From experience, I can say that the one artifact that has caused me the most trouble with electro-gravity has been electrostatic forces from lead-in wires. One good way to eliminate this factor is to try draping or supporting your lead in wires in as many different directions and geometries as possible. If your effect remains consistent, then you've cleared a big hurdle. Also watch out for surface charging on things like the desktop or the balance due to charge deposition from stray corona ions. The advice here is to ground, ground, ground, and shield, shield, shield. Keep your HV supply as far away from the experiment as possible. Best of luck, and again, thank you for your results. NR ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Beaty" To: "James Owen Batchelor" Cc: Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: My Grav-cap Works! > On Thu, 16 Nov 2000, James Owen Batchelor wrote: > > > I contructed a GC, of 10 layers, five postive and five negative. Plates > > aligned, I charged it to 2000 Volts with MINIMAX2 from Information > > Unlimited, and it produced an upwards thrust of about 5 grams. I wasn't > > planning on going public with this until I got better results, but what > > the hell........... > > Cool! Was this with slotted plates? tin? > > Gotta try hanging it sideways as a pendulum. Verify that it isn't caused > by the scale becoming charged or something. > > For that matter, put it on the scale while on top of a styrofoam cup, just > to get it far from the scale's mechanism. > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Nov 16 18:27:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA23989; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 18:25:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 18:25:46 -0800 Message-ID: <003801c0503d$b8ede740$0201a8c0@m> From: "Michael Randall" To: Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 18:25:58 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"Lcdh41.0.gs5.gS95w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17493 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: My Grav-cap Works! James, What did you use for the metal plate material? Dimensions of the GC? Did you attach the plates together with any binding material? Regards, Michael Randall ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Owen Batchelor" To: Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 2:21 PM Subject: [FG]: My Grav-cap Works! > I'm probably stirring up a hornets nest, but here goes. The following data is not available on EclipseLab (my site) yet, but will be in a few days......... > > > I contructed a GC, of 10 layers, five postive and five negative. Plates aligned, I charged it to 2000 Volts with MINIMAX2 from Information Unlimited, and it produced an upwards thrust of about 5 grams. I wasn't planning on going public with this until I got better results, but what the hell........... > > Dielectric was normal writing paper, plus black polyethylene bin liner to up the breakdown rating. I put the whole thing inside a hardback book weighing 202 grams, placed it on an analogue kitchen scale and charged. Within 1 second, the reading was evident. It will not lift its own weight though - must be compressed together for thrust to manifest. > > I did wonder if the GC was dead as a project, until this emerged. What have I let myself in for......................? > > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 17 00:59:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA26708; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 00:59:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 00:59:08 -0800 Message-ID: <002201c05030$68fc6e80$0201a8c0@m> From: "Michael Randall" To: ":" Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:50:41 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"W1jKM3.0._W6.RDF5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17494 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: My Grav-cap Works! James, What did you use for the metal plate material? Dimensions of the GC? Did you attach the plates together with any binding material? Regards, Michael Randall ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Owen Batchelor" To: Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 2:21 PM Subject: [FG]: My Grav-cap Works! > I'm probably stirring up a hornets nest, but here goes. The following data is not available on EclipseLab (my site) yet, but will be in a few days......... > > > I contructed a GC, of 10 layers, five postive and five negative. Plates aligned, I charged it to 2000 Volts with MINIMAX2 from Information Unlimited, and it produced an upwards thrust of about 5 grams. I wasn't planning on going public with this until I got better results, but what the hell........... > > Dielectric was normal writing paper, plus black polyethylene bin liner to up the breakdown rating. I put the whole thing inside a hardback book weighing 202 grams, placed it on an analogue kitchen scale and charged. Within 1 second, the reading was evident. It will not lift its own weight though - must be compressed together for thrust to manifest. > > I did wonder if the GC was dead as a project, until this emerged. What have I let myself in for......................? > > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 17 03:44:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA32088; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 03:44:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 03:44:03 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 11:43:24 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [FG]: My Grav-cap Works! X-Sender-Ip: 143.210.85.113 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FKFsf2.0.Hr7.3eH5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17495 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com it produced an upwards thrust of about 5 grams. I wasn't >> planning on going public with this until I got better results, but what >> the hell........... > >Cool! Was this with slotted plates? tin? It was Aluminium foil, normal gauge. The plates were individual segments of foil, linked by strips of foil. Like the 1920s one. Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 17 03:45:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA32708; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 03:45:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 03:45:47 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 11:45:33 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [FG]: My Grav-cap Works! X-Sender-Ip: 143.210.85.113 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bFtx82.0.z-7.gfH5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17496 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com -- On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:29:11 micah lloyd wrote: > Hi could this weight loss be ionised air movement? >What did you do diffrent? >micah. Not a chance of ion wind - the GC was put inside a fat book to press the layers together - and that was only because I was lazy and couldn't ber bothered to build wooden end pieces. In short, I wanted to do a "quick 'n' dirty" experiment with what I had. James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 17 04:29:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA11693; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 04:28:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 04:28:49 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 12:28:06 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Sender-Ip: 143.210.85.113 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oGOi13.0.Ys2.1II5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17497 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Grav-cap worries Although this probably goes against common wisdom, I'm going to say a little abouty myself to explain why my experimental data on the GC may come across as patchy. I live in the UK, and study at Leicester University, living in halls. Due to the financial situation of students, I have about $35 a week to live on, which makes life very hard. I don't have a digicam or webcam to take pictures with, and without a reliabl e chemical camera, It is going to be very hard to provide photos too. I scare the hell out of my housemates with weight-reduction and electrostatic wizardry, but it's still very tight here. I apologise to all about this, but things here are quite nasty indeed. I will, in the next couple of days, post all I know to the EclipseLab for you to look at. Its worse because I know we all want this to work, and I hate to disappoint people - especiall y as Dave Rosignoli asked so nicely for the pictures ;) All I can offer is that I am hugely indebted to you all for your warmth and support, and I will endeavour to report this on http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/EclipseLab as accurately as possible in the next few days. My very deepest thanks, James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 17 04:30:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA13057; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 04:30:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 04:30:45 -0800 From: stevend@entrenet.com Message-ID: <20001117123003.325.qmail@entrenet.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 07:30:03 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"e5V4o3.0.lB3.rJI5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17498 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: My Grav-cap Works! Hi James and all, You said that the dielectric was normal writing papers with a layer of polyethlene bin liner. How thick was the layer in total? (i.e. how much bin liner?) Also, was the book bound shut tightly? Did you tape it shut? Here's a summary of what we have so far, taken from the emails: Info gathered so far from the threads ------------------------------------- The Device: 5 layers positive, 5 negative. Dielectric was the paper that the foil was glued to, plus an additional layer of polyethlene bin liner to beef up the breakdown level. Dielectric was normal writing paper. All the plates were charged. It was Aluminium foil, normal gauge. The plates were individual segments of foil, linked by strips of foil. Like the 1920s one. Charged using: MINIMAX2 from Information Unlimited ($14.95) Voltage: The effect was instantaneous, and the PSU is supposed to supply 2kV, but this may be wrong. Current: Can't measure, but must be low microamp range. How was thrust measured: Aligned all the layers, then put them in the center of a hardback book weighing 202 grams. I put it on the scales, and the whole thing weighed maybe 210grams. I really expected nothing to happen. I have an analog kitchen scales which can measure in 1/2 gram increments. Results: When the power was on, I got it down to 205 grams, though I could have done more by on-off switching and using the pendulum effect. It produced an upwards thrust of about 5 grams. The book that it was wedged in lost around 2.5% weight when the baby GC was charged with 2000 volts. Placed it on an analogue kitchen scale and charged. Within 1 second, the reading was evident. It will not lift its own weight though - must be compressed together for thrust to manifest. Unfortunately, I'm running on a shoestring here, with no real way to tell what the capacitance of my layers are - hard to even determine voltage. Cheers, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------- Steven Dufresne stevend@entrenet.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 17 04:46:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA17922; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 04:46:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 04:46:12 -0800 Message-ID: <003901c05094$23190cc0$0dff08d0@default> From: "Larry Canada" To: "freenrg-l" Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 05:44:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01C05059.75ADA6C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"-_dEV2.0.sN4.KYI5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17499 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: grav cap This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C05059.75ADA6C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you want to see real thrust, watch a welding lead as the arc is = struck and then released. With 300 to 600 amps, portions of the lead = will jump clear of the shop's concrete floor.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C05059.75ADA6C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

If you want to see real thrust, watch a welding = lead as the arc is struck and then released. With 300 to 600 = amps,=20 portions of the lead will jump clear of the shop's concrete=20 floor.

------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C05059.75ADA6C0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 17 05:24:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA29164; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 05:24:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 05:24:07 -0800 Message-ID: <3A1530C9.1006EB94@enter.net> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 08:21:13 -0500 From: David Rosignoli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: finalheaven@angelfire.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-cap worries References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1EZJ7.0.b77.s5J5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17500 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com James Owen Batchelor wrote: > > I live in the UK, and study at Leicester University, living in halls. Due to the financial situation of students, I have about $35 a week to live on, which makes life very hard. I don't have a digicam or webcam to take pictures with, and without a relia ble chemical camera, It is going to be very hard to provide photos too. I scare the hell out of my housemates with weight-reduction and electrostatic wizardry, but it's still very tight here. > > I apologise to all about this, but things here are quite nasty indeed. I will, in the next couple of days, post all I know to the EclipseLab for you to look at. Its worse because I know we all want this to work, and I hate to disappoint people - especia lly as Dave Rosignoli asked so nicely for the pictures ;) I'm just letting my emotions get the better of me. I certainly don't want you to live beyond your means. You're doing a great job keeping us posted. I certainly understand being a poor college student trying to do electronics on a shoestring (been there, done that). Don't worry about the photos. Just try to describe it as best as you can. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 17 10:27:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA12848; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:25:55 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:25:49 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:22:50 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"WCaUk.0.-73.gWN5w"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17501 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: New version Conf. Technology (fwd) Here's an invention announcement. I don't know any more about it than what's given below. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 06:10:52 EST From: JCarey9622@aol.com To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New version Conf. Technology Presented by: Confidential Technologies, Inc. R&D Our Motto: CREATE, COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE, and COMPLETE. Product: REVOLUTIONARY NEW Automobile, Environmental. And Space Inventions MISSION STATEMENT. The inventors and founders of Confidential Technologies, Inc. desire to work with one or more corporations to further the development of what we believe to be very valuable new inventions that may have strong commercial potential. We are prepared to present further information to potential participants in this new venture. We believe the products that we have can dramatically improve everyone's quality of life if properly developed, manufactured, and marketed. We would like to express our gratitude by thanking Mr. Hal Fox, Ph.D., who is a World recognized scientist, engineer and technical writer for developing the format and writing the majority of this presentation. Mr. Fox is the CEO of The Institute For New Energy that is located in Salt Lake City, Utah. We then incorporated a description of our new technology. Please consider the following Information. INTRODUCTION. This world is faced with serious problems of pollution due, in large part, to the primary use of fossil fuels. In our judgment, there is a strong need to develop and market new inventions that can dramatically reduce the use of fossil fuels. We believe we have discovered some answers that may provide a partial solution to some of this planet's problems. Several years of self-funded very difficult private research and experimentation has produced new inventions that are being developed for market. They can possibly demonstrate new theories that we hope will advance science and greatly increase our present day knowledge and understanding. The ultimate goal is to produce clean energy with revolutionary new self contained internally driven units that will not require an external supply and will be far more economical, clean, and far more reliable systems than any now being marketed. By demonstrating the capabilities of these new inventions, we expect to enable the development of additional products. We are not making any claims regarding perpetual motion or antigravity. We are able to develop ALL of these REVOLUTIONARY NEW field propulsion inventions by ourselves, but we will require a considerable amount of engineering and scientific help in certain areas and we will consider professional help to evaluate our products. We also desire to establish a mutually profitable working relationship with carefully selected interested entities that share our desire to bring about positive changes in our society. We are currently considering a very lucrative business arrangement with a manufacturing company in exchange for limited rights to some of our inventions and discoveries. Our primary interest is licensing our new inventions to carefully selected Corporations and government. PRODUCT DEVELOPEMENT We have developed a new process that produced new NATURALLY GENERATED FIELDS that enabled the inventors to develop radical new field Propulsion Systems. These systems are expected to have vast markets in AUTOMOTIVE, SPACE, and a multitude of commercial applications. AUTOMOBILE APPLICATIONS The company has a small prototype of a field propulsion replacement for internal combustion, made from a new metal process that we developed. New prototypes and production models for market will be made primarily from plastic. We also have new air bag designs, and we believe we can develop vastly improved internal combustion platforms. By reducing fuel use, improving performance, reducing emissions and eliminating the need for a catalytic converter. We have an inverter prototype that uses wasted kinetic energy which enables a Motor to triple its work load. It uses standard 110 V power. Such a device can be made portable and self-charging. The system, when developed, is expected to have electric car, residential and commercial applications. Because of rising energy and fuel prices, global warming, and ozone depletion, the inventors believe that the time is correct to commercialize some portions of the developments. SPACE AND MILITARY APPLICATIONS We believe that their are critically important applications that could benefit both space and military systems. Together, we may be able to engineer REVOLUTIONARY NEW SELF CONTAINED power packs for many of these applications. The inventors need experienced help in commercializing proposed systems. We believe the discoveries we have made can open up new fields of endeavor to solve some of the space and military demands, and possible be very cost effective. SUMMARY The inventors have provided the company with a deluge of information and applications. However, they also have provided working prototypes to demonstrate and be evaluated. We would welcome your visit and are prepared to demonstrate one of our prototype systems. Complete details of operation will require the signing of a non-disclosure agreement. Respectfully Submitted, WE MAY HAVE THE ENERGY SOLUTIONS YOU ARE SEEKING. JACK CAREY 1815 Davison Road DIRECT ELECTRONICS Email Jcarey9622@aol.com Flint, MI 48506 Regional Toll free: !- 877-234-2225 or 810-341-1832 Pager: 810-812-4033 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 17 12:26:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA04066; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 12:25:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 12:25:50 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 20:25:27 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Sender-Ip: 143.210.81.28 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_EiC73.0.I_.EHP5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17502 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Website problems I came in to update EclipseLab at 20:23 PM GMT, but the Angelfire server was down. Will try again tomorrow. I WILL get the data uploaded! Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 17 14:00:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA04305; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 13:59:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 13:59:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 13:59:29 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <7b.c41d62c.2746f179@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"3lf6C2.0.431.7fQ5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17503 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: MEG v2.0 build by JL Naudin On Fri, 17 Nov 2000 VCockeram@aol.com wrote: > Jean Louis has come up with some > interesting results. Comments? > > Click here: The MEG v2.0 > build by JL Naudin AC output is 700% of input?!!! At 30KHz. Impressive, since there doesn't seem to be an obvious source of major errors. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 17 14:15:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA08893; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 14:14:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 14:14:30 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 17:13:40 EST To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, newman-l@emachine.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"Y3E4w1.0.UA2.6tQ5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17504 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Difference between Adams and LaFonte Group Motor The difference between the two motors is the LaFonte Group Motor does not change the polarity of the rotor or stator during any part of the motor operation. The torque comes from the rotor being pulled to the ferrite core of the attraction coil with the circuit open. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 17 14:35:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA14503; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 14:35:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 14:35:08 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 14:34:59 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"g8AF31.0.OY3.SAR5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17505 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Musings on Bearden's MEG There's an interesting phenomenon involving pot-core electromagnets (like the Edmund Scientific 500lb-lift magnet run by two D-cells.) Place the polished face of the electromagnet against a polished steel plate. When the magnetic loop closes (with no gaps), the B-field in the steel becomes extremely large, even though the drive current remains the same as when the magnetic loop had an air gap. Put a piece of paper between the magnet and the steel plate being lifted, and the lifting force becomes very small. Even a tiny gap in the magnetic loop can drastically reduce the b-field. In his early writhings, Dr. Aspden mentioned this sort of thing as being a source of O/U. Isn't the MEG based upon this effect? With an "actuator" coil turned off, the "magnetic circuit" in that half of the device is complete. The b-field in the loop might be much higher than usual. Applying a current to the coil would not only oppose the flux in the core and subtract from the total flux, it would also break the "magnetic circuit" and reduce the flux far more than expected. If my thinking is correct, then interesting things would happen only if the b-field of the permanent magnet is far higher than the saturation level of the core material. For example, a steel magnet on a steel core would produce a weak b-field whether the gap was closed or not. With steel PM on steel, closing the gap would not cause a major change in the b-field in the core, and the pickup coil would not produce a large voltage. To produce a large output, we'd want to place a neodymium magnet against an iron core. And we'd want to reduce the air-gap between the magnet and the core as much as possible, perhaps by milling and polishing the facing surfaces. (On the other hand, perhaps mechanical vibration plays a role here, and we'd *want* to leave a tiny air gap which the vibrations could open and close.) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 17 14:50:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA19978; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 14:50:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 14:50:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 14:45:40 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"92Sku2.0.mt4.dOR5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17506 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Musings on Bearden's MEG On Fri, 17 Nov 2000, William Beaty wrote: > In his early writhings, Dr. Aspden mentioned this sort of thing Back then he was *writing*. He hasn't been noticably writhing. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 17 16:04:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA06145; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 16:03:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 16:03:45 -0800 Message-ID: <003501c050f1$f3e9cc60$843dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 18:56:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"60pom2.0.sV1.XTS5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17507 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Re: Musings on Bearden's MEG Gentlemen; I have popped in on JLN's MEG project every few days, and I am anxiously following the story. Still hoping that he or someone can prove my cynicism about electromagnetic O-U wrong, with the MEG. However, here is a question that probably borders on stupid, because it should be very obvious to me but I can't place it. Perhaps some of the electrical engineering guys out there can set me straight: I noticed that on the O-scope images that JLN shows, the current, voltage, and power sine waves are displayed for input and output. What I find odd is that the voltage and current are in phase with each other. Wouldn't one expect to find the V and I out of phase to some degree depending on the inductive and capacitive properties of the circuit? If I recall right, the only circuits this happens in are purely resistive, or have been corrected with added L or C. Maybe tis a minor issue, but the phase relationship could tell us a lot about the operation of this system. Perhaps JLN's scope arbitrarily sets these values in phase, or perhaps they can be aligned manually for easier viewing. NR ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Beaty" To: Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 5:45 PM Subject: [FG]: Re: Musings on Bearden's MEG > On Fri, 17 Nov 2000, William Beaty wrote: > > > In his early writhings, Dr. Aspden mentioned this sort of thing > > Back then he was *writing*. He hasn't been noticably writhing. > > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 17 16:28:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA19871; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 16:26:35 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 16:26:31 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 16:26:05 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2C3Ib3.0.Fs4.soS5w"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17508 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Major error in MEG paper I recall seeing an error in earlier Bearden papers, and it appears in the MEG paper too. In Fig. 4 and Fig. 5 in the MEG paper, the Poynting flow is parallel to the two wires, with only a tiny amount hitting the surface of the wires and being absorbed. But this is purely orthodox physics! Problems arise because the diagram depicts a transmission line, not a load resistor. In a transmission line there is only a small energy-loss caused by finite wire conductivity, since some of the moving electrons are slowed by lattice interactions and must be sped up again. Usually this is depicted as a slight inward tilt of the total energy flow (as mentioned in the quote in REF. 11 in the paper.) Because it tilts inwards, a tiny amount of energy is absorbed by the wires and lost as resistive heating. The rest of the energy proceeds along to the circuit's electrical load. The large "Heaviside component" energy flow is said to be "wasted." But in conventional textbooks, this large flow is simply the main energy flow in the electric circuit! The "wasted" flow is actually energy which is enroute from the power supply to the load. It is not supposed to touch the connecting wires at all. Only when it arrives at an electrical load does it dive inwards. And conversely, at the location of the power supply, it is pouring outwards. In the region between the power supply and the load, the energy flows parallel to the wires, just as expected. Fig. 6 in the MEG paper appears to be backwards. If this diagram is intended to depict the Poynting energy flow, then it should show the arrows radiating outwards from the battery, and directed inwards towards the resistor. (and they should curve, so that each arrow coming out of the battery should join with an arrow which is diving inwards to the surface of the resistor.) Note that in Fig. 6 we could reverse both the polarity of the power supply and also the direction of current, yet the energy-flow arrows would remain unaffected. Negative one times negative one stil gives positive one. This shows that the energy flow does not follow the direction of the electric current. The bright red arrows in Fig. 6 are wrong; they are not electric current "i". Instead they are energy flow p, or i x v. Flip the battery, and the current "i" will flip too, yet those bright red arrows still point away from the battery and towards the resistor. The diagram should depict small black arrows for "i", and large red arrows for energy flow "p." To remove confusion, "i" should be reversed, so there is no question than "i" and "p" are two different entities. Do I totally misunderstand the nature of these diagrams? I suspect that the authors misunderstand the fact that, under orthodox Poynting-flow descriptions of electric circuits, the wires conduct charge but *don't* conduct any energy. Ideally the EM energy flowing along through the metal wires is zero. Instead, the EM energy in an electric circuit flows only in the EM fields surrounding the circuit, and if the resistance of the wires is small, then the e-field exists *only* in the space surrounding the wires, and hence the E x H energy flow takes place *entirely* outside the wires. When you plug a lamp into a wall outlet, the energy does not flow inside the power cord. Instead it flows in the empty space surrounding the power cord! So says the orthodox viewpoint on the behavior of energy in EM systems. If a single resistor is connected to a single battery, then Fig. 7 is wrong in showing an "Sout". With one power supply connected to one load, the Poynting-vector energy flow is always *towards* the resistor. In Fig. 7, the "S(tr)" vectors on the right hand side near the "S(out)" lable should be turned around the other way This is because i is the same and the b-field is the same on both sides of the resistor, but the e-field is backwards on the right-hand side. The cross-product of E and H at that spot should produce a Poynting-vector energy flow which runs parallel to the connecting wires, but which flows towards the resistor. When the arrows are flipped around correctly, the sum of the Poynting vector fields at each end of the resistor is simply the energy lost to resistive heating, and there is no "S(out)" remaining. An "orthodox" Poynting-flow diagram appears in Kraus and Carver ELECTROMAGNETICS, page 417, Fig. 10-19. This diagram shows the power flow as it exits a battery, flows parallel to the wires, then dives perpendicularly into the surface of a resistor. This sort of diagram is missing from all other physics textbooks I've ever encountered, so it's little wonder that it might seem strange and mysterious. Yet it describes the energy flow of the simplest circuit. It really should appear in ALL physics texts. Still, I don't see how this part of the MEG paper connects with the rest of the material. It has little to do with ZPE obtained through regauging. If it was deleted, the main issues would seem to remain unaffected. It is a major error, but not one that alters the other conclusions as far as I can tell. If the authors are searching for an explanation of anomalous excess energy in magnetic devices, they may find it in the regauging concepts, but I don't think it is found in the Poynting vector fields of simple DC circuits. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 17 17:31:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA07624; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 17:30:04 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 17:29:55 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 17:29:33 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"tIyh71.0.ms1.IkT5w"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17509 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: MEG v2.0 build by JL Naudin On Fri, 17 Nov 2000, William Beaty wrote: > AC output is 700% of input?!!! At 30KHz. Others have noted a 10x error in the current. Or a 10x mistake in the value of load resistor. Perhaps the current probe does not display the 10x correctly on the scope. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 17 17:49:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA00923; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 17:49:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 17:49:07 -0800 Message-ID: <002301c05101$c4581d20$0201a8c0@m> From: "Michael Randall" To: Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 17:49:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"3nWPY3.0.FE.J0U5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17510 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: High K Polysulphide Experiments This will be my third attempt to get this e-mail to the list, this time with the Subject line changed. Hopefully it will work. Please excuse my previous e-mails if they do arrive. Regards, Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Randall" To: Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 5:09 PM Subject: Re: Grav-cap worries > Hi James, > >> > > All I can offer is that I am hugely indebted to you all for your warmth > and support, and I will endeavour to report this on > http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/EclipseLab as accurately as possible in the > next few days., > >> > > Looking forward to reading more about your GW experiment. Thank you for > sharing your experiments results. > > Your webpage is very interesting! What is the status of your "Massive-K > Polysulphide Tests" webpage: > > http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/EclipseLab/TTBrown/Polysulph.htm > > as there is no data shown? What was the manufacturer of your polysulphide > material? As Steven Dufresne used Deck-O-Seal w/o success in his High K > Dielectric Propulsion Experiments. > > http://www.entrenet.com/~stevend/highk/highk.htm > > Would using a thin layer of polysulphide between your GW plates help > improve > the effect? > > Regards, Michael Randall > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 17 18:14:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA12435; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 18:13:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 18:13:45 -0800 Message-ID: <004f01c050fc$26510b00$0201a8c0@m> From: "Michael Randall" To: Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 17:09:06 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"8otvH1.0.d13.PNU5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17511 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Grav-cap worries Hi James, >> > All I can offer is that I am hugely indebted to you all for your warmth and support, and I will endeavour to report this on http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/EclipseLab as accurately as possible in the next few days., >> Looking forward to reading more about your GW experiment. Thank you for sharing your experiments results. Your webpage is very interesting! What is the status of your "Massive-K Polysulphide Tests" webpage: http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/EclipseLab/TTBrown/Polysulph.htm as there is no data shown? What was the manufacturer of your polysulphide material? As Steven Dufresne used Deck-O-Seal w/o success in his High K Dielectric Propulsion Experiments. http://www.entrenet.com/~stevend/highk/highk.htm Would using a thin layer of polysulphide between your GW plates help improve the effect? Regards, Michael Randall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 17 21:16:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA16472; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 21:16:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 21:16:01 -0800 Message-ID: <000f01c050d8$81696560$0201a8c0@m> From: "Michael Randall" To: References: Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 12:53:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ff0Li1.0.514.H2X5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17512 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Grav-cap worries Hi James, >> > All I can offer is that I am hugely indebted to you all for your warmth and support, and I will endeavour to report this on http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/EclipseLab as accurately as possible in the next few days., >> Looking forward to reading more about your GW experiment. Thank you for sharing your experiments results. Your webpage is very interesting! What is the status of your "Massive-K Polysulphide Tests" webpage: http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/EclipseLab/TTBrown/Polysulph.htm as there is no data shown? What was the manufacturer of your polysulphide material? As Steven Dufresne used Deck-O-Seal w/o success in his High K Dielectric Propulsion Experiments. http://www.entrenet.com/~stevend/highk/highk.htm Would using a thin layer of polysulphide between your GW plates help improve the effect? Regards, Michael Randall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 17 21:25:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA21792; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 21:25:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 21:25:26 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20001117184331.08bf1402@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 18:43:31 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Major error in MEG paper In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"WaGV91.0.PK5.6BX5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17513 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Bill and all, At 04:26 PM 11/17/00 -0800, you wrote: >An "orthodox" Poynting-flow diagram appears in Kraus and Carver >ELECTROMAGNETICS, page 417, Fig. 10-19. This diagram shows the power flow >as it exits a battery, flows parallel to the wires, then dives >perpendicularly into the surface of a resistor. This sort of diagram is >missing from all other physics textbooks I've ever encountered, so it's >little wonder that it might seem strange and mysterious. Yet it describes >the energy flow of the simplest circuit. It really should appear in ALL >physics texts. > A similar Poynting-flow diagram can be made for magnetic material cores as "transmission" structures. Instead of an E field between conductors, there is an H field between the magnetic paths. Instead of a B field circulating around the wires, there is a dA/dt ~ E vector circling the magnetic cores. Perhaps this would apply more to the MEG, it is shown in texts even less than the "electric" case? -Dave D. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Nov 18 01:20:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA12454; Sat, 18 Nov 2000 01:20:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 01:20:31 -0800 Message-ID: <3A1649DE.D5223788@groupz.net> Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 04:20:30 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siWpfcUINhQ,x-ns2r2d09OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <4.2.0.58.20001026155851.00967db0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001026102915.00957e10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001023203115.00c54e50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001023203115.00c54e50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001026102915.00957e10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001026155851.00967db0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001027222855.00cc6ef0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <39FA5848.637408FF@groupz.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"G3r7w1.0.M23.Vda5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17514 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Updated JLN MEG V2.1 page...18 Nov 2k Check it out.... http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/megv21.htm sno From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Nov 18 01:22:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA13633; Sat, 18 Nov 2000 01:22:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 01:22:34 -0800 Message-ID: <3A164A5C.2C6C1898@groupz.net> Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 04:22:36 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siWpfcUINhQ,x-ns2r2d09OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <5d.23325f5.272356d1@aol.com> <39f31376.249048058@mail.midiowa.net> <39F22580.16E57D2@groupz.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NoixQ3.0.sK3.Qfa5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17515 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Updated JLN MEG V2.1 page....18 Nov 2k Check it out.... http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/megv21.htm sno From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Nov 18 01:55:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA21581; Sat, 18 Nov 2000 01:55:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 01:55:20 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 10:04:47 +0200 From: Roger Blain Subject: Re: [FG]: grav cap To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-id: <013f01c05146$3f84c400$82ea1ec4@rbnotebook> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_010A_01C05146.FB787530" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 References: <003901c05094$23190cc0$0dff08d0@default> X-Priority: 3 Resent-Message-ID: <"2o7bf2.0.6H5.78b5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17516 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_010A_01C05146.FB787530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In the automotive industry automobiles are assembled using spot welding. = These spot welders produce around 12,000 to 30,000 Amps of current over = about 8 mains cycles, and pass the curent trough am electrode diametre = of around 8mm, to allow the steel pressings to be fused together into a = weld nugget, under preasure. To deliver this current to the spotweld = gun, a water cooled 'Kickless Cable' is used. When the weld is = aclivated the kick is quite evident, and if the spot weld gun is not = held tightly will jump out of your hands. Now these 'kick' cables only = last a couple of weeks in opperation, as they fatigue, and the strands = start to fracture causing the resistance to increase imparing the weld = quality. From what I remember the cables are twisted in such a manner to = netralise the kick effect, but I should imagine that if individual wires = were used you would have a lethal situation. I always understood this to = be forces resulting from electric fields between the conductors. Roger ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Larry Canada=20 To: freenrg-l=20 Sent: 17 November 2000 02:44 Subject: [FG]: grav cap If you want to see real thrust, watch a welding lead as the arc is = struck and then released. With 300 to 600 amps, portions of the lead = will jump clear of the shop's concrete floor.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_010A_01C05146.FB787530 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In the automotive industry automobiles are assembled = using=20 spot welding. These spot welders produce around 12,000 to 30,000 Amps of = current=20 over about 8 mains cycles, and pass the curent trough am electrode = diametre of=20 around 8mm, to allow the steel pressings to be fused together into a = weld=20 nugget, under preasure. To deliver this current to the spotweld gun, = a =20 water cooled 'Kickless Cable' is used. When the weld is aclivated the = kick is=20 quite evident, and if the spot weld gun is not held tightly will jump = out of=20 your hands. Now these 'kick' cables only last a couple of weeks in = opperation,=20 as they fatigue, and the strands start to fracture causing the = resistance to=20 increase imparing the weld quality. From what I remember the cables are = twisted=20 in such a manner to netralise the kick effect, but I should imagine that = if=20 individual wires were used you would have a lethal situation. I always=20 understood this to be forces resulting from electric fields between the=20 conductors.

Roger

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Larry=20 Canada

To: freenrg-l

Sent: 17 November 2000 = 02:44

Subject: [FG]: grav cap

If you want to see real thrust, watch = a welding=20 lead as the arc is struck and then released. With 300 to = 600 amps,=20 portions of the lead will jump clear of the shop's concrete=20 floor.

------=_NextPart_000_010A_01C05146.FB787530-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Nov 18 04:46:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA22813; Sat, 18 Nov 2000 04:46:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 04:46:09 -0800 From: stevend@entrenet.com Message-ID: <20001118124519.27950.qmail@entrenet.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: grav cap To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 07:45:19 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <013f01c05146$3f84c400$82ea1ec4@rbnotebook> from "Roger Blain" at Nov 18, 2000 10:04:47 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Rq9DB2.0.Ma5.Hed5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17517 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In the grav cap experiment and others we use high voltage and micro or milliamps but we still see kicking the the wires when the voltage is first applied. With more heavily insultated wires I don't see it, or at least it is not noticable, but that could be due to the fact that the cables are heavier (conductor + insulation). It is definately something to watch out for. > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_010A_01C05146.FB787530 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > In the automotive industry automobiles are assembled using spot welding. = > These spot welders produce around 12,000 to 30,000 Amps of current over = > about 8 mains cycles, and pass the curent trough am electrode diametre = > of around 8mm, to allow the steel pressings to be fused together into a = > weld nugget, under preasure. To deliver this current to the spotweld = > gun, a water cooled 'Kickless Cable' is used. When the weld is = > aclivated the kick is quite evident, and if the spot weld gun is not = > held tightly will jump out of your hands. Now these 'kick' cables only = > last a couple of weeks in opperation, as they fatigue, and the strands = > start to fracture causing the resistance to increase imparing the weld = > quality. From what I remember the cables are twisted in such a manner to = > netralise the kick effect, but I should imagine that if individual wires = > were used you would have a lethal situation. I always understood this to = > be forces resulting from electric fields between the conductors. > > Roger > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: Larry Canada=20 > To: freenrg-l=20 > Sent: 17 November 2000 02:44 > Subject: [FG]: grav cap > > > If you want to see real thrust, watch a welding lead as the arc is = > struck and then released. With 300 to 600 amps, portions of the lead = > will jump clear of the shop's concrete floor.=20 ------------------------------------------------------------- Steven Dufresne stevend@entrenet.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Nov 18 05:01:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA27058; Sat, 18 Nov 2000 05:00:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 05:00:54 -0800 Message-ID: <3A167CD7.E23993BE@enter.net> Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 07:57:59 -0500 From: David Rosignoli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: grav cap References: <20001118124519.27950.qmail@entrenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XEf0w.0.gc6.5sd5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17518 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I've seen this myself. I thought it was due to just electrostatic attraction of the wires. It seemed consistent with that. The car battery effect looks like a magnetic effect. It reminds me of Greneau's work with longitudinal forces on wires. stevend@entrenet.com wrote: > > In the grav cap experiment and others we use high voltage and > micro or milliamps but we still see kicking the the wires when the > voltage is first applied. With more heavily insultated wires I don't > see it, or at least it is not noticable, but that could be due > to the fact that the cables are heavier (conductor + insulation). > It is definately something to watch out for. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Nov 18 09:02:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA24533; Sat, 18 Nov 2000 09:02:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 09:02:28 -0800 From: stevend@entrenet.com Message-ID: <20001118170137.2669.qmail@entrenet.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: grav cap To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 12:01:37 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <3A167CD7.E23993BE@enter.net> from "David Rosignoli" at Nov 18, 2000 07:57:59 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pZW7C.0.E_5.ZOh5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17519 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Dave, I can think of two possible reasons. 1. My wires are usually stranded. Each individual strand would carry the same charge and they would therefore repel. This would appear as a stiffening of the overall cable (i.e. curves become a little straighter). 2. Wires that are not well insulated would charge any surface that they are near and would then repel from that surface. For this reason, I keep my wire suspended in the air, usually taped to plastic pill bottles. My wires are never near each other and so would never attract each other. I guess that's the one you are refering to. - Steve > > I've seen this myself. I thought it was due to just electrostatic > attraction of the wires. It seemed consistent with that. The car battery > effect looks like a magnetic effect. It reminds me of Greneau's work > with longitudinal forces on wires. > > stevend@entrenet.com wrote: > > > > In the grav cap experiment and others we use high voltage and > > micro or milliamps but we still see kicking the the wires when the > > voltage is first applied. With more heavily insultated wires I don't > > see it, or at least it is not noticable, but that could be due > > to the fact that the cables are heavier (conductor + insulation). > > It is definately something to watch out for. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- Steven Dufresne stevend@entrenet.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Nov 18 14:12:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA01686; Sat, 18 Nov 2000 14:11:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 14:11:05 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Updated JLN MEG V2.1 page....18 Nov 2k Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 09:10:23 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <5d.23325f5.272356d1@aol.com> <39f31376.249048058@mail.midiowa.net> <39F22580.16E57D2@groupz.net> <3A164A5C.2C6C1898@groupz.net> In-Reply-To: <3A164A5C.2C6C1898@groupz.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA01609 Resent-Message-ID: <"i5Pw41.0.FQ.uvl5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17520 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to sno's message of Sat, 18 Nov 2000 04:22:36 -0500: > >Check it out.... > >http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/megv21.htm > >sno I'm a little wary of these results. JLN doesn't say what value output resistor he is now using, but it was previously specified as 100 K. If that is still the case, then the output current is 7.5 mA, not 75 mA. I would almost suspect the the scope channel for the current is set at 5 mA / div., rather than 50. Perhaps his scope has a 10 fold amplification setting, and he has forgotten about it? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Nov 18 14:37:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA08681; Sat, 18 Nov 2000 14:36:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 14:36:35 -0800 Message-ID: <3A170474.2E25229E@groupz.net> Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 17:36:36 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siWpfcUINhQ,x-ns2r2d09OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Updated JLN MEG V2.1 page....18 Nov 2k References: <5d.23325f5.272356d1@aol.com> <39f31376.249048058@mail.midiowa.net> <39F22580.16E57D2@groupz.net> <3A164A5C.2C6C1898@groupz.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"J1hF01.0.Y72.pHm5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17521 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com There is a note on the page, that he is using the same ten ohm resister, on the input and output (I assume meaning the same value). steve Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > In reply to sno's message of Sat, 18 Nov 2000 04:22:36 -0500: > > > > >Check it out.... > > > >http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/megv21.htm > > > >sno > I'm a little wary of these results. JLN doesn't say what value output > resistor he is now using, but it was previously specified as 100 K. If that > is still the case, then the output current is 7.5 mA, not 75 mA. I would > almost suspect the the scope channel for the current is set at 5 mA / div., > rather than 50. > > Perhaps his scope has a 10 fold amplification setting, and he has forgotten > about it? > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do > to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Nov 18 15:18:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA18949; Sat, 18 Nov 2000 15:17:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 15:17:47 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Updated JLN MEG V2.1 page....18 Nov 2k Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 10:17:10 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <5d.23325f5.272356d1@aol.com> <39f31376.249048058@mail.midiowa.net> <39F22580.16E57D2@groupz.net> <3A164A5C.2C6C1898@groupz.net> <3A170474.2E25229E@groupz.net> In-Reply-To: <3A170474.2E25229E@groupz.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA18906 Resent-Message-ID: <"Dcwln2.0.wd4.Rum5w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17522 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to sno's message of Sat, 18 Nov 2000 17:36:36 -0500: > >There is a note on the page, that he is using the same >ten ohm resister, on the input and output (I assume meaning >the same value). > >steve [snip] Yes, I missed that before. However I'm still not satisfied, as the scope setting of "1000 mA/volt" still doesn't tell me how many volts/division. I.e. it isn't possible to check the statement that the current is 50 mA/div. Furthermore, presumably the 10 ohm resistor is only used to convert current to voltage, and doesn't actually constitute the load on the device. As a sanity check, I would like to know the value of the load resistor. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Nov 18 17:56:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA15568; Sat, 18 Nov 2000 17:55:11 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 17:55:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3A173369.9C085245@imaginativa.cl> Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:56:57 -0300 From: Felix Meyer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [de]C-CCK-MCD DT (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5FMLF3.0.3p3.zBp5w"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17523 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: MEG overunity controversy The results found on the JLN research page indicate overunity of up to 500 %. !!!PHANTASTIC !!! However, there are critics about measuring methods and uncertainitis about load values and AC-characteristics. Measuring real power in AC is manytimes misleading due to phase angle between voltage and current, form-factor of envelope and other influences as measuring scale etc. In order to obtain very clear, undoubtable results I suggest to rectify the AC of the output coils and then filter by a Condenser. Then measure the steady DC-Voltage and Current on the load resistance. Rectifying is done easily by silicon diodes with efficiency over 98% at the operating frequency of 30 to 60 khz. Hope that Jean-Louis Naudin will be able to do this soon Felix From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Nov 19 15:56:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA22135; Sun, 19 Nov 2000 15:56:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 15:56:10 -0800 From: "Lab 666" To: Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 04:24:17 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <20001118170137.2669.qmail@entrenet.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"gKFkA1.0.dP5.QY66w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17524 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: RE: help I got a friend of mine who wants to join the group how do you do that? i forgot. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 04:18:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA02599; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 04:18:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 04:18:28 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 12:17:50 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Sender-Ip: 143.210.84.233 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JPKcB3.0.Se.KQH6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17525 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Grav-Cap files uploaded! Dear All, The files for my grav-cap experiments have been uploaded. You can see them at http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/EclipseLab/Elecrkt/Elecrkt.html The sketches are not in place, but will be soon. By the way, could anyone get a few thousand plates stamped out for me? I found someone interested in putting up some money for me to do more experiments in the last couple of days, so the grav-cap may do be tter yet :) Thankyou all again for your great support, James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 08:36:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA21475; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 08:36:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 08:36:14 -0800 Message-ID: <20001120163609.17752.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 08:36:09 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Ford To: JNaudin509@aol.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"h1Z9Q1.0.OF5.-BL6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17526 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: MEG Measurements Jean: I am sorry to be such a wet blanket. I have seen the MEG tests posted on Free_energy@eroups.com, and now there is even more on Bill's Freenrg-L 500%OU and 700%OU I am skeptical about the results. Here is the problem. The Lambda bench top power supply uses a digital panel meter. The MEG driver system draws power in short spikes (low duty cycle). The digital meter is unable to measure the peak current so it clips to the maximum measurable and averages that number in with the low measurements. The result causes the meter to read low. A low reading at the input causes the false appearance of OU. the closer the average current is to the maximum measurable the greater the error. During my time at Tandy Electronic Design this type of panel meter was considered for use in a cost down ("value added" :-) bench top meter for Radio Shack. It was rejected because Unless the signal content was perfect smooth DC the meter made large errors close to the maximum reading. If the current duty is say 10% you could see a false OU of as much 1000% Before claims of OU are made a correct measurement of input power must be made. This type of error is exactly what has fooled so many inventors into thinking that there motor generator is OU. Measure the input current simultaneously with a shunted analog movement. by placing the meter in series with the MEG input. Compare your results. I am sure that you will notice this error also. Charles Ford cjford1@yhoo.com cjford1@swbell.net KC5-OWZ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 09:47:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA17387; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 09:46:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 09:46:11 -0800 Message-ID: <001101c05319$48181700$7d9d84ac@deanarde> From: "ardvark" To: , Cc: References: <20001120163609.17752.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:42:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Apparently-From: Tillyzena@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"Y1hAR1.0.WF4.ZDM6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17527 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: MEG Measurements What makes me smile is that people will claim to have an overunity device, they then try to prove it by giving oscilloscope readings and readings from various other devices, going in to long winded technical explanations. Now I am not saying it is not necessary for this to be done, far from it, but surely their overunity claims would be better proved by first connecting the output to the input, self running the device and taking readings of the surplus power doing useful work? Until I see this happen, with detail on how it was done, I will be sceptical and dismissive of any claim form anybody professing to have circumvented the laws of thermodynamics. Respectfully, Dean Ardern. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Ford" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 4:36 PM Subject: [FG]: MEG Measurements > Jean: > I am sorry to be such a wet blanket. I have seen the MEG tests > posted on Free_energy@eroups.com, and now there is even more on > Bill's Freenrg-L > > 500%OU and 700%OU > > I am skeptical about the results. Here is the problem. > > The Lambda bench top power supply uses a digital panel meter. > The MEG driver system draws power in short spikes (low duty > cycle). The digital meter is unable to measure the peak > current so it clips to the maximum measurable and averages that > number in with the low measurements. > > The result causes the meter to read low. A low reading at the > input causes the false appearance of OU. the closer the > average current is to the maximum measurable the greater the > error. > > During my time at Tandy Electronic Design this type of panel > meter was considered for use in a cost down ("value added" :-) > bench top meter for Radio Shack. It was rejected because > Unless the signal content was perfect smooth DC the meter made > large errors close to the maximum reading. > > If the current duty is say 10% you could see a false OU of as > much 1000% > > Before claims of OU are made a correct measurement of input > power must be made. > > This type of error is exactly what has fooled so many inventors > into thinking that there motor generator is OU. > > Measure the input current simultaneously with a shunted analog > movement. by placing the meter in series with the MEG input. > Compare your results. I am sure that you will notice this > error also. > > Charles Ford > cjford1@yhoo.com > cjford1@swbell.net > KC5-OWZ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! > http://calendar.yahoo.com/ > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 10:37:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA01470; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:37:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:37:06 -0800 Message-ID: <3A196F3D.A4E740E0@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:36:45 +0200 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: finalheaven@angelfire.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex Subject: Re: [FG]: Grav-Cap files uploaded! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xDuOc1.0.lM.HzM6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17528 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi James, Assuming you had not yet disassembled your setup (DONT DO IT), you may power it again in setups described below: 1) Original setup. purpose to test the reproducibility of the effect. 2) Same setup with reversed polarities. 3) Tilt the setup by 90 degrees. Capacitor plates would be oriented vertically. 4) Same as 3, but reversed polarities. 5) same as 3 but turned by 90 degrees horizontally. It may be useful to orient plates (in setup 3) to a know direction (i.e. outer positive plate face to north) rather than to an arbitrary chosen direction. You may take measures after half a minute, and another one minute later. Please report the results. These results would help to understand the nature effect. Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 10:41:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA07977; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:40:29 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:40:29 -0800 (PST) From: DEADWATE@aol.com Message-ID: <7a.cde9ae8.274ac9e9@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 13:39:37 EST Subject: Re: [FG]: RE: help To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 110 Resent-Message-ID: <"HZ4g43.0.Py1.M0N6w"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17529 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 11/19/00 11:56:38 PM !!!First Boot!!!, computermaster@rcn.com writes: << Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> go there From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 10:59:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA10246; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:56:09 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:56:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3A19739F.4C168432@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:55:27 +0200 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: MEG Measurements References: <20001120163609.17752.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> <001101c05319$48181700$7d9d84ac@deanarde> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"muZGU3.0.oV2.4FN6w"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17530 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com "JNL Labs" never respond to questions, comments, to suggestions, meaningfully at least. What is the purpose of their publicly accessible site and their announcements. A multimedia show, a promotion, a kind of business? A contribution to the eye catching c ontext of the Internet, but not for scientists and engineers. ardvark wrote: > > What makes me smile is that people will claim to have an overunity device, > they then try to prove it by giving oscilloscope readings and readings from > various other devices, going in to long winded technical explanations. Now > I am not saying it is not necessary for this to be done, far from it, but > surely their overunity claims would be better proved by first connecting the > output to the input, self running the device and taking readings of the > surplus power doing useful work? Until I see this happen, with detail on how > it was done, I will be sceptical and dismissive of any claim form anybody > professing to have circumvented the laws of thermodynamics. > Respectfully, > Dean Ardern. Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 11:19:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA16295; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 11:18:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 11:18:02 -0800 Message-ID: <3A1978BD.6183A014@informatics.net> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 13:17:17 -0600 From: Jon Flickinger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: MEG Measurements References: <20001120163609.17752.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> <001101c05319$48181700$7d9d84ac@deanarde> <3A19739F.4C168432@verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1Pf-f3.0.W-3.eZN6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17531 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I thought I was the only one who felt this way about JLN Labs!!!! I've asked what I've felt to be pertinent questions about his MEG project and have never received a response! Jon Flickinger hamdi ucar wrote: > "JNL Labs" never respond to questions, comments, to suggestions, meaningfully at least. What is the purpose of their publicly accessible site and their announcements. A multimedia show, a promotion, a kind of business? A contribution to the eye catching context of the Internet, but not for scientists and engineers. > > ardvark wrote: > > > > What makes me smile is that people will claim to have an overunity device, > > they then try to prove it by giving oscilloscope readings and readings from > > various other devices, going in to long winded technical explanations. Now > > I am not saying it is not necessary for this to be done, far from it, but > > surely their overunity claims would be better proved by first connecting the > > output to the input, self running the device and taking readings of the > > surplus power doing useful work? Until I see this happen, with detail on how > > it was done, I will be sceptical and dismissive of any claim form anybody > > professing to have circumvented the laws of thermodynamics. > > Respectfully, > > Dean Ardern. > > Regards, > > hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 14:00:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31087; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 13:59:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 13:59:24 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [208.48.17.252] From: "Louis Cipher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: My Grav-cap Works! Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 15:58:46 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Nov 2000 21:58:46.0722 (UTC) FILETIME=[0E77DA20:01C0533D] Resent-Message-ID: <"sclvo.0.Zb7.xwP6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17532 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I don't suppose there's a snowball's chance in Guam of anyone repeating this experiment in a small vacuum chamber? --Lou >From: stevend@entrenet.com >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: [FG]: My Grav-cap Works! >Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 07:30:03 -0500 (EST) > >Hi James and all, > >You said that the dielectric was normal writing papers with >a layer of polyethlene bin liner. How thick was the layer >in total? (i.e. how much bin liner?) > >Also, was the book bound shut tightly? Did you tape it >shut? > >Here's a summary of what we have so far, taken from the >emails: > >Info gathered so far from the threads >------------------------------------- > >The Device: 5 layers positive, 5 negative. Dielectric was the paper > that the foil was glued to, plus an additional layer of > polyethlene bin liner to beef up the breakdown level. > Dielectric was normal writing paper. All the plates were > charged. It was Aluminium foil, normal gauge. The plates > were individual segments of foil, linked by strips of > foil. Like the 1920s one. > >Charged using: MINIMAX2 from Information Unlimited ($14.95) > >Voltage: The effect was instantaneous, and the PSU is supposed to > supply 2kV, but this may be wrong. > >Current: Can't measure, but must be low microamp range. > >How was thrust measured: > > Aligned all the layers, then put them in the center of a hardback book > weighing 202 grams. I put it on the scales, and the whole thing > weighed maybe 210grams. I really expected nothing to happen. I have > an analog kitchen scales which can measure in 1/2 gram increments. > >Results: > > When the power was on, I got it down to 205 grams, though I could have > done more by on-off switching and using the pendulum effect. > It produced an upwards thrust of about 5 grams. > > The book that it was wedged in lost around 2.5% weight when the > baby GC was charged with 2000 volts. > > Placed it on an analogue kitchen scale and charged. Within 1 second, > the reading was evident. It will not lift its own weight though - must >be > compressed together for thrust to manifest. > > Unfortunately, I'm running on a shoestring > here, with no real way to tell what the capacitance of my layers are - > hard to even determine voltage. > >Cheers, >Steve >------------------------------------------------------------- >Steven Dufresne stevend@entrenet.com > > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 14:21:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA04820; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 14:21:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 14:21:08 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [63.253.7.127] From: "Mehmet Boysal" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:20:34 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Nov 2000 22:20:34.0622 (UTC) FILETIME=[1A098DE0:01C05340] Resent-Message-ID: <"y7e491.0.4B1.KFQ6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17533 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: MEG Measurements + my own <> > >I thought I was the only one who felt this way about JLN Labs!!!! I've >asked what I've felt to be pertinent questions about his MEG project and >have never received a response! > >Jon Flickinger > >hamdi ucar wrote: > > > "JNL Labs" never respond to questions, comments, to suggestions, >meaningfully at least. What is the purpose of their publicly accessible >site and their announcements. A multimedia show, a promotion, a kind of >business? A contribution to the eye catching context of the Internet, but >not for scientists and engineers. > > > > ardvark wrote: > > > > > > What makes me smile is that people will claim to have an overunity >device, > > > they then try to prove it by giving oscilloscope readings and readings >from > > > various other devices, going in to long winded technical >explanations. Now > > > I am not saying it is not necessary for this to be done, far from it, >but > > > surely their overunity claims would be better proved by first >connecting the > > > output to the input, self running the device and taking readings of >the > > > surplus power doing useful work? Until I see this happen, with detail >on how > > > it was done, I will be sceptical and dismissive of any claim form >anybody > > > professing to have circumvented the laws of thermodynamics. > > > Respectfully, > > > Dean Ardern. > > > > Regards, > > > > hamdi ucar > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 15:03:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA26762; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 15:02:28 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 15:02:28 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 15:02:04 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Major error in MEG paper In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20001117184331.08bf1402@earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"EDB4z3.0.yX6.0sQ6w"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17534 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 17 Nov 2000, Dave Dameron wrote: > A similar Poynting-flow diagram can be made for magnetic material cores as > "transmission" structures. Instead of an E field between conductors, there > is an H field between the magnetic paths. Instead of a B field circulating > around the wires, there is a dA/dt ~ E vector circling the magnetic cores. > Perhaps this would apply more to the MEG, it is shown in texts even less > than the "electric" case? Yeah, and when such a thing is driven by AC, the energy travels as waves of spin-flipping which propagate along the ferrous rods. It's an energy flow, and it involves electrons, but the electrons are changing their spin rather than flowing along. For the confused: imagine a simplified iron-core transformer which has a ring-shaped core with primary and secondary coils wound at two different places. Now stretch the ring so that the two coils are very far apart. Send AC power through the transformer, and note that the energy must travel along the two iron "conductors" as it makes its way from primary to secondary. The core could even be ferrite, which is an electrical insulator, and it would still work. Or the core could be a long circle of iron wire. Energy can flow along such a wire, yet the current be zero in the wire, since the wire is being used to guide magnetism. Hmmmm. Sounds something like the infamous "cold current", eh? Maybe the secret of "cold current" is to use iron wire, since the "current" is actually waves of magnetism? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 17:19:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA18991; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:18:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:18:17 -0800 Message-ID: <000e01c05359$69dd9d20$393dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <20001120163609.17752.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> <001101c05319$48181700$7d9d84ac@deanarde> <3A19739F.4C168432@verisoft.com.tr> <3A1978BD.6183A014@informatics.net> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:21:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"KASdK1.0.Xe4.OrS6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17535 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: JLN's Projects Jon, Hamdi, Dean; Yes, I know the feeling also. However, I tend to give JLN some slack. Consider for a moment the dozens if not hundreds of questions he must recieve daily. He's gotta be backed up for months. I know one time I e-mailed him and inquired about the Rodin coil experiment, something that I presume Jean Louis hadn't worked on for quite a while. Never got an answer back. I couldn't fault him too much, though. Sometimes it takes me days just to find the time to answer three or four e-mails, what with kids and spouse using the computer in the evening, and my day job, etc. I can't imagine the anxiety I would feel if I was besieged with even 20 e-mail questions in a day. It is important that we all question each other's experiments; thats what science is about. I question Naudin's methodology on occasion myself. But we would be hard pressed to find someone who actually can perform the number of tests on as many different topics, and still get most of it up on the web like he does. He's a rare bear, and a great friend to alt-sci. NR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Flickinger" To: Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: MEG Measurements > I thought I was the only one who felt this way about JLN Labs!!!! I've asked what I've felt to be pertinent questions about his MEG project and have never received a response! > > Jon Flickinger > > hamdi ucar wrote: > > > "JNL Labs" never respond to questions, comments, to suggestions, meaningfully at least. What is the purpose of their publicly accessible site and their announcements. A multimedia show, a promotion, a kind of business? A contribution to the eye catching context of the Internet, but not for scientists and engineers. > > > > ardvark wrote: > > > > > > What makes me smile is that people will claim to have an overunity device, > > > they then try to prove it by giving oscilloscope readings and readings from > > > various other devices, going in to long winded technical explanations. Now > > > I am not saying it is not necessary for this to be done, far from it, but > > > surely their overunity claims would be better proved by first connecting the > > > output to the input, self running the device and taking readings of the > > > surplus power doing useful work? Until I see this happen, with detail on how > > > it was done, I will be sceptical and dismissive of any claim form anybody > > > professing to have circumvented the laws of thermodynamics. > > > Respectfully, > > > Dean Ardern. > > > > Regards, > > > > hamdi ucar > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 17:23:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA20763; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:20:59 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:20:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <00ff01c05358$c8996f20$55035bd1@default> From: "chuck's corner" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: MEG Measurements + my own Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:17:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"daZCe3.0.E45.ttS6w"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17536 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello Mehmet, I have read your post and admire your effort, regardess of outcome. I for one commend your efforts and do trust you will post them since you have gone to the trouble to take photos as well. Your work will not be in vain if anything can be learned from even your mistakes and failures. I too have tried many projects .....some were successes and others were miserabe failures... I've posted results both good and bad and not just here but to energy21 and Keelynet as well. Nothing is a total loss or faiure unless you allow it to be. Your posting your efforts may point out an obvious error and maybe not but if you don't post them we won't be afforded the opportunity to learn from them. So I guess this is my way of asking nicely ... will you plz post your resuts even though they weren't a success in your opinion? Thanks for your audience. respectfuly, Chuck Farrar ----- Original Message ----- From: Mehmet Boysal To: Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 10:20 PM Subject: [FG]: MEG Measurements + my own > < Its great if we can keep a positive attitude here, by questioning > in put and out of ou devices. > > But I also agree with: John, Ucar, Ardvark, and with like minded online > friends/researchers that > When some one claims ou should be responsible for clear satisfactory > explanation to the list. > If the true "and Honest" sharing is the first priority here, so we can > perhaps improve things and learn from one another's research! > Rather then claim something that isn't so. > > I too this last week spend some money and time and build a 20 lb heavy > gravity capacitor 8" (inches) round and 12"(inches)height and I used a older > computer monitor HVD power supply to fire it. However that it is like 10 or > 12 KV so I connected the power on the giant capacitor I build thinking that > surely will take off the ground, or at least would lose some weight, > wouldn't you think? Well that was thoughts, folks. > In fact I was going to spent more time to hang that thing like a pendulum on > a 4 leg sawhorse that I build too (like a table with 4 legs) > to see if it would have some forward thrust! > But to save some labor & time I put that GC on bathroom scale to see if > would lose some weight, you know! Folks, nothing happened! At all!!! > 000 Weight lost, all I heard was, when I turned the High V DC on made some > kind of hissing noise like a water flow sound that's all! > I am little mad right now, but I will get over this. > I took 17 digital pic almost every step in the way, to share the results, > but 0 positive results, so no worth to spend time on make a website. > > So the point is: Let us be honest here, we can only fool ourselves if we > claim something that isn't so. I feel like a fool little bit here, because I > followed my own thoughts and thinking and no math or theories nothing. > Capacitor sure is a very heavy and looks very impressive. > That's all > Mehmet.>> > > > > > > >I thought I was the only one who felt this way about JLN Labs!!!! I've > >asked what I've felt to be pertinent questions about his MEG project and > >have never received a response! > > > >Jon Flickinger > > > >hamdi ucar wrote: > > > > > "JNL Labs" never respond to questions, comments, to suggestions, > >meaningfully at least. What is the purpose of their publicly accessible > >site and their announcements. A multimedia show, a promotion, a kind of > >business? A contribution to the eye catching context of the Internet, but > >not for scientists and engineers. > > > > > > ardvark wrote: > > > > > > > > What makes me smile is that people will claim to have an overunity > >device, > > > > they then try to prove it by giving oscilloscope readings and readings > >from > > > > various other devices, going in to long winded technical > >explanations. Now > > > > I am not saying it is not necessary for this to be done, far from it, > >but > > > > surely their overunity claims would be better proved by first > >connecting the > > > > output to the input, self running the device and taking readings of > >the > > > > surplus power doing useful work? Until I see this happen, with detail > >on how > > > > it was done, I will be sceptical and dismissive of any claim form > >anybody > > > > professing to have circumvented the laws of thermodynamics. > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Dean Ardern. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > hamdi ucar > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ _________ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 17:57:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA26495; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:56:04 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:56:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3A19D613.50213C70@groupz.net> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:55:31 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siWpfcUINhQ,x-ns2r2d09OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: JLN's Projects References: <20001120163609.17752.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> <001101c05319$48181700$7d9d84ac@deanarde> <3A19739F.4C168432@verisoft.com.tr> <3A1978BD.6183A014@informatics.net> <000e01c05359$69dd9d20$393dee3f@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"auVQZ.0.qT6.kOT6w"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17537 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I agree...going by past experiments he will post when he has time... has completed....he is also not working alone...there are a number of people who have joined his group...am sure some of them are monitoring this group..and others....and if the questions raised make sense then they are checking out... In the meantime...everyone and his brother am sure is sending emails asking questions...probably some of them pretty stupid... so we all need to be patient and will learn what he discovers in probably a short time...as one of the last things he said was he was working on closing the loop.... And as we all know....that is the proof that counts....no matter what the readings say.... steve Nick Reiter wrote: > > Jon, Hamdi, Dean; > > Yes, I know the feeling also. However, I tend to give JLN some slack. > Consider for a moment the dozens if not hundreds of questions he must > recieve daily. He's gotta be backed up for months. I know one time I > e-mailed him and inquired about the Rodin coil experiment, something that I > presume Jean Louis hadn't worked on for quite a while. Never got an answer > back. I couldn't fault him too much, though. Sometimes it takes me days > just to find the time to answer three or four e-mails, what with kids and > spouse using the computer in the evening, and my day job, etc. I can't > imagine the anxiety I would feel if I was besieged with even 20 e-mail > questions in a day. > It is important that we all question each other's experiments; thats what > science is about. I question Naudin's methodology on occasion myself. But > we would be hard pressed to find someone who actually can perform the number > of tests on as many different topics, and still get most of it up on the web > like he does. He's a rare bear, and a great friend to alt-sci. > > NR > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jon Flickinger" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 2:17 PM > Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: MEG Measurements > > > I thought I was the only one who felt this way about JLN Labs!!!! I've > asked what I've felt to be pertinent questions about his MEG project and > have never received a response! > > > > Jon Flickinger > > > > hamdi ucar wrote: > > > > > "JNL Labs" never respond to questions, comments, to suggestions, > meaningfully at least. What is the purpose of their publicly accessible site > and their announcements. A multimedia show, a promotion, a kind of business? > A contribution to the eye catching context of the Internet, but not for > scientists and engineers. > > > > > > ardvark wrote: > > > > > > > > What makes me smile is that people will claim to have an overunity > device, > > > > they then try to prove it by giving oscilloscope readings and readings > from > > > > various other devices, going in to long winded technical > explanations. Now > > > > I am not saying it is not necessary for this to be done, far from it, > but > > > > surely their overunity claims would be better proved by first > connecting the > > > > output to the input, self running the device and taking readings of > the > > > > surplus power doing useful work? Until I see this happen, with detail > on how > > > > it was done, I will be sceptical and dismissive of any claim form > anybody > > > > professing to have circumvented the laws of thermodynamics. > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Dean Ardern. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > hamdi ucar > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 18:01:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA06075; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:00:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:00:17 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20001120183943.24671c2c@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:39:43 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Major error in MEG paper In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20001117184331.08bf1402@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"6FvTD.0.kU1.mST6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17538 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Bill and all, At 03:02 PM 11/20/00 -0800, you wrote: >Yeah, and when such a thing is driven by AC, the energy travels as waves >of spin-flipping which propagate along the ferrous rods. It's an energy >flow, and it involves electrons, but the electrons are changing their spin >rather than flowing along. > >For the confused: imagine a simplified iron-core transformer which has a >ring-shaped core with primary and secondary coils wound at two different >places. Now stretch the ring so that the two coils are very far apart. >Send AC power through the transformer, and note that the energy must >travel along the two iron "conductors" as it makes its way from primary to >secondary. The core could even be ferrite, which is an electrical >insulator, and it would still work. Or the core could be a long circle of >iron wire. Energy can flow along such a wire, yet the current be zero in >the wire, since the wire is being used to guide magnetism. Yeah, and the "dual" idea can be carried further, although the magnetic conductors cannot be "insulated" as well as the electric kinds, just the diamagnetic materials like bismuth, but none with a permeability near zero. See the Diaz patent, US5675306 which Fred Epps found. There is an "inductor" with the coil wound with high permeability ferrite. The core is now high permittivity material, the actual material he mentions I cannot find any reference for. It would have been fun to be able to construct one. -Dave D. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 18:06:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA08612; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:05:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:05:43 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: MEG Measurements + my own Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:04:54 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id SAA08523 Resent-Message-ID: <"neoLd.0.T62.tXT6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17539 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Mehmet Boysal's message of Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:20:34 : [snip] >But to save some labor & time I put that GC on bathroom scale to see if >would lose some weight, you know! Folks, nothing happened! At all!!! >000 Weight lost, all I heard was, when I turned the High V DC on made some >kind of hissing noise like a water flow sound that's all! [snip] The hissing sound was probably the sound of a high voltage spark shorting out your plates. I suggest that this may well have ruined your GC. Did you connect alternate plates to alternate polarities (i.e. +-+-+- ), or did you only connect the HV to each end of the stack? If you have connected all alternate tabs together, then I suggest you try a 9 V transistor radio battery iso the HV. Hopefully the short has only created a carbon bridge between the plates, and this may not be very low resistance, so the battery may still charge the plates, though with a leakage current. You should also measure the leakage current. If it isn't too bad, then you might also try a variable frequency sawtooth generator iso the battery. (It would be a shame to throw away all that work, if something can still be salvaged). Suggestion for anyone else building a GC - always try low voltage first! Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 18:19:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA12687; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:18:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:18:48 -0800 Message-ID: <3A19DB72.A652C0E0@groupz.net> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:18:26 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siWpfcUINhQ,x-ns2r2d09OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Major error in MEG paper References: <3.0.6.16.20001117184331.08bf1402@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.20001120183943.24671c2c@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uM4iz2.0.863.8kT6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17540 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Check on bottom of page. Page is another replication attempt....has list of suppliers for nanocrystalline material.... http://www.msoft.no/MEG/ steve Dave Dameron wrote: > > Hi Bill and all, > At 03:02 PM 11/20/00 -0800, you wrote: > > >Yeah, and when such a thing is driven by AC, the energy travels as waves > >of spin-flipping which propagate along the ferrous rods. It's an energy > >flow, and it involves electrons, but the electrons are changing their spin > >rather than flowing along. > > > >For the confused: imagine a simplified iron-core transformer which has a > >ring-shaped core with primary and secondary coils wound at two different > >places. Now stretch the ring so that the two coils are very far apart. > >Send AC power through the transformer, and note that the energy must > >travel along the two iron "conductors" as it makes its way from primary to > >secondary. The core could even be ferrite, which is an electrical > >insulator, and it would still work. Or the core could be a long circle of > >iron wire. Energy can flow along such a wire, yet the current be zero in > >the wire, since the wire is being used to guide magnetism. > > Yeah, and the "dual" idea can be carried further, although the magnetic > conductors cannot be "insulated" as well as the electric kinds, just the > diamagnetic materials like bismuth, but none with a permeability near zero. > > See the Diaz patent, US5675306 which Fred Epps found. There is an > "inductor" with the coil wound with high permeability ferrite. The core is > now high permittivity material, the actual material he mentions I cannot > find any reference for. It would have been fun to be able to construct one. > -Dave D. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 20:16:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA18768; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:16:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:16:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:16:07 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Major error in MEG paper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"EhGEt3.0.8b4.CSV6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17541 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 20 Nov 2000, William Beaty wrote: > Yeah, and when such a thing is driven by AC, the energy travels as waves > of spin-flipping which propagate along the ferrous rods. It's an energy > flow, and it involves electrons, but the electrons are changing their spin > rather than flowing along. Here's something I had sitting around half-finished: RIGHT ANGLE CIRCUITRY http://www.amasci.com/elect/mcoils.html "Electric energy" can be sent via current in wires, as magnetism in ferrite strands, or as "displacement current" along rods of BaTi. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 20:20:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA20081; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:20:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:20:01 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [63.253.8.120] From: "Mehmet Boysal" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: MEG Measurements + my own Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 04:19:26 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Nov 2000 04:19:27.0215 (UTC) FILETIME=[3C767FF0:01C05372] Resent-Message-ID: <"fowI3.0.dv4.nVV6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17542 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com <> > >Hello Mehmet, > I have read your post and admire your effort, regardess of outcome. >I >for one commend your efforts and do trust you will post them since >you >have gone to the trouble to take photos as well. Your work will not be in >vain if anything can be learned from even your mistakes and failures. I >too >have tried many projects .....some were successes and others were miserabe >failures... I've posted results both good and bad and not just here but to >energy21 and Keelynet as well. Nothing is a total loss or faiure unless you >allow it to be. Your posting your efforts may point out an obvious error >and maybe not but if you don't post them we won't be afforded the >opportunity to learn from them. So I guess this is my way of asking nicely >... will you plz post your resuts even though they weren't a success in >your >opinion? > Thanks for your audience. >respectfuly, Chuck Farrar >----- Original Message ----- >From: Mehmet Boysal >To: >Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 10:20 PM >Subject: [FG]: MEG Measurements + my own > > > > < > Its great if we can keep a positive attitude here, by questioning > > in put and out of ou devices. > > > > But I also agree with: John, Ucar, Ardvark, and with like minded online > > friends/researchers that > > When some one claims ou should be responsible for clear satisfactory > > explanation to the list. > > If the true "and Honest" sharing is the first priority here, so we can > > perhaps improve things and learn from one another's research! > > Rather then claim something that isn't so. > > > > I too this last week spend some money and time and build a 20 lb heavy > > gravity capacitor 8" (inches) round and 12"(inches)height and I used a >older > > computer monitor HVD power supply to fire it. However that it is like 10 >or > > 12 KV so I connected the power on the giant capacitor I build thinking >that > > surely will take off the ground, or at least would lose some weight, > > wouldn't you think? Well that was thoughts, folks. > > In fact I was going to spent more time to hang that thing like a >pendulum >on > > a 4 leg sawhorse that I build too (like a table with 4 legs) > > to see if it would have some forward thrust! > > But to save some labor & time I put that GC on bathroom scale to see if > > would lose some weight, you know! Folks, nothing happened! At all!!! > > 000 Weight lost, all I heard was, when I turned the High V DC on made >some > > kind of hissing noise like a water flow sound that's all! > > I am little mad right now, but I will get over this. > > I took 17 digital pic almost every step in the way, to share the >results, > > but 0 positive results, so no worth to spend time on make a website. > > > > So the point is: Let us be honest here, we can only fool ourselves if we > > claim something that isn't so. I feel like a fool little bit here, >because >I > > followed my own thoughts and thinking and no math or theories nothing. > > Capacitor sure is a very heavy and looks very impressive. > > That's all > > Mehmet.>> > > > > > > > > > > > >I thought I was the only one who felt this way about JLN Labs!!!! I've > > >asked what I've felt to be pertinent questions about his MEG project >and > > >have never received a response! > > > > > >Jon Flickinger > > > > > >hamdi ucar wrote: > > > > > > > "JNL Labs" never respond to questions, comments, to suggestions, > > >meaningfully at least. What is the purpose of their publicly accessible > > >site and their announcements. A multimedia show, a promotion, a kind of > > >business? A contribution to the eye catching context of the Internet, >but > > >not for scientists and engineers. > > > > > > > > ardvark wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What makes me smile is that people will claim to have an overunity > > >device, > > > > > they then try to prove it by giving oscilloscope readings and >readings > > >from > > > > > various other devices, going in to long winded technical > > >explanations. Now > > > > > I am not saying it is not necessary for this to be done, far from >it, > > >but > > > > > surely their overunity claims would be better proved by first > > >connecting the > > > > > output to the input, self running the device and taking readings >of > > >the > > > > > surplus power doing useful work? Until I see this happen, with >detail > > >on how > > > > > it was done, I will be sceptical and dismissive of any claim form > > >anybody > > > > > professing to have circumvented the laws of thermodynamics. > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > Dean Ardern. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > hamdi ucar > > > > > > > >____________________________________________________________________________ >_________ > > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : >http://explorer.msn.com > > > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 20:25:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA17928; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:24:12 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:24:12 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:24:01 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: MEG Measurements In-Reply-To: <3A19739F.4C168432@verisoft.com.tr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"GZLYc1.0.0O4.eZV6w"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17543 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 20 Nov 2000, hamdi ucar wrote: > > "JNL Labs" never respond to questions, comments, to suggestions, > meaningfully at least. What is the purpose of their publicly accessible > site and their announcements. A multimedia show, a promotion, a kind of > business? The alternative? To be secretive. ...and to catch flack for it! :) Much of the JLN site seems to be intended to promote replications. It's difficult to achive exact replications without plenty of detailed photos of the original expeirment. I suppose his main "crime" is to make a living from his work. (Or does he even do this?) As long as we fund our fringe-sci research out of pocket, and earn a living from a day job, it's hard for people to find fault. Popular sites attract huge amounts of email. Maybe Jean-Louis needs MORE funding, so that he can hire a fulltime secretary to answer his mail. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 20:26:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA22065; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:26:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:26:00 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 23:25:21 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, energy21@listbot.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, tlamb3@mindspring.com CC: Lafonte11648@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"lTsAH1.0.XO5.ObV6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17544 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Improved design LaFonte Group Motor/Generator See first draft at this site. http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/myhomepage/profile.html If there are any problems viewing this page please let me know. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 20:27:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA23350; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:27:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:27:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:27:21 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Major error in MEG paper In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20001120183943.24671c2c@earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"A9YYy3.0.li5.icV6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17545 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 20 Nov 2000, Dave Dameron wrote: > See the Diaz patent, US5675306 which Fred Epps found. There is an > "inductor" with the coil wound with high permeability ferrite. The core is > now high permittivity material, the actual material he mentions I cannot > find any reference for. It would have been fun to be able to construct one. The "electro-electret". It picks up paper bits instead of iron filings. Use a ferroelectric core rather than a ferromagnetic core (use BaTi or PZT ceramics, or maybe a laminated stack of copper rods, or a short hunk of Litz wire. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 20:37:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA27023; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:37:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:37:00 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [63.253.8.120] From: "Mehmet Boysal" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: MEG Measurements + my own Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 04:36:25 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Nov 2000 04:36:26.0047 (UTC) FILETIME=[9BBBECF0:01C05374] Resent-Message-ID: <"nnJq11.0.8c6.hlV6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17546 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com << Robin I hear what you say, Yes I did first used a low volt dc supply to check the gc to see if there was any short at all, which was fine. Then I did connect the house hold outlet power 120 V AC on it and was just fine too. The problem is here, this capacitor is to BIG. As I said in last post: (I used 2 layers of aluminum flushing, standard contraction grade 10 inches wide and 50 feet long and as an insulation I used 2 layers of craft paper, very thick paper is like thickness of the business card.) By the way I did reverse the High V DC power supply connectors around too. This capacitor probably needs 500.000 to 1000.000 DCV static electricity to do anything. Then if I make a power supply this high, probly it will ark betwen the 2 layers of insulator? Who knows? As I said let you guys see the pictures when I publish them very soon and we talk more about this. I'll put a link to some BB service too so we can live messages there too. Mehmet>> > >In reply to Mehmet Boysal's message of Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:20:34 : >[snip] > >But to save some labor & time I put that GC on bathroom scale to see if > >would lose some weight, you know! Folks, nothing happened! At all!!! > >000 Weight lost, all I heard was, when I turned the High V DC on made >some > >kind of hissing noise like a water flow sound that's all! >[snip] >The hissing sound was probably the sound of a high voltage spark shorting >out your plates. I suggest that this may well have ruined your GC. >Did you connect alternate plates to alternate polarities (i.e. +-+-+- ), or >did you only connect the HV to each end of the stack? >If you have connected all alternate tabs together, then I suggest you try a >9 V transistor radio battery iso the HV. >Hopefully the short has only created a carbon bridge between the plates, >and >this may not be very low resistance, so the battery may still charge the >plates, though with a leakage current. You should also measure the leakage >current. >If it isn't too bad, then you might also try a variable frequency sawtooth >generator iso the battery. > >(It would be a shame to throw away all that work, if something can still be >salvaged). > >Suggestion for anyone else building a GC - always try low voltage first! > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk > >It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do >to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 20:53:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA31610; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:53:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:53:18 -0800 Message-ID: <3A19FC43.327DFF8@groupz.net> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 23:38:27 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siWpfcUINhQ,x-ns2r2d09OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5jLXd3.0.lj7.--V6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17547 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Right angle circuitry....question.... Bill.... Do you have any idea of how much the line loss would be from the "extended transformer"....I have a micro hydro generator site...appoximately 1.5 miles from me....could go completely off the grid and sell power. However the cost and size of the wire, I would need to use, plus having to put it up high.... make the payback period extremely long...so have not been able to figure a way to do it...inexpensively.... Could normal copper household wire be used...to conduct about 5 KW....????....or maybe something else less expensive...strips of plastic..??...any thoughts would be appreciated.... steve opelc > > Here's something I had sitting around half-finished: > > RIGHT ANGLE CIRCUITRY > http://www.amasci.com/elect/mcoils.html > > "Electric energy" can be sent via current in wires, as magnetism in > ferrite strands, or as "displacement current" along rods of BaTi. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 20:56:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA00669; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:55:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:55:46 -0800 Message-ID: <3A1A002C.1D77F20A@groupz.net> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 23:55:08 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siWpfcUINhQ,x-ns2r2d09OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: GC Measurements + my own References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Vs6rJ2.0.EA.C1W6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17548 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Something I have been wondering about...in one of the descriptions of this device...it mentions charging with 12 volts DC...I don't remember what it is called...but you can charge stacked plates... with insulation between, one pair of plates at time...for example... if you charge each pair with 10 volts...and assuming no leakage and have 100 pairs of plates...you will have 1000 volts across all the plates....this idea used to be used to generate high voltages... by charging using low voltages....and then taking high voltage off the stack... steve opelc Mehmet Boysal wrote: > > << Robin I hear what you say, > Yes I did first used a low volt dc supply to check the gc to see if there > was any short at all, which was fine. > Then I did connect the house hold outlet power 120 V AC on it and was just > fine too. The problem is here, this capacitor is to BIG. As I said in last > post: (I used 2 layers of aluminum flushing, standard contraction grade > 10 inches wide and 50 feet long and as an insulation I used 2 layers of > craft paper, very thick paper is like thickness of the business card.) > By the way I did reverse the High V DC power supply connectors around too. > This capacitor probably needs 500.000 to 1000.000 DCV static electricity to > do anything. Then if I make a power supply this high, probly it will ark > betwen the 2 layers of insulator? Who knows? > As I said let you guys see the pictures when I publish them very soon and we > talk more about this. > I'll put a link to some BB service too so we can live messages there too. > Mehmet>> > > > > >In reply to Mehmet Boysal's message of Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:20:34 : > >[snip] > > >But to save some labor & time I put that GC on bathroom scale to see if > > >would lose some weight, you know! Folks, nothing happened! At all!!! > > >000 Weight lost, all I heard was, when I turned the High V DC on made > >some > > >kind of hissing noise like a water flow sound that's all! > >[snip] > >The hissing sound was probably the sound of a high voltage spark shorting > >out your plates. I suggest that this may well have ruined your GC. > >Did you connect alternate plates to alternate polarities (i.e. +-+-+- ), or > >did you only connect the HV to each end of the stack? > >If you have connected all alternate tabs together, then I suggest you try a > >9 V transistor radio battery iso the HV. > >Hopefully the short has only created a carbon bridge between the plates, > >and > >this may not be very low resistance, so the battery may still charge the > >plates, though with a leakage current. You should also measure the leakage > >current. > >If it isn't too bad, then you might also try a variable frequency sawtooth > >generator iso the battery. > > > >(It would be a shame to throw away all that work, if something can still be > >salvaged). > > > >Suggestion for anyone else building a GC - always try low voltage first! > > > >Regards, > > > >Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 21:07:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA04268; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:07:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:07:00 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: GC Measurements + my own Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:06:12 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <3A1A002C.1D77F20A@groupz.net> In-Reply-To: <3A1A002C.1D77F20A@groupz.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA04217 Resent-Message-ID: <"neuic3.0.Y21.pBW6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17549 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to sno's message of Mon, 20 Nov 2000 23:55:08 -0500: > >Something I have been wondering about...in one of the descriptions >of this device...it mentions charging with 12 volts DC...I don't >remember what it is called...but you can charge stacked plates... >with insulation between, one pair of plates at time...for example... >if you charge each pair with 10 volts...and assuming no leakage >and have 100 pairs of plates...you will have 1000 volts across >all the plates....this idea used to be used to generate high voltages... >by charging using low voltages....and then taking high voltage >off the stack... > >steve opelc This makes a lot of sense. It would also explain the individual tabs, and I could see how someone might think that the tabs should be connected together. You could even charge the whole thing with a pair of sliding contacts, one on each side, with opposite polarities on them. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 21:32:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA10952; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:31:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:31:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:31:48 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Right angle circuitry....question.... In-Reply-To: <3A19FC43.327DFF8@groupz.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"fWdl7.0._g2.8ZW6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17550 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 20 Nov 2000, sno wrote: > Bill.... > > Do you have any idea of how much the line loss would > be from the "extended transformer" It would be huge. It's only a lab curiousity at present. We'd need some sort of hyper-permeable material, the equivalent of superconductors, but for magnetism. > Could normal copper household wire be used...to conduct > about 5 KW....???? The conventional way is to find a couple of "pole pig" power transformers and use them back to back to operate a high-voltage line. (Which needs proper insulators and high poles for safety.) If the voltage is 10X, I think that means that the weight of copper in the connecting wires is 10x smaller. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 21:44:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA14755; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:43:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:43:55 -0800 Message-ID: <3A1A0B82.D86A45DB@groupz.net> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 00:43:30 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siWpfcUINhQ,x-ns2r2d09OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Right angle circuitry....question.... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DlSvF1.0.Sc3.RkW6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17551 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Yep...that is what leads to the high cost.... thanks for info.... Hmmmmm....what about that nanocrystaline material...used by bearden in the meg...?? haven't looked up its properties.. don't know where to look...... but the way is used, would think should be high permeable material..probably super expensive though.... steve William Beaty wrote: > > On Mon, 20 Nov 2000, sno wrote: > > > Bill.... > > > > Do you have any idea of how much the line loss would > > be from the "extended transformer" > > It would be huge. It's only a lab curiousity at present. We'd need some > sort of hyper-permeable material, the equivalent of superconductors, but > for magnetism. > > > Could normal copper household wire be used...to conduct > > about 5 KW....???? > > The conventional way is to find a couple of "pole pig" power transformers > and use them back to back to operate a high-voltage line. (Which needs > proper insulators and high poles for safety.) If the voltage is 10X, I > think that means that the weight of copper in the connecting wires is > 10x smaller. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 21:53:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA17347; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:53:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:53:01 -0800 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <3A19BB96.96A6A0DB@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:02:30 -0600 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Major error in MEG paper References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zsdRP1.0.uE4.zsW6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17552 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Here's something I had sitting around half-finished: > > RIGHT ANGLE CIRCUITRY > http://www.amasci.com/elect/mcoils.html > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website Is there something similair to say, set up a Poynting field? What properties would that have, and how could you do it? Daniel From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 22:37:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA26301; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:36:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:36:46 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20001120232651.18c7b380@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 23:26:51 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Right angle circuitry In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"dghpV3.0.qQ6.yVX6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17553 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Was: Major error in MEG paper Hi Bill and all, At 08:16 PM 11/20/00 -0800, you wrote: >Here's something I had sitting around half-finished: > > RIGHT ANGLE CIRCUITRY > http://www.amasci.com/elect/mcoils.html > >"Electric energy" can be sent via current in wires, as magnetism in >ferrite strands, or as "displacement current" along rods of BaTi. Yes, that's it! I guess I'll have to look more for BaTi or some such high permittivity material, as well as the magnetic materials that can be coiled, even though they cannot be insulated as well as normal wires. Long lengths of magnetic "conductors" seem to have the flux leak out of them, air still having mu(0). Also, from your drawings. having a 1 turn transformer secondary drive a capacitive load, just how much of the loop can be the dielectric? Hmmm, sounds like your previous idea of a dipole antenna and tuned circuit within a toroid. Could get no results at 60Hz, but the LC circuit wasn't as high Q as desired. > >The "electro-electret". It picks up paper bits instead of iron filings. >Use a ferroelectric core rather than a ferromagnetic core (use BaTi or PZT >ceramics, or maybe a laminated stack of copper rods, or a short hunk of >Litz wire. How would the conductors work replacing the dielectrics, as charged dipoles? Sorry Daniel, could you rephrase your question, I did not understand it? -Dave D. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 20 23:29:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA02983; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 23:28:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 23:28:58 -0800 Message-ID: <3A1A241D.9EEF3074@groupz.net> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 02:28:29 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siWpfcUINhQ,x-ns2r2d09OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <3A19FC43.327DFF8@groupz.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Fwb0d1.0.Mk.wGY6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17554 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Nanocrystalline material properties Nanocrystalline Tape Wound Cores Saturation flux.....1.45 tesla Permeabilities......up to 70,000 Very low loss Curie Temp..........570C-600C Very good frequency range Excellent temp. range Very low magnostriction http://www.bfioptilas.avnet.com/uk/catalogs/a006/a006.htm Need adobe accrobat....click "softcores" sno From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 01:59:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA00331; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 01:59:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 01:59:02 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20001120232651.18c7b380@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20001120232651.18c7b380@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 23:58:53 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Right angle circuitry Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"xetYV1.0.45.bTa6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17555 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 11:26 PM -1000 11/20/00, Dave Dameron wrote: >Yes, that's it! I guess I'll have to look more for BaTi or some such high >permittivity material, as well as the magnetic materials that can be >coiled, even though they cannot be insulated as well as normal wires. How about "insulating" then with shorted coils of insuated copper wire wrapped around the ferrous wires as if they were solenoids? Wouldn't current induced in the coils tend to keep flux confined to the core? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 02:32:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA07626; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 02:32:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 02:32:34 -0800 From: Alan Schneider To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Right angle circuitry Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:31:51 +1100 Message-ID: References: <3.0.6.16.20001120232651.18c7b380@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id CAA07601 Resent-Message-ID: <"vVmSL.0.3t1.2za6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17556 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 23:58:53 -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote: >How about "insulating" then with shorted coils of insuated copper >wire wrapped around the ferrous wires as if they were solenoids? >Wouldn't current induced in the coils tend to keep flux confined to >the core? OTOH, wouldn't they act as a shorted turn and waste a lot of energy? Alan Schneider From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 07:45:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA16475; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:45:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:45:21 -0800 Message-ID: <20001121154513.16915.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:45:13 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: My Grav-cap Works! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"sDOdS3.0.J14.GYf6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17557 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Lou: Rarified air and high voltage maks plasma At 03:58 PM 11/20/00 -0600, you wrote: I don't suppose there's a snowball's chance in Guam of anyone repeating this experiment in a small vacuum chamber? --Lou <> __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 08:32:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA03772; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:31:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:31:17 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20001121091659.24971c2c@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:16:59 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Right angle circuitry In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20001120232651.18c7b380@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.20001120232651.18c7b380@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ShDdw.0.dw.9Dg6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17558 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Rick and all, At 11:58 PM 11/20/00 -1000, you wrote: > >>Yes, that's it! I guess I'll have to look more for BaTi or some such high >>permittivity material, as well as the magnetic materials that can be >>coiled, even though they cannot be insulated as well as normal wires. > >How about "insulating" then with shorted coils of insuated copper >wire wrapped around the ferrous wires as if they were solenoids? >Wouldn't current induced in the coils tend to keep flux confined to >the core? That would be an interesting test to compare with air gaps. The Diaz example had the magnetic material wound in turns in 3 layers, close wound, it seems that would have quite a bit of leakage! Alan wrote: >OTOH, wouldn't they act as a shorted turn and waste a lot of energy? Yes, there would be circulating currents in the turns, the same as a conducting shield around normal coils. If the conductance was high enough, the energy loss could be small, the limit would be superconducting turns, still insulated along the length of the magnetic material. -Dave D. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 12:37:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA25030; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:36:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:36:39 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:35:57 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [FG]: My Grav-cap Works! X-Sender-Ip: 143.210.81.65 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"af6dx3.0.l66.Mpj6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17559 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com How is ion wind going to contribute lift inside a tightly bound book though? James O. Batchelor On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:45:13 Charles Ford wrote: >Lou: > >Rarified air and high voltage maks plasma > >At 03:58 PM 11/20/00 -0600, you wrote: > >I don't suppose there's a snowball's chance in Guam of anyone >repeating this experiment in a small vacuum chamber? > >--Lou > ><> > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. >http://shopping.yahoo.com/ > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 12:57:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA31270; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:56:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:56:44 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:55:59 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Sender-Ip: 143.210.81.65 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Uis0H3.0.sd7.C6k6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17560 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Invisible Tesla Coils Dear All, I just noticed a bizarre Tesla Coil effect which some of you may be familiar with - perhaps you might explain it to me. I was browsing a few random dotcoms when I hit upon Teslacoil.com - a special effects company URL. Their promotional video shows a BIG coil in operation - maybe 20 feet high. When the energy flares off the toroid though, it doesn't come from the toroid su rface, but from the surface of an invisible sphere surrounding the toroid. The lightning manifests only about 6 inches off the toroid itself - the inner area is free of sparks. Anyone familiar with this? James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 13:07:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA02062; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:06:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:06:25 -0800 Message-ID: <004c01c053fe$4a24d3e0$99d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:01:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0049_01C053D4.60C0E3C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"JKMkP.0.3W.HFk6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17561 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: molten metal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C053D4.60C0E3C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone done any electrical experiments involving molten metal = (no, I don't mean short circuits)? ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C053D4.60C0E3C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Has anyone done any electrical = experiments=20 involving molten metal (no, I don't mean short=20 circuits)?

------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C053D4.60C0E3C0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 14:04:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA18643; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:03:16 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:03:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001f01c05404$d93b04e0$c98dabac@deanarde> From: "ardvark" To: References: <004c01c053fe$4a24d3e0$99d666ce@default> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:48:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01C05404.D8054400" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Apparently-From: Tillyzena@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"9N5uc2.0.2Z4.Y4l6w"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17562 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: molten metal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C05404.D8054400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What kind of experiments with which molten metal? I have tinkered with mercury a little, does that count? If it does, = what would you like to know? Later, Dean. ardvark@ukonline.co.uk Chris O'Barr wrote: Has anyone done any electrical experiments involving molten metal = (no, I don't mean short circuits)? ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C05404.D8054400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

What kind of experiments with which = molten=20 metal?

I have tinkered with mercury a little, does = that=20 count? If it does, what would you like to know?

Later,

=20 Dean.

ardvark@ukonline.co.uk<= /DIV>

Chris O'Barr wrote:

Has anyone done any electrical=20 experiments involving molten metal (no, I don't mean short=20 circuits)?

------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C05404.D8054400-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 15:35:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA05251; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:35:01 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:35:01 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <004c01c053fe$4a24d3e0$99d666ce@default> References: <004c01c053fe$4a24d3e0$99d666ce@default> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:34:40 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: molten metal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"JsCZm2.0.sH1.WQm6w"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17563 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I have done some with low melt solder and high currents. I like those "pinch" effects. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 16:31:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA26620; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:30:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:30:21 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [63.253.17.33] From: "Mehmet Boysal" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 00:29:47 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Nov 2000 00:29:48.0125 (UTC) FILETIME=[51E5F8D0:01C0541B] Resent-Message-ID: <"U0dZR1.0.dV6.TEn6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17564 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: GC. Pictures are uploaded. <> Both sites are the same nbci site was so slow today thats why these is a second location too. http://www.geocities.com/mksboysal/index/ http://members.nbci.com/freeneryg_research/ (this link has a background midi) _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 16:39:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA15581; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:38:40 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:38:40 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [63.253.17.33] From: "Mehmet Boysal" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: GC Measurements + my own+site is up Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 00:36:29 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Nov 2000 00:36:29.0080 (UTC) FILETIME=[40E2D980:01C0541C] Resent-Message-ID: <"c8IKG2.0.Ip3.CMn6w"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17565 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com < >and have 100 pairs of plates...you will have 1000 volts across > >all the plates....this idea used to be used to generate high voltages... How about using real capacitors that can hold tremendeous charge microfarad range, then discharge them as you said in series sure power gratly will multiply. Not only Voltage but also Amprage is well. (About 8 years a go I build a frequency unjustable rotating SCR electronic swiching device to multuply the power, but what happened was more light bulbs I connected out put of scr's more current started to drow, so there was no efficincy! But I have to say that I even purchased 8 big capacitors it was like 200 MF 300 DC each they hold very high charing power, when I used to discharge then they used to explode like a hangun "with Big BANG". But as I recal now I forgot altogether to charge and discharge the capacitors. Just like the way you said. It seems logical that if you charge say 10 capacitors with 12 Volt at 3 Amps each, you connect them in series will they actualy give you 120 V DC at 36 AMP ? That is the question I have? I hope some one with a better knowledge will give us an answer here. Mehmet.>> > >In reply to sno's message of Mon, 20 Nov 2000 23:55:08 -0500: > > > > >Something I have been wondering about...in one of the descriptions > >of this device...it mentions charging with 12 volts DC...I don't > >remember what it is called...but you can charge stacked plates... > >with insulation between, one pair of plates at time...for example... > >if you charge each pair with 10 volts...and assuming no leakage > >and have 100 pairs of plates...you will have 1000 volts across > >all the plates....this idea used to be used to generate high voltages... > >by charging using low voltages....and then taking high voltage > >off the stack... > > > >steve opelc >This makes a lot of sense. It would also explain the individual tabs, and I >could see how someone might think that the tabs should be connected >together. >You could even charge the whole thing with a pair of sliding contacts, one >on each side, with opposite polarities on them. > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk > >It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do >to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 17:40:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA01424; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:39:16 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:39:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Kevin Weaver" To: "Freenrg-L@Eskimo. Com" Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:36:43 -0600 Message-ID: <000101c05424$ab768140$0200a8c0@home.ns.vvm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"Rl_ij1.0.rL.vEo6w"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17566 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: VDG sphere Hi all Just found a really good price on stainless steel spheres for a VDG with a mirror finish. Mirror Ball 10" Price: $25.99 Mirror Ball 12" Price: $31.99 Mirror Ball 16" Price: $69.99 Mirror Ball 20" Price: $129.99 Am wondering what kind of voltage i can get from a 16" or 20" sphere ? But anyways it's the the best price i have found yet. You can get them at http://www.waterscapesweb.com/orbs.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 19:12:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA16130; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:11:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:11:34 -0800 Message-ID: <3A1B38B1.6FDE2F6@enter.net> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:08:33 -0500 From: David Rosignoli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: VDG sphere References: <000101c05424$ab768140$0200a8c0@home.ns.vvm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WZjCq3.0.xx3.bbp6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17567 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com These are great, but are they solid? I imagine that they are made from casts. If you want a good VDG terminal, you can put one together by metal spinning. That's what is normally done. And is MUCH cheaper. But you need access to a lathe, or be good at hammering. Lindsay Publications sells books on this, if you're interested. Kevin Weaver wrote: > > Hi all > > Just found a really good price on stainless steel spheres for a VDG with > a mirror finish. > > Mirror Ball 10" Price: $25.99 > Mirror Ball 12" Price: $31.99 > Mirror Ball 16" Price: $69.99 > Mirror Ball 20" Price: $129.99 > > Am wondering what kind of voltage i can get from a 16" or 20" sphere ? > > But anyways it's the the best price i have found yet. You can get them at > http://www.waterscapesweb.com/orbs.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 19:24:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA17163; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:24:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:24:09 -0800 Message-ID: <002501c05433$32895460$74736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: References: <000101c05424$ab768140$0200a8c0@home.ns.vvm.com> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:20:41 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"3A--G.0.rB4.Pnp6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17568 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: VDG sphere hello kevin what do these various spheres have to do with free energy or antigravity? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Weaver" To: "Freenrg-L@Eskimo. Com" Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 5:36 PM Subject: [FG]: VDG sphere > Hi all > > Just found a really good price on stainless steel spheres for a VDG with > a mirror finish. > > Mirror Ball 10" Price: $25.99 > Mirror Ball 12" Price: $31.99 > Mirror Ball 16" Price: $69.99 > Mirror Ball 20" Price: $129.99 > > Am wondering what kind of voltage i can get from a 16" or 20" sphere ? > > But anyways it's the the best price i have found yet. You can get them at > http://www.waterscapesweb.com/orbs.html > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 20:41:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA29467; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:40:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:40:39 -0800 Message-ID: <3A1B4DDA.90802A72@groupz.net> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 23:38:50 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siWpfcUINhQ,x-ns2r2d09OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: GC. Pictures are uploaded...comment.. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mpeI73.0.KC7.6vq6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17569 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com First very good wood work...and liked the way you got the roll tight....and how you constructed your way of making roll.....good thinking... What you have constructed does not appear to be a capacitor...as it only has one plate....a capacitor has two plates, separated by a insulator, when charged one plate is positive and one is negative. If you do this it appears that nothing will happen, however the different charges, on the two plates cause a stress in the space between...and that stress will remain when you remove the battery... A capacitor, therefore stores a charge...(like a little battery itself)....the charge will be at the voltage of the battery... A rolled capacitor (similar to what you have constructed)...is common....see picture on this page.... http://www.hills2.u-net.com/tesla/tccap.htm The anti gravity stack capacitor has specially shaped plates....there are a number of them stacked together....the theory being that the biefied brown effect...or some other effect...causes the whole stack to move in the direction of the positive plates... No one know if works for sure, as some have said they have constructed and it worked...and some say have constructed and has not.....neither of these have shown pictures of the device working, or not working as you have..... Here is site that shows how the plates should be made (the shape)....and put together... http://www.amasci.com/caps/capwarp.html If you read all of page...and links off of, I think you will get the idea....however it shows the plates made out of tin....no one knows if will work with aluminum.... Tbe pictures and directions show the tabs on the plates connected together....I do not think this is correct... if you charge a bunch of stacked capacitors like shown, you will only get the applied charge...if you charge them separately you will get the voltage of each capacitor added together....ex: if you charge each pair to 10 volts, and have 100 pairs...the total voltage across the stack will be 1000 volts.... The charge would be pos,neg,pos,neg,pos,neg....etc.... If you want to do some more work....and because you are so creative, you may be able to figure out a easy way, to cut the material in the pattern shown...that is the big thing, that is holding up most people from trying this.... If you do try to do this, then try charging separate plates first...as I have outlined....before you try with the tabs connected together..... Also you have to be careful, when you charge each individual capacitor. As if the voltage is to high, the stress between the plates, especially with a insulator like paper, will cause the current to jump right through the paper....like a small lightening bolt...making a hole in paper and capacitor will no longer be able to hold as much charge....that is probably what happened when you heard the hissing sound....little sparks going through the paper....where the hole is...it will probably be a pinprick hole...and very hard to find if you take apart. Hope this helps....have fun........and good work.... I am going to post this on the free energy list...so may get some more ideas....or corrections to what I have said... steve opelc Mehmet Boysal wrote: > > < GC that I couldn't make it to work yet, > 17 pic are uploded under the untigravity experements. > Also there is a door for BB messages. > Enjoy it. > Mehmet.>> > > Both sites are the same nbci site was so slow today thats why these is a > second location too. > > http://www.geocities.com/mksboysal/index/ > > http://members.nbci.com/freeneryg_research/ > (this link has a background midi) > > _____________________________________________________________________________________ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 20:52:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA02809; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:51:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:51:46 -0800 From: "Kevin Weaver" To: Subject: [FG]: Re: VDG sphere Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:49:21 -0600 Message-ID: <000501c0543f$9441ffc0$0200a8c0@home.ns.vvm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <002501c05433$32895460$74736bc6@compaq> Resent-Message-ID: <"XeDC82.0.oh.X3r6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17570 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Edward Sorry if i am off topic but i had the idea that some of these experiments were being powered with Van De Graaff machines. Wont post again. > -----Original Message----- > From: edward webber [mailto:coronav@wcn.net] > Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 9:21 PM > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: [FG]: Re: VDG sphere > > > hello kevin > what do these various spheres have to do with free energy or antigravity? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 20:53:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA03154; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:52:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:52:38 -0800 Message-ID: <3A1B50AA.B74A1C6E@groupz.net> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 23:50:50 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siWpfcUINhQ,x-ns2r2d09OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: GC Measurements + my own+site is up References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rPSZE3.0.Bn.M4r6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17571 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com The bigger the plates, the more charge can be stored...and the more current can be supplied...but since the current when you discharge, is released all at once...it can be tremendous....that is why a charged capacitor can be so dangerous....and it can hold charge for unbelievable amounts of time....if well made.....so when working with capacitors of any large size, you need to be careful not to touch both ends of it...and discharge it before you handle it....(connect a conductor between the plates/wires) .......when working with large capacitors it is best to make a discharge device....a long, dry, wood pole...with wires on end to discharge the capacitor..... A stack, as you have noticed, will act like a single large capacitor and also will be dangerous.... steve Mehmet Boysal wrote: > > < you said: if you charge each pair with 10 volts...and assuming no leakage > > >and have 100 pairs of plates...you will have 1000 volts across > > >all the plates....this idea used to be used to generate high voltages... > How about using real capacitors that can hold tremendeous charge microfarad > range, then discharge them as you said in series sure power gratly will > multiply. Not only Voltage but also Amprage is well. > (About 8 years a go I build a frequency unjustable rotating SCR electronic > swiching device to multuply the power, but what happened was > more light bulbs I connected out put of scr's more current started to drow, > so there was no efficincy! > But I have to say that I even purchased 8 big capacitors it was like 200 MF > 300 DC each they hold very high charing power, when I used to discharge then > they used to explode like a hangun "with Big BANG". > But as I recal now I forgot altogether to charge and discharge the > capacitors. Just like the way you said. > > It seems logical that if you charge say 10 capacitors with 12 Volt at 3 Amps > each, you connect them in series will they actualy give you 120 V DC at 36 > AMP ? That is the question I have? > > I hope some one with a better knowledge will give us an answer here. > Mehmet.>> > > > > >In reply to sno's message of Mon, 20 Nov 2000 23:55:08 -0500: > > > > > > > >Something I have been wondering about...in one of the descriptions > > >of this device...it mentions charging with 12 volts DC...I don't > > >remember what it is called...but you can charge stacked plates... > > >with insulation between, one pair of plates at time...for example... > > >if you charge each pair with 10 volts...and assuming no leakage > > >and have 100 pairs of plates...you will have 1000 volts across > > >all the plates....this idea used to be used to generate high voltages... > > >by charging using low voltages....and then taking high voltage > > >off the stack... > > > > > >steve opelc > >This makes a lot of sense. It would also explain the individual tabs, and I > >could see how someone might think that the tabs should be connected > >together. > >You could even charge the whole thing with a pair of sliding contacts, one > >on each side, with opposite polarities on them. > > > >Regards, > > > >Robin van Spaandonk > > > >It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do > >to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. > > > > _____________________________________________________________________________________ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 21:38:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA18918; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:37:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:37:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:37:50 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: VDG sphere In-Reply-To: <000501c0543f$9441ffc0$0200a8c0@home.ns.vvm.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"XwELr1.0.Sd4.pkr6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17572 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 21 Nov 2000, Kevin Weaver wrote: > Sorry if i am off topic but i had the idea that some of these experiments > were being powered with Van De Graaff machines. Wont post again. Those spheres are cheap! Other suppliers want about 2x more. Also, the gravity-capacitor report from Mr. "S" used a VDG machine as the power supply. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 22:12:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA31006; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:11:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:11:47 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: GC Measurements + my own+site is up Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 17:11:10 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA30983 Resent-Message-ID: <"F-Ozg1.0.Na7.YEs6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17573 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Mehmet Boysal's message of Wed, 22 Nov 2000 00:36:29 : [snip] >How about using real capacitors that can hold tremendeous charge microfarad >range, then discharge them as you said in series sure power gratly will >multiply. Not only Voltage but also Amprage is well. [snip] Hi Mehmet, I don't think you can use normal capacitors, because they are usually cylindrical. That means that the charge distribution is also cylindrical, and any anti-grav effect would be as well, i.e. radial. This isn't much use if you want to go in a straight line. That's why the GC has the plates stacked like dishes. Then the thrust direction is along the axis of the stack (if there is any). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 22:14:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA32631; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:14:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:14:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:14:06 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: "Freenrg-L@Eskimo. Com" Subject: Re: [FG]: VDG sphere In-Reply-To: <000101c05424$ab768140$0200a8c0@home.ns.vvm.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"x9CA-1.0.hz7.nGs6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17574 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 21 Nov 2000, Kevin Weaver wrote: > Am wondering what kind of voltage i can get from a 16" or 20" sphere ? If I recall, the voltage at a sphere surface just before air breakdown is approx V=D*30,000, where D is diameter in cm. So a 20" sphere would give about 1,500,000 volts. > But anyways it's the the best price i have found yet. You can get them at > http://www.waterscapesweb.com/orbs.html I forwarded the link to the physics teaching forum. They can always find a use for inexpensive HV electrodes. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 22:15:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA01325; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:15:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:15:32 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Invisible Tesla Coils Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 17:14:55 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA01244 Resent-Message-ID: <"F1H1C.0.cK.4Is6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17575 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to James Owen Batchelor's message of Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:55:59 0000: [snip] >sphere surrounding the toroid. The lightning manifests only about 6 inches >off the toroid itself - the inner area is free of sparks. Anyone familiar >with this? > >James O. Batchelor [snip] Hi James, You didn't happen to note the frequency of the coil secondary did you (I'm wondering if this is a near field effect, and for that one would have to know the wavelength). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 23:16:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA25980; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 23:15:41 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 23:15:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20001122071507.24405.qmail@web4405.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 23:15:07 -0800 (PST) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"jgGAZ3.0.kL6.QAt6w"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17576 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Hillbilly Scope Pictures /Antigravity Lecture With all the antigravity business going on, I thought it apt to produce my own model. It far surpasses the amateurisch musings ventured forth in the freenrg-list to my knowledge, but of course I stand to be corrected. To be corrected first people should see the parts. An Example of these massive parts is contained at http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/anomolous.html I have there recorded the electric fields coming from a small aluminum foil plate shown in the bottom picture via a square magnetic inductor. The huge coils are not ferromagnetic, making them easy to produce high frequency oscillations. In the first hillbilly scope picture made from taking a digital camera picture from a television set: this was done jokingly to indicate "hillbilly scientific reasoning." At that time I may have believed the impossible which indicated that several oscillations during the same time period were occuring as the first jpeg shows. However later reasonings showed this to be impossible and to be a delusion created by interfacing of the oscilloscope at a high sweep rate/ vs the limited 60 Hz sweep rate of the recording VHS camera; which in turn uses another software program for digitalization for the web page pictures. Atlas Shrugged becomes a semi discarded theory. Is it possible to produce an oscillation that is faster than time itself will permit? At first the evidence seemed to exist to prove that/ and later disproved by accounting for the actual time periods of sweeps that would occur in a single VHS camera sweep., and all the jpegs submitted in many web pages then became only instances of "overlap of sweeps/recorded time period" Thus the next jpeg on the page shows the high continuity of vibrations attained in real 60 hz measuring time, @2ms/div,assuring the observer that things are only oscillating very well about 50% of the time period. To make an very easy point the antigravity effect has been more aptly indicated not simply by the actual voltage charge via Biefeld/Brown effect but more properly dv/dt or the rate of change of potential. Here I have supplied an excellant example of oscillating that potential which would probably weigh less than a simple high voltage set of plates charged to an equally high potential. It rings 50% of the time, but that is not good enough. To make it better than good enough, it should ring 150% of the time, now you have a center piece than can be weighed from the interaction of THREE HF phases designed to equally produce that oscillation. Thus an idea in conception was initially thought impossible by common sense: later believed to be real by misconception, and finally realized by virtual realization. Isnt God a Great Light Bulb? From each according to his ability/to each according to his needs. A kind of triangular kite is made for this idea, but that seems only the beginning of things which go on and on. Of course I should have some kind of web page up soon: shoewing the components and test results/a la Ed Sullivan Sincerely Working for the Future HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Nov 21 23:38:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA23005; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 23:38:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 23:38:32 -0800 Message-ID: <20001122073759.13677.qmail@web4406.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 23:37:59 -0800 (PST) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"rgMhm.0.Hd5.uVt6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17577 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: VHS tape frame timing reference Im glad someone noted this! (from tesla list)... Just to support John Freau assertion I extract some frames from a video, as you know video is to slow to capture spark growing on one bang: on video you have 15.4 millisecond capture 1.3 millisecond black or 60 frames by second with a pause of .0013 second between each frames. On tesla coil if you studied one bang you find: The bang duration is in the order of .2 millisecond depending of the frequency, coupling and quenching check that paper from Terry http://hot-streamer.com/TeslaCoils/MyPapers/modact/modact.html and for the video capture http://pages.infinit.net/luc2/streamer_grow.jpg (HDN comment; The BPS that my device displays is far beyond the typical BPS rate of a tesla coil/however On Tesla Electric Co Web Pages I have shown some scope forms that the HF event seems to vanish through the scope trace: I only presented that as idle speculation as to what was occuring/ now this explanation seems a step closer to realizing what we view through the instrument is in accordance with that reality. There is a blank spot imposed by the VHS recorder. What if that blank spot was your brain!} HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Nov 22 05:44:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA11874; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 05:44:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 05:44:25 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 13:43:44 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [FG]: GC. Pictures are uploaded. X-Sender-Ip: 143.210.85.105 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Bo93N.0.Nv2.usy6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17578 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is not the GC that I'm working on, but it reminds me of the experiment where a bismuth foil strip, coiled like Mehmet's took off through the roof at Mach 10. This isn't a Grav-Cap as we know it, but may be useful anyway. Hell - the capacitance must be huge though! James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Nov 22 05:49:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA14441; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 05:49:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 05:49:05 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 13:48:23 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [FG]: Invisible Tesla Coils X-Sender-Ip: 143.210.85.105 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vqO3v1.0.YX3.Hxy6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17579 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk > >It's no good just telling people to stop doing whatever they do >to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. > > Nope, but just visit www.teslacoil.com, email them and quote the code of the coil in question (its in their promo video) James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Nov 22 06:56:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA04457; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 06:56:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 06:56:22 -0800 Message-ID: <002a01c05493$9c627dc0$0364c8c8@mindspring> From: "John Lighton" To: References: <000501c0543f$9441ffc0$0200a8c0@home.ns.vvm.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: VDG sphere Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 06:50:49 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"wsYhL.0.Y51.Mwz6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17580 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Hi Edward > > Sorry if i am off topic but i had the idea that some of these experiments > were being powered with Van De Graaff machines. Wont post again. > Kevin, if you find useful objects that may be of interest to fringe science folks, I for one would greatly appreciate your bringing them to the list's attention. This is a science list and, despite what one wannabe list cops might believe, there is more to science than musing and posing. *Doing* science is where most of the progress has been and is being made. As an example, VDGs are an excellent source of high voltage for experiments and a metal sphere will hold a higher voltage without arcing than any other practical geometric shape. Large metal spheres aren't easy to find, and Kevin did a service to the list by bringing them to our attention. I for one would rather read Kevin's posting than any number of naive questions that could have been answered by consulting an undergraduate physics textbook - and that would have been flamed on a less polite list. Keep up the good work, Kevin. John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Nov 22 07:29:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA17007; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 07:28:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 07:28:47 -0800 Message-ID: <3A1BE5C6.95E8748F@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 17:27:02 +0200 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: MEG Measurements References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xgs5o1.0.e94.lO-6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17581 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Bill, William Beaty wrote: > > On Mon, 20 Nov 2000, hamdi ucar wrote: > > > > > "JNL Labs" never respond to questions, comments, to suggestions, > > meaningfully at least. What is the purpose of their publicly accessible > > site and their announcements. A multimedia show, a promotion, a kind of > > business? > > The alternative? To be secretive. ...and to catch flack for it! > > :) Do you believe there are achievements by JNL labs worth to keep in secret? :) Total secretive work is sometimes needed, until a full disclosure, if one work on advanced project. Restricted access to an project is also make sense like JNL Labs is doing, and a public access pages are useful to get more members to growth a team. What is wrong here IMO, over promotion with questionable success reports. > It's > difficult to achive exact replications without plenty of detailed photos > of the original expeirment. Mediamatic quality of the reports are very nice. Sure, photos are absolutely required for understanding, visualization and replications. However, if one attempt to replicate these experiment will see that exposed data is far from sufficient to do it. The material look like more suitable for newspapers rather than scientific research. > Much of the JLN site seems to be intended to promote replications. (commented ot of order) This my concern. Site promote replication some phenomena reported by earlier experimenters, inventors and theoreticians, by SPECIFIC SETUP designed by JNL Labs. When a positive result is reported incorrectly from a design or wrong procedure which cannot n ever lead a positive result, people attempting to replicate the experiment using the data of JNL labs, will never get positive results also. This is same as giving wrong cheat in an exam. It guarantees the failure of reproduction of the effect. Cumulative consequence is these failures by many experimenters getting negative results may discredit the original claims and the phenomena. Once I worked on experiments designed by ATG with private correspondence. Although I could not build the exact setup and reach their some results, I had obtained many anomalies and artifacts doing extensive work, and my conclusion is ATG had reached posit ive results. JNL had also performed some experiment on these designs. From my analysis, JNL had not obtained the effects and anomalies, but pretend they had. On ATG designs I believe and I observed, reproducibility is very very hard, just like throwing di ces in a specific manner and obtain same numbers. May microscopic structure of wires, thickness of enamels, smoothness of the wires (which is degraded by reel (bobbin) transfer) and uncontrolled electronic properties of semiconductors elements are played roles on the phenomena, which are impossible to duplicate. In general many anomalous and unexpected phenomena can be observed when electronics components and circuits are driven with out of range signals, frequencies ,voltages and currents. (This is the main responsibility of engineers trying to avoid, while desi gning reliable circuits :)) For example not all two coils wounded exactly by same wire, same turns and same geometry behave same at out of range frequencies, despite they are same at normal conditions. Anomalous effects are very unstable and transient, very rarely just obtained by simply powering the circuit, which is just tuned and ready from the previous run. In contrast, JNL obtain their result very straight forward, without any critical arrangement and conditions, surprisingly. I know this methodology is not suitable for this specific design, and guarantees failure of others following JNL data. > I suppose his main "crime" is to make a living from his work. (Or does he > even do this?) As long as we fund our fringe-sci research out of pocket, > and earn a living from a day job, it's hard for people to find fault. > Popular sites attract huge amounts of email. Maybe Jean-Louis needs MORE > funding, so that he can hire a fulltime secretary to answer his mail. > The problem is not some unanswered questions but total dismissal of questions, comments and suggestions, any kind of correspondence, and still pretending an open research. Is there any difference between Mill's Black Light Power Institute and JNL Labs in this context? When I balance positive and negative contribution of JNL Labs to FE research, the gain is questionable. Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Nov 22 08:57:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA18015; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:56:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:56:05 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 16:55:09 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Sender-Ip: 143.210.85.106 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1-Fip.0.BP4.bg_6w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17582 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Mehmet's GC pix location. Michael, The address of Mehmet's GC is http://www.geocities.com/mksboysal/index/page2.html but it's not the same as mine, or has anything to do with me. James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Nov 22 08:59:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA21466; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:58:05 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:58:02 -0800 (PST) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 16:57:20 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Sender-Ip: 143.210.85.106 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zxQTc.0.CF5.Qi_6w"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17583 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: ARDA is famous! Dear All, I'm way behind the times (sorry!), but has ayone seen the front cover of the Electric Spacecraft Journal, issue 30? It features a certain aircraft which JLN might well be familiar with..... :) Try this: http://websearch.cs.com/cs/results/cssearch-frameset.adp?hit_url=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2echeta%2enet%2fdsi%2fesj%2fbissues%2ehtm&first=31&dfirst=1&sTerm=searl%20effect&type=I&brand=CSI&tabs=Y&serviceType=CServe&uType=2583300&dateRange=0&channel=&gfirst=0 James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Nov 22 11:50:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA02057; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 11:48:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 11:48:43 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <5a.d54ae48.274d7ced@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:47:57 EST To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, tlamb3@mindspring.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_5a.d54ae48.274d7ced_boundary" X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"yKljr.0.vV.QC27w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17584 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Very simple to build this one --part1_5a.d54ae48.274d7ced_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit See attached, Magnets are attracted to ferrite (Circuit open), work done here, Then as magnets line up with ferrite, circuit is closed and forces are equal but opposite and rotor magnets move out with no work having to be done. Power used against zero back emf is now recovered from capacitor for recycle. Thanks, Butch --part1_5a.d54ae48.274d7ced_boundary Content-Type: image/gif; name="LR2.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="LR2.gif" R0lGODdhMwLMAfcAAAAAAAAA/wD/AL29vd7e3ufn5+/v7/8AAP97AP////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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Resent-Message-ID: <"Ul-lz.0.oY1.mh27w"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17585 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Does everyone agree with this? --part1_1e.d88d62e.274d84b6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit See attached --part1_1e.d88d62e.274d84b6_boundary Content-Type: image/gif; name="OK.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="OK.gif" R0lGODdhZQFbAfcAADExMTk5OUJCQkpKSlJSUlpaWmNjY2tra3Nzc3t7e3uEe4SEhISMhIyM jIyUjJSUlJSclJycnJylnKWlpaWtpa2tra21rbW1tbW9tb29vb3GvcbGxsbOxs7Ozs7WztbW 1tbe1t7e3t7n3ufn5+fv5+/v7+/37/f39/f/9/////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"lIGUR2.0.ue1.5U47w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17586 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C054A4.25EE0720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yah, murcury counts. I was just curious as to what kind of = "electrical phenomena" molten metals produce. Anything come to mind? -----Original Message----- From: ardvark To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 5:17 PM Subject: [FG]: Re: molten metal What kind of experiments with which molten metal? I have tinkered with mercury a little, does that count? If it does, = what would you like to know? Later, Dean. ardvark@ukonline.co.uk Chris O'Barr wrote: Has anyone done any electrical experiments involving molten = metal (no, I don't mean short circuits)? ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C054A4.25EE0720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yah, murcury counts. I was = just=20 curious as to what kind of "electrical phenomena" molten metals = produce. =20 Anything come to mind?

-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 ardvark <ardvark@easynet.co.uk>
To:=20 freenrg-l@eskimo.com = <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
D= ate:=20 Tuesday, November 21, 2000 5:17 PM
Subject: [FG]: Re: = molten=20 metal

What kind of experiments with which = molten=20 metal?

I have tinkered with mercury a little, = does that=20 count? If it does, what would you like to know?

Later,

=20 Dean.

ardvark@ukonline.co.uk<= /DIV>

Chris O'Barr wrote:

Has anyone done any = electrical=20 experiments involving molten metal (no, I don't mean short=20 circuits)?

------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C054A4.25EE0720-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Nov 22 16:09:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA32664; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 16:08:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 16:08:44 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <10.5436f46.274db9d1@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 19:07:45 EST To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, newman-l@emachine.com, tlamb3@mindspring.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_10.5436f46.274db9d1_boundary" X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"ekd7i3.0.5-7.C067w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17587 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: This WILL do it! See attached --part1_10.5436f46.274db9d1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit See attached. Inductions are equal but opposite (circuit closed). Rotor can be moved out with almost no work, attraction force on bottom coil is neutral due to balance section. The top ferrite attraction phase (circuit open) does work to shaft. It all fell together today. 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this! --part1_83.3456aeb.274e0f2e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I have the motor and the generator action (a kind of back emf) going toward each other, but between the two coils! They really go toward the power supply! This makes things so simple now. See the attached drawing. I can use my existing test unit to verify what I state in the drawing. A motor, a generator, and an attraction motor with the circuit open. It has taken a lot of hard work and a lot of mistakes to get to this point, but it is well worth it. Thanks, Butch LaFonte --part1_83.3456aeb.274e0f2e_boundary Content-Type: image/gif; name="TG.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="TG.gif" R0lGODdhwgLVAfcAAAAAAAAA/wD/AL29vd7e3ufn5+/v7/8AAP97AP////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 110 Resent-Message-ID: <"tFahQ2.0.2T7.8RC7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17589 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Congratulations to you, and your Team! This is a great day, one to be remembered in history. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Nov 23 06:30:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA27713; Thu, 23 Nov 2000 06:30:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 06:30:20 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 09:29:45 EST To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, newman-l@emachine.com CC: Lafonte11648@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"OxF1N1.0.sm6.ydI7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17590 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Drawing on web page The current design can be seen at http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/myhomepage/profile.html Note: The color code says air core coils. That is an error, the coils all have ferrite cores. Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Nov 23 08:12:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA17059; Thu, 23 Nov 2000 08:12:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 08:12:03 -0800 Message-ID: <001301c05568$7aed36a0$2d3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 11:14:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0553E.8E746560" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"-tDUA1.0.KA4.J7K7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17591 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Two Small Topics This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0553E.8E746560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gentlemen; For those in the US, happy Thanksgiving. For those abroad, happy = Thursday. Two small items for the table; a quick update and a new item that might = fall into the "unclassified" category... First of all, Sam Faile and I have continued to examine the GaN LED = current anomaly which as some of you know seems to be highly dependent = on the mode of measurement. Were the magnitude of this anomaly more = limited, I would readily have written it off to UHF influence on = different meters, since the GaN LEDs seem to act like Gunn oscillators = at low currents. (maximum RF effects seem to occur at forward current = levels where the LED is dim; around .2 to .5 mA) Sam is in the process of building an array of 100 GaN green devices. to = see what the effect does at extreme levels. He reports that 8 of these = devices in parallel have given current anomaly values of over 300% with = a novel combination that might also be increasing the RF "chaos" factor. = In the main trunk of the circuit, he places in a forward bias = direction, a red GaAlAs LED. I myself have ordered 8 green GaN devices to work in parallel with Sam. Now, for something completely different. This is an effect that I still haven't figured out after a good 6 or 7 = years. It was shown to me by a fine mad scientist type from Cleveland. = Rather than try to come up with a theory for it, here is the = description. One starts with a lead zirconate titanate disc PZT of a size often seen = on the surplus market - about 2.25" by 1/8" thick, with silvered faces. = A few years ago, these were available from R&D Electronics in Cleveland. These have an interesting attribute. They have a resonant frequency at = about 25 kHz or so, but they also have what is called an "anti-resonant" = frequency at a little under 45kHz. This seems to be a point where = impedence is at a minimum. One connects the PZT to a signal generator and amplifier; only a few = watts is needed, and set the frequency precisely to the anti-resonant = point. Now here is the neat thing. If you place a finger, or toe on the PZT or = touch the PZT even lightly to any part of the body while it is pulsed at = this anti-resonant frequency, you will hear very strongly in your head a = frequency that seems to be around 8 to 10 kHz. Bone conduction? If so why does one hear a frequency much lower than = the 45 kHz of the PZT, and ONLY at the anti-resonant point of the PZT. = No other frequency other than that which you could hear anyway will do = this trick. It also works when only lightly touching to a fleshy part = of the body; no firm bone contact is needed. Any thoughts? Tis very odd, and I offer it to you. NR ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0553E.8E746560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Gentlemen;

For those in the US, happy = Thanksgiving. For those abroad, happy Thursday.

Two small items for the table; a quick = update and a=20 new item that might fall into the "unclassified" = category...

First of all, Sam Faile and I have = continued to=20 examine the GaN LED current anomaly which as some of you know seems to = be highly=20 dependent on the mode of measurement. Were the magnitude of this = anomaly=20 more limited, I would readily have written it off to UHF influence on = different=20 meters, since the GaN LEDs seem to act like Gunn oscillators at low = currents.=20 (maximum RF effects seem to occur at forward current levels where the = LED is=20 dim; around .2 to .5 mA)

Sam is in the process of building an = array of 100=20 GaN green devices. to see what the effect does at extreme levels. = He=20 reports that 8 of these devices in parallel have given current anomaly = values of=20 over 300% with a novel combination that might also be increasing the RF = "chaos"=20 factor. In the main trunk of the circuit, he places in a forward = bias=20 direction, a red GaAlAs LED.

I myself have ordered 8 green GaN = devices to work=20 in parallel with Sam.

Now, for something completely=20 different.

This is an effect that I still haven't = figured out=20 after a good 6 or 7 years. It was shown to me by a fine mad = scientist type=20 from Cleveland. Rather than try to come up with a theory for it, = here is=20 the description.

One starts with a lead zirconate = titanate disc PZT=20 of a size often seen on the surplus market - about 2.25" by 1/8" thick, = with=20 silvered faces. A few years ago, these were available from R&D = Electronics in Cleveland.

These have an interesting = attribute. They=20 have a resonant frequency at about 25 kHz or so, but they also have what = is=20 called an "anti-resonant" frequency at a little under 45kHz. This = seems to=20 be a point where impedence is at a minimum.

One connects the PZT to a signal = generator and=20 amplifier; only a few watts is needed, and set the frequency precisely = to the=20 anti-resonant point.

Now here is the neat thing. If = you place a=20 finger, or toe on the PZT or touch the PZT even lightly to any part of = the body=20 while it is pulsed at this anti-resonant frequency, you will hear very = strongly=20 in your head a frequency that seems to be around 8 to 10 = kHz.

Bone conduction? If so why does = one hear a=20 frequency much lower than the 45 kHz of the PZT, and ONLY at the = anti-resonant=20 point of the PZT. No other frequency other than that which you = could hear=20 anyway will do this trick. It also works when only lightly = touching to a=20 fleshy part of the body; no firm bone contact is needed.

Any thoughts? Tis very odd, and I = offer it to=20 you.

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0553E.8E746560-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Nov 23 09:42:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA06274; Thu, 23 Nov 2000 09:42:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 09:42:31 -0800 Message-ID: <3A1D5705.65DF3720@groupz.net> Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 12:42:29 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siWpfcUINhQ,x-ns2r2d09OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Two Small Topics References: <001301c05568$7aed36a0$2d3dee3f@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"67j112.0.mX1.6SL7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17592 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Can not explain the frequency effect, but this sounds like the "neurophone"....check it out....it really works...there are some fantastic claims for it...however do not know about them, the basic claim is true.....and is explained in the theory section....thank you for the turkey day wish...and the same to you.... http://www.xyz.net/~nohaarp/neuro.htm steve opelc > Nick Reiter wrote: > > Gentlemen; > > For those in the US, happy Thanksgiving. For those abroad, happy > Thursday. > Now here is the neat thing. If you place a finger, or toe on the PZT > or touch the PZT even lightly to any part of the body while it is > pulsed at this anti-resonant frequency, you will hear very strongly in > your head a frequency that seems to be around 8 to 10 kHz. > Bone conduction? If so why does one hear a frequency much lower than > the 45 kHz of the PZT, and ONLY at the anti-resonant point of the > PZT. No other frequency other than that which you could hear anyway > will do this trick. It also works when only lightly touching to a > fleshy part of the body; no firm bone contact is needed. > Any thoughts? Tis very odd, and I offer it to you. > > NR > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Nov 23 10:58:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA24442; Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:58:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:58:23 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:58:17 -0500 Message-Id: <200011231858.NAA24776@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Two Small Topics Resent-Message-ID: <"h4VuG1.0.pz5.EZM7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17593 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ahoy Nick and Steve, I should know this, but I don't. Does the pitch change as well as the speed of sound while it is travelling through a material? That may explain it. Happy Turkey Day to you all, too! And do as my Grandfather once suggested to me "Son, eat the pie first. With your Grandma's cooking, you're never quite sure if you will survive long enough to get dessert." Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Nov 23 11:12:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA28349; Thu, 23 Nov 2000 11:11:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 11:11:47 -0800 Message-ID: <3A1D6BF7.77C6D1B@groupz.net> Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 14:11:51 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siWpfcUINhQ,x-ns2r2d09OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Two Small Topics-thought for turkey day... References: <200011231858.NAA24776@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PnjkM1.0.nw6.olM7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17594 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I am with you...do not know... Thought for turkey day... Turkeys are one of the dumbest birds, in comparison with their wild cousins. Yet they bring more joy, to more people, then any other bird in the world... Thank you for listening to my thought.... Happy thanksgiving....to all free energy nuts....no matter who, or where, you may be... steve opelc Happy thanks Michael T Huffman wrote: > > Ahoy Nick and Steve, > > I should know this, but I don't. Does the pitch change as well as the speed > of sound while it is travelling through a material? That may explain it. > > Happy Turkey Day to you all, too! > > And do as my Grandfather once suggested to me "Son, eat the pie first. With > your Grandma's cooking, you're never quite sure if you will survive long > enough to get dessert." > > Knuke > Michael T. Huffman > Huffman Technology Company > 1121 Dustin Drive > The Villages, Florida 32159 > (352)259-1276 > knuke@LCIA.COM > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Nov 23 23:04:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA18807; Thu, 23 Nov 2000 23:03:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 23:03:47 -0800 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001122083635.009605b0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:47:16 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: GC Measurements + my own In-Reply-To: <3A1A002C.1D77F20A@groupz.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"bw7-42.0.lb4.HBX7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17595 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com sno: This is called a "capacitate voltage multiplier". Also "charge pump" This is a very interesting thought. If you link the plates with diodes in an alternating fashion you could charge the stack with minimal effort. If there is a requirement to pulse the stack then the charge pump driver is capacitavly coupled to every layer also simplifing this process. I however have not ben able to test my stack yet. I do not have an accurate scale in the weight range that is needed. (My good scale has a limit of 2 grams) If anybody is interested in some charge pump schematics and enginering information, I will get some to you. At 11:55 PM 11/20/00 -0500, you wrote: >Something I have been wondering about...in one of the descriptions >of this device...it mentions charging with 12 volts DC...I don't >remember what it is called...but you can charge stacked plates... >with insulation between, one pair of plates at time...for example... >if you charge each pair with 10 volts...and assuming no leakage >and have 100 pairs of plates...you will have 1000 volts across >all the plates....this idea used to be used to generate high voltages... >by charging using low voltages....and then taking high voltage >off the stack... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Nov 23 23:25:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA21676; Thu, 23 Nov 2000 23:25:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 23:25:20 -0800 From: "Doug Smith" To: "Freenrg-L" Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 17:53:30 +1030 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Return-Path: doug@pns.com.au X-MDRcpt-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-MDRemoteIP: 203.22.75.105 Resent-Message-ID: <"vCKXi3.0.VI5.WVX7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17596 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: New Inertial Motor Design. Hello Everyone, I hope my submission is appropriate for this forum... I have put together a quick Web site describing my Newtonian Inertial Drive. I invite everyone to take a look - and offer your views. All constructive comment is most welcome. http://doug.pns.com.au/inertia Regards Doug Smith From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 24 02:34:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA13272; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 02:34:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 02:34:38 -0800 Message-ID: <3A1E4444.F48062AD@groupz.net> Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 05:34:44 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siWpfcUINhQ,x-ns2r2d09OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: GC Measurements + my own References: <4.2.0.58.20001122083635.009605b0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nfOc_1.0.HF3.zGa7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17597 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com AHHHHH....thank you.....I have heard it called a CVM...and also charge pump....steve Charles Ford wrote: > > sno: > > This is called a "capacitate voltage multiplier". Also "charge pump" > > If anybody is interested in some charge pump schematics and enginering > information, I will get some to you. > > At 11:55 PM 11/20/00 -0500, you wrote: > > >Something I have been wondering about...in one of the descriptions > >of this device...it mentions charging with 12 volts DC...I don't > >remember what it is called...but you can charge stacked plates... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 24 03:28:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA18937; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 03:28:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 03:28:06 -0800 Message-ID: <011f01c0560a$9eabe120$a92f623e@fpfzqlga> From: "Stefano Innocenti" To: Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 12:33:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"1_dFe3.0.fd4.63b7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17598 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Testatika's image Hi list, I've posted a scanned image of the Testatika machine. It's large about 1.4MB but It has a good definition (scanned at 300 dpi). I think may be useful for retro-engineering... You can download it at http://utenti.tripod.it/altraenergia/testabig.zip ciao, Stefano ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stefano Innocenti http://utenti.tripod.it/altraenergia http://utenti.tripod.it/missilistica http://www.razzimodellismo.it ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 24 03:44:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA22287; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 03:44:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 03:44:42 -0800 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001123201137.00a0ec70@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 20:20:53 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Two Small Topics In-Reply-To: <001301c05568$7aed36a0$2d3dee3f@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"w_htv2.0.8S5.gIb7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17599 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Harmonics chaos the resonance 45KHz and the dropout 25KHz will generate a sum and difference 70KHz and 20KHz Your ear might be generating the additional harmonic at 10KHz Also there is now content at 25KHz and 20KHz for the sum will be washed out by the resonance but the difference is 5KHz This could be a mistaken ID of a frequency. but the chaos continues to even smaller and smaller steps (at reduced power) At 11:14 AM 11/23/00 -0500, you wrote: >If you place a finger, or toe on the PZT or touch the PZT even lightly to >any part of the body while it is pulsed at this anti-resonant frequency, >you will hear very strongly in your head a frequency that seems to be >around 8 to 10 kHz. >Bone conduction? If so why does one hear a frequency much lower than the >45 kHz of the PZT, and ONLY at the anti-resonant point of the PZT. No >other frequency other than that which you could hear anyway will do this >trick. It also works when only lightly touching to a fleshy part of the >body; no firm bone contact is needed. >Any thoughts? Tis very odd, and I offer it to you. > >NR > Charlie Ford KC5-OWZ cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 24 06:37:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA15541; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 06:37:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 06:37:19 -0800 Message-ID: <001801c05623$0e36f260$b1c41718@CI892629-A.athen1.ga.home.com> From: "Jose Desiato" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Two Small Topics Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 09:30:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"DtACg3.0.jo3.Vqd7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17600 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com http://home.dmv.com/~tbastian/files/ has files pertaining to construction and theory of Neurophones. t1.txt, t2.txt, and t3v2.txt have construction details for different Neurophones. -Jose Desiato Lead Programmer of PiNet -----Original Message----- From: sno To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, November 23, 2000 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Two Small Topics >Can not explain the frequency effect, but this sounds like the >"neurophone"....check it out....it really works...there are >some fantastic claims for it...however do not know about them, >the basic claim is true.....and is explained in the theory >section....thank you for the turkey day wish...and the same >to you.... > >http://www.xyz.net/~nohaarp/neuro.htm > >steve opelc > > > > >> Nick Reiter wrote: >> >> Gentlemen; >> >> For those in the US, happy Thanksgiving. For those abroad, happy >> Thursday. > >> Now here is the neat thing. If you place a finger, or toe on the PZT >> or touch the PZT even lightly to any part of the body while it is >> pulsed at this anti-resonant frequency, you will hear very strongly in >> your head a frequency that seems to be around 8 to 10 kHz. >> Bone conduction? If so why does one hear a frequency much lower than >> the 45 kHz of the PZT, and ONLY at the anti-resonant point of the >> PZT. No other frequency other than that which you could hear anyway >> will do this trick. It also works when only lightly touching to a >> fleshy part of the body; no firm bone contact is needed. >> Any thoughts? Tis very odd, and I offer it to you. >> >> NR >> > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 24 06:57:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA20592; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 06:57:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 06:57:41 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 16:01:05 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200011241501.QAA13739@gunnison.RZ-Berlin.MPG.DE> X-Sender: WDBAUER@pop3.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) Resent-Message-ID: <"7Ecc6.0.b15.b7e7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17601 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: experimental data to parametric rotator Hi all ! I announce here a new informative article with experimental data regarding parametric rotators. It can be accessed directly on Stefan Hartmann's overunity server at http://www.overunity.com/rotator/bucher.htm It is a Sublink of the rotator article: http://www.overunity.com/rotator/rotator2.htm Abstract: The experiment described here was done by Alexander Bucher. He realized a simplified version of the known Wuerth rotator. His measurements showed no influence on the rotor's angular velocity due to the braking process of Wuerth's parametric rotator. This observations are confirmed by Wuerths own experiments. They contradict to the theortical predictions and allow to measure overunity efficiencies very easily. A simple proposal to do this can be found in the end of the document. Sincerly Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 24 07:29:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA27954; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 07:29:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 07:29:08 -0800 Message-ID: <3A1E8944.44AEF6F9@groupz.net> Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 10:29:08 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siWpfcUINhQ,x-ns2r2d09OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Two Small Topics References: <001801c05623$0e36f260$b1c41718@CI892629-A.athen1.ga.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jFyvz3.0.cq6.2be7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17602 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Here is the basic page for the neurophone. Thank you Jose for the link. http://home.dmv.com/~tbastian/nuroindx.htm The reason I became interested in this, years ago, was I knew a young lady (child at the time) who had a bunch of physical problems, including deafness. I have heard over the years that she is doing well, or better then expected. She used an extremely powerful hearing device to help her hear.... At the time I thought about building such a device, as was working in the electronics field and had access to some very good design people, along with bunches of test equipment. However, being in the military, I was transferred to another location and over time the idea faded from my mind. I am now surprisingly enough, in contact with a young college student, over the internet, that has a similar problem. Maybe now is the time to do something about my idea. However I not now able to design nor build such a device. It should be a lot easier now, with advances in IC technology. So if anyone out there has a bunch of theory...and is good at design...and has access to test equipment....and would like to play with something like this....would appreciate any circuits you can come up with, or build. Please contact me off list as this is off topic, I believe, for this list..... The ckts shown at this site are from the early 90's and appear not to have been actually built and tested... Thank you....steve opelc Jose Desiato wrote: > > http://home.dmv.com/~tbastian/files/ has files pertaining to construction > and theory of Neurophones. t1.txt, t2.txt, and t3v2.txt have construction > details for different Neurophones. > > -Jose Desiato > Lead Programmer of PiNet > > -----Original Message----- > From: sno > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Date: Thursday, November 23, 2000 12:43 PM > Subject: Re: [FG]: Two Small Topics > > >Can not explain the frequency effect, but this sounds like the > >"neurophone"....check it out....it really works...there are > >some fantastic claims for it...however do not know about them, > >the basic claim is true.....and is explained in the theory > >section....thank you for the turkey day wish...and the same > >to you.... > > > >http://www.xyz.net/~nohaarp/neuro.htm > > > >steve opelc > > > > > > > > > >> Nick Reiter wrote: > >> > >> Gentlemen; > >> > >> For those in the US, happy Thanksgiving. For those abroad, happy > >> Thursday. > > > >> Now here is the neat thing. If you place a finger, or toe on the PZT > >> or touch the PZT even lightly to any part of the body while it is > >> pulsed at this anti-resonant frequency, you will hear very strongly in > >> your head a frequency that seems to be around 8 to 10 kHz. > >> Bone conduction? If so why does one hear a frequency much lower than > >> the 45 kHz of the PZT, and ONLY at the anti-resonant point of the > >> PZT. No other frequency other than that which you could hear anyway > >> will do this trick. It also works when only lightly touching to a > >> fleshy part of the body; no firm bone contact is needed. > >> Any thoughts? Tis very odd, and I offer it to you. > >> > >> NR > >> > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 24 09:45:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA26729; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 09:45:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 09:45:17 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <80.34ed5d4.27500301@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 12:44:33 EST To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, newman-l@emachine.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: Lafonte11648@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"okCIo2.0.MX6.jag7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17603 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Statement from LaFonte Research Group The LaFonte Research Group will not proclaim that it DEFINITELY has an overunity device until that device is self sustaining. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 24 11:20:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA14590; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 11:20:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 11:20:31 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [208.48.17.252] From: "Louis Cipher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 13:19:57 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Nov 2000 19:19:57.0489 (UTC) FILETIME=[88414A10:01C0564B] Resent-Message-ID: <"61VeP3.0.kZ3._zh7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17604 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Diode-Based Energy Source? This may be a bit simplistic, but has anyone done any experimenting with diode-based energy sources? I stumbled across an article in Radio Electronics back in the late '80s, where the author had modified a crystal radio to include an amplifier. He was simply irritated by having to listen to his crystal radio through the little cheesy ear-phone, which also hurt his ear. He saw no reason why he couldn't build a SECOND crystal tuner, and use ITS output (1-1.4 volts) to drive a small amplifier: just enough to drive a CB-Radio speaker. Low and behold, it worked. This was quaint and all, but it raised a larger question in my mind: why couldn't you chain a whole STRING of these circuits in SERIES until you had a steady, reliable 12V of output, then replicate this "block" of units, and hook a bunch of these 12V "blocks" in PARALLEL to provide sufficient current to drive an INVERTER!? I did some experimenting on a small scale (involving several $9.95 crystal radio kits from Rickety Shack), and was pleased to find that I COULD, indeed, chain the units together. I knew that it was possible to have the crystal radio circuits optimized for maximum power by tuning the circuit to a "static" frequency, removing the variable-tuning capability, and then having them mass produced for about 50-cents per board. (I have a friend who does this with PIC programmers, EPROM burners, video cards, sync-on-green adaptors, etc., so the mass-production is no problem.) My main question is this: would each unit require its own unique antenna, or could they all use a common antenna? Or perhaps a maximum of "X" number of units could use one antenna, requiring us to have, not one antenna for each unit, but maybe 1/10th as many antennas as there are units? I simply have not explored this aspect. Does anyone know? I know this is FAR from an "elegant" solution to alternative energy, but IT WORKS, and anyone who wants to could utilize it anywhere on earth, without having to worry about patents, royalties, law suits, etc., etc. There is not a single square inch of this planet where you cannot tap "static" from the sun's interaction with the ionosphere. Even at the POLES! (And if either the sun or the ionosphere ever ceases to be, so do WE!) So, if anyone else has explored this area of alternative power, please let me know! The last thing any of us can afford is to spend money duplicating the efforts of someone else, especially if it is a dead-end! I look forward to hearing from anyone with info! --Lou _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 24 13:40:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA14416; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 13:39:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 13:39:57 -0800 Message-ID: <20001124213920.9200.qmail@web4406.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 13:39:20 -0800 (PST) From: harvey norris Subject: Re: [FG]: Diode-Based Energy Source? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"qk4g82.0.9X3.i0k7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17605 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- Louis Cipher wrote: > This may be a bit simplistic, but has anyone done > any experimenting with > diode-based energy sources? > > I stumbled across an article in Radio Electronics > back in the late '80s, > where the author had modified a crystal radio to > include an amplifier. He > was simply irritated by having to listen to his > crystal radio through the > little cheesy ear-phone, which also hurt his ear. He > saw no reason why he > couldn't build a SECOND crystal tuner, and use ITS > output (1-1.4 volts) to > drive a small amplifier: just enough to drive a > CB-Radio speaker. Low and > behold, it worked. > > This was quaint and all, but it raised a larger > question in my mind: why > couldn't you chain a whole STRING of these circuits > in SERIES until you had > a steady, reliable 12V of output, then replicate > this "block" of units, and > hook a bunch of these 12V "blocks" in PARALLEL to > provide sufficient current > to drive an INVERTER!? > > I did some experimenting on a small scale (involving > several $9.95 crystal > radio kits from Rickety Shack), and was pleased to > find that I COULD, > indeed, chain the units together. I knew that it was > possible to have the > crystal radio circuits optimized for maximum power > by tuning the circuit to > a "static" frequency, removing the variable-tuning > capability, and then > having them mass produced for about 50-cents per > board. (I have a friend who > does this with PIC programmers, EPROM burners, video > cards, sync-on-green > adaptors, etc., so the mass-production is no > problem.) My main question is > this: would each unit require its own unique > antenna, or could they all use > a common antenna? Or perhaps a maximum of "X" number > of units could use one > antenna, requiring us to have, not one antenna for > each unit, but maybe > 1/10th as many antennas as there are units? I simply > have not explored this > aspect. Does anyone know? I certainly dont know: but it might be analogous to inductances in parallel, where the total value of the eqivalent inductor becomes smaller. At a single frequency resonance LC is a constant so if L(collective) goes down C(collective)goes up. This is exactly what occurs if we had merely collected each each resonant capacity from each device in parallel. I can appreciate the idea of having several tuned circuits with different individually valued LC combination circuits in parallel. In the case of 3 phase I am trying this with a delta to delta conversion of series resonances where the LC values are in wide variance: but yet both combinations tuned to same frequency. I highly recommend the coffee flavored guy who has a Chaotic Resonance URL at http://members.xoom.com/suckyfish He also has an electrogravity section. Here is a recent statement from Jerry Bayles; of http://www.electrogravity.com if you rotate a transmission line around its feed point in a plane of rotation, the end of it will swing through a circle in a physical sense. If at the same time, the transmission line is supporting an electrical standing wave at a fixed frequency, then the end of the line is also creating a 'virtual' standing wave that stretches around the perimeter of the circle of rotation. If the rate of rotation is changed per cycle, the end of the transmission line is generating a virtual standing wave that is also moving in a physical sense relative to its last standing wave end of cycle position. This would be a 'pulsed' acceleration mode. I am rather more interested in making an illusion where these electrical fields "appear" to rotate in space by governing their oscillations by their phasing relation of input. HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 24 15:18:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA02373; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 15:18:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 15:18:23 -0800 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 18:17:46 EST Subject: Re: [FG]: Diode-Based Energy Source? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 124 Resent-Message-ID: <"mIlzG3.0.-a.-Sl7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17606 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 11/24/00 11:21:37 AM Pacific Standard Time, malklaka@hotmail.com writes: > I did some experimenting on a small scale (involving several $9.95 crystal > radio kits from Rickety Shack), and was pleased to find that I COULD, > indeed, chain the units together. I knew that it was possible to have the > crystal radio circuits optimized for maximum power by tuning the circuit to > a "static" frequency, removing the variable-tuning capability, and then > having them mass produced for about 50-cents per board. (I have a friend who > > does this with PIC programmers, EPROM burners, video cards, sync-on-green > adaptors, etc., so the mass-production is no problem.) My main question is > this: would each unit require its own unique antenna, or could they all use > a common antenna? Or perhaps a maximum of "X" number of units could use one > antenna, requiring us to have, not one antenna for each unit, but maybe > 1/10th as many antennas as there are units? I simply have not explored this > aspect. Does anyone know?\ It would seem to me that for each signal frequency that you use you will need a separate antenna. It might be possible to use several units with an antenna if each unit is tuned to a different frequency. Also, the antennas will have to be spaced some distance apart -- something farther than a wavelength or so for whatever frequency you are using. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 24 16:04:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA11948; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 16:03:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 16:03:30 -0800 Message-ID: <001701c0566f$ab4eca40$8b3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: , References: Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 18:38:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"r9jDf2.0.Xw2.I7m7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17607 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Diode-Based Energy Source? Scavenge Circuits! Now theres an oldie but a goodie! About 5 years ago Sam Faile and I spent about 8 months working on passive ambient energy recievers using diodes and antenna arrays of different types. It is a concept that certainly seems worth consideration, however while you can develop some reasonable open circuit voltage from tandem or parallel diode recieving circuits, the total power delivered is pretty dinky. Yes, you would need independent antennae for each circuit. I wrote a paper on the work that was published in New Energy News, but have long since forgotten which issue. 1995 or early 96 I think. Anyway, we did find some key points. First, use as fast a silicon diode as possible. We found a good cheap compromize was the 1N914. Build a bridge from these, and connect one of the AC input points to a good deep earth ground. The other AC terminal goes to the antenna of your choice, whether it be an aerial or a long non-inductive planar caduceus array. With just a single bridge and a proper antenna geometry, you can get up to 12 or 13 volts DC at the output. HOWEVER - the downside is that the total current of the system is usually micro-amps. I think the best we ever got was maybe 20 or 30 microwatts total power. Enough to flash an LED every few seconds, or power a small digital watch circuit. But I guess you could say that it is free energy. The whole scavenge idea is attractive. Think of all the EM out there from all of the radio and microwave stations worldwide! If you built enough scavenge circuits for all different bands, you might get some useful power; but alas, you will need acres of land to string up antennae of all different types. But maybe fractal antennae might be the answer. hmmmmm. Oh, by the way, there is a lot of low frequency 60 Hz energy that can be scavenged as well. Problem is if you go after that, either by inductive or capacitive coupling the utility will eventually nail you! Don't try it. There were farmers who built massive pickup coils in their barns which were built near high tension mains. They scavenged enough power to light the barn and outbuildings, but eventually the change in power correction factor gave them away, and they spent a long time in jail. NR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louis Cipher" To: Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 2:19 PM Subject: [FG]: Diode-Based Energy Source? > This may be a bit simplistic, but has anyone done any experimenting with > diode-based energy sources? > > I stumbled across an article in Radio Electronics back in the late '80s, > where the author had modified a crystal radio to include an amplifier. He > was simply irritated by having to listen to his crystal radio through the > little cheesy ear-phone, which also hurt his ear. He saw no reason why he > couldn't build a SECOND crystal tuner, and use ITS output (1-1.4 volts) to > drive a small amplifier: just enough to drive a CB-Radio speaker. Low and > behold, it worked. > > This was quaint and all, but it raised a larger question in my mind: why > couldn't you chain a whole STRING of these circuits in SERIES until you had > a steady, reliable 12V of output, then replicate this "block" of units, and > hook a bunch of these 12V "blocks" in PARALLEL to provide sufficient current > to drive an INVERTER!? > > I did some experimenting on a small scale (involving several $9.95 crystal > radio kits from Rickety Shack), and was pleased to find that I COULD, > indeed, chain the units together. I knew that it was possible to have the > crystal radio circuits optimized for maximum power by tuning the circuit to > a "static" frequency, removing the variable-tuning capability, and then > having them mass produced for about 50-cents per board. (I have a friend who > does this with PIC programmers, EPROM burners, video cards, sync-on-green > adaptors, etc., so the mass-production is no problem.) My main question is > this: would each unit require its own unique antenna, or could they all use > a common antenna? Or perhaps a maximum of "X" number of units could use one > antenna, requiring us to have, not one antenna for each unit, but maybe > 1/10th as many antennas as there are units? I simply have not explored this > aspect. Does anyone know? > > I know this is FAR from an "elegant" solution to alternative energy, but IT > WORKS, and anyone who wants to could utilize it anywhere on earth, without > having to worry about patents, royalties, law suits, etc., etc. There is not > a single square inch of this planet where you cannot tap "static" from the > sun's interaction with the ionosphere. Even at the POLES! (And if either the > sun or the ionosphere ever ceases to be, so do WE!) > > So, if anyone else has explored this area of alternative power, please let > me know! The last thing any of us can afford is to spend money duplicating > the efforts of someone else, especially if it is a dead-end! > > I look forward to hearing from anyone with info! > > --Lou > ____________________________________________________________________________ _________ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 24 17:51:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA08217; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 17:51:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 17:51:06 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20001124184019.328711fa@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 18:40:19 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: experimental data to parametric rotator In-Reply-To: <200011241501.QAA13739@gunnison.RZ-Berlin.MPG.DE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"HO_G4.0.B02.9in7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17608 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Dieter, Can you explain more these tests, what is the braking, etc? It is 2 counter-rotating rotors in a box, rotated by a rope wound on a drum and pulled by a weight until the rope ends? What is the parameter that is varied parametrically? Thanks, -Dave D. >It can be accessed directly on Stefan Hartmann's overunity server at >http://www.overunity.com/rotator/bucher.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Nov 24 21:40:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA26651; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 21:40:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 21:40:04 -0800 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001124234550.00a82920@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 23:47:07 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: New Inertial Motor Design. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"LRYPy1.0.KW6.p2r7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17609 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Doug: You might be interested in following the GC (Gravity Cap) thread. There is a possibility that this device is a sort of internal propulsion at the molecular level. At 05:53 PM 11/24/00 +1030, you wrote: >Hello Everyone, > >I hope my submission is appropriate for this forum... > >I have put together a quick Web site describing my Newtonian Inertial Drive. > >I invite everyone to take a look - and offer your views. All constructive >comment is most welcome. > >http://doug.pns.com.au/inertia > >Regards >Doug Smith Charlie Ford KC5-OWZ cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Nov 25 00:16:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA22359; Sat, 25 Nov 2000 00:15:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 00:15:44 -0800 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001124233854.00a0b3f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 23:45:37 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Diode-Based Energy Source? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"C2P0c2.0.ET5.kKt7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17610 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com 1/4 wave is usually sufficient. A diode can be made by touching the edge of a rusty razor blade to the flat edge of a nickel. A resonating coil can be made by wrapping wire around just about anything and presto... crystal radio. the energy comes mostly from the RF radiation but some of it is from galvanic reactions (like a battery) One antenna is sufficient for a reliably wide band (several signals can be used and separated by resonators) The available amount of energy is very small. > It would seem to me that for each signal frequency that you use you will >need a separate antenna. It might be possible to use several units with an >antenna if each unit is tuned to a different frequency. Also, the antennas >will have to be spaced some distance apart -- something farther than a >wavelength or so for whatever frequency you are using. > > Ken Charlie Ford KC5-OWZ cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Nov 25 01:59:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA01787; Sat, 25 Nov 2000 01:59:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 01:59:23 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 11:02:54 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200011251002.LAA00116@gunnison.RZ-Berlin.MPG.DE> X-Sender: WDBAUER@pop3.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) Subject: Re: [FG]: experimental data to parametric rotator Resent-Message-ID: <"TUZA53.0.qR.xru7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17611 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Dave ! You wrote >Can you explain more these tests, what is the braking, etc? The braking is achieved by bolts which block the movement of the rotors on the slab. Surely, it is a very abrupt braking. >It is 2 counter-rotating rotors in a box, rotated by a rope wound on a drum >and pulled by a weight until the rope ends? Corrctly ! >What is the parameter that is varied parametrically? The "material constant" to be varied is the effective moment of inertia ! This is achieved by stopping the rotor movement. Please compare the document above http://www.overunity.com/rotator/rotator2.htm. It explains this terms in more length. Sincerly Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Nov 25 04:25:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA19287; Sat, 25 Nov 2000 04:25:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 04:25:16 -0800 Message-ID: <007101c056da$78864aa0$24ff08d0@default> From: "Larry Canada" To: "freenrg-l" Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 05:23:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006E_01C0569F.CB7057A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"uXv942.0.Aj4.h-w7w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17612 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: field measurement This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C0569F.CB7057A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This may seem pretty basic but, If you have an electrostatic field that covers a large area, (my = backyard) how do you measure that field? It is strong enough to charge = a capacitor. How do you determine the frequency of the energy source. = Can you determine the frequency and then measure the wattage? If so, = what do I need to do this myself? If someone could suggest a good book relative to my questions, that = would be a big help. Thanks, Larry ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C0569F.CB7057A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This may seem pretty basic but,

If you have an electrostatic field that covers a = large area,=20 (my backyard) how do you measure that field? It is strong enough = to charge=20 a capacitor. How do you determine the frequency of the energy=20 source. Can you determine the frequency and then measure the=20 wattage? If so, what do I need to do this myself?

If someone could suggest a good = book=20 relative to my questions, that would be a big help.

Thanks, Larry

------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C0569F.CB7057A0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Nov 25 10:54:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA03847; Sat, 25 Nov 2000 10:54:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 10:54:39 -0800 Message-ID: <004801c05710$89de14a0$b2d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Diode-Based Energy Source? Scavenge Circuits! Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 13:50:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"xsxqX.0.0y.kh08w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17613 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com If one could miniturize these circuits (analogous to vacuum tube-transitor-IC), huh, the thought just stopped there... Anyone care to pick up where I left off... -----Original Message----- From: Nick Reiter To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; malklaka@hotmail.com Date: Friday, November 24, 2000 7:05 PM Subject: [FG]: Re: Diode-Based Energy Source? Scavenge Circuits! >Now theres an oldie but a goodie! > >About 5 years ago Sam Faile and I spent about 8 months working on passive >ambient energy recievers using diodes and antenna arrays of different types. >It is a concept that certainly seems worth consideration, however while you >can develop some reasonable open circuit voltage from tandem or parallel >diode recieving circuits, the total power delivered is pretty dinky. Yes, >you would need independent antennae for each circuit. >I wrote a paper on the work that was published in New Energy News, but have >long since forgotten which issue. 1995 or early 96 I think. > >Anyway, we did find some key points. First, use as fast a silicon diode as >possible. We found a good cheap compromize was the 1N914. Build a bridge >from these, and connect one of the AC input points to a good deep earth >ground. The other AC terminal goes to the antenna of your choice, whether >it be an aerial or a long non-inductive planar caduceus array. With just a >single bridge and a proper antenna geometry, you can get up to 12 or 13 >volts DC at the output. HOWEVER - the downside is that the total current of >the system is usually micro-amps. > I think the best we ever got was maybe 20 or 30 microwatts total power. >Enough to flash an LED every few seconds, or power a small digital watch >circuit. But I guess you could say that it is free energy. > The whole scavenge idea is attractive. Think of all the EM out there >from all of the radio and microwave stations worldwide! If you built >enough scavenge circuits for all different bands, you might get some useful >power; but alas, you will need acres of land to string up antennae of all >different types. > But maybe fractal antennae might be the answer. hmmmmm. > Oh, by the way, there is a lot of low frequency 60 Hz energy that can be >scavenged as well. Problem is if you go after that, either by inductive or >capacitive coupling the utility will eventually nail you! Don't try it. >There were farmers who built massive pickup coils in their barns which were >built near high tension mains. They scavenged enough power to light the >barn and outbuildings, but eventually the change in power correction factor >gave them away, and they spent a long time in jail. > >NR > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Louis Cipher" >To: >Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 2:19 PM >Subject: [FG]: Diode-Based Energy Source? > > >> This may be a bit simplistic, but has anyone done any experimenting with >> diode-based energy sources? >> >> I stumbled across an article in Radio Electronics back in the late '80s, >> where the author had modified a crystal radio to include an amplifier. He >> was simply irritated by having to listen to his crystal radio through the >> little cheesy ear-phone, which also hurt his ear. He saw no reason why he >> couldn't build a SECOND crystal tuner, and use ITS output (1-1.4 volts) to >> drive a small amplifier: just enough to drive a CB-Radio speaker. Low and >> behold, it worked. >> >> This was quaint and all, but it raised a larger question in my mind: why >> couldn't you chain a whole STRING of these circuits in SERIES until you >had >> a steady, reliable 12V of output, then replicate this "block" of units, >and >> hook a bunch of these 12V "blocks" in PARALLEL to provide sufficient >current >> to drive an INVERTER!? >> >> I did some experimenting on a small scale (involving several $9.95 crystal >> radio kits from Rickety Shack), and was pleased to find that I COULD, >> indeed, chain the units together. I knew that it was possible to have the >> crystal radio circuits optimized for maximum power by tuning the circuit >to >> a "static" frequency, removing the variable-tuning capability, and then >> having them mass produced for about 50-cents per board. (I have a friend >who >> does this with PIC programmers, EPROM burners, video cards, sync-on-green >> adaptors, etc., so the mass-production is no problem.) My main question is >> this: would each unit require its own unique antenna, or could they all >use >> a common antenna? Or perhaps a maximum of "X" number of units could use >one >> antenna, requiring us to have, not one antenna for each unit, but maybe >> 1/10th as many antennas as there are units? I simply have not explored >this >> aspect. Does anyone know? >> >> I know this is FAR from an "elegant" solution to alternative energy, but >IT >> WORKS, and anyone who wants to could utilize it anywhere on earth, without >> having to worry about patents, royalties, law suits, etc., etc. There is >not >> a single square inch of this planet where you cannot tap "static" from the >> sun's interaction with the ionosphere. Even at the POLES! (And if either >the >> sun or the ionosphere ever ceases to be, so do WE!) >> >> So, if anyone else has explored this area of alternative power, please let >> me know! The last thing any of us can afford is to spend money duplicating >> the efforts of someone else, especially if it is a dead-end! >> >> I look forward to hearing from anyone with info! >> >> --Lou >> >___________________________________________________________________________ _ >_________ >> Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : >http://explorer.msn.com >> > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Nov 25 11:28:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA15035; Sat, 25 Nov 2000 11:28:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 11:28:22 -0800 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: field measurement Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 19:28:14 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Message-ID: <3a2110d6.62793311@mail.midiowa.net> References: <007101c056da$78864aa0$24ff08d0@default> In-Reply-To: <007101c056da$78864aa0$24ff08d0@default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id LAA15000 Resent-Message-ID: <"CBdLF1.0.lg3.LB18w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17614 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Larry, On Sat, 25 Nov 2000 05:23:07 -0700, "Larry Canada" wrote: >This may seem pretty basic but, >If you have an electrostatic field that covers a large area, (my backyard) how do you measure that field? It is strong enough to charge a capacitor. How do you determine the frequency of the energy source. Can you determine the frequency and then meas ure the wattage? If so, what do I need to do this myself? > If someone could suggest a good book relative to my questions, that would be a big help. Yup. It's strong enough to charge a battery. How much current you'll get is another question. :) The "standard" way of doing it is: Get a piece of chicken wire (fencing). Bigger (more area) is better. Hang the fencing between two poles using insulators between the fencing and the poles -- higher is better (and keeping the lowest end higher than anyone can reach is a good idea). Connect a wire from the fencing to an automotive spark plug. Connect the other side of the spark plug to the high-voltage terminal of an older automotive spark coil. Connect the low-voltage lead of the spark coil through a rectifier diode (100 volts, a few amps) to a battery or capacitor. Insulate where needed. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Nov 25 11:46:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA20903; Sat, 25 Nov 2000 11:45:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 11:45:43 -0800 Message-ID: <000501c05718$95417320$903dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <004801c05710$89de14a0$b2d666ce@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Diode-Based Energy Source? Scavenge Circuits! Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 14:47:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZPhW23.0.W65.cR18w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17615 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Earlier this year I remember reading an article in R&D Magazine about miniature fractal antennae. It would seem that with the right fractal pattern, one could get an incredibly high surface area, and adjuct L and C to one's liking. The units I saw in the article were inside cell phones, and were patterned triangular foil grids. Now this brings up an interesting question. If you take a simple hollow metal sphere, like a VDG ball, and attach your energy scavenge circuit to it, would you not technically have an infinite number of antenna lengths curled around the surface of the sphere, in all orientations? In practice, when I tried this it gave only minimal results. Is it because a vast number of probabilistic current paths on the surface of the sphere cause destructive interference? Maybe the ultimate energy extraction antenna for a fast diode circuit would look like a 3D Julia set, or some fantastic fractal arrangement of spiderwebbing. Sort of like Faile's old premise; with the right coil or antenna geometry really weird things could happen. One last bit of interest; a couple of years after we had messed with the diode scavenge circuits, I saw an article about a FE circuit called an Avrimenko's (sp) Plug. It was our old circuit connected as a unipolar system! I am sure it was independently thought of though, as I had also seen an old schematic for a crude RF field sniffer that was the same idea. NR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2000 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Diode-Based Energy Source? Scavenge Circuits! > If one could miniturize these circuits (analogous to vacuum > tube-transitor-IC), huh, the thought just stopped there... Anyone care to > pick up where I left off... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Reiter > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; malklaka@hotmail.com > > Date: Friday, November 24, 2000 7:05 PM > Subject: [FG]: Re: Diode-Based Energy Source? Scavenge Circuits! > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Nov 25 13:12:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA09404; Sat, 25 Nov 2000 13:10:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 13:10:55 -0800 Message-ID: <003001c056e3$c57f67c0$b1e5b5d0@a9o0z0> From: "Alik S" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Diode-Based Energy Source? Scavenge Circuits! Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 13:29:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"JK1EQ3.0.oI2.Th28w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17616 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Many years ago someone I knew then & I were playing with diode energy scavenger idea. It evolved into a 4" copper ball sitting on a 3-4 foot metal rod , with a network of 1 foot or so wire leads going to Ge diodes that are no longer in circulation, charging old electrolytics of the kind that like to charge themselves. The thing never produced any appreciable power but if one would run their hand along wires there were distinct 'tingly' nodes. This is kind of contrary to what is likely (or possible) according to text-books. A coil from another machine (about a foot by 3" dia) started making spark-like noises couple of times a minute and because there was paper lying all-over the place we disconnected the thing and never got back to it. Alik S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Nov 25 14:22:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA26750; Sat, 25 Nov 2000 14:20:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 14:20:50 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: field measurement Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 09:20:13 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <7vd02t484o08sv74larh7hckitahurf2q5@4ax.com> References: <007101c056da$78864aa0$24ff08d0@default> <3a2110d6.62793311@mail.midiowa.net> In-Reply-To: <3a2110d6.62793311@mail.midiowa.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA26687 Resent-Message-ID: <"rVSQI2.0.sX6.1j38w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17617 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Dean T. Miller's message of Sat, 25 Nov 2000 19:28:14 GMT: Hi Dean, I'm missing a couple of facts here. First, what is the other terminal of the battery connected to? (ground?) Second is th spark coil just a coil, or is it actually being driven to produce high voltage? I get the impression that the fence and coil together form a resonant circuit when a spark jumps the gap, and that then the oscillations are rectified and fed to the battery. If this is the general idea, then I have a couple of extra questions. 1) Would the circuit benefit from a variable tuning capacitor, allowing one to tune in to the strongest RF signal (the fence and coil already have a more or less fixed resonant frequency)? 2) How does the voltage initially build up high enough to generate a spark? (Is this just due to the natural 10 kV / m or so that is naturally present in the atmosphere?) 3) If so, then why bother with the resonant circuit at all, as the atmospheric voltage is already DC? [snip] >Get a piece of chicken wire (fencing). Bigger (more area) is better. > >Hang the fencing between two poles using insulators between the >fencing and the poles -- higher is better (and keeping the lowest end >higher than anyone can reach is a good idea). > >Connect a wire from the fencing to an automotive spark plug. Connect >the other side of the spark plug to the high-voltage terminal of an >older automotive spark coil. > >Connect the low-voltage lead of the spark coil through a rectifier >diode (100 volts, a few amps) to a battery or capacitor. > >Insulate where needed. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk Explanations allow people to think for themselves, recipes do not. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Nov 25 20:09:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA07193; Sat, 25 Nov 2000 20:08:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 20:08:04 -0800 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001125215645.009e0c30@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 22:05:53 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: field measurement In-Reply-To: <007101c056da$78864aa0$24ff08d0@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"0Qpvf3.0.9m1.Vo88w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17618 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 05:23 AM 11/25/00 -0700, you wrote: >This may seem pretty basic but, >If you have an electrostatic field that covers a large area, (my backyard) >how do you measure that field? It is strong enough to charge a >capacitor. How do you determine the frequency of the energy source. Can >you determine the frequency and then measure the wattage? If so, what do >I need to do this myself? > If someone could suggest a good book relative to my questions, that > would be a big help. >Thanks, Larry Larry: My first question is why do you suspect there is an electrostatic field in your back yard? The rest is confusing... IF it is an electron static field there will be no frequency... static means not moving and a "frequency" refers to dynamic conditions (cycles per second) If it is a static condition then the spark plug doodad that Dean recommended should work fine (measurement is another matter) If it is a dynamic condition then something more like the crystal radio discussed in some other posts would be more appropriate. (again measurement is a problem) Charlie Ford KC5-OWZ cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Nov 25 22:13:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA26707; Sat, 25 Nov 2000 22:12:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 22:12:31 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20001125225312.218f1c3a@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 22:53:12 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Two Small Topics In-Reply-To: <001301c05568$7aed36a0$2d3dee3f@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"NrRaB.0.CX6.FdA8w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17619 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Nick, At 11:14 AM 11/23/00 -0500, you wrote: >One starts with a lead zirconate titanate disc PZT of a size often seen on the surplus market - about 2.25" by 1/8" thick, with silvered faces. A few years ago, these were available from R&D Electronics in Cleveland. Are they still in business? Several years ago I quit getting catalogs or any response from them. They had lots of HV and other stuff, even SEM's on their back cover. -Dave D. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Nov 25 23:06:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA03772; Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:06:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:06:18 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <3d.4061e56.27521047@aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 02:05:43 EST To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, newman-l@emachine.com, MMCVetten@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_3d.4061e56.27521047_boundary" X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"wjXZL3.0.mw.gPB8w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17620 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Break thru found in testing! LaFonte Group --part1_3d.4061e56.27521047_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, During two days of hard testing I came across a way to run the motor/generator in what appears to be a major advance. I changed from two repulsion air coils to three and made the forth coil a ferrite core, but the major break thru was in realizing that the attraction ferrite core coil should not have any power going to it during the equilibrium phase after the magnet are attracted to the ferrite (circuit open) and only it's generator action working and it working only as the magnet was leaving the coil center. This required a diode. The repulsion coils are now wired in parallel and produce the same total back emf voltage but with many times the total current flow for repulsion. The magnet is removed from the ferrite core coil in equilibrium with ease now because the attraction coil is only generating and not being powered and generating also. That's a lot of drag eliminated. I have tested all these things and they work perfect. The next step is to use capacitors now to recycle the main power pulse and make it self running. Here is a drawing taken to an extreme to help get the idea across. More details tomorrow. 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Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: field measurement Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 08:28:18 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Message-ID: <3a20c756.109519829@mail.midiowa.net> References: <007101c056da$78864aa0$24ff08d0@default> <3a2110d6.62793311@mail.midiowa.net> <7vd02t484o08sv74larh7hckitahurf2q5@4ax.com> In-Reply-To: <7vd02t484o08sv74larh7hckitahurf2q5@4ax.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA04328 Resent-Message-ID: <"fuiMs.0.y31.pcC8w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17621 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Robin, On Sun, 26 Nov 2000 09:20:13 +1100, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >In reply to Dean T. Miller's message of Sat, 25 Nov 2000 19:28:14 GMT: > >I'm missing a couple of facts here. >First, what is the other terminal of the battery connected to? (ground?) Oops. Yup, I missed that point. :) >Second is th spark coil just a coil, or is it actually being driven to >produce high voltage? The chicken-wire screen will collect static electricity, and the voltage will build up enough to fire across the spark plug gap. This pulse of high voltage goes into the high voltage winding of the spark coil, with a much lower voltage (approximately 12-15 volts) will come out of the secondary. The common of the spark coil and the negative pole of the battery should be grounded (actual copper rod into the ground under the screen). >I get the impression that the fence and coil together form a resonant >circuit when a spark jumps the gap, and that then the oscillations are >rectified and fed to the battery. Spark coils aren't usually used in a resonant circuit, as far as I know. >If this is the general idea, then I have a couple of extra questions. >1) Would the circuit benefit from a variable tuning capacitor, allowing one >to tune in to the strongest RF signal (the fence and coil already have a >more or less fixed resonant frequency)? The screen is used to pick up normal static electricity that's "in" the air. A wind will tend to increase the amount of power available (while moist air will tend to reduce it -- but rain seems to increase it). >2) How does the voltage initially build up high enough to generate a spark? >(Is this just due to the natural 10 kV / m or so that is naturally present >in the atmosphere?) Yup. You need good insulators so the static charge doesn't bleed off the screen through the support ropes/cables. >3) If so, then why bother with the resonant circuit at all, as the >atmospheric voltage is already DC? I haven't tried a resonant circuit. More than that, it would take lots of figuring to determine what frequency to use (it might be variable, depending on atmospheric conditions). The idea is NOT to pick up incidental power from radio/TV transmitters or power lines. It's to collect static electricity from the air/rain/snow that builds up on insulated conductors. >[snip] >>Get a piece of chicken wire (fencing). Bigger (more area) is better. >> >>Hang the fencing between two poles using insulators between the >>fencing and the poles -- higher is better (and keeping the lowest end >>higher than anyone can reach is a good idea). >> >>Connect a wire from the fencing to an automotive spark plug. Connect >>the other side of the spark plug to the high-voltage terminal of an >>older automotive spark coil. >> >>Connect the low-voltage lead of the spark coil through a rectifier >>diode (100 volts, a few amps) to a battery or capacitor. >> >>Insulate where needed. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Nov 26 00:42:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA08489; Sun, 26 Nov 2000 00:41:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 00:41:07 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: field measurement Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:40:29 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <007101c056da$78864aa0$24ff08d0@default> <3a2110d6.62793311@mail.midiowa.net> <7vd02t484o08sv74larh7hckitahurf2q5@4ax.com> <3a20c756.109519829@mail.midiowa.net> In-Reply-To: <3a20c756.109519829@mail.midiowa.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA08459 Resent-Message-ID: <"A5ARj.0.U42.YoC8w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17622 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Dean T. Miller's message of Sun, 26 Nov 2000 08:28:18 GMT: [snip] >The chicken-wire screen will collect static electricity, and the >voltage will build up enough to fire across the spark plug gap. This >pulse of high voltage goes into the high voltage winding of the spark >coil, with a much lower voltage (approximately 12-15 volts) will come >out of the secondary. The common of the spark coil and the negative >pole of the battery should be grounded (actual copper rod into the >ground under the screen). Ok, so the purpose of the spark plug is to turn DC into AC so that it can be transformed to a lower voltage by the coil. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk A Future For Humanity see: http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Nov 26 00:44:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA09836; Sun, 26 Nov 2000 00:43:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 00:43:50 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: field measurement Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:43:12 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <007101c056da$78864aa0$24ff08d0@default> <3a2110d6.62793311@mail.midiowa.net> <7vd02t484o08sv74larh7hckitahurf2q5@4ax.com> <3a20c756.109519829@mail.midiowa.net> In-Reply-To: <3a20c756.109519829@mail.midiowa.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA09816 Resent-Message-ID: <"zTNUQ1.0.bP2.6rC8w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17623 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Dean T. Miller's message of Sun, 26 Nov 2000 08:28:18 GMT: [snip] >The chicken-wire screen will collect static electricity, and the >voltage will build up enough to fire across the spark plug gap. This [snip] Have you ever seen one of these in operation, and if so how frequently do you get a spark? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk A Future For Humanity see: http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Nov 26 01:41:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA19725; Sun, 26 Nov 2000 01:41:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 01:41:34 -0800 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001125221126.00a85f00@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 22:19:13 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: field measurement In-Reply-To: <7vd02t484o08sv74larh7hckitahurf2q5@4ax.com> References: <3a2110d6.62793311@mail.midiowa.net> <007101c056da$78864aa0$24ff08d0@default> <3a2110d6.62793311@mail.midiowa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"xRq4N.0.5q4.EhD8w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17624 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 09:20 AM 11/26/00 +1100, you wrote: >In reply to Dean T. Miller's message of Sat, 25 Nov 2000 19:28:14 GMT: >Hi Dean, > >I'm missing a couple of facts here. >First, what is the other terminal of the battery connected to? (ground?) >Second is th spark coil just a coil, or is it actually being driven to >produce high voltage? OK... here is what I think Dean is refering to... If you build up a charge on your "high wire" thing... Then you can discharge that (using a spark plug in series) through the high voltage end of an ignition coil and experience a usable output from the low voltage end. At some point you will have to ground the low voltage side of the coil because an ignition coil high voltage end is grounded at the positive terminal of the low voltage coil. Rectify that output and charge something with it. Charlie Ford KC5-OWZ cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Nov 26 04:17:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA06424; Sun, 26 Nov 2000 04:17:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 04:17:28 -0800 Message-ID: <001d01c057a3$1b9354e0$123dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <3.0.6.16.20001125225312.218f1c3a@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Two Small Topics Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 07:19:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"jye_r.0.Ha1.OzF8w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17625 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dave; My Cleveland -type friends tell me that R&D is still around, and the same guy still runs it, but that it moved about 3 or 4 years ago from the downtown location it had been at, out to one of the suburbs. Maybe they changed their name. Maybe when they moved they deleted their mailing list. I dunno. I used to get their catalog also and it was a very good source for HV components and 30 to 50 kV wire. If I can find their new address / phone number, I will post it here for the group. NR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Dameron" To: Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2000 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Two Small Topics > Hi Nick, > At 11:14 AM 11/23/00 -0500, you wrote: > > >One starts with a lead zirconate titanate disc PZT of a size often seen on > the surplus market - about 2.25" by 1/8" thick, with silvered faces. A few > years ago, these were available from R&D Electronics in Cleveland. > > Are they still in business? Several years ago I quit getting catalogs or > any response from them. They had lots of HV and other stuff, even SEM's on > their back cover. > -Dave D. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Nov 26 06:32:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA26812; Sun, 26 Nov 2000 06:32:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 06:32:14 -0800 Message-ID: <005001c057b5$5bec8c20$18ff08d0@default> From: "Larry Canada" To: References: <4.2.0.58.20001125215645.009e0c30@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: field measurement Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 07:29:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"x_Dc_.0.qY6.jxH8w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17627 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hey Charles, In reply to your Saturday, November 25, 2000 9:05 PM message: Good call. I referred to an electrostatic field and I maybe should have said electromagnetic field. Thanks, Larry > At 05:23 AM 11/25/00 -0700, you wrote: > >This may seem pretty basic but, > >If you have an electrostatic field that covers a large area, (my backyard) > >how do you measure that field? It is strong enough to charge a > >capacitor. How do you determine the frequency of the energy source. Can > >you determine the frequency and then measure the wattage? If so, what do > >I need to do this myself? > > If someone could suggest a good book relative to my questions, that > > would be a big help. > >Thanks, Larry > > > Larry: > > My first question is why do you suspect there is an electrostatic field in > your back yard? The rest is confusing... IF it is an electron static > field there will be no frequency... static means not moving and a > "frequency" refers to dynamic conditions (cycles per second) > > If it is a static condition then the spark plug doodad that Dean > recommended should work fine (measurement is another matter) > > If it is a dynamic condition then something more like the crystal radio > discussed in some other posts would be more appropriate. (again measurement > is a problem) > > Charlie Ford > KC5-OWZ > cjford1@yahoo.com > cjford1@swbell.net > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Nov 26 06:32:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA26798; Sun, 26 Nov 2000 06:32:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 06:32:12 -0800 Message-ID: <004f01c057b5$5b4c5480$18ff08d0@default> From: "Larry Canada" To: References: <007101c056da$78864aa0$24ff08d0@default> <3a2110d6.62793311@mail.midiowa.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: field measurement Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 07:22:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"elPx7.0.cY6.ixH8w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17626 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Dean, Thanks for your Saturday, November 25, 2000 12:28 PM suggestions. Most interesting. I will give it a try. Larry From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Nov 26 08:54:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA30990; Sun, 26 Nov 2000 08:53:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 08:53:55 -0800 Message-ID: <001101c057c9$bd478d80$cc3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: Cc: "Lori Lou Schillig" Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 11:55:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0579F.D1F53AE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"pwI_c.0._Z7.Z0K8w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17628 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: A graviton LED This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0579F.D1F53AE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gentlemen; A nutty Sunday idea; but one that maybe someone will have some input on. Over the past several years of trying a variety of anti-gravity = experiments, including the tribo-grav experiments which were posted = here, I have covered the bases of the major contrarian theories of = gravity, such as aether flow, motional e field electrogravity, ZPE = vacuum pressure, etc. Today, I am thinking quantum. Would it be possible to build a device that would be analagous to an = LED, except that it would emit gravitons instead of photons? If any of = you quantum mechanics theorists out there have an idea about this, lets = hear it! We know that in an LED or EL device, a photon is supposed to be emitted = when electron / hole recombination occurs, or an electron falls back to = a lower energy state. Many materials can be used to produce this = effect, GaN, SiC, GaAs, InGaP, ZnS, so on, so on, so on. We also know that in the theory of quantum gravity, when a graviton is = absorbed by mass (nucleus), it (the mass) is given energy in the form of = weight (acceleration toward the graviton source) So therefore, = conversely, if one had a graviton emitting diode, it would experience an = acceleration in the direction of it's beam, just as the earth is = technically attracted to us at the same time we are attracted to it. What materials might be analagous to a heterojunction LED at a nuclear = scale? We could make a junction from a very light atomic material and a = very heavy one (Li:Bi), or ...and I dread to say this...Mg:Bi (argh - I = said it) Now, how would we excite this structure, or pump energy into = it? Forget electrical current or high voltage, that's an electrodynamic = level force. How about heat or ultra-high frequency sound. Or maybe a = nuclear magnetic stimulation. NR PS - Since you can't call it a GED (graviton emitting diode) and you = can't call it a mass diode (MD) we will need to think of a creative = acronym for it. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0579F.D1F53AE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Gentlemen;

A nutty Sunday idea; but one that maybe = someone=20 will have some input on.

Over the past several years of trying a = variety of=20 anti-gravity experiments, including the tribo-grav experiments which = were posted=20 here, I have covered the bases of the major contrarian theories of = gravity, such=20 as aether flow, motional e field electrogravity, ZPE vacuum pressure, = etc. =20 Today, I am thinking quantum.

Would it be possible to build a device = that would=20 be analagous to an LED, except that it would emit gravitons instead of=20 photons? If any of you quantum mechanics theorists out there have = an idea=20 about this, lets hear it!

We know that in an LED or EL device, a = photon is=20 supposed to be emitted when electron / hole recombination occurs, or an = electron=20 falls back to a lower energy state. Many materials can be used to = produce=20 this effect, GaN, SiC, GaAs, InGaP, ZnS, so on, so on, so = on.

We also know that in the theory of = quantum gravity,=20 when a graviton is absorbed by mass (nucleus), it (the mass) is given = energy in=20 the form of weight (acceleration toward the graviton source) So = therefore,=20 conversely, if one had a graviton emitting diode, it would experience an = acceleration in the direction of it's beam, just as the earth is = technically=20 attracted to us at the same time we are attracted to it.

What materials might be analagous to a=20 heterojunction LED at a nuclear scale? We could make a junction = from a=20 very light atomic material and a very heavy one (Li:Bi), or ...and I = dread to=20 say this...Mg:Bi (argh - I said it) Now, how would we excite this=20 structure, or pump energy into it? Forget electrical current or = high=20 voltage, that's an electrodynamic level force. How about heat or=20 ultra-high frequency sound. Or maybe a nuclear magnetic=20 stimulation.

PS - Since you can't call it a GED = (graviton=20 emitting diode) and you can't call it a mass diode (MD) we will need to = think of=20 a creative acronym for it.

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0579F.D1F53AE0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Nov 26 11:02:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA32032; Sun, 26 Nov 2000 11:01:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 11:01:50 -0800 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: field measurement Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:01:49 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Message-ID: <3a215c6d.147692608@mail.midiowa.net> References: <007101c056da$78864aa0$24ff08d0@default> <3a2110d6.62793311@mail.midiowa.net> <7vd02t484o08sv74larh7hckitahurf2q5@4ax.com> <3a20c756.109519829@mail.midiowa.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id LAA32009 Resent-Message-ID: <"qeoa2.0.Pq7.SuL8w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17629 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Robin, On Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:43:12 +1100, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >In reply to Dean T. Miller's message of Sun, 26 Nov 2000 08:28:18 GMT: >[snip] >>The chicken-wire screen will collect static electricity, and the >>voltage will build up enough to fire across the spark plug gap. This >[snip] >Have you ever seen one of these in operation, and if so how frequently do >you get a spark? Several years ago I made one up using one of my long antennas (I'm a ham radio operator). That one zapped anywhere from once every few minutes to many times/second, depending on conditions. I haven't tried any ambitious project with the chicken wire. :) But maybe I will, as I have 3, 30-foot antenna supports laying around, a bunch of insulators used for electrified fences, a bunch of old spark plugs and can get some cheap chicken wire. About the only thing I'd have to buy would be a spark coil. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Nov 26 11:02:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA32231; Sun, 26 Nov 2000 11:02:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 11:02:11 -0800 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: field measurement Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:02:11 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Message-ID: <3a225e27.148134763@mail.midiowa.net> References: <007101c056da$78864aa0$24ff08d0@default> <3a2110d6.62793311@mail.midiowa.net> <7vd02t484o08sv74larh7hckitahurf2q5@4ax.com> <3a20c756.109519829@mail.midiowa.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id LAA32202 Resent-Message-ID: <"XoSFc2.0.Wt7.ouL8w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17630 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:40:29 +1100, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >In reply to Dean T. Miller's message of Sun, 26 Nov 2000 08:28:18 GMT: >[snip] >>The chicken-wire screen will collect static electricity, and the >>voltage will build up enough to fire across the spark plug gap. This >>pulse of high voltage goes into the high voltage winding of the spark >>coil, with a much lower voltage (approximately 12-15 volts) will come >>out of the secondary. The common of the spark coil and the negative >>pole of the battery should be grounded (actual copper rod into the >>ground under the screen). > >Ok, so the purpose of the spark plug is to turn DC into AC so that it can be >transformed to a lower voltage by the coil. >[snip] Yup. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Nov 26 12:56:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA00830; Sun, 26 Nov 2000 12:56:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 12:56:01 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <6f.d7e4897.2752d2b9@aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 15:55:21 EST To: energy21@listbot.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"OQtXp1.0.hC.XZN8w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17631 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Statement tv last night about universe! I was watching The Discovery Channel last night. The program was about super novas. During the program the group of researchers stated that they now believe that two-thirds of the universe is made of a strange exotic vacuum energy! Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Nov 26 15:39:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA15708; Sun, 26 Nov 2000 15:39:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 15:39:21 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <2d.40ac2bc.2752f8f4@aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 18:38:28 EST To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, newman-l@emachine.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_2d.40ac2bc.2752f8f4_boundary" X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"Bsu8n2.0.Dr3.fyP8w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17632 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: More simple drawing of test results configuration --part1_2d.40ac2bc.2752f8f4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit See attached 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17:48:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 17:48:22 -0800 Message-ID: <002901c05814$5f000180$6c3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 20:50:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01C057EA.745D28C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"GTU4q.0.sj4.brR8w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17633 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: LED tractor beam? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C057EA.745D28C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sometimes life is weird. Earlier today, I posted my idle musings = about the graviton equivalent of an LED. A couple of hours ago, I got off the phone with Sam Faile who spent = some time updating me about his LED experiments (the GaN blue and green = LEDs / current anomaly) Now Sam has seen something that he feels is an = LED related gravity or force effect. I'll add the caveat that he is = going to have to run some experiments to isolate some possible = electrostatic artifacts, and that I myself feel the need to try this = myself before I get too worked up. However, if it is not a thermal / = electrostatic artifact, it is a very cool thing. Sam claims he took one of his Nichia GaN LEDs (Blue variety) and = drove it extremely hard with forward current. (Nichia rates the GaN = LEDs at 50 mA absolute max for light duty. Sam says he was up over 100 = mA by using 4.5V applied from 3 D cells. No idea why that didn't blow = out the quantum well junction) After a few minutes in the darkened room, Sam noticed that the color = of the LED was shifting to the green, and suspected this was due to the = extreme stress on the junction. When he looked at the LED from the = side, however, he says that along with the blue light beam was a fainter = but definite red light emission. One could see it sparkle at the tip of = the clear acrylic LED lens. Rather than blow out, the LED stayed on, with the red effect in the = blue light constant. Sam began to think that this might be a red shift = effect ala Stavros Dmitriou's experiments. So he suspended a thin strip = of tissue paper vertically, and brought the blue LED near the paper, = with the beam directed forward at the paper. He says that when he got = to within about 1/2 inch, the paper swung over toward the LED about 1/4 = inch. He repeated this several times from both directions, and the = effect remained consistent. The effect did not seem to be present with another LED that was = running at somewhere around 90 mA, and the red beam component was not = there either. Sam refers to this as the LED "tractor beam". He does realize though = that there is plenty of artifact isolation needs to be done on it. I = myself wonder how the blue LED's can hold up so long at these ultra-high = current levels. Nevertheless, Sam asked if I would go public with this = onto the list, so I have. This week, I will try to replicate the effect = with one of my own blue GaN LEDs, although it is not a Nichia. (I think = it is a Panasonic GaN) NR ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C057EA.745D28C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sometimes life is = weird. Earlier=20 today, I posted my idle musings about the graviton equivalent of an=20 LED.

A couple of hours ago, I = got off the=20 phone with Sam Faile who spent some time updating me about his LED = experiments=20 (the GaN blue and green LEDs / current anomaly) Now Sam has seen = something=20 that he feels is an LED related gravity or force effect. I'll add = the=20 caveat that he is going to have to run some experiments to isolate some = possible=20 electrostatic artifacts, and that I myself feel the need to try this = myself=20 before I get too worked up. However, if it is not a thermal /=20 electrostatic artifact, it is a very cool thing.

Sam claims he took one of = his Nichia=20 GaN LEDs (Blue variety) and drove it extremely hard with forward = current. =20 (Nichia rates the GaN LEDs at 50 mA absolute max for light duty. = Sam says=20 he was up over 100 mA by using 4.5V applied from 3 D cells. No = idea why=20 that didn't blow out the quantum well junction)

After a few minutes in the = darkened=20 room, Sam noticed that the color of the LED was shifting to the green, = and=20 suspected this was due to the extreme stress on the junction. When = he=20 looked at the LED from the side, however, he says that along with the = blue light=20 beam was a fainter but definite red light emission. One could see = it=20 sparkle at the tip of the clear acrylic LED lens.

Rather than blow out, the = LED stayed=20 on, with the red effect in the blue light constant. Sam began to = think=20 that this might be a red shift effect ala Stavros Dmitriou's = experiments. =20 So he suspended a thin strip of tissue paper vertically, and brought the = blue=20 LED near the paper, with the beam directed forward at the paper. = He says=20 that when he got to within about 1/2 inch, the paper swung over toward = the LED=20 about 1/4 inch. He repeated this several times from both = directions, and=20 the effect remained consistent.

The effect did not seem to = be present=20 with another LED that was running at somewhere around 90 mA, and the red = beam=20 component was not there either.

Sam refers to this as the = LED "tractor=20 beam". He does realize though that there is plenty of artifact = isolation=20 needs to be done on it. I myself wonder how the blue LED's can = hold up so=20 long at these ultra-high current levels. Nevertheless, Sam asked = if I=20 would go public with this onto the list, so I have. This week, I = will try=20 to replicate the effect with one of my own blue GaN LEDs, although it is = not a=20 Nichia. (I think it is a Panasonic GaN)

------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C057EA.745D28C0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Nov 26 19:30:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA16842; Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:29:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:29:10 -0800 Message-ID: <00db01c05821$96d0b840$57025bd1@default> From: "chuck's corner" To: , "energy21" , , , Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 22:24:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"LyuVo2.0.i64.5KT8w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17634 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: virusalert!!!!! PLZ BEWARE OF NAVIDAD VIRUS!!!!! McAffee virus alert states it is now upgraded to a moderate level infection and until nov. 23 had no fix. Also may require manual removal. Chuck's corner Chuck Farrar farrar@together.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Nov 26 22:38:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA04688; Sun, 26 Nov 2000 22:38:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 22:38:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 22:37:56 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: LED tractor beam? In-Reply-To: <002901c05814$5f000180$6c3dee3f@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"vM-N-3.0.991.75W8w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17635 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 26 Nov 2000, Nick Reiter wrote: > He says that when he got to within about 1/2 inch, the paper swung over > toward the LED about 1/4 inch. He repeated this several times from both > directions, and the effect remained consistent. But did the force appear/vanish as he turned the LED on/off? Someone on Keelynet in the early '90s saw something weird with LEDs pushing tissue paper away. I think it was a large pulsed array of red SMT LEDs (undergoing life test or something.) I remember thinking that it could have been caused by a rising plume of hot air above the array. If the ambient humidity is low, then rubbing a plastic LED package against cloth or even on dry skin could charge it up. Lick the LED to discharge (or otherwise slightly dampen it.) But if the anomalous force disappears when the LED goes dark, and reappears when it lights, then it certainly isn't caused by surface charge! ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Nov 26 22:48:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA08335; Sun, 26 Nov 2000 22:48:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 22:48:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 22:48:31 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l cc: larrycanada@mcn.net Subject: Re: [FG]: field measurement In-Reply-To: <007101c056da$78864aa0$24ff08d0@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"vsUny2.0.822.3FW8w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17636 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 25 Nov 2000, Larry Canada wrote: > This may seem pretty basic but, If you have an electrostatic field that > covers a large area, (my backyard) how do you measure that field? It is > strong enough to charge a capacitor. How do you determine the frequency > of the energy source. Can you determine the frequency and then measure > the wattage? If so, what do I need to do this myself? If it's DC or very low freq, then a Field Mill Electrometer can measure it. See http://www.sciam.com/1999/0799issue/0799amsci.html For higher frequencies it's lots easier. Connect an oscilloscope probe to an insulated metal plate (with the scope ground going to ground, or even to an earth-ground stake if you want.) Crank up the gain and look for waves. The probe impedance will partially "short out" the e-field, so voltage readings will be far lower than the actual voltage between plate and ground. If you detect a field, then with extra work you can rig up a way to calibrate your metal plate and actually measure the field strength. (I'd try putting a small plate under a much larger plate which is connected to a known voltage). ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 27 08:12:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA04931; Mon, 27 Nov 2000 08:07:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 08:07:57 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 11:07:52 -0500 Message-Id: <200011271607.LAA19479@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: virusalert!!!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"GTXU01.0.yC1.SRe8w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17637 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >PLZ BEWARE OF NAVIDAD VIRUS!!!!! > McAffee virus alert states it is now upgraded to a moderate level >infection and until nov. 23 had no fix. Also may require manual removal. >Chuck's corner >Chuck Farrar >farrar@together.net Thanks for posting the warning, Chuck. Too often, these virus alerts are a form of virus in themselves, but someone on another list just passed the Navidad virus, I remembered your post, and managed to keep the virus out of my system. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 27 13:17:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA09649; Mon, 27 Nov 2000 13:12:28 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 13:12:24 -0800 (PST) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <32.d052b34.275427cd@aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:10:37 EST To: energy21@listbot.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, tlamb3@mindspring.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 114 Resent-Message-ID: <"gDo8L1.0.UM2.tui8w"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17638 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Drawing on web site For those who could not open or receive this drawings, here are two web sites one drawing on each site. Thanks, Butch http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/myhomepage/profile.html and http://hometown.aol.com/lafonte11648/myhomepage/profile.html Hi all, During two days of hard testing I came across a way to run the motor/generator in what appears to be a major advance. I changed from two repulsion air coils to three and made the forth coil a ferrite core, but the major break thru was in realizing that the attraction ferrite core coil should not have any power going to it during the equilibrium phase after the magnet are attracted to the ferrite (circuit open) and only it's generator action working and it working only as the magnet was leaving the coil center. This required a diode. The repulsion coils are now wired in parallel and produce the same total back emf voltage but with many times the total current flow for repulsion. The magnet is removed from the ferrite core coil in equilibrium with ease now because the attraction coil is only generating and not being powered and generating also. That's a lot of drag eliminated. I have tested all these things and they work perfect. The next step is to use capacitors now to recycle the main power pulse and make it self running. Here is a drawing taken to an extreme to help get the idea across. More details tomorrow. Regards, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 27 13:54:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA08551; Mon, 27 Nov 2000 13:53:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 13:53:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp4.ihug.co.nz: Host 203-173-205-159.akl.ihugultra.co.nz [203.173.205.159] claimed to be ihug.co.nz Message-ID: <3A22D01A.D1F41AA2@ihug.co.nz> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:20:26 +1300 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: LED tractor beam? References: <002901c05814$5f000180$6c3dee3f@default> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uY-ew1.0.W52.rVj8w"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17639 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Reminds me of the force that Eric Dollard found emanating from a vacuum bulb powered by a tesla coil...

Nick Reiter wrote:

Sometimes life is weird. Earlier today, I posted my idle musings about the graviton equivalent of an LED. A couple of hours ago, I got off the phone with Sam Faile who spent some time updating me about his LED experiments (the GaN blue and green LEDs / current anomaly) Now Sam has seen something that he feels is an LED related gravity or force effect. I'll add the caveat that he is going to have to run some experiments to isolate some possible electrostatic artifacts, and that I myself feel the need to try this myself before I get too worked up. However, if it is not a thermal / electrostatic artifact, it is a very cool thing. Sam claims he took one of his Nichia GaN LEDs (Blue variety) and drove it extremely hard with forward current. (Nichia rates the GaN LEDs at 50 mA absolute max for light duty. Sam says he was up over 100 mA by using 4.5V applied from 3 D cells. No idea why that didn't blow out the quantum well junction) After a few minutes in the darkened room, Sam noticed that the color of the LED was shifting to the green, and suspected this was due to the extreme stress on the junction. When he looked at the LED from the side, however, he says that along with the blue light beam was a fainter but definite red light emission. One could see it sparkle at the tip of the clear acrylic LED lens. Rather than blow out, the LED stayed on, with the red effect in the blue light constant. Sam began to think that this might be a red shift effect ala Stavros Dmitriou's experiments. So he suspended a thin strip of tissue paper vertically, and brought the blue LED near the paper, with the beam directed forward at the paper. He says that when he got to within about 1/2 inch, the paper swung over toward the LED about 1/4 inch. He repeated this several times from both directions, and the effect remained consistent. The effect did not seem to be present with another LED that was running at somewhere around 90 mA, and the red beam component was not there either. Sam refers to this as the LED "tractor beam". He does realize though that there is plenty of artifact isolation needs to be done on it. I myself wonder how the blue LED's can hold up so long at these ultra-high current levels. Nevertheless, Sam asked if I would go public with this onto the list, so I have. This week, I will try to replicate the effect with one of my own blue GaN LEDs, although it is not a Nichia. (I think it is a Panasonic GaN) NR

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Nov 27 15:03:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA04312; Mon, 27 Nov 2000 15:01:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 15:01:57 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: