From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 1 01:37:47 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id BAA19685; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 01:36:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 01:36:03 -0800 Message-ID: <002c01c3b7e6$24889dc0$3b10b83f@computer> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Weighing a Charged Metal Plate in a Closed Ice-Pail? Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 02:35:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94018f852c8b1c81878e2d45996b1d1cbe9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Resent-Message-ID: <"CzlmN.0.Jp4.2kmo_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52575 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: With the metal plate sitting on a scale inside the ice-pail, in electrical contact with the inside of the ice-pail (using a metal necklace chain) does the scale indicate a weight change when a potential (+ or - ) is applied to the pail? http://physics.usc.edu/demolab/e/e5/e5_4.html Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 1 07:39:36 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id HAA18387; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:35:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:35:22 -0800 Message-ID: <20031201153508.61426.qmail@web11706.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:35:08 -0800 (PST) From: alexander hollins Subject: Re: Just another cosmic catastrophe To: vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"wC6f12.0.4V4.v-ro_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52576 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: that would do it, but the ridges on site arent salts. but there is a similar structure in death valley that was made in just such a way. --- Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > In reply to Dean Miller's message of Tue, 25 Nov > 2003 03:39:09 -0600: > Hi, > [snip] > > >I haven't read all the references (and don't > completely understand > >those I read :), but ... how about a really, > really big lightning > >strike? (Really big) > [snip] > How about the progressive drying up of a circular > salt lake as the climate changed, resulting in the > deposition of different salts as their concentration > got too high around the edges where the water was > shallowest? > > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > A "must" read - "The New Rulers of the World" - John > Pilger > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 1 07:40:27 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id HAA19733; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:36:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:36:52 -0800 Message-ID: <002d01c3b81f$ae441420$8837fea9@cpq> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <008b01c3b79e$790cbea0$8837fea9@cpq> <200312010742.31207.knuke@sumosound.de> Subject: Re: Scaling the wall of LENR Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:27:47 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA19638 Resent-Message-ID: <"L03DR2.0.Aq4.J0so_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52577 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Huffman writes, > If nanotechnologies were developed to do this harvesting task, you > could conceivably capture the heat from generation sources that now > would not seem to be worth the effort. The Foresight Institute is > the group to watch in this regard. http://www.foresight.org > I check their website every so often to see what is new, but I haven't > done it for a while. About a year ago, they announced that they > would be releasing a whitepaper on the future role of cavitation in > the field of nanotechnology. Maybe it is about time I gave them > another look. There is a paper there which I downloaded: the Foresight White Paper on "Nanotechnology for Clean Energy and Resources" by Steve Gillett On a quick read, unfortunately, it appears to be long on summary and short on detail, like a typical governmental bureaucratic pork project. Nothing on cavitation which is of interest to many of us, nothing on CF or LENR, a little on redox and chemical separation which is of interest, but don't waste your time unless you have a high bandwidth connection.... Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 1 07:44:21 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id HAA23131; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:40:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:40:47 -0800 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20031201103724.00bad470@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:40:42 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Li paper in J. Phys. D: Appl. Phys. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA23084 Resent-Message-ID: <"_naof3.0.Hf5._3so_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52578 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Li et al published a paper on CF in J. Phys. D: Appl. Phys. 36 (2003) 3095–3097. It is available on line for a limited time here: http://stacks.iop.org/0022-3727/36/3095 Li told me the journal, "has a policy to allow me to put this paper in any webpages." So he said I can put it on LENR-CANR.org. That seems a little unlikely. I will ask the journal to be sure. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 1 08:18:01 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA14486; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:15:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:15:19 -0800 Message-ID: <004c01c3b825$0e04c440$8837fea9@cpq> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <002c01c3b7e6$24889dc0$3b10b83f@computer> Subject: Re: Weighing a Charged Metal Plate in a Closed Ice-Pail? Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:06:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id IAA14416 Resent-Message-ID: <"dtsip2.0.DY3.Maso_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52579 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick Sparber writes > With the metal plate sitting on a scale inside the ice-pail, in electrical contact > with the inside of the ice-pail (using a metal necklace chain) does the scale indicate > a weight change when a potential (+ or - ) is applied to the pail? Without even looking at the site, it is a sure bet that the answer is "yes" for at least for one of the polarities, or else you wouldn't have mentioned it So... how great is the weight change and is it only seen on one polarity? Inquiring minds want to know.... From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 1 08:37:02 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA24313; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:29:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:29:10 -0800 Message-ID: <005b01c3b826$fbe89e60$8837fea9@cpq> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20031201103724.00bad470@pop.mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Li paper in J. Phys. D: Appl. Phys. Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:20:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id IAA24110 Resent-Message-ID: <"lz2V11.0.px5.Lnso_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52580 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jed Rothwell writes, > Li et al published a paper on CF in J. Phys. D: Appl. Phys. 36 (2003) > 3095-3097. It is available on line for a limited time here: > > http://stacks.iop.org/0022-3727/36/3095 > > Li told me the journal, "has a policy to allow me to put this paper in any > webpages." So he said I can put it on LENR-CANR.org. That seems a little > unlikely. I will ask the journal to be sure. Very interesting. According to Li, there appears to be a "magic" temperature of sorts for certain D/Pd systems. "When the temperature approached 150°C the pressure in the reaction vessel started increasing quickly although the pump was still working continuously... the heat flow was confirmed 16 times with the same palladium tube under various D2 pressure differences." WOW ! The obvious question: is it self-sustaining? ...the answer: It would be interesting if we were able to maintain the temperature of the D/Pd system at a specific point, say 150°C, by the heat flow itself. We might then keep this exothermic process in a self-sustaining steady state. A new system has been designed to test this idea, and preliminary results are encouraging. Now that would really be a big story !! Jones BTW, any guesses about why *150 C* is where the anomaly occurs? From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 1 10:23:13 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA29590; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:16:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:16:18 -0800 Message-ID: <009e01c3b835$f00bf9c0$8837fea9@cpq> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20031201103724.00bad470@pop.mindspring.com> <005b01c3b826$fbe89e60$8837fea9@cpq> Subject: Is the " Li effect" a Casimir effect? Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:07:07 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id KAA29508 Resent-Message-ID: <"1rL4z.0.AE7.nLuo_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52581 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: As mentioned in previous posts, Li et al published a paper on CF in J. Phys. D: Appl. Phys. 36 (2003) 3095-3097. It is available on line for a limited time here: http://stacks.iop.org/0022-3727/36/3095 According to Li, there appears to be a "magic" temperature of sorts for certain D/Pd systems. "When the temperature approached 150°C the pressure in the reaction vessel started increasing quickly although the pump was still working continuously... the heat flow was confirmed 16 times with the same palladium tube under various D2 pressure differences." In the absence of authoritative guesses about why *150 C* is the temperature where the anomaly occurs, I will throw out a unusual possibility - "unusual" because it is not related to LENR, per se. Could this very exciting anomaly discovered by Li be related somehow to the Casimir effect? Why Casimir, you ask? Well, the Casimir effect "seems" to have a threshold spacing level at around 10 microns. I am not sure about whether or not an optimal spacing has ever been pinpointed, but for the sake of argument, let's say that 10 microns is definitely implicated in the Casimir effect. Although the temperature-wavelength connection may seem to be a stretch here, it should be noted that the IR heat that corresponds to a 10 micron wavelength is about 150°C but that could be coincidental. At any rate consider that: "For test mass separations below about 10 microns, the Casimir effect, a force which arises between conductors due to zero-point fluctuations of the electromagnetic field, becomes significant. While of experimental interest in its own right, the Casimir force presents a dominant background to experimental searches for new effects at very short ranges, and must either be precisely characterized or suppressed (or both) if these experiments are to attain greater sensitivity." Now the D2 gas as it transits the Pd tube is a conductor, for sure. The Pd may even be some kind of superconductor when fully loaded. Ergo, it may be somewhat more than coincidental that we see an effect in this range... and if so, the really interesting thing would be that it may be the first direct translation of the ZPF field into energy which is accessible in 3-space (IR heat). This looks to be very exciting research coming out of the People’s Republic of China. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 1 11:35:56 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id LAA12943; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:32:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:32:07 -0800 Sender: jack@mail3.centurytel.net Message-ID: <3FCB95E4.282697FD@centurytel.net> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 19:26:28 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Scaling the wall of LENR References: <008b01c3b79e$790cbea0$8837fea9@cpq> <200312010742.31207.knuke@sumosound.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="xm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="xm" Resent-Message-ID: <"_COLw.0.-93.sSvo_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52582 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jones Beene wrote: I wonder what exact circumstances (related to LENR) would benefit from "reverse economy of scale" besides maybe: ... ...can anyone out there in vortex-land ... think of other reasons that *reduced* size might be beneficial in LENR? Knuke {Michael Huffman) wrote: I agree with what Jones is saying, and think that this line of thought could prove to be beneficially applied to a number of endeavors. Some years ago, I was doing some reading on various cluster computing experiments performed by some of the university labs in the States. One of the more interesting experiments involved writing an operating system that would analyse broken or partially functioning computers, and make available the functioning parts of the individual computers to the overall cluster computing effort ... What was discovered was that the efficiency of the individual machines no longer mattered. Individual machines could well, indeed, stop functioning altogether, and the overall computing effort would continue. This made the overall computing effort independent of any given machine, increasing the reliability of the cluster itself. If this concept were to be applied to the field of energy production ... Hi Jones, Reduced size would make it possible to replace AA and AAA bateries in the electronic equipment we use today, as well as replace car batteries with somehing smaller, making the electric car really practical. On another subject, you wrote: In fact, there is plenty of present-day contrarian evidence that even now, globally, we are approaching a cooling-off period, not a net-warming. In this longer-term scenario, North America should be covered by a thick ice sheet extending well down into the mid-west... and as for Cleveland... forget lake-effect snow, you would be under several hundred feet of advancing ice pushing down from a depopulated Canada... Jack writes: The ice sheet advancing from Canada is one theory. Another scenario is that the Arctic ice cap melted, but the Arctic remained cold. The result was "lake effect" snow of almost unimaginable magnitude which may have blanketed Cleveland with fifty feet of snow in July, reflecting sunlight into space. In a relatively few years, there was a mile-high sheet of ice formed in place, to stay for "100,000" years. The "lake effect" snow stopped when the Arctic Ocean froze over again. The conveyor-belt action of ice melting under pressure at the bottom of the sheet was responsible for the glacial grooves and the deposit of materials from many thousands of miles away at the terminal moraine in Ohio. The "lake effect" theory does not explain the end of the last ice age. The ocean current theory is a more comprehensive explanation for rapid climate change. (See http://www.avonhistory.org/hist/lakes3.htm). I still favor changes in solar output as the driving force for the whole process. Professor Maureen Raymo has data showing that the Himalayan rock face is supplying salts which react with dissolved CO2 to form carbonates which are sequestered in sea shells. As the Indian plate continues to ram into the Asian plate, more rock face is exposed. An "ice ball" Earth is a logical result of this process unless there is a deliberate human effort to put more CO2 (and CH4) into the air. An adherent of the Gaia theory might argue that Earth produced a fire-making creature to avoid the ice ball fate. (Nick Lane in "Oxygen" -- available at http://www.amazon.com, has some really mind-blowing stuff on the ice ball Earth.) On this subject from another angle, you wrote: ... according to one estimate in the article - it was many times more intense than the flux in nuclear reactors if it were instantaneous,... and it probably was instantaneous as it was localized, whereas a longer-term cosmic discharge could not be so localized - so it was very much like a nuclear weapon in its neutron effects. Robin van Spaandonk wrote: How about the progressive drying up of a circular salt lake as the climate changed, resulting in the deposition of different salts as their concentration got too high around the edges where the water was shallowest? alexander hollins wrote: That would do it, but the ridges on site arent salts. but there is a similar structure in death valley that was made in just such a way. Hi again Jones, I'll repeat my question: Is there any evidence for this event in the Greenland ice cores? Jack Smith From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 1 14:39:02 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id OAA14563; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:36:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:36:03 -0800 Message-ID: <003101c3b85b$6704ac00$077cccd1@MIKEBY3NR533HT> From: "Mike Carrell" To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20031201103724.00bad470@pop.mindspring.com> <005b01c3b826$fbe89e60$8837fea9@cpq> Subject: Re: Li paper in J. Phys. D: Appl. Phys. Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:14:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Resent-Message-ID: <"imA3q1.0.SZ3.J9yo_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52583 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jones wrote: > Jed Rothwell writes, > > > Li et al published a paper on CF in J. Phys. D: Appl. Phys. 36 (2003) > > 3095-3097. It is available on line for a limited time here: > > > > http://stacks.iop.org/0022-3727/36/3095 > > > > Li told me the journal, "has a policy to allow me to put this paper in any > > webpages." So he said I can put it on LENR-CANR.org. That seems a little > > unlikely. I will ask the journal to be sure. > > > Very interesting. According to Li, there appears to be a "magic" temperature of sorts for certain D/Pd systems. > > "When the temperature approached 150°C the pressure in the reaction vessel started increasing quickly although the pump was still working continuously... the heat flow was confirmed 16 times with the same palladium tube under various D2 pressure differences." > > WOW ! The obvious question: is it self-sustaining? > > ...the answer: > It would be interesting if we were able > to maintain the temperature of the D/Pd system at a specific > point, say 150°C, by the heat flow itself. We might then keep > this exothermic process in a self-sustaining steady state. A new > system has been designed to test this idea, and preliminary > results are encouraging. > > Now that would really be a big story !! > > Jones > > BTW, any guesses about why *150 C* is where the anomaly occurs? ----------------------------------- Anybody remember the Case cell? Jed and I were at ICCF-7 where Case had his poster session. By systematic exploration, Case had found that when his catalyst -- Pd finely dispersed on a carbonaceous base -- was heated to the 120-150C range, he got excess heat. The cell sat on simple heater, the the excess heat was seen by a reduction in the applied power necessary to maintain that temperature once the critical temperature was reached. So far as I know, Case was never able to get enough heat release to make the cell self sustaining, maintaining its elevated temperature with no input power. Mike Carrell > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 1 14:47:24 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id OAA21126; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:44:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:44:52 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002401c3b083$434f9840$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> References: <20031121.144119.-2008097.1.wardsworld@juno.com> <002401c3b083$434f9840$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:45:53 -0600 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: thomas malloy Subject: Re: Re: neat observation Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1141803735==_ma============" X-DCC-CPI-Metrics: Clear 1161; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Resent-Message-ID: <"Zt2Bc1.0.w95.ZHyo_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52584 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --============_-1141803735==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Ward Johanson posted; Jeff Fink replied >? >We wouldn't have lost the World Trade Center in 2001, or or have to >prove ourselves in Iraq if we had shown some resolve (leadership) in >Somalia or picked up Bin Laden when we had him handed to us during >the Clinton administration. I will > >PROBLEM IN AMERICA IS OUR LEADERSHIP VACUUM! G.W.BUSH IS THE WORST >PRESIDENT IN MY LIFETIME! Ward's comments on our leadership are not with out merit. However the pilot light that enflamed the Islamic world was the State of Israel, which some of us is there by divine appointment. --============_-1141803735==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Re: Re: neat observation
Ward Johanson posted;

Jeff Fink replied

?
We wouldn't have lost the World Trade Center in 2001, or or have to prove ourselves in Iraq if we had shown some resolve (leadership) in Somalia or picked up Bin Laden when we had him handed to us during the Clinton administration.  I will

PROBLEM IN AMERICA IS OUR LEADERSHIP VACUUM!  G.W.BUSH IS THE WORST PRESIDENT IN MY LIFETIME!

Ward's comments on our leadership are not with out merit. However the pilot light that enflamed the Islamic world was the State of Israel, which some of us is there by divine appointment.


--============_-1141803735==_ma============-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 1 14:58:55 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id OAA28147; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:55:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:55:42 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:56:30 -0600 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: thomas malloy Subject: radio nuclide remediation Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-DCC-CPI-Metrics: Clear 1161; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Resent-Message-ID: <"fHNDV2.0.Ct6.iRyo_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52585 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I think everyone will agree that getting rid of the existing radio active waste would be a good thing. While searching the LENR website, I read in interesting article by Vysotskii on controlling the spontaneous decay of radio nuclides. They were presented at the 2003 conference. The biological system is quite understandable. The second article talks about longitudinal waves, and a crystal. Based on the title, I would assume that the decay of the waste is accelerated, but you know what happens when you assume. I'm even more curious about that appears to be a crystalline structure. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 1 19:08:02 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id TAA25947; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:05:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:05:32 -0800 Message-ID: <00fd01c3b87f$e12d36e0$8837fea9@cpq> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20031201103724.00bad470@pop.mindspring.com> <005b01c3b826$fbe89e60$8837fea9@cpq> <003101c3b85b$6704ac00$077cccd1@MIKEBY3NR533HT> Subject: Re: Li paper in J. Phys. D: Appl. Phys. Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:56:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA25873 Resent-Message-ID: <"cYOvy.0.6L6.x50p_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52586 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mike > > BTW, any guesses about why *150 C* is where the anomaly occurs? > ----------------------------------- > > Anybody remember the Case cell? Jed and I were at ICCF-7 where Case had his > poster session. By systematic exploration, Case had found that when his > catalyst -- Pd finely dispersed on a carbonaceous base -- was heated to the > 120-150C range, he got excess heat. The cell sat on simple heater, the the > excess heat was seen by a reduction in the applied power necessary to > maintain that temperature once the critical temperature was reached. So far > as I know, Case was never able to get enough heat release to make the cell > self sustaining, maintaining its elevated temperature with no input power. Yes, you are correct about the similarity of that experiment with this new heat anomaly effect, the major difference is lack of carbon in the Li cell... therefore, if the effect is real, it should probably be attributed to Les Case, despite his insistence that carbon is necessary, and Case's cell was apparently replicated successfully by Russ George, but not by EarthTech nor by IE: http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue25/deviceupdate.html A careful look at all the variables which are seen in these various experiments might help to pinpoint the problem of reproducibility. Li apparently got 16 out of 16 successes with his cell, and was able to precisely discover the critical temperature which seems much narrower than Case's wide range (maybe that's a reason his work was not as easy to replicate).... One thing does come to mind in analysis of this effect (because of a recent posting). Given the small size and simplicity of the Li cell, I wonder if this could also be an example of "reverse economy of scale"? In other words, the experiment only works at a certain small geometry, for whatever reason ... Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 10:01:07 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id JAA05006; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:57:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:57:59 -0800 Message-ID: <005501c3b8fc$a13ceda0$8837fea9@cpq> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: Towards a prototype Case/ Li effect heater Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:49:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id JAA04970 Resent-Message-ID: <"tD3KH.0.7E1.cADp_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52587 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: One further train of thought on the Li et al paper in J. Phys. D: Appl. Phys. 36 (2003) 3095-3097.:http://stacks.iop.org/0022-3727/36/3095 According to Li, and possibly the earlier work of Les Case, there appears to be a "magic" temperature for certain D/Pd systems where a substantial exothermic heat anomaly is seen, even in the absence of applied power. Li sees some likelihood that it could be self-sustaining. This kind of fits in with the "heat-after-death" phenomenon. "When the temperature approached 150°C the pressure in the reaction vessel started increasing quickly although the pump was still working continuously... the heat flow was confirmed 16 times with the same palladium tube under various D2 pressure differences." The power density in terms of BTU/gram of active material here is not stated but is obviously extremely high, given the paucity of reactants, nearly comparable - one suspects, to what is found in a uranium fission reactor, though probably self-quenching at a certain level - therefore, the same two big "ifs" which are found in advancing any form of CF present themselves with this simpler reactor: IF the exothermic reaction can be maintained over considerable time spans with only modest energy input (some kind of pressure differential) and IF substitute active materials can be found for Pd, then it should be possible to economically extract "process heat" up to a temperature of several hindered degrees F (somewhat less than 150°C or 300 F), enough for home-heating and perhaps even for modest conversion into electricity if advanced thermoelectric converters become a reality. If true, of course, this is basically "like" electrolytic CF but without the electrolysis! Could it really be that the only purpose of the electric current in normal CF is to load the electrodes and maintain a pressure differential? If so, it is clear that there are easier and more efficient ways to accomplish both tasks. The near future will tell us if this Case/Li effect is a robust effect - But we can ask if it is presently too early to take Johnny Moondog's advice and "imagine" how this technique could be applied in practical terms ? I think not - it is never too early if one trusts the underlying experiment, and the Li work appears more than adequate, but of course, it needs (begs) to be reproduced by others. Even so, jumping-the-gun by a few years, here is one "imagined" manifestation of a Case/Li prototype heat engine (I am reluctant yet to call it LENR, despite R. George's finding of He because it could be based (in part) on another modality such as the Casimir effect, a QM effect or a hydrino effect). The main problem in going from an experiment to a prototype unit, say of 5-10 kW capacity seems to be in avoiding too much parasitic energy loss due to pumping (but there is an elegant solution to that) and in finding alternative active materials to Pd. Ti is a candidate active material, as is Cd. Many perovskite materials have been found to be active for some amount of excess heat. Mizuno has had success using a mixture of strontium, cerium, yttrium and niobium oxides. LaO3 is reportedly active. Boron containing materials made at NR are active. In practice this would be a laborious trial and error process, but one would start with the assumption that any number of proton conductors would be candidate materials with or with out some additional Pd. If Pd could be limited to less than a gram per 10 kW of output then even it could be a used despite the high expected price. Due to the large amount of research currently going on for fuel-cell applications, which should be directly transferable, it is even possible that in the near future we will be overwhelmed with any number of excellent moderately-expensive active proton conductors. Not all proton concoctors will be active for excess heat but many will, esp. with small additions. Ed Storms talks about this in an older paper: http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/papers/storms/review8.html but since then a number of exciting candidate materials have come into focus. Now to the "grits" of the imagined reactor. Two factors may be important in this design : 1) a high pressure differential 2) small scale geometry If a small geometry is important than we will be talking about many small cells in one heating unit, maybe as many as several hundred to several thousand. Also the implication of the small geometry is to maximize the surface area of the active material. This implies using it as a finely divided particulate, a.k.a. a "black" or a "dust" ULTRASONIC PLASMA DUST MULTIPLE-CELL HEATING UNIT The reactor consists of a rigid multi-cell structure driven by a high output piezo-transducer on one or more axis. In a 10 kW (thermal) unit, 1-2 kW could be parasitic electrical power from ConEd or any of the other Cons, which is used to drive the transducers and the fans needed to remove heat from the reactor. The reactor could be made of die-cast aluminum with a grid of say, 20x20 of spherical cavities cast into the form, each giving 25 watts of heat (a resonant and spherical structure is critical for a focused pressure differential in a central active zone (ala sonofusion). Each of the 400 cells would contain less than a gram an active perovskite metalloid, already loaded with deuterium gas with some excess gas present at less than 1 atm of pressure. The active material would be in the form of a "dust" and probably a particle size of very near 10 microns should be maintained. The transducer would provide the internal pressure differential by means of kinetic pressure waves; and the transducer also gives some amount of heating, less than 10% of the total heat output. Each heating unit would have a fan to remove excess heat and complicated electronics to precisely maintain all the variables. The energy savings of such a unit over natural gas are several thousand $ per year per household, so a big problem that soon crops up is political. The market reaction of a supply and demand situation would be for natural gas prices to crash, with the side-effect that the technology would die an early death... afterwards, then the price of NG would soar again. Here is where taxation can have a positive benefit. We would have to tax natural gas to maintain a high competitive advantage for the alternative heat source, and funnel some of that tax revenue back to the producers of these heaters. All said, this will never happen with the present administration. But that is the plaintive beauty of the imagination, set starkly against an imperfect world. It may not really solve any problems today but it may provide some tentative wisp of hopefulness... well, at least it works for me... Jones Imagine no possessions, I wonder if you can, No need for greed or hunger, A brotherhood of man, Imagine all the people Sharing all the world... You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one, I hope some day you'll join us, And the world will live as one. - John "moondog" Lennon, ... brutally murdered in 1981 by Mark David Chapman, who has been eligible for parole for 2 years now - his next hearing is scheduled for October 2004. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 10:34:00 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA28954; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:31:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:31:19 -0800 Message-ID: <3FCCDA75.5000109@rtpatlanta.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:31:17 -0500 From: "Terry Blanton" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Segway Battlebots Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"H-JHr1.0.F47.tfDp_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52588 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Segway hasn't changed society, but it could change the battlefield: http://www.msnbc.com/news/999912.asp?0cv=CB20 From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 13:20:21 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id NAA14859; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:17:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:17:08 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Segway Battlebots Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:33:52 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <3FCCDA75.5000109@rtpatlanta.com> Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"UPk012.0.4e3.J5Gp_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52589 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Terry. You can have the Segway. I'll take a pair of these http://www.keyscorner.com/archives/000134.php I've seen the non-powered version demonstrated on the boardwalk of Coney Island, by a small group of enthusiasts. It was like watching a pack of velociraptors run down small game. The petrol powered ones must be stunning. Given that 2 million years of evolution has produced some of the most sleek and mobile organic moving machines on the planet, you'd think engineers would take the hint and design accordingly. Naw, lets put wheels on everything! We'll worry about how to pave the entire earth later (smile). And you could well argue, we're almost there. K. -----Original Message----- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:blantont@rtpatlanta.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 1:31 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Segway Battlebots Segway hasn't changed society, but it could change the battlefield: http://www.msnbc.com/news/999912.asp?0cv=CB20 From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 13:49:22 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id NAA03889; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:45:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:45:29 -0800 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20031202164213.00bad728@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:45:21 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Uploaded new files Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"YZpsb.0.Ky.sVGp_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52590 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I uploaded several new files to LENR-CANR.org. I do not know much about them. Here are the filenames: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/KimYEexperiment.pdf http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/KimYEquantumman.pdf http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/KarabutABexperimenta.pdf http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/KarabutABexperiment.pdf http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/KozimaHcfmatteran.pdf http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Kirkinskiicalculatio.pdf http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LiuBtriggering.pdf http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/DeNinnoAhedetectio.pdf http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/DelGiudicearenuclear.pdf The De Ninno one describes remarkable experiments that confirm the heat and helium connection. Voting machines are off-topic topic that has come up here from time to time. Here is a hair-raising article about them from the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/02/opinion/02KRUG.html - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 14:56:07 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id OAA14343; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:49:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:49:32 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:48:32 +0000 (UTC) From: John Schnurer To: Vortex , Schnurer Subject: Radioactive material remediation Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"UsiHi3.0.wV3.xRHp_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52591 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vo., For many years now the work of Wm Barker has been in the public domain. The method alters the coulomb barrier and permits the alteration of the rate of radioactive decay. The method was described in Barker's patent. I contacted Barker and asked if it was "OK" to further, or attempt to further the work. With the blessing of Barker and his brother I altered the art and attempted to replicate his findings. The 2 cents "bottom line" is: (A) With new art Barker's work works (B) With the extant art the work works. (C) A recap of Barker's work: 1] A small piece of Radioactive Material about 2 mm by 2 mm by 2 mm or 2mm cubic is used as test example and a similar sized control of the same material is retained to use as a reference. 2] RM = Radioactive Material, the 2mm cubic sample is called RMS, or Radioactive Material Sample for this discussion. The RMS is placed in a high voltage low current electric charge field gradient. 3] The field gradient is applied for 14 hours, one time and No Further Electric Field is Applied at any time for the entire balance of the experiment. 4] After 2 days a change in the number of counts per second, or the rate of decay is observed. 5] After 11 months the RMS is at background level. Please contact me off line if this is of interest. JH From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 2 21:00:45 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id UAA31852; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:57:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:57:40 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:57:23 -0600 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: "JNPCo." Subject: *****THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN: DONE. LINK TO NEW VIDEO! Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1141695048==_ma============" Resent-Message-ID: <"SMb5V2.0.Xn7.3rMp_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52592 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --============_-1141695048==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" * * * * * * * * * See a new video of the NEWMAN ENERGY MACHINE that will turn salt water to fresh water - power homes, factories, ships, trains, planes, vehicles, and cities - provide all the world's power supplies and eliminate pollution - and re-charge its own power system at the same time! The process of going public and into mass world production is now underway. At the top of the website URL provided below, click on the link to a recent video of the latest demonstration of this revolutionary technology: http://www.josephnewman.com The video shows the newest 7,000-lb Newman Energy Machine with a 450-lb flywheel and a 1,250-lb rotor physically connected to the shaft of a conventional generator that subsequently powers lights, televisions, clocks, etc. Total watts IN: 400 watts. Total watts OUT: 4,000 watts. This technology can now be immediately implemented to power the world's energy needs and replace ALL conventional energy sources. * * * * * * * * * --============_-1141695048==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Arial* * *=20 * * * * * * See a new video of the=20 FFFF,0000,0000NEWMAN ENERGY MACHINE=20 that will turn salt water to fresh water -=20 power homes, factories, ships, trains, planes, vehicles, and cities -=20 provide all the world's power supplies and eliminate pollution -=20 and re-charge its own power system at the same time! The process of going public and into mass world production is now underway. At the top of the website URL provided below, click on the link to a recent video=20 of the latest demonstration of this revolutionary technology: http://www.josephnewman.com 0000,0000,FFFFThe video shows the newest 7,000-lb Newman Energy Machine with a 450-lb flywheel and a 1,250-lb rotor physically connected to the shaft of a conventional generator=20 that subsequently powers lights, televisions, clocks, etc. FFFF,0000,0000Total watts IN: 400 watts. Total watts OUT: 4,000 watts. 0000,0000,FFFFThis technology can now be immediately implemented to power the world's energy needs=20 and replace ALL conventional energy sources. * * * * * * * * * =20
Aria= l --============_-1141695048==_ma============-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 07:38:27 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id HAA21611; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:34:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:34:23 -0800 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20031203102143.00bac840@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 10:34:19 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Miles letter in C&EN Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"mC3kv.0.VH5._9Wp_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52593 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chemical & Engineering News published a letter by Melvin Miles about cold fusion. I do not have a copy, but Mel told me it mentions LENR-CANR. That may explain a small upsurge in activities. I will ask him for a copy to be posted here. Incidentally, the C&EN cover story is about a topic I mentioned here the other day, "molecular assemblers": http://pubs.acs.org/cen/coverstory/8148/8148counterpoint.html This is a point, count-point discussion. One of the authors makes the valid point that it is impossible to imagine a technology capable of assembling molecules, and he challenges his opponent to describe a system other than the water based biological (DNA - RNA) assemblers. He is right, but he misses the point. Arthur Clarke once wrote about the arguments people make against interplanetary and interstellar space travel, saying they boil down to: "blimps will never fly faster than the speed of sound." Yes, we know that. Something else may, however. "Molecular assemblers" may be fundamentally impossible for some reason, or humans may never figure out how to make them, but I would not bet on that outcome. The fact that water-based system exist is good evidence that others can, in principle, exist. Perhaps some other liquid or gas could be used? - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 08:02:24 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id HAA04310; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:58:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:58:34 -0800 Message-ID: <003301c3b9b5$1b1fe4c0$8837fea9@cpq> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20031203102143.00bac840@pop.mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Miles letter in C&EN Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:49:58 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA04255 Resent-Message-ID: <"BjnuW2.0.A31.gWWp_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52594 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell writes, > The fact that water-based system exist is good evidence that others can, in principle, exist. Perhaps some other liquid or gas could be used? ...or, the more obvious solution, 1) Assemble in water 2) Remove from water, dry and use kinda reminds one of how he/she personally arrived, eh... don't laugh... the next generation of "easily to assemble" holiday toys may involve some kind of nano-warrior battlefield that is self-assembled from proteins, using home-computer control and then viewed with a microscope connected to the child's play-computer (no doubt, a terahertz, self-programming machine) Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 08:25:57 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA19499; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:22:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:22:11 -0800 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20031203111140.01dad698@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:22:10 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Molecular assemblers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"7h_H9.0.am4.psWp_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52595 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jones Beene writes: > > The fact that water-based system exist is good evidence that others can, in principle, exist. Perhaps some other liquid or gas could be used? > > > ...or, the more obvious solution, > 1) Assemble in water > 2) Remove from water, dry and use The guy arguing against the technology discusses this. He says the system will require enzymes, or something functionally similar to them, and: "Any such system will need a liquid medium. For the enzymes we know about, that liquid will have to be water, and the types of things that can be synthesized with water around cannot be much broader than the meat and bone of biology." I think his point is valid. Biology has had billions of years to develop materials, and evolution ensures than anything that can be made will be made. Biology has developed many highly unlikely devices including electric storage batteries (electric eels), lenses, microscopic wheels (rotating flagella), but almost nothing made of metal, and I doubt biology could ever develop a radio. My guess is that molecular assemblers will require some technology we cannot even imagine yet. However, unlike antigravity machines or wormholes in space -- for which there is no evidence whenever, as far as I know -- we have seen naturally occurring processes that assemble things molecule by molecule. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 08:48:48 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA04021; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:44:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:44:55 -0800 Message-ID: <007701c3b9bb$93512f20$8837fea9@cpq> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20031203111140.01dad698@pop.mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Molecular assemblers Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:36:16 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id IAA03957 Resent-Message-ID: <"xamLD2.0.j-.7CXp_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52596 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell writes, > Biology has developed many highly unlikely devices including electric > storage batteries (electric eels), lenses, microscopic wheels (rotating > flagella), but almost nothing made of metal, and I doubt biology could ever > develop a radio. Who need metal? For strength, spider's silk is 10 times stronger than steel For electrical conductivity, the potassium channel is not only adequate but self-powered. For hardness, dental enamel is adequate And, as for radio... well, without getting too far out there in regard to psi, don't be too sure that some forms of psychic ability aren't the first tentative evolutionary steps towards evolving this ability. Since advanced intelligence is a precursor to this kind of information transfer, evolution has only had a few hundred thousand years to work on the problem, but some folks claim to be getting there already... and Sheldrake presents some good evidence for a form of psi in pets... Jones Having said all that, I get his point... but the perspective seems to come from a materials engineer rather than a biologist... From vortex-l-request@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE Wed Dec 3 10:09:08 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA14549; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:03:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:03:27 -0800 Message-ID: <3FCE20FF.1000001@pobox.com> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:44:31 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Molecular assemblers References: <5.2.0.9.2.20031203111140.01dad698@pop.mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20031203111140.01dad698@pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rm63v1.0.MY3.YLYp_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE Reply-To: vortex-l@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52598 X-Loop: vortex-l@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > > [...] Biology has had billions of years to develop > materials, and evolution ensures than anything that can be made will be > made. Biology has developed many highly unlikely devices including > electric storage batteries (electric eels), lenses, microscopic wheels > (rotating flagella), but almost nothing made of metal, and I doubt > biology could ever develop a radio. Well, no radio, it's true. But IIRC some birds have quite functional builtin magnetic compasses. A pigeons loses its homing ability if an electrified coil of wire is placed around its head, to prevent it from sensing the earth's magnetic field. I think I recall reading they use little bits of ferrite to sense the magnetic field. And of course sharks have an electrical sense which allows them to detect the nervous system activity of their prey, even when the prey is buried in sand or otherwise concealed. No metal wires, no obvious antenna, but it's still an effective low-frequency EM radiation receiver. That sort of sense occurs in a number of fish; I don't know if anyone's ever really investigated the possibility that some creatures might emit signals specifically to be received by such a sense. From vortex-digest-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 10:09:11 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA19941 for billb@eskimo.com; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:09:10 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:09:10 -0800 X-Envelope-From: vortex-l-request@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE Wed Dec 3 10:03:27 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA14549; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:03:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:03:27 -0800 Message-ID: <3FCE20FF.1000001@pobox.com> Old-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:44:31 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Molecular assemblers References: <5.2.0.9.2.20031203111140.01dad698@pop.mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20031203111140.01dad698@pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rm63v1.0.MY3.YLYp_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE Reply-To: vortex-l@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52598 X-Loop: vortex-l@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Envelope-To: vortex-digest Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > > [...] Biology has had billions of years to develop > materials, and evolution ensures than anything that can be made will be > made. Biology has developed many highly unlikely devices including > electric storage batteries (electric eels), lenses, microscopic wheels > (rotating flagella), but almost nothing made of metal, and I doubt > biology could ever develop a radio. Well, no radio, it's true. But IIRC some birds have quite functional builtin magnetic compasses. A pigeons loses its homing ability if an electrified coil of wire is placed around its head, to prevent it from sensing the earth's magnetic field. I think I recall reading they use little bits of ferrite to sense the magnetic field. And of course sharks have an electrical sense which allows them to detect the nervous system activity of their prey, even when the prey is buried in sand or otherwise concealed. No metal wires, no obvious antenna, but it's still an effective low-frequency EM radiation receiver. That sort of sense occurs in a number of fish; I don't know if anyone's ever really investigated the possibility that some creatures might emit signals specifically to be received by such a sense. From vortex-l-request@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE Wed Dec 3 10:09:57 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA15250; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:03:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:03:58 -0800 Message-ID: <20031203174746.559.qmail@web11706.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:47:46 -0800 (PST) From: alexander hollins Subject: Re: Molecular assemblers To: vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20031203111140.01dad698@pop.mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"6Ttyz3.0.rj3.9MYp_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE Reply-To: vortex-l@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52599 X-Loop: vortex-l@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE Status: O X-Status: errm,,, blood? bones? chlorophyll? theres metal in all of them... --- Jed Rothwell wrote: > Jones Beene writes: > > > > The fact that water-based system exist is good > evidence that others > can, in principle, exist. Perhaps some other liquid > or gas could be used? > > > > > > ...or, the more obvious solution, > > 1) Assemble in water > > 2) Remove from water, dry and use > > The guy arguing against the technology discusses > this. He says the system > will require enzymes, or something functionally > similar to them, and: > > "Any such system will need a liquid medium. For the > enzymes we know about, > that liquid will have to be water, and the types of > things that can be > synthesized with water around cannot be much broader > than the meat and bone > of biology." > > I think his point is valid. Biology has had billions > of years to develop > materials, and evolution ensures than anything that > can be made will be > made. Biology has developed many highly unlikely > devices including electric > storage batteries (electric eels), lenses, > microscopic wheels (rotating > flagella), but almost nothing made of metal, and I > doubt biology could ever > develop a radio. > > My guess is that molecular assemblers will require > some technology we > cannot even imagine yet. However, unlike antigravity > machines or wormholes > in space -- for which there is no evidence whenever, > as far as I know -- we > have seen naturally occurring processes that > assemble things molecule by > molecule. > > - Jed > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From vortex-digest-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 10:10:00 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA20581 for billb@eskimo.com; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:09:59 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:09:59 -0800 X-Envelope-From: vortex-l-request@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE Wed Dec 3 10:03:58 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA15250; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:03:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:03:58 -0800 Message-ID: <20031203174746.559.qmail@web11706.mail.yahoo.com> Old-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:47:46 -0800 (PST) From: alexander hollins Subject: Re: Molecular assemblers To: vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20031203111140.01dad698@pop.mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"6Ttyz3.0.rj3.9MYp_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE Reply-To: vortex-l@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52599 X-Loop: vortex-l@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Envelope-To: vortex-digest Status: O X-Status: errm,,, blood? bones? chlorophyll? theres metal in all of them... --- Jed Rothwell wrote: > Jones Beene writes: > > > > The fact that water-based system exist is good > evidence that others > can, in principle, exist. Perhaps some other liquid > or gas could be used? > > > > > > ...or, the more obvious solution, > > 1) Assemble in water > > 2) Remove from water, dry and use > > The guy arguing against the technology discusses > this. He says the system > will require enzymes, or something functionally > similar to them, and: > > "Any such system will need a liquid medium. For the > enzymes we know about, > that liquid will have to be water, and the types of > things that can be > synthesized with water around cannot be much broader > than the meat and bone > of biology." > > I think his point is valid. Biology has had billions > of years to develop > materials, and evolution ensures than anything that > can be made will be > made. Biology has developed many highly unlikely > devices including electric > storage batteries (electric eels), lenses, > microscopic wheels (rotating > flagella), but almost nothing made of metal, and I > doubt biology could ever > develop a radio. > > My guess is that molecular assemblers will require > some technology we > cannot even imagine yet. However, unlike antigravity > machines or wormholes > in space -- for which there is no evidence whenever, > as far as I know -- we > have seen naturally occurring processes that > assemble things molecule by > molecule. > > - Jed > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From vortex-l-request@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE Wed Dec 3 10:10:03 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA14663; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:03:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:03:30 -0800 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20031203115806.00baccc0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:13:03 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Molecular assemblers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"e8EMB.0.NW3.eLYp_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE Reply-To: vortex-l@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52597 X-Loop: vortex-l@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene writes: > Who need metal? > > For strength, spider's silk is 10 times stronger than steel > > For electrical conductivity, the potassium channel is not only adequate but self-powered. > > For hardness, dental enamel is adequate An interesting perspective. It could make a fascinating trajectory of history. People started out manufacturing nearly every object at home from organic materials such as wood and bone, then we went to centralized factories using mainly inorganic materials. Perhaps in the end we will return to organic materials manufactured at home. However, I predict we will not be satisfied with organic materials, and we will eventually find a way to assemble anything atom-by-atom, including ourselves. Moreover, we will find a way to *keep objects just as they are*, with each atom frozen in position (or replaced automatically), as predicted in "The City and the Stars" by you-know-who. Other progress in atomic engineering was reported recently, in a project at Rensselaer Polytechnic University. They are working on teraherz radiation nondestructive imaging techniques to examine every molecule in a solid sample. See: http://www.rpi.edu/web/Campus.News/dec_03/dec_1/terahertz.html - Jed From vortex-digest-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 10:10:09 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA20787 for billb@eskimo.com; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:10:08 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:10:08 -0800 X-Envelope-From: vortex-l-request@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE Wed Dec 3 10:03:30 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA14663; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:03:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:03:30 -0800 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20031203115806.00baccc0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Old-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:13:03 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Molecular assemblers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"e8EMB.0.NW3.eLYp_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE Reply-To: vortex-l@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52597 X-Loop: vortex-l@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@INSERT.YOUR.MAIL.DOMAIN.HERE X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Envelope-To: vortex-digest Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene writes: > Who need metal? > > For strength, spider's silk is 10 times stronger than steel > > For electrical conductivity, the potassium channel is not only adequate but self-powered. > > For hardness, dental enamel is adequate An interesting perspective. It could make a fascinating trajectory of history. People started out manufacturing nearly every object at home from organic materials such as wood and bone, then we went to centralized factories using mainly inorganic materials. Perhaps in the end we will return to organic materials manufactured at home. However, I predict we will not be satisfied with organic materials, and we will eventually find a way to assemble anything atom-by-atom, including ourselves. Moreover, we will find a way to *keep objects just as they are*, with each atom frozen in position (or replaced automatically), as predicted in "The City and the Stars" by you-know-who. Other progress in atomic engineering was reported recently, in a project at Rensselaer Polytechnic University. They are working on teraherz radiation nondestructive imaging techniques to examine every molecule in a solid sample. See: http://www.rpi.edu/web/Campus.News/dec_03/dec_1/terahertz.html - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 14:21:58 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id OAA19056; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:17:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:17:38 -0800 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20031203171608.01dad898@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 17:17:40 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Zero cost oscilloscope Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"MY1Pq1.0.if4.24cp_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: It don't get any cheaper than this! Thanks to Mark Hugo for pointing out: http://www.mitedu.freeserve.co.uk/Prac/winscope.htm - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 14:58:57 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id OAA12072; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:55:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:55:21 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@highsurf.com@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20031203171608.01dad898@pop.mindspring.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20031203171608.01dad898@pop.mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:58:00 -1000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Zero cost oscilloscope Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Resent-Message-ID: <"QouZs3.0.ay2.Odcp_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52600 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I like it! Thanks. Here's the actual downloads page where the file is listed: http://www.mitedu.freeserve.co.uk/Downloads/download.htm - RM Honolulu, HI >It don't get any cheaper than this! Thanks to Mark Hugo for pointing out: > >http://www.mitedu.freeserve.co.uk/Prac/winscope.htm > >- Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 16:55:42 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id QAA08319; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:53:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:53:14 -0800 Message-ID: <004c01c3b9ff$caf41a20$8837fea9@cpq> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: Re: Molecular assemblers Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:44:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA08257 Resent-Message-ID: <"WrkSy3.0.t12.vLep_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52601 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For Knuke and everyone who is interested in all the ramifications of nanotech, an interesting thread has sprung up on Slashdot http://science.slashdot.org/science/03/12/03/1341228.shtml?tid=126&tid=134&tid=191 Jones Don't you just love it that one of the pioneers of the field is named... what else...Smalley - another one of those supposedly coincidental "names that work" he is a professor at Rice University and winner of the 1996 Nobel Prize in Chemistry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 3 18:57:14 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id SAA19263; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 18:49:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 18:49:10 -0800 Message-ID: <3FCEA097.6090004@pobox.com> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 21:48:55 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Molecular assemblers References: <5.2.0.9.2.20031203111140.01dad698@pop.mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20031203111140.01dad698@pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jhKs92.0.ti4.b2gp_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52602 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: [I never saw the echo back from this -- after several hours -- so I'm resending it. Apologies if folks get two copies of it.] Jed Rothwell wrote: > > [...] Biology has had billions of years to develop > materials, and evolution ensures than anything that can be made will be > made. Biology has developed many highly unlikely devices including > electric storage batteries (electric eels), lenses, microscopic wheels > (rotating flagella), but almost nothing made of metal, and I doubt > biology could ever develop a radio. Well, no radio, it's true. But IIRC some birds have quite functional builtin magnetic compasses. A pigeons loses its homing ability if an electrified coil of wire is placed around its head, to prevent it from sensing the earth's magnetic field. I think I recall reading they use little bits of ferrite to sense the magnetic field. And of course sharks have an electrical sense which allows them to detect the nervous system activity of their prey, even when the prey is buried in sand or otherwise concealed. No metal wires, no obvious antenna, but it's still an effective low-frequency EM radiation receiver. That sort of sense occurs in a number of fish; I don't know if anyone's ever really investigated the possibility that some creatures might emit signals specifically to be received by such a sense. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 4 07:53:23 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA28114; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 07:50:47 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 07:50:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20031204104846.01dae0a8@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 10:50:40 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Miles letter in C&EN Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"1lNDS.0.Dt6.GVrp_"@mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52603 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Melvin Miles gave me permission to reprint this letter. this is the final version he sent the magazine. The published version maybe a little different. (I have not seen it.) - Jed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Melvin H. Miles Department of Chemistry University of La Verne 1950 3rd Street La Verne, California 91750 September 29, 2003 C&EN, Editor-in-Chief 1155 10th St., N.W. Washington, DC 20036 Dear Editor: I recently attended ICCF-10 in Cambridge, MA (C&EN, August 23, page 33) where new experiments from Japan, China, Israel, Italy and other countries further confirmed the cold fusion effect reported by Martin Fleischmann and B. Stanley Pons in 1989 (see http://www.lenr-canr.org). In l989, the critics of cold fusion rightfully insisted on the identification of the nuclear ash. Should this nuclear ash now be ignored simply because it was found in 1990 and later rather than in 1989? It is possible that the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, California Institute of Technology, Harwell and other groups reported their findings of no excess heat in 1989 before they investigated the key variables and without learning how to correctly perform the calorimetric measurements. The scientific community needs to guard against any future rush to judgment of unusual new results as well as the replacement of the scientific method by uncalled for ridicule. Sincerely, Dr. Melvin H. Miles Visiting Professor Department of Chemistry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 4 08:09:16 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA21747; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:05:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:05:36 -0800 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20031204110429.01db7fe0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 11:05:39 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Li's Journal of Physics D paper uploaded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"4qxdD.0.fJ5.Gjrp_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52604 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Journal of Physics D paper gave me permission to upload the Li paper. It is here: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LiXZcorrelatio.pdf - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 4 20:31:40 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id UAA02132; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:29:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:29:35 -0800 From: Yakov Reply-To: rockcast@earthlink.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Towards a prototype Case/ Li effect heater Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 23:29:46 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.1 References: <005501c3b8fc$a13ceda0$8837fea9@cpq> In-Reply-To: <005501c3b8fc$a13ceda0$8837fea9@cpq> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Message-Id: <200312042329.46417.rockcast@earthlink.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA02105 Resent-Message-ID: <"4HzpW.0.GX.lc0q_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52605 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tuesday 02 December 2003 12:49, Jones Beene wrote: > One further train of thought on the Li et al paper in J. Phys. D: Appl. > Phys. 36 (2003) 3095-3097.:http://stacks.iop.org/0022-3727/36/3095 > > According to Li, and possibly the earlier work of Les Case, there appears > to be a "magic" temperature for certain D/Pd systems where a substantial > exothermic heat anomaly is seen, even in the absence of applied power. Li > sees some likelihood that it could be self-sustaining. This kind of fits in > with the "heat-after-death" phenomenon. > > "When the temperature approached 150°C the pressure in the reaction vessel > started increasing quickly although the pump was still working > continuously... the heat flow was confirmed 16 times with the same > palladium tube under various D2 pressure differences." > > The power density in terms of BTU/gram of active material here is not > stated but is obviously extremely high, given the paucity of reactants, > nearly comparable - one suspects, to what is found in a uranium fission > reactor, though probably self-quenching at a certain level - therefore, the > same two big "ifs" which are found in advancing any form of CF present > themselves with this simpler reactor: IF the exothermic reaction can be > maintained over considerable time spans with only modest energy input (some > kind of pressure differential) and IF substitute active materials can be > found for Pd, then it should be possible to economically extract "process > heat" up to a temperature of several hindered degrees F (somewhat less than > 150°C or 300 F), enough for home-heating and perhaps even for modest > conversion into electricity if advanced thermoelectric converters become a > reality. > > If true, of course, this is basically "like" electrolytic CF but without > the electrolysis! Could it really be that the only purpose of the electric > current in normal CF is to load the electrodes and maintain a pressure > differential? If so, it is clear that there are easier and more efficient > ways to accomplish both tasks. > > The near future will tell us if this Case/Li effect is a robust effect - > But we can ask if it is presently too early to take Johnny Moondog's advice > and "imagine" how this technique could be applied in practical terms ? I > think not - it is never too early if one trusts the underlying experiment, > and the Li work appears more than adequate, but of course, it needs (begs) > to be reproduced by others. > > Even so, jumping-the-gun by a few years, here is one "imagined" > manifestation of a Case/Li prototype heat engine (I am reluctant yet to > call it LENR, despite R. George's finding of He because it could be based > (in part) on another modality such as the Casimir effect, a QM effect or a > hydrino effect). > > The main problem in going from an experiment to a prototype unit, say of > 5-10 kW capacity seems to be in avoiding too much parasitic energy loss due > to pumping (but there is an elegant solution to that) and in finding > alternative active materials to Pd. > > Ti is a candidate active material, as is Cd. Many perovskite materials have > been found to be active for some amount of excess heat. Mizuno has had > success using a mixture of strontium, cerium, yttrium and niobium oxides. > LaO3 is reportedly active. Boron containing materials made at NR are > active. In practice this would be a laborious trial and error process, but > one would start with the assumption that any number of proton conductors > would be candidate materials with or with out some additional Pd. If Pd > could be limited to less than a gram per 10 kW of output then even it could > be a used despite the high expected price. Due to the large amount of > research currently going on for fuel-cell applications, which should be > directly transferable, it is even possible that in the near future we will > be overwhelmed with any number of excellent moderately-expensive active > proton conductors. Not all proton concoctors will be active for excess heat > but many will, esp. with small addition! s. Ed Storms talks about this in > an older paper: > http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/papers/storms/review8.html but since > then a number of exciting candidate materials have come into focus. > > Now to the "grits" of the imagined reactor. Two factors may be important in > this design : 1) a high pressure differential > 2) small scale geometry > If a small geometry is important than we will be talking about many small > cells in one heating unit, maybe as many as several hundred to several > thousand. > > Also the implication of the small geometry is to maximize the surface area > of the active material. This implies using it as a finely divided > particulate, a.k.a. a "black" or a "dust" > > > ULTRASONIC PLASMA DUST MULTIPLE-CELL HEATING UNIT > > The reactor consists of a rigid multi-cell structure driven by a high > output piezo-transducer on one or more axis. In a 10 kW (thermal) unit, 1-2 > kW could be parasitic electrical power from ConEd or any of the other Cons, > which is used to drive the transducers and the fans needed to remove heat > from the reactor. The reactor could be made of die-cast aluminum with a > grid of say, 20x20 of spherical cavities cast into the form, each giving 25 > watts of heat (a resonant and spherical structure is critical for a focused > pressure differential in a central active zone (ala sonofusion). Each of > the 400 cells would contain less than a gram an active perovskite > metalloid, already loaded with deuterium gas with some excess gas present > at less than 1 atm of pressure. The active material would be in the form of > a "dust" and probably a particle size of very near 10 microns should be > maintained. > > The transducer would provide the internal pressure differential by means of > kinetic pressure waves; and the transducer also gives some amount of > heating, less than 10% of the total heat output. Each heating unit would > have a fan to remove excess heat and complicated electronics to precisely > maintain all the variables. > > The energy savings of such a unit over natural gas are several thousand $ > per year per household, so a big problem that soon crops up is political. > The market reaction of a supply and demand situation would be for natural > gas prices to crash, with the side-effect that the technology would die an > early death... afterwards Why? If something saved ME money like that, WHY in the whole WORLD would I EVER abandon it? I know some Oklahomans back in the seventies that drilled for water and got gasoline instead. Yeah! You read right.... gasoline! You know! 100 octane right out of the ground. Do not ask me why such a thing can be simply be pumped out of the ground fifty miles from any pipeline and miles from any gas station, etc. It was just there, and these farmers found it right on their own land. It was not in great deliverable quantity, just a barrel or two a day; but the folks that were blessed with this bounty appreciated their gift from God....greatly. To my knowledge they did not cap their new well and abandon it either. Yakov , then the price of NG would soar again. Here is > where taxation can have a positive benefit. We would have to tax natural > gas to maintain a high competitive advantage for the alternative heat > source, and funnel some of that tax revenue back to the producers of these > heaters. > > All said, this will never happen with the present administration. > > But that is the plaintive beauty of the imagination, set starkly against an > imperfect world. It may not really solve any problems today but it may > provide some tentative wisp of hopefulness... well, at least it works for > me... > > Jones > > Imagine no possessions, > I wonder if you can, > No need for greed or hunger, > A brotherhood of man, > Imagine all the people > Sharing all the world... > > You may say I'm a dreamer, > but I'm not the only one, > I hope some day you'll join us, > And the world will live as one. > > - John "moondog" Lennon, > > ... brutally murdered in 1981 by Mark David Chapman, who has been eligible > for parole for 2 years now - his next hearing is scheduled for October > 2004. C'mon, I wanna see the hydrino rocket take off.....single stage to orbit.... hell, single stage to the moon....and back...and no friggin heat tiles or hellish deceleration. Just smooth, man...re-enter at less than 2 g's on powered re-entry. Let that ultraviolet and soft X-ray exhaust plume deliver 7,000,000 Kgf of thrust at 200,000 km/hr V with a specific impulse of 500,000....well we CAN dream, and maybe Mills will make it so. Yakov From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 4 21:59:13 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id VAA23999; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 21:57:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 21:57:29 -0800 From: Yakov Reply-To: rockcast@earthlink.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Towards a prototype Case/ Li effect heater Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 23:27:54 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.1 References: <005501c3b8fc$a13ceda0$8837fea9@cpq> In-Reply-To: <005501c3b8fc$a13ceda0$8837fea9@cpq> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312042327.55463.rockcast@earthlink.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA23971 Resent-Message-ID: <"e2tI32.0.ws5.8v1q_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52606 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tuesday 02 December 2003 12:49, Jones Beene wrote: > One further train of thought on the Li et al paper in J. Phys. D: Appl. > Phys. 36 (2003) 3095-3097.:http://stacks.iop.org/0022-3727/36/3095 > > According to Li, and possibly the earlier work of Les Case, there appears > to be a "magic" temperature for certain D/Pd systems where a substantial > exothermic heat anomaly is seen, even in the absence of applied power. Li > sees some likelihood that it could be self-sustaining. This kind of fits in > with the "heat-after-death" phenomenon. > > "When the temperature approached 150°C the pressure in the reaction vessel > started increasing quickly although the pump was still working > continuously... the heat flow was confirmed 16 times with the same > palladium tube under various D2 pressure differences." > > The power density in terms of BTU/gram of active material here is not > stated but is obviously extremely high, given the paucity of reactants, > nearly comparable - one suspects, to what is found in a uranium fission > reactor, though probably self-quenching at a certain level - therefore, the > same two big "ifs" which are found in advancing any form of CF present > themselves with this simpler reactor: IF the exothermic reaction can be > maintained over considerable time spans with only modest energy input (some > kind of pressure differential) and IF substitute active materials can be > found for Pd, then it should be possible to economically extract "process > heat" up to a temperature of several hindered degrees F (somewhat less than > 150°C or 300 F), enough for home-heating and perhaps even for modest > conversion into electricity if advanced thermoelectric converters become a > reality. > > If true, of course, this is basically "like" electrolytic CF but without > the electrolysis! Could it really be that the only purpose of the electric > current in normal CF is to load the electrodes and maintain a pressure > differential? If so, it is clear that there are easier and more efficient > ways to accomplish both tasks. > > The near future will tell us if this Case/Li effect is a robust effect - > But we can ask if it is presently too early to take Johnny Moondog's advice > and "imagine" how this technique could be applied in practical terms ? I > think not - it is never too early if one trusts the underlying experiment, > and the Li work appears more than adequate, but of course, it needs (begs) > to be reproduced by others. > > Even so, jumping-the-gun by a few years, here is one "imagined" > manifestation of a Case/Li prototype heat engine (I am reluctant yet to > call it LENR, despite R. George's finding of He because it could be based > (in part) on another modality such as the Casimir effect, a QM effect or a > hydrino effect). > > The main problem in going from an experiment to a prototype unit, say of > 5-10 kW capacity seems to be in avoiding too much parasitic energy loss due > to pumping (but there is an elegant solution to that) and in finding > alternative active materials to Pd. > > Ti is a candidate active material, as is Cd. Many perovskite materials have > been found to be active for some amount of excess heat. Mizuno has had > success using a mixture of strontium, cerium, yttrium and niobium oxides. > LaO3 is reportedly active. Boron containing materials made at NR are > active. In practice this would be a laborious trial and error process, but > one would start with the assumption that any number of proton conductors > would be candidate materials with or with out some additional Pd. If Pd > could be limited to less than a gram per 10 kW of output then even it could > be a used despite the high expected price. Due to the large amount of > research currently going on for fuel-cell applications, which should be > directly transferable, it is even possible that in the near future we will > be overwhelmed with any number of excellent moderately-expensive active > proton conductors. Not all proton concoctors will be active for excess heat > but many will, esp. with small addition! s. Ed Storms talks about this in > an older paper: > http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/papers/storms/review8.html but since > then a number of exciting candidate materials have come into focus. > > Now to the "grits" of the imagined reactor. Two factors may be important in > this design : 1) a high pressure differential > 2) small scale geometry > If a small geometry is important than we will be talking about many small > cells in one heating unit, maybe as many as several hundred to several > thousand. > > Also the implication of the small geometry is to maximize the surface area > of the active material. This implies using it as a finely divided > particulate, a.k.a. a "black" or a "dust" > > > ULTRASONIC PLASMA DUST MULTIPLE-CELL HEATING UNIT > > The reactor consists of a rigid multi-cell structure driven by a high > output piezo-transducer on one or more axis. In a 10 kW (thermal) unit, 1-2 > kW could be parasitic electrical power from ConEd or any of the other Cons, > which is used to drive the transducers and the fans needed to remove heat > from the reactor. The reactor could be made of die-cast aluminum with a > grid of say, 20x20 of spherical cavities cast into the form, each giving 25 > watts of heat (a resonant and spherical structure is critical for a focused > pressure differential in a central active zone (ala sonofusion). Each of > the 400 cells would contain less than a gram an active perovskite > metalloid, already loaded with deuterium gas with some excess gas present > at less than 1 atm of pressure. The active material would be in the form of > a "dust" and probably a particle size of very near 10 microns should be > maintained. > > The transducer would provide the internal pressure differential by means of > kinetic pressure waves; and the transducer also gives some amount of > heating, less than 10% of the total heat output. Each heating unit would > have a fan to remove excess heat and complicated electronics to precisely > maintain all the variables. > > The energy savings of such a unit over natural gas are several thousand $ > per year per household, so a big problem that soon crops up is political. > The market reaction of a supply and demand situation would be for natural > gas prices to crash, with the side-effect that the technology would die an > early death... afterwards Why? If something saved ME money like that, WHY in the whole WORLD would I EVER abandon it? I know some Oklahomans back in the seventies that drilled for water and got gasoline instead. Yeah! You read right.... gasoline! You know! 100 octane right out of the ground. Do not ask me why such a thing can be simply be pumped out of the ground fifty miles from any pipeline and miles from any gas station, etc. It was just there, and these farmers found it right on their own land. It was not in great deliverable quantity, just a barrel or two a day; but the folks that were blessed with this bounty appreciated their gift from God....greatly. To my knowledge they did not cap their new well and abandon it either. Yakov , then the price of NG would soar again. Here is > where taxation can have a positive benefit. We would have to tax natural > gas to maintain a high competitive advantage for the alternative heat > source, and funnel some of that tax revenue back to the producers of these > heaters. > > All said, this will never happen with the present administration. > > But that is the plaintive beauty of the imagination, set starkly against an > imperfect world. It may not really solve any problems today but it may > provide some tentative wisp of hopefulness... well, at least it works for > me... > > Jones > > Imagine no possessions, > I wonder if you can, > No need for greed or hunger, > A brotherhood of man, > Imagine all the people > Sharing all the world... > > You may say I'm a dreamer, > but I'm not the only one, > I hope some day you'll join us, > And the world will live as one. > > - John "moondog" Lennon, > > ... brutally murdered in 1981 by Mark David Chapman, who has been eligible > for parole for 2 years now - his next hearing is scheduled for October > 2004. C'mon, I wanna see the hydrino rocket take off.....single stage to orbit.... hell, single stage to the moon....and back...and no friggin heat tiles or hellish deceleration. Just smooth, man...re-enter at less than 2 g's on powered re-entry. Let that ultraviolet and soft X-ray exhaust plume deliver 7,000,000 Kgf of thrust at 200,000 km/hr V with a specific impulse of 500,000....well we CAN dream, and maybe Mills will make it so. Yakov From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 07:39:43 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id HAA23609; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:36:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:36:40 -0800 Message-ID: <002101c3bb44$4b8b5aa0$8837fea9@cpq> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" References: <005501c3b8fc$a13ceda0$8837fea9@cpq> <200312042329.46417.rockcast@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Towards a prototype Case/ Li effect heater Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:27:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA23545 Resent-Message-ID: <"VN8pK2.0.nm5.7OAq_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52607 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yakov, I think you missed the essential point about supply and demand economics WRT petroleum products. With a natural resource like methane that is essentially free after the well is in place, the price can vary substantially lower with little downside risk to the well owner. He saves costs by not drilling any more wells but he still makes money on the well in place, even at the lower price. > > The energy savings of such a unit over natural gas are several thousand $ > > per year per household, so a big problem that soon crops up is political. > > The market reaction of a supply and demand situation would be for natural > > gas prices to crash, with the side-effect that the technology would die an > > early death... afterwards > Why? If something saved ME money like that, WHY in the whole WORLD > would I EVER abandon it? The person who already owned the alternative energy device would not ditch it, of course, but the person contemplating buying one could not justify it economically, once the gas price dropped substantially, and the plant making the alternative energy product operates with a huge 'overhead' that must be sustained, so it needs the volume of production - unlike the gas well owner, the net result being the failure of the factory... this all falls into the category of one of the main evils of capitalism, often expressed something like "bad money pushing out good"... Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 08:02:13 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id HAA05171; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:57:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:57:40 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031205105700.01ca8c08@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 10:57:35 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: JCF5 conference abstracts available Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"Hs7xg1.0.hG1.phAq_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52608 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See: http://www.eng.osaka-u.ac.jp/nuc/03/nuc03web/JCF/file/jcf5abstract.pdf Alas, I cannot attend this meeting. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 11:49:12 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id LAA18479; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:44:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:44:14 -0800 Message-ID: <3FD0E005.2060609@rtpatlanta.com> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 14:44:05 -0500 From: "Terry Blanton" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: On the Need for New Energy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QNHQq1.0.hW4.E0Eq_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52609 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: An interesting article full of facts on fossil fuels and food: http://www.oilcrash.com/eating.htm e.g. did you know that 400 gallons of oil equivalents are used annually to feed each American? * 31% for the manufacture of inorganic fertilizer * 19% for the operation of field machinery * 16% for transportation * 13% for irrigation * 08% for raising livestock (not including livestock feed) * 05% for crop drying * 05% for pesticide production * 08% miscellaneous[8 ] From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 12:13:48 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id MAA05687; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 12:10:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 12:10:12 -0800 Message-ID: <3FD0E61F.7030307@rtpatlanta.com> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 15:10:07 -0500 From: "Terry Blanton" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: On the Need for New Energy References: <3FD0E005.2060609@rtpatlanta.com> In-Reply-To: <3FD0E005.2060609@rtpatlanta.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Pt90p.0.lO1.ZOEq_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52610 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: An this one from the Guardian with good news: http://www.guardian.co.uk/oil/story/0,11319,1097672,00.html you can run all the cars in England on rapeseed oil but: "My rough calculations suggest that running the United Kingdom's cars on rapeseed oil would require an area of arable fields the size of England." From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 5 14:23:32 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id OAA14008; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:20:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:20:30 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 22:19:18 +0000 (UTC) From: John Schnurer To: Vortex , Schnurer , William Beaty Subject: Printed Circuit Board Milling Machines Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"SFNod1.0.qQ3.jIGq_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52611 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vo., I am trying to find out about the pro-con and tradeoffs with Printed Circuit Board Milling Machines One URL is: www.pcbmilling.com Does Anyone know about these Printed Circuit Board Milling Machines? And-or... does anyone know someone who knows about these machines. A company I may be working with may purchase one such machine and I will probably be the person operating the machine, so I very much would like to know about these. A more complete URL: http://www.pcbmilling.com/machines.htm Thanks, JH From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 6 12:50:39 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id MAA27140; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 12:47:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 12:47:11 -0800 From: Michael Huffman To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Printed Circuit Board Milling Machines Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 21:55:39 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312062155.40234.knuke@sumosound.de> X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:b76291440de0a671bf17bfec730be47d Resent-Message-ID: <"rwtaE1.0.-d6.F1aq_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52612 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John, I bought a similar type of milling table, and it turned out to be a bit pricey by the time I got it to be completely functional. This was some years ago, so the prices may be less now, and the "out of the box" functionality might be better with the units you are looking at, I don't know. However, if I were going to be doing circuit board prototyping again, I would look into getting a decent CAD program, and doing some price comparisons with acid etching gear. No, I am not going to shop around for you, I am just making the suggestion. I can also tell you that you can get a fairly decent CAD program for free by installing Mandrake Linux on your computer. You get that, and about 3,000 other programs as well, with the standard download distribution - all for free. Good Luck, Knuke From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 6 13:04:31 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id NAA04474; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 13:02:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 13:02:23 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20031206155949.015a85e8@pop.theworld.com> X-Sender: mica@pop.theworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 16:01:43 -0500 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: "Dr. Mitchell Swartz" Subject: Cold Fusion Times v.11, n1 is out In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20031205105700.01ca8c08@pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"HhfJe2.0.s51.VFaq_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52613 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Cold Fusion Returns to MIT ICCF-10 + http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 6 13:47:26 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id NAA30770; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 13:44:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 13:44:26 -0800 Message-ID: <3FD24DEF.7020502@rtpatlanta.com> Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 16:45:19 -0500 From: Terry Blanton User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Printed Circuit Board Milling Machines References: <200312062155.40234.knuke@sumosound.de> In-Reply-To: <200312062155.40234.knuke@sumosound.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mss5H2.0.dW7.wsaq_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52614 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Huffman wrote: >John, > > I bought a similar type of milling table, and it turned out to be a >bit pricey by the time I got it to be completely functional. This >was some years ago, so the prices may be less now, and the "out of >the box" functionality might be better with the units you are looking >at, I don't know. > > However, if I were going to be doing circuit board prototyping >again, I would look into getting a decent CAD program, and doing some >price comparisons with acid etching gear. No, I am not going to shop >around for you, I am just making the suggestion. > > I can also tell you that you can get a fairly decent CAD program for >free by installing Mandrake Linux on your computer. You get that, >and about 3,000 other programs as well, with the standard download >distribution - all for free. > Good advice, Knuke. Not many circuits nowadays can be accomplished on only two layers (top and bottom). Our mother board on a digital access crossconnect system (DACS) took 15 layers. Buy the CAD system and farm out the boards. Terry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 6 19:27:42 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id TAA12150; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 19:25:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 19:25:48 -0800 From: FZNIDARSIC@aol.com Message-ID: <1df.14fc320a.2d03f796@aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 22:25:10 EST Subject: 500,000 meters To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1df.14fc320a.2d03f796_boundary" X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10709 Resent-Message-ID: <"BVner2.0.nz2.xsfq_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52615 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --part1_1df.14fc320a.2d03f796_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When doing some calculations with gravity the number 500,000 meters pops up. Does this mean anything to anybody? I remember reading about some thing number like this a few years ago. I believe it had something to do with a proximity way. Any clues? Frank Znidarsic --part1_1df.14fc320a.2d03f796_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When doing some calculations with gravity the number 5= 00,000 meters pops up.
Does this mean anything to anybody?
I remember reading about some thing number like this a few years ago. =20= I believe it had something to do with a proximity way.

Any clues?

Frank Znidarsic --part1_1df.14fc320a.2d03f796_boundary-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 7 23:12:12 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id XAA12627; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 23:07:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 23:07:46 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002101c3bb44$4b8b5aa0$8837fea9@cpq> References: <005501c3b8fc$a13ceda0$8837fea9@cpq> <200312042329.46417.rockcast@earthlink.net> <002101c3bb44$4b8b5aa0$8837fea9@cpq> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 01:08:46 -0600 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: thomas malloy Subject: Re: Towards a prototype Case/ Li effect heater Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-DCC-CPI-Metrics: Clear 1161; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Resent-Message-ID: <"gHvGU1.0.D53.2D2r_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52616 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene replied >Yakov, > >I think you missed the essential point about supply and demand economics WRT > The person who already owned the alternative energy device would not ditch it, of > the factory... this all falls into the category of one of the main >evils of capitalism, often expressed something like "bad money >pushing out good"... You must also remember that there are some people who are willing to pay a premium price for energy which is produced by a Green source. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 8 12:50:29 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id MAA01505; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 12:45:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 12:45:12 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031208150935.01ca7648@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 15:45:01 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Famous Wright photograph available Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"1YLYw3.0.TN.OBEr_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52617 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The Smithsonian has posted an unretouched, high resolution copy of the famous Wright photograph here: http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/arch/collections/wright_first.cfm The size is 3000 x 2175 pixels. This photo was taken in the first seconds of the first fully successful powered flight in history, on December 17, 1903. (The first mostly successful flight was on December 15, two days earlier.) The 100th anniversary is going to be big deal on television and at Kitty Hawk. This is one of the most famous and remarkable photographs ever taken, of any subject. As one historian pointed out it shows Wilbur Wright on the right, and all you can see of Orville Wright, the pilot, is his shoes. The photo was taken by John Daniels, a member of Coast Guard crew. Later that day, a gust of wind picked up the airplane. Daniels grabbed hold of it, hoping to prevent damage. The machine flipped over and was smashed with Daniels tangled inside the steel cables holding the wings together. He was not seriously hurt. He said it was, "my first -- and God help me -- my last flight. I found myself caught in them wires in the machine blowing across the beach and heading for the ocean, landing first on one end and then on the other, rolling over and over, and me getting more tangled up in it all the time. I tell you, I was plum scared. When the thing did stop for half a second I nearly broke up every wire and upright getting out of it." (quoted by Combs, p. 244) In honor of the 100th anniversary, The Scientific American printed yet another inaccurate, outrageous attack on the Wrights, in a feeble attempt to justify their own role in history. It is similar to the comments on LENR-CANR.org by the Sci. Am. editor, John Rennie. I suppose in 2089 they will print an article trying to justify their role in the history of cold fusion. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 8 13:18:50 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id NAA20492; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 13:13:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 13:13:17 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Famous Wright photograph available Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 16:36:38 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20031208150935.01ca7648@pop.mindspring.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"pfcza.0.-_4.hbEr_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52618 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hey Jed. It would help if Orville wasn't trying to fly the plane backwards (wink). Thanks for the link, it's pretty sweet. K. http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/arch/images/SI-2002-16646l.jpg -----Original Message----- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 3:45 PM To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: Famous Wright photograph available The Smithsonian has posted an unretouched, high resolution copy of the famous Wright photograph here: http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/arch/collections/wright_first.cfm The size is 3000 x 2175 pixels. This photo was taken in the first seconds of the first fully successful powered flight in history, on December 17, 1903. (The first mostly successful flight was on December 15, two days earlier.) The 100th anniversary is going to be big deal on television and at Kitty Hawk. This is one of the most famous and remarkable photographs ever taken, of any subject. As one historian pointed out it shows Wilbur Wright on the right, and all you can see of Orville Wright, the pilot, is his shoes. The photo was taken by John Daniels, a member of Coast Guard crew. Later that day, a gust of wind picked up the airplane. Daniels grabbed hold of it, hoping to prevent damage. The machine flipped over and was smashed with Daniels tangled inside the steel cables holding the wings together. He was not seriously hurt. He said it was, "my first -- and God help me -- my last flight. I found myself caught in them wires in the machine blowing across the beach and heading for the ocean, landing first on one end and then on the other, rolling over and over, and me getting more tangled up in it all the time. I tell you, I was plum scared. When the thing did stop for half a second I nearly broke up every wire and upright getting out of it." (quoted by Combs, p. 244) In honor of the 100th anniversary, The Scientific American printed yet another inaccurate, outrageous attack on the Wrights, in a feeble attempt to justify their own role in history. It is similar to the comments on LENR-CANR.org by the Sci. Am. editor, John Rennie. I suppose in 2089 they will print an article trying to justify their role in the history of cold fusion. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 14:36:12 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id OAA18172; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:31:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:31:28 -0800 Message-ID: <20031209223027.12639.qmail@camelot.verisoft.com.tr> From: "hamdix" To: vortex Cc: hamdix@verisoft.com.tr Subject: best electron model so far Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:30:27 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"r22z-2.0.uR4.0rar_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52619 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: While Google'ing the web I encountered very compelling model of electron made by electromagnetic wave (photon) having a specific topology. http://members.chello.nl/~n.benschop/electron.pdf The charge of the electron arise purely from the topology. - to Frederick. Regards, hamdi ucar -- Published in: Annales de la Fondation Louis de Broglie, Volume 22, no.2, 133 (1997) Is the electron a photon with toroidal topology? J.G. Williamson(a) and M.B. van der Mark(b) (a)Glasgow University, Department of Electronics & Electrical Engineering, Glasgow G12 8QQ, Scotland (b)Philips Research Laboratories, Prof. Holstlaan 4, 5656 AA Eindhoven, The Netherlands Abstract We study the properties of a simple semi-classical model of a photon confined in periodic boundary conditions of one wavelength. The topology of this object, together with the photon electric field, give rise to a charge of the order of 10^-19 Coulomb and a half-integral spin, independent of its size. The ratio of the electromagnetic energy inside and outside the object leads to an nomalous spin g factor which is close to that of the electron. Although a finite size of order 10^-12 meter arises in a natural way, the apparent size of the object will be much smaller in energetic scattering events. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 15:40:22 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id PAA05387; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:04:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:04:05 -0800 Message-ID: <00f501c3bea6$7ff7ca20$8837fea9@cpq> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: the new beetle-car Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:47:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F2_01C3BE63.706C6EA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Resent-Message-ID: <"FF6Kf.0.4K1.bJbr_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52620 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00F2_01C3BE63.706C6EA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Since Vortex has sunk into the doldrums of late (is it ever too cold for = cold fusion?).... In the Sci-news this week is a story that researchers in England and the = US are looking at the *bombardier beetle* and particularly its infamous = defense-mechanism, as a possible way to improve jet propulsion.=20 >From twin 'exhaust tubes' at its tail, the amazing beetle in question = fires boiling-hot noxious gases into the face of his enemies... and more = than a few curious onlookers. Two of the investigators are now wearing = eye patches. How can this high efficiency energy mechanism have evolved, = and does the process hold the key to getting the world off its gasoline = addiction? President Bush, at the news conference for a rare fund = raiser, has promised that the "entire budget surplus" of his = administration will go exclusively towards this exciting research - = "Dick has given me the full go-ahead," the President beamed. German chemist Dr Schildknecht discovered that the beetle mixes two = easily produced chemicals: hydrogen peroxide and hydroquinone = (hydroquinone, as many kids near the 'ranch' know, is a most effective = chemical for its skin whitening ability - no doubt acquired by the = carload by a local benefactor. The well-designed beetle uses a special = 'inhibitor' chemical to keep the mixture from reacting ahead of time.=20 Dr Schildknecht discovered that in the beetle's specially designed = combustion tubes are two enzymes called catalase and peroxidase which = make chemical reactions go millions of times faster. These chemicals = catalyze the extremely rapid decomposition of hydrogen peroxide into = water and oxygen and the oxidation of hydroquinone into quinone, causing = them to violently react and explode -- but not so soon as to blow up the = beetle, of course! Now that is "passing some major gas" the President = quipped, flashing his famous wry grin. Perceptive individuals on the Vortex news forum, currently mesmerized by = the possible application of nanotech to meet the world's energy = problems, immediately jumped on the idea as well. All I need to do is, = muses a noted bio-mass aficionado, is fill the car's trunk up with = excreta from last night's droppings in my CF-powered insect "zapper," = turn on the valve that releases the cloned beetle cells, listen as those = nano-turbines start to whirl, and then "put the petal to the metal." A = member of the family Carabidae, more commonly known as the ground = beetles, the bombardier beetle quite naturally shares some of the habits = of its family, and likes to prey on other insects, making "insect = remnants" the perfect fuel for many parts of Texas. Dubya thinks he can = run most of the Air Force off the horse-flys zapped from around the = Crawford stables alone. The scientists are not sure if some form of LENR is at work in the = beetle as well, but their credentials are impeccable and they remain = optimistic about the possibility of cold fusion reactions in the beetle. = Previously, they had wanted to focus on the fire-breathing dragon = species that terrorized the countryside during the time of King Arthur, = but could not get enough good DNA... however, others have suspected that = their evidence for the theory that dragon-breath is a better free-energy = mechanism than beetle-juice is purely anecdotal. Nevertheless, this = switch to the beetle is consistent with "our national expectations," one = the English chaps remarked, after all, the beetles have provide most of = our GNP since the late '60s... Signed, Professor Branestawm, aka Cecil B. Demented=20 Two atoms bump into each other: "I think I've lost an electron!" says = one.=20 "Are you sure?" replies the other.=20 "I'm positive!"=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00F2_01C3BE63.706C6EA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Since Vortex has sunk into the doldrums of late (is it = ever too=20 cold for cold fusion?)....
 
In the Sci-news this week is a story that researchers in = England and=20 the US are looking at the *bombardier beetle* and = particularly its=20 infamous defense-mechanism, as a possible way to improve jet=20 propulsion. 
 
From twin 'exhaust tubes' at its tail, the amazing beetle in = question fires=20 boiling-hot noxious gases into the face of his enemies... and more than = a few=20 curious onlookers. Two of the investigators are now wearing eye patches. = How can=20 this high efficiency energy mechanism have evolved, and does the process = hold=20 the key to getting the world off its gasoline addiction? President = Bush, at=20 the news conference for a rare fund raiser, has promised that the = "entire=20 budget surplus" of his administration will go exclusively towards = this=20 exciting research - "Dick has given me the full go-ahead," the President = beamed.
 
German chemist Dr Schildknecht discovered that the beetle mixes two = easily=20 produced chemicals: hydrogen peroxide and hydroquinone (hydroquinone, as = many=20 kids near the 'ranch' know, is a most effective = chemical for=20 its skin whitening ability - no doubt acquired by the carload by a = local=20 benefactor. The well-designed beetle uses a special 'inhibitor' chemical = to keep=20 the mixture from reacting ahead of time.
 
Dr Schildknecht discovered that in the beetle's specially designed=20 combustion tubes are two enzymes called catalase and peroxidase which = make=20 chemical reactions go millions of times faster. These chemicals catalyze = the=20 extremely rapid decomposition of hydrogen peroxide into water and oxygen = and the=20 oxidation of hydroquinone into quinone, causing them to violently react = and=20 explode -- but not so soon as to blow up the beetle, of course! Now that = is=20 "passing some major gas" the President quipped, flashing his famous = wry=20 grin.
 
Perceptive individuals on the Vortex news forum, currently = mesmerized by=20 the possible application of nanotech to meet the world's energy=20 problems, immediately jumped on the idea as well. All I need to do = is,=20 muses a noted bio-mass aficionado, is fill the car's trunk up with = excreta from=20 last night's droppings in my CF-powered insect "zapper," turn on the = valve that=20 releases the cloned beetle cells, listen as those nano-turbines start to = whirl, and then "put the petal to the metal." A member of the = family=20 Carabidae, more commonly known as the ground beetles, the bombardier = beetle=20 quite naturally shares some of the habits of its family, and likes to = prey on=20 other insects, making "insect remnants" the perfect fuel for many parts = of=20 Texas. Dubya thinks he can run most of the Air Force off the horse-flys = zapped=20 from around the Crawford stables alone.
 
The scientists are not sure if some form of LENR is at work in the = beetle=20 as well, but their credentials are impeccable and they remain optimistic = about=20 the possibility of cold fusion reactions in the beetle. Previously, they = had wanted to focus on the fire-breathing dragon species that=20 terrorized the countryside during the time of King Arthur, but could not = get=20 enough good DNA... however, others have suspected that their = evidence for=20 the theory that dragon-breath is a better free-energy mechanism = than=20 beetle-juice is purely anecdotal. Nevertheless, this switch to the = beetle is=20 consistent with "our national expectations," one the English chaps = remarked,=20 after all, the beetles have provide most of our GNP since the late = '60s...
 
Signed,
Professor  Branestawm, aka Cecil B. Demented
 
 
Two atoms bump into each other: "I think I've lost an electron!" = says one.=20
"Are you sure?" replies the other.
"I'm positive!"
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_00F2_01C3BE63.706C6EA0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 9 18:01:45 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id RAA02527; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 17:57:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 17:57:13 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: the new beetle-car Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 21:20:44 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <00f501c3bea6$7ff7ca20$8837fea9@cpq> X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"Y44A5.0.Qd.urdr_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52621 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: (sing it bro) De-men-ted For-EVAHHHH!!!!! Hey, These guys are doing something like this to make the worlds first "space beetle". http://www.armadilloaerospace.com Speaking of Shrub, it'd be nice if he took the money he's going to squander on the moon trip and loan it to small rocket startups like this. Nah, that might produce massive job growth and successful migration into space. We can't afford to have another Internet happen... oh yeah, step on biotech too cause God sez it's evil. K. -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jonesb9@pacbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 5:48 PM To: vortex Subject: the new beetle-car Since Vortex has sunk into the doldrums of late (is it ever too cold for cold fusion?).... In the Sci-news this week is a story that researchers in England and the US are looking at the *bombardier beetle* and particularly its infamous defense-mechanism, as a possible way to improve jet propulsion. >From twin 'exhaust tubes' at its tail, the amazing beetle in question fires boiling-hot noxious gases into the face of his enemies... and more than a few curious onlookers. Two of the investigators are now wearing eye patches. How can this high efficiency energy mechanism have evolved, and does the process hold the key to getting the world off its gasoline addiction? President Bush, at the news conference for a rare fund raiser, has promised that the "entire budget surplus" of his administration will go exclusively towards this exciting research - "Dick has given me the full go-ahead," the President beamed. German chemist Dr Schildknecht discovered that the beetle mixes two easily produced chemicals: hydrogen peroxide and hydroquinone (hydroquinone, as many kids near the 'ranch' know, is a most effective chemical for its skin whitening ability - no doubt acquired by the carload by a local benefactor. The well-designed beetle uses a special 'inhibitor' chemical to keep the mixture from reacting ahead of time. Dr Schildknecht discovered that in the beetle's specially designed combustion tubes are two enzymes called catalase and peroxidase which make chemical reactions go millions of times faster. These chemicals catalyze the extremely rapid decomposition of hydrogen peroxide into water and oxygen and the oxidation of hydroquinone into quinone, causing them to violently react and explode -- but not so soon as to blow up the beetle, of course! Now that is "passing some major gas" the President quipped, flashing his famous wry grin. Perceptive individuals on the Vortex news forum, currently mesmerized by the possible application of nanotech to meet the world's energy problems, immediately jumped on the idea as well. All I need to do is, muses a noted bio-mass aficionado, is fill the car's trunk up with excreta from last night's droppings in my CF-powered insect "zapper," turn on the valve that releases the cloned beetle cells, listen as those nano-turbines start to whirl, and then "put the petal to the metal." A member of the family Carabidae, more commonly known as the ground beetles, the bombardier beetle quite naturally shares some of the habits of its family, and likes to prey on other insects, making "insect remnants" the perfect fuel for many parts of Texas. Dubya thinks he can run most of the Air Force off the horse-flys zapped from around the Crawford stables alone. The scientists are not sure if some form of LENR is at work in the beetle as well, but their credentials are impeccable and they remain optimistic about the possibility of cold fusion reactions in the beetle. Previously, they had wanted to focus on the fire-breathing dragon species that terrorized the countryside during the time of King Arthur, but could not get enough good DNA... however, others have suspected that their evidence for the theory that dragon-breath is a better free-energy mechanism than beetle-juice is purely anecdotal. Nevertheless, this switch to the beetle is consistent with "our national expectations," one the English chaps remarked, after all, the beetles have provide most of our GNP since the late '60s... Signed, Professor Branestawm, aka Cecil B. Demented Two atoms bump into each other: "I think I've lost an electron!" says one. "Are you sure?" replies the other. "I'm positive!" From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 11 07:33:25 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id HAA04038; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:31:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:31:30 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031211101012.01cabc08@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:12:14 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: WAY OFF TOPIC Programmer or serial killer? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"JgXuu2.0.x-.It8s_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52622 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Can you tell the difference between a programmer and a serial killer? Take the quiz: http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/killerquiz/ - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 11 08:57:42 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA27775; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:55:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:55:37 -0800 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:55:24 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: WAY OFF TOPIC Programmer or serial killer? Message-ID: <20031211165524.GD5144@genius.tao.org.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Josef Karthauser , vortex-l@eskimo.com References: <6.0.1.1.2.20031211101012.01cabc08@pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="a2FkP9tdjPU2nyhF" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20031211101012.01cabc08@pop.mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Resent-Message-ID: <"u5rsb3.0.pn6.96As_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52623 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --a2FkP9tdjPU2nyhF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 10:12:14AM -0500, Jed Rothwell wrote: > Can you tell the difference between a programmer and a serial killer? Tak= e=20 > the quiz: >=20 > http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/killerquiz/ >=20 I got 7/10; I guess being a programmer (and not a serial killer) myself might help. (I'm also now a physicist since I last emailed this list :) :) Joe --=20 Josef Karthauser (joe@tao.org.uk) http://www.josef-k.net/ FreeBSD (cvs meister, admin and hacker) http://www.uk.FreeBSD.org/ Physics Particle Theory (student) http://www.pact.cpes.sussex.ac.uk/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D An eclectic mix of fact an= d theory. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --a2FkP9tdjPU2nyhF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAj/YoXsACgkQXVIcjOaxUBZL8wCfbSQWfbnikRafnPLP8F/y2g8k nM8AoJhpmt2AwEpYJmnI3wSSynf3WQdh =p8Ku -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --a2FkP9tdjPU2nyhF-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 12 08:53:06 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA13710; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:51:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:51:28 -0800 Message-ID: <3FD9F214.5050602@rtpatlanta.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:51:32 -0500 From: "Terry Blanton" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Baby Seggie Available Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FVqhc1.0.5M3.F8Vs_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52624 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: http://www.segway.com/segway/pseries.html From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 12 09:36:06 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id JAA13164; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:33:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:33:18 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Baby Seggie Available Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:56:56 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <3FD9F214.5050602@rtpatlanta.com> Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"CqiZU.0.dD3.TlVs_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52625 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Terry. The model shown in this photo sort of illustrates the whole marketing problem with Segway. In short, this man will never get laid. Ever. Oddly enough, I've been seeing a lot of scooters sold in the cheap electronics stores here, there IS a market for these things. What needs to change? First the price, which is too steep for the early adopters, i.e. kids. Second, the "getting booty" factor. That's a whole lot more important than the first, kids will spend huge sums of cash on this stuff but it must appeal to their base instincts. Hey Dean Kamen, if your reading this, email me and we'll talk about what will make this work (grin). But here's the first bit of advice, "first hits free" you know... The Segway is too quiet. It needs to be LOUD! Or more to the point, it needs a distinctive sound. The best sound for this purpose is something sub-sonic, windows should shake as you pass. But given the peculiar nature of the device, I'm thinking something ear-piercingly high pitched would be more suitable. Think "ninja-bike" sound and you're getting warm. Maybe something similar to the sound your brake shoes make when the rubber wears out and needs replacing. You know, years back on the Simpsons there was a great episode where Homer is hired by one of the big auto manufacturers to design a car. The resulting monstrosity, hilarious to you the TV viewer, is wildly successful. If you watch the episode now what you will immediately recognize is the modern SUV, predicted years before it's success. Go Know. K. -----Original Message----- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:blantont@rtpatlanta.com] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:52 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Baby Seggie Available http://www.segway.com/segway/pseries.html From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 12 10:10:44 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA11158; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:08:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:08:37 -0800 From: rgajra@vsnl.com Message-ID: <006701c3c0da$acfbea20$e9e9a8c0@etcnetwork> To: References: Subject: Re: Baby Seggie Available Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 23:36:33 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Resent-Message-ID: <"GpvGQ.0.Ik2.bGWs_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52626 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If I were to be one of the potential customers of Segway (which I am not) and looked at the utility it provides then I would prefer to have it quiet. I like quiet machines. But thats me. Rajesh From: "Keith Nagel" To: Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:26 PM Subject: RE: Baby Seggie Available .................................... The Segway is too quiet. It needs to be LOUD! Or more to the point, it needs a distinctive sound. The best sound for this purpose is something sub-sonic, windows should shake as you pass. But given the peculiar nature of the device, I'm thinking something ear-piercingly high pitched would be more suitable. Think "ninja-bike" sound and you're getting warm................... From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 12 11:19:27 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id LAA31444; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:17:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:17:38 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Don Wiegel" To: Subject: RE: Baby Seggie Available Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:17:01 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c3c0e4$86258c30$0100a8c0@DonWLap> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <006701c3c0da$acfbea20$e9e9a8c0@etcnetwork> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Resent-Message-ID: <"lEdTy3.0.Fh7.IHXs_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52627 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is what the Segway people had in mind when designing this vehicle. Elevated Guideways .. If the "point load" is reduced to 300 pounds .. then they would be very inexpensive to build. Bicycles could also use them. ..DonW.. http://members.cox.net/prtdesign/guideway.html Summary of Guideway Cost It's no surprise that most of the cost of a fixed-guideway transit system is due to the guideway. Thus the details of the guideway design can have a tremendous effect on the total cost of a fixed-route transit system, since a complicated or labor-intensive guideway can cost several times as much as a simpler design. A second big factor in the cost of any elevated guideway is the load it must carry: the smaller the load, the lower the cost. Here our extremely small, light-weight vehicles give us a huge advantage, since our maximum "point load" is just over 800 pounds, compared to about 50,000 pounds for so-called "light" rail. Of course this is for the bare structural section only; the complete guideway includes supporting columns, bump strips, handrails, windbreaks, power conductors and guidance antenna--all of which obviously add substantially to the total cost. Still, it's useful to look at the cost of a mile of just the bare section, since this gives some idea of why our design is calculated to cost so much less than current systems. Again, this is just for the bare structural section. However, with such a low cost for the structural heart of the guideway, then even after adding all the other necessary components, the total cost of the guideway should still be far less than that of other elevated transit systems. | -----Original Message----- | From: rgajra@vsnl.com [mailto:rgajra@vsnl.com] | Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:07 AM | To: vortex-l@eskimo.com | Subject: Re: Baby Seggie Available | | | If I were to be one of the potential customers of Segway (which I am not) and | looked at the utility | it provides then I would prefer to have it quiet. I like quiet machines. But thats | me. | | Rajesh | | | | From: "Keith Nagel" | To: | Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:26 PM | Subject: RE: Baby Seggie Available | .................................... | The Segway is too quiet. It needs to be LOUD! | Or more to the point, it needs a distinctive | sound. The best sound for this purpose is something | sub-sonic, windows should shake as you pass. But given the | peculiar nature of the device, I'm thinking something | ear-piercingly high pitched would be more | suitable. Think "ninja-bike" sound and you're | getting warm................... From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 12 12:55:46 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA13768; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:52:08 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:52:08 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Baby Seggie Available Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:15:32 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <006701c3c0da$acfbea20$e9e9a8c0@etcnetwork> Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"6Ai8Z2.0.1N3.nfYs_"@mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52628 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Rajesh. I think you're missing the point. We can all agree about the great benefits of efficient, silent transport. The problem is, the people who buy this stuff en-masse could not disagree with us more. Here's a piece of legwork for you; google the number of sales of, say, Ford Explorers for this fiscal year, vs Toyota's Prius. Better still, Explorers alone vs all makes of hybrid gas/electric currently available. I used to feel the auto manufacturers were pure evil, but I've come to realize now that they do what they do because of what the consumer wants. Companies exist to make money, and if consumers demands 50mpg cars they would get them right now. Hell, they CAN get them right now. But look at those numbers... What this really means, is that if we wish the situation to change we need to address the basic things that people want from transportation. I don't think Dean Kamen understands that part of the equation yet, and his sales figures certainly bear that out. OK, here's another clue, Dean. The tires. They should be perhaps twice the diameter, and several times thicker. It would not be a bad idea to have chrome plated rims, I'd sell those as premium add-ons. But the stock tires need to be MUCH larger. I'm not even going to mention color. You would think after Ford's early experiences with this folks would smell the coffee huh? Even on this basic issue, Dean seems completely clueless. Grey??? (smacking forehead with open palm repeatedly). K. -----Original Message----- From: rgajra@vsnl.com [mailto:rgajra@vsnl.com] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 1:07 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Baby Seggie Available If I were to be one of the potential customers of Segway (which I am not) and looked at the utility it provides then I would prefer to have it quiet. I like quiet machines. But thats me. Rajesh From: "Keith Nagel" To: Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:26 PM Subject: RE: Baby Seggie Available .................................... The Segway is too quiet. It needs to be LOUD! Or more to the point, it needs a distinctive sound. The best sound for this purpose is something sub-sonic, windows should shake as you pass. But given the peculiar nature of the device, I'm thinking something ear-piercingly high pitched would be more suitable. Think "ninja-bike" sound and you're getting warm................... From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 12 13:47:51 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id NAA06829; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:46:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:46:08 -0800 Message-ID: <20031212204459.31808.qmail@camelot.verisoft.com.tr> From: hamdi ucar To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: hamdix@verisoft.com.tr Subject: More on Williamson's electron model Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 22:44:59 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jhi5J2.0.cg1.WSZs_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52629 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I just figured out a possibility how the photon of the Williamson model follow its circular path: In his model electric field of the photon is oriented radially and the magnetic field axially. As model suggests, the radial electric field emulate the charge, the moving charge belong the photon may interact with its own magnetic field and follow a curved path. This would be similar to an charged particle act in a external magnetic field. If this this logic is not faulty, it would further give restrictions on geometric size and field strengths. It may explain why the model should have only one solution. Ref: http://members.chello.nl/~n.benschop/electron.pdf Regards, hamdi ucar From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 12 14:53:50 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id OAA13765; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:52:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:52:09 -0800 Message-ID: <3FDA3D68.9F4276B2@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:12:56 -0800 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD472 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vortex Subject: [Fwd: WHAT'S NEW Friday, December 12, 2003] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zgshi2.0.1N3.PQas_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52630 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: WHAT'S NEW Friday, December 12, 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:49:19 -0500 From: "What's New" Reply-To: whatsnew@bobpark.org To: Akira Kawasaki WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 12 Dec 03 Washington, DC 1. ELECTRONIC VOTING: HOW WILL YOU KNOW IF YOUR VOTE IS COUNTED? You won't. After the 2000 election fiasco in Florida, election officials across the country sought to modernize voting. This has meant a lot of business for companies that make touch-screen electronic voting machines. However, voters may also be getting the business - the machine codes are proprietary secrets (WN 25 Apr 03). This puts vote counting under full control of private companies, with no way to conduct an audit. If this isn't scary enough, there's the fund-raising letter to Ohio Republicans from the CEO of Diebold, the major supplier of touch-screen voting machines: "I am committed to helping Ohio deliver it's electoral votes to the President." He is in a perfect position to do so. A study for the State of Ohio, found 57 serious security flaws in electronic voting machines. Our best hope is H.R.2239, the Voter Confidence and Increased Accessibility Act of 2003, introduced by Rep. Rush Holt (D-NJ), a physicist. The bill would require a voter-verified paper trail for all voting machines, making audits possible. There are currently 74 bi-partisan cosponsors. 2. UNIVERSITY OF WORLD PEACE: TRAINING PROFESSIONAL MEDITATORS. The Washington Post yesterday carried a photograph of a peaceful- looking audience, seated with their eyes closed. It looked like an 8:00am section of Physics 101. The caption said they were meditating to raise $1 billion to build a University of World Peace, with scholarships to train 8,000 meditation experts. You can imagine that with 8,000 UWP graduates, they will be able to meditate even larger sums. Followers of the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, they sought $1B after 9/11 to train 40,000 meditators who would generate a "unified field" that would create world peace (WN 28 Sep 01). They must not have raised the full amount. 3. HUMAN CLONING: U.N. DEBATE ON TOTAL BAN IS DELAYED FOR A YEAR. All member nations agree on a treaty to prohibit cloning of human beings, but the United States leads a push to extend the ban to include therapeutic cloning of stem cells. Therapeutic cloning is regarded as a promising approach to research on treatment of diseases ranging from cancer to Alzheimer's. The U.S. position is opposed by our most important allies and almost the entire world scientific community. It is backed by Costa Rica and the Catholic Church. At home, the Bush administration is at odds with 40 Nobel Prize winners, the National Academy of Sciences, the American Medical Association, many scientific societies the AAAS. 4. NOBEL MADNESS: CAMPAIGN BY SCORNED INVENTOR ONLY INTENSIFIES. There have been a lot of disappointed almost-Nobels, but nothing before like the costly public rampage of Raymond Damadian, who was left off the 2003 Medicine Nobel, given for MRI (WN 10 Oct 03). He began with full-page ads in major newspapers, which is not inexpensive. No good could come of this, and most scientists seemed at most sort of embarrassed for Damadian, but the full- page ads just kept coming. On Tuesday, the day before the award ceremony, he took one last shot: a double-page NYT ad in color. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.aps.org/WN You are currently subscribed to whatsnew as: aki@ix.netcom.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-whatsnew-27231J@lists.apsmsgs.org To subscribe, send a blank e-mail to: From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 12 15:02:04 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id OAA20833; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:59:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:59:41 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031212162603.01cac0a8@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:53:27 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Elevated Guideways, other futuristic transportation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"PMmye2.0.H55.RXas_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52631 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Don Wiegel points to an interesting web site: http://members.cox.net/prtdesign/guideway.html Weigel writes: > This is what the Segway people had in mind when designing this vehicle. > Elevated Guideways .. Did they really? That is very bold of them. An elevated guideway for Segways, bicycles or pedestrians would require two modifications not described in the Ptrdesign document: 1. The angle of the access ramps would have to be shallow compared to ramps for motor vehicles. 2. In the US, I think the guideway pavements would have to be covered, possibly even enclosed. People do not like to ride outdoors in inclement or cold weather. In China or Japan they ride bicycles in bad weather, but you could not persuade Americans to do that. Actually, the truth is, since you cannot ride a Segway on the sidewalk in most cities, and you have to go on the street, you might as well ride a bicycle instead. Bicycles are much cheaper and faster. This elevated guideway idea looks slick, and I wish we had these guildways, but I doubt they can be built in most major urban areas such as Washington DC, New York or Philadelphia, and we do not need them anywhere else. There is no room to build such an infrastructure in older cities, and it would be too disruptive to build it. I think the traffic problem will not be solved until two things happen: 1. We do much more telecommuting and virtual presence; 2. We develop computers roughly as smart as dogs. Such computers will be far better qualified to drive automobiles than people. They will be capable of driving at faster speeds, closer together, with orders of magnitude fewer accidents. They will use radar as well as visual detection, and they will communicate with one another perfectly to coordinate merging into traffic, turning and other maneuvers. They will obey the traffic laws precisely, and they will never be arrested for DUI or road rage. I predict there will be no manually operated motor vehicles in the year 2100. One advantage will be, when a person gets falling down drunk, stumbles into his car, and falls asleep halfway home, no one will know or care, and he will not violate any laws. This will also be handy when you want to send a package across town quickly. You will put the package in the car, tell the car where you want it delivered, and the car will take care of the rest. When you cannot find a parking place, you will tell the car to go home, and come back in two hours to pick you up. This will eliminate "soccer moms" who spend hours driving their kids around. Any child over six years old will be able to ride in a car by herself, just as kids can ride buses today. I predict that computers as smart as dogs will also be better qualified to perform many "skilled" jobs, such as surgery. In the year 2100 (or perhaps 2300) I predict it will be against the law for any human being to practice medicine. I hope computers reach this stage in another 20 to 50 years. A recent article in these Scientific American made that seem likely. When computers reach the same intelligence level as humans, there will really be no real work left for any of us, because machines are already so much better than people for most tasks. The only thing they lack now is smarts. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 12 15:14:29 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id PAA29645; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:12:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:12:10 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031212180111.01cad6e0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:12:12 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: [Fwd: WHAT'S NEW Friday, December 12, 2003] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"BTC3J1.0.3F7.Ajas_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52632 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Akira Kawasaki quotes you-know-who: > 1. ELECTRONIC VOTING: HOW WILL YOU KNOW IF YOUR VOTE IS COUNTED? > You won't. After the 2000 election fiasco in Florida, election > officials across the country sought to modernize voting. . . . There is more about this topic in Cringely's column this week. He offers excellent advice: http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20031211.html > 4. NOBEL MADNESS: CAMPAIGN BY SCORNED INVENTOR ONLY INTENSIFIES. > There have been a lot of disappointed almost-Nobels, but nothing > before like the costly public rampage of Raymond Damadian, who > was left off the 2003 Medicine Nobel, given for MRI (WN 10 Oct > 03). He began with full-page ads in major newspapers, which is > not inexpensive. No good could come of this, and most scientists > seemed at most sort of embarrassed for Damadian . . . This is a very peculiar thing to say, even for Robert Park! He does not mention that Damadian did, in fact, invent the MRI, and if anyone deserves a Nobel for the MRI, Damadian does. No one disputes this, as far as I know. Park acts as if ethics, academic priority, and fairness simply do not exist. He dismisses justice as a mere embarrassment. People who want credit for a decades of difficult labor, carried out despite rabid opposition, are annoying. They should shut up and let someone else take the credit. Park says that "no good can come from" setting the historic record right, or asking for recognition for your life's work. Park is the strangest of strange dudes. I am sometimes glad he opposes us. Imagine the harm he might do if he were on our side. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 08:14:04 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA27365; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:12:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:12:51 -0800 Message-ID: <20031213161216.3405.qmail@camelot.verisoft.com.tr> References: In-Reply-To: From: hamdi ucar To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: hamdix@verisoft.com.tr Subject: Re: Baby Seggie Available Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 18:12:15 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rPNFl2.0.Xh6.3gps_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52633 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Uh, I forget some comments on tires. Flat surface (without ridges) tires first remind worn tires, then again tires used in appliances and cheap toys. Even we dont wear flat bottom sport shoes because the slides on wet surfaces. The brain I think memorize good and faulty designs as patterns in long term and place them in aesthetic library. Keith Nagel writes: > Regards, hamdi ucar From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 08:32:29 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA08742; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:31:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:31:12 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20031213163014.0069c41c@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 16:30:14 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Baby Seggie Available Resent-Message-ID: <"cjkm3.0.S82.Fxps_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52634 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:12 pm 13-12-03 +0200, you wrote: >Uh, I forget some comments on tires. Flat surface (without ridges) tires >first remind worn tires, then again tires used in appliances and cheap toys. > >Even we dont wear flat bottom sport shoes because the slides on wet >surfaces. > >The brain I think memorize good and faulty designs as patterns in long term >and place them in aesthetic library. > >Regards, >hamdi ucar What I would like to see is a computer controlled monocycle one could sit on. Now that would be something 8-) Frank Grimer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 08:43:41 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA18610; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:42:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:42:07 -0800 Message-ID: <20031213154119.30940.qmail@camelot.verisoft.com.tr> References: In-Reply-To: From: hamdi ucar To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Baby Seggie Available Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:41:19 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1PxSL3.0.jY4.U5qs_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52635 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Keith, This is exactly I figured few days ago, what makes the Segway looking so unpleasant. Wheels look like wheels of most carriers/appliances used in industry, wheels of cheap plastic toys, trash cans wheels, even to plastic top cover of cheap containers. Even trash can manufacturers cares more than Camen on the design of these circular covers, tries to gives them some aesthetic appearance, avoiding to resemble to ugly forms which become uglier when they get deformed under the stress and heat. Keith Nagel writes: > > OK, here's another clue, Dean. The tires. They should > be perhaps twice the diameter, and several times thicker. > It would not be a bad idea to have chrome plated rims, > I'd sell those as premium add-ons. But the stock tires > need to be MUCH larger. > > I'm not even going to mention color. You would think > after Ford's early experiences with this folks would > smell the coffee huh? Even on this basic issue, Dean > seems completely clueless. Grey??? (smacking forehead > with open palm repeatedly). > > K. > Regards, hamdi ucar From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 08:48:51 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA23960; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:47:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:47:43 -0800 Message-ID: <20031213164711.72690.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:47:11 -0800 (PST) From: Jones Beene Subject: Randomness and expectation To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"qBecX2.0.Ks5.lAqs_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52636 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In laboratory work which is not robust enough for absolute reproducibility, the question arises about subtle input from the researcher, the “expectation effect”. We are not talking about an ethics-lapse or even “fudging” the results, but something more along the lines of a transferable "placebo effect." Although many negative things may be claimed about the unscientific basis of the placebo effect, make no mistake about it – the cure is real for the patient experiencing it, despite the fact that the cure may have little to do with the medicine administered. There is a group called the Boundary Institute whose theoretical and experimental work has focused on the concepts of randomness and causality in physics. Their theoretical work suggests that certain random physical processes (such as the "collapse" of the wave function in quantum mechanics) may not be as random and indeterminate as reputed by the ‘science establishment,’ and in fact many forms of QM interaction may be dependent on factors such as “will” or the transferable expectations of the researchers or even society-at-large. Now a number of people view cold fusion as a higher probability form of QM interaction anyway, a situation where the wave function of two deuterium atoms collapse and then merge as one helium wave function. As such, there exists a path where subtle expectation can enter the picture – but can this positive ‘expectation effect’ ever become a reality in the sense of a permanent higher probability – i.e. with results made reproducible by others not so inclined? It has been mentioned before that cold fusion is approaching the level of notoriety where is becoming a cultural meme (as Sheldrake defines it), therefore the logical question arises as to if and how those expectations, having reached the level of critical mass, are translated into reality? This “process” of the imaginary being made real, may have already happened previously in science (most semiconductors now employ quantum tunneling, once thought to be only an imaginary or at best a too-low probability process for industry). There is a downside risk if negative expectation (such as in the form of hatred) can be made more robust through general acceptance (as the pogroms and witch hunts throughout history have demonstrated) - and one of the scariest manifestations of this is seen on the Boundary group’s website: http://www.boundaryinstitute.org/randomness.htm this page having to do with a worldwide “disturbance in the force” on 9/11. But the implication of the Boundary group’s “big picture” is this: if the events of 9/11 can be interpreted as some kind of “divine intervention” does that mean that the USA was somehow being punished for an affront (to Gaia, let’s say, if you don’t wish to get too biblical) i.e. for accumulated past bad actions and greed. Some in the Middle East might like to interpret it that way, but “a disturbance in the force” on 9/11 might also have a far different slant (for those who want to make that giant leap of belief and try to explain every tragedy in the broadest of figurative terms) to wit: 1) preempting a much larger tragedy (such Al Quaeda getting hold of “the bomb” had it not been rendered too weak to now do so by our inevitable retaliation) or 2) making the world at large a better place (a small comparative sacrifice by the richest nation so that 20 million others could eventually emerge from tyranny into freedom) or 3) preparing this country for an expanded role of leadership (in the sense of ‘that which doesn’t kill you makes you stronger’) Many of us grew up with the pilgrim-influenced teaching that nothing good comes without great sacrifice, and although I am personally not ready to equate recent World events with divine intervention, I would reluctantly accept the tradeoffs implicit in 3) above, especially if it somehow foreshadows a large-scale emergence -one avenue of emergence being a “new age” realized through freeing ourselves and the planet from an unholy dependence on fossil fuels, accomplished by what can be called a permanent "willed" alteration of “chance” … and lest we forget, like Gaia herself, we know that Aquarius, this generations’ symbol of a new dawning, is a “water bearer”… Jones ...on a lighter but more uncertain note.... A policeman pulls Werner Heisenberg over on the autobahn for speeding. Policeman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going ?" Heisenberg: "No, young man, but I know exactly where I am." From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 08:57:32 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA29740; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:55:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:55:35 -0800 Message-ID: <20031213165458.11210.qmail@camelot.verisoft.com.tr> References: <2.2.32.20031213163014.0069c41c@pop.freeserve.net> In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20031213163014.0069c41c@pop.freeserve.net> From: hamdi ucar To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: hamdix@verisoft.com.tr Subject: Re: Baby Seggie Available Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 18:54:58 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"as3pk3.0.eG7.7Iqs_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52637 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Grimer writes: > What I would like to see is a computer controlled > monocycle one could sit on. Now that would be something 8-) > > Frank Grimer > Done! very recently. See http://www.linksheaven.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3132 Unfortunately the site http://recreation.bombardier.com/En/Media/PressReleases.aspx?press=2005 removed everything about the "embrio" Regards, hamdi ucar From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 10:12:07 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA20744; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:09:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:09:24 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031213130528.00b13738@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 13:09:25 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Recent studies show the placebo effect does not exist Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"b9g4G.0.y35.JNrs_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52638 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jones Beene writes: > In laboratory work which is not robust enough for > absolute reproducibility, the question arises about > subtle input from the researcher, the "expectation > effect". We are not talking about an ethics-lapse or > even "fudging" the results, but something more along > the lines of a transferable "placebo effect." > > Although many negative things may be claimed about the > unscientific basis of the placebo effect, make no > mistake about it the cure is real for the patient > experiencing it, despite the fact that the cure may > have little to do with the medicine administered. I do not believe in the placebo effect. I have always been suspicious of it. Recent research indicates that it does not exist. It was based on dubious statistics that were never replicated. It now appears that people taking placebos get better, or worse, at the same rate as people who receive no treatment at all. See the New England Journal of Medicine: http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/344/21/1594 Here is a summary from the New York Times: http://www.stat.ncsu.edu/~st101_info/dietz/handouts/placebo2.html - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 10:14:20 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA21879; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:10:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:10:54 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20031213180955.00691cdc@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 18:09:55 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Baby Seggie Available Resent-Message-ID: <"Ov-AQ.0.mL5.jOrs_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52639 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:54 pm 13-12-03 +0200, you wrote: >Grimer writes: > >> What I would like to see is a computer controlled >> monocycle one could sit on. Now that would be something 8-) >> >> Frank Grimer >> > >Done! very recently. See >http://www.linksheaven.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3132 > >Regards, > >hamdi ucar > It is certainly much better looking than the Seg but why does the wheel have to be so big - and why for that matter does one need gyros. A man on a unicycle doesn't have gyros. If they can make jet fighters which are so unstable that a man can't control them and they need computers to fly, surely it should be possible to make a unicycle with the same balancing capabilities. Frank Grimer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 11:13:51 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id LAA24068; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:09:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:09:23 -0800 Message-ID: <20031213190851.7359.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:08:51 -0800 (PST) From: Jones Beene Subject: Re: Recent studies show the placebo effect does not exist To: vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20031213130528.00b13738@pop.mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"9BagI2.0.0u5.ZFss_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52640 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --- Jed Rothwell writes: > I do not believe in the placebo effect. I have always been suspicious of it. Recent research indicates that it does not exist. Did you read that article? Apparently not well, as that was not the conclusion. What they concluded was - in the trials that they chose to look at, there was some but "little evidence in general that placebos had *powerful* clinical effects." Maybe the placebo effect doesn't work for Rothwell personally but the recent study he refers to has already been blasted as being absurd because they "pick and choose" for only the evidence that fits their conclusion - a tactic, even more dubious, one suspects, than the one in the MIT study finding no excess heat in experiments where it was evident in some runs. How can any study of other studies overcome this kind of evidence: "Doctors in one study *successfully eliminated* warts by painting them with a brightly colored, inert dye and promising patients the warts would be gone when the color wore off." Were the doctor's eyes fooled and the warts were really there? I guess this recent study of other studies missed that particular one ...or... "In a study of asthmatics, researchers found that they could produce dilation of the airways by simply telling people they were inhaling a bronchiodilator, even when they weren't. Patients suffering pain after wisdom-tooth extraction got just as much relief from a fake application of ultrasound as from a real one, so long as both patient and therapist thought the machine was on." "Fifty-two percent of the colitis patients treated with placebo in 11 different trials reported feeling better -- and 50 percent of the inflamed intestines actually looked better when assessed with sigmoidoscope ("The Placebo Prescription" by Margaret Talbot, New York Times Magazine, January 9, 2000). The evidence is overwhelming for a placebo effect that works, and works especially well for pain, for some substantial part of the population - one often sees the figure of 50% - and the fact that Rothwell is not among them doesn't mean that the effect doesn't exist at all... Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 11:18:06 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id LAA27916; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:15:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:15:32 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Baby Seggie Available Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 14:39:13 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20031213165458.11210.qmail@camelot.verisoft.com.tr> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"sBg6C.0.8q6.KLss_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52641 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Hamdi. Yes, I think you also get why Segway has been such a dismal failure to date. The Segway styling surprises me somewhat, Dean seems to spend a lot of time with highschool age kids, you'd think he'd be more clued in??? On the other hand, considering who would be attending those robotics contests he's been promoting, maybe _that_ explains the styling of the product... The unicycle you post is definitely closer to a saleable product. The big wheel is very good, the color needs work though. The fact that it looks incredibly dangerous to drive is a HUGE selling point, that's the kind of thing that creates a craze. You know, the more I think about it and look around the neighborhood here, the more I think that Dean's sitting on some valuable IP. He just doesn't have a clue about what drives the average person to buy things. What does all this have to do with alternative energy??? A lot, I say. More than many here will ever be willing to consciously admit. Here's a start for the bold amongst you. Anyone remember Joe Newman? Yup, how could we forget? Well, he's alive and well, and still selling his free energy machine. Lives quite well on the proceeds. It's been something like 40 years now, that he's been pitching his motor. Discuss. K. -----Original Message----- From: hamdi ucar [mailto:hamdix@iris.com.tr] Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 11:55 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: hamdix@verisoft.com.tr Subject: Re: Baby Seggie Available Grimer writes: > What I would like to see is a computer controlled > monocycle one could sit on. Now that would be something 8-) > > Frank Grimer > Done! very recently. See http://www.linksheaven.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3132 Unfortunately the site http://recreation.bombardier.com/En/Media/PressReleases.aspx?press=2005 removed everything about the "embrio" Regards, hamdi ucar From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 12:21:32 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id MAA05718; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:18:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:18:49 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031213143208.01cad708@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 15:01:07 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Recent studies show the placebo effect does not exist Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"2Ey8o3.0.CP1.fGts_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52642 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jones Beene writes: > Did you read that article? Apparently not well, as > that was not the conclusion. What they concluded was - > in the trials that they chose to look at, there was > some but "little evidence in general that placebos had > *powerful* clinical effects." No, the conclusion was that placebos have no effect whatever. I read both the NJM and the New York Times article carefully. Placebos are exactly comparable to no treatment at all, in every study that has included a group that receives no treatment. The only measurable effects placebos have are caused by patients trying to please doctors, when they respond to subjective questions, such as "do you feel better?" Placebos have no effects on clinical phenomena that can be measured objectively, with instruments, such as blood pressure, and they have no effect on prognosis or longevity. They do sometimes cure psychosomatic illness, of course. > Maybe the placebo effect doesn't work for Rothwell > personally . . . I wasn't talking about me. I very seldom get ill, so I have no experience to refer to. > but the recent study he refers to has > already been blasted as being absurd because they > "pick and choose" for only the evidence that fits > their conclusion . . . I do not think so. They looked at every study they could find that included three groups, instead of the usual two: active drug, placebo, PLUS a no treatment group. > How can any study of other studies overcome this kind > of evidence: > > "Doctors in one study *successfully eliminated* warts > by painting them with a brightly colored, inert dye > and promising patients the warts would be gone > when the color wore off." It is easy to overcome this evidence. All you have to do is observe a group of patients who have warts who get no treatment at all, and do not even see a doctor. You will find that warts often disappear on their own. (I have had warts actually, and they went away without a visit to the doctor.) If these researchers did not compare their results to a group of people who received no treatment, their results are meaningless. This is like doing a CF experiment without calibrating or running a blank. Also, it is possible that inert dye, or plain water, or the act of brushing or irritating the wart has some effect on it. You would have to do another test in which you tell the patient this is only dye, and it should have no effect. > "In a study of asthmatics, researchers found that they > could produce dilation of the airways by simply > telling people they were inhaling a bronchiodilator, > even when they weren't. . . . I have never had asthma, but everyone I know who has it has gotten better, usually without treatment, often very quickly. The effects come and go. > Patients suffering pain after > wisdom-tooth extraction got just as much relief from a > fake application of ultrasound as from a real one, so > long as both patient and therapist thought the machine > was on." Pain is partly subjective. Some people feel they are suffering a great deal, and others who are probably experiencing as much nerve stimulation say it hardly matters. You would have to find a way to measure the nerve stimulation directly to find out whether this effect is real, or whether people are merely being diverted from their sensations. It may be they are simply being polite, or bucking up. Japanese troops in Russo-Japanese war were often capable of walking and continuing to fight with wounds that western soldiers would consider debilitating. President Kennedy used to inoculate himself in the leg with a powerful drug, and a huge needle, every day. One day of his old Navy buddies said, "you seem awfully thick skinned. Doesn't that hurt? You act like it does not hurt at all." Kennedy jabbed the needle into his friend's leg. His friend howled with pain, and Kennedy said: "Does that hurt? Of course it hurts me just as much." But he was used to it. My mother, who had four children over many years and saw many other births, said that much of the pain, complaints, and apparent suffering in delivery rooms was eliminated when doctors started allowing the mother's husbands and relatives into the delivery room to watch the birth. She said, "of course it hurts as much as it ever did, but women are ashamed to make a scene in front of their families, so they grin and bear it, and stop acting like ninnies." She said when the doctors and nurses saw that, they thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, which is why they advocate enthusiastically. It makes their jobs easier. > "Fifty-two percent of the colitis patients treated > with placebo in 11 different trials reported feeling > better -- and 50 percent of the inflamed > intestines actually looked better when assessed with > sigmoidoscope . . . And what percent got better with no treatment and no visit to the doctor? Bear in mind that countless medical treatments have been found to be worse than nothing -- actually detrimental. This happens all the time, even now. Recently, hormone treatments for post-menopausal woman were discovered to be significantly worse than nothing, which confounded thirty years of observations and the most advanced medical knowledge. Compared to engineering, safety, public health (sewage and vaccinations) and other disciplines, GP medicine is still in the dark ages, a hundred years behind the times. Statistics and objective measurements could be used, but they are not. Human factors engineering is ignored, leading to tens of thousands of unnecessary mistakes and deaths. There are practically no comparisons between different hospitals and doctors. Treatments that are extremely common in one New York county are seldom performed in others. The rates of Cesarian births vary tremendously from one doctor to another. There is no rhyme or reason to it, and hardly any science worthy of the name. > The evidence is overwhelming for a placebo effect that > works . . . No, it is an elementary mistake in statistics. Placebos, and other so-called "mind over matter" hypothesis regarding disease are an attempt to blame the patient for the disease. From very ancient times, people have tried to prove that patients are responsible for their illness. It was said the patient was being punished for his sins, or he did not have enough faith in God, or nowadays, or faith in the doctors, or he does not "try hard enough" or believe they will recover. I call this the "Tinker Bell" theory of medicine. People want to believe this because they fear illness, and the loss of control. They think, "I will not get sick, because I have faith, I can control my fate, my mind can overcome the disease. He is sick because he has no faith." In fact, while disease often affects one's mind, or one's faith, or attitude, it never works the other way. Attitude never affects disease. Disease is a purely physical process. Infectious disease is a battle between the cells in your body and the invading bacteria or virus. Or, if will and attitude do play a role, it seems to me that the attitude of the bacteria is the key. Bacteria are as alive as you or me. They have an enormous will to live, and astounding flexibility and strength. I suppose one could say they have a kind primitive proto-mind, or will. They play as much of an active role as the patient does. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 13:35:42 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id NAA25176; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 13:32:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 13:32:44 -0800 Message-ID: <20031213213211.76211.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 13:32:11 -0800 (PST) From: Jones Beene Subject: Re: Recent studies show the placebo effect does not exist To: vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20031213143208.01cad708@pop.mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"q-LWu3.0.K96.xLus_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52643 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --- Jed Rothwell writes: > I read both the NJM and the New York Times article carefully. Then you no-doubt reviewed and rejected the findings from the NIH conference on the placebo effect and know that their conclusion was vastly different? http://placebo.nih.gov/ How does one reject the careful opinion of a large number of experts in favor of biased research from obscure foreign doctors who decided to use only 32 out of 130 studies because the 98 that they didn't select fell out of self-serving and ridiculous guidelines (they used a strange and very limited definition of "binary" that excuded many careful studies that contradicted their intended results) NIH hosted the meeting that attracted over 500 medical scholars, researchers, and clinicians. "Not only were the participants eager to explore the science of the placebo, they were also keen to revisit the ethics of placebo use in the clinic and in clinical trials. Thus has the placebo been transformed in a few short years from a sham in medical practice and a control agent in clinical trials to a therapeutic ally. Some skepticism remains, however, as witness the May 24, 2001 article by Hrobjartsson and Gotzsche in the New England Journal of Medicine," who concluded that they “found little evidence that placebos in general have powerful clinical effects.” In contrast, most of the 500 conference participants found that placebo effects "appear to be real and significant, not make-believe" This new legitimacy is altering and expanding the concept of the placebo from its pejorative 19th century definition as “a medicine adapted more to please than benefit the patient,” to one that encompasses many features occurring in the course of patient–provider interactions that can positively affect health and wellbeing." Of course, you are still free to take the word of a couple of obscure foreign doctors who used antiquated statisical tools and carefully screened the studies for those that matched their self-serving criteria, but don't expect to overturn the opinions of most of the medical profession. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 18:01:02 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id RAA12896; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:57:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:57:52 -0800 From: rgajra@vsnl.com Message-ID: <003401c3c187$2ef10900$e9e9a8c0@etcnetwork> To: References: Subject: Re: Baby Seggie Available Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 20:11:24 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Resent-Message-ID: <"uYVS-2.0.N93.VEys_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52644 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Keith I got your point but wanted to deliberately miss it! If I were to have created the Seggie then I would not wish to spoil its utility by introducing jazziness and noise regardless of what response I get. But again thats me! Rajesh From: "Keith Nagel" To: Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 2:45 AM Subject: RE: Baby Seggie Available Hi Rajesh. I think you're missing the point. We can all agree about the great benefits of efficient, silent transport. The problem is, the people who buy this stuff en-masse could not disagree with us more. Here's a piece of legwork for you; google the number of sales of, say, Ford Explorers for this fiscal year, vs Toyota's Prius. Better still, Explorers alone vs all makes of hybrid gas/electric currently available. I used to feel the auto manufacturers were pure evil, but I've come to realize now that they do what they do because of what the consumer wants. Companies exist to make money, and if consumers demands 50mpg cars they would get them right now. Hell, they CAN get them right now. But look at those numbers... What this really means, is that if we wish the situation to change we need to address the basic things that people want from transportation. I don't think Dean Kamen understands that part of the equation yet, and his sales figures certainly bear that out. OK, here's another clue, Dean. The tires. They should be perhaps twice the diameter, and several times thicker. It would not be a bad idea to have chrome plated rims, I'd sell those as premium add-ons. But the stock tires need to be MUCH larger. I'm not even going to mention color. You would think after Ford's early experiences with this folks would smell the coffee huh? Even on this basic issue, Dean seems completely clueless. Grey??? (smacking forehead with open palm repeatedly). K. -----Original Message----- From: rgajra@vsnl.com [mailto:rgajra@vsnl.com] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 1:07 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Baby Seggie Available If I were to be one of the potential customers of Segway (which I am not) and looked at the utility it provides then I would prefer to have it quiet. I like quiet machines. But thats me. Rajesh From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 13 22:05:23 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id WAA20680; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:02:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:02:44 -0800 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20031213220618.00a917a0@mail.dlsi.net> X-Sender: stevek@mail.dlsi.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:07:30 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steve Krivit Subject: Akira Kawasaki, I need your email address or phone please Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"ebB-h3.0.435.4q_s_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52645 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steve Krivit From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 14 21:17:04 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id VAA04743; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:15:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:15:27 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: "Vortex" Subject: Gleanings in bee culture Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:39:07 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"o3N4U2.0.3A1.kDKt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52646 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Here's a good link for Jed's website. http://www.mannlib.cornell.edu/about/exhibit/Beekeeping/atlantic/page4.html K. This issue of the Medina, Ohio based beekeeping magazine has the distinction of publishing the first eyewitness account of the Wright Brothers' historic manned flight in Kitty Hawk, North Carolina. A. I. Root, the publisher of Gleanings in Bee Culture and a longtime friend of the flight pioneers, was permitted to write this first account and sent it off to "Scientific American." After nearly a year of silence on the part of the magazine, Root wrote its editor, who responded that it was difficult to believe that the event had actually occurred and that even if it had, the airplane would never have any practical application. When Root showed this response to the Wright Brothers, they suggested that he go ahead and publish it in his beekeeping magazine. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 08:08:58 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA01152; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:04:48 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:04:48 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031215100409.00b13720@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:16:15 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Recent studies show the placebo effect does not exist Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"Zo-642.0.wH.RkTt_"@mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52647 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene writes: > Then you no-doubt reviewed and rejected the findings > from the NIH conference on the placebo effect and know > that their conclusion was vastly different? > http://placebo.nih.gov/ Nope, I know nothing about this NIH conference, so I cannot comment on it. But if they did not compare placebos to no treatment, the results do not count. > How does one reject the careful opinion of a large > number of experts in favor of biased research from > obscure foreign doctors who decided to use only 32 out > of 130 studies . . . They do not seem biased to me. I cannot access the NJM article for some reason, but the N. Y. Times article says they used 114 out of 114 studies -- all of the ones that were applicable. > In contrast, most of the 500 conference participants > found that placebo effects "appear to be real and > significant, not make-believe" Did they compare placebos to no treatment? I have often said that observations and experiments are never wrong. There is no doubt that patients who take placebos often feel better. There is also no doubt that high loading of Pd is necessary for the CF effect, and that it proves the effect occurs in the "crowded bulk." The problem is not the observations, it is the conclusions that people draw from them. The patients who feel better would have felt better even if they had not gone to the doctor, or if you had told them the placebo was a placebo. High loading in Pd is probably only necessary because it forces many deuterons to the surface and near surface regions. > Of course, you are still free to take the word of a > couple of obscure foreign doctors who used antiquated > statisical tools . . . Yes, I often do exactly that. I take the word of Ohmori in particular, who uses an antiquated tools such as a voltmeter from the 1950s, and mercury thermometers from who-knows-when. I take his word even when his findings and conclusion fly in the face of the widely accepted majority views. In science, there is no advantage to a majority, when that majority of researchers is doing the wrong experiment, or asking the wrong questions. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 09:09:17 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA22903; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:58:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:58:57 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031215111116.01cb14d0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:27:09 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Recent studies show the placebo . . . CORRECTION Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"Marh3.0.ib5.GXUt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52648 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wrote: > I have often said that observations and experiments are never wrong. There > is no doubt that patients who take placebos often feel better. There is > also no doubt that high loading of Pd is necessary for the CF effect, and > that it proves the effect occurs in the "crowded bulk." I meant just the opposite: There is no doubt that high loading of Pd is necessary for the CF effect, BUT THAT DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN the effect occurs in the "crowded bulk." Many people still think it does mean that. Perhaps they are right, but a more prosaic reason seems likely: the crowding is only required to keep other deuterons close to the surface. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 09:10:44 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id JAA27335; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:04:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:04:38 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031215104000.00b13710@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:04:55 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Gleanings in bee culture Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"f6QVz1.0.3h6.bcUt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52649 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Keith Nagel writes: > Here's a good link for Jed's website. It is off topic. But it is good to see Root get the credit he deserves. He has often been portrayed as a kind of harmless fanatic, perhaps because he mixed in his columns, including the ones about the Wrights, with religion. A new book by James Tobin, "To Conquer the Air," describes him detail, and reveals that he was a successful businessman, researcher and publisher with a powerful intellect. He was a contrarian not unlike many CF researchers. "He liked to be the first to try new machines, even, perhaps especially, if others made fun of him." He powered his workshop with electricity generated by a windmill. His magazine, "Gleaning in Bee Culture," is still being published. The title is now "Bee Culture." They offer reprints of the 1900 editions and of Root's columns. See: http://www.beeculture.com/beeculture/index.htm A. I. Root, Inc. is still listed in Medina, OH. He was not an "old friend" of the Wrights. He championed them in his column starting in early 1904, and visited them and made their acquaintance later that year. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 09:44:00 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id JAA27313; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:39:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:39:51 -0800 Message-ID: <20031215155255.83524.qmail@web11708.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 07:52:55 -0800 (PST) From: alexander hollins Subject: Re: Randomness and expectation To: vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <20031213164711.72690.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"N5Y2j.0.gg6.b7Vt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52650 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: since i was a snot nosed little kid, its always seemed to me that attitude and intent of people affected what they did. the power of belief, i refer to it as. yes, i think its more than possible. its plausible. --- Jones Beene wrote: > In laboratory work which is not robust enough for > absolute reproducibility, the question arises about > subtle input from the researcher, the “expectation > effect”. We are not talking about an ethics-lapse or > even “fudging” the results, but something more along > the lines of a transferable "placebo effect." > > Although many negative things may be claimed about > the > unscientific basis of the placebo effect, make no > mistake about it – the cure is real for the patient > experiencing it, despite the fact that the cure may > have little to do with the medicine administered. > > There is a group called the Boundary Institute whose > theoretical and experimental work has focused on the > concepts of randomness and causality in physics. > Their > theoretical work suggests that certain random > physical > processes (such as the "collapse" of the wave > function > in quantum mechanics) may not be as random and > indeterminate as reputed by the ‘science > establishment,’ and in fact many forms of QM > interaction may be dependent on factors such as > “will” > or the transferable expectations of the researchers > or > even society-at-large. > > Now a number of people view cold fusion as a higher > probability form of QM interaction anyway, a > situation > where the wave function of two deuterium atoms > collapse and then merge as one helium wave function. > As such, there exists a path where subtle > expectation > can enter the picture – but can this positive > ‘expectation effect’ ever become a reality in the > sense of a permanent higher probability – i.e. with > results made reproducible by others not so inclined? > It has been mentioned before that cold fusion is > approaching the level of notoriety where is becoming > a > cultural meme (as Sheldrake defines it), therefore > the > logical question arises as to if and how those > expectations, having reached the level of critical > mass, are translated into reality? This “process” of > the imaginary being made real, may have already > happened previously in science (most semiconductors > now employ quantum tunneling, once thought to be > only > an imaginary or at best a too-low probability > process > for industry). > > There is a downside risk if negative expectation > (such > as in the form of hatred) can be made more robust > through general acceptance (as the pogroms and witch > hunts throughout history have demonstrated) - and > one > of the scariest manifestations of this is seen on > the > Boundary group’s website: > http://www.boundaryinstitute.org/randomness.htm > this page having to do with a worldwide “disturbance > in the force” on 9/11. > > But the implication of the Boundary group’s “big > picture” is this: if the events of 9/11 can be > interpreted as some kind of “divine intervention” > does > that mean that the USA was somehow being punished > for > an affront (to Gaia, let’s say, if you don’t wish to > get too biblical) i.e. for accumulated past bad > actions and greed. Some in the Middle East might > like > to interpret it that way, but “a disturbance in the > force” on 9/11 might also have a far different slant > (for those who want to make that giant leap of > belief > and try to explain every tragedy in the broadest of > figurative terms) to wit: > 1) preempting a much larger tragedy (such Al Quaeda > getting hold of “the bomb” had it not been rendered > too weak to now do so by our inevitable retaliation) > or > 2) making the world at large a better place (a small > comparative sacrifice by the richest nation so that > 20 > million others could eventually emerge from tyranny > into freedom) or > 3) preparing this country for an expanded role of > leadership (in the sense of ‘that which doesn’t kill > you makes you stronger’) > > Many of us grew up with the pilgrim-influenced > teaching that nothing good comes without great > sacrifice, and although I am personally not ready to > equate recent World events with divine intervention, > I > would reluctantly accept the tradeoffs implicit in > 3) > above, especially if it somehow foreshadows a > large-scale emergence -one avenue of emergence being > a > “new age” realized through freeing ourselves and the > planet from an unholy dependence on fossil fuels, > accomplished by what can be called a permanent > "willed" alteration of “chance” … and lest we > forget, > like Gaia herself, we know that Aquarius, this > generations’ symbol of a new dawning, is a “water > bearer”… > > Jones > > ...on a lighter but more uncertain note.... > A policeman pulls Werner Heisenberg over on the > autobahn for speeding. > > Policeman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going > ?" > > Heisenberg: "No, young man, but I know exactly where > I > am." > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 10:10:49 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA17589; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:05:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:05:40 -0800 Message-ID: <00ed01c3c329$ff729280$469889d9@oemcji2jbc803c> From: "Mike" To: References: <6.0.1.1.2.20031215100409.00b13720@pop.mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Recent studies show the placebo effect does not exist Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 16:38:53 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Resent-Message-ID: <"Nh5953.0.lI4.pVVt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52651 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I once saw a documentary some 20 odd years ago investigating the placebo effect. One of the examples they featured was a group of patients in a hospital who had had wisdom teeth extracted - the hospital let the patients massage their swollen jaws with an ultra sonic massager which they found in most cases made the swelling go down quicker than patients that did not use the device. After a while they did wonder if this was a placebo effect - so they disconnected the supply to the wand. The effect seemed to continue whether the supply was connected or not. At the same time they also asked another group of patients to just massage their jaw with their hands - but that had no effect. They also pointed out that for some number of years last century a common operation that successfully relieved the symptoms of angina involved some kind of surgery to veins near the surface of the chest. A cardiologist that used to perform this operation had his doubts that a minor change in the blood supply that this operation was supposed to perform could have any effect on this particular malady. He investigated his hunch by performing mock operations on some of his patients - opening the area but not exactly re routing any veins. It had the same effect and most of the operations successfully appeared to relieve the pain. He published his findings and the operation was no longer performed. Yet another example that I recall was some kind of injection given to patients to relieve tooth pain during dentistry - some had real morphine pain killers and others had a placebo. Both groups reported that pain was less after the injection. What was intriguing is that both groups of patients were also injected with a morphine blocking device half way through the treatment and asked what effect the second injection had (they were obviously not told the nature of the second injection) on the amount of pain they were experiencing. Both groups reported it was higher. The indication was that the brain in the placebo group was somehow producing its own morphine - like compound. Mike Butcher From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 10:28:49 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA01188; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:24:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:24:39 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:24:23 -0600 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: thomas malloy Subject: Global warming on Mars Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1140609822==_ma============" X-DCC-CPI-Metrics: Clear 1161; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Resent-Message-ID: <"DXJGW.0.MI.cnVt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52652 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --============_-1140609822==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" SPACE.com, 8 December 2003 Scientists have suspected in recent years that Mars might be undergoing some sort of global warming. New data points to the possibility it is emerging from an ice age. NASA's Mars Odyssey orbiter has been surveying the planet for nearly a full Martian year now, and it has spotted seasonal changes like the advance and retreat of polar ice. It's also gathering data of a possible longer trend. There appears to be too much frozen water at low-latitude regions -- away from the frigid poles -- given the current climate of Mars. The situation is not in equilibrium, said William Feldman of the Los Alamos National Laboratory. Layered deposits covering older, cratered surfaces near Mars' south pole dominate this image taken last month. The margin of these layered deposits appears to be eroding poleward, exposing a series of layers in the retreating cliff. It is one piece of a puzzle scientists are putting together on an apparently changing Martian climate. --============_-1140609822==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Global warming on Mars

SPACE.com, 8 December 2003
Scientists have suspected in recent years that Mars might be undergoing some sort of global warming. New data points to the possibility it is emerging from an ice age.
NASA's Mars Odyssey orbiter has been surveying the planet for nearly a full Martian year now, and it has spotted seasonal changes like the advance and retreat of polar ice. It's also gathering data of a possible longer trend.
There appears to be too much frozen water at low-latitude regions -- away from the frigid poles -- given the current climate of Mars. The situation is not in equilibrium, said William Feldman of the Los Alamos National Laboratory.

Layered deposits covering older, cratered surfaces near Mars' south pole dominate this image taken last month. The margin of these layered deposits appears to be eroding poleward, exposing a series of layers in the retreating cliff. It is one piece of a puzzle scientists are putting together on an apparently changing Martian climate.
--============_-1140609822==_ma============-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 14:17:02 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id OAA05620; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:13:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:13:14 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031215164527.01cad170@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:06:01 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Randomness and expectation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"nmrg91.0.lN1.v7Zt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52653 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: alexander hollins writes: > since i was a snot nosed little kid, its always seemed > to me that attitude and intent of people affected what > they did. the power of belief, i refer to it as. > > yes, i think its more than possible. its plausible. I realize there has been serious research on this topic, and some evidence has been reported. However, that data is close to the noise. I do not think the mind can affect outward physical phenomena for two reasons: 1. An appeal to theory -- something I admit I often reject! There is no plausible physical mechanism that would allow the brain to affect objects or outcomes. The brain is the most complicated known object, but its physical activities are rather simple, well understood, and limited. It mainly does electrochemistry. Our electrochemical machines have no effect whatever on their surroundings. 2. Evolution. If humans or other animals had any ability to do this, I think evolution would have pushed that ability to extremes, because it would be very valuable. It is difficult to imagine that animal brains can have this effect, but only a tiny scale that contributes nothing to survival, defense or exploitation. Why would evolution come up with a tiny effect that can never be scaled up, and serves no practical purpose? If brains can do this at all, under any circumstances, it seems likely that some combination of brains and other organs in some animal can do it reliably on a larger scale. An animal that could do that would rule the world, instead of us. Evolution tends to push any attribute to extremes. Not only do we have living batteries (or capacitors, I guess you would call them), in the form of electric eels, they can build up such a large charge they can hurt human beings even though we are much larger than they are. Not only do we have living, flying sonar sets (bats), but they are far ahead of anything humans can devise -- both as sonars and flying machines. Their sonar can resolve objects with as much speed and precision as vision does in other animals. Not only do birds have some kind of magnetic compass, they can navigate across continents and unmarked oceans with greater precision than the best instruments man could devise until a few years ago, including multi-million-dollar radar sets and so on. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 14:38:49 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id OAA20018; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:34:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:34:37 -0800 Message-ID: <20031215223420.47767.qmail@web11706.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:34:20 -0800 (PST) From: alexander hollins Subject: Re: Randomness and expectation To: vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20031215164527.01cad170@pop.mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"EQf8m.0.iu4.yRZt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52654 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: not... affecting the environment! the human brain puts out 4 different forms of em radiation in different amounts and patterns based on activity. the mechanism of how the brain puts out said radiation is barely understood. how do we know that there is not some mechanism for the produciton of smaller waves and particles that can influence things around them? has anyone ever stuck a human head next to a bubble chamber? --- Jed Rothwell wrote: > alexander hollins writes: > > > since i was a snot nosed little kid, its always > seemed > > to me that attitude and intent of people affected > what > > they did. the power of belief, i refer to it as. > > > > yes, i think its more than possible. its > plausible. > > I realize there has been serious research on this > topic, and some evidence > has been reported. However, that data is close to > the noise. I do not think > the mind can affect outward physical phenomena for > two reasons: > > 1. An appeal to theory -- something I admit I often > reject! There is no > plausible physical mechanism that would allow the > brain to affect objects > or outcomes. The brain is the most complicated known > object, but its > physical activities are rather simple, well > understood, and limited. It > mainly does electrochemistry. Our electrochemical > machines have no effect > whatever on their surroundings. > > 2. Evolution. If humans or other animals had any > ability to do this, I > think evolution would have pushed that ability to > extremes, because it > would be very valuable. It is difficult to imagine > that animal brains can > have this effect, but only a tiny scale that > contributes nothing to > survival, defense or exploitation. Why would > evolution come up with a tiny > effect that can never be scaled up, and serves no > practical purpose? If > brains can do this at all, under any circumstances, > it seems likely that > some combination of brains and other organs in some > animal can do it > reliably on a larger scale. An animal that could do > that would rule the > world, instead of us. > > Evolution tends to push any attribute to extremes. > Not only do we have > living batteries (or capacitors, I guess you would > call them), in the form > of electric eels, they can build up such a large > charge they can hurt human > beings even though we are much larger than they are. > Not only do we have > living, flying sonar sets (bats), but they are far > ahead of anything humans > can devise -- both as sonars and flying machines. > Their sonar can resolve > objects with as much speed and precision as vision > does in other animals. > Not only do birds have some kind of magnetic > compass, they can navigate > across continents and unmarked oceans with greater > precision than the best > instruments man could devise until a few years ago, > including > multi-million-dollar radar sets and so on. > > - Jed > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 14:43:43 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id OAA23141; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:39:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:39:50 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Recent studies on placebo effect Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 18:02:59 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20031215164527.01cad170@pop.mindspring.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"xe9v6.0.Uf5.sWZt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52655 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hey Jed. I was going to approach this from a more "confrontational" angle but figured this might be more convincing. A simple experiment. Put out your right hand. Right now, as you're reading this. ... ... There, that's the experiment. Did it work? Is your hand out? Good, I just thought a thought, transmitted that thought to your through the internet, you understood it, and a physical action occurred in your body. I see no reason why the placebo effect shouldn't work. Some people can control their heart rate, and their body temperature. I have no doubt that with sufficient training, one can control one's immune system. The body is more than capable of repairing itself and fending off disease. You seem to feel this is some magic psychic power, but really the effect is as simple as the experiment above. I find it odd that you would be so reluctant to consider the wealth of positive evidence in this regard. K. PS: The aggressive approach? I insult you, and you get angry. Notice the increased blood pressure, acid feeling in the stomach, adrenaline surges??? All physical effects generated by a "psychic" interaction. Type A personalities often DIE from these effects, a pretty profound change brought about by not much more than hot air and tongue motions. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 14:51:43 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id OAA27303; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:47:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:47:04 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031215172508.01cce518@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:46:28 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Recent studies show the placebo effect does not exist Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"SA7MS2.0.Zg6.ddZt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52656 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mike writes: > I once saw a documentary some 20 odd years ago investigating the placebo > effect. One of the examples they featured was a group of patients in a > hospital who had had wisdom teeth extracted - the hospital let the patients > massage their swollen jaws with an ultra sonic massager which they found in > most cases made the swelling go down quicker than patients that did not use > the device. After a while they did wonder if this was a placebo effect - so > they disconnected the supply to the wand. The effect seemed to continue > whether the supply was connected or not. such examples are well-known. No one denies they exist. However, they are not meaningful for two reasons: 1. The level of pain a person reports varies tremendously. Two people who have both been hurt to about the same extent, and who are probably suffering about the same amount of physical pain (nerve stimulus) will often report very different levels of feeling. One will say it hurts terribly, and the other will say it hardly matters. As I said, John Kennedy used to shrug off the pain from a shot that his tough Navy veteran buddy found excruciating. He suffered from a very painful condition, Addison's disease, and the shot was the least of his daily discomforts. 2. Until now researchers have forgotten to do the most basic comparison: They should have compared the unpowered fake ultrasonic massager to a control group of patients who receive no aid from the doctor, no instructions, and who did nothing. Because most people will try to do something on their own to alleviate pain, such as rub the sore spot or take an aspirin, it would be very difficult to make this comparison. However, if you could do it, I think it is likely you would find the people who do nothing get better as often and as quickly as those who apply the fake massager. With most patients, wisdom teeth extraction is not all that traumatic anyway. My wife and two daughters had their wisdom teeth extracted, and they got better in no time, it seemed. None of them complained in the least, because we are Victorians and We Keep a Stiff Upper Lip. (I have known people who died in considerable pain without uttering a word of complaint.) One young man I know had all 4 wisdom teeth extracted in the morning and went dancing that evening. Yet the doctor told me that some patients act as if they are dying, crying and carrying on, even when there are no apparent complications. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 15 15:00:01 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id OAA00326; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:56:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:56:25 -0800 Message-ID: <002e01c3c35e$4d364410$1b9889d9@oemcji2jbc803c> From: "Mike" To: References: <6.0.1.1.2.20031215172508.01cce518@pop.mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Recent studies show the placebo effect does not exist Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:53:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Resent-Message-ID: <"yoFWa1.0.15.OmZt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52657 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Actually - from what I remember you could see the effect of the wisdom tooth extraction in the swelling of the patient's face - it wasn't just a subjective evaluation of pain felt. There was a clear reductoin in physical swelling. Mike so it was not ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jed Rothwell" To: Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 10:46 PM Subject: Re: Recent studies show the placebo effect does not exist > Mike writes: > > > I once saw a documentary some 20 odd years ago investigating the placebo > > effect. One of the examples they featured was a group of patients in a > > hospital who had had wisdom teeth extracted - the hospital let the patients > > massage their swollen jaws with an ultra sonic massager which they found in > > most cases made the swelling go down quicker than patients that did not use > > the device. After a while they did wonder if this was a placebo effect - so > > they disconnected the supply to the wand. The effect seemed to continue > > whether the supply was connected or not. > > such examples are well-known. No one denies they exist. However, they are > not meaningful for two reasons: > > 1. The level of pain a person reports varies tremendously. Two people who > have both been hurt to about the same extent, and who are probably > suffering about the same amount of physical pain (nerve stimulus) will > often report very different levels of feeling. One will say it hurts > terribly, and the other will say it hardly matters. As I said, John Kennedy > used to shrug off the pain from a shot that his tough Navy veteran buddy > found excruciating. He suffered from a very painful condition, Addison's > disease, and the shot was the least of his daily discomforts. > > 2. Until now researchers have forgotten to do the most basic comparison: > They should have compared the unpowered fake ultrasonic massager to a > control group of patients who receive no aid from the doctor, no > instructions, and who did nothing. Because most people will try to do > something on their own to alleviate pain, such as rub the sore spot or take > an aspirin, it would be very difficult to make this comparison. However, if > you could do it, I think it is likely you would find the people who do > nothing get better as often and as quickly as those who apply the fake > massager. > > With most patients, wisdom teeth extraction is not all that traumatic > anyway. My wife and two daughters had their wisdom teeth extracted, and > they got better in no time, it seemed. None of them complained in the > least, because we are Victorians and We Keep a Stiff Upper Lip. (I have > known people who died in considerable pain without uttering a word of > complaint.) One young man I know had all 4 wisdom teeth extracted in the > morning and went dancing that evening. Yet the doctor told me that some > patients act as if they are dying, crying and carrying on, even when there > are no apparent complications. > > - Jed > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 02:03:24 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id CAA23727; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 02:01:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 02:01:33 -0800 From: Michael Huffman To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Soldering Iron Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:08:58 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312161108.59068.knuke@sumosound.de> X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:b76291440de0a671bf17bfec730be47d Resent-Message-ID: <"ousj62.0.co5.zVjt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52658 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Ahoy! Just saw this in the Seattle paper, and was wondering how it worked. Any educated guesses from our material science experts? http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/152624_coldheat16.html Knuke From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 06:50:22 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id GAA17221; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 06:47:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 06:47:39 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031216093401.01cb0100@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:47:30 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: RE: Recent studies on placebo effect Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"1fE853.0.1D4.Bint_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52659 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have confused two separate claims here. The first, described by Keith Nagel, is plausible: > I see no reason why the placebo effect shouldn't work. > Some people can control their heart rate, and their > body temperature. I have no doubt that with sufficient > training, one can control one's immune system. . . . There have been many reports of control over other organs by the brain. This is plausible. The only reason I do not believe it exists is because I have not seen any valid statistics demonstrating it. Perhaps the NIH study is valid. It is difficult to see why people would have to be fooled by placebos to activate this kind of control. If a person can control swelling or pain just by thinking, it seems to me people would instinctively go ahead and do this without bothering with placebos. The second claim was made by alexander hollins. I do not think this one is plausible: > not... affecting the environment! > the human brain puts out 4 different forms of em > radiation in different amounts and patterns based on > activity. Lots of machines put out various different levels and wavelengths of EM radiation, but they never affect physical objects the way some experimenters claim the brain can do. > the mechanism of how the brain puts out > said radiation is barely understood. Perhaps that is true, but the mechanism is irrelevant. Once it is generated, EM is EM; it does not matter what causes it. > how do we know > that there is not some mechanism for the produciton of > smaller waves and particles that can influence things > around them? electromagnetic waves of all types have been examined, and they never produce the kinds of effects reported by researchers who claim the brain can affect experimental outcomes and physical phenomena outside the body. Furthermore, as I said, if this capability existed, it seems extremely likely to me that evolution would have exploited it. Hollins should address this argument. > has anyone ever stuck a human head next > to a bubble chamber? Yes. People working with bubble chambers and modern detectors stand in close proximity to them. Furthermore, if the radiation from the brain was powerful enough to affect the outcome of experiments and physical movement, this radiation would have to be immensely powerful and easy to detect. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 07:09:02 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id HAA29702; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:07:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:07:11 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031216100317.01cb6b78@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:07:02 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: RE: Recent studies on placebo effect CORRECTION Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"9DCCu1.0.2G7.U-nt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52660 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I confused the issue yet again. I wrote: > > I see no reason why the placebo effect shouldn't work. > > Some people can control their heart rate, and their > > body temperature. I have no doubt that with sufficient > > training, one can control one's immune system. . . . > > There have been many reports of control over other organs by the brain. > This is plausible. The only reason I do not believe it exists is because I > have not seen any valid statistics demonstrating it. Perhaps the NIH study > is valid. I should have said: "The only reason I do not believe *the placebo effect* exists is because . . ." There is loads of proof that some of these other "mind-control over organ" effects exists. Why shouldn't they? Other organs exert control over the brain, and they all interact with one another in complicated ways. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 09:59:52 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id JAA12676; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:57:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:57:36 -0800 Message-ID: <003e01c3c3fc$cf992140$8837fea9@cpq> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Cc: "Frederick Sparber" Subject: The LENR year in review? Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:48:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003B_01C3C3B9.C0E7F920" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Resent-Message-ID: <"01h_c1.0.s53.FUqt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52661 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C3C3B9.C0E7F920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I hope a few others will take the time in the coming days to look back = at the year 2003 in terms of the important trends/ideas in alternative = energy from their own perspective, especially any that are subject to = being overlooked if not brought out to the forefront of attention... = this exercise, if nothing else, may encourage others to replicate or = improve on the experiments, or at least benefit from the new results. = Some relatively simple experiments written up this past year could end = up being the most important in the recent history of LENR. Two presentations at ICCF-10 a few months ago could be among these. It = will take some time to try to integrate the new ideas into the body of = evidence for LENR already in place, but here are some thoughts based on = the two Kim presentations on the LENR-CANR site: http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/KimYEquantumman.pdf and the Li paper: Li et al paper in J. Phys. D: Appl. Phys. 36 (2003) 3095-3097 http://stacks.iop.org/0022-3727/36/3095 Kim looks at extremely low temperatures and high pressure and a = "Bose-Einstein Condensation Mechanism for Low Energy Nuclear Reaction in = Nanoscale Atomic Clusters" and the effects of pressure, ultrasound and = temperature on LENR reaction rates. It is truly an amazing paper in its = implications. He finds that the LENR reaction rate can apparently be = speeded up by ~16x at pressures of above 1000 atm but apparently only = half that much at both high pressure and low (LN) temps (extrapolating = for the chart on page 10). Unfortunately, he didn't try to fit any of = his experiments into the Li discovery of a 'magic' temperature, and both = Kim and Li were very conservative in extending their ideas to the limits = or practicality -which is not necessarily a restraint on these vortex = commentaries. According to Li, and possibly the earlier work of Les Case, there = appears to be a certain special temperature, a fairly narrow range in = fact, for certain unpowered D/Pd systems where a substantial exothermic = heat anomaly is seen, even in the absence of applied power. Li sees some = likelihood that the heat reaction could be self-sustaining. "When the = temperature approached 150=B0C the pressure in the reaction vessel = started increasing quickly although the pump was still working = continuously... These finding of Case/Li can possibly be integrated = into a Kim regime where very high pressure substitutes for some of the = heat-deficit needed to maintain the same level of entropy. Several topics: High pressure LENR (with or w/o ultrasound), = superconductivity, and the "supergraviton" can perhaps be merged in a = way that might demonstrate synergy in a proposed experiment that, if = successful, will actually point to a prototype heating device that = doesn't rely on either palladium or electrolysis - just an maintaining = an optimum pressure/temperature regime! one that could be sustained over = extended periods being controlled by a small onboard analog computer = (eventually), for the purpose of providing environmental space heating = at drastic cost savings over natural gas.=20 This logic is going to be a little hard to follow until the end, but as = for particulars, consider that the superconducting transition = temperature (Tc) in palladium hydride is 9.1 K but the pure metal is not = superconductive, and the deuteride has a 15% higher Tc than the hydride, = a fact may be indicative of the pressurizing effects of full loading on = the internal pressurization inside the matrix. Palladium is not the only = metal (or alloy) in the periodic table whose hydride is superconductive. = That may be important for a theoretical understanding of both = quasi-superconductivity and its future application to cold fusion = without the necessity of using palladium. There are theoretical reasons = (i.e. the supergraviton) to believe that several materials whose = hydrides are superconductive in the range of 10 K will show LENR = activity. Of course, at normal CF temperatures, superconductivity is long-gone, = but does a new type of *localized* high temperature SC remain, a = quasi-superconductivity effect only in and around the geometric scale of = the "nanoparticle" ? If so, an enhanced effect is possible in which high = pressure substitutes for some of the temperature differential, allowing = for both an increased reaction rate as well still providing an adequate = minimum temperature for the purposes of such applications as home = heating This is one of the extended implications of the Kim papers. = Also, one wonders about a "particle" with a multiple of mass (in AMU) of = 102, which is the putative mass of the so-called 'supergraviton', and = also the mass of an isotope of palladium Pd-102 - how that is related in = this mix of variables?=20 First, in an old paper: "Isotope effect in the superconducting palladium-hydrogen-deuterium = system" T Skoskiewicz, A W Szafranski, W Bujnowski and B Baranowski available from IOP: http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0022-3719/7/15/015 Abstract. The dependence of critical temperature on hydrogen (deuterium) = content in palladium hydride (deuteride) was measured on samples = hydrogenized under equilibrium conditions with H(D) at high pressure. = The superconductivity transitions can be observed for atomic ratios of = hydrogen (deuterium) to palladium H(D)/Pd above 0.83 (0.77). The = critical temperatures of deuteride are about 2.5K higher than those of = hydride (at the same atomic ratios). The highest critical temperatures = so far observed for the hydride and deuteride are 9.1K and 10.7K = respectively. Then contrast that with Harold Aspden's theories on the warm-SC to LENR = connection where he finds, "The first experimental evidence which was = seen to point to this particular quantum mass unit [102] came with the = discovery of several warm superconductor materials having the perovskite = molecular structure. The molecules individually or collectively as a = small group had mass which was an integer multiple of a common quantity, = the supergraviton mass, a mass derived theoretically according to this = author's theory of gravitation." Many of Aspden's older essays are = online, such as: http://www.energyscience.co.uk/essays/ese05ap1.htm and it will require some effort to see the connection that I am = referring to above. Well, as for the simpler explanation... as bizarre as it sounds, the = only thing out there that could explain the results of all of the above = and fit it into the amazing papers of Li and Kim, et al. on a = Bose-Einstein Condensation mechanism may be the ideas of Harold Aspden, = which many on vortex had possibly written-off years ago as being too = speculative to be applied to a real device. Now, since Kim shows a substantial increase in the rate of CF with = increasing pressure and to a lesser degree, decreasing temperatures and = since we suspect from the Li paper that there is a special temperature = that favors cold fusion at ~150 degrees C, then we are left with the = question of what will be the corresponding temperature that we need to = maintain when an pressure of 1000 atm is applied in order to keep the = entropy level approx. the same as the Li parameters but at the same time = increase the reaction rate substantially to guarantee a self-sustaining = heat output. During a thermodynamic process, the temperature of an object changes as = heat and pressure is applied or extracted. A more correct definition of = the entropy is the differential form that accounts for this variation: = dS =3D dQ / T. The change in entropy is then the inverse of the = temperature integrated over the change in heat transfer, and although I = haven't found the definitive answer yet that integrates pressure into = the mix, it appears that (thanks to Fred Sparber) at a pressure of 1000 = atm, the effective Li magic number only drops to about 140 C, which is = *fortunately* a level of significant economic importance for such = applications as home heating. The Kim papers, without this other = insight, seem to favor going into cryogenic regimes that are not = economically viable. The corresponding experiment to test this idea is obvious, once one = becomes immersed in the papers mentioned above, and I hope to present it = in detail for any interested experimenter soon, in another posting. A = small hyperbaric pressure chamber capable of confining D2 at this regime = is both feasible and may even be commercially available. But the best = part is that this is basically an *unpowered* experiment (though it will = likely benefit from ultrasound), and once started it is only a matter of = determining if it is self-sustaining... and for how long. More later, Jones ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C3C3B9.C0E7F920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I hope a few others will take the time in the coming days to look = back at=20 the year 2003 in terms of the important trends/ideas in alternative = energy=20 from their own perspective, especially any that are subject to = being=20 overlooked if not brought out to the forefront of attention... this = exercise, if=20 nothing else, may encourage others to replicate or improve on the=20 experiments, or at least benefit from the new results. Some = relatively=20 simple experiments written up this past year could end up being the most = important in the recent history of LENR.
 
Two presentations at ICCF-10 a few months ago could be among these. = It will=20 take some time to try to integrate the new ideas into the body of = evidence for=20 LENR already in place, but here are some thoughts based on the two Kim=20 presentations on the LENR-CANR site:
http://www.= lenr-canr.org/acrobat/KimYEquantumman.pdf
and the Li paper:
Li et al paper in J. Phys. D: Appl. Phys. 36 (2003) 3095-3097
http://stacks.iop.org/00= 22-3727/36/3095

Kim=20 looks at extremely low temperatures and high pressure and a = "Bose-Einstein=20 Condensation Mechanism for Low Energy Nuclear Reaction in Nanoscale = Atomic=20 Clusters" and the effects of pressure, ultrasound and temperature on = LENR=20 reaction rates. It is truly an amazing paper in its implications. He = finds that=20 the LENR reaction rate can apparently be speeded up by ~16x at = pressures of=20 above 1000 atm but apparently only half that much at both high pressure = and low=20 (LN) temps (extrapolating for the chart on page 10). Unfortunately, he = didn't=20 try to fit any of his experiments into the Li discovery of a 'magic'=20 temperature, and both Kim and Li were very conservative in extending = their ideas=20 to the limits or practicality -which is not necessarily a restraint on = these=20 vortex commentaries.
 
According to Li, and possibly the earlier work of Les Case, there = appears=20 to be a certain special temperature, a fairly narrow range in = fact, for=20 certain unpowered D/Pd systems where a substantial exothermic heat = anomaly is=20 seen, even in the absence of applied power. Li sees some likelihood=20 that the heat reaction could be self-sustaining. "When the = temperature=20 approached 150=B0C the pressure in the reaction vessel started = increasing quickly=20 although the pump was still working continuously...  These finding = of=20 Case/Li can possibly be integrated into a Kim regime where very high = pressure=20 substitutes for some of the heat-deficit needed to maintain the = same level=20 of entropy.

Several topics: High pressure LENR (with or w/o = ultrasound), superconductivity, and the "supergraviton" can perhaps be = merged in=20 a way that might demonstrate synergy in a proposed experiment that, = if=20 successful, will actually point to a prototype heating device that = doesn't=20 rely on either palladium or electrolysis - just an maintaining an = optimum=20 pressure/temperature regime! one that could be sustained over = extended=20 periods being controlled by a small onboard analog computer = (eventually), for=20 the purpose of providing environmental space heating at drastic cost = savings=20 over natural gas.
 
This logic is going to be a little hard to follow until the end, = but as for=20 particulars, consider that the superconducting transition = temperature (Tc)=20 in palladium hydride is 9.1 K but the pure metal is not superconductive, = and the=20 deuteride has a 15% higher Tc than the hydride, a fact may be = indicative of=20 the pressurizing effects of full loading on the internal pressurization = inside=20 the matrix. Palladium is not the only metal (or alloy) in the = periodic=20 table whose hydride is superconductive. That may be important for a = theoretical=20 understanding of both quasi-superconductivity and its future application = to cold=20 fusion without the necessity of using palladium. There are theoretical = reasons=20 (i.e. the supergraviton) to believe that several materials whose = hydrides are=20 superconductive in the range of 10 K will show LENR activity.
 
Of course, at normal CF temperatures, superconductivity is = long-gone, but=20 does a new type of *localized* high temperature SC remain, a=20 quasi-superconductivity effect only in and around the geometric = scale of=20 the "nanoparticle" ? If so, an enhanced effect is possible in which = high=20 pressure substitutes for some of the temperature differential, = allowing for=20 both an increased reaction rate as well still providing an adequate = minimum=20 temperature for the purposes of such applications as home heating This = is one of=20 the extended implications of the Kim papers. Also, one = wonders about=20 a "particle" with a multiple of mass (in AMU) of 102, which is the = putative=20 mass of the so-called  'supergraviton', and also the mass of an = isotope of=20 palladium Pd-102 - how that is related in this mix of variables?
 
First, in an old paper:
"Isotope effect in the superconducting palladium-hydrogen-deuterium = system"
T Skoskiewicz, A W Szafranski, W Bujnowski and B = Baranowski
available from IOP:
http://www.iop= .org/EJ/abstract/0022-3719/7/15/015
 
Abstract. The dependence of critical temperature on hydrogen = (deuterium)=20 content in palladium hydride (deuteride) was measured on samples = hydrogenized=20 under equilibrium conditions with H(D) at high pressure. The = superconductivity=20 transitions can be observed for atomic ratios of hydrogen (deuterium) to = palladium H(D)/Pd above 0.83 (0.77). The critical temperatures of = deuteride are=20 about 2.5K higher than those of hydride (at the same atomic ratios). The = highest=20 critical temperatures so far observed for the hydride and deuteride are = 9.1K and=20 10.7K respectively.
 
Then contrast that with Harold Aspden's theories on the = warm-SC=20 to LENR connection where he finds, "The first experimental = evidence=20 which was seen to point to this particular quantum mass unit [102] came = with the=20 discovery of several warm superconductor materials having the perovskite = molecular structure. The molecules individually or collectively as a = small group=20 had mass which was an integer multiple of a common quantity, the = supergraviton=20 mass, a mass derived theoretically according to this author's theory of=20 gravitation." Many of Aspden's older essays are online, such as:
http://www.en= ergyscience.co.uk/essays/ese05ap1.htm
and it will require some effort to see the connection that I am = referring=20 to above.
 
Well, as for the simpler explanation...  as bizarre as it = sounds, the=20 only thing out there that could explain the results of all of the = above and=20 fit it into the amazing papers of Li and Kim, et al. on a=20 Bose-Einstein Condensation mechanism may be the ideas of Harold Aspden, = which=20 many on vortex had possibly written-off years ago as being too = speculative to be=20 applied to a real device.
 
Now, since Kim shows a substantial increase in the rate of CF = with=20 increasing pressure and to a lesser degree, decreasing temperatures and = since we=20 suspect from the Li paper that there is a special temperature that = favors cold=20 fusion at ~150 degrees C, then we are left with the question of = what will=20 be the corresponding temperature that we need to maintain when an = pressure of=20 1000 atm is applied in order to keep the entropy level approx. the same = as the=20 Li parameters but at the same time increase the reaction rate = substantially to=20 guarantee a self-sustaining heat output.
 
During a thermodynamic process, the temperature of an object = changes as=20 heat and pressure is applied or extracted. A more correct definition of = the=20 entropy is the differential form that accounts for this variation: dS = =3D dQ / T.=20 The change in entropy is then the inverse of the temperature integrated = over the=20 change in heat transfer, and although I haven't found the definitive = answer yet=20 that integrates pressure into the mix, it appears that (thanks to Fred = Sparber)=20 at a pressure of 1000 atm, the effective Li magic number only drops to = about 140=20 C, which is *fortunately* a level of significant economic importance for = such=20 applications as home heating. The Kim papers, without this other = insight, seem=20 to favor going into cryogenic regimes that are not economically = viable.
 
The corresponding experiment to test this idea is obvious, once one = becomes=20 immersed in the papers mentioned above, and I hope to present it in = detail for=20 any interested experimenter soon, in another posting. A small hyperbaric = pressure chamber capable of confining D2 at this regime is both feasible = and may=20 even be commercially available. But the best part is that this is = basically an=20 *unpowered* experiment (though it will likely benefit from ultrasound), = and once=20 started it is only a matter of determining if it is self-sustaining... = and for=20 how long.
 
More later,
 
Jones
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C3C3B9.C0E7F920-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 10:04:42 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA17100; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:01:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:01:59 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Soldering Iron Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:25:40 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <200312161108.59068.knuke@sumosound.de> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"bhYdm3.0.4B4.NYqt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52662 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Arrggg, yea scurvy dawgs... I'll take a wild guess and say it's a conductive ceramic. Something without a lot of thermal mass to hold the heat in. It sounds like a good idea for field techs, not sure how the home shopping crowd will take to it though. I think he'll have much greater luck with the cloths iron. I can see LOTS of people buying that. This quote was rather telling. "People are not soldering the toaster anymore. They are throwing them out and buying a new one," he said. "Soldering jobs are declining in number, there are fewer and fewer things that need to be soldered." He estimates the consumer market to be about $15 million per year. Along similar lines, have you been to a Radio Shack recently? Boy have they changed. The ones around here don't even have wall displays of electronic components anymore. I remember actually buying surplus stuff from them as a kid ( separate from the surplus stuff they horribly rebranded with the dreaded Tandy label (grin)). On the other hand, the internet and Ebay have made the whole surplus electronics thing as easy as shopping for groceries. I do miss having a friend grab my legs as I dive head first into a huge pile of weird surplus stuff, but those long road trips to nowhere just to buy some squirrelly capacitors are NOT missed. K. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Huffman [mailto:knuke@sumosound.de] Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 5:09 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Soldering Iron Ahoy! Just saw this in the Seattle paper, and was wondering how it worked. Any educated guesses from our material science experts? http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/152624_coldheat16.html Knuke From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 10:30:37 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA01166; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:27:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:27:34 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Recent studies on placebo effect Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:51:15 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20031216093401.01cb0100@pop.mindspring.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"2Z0D81.0.8I.Lwqt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52663 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jed writes: >It is difficult to see why people would have to be fooled by placebos to >activate this kind of control. If a person can control swelling or pain >just by thinking, it seems to me people would instinctively go ahead and do >this without bothering with placebos. Do you consciously start your heart in the morning when you wake up? Can you consiously start it up after you've had a heart attack? Clearly you'd be pretty motivated to try. Yet, it is beyond doubt that with training people can control their heart rate. What needs to be done is to move a physical action from being controlled by the unconscious to being controlled by the conscious mind, to get the effect you're looking for. The two work in very different fashions, and a simple answer to your question is "Yes, the unconsious must be 'fooled' into working, at least while the thing to be controlled is still under it's sway". The unconscious does not work with reason, as any observation of your dream life will tell you. You know, I can think of a much better example of a mercurial organ whose actions are immediately obvious on inspection yet entirely beyond conscious control, much to the chagrin of the male sex. But now this is sounding like a spam and altogether too offtopic (grin). K. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 11:06:20 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id LAA26205; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:02:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:02:31 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031216135621.01cb1e98@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:02:26 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: RE: Recent studies on placebo effect Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"pBtjg2.0.MP6.7Rrt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52664 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Keith Nagel writes: > The two work in very different fashions, and a simple > answer to your question is "Yes, the unconsious must be > 'fooled' into working, at least while > the thing to be controlled is still under it's sway". > The unconscious does not work with reason, as any observation of > your dream life will tell you. That would be odd. As you mentioned previously, there are reports that "some people can control their heart rate, and their body temperature." They can do this without fooling their unconscious. In the 1960s, bio-feedback machines were popularized because they supposedly made this kind of control more conscious, and more deliberate. Why should control of pathology or illness require that we fool the mind, while control over normal body functions work better when we do not fool the mind? In any case, my main objection to these reported phenomena are is based on statistics. Plus, I know that people have been trying to "blame the victim" since ancient times, and this looks to me like yet another variation on that theme. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 11:54:35 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id LAA28123; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:50:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:50:01 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Recent studies on placebo effect Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:13:43 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20031216135621.01cb1e98@pop.mindspring.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"Zo_xU2.0.Ft6.e7st_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52665 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jed. You write: >That would be odd. As you mentioned previously, there are reports that >"some people can control their heart rate, and their body temperature." >They can do this without fooling their unconscious. In the 1960s, >bio-feedback machines were popularized because they supposedly made this >kind of control more conscious, and more deliberate. Why should control of >pathology or illness require that we fool the mind, while control over >normal body functions work better when we do not fool the mind? Because only a small percentage of patients would ever be willing to take the time to train themselves. It is possible however to do a complete end run around the problem by addressing the unconscious mind directly. This has traditionally been the realm of the shaman, now slowly moving towards a science of psychology as we come to rationally understand more and more of the unconscious mind. Major schools of psychology have grown up around these ideas, with practical application in advertising, politics and organized religion. And medicine. It's interesting that the two great contributions that old cocaine addicted windbag Freud made to western science were observations of the operation of the unconscious. The first was regarding sex, and has now finally been widely accepted by the masses. The second was something he called the thanatos, or death wish, just as real but still denied by most today. Of course, the very fact that the mind had an unconscious was arguably his greatest contribution, containing both notions I mentioned. Clearly you're still uncomfortable with this idea. But maybe I'm putting words in your mouth here... do you think there is an unconscious??? K. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 12:10:57 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id MAA06269; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:05:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:05:46 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031216150129.01c2bec0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:05:37 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Please test LENR-CANR mail link Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"HcWSX1.0.uX1.QMst_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52666 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On the bottom of the first screen at LENR-CANR.org, there is a hyperlink in the text: "Click here to send comments and suggestions to the editors" This goes to: http://lenr-canr.org/Contact.htm When I click on it, and try to sent a message, I get the following error message: "Sorry, this CGI is only available to sites hosted with EarthLink, Inc." Others who have tried it today say they had no problem. I had a long discussion with the tech support people at Earthlink, which ended with them saying "the problem is not on our side." They think it is in my computer, but nothing has changed in my computer, and this used to work fine. I would appreciate it if 5 or 6 people in this forum would try. You do not need to fill in any of the fields. Just try sending a message. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 12:25:15 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id MAA17678; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:21:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:21:48 -0800 Message-ID: <3FDF695F.9030307@rtpatlanta.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:21:51 -0500 From: "Terry Blanton" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Please test LENR-CANR mail link References: <6.0.1.1.2.20031216150129.01c2bec0@pop.mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20031216150129.01c2bec0@pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4Gr5i3.0.AK4.Sbst_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52667 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > I would appreciate it if 5 or 6 people in this forum would try. Thank you for your message to the editors. If you pressed the enter key in error or you wish to make changes, simply press the browser Back arrow, change the form, and send it again. If you have finished with your message, click here to return to the LENR-CANR home page . Worked for me. Terry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 13:23:11 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id NAA23708; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:18:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:18:26 -0800 Message-ID: <3FDF7714.221B456E@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:20:21 -0800 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD472 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Please test LENR-CANR mail link References: <6.0.1.1.2.20031216150129.01c2bec0@pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YLF_13.0.Ho5.YQtt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52668 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dec. 16, 2003 Just sent test message and it worked just fine. -ak- Jed Rothwell wrote: > On the bottom of the first screen at LENR-CANR.org, there is a hyperlink in > the text: > > "Click here to send comments and suggestions to the editors" > > This goes to: > > http://lenr-canr.org/Contact.htm > > When I click on it, and try to sent a message, I get the following error > message: > > "Sorry, this CGI is only available to sites hosted with EarthLink, Inc." > > Others who have tried it today say they had no problem. I had a long > discussion with the tech support people at Earthlink, which ended with them > saying "the problem is not on our side." They think it is in my computer, > but nothing has changed in my computer, and this used to work fine. I would > appreciate it if 5 or 6 people in this forum would try. You do not need to > fill in any of the fields. Just try sending a message. > > - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 13:28:47 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id NAA31451; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:26:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:26:38 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031216162345.01cb5a60@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:26:32 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Please test LENR-CANR mail link Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"5zPYj3.0.Mh7.EYtt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52669 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Okay, 7 or 8 people have tried this, and no failures are reported. My problem must have something to do with the fact that the web page files are stored on this computer. It must be trying to execute the CGI here. By the way, I uploaded the new Reifenschweiler paper here: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Reifenschwcoldfusion.pdf - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 14:17:06 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id OAA30063; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:13:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:13:48 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:16:11 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Please test LENR-CANR mail link Resent-Message-ID: <"2_dkb3.0.hL7.SEut_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52670 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 3:05 PM 12/16/3, Jed Rothwell wrote: >Just try sending a message. > >- Jed No problem from linux. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 18:12:00 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id SAA10243; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:10:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:10:43 -0800 Message-ID: <3FDFB0E6.3010906@eol.ca> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 20:27:03 -0500 From: Dave User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; N; PPC; en-US; m18) Gecko/20010131 Netscape6/6.01 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l Subject: New evidence of a Life Energy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"F_qFj1.0._V2.Yixt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52671 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To vortex-l Recent experimental evidence suggests livings things, such as plants, possess a measurable "life" energy. The energy was observed to decrease over time as death sets in. A preliminary report outlining the phenomena is available at www.heliognosis.com . The site also provides more information about the Heliognosis LM2 Experimental Life Energy Meter that was used in the procedure. Further experiments will be gradually posted at Heliognosis, along with new developments regarding the LM2 meter and other devices we're designing. Dest regards, Dave Marett From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 19:08:02 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id TAA18512; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:04:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:04:10 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: New evidence of a Life Energy Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:27:50 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3FDFB0E6.3010906@eol.ca> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"ZWKLK1.0.yW4.fUyt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52672 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Dave. I looked at the website just now. The site looked nice, but was lacking in technical details. Can you provide more detail on the meter circuit? As I understand it from the site, the driver is a low frequency oscillator capacitively coupled to the environment. Is the receiver capacitive? Do you use a modulation scheme? etc etc... The scale on the meter is undetermined. Does an increase in reading indicate more or less absorption of the LF signal? Shouldn't the units for this scale be something like dB??? K. -----Original Message----- From: Dave [mailto:vortex@eol.ca] Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 8:27 PM To: vortex-l Subject: New evidence of a Life Energy To vortex-l Recent experimental evidence suggests livings things, such as plants, possess a measurable "life" energy. The energy was observed to decrease over time as death sets in. A preliminary report outlining the phenomena is available at www.heliognosis.com . The site also provides more information about the Heliognosis LM2 Experimental Life Energy Meter that was used in the procedure. Further experiments will be gradually posted at Heliognosis, along with new developments regarding the LM2 meter and other devices we're designing. Dest regards, Dave Marett From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 20:22:51 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id UAA06483; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 20:19:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 20:19:50 -0800 Message-ID: <3FDFDB63.1000304@eol.ca> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:28:19 -0500 From: Dave User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; N; PPC; en-US; m18) Gecko/20010131 Netscape6/6.01 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: New evidence of a Life Energy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000002040608070005010606" Resent-Message-ID: <"x6vWA.0.Fb1.bbzt_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52673 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --------------000002040608070005010606 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Keith, You asked for more detail about the experimental circuit for the Life Energy Meter. "As I understand it from the site, the driver is a low frequency oscillator capacitively coupled to the environment. Is the receiver capacitive? Do you use a modulation scheme? etc etc..." The Meter uses the same principal as the Orgone Field Meter that Wilhelm Reich describes in The Cancer Biopathy pg 147. A metal plate is connected to one side of a high voltage oscillator (about 200V p.p) with a frequency of about 50KHz through a current sensor. The "receiver" and "transmitter" are directly coupled without series capacitance. The electric field which fills space around the plate is affected by the presence of all things (including the vacuum), a well known effect, electric permitivity. Reich's discovery was that living things increase further the absorption of the electric field. "The scale on the meter is undetermined. Does an increase in reading indicate more or less absorption of the LF signal? Shouldn't the units for this scale be something like dB???" Their are no units as of yet for this phenomena. Indeed,a higher reading indicates a higher absorption of the excitation field. The meter scale however is linear and the ranges are decades from 1 to 10k. To give you an idea of the full scale reading, a 160lb person, grasping the tube electrode will yield a reading between 50 and 80% on the x1 range (no amplification). The meter is intended to be used with various reference samples and comparisons are then made. In the case of the leaf experiment, its absorption is much less than a human and amplification of 10x was used. Dave Marett --------------000002040608070005010606 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
Hi Keith,

You asked for more detail about the experimental circuit for the Life Energy Meter.

"As I understand it from the site, the driver
is a low frequency oscillator capacitively coupled
to the environment. Is the receiver capacitive?
Do you use a modulation scheme? etc etc..."


 The Meter uses the same principal as the Orgone Field Meter that Wilhelm Reich describes in The Cancer Biopathy pg 147. A metal plate is connected to one side of a high voltage oscillator (about 200V p.p) with a frequency of about 50KHz through a current sensor. The "receiver" and "transmitter" are directly coupled without series capacitance. The electric field which fills space around the plate is affected by the presence of all things (including the vacuum), a well known effect, electric permitivity. Reich's discovery was that living things increase further the absorption of the electric field. 


 
"The scale on the meter is undetermined. Does
an increase in reading indicate more or less
absorption of the LF signal? Shouldn't the units
for this scale be something like dB???"

  Their are no units as of yet for this phenomena. Indeed,a higher reading indicates a higher absorption of the excitation field. The meter scale however is linear and the ranges are decades from 1 to 10k. To give you an idea of the full scale reading, a 160lb person, grasping the tube electrode will yield a reading between 50 and 80% on the x1 range (no amplification). The meter is intended to be used with various reference samples and comparisons are then made. In the case of the leaf experiment, its absorption is much less than a human and amplification of 10x was used.

Dave Marett


--------------000002040608070005010606-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 16 21:28:27 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id VAA16005; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:27:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:27:43 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: New evidence of a Life Energy Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 00:51:26 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3FDFDB63.1000304@eol.ca> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"zpNYu3.0.wv3.Fb-t_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52674 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Dave. So the case ground is the opposite plate, and you're measuring the current flow between the two @ 50KHz??? Voltage being ~200V??? By capacitive coupling I meant to the space and not to the plate(s). If the scale is measuring current, how do you handle phase angle? Or do you just ignore the resistive component. K. -----Original Message----- From: Dave [mailto:vortex@eol.ca] Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 11:28 PM To: vortex-l Subject: Re: New evidence of a Life Energy Hi Keith,You asked for more detail about the experimental circuit for the Life Energy Meter."As I understand it from the site, the driveris a low frequency oscillator capacitively coupledto the environment. Is the receiver capacitive?Do you use a modulation scheme? etc etc..." The Meter uses the same principal as the Orgone Field Meter that Wilhelm Reich describes in The Cancer Biopathy pg 147. A metal plate is connected to one side of a high voltage oscillator (about 200V p.p) with a frequency of about 50KHz through a current sensor. The "receiver" and "transmitter" are directly coupled without series capacitance. The electric field which fills space around the plate is affected by the presence of all things (including the vacuum), a well known effect, electric permitivity. Reich's discovery was that living things increase further the absorption of the electric field. "The scale on the meter is undetermined. Doesan increase in reading indicate more or lessabsorption of the LF signal? Shouldn't the unitsfor this scale be something like dB???" Their are no units as of yet for this phenomena. Indeed,a higher reading indicates a higher absorption of the excitation field. The meter scale however is linear and the ranges are decades from 1 to 10k. To give you an idea of the full scale reading, a 160lb person, grasping the tube electrode will yield a reading between 50 and 80% on the x1 range (no amplification). The meter is intended to be used with various reference samples and comparisons are then made. In the case of the leaf experiment, its absorption is much less than a human and amplification of 10x was used.Dave Marett From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 08:33:07 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA20097; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:27:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:27:26 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031217111930.01cb22c8@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:26:08 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Mouillard describes the feeling of obsession we know so well Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"Ar2UP3.0.zv4.kF8u_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52675 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Congratulations everyone on the 100th anniversary of flight! The re-creation flight has been postponed until 2:00 p.m. In honor of the anniversary, I have been exploring on-line resources. Here is a haunting essay by Wilbur Wright about an obscure writer named Mouillard. Both Mouillard and Wright knew well what it felt like to live for years obsessed with the likelihood that some wonderful new machine may be possible. See: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~stwright/WrBr/Aero_Club.html WHAT MOUILLARD DID By Wilbur Wright From Aero Club of America Bulletin, April, 1912, 3-4 THE erection at Cario, Egypt, of a monument to L. P. Mouillard recalls attention to one of the greatest missionaries of the flying cause which the 19th century produced. Mouilard was a Frenchman who passed a large part of his life in Algeria and Egypt, where his attention was attracted by the wonderful soaring of vultures on fixed wings. His imagination was greatly excited by what he saw, and during the remainder of his life he was like a prophet crying in the wilderness, exhorting the world to repent of its unbelief in the possibility of human flight. In 1881 he published a book called "The Empire of the Air," which is one of the most remarkable pieces of aeronautical literature that has ever been published. In his introduction he says: "If there be a domineering, tyrant thought it is the conception that the problem of flight may be solved by man. When once this idea has invaded the brain it possesses it exclusively. It is then a haunting thought, a walking nightmare, impossible to cast off. If now we consider the pitying contempt with which such a line of research is appreciated, we may somewhat conceive the unhappy lot of the poor investigator whose soul is thus possessed." . . . His observations upon the habits of vultures led him to the conclusion that flight without motors was possible to man. and this idea he presented to his renders with an enthusiasm so inspiring and convincing that his book produced results of the greatest importance in the history of flight. The man was himself almost fanatical in his enthusiasm. Speaking of his first sight of a vulture in full soaring flight, he says: "All my life shall I remember the first flight which I saw of the Gyps fulvus, the great tawny vultures of Africa. I was so impressed that all day long I could think of nothing else; and indeed there was good cause, for it was a practical, perfect demonstration of all my preconceived theories concerning the possibilities of artificial flight in a wind. Since then I have observed thousands of vultures. I have disturbed many of the vast flocks of these birds, and yet, even now, I cannot see one individual passing through the air without following him with my eves until he disappears in the distant horizon. . . ." - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 10:12:53 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA29148; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:08:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:08:40 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [64.70.24.58] X-Originating-Email: [mgoldes@msn.com] X-Sender: mgoldes@msn.com From: "Mark Goldes" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: An edited version of Muillard's wonderful quotation -- lifted from Jed's post Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:07:58 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Dec 2003 18:07:58.0447 (UTC) FILETIME=[B3BC47F0:01C3C4C8] Resent-Message-ID: <"nrr5p1.0.q67.ck9u_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52676 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "If there be a domineering, (marvelous) thought it is the conception that the problem of (revolutionary new energy technology) may be solved by man. When once this idea has invaded the brain it possesses it exclusively. It is then a haunting thought, a walking (daydream), impossible to cast off. If now we consider the pitying contempt with which such a line of research is appreciated, we may somewhat conceive the unhappy lot of the poor investigator whose soul is thus possessed." _________________________________________________________________ Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work — and yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 10:35:28 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA12835; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:30:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:30:59 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: "Vortex" Subject: Proof that manned flight is impossible! Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:54:41 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"DJU2x1.0.V83.Y3Au_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52677 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Clearly, there has been a lot of controversy surrounding this newfangled notion of flight that certain uneducated laypeople have been promoting. In the interest of fairness and accuracy, the academy has deigned to devote some it's subtantial brainpower and resources to attempt to replicate this "flight" claimed by the Wright Brothers. Here are the results. http://apnews.myway.com/article/20031217/D7VG98P81.html Clearly the Wright Bros. are mistaken in their beliefs, they are deluded at best and possibly frauds? Certainly the government should not put valuable taxpayer dollars into such a pipedream as this.... K. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 15:08:49 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id PAA29861; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:05:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:05:48 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031217175850.01cb22c8@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 18:05:46 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Interview with Raymond Damadian Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"__JWy.0.RI7.B5Eu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52678 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: See: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/14/magazine/14QUESTIONS.html Some quotes: Interview by WILLIAM SPEED WEED Q. In 1977, you made the first human body scan with magnetic resonance imaging, and the Supreme Court considers you its patent holder. Yet this year's Nobel Prize in Medicine went to Paul Lauterbur and Peter Mansfield for their discoveries in M.R.I. You've run ads in newspapers, demanding this wrong be corrected. Why? A. Initially, I was overwhelmed. It was just beyond my comprehension that having started it all I got left out. The Nobel committee says they do not discuss any of their findings for 50 years so they don't have to answer for their crimes until 50 years after everybody's dead. If they're going to rewrite history and they're not going to be accountable to anyone, at the bare minimum, we should try to make them accountable to world opinion. Q. What do you think it means to be the author of an idea? A. It depends on its potency, but I can tell you that the pain and torment scales directly with the magnitude of the idea. . . . Q. It's a cliche to say creative people are brilliant but unhinged. A. It's an issue of cause and effect. It's hard to understand what a person's going through unless you've been in the center of it. People call you mad -- it's tough stuff to go through. Q. Have people called you mad? A. Crazy, they called me. I made presentations on this incongruous idea that you could stuff a human being into the magnet. Sure enough, some acerbic chemist would raise his hand and say, ''How fast do you propose to spin the patient?'' Because it was standard practice to spin the sample. These are the forms of ridicule I had to overcome. . . . Q. If you know you're right about inventing the M.R.I., why care about the Nobel? A. I don't care about the Nobel. Q. You've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on full-page ads, lamenting not winning it. A. I don't want to mislead anybody and lead them to believe that I didn't aspire to it, because I did. But I feel different now. Having been through what I've been through, I don't want it. I am concerned about the Nobel effect of being written out of history. . . . Q. What will mark success for you with the ad campaign? A. I don't really know. It's just a matter of having people know that something is rotten in Stockholm. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 16:18:15 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id QAA21010; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 16:16:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 16:16:30 -0800 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 19:01:08 -0500 From: Norman Horwood <100060.173@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Please test LENR-CANR mail link Sender: Norman Horwood <100060.173@compuserve.com> To: "vortex-l@eskimo.com" Message-ID: <200312171901_MC3-1-60EA-664F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA20964 Resent-Message-ID: <"9RpIH1.0.D85.T7Fu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52679 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Jed, No problem with the LENR-CANR messaging link Norman From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 17 19:41:38 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id TAA20063; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 19:39:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 19:39:31 -0800 Message-ID: <3FE1236B.1040301@eol.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:47:55 -0500 From: Dave User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; N; PPC; en-US; m18) Gecko/20010131 Netscape6/6.01 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: New evidence of a life energy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rXV_11.0.Lv4.p5Iu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52680 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Keith, The Experimental Life Energy Meter does require, as a minimum, an inductive connection to ground. This is provided by the AC adapter, or alternatively, the negative side of the recorder output jack can be attached to any convenient earth. Without this the readings are considerably weaker and erratic. A large plate or battery connected to the DC input jack would also be sufficient and no earth connection would then be required. The current flow which is the basis for the readings is however that current which fills the space around the plate and includes the ground if it is close enough. The current however is small, in the microamp range, and thus no physical sensation is felt even if the bare plate is touched. This is in contrast to Reich's original invention which shocked the user if the plate was touched directly. The current sensor was the result of several years of development and the details of its operation are still under wraps. It has been optimized to work at the frequency of operation and has two ranges which may be selected on the rear of the device. One range is for small electrodes and one for large plates. I hope this helps you understand the principle more clearly. Best regards, Dave Marett www.heliognosis.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 08:09:40 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA05572; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:06:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:06:08 -0800 Message-ID: <001a01c3c57f$91369de0$8837fea9@cpq> From: "Jones Beene" To: Subject: Sharing Damadian's sorrow Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:56:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C3C53C.82A580E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Resent-Message-ID: <"j-a8g1.0.yM1.l1Tu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52681 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C3C53C.82A580E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable More from the "righting past wrongs" department.... http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/pearse1.html ...or should that read, "re-Wrighting recent history".... ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C3C53C.82A580E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
More from the "righting past wrongs" department....
 
http://www.c= tie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/pearse1.html
 
...or should that read, "re-Wrighting recent=20 history"....
------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C3C53C.82A580E0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 09:07:37 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id JAA14583; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:03:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:03:48 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031218113518.01cb2328@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:58:49 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Sharing Damadian's sorrow Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"b_Bpg1.0.kZ3.qtTu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52682 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jones Beene wrote: "More from the "righting past wrongs" department.... http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/pearse1.html ...or should that read, "re-Wrighting recent history"...." This powered flight by Richard Pearse does not count as the first controlled airplane flight. Or if you do count this as a flight, then Pearse was not the first. There were several earlier, similar "uncontrolled hops," such as Augustus Herring, October 1898. I would also count Adler, 1897, and Hiram Maxim, 1894, even though the latter was somewhat accidental. (It was meant to be tethered, but it escaped.) The Wright brothers, and everyone else who followed aviation at the turn of the 20th century, were well aware of Herring, Adler and Maxim. Herring made himself a royal pest to them for the rest of his life. They were very gracious to these others, giving them much credit -- more than they deserved, in my opinion. The Wrights defined their own accomplishments very carefully, in extensive, detailed engineering descriptions, in their published papers and patent. Getting off the ground was the least of their accomplishments. It was the scientific analysis and the engineering, rather than the flight itself, that makes them great. "Control" and airworthiness do not sound like much, but the difference between machines with these qualities and machines like Pearse's is gigantic, and far more significant than the act of actually riding something through the air for a short distance. By 1905 the Wrights developed their design into a machine capable of flying for 40 minutes in variable winds, hundreds of feet high in the air, with full, three-dimensional control. Machines like Pearse's or Herring's could never have done that. They were dead-end designs. They did not begin to address the technical issues, and they were not based on anything like an engineering analysis, or solid wind tunnel data. As I said, 99.99% of the Wright brother's accomplishment was intellectual. They understood the natural forces that allow controlled flight, and they understood how to engineer extraordinarily effective airfoils, both wings and propellers. People like Pearse had no clue how to do these things, and they only survived their flights because they were lucky. If a light wind had blown the wrong way for a few seconds, they would have been killed. Herring, Pearse and these others understood that their machines were death traps. They must have known this, instinctively. That is why they only tried to fly a few times, or only once. By 1903, the Wrights had flow gliders hundreds of times, for distances and durations far longer than any previous glide or powered hop, by anyone else. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 09:17:23 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id JAA21697; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:12:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:12:46 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: New evidence of a life energy Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:36:27 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3FE1236B.1040301@eol.ca> X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"vHKDy1.0.yI5.D0Uu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52683 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Dave. Thanks for the info. I think you've described the device in enough detail, there is no need to go into _how_ you're making the current measurement, just that it's the thing being measured. You know, you should look through the patent databases, proximity sensors using capacity and electrostatic methods are not new, you might get some good ideas and see what else has been done. That there is some unique property to life that could be detected with this sounds novel to me, but I'm no expert in sensor prior art. I have some dim recollection of a researching making such a claim for electrostatic measurement, I think the idea was to detect the tiny voltages generated by a beating heart or nerve activation, if memory serves. This would have been in the mid 90's, and he was looking for venture capital ( of course ). I remember capacitive sensors were being developed and patented by NASA around the same time period, old Tech briefs would have details. The leaf experiment is interesting, have you gone up the food chain to something that can die faster, perhaps bacteria or yeast? I guess it's not hard to imagine that a living thing would change conductivity as the cells lost vitality. I know from my own experiments that conductivity through the body maps roughly onto the accupuncture meridians, also that conductivity can be changed by passing currents along those paths (making mapping a challenge). In a way, your leaf experiment is much like what was done with kirilian photography, which also basically measures the conductive paths through an object. If you've sold a few of these things, what are your users doing with them? K. -----Original Message----- From: Dave [mailto:vortex@eol.ca] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 10:48 PM To: vortex-l Subject: Re: New evidence of a life energy Hi Keith, The Experimental Life Energy Meter does require, as a minimum, an inductive connection to ground. This is provided by the AC adapter, or alternatively, the negative side of the recorder output jack can be attached to any convenient earth. Without this the readings are considerably weaker and erratic. A large plate or battery connected to the DC input jack would also be sufficient and no earth connection would then be required. The current flow which is the basis for the readings is however that current which fills the space around the plate and includes the ground if it is close enough. The current however is small, in the microamp range, and thus no physical sensation is felt even if the bare plate is touched. This is in contrast to Reich's original invention which shocked the user if the plate was touched directly. The current sensor was the result of several years of development and the details of its operation are still under wraps. It has been optimized to work at the frequency of operation and has two ranges which may be selected on the rear of the device. One range is for small electrodes and one for large plates. I hope this helps you understand the principle more clearly. Best regards, Dave Marett www.heliognosis.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 10:05:41 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA27907; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:03:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:03:09 -0800 Message-ID: <002a01c3c58f$e72eb920$8837fea9@cpq> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <6.0.1.1.2.20031218113518.01cb2328@pop.mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Sharing Damadian's sorrow Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:53:53 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id KAA27829 Resent-Message-ID: <"qTW0A2.0.wp6.SlUu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52684 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell writes > This powered flight by Richard Pearse does not count as the first > controlled airplane flight. Perhaps you are correct. The precise definition that is used to give the honor to the WBs is: To attain fully controlled flight a pilot would have to be able to get his plane into the air, fly it on a chosen course of some extended distance and then land it at a *predetermined destination.* Pearse was done-in by the landing, but the flight in question was more impressive than the WBs in distance and maneuverability and moreover, there is the nagging little issue that is usually skirted by the yanks - when arguing with the kiwis on this point : "wasn't the after-the-fact *definition* itself of "controlled flight" framed in order to give the honor to your side"? As in the Damadian case, where the folks over in Stockholm are desperately clinging to some equally questionable ad hoc or post hoc definition, patronizingly tossed out in order to justify their choice... well, let's don't go there... But the casual observer must admit that the Pearse flight sure sounds "controlled" to one who is untaught in the finer points of self-serving rationalization (and probably to more than a few kiwis who counter that the Wright's first flight was too short of a hop. Here is an account of what they consider to be "man's first controlled flight" : "Pearse took off along the side of the Opihi River, turned left to fly over the 30' tall river bank, then turned right to fly parallel to the middle of the river. After flying nearly 1,000 yards, his engine began to overheat and lost power, thus forcing a landing way down the dry-ish riverbed [not where he originally had intended, to be sure]. One of the locals, Arthur Tozer, was crossing the river at the time and was rather surprised to have Pearse fly right over his head!" At any rate, I find that the most interesting thing about the Pearse accomplishment, whatever it will be label by future historians, is not the issue of control or lack thereof, but the fantastic design of his home-built engine, which had many surprisingly advanced features: 1) opposed pistons 2) "Scotch yoke" connectors 3) fuel preheating (a necessity when using unrefined crude oil) 4) forced supercharging Unfortunately, it overheated because he didn't realize that preheating the fuel wouldn't remove enough BTU from the combustion process and he didn't use cooling fins to help, not to mention having to built everything from scratch. Had Pearse been able to get further funding, and then get into automobile production somewhere that a decent sized market existed, we might have had the Pearse Arrow instead of the Pearce Arrow... Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 10:54:40 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA29555; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:51:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:51:07 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031218130656.01cb2648@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:16:54 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Sharing Damadian's sorrow Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"Oh9q3.0.kD7.RSVu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52685 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jones Beene writes: > Perhaps you are correct. The precise definition that is used to give the > honor to the WBs is: To attain fully controlled flight a pilot would > have to be able to get his plane into the air, fly it on a chosen course > of some extended distance and then land it at a *predetermined > destination.* That is not a good definition. To attain fully controlled flight, the pilot most be able to encounter light winds or an unbalanced condition and recover without going out of control and crashing. He must be able to recover from a stall or spin. Once you have that measure of control, it follows that you can land at a predetermined destination, or swerve around trees, recover from being blown upside-down, and maneuver in various other ways. Without that control, any flight -- even in perfectly calm weather and ideal conditions -- is a game of Russian Roulette. The only to achieve that is to implement 3-dimensional control with an unstable but airworthy aircraft. Pearse's craft does not have a movable tail, so it would be fatal even in a light breeze. There is much else wrong with it, as even I can tell at a glance. The 1901 Wright glider was far ahead of it. > Pearse was done-in by the landing, but the flight in question was more > impressive than the WBs in distance and maneuverability . . . The only impressive thing about it is that he survived. At best, it was a lucky escape. The Wrights had flown *hundreds of times* by 1903. If Pearse, Herring, Adler or Maxim had tried to fly more than two or three times, they would have been dead meat. > and moreover, there is the nagging little issue that is usually skirted by > the yanks - when arguing with the kiwis on this point : "wasn't the > after-the-fact *definition* itself of "controlled flight" framed in order > to give the honor to your side"? No, the definition was framed by Wilbur Wright in his lecture at the Western Society of Engineers, in 1901. The Wrights had determined the right set of questions by 1898, I think. It took them five years to discover the answers, in one of the fastest and most effective R&D projects in history. The fact their answer was correct is manifest: a few years later they developed an airplane that could fly for 30 minutes, and later flew for over an hour a thousand feed in the air in conditions that would have instantly fatal to anyone else, including blustery winter winds and driving sleet, on Dec. 31, 1908. This is incomparably better performance than Pearse or Herring could ever have achieved, with their limited knowledge and skills. They were shooting in the dark while the Wrights were making aviation into a science. > As in the Damadian case, where the folks over in Stockholm are > desperately clinging to some equally questionable ad hoc or post hoc > definition, patronizingly tossed out in order to justify their choice... > well, let's don't go there... The two situations could not be more different. > But the casual observer must admit that the Pearse flight sure sounds > "controlled" . . . The flight sounds insane. >. . . to one who is untaught in the finer points of self-serving > rationalization . . . This is absurd revisionism. Rationalization has nothing to do with it. The issue was based on engineering issues defined 5 years before the first flight, and actual performance. If Pearse or Herring had gone four feet off the ground in the winter conditions in Dec. 1903, or 1908, they would have crashed and been killed instantly. When the French aviators and engineers saw the first Wright flight in France in August 1908, they knew instantly that the Wrights were far, far ahead of everyone else. The leading French experts said, "We are beaten! We just don't exist!" and "we are as children compared to the Wrights." They were not kidding, and the French are not known for national humility or giving credit to others unnecessarily. The Wright flyer was not *a little* better, or *marginally* more controllable, it could be flown hundreds of times in all kinds of weather a thousand feet in the air, at a time when every other machine earth could barely take off for a few seconds, could not turn, and would not survive a slight unexpected puff of air. > At any rate, I find that the most interesting thing about the Pearse > accomplishment, whatever it will be label by future historians, is not > the issue of control or lack thereof, but the fantastic design of his > home-built engine, which had many surprisingly advanced features: > 1) opposed pistons > 2) "Scotch yoke" connectors > 3) fuel preheating (a necessity when using unrefined crude oil) > 4) forced supercharging The Wright engine was not very impressive, except in its cost, weight and simplicity. The Wrights designed it and Charles Taylor built it in his spare time. Engines made by Maxim and others ten years earlier were far better. Some developed 50 HP and were not much heavier than the Wright 12 HP engine. The engine was irrelevant to the accomplishment. As Wilbur pointed out, steam engines in the 1870s could have been used for powered flight. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 11:48:02 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id LAA05074; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:45:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:45:02 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031218144320.01cb2750@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:45:01 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: LENR-CANR.org downloads exceed 350,000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"6ptYn.0.EF1.zEWu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52686 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Total LENR-CANR downloads exceeded 350,000 today. Traffic is down a little from recent weeks. I think this is because of Christmas holiday at colleges and high schools. It should pick up again in January. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 18 20:44:54 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id UAA07311; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 20:43:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 20:43:04 -0800 Message-ID: <3FE283DE.2010303@eol.ca> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 23:51:42 -0500 From: Dave User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; N; PPC; en-US; m18) Gecko/20010131 Netscape6/6.01 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l Subject: Re : New evidence of a life energy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bXKou1.0.9o1.O7eu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52687 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Keith, I would agree with you that comparisons could be made between the Heliognosis Experimental Life Energy Meter and Kirlian photography. Also a great deal of research is taking place, especially in England, in an attempt to make full body scanners using "capacitive" sensing technology. Indeed, a larger living thing would be a good subject for the next experiment. I think bacteria will be a little problematic but perhaps a fish would do the trick. Hopefully I will not upset anybody by killing a fish for Science's sake! There are quite a few meters out there now and they are being used for personal health and food measurements, medicinal tincture comparisons, pure research, and testing of energy generating devices to name a few. I welcome any feedback from users who would like to share their experiences. Dave www.heliognosis.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 08:07:13 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA11413; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:04:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:04:38 -0800 Message-ID: <023a01c3c648$851e3440$8837fea9@cpq> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: ZPE tops list Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 07:55:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0235_01C3C605.76857620" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Resent-Message-ID: <"la8-A2.0.Eo2.M6ou_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52688 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0235_01C3C605.76857620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Science" magazine's Top 10 breakthroughs of the year 2003 On the top of the chart... YES, the very top: 1. Illuminating the dark Universe.=20 "Satellite and telescope data cemented the idea that the Universe is = composed mainly of dark energy and dark matter."=20 It is the contention of a few of us that this so-called "dark energy" = and "dark matter" are nothing less than cogent cosmological evidence of = Dirac's "sea of negative electrons," which Dirac himself called "dark = energy."=20 And more importantly, there is no good reason not to link this hidden = feature of reality, Dirac's sea, with the zero point field (the 'sea' = being the superset of the ZPF) or with our expanding understanding of = the "aether" (epos, or materons). If you google ZPE, you will find a few = self-appointed experts who might take exception to this statement... a = few will even express shock or indignation, but if you look at their = arguments against this linkage, they will invariably be reduced to = semantics, and/or differences in 'a priori' assumptions that can be = rectified by majority rule (i.e. by incorporation into a revised "meme" = for ZPE).=20 Or else the disagreement will come from skeptics who want to ridicule = ZPE and the aether but know that there is no way to deny the logic and = mathematics of Dirac's observations. And remember that Michelson & = Morley did NOT prove that a luminiferous aether doesn't exist, as many = Luddites like to regurgitate, ad nauseum. They proved only that if = aether exists, it doesn't present a radiation velocity differential with = respect to the direction of motion of the bulk of matter we call Earth. = And that is what one would suspect anyway, when taking into account the = implications of dimensionality, so the bottom line is that this = Michelson & Morley tripe is little more than meaningless, insofar as ZPE = or the aether is concerned. If there are minor pre-existing conflicts in this definition (or = re-definition), I suggest that those who are interested in ZPE as = explicative of some free-energy effects make a conscious effort to = continually reinforce the notion that when we speak of ZPE, we are = talking about one of the manifestation of Dirac's "sea of negative = electrons."=20 Jones Thanks to Dr. Mallove, Don Hotson=B9s excellent papers, originally = published in Infinite Energy, Issues # 43 and 44 as: "Dirac=B9s Equation and the Sea of Negative Energy, IE #43, May/June = 2002 "Dirac=B9s Equation and the Sea of Negative Energy, IE #44, July/August = 2002 Have now been posted by him with permission at: http://www.zeitlin.net/OpenSETI/Docs/HotsonPart1.pdf> http://www.zeitlin.net/OpenSETI/Docs/HotsonPart2.pdf> BTW, if Dr. Mitchell Swartz is tuning-in to vortex today, please be = aware that for whatever reason (probably your spam settings), email is = continually bounced back from your email address. ------=_NextPart_000_0235_01C3C605.76857620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"Science" magazine's Top 10 breakthroughs of the year 2003

On the top of the chart... YES, the very top:
 
1. Illuminating the dark Universe.
 
"Satellite and telescope data cemented the idea that the Universe = is=20 composed mainly of dark energy and dark matter."
 
 
It is the contention of a few of us that this so-called = "dark=20 energy" and "dark matter" are nothing less than cogent=20 cosmological evidence of Dirac's "sea of negative electrons," which = Dirac=20 himself called "dark energy."
 
And more importantly, there is no good reason not to link this = hidden=20 feature of reality, Dirac's sea, with the zero point field (the = 'sea' being=20 the superset of the ZPF) or with our expanding understanding of the = "aether" (epos, or materons). If you google ZPE, you will find a = few=20 self-appointed experts who might take exception to this statement... a = few will=20 even express shock or indignation, but if you look at their arguments = against=20 this linkage, they will invariably be reduced to semantics, and/or = differences=20 in 'a priori' assumptions that can be rectified by majority rule (i.e. = by=20 incorporation into a revised "meme" for ZPE).
 
Or else the disagreement will come from skeptics who want = to ridicule ZPE and the aether but know that there is no way to = deny the=20 logic and mathematics of Dirac's observations. And remember = that Michelson=20 & Morley did NOT prove that a luminiferous aether=20 doesn't exist, as many Luddites like to regurgitate, ad = nauseum. They=20 proved only that if aether exists, it doesn't present a radiation = velocity=20 differential with respect to the direction of motion of the bulk of = matter we=20 call Earth. And that is what one would suspect anyway, when taking into = account=20 the implications of dimensionality, so the bottom line is=20 that this Michelson & Morley tripe is little more = than=20 meaningless, insofar as ZPE or the aether is concerned.
 
If there are minor pre-existing conflicts in this definition (or=20 re-definition), I suggest that those who are interested in ZPE as = explicative of=20 some free-energy effects make a conscious effort to continually = reinforce the=20 notion that when we speak of ZPE, we are talking about one of the=20 manifestation of Dirac's "sea of negative electrons."
 
Jones
 
Thanks to Dr. Mallove,  Don Hotson=B9s excellent papers, = originally=20 published in Infinite Energy, Issues # 43 and 44 as:
"Dirac=B9s Equation and the Sea of Negative Energy, IE #43, = May/June=20 2002
"Dirac=B9s Equation and the Sea of Negative Energy,  IE = #44,=20 July/August 2002

Have now been posted by him with permission = at:
http://www.= zeitlin.net/OpenSETI/Docs/HotsonPart1.pdf>
http://www.= zeitlin.net/OpenSETI/Docs/HotsonPart2.pdf>
 
 
BTW,  if Dr. Mitchell Swartz is tuning-in to vortex today, = please be=20 aware that for whatever reason (probably your spam settings), email is=20 continually bounced back from your email address.
 
 


------=_NextPart_000_0235_01C3C605.76857620-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 08:28:54 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA27758; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:27:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:27:42 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Re : New evidence of a life energy Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:51:27 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3FE283DE.2010303@eol.ca> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"6ju2_2.0.dn6.zRou_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52689 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Dave. I mention the bacteria for several reasons: 1) You can get a lot of life in a flask. 2) You can kill it all very rapidly. 3) It all dies at the same time. In the case of the leaf, or the fish, killing the organism such that all cellular life is extinguished takes quite a long time. In addition, other life forms grow and feed off the corpse, nature abhors a vacuum... You show how a flask of fluid can be measured on the website, I'd add that by wrapping foil about the flask and connecting it to the case ground would ensure measurement only in the region of the flask. My suggestion is this arrangement, with a high concentration of microoganisms. Either a toxin, or CO2 could be used to do the dirty deed, whatever is used should not affect the water conductivity greatly and also kill the organisms without damaging the cell walls. This last bit because one can view the cells as packettes of electrolyte which if ruptured will make the water more conductive. I should think that with such an arrangement, you might expect a very rapid and strong meter deflection on application of the toxin. Plus you avoid a stinking dead fish lying around the lab; I like my sushi _fresh_ thank you very much. K. -----Original Message----- From: Dave [mailto:vortex@eol.ca] Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 11:52 PM To: vortex-l Subject: Re : New evidence of a life energy Hi Keith, I would agree with you that comparisons could be made between the Heliognosis Experimental Life Energy Meter and Kirlian photography. Also a great deal of research is taking place, especially in England, in an attempt to make full body scanners using "capacitive" sensing technology. Indeed, a larger living thing would be a good subject for the next experiment. I think bacteria will be a little problematic but perhaps a fish would do the trick. Hopefully I will not upset anybody by killing a fish for Science's sake! There are quite a few meters out there now and they are being used for personal health and food measurements, medicinal tincture comparisons, pure research, and testing of energy generating devices to name a few. I welcome any feedback from users who would like to share their experiences. Dave www.heliognosis.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 08:29:19 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA27788; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:27:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:27:44 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: ZPE tops list Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:51:30 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <023a01c3c648$851e3440$8837fea9@cpq> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"MSdL12.0.-n6._Rou_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52690 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jones. You write: >And remember that Michelson & Morley did NOT prove >that a luminiferous aether doesn't exist, as many >Luddites like to regurgitate, ad nauseum. They proved >only that if aether exists, it doesn't present a radiation >velocity differential with respect to the direction of motion >of the bulk of matter we call Earth. More to the point, they proved the nonexistance of an aether which affects linear motion through it. As was later shown by Michelson and Gale, it is possible to see drag effects for rotating systems. They measured the earth rotation pretty accurately. How you interpret these results depends on your education and fringiness. General Relativity does offer and explaination but certainly not the only one. No doubt you are familar with the Silvertoothe experiment, which combined the two interferometers mentioned above into one. This was tested at China Lake back in the early 90's???? It was mentioned on the list that CF work was also done there, perhaps a contact here on vortex could find out how the testing went? K. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 09:12:34 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id JAA27964; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 09:10:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 09:10:05 -0800 Message-ID: <3FE330FB.9010407@pobox.com> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:10:19 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New evidence of a life energy References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CQN3W.0.uq6.i3pu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52691 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Keith Nagel wrote: > [...] I have some dim recollection > of a researching making such a claim for electrostatic > measurement, I think the idea was to detect the tiny voltages > generated by a beating heart or nerve activation, if memory > serves. [...] FWIW sharks can do this (without auxilliary equipment). From what I've read they can detect prey that is buried in sand by sensing the currents in its nervous system. I don't know what their range is, though. I don't know if anyone has tried to find out if sharks ever _send_ anything which is intended to be received by the electrical senses of other sharks. If they do, that would be either an example of hard-science ESP, or of a biological radio, depending on your point of view. (Sorry if this sounds like a rerun; I mentioned it in a different message on a different topic a while back.) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 09:41:38 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id JAA16641; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 09:40:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 09:40:04 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: New evidence of a life energy Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:03:48 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3FE330FB.9010407@pobox.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"Op1GU.0.t34.pVpu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52692 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Steve. >FWIW sharks can do this (without auxilliary equipment). From what I've >read they can detect prey that is buried in sand by sensing the currents >in its nervous system. I don't know what their range is, though. Remarkable. With all the silly shark documentaries I've absorbed over a lifetime of PBS watching, I don't remember that ever being mentioned. So much for educational TV. Of course, you are also aware of electric eels, which both sense and kill with their self generated field. They would be good candidates for testing your notion that animals might communicate with the fields; I'll bet eels do just that. I think the reason these abilities are so rare in living beings is that nature is infinitely lazy, and it's a whole lot easier and more beneficial to move to _much_ higher frequencies and use that portion of the electromagnetic spectrum we call "light". In that sense, we communicate with electromagnetic waves every day. K. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 11:41:40 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id LAA04267; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:38:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:38:43 -0800 Message-ID: <3FE35412.8060606@rtpatlanta.com> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 14:40:02 -0500 From: Terry Blanton User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New evidence of a life energy References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"426Db1.0.d21.2Fru_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52693 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Keith Nagel wrote: >Hi Steve. > > > >>FWIW sharks can do this (without auxilliary equipment). From what I've >>read they can detect prey that is buried in sand by sensing the currents >>in its nervous system. I don't know what their range is, though. >> >> > >Remarkable. With all the silly shark documentaries I've >absorbed over a lifetime of PBS watching, I don't remember >that ever being mentioned. So much for educational TV. > I saw that one, too. The ability to sense an electric field was discovered because a shark in one aquarium kept bumping it's nose at the same spot on the metallic frame of a viewing window. It was found that he was sensing the field caused by dissimilar metals in that frame. Had some great shots of the sharks grabbing meals buried several centimeters below the surface of the sand. I think it was on the Discovery Channel. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 11:43:59 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id LAA07999; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:42:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:42:38 -0800 Message-ID: <3FE354FE.3060902@rtpatlanta.com> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 14:43:58 -0500 From: Terry Blanton User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : New evidence of a life energy References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hoDtU1.0.vy1.kIru_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52694 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Keith Nagel wrote: >Hi Dave. > >I mention the bacteria for several reasons: > >1) You can get a lot of life in a flask. >2) You can kill it all very rapidly. >3) It all dies at the same time. > I saw it done with yeast. They took a yeast culture and split it into two jars. They measured the galvanic response of one jar while pouring sulphuric acid into the other. The meter went wild. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 12:36:49 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id MAA14698; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:35:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:35:15 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Re : New evidence of a life energy Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:58:55 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3FE354FE.3060902@rtpatlanta.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"9uiv4.0.Xb3.14su_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52695 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Yes, well, the problem with your suggestion is that adding H2SO4 will _radically_ alter the conductivity of the solution. More meaningful would be a differential measurement with both jars getting the acid. Still, a toxin that works on the cells directly in minute quantity would be more to the point. Curare??? K. -----Original Message----- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:blantont@rtpatlanta.com] Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 2:44 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : New evidence of a life energy Keith Nagel wrote: >Hi Dave. > >I mention the bacteria for several reasons: > >1) You can get a lot of life in a flask. >2) You can kill it all very rapidly. >3) It all dies at the same time. > I saw it done with yeast. They took a yeast culture and split it into two jars. They measured the galvanic response of one jar while pouring sulphuric acid into the other. The meter went wild. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 12:43:45 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id MAA18825; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:42:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:42:16 -0800 Message-ID: <3FE362B7.9010409@pobox.com> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:42:31 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : New evidence of a life energy References: <3FE354FE.3060902@rtpatlanta.com> In-Reply-To: <3FE354FE.3060902@rtpatlanta.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ApQdS1.0.1c4.dAsu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52696 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Terry Blanton wrote: > > Keith Nagel wrote: > >> Hi Dave. >> >> I mention the bacteria for several reasons: >> >> 1) You can get a lot of life in a flask. 2) You can kill it all >> very rapidly. 3) It all dies at the same time. > > I saw it done with yeast. They took a yeast culture and split it > into two jars. They measured the galvanic response of one jar while > pouring sulphuric acid into the other. The meter went wild. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Is that correct? They added the acid to jar "A" and the response for jar "B" went wild? Or was that just a slip? It's pretty wild if one jar responded to something happening to the other jar! From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 13:22:57 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id NAA12294; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:20:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:20:13 -0800 Message-ID: <029701c3c674$992bdb00$8837fea9@cpq> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <3FE354FE.3060902@rtpatlanta.com> <3FE362B7.9010409@pobox.com> Subject: Re: Re : New evidence of a life energy Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:10:53 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA12265 Resent-Message-ID: <"Hszw32.0.103.Cksu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52697 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Stephen A. Lawrence writes, > Is that correct? They added the acid to jar "A" and the response for > jar "B" went wild? Or was that just a slip? > It's pretty wild if one jar responded to something happening to the > other jar! You might enjoy this : It is documented and experimentally supported that many kinds of living cell emits coherent light, i.e. biophotons. Communication between cells can thereby be instantaneously achieved via photon emission according to Prof. Fritz A. Popp. Here is some further info: http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/summ01/Biophysics/Biophysics.html Yes. This work is about as controversial as cold fusion. Not that that's a bad thing... an Elaine Benis (of Seinfield fame) likes to quip... Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 13:27:05 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id NAA15443; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:25:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:25:43 -0800 Message-ID: <3FE36D26.8080700@rtpatlanta.com> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:27:02 -0500 From: Terry Blanton User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : New evidence of a life energy References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zTjP12.0.Bn3.Mpsu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52698 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Keith Nagel wrote: >Yes, well, the problem with your suggestion >is that adding H2SO4 will _radically_ alter >the conductivity of the solution. > Maybe I wasn't clear on this. The measurements were taken on the jar which DID NOT RECEIVE the acid. Now, it was done in one room; so, maybe those little yeasters were responding to what they saw instead of any ESPer signal. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 13:29:36 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id NAA17148; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:28:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:28:02 -0800 Message-ID: <3FE36DB0.7080400@rtpatlanta.com> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:29:20 -0500 From: Terry Blanton User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : New evidence of a life energy References: <3FE354FE.3060902@rtpatlanta.com> <3FE362B7.9010409@pobox.com> In-Reply-To: <3FE362B7.9010409@pobox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"X9_1J3.0.nB4.Xrsu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52699 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > Is that correct? They added the acid to jar "A" and the response for > jar "B" went wild? Or was that just a slip? You got it. In another test, two plants were raised together. The Ohm meter measured one while leaves were torn on the other. Care to guess? From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 13:52:17 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id NAA32026; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:49:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:49:30 -0800 Message-ID: <3FE37279.7040200@pobox.com> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:49:45 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : New evidence of a life energy References: <3FE354FE.3060902@rtpatlanta.com> <3FE362B7.9010409@pobox.com> <3FE36DB0.7080400@rtpatlanta.com> In-Reply-To: <3FE36DB0.7080400@rtpatlanta.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mRHZl1.0.Mq7.f9tu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52700 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Terry Blanton wrote: > > Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > >> Is that correct? They added the acid to jar "A" and the response >> for jar "B" went wild? Or was that just a slip? > > You got it. In another test, two plants were raised together. The > Ohm meter measured one while leaves were torn on the other. Care to > guess? Hmm. If the plants were positioned so that they could "smell" each other this one might not be too hard to explain. Injured plants have been found to emit pheromones. To date, the only "purpose" I know of that has been assigned to these by humans is to notify predatory insects that they should come and check out the area for prey; the assumption is that the "prey" would be the bugs which injured the plants to start with. I don't recall ever reading anything about tests to see if nearby plants might also respond to the pheromones. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 15:18:29 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id PAA29129; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:17:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:17:14 -0800 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:19:28 -0700 From: "R. Wormus" Reply-To: vortex-list To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : New evidence of a life energy Message-ID: <30287437.1071850768@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3FE36DB0.7080400@rtpatlanta.com> References: <3FE36DB0.7080400@rtpatlanta.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.2.0 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"TRBZn2.0.577.wRuu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52701 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Lots of this type stuff is documented in: The Secret Life of = Plants by Peter Tompkins Ron --On Friday, December 19, 2003 4:29 PM -0500 Terry Blanton = < wrote: >=20 >=20 > Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: >=20 >> Is that correct? They added the acid to jar "A" and the response for=20 >> jar "B" went wild? Or was that just a slip?=20 >=20 >=20 > You got it. In another test, two plants were raised together. The Ohm > meter measured one while leaves were torn on the other. Care to guess? >=20 > =20 From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 15:50:56 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id PAA19601; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:49:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:49:47 -0800 Message-ID: <3FE38EEB.6030401@rtpatlanta.com> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:51:07 -0500 From: Terry Blanton User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : New evidence of a life energy References: <3FE354FE.3060902@rtpatlanta.com> <3FE362B7.9010409@pobox.com> <3FE36DB0.7080400@rtpatlanta.com> <3FE37279.7040200@pobox.com> In-Reply-To: <3FE37279.7040200@pobox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zKedr2.0.3o4.Rwuu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52702 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > If the plants were positioned so that they could "smell" each other > this one might not be too hard to explain. This was the same program where they cut a section from a leaf and did a Kirlian photograph which showed a faint glow where the missing section was. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 17:51:09 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id RAA10269; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:49:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:49:26 -0800 Message-ID: <3FE3ACA9.9050709@eol.ca> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 20:58:01 -0500 From: Dave User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; N; PPC; en-US; m18) Gecko/20010131 Netscape6/6.01 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: New evidence of a life energy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pSL8Z2.0.DW2.bgwu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52703 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Keith and all: This is a fascinating topic about how plants and animals "sense" the death or injury of other living things at a distance. I have an article, now temporarily misplaced, in Popular Electronics from 1973 I believe, called "Experiments in Electroculture". The author connected a millivoltmeter to a sensitive plant (such as a Philodendron) and threatened the plant with injury in various ways. One was to approach the leaf with a burning match and intend harm. The millivoltmeter reacted strongly indicating a physiological response to the threat. He went on to perform other experiments, some at great distance, and he claimed that the plant responded to these experiments. Another involved killing brine shrimp in the same room. This suggests a possible experiment where the Heliognosis Experimental Life Energy Meter could be connected to a living plant leaf and various stimulii or intent at a distance could be applied. Perhaps the physiological changes would be reflected in the Life energy field as well. The idea of using yeast in a small container and placing it on the plate electrode would also be an excellent experiment. Chemical agents would alter the reading but radiation would not. Nuclear radiation is obviously not an option but UV from a bacteriocidal lamp would probably be sufficient and quick. Dave www.heliognosis.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 18:02:04 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id SAA18573; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:00:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:00:24 -0800 Message-ID: <3FE39829.8415910E@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:30:33 -0800 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD472 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vortex Subject: [Fwd: WHAT'S NEW Friday, December 19, 2003] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QHjEv2.0.4Y4.tqwu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52704 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: WHAT'S NEW Friday, December 19, 2003 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 14:50:56 -0500 From: "What's New" Reply-To: whatsnew@bobpark.org To: Akira Kawasaki WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 19 Dec 03 Washington, DC 1. CLIMATE CHANGE: AGU STATEMENT REFLECTS THE GROWING CONSENSUS. It is now "scientifically inconceivable that human activity has not altered climate systems," explained John Christy, Director of the Earth Systems Science Center at the University of Alabama, Huntsville. He spoke this week at an American Geophysical Union press briefing in Washington to announce a new position statement on Human Impact on Climate. An AGU statement three years ago was far more tentative (WN 29 Jan 99). Even the Bush administration now accepts the reality of anthropogenic warming (WN 7 Jun 02). 2. MISSILE DEFENSE: DEPLOYMENT IS STILL SCHEDULED FOR LATE 2004. It was just one year ago that President Bush ordered deployment of a limited system of interceptor missiles in California and Alaska by the end of 2004 (WN 20 Dec 02). But in the meantime, according to a story this week in Space News, the test schedule has fallen behind by about six months. "Tough break," I said to my friend General Persiflage at the Missile Defense Agency, "how much will postponing the tests delay deployment?" He was clearly amused: "Not one day; it's all part of the plan. The Commander- in-Chief ordered us to deploy in 2004, and deploy we will. The only thing that could get in our way is to blow a test. So why ask for trouble?" He chuckled, "You scientists always think you have to do experiments. This is a faith-based initiative." 3. NUCLEAR WEAPONS: THE OVERTURNING OF US NUCLEAR WEAPONS POLICY. For more than half a century, the sole use for US nuclear weapons had been to deter a nuclear attack. Two years ago, however, the Bush Administration completed its Nuclear Posture Review (WN 15 Mar 02). It led to the repeal of a 1994 ban on research and development of new, low-yield nuclear weapons (WN 28 Nov 03). National Nuclear Security Administration head, Linton Brooks, has been dancing in the end zone. He sent a letter to lab directors proding them to "take advantage of this opportunity to close any gaps in understanding of the possible military applications of atomic energy." 4. ENVIRONMENT: MtBE CAUSES CANCER, AND A BIG STINK IN CONGRESS. The Bush Administration had expected to enact legislation this year setting a new energy policy. The bill struggled under the weight of special-interest deals, but what finally sank it was a provision immunizing makers of a gasoline additive, MtBE,, from lawsuits (WN 28 Nov 03). MtBE has a way of getting into groundwater, where even in trace amounts it smells and tastes terrible so terrible no one can stand to drink it. That turns out to be a very good thing, because MtBE also causes cancer in laboratory animals and the International Agency for Research on Cancer treats it as a carcinogen. Most of the makers seems to be in the Houston district of House Majority Leader Tom Delay. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.aps.org/WN You are currently subscribed to whatsnew as: aki@ix.netcom.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-whatsnew-27231J@lists.apsmsgs.org To subscribe, send a blank e-mail to: From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 19:27:37 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id TAA02847; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 19:26:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 19:26:33 -0800 From: Dean Miller To: vortex-list Subject: Re: Re : New evidence of a life energy Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:30:48 -0600 Organization: Miller and Associates Message-ID: <9t57uv06v736ef2od00emjoi84dsuu3cdt@4ax.com> References: <3FE36DB0.7080400@rtpatlanta.com> <30287437.1071850768@localhost> In-Reply-To: <30287437.1071850768@localhost> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030212) (MidIowa1.midiowa.net) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA02803 Resent-Message-ID: <"DsWVU2.0.Pi.f5yu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52705 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:19:28 -0700, "R. Wormus" wrote: >Lots of this type stuff is documented in: The Secret Life of Plants by Peter Tompkins Yup. That's the book to start with. Bird's experiments produced startling results. Identifying individual people (plant killers) for example. -- Dean -- from (almost) Des Moines -- KB0ZDF From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 19 21:17:07 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id VAA12268; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 21:16:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 21:16:18 -0800 Message-ID: <20031220051525.4322.qmail@camelot.verisoft.com.tr> From: hamdi ucar To: "vortex" Cc: hamdix@verisoft.com.tr Subject: Pioneer Anomaly by Polarization of Sun Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 07:15:25 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"B_bR73.0.c_2.Yizu_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52706 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello, Pioneer spacecraft keep its orientation by spin and the angle with the sun become fixed more as the distance increase. This cause to think a slowly developing polarization of kind, maybe "gravitational polarization" may cause the spacecraft couple better with sun, therefore decelerate. (Recall Nick Reiter's weight change experiments) I don't know a other condition exist on earth our in our solar system allowing this condition and g be precisely measured. Regards, hamdi ucar From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 20 02:14:44 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id CAA01259; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 02:13:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 02:13:37 -0800 Message-ID: <001401c3c6e1$790f6860$0d9c89d9@oemcji2jbc803c> From: "Mike" To: References: <3FE3ACA9.9050709@eol.ca> Subject: Re: New evidence of a life energy Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:10:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Resent-Message-ID: <"hTk8T1.0.bJ.G32v_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52707 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I read a book some years ago about the paranormal - one of the sections dealt with was the idea that plants are more "alive" than we think. The chapter was entitled: Plants have Souls - The Vegetarian's Nightmare Mike Butcher From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 20 23:59:33 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id XAA07570; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 23:57:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 23:57:43 -0800 From: Baronvolsung@aol.com Message-ID: <140.1f1c7651.2d16ac54@aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 02:57:08 EST Subject: Re: Re : New evidence of a life energy To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: Baronvolsung@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1071993428" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5007 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZI1H01.0.Cs1.t9Lv_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52708 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: -------------------------------1071993428 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/18/2003 11:45:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, vortex@eol.ca writes: I would agree with you that comparisons could be made between the Heliognosis Experimental Life Energy Meter and Kirlian photography. Also a great deal of research is taking place, especially in England, in an attempt to make full body scanners using "capacitive" sensing technology. A high speed infrared camera or video recorder connected to a computer video input scanner can sense and record in holographic picture format real time human infrared energies which make up part of the spiritual, mental, holographic, and psychic energies of living organisms. Russian scientists use high speed infrared camera's to record psychic phenomena. Baron Von Volsung, www.rhfweb.com\baron, Email: www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html President Thomas D. Clark, Email: www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html, Personal Web Page: www.rhfweb.com\personal New Age Production's Inc., www.rhfweb.com\newage Star Haven Community Services, at www.rhfweb.com\sh Radiation Health Foundation Trust at www.rhfweb.com -------------------------------1071993428 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 12/18/2003 11:45:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, vortex= @eol.ca writes:
  I would agree with you that comparisons= could be made between the
Heliognosis Experimental Life Energy Meter an= d Kirlian photography. Also
a great deal of research is taking place, es= pecially in England, in an
attempt to make full body scanners using "cap= acitive" sensing technology.
A high speed infrared camera or video recorder connected to a comp= uter video input scanner can sense and record in holographic picture format=20= real time human infrared energies which make up part of the spiritual, menta= l, holographic, and psychic energies of living organisms.  Russian scie= ntists use high speed infrared camera's to record psychic phenomena.
<= /DIV>
 

Baron Von Volsung, www.rhfweb.com\baron, Email: w= ww.rhfweb.com\emailform.html
President Thomas D. Clark,
Email: www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html, Personal Web Page: = www.rhfweb.com\personal
New Age Production's Inc., www.rhfweb.com\n= ewage
Star Haven Community Services, at www.rhfweb.com\sh
Radiation=20= Health Foundation Trust at www.rhfweb.com
-------------------------------1071993428-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 00:29:17 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id AAA28541; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 00:28:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 00:28:29 -0800 From: Baronvolsung@aol.com Message-ID: <135.2951c50b.2d16b388@aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 03:27:52 EST Subject: Re: New evidence of a life energy To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: Baronvolsung@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1071995272" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5007 Resent-Message-ID: <"TidGV.0.uz6.icLv_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52709 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1071995272 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Other types of life energy sensors: "There are meters that can sense the electrical, temperature, and pressures, changes in the skin of the body to test voltage, heat, and pressure differences in the body, to indirectly discover the effects of the surrounding scalar media waves, whether sound, sonar, infrared, electric, em, elf, or ultrasonic. You would need to measure the differences in voltages, temperature, and pressures on a body over a long term with a series of instruments, such as a polygraph; eeg; gas discharge visualization device posted at www.gdvresearch.com; thermogram for heat changes in and around the body; manometer for pressure changes; electromiogram-never fiber measures; mangentometers used to measure magnetic fields such as Squid (Superconducting QUantum Interference Device) which operates at 5 DegK and can detect and alternating magnetic fields as small as 10-^14 telsa, and it can detect small changes in magnetic fields 400m away; magnetocardiogram MCG may be used to measure the magnetic fields around the heart. The magnetic field around the heart is about 5 x 10^-11 telsa, Magnetoencephalogram MEG may be used to measure the magnetic fields around the brain. During the alpha rhythm the magnetic field from the brain is about 1x 10^-13 T. MEG and MCG measure fields resulting from direct currents which do not show up on an EEG or ECG; gravity and force acceleration measurements can be sensed a miniature piezoelectric triaxial accelerometer or Accelerometer Force Transducer, when a seismic mass is attached to the sensitive gauge element in such a way to allow motion along a specific axis, then the force transducer is sensitive to acceleration along the axis. Because the mass is constant, the acceleration is proportional to the force measured by the force transducer. A=F/M, Inductance manometers. Most of the human frequencies of the body organs and brain, are from 0 to a few hundred hertz. [ Brain and Body Frequencies, Glossary] posted at http://www.lunarsight.com/freq.htm, Radiation Health Foundation, posted at http://www.rhfweb.com/rhfinfo.html" Baron Von Volsung, www.rhfweb.com\baron, Email: www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html President Thomas D. Clark, Email: www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html, Personal Web Page: www.rhfweb.com\personal New Age Production's Inc., www.rhfweb.com\newage Star Haven Community Services, at www.rhfweb.com\sh Radiation Health Foundation Trust at www.rhfweb.com -------------------------------1071995272 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Other types of life energy sensors:
 
"There are meters that can sense the electrical, temperature, and press= ures, changes in the skin of the body to test voltage, heat, and pressure di= fferences in the body, to indirectly discover the effects of the surrounding= scalar media waves, whether sound, sonar, infrared, electric, em, elf, or u= ltrasonic. You would need to measure the differences in voltages, temperatur= e, and pressures on a body over a long term with a series of instruments, su= ch as a polygraph; eeg; gas discharge visualization device posted at www.gdvresearch.com; thermogram for heat= changes in and around the body; manometer for pressure changes; electromiog= ram-never fiber measures; mangentometers used to measure magnetic fields suc= h as Squid (Superconducting QUantum Interference Device) which operates at 5= DegK and can detect and alternating magnetic fields as small as 10-^14 tels= a, and it can detect small changes in magnetic fields 400m away; magnetocard= iogram MCG may be used to measure the magnetic fields around the heart. The=20= magnetic field around the heart is about 5 x 10^-11 telsa, Magnetoencephalog= ram MEG may be used to measure the magnetic fields around the brain. During=20= the alpha rhythm the magnetic field from the brain is about 1x 10^-13 T. MEG= and MCG measure fields resulting from direct currents which do not show up=20= on an EEG or ECG; gravity and force acceleration measurements can be sensed=20= a miniature piezoelectric triaxial accelerometer or Accelerometer Force Tran= sducer, when a seismic mass is attached to the sensitive gauge element in su= ch a way to allow motion along a specific axis, then the force transducer is= sensitive to acceleration along the axis. Because the mass is constant, the= acceleration is proportional to the force measured by the force transducer.= A=3DF/M, Inductance manometers.
Most of the human frequencies of the bod= y organs and brain, are from 0 to a few hundred hertz.

[ Brain and Body Frequencies, Glossary] posted at http://www.lunarsight.com/freq.htm, R= adiation Health Foundation, posted at http://www.rhfweb.com/rhfinfo.html"
 

Baron Von Volsung, www.rhfweb.com\baron, Email: w= ww.rhfweb.com\emailform.html
President Thomas D. Clark,
Email: www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html, Personal Web Page: = www.rhfweb.com\personal
New Age Production's Inc., www.rhfweb.com\n= ewage
Star Haven Community Services, at www.rhfweb.com\sh
Radiation=20= Health Foundation Trust at www.rhfweb.com
-------------------------------1071995272-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 21 09:26:19 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id JAA07688; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 09:25:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 09:25:04 -0800 Message-ID: <3FE5D970.8000201@eol.ca> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 12:33:36 -0500 From: Dave User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; N; PPC; en-US; m18) Gecko/20010131 Netscape6/6.01 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: New evidence of a lIfe energy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tCKNz1.0.3u1.lTTv_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52710 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Baron Von Volsung wrote: "A high speed infrared camera or video recorder connected to a computer video input scanner can sense and record in holographic picture format real time human infrared energies which make up part of the spiritual, mental, holographic, and psychic energies of living organisms. Russian scientists use high speed infrared camera's to record psychic phenomena." These cameras are readily available now and common at shows such as the Whole Life Expo in Toronto. It has been said that the camera will show a colour field image or "aura" even if no one is sitting in front of it. How then to discriminate the "aura" field from the "background" field? "There are meters that can sense the electrical, temperature, and pressures, changes in the skin of the body to test voltage, heat, and pressure differences in the body, to indirectly discover the effects of the surrounding scalar media waves, whether sound, sonar, infrared, electric, em, elf, or ultrasonic." The Heliognosis Experimental Life Energy Meter uses a known field (electric) to probe an unknown field (Orgone). It appears that the Life Energy field absorbs the electric field, this interaction allowing useful information to be returned about the strength of the Life Field. Our tests at Heliognosis indicate that the magnetic field does not interact to the same extent as the electric field. The relationship to heat is a well known and studied phenomena, including the famous To-T accumulator experiment of Wilhelm Reich. Again, this heat effect of the Orgone body field must only be a portion of the total heat of the body and distinguishing the two becomes the challenge. Dave Marett www.heliognosis.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 03:15:13 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id DAA31155; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 03:13:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 03:13:45 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20031222192004.008584a0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 19:20:04 +0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Re: Sharing Damadian's sorrow In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20031218130656.01cb2648@pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"__PiO2.0.Zc7.e7jv_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52711 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: >Jones Beene writes: >>Perhaps you are correct. The precise definition that is used to give the >>honor to the WBs is: To attain fully controlled flight a pilot would >>have to be able to get his plane into the air, fly it on a chosen course >>of some extended distance and then land it at a *predetermined >>destination.* > >That is not a good definition. To attain fully controlled flight, the pilot >most be able to encounter light winds or an unbalanced condition and >recover without going out of control and crashing. He must be able to >recover from a stall or spin. Once you have that measure of control, it >follows that you can land at a predetermined destination, or swerve around >trees, recover from being blown upside-down, and maneuver in various other >ways. Without that control, any flight -- even in perfectly calm weather >and ideal conditions -- is a game of Russian Roulette. That's a ridiculous definition of "controlled flight" in my opinion. How many WW2 era aircraft even could not recover from a spin? How many ultralights (and other aircraft for that matter) are rated for inverted flying !? The commercially made ultralight I flew would not manage more than a fairly shallow bank of about 20 degrees. More than that and it seemed that the inside wing started to stall and the bank got steeper and steeper even with full ailerons to try and correct it and full throttle. (Actually this ultralight didn't have true ailerons but used wing warping similar to the Wrights!) The only way to escape this situation was to dive out of it thus picking up speed - and woe betide you if you hadn't enough height. But that thing would take off in about 20 yards and land in much less (if you had thick grass to act as brakes) and had an abysmal glide ratio of about 3:1. But it sure was "fully controlled flight" and we flew it in good weather with or without a breeze. >The only to achieve that is to implement 3-dimensional control with an >unstable but airworthy aircraft. Pearse's craft does not have a movable >tail, so it would be fatal even in a light breeze. Rubbish. Loads of model aircraft pilots will tell you the opposite. They fly very well indeed with just elevators and ailerons. Indeed many of them are made with only ailerons and elevator control :- "The Fundango is a fun to fly, aerobatic electric airplane that can be flown in small spaces .... Although the Fundango uses only ailerons and elevator, with practice you will be able to perform wing-overs and hammer-heads which traditionally require a rudder. The Fundango ... was designed for exceptional aerobatic performance ..." I'm sure many WW2 pilots got back home safely with their rudder control shot away. The rudder is probably the least useful control for an aircraft without dihedral as there are generally very few vertical surfaces capable of changing the direction of flight when yawed to the side with the rudder. (I have heard that a test pilot can yaw a jet from side to side using the rudder so that at the maximum amplitude of swing the oncoming air is trying to go backwards through the engines!) >...There is much else wrong >with it, as even I can tell at a glance. The 1901 Wright glider was >far ahead of it. Well it looks fine to me and the ultralight I partly owned and used to fly looked amazingly similar. Having the pilot seated so far below the wings gives a low center of gravity which makes it very stable indeed (like a pendulum hanging down) and has the same effect as a large dihedral angle on the wings (particularly with the vertical sail above - side slip is converted to a roll angle which corrects the side slip). This design has to be far more stable than the Wrights one of lying prone near the center of lift of the wings. (Put the pilot above wings without dihedral and you have an unstable craft which can only be kept flying right side up under continuous control - such as by a human) As far as aircraft design goes, almost any shape will fly with a few control surfaces in appropriate positions and intelligence to control them. If the shape has a large frontal profile, sure you need more power, but otherwise the main thing in my opinion to be considered is whether it will fly stably *without* continual intervention to correct instabilities. I have seen a photo of a model aircraft that looked exactly like a wheelbarrow - flying perfectly. It may have had the flat front of the normal wheelbarrow shape left out, but looking from below and slightly from the handle end (as the photo was taken), it looked just like a wheelbarrow with the motor on the edge between the handles. I can't remember which way it flew - handles in front or handles behind - but I am sure that it could have been made to fly just as easy either way. >The only impressive thing about it is that he survived. At best, >it was a lucky escape. I find it incredibly impressive that he even built the engine that he built, never mind using it for what was obviously (except to the most biased) controlled powered flight. >..snip... >.... The engine was irrelevant to the accomplishment. As Wilbur >pointed out, steam engines in the 1870s could have been used for >powered flight. As has been proven much more recently, human pedal power is also sufficient for heavier-than-air flight over rather long distances. However the engineering design and materials required are vastly more difficult. That is why the engine is far from irrelevant to the accomplishment - it strongly affects the sophistication required of the aerodynamic design. The better the engine the less one has to worry about the efficiency of the aerodynamics. If they could have built an engine in those days equal to your average powerful motorcycle today, then they could have taken off vertically without any wings at all. OK they might have needed a small angled sail or something to stop the pilot and craft spinning in the opposite direction, but they would have needed precious little else. A throttle, adjustment of the angle of the sail, and shifting ones weight around would be sufficient to fly anywhere they wanted even in poor weather conditions (With no large surfaces wind gusts don't have much effect). From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 07:19:03 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id HAA06498; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 07:16:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 07:16:46 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031222095314.01cb2898@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:16:53 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Sharing Damadian's sorrow Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"36wR8.0.Mb1.Thmv_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52712 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Winterflood writes: > >That is not a good definition. To attain fully controlled flight, the pilot > >most be able to encounter light winds or an unbalanced condition and > >recover without going out of control and crashing. He must be able to > >recover from a stall or spin. Once you have that measure of control, it > >follows that you can land at a predetermined destination, or swerve around > >trees, recover from being blown upside-down, and maneuver in various other > >ways. Without that control, any flight -- even in perfectly calm weather > >and ideal conditions -- is a game of Russian Roulette. > > That's a ridiculous definition of "controlled flight" in my opinion. > How many WW2 era aircraft even could not recover from a spin? All of them could recover, if the pilot was skilled enough. They were all physically capable of recovering. Before Orville Wright came up with a movable tail, the Wright's gliders often went into a non-recoverable spin. How > many ultralights (and other aircraft for that matter) are rated for > inverted flying !? That was my mistake. I meant to say an airplane should be able to encounter, "encounter light winds or an unbalanced condition" and some, in the extreme case, should be capable of inverted flight. The "winds" and "unbalanced condition" came from a famous essay and statement by Wilbur Wright, defining what an airplane must do. > (Actually this ultralight didn't have true ailerons but used wing > warping similar to the Wrights!) Probably for the same reason: to keep it very small, simple, portable, and something you can assemble in a shack, on a beach, in December. They did not pick this design by accident, and their patent was careful to cover the use of ailerons. > >The only [way] to achieve that is to implement 3-dimensional control with an > >unstable but airworthy aircraft. Pearse's craft does not have a movable > >tail, so it would be fatal even in a light breeze. > > Rubbish. Loads of model aircraft pilots will tell you the opposite. > They fly very well indeed with just elevators and ailerons. I have heard this. But I do not think full scale conventionally shaped airplane piloted by people are capable of this. Future aircraft piloted by computers may come in all kinds of unlikely shapes. > I'm sure many WW2 pilots got back home safely with their rudder > control shot away. Yes, and a full size jet airliner almost managed to land like this. The Wrights flew gliders many times without any rudder control (and without any rudder at all, at first). But they discovered that it only works when conditions remain ideal and you do not try to maneuver much. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 10:14:36 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA15900; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:12:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:12:41 -0800 Message-ID: <004d01c3c8b5$e1522a40$8837fea9@cpq> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <3.0.6.32.20031222192004.008584a0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Subject: Re: Sharing Damadian's sorrow Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:03:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id KAA15817 Resent-Message-ID: <"kLMOq3.0.Lu3.PGpv_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52713 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: John Winterflood writes, Jed Rothwell wrote: "To attain fully controlled flight, the pilot most be able to encounter light winds or an unbalanced condition and recover without going out of control and crashing. He must be able to recover from a stall or spin." > That's a ridiculous definition of "controlled flight" in my opinion. Just out of curiosity, and given that you are a pilot of ultralight aircraft and should be aware of all the nuances involved in such a question: which claimant among all of those early aviation pioneers deserves the honor of being the first to accomplish "controlled" flight (from the perspective of a pilot) ? Jones On a lighter note, and just in time for the spirits of the season: A burglar broke into a house one night. He shined his flashlight around the room looking for valuables but when he picked up a stereo to steal, a strange disembodied voice echoed from the dark saying "Jesus is watching you." The burglar nearly jumped out of his skin, clicked-off his flashlight out and froze. After a few seconds of silence, he continued to disconnect wires, but the same ghostly voice warned, "Jesus is watching you"... Totally panicked, he shined his light around frantically, looking for the source of the voice. Finally, in the corner of the room, the flashlight beam came to rest on a bird cage... . "Did you say that?" . "Yup," the parrot confessed, "I was just trying to warn you." The burglar relaxed. "Warn me, huh? Who the heck are you?" "Moses," "Moses?" the intruder laughed. "What kind of person would name a parrot 'Moses'?" The bird promptly responded, "Probably the same kind of person that would name a 150 pound Rottweiler 'Jesus' " From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 12:56:23 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id MAA05109; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:53:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:53:54 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:53:50 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: MOLTEN LAVA in microwave oven In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"EhCQT1.0.iF1.Xdrv_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52714 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I found a piece of red pumice on the top of the parking garage at the UW. It's the kind you see in gas-powered barbecue grills, or used as decorative stone spread under bushes, a little dusty red 2-in fragment full of bubbles. I kept it because it's location was weird. (Seagulls took it up there? Did it fall from the sky a la Charles Fort?) Brainstorm! Last week I realized that pumice might be volcanic glass but with so much outgassing that it forms a rigid foam and appears diffusive- opaque instead of black/transparent. Since it's easy to melt quartz in a microwave oven if it's full of ionic impurities (such as sodium or boron, normal glass or Pyrex,) the pumice might be the same. When liquid, glass is an electrolyte, a resistor, so it's strongly heated by microwaves. So I heated the top of the stone to slightly red heat with a plumber's torch and stuck it in the microwave for a minute. (small 900 watt oven.) It became red hot and also emitted lots of plasmoids from carbon crap on its surface, but it did not melt visibly. Today I futzed with it some more. I lifted it up on an overturned dish, heated its top yellow-hot with a MAPP gas plumbing torch (much hotter than propane), and nuked it for a minute. It just glowed dull red, but I noticed that the entire ceramic dish was quite hot. Then I noticed that the rotating glass platter was also hot. With no RF load, the standing waves build up until any feeble absorber sucks up the oven's entire output. I got rid of the dish and the glass platter, and placed the pumice fragment on an inverted paper cup. I heated its top to yellow hot again, slammed the door and hit start. It glowed, then darkened, so I moved the cup over an inch to find a "hotspot." Repeat. It glowed, then darkened, but this time there was some red glow peeking out from deep inside the holes in the pumice. The glow increased and momentarily became incandescent white (painful to look at.) Then the glow started spreading through the stone, became orange, and finally a thin crust broke out of the side of the block and a slow stream of bright yellow lava started oozing forwards, carrying black crust fragments as it came. Something right out of a nature program, but in miniature. I hit "stop" and it halted immediately, but not before I... POKED IT WITH A STICK. It never even burned the paper cup. When cool it looked like a glob of shiny black glass. Is that cool, or what! INCANDESCENTLY cool. Usenet: microwave oven lava http://groups.google.com/groups?&threadm=3FE70B9C.3020005%40grc.nasa.gov&prev=/groups%3Fgroup%3Dsci.physics.electromag I just MELTED a frikkn beer bottle http://groups.google.com/groups?&th=580508e39f785852&seekm=2251b4e6.0311291242.3348b924%40posting.google.com#link1 Oops. Uncle Al notes that "red pumice" used for decorative stone is actually slag left behind after the iron is removed from iron ore. I wonder if it's full of added material used to reduce the melting point. Also: On Sat, 29 Nov 2003, William Beaty wrote: > > Reasoning goes like this: > > 1. Glass is normally an insulator > > 2. Hot glass is an electrolyte (sodium or boron ions) > > 3. Manufacturers keep their glass molten by passing kiloamps through it. > > 4. If glass had the right resistance value, it might strongly absorb > microwave radiation. > > 5. I've heard stories where pyrex cups were melted by a microwave oven. > > >From long experience with microwave ovens we know that glass is not a very > good absorber. However, what if the glass was PRE-HEATED to incandescent > temperature? Would its electrical resistance be a match for a microwave > oven's characteristics? Easy enough to find out. > > I found my cheap propane torch and grabbed a handy bottle. I donned eye > protection then carefully flame-heated the whole side of the bottle to > prevent cracking from thermal stresses, then I heated a small spot in the > center until it glowed dimly red. The hotspot was about the size of a > dime. Propane torches aren't great for glassblowing, but they can heat > glass until it just starts to soften. > > I placed the bottle upright in an empty 1000-watt microwave oven, used the > torch to keep the hotspot glowing until the last instant, then slammed the > door and hit "start." > > The hotspot rotated out of sight as the bottle rode around on the > turntable. When it came back into view, it wasn't dimly glowing red. > The hotspot was bright orange and about 3cm in diameter! It's like a > forest fire: the small hotspot heats the neigboring glass, which then > becomes conductive and absorbs radiation, heating the next bit of glass, > etc. The hotspot grows as if the material were on fire! The glowing > glass slumped as I watched. I stopped the oven quickly in case this was > overheating the magnetron. (maybe it's not! maybe I just need a slab of > firebrick to place beneath the bottle.) > > Hmmmmm. INterrrrrresting, no? > > What shall we try melting next? How about an upright glass rod? If I > heat the tip, then maybe it will melt from the top down, like a candle. > Thousand-watt pyrex microwave candle. > > > Ooops! Good thing I left the oven door closed. After about two minutes > the bottle went "tink!" and flew into hot shards as it cooled and > contracted. > > > (((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair > Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci > > (((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 14:38:00 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id OAA17285; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:35:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:35:48 -0800 Message-ID: <009701c3c8da$a2f38580$8837fea9@cpq> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: Subject: Re: MOLTEN LAVA in microwave oven Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:26:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA17219 Resent-Message-ID: <"mDj2j.0._D4.37tv_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52715 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A Hey BillB, Do you have a good radiation monitor or GM counter ? It would be interesting to have measured the pumice before and after, but I suspect that by now, only 'after' is possible... Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 16:34:04 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id QAA28786; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:32:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:32:09 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20031223083849.00863290@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:38:49 +0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Re: Sharing Damadian's sorrow In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20031222095314.01cb2898@pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"aG-M33.0.h17.9quv_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52716 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: >John Winterflood writes: >>How many WW2 era aircraft even could not recover from a spin? > >All of them could recover, if the pilot was skilled enough... You are probably right - if they had enough height and probably only if their engine was going. This shows that pilot skill and having natural controls should also be an ingredient in controlled flight. I know that being able to steer with my feet and have the throttle in my hand was probably the hardest reflex to learn (or unlearn from being able to drive a car). The joystick on the other hand was perfectly natural. (We learnt to fly without any previous experience by cruising up and down the runway steering with our feet, then doing small in-line hops getting higher and higher, eventually taking it around for a circuit.) >>(Actually this ultralight didn't have true ailerons but used wing >>warping similar to the Wrights!) > >Probably for the same reason: to keep it very small, simple, portable, >and something you can assemble in a shack, on a beach, in December. They >did not pick this design by accident, and their patent was careful to cover >the use of ailerons. Yes it was certainly simple - a couple of pulleys and a wire to pull the trailing edge down - which was just a taut sail. However I think the manufacturer of our craft ended up adding proper ailerons on later models. But with significant dihedral and no cross-winds ailerons are not really necessary. >... model aircraft pilots will tell you the opposite. >>They fly very well indeed with just elevators and ailerons. > >I have heard this. But I do not think full scale conventionally shaped >airplane piloted by people are capable of this. ... I would certainly prefer to do without ailerons, than without rudder provided the aerodynamic design was very stable (read overhead wings and/or large dihedral angle). But if I was very experienced, I suspect I would prefer the opposite except for takeoff and landing. The rudder is mainly used to keep on the runway or avoid trees (and for landing in crosswinds). Once airborne or on a treeless plain, a rudder is not so necessary. Jones Beene asked: >Just out of curiosity, and given that you are a pilot of ultralight >aircraft and should be aware of all the nuances involved in such a >question: which claimant among all of those early aviation pioneers >deserves the honor of being the first to accomplish "controlled" >flight (from the perspective of a pilot) ? I really have never read of early pioneers before the Wrights and really thought they had every claim to being first. But reading about Pearse's accomplishments in detail leaves me full of admiration and astonishment even. What might he have done with a few clever and/or rich buddies for help and encouragement! But I can't help wondering why he didn't bother to add a rudder - it seems as obvious as daylight, particularly the first time he found himself heading for a tree with insufficient power to fly over it! Maybe he thought that would be just too many things to try to control at once. I don't think I actually care much about who was first - it seems a bit of an empty honour, in comparison to the actual accomplishment. So I will leave that argument and hard decision to those who care more about such things! From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 18:30:26 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id SAA11466; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:29:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:29:04 -0800 Message-ID: <001601c3c8fc$724bf440$8557ccd1@MIKEBY3NR533HT> From: "Mike Carrell" To: References: <3.0.6.32.20031223083849.00863290@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Subject: Re: Sharing Damadian's sorrow Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 21:28:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Resent-Message-ID: <"HMN2u.0.6p2.mXwv_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52717 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Jed Rothwell wrote: > >John Winterflood writes: > >>How many WW2 era aircraft even could not recover from a spin? > > > >All of them could recover, if the pilot was skilled enough... > > You are probably right - if they had enough height and probably only > if their engine was going. I'm not sure what the problem is here. My wife (a musician) got her pilot's license in the '50s flying a Piper Cub. One of the things her instructor taught her was how to recover from a spin. On her test, the inspector put the plane into a spin and she recovered. Some of the planes of the era were essentially spin-proof, but the maneuverability was limited. Mike Carrell From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 22 19:15:09 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id TAA07109; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 19:13:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 19:13:38 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 21:13:15 -0600 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: "JNPCo." Subject: *****NEWEST FREE VIDEO NOW POSTED: ENERGY MACHINE IN OPERATION! Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1139973296==_ma============" Resent-Message-ID: <"5w4K62.0.wk1.XBxv_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52718 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --============_-1139973296==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" * * * * * * * * * On Saturday, December 13, 2003, Joseph Newman publicly demonstrated his newest Energy Machine unit in Naples, Florida. The results were fantastic! Joseph Newman demonstrates an electromagnetic energy generation system that "produces greater external energy output than external energy input". SEE IT IN OPERATION FOR YOURSELF LINKED TO THE WEBSITE LISTED BELOW! * * * * * * * * * See the latest video of the NEWMAN ENERGY MACHINE that will turn salt water to fresh water --- power homes, factories, ships, trains, planes, vehicles, and cities --- provide all the world's power supplies and eliminate pollution --- and re-charge its own power system at the same time! The process of going public and into mass world production is now underway. At the top of the website URL provided below, click on the link to the free video of the latest demonstration of this revolutionary technology: http://www.josephnewman.com The video shows the newest 7,000-lb Newman Energy Machine with a 450-lb flywheel and a 1,250-lb rotor physically connected to the shaft of a conventional electric generator that subsequently powers lights, televisions, clocks, etc. Total watts IN: 600 watts. Total watts OUT: 5,000+ watts. During the entire time the system was in operation, the input battery voltage dropped LESS THAN 1/10TH OF A VOLT! This technology can now be immediately implemented to power the world's energy needs and replace ALL conventional energy sources. * * * * * * * * * "I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a PHYSICAL existence in that intermediate space." --- MICHAEL FARADAY "How few understand the PHYSICAL lines of force! They will not see them, yet all the researches on the subject tend to confirm the views I put forth many years since. Thompson of Glasgow seems almost the only one who acknowledges them. He is perhaps the nearest to understanding what I meant. I am content to wait convinced as I am of the truth of my views." --- MICHAEL FARADAY "In speaking of the Energy of the field, however, I wish to be understood LITERALLY. All energy is the same as MECHANICAL ENERGY, whether it exists in the form of motion or in that of elasticity, or in ANY other form. The energy in electromagnetic phenomena is MECHANICAL energy." --- JAMES CLERK MAXWELL "The Theory I propose may ... be called a Theory of the Electromagnetic Field because it has to do with the space in the neighborhood of the electric or magnetic bodies, AND IT MAY BE CALLED A DYNAMICAL THEORY, BECAUSE IT ASSUMES THAT IN THAT SPACE THERE IS MATTER IN MOTION, BY WHICH THE OBSERVED ELECTROMAGNETIC PHENOMENA ARE PRODUCED." --- JAMES CLERK MAXWELL * * * * * * * * * http://www.josephnewman.com --============_-1139973296==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Arial* * *=20 * * * * * * On Saturday, December 13, 2003,=20 Joseph Newman publicly demonstrated=20 his newest Energy Machine unit in Naples, Florida. The results were fantastic! Joseph Newman demonstrates an=20 electromagnetic energy generation system that=20 "produces greater external energy output than external energy input". SEE IT IN OPERATION FOR YOURSELF LINKED TO THE WEBSITE LISTED BELOW! * * * * * * * * * See the latest video of the=20 NEWMAN ENERGY MACHINE=20 that will turn salt water to fresh water ---=20 power homes, factories, ships, trains, planes, vehicles, and cities --- provide all the world's power supplies and eliminate pollution ---=20 and re-charge its own power system at the same time! The process of going public and into mass world production is now underway. At the top of the website URL provided below, click on the link to the free video=20 of the latest demonstration of this revolutionary technology: http://www.josephnewman.com The video shows the newest 7,000-lb Newman Energy Machine with a 450-lb flywheel and a 1,250-lb rotor physically connected to the shaft of a conventional electric generator=20 that subsequently powers lights, televisions, clocks, etc. Total watts IN: 600 watts. Total watts OUT: 5,000+ watts. During the entire time the system was in operation, the input battery voltage dropped LESS THAN 1/10TH OF A VOLT! This technology can now be immediately implemented to power the world's energy needs=20 and replace ALL conventional energy sources. * * * * * * * * * "I cannot conceive curved lines of force=20 without the conditions of a PHYSICAL existence in that intermediate space." =20 0000,0000,FFFF--- MICHAEL FARADAY "How few understand the PHYSICAL lines of force! =20 They will not see them, yet all the researches on the subject=20 tend to confirm the views I put forth many years since. =20 Thompson of Glasgow seems almost the only one who acknowledges them. =20 He is perhaps the nearest to understanding what I meant. =20 I am content to wait convinced as I am of the truth of my views." 0000,0000,FFFF--- MICHAEL FARADAY "In speaking of the Energy of the field, however,=20 I wish to be understood LITERALLY. =20 All energy is the same as MECHANICAL ENERGY,=20 whether it exists in the form of motion or in that of elasticity, or in ANY other form. =20 The energy in electromagnetic phenomena is MECHANICAL energy." 0000,0000,FFFF--- JAMES CLERK MAXWELL "The Theory I propose may ... be called a Theory of the Electromagnetic Field=20 because it has to do with the space in the neighborhood of the electric or magnetic bodies,=20 AND IT MAY BE CALLED A DYNAMICAL THEORY, BECAUSE IT ASSUMES THAT=20 IN THAT SPACE THERE IS MATTER IN MOTION,=20 BY WHICH THE OBSERVED ELECTROMAGNETIC PHENOMENA ARE PRODUCED." =20 0000,0000,FFFF--- JAMES CLERK MAXWELL * * * * * * * * * http://www.josephnewman.com =20
Arial --============_-1139973296==_ma============-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 23 08:19:16 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA03839; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:16:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:16:22 -0800 From: Baronvolsung@aol.com Message-ID: <126.377dbc22.2d19c42e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 11:15:42 EST Subject: Re: New evidence of a life energy update To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: Baronvolsung@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1072196142" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5007 Resent-Message-ID: <"GNa2u2.0.kx.Lf6w_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52719 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1072196142 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have edited, clarified, and added more information to the previous emails that I sent in this email discussion of sensors that can be used to detect human body energies and life energies: There are meters and sensors that can sense and visualize the electrical magnetic, temperature, energetic, and pressure measures in and around a human body down to the atomic and nuclear level to test for voltage, capacitance, heat, energy and pressure differences in the body to indirectly discover the effects on the body of the surrounding environmental scalar potential energy waves, whether sound, sonar, infrared, electric, em, elf, or ultrasonic. You may measure the differences in voltages, capacitance, temperature, energy, and pressures on and around a body over a long term with a series of instruments as listed below: 1. Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imagers posted at http://ww.cis.rit.edu/htbooks/nmr/inside.htm and atomic microscopes posted at http:// www. grayfieldoptical.com /intro2.html connected to a computer can detect the atomic energy spin state and atomic states in a human object as well as the changes in the chemical and biological state of cells in a human object. Photonic and infrared energy states in a human object can also be detected by atomic microscopes, nuclear magnetic resonance scanners, photon emission computed tomography, and Superconductive Quantum Interference Devices (SQUID) where for each human object the magnetic activity may be recorded from a total of 64 points of the skull (32 points from each temporal lobe as defined by a recording reference system which is based on the 10-20 Electrode Placement System. Subatomic energy states and smaller than light wave energy states in a human object can be detected with a negative refraction meter made of negative refractive materieals such as a left-handed composite of tin-plated copper split rings and wires in a circuit board substrate as posted at the Photonics web site at www.photonics.com. Also LaSys Inc. at www.lasysinc.com manufactures a nanotech composite optical material- tiny glass tubes known as microcavities coated with particles of silver about 20 to 30 nanometers in size in a fractal formation- which can amplify light energy by many orders of magnitude by pumping a light laser through the device. There are programs and computer imaging systems that can scan, measure, and image 3 dimensional seismic images of the human body posted at http://www.vaytek.com/VoxBlast.html and 3 dimensional electron microscopic images from a digital CCD color microscopic camera also posted at http://www.vaytek.com/cameras.htm. Intercellular and brain cell communication channels such as photonic, pheromones, emf, and communication molecules can be imaged using "two-photon microscopy" as posted at http://www.cshl.org/public/releases/svoboda112900.html. Dr. William Ross Adey. M.D. has posted many articles on the biological effects of electromagnetic forces and for defining the parameters of the "Adey Window" of activity to describe the cell communication at the physical/atomic level rather than the chemical/molecular level as posted at http://www.raven1/net/adeycv.htm. Standard fiber optic cables and photonic imaging sensors placed in AT& T telephone lines are used by the government and by private corporations in remote sensing to sense, visualize and image objects in homes and in the human body at the cellular and chemical level. Ultrawide band and mixed radio signals as well as photonic light waves can sense objects in homes through walls and skin. Private satellites, Global Positioning Service (GPS), airships, and fiber optic communication sensors and telephone lines can be purchased to remote sense objects at the cellular level and atomic level by connecting the above remote sensing devices to the sensors mentioned in this email and to computer imaging devices. 2. A polygraph, EEG, and gas discharge visualization device posted at www.gdvresearch.com and a gas chromatograph posted at http://www.state.ia.us/government/dps/dci/lab/drugchem/gas_chromatograph.htm. 3. A Thermogram for heat changes in and around the body; 4. A Manometer for pressure changes; 5. An Electromiogram for nerve fiber measures; 6. A Magnetometer used to measure magnetic fields such as Squid (Superconducting Quantum Interference Device) which operates at 5 DegK and can detect alternating magnetic fields as small as 10-^14 telsa, and it can detect small changes in magnetic fields 400m away; 7. A Magnetocardiogram MCG may be used to measure the magnetic fields around the heart. The magnetic field around the heart is about 5 x 10^-11 telsa. A Magnetoencephalogram MEG may be used to measure the magnetic fields around the brain. During the alpha rhythm the magnetic field from the brain is about 1x 10^-13 T. MEG and MCG measure fields resulting from direct currents which do not show up on an EEG or ECG. The difference between the waves crests in EEG measurements can detect the emotions and energies of the human heart pulses. 8. Gravity and force acceleration measurements can be sensed by a miniature capacitor sensor array in 2 or more dimensions and by piezoelectric triaxial accelerometers or accelerometer force transducers. When a seismic mass is attached to the sensitive gauge element in such a way to allow motion along a specific axis, then the force transducer is sensitive to acceleration along the axis. Because the mass is constant, the acceleration is proportional to the force measured by the force transducer. A=F/M. 9. Energies coming from scalar electrical potential waves can be sensed by using scalar wave sensors posted at http://users.rcn.com/zap.dnai/howitzer.htm, and by using static and potential positive electrical sensors such as Van Der Graf static electrical sensors in 2 or dimensions and a monopolar positive electrical sensor. Scalar potential energy waves can also be detected by using Solid-State Parametric Mass Fluctuation Circuits posted at http://www.intalek.com/Papers/PMF-summary.gif. Most scalar potential electrical waves target an object with two separate scalar waves which then create a 2D scalar wave energy hologram in the target. A series of scalar wave 2D holographic images can them be layered over each other to create a 3D holographic energy field around the target object. Scalar potential electrical waves once activated in a target object as static electrical waves can change the magnetic, capacitance, and infrared energy fields around a target object. 10. Some mind control energies targeting an object are sent in series so that two or more sensors need to be set up a few inches away to detect the pulses of energy waves targeting an object in series and at separate locations in time and space. Two energy waves placed at opposite ends of a target can create an energy difference in the target equal to the difference in the wave energies to change the energy frequency and capacitance in the target object. Sensors may be set up to detect changes in the energy frequency and capacitance in a target and also to detect the difference in energy around the target object. Capacitance sensors and theory are available at the following web sites: http://www.ifmefector.com/ifmus/web/capacitive.htm http://www.capacitec.com/ http://physics.mercer.edu/petepag/sens.htm A series of 4 accelerometers or capacitors placed on or around a human body, in the North, South, East and West directions, will detect elf waves smaller than 1hz and gravity waves which are even smaller than elf waves. Wagner research laboratory posted at http://www.chatlink.com/~oedphd/cosmology/gravity.html used accelerometers placed on trees to measure gravity waves changing in trees, to cause the sap to run in different directions based on the trees ability to use gravity waves between branches and leaf formations which match the size of the gravity wave, to affect the changes in the sap. Low frequency waves are miles long, and would be very difficult to detect and deliver to a human target, unless the low frequency wave is encapsulated in a high frequency wave as a carrier wave. There is an article at popular science posted at http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/article/0,12543,351353,00.html which shows how ultrasonic waves can be focused like a flashlight to bounce sound bullets off of walls, and the same technology can be used to carry sound, ultrasound, sonar, holographic, and infrared waves, into the skin and organs of a human target. 11. Some human infrared energies operate at speeds faster than normal photographic cameras so that high speed cameras need to be used to record some human energies. Human infrared energies may be seen with two or more high speed infrared cameras and video cameras placed at opposite angles connected to a computer video input scanner to sense and record in 2D holographic infrared pictures in real time which make up part of the spiritual, mental, holographic, and psychic energies of living organisms. Russian scientists use high speed infrared camera's to record psychic phenomena. The same motion and 3D holographic image technologies used in scanning in a picture of a moving and standing 3D human object can be modified to scan in infrared energies by using infrared cameras at high speeds in place of the ordinary photographic cameras. 12. Most of the human frequencies of the body organs and brain, are from 0 to a few hundred hertz. [ Brain and Body Frequencies, Glossary] posted at http://www.lunarsight.com/freq.htm Information Processing in the Human Body Data is posted at http://vadim./www.media.mit.edu/MAS862/Project.html. Scalar Electricity and Current Electricity Ranges in the Human Body are posted at http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/miscon/ele-map.html. The magnetic energies of the human nervious system are in the current range of 100nA to 100 uA and voltage range of 100mV to 1volt. 13. Many of the surveillance and infrared frequencies used in remote sensing are also in the range of 0 to few hundred hertz and mostly around 9 hz, which is the submarine and GWEN radar tower communication frequencies. Also most of the remote sensing and directed energy frequencies are binary infrared scalar waves, magnetic waves, and holographic media, which are not detectable with ordinary spectrometers which detect only single electric radio waves. The binary infrared and magnetic scalar waves used to create a holographic image or media, that may be directed at a human target from a satellite, stealth airship, submarine, or ground tower, to change their bodily functions may place a binary (or two waves) scalar infrared wave on one side of the head, and also on the other side of the head, to create a difference in frequency and capacitance between both waves, to change the functions of the brain, so that both scalar waves must be measured at the same time on both sides of the head and body, to detect the frequency and capacitance change in between. Also some of the waves come in pulses and the waves must be measured one after the other by two sensors one in front of the other. An ordinary high speed camera or video camera with a simple infrared lens can be used to take pictures of the infrared energies around the body similar to Kirlian photographs, which are affected by most magnetic and infrared mind control and remote sensing infrared scalar waves. The magnetic infrared waves and tesla scalar aether waves are perpendicular to the radio waves. You can also buy an inexpensive spectrometer for about 30 dollars which may detect some of the infrared waves at the following link below. You can also measure the heat and electrical changes in the skin, with thermometers, an EEG that measures magnetic and electric changes, and electric skin sensors. You have to keep a pictorial or measured record on video tape of how the detectable waves change around the body for a period of time, to prove the changes and damages that can affect the body. 14. Human body telekinetic energies are discussed by Dr. Jan Pajak in the article Devices For the Telekinetic Extraction of Energy From the Environment- ISBN 0-9597946-4) which is also posted on the internet for free download. The telekinetic energies are describe by using a model of gravity which is Dipolar rather than monopolar. Only one pole of gravity exists in our universe which can be affected by em energies while the other pole of gravity exists in a parallel set of dimensions which is seperate from ours in a counter world called counter-matter. The laws in the coutner matter world are very different and often the opposite of the laws in our physical universe, for instance the law of least resistance in our universe becomes the law of most resistance in the counter matter universe. By chaning events and objects in the counter matter universe mentally we can also change events in our universe physically to create telekinetic events such as levitation of objects by the human mind. Simple mathematical equations and models of the counter matter universe can be used to visualize the counter matter universe on a computer and compare it to our universe to understand the telekinetic relations ships in objects and events between both universes in detial. 15. A precision economy spectrometer may be purchased at the link below for 27 dollars: http://www.scientificsonline.com/ec/Products/Display.cfm?CategoryID=222325 I have posted plans and schematics for force field technologies to shield the human body from harmfull environmental energies under the links posted below at www.rhfweb.com: [Security Building Design] [Atmospheric Force Field Design Plan 1] [Atmospheric Force Field Desing Plan 2] [Biological, Chemical Warfare Force Field & Sound Proofing Wall Insulation ] [Privacy, Health, & Security Force Field Technologies & Designs] [Secure Gated Community Plans and Designs ] [Secure Private Banking] [Electronic harassment protection information packet] Baron Von Volsung, www.rhfweb.com\baron, Email: www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html President Thomas D. Clark, Email: www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html, Personal Web Page: www.rhfweb.com\personal New Age Production's Inc., www.rhfweb.com\newage Star Haven Community Services, at www.rhfweb.com\sh Radiation Health Foundation Trust at www.rhfweb.com -------------------------------1072196142 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have edited, clarified, and added more information to the previo= us emails that I sent in this email discussion of sensors that can be used t= o detect human body energies and life energies:
 
There are meters and sensors that can sense and visualize the elec= trical magnetic, temperature, energetic, and pressure measures in&= nbsp;and around a human body down to the atomic and nuclear level to te= st for voltage, capacitance, heat, energy and pressure differences= in the body to indirectly discover the effects on the body of the surroundi= ng environmental scalar potential energy waves, whether sound, sonar, i= nfrared, electric, em, elf, or ultrasonic. You may measure the differen= ces in voltages, capacitance, temperature, energy, and pressures on and= around a body over a long term with a series of instruments as listed below= :

1. Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imagers posted at http://ww.cis.rit.edu/htbooks/nmr/inside.htm and atomic=20= microscopes posted at http:// www. grayfieldoptical.com /intro2.html co= nnected to a computer can detect the atomic energy spin state and atomic sta= tes in a human object as well as the changes in the chemical and biolog= ical state of cells in a human object.  Photonic and infrared energy st= ates in a human object can also be detected by atomic microscopes, nuclear m= agnetic resonance scanners, photon emission computed tomography, and Superco= nductive Quantum Interference Devices (SQUID) where for each human object th= e magnetic activity may be recorded from a total of 64 points of the skull (= 32 points from each temporal lobe as defined by a recording reference system= which is based on the 10-20 Electrode Placement System. 
 
Subatomic energy states and smaller than light wave energy states&= nbsp;in a human object can be detected with a negative refraction meter made= of negative refractive materieals such as a left-handed composite of t= in-plated copper split rings and wires in a circuit board substrate as poste= d at the Photonics web site at www.photonics.com.  Also LaSys Inc. at <= A title=3Dhttp://www.lasysinc.com/ href=3D"http://www.lasysinc.com/">www.las= ysinc.com manufactures a nanotech composite optical material- tiny glass= tubes known as microcavities coated with particles of silver about 20 to 30= nanometers in size in a fractal formation- which can amplify light energy b= y many orders of magnitude by pumping a light laser through the device. &nbs= p;
 
There are programs and computer imaging systems that can scan, measure,= and image 3 dimensional seismic images of the human body posted at http://www.vaytek.com/VoxBlast.html and 3 dimensional elect= ron microscopic images from a digital CCD color microscopic camera also post= ed at http://www.vaytek.com/cameras.htm.
 
Intercellular and brain cell communication channels such as photonic, p= heromones, emf, and communication molecules can be imaged using "two-photon=20= microscopy" as posted at http://www.cshl.org/public/releases/svoboda112900.html.  Dr. Wil= liam Ross Adey. M.D. has posted many articles on the biological effects of e= lectromagnetic forces and for defining the parameters of the "Adey Window" o= f activity to describe the cell communication at the physical/atomic level r= ather than the chemical/molecular level as posted at http://www.ra= ven1/net/adeycv.htm.
 
Standard fiber optic cables and photonic imaging sensors placed in= AT& T telephone lines are used by the government and by private corpora= tions in remote sensing to sense, visualize and image objects in homes=20= and in the human body at the cellular and chemical level.  Ultrawi= de band and mixed radio signals as well as photonic light waves can sense ob= jects in homes through walls and skin.
 
Private satellites, Global Positioning Service (GPS), airships, and&nbs= p;fiber optic communication sensors and telephone lines can be purchase= d to remote sense objects at the cellular level and atomic level by connecti= ng the above remote sensing devices to the sensors mentioned in this email a= nd to computer imaging devices.
 
2. A polygraph, EEG, and gas discharge visualization device posted at <= A title=3Dhttp://www.gdvresearch.com/ href=3D"http://www.gdvresearch.com/">w= ww.gdvresearch.com and a gas chromatograph posted at http://www.state.ia.us/government/dps/dci/lab/drugchem/gas_chromatog= raph.htm.
3. A Thermogram for heat changes in and around the body;4. A Manometer for pressure changes;
5. An Electromiogram for ner= ve fiber measures;
6. A Magnetometer used to measure magnetic field= s such as Squid (Superconducting Quantum Interference Device) whic= h operates at 5 DegK and can detect alternating magnetic fields as small as=20= 10-^14 telsa, and it can detect small changes in magnetic fields 400m away;<= /DIV>

7. A Magnetocardiogram MCG may be used to measure the magnetic fiel= ds around the heart. The magnetic field around the heart is about 5 x 10^-11= telsa. A Magnetoencephalogram MEG may be used to measure the magnetic field= s around the brain.  During the alpha rhythm the magnetic field from th= e brain is about 1x 10^-13 T. MEG and MCG measure fields resulting from dire= ct currents which do not show up on an EEG or ECG. The difference between th= e waves crests in EEG measurements can detect the emotions and energies= of the human heart pulses.

8.  Gravity and force acceleration measurements can be sensed=20= by a miniature capacitor sensor array in 2 or more dimensions and by piezoel= ectric triaxial accelerometers or accelerometer force transducers. &nbs= p; When a seismic mass is attached to the sensitive gauge element in such a=20= way to allow motion along a specific axis, then the force transducer is sens= itive to acceleration along the axis.  Because the mass is constant, th= e acceleration is proportional to the force measured by the force transducer= . A=3DF/M.

9. Energies coming from scalar electrical potential waves can be se= nsed by using scalar wave sensors posted at ht= tp://users.rcn.com/zap.dnai/howitzer.htm, and by using static and potent= ial positive electrical sensors such as Van Der Graf static electrical senso= rs in 2 or dimensions and a monopolar positive electrical sensor.  Scal= ar potential energy waves can also be detected by using Solid-State Parametr= ic Mass Fluctuation Circuits posted at h= ttp://www.intalek.com/Papers/PMF-summary.gif. Most scalar potential elec= trical waves target an object with two separate scalar waves which then crea= te a 2D scalar wave energy hologram in the target.  A series of scalar=20= wave 2D holographic images can them be layered over each other to create a 3= D holographic energy field around the target object. Scalar potential electr= ical waves once activated in a target object as static electrical waves can=20= change the magnetic, capacitance, and infrared energy fields around a target= object.

10. Some mind control energies targeting an object are sent in seri= es so that two or more sensors need to be set up a few inches away to detect= the pulses of energy waves targeting an object in series and at separate lo= cations in time and space.   Two energy waves placed at opposite ends o= f a target can create an energy difference in the target equal to the differ= ence in the wave energies to change the energy frequency and capacitance in=20= the target object.  Sensors may be set up to detect changes in the ener= gy frequency and capacitance in a target and also to detect the difference i= n energy around the target object.
 
Capacitance sensors and theory are available at the following web sites= :

http://www.ifmefecto= r.com/ifmus/web/capacitive.htm
http://www.capacitec.com/
http://physics.mercer.edu/petepag/sens.htm
A series of 4 accelerometers or capacitors placed on or around a human=20= body, in the North, South, East and West directions, will detect elf waves s= maller than 1hz and gravity waves which are even smaller than elf waves. Wag= ner research laboratory posted at http://www.chatlink.com/~oedphd/cosmology/gravity.html used=20= accelerometers placed on trees to measure gravity waves changing in trees, t= o cause the sap to run in different directions based on the trees ability to= use gravity waves between branches and leaf formations which match the size= of the gravity wave, to affect the changes in the sap.
Low frequency waves are miles long, and would be very difficult to dete= ct and deliver to a human target, unless the low frequency wave is encapsula= ted in a high frequency wave as a carrier wave. There is an article at popul= ar science posted at
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/article/0,1= 2543,351353,00.html
which shows how ultrasonic waves can be focused l= ike a flashlight to bounce sound bullets off of walls, and the same technolo= gy can be used to carry sound, ultrasound, sonar, holographic, and infrared=20= waves, into the skin and organs of a human target.
11. Some human infrared energies operate at speeds faster than normal p= hotographic cameras so that high speed cameras need to be used to record som= e human energies. Human infrared energies may be seen with two or more high=20= speed infrared cameras and video cameras placed at opposite angles connected= to a computer video input scanner to sense and record in  2D holograph= ic infrared pictures in real time which make up part of the spiritual, menta= l, holographic, and psychic energies of living organisms.  Russian scie= ntists use high speed infrared camera's to record psychic phenomena.  T= he same motion and 3D holographic image technologies used in scanning in a p= icture of a moving and standing 3D human object can be modified to scan in i= nfrared energies by using infrared cameras at high speeds in place of the or= dinary photographic cameras.
 
12. Most of the human frequencies of the body organs and brain, are fro= m 0 to a few hundred hertz.
 
[ Brain and Body Frequencies, Glossary] posted at http://= www.lunarsight.com/freq.htm
Information Processing in the Human Body=20= Data is posted at http://vad= im./www.media.mit.edu/MAS862/Project.html.
Scalar Electricity and Current Electricity Ranges in the Human Bod= y are posted at http://www.eskimo.= com/~billb/miscon/ele-map.html. The magnetic energies of the human nervi= ous system are in the current range of 100nA to 100 uA and voltage range of=20= 100mV to 1volt.
 
13. Many of the surveillance and infrared frequencies used in remote se= nsing are also in the range of 0 to few hundred hertz and mostly around 9 hz= , which is the submarine and GWEN radar tower communication frequencies. &nb= sp;Also most of the remote sensing and directed energy frequencies are binar= y infrared scalar waves, magnetic waves, and holographic media, which are no= t detectable with ordinary spectrometers which detect only single electric r= adio waves.  The binary infrared and magnetic scalar waves used to crea= te a holographic image or media, that may be directed at a human target from= a satellite, stealth airship, submarine, or ground tower, to change their b= odily functions may place a binary (or two waves) scalar infrared wave on on= e side of the head, and also on the other side of the head, to create a diff= erence in frequency and capacitance between both waves, to change the functi= ons of the brain, so that both scalar waves must be measured at the same tim= e on both sides of the head and body, to detect the frequency and capacitanc= e change in between.  Also some of the waves come in pulses and the wav= es must be measured one after the other by two sensors one in front of the o= ther.  An ordinary high speed camera or video camera with a simple infr= ared lens can be used to take pictures of the infrared energies around the b= ody similar to Kirlian photographs, which are affected by most magnetic and=20= infrared mind control and remote sensing infrared scalar waves.  The ma= gnetic infrared waves and tesla scalar aether waves are perpendicular to the= radio waves. You can also buy an inexpensive spectrometer for about 30 doll= ars which may detect some of the infrared waves at the following link below.= You can also measure the heat and electrical changes in the skin, with ther= mometers, an EEG that measures magnetic and electric changes, and electric s= kin sensors. You have to keep a pictorial or measured record on video tape o= f how the detectable waves change around the body for a period of time, to p= rove the changes and damages that can affect the body.
 
14. Human body telekinetic energies are discussed by Dr. Jan Pajak in t= he article Devices For the Telekinetic Extraction of Energy From the Environ= ment- ISBN 0-9597946-4) which is also posted on the internet for free d= ownload. The telekinetic energies are describe by using a model of grav= ity which is Dipolar rather than monopolar.  Only one pole of grav= ity exists in our universe which can be affected by em energies while the ot= her pole of gravity exists in a parallel set of dimensions which is seperate= from ours in a counter world called counter-matter.   The laws in= the coutner matter world are very different and often the opposite of the l= aws in our physical universe, for instance the law of least resistance in ou= r universe becomes the law of most resistance in the counter matter universe= .  By chaning events and objects in the counter matter universe me= ntally we can also change events in our universe physically to create teleki= netic events such as levitation of objects by the human mind.
Simple mathematical equations and models of the counter matter universe= can be used to visualize the counter matter universe on a computer and comp= are it to our universe to understand the telekinetic relations ships in obje= cts and events between both universes in detial.

15. A precision economy spectrometer may be purchased at the link b= elow for 27 dollars:
http://www.scientificsonline.c= om/ec/Products/Display.cfm?CategoryID=3D222325
 
I have posted plans and schematics for force field technologies to shield t= he human body from harmfull environmental energies under the links posted be= low at www.rhfweb.com: 
 
    [Security Building Design]=20

    [Atmospheric Force Field Design Plan 1]= =20

    [Atmospheric Force Field Desing Plan 2]=20

    [Biological, Chemical Warfare Force Field &am= p; Sound Proofing Wall Insulation ]=20

    [Privacy, Health, & Security Force Fiel= d Technologies & Designs]=20

    [Secure Gated Community Plans and Desig= ns ] =20

    [Secure Private Banking]=20

    [Electronic harassment protection information packet]=20

B= aron Von Volsung, www.rhfweb.com\baron, Email: www.rhf= web.com\emailform.html
President Thomas D. Clark,
Email: www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html, Personal Web Page: www.rh= fweb.com\personal
New Age Production's Inc., www.rhfweb.com\newage<= /A>
Star Haven Community Services, at www.rhfweb.com\sh
Radiation Health= Foundation Trust at www.rhfweb.com

-------------------------------1072196142-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 23 08:49:05 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA24272; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:45:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:45:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:44:13 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Second law in the microscopic scale (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"mmFrJ.0.0x5.H47w_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52720 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:19:43 -0800 From: Bernard Cleyet Reply-To: Forum for Physics Educators To: PHYS-L@lists.nau.edu Subject: Second law in the microscopic scale NEW FINDINGS CHALLENGE LAW OF ENTROPY http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2135779.stm From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 23 08:51:34 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA26784; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:49:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:49:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:48:56 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: MOLTEN LAVA in microwave oven In-Reply-To: <009701c3c8da$a2f38580$8837fea9@cpq> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"VvXtp2.0.NY6.y77w_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52721 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 22 Dec 2003, Jones Beene wrote: > Hey BillB, > > Do you have a good radiation monitor or GM counter ? I have one with a 1.5" long tube w/alpha window. ALso a couple of huge blocks of scintillator material from eBay, but I haven't built a counter yet. (For a cheap but ULTRA-hypersensitive radiation detector, get scintillator material off eBay, then add your own photomultiplier. Detect radium watch dials from yards away, supposedly.) > > It would be interesting to have measured the pumice before and after, but I suspect that by now, only 'after' is possible... > > Jones > (((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 23 09:13:20 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id JAA11607; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:11:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:11:09 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031223120339.01cb2970@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 12:11:02 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: LENR-CANR traffic surprisingly high Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"a5-rg.0.Cr2.iS7w_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52722 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: LENR-CANR activity is higher than I expected for the holiday season. It has fallen by about a third. Here are downloads for the last three days: 12/21/03 644 12/22/03 1055 12/23/03 1343 Actually, on a percentage basis, this is about the same as last year: 12/21/02 299 12/22/02 282 12/23/02 182 12/24/02 243 12/25/02 123 The average was around 380 per day last December. Grand total downloads are 357,161. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 23 09:16:57 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id JAA14901; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:15:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:15:17 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031223121319.01cb6490@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 12:15:08 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: LENR-CANR new traffic graphs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"b1Jnv2.0.ce3.aW7w_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52723 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I forgot to mention, I uploaded new graphs here: http://lenr-canr.org/Features.htm#Visitors It looks to me like we have settled down to a steady flow of 8,000 to 10,000 downloads per week. Traffic is not increasing, or declining. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 23 10:53:15 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA18251; Tue, 23 Dec 2003 10:49:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 10:49:51 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: "Vortex" Subject: Radio amateurs handbook online! Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:13:42 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"tTF-B1.0.2T4.Fv8w_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52724 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >From 1922, good stuff! http://www.gutenberg.net/cdproject/cd/etext04/thrdm10ah/thrdm10ah.htm ( is the above URL broken? Well, paste the damn thing together again! ) K. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 24 12:16:11 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id MAA06520; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 12:13:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 12:13:59 -0800 Message-ID: <3FE9F402.9B7292C1@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 12:16:02 -0800 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD472 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vortex Subject: ho ho ho & so on Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"w3a1w3.0.pb1.7EVw_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52725 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dec. 24, 2003 Vortex, Its that time of year. Here's hoping everyone the best of the holidays for whatever reason and an exciting 2004. Yea CF!! -ak- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 24 13:07:37 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id NAA12582; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 13:06:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 13:06:43 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [64.70.24.58] X-Originating-Email: [mgoldes@msn.com] X-Sender: mgoldes@msn.com From: "Mark Goldes" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: ho ho ho & so on Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 13:06:10 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Dec 2003 21:06:11.0438 (UTC) FILETIME=[C22578E0:01C3CA61] Resent-Message-ID: <"BazhH2.0.Y43.Z_Vw_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52726 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Ditto, Ditto! Mark >From: Akira Kawasaki >Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >To: Vortex >Subject: ho ho ho & so on >Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 12:16:02 -0800 > >Dec. 24, 2003 > >Vortex, > >Its that time of year. >Here's hoping everyone the best of the holidays for whatever reason and >an exciting 2004. Yea CF!! > >-ak- > _________________________________________________________________ Check your PC for viruses with the FREE McAfee online computer scan. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 25 09:59:59 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id JAA01638; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:57:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:57:47 -0800 Sender: jack@mail3.centurytel.net Message-ID: <3FEB23C7.6B7BC2AA@centurytel.net> Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 17:52:07 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: global warming & dimming References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="xd" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="xd" Resent-Message-ID: <"FsbJf.0.YP.QKow_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52727 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From: http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1108853,00.html Thursday December 18, 2003 The Guardian ``Goodbye sunshine Each year less light reaches the surface of the Earth. No one is sure what' s causing 'global dimming' - or what it means for the future. In fact most scientists have never heard of it. By David Adam In 1985, a geography researcher called Atsumu Ohmura at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology got the shock of his life. As part of his studies into climate and atmospheric radiation, Ohmura was checking levels of sunlight recorded around Europe when he made an asto nishing discovery. It was too dark. Compared to similar measurements recorded by his predecessors in the 1960s, Ohmura's results suggested that levels of solar radiation striking the Earth's surface had declined by more than 10% in three decades ... It turns out that Ohmura was the first to document a dramatic effect that scientists are now calling "global dimming". Records show that over the past 50 years the average amount of sunlight reaching the ground has gone down by almost 3% a decade. It's too small an effect to see with the naked eye, but it has implications for everything from climate change to so lar power and even the future sustainability of plant photosynthesis. In fact, global dimming ... doesn't even appear in the reports of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) ... "It's an extraordinary thing that for some reason this hasn't penetrated even into the thinking of the people looking at global climate change," says Graham Farquhar, a climate scientist at the Australian National University in Canberra. "It's actually quite a big deal, and I think you'll see a lot more people referring to it." That's not to say that the effect has gone unnoticed. Although Ohmura was the first to report global dimming, he wasn't alone. In fact, the scientific record now shows several other research papers published during the 1990s on the subject, all finding that light levels were falling significantly. Among them they reported that sunshine in Ireland was on the wane, that both the Arctic and the Antarctic were getting darker and that light in Japan, the s upposed land of the rising sun, was actually falling. Most startling of all was the discovery t hat levels of solar radiation reaching parts of the former Soviet Union had gone down almost 20 % between 1960 and 1987. The problem is that most of the climate scientists who saw the reports simply didn't believe them. "It's an uncomfortable one," says Gerald Stanhill, who published many of these early papers and coined the phrase global dimming. "The first reaction has always been that the effect is much too big; I don't believe it and if it's true then why has nobody reported it before?" That began to change in 2001, when Stanhill and his colleague Shabtai Cohen at the Volcanic Centre in Bet Dagan, Israel collected all the available evidence together and proved that, on average, records showed that the amount of solar radiation reaching the Earth's surface had gone down by between 0.23 and 0.32% each year from 1958 to 1992. This forced more scientists to sit up and take notice, though some still refused to accept the change was real, and instead blamed it on inaccurate recording equipment. Solar radiation is measured by seeing how much the side of a black plate warms up when exposed to the sun, compared with its flip side, which is shaded. It's a relatively crude device, and we have no way of proving how accurate measurements made 30 years ago really are." To detect temporal changes you must have very good data otherwise you're just analysing the difference between data retrieval systems," says Ohmura. Stanhill says the dimming effect is much greater than the possible errors (which anyway would make the light levels go up as well as down), but what was really needed was an independent way to prove global dimming was real. Last year Farquhar and his group in Australi a provided it. The 2001 article written by Stanhill and Cohen sparked Farquhar's interest and he made some inquiries. The reaction was not always positive and when he mentioned the idea to one high-ranking climate scientist (whose name he is reluctant to reveal) he was told: "That 's bullshit, Graham. If that was the case then we'd all be freezing to death." But Farquhar had realised that the idea of global dimming could explain one of the most puzzling mysteries of climate science. As the Earth warms, you would expect the rate at which water evaporates to increase. But in fact, study after study using metal pans fil led with water has shown that the rate of evaporation has gone down in recent years. When Farquhar compared evaporation data with the global dimming records he got a perfect match. The reduced evaporation was down to less sunlight shining on the water surface. And while Stanhill and Cohen's 2001 report appeared in a relatively obscure agricultural journal, Farquhar and his colleague Michael Roderick published their solution to the evaporation paradox in the high-profile American magazine Science ... The missing radiation is in the region of visible light and infrared. Radiation like the ultraviolet light increasingly penetrating the leaky ozone layer is not affected ... So what causes global dimming? The first thing to say is that it's nothing to do with changes in the amount of radiation arriving from the sun. Although that varies as the sun's activity rises and falls and the Earth moves closer or further away, the global dimming effect is much, much larger and the opposite of what would be expected given there has been a general increase in overall solar radiation over the past 150 years. *** [THIS SOLAR RADIATION INCREASE IS THUS CONFOUNDED WITH INCREASING CO2 CONCENTRATION.] *** That means something must have happened to the Earth's atmosphere to stop the arriving sunlight penetrating. The few experts who have studied the effect believe it's down to air pollution. Tiny particles of soot or chemical compounds like sulphates reflect sunlight and they also promote the formation of bigger, longer lasting clouds. "The cloudy times are getting darker," says Cohen, at the Volcanic Centre. "If it's cloudy then it's darker, but when it's sunny things haven't changed much." ... "In the northern climate everything becomes light limiting and a reduction in solar radiation becomes a reduction in productivity," Cohen says. "In greenhouses in Holland, the rule of thumb is that a 1% decrease in solar radiation equals a 1% drop in productivity. Because they're light limited they're always very busy cleaning the tops of their greenhouses." ... "If the greenhouse effect causes global dimming then that really changes the perspective," he says. In other words, while it keeps getting warmer it might keep getting darker. "I'm not saying it definitely is that, I'm just raising the question." ...'' Hi All, I thought you might find the above interesting. Merry Christmas, Jack Smith From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Dec 25 17:45:25 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id RAA11103; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 17:44:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 17:44:10 -0800 From: FZNIDARSIC@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 20:43:31 EST Subject: Ball lightning To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_ca.26173c46.2d1cec43_boundary" X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10709 Resent-Message-ID: <"TR5wG3.0.Rj2.g9vw_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52728 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --part1_ca.26173c46.2d1cec43_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_ca.26173c46.2d1cec43_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-yg03.mx.aol.com (rly-yg03.mail.aol.com [172.18.180.99]) by air-yg04.mail.aol.com (v97.14) with ESMTP id MAILINYG44-27f3feb4d0e212; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 15:48:29 -0500 Received: from mia-tri-mail1.tripod.com (mia-tri-mail1.tripod.com [209.202.240.241]) by rly-yg03.mx.aol.com (v97.10) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYG39-27f3feb4d0e212; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 15:48:14 -0500 Received: from sc8-af-fe25.sc8.angelfire.com (proxy-10-124-207-252.mia.lycos.com [10.124.207.252]) by mia-tri-mail1.tripod.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hBPKmDAQ009201 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 15:48:14 -0500 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by sc8-af-fe25.sc8.angelfire.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id hBPKL5U06907; Thu, 25 Dec 2003 15:21:05 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 15:21:05 -0500 Message-Id: <200312252021.hBPKL5U06907@sc8-af-fe25.sc8.angelfire.com> X-Authentication-Warning: sc8-af-fe25.sc8.angelfire.com: nobody set sender to the_form_robot@angelfire.com using -f From: Angelfire Form Mailer To: fznidarsic@aol.com Reply-To: fznidarsic@aol.com Subject: Results From Your Form X-AOL-IP: 209.202.240.241 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (Do not reply to this e-mail. It was generated by the Angelfire servers.) The following data was submitted via your form: 1--ZPT feedback---1: Comment: saw ball lightning w/ witness this past summer in arlington, va. was a very strange experience. one note to pass on about incident that i find curious - as we were approaching the direction of a powerful storm (as evidenced later), i had been looking up through the windshield of my truck at the almost black clouds that marked the edge of the weather front, an orange sphere about the size of a grapefruit floated down towards the sidewalk as i passed by at about 25-30 mph. before hitting the ground it separated into tendrils of energy that dissipated - much like a fizzling firecracker. the break - up happened about 4-6 ft off the ground. although it occurred near a telephone pole, there was no explosion or even a transformer blown, hence the feeling that what we saw was in fact, ball lightning. i guess the one question that i have for you is: is it necessary for a storm, or elements thereof to be present for the creation of this phenomena? or can it happen in less aus! tere circumstances? i suppose the answer to this question would point to certain tendencies for ideal conditions to either duplicate, or at least understand this better. i appreciate the site and your experiments. my father worked on electrical/magnetic stuff with a physicist - dr. edward allard (flir technology fame). since looking through his papers and notes, i have been developing quite an interest in things of this nature. anyway, keep up the great work! Email: michael.longmire@verizon.net Feedback: Select the best match. Realname: michael longmire Training: Open minded with no special training. email_to: fznidarsic@aol.com --part1_ca.26173c46.2d1cec43_boundary-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Dec 26 15:56:17 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id PAA32632; Fri, 26 Dec 2003 15:53:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 15:53:49 -0800 Message-ID: <3FECC8AA.69479E67@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 15:47:54 -0800 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD472 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vortex Subject: [Fwd: WHAT'S NEW Friday, December 26, 2003] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vSQ061.0.lz7.DeCx_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52729 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: WHAT'S NEW Friday, December 26, 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 15:49:09 -0500 From: "What's New" Reply-To: whatsnew@bobpark.org To: Akira Kawasaki WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 26 Dec 03 Washington, DC 1. MARS: COALITION FORCES LAUNCH AN INVASION OF THE RED PLANET. Oblivious to the frantic efforts of earthlings to make contact, Beagle II, a 63-centimeter saucer-shaped British lander, has so far maintained radio silence. Meanwhile, Beagle II's mother ship, the European Space Agency's Mars Express, successfully entered Mars orbit. It is equipped with a long-wavelength radio probe to search for subsurface water. Mars Express joined two American orbiters, Mars Odyssey and Mars Global Explorer. Two American rovers, Spirit and Opportunity, are approaching Mars. They are expected to land in January. Efforts to contact Beagle II will resume later today. The painful vigil is reminiscent of the loss of the Mars Polar Lander in December of 1999 (WN 10 Dec 99). In fact, two-thirds of the missions launched to Mars have failed. This should be put in perspective: no lives have been lost, and robotic missions to Mars cost less than shuttle flights into low-Earth orbit, where they just go in circles. The Mars missions, on the other hand, are searching for extra-terrestrial life, which is perhaps the most exciting quest in science. 2. MAD COW DISEASE: TRUST ME, IT'S NOT JUST COWS THAT ARE MAD. A British Lab confirms that the sick cow in Washington had the disease. After months of seeking an audience, Stanley Prusiner, the UCSF neurologist who was awarded a nobel prize for discovered prions, infectious proteins that cause Mad Cow disease, warned Agriculture Secretary Anne Veneman weeks ago that it was "just a matter of time" before the disease would be found in the U.S. He told her that every sick cow should be tested beginning now, and eventually all cows upon slaughter. It's ironic that discovery of mad cow disease in the U.S. should come just as the demand for beef was soaring as a result of enormously popular high-protein diets, such as the Atkins and South Beach diets. Mad Cow aside, the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine issued a 1985 alert warning that long-term high-protein eating is linked to heart disease, colon cancer, osteoporosis and renal failure. It has been common belief among endurance athletes for decades that a high-protein diet can lead to dehydration as the body seeks to protect the kidneys from the toxic effects of amines, a byproduct of protein metabolism. Dehydration, they argue, is the principal factor in temporary weight loss when on a high-protein diet. 3. AIR POLLUTION: ATTEMPT TO CIRCUMVENT CLEAN AIR ACT IS BLOCKED. When first enacted, the Act grandfathered existing power plants from pollution controls required of new plants, since in time they would be replaced. Wrong. Industry found it cheaper to just rebuild old plants and keep polluting. So Congress rewrote the law to include "upgrades." The Bush administration, however, ruled that upgrades were really just maintenance -- in effect overturning an act of Congress the a federal appeals court ruled. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.aps.org/WN You are currently subscribed to whatsnew as: aki@ix.netcom.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-whatsnew-27231J@lists.apsmsgs.org To subscribe, send a blank e-mail to: From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 27 07:12:52 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id HAA07616; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 07:10:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 07:10:59 -0800 Message-ID: <004c01c3cc8b$b414fa60$1e8fcbc1@pc> From: "Noel Whitney" To: References: <126.377dbc22.2d19c42e@aol.com> Subject: Re: New evidence of a life energy update Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:11:26 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0049_01C3CC8B.B2BDA7C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"RNUsy2.0.qs1.24Qx_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52730 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C3CC8B.B2BDA7C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Baronvolsung ,s very comprhensive coverage on the area of "Life Energy" = commented tpo the effect that a conventional digital videa camera can be = used to monitor Thermal/ Infr red heat by changing the lens system.- i have a JVC model - GR - DVL - 40 - can anyone poimt me in the = direction of such suppliers of required items ?? Any help appreciated. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Baronvolsung@aol.com=20 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com=20 Cc: Baronvolsung@aol.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 4:15 PM Subject: Re: New evidence of a life energy update I have edited, clarified, and added more information to the previous = emails that I sent in this email discussion of sensors that can be used = to detect human body energies and life energies: There are meters and sensors that can sense and visualize the = electrical magnetic, temperature, energetic, and pressure measures in = and around a human body down to the atomic and nuclear level to test for = voltage, capacitance, heat, energy and pressure differences in the body = to indirectly discover the effects on the body of the surrounding = environmental scalar potential energy waves, whether sound, sonar, = infrared, electric, em, elf, or ultrasonic. You may measure the = differences in voltages, capacitance, temperature, energy, and pressures = on and around a body over a long term with a series of instruments as = listed below: 1. Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imagers posted at = http://ww.cis.rit.edu/htbooks/nmr/inside.htm and atomic microscopes = posted at http:// www. grayfieldoptical.com /intro2.html connected to a = computer can detect the atomic energy spin state and atomic states in a = human object as well as the changes in the chemical and biological state = of cells in a human object. Photonic and infrared energy states in a = human object can also be detected by atomic microscopes, nuclear = magnetic resonance scanners, photon emission computed tomography, and = Superconductive Quantum Interference Devices (SQUID) where for each = human object the magnetic activity may be recorded from a total of 64 = points of the skull (32 points from each temporal lobe as defined by a = recording reference system which is based on the 10-20 Electrode = Placement System. =20 Subatomic energy states and smaller than light wave energy states in a = human object can be detected with a negative refraction meter made of = negative refractive materieals such as a left-handed composite of = tin-plated copper split rings and wires in a circuit board substrate as = posted at the Photonics web site at www.photonics.com. Also LaSys Inc. = at www.lasysinc.com manufactures a nanotech composite optical material- = tiny glass tubes known as microcavities coated with particles of silver = about 20 to 30 nanometers in size in a fractal formation- which can = amplify light energy by many orders of magnitude by pumping a light = laser through the device. =20 There are programs and computer imaging systems that can scan, = measure, and image 3 dimensional seismic images of the human body posted = at http://www.vaytek.com/VoxBlast.html and 3 dimensional electron = microscopic images from a digital CCD color microscopic camera also = posted at http://www.vaytek.com/cameras.htm.=20 Intercellular and brain cell communication channels such as photonic, = pheromones, emf, and communication molecules can be imaged using = "two-photon microscopy" as posted at = http://www.cshl.org/public/releases/svoboda112900.html. Dr. William = Ross Adey. M.D. has posted many articles on the biological effects of = electromagnetic forces and for defining the parameters of the "Adey = Window" of activity to describe the cell communication at the = physical/atomic level rather than the chemical/molecular level as posted = at http://www.raven1/net/adeycv.htm. Standard fiber optic cables and photonic imaging sensors placed in AT& = T telephone lines are used by the government and by private corporations = in remote sensing to sense, visualize and image objects in homes and in = the human body at the cellular and chemical level. Ultrawide band and = mixed radio signals as well as photonic light waves can sense objects in = homes through walls and skin.=20 Private satellites, Global Positioning Service (GPS), airships, and = fiber optic communication sensors and telephone lines can be purchased = to remote sense objects at the cellular level and atomic level by = connecting the above remote sensing devices to the sensors mentioned in = this email and to computer imaging devices.=20 2. A polygraph, EEG, and gas discharge visualization device posted at = www.gdvresearch.com and a gas chromatograph posted at = http://www.state.ia.us/government/dps/dci/lab/drugchem/gas_chromatograph.= htm.=20 3. A Thermogram for heat changes in and around the body; 4. A Manometer for pressure changes;=20 5. An Electromiogram for nerve fiber measures;=20 6. A Magnetometer used to measure magnetic fields such as Squid = (Superconducting Quantum Interference Device) which operates at 5 DegK = and can detect alternating magnetic fields as small as 10-^14 telsa, and = it can detect small changes in magnetic fields 400m away; 7. A Magnetocardiogram MCG may be used to measure the magnetic fields = around the heart. The magnetic field around the heart is about 5 x = 10^-11 telsa. A Magnetoencephalogram MEG may be used to measure the = magnetic fields around the brain. During the alpha rhythm the magnetic = field from the brain is about 1x 10^-13 T. MEG and MCG measure fields = resulting from direct currents which do not show up on an EEG or ECG. = The difference between the waves crests in EEG measurements can detect = the emotions and energies of the human heart pulses.=20 8. Gravity and force acceleration measurements can be sensed by a = miniature capacitor sensor array in 2 or more dimensions and by = piezoelectric triaxial accelerometers or accelerometer force = transducers. When a seismic mass is attached to the sensitive gauge = element in such a way to allow motion along a specific axis, then the = force transducer is sensitive to acceleration along the axis. Because = the mass is constant, the acceleration is proportional to the force = measured by the force transducer. A=3DF/M. 9. Energies coming from scalar electrical potential waves can be = sensed by using scalar wave sensors posted at = http://users.rcn.com/zap.dnai/howitzer.htm, and by using static and = potential positive electrical sensors such as Van Der Graf static = electrical sensors in 2 or dimensions and a monopolar positive = electrical sensor. Scalar potential energy waves can also be detected = by using Solid-State Parametric Mass Fluctuation Circuits posted at = http://www.intalek.com/Papers/PMF-summary.gif. Most scalar potential = electrical waves target an object with two separate scalar waves which = then create a 2D scalar wave energy hologram in the target. A series of = scalar wave 2D holographic images can them be layered over each other to = create a 3D holographic energy field around the target object. Scalar = potential electrical waves once activated in a target object as static = electrical waves can change the magnetic, capacitance, and infrared = energy fields around a target object.=20 10. Some mind control energies targeting an object are sent in series = so that two or more sensors need to be set up a few inches away to = detect the pulses of energy waves targeting an object in series and at = separate locations in time and space. Two energy waves placed at = opposite ends of a target can create an energy difference in the target = equal to the difference in the wave energies to change the energy = frequency and capacitance in the target object. Sensors may be set up = to detect changes in the energy frequency and capacitance in a target = and also to detect the difference in energy around the target object.=20 Capacitance sensors and theory are available at the following web = sites: http://www.ifmefector.com/ifmus/web/capacitive.htm http://www.capacitec.com/ http://physics.mercer.edu/petepag/sens.htm A series of 4 accelerometers or capacitors placed on or around a human = body, in the North, South, East and West directions, will detect elf = waves smaller than 1hz and gravity waves which are even smaller than elf = waves. Wagner research laboratory posted at = http://www.chatlink.com/~oedphd/cosmology/gravity.html used = accelerometers placed on trees to measure gravity waves changing in = trees, to cause the sap to run in different directions based on the = trees ability to use gravity waves between branches and leaf formations = which match the size of the gravity wave, to affect the changes in the = sap. Low frequency waves are miles long, and would be very difficult to = detect and deliver to a human target, unless the low frequency wave is = encapsulated in a high frequency wave as a carrier wave. There is an = article at popular science posted at http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/article/0,12543,351353,00.html which shows how ultrasonic waves can be focused like a flashlight to = bounce sound bullets off of walls, and the same technology can be used = to carry sound, ultrasound, sonar, holographic, and infrared waves, into = the skin and organs of a human target. 11. Some human infrared energies operate at speeds faster than normal = photographic cameras so that high speed cameras need to be used to = record some human energies. Human infrared energies may be seen with two = or more high speed infrared cameras and video cameras placed at opposite = angles connected to a computer video input scanner to sense and record = in 2D holographic infrared pictures in real time which make up part of = the spiritual, mental, holographic, and psychic energies of living = organisms. Russian scientists use high speed infrared camera's to = record psychic phenomena. The same motion and 3D holographic image = technologies used in scanning in a picture of a moving and standing 3D = human object can be modified to scan in infrared energies by using = infrared cameras at high speeds in place of the ordinary photographic = cameras.=20 12. Most of the human frequencies of the body organs and brain, are = from 0 to a few hundred hertz. [ Brain and Body Frequencies, Glossary] posted at = http://www.lunarsight.com/freq.htm Information Processing in the Human Body Data is posted at = http://vadim./www.media.mit.edu/MAS862/Project.html. Scalar Electricity and Current Electricity Ranges in the Human Body = are posted at http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/miscon/ele-map.html. The = magnetic energies of the human nervious system are in the current range = of 100nA to 100 uA and voltage range of 100mV to 1volt.=20 13. Many of the surveillance and infrared frequencies used in remote = sensing are also in the range of 0 to few hundred hertz and mostly = around 9 hz, which is the submarine and GWEN radar tower communication = frequencies. Also most of the remote sensing and directed energy = frequencies are binary infrared scalar waves, magnetic waves, and = holographic media, which are not detectable with ordinary spectrometers = which detect only single electric radio waves. The binary infrared and = magnetic scalar waves used to create a holographic image or media, that = may be directed at a human target from a satellite, stealth airship, = submarine, or ground tower, to change their bodily functions may place a = binary (or two waves) scalar infrared wave on one side of the head, and = also on the other side of the head, to create a difference in frequency = and capacitance between both waves, to change the functions of the = brain, so that both scalar waves must be measured at the same time on = both sides of the head and body, to detect the frequency and capacitance = change in between. Also some of the waves come in pulses and the waves = must be measured one after the other by two sensors one in front of the = other. An ordinary high speed camera or video camera with a simple = infrared lens can be used to take pictures of the infrared energies = around the body similar to Kirlian photographs, which are affected by = most magnetic and infrared mind control and remote sensing infrared = scalar waves. The magnetic infrared waves and tesla scalar aether waves = are perpendicular to the radio waves. You can also buy an inexpensive = spectrometer for about 30 dollars which may detect some of the infrared = waves at the following link below. You can also measure the heat and = electrical changes in the skin, with thermometers, an EEG that measures = magnetic and electric changes, and electric skin sensors. You have to = keep a pictorial or measured record on video tape of how the detectable = waves change around the body for a period of time, to prove the changes = and damages that can affect the body.=20 14. Human body telekinetic energies are discussed by Dr. Jan Pajak in = the article Devices For the Telekinetic Extraction of Energy From the = Environment- ISBN 0-9597946-4) which is also posted on the internet for = free download. The telekinetic energies are describe by using a model of = gravity which is Dipolar rather than monopolar. Only one pole of = gravity exists in our universe which can be affected by em energies = while the other pole of gravity exists in a parallel set of dimensions = which is seperate from ours in a counter world called counter-matter. = The laws in the coutner matter world are very different and often the = opposite of the laws in our physical universe, for instance the law of = least resistance in our universe becomes the law of most resistance in = the counter matter universe. By chaning events and objects in the = counter matter universe mentally we can also change events in our = universe physically to create telekinetic events such as levitation of = objects by the human mind.=20 Simple mathematical equations and models of the counter matter = universe can be used to visualize the counter matter universe on a = computer and compare it to our universe to understand the telekinetic = relations ships in objects and events between both universes in detial.=20 15. A precision economy spectrometer may be purchased at the link = below for 27 dollars: = http://www.scientificsonline.com/ec/Products/Display.cfm?CategoryID=3D222= 325 I have posted plans and schematics for force field technologies to = shield the human body from harmfull environmental energies under the = links posted below at www.rhfweb.com:=20 [Security Building Design]=20 [Atmospheric Force Field Design Plan 1]=20 [Atmospheric Force Field Desing Plan 2]=20 [Biological, Chemical Warfare Force Field & Sound Proofing Wall = Insulation ]=20 [Privacy, Health, & Security Force Field Technologies & Designs]=20 [Secure Gated Community Plans and Designs ] =20 [Secure Private Banking]=20 [Electronic harassment protection information packet]=20 Baron Von Volsung, www.rhfweb.com\baron, Email: = www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html President Thomas D. Clark,=20 Email: www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html, Personal Web Page: = www.rhfweb.com\personal New Age Production's Inc., www.rhfweb.com\newage Star Haven Community Services, at www.rhfweb.com\sh Radiation Health Foundation Trust at www.rhfweb.com ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C3CC8B.B2BDA7C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Baronvolsung ,s very comprhensive coverage on the area of "Life = Energy"=20 commented tpo the effect that a conventional digital videa camera can be = used to=20 monitor Thermal/ Infr red heat by changing the lens system.-
i have a JVC model - GR - DVL - 40    - can = anyone=20 poimt me in the direction of such suppliers of required items ??
 
Any help appreciated.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Baronvolsung@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, = 2003 4:15=20 PM
Subject: Re: New evidence of a = life=20 energy update

I have edited, clarified, and added more information to the = previous=20 emails that I sent in this email discussion of sensors that can be = used to=20 detect human body energies and life energies:
 
There are meters and sensors that can sense and visualize = the=20 electrical magnetic, temperature, energetic, and=20 pressure measures in and around a human body down = to the=20 atomic and nuclear level to test for voltage, = capacitance, heat,=20 energy and pressure differences in the body to indirectly discover the = effects=20 on the body of the surrounding environmental scalar = potential energy=20 waves, whether sound, sonar, infrared, electric, em, elf, or = ultrasonic.=20 You may measure the differences in voltages, capacitance, = temperature,=20 energy, and pressures on and around a body over a long term with = a series=20 of instruments as listed below:

1. Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imagers posted at http://ww.cis.rit.e= du/htbooks/nmr/inside.htm and=20 atomic microscopes posted at http:// www. grayfieldoptical.com=20 /intro2.html connected to a computer can detect the atomic energy spin = state=20 and atomic states in a human object as well as the changes in the = chemical and biological state of cells in a human object.  = Photonic and=20 infrared energy states in a human object can also be detected by = atomic=20 microscopes, nuclear magnetic resonance scanners, photon emission = computed=20 tomography, and Superconductive Quantum Interference Devices (SQUID) = where for=20 each human object the magnetic activity may be recorded from a total = of 64=20 points of the skull (32 points from each temporal lobe as defined by a = recording reference system which is based on the 10-20 Electrode = Placement=20 System. 
 
Subatomic energy states and smaller than light wave energy=20 states in a human object can be detected with a negative = refraction meter=20 made of negative refractive materieals such as a = left-handed composite of=20 tin-plated copper split rings and wires in a circuit board substrate = as posted=20 at the Photonics web site at www.photonics.com.  Also = LaSys Inc.=20 at www.lasysinc.com manufactures a = nanotech=20 composite optical material- tiny glass tubes known as microcavities = coated=20 with particles of silver about 20 to 30 nanometers in size in a = fractal=20 formation- which can amplify light energy by many orders of magnitude = by=20 pumping a light laser through the device.  
 
There are programs and computer imaging systems that can scan, = measure,=20 and image 3 dimensional seismic images of the human body posted at http://www.vaytek.com/VoxBla= st.html and=20 3 dimensional electron microscopic images from a digital CCD color = microscopic=20 camera also posted at http://www.vaytek.com/cameras.= htm.=20
 
Intercellular and brain cell communication channels such as = photonic,=20 pheromones, emf, and communication molecules can be imaged using = "two-photon=20 microscopy" as posted at http://ww= w.cshl.org/public/releases/svoboda112900.html. =20 Dr. William Ross Adey. M.D. has posted many articles on the biological = effects=20 of electromagnetic forces and for defining the parameters of the "Adey = Window"=20 of activity to describe the cell communication at the physical/atomic = level=20 rather than the chemical/molecular level as posted at http://www.raven1/net/adeycv.ht= m.
 
Standard fiber optic cables and photonic imaging = sensors placed in=20 AT& T telephone lines are used by the government and by private=20 corporations in remote sensing to sense, visualize and image = objects in=20 homes and in the human body at the cellular and chemical = level. =20 Ultrawide band and mixed radio signals as well as photonic light waves = can=20 sense objects in homes through walls and skin.
 
Private satellites, Global Positioning Service (GPS), airships,=20 and fiber optic communication sensors and telephone = lines can be=20 purchased to remote sense objects at the cellular level and atomic = level by=20 connecting the above remote sensing devices to the sensors mentioned = in this=20 email and to computer imaging devices.
 
2. A polygraph, EEG, and gas discharge visualization device = posted at www.gdvresearch.com and = a gas=20 chromatograph posted at http://www.state.ia.us/government/dps/dci/lab/drugchem/gas_c= hromatograph.htm.=20
3. A Thermogram for heat changes in and around the body;
4.=20 A Manometer for pressure changes;
5. An Electromiogram for=20 nerve fiber measures;
6. A Magnetometer used to measure = magnetic=20 fields such as Squid (Superconducting Quantum Interference = Device)=20 which operates at 5 DegK and can detect alternating magnetic fields as = small=20 as 10-^14 telsa, and it can detect small changes in magnetic fields = 400m=20 away;

7. A Magnetocardiogram MCG may be used to measure the = magnetic fields=20 around the heart. The magnetic field around the heart is about 5 x = 10^-11=20 telsa. A Magnetoencephalogram MEG may be used to measure the magnetic = fields=20 around the brain.  During the alpha rhythm the magnetic field = from the=20 brain is about 1x 10^-13 T. MEG and MCG measure fields resulting from = direct=20 currents which do not show up on an EEG or ECG. The difference between = the=20 waves crests in EEG measurements can detect the emotions and = energies of=20 the human heart pulses.

8.  Gravity and force acceleration measurements can be = sensed by=20 a miniature capacitor sensor array in 2 or more dimensions and by=20 piezoelectric triaxial accelerometers or accelerometer force=20 transducers.   When a seismic mass is attached to the = sensitive=20 gauge element in such a way to allow motion along a specific axis, = then the=20 force transducer is sensitive to acceleration along the axis.  = Because=20 the mass is constant, the acceleration is proportional to the force = measured=20 by the force transducer. A=3DF/M.

9. Energies coming from scalar electrical potential waves can = be=20 sensed by using scalar wave sensors posted at http://users.rcn.com/= zap.dnai/howitzer.htm,=20 and by using static and potential positive electrical sensors such as = Van Der=20 Graf static electrical sensors in 2 or dimensions and a monopolar = positive=20 electrical sensor.  Scalar potential energy waves can also be = detected by=20 using Solid-State Parametric Mass Fluctuation Circuits posted at http://www.intalek= .com/Papers/PMF-summary.gif.=20 Most scalar potential electrical waves target an object with two = separate=20 scalar waves which then create a 2D scalar wave energy hologram in the = target.=20  A series of scalar wave 2D holographic images can them be = layered over=20 each other to create a 3D holographic energy field around the target = object.=20 Scalar potential electrical waves once activated in a target object as = static=20 electrical waves can change the magnetic, capacitance, and infrared = energy=20 fields around a target object.

10. Some mind control energies targeting an object are sent = in series=20 so that two or more sensors need to be set up a few inches away to = detect the=20 pulses of energy waves targeting an object in series and at separate = locations=20 in time and space.   Two energy waves placed at opposite ends of = a target=20 can create an energy difference in the target equal to the difference = in the=20 wave energies to change the energy frequency and capacitance in the = target=20 object.  Sensors may be set up to detect changes in the energy = frequency=20 and capacitance in a target and also to detect the difference in = energy around=20 the target object.
 
Capacitance sensors and theory are available at the following web = sites:
A series of 4 accelerometers or capacitors placed on or around a = human=20 body, in the North, South, East and West directions, will detect elf = waves=20 smaller than 1hz and gravity waves which are even smaller than elf = waves.=20 Wagner research laboratory posted at http://ww= w.chatlink.com/~oedphd/cosmology/gravity.html=20 used accelerometers placed on trees to measure gravity waves changing = in=20 trees, to cause the sap to run in different directions based on the = trees=20 ability to use gravity waves between branches and leaf formations = which match=20 the size of the gravity wave, to affect the changes in the = sap.
Low frequency waves are miles long, and would be very difficult = to detect=20 and deliver to a human target, unless the low frequency wave is = encapsulated=20 in a high frequency wave as a carrier wave. There is an article at = popular=20 science posted at
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/article/0,12543,351353,00.html
which=20 shows how ultrasonic waves can be focused like a flashlight to bounce = sound=20 bullets off of walls, and the same technology can be used to carry = sound,=20 ultrasound, sonar, holographic, and infrared waves, into the skin and = organs=20 of a human target.
11. Some human infrared energies operate at speeds faster than = normal=20 photographic cameras so that high speed cameras need to be used to = record some=20 human energies. Human infrared energies may be seen with two or more = high=20 speed infrared cameras and video cameras placed at opposite angles = connected=20 to a computer video input scanner to sense and record in  2D = holographic=20 infrared pictures in real time which make up part of the spiritual, = mental,=20 holographic, and psychic energies of living organisms.  Russian=20 scientists use high speed infrared camera's to record psychic = phenomena.=20  The same motion and 3D holographic image technologies used in = scanning=20 in a picture of a moving and standing 3D human object can be modified = to scan=20 in infrared energies by using infrared cameras at high speeds in place = of the=20 ordinary photographic cameras.
 
12. Most of the human frequencies of the body organs and brain, = are from=20 0 to a few hundred hertz.
 
[ Brain and Body Frequencies, Glossary] posted at http://www.lunarsight.com/fre= q.htm
Information=20 Processing in the Human Body Data is posted at http://vadim= ./www.media.mit.edu/MAS862/Project.html.
Scalar Electricity and Current Electricity Ranges in the = Human Body=20 are posted at http://www.eski= mo.com/~billb/miscon/ele-map.html.=20 The magnetic energies of the human nervious system are in the current = range of=20 100nA to 100 uA and voltage range of 100mV to 1volt.
 
13. Many of the surveillance and infrared frequencies used in = remote=20 sensing are also in the range of 0 to few hundred hertz and mostly = around 9=20 hz, which is the submarine and GWEN radar tower communication = frequencies.=20  Also most of the remote sensing and directed energy frequencies = are=20 binary infrared scalar waves, magnetic waves, and holographic media, = which are=20 not detectable with ordinary spectrometers which detect only single = electric=20 radio waves.  The binary infrared and magnetic scalar waves used = to=20 create a holographic image or media, that may be directed at a human = target=20 from a satellite, stealth airship, submarine, or ground tower, to = change their=20 bodily functions may place a binary (or two waves) scalar infrared = wave on one=20 side of the head, and also on the other side of the head, to create a=20 difference in frequency and capacitance between both waves, to change = the=20 functions of the brain, so that both scalar waves must be measured at = the same=20 time on both sides of the head and body, to detect the frequency and=20 capacitance change in between.  Also some of the waves come in = pulses and=20 the waves must be measured one after the other by two sensors one in = front of=20 the other.  An ordinary high speed camera or video camera with a = simple=20 infrared lens can be used to take pictures of the infrared energies = around the=20 body similar to Kirlian photographs, which are affected by most = magnetic and=20 infrared mind control and remote sensing infrared scalar waves.  = The=20 magnetic infrared waves and tesla scalar aether waves are = perpendicular to the=20 radio waves. You can also buy an inexpensive spectrometer for about 30 = dollars=20 which may detect some of the infrared waves at the following link = below. You=20 can also measure the heat and electrical changes in the skin, with=20 thermometers, an EEG that measures magnetic and electric changes, and = electric=20 skin sensors. You have to keep a pictorial or measured record on video = tape of=20 how the detectable waves change around the body for a period of time, = to prove=20 the changes and damages that can affect the body.
 
14. Human body telekinetic energies are discussed by Dr. Jan = Pajak in the=20 article Devices For the Telekinetic Extraction of Energy From the = Environment-=20 ISBN 0-9597946-4) which is also posted on the internet for free = download.=20 The telekinetic energies are describe by using a model of gravity = which=20 is Dipolar rather than monopolar.  Only one pole of gravity = exists=20 in our universe which can be affected by em energies while the other = pole of=20 gravity exists in a parallel set of dimensions which is seperate from = ours in=20 a counter world called counter-matter.   The laws in the = coutner=20 matter world are very different and often the opposite of the laws in = our=20 physical universe, for instance the law of least resistance in our = universe=20 becomes the law of most resistance in the counter matter = universe.  By=20 chaning events and objects in the counter matter universe = mentally we can=20 also change events in our universe physically to create telekinetic = events=20 such as levitation of objects by the human mind.
Simple mathematical equations and models of the counter matter = universe=20 can be used to visualize the counter matter universe on a computer and = compare=20 it to our universe to understand the telekinetic relations ships in = objects=20 and events between both universes in detial.

15. A precision economy spectrometer may be purchased at the = link=20 below for 27 dollars:
http://www.scientificsonline.com/ec/Products/Display.cfm?Cat= egoryID=3D222325
 
I have=20 posted plans and schematics for force field technologies to shield the = human=20 body from harmfull environmental energies under the links posted below = at www.rhfweb.com: 
 
    [Security Building = Design]=20

    [Atmospheric Force Field = Design Plan=20 1]=20

    [Atmospheric Force Field = Desing=20 Plan 2]=20

    [Biological, Chemical = Warfare Force=20 Field & Sound Proofing Wall Insulation ]=20

    [Privacy, Health, & = Security=20 Force Field Technologies & Designs]=20

    [Secure Gated Community Plans = and=20 Designs ] =20

    [Secure Private Banking]=20

    [Electronic harassment = protection information = packet]=20

Baron Von=20 Volsung, www.rhfweb.com\baron, Email: = www.rhfweb.com\emailform.ht= ml
President=20 Thomas D. Clark,
Email: www.rhfweb.com\emailform.ht= ml,=20 Personal Web Page: www.rhfweb.com\personal
Ne= w Age=20 Production's Inc., www.rhfweb.com\newage
Star = Haven=20 Community Services, at www.rhfweb.com\sh
Radiation = Health=20 Foundation Trust at www.rhfweb.com

------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C3CC8B.B2BDA7C0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 27 07:15:04 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id HAA10079; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 07:14:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 07:14:03 -0800 Message-ID: <005b01c3cc8c$2b830380$1e8fcbc1@pc> From: "Noel Whitney" To: Subject: WFC Water Fuel Cell & Stan Meyer Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:14:48 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0058_01C3CC8C.2B1E4E40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"bCUdH2.0.RT2.x6Qx_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52731 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C3CC8C.2B1E4E40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Have recently been approched by Charles Holbrook who says he is aquiring = Meyers technology -=20 Has anyone heard of the revival of this matter ?? Any developments worth anything in this area ?? Comments appreciated. Best Regards to all on vortex for a great new year. _______________________________________________________ Noel D. Whitney Quantum Leap Limited 52 Watson Road, Killiney, Co Dublin, Ireland. Tel: 00 353 1 2854626 why not visit our website at: www.quantumleap.ie ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C3CC8C.2B1E4E40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Have recently been approched by Charles = Holbrook=20 who says he is aquiring Meyers technology -
Has anyone heard of the revival of this = matter=20 ??
Any developments worth anything in this = area=20 ??
 
Comments appreciated.
 
Best Regards to all on vortex for a = great new=20 year.
_______________________________________________________
Noel = D.=20 Whitney
Quantum Leap Limited
52 Watson Road,
Killiney,
Co=20 Dublin,
Ireland.
Tel: 00 353 1 2854626
why not visit our = website at: www.quantumleap.ie
 ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C3CC8C.2B1E4E40-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 27 11:46:53 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id LAA08400; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:45:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:45:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:20:02 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New evidence of a life energy update In-Reply-To: <004c01c3cc8b$b414fa60$1e8fcbc1@pc> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id LAA08344 Resent-Message-ID: <"UEvEm3.0.832.B5Ux_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52732 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 27 Dec 2003, Noel Whitney wrote: > Baronvolsung ,s very comprhensive coverage on the area of "Life Energy" > commented tpo the effect that a conventional digital videa camera can be > used to monitor Thermal/ Infr red heat by changing the lens system.- i > have a JVC model - GR - DVL - 40 - can anyone poimt me in the direction > of such suppliers of required items ?? Nope, cheap cameras cannot see thermal IR. Well, they can see a dim glow if the object's temperature is 600F degrees! Try using a visible-block filter made from two layers each of Primary Red filter and Congo Blue filter (theatrical lighting "gel" filters bought from suppliers such as Rosco Inc. or Lee Inc.) Humans can see in the near-IR (700-800nM) if they wear welding goggles equipped with visible-blocking filters. See: IR goggles for under $10 http://amasci.com/amateur/irgogl.html Note: these only function in bright sunlight. > > Any help appreciated. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Baronvolsung@aol.com > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Cc: Baronvolsung@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 4:15 PM > Subject: Re: New evidence of a life energy update > > > I have edited, clarified, and added more information to the previous emails that I sent in this email discussion of sensors that can be used to detect human body energies and life energies: > > There are meters and sensors that can sense and visualize the electrical magnetic, temperature, energetic, and pressure measures in and around a human body down to the atomic and nuclear level to test for voltage, capacitance, heat, energy and pressure differences in the body to indirectly discover the effects on the body of the surrounding environmental scalar potential energy waves, whether sound, sonar, infrared, electric, em, elf, or ultrasonic. You may measure the differences in voltages, capacitance, temperature, energy, and pressures on and around a body over a long term with a series of instruments as listed below: > > > 1. Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imagers posted at http://ww.cis.rit.edu/htbooks/nmr/inside.htm and atomic microscopes posted at http:// www. grayfieldoptical.com /intro2.html connected to a computer can detect the atomic energy spin state and atomic states in a human object as well as the changes in the chemical and biological state of cells in a human object. Photonic and infrared energy states in a human object can also be detected by atomic microscopes, nuclear magnetic resonance scanners, photon emission computed tomography, and Superconductive Quantum Interference Devices (SQUID) where for each human object the magnetic activity may be recorded from a total of 64 points of the skull (32 points from each temporal lobe as defined by a recording reference system which is based on the 10-20 Electrode Placement System. > > Subatomic energy states and smaller than light wave energy states in a human object can be detected with a negative refraction meter made of negative refractive materieals such as a left-handed composite of tin-plated copper split rings and wires in a circuit board substrate as posted at the Photonics web site at www.photonics.com. Also LaSys Inc. at www.lasysinc.com manufactures a nanotech composite optical material- tiny glass tubes known as microcavities coated with particles of silver about 20 to 30 nanometers in size in a fractal formation- which can amplify light energy by many orders of magnitude by pumping a light laser through the device. > > There are programs and computer imaging systems that can scan, measure, and image 3 dimensional seismic images of the human body posted at http://www.vaytek.com/VoxBlast.html and 3 dimensional electron microscopic images from a digital CCD color microscopic camera also posted at http://www.vaytek.com/cameras.htm. > > Intercellular and brain cell communication channels such as photonic, pheromones, emf, and communication molecules can be imaged using "two-photon microscopy" as posted at http://www.cshl.org/public/releases/svoboda112900.html. Dr. William Ross Adey. M.D. has posted many articles on the biological effects of electromagnetic forces and for defining the parameters of the "Adey Window" of activity to describe the cell communication at the physical/atomic level rather than the chemical/molecular level as posted at http://www.raven1/net/adeycv.htm. > > Standard fiber optic cables and photonic imaging sensors placed in AT& T telephone lines are used by the government and by private corporations in remote sensing to sense, visualize and image objects in homes and in the human body at the cellular and chemical level. Ultrawide band and mixed radio signals as well as photonic light waves can sense objects in homes through walls and skin. > > Private satellites, Global Positioning Service (GPS), airships, and fiber optic communication sensors and telephone lines can be purchased to remote sense objects at the cellular level and atomic level by connecting the above remote sensing devices to the sensors mentioned in this email and to computer imaging devices. > > 2. A polygraph, EEG, and gas discharge visualization device posted at www.gdvresearch.com and a gas chromatograph posted at http://www.state.ia.us/government/dps/dci/lab/drugchem/gas_chromatograph.htm. > 3. A Thermogram for heat changes in and around the body; > 4. A Manometer for pressure changes; > 5. An Electromiogram for nerve fiber measures; > 6. A Magnetometer used to measure magnetic fields such as Squid (Superconducting Quantum Interference Device) which operates at 5 DegK and can detect alternating magnetic fields as small as 10-^14 telsa, and it can detect small changes in magnetic fields 400m away; > > 7. A Magnetocardiogram MCG may be used to measure the magnetic fields around the heart. The magnetic field around the heart is about 5 x 10^-11 telsa. A Magnetoencephalogram MEG may be used to measure the magnetic fields around the brain. During the alpha rhythm the magnetic field from the brain is about 1x 10^-13 T. MEG and MCG measure fields resulting from direct currents which do not show up on an EEG or ECG. The difference between the waves crests in EEG measurements can detect the emotions and energies of the human heart pulses. > > 8. Gravity and force acceleration measurements can be sensed by a miniature capacitor sensor array in 2 or more dimensions and by piezoelectric triaxial accelerometers or accelerometer force transducers. When a seismic mass is attached to the sensitive gauge element in such a way to allow motion along a specific axis, then the force transducer is sensitive to acceleration along the axis. Because the mass is constant, the acceleration is proportional to the force measured by the force transducer. A=F/M. > > 9. Energies coming from scalar electrical potential waves can be sensed by using scalar wave sensors posted at http://users.rcn.com/zap.dnai/howitzer.htm, and by using static and potential positive electrical sensors such as Van Der Graf static electrical sensors in 2 or dimensions and a monopolar positive electrical sensor. Scalar potential energy waves can also be detected by using Solid-State Parametric Mass Fluctuation Circuits posted at http://www.intalek.com/Papers/PMF-summary.gif. Most scalar potential electrical waves target an object with two separate scalar waves which then create a 2D scalar wave energy hologram in the target. A series of scalar wave 2D holographic images can them be layered over each other to create a 3D holographic energy field around the target object. Scalar potential electrical waves once activated in a target object as static electrical waves can change the magnetic, capacitance, and infrared energy fields around a target object. > > 10. Some mind control energies targeting an object are sent in series so that two or more sensors need to be set up a few inches away to detect the pulses of energy waves targeting an object in series and at separate locations in time and space. Two energy waves placed at opposite ends of a target can create an energy difference in the target equal to the difference in the wave energies to change the energy frequency and capacitance in the target object. Sensors may be set up to detect changes in the energy frequency and capacitance in a target and also to detect the difference in energy around the target object. > > Capacitance sensors and theory are available at the following web sites: > > http://www.ifmefector.com/ifmus/web/capacitive.htm > http://www.capacitec.com/ > http://physics.mercer.edu/petepag/sens.htm > > A series of 4 accelerometers or capacitors placed on or around a human body, in the North, South, East and West directions, will detect elf waves smaller than 1hz and gravity waves which are even smaller than elf waves. Wagner research laboratory posted at http://www.chatlink.com/~oedphd/cosmology/gravity.html used accelerometers placed on trees to measure gravity waves changing in trees, to cause the sap to run in different directions based on the trees ability to use gravity waves between branches and leaf formations which match the size of the gravity wave, to affect the changes in the sap. > > Low frequency waves are miles long, and would be very difficult to detect and deliver to a human target, unless the low frequency wave is encapsulated in a high frequency wave as a carrier wave. There is an article at popular science posted at > http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/article/0,12543,351353,00.html > which shows how ultrasonic waves can be focused like a flashlight to bounce sound bullets off of walls, and the same technology can be used to carry sound, ultrasound, sonar, holographic, and infrared waves, into the skin and organs of a human target. > > 11. Some human infrared energies operate at speeds faster than normal photographic cameras so that high speed cameras need to be used to record some human energies. Human infrared energies may be seen with two or more high speed infrared cameras and video cameras placed at opposite angles connected to a computer video input scanner to sense and record in 2D holographic infrared pictures in real time which make up part of the spiritual, mental, holographic, and psychic energies of living organisms. Russian scientists use high speed infrared camera's to record psychic phenomena. The same motion and 3D holographic image technologies used in scanning in a picture of a moving and standing 3D human object can be modified to scan in infrared energies by using infrared cameras at high speeds in place of the ordinary photographic cameras. > > 12. Most of the human frequencies of the body organs and brain, are from 0 to a few hundred hertz. > > > [ Brain and Body Frequencies, Glossary] posted at http://www.lunarsight.com/freq.htm > Information Processing in the Human Body Data is posted at http://vadim./www.media.mit.edu/MAS862/Project.html. > Scalar Electricity and Current Electricity Ranges in the Human Body are posted at http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/miscon/ele-map.html. The magnetic energies of the human nervious system are in the current range of 100nA to 100 uA and voltage range of 100mV to 1volt. > > 13. Many of the surveillance and infrared frequencies used in remote sensing are also in the range of 0 to few hundred hertz and mostly around 9 hz, which is the submarine and GWEN radar tower communication frequencies. Also most of the remote sensing and directed energy frequencies are binary infrared scalar waves, magnetic waves, and holographic media, which are not detectable with ordinary spectrometers which detect only single electric radio waves. The binary infrared and magnetic scalar waves used to create a holographic image or media, that may be directed at a human target from a satellite, stealth airship, submarine, or ground tower, to change their bodily functions may place a binary (or two waves) scalar infrared wave on one side of the head, and also on the other side of the head, to create a difference in frequency and capacitance between both waves, to change the functions of the brain, so that both scalar waves must be measured at the same time on both sides of the head and body, to detect the frequency and capacitance change in between. Also some of the waves come in pulses and the waves must be measured one after the other by two sensors one in front of the other. An ordinary high speed camera or video camera with a simple infrared lens can be used to take pictures of the infrared energies around the body similar to Kirlian photographs, which are affected by most magnetic and infrared mind control and remote sensing infrared scalar waves. The magnetic infrared waves and tesla scalar aether waves are perpendicular to the radio waves. You can also buy an inexpensive spectrometer for about 30 dollars which may detect some of the infrared waves at the following link below. You can also measure the heat and electrical changes in the skin, with thermometers, an EEG that measures magnetic and electric changes, and electric skin sensors. You have to keep a pictorial or measured record on video tape of how the detectable waves change around the body for a period of time, to prove the changes and d > > 14. Human body telekinetic energies are discussed by Dr. Jan Pajak in the article Devices For the Telekinetic Extraction of Energy From the Environment- ISBN 0-9597946-4) which is also posted on the internet for free download. The telekinetic energies are describe by using a model of gravity which is Dipolar rather than monopolar. Only one pole of gravity exists in our universe which can be affected by em energies while the other pole of gravity exists in a parallel set of dimensions which is seperate from ours in a counter world called counter-matter. The laws in the coutner matter world are very different and often the opposite of the laws in our physical universe, for instance the law of least resistance in our universe becomes the law of most resistance in the counter matter universe. By chaning events and objects in the counter matter universe mentally we can also change events in our universe physically to create telekinetic events such as levitation of objects by the human mind. > Simple mathematical equations and models of the counter matter universe can be used to visualize the counter matter universe on a computer and compare it to our universe to understand the telekinetic relations ships in objects and events between both universes in detial. > > 15. A precision economy spectrometer may be purchased at the link below for 27 dollars: > http://www.scientificsonline.com/ec/Products/Display.cfm?CategoryID=222325 > > I have posted plans and schematics for force field technologies to shield the human body from harmfull environmental energies under the links posted below at www.rhfweb.com: > > [Security Building Design] > [Atmospheric Force Field Design Plan 1] > > [Atmospheric Force Field Desing Plan 2] > > [Biological, Chemical Warfare Force Field & Sound Proofing Wall Insulation ] > > [Privacy, Health, & Security Force Field Technologies & Designs] > > [Secure Gated Community Plans and Designs ] > > [Secure Private Banking] > > [Electronic harassment protection information packet] > > Baron Von Volsung, www.rhfweb.com\baron, Email: www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html > President Thomas D. Clark, > Email: www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html, Personal Web Page: www.rhfweb.com\personal > New Age Production's Inc., www.rhfweb.com\newage > Star Haven Community Services, at www.rhfweb.com\sh > Radiation Health Foundation Trust at www.rhfweb.com > > > (((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Dec 27 15:50:35 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id PAA08706; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:46:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:46:19 -0800 From: Baronvolsung@aol.com Message-ID: <1a5.1db79df4.2d1f73a7@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:45:43 EST Subject: Re: New evidence of a life energy update To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, quantum@iol.ie CC: Baronvolsung@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1072568743" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5007 Resent-Message-ID: <"_g2IP2.0.z72.BdXx_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52733 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A -------------------------------1072568743 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/27/2003 10:12:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, quantum@iol.ie writes: Baronvolsung ,s very comprhensive coverage on the area of "Life Energy" commented tpo the effect that a conventional digital videa camera can be used to monitor Thermal/ Infr red heat by changing the lens system.- i have a JVC model - GR - DVL - 40 - can anyone poimt me in the direction of such suppliers of required items ?? Thank you for the comments. I did forget to mention that you need to use an infrared lens placed over the camera and you need to speed up the camera time frame and shutter speed by using high speed film, a high speed shutter, or a high speed digital camera. Digital cameras only record digital information and not analogue so that digital camera's may miss some information. You may want to use an ordinary infrared video camera since it is analogue as is used in security and hunting infrared cameras. Video camera's can be connected to computers just a digital cameras can. If you use two or more infrared video camera's placed 90 degree's apart with a laser tracking system as are used in motion scanners, you can record holographic images of infrared energies around a human body to save the infrared and photonic holographic images of human energies on a computer in holographic image format. Government documents in the public library since 1973 shows that Nasa has done a great deal of research on holographic sound image formats from sonar and that many classified military government computers use holographic memory systems presently to save information in holographic formats. Most of the human feelings, emotions and thoughts are saved in holographic infrared and photonic energies that radiate around the human body as an infrared aura. It would be very easy to save holographic images of infrared feelings and memories on a computer if we knew which frequency range and intensity range to view and save per person; and those same computer saved holographic infrared images and feelings could be broadcasted back onto other persons or into computer generated virtual reality worlds to communicate information or to artificially feel emotions and thoughts. Here below are a few companies that sell infrared camera and video equipment: Surveillance camera and Video Recording Infrared Night Vision Camera www.pinecomputer.com FJW Optical Systems, Inc. at http://www.fjwopticalsystems.com/ Infrared CCTV Cameras Watch in Total Darkness Video Surveillance Specialties www.pelikancam.com Infrared (IR) Cameras Thermal Imaging & Active IR CCTV for Security, Industrial, R&D etc. www.cantronic. Infrared Camera Center Electrophysics 1-20 um camera line InSb, MCT, InGaAs, Uncooled electrophysics.com Indigo Systems IR Cameras For PPM, Industrial, R&D, military & surveillance applications. www.indigosystems.com Infrared Video Camera Find Exactly What You Need - Contact Suppliers & Search Catalogs www.globalspec.com Baron Von Volsung, www.rhfweb.com\baron, Email: www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html President Thomas D. Clark, Email: www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html, Personal Web Page: www.rhfweb.com\personal New Age Production's Inc., www.rhfweb.com\newage Star Haven Community Services, at www.rhfweb.com\sh Radiation Health Foundation Trust at www.rhfweb.com -------------------------------1072568743 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 12/27/2003 10:12:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, quantu= m@iol.ie writes:
Baronvolsung ,s very comprhensive coverage=20= on the area of "Life Energy" commented tpo the effect that a conventional di= gital videa camera can be used to monitor Thermal/ Infr red heat by changing= the lens system.-
i have a JVC model - GR - DVL - 40&nbs= p;   - can anyone poimt me in the direction of such suppliers of r= equired items ??
Thank you for the comments.  I did forget to mention that you need= to use an infrared lens placed over the camera and you need to speed u= p the camera time frame and shutter speed by using high speed film, a h= igh speed shutter, or a high speed digital camera.   Digital=20= cameras only record digital information and not analogue so that digital cam= era's may miss some information.  You may want to use an ordinary infra= red video camera since it is analogue as is used in security and huntin= g infrared cameras.  Video camera's can be connected to computers just=20= a digital cameras can. 
 
If you use two or more infrared video camera's placed 90 degree's=20= apart with a laser tracking system as are used in motion scanners, you can r= ecord holographic images of infrared energies around a human body to save th= e infrared and photonic holographic images of human energies on a computer i= n holographic image format.   Government documents in the public l= ibrary since 1973 shows that Nasa has done a great deal of research on holog= raphic sound image formats from sonar and that many classified military gove= rnment computers use holographic memory systems presently to save informatio= n in holographic formats.  
 
Most of the human feelings, emotions and thoughts are saved in holograp= hic infrared and photonic energies that radiate around the human body as an=20= infrared aura.  It would be very easy to save holographic images o= f infrared feelings and memories on a computer if we knew which frequen= cy range and intensity range to view and save per person; and those same com= puter saved holographic infrared images and feelings could be broadcasted ba= ck onto other persons or into computer generated virtual reality worlds= to communicate information or to artificially feel emotions and thoughts. <= /DIV>
 
Here below are a few companies that sell infrared camera and video equi= pment:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Baron Von Volsung, www.rhfweb.com\baron, Email: w= ww.rhfweb.com\emailform.html
President Thomas D. Clark,
Email: www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html, Personal Web Page: = www.rhfweb.com\personal
New Age Production's Inc., www.rhfweb.com\n= ewage
Star Haven Community Services, at www.rhfweb.com\sh
Radiation=20= Health Foundation Trust at www.rhfweb.com
-------------------------------1072568743-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 28 08:56:41 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA27887; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 08:54:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 08:54:52 -0800 From: "explorecraft" To: Subject: Infrared camera (was: New evidence of a life energy update) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 23:54:01 +0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - lester.switchfusion.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - eskimo.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - explorecraft.com Resent-Message-ID: <"XyTj53.0.Zp6.Rhmx_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52734 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: If you care to trash a cheap usb camera, as I did, you can come close, but you need one that has low light capablity. I used an Acer, but it has an early chip unusable for IR. check out: http://www.lava.net/~kirill/qcir.html http://www.x-raycameras.com/how_work.htm http://sunflower.bio.indiana.edu/~rhangart/quickcaminfo/quickcammod.html still shopping for that perfect usb to rip apart... > -----Original Message----- > From: William Beaty [mailto:billb@eskimo.com] > Sent: Sunday, 2003 December 28 02:20 > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: New evidence of a life energy update > > > On Sat, 27 Dec 2003, Noel Whitney wrote: > > > Baronvolsung ,s very comprhensive coverage on the area of "Life Energy" > > commented tpo the effect that a conventional digital videa camera can be > > used to monitor Thermal/ Infr red heat by changing the lens system.- i > > have a JVC model - GR - DVL - 40 - can anyone poimt me in the direction > > of such suppliers of required items ?? > > Nope, cheap cameras cannot see thermal IR. Well, they can see a dim glow > if the object's temperature is 600F degrees! Try using a visible-block > filter made from two layers each of Primary Red filter and Congo Blue > filter (theatrical lighting "gel" filters bought from suppliers such as > Rosco Inc. or Lee Inc.) > > Humans can see in the near-IR (700-800nM) if they wear welding goggles > equipped with visible-blocking filters. See: > > IR goggles for under $10 > http://amasci.com/amateur/irgogl.html > > Note: these only function in bright sunlight. > > > > > > > Any help appreciated. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Baronvolsung@aol.com > > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > > Cc: Baronvolsung@aol.com > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 4:15 PM > > Subject: Re: New evidence of a life energy update > > > > > > I have edited, clarified, and added more information to the > previous emails that I sent in this email discussion of sensors > that can be used to detect human body energies and life energies: > > > > There are meters and sensors that can sense and visualize the > electrical magnetic, temperature, energetic, and pressure > measures in and around a human body down to the atomic and > nuclear level to test for voltage, capacitance, heat, energy and > pressure differences in the body to indirectly discover the > effects on the body of the surrounding environmental scalar > potential energy waves, whether sound, sonar, infrared, electric, > em, elf, or ultrasonic. You may measure the differences in > voltages, capacitance, temperature, energy, and pressures on and > around a body over a long term with a series of instruments as > listed below: > > > > > > 1. Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imagers posted at > http://ww.cis.rit.edu/htbooks/nmr/inside.htm and atomic > microscopes posted at http:// www. grayfieldoptical.com > /intro2.html connected to a computer can detect the atomic energy > spin state and atomic states in a human object as well as the > changes in the chemical and biological state of cells in a human > object. Photonic and infrared energy states in a human object > can also be detected by atomic microscopes, nuclear magnetic > resonance scanners, photon emission computed tomography, and > Superconductive Quantum Interference Devices (SQUID) where for > each human object the magnetic activity may be recorded from a > total of 64 points of the skull (32 points from each temporal > lobe as defined by a recording reference system which is based on > the 10-20 Electrode Placement System. > > > > Subatomic energy states and smaller than light wave energy > states in a human object can be detected with a negative > refraction meter made of negative refractive materieals such as a > left-handed composite of tin-plated copper split rings and wires > in a circuit board substrate as posted at the Photonics web site > at www.photonics.com. Also LaSys Inc. at www.lasysinc.com > manufactures a nanotech composite optical material- tiny glass > tubes known as microcavities coated with particles of silver > about 20 to 30 nanometers in size in a fractal formation- which > can amplify light energy by many orders of magnitude by pumping a > light laser through the device. > > > > There are programs and computer imaging systems that can > scan, measure, and image 3 dimensional seismic images of the > human body posted at http://www.vaytek.com/VoxBlast.html and 3 > dimensional electron microscopic images from a digital CCD color > microscopic camera also posted at http://www.vaytek.com/cameras.htm. > > > > Intercellular and brain cell communication channels such as > photonic, pheromones, emf, and communication molecules can be > imaged using "two-photon microscopy" as posted at > http://www.cshl.org/public/releases/svoboda112900.html. Dr. > William Ross Adey. M.D. has posted many articles on the > biological effects of electromagnetic forces and for defining the > parameters of the "Adey Window" of activity to describe the cell > communication at the physical/atomic level rather than the > chemical/molecular level as posted at http://www.raven1/net/adeycv.htm. > > > > Standard fiber optic cables and photonic imaging sensors > placed in AT& T telephone lines are used by the government and by > private corporations in remote sensing to sense, visualize and > image objects in homes and in the human body at the cellular and > chemical level. Ultrawide band and mixed radio signals as well > as photonic light waves can sense objects in homes through walls and skin. > > > > Private satellites, Global Positioning Service (GPS), > airships, and fiber optic communication sensors and telephone > lines can be purchased to remote sense objects at the cellular > level and atomic level by connecting the above remote sensing > devices to the sensors mentioned in this email and to computer > imaging devices. > > > > 2. A polygraph, EEG, and gas discharge visualization device > posted at www.gdvresearch.com and a gas chromatograph posted at > http://www.state.ia.us/government/dps/dci/lab/drugchem/gas_chromat > ograph.htm. > > 3. A Thermogram for heat changes in and around the body; > > 4. A Manometer for pressure changes; > > 5. An Electromiogram for nerve fiber measures; > > 6. A Magnetometer used to measure magnetic fields such as > Squid (Superconducting Quantum Interference Device) which > operates at 5 DegK and can detect alternating magnetic fields as > small as 10-^14 telsa, and it can detect small changes in > magnetic fields 400m away; > > > > 7. A Magnetocardiogram MCG may be used to measure the > magnetic fields around the heart. The magnetic field around the > heart is about 5 x 10^-11 telsa. A Magnetoencephalogram MEG may > be used to measure the magnetic fields around the brain. During > the alpha rhythm the magnetic field from the brain is about 1x > 10^-13 T. MEG and MCG measure fields resulting from direct > currents which do not show up on an EEG or ECG. The difference > between the waves crests in EEG measurements can detect the > emotions and energies of the human heart pulses. > > > > 8. Gravity and force acceleration measurements can be sensed > by a miniature capacitor sensor array in 2 or more dimensions and > by piezoelectric triaxial accelerometers or accelerometer force > transducers. When a seismic mass is attached to the sensitive > gauge element in such a way to allow motion along a specific > axis, then the force transducer is sensitive to acceleration > along the axis. Because the mass is constant, the acceleration > is proportional to the force measured by the force transducer. A=F/M. > > > > 9. Energies coming from scalar electrical potential waves can > be sensed by using scalar wave sensors posted at > http://users.rcn.com/zap.dnai/howitzer.htm, and by using static > and potential positive electrical sensors such as Van Der Graf > static electrical sensors in 2 or dimensions and a monopolar > positive electrical sensor. Scalar potential energy waves can > also be detected by using Solid-State Parametric Mass Fluctuation > Circuits posted at http://www.intalek.com/Papers/PMF-summary.gif. > Most scalar potential electrical waves target an object with two > separate scalar waves which then create a 2D scalar wave energy > hologram in the target. A series of scalar wave 2D holographic > images can them be layered over each other to create a 3D > holographic energy field around the target object. Scalar > potential electrical waves once activated in a target object as > static electrical waves can change the magnetic, capacitance, and > infrared energy fields around a target object. > > > > 10. Some mind control energies targeting an object are sent > in series so that two or more sensors need to be set up a few > inches away to detect the pulses of energy waves targeting an > object in series and at separate locations in time and space. > Two energy waves placed at opposite ends of a target can create > an energy difference in the target equal to the difference in the > wave energies to change the energy frequency and capacitance in > the target object. Sensors may be set up to detect changes in > the energy frequency and capacitance in a target and also to > detect the difference in energy around the target object. > > > > Capacitance sensors and theory are available at the following > web sites: > > > > http://www.ifmefector.com/ifmus/web/capacitive.htm > > http://www.capacitec.com/ > > http://physics.mercer.edu/petepag/sens.htm > > > > A series of 4 accelerometers or capacitors placed on or > around a human body, in the North, South, East and West > directions, will detect elf waves smaller than 1hz and gravity > waves which are even smaller than elf waves. Wagner research > laboratory posted at > http://www.chatlink.com/~oedphd/cosmology/gravity.html used > accelerometers placed on trees to measure gravity waves changing > in trees, to cause the sap to run in different directions based > on the trees ability to use gravity waves between branches and > leaf formations which match the size of the gravity wave, to > affect the changes in the sap. > > > > Low frequency waves are miles long, and would be very > difficult to detect and deliver to a human target, unless the low > frequency wave is encapsulated in a high frequency wave as a > carrier wave. There is an article at popular science posted at > > http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/article/0,12543,351353,00.html > > which shows how ultrasonic waves can be focused like a > flashlight to bounce sound bullets off of walls, and the same > technology can be used to carry sound, ultrasound, sonar, > holographic, and infrared waves, into the skin and organs of a > human target. > > > > 11. Some human infrared energies operate at speeds faster > than normal photographic cameras so that high speed cameras need > to be used to record some human energies. Human infrared energies > may be seen with two or more high speed infrared cameras and > video cameras placed at opposite angles connected to a computer > video input scanner to sense and record in 2D holographic > infrared pictures in real time which make up part of the > spiritual, mental, holographic, and psychic energies of living > organisms. Russian scientists use high speed infrared camera's > to record psychic phenomena. The same motion and 3D holographic > image technologies used in scanning in a picture of a moving and > standing 3D human object can be modified to scan in infrared > energies by using infrared cameras at high speeds in place of the > ordinary photographic cameras. > > > > 12. Most of the human frequencies of the body organs and > brain, are from 0 to a few hundred hertz. > > > > > > [ Brain and Body Frequencies, Glossary] posted at > http://www.lunarsight.com/freq.htm > > Information Processing in the Human Body Data is posted at > http://vadim./www.media.mit.edu/MAS862/Project.html. > > Scalar Electricity and Current Electricity Ranges in the > Human Body are posted at > http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/miscon/ele-map.html. The magnetic > energies of the human nervious system are in the current range of > 100nA to 100 uA and voltage range of 100mV to 1volt. > > > > 13. Many of the surveillance and infrared frequencies used in > remote sensing are also in the range of 0 to few hundred hertz > and mostly around 9 hz, which is the submarine and GWEN radar > tower communication frequencies. Also most of the remote sensing > and directed energy frequencies are binary infrared scalar waves, > magnetic waves, and holographic media, which are not detectable > with ordinary spectrometers which detect only single electric > radio waves. The binary infrared and magnetic scalar waves used > to create a holographic image or media, that may be directed at a > human target from a satellite, stealth airship, submarine, or > ground tower, to change their bodily functions may place a binary > (or two waves) scalar infrared wave on one side of the head, and > also on the other side of the head, to create a difference in > frequency and capacitance between both waves, to change the > functions of the brain, so that both scalar waves must be > measured at the same time on both side! > s of the head and body, to detect the frequency and capacitance > change in between. Also some of the waves come in pulses and the > waves must be measured one after the other by two sensors one in > front of the other. An ordinary high speed camera or video > camera with a simple infrared lens can be used to take pictures > of the infrared energies around the body similar to Kirlian > photographs, which are affected by most magnetic and infrared > mind control and remote sensing infrared scalar waves. The > magnetic infrared waves and tesla scalar aether waves are > perpendicular to the radio waves. You can also buy an inexpensive > spectrometer for about 30 dollars which may detect some of the > infrared waves at the following link below. You can also measure > the heat and electrical changes in the skin, with thermometers, > an EEG that measures magnetic and electric changes, and electric > skin sensors. You have to keep a pictorial or measured record on > video tape of how the detectable waves chang! > e around the body for a period of time, to prove the changes and d > > > > 14. Human body telekinetic energies are discussed by Dr. Jan > Pajak in the article Devices For the Telekinetic Extraction of > Energy From the Environment- ISBN 0-9597946-4) which is also > posted on the internet for free download. The telekinetic > energies are describe by using a model of gravity which is > Dipolar rather than monopolar. Only one pole of gravity exists > in our universe which can be affected by em energies while the > other pole of gravity exists in a parallel set of dimensions > which is seperate from ours in a counter world called > counter-matter. The laws in the coutner matter world are very > different and often the opposite of the laws in our physical > universe, for instance the law of least resistance in our > universe becomes the law of most resistance in the counter matter > universe. By chaning events and objects in the counter matter > universe mentally we can also change events in our universe > physically to create telekinetic events such as levitation of objects b! > y the human mind. > > Simple mathematical equations and models of the counter > matter universe can be used to visualize the counter matter > universe on a computer and compare it to our universe to > understand the telekinetic relations ships in objects and events > between both universes in detial. > > > > 15. A precision economy spectrometer may be purchased at the > link below for 27 dollars: > > > http://www.scientificsonline.com/ec/Products/Display.cfm?CategoryID=222325 > > > > I have posted plans and schematics for force field > technologies to shield the human body from harmfull environmental > energies under the links posted below at www.rhfweb.com: > > > > [Security Building Design] > > [Atmospheric Force Field Design Plan 1] > > > > [Atmospheric Force Field Desing Plan 2] > > > > [Biological, Chemical Warfare Force Field & Sound > Proofing Wall Insulation ] > > > > [Privacy, Health, & Security Force Field Technologies & Designs] > > > > [Secure Gated Community Plans and Designs ] > > > > [Secure Private Banking] > > > > [Electronic harassment protection information packet] > > > > Baron Von Volsung, www.rhfweb.com\baron, Email: > www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html > > President Thomas D. Clark, > > Email: www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html, Personal Web Page: www.rhfweb.com\personal > New Age Production's Inc., www.rhfweb.com\newage > Star Haven Community Services, at www.rhfweb.com\sh > Radiation Health Foundation Trust at www.rhfweb.com > > > (((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 28 22:51:41 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id WAA19413; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:50:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:50:45 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3FEB23C7.6B7BC2AA@centurytel.net> References: <3FEB23C7.6B7BC2AA@centurytel.net> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 00:50:40 -0600 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: thomas malloy Subject: Re: global warming & dimming Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-DCC-CPI-Metrics: Clear 1161; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Resent-Message-ID: <"4EaEg1.0.rk4.2xyx_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52735 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Wow! That was an interesting article. I don't know if you people saw my previous posts regarding the work of James McCanney. He claims that the large number of Sunspots result from what he believes are rocks which are coming into the solar system in a direction such that they can only be seen from the southern hemisphere. I suppose this would mean that they are coming from a direction which is orthogonal to the direction of rotation of the planets. McCanney's rock hypothesis is at variance with the dirty snowball model of the nature of comets. McCanney goes on to contend that coincident with the rocks striking the Sun, there is a resulting Sunspot. Then there is the report from www.space.com which says that the Sun's energy output is increasing. This at a time when the solar cycle is at a minimum. On rereading the article I noticed that aerosols and other atmospheric concemants could account for the observed reduction in light. With respect to planetary warming, one can only speculate what will happen when the atmosphere clears up. I also noted with interest Gerald Stanhill of the Volcani Centre in Bet Dugan Israel. Given his interest in the subject, perhaps he will have something to say. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Dec 28 22:53:03 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA10302; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:51:42 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:51:42 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3FEB23C7.6B7BC2AA@centurytel.net> References: <3FEB23C7.6B7BC2AA@centurytel.net> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 00:51:30 -0600 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: thomas malloy Subject: Prime numbers, nuclear structure and radon Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-DCC-CPI-Metrics: Clear 1161; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Resent-Message-ID: <"TaoTu2.0.vW2.wxyx_"@mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52736 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I was listening to a radio program shortly after the discovery of the new prime number. The host wanted to know if there were any practical applications for primes. Someone pointed out encryption. Then someone mentioned that they have applications in understanding nuclear structure. I'm just wondering if any of you people know anything about this. I have another question to post to all of you and Ed Storms in particular. Suppose that I have a source of radon. Could I use it in a LENR reactor to generate energy? Richard C Hoagland had to move out of his house last spring because of the amount of radon in his water supply. It would seem to me that if you had two cisterns. You fill one cistern, then heat it up and drive the radon off. This while using the water out of the other cistern. Any comments on this plan, and other possible uses for radon, would be appreciated. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 13:23:07 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id NAA24733; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:19:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:19:21 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031229160700.01cb22f0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:19:25 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: OFF TOPIC That was me, officer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"G0cBa.0.O26.Of9y_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52737 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Here is a story rom CNN.com: "Small plane enters LaGuardia airspace, circles Statue of Liberty Monday, December 29, 2003 Posted: 10:27 AM EST (1527 GMT) NEW YORK (AP) -- Despite the city's high security level and national terrorism warning, a small plane was able to enter LaGuardia Airport airspace without permission, fly along the East River and circle the Statue of Liberty . . ." I did that. My daughter got me the latest version of Flight Simulator for Christmas, and I flew all around Manhattan. I did not realize the simulator is now so realistic you can be arrested for using it. . . . Actually, in the latest Flight Simulator from Microsoft, the Statue of Liberty and all of the gov't buildings in Washington, D.C. have been removed. I presume this is in response to 9/11. It is kind of creepy. Looking around the web, I find there is a cottage industry of companies and individuals who make add-on products for the Simulator, including amazingly detailed scenery. This one appears to include the Statue of Liberty: http://www.megascenery.com/title-ny.htm It has more detail, and it is more realistic than the Microsoft version. Here is one with U.K. scenery, based on a photographic survey taken from 5000 feet: http://www.glide-slope.com/vfreasoenphs.html www.getmapping.com. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 14:41:29 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id OAA18854; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:39:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:39:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:39:31 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: quantum@iol.ie, Subject: Re: New evidence of a life energy update In-Reply-To: <1a5.1db79df4.2d1f73a7@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-mRP33.0.Yc4.qqAy_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52738 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 Baronvolsung@aol.com wrote: > Thank you for the comments. I did forget to mention that you need to use an > infrared lens placed over the camera and you need to speed up the camera time > frame and shutter speed by using high speed film, a high speed shutter, or a > high speed digital camera. Digital cameras only record digital information > and not analogue so that digital camera's may miss some information. You may > want to use an ordinary infrared video camera since it is analogue as is used in > security and hunting infrared cameras. Video camera's can be connected to > computers just a digital cameras can. Huh? Have you tried this, or are you passing on rumors? Cheap digital cameras and even IR security cameras cannot see human body IR at all. If you have any evidence that they can do this, I'd like to see it, since it would have many interesting hobbyist uses. Cheap cameras can't see in total darkness either, but need either some starlight or an IR spotlight. Starlight is not human body infrared emissions. What you want is a thermal scanner. The cheapest ones are around $1500. If anyone can modify a normal (inexpensive) camera so it can see human body heat in total darkness, that would be VERY interesting. (((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Dec 29 15:00:18 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id OAA32235; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:58:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:58:48 -0800 From: Baronvolsung@aol.com Message-ID: <9.1f6fc622.2d220b7e@aol.com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:58:06 EST Subject: Re: New evidence of a life energy update To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1072738686" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5007 Resent-Message-ID: <"ljY8_.0.at7.d6By_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52739 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: -------------------------------1072738686 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/29/2003 5:41:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, billb@eskimo.com writes: What you want is a thermal scanner. The cheapest ones are around $1500. Thank you for the advice and corrections. Baron Von Volsung, www.rhfweb.com\baron, Email: www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html President Thomas D. Clark, Email: www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html, Personal Web Page: www.rhfweb.com\personal New Age Production's Inc., www.rhfweb.com\newage Star Haven Community Services, at www.rhfweb.com\sh Radiation Health Foundation Trust at www.rhfweb.com -------------------------------1072738686 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 12/29/2003 5:41:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, billb@e= skimo.com writes:
What you want is a thermal scanner.  The=20= cheapest ones are around $1500.
Thank you for the advice and corrections.
 

Baron Von Volsung, www.rhfweb.com\baron, Email: w= ww.rhfweb.com\emailform.html
President Thomas D. Clark,
Email: www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html, Personal Web Page: = www.rhfweb.com\personal
New Age Production's Inc., www.rhfweb.com\n= ewage
Star Haven Community Services, at www.rhfweb.com\sh
Radiation=20= Health Foundation Trust at www.rhfweb.com
-------------------------------1072738686-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 10:37:10 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA01493; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:35:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:35:38 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031230133502.00b13738@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:35:30 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: OFF TOPIC The Gettysburg Powerpoint Presentation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"FlIYP2.0.BN.vLSy_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52740 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: See: http://www.norvig.com/Gettysburg/ - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 30 10:41:50 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA04876; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:39:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:39:21 -0800 Message-ID: <410-2200312230183918691@mindspring.com> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: jedrothwell@mindspring.com X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2004.1.42.0 (Windows) From: "Jed Rothwell" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: OFF TOPIC The Gettysburg Powerpoint Presentation Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:39:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 25e7688170aa9857b054f8d56408d260416dc04816f3191cf9928ebbe1bb5a0998a251ebe495d7824c7ddc8d290830f3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Resent-Message-ID: <"4S-In.0.2C1.OPSy_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52741 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I meant: http://www.norvig.com/Gettysburg/ - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 05:08:01 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id FAA24084; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 05:06:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 05:06:28 -0800 Message-ID: <003301c3cf96$7d1b6fe0$0d11b83f@computer> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Vacuum Kerr Effect on Neutrinos? Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 06:06:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9405cb3a711eccd53f191b744021da5bf7d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Resent-Message-ID: <"JUtVv3.0.Bu5.Kdiy_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52742 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Might it be possible that high Electric and/or Magnetic field gradients effect/change the permittivity/permeability (index of refraction) of the vacuum (or a material) i.e., the Kerr, Faraday & Pockels Effects: http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlux/hv/eo.htm enough to change the properties of a neutrino (it's oscillations?) such that some of the ~ 7.0e10 neutrinos/cm^2 per second solar neutrino flux can have orders of magnitude increase in interaction cross-section? neutrino + Carbon-14 --> Nitrogen-14 (stable) etc. Could this have something to do to "explain" Roy Hammack's (also Barker and others) work on Radioactivity:? http://old.jccc.net/~rhammack/section01.html BTW, TiO2 (rutile) has an index of refraction of ~ 3.0 and Fe3O4 (magnetite) comes in at around 2.4 which is comparable to diamond. Spacecraft propulsion using indigenous neutrinos? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 06:13:57 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id GAA04710; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 06:11:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 06:11:15 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [64.70.24.58] X-Originating-Email: [mgoldes@msn.com] X-Sender: mgoldes@msn.com From: "Mark Goldes" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Why God Never Received Tenure at Any University Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 06:10:41 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Dec 2003 14:10:42.0120 (UTC) FILETIME=[E001AC80:01C3CFA7] Resent-Message-ID: <"I9liy3.0.X91.2ajy_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52743 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: 1. He had only one major publication. 2. It was in Hebrew. 3. It had no references. 4. It wasn't published in a referred journal. 5. Some doubt He wrote it Himself. 6. He may have created the world, but what has He done since? 7. The scientific community can't replicate His results. 8. He never got permission from the ethics board to use human subjects. 9. When one experiment went awry, He tried to cover it up by drowning the subjects. 10. His office hours were irregular and sometimes held on a mountaintop. 11. He expelled his first two students. 12. He rarely came to class and just told students: "Read the book." Happy New Year:) _________________________________________________________________ Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work — and yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 07:32:42 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id HAA26536; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 07:29:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 07:29:39 -0800 Message-ID: <20031231152905.82360.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 07:29:05 -0800 (PST) From: Jones Beene Subject: Re: Vacuum Kerr Effect on Neutrinos? To: vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <003301c3cf96$7d1b6fe0$0d11b83f@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"OoPgy.0.UU6.Yjky_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52744 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --- Frederick Sparber wrote: > Might it be possible that high Electric and/or > Magnetic field gradients effect/change > the permittivity/permeability (index of refraction) of the vacuum (or a material) Another possibility that would explain how permittiviity can be changed by, and/or mutually interact with, a flux of minimally interacting particles even in a hard vacuum: Dirac's theory requires every passing charge to create a ripple in the fabric of space - i.e. to be surrounded by the induced opposite charged ends of electron-positron pairs from a hidden 'sea'... and neutrinos have a vestige of charge, it seems. 'epos' ... Dirac called this fabric But 'epos' are arguably one and the same as the aether, or at least one hierarchical layer of aether ... Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 08:33:20 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id IAA05244; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 08:32:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 08:32:07 -0800 Message-ID: <009b01c3cfb3$359a34e0$0d11b83f@computer> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <20031231152905.82360.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Vacuum Kerr Effect on Neutrinos? Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:31:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9402001a820d8f33a8cbad07c56e3cc6dbd350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Resent-Message-ID: <"XZ_CB3.0.pH1.7ely_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52745 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jones Beene" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 9:29 AM Subject: Re: Vacuum Kerr Effect on Neutrinos? Hi Jones, Do you think the Americium in your smoke detector will change decay rate sitting close to the CRT of your TV or Monitor? Or that soon to be obsolete CRT will show some thrust due to interaction with the neutrino sea ? IOW, the change in the speed-of-light (delta c) in the region between the electrodes changes the speed/momentum (delta mc) of the neutrinos as they enter that region (delta c = 1/(delta u* delta e)^1/2 thus transferring momentum to the electrodes regardless of their lack of charge. No? Frederick > > --- Frederick Sparber wrote: > > Might it be possible that high Electric and/or > > Magnetic field gradients effect/change > > the permittivity/permeability (index of refraction) > of the vacuum (or a material) > > > Another possibility that would explain how > permittiviity can be changed by, and/or mutually > interact with, a flux of minimally interacting > particles even in a hard vacuum: Dirac's theory > requires every passing charge to create a ripple in > the fabric of space - i.e. to be surrounded by the > induced opposite charged ends of electron-positron > pairs from a hidden 'sea'... and neutrinos have a > vestige of charge, it seems. > > 'epos' ... Dirac called this fabric > > But 'epos' are arguably one and the same as the > aether, or at least one hierarchical layer of aether > ... > > Jones > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 13:16:02 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id NAA30322; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:15:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:15:13 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20031231161349.01cb1c30@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 16:15:09 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: ICCF10 paper from Energetics Technologies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"ci-jE3.0.kP7.Wnpy_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52746 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This company has been doing many different types of CF experiments: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/DardikIintensific.pdf - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Dec 31 18:56:24 2003 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id SAA12280; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 18:53:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 18:53:29 -0800 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20031231185826.0a86a3e8@mail.dlsi.net> X-Sender: stevek@mail.dlsi.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 18:59:46 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steve Krivit Subject: Cold Fusion on Canadian Radio Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"ZlikH.0.o_2.fkuy_"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52747 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.radio.cbc.ca/programs/quirks/archives/03-04/dec13.html In one corner: Parks In the other corner: McKubre, Hagelstein and Storms