From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 1 07:30:55 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA12612; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 07:29:38 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 07:29:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 10:28:12 -0500 (EST) From: George Elston To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements In-Reply-To: <32A066A8.5153@lakeweb.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"XhZNO.0.u43.XHQeo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/668 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 30 Nov 1996, Dan Bloomquist wrote: > I wish I could remember the story. Someone had even done > Sci-Fi on the subject. It has to do with a demon that would > let only the lower energy molecules threw a passage so as to > segregate the thermally active molecules from the cold ones. > > The problem being, If you could create such a demon to do the > work, it would take more energy to segregate the molecules than > you would derive from the process. > > Maybe someone remembers the story better. It may have something > to do with the uncertainty of working at the molecular level. > > Best, Dan. Maxwell's Deamon, and if I remember correctly, it can be produced and it does separate the hot from the cold molecules. Perhaps someone else remembers a source for the construction plans. As I remember it is a spiral tube, like a nautalis shell, with a vent at the end (center), the hot gas goes in one direction and the cold gas goes in the other. George gelston@gate.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 1 07:37:53 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA14496; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 07:37:12 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 07:37:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 16:36:50 GMT Message-Id: <199612011636.QAA24981@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements Resent-Message-ID: <"N9sH81.0.KY3.dOQeo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/669 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >On Sat, 30 Nov 1996 12:26:37 GMT, Josef Hasslberger wrote: >[snip] >>I saw your statement (above) and want to tell you that you very probably >>have a workable idea. >> >>In fact thermal energy is undirected molecular velocity, and a vortex with >>all probability has the ability to re-direct that energy into vectorially >>aligned movement. >> Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > >I have read some of what you have on your home page, but not all. I think >you may have missed two points that I consider important. (If not, please >correct me). > >1) When a river runs down hill toward the sea it picks of kinetic energy as >it goes. If a dam is placed in its path, then this kinetic energy is >converted into heat in the lake above the dam, and radiated into the >environment. The "Finzi-Herbrand-Turbine" that you mention, appears to >simply make use of the kinetic energy of the water, without slowing it >down behind a dam first. IOW the river has had an opportunity to pick up >speed ever since it left the previous dam upstream (12 km?), which is also, >due to the slope of the countryside, probably hundreds of meters higher. >Most of the kinetic energy of the river, will however have been lost to >friction with the river bed, and turbulence, along the way. >It would seem prudent, to measure the actual kinetic energy in the water at >any given point, before deciding which method to employ in harnessing that >energy. Alternatively, one can deduct that the maximum amount of energy can > >be extracted from a river by ensuring that the "top" of one lake starts at >the "foot" of the previous dam. This will however probably not be the >cheapest method of extracting the energy. The method that uses the kinetic >energy of the river itself, is certainly cheaper per kWh produced (no dam >construction required), however it does waste energy that is lost due to >friction and turbulence (unless dams would otherwise not be optimally >placed and specified anyway). Water, according to Schauberger, is a very strange critter. Schauberger essentially says that water needs coolness (it's 'anomaly point' or point of highest density is at 4 deg C) and minerals, which it picks up, almost gobbles up, as it runs down a river bed that has rocks or gravel in it, in order to be at its maximum capacity for doing work. Both of these things are denied the water when you put up a dam. The water heats up, and it can no longer grind up the stones/gravel which it apparently needs as catalytic substance. On its way down a river, water does not pick up kinetic energy, over and above a certain point (which is reached very soon) but it picks up and uses up this kinetic energy in an endlessly repeating cycle of acceleration and deceleration, of whirls and falls. If it simply picked up kinetic energy, and kept that energy in the form of motion, it would gain incredible speed and would thus wreak untold havoc with its river bed and with anything else that was in the way. Clearly this is not so, and we must think that water has its own 'restraining mechanism' built in. Now in order to utilize the kinetic energy of water, it would be necessary to provide a path to the flow of the water, that somehow tricks the natural restraining mechanism and allows a considerable increase of velocity. This velocity is not a function of the total altitude difference as the hydraulic experts would have us believe, but can be rather quickly achieved, if a correct configuration of the water's flow pattern is brought about, that eliminates the continual decelaration, while allowing and promoting the acceleration phase. Among the possible tricks to use are a cone-shaped, narrowing bed of flow (such as we use in jets and rockets), the promotion of a longitudinal vortex inside such a cone-shaped bed, or the creation of a vortex in a 'snail configuration'. To explain this latter one, imagine a vortex chamber into which you introduce air laterally, so that it is forced to form a vortex. The flow velocity of the turning air is something like 30 to 40 times faster than that of the air entering the vortex chanmber through a duct. Water may not behave exactly like air, but I imagine that an similar increase in velocity (maybe not as pronounced) would still be possible. Unlike air however, water is a comparatively heavy medium, and so even a moderate increase in velocity does bring a whooping increase in it's kinetic energy which may be utilized. So in this sense, I think that your above statement that the water simply picks up kinetic energy perpetually along it's path towards the sea, is an oversimplification and may not be in accordance with what is actually happening. > >2) I have thought about the "vortex", and come up with the following. >Water is a "lopsided" molecule. I.e. it has a heavy oxygen atom on one >side, and two light hydrogen atoms on the other side. It is also polar. >Consider now what happens when such mass of such molecules is placed in >a centrifuge. There should be a tendency for the molecules to align >themselves, such that the oxygen atom is on the "outside", while the >hydrogen is on the "inside" (due to centrifugal force). This alignment >will have a secondary effect. Due to the polarisation of the molecules, >an overall electric field will be induced, that tends to further align >the molecules, analogous to the way that iron filings align in a magnetic >field. Furthermore, this electric field will get stronger with each >molecule that becomes aligned, and adds its own field. Eventually, it >will become almost impossible for molecules to not align with the field. >From a macroscopic point of view, this manifests itself as a reduction >in the degrees of freedom of motion that a water molecule has under these >conditions. IOW, it is no longer free to rotate. Hence the energy of >rotation of the molecules must now be distributed across the other degrees >of freedom. These comprise vibration and translation. This means that some >of that rotational energy may now become available as kinetic energy of >the fluid as a whole (Individual molecular movement may also be restricted >by the field). This would appear to comprise a form of "Maxwell demon", >in that disordered energy in the form of heat may end up as ordered >energy in the form of kinetic energy of the fluid mass. I suspect that >it is this mechanism that may have been at the heart of some of Victor >Schauberger's inventions (discoveries?). >BTW the energy involved here is not trivial. >According to Boltzmann, the average energy per degree of freedom is 1/2kT >per molecule, or 19 kWh / cubic meter of water. So 50 cubic meters / sec. >Would yield approx. 19*50*3600 kW*sec/sec = 3.5 GW. So even a tiny fraction >of this power would be very useful! > I believe your second point is close to the truth. But one thing you should know is, that in a vortex, the heavy elements tend to accumulate in the center, and the lighter ones on the outside of the flow, contrary to what one would think if centrifugal force was the only or the main force present. In fact, a vortex actually gives origin to a force that is clearly opposite to centrifugal. It is generally called centripetal and is what gives the medium following a vortex flow pattern properties that are kind of hard to understand from a current paradigm scientific viewpoint, such as decreased friction at the interface between the medium and the restraining path (pipe), such as acceleration of flow at the center, such as decrease of internal temperature, such as ability to transport heavier-than-water particles at the center of its flow, and so on. This is not intended as a criticism of your second point, but merely a bit of additional data to consider. Regards - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 1 09:37:10 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA07365; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 09:34:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 09:34:12 -0800 X-Sender: Byrun_Fox@pop.mindlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 09:34:08 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun Fox) Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: <"DZXCU.0.qo1.H6Seo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/670 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > Maxwell's Deamon, and if I remember correctly, it can be produced and it >does separate the hot from the cold molecules. Perhaps someone else >remembers a source for the construction plans. As I remember it is a >spiral tube, like a nautalis shell, with a vent at the end (center), the >hot gas goes in one direction and the cold gas goes in the other. > >George >gelston@gate.net > I too have some memory of this device. Seems it was very simple, a simple tube with a washer in the middle, but I appologize that my memory is very vague of it. Maybe someone can offer more. Byrun. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 1 21:53:25 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA04986; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 21:47:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 21:47:38 -0800 Message-ID: <32A266D1.6DC2@gorge.net> Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 21:19:13 -0800 From: tom@gorge.net (Tom Miller) Reply-To: tom@gorge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Maxwell daemon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EGht02.0.3C1.prceo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/672 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Perhaps this refers to a "vortex tube." aka Ranque-Hilsche vortex tube. A Good description/history can be found on the web: http://club.eng.cam.ac.uk/~ttc/handout.html It uses compressed air, and separates temperatures, or gases. Alleged to be inefficient, due to the cost (in energy) to compress the original air. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 1 23:05:31 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA00254; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:04:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:04:25 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 07:03:34 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32a349a9.13555408@mail.netspace.net.au> References: <199612011636.QAA24981@korovev.stm.it> In-Reply-To: <199612011636.QAA24981@korovev.stm.it> X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99g/32.335 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yu6jW3.0.p3.uzdeo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/674 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 1 Dec 1996 16:36:50 GMT, Josef Hasslberger wrote: [snip] >I believe your second point is close to the truth. But one thing you should >know is, that in a vortex, the heavy elements tend to accumulate in the >center, and the lighter ones on the outside of the flow, contrary to what >one would think if centrifugal force was the only or the main force >present. In fact, a vortex actually gives origin to a force that is clearly >opposite to centrifugal. It is generally called centripetal and is what >gives the medium following a vortex flow pattern properties that are kind >of hard to understand from a current paradigm scientific viewpoint, such as >decreased friction at the interface between the medium and the restraining >path (pipe), such as acceleration of flow at the center, such as decrease >of internal temperature, such as ability to transport heavier-than-water >particles at the center of its flow, and so on. If you think carefully about what I wrote above, re. the electric field, You will see that this field tends to contract the water, causing the stream to become narrower in its path. It may also reduce the friction with the sides of the container. It is this field which is responsible for your "centripetal" force. Decrease of internal temperature, is exactly what I described, as the energy of the rotary motion of the molecules (and possibly also some translational motion), is redistributed. Energy is conserved, in as much as the increased kinetic energy of the fluid as a whole comes at a cost of temperature. Later this water will be cold, and reabsorb thermal energy from the environment. Note also, that as the water is contracted it also becomes denser. Hence its ability to support loads which normally sink in water of normal density. Also due to the alignment of the molecules, flow tends to be more laminar, with much less turbulence, which also reduces friction with the container. BTW as the field is generated by the molecules themselves, its effect is strongest in the centre of the fluid. > >This is not intended as a criticism of your second point, but merely a bit >of additional data to consider. Thank you. [snip] What is missing so far from this explanation is a discussion of conservation of momentum, and conservation of angular momentum. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 1 23:42:46 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA04941; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:29:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:29:01 -0800 From: silverf@primenet.com (Borg Of The Celestial Dragon) To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Reality Fields.... Looking for insight. Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 07:42:33 GMT Organization: Shakaran Enterprises Reply-To: silverf@primenet.com Message-ID: <32a385ae.23855925@mailhost.primenet.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99g/32.326 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"OJ8rX.0.6D1.yKeeo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/675 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Ok, I've been kicking this around for some time now and think I finally have it worked out enough to put down and discuss it. First off, to start everything, I am researching magic and the scientific explanation of forces of energy people claim to be magic. I believe that Quantum Physics and Zero Point Energy are beginning to unlock the secrets of energy that people have been using for centuries as what we call magic. Primative ZPE devices focusing willpower (ie. wands, amulets, talismen, etc.) were common at one time. What I am talking about here is reality fields. Fields of quantum reality that float around everything reinforced constantly by the mass conciousness. It started about a year ago. I had built my computer from scratch from parts that I could barely afford. A lot of it is jury rigged hard core. Anyway, after a lot of tinkering I finally got it to run very well. I had no problems until I moved in with some room-mates. After about a month of letting them access programs and the internet... the computer started having problems... hardware problems. It was wierd, The hard drive would fail, or the disk drive... sometimes memory would go corrupt on bootup. Anyway, when I spent time looking at it or even just sitting at the system the problems would go away. I came to find that i could control wether or not the system would fail... I think I was (and still am) keeping the system running by the constant enforcing of the Quantum field surrounding it. I believe that this is how all of our reality is held together. It would also seem that these fields are linked with Zero Point Energy. I wonder if concentrated effort would increase output on a free-energy device? With practice I also believe that one could increase control and strength of these fields. Maybe even engineer the quantum reality field from scratch. I have had some other experiences of the like. I believe that people alter reality subconsiously. For example, Avoiding situations where people should have been killed in some sort of accident. I was just wondering if anyone else had experiences or thoughts or even tips on controlling these fields. =20 I realize that I am not very concise in my ramblings... that is why I am asking for input and ideas to help focus it better for me. Borg Of The Celestial Dragon. Accolyte, Warrior, Dragon. "Ignorance is the greatest enemy of freedom." "Enjoy Diversity, for without it everyone would be EXACTLY like you and that would get boring fast." "Resistance is futile, you will be flamed." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 2 01:40:47 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA17171; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 01:40:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 01:40:00 -0800 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 11:04:56 GMT Message-ID: <32a2b5a2.2023821@mail.zip.com.au> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"JVVXS1.0.CC4.lFgeo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/676 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 01 Dec 1996 09:34:08 -0800, Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun =46ox) wrote: _>> Maxwell's Deamon, and if I remember correctly, it can be produced _>>and it does separate the hot from the cold molecules.=20 And the lighter from the heavier! _>>Perhaps someone else remembers a source for the construction=20 _>>plans. As I remember it is a spiral tube, like a nautalis shell,=20 _>>with a vent at the end (center), the hot gas goes in one direction=20 _>>and the cold gas goes in the other. _>I too have some memory of this device. Seems it was very simple,=20 _>a simple tube with a washer in the middle, but I appologize that my=20 _>memory is very vague of it. Maybe someone can offer more.=20 What you guys are talking about are Ranque-Hilsch vortex tubes. Tim Cockerill's web site=20 http://t_cockerill_pc.sunderland.ac.uk/rhvtmatl/rhvtinfo.html contains a wealth of information about 'em. I believe he is doing a=20 thesis about them. Note: things may be better now but a month or=20 so back when I last browsed his site it was quite slow and not on=20 line all the time, so keep trying. http://www.palaver.com/artx/vortex/product.htm and http://www.newmantools.com/vortex.htm are two web sites of companies that actually make vortex tubes. There's also the site our gracious host pointed out the other week, http://www.ifdt.uh.edu/vtc/ or The Vortex Technology Center, which depicts a number of vortex-related systems. Hope this material helps y'all. Cheers all Alan. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Quantum Mechanics: The Dreams that Stuff is made of. - Michael Sinz =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 2 05:08:03 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA00995; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 04:54:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 04:54:10 -0800 Message-Id: <199612021253.HAA004.76@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 02 Dec 96 07:42:29 +0000 From: "Charlie Hodgson" To: silverf@primenet.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Reality Fields.... Looking for insight. X-Mailer: Ultimedia Mail/2 Lite, IBM T. J. Watson Research Center Content-ID: <52_112_4_849530549> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ytJwr3.0.PF.n5jeo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/677 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > I have had some other experiences of the like. I believe that > people alter reality subconsiously. For example, Avoiding situations > where people should have been killed in some sort of accident. > This is a little too metaphysical for this group, but nonetheless, I'm interested in it, for other reasons. A lot has been written on this. I suggest you read some of Jane Robert's 'Seth' books, specifically 'The Seth Material'. Your thoughts do not stray to far from what is discussed in this book. To sum it up, Seth says, that each individual creates thier own reality and physical world around them, in thier own sphere of conciousness. Your reality differs from mine in some respects. Charlie. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 2 05:55:28 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA11245; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 05:54:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 05:54:31 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:53:50 GMT Message-Id: <199612021453.OAA19853@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements Resent-Message-ID: <"VI47i2.0.Xl2.L-jeo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/678 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 2/12/1996 Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >If you think carefully about what I wrote above, re. the electric field, >You will see that this field tends to contract the water, causing the >stream to become narrower in its path. It may also reduce the friction with >the sides of the container. It is this field which is responsible for your >"centripetal" force. Decrease of internal temperature, is exactly what I >described, as the energy of the rotary motion of the molecules (and >possibly also some translational motion), is redistributed. >Energy is conserved, in as much as the increased kinetic energy of the >fluid as a whole comes at a cost of temperature. Later this water will >be cold, and reabsorb thermal energy from the environment. > >Note also, that as the water is contracted it also becomes denser. Hence >its ability to support loads which normally sink in water of normal >density. Also due to the alignment of the molecules, flow tends to be >more laminar, with much less turbulence, which also reduces friction >with the container. >BTW as the field is generated by the molecules themselves, its effect is >strongest in the centre of the fluid. Agree with your points. >What is missing so far from this explanation is a discussion of >conservation of momentum, and conservation of angular momentum. > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk Conservation of momentum should not be a problem, as we are talking about agitation (motion) of moleculed due to increased temperatures, which are offset by translational motion and decreased temperature. Angular momentum is over my head to make a statement; but possibly that is why the vortex turns, because pre-existing angular momentum of the molecules, once they are electrically aligned, will express itself in the macroscopic vortical movement we observe in water? Regards - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 4 10:07:51 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA26267; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:02:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:02:03 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:13:56 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: test again, ignore Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"mIhHs1.0.GQ6.QoRfo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/679 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: works this time? ................................freenrg-L.................................... William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd Moderator: FREENRG-L VORTEX-L TAOSHUM-L WEBHEAD-L http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com voice:206-781-3320 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 4 17:46:00 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA16167; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:43:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:43:21 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:41:13 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: FREENRG-L digest now available Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2NfRG.0.Ky3.rYYfo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/680 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If FREENRG-L chokes your mailbox with too many small messages, now you can opt to have it choke your mailbox with one *larger* message! The "digest", a compilation of messages with MIME header, is sent every two days, or after 40K of mail is received, whichever comes first. Digests are sent via a separate listserver. To turn them on, subscribe to freenrg-digest, then unsubscribe from freenrg-L. To subscribe to freenrg-digest, send a blank message to: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com with the word "subscribe" in the subject line of the message header. Once you have started receiving digests, you can unsubscribe from the normal freenrg-L message traffic. To unsubscribe, send a blank message to: freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com with the word "subscribe" in the subject line of the message header. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 4 18:46:41 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA24854; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:21:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:21:54 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:51:51 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Radio Interview Planned: Resent-Message-ID: <"6NIUw.0.846.07Zfo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/681 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Radio Interview Planned: Energy machine inventor Joseph Newman has been scheduled for a live interview on the United Broadcasting Network (Elliot Stein Show) on Sunday, December 8th, 1996 from 8-10pm (Central Time Zone). This Show will be carried on approximately 100 affiliated radio stations. Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 4 21:37:36 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA03280; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 21:22:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 21:22:57 -0800 Message-Id: From: rpet@iglou.com (Robert Pettus) Subject: Re: FREENRG-L digest now available To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:19:29 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: from "William Beaty" at Dec 4, 96 05:41:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"K9AU71.0.zo.kmbfo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/682 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Once you have started receiving digests, you can unsubscribe from the > normal freenrg-L message traffic. To unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com > > with the word "subscribe" in the subject line of the message header. ^^^^^^^^^^^ Shouldn't that be "UNsubscribe"? > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 5 00:39:31 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA06333; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:37:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:37:27 -0800 (PST) From: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Message-Id: <199612050837.AAA06333@mail.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-l Digest V96 #1 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume96/1 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain freenrg-l Digest Volume 96 : Issue 1 Today's Topics: The Universe Re: FS: Personal Schumann Resonance device kits (fwd) Tetrahedral Co-ordinate System Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements Re: Reality Fields.... Looking for insight. Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements The Universe Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements FREENRG-L digest now available Re: Vacuum Fluctuations The Universe nasapetition.html (fwd) test, ignore ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:18:13 +0000 From: 9512675@UL.IE (T. SOLINAC) To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: The Universe Message-Id: <199612021558.HAA02401@mx1.eskimo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Could someone tell me, if you know off hand, of any underlying fundamental freqencies that exist and are know, relating to the earths magnetic field and or the Universe: 1.713 Hz comes to mind but I am not sure of the accuracy....long time ago since I read it and cannot seem to find it again. Bart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:42:10 -0800 (PST) From: Michael E Hughes To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: FS: Personal Schumann Resonance device kits (fwd) Message-Id: <199612021742.JAA24114@sure.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:50 PM 11/30/96 -0700, you wrote: >I heard that the frequency have now moved up to about 9hz. > >Ed > Possibly, but do you know WHY it has moved up? (hint: pollution is one reason) -mike -------------------------------------------------------------------- email: orionchm@sure.net Visit our web page: http://www.sure.net/~orionchm Call, write or Email us for more information on all our products... OrionChem Products for Hospital, Laboratory and Home 2221 E. Winston Rd #G Anaheim, CA 92806 (714) 991-9432 ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:24:51 -0500 (EST) From: John Alexander Lotoski To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Tetrahedral Co-ordinate System Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Regards - Josef > http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger Hi Josef. I've read some of the articles located at your homepage and I have some questions/comments to make. In your tetrahedral co-ordinate system paper you state that: "...but in space with an unknown extension...the original three axis are no longer sufficient for orientation. We must double the system adding a mirror image of three of the axis to be able to describe the space on the other side of the corner. Normally we don't think of this action as a doubling of axis as we simply assign negative values on one side and positive on the other. But rigourosly we now have six axis. The fact that the plus and minus parts of each axis seem like one continous axis does not justify considering them to be one. ..." Linear alegra currently describes the dimensions of a given vector space as the minimum number of vectors needed to form a basis set. A basis set of vectors is defined as: 1) A set of vectors that are linearly independent 2) The set spans the given vector space V Any given basis set in R^3 contains three vectors. More will make the set linearly dependent, and less will not span R^3. What you have implied with the cartesian co-ordinate system is that 6 axis (vectors) are required to map the vector space R^3. However, this is not the case. Any set of 3 vectors in R^3 that are linearly independent WILL span R^3. Thus, any point in R^3 can be mapped as a position vector of the basis set. Rigourosly, the "6" cartesian axis you have drawn in R^3 is actually the standard three vector basis set and the negative scalar of the basis set drawn in--something that doesn't need to be done. I agree that your tetrahedral co-ordinate system will span R^3 when linear combinations of the basis set are +'ve real numbers only. However, why drop the negative real numbers? Also, lets say you want to solve a problem in R^4 or R^5, then what will you do? Also, your statements about applications of this co-ordinate system can be made just as easily with standard basis set in R^3. Where will your co-ordinate system work that can't be done with the regular basis set? "Space has only one 'dimension' which we may also can an extension. It extends equally into all directions. It does not matter how many directions we choose to refer to our systems of orientation. The term 3D or the term 4D has as little physical relevance as would the term nD. Dimensions are after all, only a conceptual tool of convience for expressing in mathematical terms a particular way of looking at or trying to comprehend the reality of what we call space." What we call the dimensionality DOES matter. By choosing definitions that work beautifully in algebra we define the dimension of a vector space as the number of vectors in a basis set. Yes, dimensionality is "only a conceptual tool", but it works nicely, so why drop the definition so something more vague can replace it? For most purposes physical reality can fit a 3-dimensional vector space (not including the temporal dimension). Calling physical reality 5-D or 6-D, etc certainly does matter, as under current definitions that statement is wrong. John Lotoski ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 96 13:38:03 MST From: "Mary C." To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements Message-ID: You can also find a good description with drawings in "The Flying Circus of Physics (with answers)". This is an over-size paperback which is still in print. Mary C. > >>> >>> Maxwell's Deamon, and if I remember correctly, it can be produced and it >>>does separate the hot from the cold molecules. Perhaps someone else >>>remembers a source for the construction plans. As I remember it is a >>>spiral tube, like a nautalis shell, with a vent at the end (center), the >>>hot gas goes in one direction and the cold gas goes in the other. >>> >>>George >>>gelston@gate.net >>> >> >>I too have some memory of this device. Seems it was very simple, a simple >>tube with a washer in the middle, but I appologize that my memory is very >>vague of it. Maybe someone can offer more. >> >>Byrun. >>> >>> >> >> > >I remember seeing the plans in the Scientific American project book >in 1977. I haven't seen that book since except in my highschool >Libr. An excellent book on how to make cloud chambers and Van de >Graf machines also. > >It was called the Hilsch Vortex Tube >Just as described above it was like a cyclotron shell made from >?machined metal halfs?; air entry through a tube tangent through >the center where directed outward by the spiral. > >scott@startech.win.net > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 17:57:16 -0600 From: Ronald Stiffler To: silverf@primenet.com CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Reality Fields.... Looking for insight. Message-ID: <32A36CDC.977@compassnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Borg Of The Celestial Dragon wrote: > > Ok, I've been kicking this around for some time now and think > I finally have it worked out enough to put down and discuss it. > > First off, to start everything, I am researching magic and the > scientific explanation of forces of energy people claim to be magic. > I believe that Quantum Physics and Zero Point Energy are beginning to > unlock the secrets of energy that people have been using for centuries > as what we call magic. Primative ZPE devices focusing willpower (ie. > wands, amulets, talismen, etc.) were common at one time. What I am > talking about here is reality fields. Fields of quantum reality that > float around everything reinforced constantly by the mass > conciousness. > > It started about a year ago. I had built my computer from > scratch from parts that I could barely afford. A lot of it is jury > rigged hard core. Anyway, after a lot of tinkering I finally got it to > run very well. I had no problems until I moved in with some > room-mates. After about a month of letting them access programs and > the internet... the computer started having problems... hardware > problems. It was wierd, The hard drive would fail, or the disk > drive... sometimes memory would go corrupt on bootup. Anyway, when I > spent time looking at it or even just sitting at the system the > problems would go away. I came to find that i could control wether or > not the system would fail... I think I was (and still am) keeping the > system running by the constant enforcing of the Quantum field > surrounding it. I believe that this is how all of our reality is held > together. > > It would also seem that these fields are linked with Zero > Point Energy. I wonder if concentrated effort would increase output > on a free-energy device? > > With practice I also believe that one could increase control > and strength of these fields. Maybe even engineer the quantum reality > field from scratch. > > I have had some other experiences of the like. I believe that > people alter reality subconsiously. For example, Avoiding situations > where people should have been killed in some sort of accident. > > I was just wondering if anyone else had experiences or > thoughts or even tips on controlling these fields. > > I realize that I am not very concise in my ramblings... that > is why I am asking for input and ideas to help focus it better for me. > > Borg Of The Celestial Dragon. > Accolyte, Warrior, Dragon. > "Ignorance is the greatest enemy of freedom." > "Enjoy Diversity, for without it everyone would be EXACTLY > like you and that would get boring fast." > > "Resistance is futile, you will be flamed." I feel from what I have read that your theory is flawed for the following reasons. 1) If you feel you are holding or creating the reality that you are keeping your computer system working, then one must assume that the reason it is failing is due to the others around your system that for some reason wish it to fail in their reality. 2) Who's reality controls the outcome. Is it based on the number favoring one or the other (majority wins) ? Or is it based on some other condition such as Right wins out ? 3) Is reality a matter of ones own view or a collective ? In otherwords is your system working properly for the affected others, but just not for you ? If one creates his/her own reality then we would all be happy or sad depending on our desire. I don't feel it possible that all collectives are creating reality rather than an individual. I agree tha a collective can change the out come of a set condition and one person can (if focused) but for the normal state of reality is is not determined on an individual basis. If this were true a dead person would feel very alive (if so inclined) while others would be certain that that person were dead. Not easy to understand. I think under these conditions I could go on living for eternity, but have no interaction with anyone else as their reality had br passed on to a higher plane. Maybe you should rethink your idea on how you (a sole person) can control your reality without factoring in everyone else in the universe. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 09:09:54 GMT From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements Message-ID: <32a59ace.10960503@mail.netspace.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:53:50 GMT, Josef Hasslberger wrote: [snip] >Angular momentum is over my head to make a statement; but possibly that is >why the vortex turns, because pre-existing angular momentum of the >molecules, once they are electrically aligned, will express itself in the >macroscopic vortical movement we observe in water? > I did consider this, but the problem I have is that as far as I can see, on average, for every molecule rotating clockwise, there will also be one rotating anti-clockwise. These will tend to cancel out. Actually, this may be the answer to the problem. The net angular momentum of all molecules was zero before, and is still zero afterward. IOW angular momentum simply isn't a problem at all, and I shouldn't have raised it. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:11:13 +0000 From: 9512675@UL.IE (T. SOLINAC) To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: The Universe Message-Id: <199612031210.EAA09954@mx1.eskimo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Could someone tell me, if you know off hand, of any underlying fundamental freqencies that exist and are know, relating to the earths magnetic field and or the Universe: 1.713 Hz comes to mind but I am not sure of the accuracy....long time ago since I read it and cannot seem to find it again. Bart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:52:01 -0500 (EST) From: John Alexander Lotoski To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > 2) I have thought about the "vortex", and come up with the following. > Water is a "lopsided" molecule. I.e. it has a heavy oxygen atom on one > side, and two light hydrogen atoms on the other side. It is also polar. > Consider now what happens when such mass of such molecules is placed in > a centrifuge. There should be a tendency for the molecules to align > themselves, such that the oxygen atom is on the "outside", while the > hydrogen is on the "inside" (due to centrifugal force). This alignment Somebody else said that, conversly, the hydrogens would be closer to the center than the oxygen (based on mass). However, why would there be a preference either way? Ie: F(v,r) = m * a(v,r) (Radial Force Inward Required For Circular Motion) a(v,r) = v^2 / r (Radial Acceleration) Since both the hydrogen and oxygen atoms in water are bound through sigma bonds, they will share a common velocity v. R may start out being different (because water is not linear). However, if we assume at the start of vortex the hydrogens are closer to the center, we will see that the radial acceleration is higher than for oxygen. The converse is also true--if oxygen is closer in to begin with, it's acceleration outward will increase. This process will occur until r is equal for both hydrogen and oxygen. This suggests that the molecules would be either pointing up or down with respect to the rotational axis. I am making any blatent mistakes here? :) If this is the case, it also brings up questions about the possibility of generating a field as suggested above. Since the only preference is to align up or down, there may not be a field set up. Although there will be dipole attractions (in this case, hydrogen bonding) for a molecule to flip and become aligned with another would require overcoming the up/down polarization force setup by centripetal acceleration. Comments? This is an interesting subject :) John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:14:13 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: FREENRG-L digest now available Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII If FREENRG-L chokes your mailbox with numerous small messages, now you can opt to have it choke your mailbox with one *larger* message! The "digest", a compilation of messages with MIME header, is sent every two days, or after 40K of mail is received, whichever comes first. Digests are sent via a separate listserver. To turn them on, subscribe to freenrg-digest, then unsubscribe from freenrg-L. To subscribe to freenrg-digest, send a blank message to: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com with the word "subscribe" in the subject line of the message header. Once you have started receiving digests, you can unsubscribe from the normal freenrg-L message traffic. To unsubscribe, send a blank message to: freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com with the word "subscribe" in the subject line of the message header. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:02:41 -0500 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Vacuum Fluctuations Message-ID: <961203150241_1520700412@emout18.mail.aol.com> Vacuum Fluctuations (I'm talking about electromagnetic energy, not gravitational vacuum fluctuations which are thought to exist) DO exist they have been measured. When a region is confined to a smaller and smaller space, the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle states that that region must get very chaotic and uncertain. At a small enough scale it becomes so chaotic that the region of space may actually "borrow" energy from another point in space. This only lasts for a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a second, because a negative energy point (One that had it's energy taken away) quickly absorbs the energy back. All this is a fact, and can be looked up in any physics book. Now as for actually seperating the positive and negative energy, I THINK it should be possible. But you are not getting work for nothing. There is still the negative energy that you have to put somewhere. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:04:14 +0000 From: 9512675@UL.IE (T. SOLINAC) To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: The Universe Message-Id: <199612032254.OAA28340@mail.eskimo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Could someone tell me, if you know off hand, of any underlying fundamental freqencies that exist and are know, relating to the earths magnetic field and or the Universe: 1.713 Hz comes to mind but I am not sure of the accuracy....long time ago since I read it and cannot seem to find it again. Bart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 17:21:36 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: nasapetition.html (fwd) Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND TO THE CONGRESS: [INLINE] In the wake of NASA's recent startling announcement regarding a "Martian Meteorite," millions of American citizens are fascinated with the issue of life on Mars, and we are especially interested in what appears to be the remains of an ancient city in the Cydonia region (the mile long "Face on Mars" being the most well known object). In the words of Richard Hoagland, head of one of the independent investigations of these structures, "If it can be confirmed that these objects are indeed artificial, then this would be one of the most exciting scientific discoveries of all time!" Carl Sagan has written, "These features merit closer attention with higher resolution. Much more detailed photos of the "Face" would surely settle issues of symmetry and help resolve the debate between geology and monumental sculpture....I hope that forthcoming American and Russian missions to Mars, specially orbiters with high resolution television cameras, will make a special effort - among hundreds of other scientific questions - to look much more closely at the pyramids and what some people call the "Face" and the "City". ("Science As a Candle in the Dark: The Demon Haunted World," Sagan, Carl, Random House: New York, 1995) NASA currently has two missions planned for Mars this year which will arrive in 1997 - Mars Global Surveyor and Mars Pathfinder. Yet out of 15,000 photographic targets to be viewed from orbit, NASA has given NO priority at all to the "Face" and other structures. This is appallingly irresponsible, and we taxpayers who have paid for these upcoming missions, urge you to demand of NASA that they: 1) take photos of the Cydonia region and give it top priority whenever the spacecraft-is overhead, 2) notify the public in advance whenever these opportunities will occur, 3) immediately release the raw data as it comes in without any delay, and 4) demand that the camera Principal Investigator waive his proprietary rights to the data for this particular area. NAME (please print), SIGNATURE, STREET ADDRESS, CITY, STATE, ZIP ______________________________________________________________________ ______ ______________________________________________________________________ ______ ______________________________________________________________________ ______ ______________________________________________________________________ ______ ______________________________________________________________________ ______ ______________________________________________________________________ ______ ______________________________________________________________________ ______ ______________________________________________________________________ ______ ______________________________________________________________________ ______ ______________________________________________________________________ ______ ______________________________________________________________________ ______ ______________________________________________________________________ ______ Please mail completed petitions to: Planetary Mysteries, 190 El Cerrito Plaza, Suite 168, El Cerrito, CA 94530 WebCounterTM [LINK] since September 13, 1996 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 17:19:46 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: test, ignore Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII working? ................................freenrg-L.................................... William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd Moderator: FREENRG-L VORTEX-L TAOSHUM-L WEBHEAD-L http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com voice:206-781-3320 -------------------------------- End of freenrg-l Digest V96 Issue #1 ************************************ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 5 08:27:56 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA10954; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 08:25:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 08:25:16 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:24:15 -0500 (EST) From: John Alexander Lotoski To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"MI_Bk3.0.Sg2.aTlfo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/683 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > I am making any blatent mistakes here? :) I just realized that my above post IS making a blatent mistake :). If no force is applied for circular motion, the orbit of the particle will exit tangential to the last particular point that it was still in orbit. I was applying newtons law incorrectly... There should be no up/down/inside/outside preference since the molecules are not connected to the centre of orbit. I'm curious as to what angular velocities the water must to rotated at in order to an electric field phenomena to show. How is a vortex made anyways? Also, why would it show? Possibly from dipoles interacting at John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 5 11:47:57 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA19975 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:47:23 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:47:23 -0800 X-Envelope-From: ekwall2@diac.com Thu Dec 5 11:43:34 1996 Received: from november.diac.com (root@diac.com [207.17.190.2]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA19303 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:43:27 -0800 Received: from november (ekwall2@[207.17.190.73]) by november.diac.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA23871 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:42:47 GMT Old-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:42:47 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: FREENRG-L digest now available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, Robert Pettus wrote: > > freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com > > > > with the word "subscribe" in the subject line of the message header. > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Shouldn't that be "UNsubscribe"? Duh, yes, move to the head of the class, but turn in your x-frmrs. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 5 13:33:25 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA05915; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:30:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:30:39 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 22:28:59 GMT Message-Id: <199612052228.WAA09337@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements Resent-Message-ID: <"VpkVl1.0.FS1.zxpfo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/684 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 03 Dec 1996 09:09:54 GMT rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) wrote: [snip] >>Angular momentum is over my head to make a statement; but possibly that is >>why the vortex turns, because pre-existing angular momentum of the >>molecules, once they are electrically aligned, will express itself in the >>macroscopic vortical movement we observe in water? >> >I did consider this, but the problem I have is that as far as I can see, on >average, for every molecule rotating clockwise, there will also be one >rotating anti-clockwise. These will tend to cancel out. What if molecular angular momentum is in a preferential direction with regard to the earth's rotation or it's magnetic field? It would have to be a mechanism of preferentiality that is diverse for northern and southern hemisphere. Vortices in water form preferentially one way on the northern hemisphere (I think clockwise seen from above) and the other way on the southern hemisphere of our beautiful planet. Regards - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 5 13:33:32 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA05933; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:30:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:30:42 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 22:28:42 GMT Message-Id: <199612052228.WAA09332@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Tetrahedral Co-ordinate System Resent-Message-ID: <"Wo5Jy3.0.WS1._xpfo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/685 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:24:51 -0500 (EST) John Alexander Lotoski wrote: >Hi Josef. I've read some of the articles located at your >homepage and I have some questions/comments to make. > >In your tetrahedral co-ordinate system paper you state that: > >"...but in space with an unknown extension...the original three >axis are no longer sufficient for orientation. We must double the system >adding a mirror image of three of the axis to be able to describe the >space on the other side of the corner. Normally we don't think of this >action as a doubling of axis as we simply assign negative values on one >side and positive on the other. But rigourosly we now have six axis. >The fact that the plus and minus parts of each axis seem like one >continous axis does not justify considering them to be one. ..." > >Linear alegra currently describes the dimensions of a given >vector space as the minimum number of vectors needed to form a basis >set. > >A basis set of vectors is defined as: >1) A set of vectors that are linearly independent >2) The set spans the given vector space V > >Any given basis set in R^3 contains three vectors. More will make >the set linearly dependent, and less will not span R^3. > >What you have implied with the cartesian co-ordinate system is >that 6 axis (vectors) are required to map the vector space R^3. However, >this is not the case. Any set of 3 vectors in R^3 that are linearly >independent WILL span R^3. Thus, any point in R^3 can be mapped as a >position vector of the basis set. > >Rigourosly, the "6" cartesian axis you have drawn in R^3 is >actually the standard three vector basis set and the negative scalar of >the basis set drawn in--something that doesn't need to be done. Hi John, thanks for taking the trouble of having read my paper and making comments/questions. On the matter of 6 axes required, I distinguish between a known space (such as a room, or any space that you can consider "from the outside" and apply the three cartesian co-ordinate axes to, and a space that you are in the middle of, i.e. you are not an outside observer, but someone in the space who maybe is not capable of seeing all the way 'to the edges' of that space. In the first case, you can apply your axes at one of the borders of the space you wish to define, and be quite confident that you can define anything that is 'within that space'. In the second case however, let's assume you are on a spaceship in the middle of the universe and have no way to know where the edges of the universe are, then with the cartesian system, you must state whether you are on the positive or on the negative leg of each one of the three axes, and that adds up to six possible vectors you have to consider. No matter whether you call two of the vectors X positive and X negative, they are not one vector, but two. They may be on one axis, but that does not matter. You must define in what direction you face. With tetrahedric co-ordinates, there is no negative scalar to be considered (unless you want to get into real negative space, which would take you outside of physical space into some other realm that is contguous at all points to physical space, but is not normally accessible) and you can determine position with reference to only four vectors (not six as needed in cartesian geometry). > >I agree that your tetrahedral co-ordinate system will span R^3 >when linear combinations of the basis set are +'ve real numbers only. >However, why drop the negative real numbers? Also, lets say you want to >solve a problem in R^4 or R^5, then what will you do? I drop the negative real numbers because orientation becomes comparatively more simple (less vectors to consider) although I recognize that there is a whole lot of work to be done to properly conceptionalize and to mathematicize that new way of looking at space. As for solving a problem in R^4, yes, there is work to be done to figure this all out. > >Also, your statements about applications of this co-ordinate >system can be made just as easily with standard basis set in R^3. Where >will your co-ordinate system work that can't be done with the regular >basis set? Actually there is nothing that drastic like can't be done with cartesian and can only be done with tetrahedric co-ordinates. But several things do get much easier, once the tetrahedric concept has been properly mathematicized. For one thing, orientation in space becomes much more intuitive if you have four vectors instead of 6. (See also the four color marking, which I propose, which makes directional orientation instantaneous). The four vectors are not in 90 degree co-ordination, but so what. 90 degrees is not a holy number, I say that 120 degrees would work just as well and sometimes better. Another application would be determination of exact position in a crystal lattice. Those crystal lattices do not follow the cartesian 90 degree logic. They are arranged in a 60 degree/120 degree co-ordinated form and consequently, when you want to get to a resolution of single molecule or single atom, you can very well throw out cartesian co-ordinates and try the tetrahedric ones and will find that the latter conform much better. This would be important for instance in storing data in a crystal, where you would want to get the maximum information density and would have to go down to molecular/atomic levels of resolution. Another possible application could be holograms, but I regretfully know too little about how they are made to say something with certainty. In any case, if you arrange four lasers of diverse color in the four tetrahedric vectors pointing inwards to a central space, you might get some interesting possibilities of creating images by interference of these four lasers with each other. Don't take me by my word on this however, I am far from an expert. > >"Space has only one 'dimension' which we may also can an >extension. It extends equally into all directions. It does not matter >how many directions we choose to refer to our systems of orientation. >The term 3D or the term 4D has as little physical relevance as would the >term nD. Dimensions are after all, only a conceptual tool of convience >for expressing in mathematical terms a particular way of looking at or >trying to comprehend the reality of what we call space." > >What we call the dimensionality DOES matter. By choosing >definitions that work beautifully in algebra we define the dimension of a >vector space as the number of vectors in a basis set. Yes, >dimensionality is "only a conceptual tool", but it works nicely, so why >drop the definition so something more vague can replace it? For most >purposes physical reality can fit a 3-dimensional vector space (not >including the temporal dimension). Calling physical reality 5-D or 6-D, etc >certainly does matter, as under current definitions that statement is wrong. > Our definitions might work beautifully in algebra, but they certainly do not closely depict physical reality. There is nothing in physical space that points toward a 'right angle' 90 degree co-ordinated system. Space is not a box, in other words. Probably it neither is a tetrahedron. Only that for some applications, a tetrahedric co-ordination might work better than the right angle cartesian one. That is really all I am saying, and in consequence of that, I have come to think that if we can geometricize space in two different ways, we could very well do so in more than two ways, but we never really touch the essence of what space really is. Any geometricization is a tool to help us orient ourselves in something that we do not fully comprehend. My point is only that we are improperly using the word three-dimensional as implying that space has any fixed number (and why three) of 'dimensions'. I know we arrive at this from geometric considerations of the point, the line and the flat surface, but these are not 'spaces' at all. They are merely figments of our imagination, geometrical concepts of convenience. No one has shown a point to have physical existence, just as no one has 'seen' two-dimensional space with other than the eyes of their imagination. But we really get into philosophical questions here, just because we put one of the most basic presuppositions of today's scientific thinking into doubt. Didn't really want to go that far. Thanks anyway for the stimulation. - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 5 13:33:43 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA06044; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:31:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:31:33 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 22:28:49 GMT Message-Id: <199612052228.WAA09334@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Reality Fields.... Looking for insight. Resent-Message-ID: <"0fe26.0.JU1.oypfo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/686 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >To:silverf@primenet.com >From:j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) >Subject:Re: Reality Fields.... Looking for insight. > >Borg wrote: > > >>I had no problems until I moved in with some >>room-mates. After about a month of letting them access programs and >>the internet... the computer started having problems... hardware >>problems. It was wierd, The hard drive would fail, or the disk >>drive... sometimes memory would go corrupt on bootup. Anyway, when I >>spent time looking at it or even just sitting at the system the >>problems would go away. I came to find that i could control wether or >>not the system would fail... I think I was (and still am) keeping the >>system running by the constant enforcing of the Quantum field >>surrounding it. I believe that this is how all of our reality is held >>together. > >Sounds very familiar. I have a similar ability, and I tend to say to people >around me that machines (computers and other equipment) have their own >consciousness and they must be treated well. If you start cursing at them, >talk in front of them about selling them, or some other such 'unfriendly' act, >they will start failing on you, cars start leaving you stranded on the street, >etc. > >> >>It would also seem that these fields are linked with Zero >>Point Energy. I wonder if concentrated effort would increase output >>on a free-energy device? > >yes, that may be one of the main reasons why we have trouble getting free >energy off the ground. There are simply too few people around yet who can put >up the reality field needed for those things to function. Nothing in the >physical universe can function unless there are, in the physical universe, >ample explanations for its functioning: = reality field. >> >>With practice I also believe that one could increase control >>and strength of these fields. Maybe even engineer the quantum reality >>field from scratch. >> >I believe there are some people in California who do exactly that. They are >experimenting and I believe have good first results, putting into existence >realities by conscious action. > >>I have had some other experiences of the like. I believe that >>people alter reality subconsiously. For example, Avoiding situations >>where people should have been killed in some sort of accident. >> >Confirmed as well. Some people seem to have the ability to do this. It seems >that there are what I would call "probable futures" that at any given moment >branch out from the moment of "now", and that it depends very much on the >players (the persons living that moment of "now"), which one of these probable >or possible futures will actually become reality and then history. > >>I was just wondering if anyone else had experiences or >>thoughts or even tips on controlling these fields. > >It seems that 'high toned' people (cheerful, positive outlook) have a much >better chance than others to control, not to talk about bringing about from >scratch, such reality fields, that will then result in actual physical world >occurrences. > >Regards - Josef > >> >>I realize that I am not very concise in my ramblings... that >>is why I am asking for input and ideas to help focus it better for me. >> >> >>Borg Of The Celestial Dragon. >>Accolyte, Warrior, Dragon. >>"Ignorance is the greatest enemy of freedom." >>"Enjoy Diversity, for without it everyone would be EXACTLY >>like you and that would get boring fast." >> >>"Resistance is futile, you will be flamed." > Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 5 14:26:35 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA16636; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:20:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:20:58 -0800 Date: 05 Dec 96 17:09:22 EST From: "Glenn F. Hinton" <103510.1772@CompuServe.COM> To: list owner Cc: Bob Dorman Subject: LIAG GENERATOR Message-ID: <961205220921_103510.1772_IHL29-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"2xJ1K.0.g34.6hqfo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/687 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Bob Dorman, I read with great interest your posting about your LIAG generator. As you will probably guess by the questions I am going to ask, my forte is not electronics. In years past I was a job shop machinist. Based upon your post and the intrigueing (< From: "Sam Gordon" To: Subject: Would like info about biofeedback control Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 20:31:21 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"snDpJ.0.0B5.AWtfo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/688 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I had a strange idea, I have a little backround in electronics and conputer programing. My idea is this 1. I would like to build a hand shaped form that a person could lay his or her hand in, located in the form would be several electical pick-up points starting just after the wrist and ending at the finger tips. 2. Here is one thing that I don't know can be done or not. I would like each electrical pick-up to be wired thru a signal amplifier then into an interface to a computer. 3. Now I was thinking that a person could design a program that could represent graphically all the electrical points on screen. Then for each point, draw lines from the origin to every other point that a potential exists. the line length representing the signal strength. My how idea is to come up with an alternat way to inter data into computers, I thought that if one could build the above device, You could think about a letter or word while also thinking about your hand, thus changing potentials between the test points. After doing some test and recording the graphic results, you could overlay the pictures and removing all line lengths that remain the same during each thought test. keeping the differences recorded for further testing. sorry I'm being vague, truth be known I couldn't build this thing it's way beyond me, but I would like to hear some input. thanks. lance@bluegrass.net From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 5 19:37:46 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA14738 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:30:33 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:30:33 -0800 X-Envelope-From: ryb1989@dsuper.net Thu Dec 5 19:29:52 1996 Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA14594 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:29:38 -0800 Received: from oracle.dsuper.net ([198.168.78.63]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA17989 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 18:56:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from asc-addr-55.dsuper.net by oracle.dsuper.net; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/08Jul96-0617PM) id AA29460; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 21:57:45 -0500 Message-Id: <32A78B94.70@dsuper.net> Old-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 21:57:24 -0500 From: ryb Reply-To: ryb1989@dsuper.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Subject: subscribe X-Diagnostic: Already on the subscriber list X-Diagnostic: 4 ryb1989@dsuper.net 32746 ryb1989@dsuper.net X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: O X-Status: From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 5 19:43:14 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA15266; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:32:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:32:31 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:14:05 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: ElectroGravity : ELG02 an Electro-dynamic device (PART 1) (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="PART.BOUNDARY.0.15677.emout04.mail.aol.com.849770181" Content-ID: Resent-Message-ID: <"viuNk3.0.vj3.EFvfo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/689 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --PART.BOUNDARY.0.15677.emout04.mail.aol.com.849770181 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: <0_15677_849770181@emout04.mail.aol.com.296161> Note: 150K message rejected by freenrg-L, GIFs stripped ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:44:11 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: ElectroGravity : ELG02 an Electro-dynamic device (PART 1) ElectroGravity : ELG02 an Electro-dynamic device (PART 1) ------------------------------------------------ by Jean-Louis Naudin - Email : JNaudin509@aol.com or 100721.3620@compuserve.com ELG02 - Description This is a description of a method to construct and experiment an "Electro-dynamic" device called ELG02xp. The ELG02 device use the directionalized Grad E like "Biefield/Brown Effect" to produce an acceleration field and this field surimposed on gravitational field reduce the mesured mass of this device. This experimental device show how Grad E field generate thrust and up to 6% weight lost. ELG02 - Construction Parts needed : - An electrostatic generator like a Wimshurt machine or at least a 70Kv DC generator. - an Aluminium sheet ( 18 microns thick / alu roller for cooking ) - a small plastic ball ( 3.8 cm diameter (ping-pong like) ) - 15 cm wood staff ( 3 mm diameter ) - a small sheet of polystyrene ( 6 mm thick like depron) --> Attached after this doc, in Mime 1.0, base64 encoded : sheme and picture (color GIF) of the ELG02 device. Construction steps : 1) cut a ring 14 cm (outer diameter ) and 10 cm (inner diameter) in 6 mm polystyren sheet, 2) cut the 15 cm wood staff in three pieces of 45 mm lengh 3) Wrap up the 3.8 cm ball with aluminium sheet 4) Wrap up the 14 cm polystyrene ring with aluminium sheet 5) Make a cupola form with aluminium sheet on 20 cm sphere ( like a hand ball ) and cut it to have a 169 mm diameter cupola. 6) Glue the ring center on the cupola top 7) Glue the 3 wood parts on sphere to build a tripod support between the aluminium sphere and ring;(see figures 1 and attached document ELG02XP.GIF ) * * * * * * <- sphere(aluminium)(POSITIVE >50Kv DC) * * * * / * | * \ / | \ <- tripod support (wood) /*****|*****\ XXXX**: : : : : :**XXXX <- ring (aluminium) *** *** *** *** <- cupola (aluminium)(NEGATIVE) *** *** *** *** ******************************************** Figure 1 Note : The space between the positive sphere must be at least 15 mm. (breakdown voltage for dry air is 4.7 Kv/mm) Put the ELG02 device on a precision balance, the ELG02 device MUST BE ELETRICALY ISOLATED FROM THE BALANCE. Connect the sphere to POSITIVE and cupola to NEGATIVE pole of electrostatic generator. CAUTION !!! USE EXTREME CAUTION, ALWAYS DISCHARGE AND DISCONNECT THIS DEVICE BEFORE TOUCH IT. ELG02 - MEASURES and TESTS (to be continued) I use a 250 Kv Wimshurt machine to make tests, and i limit voltage just under the breakdown between sphere and cupola. For 70 Kv, I measure 5.7% weight lost of ELG02. Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin Email : 100721.3620@compuserve.com or JNaudin509@aol.com --PART.BOUNDARY.0.15677.emout04.mail.aol.com.849770181-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 6 00:49:08 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA06087; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 00:47:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 00:47:55 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 23:48:32 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: THE ATOMIC EXPANSION HYPOTHESIS Resent-Message-ID: <"3pycY3.0.vU1.uszfo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/691 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: THE ATOMIC EXPANSION HYPOTHESIS STATEMENT OF HYPOTHESIS AND BACKGROUND ASSUMPTIONS The Atomic Expansion Hypothesis (AEH) is the idea that atomic expansion (AE), the increase in the size of an ionized atom or molecule, like H+, which occurs when they take on an orbital electron, can perform work on the surroundings of the ion, and that the amount of energy released can be greater than the initial ionization energy, provided the ion is in a sufficiently confined space when the expansion occurs. This is an idea that I think leads to various possible experiments and, if correct, may provide a basis for the design of over unity devices. If correct, the idea also explains various previously observed results. This hypothesis is another expression of the idea that the excess heat from cold fusion devices does not come from fusion, or transmutation, but from extraction of energy from the zero point energy (ZPE) sea. This is not to say that transmutation or conventional fusion does not occur in cold fusion experiments, only that the heat producing source of cold fusion (CF) devices is primarily ZPE. It is an assumption of this hypothesis that ZPE energy is what keeps atoms from collapsing and is part of the glue that holds atoms together without radiation. Atoms, more particularly orbitals, though quantized in energy, can be deformed, both in shape and electron probability distribution. These deformations can occur as a result of external stress on the orbitals due to collisions or pressure, or because of electromagnetic fields. The deformations are capable of storing energy, converting kinetic energy into potential energy, and back. With the exception of the occasional resulting photon emissions, such collisions are perfectly elastic, which is why the gas laws and thermodynamics work so well. It is true that collision and pressure deformations of orbitals are also electromagnetic in origin, but differ in that the fields are highly localized and mostly cancel at a distance, and in the fact that the field distortions convert kinetic energy into potential energy at a high energy density. THE PROPOSED MECHANISM FOR PRODUCING HEAT IN A METAL LATTICE 1) An ion, e.g. H+ or He++, is injected into a metal lattice. This can be accomplished via high energy ion acceleration or via electrolysis. 2) As the ion comes to a halt in the lattice, any kinetic energy initially imparted to the ion is given up to the lattice. 3) The ion takes up an electron from an adjacent atom or conduction band. If from an adjacent atom, that atom may momentarily shrink (or lose a bond and expand), but will quickly return to size by obtaining an electron from a conduction band. The net result is an electron from the locality is taken up by the ion. 4) An orbital is formed about the ion, increasing the size of the ion. 5) As the electron occupies the orbital, quantized EM energy (e.g. a photon), equivalent to the original ionization energy, is released - heating the local environment. 6) As the small ion and acquired electron(s) expands from nuclear dimensions to atomic dimensions, at some point force is applied in all directions to the lattice provided the interstitial sites do not accommodate the size of the de-ionized product. Further expansion of the de-ionized product to it's final size results in work being performed on the lattice. The energy thus produced has no antecedent. It is derived solely from the force that keeps atoms from collapsing. However, unlike a collision, no initial compressive kinetic energy was supplied. The energy is supplied from the ZPE sea. ENERGY DERIVED FROM ATOMIC EXPANSION IN LIQUID OR GAS PHASES Energy might be similarly obtained in a gas or liquid phase, though not with the efficiency of a metal lattice. A conducting liquid, like mercury, would behave similarly to the metal lattice, but the force resisting the AE would be almost entirely inertial, thus much smaller than the resisting force of a molecular bond. The force resisting the AE would still be exerted over a slightly sub-atomic distance, so the excess energy produced per atomic expansion would almost entirely be proportional to the AE resisting force. Similar arguments can be made for the collision of an ion with a non-ion in a gas. The main difference here is the lack of an electron source to bring the net charge to zero, and thus the cost of extracting the electron from the neutral atom to fill the ion's orbital. A negative balance in ionization potentials (e.g. H+ hits He) must be overcome using the kinetic energy of the collision. Similar arguments can also be made for gas/metal interfaces where low energy ions strike metal electrodes, but do not penetrate. Here again, the AE is only inertially confined, and results in the ion product being accelerated upon its rebound from the plate. EXAMPLE OF POSSIBLE MECHANISM FOR PRODUCING HEAT IN A GAS 1) Hydrogen is ionized to create H+ in a mixture of H2 and Rn (radon gas). This might be accomplished in an arc, a point or wire discharge, or via RF, x-ray, or other indirect excitement. 2) The H+ ion comes into contact with a Rn atom, stripping an electron from the Rn atom producing a H atom and Rn+ ion. In the event one of the other noble gasses is used in place of Rn, some of the H+ kinetic energy is required to strip the electron, and the post collision Rn may still ultimately retain the electron even though a momentary H orbital forms during the collision. 3) An orbital is formed about the H+ ion, suddenly increasing the size of the ion. The expansion, fueled bye ZPE, imparts "free" energy to the atoms in the form of potential, then kinetic, energy as the collision progresses. 4) As the electron occupies the H orbital, quantized EM energy (e.g. one or more photons), equivalent to the original ionization energy less the Rn ionizing energy, is released - heating the local environment. 5) The initial momentums and energies of the H and Rn nuclei gets applied to the shells, distorting them, and are returned to the environment via the normal elastic collision mechanism. 6) Eventually the Rn+ is reconstituted to Rn and a photon is released, gaining back the complete energy of ionization of the H atom initially. The net energy gained is the energy of expansion (AE energy) of the H+ orbital in close proximity to the Rn+ ion - thus imparting additional kinetic energy to both. WHAT DOES THE AEH EXPLAIN? The AEH provides a possible explanation for the varied effectiveness of the alpha, beta, and gamma phases of CF loading. I suggest that in the initial loading phase the adsorbed hydrogen is alternately in H and H+ form, but primarily in H+ form. It is primarily ionically bound to the lattice, especially when in motion. An H atom fits inside a lattice cell, but not through the triangular portals between cells. In the beta phase, many of the cells are occupied by H atoms, and in such a state diffusion between cells requires displacement of some H atoms, the diffusion paths tend to be blocked, and the continued diffusion requires the ionization of a path blocking H or its tunneling out of the way. Some degree of H confinement upon the reconversion from an H+ to H would be occurring, thus some small AE excess energy might be produced in beta phase. In the gamma phase H loading would be to the point that additional loading would force the formation of H2 molecules in the interstitial sites. In looking at the geometry of the Ni lattice and H2 molecules it appears such a formation is possible with only a deformation of the lattice of about 5 to 10 percent. This would imply extreme confinement and local pressure, which would dramatically increase the work done by ZPE in supporting the H2 formation, or "expansion". The small volume expansion requirement is due to the low per atom volume of H2 vs. H. Some numbers regarding H2 molecules and the face centered cubic geometry of the Ni lattice: H atomic radius: .79 =C5 H covalent radius .32 =C5 H2 bond length .7414 =C5 Ni atomic radius 1.62 =C5 Ni covalent radius 1.15 =C5 Ni bond length 2.4916 =C5 =46rom this I calculate the face hole will pass a sphere of radius 0.2885 = =C5 and the tetrahedral space will accommodate a sphere of radius 0.6118 =C5. However, an H2 molecule can be placed across one axis of the tetrahedron with each atom partway through a face hole. In fact, the H2 atom could pass through the face holes with only an expansion of the bond length of 2*(.3200 -.2885) =3D .063 =C5. This is an increase in bond length of about = 2.5 percent. Less expansion is sufficient to fit the H2 into the tetrahedron. The AEH model may explain why various discharge tubes, especially those containing H2 or He appear to produce excess energy. The ions are injected into the metal lattice where they are confined prior to atomic expansion. A repetitive ion oscillation may produce a kind of synchronized shock wave in the metal surface causing it to rebound and add energy to the impinging and reflecting particles at the surface. The source of the AE energy may be primarily in the electrodes, especially cathodes, but to some degree may occur in the gas as well, or at the electrode surface due to AE surface effect expansion. The AEH may explain the mechanism by which cavitation devices produce excess heat - namely that some of the H2O is ionized in the cavitation bubbles and the collapsing bubble results in the ions being injected into the the high pressure water wall where the ions reconstitute and expand, undergo AE, adding pressure, thus kinetic energy to the collapsing pressure wall. The AEH may explain the over unity performance of an arc in producing water gas in that collision of H+ with C, or CO or CO2 could potentially create AE energy. Here are some ionization potentials of interest: H 13.598 C 11.260 CO 14.014 CO2 13.773 Note that no kinetic energy is required to trigger the AE reaction between H+ and C and that little is required for CO or CO2. Note that the AE reaction might possibly push the chemical equilibrium in the arc toward the production of CO by supplying the excess energy required to split the second O from the CO2. Two things are bothersome about this concept though. One is that if the AE effect exists it should have been observed in chemistry long ago. Another is that, unlike the case where H+ and a noble gas is used, a bond can form between the H and the reactant, so the kinetic energy would end up in molecular vibration, or in reducing the probability of such a bond The main difficulty, though, is that the shared orbital, the bond, creates an attractive force instead of a repulsive force. AE excess energy is based upon repulsion, not attraction. Perhaps one difficulty answers the other. In any event, He++ would make a more logical AE generator than H+ in this application. SO WHAT ABOUT DESIGN CRITERIA? This model results in some concrete design suggestions: 1) Produce ions (especially H+ or H++) in as large a quantity and as efficiently as possible. 2) Accelerate or transport the ions into a confining and preferably conducting medium where they are deionized under pressure. 3) Utilize the increased pressure and heat in the confining medium. 4) Make the confining medium as gas recycling as possible, preferably extracting energy from the higher pressure and temperature post-AE gas before repeating the cycle. SOME APPLICATION AND EXPERIMENTATION THOUGHTS 1) Mercury, though not as confining as a lattice, may make a good medium for ion injection as it would expel the gasses quickly. Mercury also conducts electricity well. Other metals could be used at higher temperatures, however, electron emission from hot cathodes would not be good as it would increase the power demand. The increased power would have to be utilized to result in more ionizations. The simplest possible test device may be a small sealed glass tube of H2 with a point anode at the top and mercury cathode at the bottom, activated with high frequency high voltage pulsed DC current. An improvement might be to use two anode electrodes, isolated from the cathode, with a lower voltage discharge between the anodes to do the ionization. 2) Hot anodes are fine as they will increase ionization and kinetic energy of the gas. An arc created by an isolation transformer may make a very good anode. 3) It may be possible to use water as a cathode. The atomic expansion may assist in boiling the water at the surface. The water could provide it's own H2 from the evolved steam which migrates to an arc anode. Might be good to use a helium atmosphere to get safe recombination. An electrolyte would, of course, increase the cathode conductivity. 4) Electrolysis (or arcs) under water may produce usable energy if done under extreme pressure. Simply use the evolved high pressure gas to move pistons. Additional process stages could be added for recombination and heat recovery. Some of the energy of compression, by the AEH model, would come from the ZPE sea. 5) As suggested earlier, a closed tube with an electrically excited mixture of H2 and a noble gas, especially radon, may produce some over unity results. 6) The process of producing water gas, i.e. burning carbon in an arc under water to produce CO and H2, may be improved by avoiding the use carbon rods altogether. This might be done by recycling the CO2 and H2O (as steam) into an arc and driving its equilibrium to a mixture of H2O, CO2, CO, and H2 in the arc. The AE energy would assist in driving the reaction in reverse in the arc and would be the energy derived from the recycling process. This process might be assisted by adding He to the atmosphere as the He has a much higher ionization potential (24.587 volts) than CO or CO2, and will not bond with it. Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 6 01:50:09 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA22019; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 20:07:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 20:07:33 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 23:01:10 -0500 (EST) From: John Alexander Lotoski To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tetrahedral Co-ordinate System In-Reply-To: <199612052228.WAA09332@korovev.stm.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"zOAZ22.0.iN5.0mvfo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/690 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Hi John, > thanks for taking the trouble of having read my paper and making > comments/questions. > No problem, i find your papers quite interesting. > On the matter of 6 axes required, I distinguish between a known space (such > as a room, or any space that you can consider "from the outside" and apply > the three cartesian co-ordinate axes to, and a space that you are in the > middle of, i.e. you are not an outside observer, but someone in the space > who maybe is not capable of seeing all the way 'to the edges' of that > space. > > In the first case, you can apply your axes at one of the borders of the > space you wish to define, and be quite confident that you can define > anything that is 'within that space'. > > In the second case however, let's assume you are on a spaceship in the > middle of the universe and have no way to know where the edges of the > universe are, then with the cartesian system, you must state whether you > are on the positive or on the negative leg of each one of the three axes, > and that adds up to six possible vectors you have to consider. No matter > whether you call two of the vectors X positive and X negative, they are not > one vector, but two. They may be on one axis, but that does not matter. You > must define in what direction you face. > The discrepency i am trying to point out lies in definitions. I see your point. Although you have defined a negative axis to count as a separate "vector", the current definition i have learned is that any vector that can be expressed as a linear combination of a basis set for a vector space does not need to be included to span that space. In other words, the three standard vectors of cartesian 3-space are i,j,k (all unit vectors). The negative axis are simply -i, -j, -k. Thus linear algebra defines that as the basis set and since there are only three vectors in this set, this vector space spanned by i, j, k is termed "3 dimensional." > I drop the negative real numbers because orientation becomes comparatively > more simple (less vectors to consider) although I recognize that there is a More vectors, but only real positive numbers to consider :). > For one thing, orientation in space becomes much more intuitive if you have > four vectors instead of 6. (See also the four color marking, which I > propose, which makes directional orientation instantaneous). The four The coloring idea is neat. > vectors are not in 90 degree co-ordination, but so what. 90 degrees is not > a holy number, I say that 120 degrees would work just as well and sometimes > better. I agree totally. It all depends on what you want, and how you want to apply the co-ordinate system. A set of 10 vectors could be used pointing in any which direction, and as long as R^3 is spanned, then every point can be mapped, however not neccessarily ambiguosly :). > Another application would be determination of exact position in a crystal > lattice. Those crystal lattices do not follow the cartesian 90 degree > logic. They are arranged in a 60 degree/120 degree co-ordinated form and > consequently, when you want to get to a resolution of single molecule or > single atom, you can very well throw out cartesian co-ordinates and try the > tetrahedric ones and will find that the latter conform much better. This As long as R^3 is spanned by the basis set, any point can be mapped, and thus it will be no problem for mapping crystals points for say x-ray crystallography. You may not get integral values for crystal locations, something which the tetrahedron system may do, but in a different type of packing scheme the tetrahedron system may give results just as messy. Keep in mind, there are also cubic lattices were the cartesian works just as well. > >What we call the dimensionality DOES matter. By choosing > >definitions that work beautifully in algebra we define the dimension of a > >vector space as the number of vectors in a basis set. Yes, > >dimensionality is "only a conceptual tool", but it works nicely, so why > >drop the definition so something more vague can replace it? For most > >purposes physical reality can fit a 3-dimensional vector space (not > >including the temporal dimension). Calling physical reality 5-D or 6-D, etc > >certainly does matter, as under current definitions that statement is wrong. > > > > Our definitions might work beautifully in algebra, but they certainly do > not closely depict physical reality. There is nothing in physical space > that points toward a 'right angle' 90 degree co-ordinated system. Space is > not a box, in other words. Probably it neither is a tetrahedron. Only that > for some applications, a tetrahedric co-ordination might work better than > the right angle cartesian one. That is really all I am saying, and in > consequence of that, I have come to think that if we can geometricize space > in two different ways, we could very well do so in more than two ways, but > we never really touch the essence of what space really is. Any > geometricization is a tool to help us orient ourselves in something that we > do not fully comprehend. When a co-ordinate system is applied to a given vector space it is never implied that that space itself somehow conforms to the geometry of the basis set. > My point is only that we are improperly using the word three-dimensional as > implying that space has any fixed number (and why three) of 'dimensions'.> > I know we arrive at this from geometric considerations of the point, the > line and the flat surface, but these are not 'spaces' at all. They are Actually they come from the fact that it takes 1 vector to span a line, 2 vectors to span a plane, and 3 vectors to span R^3 (all vectors are assumed to be picked linearly independent). Just because we cannot see different vector spaces do not mean they do not exist or cannot be useful.. Ie. many problems are actually mapped to different dimensionalities because the problems are solved easier in that vector space than a 3 dimensional vector space. Take symmetry and group theory applied to chemistry for example. The symmetry properties of molecules can predict a number of useful things like the number of CO infrared stretching bands that will be found in various isomers allowing the actual isomer synthesized in the lab to be elucidated based on the infrared spectrum. However to do this, even for a molecule only with tetrahedral symmetry, the problem must be mapped into a 5 dimensional system--10 for the octahedron. > But we really get into philosophical questions here, just because we put > one of the most basic presuppositions of today's scientific thinking into > doubt. Didn't really want to go that far. Actually, my point is that your idea of picking different geometrial co-ordinate systems is not new. Linear algebra has done this and generalized it for any dimensional system. It is flexible enough that it allows tayloring to suit a persons calculational needs. See: Anton, Howard, Elementary Linear Algebra, 7th ed., John Wiley & Sons, Toronto (1994). Interesting book... > Thanks anyway for the stimulation. no prob. :) John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 6 02:26:54 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA20879; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 02:26:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 02:26:01 -0800 Date: 06 Dec 96 04:31:18 EST From: Rick Monteverde <76216.2421@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: ElectroGravity : ELG02 an Electro-dynamic devic Message-ID: <961206093118_76216.2421_HHB21-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"KxYYf.0.165.sI_fo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/692 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jean-Louis - Nice job on the electrogravitic device! A few questions and comments: Such a HV device can generate substantial ionic wind. How did you ensure that such effects are not responsible for the weight loss you observed? Also, if there is an artificially created g-field or a modification of the existing gravity around the device, such changes should be measureable on objects near the device as well - and since gravity is unshieldable, this would allow for very generous and convincing shielding against electrostatic induced charge, leakage charge, ionic wind, and all the skeptical notions of doubt that come with them. Such g changes should also effect liquid as well as solids. How about setting a container of water like a partially filled aquarium over the electrically shielded device? The lid on top would cut down on air currents and give you a large flat water surface to observe. Any few percent changes should easily create a visible dimple or bulge on the still water. You could even place some screen or graph paper above the water so that the grid from it is visible in the reflection on the water's surface. Even a very slight bulge or dip would be rendered easily visible by the obvious distortion in the grid by the water surface. Even finer sightings of surface changes might be made by shining a bright light through a small hole (or use a laser source like one of those pointers from Radio Shack or catalogues) at the water surface from an angle and reflecting the spot to a wall a few meters distant. Very tiny changes on the water surface will be magnified greatly and make the spot move. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 6 03:13:33 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA25286; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 03:12:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 03:12:23 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 06:10:58 -0500 Message-ID: <961206061057_1952673404@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: JNaudin509@aol.com Subject: ElectroGravity : ELG02 an Electro-dynamic device (Sheme) Resent-Message-ID: <"v2msJ2.0.sA6.L-_fo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/694 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ElectroGravity : ELG02 an Electro-dynamic device (PART 2) Dear all You have attched a GIF sheme of ELG02 device in UUENCODED file. Speak to you soon, Jean-Louis Naudin - Email : JNaudin509@aol.com begin 644 ELG02PL.GIF M1TE&.#EA"P-X`H```````/___RP`````"P-X`@`"^XR/JF'ITZ9; MN[+4FI4JUK%D-8#-B.DLSZ]0JR:@*K6LW+D+U/:\B]8EMHUQ(<`=2C:MR[7"W[Z"&U\EG!BMJYU!(T]=[#@S6TKF@\4[X9`^C3JUZM6L M6S/6O(8S7KV=NSIUFUJ.6YR[8;]:':>W3>&^4P$W+9AX\5&MD0=6OOS61C[0 M)U:/'FOZGNL1N6-?I5V/=X3COZ,*GZ?\/_7F1:''4W7=6H+OB99^_'N_$?OV MH.K;B5_.?*-=$P%,^/DW"W_-($@'@-X(V(!\]AD(VFN&[*<@*Z*E5R!@%K)U M($25\5):?HE@F&$F#,[AH%\>#B2B9Z')2"*->6WX!HHI4K*B;AT:]:&)EQT( MX8@U^M22CSL6TV-P/[I8TX<#[A6C8;/UE*1S2P+3I)83?G8E8M=)]5I0W%"I`)C\FSAEFGK&MR26.=S@(YU!F(EBG/$)B:V#M.%)CK77EFBDLV%TRNV%WK((;I+24KHKB.-J ME^M:AS[;KBSJJL%N$U*&VF]V[ZH):[U[%OS;P\[[>XNH;Q2KEM M.[%Q#GLI9L8BP[0QP1U[7#&\%X_,,J)_@7QR*/^F$?$Y-<H@S72$R34-]5M/1TVUTME83?5S4V?=-&YV2@WVK1S9 M2C91)92WFZ'=>*04UZS\$9]%NH8-TMALVZV2W'KG/=K9GB2Z-@E8NXW&X$\` M27=:>/NS36+8C=N]5]^">\+WWALL:CCAG,+ME^-W?\ZW08]7?K=P5HI=F].U M@C[ZH8HO7N+B=TW&N,)U:5Y)Y@)WCC?MEO_>^^^T#]PZ[#$!#[KGK.O]U.VD MCQZZ\76'#KU(N`^-..26J^W\YY$?G[SSWT?>?/=T1[^W[V9[G[SZE8^_O$/7 M^YR]W.63+GOZCKN//YWMZ_JZ\`D0?^Y[7/VJAY?[P>]Y9ID?SNHW/?V9;WL` M1!_R((>OT#!P@L*+W_L84[XCE2YXVML@!G3GP)M`T&5`(8?_\E="X(70A6,+ M80LG6$#D<<]^_S/A`N^7E12>;(6`&^#WI,>\\VUP@?L\O&`^F/@^#A+0@B.4 M8!)-&$0A3BQN`N0?$F5(P2Z2,(H9P2(,V><]`\(P4054WT_*2,4Q:7&+]'GB M`#_X$4-I2G3YNE4`^U>ALLTN?2#L'D9$>"KT`=%Z<$OT8R60YP9S78ERF"-H9-L8AJY;CFLKX5,4,1$03-[\:`H+!07/01^62QWLD`H-545%^W%1 MAK"Q"`NE*"\?N+,(2>Y,"KPB*40ST,+-U2&Y"2JE=0'XR*:U/4I M-88JS2JD/KE+E[0`:)YQ0E$#:*76H;5VX9OA%2_".J?H4*YL-:H^G[JY,TJ5 M2QIO]L\YPX/CC9\KO)Z>UVA5E>]Z<4N:Q4Z*YL>[TCT_2Z6Q(8MG@Q4A("] M4E"L2-#U'BZ[LWSO#H![603[0,&-=.TP"2Q1]XKU4P+>77L+?%0>,/A>C]BP M$)E[!A`OV*05+JZ!\8$#!\/7I25^[84%D@,1:YC$+5YQABT;XQ/7P,.:X#'N M9"P#2@(YQ32N<81?K`(AZW@&/LZ=D8PREG*%%$SC.^,YS+K>6&#%C-=`GVU8RYANJ-L=&4?_5,)]SD$DD;JHK=I MZ347B#;XG4Y^UBG;^QX+@-\$EC$G^VEQ&GK3<:8UH5U$0>;F4*1;]6S>@%C6 M"V6:NC>;J*S]/&N_]0UZN%7I>"6W7072,)2";FVLCQW75!,6L4S%I:R5/.KE M+3*?-_:BU*0]2#R2K3,19+<5U>+NY[DSK>!KM>J,V>F5AEI^IN6N8OF'W)3: MNM9:#:_LR-WG__:EV6[TIGUG5+K32I>V:U6L!`U(V'U/>YX2[AE)R6?(=W=0 MX.!&JL'[PSC4['67J\]^:[_)N-B+OSRV8XQNS#7>TX[QN,[=L-:Y1?[OD8^` MYUHV>0WIV5;>`7NKZ/YXT&&N5OH>=UQ112_.J3K$CCL:AZN&^M&G9>]P#WSK M!?^ZQ76H])K/4+PSE_G3NKO]YHZEN]7';7.)]QV>7=.6$HC>@53Y4^(,A+RRKP[JK*+KC1P> MN4[;@GKF649`_WTNL8PU&UVOG/6SSSNV$[UGH6VWOYQWK>TSGVQ.=T%T=0\K M[F\]=A``Z3:@G6(%G1E\Y7MAH\6'ZK"37VC0?=W M?(6 M?WN5@2'X92-H655%@-*'06:G8KF7 M@\6!<#R(@R88<4`(80@(@T,8"9HW:>QW?JH'A+[D@T?HA"4!A98A)XU M95V8A?ZPA48X@V#S1M63.2HXACJX<6:H4,SF;SW(;UC8AA*Q@TC`AEVV*NWC M@E/8A'=H%7MX:68EAH+[>#V$6'2&2(>(.`](PHAVJ'<6)HF.B%&)=U&*"!^' M:(GHX'E*H(FDN!X'1XET)AHZH7ZB5HFJ^`XMEU&IB(`3 M9H.AJ!B<2(OC`(F12&=[%X1"^(L;Z(O?AW509(I,>(S(R(M#0G6F)W31^'+/ M:(`+Z'YRV$,9ISR7-HK8B(?)>'NC-5YS5W3A*([=08Y3H3KC4UNSJ(SJN([D MT8ZC0D-0-$6Z=X_UJ`Y_^(%@1HQH*%S\:(W^*`V'U(_.V($>%(\EV%0'B9`+ M`D<+:8(SN$=K!)&9)8\3N335&(4264X6Z9'$T(PAV9&?EWTI69)W5R[\[!5- M,4F2+6F2"26,ZR<$N$B3A*.3B\AF]+B3ERB2]Q2`0!F4](!Y" M3)F6(/64,/F6:FF61NB6EK>LF82\*,.P-PDYF(B;.61*E_'L27F.D;%[B+`MF9O@>:62.: MAJF4G8LKF71V6;MTD-D-6;2#>2J!6NCE@R;F$QEF3R(E]RDE42U:,SGE)_)1H:=)IE\11G=;I2=/9G,))70Q8 MG-Y93"BI9MJY@"=8GN;I*NAY=5OQ6]K9GN[9+*"8?]WIA="7GZYIG_*DA_[I MCOU8;+I8@)OYGY*P3_6YE;PVFT.GGBF7H-_)40)Z4]88,/IYH9(YH8)`6$3U]*=AR:I3;J?6-J.!D)IB)*?:1)HV5J&E;8@!::9&H:D>/T?*Q) MIG"J"P!('BHJ/NJ-O.DZI M4A"ZM)26*JF%0ZG5UZ4-"*7#HF^AVJD6TY:C:JYL%JY+ MRJYZ.JXIUJKOJH#Q*J_Z&I9-F&_X>J[SZJW\VJ]@`%?N"K#Y2K!SJJ[06:\) M"PC&1JP+R[`""[&<@Z[K:K$#^[`7ZU09J[$4*ZZ&ZK$Y!K+\ZXJMOZJJ)1M2 M'1N0*^NF,,NR0'6RK2BR51EH6SJS,>NR)ONL!ENS.-HN$@NCQA&+=W5VJQ2T M\#JT+7J6`+JT*'NSLCBU,\HMHK4?)"NT/4N"*0N?7+NOS(*U1$(DRF)8W<:M M7[6Q42FS]+IS__HSGLF-@V5V?C=&6ANV8_F7>;6V82NV0`==YKA$``:VPQ6U MR_FSO'*X]/JW;]=?O(58$R=?^M&PS)JXBENU=]HOXF5J^]-R460;"+L=E6NY M7HNX;0NJ0_MSA0=WS6:WJ#NZ MO3SC"T[KO-%+<-]KM>@[&,_K!^1;ON%;K9G8O`Q3KK$JO%-`M.7'OE1ZOSM; M=:[6O[4*OQPYP*>:O_I[N8QFOI3BOSY9P%V[P+3YP(F&MSRKOBMINIHVP7!6 MP7:VOZ6:P1I\P0?8P:OYP2J[P?';E*E#M@24O:@:P:X:PSQ;PK!!@XV5P+\; MP"(\PM#;PPVVNV"XPP@\PS*JMB>,GUQLEP5& M3OP.B<>.X+[\A\;>6\>DRR;[6W+*<;`T20L#7M1!$'+[+7$T&*:[Z;,ZK"K<5XAKQ4K_0&M`JM,3B M[%4`3<\]QR#YS,[SPFH'';(//1@6G;[R;'S>+-#\(`0F'!728&=F>]Q+HKNF M_]S1"5UZ2IRSY*+%*ES/)BU-9\J9*KW-#!UD0A+3-*4J&MV0,XF\ZYP[/>VC MW8S1)-K'[V'4V@@RB>2JV2,+C6,XTJUF:[S)?&9&K%2?&A>%VQ(+C8`'4;_,QDHU=R1-T. 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I don't > know who the source is. However, it's very neat, if proven true. > I've seen this done. It's cool. But it uses small aluminum FOIL pie pans. See my VandeGraaf Generator webpage for lots of other demos: http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/emotor/vdg.html Look under "VDG Hints and Demos", under "Sky Pie" .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 6 08:46:28 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA13617; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 08:08:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 08:08:41 -0800 Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 08:06:15 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: ELG02XP GIF on the WWW In-Reply-To: <961206061109_2083951996@emout08.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"wSKqg2.0.cK3.7K4go"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/697 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 6 Dec 1996 JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > ElectroGravity : ELG02 an Electro-dynamic device (PART 3) PICTURE > > Dear all > > You have attched a GIF Picture of ELG02 device in UUENCODED file. > > Speak to you soon, > > Jean-Louis Naudin - Email : JNaudin509@aol.com For those unaccustomed to UUDECODE, I've placed Jean-Louis' excellent article on the WWW at: http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/elgo2.html (with link to the GIF plans and photo) .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 6 09:36:30 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA18980; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 08:38:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 08:38:42 -0800 Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 08:11:14 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ElectroGravity : ELG02 an Electro-dynamic devic In-Reply-To: <961206093118_76216.2421_HHB21-2@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"UMnBm.0.Re4.Hm4go"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/698 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 6 Dec 1996, Rick Monteverde wrote: > Jean-Louis - > > Nice job on the electrogravitic device! > > A few questions and comments: > > Such a HV device can generate substantial ionic wind. How did you ensure that > such effects are not responsible for the weight loss you observed? Another method would be to fill a small room with wisps of incense smoke. When the machine is activated, if you see downward movement of the smoke-filled air, you know that it is an electrostatic helicopter rather than a contra-gravity effect. Now, if the device gets lighter AND the air around it goes UP rather than down, THAT would indicate something unconventional. This is said to be how the Finland Podkletnov/Modanese spinning superconductor anti-G effect was discovered: pipe smoke rising around the equipment enclosure, driven upwards by apparant gravitational anomaly. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 6 10:06:59 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA26800; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 09:32:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 09:32:28 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 12:30:45 -0500 Message-ID: <961206123043_232379055@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Re: ElectroGravity : ELG02 an Electro-dynamic device Resent-Message-ID: <"t0Qv01.0.cY6.gY5go"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/699 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For : Rick Monteverde Hi Rick, I conduct some experiments with the aim to kown if ionic wind is the only reason of observed thurst : 1) I spread small pieces of polystyrene on ELG02 device (cupola and ring) and I observe if ionic wind will induce particules motion : I notice only random motion due to electrostatic force, but no coordinate motion in reverse direction of thrust. 2) I put ELG02 device on plastic base with the same polystyrene particles spread on this base : Same result, no induced coordinate motion due to an eventual ionic wind. In conclusion, I think that the ionic wind (due to to high voltage) it's not enough to induce motion of the device (thrust is sufficient to produce up to 6% weight loss). I continue to investigate in this direction. Presently, I build a bigger device to magnify the result thrust. Your suggestion about measuring G changes through a liquid container, is very interesting and I will try to build this experiment. Speak to you soon, Jean-Louis Naudin Email : JNaudin509@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 6 12:02:43 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA07711; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 10:46:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 10:46:43 -0800 Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:38:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199612061838.NAA00347@freenet2.carleton.ca> From: ao260@freenet.carleton.ca (Ken Campbell) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Would like info about biofeedback control Reply-To: ao260@freenet.carleton.ca Resent-Message-ID: <"e7jKv.0.Ju1.Fe6go"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/700 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: *** Lance@Bluegrass.Net ("Sam Gordon") wrote; >I thought that if one could build the above device, You could think about a >letter or word while also thinking about your hand, thus changing >potentials between the test points. After doing some test and recording the >graphic results, you could overlay the >pictures and removing all line lengths that remain the same during each >thought test. >keeping the differences recorded for further testing. Here's an excerpt from the 'Industrial Culture Handbook': "It's a question of receptor technology. They've found that when people think words, they actually move the muscles in their lips and tongue as though they were pronouncing the words out loud - it's just the amplitude is lower. Knowing that, you can infer neural firing in the motor cortex, and special electrical waveforms associated with each word thoughts. I saw a demonstration with Rebecca Mahoney, a hot-shot computer programmer, sitting in front of a CRT wearing a hood which has a large number of disc electrodes on the inside. She can think simple words: near, far, left, right, up, down and stop and the computer can analyze the EEG waveform and move a dot around on the screen in accordance with her wishes. Multiple electrode recordings allowed the computer to classify the waveforms with a high degree of success. It is actually the thought that produces the waveform which the computer can recognize. This is technological mental telepathy - even though it's limited, it's a beginning." - Interview with Henry Morgenthau Jr. et al., c1979, Page 78-9 Regards, Ken Campbell. >> "If God is all, how can I be evil?" - Charles Manson >> "A whole nation could be held hostage > by their own genetic codes: - Monte Cazazza From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 6 18:14:55 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA20778; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 18:12:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 18:12:40 -0800 Message-ID: <32A1088D.37CB@keelynet.com> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 20:24:45 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Would like info about biofeedback control References: <199612060134.UAA21533@w3.bluegrass.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"a657r2.0.Y45.MADgo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/701 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lance! Check out some of the mind machine interfaces either being worked on or for sale ($150.00) for a single finger, using emg (myograph electrical potential)....click on keelynet below.... -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 6 21:12:03 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA21810; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 20:49:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 20:49:49 -0800 Date: 06 Dec 96 18:09:12 EST From: Rick Monteverde <76216.2421@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Re : Re: ElectroGravity : ELG02 an Electro-dyna Message-ID: <961206230911_76216.2421_HHB61-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"8zfzg2.0.dK5.gTFgo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/702 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jean-Louis wrote: > Your suggestion about measuring G changes through a > liquid container, is very interesting and I will try to > build this experiment. I'm sure you knew this, but I feel like I should clarify one point anyway: actual quantitative measurements using the liquid detector would be very difficult and probably useless. Its purpose would be to give a conceptually powerful qualitative visual indication of the existence, extent and shape of the field, and quash any possibility of objection to the reality of the effect on the basis of standard electrical effects. Quantitative measurements would of course be best done by weighing test objects or the device itself with good sheilding and/or checks for ionic wind in place as you have done. Again well done, and good luck on your further experiments. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 6 23:12:16 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA13308; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 23:04:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 23:04:09 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sat, 7 Dec 96 09:39:02 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: New book. Proceedings of conference New Ideas in Natural Sciences, June 1996, Russia Lines: 229 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_UHOq3.0.qF3.dRHgo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/703 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Sirs, The book "Proceedings of intenational scientific conference "New Ideas in Natural Sciences, St.-Petersburg, Russia, June 1996", English version, is ready for sale. Contents of the book: Contents Foreword 3 1. Contemporary Problems in Physics. Theoretical Investigations. Economic Effects of Space Energy Technologies (SET) on Individuals and Society, Gruber Josef 5 Editorial "On the History of the Event" 14 Magneto-Voltaic Technology, A Solid State Approach for Tapping the Zero-Point Energy Field (ZPE), Zielinsky A. 15 Researches on New Technologies, Address List 34 The Structure of Problems and Misconceptions in Modern Physics. Methods for Solution, Possibilities and Consequences, Smirnov A.P. 35 On Physical Space Structure and New Interaction in Nature, Baurov Yu.A. 45 The Hypothesis and The Equations of The Unified Matter Field, Nassikas A.A. 61 Classical and Modified Electrodynamics, Zhilin P.A. 73 Tetra Space Co-ordinates (A tetrahedron-based system of space co-ordinates), Hasslberger Josef 83 Galilei and Relativity Principle, Chirkov A.G. 87 A New Theory of the Unified Physical Field, Groshev V.L. 91 Physical essence of gravity constant and its consequences, Vasil'ev V.V. 93 The Ether Model as Result of the New Empirical Conception, Mishin A.M. 95 De Broglie Wave Physics, Butusov Kyrill P. 105 Expansion of Bor's Quantum Postulates, Klyushin J.G. 117 The Concept of Mass Process, Frolov A.V. 123 Thermal Electromagnetic Wave Generator, Lebed B.M, Petrov S.A. 135 Saha-Equation-Undeniable Evidence for the Physical Nature of Chemical Bonding, Mueller M. 141 Quantum Electron Hydrodynamics Under Charge Neutralization Conditions, Sanin A.L. 151 Energies, Impulses, and Forces Arising at Moving Electric Charges in Vacuum, Fogel V.A., Shepsenvol M.A. 157 Formula for Relatively Stable Carbon Clusters, Volkov A. 167 On the Anisotropy of Electron, Efimov A.A. 173 Kozyrev-Dirak Emanation Method of Detecting and Interaction With Matter, Shakhparonov I. 175 Non-dissipative Closed Electrical Current Process in Normal-State (Non-superconductive) Electroconductive Media, Turchaninov G.S., Turchaninov I.G. 189 A proposed Experiment of Direct Detecting of The Vector Potential Within Classical Electrodynamics, Onoochin V. 213 Torsion Fields and Their Experimental Manifestations, Akimov A.E., Shipov G.I. 221 A Generalized Formula for the Lorentz Force Density and Maxwell Equations, Klyushin J.G. 251 2. New Energetics. Practical Results. Cold Fusion Research: Models and Potential Benefits, Hurtak J.J., Bailey P.G. 261 Use of Regauging and Multivalved Potentials to Achieve Overunity EM Engines: Concepts and Specific Engine Examples, Bearden T.E. 277 About the Local Tapping of Energy, Galeczki G. and Marquardt P. 299 The Secret of The "Cold Fusion", Kanarev Ph.M. 305 A New Direction In The Energetics, Becklemeshev J.A., Becklemesheva G.J. 311 Microscopic Acceleration Mechanism The Cold Fusion in Deuterated Materials, Chicea D. 315 Free Energy Generation by Water Decomposition in Highly Efficiency Electrolytic Process, Goryachev I.V. 319 A New Beginning for Thermodynamics, Hasslberger J. 325 Thermodynamic Principles and Problems of Self-Organizing in Physical Systems, Berezovsky A. 331 Energy Transformation Dynamics, Mikhailovsky G.A. 349 Mechanisms of Energy Inversion and Self-Organization in Real Systems, Smirnov A.P. and Smirnov A.A. 355 On the Second Beginning of Thermodynamics, Buinov G.N. 359 N.Tesla's Unique Experiments in Colorado, Ignatyev G.F. 365 The Work is Created by Means of Potential Field, Frolov A.V. 371 Thermal Engine With a Single Heat Source, Serogodsky A. 381 3. Gravitation and adjacent technologies Free Fall of Elementary Particles: On Moving Bodies and Their Electromagnetic Forces, Rognerud N. 389 Construction an Engine for Free Space on the Base of a Pondemotor Effect, Ignatyev G.F. 407 Experimental Fundamentals for Determination of the Nature of Gravitation Interaction Carrier, Simakov A. 411 Gravitation Results from Interaction of Substance with Gradient of Ether Density, Shulgin V.G. 415 The Quantum Gravitation, Shpakov P.D. 419 A Gyroscope Video Workshop Set Up to Observe & Determine Mechanical Gyro Properties of Forces, Torques & Motions, McCabe F.J. 421 Rotating Hemisphere: Center of Mass Shift, Jeong E. 429 Diffraction of Gravitational Field, Butusov K.P. 451 About Experimental Proofs of Gravitational Sun to Earth Influence by Screening of the Part of Inflowing Surrounding Space Neutrinos, Vinogradova M.G.,Khod'kov A.E. 457 Gravitational Technology, Uspensky G.R. 461 Possibility for the Existence of Anti-Gravity and the Complete Parity Breaking of Gravity: Evidence from Free-Fall Experiment Using a Spinning Gyro, Hayasaka H., Tanaka H., Hashida T., Chubachi T., Sugiyama T. 467 The Concept of Gravitation, Frolov A.V. 481 The Antigravitation Force in The Balanced Rotating System, Kashuba V. 491 Compression of Standing Waves, Rhythm-dynamics and Third Condition of Rest, Ivanov Yu.N. 495 The Beginning of Experimental Gravitonics, Poliakov S.M. and Poliakov O.S. 529 Principles and Bases of the Support-less Movement and Realisation of it in a Nature, Belostotsky Y.G. 537 The Inertial Propulsion Drives, Shukalov B.D. 545 4. Researches of Space and Time The Initial Principles of N.A.Kozyrev's Causal Mechanics, Shikhobalov L.S. 553 Equivalence of Mass and Time, Abian A. 559 On the Question About Analytical Methods Those Reflect the "Substance-Space-Time" Unity of the Nature in the Laws of Natural Science, and About Main Properties of This Unity, Goriachko J.G. 569 Experiments on the Change of the Direction and Rate of Time Motion, Chernobrov V.A. 575 The Energy Anisotropy of Space, Efimov A.A., Shpitalnaya A.A. 583 On Some Properties of the Physical Time and Space, Veinik A.I. 587 To a Question on Reserves of Information Interaction in a Nature, Stavitsky V.I. 599 Generalized Golden Section and the Time Theory, Timashev A.R. 605 Information-Energy Model of Matter and Universe, Plykin V.D. 615 The United Holography Information Theory of the Universe, Dvorin G.V. 621 The Lorentz Component of the Cosmological Red Shift, Sharipov M.R. 625 Conclusion 635 Resolution 636 Contents 638 Price is $60, posting included. Way for payment is Western Union transfer in INCOMBANK, St.-Petersburg, Russia, for Mr. Alexander V. Frolov. Numbers of copies for sale is limited. Please, make reservation before you'll send money. Alexander V. Frolov Production Editor International MegaSciences Academy, Russia, St.-Petersburg, Institute for Free Energy, Director P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024, Russia alex@frolov.spb.ru --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 7 12:12:11 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA08477; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 12:01:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 12:01:17 -0800 From: Andrew Cantino Message-Id: <199612071939.OAA05579@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Electrostatic energy field To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (freenrg) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 14:39:38 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"qCOy8.0.K42.BqSgo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/704 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Plans to create an electrostatic energy field that repels incoming objects. The following plan, if used, could create a super strong electronic force field. Use with extreem caution. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Invention by: Andrew Cantino ac817@seorf.ohiou.edu Creating an electrostatic energy field that will act like a force field. ______ (+) ionic wind Diagram 1.1 / | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | \__ (-) ionic wind Two ionic fields are created 1 in. apart. These will need to be in the 100KV - 1000KV range. An incoming object will go through the + field and pick up a + charge. It will then bounce off the - field. This is because - and + charges repel. You will need to make the + field switch on and off very fast so that it does not bend away from the - field. -- Andrew Cantino ** ac817@seorf.ohiou.edu http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/homepage.html http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 7 13:04:35 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA12878; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 12:38:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 12:38:37 -0800 Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 12:37:33 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Re: ElectroGravity : ELG02 an Electro-dynamic device In-Reply-To: <961206123043_232379055@emout19.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"pVXCp2.0.693.CNTgo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/705 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 6 Dec 1996 JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > For : Rick Monteverde > > Hi Rick, > > I conduct some experiments with the aim to kown if ionic wind is the only > reason of observed thurst : > > 1) I spread small pieces of polystyrene on ELG02 device (cupola and ring) and > I observe if ionic wind will induce particules motion : I notice only random > motion due to electrostatic force, but no coordinate motion in reverse > direction of thrust. Styrofoam might not be sensitive enough to detect the air motion which creates the thrust. Smoke might work. Even better, try attaching a thin plastic sheet below the device to deflect any air stream. If the weight-loss is not changed when the path for air motion is blocked, then ion wind is not the source. Even better, enclose the entire device in a large plastic bag. If there is no path at all for air motion, then ion wind cannot cause thrusting forces. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 7 16:50:29 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA15699; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 16:49:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 16:49:18 -0800 Message-ID: <32AA1EB0.6384@gorge.net> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 17:49:36 -0800 From: tom@gorge.net (Tom Miller) Reply-To: tom@gorge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Frictionless Generator Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="1TESGEN.ASC" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="1TESGEN.ASC" Resent-Message-ID: <"l6UbE1.0.Br3.C2Xgo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/706 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Upon reading about o/u dvices based on homopolar generators, and seeing that a major impediment to o/u is the friction caused by the need for high speed sliding contacts to extract electric power. This put me in mind of a generator designed by Tesla, ca 1918. >From the book, Tesla's Engine, A New Dimension for Power (pages 60-61): "It (the generator or dynamo) consists of a smooth cylindrical body mounted on the turbine shaft and arranged to rotate within a magnetic field of novel form. There is no brush or sliding contact whatever, the current being taken from stationary termina ls to which the ends of the generating coils are connected. ...the efficiency being over 90 percent even in machines of very small size having rotors no more than 2 1/2 inches in diameter. ... It is capable of furnishing a current constant within a fract ion of 1 percent through a very wide range of speed variation, and as such is ideally suited to running arc lamps or kindred electrical devices in series. More surprising still and also of greater commercial import is its capability of maintaining a cons tant potential. Such results as are obtainable with it are wholly impossible with other types of electrical generators. It has been found in practice that all lamps but one can be turned off suddenly without the slightest perceptible flicker and even wit hout any observable effect on the needle of a delicate instrument indicating the voltage. ... There is no exciter, no commutator, no brush or sliding contact whatever, no centrifugal regulator, voltage controller or any such...device. The machine consists of but a stationary solid frame and two smooth cylindrical steel bodies mounted on a strong shaft arranged to rotate in bearings virtually frictionless. No oiling is required... A perfect dynamic balance is secured in a novel manner..." This document doesn't give us much to go on, but perhaps, if we discuss the possibilities, someone will figure it out. I have come up with the following presumtions/theories: 1. that this was written by Nicola Tesla, and that hi statements were truthful. 2. that he is talking about a single shaft, with a "steel cylinder" on each end, and a "tesla turbine" in the middle. 3. at first, since he mentions "within a magnetic field of novel form," and I know of tesla's prior work with homopolar generators, that this was a new form of same. 4. I imagined that a magnet/disc on each end of a steel cylinder/tube would cause current to flow in the tube when rotated. I was informed that homopolar discs only produce current through sliding contacts. so this is aout. 5. Since he talks about "bearings virtually frictionless"...and..."A perfect dynamic balance," I presume he was trying to make a magnetic bearing, and found a way to generate electricity. 6. I happened upon BillB's "mechanical maglev." http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/maglev/magroll.html 7. So, what about a variation of this machine such as: a steel cylinder mounted on a shaft rotated above a pair of bar magnets such that their polarity is opposed. I am told that this would work as a magnetic bearing. This may be the configuration of Tesla's device. More likely, though, it needs another configuration of the permanent magnets. 8. Another possibility is the "Barnet, Richardson, Einstein-DeHouse effect." That is, "When a body of a ferro substance is rotated, a magnetic field ia generated axially. Also, when a magnetic field is applied axially, rotation of the body results." I am not able to do any experiments on this device, but I hope some of you will. Any discussion? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 7 17:40:35 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA22641; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 17:35:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 17:35:32 -0800 Message-ID: <32AA28E9.7E12@gorge.net> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 18:33:13 -0800 From: tom@gorge.net (Tom Miller) Reply-To: tom@gorge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Frictionless Generator References: <32AA1EB0.6384@gorge.net> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------108F3E012496" Resent-Message-ID: <"0eWOI.0.gX5.YjXgo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/707 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------108F3E012496 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oops! the return on my recent post was unreadable. The first time I tried to post an attachment. I hope this one is better. --------------108F3E012496 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="1TESGEN.ASC" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="1TESGEN.ASC" Upon reading about o/u dvices based on homopolar generators, and seeing that a major impediment to o/u is the friction caused by the need for high speed sliding contacts to extract electric power. This put me in mind of a generator designed by Tesla, ca 1918. >From the book, Tesla's Engine, A New Dimension for Power (pages 60-61): "It (the generator or dynamo) consists of a smooth cylindrical body mounted on the turbine shaft and arranged to rotate within a magnetic field of novel form. There is no brush or sliding contact whatever, the current being taken from stationary terminals to which the ends of the generating coils are connected. ...the efficiency being over 90 percent even in machines of very small size having rotors no more than 2 1/2 inches in diameter. ... It is capable of furnishing a current constant within a fraction of 1 percent through a very wide range of speed variation, and as such is ideally suited to running arc lamps or kindred electrical devices in series. More surprising still and also of greater commercial import is its capability of maintaining a constant potential. Such results as are obtainable with it are wholly impossible with other types of electrical generators. It has been found in practice that all lamps but one can be turned off suddenly without the slightest perceptible flicker and even without any observable effect on the needle of a delicate instrument indicating the voltage. ... There is no exciter, no commutator, no brush or sliding contact whatever, no centrifugal regulator, voltage controller or any such...device. The machine consists of but a stationary solid frame and two smooth cylindrical steel bodies mounted on a strong shaft arranged to rotate in bearings virtually frictionless. No oiling is required... A perfect dynamic balance is secured in a novel manner..." This document doesn't give us much to go on, but perhaps, if we discuss the possibilities, someone will figure it out. I have come up with the following presumtions/theories: 1. that this was written by Nicola Tesla, and that his statements were truthful. 2. that he is talking about a single shaft, with a "steel cylinder" on each end, and a "tesla turbine" in the middle. 3. at first, since he mentions "within a magnetic field of novel form," and I know of tesla's prior work with homopolar generators, that this was a new form of same. 4. I imagined that a magnet/disc on each end of a steel cylinder/tube would cause current to flow in the tube when rotated. I was informed that homopolar discs only produce current through sliding contacts. so this is out. 5. Since he talks about "bearings virtually frictionless"...and..."A perfect dynamic balance," I presume he was trying to make a magnetic bearing, and found a way to generate electricity. 6. I happened upon BillB's "mechanical maglev." http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/maglev/magroll.html 7. So, what about a variation of this machine such as: a steel cylinder mounted on a shaft rotated above a pair of bar magnets such that their polarity is opposed. I am told that this would work as a magnetic bearing. This may be the configuration of Tesla's device. More likely, though, it needs another configuration of the permanent magnets. 8. Another possibility is the "Barnet, Richardson, Einstein-DeHouse effect." That is, "When a body of a ferro substance is rotated, a magnetic field ia generated axially. Also, when a magnetic field is applied axially, rotation of the body results." I am not able to do any experiments on this device, but I hope some of you will. Any discussion? Tom --------------108F3E012496-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 7 18:10:57 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA26587; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 18:05:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 18:05:08 -0800 Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 17:01:37 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Frictionless Generator In-Reply-To: <32AA1EB0.6384@gorge.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ETsLa3.0.FV6.G9Ygo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/708 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 7 Dec 1996, Tom Miller wrote: > is no exciter, no commutator, no brush or sliding contact whatever, no > centrifugal regulator, voltage controller or any such...device. The > machine consists of but a stationary solid frame and two smooth > cylindrical steel bodies mounted on a strong shaft This has me confused. Tesla built a two-disk homopolar generator where the disk rims touched each other like a pair of gears, and the current was taken off via sliding contact with the two shafts. There would be two smooth cylindrical steel bodies EACH ON ITS OWN SHAFT. But this can't be right, because there is still a need for sliding friction, even though the problems are lots less when the brushes aren't on the rim of the disk. If this was patented, there must be drawings. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 7 19:02:28 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA01063; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 18:50:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 18:50:14 -0800 Message-ID: <32AA3A86.4798@gorge.net> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 19:48:22 -0800 From: tom@gorge.net (Tom Miller) Reply-To: tom@gorge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Frictionless Generator References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"e1WK6.0.WG.ZpYgo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/709 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Tesla Engine Builder's Association (TEBA) has found drawings they THINK are of this device. The drawings show a tesla turbine in a sguare housing on one end, a large bearing, and then a cylinder with two "pole pieces" attached longitudinally to its circumference (ie. the the pols pieces, which I assume to be permanent magnets, have their long axis parallel to the cylinder axis, and are on opposite sides of the cylinder.) There is another drawing of a square housing with "pole pieces" mounted in each corner. These "pole pieces" look like square iron(?) cores which reach from each corner of the housing toward the center. At the end near the center, the end is curved, presumably to fit around the rotor. Each "pole piece" appears to have a wire wrapped around it, also near the rotor. This makes it look like a brushless AC generator, but that is just a guess. Tom From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 7 19:25:07 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA03439; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 19:10:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 19:10:45 -0800 X-Sender: bailey@best.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 17:59:56 -0800 To: pgb@padrak.com (Energy Send List as BCC) From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: WWW Site: TITLE 35 - PATENTS: (Cornell Law Library) Cc: neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"83qfg2.0.er.p6Zgo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/710 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/35/ TITLE 35 - PATENTS: Search (Cornell Law Library) The Title 35 Law in full text from the Cornell Law Library. Includes: Part I - Patent And Trademark Office; Part II - Patentability Of Inventions And Grant Of Patents; Part III - Patents And Protection Of Patent Rights; And Part IV - Patent Cooperation Treaty. The full text. Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 7 19:28:17 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA03682; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 19:13:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 19:13:23 -0800 X-Sender: bailey@best.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 17:59:37 -0800 To: pgb@padrak.com (Energy Send List as BCC) From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Call for Papers: 1997 IECEC Web Site Cc: neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"NAZFf1.0.Rv.H9Zgo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/711 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://members.aol.com/busassist/IECEC97.HTM IECEC-97 Call for Papers and Information: The American Institute of Chemical Engineers (AIChE) announces the 32nd Intersociety Energy Conversion Engineering Conference. The IECEC provides a forum to present and discuss engineering aspects of energy conversion, advanced energy conversion systems and devices, energy utilization and efficiency, environmental issues, and policy impacts on the research, development and implementation of energy systems. Papers dealing with all engineering aspects of the general topical areas listed below are welcome. Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 7 19:31:56 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA04023; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 19:14:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 19:14:38 -0800 Message-ID: <32A258FD.5114@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 20:20:13 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrostatic energy field References: <199612071939.OAA05579@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hbAxP2.0.i-.RAZgo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/712 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Andrew! I and many of the people in the KeelyNet network are of the opinion that resisting or deflecting aether flows will produce the phenomena of gravity reduction or elimination, time distortions, aggregation or dissociation of mass, etc... In a book by Stan Deyo called 'The Vindicator Scrolls' he describes a device which is a truck inner tube slit on the inside rim and held suspended by wooden disks.....these disks have a hole in them through which runs a wire that carries high voltage....there are some other components but nothing exotic...when turned on a vertical axis so that the tube is standing up....then being powered with high voltage, a kind of repulsion is produced upwards near the outside of the tube...it is not electrostatic and will repel organic, inorganic and non ferrous material....kind of an aether backflow...check it out...I'll post it as a file on the website... -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 7 20:36:04 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA12389; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 20:34:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 20:34:37 -0800 Message-ID: <32AA45DD.6FDD@plix.com> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 20:36:45 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) Reply-To: redorman@plix.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrostatic energy field References: <199612071939.OAA05579@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"e8gDt1.0.U13.QLago"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/713 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Andrew Cantino wrote: > > Plans to create an electrostatic energy field that repels incoming > objects. The following plan, if used, could create a super strong > electronic force field. Use with extreem caution. > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > Invention by: Andrew Cantino > ac817@seorf.ohiou.edu > > Creating an electrostatic energy field that will act like a > force field. > > ______ (+) ionic wind > Diagram 1.1 / > > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > > \__ (-) ionic wind > > Two ionic fields are created 1 in. apart. These will need to be in the > 100KV - 1000KV range. An incoming object will go through the + field > and pick up a + charge. It will then bounce off the - field. This is > because - and + charges repel. You will need to make the + field > switch on and off very fast so that it does not bend away from the - field. > > Since when do opposite charges repel each other? 1000KV 1 inch apart???? Have you tried this??? --Bob From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 8 00:24:12 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA12585; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 00:22:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 00:22:49 -0800 Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 00:22:28 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Frictionless Generator In-Reply-To: <32AA3A86.4798@gorge.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"6N-ai2.0.I43.Mhdgo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/714 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 7 Dec 1996, Tom Miller wrote: > fit around the rotor. Each "pole piece" appears to have a wire wrapped > around it, also near the rotor. This makes it look like a brushless AC > generator, but that is just a guess. Hmmmmm, interesting. Think about the above situation, but simplified. Spin a solid cylinder of iron next to an iron core. Wrap the core with wire. What does this thing do? Well, if there was a capacitor across the coil, I just bet that the spinning iron will magnetically couple to the resonant coil, and if the components were tuned right, small noise signals in the coil would cause small magnetizations in the spinning iron, it would break into strong AC oscillations which would build up until the iron saturated and the spinning cylinder behaved like a spinning magnet, and the coil output voltage would be a square wave, or at least a controlled-amplitude sine wave. But why not just put a big magnet in the center, instead of an iron cylinder? Maybe because the whole point is to give a constant voltage/current output. The saturation phenomena in the iron, which is in a feedback loop with the coil current, would "program" the device for constant stable output. Ever hear of a constant-voltage transformer? Older computer power supplies used them to pre-regulate the line power. This generator sounds like a combination of a constant voltage transformer and an induction motor used as a generator. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 8 01:35:02 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA29489; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 01:34:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 01:34:06 -0800 Message-ID: <32AA9A11.16A2@gorge.net> Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 02:36:01 -0800 From: tom@gorge.net (Tom Miller) Reply-To: tom@gorge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Frictionless Generator References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LtaKR3.0.eC7.Ckego"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/715 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: TO: BillB and Freengr-l Sounds like a good possibility. Something to think about. It reminds me that I am trying to figure out how to put together a *CHEAP* emergency generator. My humble abode is all electric, and we have had five major outages in the last month, one lasted a week. I can't afford a commercial genset. I have heard that an AC induction motor can be used as a generator, when connect to line current. They say that the line power energizes the inductor, and synchronizes the generator speed automatically to make 60 hz. But my need is for when there is no line power. Does anyone know whether a cheap inverter and a battery can be used to energize (and synchronize to 60 hz) such a generator? Or any other ideas? Used large electric motors are lots cheaper than generators. Thanks Tom From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 8 05:04:00 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA03425; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 05:00:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 05:00:41 -0800 Posted-Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 13:59:33 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <32AABB59.602F@pi.net> Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 13:58:01 +0100 From: "M. R. van Dootingh" Organization: Mood Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-PI-32 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weird science mailing list Subject: test References: <32AA1EB0.6384@gorge.net> <32AA28E9.7E12@gorge.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WUKQe1.0.Kr.tlhgo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/716 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Test Sorry, just ignore this message From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 8 07:14:07 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA00254; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 07:12:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 07:12:07 -0800 Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 16:11:38 GMT Message-Id: <199612081611.QAA17432@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Tetrahedral Co-ordinate System Resent-Message-ID: <"QrUUO2.0.t3.5hjgo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/717 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Alexander Lot wrote: > >The discrepency i am trying to point out lies in definitions. I >see your point. Although you have defined a negative axis to count as a >separate "vector", the current definition i have learned is that any >vector that can be expressed as a linear combination of a basis set for a >vector space does not need to be included to span that space. In other >words, the three standard vectors of cartesian 3-space are i,j,k (all unit >vectors). The negative axis are simply -i, -j, -k. Thus linear algebra >defines that as the basis set and since there are only three vectors in >this set, this vector space spanned by i, j, k is termed "3 dimensional." > I see, it is our definitions of vector that do not perfectly align. >As long as R^3 is spanned by the basis set, any point can be >mapped, and thus it will be no problem for mapping crystals points for say >x-ray crystallography. You may not get integral values for crystal >locations, something which the tetrahedron system may do, but in a >different type of packing scheme the tetrahedron system may give results >just as messy. Keep in mind, there are also cubic lattices were the >cartesian works just as well. Yes, you are of course right here. It's a matter of what system you prefer. > >When a co-ordinate system is applied to a given vector space it is >never implied that that space itself somehow conforms to the geometry of >the basis set. > See your point. >Actually, my point is that your idea of picking different >geometrial co-ordinate systems is not new. Linear algebra has done this >and generalized it for any dimensional system. It is flexible enough that >it allows tayloring to suit a persons calculational needs. > Yes, I understand. I would like to propose the tetrahedral system for broader application than just from time to time when calculational needs dictate. Certainly for navigation I see an application that can be developed and used generally, and there may be other uses as well. Brighter minds than myself might figure out what these uses are. Also, as I come across more data I might add to what I have written down. - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 8 14:52:34 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA09347; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 14:47:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 14:47:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199612082308.RAA27710@ns.vvm.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Brent Davidson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 16:43:11 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Electrostatic energy field Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"BFPHA1.0.mH2.eLqgo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/718 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > From: Andrew Cantino > Subject: Electrostatic energy field > To: freenrg-L (freenrg) > Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 14:39:38 -0500 (EST) > Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Plans to create an electrostatic energy field that repels incoming > objects. The following plan, if used, could create a super strong > electronic force field. Use with extreem caution. > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > Invention by: Andrew Cantino > ac817@seorf.ohiou.edu > > > Creating an electrostatic energy field that will act like a > force field. > > > ______ (+) ionic wind > Diagram 1.1 / > > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > > \__ (-) ionic wind > > Two ionic fields are created 1 in. apart. These will need to be in the > 100KV - 1000KV range. An incoming object will go through the + field > and pick up a + charge. It will then bounce off the - field. This is > because - and + charges repel. You will need to make the + field > switch on and off very fast so that it does not bend away from the - field. Opposites attract, likes repel. Also, using two fields of oppositre polarity would cause the fileds to neutralize each other. Also, there is the problem of velocity. Even if you could creat two fields that close together, it would probably only work on slow moving objects. The effect you want might be possible if you use magnetic fields to contain the ions. Check out the Hovertec info on Bill's web page for more info on magnetic ion containment. Brent Davidson From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 9 00:47:47 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA13099 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 00:41:38 -0800 Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 00:41:38 -0800 X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Mon Dec 9 00:40:31 1996 Received: from mail.eskimo.com (smartlst@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA12843 for ; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 00:40:23 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with internal id AAA15715; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 00:40:23 -0800 (PST) Old-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 00:40:23 -0800 (PST) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199612090840.AAA15715@mail.eskimo.com> To: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="AAA15715.850120823/mail.eskimo.com" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Diagnostic: Mail to vrlance@downtown.inu.net bounced 1 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: O X-Status: This is a MIME-encapsulated message --AAA15715.850120823/mail.eskimo.com The original message was received at Mon, 9 Dec 1996 00:37:19 -0800 (PST) from smartlst@localhost ----- The following addresses have delivery notifications ----- vrlance@downtown.inu.net (unrecoverable error) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to downtown.inu.net.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 unknown user 550 vrlance@downtown.inu.net... User unknown --AAA15715.850120823/mail.eskimo.com Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; mail.eskimo.com Arrival-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 00:37:19 -0800 (PST) Final-Recipient: rfc822; vrlance@downtown.inu.net Action: failed Status: 5.2.0 Remote-MTA: dns; downtown.inu.net Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 unknown user Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 00:39:24 -0800 (PST) --AAA15715.850120823/mail.eskimo.com Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Return-Path: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA15555; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 00:37:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 00:37:19 -0800 (PST) From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Message-Id: <199612090837.AAA15555@mail.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V96 #64 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume96/64 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com --AAA15715.850120823/mail.eskimo.com-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 9 03:24:48 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA00540; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 03:24:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 03:24:01 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements (fwd) Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 11:23:30 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32abe31f.29826572@mail.netspace.net.au> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99g/32.339 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JOV2d.0.L8.HR_go"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/719 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:24:15 -0500 (EST), John Alexander Lotoski wrote: > >> I am making any blatent mistakes here? :) > > I just realized that my above post IS making a blatent mistake >:). If no force is applied for circular motion, the orbit of the >particle will exit tangential to the last particular point that it was >still in orbit. I was applying newtons law incorrectly... There should >be no up/down/inside/outside preference since the molecules are not >connected to the centre of orbit. > >I'm curious as to what angular velocities the water must to rotated at >in order to an electric field phenomena to show. How is a vortex made >anyways? Also, why would it show? Possibly from dipoles interacting at [snip] While true that that is no force binding them to the centre of the orbit, there is a force on the outside (i.e. the wall of the container), preventing them from escaping tangentially. What happens is that many molecules try to crowd up against the outside wall. This forms a "layer" of packed molecules against the wall. Because the oxygen atom is smaller than both hydrogens together, it will more often fit into a gap in this layer than two hydrogens will. This results in an alignment where the oxygen points outward, but causes a "problem" for the rotation of the molecule. The problem is that the molecule would "like" to rotate about its symmetry axis (passing through the oxygen, between the two hydrogens). However, if the oxygen is pointing outward, then the rotation axis is no longer aligned with the overall axis of rotation of the fluid in the vortex. If the molecule can get rid of its rotational energy, then it can "settle down" between three other water molecules and benefit from hydrogen bonding energy. OK, I admit it, I'm in over my head :( Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 9 06:53:17 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA23945; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 06:52:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 06:52:00 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 05:52:43 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements (fwd) Resent-Message-ID: <"tBMY22.0.2s5.EU2ho"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/720 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 3:23 AM 12/9/96, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >[snip] >While true that that is no force binding them to the centre of the orbit, >there is a force on the outside (i.e. the wall of the container), >preventing them from escaping tangentially. What happens is that many >molecules try to crowd up against the outside wall. This forms a "layer" of >packed molecules against the wall. Because the oxygen atom is smaller than >both hydrogens together, it will more often fit into a gap in this layer >than two hydrogens will. [snip] > >Robin van Spaandonk My periodic chart shows a covalent radius of 0.32 =C5 for H and 0.73 =C5 for= O. This indicates the molecule looks like a 3D version of Mickey Mouse. The O has much more volume than the H. Since the atomic weight of the O is only about 16 vs 1 for the H, the H is actually more dense (wierd?). It seems like Mickey should float ears down in a centrifuge, due to normal priciples of bouyancy. This would put the plus side of the H2O molecule to the outside of the vortex at high G's. Do I have a mistake here? Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 9 07:40:26 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA02593; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:38:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:38:06 -0800 Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 10:36:59 -0500 (EST) From: John Alexander Lotoski To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Resent-Message-ID: <"gu-dx.0.Ie.R93ho"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/722 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 9 Dec 1996, Horace Heffner wrote: > My periodic chart shows a covalent radius of 0.32 =C5 for H and 0.73 =C5 = for O. > This indicates the molecule looks like a 3D version of Mickey Mouse. The > O has much more volume than the H. Since the atomic weight of the O is > only about 16 vs 1 for the H, the H is actually more dense (wierd?). It =09Considering only the nuclei, both atoms should be the same density. However, the electron cloud is what makes the volume difference. One electron in hydrogen only fills the 1s orbital. However, 8 valence electrons in oxygen fill the 2s and two p atomic orbitals. > seems like Mickey should float ears down in a centrifuge, due to normal > priciples of bouyancy. This would put the plus side of the H2O molecule = to =09Water does not have a preference to have the oxygen downwards, does it? Otherwise wouldn't we be seeing some pretty strange electric fields in oceans, etc? =09It seems to make sense to me that the buoyancy principle is a macroscopic effect. In a microscopic system, local electronic effects play the major role... Am i correct? I'll try and find out... > the outside of the vortex at high G's. Do I have a mistake here? >=20 >=20 > Regards, > PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 > Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 =09John Lotoski From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 9 07:58:07 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA04397; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:51:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:51:36 -0800 From: Andrew Cantino Message-Id: <199612091457.JAA25528@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: Electrostatic energy field To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 09:57:10 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199612082308.RAA27710@ns.vvm.com> from "Brent Davidson" at Dec 8, 96 04:43:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"jGFbl3.0.b41.6M3ho"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/723 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > > > Invention by: Andrew Cantino > > ac817@seorf.ohiou.edu > > > > > > Creating an electrostatic energy field that will act like a > > force field. > > > > > > ______ (+) ionic wind > > Diagram 1.1 / > > > > | | > > | | > > | | > > | | > > | | > > | | > > | | > > | | > > > > \__ (-) ionic wind > > > > Two ionic fields are created 1 in. apart. These will need to be in the > > 100KV - 1000KV range. An incoming object will go through the + field > > and pick up a + charge. It will then bounce off the - field. This is > > because - and + charges repel. You will need to make the + field > > switch on and off very fast so that it does not bend away from the - field. > > Opposites attract, likes repel. Also, using two fields of oppositre > polarity would cause the fileds to neutralize each other. Also, > there is the problem of velocity. Even if you could creat two > fields that close together, it would probably only work on slow > moving objects. The effect you want might be possible if you use > magnetic fields to contain the ions. Check out the Hovertec info on > Bill's web page for more info on magnetic ion containment. > > Brent Davidson > > It was an error. I ment one + field and one + field. Could you create two positive field that close together? Andrew -- Andrew Cantino ** ac817@seorf.ohiou.edu http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/homepage.html http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 9 09:06:30 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA15404; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 09:01:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 09:01:30 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 08:00:56 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements (fwd) Resent-Message-ID: <"wK-za2.0.Xm3.eN4ho"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/724 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >On Mon, 9 Dec 1996, Horace Heffner wrote: > >> My periodic chart shows a covalent radius of 0.32 =89 for H and 0.73 =89= for O. >> This indicates the molecule looks like a 3D version of Mickey Mouse. The >> O has much more volume than the H. Since the atomic weight of the O is >> only about 16 vs 1 for the H, the H is actually more dense (wierd?). It > > Considering only the nuclei, both atoms should be the same >density. However, the electron cloud is what makes the volume difference. >One electron in hydrogen only fills the 1s orbital. However, 8 valence >electrons in oxygen fill the 2s and two p atomic orbitals. The diameters given were atomic diameters, not nulear, which are measure om femtometers, not angstroms. I see the angstrom symbol was translated by your email prog into something else. I should just use A instead. > >> seems like Mickey should float ears down in a centrifuge, due to normal >> priciples of bouyancy. This would put the plus side of the H2O molecule = to > > Water does not have a preference to have the oxygen downwards, >does it? Otherwise wouldn't we be seeing some pretty strange electric >fields in oceans, etc? It would be surprising if such an effect were even measurable at 1 g. Maybe it is, but it seems like the atmospheric gradient would make it insignificant in normal circumstances. > > It seems to make sense to me that the buoyancy principle is a >macroscopic effect. In a microscopic system, local electronic effects >play the major role... Am i correct? I'll try and find out... > >> the outside of the vortex at high G's. Do I have a mistake here? >> >> >> Regards, >> PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 >> Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 > > John Lotoski Bouyancy works at the atomic level, otherwise the centrifuges would be unable to sort molecules and gas centrifuges sort gasses. Hydrogen and helium gas would not tend to be driven to the upper layers of the atmosphere. Yes, electronic effects are much larger than gravitational effects. However, in the otherwise fairly neutral environment of water, the statistical effect should be measureable. Also interresting: if Micky Mouse is upside down his ears should tend to be driven together by centrifugal force, further increasing the dipole moment of the H2O molecule, further increasing the electrostatic gradient. =46urther, the greater the gradient, due to all the above factors, the more dipoles align, the greater the electrostatic field, and the greater the electrostatic field the more the dipoles align, and thus the small effect is amplified (in other words increased due to the dielectric constant of water.) Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 9 09:20:06 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA17409; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 09:13:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 09:13:48 -0800 Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 19:11:34 -0200 (GMT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961209190915.074f923c@layla.aub.edu.lb> X-Sender: faa03@layla.aub.edu.lb X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Farid Abizeid Subject: Inquiry about EMP Resent-Message-ID: <"LfdYr3.0.vF4.9Z4ho"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/725 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi , I'm trying to find any information about high energy electro magnetic pulse (EMP) simulators on the web . But till now I haven't had any luck . So I would appreciate any information regarding this topic . From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 9 15:51:40 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA26351; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:08:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:08:59 -0800 Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 10:08:35 -0500 (EST) From: John Alexander Lotoski To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements (fwd) In-Reply-To: <32abe31f.29826572@mail.netspace.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Rebx.0.eR6.Ak2ho"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/721 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > While true that that is no force binding them to the centre of the orbit, > there is a force on the outside (i.e. the wall of the container), > preventing them from escaping tangentially. What happens is that many > molecules try to crowd up against the outside wall. This forms a "layer" of > packed molecules against the wall. Because the oxygen atom is smaller than > both hydrogens together, it will more often fit into a gap in this layer > than two hydrogens will. This results in an alignment where the oxygen Oxygen is approximatly 16 times more massive than one hydrogen. Wouldn't crowding against a wall have an up/down preference so that it maximizes it's overall radii from the center? I guess there is one way to figure it out forsure--measure the magnetic field interaction of the vortex created by the overall electric dipole of the spinning water. > points outward, but causes a "problem" for the rotation of the molecule. > The problem is that the molecule would "like" to rotate about its symmetry > axis (passing through the oxygen, between the two hydrogens). However, if > the oxygen is pointing outward, then the rotation axis is no longer aligned > with the overall axis of rotation of the fluid in the vortex. If the Why does rotation require alignment with the vortexial rotational axis? > OK, I admit it, I'm in over my head :( Same here... It would help if i had taken a fluid mechanics and electromagnetics course :)... John From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 9 17:58:46 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA27282 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 17:07:45 -0800 Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 17:07:45 -0800 X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Mon Dec 9 17:07:34 1996 Received: from localhost (localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with internal id RAA23351; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 17:07:33 -0800 Old-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 17:07:33 -0800 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199612100107.RAA23351@mx1.eskimo.com> To: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="RAA23351.850180053/mx1.eskimo.com" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Diagnostic: Mail to vrlance@downtown.inu.net bounced 2 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: O X-Status: This is a MIME-encapsulated message --RAA23351.850180053/mx1.eskimo.com The original message was received at Mon, 9 Dec 1996 15:53:20 -0800 from smartlst@localhost ----- The following addresses have delivery notifications ----- vrlance@downtown.inu.net (unrecoverable error) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to downtown.inu.net.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 unknown user 550 vrlance@downtown.inu.net... User unknown --RAA23351.850180053/mx1.eskimo.com Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; mx1.eskimo.com Arrival-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 15:53:20 -0800 Final-Recipient: rfc822; vrlance@downtown.inu.net Action: failed Status: 5.2.0 Remote-MTA: dns; downtown.inu.net Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 unknown user Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 17:06:52 -0800 --RAA23351.850180053/mx1.eskimo.com Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Return-Path: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA17768; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 15:53:20 -0800 Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 15:53:20 -0800 From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Message-Id: <199612092353.PAA17768@mx1.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V96 #66 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume96/66 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com --RAA23351.850180053/mx1.eskimo.com-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 9 21:10:11 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA21320; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 20:55:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 20:55:25 -0800 Message-ID: <32ACB403.6005@plix.com> Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 16:51:15 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) Reply-To: redorman@plix.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Inquiry about EMP References: <1.5.4.16.19961209190915.074f923c@layla.aub.edu.lb> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aIaND1.0.-C5.vqEho"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/726 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Farid Abizeid wrote: > > Hi , > I'm trying to find any information about high energy electro magnetic pulse > (EMP) simulators on the web . But till now I haven't had any luck . So I > would appreciate any information regarding this topic . I worked at GE testing "hardened" semiconductors (those made to withstand emp). We used a "flash X-ray" and a hi-intensity radioactive source that emitted neutrons. Not the kind of equipment for the average basement lab! --Bob From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 10 02:56:23 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA02316 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 02:23:36 -0800 Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 02:23:36 -0800 X-Envelope-From: ekwall2@diac.com Tue Dec 10 02:22:49 1996 Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id CAA01712 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 02:22:49 -0800 Received: from november.diac.com (root@diac.com [207.17.190.2]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA09526 for ; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 21:18:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from november (ekwall2@[207.17.190.73]) by november.diac.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA11797 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 05:17:40 GMT Old-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 22:17:39 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements (fwd) In-Reply-To: <32abe31f.29826572@mail.netspace.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: > >> I am making any blatent mistakes here? :) > > > Because the oxygen atom is smaller than both hydrogens together, > it will more often fit into a gap in this layer > than two hydrogens will. > OK, I admit it, I'm in over my head :( > Regards, > Robin van Spaandonk > "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." > -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* O

References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99g/32.339 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6F5RL2.0.eb3.aXLho"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/727 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 9 Dec 1996 08:00:56 -0800, Horace Heffner wrote: [snip] >>> seems like Mickey should float ears down in a centrifuge, due to normal >>> priciples of bouyancy. This would put the plus side of the H2O molecule to >> >> Water does not have a preference to have the oxygen downwards, >>does it? Otherwise wouldn't we be seeing some pretty strange electric >>fields in oceans, etc? > >It would be surprising if such an effect were even measurable at 1 g. >Maybe it is, but it seems like the atmospheric gradient would make it >insignificant in normal circumstances. > > > >> >> It seems to make sense to me that the buoyancy principle is a >>macroscopic effect. In a microscopic system, local electronic effects >>play the major role... Am i correct? I'll try and find out... >> >>> the outside of the vortex at high G's. Do I have a mistake here? >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 >>> Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 >> >> John Lotoski > > >Bouyancy works at the atomic level, otherwise the centrifuges would be >unable to sort molecules and gas centrifuges sort gasses. Hydrogen and >helium gas would not tend to be driven to the upper layers of the >atmosphere. > >Yes, electronic effects are much larger than gravitational effects. >However, in the otherwise fairly neutral environment of water, the >statistical effect should be measureable. > >Also interresting: if Micky Mouse is upside down his ears should tend to be >driven together by centrifugal force, further increasing the dipole moment >of the H2O molecule, further increasing the electrostatic gradient. > >Further, the greater the gradient, due to all the above factors, the more >dipoles align, the greater the electrostatic field, and the greater the >electrostatic field the more the dipoles align, and thus the small effect >is amplified (in other words increased due to the dielectric constant of >water.) 1) For the density of Hydrogen, using the figures Horace provided I get: 7.3 amu/A^3. For O I get 9.8 amu/A^3. So unless I am mistaken, oxygen is in fact denser (but not by much). 2) I too was originally of the opinion that buoyancy was a macroscopic effect, and am doing my damnedest to visualise this on a microscopic scale. 3) The self-reenforcing alignment effect, is something I mentioned a few posts back. However I would have expected this to be a minimum energy configuration. This doesn't sit very well with the observation that ice (which is bound together with hydrogen bonds) actually expands upon freezing. Unless the number of hydrogen bonds is maximised when all the molecules are not pointing in the same direction. 4) John wondered why spinning molecules would try to align with the axis of rotation of the fluid. Actually I think he may be correct. But wouldn't they precess around that axis? (And does anyone know how to work out the precession frequency? Or the rotation frequency either for that matter). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 10 06:51:51 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA23014; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 06:12:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 06:12:34 -0800 Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 09:10:14 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas Mahanna To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"3BZSq.0.Od5.E_Mho"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/728 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Water does not have a preference to have the oxygen downwards, > does it? Otherwise wouldn't we be seeing some pretty strange electric > fields in oceans, etc? But we do! When I learned basic chemistry, I remembered hearing about something called 'the natural ionization of water'. Water, left to itself, in fact, does have a (possibly self-generated) electric charge associated with it. Of course, this could be do to atmospheric charge, but I just thought I'd mention it. just my $0.02 Tom From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 11 00:45:28 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA28382 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 00:08:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 00:08:21 -0800 Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 00:08:21 -0800 X-Envelope-From: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 11 00:08:20 1996 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Old-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 10:25:23 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements (fwd) Resent-Message-ID: <"9lC3E2.0.ri6.efcho"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/732 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Already on the subscriber list X-Diagnostic: 20 hheffner@anc.ak.net 32740 hheffner@anc.ak.net X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: At 4:29 AM 12/10/96, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: [snip] >1) For the density of Hydrogen, using the figures Horace provided I get: >7.3 amu/A^3. For O I get 9.8 amu/A^3. So unless I am mistaken, oxygen is in >fact denser (but not by much). [snip] The figures I supplied were: H covalent radius: 0.32 A O covalent radius: 0.73 Checking my calculation: Density of H in AW/A^3 = 1.0079/(4/3*Pi*r^3) = 1.0079/(0.75*3.1416*(0.32^3)) = 1.0079/(2.3562*(0.032768)) = 12.006 Density of O in AW/A^3 = 15.9994/(4/3*Pi*r^3) = 15.9994/(0.75*3.1416*(0.73^3)) = 15.9994/(2.3562*(0.3890)) = 17.456 So right you are, the O is the dense end of the molecule, not so wierd after all. The molecules should tend to align negative end out, i.e. with the g force. I had a mistake in calculation somewhere. I suspect I used 2 units of mass for the H and one unit for the volume. The real situation is more complex in that the orbital volumes overlap somewhat and are not spherical. As to charge differential, i.e. electrostatic field in the electrolyte, it seems like that would tend to end up being balanced by migration of the H3O+ and OH- ions. However, the OH-, being denser, should tend to migrate in the direction of the g vector also, enhancing the effect of the negative "outside". I would think the electrostatic gradient would disapppear immediately upon stopping the centrifuge. Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 11 00:46:14 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA26498; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:46:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:46:11 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0b36.32.19961208185158.00687480@world.std.com> X-Sender: mica@world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0b36 (32) Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 18:54:32 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"izNl82.0.wT6._Qcho"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/731 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There is a lot of speculation on the structure of water here. What is known is that it is not a gas in normal solutions. The majority of hydrogen bonds are intact, although not all. Much of the structure of ice-1h is preserved along with interstitials along the c-axis; clathrates, clusters, chelates, linear alcohol chains, possible micelles, and more augmenting the structures. The ratio can be determined from the ratio of the heat of melting (divided by the sum of all heats required to heat 1 gm from about -15C to 100C (gas) Such analysis can demonstrate on the back of an envelope that the hydrogen bond is quite expensive, energetically speaking, at about 4.5 kilocalories per mole and therefore this too is consistent with the above observed structures. Although there may be present materials which lower the activation energy required for water molecule rotation (leading to intramolecular proton transfer), the H-bond structure probably controls much of the actual stereoconstellation. It is possible that the stereoconstellation of the water atmosphere may have a role in some o/u and purported o/u devices, but if it involves those bonds, one might consider their imposition upon the freedom of those molecules alluded to in the previous posts. Hope that helps. Mitchell Swartz (mica@world.std.com) ========================================================= At 12:29 PM 12/10/96 GMT, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >On Mon, 9 Dec 1996 08:00:56 -0800, Horace Heffner wrote: >[snip] >>>> seems like Mickey should float ears down in a centrifuge, due to normal >>>> priciples of bouyancy. This would put the plus side of the H2O molecule to >>> >>> Water does not have a preference to have the oxygen downwards, >>>does it? Otherwise wouldn't we be seeing some pretty strange electric >>>fields in oceans, etc? >> >>It would be surprising if such an effect were even measurable at 1 g. >>Maybe it is, but it seems like the atmospheric gradient would make it >>insignificant in normal circumstances. >> >> >> >>> >>> It seems to make sense to me that the buoyancy principle is a >>>macroscopic effect. In a microscopic system, local electronic effects >>>play the major role... Am i correct? I'll try and find out... >>> >>>> the outside of the vortex at high G's. Do I have a mistake here? >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 >>>> Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 >>> >>> John Lotoski >> >> >>Bouyancy works at the atomic level, otherwise the centrifuges would be >>unable to sort molecules and gas centrifuges sort gasses. Hydrogen and >>helium gas would not tend to be driven to the upper layers of the >>atmosphere. >> >>Yes, electronic effects are much larger than gravitational effects. >>However, in the otherwise fairly neutral environment of water, the >>statistical effect should be measureable. >> >>Also interresting: if Micky Mouse is upside down his ears should tend to be >>driven together by centrifugal force, further increasing the dipole moment >>of the H2O molecule, further increasing the electrostatic gradient. >> >>Further, the greater the gradient, due to all the above factors, the more >>dipoles align, the greater the electrostatic field, and the greater the >>electrostatic field the more the dipoles align, and thus the small effect >>is amplified (in other words increased due to the dielectric constant of >>water.) >1) For the density of Hydrogen, using the figures Horace provided I get: >7.3 amu/A^3. For O I get 9.8 amu/A^3. So unless I am mistaken, oxygen is in >fact denser (but not by much). >2) I too was originally of the opinion that buoyancy was a macroscopic >effect, and am doing my damnedest to visualise this on a microscopic scale. >3) The self-reenforcing alignment effect, is something I mentioned a few >posts back. However I would have expected this to be a minimum energy >configuration. This doesn't sit very well with the observation that ice >(which is bound together with hydrogen bonds) actually expands upon >freezing. Unless the number of hydrogen bonds is maximised when all the >molecules are not pointing in the same direction. >4) John wondered why spinning molecules would try to align with the axis of >rotation of the fluid. Actually I think he may be correct. But wouldn't >they precess around that axis? (And does anyone know how to work out the >precession frequency? Or the rotation frequency either for that matter). > > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk >-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* >Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on >temperature. >"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." >-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 11 01:30:56 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA00164; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 00:43:39 -0800 Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA27339 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 00:00:14 -0800 Received: from pp.hw.ac.uk (pp.hw.ac.uk [137.195.151.253]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA27873 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 11:05:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612101905.LAA27873@mail.eskimo.com> Received: from calmpc43.ma.hw.ac.uk by pp.hw.ac.uk with SMTP (XTPP); Tue, 10 Dec 1996 19:03:54 +0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "some dodgy student...." <"some dodgy student..."@hw.ac.uk> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 19:03:50 +0000 Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements (fwd) Reply-to: N.K.Tolley@hw.ac.uk Return-receipt-to: N.K.Tolley@hw.ac.uk Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Status: O X-Status: > > While true that that is no force binding them to the centre of the orbit, > > there is a force on the outside (i.e. the wall of the container), > > preventing them from escaping tangentially. What happens is that many > > molecules try to crowd up against the outside wall. This forms a "layer" of > > packed molecules against the wall. Because the oxygen atom is smaller than > > both hydrogens together, it will more often fit into a gap in this layer > > than two hydrogens will. This results in an alignment where the oxygen > > Oxygen is approximatly 16 times more massive than one hydrogen. > Wouldn't crowding against a wall have an up/down preference so that it > maximizes it's overall radii from the center? I guess there is one way to > figure it out forsure--measure the magnetic field interaction of the > vortex created by the overall electric dipole of the spinning water. > > > points outward, but causes a "problem" for the rotation of the molecule. > > The problem is that the molecule would "like" to rotate about its symmetry > > axis (passing through the oxygen, between the two hydrogens). However, if > > the oxygen is pointing outward, then the rotation axis is no longer aligned > > with the overall axis of rotation of the fluid in the vortex. If the > > Why does rotation require alignment with the vortexial rotational > axis? > > > OK, I admit it, I'm in over my head :( > > Same here... It would help if i had taken a fluid mechanics and > electromagnetics course :)... > > John Ok time to put this one to bed. The reason we dont see any effect due to the alignment of the molecules is due to the thermal agitation of the molecules. This is what keeps even "pure" water stirred up slightly. If you want a demo, just put a drop of food colouring in a bowl of water. it mixes slowly, even if you put it in perfectly, so there were no kinetic effects. This is why you dont get weird effects from still water. And besides, the water would start moving as soon as any field or mass interacted with it. Also, dont forget that hydogen bonding is the reason water is a liquid, not a gas, at room temp, and it can not be discounted. ***** All ideas, opinions and other stuff are mine... "It's far better to regret something you have done, than to regret something you haven't done." -Gibby Haynes IRC: Soapy on #international Efnet or #ircity Undernet Email: Phynkt@hw.ac.uk "guns dont kill ppl, ppl kill ppl" "Dont worry, I AM a laser scientist!" ***** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 11 08:06:56 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA32275; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 07:32:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 07:32:41 -0800 Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 09:16:06 -0500 (EST) From: John Alexander Lotoski Reply-To: John Alexander Lotoski To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199612101905.LAA27873@mail.eskimo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"DPAWz2.0.Au7.MGjho"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/735 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Ok time to put this one to bed. The reason we dont see any effect due > to the alignment of the molecules is due to the thermal agitation of > the molecules. This is what keeps even "pure" water stirred up > slightly. If you want a demo, just put a drop of food colouring in a > bowl of water. it mixes slowly, even if you put it in perfectly, so > there were no kinetic effects. This is why you dont get weird effects > from still water. And besides, the water would start moving as soon > as any field or mass interacted with it. Also, dont forget that > hydogen bonding is the reason water is a liquid, not a gas, at room > temp, and it can not be discounted. This is perfectly understandable for a solution not undergoing high speed translational motion around a central axis. However, what i still don't understand is exactly what forces will act classically on the water molecules due to circular orbit at high angular velocities. Not only do i not totally understand this, but also: some of the forces may oppose each other (ie thermal agitation wanting to break organization of dipoles due to centripetal acceleration). I would like to know what the minimum limit of angular velocity is for a vortex in so that the opposing forcing would be overcome and a dipole would be set up giving a net overall electric field (and magnetic field). It seems that there are many variables to consider, and i don't have the least clue where to start. Has this actual experiment been done before? (Making a vortex out of water). I saw a couple web pages posted awhile ago but lost them... Thanx John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 12 12:59:06 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA30439; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:56:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:56:26 -0800 Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:53:34 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Bedini Motor (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"9Iz5F3.0.WR7.t57io"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/736 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:03:11 -0800 From: Albert Yang To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: Bedini Motor I am having a little trouble building the Bedini motor because I don't quite understand the diagrams. I have emailed John himself but he hasn't replied in a week and so my guess is that he's not going to so I thought I'd ask you. now [the G-field generator], he's got a 12v motor, and a flywheel, and then he's got 2 magnets and coils behind it. The attachment from the coils to the AC-DC converter, is he attaching the coil wires or just two additional wires that he has stuck on there and does it matter where and how it's connected? From his drawings it doesn't look like it matters, and I was wondering if the two coils are connected in some way, or if they share the same wound wire, or what? I am a little confused and if you have better diagrams or any thing you can tell me to help me understand, I'd greatly appreciate it. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 12 21:37:29 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA22356; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 21:00:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 21:00:54 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 18:21:13 -0500 Message-ID: <961212182113_268709877@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Free Energy Motor Resent-Message-ID: <"-5FAj.0.AT5.4CEio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/737 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello all. Do any of you know where I can get easy to understand diagrams and instructions on how to build a free energy device? Thanks. :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 12 21:59:41 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA25718; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 21:25:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 21:25:26 -0800 Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:58:14 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199612122358.RAA05983@bluestem.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bedini Motor (fwd) Cc: lithium@ipgeek.com Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"9vq1V3.0.iH6.3ZEio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/738 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:03:11 -0800 >From: Albert Yang >To: billb@eskimo.com >Subject: Bedini Motor > >I am having a little trouble building the Bedini motor because I don't >quite understand the diagrams. I have emailed John himself but he >hasn't replied in a week and so my guess is that he's not going to so I >thought I'd ask you. > >now [the G-field generator], he's got a 12v motor, and a flywheel, and >then he's got 2 magnets and coils behind it. The attachment from the >coils to the AC-DC converter, is he attaching the coil wires or just two >additional wires that he has stuck on there and does it matter where and >how it's connected? From his drawings it doesn't look like it matters, >and I was wondering if the two coils are connected in some way, or if >they share the same wound wire, or what? I am a little confused and if >you have better diagrams or any thing you can tell me to help me >understand, I'd greatly appreciate it. > Hi, Are you reading the booklet "Bedini's Free Energ Generator"? The drawing of the "energizer" appears to be two coils but the text explains it is really six cols and six magnets. Each coil consists of about 200 turns of #20 wire. They are arranged as at the corners of a hexagon, and the magnets are arranged similarly on a rotating disk. The coils are all connected in series, with two leads coming out. There is a variable capacitor in parallel with these two wires. I don't know what the value of the capacitor should be yet! I am in the process of building it; I have more machine work to do to get the energizer completed. Good luck! Zack -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 12 22:16:04 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA27195; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 21:33:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 21:33:41 -0800 Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 20:19:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612130419.UAA12050@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Bedini Motor (fwd) Resent-Message-ID: <"ksEnk1.0.ne6.ogEio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/739 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:53 PM 12/12/96 -0800, you wrote: >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:03:11 -0800 >From: Albert Yang >To: billb@eskimo.com >Subject: Bedini Motor > >I am having a little trouble building the Bedini motor because I don't >quite understand the diagrams. I have emailed John himself but he >hasn't replied in a week and so my guess is that he's not going to so I >thought I'd ask you. > >now [the G-field generator], he's got a 12v motor, and a flywheel, and >then he's got 2 magnets and coils behind it. The attachment from the >coils to the AC-DC converter, is he attaching the coil wires or just two >additional wires that he has stuck on there and does it matter where and >how it's connected? From his drawings it doesn't look like it matters, >and I was wondering if the two coils are connected in some way, or if >they share the same wound wire, or what? I am a little confused and if >you have better diagrams or any thing you can tell me to help me >understand, I'd greatly appreciate it. > All the wires from the energizer are hooked up in series, there should be a capacitor across the output to match 30 to 60 hertz. then go into a bridge rectifier. Run the rectified output to a second battery, not the one that runs the drive motor. When the battery that drives the energizer drops to 11.2 volts, switch the batteries. You can also use a commutator or a relay, or even transistors to do the job automaticly. If you still do not understand, email me, and I will draw you a diagram so it is clear to you.> > > crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 13 01:40:29 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA31651 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 01:33:37 -0800 Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 01:33:37 -0800 X-Envelope-From: visitor6@cybercafe.euronet.nl Fri Dec 13 00:43:18 1996 Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA21687 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 00:43:16 -0800 Received: from cybercafe.euronet.nl (root@cybercafe.euronet.nl [194.134.3.177]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA23305 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 05:52:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from 194.134.3.184 (c7.cybercafe.euronet.nl [194.134.3.184]) by cybercafe.euronet.nl (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA22119 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 16:54:38 +0100 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961212204806.006b9a40@cybercafe.euronet.nl> X-Sender: pbn@cybercafe.euronet.nl X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Old-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:48:06 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: why X-Diagnostic: Unprocessed X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: unsubscribe oaune@dxcern.cern.ch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 13 01:45:39 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA26569; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 01:22:04 -0800 Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA21127 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 00:39:25 -0800 Received: from anc.ak.net (root@anc.ak.net [204.17.241.19]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA24519 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 06:05:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.17.242.64] (unused2-64.ak.net [204.17.242.64]) by anc.ak.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA00359 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 08:14:32 -0900 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 05:07:27 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements (fwd) Status: O X-Status: I sent this on 12/10 but it did not show up. Here is try number 2. At 4:29 AM 12/10/96, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: [snip] >1) For the density of Hydrogen, using the figures Horace provided I get: >7.3 amu/A^3. For O I get 9.8 amu/A^3. So unless I am mistaken, oxygen is in >fact denser (but not by much). [snip] The figures I supplied were: H covalent radius: 0.32 A O covalent radius: 0.73 Checking my calculation: Density of H in AW/A^3 = 1.0079/(4/3*Pi*r^3) = 1.0079/(0.75*3.1416*(0.32^3)) = 1.0079/(2.3562*(0.032768)) = 12.006 Density of O in AW/A^3 = 15.9994/(4/3*Pi*r^3) = 15.9994/(0.75*3.1416*(0.73^3)) = 15.9994/(2.3562*(0.3890)) = 17.456 So right you are, the O is the dense end of the molecule, not so wierd after all. The molecules should tend to align negative end out, i.e. with the g force. I had a mistake in calculation somewhere. I suspect I used 2 units of mass for the H and one unit for the volume. The real situation is more complex in that the orbital volumes overlap somewhat and are not spherical. As to charge differential, i.e. electrostatic field in the electrolyte, it seems like that would tend to end up being balanced by migration of the H3O+ and OH- ions. However, the OH-, being denser, should tend to migrate in the direction of the g vector also, enhancing the effect of the negative "outside". I would think the electrostatic gradient would disapppear immediately upon stopping the centrifuge. Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 13 02:12:14 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA31659; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 01:33:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 01:33:40 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 03:29:17 -0500 Message-ID: <961213032915_1589371092@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bedini Motor (my G-Field Picture) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.16758.emout11.mail.aol.com.850465755" Resent-Message-ID: <"mjAaP3.0.gt6.X5Iio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/742 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.16758.emout11.mail.aol.com.850465755 Content-ID: <0_16758_850465755@emout11.mail.aol.com.6104> Content-type: text/plain >From : Jean-Louis Naudin To : Albert Yang In attached document you have my own G-Field generator (picture in JPEG) used in my previous tests. (see my previous message in freenrg-L). Sincerely Jean-Louis Naudin (E-Mail : JNaudin509@aol.com) --PART.BOUNDARY.0.16758.emout11.mail.aol.com.850465755 Content-ID: <0_16758_850465755@emout11.mail.aol.com.6105> Content-type: image/jpeg; name="G-FIELD1.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CAEHATsDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk NOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElKU1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOE 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90601W1Nre28c0BIbaw6EdwexHqOazV8I6WJkaVbu6VCDHFd3ss8akf7LsQfxBrcT+H8aU/6 xfqaLCuxGyASQAeTUcoOOccVJJ0/4CabN/F9B/OmlcG9CNQAm7HO39KTlVHHGfWl/wCWJ/3P 60r/AHPz/lTsW0IOWAzzS/h0/wA/1pF/1p+i/wBKOzfUf0pWJK5tYPthvDF/pBj8rzMnhM5w B256464HoKl3BCVbP0pT90UyX/XH6t/IUWDqPU4ABHH1pm3kFDjpwRxT/wC79B/Omr2+opdQ eiuKJQSVbgj8alwxGT931Bqs3+vb6f4Vc/5Y00J7idGOB1OPxpQm8bto/HrSHr/20P8AKpIv 9WPxpMo//9k= --PART.BOUNDARY.0.16758.emout11.mail.aol.com.850465755-- From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 13 02:20:12 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA04169 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 01:45:51 -0800 Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 01:45:51 -0800 X-Envelope-From: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 13 01:26:18 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA26569; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 01:22:04 -0800 Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA21127 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 00:39:25 -0800 Received: from anc.ak.net (root@anc.ak.net [204.17.241.19]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA24519 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 06:05:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.17.242.64] (unused2-64.ak.net [204.17.242.64]) by anc.ak.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA00359 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 08:14:32 -0900 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Old-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 05:07:27 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: ? Query: combustion arrangements (fwd) X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest Status: O X-Status: I sent this on 12/10 but it did not show up. Here is try number 2. At 4:29 AM 12/10/96, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: [snip] >1) For the density of Hydrogen, using the figures Horace provided I get: >7.3 amu/A^3. For O I get 9.8 amu/A^3. So unless I am mistaken, oxygen is in >fact denser (but not by much). [snip] The figures I supplied were: H covalent radius: 0.32 A O covalent radius: 0.73 Checking my calculation: Density of H in AW/A^3 = 1.0079/(4/3*Pi*r^3) = 1.0079/(0.75*3.1416*(0.32^3)) = 1.0079/(2.3562*(0.032768)) = 12.006 Density of O in AW/A^3 = 15.9994/(4/3*Pi*r^3) = 15.9994/(0.75*3.1416*(0.73^3)) = 15.9994/(2.3562*(0.3890)) = 17.456 So right you are, the O is the dense end of the molecule, not so wierd after all. The molecules should tend to align negative end out, i.e. with the g force. I had a mistake in calculation somewhere. I suspect I used 2 units of mass for the H and one unit for the volume. The real situation is more complex in that the orbital volumes overlap somewhat and are not spherical. As to charge differential, i.e. electrostatic field in the electrolyte, it seems like that would tend to end up being balanced by migration of the H3O+ and OH- ions. However, the OH-, being denser, should tend to migrate in the direction of the g vector also, enhancing the effect of the negative "outside". I would think the electrostatic gradient would disapppear immediately upon stopping the centrifuge. Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 13 03:01:52 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA13422; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:45:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:45:19 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 05:44:38 -0500 Message-ID: <961213054437_708690321@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: G-Field Generator (Picture) (UUE encoded) Resent-Message-ID: <"d6z5K3.0.MH3.xEJio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/743 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From : Jean-Louis Naudin To : Albert Yang In attached document (UUE ENCODED), you have my own G-Field generator (picture in JPEG) used in my previous tests. (see my previous message in freenrg-L). Sincerely Jean-Louis Naudin (E-Mail : JNaudin509@aol.com) begin 644 G-FIELD1.JPG M_]C_X``02D9)1@`!`0```0`!``#_VP!#``@&!@<&!0@'!P<)"0@*#!0-#`L+ M#!D2$P\4'1H?'AT:'!P@)"XG("(L(QP<*#7J#A(6&AXB)BI*3E)66EYB9FJ*CI*6FIZBIJK*SM+6VM[BYNL+#Q,7& MQ\C)RM+3U-76U]C9VN'BX^3EYN?HZ>KQ\O/T]?;W^/GZ_\0`'P$``P$!`0$! 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M@+\IST]:9O8`AN0>"?\`&E7!S@YQ_P#6IIB8_:@4?*O'W1CI_AUIH15X"+QC MMZ=*=C(]1Z&EW="Q&<9SS3`1@H=B``2.H'6G!QCD`GU_R*"H!)QCK^=,)QQ@ M''')(IB+6>![T`Y)%(OW5^E`^^WT'\ZD`+$9)X&11@XXI'^[^(_G3AV^E`#< M@^N2,XI"I;/].*%_UB_[HIR_>/\`O4QD9P`.>*1A@`CC-#_ZO_@/^%*_W%^G M]*.@EJR.0+(#C.0>W:HMQC;8_.?>I4Z-]?Z&HKC_`(^!^%#0R4=#CM0"21@< M]:1>C?A_2EC^]^`_G0M08I.!G.!QSZ4X'DY/3@D4Q_\`5G_@-._YZ?7^AIM: M7`CN[2&^MI+:YB\R%\;AN(Z'(.1SD8!!'(P*FVE1R<"G#O\`Y[42?ZL_A4I@ MR,`@<\8'.*4G+,#SQSFE/1_H?Z4T_P"LD_SVHN'6PTLW3G(]^]*1R:>/O'_`':B'1?K0-$O.3GUZ&CD8Q]X MGK2M]X_Y[&D'5/\`/>B^HK%>]TZTU6U-K>V\Q'J.:S5\(Z6) MD:5;NZ5"#'%=WLL\:D?[+L0?Q!K<3^'\:4_ZQ?J:+"NQ&R`20`>34BN*)025;@C\:EPQ&3]WU!JLW^O;Z?X5<_Y8TT)[B=&.!U./ :QI0F\;MH_'K2'K_VT/\`*I(O]6/QI,H__]FL ` end From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 13 03:32:10 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA19216 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 03:31:24 -0800 Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 03:31:24 -0800 X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Fri Dec 13 03:31:12 1996 Received: from localhost (localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with internal id DAA17648; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 03:31:12 -0800 Old-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 03:31:12 -0800 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199612131131.DAA17648@mx1.eskimo.com> To: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="DAA17648.850476672/mx1.eskimo.com" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Diagnostic: Mail to vrlance@downtown.inu.net bounced 3 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: O X-Status: This is a MIME-encapsulated message --DAA17648.850476672/mx1.eskimo.com The original message was received at Fri, 13 Dec 1996 03:02:15 -0800 from smartlst@localhost ----- The following addresses have delivery notifications ----- vrlance@downtown.inu.net (unrecoverable error) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to downtown.inu.net.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 unknown user 550 vrlance@downtown.inu.net... User unknown --DAA17648.850476672/mx1.eskimo.com Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; mx1.eskimo.com Arrival-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 03:02:15 -0800 Final-Recipient: rfc822; vrlance@downtown.inu.net Action: failed Status: 5.2.0 Remote-MTA: dns; downtown.inu.net Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 unknown user Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 03:30:50 -0800 --DAA17648.850476672/mx1.eskimo.com Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Return-Path: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA16120; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 03:02:15 -0800 Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 03:02:15 -0800 From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Message-Id: <199612131102.DAA16120@mx1.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V96 #68 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume96/68 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com --DAA17648.850476672/mx1.eskimo.com-- From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 13 10:15:56 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA27403 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 01:26:08 -0800 Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 01:26:08 -0800 X-Envelope-From: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 13 00:31:45 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA11322; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 23:53:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 23:53:28 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Old-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:52:05 -0500 Message-ID: <961213025204_1040529416@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Bedini Motor (fwd) Resent-Message-ID: <"mUkF31.0.Lm2.sjGio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/740 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Unprocessed X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest Status: O X-Status: >From : Jean-Louis Naudin To : Albert Yang Albert Yang wrote (12/12/1996 22:57:38) : << I am having a little trouble building the Bedini motor because I don't quite understand the diagrams. I have emailed John himself but he hasn't replied in a week and so my guess is that he's not going to so I thought I'd ask you. >> I have tried to build some Bedini's machines (G-Field generator, Adams like motor, Scalar generator...), but now, i don't find unfortunately any overunity energy in those machines. Concerning the G-Field generator I have built the "2.5 Watt R.Cole generator plan's" : I have used : - Two coils made with 450 turns of 0.35 mm wire (0.01 H inductance). Coils have 2 cm X 2 cm section and its made with iron rods. - 4 barrium ferrite magnets, drived by a "Graupner Seed 600/8.4 V motor model" ( this motor is used on remote control scaled glider plane model, you can find it in any air scale model shop ). You can find this G-field generator plan in Bedini lab's note at : http://rand.nidlink.com/~john1/motor.html The G-Field generator use 2 modes for energy recovery (Voltage mode (VTG in Bedini's picture) and Current mode (CUR in Bedini's picture)) and we could collected energy in AC or in DC (through an AC/DC diodes bridge) - in Voltage mode (VTG) : The two coils are connected in serial mode (take care of adding phase voltage). - in Current mode (CUR) : The two coils are connected in parallel mode (take care of adding phase current). RESULTS : G-Field generator turn at 2400 RPM with 24 Watt input ( 8 volts, 3 A DC) Signal waveforms on scope have the same shape of Bedini's G-Field showed in picture with frequency of 40 Hz at 2400 RPM. AC mode with NO LOAD In CUR mode : 9.2 Volts RMS output In VTG mode : 19 Volts RMS output AC mode with LOAD ( 5 watt 12 volt lamp ) In CUR mode : U = 8 volts / I = 0.252 A power output about 3.5 Watt In VTG mode : U= 11.4 volts / I = 0.31 A power output about 2 Watt DC mode with NO LOAD In CUR mode : U = 15 volts In VTG mode : U = 29.5 volts DC mode with LOAD ( 5 watt 12 volt lamp ) In CUR mode : U = 8.4 volts / I = 0.25 A power output about 2.1 Watt In VTG mode : U= 7.1 volts / I = 0.22 A power output about 1.56 Watt In my next message, I will attached my G-Field motor picture. I think that these informations could help you in the Quest of Free Energy. I am very interesting in the result of your test. Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin Email : JNaudin509@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 13 19:11:18 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA26785; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 19:06:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 19:06:59 -0800 From: Andrew Cantino Message-Id: <199612132007.PAA08620@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: Electrostatic energy field To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 15:07:03 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199612082308.RAA27710@ns.vvm.com> from "Brent Davidson" at Dec 8, 96 04:43:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"FDi5G.0.ET6.NcXio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/744 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What about two + fields? > > > From: Andrew Cantino > > Subject: Electrostatic energy field > > To: freenrg-L (freenrg) > > Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 14:39:38 -0500 (EST) > > Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > > Plans to create an electrostatic energy field that repels incoming > > objects. The following plan, if used, could create a super strong > > electronic force field. Use with extreem caution. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Invention by: Andrew Cantino > > ac817@seorf.ohiou.edu > > > > > > Creating an electrostatic energy field that will act like a > > force field. > > > > > > ______ (+) ionic wind > > Diagram 1.1 / > > > > | | > > | | > > | | > > | | > > | | > > | | > > | | > > | | > > > > \__ (-) ionic wind > > > > Two ionic fields are created 1 in. apart. These will need to be in the > > 100KV - 1000KV range. An incoming object will go through the + field > > and pick up a + charge. It will then bounce off the - field. This is > > because - and + charges repel. You will need to make the + field > > switch on and off very fast so that it does not bend away from the - field. > > Opposites attract, likes repel. Also, using two fields of oppositre > polarity would cause the fileds to neutralize each other. Also, > there is the problem of velocity. Even if you could creat two > fields that close together, it would probably only work on slow > moving objects. The effect you want might be possible if you use > magnetic fields to contain the ions. Check out the Hovertec info on > Bill's web page for more info on magnetic ion containment. > > Brent Davidson > > -- Andrew Cantino ** ac817@seorf.ohiou.edu http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/homepage.html http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 13 19:20:42 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA30870; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 19:14:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 19:14:07 -0800 Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 16:19:40 +1100 Message-Id: <199612140519.QAA12780@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Free Energy Motor Resent-Message-ID: <"dj85V3.0.AU7.HjXio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/745 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:21 PM 12/12/96 -0500, you wrote: >Hello all. Do any of you know where I can get easy to understand diagrams and >instructions on how to build a free energy device? Thanks. :) > > >I have available a pc magnetic disk called encyclopedia of free energy in it are diagrams of some common free energy type ideas some claimed by their authors to have worked The simply crystal diodes would appear to work The cost is Twenty five dollars Australia and money orders for this amount can be obtained from Giro Post at your local post office for more details chech out my web page or send a reply email Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia ,Australia Check out web page http://www.main.murray.net.au/~egel From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 13 20:48:44 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA01996; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 20:42:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 20:42:02 -0800 Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 16:28:06 +1100 Message-Id: <199612140528.QAA12825@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: G-Field Generator (Picture) (UUE encoded) Resent-Message-ID: <"De9eJ1.0.cT.x_Yio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/746 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:44 AM 13/12/96 -0500, you wrote: >>From : Jean-Louis Naudin >To : Albert Yang > >In attached document (UUE ENCODED), you have my own G-Field generator >(picture in JPEG) used in my previous tests. (see my previous message in >freenrg-L). > How can I decode this picture so that I can view it any help would be gratefully recieved Geoff >Sincerely >Jean-Louis Naudin >(E-Mail : JNaudin509@aol.com) > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 13 23:34:00 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA04983; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 23:33:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 23:33:21 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 02:32:44 -0500 Message-ID: <961214023243_1652853747@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Re: G-Field Generator (Picture) (UUE encoded) Resent-Message-ID: <"FTFyp.0.iD1.-Wbio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/747 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dans un courrier date du 14/12/1996 06:07:53, vous avez ecrit : << How can I decode this picture so that I can view it any help would be gratefully recieved Geoff >> You can find UUDECODE tools at : UUencode & UUdecode for DOS http://www.execpc.com/~adw/uu.html A UUDecoder/Encoder For Windows! http://www.infocom.net/~elogan/wuudoall.html Speak to you soon Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 13 23:40:30 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA05663; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 23:39:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 23:39:48 -0800 Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 20:52:49 +1100 Message-Id: <199612140952.UAA13444@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Re : Re: G-Field Generator (Picture) (UUE encoded) Resent-Message-ID: <"iEcXs2.0.KO1.3dbio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/748 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:32 AM 14/12/96 -0500, you wrote: >Dans un courrier date du 14/12/1996 06:07:53, vous avez ecrit : > ><< How can I decode this picture so that I can view it > any help would be gratefully recieved > Geoff > >> > >You can find UUDECODE tools at : > >UUencode & UUdecode for DOS >http://www.execpc.com/~adw/uu.html > >A UUDecoder/Encoder For Windows! >http://www.infocom.net/~elogan/wuudoall.html > >Speak to you soon >Jean-Louis Naudin > >Jean Thanks for the steer Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 14 06:35:25 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA14534; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 06:35:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 06:35:00 -0800 Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 08:34:29 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199612141434.IAA26651@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: G-Field Generator (Picture) (UUE encoded) Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"5vyOe.0._Y3.Jihio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/749 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >At 05:44 AM 13/12/96 -0500, you wrote: >>>From : Jean-Louis Naudin >>To : Albert Yang >> >>In attached document (UUE ENCODED), you have my own G-Field generator >>(picture in JPEG) used in my previous tests. (see my previous message in >>freenrg-L). >> > >How can I decode this picture so that I can view it >any help would be gratefully recieved >Geoff > >>Sincerely >>Jean-Louis Naudin There is quite a bit of decoder software at the ftp site: oak.oakland.edu/pub/simtelnet/msdos/decode The file "uuxfer20.zip" contains the uudecode program I'm using. A couple other popular ones are: hexbin.zip (BinHex encoder/decoder) mime64b.zip (decodes MIME-encoded messages) There's a lot more there. Have fun! Zack -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 14 07:26:24 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA21013; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 07:12:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 07:12:13 -0800 From: fancares@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-ID: <32B2FB9B.535E@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 11:10:19 -0800 Reply-To: fancares@postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: (no subject) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YAadI1.0.585.6Fiio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/750 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: unsubscribe From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 14 07:36:11 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA27223; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 07:35:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 07:35:23 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 10:34:28 -0500 Message-ID: <961214103427_1488869868@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: josephnewman@earthlink.net cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Sharing the Knowledge of Free Energy Resent-Message-ID: <"sJSdO3.0.9f6.saiio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/751 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From : Jean-Louis Naudin To : Evan Soule (josephnewman@earthlink.net) on 13/12/1996 17:16:44, you wrote : << Dear Mr. Naudin, I wanted to give you some background on Bedini --- >> Dear Mr Soule, Thanks for your background history about Bedini's Free Energy quest. As far as I'm concerned, I'm profoundly convinced that Free Energy exists around us. I am following closely the works of Mr Bearden, Mr Newman and Mr Bedini. I think that their research and discoveries are very important for the future of humanity. Yet, as far as I am concerned, quest of Free Energy is like a jiggsaw-puzzle : each time I want to verify a theory, I need to fit together many pieces of this puzzle; each time I find a "magic electronique circuit" which seems to work (overunity), a strategic part is missing (for example in "Bedini web server" for the "Ron cole's bipolar switch circuit" the circuit seems complete but, without exact value of RC components for the 555 Timer, the test can't be done correctly (frequency ???, cyclic ratio ????....), it's the same for Bearden's Collector and Sweet VTA device and so on and so on..... I'm conducting the same quest and research, but I think that is very important to persuade the scientific community quickly. To spread quickly the thinking process in the world, I suggest to provide this kind of documents : - an "Easy make-it-yourself experiment" document to prove existence of Free Energy - a "Build yourself a Free Energy generator" document and spread these documents through the Web around the wolrd. For example, these documents could have this form : ============================================= FREE ENERGY EXIST !!!, JUST SEE FOR YOURSELF !!!! ------- BUILD YOURSELF YOUR OWN GENERATOR------- ============================================= A) INTRODUCTION : -....... -............. ( presentation of the concept ) B) PART LIST : -....... -....... -....... ( contain a PRECISE and a COMPLETE LIST of parts needed to build a simple Free Energy generator ( electronics components values ) and details diagrams ). C) SPECIFIC PREPARATION : -..... -...... ( contain step by step the COMPLETE details to build specifics components (like collector, conditioning magnets process, specifics coils for example....)). D) CONSTRUCTION STEPS : a)... b)... c)... ( All informations included must be clear and like an electronic cookbook...) E) RESULTS AND TESTS : Power Input measurements Power Output measurements Power Gain in direct mode and Power Gain in Loop Back mode ( a REAL demonstration of OVERUNITYhere !!!!) F) FEED-BACK AND CONCLUSIONS you could put here your E-Mail and Test form to collect feed back of engineer tests. ......... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------- I think that with this kind of document spread through the internet Web, you could convince scientific community without effort. I think that we are at dawn of a technologic revolution in energy domain, and this kind of discovery in Free Energy must not be restricted to a small community or a country and must be shared by ALL THE PLANET...... Sincerely Jean-Louis Naudin (France) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 14 08:28:26 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA04439; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 08:14:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 08:14:46 -0800 Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 02:44:36 +1030 (CST) From: stephen white To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Off topic, but best I can do. In-Reply-To: <961214103427_1488869868@emout19.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"DuFqJ1.0.D51.q9jio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/752 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi. Do any of you know where I can find a mailing list or newsgroup which specialises in the design of rotary or alternative engines? -- steve@adam.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 14 09:55:23 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA01868; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 09:54:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 09:54:41 -0800 Message-ID: <32B2EA67.196E@plix.com> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 09:56:55 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) Reply-To: redorman@plix.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: JNaudin509@aol.com Subject: Re: Sharing the Knowledge of Free Energy References: <961214103427_1488869868@emout19.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------17334B5322B" Resent-Message-ID: <"JTfft.0.5T.Vdkio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/753 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------17334B5322B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > >From : Jean-Louis Naudin > To : Evan Soule (josephnewman@earthlink.net) > > on 13/12/1996 17:16:44, you wrote : > > << Dear Mr. Naudin, > > I wanted to give you some background on Bedini --- > >> > > Dear Mr Soule, > > Thanks for your background history about Bedini's Free Energy quest. As far > as I'm concerned, I'm profoundly convinced that Free Energy exists around us. > I am following closely the works of Mr Bearden, Mr Newman and Mr Bedini. I > think that their research and discoveries are very important for the future > of humanity. > > Yet, as far as I am concerned, quest of Free Energy is like a jiggsaw-puzzle > : each time I want to verify a theory, I need to fit together many pieces of > this puzzle; each time I find a "magic electronique circuit" which seems to > work (overunity), a strategic part is missing (for example in "Bedini web > server" for the "Ron cole's bipolar switch circuit" the circuit seems > complete but, without exact value of RC components for the 555 Timer, the > test can't be done correctly (frequency ???, cyclic ratio ????....), it's the > same for Bearden's Collector and Sweet VTA device and so on and so on..... > > I'm conducting the same quest and research, but I think that is very > important to persuade the scientific community quickly. > > To spread quickly the thinking process in the world, I suggest to provide > this kind of documents : > > - an "Easy make-it-yourself experiment" document to prove existence of Free > Energy > - a "Build yourself a Free Energy generator" document > > and spread these documents through the Web around the wolrd. > > For example, these documents could have this form : > > ============================================= > FREE ENERGY EXIST !!!, JUST SEE FOR YOURSELF !!!! > ------- BUILD YOURSELF YOUR OWN GENERATOR------- > ============================================= > > A) INTRODUCTION : > -....... > -............. > ( presentation of the concept ) > > B) PART LIST : > -....... > -....... > -....... > ( contain a PRECISE and a COMPLETE LIST of parts needed to build a simple > Free Energy generator ( electronics components values ) and details diagrams > ). > > C) SPECIFIC PREPARATION : > -..... > -...... > ( contain step by step the COMPLETE details to build specifics components > (like collector, conditioning magnets process, specifics coils for > example....)). > > D) CONSTRUCTION STEPS : > a)... > b)... > c)... > ( All informations included must be clear and like an electronic cookbook...) > > E) RESULTS AND TESTS : > > Power Input measurements > Power Output measurements > > Power Gain in direct mode and Power Gain in Loop Back mode ( a REAL > demonstration of OVERUNITYhere !!!!) > > F) FEED-BACK AND CONCLUSIONS > > you could put here your E-Mail and Test form to collect feed back of engineer > tests. > ......... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------- > > I think that with this kind of document spread through the internet Web, you > could convince scientific community without effort. > > I think that we are at dawn of a technologic revolution in energy domain, and > this kind of discovery in Free Energy must not be restricted to a small > community or a country and must be shared by ALL THE PLANET...... > > Sincerely > Jean-Louis Naudin (France) > Email : JNaudin509@aol.com Dear Jean-Louis, Perhaps you might find the attached document (LIAG.TXT) interesting. Sorry it's not in French. --Bob Dorman --------------17334B5322B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="Liag.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Liag.txt" Low Inertia Armature Generator (LIAG) for Greater Power Efficiency by Robert E. Dorman March 22, 1996 Reformated for E-Mail 7/15/96 **************************************************************** C O P Y R I G H T N O T I C E Copyright 1996 This paper, in printed or electronic form, is copyrighted and may not be reproduced for sale, in whole or part, without the author's written permission. However, it may be freely copied and distributed in its entirety, without alteration, with full credit given for its authorship. **************************************************************** The generator design described I have placed in the public domain so that its usefulness might be proven as quickly as possible. Anyone is free to experiment with or market this device without any exclusive rights or license. **************************************************************** ABSTRACT A Low Inertia Armature Generator (LIAG) is introduced. This is an electric power generator with stationary coils and magnets, but with a rotating perforated magnetic shield between them, which should eliminate magnetic counterforce when under load. This allows for a light-weight armature and the possibility of greater than 100% efficiency, as Lenz's Law does not apply when there is no relative movement of the coil with respect to the magnetic field. 1.0 CONVENTIONAL GENERATOR THEORY 1.1 Configuration Conventional generators use either a stationary magnetic field (either permanent magnets or electromagnets) and a rotating coil armature), or they use a stationary coil (stator) and a rotating magnetic field. For simplicity sake, we will assume permanent magnets provide a fixed magnetic field for both the conventional generator and the LIAG. Coils of wire, wound upon laminated soft iron cores, make up the armature in the conventional generator. The mechanical input to the conventional generator is a rotary movement coupled to the armature shaft and the electrical output is taken from the armature coil through brushes. 1.2 Induction Theory Conventional electrical theory has it that electricity is produced, or more correctly, induced, in a coil of wire moving through a magnetic field (or, if you will, a magnetic field moving through a coil of wire). This is a simplification, or special case of the more general phenomena governed by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction, which describes the electrical effect of a changing magnetic field. The induction of electric current in the moving coil (connected to an appropriate electrical load, of course) is not so much an effect of the relative movement of the coil with respect to the magnet as it is of the CHANGE in the magnetic field that is seen by the coil. Since the function of an electric generator is to change mechanical power into electrical power, the movement of the coil in the magnetic field (or vice-versa), as the mechanical input, is a logical choice--but not the ONLY one possible. 2.0 CONVENTIONAL GENERATOR PROBLEMS 2.1 Weight A problem with conventional generators, especially large ones, is the heavy weight of the armatures. This contributes to frictional losses in the bearings, maintenance costs, requires a high starting torque, and can require complex and costly support structures. 2.2 Magnetic counterforce A more important loss, perhaps, occurs as a result of the phenomena described by Lenz's law: The induced current will appear in such a direction that it opposes the change that produced it. That mechanical agent which turns the armature coil (which is wired to an electrical load so that the circuit is completed and current will flow) in the magnetic field, will encounter an opposing force, requiring mechanical force to be used to overcome it to turn the coil. To put it briefly, to get electricity out we have to put mechanical work in. 3.0 LIAG DESIGN 3.1 Mechanical configuration A LIAG has a rotating perforated magnetic shield that spins between a stationary magnetic field (for our purposes, and for greatest efficiency, made up of permanent rare earth supermagnets) and stationary coils (wound upon laminated soft iron cores). This shield alternately passes and blocks the magnetic field and thereby induces an electric current in the coils. 3.2 Theory of operation The moving component, the magnetic shield, has negligible current flow through it, so there is no force opposing its motion due to electromagnetic induction, as there is with the conventional generator with its moving coils. Lenz's law does not apply because there is no moving coil or magnet to act upon. Because the shield is made from metals that have some magnetic properties, there should be a modest amount of magnetic drag as the metallic portions of the shield pass by the magnets. It should be emphasized that this opposing force, like the even lesser frictional force, is independent of the electrical load. Therefore, as the load is increased, the mechanical power rotating the armature does not have to increase accordingly. One can conclude, then, that with a modest mechanical power input sufficient to maintain an appropriate rotational velocity against the opposing forces of friction and magnetic drag, a power output could be produced that would only be limited by the strength of the magnetic field and the current carrying capacity of the wire coils. 3.3 Magnetic shield The main component of the shield is one or more layers of mu- metal [this may be a trade name, but is mentioned here in the context of a family of alloys commercially used for magnetic shielding]. This is a thin, light weight metal alloy that greatly attenuates the magnetic field strength. Although it provides a high degree of magnetic attenuation, it saturates in strong magnetic fields. Soft iron, on the other hand, does not attenuate very well (for the same thickness), but does not saturate as easily in strong magnetic fields. The shield, therefore, should be a laminate of materials, starting with the metal having the least tendency to saturate being next to the magnets and progressing to the metal having the greatest mag- netic attenuation, but poorest saturation characteristic, closer to the coils. The goal is to produce a shield with a maximum of magnetic attenuation, a minimum of saturation, a minimum of magnetic attraction (to cut down on the magnetic drag), and a minimum of thickness (so that a maximum magnetic field strength can reach the coils through the holes in the shield.) The shield, in the course of its rotation, will act as a shutter to rapidly switch on and off the magnetic field reaching the coils, thus inducing current flow. 4.0 CONCLUSION It is hoped that an excitement about the prospects for this power generation method has been kindled. The basic theory and advantages have been given. Detailed design considerations, drawings, experimental procedures, material resources, annotated bibliography of reference sources, and many possible mechanical and electrical configuration diagrams for AC and DC power generation using the LIAG method will be found in my yet to be published book: THE LIAG DESIGN MANUAL, VOL.I-THEORY AND NOTES. AUTHOR'S BACKGROUND I was graduated in 1970 from the State University of New York at Stony Brook with a Bachelor of Engineering degree in engineering science. I have had over twenty years of experience, both as an employee and as an independent contractor, working as an electronics engineer, systems engineer and technical writer. This included work in such fields as reliability engineering, software and hardware development for embedded processor systems, proposal writing, electronic warfare, military communications, satellite systems, weather instrumentation, and ultrasonic dispersive delay line and subsystem design. I have presented technical papers and conducted training seminars. I am presently doing independent research in northeast Washington, working toward a second degree in accounting, doing volunteer work, and am on the board of directors for the North Country People's Cooperative. --------------17334B5322B-- From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 14 10:12:11 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA07187 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 10:12:07 -0800 Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 10:12:07 -0800 X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Sat Dec 14 10:11:59 1996 Received: from localhost (localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with internal id KAA02003; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 10:11:59 -0800 Old-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 10:11:59 -0800 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199612141811.KAA02003@mx1.eskimo.com> To: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="KAA02003.850587119/mx1.eskimo.com" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Diagnostic: Mail to vrlance@downtown.inu.net bounced 4 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 4 X-Diagnostic: Removed: vrlance@downtown.inu.net 32760 X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: O X-Status: This is a MIME-encapsulated message --KAA02003.850587119/mx1.eskimo.com The original message was received at Sat, 14 Dec 1996 09:55:27 -0800 from smartlst@localhost ----- The following addresses have delivery notifications ----- vrlance@downtown.inu.net (unrecoverable error) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to downtown.inu.net.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 unknown user 550 vrlance@downtown.inu.net... User unknown --KAA02003.850587119/mx1.eskimo.com Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; mx1.eskimo.com Arrival-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 09:55:27 -0800 Final-Recipient: rfc822; vrlance@downtown.inu.net Action: failed Status: 5.2.0 Remote-MTA: dns; downtown.inu.net Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 unknown user Last-Attempt-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 10:11:43 -0800 --KAA02003.850587119/mx1.eskimo.com Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Return-Path: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA01958; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 09:55:27 -0800 Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 09:55:27 -0800 From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Message-Id: <199612141755.JAA01958@mx1.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V96 #69 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume96/69 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com --KAA02003.850587119/mx1.eskimo.com-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 14 18:39:19 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA14539; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 18:38:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 18:38:34 -0800 Message-Id: <199612150238.DAA25144@mailbox.swip.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Tommy Andersson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 03:39:57 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: UDT? Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.32a) Resent-Message-ID: <"fzyqW.0._Y3.fIsio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/754 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Have any one built the UDT fund at, http://www.getnet.com/~beng/russell/philosophy/fulcrum.v3n2/udt.html --------------------------------- Tommy Andersson tommy.andersson@mbox2.swipnet.se SWEDEN --------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 14 19:50:31 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA28358; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 19:49:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 19:49:28 -0800 Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 11:48:07 +0800 (SGT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19961215115329.217f1994@po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8@po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Mpower (by way of Mpower ) Subject: [Fwd: Create ball lightning w/ kitchen microwave oven?] Cc: Vortex Resent-Message-ID: <"SY9dp.0._w6.6Ltio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/755 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Anyone here done this yet ? rbarnett wrote: > > I was doing some research into ball lightning and came across an > interesting experiment. I found this piece of material from the Journal > of Geophysical Research (Vol. 99, No. D5, Pages 10679-81, May 20, 1994). > The article is entitled "Laboratory-produced ball lightning," by the > author Robert K. Golka Jr. > > Within the article he discusses methods of short-circuiting 60-cycle > currents across copper and aluminum electrodes under water. However, at > the top of the article is an 'Abstract' section, and he writes: > > "...Although I am hoping for some other types of ball lightning to emerge > such as strictly electrostatic-electromagnetic manifestations, I have been > unlucky in finding laboratory provable evidence. Cavity-formed plasmodes > can be made by putting a 2-inch burning candle in a home kitchen microwave > oven. The plasmodes float around for as long as the microwave energy is > present." > > I am wondering if anyone has tried this for themselves. I have not yet > had a chance to put a lit burning candle in a kitchen microwave oven and > turn on the power. Has anyone done this before... do actual plasmodes of > ball lightning float around within the inside of the oven? If so, does > anyone have an explanation to why this occurs? > > Thanks much, please respond via e-mail to my address. > > rbarnett@usc.edu > > P.S.> If you destroy your kitchen microwave oven by testing out this > experiment; I am not responsible for any damages. -- ********************************************************** * http://home.pacific.net.sg/~mpowers8 ******** ********************************************************** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 14 21:26:09 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA14412; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:24:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:24:23 -0800 Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 06:27:07 +0100 Message-Id: <199612150527.GAA19655@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Finsrud Perpetual Motion machine MPEG movie available ! X-Mailer: Resent-Message-ID: <"x6FOR1.0.3X3.5kuio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/756 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I just got a videotape about the Finsrud PM and have converted a short 10 seconds clip of it to an MPEG movie ! Check it out at: http://www.overunity.de/finsrud.htm It is just 600 KBytes big. You can play it with the new free ActiveMovie MPEG player from Microsoft or the XingMPEG player. It is 352x288 screen size with 25 frames/sec. Please spread the movie ! Thanks and happy X-mas. Regards, Stefan. P.S. also the other MPEG movies are still online at: http://www.overunity.de/movies/ I also updated the Newman page and the news page. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 14 21:40:38 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA15060; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:26:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:26:51 -0800 Message-ID: <32B489BC.55F7@triode.net.au> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:29:00 -0800 From: Max X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: UDT? References: <199612150238.DAA25144@mailbox.swip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Im9tf3.0.Ah3.Omuio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/757 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tommy Andersson wrote: > > Have any one built the UDT fund at, > http://www.getnet.com/~beng/russell/philosophy/fulcrum.v3n2/udt.html > > --------------------------------- > Tommy Andersson > tommy.andersson@mbox2.swipnet.se > SWEDEN > --------------------------------- Hi tommy, I looked into this device and found it wanting. The principal of operation if faulty and not based on sound engineering. The UDT POP claims that the fluxes cancel out in the centre leg of the UDT. However, orthodox magnetic theory says it is the magneto-motive forces of the opposing coils that cancel giving rise to no net flux flow - there has to be a net mmf in the centre leg for a flux to flow. I made one of these things using a ferrite core and tested it and confirmed that, once again, orthodoxy wins hands down. I found no O/U. The tricky bit is to accurately measure phase angles on the input to get an accurate power measurements. Failure to do this can generally lead to misleading O/U results. The UDT can be found at: http://www.philosophy.org/fulcrum.v3n2/udt.html The blurb says: "The following article comes via Toby Grotz, the electrical engineer on the Russell Science Research Team. Paul Raymond Jensen offers his idea free to the world. Thank you Mr. Jensen. We welcome your feedback, comments, or questions regarding this or any other article." I emailed Toby Grotz to find out more and I have included his reply. Subject: UDT Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 11:11:02 -0700 From: Max To: wireless@rmii.com Attention Toby Grotz. Dear Mr Grotz, Can you please shed some light on the unidirectional Transformer design released publicly via 'Science Journal of the University of Science and Philosophy' described as being sourced by you? I wish to build a UDT but dont want to waste my time flogging a dead horse. Can you please authenticate the reality of this overunity unit? Has a working version of a UDT been built and shown to produce overunity? Is there someone I can communicate with who can help me duplicate this work? Thank You. ----------------- Toby Grotz reply: ----------------- Subject: Re: UDT Date: Fri, 25 Oct 96 08:24 MDT From: wireless@rmii.com (toby grotz) To: Max >To my knowledge, Paul Jenson never pursued this past the first few that he built. I do not know if anyone else has built one. You can check with Walt Rosenthal at 805-934-2058. He met Jensen and saw some of the hardware. ------------ What leaves me puzzled is why Mr Grozt, and engineer, did not spot the flaw in the POP (principle of operation) for the UDT? I hope this throws some light on the UDT, Max. ---------------------------MORE ON UDT---------------------------------- You can get a Transcript of a talk by Paul R. Jensen - The Unidirectional Transformer [pp 545-549] the ISNE is run by Toby Grotz, I think from memory. ************************************************************************ Proceedings of the 2nd International Symposium on New Energy: 2nd ISNE ************************************************************************ 2nd International Symposium on New Energy Featuring Over 30 Advanced Energy Researchers Including Several International Researchers Sponsored by the Institute for New Energy AND FEATURING AN EXPLORATION OF "FREE ENERGY" GENERATORS: A SYMPOSIUM FOR PROFESSIONALS, INDUSTRY, LAY PEOPLE, AND NEWS MEDIA Was Held: May 12-15, 1994, at the Denver Hilton South, Denver, CO. PROCEEDINGS ORDERING: --------------------- The Proceedings is $50.00 plus Shipping and Handling as follows: [656 Pages, Includes a Subject Index] [8 1/2 by 11 by 1 1/2 inches, Spiral Bound] Proceedings + Air/Surface/Book Mailing Rates = Total Cost: [All Amounts are due in US Dollars] Air /Surf./Book Rates: Cont. USA: $50.00 + 5.00/5.00/2.00 = $55.00/55.00/52.00. Hawaii: $50.00 + 5.00/5.00/2.00 = $55.00/55.00/52.00. Canada: $50.00 + 6.00/6.00/3.00 = $56.00/56.00/53.00. Europe: $50.00 + 17.00/7.00/4.00 = $67.00/57.00/54.00. USSR: $50.00 + 17.00/7.00/4.00 = $67.00/57.00/54.00. China: $50.00 + 23.00/7.00/4.00 = $73.00/57.00/54.00. Kuwait: $50.00 + 23.00/7.00/4.00 = $73.00/57.00/54.00. Others: Use a Country closest to those above. ORDER THE PROCEEDINGS FROM: ORDER THE PROCEEDINGS FROM: The Institute for New Energy P.O. Box 201 Los Altos, CA 94023-0201 ine@padrak.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 14 22:57:12 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA29422; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 22:54:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 22:54:35 -0800 X-Sender: jameshartman@michigan.tsrcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 00:58:34 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: jameshartman@tsrcom.com (James Hartman) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Create ball lightning w/ kitchen microwave oven?] Message-ID: <19961215065413265.AAA120@rowboat.tsrcom.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"KCMB61.0.YB7.f2wio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/758 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The closest I came to what I would call "ball lighting" was when I was watching my younger brother Scott fix a 100 Watt Marshall Amp. For a week it would stop running and turn off. We were in the basement getting ready to test the tubes, B-Line Voltages, etc. when he through the switch. Then smaking snap sounded and an orange see through ball of plasma shot out slowly dipped unto the wooden floor bounced back up and vanished before our eye's. Like this: -*-* *-Vanished - - * It was Quarter sized. jumped 7 accross then down up another 3 feet ahead. It was about 4 feet above the floor at max hight. That was our only unplanned lab experiment. Was this Ball Lighting? Best Wishes, ---James E. Hartman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 14 23:25:52 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA02741; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 23:25:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 23:25:12 -0800 Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 20:39:12 +1100 Message-Id: <199612150939.UAA16272@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: UDT? Resent-Message-ID: <"0C5K8.0.Zg.KVwio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/759 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:39 AM 15/12/96 +0000, you wrote: >Have any one built the UDT fund at, >http://www.getnet.com/~beng/russell/philosophy/fulcrum.v3n2/udt.html > >--------------------------------- > Tommy Andersson > tommy.andersson@mbox2.swipnet.se > SWEDEN >--------------------------------- > > >What is a UDT Geoff Egel From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 14 23:54:40 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA07290; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 23:53:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 23:53:41 -0800 Message-ID: <32B3AF11.44C4@plix.com> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 23:56:01 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) Reply-To: redorman@plix.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: 1996-12-13 Exec Order on Alternative Fueled Vehicle Leadership] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"ZJ67C2.0.pn1.4wwio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/760 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Return-Path: Received: from cinnamon-life.ai.mit.edu ([128.52.32.56]) by ixi-1.plix.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA186 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:12:08 -0800 Received: from CLINTON.AI.MIT.EDU (clinton.ai.mit.edu [128.52.33.14]) by cinnamon-life.ai.mit.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4AI/cinnamon-life.ai.mit.edu:1.2) with SMTP id WAA05763; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 22:21:24 -0500 (EST) Errors-To: Mail-Server@clinton.ai.mit.edu Delivered-By-The-Graces-Of: White House Electronic Publications Precedence: Bulk To: Public-Distribution@clinton.ai.mit.edu Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:09-0500 From: The White House Reply-To: Publications@clinton.ai.mit.edu Subject: 1996-12-13 Exec Order on Alternative Fueled Vehicle Leadership Keywords: Economy, Energy, Executive-Act, Executive-Order, Government, Infrastructure, Organization, Transportation Document-ID: PDI://OMA.EOP.GOV.US/1996/12/14/3.TEXT.1 Message-ID: <19961215020918.9.Mail-Server@CLINTON.AI.MIT.EDU> THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary _______________________________________________________________ For Immediate Release December 13, 1996 EXECUTIVE ORDER - - - - - - - FEDERAL ALTERNATIVE FUELED VEHICLE LEADERSHIP By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the Energy Policy and Conservation Act, as amended (42 U.S.C. 6201 et seq.), the Energy Policy Act of 1992 (Public Law 102-486) ("the Act"), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, and with the knowledge that the use of alternative fueled motor vehicles will, in many applications, reduce the Nation's dependence on oil, and may create jobs by providing an economic stimulus for domestic industry, and may improve the Nation's air quality by reducing pollutants in the atmosphere, it is hereby ordered as follows: Section 1. Federal Leadership and Goals. (a) The purpose of this order is to ensure that the Federal Government exercise leadership in the use of alternative fueled vehicles (AFVs). To that end, each Federal agency shall develop and implement aggressive plans to fulfill the alternative fueled vehicle acquisition requirements established by the Act. The Act generally requires that, of the vehicles acquired by each agency for its fleets, subject to certain conditions specified in section 303(b)(1) of the Act, 25 percent should be AFVs in fiscal year (FY) 1996, 33 percent in FY 1997, 50 percent in FY 1998, and 75 percent in FY 1999 and thereafter. These requirements apply to all agencies, regardless of whether they lease vehicles from the General Services Administration (GSA) or acquire them elsewhere. That section also defines which Federal agency vehicles are covered by the AFV acquisition requirements; this order applies to the same vehicles, which are primarily general-use vehicles located in metropolitan statistical areas with populations of 250,000 or more. (b) To the extent practicable, agencies shall use alternative fuels in all vehicles capable of using them. Agencies shall continue to work together in interagency committees recommended by the Federal Fleet Conversion Task Force established by Executive Order 12844 of April 21, 1993, to coordinate their vehicle acquisitions and placement. Sec. 2. Submission of Agency Plans and Reports on Statutory Compliance. (a) Sixty (60) days after the date of this Executive order, and annually thereafter as part of its budget submission to the Director of the Office of Management and Budget, each agency shall submit a report on its compliance with sections 303 and 304 of the Act. A copy of the report shall also be submitted to the Secretary of Energy and to the Administrator of General Services. The report shall state whether the agency is in compliance with the Act, and substantiate that statement with quantitative data including numbers and types of vehicles acquired and the level of their use. At a minimum, the report shall indicate the number of vehicles acquired or converted for each fuel type and vehicle class, and the total number of vehicles of each fuel type operated by the agency. The Director of the Office of Management and Budget shall issue further reporting guidance as necessary. (b) If an agency has failed to meet the statutory requirements, it shall include in its report an explanation for such failure and a plan, consistent with the agency's current and requested budgets, for achieving compliance with the Act. The plan shall include alternative sources of suitable AFVs if the agency's primary vehicle supplier is unable to meet the AFV requirements. (c) The Secretary of the Department of Energy and the Administrator of General Services shall cooperatively analyze the agency AFV reports and acquisition plans, and shall submit jointly a summary report to the Director of the Office of Management and Budget. Sec. 3. Exceptions for Law-Enforcement, Emergency, and National Defense Vehicles. Section 303 of the Act allows exemptions to the acquisition requirements for law-enforcement, emergency, and vehicles acquired and used for military purposes that the Secretary of Defense has certified must be exempt for national security reasons. Law enforcement vehicles shall include vehicles used for protective activities. Each agency that acquires or utilizes any such vehicles shall include in its report an explanation of why an exemption is claimed with respect to such vehicles. Sec. 4. Fulfilling the Acquisition Requirement. (a) Agencies may acquire alternative fueled vehicles to meet the requirements of this order through lease from GSA, acquisition of original equipment manufacturer models, commercial lease, conversion of conventionally fueled vehicles, or any combination of these approaches. All vehicles, including those converted for alternative fuel use, shall comply with all applicable Federal and State emissions and safety standards. (b) Based on its own plans and the plans and reports submitted by other agencies, the Administrator of General Services shall provide planning information to potential AFV suppliers to assist in production planning. After consulting with AFV suppliers, the Administrator of General Services shall provide to Federal agencies information on the production plans of AFV suppliers well in advance of budget and ordering cycles. (c) As required by section 305 of the Act, the Secretary of Energy, in cooperation with the Administrator of General Services, shall continue to provide technical assistance to other Federal agencies that acquire alternative fueled vehicles and shall facilitate the coordination of the Federal Government's alternative fueled vehicle program. Sec. 5. Vehicle Reporting Credits. The gains in air quality and energy security that this order seeks to achieve will be even larger if medium- and heavy-duty vehicles are operated on alternative fuels, and if "zero-emissions vehicles" (ZEVs) are used. Therefore, for the purposes of this order, agencies may acquire medium- or heavy-duty dedicated alternative fueled vehicles or ZEVs to meet their AFV acquisition requirements, and they shall be given credits for compliance with their AFV targets as follows. Each medium-duty and ZEV shall count the same as two light-duty AFVs, and each dedicated alternative fueled heavy-duty vehicle shall count as three light-duty AFVs. The ZEV credits may be combined with vehicle size credits. The Director of the Office of Management and Budget, in consultation with the Secretary of Energy, shall issue detailed guidance on the classification and reporting of medium-duty, heavy-duty, and ZEVs. In the reports mandated in section 2 of this order, medium- and heavy-duty AFVs and ZEVs shall be identified separately from light-duty vehicles. Sec. 6. Funding Alternative Fueled Vehicle Acquisition. (a) The Department of Energy will no longer request or require specific appropriations to fund the incremental costs of alternative fueled vehicles, including any incremental costs associated with acquisition and disposal, for other agencies. Agencies shall formulate their compliance plans based on existing and requested funds, but shall not be exempt from the requirements of the Act or this order due to limited appropriations. (b) An exception regarding funding assistance shall be made for electric vehicles, which are in an earlier stage of development than other alternative fueled vehicles. The Secretary of Energy shall establish a program beginning in FY 1997 to provide partial funding assistance for agency purchases of electric vehicles. Up to $10,000 or one-half the incremental cost over a comparable gasoline-powered vehicle, whichever is less, may be provided as funding assistance for each electric vehicle, subject to the availability of funds. Sec. 7. Agency Cooperation with Stakeholders on Alternative Fueled Vehicle Placement and Refueling Capabilities. The Secretary of Energy shall work with agencies procuring AFVs to coordinate the placement of their vehicles with the placement of similar vehicles by nonfederal alternative fuel stakeholders. Federal planning and acquisition efforts shall be coordinated with the efforts of the Department of Energy's "Clean Cities" participants, private industry fuel suppliers, and fleet operators, and State and local governments to ensure that adequate private sector refueling capabilities exist or will exist wherever Federal fleet alternative fueled vehicles are located. Each agency's fleet managers shall work with appropriate organizations at their respective locations, whether in a "Clean Cities" location or not, on initiatives to promote alternative fueled vehicle use and expansion of refueling infrastructure. Sec. 8. Definitions. For the purpose of this order, the terms "agency," "alternative fueled vehicle," and "alternative fuel" have the same meaning given such terms in sections 151 and 301 of the Act. Sec. 9. Executive Order 12844. This order supersedes Executive Order 12844. Sec. 10. Judicial Review. This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit or trust responsibility, substantive or procedural, enforceable by a party against the United States, its agencies or instrumentalities, its officers or employees, or any other person. WILLIAM J. CLINTON THE WHITE HOUSE, December 13, 1996. # # # From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 15 00:20:54 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA10431; Sun, 15 Dec 1996 00:20:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 00:20:21 -0800 Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 00:20:06 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Create ball lightning w/ kitchen microwave oven?] In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19961215115329.217f1994@po.pacific.net.sg> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"5OL9d2.0.tY2.3Jxio"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/761 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Mpower wrote: > Anyone here done this yet ? > Yep! Nada. The candle did nothing, just burned quietly. This in a microwave oven with no rotating table. I note in other ovens that sometimes the rotating table acts to move the object under test through RF maxima, which creates much larger effects. I didn't work with the candle for very long, so perhaps there is a trick to it which I lacked the patience to discover. I then tried forcing some arcs through carbon soot by making up some soot (glass beaker held in flame from burning turpentine). The papers by Corum suggest that BL is a sort of plasma/aerogel composite, made of carbon aerogel, so I was trying to add some carbon to a microwave arc directly, rather than depending on the candle flame. Two aluminum foil fragments were placed into gentle contact, with some soot placed on the contact, then exposed to RF. Arcs erupted, but no BL appeared, and the arc seemed to blow the soot away rather than encorporate it. A similar setup occurs naturally when frozen cubed carrots are cooked. The carrot pieces form short dipoles with high resistance from the small contact area between them. Microwave arcs appear, carbonized carrot globs are the result! No BL though. Different ovens have different wattage ratings. Maybe the oven I used (500W?) is too small. Also, I believe that modern ovens have some sort of nonlinear element in the magnetron which lowers the power when there is no load in the oven cavity. So, perhaps an older oven will create "hotspots" of much higher RF voltage when there is no large volume of food (water) present. And perhaps the candle makes a difference. A smoky, sooty candle might produce results, where a clean-burning one does not. Or perhaps the opposite, if it should turn out that *too much* carbon fouls up the physics. There is a well-known report from Japan where the output of a 2.5KW oven was routed through a waveguide made of metal mesh, and the experimenters were able to trigger plasma ball formation. These I think are simply electrodeless arc discharges, which I would expect to form at nodes in the waveguide, acting sort of like a resistive shorting-bar and plugging the waveguide while absorbing the oven output. I'd expect such a phenomena to instantly wink out when the RF was turned off. Maybe a similar phenomena can exist in the oven cavity rather than in a small waveguide having higher energy density. If so, this probably has little to do with BL or Corum carbon aerogel fireballs. More fun: see "Unwise Microwave Oven Experiments" page at: http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/microexp.html .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 15 11:38:23 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA25653; Sun, 15 Dec 1996 11:37:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 11:37:08 -0800 Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 20:39:43 +0100 Message-Id: <199612151939.UAA21107@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: New theory article about Flux-Gate generator available ! Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Resent-Message-ID: <"6NBj4.0.hG6.XD5jo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/763 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, my friend Dieter Bauer has published now his brand new theory article about the flux-gate generator from Brown-Ecklin-Bedini. It shows, that this generator can be designed according to conventional theory of electrodynamics. It is proven in this article, that overunity efficiency is possible ! Please download all the article, which is in 3 parts at: http://www.overunity.de/theory.htm The access is non-anonymous, so you have to give us your email address, if you want to read the article. The password for the pages will be emailed automatically to you. Regards, Stefan. email: harti@harti.de From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 15 12:27:45 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA01673; Sun, 15 Dec 1996 12:25:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 12:25:35 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sun, 15 Dec 96 23:04:44 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Clinton's order of December 13 Lines: 18 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BlcCC.0._P.-w5jo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/764 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: American People! I see that you know what you do. Your President published "Federal Alternative Fueled Vehicle Leadership" paper. According to this plan in 1999 75% of american vehicles would be powered by alternating fuel instead of oil. It is something great like new period of civilization. If fuel is not an oil and cost of fuel is low it means real Freedom! I hope to see something like american Order of Dec.13 in Russian Parlament sometime in future. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 15 16:44:23 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA04502; Sun, 15 Dec 1996 10:15:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 10:15:09 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961215171352.00761b14@bahnhof.se> X-Sender: david@bahnhof.se X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 18:10:00 +0100 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: David Jonsson Subject: Re: wasser thread Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"iFf-22.0.o31.n_3jo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/762 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:37 1996-07-27 -0700, you wrote: >I have observed what I believe to be a natural demonstration >of the wasser thread. On two different occasions in the Very interesting. Do you know anything about the work of Viktor Schauberger? David David Jonsson Phone +46-18-24 51 52 Fax +46-8-681 20 66 Cellular GSM +46-706-339487 E-mail david@bahnhof.se Uppsala, Sweden Web: http://bahnhof.se/~david Postgiro 499 40 54-7 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 15 17:19:08 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA27917; Sun, 15 Dec 1996 17:17:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 17:17:14 -0800 Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 02:19:46 +0100 Message-Id: <199612160119.CAA21925@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Flux-Gate generator article also has pratical use ! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Resent-Message-ID: <"r_zRs1.0.1q6.MCAjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/765 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, the article my friend Dieter Bauer has published about his theory about the flux-gate generator from Brown-Ecklin-Bedini also has many diagramms and drawings in it, so it is not only theory , but also shows how to practically build such a device and OPTIMIZE it to get a real huge output ! I bet, that is one of the best latest works done so far on these magnetic flux-gate generators ! It really shows, that this generator can be designed so that overunity efficiency is possible ! Please download all the article, which is in 3 parts at: http://www.overunity.de/theory.htm The access is non-anonymous, so you have to give us your email address, if you want to read the article. The password for the pages will be emailed automatically to you, if you fill out the order form for the password ! Regards, Stefan. email: harti@harti.de From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 15 17:31:05 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA30347; Sun, 15 Dec 1996 17:27:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 17:27:07 -0800 Message-ID: <01BBE9E3.A8829A00@ivic-dyn49.ivic.net> From: Ivan J Korsund To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: wasser thread Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 17:22:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BBE9E3.A89362E0" Resent-Message-ID: <"97OZN2.0.jP7.OLAjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/766 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE9E3.A89362E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't know of his (Viktor Schauberger) work. Does he have any = reasonable way of explaining such phenomenon. I felt that the = explanation proposed by William Beaty to be quite reasonable. I would love to hear other explanations though, = since I have very little knowledge on the subject.=20 Ivan J Korsund ikorsund@ivic.net -----Original Message----- From: David Jonsson [SMTP:david@bahnhof.se] Sent: Sunday, December 15, 1996 9:10 AM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: wasser thread=20 At 09:37 1996-07-27 -0700, you wrote: >I have observed what I believe to be a natural demonstration =20 >of the wasser thread. On two different occasions in the =20 Very interesting. Do you know anything about the work of Viktor = Schauberger? 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Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA04053; Sun, 15 Dec 1996 21:02:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 21:02:29 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Clinton's order of December 13 Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 05:02:18 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32b5d101.19340940@mail.netspace.net.au> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99g/32.339 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Sy0R11.0.B_.YVDjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/767 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 15 Dec 96 23:04:44 +0300, Alexander V. Frolov wrote: >American People! I see that you know what you do. Your President published >"Federal Alternative Fueled Vehicle Leadership" paper. According to this >plan in 1999 75% of american vehicles would be powered by alternating fuel I got the impression that this was only 75% of american government fleet vehicles. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 15 22:01:16 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA12315; Sun, 15 Dec 1996 21:59:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 21:59:24 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <199612151845_MC1-D23-C4DC@compuserve.com> Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Mon, 16 Dec 96 08:54:36 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: time and mass and heat correlation Lines: 53 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"n6irF2.0.H03.wKEjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/768 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Perhaps I have not well knowledge of English and my statements are sound in some different from real russian sense of it. Pavel Ouspensky wrote about heat and time correlation. Please, look Ch.10 New model of Universe, page 402 in russian edition. Then, p.408 "physicists did not understood that electron belong to other world"; page 418 "Sir Oliver Lodg consider the density of ether in billion times higher than density of the water... and mater is only empty space, bubbles in a mass of the ether"; after this place author described theory of Einstein; then Ouspensky reproduce text of E.S.Edington about sense of energy and curvature of space; then p.439 about 6-dimensional space-time; p.451 about velocity as a property of space, velocity have a sense of a angle; p.453 "molecules are 6-dimensional: 3 spatial and 3 temporal dimensions; p.454 by Ouspensky dimensions are depend of the sizes of object. In this point I must add that it is property of a space that have certain curvature. If the same object is placed in space that have other curvature the properties of the object are changed; p.459 about motion and matter; p.462 "electrons are particles of time but not a particles of a space", electrons have more time inside of themself than they have a space inside if themself. On the base of above I made conclusions about time-motion-heat correlation. Also I hope that you saw the book of japan physicist R.Utiama "The theory of Relativity", p.92-93 in russian edition, F. 16.2' - F.16.5 he expalne that mass of the body is increasing if there is heat input into the body. If you can connect mass and time notions, you'll make conclusion about time and heat correlation. Also there are many russian papers on the same. I am not a proffy. All researches are made by my own plan. You can take the book we published as Proceedings of the conference. Cost is USD 60. Way for payment is Western Union transfer on my name, in St.-Petersburg or bank transfer in my account: Incombank, Moscow, St.Petersburg Branch, Branch N 200089082, SWIFT: INCORUMMSPB, Russia, account N 671070463, Mr. Alexander V. Frolov Best regards, Alexander V. Frolov --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 16 02:52:51 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA01633; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 02:51:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 02:51:45 -0800 Message-ID: <32B5204E.54B9@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 20:41:26 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New theory article about Flux-Gate generator available ! References: <199612151939.UAA21107@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EYfq_.0.FP.wcIjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/769 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Hi, > > my friend Dieter Bauer has published now his brand new theory > article about the flux-gate generator from Brown-Ecklin-Bedini. > > It shows, that this generator can be designed according to conventional > theory of electrodynamics. > > It is proven in this article, that overunity efficiency > is possible ! > > Please download all the article, which is in 3 parts > at: > > http://www.overunity.de/theory.htm > > The access is non-anonymous, so you have to give us your email > address, if you want to read the article. > The password for the pages will be emailed automatically to you. > > Regards, Stefan. > email: harti@harti.de Hi Stephan, Just read your flux-gate letter. Would suggest your friend should investigate the changing flux in the core as the reluctance of the flux path alters. My experience in induction alternators (your flux gate) shows that as the flux increases (flux path improves) and as current flows in the output coil a counter flux is generated as normal laws expect. This counter flux reduces the total flux in the core and reduced the flux flowing through the flux gate. This reduced flux gate flux reduces the attraction that would be expected if no current flowed in the output coil. As the flux gate moves away from the point of max flux, the opposite occurs and attraction is increased. Sorry to say, but mother nature is not fooled and energy is conserved. Been there, done that. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 16 03:01:48 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA03306; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 03:01:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 03:01:03 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 06:00:29 -0500 Message-ID: <961216060028_2085555617@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : LIAG document Resent-Message-ID: <"QyI492.0.Yp.klIjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/770 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dans un courrier date du 14/12/1996 19:51:17, vous avez ecrit : << Dear Jean-Louis, Perhaps you might find the attached document (LIAG.TXT) interesting. Sorry it's not in French. --Bob Dorman >> Dear Bob, Thank you for your interesting paper on LIAG Generator, it's a very interesting proposal for avoiding or reducing significantly Lenz Law effect to enhance efficiency. I think that you have made experimentals tests and measures of its efficiency, is these results may be readable in electronic format ?. I studie now a very good document of W.D.Bauer on "The Brown-Ecklin generator", you could find it ont Stephan Hartmann server at : http://www.overunity.de/theory.htm.... Speak to you soon. Jean-Louis Naudin Email: JNaudin509@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 16 09:08:55 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA26807; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 09:05:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 09:05:33 -0800 Message-ID: <32B58052.3B68@inu.net> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:01:06 -0600 From: Bob Rutherford X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Create ball lightning w/ kitchen microwave oven?] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ouC1R.0.WY6.C5Ojo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/771 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William Beaty wrote: > > On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Mpower wrote: > > > Anyone here done this yet ? > > > > Yep! Nada. > > The candle did nothing, just burned quietly. This in a microwave oven > with no rotating table. I note in other ovens that sometimes the rotating > table acts to move the object under test through RF maxima, which creates > much larger effects. I didn't work with the candle for very long, so > perhaps there is a trick to it which I lacked the patience to discover. > > I then tried forcing some arcs through carbon soot by making up some soot > (glass beaker held in flame from burning turpentine). The papers by Corum > suggest that BL is a sort of plasma/aerogel composite, made of carbon > aerogel, so I was trying to add some carbon to a microwave arc directly, > rather than depending on the candle flame. Two aluminum foil fragments > were placed into gentle contact, with some soot placed on the contact, > then exposed to RF. Arcs erupted, but no BL appeared, and the arc seemed > to blow the soot away rather than encorporate it. > > A similar setup occurs naturally when frozen cubed carrots are cooked. > The carrot pieces form short dipoles with high resistance from the small > contact area between them. Microwave arcs appear, carbonized carrot globs > are the result! No BL though. > > Different ovens have different wattage ratings. Maybe the oven I used > (500W?) is too small. Also, I believe that modern ovens have some sort of > nonlinear element in the magnetron which lowers the power when there is no > load in the oven cavity. So, perhaps an older oven will create "hotspots" > of much higher RF voltage when there is no large volume of food (water) > present. > > And perhaps the candle makes a difference. A smoky, sooty candle might > produce results, where a clean-burning one does not. Or perhaps the > opposite, if it should turn out that *too much* carbon fouls up the > physics. > > There is a well-known report from Japan where the output of a 2.5KW oven > was routed through a waveguide made of metal mesh, and the experimenters > were able to trigger plasma ball formation. These I think are simply > electrodeless arc discharges, which I would expect to form at nodes in the > waveguide, acting sort of like a resistive shorting-bar and plugging the > waveguide while absorbing the oven output. I'd expect such a phenomena to > instantly wink out when the RF was turned off. Maybe a similar phenomena > can exist in the oven cavity rather than in a small waveguide having > higher energy density. If so, this probably has little to do with BL or > Corum carbon aerogel fireballs. > > More fun: see "Unwise Microwave Oven Experiments" page at: > http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/microexp.html > > .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. > William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 > EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ > Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page Some candle wicks have a thin metal wire in them. This might make a diff.? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 16 09:37:39 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA02150; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 09:35:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 09:35:54 -0800 Message-ID: <32B541A1.5A70@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:35:20 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sharing the Knowledge Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DKI-Y2.0.EX.pXOjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/772 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: >To spread quickly the thinking process in the world, I suggest to provide >this kind of documents : >- an "Easy make-it-yourself experiment" document to prove existence of Free >Energy >- a "Build yourself a Free Energy generator" document I am amazed by the current state of "Free Energy" research in general. Much time is spent revisiting designs which have been shown not to provide clearly over unity operation, while other designs remain largely unknown. Clearly the best evidence for true over unity operation is evidenced by a device that provides ANY energy output, without external energy input, or chemical batteries. Such designs do exist, and one is available on Bill's web site. I think that the community at large would be far better off if a list of known devices and designs were complied, with as complete documentation as practical. Each design should also be given a pair of documents, one each from a proponent, and from a detractor, stating why this device is, or is not a true over unity design with all the actual test data and referances, etc. Such a master referance avaiable on the web could save researchers countless time currently wasted in finding information, and duplicating devices which do not work. Such a referance would also serve to direct the limited resources of the field as a whole towards devices which show promise for true over unity operation. At the very least, one of the organizations should make such a master referances avaialble for a fee. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 16 11:53:52 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA05944; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:51:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:51:57 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961216115142.009d18ac@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: Epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:51:43 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: LIAG, Ecklin, demystified Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"WjpB43.0.aS1.OXQjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/774 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: <------------- View the below drawing with monospaced font and this screen width -----------------> It depends on the gap. For example take two permanent magnets in S-S configuration and iron plate like this. NNNNSSSS SSSSNNNN LEGEND: NNNNSSSS a permanent magnet with North & South oles IIIIIIII a soft iron plate (magnetic shield) CCCCCCCC an electromagnetic coil (used later) I I I I I (iron plate moving up) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- The iron plate will be pulled into the gap between the magnets like this I I NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN I I (iron plate moving up) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- But if the gap between the magnets is LARGER the iron plate will stop here NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN I I I I (iron plate moving up) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- If the magnets are oriented S-N the iron plate will also stop here because iron plate is equally attracted to North or South poles: I I NNNNSSSS I NNNNSSSS I I (iron plate moving up) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- **************************************************************************** ********* If we now consider this cycle ____________________________________________________________________________ _________ Both magnets attract the iron plate into the gap NNNNSSSS SSSSNNNN I I I I I (iron plate moving up) Fig #1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- I I NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN I I (iron plate moving up) Fig #2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- One of the magnets is removed or annihilated. I I NNNNSSSS I I I (iron plate moving up) Fig #3 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- I I I I I (iron plate moving up) NNNNSSSS Fig #4 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- We will notice that the iron plate gains more energy getting pulled between the magnets (Fig #1 & #2) then it looses during the back drag (Fig #3 & #4) because one of the magnets has been removed. One might immediately say here: "...wait a minute you just had to expend energy removing one of the magnets..." and you would be correct in the above case. HOWEVER if we were using a coil instead of the magnet we could turn it off (and the magnetic field it produces) without expending any energy So what exactly happens if we substitute on of the magnet with a coil: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- At the beginning (Fig #5) the coil sees the maximum intensity of the south pole produced by the permanent magnet. As the iron plate is pulled into the gap between the permanent magnet and the coil, the iron shield starts REDIRECTING more and more of the magnetic field (splitting the field) produced by the permanent magnet AWAY from the coil. The net result of this is that the coil starts seeing less and less of the south pole (provided by the magnet). According to the Lenz law if the circuit of the coil is closed, the coil will try to resist this change in the strength of the aforementioned south pole by circulating electric current through its windings in such a way that the coil will PRODUCE its own south pole in order to keep the intensity of the south pole near the coil exactly what it was before the iron plate (shield) started moving into the gap. The coil acts as an ultimate conservative :-) The CRUCIAL effect is that this magnetic south pole created by the coil will also attract the iron plate into the gap between the magnet and the coil just like it was happening in Fig #1. A south pole is a south pole, regardless whether it is produced by a magnet or a coil, right ?. So the moving iron plate will be attracted into the gap by BOTH the magnet and the coil analogously to Fig #1 NNNNSSSS CCCCCCCC Coil closed I I I I I (iron plate moving up) #5 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- I I NNNNSSSS I CCCCCCCC Coil closed I I (iron plate moving up) #6 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- I I NNNNSSSS I CCCCCCCC Coil open I I (iron plate moving up) #7 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- I I I I I (iron plate moving up) NNNNSSSS CCCCCCCC Coil open #8 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- In Fig #6 the iron plate will shield the coil from all of the intensity of the south pole created by the permanent magnet and if the closed coil was superconductive and didn't have any resistive losses it now WOULD be producing a hypothetic south pole of exactly the same intensity as the south pole produced by the permanent magnet in Fig #5. At the same time, the permanent magnet in Fig #6 would also be shielded by the iron plate from the hypothetical field produced by the coil and would produce the same intensity of the south pole as it did before in Fig #5. For best shielding results a double iron plate (with gap between plates) should be used. We could say we "split" the original magnetic filed by the iron plate "axe". In Fig #7 & #8 we open the coil windings which makes the coil behave as if it WASN'T THERE at all. This is analogous to annihilating the permanent magnet in Fig #3. Now the iron plate can move away (under its inertia) from the permanent magnet with 2 times less back drag than if the coil was left closed. This switching-off of the coil allows the moving iron plate to escape from the gap with more energy than it had before. One might say that the switching action introduces nonconservativness into the system and introduces order into nature. Order = negentropy = energy This cycle can repeat indefinitely (perpetually) if the iron shield is moving cyclically in a large circular path through the magnet-coil gap just like in the Ecklin, LIAG, Kromray, Bedini generators. The coil should have as little resistance as possible in order to have the maximum magnetic flux induced in it. It should be switched with low resistance relay or a MOSFET transistor with very low RdsON (ie. N-ch MegaFET MOSFETs by Harris semiconductor). The gate of the MOSFET could be energized by a high resistance, high voltage (not over 20V) coil coaxially wound with the main coil. No exotic sensors are necessary here since one can take advantage of the property that the electric current through the coil moves one way when the iron plate is approaching the gap and OTHER way when the plate moves away. Yes, a diode could be used but a diode need 0.6 volts to operate and the low resistance coil (means thick wire, few turns) will not produce anything close to 0.6V but it will produce many Amps (high current). Strong magnets, small gap, laminated or powdered (to combat eddy currents) cores and the moving plate would improve efficiency. When the coil is said to be closed it doesn't necessarily mean shorted. It can be connected to a practical load to do useful work. The interesting property of this system is that the more current you draw from the coil the more energy you extract and the faster the iron plate moves (escapes from the gap). If you don't short the coil or hook up a load to it during the iron plate approach phase the whole thing will stop working and will behave conventionally. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 16 12:51:44 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA05753; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:49:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:49:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199612162048.PAA12185@transfer.stratus.com> From: Charlie Hodgson Date: Mon, 16 Dec 96 15:44:58 -0500 To: Epitaxy Subject: Re: LIAG, Ecklin, demystified In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19961216115142.009d18ac@mail.localaccess.com> Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.22 (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"nocsp.0.oP1.INRjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/775 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In <3.0.32.19961216115142.009d18ac@mail.localaccess.com>, on 12/16/96 at 11:51 AM, Epitaxy said: ><------------- View the below drawing with monospaced font and this >screen width -----------------> Either your mailer or the list has reformated the message to 70 columns. Junging from some messages I've seen on the list I supect it's your mailer doing it. If possible, send it "Quoted-Printable". This will prevent wrapping. Charlie -- Does Microsoft mean "small and limp"? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 16 13:38:14 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA05753; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:49:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:49:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199612162048.PAA12185@transfer.stratus.com> From: Charlie Hodgson Date: Mon, 16 Dec 96 15:44:58 -0500 To: Epitaxy Subject: Re: LIAG, Ecklin, demystified In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19961216115142.009d18ac@mail.localaccess.com> Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.22 (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"nocsp.0.oP1.INRjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/775 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In <3.0.32.19961216115142.009d18ac@mail.localaccess.com>, on 12/16/96 at 11:51 AM, Epitaxy said: ><------------- View the below drawing with monospaced font and this >screen width -----------------> Either your mailer or the list has reformated the message to 70 columns. Junging from some messages I've seen on the list I supect it's your mailer doing it. If possible, send it "Quoted-Printable". This will prevent wrapping. Charlie -- Does Microsoft mean "small and limp"? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 16 14:03:58 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA06833; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:01:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:01:25 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <3.0.32.19961216115142.009d18ac@mail.localaccess.com> Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Mon, 16 Dec 96 23:35:46 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Ecklin Lines: 20 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-oPtU2.0.Ig1.oQSjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/776 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I think that there is some difference between Ecklin's device and other named above. Metal plate in Ecklin's devide is a shield between two opposite directed magnets. Plate remove repulsion between magnets. Rotor that move this plate accelerated when plate is moving to magnets (since gragient of B is positive) and rotor is decelerating when the plate is moving from magnets (since gradB is negative). Total result is zero. Rotation of plate is free and very small power of primary source that move the plate can produce big power in output. Output power depend on permanent magnets quality. I think that it is necessary to move this experiment in schools. Our sons must know truth about possibility to make overunity. Are you know where is inventor Dr. Ecklin? --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 16 14:12:08 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA09304; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:11:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:11:13 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:10:33 -0500 Message-ID: <961216170227_1619400592@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Re: Sharing the Knowledge Resent-Message-ID: <"rHnP42.0.HH2.0aSjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/777 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From : Jean-Louis Naudin To : bshannon@tiac.net, on 16/12/1996 19:48:15, wrote : << Clearly the best evidence for true over unity operation is evidenced by a device that provides ANY energy output, without external energy input, or chemical batteries. Such designs do exist, and one is available on Bill's web site. I think that the community at large would be far better off if a list of known devices and designs were complied, with as complete documentation as practical. Each design should also be given a pair of documents, one each from a proponent, and from a detractor, stating why this device is, or is not a true over unity design with all the actual test data and referances, etc. >> Dear Bob Shannon, I am glad that you share my opinion.... You said "Such designs do exist, and one is available on Bill's web site." could you tell me more about this kind of device ?....Does It really produce overunity ??? Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin Email : JNaudin509@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 16 14:25:09 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA11919; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:23:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:23:36 -0800 Message-ID: <32B5858D.7FFC@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:23:26 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mKcab.0.4w2.clSjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/778 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: josephnewman@earthlink.net wrote: >One of the most significant discoveries of the human race was made in the >classroom as a result of a student arranging the above-described-test >BACKWARDS to the original directions provided by his professor, Oersted. >The student arranged the MAGNET PARALLEL to the CONDUCTOR WIRE and when >Oersted completed the circuit to the battery, INSTANTLY THE MAGNETIC >PIVOTED TO RIGHT ANGLES with the CONDUCTOR. I had not heard this version of the history of this discovery before. Could you please provide referances for this accounting of this discovery? I had thought that the establishment refused to see any connection between electrostatics and magnetic fields, but I may be quite wrong here. >Fact: I had not pursued my work in electromagnetism with this purpose (of >unifying the fields) in mind. To the contrary --- I was totally committed >to finding the TRUTH about MAGNETISM and therefore in my honesty, as I made >new discoveries, I automatically applied them to providing answers to >general mechanical questions in science for which there were NO MECHANICAL >EXPLANATION: >6) Why, mechanically, does light sometimes behave as a "particle" and at >other times as a "wave?" Light appears as either a particle, or a wave depending on how we make the measurment. It never appears randomly as one or the other in the same measurment. An experiment that shows particle-like behavior will at all times show the particle nature, and an experiment that shows wave-like behavior will always show the wave-like nature of light. >Example: Consider the question of why light behaves as both a "particle" >and a "wave." The gyroscopic composition of all matter is a real, >mechanical, gyroscopic particle and reacts to pressure. Light acts as a >particle travelling through larger to smaller holes, except that with >extremely small holes light mechanically acts as a wave. Of course, just >like fluids or gases travelling through extremely small holes, the pressure >increases. So too with light. The pressure causes the gyroscopic >particles of light to mechanically act as a wave. [Refer to pages 171 to >179 of my book.] At exactly what size "hole" do we see the transition from particle-like to wave-like behavior? Is the only differance between experiments that show wave-like, or particle-like behavior the size of the "holes" used in any given experiment? Do all experiments that show wave-like behavior raise the "pressure" of the light in some way, while all experiments that show particle-like behavior do not? Is it possible to conduct an experiment with the photoelectric effect where we lower the pressure of light, and then detect wave-like behavior? Is it possible to perform an interferance experiment where the pressure is lowered, and observe particle like behavior? >The chances that my work --- through years of dedicated study, thought, >experimentation, and application of a single mechanical explanation to >numerous unexplained facts of science by the use of the known laws of the >gyroscope applied to the gyroscopic-particle-composition of all matter --- >is only an accident, especially in view of the fact that there is NO >mechanical explanation provided for these numerous observations (but only >mathematical observations of their RESULTS) .... is, as the statisticians >of NASA, as stated by Dr. Robert Smith, said: "THE CHANCES OF JOSEPH NEWMAN >BEING WRONG WERE ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE." May I ask what the current position of Newman Energy Products is on the video taped demonstration of Mr. Newman's Two Coil Experiment? It has been claimed that this experiment shows only classical phenomena, while Mr. Newman has claimed that this experiment shows something quite different. What's the honest truth here? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 16 14:33:33 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA13389; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:30:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:30:12 -0800 Message-ID: <32B5871C.CB4@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:30:04 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sharing the Knowledge. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_FeUw2.0.5H3.orSjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/779 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jean-Louis Naudin wrote: >Dear Bob Shannon, >I am glad that you share my opinion.... >You said "Such designs do exist, and one is available on Bill's web site." >could you tell me more about this kind of device ?....Does It really produce >overunity ??? >Sincerely, >Jean-Louis Naudin If you get any output at all, it's over unity, as there is no input power at all. I must say in advance, that the power output is small, but useable. This device is described in the article on the Barkhausen Effect Scalar Detector on Bill's web site. PS. Bill, please resend your snail mail address, and I'll see you receive plenty of core materials. I'm back! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 16 14:45:51 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA18078; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:42:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:42:53 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:41:36 -0500 Message-ID: <961216173941_776448438@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Resent-Message-ID: <"8mKUa.0.tP4.W1Tjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/780 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 16 14:47:00 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA18406; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:44:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:44:09 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:42:48 -0500 Message-ID: <961216174116_168674277@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Resent-Message-ID: <"g-RXE1.0.AV4.g2Tjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/781 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>Note: If one learns from one's mistakes, then the scientific community of 1820 should have been rendered HUMBLE by its error. History has proven that THEY WERE NOT so humbled! I say this because members of the scientific community continued to make the same, BIASED MISTAKES --- BACK-TO-BACK!>>> Well aren't you biased for believing that your "unified field theory" is the reason your device works (Or is SUPPOSED to work)? There can be many, MANY other reasons why it could work that don't involve a unified field theory. - Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 16 15:42:43 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA02388; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 15:41:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 15:41:13 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:42:04 -0600 To: bshannon@tiac.net From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"koWo71.0.8b.NuTjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/782 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >josephnewman@earthlink.net wrote: > >>One of the most significant discoveries of the human race was made in the >>classroom as a result of a student arranging the above-described-test >>BACKWARDS to the original directions provided by his professor, Oersted. > >>The student arranged the MAGNET PARALLEL to the CONDUCTOR WIRE and when >>Oersted completed the circuit to the battery, INSTANTLY THE MAGNETIC >>PIVOTED TO RIGHT ANGLES with the CONDUCTOR. > >I had not heard this version of the history of this discovery before. >Could you please provide referances for this accounting of this discovery? >I had thought that the establishment refused to see any connection between >electrostatics and magnetic fields, but I may be quite wrong here. > You are correct when you state that the establishment refused to see any connection between electrostatics and magnetic fields (up to the time of Oersted's having to reckon with his student's "goof"...which is why Joseph Newman wrote the following: "The scientists of 1820 were so biased in their pious teachings of the time, e.g., "There is NO connection between MAGNETISM and ELECTRICITY!", that they would not even place a magnet parallel with a copper wire and make a circuit. "The reason that they would not do so is because they were so biased in their view that a conductor should behave exactly like conventional magnetic materials (such as iron) that they would only place a magnet at right angles to a conductor and then make a circuit to a battery. As a result, the magnet remained at right angles to the conductor. Triumphantly, the professor at the time (such as Oersted) would tell young students: 'See -- there is NO connection between magnetism and electricity.'" Oersted's original experiment was intended to PRECISELY PROVE that there was NO connection between magnetism and electricity. Thanks to the student's "error," Oersted was forced to re-examine this false premise. > >>Fact: I had not pursued my work in electromagnetism with this purpose (of >>unifying the fields) in mind. To the contrary --- I was totally committed >>to finding the TRUTH about MAGNETISM and therefore in my honesty, as I made >>new discoveries, I automatically applied them to providing answers to >>general mechanical questions in science for which there were NO MECHANICAL >>EXPLANATION: > > > >>6) Why, mechanically, does light sometimes behave as a "particle" and at >>other times as a "wave?" > >Light appears as either a particle, or a wave depending on how we make >the measurment. It never appears randomly as one or the other in the same >measurment. An experiment that shows particle-like behavior will at all >times show the particle nature, and an experiment that shows wave-like >behavior will always show the wave-like nature of light. > > >>Example: Consider the question of why light behaves as both a "particle" >>and a "wave." The gyroscopic composition of all matter is a real, >>mechanical, gyroscopic particle and reacts to pressure. Light acts as a >>particle travelling through larger to smaller holes, except that with >>extremely small holes light mechanically acts as a wave. Of course, just >>like fluids or gases travelling through extremely small holes, the pressure >>increases. So too with light. The pressure causes the gyroscopic >>particles of light to mechanically act as a wave. [Refer to pages 171 to >>179 of my book.] > > >At exactly what size "hole" do we see the transition from particle-like >to wave-like behavior? Is the only differance between experiments that show >wave-like, or particle-like behavior the size of the "holes" used in any >given experiment? Do all experiments that show wave-like behavior raise >the "pressure" of the light in some way, while all experiments that show >particle-like behavior do not? > >Is it possible to conduct an experiment with the photoelectric effect where >we lower the pressure of light, and then detect wave-like behavior? > >Is it possible to perform an interferance experiment where the pressure is >lowered, and observe particle like behavior? Question with respect to the wave/particle aspects of light: (so that one may know with what you are or not already familiar): Have you had an opportunity to read Joseph Newman's book? > > >>The chances that my work --- through years of dedicated study, thought, >>experimentation, and application of a single mechanical explanation to >>numerous unexplained facts of science by the use of the known laws of the >>gyroscope applied to the gyroscopic-particle-composition of all matter --- >>is only an accident, especially in view of the fact that there is NO >>mechanical explanation provided for these numerous observations (but only >>mathematical observations of their RESULTS) .... is, as the statisticians >>of NASA, as stated by Dr. Robert Smith, said: "THE CHANCES OF JOSEPH NEWMAN >>BEING WRONG WERE ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE." > > >May I ask what the current position of Newman Energy Products is on the >video taped demonstration of Mr. Newman's Two Coil Experiment? > > >It has been claimed that this experiment shows only classical phenomena, >while Mr. Newman has claimed that this experiment shows something quite >different. > >What's the honest truth here? To Bob Shannon: Since you have brought up the Two Coil Experiment, I will hence separately send two collections of emails relative to this and other (related) areas of interest which may better enable one to understand this discussion. These are respectively entitled, "Email Interchanges, Part A" and "Email Interchanges, Part B." Sincerely, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 josephnewman@earthlink.net http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 16 15:43:14 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA02558; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 15:41:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 15:41:57 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:42:32 -0600 To: bshannon@tiac.net From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Email Interchanges, Part B Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"bTOO62.0.gd._uTjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/784 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Email Interchanges, Part B Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 16:49:05 -0800 From: Bobby Matherne Organization: 21st Century Education, Inc MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Evan Soule Subject: Two Coil Experiment & Fleming's Rule >Evan, you wrote: > Thanks for your insightful comments and suggestions!! > > Perhaps the gyroscopic particles between my ears are not "operating at top > speed today".... because I am not grasping "with full resonance" the > significance of the subtle semantic difference you are discussing. It > seems like I begin to understand your point, then I think I understand your > point --- then it seems to elude me upon further reflection. [This may be > a case of making something more complicated than it needs to be! :-) ] Yes, maybe on both our parts, but we must start where we are. In definition 1, comes from1, I mean synchronously in the usual meaning, including inherent delays. What classical EM theory (CEMT) says about the field coming from the current in the turns is simply a statement of Ampere's Law, without implying an understanding of the mechanism or substrate that underlies the connection. It is a statement of connection, if you will: Increase turns connected to more magnetic field. A short hand way of saying this is "the magnetic field comes from the input current". My insight was that the very reason we were taught to think of magnetic fields as "imaginary" lines of force is because we knew nothing more and therefore we were not speak of the underlying reality. Pretend they are "lines of force" and you can do practical work. Pretend the "magnetic field comes from the input current" and that will remind you of Ampere's Law. See my point: it was pretending all the down. Thus my caveat: don't use the pretend statements as if they were intended to be statements about an underlying reality. I assure they were not. Have people tended to treat them as tho they were statements of underlying reality? Certainly. That's why we're having this discussion. Now let's get to the next pretend statement: comes from2. When Joe says the magnetic field (i.e., his gyroscopic particles) comes from2 the mass of the conductor, he's merely calling attention to his insight about the underlying substrate of his model of the origin of the magnetic field, a model that has no equivalence in physics as far as I know. If you accept Joe's model, you would design motors with more copper because the gyroscopic particles comes from2 the copper. If you don't know about Joe's model (pre 1980 reality of physics), you design motors to minimize the cost while creating the same magnetic field. You use less copper and more current to achieve the same field. Joe has been trying to say this insight of his (gyros from copper, use more copper, less current) in many ways, all of them rather clumsy, up until now. And his words have offended engineer types who thought he was claiming Ampere's Law was wrong, etc. He can state his insight directly, with your capable help, from now on. > Do you actually mean "synchronously"? --- does this exclude a time delay -- > however miniscule? If "A" happens (input current) then a VERY short time > later "B" happens (a generated magnetic field) --- WITHIN THE SAME SYSTEM > --- could one not conclude that "A" may be postulated to be a/the "source" > for "B"? I hope I've already answered your question above, but let me add this: changing to "source" from "comes from" doesn't change the problem, it just makes it harder for one to use "source" in definition 1. [If you had used "cause of" instead of "source of" def1 gets easier, but def2 gets harder. See the problem. Comes from is actually a perfectly ambiguous representation of Ampere's Law and Joe's theory. Thus the problem.] I hope by now this is getting clearer. We are still far from how to explain this to Joe, up until now. Once you and I can agree on the principles, then I'd be glad to help you with coming up with a statement or a way of stating Joe's principle, if that is necessary. I'm not sure it is, as long as you recognize and know how to deal with the confusions that Joe creates with his way of talking about it. I doubt if Einstein would have gotten very far with his theory of relativity if he had constantly attacked Newtonian mechanics the way Joe attacks classical EM theory. That theory may be due for an upgrade, but its equations will continue to hold no matter what Joe does. New possibilities for energy production will arise from Joe's upgrade to our understanding of the EM fields, but its equations will still hold. > > And, on the other hand: in definition 2 above the concept of "source" > seems more evident --- "originating from" could certainly be synonomous > with the word "source." I hope by now you understand the futility of trying analyze what I said by using synonyms. When you use "originating from" you make it easy to talk Joe's underlying theory, but difficult to talk classical EM theory because CEMT does not claim that the field "originates from" the turns of wire and its current, but simply states a relationship between the two. I spent many years with many different teachers explaining how to understand the magnetic field and every one to a man said, "we know the magnetic field grows as the current or the turns increase, and that's all we can say about it." > > I do see that you are endeavoring to draw a very fine and important line of > semantic distinction here --- I just want to be certain that I understand > what you are saying. Once you understand the fine line it will become broader to you. Like your ink drawings: those fine lines you draw must seem broader to you than they do to me. > Now, as my interpretation of what Joe would say: the input voltage > catalytically causes the atoms of the copper coil to become aligned and to > therefore "release" their gyroscopic particles beyond the boundaries of the > individual copper atoms. And the greater the number of copper atoms in the > system's configuration (coil) the greater the (kinetic) release of > gyroscopic particles to form the resultant magnetic field. No problem here. If those gyros are tiny vortices of energy that are like tiny tornadoes spun off of a big tornado due to a crosswind (gross analogy), then we have begun to bridge the gap of explaining how mass can be turned into energy by a magnetic field. It's not mass coming off the copper atoms, but energy vortices that flow in a toroidal shape out one side of the coil of wire and into the other side. Oh, and by the way: just like every magnetic field is a toroidal (donut) shape, so is every gyroscopic particle. That was a new insight that came to me since our last post. It's toroids all the way down. That's why when you place one bar magnetic on top of another it becomes one magnetic field. The torus just continues out the end of the top magnet into the bottom of the bottom magnet. A tornado on top of another tornado becomes one big tornado. > Regarding your discussion of the composition of the gyroscopic particle: > for me, this represents a "next frontier" of knowledge regarding Joe's > Theory. Yes, exactly why I wanted you to hear it first. > Bobby, bearing in mind Ehrenhaft's microphotographs re his photophoresis > experiments (which I believe you've seen) ..... one hypothesis I've had I'll need some refresher on that. > concerning the 'structure' of the gyroscopic particle is that it could be > mechanically conceived as "an infinite regression of spirals." While the You started me thinking of spirals and that solved another problem for me. It's like a tornado coming out of the toroid shape on one side and going into it on the other side. It's like the whitewall tire in my first metaphor was rotating as the whitewalls flowed into the center of the tire and back out the other side. That would create the spiraling effect and the gyroscopic effect, as well! I was well aware when I first stated the concept that there was nothing necessarily gyroscopic, but now, thanks to you, there is. > An alternative(?) view is that, as Einstein stated mass and energy's > equivalence, they are indeed one and the same. The concept of "mass" and > the concept of "energy" exists in _our_ minds for _our_ cognitive benefit. > >From the 'universe's perspective', there is simply 'masergy' which could > mechanically consist of such an infinite regression of such 'masergies' > tracing out trajectories of spirals within spirals..... The quantum facts indicates exactly that must be the case. There is no mass, only energy that we have called mass for convenience of discussion, up until now. What is it that moves in these spiraling donuts? I haven't the foggiest notion, well that's not true, I have only a foggy notion. Let's call them imaginary donuts, to indicate where our model stops. > > For me, the above are hypothetical conjectures ... I simply don't know. > But what I DO KNOW is that we (as a species) can create a useful > operational construct --- the gyroscopic particle (setting aside for the > moment ITS structure) --- to build a technology which can harness its > mechanical motions to benefit humanity. spinning away, I remain Bobby -- Copyright 1996 by Bobby Matherne New Orleans, Louisiana (jeauxy@earthlink.net) -------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------- From: newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-l) Subject: Two Coils or One and a Resistor Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 05:59:17 GMT Organization: The Energy Machine Information System 504-734-0526 To: josephnewman@earthlink.net From: "Doyle P. Henderson" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 21:59:17 -0800 Subject: Two Coils or One and a Resistor Organization: SCIENTIFIC SPECIALISTS . Some time ago I offered a personal review and a narrative description of the famous "Two-coil Experiment" Joe Newman conducted on-stage at an auditorium filled with young people. (I watched a copy of the video tape at home.) Joe compared the magnetic forces produced by applying approximately the same DC voltages (from the same set of batteries) to two similar coils of wire comprised, however, of noticeably more wire on one than on the other. He tested one coil and then the other, and repeated the tests several times while describing what he was doing and what the effects were to those who could not see the experiment clearly due to the size of the auditorium. The tests were imprecise; but, that really didn't matter-- as you will soon understand. To be brief, he showed that the smaller coil of wire drew more DC current than the larger one which had more turns and obviously had greater DC resistance. Yet, he also showed that the larger coil produced much greater magnetic effect (by deflecting a pointer) than did the smaller coil. Now, I pointed out then and again now, that everything he did could be explained using classical EM theory, by conventional electrical engineering and physics concepts. (And, some people might find cause to criticize the experiments for various reasons.) The point was and remains, that while doing the experiment, Joe explained what happened using HIS theories (hypotheses to those who insist), rather than using classical theory. He could have just connected an 18 ohm non-inductive 20-watt resistor across the 18 volt battery pack.... instead of using the smaller coil of wire........ That would have caused a static current draw of about one ampere and the resistor would have begun to heat up..... No one would be surprised to note that no magnetic field of much consequence would have been created-- nor would the deflection device have moved perceptibly when placed near the resistor. But, if he then connected the battery to a coil of wire.... an inductance of many turns and comprised of many pounds of mass... of enamel insulated copper, and which had a much higher ohmic resistance, then the current drawn might be much less than the one ampere which flowed through the lower ohm resistor. And, yet, the deflection detector, being sensitive to the electo-magnetic field generated by the voltage/current through the large coil of wire would have shown far greater effect than it did when placed next to the resistor. So, what is the big deal about the two-coil experiment? As I pointed out then, and again now, it just showed that a smaller amount of power (ExI) can create a larger magnetic effect using a large coil of wire than can a resistor-- or a smaller, lower resistance, coil of wire of less turns and mass. There is nothing more to note from the tests Joe did for those young people...... EXCEPT what he said as he explained what happened. Instead of using classical physics and electro-magnetic theory, which some of you keep advancing to explain the two-coil experiment as if no one knew all that..... Joe explained the experiment by using a different explanation..... a different concept.... That's it, people. So, you can stop "arguing" about the coils or the experiment. In my opinion, the only thing worthy of discussion is what Joe said was happening...... not what ten thousand engineers say.... What they say is nothing new !!!!!!!! I knew that. Gyroparticles, copper mass becoming energy... copper being MAGNETIC.... stuff like that.... now, that's NEW stuff.... Talk about that... but first, please read his book.... so you'll know what you're talking about instead of parroting old stuff that some of us here think just may be wrong. And, if it is, Joe has discovered and described some very important new things. That's important. Resistors just don't capture that evasive force. Nor does Ohms' law or maybe even Maxwell's equations explain or accommodate all these demonstrated phenomena.... Try to do that using new ideas... Joe's or your own. Never mind all that stuff in all those books unless you can get from there to here using it. Then, you'll be contributing meaningfully to the world's best interests-- as well as your own. Or, did I make another mistake in my observation or reporting what I saw? Oh well, have at me. I'm getting used to it. Doyle. |^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| | Visit The Net's No. 1 WebSite at: http://website-1.com | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- For those on the Forum who may not have seen the following....I am submitting it as an interesting interpretation of Joseph Newman's Theory/Technical Process especially with regard to the recent discussions concerning the two-coil experiment: _________________________________________ Note: The views expressed herein may or may not represent the position of Joseph Newman and, as informational material, are provided here from submissions by other individuals interested in the technology _________________________________________ Thanks to Dr. Patrick Bailey of the Institute for New Energy for forwarding the following: A PRELIMINARY QUANTIFICATION OF NEWMAN'S EFFECT by Larry Adams Newman has experimentally derived a magnetic field from a coil connected to high potential. As shall be seen in the following, this is a complementary effect to that found in ferromagnetic resonance. This effect does not contradict Oersted, since it depends on an entirely different set of suppositions unknown to Oersted and now known as a part of condensed matter physics. After studying ferromagnetic resonance theory for nine years it comes as no surprise to me that Newman has proven a collary to the relationship of fields and spinning dipoles in matter. He has completed the symmetry. While it is well known that magnetic fields cause the precession of elementary magnetic moments and that precessing moments produce a magnetic field, the role of the electric field, the other half of the symmetry, has not until now been explained. An electric field is known to cause spinning electric dipoles to precess. Precessing elementary electric dipoles are, at the same time, precessing elementary magnetic moments. Precessing electrons have BOTH characteristics. The ratio e/m means two things simultaneously. Of course, charge to mass, influenced by electric fields, but also the ratio is the ratio of magnetic moment to angular momentum of the electron, influenced by magnetic fields. We are not dealing here with the usual source of magnetism, a conductive flow of electrons. Rather, it is the precession of electrons that is crucial. The precession tends to align the magnetic moments parallel; by superposition, a net magnetic field emerges. Newman's effect, then, is that a high electrical potential across a solid copper coil of radius r causes the precession of electrons in the copper, yielding a magnetic field. If the angular frequency of precession is w and the ratio e/m is y (mksa units) then the magnetic flux density is: B = w / y An identity for B is: B = E / wr where E is the applied electric field. Solve for w in the first equation (w = yB) then substitute this expression into the identity for w. Multiply both sides by B, and, B^2 = E / yr or, B = sqrt(E / yr). Maxwell's equations are linear because they refer to a vacuum. The non-linearity between E and B above is connected with the presence of mass and spin. Can very large electric fields be applied without breakdown? Theoretically, if r = 1m and E = 1.76 x 10^11 V/m, B = 1 Tesla. The current through the coil is marginal to insignificant as related by Newman. Power = V^2 / R so the length and diameter of the copper forming the coil must be chosen to minimize the resistance. B will alternate (pole switch) with an alternating potential. Larry Adams ______________________________________________ To repeat one particular paragraph: "We are not dealing here with the usual source of magnetism, a conductive flow of electrons. Rather, it is the precession of electrons that is crucial. The precession tends to align the magnetic moments parallel; by superposition, a net magnetic field emerges." One question which comes to mind is -- how does one integrate (resolve?) the seemingly different mechanical paradigms: "precession of electrons" (Larry Adams) and "interaction of gyroscopic particles" (Joseph Newman)? Bobby, any thoughts along this line? [And a related sub-question might be: the fundamental mechanical distinction (if ultimately any) between "electrons" and "gyroscopic particles"?] Is an "electron" a particular mechanical configuration of gyroscopic particles -- or are they fundamentally one and the same? Sincerely, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS email: josephnewman@earthlink.net websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- From: newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-l) Subject: Re: The two coil experiment Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:21:53 GMT Organization: The Energy Machine Information System 504-734-0526 To: josephnewman@earthlink.net From: (Stuart Rae) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 96 19:21 NZDT Subject: Re: The two coil experiment Thank you Evan; that particular report by Mr. Adams just about says it all for me. And what Mr. Adams expresses so clearly and concisely, might also pre-empt further discussion on some of the potentially contentious matters that we were clearly heading towards. In fact, there might be very little left to be said; except that the real challenge now for electrical engineering, is one of imaginative research and development, leading to the construction of practical devices, that will free us from our present form of primitive energy dependance. Dirk noted (and I agree) that; >snip >It seems that we have three levels of discussion on the two coil >experiment, each one interesting and worthwile to keep on with: > >1. Quantitative, >snip >2. Qualitative, >snip >3. Speculative >snip On a SPECULATIVE note, may I tentatively float a concept here that originates from a variety of sources, but particularly Mr Newman's theory, and all that has been discussed on this forum. Instead of a mechanical configuration of moving magnets as in Mr Newman's motor/generator, might it also be possible to construct an electrical generator without any moving parts. That is, one that operates soley on the principle of flux gating - or switching - of a STRONG PERMANENT MAGNET, through alternate flux paths, that incorporate "armature" coils. The physical flux paths would need to be of a suitably permeable material, that might be "switched" magnetically (by cross saturation), using high voltage (low power) pulsed "switching" inductors, whose flux paths are physically perpendicular to the flux paths of the permanent magnet. With the inductor circuits of such a system configured to an appropriate resonance (i.e. an LC parallel resonance) it should be possible to produce a substantial source of alternating current in the "armature" coils at a useful frequency, directly from the ENERGY SOURCE of the gyroscopic particles of the PERMANENT MAGNET. It should also be a reasonably simple matter to utilize the "back emf" of the switching inductors sequentially, with appropriate stearing diodes, and capacitors. With our clearer understanding of electromagnetic field behaviour gained from Mr Newman's work, and the illuminating comments of Mr Adams, such a generator would not seem to present any great conceptual difficulties. Your comments would be most appreciated, Regards all, Stuart Rae ============================================================================ Blenheim, New Zealand. ============================================================================ END............. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 16 15:43:45 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA02454; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 15:41:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 15:41:32 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:42:18 -0600 To: bshannon@tiac.net From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Email Interchanges, Part A Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"kb3vH.0.Ec.guTjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/783 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Email Interchanges, Part A From: newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-l) Subject: Re: Two coil experiment Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:45:55 GMT Organization: The Energy Machine Information System 504-734-0526 To: josephnewman@earthlink.net From: "Robert Burkholder" Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:45:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Two coil experiment Stuart, > From: (Stuart Rae) > Date: Fri, 15 Nov 96 20:23 NZDT > Subject: Re: Two coil experiment > > snip > > Now I don't have any problem with the energy (.5LI^2) stored in the magnetic > field - only where it's coming from. As previously indicated, my math is > fairly rusty, but don't the equations for a coil's flux linkage, inductance, > H, MMF, AND energy storage, all directly, or indirectly, contain such > physical terms as N, A, A^2 and L(cm), which describe the RELEVANT > dimensional and dispositional characteristic of the electrical conductor? > That is, a description and quantification of the disposition of a CONDUCTIVE > MASS in an electrical circuit. And when it comes to .5LI^2, for example, > this quantificaction of conductive mass is inherent;- and highly relevant to > the calculation of energy stored. Or as Mr Newman might say "...the energy > that comes from the gyroscopic particles that make up the atoms of the > copper wire that forms the electrical coil". Mr Newman is also noted, in > his electromagnetic hypothesis, for his literal interpretation of the > equivalence of mass and energy, from the familiar equation E=MC^2. Now > nobody ignores the mass inherent in this particular equation. And in a > similar way, isn't the current in any inductor equation the same thing as > the PD in volts divided by, the residual resistance in ohms that results > from a particular configuration of conductive mass? So that in some > electrical inductive configurations, the mass may itself directly contribute > to a large proportion of the energy that is required to sustain its magnetic > field - and of course, this energy is stored in the form of .5LI^2 . That > is, in those configurations that might rely on increased mass, the > limitation of electrical current, and an increase in the Potential > Difference or voltage. And isn't this what Mr Newman is expressing in his > hypothesis, or to quote Evan Soule et.al., "The obvious, is that which is > never seen until someone expresses it simply". > > snip I dusted off some of my old textbooks and did a little math. Here's what I found out about input power, magnetic field strength, and stored energy in a coil. For a given input power required to maintain a steady-state magnetic field in a coil: 1) the magnetic field strength is proportional to the square root of the volume of wire used times the square root of the input power, 2) the stored energy in the magnetic field is proportional to the volume of wire used times the input power. This takes into account the resistance of the coil which is assumed to be much larger than the resistance of the DC voltage source. It is also assumed that the dimensions of the coil are relatively constant, i.e., the height and average radius of the coil don't change much when more windings are added. The input voltage, wire gauge, and number of windings may vary. The interesting result here is that both the magnetic field strength and stored energy are increasing functions of the VOLUME (or MASS) of the wire in the coil. Actually, the above results are functions of the conductivity of the wire material times the volume, and not necessarily the mass. But since mass is proportional to volume there may still be a mass/energy relationship. I'm not sure of the implications of all this, but it sounds vaguely like a Newman principal. -R J Burkholder -------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- From: newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-l) Subject: Re: Two coil experiment Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:09:48 GMT Organization: The Energy Machine Information System 504-734-0526 To: josephnewman@earthlink.net From: (Stuart Rae) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 96 17:09 NZDT Subject: Re: Two coil experiment Robert, >From: "Robert Burkholder" >Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:45:55 -0500 >Subject: Re: Two coil experiment > >snip > >The interesting result here is that both the magnetic field strength and stored >energy are increasing functions of the VOLUME (or MASS) of the wire in the >coil. Actually, the above results are functions of the conductivity of the wire >material times the volume, and not necessarily the mass. But since mass is >proportional to volume there may still be a mass/energy relationship. > >snip Thank you again for your thoughtful response. Yes I agree with your conclusions: The fact that the magnetic field and energy are increasing functions of volume is extremely interesting, and the significance might be that the generally held conceptual view of "electrical energy" should be re-defined in those terms. i.e. its mass/energy relationships. And from the clearer understanding of THAT perspective, the horizons of electrical engineering might be rolled back just a little, to reveal that "electrical energy" per se was always 'free', and that the conservation of that energy was never in any jeopardy. Of course such a view might not only apply to the conductive volume or mass that we configure as inductors. The "Tweedle-De" of the partnership, and the other side of the coin, is capacitance. I'm sure it would also be interesting to look at the physical relationships that are also inherent here - i.e. in terms of A, d, and K. >snip > >I'm not sure of the implications of all this, but it sounds vaguely like a >Newman principal. > >snip Yes, I think you are right, and one implication is that Mr Newman is also right. And I have noted that to avoid any misunderstanding or confusion, he deliberately refrains from expressing his hypothesis in terms that might be recognised by those familiar with conventional electromagnetic theory. However, as a matter of interest, I did some serious dusting the other day, and discovered that I still have one of my original electrical primers, "The Admiralty Handbook of Wireless Telegraphy", 1931 - 1938 (Essential reading for those interested in the tricks of tuning spark gap transmitters). The following reference to electrical energy caught my eye: ".....When an electric current flows in a conductor the conductor becomes heated. Heat is a form of energy, being due to the vibrations of the molecules of the conductor. It follows that the PASSAGE OF CURRENT is ASSOCIATED with the TRANSFORMATION INTO HEAT ENERGY of SOME OTHER FORM OF ENERGY. We may give THIS FORM the name of 'ELECTRICAL ENERGY', as it is CONNECTED with an electrical current. This electrical energy is LINKED with the directed motion imposed on the free electrons when a current is flowing........." (My capitals - very cagey these Admiralty chaps) It also has a most absorbing section on the nature and properties of the Aether; and that I shall treasure. Who knows, we may need it one day. Stuart Rae ============================================================================ Blenheim, New Zealand. ============================================================================ -------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- From: newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-l) Subject: Re: Two Coil Experiment Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 21:42:45 GMT Organization: The Energy Machine Information System 504-734-0526 To: josephnewman@earthlink.net From: "Robert Burkholder" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:42:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Two Coil Experiment Dirk, > From: Dirk Kuhlmann ---snip--- > I do *not* propose that Newmans model is false (after all, it is a model of > reality as well as classical EM is one). But: is anybody out there who > is able to explain why the experiment forces me intellectually to > take the mass of coil into account (i.e., to share Newmans view)? > > > I COMPLIMENT THE THINKING INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE RECENTLY SPOKEN > > OUT ENDORSING THE PHENOMENALLY IMPORTANT TRUTH WHICH I TEACH." > > [...] > > The above reference to "THINKING INDIVIDUALS" is to Robert Burkholder and > > Stuart Rae whose interchanges I had forwarded to Joseph Newman. > > Well, thinking individuals: if you have found a bridge to overcome the gap > between the old and the new, how about sharing your maths with the > rest of us? Actually, all I did was to use the old (conventional EM theory) to substantiate Mr. Newman's claim that it is the MASS (or volume) of the coil which determines the strength of the magnetic field for a given level of steady-state input POWER. Keep in mind that to maintain a constant input power while the mass of the coil increases, the input voltage will have to change because the resistance of the coil changes. This is nothing new in theory, but the implications are certainly thought provoking in view of Mr. Newman's theory. It is becoming clear to me that most (if not all) of conventional EM theory can be explained in terms of gyroscopic particles. However, Newman's theories go beyond EM, even as far as unifying the five forces of nature (electric, magnetic, weak force, strong force, and gravity). This could be the Holy Grail of modern physics! -R J Burkholder --------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------- From: newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-l) Subject: Re: Two Coil Experiment & Fleming's Rule Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 00:22:51 GMT Organization: The Energy Machine Information System 504-734-0526 To: josephnewman@earthlink.net From: Bobby Matherne Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:22:51 -0800 Subject: Re: Two Coil Experiment & Fleming's Rule Organization: 21st Century Education, Inc Evan, you wrote: > Dirk, you wrote that "the experiment does not seem to show anything which > contradicts the Ampere Turn Law of classical EM theory." But classical EM > theory also states that the magnetic field comes from the input current. Evan, There's a subtle semantic difference here, that is obvious to me. Classical EM theory doesn't say that at all. It states Ampere's Law. You get to choose the internal model of the implications of Ampere's Law. Two meanings of "comes from": 1. "comes from1" means is generated in conjunction with, at the same time, synchronously. (The magnetic field is generated synchronously with the input current.) 2. "comes from2" means matter in motion originating from. Classical EM theory would never states (as you did above) that the magnetic field comes from2 the input current. Classical EM theory states that the magnetic field comes from1 the input current. I hope this helps clarify things -- and processess. "You get to choose the internal model of the implications of Ampere's Law." means that you get to choose one of the two above internal meanings when you read the same words. What classical EM theory means by "the electric field, the magnetic field is imaginary" is simply this: "we do not know the exact nature of the process" (hypothesi non fingo). Not knowing it directly, they call it imaginary to proceed with what they know. As we get further along, we know more. We make further hypotheses. Joe and you have one. I find the expression of the hypothesis in you and the knowing of the process in Joe. He sees it directly and you express what he sees, a very good combination. Note the change I make to the next sentence, "Joseph Newman TOTALLY disagrees with this and maintains that the magnetic field comes from2 the mass of the coil --- NOT the current." Make that distinction and you will increase the impedance matching with the scientific community. Say only what Joe means using unambiguous terms. I offer my help, just ask. On a slightly different subject, have you a mental model for the gyroscopic particle? I doubt that spinning top or a yo-yo is a useful model. Remember we're dealing with the quantum range where the boundaries of matter and energy are blurred. One changes into the other and back very quickly and easily. What is it spins, has a bidirectional aspect, and can grow and shrink in size very quickly and easily (given the right impetus)? A tornado, a whirlpool, an eddy current, the water going down a drain -- what do all these shapes have in common? A toroidal shape. I suspect that the gyroscopical particles that comprise the magnetic field are toruses, or donut shapes that are spinning on the circular center of the donut. Example if it were a white walled tire, the white walls would be seen to go into the tire, around the other side, onto the tread, and so on. Such a vortex would seem to have two directions of spin or motion from whichever direction it were viewed from. Into or out of, etc. But no one views these things except as mental constructs. What we call mass (i. e. gyro particles) if we talk Newman theory, or what we call magnetic field lines of force if we talk classical EM theory is probably a vortex of energy created by the movement of the current from the mass (clustered energy) of the copper atoms. Let's talk some about this. Bobby -- Bobby Matherne New Orleans, Louisiana Physicist (jeauxy@earthlink.net) ------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------ >From: newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-l) >Subject: Re: Two Coil Experiment & Fleming's Rule >Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 00:22:51 GMT >Organization: The Energy Machine Information System 504-734-0526 >To: josephnewman@earthlink.net > Dear Bobby, Thanks for your insightful comments and suggestions!! Perhaps the gyroscopic particles between my ears are not "operating at top speed today".... because I am not grasping "with full resonance" the significance of the subtle semantic difference you are discussing. It seems like I begin to understand your point, then I think I understand your point --- then it seems to elude me upon further reflection. [This may be a case of making something more complicated than it needs to be! :-) ] This is not to diminish the importance of what you are saying -- this may be my problem....not yours. Perhaps my confusion may also be related to the implicitness of the English language ... (I've heard it said that the Hungarian language virtually has no synonyms -- that every word has a distinct and separate meaning from every other word).... When I wrote "But classical EM theory also states that the magnetic field comes from the input current" --- I had in mind that according to classical EM theory, the "source" of the coil's magnetic field was the input current. Now, if I view this concept of "source" within the context of the two definitions of "come from" which you present..... >1. "comes from-1" means is generated in conjunction with, at the same time, >synchronously. (The magnetic field is generated synchronously with the input >current.) > >2. "comes from-2" means matter in motion originating from. Do you actually mean "synchronously"? --- does this exclude a time delay -- however miniscule? If "A" happens (input current) then a VERY short time later "B" happens (a generated magnetic field) --- WITHIN THE SAME SYSTEM --- could one not conclude that "A" may be postulated to be a/the "source" for "B"? And, on the other hand: in definition 2 above the concept of "source" seems more evident --- "originating from" could certainly be synonomous with the word "source." I do see that you are endeavoring to draw a very fine and important line of semantic distinction here --- I just want to be certain that I understand what you are saying. Now, as my interpretation of what Joe would say: the input voltage catalytically causes the atoms of the copper coil to become aligned and to therefore "release" their gyroscopic particles beyond the boundaries of the individual copper atoms. And the greater the number of copper atoms in the system's configuration (coil) the greater the (kinetic) release of gyroscopic particles to form the resultant magnetic field. ________________________________________ On a related subject: Regarding your discussion of the composition of the gyroscopic particle: for me, this represents a "next frontier" of knowledge regarding Joe's Theory. Bobby, bearing in mind Ehrenhaft's microphotographs re his photophoresis experiments (which I believe you've seen) ..... one hypothesis I've had concerning the 'structure' of the gyroscopic particle is that it could be mechanically conceived as "an infinite regression of spirals." While the concept of infinity is something that 'finite physical creatures such as ourselves' sometimes have difficulty grasping [Gamov's book, ONE, TWO, THREE...INFINITY, notwithstanding] -- nevertheless the universe may indeed be "infinite" in nature. Picturing this "infinite regression of spirals" in my mind is, for me, a bit challenging --- but if an entity-1 (gyroscopic particle) of a given order of magnitude was 'spinning in a spiral fashion at a rate equivalent to that of the speed of light,' then --- for all mechanical purposes in terms of interacting with adjacent entities --- such an entity could be macroscopically extrapolated to possess 3-dimensional characteristics. Yet, suppose that 'within' entity-1 there was an entity-2 (of a smaller order of magnitude) also spinning in a spiral fashion at a rate equivalent to that of the speed of light --- and this entity-2, for all mechanical purposes in terms of interacting with adjacent entities --- (by virtue of it's spiral trajectory) traced out the seeming 3-dimensional 'boundaries' which creates entity-1......and so on, ad infinitum...... An alternative(?) view is that, as Einstein stated mass and energy's equivalence, they are indeed one and the same. The concept of "mass" and the concept of "energy" exists in _our_ minds for _our_ cognitive benefit. >From the 'universe's perspective', there is simply 'masergy' which could mechanically consist of such an infinite regression of such 'masergies' tracing out trajectories of spirals within spirals..... For me, the above are hypothetical conjectures ... I simply don't know. But what I DO KNOW is that we (as a species) can create a useful operational construct --- the gyroscopic particle (setting aside for the moment ITS structure) --- to build a technology which can harness its mechanical motions to benefit humanity. Best regards, Evan Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS email: josephnewman@earthlink.net websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html -------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------- End of Email Interchanges, Part A From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 16 15:43:57 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA02763; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 15:42:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 15:42:49 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:43:40 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Resent-Message-ID: <"n4LS1.0.3h.rvTjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/785 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>Note: If one learns from one's mistakes, then the scientific community of >1820 should have been rendered HUMBLE by its error. History has proven >that THEY WERE NOT so humbled! I say this because members of the >scientific community continued to make the same, BIASED MISTAKES --- >BACK-TO-BACK!>>> > >Well aren't you biased for believing that your "unified field theory" is the >reason your device works (Or is SUPPOSED to work)? There can be many, MANY >other reasons why it could work that don't involve a unified field theory. > >- Adam Grossman Dear Mr. Grossman: I believe you may be confusing "bias" with "self-confidence" First of all, Joseph Newman was informed by scientists at NASA that he had (mechanically) unified the fields years before he designed and LATER built his first operational prototype. His Theories came first -- then the prototype design. Not the other way around. Secondly, Joseph Newman is not specifically stating that his technology works "because of his unified field theory" --- His mechanically unified field theory is simply an outgrowth of years of independent research and scientific investigation. ONE SINGLE derivative of ONE ASPECT of his mechanically unified field theory is his energy machine technology: the whole picture is far broader than this technological application. Do you have a SINGLE MECHANICAL EXPLANATION for the phenomena described in Joseph Newman's post of 12/14/96? He does. Saying that there "can be many, MANY other reasons why it could work that don't involve a unified field theory" --- has no bearing on the fact that Joseph Newman DOES HAVE A SINGLE MECHANICAL EXPLANATION for the fields. A true scientist will consider this explanation, evaluate it and (if they choose) try to find ONE EXCEPTION which would NOT be explained by this SINGLE MECHANICAL EXPLANATION. Joseph Newman was unable to find ONE EXCEPTION. Consequently, in this context, he is not interested in what "could be" or what "can be" --- he is truly interested in what "IS." And for him, what "IS" is his SINGLE MECHANICAL EXPLANATION as discussed in his post of 12/14/96. Sincerely, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 josephnewman@earthlink.net http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 16 18:49:03 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA17397; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:48:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:48:02 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961216184751.00a0b948@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: Epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:47:53 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Magnetic Shielding - for "dummies" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"jqM_Z3.0.YF4.VdWjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/786 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: < View the below drawing with monospaced font and this screen width > MAGNETIC SHIELDING For example take two permanent magnets in S-S configuration and iron plate like this. (the plate is restricted to move only in vertical direction) LEGEND: NNNNSSSS a permanent magnet with North & South poles IIIIIIII a soft iron plate CCCCCCCC an electromagnetic --------------------------------------------------------------------- NNNNSSSS SSSSNNNN I I I I I (iron plate attracted up) --------------------------------------------------------------------- The iron plate will be pulled into the gap between the magnets like this I I NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN I I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) --------------------------------------------------------------------- But if the gap between the magnets is LARGER the iron plate will stop here. This configuration is not useful for our purposes. NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN I I I I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) --------------------------------------------------------------------- If the magnets are oriented S-N the iron plate will also stop here because iron plate is equally attracted to North or South poles: I I NNNNSSSS I NNNNSSSS I I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) ********************************************************************* If we now consider this sequence of events _____________________________________________________________________ Both magnets attract the iron plate into the gap NNNNSSSS SSSSNNNN I I I I I (iron plate moving up) Fig #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- I I NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN I I (iron plate moving up) Fig #2 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- One of the magnets is removed or annihilated. I I NNNNSSSS I I I (iron plate moving up) Fig #3 --------------------------------------------------------------------- I I I I I (iron plate moving up) NNNNSSSS Fig #4 --------------------------------------------------------------------- We will notice that the iron plate gains more energy getting pulled between the magnets (Fig #1 & #2) then it looses during the back drag (Fig #3 & #4) because one of the magnets has been removed. One might immediately say here: "...wait a minute you just had to expend energy removing one of the magnets..." and you would be correct in the above case. HOWEVER if we were using a coil instead of the magnet we could turn it off (and the magnetic field it produces) without expending any energy So what exactly happens if we substitute on of the magnet with a coil ? --------------------------------------------------------------------- At the beginning (Fig #5) the coil sees the maximum intensity of the south pole produced by the permanent magnet. As the iron plate is pulled into the gap between the permanent magnet and the coil, the iron shield starts REDIRECTING more and more of the magnetic field (splitting the field) produced by the permanent magnet AWAY from the coil. The net result of this is that the coil starts seeing less and less of the south pole (which is provided by the permanent magnet). According to the Lenz law if the circuit of the coil is closed, the coil will try to resist this change in the strength of the aforementioned south pole by circulating electric current through its windings in such a way that the coil will PRODUCE its own south pole in order to keep the intensity of the south pole near the coil exactly what it was before the iron plate (shield) started moving into the gap. The coil acts as an ultimate conservative :-) The CRUCIAL effect is that this magnetic south pole created by the coil will also attract the iron plate into the gap between the magnet and the coil just like it was happening in Fig #1. A south pole is a south pole, regardless whether it is produced by a magnet or a coil, right ?. So the moving iron plate will be attracted into the gap by BOTH the magnet and the coil analogously to Fig #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- NNNNSSSS CCCCCCCC Coil closed (producing South pole) I I I I I (iron plate moving up) #5 --------------------------------------------------------------------- I I NNNNSSSS I CCCCCCCC Coil closed (producing South pole) I I (iron plate moving up) #6 --------------------------------------------------------------------- I I NNNNSSSS I CCCCCCCC Coil open ( inert ) I I (iron plate moving up) #7 --------------------------------------------------------------------- I I I I I (iron plate moving up) NNNNSSSS CCCCCCCC Coil open (inert) #8 --------------------------------------------------------------------- In Fig #6 the iron plate will shield the coil from all of the intensity of the south pole created by the permanent magnet and if the closed coil was superconductive and didn't have any resistive losses it now WOULD be producing a hypothetic south pole of exactly the same intensity as the south pole produced by the permanent magnet in Fig #5. At the same time, the permanent magnet in Fig #6 would also be shielded by the iron plate from the hypothetical field produced by the coil and would produce the same intensity of the south pole as it did before in Fig #5. For best shielding results a double iron plate (with gap between plates) should be used. We could say we "split" the original magnetic filed by the iron plate "axe". In Fig #7 & #8 we open the coil windings which makes the coil behave as if it WASN'T THERE at all. This is analogous to annihilating the permanent magnet in Fig #3. Now the iron plate can move away (under its inertia) from the permanent magnet with 2 times less back drag than if the coil was left closed. This switching-off of the coil allows the moving iron plate to escape from the gap with more energy than it had before. One might say that the switching action introduces nonconservativness into the system and introduces order into nature. Order = negentropy = energy This cycle can repeat indefinitely (perpetually) if the iron shield is moving cyclically in a large circular path through the magnet-coil gap just like in the Ecklin, LIAG, Kromray, Bedini generators. The coil should have as little resistance as possible in order to have the maximum magnetic flux induced in it. It should be switched with low resistance relay or a MOSFET transistor with very low RdsON (ie. N-ch MegaFET MOSFETs by Harris semiconductor). The gate of the MOSFET could be energized by a high resistance, high voltage (not over 20V) coil coaxially wound with the main coil. No exotic sensors are necessary here since one can take advantage of the property that the electric current through the coil moves one way when the iron plate is approaching the gap and OTHER way when the plate moves away. Yes, a diode could be used but a diode need 0.6 volts to operate and the low resistance coil (means thick wire, few turns) will not produce anything close to 0.6V but it will produce many Amps (high current). Strong magnets, small gap, laminated or powdered (to combat eddy currents) cores and the moving plate would improve efficiency. When the coil is said to be closed it doesn't necessarily mean shorted. It can be connected to a practical load to do useful work. The interesting property of this system is that the more current you draw from the coil the more energy you extract and the faster the iron plate moves (escapes from the gap). If you don't short the coil or hook up a load to it during the iron plate approach phase the whole thing will stop working and will behave conventionally. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 16 23:30:52 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA12840; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 23:30:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 23:30:08 -0800 Message-ID: <32B64C35.6671@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 23:31:01 -0800 From: Phil Gantt Reply-To: pgantt@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Shielding - for "dummies" References: <3.0.32.19961216184751.00a0b948@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PkK6k3.0.V83.zlajo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/787 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > < View the below drawing with monospaced font and this screen width > > > MAGNETIC SHIELDING > > For example take two permanent magnets in S-S configuration and iron plate > like this. (the plate is restricted to move only in vertical direction) > > LEGEND: NNNNSSSS a permanent magnet with North & South poles > IIIIIIII a soft iron plate > CCCCCCCC an electromagnetic > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > NNNNSSSS SSSSNNNN > > I > I > I > I > I (iron plate attracted up) > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > The iron plate will be pulled into the gap between the magnets like this > > I > I > NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN > I > I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > But if the gap between the magnets is LARGER the iron plate will stop here. > This configuration is not useful for our purposes. > > > NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN > I > I > I > I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > If the magnets are oriented S-N the iron plate will also stop here because > iron plate is equally attracted to North or South poles: > > I > I > NNNNSSSS I NNNNSSSS > I > I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) > > ********************************************************************* > > If we now consider this sequence of events > > _____________________________________________________________________ > > Both magnets attract the iron plate into the gap > > NNNNSSSS SSSSNNNN > > I > I > I > I > I (iron plate moving up) > > Fig #1 > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I > I > NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN > I > I (iron plate moving up) > > Fig #2 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > One of the magnets is removed or annihilated. > > I > I > NNNNSSSS I > I > I (iron plate moving up) > > Fig #3 > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I > I > I > I > I (iron plate moving up) > > NNNNSSSS > > Fig #4 > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > We will notice that the iron plate gains more energy getting pulled between > the magnets (Fig #1 & #2) then it looses during the back drag (Fig #3 & #4) > because one of the magnets has been removed. One might immediately say > here: "...wait a minute you just had to expend energy removing one of the > magnets..." and you would be correct in the above case. > > HOWEVER if we were using a coil instead of the magnet we could turn it off > (and the magnetic field it produces) without expending any energy > > So what exactly happens if we substitute on of the magnet with a coil ? > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > At the beginning (Fig #5) the coil sees the maximum intensity of the south > pole produced by the permanent magnet. > > As the iron plate is pulled into the gap between the permanent magnet and > the coil, the iron shield starts REDIRECTING more and more of the magnetic > field (splitting the field) produced by the permanent magnet AWAY from the > coil. The net result of this is that the coil starts seeing less and less > of the south pole (which is provided by the permanent magnet). > > According to the Lenz law if the circuit of the coil is closed, the coil > will try to resist this change in the strength of the aforementioned south > pole by circulating electric current through its windings in such a way > that the coil will PRODUCE its own south pole in order to keep the > intensity of the south pole near the coil exactly what it was before the > iron plate (shield) started moving into the gap. The coil acts as an > ultimate conservative :-) > > The CRUCIAL effect is that this magnetic south pole created by the coil > will also attract the iron plate into the gap between the magnet and the > coil just like it was happening in Fig #1. A south pole is a south pole, > regardless whether it is produced by a magnet or a coil, right ?. > > So the moving iron plate will be attracted into the gap by BOTH the magnet > and the coil analogously to Fig #1 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > NNNNSSSS CCCCCCCC Coil closed (producing South pole) > > I > I > I > I > I (iron plate moving up) > #5 > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I > I > NNNNSSSS I CCCCCCCC Coil closed (producing South pole) > I > I (iron plate moving up) > > #6 > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I > I > NNNNSSSS I CCCCCCCC Coil open ( inert ) > I > I (iron plate moving up) > > #7 > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I > I > I > I > I (iron plate moving up) > > NNNNSSSS CCCCCCCC Coil open (inert) > #8 > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > In Fig #6 the iron plate will shield the coil from all of the intensity of > the south pole created by the permanent magnet and if the closed coil was > superconductive and didn't have any resistive losses it now WOULD be > producing a hypothetic south pole of exactly the same intensity as the > south pole produced by the permanent magnet in Fig #5. At the same time, > the permanent magnet in Fig #6 would also be shielded by the iron plate > from the hypothetical field produced by the coil and would produce the same > intensity of the south pole as it did before in Fig #5. For best shielding > results a double iron plate (with gap between plates) should be used. We > could say we "split" the original magnetic filed by the iron plate "axe". > > In Fig #7 & #8 we open the coil windings which makes the coil behave as if > it WASN'T THERE at all. This is analogous to annihilating the permanent > magnet in Fig #3. Now the iron plate can move away (under its inertia) > from the permanent magnet with 2 times less back drag than if the coil was > left closed. This switching-off of the coil allows the moving iron plate > to escape from the gap with more energy than it had before. One might say > that the switching action introduces nonconservativness into the system and > introduces order into nature. Order = negentropy = energy > > This cycle can repeat indefinitely (perpetually) if the iron shield is > moving cyclically in a large circular path through the magnet-coil gap just > like in the Ecklin, LIAG, Kromray, Bedini generators. > > The coil should have as little resistance as possible in order to have the > maximum magnetic flux induced in it. It should be switched with low > resistance relay or a MOSFET transistor with very low RdsON (ie. N-ch > MegaFET MOSFETs by Harris semiconductor). The gate of the MOSFET could be > energized by a high resistance, high voltage (not over 20V) coil coaxially > wound with the main coil. No exotic sensors are necessary here since one > can take advantage of the property that the electric current through the > coil moves one way when the iron plate is approaching the gap and OTHER way > when the plate moves away. Yes, a diode could be used but a diode need 0.6 > volts to operate and the low resistance coil (means thick wire, few turns) > will not produce anything close to 0.6V but it will produce many Amps (high > current). > > Strong magnets, small gap, laminated or powdered (to combat eddy currents) > cores and the moving plate would improve efficiency. > > When the coil is said to be closed it doesn't necessarily mean shorted. It > can be connected to a practical load to do useful work. The interesting > property of this system is that the more current you draw from the coil the > more energy you extract and the faster the iron plate moves (escapes from > the gap). If you don't short the coil or hook up a load to it during the > iron plate approach phase the whole thing will stop working and will behave > conventionally. I had to respond to this. I looks to me like if you use a coil and disengage the magnetic pull from one side, that the plate will then begin a trajectory toward the other pole (magnet). Am I wrong or am I missing something? -- Phil Gantt pgantt@ix.netcom.com Web Page: http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/intro.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 03:35:47 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA08112; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 03:35:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 03:35:13 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 06:34:37 -0500 Message-ID: <961217063436_1322041635@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Resent-Message-ID: <"vC0vh3.0.f-1.lLejo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/788 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gyroscope particle?!? A single particle like a proton, electron, etc. (And I assume your "gyroscope partcile) cannot have a gyroscopic spin! (Oh, they do have something called a spin, but it is nothing like real spin). It is meaningless to say it does! And where can I contact this "Dr. Robert Smith" at NASA? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 04:03:21 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA10821; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 04:02:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 04:02:57 -0800 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: ROBK@netcomuk.co.uk Subject: Rob King and Adams Motor Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:38:58 GMT Message-ID: <32bca163.12096242@mail.zip.com.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99g/16.339 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"TtJ9m2.0.-e2.llejo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/789 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It is now a month and a half since we've heard from you about your efforts to replicate the Adams motor. How about an update, Rob? Cheers,=20 Alan =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Quantum Mechanics: The Dreams that Stuff is made of. - Michael Sinz =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 04:35:19 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA14387; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 04:34:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 04:34:27 -0800 Message-ID: <32B692BD.8A9@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:01:57 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ecklin References: <3.0.32.19961216115142.009d18ac@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zr7yw1.0.iW3.HDfjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/790 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Alexander, Please refer to my letters to Stephan for info on your query. Power is consumed in this generator as the gradient fields alter with a load on the output coil. Field is reduced moving into magnets and increased moving away from magnets by the current flowing in the output coil. This difference is required to be made up by the rotary driving source. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 05:05:39 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA17877; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 05:05:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 05:05:02 -0800 From: meyersr@norand.com Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 07:05:07 CDT Message-Id: <9611178508.AA850835229@smtpgate.norand.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: re: Create ball lightning w/ kitchen microwave oven Resent-Message-ID: <"9gnMC1.0.2N4.yffjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/791 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Anyone here done this yet ? > "...Although I am hoping for some other types of ball lightning to emerge > such as strictly electrostatic-electromagnetic manifestations, I have been > unlucky in finding laboratory provable evidence. Cavity-formed plasmodes > can be made by putting a 2-inch burning candle in a home kitchen microwave > oven. The plasmodes float around for as long as the microwave energy is > present." > works beautifully. except a one inch candle in a crystal candle holder. and on several attempts, it did appear to require that three inch crystal holder of the wife's (our oldest daughter speculates it's a crystal focus, (lead crystal) as other attempts with ceramics and mom's corell wear ware were unsuccessful (yes, i know, i have wonderful wife to donate her kitchen for this impromptu stuff ...) an excellent before dinner science project with the children (back across the kitchen with goggles on, they were so cute :) ). small breeze in the cavity (due to the cooling fan i would imagine.) bees wax candle (tinted pink with some unknown dye) the microwave, 750 watt, rotating type, rotating platform removed. every few seconds the flickering flame would "plasma ball", rising up, left, behind, of the standing flame. excellent audio accompaniment. (you should have seen the face on the eight year old the first time , however i bet you all can imagine the look on the wife :) - a note here, her comment about what appeared to be a bit of something as those balls flashed. "hmmmm. clean. " (the ceiling of that cavity showing no signs of any anything, and we would swear there was a bit of black at the moment of the event). well, thought i'd share. and if i may? an additional curiosity. is this phenomenon scaleable? that's what the conversation turned to over last night's dinner. does the phenomenon in that cavity scale? linear? log? step?. so, what happens with two, three, four, five, ... candles? however in this curiosity, my wife does have her limits of tolerance regarding the diversion of her kitchen appliances,and dishware ... (thank all that is :) ) stephen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 05:19:33 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA20093; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 05:18:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 05:18:34 -0800 From: RMCarrell@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:17:53 -0500 Message-ID: <961217081752_1589706951@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Correa Homepage Resent-Message-ID: <"v0BcH2.0.nv4.dsfjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/792 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dr. Paulo and Alexandrea Correa have opened a homepage on their work at: http://www.globalserve.net/~lambdac The site contains some philoshphical comments, and introduction to the PAGD phenomenon, a note from Dr. Harold Aspden, and an extensive discussion of the Correa's discoveries in distinction to that of Reich and the allegations of Marett. For those unacquainted with the Correa's work, it is a major contender for a viable o/u energy source deriving its output from the ZPE. Study of the referenced patents, and the work of Aspden is highly recommended. My two articles in Infinite Energy will serve as an introduction. Mike Carrell From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 05:59:45 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA26761; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 05:59:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 05:59:05 -0800 Message-Id: <199612171358.FAA26689@mx1.eskimo.com> Date: 17 Dec 1996 08:46 EST Sender: "Gene Batten" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Gene Batten" Subject: Re: Sharing the Knowledge Resent-Message-ID: <"Ok6IK2.0.1Y6.cSgjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/793 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The following post is an excellent idea. An organized list of known devices and designs would be a great way to follow and document the various activities that are going on around the world in this exciting field. If time permitted, I would volunteer to start and administer such a list, however, work and other committments will not allow me to do that. Perhaps somone else on this freenrg-l list is willing, and has the time and resources to start and administer such a list (or web site). Gene Batten mdleb@nortel.ca In message "Sharing the Knowledge", you write: > JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > > >To spread quickly the thinking process in the world, I suggest to provide > >this kind of documents : > > >- an "Easy make-it-yourself experiment" document to prove existence of Free > >Energy > >- a "Build yourself a Free Energy generator" document > > > I am amazed by the current state of "Free Energy" research in general. > Much time is spent revisiting designs which have been shown not to > provide clearly over unity operation, while other designs remain largely > unknown. > > Clearly the best evidence for true over unity operation is evidenced by > a device that > provides ANY energy output, without external energy input, or chemical > batteries. Such designs do exist, and one is available on Bill's web > site. > > I think that the community at large would be far better off if a list of > known devices and designs were complied, with as complete documentation > as practical. Each design should also be given a pair of documents, one > each from a proponent, and from > a detractor, stating why this device is, or is not a true over unity > design with all > the actual test data and referances, etc. > > Such a master referance avaiable on the web could save researchers > countless time currently wasted in finding information, and duplicating > devices which do not work. > Such a referance would also serve to direct the limited resources of the > field as a whole towards devices which show promise for true over unity > operation. > > At the very least, one of the organizations should make such a master > referances avaialble for a fee. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 06:47:41 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA06687; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 06:46:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 06:46:05 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961217064529.00a17950@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: Epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 06:45:30 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: RE: LIAG, Ecklin free energy, demystified Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"2O-NQ3.0.xd1.Z8hjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/794 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You are correct that the magnetic field from the coil cannot be turned off instantly because of the L/R relation. However in the magnetic shielding system that I have described, the action of open circuiting the coil is equivalent to raising the R to a very high value thus decreasing the magnetic field decay around the coil (L/R) to an extremely short time. The side effect of this action is the production of short high voltage pulse. Also in practical system the coil is wound with few turns and thick wire in order to maximize the current and the induced magnetic field so the inductance (L) is very low further shortening the magnetic field & electric current decay rate upon opening the coil. One might even use a thick copper sheet instead of the multi turn coil since this sheet will behave as an almost zero inductance, zero resistance, one turn coil. The problem with this is that the copper sheet cannot be turned off easily (but it can be physically removed) Furthermore in real application the current flowing through the coil during the iron plate approach phase is constantly dissipated in a useful load and the coil resistance, further shortening the decay after the coil is opened. Also the iron plate (shield) has a very real width (I don't mean thickness) which passes through the gap between the magnet and the coil for a significant time during which the change in the shielding effect and the magnetic field change perceived by the coil is much smaller than during the approach of the plate to the gap. This extra time (caused by the width of the plate) gives the system more "penalty-free" opportunity to decay the energy in the coil. Another way to look at the "coil decay" issue is to consider this: ...the current flows one way when the plate is approaching the gap and OTHER way when the plate is moving out of the gap... Since this current in the coil reverses direction it must cross zero. It is possible to turn off the coil at exactly the zero current crossing. Also during the time when the plate is in the gap the change in magnetic field shielding is lower than during the approach of the plate into the gap. All of this can be easily seen if you have an oscilloscope, coil, magnet and iron plate. Epitaxy At 02:01 PM 12/16/96 -0800, you wrote: >Jeff >I am confused by your turning off the coil. A coil >has an inductance L and takes about 4*L/R seconds >to reduce the current throgh it to zero. The >magnetic field goes to about 5% in this time >(4 time constants). You need to solve the whole >dynamics of this electro-magnetic interaction >with the iron plate to determine what is going on. > -Hank Scudder > > ---------- >From: Epitaxy >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: LIAG, Ecklin, demystified >Date: Monday, December 16, 1996 11:51AM > > > ><------------- View the below drawing with monospaced font and this >screen >width -----------------> > > < View the below drawing with monospaced font and this screen width > MAGNETIC SHIELDING For example take two permanent magnets in S-S configuration and iron plate like this. (the plate is restricted to move only in vertical direction) LEGEND: NNNNSSSS a permanent magnet with North & South poles IIIIIIII a soft iron plate CCCCCCCC an electromagnetic coil --------------------------------------------------------------------- NNNNSSSS SSSSNNNN I I I I I (iron plate attracted up) --------------------------------------------------------------------- The iron plate will be pulled into the gap between the magnets like this I I NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN I I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) --------------------------------------------------------------------- But if the gap between the magnets is LARGER the iron plate will stop here. This configuration is not useful for our purposes. NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN I I I I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) --------------------------------------------------------------------- If the magnets are oriented S-N the iron plate will also stop here because iron plate is equally attracted to North or South poles: I I NNNNSSSS I NNNNSSSS I I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) ********************************************************************* If we now consider this sequence of events _____________________________________________________________________ Both magnets attract the iron plate into the gap NNNNSSSS SSSSNNNN I I I I I (iron plate moving up) Fig #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- I I NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN I I (iron plate moving up) Fig #2 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- One of the magnets is removed or annihilated. I I NNNNSSSS I I I (iron plate moving up) Fig #3 --------------------------------------------------------------------- I I I I I (iron plate moving up) NNNNSSSS Fig #4 --------------------------------------------------------------------- We will notice that the iron plate gains more energy getting pulled between the magnets (Fig #1 & #2) than it looses during the back drag (Fig #3 & #4) because one of the magnets has been removed. One might immediately say here: "...wait a minute you just had to expend energy removing one of the magnets..." and you would be correct in the above case. HOWEVER if we were using a coil instead of the magnet we could turn it off (and the magnetic field it produces) without expending any energy So what exactly happens if we substitute one of the magnets with a coil ? --------------------------------------------------------------------- At the beginning (Fig #5) the coil sees the maximum intensity of the south pole produced by the permanent magnet. As the iron plate is pulled into the gap between the permanent magnet and the coil, the iron shield starts REDIRECTING more and more of the magnetic field (splitting the field) produced by the permanent magnet AWAY from the coil. The net result of this is that the coil starts seeing less and less of the south pole (which is provided by the permanent magnet). According to the Lenz law if the circuit of the coil is closed, the coil will try to resist this change in the strength of the aforementioned south pole by circulating electric current through its windings in such a way that the coil will PRODUCE its own south pole in order to keep the intensity of the south pole near the coil exactly what it was before the iron plate (shield) started moving into the gap. The coil acts as an ultimate conservative :-) The CRUCIAL effect is that this magnetic south pole created by the coil will also attract the iron plate into the gap between the magnet and the coil just like it was happening in Fig #1. A south pole is a south pole, regardless whether it is produced by a magnet or a coil, right ?. So the moving iron plate will be attracted into the gap by BOTH the magnet and the coil analogously to Fig #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- NNNNSSSS CCCCCCCC Coil closed (producing South pole) I I I I I (iron plate moving up) #5 --------------------------------------------------------------------- I I NNNNSSSS I CCCCCCCC Coil closed (producing South pole) I I (iron plate moving up) #6 --------------------------------------------------------------------- I I NNNNSSSS I CCCCCCCC Coil open ( inert ) I I (iron plate moving up) #7 --------------------------------------------------------------------- I I I I I (iron plate moving up) NNNNSSSS CCCCCCCC Coil open (inert) #8 --------------------------------------------------------------------- In Fig #6 the iron plate will shield the coil from all of the intensity of the south pole created by the permanent magnet and if the closed coil was superconductive and didn't have any resistive losses it now WOULD be producing a hypothetic south pole of exactly the same intensity as the south pole produced by the permanent magnet in Fig #5. At the same time, the permanent magnet in Fig #6 would also be shielded by the iron plate from the hypothetical field produced by the coil and would produce the same intensity of the south pole as it did before in Fig #5. For best shielding results a double iron plate (with gap between plates) should be used. We could say we "split" the original magnetic filed by the iron plate "axe". In Fig #7 & #8 we open the coil windings which makes the coil behave as if it WASN'T THERE at all. This is analogous to annihilating the permanent magnet in Fig #3. Now the iron plate can move away (under its inertia) from the permanent magnet with 2 times less back drag than if the coil was left closed. This switching-off of the coil allows the moving iron plate to escape from the gap with more energy than it had before. One might say that the switching action introduces nonconservativness into the system and introduces order into nature. Order = negentropy = energy This cycle can repeat indefinitely (perpetually) if the iron shield is moving cyclically in a large circular path through the magnet-coil gap just like in the Ecklin, LIAG, Kromray, Bedini generators. The coil should have as little resistance as possible in order to have the maximum magnetic flux induced in it. It should be switched with low resistance relay or a MOSFET transistor with very low RdsON (ie. N-ch MegaFET MOSFETs by Harris semiconductor). The gate of the MOSFET could be energized by a high resistance, high voltage (not over 20V) coil coaxially wound with the main coil. No exotic sensors are necessary here since one can take advantage of the property that the electric current through the coil moves one way when the iron plate is approaching the gap and OTHER way when the plate moves away. Yes, a diode could be used but a diode need 0.6 volts to operate and the low resistance coil (means thick wire, few turns) will not produce anything close to 0.6V but it will produce many Amps (high current). Strong magnets, small gap, laminated or powdered (to combat eddy currents) cores and the moving plate would improve efficiency. When the coil is said to be closed it doesn't necessarily mean shorted. It can be connected to a practical load to do useful work. The interesting property of this system is that the more current you draw from the coil the more energy you extract and the faster the iron plate moves (escapes from the gap). If you don't short the coil or hook up a load to it during the iron plate approach phase the whole thing will stop working and will behave conventionally. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 06:56:59 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA09736; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 06:56:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 06:56:13 -0800 X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:57:16 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Resent-Message-ID: <"WC4Hz3.0.1O2.BIhjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/795 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Gyroscope particle?!? >A single particle like a proton, electron, etc. (And I assume your "gyroscope >partcile) cannot have a gyroscopic spin! (Oh, they do have something called a >spin, but it is nothing like real spin). It is meaningless to say it does! > >And where can I contact this "Dr. Robert Smith" at NASA? Dear Mr. Grossman: I would suggest that to arrive at a conclusion by using the words "It is meaningless to say it does!" -- without studying the technology of the presentor -- is not a scientific approach. Would you agree that the energy in electromagnetic phenomena IS _mechanical energy_ -- consisting of "matter-in-motion" -- and that the "Lines of Force" are indeed PHYSICAL? Would you please be so kind as to fundamentally, mechanically explain Fleming's Rule? Would you please be so kind as to fundamentally, mechanically explain Magnetic Attraction and Repulsion? Dr. Robert Smith was the Chief of the Orbital & Space Environmental Branch of the Aerospace Environment Division, Space Sciences Laboratory at NASA. I believe he is now retired from NASA. Joseph Newman may have a current address for him: Joseph Newman may be reached at (601) 947-7147. [Best times to call are generally 9:30-10:30am/9-10pm M-F Central Time.] In addition, two personal letters from Dr. Smith are included in Joseph Newman's fundamental book, The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman. Sincerely, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 josephnewman@earthlink.net http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 08:28:35 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA32676; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:27:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:27:26 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 19:25:15 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Lines: 8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_WkzA2.0.P-7.idijo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/796 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If it is free energy list why the Clinton's order of Dec.13 about alternative fuel that is the beginning of official attention of the government to free energy did not produced an expresion of joi here? --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 08:28:44 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA32728; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:27:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:27:40 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 19:25:28 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Why? Lines: 8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_FNBE3.0.D_7.tdijo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/797 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If it is free energy list why the Clinton's order of Dec.13 about alternative fuel that is the beginning of official attention of the government to free energy did not produced an expresion of joi here? --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 08:52:23 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA04345; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:51:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:51:37 -0800 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:56:59 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961217104911.40ef9046@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: re: Create ball lightning w/ kitchen microwave oven Resent-Message-ID: <"7QOOd.0.j31.O-ijo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/798 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:05 AM 12/17/96 CDT, you wrote: > > > Anyone here done this yet ? > > > "...Although I am hoping for some other types of ball lightning to > emerge > such as strictly electrostatic-electromagnetic manifestations, > I have been > unlucky in finding laboratory provable evidence. > Cavity-formed plasmodes > can be made by putting a 2-inch burning candle > in a home kitchen microwave > oven. The plasmodes float around for as > long as the microwave energy is > > present." > > > > > works beautifully. except a one inch candle in a crystal candle holder. > and on several attempts, it did appear to require that three inch > crystal holder of the wife's (our oldest daughter speculates it's a > crystal focus, (lead crystal) as other attempts with ceramics and mom's > corell wear ware were unsuccessful (yes, i know, i have wonderful wife > to donate her kitchen for this impromptu stuff ...) > > an excellent before dinner science project with the children (back > across the kitchen with goggles on, they were so cute :) ). small > breeze in the cavity (due to the cooling fan i would imagine.) bees wax > candle (tinted pink with some unknown dye) the microwave, 750 watt, > rotating type, rotating platform removed. every few seconds the > flickering flame would "plasma ball", rising up, left, behind, of the > standing flame. excellent audio accompaniment. (you should have seen > the face on the eight year old the first time , however i bet you > all can imagine the look on the wife :) - a note here, her comment > about what appeared to be a bit of something as those balls > flashed. "hmmmm. clean. " (the ceiling of that > cavity showing no signs of any anything, and we would swear there was a > bit of black at the moment of the event). > > well, thought i'd share. and if i may? an additional curiosity. is > this phenomenon scaleable? that's what the conversation turned to over > last night's dinner. does the phenomenon in that cavity scale? linear? > log? step?. so, what happens with two, three, four, five, > ... candles? > > however in this curiosity, my wife does have her limits of tolerance > regarding the diversion of her kitchen appliances,and dishware ... > (thank all that is :) ) > > > stephen > I am curious if there is a microwave focal point that the crytal candle holder elevated it to, where the other (tuber ware,ceramic ware) positioned it out of the focal point cavity in of the microwave, thanks Mike S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 08:56:15 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA05162; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:55:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:55:09 -0800 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:54:58 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sharing the Knowledge In-Reply-To: <199612171358.FAA26689@mx1.eskimo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-h5e81.0.ZG1.h1jjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/799 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 17 Dec 1996, Gene Batten wrote: > The following post is an excellent idea. An organized list of known > devices and designs would be a great way to follow and document the > various activities that are going on around the world in this exciting > field. > > If time permitted, I would volunteer to start and administer such a > list, however, work and other committments will not allow me to do that. > > Perhaps somone else on this freenrg-l list is willing, and has the time > and resources to start and administer such a list (or web site). > > Gene Batten > mdleb@nortel.ca The subscribers made a start at this months ago, in the form of a FAQ, and the result is at http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/devlist.html If anyone would like to post additions here, I will move them to this file. Perhaps I can use a CGI script to automate this. > > In message "Sharing the Knowledge", you write: > > > JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > >To spread quickly the thinking process in the world, I suggest to provide > > >this kind of documents : > > > > >- an "Easy make-it-yourself experiment" document to prove existence of Free > > >Energy > > >- a "Build yourself a Free Energy generator" document > > > > > > I am amazed by the current state of "Free Energy" research in general. > > Much time is spent revisiting designs which have been shown not to > > provide clearly over unity operation, while other designs remain largely > > unknown. > > > > Clearly the best evidence for true over unity operation is evidenced by > > a device that > > provides ANY energy output, without external energy input, or chemical > > batteries. Such designs do exist, and one is available on Bill's web > > site. > > > > I think that the community at large would be far better off if a list of > > known devices and designs were complied, with as complete documentation > > as practical. Each design should also be given a pair of documents, one > > each from a proponent, and from > > a detractor, stating why this device is, or is not a true over unity > > design with all > > the actual test data and referances, etc. > > > > Such a master referance avaiable on the web could save researchers > > countless time currently wasted in finding information, and duplicating > > devices which do not work. > > Such a referance would also serve to direct the limited resources of the > > field as a whole towards devices which show promise for true over unity > > operation. > > > > At the very least, one of the organizations should make such a master > > referances avaialble for a fee. > > > > > .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 09:25:09 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA12716; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:23:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:23:10 -0800 Message-ID: <32B6D77E.6153@plix.com> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:25:18 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) Reply-To: redorman@plix.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mlVgj3.0.Q63.sRjjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/800 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > > If it is free energy list why the Clinton's order of Dec.13 about > alternative fuel that is the beginning of official attention of the > government to free energy did not produced an expresion of joi here? > > --- > Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia > Tel:7-812-2747877 I was the one who posted President Clinton's declaration, because I thought it would be of general interest. However, in our country, the USA, many people (myself included) have become cynical of the apparent well-meaning government activities, because they frequently prove to be not in the people's best interests, but in the government's best interest. We, according to our Constitution, are supposed to have a government that is controlled by the people; not a people that is controlled by the government (like so many other countries in the world). Gradually, over the years, this ideal has eroded to the point where our "leaders" often ignore the constitutional rights of the people to further their own power and control. I am proud of our country and its people, but I am not proud of some of the things our "leaders" have done and are doing. Fortunately, we still have the right to vote, and if enough of us can ignore the government-generated propaganda and government-manipulated press and news services and vote these people out of office, we can get the country back to where it ought to be. In my opinion, the alternative energy order is only a public-relations gimmick to make the people think the president is doing one thing while he is really doing something else (getting more cozy with the big oil companies). Perhaps my cynacism is shared by others and that is why they havn't responded "with joy." --Bob From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 09:34:51 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA16976; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:33:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:33:24 -0800 Message-ID: <32B6E7E9.3DB7@gorge.net> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:35:21 -0800 From: tom@gorge.net (Tom Miller) Reply-To: tom@gorge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Why? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3aeWH3.0.194.Ubjjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/801 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The reason Mr. Clinton's executive order did not elicit expressions of joy is that nobody really believes it. It will probablyonly mean that we will waste tax money on overpriced GM electric cars, and cars and trucks fueled by compressed natural gas. This may be hoped to have, AT BEST, a minor effect on air quality in some big cities. It has nothing to do with free energy, which is the attempt to obtain energy from sources which do not pollute, and are not controlled by the Government, or anybody else. That is, you don't have to pay for it, nor is it controlled by someone else. Tom Miller From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 10:03:31 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA24744; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:01:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:01:45 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:00:58 -0500 Message-ID: <961217130056_1887451845@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE> Adams Motor (PART 3) (Electronic controler diagram) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.517.emout07.mail.aol.com.850845656" Resent-Message-ID: <"gsw0O.0.F26.50kjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/802 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.517.emout07.mail.aol.com.850845656 Content-ID: <0_517_850845656@emout07.mail.aol.com.32384> Content-type: text/plain >From : Jean-Louis Naudin To : Alan Schneider Dear Alan, You have in attached document : A GIF picture of my Adams Motor controler electronic diagram (version of (Sept 96)). Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin JNaudin509@aol.com --PART.BOUNDARY.0.517.emout07.mail.aol.com.850845656 Content-ID: <0_517_850845656@emout07.mail.aol.com.32385> Content-type: image/gif; name="ADMSCTL.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlh7wLdAYAAAAAAAP///ywAAAAA7wLdAQAC+4SPqcvtD6OctNqLs968+w+G4kiW5omm KhMEQAvH8kzX9o3n+s73/g8MCofEovGITCqXzKbzCY1Kp7SXi4rNarfcrvcLDovH5LIZZrWe 1+y2+w2Py+f0OjBtz+v3/L7/DxjYhCdYaHiImKi4yOhD2AgZKTlJWWmp9HipucnZ6flJlwk6 SlpqeorKI5rK2ur6Cmu4Gktba3uLqzWby9vr+wsssxtMXGx87DmMvMzc7Oyn/Cw9TV39FW2d rb3NLYTdDR4uzv09bn6OXlyezt7u7rr+Lj9Pfxlfj5+vL3i/7/8P8E2/gHwUoEHwS40LhApb NCTIbiDEPArVVHz1+/BgjIoPM040J/FjqI1oSMKzYcCkwyslRbYL6TLORYcIMdZ4wfHAypYx 0cHs6cYgTZ02Z2RKwNMjUHI7l/JrClXppwUmZ+786dQY1qxlLPKEmqojUpZJyXIFt/WsGK9g pY6SyrasW7XS0tK9ptIqK7gqzc6968xu3RUVrtUkNrYP4cWMGzvW8ERw4DV/AQe1nKVyEMnN NGfGvMczaCKiHYF9V3pK6tFhVrM27YQzM9dQaL/mYvt2jtw3ZC/jzQS4btXDY0c+vU2osB1U FxJ1nnJo9N59i3eFbVRKQ7fCexxGWeS7d+zkl/ju5XH10aZxzVYZap1y+a/Gq2f//Ez/vjf7 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smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA28136; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:12:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:12:55 -0800 From: meyersr@norand.com Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 12:14:23 CDT Message-Id: <9611178508.AA850853709@smtpgate.norand.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re[2]: Create ball lightning w/ kitchen microwave oven Resent-Message-ID: <"owvV03.0.Ut6.aAkjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/803 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > > Anyone here done this yet ? > > > "...Although I am hoping for some other types of ball lightning to > emerge > such as strictly electrostatic-electromagnetic manifestations, > I have been > unlucky in finding laboratory provable evidence. > Cavity-formed plasmodes > can be made by putting a 2-inch burning candle > in a home kitchen microwave > oven. The plasmodes float around for as > long as the microwave energy is > > present." > > > > . . . > > works beautifully. except a one inch candle in a crystal candle holder. > and on several attempts, it did appear to require that three inch > > > stephen > >>> I am curious if there is a microwave focal point that the crystal candle >>> holder elevated it to, where the other (tuber ware,ceramic ware) >>> positioned it out of the focal point cavity in of the microwave, >>> thanks Mike S. mike, that's my speculation. i seriously doubt that the shape of those candle holders' of my wife had anything to do with it. in attempts to locate that candle at the same point we came close, but really failed. close is within a centimeter or so. not really close at all, i realize. and as this cavity presumes a rotating plate, which we removed, i would imagine there are certainly significant focal points in that cavity ... stephen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 10:23:20 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA30629; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:22:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:22:19 -0800 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:27:38 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961217121950.12ef1670@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: Re: Re[2]: Create ball lightning w/ kitchen microwave oven Resent-Message-ID: <"1PNYY2.0.PU7.PJkjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/804 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:14 PM 12/17/96 CDT, you wrote: > >> >> >> Anyone here done this yet ? >> >> > "...Although I am hoping for some other types of ball lightning to >> emerge > such as strictly electrostatic-electromagnetic manifestations, >> I have been > unlucky in finding laboratory provable evidence. >> Cavity-formed plasmodes > can be made by putting a 2-inch burning candle >> in a home kitchen microwave > oven. The plasmodes float around for as >> long as the microwave energy is >> > present." >> > >> >> >> works beautifully. except a one inch candle in a crystal candle holder. >> and on several attempts, it did appear to require that three inch >> >> >> stephen >> > >>>> I am curious if there is a microwave focal point that the crystal candle >>>> holder elevated it to, where the other (tuber ware,ceramic ware) >>>> positioned it out of the focal point cavity in of the microwave, >>>> thanks Mike S. > > > mike, > > that's my speculation. i seriously doubt that the shape of those candle > holders' of my wife had anything to do with it. in attempts to locate > that candle at the same point we came close, but really failed. close > is within a centimeter or so. not really close at all, i realize. and > as this cavity presumes a rotating plate, which we removed, i would > imagine there are certainly significant focal points in that cavity ... > > > stephen Hello Stephen maybe your Daughters right, in the sense that maybe the crystal lead glass is acting like a wave guide, or resonates at a different harmonic especially if the Microwave is rich in Harmonics, and it transmutes the frequency to the new resonant freq and power along with it. What do you think about that??? Thank Mike S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 10:46:52 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA03707; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:45:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:45:30 -0800 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:44:53 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199612171844.MAA04667@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"VsH8s1.0.pv.8fkjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/805 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > >Would you agree that the energy in electromagnetic phenomena IS _mechanical >energy_ -- consisting of "matter-in-motion" -- and that the "Lines of >Force" are indeed PHYSICAL? > Energy is a PHYSICAL phenomenon. Space, energy and matter are MADE UP OF motion - "only this and nothing more" (Apologies to Edgar Allen Poe.) "Lines of force" are only geometric attempts at a representation of a physical cause/effect relationship. They do not actually exist. See GEOMETRODYNAMICS by John Archibald Wheeler. The trick we are trying to accomplish with "free energy devices" (or "space energy receivers", if you will) is to take the more finely dispersed background motion which makes up space itself, and condense or accumulate it into a denser representation which we call "energy". A further densification would render it "mass". Also see TAPPING THE ZERO-POINT ENERGY by Moray B. King. Zack -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 10:50:22 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA04838; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:49:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:49:23 -0800 Message-ID: <32B6EBC3.3A22@plix.com> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:51:47 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) Reply-To: redorman@plix.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sharing the Knowledge References: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------72F2629079E1" Resent-Message-ID: <"6v3IV1.0.UB1.mikjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/806 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------72F2629079E1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit William Beaty wrote: > > snip > The subscribers made a start at this months ago, in the form of a FAQ, and > the result is at http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/devlist.html > > If anyone would like to post additions here, I will move them to this > file. Perhaps I can use a CGI script to automate this. > I would like the attached liag.txt file to be included in your free-energy FAQ. --Bob --------------72F2629079E1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="Liag.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Liag.txt" Low Inertia Armature Generator (LIAG) for Greater Power Efficiency by Robert E. Dorman March 22, 1996 Reformated for E-Mail 7/15/96 **************************************************************** C O P Y R I G H T N O T I C E Copyright 1996 This paper, in printed or electronic form, is copyrighted and may not be reproduced for sale, in whole or part, without the author's written permission. However, it may be freely copied and distributed in its entirety, without alteration, with full credit given for its authorship. **************************************************************** The generator design described I have placed in the public domain so that its usefulness might be proven as quickly as possible. Anyone is free to experiment with or market this device without any exclusive rights or license. **************************************************************** ABSTRACT A Low Inertia Armature Generator (LIAG) is introduced. This is an electric power generator with stationary coils and magnets, but with a rotating perforated magnetic shield between them, which should eliminate magnetic counterforce when under load. This allows for a light-weight armature and the possibility of greater than 100% efficiency, as Lenz's Law does not apply when there is no relative movement of the coil with respect to the magnetic field. 1.0 CONVENTIONAL GENERATOR THEORY 1.1 Configuration Conventional generators use either a stationary magnetic field (either permanent magnets or electromagnets) and a rotating coil armature), or they use a stationary coil (stator) and a rotating magnetic field. For simplicity sake, we will assume permanent magnets provide a fixed magnetic field for both the conventional generator and the LIAG. Coils of wire, wound upon laminated soft iron cores, make up the armature in the conventional generator. The mechanical input to the conventional generator is a rotary movement coupled to the armature shaft and the electrical output is taken from the armature coil through brushes. 1.2 Induction Theory Conventional electrical theory has it that electricity is produced, or more correctly, induced, in a coil of wire moving through a magnetic field (or, if you will, a magnetic field moving through a coil of wire). This is a simplification, or special case of the more general phenomena governed by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction, which describes the electrical effect of a changing magnetic field. The induction of electric current in the moving coil (connected to an appropriate electrical load, of course) is not so much an effect of the relative movement of the coil with respect to the magnet as it is of the CHANGE in the magnetic field that is seen by the coil. Since the function of an electric generator is to change mechanical power into electrical power, the movement of the coil in the magnetic field (or vice-versa), as the mechanical input, is a logical choice--but not the ONLY one possible. 2.0 CONVENTIONAL GENERATOR PROBLEMS 2.1 Weight A problem with conventional generators, especially large ones, is the heavy weight of the armatures. This contributes to frictional losses in the bearings, maintenance costs, requires a high starting torque, and can require complex and costly support structures. 2.2 Magnetic counterforce A more important loss, perhaps, occurs as a result of the phenomena described by Lenz's law: The induced current will appear in such a direction that it opposes the change that produced it. That mechanical agent which turns the armature coil (which is wired to an electrical load so that the circuit is completed and current will flow) in the magnetic field, will encounter an opposing force, requiring mechanical force to be used to overcome it to turn the coil. To put it briefly, to get electricity out we have to put mechanical work in. 3.0 LIAG DESIGN 3.1 Mechanical configuration A LIAG has a rotating perforated magnetic shield that spins between a stationary magnetic field (for our purposes, and for greatest efficiency, made up of permanent rare earth supermagnets) and stationary coils (wound upon laminated soft iron cores). This shield alternately passes and blocks the magnetic field and thereby induces an electric current in the coils. 3.2 Theory of operation The moving component, the magnetic shield, has negligible current flow through it, so there is no force opposing its motion due to electromagnetic induction, as there is with the conventional generator with its moving coils. Lenz's law does not apply because there is no moving coil or magnet to act upon. Because the shield is made from metals that have some magnetic properties, there should be a modest amount of magnetic drag as the metallic portions of the shield pass by the magnets. It should be emphasized that this opposing force, like the even lesser frictional force, is independent of the electrical load. Therefore, as the load is increased, the mechanical power rotating the armature does not have to increase accordingly. One can conclude, then, that with a modest mechanical power input sufficient to maintain an appropriate rotational velocity against the opposing forces of friction and magnetic drag, a power output could be produced that would only be limited by the strength of the magnetic field and the current carrying capacity of the wire coils. 3.3 Magnetic shield The main component of the shield is one or more layers of mu- metal [this may be a trade name, but is mentioned here in the context of a family of alloys commercially used for magnetic shielding]. This is a thin, light weight metal alloy that greatly attenuates the magnetic field strength. Although it provides a high degree of magnetic attenuation, it saturates in strong magnetic fields. Soft iron, on the other hand, does not attenuate very well (for the same thickness), but does not saturate as easily in strong magnetic fields. The shield, therefore, should be a laminate of materials, starting with the metal having the least tendency to saturate being next to the magnets and progressing to the metal having the greatest mag- netic attenuation, but poorest saturation characteristic, closer to the coils. The goal is to produce a shield with a maximum of magnetic attenuation, a minimum of saturation, a minimum of magnetic attraction (to cut down on the magnetic drag), and a minimum of thickness (so that a maximum magnetic field strength can reach the coils through the holes in the shield.) The shield, in the course of its rotation, will act as a shutter to rapidly switch on and off the magnetic field reaching the coils, thus inducing current flow. 4.0 CONCLUSION It is hoped that an excitement about the prospects for this power generation method has been kindled. The basic theory and advantages have been given. Detailed design considerations, drawings, experimental procedures, material resources, annotated bibliography of reference sources, and many possible mechanical and electrical configuration diagrams for AC and DC power generation using the LIAG method will be found in my yet to be published book: THE LIAG DESIGN MANUAL, VOL.I-THEORY AND NOTES. AUTHOR'S BACKGROUND I was graduated in 1970 from the State University of New York at Stony Brook with a Bachelor of Engineering degree in engineering science. I have had over twenty years of experience, both as an employee and as an independent contractor, working as an electronics engineer, systems engineer and technical writer. This included work in such fields as reliability engineering, software and hardware development for embedded processor systems, proposal writing, electronic warfare, military communications, satellite systems, weather instrumentation, and ultrasonic dispersive delay line and subsystem design. I have presented technical papers and conducted training seminars. I am presently doing independent research in northeast Washington, working toward a second degree in accounting, doing volunteer work, and am on the board of directors for the North Country People's Cooperative. --------------72F2629079E1-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 11:03:51 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA09432; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 11:02:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 11:02:13 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 14:01:33 -0500 Message-ID: <961217140128_1288530629@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE>Adams Motor PART 1 (overview picture) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.13932.emout01.mail.aol.com.850849288" Resent-Message-ID: <"Qss171.0.FJ2.oukjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/807 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.13932.emout01.mail.aol.com.850849288 Content-ID: <0_13932_850849288@emout01.mail.aol.com.34004> Content-type: text/plain >From : Jean-Louis Naudin To : Alan Schneider on 17/12/1996 14:02:26, you wrote : << It is now a month and a half since we've heard from you about your efforts to replicate the Adams motor. How about an update, Rob? Cheers, Alan >> Dear Alan, I have built recently an Adams motor like based on Nexus Report Paper, You have in attached document a JPEG picture of my device. I send in a next message other pictures, electronics diagrams and measures lab's reports...( I need time to convert my lab's notes into electronic documents...) In attached document : A view of my Adams Motor ((Sept 96) Sincerely Jean-Louis Naudin JNaudin509@aol.com Notes : It's new picture more compressed for the server..... --PART.BOUNDARY.0.13932.emout01.mail.aol.com.850849288 Content-ID: <0_13932_850849288@emout01.mail.aol.com.34005> Content-type: image/jpeg; name="ADAMSMOT.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CAEJAYMDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA 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11:02:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 11:02:31 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 14:01:42 -0500 Message-ID: <961217140141_2018670917@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE>Adams Motor PART 2 (Opto-controler picture) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.517.emout07.mail.aol.com.850849301" Resent-Message-ID: <"J0Scb2.0.HK2.2vkjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/808 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.517.emout07.mail.aol.com.850849301 Content-ID: <0_517_850849301@emout07.mail.aol.com.32826> Content-type: text/plain >From : Jean-Louis Naudin To : Alan Schneider Dear Alan, You have in attached document : A JPEG picture of my Adams Motor's opto-detector (version of (Sept 96)) needed for a correct synchro. phase. 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Dec 1996 11:47:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 11:47:13 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 14:45:08 -0500 Message-ID: <961217144507_168815529@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Resent-Message-ID: <"QnV56.0.dk5.XYljo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/809 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>I would suggest that to arrive at a conclusion by using the words "It is meaningless to say it does!" -- without studying the technology of the presentor -- is not a scientific approach.>>> It IS meaningless for an elementary particle to have any spin (Although, as I said before there is a thing called spin, but it has nothing to do with classical spin.). Spin is only a group of particles revolving around a single point. If there is only ONE particle (that cannot be brokeninto more particles) than it CAN NOT have spin! Also, if Newman's idea had ANY scientific merit, it would be wide spread and seriously considred by main-stream science (Not psuedoscience). Since that has not happened, one is forced to conclude that it is wrong! And don't give me that bull about main-stream science refusing to take it seriously....that is just not the case. There have been many examples to far out ideas like Newmans, for example black holes were thought absured, but the idea was studied and found out to be correct. I suggest you try to publish your idea in a respectable science journal, and see what there comments are when it gets rejected. -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 12:04:52 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA25728; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 11:55:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 11:55:38 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 14:51:44 -0500 Message-ID: <961217145140_168815545@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Create ball lightning w/ kitchen microwave oven Resent-Message-ID: <"WbYVK2.0.-F6.-fljo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/810 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>that's my speculation. i seriously doubt that the shape of those candle holders' of my wife had anything to do with it. in attempts to locate that candle at the same point we came close, but really failed. close is within a centimeter or so. not really close at all, i realize. and as this cavity presumes a rotating plate, which we removed, i would imagine there are certainly significant focal points in that cavity ...>>> Could that be why it works better with a rotating microwave? There are more than one focal point and a rotating candle has a better chance of finding one? If this is so, the effect should be seen only at a certain point in the rotation...has anyone observed this? -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 12:08:29 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA28327 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:06:22 -0800 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:06:22 -0800 X-Envelope-From: ben@tammetta.com Tue Dec 17 12:04:13 1996 Received: from mule0.mindspring.com (mule0.mindspring.com [204.180.128.166]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA27685 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:03:49 -0800 Received: from buckwheat (socks1.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.124]) by mule0.mindspring.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA36162 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 20:03:30 GMT Message-ID: <32B70B57.7B4E@tammetta.com> Old-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 16:06:31 -0500 From: Ben Tammetta Reply-To: ben@tammetta.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sharing the Knowledge References: <199612171358.FAA26689@mx1.eskimo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Hello, Gene Batten wrote: > > The following post is an excellent idea. An organized list of known > devices and designs would be a great way to follow and document the > various activities that are going on around the world in this exciting > field. I may be able to help with this. I have developed several web based database applications for fun and profit in my spare time. Since I believe in making free energy available and promoting the development of it this sounds like something worth doing. What I envision is a database maintained by people (such as on this list) through the web. Users will have to register to be able to add, edit or update information pretaining to Free Energy and devices. I don't see this database containing every detail on a particular device. But enough information for directing research. URLs could be submitted or added that point to other web sites that contain construction details or detailed theory. You would be able to search or browse the DB with a web broweser by: Inventor, Device, Energy Type (heat, EM, ZP, etc.)and what ever else you think necessary. I would need to know what Database fields you think important and ideas on how to present the data. Such as: DeviceName, Inventors(s), Date Invented, EnergyInputType, EnergyOutputType, DateInvented, CurrentWorksInProgress SimilarDevices, GeneralTheory, SuccessesClaimed, FailuresClaimed... etc. If enough people on this list believe this is a good idea let me know. I'll pursue this further and can start development in January. The initial design would consist of a few post and emails like this to get feed back. Since the database would be maintained by all no one person will have to keep track on everything. Access to the server would be free, small fee or better yet donatations can help get it going and keep it going. You can see an example here of my work. Cyber Singles at: http://www.clubelite.com (waaayyyy off the subject) But a good example. Semi-publically maintained Free Energy DB Would you find this useful? Ben ben@clubelite.com > > > I am amazed by the current state of "Free Energy" research in general. > > Much time is spent revisiting designs which have been shown not to > > provide clearly over unity operation, while other designs remain largely > > unknown. > > > > > > I think that the community at large would be far better off if a list of > > known devices and designs were complied, with as complete documentation > > as practical. Each design should also be given a pair of documents, one > > each from a proponent, and from > > a detractor, stating why this device is, or is not a true over unity > > design with all > > the actual test data and referances, etc. > > > > Such a master referance avaiable on the web could save researchers > > countless time currently wasted in finding information, and duplicating > > devices which do not work. > > Such a referance would also serve to direct the limited resources of the > > field as a whole towards devices which show promise for true over unity > > operation. > > > > At the very least, one of the organizations should make such a master > > referances avaialble for a fee. > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 12:19:54 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA29730; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:09:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:09:54 -0800 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 21:06:58 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199612172006.VAA12708@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Why? Resent-Message-ID: <"nc8bc3.0.nC7.Ztljo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/811 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >If it is free energy list why the Clinton's order of Dec.13 about >alternative fuel that is the beginning of official attention of the >government to free energy did not produced an expresion of joi here? > Alexander, President Clinton is enforcing a law that was passed some years ago, which deals with pollution from car fuels. The law states, that cars with little or no (zero) emission must be developed and put on the market. I think that the attention of Clinton is not so much on free energy, as on handling the very real problem of pollution of the big cities in the USA. One very positive outcome of this is, that the free energy field will get some attention and alternative fuels (hydrogen, natural gas) as well as electric cars with batteries and electric motors are being seriously developed. But in fact it is not the intention of the executive order to promote free energy as such. Alternative fuels as mentioned are 'clean' fuels, but not necessarily free energy devices as we understand them. Regards - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 12:25:39 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA30878; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:14:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:14:10 -0800 From: meyersr@norand.com Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 14:12:00 CDT Message-Id: <9611178508.AA850860790@smtpgate.norand.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re[4]: Create ball lightning w/ kitchen microwave oven Resent-Message-ID: <"juOj-3.0.LV7._wljo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/812 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: well, mike, i'd think oh, bother, he and kimmie may have a point. so, why not? a quick check over lunch, the wife almost distracted. now with that ordinary drinking glass for a platform in that 750 watt cavity. now, with that candle positioned within, oh, about a tenth of a centimeter now to where it was using that candle holder of hers. and with that, oh yea, nice effect. nice plasma ball. nice enough that the wife is getting a bit skeptical as to the continued value of this personal revelation, know what i mean? :) i'm not think'n we need to verify this again with her tupperware ... stephen >> >> >> >> Anyone here done this yet ? >> >> > "...Although I am hoping for some other types of ball lightning to >> emerge > such as strictly electrostatic-electromagnetic manifestations, >> I have been > unlucky in finding laboratory provable evidence. >> Cavity-formed plasmodes > can be made by putting a 2-inch burning candle >> in a home kitchen microwave > oven. The plasmodes float around for as >> long as the microwave energy is >> > present." >> > >> >> >> works beautifully. except a one inch candle in a crystal candle holder. >> and on several attempts, it did appear to require that three inch >> >> >> stephen >> > >>>> I am curious if there is a microwave focal point that the crystal candle >>>> holder elevated it to, where the other (tuber ware,ceramic ware) >>>> positioned it out of the focal point cavity in of the microwave, >>>> thanks Mike S. > > > mike, > > that's my speculation. i seriously doubt that the shape of those candle > holders' of my wife had anything to do with it. in attempts to locate > that candle at the same point we came close, but really failed. close > is within a centimeter or so. not really close at all, i realize. and > as this cavity presumes a rotating plate, which we removed, i would > imagine there are certainly significant focal points in that cavity ... > > > stephen >> Hello Stephen maybe your Daughters right, in the sense that maybe the >> crystal lead glass is acting like a wave guide, or resonates at a >> different harmonic especially if the Microwave is rich in Harmonics, >> and it transmutes the frequency to the new resonant freq and >> power along with it. >> >> What do you think about that??? >> Thank Mike S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 13:08:20 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA16116; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:06:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:06:04 -0800 Message-ID: <32B70B33.36E0@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 11:06:00 -1000 From: Rick Monteverde X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 References: <961217144507_168815529@emout13.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ESCil3.0.gx3.uimjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/813 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: [snip] > It IS meaningless for an elementary particle to have any spin (Although, as I > said before there is a thing called spin, but it has nothing to do with > classical spin.). Spin is only a group of particles revolving around a single > point. If there is only ONE particle (that cannot be brokeninto more > particles) than it CAN NOT have spin! Electrons have magnetic moment. This is their "spin". Isn't this what Neumann means? > Also, if Newman's idea had ANY scientific merit, it would be wide spread and > seriously considred by main-stream science (Not psuedoscience). Since that > has not happened, [snip] > -Adam Grossman Good ideas sometimes flounder for years outside the orthodoxy of their respective fields, including science. For generations sometimes. But that really doesn't matter. Whether an idea (theory) is good or not doesn't depend on whether certain nabobs of academia "accept" it, but whether it can be used repeatedly to predict and engineer specific desirable outcomes across as wide a range of circumstances as possible. I'm not siding with Newman here, either. I'm just saying the test for this has nothing to do with what's accepted out there, but with the capability of the idea to guide the development of duplicated, successful over-unity devices. Has this happened? No, TMK. Has Newman been able to convincingly measure and demonstrate more energy out to that consumed? TMK again, no. Duplication and proper measurement, that's the only real test. The acceptance issue you mention is so rife with politics, belief systems, and funding issues as to be rendered almost completely worthless for anything but the roughest indication of the likelyhood of a theory or device being useful or valid. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 13:25:24 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA20452; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:22:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:22:22 -0800 Message-Id: <199612172121.QAA02095@transfer.stratus.com> From: Charlie Hodgson Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 15:52:44 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 In-Reply-To: <961217144507_168815529@emout13.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.22 (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"8v7_J.0.L_4.Aymjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/814 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In <961217144507_168815529@emout13.mail.aol.com>, on 12/17/96 at 02:45 PM, AdamGrosmn@aol.com said: >>>>I would suggest that to arrive at a conclusion by using the words "It is >meaningless to say it does!" -- without studying the technology of the >presentor -- is not a scientific approach.>>> >It IS meaningless for an elementary particle to have any spin (Although, >as I said before there is a thing called spin, but it has nothing to do >with classical spin.). Spin is only a group of particles revolving around >a single point. If there is only ONE particle (that cannot be brokeninto >more particles) than it CAN NOT have spin! If you believe in superstrings then there is no reason why Newman's 'particle' cannot exist. A superstring particle would exhibit rotation around a center point and have spin. In supersting theory all particles are made up of strings at various energy levels. You're looking at this from the point of mainstream physics of when I was in college 20 years ago. I would would venture to guess that 95% of what we are being taught now will be proven wrong or incorrect in the next 20 years. What you fail to realize is that science knows so little about the nature of our universe. I personally don't believe that any of it is neccessarily true. The principles 'work' and fit together nicely (for the most part), but that in itself does not make it correct. Why is it always the small minds that voice the loudest opposition to novel ideas? If the mechanics of Newman's gyroscopic particle work with that which is considered to be 'true', than it has as much merit as any other theory. Possibly Newman has hit a new plattaue. Einstein did it with Newtonian physics, we still use newton's laws. Electronics is still to this day depicted as the positive moving to the negative though we all know it is not true. But as long as you use it as you point of reference it serves it's purpose. >far out ideas like Newmans, for example black holes were thought >absured, but the idea was studied and found out to be correct. While 'black holes' have been identified, nothing is known about them. This is not a good argument to prove your point. There are too many theories about just what they are. Charlie -- Does Microsoft mean "small and limp"? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 13:28:30 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA20937; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:24:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:24:35 -0800 Message-ID: <32B6C930.73EF@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 16:24:16 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HquKN.0._65.F-mjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/815 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: When I had asked: >Could you please provide referances for this accounting of this discovery? >I had thought that the establishment refused to see any connection between >electrostatics and magnetic fields, but I may be quite wrong here. > Mr. Soule responded: >You are correct when you state that the establishment refused to see any >connection between electrostatics and magnetic fields (up to the time of >Oersted's having to reckon with his student's "goof"...which is why Joseph >Newman wrote the following: Hmmmm, I see. I had read this all the first time actually, and was asking for any referances to this particular version of the events. Again, if you please Mr. Soule, can you provide any referances to support this accounting of events? I have read a quite different accounting of this discovery. And when I posed a series of questions such as: >Is it possible to conduct an experiment with the photoelectric effect where >we lower the pressure of light, and then detect wave-like behavior? > >Is it possible to perform an interferance experiment where the pressure is >lowered, and observe particle like behavior? Mr. Soule responded with yet another question: >Question with respect to the wave/particle aspects of light: (so that one >may know with what you are or not already familiar): Have you had an >opportunity to read Joseph Newman's book? And when asked: >May I ask what the current position of Newman Energy Products is on the >video taped demonstration of Mr. Newman's Two Coil Experiment? > >It has been claimed that this experiment shows only classical phenomena, >while Mr. Newman has claimed that this experiment shows something quite >different. > >What's the honest truth here? Mr. Soule responded: >To Bob Shannon: Since you have brought up the Two Coil Experiment, I will >hence separately send two collections of emails relative to this and other >(related) areas of interest which may better enable one to understand this >discussion. These are respectively entitled, "Email Interchanges, Part A" >and "Email Interchanges, Part B." I carefully read these exchanges, and found them quite interesting. Babby Matherne made an excellent point. I do not find the point to be purely semantic however. The internal model we adopt for Ampers law has everything to do with how we might interpret experimental evidence. This is especially important where the Two Coil Experiment is concerned. Mr. Newman has developed the understanding that some special advantage may be had by using more copper and less current than in conventional designs. Becuase the total energy to reach full field intensity was not measured, it appeared that some advantage was present, but careful measurments show something quite different, also inductors of the same value, but widely different masses have identical energy storage capability for the same total energy input. Mr. Newman's special advantage simply disappears. A more massive inductor may be able to handel a higher maximum input energy than a less massive inductor of the same indutance. But the more massive inductor has no more stored energy than the less massive one for the same total energy input. The simple fact that inductors may be constructed with identical electrical inductances, but widely differing masses clearly shows that mass is not a factor in the energy stored by the magnetic field. As to the copper or the current being responsible for the magnetic field, I must point out that a current can pass through a vacuum (as in a vacuum tube) and produce the same magnetic field that would result from that same current flowing through a copper conductor. How then can the mass of the coil be relavant? Doyle P. Henderson wrote: >Instead of using classical physics and elecytro-magnetic theory, which some >of you keep advancing to explain the two-coil experiment as if no one knew >all that..... Joe explained the experiment by using a different >explanation..... a different concept .... Ahh, but which one best describes the actual phenomena we find? The two explainations each say quite diffent things, and they cannot both be right. Mr. Henderson went on to say: >...but first, please read his book.... so you'll know what your talking about >instead of parroting old stuff that some of us here think just may be wrong. Conventional theory may well be wrong, but we would have to produce some evidence that this is the case. Such evidence is not found in the Newman Two Coil Experiment. Truth is only found by direct experimentation, not by anyone's words alone. We cannot replace a theory which has stood thousands of practical tests with another theory that is not supported by the very experiment in question. You must find an experimental situatuion where conventional theory fails to describe actual experimental results, and then find a new theory that better describes the actual results. This is not the case here. As Mr. Newman's theory says something quite different than what conventional theory states, it's quite easy to test if a more massive inductor has more energy stored in it's field than a less massive inductor of the same inductance, given the same total energy input. Because a current flowing in a vaccum produces the same magnetic field as it would in a copper conductor, of whatever mass, how can we attribute any special advantage to using less current and more copper? The energy stored in the magnetic field is directly proportional to the total energy over time in both cases. Put a given current through copper conductors of increasing masses, and measure the resultant magnetic fields. As we increase the mass of the conductor, do we see an increase in magnetic field energy? The answer is No, I'm afraid we do not. At this point, it is clear which theory fails to describe the reality of the Two Coil Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 13:28:48 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA21557; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:27:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:27:38 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 00:22:20 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: japan and american alternative fuel progress Lines: 11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"U5Uuo3.0.jG5.71njo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/816 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Anybody know that at the same time like Clinton's Order date, Japan government also publish order about alternative (non-oil) fuel systems in energetics? Is this news true? Are japan people are here? --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 13:40:26 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA23646; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:35:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:35:26 -0800 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:34:44 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 In-Reply-To: <961217144507_168815529@emout13.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"NpLrf1.0.4n5.I8njo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/817 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 17 Dec 1996 AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > Also, if Newman's idea had ANY scientific merit, it would be wide spread and > seriously considred by main-stream science (Not psuedoscience). Since that > has not happened, one is forced to conclude that it is wrong! Rejection by mainstream journals is suggestive, but since mainstream science has a well-known tendency to reject new discoveries, I think it is a fallacy to argue as above. The Scientific American refused to take the Wright Brother's discoveries seriously, labled them has hoaxers without first checking out their claims, and argued just as you did: (paraphrasing) If the Wright's had really produced a working aircraft, it would be in all the newspapers. If we reject an idea because others have rejected it, yet we don't first investigate those other rejections to assure ourselves that they were done thoughtfully and reasonably, then we get into a positive feedback loop: each member of society rejects an idea mostly because all the other members reject it. Dr. Thomas Gold has labled this "herd mentality," and accuses mainstream science of frequently supporting herd-think. See his paper, one of the links on CLOSEMINDED SCIENCE webpage, http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/wclose.html > And don't give > me that bull about main-stream science refusing to take it seriously....that > is just not the case. There have been many examples to far out ideas like > Newmans, for example black holes were thought absured, but the idea was > studied and found out to be correct. And many examples of the opposite. Lynn Margulis being ridiculed for years about "jumping genes" and symbiotic genesis of eukaryotic cells, Gold being denied even "floor time" at an astro symposium because his idea that pulsars might be rotating neutron stars was too crazy, the Wright's losing several years in useless struggle against ridicule (they essentially had to take their craft to France before the US stopped laughing at their claimed sucess). I'm not saying Newman is right. If he's right, then how do any modern quantized-field concepts fit into his ideas? How can spinning mechanical particles fit with QED, or wave/particle duality? In order to accept his work, it must be shown how it fits into modern physics, shown which parts of modern physics are wrong, etc. At present it *seems* as if it doesn't fit. But arguing that Newman is wrong because Journals don't take him seriously is falling into the same herd-think mentality which keeps mainstream scientists from researching unconventional topics. "Everybody knows" that o/u devices are always crackpot, therefor any researcher who announces a *sucessful* o/u phenomena will be ridiculed, and subjected to statements like "if your discovery was real, it would be in all the journals," at the same time as his/her work is being rejected by journals. Ask any number of Cold Fusion researchers about how this suppressive social mechanism operates. Ask anyone who tries to do research in parapsychology, antigravity, cryptobiology, heretical archeology, etc. Look into science history for examples where researchers rejected and ignored a discovery, only to have the discovery accepted as valid after years of slow uphill battle. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 14:31:24 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA02198; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 14:23:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 14:23:56 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:21:11 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Resent-Message-ID: <"3TwIx3.0.TW._qnjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/818 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>I would suggest that to arrive at a conclusion by using the words "It is >meaningless to say it does!" -- without studying the technology of the >presentor -- is not a scientific approach.>>> > >It IS meaningless for an elementary particle to have any spin (Although, as I >said before there is a thing called spin, but it has nothing to do with >classical spin.). Spin is only a group of particles revolving around a single >point. If there is only ONE particle (that cannot be brokeninto more >particles) than it CAN NOT have spin! >Also, if Newman's idea had ANY scientific merit, it would be wide spread and >seriously considred by main-stream science (Not psuedoscience). Since that >has not happened, one is forced to conclude that it is wrong! And don't give >me that bull about main-stream science refusing to take it seriously....that >is just not the case. There have been many examples to far out ideas like >Newmans, for example black holes were thought absured, but the idea was >studied and found out to be correct. >I suggest you try to publish your idea in a respectable science journal, and >see what there comments are when it gets rejected. >-Adam Grossman Dear Mr. Grossman, It is fortunate for us and the progress of science that someone such as Galileo would have discounted your above words. Perhaps you have heard of the esteemed and "mainstream" Professor Cesare Cremonini? If not, it is because his intellectual dishonesty blinded him to sincere scientific curiosity and inquiry. Professor Cremonini was the "mainstream scientist" who refused --- after repeated pleadings by the young upstart (uncredentialed) Galileo --- to look through Galileo's telescope. Galileo made the audacious claim that there were mountains on the moon. Heresy!!! This went totally counter to the established teachings of Aristotle which, according to the esteemed Professor Cremonini, specifically stated that "all heavenly bodies are perfect spheres and they can have no protuberences." Well, olde Galileo --- upstart and general 'rabble-rouser' that he was --- decided to push the issue: He essentially told Cremonini, "Look, I don't care what Aristotle said --- just come look through my telescope and see the mountains on the moon for yourself." The distinguished, credentialed, mainstream scientist, Professor Cremonini replied, "No, my young, impetuous Galileo --- I will not look through that confounded tube of yours.....but even IF I did, and even IF I DID see mountains on the moon.....I would know that you simply 'enchanted me.'" THIS, Mr. Grossman, is INTELLECTUAL DISHONESTY. You wrote: >Also, if Newman's idea had ANY scientific merit, it would be wide spread and >seriously considred by main-stream science (Not psuedoscience). Since that >has not happened, one is forced to conclude that it is wrong! And don't give >me that bull about main-stream science refusing to take it seriously....that >is just not the case. I would define pseudoscience as consisting of those so-called "accredited" members of a "scientific establishment" who are blinded by their own intellectual dishonesty. Professor Cremonini was a true pseudoscientist. Joseph Newman devotes the entire Chapter 20 in his 470-page book to such pseudoscientists: the Chapter is entitled "Achievement VS Apathy"...he describes in detail the apathy, the convoluted 'run-a-round,' which is typical of much of mainstream pseudoscience. And speaking of these pseudoscientists, the Chapter begins with a quotation from that pioneer in heat and thermodymanics, Joseph Black: "Men of great learning and retirement often contribute little or nothing to the progress of improvement. They spend their time in learning and admiring the inventions of others, without ever proposing a new thought of their own, or ever discovering one useful power in nature." --- Joseph Black To those of you who _are_ intellectually honesty and are not satisfied with the phrase, "It IS meaningless for an elementary particle to have any spin", and who want to openly, honestly and without prejudice investigate the real facts for yourself ---- I invite you to study the work of Joseph Newman. I once again state to Mr. Grossman: Would you agree that the energy in electromagnetic phenomena IS _mechanical energy_ -- consisting of "matter-in-motion" -- and that the "Lines of Force" are indeed PHYSICAL? Would you please be so kind as to fundamentally, mechanically explain Fleming's Rule? Would you please be so kind as to fundamentally, mechanically explain Magnetic Attraction and Repulsion? Joseph Newman HAS presented A SINGLE explicit, mechanical explanation for the above --- which mechanically unifies many heretofore diverse phemonena. Sincerely, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 josephnewman@earthlink.net http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 14:39:57 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA04705; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 14:33:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 14:33:09 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 01:27:59 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Frolov's interpretation for Newman's effect Lines: 62 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aMRJP1.0.781.D-njo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/819 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have a Newman's book and most interesting experimental fact I saw in this book is real discovery that was not marked in any textbook. In several words: Mr. Newman noted that small current in the coil of big size (lot of wire mass) produce very big magnetic field. Calculation of magnetic field that must be produced according to standard electromagnetic theory is not corresponding to real field he observed in a coil. So, power output as a result of EM induction can be higher than power input. What is the reason? Why just small current produce the effect. I saw in his book supposition about special micro-gyroscopical effect for each electron of the wire of the coil. If you have some experience of the work with gyroscopes, you'll have an idea like I had according to Newman's experiments: Small current make a precession of microgyroscopes but it don't make a real motion (current) yet. So, we have to discuss a such sort intermediate state in a wire when electrons of a wire are directed along the wire but current is small. So, power input is small. But all electrons are working already to create the magnetic field! This is the principle point: Conventional theory consider magnetic field as a result of a current. But really it is a result of co-directional position (statical position) of all orbiting electrons of a wire. So, it is spin-effect. The value of a current (Ampers) is mainly determined by numbers of electrons those are co-directed in a wire. Motion of electrons is not a reason for magnetic field but it is a fact. Just this motion lead to closed loop "source- load". To create overunity it is necessary to avoid this loop and Dr. Bearden wrote about main principles for it. Periodical co-direction position of all electrons of a wire is the reason for magnetic field of a coil that is not connected with electric current in a wire. It is ideal case. In real case some current will take the place but engineer must make a minimun for it. If it is clean, let me make a conclusion. Small periodical electric current in big coil periodically make the co-directed state of electrones of a metal. It means periodical magnetic field as a result. If this coil is a primary coil of a EM transformer, in a secondary coil one can to generate more power output than he used for input. To make a proof for this concept it is necessary to measure the temperature of a primary coil in process of a work. It must be lower than enviromental temperature. Also I assume to measure some chronal effect as a local change of a rate of a time flow in such sort system. Sure, some antigravitation effects can be measured here since heat, time and gravitation are connected. Example from a Nature for it is well-known fact: biosystems are reacting just with small (weak) fields. Strong pulse of field don't produce some reaction but weak pulse is producing reaction. I am interested in joint publication of this interpretation for Newman's effect in a press. But I am not a professional to write the article in sci. language, anybody can help? Nobel prize 50/50!? --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 15:19:04 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA13774; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:09:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:09:08 -0800 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:09:03 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961217170114.372757ee@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: Re: Re[4]: Create ball lightning w/ kitchen microwave oven Resent-Message-ID: <"oid-_3.0.RK3.DVojo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/820 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well gee whiz, get your wife involved, over ride the safety switch have her hold the candle and watch her TURN YOU into a plasma ball in a millisec. :-) Mike S. with a silly sense of humor At 02:12 PM 12/17/96 CDT, you wrote: > > > well, mike, > > i'd think oh, bother, he and kimmie may have a point. so, why not? a > quick check over lunch, the wife almost distracted. now with that > ordinary drinking glass for a platform in that 750 watt cavity. now, > with that candle positioned within, oh, about a tenth of a centimeter > now to where it was using that candle holder of hers. > > and with that, oh yea, nice effect. nice plasma ball. nice enough that > the wife is getting a bit skeptical as to the continued value of this > personal revelation, know what i mean? :) i'm not think'n we need to > verify this again with her tupperware ... > > stephen > >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone here done this yet ? >>> >>> > "...Although I am hoping for some other types of ball lightning to >>> emerge > such as strictly electrostatic-electromagnetic manifestations, >>> I have been > unlucky in finding laboratory provable evidence. >>> Cavity-formed plasmodes > can be made by putting a 2-inch burning candle >>> in a home kitchen microwave > oven. The plasmodes float around for as >>> long as the microwave energy is >>> > present." >>> > >>> >> >>> works beautifully. except a one inch candle in a crystal candle holder. >>> and on several attempts, it did appear to require that three inch >>> >>> >>> stephen >>> >> >>>>> I am curious if there is a microwave focal point that the crystal candle >>>>> holder elevated it to, where the other (tuber ware,ceramic ware) >>>>> positioned it out of the focal point cavity in of the microwave, >>>>> thanks Mike S. >> >> >> mike, >> >> that's my speculation. i seriously doubt that the shape of those candle >> holders' of my wife had anything to do with it. in attempts to locate >> that candle at the same point we came close, but really failed. close >> is within a centimeter or so. not really close at all, i realize. and >> as this cavity presumes a rotating plate, which we removed, i would >> imagine there are certainly significant focal points in that cavity ... >> >> >> stephen > >>> Hello Stephen maybe your Daughters right, in the sense that maybe the >>> crystal lead glass is acting like a wave guide, or resonates at a >>> different harmonic especially if the Microwave is rich in Harmonics, >>> and it transmutes the frequency to the new resonant freq and >>> power along with it. >>> >>> What do you think about that??? >>> Thank Mike S. > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 15:40:05 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA24945; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:38:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:38:25 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 18:37:20 -0500 Message-ID: <961217183719_1221476130@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Resent-Message-ID: <"-fjRS.0.N56.gxojo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/821 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am sure that many ideas go a long time before becoming recognized, but this is only the case for a relatively short period of time after the theory is presented. I got the impression that Newman's idea has been around for a long time and NO ONE is main stream science (as far as I know) has acknowledged it as a viable idea (even if he "claims" that people have and gives us names...what I am looking for is a name, position and a way to contact this person.) -Adam Grossman. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 16:28:36 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA04455 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 16:28:29 -0800 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 16:28:29 -0800 X-Envelope-From: ben@clubelite.com Tue Dec 17 16:28:25 1996 Received: from mule1.mindspring.com (mule1.mindspring.com [204.180.128.167]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA04424 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 16:28:23 -0800 Received: from jumanji ([204.146.156.217]) by mule1.mindspring.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA41498 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 00:28:20 GMT Message-ID: <32B73A27.673F@clubelite.com> Old-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 19:26:15 -0500 From: Ben Tammetta Reply-To: ben@clubelite.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sharing the Knowledge References: <199612171358.FAA26689@mx1.eskimo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Hello, Gene Batten wrote: > > The following post is an excellent idea. An organized list of known > devices and designs would be a great way to follow and document the > various activities that are going on around the world in this exciting > field. I may be able to help with this. I have developed several web based database applications for fun and profit in my spare time. Since I believe in making free energy available and promoting the development of it this sounds like something worth doing. What I envision is a database maintained by people (such as on this list) through the web. Users will have to register to be able to add, edit or update information pretaining to Free Energy and devices. I don't see this database containing every detail on a particular device. But enough information for directing research. URLs could be submitted or added that point to other web sites that contain construction details or detailed theory. You would be able to search or browse the DB with a web broweser by: Inventor, Device, Energy Type (heat, EM, ZP, etc.)and what ever else you think necessary. I would need to know what Database fields you think important and ideas on how to present the data. Such as: DeviceName, Inventors(s), Date Invented, EnergyInputType, EnergyOutputType, DateInvented, CurrentWorksInProgress SimilarDevices, GeneralTheory, SuccessesClaimed, FailuresClaimed... etc. If enough people on this list believe this is a good idea let me know. I'll pursue this further and can start development in January. The initial design would consist of a few post and emails like this to get feed back. Since the database would be maintained by all no one person will have to keep track on everything. Access to the server would be free, small fee or better yet donatations can help get it going and keep it going. You can see an example here of my work. Cyber Singles at: http://www.clubelite.com (waaayyyy off the subject) But a good example. Semi-publically maintained Free Energy DB Would you find this useful? Ben ben@clubelite.com > > > I am amazed by the current state of "Free Energy" research in general. > > Much time is spent revisiting designs which have been shown not to > > provide clearly over unity operation, while other designs remain largely > > unknown. > > > > > > I think that the community at large would be far better off if a list of > > known devices and designs were complied, with as complete documentation > > as practical. Each design should also be given a pair of documents, one > > each from a proponent, and from > > a detractor, stating why this device is, or is not a true over unity > > design with all > > the actual test data and referances, etc. > > > > Such a master referance avaiable on the web could save researchers > > countless time currently wasted in finding information, and duplicating > > devices which do not work. > > Such a referance would also serve to direct the limited resources of the > > field as a whole towards devices which show promise for true over unity > > operation. > > > > At the very least, one of the organizations should make such a master > > referances avaialble for a fee. > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 16:34:18 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA05193; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 16:32:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 16:32:40 -0800 Message-ID: <32B73B1F.406F@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 19:30:23 -0500 From: Ben Tammetta Reply-To: tammetta@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sharing the Knowledge References: <961217144507_168815529@emout13.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"R6XBW1.0.-G1.bkpjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/822 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, Gene Batten wrote: > > The following post is an excellent idea. An organized list of known > devices and designs would be a great way to follow and document the > various activities that are going on around the world in this exciting > field. I may be able to help with this. I have developed several web based database applications for fun and profit in my spare time. Since I believe in making free energy available and promoting the development of it this sounds like something worth doing. What I envision is a database maintained by people (such as on this list) through the web. Users will have to register to be able to add, edit or update information pretaining to Free Energy and devices. I don't see this database containing every detail on a particular device. But enough information for directing research. URLs could be submitted or added that point to other web sites that contain construction details or detailed theory. You would be able to search or browse the DB with a web broweser by: Inventor, Device, Energy Type (heat, EM, ZP, etc.)and what ever else you think necessary. I would need to know what Database fields you think important and ideas on how to present the data. Such as: DeviceName, Inventors(s), Date Invented, EnergyInputType, EnergyOutputType, DateInvented, CurrentWorksInProgress SimilarDevices, GeneralTheory, SuccessesClaimed, FailuresClaimed... etc. If enough people on this list believe this is a good idea let me know. I'll pursue this further and can start development in January. The initial design would consist of a few post and emails like this to get feed back. Since the database would be maintained by all no one person will have to keep track on everything. Access to the server would be free, small fee or better yet donatations can help get it going and keep it going. You can see an example here of my work. Cyber Singles at: http://www.clubelite.com (waaayyyy off the subject) But a good example. Semi-publically maintained Free Energy DB Would you find this useful? Ben ben@clubelite.com > > > I am amazed by the current state of "Free Energy" research in general. > > Much time is spent revisiting designs which have been shown not to > > provide clearly over unity operation, while other designs remain largely > > unknown. > > > > > > I think that the community at large would be far better off if a list of > > known devices and designs were complied, with as complete documentation > > as practical. Each design should also be given a pair of documents, one > > each from a proponent, and from > > a detractor, stating why this device is, or is not a true over unity > > design with all > > the actual test data and referances, etc. > > > > Such a master referance avaiable on the web could save researchers > > countless time currently wasted in finding information, and duplicating > > devices which do not work. > > Such a referance would also serve to direct the limited resources of the > > field as a whole towards devices which show promise for true over unity > > operation. > > > > At the very least, one of the organizations should make such a master > > referances avaialble for a fee. > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 17:17:10 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA14849; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:15:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:15:05 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 20:15:45 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Resent-Message-ID: <"jAUvv1.0.wd3.NMqjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/823 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I am sure that many ideas go a long time before becoming recognized, but this >is only the case for a relatively short period of time after the theory is >presented. I got the impression that Newman's idea has been around for a long >time and NO ONE is main stream science (as far as I know) has acknowledged it >as a viable idea (even if he "claims" that people have and gives us >names...what I am looking for is a name, position and a way to contact this >person.) >-Adam Grossman. Mr. Grossman, There are several issues here. First issue: please feel free to correct me if my interpretation is incorrect, but it appears to me as though you are not willing to accept or even consider a new idea unless it has the 'stamp of approval' from someone with a "name, position and a way to contact this person." I guess this is perhaps a fundamental perspective in which you and I would differ. I evaluate an idea/concept on its own merits. I don't care if Joseph Newman was the only person in the entire universe who believed in his concepts: I would still evaluate them on their own and not require "references." [Regarding Dr. Smith: I have indicated that you can contact Joseph Newman at (601) 947-7147 if you would like to reach Dr. Smith. Or go through NASA. Either way, for me, this is not the point. And since this is your request, send me a self-addressed, 2-stamped envelope (to Evan Soule', P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157) and I will send you copies of the letters from Dr. Smith appearing in Joseph Newman book.] Second issue: The Temporal Issue. You wrote: >I am sure that many ideas go a long time before becoming recognized, but this >is only the case for a relatively short period of time after the theory is >presented. What's long to an individual (20-50 years) is but a blink of an eye on the cosmic time scale. Joseph Newman first publicly presented his ideas in the first Edition of his fundamental book in 1984. That was 12 years ago. To some people that's a long time. To other people this is no time at all. But again, Mr. Grossman --- this is NOT the issue. Time is NOT the issue. Whether an idea takes 5 minutes or 50 years to be accepted can be as much a reflection of the level of curiosity and intellectual honesty on the part of the receiver as it can be on the part of the issuer. One reason it has taken 12+ years is because of individuals with your attitude. I am not intending this as an insult (and I hope you don't receive it as such)....it is simply a fact. If the world was comprised of people with the intellectual honesty and curiousity of Galileo, it probably would have only taken 60 seconds! Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis first presented his revolutionary idea for the TOTAL cure of puerperal fever in 1846. Dr. Semmelweis died on August 13, 1865: after battling the medical establishment (especially pseudoscienced, "credentialed" so-called scientists who viciously attacked him and actively tried to ruin him) for NINETEEN YEARS to have his revolutionary Theory accepted. He died believing he was unsuccessful. It was not until 1881 --- over _THIRTY-FIVE YEARS_ SINCE THE INTRODUCTION OF SEMMELWEIS'S REVOLUTIONARY THEORY --- that his Theory became accepted in hospitals across Europe. THIRTY-FIVE YEARS was _more_ than a lifetime to Dr. Semmelweis -- who died a brokenhearted, frustrated, beaten man (he committed suicide). Doctors across the planet now employ his revolutionary techniques. What really irks me is that if Dr. Semmelweis has not been so attacked and ridiculed for his ideas, who knows what else he might have lived to innovate? As a result of the vicious, intellectual dishonesty of those small minds who attacked Dr. Semmelweis --- we are all losers. I ask this question to anyone in general (not directed specifically at you, Mr. Grossman): WHAT THE HELL ARE PEOPLE SO AFRAID OF??????? It is obvious that we NOW have an energy system which is expensive and slowly (or rapidly, depending upon one's perspective) adding to the pollution of the entire planet!!! Why not give inventors such as Joseph Newman _every_ encouragement possible? If they are wrong --- NO ONE has more to lose than such inventors! They will be relegated to the "dungheap of oblivion" and they will have wasted their entire lives. This would be a worse fate than anything a detractor could ever say. But if they are right .... ah! All of us will benefit, and our children, and our children's children...... Sincerely, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 josephnewman@earthlink.net http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 P.S. To Mr. Grossman: I once again state to Mr. Grossman: The energy in electromagnetic phenomena IS _mechanical energy_ -- consisting of "matter-in-motion" -- and that the "Lines of Force" are indeed PHYSICAL. Joseph Newman HAS presented A SINGLE explicit, mechanical explanation for Fleming's Rule and Magnetic Attraction/Repulsion --- which mechanically unifies many heretofore diverse phemonena. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 17:33:35 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA18413; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:32:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:32:10 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 20:32:56 -0600 To: bshannon@tiac.net From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"Nh67s1.0.YV4.Ncqjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/824 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon writes: >When I had asked: > >>Could you please provide referances for this accounting of this discovery? >>I had thought that the establishment refused to see any connection between >>electrostatics and magnetic fields, but I may be quite wrong here. >> >Mr. Soule responded: > >>You are correct when you state that the establishment refused to see any >>connection between electrostatics and magnetic fields (up to the time of >>Oersted's having to reckon with his student's "goof"...which is why Joseph >>Newman wrote the following: > > >Hmmmm, I see. I had read this all the first time actually, and was >asking for any referances to this particular version of the events. >Again, if you please Mr. Soule, can you provide any referances to >support this accounting of events? I have read a quite different >accounting of this discovery. Joseph Newman has indicated that one of the sources for the Oersted discussion is from the Life Science Library Book entitled "Energy." He adds that the 'refusal to see' in question was not only between "electrostatics" and "magnetic fields" but between "electricity" and "magnetic fields." > snip--- >Mr. Soule responded with yet another question: > >>Question with respect to the wave/particle aspects of light: (so that one >>may know with what you are or not already familiar): Have you had an >>opportunity to read Joseph Newman's book? And as I indicated in my question, to repeat: "so that one may know with what you are or (are) not already familiar" --- have you read his book? > >And when asked: > >>May I ask what the current position of Newman Energy Products is on the >>video taped demonstration of Mr. Newman's Two Coil Experiment? >> >>It has been claimed that this experiment shows only classical phenomena, >>while Mr. Newman has claimed that this experiment shows something quite >>different. >> >>What's the honest truth here? > >Mr. Soule responded: > >>To Bob Shannon: Since you have brought up the Two Coil Experiment, I will >>hence separately send two collections of emails relative to this and other >>(related) areas of interest which may better enable one to understand this >>discussion. These are respectively entitled, "Email Interchanges, Part A" >>and "Email Interchanges, Part B." > >I carefully read these exchanges, and found them quite interesting. You wrote: >As to the copper or the current being responsible for the magnetic >field, I must point out that a current can pass through a vacuum (as in >a vacuum tube) and produce the same magnetic field that would result >from that same current flowing through a copper conductor. Remember that "current" ALSO consists of gyroscopic particles which are fundamental to magnetic fields. Joseph Newman makes the point that the gyroscopic particle is the basic building block in the universe. As he states (refer to the Diagram 25-P entitled "Magnetic Field and Electric Current," page 77), a MAGNETIC FIELD mechanically consists of "negative" and "positive" gyroscopic particles having opposite spins and simultaneously traveling in OPPOSITE directions --- while an ELECTRIC CURRENT mechanically consists of "negative" and "positive" gyroscopic particles having opposite spins and traveling in the SAME direction." You wrote: >Because a current flowing in a vaccum produces .... how can we attribute any >special advantage to using less current and more copper? A special advantage here is the ability to use less current (which is what costs a continual output of money via one's electric bill) and more copper to produce the magnetic fields which will provide the motive source/torque for the Newman Energy Machine at less cost than conventional EM technology designed to utilize HIGH current and short coils. > ---snip> >At this point, it is clear which theory fails to describe the reality of >the Two Coil Experiment. >Bob Shannon Mr. Shannon, Joseph Newman responds by stating that his two coil test proves that your statements are simply not true. I would recommend studying the Graphs on Pages 299, 300, 302 and the Chart on page 301 which Joseph Newman presents regarding this discussion. Should you wish to discuss this point in further detail, Joseph Newman may be reached at (601) 947-7147 [best times to reach him when he's generally not in the lab are: 9:30-10:30am/9-10pm Central Time, M-F]. Sincerely, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 josephnewman@earthlink.net http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 18:09:41 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA26627; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 18:08:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 18:08:04 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 21:07:18 -0500 Message-ID: <961217210625_841392403@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Resent-Message-ID: <"Cjc-A1.0.wV6.08rjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/825 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>It is fortunate for us and the progress of science that someone such as Galileo would have discounted your above words.>>> That was back when there was no view of science besides God created everything...we are MUCH more open-minded today. >>>Professor Cremonini was the "mainstream scientist" who refused --- after repeated pleadings by the young upstart (uncredentialed) Galileo --- to look through Galileo's telescope.>>> Noone is refuring to look at your ideas...I have looked at them, and seriously thought about them and I think they are a bunch of bull. >>>Galileo made the audacious claim that there were mountains on the moon. Heresy!!! This went totally counter to the established teachings of Aristotle which, according to the esteemed Professor Cremonini, specifically stated that "all heavenly bodies are perfect spheres and they can have no protuberences.">>> That was before the "scientific method" of observation, and then finding a theory to explain those observations...It was totally reversed back then. >>>I would define pseudoscience as consisting of those so-called "accredited" members of a "scientific establishment" who are blinded by their own intellectual dishonesty. Professor Cremonini was a true pseudoscientist.>>> You are the most blineded person here! You refuse to see obvious mistakes in your theory or even acknowledge that you MIGht be wrong! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 18:12:19 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA28106; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 18:11:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 18:11:06 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 21:10:13 -0500 Message-ID: <961217211010_1087284130@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Resent-Message-ID: <"LeYL6.0.vs6.uArjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/826 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: BTW, Please send me (or tell me where I can find) a DETAILED theory of Newman's ideas...all I have seen were vague ideas about what it is. If I could see a more detailed theory I may be able to "understand" it better. -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 18:38:34 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA01894; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 18:37:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 18:37:26 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 21:36:48 -0500 Message-ID: <961217213640_1787697015@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Resent-Message-ID: <"ID6W_2.0.VT.bZrjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/827 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>First issue: please feel free to correct me if my interpretation is incorrect, but it appears to me as though you are not willing to accept or even consider a new idea unless it has the 'stamp of approval' from someone with a "name, position and a way to contact this person.">>> Nope. Your idea is just so stupid how CAn I accept it?!?! It makes NO sense what so ever. That is my opinion. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 19:38:00 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA13018; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 19:33:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 19:33:08 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 22:20:45 -0600 To: w9sz@prairienet.org From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"TsDXz1.0.s83.TNsjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/828 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >> >>Would you agree that the energy in electromagnetic phenomena IS _mechanical >>energy_ -- consisting of "matter-in-motion" -- and that the "Lines of >>Force" are indeed PHYSICAL? >> > >Energy is a PHYSICAL phenomenon. Space, energy and matter are MADE >UP OF motion - "only this and nothing more" (Apologies to Edgar Allen Poe.) > >"Lines of force" are only geometric attempts at a representation of a >physical cause/effect relationship. They do not actually exist. > >See GEOMETRODYNAMICS by John Archibald Wheeler. > snip--- > >Zack Dear Zack, With all due respect to the poetry of Edgar Allen Poe and the writings of John Archibald Wheeler, I place my confidence with Michael Faraday and James Clerk Maxwell. It was Michael Faraday who said (and I quote), "How few understand the PHYSICAL lines of force." It was James Clerk Maxwell who said (and I quote), "In speaking of the Energy of the field, however, I wish to be understood literally. THE ENERGY IN ELECTROMAGNETIC PHENOMENA _IS_ MECHANICAL ENERGY." (emphasis added) Maxwell goes on to describe the nature of the electromagnetic field as consisting of "MATTER IN MOTION". My question would be: What is the _explicit_ mechanical nature of this "MATTER IN MOTION?" Joseph Newman maintains that the explicit mechanical nature of this "MATTER IN MOTION" is _Gyroscopic_. Understanding this was a "key" which enabled him to open the doors to many areas of investigation: "inertia, gravitation, light, heat, (electro)magnetism, planetary motion, and related astronomical observations. Re the words from the reference to Wheeler's Geometrodynamics, "...a physical cause/effect relationship..." my question would be, what is the fundamental mechanical nature of this _physical_ cause/effect relationship with respect to magnetism? Joseph Newman maintains that this Gyroscopic Particle is the fundamental mechanical essence of the (electro)magnetic fields of which we have spoken. At the beginning of Chapter 11 (Light) from the book, The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman, there is featured a quotation from John Archibald Wheeler which is one of my favorites: "Planck's discovery of the quantum in 1900 drove a crack in the armor that still covers the deep and secret principles of existence. In the exploitation of that opening we are at the beginning, not the end. Someday we'll understand the whole thing as one single marvelous vision that will seem so overwhelmingly simple and beautiful that we will say to each other -- Oh, how could be have been so stupid for so long? How could it have been otherwise!" --- John Archibald Wheeler And with respect to John Archibald Wheeler's quotation, I conclude with the statement by R J Burkholder: "It is becoming clear to me that most (if not all) of conventional EM theory can be explained in terms of gyroscopic particles. However, Newman's theories go beyond EM, even as far as unifying the five forces of nature (electric, magnetic, weak force, strong force, and gravity). This could be the Holy Grail of modern physics!" Sincerely, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 josephnewman@earthlink.net http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 19:39:09 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA13661; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 19:34:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 19:34:35 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 22:19:59 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Resent-Message-ID: <"JaDJb.0.gJ3.cOsjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/829 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For the sake of simplicity, I am combining 3 posts into 1: >>>>It is fortunate for us and the progress of science that someone such as >Galileo would have discounted your above words.>>> > >That was back when there was no view of science besides God created >everything...we are MUCH more open-minded today. Mr. Grossman, I would beg to disagree with you. This discussion (up to now) is a case in point. Moreover, it's ironic that Aristotle --- whom Professor Cremonini called upon as his expert on the subject of Astronomy --- would be considered a pagan by the clerics/professors of Cremonini's time. > >>>>Professor Cremonini was the >"mainstream scientist" who refused --- after repeated pleadings by the >young upstart (uncredentialed) Galileo --- to look through Galileo's >telescope.>>> > >Noone is refuring to look at your ideas...I have looked at them, and >seriously thought about them and I think they are a bunch of bull. Well, Mr. Grossman, thank you for your scientific assessment. >>>>Galileo made the audacious claim that there were mountains on the moon. >Heresy!!! This went totally counter to the established teachings of >Aristotle which, according to the esteemed Professor Cremonini, >specifically stated that "all heavenly bodies are perfect spheres and they >can have no protuberences.">>> > >That was before the "scientific method" of observation, and then finding a >theory to explain those observations...It was totally reversed back then. What's totally _reversed_ right now is the belief that truly efficient motors can operate on HIGH current and LOW voltage instead of on LOW current and HIGH voltage. > >>>>I would define pseudoscience as consisting of those so-called "accredited" >members of a "scientific establishment" who are blinded by their own >intellectual dishonesty. Professor Cremonini was a true pseudoscientist.>>> > >You are the most blineded person here! You refuse to see obvious mistakes in >your theory or even acknowledge that you MIGht be wrong! Well, Mr. Grossman, you are certainly entitled to your opinon. I would happen to disagree with it. >>First issue: please feel free to correct me if my interpretation is >>incorrect, but it appears to me as though you are not willing to accept or >>even consider a new idea unless it has the 'stamp of approval' from someone >>with a "name, position and a way to contact this person.">>> Mr. Grossman wrote: >Nope. Your idea is just so stupid how CAn I accept it?!?! It makes NO sense >what so ever. That is my opinion. I guess, Mr. Grossman, this is how our approaches differ. I would take the time to study a new concept before I would began calling it "bull" and "stupid." >BTW, Please send me (or tell me where I can find) a DETAILED theory of >Newman's ideas...all I have seen were vague ideas about what it is. If I >could see a more detailed theory I may be able to "understand" it better. >-Adam Grossman Mr. Grossman, this is a honest question which I can respect. I am assuming that you have read the SPECIAL REPORT which features general background information regarding the work of Joseph Newman. I can either send it to you if you have not read it, or it is available via our website. The website also describes Archives associated with the forum. The forum was created in June and is operated by Ralph Hartwell, Chief Electrical Engineer with the CBS-affiliate TV station in New Orleans. Ralph has worked with Joseph Newman over the years and assisted him in the construction of his largest 12,000+ lb Motor/Generator prototype. Ralph has an extensive understanding of conventional electrical engineering and how it relates to the innovations developed by Joseph Newman. Included in the extensive Forum Archives is a gif file which features the latest Wiring/Construction Diagram. In the earlier years of development the emphasis was placed principally on operating the technology as a "Generator" -- the latest prototypes operate primarily as a "Motor" -- with a redesigned commutator system which reflects this change. I should highly recommend reading the book --- The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman --- prior to constructing your own prototype. Because Joseph Newman developed his mechanical Theory of Gyroscopic Particles BEFORE ever constructing his first prototype --- which was based upon his new understanding of the explicit mechanical nature of electromagnetic fields -- it is certainly to one's benefit to better understand the Theory behind the practical application. In this way one would have a better understanding of the rationale behind the nature of the Motor/Generator's construction. The new, 7th Edition [ISBN 0-9613835-7-7] can be ordered directly by sending a $74.95 check or money order to Joseph Newman Publishing Company, Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452. (601) 947-7147 Or, others have reported the availability of earlier editions book through their local libraries, -- or, some have ordered the latest Edition through their libraries -- or, some have obtained earlier editions via the inter-library loan system. Also, if you wish to order a 67-minute VHS tape of back-to-back news broadcasts regarding Joseph Newman's work (includes: Dan Rather's CBS Evening News Report about the technology, CNN/ABC National News, 5-part Series on WWL-TV, WYES/PBS Affiliate Documentary on Joseph Newman, and finally the entire segment when Joseph Newman was featured on the Tonight Show). This tape may be ordered by sending a $10 check/money order payable to Evan Soule', P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, Louisiana 70157-7684. Or, if you wish to order a hard-copy of the new Wiring/Construction Diagram plus some additional materials that I include, send a self-addressed, 2-stamped envelope to my mailing address: Evan Soule', P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, Louisiana 70157-7684 USA. I hope you will find this material helpful. Best regards, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Website: http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 P.S. I also have additional documents available via email. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 20:11:32 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA26079; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 20:10:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 20:10:03 -0800 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 12:09:43 +0800 (SGT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19961218121402.2f8f1dda@po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8@po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Mpower Subject: Extracting FRNRG (Newman's theory) Resent-Message-ID: <"CDBy61.0.IN6.Owsjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/830 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: AdamGrosmn@aol.com posted the following (edited for brevity) at 21:10 1996.12.17 -0500: >BTW, Please send me (or tell me where I can find) a DETAILED theory of >Newman's ideas...all I have seen were vague ideas about what it is. If I >could see a more detailed theory I may be able to "understand" it better. >-Adam Grossman > I've got a technique I'd like to pass on to help with the mechanics of dealing with the Newman theories. Listen, folks, I neither believe nor disbelieve the theory. But you certainly do take up a lot of bandwidth that could be devoted to data, formula, and observation. The data I am currently observing is that the ratio of adverbs and adjectives to reproducibly observable effects is well over unity for the Newman discussion. If we could harness the emotional energy vented everytime Evan Soule posts one of those ' nobody listens, nobody understands, they are all so stupid and vain' letters we could truly say that the Newman machine is indeed a frnrg device of the highest order. A psychologist would have a field day working out ways to couple the T-B's and the skeptopaths whose combined efforts could be harnessed as a new and reliable energy source. Imagine - take a pole approximately 3 meters long. Handcuff Evan Soule at one end, your favorite skeptopath on the other end and couple the midpoint to crankshaft on a ac generator (You might consider a Newman machine modification...). After their daily meal , play a recorded announcement "Newman is a fraud." or "Newman machines _Work_". Pavlov would weep for joy.... I have seven folders in my e-mail directory for frnrg and vortex: data formula theory URL analysis quote source Everything else, and that includes everything you've said so far about who believes who said what about a theory that someone else from somewhere else couldn't bring themselves to talk about considering investigating goes on a ramdisk. I don't even need to bother with the key. Just trying to be helpful. ********************************************************** * http://home.pacific.net.sg/~mpowers8 ******** ********************************************************** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 20:55:51 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA05168; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 20:54:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 20:54:33 -0800 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 19 Dec 96 17:53 NZDT X-Sender: srae@shoppe.mlb.planet.gen.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz (Stuart Rae) Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 X-Mailer: Resent-Message-ID: <"F-fPM1.0.eG1.8atjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/831 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 17 Dec 1996 16:24:16 +0000 Bob Shannon wrote: >snip >As to the copper or the current being responsible for the magnetic >field, I must point out that a current can pass through a vacuum (as in >a vacuum tube) and produce the same magnetic field that would result >from that same current flowing through a copper conductor. > >How then can the mass of the coil be relavant? >snip This is a genuine question, so I'd be pleased if Bob or anyone can clarify it for me. Isn't an electrical "current" flowing in a vacuum (as in a vacuum tube, CRT, etc.) considered to be a movement of electrons, directed and accelerated by an electric field? In other words, isn't it the electric field that is responsible for the force, that creates the motion of the electrons in the vacuum device in the first place? Now, as I understand it, (please correct me if I'm wrong) an electron exhibits both electric and magnetic moments, and will precess when subjected to an electric field. I gather that this precession also aligns the electron's magnetic moment. And where there are a large number of electrons in motion, under the force of an electric field (as in a vacuum device), the combined precession of their magnetic moments generates a net magnetic field as is conventionally observed. Is this correct? If it is, then why would it be unreasonable to expect that the precession of electrons in a copper conductor (and the generation of a substantial magnetic field) might be better accomplished by limiting the electrical current and power, with the use of a larger "mass" of inductive conductor, and an electric field of higher intensity. Isn't this what we understand in conventional EM theory? So I'm not too sure here just what the contradiction might be - if any - between what Mr Newman has suggested, and the flow of an electric current in a vacuum device. If I'm incorrect, please explain? Sincerely, Stuart Rae ======================================================================= 7B Mountain View Road, Blenheim, New Zealand. Ph: +64 3 578 9160 Email: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz ======================================================================= From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 23:32:34 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA04014; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:31:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:31:56 -0800 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:27:43 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199612180727.SAA10850@oznet02.ozemail.com.au> X-Sender: bangers@ozemail.com.au (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: bangers@ozemail.com.au (Philip Doyle) Subject: VIRUS WARNING!!!!!!!!! X-Mailer: Resent-Message-ID: <"EzQ7H2.0.Z-.htvjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/832 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The other day I recieved this message and thought I should forward it to as many people as possible. >Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 18:20:03 +1100 (EST) >X-Sender: jwb@ozemail.com.au (Unverified) >To: jwb@ozemail.com.au >From: James Butcher >Subject: VIRUS WARNING >Cc: andrew@tracker.com.au, amyo@ozemail.com.au, bettybut@ozemail.com.au, > bglcorp@bglcorp.com.au, dba@lexicon.net.au, dfsydney@hutch.com.au, > millerje@ozemail.com.au, fec3@vic.cpaonline.com.au, > accounts@hsa.www.com.au, dutch@ozemail.com.au (Hugo Schouten), > iris@cyberspace.com, jjames@worley.com.au, bangers@ozemail.com.au, > jyescovi@slv.vic.gov.au, jgreenwa@vitcab2.telecom.com.au, > janet_a_snelson%PKF@tnpn.telstra.com.au, 100352.116@CompuServe.Com, > johnp.kijo@c031.aone.net.au, kknmelb@printnet.com.au, > linda.machin@isc.gov.au, omni1@ozemail.com.au, robmar@ozemail.com.au, > terryb@world.net > >>X-Sender: ca093444@mail01.mel.aone.net.au >>Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 11:19:59 +1000 >>To: jwb@ozemail.com.au >>From: webspinner@proserve.com.au (Internet Pro-serve) >>Subject: VIRUS WARNING >> >>URGENT URGENT URGENT >> >>Internet Bug Alert - A Very Nasty Virus Problem >> >>Nothing to do with Companies, trusts or other matters we normally report on >>- but this was received overnight and we want to help distribute as quickly >>as possible, if you have email access please pass this to your in-house >>administrator immediately. It is an unedited version sent to us by a friend >>in the USA: >> >>************************ >>This was forwarded to me from someone at the Pentagon. Sounds like this >>one could get you AND everyone on your system! >> >>If anyone receives mail entitled: PENPAL GREETINGS! please delete it WITHOUT >>reading it. Below is a little explanation of the message, and what it would >>do to your PC if you were to read the message. This is a warning for all >>internet users - there is a dangerous virus propagating across the internet >>through an e-mail message entitled >>"PENPALGREETINGS!". DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY MESSAGE ENTITLED "PENPAL >>GREETINGS!" >> >>This message appears to be a friendly letter asking you if you are >>interested in a penpal, but by the time you read this letter, it is too >>late. The "trojan horse" virus will have already infected the boot sector >>of your hard drive, destroying all of the data present. It is a >>self-replicating virus, and once the message is read, it will AUTOMATICALLY >>forward itself to anyone who's e-mail address is present in YOUR mailbox! >> >>This virus will DESTROY your hard drive, and holds the potential to DESTROY >>the hard drive of anyone whose mail is in your inbox, and who's mail is in >>their inbox, and so on. If this virus remains unchecked, it has the >>potential to do a great deal of DAMAGE to computer networks worldwide!!!! >> >>Please, delete the message entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!" as soon as you see >>it! And pass this message along to all of your friends and relatives, and >>the other readers of the newsgroups and mailing lists which you are on, so >>that they are not hurt by this dangerous virus!!!! *************************************************************** * *** All truth passes through three stages, *** * * First, it is ridiculed * * Second, it is violently opposed * * Third, it is accepted as being self-evident * * Schopenhauer * *************************************************************** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 17 23:53:46 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA06581 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:53:40 -0800 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:53:40 -0800 X-Envelope-From: ekwall2@diac.com Tue Dec 17 23:53:37 1996 Received: from november.diac.com (root@diac.com [207.17.190.2]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA06562 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:53:36 -0800 Received: from november (ekwall2@[207.17.190.73]) by november.diac.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA04960 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 07:53:16 GMT Old-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 00:53:15 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Create ball lightning w/ kitchen microwave oven In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19961217121950.12ef1670@pop.mymail.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, Michael C Slivinski wrote: > Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:27:38 -0600 (CST) > From: Michael C Slivinski > Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Re[2]: Create ball lightning w/ kitchen microwave oven > Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:22:19 -0800 > Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > At 12:14 PM 12/17/96 CDT, you wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> Anyone here done this yet ? > >> > >> > "...Although I am hoping for some other types of ball lightning to > >> emerge > such as strictly electrostatic-electromagnetic manifestations, > >> I have been > unlucky in finding laboratory provable evidence. > >> Cavity-formed plasmodes > can be made by putting a 2-inch burning candle > >> in a home kitchen microwave > oven. The plasmodes float around for as > >> long as the microwave energy is > >> > present." > >> > > >> >> > >> works beautifully. except a one inch candle in a crystal candle holder. > >> and on several attempts, it did appear to require that three inch > >> > >> > >> stephen > >> > > > >>>> I am curious if there is a microwave focal point that the crystal candle > >>>> holder elevated it to, where the other (tuber ware,ceramic ware) > >>>> positioned it out of the focal point cavity in of the microwave, > >>>> thanks Mike S. > > imagine there are certainly significant focal points in that cavity ... > > stephen > > Hello Stephen maybe your Daughters right, in the sense that maybe the crystal > lead glass is acting like a wave guide, or resonates at a different harmonic > especially if the Microwave is rich in Harmonics, and it transmutes the > frequency to the new resonant freq and power along with it. > What do you think about that??? > Thank Mike S. > The only 'Lead Crystal' (known to be true leaded) I had was a tear trop whiskey decanter with a BEAUTIFULLY rounded cut (round-ball shape).. Again with wifes skeptisim (humm) I used our 500 watt (too small?) during dinner time (only for about 2 minutes (not long enough??) set small 1" candle (stubby left over from thanksgiving - blue (too short??) on the about 3" solid leaded ball and ontop of stop (inverted on cermic saucer)) .. NO RESULTS.. except I noted 'Flame Dancing - Yes I have fan in the top, but noted it didn't FOLLOW the On-Off/Spinning fan blade'.. Question: My leaded glass was SOLID.. could candle holder be a 'barrel' or chimney of sorts?? ..will try a 3" candle, but wife says that will Smoke&Burn the plastic ceiling/top in the microwve (she's right :) [i'll wait till she goes to bed tonight to see if 3" away is a key unit.. Finally I had PLENTY of COSTLY LEADED GLASS with all types of reflective (pro-cut) ANGLES to reflect 'whatever'.. I Think IT MAY NOT BE THE HOLDER (Power?) (Center) And who the heck gets the credit for doing this in the first Place?? -= I mean sticking a burning candle in a Microwave is at least worth a little credit where due=- -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 00:11:35 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA09298; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 00:11:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 00:11:00 -0800 Message-Id: <32B82450.413B@ens.ascom.ch> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 09:05:20 -0800 From: Christian Korfmacher Reply-To: korfmach@ens.ascom.ch Organization: Ascom Business Systems AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VIRUS WARNING!!!!!!!!! References: <199612180727.SAA10850@oznet02.ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1BEQm3.0.AH2.ISwjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/833 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Philip Doyle wrote: > SNIP > >> > >>This was forwarded to me from someone at the Pentagon. Sounds like this > >>one could get you AND everyone on your system! > >> > >>If anyone receives mail entitled: PENPAL GREETINGS! please delete it WITHOUT > >>reading it. Below is a little explanation of the message, and what it would > >>do to your PC if you were to read the message. This is a warning for all > >>internet users - there is a dangerous virus propagating across the internet > >>through an e-mail message entitled > >>"PENPALGREETINGS!". DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY MESSAGE ENTITLED "PENPAL > >>GREETINGS!" > >> > >>This message appears to be a friendly letter asking you if you are > >>interested in a penpal, but by the time you read this letter, it is too > >>late. The "trojan horse" virus will have already infected the boot sector > >>of your hard drive, destroying all of the data present. It is a > >>self-replicating virus, and once the message is read, it will AUTOMATICALLY > >>forward itself to anyone who's e-mail address is present in YOUR mailbox! On which systems? Which mailtools? Must be specific, there's no multi-OS code available yet, so it would run on one specific type of OS and mailtool!! > >> > >>This virus will DESTROY your hard drive, and holds the potential to DESTROY > >>the hard drive of anyone whose mail is in your inbox, and who's mail is in > >>their inbox, and so on. If this virus remains unchecked, it has the > >>potential to do a great deal of DAMAGE to computer networks worldwide!!!! > >> > >>Please, delete the message entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!" as soon as you see > >>it! And pass this message along to all of your friends and relatives, and > >>the other readers of the newsgroups and mailing lists which you are on, so > >>that they are not hurt by this dangerous virus!!!! SNIP To me, this very message is the virus!!!!! It tends to be spread uncontrolled at an ever growing rate just because most people tend to panic at the sight of such a message. (remember the Neiman cookie story? Merry christmas to all!! -- Christian Korfmacher Ascom Business Systems Voice:+41 (0)32 6242716 Fax: +41 (0)32 6243156 Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are that good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats. - Howard Aiken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 02:56:09 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA27167; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 02:54:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 02:54:15 -0800 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Motor Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 12:33:30 GMT Message-ID: <32b7e2c8.6539260@mail.zip.com.au> References: <961217140141_2018670917@emout07.mail.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <961217140141_2018670917@emout07.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99g/16.339 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"N5ElS.0.Ke6.Mryjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/834 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 17 Dec 1996 14:01:42 -0500, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: _>You have in attached document : A JPEG picture of my Adams Motor's _>opto-detector (version of (Sept 96)) needed for a correct synchro. = phase. _>Sincerely, _>Jean-Louis Naudin _>JNaudin509@aol.com _>Notes : It's new picture more compressed for the server..... Hi, Jean-Louis. Thanks for the info you posted. I'm sure many of us will be awaiting the test results when you have time to post them. Did you observe over-unity operation in the course of your testing? Another member of the group (Rob King) was building an Adams motor also but we haven't heard anything=20 from him since the end of October. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Quantum Mechanics: The Dreams that Stuff is made of. - Michael Sinz =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 03:44:05 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA31660; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 03:42:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 03:42:50 -0800 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Yes! Here we go again ... Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:21:55 GMT Message-ID: <32b8eb71.8755978@mail.zip.com.au> References: <2.2.16.19961218121402.2f8f1dda@po.pacific.net.sg> In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19961218121402.2f8f1dda@po.pacific.net.sg> X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99g/16.339 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"mIYlS1.0.Wk7.uYzjo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/835 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 18 Dec 1996 12:09:43 +0800 (SGT), Mpower wrote: [snip] _>I've got a technique I'd like to pass on to help with the mechanics _>of dealing with the Newman theories. _>Listen, folks, I neither believe nor disbelieve the theory. _>But you certainly do take up a lot of bandwidth that could be devoted = to _>data, formula, and observation. You are certainly right there. Mr. Soule single-handedly managed to almost totally clog this group with his polemic=20 a few months ago. It looks like he's trying again. _>The data I am currently observing is that the ratio of adverbs and _>adjectives to reproducibly observable effects is well over unity for = the _>Newman discussion. Possibly well over centenary or even millenary _>If we could harness the emotional energy vented everytime Evan Soule = posts _>one of those ' nobody listens, nobody understands, they are all so = stupid _>and vain' letters we could truly say that the Newman machine is indeed = a _>frnrg device of the highest order. =20 _>A psychologist would have a field day working out ways to couple the = T-B's _>and the skeptopaths whose combined efforts could be harnessed as a new = and _>reliable energy source. Imagine - take a pole approximately 3 meters = long. _>Handcuff Evan Soule at one end, your favorite skeptopath on the other = end _>and couple the midpoint to crankshaft on a ac generator (You might = consider _>a Newman machine modification...). After their daily meal , play a = recorded _>announcement "Newman is a fraud." or "Newman machines _Work_". _>Pavlov would weep for joy.... You forgot the smilie to indicate unseriousness to the "humour-impaired" _>I have seven folders in my e-mail directory for frnrg and vortex: _> data formula theory URL = =20 _> analysis quote source _>Everything else, and that includes everything you've said so far about = who _>believes who said what about a theory that someone else from somewhere = else _>couldn't bring themselves to talk about considering investigating goes = on a _>ramdisk. I don't even need to bother with the key. _>Just trying to be helpful. Seriously, I don't believe or disbelieve in Newman's theory=20 at this point in time. Insufficient data. The jury is still out.=20 I do believe however that Evan Soule and his polemic is doing Joe Newman a grave disservice. After being=20 exposed to these endless arguments *A*G*A*I*N* there is a strong temptation to just tune the noise out - send all related posts straight to the ol' bit bucket without even reading them - ignore both the noise and the theory it is=20 touting.=20 That's where I got to during the last "siege". "True Believers" can tend to have that effect on one, I've noticed. Maybe, just maybe, Evan Soule's purpose is exactly that - to turn people off of even seriously considering the Newman theory. Be that as it may. I do have one question though. Do we *have* to put up with all the polemic for several weeks *this* time? Or can we persuade Evan Soule to belt up after just a couple of days. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Quantum Mechanics: The Dreams that Stuff is made of. - Michael Sinz =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 04:23:40 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA02068; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 04:22:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 04:22:25 -0800 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 06:24:00 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199612181224.GAA05237@fastlane.net> X-Sender: nikki@fastlane.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Bert Pool Subject: Re: Yes! Here we go again ... Resent-Message-ID: <"Fsky22.0.CW._7-jo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/836 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:21 PM 12/18/96 GMT, you wrote: [snip] > >You are certainly right there. Mr. Soule single-handedly >managed to almost totally clog this group with his polemic >a few months ago. > >It looks like he's trying again. > [snip] > >_>If we could harness the emotional energy vented everytime Evan Soule posts >_>one of those ' nobody listens, nobody understands, they are all so stupid >_>and vain' letters we could truly say that the Newman machine is indeed a >_>frnrg device of the highest order. [snip] > >I do believe however that Evan Soule and his polemic >is doing Joe Newman a grave disservice. After being >exposed to these endless arguments *A*G*A*I*N* there >is a strong temptation to just tune the noise out - send >all related posts straight to the ol' bit bucket without even >reading them - ignore both the noise and the theory it is >touting. > >That's where I got to during the last "siege". >"True Believers" can tend to have that effect on one, I've >noticed. I too started deleting Evan Soule's messages during the last "siege", and I have not stopped yet. It is unfortunate that Mr. Soule has so seriously turned off so many listeners, he might have some usable info buried in there somewhere. I for one am not willing to listen to anymore of his railing. Indeed, if this original post had reference to "12/14/96 posting" I would have deleted it too without opening it. Bert From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 04:33:16 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA03000; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 04:32:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 04:32:08 -0800 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 04:31:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199612181231.EAA12415@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) Subject: Re: Yes! Here we go again ... To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"FngBk2.0.nk.6H-jo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/837 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: 12/18/96 Newman has a web page. Perhaps this discussion could be moved there. RWW From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 04:38:09 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA03881; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 04:37:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 04:37:08 -0800 Message-Id: <199612181236.HAA25925@transfer.stratus.com> From: Charlie Hodgson Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 07:30:56 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.22 (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"4bEkA3.0.Sy.pL-jo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/838 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In , on 12/17/96 at 08:15 PM, josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) said: >I ask this question to anyone in general (not directed specifically at >you, Mr. Grossman): WHAT THE HELL ARE PEOPLE SO AFRAID OF??????? IMHO, the majority of people are quite comfortable living in thier own belief systems. Any discovery (or anything for that matter) that contradicts something that they hold fundamental can be quite threatening. Personally, I don't hold anything to be fundamental. Charlie -- I have seen the truth and it makes no sense. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 05:30:13 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA11451; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 05:29:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 05:29:21 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 08:28:31 -0500 Message-ID: <961218082831_1787749392@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Charge Blocking Device (Part1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.517.emout07.mail.aol.com.850915711" Resent-Message-ID: <"hQc293.0.ko2.i6_jo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/839 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.517.emout07.mail.aol.com.850915711 Content-ID: <0_517_850915711@emout07.mail.aol.com.37895> Content-type: text/plain Hi FreeNrg Men, Does anyone made a Charge Blocking Device experience (CBD) ??, Here in attachement I give my CBDV2 diagram ( MosFet version (V2.0), my Transistor version is (V1.0)). I am very interested in your comments and feed-back in this domain, and SHARING your tests results..... 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-0500 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: richarda@icx.net (Richard Austin) Subject: Newman Device Resent-Message-ID: <"WuCAp2.0.Gl4.Px_jo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/840 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Could we please put this Newman device thread to sleep? Either it works and is demonstrable, i.e. self running. Or it is not. Let's analyze theories after we see a working device which can power itself. Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 06:31:07 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA19977; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 06:29:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 06:29:35 -0800 From: warlord@LocalAccess.com Message-Id: <199612181429.GAA19953@mx1.eskimo.com> X-Sender: warlord@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Dissipating energy in NOT a problem Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 06:29:18 PSTP+0000 X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"Px0_6.0.1u4.D__jo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/841 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Re: LIAG, Ecklin, demystified and Magnetic shielding - for "dummies" The setup you are refering to doesn't use ANY external power supply (unless you consider permanent magnet as such). No, it doesn't take any energy to set up the magnetic field of the electromagnet if a permanent magnet is used to produce the field. No, you don't LOOSE the energy when the coil is opened because the energy can be dissipated in a load as a useful work after the switch is opened OR continuously dissipated in a load during the aprroach of the iron plate into the coil - magnet gap OR both. The energy is not lost (except for parasitic coil resistance), the energy is recollected or shuttled to a useful load for useful purposes. Read the details again and let's hear from you tommorow Extra energy is produced because the approach of the iron plate into the magnet-coil gap induces current in the coil for free. Furthermore this electric current sets up a magnetic field in the coil that oposes the change caused by the shielding effect of the iron plate. This magnetic field adds to the attraction of the iron plate into the gap, for free. After the energy in the coil is dissipated in any way (useful or useless) the coil is rendered inert (by open circuiting) and doesn't oppose the outgoing of the iron plate out of the coil-magnet gap. This further adds to the kinetic energy of the moving iron plate because it is attracted stronger during approach than during departure from the gap. At 08:40 AM 12/17/96 -0800, you wrote: > >In all this Liang-Edklin discussion you people are forgetting some >fundamentals of electromagnetic energy. > >It takes energy from an external power supply to set up the magnetic field >of the electromagnet, even if this is a superconductor with no resistance. >The external power source supplies additional energy to the electromagnet >when the iron plate is attracted closer to it. You seem not to be >accounting for this energy input in your reasoning. > >When you open the switch, you dissipate the energy remaining in the >electromagnet, as heat and light in the switch. (This may not be apparent >to the casual observer with small electromagnets, but opening a switch in >the circuit of a large electromagnet will splatter lots of molten switch >metal around.) > >So, you put electrical energy in and then lose it. This will not make any >additional energy. > >Michael J. Schaffer >General Atomics, PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA >Tel: 619-455-2841 Fax: 619-455-4156 > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 06:57:29 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA26058; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 06:56:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 06:56:44 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 09:57:43 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Reply to Richard Resent-Message-ID: <"ykiJ31.0.zM6.fO0ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/842 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Could we please put this Newman device thread to sleep? > >Either it works and is demonstrable, i.e. self running. Or it is not. Let's >analyze theories after we see a working device which can power itself. > >Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU >Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at >http://user.icx.net/~richarda Dear Richard, I've indicated that videotapes are available if you wish to view an operational model(s). Aside from constructing your own or visiting Joseph Newman's laboratory in Lucedale, Mississippi --- these are the options for viewing a working device. Sincerely, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 josephnewman@earthlink.net http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 07:18:28 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA30756; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 07:17:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 07:17:32 -0800 From: warlord@LocalAccess.com Message-Id: <199612181517.HAA30708@mx1.eskimo.com> X-Sender: warlord@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Could somebody criticise this, please Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 07:17:10 PSTP+0000 X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"H4B0y1.0.OW7.7i0ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/843 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Could somedy criticize this please. I can't find anything wrong with this. It can't be rigt >Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:48:02 -0800 >X-Sender: Epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com >Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:47:53 -0800 >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com >From: Epitaxy >Subject: Re: Magnetic Shielding - for "dummies" >X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) >Resent-Message-ID: <"jqM_Z3.0.YF4.VdWjo"@mx1> >Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/786 >X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > >< View the below drawing with monospaced font and this screen width > > > >MAGNETIC SHIELDING > > > >For example take two permanent magnets in S-S configuration and iron plate >like this. (the plate is restricted to move only in vertical direction) > > > LEGEND: NNNNSSSS a permanent magnet with North & South poles > IIIIIIII a soft iron plate > CCCCCCCC an electromagnetic coil > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >NNNNSSSS SSSSNNNN > > > I > I > I > I > I (iron plate attracted up) > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >The iron plate will be pulled into the gap between the magnets like this > > > I > I >NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN > I > I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >But if the gap between the magnets is LARGER the iron plate will stop here. > This configuration is not useful for our purposes. > > > >NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN > I > I > I > I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >If the magnets are oriented S-N the iron plate will also stop here because >iron plate is equally attracted to North or South poles: > > > I > I >NNNNSSSS I NNNNSSSS > I > I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) > > >********************************************************************* > > >If we now consider this sequence of events > >_____________________________________________________________________ > >Both magnets attract the iron plate into the gap > > >NNNNSSSS SSSSNNNN > > > I > I > I > I > I (iron plate moving up) > >Fig #1 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > I > I >NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN > I > I (iron plate moving up) > > > >Fig #2 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >One of the magnets is removed or annihilated. > > > I > I >NNNNSSSS I > I > I (iron plate moving up) > > > >Fig #3 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I > I > I > I > I (iron plate moving up) > >NNNNSSSS > >Fig #4 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >We will notice that the iron plate gains more energy getting pulled between >the magnets (Fig #1 & #2) then it looses during the back drag (Fig #3 & #4) >because one of the magnets has been removed. One might immediately say >here: "...wait a minute you just had to expend energy removing one of the >magnets..." and you would be correct in the above case. > >HOWEVER if we were using a coil instead of the magnet we could turn it off >(and the magnetic field it produces) without expending any energy > >So what exactly happens if we substitute one of the magnets with a coil ? > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >At the beginning (Fig #5) the coil sees the maximum intensity of the south >pole produced by the permanent magnet. > >As the iron plate is pulled into the gap between the permanent magnet and >the coil, the iron shield starts REDIRECTING more and more of the magnetic >field (splitting the field) produced by the permanent magnet AWAY from the >coil. The net result of this is that the coil starts seeing less and less >of the south pole (which is provided by the permanent magnet). > >According to the Lenz law if the circuit of the coil is closed, the coil >will try to resist this change in the strength of the aforementioned south >pole by circulating electric current through its windings in such a way >that the coil will PRODUCE its own south pole in order to keep the >intensity of the south pole near the coil exactly what it was before the >iron plate (shield) started moving into the gap. The coil acts as an >ultimate conservative :-) > >This electric current in the coil can be dissipated in a useful load during >the whole approach phase (or later when the coil is open circuited) > >The CRUCIAL effect is that this magnetic south pole created by the coil >will also attract the iron plate into the gap between the magnet and the >coil just like it was happening in Fig #1. A south pole is a south pole, >regardless whether it is produced by a magnet or a coil, right ?. > >So the moving iron plate will be attracted into the gap by BOTH the magnet >and the coil analogously to Fig #1 > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >NNNNSSSS CCCCCCCC Coil closed (producing South pole) > > > I > I > I > I > I (iron plate moving up) >#5 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > I > I >NNNNSSSS I CCCCCCCC Coil closed (producing South pole) > I > I (iron plate moving up) > > > > >#6 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > I > I >NNNNSSSS I CCCCCCCC Coil open ( inert ) > I > I (iron plate moving up) > > > > >#7 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I > I > I > I > I (iron plate moving up) > >NNNNSSSS CCCCCCCC Coil open (inert) >#8 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >In Fig #6 the iron plate will shield the coil from all of the intensity of >the south pole created by the permanent magnet and if the closed coil was >superconductive and didn't have any resistive losses it now WOULD be >producing a hypothetic south pole of exactly the same intensity as the >south pole produced by the permanent magnet in Fig #5. At the same time, >the permanent magnet in Fig #6 would also be shielded by the iron plate >from the hypothetical field produced by the coil and would produce the same >intensity of the south pole as it did before in Fig #5. For best shielding >results a double iron plate (with gap between plates) should be used. We >could say we "split" the original magnetic filed by the iron plate "axe". > >In Fig #7 & #8 we open the coil windings (and dissipate any leftover current >in it into a useful load), which makes the coil behave as if it WASN'T THERE. >This is analogous to annihilating the permanent magnet in Fig #3. Now the >iron plate can move away (under its inertia) from the permanent magnet with 2 >times less back drag than if the coil was left closed. This switching-off of >the coil allows the moving iron plate to escape from the gap with more energy >than it had before. One might say that the switching action introduces >nonconservativness into the system and introduces order into nature. >Order = negentropy = energy > >This cycle can repeat indefinitely (perpetually) if the iron shield is >moving cyclically in a large circular path through the magnet-coil gap just >like in the Ecklin, LIAG, Kromray, Bedini generators. > >The coil should have as little resistance as possible in order to have the >maximum magnetic flux induced in it. It should be switched with low >resistance relay or a MOSFET transistor with very low RdsON (ie. N-ch >MegaFET MOSFETs by Harris semiconductor). The gate of the MOSFET could be >energized by a high resistance, high voltage (not over 20V) coil coaxially >wound with the main coil. No exotic sensors are necessary here since one >can take advantage of the property that the electric current through the >coil moves one way when the iron plate is approaching the gap and OTHER way >when the plate moves away. Yes, a diode could be used but a diode need 0.6 >volts to operate and the low resistance coil (means thick wire, few turns) >will not produce anything close to 0.6V but it will produce many Amps (high >current). > >Strong magnets, small gap, laminated or powdered (to combat eddy currents) >cores and the moving plate would improve efficiency. > >When the coil is said to be closed it doesn't necessarily mean shorted. It >can be connected to a practical load to do useful work. The interesting >property of this system is that the more current you draw from the coil during >the approach phase the more energy you extract and the faster the iron plate >moves (escapes from the gap). The energy in the coil is dissipated either >during the whole approach phase of the iron plate into the gap or after the >coil is open circuited or both. Decaying the current in the coil after the >approach phase takes certain amount of time depending on the resistance of the >coil&load and the inductance. This coil decay time is very short because of the >low coil inductance and high load resistance. If you don't short the coil or >hook up a load to it during the iron plate approach phase the whole thing will >stop working and will behave conventionally. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 08:36:22 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA13759; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 08:34:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 08:34:27 -0800 Message-ID: <32B7D6B0.575B@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 11:34:08 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6Q5Je2.0.pM3.Gq1ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/844 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I had written: >snip >As to the copper or the current being responsible for the magnetic >field, I must point out that a current can pass through a vacuum (as in >a vacuum tube) and produce the same magnetic field that would result >from that same current flowing through a copper conductor. > >How then can the mass of the coil be relavant? >snip and Stuart Rae responded: >This is a genuine question, so I'd be pleased if Bob or anyone can clarify >it for me. >Isn't an electrical "current" flowing in a vacuum (as in a vacuum tube, CRT, >etc.) considered to be a movement of electrons, directed and accelerated by >an electric field? In other words, isn't it the electric field that is >responsible for the force, that creates the motion of the electrons in the >vacuum device in the first place? Not quite, we cannot seperate the electrons from their electric field, they are not seperate things in this case. >Now, as I understand it, (please correct me if I'm wrong) an electron >exhibits both electric and magnetic moments, and will precess when subjected >to an electric field. I gather that this precession also aligns the >electron's magnetic moment. And where there are a large number of electrons >in motion, under the force of an electric field (as in a vacuum device), the >combined precession of their magnetic moments generates a net magnetic field >as is conventionally observed. Electrons will precess due to external fields. >Is this correct? If it is, then why would it be unreasonable to expect that >the precession of electrons in a copper conductor (and the generation of a >substantial magnetic field) might be better accomplished by limiting the >electrical current and power, with the use of a larger "mass" of inductive >conductor, and an electric field of higher intensity. Isn't this what we >understand in conventional EM theory? It's perfectly reasonable to test for any such phenomena, as I have done. I have posted my results of the two coil test here months ago. >So I'm not too sure here just what the contradiction might be - if any - >between what Mr Newman has suggested, and the flow of an electric current in >a vacuum device. >If I'm incorrect, please explain? Mr. Newman has suggested that a special advantage is present in using more copper, and less current. In this case, resistance goes up, and current goes down. The idea is that less power is needed to develop the same magnetic field energy as in a "conventional", low resistance, high current coil. But as voltage rises, and current falls, total power may remain constant! Conventional theory currently states that both approaches are exactly equal, that is the magnetic field energy is directly proportional to the total energy input to the coils. When we conduct actual tests to see if there is any extra energy stored in the magnetic field of a more massive inductor, we must be very careful in measuring the total energy input. The larger coils higher inductance will take additional time to reach maximum intensity for a given (fixed) supply voltage. Batteries should not be used, as their ability to supply current is a function of the DC resistance of the load, which will be very different between large and small coils. Batteries introduce a wide range of phenomena that complicates collecting accurate data. A well regulated power supply is a must, and even then we must also integrate the current over time while the magnetic field is building to maximum intensity. This has been documented on this list server, and can be found in the archives as a matter of record. Classical theory tells us that inductance is the ability to store energy in the magnetic field. Real inductors of the same inductance may have masses that are differnt by an order of magnitude, yet each stores the same energy in their magnetic fields for the same input energy. I have tested for Mr. Newman's special advantage, but found that only classical behavior was shown. So far, the only response to this from Mr. Newman has been referances to his book. There is no evidence that Mr. Newnam has been intellectually honest and revistied his experiment to address these issues. Simply pointing to original data when faced with contradictory data is not an inellectually honest, nor scientific approach. (was'nt there a Newman list created for this very reason?) Where then is the special advantage Mr. Newman posits? Resistance rises, and current drops. We add additional turns, and produce a physically larger coil, so we develop a larger field per steady state current, but total power input per magnetic field energy remains proportional to the net input energy, just as in the classical, lower resistance, higher current coils. This is the conflict between Mr. Newman's theory and conventional theory as I see it. We need not get into gyroscopic particles at all, and we have problems with the theory correctly describing actual experimental results. I strongly reccomend that Dr. Frolov actualy test for this phenmena before he publishes on the subject. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 08:45:58 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA16404; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 08:44:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 08:44:18 -0800 X-Sender: wharton@128.183.251.148 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 11:44:03 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Larry Wharton Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Resent-Message-ID: <"GMhvg1.0.B04.Wz1ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/845 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I think the main problem with Joe Newman's gyroscopic particle theory is that there is no mathematical expression of it. It simply consists of a collection of narritive hand waving. The first step is to write down the precise mathematical form of the alleged new force. Then experiments may be done to test any predicted deviations. This is the approach of Peter and Neil Graneau in advocating Ampere's magnetic force law over Grassman's law (the normal magnetic force appearing in the Lorentz force). Quite a few competent scientists have looked at the Greaneau work whereas none have or should look at the Newman work. I repeat what is needed: an actual equation giving the alleged forces, a calculation of the predicted differences from the normal force and experimental results that confirm this predicted difference. Lawrence E. Wharton NASA/GSFC code 913 Greenbelt MD 20771 (301) 286-3486 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 08:56:22 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA18788; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 08:54:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 08:54:43 -0800 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 11:54:16 -0500 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: richarda@icx.net (Richard Austin) Subject: Re: Correa Homepage Resent-Message-ID: <"hbWby2.0.Hb4.C72ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/846 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This looks extremely interesting. Has anyone replicated their work? The endorsement by Apsden of their development of a 1kw O/U device is very encouraging. >Dr. Paulo and Alexandrea Correa have opened a homepage on their work at: > >http://www.globalserve.net/~lambdac > >The site contains some philoshphical comments, and introduction to the PAGD >phenomenon, a note from Dr. Harold Aspden, and an extensive discussion of the >Correa's discoveries in distinction to that of Reich and the allegations of >Marett. > >For those unacquainted with the Correa's work, it is a major contender for a >viable o/u energy source deriving its output from the ZPE. Study of the >referenced patents, and the work of Aspden is highly recommended. My two >articles in Infinite Energy will serve as an introduction. Where can these articles be found on the net? > >Mike Carrell Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 09:43:47 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA29485; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 09:42:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 09:42:05 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 12:42:25 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: To Wharton Resent-Message-ID: <"0z9uh3.0.hB7.Yp2ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/847 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > I think the main problem with Joe Newman's gyroscopic particle theory is >that there is no mathematical expression of it. It simply consists of a >collection of narritive hand waving. The first step is to write down the >precise mathematical form of the alleged new force. Then experiments may >be done to test any predicted deviations. This is the approach of Peter >and Neil Graneau in advocating Ampere's magnetic force law over Grassman's >law (the normal magnetic force appearing in the Lorentz force). Quite a >few competent scientists have looked at the Greaneau work whereas none have >or should look at the Newman work. > I repeat what is needed: an actual equation giving the alleged forces, a >calculation of the predicted differences from the normal force and >experimental results that confirm this predicted difference. > >Lawrence E. Wharton >NASA/GSFC code 913 >Greenbelt MD 20771 >(301) 286-3486 Mr. Wharton, fortunately for the progress of science in the past century, Michael Faraday and James Clerk Maxwell (as judged from their writings) would disagree with you. It has often been the case in the history of science where a mechanical model has preceded a mathematical model. This was certainly true for Michael Faraday and James Clerk Maxwell. Joseph Newman's explicit mechanical model certainly consists of more than "narritive(sic) hand waving" -- as you attempt to describe. And his operational prototypes are further proof of the validity of his mechanical model which he knew was correct before he constructed his first prototype. Do you have a SINGLE MECHANICAL EXPLANATION for the phenomena described in Joseph Newman's post of 12/14/96? He does. Michael Faraday specifically wrote to James Clerk Maxwell: "When a mathematician engaged in investigating physical actions and results has arrived at his own conclusions, may they not be expressed in common language as fully, clearly, and definitely as in mathematical formulae? If so, would it not be a great boon to such as well to express them so --- translating them out of their hieroglyphics that we might also work upon them by experiment?" James Clerk Maxwell considered Michael Faraday "a mathematician of a higher order." And Maxwell also states: "I have hardly made a single experiment, and that the limit of my design is to show how, by a strict application of the ideas and methods of Faraday, the connection of very different orders of phenomena which he has discovered may be clearly placed before the mathematical mind." Fortunately for us, Maxwell was both gifted mathematically AND mechanically. He was able to comprehend the importance of Faraday's mechanical model and translate it into mathematics. Prior to Maxwell's arrival, the absence of a mathematical expression for Faraday's mechanical model did not in any way detract from Faraday's important mechanical achievement for humanity. Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 josephnewman@earthlink.net http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 10:26:46 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA03238; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 10:11:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 10:11:11 -0800 Message-ID: <32B7ED5B.B5@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:10:51 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Is reality mechanical? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xFq0H3.0.Io.wE3ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/848 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mr. Soule has repeatedly asked: "Do you have a SINGLE MECHANICAL EXPLANATION for the phenomena described in Joseph Newman's post of 12/14/96? He does." Which brings to mind a question not directly related to Mr. Newman's theory or inventions. Is it reasonable to expect a fundemental description of reality to be mechanical nature? I think not, based on well documented quantum phenomena, and the observation that matter is only an expression of energy, and is not actually "solid" at all. Only by the very real, but non-physical wave interactions does matter appear "solid" at the macroscopic level, but the real phenomena behind this illusion is something quite different, something quite non-physical. Is it then reasonable to favor a mechanical model for the actual phenomena? Newtons laws of gravitation are mechanical in nature, but we know that they only serve us well in some conditions, but not all 'real' situations. Relativistic equations on the other hand, provide correct descriptions of real phenomena under all condtions, but are more complex than needed for low energy conditions. Newtons equations remain is use, although they are not 'correct' in many cases, and fail to describe reality accurately. So what can we say about the 'physicality' of reality? Like Newtons equations, this model works well, but only to a point, and cannot be taken as a 'true', or complete description of reality. It only holds true to a point, and then fails totally to describe observed reality. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 10:33:49 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA07863; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 10:33:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 10:33:02 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 21:21:55 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Re: Correa Homepage Lines: 18 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Y_jjZ2.0.mw1.RZ3ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/850 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I made some tests for 2 Watts power scheme that use electric discharge as free power source. Alexander Chernetsky made experiments from 1980-1990 up to 500 KW power. You can ask Dr. Harold Puthoff about Chernetsky work, since Dr. Puthoff visited Moscow's lab of Dr. Chernetsky. I can not find solution for arc process control. For big power it is a problem. Also this way (electric arc) look dangerous in biofield aspects since operator of the system can not control the parameters of the process. Something more complex than simple addtional power (3D energy) is coming into arc gap from 4D space when o/u mode is working. I can only recommend to be careful and to invite the expert of bioenergetics (supersensitivity person) who can make a test for you system. Then reason of danger is a nature of an arc (electric discharge). It is not controlled by cause-effect laws. To talk more, please, send direct email. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 10:34:26 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA07815; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 10:32:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 10:32:45 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 21:08:25 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: reply on Mr. Soule mail Lines: 21 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GdCZM.0.0w1.BZ3ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/849 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Reply on Mr. Soule mail: I have first edition of your book. Thank you for comments. But I have own development of the idea you decribed aslo: N.Tesla used pure potential field, NOT VOLTAGE but potential, and there is not any conductivity current. But there is an displacement current. Not only long metal wire but and dielectric can be used for such sort approach. In metals there is displacement currents also. It is demonstrated by Tesla's experiments, also modern experiments by Avraamenko and Zaev, Russia. Since I don't see any serious attention on industry to this topic, let's close it. Someone told here very true: it is necessary to make it working in self-running mode, without any power input circuit, and than to discuss the theory of the fact. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 11:57:43 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA27635; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 11:55:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 11:55:44 -0800 From: Keasy@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:55:02 -0500 Message-ID: <961218143311_403844467@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Create ball lightning w/ kitchen microwave oven Resent-Message-ID: <"i3ZJa.0.il6.-m4ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/851 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have tried several different candles in an oven with a rotating table and have seen nothing unusual. That was with the candles either on the rotating table or placed on top of glasses of different heights. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 13:09:18 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA09276 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:09:11 -0800 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:09:11 -0800 X-Envelope-From: ekwall2@diac.com Wed Dec 18 13:09:05 1996 Received: from november.diac.com (root@diac.com [207.17.190.2]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA09244 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:09:03 -0800 Received: from november (ekwall2@[207.17.190.73]) by november.diac.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA11321 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 21:08:41 GMT Old-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:08:40 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Yes! Here we go again ... In-Reply-To: <199612181231.EAA12415@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 18 Dec 1996, Richard Wayne Wall wrote: > > Newman has a web page. Perhaps this discussion could be moved there. > > RWW > Yesth! :) + From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 13:18:10 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA10957; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:15:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:15:12 -0800 X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:16:04 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: reply Resent-Message-ID: <"Tf2_F.0.2h2.Tx5ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/852 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Reply to Mr. Soule's private email: > >I have first edition of your book. > >Thank you for comments. But I have own development of the idea you decribed >aslo: N.Tesla used pure potential field, NOT VOLTAGE but potential, and there >is not any conductivity current. But there is an displacement current. Not >only long metal wire but and dielectric can be used for such sort approach. > >In metals there is displacement currents also. It is demonstrated by Tesla's >experiments, also modern experiments by Avraamenko and Zaev, Russia. > >Since I don't see any serious attention on industry to this topic, let's >close it. Someone told here very true: it is necessary to make it working >in self-running mode, without any power input circuit, and than to discuss >the theory of the fact. > >--- > Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia > Tel:7-812-2747877 Dear Dr. Frolov, Since you have selected to expand our private email discussion to include the forum, I will also respond to the full forum. What Joseph Newman has really done is take the work of Michael Faraday and integrate it with that of Albert Einstein. Newman's work is not truly based upon the work of Tesla, although he does respect Tesla's work. Your last paragraph above indicates to me that you have not understood an important aspect of Joseph Newman's book. I strongly urge you to re-read Section 21+ beginning at the top of page 58 where he addresses the question: "Why can't one simply feed the generated, output current back into itself, eliminating the need for an input battery?" I invite you to consider the possibility that the very reason some people are desirous of a "self-running mode" machine is the very reason why they have been continually unsuccessful. One needs to have an EXTERNAL _CATALYTIC_ VOLTAGE pressure on the system to effect the desired output. Joseph Newman HAS produced MANY models of his technology which demonstrate GREATER EXTERNAL ENERGY OUTPUT THAN EXTERNAL ENERGY INPUT. HE HAS _DONE_ IT!! AND 30 SCIENTISTS HAVE VERIFIED THIS FACT!! It is somewhat analogous to people who were invited to come see the Wright Brothers fly in their heavier-than-air-machine and such people REFUSED to see it because they KNEW (had a biased belief) that it was IMPOSSIBLE for man to fly in a heavier-than-air-machine. I simply am continually _astounded_ --- TOTALLY _ASTOUNDED_ --- at the negative attitudes/biases of some people! The bias here is that: it is "impossible to have a device which produces greater external energy output than external energy input unless it can operate in a 'self-running' mode." This is a completely unrealistic bias with respect to this technology. Asking for a "self-running" mode in this instance is a bit like asking the builders of nuclear power plant to initiate the utilization of the nuclear fuel rods without an external source. But in the case of Joseph Newman's operational Motor/Generator, his technology utilizes the VOLTAGE ---- NOT the current! You must have an external VOLTAGE source to operate the system. But it is the current that costs money NOT _voltage_! And once the system is activated, GREATER EXTERNAL ENERGY COMES FROM THE SYSTEM THAN WAS ORIGINALLY EXTERNALLY INPUTED INTO THE SYSTEM. This technology will revolutionize our access to energy. Evan Soule' Director of Information (504) 524-3063 NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 13:21:42 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA12239; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:20:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:20:02 -0800 X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:15:54 -0600 To: bshannon@tiac.net From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Is reality mechanical? Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"b5xQ43.0.6_2.006ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/853 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Mr. Soule has repeatedly asked: > >"Do you have a SINGLE MECHANICAL EXPLANATION for the phenomena described in >Joseph Newman's post of 12/14/96? He does." > >Which brings to mind a question not directly related to Mr. Newman's >theory or inventions. > >Is it reasonable to expect a fundemental description of reality to be >mechanical nature? > >I think not, based on well documented quantum phenomena, and the observation >that matter is only an expression of energy, and is not actually "solid" at >all. > >Only by the very real, but non-physical wave interactions does matter >appear,"solid" at the macroscopic level, but the real phenomena behind this >illusion is something quite different, something quite non-physical. > >Is it then reasonable to favor a mechanical model for the actual >phenomena? > >Newtons laws of gravitation are mechanical in nature, but we know that >they only serve us well in some conditions, but not all 'real' situations. > >Relativistic equations on the other hand, provide correct descriptions >of real phenomena under all condtions, but are more complex than needed for low >energy conditions. Newtons equations remain is use, although they are not >'correct' in many cases, and fail to describe reality accurately. > >So what can we say about the 'physicality' of reality? > >Like Newtons equations, this model works well, but only to a point, and cannot >be taken as a 'true', or complete description of reality. It only holds >true to a point, and then fails totally to describe observed reality. Once again, the response misses the point. I would be interested to know what the "real phenomena" which is supposedly "quite non-physical" is. I find it interesting that the writer has positively determined that it is _quite_ non-physical. Setting the "quite non-physical" aside for the moment, Joseph Newman _has_ developed a SINGLE MECHANICAL EXPLANATION for the phenomena described in his post of 12/14/96. The results of his observations are quite physical. I would also bear in mind James Clerk Maxwell's _literal_ statement: "In speaking of the Energy of the field, however, I wish to be understood literally. THE ENERGY IN ELECTROMAGNETIC PHENOMENA _IS_ MECHANICAL ENERGY." I endeavor not to prejudice my thinking in terms of "mass" or "energy" per se. Since the gyroscopic particle is literally the mechanical essence of Einstein's equation of E=mc^2, the gyroscopic particle 'straddles the fence' so-to-speak between one's biased macroscopic attempts to assign one's own subjective interpretations to 'reality', i.e., "mass" or "energy." Hence, I choose for semantic purposes to refer to the gyroscopic particle as having "masergy". One interpretation provided is that a given gyroscopic masergy is a quantum of "energy" whose motions create the condition of "mass" which one macroscopically assigns to it. But such selective subjective interpretations of the nature of the universe are still beside the point that: Joseph Newman has employed his understanding of the nature of the gyroscopic 'masergy' to mechanically explain a variety of phenomena: (electro)magnetism, heat, light, inertia, gravity, planetary motion, etc. Evan Soule' josephnewman@earthlink.net http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 13:41:09 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA12537; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:21:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:21:49 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961218132150.0090dd6c@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: Epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:21:52 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Could somebody criticize this please Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"AfcHw2.0.X33.g16ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/854 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In my post the Fig #5 simply depicts a closed circuited coil WITHOUT any power source hooked up to it. This coil can also be hooked up to a load instead of being short circuited for the same effect. "Load" is the opposite to the "power source" and the "Load" dissipates the energy produced by the coil. In that case it can be said that the coil is shorted THROUGH the load. There was a typo in the LEGEND before: was - "an electromagnetic..." should have been "an electromagnetic coil..." Could you please reply with the references to the exact places that imply "Yes" and "No" at the same time. I would like to correct the text so others do not have to wonder whether I meant "Yes" or "No" I respect your skepticism. Please try to find something specific wrong with my post, I'll appreciate any errors you might find. I am including my post at the bottom for your convenience. At 09:33 AM 12/18/96 -0800, you wrote: >After reading the 'LIAG, Ecklin...' posts, I now confess I don't understand >what they are talking about. > > When you get to Fig. 5: Is the electromagnetic connected to any >external power source? Some sentences imply, 'Yes,' others imply, 'No." >Which is it? It MAKES A DIFFERENCE! If there is a supply, tell clearly >what it is doing and when. > >As with all these attempts to exploit magnetism, I remain highly skeptical. >Is there a working model with no hidden compartments? > >Michael J. Schaffer >General Atomics, PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA >Tel: 619-455-2841 Fax: 619-455-4156 > > >Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:48:02 -0800 >X-Sender: Epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com >Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:47:53 -0800 >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com >From: Epitaxy >Subject: Re: Magnetic Shielding - for "dummies" >X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) >Resent-Message-ID: <"jqM_Z3.0.YF4.VdWjo"@mx1> >Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/786 >X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > >< View the below drawing with monospaced font and this screen width > > > >MAGNETIC SHIELDING > > > >For example take two permanent magnets in S-S configuration and iron plate >like this. (the plate is restricted to move only in vertical direction) > > > LEGEND: NNNNSSSS a permanent magnet with North & South poles > IIIIIIII a soft iron plate > CCCCCCCC an electromagnetic coil > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >NNNNSSSS SSSSNNNN > > > I > I > I > I > I (iron plate attracted up) > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >The iron plate will be pulled into the gap between the magnets like this > > > I > I >NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN > I > I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >But if the gap between the magnets is LARGER the iron plate will stop here. > This configuration is not useful for our purposes. > > > >NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN > I > I > I > I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >If the magnets are oriented S-N the iron plate will also stop here because >iron plate is equally attracted to North or South poles: > > > I > I >NNNNSSSS I NNNNSSSS > I > I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) > > >********************************************************************* > > >If we now consider this sequence of events > >_____________________________________________________________________ > >Both magnets attract the iron plate into the gap > > >NNNNSSSS SSSSNNNN > > > I > I > I > I > I (iron plate moving up) > >Fig #1 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > I > I >NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN > I > I (iron plate moving up) > > > >Fig #2 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >One of the magnets is removed or annihilated. > > > I > I >NNNNSSSS I > I > I (iron plate moving up) > > > >Fig #3 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I > I > I > I > I (iron plate moving up) > >NNNNSSSS > >Fig #4 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >We will notice that the iron plate gains more energy getting pulled between >the magnets (Fig #1 & #2) then it looses during the back drag (Fig #3 & #4) >because one of the magnets has been removed. One might immediately say >here: "...wait a minute you just had to expend energy removing one of the >magnets..." and you would be correct in the above case. > >HOWEVER if we were using a coil instead of the magnet we could turn it off >(and the magnetic field it produces) without expending any energy > >So what exactly happens if we substitute one of the magnets with a coil ? > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >At the beginning (Fig #5) the coil sees the maximum intensity of the south >pole produced by the permanent magnet. > >As the iron plate is pulled into the gap between the permanent magnet and >the coil, the iron shield starts REDIRECTING more and more of the magnetic >field (splitting the field) produced by the permanent magnet AWAY from the >coil. The net result of this is that the coil starts seeing less and less >of the south pole (which is provided by the permanent magnet). > >According to the Lenz law if the circuit of the coil is closed, the coil >will try to resist this change in the strength of the aforementioned south >pole by circulating electric current through its windings in such a way >that the coil will PRODUCE its own south pole in order to keep the >intensity of the south pole near the coil exactly what it was before the >iron plate (shield) started moving into the gap. The coil acts as an >ultimate conservative :-) > >This electric current in the coil can be dissipated in a useful load during >the whole approach phase (or later when the coil is open circuited) > >The CRUCIAL effect is that this magnetic south pole created by the coil >will also attract the iron plate into the gap between the magnet and the >coil just like it was happening in Fig #1. A south pole is a south pole, >regardless whether it is produced by a magnet or a coil, right ?. > >So the moving iron plate will be attracted into the gap by BOTH the magnet >and the coil analogously to Fig #1 > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >NNNNSSSS CCCCCCCC Coil closed (producing South pole) > > > I > I > I > I > I (iron plate moving up) >#5 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > I > I >NNNNSSSS I CCCCCCCC Coil closed (producing South pole) > I > I (iron plate moving up) > > > > >#6 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > I > I >NNNNSSSS I CCCCCCCC Coil open ( inert ) > I > I (iron plate moving up) > > > > >#7 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I > I > I > I > I (iron plate moving up) > >NNNNSSSS CCCCCCCC Coil open (inert) >#8 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >In Fig #6 the iron plate will shield the coil from all of the intensity of >the south pole created by the permanent magnet and if the closed coil was >superconductive and didn't have any resistive losses it now WOULD be >producing a hypothetic south pole of exactly the same intensity as the >south pole produced by the permanent magnet in Fig #5. At the same time, >the permanent magnet in Fig #6 would also be shielded by the iron plate >from the hypothetical field produced by the coil and would produce the same >intensity of the south pole as it did before in Fig #5. For best shielding >results a double iron plate (with gap between plates) should be used. We >could say we "split" the original magnetic filed by the iron plate "axe". > >In Fig #7 & #8 we open the coil windings (and dissipate any leftover current >in it into a useful load), which makes the coil behave as if it WASN'T THERE. >This is analogous to annihilating the permanent magnet in Fig #3. Now the >iron plate can move away (under its inertia) from the permanent magnet with 2 >times less back drag than if the coil was left closed. This switching-off of >the coil allows the moving iron plate to escape from the gap with more energy >than it had before. One might say that the switching action introduces >nonconservativness into the system and introduces order into nature. >Order = negentropy = energy > >This cycle can repeat indefinitely (perpetually) if the iron shield is >moving cyclically in a large circular path through the magnet-coil gap just >like in the Ecklin, LIAG, Kromray, Bedini generators. > >The coil should have as little resistance as possible in order to have the >maximum magnetic flux induced in it. It should be switched with low >resistance relay or a MOSFET transistor with very low RdsON (ie. N-ch >MegaFET MOSFETs by Harris semiconductor). The gate of the MOSFET could be >energized by a high resistance, high voltage (not over 20V) coil coaxially >wound with the main coil. No exotic sensors are necessary here since one >can take advantage of the property that the electric current through the >coil moves one way when the iron plate is approaching the gap and OTHER way >when the plate moves away. Yes, a diode could be used but a diode need 0.6 >volts to operate and the low resistance coil (means thick wire, few turns) >will not produce anything close to 0.6V but it will produce many Amps (high >current). > >Strong magnets, small gap, laminated or powdered (to combat eddy currents) >cores and the moving plate would improve efficiency. > >When the coil is said to be closed it doesn't necessarily mean shorted. It >can be connected to a practical load to do useful work. The interesting >property of this system is that the more current you draw from the coil during >the approach phase the more energy you extract and the faster the iron plate >moves (escapes from the gap). The energy in the coil is dissipated either >during the whole approach phase of the iron plate into the gap or after the >coil is open circuited or both. Decaying the current in the coil after the >approach phase takes certain amount of time depending on the resistance of the >coil&load and the inductance. This coil decay time is very short because of the >low coil inductance and high load resistance. If you don't short the coil or >hook up a load to it during the iron plate approach phase the whole thing will >stop working and will behave conventionally. > > Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:44:06 -0800 From: warlord@LocalAccess.com X-Sender: warlord@mail.localaccess.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: LIAG, Ecklin free energy, demystified Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 23:43:59 PSTP+0000 X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"Rryq62.0.aG1.53wjo"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2781 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com The setup you are refering to doesn't use ANY external power supply (unless you consider permanent magnet as such) No, it doesn't take any energy to set up the magnetic field of the electromagnet if a permanent magnet is used to produce the field. No, you don't LOOSE the energy when the coil is opened because the energy can be dissipated in a load as a useful work after the switch is opened OR continuously dissipated in a load during the aprroach of the iron plate into the coil - magnet gap OR both. The energy is not lost (except for parasitic coil resistance), the energy is recollected or shuttled to a useful load for useful purposes. Read the details again and let's hear from you tommorow Extra energy is produced because the approach of the iron plate into the magnet-coil gap induces current in the coil for free. Furthermore this electric current sets up a magnetic field in the coil that oposes the change caused by the shielding effect of the iron plate. This magnetic field adds to the attraction of the iron plate into the gap, for free. After the energy in the coil is dissipated in any way (useful or useless) the coil is rendered inert (by open circuiting) and doesn't oppose the outgoing of the iron plate out of the coil-magnet gap. This further adds to the kinetic energy of the moving iron plate because it is attracted stronger during approach than during departure from the gap. At 08:40 AM 12/17/96 -0800, Michael Shaffer wrote: > >In all this Liang-Edklin discussion you people are forgetting some >fundamentals of electromagnetic energy. > >It takes energy from an external power supply to set up the magnetic field >of the electromagnet, even if this is a superconductor with no resistance. >The external power source supplies additional energy to the electromagnet >when the iron plate is attracted closer to it. You seem not to be >accounting for this energy input in your reasoning. > >When you open the switch, you dissipate the energy remaining in the >electromagnet, as heat and light in the switch. (This may not be apparent >to the casual observer with small electromagnets, but opening a switch in >the circuit of a large electromagnet will splatter lots of molten switch >metal around.) > >So, you put electrical energy in and then lose it. This will not make any >additional energy. > >Michael J. Schaffer >General Atomics, PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA >Tel: 619-455-2841 Fax: 619-455-4156 > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 13:42:40 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA16716; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:41:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:41:02 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:40:20 -0500 Message-ID: <961218144459_810423281@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VIRUS WARNING!!!!!!!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"Gqe3b1.0.454.hJ6ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/855 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is exactly like the "Good Times" virus, which was a hoax. The virus code has to be run for it to do anything (just like a normal program. After all, a virus is just a program!)! Reading e-mail just READS the message, it doesn't run ANY code. So don't be fooled, it's just a big hoax. -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 13:49:18 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA18010; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:47:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:47:32 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:46:45 -0500 Message-ID: <961218144935_1087378041@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Yes! Here we go again ... Resent-Message-ID: <"Q-oVz2.0.JP4.oP6ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/856 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: OK OK, I'll stop fighting....Evan Soule will never convince me, and I will never convince him, so I wont argue with him any more. :) -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 14:21:36 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA24684; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:20:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:20:36 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 17:19:48 -0500 Message-ID: <961218143928_1355688547@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Extracting FRNRG (Newman's theory) Resent-Message-ID: <"pOdZk.0.b16.ou6ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/857 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>I've got a technique I'd like to pass on to help with the mechanics of dealing with the Newman theories. Listen, folks, I neither believe nor disbelieve the theory. But you certainly do take up a lot of bandwidth that could be devoted to data, formula, and observation.>>>> I'm not saying Newman's device doesn't work, I just disagree on WHY it works. :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 14:37:21 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA27916; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:35:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:35:39 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:35:41 -0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re[4]: Create ball lightning w/ kitchen microwave oven Resent-Message-ID: <"lIQLL.0.tp6.s67ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/858 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > > well, mike, > > i'd think oh, bother, he and kimmie may have a point. so, why not? a > quick check over lunch, the wife almost distracted. now with that > ordinary drinking glass for a platform in that 750 watt cavity. now, > with that candle positioned within, oh, about a tenth of a centimeter > now to where it was using that candle holder of hers. > > and with that, oh yea, nice effect. nice plasma ball. nice enough that > the wife is getting a bit skeptical as to the continued value of this > personal revelation, know what i mean? :) i'm not think'n we need to > verify this again with her tupperware ... > > stephen > Could you provide some specifics like measurements of the microwave internal dimensions, location of candle, size of glass, size of candle, brand of microwave, etc. Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 15:06:55 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA03055; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:04:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:04:57 -0800 From: RMCarrell@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:04:17 -0500 Message-ID: <961218163312_609935475@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Plasma balls in microwaves Resent-Message-ID: <"Cll5i3.0.dl.MY7ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/859 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All the discussion about plasma balls in microwaves is very entertaining, but I trust that one and all realize that this is not "ball lightning". Nor are the freestanding arcs that can be produced by highpowered microwave equipment such as radars. These manifestations depend on high intensity standing waves generated by an rf generator and are tied to the space around them. Ball lightning is a self-sustaining plasmoid which once formed is free to wander some distance from the triggering event or device. Mike Carrell From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 15:13:46 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA04278; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:10:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:10:26 -0800 Message-ID: <32B87A7C.6098@plix.com> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:13:00 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) Reply-To: redorman@plix.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: reply References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eM4Nn3.0.k21.Vd7ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/860 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Evan Soule wrote: > > snip > I invite you to consider the possibility that the very reason some people > are desirous of a "self-running mode" machine is the very reason why they > have been continually unsuccessful. > > One needs to have an EXTERNAL _CATALYTIC_ VOLTAGE pressure on the system to > effect the desired output. Joseph Newman HAS produced MANY models of his > technology which demonstrate GREATER EXTERNAL ENERGY OUTPUT THAN EXTERNAL > ENERGY INPUT. HE HAS _DONE_ IT!! AND 30 SCIENTISTS HAVE VERIFIED THIS > FACT!! > > It is somewhat analogous to people who were invited to come see the Wright > Brothers fly in their heavier-than-air-machine and such people REFUSED to > see it because they KNEW (had a biased belief) that it was IMPOSSIBLE for > man to fly in a heavier-than-air-machine. I simply am continually > _astounded_ --- TOTALLY _ASTOUNDED_ --- at the negative attitudes/biases > of some people! > > The bias here is that: it is "impossible to have a device which produces > greater external energy output than external energy input unless it can > operate in a 'self-running' mode." This is a completely unrealistic bias > with respect to this technology. > > Asking for a "self-running" mode in this instance is a bit like asking the > builders of nuclear power plant to initiate the utilization of the nuclear > fuel rods without an external source. But in the case of Joseph Newman's > operational Motor/Generator, his technology utilizes the VOLTAGE ---- NOT > the current! > > You must have an external VOLTAGE source to operate the system. But it is > the current that costs money NOT _voltage_! And once the system is > activated, GREATER EXTERNAL ENERGY COMES FROM THE SYSTEM THAN WAS > ORIGINALLY EXTERNALLY INPUTED INTO THE SYSTEM. > > This technology will revolutionize our access to energy. > > Evan Soule' > Forgive my two-cents-worth, but couldn't a capacitor be used to provide the catlytic voltage potential? Pre-charge it if you must--once the thing is running, output could be fed back to keep the capacitor charged, couldn't it? If for some theoretical reason you need total electrical isolation of the catlytic potential from the power output, then power a light bulb from the output and have it shine on a photoelectric cell/battery, and use THAT for your catlytic voltage. Then no one can say you are sneeking power into the otherwise closed system. --Bob From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 15:17:25 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA05676; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:15:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:15:58 -0800 Message-ID: <32B87BC2.78EC@plix.com> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:18:26 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) Reply-To: redorman@plix.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Charge Blocking Device (Part1) References: <961218082831_1787749392@emout07.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4JfI4.0.aO1.gi7ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/861 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > Hi FreeNrg Men, > > Does anyone made a Charge Blocking Device experience (CBD) ??, Here in > attachement I give my CBDV2 diagram ( MosFet version (V2.0), my Transistor > version is (V1.0)). > > I am very interested in your comments and feed-back in this domain, and > SHARING your tests results..... > > Sincerely, > Jean-Louis Naudin > Email : JNaudin509@aol.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > [Image] So what's it supposed to do beside warm up R3? --Bob From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 15:46:49 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA10983; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:45:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:45:29 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:44:49 -0500 Message-ID: <961218171524_1087404047@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Dissipating energy in NOT a problem Resent-Message-ID: <"mEeU41.0.Sh2.N88ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/862 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>Extra energy is produced because the approach of the iron plate into the magnet-coil gap induces current in the coil for free. Furthermore this electric current sets up a magnetic field in the coil that oposes the change caused by the shielding effect of the iron plate. This magnetic field adds to the attraction of the iron plate into the gap, for free.>>> If energy is produced using permanent magnets, then you are using the magnatism FROM the magnet to do something, right? Well, if that is the case, the permanent magnet must slowly run out of magnetism (it is only called a permanent magnet because it doesn't need electric current to be magnetic.) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 15:57:11 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA13816; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:55:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:55:58 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:55:14 -0500 Message-ID: <961218170909_1820525051@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Statement of 12/14/96 Resent-Message-ID: <"EA_ZT.0.jN3.BI8ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/863 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>Personally, I don't hold anything to be fundamental.>>> Same with me...but what if I told you the Earth was really a big ball of cheese and that stars are just people holding flashlights in the sky? Of course you wouldn't believe me! It's too stupid to believe! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 16:15:57 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA17560; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:14:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:14:27 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 19:15:29 -0600 To: redorman@plix.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: reply Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"wXg3P3.0.DI4.YZ8ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/864 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: snip------ >> >Forgive my two-cents-worth, but couldn't a capacitor be used to provide >the catlytic voltage potential? Pre-charge it if you must--once the >thing is running, output could be fed back to keep the capacitor >charged, couldn't it? If for some theoretical reason you need total >electrical isolation of the catlytic potential from the power output, >then power a light bulb from the output and have it shine on a >photoelectric cell/battery, and use THAT for your catlytic voltage. >Then no one can say you are sneeking power into the otherwise closed >system. >--Bob So as not to belabor a discussion which has been addressed previously, I would invite you to visit your local library, obtain a copy of The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman and study the full context of this subject as described in Section 21+ beginning at the top of page 58 where he specifically analyzes the question in detail: "Why can't one simply feed the generated, output current back into itself, eliminating the need for an input battery?" From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 16:16:00 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA17612; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:14:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:14:47 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1361164365==_============" Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 19:15:31 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Gif resend Resent-Message-ID: <"cUrvC2.0.4J4.pZ8ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/865 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --============_-1361164365==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Attached is Gif pg.66 full view. --============_-1361164365==_============ Content-Type: image/gif; name="Page_66,_Full.gif" ; x-mac-type="47494666" ; x-mac-creator="53744D6C" Content-Disposition: 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rK9grQrVGLPJusdE8XFZBj0TQ5jCL9uvfq2GY+VaGLcdbtkuN2xY8hYypOBc72CDfK7Z 8nI11QWviu3I4MzGlcO1q62QM1rjF76pqqh9yo0Nm6nDprm5qwytmUGr4u5l2ay9lKvb NrzW9SCNyYrR8vYGHN4vN1PAci7yVZHLYoAVcE1Y7v+ve2H8VhYLeboh29RQubmoI1MF nyfFT2z6lpbL4oWiME3ncjINoOIQlURXLKYT8XWZVAsNUQDGZqlZFbliJbVqzaLW5eTL 288GEVLwbWPwTjPN9cjYX1xa689Y2lDgQVq1583atEUN2cEGONNe/PBDlxdr/MpUp312 cpez/WLR2ldXZzy0L81UbC6OV8rupne0/mw6aBdz2wn+Ib/jWucQW67d1E4ssb19S8Zo umLVG3e0gTYi29mKrsKeeMXJiuVyEVDZr4XZawRdRIQ7nHt51S7JPT5rEm0lmbf+Ui1Z jsBZ9vPhGHJnX7Z60ZYDdXfx3rlDde5zsvU86AYFOtH/vTbzo5Oa3Eo/eNKbrlCjQ12G Ip+6QKVu9X3zOevyxDrXu/30r+vT62IP+avLDlCmo72CZ1/7O8nudnqGPe7rhDvdJzn3 u3fT7rLqWE4MKBxZK9yxK4359IznJPWiUfCMb7zjHw951QQz8pSvvOUvj/nMa37znG/4 gTsP+tCLfvSkL73plYfuWZ1+9aimud5fD/vYy372tK+97W//R9fjfvdQxyrvfy4hp+Q7 rBhUeQxv03TU/X7sz5Yub5NtTUQ787LTRuu1iX605aNTy9gezL8lbJsJPxP7A9Y+p+1s ug6rG85bZmV22S1xaar9jbQ0/97HjOBrrtDa9t4y96Vp3HXzZ39EwmyEVmhVRms/c0Yb 93EZtDQCOIAROEdIIoEV+GkWiIEZqIEb+FVjQT3gY2GJxoEj+HneVXD4Rmb3NRQRBk0S 1n3RVWQkKIPHpHH8NWG3hWHOBzty5h0Xpmg/kn6tJSKsdYBaNYNH2ER/42KHRl1QZnhJ pksEFIU+Q1jaBleaJUZ8h4RZR2iAtoJ2FGG4VYDCVoTONoRS2FQj4j3vtoVtyH4Itks9 GGpwYyLfx15D5m84GC1tyIf61od/CIiBKIiDSIiFaIiHiIiJqIiLyIiN6IiPCIm1FxAA Ow== --============_-1361164365==_============-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 16:19:26 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA18340; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:17:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:17:49 -0800 Message-ID: <32B8434C.57D3@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 19:17:32 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Reply. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8WhBM1.0.TU4.dc8ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/866 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Dorman wrote: >Forgive my two-cents-worth, but couldn't a capacitor be used to provide >the catlytic voltage potential? Pre-charge it if you must--once the >thing is running, output could be fed back to keep the capacitor >charged, couldn't it? If for some theoretical reason you need total >electrical isolation of the catlytic potential from the power output, >then power a light bulb from the output and have it shine on a >photoelectric cell/battery, and use THAT for your catlytic voltage. >Then no one can say you are sneeking power into the otherwise closed >system. The members of this list server have already gone around the barn with Mr. Newman and Mr. Soule on this. This very question has been asked and answered here before. Mr. Newman's position, from my limited understanding, is that there is a spin orientation differance such that feeding the output energy back into the input of the device nulls out the driving force, and the machine comes to a halt in short order. It has been stated that the machine will not work when driven from a bank of capacitors. If this is so, then the output energy is something quite different from the input energy, as conventional electromagnetic current does not exhibit this behavior. If the machine put out more good old EM than it drew, you would have an embarrasing surplus of energy in that capacitor bank. But alas, this is not the case. As to an energy device needed external power to operate, this is not the case for all devices. There is a device which has a small, but useable output, without any external power source needed at all. If I can do this, why can't Mr. Newman? He's clearly got a lot more time and money invested in his work than I do. The Newman invention will never reach the input to output energy ratio of a machine that needs no external energy input! Researcher investigating the Kromrey, Brandt-Tesla switch, and other "free energy" devices will do well to stay clear of any design based on rechargable batteries. You might learn a lot about such odd phenomena as shock excitation and such, but chemical batteries will fail eventually. You would also be quite suprised at how much energy is used to make a single battery. Use up the battery, and your device had better foot the bill for making that battery, and also for it's proper disposal after it's useful life is over. I'm not saying that you will not find excess energy, but you must assess all the costs of operation, and it may not be clear when you are actually getting energy from ZPE or what have you, as opposed to shock excitation or other methods of getting extra energy from a battery. It can be done without batteries, and without extenal sources of potential. The $1,000,00 question is, how much better can it be done than the design on Bills web site? Better my mark, and lets see how far we can push it. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 16:21:51 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA18695; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:19:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:19:04 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 19:19:55 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Fundamental? Resent-Message-ID: <"S1R0w.0._Z4.qd8ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/867 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>Personally, I don't hold anything to be fundamental.>>> Sounds like a pretty fundamental belief...... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 16:31:12 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA21555; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:29:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:29:20 -0800 Message-ID: <32B84606.39AD@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 19:29:10 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Charge blocking device. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eqat6.0.dG5.Tn8ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/868 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > Hi FreeNrg Men, > > Does anyone made a Charge Blocking Device experience (CBD) ??, Here in > attachement I give my CBDV2 diagram ( MosFet version (V2.0), my Transistor > version is (V1.0)). In my opinion, Mr. Beardens work on charge bocking devices suffers from a major flaw. Readers familiar with Mr. Bearden's earlier works should notice that something major is missing from the charge blocking devices as presented by Mr. Bearden. Exactly what 'translates' the potential back into EM in these designs, and how is this different from the process outlined in the "Towards a New Electromagnetics" series? (Part 3, I think...) Note that several changes in Mr. Beardens terminology have come about between these sets of writings, and this is also reflected in the designs presented. The pure potential side of the device must have no mass in motion, or it's not pure potential, is it? Now refer to Mr. Bearden's discussion of the expression of potential as either EM or scalars. If the potential is able to express itself as EM, it will prefer to do so. This process must be blocked to yeild the scalar expression. Once we have that, it must be 'translated' back into EM to do useful work. This concept appears to be missing from the charge bocking designs. So what happened in between these quite different works of Mr. Bearden? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 16:44:51 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA24318; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:43:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:43:06 -0800 Message-ID: <32B88F35.842@compassnet.com> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:41:25 -0600 From: Ronald Stiffler Reply-To: stiffler@compassnet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: What's going on here? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gGNIl2.0.mx5.N-8ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/869 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I signed on to this list hoping to find people that could help in the area of alternate energy development. Guess the fellow that told me about you must have been wrong. I can think of reasons for 35 messages yesterday and 41 today all except 3 I dumped to the Win95 waste basket. I already decide some weeks ago not to tell of my work or ask for help just for this reason. A bunch of arm chair theorists (if the shoe fits wear it). Good isn't there any rational thinkers left today, is this what a keyboard and modem does, lets the worst come out of people ? I know your not ALL this way, but you know what they say about one bad apple. Sad indeed. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 17:17:45 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA30335; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 17:15:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 17:15:05 -0800 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 17:14:56 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VIRUS WARNING!, didn't "good times" teach us anything? In-Reply-To: <32B82450.413B@ens.ascom.ch> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"bnExO1.0.qP7.MS9ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/870 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 18 Dec 1996, Christian Korfmacher wrote: > Philip Doyle wrote: > > > SNIP > > >> > > >>This was forwarded to me from someone at the Pentagon. Sounds like this > > >>one could get you AND everyone on your system! > > >> > > On which systems? Which mailtools? Must be specific, there's no multi-OS > code > available yet, so it would run on one specific type of OS and mailtool!! > Exactly. Go search web for "good times virus," the urban legend that brought certain companies to their knees. This "penpal virus" is definitely the same thing. It preys on people who don't understand computers very well, and internet newbies who have not yet been embarassed by passing along false warnings of non-existant viruses. The moral: if ANY email message convinces you to send a copy to all your friends, THAT EMAIL MESSAGE IS A MIND VIRUS. Any email message which tries to get you to "replicate" it by appealing to guilt, or making you feel important by spreading warnings of something dangerous, should make all your alarm bells go off. Smirk, say "not this time, idiots," and dump it in the wastebasket. Other mind virii are chain letters, "make money fast" pyramid schemes, urban legends (appeals to send postcards to kids with brain cancer), multilevel marketing, cults, and religions. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 17:28:05 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA00104; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 17:26:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 17:26:05 -0800 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 17:25:48 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Move Newman discussion elsewhere? In-Reply-To: <32b8eb71.8755978@mail.zip.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"0wzU33.0.O1.gc9ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/871 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 18 Dec 1996, Alan Schneider wrote: > On Wed, 18 Dec 1996 12:09:43 +0800 (SGT), Mpower > wrote: > > [snip] > > _>I've got a technique I'd like to pass on to help with the mechanics > _>of dealing with the Newman theories. > > _>Listen, folks, I neither believe nor disbelieve the theory. > > _>But you certainly do take up a lot of bandwidth that could be devoted to > _>data, formula, and observation. > > You are certainly right there. Mr. Soule single-handedly > managed to almost totally clog this group with his polemic > a few months ago. Yes, and so I started up a separate discussion group to handle the traffic. After a couple of weeks Evan started a Newman email list, and the discussion moved there. DOes the Newman List still exist? The debate quickly floods freenrg-L. COuld everyone interested in pursuing the Newman device/theory possibly move the conversation to the Newman email list? .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,.............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 17:59:57 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA10365; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 17:58:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 17:58:54 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:58:46 +0800 (SGT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19961219100300.230f887c@po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8@po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Mpower Subject: Re: Plasma balls in microwaves Resent-Message-ID: <"ujyTN3.0.gX2.R5Ako"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/872 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: RMCarrell@aol.com posted the following (edited for brevity) at 18:04 1996.12.18 -0500: >All the discussion about plasma balls in microwaves is very entertaining, but >I trust that one and all realize that this is not "ball lightning". Nor are >the freestanding arcs that can be produced by highpowered microwave equipment >such as radars. Do you work for the government new tech free knowledge suppression agency or what ? :-) ? Where got freestanding arcs and literature describing such events ? I know about Tesla coils (read all about it on USA-TESLA) but I have never read anything about free-standing arcs. And I, for one, tend to follow a thread to its bitter end if there is no publicly available documentation. cheers ********************************************************** * http://home.pacific.net.sg/~mpowers8 ******** ********************************************************** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 18:20:34 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA15162; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:19:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:19:28 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 21:20:04 -0600 To: bshannon@tiac.net From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Reply. Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"btfCb2.0.oi3.kOAko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/873 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Bob Dorman wrote: > >>Forgive my two-cents-worth, but couldn't a capacitor be used to provide snip---- >>into the otherwise closed system. Bob Shannon wrote: >The members of this list server have already gone around the barn with >Mr. Newman and Mr. Soule' on this. This very question has been asked >and answered here before. > >Mr. Newman's position, from my limited understanding, is that there is >a spin orientation differance such that feeding the output energy back >into the input of the device nulls out the driving force, and the machine >comes to a halt in short order. Dear Bob: The key words in your above statement is "from my limited understanding." These words of yours are quite accurate. This is the bottom line -- Joseph Newman has explicitly asked me to pass this along: Joseph Newman will consider someone qualified to debate or discuss with him any single aspect of his technology (such as the two coil experiment or his operational energy machine embodiment) when that individual has _also_ presented a SINGLE MECHANICAL EXPLANATION (other than the gyroscopic particle) for the diverse phenomena, e.g. magnetism, electricity, heat, light, inertia, gravitation, planetary motion, etc., as described in his original post of 12/14/96. Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 18:23:36 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA15724; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:22:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:22:45 -0800 X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1361156701==_============" Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 21:23:15 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: gif Resent-Message-ID: <"TYjVi3.0.Vr3.pRAko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/874 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --============_-1361156701==_============ Content-Type: 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a7fGZeq3oAlFhn84fX5ra076QNzTYi+6j3Jat3Tbg5GLe4tUWDe4VgtquYl5oh9ZgO5o GrLZbT6JQtzJhH/ruY+Lup73newkI/SlhaS0UH6mQa67XFIZSbQGZ6jVk1c7odnkX6Fh nqa5tanLsnFYulW6lfMImN9kZPOhgIxnu4ykZhCluwDYuo93gYuJXizmuMSLs/MFUB2D oWU4UdURoTe4t7EJM9xYdcdIlxXIn60Jmzp0R/Rovt3rvTf7Wv9pvl+ctV4FlHusVL25 VL50NXq6uV6k+4jpK7useGLHC5X4m781a6OoJWLtg2cRuF+4O5ImKnsWLFeu15v397mz ZrgNfLxkxbxpuYBhOsE2a4wHppDk6JspWGE1jG3JZ7ulF4sGCLfRa4PgiKHvZYMQOrwv jMRat7Phl6dJ7MQat3vxssRPTMUu58JmU8VZrMVbzMVd7MVfDMZhLMZjTMZlbMZnjMZp rMZrzMZt7MZvDMdxLMdzTMd1bMd3jMdaHBAAOw== --============_-1361156701==_============-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 18:40:25 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA19385; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:39:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:39:20 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 21:38:39 -0500 Message-ID: <961218171952_810456384@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: To Wharton Resent-Message-ID: <"2GYq6.0.ok4.LhAko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/875 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>It has often been the case in the history of science where a mechanical model has preceded a mathematical model. This was certainly true for Michael Faraday and James Clerk Maxwell. Joseph Newman's explicit mechanical model certainly consists of more than "narritive(sic) hand waving" -- as you attempt to describe. And his operational prototypes are further proof of the validity of his mechanical model which he knew was correct before he constructed his first prototype.>>>> How would we know what exactly Newman's idea predicts without mathematical foundation? It's just too vague. BTW, I know I said I would stop fighting, and this is the last time. :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 22:57:27 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA06426; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 20:51:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 20:51:15 -0800 From: RMCarrell@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 23:50:29 -0500 Message-ID: <961218230517_1456425161@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Correa Homepage Resent-Message-ID: <"kOom33.0.Ha1._cCko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/876 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 96-12-18 13:14:44 EST, Richard Austin wrote: >>This looks extremely interesting. Has anyone replicated their work? The endorsement by Apsden of their development of a 1kw O/U device is very encouraging.<< >>Where can these articles be found on the net?<< An artticle by Dr. Correa, and one of my articles from Infinite Energy #8 have been scanned and posted at http://www.geocities.con/SunserStrip/2877/correa.html and ..../correa1.html. However, you should get and read the three patents which are referenced at the Correa homepage. One, and part of another, are published in Infinite Energy # 7 (which also contains and article by me on Newman's work). My articles on the Correa invention follow in issues 8 & 9. The atricle in issue 9 corrects some errors in the labeling of Fig 4, clarifies Fig 5, and provides additional data supporting o/u operation. Information about IE magazine can be found at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JedRothwell. This is the one moderately priced magazine convering the new energy field. The patents contain detailed information on the construction and testing of the Correa reactors, as well as extensive references to the technical literature. Certain details of the exact nature of the phenomena producing the energy bursts are yet proprietary. The patents cover work up to 1992. Dr. Aspden has a homepage at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/H_ASPDEN and information for ordering his books and technical reports can be found there. Aspden's work is a detailed reworking of physics starting from an Aether hypothesis (with the properties of the Aether defined by him), using geometery, algebra and careful reasoning which will require the full attention of any reader. It is not casual or glib work. Mike Carrell From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 23:53:32 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA20235; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 22:19:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 22:19:16 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 01:19:01 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199612190619.BAA08061@freenet6.carleton.ca> From: ao260@freenet.carleton.ca (Ken Campbell) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: reply Reply-To: ao260@freenet.carleton.ca Resent-Message-ID: <"CRGFg3.0.0y4.XvDko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/878 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>Forgive my two-cents-worth, but couldn't a capacitor be used to provide the catlytic voltage potential? Pre-charge it if you must--once the ... Then no one can say you are sneeking power into the otherwise closed system. --Bob << >So as not to belabor a discussion which has been addressed previously, I >would invite you to visit your local library, obtain a copy of The Energy >Machine of Joseph Newman and study the full context of this subject as >described in Section 21+ beginning at the top of page 58 where he >specifically analyzes the question in detail: "Why can't one simply feed >the generated, output current back into itself, eliminating the need for an >input battery?" I am deeply interested. My local libraries do not carry the text, nor will they be ordering it (I asked). I am a student; I cannot afford the $75.00US + shipping + US to Canadian currency conversion. I would love to hear the answer to Mr. Beaty's question, but I have to "Buy the Book"? I am truly depressed. -Ken. -- ----{ }----{ }----{ }----{ }----{ }----{ }----{ }----{ }----{ }----{ }---- >>> "If God is all, how can I be evil?" - Charles Manson >> "A whole nation could be held hostage > by their own genetic codes: - Monte Cazazza From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 23:54:13 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA16527; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 21:53:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 21:53:40 -0800 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 23:59:08 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961218235112.320f7366@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: Re: Plasma balls in microwaves Resent-Message-ID: <"4xY4U3.0.524.YXDko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/877 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:04 PM 12/18/96 -0500, you wrote: >All the discussion about plasma balls in microwaves is very entertaining, but >I trust that one and all realize that this is not "ball lightning". Nor are >the freestanding arcs that can be produced by highpowered microwave equipment >such as radars. > >These manifestations depend on high intensity standing waves generated by an >rf generator and are tied to the space around them. Ball lightning is a >self-sustaining plasmoid which once formed is free to wander some distance >from the triggering event or device. > >Mike Carrell Hello all, If they are getting 2 or 3 fire balls and they kill the power to microwave amd the fireballs continue on would that suggest that they are fireball??? Or if they have a measuring device that give a visual or audio sound and maybe video tape it and kill pwr to microwave how long does a fire ball have continue to be self sustaining? This asked as a question, not critisim to the previous comment. Thanks Mike S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 23:54:47 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA21236; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 22:24:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 22:24:15 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 01:24:01 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199612190624.BAA08240@freenet6.carleton.ca> From: ao260@freenet.carleton.ca (Ken Campbell) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: reply Reply-To: ao260@freenet.carleton.ca Resent-Message-ID: <"aVLYP1.0.jB5.D-Dko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/879 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: scratch that last message... My server just let me read messages that answer the 'catalytic' problem... (holding half my work directory hostage until I erased the plethora of messages I recieved all at once, regarding the debate :) -ken -- ----{ }----{ }----{ }----{ }----{ }----{ }----{ }----{ }----{ }----{ }---- >>> "If God is all, how can I be evil?" - Charles Manson >> "A whole nation could be held hostage > by their own genetic codes: - Monte Cazazza From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 18 23:54:51 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA23916; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 22:38:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 22:38:14 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 00:43:49 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961219003552.40472a20@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: Mail failure Resent-Message-ID: <"Jo2ee.0.br5.LBEko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/880 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > >At 06:04 PM 12/18/96 -0500, you wrote: >>All the discussion about plasma balls in microwaves is very entertaining, >but >>I trust that one and all realize that this is not "ball lightning". Nor >are >>the freestanding arcs that can be produced by highpowered microwave >equipment >>such as radars. >> >>These manifestations depend on high intensity standing waves generated by >an >>rf generator and are tied to the space around them. Ball lightning is a >>self-sustaining plasmoid which once formed is free to wander some distance >>from the triggering event or device. >> >>Mike Carrell > >Hello all, >If they are getting 2 or 3 fire balls and they kill the power to >microwave >amd the fireballs continue on would that suggest that they are >fireball??? >Or if they have a measuring device that give a visual or audio sound and >maybe video tape it and kill pwr to microwave how long does a fire ball >have >continue to be self sustaining? > >This asked as a question, not critisim to the previous comment. >Thanks Mike S. > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 19 00:08:04 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA28477; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 23:07:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 23:07:37 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 01:06:25 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199612190706.BAA03221@bluestem.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Inquiring minds want to know Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"xUyrj3.0.ky6.tcEko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/881 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>> >>>Would you agree that the energy in electromagnetic phenomena IS _mechanical >>>energy_ -- consisting of "matter-in-motion" -- and that the "Lines of >>Force" are indeed PHYSICAL? >>> >> >>Energy is a PHYSICAL phenomenon. Space, energy and matter are MADE >>UP OF motion - "only this and nothing more" (Apologies to Edgar Allen Poe.) >> >>"Lines of force" are only geometric attempts at a representation of a >>physical cause/effect relationship. They do not actually exist. >> >>See GEOMETRODYNAMICS by John Archibald Wheeler. >> >snip--- >> >>Zack > >Dear Zack, > >With all due respect to the poetry of Edgar Allen Poe and the writings of >John Archibald Wheeler, I place my confidence with Michael Faraday and >James Clerk Maxwell. > >It was Michael Faraday who said (and I quote), > > "How few understand the PHYSICAL lines of force." > >It was James Clerk Maxwell who said (and I quote), > > "In speaking of the Energy of the field, however, I wish > to be understood literally. THE ENERGY IN ELECTROMAGNETIC > PHENOMENA _IS_ MECHANICAL ENERGY." (emphasis added) > >Maxwell goes on to describe the nature of the electromagnetic field as >consisting of "MATTER IN MOTION". Well, James Clerk Maxwell and Michael Faraday have done much to advance the scientific theories of the day. However, to assume that the theories they presented were absolutely correct or complete would be to subscribe to the idea that advancement is not possible. It would be a severe letdown to me to believe that we have not discovered anything new since their time. Their theories may apply on a macroscopic scale, but science has advanced beyond that point by now. Their theories are incomplete (do not encompass all phenomena observable by current capabilities.) The world now begins at a sub-microscopic ("virtual") level. > >My question would be: What is the _explicit_ mechanical nature of this >"MATTER IN MOTION?" Joseph Newman maintains that the explicit mechanical >nature of this "MATTER IN MOTION" is _Gyroscopic_. Understanding this was >a "key" which enabled him to open the doors to many areas of investigation: >"inertia, gravitation, light, heat, (electro)magnetism, planetary motion, >and related astronomical observations. > >Re the words from the reference to Wheeler's Geometrodynamics, "...a >physical cause/effect relationship..." my question would be, what is the >fundamental mechanical nature of this _physical_ cause/effect relationship >with respect to magnetism? > >Joseph Newman maintains that this Gyroscopic Particle is the fundamental >mechanical essence of the (electro)magnetic fields of which we have spoken. > >At the beginning of Chapter 11 (Light) from the book, The Energy Machine of >Joseph Newman, there is featured a quotation from John Archibald Wheeler >which is one of my favorites: > >"Planck's discovery of the quantum in 1900 drove a crack in the armor that >still covers the deep and secret principles of existence. In the >exploitation of that opening we are at the beginning, not the end. Someday >we'll understand the whole thing as one single marvelous vision that will >seem so overwhelmingly simple and beautiful that we will say to each other >-- Oh, how could be have been so stupid for so long? How could it have >been otherwise!" > --- John Archibald Wheeler > >And with respect to John Archibald Wheeler's quotation, I conclude with the >statement by R J Burkholder: > >"It is becoming clear to me that most (if not all) of conventional EM >theory can be explained in terms of gyroscopic particles. However, Newman's >theories go >beyond EM, even as far as unifying the five forces of nature (electric, >magnetic, weak force, strong force, and gravity). This could be the Holy Grail >of modern physics!" > >Sincerely, > >Evan Soule' > One may quote statements by John Archibald Wheeler or Michael Faraday, but this does not indicate that one has read and understood fully all they have written. I have read Nr. Newman's book; I have also read other material such as GEOMETRODYNAMICS by Wheeler; GRAVITATION by Misner, Thorne and Wheeler; "The Many-Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics" by Hugh Everitt; "Hypernumbers II" by Charles Muses; other materials on quantum electrodynamics (Puthoff, Olariu and Popescu, Boyer and other landmark papers.) I also studied electrical engineering to the Ph.D. level, so I am well-versed in the basics. In my last posting I left a couple gaps wide open which I thought some inquisitive mind may ask about. However, no one asked about them. (Why?) I know this group is not for discussion of heavy theories, but I thought I'd throw a couple ideas out; things that were not known or even suspected in Maxwell's or Faraday's time. Perhaps this data will give a few people a few ideas which may open a few doors toward free energy devices. This is my understanding based on much of the materials I have read. The first question I expected to be asked after stating that energy and matter consisted of only motion was "Well, what's moving?" The idea is that locations of space themselves are moving (changing). The motions are totally random (not gyroscopic) and of a very small order (no greater than 10E-33 cm). (See GEOMETRODYNAMICS and the chapter on wormhole theory). It is this random motion of points of space themselves which creates time. Hence, there is no such thing as "space"; it must be "spacetime". There seem to be many other terms given to this phenomenon, such as "zero-point energy", "virtual particle flux", "Zitterbewegung", "quantum foam", etc. Anther question which could be asked is "Well, how does this spacetime get turned into energy and mass?" This is moving up an order of magnitude or more from the concept of spacetime and out of the "virtual" world and into the world of observable physics. There are many theories in QED and quantum mechanics on how energy and mass is formed; superstring theory, spinor theory and many others. The last few chapters of GRAVITATION have a great theory on how an electron could be formed. But the basic idea is that the randomness of spacetime becomes ordered or condensed [less random] (giving energy) and even more condensed and self-sustaining (mass). So it really could be made up of nothing but motion. One concern of some free energy researchers is that by taking some of the random motion of spacetime and condensing or ordering it, they will be locally altering spacetime; the effects of this on living things is unknown. Hwever, since the zero-point energy is on the order of 5 X 10E93 grams per cubic cm (!), I think the quantities of energy most of us are interested in would create a negligible effect (my own guess). Well, enough ramblings from this madman. I could be totally wrong. Or I may have my foot in the door. I hope it's the latter. Whatever the case, I hope you agree some of these are (fairly) new ideas. I hope this is not "old hat" to at least a few of you. Read some of the abovementioned references and have fun, as I have! Zack Widup w9sz@prairienet.org P.S. Happy Holidays! -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 19 05:04:47 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA32374; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 05:03:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 05:03:56 -0800 Message-Id: <199612191303.IAA19362@transfer.stratus.com> From: Charlie Hodgson Date: Thu, 19 Dec 96 07:41:06 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Cheese and Flashlights (Re: Statement of 12/14/96) In-Reply-To: <961218170909_1820525051@emout14.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.22 (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"714yh1.0.iv7.wqJko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/882 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In <961218170909_1820525051@emout14.mail.aol.com>, on 12/18/96 at 06:55 PM, AdamGrosmn@aol.com said: >>>>Personally, I don't hold anything to be fundamental.>>> >Same with me...but what if I told you the Earth was really a big ball of >cheese and that stars are just people holding flashlights in the sky? Of >course you wouldn't believe me! It's too stupid to believe! It's not that it is too stupid to believe, rather that we know for a fact that the earth is not made of cheese (though personally I couldn't swear the core wasn't). As for stars being 'people holding flashlights in the sky', I would need precise definitions for the words 'people' 'holding' 'flashlights' and 'sky' before I could comment on that statement. If the words you use are used in there normal context, again we know that not to be true. If each of the words were used in some symbolic sense, then I could not dispute it, nor could anybody prove it not to be a possibility. Why? We, as a people, know nothing, absolutely nothing, of where we are and how we got here. Physics deals entirely with the known universe _after_ it's creation. It does not attempt to explain what was before hand nor from where it all came. The Big Bang is wonderful in that it attempts to explain how the dimensions and time unfolded as a result. Convienently, physics deals with the universe roughly 3 E-44 seconds after the big bang. I want to know what was 3 E-44 seconds before the big bang. Charlie -- A bug is a feature that didn't make the manual. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 19 05:33:02 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA03446; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 05:32:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 05:32:14 -0800 Message-Id: <199612191332.IAA20629@transfer.stratus.com> From: Charlie Hodgson Date: Thu, 19 Dec 96 08:22:57 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VIRUS WARNING!!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <961218144459_810423281@emout08.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.22 (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"o0EIq1.0.hr.SFKko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/883 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In <961218144459_810423281@emout08.mail.aol.com>, on 12/18/96 at 04:40 PM, AdamGrosmn@aol.com said: >This is exactly like the "Good Times" virus, which was a hoax. The virus >code has to be run for it to do anything (just like a normal program. >After all, a virus is just a program!)! Reading e-mail just READS the >message, it doesn't run ANY code. So don't be fooled, it's just a big >hoax. As a point of clarification, PENPALS is a hoax, but it is possible to infect your system by reading E-Mail. How, you ask?? As MIME becomes more the norm, users have gotten sloppy in auto-detaching everything that comes in. Macro viruses exist that infect Microsoft Word documents. Reading, yes reading, an infected document in Word will propagate itself to other documents. If you use a Word Viewer, and not word itself, you are safe. Postscript files also have the capacity to carry unwanted extra baggage with itself. You can attach programs to mail. If they are run, they can infect your system as well. So, be careful in what you detach and how you access the attachemnts. Never autorun an attached executable and beware of any attachements that can contain macros that use an external program to run. But never worry about reading plain text. Charlie -- An ounce of application is worth a ton of abstraction. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 19 05:35:27 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA04310; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 05:34:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 05:34:38 -0800 X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 08:35:35 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Direct observations Resent-Message-ID: <"SgHbl.0.331.gHKko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/884 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>>It has often been the case in the history of science where a mechanical >model has preceded a mathematical model. This was certainly true for >Michael Faraday and James Clerk Maxwell. Joseph Newman's explicit >mechanical model certainly consists of more than "narritive(sic) hand >waving" -- as you attempt to describe. And his operational prototypes are >further proof of the validity of his mechanical model which he knew was >correct before he constructed his first prototype.>>>> > >How would we know what exactly Newman's idea predicts without mathematical >foundation? It's just too vague. > >BTW, I know I said I would stop fighting, and this is the last time. :) The concepts are quite explicit and are predicated on direct observations. There is a technique for addressing one's vague understanding --- as in any subject: one should study it. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 19 05:36:20 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA04538; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 05:35:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 05:35:26 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 07:41:00 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961219073302.372f8dba@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: plasma ball Resent-Message-ID: <"56Sdt3.0.m61.SIKko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/885 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>At 06:04 PM 12/18/96 -0500, you wrote: >>>All the discussion about plasma balls in microwaves is very entertaining, >>but >>>I trust that one and all realize that this is not "ball lightning". Nor >>are >>>the freestanding arcs that can be produced by highpowered microwave >>equipment >>>such as radars. >>> >>>These manifestations depend on high intensity standing waves generated by >>an >>>rf generator and are tied to the space around them. Ball lightning is a >>>self-sustaining plasmoid which once formed is free to wander some distance >>>from the triggering event or device. >>> >>>Mike Carrell >> >>Hello all, >>If they are getting 2 or 3 fire balls and they kill the power to >>microwave >>amd the fireballs continue on would that suggest that they are >>fireball??? >>Or if they have a measuring device that give a visual or audio sound and >>maybe video tape it and kill pwr to microwave how long does a fire ball >>have >>continue to be self sustaining? >> >>This asked as a question, not critisim to the previous comment. >>Thanks Mike S. >> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 19 05:52:32 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA07768; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 05:51:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 05:51:27 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 08:52:24 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Cheese and Flashlights (Re: Statement of 12/14/96) Resent-Message-ID: <"hZvRg.0.Hv1.TXKko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/886 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >In <961218170909_1820525051@emout14.mail.aol.com>, on 12/18/96 > at 06:55 PM, AdamGrosmn@aol.com said: > >>>>>Personally, I don't hold anything to be fundamental.>>> > >>Same with me...but what if I told you the Earth was really a big ball of >>cheese and that stars are just people holding flashlights in the sky? Of >>course you wouldn't believe me! It's too stupid to believe! > >It's not that it is too stupid to believe, rather that we know for a fact >that the earth is not made of cheese (though personally I couldn't swear >the core wasn't). > >As for stars being 'people holding flashlights in the sky', I would need >precise definitions for the words 'people' 'holding' 'flashlights' and >'sky' before I could comment on that statement. If the words you use are >used in there normal context, again we know that not to be true. > >If each of the words were used in some symbolic sense, then I could not >dispute it, nor could anybody prove it not to be a possibility. > >Why? > >We, as a people, know nothing, absolutely nothing, of where we are and >how we got here. Physics deals entirely with the known universe _after_ >it's creation. It does not attempt to explain what was before hand nor >from where it all came. The Big Bang is wonderful in that it attempts to >explain how the dimensions and time unfolded as a result. Convienently, >physics deals with the universe roughly 3 E-44 seconds after the big >bang. I want to know what was 3 E-44 seconds before the big bang. > > >Charlie > Since Albert's psyche is still riding that lone light beam across the cosmos, perhaps he'll send us a message about those 3 E-44 seconds, although we may have to wait a while .... relatively speaking. Evan =9C QMPro 1.53 =9C Anything demonstrated for a repairman will work perfectl= y From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 19 06:39:11 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA16176; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 06:38:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 06:38:20 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:38:05 -0500 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: richarda@icx.net (Richard Austin) Subject: Newman device, is it for sale? Resent-Message-ID: <"LFYrn.0.fy3.PDLko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/887 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>Could we please put this Newman device thread to sleep? >> >>Either it works and is demonstrable, i.e. self running. Or it is not. Let's >>analyze theories after we see a working device which can power itself. >> >>Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU >>Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at >>http://user.icx.net/~richarda > >Dear Richard, > >I've indicated that videotapes are available if you wish to view an >operational model(s). Aside from constructing your own or visiting Joseph >Newman's laboratory in Lucedale, Mississippi --- these are the options for >viewing a working device. > >Sincerely, > >Evan Soule' My understanding is that the Newman unit cannot run in a self powering mode,-- i.e. self regenerating over unity. I could be wrong, please advise me if your unit can power a house, or the like, indefinitely. If it can, I suggest you go into production and sell them. I personally would like a 5-10 kw unit, preferably at a cost of under $1000. Do you know when will you have such units for sale? Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 19 07:49:16 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA30977; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 07:48:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 07:48:21 -0800 X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:49:17 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Reply to query Resent-Message-ID: <"7pL-J.0.qZ7.2FMko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/888 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >My understanding is that the Newman unit cannot run in a self powering >mode,-- i.e. self regenerating over unity. I could be wrong, please advise >me if your unit can power a house, or the like, indefinitely. > >If it can, I suggest you go into production and sell them. I personally >would like a 5-10 kw unit, preferably at a cost of under $1000. > >Do you know when will you have such units for sale? > >Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU >Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at >http://user.icx.net/~richarda Dear Mr. Austin, The energy machine of Joseph Newman produces "greater external energy output than external energy input." [I will forward to you a SPECIAL REPORT which may assist you in understanding the nature of the technology.] To date, the units which have been constructed have powered lights, table saws, water pumps, home appliance fans, and automobiles. Joseph Newman has every intent of producing this technology and is actively pursuing steps at this time towards this end. I cannot give you a specific date when units will be available for sale, but I can certainly notify you when such is the case. Sincerely, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 josephnewman@earthlink.net http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 19 08:00:12 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA01419; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 07:59:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 07:59:23 -0800 From: MMcCoy@micro.honeywell.com (McCoy, Mark) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (freenrg-l) Message-Id: <1996Dec19.095931.1650.447543@smtpmail.micro.honeywell.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail via PostalUnion/SMTP for Windows NT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:00:47 GMT Subject: Re: cheesey stuff - Statement of 12/14/9 Resent-Message-ID: <"RHMHa1.0.0M.PPMko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/889 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: snip-- >Same with me...but what if I told you the Earth was really a big ball of >cheese and that stars are just people holding flashlights in the sky? Of >course you wouldn't believe me! It's too stupid to believe! When I was small, I was told that the moon was made of cheese. I was dismayed when astronauts came back and announced that it was in fact made of rock. After giving it a little thought, though, it all made perfect sense. Everyone knows what happens to cheese if you leave it out too long! grin ;} Truth is absolute and exists regardless of our awareness or understanding of it. At times, the best we can hope for is to strive for understanding and be content with functionality. Merry Christmas and happy holidays to all, Mark McCoy mmccoy@micro.honeywell.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 19 09:28:35 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA18567; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:23:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:23:13 -0800 Message-ID: <32B933A1.75BC@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:22:57 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Is reality mechanical? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rV_aM.0.zX4.-dNko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/890 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Josef Hasslberger wrote: >I think we must prefer, at least in first approximation, a mechanical model >for the phenomena we seek to describe. Maybe not mechanical in the strict >sense of the word. It might be hydrodynamic, or whatever. Why? What justification exists for this apparent bias? >But once we get into abstract descriptions such as relativity or quantum >mechanics, we 'lose ground' so to speak, we are no longer to logically >follow what's supposed to be happening. Wrong. Relativity and quantum phenomena are very real, proven phenomena. How do you know before hand what is "supposed to be happening", and that is must be mechanical, or hydrodynamic in nature? We must be aware that there is a wide range of very real effects that show that at fundemental levels, this is not the true nature of reality. Do you propose we dismiss such emperical evidence on asthetic grounds? More ground has been gained from quantum theory than lost to it. There are commercial devices which own their existance to the reaity of quantum behavior. >I am not saying that these descriptions are not useful. They are. But they >should not be viewed as an adequate description of reality. They are >mathematical crutches that let us work in the absence of a basic theory >that allows us to visualise what's happening. Why do you assume that these descriptions of actual phenomena are inadequate when they accurately describe real phenomena? They are not simply mathimatical crutches as you claim. They are proven to work more accurately than the older mechanical models. Why? >Somehow I think that all phenomena in this world are accessible to >understanding by an averagely gifted mind, if only we can find a basic >enough level of description. How can we justify the bias that the limits of reality should bare any resemblance to our day to day experiances? I think this is an unjustifiable bias, that cannot stand in the face of very real phenomena observed in emperical testing. I feel that the universe has no obligation to operate in ways we find familiar from our very limited experiance. To assume it must flirts with arrogance. History shows us that we have often assumed that something operated in a familiar way, only to discover years later that the truth of the matter was something quite different from our normal experiance. It was taught that there were four, familiar elements. Fire, Earth, Air and water have been replaced with the periodic chart. Now the elements of the periodic chart have ben reduced to formations of more basic components which are totally unfamiliar to our day to day experiance. Must we now return to the four elements because they are more familiar to us than the periodic chart? If direct experimental evidence shows us that the particles comprising the periodic chart are not quite physical objects, what then? We must learn to expand our concepts of what is familiar to accept experimental reality, not try to shoe horn reality into our current concepts of the familiar. Sciance must teach us about reality, becuase we cannot teach sciance to fit within our concepts of the familiar or comfortable. If there is a reason why we have any expectation that this is not the case, I would dearly love to come to understand it. Could someone patiently explain this to me? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 19 11:44:02 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA17517; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:41:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:41:17 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:40:58 -0500 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: richarda@icx.net (Richard Austin) Subject: Re: Correa Homepage Resent-Message-ID: <"JU35r.0.aH4.RfPko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/891 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >In a message dated 96-12-18 13:14:44 EST, Richard Austin wrote: > > >>This looks extremely interesting. Has anyone replicated their work? The > endorsement by Apsden of their development of a 1kw O/U device is very > encouraging.<< > >>>Where can these articles be found on the net?<< > >An artticle by Dr. Correa, and one of my articles from Infinite Energy #8 >have been scanned and posted at >http://www.geocities.con/SunserStrip/2877/correa.html and > ..../correa1.html. > >However, you should get and read the three patents which are referenced at >the Correa homepage. One, and part of another, are published in Infinite >Energy # 7 (which also contains and article by me on Newman's work). My >articles on the Correa invention follow in issues 8 & 9. The atricle in issue >9 corrects some errors in the labeling of Fig 4, clarifies Fig 5, and >provides additional data supporting o/u operation. > >Information about IE magazine can be found at >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JedRothwell. This is the one >moderately priced magazine convering the new energy field. > >The patents contain detailed information on the construction and testing of >the Correa reactors, as well as extensive references to the technical >literature. Certain details of the exact nature of the phenomena producing >the energy bursts are yet proprietary. The patents cover work up to 1992. *** Does this mean that the patents do NOT enable one "skilled in the art" to reproduce the machines? What is the nature of the withheld information? *** > >Dr. Aspden has a homepage at >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/H_ASPDEN and information for >ordering his books and technical reports can be found there. Aspden's work is >a detailed reworking of physics starting from an Aether hypothesis (with the >properties of the Aether defined by him), using geometery, algebra and >careful reasoning which will require the full attention of any reader. It is >not casual or glib work. > >Mike Carrell > > > > > > Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 19 13:04:13 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA03543; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:03:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:03:21 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 22:05:17 +0100 Message-Id: <199612192105.WAA10478@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: gwatson@enternet.com.au From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: New article about Flux-Gate generator available ! Cc: bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"_uCOm.0.9t.MsQko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/892 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Hi Stephan, > >I have too many years in induction generator design. Too many people >think that just because you don't move the magnet/coil somehow >nature is fooled. The reality is very simple if you realize that >the moving inductor is still part of the flux path. Look at a LIAG, >Flux Gate or whatever and you will see that the moving flux element >is still involved in a classic magent/coil arrangement with a >complex flux path. The only new item is that the moving flux element >can only undergo magnetic attraction and would seem to offer overunity >potential. But consider reality. IF no current flows in the output >coil, the force of attraction as the moving element moves toward >the point of max flux will equal the force of attraction as the moving >element moves away from the point of max flux minus any core losses/ >magnet B/H curve changes. As current is drawn from the load, things >change and the moving element is attracted less strongly on approach >and attracted more strongly on exit. This additional power must be >supplied from the rotary source and in my experience is ALWAYS more >that the power supplied via the coil. > >Damn.......Mother Nature Wins Again. > >-- >Best Regards, >Greg Watson, >Greg Watson Consulting, >Adelaide, South Australia, >gwatson@enternet.com.au > Dear Greg, here is the answer from my friend Dieter Bauer: He thinks that you have not yet read the whole article completely. He has worked out the machine and its mathematical equations directly from the Lenz law !!! and the electrodynamic induction theory and has put it all into the differential equations ! So now he can REALLY PREDICT, which parameters have to be altered to get the right effects. He says, that you are true with the coil current under certain conditions, but and that is the BIG NEWS: We have now the formular to alter all parameters and calculate the real quantitative results ! So, he has CALCULATED the overunity output using his formulars ! So if you say, it does not work you have to show, where his formulars are incorrect ! At least, until nobody can prove his formulars wrong, mathematically seen it produces overunity with his choosen parameters ! If anybody has not got the thread, here again is the URL for the article which is highly recommend to read: www.overunity.de/theory.htm Second article on this page about the Ecklin-Bedini-Flux-Gate-Converter ! Here is still his German language answer for the German folks out there: >Hallo Stefan ! > >Ich habe das Gefuehl, dass Greg Watson den Artikel garnicht genau gelesen >hat, denn das, was er kritisiert - was ich vergessen haette- ist im Ansatz >der aufgestellten Differentialgleichung alles enthalten. Ich bin ja von >der Lenz'schen Regel - dem Induktionsgesetz- ausgegangen (!!!) und der >Strom verhaelt sich ja auch bei mir im grossen und ganzen so wie er sagt >(nicht ganz so am Punkt des maximalen Flusses, wo der Strom sich umkehren >muss und weil er dazu Zeit braucht, der sich wendende Spulenstrom waehrend >eines kleinen Moments das Rausdrehmoment auf den Rotor abschwaecht), >entscheidend ist jedoch, dass durch die Rechnung man in der Lage ist, all >diese Dinge quantitativ abzuschaetzen, und man erkennt, welche Groesse man >aendern muss, damit das gewuenschte Ergebnis rauskommt. >Daher sollte er - wenn er mich wirklich konstruktiv und immanent >kritisieren will, eine Gegenrechnung machen und mir im Ansatz oder in der >Rechnung einen Fehler nachweisen - oder experimentelle Daten vorlegen, die >meinen Vorhersagen eklatant widersprechen! > >Beste Gruesse > >Dieter > Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 19 13:48:28 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA12212; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:45:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:45:05 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961219134421.0091e880@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: Epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:44:22 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Dissipating energy in NOT a problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"cFYBv.0.i-2.WTRko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/893 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I could be correct about permanent magnets loosing their magnetization eventually. I however have never observed it. If the conventional theory of electron orbital current and proton/electron spin are correct than this would mean that the material comprising the magnet would eventually loose integrity as the energy is extracted form the subatomic particles. This might be just a large amount of energy and its decay may be to slow to notice Comment's anyone ? P.S. I am including my original post on the bottom for your convenience. At 06:44 PM 12/18/96 -0500, you wrote: >>>>>Extra energy is produced because the approach of the iron plate into the >magnet-coil gap induces current in the coil for free. Furthermore this >electric current sets up a magnetic field in the coil that oposes the change >caused by the shielding effect of the iron plate. This magnetic field adds >to the attraction of the iron plate into the gap, for free.>>> > >If energy is produced using permanent magnets, then you are using the >magnatism FROM the magnet to do something, right? Well, if that is the case, >the permanent magnet must slowly run out of magnetism (it is only called a >permanent magnet because it doesn't need electric current to be magnetic.) > > >Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:48:02 -0800 >X-Sender: Epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com >Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:47:53 -0800 >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com >From: Epitaxy >Subject: Re: Magnetic Shielding - for "dummies" >X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) >Resent-Message-ID: <"jqM_Z3.0.YF4.VdWjo"@mx1> >Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/786 >X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > >< View the below drawing with monospaced font and this screen width > > > >MAGNETIC SHIELDING > > > >For example take two permanent magnets in S-S configuration and iron plate >like this. (the plate is restricted to move only in vertical direction) > > > LEGEND: NNNNSSSS a permanent magnet with North & South poles > IIIIIIII a soft iron plate > CCCCCCCC an electromagnetic coil > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >NNNNSSSS SSSSNNNN > > > I > I > I > I > I (iron plate attracted up) > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >The iron plate will be pulled into the gap between the magnets like this > > > I > I >NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN > I > I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >But if the gap between the magnets is LARGER the iron plate will stop here. > This configuration is not useful for our purposes. > > > >NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN > I > I > I > I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >If the magnets are oriented S-N the iron plate will also stop here because >iron plate is equally attracted to North or South poles: > > > I > I >NNNNSSSS I NNNNSSSS > I > I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) > > >********************************************************************* > > >If we now consider this sequence of events > >_____________________________________________________________________ > >Both magnets attract the iron plate into the gap > > >NNNNSSSS SSSSNNNN > > > I > I > I > I > I (iron plate moving up) > >Fig #1 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > I > I >NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN > I > I (iron plate moving up) > > > >Fig #2 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >One of the magnets is removed or annihilated. > > > I > I >NNNNSSSS I > I > I (iron plate moving up) > > > >Fig #3 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I > I > I > I > I (iron plate moving up) > >NNNNSSSS > >Fig #4 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >We will notice that the iron plate gains more energy getting pulled between >the magnets (Fig #1 & #2) then it looses during the back drag (Fig #3 & #4) >because one of the magnets has been removed. One might immediately say >here: "...wait a minute you just had to expend energy removing one of the >magnets..." and you would be correct in the above case. > >HOWEVER if we were using a coil instead of the magnet we could turn it off >(and the magnetic field it produces) without expending any energy > >So what exactly happens if we substitute one of the magnets with a coil ? > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >At the beginning (Fig #5) the coil sees the maximum intensity of the south >pole produced by the permanent magnet. > >As the iron plate is pulled into the gap between the permanent magnet and >the coil, the iron shield starts REDIRECTING more and more of the magnetic >field (splitting the field) produced by the permanent magnet AWAY from the >coil. The net result of this is that the coil starts seeing less and less >of the south pole (which is provided by the permanent magnet). > >According to the Lenz law if the circuit of the coil is closed, the coil >will try to resist this change in the strength of the aforementioned south >pole by circulating electric current through its windings in such a way >that the coil will PRODUCE its own south pole in order to keep the >intensity of the south pole near the coil exactly what it was before the >iron plate (shield) started moving into the gap. The coil acts as an >ultimate conservative :-) > >This electric current in the coil can be dissipated in a useful load during >the whole approach phase (or later when the coil is open circuited) > >The CRUCIAL effect is that this magnetic south pole created by the coil >will also attract the iron plate into the gap between the magnet and the >coil just like it was happening in Fig #1. A south pole is a south pole, >regardless whether it is produced by a magnet or a coil, right ?. > >So the moving iron plate will be attracted into the gap by BOTH the magnet >and the coil analogously to Fig #1 > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >NNNNSSSS CCCCCCCC Coil closed (producing South pole) > > > I > I > I > I > I (iron plate moving up) >#5 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > I > I >NNNNSSSS I CCCCCCCC Coil closed (producing South pole) > I > I (iron plate moving up) > > > > >#6 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > I > I >NNNNSSSS I CCCCCCCC Coil open ( inert ) > I > I (iron plate moving up) > > > > >#7 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I > I > I > I > I (iron plate moving up) > >NNNNSSSS CCCCCCCC Coil open (inert) >#8 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >In Fig #6 the iron plate will shield the coil from all of the intensity of >the south pole created by the permanent magnet and if the closed coil was >superconductive and didn't have any resistive losses it now WOULD be >producing a hypothetic south pole of exactly the same intensity as the >south pole produced by the permanent magnet in Fig #5. At the same time, >the permanent magnet in Fig #6 would also be shielded by the iron plate >from the hypothetical field produced by the coil and would produce the same >intensity of the south pole as it did before in Fig #5. For best shielding >results a double iron plate (with gap between plates) should be used. We >could say we "split" the original magnetic filed by the iron plate "axe". > >In Fig #7 & #8 we open the coil windings (and dissipate any leftover current >in it into a useful load), which makes the coil behave as if it WASN'T THERE. >This is analogous to annihilating the permanent magnet in Fig #3. Now the >iron plate can move away (under its inertia) from the permanent magnet with 2 >times less back drag than if the coil was left closed. This switching-off of >the coil allows the moving iron plate to escape from the gap with more energy >than it had before. One might say that the switching action introduces >nonconservativness into the system and introduces order into nature. >Order = negentropy = energy > >This cycle can repeat indefinitely (perpetually) if the iron shield is >moving cyclically in a large circular path through the magnet-coil gap just >like in the Ecklin, LIAG, Kromray, Bedini generators. > >The coil should have as little resistance as possible in order to have the >maximum magnetic flux induced in it. It should be switched with low >resistance relay or a MOSFET transistor with very low RdsON (ie. N-ch >MegaFET MOSFETs by Harris semiconductor). The gate of the MOSFET could be >energized by a high resistance, high voltage (not over 20V) coil coaxially >wound with the main coil. No exotic sensors are necessary here since one >can take advantage of the property that the electric current through the >coil moves one way when the iron plate is approaching the gap and OTHER way >when the plate moves away. Yes, a diode could be used but a diode need 0.6 >volts to operate and the low resistance coil (means thick wire, few turns) >will not produce anything close to 0.6V but it will produce many Amps (high >current). > >Strong magnets, small gap, laminated or powdered (to combat eddy currents) >cores and the moving plate would improve efficiency. > >When the coil is said to be closed it doesn't necessarily mean shorted. It >can be connected to a practical load to do useful work. The interesting >property of this system is that the more current you draw from the coil during >the approach phase the more energy you extract and the faster the iron plate >moves (escapes from the gap). The energy in the coil is dissipated either >during the whole approach phase of the iron plate into the gap or after the >coil is open circuited or both. Decaying the current in the coil after the >approach phase takes certain amount of time depending on the resistance of the >coil&load and the inductance. This coil decay time is very short because of the >low coil inductance and high load resistance. If you don't short the coil or >hook up a load to it during the iron plate approach phase the whole thing will >stop working and will behave conventionally. > > Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:44:06 -0800 From: warlord@LocalAccess.com X-Sender: warlord@mail.localaccess.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: LIAG, Ecklin free energy, demystified Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 23:43:59 PSTP+0000 X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"Rryq62.0.aG1.53wjo"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2781 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com The setup you are refering to doesn't use ANY external power supply (unless you consider permanent magnet as such) No, it doesn't take any energy to set up the magnetic field of the electromagnet if a permanent magnet is used to produce the field. No, you don't LOOSE the energy when the coil is opened because the energy can be dissipated in a load as a useful work after the switch is opened OR continuously dissipated in a load during the aprroach of the iron plate into the coil - magnet gap OR both. The energy is not lost (except for parasitic coil resistance), the energy is recollected or shuttled to a useful load for useful purposes. Read the details again and let's hear from you tommorow Extra energy is produced because the approach of the iron plate into the magnet-coil gap induces current in the coil for free. Furthermore this electric current sets up a magnetic field in the coil that oposes the change caused by the shielding effect of the iron plate. This magnetic field adds to the attraction of the iron plate into the gap, for free. After the energy in the coil is dissipated in any way (useful or useless) the coil is rendered inert (by open circuiting) and doesn't oppose the outgoing of the iron plate out of the coil-magnet gap. This further adds to the kinetic energy of the moving iron plate because it is attracted stronger during approach than during departure from the gap. At 08:40 AM 12/17/96 -0800, Michael Shaffer wrote: > >In all this Liang-Edklin discussion you people are forgetting some >fundamentals of electromagnetic energy. > >It takes energy from an external power supply to set up the magnetic field >of the electromagnet, even if this is a superconductor with no resistance. >The external power source supplies additional energy to the electromagnet >when the iron plate is attracted closer to it. You seem not to be >accounting for this energy input in your reasoning. > >When you open the switch, you dissipate the energy remaining in the >electromagnet, as heat and light in the switch. (This may not be apparent >to the casual observer with small electromagnets, but opening a switch in >the circuit of a large electromagnet will splatter lots of molten switch >metal around.) > >So, you put electrical energy in and then lose it. This will not make any >additional energy. > >Michael J. Schaffer >General Atomics, PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA >Tel: 619-455-2841 Fax: 619-455-4156 > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 19 14:26:32 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA20882; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:24:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:24:38 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961219142418.00920eb4@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: Epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:24:19 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: New article about Flux-Gate generator available ! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"AC9mI2.0.365.X2Sko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/894 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I have been pursuing the same subject under a different heading. I am appending the series of my posts at the bottom for your perusal. I would appreciate any reflections. At 10:05 PM 12/19/96 +0100, you wrote: >>Hi Stephan, >> >>I have too many years in induction generator design. Too many people >>think that just because you don't move the magnet/coil somehow >>nature is fooled. The reality is very simple if you realize that >>the moving inductor is still part of the flux path. Look at a LIAG, >>Flux Gate or whatever and you will see that the moving flux element >>is still involved in a classic magent/coil arrangement with a >>complex flux path. The only new item is that the moving flux element >>can only undergo magnetic attraction and would seem to offer overunity >>potential. But consider reality. IF no current flows in the output >>coil, the force of attraction as the moving element moves toward >>the point of max flux will equal the force of attraction as the moving >>element moves away from the point of max flux minus any core losses/ >>magnet B/H curve changes. As current is drawn from the load, things >>change and the moving element is attracted less strongly on approach >>and attracted more strongly on exit. This additional power must be >>supplied from the rotary source and in my experience is ALWAYS more >>that the power supplied via the coil. >> >>Damn.......Mother Nature Wins Again. >> >>-- >>Best Regards, >>Greg Watson, >>Greg Watson Consulting, >>Adelaide, South Australia, >>gwatson@enternet.com.au >> >Dear Greg, here is the answer from my friend Dieter Bauer: > >He thinks that you have not yet read the whole article completely. > >He has worked out the machine and its mathematical equations >directly from the Lenz law !!! and the electrodynamic induction theory >and has put it all into the differential equations ! >So now he can REALLY PREDICT, which parameters have to be altered >to get the right effects. >He says, that you are true with the coil current under certain conditions, >but and that is the BIG NEWS: >We have now the formular to alter all parameters >and calculate the real quantitative results ! > >So, he has CALCULATED the overunity output using his formulars ! > >So if you say, it does not work you have to show, where his formulars >are incorrect ! At least, until nobody can prove his formulars wrong, >mathematically seen it produces overunity with his choosen parameters ! > >If anybody has not got the thread, here again is the URL for the article >which is highly recommend to read: > >www.overunity.de/theory.htm > >Second article on this page about the Ecklin-Bedini-Flux-Gate-Converter ! > >Here is still his German language answer for the German folks out there: > >>Hallo Stefan ! >> >>Ich habe das Gefuehl, dass Greg Watson den Artikel garnicht genau gelesen >>hat, denn das, was er kritisiert - was ich vergessen haette- ist im Ansatz >>der aufgestellten Differentialgleichung alles enthalten. Ich bin ja von >>der Lenz'schen Regel - dem Induktionsgesetz- ausgegangen (!!!) und der >>Strom verhaelt sich ja auch bei mir im grossen und ganzen so wie er sagt >>(nicht ganz so am Punkt des maximalen Flusses, wo der Strom sich umkehren >>muss und weil er dazu Zeit braucht, der sich wendende Spulenstrom waehrend >>eines kleinen Moments das Rausdrehmoment auf den Rotor abschwaecht), >>entscheidend ist jedoch, dass durch die Rechnung man in der Lage ist, all >>diese Dinge quantitativ abzuschaetzen, und man erkennt, welche Groesse man >>aendern muss, damit das gewuenschte Ergebnis rauskommt. >>Daher sollte er - wenn er mich wirklich konstruktiv und immanent >>kritisieren will, eine Gegenrechnung machen und mir im Ansatz oder in der >>Rechnung einen Fehler nachweisen - oder experimentelle Daten vorlegen, die >>meinen Vorhersagen eklatant widersprechen! >> >>Beste Gruesse >> >>Dieter >> > >Best regards, Stefan. >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de >Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de >Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de >My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------- EPITAXY's POSTS ON THE SAME SUBJECT ****************************************************************** >>Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:48:02 -0800 >>X-Sender: Epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com >>Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:47:53 -0800 >>To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>From: Epitaxy >>Subject: Re: Magnetic Shielding - for "dummies" >>X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) >>Resent-Message-ID: <"jqM_Z3.0.YF4.VdWjo"@mx1> >>Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/786 >>X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >> >> >>< View the below drawing with monospaced font and this screen width > >> >> >>MAGNETIC SHIELDING >> >> >> >>For example take two permanent magnets in S-S configuration and iron plate >>like this. (the plate is restricted to move only in vertical direction) >> >> >> LEGEND: NNNNSSSS a permanent magnet with North & South poles >> IIIIIIII a soft iron plate >> CCCCCCCC an electromagnetic coil >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>NNNNSSSS SSSSNNNN >> >> >> I >> I >> I >> I >> I (iron plate attracted up) >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>The iron plate will be pulled into the gap between the magnets like this >> >> >> I >> I >>NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN >> I >> I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>But if the gap between the magnets is LARGER the iron plate will stop here. >> This configuration is not useful for our purposes. >> >> >> >>NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN >> I >> I >> I >> I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>If the magnets are oriented S-N the iron plate will also stop here because >>iron plate is equally attracted to North or South poles: >> >> >> I >> I >>NNNNSSSS I NNNNSSSS >> I >> I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) >> >> >>********************************************************************* >> >> >>If we now consider this sequence of events >> >>_____________________________________________________________________ >> >>Both magnets attract the iron plate into the gap >> >> >>NNNNSSSS SSSSNNNN >> >> >> I >> I >> I >> I >> I (iron plate moving up) >> >>Fig #1 >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> I >> I >>NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN >> I >> I (iron plate moving up) >> >> >> >>Fig #2 >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>One of the magnets is removed or annihilated. >> >> >> I >> I >>NNNNSSSS I >> I >> I (iron plate moving up) >> >> >> >>Fig #3 >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> I >> I >> I >> I >> I (iron plate moving up) >> >>NNNNSSSS >> >>Fig #4 >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>We will notice that the iron plate gains more energy getting pulled between >>the magnets (Fig #1 & #2) then it looses during the back drag (Fig #3 & #4) >>because one of the magnets has been removed. One might immediately say >>here: "...wait a minute you just had to expend energy removing one of the >>magnets..." and you would be correct in the above case. >> >>HOWEVER if we were using a coil instead of the magnet we could turn it off >>(and the magnetic field it produces) without expending any energy >> >>So what exactly happens if we substitute one of the magnets with a coil ? >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>At the beginning (Fig #5) the coil sees the maximum intensity of the south >>pole produced by the permanent magnet. >> >>As the iron plate is pulled into the gap between the permanent magnet and >>the coil, the iron shield starts REDIRECTING more and more of the magnetic >>field (splitting the field) produced by the permanent magnet AWAY from the >>coil. The net result of this is that the coil starts seeing less and less >>of the south pole (which is provided by the permanent magnet). >> >>According to the Lenz law if the circuit of the coil is closed, the coil >>will try to resist this change in the strength of the aforementioned south >>pole by circulating electric current through its windings in such a way >>that the coil will PRODUCE its own south pole in order to keep the >>intensity of the south pole near the coil exactly what it was before the >>iron plate (shield) started moving into the gap. The coil acts as an >>ultimate conservative :-) >> >>This electric current in the coil can be dissipated in a useful load during >>the whole approach phase (or later when the coil is open circuited) >> >>The CRUCIAL effect is that this magnetic south pole created by the coil >>will also attract the iron plate into the gap between the magnet and the >>coil just like it was happening in Fig #1. A south pole is a south pole, >>regardless whether it is produced by a magnet or a coil, right ?. >> >>So the moving iron plate will be attracted into the gap by BOTH the magnet >>and the coil analogously to Fig #1 >> >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>NNNNSSSS CCCCCCCC Coil closed (producing South pole) >> >> >> I >> I >> I >> I >> I (iron plate moving up) >>#5 >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> I >> I >>NNNNSSSS I CCCCCCCC Coil closed (producing South pole) >> I >> I (iron plate moving up) >> >> >> >> >>#6 >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> I >> I >>NNNNSSSS I CCCCCCCC Coil open ( inert ) >> I >> I (iron plate moving up) >> >> >> >> >>#7 >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> I >> I >> I >> I >> I (iron plate moving up) >> >>NNNNSSSS CCCCCCCC Coil open (inert) >>#8 >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>In Fig #6 the iron plate will shield the coil from all of the intensity of >>the south pole created by the permanent magnet and if the closed coil was >>superconductive and didn't have any resistive losses it now WOULD be >>producing a hypothetic south pole of exactly the same intensity as the >>south pole produced by the permanent magnet in Fig #5. At the same time, >>the permanent magnet in Fig #6 would also be shielded by the iron plate >>from the hypothetical field produced by the coil and would produce the same >>intensity of the south pole as it did before in Fig #5. For best shielding >>results a double iron plate (with gap between plates) should be used. We >>could say we "split" the original magnetic filed by the iron plate "axe". >> >>In Fig #7 & #8 we open the coil windings (and dissipate any leftover current >>in it into a useful load), which makes the coil behave as if it WASN'T THERE. >>This is analogous to annihilating the permanent magnet in Fig #3. Now the >>iron plate can move away (under its inertia) from the permanent magnet with 2 >>times less back drag than if the coil was left closed. This switching-off of >>the coil allows the moving iron plate to escape from the gap with more energy >>than it had before. One might say that the switching action introduces >>nonconservativness into the system and introduces order into nature. >>Order = negentropy = energy >> >>This cycle can repeat indefinitely (perpetually) if the iron shield is >>moving cyclically in a large circular path through the magnet-coil gap just >>like in the Ecklin, LIAG, Kromray, Bedini generators. >> >>The coil should have as little resistance as possible in order to have the >>maximum magnetic flux induced in it. It should be switched with low >>resistance relay or a MOSFET transistor with very low RdsON (ie. N-ch >>MegaFET MOSFETs by Harris semiconductor). The gate of the MOSFET could be >>energized by a high resistance, high voltage (not over 20V) coil coaxially >>wound with the main coil. No exotic sensors are necessary here since one >>can take advantage of the property that the electric current through the >>coil moves one way when the iron plate is approaching the gap and OTHER way >>when the plate moves away. Yes, a diode could be used but a diode needs 0.6 >>volts to operate and the low resistance coil (means thick wire, few turns) >>will not produce anything close to 0.6V but it will produce many Amps (high >>current). >> >>Strong magnets, small gap, laminated or powdered (to combat eddy currents) >>cores and the moving plate would improve efficiency. >> >>When the coil is said to be closed it doesn't necessarily mean shorted. It >>can be connected to a practical load to do useful work. The interesting >>property of this system is that the more current you draw from the coil during >>the approach phase the more energy you extract and the faster the iron plate >>moves (escapes from the gap). The energy in the coil is dissipated either >>during the whole approach phase of the iron plate into the gap or after the >>coil is open circuited or both. Decaying the current in the coil after the >>approach phase takes certain amount of time depending on the resistance of >>the coil&load and the inductance. This coil decay time is very short because >>of the low coil inductance and high load resistance. If you don't short the coil or >>hook up a load to it during the iron plate approach phase the whole thing >>will stop working and will behave conventionally. >> >Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:44:06 -0800 >From: warlord@LocalAccess.com >X-Sender: warlord@mail.localaccess.com >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >Subject: RE: LIAG, Ecklin free energy, demystified >Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 23:43:59 PSTP+0000 >X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) >Resent-Message-ID: <"Rryq62.0.aG1.53wjo"@mx1> >Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com >Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2781 >X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com >Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com > > >The setup you are refering to doesn't use ANY external power supply (unless >you consider permanent magnet as such) > >No, it doesn't take any energy to set up the magnetic field of the >electromagnet if a permanent magnet is used to produce the field. > >No, you don't LOOSE the energy when the coil is opened because the energy >can be dissipated in a load as a useful work after the switch is opened OR >continuously dissipated in a load during the aprroach of the iron plate into >the coil - magnet gap OR both. The energy is not lost (except for parasitic >coil resistance), the energy is recollected or shuttled to a useful load for >useful purposes. > > >Extra energy is produced because the approach of the iron plate into the >magnet-coil gap induces current in the coil for free. Furthermore this >electric current sets up a magnetic field in the coil that oposes the change >caused by the shielding effect of the iron plate. This magnetic field adds >to the attraction of the iron plate into the gap, for free. > >After the energy in the coil is dissipated in any way (useful or useless) >the coil is rendered inert (by open circuiting) and doesn't oppose the >outgoing of the iron plate out of the coil-magnet gap. This further adds to >the kinetic energy of the moving iron plate because it is attracted stronger >during approach than during departure from the gap. > > > >At 08:40 AM 12/17/96 -0800, Michael Shaffer wrote: >> >>In all this Liang-Edklin discussion you people are forgetting some >>fundamentals of electromagnetic energy. >> >>It takes energy from an external power supply to set up the magnetic field >>of the electromagnet, even if this is a superconductor with no resistance. >>The external power source supplies additional energy to the electromagnet >>when the iron plate is attracted closer to it. You seem not to be >>accounting for this energy input in your reasoning. >> >>When you open the switch, you dissipate the energy remaining in the >>electromagnet, as heat and light in the switch. (This may not be apparent >>to the casual observer with small electromagnets, but opening a switch in >>the circuit of a large electromagnet will splatter lots of molten switch >>metal around.) >> >>So, you put electrical energy in and then lose it. This will not make any >>additional energy. >> >>Michael J. Schaffer >>General Atomics, PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA >>Tel: 619-455-2841 Fax: 619-455-4156 >> >> >> >In my post the Fig #5 simply depicts a closed circuited coil WITHOUT any >power source hooked up to it. This coil can also be hooked up to a load >instead of being short circuited for the same effect. "Load" is the >opposite to the "power source" and the "Load" dissipates the energy >produced by the coil. In that case it can be said that the coil is >shorted THROUGH the load. > >There was a typo in the LEGEND before: >was - "an electromagnetic..." >should have been "an electromagnetic coil..." > >Could you please reply with the references to the exact places that imply >"Yes" and "No" at the same time. I would like to correct the text so >others do not have to wonder whether I meant "Yes" or "No" > >I respect your skepticism. Please try to find something specific wrong >with my post, I'll appreciate any errors you might find. > >I am including my post at the bottom for your convenience. > > >At 09:33 AM 12/18/96 -0800, you wrote: >>After reading the 'LIAG, Ecklin...' posts, I now confess I don't understand >>what they are talking about. >> >> When you get to Fig. 5: Is the electromagnetic connected to any >>external power source? Some sentences imply, 'Yes,' others imply, 'No." >>Which is it? It MAKES A DIFFERENCE! If there is a supply, tell clearly >>what it is doing and when. >> >>As with all these attempts to exploit magnetism, I remain highly skeptical. >>Is there a working model with no hidden compartments? >> >>Michael J. Schaffer >>General Atomics, PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA >>Tel: 619-455-2841 Fax: 619-455-4156 >> >> >Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 06:46:05 -0800 >X-Sender: Epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com >Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 06:45:30 -0800 >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com >From: Epitaxy >Subject: RE: LIAG, Ecklin free energy, demystified >X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) >Resent-Message-ID: <"2O-NQ3.0.xd1.Z8hjo"@mx1> >Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/794 >X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > >You are correct that the magnetic field from the coil cannot be turned off >instantly because of the L/R relation. > >However in the magnetic shielding system that I have described, the action >of open circuiting the coil is equivalent to raising the R to a very high >value thus decreasing the magnetic field decay around the coil (L/R) to an >extremely short time. The side effect of this action is the production of >short high voltage pulse. Also in practical system the coil is wound with >few turns and thick wire in order to maximize the current and the induced >magnetic field so the inductance (L) is very low further shortening the >magnetic field & electric current decay rate upon opening the coil. > >One might even use a thick copper sheet instead of the multi turn coil >since this sheet will behave as an almost zero inductance, zero resistance, >one turn coil. The problem with this is that the copper sheet cannot be >turned off easily (but it can be physically removed) > >Furthermore in real application the current flowing through the coil during >the iron plate approach phase is constantly dissipated in a useful load and >the coil resistance, further shortening the decay after the coil is opened. > Also the iron plate (shield) has a very real width (I don't mean >thickness) which passes through the gap between the magnet and the coil for >a significant time during which the change in the shielding effect and the >magnetic field change perceived by the coil is much smaller than during the >approach of the plate to the gap. This extra time (caused by the width of >the plate) gives the system more "penalty-free" opportunity to decay the >energy in the coil. > >Another way to look at the "coil decay" issue is to consider this: ...the >current flows one way when the plate is approaching the gap and OTHER way >when the plate is moving out of the gap... Since this current in the coil >reverses direction it must cross zero. It is possible to turn off the coil >at exactly the zero current crossing. > >Also during the time when the plate is in the gap the change in magnetic >field shielding is lower than during the approach of the plate into the gap. > >All of this can be easily seen if you have an oscilloscope, coil, magnet >and iron plate. > >Epitaxy > > >At 02:01 PM 12/16/96 -0800, you wrote: >>Jeff >>I am confused by your turning off the coil. A coil >>has an inductance L and takes about 4*L/R seconds >>to reduce the current throgh it to zero. The >>magnetic field goes to about 5% in this time >>(4 time constants). You need to solve the whole >>dynamics of this electro-magnetic interaction >>with the iron plate to determine what is going on. >> -Hank Scudder >> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 19 17:21:25 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA28755; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:20:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:20:12 -0800 Message-ID: <32B9E920.68FA@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:47:20 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New article about Flux-Gate generator available ! References: <199612192105.WAA10478@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jrtee2.0.A17.AdUko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/895 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Stephan, Thanks for the reply. When do I get a translation of your friend's comments? I have verified my results many times, both by actual construction and by using the Quick Field software. By the way, you should get a copy as this software is GREAT. Best thing I have seen in ages. Makes it real easy to simulate simple and complex magnetic systems. It can be downloaded from shareware.com in 4 parts. Qfld32-1.zip thru qfld32-4.zip. Would suggest your friend gets a copy and tries his theory on Quick Field. The analysis and data it provides are accurate and fantastic. In fact, ANYONE interested in magnetics should get it just to play with. Will answer many peoples questions about magnetics and may assist the level of discussion in this group. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 19 19:20:13 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA22951; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 19:19:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 19:19:27 -0800 Message-ID: <32BA050F.5BC8@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 13:46:31 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Over Unity : What would it be like? References: <199612192105.WAA10478@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HvD7Q.0.Wc5.zMWko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/896 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Stephan, With all the discussion on Over Unity Generators, lets try to define some operational characteristics. May make it easier to catch the beast! Over Unity Variable Reluctance Generator GW1 Description : Input power: 1)Mechanical (rotary). Output power: 1)Unrectified AC. Magnetic flux path items: 1)M Permanent magnet. 2)F Non moving ferrite magnetic flux path. 3)C Coil wound around part of above. 4)F Moving ferrite. 5)G Air gap x 2. FFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFF FFF GGG MMM FFF MMM FFF Max flux MMM FFF MMM FFF FFF GGG FFFFCCCCCFFFF FFFFCCCCCFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFF FFF GGG MMM GGG FFF MMM GGG FFF Min flux MMM GGG FFF MMM GGG FFF FFF GGG FFFFCCCCCFFFF FFFFCCCCCFFFF Basic generator theory: The magnet/coil is stationary and the small moving ferrite is attached to a rotating disc driven by an external rotary power source. As the small ferrite moves in and out of the gap, the flux density seen by the coil will alter from a max with the moving ferrite in the gap to a min with the moving ferrite out of the gap. As the ferrite moves into the gap, system flux will be increasing and as the ferrite moves out of the gap, system flux will be decreasing. This varying flux will induce voltage in the coil The moving ferrite will be attracted into the gap. This attraction is related to the square of the flux density. With the ferrite at min flux, the attraction will be weak and at max flux, very strong. The forces of attraction as the ferrite moves into the gap will equal the forces of attraction as the ferrite moves out of the gap except except for some very small losses in the magnet and the ferrites. Therefore very little energy is needed to drive this arrangement with most losses being frictional and related to rpm. If our generator had only one such arrangement, it would be very hard to move the rotor from the max flux position. A better arrangement would be to have 4 magnet/coils and 5 moving ferrites. This arrangement would almost eliminate any clogging/notch effects and make the rotor easy to turn. If we drive our generator with a DC motor we can measure the power used (voltage * current). If we then place an electrical load on the voltage generated by the coil, we would see our DC motor drawing more power. Why? As the ferrite moves into the gap, flux is increasing and any coil current will flow to oppose this increasing flux. This opposing coil flux will reduce overall system flux and reduce the force of attraction as felt by the moving ferrite. It will have less energy when it comes time to leave the gap than at a no load condition. As the ferrite moves away from the gap, flux is decreasing and any coil current will flow to add to this decreasing flux. This additive coil flux will increase overall system flux and increase the force of attraction felt by the moving ferrite. With less energy stored in the moving ferrite as it approaches the gap and more energy needed as it moves away from the gap, the rotary power source will feel increased resistance to rotation and draw more power from its electrical source. Nothing unknown or unusual here, just not clearly understood. Over Unity Operation: To achieve over unity operation in the above example will require the moving ferrite to feel INCREASED attraction (increasing flux) as it moves into the gap, and REDUCED attraction (decreasing flux) as it moves away from the gap. Assuming we could get just 10-15% over unity operation to overcome frictional losses, we would find that we would not need the driving motor any more. In fact the more output power we used, the faster the generator would turn on its own. It would seem that you don't need to close the loop. An over unity generator would be self powering due to the very nature of the internal forces necessary for its operation. Now all we need do is to find such a beast. Should stand out like a beacon. Comments please. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 20 01:20:00 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA24119; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 01:10:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 01:10:06 -0800 Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:12:04 +0100 Message-Id: <199612200912.KAA12989@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: gwatson@enternet.com.au From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: The KEY to permanent magnet OVERUNITY ! Cc: bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"KR0Vo2.0.mu5.iVbko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/897 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I quote from Dieter Bauer=B4s recent article part3 which can be found at: www.overubity.de/theory.htm 4. The energy balance of the Brown - Ecklin generator Normally, regarding energy balances in electrodynamics every physicist assumes that this problem is solved already in physics by the equation of energy conservation in an electromagnetic field. But if we have a more precise look at the derivation of this equation we recognize that this imagination only holds for the special case if moving charge interacts with moving charge[8]. Now comes the important part: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 But if we have a coupling of the field to permanent spins of a hard ferromagnet (not to a charge) then we have a situation which differs physically completely from the situation described by Maxwell as well as by the theory for special and general relativity which is build around electrodynamics. Then we have to realize that Ampere's idea of molecular currents gets incompatible with reality if we leave magnetostatics. For example a perfectly hard ferromagnet cannot be influenced by a changing B-field - contrary to a current loop in a coil !!! There exists no Lenz Law for spins.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D However the law of induction (i.e. the Lenz law) is used to derive the equation of energy conservation !!! Therefore this equation must FAIL if it is applied to the time dependent coupling of a field to a spin. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Exactly this situation is exploited technologically by Brown's flux switching generator. Therefore we have to look for an energy balance elsewhere.=20 Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 20 01:28:03 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA26445; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 01:27:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 01:27:30 -0800 From: jjn00@aub.edu.lb Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961220092724.002daa84@layla.aub.edu.lb> X-Sender: jjn00@layla.aub.edu.lb X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:27:24 +0200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Downloading Viruses Resent-Message-ID: <"wenQq3.0.0T6.-lbko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/898 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I read the e-mail concerning entitled VIRUS WARNING I would like to have some clarifications about this issue If I am only downloading a file from an e-mail or a web-site without running that file and it happened to contain a virus would it infect my PC I thought of another option but I am not sure of the result. I thought of downloading the file on a disk and running it from the disk. Would it in this case still infect the PC If I have 2 hard disks and I download the virus on one of them (running it) would it infect the other harddisk. In the article Virus Warning it was mentionned that reading a *.doc file on Word will infect all the other files. Well I tried it and all the files remained intact, maybe the virus wasn't active at that time... In what the Word Veiwer would differ from the Word when reading a certain file thank you Joe From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 20 03:10:44 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA00637; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 03:10:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 03:10:10 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 06:09:31 -0500 Message-ID: <961220060930_68555120@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: redorman@plix.com, bshannon@tiac.net cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Re: Charge Blocking Device (Part1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.602.emout12.mail.aol.com.851080170" Resent-Message-ID: <"n3Cvv2.0.q9.GGdko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/899 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.602.emout12.mail.aol.com.851080170 Content-ID: <0_602_851080170@emout12.mail.aol.com.12922> Content-type: text/plain On 19/12/1996 01:25:44, you wrote : << So what's it supposed to do beside warm up R3? --Bob >> Dear Bob, I have sent my personal experimentation of a Charge Blocking Device (CBD) Circuit to kown if anybody have try to build this kind device. I use T.E. Bearden theory which use this kind of circuit to block to current flow thought the collector (Coil). The two MosFet transistors work together : the first (M1) close the circuit on collector, and the second (M2) send command to (M1) to close the circuit when current is detected throught resitance R5. You could verify this with an oscilloscope connected on point V. You see voltage between coil ( Ground and point V) and not or very little current throught resistance R4. If you connect a simple resistance instead of coil, you couldn't see any voltage. I have tried with many differents coils, but unfortunately I couldn't find any overunity in this circuit and resitance R3 isn't warp up...... Could anyone have suggestions about this experience ? Jean-Louis Naudin Email : JNaudin509@aol.com Note :I have attached my CBD V 1.0 (transistors vesrion) ....the result is the same... --PART.BOUNDARY.0.602.emout12.mail.aol.com.851080170 Content-ID: <0_602_851080170@emout12.mail.aol.com.12923> Content-type: image/gif; name="CBDV1.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlh+ALcAYAAAAAAAP///ywAAAAA+ALcAQAC+4SPqcvtD6OctNqLs968+w+G4kiW5omm KhW0QAvH8kzX9o3n+s73/g8MCofEovGITCqXzKbzCY1Kp7yXi4rNarfcrvcLDovH5LIZZw2k z+y2+w2Py+f0uv2YXt/3/L7/DxgoOBiVR3iImKi4yNjoiAej9zhJWWl5iZn5ZKjZ6fkJGioq yDlqeoqaqrpqVMr6ChsrO1vpSnuLm6u7S2bL+wscLDxcFUl8jJysfOu77PwMHd3YLF1tfY3t Rp3N3e393bQNPk5ebj4jfq6+zh6d3g4fL6/7Pm9/jz9an8/f7z9t7J/AgQQT7SuIMKHCMQcX OnwIcVPAiBQrWmTS+/Cixo0c1UzsCDIkyIwiS5rsR/KkypXtUrJ8CfOby5g0a7r7aDOnTm4z d/r8iasn0KFEVQktijSpp6NKmzp9xPSp1KmDolK9itWO1axcu7LZ6jWsWC9gx5o9Wwgn2rVs GaptCzdulrJy69qtQfeu3rt59/qF2/ev4LOBBxv2Wviw4quJFzt22vix5KKRJ1v2WfnyGQU5 JGn+lflzLxmeI5UWnSt0NwQ3Tq9GZ8MAamGqs60pLfuc590eZwOrfU3Sbtc8aQi/cjEBS+DV 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Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:23:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"dQGS73.0.uX.OOdko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/900 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ---------- From: jjn00@aub.edu.lb[SMTP:jjn00@aub.edu.lb] Sent: vrijdag 20 december 1996 10:27 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Downloading Viruses I read the e-mail concerning entitled VIRUS WARNING I would like to have some clarifications about this issue If I am only downloading a file from an e-mail or a web-site without = running that file and it happened to contain a virus would it infect my PC 1) NO but it's still there, ready to run! My solution-->delete the file, = contact the owner I thought of another option but I am not sure of the result. I thought = of downloading the file on a disk and running it from the disk. Would it in this case still infect the PC 2) YES!!!!!!!!! even other PC's if you are using a network, be aware!!! If I have 2 hard disks and I download the virus on one of them (running = it) would it infect the other harddisk. 3) YEP!! you will surely lose that one too if it's a nasty virus, also = see (2) In the article Virus Warning it was mentionned that reading a *.doc file = on Word will infect all the other files. Well I tried it and all the files remained intact, maybe the virus wasn't active at that time... In what the Word Veiwer would differ from the Word when reading a = certain file Microsoft WORD is capable of processing MACRO's which in turn can = run/modify/delete etc... other programs e.g. run visual basic progs. =20 thank you Joe Beware Joe, your internet browser contains JAVA and/or DirectX which can = give possible access to your machine, e.g. DirectX could take control over your mousepointer,keyboard and put different commands in the = message_handler of the program_manager. Java may also do things you don't like. So be sure to ALLWAYS have the = latest version of the browser, because the softwarecompanies don't like this messing-up either. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 20 03:28:53 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA03623; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 03:28:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 03:28:29 -0800 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: Epitaxy@LocalAccess.com Subject: Re: New article about Flux-Gate generator available ! Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 13:09:05 GMT Message-ID: <32bb8ca7.3873146@mail.zip.com.au> References: <3.0.32.19961219142418.00920eb4@mail.localaccess.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19961219142418.00920eb4@mail.localaccess.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99g/16.339 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"Bt2DE3.0.Wu.RXdko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/901 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:24:19 -0800, Epitaxy wrote: [lots of stuff snipped] Epitaxy, _P_L_E_A_S_E_ be a little more selective with=20 your quotings. You are repeating lengthy posts over and over again after we've all seen them. I think you have posted the one large article at least half a dozen times now and,=20 particularly for an e-mail based discussion group, this is a=20 total waste of bandwidth and disk space. If someone has missed the original post for some reason it is always=20 available in the archive Bill maintains. All you need to do is refer to the original post, not repost it every time. _>>>< View the below drawing with monospaced font and this screen width > _>>> _>>> _>>>MAGNETIC SHIELDING _>>> _>>> _>>> _>>>For example take two permanent magnets in S-S configuration and iron = plate _>>>like this. (the plate is restricted to move only in vertical = direction) [etc, etc, for at least the half dozenth time, snipped] =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Quantum Mechanics: The Dreams that Stuff is made of. - Michael Sinz =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 20 03:48:02 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA05150; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 03:47:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 03:47:35 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 06:46:58 -0500 Message-ID: <961220064656_942407964@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Downloading Viruses Resent-Message-ID: <"g0rKm1.0.IG1.Lpdko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/902 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >>>I would like to have some clarifications about this issue>>>> >>>>If I am only downloading a file from an e-mail or a web-site without running that file and it happened to contain a virus would it infect my PC>>>> You have to run the program for the virus to work. (If has to be a program, not just a text or picture file, because in those, no code is run) >>>>I thought of another option but I am not sure of the result. I thought of downloading the file on a disk and running it from the disk. Would it in this case still infect the PC>>>> Yes, some viruses can infrect from disks. >>>>If I have 2 hard disks and I download the virus on one of them (running it) would it infect the other harddisk.>>>> If both hard drives are up and running, they both can be infected. (Liek a dick can infect a hard drive.) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 20 04:08:00 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA06703; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 04:07:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 04:07:34 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 07:06:59 -0500 Message-ID: <961220070658_1590165518@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Quick Field Software Resent-Message-ID: <"s3dJP2.0.de1.46eko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/903 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >From : Jean-Louis Naudin To : Greg Watson, gwatson@enternet.com.au, On 20/12/1996 02:36:47, you wrote : << I have verified my results many times, both by actual construction and by using the Quick Field software. By the way, you should get a copy as this software is GREAT. Best thing I have seen in ages. Makes it real easy to simulate simple and complex magnetic systems. It can be downloaded from shareware.com in 4 parts. Qfld32-1.zip thru qfld32-4.zip. Would suggest your friend gets a copy and tries his theory on Quick Field. The analysis and data it provides are accurate and fantastic. In fact, ANYONE interested in magnetics should get it just to play with. Will answer many peoples questions about magnetics and may assist the level of discussion in this group. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, >> Thank you for this info, I would like to give another path to have a very powerfull software : Its a flow simulator very powerfull to show Electrostatic field and Grad E Field, I have used this software to work on my ELG02 device.....You could find this software in evaluation or demo version at : http://www.dynaflow-inc.com or at : http://www.access.digex.net/~dynaflow/2dflowPlus.exe Speak to tou soon, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 20 05:32:42 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA19120; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 05:32:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 05:32:01 -0800 Message-ID: <32BA95EA.278@plix.com> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 05:34:34 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) Reply-To: redorman@plix.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The KEY to permanent magnet OVERUNITY ! References: <199612200912.KAA12989@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"74DVB1.0.bg4.GLfko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/904 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > = > I quote from Dieter Bauer=B4s recent article part3 which can be found a= t: > = > www.overubity.de/theory.htm >snip = > Now comes the important part: > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > = > But if we have a coupling of the field to permanent spins of a > hard ferromagnet (not to a charge) then we have a situation which diffe= rs > physically completely from the > situation described by Maxwell as well as by the theory for special and= > general relativity which is build around > electrodynamics. Then we have to realize that Ampere's idea of molecula= r > currents gets incompatible with > reality if we leave magnetostatics. For example a perfectly hard ferrom= agnet > cannot be influenced by a changing B-field - contrary to a current loop= in a > coil !!! > snip > Regards, Stefan. > -- > Wow, thanks for the post. Two questions: 1. What is a perfectly hard ferromagnet? 2. I don't see how it cannot be influenced by a changing B-field. Perhaps the semantics of "influenced" are the problem. I presume a mechanical influence of the magnet showing deflection/attraction/ repulsion in a magnetic field. Perhaps you mean that the magnet would not loose or gain magnetism. = It would seem that this theory would also apply to my LIAG device. --Bob From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 20 07:00:58 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA02469; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 07:00:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 07:00:21 -0800 From: RMCarrell@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:59:41 -0500 Message-ID: <961220095941_810787160@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Correa Homepage Resent-Message-ID: <"XSC1o2.0.Tc.2egko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/905 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 96-12-19 15:25:57 EST, Richard Austin wrote: *** Does this mean that the patents do NOT enable one "skilled in the art" to reproduce the machines? What is the nature of the withheld information? *** No, and certain measurements. Dr. Correa tells me that the patents are sufficient to reproduce the devices, and to observe the phenomena, and get o/u performance. The patents are through with respect to input and output test data, and some illustrations of internal performance. There is also an extensive discussion of background theory. What is not in Correa's publications, including the patents, is some of the fruit of his study of the very intense energy bursts within the reactor, which perhaps lead him to further theoretical understandings and applications which do not have patent protection and hence remain proprietary. I haven't followed freenrg-l intensively, but I have the impression that there is within this group a frustration growing out of attempts to understand and replicate a series of legendary machines for which very fragmentary information is available, with some elusive device or secret withheld. I cannot do other than direct you and other readers of freenrg-l to the information sources I cited previously. They demand study. My articles are introductions and overviews. They have been criticized for some errors in Fig. 4 and possibilities of misinterpretation in Fig. 5 of the first article, which were handled in the second article. If you make the effort to study the original sources, you will find a richness of very specific information. I caution any who attempt to replicate the reactors that they have to be built following very good practice. The Correas are very careful workers and have left a trail that must be as carefully followed. Building something "like" the Correa reactors just won't do. Mike Carrell From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 20 09:00:53 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA28883; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 08:59:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 08:59:47 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:58:32 -0500 Message-ID: <961220115825_1653861829@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: sunbrite@mymail.net Subject: ADAMS MOTOR TESTS REPORT (Part 1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.595.emout09.mail.aol.com.851101105" Resent-Message-ID: <"STA5C1.0.B37.1Oiko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/906 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.595.emout09.mail.aol.com.851101105 Content-ID: <0_595_851101105@emout09.mail.aol.com.14865> Content-type: text/plain Dear all, I sent now, some results of my Adams motor experience and I would like to have feed-back and comments to share some ideas..... In previous e-mail : ADAMS MOTOR (PART 1 to 3), I have sent an overview picture, a detailled picture of opto-coupler part for controler, and a schematic diagram of its electronic control board. My Adams Motor specifications : * Version 2.01 : - 4 Ferrite Barium Magnets, weight = 45 g, dim 25x40x10 mm - Rotor diameter 190 mm (this a part of big hard disk spindle drive made with aluminium material and mount with balls bearing) ro=2630 Kg/m3 Inertial momentum with (4 magnets) = 31752 g.cm2 - 4 synchronisation shutters (made with black platic) size = 12 mm width - 2 coils with iron core ( 20 x 20 mm internal section) with 500 turns of 5/10 mm Now, as you had promised, I give you some detail of my tests. I use a PM 3215 2x50 Mhz Philips oscilloscope with 1/10 probes. These probe is connected like this : * The common is connect on Point labeled C on my diagram (see my previos mail). * URLOAD = Voltage mesured throught Resistance Load (Back EMF) : - Probe A is connected to point A and mesure Rload voltage * UCOIL = Voltage between excitation coils - Probe C is connected to point B and measure voltage coils Power input = 11.84 watts with U input 49.10 volts / U motor = 48.8 volts Channel A = 1 v/div Channel B = 2 v/div Time base = 2 ms/div I have attached a GIF picture of my lab's note that represent U Rload and U Coil Signal form on oscilloscope. In this case the power collected is calculate on Back EMF on U RLoad, it is about 2.65 Watts....for 11.84 Watts input..... (to be continued in next messages....) 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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gMWYz.0.oV1.cuiko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/907 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: >It would seem that you don't need to close the loop. An over unity >generator would be self powering due to the very nature of the >internal forces necessary for its operation. >Now all we need do is to find such a beast. Should stand out like a >beacon. >Comments please. I agree completely. Please read the article on the Barkhausen Effect Scalar Detector in Bill's Not Your Average Construction Project area, and let me know your thoughts on the Barkhausen Effect Battery. This devices produces a small, but usable output without any input energy, save a permanent magnet, and has no moving parts. The real question becomes, how to increase the delivered energy? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 20 10:00:25 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA13564; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:59:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:59:39 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:58:24 -0500 Message-ID: <961220125823_1221886411@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: sunbrite@mymail.net Subject: ADAMS MOTOR TESTS REPORT (part 2) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.545.emout15.mail.aol.com.851104703" Resent-Message-ID: <"7UqLf.0.jJ3.9Gjko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/908 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.545.emout15.mail.aol.com.851104703 Content-ID: <0_545_851104703@emout15.mail.aol.com.15057> Content-type: text/plain Dear All, This is the continuation of my previous message, I have attached a GIF picture that represent U Coils and U Rinput ( is voltage mesured on 1 ohm resistance in serie with Adams motor to visualise the current flow in the motor). We could see in URin that we have current flow only during the excitation of the coils. ( we have for Ucoils (2 v/div) and for U Rin (1v/div) ), time base = 2 ms/div ) Activation time = 2.7 ms, Back EMF collected during 15 ms. (to be continued in next messages...) 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<"9Df-g1.0.xd3._Jjko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/909 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.582.emout18.mail.aol.com.851104706 Content-ID: <0_582_851104706@emout18.mail.aol.com.3327> Content-type: text/plain Dear All, This is the continuation of my previous message, I have attached a GIF picture of my lab's notes that represent how to synchronize the position of shutters to optimize the performance of this motor and obtain the max speed. These signal shapes we could see the signal command sent by opto-probe to drive transistors and signal collected throught an open coil. Shutters and Opto-probe must be correctly positionned to obtain this kind of signal. In others tests, I use 4 magnets version and 2 magnets version. With this diameter of main rotor, I have obtained better result with 4 magnets version. I have made experimental measure of mecanical power output with the measure of stop delay. I have obtained with 4 magnets versions ( J= 3.17x10^3 Kg.M^2, Time to stop T = 14 sec, and 95.8 radian/sec ==> Mecanical Power Output 2.08 Watts ) To conclude this report, I can't see in this test any overunity, but it is possible that I had made some mistakes. The only objective of this report is to share my own experience and try to help someone in the great Quest of Overunity machines...... Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin Email : JNaudin509@aol.com --PART.BOUNDARY.0.582.emout18.mail.aol.com.851104706 Content-ID: <0_582_851104706@emout18.mail.aol.com.3328> Content-type: image/gif; name="ADMFIG3.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhVQIvAYAAAAAAAP///ywAAAAAVQIvAQAC+4yPqcvtD6OctNqLs968+w+G4kiW5omm 6sq27gvH8kzX9o3n+s73/g8MCofEovGITCqXzKbzCY1Kp9Sq9YrNarfcrvcLDovH5LL5jE6r 1+y2+w2Py+f0ut0KuOv3/P4j7xcoOBgHAEiImKj4Zbjo+AgpdRhJWWn5M3mpCdO4WZnZYCg6 6llqMUpqmgh6gOr6qhq78IoqG8jq6pBrG5vautvKKwfqCwErrCmqS4sM12lQXHHc7KhsDEy9 1lmrwZyNaD3B/Z3WOM6BTd73fBquTjb9cf5+x34xT+9lbi/vnk9njZW4aP9U7HuBDwTBgm+e CaSwkGEJfiziKfQn+7ENu4ftOGbcEHEFLYwgSX5Es/GiyZMYQhoMaLEbRZZl7KVruZImxJkV bY70+CenTkaTfvKM4HJoUKAoVhplmkCo0i0+ixqVlnRq1KMvB/4MtY+rViw+wT49m3CsArFN oc5C+1VtF35st8L1JpdB3YluO9TKmpcJ3b7XRgZIK5fwiL39FAdOgpGxX8BDHYeQPBnz4yMU NctEPNVzP4VIpW5eQlI0Tmiq/1mWh5Dyac4CW59CYJrm68wu8uSebWSmbay4h6sz3lF2ycPI gdvg2bx08d2uYySkrpc1duc4oG/faRf4d2kIf43nPsN7i6ro15fX3h41x+jX7J6P/L9slgmr 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Message-ID: <32BA945F.7B24@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 13:27:59 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Charge blocking device. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uMIMB3.0.K75.zgjko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/910 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ><< So what's it supposed to do beside warm up R3? > --Bob > >> > >Dear Bob, > >I have sent my personal experimentation of a Charge Blocking Device (CBD) >Circuit to kown if anybody have try to build this kind device. I use T.E. >Bearden theory which use this kind of circuit to block to current flow >thought the collector (Coil). The two MosFet transistors work together : the >first (M1) close the circuit on collector, and the second (M2) send command >to (M1) to close the circuit when current is detected throught resitance R5. >You could verify this with an oscilloscope connected on point V. You see >voltage between coil ( Ground and point V) and not or very little current >throught resistance R4. Ok, I'm not the Bob who wrote the question at the top of the page, but... Using transistors or FET's is not going to work according to an important principal Mr. Bearden expresses in the Towards a New Electromagnetics, Part 3(?) book. Mr. Beardens earlier works (apparently only avaialble in hard copy) differ in several important respects from his latter works, which are often found on the internet. You really need to review the latter stuff in the light of his earlier, and in my opinion more acccurate works. If any vector current flows (which it will, transistors leak, and FET's have a finite RDSoff) then any potential will express itself as a vector, and not as a scalar. Also, non-linearities are important in the translation of vector and scalar expressions of a potential. Both the FET and the transistors are far more non-linear than the coil is. What will this do to the pure potential that we are supposed to be getting from these devices? According to the earlier works, we will translate some of that potential back into EM, and choke off the pure potential. Based on Mr. Beardens own earlier works, the charge blocking device is designed not to work. It's interesting to note that when the theoretical work on the charge blocking design was done, the MRA device was quite popular, and bears a great deal of resemblance to some of the charge blocking designs. But the MRA does not work either. Coincidence maybe? It's hearsay, but I was told that Mr. Bearden was "moved to tears" when he was given a demonstration of a prototype MRA, which was later shown to be far under unity. Before this demonstration, Mr. Bearden had endorsed the MRA in one of his works available on the internet. To seperate vector EM from the pure potential, we need something quite different from a transistor or FET. We must at all times realize that we do not have perfect components in hte real world. In Mr. Beardens earlier works, free potential was collected inside a closed, charged conductor, so that by Lentz's law, no vector existed, only pure potential. To yield a working device, you would have to switch this free potential onto a mass of atoms such that the potnetial raised orbital electrons into higher orbits, then remove the potential keeping them from falling to their rest states. As each orbital electron was allowed to drop, we could collect the exophoton and exoelectron emissions. The atoms would then be ready to repeat this process. Mr. Bearden has suggested that this process plays some role in the Lamb shift effect. So, see if you cannot find a way to switch pure potential without introducing any vector current (however small) to a gas filled tube, such as a Hydrogen Plucker tube, and induce excited states of the hydrogen gas. Remove the pure potential and collect the energy released as the orbitals fall to their rest states. Remember that our components are not perfect! We have to be clever here. Now, if we actually begin extracting electrons (or photons resulatant from the exophoton emission process) we will produce an imballance in the local Dirac sea. Leptons follow a conservation rule such that they ust be created only in particle-antiparticle pairs. (Conventional physics here) For this reason, we might need to have two pure potential seperators, one positive, and the other negitive, such that the effects on the local Dirac sea is ballanced. (speculation) If we did not, we might find a local charge of positrons that would cancel out the electrons produced by the exoelectron emission, and choke off any yeild from the translation process from pure potential to vector EM energy. (theory) Older Bearden and newer Bearden theory can often be shown to have some inconsistancies such as are outlined here. I had heard that Mr. Bearden's work on charge blocking devices, or perhaps relaxation time devices had been throughly reviews in the proceedings of one of the maor conferances, and shown not to be workable. Does anyone have any referances on this, if true? "In theory, there is no differance between theory and practice, but in practice, there is." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 20 10:56:51 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA27569; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:55:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:55:39 -0800 X-Sender: wharton@128.183.251.148 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199612200912.KAA12989@mail.bbtt.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 13:55:23 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Larry Wharton Subject: Re: The KEY to permanent magnet OVERUNITY ! Resent-Message-ID: <"7M0ax.0.ak6.e4kko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/911 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >There exists no Lenz Law for spins. >========================== > >However the law of induction (i.e. the Lenz law) is used to derive the >equation of energy conservation !!! > >Therefore this equation must FAIL if it is applied to the time dependent >coupling of a field to a spin. Sorry, but conservation of energy works just fine for spin. To see this you need to know the equation of motion for a particle with spin. And so this gets you into quantum mechanics since spin is intrinsically a QM effect. The best way to look at this is with the Dirac equation. The stress energy tensor Sab (with the a and b denoting covariant subscripts) for the combined Dirac and electromagnetic field is: Sab = Tab + m P G0 Ga Gb P with Tab the electromagnetic stress energy tensor, m the particle mass, P the Dirac wave function and Ga the dirac matric for index a with G0=G1G2G3G4 . If you like you can work this out and you will see that energy is conserved just fine. Lawrence E. Wharton NASA/GSFC code 913 Greenbelt MD 20771 (301) 286-3486 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 20 14:49:09 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA20174; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 14:48:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 14:48:16 -0800 Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:48:01 -0500 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: richarda@icx.net (Richard Austin) Subject: Re: Correa Homepage Resent-Message-ID: <"FXF16.0.1x4.lUnko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/912 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >In a message dated 96-12-19 15:25:57 EST, Richard Austin wrote: > > > > *** > Does this mean that the patents do NOT enable one "skilled in the art" to > reproduce the machines? What is the nature of the withheld information? > *** >No, and certain measurements. > >Dr. Correa tells me that the patents are sufficient to reproduce the devices, >and to observe the phenomena, and get o/u performance. The patents are >through with respect to input and output test data, and some illustrations of >internal performance. There is also an extensive discussion of background >theory. > >What is not in Correa's publications, including the patents, is some of the >fruit of his study of the very intense energy bursts within the reactor, >which perhaps lead him to further theoretical understandings and applications >which do not have patent protection and hence remain proprietary. > Has anyone replicated his work and built OU machines? Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 20 18:43:38 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA08333; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 18:42:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 18:42:24 -0800 Message-ID: <32BB4DD7.170@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:09:19 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bshannon@tiac.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Over unity: What would it be like. References: <32BA87C3.78F7@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NUb8x3.0.622.Dwqko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/913 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > I agree completely. Please read the article on the Barkhausen Effect > Scalar Detector in Bill's Not Your Average Construction Project area, > and let me know your thoughts on the Barkhausen Effect Battery. > > This devices produces a small, but usable output without any input > energy, save a permanent magnet, and has no moving parts. > > The real question becomes, how to increase the delivered energy? Hi Bob, Am printing your info now. Will give it a look. Have done quite a lot of work on the Barkhausen Effect and magnetic domains, your paper should be good reading. Will get back to you. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 20 18:59:42 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA11284; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 18:58:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 18:58:48 -0800 Message-ID: <32BB51B8.3364@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:25:52 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The KEY to permanent magnet OVERUNITY ! References: <199612200912.KAA12989@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4_8da3.0.yl2.Z9rko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/914 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Exactly this situation is exploited > technologically by Brown's flux switching generator. Therefore we have Hi Stephan, I have read your paper many times and am sad to say that you haven't taken into account the unbalanced forces acting on the moving flux gate. The Brown - Ecklin generator is not over unity. No matter what your maths says, you can't ignore my earlier posting. Over unity may be possible, but NOT with rotating machines. Flux gate machines be they LIAG, Brown-Ecklin, Bedini, Etc or my own attempts obey mother nature's laws just like other generators. Re-read my earlier post and you will see I am right. Been there, done that several years ago. The only difference is that I continued to study the devices and finally understood what mother nature was trying to tell me. And now I have told you. Flux gate machines are not over unity. We all have dreams, but at the end of the day reality must win. I believe magnetic based over unity is possible. Lets define what its operational parameters would be and THEN start the search. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 21 04:03:19 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA12141; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 04:02:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 04:02:55 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 07:02:19 -0500 Message-ID: <961221070218_1456754833@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re: Charge blocking device Resent-Message-ID: <"1fFEK2.0.cz2.k7zko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/915 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >From : Jean-Loauis Naudin To : Bob Shannon On du 20/12/1996 20:01:37, you wrote : << Older Bearden and newer Bearden theory can often be shown to have some inconsistancies such as are outlined here. I had heard that Mr. Bearden's work on charge blocking devices, or perhaps relaxation time devices had been throughly reviews in the proceedings of one of the maor conferances, and shown not to be workable. Does anyone have any referances on this, if true? >> Thanks for your precious informations about Bearden's theory review. I have discovered by this way, the hidden aspects of the problem..... <> I have discovered Bearden's work through the Internet publications and like a jigsaw puzzle, I have assembled all spreaded documents to try to understand his theory. With your informations, Bearden theory seems to me more clear, particularly the strange story of MRA device...... I have sent my CBD diagram, like a message in a bottle, to see if someone had, as myself, to endure initials problems on Bearden theory. I can say now, that the goal of freenrg-list (thanks Billb !!) has been reached. If we could made idea's synergy between countries and researchers like this, we could save research time and money in our quest. Please could you tell me where I could find Bearden publication "Towards a New Electromagnetic" ? Nice to speak with you soon, Jean-Louis Naudin JNaudin509@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 21 04:55:04 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA15835; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 04:54:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 04:54:43 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <961221070218_1456754833@emout09.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sat, 21 Dec 96 15:49:01 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Bearden's concept is not CBD only... Lines: 15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2n4yu2.0.Kt3.Huzko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/916 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I had post corresponding with Dr. Bearden several years ago, after publication his "The last secret of free energy", also published in INTERNET. His papers include many fine ideas and it is non-correct to consider the CBD as a only way for realization of his general concept that opened in his great book "Gravitobiology", published by Tesla Book Co. I can provide Bearden's post address and you can find it in his papers also. His fax is 1-205-5360411. Direct contact with author is the best way. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 21 05:56:05 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA22698; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 05:55:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 05:55:43 -0800 Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 07:54:31 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199612211354.HAA28685@bluestem.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re: Charge blocking device Cc: JNaudin509@aol.com Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"RCfzQ3.0.ZY5.Un-ko"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/917 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > >Please could you tell me where I could find Bearden publication "Towards a >New Electromagnetic" ? > >Nice to speak with you soon, >Jean-Louis Naudin >JNaudin509@aol.com > > Hi Jean, It is available from: Tesla Book Company PO Box 121873 Chula Vista CA 91912 (ph) 1-800-398-2056 They will send you a free catalog of publications if you write or call them on the phone. I am not in any way conected with them except as a happy customer. Zack w9sz@prairienet.org -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 21 08:08:04 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA07561; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 08:07:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 08:07:30 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sat, 21 Dec 96 19:03:15 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Multipolarity Lines: 109 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aKNOm1.0._r1.0j0lo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/918 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Let us open new topic here that is connected with overunity also. ............................................................................. "Multipolar World" Copyright by Alexander V. Frolov St.-Petersburg Russia 1996 There are bipolarity logic "yes/no", binary mathematics "1/0", bipolarity in electricity "+/-", magnetism "N/S"... Bipolarity allow to describe many phenomenons of our physical world but it is black-white description only. Dimensionality of such sort description is linear: observer can use any value between one extreme position and other extreme position. If reality needs in more complex description the observer must to introduce new characteristic that is bipolarity also. For example, current in a wire is described as a function of the density "j" in each point of a wire, i.e. value between maximum "1" and minimum "0". Also it is necessary to define the direction of current, i.e. two possible directions: "+" and "-". More complex real phenomenons require more complex description in result of many bipolarity characteristics those are need for complete description. The same situation is developing as a computer soft that is based on a bipolarity "yes/no" logic. Instead of this way, any human have another way: "images method of a logic". Many solutions of the same task are considered by human mind to find one of the best answer. It is natural method that is more easy and precise than bipolarity method. Just by this way it is possible to find solution of the task in more correct form than it can be made by any modern computer. If reality can be represented by three versions like A, B or C, and bipolarity use only "yes" or "not" notions, for each real situation computer use two versions of answer: A yes/A no, B yes/B no, C yes/C no. So, totally it is necessary 6 versions of answer. Perhaps, in future we'll saw computers are working with multipolar logic algorithm but here I'll develop this idea to show the way for over-unity realization. In rare book by V.Lensky "Base for Many Polarity", Irkutsk 1986, in Russain, it is demonstrated some main principles for understanding of multipolarity. For example, sum of all components of reality is equal to zero: "plus one" and "minus one" equal to zero, and for multipolarity it means: A+B+C=0. Normally, separation of something whole is represented as a separation into two parts. Three-polarity is decomposition of something whole into three parts are equal in all rights and properties. Realization of devices, sure, can be made only on the base of real existing positive and negative electric charges. But spatial superposition or time separation by phase allow to create complex many polarity interactions. Symbol for three-polarity annihilation: A+B+C+(-A)+(-B)+(-C)=0 is well-known Star of David. All components A,B and C are positive, all components -A, -B and -C are negative. This balance is one of possible hidden structure of zero. V.Lensky wrote about some ways for transfer of multipolarity form of interaction from a setup (from superposition of bipolarity elements) to information carrier, like water or wood. For example, photons are moving across a setup, become a "special photons". If it is correct to consider a photon as a local change of properties of a space (ether), so photon after multipolarity area have some special properties of a its structure. There are some notes by Lensky about biological activity of three polarity and it is clear: molecules are superposition of bipolarity charged elements. In bipolarity "cause" and "effect" are closed circuit. For example, in a battery "plus pole" is connected with a "minus pole" across a load and the current is moving in a closed circuit. Coexistence of two opposite three- polarity structures A,B,C and -A,-B,-C allow to create a closed circuits inside of each three-polarity structure (i.e. to powered two loads!) but it is not necessary to make a short connection between both three-polarity structures. In some analogies it can be represented as a "rotation" in A,B,C structure that is coexisting with "rotation" in opposite direction in structure -A,-B,-C. Other way is projection of the system that have a polarity N to the system that have a polarity M. For example, A+B+C=0 (three polarities) and X+Y=0 (two polarities). Each component A,B,C,X,Y is composed of "plus" and "minus" elements, electricity, for example. So, we can write A+B+C=X+Y that allow to make a conclusion: A Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sat, 21 Dec 96 21:22:02 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Reactionless mechanical device Lines: 48 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cG2_z3.0.Pq2.Im2lo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/919 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: There is some analogy for letter "psi", Hebrew seven-candles and some scheme for electrical field force lines that I try to show here: A ============================================ . . . I . . . . I . . . I . . . . I . . . I . . I . . I . . I . . I . I I I I B I In such sort system there is attraction (or repulsion) in one side only and all system must be moving in unidirectional manner. For case of attraction direction is B, for case of repulsion, the direction is A side. The same principle but for mechanics was demonstrated by Mr. Boris Shukalov, 68 years old inventor from Ivanovo, Russia. After 30 years of own research he completed fine theory and 20 devices are demonstrated real reactionless motion (i.e. gravitation) that is created by means of asymmetrical mechanics. I try to find any person or company interested in such sort research. There is a plan to produce several hundreds simple devices for colleges. Devices must be moving on the table in horizontal direction or demonstrate the change of its weight. The question is: Who is interested to spend money for patent pre-history check before we'll make a patent application together with him? Who is interested to make a test of a models we have and to make a project for serial production of it? Who have some business-plan for sale of it? --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 22 09:51:10 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA28192; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 09:48:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 09:48:56 -0800 X-Sender: Byrun_Fox@pop.mindlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 09:49:00 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun Fox) Subject: Re: Reactionless mechanical device Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: <"2iaoP.0.Pu6.6INlo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/920 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Alexander; I am interested in your ideas and have access to public companies and venture capital. Please explain you ideas a little further. Byrun Fox. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 22 13:34:31 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA29226; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 13:32:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 13:32:35 -0800 From: RMCarrell@aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 16:31:54 -0500 Message-ID: <961222163154_1121486248@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Correa Homepage Resent-Message-ID: <"kqRcY1.0.Y87.nZQlo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/921 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 96-12-20 18:05:04 EST, Richard Austin wrote: << Has anyone replicated his work and built OU machines? >> I asked Correa this question directly, and his answer was no, not fully, and not to his knowledge. He states that the directions in the patents are adequate for one "skilled in the art". Several arts are involved, which include a mastery of vacuum technology, etc. Mrs. Correa is, for example, a qualified technical glassbower. Getting a system clean is not nearly as easy as it looks, etc. I have observed the setup (in a garage, no less) of a man who went to some effort to make what he considered a mechanical improvement in the construction of the reactor. It had some interesting features, and he was getting glow discharge columns, but he was using external controls which expressly suppress the PAGD phenomenon as stated in the Correa patents. I pointed this out to him, but 'he wanted to do it his own way', even though it was expressly different from what the patents teach. Mike Carrell From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 22 17:47:59 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA10231; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 17:46:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 17:46:07 -0800 X-Sender: bailey@best.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 17:45:31 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: INE Web Site Updated Dec. 21 Resent-Message-ID: <"CO-wd.0.hV2.SHUlo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/922 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Best wishes to all who believe in a Supreme Being!!! Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, etc., et. al.!!! ------- The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/ ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Date Included Additions, Expansions, or Revisions ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Dec. 21, 1996 Added: NEN TOC Vol. 4, No. 8, December 1996. The Adams & Aspden Motor Patent Review of the Sixth International Conference On Cold Fusion (ICCF6) Fuel For Fraud Or Vice Versa? [on Stanley Meyer] Anomalous Weight Measurements of A Toy Gyroscope Reward For Any 'Free-Energy' Device Passing Test Resonance Effect [from Russia] Added the web site address, file name, and the revision date to the bottom of the most recent and most accessed files. Updated: Websites, Authors, Subjects, Announcements, Commercial Sources and Information Sources pages. Site Counter = 48,942. Dec. 8, 1996 Added: "Inertia Theory - Magic Roundabout - On The Meaning Of Mach's Principle" by Paul Davies. Updated: "The Periodic Production of Rationalized Phenomena and the Past Periodic Depressions" a paper by E. Lewis Websites, Authors, Subjects, Changed: Elektromagnum website addresses in all files: nucleus.ibg.uu.se and nucleus.ibg.uu.se/~david were both replaced with www.newphys.se . Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 22 22:42:50 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA07030; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 22:41:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 22:41:25 -0800 Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 07:44:14 +0100 Message-Id: <199612230644.HAA23125@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Meyer again Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"Wfn2X1.0.jj1.KcYlo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/923 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >To: Vortex > >The heart sinks. It is like reading "O.J. Simpson again." > >- Jed > > I have 2 MPEG movie of his design , demo setup and car buggy at my site at: www.overunity.de/movies/ Look for the meyerX.mpg files ! Check it out for yourself ! Well, unfortunately one can not see, how much energy he puts into the system to generate the gas.... but it seems to work quite well ! Regards, Stefan. > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 23 09:03:30 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA26244; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 09:02:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 09:02:51 -0800 Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 12:02:37 -0500 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: richarda@icx.net (Richard Austin) Subject: Re: Multipolarity Resent-Message-ID: <"9X6at3.0.sP6.uihlo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/924 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Light is a 3 polarity system, red green blue. Ayurveda uses Vata, Pitta, & Kapha Yoga speaks of Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas as the three ultimate constituents or building blocks of the universe. Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 23 21:48:16 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA27714; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 21:47:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 21:47:26 -0800 X-Sender: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 20:47:17 -0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Could somebody criticize this please Resent-Message-ID: <"praCb1.0.xm6.ivslo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/926 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The following are general remarks about Bruce's post below. Sorry it took me so long to get around to reading it. It is very difficult for me to change midset as my memory doesn't work very log. Specific comments are also imbedded in Bruce's post quoted further below. First, this design is difficult to discuss meaningfullly without a quantitative model, and I think that such a model would be more difficult to build and test than a real world model. The most accurate comment I can make is that the only way to find out if the concept is going to work, or lead to a better concept, is to try it. It would be easy to cite conservation of energy and leave it at that, but there is more to this than meets the eye. A very similar device was modelled and tested by Ide [Osamu Ide,"Increased voltage phenomenon in a resonant circuit of unconventional magnetic configuration", J.Appl. Phys. 77(11),1 June 1995.] Ide's configuration was pretty much identical except *both* magnets were electromagnets and their cores and the armature (moving core) were made of ferrite material to avoid inductive losses. Also the armature contained two equivalents of the moving piece of iron (moving cores) and also two pairs of stator coils were used, all 180 degrees apart for symmetry. The stators were pulsed using SRC's prior to the armature entering the gap, and the energy from the coils retrieved and fed to capacitors for firing on the next 180 degree cycle. There was a control circuit that would add current to get the capacitors back up to full voltage before the next cycle. In general most of the arguments below apply to the Ide experiment. Now, what is most interresting is that Ide did do a very careful computer analysis of the motor, and he found anomalous behavior. The true performance did not match the model. It gets better than that. The controller was set up to run the motor in two different configurations. In the first, attracting mode, the two coils were unopposed, i.e. their fields were aligned. In the second test, the opposing mode, the coil polaritites were opposed as designated by Bruce below. The difference between the two modes was merely connecting the coils in series in such a way that the magneitic fields always opposed or aligned. The test data in the first test closely matched the results through a wide range of operating conditions. This gave some confirmation of the data acquisition equipment, and the accuracy of the model geometry and component values. The test data in the second case, opposing mode, showed a clear discrepancy resulting in unexpected efficiency. Ide states: "These results can be explained from the assumption that the complex movement of the flux could generate a positive EMF: the increase in the recharge voltage is due to an EMF in the same direction as the discharge current, different from the current caused by the back EMF caused by Faraday's law. The past controversy concerning electromagnetic induction might shed some light on this viewpoint. On this topic several authors have stated that the motional EMF caused by the cutting of the magnetic flux and the induced EMF caused by Faraday's law were independent phenomena ... It can be postulated that these two types of EMF have contradicting effects within the coil, and that the motional EMF has a positive effect on the recharge voltage over a certain range of core speed. This hypothesis seems consistant with the results, but is also highly speculative." Ide did not make an o-u device, but that does not mean that a good understanding of where conventional theory errs would not yield such a device. Bruce's post follows: >>MAGNETIC SHIELDING >> >> >> >>For example take two permanent magnets in S-S configuration and iron plate >>like this. (the plate is restricted to move only in vertical direction) >> >> >> LEGEND: NNNNSSSS a permanent magnet with North & South poles >> IIIIIIII a soft iron plate >> CCCCCCCC an electromagnetic coil >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>NNNNSSSS SSSSNNNN >> >> >> I >> I >> I >> I >> I (iron plate attracted up) >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>The iron plate will be pulled into the gap between the magnets like this >> >> >> I >> I >>NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN >> I >> I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>But if the gap between the magnets is LARGER the iron plate will stop here. >> This configuration is not useful for our purposes. >> >> >> >>NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN >> I >> I >> I >> I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) >> The above two figures are best represented by the figure above, as the differences are only quantitative. Looking at a vertical line bisecting the above diagram from top to bottom, the magnetic field strength will be exactly zero at some point on the line between the two magnets, with or without the iron plate. The field strength will be maximum at two points on opposite sides of the zero point. The fields at thos points will be facing opposite the zero point. In other words, the two south poles will create a repulsing field that will bend both up and down, producing a south pole in space facing up at the top of the diagram and down at the bottom. The iron plate will be attracted to a point of maximum flux, not the zero point. The iron atoms in the bar will align with the existing field and magify it by reinforcing it, but this produces heat in the bar and impedes forward motion of the bar, even though the bar is attracted towards the gap. The momentum lost to heat will be reflected in a slower speed when the magnet leaves the gap. Bruce's suggestion is to turn off the coil on the right magnet to avoid some of this loss. Ide's idea was to cut off both coils and avoid all the loss upon exit. The coil induction arguments are similar. >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>If the magnets are oriented S-N the iron plate will also stop here because >>iron plate is equally attracted to North or South poles: >> >> >> I >> I >>NNNNSSSS I NNNNSSSS >> I >> I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) >> >> Yes because the magnetic field distribution is not bimodal here - there is a single point of maximum field strength. [snip] I think comments beyond this point would only create confusion, and demonstrate mine with certainty. I would like to add that in my backlog list of 30 some experiments that I would like to do that there are some similar ideas. I think a pendulum may be a very good general purpose way to approach these kinds of experiments. If a pendulum can be made to swing continually (as a perpetuum mobile) then it is easy to adapt the design to a motor. Pendulums have the advantage of an immediate readout of energy - by the pendulum max swing height. They can also be made to have very low friction. The experiments can be done with a single set of components. The most important thing is to have massive lateral pendulum strength though - because big magnets tend to torsion the thing apart or snap the pendulum laterally into a catastophic attraction. Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 24 02:46:27 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA07260; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 02:45:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 02:45:02 -0800 Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 05:44:55 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas Mahanna To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Bruce Perreault's Radiant Device In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_nMCY3.0.Ln1.jGxlo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/927 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Has anyone built one of these? It sounds so interesting. Any luck getting it to work? -Tom From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 24 02:50:18 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA07768; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 02:49:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 02:49:48 -0800 Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 05:49:42 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas Mahanna To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Are you chasing crafts ??? :) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-ZCZd2.0.Hv1.ALxlo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/928 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > brought my old binoculars with one side rigged with a photodiode and > > audio amp, so I can examine modulation in the 60 - 15000 Hz range. Does this guy think up the coolest devices or what? I'm gonna build me one of these. Thanks for my next project, Bill. ;) -Tom From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 24 07:09:44 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA27714; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 21:47:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 21:47:26 -0800 X-Sender: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 20:47:17 -0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Could somebody criticize this please Resent-Message-ID: <"praCb1.0.xm6.ivslo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/926 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The following are general remarks about Bruce's post below. Sorry it took me so long to get around to reading it. It is very difficult for me to change midset as my memory doesn't work very log. Specific comments are also imbedded in Bruce's post quoted further below. First, this design is difficult to discuss meaningfullly without a quantitative model, and I think that such a model would be more difficult to build and test than a real world model. The most accurate comment I can make is that the only way to find out if the concept is going to work, or lead to a better concept, is to try it. It would be easy to cite conservation of energy and leave it at that, but there is more to this than meets the eye. A very similar device was modelled and tested by Ide [Osamu Ide,"Increased voltage phenomenon in a resonant circuit of unconventional magnetic configuration", J.Appl. Phys. 77(11),1 June 1995.] Ide's configuration was pretty much identical except *both* magnets were electromagnets and their cores and the armature (moving core) were made of ferrite material to avoid inductive losses. Also the armature contained two equivalents of the moving piece of iron (moving cores) and also two pairs of stator coils were used, all 180 degrees apart for symmetry. The stators were pulsed using SRC's prior to the armature entering the gap, and the energy from the coils retrieved and fed to capacitors for firing on the next 180 degree cycle. There was a control circuit that would add current to get the capacitors back up to full voltage before the next cycle. In general most of the arguments below apply to the Ide experiment. Now, what is most interresting is that Ide did do a very careful computer analysis of the motor, and he found anomalous behavior. The true performance did not match the model. It gets better than that. The controller was set up to run the motor in two different configurations. In the first, attracting mode, the two coils were unopposed, i.e. their fields were aligned. In the second test, the opposing mode, the coil polaritites were opposed as designated by Bruce below. The difference between the two modes was merely connecting the coils in series in such a way that the magneitic fields always opposed or aligned. The test data in the first test closely matched the results through a wide range of operating conditions. This gave some confirmation of the data acquisition equipment, and the accuracy of the model geometry and component values. The test data in the second case, opposing mode, showed a clear discrepancy resulting in unexpected efficiency. Ide states: "These results can be explained from the assumption that the complex movement of the flux could generate a positive EMF: the increase in the recharge voltage is due to an EMF in the same direction as the discharge current, different from the current caused by the back EMF caused by Faraday's law. The past controversy concerning electromagnetic induction might shed some light on this viewpoint. On this topic several authors have stated that the motional EMF caused by the cutting of the magnetic flux and the induced EMF caused by Faraday's law were independent phenomena ... It can be postulated that these two types of EMF have contradicting effects within the coil, and that the motional EMF has a positive effect on the recharge voltage over a certain range of core speed. This hypothesis seems consistant with the results, but is also highly speculative." Ide did not make an o-u device, but that does not mean that a good understanding of where conventional theory errs would not yield such a device. Bruce's post follows: >>MAGNETIC SHIELDING >> >> >> >>For example take two permanent magnets in S-S configuration and iron plate >>like this. (the plate is restricted to move only in vertical direction) >> >> >> LEGEND: NNNNSSSS a permanent magnet with North & South poles >> IIIIIIII a soft iron plate >> CCCCCCCC an electromagnetic coil >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>NNNNSSSS SSSSNNNN >> >> >> I >> I >> I >> I >> I (iron plate attracted up) >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>The iron plate will be pulled into the gap between the magnets like this >> >> >> I >> I >>NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN >> I >> I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>But if the gap between the magnets is LARGER the iron plate will stop here. >> This configuration is not useful for our purposes. >> >> >> >>NNNNSSSS I SSSSNNNN >> I >> I >> I >> I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) >> The above two figures are best represented by the figure above, as the differences are only quantitative. Looking at a vertical line bisecting the above diagram from top to bottom, the magnetic field strength will be exactly zero at some point on the line between the two magnets, with or without the iron plate. The field strength will be maximum at two points on opposite sides of the zero point. The fields at thos points will be facing opposite the zero point. In other words, the two south poles will create a repulsing field that will bend both up and down, producing a south pole in space facing up at the top of the diagram and down at the bottom. The iron plate will be attracted to a point of maximum flux, not the zero point. The iron atoms in the bar will align with the existing field and magify it by reinforcing it, but this produces heat in the bar and impedes forward motion of the bar, even though the bar is attracted towards the gap. The momentum lost to heat will be reflected in a slower speed when the magnet leaves the gap. Bruce's suggestion is to turn off the coil on the right magnet to avoid some of this loss. Ide's idea was to cut off both coils and avoid all the loss upon exit. The coil induction arguments are similar. >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>If the magnets are oriented S-N the iron plate will also stop here because >>iron plate is equally attracted to North or South poles: >> >> >> I >> I >>NNNNSSSS I NNNNSSSS >> I >> I (iron plate stopped at equilibrium) >> >> Yes because the magnetic field distribution is not bimodal here - there is a single point of maximum field strength. [snip] I think comments beyond this point would only create confusion, and demonstrate mine with certainty. I would like to add that in my backlog list of 30 some experiments that I would like to do that there are some similar ideas. I think a pendulum may be a very good general purpose way to approach these kinds of experiments. If a pendulum can be made to swing continually (as a perpetuum mobile) then it is easy to adapt the design to a motor. Pendulums have the advantage of an immediate readout of energy - by the pendulum max swing height. They can also be made to have very low friction. The experiments can be done with a single set of components. The most important thing is to have massive lateral pendulum strength though - because big magnets tend to torsion the thing apart or snap the pendulum laterally into a catastophic attraction. Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 24 07:53:36 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA15525; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 07:52:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 07:52:19 -0800 Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:52:12 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19961224105210.39ef101e@world.std.com> X-Sender: mica@world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Cold Fusion Times -- Vol 5, No. 1 is out Resent-Message-ID: <"ZW7X8.0.Uo3.nm_lo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/929 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: December 24, 1996 Dear colleagues: Well, it has been five (5) years. Cold Fusion Times vol 5 number 1 is out to the printer, and should be in subscribers hands shortly. As always, the COLD FUSION TIMES continues to present focused hard-core science and engineering issues, with detailed material and nuclear science analysis of developments in the cold fusion field. The color cover page, as always, is available at the COLD FUSION TIMES web site, which is located at http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html Discussions and contents in this issue include the following: - More Quality Confirmations of Cold Fusion - Heat and Helium Measurements in Pd Systems - Anomalous Heat from Loaded Pd Wires - CEREM Confirms F&P BOILOFF EXPT - NAVY Results - Gas Loading - Reports from CHINA, US National Labs, .... - ICCF-6 Reviews - Book & lit. reviews - ICCF-6 (Reviews & Analysis) - Some journals you may have missed - OP-ED Column - Updates on Equipment, Supplies, Consulting Available - Practical Information and Reference Vectors - "What's Happening", "Material Science and Engineering" and more The COLD FUSION TIMES web site is located at http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html and has some science references, URL pointers, on-site papers available, and the covers of past issues, and even a virtual reality site [CFT-VR site] available by browser at the CFT web page. Best wishes. Mitchell Swartz (mica@world.std.com) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 24 12:55:17 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA12250; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:53:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:53:59 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Tue, 24 Dec 96 23:42:46 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Lines: 11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jCX9E.0.I_2.bB4mo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/930 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello! Merry Christmas! Have a nice New Year! Alexander Frolov & Julia Frolov & Sons --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 25 17:01:45 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA06226; Wed, 25 Dec 1996 17:00:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 17:00:53 -0800 Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 15:52:16 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: UFO Binoculars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"TwU413.0.1X1.4vSmo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/932 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Twas the night before christmas, and I couldn't resist typing up the following and adding it to the Weird Science page. Enjoy! .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page UFO SCOPE (c)1996 William Beaty - Binoculars - Small solar cell - Audio amp - Headphones Something I always wondered about regarding UFO sightings. Say its night, and you see a light in the distance behaving oddly, performing manouvers impossible for an aircraft, etc. Is the light amplitude if that object pure and smooth DC? After all, nearly all manmade light sources are modulated as a result of their AC power supplies, so their brightness is vibrating with audio frequency. Connect a solar cell to an audio amplifier, hold it under an incandescent bulb, and you'll hear MMMMMMMMMMMM at 120Hz. So, what sort of vibration might be imposed on those distant lights in the sky, hmm? As a kid with an electronics hobby I once taped a selenium solar cell to the eyepiece of a small 50X telescope, routed it to an audio amp, then pointed it at distant light sources at night while listening to the signal. Incandescent streetlights give a deep hum, their AC light output is a pure 120hz sine wave. Mercury and sodium vapor bulbs are nonlinear, they give a complex 120hz waveform that sounds like WHAANNNNNNNNN. Neon signs sound different, with a squealy high frequency buzz component to their 120hz fundamental. Automobile headlights are DC, so I never tried viewing them. Recently I saw an article by (I think) Don Lancaster which mentioned that headlights are modulated by car vibrations, so I checked it out and yes, car headlights give off a continuous soft gonging sound even on smooth highways. Their filaments vibrate, and different cars give different pitches of "bell" sounds. I put together a better viewer recently. Binoculars provide a "sighting scope" even when one eyepiece is occupied by a photocell. A Seimens BPW34 PIN photodiode an opamp front end gives a bit more gain than my selenium cell. Headphones give much better low frequency response than a speaker. And the whole thing can be battery powered and duct-taped to a set of large-aperature nighttime binoculars. Any light source appearing in the field of view of one side will be heard as optically demodulated audio picked up by the other. 220K _____/\/\/\______ | | BPW34 | |\ | "I to V" Photodiode Front End (+)______|/|_____|___|- \ | |\| | \______|____ __|+ / TL071 | |/ (+)___/\/\/\___|___/\/\/\_ 47K 47K | V If you build a "UFO Scope," definitely make it a point to use it quite a bit before going hunting for "craft." You want to become familiar with the sounds of all conventional light sources, including lamps, headlights, aircraft, fires, and if you manage to crank the gain high enough, the twinkle patterns of various stars. That way you'll be able to point the device at the local version of "Marfa Lights" and either say "yeah, sure, it's just headlights," or possibly "holy ----, aliens modulate their ship lights for voice comm!" So far I've not encountered any mysterious lights. I have found that my single opamp stage doesn't give enough gain to "hear" the dimmer light sources without burying them in noise, so it's time to modify the thing. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 25 17:28:50 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA12156; Wed, 25 Dec 1996 17:28:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 17:28:20 -0800 Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 20:28:16 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas Mahanna To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: UFO Binoculars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"r01gL2.0.rz2.qITmo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/933 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > Twas the night before christmas, and I couldn't resist typing up the > following and adding it to the Weird Science page. Enjoy! > > UFO SCOPE (c)1996 William Beaty Thanks Bill, I'm sure others will appreciate your clever idea. It sparked one or two for me to. How about using one of those solar cigarette lighters as a parabolic dish to collect the light for the sensor. Filters (cellophane) would allow you to selectively listen to particular colors, and polarizers, prisms, etc, would allow you to go wild! All this stuff is cheap and easily attainable. -Tom P.S. Please let me know if this discussion is inappropriate for this group. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 25 19:20:58 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA02467; Wed, 25 Dec 1996 19:20:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 19:20:25 -0800 Message-ID: <32C1FD97.C8E@gorge.net> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 20:22:48 -0800 From: tom@gorge.net (Tom Miller) Reply-To: tom@gorge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: UFO Binoculars References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4Oi7w.0.Oc.txUmo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/934 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: If I remember correctly, a lot ofmilitary equipment, including aircraft, used 400hz DC power. Not for everything, but, if you see/hear a 400hz light it might be C-130! Tom Miller From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 26 06:54:09 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA07802; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 06:53:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 06:53:42 -0800 Message-Id: <199612261453.JAA22515@newman.cris.com> From: "Charles Donaghe" To: , Subject: Re: UFO Binoculars Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 09:51:32 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bGQvT.0.pv1.r5fmo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/935 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: All military aircraft run at 400hz not only that all mash units run at 400hz most all military generators run at 400hz. "The Chuckster" ---------- > From: Tom Miller > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: UFO Binoculars > Date: Wednesday, December 25, 1996 11:22 PM > > If I remember correctly, a lot ofmilitary equipment, > including aircraft, used 400hz DC power. Not for everything, > but, if you see/hear a 400hz light it might be C-130! > > Tom Miller > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 26 13:14:08 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA15571; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 13:13:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 13:13:06 -0800 Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 13:12:50 -0800 Message-Id: <199612262112.NAA15532@mx1.eskimo.com> X-Sender: BUSHI@multinet.nmt.co.il X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: BUSHI@multinet.nmt.co.il (Lev Robert) Subject: Project magnet Resent-Message-ID: <"0450N1.0.Cp3.Xfkmo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/936 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I'm a new comer to your place. Still not to heavy in reaserch but I'm willing to try. Therefore I'm trying to find information to build the Hamel disk (the one in the barrel) If any of you guys can help I will be gratefull. Thanks Robert BUSHILEV From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 27 00:21:34 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA31754; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 00:20:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 00:20:30 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 03:19:53 -0500 Message-ID: <961227031951_1788912413@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Project magnet Resent-Message-ID: <"01CoV3.0.3m7.CRumo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/937 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dans un courrier date du 26/12/1996 22:16:04, vous avez ecrit : << I'm a new comer to your place. Still not to heavy in reaserch but I'm willing to try. Therefore I'm trying to find information to build the Hamel disk (the one in the barrel) If any of you guys can help I will be gratefull. Thanks Robert BUSHILEV >> Hello Robert, You can find some informations (diagrams and pictures) about Magnet Project at : http://www.cascadia-net.com/magnet/ http://www.keelynet.com Have luck in your experiment, Jean-Louis Naudin Email: JNaudin509@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 27 14:04:23 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA17253; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 14:03:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 14:03:00 -0800 From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Charge blocking device. Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 16:57:39 -0500 Reply-To: bpaddock@execpc.com Message-ID: References: <32B84606.39AD@tiac.net> In-Reply-To: <32B84606.39AD@tiac.net> Lines: 212 Resent-Message-ID: <"sFrXk3.0.PD4.JU4no"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/938 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >In my opinion, Mr. Beardens work on charge bocking devices >suffers from major flaw. Readers familiar with Mr. >Bearden's earlier works should notice that something major >is missing from the charge blocking devices as presented by >Mr. Bearden. [snip] >So what happened in between these quite different works of Mr. Bearden? ___________________________________________________________________________ | From : KeelyNet BBS | DataLine : (214) 324-3501 | | Sysop : Jerry W. Decker | Voice : (214) 324-8741 | | Co-Sysop : Ronald Barker | Voice : (214) 242-9346 | | File Name : BRDN180.ASC | Online Date : 05/22/94 | | Contributed by : Jerry Decker | Dir Category : ENERGY | | KeelyNet * PO BOX 1031 * Mesquite, Texas * USA * 75149 | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why has Tom Bearden given up on Phase Conjagation? For many years, Tom Bearden (the "father" of scalar electromagnetics) has been touting "the way" to free energy, anti-gravity, etc. This was through the use of phase conjugate principles. Scalar effects are produced by phase conjugating a wave by 180 degrees to cancel out the energy, yet it produces a "stress wave" that can have physical effects. Many of us who study or research this field have been fans and friends of Bearden and were puzzled by his recent change to the "degenerate conductor" theories as specified in "The Final Secret" documents. How can "potential" ALONE drive circuits which we KNOW require CURRENT? The basic premise of the "Final Secret" rely on the oozing of potential (voltage) from the inside of a conductor to the outside edge. (Is it not intriguing that DePalma and Tewari both tap this central shaft area of stillness for the production of electrons, just as described by Keely, Russell and others???) We know that current only flows over the surface of a conductor, therefore, as the electrons reach the surface, they take a right angle turn and "translate" into CURRENT. Only at that point does the circuit truly DRAW POWER. Bearden says that when you draw a current from a power source that you are actually destroying that source. However, if you draw only potential, then you don't affect the source in such a self-defeating way. A collector (capacitor or inductor) is used to collect and transfer potential from the source....before the collector "fills up" and the potential translates to current, BOTH contacts are switched into a load, where it instantly discharges. The collector is then re-connected to the source until it again recharges and the discharge process into the load repeats. The speed of this transaction determines the total energy supplied to the load. So, if you make it happen fast enough, you will be able to sustain that load. To date, I am not aware of anyone publicly demonstrating or releasing information relating to such a WORKING circuit. The closest person is Lee Trippett with his TOD circuit. It is a current amplifier with very peculiar properties, yet will not sustain a load. A most interesting extension of the TOD circuit is Bert Pool's modification into his "FireFly" circuit that will source up to 6 LEDs (see FireFly on KeelyNet). Although it appears to be running above unity if you rely on digital meters, it really is not. The unique point about the Firefly is that the LED's light AFTER the battery has been switched out of the circuit. Presumably from the motion Page 1 of the electron wave through the wire. If this is so, then perhaps Bearden is really onto something. However, the question is whether current is actually being drawn. From Bert and Norm's description of the experiment, specifically the use of amp meters to monitor the flow of current into the wire in the first place, there is current drawn. But it is a very interesting effect. We are told there was a laser researcher who figured that energy could be extracted from a properly conjugated laser cavity. He succeeded yet before he could make the details of the process known, he was killed by short range shotgun blasts as he left his home. The circumstances indicated silence was the motive for the killing. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- We took Tom Bearden, Ken MacNeill and Bill McMurtry to dinner Friday evening with several others in our group. I mentioned to Tom how several folks had wondered why he had given up on phase conjugation and done this complete shift over to the degenerate conductor idea. Tom says he has in no way given up on phase conjugate theory but that he has gone as far as he could with what materials and research tools he has. So, he decided to put some of his own observations out and those resulted in the Final Secret treatise. The work continues on these two primary fronts (i.e. phase conjugation and degenerate conductors), but with the main focus being on the degenerate conductor approach. According to Tom, there was nothing behind the change, simply that he decided to share an additional approach based on some of his own observations and thoughts. As of now, the next step in his own researches is the borrowing or buying of two Calibration Standard Capacitors. Tom needs this for further work with his recently patent applied for free energy circuit. If he can get them, he thinks it will prove his circuit. So, if you know where he could borrow a couple of these that you can loan out or buy to help out, these things are about $2000 each, he would sure appreciate it. Phase Conjugation is still a very viable approach and one that we here at KeelyNet believe to be right on track ABOVE everything else. This follows the work of Keely and the entire field of music and resonance. By creating interference patterns (constructive or destructive), you can affect energy or mass. The ideal free energy device would use a tuned waveplate or a geometry that produces such a wavefront that it would "interfere" with incoming energies to produce side effects as specified in the NEUTRAL1 Aether Spectrum. Those side effects would be collected or otherwise discharged for practical use. Electricity, light or heat are all quite practical using this down conversion method. That is one of the reasons for our interest in "Magic Squares", because they form the geometries that can act as kaleidoscopic multipliers or dividers of these incoming energies or simply Aether/gravity to keep it simple. Small replicative circuits that produce large quantities of the desired energy. An interesting quote made by John Keely was that a tuning fork or tuned bar will excite another fork/bar of the same frequency. Page 2 So if you place one thousand identically tuned bars in a room, then strike a single bar, all the bars would vibrate and thus produce AUGMENTATION of force! That is what we currently think Barium is doing in the Sweet VTA. That is, it is AUGMENTING FORCE simply from the excitation of a single barium atom! Keely also indicates that in a DIFFERENTIATED MASS (such as a "conditioned" magnet), all of the "knotholes" or nodes of interference are removed. Once this is done, the mass becomes essentially superconducting because of the instant communication of force throughout it's aggregate structure. When that occurs, change of one single molecule will instantly change ALL OTHER MOLECULES of like composition because the aggregrate has been attuned to a harmonious or "differentiated" condition. The point here is that phase conjugation is extremely important to our quest for free energy devices because it defines the practical application of frequency to produce effects. Another interesting point, we were told that Barium Ferrite magnets are no longer available in the U.S. This because the government decided that Barium has toxic affects and is thus not "safe" for the public. Isn't it odd that Barium is also necessary for duplication of the Sweet VTA? Cold fusion also requires an unusual substance in the form of heavy water and shortly after the Pons/Fleischmann release of the details, the largest heavy water manufacturer in the world went "out of business". Correlation here?? At the ISNE conference banquet, a book was shown that was produced by the United States Coast Guard. It was titled "From 2012" or something like that, can't find the note on it. But the title definitely was 2012 and it was published in the last few years by the US Coast Guard. The perspective of the book was FROM the year 2012, describing extant conditions. One whole chapter was devoted to energy generation and it WAS GIVEN THAT ZPE/VACUUM devices would be in global use!! This means the government either HAS the technology or something big is soon to break. The whole impetus of GM and other auto manufacturers towards electric cars is trying to tell us something. So, we need to get this stuff INTO PRACTICAL DEVICES and posted EVERYWHERE in the public domain BEFORE the technology can be monopolized or sealed up through patents by the big conglomerates! Like Dennis Weaver said at the Banquet, Money is like Manure, the higher you pile it, the more it stinks. But if you SPREAD IT AROUND, IT GROWS THINGS! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- KeelyNet (214) 324-3501 is a FREE Alternative Sciences BBS Your file contributions and financial support are much appreciated! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 3 -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.execpc.com/~bpaddock/ or http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 28 00:00:59 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA13199; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 23:58:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 23:58:31 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sat, 28 Dec 96 10:56:38 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Experimental works are connected with Bearden's concept Lines: 56 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Jk9N43.0.7E3.bCDno"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/939 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: PUBLICATION IN RUSSIAN MAGAZINE FOR INVENTORS "IZOBRETATEL I RAZIONALIZATOR" by Avramenko, numbers 5,6 - 1992, number 10-1994, and RUSSIAN PHYSICAL THOUGHT number 2, 1991. Main aspect is so called "Avramenko's plug" - two diodes. VD1 __________I/I_________________ A BI I\I __I__ source of --------I _____ C1 to load alternating I__________I\I______I__________ potential I/I VD2 I made this experiments and my opinion is: it is Tesla's scheme. Very important to make a line AB as a 1/4 of wave-lenght. In that case in a point B there is maximum of change of potential, it is point of maximum of a standing wave. Power from source is not required. Fact:Nikola Tesla in 1893 lectured about high frequency high potential currents in Franklin Institute, Philadelphia, and in National Electric Light Association, St.Lous. He demonstrated motors, lamps, fan units are connected to single wire. He used 20000 V potential and frequency up to 1 íHz. Connection with Bearden's concept is clear: diodes are swithers for alternating potential in point B. Capacitor C1 is charging by means of potential only. There is no conductivity current in AB wire but there is displacement current in this line. Capacitor play a role of "collector" by Bearden. Dr. Avramenko made a blaster from this invention, and overunity system also. Now he is traveling lector. There are schemes to make the same idea (single wire displacement current ---> two wires conductivity current) by means of resonant coils only, without diodes like Tesla made. Also I published in New Energy News, USA, short article about acceleration of iones in electrolyte by means of potential field (conductivity current is equal to zero in a beginning period) and about development of this scheme according to Bearden's concept for "collector" that is activated by potential field only. Any charged particles are activated by external potential field free of power from primary source and their kinetic energy is increasing in the field. Segntoelectrics (piezoelectrics) are deforming (produce mechanical work) in external potential field. All effects above are connected with Bearden's concept to activate "collector" by potential to "desactivate" collector by conductivity current. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 28 08:45:06 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA27148; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 08:42:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 08:42:59 -0800 Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 17:39:51 +0100 Message-Id: <199612281639.RAA00352@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: JNaudin509@aol.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Bedini Motor questions...??? Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, gwatson@enternet.com.au Resent-Message-ID: <"xn9XH3.0.qd6.GuKno"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/940 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jean-Louis Naudin (JNaudin509@aol.com)wrote > >I have tried to build some Bedini's machines (G-Field generator, Adams like >motor, Scalar generator...), but now, i don't find unfortunately any >overunity energy in those machines. Concerning the G-Field generator I have >built the "2.5 Watt R.Cole generator plan's" : > >I have used : > >- Two coils made with 450 turns of 0.35 mm wire (0.01 H inductance). Coils >have 2 cm X 2 cm section and its made with iron rods. >- 4 barrium ferrite magnets, drived by a "Graupner Seed 600/8.4 V motor >model" ( this motor is used on remote control scaled glider plane model, you >can find it in any air scale model shop ). > >You can find this G-field generator plan in Bedini lab's note at : >http://rand.nidlink.com/~john1/motor.html > >The G-Field generator use 2 modes for energy recovery (Voltage mode (VTG in >Bedini's picture) and Current mode (CUR in Bedini's picture)) and we could >collected energy in AC or in DC (through an AC/DC diodes bridge) > >- in Voltage mode (VTG) : The two coils are connected in serial mode (take >care of adding phase voltage). >- in Current mode (CUR) : The two coils are connected in parallel mode (take >care of adding phase current). > >RESULTS : > >G-Field generator turn at 2400 RPM with 24 Watt input ( 8 volts, 3 A DC) >Signal waveforms on scope have the same shape of Bedini's G-Field showed in >picture with frequency of 40 Hz at 2400 RPM. > >AC mode with NO LOAD > In CUR mode : 9.2 Volts RMS output > In VTG mode : 19 Volts RMS output > >AC mode with LOAD ( 5 watt 12 volt lamp ) > In CUR mode : U = 8 volts / I = 0.252 A power output about 3.5 Watt > In VTG mode : U= 11.4 volts / I = 0.31 A power output about 2 Watt > >DC mode with NO LOAD > In CUR mode : U = 15 volts > In VTG mode : U = 29.5 volts > >DC mode with LOAD ( 5 watt 12 volt lamp ) > In CUR mode : U = 8.4 volts / I = 0.25 A power output about 2.1 Watt > In VTG mode : U= 7.1 volts / I = 0.22 A power output about 1.56 Watt > >In my next message, I will attached my G-Field motor picture. > I have some remarks regarding this measurements: The measurements are made with load and without load. I am missing the power data needed to drive the motor with load and without load. The power data of the driving motor given above do not allow to estimate whether there is some hope in this setup . The difference of the power values of the motor with and without load should be compared with the power drawn from the G- field generator. Then it can be ruled out whether internal losses causes the negativ result or whether the result seems to stem from the physics. In addition I have a question: Are the cores of the coils laminated to prevent eddy currents in the iron cores ? According to Brown's observations it should be necessary ! Best regards Dieter Bauer forwarded by harti@harti.de to freenrg-l and vortex-l From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 28 08:45:42 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA27231; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 08:43:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 08:43:20 -0800 Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 17:39:58 +0100 Message-Id: <199612281639.RAA00356@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: wharton@climate.gsfc.nasa.gov From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Energy conservation for spins ?? Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"x33XW.0.Jf6.buKno"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/941 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: There was a very good critics of my Brown-Ecklin article by Lawrence Wharton which points to an open question: > > Sorry, but conservation of energy works just fine for spin. To see this >you need to know the equation of motion for a particle with spin. And so >this gets you into quantum mechanics since spin is intrinsically a QM >effect. The best way to look at this is with the Dirac equation. The >stress energy tensor Sab (with the a and b denoting covariant subscripts) >for the combined Dirac and electromagnetic field is: > > Sab = Tab + m P G0 Ga Gb P > >with Tab the electromagnetic stress energy tensor, m the particle mass, P >the Dirac wave function and Ga the dirac matric for index a with >G0=G1G2G3G4 . If you like you can work this out and you will see that >energy is conserved just fine. > >Lawrence E. Wharton >NASA/GSFC code 913 >Greenbelt MD 20771 >(301) 286-3486 > Being not an expert in quantum mechanics I asked some people whether there exist energy conservation relations for spins and I got no answer. Therefore I am quite pleased to get a reasonable remark now. But as far as I believe to know this formulas of Dirac refer to single electrons, but not to a collective spin system like an ferromagnetic material which is more complicated. I am not able to decide the question now. As far as I know it is the first time that quantum mechanics has to be applied in electromechanical engineering. Normally no engineer dares about that question. But nevermind, the point is an open question and should be solved ! > Please let me know any other comments about it. Best regards Dieter Bauer forwarded by harti@harti.de -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 28 11:31:08 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA01606; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 11:29:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 11:29:09 -0800 Message-ID: <32C575B3.6C07@plix.com> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 11:32:03 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) Reply-To: redorman@plix.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Experimental works are connected with Bearden's concept References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WoO0d3.0.xO.3KNno"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/942 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > > PUBLICATION IN RUSSIAN MAGAZINE FOR INVENTORS "IZOBRETATEL I RAZIONALIZATOR" > by Avramenko, numbers 5,6 - 1992, number 10-1994, and RUSSIAN PHYSICAL THOUGHT > number 2, 1991. > > Main aspect is so called "Avramenko's plug" - two diodes. > > VD1 *I have added load resistance and ground to your circuit.-R.D. > __________I/I________________________________ > A BI I\I __I__ > > > source of --------I _____ C1 load < RL < > alternating I__________I\I______I_________________ > >R2 > potential I/I | < > VD2 > | > < R1 | > | GROUND ----------------------------------------------|--------| > I made this experiments and my opinion is: it is Tesla's scheme. Very important > to make a line AB as a 1/4 of wave-lenght. In that case in a point B there is > maximum of change of potential, it is point of maximum of a standing wave. > snip Does A-B serve as an inductance? Would the inductance of A-B and capacitance of C1 act as a series resonant circuit at the frequency of operation? Firstly, I believe we must show a return path (ground) for the "source of alternating potential." Now, from a strictly classical electrical point of view, it would seem that on the positive swing of the AC at point A, and assuming finite load resistances for RL, R1 and R2, the electric current would flow through VD2 and then split and part go through R1 and return through ground, and the other part go through the C1-RL parallel combination, R2 and return through ground. Therefore, only a fraction of the total current flows through the load RL during this half of the input cycle. Without R1 or R2, there would be NO current flow in the circuit, and without R2 there would be no current flow through RL. Then, when the input swings negative, the current goes through VD1, splits and part goes through the C1-RL parallel combination to the load R1 and returns to ground, and the orther part goes through R2 to ground. Only a fraction of the total current goes through RL at this time, too. As far as Tesla, or anyone else, lighting light bulbs with just one wire, I would explain that since he is using high frequency AC, there is a capacitive return path to ground. That is, there is the hard, hot wire to the bulb from the generator, and then there is the connecting back to ground (and through the ground to the generator's grounded side) through the capacitance that exists between the other side of the bulb and ground. I must be seeing things differently in this circuit than you are, so could you please explain in simple electronic terms, with out any "black magic", how this circuit could possibly transfer any usable power, let alone have over-unity? Thankyou. --Bob From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 28 12:41:50 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA16071; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 12:39:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 12:39:48 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sat, 28 Dec 96 23:37:14 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Answer on Mr. Dorman reply about single wire power transmission experimental FACT Lines: 72 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3FoBv1.0.0x3.IMOno"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/943 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mr. Dorman redorman@plix.com wrote: Re: Experimental works are connected with Bearden's concept Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > > PUBLICATION IN RUSSIAN MAGAZINE FOR INVENTORS "IZOBRETATEL I RAZIONALIZATOR" > by Avramenko, numbers 5,6 - 1992, number 10-1994, and RUSSIAN PHYSICAL THOUGHT > number 2, 1991. > > Main aspect is so called "Avramenko's plug" - two diodes. > > VD1 *I (Mr.Dorman) have added load resistance and ground to your circuit.-R.D. > __________I/I________________________________ > A BI I\I __I__ > > > source of --------I _____ C1 load < RL < > alternating I__________I\I______I_________________ > >R2 > potential I/I | < > VD2 > | > < R1 | > | GROUND ----------------------------------------------|--------| There is a mistake here by Mr. Dorman. RL is load but R2 and R1 is so much that current here is not considered as power source for load. > I made this experiments and my opinion is: it is Tesla's scheme. Very important > to make a line AB as a 1/4 of wave-lenght. In that case in a point B there is > maximum of change of potential, it is point of maximum of a standing wave. > snip < Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 10:19:24 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stefan Hartmann CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Over Unity : What would it be like? References: <199612200635.HAA12502@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nl9Mo3.0.Bz4.xARno"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/944 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stephan, I am constructing a Quick Field model from your Brown generator data. My work so far has only shown normal results. Will make available the models for all to play with. Where did you get the data from the Brown generator? The data shows that each result used an different output load resistor value. This seems strange. It also seems strange that the input motor power was not measured for each output value. I have a lot of trouble accepting this data as real. What do you think? When do I get an English translation of your friend's comments? What do you think of my flux gate generator analysis? Have a good New Year. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 28 17:22:44 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA04090; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 17:22:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 17:22:09 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 16:21:35 -0900 To: redorman@plix.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Experimental works are connected with Bearden's concept Resent-Message-ID: <"cqHdM1.0.p_.-USno"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/945 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:32 AM 12/28/96, Dorman, Robert wrote: [snip] >> VD1 *I have added load > resistance and ground > to your circuit.-R.D. >> __________I/I________________________________ >> A BI I\I __I__ > > >> source of --------I _____ C1 load < RL < >> alternating I__________I\I______I_________________ > >R2 >> potential I/I | < >> VD2 > | >> < R1 | > > | > GROUND ----------------------------------------------|--------| [snip] > >I must be seeing things differently in this circuit than you are, so >could you please explain in simple electronic terms, with out any "black >magic", how this circuit could possibly transfer any usable power, let >alone have over-unity? Thankyou. >--Bob Bob, I think the following may be more explanitory: >> __________I/I________________________________ >> A BI I\I __I__ > | >> source of --------I _____ C1 load < RL | >> alternating I__________I\I______I_________________ > |C2 >> potential I/I | _____ >> VD2 _____ _____ >> _____ | > |C3 | > GROUND ----------------------------------------------|--------| [snip] However, it should be said that capacitance need not involve two plates. The second "plate" can be considered to be a sphere located at infinity, and any condutor will still exhibit capacitance, even if small. For example, a sphere radius d has a capacitance: C = 0.556 d, where C is in micro-microfarads (10^-12 F), d in centimeters Therefore you do not need C2 and C3 to have an energy flow through the plug. Consider the plug and load to each be like a compressed air reservoir, except the air is made up of free electrons in a conductor. They resist compression, but when compressed together, they retain the energy as a potential energy, just like a compressed air reservoir. This does not in itself lead to o-u performance, though, as it takes energy to compress the electrons into the plug, and this energy is typically supplied at A by a secondary coil. Because the distance from the plug to ground is not infinite, C2 and C3 have real values that are significant at high frequencies. Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 29 04:42:36 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA19452; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 04:21:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 04:21:46 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sun, 29 Dec 96 14:29:31 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Re: Experimental works are connected with Bearden's concept Lines: 16 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9MXAp1.0.rl4.O9cno"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/946 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Drs. who reply on my article! At first, in the primapy source that create alternating or pulsed potential in a wire AB, the wattmeter or ampermeter must be installed to be sure that THERE IS NO ANY conductivity current in wire AB and there is no any power expence to produce current in a load RL. Thank you for interest. Welcome to repeat the scheme and to confirm the statements. I used high voltage transformer from TV (3KVolts) and diodes must be 20000 Volts! Why diodes needs high voltage? It is a key. If you'll make it and you'll see that 3000 Volts from transformer produce after diodes 20000 Volts and more, you'll be sure that in this process the "work of output" for electrons is main aspect. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 29 05:39:19 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA23313; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 05:38:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 05:38:46 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 08:37:30 -0500 Message-ID: <961229083729_1855432084@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: harti@bbtt.de, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, harti@harti.de, vortex-l@eskimo.com, gwatson@enternet.com.au Subject: Re : Re: Bedini Motor questions...??? Resent-Message-ID: <"pPnAN.0._h5.aHdno"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/947 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From : Jean-Louis Naudin ( JNaudin509@aol.com ) To : Dieter Bauer On 28/12/1996 17:47:28, You wrote : << I have some remarks regarding this measurements: The measurements are made with load and without load. I am missing the power data needed to drive the motor with load and without load. The power data of the driving motor given above do not allow to estimate whether there is some hope in this setup . The difference of the power values of the motor with and without load should be compared with the power drawn from the G- field generator. Then it can be ruled out whether internal losses causes the negativ result or whether the result seems to stem from the physics. In addition I have a question: Are the cores of the coils laminated to prevent eddy currents in the iron cores ? According to Brown's observations it should be necessary ! Best regards Dieter Bauer forwarded by harti@harti.de to freenrg-l and vortex-l >> Dear Mr Bauer, I give you some complement of informations about my Bedini's G-Field generator tests report ( my mail of 13 dec 96 ) : Motor : model Graupner Speed 600 / 8.4V Nominal voltage : 8.4 V blocking-current drain : 70 A Operating voltage range (direct drive ) : 4.8...9.6 V Operating voltage range (inc.gearbox) : 8.4...16 V No-Load speed 15500 RPM Idle-current drain 1.8 A Current drain at max. efficiency : 11 A Max efficiency (without gearbox) 75% G-FIELD INPUT POWER : with NOLOAD : INPUT = 8.4 V / 2.8 A about 24 watts with LOAD ( lamp 12V/5W ) INPUT = 7.8 V / 3.5 A about 27 watts Notes about coils : Cores of coils are made with 5 irons rods of 4x35 mm each to prevent eddy currents. >RESULTS : > >G-Field generator turn at 2400 RPM with 24 Watt input ( 8 volts, 3 A DC) >Signal waveforms on scope have the same shape of Bedini's G-Field showed in >picture with frequency of 40 Hz at 2400 RPM. > >AC mode with NO LOAD > In CUR mode : 9.2 Volts RMS output > In VTG mode : 19 Volts RMS output > >AC mode with LOAD ( 5 watt 12 volt lamp ) > In CUR mode : U = 8 volts / I = 0.252 A power output about 3.5 Watt > In VTG mode : U= 11.4 volts / I = 0.31 A power output about 2 Watt > >DC mode with NO LOAD > In CUR mode : U = 15 volts > In VTG mode : U = 29.5 volts > >DC mode with LOAD ( 5 watt 12 volt lamp ) > In CUR mode : U = 8.4 volts / I = 0.25 A power output about 2.1 Watt > In VTG mode : U= 7.1 volts / I = 0.22 A power output about 1.56 Watt > Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin Email: JNaudin509@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 29 06:23:01 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA26994; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 06:22:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 06:22:15 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 09:21:39 -0500 Message-ID: <961229092138_1088747384@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: G-Field generator test (informations) Resent-Message-ID: <"HlFzd.0.db6.Lwdno"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/948 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From : Jean-Louis Naudin ( JNaudin509@aol.com ) To : Dieter Bauer On 28/12/1996 17:47:28, You wrote : << I have some remarks regarding this measurements: The measurements are made with load and without load. I am missing the power data needed to drive the motor with load and without load. The power data of the driving motor given above do not allow to estimate whether there is some hope in this setup . The difference of the power values of the motor with and without load should be compared with the power drawn from the G- field generator. Then it can be ruled out whether internal losses causes the negativ result or whether the result seems to stem from the physics. In addition I have a question: Are the cores of the coils laminated to prevent eddy currents in the iron cores ? According to Brown's observations it should be necessary ! Best regards Dieter Bauer forwarded by harti@harti.de to freenrg-l and vortex-l >> Dear Mr Bauer, I give you some complement of informations about my Bedini's G-Field generator tests report ( my mail of 13 dec 96 ) : Motor : model Graupner Speed 600 / 8.4V Nominal voltage : 8.4 V blocking-current drain : 70 A Operating voltage range (direct drive ) : 4.8...9.6 V Operating voltage range (inc.gearbox) : 8.4...16 V No-Load speed 15500 RPM Idle-current drain 1.8 A Current drain at max. efficiency : 11 A Max efficiency (without gearbox) 75% G-FIELD INPUT POWER : with NOLOAD : INPUT = 8.4 V / 2.8 A about 24 watts with LOAD ( lamp 12V/5W ) INPUT = 7.8 V / 3.5 A about 27 watts Notes about coils : Cores of coils are made with 5 irons rods of 4x35 mm each to prevent eddy currents. >RESULTS : > >G-Field generator turn at 2400 RPM with 24 Watt input ( 8 volts, 3 A DC) >Signal waveforms on scope have the same shape of Bedini's G-Field showed in >picture with frequency of 40 Hz at 2400 RPM. > >AC mode with NO LOAD > In CUR mode : 9.2 Volts RMS output > In VTG mode : 19 Volts RMS output > >AC mode with LOAD ( 5 watt 12 volt lamp ) > In CUR mode : U = 8 volts / I = 0.252 A power output about 3.5 Watt > In VTG mode : U= 11.4 volts / I = 0.31 A power output about 2 Watt > >DC mode with NO LOAD > In CUR mode : U = 15 volts > In VTG mode : U = 29.5 volts > >DC mode with LOAD ( 5 watt 12 volt lamp ) > In CUR mode : U = 8.4 volts / I = 0.25 A power output about 2.1 Watt > In VTG mode : U= 7.1 volts / I = 0.22 A power output about 1.56 Watt > Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin Email: JNaudin509@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 29 10:03:24 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA26994; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 06:22:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 06:22:15 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 09:21:39 -0500 Message-ID: <961229092138_1088747384@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: G-Field generator test (informations) Resent-Message-ID: <"HlFzd.0.db6.Lwdno"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/948 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From : Jean-Louis Naudin ( JNaudin509@aol.com ) To : Dieter Bauer On 28/12/1996 17:47:28, You wrote : << I have some remarks regarding this measurements: The measurements are made with load and without load. I am missing the power data needed to drive the motor with load and without load. The power data of the driving motor given above do not allow to estimate whether there is some hope in this setup . The difference of the power values of the motor with and without load should be compared with the power drawn from the G- field generator. Then it can be ruled out whether internal losses causes the negativ result or whether the result seems to stem from the physics. In addition I have a question: Are the cores of the coils laminated to prevent eddy currents in the iron cores ? According to Brown's observations it should be necessary ! Best regards Dieter Bauer forwarded by harti@harti.de to freenrg-l and vortex-l >> Dear Mr Bauer, I give you some complement of informations about my Bedini's G-Field generator tests report ( my mail of 13 dec 96 ) : Motor : model Graupner Speed 600 / 8.4V Nominal voltage : 8.4 V blocking-current drain : 70 A Operating voltage range (direct drive ) : 4.8...9.6 V Operating voltage range (inc.gearbox) : 8.4...16 V No-Load speed 15500 RPM Idle-current drain 1.8 A Current drain at max. efficiency : 11 A Max efficiency (without gearbox) 75% G-FIELD INPUT POWER : with NOLOAD : INPUT = 8.4 V / 2.8 A about 24 watts with LOAD ( lamp 12V/5W ) INPUT = 7.8 V / 3.5 A about 27 watts Notes about coils : Cores of coils are made with 5 irons rods of 4x35 mm each to prevent eddy currents. >RESULTS : > >G-Field generator turn at 2400 RPM with 24 Watt input ( 8 volts, 3 A DC) >Signal waveforms on scope have the same shape of Bedini's G-Field showed in >picture with frequency of 40 Hz at 2400 RPM. > >AC mode with NO LOAD > In CUR mode : 9.2 Volts RMS output > In VTG mode : 19 Volts RMS output > >AC mode with LOAD ( 5 watt 12 volt lamp ) > In CUR mode : U = 8 volts / I = 0.252 A power output about 3.5 Watt > In VTG mode : U= 11.4 volts / I = 0.31 A power output about 2 Watt > >DC mode with NO LOAD > In CUR mode : U = 15 volts > In VTG mode : U = 29.5 volts > >DC mode with LOAD ( 5 watt 12 volt lamp ) > In CUR mode : U = 8.4 volts / I = 0.25 A power output about 2.1 Watt > In VTG mode : U= 7.1 volts / I = 0.22 A power output about 1.56 Watt > Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin Email: JNaudin509@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 29 10:55:44 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA30853; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 10:55:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 10:55:05 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sun, 29 Dec 96 21:52:33 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: answer re H.Heffner reply on single-wire power system Lines: 52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gvYjH1.0.yX7.7whno"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/949 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) wrote Re: Experimental works are connected with Bearden's concept >> __________I/I________________________________ >> A BI I\I __I__ > | >> source of --------I _____ C1 load < RL | >> alternating I__________I\I______I_________________ > |C2 >> potential I/I | _____ >> VD2 _____ _____ >> _____ | > |C3 | > GROUND ----------------------------------------------|--------| [snip] > > >However, it should be said that capacitance need not involve two plates. >The second "plate" can be considered to be a sphere located at infinity, >and any condutor will still exhibit capacitance, even if small. For >example, a sphere radius d has a capacitance: > >C = 0.556 d, where C is in micro-microfarads (10^-12 F), d in centimeters > >Because the distance from the plug to ground is not infinite, C2 and C3 >have real values that are significant at high frequencies. >Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 This is wrong point of view. If instead of C2 and C3 a wires are installed, and the circuit is VD1 __________I/I________________________ A BI I\I __I__ > I source ----------I _____ C1 ______I of wave-length I/I I VD2 I __I__ --- - ground So, in this case there is no any current in RL and connection between RL and grounf (by means of capacitors C2 and C3 or by means of wires) is not the reason for power. Please, look at three elements only VD1, VD2 and C1 to make a conclusion: it is working scheme! Make it, it is best way. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 29 15:10:06 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA16478 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 15:09:56 -0800 Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 15:09:56 -0800 X-Envelope-From: gwatson@enternet.com.au Sun Dec 29 15:09:41 1996 Received: from bukula.enternet.com.au (bukula.enternet.com.au [203.63.18.1]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA16166 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 15:09:36 -0800 Received: from e2a116.enternet.com.au (acc2-ppp29.ade.enternet.com.au [210.8.6.157]) by bukula.enternet.com.au with SMTP id KAA28582 (8.7.6/IDA-1.6); Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:09:01 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <32C6F956.27AD@mail.enternet.com.au> Old-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 09:35:58 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: harti@bbtt.de, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Over Unity : What would it be like? References: <199612200635.HAA12502@mail.bbtt.com> <32C5B204.7E89@mail.enternet.com.au> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4C66590F721E" X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4C66590F721E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Stephan, Here are the flux gate simulation files for Quick Field. Let me know if you have any problems using them. The central rotor can be rotated by the Move command in the Model Menu. 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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"R4b--.0.uz1.szmno"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/950 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > > statements. I used high voltage transformer from TV (3KVolts) and > must be 20000 Volts! Why diodes needs high voltage? It is a key. If Hi Alex, Most TV EHTs I have played with produce in excess of 20Kv, not 3kv. What mfg of 20kv diodes and cap did you use? -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 29 17:05:32 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA12027 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 17:05:27 -0800 Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 17:05:27 -0800 X-Envelope-From: gwatson@enternet.com.au Sun Dec 29 17:05:21 1996 Received: from bukula.enternet.com.au (bukula.enternet.com.au [203.63.18.1]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA11960 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 17:05:15 -0800 Received: from e2a116.enternet.com.au (acc2-ppp29.ade.enternet.com.au [210.8.6.157]) by bukula.enternet.com.au with SMTP id MAA02119 (8.7.6/IDA-1.6); Mon, 30 Dec 1996 12:04:57 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <32C71484.6247@mail.enternet.com.au> Old-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 11:31:56 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: harti@bbtt.de Subject: Quick Field simulation files Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------29D8234351D7" X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------29D8234351D7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Stephan, Here are the flux gate simulation files for Quick Field. Let me know if you have any problems using them. The central rotor can be rotated by the Move command in the Model Menu. 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Frolov" Date: Mon, 30 Dec 96 08:16:18 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Re: Experimental works are connected with Bearden's concept Lines: 9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ttrKq.0.t05.64rno"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/951 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, Greg Watson, Yes, I changed primarry coil in TV transformer to get output about 3KV. Type of diodes and capacitor is russian type: VD KC106A (or KZ106A) letter c(z) is russian letter "ts". Capacitor is K73-13 2200mkF 20KV. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 29 23:34:02 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA05387; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 23:33:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 23:33:20 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 22:33:44 -0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: answer re H.Heffner reply on single-wire power system Resent-Message-ID: <"vUCgu1.0.1K1.-0tno"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/952 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) wrote >Re: Experimental works are connected with Bearden's concept > > >>> __________I/I________________________________ >>> A BI I\I __I__ > | >>> source of --------I _____ C1 load < RL | >>> alternating I__________I\I______I_________________ > |C2 >>> potential I/I | _____ >>> VD2 _____ _____ >>> _____ | >> |C3 | >> GROUND ----------------------------------------------|--------| >[snip] >> >> >>However, it should be said that capacitance need not involve two plates. >>The second "plate" can be considered to be a sphere located at infinity, >>and any condutor will still exhibit capacitance, even if small. For >>example, a sphere radius d has a capacitance: >> >>C = 0.556 d, where C is in micro-microfarads (10^-12 F), d in centimeters >> >>Because the distance from the plug to ground is not infinite, C2 and C3 >>have real values that are significant at high frequencies. >>Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 > >This is wrong point of view. If instead of C2 and C3 a wires are installed, >and the circuit is > > VD1 > __________I/I________________________ > A BI I\I __I__ > I > source ----------I _____ C1 1/4 I__________I\I______I__________>______I > of wave-length I/I I > VD2 I > __I__ > --- > - ground > >So, in this case there is no any current in RL and connection between RL >and grounf (by means of capacitors C2 and C3 or by means of wires) is not >the reason for power. [Snip] > >--- > Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia > Tel:7-812-2747877 This argument does not make sense. The pulses are DC due to the diodes. Using this same erroneous argument you could also say the circuit is: VD1 __________I/I________________________ A BI I\I I > I source ----------I I ______I of wave-length I/I I VD2 I __I__ --- - ground Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 30 05:25:21 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA18452; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 05:24:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 05:24:16 -0800 Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 14:21:09 +0100 Message-Id: <199612301321.OAA06749@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: PMM 1st and 2nd kinds Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"5XlMt.0.9W4._9yno"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/953 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >"The devices made by Takahashi, Griggs, CETI, Mizuno, and >Ohmori worked. I investigated them first hand, reported on them, and as far as >I can determine they work. There is still a new one: The Norwegian Finsrud PM ! Have a look at it also via an MPEG movie: http://www.overunity.de/finsrud.htm A friend of mine has visited it and it really works ! >I think it may be possible to theoretically prove that a PMM of the second >kind can exist. The basic theory is described in my latest paper which I >am in the process of submitting. And yes the cold spot would be readily >apparent. That will make it easy to verify the operation of such a device. Bernhard Schaeffer over here in Berlin, Germany has a measurement setup using 2 gas mixtures which can convert heat on a 100 % conversion process to mechanical energy. No cold pole needed ! This is also in violation to the "second law", which is by the way NO Law but just an "everyday experience"... I hope he will soon publish his results... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 30 05:26:09 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA18565; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 05:24:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 05:24:56 -0800 Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 14:21:07 +0100 Message-Id: <199612301321.OAA06747@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: JNaudin509@aol.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: G-Field generator test (informations) Cc: bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"hHaq3.0.uX4.YAyno"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/954 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >G-FIELD INPUT POWER : > > with NOLOAD : > INPUT = 8.4 V / 2.8 A about 24 watts > > with LOAD ( lamp 12V/5W ) > INPUT = 7.8 V / 3.5 A about 27 watts Wow, that is a very good result ! Only 3 Watts more power in, when the load is applied ! And you also got about 3.5 Watts out in one experiment ! So there is some hope, if you build it much bigger, that the input power to overcome the losses will be much less than the additional output power ! How strong were your magnets ? Did you use Neodymium magnets ? What kind of energy product (BxH) did they have ? How big were the magnets (dimensions) ? Regards, Stefan. >>From : Jean-Louis Naudin ( JNaudin509@aol.com ) >To : Dieter Bauer > >On 28/12/1996 17:47:28, You wrote : > ><< > I have some remarks regarding this measurements: > The measurements are made with load and without load. I am missing the power > > data needed to drive the motor with load and without load. The power data > of the driving motor given above do not allow to estimate whether there is > some hope in this setup . The difference of the power values of the motor > with and without load should be compared with the power drawn from the G- > field generator. Then it can be ruled out whether internal losses causes > the negativ result or whether the result seems to stem from the physics. > > In addition I have a question: Are the cores of the coils laminated to > prevent eddy currents in the iron cores ? According to Brown's > observations it should be necessary ! > > Best regards > > Dieter Bauer > > forwarded by harti@harti.de to freenrg-l and vortex-l > >> > >Dear Mr Bauer, > >I give you some complement of informations about my Bedini's G-Field >generator tests report ( my mail of 13 dec 96 ) : > >Motor : > model Graupner Speed 600 / 8.4V > Nominal voltage : 8.4 V > blocking-current drain : 70 A > Operating voltage range (direct drive ) : 4.8...9.6 V > Operating voltage range (inc.gearbox) : 8.4...16 V > No-Load speed 15500 RPM > Idle-current drain 1.8 A > Current drain at max. efficiency : 11 A > Max efficiency (without gearbox) 75% > >Notes about coils : Cores of coils are made with 5 irons rods of 4x35 mm each >to prevent eddy currents. > >>RESULTS : >> >>G-Field generator turn at 2400 RPM with 24 Watt input ( 8 volts, 3 A DC) >>Signal waveforms on scope have the same shape of Bedini's G-Field showed in >>picture with frequency of 40 Hz at 2400 RPM. >> >>AC mode with NO LOAD >> In CUR mode : 9.2 Volts RMS output >> In VTG mode : 19 Volts RMS output >> >>AC mode with LOAD ( 5 watt 12 volt lamp ) >> In CUR mode : U = 8 volts / I = 0.252 A power output about 3.5 Watt >> In VTG mode : U= 11.4 volts / I = 0.31 A power output about 2 Watt >> >>DC mode with NO LOAD >> In CUR mode : U = 15 volts >> In VTG mode : U = 29.5 volts >> >>DC mode with LOAD ( 5 watt 12 volt lamp ) >> In CUR mode : U = 8.4 volts / I = 0.25 A power output about 2.1 Watt >> In VTG mode : U= 7.1 volts / I = 0.22 A power output about 1.56 Watt >> > >Sincerely, >Jean-Louis Naudin >Email: JNaudin509@aol.com > > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 30 08:35:25 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA19999; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 08:33:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 08:33:51 -0800 Message-ID: <01BBF645.769E9020@lkl235023.gte.net> From: Bryan To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 11:34:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BBF645.76AF5900" Resent-Message-ID: <"OhBA21.0.Gu4.gx-no"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/955 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBF645.76AF5900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I've been working on an idea for a perpetual magnetic motor that = involves 5 magnets (don't know how powerful they'd need to be), and a = light weight rotor. I've seen similar designs, but few involve detailed = specs such as size, magnet type and so forth. 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iMzIjxQ2v+LI6UlIkDRJf6QUeSTJkTzJX7wTldRaGJhsyUgsxpP8xJnEyctySDCsSdLLyZ/kwJ3E Nm0EyqIUqqLMRqNUyqUMyptkyqeEyqiUyqmkyqq0yqvEyqzUyq3kyq70yq8Ey7AUy7Eky7I0y7NE y7R0hQgAADs= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBF645.76AF5900-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 30 10:37:51 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA09953; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:35:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:35:53 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Mon, 30 Dec 96 21:32:34 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Re: answer re H.Heffner reply on single-wire power system Lines: 42 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YU8w6.0.QR2.7k0oo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/956 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Sirs, I have not to say more. Thank you for attention and for interest to this scheme. I have a real great pleasure to read your comments and I made some remarks for me. I hope that research in this aspect would be moving in more easy form. Simple resonant circuit (without VD1 and VD2) is more simple example for the same principle: change of potential in any point of space (of wire) can be used as a power source free of any power input. N.Tesla made it, please, look his patents on resonant electromagnetic transformer. Best respect for All, Remain, Alexander V. Frolov Russian Engineer ............................................................................. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 30 11:56:33 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA28181; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 11:55:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 11:55:10 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 14:54:14 -0500 Message-ID: <961230144956_1009366305@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor Resent-Message-ID: <"OX-yI.0.6u6.Ou1oo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/957 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Any perpetual motion machine that involves permanent magnets will slowly drain the magnet's usfullness. After a while (I don't know how long) the magnets would become non-magnetic. -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 30 17:37:01 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA16766; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 17:26:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 17:26:35 -0800 X-Sender: bailey@best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 17:28:00 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Wanted: Info on the New Earth Resonance Device Resent-Message-ID: <"91zG_3.0.o54.9l6oo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/958 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I want to find out who the primary contact is on this new "over-unity" device: I recently saw a video about it. The device is composed of circular coils of wire, on one planar frame, with one coil inside the other, like two concentric rings, and with the addition a one or more permanent magnets that are inserted into the center (or so?) of the inner coil ring. The device has no internal power source (like batteries, etc.). It is supposedly tuned to the 7.23 Hz Earth's EM field. It is shown in 3 sizes: about 10 inches in diameter, larger, and the largest one was about 18-24 inches in diameter. They are placed flat (parallel to the ground) in the air (on a glass table). When the permanent magnet(s) is/are inserted, the secondary coil registers an output of about 80-100 Volts, on a regular VTVM as seen on the tape. The tape calls this Voltage DC, and also says that it is around 5,000 Hz, which of course does not make sense. The interesting thing is that when the output is connected to a regular lamp light bulb, it lights up just fine - so the promoters say see! It lights a 100 Watt bulb, so the Amperage must be 1 Amp...--> wrong... Anyway, keeping in mind the come-ons... On the tape: The smaller unit lights up one 100 Watt light bulb, and the largest unit lights up ten 100 Watt light bulbs connected in series. And - when the device is operating, they say it has a resistance to any lateral or rotational motion, like a gyroscope has that same resistance to a rotational (only) motion - so - dum de dum dum - there are forces akin to UFO researcher's dreams evidently at work... Also, when the magnet(s) is/are removed, the device does not function as well, and also, when the magnets are in and the device is turned up-side-down, it also does not function as well. Obviously, this device has attracted a lot of attention, and it's applications are far-reaching and numerous, battery-powered cars and lap-tops to name just a few... I have also heard that the inventor has an established lawyer, that they are very stand-off-ish, and that they want A LOT of money up-front (like a ridiculous amount) for this device. So: Two Questions: 1. Who is the primary contact for this device? and 2. Who do we know that can also obtain this same knowledge from other persons, channeled information, or Divine Sources? Please let me know if you have any solid information on this device or its operational physics. All I have is two phone numbers that lead to a dead end. No questions. This is all I know for now. Thanks! Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 30 18:24:58 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA30701; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 18:22:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 18:22:31 -0800 Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 21:22:16 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas Mahanna To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: G-Field generator test (informations) In-Reply-To: <199612301321.OAA06747@atom.bbtt.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_o1U11.0.YV7.aZ7oo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/959 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >G-FIELD INPUT POWER : > > > > with NOLOAD : > > INPUT = 8.4 V / 2.8 A about 24 watts > > > > with LOAD ( lamp 12V/5W ) > > INPUT = 7.8 V / 3.5 A about 27 watts Forgive me for being a stupid newbie, but if you only get 3.5-5 Watts out for 27 Watts in, what are you accomplishing? I have definately missed something... -Tom From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 31 03:24:41 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA29188; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 03:21:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 03:21:49 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 00:45:21 +1100 Message-Id: <199612311345.AAA09486@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor Resent-Message-ID: <"GMxOf3.0.z77.CTFoo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/963 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 11:34 AM 30/12/96 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, I've been working on an idea for a perpetual magnetic motor that involves 5 magnets (don't know how powerful they'd need to be), and a light weight rotor. I've seen similar designs, but few involve detailed specs such as size, magnet type and so forth. Has anybody worked with this design before? > > > >I saw a design like this and have one on my PC disk called encyclopedia of free energy basically it involes four magnets magnets mounted on a cam arrangemet and three magnets mounted on springs at set at the proper angles . I think the design required tandy round magnets. I think the Perigrin design made by Bowmen have a better chance of success A design for this is at my web page http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ if this doesn't work try http://ww2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ I have not made these myself hope this has been of help Geoff Ps the name of the above are probably spelt wrong From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 31 04:20:02 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA25626; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 22:42:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 22:42:25 -0800 Message-ID: <32C8B381.60B1@nuernberg.netsurf.de> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 07:32:33 +0100 From: VirGin X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wanted: Info on the New Earth Resonance Device References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"x8UkV2.0.IG6.GNBoo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/961 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Patrick Bailey wrote: > > I want to find out who the primary contact is on this new "over-unity" device: > > I recently saw a video about it. > What video? I read about something like this earlier this year. I would like to see/get more info... V. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 31 04:48:11 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA25603; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 22:42:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 22:42:19 -0800 Message-ID: <32C8B31A.100A@nuernberg.netsurf.de> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 07:30:50 +0100 From: VirGin X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor References: <961230144956_1009366305@emout14.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5qDSR3.0.yF6.BNBoo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/960 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > > Any perpetual motion machine that involves permanent magnets will slowly > drain the magnet's usfullness. After a while (I don't know how long) the > magnets would become non-magnetic. > -Adam Grossman I think the point here is to use the magnets until they are not useable and then recycle them for use by manufacturers. V. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 31 06:24:36 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA25773; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 22:44:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 22:44:07 -0800 Message-ID: <32C8B4FD.2F79@nuernberg.netsurf.de> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 07:38:53 +0100 From: VirGin X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: G-Field generator test (informations) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cVziv1.0.ZI6.rOBoo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/962 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Thomas Mahanna wrote: > > > >G-FIELD INPUT POWER : > > > > > > with NOLOAD : > > > INPUT = 8.4 V / 2.8 A about 24 watts > > > > > > with LOAD ( lamp 12V/5W ) > > > INPUT = 7.8 V / 3.5 A about 27 watts > > Forgive me for being a stupid newbie, but if you only get 3.5-5 Watts out > for 27 Watts in, what are you accomplishing? I have definately missed > something... > > -Tom Tom Mahanna. I have to say that I am in your boat with you. I looked at some of the information and was unable to determine the benefit... V. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 31 10:31:48 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA32080; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 10:27:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 10:27:20 -0800 Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 10:26:37 -0800 Message-Id: <199612311826.KAA31828@mx1.eskimo.com> X-Sender: BUSHI@multinet.nmt.co.il X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: BUSHI@multinet.nmt.co.il (Lev Robert) Subject: Project magnet Resent-Message-ID: <"R6s9F1.0.gq7.yhLoo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/964 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: =EC=E1 =F8=E5=E1=F8=E8 >Date: 26 Dec 1996 23:19:12 GMT+0200 >Subject: Project magnet > >I'm a new comer to your place. Still not to heavy in reaserch but I'm >willing to try. Therefore I'm trying to find information to build the Hamel >disk (the one in the barrel) If any of you guys can help I will be= gratefull. >Thanks=20 >Robert >BUSHILEV > > > BUSHILEV From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 31 17:12:05 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA02122 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 17:11:58 -0800 Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 17:11:58 -0800 X-Envelope-From: vrlance@downtown.inu.net Tue Dec 31 17:11:54 1996 Received: from mail.inu.net (downtown.inu.net [208.129.164.2]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA02091 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 17:11:52 -0800 Old-Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 17:11:52 -0800 Message-Id: <199701010111.RAA02091@mx1.eskimo.com> Received: from [208.129.164.50] by mail.inu.net (SMTPD32-3.02) id AA9747F00A8; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 19:15:03 -0600 X-Sender: vrlance@mail.inu.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: vrlance@downtown.inu.net (Bob Rutherford) Subject: Re: Wanted: Info on the New Earth Resonance Device X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: >I want to find out who the primary contact is on this new "over-unity" device: > >I recently saw a video about it. > >The device is composed of circular coils of wire, on one planar frame, with >one coil inside the other, like two concentric rings, and with the addition >a one or more permanent magnets that are inserted into the center (or so?) >of the inner coil ring. > >The device has no internal power source (like batteries, etc.). > >It is supposedly tuned to the 7.23 Hz Earth's EM field. > Well judging from experience you'll probably find that the coils are wound in some obscure impossible to duplicate pattern that is key to the device working. Or that the magnets are of peculiar design or have to be processed in some propietary fashion or if all those things are determined and the device can't be duplicated it will be revealed that a radioactive substance or other highly toxic or rare material must be coated or incorporated into the circuit elements or you don't have the right "reality field" to make it work. Hope that answers your questions. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 31 21:18:11 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA09471; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 21:14:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 21:14:49 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 18:38:48 +1100 Message-Id: <199701010738.SAA12979@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Project magnet Resent-Message-ID: <"a1AOM.0.uJ2.8BVoo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/965 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 10:26 AM 31/12/96 -0800, you wrote: >>From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>To: =EC=E1 =F8=E5=E1=F8=E8 >>Date: 26 Dec 1996 23:19:12 GMT+0200 >>Subject: Project magnet >> >>I'm a new comer to your place. Still not to heavy in reaserch but I'm >>willing to try. Therefore I'm trying to find information to build the= Hamel >>disk (the one in the barrel) If any of you guys can help I will be= gratefull. >>Thanks=20 >>Robert >>BUSHILEV >> >> >> >BUSHILEV > > >Look at my web page and choose useful sites there is a link to the project magnet page that may help you http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel Geoff hope this has been of help From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 31 23:30:40 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA30778; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 23:27:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 23:27:38 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 18:25:30 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199701010725.SAA23026@hurricane.netspace.net.au> X-Sender: mathew3@pop.netspace.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Ossie Callanan Subject: Re: Wanted: Info on the New Earth Resonance Device Resent-Message-ID: <"ZXBqq3.0.pW7.e7Xoo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/966 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 05:28 PM 12/30/96 -0800, Pat Bailey wrote: >The tape calls this Voltage DC, and also says that it is around 5,000 Hz, >which of course does not make sense. It would be closer to 6 kHz pulsed DC. Ossie