From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 4 00:38:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA04719; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 00:38:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 00:38:37 -0800 Message-ID: <000e01bf3e32$e4d34080$96d2989e@callaghansystems.demon.co.uk> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: RE FREENRG Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 08:37:53 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Q-R7.0.e91.CCDIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13091 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin Is FREENRG down for you at the moment? Regards Dave Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 4 07:27:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA25572; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 07:27:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 07:27:03 -0800 Message-ID: <001301bf3e6b$adfe2500$a29910cf@drosigno> Reply-To: "David Rosignoli" From: "David Rosignoli" To: References: <000e01bf3e32$e4d34080$96d2989e@callaghansystems.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: RE FREENRG Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 10:24:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZZv2B1.0.SF6.6BJIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13092 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I haven't received anything in days, which is HIGHLY unusual. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Callaghan To: Sent: Saturday, December 04, 1999 3:37 AM Subject: RE FREENRG > Robin > > Is FREENRG down for you at the moment? > > Regards > > Dave Callaghan > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 4 08:31:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA04851; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 08:31:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 08:31:42 -0800 Message-ID: <3849428E.22BD78A8@imaginativa.cl> Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 13:34:22 -0300 From: Felix Meyer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: List is working again References: <383DD772.C8E29499@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8STec3.0.iB1.k7KIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13093 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Freenrg-l is working again. Fine From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 4 09:51:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA26235; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 09:51:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 09:51:42 -0800 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhRdkdNIvYLecNdjRqYD4hpZRyd+nQIUU5OozW2MtOppcKNREBam0xhsLd8= From: B777b77@webtv.net (R B) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 12:51:41 -0500 (EST) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RPM's Flywheel Battery Message-ID: <18126-384954AD-876@storefull-128.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary=WebTV-Mail-23116-489 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"gXRIK.0.lP6.kILIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13094 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --WebTV-Mail-23116-489 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Here is something interesting; --WebTV-Mail-23116-489 X-URL-Title: RPM's Flywheel Battery Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit http://home.earthlink.net/~fradella/homepage.htm --WebTV-Mail-23116-489-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 5 03:15:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA13089; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:15:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:15:23 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <0.281adc90.257ba345@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 06:15:17 EST Subject: ARDA Mk3 :GREAT EVENT !!!, The POB test in a closed run To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 30 Resent-Message-ID: <"AOykQ2.0.QC3.BbaIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13095 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear All, GREAT EVENT - Dec 4th, 1999 - "The Power On Board" test in a closed run : The "Power On Board" test (POB test) in a closed run is a new great step for the ARDA Project. The purpose of this test is to prove that a Biefeld-Brown effect flying wing is able to generate its OWN THRUST with its power supply "on board" and disconnected from the ground. This proves definitely that the ARDA Concept is real and can be applied on a full scale craft. In the previous POB test done on November 27th, 1999, the ARDA Mk3 did run only a half turn successfully during two tests due to the lack of space for a full turn. This new test has been conducted in a wider area (a hangar) which allows a full turn in closed loop without problem. The "Power On Board" test has been done successfully on December 4th, 1999 ( 16h00 )... Two full closed run tests have been done successfully. There is no motor, no moving parts and the fly is done silently. You will all pictures, datas and videos at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/arda3cl1.htm Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm eGroup:http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 5 04:54:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA22970; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 04:54:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 04:54:10 -0800 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: ARDA Mk3 :GREAT EVENT !!!, The POB test in a closed run Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:03:30 -0500 Message-ID: <19991205130330062.AAA230@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"WwQgI3.0.pc5.o1cIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13096 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jean-Luis writes: >Dear All, > >GREAT EVENT - Dec 4th, 1999 - "The Power On Board" test in a closed run : That's a beautiful sight, Jean-Luis! Congratulations, and I look forward to seeing the next version. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 5 05:50:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA31457; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 05:50:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 05:50:04 -0800 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Time displacement Message-Id: <944401723.4779.147@excite.com> Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 05:48:43 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.205.186.222 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"tZtbJ.0.Qh7.CscIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13097 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all; Thought I would break the boredom with the following relevation. I have been in loose contact with some on the list in which they will recieve the evidence I have of this. thus only > the coils inputs are 180 phased to produce this > magnetic agreement. Instead > of the flux lines having to displace space to get from > point a back to pt a > in the oscillation, they displace time instead. The > time displacement > produces flux change at right angles to the ordinary > flux caused by spatial > flux change, in which the sensor can pick up either > wave, depending on its > orientation in space. Most areas of the space in the > room recieve greater > energy from the time displacement. The time > displacement causes free energy > to appear in our universe. The reason for a free energy hypothesis is the input energy required for production of those magnetic fields. The output portion of that process by transformation has not been tested, and may in fact be impossible to harness, however the issue at hand is not whether it can be utilized, but what the energy input to create the process was. This is a list where those considerations become relevant, and detractors of the fact will always say: "Well what good is it, if we cant turn the equation around and make more energy come out of the process than was inputed?" The good of it is we are all in a learning process, if we have to grasp at a straw to achieve something the laws of physics says is impossible, at least we can have some evidence in favor of a free energy possibility. And the possibility of harnessing it is not closed either. I am stating here categorically that I have succeded in doing it. However the real problem is that the circuit is highly temperamental, and the jump in time is unproven and people will remain unconvinced until more energy is taken out than inputed. However production of time reversed magnetic fields is not only theorized, it is practically proven as a fact in optics; > Western scientists discovered time-reversed EM > (electro-magnetic) waves in > the available Soviet nonlinear optics literature in the > early 1970's. Prior > to that time, no one in the West suspected that > macroscopic, extensive time- > reversed waves could easily be made and utilized. > http://www.keelynet.com/biology/betar.htm > cited entry on Keelynet from Peter Kelly One of the strangest paradoxes of all is that when these time reversed fields are recorded by observation on an oscilloscope, after a certain time frame of observing them by the frequency response setting of the scope is passed, they disapear! This has to do with the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, in my opinion. Either that or a) my scope is malfunctioning b) I misunderstand the functions of the scope and have made tremendous errors, or c) I am actually an agent of the CIA spreading disinformation Now we can all use a little humour now and then, but actually Jerry Decker made a good post on the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle lately under Paucity of Free Energy Claims. Doesnt have that much to do with this subject, but at the same time I was making a post on this subject on a dead freenrg list he made his. I like Jerry's writing style: maybe I am even jealous of his stature, but we dont always see eye to eye. No need to go off subject here. Today I made the energy input measurements of this circuit by analogue meter: these are recorded under Re: Neon Bulb Groundings at http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 One will have to wade through my historical entries to get there so I have added this extract of John Kooimans observations under Re: Even another letter and URL's on the way because of the relevance of that post to what is being said here; Wheeler and Feynman knew that Maxwell's equations are themselves completely symmetric as far as time is concerned. When you solve the equations to describe the way a wave propagates, you always get two answers, one corresponding to a wave moving forward in time and the other a wave moving backwards in time... Waves moving outwards from an electron, or a radio antenna, are called 'retarded waves' because they arrive somewhere after they have been emitted. Waves traveling backwards in time are called 'advanced' waves, because they arrive somewhere before they have been emitted... (my commentary)- this is precisely the evidence my oscilloscope readings seem to show. The time frame as referenced by the phase position of the low frequency sweep on the x axis can change after the high frequency event takes place. What I theorize is that the time jump occurs to one of the next times when the field lines occupy the same space. Normally this jump occurs to the mirror image field line of opposite polarity, but misfires often happen where this jumps to the time when the field lines occupy the same space in the same polarity, which does occur twice per half cycle.This disturbs everything and accomplishes a phase shift. This causes the wave form to be skipping all over the place with respect to its actual position of phase on the x axis. This is observed at 60 hz, meaning a significant time dilation effect. When every thing is stable on the time frame, this misfiring does not occur and the flux lines magically shift in time to the opposite polarity. Then the oscilloscope records two high frequency events per cycle,stable on the time frame, instead of 3 or 4 per cycle. It seems significant that the scope seems to verify the theory where one can witness very significant phase shifting when these time misfires occur. This is also postulated as the reason for the scalar 180 signal blinking on and off. Already guilty of making too long of post. If readers dont understand by now what circuit I used I will end by asking them to go back to Keelynet and look under author file under Harvey Norris to "Phase Conjugation Circuit?" I also made an erroneous conclusion there, can anyone see it? The mistakes one makes leads one to the truth, thats how I got there, by trial and error. Sincerely sorry for long post, HDN ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 5 06:26:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA04484; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 06:26:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 06:26:17 -0800 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Aurora Project Message-Id: <944403694.3570.36@excite.com> Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 06:21:34 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.205.186.222 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"0hga03.0.u51.9OdIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13098 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vapor trail from non existant military jet (Aurora Project) http://earthstation1.simplenet.com/aircraft/military/aurora.jpg ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 5 07:02:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA12844; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 07:02:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 07:02:18 -0800 Message-ID: <001901bf3f31$7b02ed40$b35895d1@premio> Reply-To: "Gene Marlin" From: "Gene Marlin" To: Subject: Long-Delayed Echoes Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 09:00:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"aYFxq1.0.b83.wvdIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13099 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wanted to get comments on my site, the Bootes Project. We are interested in studying long-delayed radio echoes, with emphasis on the cosmic repeater hypothesis. That is, we are searching for alien devices in the Earth-Moon system, and intending to use amateur radio as the method. We're also collecting LDE reports Let me know what you think. http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9146 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 5 08:23:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA01137; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:23:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:23:00 -0800 X-Sender: harti@mail.harti.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: First working magnet motor GIFs ! Cc: newman-l@emachine.com Message-Id: Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 17:22:54 +0100 Resent-Message-ID: <"efzqC.0.fH.a5fIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13100 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have converted Helmut Goebkes DXF Files to GIF format and have placed them here : http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot1.gif http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot2.gif http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot3.gif Please get them and have a look at it. This is pretty easy to build. Many thanks to Helmut to make this available ! Best regards, Stefan. >Hi manfred > >no - it is ok and a good service that you converted the >fles for the others. >Sorry that i uploaded the files in DXF-format, >but as i stated, i am currently unter time pressure. > >Thank you for your help. > >Helmut > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Manfred Boeller [mailto:mboeller@mail.teleconsult.de] >Sent: Saturday, December 04, 1999 10:42 PM >To: jlnlabs@egroups.com >Subject: [jlnlabs] Re: Gradient Magnetic Field Principle > > >Dear Mr. Goebkes, > >Thanks for the graphics. Well it took me some time >to view them, but finally with Star-Office 4.0 I was able to >view the *.dxf - file-format. > >For all the other's I have included the graphics in >Word95 - Format. I hope this works. > >greetings > >Manfred > >PS.: I hope You do not have something against this? > >---------- >> Von: Helmut Goebkes >> An: jlnlabs@egroups.com >> Cc: hart-@harti.com >> Betreff: [jlnlabs] Gradient Magnetic Field Principle >> Datum: Samstag, 4. Dezember 1999 18:37 >> >> Hi Butch, Stefan, Dave >> Hi to all >> >> Butch you are nearly on it! >> >> You found nearly the principle wich my gradient magnetic motor work with. >> The moving magnets in your drawing relates to my mags on the rotor >diameter, >> the iron bar and the magnets is the stator. But your drawing contains >some >> errors and disatvantages. I understand your idea behind your drawing and >> i only can say you are absolutely on the right way. >> Your draing relates to my new design, wich uses two rotors, >> but my magnets are on both rotors at the same polarity >> (for several reasons, explanations coming soon..) >> Stefan was absolutely right, you have to "hide" the magnet >> behind the iron bar to compress the flux and make the >> repelling action not so hard. (ideally it compensates to neutral) >> Make a simple experiment, and you will find the simple key: >> >> (see enclosed sketches for explanation.) >> >> Take a soft iron bar (or better amourphous material) >> and stick a Magnet on the end of one flat side. >> Make an adjustable airgap in between to adjust field strength. >> Now, with a second magnet (of similar strength) directed in repelling, >> check whats happend if you move along the bar on the other side. >> The result will depend on material, size and some other things, but if >> all parameters are correct, you will find exotic behaviour: >> A magnetic Mono-Pole or better said, a device wich produces >> in conjunction with the moving magnet a gradient field from attraction >> (the side wich is far from the magnet) to neutral >> (the side at wich the magnet sticks on the other side) >> without any repelling zone. >> Now you can form the magnet bar a little bit better than straight and >> procude a gradient fiel wich is not linear, but like exponential >> (is not necessary, but the device works then better). >> Use this "Gradient magnetic field" bar as stator, put enough magnets >> on a rotor not to have too many magnetic "holes" between them >> (depends in size, strength,material and airgap) >> Place the beginning of the "neutral zone" some degrees (8-10) >> below the Center line to get a mechanical force against the axis. >> This works, but not very well, because most of the magnetic energy in the >> magnets are destroyed in producing the "neutral zone", so only the >> attracing gradient produces force. The neutral zone at the center line >> allows you to "hide" the repelling and let the system com over the top... >> with this, i get a working model, but unfortunally it works only >> 4-5 very weak revolutions and then stopped because on less usable power >and >> friction. >> After elaborating this, i tried to improve the principle and found a >simple >> way to free more energy. I only make the same but the reverse way. >> above the center line, i put a second stator, but with different shape >> to produce a second gradient field with gaining repelling from neutral at >> the center line to full repelling about 15 degrees above center line. >> This imroves the efficiency drastically and allowed my rotor >> to work for 5-8 minutes with free, self sustaining rotations. >> >> This is the principle, on wich my gradient magnetic field motor >> currently works. >> But there are much more improvements possible. >> Currently i work on a second one, wich uses two opposite rotors wich are >> synchronized by a precision gear, magnets on both in repelling, >> between them a symmetrical gradient magnetic field stator, >> wich produces a symmetric attraction field >> wich is about neutral at center line and a little bit above wich gives >> the rotors a litte force and shilding at the centerline. >> Over the Center line, there is nothing else than the airgap between >> the two rotors and the high repelling action drives both rotors wich >> much better force than the attraction below the centerline alone. >> I hope, that will be enough to make the device to work more reliable. >> >> More Energy can be freed, if you simple use more than one stator >> use larger disks, wider magnets, stack some rotors on on axis and so >on... >> >> It is also possible to use this principle on a linear basis, but the >> better controlling of the forces on a rotary system makes it easier >> to design and to work properly. >> I found that if you have understood the principle, it is relative easy >> to find combinations of materials, wich works successful. >> >> My magnets on the rotor weakens relative fast, but i get some input from >> dave squires and Stefan to overcom this. I have to try. >> >> Happy thinking about that stuff, >> as i wrote to stefan, currently (pre christmas time...) i am VERY busy >> in my company, but Butchs ideas are so close to mine that i have >> to respond urgently. >> >> If i have some hours, i will write a complete and detailed >> Compendium with drawings, photos, video and so, >> but currently i have only the time to give all of you some brainfood >> until Christmas, than i will write more about "gradient magnetic fields" >> including more details about stator shapes and quickfield simulations. >> >> Helmut >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Messages archives at : >> http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ >> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to jlnlabs-unsubscribe@egroups.com >> JLN Labs web site at: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Get 75% Off Our Best Selling Health and Wellness Books! >> SelfCare.com has everything you need to take care of you and your family, >> plus spend $40 or more and your shipping is free! >> http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1824 >> >> >> >> eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ >> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications >> >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Messages archives at : >http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ >To unsubscribe, send a blank email to jlnlabs-unsubscribe@egroups.com >JLN Labs web site at: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws. >http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1701 > > > >-- Check out your group's private Chat room >-- http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=jlnlabs&m=1 > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Messages archives at : >http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ >To unsubscribe, send a blank email to jlnlabs-unsubscribe@egroups.com >JLN Labs web site at: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >In the market for computer hardware or software? Compare prices on >more that 100,000 products at CNET.com. Get all the latest news, >reviews and prices! http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1611 > > > > > > >eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs >http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 5 09:17:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA16737; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 09:16:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 09:16:48 -0800 Message-ID: <000f01bf3f44$2b524080$90d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <944401723.4779.147@excite.com> Subject: Re: Time displacement Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 12:14:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"1zFU42.0.Q54.0ufIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13101 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Don't appolagize for the long post. It's like a good book, you don't want a good book to be short, do you? ----- Original Message ----- From: Harvey Norris To: Sent: Sunday, December 05, 1999 8:48 AM Subject: Time displacement > Hi all; > Thought I would break the boredom with the following relevation. I have been > in loose contact with some on the list in which they will recieve the > evidence I have of this. > thus only > > the coils inputs are 180 phased to produce this > > magnetic agreement. Instead > > of the flux lines having to displace space to get > from > > point a back to pt a > > in the oscillation, they displace time instead. The > > time displacement > > produces flux change at right angles to the ordinary > > flux caused by spatial > > flux change, in which the sensor can pick up either > > wave, depending on its > > orientation in space. Most areas of the space in the > > room recieve greater > > energy from the time displacement. The time > > displacement causes free energy > > to appear in our universe. > > The reason for a free energy hypothesis is the input energy required for > production of those magnetic fields. The output portion of that process by > transformation has not been tested, and may in fact be impossible to > harness, however the issue at hand is not whether it can be utilized, but > what the energy input to create the process was. This is a list where those > considerations become relevant, and detractors of the fact will always say: > "Well what good is it, if we cant turn the equation around and make more > energy come out of the process than was inputed?" > > The good of it is we are all in a learning process, if we have to grasp at a > straw to achieve something the laws of physics says is impossible, at least > we can have some evidence in favor of a free energy possibility. And the > possibility of harnessing it is not closed either. I am stating here > categorically that I have succeded in doing it. However the real problem is > that the circuit is highly temperamental, and the jump in time is unproven > and people will remain unconvinced until more energy is taken out than > inputed. However production of time reversed magnetic fields is not only > theorized, it is practically proven as a fact in optics; > > > Western scientists discovered time-reversed EM > > (electro-magnetic) waves in > > the available Soviet nonlinear optics literature in > the > > early 1970's. Prior > > to that time, no one in the West suspected that > > macroscopic, extensive time- > > reversed waves could easily be made and utilized. > > http://www.keelynet.com/biology/betar.htm > > cited entry on Keelynet from Peter Kelly > > One of the strangest paradoxes of all is that when these time reversed > fields are recorded by observation on an oscilloscope, after a certain time > frame of observing them by the frequency response setting of the scope is > passed, they disapear! This has to do with the Heisenberg Uncertainty > Principle, in my opinion. Either that or > a) my scope is malfunctioning > b) I misunderstand the functions of the scope and have made tremendous > errors, or > c) I am actually an agent of the CIA spreading disinformation > > Now we can all use a little humour now and then, but actually Jerry Decker > made a good post on the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle lately under > Paucity of Free Energy Claims. Doesnt have that much to do with this > subject, but at the same time I was making a post on this subject on a dead > freenrg list he made his. I like Jerry's writing style: maybe I am even > jealous of his stature, but we dont always see eye to eye. No need to go off > subject here. > > Today I made the energy input measurements of this circuit by analogue > meter: these are recorded under Re: Neon Bulb Groundings at > http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 > One will have to wade through my historical entries to get there so I have > added this extract of John Kooimans observations under Re: Even another > letter and URL's on the way because of the relevance of that post to what is > being said here; > > Wheeler and Feynman knew that Maxwell's equations are themselves completely > symmetric as far as time is concerned. When you solve the equations to > describe the way a wave propagates, you always get two answers, one > corresponding to a wave moving forward in time and the other a wave moving > backwards in time... Waves moving outwards from an electron, or a radio > antenna, are called 'retarded waves' because they arrive somewhere after > they have been emitted. Waves traveling backwards in time are called > 'advanced' waves, because they arrive somewhere before they have been > emitted... > (my commentary)- > this is precisely the evidence my oscilloscope readings seem to show. The > time frame as referenced by the phase position of the low frequency sweep on > the x axis can change after the high frequency event takes place. What I > theorize is that the time jump occurs to one of the next times when the > field lines occupy the same space. Normally this jump occurs to the mirror > image field line of opposite polarity, but misfires often happen where this > jumps to the time when the field lines occupy the same space in the same > polarity, which does occur twice per half cycle.This disturbs everything and > accomplishes a phase shift. This causes the wave form to be skipping all > over the place with respect to its actual position of phase on the x axis. > This is observed at 60 hz, meaning a significant time dilation effect. When > every thing is stable on the time frame, this misfiring does not occur and > the flux lines magically shift in time to the opposite polarity. Then the > oscilloscope records two high frequency events per cycle,stable on the time > frame, instead of 3 or 4 per cycle. It seems significant that the scope > seems to verify the theory where one can witness very significant phase > shifting when these time misfires occur. This is also postulated as the > reason for the scalar 180 signal blinking on and off. > > Already guilty of making too long of post. If readers dont understand by now > what circuit I used I will end by asking them to go back to Keelynet and > look under author file under Harvey Norris to "Phase Conjugation Circuit?" I > also made an erroneous conclusion there, can anyone see it? The mistakes one > makes leads one to the truth, thats how I got there, by trial and error. > > Sincerely sorry for long post, > HDN > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com > Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 5 09:21:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA18136; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 09:21:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 09:21:32 -0800 Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 11:21:29 -0600 (CST) From: Zack Widup X-Sender: w9sz@bluestem To: Gene Marlin cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Long-Delayed Echoes In-Reply-To: <001901bf3f31$7b02ed40$b35895d1@premio> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"EWhhm.0.DR4.RyfIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13102 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 5 Dec 1999, Gene Marlin wrote: > > I wanted to get comments on my site, the Bootes Project. We are interested > in studying long-delayed radio echoes, with emphasis on the cosmic repeater > hypothesis. That is, we are searching for alien devices in the Earth-Moon > system, and intending to use amateur radio as the method. > > We're also collecting LDE reports > > Let me know what you think. > > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9146 > > This is right up my alley, as radio science is what I did my graduate work in at the University of Illinois. There have been several arricles on LDE's in the American Radio Relay League's magazine, QST. You can probably find the dates with their index at http://www.arrl.org. There have been several theories of LDE's. One theory was that the reflections are taking place from the Lagrange points of the earth's orbit. A much better explanation was presented in a Ph.D. thesis done at Stanford University in the early 70's. I read the paper when I was a graduate student, but don't remember the name of the author. I believe it was done under Prof. O. G. Villard, though. The theory basically showed how an EM wave could be coupled into a slowly-propagating plasma wave under the right magnetic field conditions. After travelling for a while as the plasma wave, it could become recoupled as an EM wave and return to earth, as much as several minutes later. I myself have heard LDE's on several occasions. They are truly weird phenomena - the signal usually gets spread in bandwidth a bit, the frequency is not steady but tends to "wobble" around, and the strength rapidly changes (not in the same manner as aurora reflections or libration fading, which are also very distinct.) Zack (W9SZ) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 5 10:10:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA27958; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:09:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:09:53 -0800 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-3-dyn27.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.191.182.90] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:09:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <027201bf3faf$0810ab00$3c4a66d1@w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: First working magnet motor GIFs ! Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 21:02:06 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"WR_IM.0.lq6.nfgIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13103 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan, Thanks! I was having trouble with those files... Fred >Hi All, > >I have converted Helmut Goebkes DXF Files >to GIF format and have placed them here : > >http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot1.gif >http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot2.gif >http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot3.gif > >Please get them and have a look at it. > >This is pretty easy to build. > >Many thanks to Helmut to make this available ! > >Best regards, Stefan. > >>Hi manfred >> >>no - it is ok and a good service that you converted the >>fles for the others. >>Sorry that i uploaded the files in DXF-format, >>but as i stated, i am currently unter time pressure. >> >>Thank you for your help. >> >>Helmut >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Manfred Boeller [mailto:mboeller@mail.teleconsult.de] >>Sent: Saturday, December 04, 1999 10:42 PM >>To: jlnlabs@egroups.com >>Subject: [jlnlabs] Re: Gradient Magnetic Field Principle >> >> >>Dear Mr. Goebkes, >> >>Thanks for the graphics. Well it took me some time >>to view them, but finally with Star-Office 4.0 I was able to >>view the *.dxf - file-format. >> >>For all the other's I have included the graphics in >>Word95 - Format. I hope this works. >> >>greetings >> >>Manfred >> >>PS.: I hope You do not have something against this? >> >>---------- >>> Von: Helmut Goebkes >>> An: jlnlabs@egroups.com >>> Cc: hart-@harti.com >>> Betreff: [jlnlabs] Gradient Magnetic Field Principle >>> Datum: Samstag, 4. Dezember 1999 18:37 >>> >>> Hi Butch, Stefan, Dave >>> Hi to all >>> >>> Butch you are nearly on it! >>> >>> You found nearly the principle wich my gradient magnetic motor work with. >>> The moving magnets in your drawing relates to my mags on the rotor >>diameter, >>> the iron bar and the magnets is the stator. But your drawing contains >>some >>> errors and disatvantages. I understand your idea behind your drawing and >>> i only can say you are absolutely on the right way. >>> Your draing relates to my new design, wich uses two rotors, >>> but my magnets are on both rotors at the same polarity >>> (for several reasons, explanations coming soon..) >>> Stefan was absolutely right, you have to "hide" the magnet >>> behind the iron bar to compress the flux and make the >>> repelling action not so hard. (ideally it compensates to neutral) >>> Make a simple experiment, and you will find the simple key: >>> >>> (see enclosed sketches for explanation.) >>> >>> Take a soft iron bar (or better amourphous material) >>> and stick a Magnet on the end of one flat side. >>> Make an adjustable airgap in between to adjust field strength. >>> Now, with a second magnet (of similar strength) directed in repelling, >>> check whats happend if you move along the bar on the other side. >>> The result will depend on material, size and some other things, but if >>> all parameters are correct, you will find exotic behaviour: >>> A magnetic Mono-Pole or better said, a device wich produces >>> in conjunction with the moving magnet a gradient field from attraction >>> (the side wich is far from the magnet) to neutral >>> (the side at wich the magnet sticks on the other side) >>> without any repelling zone. >>> Now you can form the magnet bar a little bit better than straight and >>> procude a gradient fiel wich is not linear, but like exponential >>> (is not necessary, but the device works then better). >>> Use this "Gradient magnetic field" bar as stator, put enough magnets >>> on a rotor not to have too many magnetic "holes" between them >>> (depends in size, strength,material and airgap) >>> Place the beginning of the "neutral zone" some degrees (8-10) >>> below the Center line to get a mechanical force against the axis. >>> This works, but not very well, because most of the magnetic energy in the >>> magnets are destroyed in producing the "neutral zone", so only the >>> attracing gradient produces force. The neutral zone at the center line >>> allows you to "hide" the repelling and let the system com over the top... >>> with this, i get a working model, but unfortunally it works only >>> 4-5 very weak revolutions and then stopped because on less usable power >>and >>> friction. >>> After elaborating this, i tried to improve the principle and found a >>simple >>> way to free more energy. I only make the same but the reverse way. >>> above the center line, i put a second stator, but with different shape >>> to produce a second gradient field with gaining repelling from neutral at >>> the center line to full repelling about 15 degrees above center line. >>> This imroves the efficiency drastically and allowed my rotor >>> to work for 5-8 minutes with free, self sustaining rotations. >>> >>> This is the principle, on wich my gradient magnetic field motor >>> currently works. >>> But there are much more improvements possible. >>> Currently i work on a second one, wich uses two opposite rotors wich are >>> synchronized by a precision gear, magnets on both in repelling, >>> between them a symmetrical gradient magnetic field stator, >>> wich produces a symmetric attraction field >>> wich is about neutral at center line and a little bit above wich gives >>> the rotors a litte force and shilding at the centerline. >>> Over the Center line, there is nothing else than the airgap between >>> the two rotors and the high repelling action drives both rotors wich >>> much better force than the attraction below the centerline alone. >>> I hope, that will be enough to make the device to work more reliable. >>> >>> More Energy can be freed, if you simple use more than one stator >>> use larger disks, wider magnets, stack some rotors on on axis and so >>on... >>> >>> It is also possible to use this principle on a linear basis, but the >>> better controlling of the forces on a rotary system makes it easier >>> to design and to work properly. >>> I found that if you have understood the principle, it is relative easy >>> to find combinations of materials, wich works successful. >>> >>> My magnets on the rotor weakens relative fast, but i get some input from >>> dave squires and Stefan to overcom this. I have to try. >>> >>> Happy thinking about that stuff, >>> as i wrote to stefan, currently (pre christmas time...) i am VERY busy >>> in my company, but Butchs ideas are so close to mine that i have >>> to respond urgently. >>> >>> If i have some hours, i will write a complete and detailed >>> Compendium with drawings, photos, video and so, >>> but currently i have only the time to give all of you some brainfood >>> until Christmas, than i will write more about "gradient magnetic fields" >>> including more details about stator shapes and quickfield simulations. >>> >>> Helmut >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Messages archives at : >>> http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ >>> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to jlnlabs-unsubscribe@egroups.com >>> JLN Labs web site at: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Get 75% Off Our Best Selling Health and Wellness Books! >>> SelfCare.com has everything you need to take care of you and your family, >>> plus spend $40 or more and your shipping is free! >>> http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1824 >>> >>> >>> >>> eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ >>> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications >>> >>> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>Messages archives at : >>http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ >>To unsubscribe, send a blank email to jlnlabs-unsubscribe@egroups.com >>JLN Labs web site at: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws. >>http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1701 >> >> >> >>-- Check out your group's private Chat room >>-- http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=jlnlabs&m=1 >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>Messages archives at : >>http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ >>To unsubscribe, send a blank email to jlnlabs-unsubscribe@egroups.com >>JLN Labs web site at: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>In the market for computer hardware or software? Compare prices on >>more that 100,000 products at CNET.com. Get all the latest news, >>reviews and prices! http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1611 >> >> >> >> >> >> >>eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs >>http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications >> >> >> >> >> >> > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 5 10:58:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA10864; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:58:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:58:04 -0800 Message-ID: <004701bf3f52$51fd82e0$dd9910cf@drosigno> Reply-To: "David Rosignoli" From: "David Rosignoli" To: Cc: References: <0.281adc90.257ba345@aol.com> Subject: Re: ARDA Mk3 :GREAT EVENT !!!, The POB test in a closed run Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 13:55:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"6vfbs2.0.bf2.yMhIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13104 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Nicely done. But have you measured rotation rate vs. applied voltage? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, December 05, 1999 6:15 AM Subject: ARDA Mk3 :GREAT EVENT !!!, The POB test in a closed run > Dear All, > > GREAT EVENT - Dec 4th, 1999 - "The Power On Board" test in a closed run : > > The "Power On Board" test (POB test) in a closed run is a new great step for > the ARDA Project. The purpose of this test is to prove that a Biefeld-Brown > effect flying wing is able to generate its OWN THRUST with its power supply > "on board" and disconnected from the ground. This proves definitely that the > ARDA Concept is real and can be applied on a full scale craft. > > In the previous POB test done on November 27th, 1999, the ARDA Mk3 did run > only a half turn successfully during two tests due to the lack of space for a > full turn. This new test has been conducted in a wider area (a hangar) which > allows a full turn in closed loop without problem. > > The "Power On Board" test has been done successfully on December 4th, 1999 ( > 16h00 )... > > Two full closed run tests have been done successfully. > There is no motor, no moving parts and the fly is done silently. > > You will all pictures, datas and videos at : > http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/arda3cl1.htm > > Best Regards > Jean-Louis Naudin > Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com > Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm > eGroup:http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 5 12:56:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA15284; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 12:55:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 12:55:49 -0800 Message-ID: <384AD135.AFFF523E@glasnet.ru> Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 23:55:17 +0300 From: "Sergei M.Godin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: First working magnet motor GIFs ! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZNdD31.0.jk3.L5jIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13105 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Stefan! Thanks for this files, its interesting. Do you have more detailed info about characteristics of this motor? Any photos? Sergei. Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have converted Helmut Goebkes DXF Files > to GIF format and have placed them here : > > http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot1.gif > http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot2.gif > http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot3.gif > > Please get them and have a look at it. > > This is pretty easy to build. > > Many thanks to Helmut to make this available ! > > Best regards, Stefan. > > >Hi manfred > > > >no - it is ok and a good service that you converted the > >fles for the others. > >Sorry that i uploaded the files in DXF-format, > >but as i stated, i am currently unter time pressure. > > > >Thank you for your help. > > > >Helmut > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Manfred Boeller [mailto:mboeller@mail.teleconsult.de] > >Sent: Saturday, December 04, 1999 10:42 PM > >To: jlnlabs@egroups.com > >Subject: [jlnlabs] Re: Gradient Magnetic Field Principle > > > > > >Dear Mr. Goebkes, > > > >Thanks for the graphics. Well it took me some time > >to view them, but finally with Star-Office 4.0 I was able to > >view the *.dxf - file-format. > > > >For all the other's I have included the graphics in > >Word95 - Format. I hope this works. > > > >greetings > > > >Manfred > > > >PS.: I hope You do not have something against this? > > > >---------- > >> Von: Helmut Goebkes > >> An: jlnlabs@egroups.com > >> Cc: hart-@harti.com > >> Betreff: [jlnlabs] Gradient Magnetic Field Principle > >> Datum: Samstag, 4. Dezember 1999 18:37 > >> > >> Hi Butch, Stefan, Dave > >> Hi to all > >> > >> Butch you are nearly on it! > >> > >> You found nearly the principle wich my gradient magnetic motor work with. > >> The moving magnets in your drawing relates to my mags on the rotor > >diameter, > >> the iron bar and the magnets is the stator. But your drawing contains > >some > >> errors and disatvantages. I understand your idea behind your drawing and > >> i only can say you are absolutely on the right way. > >> Your draing relates to my new design, wich uses two rotors, > >> but my magnets are on both rotors at the same polarity > >> (for several reasons, explanations coming soon..) > >> Stefan was absolutely right, you have to "hide" the magnet > >> behind the iron bar to compress the flux and make the > >> repelling action not so hard. (ideally it compensates to neutral) > >> Make a simple experiment, and you will find the simple key: > >> > >> (see enclosed sketches for explanation.) > >> > >> Take a soft iron bar (or better amourphous material) > >> and stick a Magnet on the end of one flat side. > >> Make an adjustable airgap in between to adjust field strength. > >> Now, with a second magnet (of similar strength) directed in repelling, > >> check whats happend if you move along the bar on the other side. > >> The result will depend on material, size and some other things, but if > >> all parameters are correct, you will find exotic behaviour: > >> A magnetic Mono-Pole or better said, a device wich produces > >> in conjunction with the moving magnet a gradient field from attraction > >> (the side wich is far from the magnet) to neutral > >> (the side at wich the magnet sticks on the other side) > >> without any repelling zone. > >> Now you can form the magnet bar a little bit better than straight and > >> procude a gradient fiel wich is not linear, but like exponential > >> (is not necessary, but the device works then better). > >> Use this "Gradient magnetic field" bar as stator, put enough magnets > >> on a rotor not to have too many magnetic "holes" between them > >> (depends in size, strength,material and airgap) > >> Place the beginning of the "neutral zone" some degrees (8-10) > >> below the Center line to get a mechanical force against the axis. > >> This works, but not very well, because most of the magnetic energy in the > >> magnets are destroyed in producing the "neutral zone", so only the > >> attracing gradient produces force. The neutral zone at the center line > >> allows you to "hide" the repelling and let the system com over the top... > >> with this, i get a working model, but unfortunally it works only > >> 4-5 very weak revolutions and then stopped because on less usable power > >and > >> friction. > >> After elaborating this, i tried to improve the principle and found a > >simple > >> way to free more energy. I only make the same but the reverse way. > >> above the center line, i put a second stator, but with different shape > >> to produce a second gradient field with gaining repelling from neutral at > >> the center line to full repelling about 15 degrees above center line. > >> This imroves the efficiency drastically and allowed my rotor > >> to work for 5-8 minutes with free, self sustaining rotations. > >> > >> This is the principle, on wich my gradient magnetic field motor > >> currently works. > >> But there are much more improvements possible. > >> Currently i work on a second one, wich uses two opposite rotors wich are > >> synchronized by a precision gear, magnets on both in repelling, > >> between them a symmetrical gradient magnetic field stator, > >> wich produces a symmetric attraction field > >> wich is about neutral at center line and a little bit above wich gives > >> the rotors a litte force and shilding at the centerline. > >> Over the Center line, there is nothing else than the airgap between > >> the two rotors and the high repelling action drives both rotors wich > >> much better force than the attraction below the centerline alone. > >> I hope, that will be enough to make the device to work more reliable. > >> > >> More Energy can be freed, if you simple use more than one stator > >> use larger disks, wider magnets, stack some rotors on on axis and so > >on... > >> > >> It is also possible to use this principle on a linear basis, but the > >> better controlling of the forces on a rotary system makes it easier > >> to design and to work properly. > >> I found that if you have understood the principle, it is relative easy > >> to find combinations of materials, wich works successful. > >> > >> My magnets on the rotor weakens relative fast, but i get some input from > >> dave squires and Stefan to overcom this. I have to try. > >> > >> Happy thinking about that stuff, > >> as i wrote to stefan, currently (pre christmas time...) i am VERY busy > >> in my company, but Butchs ideas are so close to mine that i have > >> to respond urgently. > >> > >> If i have some hours, i will write a complete and detailed > >> Compendium with drawings, photos, video and so, > >> but currently i have only the time to give all of you some brainfood > >> until Christmas, than i will write more about "gradient magnetic fields" > >> including more details about stator shapes and quickfield simulations. > >> > >> Helmut > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Messages archives at : > >> http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ > >> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to jlnlabs-unsubscribe@egroups.com > >> JLN Labs web site at: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Get 75% Off Our Best Selling Health and Wellness Books! > >> SelfCare.com has everything you need to take care of you and your family, > >> plus spend $40 or more and your shipping is free! > >> http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1824 > >> > >> > >> > >> eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ > >> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications > >> > >> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Messages archives at : > >http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ > >To unsubscribe, send a blank email to jlnlabs-unsubscribe@egroups.com > >JLN Labs web site at: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws. > >http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1701 > > > > > > > >-- Check out your group's private Chat room > >-- http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=jlnlabs&m=1 > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Messages archives at : > >http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ > >To unsubscribe, send a blank email to jlnlabs-unsubscribe@egroups.com > >JLN Labs web site at: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >In the market for computer hardware or software? Compare prices on > >more that 100,000 products at CNET.com. Get all the latest news, > >reviews and prices! http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1611 > > > > > > > > > > > > > >eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs > >http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 5 13:03:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA18106; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 13:03:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 13:03:25 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <0.bf53cb7c.257c2d0b@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:03:07 EST Subject: Re:Helmut, balance systems, true o/u is here! To: jlnlabs@egroups.com, energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"ngvoZ1.0.pQ4.TCjIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13106 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 12/4/99 11:43:41 AM Central Standard Time, Technologie2000@t-online.de writes: > Happy thinking about that stuff, > as i wrote to stefan, currently (pre christmas time...) i am VERY busy > in my company, but Butchs ideas are so close to mine that i have > to respond urgently. > > If i have some hours, i will write a complete and detailed > Compendium with drawings, photos, video and so, > but currently i have only the time to give all of you some brainfood > until Christmas, than i will write more about "gradient magnetic fields" > including more details about stator shapes and quickfield simulations. > Helmut Helmut, Thanks for the information. I believe that true self sustaining overunity devices are here! I have always felt that balance of the attraction and repulsion forces was the best approach. I know the people on the list got tired of me posting about "balance systems" but I felt that if enough people were to work with the balance system principle that an overunity device would develope in time. I have a lot of information to share with the list on designs along these lines. You are so right about the iron being between the magnet and rotor. It makes the balance system so much easier to work with. I have a video with audio, of a balance system I built years ago to show the basic principle of the spin balance idea. I built a fixture and video taped it but didn't know how to put it on the web. I am working with Brett Nichols now to get a web site up that is not on AOL that will have all my ideas, 150 to 200 of them on the site as well as the video and any new ideas Brett and I can come up with. Your work is true overunity and I believe the demagnetizing of the magnet can be overcome. The list has served it's purpose well in providing a means for exchange of ideas. I have always felt "brain storming" was a very good approach in combination with the conventional means of research. The next few weeks and months I feel will bring what the world has been looking for for a very long time, free energy! Thanks for the information again, Butch LaFonte Leeds, Al. USA Phone 1-205-699-5364 Central Standard Time Zone From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 5 13:36:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA29566; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 13:35:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 13:35:58 -0800 From: MKSBoysal@aol.com Message-ID: <0.b22db66c.257c34b5@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:35:49 EST Subject: Energy Conversions (BTU etc) To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"bhuYg3.0.tD7.zgjIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13107 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: << Hi all, Here is a reference page about energy conversions. Such as BTU and more In case any one needs Mehmet.>> http://www.nrggroup.com/btu.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 5 19:00:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA08073; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 18:59:36 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 18:59:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <384345513.944448073544.JavaMail.root@web20.pub01> Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 21:41:13 -0500 (EST) From: Doggiedoor Doomsday To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time displacement Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: mail.com X-Originating-IP: 12.73.27.126 Resent-Message-ID: <"Vz60X.0.xz1.HQoIu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13108 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I just had a thought. What if distance is an illusion, and time is what causes quantum tunneling? What if instead of an electron's probability being spread over space so it can cross a small barrier, its probability spreads over a few nanoseconds, and an electron "quantum tunnels" because it goes to a few nanoseconds in the future where it did (would?) exist on the other side of the barrier. What would prevent time from being described as a quantum field? ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com?sr=mc.mk.mcm.tag001 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 5 19:10:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA27844; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 19:09:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 19:09:59 -0800 Message-ID: <384B2966.450A@cyberportal.net> Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 22:11:34 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Say What is On your Mind!" CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Indoor Fountains References: <0.3b570ca3.257c6c7a@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qcZt81.0.zo6.7aoIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13109 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MGPerrault@aol.com wrote: > > Also interesting is the fog makers for indoor fountains. > Some kind of high freq ceramic pellet that makes instant > fog on low power. Feels hot to the touch but isn't > thermally hot. Sounds like ultrasonics to me. Does anyone know where to get one of these fog makers? I would like to combine one of these with my carbon electrolysis chamber. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 6 00:22:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA23777; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 00:21:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 00:21:55 -0800 Message-ID: <384B71D7.4E10276A@harti.com> Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 09:20:39 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: First working magnet motor GIFs ! X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <384AA262.6CA@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MQYLU.0.Qp5.Y8tIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13110 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg East schrieb: > > Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > I have converted Helmut Goebkes DXF Files > > to GIF format and have placed them here : > > > > http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot1.gif > > http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot2.gif > > http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot3.gif > > > > Please get them and have a look at it. > > > > This is pretty easy to build. > > > > Many thanks to Helmut to make this available ! > > > > Best regards, Stefan. > > Hi Stefan, > > Does this motor ACTUALLY run....I mean to the extent that it at least > overcomes its own bearing friction? Mr. Goebkes says it did run for about 5 to 8 Minutes. > > I understand the eprinciple just fine in that the arrangement can > produce some exotic effects as a result of the air-gap and shaped/spaced > stator. > > But, does it actually work? Have you seen movies of it in operation? Not yet. I hope he will post soon a few pics and a MPEG or RealVideo movie. He is currently working on a 2 rotor system. There are many parameters to emhance this principle. First we have to find out, how the magnets will not discharge... Maybe Barium ferrite magnets will be better, cause they don´t have any eddy currents in themself. > > Best wishes and season's greetings, > > Greg East -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 6 06:17:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA24043; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 06:17:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 06:17:27 -0800 Message-ID: <384BC5CA.42B3@cyberportal.net> Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 09:18:50 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Say What is On your Mind!" CC: nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Mist Maker References: <0.b737e385.257d1508@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0kkuv2.0.at5.tLyIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13111 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: BART2SUE@aol.com wrote: > > Here is the Discovery channel store for you ! HREF="http://shopping.discovery.com/genre/home_accessoriesfountains.html">Disc > overy Online Store -- Home Accessories > Bart > they ask for $40.00 Thanks! This link is also a good picture to compare the mist from the Joe Cell... http://shopping.discovery.com/product/733428.html -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 6 06:25:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA27302; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 06:24:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 06:24:43 -0800 Message-ID: <384BC6E2.36060BE7@harti.com> Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 15:23:30 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: jlnlabs@egroups.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jlnlabs@egroups.com, Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Reconverted Goebkes Magnet motor DXFs to better GIFs X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5sC-U.0.Rg6.gSyIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13112 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, as the color was not very good I reconverted the DXF pics now to better GIFs which are now much easier to view ! Enjoy ! http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot1.gif http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot2.gif http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot3.gif First working permanent magnet motor principle. Thanks to Helmut Goebkes for posting these drawings ! Regards, Stefan. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 6 06:28:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA28776; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 06:28:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 06:28:25 -0800 Message-ID: <384BC7C1.D379B8D@harti.com> Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 15:27:13 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: First working magnet motor GIFs ! References: <384AD135.AFFF523E@glasnet.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3n3bs1.0.X17.8WyIu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13113 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "Sergei M.Godin" schrieb: > > Hello Stefan! > > Thanks for this files, its interesting. > Do you have more detailed info about characteristics of this motor? > Any photos? > Not yet, it was running about 5 to 8 minutes he told me. Then the magnets were just too weak ! > Sergei. > > Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > I have converted Helmut Goebkes DXF Files > > to GIF format and have placed them here : > > > > http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot1.gif > > http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot2.gif > > http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot3.gif > > > > Please get them and have a look at it. > > > > This is pretty easy to build. > > > > Many thanks to Helmut to make this available ! > > > > Best regards, Stefan. > > > > >Hi manfred > > > > > >no - it is ok and a good service that you converted the > > >fles for the others. > > >Sorry that i uploaded the files in DXF-format, > > >but as i stated, i am currently unter time pressure. > > > > > >Thank you for your help. > > > > > >Helmut > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Manfred Boeller [mailto:mboeller@mail.teleconsult.de] > > >Sent: Saturday, December 04, 1999 10:42 PM > > >To: jlnlabs@egroups.com > > >Subject: [jlnlabs] Re: Gradient Magnetic Field Principle > > > > > > > > >Dear Mr. Goebkes, > > > > > >Thanks for the graphics. Well it took me some time > > >to view them, but finally with Star-Office 4.0 I was able to > > >view the *.dxf - file-format. > > > > > >For all the other's I have included the graphics in > > >Word95 - Format. I hope this works. > > > > > >greetings > > > > > >Manfred > > > > > >PS.: I hope You do not have something against this? > > > > > >---------- > > >> Von: Helmut Goebkes > > >> An: jlnlabs@egroups.com > > >> Cc: hart-@harti.com > > >> Betreff: [jlnlabs] Gradient Magnetic Field Principle > > >> Datum: Samstag, 4. Dezember 1999 18:37 > > >> > > >> Hi Butch, Stefan, Dave > > >> Hi to all > > >> > > >> Butch you are nearly on it! > > >> > > >> You found nearly the principle wich my gradient magnetic motor work with. > > >> The moving magnets in your drawing relates to my mags on the rotor > > >diameter, > > >> the iron bar and the magnets is the stator. But your drawing contains > > >some > > >> errors and disatvantages. I understand your idea behind your drawing and > > >> i only can say you are absolutely on the right way. > > >> Your draing relates to my new design, wich uses two rotors, > > >> but my magnets are on both rotors at the same polarity > > >> (for several reasons, explanations coming soon..) > > >> Stefan was absolutely right, you have to "hide" the magnet > > >> behind the iron bar to compress the flux and make the > > >> repelling action not so hard. (ideally it compensates to neutral) > > >> Make a simple experiment, and you will find the simple key: > > >> > > >> (see enclosed sketches for explanation.) > > >> > > >> Take a soft iron bar (or better amourphous material) > > >> and stick a Magnet on the end of one flat side. > > >> Make an adjustable airgap in between to adjust field strength. > > >> Now, with a second magnet (of similar strength) directed in repelling, > > >> check whats happend if you move along the bar on the other side. > > >> The result will depend on material, size and some other things, but if > > >> all parameters are correct, you will find exotic behaviour: > > >> A magnetic Mono-Pole or better said, a device wich produces > > >> in conjunction with the moving magnet a gradient field from attraction > > >> (the side wich is far from the magnet) to neutral > > >> (the side at wich the magnet sticks on the other side) > > >> without any repelling zone. > > >> Now you can form the magnet bar a little bit better than straight and > > >> procude a gradient fiel wich is not linear, but like exponential > > >> (is not necessary, but the device works then better). > > >> Use this "Gradient magnetic field" bar as stator, put enough magnets > > >> on a rotor not to have too many magnetic "holes" between them > > >> (depends in size, strength,material and airgap) > > >> Place the beginning of the "neutral zone" some degrees (8-10) > > >> below the Center line to get a mechanical force against the axis. > > >> This works, but not very well, because most of the magnetic energy in the > > >> magnets are destroyed in producing the "neutral zone", so only the > > >> attracing gradient produces force. The neutral zone at the center line > > >> allows you to "hide" the repelling and let the system com over the top... > > >> with this, i get a working model, but unfortunally it works only > > >> 4-5 very weak revolutions and then stopped because on less usable power > > >and > > >> friction. > > >> After elaborating this, i tried to improve the principle and found a > > >simple > > >> way to free more energy. I only make the same but the reverse way. > > >> above the center line, i put a second stator, but with different shape > > >> to produce a second gradient field with gaining repelling from neutral at > > >> the center line to full repelling about 15 degrees above center line. > > >> This imroves the efficiency drastically and allowed my rotor > > >> to work for 5-8 minutes with free, self sustaining rotations. > > >> > > >> This is the principle, on wich my gradient magnetic field motor > > >> currently works. > > >> But there are much more improvements possible. > > >> Currently i work on a second one, wich uses two opposite rotors wich are > > >> synchronized by a precision gear, magnets on both in repelling, > > >> between them a symmetrical gradient magnetic field stator, > > >> wich produces a symmetric attraction field > > >> wich is about neutral at center line and a little bit above wich gives > > >> the rotors a litte force and shilding at the centerline. > > >> Over the Center line, there is nothing else than the airgap between > > >> the two rotors and the high repelling action drives both rotors wich > > >> much better force than the attraction below the centerline alone. > > >> I hope, that will be enough to make the device to work more reliable. > > >> > > >> More Energy can be freed, if you simple use more than one stator > > >> use larger disks, wider magnets, stack some rotors on on axis and so > > >on... > > >> > > >> It is also possible to use this principle on a linear basis, but the > > >> better controlling of the forces on a rotary system makes it easier > > >> to design and to work properly. > > >> I found that if you have understood the principle, it is relative easy > > >> to find combinations of materials, wich works successful. > > >> > > >> My magnets on the rotor weakens relative fast, but i get some input from > > >> dave squires and Stefan to overcom this. I have to try. > > >> > > >> Happy thinking about that stuff, > > >> as i wrote to stefan, currently (pre christmas time...) i am VERY busy > > >> in my company, but Butchs ideas are so close to mine that i have > > >> to respond urgently. > > >> > > >> If i have some hours, i will write a complete and detailed > > >> Compendium with drawings, photos, video and so, > > >> but currently i have only the time to give all of you some brainfood > > >> until Christmas, than i will write more about "gradient magnetic fields" > > >> including more details about stator shapes and quickfield simulations. > > >> > > >> Helmut > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> Messages archives at : > > >> http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ > > >> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to jlnlabs-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > >> JLN Labs web site at: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> Get 75% Off Our Best Selling Health and Wellness Books! > > >> SelfCare.com has everything you need to take care of you and your family, > > >> plus spend $40 or more and your shipping is free! > > >> http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1824 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ > > >> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications > > >> > > >> > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >Messages archives at : > > >http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ > > >To unsubscribe, send a blank email to jlnlabs-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > >JLN Labs web site at: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws. > > >http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1701 > > > > > > > > > > > >-- Check out your group's private Chat room > > >-- http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=jlnlabs&m=1 > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >Messages archives at : > > >http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ > > >To unsubscribe, send a blank email to jlnlabs-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > >JLN Labs web site at: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >In the market for computer hardware or software? Compare prices on > > >more that 100,000 products at CNET.com. Get all the latest news, > > >reviews and prices! http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1611 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs > > >http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 6 08:07:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA22242; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 08:06:53 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 08:06:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <384BDEA1.7863DB1A@ctv.es> Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 17:04:49 +0100 From: Vicente Jose Ramos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [es] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jlnlabs@egroups.com CC: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: Reconverted Goebkes Magnet motor DXFs to better GIFs References: <384BC6E2.36060BE7@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Hdzgy3.0.IR5.PyzIu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13114 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all... I tried the device showed in Bedini pages sometime ago... This seems a balanced system. Selfrunning will depend in steerballs friction. If friction is 0, this device will run forever. Is very near Jean Louis Rotating SMOT: a balanced system. Vicente. Stefan Hartmann escribió: > Hi, > as the color was not very good I reconverted the > DXF pics now to better GIFs which are now much easier to view ! > Enjoy ! > > http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot1.gif > http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot2.gif > http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot3.gif > > First working permanent magnet motor principle. > Thanks to Helmut Goebkes for posting these drawings ! > > Regards, Stefan. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 6 10:11:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA13272; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:10:34 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:10:34 -0800 (PST) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <0.d1037667.257d5547@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:07:03 EST Subject: test, delete To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"DrNun.0.HF3.Om_Iu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13115 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: delete From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 6 10:22:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA21827; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:22:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:22:19 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <0.d6c235a9.257d58d6@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:22:14 EST Subject: Magnetic Wankel magnets don't demagnetize? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"Lc-z_.0.xK5.Rx_Iu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13116 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Helmut and all, I got to thinking, why don't the magnets in the magnetic Wankel demagnetize? They are in repulsion. Is it just because of the iron in you design? Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 6 13:24:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA11195; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:23:44 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:23:44 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <384C2684.783D@cyberportal.net> Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 16:11:33 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@listbot.com CC: nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: K-Capture Generator Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"N_uSk1.0.dk2.Qb2Ju"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13117 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear list members, Here is the information that I promised to post once it was received... http://www.nuenergy.org/k.htm -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 6 15:48:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA06804; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 15:48:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 15:48:03 -0800 Message-ID: <384C4AE3.EFC5986B@harti.com> Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 00:46:43 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jlnlabs@egroups.com CC: energy21@listbot.com, HLafonte@aol.com, Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: [jlnlabs] Magnetic Wankel magnets don't demagnetize? References: <0.3e7483bf.257d4313@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nlBV03.0.8g1.oi4Ju"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13118 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I suppose it is because Neodym magnets have a pretty low ohmic resistance and this will cause huge eddy curents in them, when the rotor rotates in front of the stator. This way they might demagnetise themself. But I am really curious, if they also heat them up themself ?? Helmut did they get pretty warm on the surface after your 5 to 8 minutes run ? Maybe they did get hotter than 350 degrees Celsius, which is over their Curie temperature and this way they did demagnetize or change their anisotropie ? I can only image that it was due to eddy current heat, normally you can´t demagnetize a Neodym magnet so fast... HLafonte@aol.com schrieb: > > Helmut and all, > I got to thinking, why don't the magnets in the magnetic Wankel demagnetize? > They are in repulsion! Is it just because of the iron? See attached gif. > Butch > > -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 6 20:55:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA20825; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 20:55:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 20:55:43 -0800 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.2 on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <384B2966.450A@cyberportal.net> Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 20:57:15 -0800 (PST) Sender: jim@eskimo.com From: Me To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Indoor Fountains Resent-Message-ID: <"wNgL_.0.I55.ED9Ju"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13119 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 06-Dec-1999 Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > MGPerrault@aol.com wrote: >> >> Also interesting is the fog makers for indoor fountains. >> Some kind of high freq ceramic pellet that makes instant >> fog on low power. Feels hot to the touch but isn't >> thermally hot. > > > Sounds like ultrasonics to me. Does anyone know where to get > one of these fog makers? I would like to combine one of these > with my carbon electrolysis chamber. > > > -Bruce A. Perreault Try costume stores or theater supply. Maybe near the local university Jim Richardson Anarchist, pagan and proud of it WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 6 22:19:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA17974; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:19:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:19:48 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <0.a711fe0a.257e00c0@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 01:18:40 EST Subject: Balance fixture video/audio on web site To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, energy21@listbot.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"0W08J1.0.kO4.4SAJu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13120 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, Brett Nichols is putting together a site for he and I to put our past and present ideas, tests, ect. on. We are opening it a few weeks early with just a video with audio of a balance fixture I built years ago to show how easy it is to achieve cancellation of attraction and repulsion forces using a simple fixture. Download time is long, but I believe you will enjoy it as the magnets are VERY strong rare earth magnets, but appear to be absent of any forces (It was very hard to pull them apart by hand). Its as though they are made of an almost non- magnetic material. The site will soon have hundrends of drawings of past and present ideas, theories, and tests. If you have any trouble with the site or video, please send email direct to me to save list space. Researchwebsite or http://members.xoom.com/LNlabs/research.htm Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 6 22:28:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA21610; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:28:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:28:02 -0800 Message-ID: <384C8D5B.4F0E@intergate.bc.ca> Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 23:30:19 -0500 From: Alik Shereshevsky Reply-To: alik@intergate.bc.ca X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time displacement References: <944401723.4779.147@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"p9c6l.0.RH5.nZAJu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13121 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Harvey Norris wrote: > > One of the strangest paradoxes of all is that when these time reversed > fields are recorded by observation on an oscilloscope, after a certain time > frame of observing them by the frequency response setting of the scope is > passed, they disapear! Can you describe a little better what exactly happened (what scope you had, what settings, and how the time reversed wave was created), sounds interesting. Alik From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 7 02:47:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA03247; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 02:47:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 02:47:31 -0800 From: "Harvey Norris" To: alik@intergate.bc.ca, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time displacement Message-Id: <944563570.11259.838@excite.com> Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 02:46:10 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.55 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"U7YW-1.0.ao.2NEJu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13122 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 06 Dec 1999 23:30:19 -0500, Alik Shereshevsky wrote: > Harvey Norris wrote: > > > > One of the strangest paradoxes of all is that when these time reversed > > fields are recorded by observation on an oscilloscope, after a certain time > > frame of observing them by the frequency response setting of the scope is > > passed, they disapear! > > Can you describe a little better what exactly happened > (what scope you had, what settings, and how the time reversed > wave was created), sounds interesting. > > Alik > Yes I spent most of today trying to document some of this on VHS tape. Tommorow I am making copies to send to some individuals to gain their opinion, including Rick Andersen who showed some interest. This is a very poor production in that the device is located in a small room and I could not get the camera back far enough to easily simultaneously record the position of the inductor with respect to the 160 lb coil system and the oscilloscope, 20 Mhz Heath model 4221 (ancient) Additionally I had no assistance in filming this so I repeatedly had to go back and forth to do both jobs of showing the inductor position and then showing the scope signal. Some of it is repetitive, but the tape as a whole touches on the major themes. If you would like a copy write off list, but you will have to wait until the fourth or fifth copy is made several days from now. Basically all of these developements stem from the application of the device as an electrotherapy machine to treat a bad case of gout I am still recovering from. I posted this as Electrotherapy on freenrg archives. When I made that post I said that the device didnt operate as a high frequency treatment, only at 60 hz. I was mistaken because this was the early stage of research, and I hadnt investigated all the areas of the magnetic field around the coil system. What happened was that I had the .36 mH inductor from a microwave oven inside the coils from the system to record the flux change from the magnetic field. I couldnt see it and it had inadvertedly fell over sideways. I noticed this when I went to move it to another location. I thought that was strange,(this is ALL very strange!) I shouldnt be recording much of any flux change with that orientation. This led to placing the inductor outside of the coils system in the polar area about a foot away. Since I was disatisfied that the sensor wasnt or didnt seem to be recording a high frequency signal, I changed the arc gap from a double to a single gap, something I knew from past experience that would cause the high frequency to occur. This then was measured at 31,250 hz, a lower frequency than recorded some years ago with different coils of more identical inductances. What I found was that the orientation didnt matter, it recieved signals as if there were 3 dimensions of flux change. The flux change wasnt polarized on a single dimension, as is the case with traditional magnetic field measurements. But the signal had a scalar signature, or a 180 phased mirror image counterpart on the other side of the x axis, that would mostly blink on and off. I began to really wonder how a scope could record such a thing! I reasoned at first that perhaps different time periods were being used, and I was only seeing an overlap of trace readings, and the scope was showing an illusion because two magnetic fields going different directions cannot simultaneuosly exist in the same space. But this kind of reasoning was again assaulted with the fact that the original signal did not blink on and off like the mirror image did, which should have occured if these were actually occuring at different times in the sweep. This led me back to a post I made called Red Dwarf my Mind on freenrg archives. I dont think many caught the ramifications of that but it involves the science fiction team landing on an earth running backwards in time. I think I have made erroneous conclusions on some of these things I have already posted on this but I reasoned that since almost everything appeared as a free energy process to the RED DWARF team, anytime we react a backwards running universe with a forward one and where they exist in the same space, each would appear as a free energy process to the other. Using this kind of thinking I wondered how an alternating current on a coil would look to both universes. I reasoned that perhaps whenever a north pole existed in space in a polar area from this AC coil, the other universe might view it as a south pole. This could be viewed as a fatal flaw of reasoning, except for perhaps one fact: if whenever one field was expanding, the other was collapsing, which occurs in this topsy turvey universes sharing backwards and forward running time existing in the same space, THEN both conditions would deliver the SAME result. Only the relative views remain different between the universes, it still produces the same effect. Thus the only way a north magnetic field can exist simultaneously in the same space as a south magnetic field, is if one of the magnetic fields were running backwards in time!!! That little bit of mental gymnastics should be able to further be proven when the signal is rectified. If what I say is true than the seemingly opposite phased voltages should not actually cancel, the cancellation the oscilloscope is showing as oppositely phased voltages is itself an illusion since it is recording one of the fields traveling backwards in time!! Thus double the amperage should be recorded when both these mirror image signals appear. This is yet to be tried. If this occurs, then the next step is to show that it is a free energy circuit, by virtue of the fact that the power consumption for the reverse time signal is null, it appears a free energy process in our universe. The power consumption of the circuit is shown in the video by analogue meter,(Digital will not record it, the display blinks and freezes in this parametric oscillation)it can run as low as .04 amps @ 120 volt input, around 5 watts. It takes 24 watts to run the circuit in 180 phased series resonance at 60 hz. I have placed the exact L and C values of the circuit, and how they were determined at my messageboard at http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 under the reply to 31,250 hz Scalar Emitter. Now to address your above quote I made, what happened when I treated my self with electrotherapy was that this 180 phased signal at 60 hz appeared on the scope. Actually it was off about 1/16 of a cycle. This signal would only appear when I placed my foot on the insulated electrode I had made from a plastic clipboard. Tom Bearden is big on this electrotherapy thing now, he says that time reversed waves can be used to heal the body, and that the body is actually a receptor to scalar waves, it acts as a scalar interferometer device. It amplifies the scalar waves. I found this to be the case, but I have a slightly different take on it. As evidence of this if I move the sensor out of the room about 10 feet from the coil system, practically no signal is recieved, but if I touch it I get half the signal strength it recieves when 1 foot from the polar area. Tomorrow when I add the last segment on an effort to show the electrothearapy device in high frequency mode I will show the sensor placed on the foot pad. As we know a rapidly changing electric field induces a magnetic field at right angles, and thats what the sensor shows. Now I remove the sensor out away from that location and away from the coil system that seems to only show a 60 hz oscillation. Now I place my foot there, while placing the fingers of my hand through the loops of the sensor coil. The sensor now shows about double the flux change then when it was directly above the high frequency electric field, and a perfect scalar signature at 31,250 hz is seen, with no blinking. This occupies about 2 divisions on a 20 microsecond/div sweep rate. What I wrote about Heisenbergs Uncertainty Principle was that the sweep rates give different information on their settings. If I now turn up the freq. selector to 5 microseconds/div, a new signal appears about 1/5 the voltage, in a non scalar, or uncancelled form. Likewise in the original settings showing a lack of high frequency on the coil system, these were showing a scalar signature on the 60 hz viewing sweeps of 2 millisecond/ div and below, but at 5ms and 10 ms they were abscent. I will have to make another post on what my take on the body as a scalar amplifier means in accordance with the work of Andrija Puharich, whose work was a spin off of medical research, and also how that applies to some other research to duplicate his claims of water shattering. Hope I didnt exceed the posting limit. HDN ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 7 03:10:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA07723; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 03:10:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 03:10:48 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <0.6cf24940.257e4531@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 06:10:41 EST Subject: ADV Prop Website down -> link to mirror the site To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 30 Resent-Message-ID: <"UC-KK3.0.au1.uiEJu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13123 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear All, Today the main "Advanced propulsion researches web site is down, you must use the mirror site at : http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/advprop.htm Sorry, for this, I wish that this problem will be soon solved.... Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 7 04:04:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA14986; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 04:04:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 04:04:14 -0800 Message-ID: <384CF771.4B2BE87F@harti.com> Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 13:02:57 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jlnlabs@egroups.com, steve edward george , HLafonte@aol.com, Free Energy Subject: Re: [jlnlabs] Re: Magnetic Wankel magnets don't demagnetize? References: <19991206214214.7006.qmail@web123.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jULr61.0.-f3.-UFJu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13124 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Steve and Butch, actually this magentic wankel was build with 3 rotor parts inside ! I have been reading it somewhere, but can´t remember the article. The picture shows it just with one rotor magnet due to the better principle overview. Regards, Stefan. steve edward george schrieb: > > Actually Butch, > > I was wondering about a year ago why they did not use > three magnets in the center. With a three magnets > working there would always be two doing actual work > when that third encounters the coil kicker. > > I don't know if those two other magnets actively > working would have enough rotary force to overcome > resistance to that third magnet being forced back into > the spiral but they should contribute something to the > system. > > Steve > > --- HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > Helmut and all, > > I got to thinking, why don't the magnets in the > > magnetic Wankel demagnetize? > > They are in repulsion! Is it just because of the > > iron? See attached gif. > > Butch > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Messages archives at : > > http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ > > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to > > jlnlabs-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > JLN Labs web site at: > > http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > In the market for computer hardware or software? > > Compare prices on > > more that 100,000 products at CNET.com. Get all the > > latest news, > > reviews and prices! > > http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1614 > > > > > > > > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document > > Vault > > -- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/jlnlabs/?m=1 > > > > > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/gif name=WANKEL.gif > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. > Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Messages archives at : > http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to jlnlabs-unsubscribe@egroups.com > JLN Labs web site at: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws. > http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1701 > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 7 04:12:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA16976; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 04:12:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 04:12:28 -0800 Message-ID: <384CF961.DA552DA2@harti.com> Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 13:11:13 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Helmut =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=F6bkes?= , jlnlabs@egroups.com, Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , JNaudin509@aol.com Subject: Re: [jlnlabs] Magnetic Wankel magnets don't demagnetize? References: <0.3e7483bf.257d4313@aol.com> <384C4AE3.EFC5986B@harti.com> <000901bf4097$81292560$0173a8c0@terra> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"H3f6t3.0.994.icFJu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13125 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Helmut Göbkes schrieb: > > Hi Stefan > > No, the NdFeB magnets doesn´t heat up during the run. > They stay simply at ambient temperature, they also > do not cool down... > (as some inventers say to prove that their device is OE...) > possibly my unit had simply to less free energy > to cool down or heat up... > Up to now, i have no idea whats happend about demagnetizing. > I assume that i have made any mistakes in handling them ? > > Is is possible that the strong compensating (repelling) fields > demagnetize them? If this is true, the idea of GMF is dead... > > Helmut Hi Helmut , which magnets did demagnetize ? All of the rotor magnets or only the one stator magnet ? I could guess, if it are also all the rotor magnets, that the position of the magnets inside the PVC tube is not ideal, cause they are working against each other. You have stated, that magnets outside the tube stacked onto an iron surface sheet put around the tube didnot work with your current mechanical stator design. It is much advised to use a metal sheet as the base for the rotor magnets, so their magnetic field will not repel each other so much. Maybe this could be simulated with Quickfield to see, what the best GMF would be in what construction... Maybe Jean Louis Nausdin could help, cause he already worked with Quickfield in the Howard Johnson motor analysis with Quickfield a lot... -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 7 04:19:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA19091; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 04:19:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 04:19:36 -0800 Message-ID: <384CFB0F.9EF2F5EB@harti.com> Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 13:18:23 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jlnlabs@egroups.com, "Helmut =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=F6bkes?=" , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: [jlnlabs] Re: Magnetic Wankel magnets don't demagnetize? References: <0.784e7c3a.257d3e71@aol.com> <001c01bf4099$507d8300$0173a8c0@terra> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"72e703.0.Cg4.OjFJu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13126 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Helmut Göbkes schrieb: > > Hi Butch, > > the difference and similarities between the designs are interesting. > It uses a electric timed coil to overcome the repelling on the top. > IMHO we can use this design also with the GMF principle on top > to overcome repelling to make them running. > In my GMF motor design, i used single magnets, spaced > by about the half distance from the size of the magnets. > > In the Magnetic wankel design, all magnets are close together, > without an airgap. > Maybe this is the reason for my demagnetizing problem. > in my design, i have between magnets a interuption of the > continous field and therefor a mechanical "hump", wich gives > (maybe) the magnets a mechanical shock. Helmut, did it shake a lot during the run ? Did it vibrate a lot ? Maybe the mechanical shocks are really the bad things and the cause for the demagnetisation ? > Bet idea to prove this, to built a rotor with magnets without > any distance between them. But in this case, i had problems > to get magnets with the correct shape. Maybe we can prove the > GMF principle with a linear design in this case better. > I have to think about that. Maybe you can put on each rotor magnet also a small iron flux core and this way lead the flux better into the desired direction ! When we worked earlier on a linear PM^2 design we had the best effects when we used on both stator and rotor magnets always iron flux cores. We had a pretty good TOMI like unit which went out of the field at the ending of the stator track, but the input into the track was still too energy inefficient with this TOMI like roller. > regards > Helmut > -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 7 08:21:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA18807; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:20:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:20:50 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <0.e49067a7.257e8dd9@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:20:41 EST Subject: Has anyone downloaded video? To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"LPgnd3.0.hb4.XFJJu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13127 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, I wanted to find out if anyone has downloaded the balance fixture video and if they were able to view and hear it ok. If anyone has, please send a note to me direct. Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 7 09:17:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA06910; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:17:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:17:03 -0800 Message-ID: <384D415A.1463@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 12:18:18 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: DISCLAIMER References: <384C2684.783D@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aUvnF2.0.oh1.E4KJu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13128 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear list members, I did not write this article... I only edited it for clarity. Nor have I seen this device working. However, I did speak with a person at the 1998 Exotic Research Conference from Utah, with a group of his associates that claimed to have built this type of device. This guy stated that they did not know how to convert the x-rays to electrcity. He said that the device was very dangerous and hard to control. It was stated to have wiped out computer hardrives within miles of the operating device. The article that I have posted seems to answer the conversion problem. I have no other information on this device at this time. If I had the time I would set-up this device and use a lithium niobate crystal as the target. I would also use electrodes that generate a thermoelectric effect when heated. If any of you have a nitrogen laser this device should be easy enough to validate. Please share your results with the rest of us. -Bruce A. Perreault freeNRG list member wrote: > > On Mon, 06 Dec 1999 16:11:33 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > > >Dear list members, > > > > > >Here is the information that I promised to > >post once it was received... > > > > > >http://www.nuenergy.org/k.htm > > Hi Bruce, > > The fact that He-6 decays by beta emission to Li-6 naturally, with the > release of 3.5 MeV should tell you that you won't get the reverse process > to work (i.e. Li-6 -> He-6 ), without putting 3.5 MeV in. A UV photon just > isn't going to do it. If you have actually seen evidence of such a process, > then I respectfully suggest that you may have been mistaken as to the nature > of the actual reaction taking place. Perhaps you could make the actual > experiment and the results public, so that others could also chip in their > opinions as to what might be happening. > > Best Regards, > > (UNDISCLOSED) > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 7 11:55:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA03146; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:55:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:55:04 -0800 Message-ID: <384D5F2F.E2E9474A@harti.com> Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 20:25:35 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jlnlabs@egroups.com, Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: New: van Platen overunity centrifuge article X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <82iaov$tahr@eGroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BUt8T3.0.1n.OOMJu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13129 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A new article from Dieter Bauer about the first law and the van Platen cycle is on the net ! It can be reached over the theory page overunity-server at http://www.overunity.de/theory.htm or directly http://www.overunity.de/firstlaw/firstlaw.htm or is available as Zip-package (recommended !) at http://www.overunity.de/firstlaw/firstlaw.zip The downloaded Zip File should be unpacked in a own directory. It contains ~150 files (427 KBytes). The article goes over ca. 40 pages ! Abstract: The article represents the first law as abstract mathematical definition to describe cyclic processes. Acc. to Dieter Bauer it is a definition and has nothing to do whether a quantity like energy can be measured balanced experimentally. Furthermore the van Platen cycle is presented. The general thermodynamical theory applicable is written down and applied to a (quite lenghty) Bender equation of state describing a mixture. The main line of the calculation of the developed calculation program is explained. The van Platen cycle is reduced to a parametric rotator cycle The results contain calculated profiles of pressure, concentration and spec. volume versus the radius of a centrifuge. In effect a overunity cycle seems to be possible, but in the range, where the calculation was applied, the efficiency is quite small compared with mechanic systems as presented at http://www.overunity.de/rotator/rotator.htm -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 7 17:25:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA24825; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 17:24:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 17:24:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 17:24:31 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Indoor Fountains In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ObTNB2.0.o36.KDRJu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13130 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 6 Dec 1999, Me wrote: > > Sounds like ultrasonics to me. Does anyone know where to get > > one of these fog makers? I would like to combine one of these > > with my carbon electrolysis chamber. I have some links on "touch the clouds" page. American Science and Surplus sells these ultrasonic foggers. http://www.amasci.com/clouds.html#humi ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 8 07:18:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA12447; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:18:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:18:28 -0800 From: dave.tingley@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:19:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Indoor Fountains Message-ID: <19991208.101922.271.0.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-6,8 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"sa8X93.0.O23.4RdJu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13131 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Wal-mart or any other department store has ultrasonic humidifiers for $20-30 Dave ============================================ dave.tingley@juno.com http://dave_tingley.tripod.com The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 8 10:07:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA07492; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:06:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:06:54 -0800 Message-ID: <384E9E69.7115@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 13:07:37 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy2@listbot.com CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: Here is the UV Laser Plans,,,,I'm sure this was re-done,,,,,,,] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"XMD3w.0.vq1.zufJu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13132 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Message-ID: <384E9E3D.1166@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 13:06:53 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons Subject: Re: Here is the UV Laser Plans,,,,I'm sure this was re-done,,,,,,, References: <000901bf418f$8ed4c220$83570418@Gary.ocnsd1.sdca.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary, We love it! -BAP Gary Young wrote: > > Nu Energy Horizons - http://www.nuenergy.org > from the amature scientist article years ago in Scientific > American,,,,,the discription given in the article that Bruce supplied > was basically the same wording used to describe the beam effect of > this unit,,,,it will produce about 100 pulses a second,,,,but the > power could be agmented and also the length of the unit up to one > meter,,,,but no more as the traveling wave discharge effect will be > lost at that point. A scale up of this can be done by using higher > voltage and a wider gap with heavier foil for plates in the tube, but > you will have to use home made plates for the capacitor board using > plexiglass or glass,,,,and a round version could also be buit like a > cannon,,,,,,you don't need the glass microscope plates for > windows,,,,the original plans called for clear plexigalss ends,,,,and > your vaccume in your tube will be 100 tore dry nitrogen. Hope you > like it! Gary (:-) > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 8 10:15:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA08686; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:14:17 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:14:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <384E9F99.6693@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 13:12:41 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: boney16@hotmail.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: Tesla Patents References: <19991207191537.60636.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GPtUW.0.d72.t_fJu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13133 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Joseph, The dates may be confused by Barnes and Noble because there is a file date and the actual date that the patent was issued. They do not sell the British and Canadian Patents. I was the one that uncovered these patents. The Belgrad Musium does not even have the complete lists. -BAP Joseph Lastella Jr. wrote: > > dear bruce, > > My name is Joseph LaStella I have received your complete set of tesla > patents on cd-rom from exotic research.I know that you did extensive > research on getting these patents on cd-rom. I have ran across another > scource from another website.They are saying that barnes and noble has a > book with most of all patents of nikola tesla. I have printed that up and > compared that to yours in which i have printed from your website. Hear comes > the question your listing and barnes and noble don't match correctly the > years match up expect the months and days, the patents numbers are the same > but the month and days are wrong, I will probably say that yours is quit > correct but the barnes and noble don't mix and match these are only the U.S. > patents only that I know of right now. I think that barnes and noble need to > research that book more before they publish something like that,please > respond back to my e-mail address and see what is going on with these > patents. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 8 10:14:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA10625; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:14:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:14:27 -0800 Message-ID: <384EA051.1E3C@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 13:15:45 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: Tesla Patents] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"3twR-2.0.rb2.30gJu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13134 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Received: from lbmail8.listbot.com (lbmail8.listbot.com [204.71.191.6]) by mail1.fcgnetworks.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA28545 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:11:57 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 12494 invoked by uid 108); 8 Dec 1999 18:11:56 -0000 Mailing-List: ListBot mailing list contact nuenergy-help@listbot.com Delivered-To: mailing list nuenergy@listbot.com Reply-To: "Nu Energy Horizons" Received: (qmail 17096 invoked from network); 8 Dec 1999 18:11:13 -0000 Received: from mail2.fcgnetworks.net (208.210.86.12) by lb4.listbot.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 1999 18:11:13 -0000 Received: from mail1.fcgnetworks.net (root@mail1.fcgnetworks.net [208.210.86.6]) by mail2.fcgnetworks.net (8.9.2/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA27654; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:11:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from isis (man18-pool-20.fcgnetworks.net [204.97.234.228]) by mail1.fcgnetworks.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA28430; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:11:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <384E9F99.6693@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 13:12:41 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: boney16@hotmail.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: Tesla Patents References: <19991207191537.60636.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nu Energy Horizons - http://www.nuenergy.org Joseph, The dates may be confused by Barnes and Noble because there is a file date and the actual date that the patent was issued. They do not sell the British and Canadian Patents. I was the one that uncovered these patents. The Belgrad Musium does not even have the complete lists. -BAP Joseph Lastella Jr. wrote: > > dear bruce, > > My name is Joseph LaStella I have received your complete set of tesla > patents on cd-rom from exotic research.I know that you did extensive > research on getting these patents on cd-rom. I have ran across another > scource from another website.They are saying that barnes and noble has a > book with most of all patents of nikola tesla. I have printed that up and > compared that to yours in which i have printed from your website. Hear comes > the question your listing and barnes and noble don't match correctly the > years match up expect the months and days, the patents numbers are the same > but the month and days are wrong, I will probably say that yours is quit > correct but the barnes and noble don't mix and match these are only the U.S. > patents only that I know of right now. I think that barnes and noble need to > research that book more before they publish something like that,please > respond back to my e-mail address and see what is going on with these > patents. ______________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, write to nuenergy-unsubscribe@listbot.com ______________________________________________________________________ Shorten the distance between you and your customers, with Internet Keywords powered by RealNames! Internet Keywords eliminate the need to remember complicated web addresses. Customers use the real names of your company, products, or services to get to you r site. http://www.listbot.com/links/realnames From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 8 10:23:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA15952; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:23:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:23:36 -0800 Message-ID: <384EA270.28C0@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 13:24:48 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: What do you think? References: <384CB128.4CCC@idirect.com> <384D4391.4026@cyberportal.net> <384DFA51.568F@idirect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Pyoe-1.0.9v3.d8gJu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13135 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave wrote: > > Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > > > > Dave, > > I do not think that it is a great idea to use cesium. > > This guy is on the right track. :) > > -BAP > ........................................................ > RE: Website: http://members.xoom.com/AltEnerTech/ > > Hi again Bruce! > > Could you please elaborate on what you replied? It is a simple matter that the cesium is not a good thing to inhale if there is a slight leak. The design seems sound enough. > > If you agree with that inventor's claim, could something different > be occuring within the Ion device to cause the results? Different? In what regards? > > Also, what are you doing these days? I just completed my Year 2000 speech. It is sure to set some peoples asses on fire. :) I have a fellow ISIS member coming up in a couple of weeks to assist in moving the projects along. Things are sure looking up these days. > > How are OU projects coming along? I never say "over-unity." The correct phrase should be super-unity. Once a new standard that we call 100% is found then the so called 95% effecient devices, etc... take a few notches in percent down the old latter. As for the super-unity stuff we are making progress at a phenomenal rate. Next year is looking pretty darn good. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 8 19:43:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA20969; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 19:42:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 19:42:45 -0800 Message-ID: <384F24E7.816EC8E@harti.com> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 04:41:27 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: jlnlabs@egroups.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jlnlabs@egroups.com, Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: NEW Gif from Goebkes Magnet motor X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yjqF41.0.X75.rKoJu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13136 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, as I spoke the last evening with Helmut Goebkes again on the phone he told me more about the magnet arragement of his permanent magnet motor. I edited his drawings to show the permanent magnet field orientations here: http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot4.gif Please see also the older GIFs as reference: http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot1.gif http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot2.gif http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot3.gif First working permanent magnet motor principle. Thanks to Helmut Goebkes for posting these drawings ! Regards, Stefan. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 8 23:38:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA06176; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 23:38:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 23:38:42 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 21:38:35 -1000 Subject: Re: NEW Gif from Goebkes Magnet motor From: Rick Monteverde To: freenrg Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <384F24E7.816EC8E@harti.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lj7IO1.0.PW1.1orJu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13137 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: on 12/8/99 5:41 PM, Stefan Hartmann at harti@harti.com wrote: > Hi, > as I spoke the last evening with Helmut Goebkes again > on the phone he told me more about the > magnet arragement of his permanent magnet motor. > > I edited his drawings to show the permanent magnet > field orientations here: > http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot4.gif > > Please see also the older GIFs as reference: > > http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot1.gif > http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot2.gif > http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot3.gif > > First working permanent magnet motor principle. > Thanks to Helmut Goebkes for posting these drawings ! > > Regards, Stefan. I don't believe the claim that this motor works. It seems to me that the red herring here is the so called "neutral zone". It doesn't matter that there is an engineered NZ. The gradient the magnet sees as it approaches the NZ is just the exact opposite of the gradient that brought it there - net zero. So the first mid point energywise is somewhere just behind the NZ in the attraction zone, and the two sections of that attraction zone, although of very different length and/or attraction curve profile, have net zero energy requirements to get through them both in one pass. It's like the ramp of a SMOT - the pull into the long attraction zone is equal to the *back* pull from this region as you approach the NZ. It's the *back* pull as you approach the NZ that gets you. Does it matter how the NZ is engineered? No. *Any* trip from stronger pull to lesser pull results in a pull back towards the stronger pull. Doesn't matter how you cause that pull become less strong, unless you input energy doing it, which of course defeats the purpose. Then you have the same situation with the second "repelling" section - the magnet has to go uphill away from the NZ energywise to get into this zone of repulsion, and there the story is exactly the same: energy in = energy out. There's the second energy hill, with its mid point again close in by the NZ. And again it doesn't matter that there is geometric assymetry, because the energy requirement will sum up equally on both sides anyhow. A platter with some rim mass on very good bearings will spin for several minutes if given a good wind up or spin. Don't be fooled by claims for this stuff. My mind is open for the possibility that one of these things actually will work, but it has to be accompanied by proof. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 9 05:43:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA10266; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 05:43:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 05:43:28 -0800 Message-ID: <384FB281.719A4668@imaginativa.cl> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 10:45:37 -0300 From: Felix Meyer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: NEW Gif from Goebkes Magnet motor References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8H1c-2.0.FW2.08xJu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13138 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde schrieb: > > .... snip > I don't believe the claim that this motor works. > >... Hi Rick, dont say that, because the motor may actually work and operate some time, ... but only some time, because it works like the energy of a spring, that you compress and by expanding the spring you can use the energy that was used for compression. This is - simplified - the energy that makes the motor work. > Don't be fooled by claims for this stuff. My mind is open for the > possibility that one of these things actually will work, but it has to be > accompanied by proof. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI I am with you what you say in the last sentence Felix From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 9 08:13:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA31523; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:13:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:13:22 -0800 Message-ID: <384FD4D3.CCF0A32D@harti.com> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 17:12:03 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: NEW Gif from Goebkes Magnet motor X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <384FB281.719A4668@imaginativa.cl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ar2UT.0.Si7.YKzJu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13139 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well guys, we will see. Helmut told me yeasterday in the phone call with him, that he will send me a couple of pics soon from the actual device. He is currently pretty busy with his job and don´t has much time to work on it , and he still waits for a few new ordered parts to test the 2 rotor version. He said, that the motor did run without much vibration and that only the rotor magnets did discharge, not the stator magnets. The rotor magnets did just have the strength of normal ferrite magnets after the 5 to 8 minutes run and there was a real torque on the shaft, when he tried to stop it, so it was not the stored rotation energy. It also almost started by itself and accelerated to 120 RPM. I guess, if one would also use a different rotor design with iron jokes on this, the discharge could be overcome ! Best regards, Stefan. http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot4.gif Felix Meyer schrieb: > > Rick Monteverde schrieb: > > > > .... snip > > > I don't believe the claim that this motor works. > > > >... > > Hi Rick, > > dont say that, because the motor may actually work and operate > some time, ... but only some time, because it works like > the energy of a spring, that you compress and by expanding the > spring you can use the energy that was used for compression. > This is - simplified - the energy that makes the motor work. > > > Don't be fooled by claims for this stuff. My mind is open for the > > possibility that one of these things actually will work, but it has to be > > accompanied by proof. > > > > - Rick Monteverde > > Honolulu, HI > > I am with you what you say in the last sentence > > Felix -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 9 08:23:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA00407; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:23:27 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:23:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <384FD68C.A67E3331@harti.com> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 17:19:24 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: jlnlabs@egroups.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Quickfield Simulation anyone ? Re: NEW Gif from Goebkes Magnet motor X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <384FB281.719A4668@imaginativa.cl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aXjhX.0.G6.zTzJu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13140 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot4.gif Has anybody has got some free time to simulate this thing in Quickfield ? Then there could be analyzed, if there is a force vector if you measure around the stator with Quickfield with a surface integral... (in Quickfield you can draw a line and see, if a force vector exits along this surface integral) Maybe there is also the "blue hole" at the right location to propell the rotor ! I just don´t have the spare time to do this right now... Regards, Stefan. >Well guys, >we will see. >Helmut told me yeasterday in the phone call with him, >that he will send me a couple of pics soon >from the actual device. >He is currently pretty busy with his job and >don´t has much time to work on it , >and he still waits for a few new ordered parts >to test the 2 rotor version. >He said, that the motor did run without much vibration and that only the rotor magnets did discharge, not the stator magnets. The rotor magnets did just have the strength of normal ferrite magnets after the 5 to 8 minutes run and there was a real torque on the shaft, when he tried to stop it, so it was not the stored rotation energy. It also almost started by itself and accelerated to 120 RPM. I guess, if one would also use a different rotor design with iron jokes on this, the discharge could be overcome ! Best regards, Stefan. Felix Meyer schrieb: > > Rick Monteverde schrieb: > > > > .... snip > > > I don't believe the claim that this motor works. > > > >... > > Hi Rick, > > dont say that, because the motor may actually work and operate > some time, ... but only some time, because it works like > the energy of a spring, that you compress and by expanding the > spring you can use the energy that was used for compression. > This is - simplified - the energy that makes the motor work. > > > Don't be fooled by claims for this stuff. My mind is open for the > > possibility that one of these things actually will work, but it has to be > > accompanied by proof. > > > > - Rick Monteverde > > Honolulu, HI > > I am with you what you say in the last sentence > > Felix -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Messages archives at : http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ To unsubscribe, send a blank email to jlnlabs-unsubscribe@egroups.com JLN Labs web site at: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Meet your Match! CLICK HERE to go to One & Only Internet Personals http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1705 -- Check out your group's private Chat room -- http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=jlnlabs&m=1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 9 09:07:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA21582; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:07:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:07:50 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991210010533.00799180@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 01:05:33 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Re: Quickfield Simulation anyone ? In-Reply-To: <384FD68C.A67E3331@harti.com> References: <384FB281.719A4668@imaginativa.cl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"iVjAG2.0.7H5.b7-Ju"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13141 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan wrote: >Has anybody has got some free time to simulate >this thing in Quickfield ? >Then there could be analyzed, if there is a >force vector if you measure around the >stator with Quickfield with a surface integral... >(in Quickfield you can draw a line and see, if a force vector exits >along this surface integral) Don't bother wasting your time. All the equations that are used in the finite element analysis routines and simulations are energy conserving by design. If Quickfield finds excess energy then there is a software bug! In fact one of the best ways to test this type of software is by tracking the total energy in and out and making sure that none is being lost or gained by arithmetic overflow or other bugs. "Free energy" needs new physics. You won't find it in the well known equations because all the equations are based on and derived assuming energy conservation. One can only hope that there is something like an unexpected coupling between a suddenly collapsing magnetic field and the sea of neutrinos passing by - that somehow gives an extra bit of energy which hasn't been noticed by previous researchers. Carefully done experiments and measurements of unusual configurations are one's best hope in this area, not conventional calculations. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 9 10:18:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA18464; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:18:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:18:33 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <0.dce44432.25814c6f@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:18:23 EST Subject: Drawing for comment To: energy21@listbot.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_0.dce44432.25814c6f_boundary" X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"nSVjB.0.KW4.u9_Ju"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13142 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --part1_0.dce44432.25814c6f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Comments please, good or bad welcome. 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FY7KGy7aE143shPi/svgHm7i6E0ivDNPi13NKb7f6z3ZnXaR5rPO773CLRLkAWTjkozjzdTf kL3fZPrRHKFSPl7iH17JFHnQnz2qYTlQbyjYUp7IgKyOi9y1k5rb/1jma9nl+Zjmk8iDFi7m AF4xHgXloIjmMhPOQQznBv6qwSzMJOY949M41D1ojUJN2MJ8xyqY1NIN3oq+6Ize6I7+6JC+ qQEBAAA7 --part1_0.dce44432.25814c6f_boundary-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 9 11:37:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA21880; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:37:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:37:26 -0800 Message-ID: <385004A3.ECBECE2A@harti.com> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 20:36:03 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: HLafonte@aol.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com Subject: Re: Drawing for comment X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <0.dce44432.25814c6f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"om6uz2.0.nL5.sJ0Ku"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13143 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Butch, magnet versus magnet never works ! Always shield the direct-fields via iron jokes ! This is the trick to succeed ! Regards, Stefan. HLafonte@aol.com schrieb: > > Comments please, good or bad welcome. > Thanks, > Butch LaFonte > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > [Image] -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 9 11:44:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA25239; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:44:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:44:46 -0800 Message-ID: <38500661.B5B264DB@harti.com> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 20:43:29 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jlnlabs@egroups.com, Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: [jlnlabs] Re: Steve Sullivan Toroidal generator patent ! X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <00b501bf4276$bb58db00$989c9e3e@berens> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"L6f_S1.0.BA6.jQ0Ku"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13144 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I got all the pages via this service. The files are *.img format, which is really a PDF file type ! Use Acrobat reader to open them ! It is the patent from Steve Sullivan. You can find some small info on my http://www.overunity.com/update.htm page under Toroidal OU generator claim. It is really a very interesting concept. This just works only as a generator, BUT NOT as a motor ! So there is no BACK drag coupling and so it can go over 100 % efficiency ! -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. Here my help ( sorry, but german server - i explain): 1. go to : http://wo.dips.org/dips/de/de/dips4.htm 2. and search for "WO9919962" at field "Veröffentlichungsnummer" 3. click on button "suchen" (search) 4. click on patent number 5. click on button "erste seite" (first page) 6. the click on button ">>" for the following pages hope it helps, Olaf Berens - Germany - -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 9 12:00:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA32468; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:59:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:59:53 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <0.4e94052f.2581642c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:59:40 EST Subject: Fwd: (To Steffan)Drawing for comment To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, newman-l@emachine.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_0.4e94052f.2581642c_boundary" X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"5v5f9.0.Cx7.ve0Ku"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13145 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --part1_0.4e94052f.2581642c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_0.4e94052f.2581642c_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: HLafonte@aol.com From: HLafonte@aol.com Full-name: HLafonte Message-ID: <0.3977559c.25816158@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:47:36 EST Subject: Re:(To Steffan)Drawing for comment To: harti@harti.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 In a message dated 12/9/99 1:37:24 PM Central Standard Time, harti@harti.com writes: > Hi Butch, > magnet versus magnet never works ! > Steffan, look at my video, the rare earth super strong magnets go together smooth as butter. With pole face reshaping they could be perfect profiles, equal but opposite. Do you agree? Butch --part1_0.4e94052f.2581642c_boundary-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 9 12:26:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA25201; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:15:19 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:15:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38500BEF.2B0A1574@harti.com> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 21:07:11 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jlnlabs@egroups.com, HLafonte@aol.com, Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: [jlnlabs] Fwd: (To Stefan)Drawing for comment References: <0.4e94052f.2581642c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"flPWm3.0.g96.Jt0Ku"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13146 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Butch, yes, but you never win any energy with this ! You need iron cores or jokes in front of the magnets to "rectify" some flux changes, so if domains inside the iron material change, there might be some "rectification" effect, so in one direction there is more force than into the other. So to speak a "positive hysteresis" effect ! Just try the design from Helmut as shown in http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot4.gif and let me know, if you can replicate it. Be sure to have the "neutral zone" directly at the center line (in line with the axis), so you will see an accelleration of the rotor. Regards, Stefan. > > Betreff: Re:(To Steffan)Drawing for comment > Datum: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:47:36 EST > Von: HLafonte@aol.com > An: harti@harti.com > > In a message dated 12/9/99 1:37:24 PM Central Standard Time, harti@harti.com > writes: > > > Hi Butch, > > magnet versus magnet never works ! > > > Steffan, look at my video, the rare earth super strong magnets go together > smooth as butter. With pole face reshaping they could be perfect profiles, > equal but opposite. Do you agree? > Butch -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 9 13:05:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA29732; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:05:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:05:35 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <0.6c07dc02.25817398@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 16:05:28 EST Subject: Drawing 2 for comment To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, newman-l@emachine.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_0.6c07dc02.25817398_boundary" X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"Qq_RM1.0.TG7.Vc1Ku"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13147 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --part1_0.6c07dc02.25817398_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Comments, Steffan, others? --part1_0.6c07dc02.25817398_boundary 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1999 13:38:41 -0800 Message-ID: <38502117.9DA02712@harti.com> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 22:37:27 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: HLafonte@aol.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, newman-l@emachine.com Subject: Re: Drawing 2 for comment X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <0.6c07dc02.25817398@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MUWLR.0.Rm3.W52Ku"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13148 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Butch, this looks already much better. The only problem I see is, that at the top you have the very strong attraction from stator-North to rotor-South, so at this point the rotor will stick and stay there. Look again at Helmut´s design with the "Neutral Zone" at the "top" (in his case the center line !) You have first a small attraction of the rotor going to Zero at the center line and then the push-away above the center line via the repelling forces from the leverage ! So the trick at the "regaussing zone" is not to have a strong field, but a Zero field (Neutral zone !) Helmut told me, that this is the only way he achieved rotation at all ! It also worked with just the lower iron core (the one down from the center line) , but then the speed was much lower ! http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot1.gif http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot2.gif http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot3.gif http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot4.gif HLafonte@aol.com schrieb: > > Comments, Steffan, others? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > [Image] -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 9 14:13:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA31883; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:13:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:13:26 -0800 Message-ID: <384C4E28.B9764297@ctv.es> Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 01:00:40 +0100 From: Vicente Jose Ramos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [es] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jlnlabs@egroups.com CC: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: NEW Gif from Goebkes Magnet motor References: <384F24E7.816EC8E@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2nCkp3.0.2o7.6c2Ku"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13149 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all I still without understand how a system without any moving part (except rotor) and without any electric unbalance can work. This must be a balanced system. I'm not happy with this thinking but is that I think... Stefan Hartmann escribió: > Hi, > as I spoke the last evening with Helmut Goebkes again > on the phone he told me more about the > magnet arragement of his permanent magnet motor. > > I edited his drawings to show the permanent magnet > field orientations here: > http://www.overunity.com/goebkes/magmot4.gif From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 9 14:22:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA04728; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:22:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:22:26 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <0.c81f8f31.25818593@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:22:11 EST Subject: Just had a VERY interesting idea To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_0.c81f8f31.25818593_boundary" X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"HOxdp1.0.m91.Xk2Ku"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13150 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --part1_0.c81f8f31.25818593_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Look at the Attached drawing. The system has TWO aspects doing work, but you only need to send a short pulse to ONE to get the work from the other to be overunity! The top system is pulling. The bottom is pulling also. When the bottom system comes to the repulsion magnet you send a short pulse to the coil and neutralize the repulsion force. This is NOT OVERunity for the bottom system, it is unity. But the top system now is able to get free of it's cog at the end of the wedge because the bottom repulsion magnet comes into play after the pulse stops. The top and bottom systems are now free to leave the wedge and the work of the top system is available for work. Think about this good before replying. Thanks, Butch --part1_0.c81f8f31.25818593_boundary Content-Type: image/gif; name="1004.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="1004.gif" R0lGODlhPwJ6AfcAAAAAAAAA/729vf8AAP////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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Resent-Message-ID: <"Ag8Cj1.0.wb6.5a3Ku"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13151 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: HLafonte@aol.com To: energy21@listbot.com ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; jlnlabs@egroups.com Date: Thursday, December 09, 1999 3:23 PM Subject: Just had a VERY interesting idea >Look at the Attached drawing. The system has TWO aspects doing work, but you >only need to send a short pulse to ONE to get the work from the other to be >overunity! The top system is pulling. The bottom is pulling also. When the >bottom system comes to the repulsion magnet you send a short pulse to the >coil and neutralize the repulsion force. This is NOT OVERunity for the bottom >system, it is unity. But the top system now is able to get free of it's cog >at the end of the wedge because the bottom repulsion magnet comes into play >after the pulse stops. The top and bottom systems are now free to leave the >wedge and the work of the top system is available for work. >Think about this good before replying. >Thanks, >Butch > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 9 15:24:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA29062; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:24:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:24:20 -0800 Message-ID: <00f801bf429b$d9b14220$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: Just had a VERY interesting idea Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:19:32 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"rN8Ac.0.x57.Ze3Ku"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13152 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ( oops, here's the text ) I've always thought that the Magnetic Wankel was over-unity and your Idea is similar. Here's my logic: 1 - a normal magnetic motor with wound field and armature has a certain efficiency 2 - a permanent magnet motor with a wound armature and a permanent magnet field, logically should have a higher efficiency because the field is doing the same thing without any current needed.. 3 - a design with permanent magnet armature and field could be over-unity because the extremely short ( if designed right ) pulse needed to commutate ( or reset for the next cycle ) could be smaller than the work done by the magnets. My theory about how this could be is that the pulse from the electromagnet not only pushes the rotor over the hump, making it a motor, but it also reduces the external field of the permanent magnet at the same time, making it the hump smaller to get over, causing it to be an over-unity motor. Another contributor could be if the coil was wrapped around the permanent magnet, to reduce or counter the field, the current kicked back when the coil was de-energized would recover part of the energy just expended. ( I'm not expecting more, just some which may cause over-unity. ) Scott Becker -----Original Message----- From: HLafonte@aol.com To: energy21@listbot.com ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; jlnlabs@egroups.com Date: Thursday, December 09, 1999 3:23 PM Subject: Just had a VERY interesting idea >Look at the Attached drawing. The system has TWO aspects doing work, but you >only need to send a short pulse to ONE to get the work from the other to be >overunity! The top system is pulling. The bottom is pulling also. When the >bottom system comes to the repulsion magnet you send a short pulse to the >coil and neutralize the repulsion force. This is NOT OVERunity for the bottom >system, it is unity. But the top system now is able to get free of it's cog >at the end of the wedge because the bottom repulsion magnet comes into play >after the pulse stops. The top and bottom systems are now free to leave the >wedge and the work of the top system is available for work. >Think about this good before replying. >Thanks, >Butch > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 9 17:14:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA07772; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:14:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:14:08 -0800 Message-ID: <005801bf42ab$80f8e7e0$d99a10cf@drosigno> Reply-To: "David Rosignoli" From: "David Rosignoli" To: References: <384FB281.719A4668@imaginativa.cl> <3.0.6.32.19991210010533.00799180@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Subject: Re: Quickfield Simulation anyone ? Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:11:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"7qkpS2.0.Lv1.WF5Ku"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13153 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Stefan wrote: > >Has anybody has got some free time to simulate > >this thing in Quickfield ? > >Then there could be analyzed, if there is a > >force vector if you measure around the > >stator with Quickfield with a surface integral... > >(in Quickfield you can draw a line and see, if a force vector exits > >along this surface integral) > > Don't bother wasting your time. All the equations that are > used in the finite element analysis routines and simulations > are energy conserving by design. If Quickfield finds excess > energy then there is a software bug! In fact one of the best > ways to test this type of software is by tracking the total > energy in and out and making sure that none is being lost or > gained by arithmetic overflow or other bugs. Yes! Finally, someone actually says this. It drives me crazy to see people over looking this point of fact. Using Quickfield is only good for determining if there is a violation of what you expect to see, and what is actually there. In that case, one could argue that the software, and possibly the finite element EM equations, is incorrect in modelling reality. Then, you must further analyze the situation. Immediately attacking the EM equations may not be the correct answer, if a more prosaic explanation is available (e.g., unaccounted for flux leakage). > "Free energy" needs new physics. You won't find it in the > well known equations because all the equations are based on > and derived assuming energy conservation. One can only hope > that there is something like an unexpected coupling between > a suddenly collapsing magnetic field and the sea of neutrinos > passing by - that somehow gives an extra bit of energy which > hasn't been noticed by previous researchers. Carefully done > experiments and measurements of unusual configurations are > one's best hope in this area, not conventional calculations. Excellant point. However, some of the new physics may just involve looking up the original equations and original papers. Too much research has already been done that people are overlooking. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 9 18:50:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA11186; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:50:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:50:42 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19991209192012.223f3d64@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 19:20:12 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Just had a VERY interesting idea In-Reply-To: <0.c81f8f31.25818593@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"CkKaN.0.ck2.2g6Ku"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13154 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Butch, At 05:22 PM 12/9/99 EST, you wrote: >Look at the Attached drawing. The system has TWO aspects doing work, but you >only need to send a short pulse to ONE to get the work from the other to be >overunity! The top system is pulling. The bottom is pulling also. When the >bottom system comes to the repulsion magnet you send a short pulse to the >coil and neutralize the repulsion force. This is NOT OVERunity for the bottom >system, it is unity. But the top system now is able to get free of it's cog >at the end of the wedge because the bottom repulsion magnet comes into play >after the pulse stops. The top and bottom systems are now free to leave the >wedge and the work of the top system is available for work. >Think about this good before replying. >Thanks, >Butch > >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\10041.gif" > I still don't see any "neutral" zone on the right. Won't the top magnet be attracted to the top wedge? As for as the bottom repulsion magnet the iron might form sort of a "neutral zone" so that there is not repulsion at all on the right, but added attraction (to the iron). Somehow I don't think this is what you meant, thought. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 10 10:17:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA26450; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:16:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:16:50 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <0.263d549a.25829d8a@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:16:42 EST Subject: No download required on balance video now To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"kEiX81.0.zS6.IEKKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13155 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Brett Nichols has fixed the balance fixture video/audio so that no download is needed. Just click on link. Researchwebsite or http://members.xoom.com/LNlabs/research.htm Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 10 11:44:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA26650; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:44:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:44:39 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <0.b65208c0.2582b21e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:44:30 EST Subject: Question on repulsion of electro-magnet To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"BfCAe1.0.JW6.dWLKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13156 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, Does anyone know for sure if when you take a permanent magnet and an electro-magnet and push them together is the repulsion mode, is there an increase in the electro-magnets coil current or is there a decrease, or no change in current. (The two have close to the same field strength and distribution pattern of flux before going into the repulsion mode) Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 10 12:08:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA03400; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:07:32 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:07:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <012501bf4349$221c0b00$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: Question on repulsion of electro-magnet Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:59:56 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"0conU1.0.0r.1sLKu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13157 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: That's a good question which calls for an experiment. My guess is that as long as you push them together and hold steady ( no dynamics ) that ohms law will prevail and there will no difference at all ( because transformers don't work on DC ). I don't have a setup to test it accurately though. Scott Becker -----Original Message----- From: HLafonte@aol.com To: energy21@listbot.com ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; jlnlabs@egroups.com Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 12:45 PM Subject: Question on repulsion of electro-magnet >Hi all, >Does anyone know for sure if when you take a permanent magnet and an >electro-magnet and push them together is the repulsion mode, is there an >increase in the electro-magnets coil current or is there a decrease, or no >change in current. (The two have close to the same field strength and >distribution pattern of flux before going into the repulsion mode) >Thanks, >Butch > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 10 12:14:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA05772; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:14:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:14:34 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <0.aa58b017.2582b91e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:14:22 EST Subject: Re: Question on repulsion of electro-magnet To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, energy21@listbot.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"9ISOX2.0.dP1.fyLKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13158 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 12/10/99 2:10:09 PM Central Standard Time, skot@fastbid.cc writes: > That's a good question which calls for an experiment. My guess is that as > long > as you push them together and hold steady ( no dynamics ) that ohms law will > prevail and there will no difference at all ( because transformers don't > work on > DC ). I don't have a setup to test it accurately though. > > Scott Becker Scott, I am looking at the dynamic period when the two are being pushed together. Any thoughts? Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 10 12:31:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA06197; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:30:47 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:30:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <013401bf434c$5bc3d740$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: Question on repulsion of electro-magnet Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:23:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"RIvc03.0.IW1.mBMKu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13159 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >> Scott Becker >Scott, I am looking at the dynamic period when the two are being pushed >together. Any thoughts? >Thanks, >Butch > There would be an inductive kick from the magnet's field reducing the field in the coil. The direction, I'm not sure. I think it would be the same as if you turned off the current and let the field collapse, if that's opposite the current before you turned it off, then there would be a reduction ( in your example ), and vise-versa. I never studied it inductors in any detail. Scott Becker From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 10 13:30:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA00334; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:30:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:30:31 -0800 Message-ID: <19991210213023.11122.qmail@nwcst313.netaddress.usa.net> Date: 10 Dec 99 16:30:23 EST From: Horace To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Re: Question on repulsion of electro-magnet] X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.4.0.33) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA32751 Resent-Message-ID: <"P9-y12.0.75.s3NKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13160 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If your coil windings had zero resistance and were shorted in a loop (or spiral), and in that loop would flow a current (I1), then the coil would behave as a permanent magnet (magnetic dipole) and the current would circulate in it forever. If you approached this energized coil with a permanent magnet or another source of magnetic flux in "repulsion mode", then the magnet would try to cancel the magnetic flux created by the coil. In other words the magnet would try to decrease (or reverse) the field created by the coil. The coil "wouldn't like that" and would attempt to change the flux it produces in such a way that the magnetic flux (aka. stream) through the coil would remain constant (the same as it was before) In order to do this the coil would have to increase the flux it generates to oppose the opposite "repulsing" flux generated by the magnet. In other words the coil would oppose the the "through-the-coil-flux" change. Consequently the current flowing in our hypothetical coil will INCREASE and the combined flux of the coil + magnet, through the coil will remain the same. In real word this increased current through the coil will quickly be "eaten up" by the resistance of the coil windings, and the coil will "give up" and allow its flux to be decreased and then reversed by the "repulsing" magnet. Any power supply hooked to a real coil will only try to recharge the current in the coil to the V/R limit. (V = voltage supplied by the power supply, R = resistence of the coil windings( With realworld coil, for a brief moment the current flowing in the coil will INCREASE when a "repulsing" magnet is approached. Conversely, for a brief moment the current flowing in the coil will DECREASE when a "attracting" magnet is approached. Just remember that the coil is an "conservatist" on the point of the magnetic flux that is flowing through it, and would like to keep it constant. If not for the resistance that "spoils" this conservative behavior, the coil would succeed. Does this help ? HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/10/99 2:10:09 PM Central Standard Time, skot@fastbid.cc > writes: > > > That's a good question which calls for an experiment. My guess is that as > > long > > as you push them together and hold steady ( no dynamics ) that ohms law > will > > prevail and there will no difference at all ( because transformers don't > > work on > > DC ). I don't have a setup to test it accurately though. > > > > Scott Becker > Scott, I am looking at the dynamic period when the two are being pushed > together. Any thoughts? > Thanks, > Butch ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 10 13:54:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA17394; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:54:06 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:54:06 -0800 (PST) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <0.70897ce1.2582cfab@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:50:35 EST Subject: [Re:to Horace, Question on repulsion of electro-magnet] To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"2txqo3.0.gF4.wPNKu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13161 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 12/10/99 3:33:12 PM Central Standard Time, horacex@usa.net writes: > Does this help ? Horace, That is exactly what I thought and wanted to hear. The part about the attraction magnet was my next question but you answered it already. Thanks for your time and effort, stay tuned, I have an idea on this. Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 10 14:23:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA18530; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:23:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:23:06 -0800 Message-ID: <19991210220344.19638.qmail@nw179.netaddress.usa.net> Date: 10 Dec 99 17:03:44 EST From: Horace To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Question on repulsion of electro-magnet] X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.4.0.33) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA18465 Resent-Message-ID: <"u8VDb3.0.CX4.8rNKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13162 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To see for yourself, Do the following experiment: -Take an AIR CORE (ideal coil has zillion windings, zero resistance, and small size), unfortunately zillion windings is not very possible with zero resistance and zero resistance in not very possible with thin wire. -Hook it up to a contant-voltage power supply (i.e. battery) through a small value current-sensing-resistor in series (ie. 0.1ohm). -Hook up an oscilloscope ACROSS the resistor (DC mode preferable) -Approach a magnet in "repulsion" mode to the coil (as quickly as possible) and look as the current briefly increases and then goes back to its I=V/R steady state. (Note: the higher the resistance of the coil-windings and the lower the number of windings in the coil - the shorter the current increase will be and you'll have to approach the magnet quicker to see any increase on the oscilloscope screen.) Do it and see for yourself, all it takes is a coil, magnet, 1 resistor and oscilloscope. Enjoy... HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > Hi all, > Does anyone know for sure if when you take a permanent magnet and an > electro-magnet and push them together is the repulsion mode, is there an > increase in the electro-magnets coil current or is there a decrease, or no > change in current. (The two have close to the same field strength and > distribution pattern of flux before going into the repulsion mode) > Thanks, > Butch ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 10 18:27:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA06123; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:27:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:27:23 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19991210191021.21174fd4@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:10:21 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [Question on repulsion of electro-magnet] In-Reply-To: <19991210220344.19638.qmail@nw179.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"y8IE41.0.aV1.BQRKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13163 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Horace, Butch and Dave, At 05:03 PM 12/10/99 EST, you wrote: > >To see for yourself, Do the following experiment: > >-Take an AIR CORE (ideal coil has zillion windings, zero resistance, and small >size), unfortunately zillion windings is not very possible with zero >resistance and zero resistance in not very possible with thin wire. > >-Hook it up to a contant-voltage power supply (i.e. battery) through a small >value current-sensing-resistor in series (ie. 0.1ohm). > >-Hook up an oscilloscope ACROSS the resistor (DC mode preferable) > >-Approach a magnet in "repulsion" mode to the coil (as quickly as possible) >and look as the current briefly increases and then goes back to its I=V/R >steady state. > Yes, I agree with you and Dave. You only need a power supply with a suitable meter for current, and the (steel core) coil. Watch the current as you move the magnet toward the coil. My power supply is a 5 volt, 1 Amp unit. It is very easy to do. If for some reason you don't want to think of Lenz' law, think of the coil doing work to repel the magnet, so the power supply has to supply the extra energy. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 10 23:47:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA25737; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 23:47:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 23:47:19 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <0.d0f1a6df.25835b7e@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 02:47:10 EST Subject: Ultra low energy electro/perm-magnet balance system To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"IPQhr1.0.vH6.66WKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13164 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, For comment, the attached drawing is a balance system that should when rotating, move past the electro-magnets poles with no resistance to turning as in an all permanent magnet balance system (see web site video/audio), and also not change to a large degree the total voltage/current at the energy storage or usage section. See posts on electro-magnet in repulsion on 12-9-99. Thanks, Butch LaFonte Researchwebsite From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 10 23:50:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA27889; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 23:50:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 23:50:57 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <0.296820fa.25835c55@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 02:50:45 EST Subject: Ultra low energy electro/perm-magnet balance system To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_0.296820fa.25835c55_boundary" X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"wLfCb3.0.Zp6.W9WKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13165 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --part1_0.296820fa.25835c55_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, For comment, the attached drawing is a balance system that should when rotating, move past the electro-magnets poles with no resistance to turning as in an all permanent magnet balance system (see web site video/audio), and also not change to a large degree the total voltage/current at the energy storage or usage section. See posts on electro-magnet in repulsion on 12-9-99. Thanks, Butch LaFonte Researchwebsite --part1_0.296820fa.25835c55_boundary Content-Type: image/gif; name="1006.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="1006.gif" R0lGODlhLgJlAfcAAAAAAAAA/729vf8AAP////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Ultra low energy electro/perm-magnet balance system In-Reply-To: <0.296820fa.25835c55@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Fl-lG2.0.R12.I-WKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13166 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Butch, At 02:50 AM 12/11/99 EST, you wrote: >Hi all, >For comment, the attached drawing is a balance system that should when >rotating, move past the electro-magnets poles with no resistance to turning >as in an all permanent magnet balance system (see web site video/audio), and >also not change to a large degree the total voltage/current at the energy >storage or usage section. See posts on electro-magnet in repulsion on 12-9-99. >Thanks, Can you explain your diode and energy storage units in more detail? In particular, from your previous question, the currents in the electromagnets will change when the rotating magnets approach. The sum of the currents may be the same for the attract and repelling coils, but for the approach, for example, the attraction will be less (less current)and the repulsion will be greater (greater current) so the unbalance will be twice as large as a single coil. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 05:20:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA09254; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 05:20:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 05:20:43 -0800 Message-ID: <19991211132604.17466.qmail@nwcst287.netaddress.usa.net> Date: 11 Dec 99 08:26:04 EST From: Horace To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Re: [Question on repulsion of electro-magnet]] X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.4.0.33) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id FAA09228 Resent-Message-ID: <"Xdvvr1.0.VG2.g-aKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13167 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In theory an ideal coil does NOT need an external power supply to "do work to repel the magnet". If zero-R coil is shorted in a loop (or spiral) and a magnet creating an opposing flux is aproached along the axis of the coil, the electric current in the windings of the coil will increase WITHOUT the aid of the power supply. In other words the extra current will NOT come from the power supply. If the resistance of the coil would really be zero than the increased current would not "die down" and would be maintained as long as the "repulsing" magnet was near. The lack of necessity to have power supply to observe current increase is easy to verify with large-strong perm. magnet + coil made with very thick wire (low R) and 100 windings or so + 0.01ohm current sensing resistor + oscilloscope. Dave Dameron wrote: > Hi Horace, Butch and Dave, > Yes, I agree with you and Dave. You only need a power supply with a > suitable meter for current, and the (steel core) coil. Watch the current as > you move the magnet toward the coil. My power supply is a 5 volt, 1 Amp > unit. It is very easy to do. If for some reason you don't want to think > of Lenz' law, think of the coil doing work to repel the magnet, so the > power supply has to supply the extra energy. > -Dave > >At 05:03 PM 12/10/99 EST, Horace wrote: > > > >To see for yourself, Do the following experiment: > > > >-Take an AIR CORE coil (ideal coil has zillion windings, zero resistance, and > small > >size), unfortunately zillion windings is not very possible with zero > >resistance and zero resistance in not very possible with thin wire. > > > >-Hook it up to a contant-voltage power supply (i.e. battery) through a small > >value current-sensing-resistor in series (ie. 0.1ohm). > > > >-Hook up an oscilloscope ACROSS the resistor (DC mode preferable) > > > >-Approach a magnet in "repulsion" mode to the coil (as quickly as possible) > >and look as the current briefly increases and then goes back to its I=V/R > >steady state. > > ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 10:17:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA15766; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:17:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:17:26 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <0.67d2c5da.2583ef1e@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:17:02 EST Subject: To Horace:The drawing I posted To: horacex@usa.net CC: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"HnEH23.0.9s3.sKfKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13168 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace, The drawing I posted showing the balance system turning against the electro-magnets, what I am after is this. Can the DECREASE in current of the attraction magnet, be offset by the INCREASE in current of the repulsion magnet and the current stay steady at the energy usage box? This box could have a light bulb in it for instance. Could the coils be built so that the rotor rotates thru equal but opposite force and no resistance to turning is experienced (as with my permanent magnet balance systems)? Also at the same time the voltage current stay the same at the light bulb due to the equal but opposite changes in the electro-magnets? What type of circuit would you see needed to make this possible? (I think I have the positive and negative terminals on the power supply backwards in the drawing.) In summary, I want to build a simple force cancellation system as in my video where I use only permanent magnets, but use electromagnets in combination with the permanent magnet rotor. At the same time I want to keep the voltage/current to stay steady to a degree at the light bulb in the circuit. The reason I need this free turning rotor will be shown later if this system will work as stated. This is a very important aspect to further development of a project. Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 12:40:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA23230; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:40:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:40:11 -0800 Message-ID: <3852B947.F587BF5C@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:51:19 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l Subject: H2 From Water Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Fo7X9.0.rg5.hQhKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13169 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I've figured out how to get unlimited H2 from water without violating any known laws. Did this by changing perception of problem and applying known laws to new perspective. Want to see the paper I wrote on it? Either allow me to post on list or e-mail me and I will send it direct. MJ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 12:56:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA28978; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:56:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:56:26 -0800 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: H2 From Water Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:04:29 -0500 Message-ID: <19991211210429765.AAA110@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"tCz2p.0.g47.vfhKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13170 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi All, > I've figured out how to get unlimited H2 from water without violating >any known laws. Did this by changing perception of problem and applying >known laws to new perspective. Want to see the paper I wrote on it? >Either allow me to post on list or e-mail me and I will send it direct. > MJ Sounds interesting. There is a limit to filesizes on the list, which I think is 40K. I'd like to see it, if nobody else does. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 13:06:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA01130; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:06:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:06:25 -0800 Message-ID: <3852BF6D.AEEFB770@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:17:33 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: H2 From Water References: <19991211210429765.AAA110@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jqFY93.0.ZH.HphKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13171 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Michael, I'll send it direct. It's big and in 7 parts so I'll just send you 5-7. Yhose are what I consider to be the important ones. MJ Michael T Huffman wrote: > >Hi All, > > I've figured out how to get unlimited H2 from water without violating > >any known laws. Did this by changing perception of problem and applying > >known laws to new perspective. Want to see the paper I wrote on it? > >Either allow me to post on list or e-mail me and I will send it direct. > > MJ > > Sounds interesting. There is a limit to filesizes on the list, which I > think is 40K. I'd like to see it, if nobody else does. > > Knuke > Michael T. Huffman > Huffman Technology Company > 1121 Dustin Drive > The Villages, Florida 32159 > (352)259-1276 > knuke@LCIA.COM > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 13:11:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA03577; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:11:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:11:27 -0800 Message-ID: <3852B25D.DC159640@telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:21:49 -0600 From: Don Adams Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: H2 From Water References: <3852B947.F587BF5C@csrlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sFzeX.0.kt._thKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13172 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'd like to see this as well Michael S. Johnston wrote: > Hi All, > I've figured out how to get unlimited H2 from water without violating > any known laws. Did this by changing perception of problem and applying > known laws to new perspective. Want to see the paper I wrote on it? > Either allow me to post on list or e-mail me and I will send it direct. > MJ -- *********************************************************** Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just... let it happen. -- Special Agent Dale Cooper ... ====================================================================== Don J.S. Adams, Overseer and Registered Agent for Domhnall C G N Adams - (Corporation Sole - Lawful Entity Name) RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 13:19:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA07366; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:19:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:19:36 -0800 Message-ID: <3852C27D.A4658455@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:30:38 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: energy21 , freenrg-l , jlnlabs Subject: [Fwd: Water] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5D163A5E02F1454021432718" Resent-Message-ID: <"w-a_N1.0._o1.e_hKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13173 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5D163A5E02F1454021432718 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------5D163A5E02F1454021432718 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from csrlink.net (pm3su3-44.uplink.net [209.173.85.141]) by uplink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00833 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:53:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3852BC62.347EA3AD@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:04:35 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "enki@csrlink.net" Subject: Water Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All,
   I can't believe the amount of negative response that I got by suggesting that we talk about using H2O as a fuel source. I thought that I would just start at the beginning and explain everything step by step but I couldn't even get past the first paragraph or two without a major argument so lets do this a different way. I'm going to explain the whole thing as I see it in as simple a manner as I can.
   Argument #1 was that it takes just as much energy to electrolyze a given quantity of water as is released when you burn the products of that reaction. Ok, fair enough, let's explore that statement first.
   The following problem shows how much energy is released in burning one mole of H2 (in watts):

62,000     BTU per pound of H2 burned in air   = 137.65663 BTU to the gram of H2 so then:
450.396  Grams per pound

(137.65663 BTU per gram of H2)*(1.008 grams per mole of H2)= 138.75788 BTU per mole of H2 and therefore:

(138.75788 BTU per mole of H2)*(778.26 ftlbs per BTU)= 107989.7 ftlbs per mole of H2 so:

107989.7    ftlbs per mole of H2   = 3.2724151 hp per mole of H2 so then:
33,000        ftlbs per hp

(3.2724151 hp per mole of H2)*(746 watts per hp)= 2441.2216 watts per mole of H2 and:

2441.2216 watts per mole of H2 = 2.4412216 kilowatts
1000          watts per kilowatt

   Let's remember that shall we? Because now we are going to see how much energy is needed to electrolyze an equal quantity of water. Well actually we need to double the above figure to account for the fact that we are using 2H2 to react with O2 and form two molecules of H2O so it is really 4.8824432 kw.

   Following is the problem that shows how much energy is required to electrolyze one mole of water:

(68.32 kcal to electrolyze one mole of water)*(4.18*1000 [i.e.: ten to the third power])= 285,850.88  joules to the mole of water so:

285,850.88 joules to the mole of water = 4764.1813 watts to electrolyze one mole in one minute
1 min * 60 seconds

or 4.7641 kilowatts to do the job.
 
Let's review our findings, shall we? We found out above that it takes 4.7641 kilowatts of energy to electrolyze our mole of water right? Go ahead, check my math....... Right then, we also found that when burned our same mole of H2 will yield 4.8824432 kilowatts of energy didn't we? Sure we did and what does that mean? Well let's see if you round up just a bit it means that it takes 5 kilowatts of energy to electrolyze a mole of water into H2 and O2 gas and 5 kilowatts of energy is given off when we burn those two gasses to form one mole of water in the form of superheated steam.
   So there we have AGAIN proved the old axiom that it takes just as much energy to electrolyze water as is given off when you burn the products of that reaction and OPEC can breathe a sigh of relief.
   But wait...actually, if we don't round the numbers off, there IS a difference between how much energy is required to separate water into it's component parts and how much is given off  isn't there?
I grant you it isn't much of a difference but it could mean a great deal in any attempts to use H2O as a viable source of pollution free fuel.
   The best possible scenario in the electrolysis cell would be for the electrodes to be made of platinum as it is an inert metal and will not participate as a reactant as, for example, copper could.
The preferred electrolyte will be Na2SO4 as the only products of this reaction are H2 at the cathode and O2 at the anode. The water must be circulated regularly to prevent the buildup of 2OH- molecules at the cathode and 4H+4e- at the anode which will ultimately interfere with the optimum operation of the cell. When the water is circulated these ions rejoin to form H2O molecules and the only products of the electrolysis reaction are the H2 and O2 gas.
   I use copper electrodes and NaCl as reactants in this paper for simplicity in duplication. The product at the cathode is still H2 gas but at the anode it would be chlorine gas or the copper could cause metallic sodium to be the product there. It is probably actually safer to do it this way as an amateur because you don't have the gaseous O2 floating around to pose a potential danger to you.
   Stay tuned for the next installment.
                         MJ
  --------------5D163A5E02F1454021432718-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 13:47:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA14391; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:47:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:47:40 -0800 Message-ID: <003c01bf4421$c53ecce0$b4b47ed8@mrand> From: "mrand" To: Subject: Re: H2 From Water Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:50:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"RSC4Q2.0.hW3.xPiKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13174 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Michael, Sounds interesting! Any experimental test data? Did you fuel an engine? Regards, Michael Randall > I'll send it direct. It's big and in 7 parts so I'll just send you 5-7. >Yhose are what I consider to be the important ones. > MJ > >Michael T Huffman wrote: > >> >Hi All, >> > I've figured out how to get unlimited H2 from water without violating >> >any known laws. Did this by changing perception of problem and applying >> >known laws to new perspective. Want to see the paper I wrote on it? >> >Either allow me to post on list or e-mail me and I will send it direct. >> > MJ >> >> Sounds interesting. There is a limit to filesizes on the list, which I >> think is 40K. I'd like to see it, if nobody else does. >> >> Knuke >> Michael T. Huffman >> Huffman Technology Company >> 1121 Dustin Drive >> The Villages, Florida 32159 >> (352)259-1276 >> knuke@LCIA.COM >> http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 13:48:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA14624; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:48:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:48:29 -0800 Message-ID: <3852C941.6FF0C93@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:59:30 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: energy21 , freenrg-l , jlnlabs Subject: [Fwd: Water, Part 2] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E0E2CE6B3B7C36F77C4BC7DA" Resent-Message-ID: <"znaWK.0.Pa3.iQiKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13175 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E0E2CE6B3B7C36F77C4BC7DA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------E0E2CE6B3B7C36F77C4BC7DA Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <3841CCD8.E58E5145@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 19:46:17 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Interact Subject: Water, Part 2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Hopefully I have gotten your attention by now. With the first installment I showed a rather simple illustration to prove that a difference exists between the amount of energy required to electrolyze a given quantity of water and the amount of energy which is given off when the products resulting from said electrolysis are burned together. As I said it is not much of a difference but it is a difference and the fact that the higher amount of energy appears on the side of what is released by burning it means that here we have the basis of a whole new, free source of fuel to power our world. The first objection that usually rears it's ugly head at this point is that the information I have presented thus far violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics. You are absolutely right. It does seem to but upon further consideration I realized that it DOES NOT violate the Second Law as we understand it. The problem seems to be a misapplication of the second law in this case. A misapplication which has gone unchallenged for a long time now. I am going to explain why this is so through the use of an analogy and hopefully I can do it clearly enough so that we don't have to digress into pointless arguments over it's validity. The first question that I had to ask was; if this is impossible then how can any system work? I decided to compare the use of water as a fuel source with the use of fossil fuels. Both are available in large quantities in a natural (raw) state on this planet. Water as water which usually contains varying amounts of diverse pollutants in both solid form as particulates and in solution. Crude oil is available in a thick sludgy form (most commonly) which also contains various pollutants. The chemical formula for water is H2O and the chemical formula of gasoline for example is C8H18. What do we see in common so far? It can be argued that these are two totally different compounds and that is true but please follow along for a bit. Both of these compounds are without doubt Hydrogen compounds aren't they? Water is hydrogen with oxygen and gasoline is hydrogen with carbon. Another similarity is that both of these substances have to be changed or "refined" from their natural state into something that we can best utilize as a fuel. Crude oil into gasoline and various other products and water into hydrogen and oxygen gasses. So with that in mind we have to first think about exactly what we need to do to get crude oil from it's resting place under the earth to the gas pumps at our local convenience store. First we have to set up drilling equipment to sink a hole into the earth, down to where the oil is. Once that is done we have to pump the oil up and transport it to a refinery. At the refinery we have to cook it to separate the various grades of fuels that we will use. Then we have to transport these finished products to distribution centers and finally deliver them to your local retail outlet. During this whole process we have obviously used an incredible amount of energy, haven't we? Imagine that we could do all of these things at one site. Then imagine that there are ways to convert the products of the burning of this fuel (gasoline) i.e.: C8H14->Carbon Dioxide, Carbon Monoxide and water back into gasoline. After all you end up with all of the original components, just mixed into different compounds so you should be able to remanufacture gasoline from exhaust gasses just by taking O2 back out of the mix, right ? Actually though, why not? And what if you did find a way to do that? I guess that it would THEN violate the second law of thermodynamics wouldn't it? After all it doesn't take more energy to produce gasoline than is given off by burning it does it? If it does than something is very wrong here! Or conversely, what if you took raw water and "refined" it into fuel gas H2 and oxidizer O2 and then burned them together to produce energy and instead of condensing the resulting exhaust gasses you just vented them into the atmosphere and pumped some more raw water out of your well? That way an H2O fuel source WOULDN'T VIOLATE THE SECOND LAW UNDER THE RULES APPLIED TO CRUDE OIL WOULD IT? End of part 2 MJ --------------E0E2CE6B3B7C36F77C4BC7DA-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 13:53:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA17229; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:53:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:53:55 -0800 Message-ID: <3852CA8F.6C4B9DF1@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:05:03 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: energy21 , freenrg-l , jlnlabs Subject: [Fwd: Water, Part 3] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------72C2BB7E03DCB58CA88D6DE6" Resent-Message-ID: <"yvocX2.0.5D4.pViKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13176 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------72C2BB7E03DCB58CA88D6DE6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------72C2BB7E03DCB58CA88D6DE6 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <38436FD5.E301449B@csrlink.net> Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 01:33:57 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Interact Subject: Water, Part 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Just for a little background on this before I continue. I did all of this back in '92-'93 and couldn't find anyone to give me the benefit or courtesy of a hearing then so I shelved it. That's where it stayed until a couple of weeks ago when I ran across it and thought I might try to see if I could find anyone now to listen. I had mixed results with that and so said to hell with it I'll just put it up on the Internet and maybe someone else will have the time and/or money to see if this thing will really work. So have fun. Next let's look at the claim that "pure" water is required to electrolyze water. I actually saw that in a textbook when I was doing my initial research into this. It didn't explain WHY pure water was necessary and that might lead a student to think that it really IS required in the sense that it won't work without it. Very simply the book was wrong. I electrolyzed tap water from a well and it worked just fine with the addition of an electrolyte (rock salt). Actually pure water (distilled) is a poor conductor of electricity. The only reason that pure water (with electrolyte added) is better is that you won't have a lot of gunk like limestone, mud, algae, etc.. to muck up your electrolysis cell. Before I start into a new area I want to sum up what I have presented so far. The crux of it is that while it is not absolutely true that it takes precisely the same quantity of energy to electrolyze a given quantity of water as is given off when the products of that reaction are reunified by combustion the actual difference is very small. Given the fact that there is a difference though and the fact that the greater amount of energy falls on the side of combustion it does lead to some interesting possibilities. Mainly the possibility that, through the use of all means at our disposal, we might be able to use plain old water as our next primary source of energy. Actually there are several more factors which we must take into consideration before we get to the actual designing of any apparatus because they too work in our favor. 1) EMF: The presence of an electromagnetic field weakens the hydrogen bond. A simple statement but an obviously important one. That means that if you placed your electrolysis unit in the vicinity of an electromagnetic field of sufficient strength, you would need LESS electricity running through your cell to cause separation. Ergo, if you kept increasing the strength of that field you should reach a point where you don't need ANY electricity in your electrolysis unit at all.The only seeming disadvantage would be that there wouldn't be any electrodes for the gasses to collect on and be retrieved from. A potential proof of the above hypothesis does exist somewhere. I heard Art Bell mention an experiment that he had heard of which was supposed to have been conducted in Sweden (I believe). At any rate, the actual objective of the experiment was to create an extremely powerful electromagnetic field. Having accomplished this the story goes, that the researchers then placed various objects within the field to observe the effects of the field on these objects (if any). Supposedly a container of water was placed within the field and when the field was turned on the water "boiled away". That would seem to be the wrong term though wouldn't it? What probably actually happened was that the water spontaneously separated due to the strength of the field. At any rate it still requires energy to create an electromagnetic field and such energy has to be created somehow (like by burning H2 and O2 ). So it seems like we could be back to square one again right? No because if you wanted to induce a permanent field in the vicinity of your separator cell so that the hydrogen bond would be weakened and you could therefore use less energy to effect your separation why not consider a room temperature superconductor? Is that really valid? I don't know as it is a last minute addition and I haven't had time to really check into them. My main point is to show that there are several ways to weaken the hydrogen bond without putting any additional energy into the system from your primary source on an ongoing basis. Therefore, if the hydrogen bond can be weakened it is common sense to realize that it is not "written in stone" that it takes just as much energy to cause the separation as is given off by the burning of the products. For that matter, electrolyze water then build a hydrogen bomb and ignite it and put that power output into your system...hehehe. Actually it could just as well be true and that would be ok too because I believe that I can show you how to utilize enough EXISTING advantages at both ends of this process to make it useful. The schematics for actual devices (quite an assortment of them) will be presented in future installments. 2) TEMPERATURE: Water is more susceptible to electrolysis at certain temperatures. Interestingly enough the optimum temperature to electrolyze water is 98.6 degrees (or thereabouts), which is of course normal human body temperature. Again, we have another way to weaken the hydrogen bond. WEIRD SCIENCE NOTE: As an aside, spontaneous human combustion (if it really happens at all) is supposed to result in the incineration of the victim's body at 6,000 degrees Fahrenheit or better. Coincidentally enough H2 and O2 burned together generate a flame of about 7,000 degrees Fahrenheit. Water is most susceptible to separation at the normal human body temperature. The human body is 70% water. The human body has plenty of electrolyte (salt). The human body has it's own electrical system to provide ignition (real stretch there) and energy to electrolyze. So put two and two together.......Oh well, just a thought. 3) ELECTROLYTE: Various types of electrolytes have been tried and some do work better than others. This fact could be viewed as a simple example of one catalyst being better than another. Since all a catalyst does is speed up the reaction without changing the amount of energy required it doesn't quite count with the above two examples but nevertheless it is important to the overall performance of the system so I have included it here. I have read that Ruthenium Salts make excellent electrolytes. To the point that they will enable water to separate solely from the energy provided by sitting a jar of water containing these salts in a ray of sunlight! No electricity needed! Ok that will be all for this installment. I'm sorry if I seem to be going on in such minute detail here but I feel that it is important for us all to understand how I got to where I am on this before we tackle the actual devices themselves. When I first put this together I sent the complete package to The U.S. Department of Energy and they sent me a letter back the same day they received it quoting the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Obviously they didn't even take time to go past the first paragraph. Next I sent a copy to Greenpeace. No response. They must have been too busy collecting donations. Have no fear though by this coming weekend I hope to have the entire lot of it up here. As an obviously wise man once told me: "The proof is in the pudding" so the pudding's coming. Later, MJ --------------72C2BB7E03DCB58CA88D6DE6-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 14:02:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA21759; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:02:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:02:30 -0800 Message-ID: <3852CC92.90B97794@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:13:38 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jlnlabs , freenrg-l , energy21 Subject: [Fwd: Water,Part 4 (companion)] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------94477CAE9C25B63CC718755D" Resent-Message-ID: <"Ij3ze2.0.uJ5.sdiKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13177 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------94477CAE9C25B63CC718755D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------94477CAE9C25B63CC718755D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <38445BF8.886A2424@csrlink.net> Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 18:21:28 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Interact Subject: Water,Part 4 (companion) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------E138BE3E0EEC68DBF6EC3522" --------------E138BE3E0EEC68DBF6EC3522 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok Then, Hopefully everyone has the last one. I sent it as both text and HTML and the schematic is in JPG format. If you are reading your mail on a text only program I would suggest opening it in your browser or printing it out to refer to as I explain it here. I drew it myself on Microsoft Paint so no apologies for quality. You get what you pay for and you're getting this free . Let's take a basic overview first. You can see that the system consists of a two chambered cell. I would suggest making the cell out of a non conducting material (like PVC Plastic). There is a central wall which separates the unit into two halves. As long as your water level is above the lowest part of the wall you can keep the two gasses that are produced within it separate. The electrodes are fitted into the bottom of the unit through two holes. They should be made out of a material which is a good conductor and which does not react too much with water (rust). Copper might be an easily available choice. Gold would be better ;-) If you notice the tops of the electrodes are brought to a sharp point. This is because I noticed during my initial experiments that such areas (pointed ones) produce the really nice, steady, streams of gas. I imagine that this is due to the fact that the magnetic lines of force are concentrated at these points. Second, please note the little circles at the top and bottom of the cell and how they are connected by lines. These represent coils of wire wound around the cell so that an electromagnetic field is induced. The strength of this field can be adjusted by the amount of electricity you put through it and by the number of "windings" in your coil. This is supposed to be a cut-away view from the side. Notice the openings at the top of the cell. These are for the gasses created by the cell to be drawn off and used or stored. At this point several things could be added, depending on how you want the system to work. For example we could put a pressure controlled valve in to open up whenever a certain internal pressure was reached or whenever the pressure in the line leading away fell to a certain point. In other words, make it into a supply or demand governed system. We could also rig it so that there is a switch that cuts the power to the electrodes once a certain maximum pressure is reached and turns it back on once a certain minimum pressure is reached. If you wanted to use it on an ongoing basis you also need to put in a water inlet (gravity fed would be fine) regulated by a float switch. A drain plug on the bottom wouldn't be a bad idea either. The box P on the right side of the drawing represents your power supply. It doesn't matter here what it is, where it's from or what fuel you use to generate it. The line from box P to box T is an electrical transmission line. Box T represents whatever kind of transformer/controls you need to put on to regulate your electricity into the best form i.e.: voltage + or - and amperage + or -. From box T you notice that we split the line into two. One feeds the electrolysis cell and the other runs through the electromagnetic coil which surrounds the cell. I did this because we assume that we might want to synchronize the regulation of the field strength as opposed to the amount of current running through the cell. We want to do this because as one increases the amount in one, the amount required in the other decreases. Some important factors come into play here and must be considered before we go any further. If you look at the other end of the unit you will see that the transmission line exits both the cell and the coil and comes together again at box J. This represents a simple junction box which may or may not be required or an additional device such as another transformer may be required here. The next thing to consider will be that we really aren't losing/using very much electricity in this device at all. How so? Because we have made it all work in line as part of the transmission line. Imagine if you will that this is a commercial power plant. The power source is putting out 100,000 volts and we are putting the separator unit in line on our main transmission line to our first substation. The only electricity that we lose here is what is normally lost to resistance in the wires and in the water. We are not grounding the system out at any point here and whatever electricity is left over after passing through this (which should be quite a bit) will then continue on down our transmission line to be used wherever it is needed! Notice that the line feeding the electrodes enters at the first one and exits at the other one directly into the transmission line. So we are sending that 100,000 volts through this. If we follow the basic law then we need to pass 100,000 volts of electricity through this to generate enough gasses to produce the equivalent of 100,000 volts of electricity when they are burned together. Think about that. Water, with a good electrolyte, is a very GOOD conductor of electricity. Better than the wires hooked up to the electrodes in all probability. So we won't be losing any more of our charge through the cell than we would in a piece of wire of the same length would we? All you have to worry about is the resistance losses. Oh yes and also the losses in radiant heat that will occur due to the winding of the coil. There is another bonus. You could probably utilize that radiant energy to heat the water in your cell to the previously mentioned, desired temperature of 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit to obtain maximum susceptibility to separation in the water. Maybe you could also include a thermostat controlled electric fan at one end of the unit. That way if the unit gets too hot it will kick on and blow air through the coil until the water temperature drops back to where you want it to be. Remember also that the stronger you make your surrounding coil (more turns) the less of your energy that you need to send through the cell itself. That way you can cut the losses there even more if it seems indicated. Another thing to consider would be to eliminate the current going through the cell entirely and instead just put a piece of stainless steel rod through the unit with an electrode on each end of it. The field you see will automatically orient itself into N and S poles and will transmit this orientation to the steel and you should be able to cause separation in this manner and still recover the gasses individually at the proper poles of the magnet. We will consider further additions and modifications to this basic unit as we progress with looking at various devices which are designed to make use of this fuel. Later, MJ --------------E138BE3E0EEC68DBF6EC3522 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok Then,
   Hopefully everyone has the last one. I sent it as both text and HTML and the schematic is in JPG format. If you are reading your mail on a text only program I would suggest opening it in your browser or printing it out to refer to as I explain it here. I drew it myself on Microsoft Paint so no apologies for quality. You get what you pay for and you're getting this free <lol>.
   Let's take a basic overview first. You can see that the system consists of  a two chambered cell. I would suggest making the cell out of a non conducting material (like PVC Plastic). There is a central wall which separates the unit into two halves. As long as your water level is above the lowest part of the wall you can keep the two gasses that are produced within it separate.
   The electrodes are fitted into the bottom of the unit through two holes. They should be made out of a material which is a good conductor and which does not react too much with water (rust). Copper might be an easily available choice. Gold would be better ;-)
   If you notice the tops of the electrodes are brought to a sharp point. This is because I noticed during my initial experiments that such areas (pointed ones) produce the really nice, steady, streams of gas. I imagine that this is due to the fact that the magnetic lines of force are concentrated at these points.
   Second, please note the little circles at the top and bottom of the cell and how they are connected by lines. These represent coils of wire wound around the cell so that an electromagnetic field is induced. The strength of this field can be adjusted by the amount of electricity you put through it and by the number of "windings" in your coil. This is supposed to be a cut-away view from the side.
   Notice the openings at the top of the cell. These are for the gasses created by the cell to be drawn off and used or stored. At this point several things could be added, depending on how you want the system to work. For example we could put a pressure controlled valve in to open up whenever a certain internal pressure was reached or whenever the pressure in the line leading away fell to a certain point. In other words, make it into a supply or demand governed system. We could also rig it so that there is a switch that cuts the power to the electrodes once a certain maximum pressure is reached and turns it back on once a certain minimum pressure is reached.
   If you wanted to use it on an ongoing basis you also need to put in a water inlet (gravity fed would be fine) regulated by a float switch. A drain plug on the bottom wouldn't be a bad idea either.
   The box P on the right side of the drawing represents your power supply. It doesn't matter here what it is, where it's from or what fuel you use to generate it. The line from box P to box T is an electrical transmission line. Box T represents whatever kind of transformer/controls you need to put on to regulate your electricity into the best form i.e.: voltage + or - and amperage + or -.
   From box T you notice that we split the line into two. One feeds the electrolysis cell and the other runs through the electromagnetic coil which surrounds the cell. I did this because we assume that we might want to synchronize the regulation of the field strength as opposed to the amount of current running through the cell. We want to do this because as one increases the amount in one, the amount required in the other decreases.
   Some important factors come into play here and must be considered before we go any further. If you look at the other end of the unit you will see that the transmission line exits both the cell and the coil and comes together again at box J. This represents a simple junction box which may or may not be required or an additional device such as another transformer may be required here.
   The next thing to consider will be that we really aren't losing/using very much electricity in this device at all. How so? Because we have made it all work in line as part of the transmission line. Imagine if you will that this is a commercial power plant. The power source is putting out 100,000 volts and we are putting the separator unit in line on our main transmission line to our first substation. The only electricity that we lose here is what is normally lost to resistance in the wires and in the water. We are not grounding the system out at any point here and whatever electricity is left over after passing through this (which should be quite a bit) will then continue on down our transmission line to be used wherever it is needed!
   Notice that the line feeding the electrodes enters at the first one and exits at the other one directly into the transmission line. So we are sending that 100,000 volts through this. If we follow the basic law then we need to pass 100,000 volts of electricity through this to generate enough gasses to produce the equivalent of 100,000 volts of electricity when they are burned together.
   Think about that. Water, with a good electrolyte, is a very GOOD conductor of electricity. Better than the wires hooked up to the electrodes in all probability. So we won't be losing any more of our charge through the cell than we would in a piece of wire of the same length would we? All you have to worry about is the resistance losses. Oh yes and also the losses in radiant heat that will occur due to the winding of the coil. There is another bonus. You could probably utilize that radiant energy to heat the water in your cell to the previously mentioned, desired temperature of 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit to obtain maximum susceptibility to separation in the water. Maybe you could also include a thermostat controlled electric fan at one end of the unit. That way if the unit gets too hot it will kick on and blow air through the coil until the water temperature drops back to where you want it to be.
   Remember also that the stronger you make your surrounding coil (more turns) the less of your energy that you need to send through the cell itself. That way you can cut the losses there even more if it seems indicated. Another thing to consider would be to eliminate the current going through the cell entirely and instead just put a piece of stainless steel rod through the unit with an electrode on each end of it. The field you see will automatically orient itself into N and S poles and will transmit this orientation to the steel and you should be able to cause separation in this manner and still recover the gasses individually at the proper poles of the magnet.
   We will consider further additions and modifications to this basic unit as we progress with looking at various devices which are designed to make use of this fuel.
                                    Later,
                                       MJ
 

  --------------E138BE3E0EEC68DBF6EC3522-- --------------94477CAE9C25B63CC718755D-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 14:18:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA27253; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:18:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:18:13 -0800 Message-ID: <3852D043.E5454B74@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:29:23 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jlnlabs , energy21 , freenrg-l Subject: Note Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tXozs3.0.ff6.bsiKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13178 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I know that a lot of the stuff in the first couple of parts isn't really acurate but they were the parts I did years ago and I included them to show how I got from point a to point b. Starting in part 5 I had a whole new realization and I think from 5 on are the important ones. MJ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 14:20:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA28396; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:20:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:20:21 -0800 Message-ID: <3852D0C3.ED7D4088@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:31:32 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: H2 From Water References: <003c01bf4421$c53ecce0$b4b47ed8@mrand> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"a4xiK2.0.Zx6.auiKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13179 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Parts 5 and up are the good ones. Only test I did so far was to hook 3 cells in line with each other on a 12v 2a battery charger. All 3 cells in the circuit put out as much gas as they would have if they were the only one. THAT is the whole secret. MJ mrand wrote: > Hi Michael, > Sounds interesting! Any experimental test data? Did you fuel an engine? > Regards, Michael Randall > > > I'll send it direct. It's big and in 7 parts so I'll just send you 5-7. > >Yhose are what I consider to be the important ones. > > MJ > > > >Michael T Huffman wrote: > > > >> >Hi All, > >> > I've figured out how to get unlimited H2 from water without violating > >> >any known laws. Did this by changing perception of problem and applying > >> >known laws to new perspective. Want to see the paper I wrote on it? > >> >Either allow me to post on list or e-mail me and I will send it direct. > >> > MJ > >> > >> Sounds interesting. There is a limit to filesizes on the list, which I > >> think is 40K. I'd like to see it, if nobody else does. > >> > >> Knuke > >> Michael T. Huffman > >> Huffman Technology Company > >> 1121 Dustin Drive > >> The Villages, Florida 32159 > >> (352)259-1276 > >> knuke@LCIA.COM > >> http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 14:21:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA29551; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:21:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:21:41 -0800 Message-ID: <3852D10C.24BDA227@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:32:44 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: energy21 , freenrg-l , jlnlabs Subject: [Fwd: Water, Part 5 (Merry Christmas)] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------A3601A7AB6CB7FF1AC2A0C37" Resent-Message-ID: <"8arZR.0.dD7.qviKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13180 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A3601A7AB6CB7FF1AC2A0C37 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------A3601A7AB6CB7FF1AC2A0C37 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <38473DFA.22E38790@csrlink.net> Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 22:50:19 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Interact Subject: Water, Part 5 (Merry Christmas) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------A27B206A2F644AAFBE918B62" --------------A27B206A2F644AAFBE918B62 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I decided that I might as well make this my christmas present to the world this year. Being on the verge of the new millennium makes it even more appropriate and besides, I never had the chance to give the world a present before. I weighed the option of trying to make a buck or two off of it first but I would have had to get all greedy and secretive to do that and I don't want all of the hassles. Maybe, if I turn out to be right, the world will give me something back anyway and that's better isn't it? Even if I got nothing back I'd be no worse off than I am now anyway would I? Right then, let's get to it. Here's how you can make water into a real, cheap, limitless source of fuel. One that will replace all liquid and gaseous forms of fossil fuels forever. And one which can be used TODAY because most systems that currently use fossil fuels could be retrofitted to use this fuel. When you are finished reading this you will probably think is is a rather stupidly obvious answer but that's not my fault is it? The first thing that we have to do is to think of water as a conductor. Not just realize the fact that it will conduct electricity but actually think of it as you would a piece of copper or aluminum wire. Interestingly enough I read somewhere that there were experiments being done one time on using little water filled tubes as conductors in situations where high conductivity with low resistance was needed. So think about it that way. Water as a piece of liquid wire (with electrolyte added). Now let's look at the diagram of the simple electrolysis cell from "Water, Part 4". Notice how the main electrical supply line from the power source (Box P) feeds directly to the + terminal on the unit. Then consider the water between the + terminal and the - terminal as a conductor. One with high conductivity and low resistance. Sort of like a splice in our normal copper feeder line. Picture cutting a copper wire and then fastening a piece of aluminum wire between the cut ends. You end will end up with a longer piece of total wire right? The basic ability of the line to carry a charge would be unaffected. If you wanted to be really picky such an arrangement would put a few more variables into the mix since we are now using two totally different conductors with different individual properties (aluminum is a better conductor than copper for example). I don't think that the overall performance of the line would be affected by that splice though. Do you? Course not. Now let's do the same thing but instead of using aluminum wire let's put an electrolysis cell like the one in "Water, Part 4" in and see what happens. Actually let's drop the EMF coil from it. We won't need that any more. The thing that we have to see here is that water is a difficult thing for us to use as a conductor because of it's rather nasty habit of decomposing into a potentially explosive combination of hydrogen and oxygen gasses whenever an electrical charge passes through it. Here's where anyone doing research into using water as a conductor would put water on the shelf and forget about it. In this scenario the very gasses that we want to use for fuel are an annoyance. Now keep that idea of water as a conductor in your mind. Other than that little problem with decomposing it should behave pretty much like any other conductor. Look at the diagram from part 4 again. See how the supply line from the - side of the seperator/splice (new name for our electrolysis cell) runs on out to carry power to do other work and eventually to a ground point somewhere? This is a crucially important thing to consider. After all we didn't really use ANY electricity in our electrolysis cell did we? Let that sink in for a moment. We could figure some loss in because of resistance but actually we lose less electricity by passing it through a seperator/splice than we would in an equal length of copper due to copper's lower conductivity and higher resistance. We do end up with some H2 and O2 gas though because that is the inevitable by product of passing electricity through this conductor. These by products (H2 and O2 gasses) are created no matter how much electricity we use. Well actually there are probably lower end limits but I feel that they would be too low to be of any importance to us here. I used 12v,30a in my experiments and that worked just fine. What IS important is the fact that when water is used as a conductor and an electrical current is passed through it the conductive material (water) decomposes into it's basic component parts at a rate that is directly proportional to the amount of electricity that the conductor is being made to carry. That is my new law for that phenomenon. It would be easy to create tables (if they don't already exist) so that you could know the exact rate of decomposition at various power inputs. Ok so here's the biggie: "What happens if you add ANOTHER seperator/splice directly in line after the first?N --------------A27B206A2F644AAFBE918B62 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------F1F5BD5EC170879EFB24BE83" --------------F1F5BD5EC170879EFB24BE83 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All,
   I decided that I might as well make this my christmas present to the world this year. Being on the verge of the new millennium makes it even more appropriate and besides, I never had the chance to give the world a present  before. I weighed the option of trying to make a buck or two off of it first but I would have had to get all greedy and secretive to do that and I don't want all of the hassles. Maybe, if I turn out to be right, the world will give me something back anyway and that's better isn't it? Even if I got nothing back I'd be no worse off than I am now anyway would I?
   Right then, let's get to it. Here's how you can make water into a real, cheap, limitless source of fuel. One that will replace all liquid and gaseous forms of fossil fuels forever. And one which can be used TODAY because most systems that currently use fossil fuels could be retrofitted to use this fuel. When you are finished reading this you will probably think is is a rather stupidly obvious answer but that's not my fault is it?
   The first thing that we have to do is to think of water as a conductor. Not just realize the fact that it will conduct electricity but actually think of it as you would a piece of copper or aluminum wire. Interestingly enough I read somewhere that there were experiments being done one time on using little water filled tubes as conductors in situations where high conductivity with low resistance was needed. So think about it that way. Water as a piece of liquid wire (with electrolyte added).
   Now let's look at the diagram of the simple electrolysis cell from "Water, Part 4". Notice how the main electrical supply line from the power source (Box P) feeds directly to the + terminal on the unit. Then consider the water between the + terminal and the - terminal as a conductor. One with high conductivity and low resistance. Sort of like a splice in our normal copper feeder line. Picture cutting a copper wire and then fastening a piece of aluminum wire between the cut ends. You end will end up with a longer piece of total wire right? The basic ability of the line to carry a charge would be unaffected.
   If you wanted to be really picky such an arrangement would put a few more variables into the mix since we are now using two totally different conductors with different individual properties (aluminum is a better conductor than copper for example). I don't think that the overall performance of the line would be affected by that splice though. Do you? Course not.
   Now let's do the same thing but instead of using aluminum wire let's put an electrolysis cell like the one in "Water, Part 4" in and see what happens. Actually let's drop the EMF coil from it. We won't need that any more.
   The thing that we have to see here is that water is a difficult thing for us to use as a conductor because of it's rather nasty habit of decomposing into a potentially explosive combination of hydrogen and oxygen gasses whenever an electrical charge passes through it. Here's where anyone doing research into using water as a conductor would put water on the shelf and forget about it. In this scenario the very gasses that we want to use for fuel are an annoyance.
   Now keep that idea of water as a conductor in your mind. Other than that little problem with decomposing it should behave pretty much like any other conductor. Look at the diagram from part 4 again. See how the supply line from the - side of the seperator/splice (new name for our electrolysis cell) runs on out to carry power to do other work and eventually to a ground point somewhere? This is a crucially important thing to consider. After all we didn't really use ANY electricity in our electrolysis cell did we? Let that sink in for a moment.
   We could figure some loss in because of resistance but actually we lose less electricity by passing it through a seperator/splice than we would in an equal length of copper due to copper's lower conductivity and higher resistance. We do end up with some H2 and O2 gas though because that is the inevitable by product of passing electricity through this conductor.
   These by products (H2 and O2 gasses) are created no matter how much electricity we use. Well actually there are probably lower end limits but I feel that they would be too low to be of any importance to us here. I used 12v,30a in my experiments and that worked just fine.
   What IS important is the fact that when water is used as a conductor and an electrical current is passed through it the conductive material (water) decomposes into it's basic component parts at a rate that is directly proportional to the amount of electricity that the conductor is being made to carry. That is my new law for that phenomenon. It would be easy to create tables (if they don't already exist) so that you could know the exact rate of decomposition at various power inputs.
   Ok so here's the biggie: "What happens if you add ANOTHER seperator/splice directly in line after the first?N
 
 
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RRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUU AFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABR RRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUU AFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABR RRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUU AFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABR RRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUU AFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABR RRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUU AFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABR RRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUU AFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABR RRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUU AFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABR RRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUU AFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABR RRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUU AFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABR RRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUU AFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABR RRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUU AFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFAH/ 2Q== --------------F1F5BD5EC170879EFB24BE83-- --------------A27B206A2F644AAFBE918B62-- --------------A3601A7AB6CB7FF1AC2A0C37-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 14:22:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA30158; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:22:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:22:27 -0800 Message-ID: <3852D132.FFE3F670@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:33:22 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: energy21 , freenrg-l , jlnlabs Subject: [Fwd: Water, Part 5 (continued)] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------BC530ABD64CA08FDA66F7E93" Resent-Message-ID: <"tFQ732.0.7N7.ZwiKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13181 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------BC530ABD64CA08FDA66F7E93 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------BC530ABD64CA08FDA66F7E93 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <38475122.B0CD4F32@csrlink.net> Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 00:12:03 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Interact Subject: Water, Part 5 (continued) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok Then, What if you added on another unit, and another and another.....? You end up with an electrical transmission line that is made up of small segments of two different conductors spliced together. The material making up each of these "spliced in" pieces (water) having the unfortunate tendency to decompose into a potentially explosive mixture of H2 and O2 at a rate that is directly proportional to the amount of electricity that you are passing through your line. In other words, if the line is carrying a charge of say, 120v and 30a and this is the charge that exists through EACH of the seperator/splices (as it will be) then EACH SPLICE will decompose into it's components at the SAME RATE AND VOLUME AS IT WOULD IF IT WAS THE ONLY ONE IN THE SYSTEM!! You see, all we had to do was change the perspective from which we viewed the reality of the separator/splice and suddenly we are able to perceive a whole new reality where H2 fuel gas is a free by-product of using water as an electrical conductor. As a real world analogy think about those strings of like 300 christmas lights. You know, the ones where if one goes out then none of them will work. Well ok, they use the higher resistance of the wire inside the light bulb to transform electrical energy into heat and light energy but it wouldn't matter weather there was one, ten or three hundred bulbs on the string of lights. They all burn equally bright don't they? Same thing here. You could put 300 seperator/splices on your line and they would each act as individuals and EACH ONE would put out gas from it's decomposition in direct proportion to the amount of energy passing through it as it would if it were the ONLY one on the system. So if we want to use the H2 gas that is produced by the decomposition of the material that our splices are made of to power the engine that we use to turn the generator at our power source then all we have to do is figure out how many seperator/splices to make in our line to generate the required quantity of gasses and then if we want H2 gas to run other things we simply add more seperator/splices. ;-) Coincidentally enough there has been quite a bit of work done in the past by many fine scientists and amateurs alike along these lines. The only problem is that they all (as far as I know) deal with having one seperator/splice in the system. We know, for example, that the energy that is released by burning the H2 gas that is generated by the decomposition of our conductor (water) is nearly equal to the amount of electrical energy that passes through our conductor in a single seperator/splice. So in a perfect world we could use that quantity of gas to power the motor that turns the generator that produces the electricity that runs along the line and separates the water. This however is not a perfect world by any means and so quite a bit of the energy released by burning the H2 gas never gets to be used to turn the generator. That is the Second Law of Thermodynamics in a nutshell and it is also the idea that has prevented us from making use of this fuel source before this. Here is where the 2nd Law was misapplied. In using the H2 as a fuel you are indeed transferring the energy released by burning it into work energy which your motor transfers to your generator where you end up turning what's left into electrical energy but on the other end it's different and that is what I think that everyone has missed up till now. When electricity passes through your seperator/splice you are NOT transferring the energy of that electricity into the energy contained in the atoms of H2 and O2 gas! They have plenty of their own. You are using that energy to pass through the water and as it does, as a by product, it somehow interferes with the ability of the H2 and O2 molecules to hold together. Consequently some of them lose their grip and go on their merry way on their own. You may lose some of your charge due to resistance but none of it turns into H2 or O2 molecules and so you have basically the same amount of electricity leaving the seperator/splice as what you put into it to do with as you will. There's the gift world. I hope I'm right. Merry Christmas, Happy New Millennium! Later, MJ P.S.: I plan to post my designs for devices to make use of this energy over this coming weekend. So stay tuned. --------------BC530ABD64CA08FDA66F7E93-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 14:29:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA02781; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:29:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:29:01 -0800 Message-ID: <3852D2CA.1713F049@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:40:10 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: energy21 , freenrg-l , jlnlabs Subject: [Fwd: Water, Part 6 (Companion)] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------DFC21510CF4FE20FC32CE610" Resent-Message-ID: <"bYzPx3.0.Ih.j0jKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13182 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------DFC21510CF4FE20FC32CE610 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------DFC21510CF4FE20FC32CE610 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <3849839E.52EC65D3@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 16:11:59 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Interact Subject: Water, Part 6 (Companion) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B92089E0687435467A946E35" --------------B92089E0687435467A946E35 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Again, This concept for a boiler design using H2 as it's fuel source and O2 as it's oxidizer is the ONLY feasible way to use this fuel to it's maximum efficiency. The first crucial concept to look at is that this boiler, unlike any other, does not use the heat produced by the combustion of fuel to heat water into steam in a separate container. This is because the combustion of the reactants creates superheated steam as it's only by-product. Therefore the combustion of said reactants will take place INSIDE the boiler chamber itself. Not outside it or beneath it like on Grandma's old cook stove. Oh boy, that one little thing changes everything in figuring the efficiency for a steam driven electrical generating system doesn't it? Imagine that. ZERO losses of heat energy up the chimney! Another immediately obvious advantage is that with this system we won't need to use ANY air. The gasses necessary for complete combustion of the reactants are found naturally in water (8:1 in pounds, by weight) and so if we burn those gasses in that natural ratio (again, by weight) in our boiler it will result in complete combustion without air being necessary at all. Inducted air is not even desirable because it wouldn't allow us to do some of the other things that we can do with it this way. Because of this I guess it could make a nice power source for a ship, submarine or space vehicle. Since the only by product of this boiler is superheated steam and since that is what is used to turn the big turbines in most of our commercial electric plants today this just fits right in doesn't it? The major advantage that we have here is the same thing that you get from a dam in hydroelectric power. If we install a valve [(6) on the diagram] on the main steam pipe going to the first turbine then we have the opportunity to restrict the flow of the steam after we first start the system, until we build whatever kind of pressure we want it to work at (say 5000psi). Then we open the valve so that we are delivering superheated steam (5000 degrees + or -) to our turbine at 5000psi. As long as we control the rate of flow so that we only let as much steam out to the turbine as we are creating by burning our fuel then we can maintain the system in equilibrium indefinitely. At the bottom of the boiler you will notice the fuel feeds (2) with the little "spark plug" things on their sides (3) to initially start the system. I designed them to look like the nozzles on an oxyacetylene torch but a better design might be like a rocket motor. We really don't need thrust here though. Just complete combustion. The main boiler skin (1) must be able to withstand very high temperatures and pressures. After all H2 with O2 burns at 7,000 degrees and steel melts at 6,000 degrees so we will have to remove quite a bit of our original heat pretty quickly. To do this I show superheaters (9) which will take the steam that has left the previous turbine, reheat it and turn another turbine. With enough of them we should be able to manage the excess heat. I believe that around 5,000 degrees is the upper limit for today's power generating systems. I think that we could drop it down into that range. Also notice the little pumps (8) after the turbines. This is to keep back pressure from building up between the turbines. My "official" diagram is better and my explanation more complete but I am getting tired of this now so this will have to do. One more thing though. If you wanted to turn this into a loop system all you would have to do is condense the steam back into water and run it into the seperator/splices. No new electrolyte would be necessary as that will always remain in solution in our seperator/splices. Later, MJ --------------B92089E0687435467A946E35 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Again,
   This concept for a boiler design using H2 as it's fuel source and O2 as it's oxidizer is the ONLY feasible way to use this fuel to it's maximum efficiency. The first crucial concept to look at is that this boiler, unlike any other, does not use the heat produced by the combustion of fuel to heat water into steam in a separate container. This is because the combustion of the reactants creates superheated steam as it's only by-product. Therefore the combustion of said reactants will take place INSIDE the boiler chamber itself. Not outside it or beneath it like on Grandma's old cook stove. Oh boy, that one little thing changes everything in figuring the efficiency for a steam driven electrical generating system doesn't it? Imagine that. ZERO losses of heat energy up the chimney!
   Another immediately obvious advantage is that with this system we won't need to use ANY air. The gasses necessary for complete combustion of the reactants are found naturally in water (8:1 in pounds, by weight) and so if we burn those gasses in that natural ratio (again, by weight) in our boiler it will result in complete combustion without air being necessary at all. Inducted air is not even desirable because it wouldn't allow us to do some of the other things that we can do with it this way. Because of this I guess it could make a nice power source for a ship, submarine or space vehicle.
   Since the only by product of this boiler is superheated steam and since that is what is used to turn the big turbines in most of our commercial electric plants today this just fits right in doesn't it? The major advantage that we have here is the same thing that you get from a dam in hydroelectric power. If we install a valve [(6) on the diagram] on the main steam pipe going to the first turbine then we have the opportunity to restrict the flow of the steam after we first start the system, until we build whatever kind of pressure we want it to work at (say 5000psi). Then we open the valve so that we are delivering superheated steam (5000 degrees + or -) to our turbine at 5000psi. As long as we control the rate of flow so that we only let as much steam out to the turbine as we are creating by burning our fuel then we can maintain the system in equilibrium indefinitely.
   At the bottom of the boiler you will notice the fuel feeds (2) with the little "spark plug" things on their sides (3) to initially start the system. I designed them to look like the nozzles on an oxyacetylene torch but a better design might be like a rocket motor. We really don't need thrust here though. Just complete combustion.
   The main boiler skin (1) must be able to withstand very high temperatures and pressures. After all H2 with O2 burns at 7,000 degrees and steel melts at 6,000 degrees so we will have to remove quite a bit of our original heat pretty quickly. To do this I show superheaters (9) which will take the steam that has left the previous turbine, reheat it and turn another turbine. With enough of them we should be able to manage the excess heat. I believe that around 5,000 degrees is the upper limit for today's power generating systems. I think that we could drop it down into that range. Also notice the little pumps (8) after the turbines. This is to keep back pressure from building up between the turbines.
   My "official" diagram is better and my explanation more complete but I am getting tired of this now so this will have to do.
   One more thing though. If you wanted to turn this into a loop system all you would have to do is condense the steam back into water and run it into the seperator/splices. No new electrolyte would be necessary as that will always remain in solution in our seperator/splices.
                                           ;                  Later,
                                           ;                     MJ --------------B92089E0687435467A946E35-- --------------DFC21510CF4FE20FC32CE610-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 14:30:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA04072; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:30:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:30:40 -0800 Message-ID: <3852D32F.6CB14049@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:41:51 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , energy21 , jlnlabs Subject: [Fwd: Test to prove water theory] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------49726C1C5D05E1608CA21A72" Resent-Message-ID: <"iAQYy1.0.X_.F2jKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13183 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------49726C1C5D05E1608CA21A72 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------49726C1C5D05E1608CA21A72 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <384AD485.F2A49654@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 16:09:26 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Interact Subject: Test to prove water theory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'll be as brief as I can. If you would like to test the validity of what I have been saying in regard to the separation of water there is a very simple test that you could do. First we have to think about what happens in generating electricity. We burn a fuel, say hydrogen, in a motor or to heat water in a boiler. Next we use the mechanical energy of the motor or the steam from the boiler to turn a generator. During that process we lose quite a bit of the original energy contained in the fuel that we burn. There isn't any more energy laying around is there? If we match the system up so that it takes all the motor can do to turn the generator we've used up all of the available energy right? Say we use 1 mole of hydrogen to fuel the motor. We know that that mole of H2 releases about 68.32 kcal of energy. We also know we can't get even close to that amount of energy coming out of the generator that the motor is hooked up to right? Ok then. If we pass 68.32 kcal of energy through a separator it will cause the water within it to decompose into 1 mole of H2 and that one mole of H2 (when burned) will release about 68.32 kcal of energy. That means that there should be NO energy left over doesn't it? Why should you even have to ground the separator? My contention is that if you measure the amount of the electricity that is leaving the separator via the ground cable you will find that it is very nearly the amount that you are putting into it. There is the problem. That should be impossible if all of your electricity is being used to separate the water. There you go. Simple test. Build a separator for 5 or 10 bucks,put in some tap water, add some salt, hook it up to a battery (steady power source) and then use a voltmeter to determine the amount of current flowing into the separator and how much is leaving it. If any at all is leaving it I am right and the world has a new source of energy which is cheap, renewable, non-polluting and limitless. This will be my last post here. MJ --------------49726C1C5D05E1608CA21A72-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 14:31:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA05759; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:31:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:31:40 -0800 Message-ID: <3852D35B.45D2785D@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:42:36 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: energy21 , freenrg-l , jlnlabs Subject: [Fwd: I'm Right] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------919995F50ECF7C58D5F90504" Resent-Message-ID: <"w6Kbm2.0.jP1.B3jKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13184 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------919995F50ECF7C58D5F90504 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------919995F50ECF7C58D5F90504 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <3851BF90.7ED795E5@csrlink.net> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 22:05:53 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Interact Subject: I'm Right Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I just set up three cells as I described with warm tap water and table salt as the electrolyte. I tried one and that worked. Hooked up all three and they worked as I predicted. Welcome to the brave new world. MJ --------------919995F50ECF7C58D5F90504-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 14:36:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA09014; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:36:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:36:06 -0800 Message-ID: <3852D473.45C76733@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:47:15 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: energy21 , freenrg-l , jlnlabs Subject: [Fwd: Clarification] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------A9E1843F9494AF7BFDC86C57" Resent-Message-ID: <"Hgpnv1.0.eC2.L7jKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13185 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A9E1843F9494AF7BFDC86C57 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------A9E1843F9494AF7BFDC86C57 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <3851C710.8ED83FD6@csrlink.net> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 22:37:53 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Interact Subject: Clarification Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Again, I just wanted to clarify a couple of things that I neglected to mention previously. I just wanted to keep the whole thing simple. Actually the only metal that doesn't participate in the electrolysis reaction is platinum (as far as I know) and the best electrolyte is Na2SO4 because this doesn't give off any products other than H2 and O2. When using this electrolyte the water in the cell must be circulated on a regular basis. MJ --------------A9E1843F9494AF7BFDC86C57-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 15:24:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA27861; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:24:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:24:16 -0800 Message-ID: <3852DFB6.372449C4@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 18:35:18 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: energy21 , freenrg-l Subject: [Fwd: Test to prove water theory] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------50696C06428B572918B5A288" Resent-Message-ID: <"kGgQ92.0.Ep6.WqjKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13186 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------50696C06428B572918B5A288 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------50696C06428B572918B5A288 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <384AD485.F2A49654@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 16:09:26 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Interact Subject: Test to prove water theory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'll be as brief as I can. If you would like to test the validity of what I have been saying in regard to the separation of water there is a very simple test that you could do. First we have to think about what happens in generating electricity. We burn a fuel, say hydrogen, in a motor or to heat water in a boiler. Next we use the mechanical energy of the motor or the steam from the boiler to turn a generator. During that process we lose quite a bit of the original energy contained in the fuel that we burn. There isn't any more energy laying around is there? If we match the system up so that it takes all the motor can do to turn the generator we've used up all of the available energy right? Say we use 1 mole of hydrogen to fuel the motor. We know that that mole of H2 releases about 68.32 kcal of energy. We also know we can't get even close to that amount of energy coming out of the generator that the motor is hooked up to right? Ok then. If we pass 68.32 kcal of energy through a separator it will cause the water within it to decompose into 1 mole of H2 and that one mole of H2 (when burned) will release about 68.32 kcal of energy. That means that there should be NO energy left over doesn't it? Why should you even have to ground the separator? My contention is that if you measure the amount of the electricity that is leaving the separator via the ground cable you will find that it is very nearly the amount that you are putting into it. There is the problem. That should be impossible if all of your electricity is being used to separate the water. There you go. Simple test. Build a separator for 5 or 10 bucks,put in some tap water, add some salt, hook it up to a battery (steady power source) and then use a voltmeter to determine the amount of current flowing into the separator and how much is leaving it. If any at all is leaving it I am right and the world has a new source of energy which is cheap, renewable, non-polluting and limitless. This will be my last post here. MJ --------------50696C06428B572918B5A288-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 15:44:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA01649; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:44:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:44:49 -0800 Message-ID: <3852E1EC.7FBBF9A@groupz.net> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 18:44:44 -0500 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: H2 From Water References: <003c01bf4421$c53ecce0$b4b47ed8@mrand> <3852D0C3.ED7D4088@csrlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ynleg2.0.fP.n7kKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13187 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: optimum..for electrolysis of water is around 2 volts for cell...anything over that just causes increase in current through cell...is not a linear thing...over that very little of current used...to split water... so if using 12v would be best if used six cells... but any over one up to twelve would increase electrolysis... over six nothing much more happens....steve "Michael S. Johnston" wrote: > > Hi, > Parts 5 and up are the good ones. Only test I did so far was to hook 3 cells > in line with each other on a 12v 2a battery charger. All 3 cells in the circuit > put out as much gas as they would have if they were the only one. THAT is the > whole secret. > MJ > > mrand wrote: > > > Hi Michael, > > Sounds interesting! Any experimental test data? Did you fuel an engine? > > Regards, Michael Randall > > > > > I'll send it direct. It's big and in 7 parts so I'll just send you 5-7. > > >Yhose are what I consider to be the important ones. > > > MJ > > > > > >Michael T Huffman wrote: > > > > > >> >Hi All, > > >> > I've figured out how to get unlimited H2 from water without violating > > >> >any known laws. Did this by changing perception of problem and applying > > >> >known laws to new perspective. Want to see the paper I wrote on it? > > >> >Either allow me to post on list or e-mail me and I will send it direct. > > >> > MJ > > >> > > >> Sounds interesting. There is a limit to filesizes on the list, which I > > >> think is 40K. I'd like to see it, if nobody else does. > > >> > > >> Knuke > > >> Michael T. Huffman > > >> Huffman Technology Company > > >> 1121 Dustin Drive > > >> The Villages, Florida 32159 > > >> (352)259-1276 > > >> knuke@LCIA.COM > > >> http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 16:44:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA16580; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:44:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:44:39 -0800 Message-ID: <19991212004436.27354.qmail@www0r.netaddress.usa.net> Date: 11 Dec 99 19:44:36 EST From: Horace To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [To Horace:The drawing I posted] X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.4.0.33) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA16556 Resent-Message-ID: <"rzQYo3.0.v24.t_kKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13188 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The answers are filled in between the lines. HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > Horace, > The drawing I posted showing the balance system turning against the > electro-magnets, what I am after is this. Can the DECREASE in current > of the attraction magnet, be offset by the INCREASE in current of the > repulsion magnet and the current stay steady at the energy usage box? Yes, if the coil parameters, distances, magnets are really symmetrical, and magnetic flux interaction between the 2 coils is neglected. > This box could have a light bulb in it for instance. The light bulb would have constant current flowing through it. > Could the coils be > built so that the rotor rotates thru equal but opposite force and no > resistance to turning is experienced Yes, the simultanious attraction and repulsion from these 2 coils would cancel and the rotor would experience net-zero torque. > (as with my permanent magnet balance systems)? I don't know it, so I can't compare. > Also at the same time the voltage current stay the same at the light > bulb due to the equal but opposite changes in the electro-magnets? Yes, see above. > What type of circuit would you see needed to make this possible? Simple parallel connection of the coils with proper polarity. The diodes are not necessary unless the current through a coil reverses direction. This reversal can happen if a magnet in an "attraction mode" is approached quickly to a coil, or a magned in "repulsion mode" is quickly moved away from the coil. In the former two cases, the current through the coil will DECREASE and if the change in flux is fast and large enough and the coil inductance high and resistance low enough compared to the ESR of the power supply, than this decrease in the current, can progress into REVERSING the current through the coil. > (I think I have the positive and negative terminals on the power supply backwards in the drawing.) You don't. > In summary, I want to build a simple force cancellation system as in my video where I use only permanent magnets, but use electromagnets in combination with the permanent magnet rotor. I haven't seen the video, I don't have the players. > At the same time I want to keep the voltage/current to stay > steady to a degree at the light bulb in the circuit. The reason I need > this free turning rotor will be shown later if this system will work as > stated. > This is a very important aspect to further development of a project. > Thanks, > Butch Remember that most of the time the current provided by the power supply is flowing through the coil's resistance you loose energy at a rate of tI^2R in the coil plus you loose energy in the power supply at a rate of tIV (products integrated over time if there are any fluctuations, of course). So if the electric current is just flowing (even for the tiniest time) and doing no useful work such as: building up a magnetic field around the coil or charging a capacitor, than it is a sheer waste of energy. For example when you hook up a discharged coil to a power supply, only during the first moments when the field of the coil is built up, the electricity is doing something useful (building up the field). By the time the current reaches the the I=V/R level all of the work being done by the electric current is to produce heat in the resistance of the coil ! It is even worse because even during the first moments when the field of the coil is being built up, some of the current does work in the resistance of the coil to produce heat, (besides producing the magnetic field) at a instantenious rate of I^2R. So, at the beginning when the coil is starting to charge up and current is low the heat losses are also low, then more and more up to the I=V/R level. It als happens exponentialy So far the drawing you posted represents a unity gain system at best. And if the blue color indicates ferromagnetic material, you have to watch out for eddy currents and "ferromagnetic-overriding" of the repulsion into attraction. (see Wesley Gary concepts for the latter) I can see you have a dream ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 17:30:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA29915; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:30:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:30:33 -0800 Message-ID: <003501bf443f$b569c720$a4affea9@hal-9000> Reply-To: "dwenbert" From: "dwenbert" To: Subject: Re: H2 From Water Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:24:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"cLzVH3.0.IJ7.vglKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13189 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: sno wrote: >optimum..for electrolysis of water is around 2 volts >for cell...anything over that just causes increase in >current through cell...is not a linear thing...over >that very little of current used...to split water... >so if using 12v would be best if used six cells... >but any over one up to twelve would increase electrolysis... >over six nothing much more happens....steve I'm afraid that's not true. The best electrolysis units yet have used high voltage and low current. Pulling the water molecule apart is a question of 'brute force', possibly leveraged by certain electromagnetic resonance effects, which destabilize it into various metastable states. The current must be adequate to fulfill the requirement for electrons arising in the solution, but beyond that it is extraneous. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 20:12:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA31654; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:11:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:11:59 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19991211203308.2fa72912@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:33:08 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [Re: [Question on repulsion of electro-magnet]] In-Reply-To: <19991211132604.17466.qmail@nwcst287.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"9lJOT1.0.Vk7.E2oKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13190 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Horace and all, At 08:26 AM 12/11/99 EST, you wrote: > >In theory an ideal coil does NOT need an external power supply to "do work to >repel the magnet". If zero-R coil is shorted in a loop (or spiral) and a >magnet creating an opposing flux is aproached along the axis of the coil, the >electric current in the windings of the coil will increase WITHOUT the aid of >the power supply. In other words the extra current will NOT come from the >power supply. This is most likely true, but at least in the superconductor windings, the magnetic fields are "frozen". -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 11 20:12:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA31684; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:12:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:12:01 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19991211205156.2fa72912@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:51:56 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [To Horace:The drawing I posted] In-Reply-To: <19991212004436.27354.qmail@www0r.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Freql3.0.yk7.H2oKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13191 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Horace, Butch and all, At 07:44 PM 12/11/99 EST, you wrote: > >The answers are filled in between the lines. > >HLafonte@aol.com wrote: >> Could the coils be >> built so that the rotor rotates thru equal but opposite force and no >> resistance to turning is experienced > >Yes, the simultanious attraction and repulsion from these 2 coils would cancel >and the rotor would experience net-zero torque. Only until the current in the coils change (by the magnets), then there is not balance but drag. > >> (as with my permanent magnet balance systems)? >> This is a very important aspect to further development of a project. >> Thanks, >> Butch > >Remember that most of the time the current provided by the power supply is >flowing through the coil's resistance you loose energy at a rate of tI^2R in >the coil plus you loose energy in the power supply at a rate of tIV (products >integrated over time if there are any fluctuations, of course). > Yes, take a series circuit of a resistance R and a inductance L and switch it to a voltage source V. (Some or all of the R can be contained in the inductance.) One writes: V = I*R +L*dI/dt (As an aside, for a superconductor, R=0 so in this case if V is zero to start with, dI/dt =0) Multiply by I to get the power delivered by the source: V*I = I^2*R +L*I*dI/dt I^2*R is the power dissipated by the R. So the power put into the magnetic field (L) is the other term: L*I*dI/dt. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 12 03:22:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA04736; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 03:22:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 03:22:35 -0800 Message-ID: <00a901bf4493$177220e0$c58c93c3@callaghansystems.demon.co.uk> From: "David Callaghan" To: , "energy21" , "jlnlabs" Subject: Re: [Fwd: Water, Part 5 (continued)] Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 11:21:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"g11X9.0.r91.wLuKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13192 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael If you have 80 lights on a Christmas tree connected in series with a power supply of say 240V, each bulb will be 240V / 80 = 3 volt. Adding more bulbs to the chain WILL decrease the overall brightness, and removing bulbs will increase the brightness. Lets make each lamp draw 10mA. If you connect 80 3V lamps in series you need 240V to light them properly. The power consumed will be 240V * 10mA = 240 * 0.01 = 2.4W If you connect 80 3V lamps in parallel you need 3V to light them properly. The power consumed will be 3V * 10mA * 80 = 3 * 0.01 * 80 = 2.4W Thus, you can see that no matter which way you connect your lamps or electrolysis cells, the power consumption will increase as you add more. Best regards David Callaghan -----Original Message----- From: Michael S. Johnston > As a real world analogy think about those strings of like 300 > Christmas lights. You know, the ones where if one goes out then none of > them will work. Well ok, they use the higher resistance of the wire > inside the light bulb to transform electrical energy into heat and light > energy but it wouldn't matter weather there was one, ten or three > hundred bulbs on the string of lights. They all burn equally bright > don't they? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 12 07:40:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA09776; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 07:40:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 07:40:05 -0800 Message-ID: <19991212154000.20642.qmail@nw178.netaddress.usa.net> Date: 12 Dec 99 10:39:58 EST From: Horace To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [To Horace:The drawing I posted] X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.4.0.33) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA09759 Resent-Message-ID: <"Dy5WQ2.0.fO2.K7yKu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13193 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reference to the drag on the rotor in Butch's drawing: - If the resistance of the coil windings is zero, the drag is also zero. - If the resistance of the coil windings is not zero, the drag is not zero. In case of an ideal coil (zero-R) with current (I0) flowing through it, the coil creates magnetic flux through and around it, and opposes ANY changes to that flux. The magnetic field created by such coil is identical to the magnetic field created by a hard permanent magnet. 1a. Any permanent magnet approaching the above coil in "repulsion mode" will be repelled from the coil with a certain force F1. (the current in the coil will increase proportionaly (from I0 to I1) to keep the coil-flux constant). With zero-R coil, the increased current (I1) would be maintained if the magnet stopped moving after approaching. 1b. Any permanent magnet moving away from the above coil in "repulsion mode" will be repelled from the coil with a certain force F2. (the current in the coil will decrease proportionaly (from I1 to I0) to keep the coil-flux constant). 2a. Any permanent magnet approaching the above coil in "attraction mode" will be attracted to the coil with a certain force F3. (the current in the coil will decreasee proportionaly (from I0 to I2) to keep the coil-flux constant). With zero-R coil, the decreased current (I2) would be maintained if the magnet stopped moving after approaching. 2b. Any permanent magnet moving away from the above coil in "attraction mode" will be attracted to the coil with a certain force F4. (the current in the coil will increase proportionaly (from I2 to I0) to keep the coil-flux constant). Remarks: With an ideal coil - Forces F1=F2 and F3=F4, so there is no net momentum / torque / energy, losss or gain. - The absolute value of current increase in pt.1a = current decrease in pt.1b - The absolute value of current decrease in pt.2a = current increase in pt.2b With real-world coil: - Forces F1, F2, F3, F4 depend on the rate of approach, resistance, inductance. If the F1>F2 or F3 wrote: > Hi Horace, Butch and all, > At 07:44 PM 12/11/99 EST, you wrote: > > > >The answers are filled in between the lines. > > > >HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > >> Could the coils be > >> built so that the rotor rotates thru equal but opposite force and no > >> resistance to turning is experienced > > > >Yes, the simultanious attraction and repulsion from these 2 coils would > cancel > >and the rotor would experience net-zero torque. > > Only until the current in the coils change (by the magnets), then there is > not balance but drag. > > ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 12 16:14:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA18005; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:14:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:14:41 -0800 Message-ID: <19991213001440.15631.qmail@.netaddress.usa.net> Date: 12 Dec 99 19:14:40 EST From: Horace To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Help with mechanics problem X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.4.0.33) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA17982 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ejmux1.0.9P4.nf3Lu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13194 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A weight having mass (m) is hanging vertically from a string. An ideal massless pulley changes the direction of the string from vertical to horizontal. One layer of the string is wound on a massless spool of radius (R). The falling weight pulls the string that unwinds from the spool turning it with angular acceleration (b). A point mass (n) is attached to the common shaft with the spool by perpendicular massless rod of length (x). The rod and the mass (n) spinning about the shaft have a moment of inertia equal to (I=nx^2) ---- (view this drawing with a monospaced font) ---- rod ** |--------|**| spinning point mass | ** |shaft ___|___ |===| string |===|____________ __ _|___|_ / \ spool | | \ __ /| pulley | | | |string | | | _|_ / \ /_____\ weight The following equations describe the system above: [units] a = Linear acceleration of the spool's circumference and the acceleration of the weight and string [m/s^2] b = Angular acceleration of the common shaft, spool, spinning rod & mass [rad/s^2] c = Radial linear acceleration or centripetal acceleration (n*c = so called: centrifugal force) [m/s^2] T = Torque on the common shaft [N*m] F = Tension force of the string [N] v = Linear velocity of the spool's circumference and the velocity of the weight and string [m/s] w = Angular velocity of the common shaft, spool, spinning rod & mass [rad/s] R = Radius of the spool [m] m = Mass of the weight hanging verticaly on the string [kg] n = Spinning mass attached to the end of the rod [kg] x = Length of the rod [m] I = Moment of inertia of the spinning rod & mass [kg*m^2] g = Gravitational acceleration [m/s^2] t = time [s] ma = mg - F {Newton's 2nd law} a = bR = g/( 1+(I/((R^2)m)) ) b = a/R = g/( R+(I/Rm) ) c = (w^2)R =(v^2)/R T = Ib = g/( (R/I)+(1/Rm) ) F = Ib/R = g/( ((R^2)/I)+(1/m) ) v = at = gt/( 1+(I/((R^2)m)) ) w = bt = gt/( R+(I/Rm) ) I = n(x^2) In the following system, the rod from the previous system is substituted by an ideal spring having a stretching coeficient (k) Mass (n) is restricted to movement only along the extension line of the spring. As the angular velocity (w) increases, the spring is subjected to virtual centrifugal force (n*c). The spring balances this force in such a way that (nc = kx), stretching itself by length (x) equal to (x=nc/k) At the same time, the spinning mass (n) moving radialy by the distance (x), increases the moment of inertia (I) in such a way that (I=n(x^2)). The increasing moment of inerta (I) causes the decrease in angular acceleration (b) and future instantenious velocities (w). spring ** |-/\/\/\-|**| spinning point mass | ** |shaft ___|___ |===| string |===|____________ __ _|___|_ / \ spool | | \ __ /| pulley | | | |string | | | _|_ / \ /_____\ weight where: x = Spring's strech distance [m] k = Spring stretch coefficient (aka. spring constant) [N/m] kx = nc x = nc/k PROBLEM 1: Expess algebraically the function w(t)=??? for the system described above... PROBLEM 2: Expess algebraically the function w(t)=??? for the system described above accounting for Coriolis acceleration (2w(dx/dt)) Is anyone good enough to help me with these problems ? Horace ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 12 16:25:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA22838; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:25:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:25:15 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <0.b8c7504.258596e3@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:25:07 EST Subject: Horace, thanks for help To: horacex@usa.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, energy21@listbot.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"BMPoz1.0.la5.gp3Lu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13195 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace, Thank you so much for your time and effort. You saved no telling how much time, and effort for me. Before I go ahead with the project I just want to clairify one thing. If the coils are super-conducting, and the rotor is turning at say 20 RPM, then the light bulb should experience a steady voltage/current to a very large degree. Thanks again, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 12 16:31:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA26580; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:31:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:31:52 -0800 Message-ID: <3854411A.274B75B2@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:43:06 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: energy21 , jlnlabs Subject: Re: [Fwd: Water, Part 5 (continued)] References: <00a901bf4493$177220e0$c58c93c3@callaghansystems.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7BC84C5064F2126574B5C01A" Resent-Message-ID: <"xXAnR.0.DV6.tv3Lu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13196 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7BC84C5064F2126574B5C01A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I didn't mean there would be NO difference, what I meant was that one bulb more or less won't crash the whole system. MJ David Callaghan wrote: > Michael > > If you have 80 lights on a Christmas tree connected in series with a power > supply of say 240V, each bulb will be 240V / 80 = 3 volt. Adding more bulbs > to the chain WILL decrease the overall brightness, and removing bulbs will > increase the brightness. > > Lets make each lamp draw 10mA. > > If you connect 80 3V lamps in series you need 240V to light them properly. > The power consumed will be > 240V * 10mA = 240 * 0.01 = 2.4W > > If you connect 80 3V lamps in parallel you need 3V to light them properly. > The power consumed will be > 3V * 10mA * 80 = 3 * 0.01 * 80 = 2.4W > > Thus, you can see that no matter which way you connect your lamps or > electrolysis cells, the power consumption will increase as you add more. > > Best regards > > David Callaghan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael S. Johnston > > > As a real world analogy think about those strings of like 300 > > Christmas lights. You know, the ones where if one goes out then none of > > them will work. Well ok, they use the higher resistance of the wire > > inside the light bulb to transform electrical energy into heat and light > > energy but it wouldn't matter weather there was one, ten or three > > hundred bulbs on the string of lights. They all burn equally bright > > don't they? --------------7BC84C5064F2126574B5C01A Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Michael S. Johnston Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Michael S. Johnston n: ;Michael S. Johnston org: My site http://1dove.com/msj/ email;internet: enki@csrlink.net title: Jim's Free Energy Site http://geocities.com/frenrg/ x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------7BC84C5064F2126574B5C01A-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 12 16:38:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA29476; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:37:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:37:58 -0800 Message-ID: <19991213004136.24842.qmail@nwcst285.netaddress.usa.net> Date: 12 Dec 99 19:41:36 EST From: Horace To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Horace, thanks for help] X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.4.0.33) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA29458 Resent-Message-ID: <"Rhh6U2.0.TC7.c_3Lu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13197 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To your question --> Yes ... even more..., the light bulb shall experience steady voltage/current EVEN IF the coils are NOT superconducting and have for example 100ohms. The current through the bulb in such case will be steady Vin/100ohms. The resistance will have an effect on the back drag, though. HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > Horace, > Thank you so much for your time and effort. You saved no telling how much > time, and effort for me. Before I go ahead with the project I just want to > clairify one thing. If the coils are super-conducting, and the rotor is > turning at say 20 RPM, then the light bulb should experience a steady > voltage/current to a very large degree. > Thanks again, > Butch ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 12 16:46:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA02149; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:46:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:46:21 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <0.9d3cd9f5.25859bd2@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:46:10 EST Subject: Re: [Horace, thanks for help] To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"P6hj93.0.PX.S74Lu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13198 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 12/12/99 6:38:56 PM Central Standard Time, horacex@usa.net writes: > The resistance will have an effect on the back drag, though. Horace, But if the coils are superconducting, the rotor should not experience any drag, correct? Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 12 16:48:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA04038; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:48:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:48:51 -0800 Message-ID: <19991213004854.12970.qmail@nwcst312.netaddress.usa.net> Date: 12 Dec 99 19:48:54 EST From: Horace To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, energy21@listbot.com Subject: Help with mechanics problem X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.4.0.33) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA04021 Resent-Message-ID: <"kgQk9.0._-.p94Lu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13199 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A weight having mass (m) is hanging vertically from a string. An ideal massless pulley changes the direction of the string from vertical to horizontal. One layer of the string is wound on a massless spool of radius (R). The falling weight pulls the string that unwinds from the spool turning it with angular acceleration (b). A point mass (n) is attached to the common shaft with the spool by perpendicular massless rod of length (x). The rod and the mass (n) spinning about the shaft have a moment of inertia equal to (I=nx^2) ---- (view this drawing with a monospaced font) ---- rod ** |--------|**| spinning point mass | ** |shaft ___|___ |===| string |===|____________ __ _|___|_ / \ spool | | \ __ /| pulley | | | |string | | | _|_ / \ /_____\ weight The following equations describe the system above: [units] a = Linear acceleration of the spool's circumference and the acceleration of the weight and string [m/s^2] b = Angular acceleration of the common shaft, spool, spinning rod & mass [rad/s^2] c = Radial linear acceleration or centripetal acceleration (n*c = so called: centrifugal force) [m/s^2] T = Torque on the common shaft [N*m] F = Tension force of the string [N] v = Linear velocity of the spool's circumference and the velocity of the weight and string [m/s] w = Angular velocity of the common shaft, spool, spinning rod & mass [rad/s] R = Radius of the spool [m] m = Mass of the weight hanging verticaly on the string [kg] n = Spinning mass attached to the end of the rod [kg] x = Length of the rod [m] I = Moment of inertia of the spinning rod & mass [kg*m^2] g = Gravitational acceleration [m/s^2] t = time [s] ma = mg - F {Newton's 2nd law} a = bR = g/( 1+(I/((R^2)m)) ) b = a/R = g/( R+(I/Rm) ) c = (w^2)R =(v^2)/R T = Ib = g/( (R/I)+(1/Rm) ) F = Ib/R = g/( ((R^2)/I)+(1/m) ) v = at = gt/( 1+(I/((R^2)m)) ) w = bt = gt/( R+(I/Rm) ) I = n(x^2) In the following system, the rod from the previous system is substituted by an ideal spring having a stretching coeficient (k) Mass (n) is restricted to movement only along the extension line of the spring. As the angular velocity (w) increases, the spring is subjected to virtual centrifugal force (n*c). The spring balances this force in such a way that (nc = kx), stretching itself by length (x) equal to (x=nc/k) At the same time, the spinning mass (n) moving radialy by the distance (x), increases the moment of inertia (I) in such a way that (I=n(x^2)). The increasing moment of inerta (I) causes the decrease in angular acceleration (b) and future instantenious velocities (w). spring ** |-/\/\/\-|**| spinning point mass | ** |shaft ___|___ |===| string |===|____________ __ _|___|_ / \ spool | | \ __ /| pulley | | | |string | | | _|_ / \ /_____\ weight where: x = Spring's strech distance [m] k = Spring stretch coefficient (aka. spring constant) [N/m] kx = nc x = nc/k PROBLEM 1: Expess algebraically the function w(t)=??? for the system described above... PROBLEM 2: Expess algebraically the function w(t)=??? for the system described above accounting for Coriolis acceleration (2w(dx/dt)) Is anyone good enough to help me with these problems ? Horace ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 12 17:47:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA20234; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 17:47:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 17:47:44 -0800 Message-ID: <19991213014724.21828.qmail@nw128.netaddress.usa.net> Date: 12 Dec 99 20:47:24 EST From: Horace To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Question on repulsion of electro-magnet] X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.4.0.33) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA20182 Resent-Message-ID: <"8Dd6-1.0.xx4.z05Lu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13200 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Correct When the coil windings have no resistance they store and give away magnetic and electrical energy without losses. The force of attraction/repulsion when approaching such coil is the same as when moving away from such coil. The net mechanical work is zero, net back-drag is zero. Charged superconductiong coil behaves identically to a hard permanent magnet. Maybe a real permanent magnet consists of zillions of aligned electron current loops with zero R :-) In a message dated 12/12/99 6:52:14 PM Central Standard Time, HLafonte@aol.com writes: >Horace, >But if the coils are superconducting, the rotor should not experience any >drag, correct? >Thanks, Butch In a message dated 12/12/99 6:38:56 PM Central Standard Time, horacex@usa.net writes: >> The resistance will have an effect on the back drag, though. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 12 18:11:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA28819; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 18:11:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 18:11:32 -0800 Message-ID: <3854586A.E825B0E5@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:22:34 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: energy21 , freenrg-l , Jim Subject: Acouple of gnarly weapons Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------AB512756895AC9CC692ABD45" Resent-Message-ID: <"BmQDp2.0.C27.KN5Lu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13201 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AB512756895AC9CC692ABD45 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I couldn't let this go without hypothesizing about some potential weapons of mass destruction which could come out of this kind of technology (H2O). Did you read the weird science thing I did about spontaneous human combustion? Well ok, let's take it to the next level. What if we could cause water to decompose into it's basic parts by using an electromagnetic field of the right strength or frequency or some combination of those two things? We could then concievably build a weapon which would decompose the water in your body and when the raw O2 hit your fat cells,.....WHOOSH...you go up in a ball of flame! If you build a bigger one then you could do in whole armies or cities. Or what if you could focus it somehow? Narrow it down to say the size of an airplane? Like flight 800 maybe? What if you put it on a satellite? You could incinerate all living things in a specific area. Or what if you put it on a ship? Then you could do the nice salty ocean around an enemy ship and start the ocean on fire and melt the ship. Just a couple thoughts.hehehe MJ --------------AB512756895AC9CC692ABD45 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Michael S. Johnston Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Michael S. Johnston n: ;Michael S. Johnston org: My site http://1dove.com/msj/ email;internet: enki@csrlink.net title: Jim's Free Energy Site http://geocities.com/frenrg/ x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------AB512756895AC9CC692ABD45-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 12 19:24:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA18288; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:24:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:24:17 -0800 Message-ID: <3854697B.EDDBB1FD@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 22:35:23 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: energy21 , freenrg-l , jlnlabs Subject: [Fwd: Dangers in Electrolyzing salt water] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------AA8BA52EE4A878FEDA28D337" Resent-Message-ID: <"QioMY.0.aT4.XR6Lu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13202 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AA8BA52EE4A878FEDA28D337 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------AA8BA52EE4A878FEDA28D337 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from server.Lyghtforce.com (lyghtforce.com [216.60.190.1]) by uplink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA21871 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 22:14:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from p38.amax36.dialup.dal2.flash.net by server.Keelynet.com (NTList 3.03.0017) id xa459157; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:11:51 -0600 Message-ID: <38546522.F3D79C5D@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:16:50 -0600 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@Keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: interact@Keelynet.com Subject: Dangers in Electrolyzing salt water Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Info: Interact on Keelynet Discussion List Errors-To: jdecker@Keelynet.com X-ListMember: enki@csrlink.net [interact@Keelynet.com] Hi Folks! As many of you know, all posts to this list are publicly archived and free to search and view at; http://www.escribe.com/science/keelynet/ Many people do not choose to subscribe but do check out the posts periodically. Some even write emails if they have something to offer or want to share with the list. One of these people is someone whose opinion I and many others respect and he was somewhat disturbed with the recent posts about electrolyzing salt water, and voiced his concerns when he wrote; > .....these absurd hydrogen posts are going to kill somebody. > Electrolyzing salt water generates deadly chlorine gas. > and suggests it be clearly stated so that anyone who might be tempted to experiment with any of these claims, be very aware of the hazards; > Posting a warning that electrolyzing salt water may liberate chlorine > gas might be appropriate.. So I'm posting his concerns in the interest of safety. -- Jerry Wayne Decker - jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com from an Art to a Science Voice : (214)324-8741 - FAX : (214)324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 ------------------------------------------------------------- To leave this list, email with the body text: leave Interact list archives and on line subscription forms are at http://keelynet.com/interact/ ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------AA8BA52EE4A878FEDA28D337 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Michael S. Johnston Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Michael S. Johnston n: ;Michael S. Johnston org: My site http://1dove.com/msj/ email;internet: enki@csrlink.net title: Jim's Free Energy Site http://geocities.com/frenrg/ x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------AA8BA52EE4A878FEDA28D337-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 12 19:39:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA24792; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:39:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:39:11 -0800 Message-ID: <38546CF7.AF8BC6F8@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 22:50:16 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdecker@Keelynet.com, energy21 , freenrg-l , jlnlabs CC: interact@Keelynet.com Subject: Re: Dangers in Electrolyzing salt water References: <38546522.F3D79C5D@keelynet.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4123FCB9C996FC0DF1D2457E" Resent-Message-ID: <"ieU7c3.0.H36.Uf6Lu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13203 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4123FCB9C996FC0DF1D2457E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh yeah, as long as we're at it we might as well throw in some additional safety hints regarding DEADLY CHLORINE GAS! 1) If you are cleaning the house don't mix bleach and ammonia. This releases DEADLY CHLORINE GAS! 2) If your puppy pisses on the floor don't clean it up with ammonia. This releases DEADLY CHLORINE GAS! 3) If your tomcat "sprays" your furniture don't use bleach to clean it up ( I believe semen is alkaline). This could release DEADLY CHLORINE GAS! My god, with all this DEADLY CHLORINE GAS around us it's a wonder any of us lives past birth. MJ Jerry W. Decker wrote: > Hi Folks! > > As many of you know, all posts to this list are publicly > archived and free to search and view at; > > http://www.escribe.com/science/keelynet/ > > Many people do not choose to subscribe but do check out the > posts periodically. > Some even write emails if they have something to offer or > want to share with the list. > > One of these people is someone whose opinion I and many > others respect and he was somewhat disturbed with the recent > posts about electrolyzing salt water, and voiced his > concerns when he wrote; > > > .....these absurd hydrogen posts are going to kill somebody. > > Electrolyzing salt water generates deadly chlorine gas. > > > > and suggests it be clearly stated so that anyone who might > be tempted to experiment with any of these claims, be very > aware of the hazards; > > > Posting a warning that electrolyzing salt water may liberate chlorine > > gas might be appropriate.. > > So I'm posting his concerns in the interest of safety. > > -- > Jerry Wayne Decker - jdecker@keelynet.com > http://www.keelynet.com > from an Art to a Science > Voice : (214)324-8741 - FAX : (214)324-3501 > KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 > Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > To leave this list, email > with the body text: leave Interact > list archives and on line subscription forms are at > http://keelynet.com/interact/ > ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------4123FCB9C996FC0DF1D2457E Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Michael S. Johnston Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Michael S. Johnston n: ;Michael S. Johnston org: My site http://1dove.com/msj/ email;internet: enki@csrlink.net title: Jim's Free Energy Site http://geocities.com/frenrg/ x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------4123FCB9C996FC0DF1D2457E-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 12 20:56:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA17176; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:56:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:56:29 -0800 Message-ID: <19991213045626.94641.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [63.28.80.114] From: "Timothy Flytcher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Dangers in Electrolyzing salt water Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:56:26 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"fmrOu2.0.CC4.yn7Lu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13204 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >2) If your puppy pisses on the floor don't clean it up with ammonia. This >releases DEADLY CHLORINE GAS! Hold on I thought urine contains ammonia???? not bleach???? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 12 23:57:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA23460; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:57:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:57:46 -0800 Message-ID: <002901bf453e$f884b9c0$effdfea9@hal-9000> Reply-To: "dwenbert" From: "dwenbert" To: Subject: Re: Dangers in Electrolyzing salt water Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 02:52:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Hiapd.0.Sk5.vRALu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13205 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: That "DEADLY CHLORINE GAS" is the closest thing to overunity/free energy that can readily be proven to exist. When Hydrogen is burned with Chlorine as the oxidizer instead of Oxygen, the reaction energy can be economically and *profoundly* increased through the photoactivation and then photoionization of the Chlorine, prior to combustion. The "classic" steady state reaction energy of 22 KCal/Mole H2 for the HCL reaction vs 56 KCal/Mole H2 with O is a bogus number! Chlorine has a Quantum Efficiency of from 1x10E5 to 5x10E7 reactions [catalyzed] PER PHOTON of electromagnetic input energy, which means that a little bit of light, at the right wavelength, goes a LONG way in leveraging additional chemical kinetics and thermal energy output. In a metastable state, the HCL reaction energy has been observed to be 246 KCal/Mole H2, with MUCH higher values detected in transients, once the first ionization state is achieved. It is *THE* most powerful chemical reaction known, bar none, and very likely has 'low energy nuclear reactions' within the combusting plasma front as the reaction propagates. The bottom line is that Chlorine's photosensitivity is the ideal way to convert incident solar radiation to useful energy, by irradiating it and then reacting it with the hydrogen. But, even using an artificial light source (i.e. an unshielded Mercury Vapor lamp capsule), the process is so phenomenally efficient that your energy in is negligible vs. the additional energy out thus catalyzed. It is a tricky process with many finicky variables, and it *IS* definately *NOT* "safe", but it is probably the best way to get to free energy. If you play with this, the toxic Chlorine gas fumes are the LEAST of your worries. Be Afraid. Be Very Afraid. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 13 05:52:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA29240; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 05:52:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 05:52:40 -0800 Message-Id: <199912131357.LAA09869@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:14:26 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [Question on repulsion of electro-magnet] Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19991213014724.21828.qmail@nw128.netaddress.usa.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Resent-Message-ID: <"FRwum1.0.n87.eeFLu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13206 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > When the coil windings have no resistance they store and give away magnetic > and electrical energy without losses. The force of attraction/repulsion when > approaching such coil is the same as when moving away from such coil. The net > mechanical work is zero, net back-drag is zero. Will the magnitude of this force be related to the size ( inductance ) of the coil ? > Charged superconductiong coil behaves identically to a hard permanent magnet. > Maybe a real permanent magnet consists of zillions of aligned electron current > loops with zero R :-) > Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br ------------------------------------------- Get paid to surf the WEB ! Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet ! http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608 ------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 13 06:53:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA15576; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 06:53:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 06:53:02 -0800 Message-ID: <38550807.12476C5D@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 16:51:51 +0200 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,tr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex , freenrg Subject: Instruction for the making of the perpetuum mobile is enclosed. (physics/9912022) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vtOig.0.9p3.DXGLu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13207 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, This is not the title of the paper of released today on LANL archive. I tried a "journalist style". But I am not lying. http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/9912022 From: Nikulov Alexey Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 04:51:44 GMT (15kb) About Perpetuum Mobile without Emotions Authors: A.V.Nikulov One of the oldest science problems - possibility of the perpetuum mobile is discussed. The interest to this problem was provoke a result, published in J. Low Temp.Phys. 112, 227 (1998); cond-mat/9811148, which contradicts to the second law of thermodynamics. According to this result, the thermal fluctuations can induce a voltage with direct component in a inhomogeneous superconducting ring at an unaltered temperature corresponded to the resistive transition of the ring segment with the lowest critical temperature. This result arises from obvious statements: 1) the switching of a ring segment $l_{b}$ into and out of the normal state, while the rest of the ring (segment $l_{a}$) remains superconducting, can induced a voltage with dc component (It is shown that, in spite of the wide spread opinion, this statement is correct because the superconductivity is a macroscopic quantum phenomena); 2) the thermal fluctuations switch the mesoscopic ring segment $l_{b}$ with lowest critical temperature $T_{sb}$ into and out of the normal state at $T \simeq T_{sb}$, while the rest of the ring remains superconducting if $T_{sa} > T \simeq T_{sb}$. In order to resolve the contradiction between these obvious statements and the second law of thermodynamics a possibility of the second order perpetuum mobile is considered theoretically. It is shown that from two type of the perpetuum mobile, only type "b" and only in quantum systems is possible. According to the presented interpretation, the total entropy, as the measure of the chaos, may be systematically reduced in some quantum system because a "switching" between the classical and quantum mechanics is possible. Instruction for the making of the perpetuum mobile is enclosed. Paper: Source (15kb), PostScript, or Other formats Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 13 07:22:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA27966; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 07:22:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 07:22:25 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:17:17 -0500 Subject: Sig Figs Message-ID: <19991213.101725.-503995.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,10-15 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"c1M3q2.0.pq6.nyGLu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13208 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mr Johnson, Haven't you ever heard of significant figures? I just finished reading the first part of your hydrogen from water paper. When you compared the results of your calculations, you kept more digits than "SD" would allow. Although you made a brief recognition of conservation of energy, you then implied that even such a slight difference between them shows that more energy is released than is put in. Using sig figs, you would have realized that the difference between the two figures is absolutely insignificant, nonexistent even. Unfortunately, this supposed difference forms the crux of your argument. Please use math correctly if you use it at all! -Tom Grimes P.S.: Copper oxidizes, too. If you wanted to use Na2SO4, you could make it by mixing NaHCO3 (sodium bicarbonate, baking soda) with CuSO4 (copper 2 sulfate), using, of course, the proper stoichiometric proportions. The products of this reaction are H2 (g) and Na2SO4 (aq) and CuCO3 (s). Filter out the copper 2 carbonate. ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 13 11:09:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA24295; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:09:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:09:23 -0800 Message-ID: <001d01bf459c$bbfe8ea0$32c8fea9@hal-9000> Reply-To: "dwenbert" From: "dwenbert" To: "freenrg-l" , "Robin van Spaandonk" Subject: Photokinetic Chlorine Reactions (was "Dangers in Electrolyzing salt water") Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:03:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"VpvyO.0.Wx5.ZHKLu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13209 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin Wrote: >I know the shuttle boosters produce some pretty noxious gasses. Given that >NASA doesn't appear to care much whether or not noxious gasses are produced, >I'm rather surprised that they don't employ LCl2/LH2 in the main shuttle >engines. The energy density of the process would force the *radical* redesign of launch systems and spacecraft. You are right that the SRBs produce copious amounts of HCL from the Ammonium Perchlorate used in the soild propellant gel, but there is a lot of politics involved in the idea of scrapping 50 years worth of their favored technologies (and the contractors who supply them). The fact that a manned mision could make the Earth/Mars transit in 3 days at 1-g given this type of system seems quite lost on them. Go Figure. >There are some old patents that makes use of this (3998205, 4024715, >4026112, and 4175381). Given that you have worked with it, perhaps you could clear up a point for >me. The initial patents all use Sun light to trigger the reaction. However >at least one of the later patents uses UV lights. Presumably the UV lights >consume power, yet the HCl is recycled. This appears to imply that the >process is OU, yet it isn't stated in so many words. Is this the case, or do >the gasses eventually get consumed? Perhaps less rapidly than one might >expect given the published enthalpy of formation? The process *IS* Overunity. There is a negligable amount of energy used in supplying the electromagnetic radiation involved, in the UV/X-ray portion of the spectrum. The quantum yield (number of exothermic reactions catalyzed by each photon of such radiation absorbed by the Chlorine) is so great (from 10,000 to 50,000,000) that the energy cost of the UV source hardly registers, in relation to the result. The argument for using solar energy is that it has fairly good spectral characteristics for this, and it makes a dandy way to convert solar energy into something useful. The gases do not need to be consumed. The energy sink is not the UV radiation source, it is the electrolysis to break the Hydrogen and Chlorine out of solution; the original inventor of this solar reactor technology, and I, and others, have been waiting many years for a more efficient form of electrolysis to come along, so that the cycle can be made closed and reliable. It can be done with conventional electrolysis, but you get into materials science/corrosion issues that are expensive to resolve. A neutralization bath of sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide (resulting from the electrolysis of NaCl or KCl) must be used to stifle the higly corrosive exhaust. As you might imagine, we are watching the potassium work being done by Dr. Mills with great interest. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 13 12:41:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA21183; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:41:02 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:41:02 -0800 (PST) From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sig Figs Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:37:41 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <5qla5ssb0kdu6hfbf5ins2paon2tutbh8k@4ax.com> References: <19991213.101725.-503995.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <19991213.101725.-503995.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id MAA21140 Resent-Message-ID: <"HulH73.0.mA5.QdLLu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13210 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:17:17 -0500, tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: [snip] >P.S.: Copper oxidizes, too. If you wanted to use Na2SO4, you could make >it by mixing NaHCO3 (sodium bicarbonate, baking soda) with CuSO4 (copper >2 sulfate), using, of course, the proper stoichiometric proportions. The >products of this reaction are H2 (g) and Na2SO4 (aq) and CuCO3 (s). >Filter out the copper 2 carbonate. [snip] I'm not sure what you are implying is the reductor in the above. Note that in NaHCO3, the hydrogen is H+ while in H2 it has been reduced. I would think that a more likely result would be the production of NaHSO4, though I doubt you would achieve complete separation, as NaHSO4 is more acidic than NaHCO3, so I think you would end up with a buffer solution containing a bit of everything. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 13 12:51:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA27854; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:51:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:51:50 -0800 Message-ID: <004c01bf45ab$35097680$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: Instruction for the making of the perpetuum mobile is enclosed. (physics/9912022) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:47:00 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"v1p2Q2.0.2p6.bnLLu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13211 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I don't quite follow it, but it sounds interesting... scottb -----Original Message----- From: hamdi ucar To: vortex ; freenrg Date: Monday, December 13, 1999 6:55 AM Subject: Instruction for the making of the perpetuum mobile is enclosed. (physics/9912022) >Hi, > >This is not the title of the paper of released today on LANL archive. I tried a "journalist style". But I am not lying. > >http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/9912022 > >From: Nikulov Alexey >Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 04:51:44 GMT (15kb) > >About Perpetuum Mobile without Emotions > >Authors: A.V.Nikulov > > One of the oldest science problems - possibility of the perpetuum mobile is > discussed. The interest to this problem was provoke a result, published in J. > Low Temp.Phys. 112, 227 (1998); cond-mat/9811148, which contradicts to the > second law of thermodynamics. According to this result, the thermal > fluctuations can induce a voltage with direct component in a inhomogeneous > superconducting ring at an unaltered temperature corresponded to the > resistive transition of the ring segment with the lowest critical temperature. > This result arises from obvious statements: 1) the switching of a ring segment > $l_{b}$ into and out of the normal state, while the rest of the ring (segment > $l_{a}$) remains superconducting, can induced a voltage with dc component > (It is shown that, in spite of the wide spread opinion, this statement is correct > because the superconductivity is a macroscopic quantum phenomena); 2) the > thermal fluctuations switch the mesoscopic ring segment $l_{b}$ with lowest > critical temperature $T_{sb}$ into and out of the normal state at $T \simeq > T_{sb}$, while the rest of the ring remains superconducting if $T_{sa} > T > \simeq T_{sb}$. In order to resolve the contradiction between these obvious > statements and the second law of thermodynamics a possibility of the second > order perpetuum mobile is considered theoretically. It is shown that from two > type of the perpetuum mobile, only type "b" and only in quantum systems is > possible. According to the presented interpretation, the total entropy, as the > measure of the chaos, may be systematically reduced in some quantum > system because a "switching" between the classical and quantum mechanics > is possible. Instruction for the making of the perpetuum mobile is enclosed. > >Paper: Source (15kb), PostScript, or Other formats > > >Regards, >hamdi ucar > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 13 13:25:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA07403; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:25:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:25:15 -0800 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-3-dyn26.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.191.182.89] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:25:08 -0800 (PST) From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: RE: Instruction for the making of the perpetuum mobile is enclosed. (physics/9912022) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:14:40 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <38550807.12476C5D@verisoft.com.tr> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"juLuo1.0.Up1.wGMLu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13212 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Hamdi, This is quite interesting since I have seen several patents claiming OU from use of superconducting materials. One was an Ecklin-style "flux shield" which used a superconducting shield in (relative) motion to a magnet and inductor. His test reulsts claimed about 150 percent efficiency. The other was a Japanese patent which simply placed a helical coil above the surface of a superconductor maintained at the transition temperature. It didn't give much english detail. I unfortunately didn't make a record of these patents so I will have to go back and find them again. Fred > > This is not the title of the paper of released today on LANL > archive. I tried a "journalist style". But I am not lying. > > http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/9912022 > > From: Nikulov Alexey > Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 04:51:44 GMT (15kb) > > About Perpetuum Mobile without Emotions > > Authors: A.V.Nikulov > > One of the oldest science problems - possibility of the > perpetuum mobile is > discussed. The interest to this problem was provoke a result, > published in J. > Low Temp.Phys. 112, 227 (1998); cond-mat/9811148, which > contradicts to the > second law of thermodynamics. According to this result, the thermal > fluctuations can induce a voltage with direct component in a > inhomogeneous > superconducting ring at an unaltered temperature corresponded to the > resistive transition of the ring segment with the lowest > critical temperature. > This result arises from obvious statements: 1) the switching > of a ring segment > $l_{b}$ into and out of the normal state, while the rest of > the ring (segment > $l_{a}$) remains superconducting, can induced a voltage with > dc component > (It is shown that, in spite of the wide spread opinion, this > statement is correct > because the superconductivity is a macroscopic quantum > phenomena); 2) the > thermal fluctuations switch the mesoscopic ring segment > $l_{b}$ with lowest > critical temperature $T_{sb}$ into and out of the normal state > at $T \simeq > T_{sb}$, while the rest of the ring remains superconducting if > $T_{sa} > T > \simeq T_{sb}$. In order to resolve the contradiction between > these obvious > statements and the second law of thermodynamics a possibility > of the second > order perpetuum mobile is considered theoretically. It is > shown that from two > type of the perpetuum mobile, only type "b" and only in > quantum systems is > possible. According to the presented interpretation, the total > entropy, as the > measure of the chaos, may be systematically reduced in some quantum > system because a "switching" between the classical and quantum > mechanics > is possible. Instruction for the making of the perpetuum > mobile is enclosed. > > Paper: Source (15kb), PostScript, or Other formats > > > Regards, > hamdi ucar > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 13 15:00:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA10509; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 15:00:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 15:00:14 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 17:53:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Sig Figs Message-ID: <19991213.175350.-339061.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,6-10,16-17,34-35,40-43,45-46 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4ZKvL1.0.6a2.zfNLu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13213 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: "I'm not sure what you are implying is the reductor in the above. Note that in NaHCO3, the hydrogen is H+ while in H2 it has been reduced. I would think that a more likely result would be the production of NaHSO4, though I doubt you would achieve complete separation, as NaHSO4 is more acidic than NaHCO3, so I think you would end up with a buffer solution containing a bit of everything." No, that is not the case. It is true, I did not adequately inspect this reaction when I wrote this post. I can be blamed for incompleteness here. Also, the wording is a bit ambiguous; I was in a hurry. What I meant in the first sentence, that copper is not a good choice of electrode even if it is readily available, is totally unconnected with the rest of the postscript. Although the reaction as I implied it does not occur, it does still form NaSO4. I discovered that mixing aqueous solutions of CuSO4 and NaHCO3 produces a blue precipitate and a gas (it bubbled profusely) and that it was neutral or basic, because if the solution produced was acidic then the bubbling would have continued no matter how much bicarbonate I put in, but it stopped after I added a certain amount. To account for these observations, I assumed the gas to be H2 (I could have seen that it wasn't if I would only have tried to burn it!) so as to get rid of the H in HCO3- and the blue solid to contain Cu(x+) ions. Once I received your post, I immediately wrote out and balanced the reaction equation assuming that the gas produced was CO2 (which is more logical upon inspection); I verified it by holding a flame over the reaction, which is pretty vigorous: the flame was extinguished by the gas, indicating the presence of CO2 and a lack of H2 or O2. If CO2 forms, then that leaves H and O to deal with, but they must be in the form of water since the gas did not combust. This is my proposed net reaction: CuSO4 (aq) + 2 NaHCO3 (aq) -> Na2SO4 (aq) + CuCO3 (s) + H2O (l) + CO2 (g) If, as you proposed, NaHSO4 had formed, the reaction would be: CuSO4 (aq) + NaHCO3 (aq) -> CuCO3 (s) + NaHSO4 (aq) and NO GAS WOULD BE PRODUCED! This would contradict experimental evidence. Not only that, but HCO3 is the anion and it would not make sense for the H to be associated with the Na+ ion. BTW, when allowed to dry, the solution produces flat, circular crystals. I am ashamed to say that I have been guilty of not completely checking my assertations; how many times have I deplored that very vice! -Tom Grimes ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 13 15:19:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA18419; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 15:19:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 15:19:49 -0800 Message-ID: <19991213231853.8267.qmail@nwcst267.netaddress.usa.net> Date: 13 Dec 99 18:18:53 EST From: Horace To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Question on repulsion of electro-magnet] CC: energy21@listbot.com X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.4.0.33) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA18387 Resent-Message-ID: <"bh9QC3.0.dV4.KyNLu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13214 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Almost Yes... The total flux (f) created by all of the windings in a coil (Nf) is given by Nf=Li where: N = number of windings f = flux through one winding Nf = flux through all the windings L = inductance of all of the windings (depends on size, shape ,count) i = current through the coil The force exerted by such coil is proportional to the difference in two flux densites (B), direction, angle, the characterisitics of an object that the force acts upon, etc..., so I can't definitively write "Yes" to your question ...but I can write that the total flux produced by a coil is proportional to its self-inductance (L) and current through it (i) Horace P.S. For a cylindrical solenoid (long spiral) the inductance is given by: L=uA(N^2/x) where: u = permeability constant of the material in and around the solenoid A = cross section area of the solenoid x = length of the solenoid I haven't met anybody yet, who came up with the formula for an inductance of single circular loop. If you do, I'd like to know how he solved the very ugly eliptical integral that comes up. "Marcelo Puhl" wrote: > Will the magnitude of this force be related to the size ( inductance ) > of the coil ? "Horace" wrote: > > When the coil windings have no resistance they store and give away > > magnetic and electrical energy without losses. The force of > > attraction/repulsion when approaching such coil is the same as when > > moving away from such coil. The net mechanical work is zero, net > > back-drag is zero. > > > > Charged superconductiong coil behaves identically to a hard permanent > > magnet. Maybe a real permanent magnet consists of zillions of aligned > > electron current loops with zero R :-) > > ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 13 15:40:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA26301; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 15:40:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 15:40:22 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sig Figs Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:40:16 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <1tva5s4r9tk80fcbqcedcfj58sn1imts7p@4ax.com> References: <19991213.175350.-339061.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <19991213.175350.-339061.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA26246 Resent-Message-ID: <"9FBcj2.0.cQ6.cFOLu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13215 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 17:53:46 -0500, tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: [snip] >Although the reaction as I implied it does not occur, it does still form >NaSO4. I discovered that mixing aqueous solutions of CuSO4 and NaHCO3 >produces a blue precipitate and a gas (it bubbled profusely) and that it >was neutral or basic, because if the solution produced was acidic then >the bubbling would have continued no matter how much bicarbonate I put >in, but it stopped after I added a certain amount. To account for these I think you will find that it always remains slightly acidic (from the carbonic acid, i.e. not all the H2CO3 splits into CO2 and H2O. [snip] >combust. This is my proposed net reaction: CuSO4 (aq) + 2 NaHCO3 (aq) -> >Na2SO4 (aq) + CuCO3 (s) + H2O (l) + CO2 (g) Agreed, this is most likely the major reaction. > >If, as you proposed, NaHSO4 had formed, the reaction would be: CuSO4 (aq) >+ NaHCO3 (aq) -> CuCO3 (s) + NaHSO4 (aq) and NO GAS WOULD BE PRODUCED! >This would contradict experimental evidence. Not only that, but HCO3 is >the anion and it would not make sense for the H to be associated with the >Na+ ion. In NaHSO4, (sodium bisulphate), the H is attached to the SO4, not the sodium. While in solution, you will have a "bit of everything", though I'm not sure what you will get as it crystallises out (probably also some Na2CO3, NaHCO3, NaHSO4, and CuSO4, as well as the CuCO3 and Na2SO4, though the latter two will definitely be in the majority, as CuCO3 is relatively far less soluble than the other salts. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 13 22:56:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA06231; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:56:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:56:14 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19991213233840.29076168@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 23:38:40 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [Question on repulsion of electro-magnet] In-Reply-To: <19991213231853.8267.qmail@nwcst267.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"9N8MC3.0.GX1.EeULu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13216 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Horace and all, At 06:18 PM 12/13/99 EST, you wrote: > >Almost Yes... > >For a cylindrical solenoid (long spiral) the inductance is given by: >L=uA(N^2/x) > >where: >u = permeability constant of the material in and around the solenoid >A = cross section area of the solenoid >x = length of the solenoid > >I haven't met anybody yet, who came up with the formula for an >inductance of single circular loop. If you do, I'd like to know how he >solved the very ugly eliptical integral that comes up. > No I haven't seen it either. With approximations similar to those for the solenoid you get something like pi*ur/2. I read with a (very) long solenoid, there is no radial variations of the B field inside the solenoid. However, I don't believe that. Here is a site that has inductance calcuators: http://emcsun.ece.umr.edu/new-induct/ > > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 13 23:49:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA19398; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 23:49:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 23:49:48 -0800 Message-ID: <002c01bf4608$3e335f20$b3fd6dcb@ihug.co.nz> From: "Stuart Rae" To: References: <19991213.101725.-503995.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> Subject: Re: Sig Figs Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:50:51 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"Tj5Lx.0._k4.QQVLu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13217 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: DMBoss1021 wrote: > > Mr Johnson, > > ......Haven't you ever heard of significant figures? I just finished reading > the first part of your hydrogen from water paper. When you compared the > results of your calculations, you kept more digits than "SD" would allow........ > Has everyone forgotten the recent, and rather lengthy debate (which included detailed experimental information), by Mr Todd Knudtson, on his lifetimes research into the nature of Hydroxy, or Browns Gas ? Didn't Todd once comment and very carefully explain how he arrived at the conclusion (among other things) that: ".....Electricity + water = Browns' Gas. <> Browns' Gas + ignition = Electricity + Water. " and perhaps more pertinently: ".....As for the discharge of the Electrical Potential contained in the gas after it is produced. Those of you who are doing the math in that experiment of lifting water to elevation. Add this to the equation, you can easily recover 70% of the original electrical demand to form this gas........" Is there any thought or comment on how this might influence the energy equation......, or how Todd's other research findings relate to this discussion.......? :-/ Regards, Stuart Rae From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 14 04:27:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA03823; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:27:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:27:45 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:23:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Sig Figs Message-ID: <19991214.072316.-431627.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-7,9-10,12,14-17,29-30 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5algf3.0.Zx.0VZLu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13218 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:40:16 +1100 Robin van Spaandonk writes: [snip] >I think you will find that it always remains slightly acidic (from the >carbonic acid, i.e. not all the H2CO3 splits into CO2 and H2O. [snip] >In NaHSO4, (sodium bisulphate), the H is attached to the SO4, not the >sodium. While in solution, you will have a "bit of everything", though I'm >not sure what you will get as it crystallises out (probably also some >Na2CO3, NaHCO3, NaHSO4, and CuSO4, as well as the CuCO3 and Na2SO4, though >the latter two will definitely be in the majority, as CuCO3 is relatively >far less soluble than the other salts. [end of snips] Yes, I know that almost no reaction goes to completion totally, however, that has not stopped the chemicals industry from using reactions. The unwanted byproducts can be minimized: chill the solution before filering so as to further reduce the solubility of CuCO3 in the water, and heat it after filtering (also stir vigorously) to reduce the solubility of CO2 (in the form of H2CO3) in the solution. Naturally, one will find many products, but Na2SO4 will be the vast majority of it. Also, regarding the attachment of H+ to SO4(2-), that is exactly what I stated, though in a round-about way. I reasoned that it could not attach to Na+, so if NaHSO4 was to form then the H+ would have to attach to SO4(2-). I guess that the HCO3- ions would have to act as proton donors for NaHSO4 to form. -Tom Grimes ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 15 15:56:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA19566; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:55:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:55:57 -0800 Message-ID: <19991215235553.23585.qmail@nw171.netaddress.usa.net> Date: 15 Dec 99 18:55:53 EST From: Horace To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Mechanics problem X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.4.0.33) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA19545 Resent-Message-ID: <"HKJ_D2.0.dn4.Cg2Mu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13220 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A weight having mass (m) is hanging vertically from a string. An ideal massless pulley changes the direction of the string from vertical to horizontal. One layer of the string is wound on a massless spool of radius (R). The falling weight pulls the string that unwinds from the spool turning it with angular acceleration (b). A point mass (n) is attached to the common shaft with the spool by perpendicular massless rod of length (x). The rod and the mass (n) spinning about the shaft have a moment of inertia equal to (I=nx^2) ---- (view this drawing with a monospaced font) ---- rod ** |--------|**| spinning point mass | ** |shaft ___|___ |===| string |===|____________ __ _|___|_ / \ spool | | \ __ /| pulley | | | |string | | | _|_ / \ /_____\ weight The following equations describe the system above: [units] a = Linear acceleration of the spool's circumference and the acceleration of the weight and string [m/s^2] b = Angular acceleration of the common shaft, spool, spinning rod & mass [rad/s^2] c = Radial linear acceleration or centripetal acceleration (n*c = so called: centrifugal force) [m/s^2] T = Torque on the common shaft [N*m] F = Tension force of the string [N] v = Linear velocity of the spool's circumference and the velocity of the weight and string [m/s] w = Angular velocity of the common shaft, spool, spinning rod & mass [rad/s] R = Radius of the spool [m] m = Mass of the weight hanging verticaly on the string [kg] n = Spinning mass attached to the end of the rod [kg] x = Length of the rod [m] I = Moment of inertia of the spinning rod & mass [kg*m^2] g = Gravitational acceleration [m/s^2] t = time [s] ma = mg - F {Newton's 2nd law} a = bR = g/( 1+(I/((R^2)m)) ) b = a/R = g/( R+(I/Rm) ) c = (w^2)R =(v^2)/R T = Ib = g/( (R/I)+(1/Rm) ) F = Ib/R = g/( ((R^2)/I)+(1/m) ) v = at = gt/( 1+(I/((R^2)m)) ) w = bt = gt/( R+(I/Rm) ) I = n(x^2) In the following system, the rod from the previous system is substituted by a massless ideal spring having a stretching coeficient (k) Mass (n) is restricted to movement only along the extension line of the spring. As the angular velocity (w) increases, the spring is subjected to virtual centrifugal force (n*c). The spring balances this force in such a way that (nc = kx), stretching itself by length (x) equal to (x=nc/k). Remark: at certain (w) the spring (having constant k) will no longer be able to hold the accelerating mass (n) and the spring will break (stretch infinitively). At the same time, the spinning mass (n) moving radialy by the distance (x), increases the moment of inertia (I) in such a way that (I=n(x^2)). The increasing moment of inerta (I) causes the decrease in angular acceleration (b) and future instantenious velocities (w). spring ** |-/\/\/\-|**| spinning point mass | ** |shaft ___|___ |===| string |===|____________ __ _|___|_ / \ spool | | \ __ /| pulley | | | |string | | | _|_ / \ /_____\ weight where: x = Spring's strech distance [m] k = Spring stretch coefficient (aka. spring constant) [N/m] kx = nc x = nc/k PROBLEM 1: Expess algebraically the function w(t)=??? for the system described above... PROBLEM 2: Expess algebraically the function w(t)=??? for the system described above accounting for Coriolis acceleration (2w(dx/dt)) Is anyone good enough to help me with these problems ? Horace ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 15 16:13:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA25271; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:13:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:13:21 -0800 Message-ID: <38582EF3.E0381F78@microtec.net> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:14:43 -0500 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Mechanics problem References: <19991215235553.23585.qmail@nw171.netaddress.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zc0FT1.0.mA6.Ww2Mu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13221 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: test From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 17 14:22:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA22449; Fri, 17 Dec 1999 14:22:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 14:22:16 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <0.31954930.258c034c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 16:21:16 EST Subject: Help find magnet used in fatal bomb To: energy21@listbot.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_0.31954930.258c034c_boundary" X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"Vv6Hs.0.0U5.JUhMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13222 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --part1_0.31954930.258c034c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I am helping our local police department in an effort to find what company made the magnet in the attached drawing. Also what type of device it came out of. It was used in a fatal bombing that killed one local man. If it looks familar to you please let me know. All they can tell me about it is that it is very strong. I am trying to get more information now as to exact size ect. There is a reward being offered but don't know details yet. They are using local television also in the search. Thanks, Butch LaFonte --part1_0.31954930.258c034c_boundary Content-Type: image/gif; name="JASPER.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="JASPER.gif" R0lGODlhVAH6APcAAAAAAP////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// /////////////////////////////////ywAAAAAVAH6AAAI/gD/CRxIsKDBgwgTKlzIsKHD hxAjSpxIsaLFixgzatzIsaPHjyBDihxJsqTJkyhTqlzJsqXLlzBjypxJs6bNmzhz6tzJs6fP n0CDCh1KtKjRo0iTKl3KtKnTp1CjSp1KtarVq1izat3KtavXr2DDih1LFYDZs2jTql3Ltm1b sg3dygUAV+bcu3jz1s3L925dk30DCx4ruLDcvyINKz7sdbFjxog3Pp58livly28jY8T8OCvn z5k1TwStuCrp05BFx0UdWCrr16lVI4TNFyrt26FlG8Tttynv32t17waeOynx45WFD0QeXCnz 53SVQ0drfDp04dbNHs2eXTb3otzD/keP/H2oePGaywM9z348XPU928t3Lxb+zvnz33ePjz8/ 4f339Yfff9YFKKCAYdlX04EM0reVgjM12OBXEMYkoYSNAUjThRd2VaFLHHJomYYWhiiiVh+q ZOKKDk6VIkossojVi4DFKKNVNJJko404kqjijjyW5SOMQO4oZIEsFVmki0OWpKSSrjWp45NA RolkSlRCaZuUIWX55JZX1uillr5x6dGYWTqVo0ZoellmmIm16eZSa14kJ5p0msnmnXNWB+dH fPbp53QjBZomU3WOZiiZiOpZ0aKMNvqnZJAaCSahIFVq6VOJKqppiFZiGuenGIZ63ZSkMsjk pGfGaNGE/quKWiiolA4Y66lOqjrreaY5uqetRHZKlLCvygeir9shm1F7dskaFbHFhrchrqY+ hyW0qB7XK6tdchuhtkc6my1zPoF7q7XBkvsTcduKuytyQgHXLrW5mmsebvOiexK8yd4WLr3j 4jvoa//qKyZvksJ2rrr7/qYmbQvze7C/nEL8rLKbIXyxwpcC3K3A1ZK2sbuZahyyyBV7y5HD +aL2sMq/UtyjxXnCvCzIV5kcl07YPqTzjDgrpF1OPTMk74O8Eo0xREePiB5ORc/GrodJ3xT1 cE1TLS3US/9TtdZXl2xzQV9nuLVNwpYNdtf1kiz02QnCPe3YBD1dn9zf0r1c/tgJu/1S2nzX rHe6Hi+EN1iHlzh44ogHXqvfBzFOoeMxF56Q5GYPPrHBq7FdMOfNLu55yxLPDTnWp2du+bGi aw606wEz7BDlfYOueOp1j/556XnjvjfsM/tOuO1vA0+6vb2vjrrycRsvtvC0vyn85rIbrfvx U5vOfO7OY5916NBfvzvyt2//+/RId9+q3tHXXn35xEutfsTkw5Ro+4KbP/z7xaOPovgduR8A T1a/v2EMf0hBIEU6pUCjNFAiDBxgyvwXO95Zb34dix/rpvfAYUnwcfoTSAfvhcGVHfCD0gth w1pXQvfxz34nRKFzRuizGLYwfyqkngUNh7n0yTBj/prr4f9+CET0CdEzNKxhEJPIkyP+aIlM VFoUL2hEJ3ovewtamtqcNkUeQrGL2rth5TR4ObutTYxjfKEXwQg/CrYth17bYs7k2MYddo6N GyTizWDHHi7isYx8pCP9yGjAQAoyg3osIhxF2Mc5HhKGwDPWFdUIvkXGkVmDdKMOCzg7SSLy j/2z5CUb+clE7lGTwErhIyGpyVGSEodmlGIr++NCK7akaAgaGCYNNMtcOtCXPLvegX5JS/50 D1br0VUTxYdMYwKTl6I83zNlOU1qErKTyrRmKpc5vxOhrUPrGiCtKplNZ0aTe+BkZanCWcIV 5XGd7Gwl2W60P3iW64Ob/voYPZN5w0jZaUkklOfyqvQoKnlQjKlqE3hkmFA8HVSgkWuoQReK RolO9KHnBKRFg0RRiEZ0oxzF6DULClJ39suj8itpOomJ0pSqdJi6pCQIX+qfmNpxfTT1pE05 GcCc1nSnWHyXT23JzZaucahofKdMcYrUkQYliU3NqNVM+dGofq+WQV2hVYOmyqXqc6sEI2BW tQpW1mSSZUkqq1nP+rMnqvUzk+SqW99KmeBJ9Z90nYwjjbrAvDrmdXztq18Lg8SkCnawePHh XWeKWLb40an1bGxyFAvZyDZWdZW1rF8nZ1hFXpazgWVsXpsXWhNu9m6dFa1VyQJKKoJVP6k1 3G2TYknaxW6yrS7lKWa9OtWxHhW3BCqtUGUWEd8G17ZzXWu0OCaa1pLUZac8DXaoetvOqFav 0qEuWS8jW8woR5qZLWpde+rd7zIytivhLqDGa97zCreQi3leadqLTuT2djBf7Qt9q2rfYNYm v3PZbyjDC1TqDNexAv4tb0fWnFEhOMGuJfAEJwtgCBdXu/HMloU99d4Ne3ie6P2wiEdM4hKb +MQoTrGKV8ziFrv4xTCOsYxnTOMa2/jGOM6xjnfM4x77+MdADrKQh0zkIhv5yEhOspKXzOQm O3kkAQEAOw== --part1_0.31954930.258c034c_boundary-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 17 15:51:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA08135; Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:51:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:51:07 -0800 From: MATTIARO@aol.com Message-ID: <0.688b63f3.258c265e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:50:54 EST Subject: Re: Help find magnet used in fatal bomb To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"rM0MU.0.y-1.fniMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13223 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 12/17/1999 2:24:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, HLafonte@aol.com writes: Look at the sheetmetal tool that turns the magnetic field on & off. It is also used by machinists to keep a tool in place. It has a mechanism that this magnet MAY go into. Good luck Matti From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 17 16:57:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA29448; Fri, 17 Dec 1999 16:57:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 16:57:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 16:57:29 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Still Dead??? In-Reply-To: <19991214.072316.-431627.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"AKcC63.0.zB7.yljMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13224 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Eskimo staff is supposed to have fixed freenrg-L. Is it working yet? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 17 17:54:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA16634; Fri, 17 Dec 1999 17:54:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 17:54:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 17:54:47 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Still Dead??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-rVkz.0.o34.gbkMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13226 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, William Beaty wrote: > > Eskimo staff is supposed to have fixed freenrg-L. Is it working yet? First failure: I was bad and didn't pay the bill on time. Then when they got the check and added more megabytes to the account, it killed freenrg-L a second time. Now it should be good for another year. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 17 19:37:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12473; Fri, 17 Dec 1999 19:36:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 19:36:54 -0800 Message-ID: <385B0400.FE3EAAB1@csrlink.net> Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 22:48:16 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: energy21 , freenrg-l , jlnlabs , interact@keelynet.com Subject: The Waters Getting Deeper! Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------CBA7A089498A31BF42708343" Resent-Message-ID: <"RyDup.0.n23.M5mMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13227 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------CBA7A089498A31BF42708343 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Have a nifty experiment (safe even) that we can all do at home. If it works we go to a new level with this. I have a sneaking suspicion it will work too. MJ --------------CBA7A089498A31BF42708343 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Michael S. Johnston Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Michael S. Johnston n: ;Michael S. Johnston org: My site http://1dove.com/msj/ email;internet: enki@csrlink.net title: Jim's Free Energy Site http://geocities.com/frenrg/ x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------CBA7A089498A31BF42708343-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 17 19:51:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA16564; Fri, 17 Dec 1999 19:51:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 19:51:24 -0800 Message-ID: <385B04C9.30707FC5@prairienet.org> Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 21:51:37 -0600 From: Zack Widup X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: HLafonte@aol.com Subject: Re: Help find magnet used in fatal bomb References: <0.31954930.258c034c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TRHMO2.0.j24.xImMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13228 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > Hi all, > I am helping our local police department in an effort to find what company > made the magnet in the attached drawing. Also what type of device it came out > of. It was used in a fatal bombing that killed one local man. If it looks > familar to you please let me know. All they can tell me about it is that it > is very strong. I am trying to get more information now as to exact size ect. > There is a reward being offered but don't know details yet. They are using > local television also in the search. > Thanks, Butch LaFonte > > Hi Butch, You're probably going to have a hard time with that one. I used to see many of those things on large stereo speakers. The magnet would be backed with a steel plate, and three rivets or screws would go through the notches to hold the magnet to the speaker frame. A steel cylinder would project through the hole in the center, and the speaker coil would ride over it. I used to have one stuck to the wall near my bench when I did electronic repair, to magnetize my screwdrivers in order to pick up small screws. They ARE very strong magnets. There are probably many sources of them; the one in question could have been setting in someone's garage for 20 years. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 17 21:53:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA13688; Fri, 17 Dec 1999 21:53:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 21:53:35 -0800 Message-ID: <000a01bf491c$df3ea5c0$09c22bd1@skot-s-cow> From: "Skot" To: Subject: Re: Still Dead??? Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 21:58:12 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"8d2vY1.0.nL3.V5oMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13230 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: How much does it cost maybe we should take up a collection ;) scottb -----Original Message----- From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Friday, December 17, 1999 5:51 PM Subject: Re: Still Dead??? >On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, William Beaty wrote: > >> >> Eskimo staff is supposed to have fixed freenrg-L. Is it working yet? > >First failure: I was bad and didn't pay the bill on time. Then when they >got the check and added more megabytes to the account, it killed freenrg-L >a second time. Now it should be good for another year. > > > >((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) >William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website >billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com >EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science >Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 17 21:56:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA15225; Fri, 17 Dec 1999 21:56:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 21:56:44 -0800 Message-ID: <001a01bf491d$50f9f160$09c22bd1@skot-s-cow> From: "Skot" To: Subject: Re: Instruction for the making of the perpetuum mobile is enclosed. (physics/9912022) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 22:01:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"pen8A1.0.oj3.S8oMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13231 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here are 300 dpi images ( unlike the low res screen shots that IBM provide ) of all nine pages of patent #4237391 http://www.fastbid.cc/other/patents.html By the way, I think that it will work based on the fact that the super conducting shield is not attracted to the coil ( when current is induced in the coil ) the way a ferrous shield would be attracted. scottb -----Original Message----- From: Fred Epps To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 2:01 PM Subject: RE: Instruction for the making of the perpetuum mobile is enclosed. (physics/9912022) >Hi Hamdi, > >Here is one of the patents I was thinking of... it claims 150% OU, as I >recall. > >http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=US04237391__ > >US4237391: Apparatus for producing electrical energy > >An electrical generator comprises a stationary permanent magnet for >establishing a magnetic field, one or more sensing coils responsive to the >magnetic field, and a diamagnetic blocking element movable between the >magnet and the sensing coils for periodically interrupting the magnetic >field to produce electrical energy in the coils. A preferred embodiment >includes a pair of semi-circular coils arranged side-by-side in the >magnetic field and a rotatable blocking disc interposed between the magnet >and the coils. The disc includes a semi-circular portion of superconductive >material rendered impermeable to the magnetic field at temeperatures near >absolute zero and a semi-circular portion of magnetically inert material to >alternately block and pass the magnetic field to the coils upon rotation of >the disc. > > > > > >According to this result, the thermal >> fluctuations can induce a voltage with direct component in a >> inhomogeneous >> superconducting ring at an unaltered temperature corresponded to the >> resistive transition of the ring segment with the lowest >> critical temperature. >> > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 17 22:05:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA17330; Fri, 17 Dec 1999 22:02:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 22:02:08 -0800 Message-ID: <005d01bf491e$124ac600$09c22bd1@skot-s-cow> From: "Skot" To: Subject: Re: The Waters Getting Deeper! Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 22:06:48 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"_XHRo1.0.hE4.WDoMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13232 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I like nifty experiments. Shoot scottb -----Original Message----- From: Michael S. Johnston To: energy21 ; freenrg-l ; jlnlabs ; interact@keelynet.com Date: Friday, December 17, 1999 7:34 PM Subject: The Waters Getting Deeper! >Hi All, > Have a nifty experiment (safe even) that we can all do at home. If it >works we go to a new level with this. I have a sneaking suspicion it >will work too. > MJ > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 17 22:14:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA21905; Fri, 17 Dec 1999 22:13:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 22:13:14 -0800 Message-ID: <385B28A0.DED74230@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 01:24:33 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Waters Getting Deeper! References: <005d01bf491e$124ac600$09c22bd1@skot-s-cow> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------65F59B3D6A4612EBBF397461" Resent-Message-ID: <"OyNXF.0.BM5.vNoMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13233 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------65F59B3D6A4612EBBF397461 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I's workin on it even as we speak. MJ Skot wrote: > I like nifty experiments. Shoot > scottb > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael S. Johnston > To: energy21 ; freenrg-l ; > jlnlabs ; interact@keelynet.com > Date: Friday, December 17, 1999 7:34 PM > Subject: The Waters Getting Deeper! > > >Hi All, > > Have a nifty experiment (safe even) that we can all do at home. If it > >works we go to a new level with this. I have a sneaking suspicion it > >will work too. > > MJ > > --------------65F59B3D6A4612EBBF397461 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Michael S. Johnston Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Michael S. Johnston n: ;Michael S. Johnston org: My site http://1dove.com/msj/ email;internet: enki@csrlink.net title: Jim's Free Energy Site http://geocities.com/frenrg/ x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------65F59B3D6A4612EBBF397461-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 17 22:39:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA28094; Fri, 17 Dec 1999 22:38:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 22:38:34 -0800 Message-ID: <385B2E97.F80E829A@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 01:49:59 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: energy21 , freenrg-l , jlnlabs Subject: Experiment #1 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------9903FCD55966B8363C4AC0E2" Resent-Message-ID: <"qJAuj2.0.us6.gloMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13235 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9903FCD55966B8363C4AC0E2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Now for something new and different. What we will try to establish with this experiment is that water is indeed a conductor of electricity. If you read my previous "works" you will know that I compared water to a metal conductor. I suppose that I really ought to mention the obvious here. Water is NOT physically like copper wire it is a liquid. Liquid conductors behave differently than metal ones. Their method of transmitting an electrical charge is totally different. Metal conductors are supposed to transmit a charge, when exposed to a source of said charge, by getting electrons excited which in turn get the neighboring electrons excited which transmits the charge along your line. Such solid metals consist of ordered arrays of positive ions within a virtual sea of electrons. These electrons being more or less free to roam around a bit. When a electric field acts on the metal the electrons move around and so carry a negative electric charge through the metal. You might think therefore that you could force all the electrons out of a metal but it doesn't work that way. In reality it would require enormous amounts of energy to separate positive and negative charges from each other at this level. The only way possible to keep a sustained charge in a wire is therefore to keep adding electrons at one end and draining them off at the other. The metal conductor is therefore electrically neutral everywhere along it's length. Also, in most cases, when the temperature of a metal conductor is raised, it's conductivity diminishes. Water on the other hand, when exposed to an electrical charge or an electromagnetic field, the mechanism is made more complicated because the positive as well as the negative carriers are free to move. Solutions of electrolytes contain both positive and negative ions. There are NO free electrons in aqueous solutions. The ions are not fixed in position but are free to roam about the entire solution. When electric charge is applied to such a solution the positive ions experience a force in one direction and the negative ions experience a force in the opposite direction. This two-way movement of + and - ions in opposite directions constitutes the electrolytic current. If too many ions accumulated at the electrodes the current would stop flowing. In order for it to keep flowing chemical reactions must occur at the electrodes to maintain electrical neutrality. As with metal conductors, electric neutrality must be maintained in all regions of the solution at all times. Otherwise the current stops. Unlike metal conductors electrolytic conduction is usually increased when the temperature is raised. There I hope I gave enough of an introductory speech to satisfy the objectors who seem to think that everyone is too stupid to know such basic stuff. I figure most people have enough brains to look stuff up if they don't know but what do I know? What I want to try to establish with this experiment is the fact that water will behave in certain ways like a metal conductor. I already showed this in my analogy regarding separator cells as splices in a wire line. I don't believe that there has been anything posted yet to refute this. Of course liquid conductors are inherently different in HOW they do the job but not in the fact that they DO the job! Scientifically water (by itself) is a weak electrolyte and disassociates according to the following equation: H2O <----> H+ and OH- Note: Wonder how you could crack that OH- ion into O2 and H2...... ;-) Remember, for this particular experiment, we aren't trying to make the water disassociate. Still, to get the most potential bang for our buck we should add an electrolyte to speed things along. I am going to suggest NaCl because it is cheap and easy to obtain. Since you probably won't be using platinum wire I feel that you won't have to worry about DEADLY CHLORINE GAS. In my opinion salt is safer than battery acid. Also note that I don't really care weather or not anyone else has done this experiment before. I'm sure that someone has. I just haven't seen it referred to anywhere in the commonly available literature. Also it is something that will be easy for the "average" person to do. You know who I mean, the person who doesn't have a lot of complicated (translate: expensive) equipment to work with. SUPPLIES NEEDED: 1) Water. Distilled would be nice but is not really required here. 2) Aquarium Air Tubing. Rubber, plastic, whatever. 3) Bathtub Caulk. Or some other way to seal the ends of the tubing. 4) NaCl. Salt. 5) Copper Wire. Thin would be nice. Uninsulated is desirable. 6) A powerful bar magnet. 7) A compass. Common hand held, boy scout type will do. Galvanometer if you've got one. 8) Model Glue. First let's take the copper wire and cut it into a 12" long (or thereabouts) and if it's insulated, strip the insulation off. Then wind it around the compass leaving several inches of straight wire on each side. Now put one of the ends of the wire into one end of the aquarium tubing and caulk it in place. Note: The bare wire must extend into the tubing for an inch or so and not be covered by the caulking. Now let the caulking set up. After the caulk is dry we're going to make a series of coils in the center of the tubing. We will have to make it keep it's shape so if we wind it around a pipe or cardboard tube and use the model glue to glue it to itself we should be able to remove the pipe or cardboard tube when the glue dries and have a nice little set of coils. Note: Coils in aquarium tubing should be only slightly larger than the diameter of your bar magnet. The reason for this should be obvious. Make as many loops in your tubing as is possible. Leave several inches of straight tubing at each end. Once the glue is set up were ready for our water and electrolyte. Mix your water and NaCl together in a cup or something and then fill up the tubing coil that you made with it. Make sure there are no air bubbles. I suggested distilled water because there should be less air dissolved in it to bubble later. Once it is full we insert the other end of our wire into the open end of the tubing and caulk it in place, making sure not to spill any more water out than is necessary to make room for the wire. Now let the caulk dry. After the caulk dries we are ready. It might help to warm the water in the tubing up here. Maybe you could soak it in a basin of warm tap water until the temperature equalizes. Once that is accomplished place the contraption on a flat, preferably non conducting surface, in such a way as you can easily see the needle of your compass. Now slide one end of your bar magnet into the water filled coils of tubing and then pull it back out quickly while watching the compass needle carefully. If you set it up correctly and your magnet's field is strong enough to penetrate the tubing and act on our conductor (the water) then the compass needle should jump around a bit. SO we have now done the classic little experiment which shows that a conductor can be made to generate electricity by making it into coils and then causing these coils to cut the magnetic lines of force which surround a permanent magnet. Isn't that interesting? Rather than use copper in the generator and "splice" in the separator as I suggested earlier we have just turned the thing around and made the separator INTO the generator. Well enough for now. Let's all try this and see what happens. I think that there is a good chance I'm right. If I am I'll let you know tomorrow and post the next level. MJ --------------9903FCD55966B8363C4AC0E2 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Michael S. Johnston Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Michael S. Johnston n: ;Michael S. Johnston org: My site http://1dove.com/msj/ email;internet: enki@csrlink.net title: Jim's Free Energy Site http://geocities.com/frenrg/ x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------9903FCD55966B8363C4AC0E2-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 17 23:11:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA01556; Fri, 17 Dec 1999 23:09:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 23:09:50 -0800 Message-ID: <008701bf4927$86f4b700$09c22bd1@skot-s-cow> From: "Skot" To: Subject: Re: Experiment #1 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 23:14:29 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"tqdaW2.0.EO.-CpMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13236 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Michael S. Johnston >Hi All, >SUPPLIES NEEDED: >1) Water. Distilled would be nice but is not really required here. >2) Aquarium Air Tubing. Rubber, plastic, whatever. >3) Bathtub Caulk. Or some other way to seal the ends of the tubing. >4) NaCl. Salt. >5) Copper Wire. Thin would be nice. Uninsulated is desirable. >6) A powerful bar magnet. >7) A compass. Common hand held, boy scout type will do. Galvanometer if >you've got one. >8) Model Glue. > You would need the wire insulated except at the ends so your coil doesn't short. You also need to keep the compass a good distance from the magnet so that direct interaction can't be blamed for needle movement. For those of us with 'zero' background in chemistry, what is the long name for NaCl? scottb From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 17 23:32:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA04927; Fri, 17 Dec 1999 23:30:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 23:30:18 -0800 Message-ID: <385B3AB9.54FD776C@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 02:41:46 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Experiment #1 References: <008701bf4927$86f4b700$09c22bd1@skot-s-cow> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------60D22535717460844505E724" Resent-Message-ID: <"5he3P1.0.vC1.AWpMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13237 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------60D22535717460844505E724 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Skot, Well if you laid the device on a non-conducting surface and the wires didn't overlap then it shouldn't short out. No matter though. The ideal wire would probably be that thin stuff with the clear coating like you use to wind little motors and generators. You are right though, insulated is better just not real HEAVILY insulated . NaCl is Sodium Chloride, Table Salt. Forgot to mention keeping the compass fair distance from magnet. MJ Skot wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael S. Johnston > > >Hi All, > > > >SUPPLIES NEEDED: > >1) Water. Distilled would be nice but is not really required here. > >2) Aquarium Air Tubing. Rubber, plastic, whatever. > >3) Bathtub Caulk. Or some other way to seal the ends of the tubing. > >4) NaCl. Salt. > >5) Copper Wire. Thin would be nice. Uninsulated is desirable. > >6) A powerful bar magnet. > >7) A compass. Common hand held, boy scout type will do. Galvanometer if > >you've got one. > >8) Model Glue. > > > > You would need the wire insulated except at the ends so your coil doesn't > short. You also need to keep the compass a good distance from the magnet so > that direct interaction can't be blamed for needle movement. > > For those of us with 'zero' background in chemistry, what is the long name > for NaCl? > > scottb --------------60D22535717460844505E724 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Michael S. Johnston Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Michael S. Johnston n: ;Michael S. Johnston org: My site http://1dove.com/msj/ email;internet: enki@csrlink.net title: Jim's Free Energy Site http://geocities.com/frenrg/ x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------60D22535717460844505E724-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 18 00:12:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA14999; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 00:10:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 00:10:04 -0800 Message-ID: <19991218081000.21806.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.112] From: "Timothy Flytcher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Experiment #1 Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 00:10:00 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"x4gOT1.0.Fg3.S5qMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13238 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ok...Michael, what are you babbling about water being a good conductor??? pure water dose not conduct... It's a great insulator... now solutions do conduct... but what can you do with a "liquid" wire that you cant do with a metal one??? have you completed any of your experiments or are you trying to get other to fill in the chasms in your logic??? Timothy... >Hi All, > Now for something new and different. What we will try to establish >with this experiment is that water is indeed a conductor of electricity. >If you read my previous "works" you will know that I compared water to a >metal conductor. I suppose that I really ought to mention the obvious >here. Water is NOT physically like copper wire it is a liquid. >Liquid conductors behave differently than metal ones. Their method of >transmitting an electrical charge is totally different. > Metal conductors are supposed to transmit a charge, when exposed to a >source of said charge, by getting electrons excited which in turn get >the neighboring electrons excited which transmits the charge along your >line. Such solid metals consist of ordered arrays of positive ions >within a virtual sea of electrons. These electrons being more or less >free to roam around a bit. When a electric field acts on the metal the >electrons move around and so carry a negative electric charge through >the metal. You might think therefore that you could force all the >electrons out of a metal but it doesn't work that way. In reality it >would require enormous amounts of energy to separate positive and >negative charges from each other at this level. The only way possible to >keep a sustained charge in a wire is therefore to keep adding electrons >at one end and draining them off at the other. The metal conductor is >therefore electrically neutral everywhere along it's length. Also, in >most cases, when the temperature of a metal conductor is raised, it's >conductivity diminishes. > Water on the other hand, when exposed to an electrical charge or an >electromagnetic field, the mechanism is made more complicated because >the positive as well as the negative carriers are free to move. >Solutions of electrolytes contain both positive and negative ions. There >are NO free electrons in aqueous solutions. The ions are not fixed in >position but are free to roam about the entire solution. When electric >charge is applied to such a solution the positive ions experience a >force in one direction and the negative ions experience a force in the >opposite direction. This two-way movement of + and - ions in opposite >directions constitutes the electrolytic current. If too many ions >accumulated at the electrodes the current would stop flowing. In order >for it to keep flowing chemical reactions must occur at the electrodes >to maintain electrical neutrality. As with metal conductors, electric >neutrality must be maintained in all regions of the solution at all >times. Otherwise the current stops. Unlike metal conductors electrolytic >conduction is usually increased when the temperature is raised. > There I hope I gave enough of an introductory speech to satisfy the >objectors who seem to think that everyone is too stupid to know such >basic stuff. I figure most people have enough brains to look stuff up if >they don't know but what do I know? > What I want to try to establish with this experiment is the fact that >water will behave in certain ways like a metal conductor. I already >showed this in my analogy regarding separator cells as splices in a wire >line. I don't believe that there has been anything posted yet to refute >this. Of course liquid conductors are inherently different in HOW they >do the job but not in the fact that they DO the job! > Scientifically water (by itself) is a weak electrolyte and >disassociates according to the following equation: H2O <----> H+ and >OH- Note: Wonder how you could crack that OH- ion into O2 and >H2...... ;-) > Remember, for this particular experiment, we aren't trying to make >the water disassociate. Still, to get the most potential bang for our >buck we should add an electrolyte to speed things along. I am going to >suggest NaCl because it is cheap and easy to obtain. Since you probably >won't be using platinum wire I feel that you won't have to worry about >DEADLY CHLORINE GAS. In my opinion salt is safer than battery acid. > Also note that I don't really care weather or not anyone else has >done this experiment before. I'm sure that someone has. I just haven't >seen it referred to anywhere in the commonly available literature. Also >it is something that will be easy for the "average" person to do. You >know who I mean, the person who doesn't have a lot of complicated >(translate: expensive) equipment to work with. >SUPPLIES NEEDED: >1) Water. Distilled would be nice but is not really required here. >2) Aquarium Air Tubing. Rubber, plastic, whatever. >3) Bathtub Caulk. Or some other way to seal the ends of the tubing. >4) NaCl. Salt. >5) Copper Wire. Thin would be nice. Uninsulated is desirable. >6) A powerful bar magnet. >7) A compass. Common hand held, boy scout type will do. Galvanometer if >you've got one. >8) Model Glue. > > First let's take the copper wire and cut it into a 12" long (or >thereabouts) and if it's insulated, strip the insulation off. Then wind >it around the compass leaving several inches of straight wire on each >side. Now put one of the ends of the wire into one end of the aquarium >tubing and caulk it in place. Note: The bare wire must extend into the >tubing for an inch or so and not be covered by the caulking. Now let the >caulking set up. > After the caulk is dry we're going to make a series of coils in the >center of the tubing. We will have to make it keep it's shape so if we >wind it around a pipe or cardboard tube and use the model glue to glue >it to itself we should be able to remove the pipe or cardboard tube when >the glue dries and have a nice little set of coils. Note: Coils in >aquarium tubing should be only slightly larger than the diameter of your >bar magnet. The reason for this should be obvious. Make as many loops in >your tubing as is possible. Leave several inches of straight tubing at >each end. > Once the glue is set up were ready for our water and electrolyte. Mix >your water and NaCl together in a cup or something and then fill up the >tubing coil that you made with it. Make sure there are no air bubbles. I >suggested distilled water because there should be less air dissolved in >it to bubble later. Once it is full we insert the other end of our wire >into the open end of the tubing and caulk it in place, making sure not >to spill any more water out than is necessary to make room for the wire. >Now let the caulk dry. > After the caulk dries we are ready. It might help to warm the water >in the tubing up here. Maybe you could soak it in a basin of warm tap >water until the temperature equalizes. Once that is accomplished place >the contraption on a flat, preferably non conducting surface, in such a >way as you can easily see the needle of your compass. Now slide one end >of your bar magnet into the water filled coils of tubing and then pull >it back out quickly while watching the compass needle carefully. If you >set it up correctly and your magnet's field is strong enough to >penetrate the tubing and act on our conductor (the water) then the >compass needle should jump around a bit. > SO we have now done the classic little experiment which shows that a >conductor can be made to generate electricity by making it into coils >and then causing these coils to cut the magnetic lines of force which >surround a permanent magnet. Isn't that interesting? > Rather than use copper in the generator and "splice" in the separator >as I suggested earlier we have just turned the thing around and made the >separator INTO the generator. Well enough for now. Let's all try this >and see what happens. I think that there is a good chance I'm right. If >I am I'll let you know tomorrow and post the next level. > MJ ><< vcard.vcf >> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 18 02:04:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA30625; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 02:03:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 02:03:18 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <0.f7c614db.258cb5de@aol.com> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 05:03:10 EST Subject: Glow Discharge Plasma Skin tests results To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 30 Resent-Message-ID: <"F65ye2.0.RU7.blrMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13239 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear All, Today I have updated my web site about the ARDA Project. I have conducted some tests about the new Glow Discharge Plasma Skin which will be used in the future ARDA Wing designs. The purpose of this preliminary test is to check if a Glow Discharge Plasma Skin is able to generate a thrusting effect. This is a first step towards a design of the full scale GDP Wing profile used in an ARDA Flying wing. In a future design the wing profile will be covered by an uniform cold plasma (OAUGDP) generated by a glow discharge at high voltage and at high frequency. A kind of GDP skin has already been successfully tested at the NASA Langley Research Center by Roth and Wilkinson and a full report has been presented during the 36th Aerospace Sciences Meeting in Reno (January 1998). You will find all pictures, diagrams and video about the GDP Skin tests at : http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/ff3tests.htm Ps: If you want to connect to my main JLN Labs web site, you may use this alternate URL : http://go.to/jlnlabs the old http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm remains always valid. Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin Main Web site at : http://go.to/jlnlabs From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 18 02:53:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA03486; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 02:51:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 02:51:13 -0800 Message-ID: <385B69CB.2EE55CA3@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 06:02:36 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Experiment #1 References: <19991218081000.21806.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------C6B381C1A31F935B7075C4AC" Resent-Message-ID: <"DNMPE.0.Os.WSsMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13240 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------C6B381C1A31F935B7075C4AC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh My, Right away I'm babbling huh? Well, let's see, last time I checked water did conduct as a liquid but not as a solid. True, without an electrolyte it conducts so little electrical current that it is usually classified as an insulator, however it will conduct a tiny amount. As far as what you can do with a liquid wire that you can't do with a metal one tell me: what metal, as a result of carrying a charge, decomposes into two gasses which, when burned together, reunite to form superheated steam with no other by-products? None I can think of. Have I done any of my experiments? Sure. Have you ever done anything? Anything at all? I believe that I have fewer gaps in my logic than you as I am not stupid enough to jump into the middle of something and shoot my mouth off like I know what I am talking about when, by doing so, I can only hope to show how little I actually do know. Regards, MJ Timothy Flycatcher wrote: > Ok...Michael, > what are you babbling about water being a good conductor??? pure water dose > not conduct... It's a great insulator... now solutions do conduct... but > what can you do with a "liquid" wire that you cant do with a metal one??? > have you completed any of your experiments or are you trying to get other to > fill in the chasms in your logic??? > Timothy... > >Hi All, > > Now for something new and different. What we will try to establish > >with this experiment is that water is indeed a conductor of electricity. > >If you read my previous "works" you will know that I compared water to a > >metal conductor. I suppose that I really ought to mention the obvious > >here. Water is NOT physically like copper wire it is a liquid. > >Liquid conductors behave differently than metal ones. Their method of > >transmitting an electrical charge is totally different. > > Metal conductors are supposed to transmit a charge, when exposed to a > >source of said charge, by getting electrons excited which in turn get > >the neighboring electrons excited which transmits the charge along your > >line. Such solid metals consist of ordered arrays of positive ions > >within a virtual sea of electrons. These electrons being more or less > >free to roam around a bit. When a electric field acts on the metal the > >electrons move around and so carry a negative electric charge through > >the metal. You might think therefore that you could force all the > >electrons out of a metal but it doesn't work that way. In reality it > >would require enormous amounts of energy to separate positive and > >negative charges from each other at this level. The only way possible to > >keep a sustained charge in a wire is therefore to keep adding electrons > >at one end and draining them off at the other. The metal conductor is > >therefore electrically neutral everywhere along it's length. Also, in > >most cases, when the temperature of a metal conductor is raised, it's > >conductivity diminishes. > > Water on the other hand, when exposed to an electrical charge or an > >electromagnetic field, the mechanism is made more complicated because > >the positive as well as the negative carriers are free to move. > >Solutions of electrolytes contain both positive and negative ions. There > >are NO free electrons in aqueous solutions. The ions are not fixed in > >position but are free to roam about the entire solution. When electric > >charge is applied to such a solution the positive ions experience a > >force in one direction and the negative ions experience a force in the > >opposite direction. This two-way movement of + and - ions in opposite > >directions constitutes the electrolytic current. If too many ions > >accumulated at the electrodes the current would stop flowing. In order > >for it to keep flowing chemical reactions must occur at the electrodes > >to maintain electrical neutrality. As with metal conductors, electric > >neutrality must be maintained in all regions of the solution at all > >times. Otherwise the current stops. Unlike metal conductors electrolytic > >conduction is usually increased when the temperature is raised. > > There I hope I gave enough of an introductory speech to satisfy the > >objectors who seem to think that everyone is too stupid to know such > >basic stuff. I figure most people have enough brains to look stuff up if > >they don't know but what do I know? > > What I want to try to establish with this experiment is the fact that > >water will behave in certain ways like a metal conductor. I already > >showed this in my analogy regarding separator cells as splices in a wire > >line. I don't believe that there has been anything posted yet to refute > >this. Of course liquid conductors are inherently different in HOW they > >do the job but not in the fact that they DO the job! > > Scientifically water (by itself) is a weak electrolyte and > >disassociates according to the following equation: H2O <----> H+ and > >OH- Note: Wonder how you could crack that OH- ion into O2 and > >H2...... ;-) > > Remember, for this particular experiment, we aren't trying to make > >the water disassociate. Still, to get the most potential bang for our > >buck we should add an electrolyte to speed things along. I am going to > >suggest NaCl because it is cheap and easy to obtain. Since you probably > >won't be using platinum wire I feel that you won't have to worry about > >DEADLY CHLORINE GAS. In my opinion salt is safer than battery acid. > > Also note that I don't really care weather or not anyone else has > >done this experiment before. I'm sure that someone has. I just haven't > >seen it referred to anywhere in the commonly available literature. Also > >it is something that will be easy for the "average" person to do. You > >know who I mean, the person who doesn't have a lot of complicated > >(translate: expensive) equipment to work with. > >SUPPLIES NEEDED: > >1) Water. Distilled would be nice but is not really required here. > >2) Aquarium Air Tubing. Rubber, plastic, whatever. > >3) Bathtub Caulk. Or some other way to seal the ends of the tubing. > >4) NaCl. Salt. > >5) Copper Wire. Thin would be nice. Uninsulated is desirable. > >6) A powerful bar magnet. > >7) A compass. Common hand held, boy scout type will do. Galvanometer if > >you've got one. > >8) Model Glue. > > > > First let's take the copper wire and cut it into a 12" long (or > >thereabouts) and if it's insulated, strip the insulation off. Then wind > >it around the compass leaving several inches of straight wire on each > >side. Now put one of the ends of the wire into one end of the aquarium > >tubing and caulk it in place. Note: The bare wire must extend into the > >tubing for an inch or so and not be covered by the caulking. Now let the > >caulking set up. > > After the caulk is dry we're going to make a series of coils in the > >center of the tubing. We will have to make it keep it's shape so if we > >wind it around a pipe or cardboard tube and use the model glue to glue > >it to itself we should be able to remove the pipe or cardboard tube when > >the glue dries and have a nice little set of coils. Note: Coils in > >aquarium tubing should be only slightly larger than the diameter of your > >bar magnet. The reason for this should be obvious. Make as many loops in > >your tubing as is possible. Leave several inches of straight tubing at > >each end. > > Once the glue is set up were ready for our water and electrolyte. Mix > >your water and NaCl together in a cup or something and then fill up the > >tubing coil that you made with it. Make sure there are no air bubbles. I > >suggested distilled water because there should be less air dissolved in > >it to bubble later. Once it is full we insert the other end of our wire > >into the open end of the tubing and caulk it in place, making sure not > >to spill any more water out than is necessary to make room for the wire. > >Now let the caulk dry. > > After the caulk dries we are ready. It might help to warm the water > >in the tubing up here. Maybe you could soak it in a basin of warm tap > >water until the temperature equalizes. Once that is accomplished place > >the contraption on a flat, preferably non conducting surface, in such a > >way as you can easily see the needle of your compass. Now slide one end > >of your bar magnet into the water filled coils of tubing and then pull > >it back out quickly while watching the compass needle carefully. If you > >set it up correctly and your magnet's field is strong enough to > >penetrate the tubing and act on our conductor (the water) then the > >compass needle should jump around a bit. > > SO we have now done the classic little experiment which shows that a > >conductor can be made to generate electricity by making it into coils > >and then causing these coils to cut the magnetic lines of force which > >surround a permanent magnet. Isn't that interesting? > > Rather than use copper in the generator and "splice" in the separator > >as I suggested earlier we have just turned the thing around and made the > >separator INTO the generator. Well enough for now. Let's all try this > >and see what happens. I think that there is a good chance I'm right. If > >I am I'll let you know tomorrow and post the next level. > > MJ > ><< vcard.vcf >> > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------C6B381C1A31F935B7075C4AC Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Michael S. Johnston Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Michael S. Johnston n: ;Michael S. Johnston org: My site http://1dove.com/msj/ email;internet: enki@csrlink.net title: Jim's Free Energy Site http://geocities.com/frenrg/ x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------C6B381C1A31F935B7075C4AC-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 18 03:13:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA06333; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 03:12:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 03:12:10 -0800 Message-ID: <385B6C09.41D3FD0B@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 00:12:09 +1300 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Experiment #1 References: <19991218081000.21806.qmail@hotmail.com> <385B69CB.2EE55CA3@csrlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"61jVR2.0.tY1.9msMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13241 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Are you aware of any experiments testing the magnetic field from electrolytic conduction? There was the claim (by Nils Rognerud) that plasma conduction does not create a detectable magnetic field. (that is to say in a simple setup he didn't find one) What is known about the magnetic fields from non-magnetic conduction? More interesting in my mind than induction in non-metalic conduction is what little we seem to know for sure about the magnetic fields they create. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 18 04:49:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA18903; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 04:48:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 04:48:36 -0800 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Glow Discharge Plasma Skin tests results Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 07:58:10 -0500 Message-ID: <19991218125810718.AAA262@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"8zouy1.0.Dd4.aAuMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13242 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jean-Louis writes: >Dear All, > >Today I have updated my web site about the ARDA Project. Hi Jean-Louis, This is quite fascinating stuff. Do you have any internet pointers that explain better this paraelectric force? It seems quite similar but opposite perhaps in behavior to diamagnetism. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 18 06:33:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02165; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 06:32:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 06:32:45 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <0.e8db971b.258cf505@aol.com> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 09:32:37 EST Subject: Re: Glow Discharge Plasma Skin tests results To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id GAA02146 Resent-Message-ID: <"YnEnh3.0.lX.DivMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13243 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dans un courrier daté du 18/12/99 13:49:29 Paris, Madrid, knuke@LCIA.COM a écrit : > > Hi Jean-Louis, > > This is quite fascinating stuff. Do you have any internet pointers that > explain better this paraelectric force? It seems quite similar but opposite > perhaps in behavior to diamagnetism. Hi Michael, Yes of course, I suggest you to read this very interesting document : - Boundary Layer Flow Control with a one Atmosphere Uniform Glow Discharge Surface Plasma. AIAA 98-0328, 36th Aerospace Sciences Meeting & Exhibit, Reno, Nevada, pp. 29.- Roth, J. Reece; Sherman, Daniel M.; Wilkinson, Stephen P. (1998) at : http://techreports.larc.nasa.gov/ltrs/PDF/1998/aiaa/NASA-aiaa-98-0328.pdf Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Main Web site: http://go.to/jlnlabs eGroup:http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 18 07:50:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA21307; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 07:49:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 07:49:24 -0800 Message-ID: <385BACCA.2A95@cyberportal.net> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 10:48:26 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@listbot.com CC: nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8x4fr.0.nC5.4qwMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13244 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Pre-conference Press Release: U-235 and Radium are CATALYSTS that speed up chemical reactions. For example; one ton of T.N.T. can be made to give up its' energy in a shorter span of time. This gives the illusion that more energy has been released. The truth is that equal amounts of energy are released with or without the radioactive catalyst. More details will be released at the Year 2000 Exotic Research Conference. Nikola Tesla was correct when he stated that energy can not be obtained from radioactive matter. This will become clear at the conference. Reference The Chemical Effects of Alpha Particles and Electrons by Samuel C. Lind, PH.D. U.S. Bureau of Mines 1921 -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 18 10:06:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA19360; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 10:04:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 10:04:37 -0800 Message-ID: <19991218180434.32949.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.135] From: "Timothy Flytcher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Experiment #1 Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 10:04:34 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"kir0Z1.0.Qk4.qoyMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13245 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ok Michael S. Johnston Yes I have "done" a fare share... I have also washed off high tension wires in a power plant with water!!! Using a sixty psi one inch fire hose... Not even a tingle in the fingers!!! So yes it is a fair insulator... And yes you are babbling in my opinion... Get to the meat please... Timothy... >Oh My, > Right away I'm babbling huh? Well, let's see, last time I checked water >did >conduct as a liquid but not as a solid. True, without an electrolyte it >conducts >so little electrical current that it is usually classified as an insulator, >however it will conduct a tiny amount. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 18 11:01:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA03063; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:00:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:00:23 -0800 Message-ID: <385BD9C7.41BB@cyberportal.net> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 14:00:23 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com CC: exotic@casagrande.com, nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: NU ANNOUNCEMENT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zZTGV2.0.nl.7dzMu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13246 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ANNOUNCEMENT All the facts are now in... The Year 2000 Conference promises to bring closure to the "free energy" arena. Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! This will become crystal clear at this upcoming conference. Energy is all around us just waiting to do our bidding. The Radiant Energy Receiver could absolete nuclear energy marking it as a mere stepping stone. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 18 13:11:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA05955; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:08:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:08:30 -0800 Message-ID: <385BF7BF.6E8765D3@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 23:08:15 +0200 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,tr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Instruction for the making of the perpetuum mobile is enclosed. (physics/9912022) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Few822.0.xS1.DV_Mu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13247 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: (hope this not bounce again) Hi Fred, I downloaded and quickly read the patent. I had not yet figure out why switching a magnetic field by diamagnetic material blockage do not consume mechanical work equal to the power generated from induction while all other means of switching methods are pr oved conservative. Is some specific property of the SC material used for this unbalance (like the paper about PM)? Fred Epps wrote: > > Hi Hamdi, > > Here is one of the patents I was thinking of... it claims 150% OU, as I > recall. > > http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=US04237391__ > > US4237391: Apparatus for producing electrical energy > Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 18 15:20:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA10264; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 15:18:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 15:18:44 -0800 Message-ID: <385C169C.C68974C@microtec.net> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 18:19:56 -0500 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Instruction for the making of the perpetuum mobile is enclosed. (physics/9912022) References: <385BF7BF.6E8765D3@verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XY4rp1.0.EW2.JP1Nu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13248 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I read the patent too, I guess this is a form of flux gating, in that case it is a form of flux blocking. so the flux passes and doesn't passes and it creates voltage in the AIR coils. those are actually air core coils and he is using preferably supra-conductors to block the fields. but if you spin a supra-conductor in a magnetic field, won't you get ultra high eddy currents that create a back drag for nothing ? and the aire cores would pick up little energy. unless you find a way to spin the supra conductor in a uniform magnetic field with no weaker or stronger fields in any position possible of the plate. but the plate itself acts like a magnet, it acts like a short-circuited coil. so how can this be overunity ? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 18 22:36:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA21222; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 22:34:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 22:34:05 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991218223239.00810100@mail.oz.net> X-Sender: coilgun@mail.oz.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 22:32:39 -0800 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: Barry Hansen Subject: Is large farad capacitor suitable for impulse? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"9x7qz3.0.VB5.Tn7Nu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13249 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi gang! At a car stereo shop last week I saw a 1-farad 20v capacitor, like a tall can of Fosters beer. I'm doing electromagnetic impulse experiments by discharging a capacitor into a coil. What's inside one of these caps? Would it be suitable for a massive discharge in, say, 4-msec or less? Thanks for your insight, Barry coilgun@oz.net http://www.oz.net/~coilgun/home.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 18 22:55:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA29423; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 22:53:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 22:53:36 -0800 Message-ID: <00ae01bf49ee$735ecce0$09c22bd1@skot-s-cow> From: "Skot" To: Subject: Re: Instruction for the making of the perpetuum mobile is enclosed. (physics/9912022) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 22:58:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"TYSwH.0.fB7.l38Nu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13250 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I think it will work and this is why: The permanant magnet and the coil ( should not be air core in my opinion ) are both fixed stationary so the primary interaction between the magnetic field from the coil ( from the induced current ) and the permanant magnet is negated. This is normal, nothing new, just sets the stage. If a chunk of iron was used to block the field intermitantly then it would make electricity ( with out being overunity ) by shorting the field as in the field would find the path though the iron easier that though air and the coil core. Normal stuff. When a super conductor is used ( if I understand it's properties correctly ) it literally blocks the field, causing it to go around through the air huge air gap ) severely weakening the field strength in the coil, causing an nice inductive kick as it comes and goes. The rub is that because zero field goes through the super-conductor then there are zero eddy currents and zero increased attraction when you load the output. Since it blocks instead of shorts, it's like being able to pull the coil away and then put it close again with out the effort being needed. At least the effort to push it into the gap is close to equal to the effort gained when it leaves the gap. It's repelling both ways ( going in and coming out ) regardless of the way the field from the coil reverses. Does this make any sense? scottb -----Original Message----- From: hamdi ucar To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Saturday, December 18, 1999 1:04 PM Subject: Re: Instruction for the making of the perpetuum mobile is enclosed. (physics/9912022) > >Hi Fred, > >I downloaded and quickly read the patent. I had not yet figure out why switching a magnetic field by diamagnetic material blockage do not consume mechanical work equal to the power generated from induction while all other means of switching methods are proved conservative. Is some specific property of the SC material used for this unbalance (like the paper about PM)? > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 18 23:23:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA01911; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 23:22:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 23:22:47 -0800 Message-ID: <385C8A4A.61E9A96F@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 02:33:30 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" Reply-To: H2OPower@listbot.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: energy21 , "exotic@casagrande.com" , freenrg-l , jlnlabs , "Michael S. Johnston" , "nuenergy@listbot.com" , "nuenergy2@listbot.com" Subject: Commercial Link for Brown's gas Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------203E07F6E4BF54FD8CCF2DF5" Resent-Message-ID: <"GpJub2.0.jT.6V8Nu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13252 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------203E07F6E4BF54FD8CCF2DF5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I found this link having to do with Brown's "mysterious" gas from water. It's a pretty cool site with videos and all but it is commercial and so they try to sell you something. Never the less if you are into alternative energies it's worth a look. Link: http://www.ucsofa.com/Browns%20Gas.htm MJ --------------203E07F6E4BF54FD8CCF2DF5 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Michael S. Johnston Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Michael S. Johnston n: ;Michael S. Johnston org: My site http://1dove.com/msj/ email;internet: enki@csrlink.net title: Jim's Free Energy Site http://geocities.com/frenrg/ x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------203E07F6E4BF54FD8CCF2DF5-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 18 23:24:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA01866; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 23:22:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 23:22:33 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19991219000435.0a8feae4@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 00:04:35 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Is large farad capacitor suitable for impulse? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991218223239.00810100@mail.oz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"VAYpE1.0.4T.uU8Nu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13251 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:32 PM 12/18/99 -0800, you wrote: >Hi gang! At a car stereo shop last week I saw a 1-farad 20v capacitor, like >a tall can of Fosters beer. I'm doing electromagnetic impulse experiments >by discharging a capacitor into a coil. > >What's inside one of these caps? Would it be suitable for a massive >discharge in, say, 4-msec or less? 4 msec would be probably too fast for an electrolytic capacitor like this one. That would be >2000Amps and they usually cannot supply this type of current, as that is <0.01 Ohm total circuit resistance, including the capacitor's. Can you try it and measure the discharge time? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 19 02:08:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA21162; Sun, 19 Dec 1999 02:08:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 02:08:31 -0800 Message-ID: <00b201bf4a08$fd24bba0$759f22c4@Martin.icon.co.za> From: "Martin" To: Subject: Re: Is large farad capacitor suitable for impulse? Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 11:43:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"ukxLv.0.ZA5.UwANu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13253 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Generally speaking the so called super caps cannot deliver the current required for pulse power experiments. I know of a few people who have tried them in coil gun and em repulsion tests and they have all gone back to using caps rated for pulse purposes. Those would be great for energy experiments though. Regards Martin http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/ _______________________________________________ We have enough gun control. What we need is idiot and criminal control. _______________________________________________ >Hi gang! At a car stereo shop last week I saw a 1-farad 20v capacitor, like >a tall can of Fosters beer. I'm doing electromagnetic impulse experiments >by discharging a capacitor into a coil. > >What's inside one of these caps? Would it be suitable for a massive >discharge in, say, 4-msec or less? > >Thanks for your insight, >Barry >coilgun@oz.net >http://www.oz.net/~coilgun/home.htm > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 19 06:00:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA10103; Sun, 19 Dec 1999 06:00:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 06:00:44 -0800 Message-ID: <385CE554.2A4A@cyberportal.net> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 09:01:56 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Electronic Gun Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZSSZH.0.iT2.BKENu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13254 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.oz.net/~coilgun/home.htm If anyone is interested in this type of protection device I will put together a product next year. It will be supplied with razer-sharp projectiles. This protection device will be a modified version of the enclosed URL. The modification will make the EXPERIMENTAL PROTOTYPE just as lethal as a 38 caliper special. There is one added feature. They are silent and do not use an explosive projectile. The price for this purchase should be around $150.00 with five specially designed razer-sharp projectiles. Additional projectiles would be around $2.00 each. An automatic projectile feeder could be added to the unit for an additional $75.00 If there are enough requests for this I will make this a product next year and they could be sold until congress decides to ban them. Reluctantly, Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 19 06:06:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA11982; Sun, 19 Dec 1999 06:06:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 06:06:49 -0800 Message-ID: <385CE629.919C1A96@mail.admiral.ru> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 17:05:30 +0300 From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Reply-To: frolov@mail.admiral.ru Organization: Home Lab X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: unsibscribe References: <00b201bf4a08$fd24bba0$759f22c4@Martin.icon.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nlWj-2.0.7x2.uPENu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13255 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 19 13:55:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA24803; Sun, 19 Dec 1999 13:55:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 13:55:50 -0800 Message-ID: <385D54AF.1CF6@cyberportal.net> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 16:57:03 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: Electronic Gun//// Bruce,,,you can't do that!!! Only plans,,,,other wise they... References: <001301bf4a4c$020adee0$83570418@Gary.ocnsd1.sdca.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ge5hJ2.0.R36.aHLNu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13256 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Gary Young wrote: > > will put you in jail for making leathal weapons,,,,it isn't important what > kind you make! PLEASE DON'T DO IT!.....Gary (:-( There are law against this? A person can not build something to protect life and property, most of all liberty? -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 19 14:24:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA32511; Sun, 19 Dec 1999 14:24:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 14:24:51 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 12:24:37 -1000 Subject: Re: Electronic Gun//// Bruce,,,you can't do that!!! Only plans,,,,other wise they... From: Rick Monteverde To: freenrg Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <385D54AF.1CF6@cyberportal.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CNdAK1.0.kx7.oiLNu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13258 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Of course there's no law against *building* it. But if you use it on somebody, even a burglar in your home, *especially* in a sort of booby-trap mode, you're going to be charged with a crime for it. Better to just use a gun, IMHO. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI on 12/19/99 11:57 AM, Bruce A. Perreault at nuenergy@cyberportal.net wrote: > Gary Young wrote: >> >> will put you in jail for making leathal weapons,,,,it isn't important what >> kind you make! PLEASE DON'T DO IT!.....Gary (:-( > > > There are law against this? A person can not build something > to protect life and property, most of all liberty? > > > -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 19 14:31:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA01794; Sun, 19 Dec 1999 14:31:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 14:31:22 -0800 Message-ID: <385D5BFC.1162@cyberportal.net> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 17:28:12 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Slated Year 2000 products Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Zagli.0.wR.voLNu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13259 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Many times I hear where is the products? When will something be made available? This list should give you an idea of what to expect from me. Here are a list of products that will be sold at the opening of the Exotic Research July Conference. http://www.exoticresearch.com/events/program/prgframe.htm Product List: 1. Transducer to hear the sounds of the Cosmos 2. Star-mode electrodes and holder 3. 25 watt hour per cubic cm. super-cell... 1kg = 7,000 watts for one hour. 4. Tesla Patent CD-ROM & Moray Research CD-ROM 5. Nu Millennium Power Cords (this product will be explained in more detail next year) 6. Radiant Energy the Holy Grail Booklet 7. Rare Research Data * Backburner -> Radiant Energy Receiver (non-radioactive) This device will not be offered until it is fully validated. Two or three outside Engineers, or Scientists will be asked to provide a complete professional report. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 19 21:25:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA13843; Sun, 19 Dec 1999 21:25:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 21:25:15 -0800 Message-ID: <000701bf4aab$7350c740$59a270d1@acer> From: "sparky" To: , Cc: , Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 20:31:17 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"lzuTu3.0.CO3.xsRNu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13260 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Your statement don't make any sense! What powers a nucular sub or nucular power plant? TNT? -----Original Message----- From: Bruce A. Perreault To: nuenergy@listbot.com Cc: nuenergy2@listbot.com ; freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Saturday, December 18, 1999 6:50 AM Subject: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! >Pre-conference Press Release: > > >U-235 and Radium are CATALYSTS that speed up chemical reactions. >For example; one ton of T.N.T. can be made to give up its' energy >in a shorter span of time. This gives the illusion that more >energy has been released. The truth is that equal amounts of energy >are released with or without the radioactive catalyst. > >More details will be released at the Year 2000 Exotic Research >Conference. >Nikola Tesla was correct when he stated that energy can not be obtained >from radioactive matter. This will become clear at the conference. > > >Reference > >The Chemical Effects of Alpha Particles and Electrons >by Samuel C. Lind, PH.D. >U.S. Bureau of Mines 1921 > > > > -Bruce A. Perreault > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 19 21:34:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA17316; Sun, 19 Dec 1999 21:34:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 21:34:32 -0800 Message-ID: <002b01bf4aac$c05cc9c0$59a270d1@acer> From: "sparky" To: , Cc: , , Subject: Re: NU ANNOUNCEMENT Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 20:40:39 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"WmSZL2.0.SE4.e_RNu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13261 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Why did you tell us that? -----Original Message----- From: Bruce A. Perreault To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Cc: exotic@casagrande.com ; nuenergy@listbot.com ; nuenergy2@listbot.com Date: Saturday, December 18, 1999 10:00 AM Subject: NU ANNOUNCEMENT >ANNOUNCEMENT > >All the facts are now in... The Year 2000 Conference promises >to bring closure to the "free energy" arena. Atomic Energy is >not what it appears to be! This will become crystal clear at >this upcoming conference. Energy is all around us just waiting >to do our bidding. The Radiant Energy Receiver could absolete >nuclear energy marking it as a mere stepping stone. > > > -Bruce A. Perreault > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 20 05:30:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA30595; Mon, 20 Dec 1999 05:30:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 05:30:08 -0800 Message-ID: <385E2FA1.6F8B@cyberportal.net> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 08:31:13 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sparky CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! References: <000701bf4aab$7350c740$59a270d1@acer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0h-_J3.0.xT7.WzYNu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13262 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: sparky wrote: > > Your statement don't make any sense! What powers a nuclear sub or nuclear > power plant? TNT? It will make perefect sense once I publish my full statement. RADON-219 released from U-235 in the "fuel rods" react with the "Zircalloy" cladding generating secondary radiation. This radiation is the spark-plug. Call it what you will. The fuel in the reactors used today is actually in the water (moderator). The deuterium and tritium in the water is literally burned! I only used TNT as an example that radioactive material is a mere catalyst to chemical acceleration. I have already said too much. You will have to wait for July. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 20 08:17:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA03746; Mon, 20 Dec 1999 08:17:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 08:17:46 -0800 Message-ID: <385E56E9.29703685@info2000.net> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 09:18:49 -0700 From: Ted Reply-To: tsleber@info2000.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Experiment #1 References: <008701bf4927$86f4b700$09c22bd1@skot-s-cow> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AxzHh.0.Rw.fQbNu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13263 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scottb, NaCl=Sodium cloride=common table salt. Use non-iodized. Ted From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 20 09:50:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA08359; Mon, 20 Dec 1999 09:50:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 09:50:25 -0800 Message-ID: <385E6C9F.DE2D923B@info2000.net> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 10:51:27 -0700 From: Ted Reply-To: tsleber@info2000.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: magnetic fields and plasma References: <19991218081000.21806.qmail@hotmail.com> <385B69CB.2EE55CA3@csrlink.net> <385B6C09.41D3FD0B@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fG1BC2.0.S22.XncNu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13264 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Berry, You might be interested in the GEET project. It is a plasma generator. I spoke to Paul Pantone (the inventor) at the '99 Phoenix Exotic Research seminar. He said that if you didn't ground the unit to the engine, it would erase credit cards from three feet away. Also he said you would get HV discharges from an ungrounded unit. Have a great day, Ted From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 20 10:33:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA26980; Mon, 20 Dec 1999 10:33:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 10:33:34 -0800 Message-ID: <385E7642.48D2@cyberportal.net> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 13:32:34 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: skot CC: halfox@slkcpop1.slkc.uswest.net, nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com, vman@skylink.net Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! References: <001501bf4b0c$afc9ec40$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nEgmK1.0.Sb6.zPdNu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13265 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Skot, Exactly!!! I knew someone would pick-up on this sooner or later. There is something to look for too that will confirm or reject my notion. You will have to wait until July for the rest of the story. -Bruce A. Perreault skot wrote: > > If what you are saying is true then that explains why you can have cold fusion > without creating radiation. > > scottb > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce A. Perreault > To: sparky > Cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com ; nuenergy@listbot.com > ; nuenergy2@listbot.com > Date: Monday, December 20, 1999 5:27 AM > Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! > > >sparky wrote: > >> > >> Your statement don't make any sense! What powers a nuclear sub or nuclear > >> power plant? TNT? > > > > > >It will make perefect sense once I publish my full statement. > > > >RADON-219 released from U-235 in the "fuel rods" react with > >the "Zircalloy" cladding generating secondary radiation. This > >radiation is the spark-plug. Call it what you will. The fuel > >in the reactors used today is actually in the water (moderator). > >The deuterium and tritium in the water is literally burned! > > > >I only used TNT as an example that radioactive material is a > >mere catalyst to chemical acceleration. > > > >I have already said too much. You will have to wait for July. > > > > > > -Bruce A. Perreault > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 20 13:52:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA13054; Mon, 20 Dec 1999 13:52:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 13:52:26 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 16:43:02 -0500 Subject: Electrolysis of Water; Experiment #1 ad nauseam Message-ID: <19991220.164533.-427849.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,10-11,18-19,24-25,37-38 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_0Y7c2.0.tB3.PKgNu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13266 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mr. Johnston, Why do we have to be drawn back to the time of Faraday, if not earlier? A moving charge induces a magnetic field and a moving magnetic field induces an electric field. There is nothing so very difficult about that. The moving magnet, in "Experiment #1," induces an electric current in the water. Because of the shape of the water conductor, the energy is effectively transmitted to the galvanometer (i.e. the compass). It does not matter if the water conductor is replaced by an iron conductor, an electric current will still be introduced. Wat good does your "revelation" do? How does it contribute to our mutual knowledge? Please save yourself the trouble of telling me that I don't know what I am talking about. I may not always have the exactly correct terms, but I have done many experiments with electrolysis, which is all that your device in the series of papers you presented does. It still remains for you to prove that doing electrolysis your way provides free energy. If you will recall my previous posts then you will see that you did not succeed in this before. As a side point, H20 (l) <---> H+ (aq) + OH- (aq) is not exactly the case. H+ is a lone proton, and what tends to happen is that it associates with another water molecule. Therefore, 2 H2O (l) <----> H3O+ (aq) + OH- (aq) is a better representation of reality. This reaction very, very heavily favors the left hand side. As far as the "deadly chlorine gas" is concerned, just be careful. I have not observed chlorine gas to be generated, at least not to any appreciable extent, unless the ions are restricted in their flow, as by a semipermeable barrier (of asbestos, for example). When this happens, chlorine gas and elemental sodium, which very rapidly reacts with the water to form sodium hydroxide and molecular hydrogen, are formed. The chlorine gas is heavier than air, and is produced in such small quantities (in experiments not involving extremely rapid electrolysis) that it is a simple matter to ventilate the area of the gas. Be forewarned, however, that chlorine can (I've heard) cause a certain type of pneumonia that is incurable. At very least, it is extremely irritating to the lungs and mucous membranes. -Tom Grimes ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 20 15:43:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA22589; Mon, 20 Dec 1999 15:43:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 15:43:46 -0800 Message-ID: <385EBF2E.E23AB736@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 15:43:42 -0800 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-L@eskimo.com" Subject: re Electrolytic seperation of water Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BMOzi1.0.sW5.nyhNu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13267 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To all, esp to Mr. Micheal Johnston, That water may be split with electric current, isn't novel...nor is the use of common table salt as an electrolyte. Minus all the verbage, electrolytic cells of this type will consume some number of watts of power to generate some number of cubic feet of gas. This is the same for series and parallel cells, using DC current. I see nothing whatsoever in the Johnston verbage that changes the usual textbook numbers for doing this. Michael, if you are experimenting..good for you..but so far all you have done is verify the existing body of thought. Each cell, in series will take extra wattage to run..you cannot change this, at least not with ordinary DC. BTW running internal combustion engines on the hydrogen thus created goes back a long ways..even prior to the 1934 Pappy Winn experiments...before Dad Garrett, and long before you took up the torch! I'm not saying stop exerimenting! I merely am suggesting that you reduce the volume of verbage, and confine your research to that which is NEW or DIFFERENT from the existing body of knowledge. Show us a way to split water in your series cells without incurring the I**2R losses! Now THAT would be a miracle! ;) Might I suggest you try building a cell that uses 42KHz electric energy? -Erik From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 21 09:46:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA02286; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:46:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:46:31 -0800 Message-ID: <385FBD42.6841@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 12:47:46 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@listbot.com CC: nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Water Atomizer Boards Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qzveQ.0.dZ.spxNu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13269 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Today I ordered four 2.4Mhz. atomizer boards. I will resell them for $30.00 per board plus $6.00 for shipping. They are due to arrive the first week of January. If anyone is interesting in buying one of these boards please let me know and I will order from the manufacturer accordingly. http://www.nuenergy.org/neb.htm -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 21 11:34:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA07556; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:34:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:34:39 -0800 Message-ID: <385FD5DD.279A@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 14:32:45 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Clean Reactors? (revised) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VFtOx.0.yr1.FPzNu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13270 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Is it possible to build a "Clean Reactor?" U-235 and Radium are catalysts that speed up chemical reactions. For example; one ton of T.N.T. can be made to give up its' energy in a shorter span of time. In this example the illusion is given that more energy has been released. The truth is that equal amounts of energy are released with or without a radioactive catalyst. Full details will be released at the Year 2000 Exotic Research Conference. This catalytic effect will release the energy of the atoms as it does in the commercial nuclear reactor. However, it does not have to end there. It is highly likely that we can design reactors that will release electricity directly. Without the excessive heat losses! Reactors today release neutrons that create deadly radiotoxins. Why not build clean reactors that do not generate excessive neutron release? -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 21 11:39:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA10271; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:39:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:39:30 -0800 Message-ID: <000d01bf4bea$62e57aa0$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: Clean Reactors? (revised) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:34:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"yJmbv3.0.OW2.oTzNu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13271 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: tease... -----Original Message----- From: Bruce A. Perreault To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Cc: nuenergy@listbot.com ; nuenergy2@listbot.com Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 11:31 AM Subject: Clean Reactors? (revised) >Is it possible to build a "Clean Reactor?" > >U-235 and Radium are catalysts that speed up chemical reactions. >For example; one ton of T.N.T. can be made to give up its' energy >in a shorter span of time. In this example the illusion is given >that more energy has been released. The truth is that equal >amounts of energy are released with or without a radioactive >catalyst. Full details will be released at the Year 2000 Exotic >Research Conference. > >This catalytic effect will release the energy of the atoms as it >does in the commercial nuclear reactor. However, it does not have >to end there. It is highly likely that we can design reactors that >will release electricity directly. Without the excessive heat losses! > >Reactors today release neutrons that create deadly radiotoxins. >Why not build clean reactors that do not generate excessive neutron >release? > > > -Bruce A. Perreault > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 21 12:35:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA31178; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 12:35:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 12:35:10 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991221154054.0119fd70@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:40:54 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Colin Quinney Subject: Re: Clean Reactors? (revised) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Xg6rm3.0.uc7.zH-Nu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13272 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:32 PM 12/21/99 -0500, Bruce wrote: >Is it possible to build a "Clean Reactor?" >It is highly likely that we can design reactors that >will release electricity directly. Without the excessive heat losses! > >Reactors today release neutrons that create deadly radiotoxins. >Why not build clean reactors that do not generate excessive neutron >release? Hi Bruce, Whatever happened to MIGMA? The last I heard it was almost [last stage in prototype] ready for production, and this was in an article in Omni magazine sometime around 1986-- an article expounded on a non radioactive process of fission. Aneutronic, I think it was called. I can't recall what MIGMA stands for or the inventor's name but it used a self focusing beam of protons to fission a Lithium substrate into generating more protons. Directed with superconductor magnetic fields, this rush of protonic matter was focused right back onto the substrate again. Little or no neutron radiation to speak of. Bruce, you also once mentioned this on your web site. Is this what you are referring to here? How difficult would it be to make one of those things? Potentially even scaled down to 50,000 Watts, as I remember-- could some of us build one in the garage using NIB's, I wonder? (Sounds like a difficult project :) Are you speaking of this? Colin Quinney From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 21 13:18:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA15738; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:18:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:18:07 -0800 Message-ID: <385FEE14.D72@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:16:04 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: Clean Reactors? (revised) References: <3.0.5.32.19991221154054.0119fd70@inforamp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cHGAM.0.or3.Fw-Nu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13273 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Colin Quinney wrote: > > > Hi Bruce, > > Whatever happened to MIGMA? I think it died on the vine. The military does not want a reactor that does not breed weapons-grade material. I think this is the bottom line. > > The last I heard it was almost [last stage in prototype] ready for > production, and this was in an article in Omni magazine sometime around > 1986-- an article expounded on a non radioactive process of fission. > Aneutronic, I think it was called. I can't recall what MIGMA stands for or > the inventor's name but it used a self focusing beam of protons to fission > a Lithium substrate into generating more protons. Directed with > superconductor magnetic fields, this rush of protonic matter was focused > right back onto the substrate again. Little or no neutron radiation to > speak of. Bruce, you also once mentioned this on your web site. Is this > what you are referring to here? No... but it is an excellent example of a clean nuclear reaction. http://www.nuenergy.org/maglich.htm > > How difficult would it be to make one of those things? Potentially even > scaled down to 50,000 Watts, as I remember--could some of us build one > in the garage using NIB's, I wonder? (Sounds like a difficult project :) Yes, very difficult. I am experimenting with relatively simple set-ups. I am presently focused on my radiant energy research. It is showing promise without the need for nuclear material. Energy is all around us just waiting to be absorbed. Normal chemical oxidation is releasing untold amounts of ions waiting to be grabbed and converted. My pockets have holes in them so this has been a slow process. I get in orders here and there from the website to keep things going. After the bills are paid I take what ever is left over and It takes every last penny from what ever is left after I also take what is left over and use it to move forward. This is not also so easy. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 21 15:07:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA20079; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:07:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:07:25 -0800 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:07:02 -0500 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:07:10 -0500 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:35:05 -0500 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: H2 From Water - Hey look again In-reply-to: <3852D0C3.ED7D4088@csrlink.net> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:07:00 -0500 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2352ZYGCPWQZU X400-MTS-identifier: [;20708112219991/4342385@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"AyTA92.0.Xv4.iW0Ou"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13274 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey All, Read this again!!! > Parts 5 and up are the good ones. Only test I did so far was to hook 3 >cells in line with each other on a 12v 2a battery charger. All 3 cells in >the circuit put out as much gas as they would have if they were the only >one. THAT is the whole secret. > MJ Doesn't that remind you of something!!! Think back to spark gaps generating a back pulse of electricity under the right conditions. Now tie that in with MJ's cells in series. The last cell generates a back pulse, which is fed to the previous cell which also generates a back pulse, which is sent to the previous cell and so on. This eventually gets back to the original cell and starts the cycle all over again. Think about it. Is this it? Just keep adding cells for the same power input, unlimited Hydrogen production!!! Hook it up to any IC engine/generator, unlimited nonpolluting free electricity. JLN, Stefan, All you guys that did the spark gap work, what do you think? Bill webriggs@concentric.net briggs@XLNsystems.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 21 16:07:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA11811; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:07:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:07:08 -0800 Message-ID: <3860161F.3DE40DB2@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:06:55 -0800 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: H2 From Water - Hey look again References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fWyBO1.0.Gu2.aO1Ou"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13275 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: > Hey All, > > Read this again!!! > > > Parts 5 and up are the good ones. Only test I did so far was to hook 3 > >cells in line with each other on a 12v 2a battery charger. All 3 cells in > >the circuit put out as much gas as they would have if they were the only > >one. THAT is the whole secret. > > MJ > > Doesn't that remind you of something!!! > > Think back to spark gaps generating a back pulse of electricity under the > right conditions. Now tie that in with MJ's cells in series. The last > cell generates a back pulse, which is fed to the previous cell which also > generates a back pulse, which is sent to the previous cell and so on. This > eventually gets back to the original cell and starts the cycle all over > again. Think about it. Is this it? > > Just keep adding cells for the same power input, unlimited Hydrogen > production!!! Hook it up to any IC engine/generator, unlimited > nonpolluting free electricity. > > JLN, Stefan, All you guys that did the spark gap work, what do you think? > > Bill > webriggs@concentric.net > briggs@XLNsystems.com "back pulse"?? it's just 12 VDC he using! (although it would be 1/2 wave rectified DC from a battery charger..) I don't so..I think we need to measure the number of watt-hrs needed to evolve 1 mole of hydrogen in a single cell. Then add a second cell..measure the number of watt-hrs needed to evolve 2 moles of hydrogen...then do it for three cells. Also do these experiments using both pure DC and then with the 1/2 wave rectified DC; there might be a slight varience. There should be a standard, linear relationship between the number of watt-hrs needed to evolve 1 and 3 moles of hydrogen in the cells. IF there isn't, (and that's a big IF!) then perhaps it's time to begin to examine the process for a better and more accurate understanding. Now for those of you who didn't get the 42KHz reference..please reread the stuff on Keelynet. Keely claimed that around 40KHz there was a disassociation of ordinary water, by a process he termed "harmonic disintegration"..yes yes..I know..real scientists branded Keely a fraud and a fake! But, there is a relatively new product on the market which uses ultrasonics to create a cold fog from plain old tap water - and coincidently it runs right around 42KHz! Granted, cold fog from water using ultrasonics isn't actually the disassociation of hydrogen and oxygen, but once the water is turned into fog, then it might be possible to shear the molecules apart using some high voltage, a blast of laser light or perhaps by just adding some MODULATION to the ultrasonics, or by selecting the proper waveform(s)... GO PLAY! cheers! -Erik From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 21 17:20:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA04498; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:20:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:20:37 -0800 Message-ID: <386027AD.4BAE@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 20:21:49 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: patrick tremblay CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! References: <000701bf4aab$7350c740$59a270d1@acer> <385E2FA1.6F8B@cyberportal.net> <386023ED.A12F10F6@microtec.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GZ3yb.0.B61.bT2Ou"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13276 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: patrick tremblay, T.N.T. is used in the A-bomb. The energy is released in nanoseconds by adding the catalyst action of RADON-219 released from the U-235 added to the mix. It takes about five pounds of U-235 to flash. This means that all of the radon is released at once and an intense burst of ultraviolet light is released. This light acts as a catalyst to accelerate the CHEMICAL EXPLOSION. Tritium (H3) is the catalyst in the H-Bomb. No it is not clean, and it is definately not fusion. It is also an accelerated chemical reaction. http://www.nuenergy.org/pdf/testi.pdf Does this answer your question? What I have just stated I'm sure are military secrets. Believe what you want to believe. -Bruce A. Perreault patrick tremblay wrote: > > OH YEAH!!! > > THEN WHAT POWERS THE NUCLEAR BOMB...FISSION and FUSION and nothing else. > > "Bruce A. Perreault" wrote: > > > sparky wrote: > > > > > > Your statement don't make any sense! What powers a nuclear sub or nuclear > > > power plant? TNT? > > > > It will make perefect sense once I publish my full statement. > > > > RADON-219 released from U-235 in the "fuel rods" react with > > the "Zircalloy" cladding generating secondary radiation. This > > radiation is the spark-plug. Call it what you will. The fuel > > in the reactors used today is actually in the water (moderator). > > The deuterium and tritium in the water is literally burned! > > > > I only used TNT as an example that radioactive material is a > > mere catalyst to chemical acceleration. > > > > I have already said too much. You will have to wait for July. > > > > -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 21 20:31:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA03482; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 20:31:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 20:31:14 -0800 Message-ID: <38605408.BBF6A3BA@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 20:31:04 -0800 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-L@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! References: <000701bf4aab$7350c740$59a270d1@acer> <385E2FA1.6F8B@cyberportal.net> <386023ED.A12F10F6@microtec.net> <386027AD.4BAE@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"h1m9_3.0.Js.HG5Ou"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13277 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com "Bruce A. Perreault" wrote: > patrick tremblay, > > T.N.T. is used in the A-bomb. The energy is released in nanoseconds Whoa! Hold it..there is no TNT in any of the nuclear weapons in the US stocks! The materials used for implosion-type devices are more akin to a plastic explosive and have burn times that exceed TNT. The spherical compression wave happens inside of 1/100th of a second. > > by adding the catalyst action of RADON-219 released from the U-235 > added to the mix. It takes about five pounds of U-235 to flash. This > means that all of the radon is released at once and an intense burst > of ultraviolet light is released. This light acts as a catalyst to > accelerate the CHEMICAL EXPLOSION. > There may be some undocumented chemical reactions that occur during the ignition sequence, however I seriously doubt that this is a major component of the yield! > > Tritium (H3) is the catalyst in the H-Bomb. No it is not clean, and > it is definately not fusion. It is also an accelerated chemical > reaction. Let us not mince words, "chemical reaction" in this sense is the reaction which happens when a fissle chain reaction produces a temperature of over 10 million degrees! More than enough to light off the Lithium compounds (abet using Tritium as source of mobile neutrons) in a pair-bonding fusion reaction. > > > http://www.nuenergy.org/pdf/testi.pdf > > Does this answer your question? > Bruce, I've read that stuff on your website regarding the notions that the H-bomb didn't fuse - I don't buy it! The excess neutrons that are referred to come from the uranium 238 tamper that is/was wrapped around the core to act as a neutron-dense reflector. The scientists found (much to their surprise!) that the H-bomb was a lot hotter than they had calculated, and this was due to the reflector going thru a minor neutron flux induced transmutation from U238 to U239. They hadnt counted in the extra yield from the continued uranium chain reaction - that much is history! > > What I have just stated I'm sure are military secrets. > Believe what you want to believe. > > -Bruce A. Perreault No I think this stuff is pretty much well documented at the grad level. > I'll grant you that the widespread use of an aneutronic fusion reactor, like MIGMA would pretty much leave the DoD & DoE out in the cold when it comes to their needs for enriched bomb materials. The K-capture device is interesting, but I seriously doubt we need to toss our entire knowledge of nuclear physics out to make room for such things. A-bombs and H-bombs do not depend on an accelerated chemical explosion from TNT or any other conventional explosives! In fact, it's quite simple to build nuclear weapons that do use any conventional explosives at all - all that is required is for the fissle materials to be bathed in a sufficient neutron flux to initiate the chain reaction sequence. This COULD be accomplished in a number of ways...having the time- honored 'critical mass' alone could achieve it - there are a multitude of accidents in the nuclear industry that point to this simple fact. This too isn't classified..it's very well published. Just a sufficient quantity of U235, and a spring-loaded mechanism to slam the pieces together, inside a U238 shell - very much like the devices that China started with! Think it wont work? Think back to the situation that happened with Louis Slotin...when he was "Tickling the Dragon's Tail"...and that was a mere 2.0 pounds of U235! As an aside, if you look carefully...you will note a trend in nuclear weapons design that trend is the use of less and less conventional explosive in the construction. If what you are saying were true, the trend would be reversed! (At least up to the point where MIRV technology made it a good thing to build more smaller bombs) The actual reason for this trend is to reduce the chances of a "scatter"..where some part of the conventional explosive triggers late and the core is just blown into a lot of subcritical pieces. Less explosive also needs less complex timing and less worry about aging of the chemicals. You could, theoretically build a nuclear device with fractional kilo-ton yield, if you could find a way to spray a small (very very subcritical) amount of U235 with an intense neutron blast...perhaps from something similar to the Tritium version of Farnsworth's Fusor! All it takes is enough neutrons to start the chain reaction. Why not tell us how to build your OU Radiant Energy device? Most of us have signed the confidential non-disclosures with you...and it's not like anyone would have a chance in a court of law to rip you off. Cheers! -Erik From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 21 21:24:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA25783; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 21:24:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 21:24:28 -0800 Message-ID: <19991222052424.48017.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.232] From: "Timothy Flytcher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Clean Reactors? (revised) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 21:24:24 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"OxzAJ.0.hI6.B26Ou"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13278 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I remember MIGMA... My friend was following it pretty closely... Seems they had a little leak in there magnetic bottle... Cut a nice hole about six feet in diameter in the side of there containment building... luckily it was at an upward angle so it did not do any other damage... The hole project was quietly dropped... Timothy... >Whatever happened to MIGMA? > >The last I heard it was almost [last stage in prototype] ready for >production, and this was in an article in Omni magazine sometime around >1986-- an article expounded on a non radioactive process of fission. >Aneutronic, I think it was called. I can't recall what MIGMA stands for or >the inventor's name but it used a self focusing beam of protons to fission >a Lithium substrate into generating more protons. Directed with >superconductor magnetic fields, this rush of protonic matter was focused >right back onto the substrate again. Little or no neutron radiation to >speak of. Bruce, you also once mentioned this on your web site. Is this >what you are referring to here? How difficult would it be to make one of >those things? Potentially even scaled down to 50,000 Watts, as I remember-- >could some of us build one in the garage using NIB's, I wonder? (Sounds >like a difficult project :) Are you speaking of this? > >Colin Quinney > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 04:34:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA10555; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 04:33:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 04:33:49 -0800 Message-ID: <3860C577.4445@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 07:35:03 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ted Gondert CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TNT reaction with Uranium References: <38606E2E.BAA69916@teleweb.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NOxVn.0.qa2.iKCOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13279 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ted Gondert wrote: > > Now I aint no nuclear scientist. :-) But. seems to me the TNT was used > to implode the uranium together to critical mass for atomic bomb. Maybe > you should talk to those "idiot scientists" at Los Alamos who have been > researching atomic energy/bombs a few years now. :-) PS. where is TNT in > a nuclear power plant? It is replaced by an alloy called "zircalloy." The deuterium/tritium burn in water coverts the neutrons and gamma energies expelled to thermal energy. > > When you all have some scientific proof of your theories, let us know. > I'll also be waiting for Dennis Lee and UCSOFA to start making his "free > electricity" machines that run on the "fourth law of motion" where the > reaction is added to the action and doubles the power". ;-) Proof will be presented in July at the Exotic Research Conference. -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 04:54:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA14444; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 04:54:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 04:54:51 -0800 Message-ID: <3860CA65.2A6B@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 07:56:05 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eks1@earthlink.net CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! References: <000701bf4aab$7350c740$59a270d1@acer> <385E2FA1.6F8B@cyberportal.net> <386023ED.A12F10F6@microtec.net> <386027AD.4BAE@cyberportal.net> <38605408.BBF6A3BA@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vSya23.0.bX3.QeCOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13280 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com eks1 wrote: > > Whoa! Hold it..there is no TNT in any of the nuclear weapons in the US stocks! > The materials used for implosion-type devices are more akin to a plastic explosive > and have burn times that exceed TNT. The spherical compression wave happens > inside of 1/100th of a second. So what is your point? An explosive is still used! I say a nuclear bomb can not work without the chemical explosive. <> > > Let us not mince words, "chemical reaction" in this sense is the reaction which > happens when a fissle chain reaction produces a temperature of over 10 million > degrees! More than enough to light off the Lithium compounds (abet using Tritium > as source of mobile neutrons) in a pair-bonding fusion reaction. I agree... however, the release is not continous... it is a sharp spike! This is much like when a capacitors charge is dumped all at once. > > hotter than they had calculated, and this was due to the reflector going > thru a minor neutron flux induced transmutation from U238 to U239. They > hadnt counted in the extra yield from the continued uranium chain reaction > - that much is history! I do not doubt this... there is extra energy in the ultra-chemical change that is referenced in the above statement. <> > > A-bombs and H-bombs do not depend on an accelerated chemical explosion from > TNT or any other conventional explosives! In fact, it's quite simple to build > nuclear weapons that do use any conventional explosives at all - all that is > required is for the fissle materials to be bathed in a sufficient neutron flux > to initiate the chain reaction sequence. Ok... where do you get this neutron flux from? I am assuming you are talking about getting a flash from the critical mass of U-235? The flash by the way is mostly UV-light and x-rays. > > This COULD be accomplished in a number of ways...having the time- > honored 'critical mass' alone could achieve it - there are a multitude > of accidents in the nuclear industry that point to this simple fact. There have only been two accidental deaths due to a critical flash to the best of my knowledge. > > This too isn't classified..it's very well published. Just a sufficient > quantity of U235, and a spring-loaded mechanism to slam the pieces together, > inside a U238 shell - very much like the devices that China started with! You just said a mouthful... "inside a U238 shell." Enough said. :) <> > > As an aside, if you look carefully...you will note a trend in nuclear > weapons design that trend is the use of less and less conventional > explosive in the construction. Another mouthful... "less conventional explosive." If you use pure nitro then you would require alot less explosive. T.N.T. is mild compared to what we now have... plastic explosives is just to mention one. <> > > You could, theoretically build a nuclear device with fractional > kilo-ton yield, if you could find a way to spray a small > (very very subcritical) amount of U235 with an intense neutron blast. > perhaps from something similar to the Tritium version of Farnsworth's > Fusor! All it takes is enough neutrons to start the chain reaction. I agree... this point is well taken in my July release. :) > > > Why not tell us how to build your OU Radiant Energy device? I have... it is called "Radiant Energy the Holy Grail." > > Most of us have signed the confidential non-disclosures with you, > and it's not like anyone would have a chance in a court of law to rip > you off. In a court system where the victum is prosecuted, and freedom of speech is practically non-existant? Give me a break! -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 05:07:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA18299; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 05:07:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 05:07:22 -0800 Message-ID: <3860CD52.11FA@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:08:34 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: patrick tremblay CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! References: <000701bf4aab$7350c740$59a270d1@acer> <385E2FA1.6F8B@cyberportal.net> <386023ED.A12F10F6@microtec.net> <386027AD.4BAE@cyberportal.net> <38606553.6B3E5414@microtec.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_HfRg2.0.pT4.AqCOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13281 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com patrick tremblay wrote: > > WRONG, > > there is fission and there is fusion. What about radiations and what about > isotopes. What about them? > > If this was only a chemical effect, then how come there is transmutations. I never said that there is no nuclear effect. I only state that atomic energy is not all that it is cracked up to be. > > I am sure there is nuclear reactions, fission. and remember the early reactors > built for power had graphite as the moderator and not water, those were graphite > reactors. graphite and coolant gases. Try this formula; Carbon + Alpha Particle -> neutron + heat. > > Maybe as you say radioactive materials will catalyse chemical reactions, > and this is a very interesting find and I encourage you. But I am sure > the the MAIN process in a nuclear bomb are fission and fusion, and the > SECONDARY process would be the catalyst you find. Yes, I completely agree with you. Once my paper is released your nerves may be less jumpy. > > But there is another thing. The nuclear warheads, especially the Hydrogen bombs > using the ellipsoïd reflective container use U 238. that is the whole casing of the > warhead is made out of U 238 and that is a powerful neutron reflector. There is also a powerful amplification going on there too. > > when the initial burst of TNT strikes the fission part, it also produces neutrons, > those neutrons are reflected by the U 238 which keep the effect idle, this clearly > proves that if neutrons are involved, fission is also involved. It all depends on how you define "fission." Yes, there is fission that occurs. However, I beg to differ on what "fission" actually is. This will be addressed by me in July, 2000. > > and when the X-rays ( that are travelling faster than the explosion itself ), have > imploded the deuterium-tritium sphere, then the fusion occurs which yields an > enormous amount of neutrons. those neutrons are so intense that they are absorbed > by the body of the bomb made out of U 238, the body transmutes into U 239 and > then there is additionnal fission power that is released. Praise be!!! You have admitted it to your self!!! The x-rays (photons) cause the deuterium/tritium to burn! > > of course the neutrons emitted by the fusion are fast neutrons, travelling at > 20,000 miles per second, and so few of them are absorbed by the U 238, but there > are so much of them that the body of the bomb is completely destroyed in nuclear > fission. > > So if there is a catalyst chemical reaction, it is not the main energy source of > the bomb. It is the deuterium/tritium burn that releases the intense heat. Before this burn there is heat but there is very little from the nuclear reaction. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 05:13:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA21086; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 05:13:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 05:13:04 -0800 Message-ID: <3860CEA8.17F6@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:14:16 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robin van Spaandonk CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! References: <000701bf4aab$7350c740$59a270d1@acer> <385E2FA1.6F8B@cyberportal.net> <386023ED.A12F10F6@microtec.net> <386027AD.4BAE@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GVqU-3.0.H95.VvCOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13282 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > You won't get more energy out of TNT than it contains. The bomb they dropped > on Hiroshima had an explosive yield of 20000 tons of TNT. If the energy had > come from the TNT, then the bomb would have needed to weigh at least 20000 > tons. It didn't. The plane that dropped it wouldn't have gotten off the ground. How do you think lasers are fired? Try these examples; 1. Capacitor slowly discharged (normal TNT explosion) 2. Capacitor instantly discharged (catalytically assisted TNT explosion) * Please read Nikola Tesla's statements on capacitive discharge. Is anyone getting the picture yet? -Bruce A. Perreault > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 05:20:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA24555; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 05:20:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 05:20:00 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 00:19:55 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <000701bf4aab$7350c740$59a270d1@acer> <385E2FA1.6F8B@cyberportal.net> <386023ED.A12F10F6@microtec.net> <386027AD.4BAE@cyberportal.net> <3860CEA8.17F6@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <3860CEA8.17F6@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id FAA24534 Resent-Message-ID: <"F2OSY2.0.a_5.__COu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13283 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:14:16 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: [snip] >How do you think lasers are fired? With a very rapid discharge. This yields a high *rate* of energy delivery, but the amount of energy delivered is not all that large. The *amount* of energy delivered by the Hiroshima bomb was very large (it was also released in a short period of time). > >Try these examples; > >1. Capacitor slowly discharged (normal TNT explosion) > >2. Capacitor instantly discharged (catalytically assisted TNT explosion) In both cases the amount of energy delivered is the same. (But the percussive shock generated in the second case is greater). > > * Please read Nikola Tesla's statements on capacitive discharge. > > Is anyone getting the picture yet? Sorry, no. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 05:25:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA26923; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 05:25:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 05:25:23 -0800 Message-ID: <3860D18A.6FFA@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:26:34 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robin van Spaandonk CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! References: <000701bf4aab$7350c740$59a270d1@acer> <385E2FA1.6F8B@cyberportal.net> <386023ED.A12F10F6@microtec.net> <386027AD.4BAE@cyberportal.net> <3860CEA8.17F6@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2CBoP1.0.Wa6.35DOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13284 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > >How do you think lasers are fired? > > With a very rapid discharge. This yields a high *rate* of energy delivery, > but the amount of energy delivered is not all that large. > The *amount* of energy delivered by the Hiroshima bomb was very large (it > was also released in a short period of time). This is my point! The the explosive power of the TNT in the example is delivered at a high yield "rate." Do the math! > > In both cases the amount of energy delivered is the same. > (But the percussive shock generated in the second case is greater). Exactly! In the TNT eample it is the "percussive" thermal energy. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 05:37:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA30984; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 05:37:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 05:37:22 -0800 Message-ID: <3860D45D.A2F@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:38:37 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Newton's View on Energy and Power Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"C40it3.0.1a7.IGDOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13285 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com List member wrote: "Power is defined in classical mechanics as the amount of work done in a certain interval of time." This is what bruce means when he says TNT can make a hiroshima. Like a cell phone it releases a "little" energy in a VERY compressed time frame. This means the little ENERGY has more POWER. Energy and power are not equal. time must be factored. Fwd by Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 08:07:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA19670; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:06:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:06:50 -0800 Message-ID: <002101be4614$ac5b2fe0$a8d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <000701bf4aab$7350c740$59a270d1@acer> <385E2FA1.6F8B@cyberportal.net> <386023ED.A12F10F6@microtec.net> <386027AD.4BAE@cyberportal.net> <3860CEA8.17F6@cyberportal.net> Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:37:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"tjV_e1.0.0p4.PSFOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13286 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I don't mean to sound critical of you (I'm not sure I believe BAP either), but the RATE of discharge is exactly what he's been talking about. On a philosophical note: All knowledge is based on the past and must be based on the past, for we have nothing else to go on, and the past does not necessarily have relevance to the present or the future, so we can never really know anything for sure. Don't dismiss BAP as having erroneous ideas by basing your claims on other "facts". Sure, the conventional belief does not mesh with BAP's, but they can both be explained...apparently. Keep some doubt in your mind until July, then you can make your final decision if you like. ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin van Spaandonk To: Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 8:19 AM Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! > On Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:14:16 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > [snip] > >How do you think lasers are fired? > > With a very rapid discharge. This yields a high *rate* of energy delivery, > but the amount of energy delivered is not all that large. > The *amount* of energy delivered by the Hiroshima bomb was very large (it > was also released in a short period of time). > > > > >Try these examples; > > > >1. Capacitor slowly discharged (normal TNT explosion) > > > >2. Capacitor instantly discharged (catalytically assisted TNT explosion) > > In both cases the amount of energy delivered is the same. > (But the percussive shock generated in the second case is greater). > > > > > * Please read Nikola Tesla's statements on capacitive discharge. > > > > Is anyone getting the picture yet? > > Sorry, no. > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 08:09:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA20856; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:09:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:09:42 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991222111547.009d75c0@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 11:15:47 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Colin Quinney Subject: Re: Clean Reactors? (revised) In-Reply-To: <19991222052424.48017.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"9l7tE2.0.n55.5VFOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13287 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Timothy, Now that is interesting-- a particle beam, self focusing and more powerful than any known laser, discovered during the development of a clean nuclear fuel. Gee, I guess they shut it down to protect us from it. :-( What great fellows they are. :-) Can you tell us more about this? What lab or University lab? The time period, or any of the scientists working on it? Ask your friend if he wants to join the list. I just love buried information like that. Thanks, Colin Quinney At 09:24 PM 12/21/99 PST, Timothy wrote: >I remember MIGMA... My friend was following it pretty closely... Seems they >had a little leak in there magnetic bottle... Cut a nice hole about six feet >in diameter in the side of there containment building... luckily it was at >an upward angle so it did not do any other damage... The hole project was >quietly dropped... >Timothy... > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 08:18:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA23128; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:18:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:18:21 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 09:25:44 -0500 Subject: Re: H2 From Water - Hey look again Message-ID: <19991222.092548.-436371.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5,7,9-12,21-22,39-40 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YWryu3.0.2f5.DdFOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13288 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Hey All, > >Read this again!!! > >> Parts 5 and up are the good ones. Only test I did so far was to hook 3 >>cells in line with each other on a 12v 2a battery charger. All 3 cells in >>the circuit put out as much gas as they would have if they were the only >>one. THAT is the whole secret. >> MJ OK, I read it again. How were the amounts of H2 evolved measured? Were conditions standardized (i.e. temperature, current measured, voltage measured, etc.)? Were allowences made for measured conditions? Please keep in mind that since, according to chemistry, -285.8 kJ/mol is the standard enthalpy of formation for H2O, it should also take that much to separate it. It matters little where the energy comes from, and to assert "over unity" you need to keep track of any significant energy sources. It is deceptive to only look at how fast the reaction appears to be going. Incidentally, Michael Johnstons conductivity experiment suggests a modified apparatus that may provide a different experiment. Why not just fill a closed loop of tubing with electrolyte (i.e. an aqueous solution of NaCl) and loop it to form the secondary coil of a transformer. That way, you could electronically induce a current in the water without using electrodes. In the usual electrolysis setup gas is only observed being liberated at the electrodes. Presumably this is due to the fact that electron exchange occurs only there. If you induce a current without using electrodes, without adding or removing electrons, what is the result? If you put enough current through the solution, do the anions lose electrons to the cations? This experiment may, depending on the results, change the modern theory of electrolysis. I would like to credit Johnston here; he has put up with a lot of criticism and I want him to understand that I am in no way trying to discourage him or anyone else from experimenting with different theories. It's just that theories need to be exposed to criticism before they are validated, and bad or useless theories get trashed in the process. -Tom Grimes ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 10:50:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA03876; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:50:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:50:10 -0800 Message-ID: <38611DA9.69@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 13:51:21 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Your Name CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: TNT reaction with Uranium References: <38606E2E.BAA69916@teleweb.net> <3860C577.4445@cyberportal.net> <003701bf4ca1$549d3de0$5c4c4c0c@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9dAoC1.0.Ty.YrHOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13289 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Your Name wrote: > > > It is replaced by an alloy called "zircalloy." The deuterium/tritium > > burn in water coverts the neutrons and gamma energies expelled to > > thermal energy. > > I can't read these things and not respond. You obviously do not understand > the nature of nuclear reactions. They do not require anything other then a > mass of fissile material....no TNT or "zircalloy". Where is the TNT or > "zircalloy" in the sun?? It's a thermonuclear reactor. How do you explain > Cf252...which will attain critical mass after only a few grams are built up. > You need no implosion device, or any neutron reflectors, you need simply ~13 > grams of Cf252. What the heck is "cf252?" It is not on any of the charts that I have. You can use confined U235 and get a hell of alot of neutrons. To get heat you need the moderator. The sun a whole other ballgame. I won't get into it here. As it is now my simple announcement has turned into another spitting match to see who can spit the furthest. > > Also, many BWR's use heavy water, which has almost no T in it. Nothing but > D. So you are saying that the Tritium is taken out of the heavy water? > > If you really believe that nuclear energy is what you think it is, then > you are really, really, really backwards in your thinking. If you take D and > T, mix equal porportions of them, and blast them with a neutron stream > (which is aviable at Oak Ridge's High Neutron Flux reactor if you would like > to try it) you will get a lot of thermal energy - but only because the atoms > absorbing the n are getting the energy from the n. They don't magicly say > "well, here comes a n, lets make some heat!". > > Matt Runo Try exposing the D&T to intense x-rays my wise friend. Try taking the blinders off. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 10:54:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA06241; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:54:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:54:04 -0800 Message-ID: <38611E92.7AE6@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 13:55:14 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@listbot.com CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Revised Nuclear Statement Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aOncV3.0.PX1.CvHOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13290 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com U-235 and Radium are catalysts that speed up chemical reactions. For example; one ton of T.N.T. can be made to give up its' energy in a shorter span of time. Making a hiroshima type explosion. In this example the illusion is given that more energy has been released. "Power is defined in classical mechanics as the amount of work done in a certain interval of time." Like a high-voltage capacititor releases a "little" energy in a VERY compressed time frame. This means the little ENERGY has more POWER. Energy and power are not equal, time must be factored. Another Newton equation: M X A = F meaning: Mass times Acceleration equals the total Force expended. For the sake of argument the amount of TNT is the MASS. The rapid nanosecond delivery of the explosion will be the ACCELERATION. This very quick acceleration makes up for the little mass and creates a huge shock wave with lots of FORCE. Commercial reactors today release excess neutrons that create deadly radioisotopic toxins. By knowing the full truth about what goes on in these reactors it does not have to end here. It is highly likely that we can design reactors that will release electricity directly. Why not build clean reactors that do not generate excessive neutron release? Using nature as our teach we can! Full details will be released at the Year 2000 Exotic Research Conference. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 12:57:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA20956; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 12:56:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 12:56:54 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 07:56:46 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <000701bf4aab$7350c740$59a270d1@acer> <385E2FA1.6F8B@cyberportal.net> <386023ED.A12F10F6@microtec.net> <386027AD.4BAE@cyberportal.net> <3860CEA8.17F6@cyberportal.net> <002101be4614$ac5b2fe0$a8d666ce@default> In-Reply-To: <002101be4614$ac5b2fe0$a8d666ce@default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id MAA20925 Resent-Message-ID: <"RlquQ1.0.J75.LiJOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13291 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:37:00 -0500, Chris O'Barr wrote: > I don't mean to sound critical of you (I'm not sure I believe BAP >either), but the RATE of discharge is exactly what he's been talking about. Bruce originally proposed that the energy came from the chemical explosive, rather than from the nuclear material. This is just plain wrong (99.9999% certainty IMO). Nuclear materials (e.g. uranium, plutonium etc.) have repeatedly been shown to contain large amounts of energy, even in the absence of other explosives. While some argument may be made about the rate of energy release, the quantity of energy released in nuclear reactions is millions of times greater than in chemical reactions. (Note that the lithium deuteride in the H-bomb was put there explicitly as a nuclear material, not as a chemical explosive - which it isn't anyway). Bruce gives the impression that he believes that a more "brissant" explosive can explain the destruction of Hiroshima. It just aint so. The total energy release was enough to wipe out a city. The release of energy from the chemical explosive may have been enough to destroy one building. How fast it is released is only of secondary importance (assuming that both are within a fraction of a second). > > On a philosophical note: All knowledge is based on the past and must be >based on the past, for we have nothing else to go on, and the past does not >necessarily have relevance to the present or the future, so we can never >really know anything for sure. Agreed. > > Don't dismiss BAP as having erroneous ideas by basing your claims on >other "facts". Sure, the conventional belief does not mesh with BAP's, but >they can both be explained...apparently. As yet nothing is apparent. >Keep some doubt in your mind until >July, then you can make your final decision if you like. [snip] I always keep some doubt in my mind. However I also rate concepts as to their chances of being true. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 13:06:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA24119; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 13:06:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 13:06:38 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 08:06:32 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <000701bf4aab$7350c740$59a270d1@acer> <385E2FA1.6F8B@cyberportal.net> <386023ED.A12F10F6@microtec.net> <386027AD.4BAE@cyberportal.net> <3860CEA8.17F6@cyberportal.net> <3860D18A.6FFA@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <3860D18A.6FFA@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA24049 Resent-Message-ID: <"Le4R31.0.au5.TrJOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13292 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:26:34 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: [snip] >This is my point! The the explosive power of the TNT in the example is >delivered at a high yield "rate." Do the math! The rate is almost irrelevant when the nuclear energy released is millions of times greater than the chemical energy. I just did "millions" is a big number. > > >> >> In both cases the amount of energy delivered is the same. >> (But the percussive shock generated in the second case is greater). > > >Exactly! In the TNT eample it is the "percussive" thermal energy. No. A greater percussive shock, just means that whatever energy is present is released in a shorter amount of time. An example may serve to clarify things: An alpha particle striking your skin delivers a greater percussive shock than any explosive (for it's size), yet because the total energy delivered is so small, you don't even feel it. In fact you don't feel thousands of them hitting your skin every second. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 13:19:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA28609; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 13:19:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 13:19:05 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Newton's View on Energy and Power Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 08:19:00 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <5cf26sg094hsj3qsp8d93bl9m3888nnput@4ax.com> References: <3860D45D.A2F@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <3860D45D.A2F@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA28576 Resent-Message-ID: <"z3mgV.0.v-6.81KOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13293 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:38:37 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: >List member wrote: > >"Power is defined in classical mechanics as the amount of >work done in a certain interval of time." > >This is what bruce means when he says TNT can make a hiroshima. TNT can make a hiroshima, but you need 20000 tons of it. (unless you can bring about a nuclear reaction in the chemicals of the TNT, but this wouldn't be just a matter of making the same chemical reaction proceed at a faster rate). >Like a cell phone it releases a "little" energy in a VERY >compressed time frame. This means the little ENERGY has more POWER. The cell phone analogy is poor, because cell phones don't normally explode. What we have been doing here, is comparing explosives. >Energy and power are not equal. time must be factored. [snip] The definition of power is correct, but the destructive ability of an explosion is largely dependant upon the total energy release, not on the power (correct usage). Colloquially, we may speak of "powerful" explosions, but this is simply incorrect usage, and representative of the common confusion between energy and power. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 13:52:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA08011; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 13:52:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 13:52:27 -0800 From: Charlie Hodgson Reply-To: Charlie_Hodgson@s2systems.com Organization: Society for Real Time To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Newton's View on Energy and Power Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 16:52:26 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain References: <3860D45D.A2F@cyberportal.net> <5cf26sg094hsj3qsp8d93bl9m3888nnput@4ax.com> In-Reply-To: <5cf26sg094hsj3qsp8d93bl9m3888nnput@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99122217024903.21572@cougar> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA07953 Resent-Message-ID: <"g8rJ91.0.wy1.QWKOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13294 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 22 Dec 1999, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > On Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:38:37 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > > >"Power is defined in classical mechanics as the amount of > >work done in a certain interval of time." > > TNT can make a hiroshima, but you need 20000 tons of it. > (unless you can bring about a nuclear reaction in the chemicals of the TNT, > but this wouldn't be just a matter of making the same chemical reaction > proceed at a faster rate). > > >Energy and power are not equal. time must be factored. > [snip] > The definition of power is correct, but the destructive ability of an > explosion is largely dependant upon the total energy release, not on the > power (correct usage). Colloquially, we may speak of "powerful" explosions, > but this is simply incorrect usage, and representative of the common > confusion between energy and power >From the films I have seen, it would appear the shock waves do more of the damage than anything else. Bruce is correct in using the instantaneous power as opposed to total energy. I can think of a multitude of analogies where the release rate would make the difference. Sea walls are constantly battered by waves and can withstand this beating for decades. A single hurricane can destroy the wall in a matter of minutes, using less than a 'normal' days worth of water. 1000 sheets of paper, dropped from 25 feet at a release rate of 10 sheet per second, hitting your head, would be no more than annoying. Change the release rate to 10,000/second and it would be lethal. Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 14:34:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA20622; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 14:34:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 14:34:40 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Newton's View on Energy and Power Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:34:29 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <3860D45D.A2F@cyberportal.net> <5cf26sg094hsj3qsp8d93bl9m3888nnput@4ax.com> <99122217024903.21572@cougar> In-Reply-To: <99122217024903.21572@cougar> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA20577 Resent-Message-ID: <"K5tyA.0.425.-7LOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13295 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 22 Dec 1999 16:52:26 -0500, Charlie Hodgson wrote: [snip] >From the films I have seen, it would appear the shock waves do more >of the damage than anything else. Bruce is correct in using the >instantaneous power as opposed to total energy. I can think of a >multitude of analogies where the release rate would make the >difference. Yes shock waves are important, but less important than the total energy release. Which would you rather be confronted with - a "slow" explosion of a gallon of gasoline, or a fire cracker (much faster)? > >Sea walls are constantly battered by waves and can withstand this >beating for decades. A single hurricane can destroy the wall in a >matter of minutes, using less than a 'normal' days worth of water. This is because individual waves are larger during a hurricane, so that each one has more energy. > >1000 sheets of paper, dropped from 25 feet at a release rate of 10 >sheet per second, hitting your head, would be no more than annoying. >Change the release rate to 10,000/second and it would be lethal. In this situation, the rate at which your head can remove energy also plays a role. When comparing explosives, that isn't the case. The energy of an explosive is delivered so fast that the "target" doesn't have time to dissipate any energy worth mentioning anyway. Once this situation is achieved, the difference between whether a city is blown up, or just your garage depends on the total energy release, not on the power. Or to use Bruce's example with the lasers, the most powerful lasers in use have a *power* input greater than that of all the world's electricity generators combined, yet they don't destroy the cities where they are used (or even the building for that matter). [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 15:04:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA26924; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:04:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:04:02 -0800 Message-ID: <000f01be465b$7756d460$f4d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <000701bf4aab$7350c740$59a270d1@acer> <385E2FA1.6F8B@cyberportal.net> <386023ED.A12F10F6@microtec.net> <386027AD.4BAE@cyberportal.net> <3860CEA8.17F6@cyberportal.net> <002101be4614$ac5b2fe0$a8d666ce@default> Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:03:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"2rkKg2.0.ba6.XZLOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13296 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin van Spaandonk To: Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 3:56 PM Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! > On Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:37:00 -0500, Chris O'Barr wrote: > > > I don't mean to sound critical of you (I'm not sure I believe BAP > >either), but the RATE of discharge is exactly what he's been talking about. > > Bruce originally proposed that the energy came from the chemical explosive, > rather than from the nuclear material. This is just plain wrong (99.9999% > certainty IMO). Nuclear materials (e.g. uranium, plutonium etc.) have > repeatedly been shown to contain large amounts of energy, even in the > absence of other explosives. While some argument may be made about the rate > of energy release, the quantity of energy released in nuclear reactions is > millions of times greater than in chemical reactions. > (Note that the lithium deuteride in the H-bomb was put there explicitly as a > nuclear material, not as a chemical explosive - which it isn't anyway). > > Bruce gives the impression that he believes that a more "brissant" explosive > can explain the destruction of Hiroshima. It just aint so. The total energy > release was enough to wipe out a city. The release of energy from the > chemical explosive may have been enough to destroy one building. How fast it > is released is only of secondary importance (assuming that both are within a > fraction of a second). > > > > > On a philosophical note: All knowledge is based on the past and must be > >based on the past, for we have nothing else to go on, and the past does not > >necessarily have relevance to the present or the future, so we can never > >really know anything for sure. > > Agreed. > > > > > Don't dismiss BAP as having erroneous ideas by basing your claims on > >other "facts". Sure, the conventional belief does not mesh with BAP's, but > >they can both be explained...apparently. > > As yet nothing is apparent. > > >Keep some doubt in your mind until > >July, then you can make your final decision if you like. > [snip] > I always keep some doubt in my mind. However I also rate concepts as to > their chances of being true. > As do I. And I'm leaning toward the conventional explanation of the matter. But I really don't know... > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 17:13:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA02900; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:13:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:13:28 -0800 Message-ID: <38617711.186F@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 20:12:49 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: The Truth will be known Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kujm11.0.Dj.uSNOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13297 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com To Whom It May Concern, I have almost fifty releases addressed and ready to to be delivered through the U.S. Postal system. These letters will go out to Science Magazines and key Newspapers. They will be sent out three days before my July Conference lecture. There will be no denying the facts. References will be provided. Have any of you doubting Thomas's bothered to check the reference that I have already provided? What agency did you say you work for? The Chemical Effects of Alpha Particles and Electrons by Samuel C. Lind, PH.D. U.S. Bureau of Mines 1921 -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 17:24:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA07427; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:24:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:24:38 -0800 Message-ID: <38617A20.7FD3@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 20:25:52 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Your Name Subject: Re: TNT reaction with Uranium References: <38606E2E.BAA69916@teleweb.net> <3860C577.4445@cyberportal.net> <003701bf4ca1$549d3de0$5c4c4c0c@default> <38611DA9.69@cyberportal.net> <001001bf4cbb$95a0c540$3e4c4c0c@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ymAeo2.0.up1.MdNOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13298 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Your Name wrote: > > Cf252 is chemical notation for Californium 252, just like U235 is for > Uranium 235. Yes, my eyes must be failing me. Californium is an artificial element created by bombarding curium with helium ions. Curium is also an artificial element created when plutonium is bombarded with helium ions. So, we are talking about isotopes that have been artificially loaded with neutrons. They are intense neutron emitters! So what is your point? > > There is hardly any Tritium in water - any water - in the first place. To > get T you pretty much have to make it. It only has a ~12 year half live, so > there is hardly any in the world that is natural. When you concentrate the deuterium concentration by electrolysis it goes to reason that the tritium concentration will also rise. Heavy water is seperated from ordinary water. Is it not? > > It was my understanding that you were talking about exposing it to neutron > radiation. If this is not what you were talking about I'm sorry. > > Matt Runo Did I say neutrons? -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 17:34:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA10629; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:34:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:34:53 -0800 Message-ID: <38617C86.21EA@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 20:36:06 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! References: <000701bf4aab$7350c740$59a270d1@acer> <385E2FA1.6F8B@cyberportal.net> <386023ED.A12F10F6@microtec.net> <386027AD.4BAE@cyberportal.net> <3860CEA8.17F6@cyberportal.net> <002101be4614$ac5b2fe0$a8d666ce@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"l4sbN.0.-b2.zmNOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13299 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > On Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:37:00 -0500, Chris O'Barr wrote: > > > I don't mean to sound critical of you (I'm not sure I believe BAP > >either), but the RATE of discharge is exactly what he's been talking about. > > Bruce originally proposed that the energy came from the chemical explosive, > rather than from the nuclear material. This is just plain wrong (99.9999% > certainty IMO). Nuclear materials (e.g. uranium, plutonium etc.) have > repeatedly been shown to contain large amounts of energy, even in the > absence of other explosives. While some argument may be made about the rate > of energy release, the quantity of energy released in nuclear reactions is > millions of times greater than in chemical reactions. > (Note that the lithium deuteride in the H-bomb was put there explicitly as a > nuclear material, not as a chemical explosive - which it isn't anyway). > > Bruce gives the impression that he believes that a more "brissant" explosive > can explain the destruction of Hiroshima. It just aint so. The total energy > release was enough to wipe out a city. The release of energy from the > chemical explosive may have been enough to destroy one building. How fast it > is released is only of secondary importance (assuming that both are within a > fraction of a second). It could not been done without some kind of moderator. Without the moderator there is no thermal release! You get an intense flash of mostly Ultraviolet light! That's why they used to use shielding! I have this from a source who was in charge of safety at Hanford! Yes, this UV burns the skin. No I am not wrong. Yes, nuclear material has alot of energy stored but it isn't thermal! To use this stored energy it must be converted. Who did you say you work for? -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 17:38:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA12314; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:38:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:38:25 -0800 Message-ID: <38617D5B.260E@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 20:39:39 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! References: <000701bf4aab$7350c740$59a270d1@acer> <385E2FA1.6F8B@cyberportal.net> <386023ED.A12F10F6@microtec.net> <386027AD.4BAE@cyberportal.net> <3860CEA8.17F6@cyberportal.net> <3860D18A.6FFA@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZgnhL3.0.J03.FqNOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13300 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > The rate is almost irrelevant when the nuclear energy released is millions > of times greater than the chemical energy. I just did "millions" is a big > number. You are missing the whole lesson! You are too set in your ways. > > > > > > >> > >> In both cases the amount of energy delivered is the same. > >> (But the percussive shock generated in the second case is greater). > > > > > >Exactly! In the TNT eample it is the "percussive" thermal energy. > > No. A greater percussive shock, just means that whatever energy is present > is released in a shorter amount of time. An example may serve to clarify > things: > An alpha particle striking your skin delivers a greater percussive shock > than any explosive (for it's size), yet because the total energy delivered > is so small, you don't even feel it. In fact you don't feel thousands of > them hitting your skin every second. You have just minimized the effect of nuclear energy. You have now contradicted yourself. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 17:43:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA14772; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:43:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:43:06 -0800 Message-ID: <38617E73.40DD@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 20:44:19 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: Newton's View on Energy and Power References: <3860D45D.A2F@cyberportal.net> <5cf26sg094hsj3qsp8d93bl9m3888nnput@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oPuXi2.0.jc3.fuNOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13301 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > TNT can make a hiroshima, but you need 20000 tons of it. > (unless you can bring about a nuclear reaction in the chemicals of the TNT, > but this wouldn't be just a matter of making the same chemical reaction > proceed at a faster rate). Not when you have an catalyst that ionizes the chemicals. There is no point going on with you here. You will never see it because you are too rooted in what you have been taught at whatever University. Don't take this as a personal attack. It is not your fault. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 17:50:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA18022; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:50:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:50:11 -0800 Message-ID: <3861801E.76C@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 20:51:26 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: Newton's View on Energy and Power References: <3860D45D.A2F@cyberportal.net> <5cf26sg094hsj3qsp8d93bl9m3888nnput@4ax.com> <99122217024903.21572@cougar> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4uqwS2.0.RP4.J_NOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13302 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > >From the films I have seen, it would appear the shock waves do more > >of the damage than anything else. Bruce is correct in using the > >instantaneous power as opposed to total energy. I can think of a > >multitude of analogies where the release rate would make the > >difference. > > Yes shock waves are important, but less important than the total energy > release. Which would you rather be confronted with - a "slow" explosion of a > gallon of gasoline, or a fire cracker (much faster)? That slow explosion can be amplified million of times. If that slow explosion is made as fast as the fire cracker then what do you have? > > > > >Sea walls are constantly battered by waves and can withstand this > >beating for decades. A single hurricane can destroy the wall in a > >matter of minutes, using less than a 'normal' days worth of water. > > This is because individual waves are larger during a hurricane, so that each > one has more energy. > > > > >1000 sheets of paper, dropped from 25 feet at a release rate of 10 > >sheet per second, hitting your head, would be no more than annoying. > >Change the release rate to 10,000/second and it would be lethal. > > In this situation, the rate at which your head can remove energy also plays > a role. When comparing explosives, that isn't the case. The energy of an > explosive is delivered so fast that the "target" doesn't have time to > dissipate any energy worth mentioning anyway. Once this situation is > achieved, the difference between whether a city is blown up, or just your > garage depends on the total energy release, not on the power. > Or to use Bruce's example with the lasers, the most powerful lasers in use > have a *power* input greater than that of all the world's electricity > generators combined, yet they don't destroy the cities where they are used > (or even the building for that matter). You will never see it with your blinders on. I can add radium to an explosive and increase its yield by thousands. This is done by simply adding a few sprinkles of radium chloride. This is what you do not want people to know. There are many more nuts and bolt goodies that come to light once Pandora's box is opened. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 21:00:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA08048; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 21:00:13 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 21:00:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3861ABAF.80F3CDE5@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 20:57:19 -0800 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-L@eskimo.com" Subject: Perreault's View on Explosive Power References: <3860D45D.A2F@cyberportal.net> <5cf26sg094hsj3qsp8d93bl9m3888nnput@4ax.com> <99122217024903.21572@cougar> <3861801E.76C@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2RXd81.0.cz1.QnQOu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13303 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com "Bruce A. Perreault" wrote: > > You will never see it with your blinders on. I can add radium to an > explosive and increase its yield by thousands. This is done by simply > adding a few sprinkles of radium chloride. Wait..are you saying that mere sprinkling of radioactive material amongst a conventional explosive, for instance gunpowder, will literally increase it's yield (= explosive force) by thousands (of times)? You're serious? r e a l l y? So you're saying that a 3"x1" tube packed with gunpowder and a "few sprinkles" of radium chloride (I would guess on this scale that could mean as little as is held by the radium paint for an old fashioned alarm clock's hands and numerals) can give the same explosive power as..? A standard 105mm mortar round? I don't think so...and I've got ability to test this particular case. All that's going to happen is that the large firecracker (3"x1" about what an M80 carries) will blow the radium chloride (in the radium paint) all over the landscape..net gain in explosive power over a similar firecracker without the radium paint will be ZERO! (anyone up for a little gentlemen's bet? Say...$500US in crisp, new 20's??) ;) -Erik From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 22:22:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA13650; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 22:22:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 22:22:14 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Newton's View on Energy and Power Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 17:22:08 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <3860D45D.A2F@cyberportal.net> <5cf26sg094hsj3qsp8d93bl9m3888nnput@4ax.com> <38617E73.40DD@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <38617E73.40DD@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA13618 Resent-Message-ID: <"3E3DW1.0.7L3.L-ROu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13304 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 22 Dec 1999 20:44:19 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: >Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >> >> TNT can make a hiroshima, but you need 20000 tons of it. >> (unless you can bring about a nuclear reaction in the chemicals of the TNT, >> but this wouldn't be just a matter of making the same chemical reaction >> proceed at a faster rate). > > >Not when you have an catalyst that ionizes the chemicals. >There is no point going on with you here. You will never >see it because you are too rooted in what you have been >taught at whatever University. Don't take this as a personal >attack. It is not your fault. On the contrary, it is my fault. Most of what I know I learned outside of university. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 22:29:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA18565; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 22:29:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 22:29:42 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Newton's View on Energy and Power Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 17:29:35 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <3860D45D.A2F@cyberportal.net> <5cf26sg094hsj3qsp8d93bl9m3888nnput@4ax.com> <99122217024903.21572@cougar> <3861801E.76C@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <3861801E.76C@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA18525 Resent-Message-ID: <"FItOo.0.yX4.L5SOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13305 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 22 Dec 1999 20:51:26 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: [snip] >> Yes shock waves are important, but less important than the total energy >> release. Which would you rather be confronted with - a "slow" explosion of a >> gallon of gasoline, or a fire cracker (much faster)? > > >That slow explosion can be amplified million of times. >If that slow explosion is made as fast as the fire cracker >then what do you have? > A very fast gasoline explosion. [snip] >You will never see it with your blinders on. I can add radium to an >explosive and increase its yield by thousands. This is done by simply >adding a few sprinkles of radium chloride. This is what you do not >want people to know. Bruce I would love for it to be true. But I suspect that this is a prediction based on your theory, and not something that you have actually measured. If I'm wrong, by all means present your evidence, and make a fool of me. >There are many more nuts and bolt goodies that >come to light once Pandora's box is opened. [snip] So open the box! Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 22:47:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA24109; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 22:47:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 22:47:00 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 17:46:55 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <000701bf4aab$7350c740$59a270d1@acer> <385E2FA1.6F8B@cyberportal.net> <386023ED.A12F10F6@microtec.net> <386027AD.4BAE@cyberportal.net> <3860CEA8.17F6@cyberportal.net> <002101be4614$ac5b2fe0$a8d666ce@default> <38617C86.21EA@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <38617C86.21EA@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA24075 Resent-Message-ID: <"g8vcA1.0.cu5.ZLSOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13306 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 22 Dec 1999 20:36:06 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: [snip] >It could not been done without some kind of moderator. Without the >moderator >there is no thermal release! You appear to be confusing things here (though it could be that you are only confusing me ;). In reactor-speak, a moderator is a material that slows down the neutrons, so that they are more likely to be captured by the "fuel". Shielding is usually employed to do just what the name says. Shield the environment (and people) from the nuclear process. >You get an intense flash of mostly >Ultraviolet >light! That's why they used to use shielding! I have this from a source >who >was in charge of safety at Hanford! Yes, this UV burns the skin. > >No I am not wrong. Yes, nuclear material has alot of energy stored but >it isn't thermal! To use this stored energy it must be converted. Bruce, none of the above says that the energy comes from the shielding. While shielding would indeed convert UV (and shorter wavelengths) into the longer wavelengths of thermal radiation, it will still only convert as much energy as there is in the UV to start off with. And the energy in the UV is of nuclear origin. > > >Who did you say you work for? I work for myself, and believe it or not, I desperately want you to succeed. That's why I criticise you so harshly. I figure eventually, you will come up with something I can't criticise, and then you will have something really useful. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 22 23:06:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA28491; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 23:06:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 23:06:30 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:06:24 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <000701bf4aab$7350c740$59a270d1@acer> <385E2FA1.6F8B@cyberportal.net> <386023ED.A12F10F6@microtec.net> <386027AD.4BAE@cyberportal.net> <3860CEA8.17F6@cyberportal.net> <3860D18A.6FFA@cyberportal.net> <38617D5B.260E@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <38617D5B.260E@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA28464 Resent-Message-ID: <"_pi152.0.4z6.rdSOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13307 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 22 Dec 1999 20:39:39 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: >Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >> >> The rate is almost irrelevant when the nuclear energy released is millions >> of times greater than the chemical energy. I just did "millions" is a big >> number. > > >You are missing the whole lesson! You are too set in your ways. There wasn't any lesson, just bald statements. [snip] >> An alpha particle striking your skin delivers a greater percussive shock >> than any explosive (for it's size), yet because the total energy delivered >> is so small, you don't even feel it. In fact you don't feel thousands of >> them hitting your skin every second. > > >You have just minimized the effect of nuclear energy. >You have now contradicted yourself. [snip] I haven't minimised the effect of nuclear energy. I simply said that you don't feel 1 or even a few thousand alpha particles on your skin. The penetration depth is also so short, that they get stopped in the outermost layer of dead skin anyway, so are not really all that dangerous externally. (You soon lose that layer of skin in the normal course of events anyway). Internal is a different story. If they are consumed, and especially if they are emitted by a radionuclide that forms part of the body, then they can cause cancer. Reasonable amounts of *energy* are however really only represented by large numbers of alpha particles, e.g. 1 joule would require over a trillion 5 MeV alpha particles. So you don't feel a thousand. To give a feel for this, the warmth of the sun on your hand is about 20 joules / second at midday (depends on the size of your hand) i.e. the equivalent energy of 20 trillion alphas / sec. Now while 20 trillion / sec sounds like a lot, it is still far less than the number of atoms that would need to react chemically to achieve the same result (about 20 million trillion / sec). This reflects the fact that nuclear energy is much more concentrated than chemical energy. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 23 04:23:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA18280; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 04:22:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 04:22:57 -0800 Message-ID: <38621466.6427@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 07:24:06 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eks1@earthlink.net CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Perreault's View on Explosive Power References: <3860D45D.A2F@cyberportal.net> <5cf26sg094hsj3qsp8d93bl9m3888nnput@4ax.com> <99122217024903.21572@cougar> <3861801E.76C@cyberportal.net> <3861ABAF.80F3CDE5@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mxD6U3.0.TT4.WGXOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13308 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Erik, This was done back in 1916 by the U.S. Army! You will lose your bet. Later next year I will be telling people how they can make synthetic radium. How many bets to you plan on taking? :) -Bruce A. Perreault eks1 wrote: > > "Bruce A. Perreault" wrote: > > > > > You will never see it with your blinders on. I can add radium to an > > explosive and increase its yield by thousands. This is done by simply > > adding a few sprinkles of radium chloride. > > Wait..are you saying that mere sprinkling of radioactive material amongst a > conventional explosive, for instance gunpowder, will literally increase it's > yield (= explosive force) by thousands (of times)? > > You're serious? r e a l l y? > > So you're saying that a 3"x1" tube packed with gunpowder and a "few sprinkles" > of radium chloride (I would guess on this scale that could mean as little as is > held > by the radium paint for an old fashioned alarm clock's hands and numerals) can > give the same explosive power as..? A standard 105mm mortar round? > > I don't think so...and I've got ability to test this particular case. All that's > going to > happen is that the large firecracker (3"x1" about what an M80 carries) will blow > the radium chloride (in the radium paint) all over the landscape..net gain in > explosive > power over a similar firecracker without the radium paint will be ZERO! > > (anyone up for a little gentlemen's bet? Say...$500US in crisp, new 20's??) ;) > > > > -Erik From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 23 04:31:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA22318; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 04:31:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 04:31:46 -0800 Message-ID: <3862167A.463C@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 07:32:58 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! References: <000701bf4aab$7350c740$59a270d1@acer> <385E2FA1.6F8B@cyberportal.net> <386023ED.A12F10F6@microtec.net> <386027AD.4BAE@cyberportal.net> <3860CEA8.17F6@cyberportal.net> <002101be4614$ac5b2fe0$a8d666ce@default> <38617C86.21EA@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Aw36k3.0.dS5.oOXOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13309 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > Bruce, none of the above says that the energy comes from the shielding. > While shielding would indeed convert UV (and shorter wavelengths) into the > longer wavelengths of thermal radiation, it will still only convert as much > energy as there is in the UV to start off with. And the energy in the UV is > of nuclear origin. Did I say that there was no energy coming from the nuclear process? I guess my statements stand corrected if you get this impression. My statement is that nuclear energy is not what it appears to be. > > I work for myself, and believe it or not, I desperately want you to succeed. > That's why I criticise you so harshly. I figure eventually, you will come up > with something I can't criticise, and then you will have something really > useful. I know this... you play hard ball, I play hardball. You offer very good feedback. I have no problem with this. It is when someone says that I am a few french fries short of an order of McDonald's French Fries when it is a problem. At least my french fries are not over-cooked. :) Your feedback is always welcome. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 23 04:47:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA25838; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 04:47:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 04:47:07 -0800 Message-ID: <38621A14.4100@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 07:48:20 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: Free Energy List Subject: Re: What about critical mass,,,,,I think that is what caused an,,,,,, References: <000701bf4cec$0398c680$83570418@Gary.ocnsd1.sdca.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xn1nf3.0.dJ6.BdXOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13310 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gary Young wrote: > > explosion very reciently in a nuclear materials processing > plant?,,,,,Gary (:-) Critical mass is still valid it just has not been explained by mainstream science. At least in my mind. There was no thermal explosion at the accident that you are referencing. Lots of radon gas. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 23 07:05:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA19452; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 07:05:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 07:05:05 -0800 Message-ID: <38623A68.1D2B@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 10:06:16 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be!] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"qpcIR.0.rl4.XeZOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13311 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Message-ID: <38623A18.1522@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 10:04:56 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris O'Barr Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! References: <000701bf4aab$7350c740$59a270d1@acer> <385E2FA1.6F8B@cyberportal.net> <386023ED.A12F10F6@microtec.net> <386027AD.4BAE@cyberportal.net> <3860CEA8.17F6@cyberportal.net> <002101be4614$ac5b2fe0$a8d666ce@default> <38617C86.21EA@cyberportal.net> <3862167A.463C@cyberportal.net> <003101be46d8$b8428500$86d666ce@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris O'Barr wrote: > > I said a few french fries short of a happy meal, get it right... In > case you were sicerely offended by my statment, I want you to know I respect > you...my statment *is* true though. :) No... I was not sincerely offended by your statement. I'm the first to admit that a few screws have been knocked loose. I chock it up as battle wounds. If I were normal then I would not question the established guidelines. I prefer to be the master of my own ship. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 23 07:06:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA20033; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 07:06:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 07:06:09 -0800 Message-ID: <38623AA8.32E0@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 10:07:20 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be!] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"51Pxm3.0.su4.XfZOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13312 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mercury.peganet.net (root@peganet.com [206.102.200.11]) by mail1.fcgnetworks.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA25251 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:09:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (peg29-ts124.peganet.com [206.102.214.134]) by mercury.peganet.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA13953 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:09:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003801be46d9$f15e76e0$86d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <000701bf4aab$7350c740$59a270d1@acer> <385E2FA1.6F8B@cyberportal.net> <386023ED.A12F10F6@microtec.net> <386027AD.4BAE@cyberportal.net> <3860CEA8.17F6@cyberportal.net> <002101be4614$ac5b2fe0$a8d666ce@default> <38617C86.21EA@cyberportal.net> <3862167A.463C@cyberportal.net> Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 09:09:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 I suggest that everyone wait until July, then you can evaluate the situation with all information disclosed to you. After that you can make your final desiscion as to whether or not BAP is right. C'mon, doesn't anyone have a new idea, has anyone been working on something interesting (other than BAP). I have a question as well, has anyone here built a practical hydrogen fuel cell. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce A. Perreault To: Cc: ; Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 7:32 AM Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! > Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > > > Bruce, none of the above says that the energy comes from the shielding. > > While shielding would indeed convert UV (and shorter wavelengths) into the > > longer wavelengths of thermal radiation, it will still only convert as much > > energy as there is in the UV to start off with. And the energy in the UV is > > of nuclear origin. > > > Did I say that there was no energy coming from the nuclear process? > I guess my statements stand corrected if you get this impression. > My statement is that nuclear energy is not what it appears to be. > > > > > > I work for myself, and believe it or not, I desperately want you to succeed. > > That's why I criticise you so harshly. I figure eventually, you will come up > > with something I can't criticise, and then you will have something really > > useful. > > > I know this... you play hard ball, I play hardball. > You offer very good feedback. I have no problem with this. > It is when someone says that I am a few french fries short > of an order of McDonald's French Fries when it is a problem. > At least my french fries are not over-cooked. :) > > Your feedback is always welcome. > > > -Bruce A. Perreault > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 23 07:50:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA31644; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 07:50:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 07:50:24 -0800 Message-ID: <003b01bf4d5d$699f2d40$56e135ca@xplornote> From: "xplorer" To: Subject: electricity from a magnet ! Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 22:39:14 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"70Ig83.0.Kk7.0JaOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13313 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This just happened in my workshop [date 960.183] : I attached an earth ground to a bridge rectifier input, the other input to BillB's energy antenna, as I was trying to replicate his ideas on regenerative power capture. I was receiving very little power in this manner, so I decided to try a few variations. I decided I needed more metal mass in the antenna, so I sought out one of my old samples of aluminium plate. It is a small piece (10 cm square, 5mm thick) of an alloy made for marine boats (Cd/AL, If memory serves...) Clip leads from the bridge couldn't fasten onto the plate (too thick), so I cheated. I got a pair of magnets (Neodymium, I think - they appear to be from dead disk drive - picked them up in Singapore) and placed one each side of the plate and hooked the clip lead to one magnet. I was pulling enough power to light a green LED (1.5v fwd drop) The clip leads are ferric, the magnets are chrome plated. go figure. This magnet is acting as an antenna, no capacitive or inductive elements aside from the 4 m. of wire going to ground. My dinky little digital meter showed 7 volts (DC) out of the bridge. The amps section doesn't work very well, but the LED handles about 10 mA. Although it didn't hit it's peak, it appeared to be about 1 mA worth. I was preparing to slap a resistor on and calc the current, because my scope was inoperative when wife comes in and says shut it down for the night, so I can't do more than speculate what I just saw... ingredients: bridge rectifier led magnet decent earth ground (we might be able to cheat here, I reckon) replicate, please I repeatedly disassembled this and put it back together, so I know it is not just some funky loose(/tight) connection. I live in Cirebon, Indonesia - this is a small city and there are no massive EM broadcast radiations, nor is there much electrical grid here (although a lot of the current probably makes a return through the soil as local wiring installations are historically 'leaky') My theory is that the magnet is, as an antenna, capturing free ions that a normal antenna couldn't grab. In other words, if you want free energy from the sky, just build an array of magnets run to ground through rectifiers (or possibly transformers ... next test) cheers Paul Anderson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 23 08:46:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA17609; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 08:46:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 08:46:00 -0800 Message-ID: <386251C5.88711265@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 08:45:57 -0800 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! References: <000701bf4aab$7350c740$59a270d1@acer> <385E2FA1.6F8B@cyberportal.net> <386023ED.A12F10F6@microtec.net> <386027AD.4BAE@cyberportal.net> <3860CEA8.17F6@cyberportal.net> <002101be4614$ac5b2fe0$a8d666ce@default> <38617C86.21EA@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jyVyR.0.-I4.87bOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13314 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > I work for myself, and believe it or not, I desperately want you to succeed. > That's why I criticise you so harshly. I figure eventually, you will come up > with something I can't criticise, and then you will have something really > useful. Well said Robin! I feel the same, and that's why I keep nudging Bruce to go ahead and release the design of his working Radiant Energy Receiver - I'm prepared to put it into production immediately, and pay him a 10% royality on EVERY UNIT! -Erik From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 23 09:00:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA24061; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:00:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:00:15 -0800 Message-ID: <3862551C.13FAD3B9@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:00:12 -0800 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-L@eskimo.com" Subject: rumors about the recent japanese accident Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LF7LD3.0.st5.VKbOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13315 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I heard this from the Office Clown...who is actually a temp and does stand-up at local clubs in SoCal: "..the rumors are flying about the actual cause of the accident at a japanese nuclear fuel reprocessing facility..according to some, the security camera tapes clearly show the plant workers off in a corner..trading Pokemon cards when the reaction got out of control!" "Other insiders claim that these tapes actually show that the process was working just fine..until Pikachu fell into the vat..according to one scientist the extra electric charge from the hapless Pokemon seemed to accelerate the reaction." Yeah..I can see that happening...;) Cheers! -Erik From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 23 09:38:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA04842; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:38:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:38:50 -0800 Message-ID: <38625E72.9FE@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 12:40:02 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: electricity from a magnet ! References: <003b01bf4d5d$699f2d40$56e135ca@xplornote> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-5Bwl1.0.XB1.gubOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13316 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Xxplorer, Neodymium has a natural radio isotope present. http://www.nuenergy.org/images/gif/rad_ant.gif -Bruce A. Perreault xplorer wrote: > > This just happened in my workshop [date 960.183] : > > I attached an earth ground to a bridge rectifier input, > the other input to BillB's energy antenna, as I was trying to > replicate his ideas on regenerative power capture. > I was receiving very little power in this manner, > so I decided to try a few variations. > > I decided I needed more metal mass in the antenna, > so I sought out one of my old samples of aluminium plate. > It is a small piece (10 cm square, 5mm thick) of an > alloy made for marine boats (Cd/AL, If memory serves...) > > Clip leads from the bridge couldn't fasten onto the plate (too thick), > so I cheated. I got a pair of magnets (Neodymium, I think - they appear > to be from dead disk drive - picked them up in Singapore) and > placed one each side of the plate and hooked the clip lead to one magnet. > I was pulling enough power to light a green LED (1.5v fwd drop) > > The clip leads are ferric, the magnets are chrome plated. > > go figure. > > This magnet is acting as an antenna, no capacitive or inductive elements > aside from the 4 m. of wire going to ground. > My dinky little digital meter showed 7 volts (DC) out of the bridge. > The amps section doesn't work very well, but the LED handles about 10 mA. > Although it didn't hit it's peak, it appeared to be about 1 mA worth. > I was preparing to slap a resistor on and calc the current, because > my scope was inoperative when wife comes in and says shut it down > for the night, so I can't do more than speculate what I just saw... > > ingredients: > bridge rectifier > led > magnet > decent earth ground (we might be able to cheat here, I reckon) > > replicate, please > I repeatedly disassembled this and put it back together, > so I know it is not just some funky loose(/tight) connection. > > I live in Cirebon, Indonesia - this is a small city > and there are no massive EM broadcast radiations, nor is there > much electrical grid here (although a lot of the current probably > makes a return through the soil as local wiring installations > are historically 'leaky') > > My theory is that the magnet is, as an antenna, capturing free ions > that a normal antenna couldn't grab. > In other words, if you want free energy from the sky, just build an array > of magnets run to ground through rectifiers > (or possibly transformers ... next test) > > cheers > Paul Anderson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 23 12:16:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA01981; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 12:16:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 12:16:30 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be!] Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 07:16:22 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <38623AA8.32E0@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <38623AA8.32E0@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id MAA01951 Resent-Message-ID: <"oAfIm1.0.sU.TCeOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13317 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 23 Dec 1999 10:07:20 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > I suggest that everyone wait until July, then you can evaluate the >situation with all information disclosed to you. After that you can make I was hoping to ferret something out before then, for three reasons. 1) I won't be able to attend the conference anyway. 2) It would prepare people for what they get to see at the conference. Then they know what to expect, and what instruments to take with them. 3) If we pull it apart before then, it will also give Bruce a chance to come up with something else ;). [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 23 12:40:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA10098; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 12:40:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 12:40:31 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991223154201.00e417d0@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 15:42:01 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Colin Quinney Subject: Re: electricity from a magnet ! In-Reply-To: <003b01bf4d5d$699f2d40$56e135ca@xplornote> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"daI1q2.0.YT2._YeOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13318 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Paul, Was the aluminum anodized? Colin Quinney At 10:39 PM 12/23/99 +0700, Paul wrote: >This just happened in my workshop [date 960.183] : > >I attached an earth ground to a bridge rectifier input, >the other input to BillB's energy antenna, as I was trying to > replicate his ideas on regenerative power capture. >I was receiving very little power in this manner, > so I decided to try a few variations. > >I decided I needed more metal mass in the antenna, > so I sought out one of my old samples of aluminium plate. >It is a small piece (10 cm square, 5mm thick) of an >alloy made for marine boats (Cd/AL, If memory serves...) > >Clip leads from the bridge couldn't fasten onto the plate (too thick), >so I cheated. I got a pair of magnets (Neodymium, I think - they appear >to be from dead disk drive - picked them up in Singapore) and >placed one each side of the plate and hooked the clip lead to one magnet. >I was pulling enough power to light a green LED (1.5v fwd drop) > >The clip leads are ferric, the magnets are chrome plated. > >go figure. > >This magnet is acting as an antenna, no capacitive or inductive elements >aside from the 4 m. of wire going to ground. >My dinky little digital meter showed 7 volts (DC) out of the bridge. >The amps section doesn't work very well, but the LED handles about 10 mA. >Although it didn't hit it's peak, it appeared to be about 1 mA worth. >I was preparing to slap a resistor on and calc the current, because >my scope was inoperative when wife comes in and says shut it down >for the night, so I can't do more than speculate what I just saw... > >ingredients: >bridge rectifier >led >magnet >decent earth ground (we might be able to cheat here, I reckon) > >replicate, please >I repeatedly disassembled this and put it back together, > so I know it is not just some funky loose(/tight) connection. > >I live in Cirebon, Indonesia - this is a small city >and there are no massive EM broadcast radiations, nor is there > much electrical grid here (although a lot of the current probably > makes a return through the soil as local wiring installations >are historically 'leaky') > >My theory is that the magnet is, as an antenna, capturing free ions > that a normal antenna couldn't grab. >In other words, if you want free energy from the sky, just build an array > of magnets run to ground through rectifiers >(or possibly transformers ... next test) > >cheers >Paul Anderson > > > > > > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 23 14:50:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA25741; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 14:49:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 14:49:56 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 12:49:29 -1000 Subject: Re: electricity from a magnet ! From: Rick Monteverde To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <003b01bf4d5d$699f2d40$56e135ca@xplornote> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-T_B93.0.6I6.JSgOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13319 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I live in Honolulu, and the underground utility lines near my house are leaky. The fluorescent lights in my garage are dimly lit all the time by the ground leakage. It has to be totally dark, but I can see the flickering dim glow. I know it's the leak because they came out and dug up the sidewalk and fixed it when it got so bad we were getting brownouts, and the dim flickering immediately stopped. That lasted for a few weeks, but now apparently a nearby section is corroded through and it's started again. You might want to take your gear out away from dwellings and power sources and try again. A house next door (or your own) with a leak to ground could be causing it. I thought all along it the leak I had was inside my house somewhere before I finally checked the mains at the utility side during the brownouts and found out it was their fault, not mine. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI on 12/23/99 5:39 AM, xplorer at xplorer@crb.elga.net.id wrote: > I live in Cirebon, Indonesia - this is a small city > and there are no massive EM broadcast radiations, nor is there > much electrical grid here (although a lot of the current probably > makes a return through the soil as local wiring installations > are historically 'leaky') From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 23 16:47:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA30169; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 16:46:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 16:46:54 -0800 Message-ID: <01f501bf4da8$ce6da580$ccb47ed8@mrand> From: "mrand" To: Subject: Re: Atomic Energy is not what it appears to be! Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 16:49:58 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"NT4ha2.0.IN7.-9iOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13320 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Erik, Sounds like a good proposal to me. Did Bruce explain why the delay until July? I did not see the e-mail on this. Regards, Michael Randall Erik wrote: >Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > >> I work for myself, and believe it or not, I desperately want you to succeed. >> That's why I criticise you so harshly. I figure eventually, you will come up >> with something I can't criticise, and then you will have something really >> useful. > > Well said Robin! I feel the same, and that's why I keep nudging Bruce to go >ahead and release the design of his working Radiant Energy Receiver - I'm >prepared to put it into production immediately, and pay him a 10% royality >on EVERY UNIT! > > -Erik > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 23 21:45:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA05155; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 21:45:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 21:45:03 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991224004640.016be870@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 00:46:40 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Colin Quinney Subject: Re: electricity from a magnet ! In-Reply-To: <003b01bf4d5d$699f2d40$56e135ca@xplornote> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"2CpNa2.0.SG1.VXmOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13321 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Paul, Can you describe in more detail the set up? I am having some difficulty in visualizing how the Bridge rectifier is set up to the ground, the magnet antenna wire, and to Bill Beaty's energy antenna or his regenerative circuits. Were you employing a regenerative circuit in the vicinity? How did you use Bill's antenna design in this? How was the LED wired into the circuit? What points were you taking the measurements? What are the LED specs? Is it possible to put up a schematic? Did you scope the incoming voltage? Thanks. Colin Quinney At 10:39 PM 12/23/99 +0700, you wrote: >This just happened in my workshop [date 960.183] : > >I attached an earth ground to a bridge rectifier input, >the other input to BillB's energy antenna, as I was trying to > replicate his ideas on regenerative power capture. >I was receiving very little power in this manner, > so I decided to try a few variations. > >I decided I needed more metal mass in the antenna, > so I sought out one of my old samples of aluminium plate. >It is a small piece (10 cm square, 5mm thick) of an >alloy made for marine boats (Cd/AL, If memory serves...) > >Clip leads from the bridge couldn't fasten onto the plate (too thick), >so I cheated. I got a pair of magnets (Neodymium, I think - they appear >to be from dead disk drive - picked them up in Singapore) and >placed one each side of the plate and hooked the clip lead to one magnet. >I was pulling enough power to light a green LED (1.5v fwd drop) > >The clip leads are ferric, the magnets are chrome plated. > >go figure. > >This magnet is acting as an antenna, no capacitive or inductive elements >aside from the 4 m. of wire going to ground. >My dinky little digital meter showed 7 volts (DC) out of the bridge. >The amps section doesn't work very well, but the LED handles about 10 mA. >Although it didn't hit it's peak, it appeared to be about 1 mA worth. >I was preparing to slap a resistor on and calc the current, because >my scope was inoperative when wife comes in and says shut it down >for the night, so I can't do more than speculate what I just saw... > >ingredients: >bridge rectifier >led >magnet >decent earth ground (we might be able to cheat here, I reckon) > >replicate, please >I repeatedly disassembled this and put it back together, > so I know it is not just some funky loose(/tight) connection. > >I live in Cirebon, Indonesia - this is a small city >and there are no massive EM broadcast radiations, nor is there > much electrical grid here (although a lot of the current probably > makes a return through the soil as local wiring installations >are historically 'leaky') > >My theory is that the magnet is, as an antenna, capturing free ions > that a normal antenna couldn't grab. >In other words, if you want free energy from the sky, just build an array > of magnets run to ground through rectifiers >(or possibly transformers ... next test) > >cheers >Paul Anderson > > > > > > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 24 00:30:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA08423; Fri, 24 Dec 1999 00:30:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 00:30:45 -0800 Message-ID: <185667.946024144986.JavaMail.imail@bronty> Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 00:29:04 -0800 (PST) From: Harvey D Norris Reply-To: To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Design for a Time Machine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 199.174.176.187 Resent-Message-ID: <"LbFWO1.0.R32.qyoOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13322 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi all; This time paradox thing and quantum mechanics has me going a bit buggy. I have made oscilloscope readings of high frequency electric field from an inductive sensor to channel 1 on a scope, and then taken a rectification through a high frequency diode system to channel 2. Each event can be viewed separately, but when the channels 1 and 2 are viewed in dual modes they show different information! This is my investigation of the illusive scalar electric field which I have now documented on VHS tape. These volumes are growing quickly as I am now on volume 4. Today in the filming the digital clock was jokingly placed closer to the metal part of the plastic clipboard holder , that serves as the insulator atop the scalar electric field plate. This clock has been in the scalar field for hours of testing with no ill effects. Getting a closer connection metallically the clock began skipping to apparently higher times in the couple of hours range. I then moved the clock slightly back on the insulated plate, and it seemed to run through a very quick 5 minutes for what seemed to me to be about 2. This is all a joke because the clock is unsuitable for a time dilation test, a mechanical and not solid state would be needed. What happens is the scope records two simultaneous opposite polarity signals coming from the inductor. This inductor recieves signals polarized in all three dimensions of space above the plate. On channel 1 the scope shows the cancelled 180 waveform of a high frequency decay at the 20 microsecond sweep rate. Channel 2 shows the rectified signal which shows also as a double 180 rectified signal, without the suspected cancellation. The problem with that observation is that the previous statement doesnt always appear to be true, due to the many variations the arc gap can supply. There is also the issue of casuality. In making our assumption that the rectifier system NEEDS to have an input from the inductor sensor we then attach parallel connections from the channel 1 output to the diode system input. The output of the diode system is then connected to channel 2. When that is done the cancelled forms can be seen on either channel: that information tells us of two opposite polarity signals in the the same time period. When we try to view both events simultaneously on the dual channel setting what we see is only one polarity occuring at ANY specific time instant, so in our relative observation the appearance on the scope becomes two forms, shifting left and right in phase shifting, each signal alternating an on/off blink in time. Now that sounds like an example of Heisenbergs Uncertainty Principle, how the same event can give two interpretations by the method we view it. Fantastically enough the next stage of experimentation taken today shows that this whole experiment probably consists of the Einstein- Podolsky-Rosen effect. (EPR) This is shown on the video where when the parallel connections from the inductor sensor are removed from the diode system, and instead of the channel 2 sensor recording its ordinary background signal of near zero(relative) potential it showed an amplification of the cancelled rectified signal! These signals cross close to the x axis and re- emerge in opposite polarities. When these events are viewed in dual setting the voltage levels of the rectified signal are clearly larger and exist long after the high frequency ring down. What of course becomes rediculously apparent to me is the question, how did those signals get there? The diode system is now connected to nothing but channel 2. Did the electrons in channel 1 use the scope as a EPR effect to produce the signals on channel 2? That seems acceptable to me. So to try and increase my understanding of things I noticed the following URL posted on Keelynet Design for a Time Machine http://www.undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca/~roconnor/time.html The device is a Michelson interferometer with one of the mirrors replaced by a phase conjugate mirror (PCM). The PCM reflects circularly polarised light back while maintaining the same direction of polarisation. The regular mirror will reflects circular polarised light and reverses the direction of polarisation. For example, a left-handed polarised light will be reflected as right-handed polarised light. So when circularly polarised light recombines at the detector D2, the polarisation of the two beams will be orthogonal to each other and produce no interference effect. When linearly polarised light will recombines, the two beams will be polarised in the same direction and an interference pattern will be seen. In light of those comments I wonder if anyone could say something concerning these phase conjugate mirrors. Are they a special mirror you can buy? I have noticed that reflected metal halide lights can combine in inference patters. Wasnt that phase conjugation in optics the kind where they dicovered that the reflection can actually use its original wave as a reflection? This implies some kind of time travel stuff. HDN : Binary Resonant System http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 _______________________________________________________ Visit Excite Shopping at http://shopping.excite.com The fastest way to find your Holiday gift this season From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 24 09:51:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA03662; Fri, 24 Dec 1999 09:51:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 09:51:08 -0800 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991224125021.00abd7a0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: rymel@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 12:51:12 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rymel Subject: Merry Christmas All In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991224004640.016be870@inforamp.net> References: <003b01bf4d5d$699f2d40$56e135ca@xplornote> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"yltky.0.7v.BAxOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13323 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Just like say Merry Christmas everyone, and a Happy New Year. Can't wait to see what the new millenium will bring :] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 24 12:13:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA16088; Fri, 24 Dec 1999 12:13:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 12:13:21 -0800 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.2 on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <185667.946024144986.JavaMail.imail@bronty> Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 12:15:41 -0800 (PST) Sender: jim@eskimo.com From: Jim Richardson To: Harvey D Norris Subject: RE: Design for a Time Machine Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"vVBu-2.0.Dx3.WFzOu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13324 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 24-Dec-1999 Harvey D Norris wrote: > Hi all; > This time paradox thing and quantum mechanics has me going a bit > buggy. I have made oscilloscope readings of high frequency electric > field from an inductive sensor to channel 1 on a scope, and then taken > a rectification through a high frequency diode system to channel 2. > Each event can be viewed separately, but when the channels 1 and 2 > are viewed in dual modes they show different information! This is my > investigation of the illusive scalar electric field which I have now > documented on VHS tape. These volumes are growing quickly as I > am now on volume 4. Today in the filming the digital clock was > jokingly placed closer to the metal part of the plastic clipboard holder When you are looking at high freq signals with an o'scope, you are going to see a lot of interactions between the probes. Esp as the rise times get into the ns. Using 2 seperate scopes can help. As can a GHz probe (see http://emcesd.com for some neat designs on cheap hi freq passive probes.) Jim Richardson Anarchist, pagan and proud of it WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 24 16:58:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA29968; Fri, 24 Dec 1999 16:58:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 16:58:15 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <0.bbefc122.2595709f@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 19:58:07 EST Subject: To those on list who celebrate Christmas To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Resent-Message-ID: <"gGBiR3.0.9K7.dQ1Pu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13325 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Merry Christmas from the LaFonte family From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 24 17:30:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA05327; Fri, 24 Dec 1999 17:30:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 17:30:42 -0800 From: MATTIARO@aol.com Message-ID: <0.ba0145ca.2595783c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 20:30:36 EST Subject: Re: To those on list who celebrate Christmas To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"Fvuif1.0.8J1.2v1Pu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13326 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Merry christmas from the Aro family. Also Happy New year, Happy new century, Happy new millenium. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 25 00:19:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA28922; Sat, 25 Dec 1999 00:19:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 00:19:34 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <0.dbaf5fd.2595d80c@aol.com> Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 03:19:24 EST Subject: Merry Christmas to all of you To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 30 Resent-Message-ID: <"IEc_d2.0.p37.Lu7Pu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13327 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Merry Christmas to all of you, and may this end of the Millenium bring the Peace for all the Planet. Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 25 01:37:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA03966; Sat, 25 Dec 1999 01:37:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 01:37:19 -0800 Message-ID: <00d001bf4ebb$73aafda0$96d2989e@callaghansystems.demon.co.uk> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Electrolysis of Water; Experiment #1 ad nauseam Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 09:01:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"hFuGr1.0.pz.F19Pu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13328 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi all I think that electrolysis with Sodium Chloride would produce Sodium Hypochlorite rather than Sodium Hydroxide. -----Original Message----- From: tgrimes1@juno.com > As far as the "deadly chlorine gas" is concerned, just be careful. I >have not observed chlorine gas to be generated, at least not to any >appreciable extent, unless the ions are restricted in their flow, as by a >semipermeable barrier (of asbestos, for example). When this happens, >chlorine gas and elemental sodium, which very rapidly reacts with the >water to form sodium hydroxide and molecular hydrogen, are formed. The >chlorine gas is heavier than air, and is produced in such small >quantities (in experiments not involving extremely rapid electrolysis) >that it is a simple matter to ventilate the area of the gas. Be >forewarned, however, that chlorine can (I've heard) cause a certain type >of pneumonia that is incurable. At very least, it is extremely >irritating to the lungs and mucous membranes. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 25 01:37:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA03980; Sat, 25 Dec 1999 01:37:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 01:37:20 -0800 Message-ID: <00d101bf4ebb$745a7780$96d2989e@callaghansystems.demon.co.uk> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re BAP's Power Increasing With Smaller Output Duration Errors Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 09:32:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"eP3SF.0.4-.G19Pu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13329 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi BAP and All Releasing energy over a smaller duration does not increase the power. If you have an energy source that supplies 100 Watts over a 10 second interval, the total power is 100 * 10 = 1000 Watt Seconds. If the same energy source supplies 1,000,000,000,000 Watts over a 0.000000001 second interval, the total power is 1000000000000 * 0.000000001 = 1000 Watt Seconds. Best regards David Callaghan -----Original Message----- From: Bruce A. Perreault >released. "Power is defined in classical mechanics as the amount of >work done in a certain interval of time." Like a high-voltage >capacititor releases a "little" energy in a VERY compressed time >frame. This means the little ENERGY has more POWER. Energy and power >are not equal, time must be factored. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 25 03:59:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA16469; Sat, 25 Dec 1999 03:58:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 03:58:58 -0800 Message-ID: <000a01bf4ecf$6cc35280$5de135ca@xplornote> From: "xplorer" To: Subject: Re: electricity from a magnet ! Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 18:55:08 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"MyagH2.0.E14.16BPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13330 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com turns out a electrical wire (live, 220vac) was shorted by humidity to a concrete reinforcing rod in the wall under the lab near where the ground wire had to go. Looked and looked for why I was getting ac hum, when I quit looking I leaned up against the wall and got a jolt of ac through my backside. Oh well, so much for the tale of the whopper magnet antenna ! cheers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 25 05:03:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA23874; Sat, 25 Dec 1999 05:03:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 05:03:47 -0800 Message-ID: <3864C0EC.552F@cyberportal.net> Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 08:04:55 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: Re BAP's Power Increasing With Smaller Output Duration Errors References: <00d101bf4ebb$745a7780$96d2989e@callaghansystems.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Vof_L.0.wq5.p2CPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13331 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com David, If you have been paying attention this was stated from the very begining. "In this example the illusion is given that more energy has been released." There was more but I removed from the site because I did not want to confuse people. However, have you ever exploded a wire with the energy stored in a capacitor? It is christmas morning here so I'll end here. Have a Merry X-MASS all! David Callaghan wrote: > > Hi BAP and All > > Releasing energy over a smaller duration does not increase the power. > > If you have an energy source that supplies 100 Watts over a 10 second > interval, > the total power is 100 * 10 = 1000 Watt Seconds. > > If the same energy source supplies 1,000,000,000,000 Watts over a > 0.000000001 second interval, > the total power is 1000000000000 * 0.000000001 = 1000 Watt Seconds. > > Best regards > > David Callaghan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce A. Perreault > >released. "Power is defined in classical mechanics as the amount of > >work done in a certain interval of time." Like a high-voltage > >capacititor releases a "little" energy in a VERY compressed time > >frame. This means the little ENERGY has more POWER. Energy and power > >are not equal, time must be factored. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 25 05:06:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA25571; Sat, 25 Dec 1999 05:06:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 05:06:28 -0800 Message-ID: <3864C19B.6F5@cyberportal.net> Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 08:07:39 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: electricity from a magnet ! References: <000a01bf4ecf$6cc35280$5de135ca@xplornote> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GcjCt3.0.NF6.J5CPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13332 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Xplorer, Radioactive material placed near the ant. will work without you a.c leakage. :) -BAP xplorer wrote: > > turns out a electrical wire (live, 220vac) > was shorted by humidity to a concrete reinforcing rod > in the wall under the lab near where the ground wire > had to go. > Looked and looked for why I was getting ac hum, > when I quit looking I leaned up against the wall > and got a jolt of ac through my backside. > > Oh well, so much for the tale of the whopper magnet antenna ! > > cheers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 25 12:25:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA23512; Sat, 25 Dec 1999 12:25:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 12:25:33 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 10:25:27 -1000 Subject: Re: electricity from a magnet ! From: Rick Monteverde To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000a01bf4ecf$6cc35280$5de135ca@xplornote> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LkcAR1.0.Hl5.zWIPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13333 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Good detective work. Using one's backside as a fault detector - hadn't thought of that! ;) on 12/25/99 1:55 AM, xplorer at xplorer@crb.elga.net.id wrote: > turns out a electrical wire (live, 220vac) > was shorted by humidity to a concrete reinforcing rod > in the wall under the lab near where the ground wire > had to go. > Looked and looked for why I was getting ac hum, > when I quit looking I leaned up against the wall > and got a jolt of ac through my backside. > > Oh well, so much for the tale of the whopper magnet antenna ! > > cheers > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 25 12:32:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA26202; Sat, 25 Dec 1999 12:32:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 12:32:24 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: electricity from a magnet ! Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 07:32:19 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <4daa6ssor1hac6of45ja56dkedl1sv7n7j@4ax.com> References: <000a01bf4ecf$6cc35280$5de135ca@xplornote> In-Reply-To: <000a01bf4ecf$6cc35280$5de135ca@xplornote> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id MAA26173 Resent-Message-ID: <"Rr7Uj3.0.EP6.NdIPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13334 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 25 Dec 1999 18:55:08 +0700, xplorer wrote: >turns out a electrical wire (live, 220vac) > was shorted by humidity to a concrete reinforcing rod > in the wall under the lab near where the ground wire > had to go. >Looked and looked for why I was getting ac hum, > when I quit looking I leaned up against the wall > and got a jolt of ac through my backside. > >Oh well, so much for the tale of the whopper magnet antenna ! Just goes to show, not all bum steers point you in the wrong direction ;). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 25 14:47:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA19558; Sat, 25 Dec 1999 14:47:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 14:47:11 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrolysis of Water; Experiment #1 ad nauseam Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 09:47:05 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <00d001bf4ebb$73aafda0$96d2989e@callaghansystems.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <00d001bf4ebb$73aafda0$96d2989e@callaghansystems.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA19541 Resent-Message-ID: <"fIIbA2.0.Vn4.lbKPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13335 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 25 Dec 1999 09:01:59 -0000, David Callaghan wrote: >Hi all > >I think that electrolysis with Sodium Chloride would produce Sodium >Hypochlorite rather than >Sodium Hydroxide. I think it actually produces quite a mixture of things, with varying levels of oxidation of the chlorine atom. The balance between them varying from case to case depending on the exact circumstances (temperature, concentration, voltage, current etc.). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 25 20:32:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA14548; Sat, 25 Dec 1999 20:32:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 20:32:38 -0800 Message-ID: <38659AB3.2212@cyberportal.net> Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 23:33:55 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Another Attempt to Clarification Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7sc1c2.0.DZ3.bfPPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13336 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com U-235 and Radium are catalysts that speed up chemical reactions. For example; one ton of T.N.T. can be made to give up its' energy in a shorter span of time. Making a hiroshima type explosion. In this example the illusion is given that more energy has been released. "Power is defined in classical mechanics as the amount of  work done in a certain interval of time." Like when a high-voltage capacitor releases all of its energy in a VERY compressed time frame. This means that ENERGY can be amplified to give more FORCE in a short interval of time, as compared to the FORCE released over a longer interval. We are not getting more energy out than before. However, a higher instant POWER is made available. This can give the illusion that more POWER has been created. Newton's equation: M X A = F meaning: Mass times Acceleration equals the total Force expended. For the sake of argument the amount of TNT is the MASS. The rapid nanosecond delivery of the explosion will be the ACCELERATION. This very quick acceleration makes up for the little mass and creates a huge shock wave with lots of FORCE. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 00:17:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA09047; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 00:15:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 00:15:50 -0800 From: =?iso-8859-2?Q?Bo=B9tjan_Golob?= To: Subject: RE: Another Attempt to Clarification Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 09:13:37 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Thread-Topic: RE: Another Attempt to Clarification Thread-Index: Ab9PeVV0w1uQbbtyEdOZ6gAA6JWlJg== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA09021 Resent-Message-ID: <"ujPN92.0.GD2.swSPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13337 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > U-235 and Radium are catalysts that speed up chemical reactions. > For example; one ton of T.N.T. can be made to give up its' > energy in a shorter span of time. Making a hiroshima type > explosion. In this example the illusion is given that more > energy has been released. "Power is defined in classical > mechanics as the amount of work done in a certain interval > of time." Like when a high-voltage capacitor releases all of its > energy in a VERY compressed time frame. This means that ENERGY > can be amplified to give more FORCE in a short interval of time, > as compared to the FORCE released over a longer interval. We are > not getting more energy out than before. However, a higher instant > POWER is made available. This can give the illusion that more POWER > has been created. This might be getting somewhere, but this still doesn't satisfy me fully. 1.) Catalysts are defined as substances which lower the activation energy of a compound and they DO NOT CHANGE in the process. Nuclear fission changes the original nucleon and therefore nuclear materials cannot be classified as catalysts. 2.) The TNT debate: although both reactions (nuclear and conventional) do release same amounts of energy, when the time is shorter, the buildings (or whatever) cannot remove all the excess energy until the buildup is too large. The same thing when you explode wires with a capacitor. 3.) This still doesn't say anything how atomic energy is different from what I thought previously. I may be wrong somewhere as I am only in 10th grade =) Bostjan Golob ------- Bostjan Golob, MCSE Student, Gimnazija Bezigrad LJubljana, SlovenIa bostjang@atena.kanal8.si From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 05:15:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA31410; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 05:15:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 05:15:02 -0800 Message-ID: <3866144A.2620@cyberportal.net> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 08:12:42 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lgmnR1.0.cg7.MJXPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13338 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com =?iso-8859-2?Q?Bo=B9tjan_Golob?= wrote: > <> > > This might be getting somewhere, but this still doesn't satisfy me > fully. > > 1.) Catalysts are defined as substances which lower the activation > energy of a compound and they DO NOT CHANGE in the process. Nuclear > fission changes the original nucleon and therefore nuclear materials > cannot be classified as catalysts. The nuclear products are a catalyst to the TNT. However, you are right too, it is not a true catalyst. Yes, it is a chemical catalyst. No, it is not a ultra-chemical (nuclear) catalyst. > > 2.) The TNT debate: although both reactions (nuclear and conventional) > do release same amounts of energy, when the time is shorter, the > buildings (or whatever) cannot remove all the excess energy until the > buildup is too large. The same thing when you explode wires with a > capacitor. I do not understand what you are saying here. > > 3.) This still doesn't say anything how atomic energy is different from > what I thought previously. I agree... this is the other half that I am holding back until July 2000. This is what is getting me into trouble. ;) > > I may be wrong somewhere as I am only in 10th grade =) You are very bright for a 10th grader. Don't lose the sparkle. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 05:20:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA01770; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 05:20:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 05:20:58 -0800 Message-ID: <386615F0.5F07@cyberportal.net> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 08:19:44 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Let us not over-look something Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Xow_H2.0.ZR.uOXPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13339 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com T.N.T. is a moderator in our example. Did anyone stop to think that it is made out of Carbon and hydrogen? Two moderator materials! What does this do for the reaction? -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 05:22:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA02925; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 05:22:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 05:22:42 -0800 Message-ID: <386616E9.5701@cyberportal.net> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 08:23:53 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: Let us not over-look something References: <386615F0.5F07@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"V_7Gw.0.cj.XQXPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13340 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Excuse me, three moderator materials. The third being the Nitrogen. -BAP Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > > T.N.T. is a moderator in our example. Did anyone stop to think > that it is made out of Carbon and hydrogen? Two moderator materials! > What does this do for the reaction? > > -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 06:35:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA12114; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 06:35:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 06:35:19 -0800 Message-ID: <38662728.59DD@cyberportal.net> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 09:33:12 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Q: Why Am I Talking About Nuke Bombs? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"t_CEe3.0.Bz2.cUYPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13341 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com A: Because you must understand how nukes work before you can understand the radiant energy receiver. The power of the Moray detector was in the "fission material" that it contained. Instead of generating excess neutrons and heat it generated radio noise. An internal diode rectified this r.f. and charged a high-voltage capacitor. The capacitor was slowly dumped into a high-frequeny tank circuit with special oscillator tubes. This high-frequency, high-voltage is then stepped down to a usuable voltage to power loads. This principle will be publically tested at the July Exotic Research Conference next Year. Video tapes will be made available through my website for those who can not attend. This conversion device will not contain radioactive material. However, the test condition that Nikola Tesla presented in his radiant energy patent will be used. Star-mode electrodes can be used to slowly discharge the capacitors. An advanced discharge design of my own design will be publically tested and validated for the first time. It will be clearly demonstrated that this device does what I claim it to do. Yes, the key power source within the radiant energy detector is rare and is expensive. However, knowing the true mechanisms of nuclear reactions opens the door to a practical source of this material. It will be further understood that there are clean, and safe nuclear reactions. The Moray fission formula leaves behind a clean nuclear ash. This is the same stuff that nature leaves behind. You use it in balloons at birthday parties! It is called helium gas. Remember who told you this! -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 08:11:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA30817; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 08:11:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 08:11:35 -0800 Message-ID: <386596B1.84BB8A40@servtech.com> Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 23:16:49 -0500 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Looking for Reference References: <38662728.59DD@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ogs3t1.0.LX7.tuZPu"@mx1> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13342 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I'll frame my question in terms of the homopolar generator. I see three cases for a conductor moving in a magnetic field. I am looking for a *reference* to *experimental* results for case #3 below. case #1: Magnet fixed in lab frame, conductor moving: This is the usual Homopolar generator setup. You can measure a potential difference between the inner and out edges of the conductor. Easy to find references for this case. case #2: Magnet and conductor rotate together w.r.t. lab frame: Faraday tried this case and was able to measure a potential difference between the inner and outer edges of the conductor. Also JLN has test results on this. case #3: Magnet rotates, conductor stationary w.r.t. lab frame: I can't find any references for this case. Does anyone know of references or has anyone done this experiment? My guess is that no potential different will be measured in the lab frame. But then, in the ref. frame of the moving disk, this is the same as case #1 above, so there should be a potential difference measured in the disk ref frame. But a potential difference here means a movement of electrons in the conductor. But if we have movement and buildup of electrons in the conductor we should be able to measure that in the lab frame. Does anyone *know* what happens in case #3? Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 09:08:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA11979; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 09:08:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 09:08:19 -0800 Message-ID: <38664B74.541B@cyberportal.net> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 12:08:04 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: The Runos CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification References: <3866144A.2620@cyberportal.net> <001b01bf4fbf$814cb8e0$414c4c0c@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rivuq2.0.4x2.3kaPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13343 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com The Runos wrote: > < > > Now I'm confused. I know (for a fact) that when the US and other countries > used explosives to implode their fissionable materials, the explosive would > be gone (or used up) by the time the U235 (or U234 or Pu239 or Cf252 > or......many other things) had released it's energy. Even before the nuclear > materials release their energy through fission or fusion the explosive would > be gone. It was used to compress the material - nothing more. If the explosive explodes first it still contains the same amount of moderator. It is just oxidized. It is still intact. > > Something you may not realize- > > If you are right, Bruce (and I'm not saying your not right, but you may not > be), how come it is possible to get critical mass and a full-blown nuclear > explosion using no explosives at all? One doesn't need any PETN or TNT or > any explosive (they never used pure TNT anyway, even in fat man it was > mixed with other primary explosives) to get compression enough to cause the > reaction. It does not matter what type of explosive that they are using. The moderator that they choose to use may not contain oxygen to be classified as an explosive. However, a uranium casing is extremely explosive when it reaches its chemical flash point. It fact, they used fully depleted uranium on anti-tank "dog-faced" 50 caliber bullets in the Gulf War. The burn is intense! It is not a nuclear reaction. So, you can get the power of a nuke without all the "nuke-e-poo." > > At least thats my theory, can you tell me if it would work? If you > get a sonar going that has the correct freq. (to match the materials > mechanical freq.) you can compress it, and a lot easier then with > explosives. I will explain this more clearly in July. I don't want to release everything until then. > > There are also design's in which the explosves do not touch, and never come > in contact with, the nuclear materials. Most, in fact, only touch the U238 > or lead tamper. Have you taken into account that the tamper can be non > reactive lead instead of U238? It was lead in the Tsar Bomb (the biggest > bomb ever exploded, by the Russians, ~52 Mt), but that bomb was made to use > U238 as the tamper, the Russians just didn't want the bombs full yeild, ~100 > Mt to be tested (they knew the U238 tamper's would add at least 50 Mt to the > yeild - so why test something you know works)? I have gotten more involved in how the Nuke Bomb explodes than I cared to get into. My primary objective was explain where the radiant energy receiver gets its power. You have to know the basics first. The catch-22 is that I do not wish to give away the whole ball of wax before the conference because people will not want to attend. I will get to the heart of what I have been trying to convey in July. It will be well worth the wait. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 09:44:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA23047; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 09:44:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 09:44:08 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 12:38:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Electrolysis of Water; Experiment #1 ad nauseam Message-ID: <19991226.123852.-503961.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-8,20-21 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HbGYk1.0.xd5.dFbPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13344 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 25 Dec 1999 09:01:59 -0000 "David Callaghan" writes: >Hi all > >I think that electrolysis with Sodium Chloride would produce Sodium >Hypochlorite rather than >Sodium Hydroxide. > This process is used commercially to produce NaOH (aq) from brine (a saturated, aqueous solution of NaCl). Of course there will be other byproducts, Robin van Spaandonk is correct. However, very nearly all reactions produce impurities and, as he says, the concentration of these impurities varies with the circumstances (impurities in the initial solution, voltage, current, electrode material, etc.). According to one of my chemistry textbooks, sodium hypochlorite (NaClO) is prepared commercially by electrolysis of a cold, dilute aqueous solution of sodium chloride. When chlorine and sodium hydroxide are produced, the chlorine hydrolyses into hypochlorous acid which reacts with the sodium hydroxide to form sodium hypochlorite. The key is, again, the conditions under which the electrolysis is run. -Tom ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 11:12:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA13715; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 11:12:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 11:12:20 -0800 Message-ID: <38666B3D.C8A3E178@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 14:23:42 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" Reply-To: H2OPower@listbot.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, "Michael S. Johnston" Subject: Re: Electrolysis of Water; Experiment #1 ad nauseam References: <19991220.164533.-427849.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------300CFDA7DBB9A5B790E97426" Resent-Message-ID: <"GBtyW.0.CM3.KYcPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13345 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------300CFDA7DBB9A5B790E97426 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well I've found that, unless I explain every nauseating detail, the discussion tends to deteriorate into innumerable critiques of minuscule things I left out because I assumed they were common knowledge. I've got my own list now so I won't be taking up space on anyone else's. That seems fair to me. In answer to your question about the implications of the dreaded "Experiment #1" post, I would like to point out that it was simply an easy experiment to determine weather or not an electric current is generated in a coil of water (with electrolyte) filled tubing. Whwn done loke a similar basic experiment with a copper coil and a magnet. If you think that this is a throwback you're probably right. I for one don't know weather or not a charge could be generated in this way however, so I like to start at the beginning with things. If it does generate a charge, as you say below, then figure this out; If you can generate a charge in this manner in a small coil then obviously you could engineer and construct a complete, large generator similar in form and function to a "normal" copper wound generator, right? Sure, I mean a few modifications would be necessary but what the heck right? Ok then, what would be the products of this "Water Generator"? Well, an electric charge for sure. Also though you would be creating H2 gas at the cathode and O2 gas at the anode due to the decomposition of your conductor (the water). So you could produce an amount of electricity that would be determined solely by the number of loops in your coil and as a BY-PRODUCT you would be producing an amount of the two gasses mentioned above that is directly proportional to the amount of electricity that you are generating........ See what I mean? Getting sort of interesting isn't it? MJ tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: > Mr. Johnston, > > Why do we have to be drawn back to the time of Faraday, if not earlier? > A moving charge induces a magnetic field and a moving magnetic field > induces an electric field. There is nothing so very difficult about > that. The moving magnet, in "Experiment #1," induces an electric current > in the water. Because of the shape of the water conductor, the energy is > effectively transmitted to the galvanometer (i.e. the compass). It does > not matter if the water conductor is replaced by an iron conductor, an > electric current will still be introduced. Wat good does your > "revelation" do? How does it contribute to our mutual knowledge? > > Please save yourself the trouble of telling me that I don't know what I > am talking about. I may not always have the exactly correct terms, but I > have done many experiments with electrolysis, which is all that your > device in the series of papers you presented does. It still remains for > you to prove that doing electrolysis your way provides free energy. If > you will recall my previous posts then you will see that you did not > succeed in this before. > > As a side point, H20 (l) <---> H+ (aq) + OH- (aq) is not exactly the > case. H+ is a lone proton, and what tends to happen is that it > associates with another water molecule. Therefore, 2 H2O (l) <----> H3O+ > (aq) + OH- (aq) is a better representation of reality. This reaction > very, very heavily favors the left hand side. > > As far as the "deadly chlorine gas" is concerned, just be careful. I > have not observed chlorine gas to be generated, at least not to any > appreciable extent, unless the ions are restricted in their flow, as by a > semipermeable barrier (of asbestos, for example). When this happens, > chlorine gas and elemental sodium, which very rapidly reacts with the > water to form sodium hydroxide and molecular hydrogen, are formed. The > chlorine gas is heavier than air, and is produced in such small > quantities (in experiments not involving extremely rapid electrolysis) > that it is a simple matter to ventilate the area of the gas. Be > forewarned, however, that chlorine can (I've heard) cause a certain type > of pneumonia that is incurable. At very least, it is extremely > irritating to the lungs and mucous membranes. > > -Tom Grimes > ___________________________________________________________________ > Why pay more to get Web access? > Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! > Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. --------------300CFDA7DBB9A5B790E97426 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Michael S. Johnston Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Michael S. Johnston n: ;Michael S. Johnston org: My site http://1dove.com/msj/ email;internet: enki@csrlink.net title: Jim's Free Energy Site http://geocities.com/frenrg/ x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------300CFDA7DBB9A5B790E97426-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 12:24:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA01508; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 12:24:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 12:24:39 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Looking for Reference Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 07:24:34 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <38662728.59DD@cyberportal.net> <386596B1.84BB8A40@servtech.com> In-Reply-To: <386596B1.84BB8A40@servtech.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id MAA01489 Resent-Message-ID: <"n6hS8.0.TN.7cdPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13346 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 25 Dec 1999 23:16:49 -0500, Robert Gray wrote: > > >I'll frame my question in terms of the homopolar generator. > >I see three cases for a conductor moving in a magnetic field. >I am looking for a *reference* to *experimental* results for >case #3 below. > >case #1: Magnet fixed in lab frame, conductor moving: >This is the usual Homopolar generator setup. You can measure >a potential difference between the inner and out edges of the >conductor. Easy to find references for this case. You neglect to mention here that the return wiring (i.e. the measurement instrument) is also stationary in the lab frame. [snip] >case #3: Magnet rotates, conductor stationary w.r.t. lab frame: >I can't find any references for this case. Does anyone know >of references or has anyone done this experiment? My guess >is that no potential different will be measured in the >lab frame. But then, in the ref. frame of the moving disk, this >is the same as case #1 above, so there should be a potential >difference measured in the disk ref frame. No this situation is not the same as number 1. From the reference frame of the moving disk, the measurement device (return wiring) is also rotating in this case (i.e. disk and return wiring remain in the same frame). [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 15:34:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA07412; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 15:34:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 15:34:36 -0800 Message-ID: <3866A8B6.E913E1FA@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 18:45:58 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" Reply-To: H2OPower@listbot.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: energy21 , "exotic@casagrande.com" , freenrg-l , jlnlabs , "nuenergy@listbot.com" , "nuenergy2@listbot.com" Subject: H2O Fuel Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3F06A593747D76F0921B8190" Resent-Message-ID: <"LnQM73.0.jp1.COgPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13347 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3F06A593747D76F0921B8190 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, In an effort to reduce the lengthy posts that I am prone to in regard to using water as a fuel source I have obtained my own list. :-) Anyone who is interested in this topic can now go to http://H2OPower/ and join up or read the archives. Everybody happy now? MJ --------------3F06A593747D76F0921B8190 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Michael S. Johnston Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Michael S. Johnston n: ;Michael S. Johnston org: My site http://1dove.com/msj/ email;internet: enki@csrlink.net title: Jim's Free Energy Site http://geocities.com/frenrg/ x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------3F06A593747D76F0921B8190-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 15:42:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA09659; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 15:42:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 15:42:53 -0800 Message-ID: <3866007A.85C1542C@servtech.com> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 06:48:10 -0500 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Looking for Reference References: <38662728.59DD@cyberportal.net> <386596B1.84BB8A40@servtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kAEPD3.0.lM2.yVgPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13348 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > >case #3: Magnet rotates, conductor stationary w.r.t. lab frame: > >I can't find any references for this case. Does anyone know > >of references or has anyone done this experiment? My guess > >is that no potential different will be measured in the > >lab frame. But then, in the ref. frame of the moving disk, this > >is the same as case #1 above, so there should be a potential > >difference measured in the disk ref frame. > > No this situation is not the same as number 1. From the reference frame of > the moving disk, the measurement device (return wiring) is also rotating in > this case (i.e. disk and return wiring remain in the same frame). > [snip] > Thanks for your comments. Anyone doing measurements needs to consider the lead wires to the measurement instrumentation. But what about putting a diode in the middle of a single strand of wire so that if there is any electron flow while the magnet is rotating but the single strand of wire is not moving (in the lab frame) you will end up with more electrons on 1/2 of the wire than on the other half of the wire. Then stop the rotation of the magnet and make a measurement. The diode would prevent the electrons from flow back through the wire to cancel everything out. So if there is any electron flow there should be a way to measure it *without* concern for lead connections. (The diode is an idealization here which allows electron flow in only one direction, if there is any electron flow.) What I mean when I say that case #3 is "like" case #1 is that w.r.t. the rotating magnet, the conductor will look like it is moving. I am not considering the method of measurement in that statement alone. And I am not concerned that rotation is not really an inertial frame for I can replace the rotating magnet with a *very* long magnet moving linearly in the lab frame. I am only using the homopolar generator as an easy visualization of the situation. But I want to know if there really is any electron flow in the wire. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 15:54:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA13610; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 15:54:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 15:54:49 -0800 Message-ID: <3866AD72.AA2457E8@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 19:06:10 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" Reply-To: H2OPower@listbot.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: energy21 , "exotic@casagrande.com" , freenrg-l , jlnlabs , "nuenergy2@listbot.com" , "nuenergy@listbot.com" Subject: Clarification Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------602407CEB47A8396C90EC7E2" Resent-Message-ID: <"Qp2wZ1.0.ZK3.8hgPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13349 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------602407CEB47A8396C90EC7E2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I should have given the whole address to start, sorry. It is- http://H2OPower.listbot.com/ MJ --------------602407CEB47A8396C90EC7E2 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Michael S. Johnston Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Michael S. Johnston n: ;Michael S. Johnston org: H2OPower email;internet: enki@csrlink.net title: God x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: TRUE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------602407CEB47A8396C90EC7E2-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 15:59:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA15438; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 15:59:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 15:59:53 -0800 Message-ID: <3866AEA4.ADF96416@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 19:11:16 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" Reply-To: H2OPower@listbot.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Looking for Reference References: <38662728.59DD@cyberportal.net> <386596B1.84BB8A40@servtech.com> <3866007A.85C1542C@servtech.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------70B07AB8FE629935CB7DC276" Resent-Message-ID: <"jBzhb1.0.7n3.tlgPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13350 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------70B07AB8FE629935CB7DC276 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm getting into this conversation rather late but I have a question. Is your original question weather or not the effects of rotating the magnet in a generator with a stationary coil are the same as rotating the coil with a stationary magnet? MJ Robert Gray wrote: > Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > > > > >case #3: Magnet rotates, conductor stationary w.r.t. lab frame: > > >I can't find any references for this case. Does anyone know > > >of references or has anyone done this experiment? > Anyone doing measurements needs to consider > the lead wires to the measurement instrumentation. > > > > What I mean when I say that case #3 is "like" case #1 is that w.r.t. the > rotating magnet, > the conductor will look like it is moving. I am not considering the method of > measurement > in that statement alone. And I am not concerned that rotation is not > really an inertial frame for I can replace the rotating magnet with a *very* > long > magnet moving linearly in the lab frame. I am only using the homopolar > generator as > an easy visualization of the situation. > > But I want to know if there really is any electron flow in the wire. > > Bob Gray --------------70B07AB8FE629935CB7DC276 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Michael S. Johnston Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Michael S. Johnston n: ;Michael S. Johnston org: H2OPower email;internet: enki@csrlink.net title: God x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: TRUE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------70B07AB8FE629935CB7DC276-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 16:14:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA17955; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 16:14:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 16:14:18 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Looking for Reference Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 11:14:11 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <38662728.59DD@cyberportal.net> <386596B1.84BB8A40@servtech.com> <3866007A.85C1542C@servtech.com> In-Reply-To: <3866007A.85C1542C@servtech.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA17926 Resent-Message-ID: <"qSRXI2.0.SO4.PzgPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13351 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 26 Dec 1999 06:48:10 -0500, Robert Gray wrote: [snip] >in that statement alone. And I am not concerned that rotation is not >really an inertial frame for I can replace the rotating magnet with a *very* >long >magnet moving linearly in the lab frame. I am only using the homopolar >generator as >an easy visualization of the situation. > >But I want to know if there really is any electron flow in the wire. > >Bob Gray AFAIK, you will only get a voltage, if part of your circuit moves relative to the magnetic field, while another part doesn't. It is the *difference* in motion between two parts of the circuit, relative to the field that is responsible for the voltage. As an aside, homopolar generators usually only produce millivolts, which is too little for a practical diode (just in case you should actually consider doing this experiment). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 16:28:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA20543; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 16:28:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 16:28:09 -0800 Message-ID: <3866B541.78F3D631@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 19:39:30 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" Reply-To: H2OPower@listbot.com Organization: http://H2OPower.listbot.com/ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Looking for Reference References: <38662728.59DD@cyberportal.net> <386596B1.84BB8A40@servtech.com> <3866007A.85C1542C@servtech.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------101DA378F79C93191A791CB4" Resent-Message-ID: <"OAqqV1.0.p05.OAhPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13352 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------101DA378F79C93191A791CB4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Coincidentally enough I have been pondering a question similar to this one recently. I agree with Robin's comments below. Actually it is common knowledge and somewhat common practice in some generators to rotate the magnet instead of the coil. Often in these situations the magnet being used is an electromagnet but never the less it is done. My thoughts have been more along the lines of weather or not the mechanics of the thing are the same in either case(rotating the coil/stationary magnet vs. rotating the magnet/stationary coil). I don't feel that they are. My reasons for this are posted on the archives section of my list in Magnetic Induction Parts 1 & 2 (link is above). MJ Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > On Sun, 26 Dec 1999 06:48:10 -0500, Robert Gray wrote: > [snip] > >in that statement alone. And I am not concerned that rotation is not > >really an inertial frame for I can replace the rotating magnet with a *very* > >long > >magnet moving linearly in the lab frame. I am only using the homopolar > >generator as > >an easy visualization of the situation. > > > >But I want to know if there really is any electron flow in the wire. > > > >Bob Gray > AFAIK, you will only get a voltage, if part of your circuit moves relative > to the magnetic field, while another part doesn't. It is the *difference* in > motion between two parts of the circuit, relative to the field that is > responsible for the voltage. > As an aside, homopolar generators usually only produce millivolts, which is > too little for a practical diode (just in case you should actually consider > doing this experiment). > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk --------------101DA378F79C93191A791CB4 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Michael S. Johnston Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Michael S. Johnston n: ;Michael S. Johnston org: H2OPower email;internet: enki@csrlink.net title: God x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: TRUE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------101DA378F79C93191A791CB4-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 16:38:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA22189; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 16:38:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 16:38:25 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Let us not over-look something Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 11:38:19 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <386615F0.5F07@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <386615F0.5F07@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA22172 Resent-Message-ID: <"lVrJ21.0.cQ5.0KhPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13353 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 26 Dec 1999 08:19:44 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: >T.N.T. is a moderator in our example. Did anyone stop to think >that it is made out of Carbon and hydrogen? Two moderator materials! >What does this do for the reaction? [snip] To some extent, it will reflect some neutrons that would otherwise have escaped, back into the fissile material, thereby reducing the amount of material required to achieve criticality, and also slow them down in the process, making them more likely to contribute to the fission process. However my gut feel is that this is not a major effect, because I think most neutrons won't even make it out of the fissile material to start with, i.e. the fissile material itself plays the major moderation role. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 16:54:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA13774; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 16:54:13 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 16:54:13 -0800 (PST) From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 11:50:50 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <38659AB3.2212@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <38659AB3.2212@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id QAA13750 Resent-Message-ID: <"CC0Fo.0.6N3.oYhPu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13354 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 25 Dec 1999 23:33:55 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: >U-235 and Radium are catalysts that speed up chemical reactions. >For example; one ton of T.N.T. can be made to give up its' >energy in a shorter span of time. Making a hiroshima type >explosion. In this example the illusion is given that more >energy has been released. [snip] I'm afraid that in this case it is indeed largely an illusion. You won't get 1 ton to do the work of 20000 tons, no matter how fast you make it explode. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 17:02:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA15813; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 17:02:35 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 17:02:35 -0800 (PST) From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Q: Why Am I Talking About Nuke Bombs? Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 11:59:15 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <38662728.59DD@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <38662728.59DD@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id RAA15794 Resent-Message-ID: <"0LA_D3.0.zs3.fghPu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13355 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 26 Dec 1999 09:33:12 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: Hi Bruce, You may have devised an efficient means of converting the energy of radioactive materials into electrical power. If so, then this is an invention of considerable importance. Without revealing any schematics, or exactly how this is done, can you supply any info. on the amount of power produced, and how much and what type of radioactive material is present? >A: Because you must understand how nukes work before > you can understand the radiant energy receiver. > > The power of the Moray detector was in the "fission material" > that it contained. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 17:46:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA04338; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 17:46:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 17:46:21 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Truth will be known Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 12:46:14 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <38617711.186F@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <38617711.186F@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA04303 Resent-Message-ID: <"tAVUZ3.0.e31.iJiPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13356 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 22 Dec 1999 20:12:49 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: [snip] >The Chemical Effects of Alpha Particles and Electrons >by Samuel C. Lind, PH.D. >U.S. Bureau of Mines 1921 [snip] Hi Bruce, I'm afraid I don't have access to this book. Could you perhaps post the most relevant paragraph(s)? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 18:07:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA24585; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 18:07:30 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 18:07:30 -0800 (PST) From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: H2OPower@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 20:13:51 -0500 Subject: Still going Message-ID: <19991226.205831.-414083.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3,5,7,9-11,15-16,18-19,22-23,25,27-28,30-32,34-35,37,39,41,43,45,47,49,51,53,55,57,59-60,62-63,84-85,87-92 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tYvwq1.0.206.WdiPu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13357 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Although some members of the list, especially Mr. Johnston in this case, seem to be hurt by attempts at divining the worthy material from the dross, I will, nevertheless, respond to Mr. Johnstons post. On Sun, 26 Dec 1999 14:23:42 -0500 "Michael S. Johnston" writes: > Well I've found that, unless I explain every nauseating detail, the discussion >tends to deteriorate into innumerable critiques of minuscule things I left out >because I assumed they were common knowledge. What? Detail can make or break an argument, and, frankly, yours doesn't seem to hold water. As far as counting on common knowledge goes, I have no idea to what you can be refering. It seems that all your experiment did was provide another proof of common knowledge. >I've got my own list now so I won't be taking up space on anyone else's. That seems fair to me. Good for you! And I mean that sincerely, in a propitious manner. Judging from the name, I take it your list is devoted to obtaining power from water, which is a worthy and probably feasible goal. > In answer to your question about the implications of the dreaded "Experiment #1" >post, I would like to point out that it was simply an easy experiment to determine >weather or not an electric current is generated in a coil of water (with >electrolyte) filled tubing. Whwn done loke a similar basic experiment with a copper >coil and a magnet. I did not "dread" your experiment, it was thought provoking but, in the end, almost fruitless. > If you think that this is a throwback you're probably right. I for one don't >know weather or not a charge could be generated in this way however, so I like to >start at the beginning with things. If it does generate a charge, as you say below, >then figure this out; If you can generate a charge in this manner in a small coil >then obviously you could engineer and construct a complete, large generator similar >in form and function to a "normal" copper wound generator, right? Sure, I mean a >few modifications would be necessary but what the heck right? Ok then, what would >be the products of this "Water Generator"? Well, an electric charge for sure. Also >though you would be creating H2 gas at the cathode and O2 gas at the anode due to >the decomposition of your conductor (the water). So you could produce an amount of >electricity that would be determined solely by the number of loops in your coil and >as a BY-PRODUCT you would be producing an amount of the two gasses mentioned above >that is directly proportional to the amount of electricity that you are >generating........ See what I mean? Getting sort of interesting isn't it? Yes, that is interesting. Did you misread my proposed modification of your experiment? I used the "common knowledge" that extra electrons need to be added to an aqueous solution being electrolyzed for gases to be evolved. If you don't believe me, then write out the equation for the electrolysis of water (2 H2O (l) ---(electricity)---> 2 H2 (g) + O2 (g)) and calculate the number of valence electrons present on each side (16 for the left, 18 for the right); you see that an electron source needs to supply 1 mole of electrons for every 1 mole of water that is decomposed. Thus, unless the "water generator" is connected to a load that will donate electrons, the electrolyte should not decompose. I say "should not" because I do not know if there are other ways to obtain electrons (i.e. stripping anions of extra electrons, creation of new electrons[?, highly unlikely]), hence my proposed modification of your apparatus to test this possibility. Now, if we assume that the load that the water generator is connected to can donate (at least a limited number of) electrons (i.e. ground), then the H2 and O2 evolved are still not "free" because they use up some of the power put into the coil. By trying electrolysis without electrodes one might find a way to generate free energy. Another consideration is that at least one on the list, Emmett, has tried to use AC for electrolysis and found that it produced no gas (not in a controlled experiment, this point needs looking into). There's still a lot of research to do, and complaning about criticism, an essential aspect of the scientific method, isn't going to promote it. -Tom Grimes ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 18:34:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA12158; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 18:34:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 18:34:43 -0800 Message-ID: <386628C0.4EC359DA@servtech.com> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 09:40:00 -0500 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Looking for Reference References: <38662728.59DD@cyberportal.net> <386596B1.84BB8A40@servtech.com> <3866007A.85C1542C@servtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gMPxA2.0.oz2.21jPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13358 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > On Sun, 26 Dec 1999 06:48:10 -0500, Robert Gray wrote: > [snip] > >in that statement alone. And I am not concerned that rotation is not > >really an inertial frame for I can replace the rotating magnet with a *very* > >long > >magnet moving linearly in the lab frame. I am only using the homopolar > >generator as > >an easy visualization of the situation. > > > >But I want to know if there really is any electron flow in the wire. > > > >Bob Gray > AFAIK, you will only get a voltage, if part of your circuit moves relative > to the magnetic field, while another part doesn't. It is the *difference* in > motion between two parts of the circuit, relative to the field that is > responsible for the voltage. If I only have a single straight wire (maybe a diode in the middle) then there is really only one part to the circuit. And it is moving with respect to the magnet. But does that mean its moving w.r.t. the magnetic field? > > As an aside, homopolar generators usually only produce millivolts, which is > too little for a practical diode (just in case you should actually consider > doing this experiment). > That's what I have been told before about the homopolar generator, low voltage but very high current (electron movement.) So, O.K., we don't use a diode. We can simply cut the wire in half at some point while the magnet is in motion so the 2 half are no longer in contact. Then stop the motion of the magnet. Then take a measurement. If there was any electron flow the 2 halves should be at different potentials. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 18:39:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA13616; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 18:39:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 18:39:52 -0800 Message-ID: <3866D41D.D8F22F71@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 21:51:10 -0500 From: "Michael S. Johnston" Reply-To: H2OPower@listbot.com Organization: http://H2OPower.listbot.com/ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: H2OPower@listbot.com Subject: Re: Still going References: <19991226.205831.-414083.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------DC5792C89F6682A0B5AC6023" Resent-Message-ID: <"i8ht-.0.cK3.t5jPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13359 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------DC5792C89F6682A0B5AC6023 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: > Although some members of the list, especially Mr. Johnston in this case, > seem to be hurt by attempts at divining the worthy material from the > dross, I will, nevertheless, respond to Mr. Johnstons post. I'm not hurt at all, just trying to be considerate of others. > > > What? Detail can make or break an argument, and, frankly, yours doesn't > seem to hold water. Hold water? Is that a pun? > As far as counting on common knowledge goes, I have > no idea to what you can be refering. Stuff most people learn in high school...you know. > It seems that all your experiment > did was provide another proof of common knowledge. > > >I've got my own list now so I won't be taking up space on anyone else's. > That seems fair to me. > > Good for you! And I mean that sincerely, in a propitious manner. > Judging from the name, I take it your list is devoted to obtaining power > from water, which is a worthy and probably feasible goal. Thank you. > > > I did not "dread" your experiment, it was thought provoking but, in the > end, almost fruitless. I'm being dramatic with "dread". I don't think fruitless however. I'm not done yet. > > > > > Yes, that is interesting. Did you misread my proposed modification of > your experiment? I used the "common knowledge" that extra electrons need > to be added to an aqueous solution being electrolyzed for gases to be > evolved. If you don't believe me, then write out the equation for the > electrolysis of water (2 H2O (l) ---(electricity)---> 2 H2 (g) + O2 (g)) > and calculate the number of valence electrons present on each side (16 > for the left, 18 for the right); you see that an electron source needs to > supply 1 mole of electrons for every 1 mole of water that is decomposed. > Thus, unless the "water generator" is connected to a load that will > donate electrons, the electrolyte should not decompose. Actually my thought was to circulate the water in such a way that the ions from one side would re-unite with the ions from the other side. You would have to do it in a way that didn't disturb the production of gasses at your electrodes but it's not hard to imagine several ways to do it. I'm getting another "chapter" ready in which an example of such a generator is depicted along with addressing most major mechanical difficulties that I can forsee in it's construction. I am not going to post it until I actually, personally do the experiment as outlined in the "Experiment #1" paper. I haven't had time to get to it yet. Even if that doesn't go as planned I have several more ways to explore. One is by using proximity induction with an electromagnet and wrapping my iron tubing around an iron core. > I say "should > not" because I do not know if there are other ways to obtain electrons > (i.e. stripping anions of extra electrons, creation of new electrons[?, > highly unlikely]), hence my proposed modification of your apparatus to > test this possibility. Now, if we assume that the load that the water > generator is connected to can donate (at least a limited number of) > electrons (i.e. ground), then the H2 and O2 evolved are still not "free" > because they use up some of the power put into the coil. By trying > electrolysis without electrodes one might find a way to generate free > energy. I really don't think that this is likely without electrodes. At any rate it would be awfully hard to seperate your gasses that way wouldn't it? I do think that proximity induction from the magnetic field as opposed to getting electricity directly from the electric current might prove interesting. > Another consideration is that at least one on the list, Emmett, > has tried to use AC for electrolysis and found that it produced no gas > (not in a controlled experiment, this point needs looking into). One would think that, since AC changes polarity regularly, what would happen is that the polarity of your electrodes would also change polarity at the same rate (60 times per second) and alternately produce H2 and O2 so therefore if this was happening sixty times a second (as with 60 cycle AC) then the result would perhaps be that either it is cycling too fast to produce gas or, more interestingly (to my way of thinking), the H2 and O2 produced would never get past the second step in the disassociation process and be rendered into ions which would then reunite with the ions created in the next cycle and it all would happen right at the surface of the electrodes so that no gas production would be visable. > > > There's still a lot of research to do, and complaning about criticism, an > essential aspect of the scientific method, isn't going to promote it. > > -Tom Grimes Actually I got kicked off keelynet for responding to a critic so I am trying to be polite and careful with what I do. For example someone tried to claim that water is such a good insulator that he had hosed down 60,000 volt lines in a power plant with a one inch fire hose with no ill effects. I could have told him that he must have been well insulated or just suggested that if he was right then he should have no qualms about taking a piss on that line.hehe...see what I mean? MJ > > > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. --------------DC5792C89F6682A0B5AC6023 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Michael S. Johnston Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Michael S. Johnston n: ;Michael S. Johnston org: H2OPower email;internet: enki@csrlink.net title: God x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: TRUE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------DC5792C89F6682A0B5AC6023-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 19:05:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA03889; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 19:04:41 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 19:04:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38662F1B.DEDF9528@servtech.com> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 10:07:07 -0500 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H2OPower@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Looking for Reference References: <38662728.59DD@cyberportal.net> <386596B1.84BB8A40@servtech.com> <3866007A.85C1542C@servtech.com> <3866B541.78F3D631@csrlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2lT0Y3.0.cy.2TjPu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13360 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com "Michael S. Johnston" wrote: > Hi, > Coincidentally enough I have been pondering a question similar to this one > recently. I agree with Robin's comments below. Actually it is common knowledge > and somewhat common practice in some generators to rotate the magnet instead of > the coil. Often in these situations the magnet being used is an electromagnet but > never the less it is done. In motor and generator construction, its my understanding that they work because of changes in magnetic flux in coils. So whether the magnet rotates of the coils rotate makes little difference because with any rotation, in these designs, there is a change of magnetic flux in the coils. This is not the situation I am refering to. No coils. No change of flux. Constant magnet field strength. Minimum self inductance (single straight wire. No loops). If the magnet moves, is there an induced electron movement in the stationary wire? My guess is that there is no electron flow in this case. In the other 2 cases I mentioned in which the conductor is moved, the force to move the electrons, I imagine, comes from the force moving the conductor. If there is no external force moving the conductor then there is no external force to move the electrons so no electron flow. But I really want to see experimental results. If there is electron flow, then I don't see any "back" force on the rotating magnet. So you get a current with no back force slowing the magnet. Could this lead to a motor with no back EMF losses? If there is no electron flow then is special relativity wrong. Shouldn't the "moving" magnetic field be "seen" by the stationary wire as part electric field and part magnetic field? The electric field part would cause the elctrons to move. Unless, as has been suggested, the magnetic *field* does not "move" with the field source. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 19:02:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA18708; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 19:02:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 19:02:38 -0800 Message-ID: <3866D6C0.2646@cyberportal.net> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 22:02:24 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: Q: Why Am I Talking About Nuke Bombs? References: <38662728.59DD@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"siabm1.0.Ca4.DRjPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13361 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > Hi Bruce, > > You may have devised an efficient means of converting the energy of > radioactive materials into electrical power. If so, then this is an > invention of considerable importance. I rediscovered Moray's process and more. :) My concern is how that it will be used. > > Without revealing any schematics, or exactly how this is done, can you > supply any info. on the amount of power produced, and how much and what > type of radioactive material is present? I have revealed 99% of the device. It was freely given! The only thing that needs to be revealed now is how to obtain a safe and cheap source. The working principle will be validated next July. What more can I do? I grow tired of these dialogs. I can not seem to get the message across. Your questions will be answered next July. That's all I am going to say at this point. The horse has been beaten to death. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 19:59:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA07809; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 19:59:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 19:59:31 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 17:59:25 -1000 Subject: Re: Looking for Reference From: Rick Monteverde To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <38662F1B.DEDF9528@servtech.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zVzhF2.0.sv1.ZGkPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13362 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bob - ...More than just suggested, experiments have been done. Don't have the reference for you, but I've seen it. Very sensitive detectors were set up to see if there would be any induction from a rotating magnet, and none was found to some very high degree of sensitivity. The conclusion was that the fields themselves don't contain an angular component when their source rotates, or that if there is one, it was very tiny and below the threshold of detection of the equipment used in the experiments. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI on 12/26/99 5:07 AM, Robert Gray at rwgray@servtech.com wrote: > Unless, as has been suggested, the magnetic *field* does not "move" with the > field source. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 21:33:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA32732; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 21:33:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 21:33:12 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Looking for Reference Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 16:33:01 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <38662728.59DD@cyberportal.net> <386596B1.84BB8A40@servtech.com> <3866007A.85C1542C@servtech.com> <386628C0.4EC359DA@servtech.com> In-Reply-To: <386628C0.4EC359DA@servtech.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA32708 Resent-Message-ID: <"uVjC.0.L_7.NelPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13363 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 26 Dec 1999 09:40:00 -0500, Robert Gray wrote: [snip] >> AFAIK, you will only get a voltage, if part of your circuit moves relative >> to the magnetic field, while another part doesn't. It is the *difference* in >> motion between two parts of the circuit, relative to the field that is >> responsible for the voltage. > >If I only have a single straight wire (maybe a diode in the middle) then there >is really only one part to the circuit. And it is moving with respect to the >magnet. But does that mean its moving w.r.t. the magnetic field? > Even in this case, there are two parts to the *circuit*. The second part consists of the completion of the circuit through the meter that you use to measure the voltage. [snip] >So, O.K., we don't use a diode. We can simply cut the wire in half at some point > >while the magnet is in motion so the 2 half are no longer in contact. >Then stop the motion of the magnet. Then take a measurement. If there was >any electron flow the 2 halves should be at different potentials. > >Bob Gray > In order to measure potential, any real device relies on a flow of current, however small. That means that in this case the current would need to be supplied by the capacitance of the wires, which is incredibly small. Too small in fact to contain enough charge for what you have in mind. But I don't really see the purpose of the diode anyway. You can just connect a meter, and measure the voltage directly while the wire is moving through the magnetic field. This is a classic school science experiment. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 21:39:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA03789; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 21:39:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 21:39:27 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Looking for Reference Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 16:39:23 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <38662728.59DD@cyberportal.net> <386596B1.84BB8A40@servtech.com> <3866007A.85C1542C@servtech.com> <3866B541.78F3D631@csrlink.net> <38662F1B.DEDF9528@serv tech.com> In-Reply-To: <38662F1B.DEDF9528@servtech.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA03758 Resent-Message-ID: <"bvkon.0.0x.FklPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13364 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 26 Dec 1999 10:07:07 -0500, Robert Gray wrote: [snip] >In motor and generator construction, its my understanding that they work because >of changes in magnetic flux in coils. So whether the magnet rotates of the coils >rotate makes little difference because with any rotation, in these designs, there >is a change of magnetic flux in the coils. > >This is not the situation I am refering to. No coils. No change of flux. Constant >magnet field strength. Minimum self inductance (single straight wire. No loops). Even a single straight wire moving through a field is subject to a change in flux. In fact this describes exactly what happens to each wire in the windings of a motor. > >If the magnet moves, is there an induced electron movement in the stationary >wire? Yes. Happens in both motors and generators. You can do it yourself, just grab a coil of wire, tie the ends to a meter, and wave a magnet close to it. You will see the meter change with your hand movements. > >My guess is that there is no electron flow in this case. In the other 2 cases I >mentioned >in which the conductor is moved, the force to move the electrons, I imagine, comes >from the force moving the conductor. If there is no external force moving the >conductor then there is no external force to move the electrons so no electron flow. >But I really want to see experimental results. If there is electron flow, then I >don't >see any "back" force on the rotating magnet. The back force comes from the magnetic field around the wire, caused by the current flowing in it. >So you get a current with no back >force slowing the magnet. Could this lead to a motor with no back EMF losses? Not likely. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 21:50:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA07403; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 21:50:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 21:50:22 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Q: Why Am I Talking About Nuke Bombs? Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 16:50:17 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <38662728.59DD@cyberportal.net> <3866D6C0.2646@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <3866D6C0.2646@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA07384 Resent-Message-ID: <"vwiPc2.0.ap1.TulPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13365 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 26 Dec 1999 22:02:24 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: Hi Bruce, >I rediscovered Moray's process and more. :) >My concern is how that it will be used. Based on what you have released so far, I don't really see any way it can be misused. > > >> >> Without revealing any schematics, or exactly how this is done, can you >> supply any info. on the amount of power produced, and how much and what >> type of radioactive material is present? > > >I have revealed 99% of the device. It was freely given! Granted, but that isn't what I'm asking for, and you know it. What I would like to know is test results, which you seem particularly loth to divulge. >The only thing that needs to be revealed now is how to obtain >a safe and cheap source. The working principle will be validated >next July. What more can I do? You could answer the question. >I grow tired of these dialogs. I do too, but it's too important to ignore. >I can not seem to get the message across. That's because you keep repeating what I don't want to know, and refuse to tell what I do want to know. And what I'm asking for doesn't require you to reveal any secrets, quite the contrary. Yet it seems that the only thing you are willing to give away is the secret of how it works! >Your questions will be >answered next July. That's all I am going to say at this point. >The horse has been beaten to death. Yes, it has somewhat. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 22:02:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA10889; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 22:02:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 22:02:39 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Still going Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 17:02:34 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <19991226.205831.-414083.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <19991226.205831.-414083.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA10863 Resent-Message-ID: <"fLjRi1.0.2g2.-3mPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13366 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 26 Dec 1999 20:13:51 -0500, tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: [snip] >Yes, that is interesting. Did you misread my proposed modification of >your experiment? I used the "common knowledge" that extra electrons need >to be added to an aqueous solution being electrolyzed for gases to be >evolved. If you don't believe me, then write out the equation for the >electrolysis of water (2 H2O (l) ---(electricity)---> 2 H2 (g) + O2 (g)) >and calculate the number of valence electrons present on each side (16 >for the left, 18 for the right); you see that an electron source needs to Huh! Both water and the gasses are neutral, and contain the same number of electrons. Nothing has been added or taken away in total. All the passage of the current does, is transfer electrons from the negative "oxygen ions" to the positive "hydrogen ions" resulting in neutral gasses. [snip] (Oxygen only has 6 valence electrons, the other two are in the K shell). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 26 22:40:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA20218; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 22:40:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 22:40:33 -0800 Message-ID: <528386.946276819632.JavaMail.imail@bronty> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 22:40:19 -0800 (PST) From: Harvey D Norris Reply-To: To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Looking for Reference Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 199.174.178.148 Resent-Message-ID: <"s8Lgw.0.px4.XdmPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13367 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 26 Dec 1999 17:59:25 -1000, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > Bob - > > ...More than just suggested, experiments have been done. Don't have the > reference for you, but I've seen it. Very sensitive detectors were set up to > see if there would be any induction from a rotating magnet, and none was > found to some very high degree of sensitivity. The conclusion was that the > fields themselves don't contain an angular component when their source > rotates, or that if there is one, it was very tiny and below the threshold > of detection of the equipment used in the experiments. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > > on 12/26/99 5:07 AM, Robert Gray at rwgray@servtech.com wrote: > > > Unless, as has been suggested, the magnetic *field* does not "move" with the > > field source. > >From http://www.escribe.com/science/freenrg/m5257.html Gyromagnetic ratio Some time ago there was a discussion about when a cylindrical magnet with its poles at the ends of the cylinder is rotated on its cylindrical axis do the field lines move with the rotation of the cylinder? I expressed an opinion that they do not,which it appears they may do so and my opinion was wrong. More properly the field lines exhibit a quality of inertia and it is the change in velocity or second derivative acceleration that produces the scientific observation deduced in Einstein-Dehaas? experiments. Anyways others did this experiment also in different forms,but what was done was to spin the magnetic cylinder and stop it suddenly. The field lines would keep moving exhibiting magnetic inertia, which was deduced that a gyroscopic action from a rotating ferromagnetic electron spin was responsible. The acceleration of spin produces a gyroscopic reaction that resists the spin, but once the spin is established the field lines should rotate with the cylinder. Now the solid opinion seems to be that the field lines do not rotate with the cylinder as Rick M indicates. However it is important to also realize other situations could exist. In my experimental alternators, neither the field nor the output coils are in rotation : I wish everyone to understand that the alternators I have described in my posts use this same principle to move flux around a DC electromagnet known as a field coil. It is not exactly the same principle but what happens is this: the field poles are free to rotate around the electromagnetic cylinder with poles at the end as previously described, and in this instance is the field coil. To anyone unfamiliar with these pieces they look like two hands with the fingers between each other. In between the fingers the N and S poles spread their field lines out in air as a path of low reluctance or magnetic resistance. It is this leakage flux that finds another path of low reluctance in the steel segments between the output windings on another assembly on the outside of the rotating field poles. That assembly is stationary and so is the field coil. The only thing that revolves is the field poles. When they revolve around the field coil what connects the two sets of magnetic fingers together to rotate as a common piece is a welded brass connection of higher reluctance than the air gaps between the fingers. This is how it is possible to have an alternator without slip rings and brushes because the field coil does not have to rotate with the field poles as is done on a conventional alternator design. This then again does not mean that the rotating field poles are grabbing and rotating field lines from the magnet as was remotely considered in the first example. Rather they are only a rotating path of least reluctance. Nevertheless the function serves the purpose of introducing flux change across the steel segments internal to the field output windings< thus producing a novel approach to electrical generation. More specific to Bob Gray's remark on the third case, I posted a case where A DC current introduced into the center of a neodymium magnet floating on mercury as a current return path WOULD rotate that magnet. I theorized that this was due to the current paths at right angles to that magnets field lines. Although people will be looking for a missing reaction force to explain that occurence, all I can say is that I made that observation as an experimental fact. This is not what Mr. Gray is asking about, but it provides an answer to the inverse circumstance. HDN Binary Resonant System http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 _______________________________________________________ Visit Excite Shopping at http://shopping.excite.com The fastest way to find your Holiday gift this season From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 27 01:02:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA09291; Mon, 27 Dec 1999 01:02:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 01:02:32 -0800 Message-ID: <21986738.946285220342.JavaMail.imail@bronty> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 01:00:20 -0800 (PST) From: Harvey D Norris Reply-To: To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Still going Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 199.174.178.180 Resent-Message-ID: <"tmThC1.0.-G2.eioPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13368 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 26 Dec 1999 20:13:51 -0500, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: By trying > electrolysis without electrodes one might find a way to generate free > energy. Another consideration is that at least one on the list, Emmett, > has tried to use AC for electrolysis and found that it produced no gas > (not in a controlled experiment, this point needs looking into). > > There's still a lot of research to do, and complaning about criticism, an > essential aspect of the scientific method, isn't going to promote it. > -Tom Grimes How many times have I heard this, has tried electrolysis with AC to no avail. Lots of things need to be said about this. The puharich patent is the most sensible approach, the Meyer patent too obscure. The first problem everyone has is they dont understand AC to begin with. If the separate concepts of the resonant rise of amperage in a tank circuit; and the resonant rise of voltage in series resonance can be distinguished and known in their actions, there is light at the end of the tunnel. To accomplish water shattering via means of excitation of tetrahedral resonances of water molecules is theorized in Puharich Patent. But those magical frequency numbers do not contain all the information needed. A kind of high voltage pulse to disassociate the molecule and then disable conduction may be needed. Thats where the knowledge of resonance is needed in an entirely different respect, in the design of the circuit necessary to send these high voltage pulses, and immediately quench them. The first thing that is necessary is that the electrolysisor be part of a resonant circuit, specifically within a tank circuit. A tank circuit has more volume of amperage internally than is taken as a source input.It is the amperage factor that is important in elctrolysisor production of gases, not the voltage, or so it is said. But if the voltage can be pulsed, this added input may change those conditions. The second condition is that the electrolysisor recieve this voltage pulse from resonance; from Q times the resonant rise of input voltage experienced by the same tank circuit practically instantaneously converted to series resonance by means of a special switching mechanism employing an arc gap. This rapid oscillation of reactances from a zero value to its maximum impedance value can supply these rapidly quenched high voltage pulses. The next situation is to determine if those pulses can be made at the desired frequency, in which I already have a means of producing within 3% of these tetrahedral resonances named by Puharich. This frequency of 31,250 hz was made on a set of large inductors by the previous method of using an arc gap to achieve a parametric oscillation of reactances, to coin that term if it is permissable. In all of the above discussion, I have not even mentioned the most important point, how do we conceptualize AC magnetic and electric fields from 2 90 degree phased inputs each placed into this kind of special resonance oscillation and THEN interacted BETWEEN the phases. This is what I have been saying for over a year, and then thats why you need a specially constructed generator to proove it. These generators operate at 360 hz, giving the coil system a Q OF 29. The coil system is also designed to produce a standing wave near the desired frequency, and to also be able to pass the amperages needed for electrolysis. Hope to have some success by spring. HDN > > Binary Resonant System http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 _______________________________________________________ Visit Excite Shopping at http://shopping.excite.com The fastest way to find your Holiday gift this season From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 27 04:58:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA00472; Mon, 27 Dec 1999 04:58:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 04:58:04 -0800 Message-ID: <3866BAD7.F2A0D5BE@servtech.com> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 20:03:20 -0500 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Looking for Reference References: <38662728.59DD@cyberportal.net> <386596B1.84BB8A40@servtech.com> <3866007A.85C1542C@servtech.com> <3866B541.78F3D631@csrlink.net> <38662F1B.DEDF9528@serv tech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IjH462.0.H7.S9sPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13369 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > On Sun, 26 Dec 1999 10:07:07 -0500, Robert Gray wrote: > [snip] > >In motor and generator construction, its my understanding that they work because > >of changes in magnetic flux in coils. So whether the magnet rotates of the coils > >rotate makes little difference because with any rotation, in these designs, there > >is a change of magnetic flux in the coils. > > > >This is not the situation I am refering to. No coils. No change of flux. Constant > >magnet field strength. Minimum self inductance (single straight wire. No loops). > > Even a single straight wire moving through a field is subject to a change in > flux. In fact this describes exactly what happens to each wire in the > windings of a motor. > > > > >If the magnet moves, is there an induced electron movement in the stationary > >wire? > > Yes. Happens in both motors and generators. You can do it yourself, just > grab a coil of wire, tie the ends to a meter, and wave a magnet close to it. > You will see the meter change with your hand movements. > No. Not for the case I am talking about. You are correct in what you say but it doesn't apply to the setup I am talking about. I am talking about the wire being in a *uniform* magnetic field. And if you move the magnet, the field that the wire is in is still uniform. You seem to be talking about the wire being in a non-uniform field. When you write "...grab a coil..." that is, again, *not* what I am talking about. I am talking about a single straight wire. No loops. No coil. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 27 06:52:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA26521; Mon, 27 Dec 1999 06:52:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 06:52:24 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 09:27:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Still going Message-ID: <19991227.094717.-424285.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1,3,5-10,18-22 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WhrxS.0.IU6.eqtPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13370 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Huh! Both water and the gasses are neutral, and contain the same number of >electrons. Nothing has been added or taken away in total. All the passage of >the current does, is transfer electrons from the negative "oxygen ions" to >the positive "hydrogen ions" resulting in neutral gasses. >(Oxygen only has 6 valence electrons, the other two are in the K shell). >Regards, >Robin van Spaandonk Maybe my ignorance is showing: I've only taken a semester of college-level general chemistry, and some independent studying. What is a K shell? As someone else on the list, a while ago, mentioned in a post that electrons need to be supplied, I drew the Lewis structures for H2O, H2, and O2 and counted the valence electrons. The sum of the products, H2 and O2, is quite definitely more than the sum of the reactants, H2O. Just because both the reactants and products are neutral does not imply that they have the same number of electrons. -Tom Grimes ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 27 06:52:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA26550; Mon, 27 Dec 1999 06:52:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 06:52:28 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 09:47:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Still going Message-ID: <19991227.094717.-424285.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2,4,6-8,11-13,15,17,19,21,23,25-27,31-33,35-36,38-39,41,43,45,47-49,55-57,59,61,63,65-68,78-79 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2ptDf.0.jU6.hqtPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13371 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com (from Michael Johnston) > Actually my thought was to circulate the water in such a way that the ions >from one side would re-unite with the ions from the other side. You would >have to do it in a way that didn't disturb the production of gasses at your >electrodes but it's not hard to imagine several ways to do it. One of the points I was trying to make is that, unless you can find a way to supply electrons, no gasses at all will be evolved whether you circulate the ions or not. > I'm getting >another "chapter" ready in which an example of such a generator is depicted >along with addressing most major mechanical difficulties that I can forsee in >it's construction. I am not going to post it until I actually, personally do >the experiment as outlined in the "Experiment #1" paper. I haven't had time >to get to it yet. Even if that doesn't go as planned I have several more ways >to explore. One is by using proximity induction with an electromagnet and >wrapping my iron tubing around an iron core. In other words, doing just exactly what I said and using an electromagnet as the primary of a transformer. Unless you mean that a steady magnetic field will promote greater efficiency, which I think is an interesting point to test. > One would think that, since AC changes polarity regularly, what would >happen is that the polarity of your electrodes would also change polarity at >the same rate (60 times per second) and alternately produce H2 and O2 so >therefore if this was happening sixty times a second (as with 60 cycle AC) >then the result would perhaps be that either it is cycling too fast to >produce gas or, more interestingly (to my way of thinking), the H2 and O2 >produced would never get past the second step in the disassociation process >and be rendered into ions which would then reunite with the ions created in >the next cycle and it all would happen right at the surface of the electrodes >so that no gas production would be visable. Harvey D. Norris wrote a lengthy post on this matter. I did not quite comprehend it, but it certainly would shed some light here for me if I did. It seems that AC cannot be considered merely in terms of DC that just changes direction. Because I do not have access to the resources necessary to experiment with AC electrolysis, I will leave that to others. > Actually I got kicked off keelynet for responding to a critic so I am >trying to be polite and careful with what I do. For example someone tried to >claim that water is such a good insulator that he had hosed down 60,000 volt >lines in a power plant with a one inch fire hose with no ill effects. I could >have told him that he must have been well insulated or just suggested that if >he was right then he should have no qualms about taking a piss on that >line.hehe...see what I mean? MJ Kicked of for responding to a critic?! If you were kicked off here for that, I would be the first to complain to the moderator. I remember the post about the high-tension power line. If the writer is communicating his own experience, it is extremely unwise to gainsay him on less than rock-solid grounds and you must still explain the phenomenon. Pure water IS a very, very good insulator. Also, if the water is moving fast enough, then what ions are present in the water would be forced downstream and, perhaps, unable to propagate the electric current (no pun intended, really) upstream. As far as your last comment: shame on you for suggesting that! -Tom Grimes ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 27 11:39:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA13097; Mon, 27 Dec 1999 11:39:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 11:39:04 -0800 Message-ID: <3867C091.4D511A13@info2000.net> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 12:40:01 -0700 From: Ted Reply-To: tsleber@info2000.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Merry Christmas All References: <003b01bf4d5d$699f2d40$56e135ca@xplornote> <4.2.0.58.19991224125021.00abd7a0@pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"msGsI2.0.RC3.N1yPu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13372 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com You'll have to wait twelve months to see what the new millenium will bring. Have a great year 2000. Ted From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 27 17:19:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA12512; Mon, 27 Dec 1999 17:18:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 17:18:58 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Looking for Reference Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 12:18:48 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <38662728.59DD@cyberportal.net> <386596B1.84BB8A40@servtech.com> <3866007A.85C1542C@servtech.com> <3866B541.78F3D631@csrlink.net> <38662F1B.DEDF9528@serv tech.com> <3866BAD7.F2A0D5BE@servtech.com> In-Reply-To: <3866BAD7.F2A0D5BE@servtech.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA12478 Resent-Message-ID: <"kTH-t1.0.E33.101Qu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13373 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 26 Dec 1999 20:03:20 -0500, Robert Gray wrote: [snip] >No. Not for the case I am talking about. You are correct in what you say but it doesn't > >apply to the setup I am talking about. Yes it does. >I am talking about the wire being in a *uniform* >magnetic field. So am I. >And if you move the magnet, the field that the wire is in is still >uniform. You seem to be talking about the wire being in a non-uniform field. No. Even a non-uniform field is by approximation uniform, if you look at a sufficiently small section of it. In fact motors and generators are usually engineered to ensure that the field is as uniform as possible. >When you write "...grab a coil..." that is, again, *not* what I am talking about. >I am talking about a single straight wire. No loops. No coil. The only difference between a loop and a straight wire, is that the latter "looks" simpler to the human being doing the experiment. Nature couldn't care less. The root of the word circuit is "circle" or loop. You can't have a complete circuit to test without having a loop, even if part of that loop comprises a straight wire. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 27 17:35:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA19742; Mon, 27 Dec 1999 17:34:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 17:34:58 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Still going Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 12:34:51 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <854g6ss4p1pg7bk4qchf7ve39urniclf2q@4ax.com> References: <19991227.094717.-424285.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <19991227.094717.-424285.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA19700 Resent-Message-ID: <"nvh0Y2.0.Iq4.2F1Qu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13374 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 27 Dec 1999 09:27:02 -0500, tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: >>Huh! Both water and the gasses are neutral, and contain the same number >of >>electrons. Nothing has been added or taken away in total. All the >passage of >>the current does, is transfer electrons from the negative "oxygen ions" >to >>the positive "hydrogen ions" resulting in neutral gasses. >>(Oxygen only has 6 valence electrons, the other two are in the K shell). >>Regards, >>Robin van Spaandonk > >Maybe my ignorance is showing: I've only taken a semester of >college-level general chemistry, and some independent studying. What is >a K shell? A K shell is the innermost electron shell of atoms. It contains at most 2 electrons. For hydrogen it isn't full, only having 1 electron. For helium it is filled, and as helium also only has two electrons in total, it is therefore a noble gas (outermost or valence shell is full). Oxygen has 8 electrons, 2 in the K shell, and 6 in the next shell up, which is the L shell (or valence shell in this case). Because it only has 6 in the valence shell, it can take another 2 to complete this shell making it into a "pretend" noble gas with 8 electrons in the valence shell. It is then O-- (i.e. an ion with a charge of -2). This is why oxygen in ionic form almost always has a charge of "-2". (All atoms when forming ions tend to strive toward the structure of the nearest noble gas, in the case of oxygen, that is neon). >As someone else on the list, a while ago, mentioned in a post >that electrons need to be supplied, I drew the Lewis structures for H2O, >H2, and O2 and counted the valence electrons. The sum of the products, >H2 and O2, is quite definitely more than the sum of the reactants, H2O. >Just because both the reactants and products are neutral does not imply >that they have the same number of electrons. Given that the number of protons in the nuclei don't change, it does mean that they have the same number of electrons, otherwise the electron and proton charges wouldn't balance, and you would have ions, not neutral atoms. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 27 18:03:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA13472; Mon, 27 Dec 1999 18:03:07 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 18:03:07 -0800 (PST) From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Still going Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 12:59:45 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <385g6sssvt8d9ssf4vcmamklusmkv6tai4@4ax.com> References: <19991227.094717.-424285.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <19991227.094717.-424285.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id SAA13454 Resent-Message-ID: <"kuN_51.0.PI3.Qf1Qu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13375 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 27 Dec 1999 09:47:13 -0500, tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: [snip] >One of the points I was trying to make is that, unless you can find a way >to supply electrons, no gasses at all will be evolved whether you >circulate the ions or not. When you "supply electrons", the net effect is to transfer electrons from one ion to another, by intervention of an external medium, i.e. all electrons supplied at one electrode, are removed at the other (having been supplied to one type of ion, and removed from a different type in equal number). [snip] >> One would think that, since AC changes polarity regularly, what would >>happen is that the polarity of your electrodes would also change >polarity at >>the same rate (60 times per second) and alternately produce H2 and O2 so >>therefore if this was happening sixty times a second (as with 60 cycle >AC) >>then the result would perhaps be that either it is cycling too fast to >>produce gas or, more interestingly (to my way of thinking), the H2 and >O2 >>produced would never get past the second step in the disassociation >process >>and be rendered into ions which would then reunite with the ions created >in >>the next cycle and it all would happen right at the surface of the >electrodes >>so that no gas production would be visable. > >Harvey D. Norris wrote a lengthy post on this matter. I did not quite >comprehend it, but it certainly would shed some light here for me if I >did. It seems that AC cannot be considered merely in terms of DC that >just changes direction. Because I do not have access to the resources >necessary to experiment with AC electrolysis, I will leave that to >others. I think you will find that with no electrodes present, no gas will be produced at all with AC. This can be deduced, by considering the fact that in normal electrolysis cells, gas is produced at the electrodes, not in between (i.e. passage of a current alone is insufficient). A physical barrier where ions can be neutralised is needed. Anyone with evidence to the contrary, please speak up. [snip] >rock-solid grounds and you must still explain the phenomenon. Pure water >IS a very, very good insulator. Also, if the water is moving fast >enough, then what ions are present in the water would be forced >downstream and, perhaps, unable to propagate the electric current (no pun >intended, really) upstream. I wouldn't count on it! ;) The rate at which the signal is propagated through the stream, is actually the rate of voltage propagation, and is near the speed of light. Just like a wire, the stream contains ions throughout it's length, and signal propagation doesn't rely on the physical passage of a particular ion through the stream, just on each giving it's neighbour an electrical "nudge". The last one at the end of the line "falls off". [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 28 10:50:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA02533; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 10:50:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 10:50:16 -0800 Message-ID: <017101bf5163$9308c1a0$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 10:44:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"VpHAY3.0.Td.dPGQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13376 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com There's another possible energy source which come's into play when you accelate the explosion: Whenever the temperature and pressure are high enough, say right at the shock wave, another "Fuel" will ignite that may add to the boom significantly. Nitrogen and oxygen. If the explosion is sharp enough to trigger this then the shockwave will not go down exponetially like it normally does. This could make a real big boom without the energy coming from nuclear reactions. This also would only work in a normal atmosphere. Has anyone ever heard of huge amounts of nitrous-oxide being left afterwards? scottb -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, December 26, 1999 4:48 PM Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification >On Sat, 25 Dec 1999 23:33:55 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > >>U-235 and Radium are catalysts that speed up chemical reactions. >>For example; one ton of T.N.T. can be made to give up its' >>energy in a shorter span of time. Making a hiroshima type >>explosion. In this example the illusion is given that more >>energy has been released. >[snip] >I'm afraid that in this case it is indeed largely an illusion. You won't get >1 ton to do the work of 20000 tons, no matter how fast you make it explode. > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 28 12:34:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA32040; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 12:34:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 12:34:49 -0800 Message-ID: <38691F30.23B39C92@microtec.net> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 15:36:00 -0500 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification References: <017101bf5163$9308c1a0$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Mm6iF.0.Xq7.exHQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13377 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Yes, but I doubt it's because nitrogen and oxygen played a role in the energy of the explosion. I suppose it's because of the huge heat that nitrous-oxide is formed. but you give me an idea. if it's true that nitrogen and oxygen can be combined to release energy. then why don't they make nitrogen/oxyen engines for airplanes, that way airliners would not need to carry fuel. skot wrote: > There's another possible energy source which come's into play when you accelate > the explosion: > Whenever the temperature and pressure are high enough, say right at the shock > wave, another "Fuel" will ignite that may add to the boom significantly. > Nitrogen and oxygen. If the explosion is sharp enough to trigger this then the > shockwave will not go down exponetially like it normally does. > > This could make a real big boom without the energy coming from nuclear > reactions. This also would only work in a normal atmosphere. > > Has anyone ever heard of huge amounts of nitrous-oxide being left afterwards? > > scottb > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robin van Spaandonk > To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com > Date: Sunday, December 26, 1999 4:48 PM > Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification > > >On Sat, 25 Dec 1999 23:33:55 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > > > >>U-235 and Radium are catalysts that speed up chemical reactions. > >>For example; one ton of T.N.T. can be made to give up its' > >>energy in a shorter span of time. Making a hiroshima type > >>explosion. In this example the illusion is given that more > >>energy has been released. > >[snip] > >I'm afraid that in this case it is indeed largely an illusion. You won't get > >1 ton to do the work of 20000 tons, no matter how fast you make it explode. > > > >Regards, > > > >Robin van Spaandonk > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 28 12:57:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA07375; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 12:57:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 12:57:05 -0800 Message-ID: <000d01bf5175$fc6d2ca0$26a0fea9@FS11> From: "techlab" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Command Center Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 14:55:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"Q7sTi3.0.1p1.WGIQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13378 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Why has the tax payer footed the bill for a $50 million dollar federal command center if everyone is Y2K ready? Should one take the description of Command Center as meaningful and did the spin doctors spin it wrong and it should have been called a Monitoring Center? The only reason I even dare say anything on this subject is a conversation with a person that had a dam scary take on what might happen. No he was not a white supremacist or militia member. With all the hype, talk and preparation I'm starting to get depressed and if all this is spin and hype what a let down come 1/2/00. Rex A. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 28 13:42:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA24308; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 13:42:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 13:42:11 -0800 Message-ID: <38692EED.3B83@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 16:43:09 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: "New Explosive Beats TNT" (1916) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rKr2o.0.dx5.owIQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13379 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com MIGHTIER than TNT, high-power explosive, is a new light-green powder known as "radium-atomite" recently demonstrated at the California Institute of Technology, of which radium is said to be one important ingredient. In the tests shown here, representatives of powder companies, and of the Institute. Reserve Officers' Training Corps, saw small charges of the new powder, of TNT, and of dynamite—a third of an ounce of each—placed in separate 1 pound lead jars and exploded. This showed the radium powder’s explosive power, measured by the expansion of gases, far greater than that of its competitors. Capt. H. R. Zimmer, Los Angeles chemist and former Army officer, who invented the new explosive, did not permit Institute chemists to analyze it. He said the U. S. War Department might wish to keep its composition a secret. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 28 14:25:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA05360; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 14:25:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 14:25:43 -0800 Message-ID: <018f01bf5181$a9bb03e0$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 14:19:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"AhCiR.0.TJ1.cZJQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13380 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com If a cubic mile of it burned it could put thermal in "thermal-nuclear" Recently I've become convinced that all those stories of runaway diesel engines are actually caused by burning nitrogen. They say "it was running on the motor oil" or something else and would quit in a few seconds but this is never verified because they kill it to keep it from getting ruined. What usually happens is that a diesel will overspeed when it has been working hard and the fuel runs out. Choking the air kills it OR resuming fuel flow resumes normal operation. If you thinks this sounds weird, look on a large detroit diesel and you'll see an air kill switch ( valve ). I've serously looked into this and found that the main problem is the left over nos. It's very hard to get rid of. It's best use is to use it as oxygen for burning more traditional fuel. Most any diesel engine could be modified to burn air for fuel ( probably have to raise the compression a little to get it the process going easier... ) scottb -----Original Message----- From: patrick tremblay To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 12:31 PM Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification >Yes, > >but I doubt it's because nitrogen and oxygen played a role in the energy of the >explosion. I suppose it's because of the huge heat that nitrous-oxide is formed. > >but you give me an idea. if it's true that nitrogen and oxygen can be combined to >release energy. then why don't they make nitrogen/oxyen engines for airplanes, that >way airliners would not need to carry fuel. > >skot wrote: > >> There's another possible energy source which come's into play when you accelate >> the explosion: >> Whenever the temperature and pressure are high enough, say right at the shock >> wave, another "Fuel" will ignite that may add to the boom significantly. >> Nitrogen and oxygen. If the explosion is sharp enough to trigger this then the >> shockwave will not go down exponetially like it normally does. >> >> This could make a real big boom without the energy coming from nuclear >> reactions. This also would only work in a normal atmosphere. >> >> Has anyone ever heard of huge amounts of nitrous-oxide being left afterwards? >> >> scottb >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robin van Spaandonk >> To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com >> Date: Sunday, December 26, 1999 4:48 PM >> Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification >> >> >On Sat, 25 Dec 1999 23:33:55 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: >> > >> >>U-235 and Radium are catalysts that speed up chemical reactions. >> >>For example; one ton of T.N.T. can be made to give up its' >> >>energy in a shorter span of time. Making a hiroshima type >> >>explosion. In this example the illusion is given that more >> >>energy has been released. >> >[snip] >> >I'm afraid that in this case it is indeed largely an illusion. You won't get >> >1 ton to do the work of 20000 tons, no matter how fast you make it explode. >> > >> >Regards, >> > >> >Robin van Spaandonk >> > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 28 16:19:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA04488; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 16:19:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 16:19:06 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 11:18:56 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <017101bf5163$9308c1a0$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> In-Reply-To: <017101bf5163$9308c1a0$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA04450 Resent-Message-ID: <"T60_i.0.161.vDLQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13381 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 28 Dec 1999 10:44:28 -0800, skot wrote: >There's another possible energy source which come's into play when you accelate >the explosion: >Whenever the temperature and pressure are high enough, say right at the shock >wave, another "Fuel" will ignite that may add to the boom significantly. >Nitrogen and oxygen. This isn't a fuel. You have to add energy to nitrogen and oxygen to get them to combine. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 28 16:31:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA09950; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 16:31:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 16:31:55 -0800 Message-ID: <01a501bf5193$4b570620$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 16:26:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"IbUb83.0.HR2.wPLQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13382 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com How come it takes so much effort to take them apart again? I think it is a fuel but like any it takes a certain pressure and temperature to start the process, really high it the case of nitrogen, but it explains runaway diesels scottb -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 4:15 PM Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification >On Tue, 28 Dec 1999 10:44:28 -0800, skot wrote: > >>There's another possible energy source which come's into play when you accelate >>the explosion: >>Whenever the temperature and pressure are high enough, say right at the shock >>wave, another "Fuel" will ignite that may add to the boom significantly. >>Nitrogen and oxygen. >This isn't a fuel. You have to add energy to nitrogen and oxygen to get them >to combine. > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 28 17:16:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA21205; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:16:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:16:13 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 12:16:05 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <01a501bf5193$4b570620$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> In-Reply-To: <01a501bf5193$4b570620$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA21178 Resent-Message-ID: <"J6N-p.0.EB5.T3MQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13383 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 28 Dec 1999 16:26:04 -0800, skot wrote: >How come it takes so much effort to take them apart again? I >think it is a fuel but like any it takes a certain pressure >and temperature to start the process, really high it the >case of nitrogen, but it explains runaway diesels > > scottb If it were a fuel, then any high temperature spark would cause the entire atmosphere of the planet to explode, and you wouldn't be here. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 28 17:51:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA12911; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:51:03 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:51:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: RE: Another Attempt to Clarification Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:36:55 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"DmqSg3.0.U93.3aMQu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13384 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Robin and all, Anomalous energy effects in N2 were reported by Rayleigh in experiments he did in the late 1940s. He found that ionization with RF induction released far more heat energy than could be explained by the input energy. Sheets of metal exposed to the activated nitrogen would vaporize. Recently Peter Graneau stated that under certain conditions arcs could align molecules so that attraction forces were nullified, and natural repulsive forces would take over. He used this to explain anomalous water arc phenomena, but he did mention N2 as a substance that would also do this. In short it is possible to get energy from substances without decomposing them. The energy available in water arc explosions without electrolysis is much higher than that available in arc with electrolysis. I am not a chemist so I can't take it much further than this... Fred > -----Original Message----- > From: Robin van Spaandonk [mailto:rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au] > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 5:16 PM > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification > > > On Tue, 28 Dec 1999 16:26:04 -0800, skot wrote: > > >How come it takes so much effort to take them apart again? I > >think it is a fuel but like any it takes a certain pressure > >and temperature to start the process, really high it the > >case of nitrogen, but it explains runaway diesels > > > > scottb > If it were a fuel, then any high temperature spark would cause the entire > atmosphere of the planet to explode, and you wouldn't be here. > > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 28 19:52:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA32615; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 19:52:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 19:52:39 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:52:32 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA32598 Resent-Message-ID: <"TvYA41.0.Wz7.7MOQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13385 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:36:55 -0800, Fred Epps wrote: >Hi Robin and all, > >Anomalous energy effects in N2 were reported by Rayleigh in experiments he >did in the late 1940s. He found that ionization with RF induction released >far more heat energy than could be explained by the input energy. Sheets of >metal exposed to the activated nitrogen would vaporize. Recently Peter >Graneau stated that under certain conditions arcs could align molecules so >that attraction forces were nullified, and natural repulsive forces would >take over. He used this to explain anomalous water arc phenomena, but he >did mention N2 as a substance that would also do this. >In short it is possible to get energy from substances without decomposing >them. The energy available in water arc explosions without electrolysis is >much higher than that available in arc with electrolysis. I am not a >chemist so I can't take it much further than this... > >Fred My previous comments stand as self evident (i.e. the source of any putative energy is not nitrogen-oxygen combustion), however it may be possible for a Mills style catalytic reaction to occur in the presence of certain metals at high temperature. The reports of the unexpected energy release are of about the right magnitude (from 10 to 1000 times more than expected). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 28 20:08:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA06097; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 20:08:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 20:08:24 -0800 Message-ID: <38698934.5A102D57@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 20:08:20 -0800 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-L@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: "New Explosive Beats TNT" (1916) References: <38692EED.3B83@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7qanG2.0.AV1.saOQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13386 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com "Bruce A. Perreault" wrote: > MIGHTIER than TNT, high-power explosive, is a new > light-green powder known as "radium-atomite" recently > demonstrated at the California Institute of Technology, > of which radium is said to be one important ingredient. > In the tests shown here, representatives of powder > companies, and of the Institute. > > Reserve Officers' Training Corps, saw small charges of > the new powder, of TNT, and of dynamite—a third of an > ounce of each—placed in separate 1 pound lead jars and > exploded. This showed the radium powder’s explosive power, > measured by the expansion of gases, far greater than that > of its competitors. > > Capt. H. R. Zimmer, Los Angeles chemist and former Army officer, > who invented the new explosive, did not permit Institute chemists > to analyze it. He said the U. S. War Department might wish to keep > its composition a secret. Simply *amazing*! Would you mind telling us the source for this bit of history? Quite honestly, both TNT and dynamite require percussive shock and heat to be detonated. They will burn quite actively, but not explode if simply lighted with a match - I've done this. As for using radium in a conventional explosive mixture - gawd! What a nightmare! I cant think of more irresponsible misuse of chemical knowledge. The stuff will cause serious cancer if inhaled, matbe thats why they never commercialized it. Cheers! -Erik From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 28 21:59:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA08482; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 21:59:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 21:59:18 -0800 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5 Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 21:58:32 -0800 From: "Tim Ventura" To: Subject: Railgun Website Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA08461 Resent-Message-ID: <"wWzqP2.0.R42.sCQQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13387 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear Weird Science List: For all of your enjoyment, I just published a 50 page website on the railgun and gauss rifle that I built prototypes for between 1994 and 1996. I've included about a quarter of my total research--located at the URL: http://electrogravity.hypermart.net/railgun/index.html Any questions, comments? Tim Ventura From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 28 22:23:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA14298; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 22:23:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 22:23:56 -0800 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.2 on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <018f01bf5181$a9bb03e0$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 22:26:22 -0800 (PST) Sender: jim@eskimo.com From: Jim Richardson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Resent-Message-ID: <"Yd2sV3.0.EV3.yZQQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13388 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 28-Dec-1999 skot wrote: > If a cubic mile of it burned it could put thermal in > "thermal-nuclear" > > > Recently I've become convinced that all those stories of > runaway diesel engines > are actually caused by burning nitrogen. They say "it was > running on the motor > oil" or something else and would quit in a few seconds but > this is never > verified because they kill it to keep it from getting > ruined. Sorry to bust your bubble, but it is the motor oil. I've seen the carcass of an engine that wasn't shut down in time. The only way to shut down a diesel in this mode is to choke the air off, and given the vacuum that a runaway diesel can pull, well, I ain't holding my hand over the intake...  Jim Richardson Anarchist, pagan and proud of it WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 00:19:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA04073; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 00:19:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 00:19:44 -0800 From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: RE: Another Attempt to Clarification Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 00:08:33 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"jh3a32.0.W_.WGSQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13389 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Robin, Yes, the phenomena does happen but Graneau is just guessing with his theory about where the energy comes from. It could be some hydrino thing or it could be something nobody has thought of. All that is for sure is that it exists. There is plenty of O/U arc stuff around, that's certain. Fred > My previous comments stand as self evident (i.e. the source of > any putative > energy is not nitrogen-oxygen combustion), however it may be > possible for a > Mills style catalytic reaction to occur in the presence of > certain metals at > high temperature. The reports of the unexpected energy release > are of about > the right magnitude (from 10 to 1000 times more than expected). > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 06:29:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA25652; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 06:29:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 06:29:25 -0800 Message-ID: <386A1A5E.1897@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 09:27:42 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eks1@earthlink.net CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "New Explosive Beats TNT" (1916) References: <38692EED.3B83@cyberportal.net> <38698934.5A102D57@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yJ7GN2.0.jG6.5hXQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13390 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com eks1 wrote: > > > Simply *amazing*! Would you mind telling us the source for this bit of > history? Rex Research. :) > > Quite honestly, both TNT and dynamite require percussive shock > and heat to be detonated. They will burn quite actively, but > not explode if simply lighted with a match - I've done this. What do you think is used in the A-bomb to ignite it? > > As for using radium in a conventional explosive mixture - gawd! > What a nightmare! I cant think of more irresponsible misuse of > chemical knowledge. The stuff will cause serious cancer if inhaled, > maybe thats why they never commercialized it. They did not know that you could get cancer from radon gas back then. It never got commercialized because it was classified and they used the principle in the nuke bombs. They then made up a bullshit theory to explain how it works. I do not pretend to have all the answers. I may not be 100% correct with my theories but at least I know that I am on the right track. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 07:12:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA09575; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 07:12:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 07:12:19 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 10:07:30 -0500 Subject: Regarding Robin van Spaandonk's latest posts Message-ID: <19991229.100735.-437407.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oAHgL1.0.WL2.IJYQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13391 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thanks for setting me straight. -Tom Grimes ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 07:30:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA15714; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 07:30:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 07:30:49 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 10:25:34 -0500 Subject: Re: "New Explosive Beats TNT" (1916) Message-ID: <19991229.102537.-437407.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,17-18 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QerOo2.0.Mr3.eaYQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13392 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >They did not know that you could get cancer from radon gas back then. >It never got commercialized because it was classified and they used >the principle in the nuke bombs. They then made up a bullshit theory >to explain how it works. This is not "up my alley," so to speak, so I am not arguing your theories. However, it does seem pretty illogical that, since the current conventional theories work so well, these theories (or models, if you prefer) are, as you say, "b---s---." Are they not just models? Don't many scientists (at least the reasonable ones) concede that their theories may not truly be reality, but just a good way of modeling and predicting certain behaviour? If what you propose is a better model, a better theory, then I am glad you have advanced the state of the art. However, it is not reasonable of you to so defame the current ideas and promote huge conspiracy theories (i.e. the government is trying to hide what they really know from us...) without very solid proof. I keep waiting for you to say you have been abducted by aliens and they revealed their secrets to you. -Tom Grimes ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 08:07:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA31221; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 08:06:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 08:06:59 -0800 Message-ID: <000401bf5216$b39e08e0$4ee135ca@xplornote> From: "xplorer" To: , Subject: RadioActive antenna Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 11:17:59 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"sSKqK.0.kd7.Z6ZQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13393 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I understand how this would operate, and I reckon I might be able to do it, assuming I can acquire any radioactive materials here. Any suggestions on what to try to get ? My brother-in-law is a geologist in gold-mining in Kalimantan, perhaps he could help me identify a good ore. Locally there are many volcanoes which might indicate, I guess, some interesting ores in this area. I do have a Geiger ticker, so I could perhaps go field-hunting. Or is there something I could purchase which could be refined into usable source ? I am assuming I want Alpha source as highest ease of voltage generation ??? -----Original Message----- From: Bruce A. Perreault To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: 1999 December 25, Saturday 20:07 Subject: Re: electricity from a magnet ! |Xplorer, | |Radioactive material placed near the ant. will |work without you a.c leakage. :) | | -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 08:21:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA07140; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 08:21:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 08:21:34 -0800 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 11:21:02 -0500 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 11:21:22 -0500 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 11:12:28 -0500 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: "New Explosive Beats TNT" (1916) In-reply-to: <386A1A5E.1897@cyberportal.net> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 11:21:00 -0500 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2353ZYGKG8IND X400-MTS-identifier: [;20121192219991/4356455@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"ECOWN2.0.Pl1.DKZQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13394 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bruce, Are you telling us, and any half baked terrorist or high school delinquent that might be listening, that you can make an A-bomb from a smoke detector & a pile of fire crackers? And this is somehow a BAD THING that the government DIDN'T tell us how to make our own private WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION? And this will somehow make you a saint, for opening this Pandora's Box? Bill webriggs@concentric.net briggs@XLNsystems.com >It never got commercialized because it was classified and they used >the principle in the nuke bombs. They then made up a bullshit theory >to explain how it works. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 10:35:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA21526; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 10:35:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 10:35:49 -0800 Message-ID: <01cc01bf522a$b4d930e0$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 10:29:56 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"dh_cI1.0.FG5.5IbQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13395 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I heard that before the first nuclear detonation they had concerns about the possibility of "igniting the earths atomsphere". They said they were pretty sure it wouldn't but not positive. For a long time I said, "How could you ignite air, air won't burn". It takes high pressure and high temperature. One of the main jobs of the O2 sensor feedback system in newer cars is to prevent the creation of NO because it is a pollutant. They do this by making sure there is no extra O2 to react with the nitrogen. If you take methane and put in a vacuum or get it too cold it will not burn. All combustion takes a mimumum pressure and temperature. scottb -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 5:12 PM Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification >On Tue, 28 Dec 1999 16:26:04 -0800, skot wrote: > >>How come it takes so much effort to take them apart again? I >>think it is a fuel but like any it takes a certain pressure >>and temperature to start the process, really high it the >>case of nitrogen, but it explains runaway diesels >> >> scottb >If it were a fuel, then any high temperature spark would cause the entire >atmosphere of the planet to explode, and you wouldn't be here. > > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 10:45:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA25253; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 10:45:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 10:45:39 -0800 Message-ID: <01d101bf522c$13b486e0$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 10:39:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"mRQk4.0.UA6.IRbQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13396 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I've heard of one other case where it happened and they were able to restore fuel flow and it slowed right down. Adding the liquid fuel cooled it so that the nitrogen wasn't hot enough to burn. Just because you saw a blown up engine doesn't mean that it was running on motor oil. It will fail because it is running way hotter and faster and with more ping then it can withstand. I didn't mean that a diesel can keep running forever like this. How long did it hand in there before it blew? I want to run one short of blowing and then shut it down and check it's oil! Unless the thing has bad oil rings on all cylinders, how would running out of fuel suddenly make it start blowing oil?! It would have to blow way more oil than the injectors normally inject fuel in order to rev that fast! scottb -----Original Message----- From: Jim Richardson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 10:20 PM Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification > >On 28-Dec-1999 skot wrote: >> If a cubic mile of it burned it could put thermal in >> "thermal-nuclear" >> >> >> Recently I've become convinced that all those stories of >> runaway diesel engines >> are actually caused by burning nitrogen. They say "it was >> running on the motor >> oil" or something else and would quit in a few seconds but >> this is never >> verified because they kill it to keep it from getting >> ruined. > >Sorry to bust your bubble, but it is the motor oil. I've seen the carcass of an >engine that wasn't shut down in time. The only way to shut down a diesel in >this mode is to choke the air off, and given the vacuum that a runaway diesel >can pull, well, I ain't holding my hand over the intake... > > >Jim Richardson > Anarchist, pagan and proud of it >WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock > Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 12:43:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA02461; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 12:43:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 12:43:45 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 07:43:39 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <01cc01bf522a$b4d930e0$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> In-Reply-To: <01cc01bf522a$b4d930e0$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id MAA02437 Resent-Message-ID: <"jQ1nl1.0.Mc.0AdQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13397 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 29 Dec 1999 10:29:56 -0800, skot wrote: >I heard that before the first nuclear detonation they had >concerns about the possibility of "igniting the earths >atomsphere". Correct, but the reaction they were afraid of igniting was a nuclear one, not a chemical one. >They said they were pretty sure it wouldn't but >not positive. For a long time I said, "How could you ignite >air, air won't burn". Correct, it won't (in the normal sense). > >It takes high pressure and high temperature. One of the main >jobs of the O2 sensor feedback system in newer cars is to >prevent the creation of NO because it is a pollutant. They >do this by making sure there is no extra O2 to react with >the nitrogen. It takes high pressure and temperature, because only under these circumstances is there enough energy available to push the reaction toward the formation of nitrogen oxides. Even then, only small quantities are formed. And yes, the problem is that it is a pollutant. > >If you take methane and put in a vacuum or get it too cold >it will not burn. All combustion takes a mimumum pressure >and temperature. > > scottb The sort of pressures and temperatures required for the formation of nitrogen oxides exist in and around lightning strokes, so during storms, some nitrogen oxides are formed. Note however, that despite their formation, no run-away reaction occurs (as would be the case were extra energy to be released in the process). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 13:26:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA06887; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:25:46 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:25:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001c01bf5242$1c8d3a80$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:17:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"gnAoR3.0.Mh1.MndQu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13398 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Just because I takes lightning temperatures or 10 atomospheres of pressure to cause the reaction doesn't mean that it doesn't release extra heat. Even if it put out twice the heat that the same amount of burning methane does, it would not cause a run-away reaction. It would have to be contained and fed fresh ( and heated air ) to continue. In a gasoline engine, even with the O2 sensor way out of wack, most of the oxygen is used by burning fuel so it can only produce small amounts. In a diesel engine it usually only runs away when it runs out of fuel and even then can only happen at large levels ( until all the O2 is used )because of it's high compression ( and the block is very hot ). scottb -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk > >The sort of pressures and temperatures required for the formation of >nitrogen oxides exist in and around lightning strokes, so during storms, >some nitrogen oxides are formed. Note however, that despite their formation, >no run-away reaction occurs (as would be the case were extra energy to be >released in the process). > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 13:46:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA27532; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:46:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:46:07 -0800 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.2 on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <01d101bf522c$13b486e0$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:48:31 -0800 (PST) Sender: jim@eskimo.com From: Jim Richardson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Resent-Message-ID: <"-TFIn.0.4k6.U4eQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13399 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 29-Dec-1999 skot wrote: > I've heard of one other case where it happened and they were > able to restore fuel flow and it slowed right down. Adding > the liquid fuel cooled it so that the nitrogen wasn't hot > enough to burn. > > Just because you saw a blown up engine doesn't mean that it > was running on motor oil. It will fail because it is running > way hotter and faster and with more ping then it can > withstand. I didn't mean that a diesel can keep running > forever like this. How long did it hand in there before it > blew? I want to run one short of blowing and then shut it > down and check it's oil! > > Unless the thing has bad oil rings on all cylinders, how > would running out of fuel suddenly make it start blowing > oil?! It would have to blow way more oil than the injectors > normally inject fuel in order to rev that fast! > > scottb > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Richardson > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Date: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 10:20 PM > Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification > > >> >>On 28-Dec-1999 skot wrote: >>> If a cubic mile of it burned it could put thermal in >>> "thermal-nuclear" >>> >>> >>> Recently I've become convinced that all those stories of >>> runaway diesel engines >>> are actually caused by burning nitrogen. They say "it was >>> running on the motor >>> oil" or something else and would quit in a few seconds > but >>> this is never >>> verified because they kill it to keep it from getting >>> ruined. >> >>Sorry to bust your bubble, but it is the motor oil. I've > seen the carcass of an >>engine that wasn't shut down in time. The only way to shut > down a diesel in >>this mode is to choke the air off, and given the vacuum > that a runaway diesel >>can pull, well, I ain't holding my hand over the intake... In a marine environment, when a diesel runs away it is often the result of taking seawater (or fresh for that matter) into the engine crankcase through a cracked cooling jacket. The oil floats above the ingested water, and blowby pushes some of it past the rings. In extreme cases, enough gets by to act as fuel, and run the engine. Worn rings can have the same effect, but typically the loss of compression due to the worn rings is enough to stop the runaway. Diesels are compression ignited (as I am sure you are aware) and will happily run on used motor oil, vegetable oil, WD40, hemp oil, probably rendered animal fat for that matter. We use WD40 as starting fluid for stubborn diesels, (ether is used for gasoline engines, but it's bad news for a diesel.) and you can run an engine that has no fuel in the system on a couple cans of WD40 until the fuel lines are purged of air, it's a lot quicker than bleeding the lines, although not all diesels appreciate this quick-n-dirty method. (speed is a big issue if you need the engine -now-, as can sometimes be the case off shore.) I would love to have an engine that ran on nitrogen, (as a fuel) but if you think that runaway diesels are doing this, then I suggest you dig deeper for the answer. Because a runaway will run until the air is choked off, the engine self destructs, or the oil is all gone. If you take away the N2, the thing will still run, until O2, oil or engine give out. Jim Richardson Anarchist, pagan and proud of it WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 14:00:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA11220; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:00:49 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:00:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.2 on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <01cc01bf522a$b4d930e0$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:00:17 -0800 (PST) Sender: jim@eskimo.com From: Jim Richardson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Resent-Message-ID: <"fc9GM.0.yk2.DIeQu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13400 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 29-Dec-1999 skot wrote: > I heard that before the first nuclear detonation they had > concerns about the possibility of "igniting the earths > atomsphere". They said they were pretty sure it wouldn't but > not positive. For a long time I said, "How could you ignite > air, air won't burn". They weren't worried that the air would ignite in the chemical sense, but that the nuclear reaction would work it's way down the periodic table happily splitting all the nuclei it came across. > It takes high pressure and high temperature. One of the main > jobs of the O2 sensor feedback system in newer cars is to > prevent the creation of NO because it is a pollutant. They > do this by making sure there is no extra O2 to react with > the nitrogen. yes, but remeber, the question isn't "will N react with O at some temp/pressure and stochiometric ratio" the question is "will the reaction be self sustaining and if so, will it produce a viable energy surplus. > If you take methane and put in a vacuum or get it too cold > it will not burn. All combustion takes a mimumum pressure > and temperature. > > sort of, when the methane/oxidizer mix drops below a certain density, (pressure) you cease to have a self sustaning reaction, if the ratio is wrong, the same thing happens. Jim Richardson Anarchist, pagan and proud of it WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.  From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 14:01:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA11272; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:00:59 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:00:59 -0800 (PST) MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 16:57:40 -0500 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 16:57:42 -0500 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 16:54:31 -0500 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification In-reply-to: <001c01bf5242$1c8d3a80$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 16:57:00 -0500 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2356ZYGKO8Q7L X400-MTS-identifier: [;04756192219991/4357447@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"qIi531.0.pl2.LIeQu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13401 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hey, That reminds me, anybody heard anything new about: GAMMA-RAY AND X-RAY events above thunderstorms are the most puzzling of all high-altitude electrical phenomena. Their existence was uncovered only recently by one of the instruments on the Compton Gamma Ray Observatory satellite (below), which showed gamma rays emanating from the direction of the earth. Gamma rays are usually taken as signatures of high-energy nuclear or cosmic sources and thus were not expected to be produced within the earth's atmosphere. In sprites, for example, electrons rarely reach energies above about 20 electron volts (the energy a single electron would gain when accelerated by a potential difference of 20 volts), whereas gamma rays require about one million electron volts. The discrepancy is the same as the difference between the energy of a chemical explosive and an atomic bomb. As is the case with blue jets, gamma-ray events are just now beginning to yield to scientific scrutiny. Future observations from satellites should help in this quest. Found at: http://www.scientificamerican.com/0897issue/0897mendebox6.html Bill webriggs@concentric.net briggs@XLNsystems.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 14:05:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA12261; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:05:18 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:05:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.2 on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <386A1A5E.1897@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:04:52 -0800 (PST) Sender: jim@eskimo.com From: Jim Richardson To: "Bruce A. Perreault" Subject: Re: "New Explosive Beats TNT" (1916) Cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, eks1@earthlink.net Resent-Message-ID: <"dJCzV2.0.Q_2.SMeQu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13402 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 29-Dec-1999 Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > eks1 wrote: >> >> >> Simply *amazing*! Would you mind telling us the source for this bit of >> history? > > > Rex Research. :) > > >> >> Quite honestly, both TNT and dynamite require percussive shock >> and heat to be detonated. They will burn quite actively, but >> not explode if simply lighted with a match - I've done this. > > > What do you think is used in the A-bomb to ignite it? > Well, I'll tell you that it ain't dynamite... >> >> As for using radium in a conventional explosive mixture - gawd! >> What a nightmare! I cant think of more irresponsible misuse of >> chemical knowledge. The stuff will cause serious cancer if inhaled, >> maybe thats why they never commercialized it. > > > They did not know that you could get cancer from radon gas back then. > It never got commercialized because it was classified and they used > the principle in the nuke bombs. They then made up a bullshit theory > to explain how it works. The theory isn't bullshit, it may or may not, be inaccurate, but It fits all the available data, and passes occams razor. > I do not pretend to have all the answers. I may not be 100% correct > with my theories but at least I know that I am on the right track. > How? Give me an experiment that I can do to validate your theory. Jim Richardson Anarchist, pagan and proud of it WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 14:06:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA04736; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:06:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:06:21 -0800 Message-ID: <386A861B.2C48@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 17:07:23 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "New Explosive Beats TNT" (1916) References: <19991229.102537.-437407.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jzEs02.0.v91.SNeQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13403 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tom, Their models are preventing the world from getting at a cheap source of energy. They have to be hiding it or they really don't know. If the latter then we are in sad shape -BAP tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: > > This is not "up my alley," so to speak, so I am not arguing your > theories. However, it does seem pretty illogical that, since the current > conventional theories work so well, these theories (or models, if you > prefer) are, as you say, "b---s---." Are they not just models? Don't > many scientists (at least the reasonable ones) concede that their > theories may not truly be reality, but just a good way of modeling and > predicting certain behaviour? If what you propose is a better model, a > better theory, then I am glad you have advanced the state of the art. > However, it is not reasonable of you to so defame the current ideas and > promote huge conspiracy theories (i.e. the government is trying to hide > what they really know from us...) without very solid proof. I keep > waiting for you to say you have been abducted by aliens and they revealed > their secrets to you. > > -Tom Grimes From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 14:14:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA09025; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:14:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:14:21 -0800 Message-ID: <386A87FC.2960@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 17:15:24 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: "New Explosive Beats TNT" (1916) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1xY4b1.0.fC2.xUeQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13404 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: > > Bruce, > > Are you telling us, and any half baked terrorist or high school delinquent > that might be listening, that you can make an A-bomb from a smoke detector > & a pile of fire crackers? No, you need radon gas. Smoke detector pellets do not emit this gas. How much does anyone really know about this gas? If they do they are not telling. I know for a fact that it is at the seat of many energy doorways. :) > > And this is somehow a BAD THING that the government DIDN'T tell us how to > make our own private WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION? I don't think that people would use this knowledge for destruction if it had not been kept from us back in the 1920s! The government is not my keeper. > > And this will somehow make you a saint, for opening this Pandora's Box? It will not make me a saint, or devil. The truth will free the people. Institutionalized slavery must be stopped! -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 14:15:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA09569; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:15:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:15:46 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:15:39 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <001c01bf5242$1c8d3a80$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> In-Reply-To: <001c01bf5242$1c8d3a80$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA09452 Resent-Message-ID: <"LQyyC2.0.9L2.HWeQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13405 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:17:28 -0800, skot wrote: >Just because I takes lightning temperatures or 10 >atomospheres of pressure to cause the reaction doesn't mean >that it doesn't release extra heat. Even if it put out twice >the heat that the same amount of burning methane does, it >would not cause a run-away reaction. It would have to be >contained and fed fresh ( and heated air ) to continue. That is precisely what would be available at the "flame front" if there were a flame front. I think I've said just about all there is to say on this topic skot, so you just go ahead and believe whatever you want to believe. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 14:18:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA11944; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:18:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:18:52 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 16:59:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Message-ID: <19991229.171345.-424539.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,9-12 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6onAj.0.Xw2.AZeQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13406 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 29 Dec 1999 10:29:56 -0800 "skot" writes: >If you take methane and put in a vacuum or get it too cold >it will not burn. All combustion takes a mimumum pressure >and temperature. On an interesting tangent, liquid methanol (or ethanol) exibits this. Only the vapors burn. You can ignite a beaker of alcohol and it will only burn on the surface (the vapor ignites, warming the liquid and releasing more vapor). It looks really neat when you pour it out onto a (fire proof) surface. -Tom Grimes ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 14:18:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA12010; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:18:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:18:58 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:18:51 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <001c01bf5242$1c8d3a80$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA11962 Resent-Message-ID: <"1N0pQ1.0.Px2.HZeQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13407 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 29 Dec 1999 16:54:31 -0500 (EDT), Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: >Hey, > >That reminds me, anybody heard anything new about: > >GAMMA-RAY AND X-RAY events above thunderstorms are the most puzzling of all >high-altitude electrical phenomena. Their existence was uncovered only >recently by one of the instruments on the Compton Gamma Ray Observatory >satellite (below), which showed gamma rays emanating from the direction of >the earth. Gamma rays are usually taken as signatures of high-energy >nuclear or cosmic sources and thus were not expected to be produced within >the earth's atmosphere. They show up in thunderstorms. Given that lightening is a common event in thunderstorms, and lightening strokes can involve voltages of millions of volts, it seems to me that lightening strokes can and should function as particle accelerators. So the production of a few gamma rays etc. shouldn't really be all that surprising in that light. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 14:32:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA17508; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:32:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:32:10 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "New Explosive Beats TNT" (1916) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:20:58 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <19991229.102537.-437407.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> <386A861B.2C48@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <386A861B.2C48@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA17440 Resent-Message-ID: <"mThiZ2.0.OH4.fleQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13408 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 29 Dec 1999 17:07:23 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: [snip] > If the latter then we are >in sad shape [snip] Now you have hit the nail on the head. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 14:43:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA17088; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:43:09 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:43:09 -0800 (PST) From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 17:35:10 -0500 Subject: Re: "New Explosive Beats TNT" (1916) Message-ID: <19991229.173512.-424539.2.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-6,26-27 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ki6Yg1.0.uA4.xveQu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13409 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 29 Dec 1999 17:07:23 -0500 "Bruce A. Perreault" writes: >Their models are preventing the world from getting at >a cheap source of energy. They have to be hiding it >or they really don't know. If the latter then we are >in sad shape. How so? I have never heard anyone claim that their theory is the ultimate truth and that we are to look for no other. If they did, the whole scientific community would reject them. It is only the mindset of students and researchers that would determine the truth of your statement above, not government conspiracy. There are many, many examples in history of scientific progress made in spite of (proven) establishment censorship: Galilleo, all the unknown doctors who salvaged skeletons from corpses to study skeletal anatomy even though it was prohibited by the Roman Catholic Church, other doctors who broke out of the "balance of humours" mindset, Guttenburg, the unknown inventors in ancient Assyria, etc. I am not a historian, so I cannot give pages and pages of examples (you wouldn't read them anyway). As far as the last comment goes, it is pretty plain that the first proposition is false. The second is probably true; an over-unity source of power has yet to be established. I know that last statement will probably draw me a lot of ire, but I stand by it. Why do we still use fossil and atomic fuels if we can get free energy? Since we can rule out conspiracy, I think it is safe to say we really don't know how to be more effecient. It is sad, but hopefully someone will come along and discover a PROVABLE, DEMONSTRATABLE source of free energy. I hope they don't have an over-inflated ego. -Tom Grimes ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 15:24:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA09823; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:24:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:24:18 -0800 Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 17:24:11 -0600 (CST) From: Zack Widup X-Sender: w9sz@bluestem To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification In-Reply-To: <01cc01bf522a$b4d930e0$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ostxe.0.NP2.XWfQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13410 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 29 Dec 1999, skot wrote: > I heard that before the first nuclear detonation they had > concerns about the possibility of "igniting the earths > atomsphere". They said they were pretty sure it wouldn't but > not positive. For a long time I said, "How could you ignite > air, air won't burn". > That was Oppenheimer. He came under a lot of fire later because he went ahead and did the testing despite thinking of the above "possibility". Nice guy. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 15:28:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA12649; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:28:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:28:53 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991229182541.007c8540@world.std.com> X-Sender: mica@world.std.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 18:25:41 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification In-Reply-To: References: <001c01bf5242$1c8d3a80$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"t3Yxw.0.S53.qafQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13411 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 04:54 PM 12/29/99 -0500, Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: >Hey, > >That reminds me, anybody heard anything new about: > >GAMMA-RAY AND X-RAY events above thunderstorms are the most puzzling of all >high-altitude electrical phenomena. Their existence was uncovered only >recently by one of the instruments on the Compton Gamma Ray Observatory >satellite (below), which showed gamma rays emanating from the direction of >the earth. Gamma rays are usually taken as signatures of high-energy >nuclear or cosmic sources and thus were not expected to be produced within >the earth's atmosphere. In sprites, for example, electrons rarely reach >energies above about 20 electron volts (the energy a single electron would >gain when accelerated by a potential difference of 20 volts), whereas gamma >rays require about one million electron volts. The discrepancy is the same >as the difference between the energy of a chemical explosive and an atomic >bomb. As is the case with blue jets, gamma-ray events are just now >beginning to yield to scientific scrutiny. Future observations from >satellites should help in this quest. > >Found at: > >http://www.scientificamerican.com/0897issue/0897mendebox6.html > >Bill >webriggs@concentric.net >briggs@XLNsystems.com The satellites did help. It was covered here as regards CF http://world.std.com/~mica/cftnew.html in vol.7 no. 3, of the Cold Fusion Times http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html with some of the data on the cover page on the lower left. [grab the page quick if interested because the next issue is going up shortly and will displace it.] Mitchell Swartz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 15:29:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA13477; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:29:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:29:55 -0800 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 18:29:38 -0500 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 18:29:38 -0500 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 17:30:06 -0500 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: "New Explosive Beats TNT" (1916) In-reply-to: <386A87FC.2960@cyberportal.net> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 18:29:00 -0500 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2340ZYGKQFM9S X400-MTS-identifier: [;83928192219991/4357577@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"iCTuB3.0.LI3.obfQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13412 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bruce, >> Bruce, >> >> Are you telling us, and any half baked terrorist or high school >> delinquent that might be listening, that you can make an A-bomb from a >> smoke detector & a pile of fire crackers? >No, you need radon gas. Smoke detector pellets do not emit this gas. >How much does anyone really know about this gas? If they do they are >not telling. I know for a fact that it is at the seat of many energy >doorways. :) Ok, but same problem. >> And this is somehow a BAD THING that the government DIDN'T tell us how >> to make our own private WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION? >I don't think that people would use this knowledge for destruction >if it had not been kept from us back in the 1920s! The government >is not my keeper. You don't think the Germans or the Japanese wouldn't have used it if it was available? You don't think Al Capone wouldn't have wanted to level a few federal buildings if he could? You don't think the Iranians or the Iraqis wouldn't enjoy using it on us or Israel? You don't think some of the militia nutcases wouldn't like to have this kind of equalizer? Maybe some people NEED a keeper. >> And this will somehow make you a saint, for opening this Pandora's Box? >It will not make me a saint, or devil. The truth will free the people. >Institutionalized slavery must be stopped! Non-institutionalized mass graves are somehow better? You don't think the person handing out recipes for making a bomb to school kids, mental patients and fanatics isn't culpable? Let alone for a WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION? But that's Ok, at least the people will be free. It doesn't matter if a billion people use unlimited power responsibly, if it only takes one nutcase to kill us all! The lives of the average human has never been better in the entire history of the world. Yet you somehow see it as "Institutionalized slavery". As technology increases it creates great benefits, but it also makes it easier for misuse to cause more and more harm. More freedom requires more responsibility, conversely irresponsible people should be given less freedom. If individuals or groups show that they cannot be responsible in a civilized world, our response should not be to give them the ability to do more harm. The automobile gave us great freedom, but for safety we need to follow new rules for behavior. Some people would consider speed limits, stop lights and drunk driving laws a barrier to their freedom. But the lives they save are worth the limit on our freedom. The Bible says the world will end by fire instead of flood the next time, perhaps you see yourself in the role of the fire bringer? Bill webriggs@concentric.net briggs@XLNsystems.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 16:00:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA27206; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 16:00:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 16:00:38 -0800 Message-ID: <004c01bf5258$2b52a760$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:55:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"TKiKs1.0.ue6.a2gQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13413 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com You've concinced me that some ( perhaps most ) of the cases of runaway are caused by burning oil. But the cases where everything is good and the fuel quits and it runs away ( instead of stopping ) still seems like NO. For my thoery to be correct, in most cases it would shut off but when it's been running hard and hot is when it would overspeed on fuel shortage. Have you heard of very many cases where it has been caused by running out of fuel? In the case I heard about, restoring fuel flow made it slow down and resume normal operation. Logically, if it had been burning oil in this case, resuming fuel flow would only make it run faster ( adding fuel ). Robin insist that when O2 and N2 form NO that no heat is generated ( or it's absorbing heat ). Do you know about this from a chemical perspective? scottb >In a marine environment, when a diesel runs away it is often the result of >taking seawater (or fresh for that matter) into the engine crankcase through a >cracked cooling jacket. The oil floats above the ingested water, and blowby >pushes some of it past the rings.... > > I would love to have an engine that ran on nitrogen, (as a fuel) but if you >think that runaway diesels are doing this, then I suggest you dig deeper for >the answer. Because a runaway will run until the air is choked off, the engine >self destructs, or the oil is all gone. If you take away the N2, the thing will >still run, until O2, oil or engine give out. > > >Jim Richardson > Anarchist, pagan and proud of it >WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock > Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 16:24:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA05741; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 16:24:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 16:24:15 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 11:24:05 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <001c01bf5242$1c8d3a80$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> <3.0.6.32.19991229182541.007c8540@world.std.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19991229182541.007c8540@world.std.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA05680 Resent-Message-ID: <"cIlqi1.0.WP1.lOgQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13414 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 29 Dec 1999 18:25:41 -0500, Mitchell Swartz wrote: [snip] > The satellites did help. It was >covered here as regards CF >http://world.std.com/~mica/cftnew.html >in vol.7 no. 3, of the Cold Fusion Times > http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html >with some of the data on the cover page on the >lower left. [grab the page quick if interested >because the next issue is going up shortly and >will displace it.] Somehow, I think lightning is more likely to be a candidate for hot fusion than for cold fusion. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 17:03:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA21202; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 17:03:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 17:03:34 -0800 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: <0.d31eac21.259c095e@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 20:03:26 EST Subject: Re: "New Explosive Beats TNT" (1916) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"G90ut3.0.BB5.czgQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13415 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Allow me to throw some more wood on the fire. "Scientific American" published a piece in the 1920s (I think, it may have been the 30s) where they showed that ordinary charcoal frozen in liquid oxygen packed more explosive power when detonated than TNT. This was freely published information, and would be relatively simple for someone to duplicate, yet to my knowledge, it hasn't been used since the publication of the article. Why? Simple. It is easier for people to buy and use TNT than to whip this up. The information on how to build an atomic bomb has been public knowledge for at least a decade, yet no one has used one against anybody since we in the States last hit Japan. According to news broadcasts, you can find information to build literally any kind of weapon you want on the Internet, yet, with few exceptions, there haven't been any large scale terroristic attacks against any country in the world. We humans seem content to kill ourselves with the same weapons we've used for centuries. Some might argue that we humans are programmed genetically to survive as a species so we're not going to do those things which might wipe us off the face of the earth. I don't know. All I do know is that we haven't managed to kill ourselves off in some 10,000 + years of being here, so what makes us think that we'll do it any time soon. If we are going to die off, it will most likely be because we've drowned in our own filth. The panic that ensues when someone finds a new way killing one another is foolish. Crossbows were banned because the Church thought that they were too horrific to use and would be the end of us all. We're still here. During the Cold War, we thought nukes would come raining down on us at any moment. We're still here. People think that come 1/1/2000, computers will shut down all over the world, I'm betting they won't and we'll still be here come 1/2/2000. History has proven that the greatest danger comes from secrecy and not from openness. Besides, who is going to be the one to decide whether or not someone is responsible enough to handle any information? What criteria are they going to use? What happens if they're wrong? Better to let the information be published and then simply track those who buy the ingredients needed to make whatever. Brian Drake (Bmd2323@aol.com) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 18:54:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA29547; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 18:54:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 18:54:41 -0800 Message-ID: <386AC9BA.8B@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 21:55:54 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: "New Explosive Beats TNT" (1916) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-d3xg1.0.aD7.nbiQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13416 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: > > It will not make me a saint, or devil. The truth will free the people. > Institutionalized slavery must be stopped! > > Non-institutionalized mass graves are somehow better? You don't think > the person handing out recipes for making a bomb to school kids, mental > patients and fanatics isn't culpable? Let alone for a WEAPON OF MASS > DESTRUCTION? But that's Ok, at least the people will be free. Who are you to judge what I am doing? Your government is killing lives as we write these posts. I for one am not willing to give up my freedom for the sake of saftey. I will do what it takes to educate my people and give them the tools to secure there freedom. How many will pay the price for freedom as our forefathers did. I will give my last drop of blood if it will prevent another Nazi Germany. > > It doesn't matter if a billion people use unlimited power responsibly, if > it only takes one nutcase to kill us all! > > The lives of the average human has never been better in the entire history > of the world. Yet you somehow see it as "Institutionalized slavery". It is better for the rich because they have our lives in a strangle hold! What do you do for a living if I may ask? > > As technology increases it creates great benefits, but it > also makes it easier for misuse to cause more and more harm. > More freedom requires more responsibility, conversely irresponsible > people should be given less freedom. If individuals or groups show > that they cannot be responsible in a civilized world, our response > should not be to give them the ability to do more harm. I guess that requires that the U.S. be voided like it has? After all, "it is an outdated document." > > The automobile gave us great freedom, but for safety we need to follow new > rules for behavior. Some people would consider speed limits, stop lights > and drunk driving laws a barrier to their freedom. But the lives they save > are worth the limit on our freedom. The problem is that every aspect of our lives are now regulated. It is come to a point where the Police protect the laws and not the people. > > The Bible says the world will end by fire instead of flood the next time, > perhaps you see yourself in the role of the fire bringer? > > Bill > webriggs@concentric.net > briggs@XLNsystems.com I won't comment on this remark. I will not get into a flame situation. Please read the guidelines of this list. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 18:56:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA30261; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 18:55:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 18:55:59 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 21:50:47 -0500 Subject: Electrolysis Observation Message-ID: <19991229.215049.-491899.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 13-18 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ym0cX.0.kO7._ciQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13417 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I know a lot of posts have been written about electrolysis, but I really think this observation might help someone (Michael Johnston perhaps, it saves another experiment). Robin van Spaandonk mentioned that gas might be evolved in an electrodeless setup (i.e. magnetically induced currents) at a semipermeable barrier. This has been observed. I have been electrolyzing brine to produce *DEADLY CHLORINE GAS* (oh, the horror) as an intermediate step in making NaClO3. As mentioned previously, this setup employs a semipermeable barrier to restrict ion flow so as to neutralize them at the electrodes (producing Cl2 and Na atoms that rapidly react with H2O to form NaOH). I have observed that bubbles of gas are formed on one side of the barrier, not on an electrode. Due to my particular arrangement, I can see only one side of the piece of cardboard that forms the barrier. This could be useful. If you don't use electrodes, you don't have to worry about them corroding. -Tom Grimes ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 19:10:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA05697; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:10:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:10:28 -0800 Message-ID: <386ACD6C.438@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 22:11:40 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "New Explosive Beats TNT" (1916) References: <19991229.173512.-424539.2.tgrimes1@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bVXvR2.0.rO1.ZqiQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13418 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: > > > I hope they don't have an over-inflated ego. Why shouldn't they "have an overinflated ego?" -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 19:14:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA09651; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:14:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:14:09 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 22:07:24 -0500 Subject: Re: "New Explosive Beats TNT" (1916) Message-ID: <19991229.220729.-491899.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-3,8-15,21-22 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gevue1.0.iM2.1uiQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13419 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bruce Perreault wrote the following two snips: >It is better for the rich because they have our lives in a strangle hold! Sounds communistic. Try working for a living and seeing 50% taxes from socialistic redistribution of your hard-earned income. Capitalism means working for a living, and haning the opportunity to succeed. This your statement has been proven to be bunk so many times that I will not mention it further. >The problem is that every aspect of our lives are now regulated. >It is come to a point where the Police protect the laws and not >the people. What country do you live in? Obviously not the U.S. Edmund Burke, one of the great statesman during the founding of the U.S., says it well, "Society cannot exist unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere, and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." -Tom Grimes ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 19:14:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA09779; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:14:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:14:18 -0800 Message-ID: <386ACE50.7AAE@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 22:15:28 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FG6v73.0.dO2.9uiQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13420 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Zack Widup wrote: > > On Wed, 29 Dec 1999, skot wrote: > > > I heard that before the first nuclear detonation they had > > concerns about the possibility of "igniting the earths > > atomsphere". They said they were pretty sure it wouldn't but > > not positive. For a long time I said, "How could you ignite > > air, air won't burn". What about an isotope of nitrogen created by the nuke? How would it react? Did Oppenheimer know something that we have not been told? Of course he did! I know for a fact that Otto Haun did. I have documented proof! This will be revealed no matter who the F_ _K likes it. -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 19:16:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12570; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:16:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:16:31 -0800 Message-ID: <386ACED6.58FF@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 22:17:42 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: truth and masters References: <19991229235043.99193.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OVAqt2.0.E43.EwiQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13421 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com list member wrote: > > Say What is On your Mind! > > ANYONE who does not give info but hides it is the enemy. > The government hid the radon info not to protect but to > control. Every tyrant confuses people by saying that > their control is "protection" read the book "a doll's > house" by gibson. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 19:23:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA16128; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:23:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:23:17 -0800 Message-ID: <386AD06D.631D@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 22:24:29 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: "New Explosive Beats TNT" (1916) References: <19991229.220729.-491899.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qUKO8.0.qx3.b0jQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13422 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: > > Bruce Perreault wrote the following two snips: > >It is better for the rich because they have our lives in a strangle > hold! > > Sounds communistic. Try working for a living and seeing 50% taxes from > socialistic redistribution of your hard-earned income. Capitalism means > working for a living, and haning the opportunity to succeed. This your > statement has been proven to be bunk so many times that I will not > mention it further. I have seen decent people work their fingers to the bone. Working from paycheck to paycheck all their lives. In the end they end up losing their homes. What do you call this? > > >The problem is that every aspect of our lives are now regulated. > >It is come to a point where the Police protect the laws and not > >the people. > > What country do you live in? Obviously not the U.S. Yes... the U.S., or at least what used to be the U.S. > > Edmund Burke, one of the great statesman during the founding of the > U.S., says it well, "Society cannot exist unless a controlling power upon > will and appetite be placed somewhere, and the less of it there is > within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal > constitution of things that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. > Their passions forge their fetters." "Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one" -Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 19:29:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA19354; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:29:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:29:55 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrolysis Observation Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:29:46 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <19991229.215049.-491899.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <19991229.215049.-491899.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA19268 Resent-Message-ID: <"7FEqT3.0.Ik4.o6jQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13423 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 29 Dec 1999 21:50:47 -0500, tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: > I know a lot of posts have been written about electrolysis, but I really >think this observation might help someone (Michael Johnston perhaps, it >saves another experiment). Robin van Spaandonk mentioned that gas might >be evolved in an electrodeless setup (i.e. magnetically induced currents) >at a semipermeable barrier. [snip] Funny, I don't remember saying that :). But it is interesting. For those of you looking for a safe, cheap salt to use in electrolysis, try washing soda (Na2CO3). It's usually available at the supermarket, and doesn't produce any chlorine. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 29 20:08:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA02698; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 20:08:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 20:08:56 -0800 Message-ID: <19991230040853.58701.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [63.28.94.224] From: "Timothy Flytcher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 20:08:53 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"MWwMh.0.zf.NhjQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13424 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > >I heard that before the first nuclear detonation they had > >concerns about the possibility of "igniting the earths > >atmosphere". > >Correct, but the reaction they were afraid of igniting was a nuclear one, >not a chemical one. > There were Three... A) The earth would become a sun due to a self staining nuclear reaction... B) The heat and pressure would ignite the earths atmosphere and burn it off creating a new mars like planet... C) The crust of the earth would shatter casing all the land mass to submerge under a sea of magma... Timothy... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 00:53:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA10140; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 00:53:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 00:53:31 -0800 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.2 on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <004c01bf5258$2b52a760$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 00:55:59 -0800 (PST) Sender: jim@eskimo.com From: Jim Richardson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Resent-Message-ID: <"aijjh2.0.LU2.AsnQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13425 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 29-Dec-1999 skot wrote: > You've concinced me that some ( perhaps most ) of the cases > of runaway are caused by burning oil. But the cases where > everything is good and the fuel quits and it runs away > ( instead of stopping ) still seems like NO. For my thoery > to > be correct, in most cases it would shut off but when it's > been running hard and hot is when it would overspeed on fuel > shortage. Have you heard of very many cases where it has > been caused by running out of fuel? In the case I heard > about, > restoring fuel flow made it slow down and resume normal > operation. Logically, if it had been burning oil in this > case, resuming fuel flow would only make it run faster > ( adding fuel ). I haven't heard of one running away due to running out of fuel, I suppose that the fuel being injected into the cylinder might cool the charge allready present. But that is pure supposition on my part. A diesel burning the oil will runnaway because there is no throttling action, and the "fuel" rate is unlikely to be the exact amount required for whatever RPM the engine was running at when the runnaway occured, usually it will die, if there is no significant source of fuel, sometimes there is too much and runnaway occurs. I would wonder what caused the runaway in the first place. If it were too much oil in the crankcase due to water ingestion or somone reading quarts and thinking liters, then maybe the oil level dropped enough for normal operations, but again, pure supposition on my part. > Robin insist that when O2 and N2 form NO that no heat is > generated ( or it's absorbing heat ). Do you know about this > from a chemical perspective? > It is my understanding that it is an endothermic reaction, ie, more heat is used up in the reaction than is produced. Given the large amount of O2 and N2 in the air, if it were exothermic, then I would expect the whole atmospher to have burned up the first time the reaction started. > scottb > > >>In a marine environment, when a diesel runs away it is > often the result of >>taking seawater (or fresh for that matter) into the engine > crankcase through a >>cracked cooling jacket. The oil floats above the ingested > water, and blowby >>pushes some of it past the rings.... > >> >> I would love to have an engine that ran on nitrogen, (as a > fuel) but if you >>think that runaway diesels are doing this, then I suggest > you dig deeper for >>the answer. Because a runaway will run until the air is > choked off, the engine >>self destructs, or the oil is all gone. If you take away > the N2, the thing will >>still run, until O2, oil or engine give out. >> >> >>Jim Richardson >> Anarchist, pagan and proud of it >>WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock >> Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS. >> Jim Richardson Anarchist, pagan and proud of it WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 04:06:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA01159; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 04:06:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 04:06:51 -0800 Message-ID: <386B4B1D.34CA@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 07:07:57 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: "New Explosive Beats TNT" (1916)] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"bazU81.0.0I.QhqQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13426 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from blazer.intergate.ca (IDENT:root@[207.34.179.35]) by mail1.fcgnetworks.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id CAA23761 for ; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 02:11:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from pm16s28 (pm16s28.intergate.bc.ca [207.34.180.133]) by blazer.intergate.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA14645 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 23:10:35 -0800 Message-ID: <386AE9F0.2C36@intergate.bc.ca> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 00:13:20 -0500 From: Alik Shereshevsky Reply-To: alik@intergate.bc.ca X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Subject: Re: "New Explosive Beats TNT" (1916) References: <19991229.173512.-424539.2.tgrimes1@juno.com> <386ACD6C.438@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While everyone is on the subject of better explosives, a recent (summer 1999) Popular Mechanics had a small mention of a new explosive presented by USAF researchers at some conference (probably well attended by Iraqis and Chinese). I think it was based on arsenic compounds. Re supressed old weapons technologies, does anyone know anything about rumors of so called "compression grenade" developed by Germany in WWII. Based on some descriptions it was like a poor man's neutron-bomb that had the effect of bursting lungs within a half-mile radius without damaging anything else. And last thing on this cheery subject. Russians just said they will develop weapons based on "new physical principles" in response to proposed deployment of ABMs. This is a replay of similar comments that got Tom Bearden all excited during 1970's-1980's. It is interesting that in 1991-2 they offered to sell US/BMDO something that sounded like a guided ball-lightning (perhaps riding on a microwave beam?) Happy new year everyone, and play safely :-) Alik S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 04:12:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA04170; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 04:12:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 04:12:55 -0800 Message-ID: <386B4C8A.25B8@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 07:14:02 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: [Fwd: Re posts about social responsibility.] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"1cDyD1.0._01.6nqQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13427 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from lbmail8.listbot.com (lbmail8.listbot.com [204.71.191.6]) by mail1.fcgnetworks.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id EAA06926 for ; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 04:40:29 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 12874 invoked by uid 108); 30 Dec 1999 09:40:29 -0000 Mailing-List: ListBot mailing list contact nuenergy-help@listbot.com Delivered-To: mailing list nuenergy@listbot.com Reply-To: "Nu Energy Horizons" Received: (qmail 16288 invoked from network); 30 Dec 1999 09:40:41 -0000 Received: from tk2.ihug.co.nz (HELO smtp2.ihug.co.nz) (203.29.160.14) by lb4.listbot.com with SMTP; 30 Dec 1999 09:40:41 -0000 Received: from Renkahu (p25-max1.bal.ihug.co.nz [216.100.159.25]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA14535 for ; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 22:40:21 +1300 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991230224300.007dd790@pop.ihug.co.nz> X-Sender: renkahu@pop.ihug.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 22:43:00 +1300 To: "Nu Energy Horizons" From: Marinus Berghuis Subject: Re posts about social responsibility. In-Reply-To: <386AD06D.631D@cyberportal.net> References: <19991229.220729.-491899.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Nu Energy Horizons - http://www.nuenergy.org At 22:24 29/12/1999 -0500, you wrote: >Nu Energy Horizons - http://www.nuenergy.org > Hello Bruce and all. Read your last posts and thought I would like to reply. >From my perch here out in the sticks, I would like to make a small comment. Free energy will possibly free people from want but not from greed. If todays society had not evolved into today's structure, man would not have reached the moon. If the moon journey is to the benefit of mankind, I fail to see any benefit ever but for the choosen few who might wish to live outside the way nature operates here on earth. As for capitalism being the means to make people succeed and be happy, I fail to see how the managing director of Walt Disney studio's could possibly EARN 526 million dollars per annum and not enslave literally millions of people. For any person to drag that much money out of a company means that thousands of employees have to work for peanuts 24 hours a day. I have to repeat, The citizens of the United States OWN 58 % of all economic wealth on this earth. This has not been earned but achieved through usery in many forms. As for Nazi Germany, that regime was created by the money lenders just as the weapons used during the war by both sides were financed by the same banking groups. As for the laws we live under today here as well as in your country, they are made to enslave whole nations to the legal fraternity who are setting citizen against citizen for ever. If anybody can tell me why the American people are hated by half the world population, I would like to know the answer from some thinking people in your country. Personally, I don't know hate for people, my hate is reserved for the system making most people having to scratch for a living all the time while paying extra ordinary rates of interest to satisfy those that already have gathered more than their share. I saw a comment from a movie director the other day that the biggest moaners were the millionaires thinking they were being done out of some more millions resulting in law suits for ever and a day instead of being happy with what you got. Otherwise there is little mileage to be gained out of discussions like this, it only aggravates an already brittle mind set of a group of people trying to do research with very little money. I sympathise with you Bruce, although having been a business manager for the greatest part of my working life earning reasonable money, the lawyers have picked me clean and have to sell my house to get out of debt generated by legal conflicts created by a few smart alecs milking the system for all it is worth. Result ! No money for any one but the legal beavers and the last remaining native bush down here in private ownership picked clean and left in an indescribable mess which will take a thousand years to repair. Have a happy New Year, I won't say NEW MILLENIUM because that was dreamed up by the commercial boys to make a quick buck. No one knows what millenium it is as we started dating at some time but certainly not year 1. Greetings and don't overindulge causing hangovers!! Ren ______________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, write to nuenergy-unsubscribe@listbot.com ______________________________________________________________________ Applying to college this year? Apply online at Embark.com and enter the Embark.com Tuition Sweepstakes! You could win $80,000 for tuition to the college of your dreams! Enter daily to increase your chances of winning: Sweepstakes ends 1/15/00. Click to enter: http://www.listbot.com/lin ks/embark From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 04:59:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA11522; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 04:59:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 04:59:36 -0800 Message-ID: <386B571A.59D2@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 07:59:06 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@listbot.com CC: nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Atmospheric Energy Conversion Problem Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vm2wG2.0.sp2.tSrQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13428 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Blockbuster Puzzle for Year 2000: The earth generates large electrostatic differences between its atmosphere and surface. This is due to the fact that the air has an excess of positive ions, while the ground contains an excess of electrons. This field of ions is measured at around 130-volts per meter of distance between ground and sky. Very little current is measured between an antenna wire strung up in the air and a grounding-rod. The problem with tapping into this source of energy is that the positive-ion density in the surrounding air is too low. This results in almost zero charge flow from the ground ions towards the positive atmospheric ions. There exists only one invention that has extracted a practical amount of current from the earth’s electrostatic field. It is the radiant energy receiver. The radiant energy receiver taps into the earth’s electron reserve by dumping electrons into the air. In doing this the device draws in replacement electrons from the ground. Electric power is pumped by its circuitry. My question for the list is how can a device be built that does not rely on radioactive material. I have this problem more than half solved. Instead of bickering in the year 2000 let’s come up with this answer. The answer would certainly transform the world. With unlimited energy humanity could evolve in spite of the greed of the filthy rich. It is a certainty that these kind folks will not want to give up their slaves. There will be global madness for a time but that is what change is all about. THe human race must evolve soon or it is doomed to perish. Freedom is worth the price. No person on earth has the right to live off another persons labor. HAPPY YEAR 2000, -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 06:24:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA03109; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 06:24:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 06:24:21 -0800 Message-ID: <386B6B55.1B77@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:25:25 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Say What is On your Mind!" CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: Y2K References: <199912301311.GAA04410@leo.pcisys.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RvZzK.0.Um.LisQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13429 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dave, I for one would like to do this. Send whatever information that it will take. -BAP dmarshall@pcisys.net wrote: > > Say What is On your Mind! > > > I will admit that I haven't provided much to this list in the way of > scientific breakthroughs (I am still trying to get this UV trittium thing > working, not getting any significant voltage / amps), but here is one thing I > can offer: > > I have successfully removed myself from the requirement of paying Federal > Income tax! > > I have provided the proper documentation to my employer, the IRS, and soon will > complete my paperwork to protect my retirement check from being taxed. If > anyone would like to do this, I will provide more information regarding this. > > P.S. For those who think that the money collected by the IRS goes to our > national government, I have some comments: WWI was fought by a million man > army supported by a government / country that DID NOT have a federal income > tax!, ALL of the governments functions were funded by OTHER means (road tax, > tarriffs, sales taxes, etc...) Granted, there are more people here today to > take care of, but also there are more people to PAY these taxes and cover all > of these costs. Granted, also, that the size (per capita) of our government > back then and our government now (which is larger) might warrant (in some > minds) more funding, but as probably most here will agree, there are too many > laws on the books now that are not being enforced, and that 75% of the > attorneys in the world reside / practice here in America! The system is too > large. I just found out the other day, that there is a federal law that > prohibits felons from purchasing firearms (sounds simple right?) however, only > ONE person was convicted of it nationally! Something definitely wrong here. I > advocate the individual taking a proactive and responsible role in the civic > duties of their community, not relinquishing it to 'Big Brother'. Forgive me > for my rambling, but it is important to me, and this just might enable more of > the people here on this list to free up their salaries for inventions. > > P.P.S. The key word regarding this IRS action, is: Income. According to the > USC 26 (IRS code) Income is generated ONLY by corporations, foreign people, > foreign corporations, and federal employees. > > Say What is On your Mind! > > > > Martin, > > > > I own a home through Rural Development (Farmers Loan). > > At the end of my loan I will be 65 years old. Then I > > will have to take out a bank loan to payback the government > > for my low interest loan. So you see... I will never really > > own my home. I am renting from the government. I have tried > > everything that you mention in your post. It is harder than > > you think to get $10K free and clear. > > > > -BAP > > > > > > > > MARTIN WOLFF wrote: > > > > > > Nu Energy Horizons - http://www.nuenergy.org > > > > > > It depends upon your domestic situation, but let's explore some options. > > > > > > If you own (or part own) your house, remortgageing your house and > > > realizing $10k in equity isn't going to be too painful. If you don't own > your > > > own house, I hate to think how much you have already thrown away over > > > the years to your landlord. > > > > > > If you don't want to owe people then you will have to earn it > > > yourself. I don't know how you make your money to live on but I know > > > you spend time working in your lab. How many hours a week do you spend > > > that way? Would you be prepared to spend a few months not doing any > research > > > and work somewhere for money? Yes it will probably be something menial but > > > how much do you want this money. > > > > > > The other way is to spend less. Again I don't know your domestic finances > but I > > > do know that many people who consider themselves living a thrifty life are, > unknown > > > to them, throwing away money they could better use. Maybe this is you, > maybe it > > > isn't. > > > > > > They are the most obvious options and there are others. $10k is a small > enough amount > > > of money that almost anyone can reach if they swallow their pride and put > their mind to > > > it. > > > > > > Martin. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 06:51:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA14625; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 06:51:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 06:51:54 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:45:41 -0500 Subject: Fw: Re: Still going Message-ID: <19991230.094548.-389713.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-6,8-10,12-17,19-26 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EX9AF3.0.Oa3.A6tQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13430 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 12:59:45 +1100 Subject: Re: Still going I think you will find that with no electrodes present, no gas will be produced at all with AC. This can be deduced, by considering the fact that in normal electrolysis cells, gas is produced at the electrodes, not in between (i.e. passage of a current alone is insufficient). A physical barrier where ions can be neutralised is needed. Anyone with evidence to the contrary, please speak up. [end of snip of previous post] Tom Grimes wrote: >Robin van Spaandonk mentioned that gas might >be evolved in an electrodeless setup (i.e. magnetically induced currents) >at a semipermeable barrier. Robin van Spaandonk responded: >Funny, I don't remember saying that :). "Give credit where credit is due." -Tom Grimes ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 08:30:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA28318; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:30:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:30:36 -0800 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Electrolysis Observation Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 11:40:24 -0500 Message-ID: <19991230164024187.AAA246@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"W7E_z3.0.Ew6.hYuQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13431 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robin writes: >Funny, I don't remember saying that :). But it is interesting. >For those of you looking for a safe, cheap salt to use in electrolysis, try >washing soda (Na2CO3). It's usually available at the supermarket, and >doesn't produce any chlorine. > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk What's funny is that, while you may not have written it, I've been thinking a lot about it with regard to the Mizuno cell replication attempt currently under discussion in the Vortex Group. The magnetic stirring device used by Scott Little may have a greater influence than he realizes, and it hasn't really been put to the test, as far as I know, to determine adequately what its effect is on the overall performance of the cell. That is just one aspect of Scott's protocol that I'm not satisfied with, but I just haven't had the time to compile a complete list of things that I think may be interesting to test, or to think up the protocols for testing them. It's a very interesting and complicated little jar of stuff. Also, as for using washing soda as an electrolyte, you should add that, ideally, this should be used in distilled water. Most municipal tap water sources can contain as much as 10ppm of Cl2, which in a small e-cell is not that big of a deal, but in a flow through design of any size, it could pose a health risk if not properly ventilated. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 09:00:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA13696; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:59:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:59:59 -0800 From: Charlie Hodgson Reply-To: Charlie_Hodgson@s2systems.com Organization: Society for Real Time To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Another Attempt to Clarification Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 12:07:45 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain References: <19991229.171345.-424539.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <19991229.171345.-424539.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99123012102803.21236@cougar> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id IAA13665 Resent-Message-ID: <"uXUGL3.0.rL3.E-uQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13432 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is called the 'flash point', the temperature at which a liquid will burn. Gasoline is the same. You can extinguish a match in a cupful of gasoline. Just make certain that the liquid goes all the way to the top of the vessel and that there is adequate ventilation to ensure no buildup of vapors. Charlie On Wed, 29 Dec 1999, tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: > On Wed, 29 Dec 1999 10:29:56 -0800 "skot" writes: > >If you take methane and put in a vacuum or get it too cold > >it will not burn. All combustion takes a mimumum pressure > >and temperature. > > On an interesting tangent, liquid methanol (or ethanol) exibits this. > Only the vapors burn. You can ignite a beaker of alcohol and it will > only burn on the surface (the vapor ignites, warming the liquid and > releasing more vapor). It looks really neat when you pour it out onto a > (fire proof) surface. > > -Tom Grimes > > > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. -- Who is Don Alphonso, and what's all this about tweezers? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 09:40:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA31414; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:40:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:40:18 -0800 Message-ID: <386B993C.6685E999@info2000.net> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:41:17 -0700 From: Ted Reply-To: tsleber@info2000.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Still going References: <19991230.094548.-389713.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Z6mp-1.0.lg7.1avQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13433 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robin, Check out eagleresearch.com He is producing gas midway between the plates of his electrolizer. Have a great new year, Ted From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 10:12:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA12006; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:12:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:12:40 -0800 Message-ID: <386BA0DB.2E5A@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 13:13:47 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Atmospheric Energy Conversion Problem References: <386B571A.59D2@cyberportal.net> <386B6B1F.48748518@globalcrossing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ns65f.0.Qx2.N2wQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13434 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com MARTIN WOLFF wrote: > > If you could pump electrons up a wire for free, wouldn't it > be more useful just to pump them straight into your > house/car/other thing. They are in the form of electrostatic charge in the earth. They have to be converted once they are enticed to moved from the ground to an energy sink hole. You can not use them directly. > > What extra does pumping them up the wire buy you? Pumping directs them to where you want them to go. The pump also provides the required energy sink hole. In my way of think anyway. Do you have a better plan? -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 10:29:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA02340; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:29:18 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:29:18 -0800 (PST) From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 13:24:02 -0500 Subject: Social responsibility, etc. Message-ID: <19991230.132406.-411861.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6-9 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xnPaI.0.Ra.xHwQu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13435 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com As I know this list is primarily dedicated to discussing free energy, overunity, etc., I will not continue my present argument with Mr. Perreault over social issues. If he chooses to write me personally, that is a different story. I believe he is wrong, but this list is not the proper element in which to discuss it. Don't get me wrong, I would not have him stop writing posts because I, and I know many others agree, believe he has valuable information to contribute. -Tom Grimes P.S.: Happy New Year (NOT millenium)! ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 10:35:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA23669; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:35:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:35:46 -0800 Message-ID: <386BA647.2BB3@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 13:36:55 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Wallace` CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Off Topic (social equality) References: <386B571A.59D2@cyberportal.net> <078201bf52d7$c3f93a40$0f8280d8@btech> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TJbUM3.0.in5.2OwQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13436 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill, I do not buy this one bit. One person is just as impormant as the whole of humanity. I'm not a religious man but everyone must remember the parable that Christ gave in the bible? It was the one when one sheep from the heard was lead astray. What I am getting at what makes people think that one life is worth more than another? Every person has a mission to fill in life. We only get one shot. Why should people suffer because another is more cunning? Why shouldn't a janitor have the same comforts as say an engineer? Should all blue eyed people be in control because they are from a better genetic stock? I think that you are rationalizing the injustice that is occurring behind closed doors each and every second. I'm sorry, I can not turn my back to it. All is not well. -BAP Bill Wallace` wrote: > > Hey Bruce! Your ideas for tapping the energy of the atmosphere are very > interesting and one day I am sure many people will get their power from that > method - but lets talk about other things in the future. Mankind is now 6 > billion strong - that is a massive amount of distributed intelligence. > However advances in genetic research - biotechnology - and artificial > intelligence will one day create an intelligence far greater than any one > man could ever match. Take for instance your own body - even with your > awesome brain - there is no way you could consciously dictate the movements > and actions of individual cells to do their functions. Each cell is a > lifeform however - with a job to do - now view mankind as one organism. > Lets say you are attacked by an infectious virus - an infection that only > attacks your brain cells - your antivirus cells go and fight this virus > giving up their lives in the saving of your brain cells - which to the > overall organism - is more important. They did not need the braincells to > live - the organism still could have survived with less intelligence - but > the design was for these antivirul cells to give up their life defending the > brain cells. Say for instance an attack came on your body that either cost > you to lose an arm or half your brain - certainly the arm would go. Imagine > a soldier doing the same for his country - a city doing the same for a > nation - a nation doing the same for a world. Now in the future - the > superior intelligence that is going to be created from the work of man - > wether that be his world governments - his artificial super intelligence or > whatever system or structure or advances that come - the whole will be far > more important than any individual part - and the intelligence part of that > will probably be deemed far more important than any of the other parts - as > in our own bodies. How can there be equality? I am sure you place a much > higher priority on certain cells in your body than others - even though they > are all life forms - and when viewing mankind as one - they can't all be > equal - some will be more important. Does your braincell have the right to > live at the cost of the death of your antivirul cell? To say that no man > can live off another - is to deny what is going to happen in the future - an > elite will live off the masses - as has always been done - as happens in > each individual persons body now. A person or group of people with a 60 IQ > will never equal a person or group of people with a 160 IQ. And when an > entity (natural or artificial) comes along in our future with a 600 IQ - I > just don't think equality with those at 160 IQ will happen. If you believe > it will - I would like to know why. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 11:10:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA07575; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 11:10:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 11:10:24 -0800 Message-ID: <386BAE68.75C3@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:11:36 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: Social responsibility, etc. References: <19991230.132406.-411861.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hXWa03.0.Gs1.WuwQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13437 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: > > As I know this list is primarily dedicated to discussing free energy, > overunity, etc., I will not continue my present argument with Mr. > Perreault over social issues. If he chooses to write me personally, that > is a different story. I believe he is wrong, but this list is not the > proper element in which to discuss it. Don't get me wrong, I would not > have him stop writing posts because I, and I know many others agree, > believe he has valuable information to contribute. I know that I go slightly off topic at times. Usually it happens when someone decides to send a flame my way. It try to keep my posts on topic but when someone directs an off topic remark it is pretty hard just to ignore it. Energy is directly intwined with our social environment. My latest tangent begain when someone flamed me for releasing the A-bomb posts if you recall. -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 11:34:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA18512; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 11:34:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 11:34:05 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:27:58 -0500 Subject: Coilgun design Message-ID: <19991230.142800.-429837.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3,20-21,29-30,39-40 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"amb_l.0.5X4.iExQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13438 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com For all of you who have not checked out Tim Ventura's website (http://electrogravity.hypermart.net/railgun/index.html), you should. It is really fascinating. There is another coilgun design, though, that I think would work well. It is based on a simple solenoid, as all coliguns are, but with a twist (I know: bad pun). Instead of separate stages, why not just wind a very long solenoid and cut off the current before the projectile reaches the center? In the tests I have conducted, I used solid copper wire (don't ask what gauge, all I know is it was pretty heavy) wound around a piece of plastic tubing. The projectile was a sawed-off nail (~1.5 grams). You could just use a timer circuit to deliver a pulse of a calculated duration, but that requires careful control of parameters (mass of projectile, degree of ferromagnetism in projectile, etc.). So, you could just wind another, smaller coil around the outside of the main coil, keeping it before the halfway-point. The theory is that the projectile will have an induced magnetism from the main coil, so when it passes through the sensor coil it induces a small electric current in it. The current from the sensor would be used to trigger a circuit to cut off the current through the main coil. Thus, if you have a 1.0 m long coil, you can make the projectile accelerate through a distance of 0.5 m. However, a 1.0 m coil is fairly unwieldy. So, you could double up the latter half, leaving you with the equivalent of two coils in series. That way you could reduce the length to 0.75 m. This concept can be extended further by imagining that all you need is two coils that have equal magnetic strength placed in series. For example, wind a coil 0.5 m long with one layer and then 0.05 m with ten layers. With that setup, the total coil length is only 0.55 m and the first 0.5 m (91%) is used for acceleration. Please correct me if I am wrong with these calculations or if my assumptions are way off. Using the previous example, assume that the coil produces a force of 1.0 N acting on the 1.5 g projectile. The acceleration produced by the coil would be a = F/m = 670 m/s^2 (which is equivalent to 68 g's). The final velocity would be 26 m/s. How does this compare with standard guns? The maximum range is 68 m. The kinetic energy imparted to the projectile would be 0.5 J. Using an efficiency of 1%, the circuit could be run by a 12 V power supply drawing 1.1 A (the coil would need a resistance of 11 Ohms). Sounds pretty feasible to me. -Tom Grimes ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 12:30:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA10770; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 12:30:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 12:30:39 -0800 Message-ID: <386BC135.3CFB@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:31:49 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Coilgun design References: <19991230.142800.-429837.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8Fkkf.0.Be2.k3yQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13439 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tom, Good feedback! I've only got one suggestion to add. :) How about using a rare-earth magnet as your projectile. What do you think? -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 12:34:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA14216; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 12:34:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 12:34:12 -0800 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:33:53 -0500 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:32:33 -0500 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:13:17 -0500 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: RE: Off Topic (social equality) In-reply-to: <386BA647.2BB3@cyberportal.net> To: freenrg-L Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:33:00 -0500 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2341ZYGLM84AR X400-MTS-identifier: [;35335103219991/4359879@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"tMu5B.0.1U3.37yQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13440 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bruce, >I do not buy this one bit. One person is just as impormant as >the whole of humanity. I'm not a religious man but everyone >must remember the parable that Christ gave in the bible? It >was the one when one sheep from the heard was lead astray. >What I am getting at what makes people think that one life is >worth more than another? Every person has a mission to fill in >life. We only get one shot. Why should people suffer because >another is more cunning? Why shouldn't a janitor have the same >comforts as say an engineer? Should all blue eyed people be in >control because they are from a better genetic stock? I think >that you are rationalizing the injustice that is occurring >behind closed doors each and every second. I'm sorry, I can not >turn my back to it. All is not well. Let me get this straight, you think that everyone should have the exact same economic standard of living? No matter how much or how little effort they expend. Not only that you believe that if the janitor does something stupid or irresponsible like spending an inordinate amount of his funds on alcohol, tobacco, drugs and improper eating habits, that he should be compensated extra so that he can still have as nice a house & car as the engineer? The janitor who wouldn't do his homework, and ended up not even finishing high school. He can only get a job as a janitor, but that's not his fault it's the rich keeping him down. He's always late for work, he calls in sick 3 or 4 times a month, usually just because he doesn't feel like working, or he's hung over, and every once in a while he is actually sick. He can't be bothered to help out the maintenance people every once in a while, and maybe learn some additional skills to make himself more valuable to his employer. Go to the library and read some books on how to improve himself, you've got to be kidding. Save his money and take a few classes, when one of the happiest days of his life was when he dropped out of school? Pay the rent on time or go out drinking with his buddies, you have to ask? Contribute to a 401K plan or an IRA, hey that's what Social Security is for, the government will take care of me. Take on another job to save for some goal, maybe next year, which never seems to come around. Go into business with a friend and risk that nice steady paycheck, why bother, no-one will ever buy a hamburger from someplace called Wendy's when they could just keep going to MacDonalds. This janitor should have the same standard of living as the engineer who: Did his homework, and took the hard classes. He took out a student loan, or went into the military to pay for his further education, instead of sticking his hand out expecting someone else to pay for it. When he goes to work, he gets there on time, everyday, and is hardly ever sick because he isn't abusing his health like the janitor. He helps out anyone who asks at work so that he can fill-in for just about anyone else if needed. In his spare time he goes to the library to study interests in other fields, or to advance his skills in his own field. He doesn't smoke, hardly ever drinks, and brown bags it to lunch instead of going out all the time. He learns how to save money, buying a house and car that is less then what he can afford, but is good enough for now. He maximizes his 401k plan, and saves additional money every month in some mutual funds. He gets an idea on how to make something better, or something that has never been done before. He gambles his steady paycheck and his savings to start a company. He works even harder and longer than he did for someone else. His gismos work, making life easier for everyone. He's a success, and he's making more money then he could have imagined. Then Bruce comes along and says no, this isn't fair the engineer must give up half his profits to the janitor. How dare he enslave the janitor!!! Face it Bruce, the vast majority of people are stupid and/or irresponsible with their time and money. Until you can do something about that, they will continue to shackle themselves. And because they don't want to accept responsibility for their own actions, they will blame someone else. The government, the evil rich, the Jews, the bankers, anyone but the person who makes the day to day decisions for their life, themselves. Bill webriggs@concentric.net briggs@XLNsystems.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 12:45:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA20003; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 12:45:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 12:45:42 -0800 Message-ID: <386BC4BB.23CF@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:46:51 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Atmospheric Energy Conversion Problem References: <386B571A.59D2@cyberportal.net> <386B6B1F.48748518@globalcrossing.com> <386BA0DB.2E5A@cyberportal.net> <386BB91A.40149783@globalcrossing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QReNS1.0.Su4.rHyQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13441 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com MARTIN WOLFF wrote: > > Look at the attached file - it uses a water analogy. > > I have always assumed this is that you are trying to do with the electrons. > ie pump them up and use a valve to stop them coming back. No, it is not the same. Look at it this way. Using your water diagram as an anology; The earth is stores water (eletrons) under great pressure. The air above is devoid of water (liquid). However, the space (air) contains at almost equal the pressure of the water. Here you have alot of energy stored in the earth but nowhere to go. Now, create a bubble of less pressure and the water will flow. Now you have tapped into the energy of the water pressure. A water pump (valve divertor) in this flow and you can direct the current to go through a load, say a water turbine. Are you getting my point? > > The differences are that the water device would harness the potential energy > against gravity by turning a turbine generator as the water flow back down > while your device put an electrical equivalent generator between the pump > and valve. Your hope is that you are able to make the pump need less external > energy than the generator extracts by resonance, radioactivity or something else. > > My point was (and still is), if you can make the pump/generator combo put out > more than it takes in, you may as well use it directly for energy creation rather > than additional steps of pushing electrons up a wire. No, because the pressure is too high. You have to bring down the pressure. -Bruce A. Perreault > > This may not be what you are saying, appologies in advance if that is the case. > > Martin. > > "Bruce A. Perreault" wrote: > > > Nu Energy Horizons - http://www.nuenergy.org > > > > MARTIN WOLFF wrote: > > > > > > If you could pump electrons up a wire for free, wouldn't it > > > be more useful just to pump them straight into your > > > house/car/other thing. > > > > They are in the form of electrostatic charge in the earth. > > They have to be converted once they are enticed to moved > > from the ground to an energy sink hole. You can not use > > them directly. > > > > > > > > What extra does pumping them up the wire buy you? > > > > Pumping directs them to where you want them to go. > > The pump also provides the required energy sink hole. > > In my way of think anyway. Do you have a better plan? > > > > -BAP > --------------------------------------------------------------- > [Image] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 13:35:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA04069; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 13:35:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 13:35:22 -0800 Message-ID: <386BD05E.5BD9@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:36:30 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: Off Topic (social equality) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tp72X3.0.R_.P0zQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13442 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: > > Bruce, > > >I do not buy this one bit. One person is just as impormant as > >the whole of humanity. I'm not a religious man but everyone > >must remember the parable that Christ gave in the bible? It > >was the one when one sheep from the heard was lead astray. > >What I am getting at what makes people think that one life is > >worth more than another? Every person has a mission to fill in > >life. We only get one shot. Why should people suffer because > >another is more cunning? Why shouldn't a janitor have the same > >comforts as say an engineer? Should all blue eyed people be in > >control because they are from a better genetic stock? I think > >that you are rationalizing the injustice that is occurring > >behind closed doors each and every second. I'm sorry, I can not > >turn my back to it. All is not well. > > Let me get this straight, you think that everyone should have the exact > same economic standard of living? No matter how much or how little effort > they expend. No, I did not say that. > > Not only that you believe that if the janitor does something > stupid or irresponsible like spending an inordinate amount of > his funds on alcohol, tobacco, drugs and improper eating > habits, that he should be compensated extra so that he can > still have as nice a house & car as the engineer? An engineer can also spent his/her money in the same way. What makes the Janitor any different than the engineer? If it makes a person happy to do alcohol, tobacco, drugs, or over-eat what gives you the right to take his comfort away from that life. As long as they do not infridge on anothers life then what is wrong? > > The janitor who wouldn't do his homework, and ended up not even finishing > high school. He can only get a job as a janitor, but that's not his fault > it's the rich keeping him down. I for one am a self-educated person. Because I did it may way I am punished by society? > > He's always late for work, he calls in sick 3 or 4 times a month, usually > just because he doesn't feel like working, or he's hung over, and every > once in a while he is actually sick. He can't be bothered to help out the > maintenance people every once in a while, and maybe learn some additional > skills to make himself more valuable to his employer. How about if he's always on time, often shows up ten or fifteen minutes early, only called in sick once in twenty years. Getting $10.00 an hour after twenty years of loyal service while his "educated" co-workers are making $25.00 per hour and maybe are not so good workers? Tell me that you have not seen this situation, under similar circumstances. I am not saying pay people for doing nothing. I am saying reward people for whatever service that they provide. Why should an engineer get payed more money. Using an engineer as an example is probably not wise to do on this list because most members are probably engineers. > > Go to the library and read some books on how to improve himself, you've got > to be kidding. Save his money and take a few classes, when one of the > happiest days of his life was when he dropped out of school? Pay the rent > on time or go out drinking with his buddies, you have to ask? Guess what? I save and milk every penny that passes my way. I have quite a collection of books. Even attended what you call "higher education." I don't drink, I don't smoke, eat healthy, never missed a mortgage payment. I put my all into anything that I do. Guess what? I barely have enough money at the end of each week to move forward with my reason for living. I make the same wages that I did twenty years ago! No, I'm not a janitor now but when I was younger it was one of my summer jobs. What's wrong with this picture? > > Contribute to a 401K plan or an IRA, hey that's what Social Security is > for, the government will take care of me. Take on another job to save for > some goal, maybe next year, which never seems to come around. I once had two jobs. My eight-hour day job at a vitamin factory lifting heavy barrels, and my eight-hour job supervising a cleaning crew at the division of motor vehicles. At $5.00 per hour those two jobs nearly made the bills. > > Go into business with a friend and risk that nice steady paycheck, > why bother, no-one will ever buy a hamburger from someplace called Wendy's > when they could just keep going to MacDonalds. Oh... maybe easy for you to say but alot of us don't have the cash to buy a business. Not all of come from a wealthy family. > > This janitor should have the same standard of living as the engineer who: > > Did his homework, and took the hard classes. He took out a student loan, > or went into the military to pay for his further education, instead of > sticking his hand out expecting someone else to pay for it. No, not the janitor that you described. Yes, to the janitor that I have described. Is this so hard for you to accept? > > When he goes to work, he gets there on time, everyday, and is hardly > ever sick because he isn't abusing his health like the janitor. > He helps out anyone who asks at work so that he can fill-in for just > about anyone else if needed. In his spare time he goes to the library > to study interests in other fields, or to advance his skills in his > own field. He doesn't smoke, hardly ever drinks, and brown bags it to > lunch instead of going out all the time. He learns how to save money, > buying a house and car that is less then what he can afford, but is > good enough for now. He maximizes his 401k plan, and saves additional > money every month in some mutual funds. Oh really? If only life was so rosey. It's not. Apparently you have never had to see the other side of the coin., and I sincerely hope that you never do. > > He gets an idea on how to make something better, or something that has > never been done before. He gambles his steady paycheck and his savings to > start a company. He works even harder and longer than he did for someone > else. His gismos work, making life easier for everyone. He's a success, > and he's making more money then he could have imagined. Bingo... that's what it takes in the type of society that we live in. Not too many people have any courage left after they have been beaten half to death for daring not to fit the mold. The problem comes when the wolves close into to ravage the harvest leaving the victum to die. > > Then Bruce comes along and says no, this isn't fair the engineer must give > up half his profits to the janitor. How dare he enslave the janitor!!! The engineer would not have to give up a dime. We are talking about equality, not welfare. > > Face it Bruce, the vast majority of people are stupid and/or irresponsible > with their time and money. Until you can do something about that, they > will continue to shackle themselves. And because they don't want to accept > responsibility for their own actions, they will blame someone else. The > government, the evil rich, the Jews, the bankers, anyone but the person who > makes the day to day decisions for their life, themselves. > > Bill > webriggs@concentric.net > briggs@XLNsystems.com Give me a break... restricting freedom shackles people, it breaks their spirit. Have you ever seen a race horse with a broken spirit? They usually end up in a glue factory. -Bruce A. Perreault P.S. Please, no more of these types of posts. Personally I don't wish to get booted from the list. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 14:21:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA19686; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:21:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:21:09 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 17:14:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Coilgun design Message-ID: <19991230.171616.-417179.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-5,12-13 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WL-oO3.0.Vp4.JhzQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13443 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:31:49 -0500 "Bruce A. Perreault" writes: >Good feedback! I've only got one suggestion to add. :) >How about using a rare-earth magnet as your projectile. >What do you think? It sounds like it would increase the field strength, and thus the force on the projectile (and the acceleration, final velocity, range, etc.). Or, alternatively, you could reduce input power and achieve the same results as if the projectile was not magnetized. The only major drawback that I can see is that rare-earth magnets are too expensive to be practical ammunition. Plus, because they are polarized, it is possible to mistakenly put them in the gun backwards and decrease performance. -Tom Grimes ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 14:41:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA29792; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:41:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:41:22 -0800 Message-ID: <386BDFD9.25CB@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 17:42:33 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: Coilgun design References: <19991230.171616.-417179.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"E7cVl3.0.KH7.I-zQu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13444 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:31:49 -0500 "Bruce A. Perreault" > writes: > >Good feedback! I've only got one suggestion to add. :) > >How about using a rare-earth magnet as your projectile. > >What do you think? > > It sounds like it would increase the field strength, and thus the force > on the projectile (and the acceleration, final velocity, range, etc.). > Or, alternatively, you could reduce input power and achieve the same > results as if the projectile was not magnetized. The only major drawback > that I can see is that rare-earth magnets are too expensive to be > practical ammunition. Plus, because they are polarized, it is possible > to mistakenly put them in the gun backwards and decrease performance. Strong magnets can be obtained for 33 cents or less. Crazy-glue an exacto blade on the right pole and you have yourself a nice electronic hunting gun. :) -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 14:52:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA03464; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:52:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:52:27 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Still going Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 09:52:17 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <1con6ss13u44v66afl8amfa45kcend9ht5@4ax.com> References: <19991230.094548.-389713.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <19991230.094548.-389713.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA03436 Resent-Message-ID: <"_jv-4.0.-r.h8-Qu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13445 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:45:41 -0500, tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: >--------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: Robin van Spaandonk >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 12:59:45 +1100 >Subject: Re: Still going > >I think you will find that with no electrodes present, no gas will be >produced at all with AC. This can be deduced, by considering the fact >that >in normal electrolysis cells, gas is produced at the electrodes, not in >between (i.e. passage of a current alone is insufficient). A physical >barrier where ions can be neutralised is needed. Anyone with evidence to >the >contrary, please speak up. >[end of snip of previous post] > >Tom Grimes wrote: >>Robin van Spaandonk mentioned that gas might >>be evolved in an electrodeless setup (i.e. magnetically induced >currents) >>at a semipermeable barrier. > >Robin van Spaandonk responded: >>Funny, I don't remember saying that :). > >"Give credit where credit is due." Indeed....The barrier I had in mind at the time, was the surface of the electrodes. Interpreting this as a semi-permeable membrane however was your idea! ;) [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 15:02:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA07569; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:02:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:02:40 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Still going Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 10:02:35 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <19991230.094548.-389713.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> <386B993C.6685E999@info2000.net> In-Reply-To: <386B993C.6685E999@info2000.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA07548 Resent-Message-ID: <"BzXX22.0.As1.FI-Qu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13446 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:41:17 -0700, Ted wrote: >Robin, >Check out eagleresearch.com >He is producing gas midway between the plates of his electrolizer. > >Have a great new year, > >Ted Yes, so he says. I would like to see this. If true, it is a fundamentally new physical principle IMO (by new, I mean unknown to current science). (However looking for prosaic explanations, I would first suspect that the plates are so close together that one may not be able to see clearly exactly where the gas is coming from). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 15:49:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA24007; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:49:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:49:37 -0800 Message-ID: <19991230234930.23744.qmail@nw173.netaddress.usa.net> Date: 30 Dec 99 18:49:29 EST From: Horace To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Atmospheric Energy Conversion Problem] CC: nuenergy@cyberportal.net X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.4.0.33) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA23970 Resent-Message-ID: <"t9Eq43.0.0t5.G--Qu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13447 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I'd like to suggest 2 methods for manipulating the electrons and accomlishing charge separation and large potentials between the separated groups: 1. Rotating magnetic field (just like in AC motor stator) that acts as a fan for any charged particles via Lorentz deflection (ionized smoke, alpha-particles, electrons... are "blown" by it just like air by ordinary fan) 2. Static magnetic field for trapping/storing the charged particles (ie. electrons) pumped by the above "electron-fan", into circular orbits away from the "electron fan" (just like in the Cyclotron). Static magnetic fields do no work and can store electrons in vacuum "for free" - colloqialy writing. (Note: To compensate for real-world electron collisions with the air molecules and the resulting spiraling-down of the electron orbits, a pulstaing magnetic field can be used to compensate for the air-collisions-losses and keeping the electrons in stable circular orbits (just like in the Betatron) Happy New Year, Horace P.S. :-) Supposedly the ionization potential achieved by such pump&trap setup can reach Giga Volts, and relativistic speeds of the trapped electrons allow for extreme electric field densities, exhibiting variety of unconventional phenomena :-) :-) Supposedly this is how the UFOs work, and is the reason for the classic saucer + dome shape, hyperionization glow around it, etc... :-) "Bruce A. Perreault" wrote: > >...snip... > > The radiant energy receiver taps > into the earth’s electron reserve by dumping electrons into the > air. In doing this the device draws in replacement electrons from > the ground. Electric power is pumped by its circuitry. > > My question for the list is how can a device be built that does not > rely on radioactive material. I have this problem more than half > solved ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 19:03:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA17381; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 19:03:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 19:03:49 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 21:57:49 -0500 Subject: Question about the reason solenoids work Message-ID: <19991230.215752.-450057.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-5,23-24 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JIMs43.0.PF4.Kq1Ru"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13448 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com As I have not the physics training that some on this list have, I have a question about solenoids. Specifically, why is the plunger attracted to the middle of the coil? If the plunger is short enough, you can see that it stays exactly in the middle. I have a theory, but I don't know about it's validity. In order to explain this phenomena, I considered the solenoid to be composed of two coils in series, one on either side of the (point) plunger. In a straight coil, the magnetic force should be proportional to the length of the coil. Therefore, since each coil is an electromagnet and draws the plunger toward it, the middle is the place where the two opposing forces cancel out. Thus the force on the plunger equals the difference between the magnetic forces of the coils. Since the radius is constant and the magnetic strength is proportional to the length of the coil, the force on the plunger (or projectile, in the case of coilguns) is equal to the difference in the lengths of the coils. At the midpoint, this difference is zero. Under examination of the implied equation, it is easy to see that the average net magnetic force on the plunger/projectile through half of the coil is half of the field strength at the end of the coil. So, with a small change in wording, the calculation I presented still holds (specifically, the average force produced by the 1.0 m coil needs to be 1.0 N; at the end it will be 2.0 N). As an interesting prediction, the plunger/projectile should slow down as it moves towards the center. -Tom Grimes ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 30 22:57:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA21424; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 22:57:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 22:57:27 -0800 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991231015451.00a4e690@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: rymel@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 01:57:24 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rymel Subject: Re: Railgun Website In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"QzaCq1.0.fE5.NF5Ru"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13449 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com while we're on the subject of railguns....does anybody else have any good links? i've been interested on this subject for a while, but could never find any good sites, or any that gave information on building a decent one. Tim's site was great though, a portable design that, if i could reproduce it, i could actually test it someplace where i wont put holes in the garage :) Don't know about most of you, but i live in a pretty populated area, i dont exactly have a roomy backyard or garage to work in, so a site about portable railguns is like a godsend to my interest, if you know what i mean... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 31 07:39:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA19776; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 07:39:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 07:39:03 -0800 From: Wellsprng5@aol.com Message-ID: <0.14b5393b.259e2810@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 10:38:56 EST Subject: Re: Off Topic (social equality) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Resent-Message-ID: <"hnwfk1.0.vq4.MuCRu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13450 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 12/30/99 2:36:14 PM Central Standard Time, MH2_BRIGGS@ODNVMS.A1.Ohio.Gov writes: << webriggs@concentric.net >> Thanks Bill for putting into words what I could not! Julie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 31 10:05:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA01710; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 10:05:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 10:05:42 -0800 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991231130516.00ad4200@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: rymel@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 13:05:41 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rymel Subject: Re: Railgun Website In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991231015451.00a4e690@pop.mindspring.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"zUnB92.0.dQ.r1FRu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13451 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tim, what's your email? the one in the body of the email doesn't seem to work for me. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 31 13:02:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA01814; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 13:02:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 13:02:07 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991231125855.00805100@mail.oz.net> X-Sender: coilgun@mail.oz.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 12:58:55 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Barry Hansen Subject: Re: Railgun Website links In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991231015451.00a4e690@pop.mindspring.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"yAlrq1.0.8S.EdHRu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13452 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I have a few railgun links you're welcome to pursue. I wouldn't call them "good" if you're looking for design principles or how-to info. But they're a good source of ideas. See http://www.oz.net/~coilgun/home.htm and follow the links to "Links" and then "Barry's Link Farm". Near the bottom of my link farm is a section on Railguns. Happy surfing, and happy new year! Barry PS - If you have links you want me to add, send private e-mail to coilgun@oz.net. At 01:57 AM 12/31/99 -0500, you wrote: >while we're on the subject of railguns....does anybody else have any good >links? i've been interested on this subject for a while, but could never >find any good sites, or any that gave information on building a decent >one. Tim's site was great though, a portable design that, if i could >reproduce it, i could actually test it someplace where i wont put holes in >the garage :) Don't know about most of you, but i live in a pretty >populated area, i dont exactly have a roomy backyard or garage to work in, >so a site about portable railguns is like a godsend to my interest, if you >know what i mean... > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 31 14:15:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA23810; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 14:15:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 14:15:54 -0800 Message-ID: <000201bf53dd$8c57b7e0$0ca270d1@acer> From: "sparky" To: , Cc: , Subject: Re: Atmospheric Energy Conversion Problem Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 10:31:41 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"aB2e8.0.xp5.OiIRu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13453 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tesla gave the answer. -----Original Message----- From: Bruce A. Perreault To: nuenergy@listbot.com Cc: nuenergy2@listbot.com ; freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 4:00 AM Subject: Atmospheric Energy Conversion Problem >Blockbuster Puzzle for Year 2000: > >The earth generates large electrostatic differences between >its atmosphere and surface. This is due to the fact >that the air has an excess of positive ions, while the >ground contains an excess of electrons. This field of ions >is measured at around 130-volts per meter of distance between >ground and sky. Very little current is measured between an >antenna wire strung up in the air and a grounding-rod. The >problem with tapping into this source of energy is that the >positive-ion density in the surrounding air is too low. This >results in almost zero charge flow from the ground ions towards >the positive atmospheric ions. > >There exists only one invention that has extracted a practical >amount of current from the earth’s electrostatic field. It is >the radiant energy receiver. The radiant energy receiver taps >into the earth’s electron reserve by dumping electrons into the >air. In doing this the device draws in replacement electrons from >the ground. Electric power is pumped by its circuitry. > >My question for the list is how can a device be built that does not >rely on radioactive material. I have this problem more than half >solved. Instead of bickering in the year 2000 let’s come up with >this answer. The answer would certainly transform the world. With >unlimited energy humanity could evolve in spite of the greed of the >filthy rich. It is a certainty that these kind folks will not want >to give up their slaves. There will be global madness for a time but >that is what change is all about. THe human race must evolve soon or >it is doomed to perish. Freedom is worth the price. No person on >earth has the right to live off another persons labor. > > > HAPPY YEAR 2000, > > -Bruce A. Perreault > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 31 17:00:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA05292; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 17:00:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 17:00:17 -0800 Message-ID: <20000101010009.42754.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.241] From: "Timothy Flytcher" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Railgun Website Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 17:00:09 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"DlOq82.0.TI1.T6LRu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13454 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I have three... flytch@hotmail.com >From: Rymel >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Railgun Website >Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 13:05:41 -0500 > >Tim, what's your email? the one in the body of the email doesn't seem to >work for me. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 31 21:11:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA01201; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 21:11:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 21:11:22 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 23:28:31 -0800 From: apc Subject: Re: Railgun Website To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-id: <386DAC9F.B6D9A35D@swbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <20000101010009.42754.qmail@hotmail.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"n19jK1.0.gI.wnORu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13455 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Do you have three railguns or three railgun web sites ? I am interested in this topic Darryl Timothy Flytcher wrote: > I have three... > flytch@hotmail.com > > >From: Rymel > >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > >Subject: Re: Railgun Website > >Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 13:05:41 -0500 > > > >Tim, what's your email? the one in the body of the email doesn't seem to > >work for me. > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com