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Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 19:05:37 -0800 (PST)
From: marc k <geek..._at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] Re: Usefullness of portable-bodyworn noisegenerators.
To: TSCM-L2006_at_googlegroups.com
In-Reply-To: <1173408449.683346.78400_at_30g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
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cont..._at_yahoo.co.uk wrote:=20
Hi Mark,
But my 30 $ sound software will notch-out any tone at the flip of a
switch
if there is another tone...i filter that out in the next go.
if there is another one i filter that also in the next go.
Ofcourse you can=B4t continue with that...since you will have nothing
left in the end.
Even a varying frequency could be followed and notched i suppose.
But interesting idea that is...so why not take your suggestion but
instead
of a single freq,dual freq,various frequencies separate the 2
ultrasounds with
as many frequncies as possible...wich would be NOISE !
In practice i would have to generate:
One 30 khz ultrasound tone
and
One 30 khz ultrasound tone...frequency-modulated with random pink
noise
According to your idea i would not hear nothing but the mic in the bug
will hear the difference wich is the pink noise.
Will that work ?
--------------------------
I believe it would!
-------------------------
Also...
Will the ultrasound generator not do the same as the mic....at the
very
beginning of all of this ?
..meaning will the ultrasound emitting transducer not
also produce a tone at the difference of both frequencies ?
When i feed a ultrasound-transducer with 2 ultrasounds having a
difference of 1 khz...will that transducer not also emit a 1 khz
sound ?
if that is true..then there is no cone of silence but a 1 khz tone !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It would, except you don't use 1 transducer-you use one for each frequency.
If you tried to use a SINGLE transducer, then, indeed you would probably he=
ar the beat note
I guess if you put the ultrasonic + pink noise on one transducer, and a pla=
in ultrasonic signal on a second transducer, all should be well(try to keep=
the 2 transducers apart for best results, although even if they are in clo=
se proximity, it should still work(what I'm concerned about is the transduc=
ers self-resonating, and producing a sound)-If this happens, you might have=
to shield one from the other(I suspect that pointing them opposite directi=
ons will do it)
contranl
On 8 mrt, 21:25, marc k wrote:
> A better way might be the old "cone of silence" method-2 ultra sonic(at a=
t least above normal hearing frequencies) signals at the same time, with fr=
equencies about 1 Khz apart.
> Your ears will not hear it, but most microphones will, so they will pick =
up a 1 Khz beat note.
> This would work even better with maybe 5-6 frequencies, or one that sweep=
s around a bit(either would make it tougher to "notch out", of otherwise fi=
lter out the noise.
>
> The only possible problem I see, is that hearing aids will pick it up too=
.
>
> co..._at_yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>
> .
>
> Here=B4s another question from your online idiot...i=B4m pretty shure
> i won=B4t get a usefull answer...but that doesn=B4t matter since i=B4m
> actually
> talking to myself...while i=B4m doing that i usually find the answer
> myself.
>
> I=B4m thinking of having a small personal noisegenerator wich i would
> always
> carry with me...it would be easy to build something like that.
>
> What about the usefullness of a such a portable/bodyworn
> noisegenerator
> wich purpose would be to make it at least more difficult to bug my
> conversations with others...for example while i=B4m talking to someone
> at a restaurant table.
>
> >From what i read the whole idea of noisegenerators is that the level
>
> of noise
> is sufficient high that it will mask (overpower) the voices.
>
> So here=B4s the microphone of the bug.
> Here=B4s my voice.
> And here=B4s the noise.
>
> Lets assume as long as the bugs-mic receives more noise then voice
> ...my voice will be masked...fine ...that will work in general.
>
> Back to the restaurant
>
> How to accomplish above with my small portable unit...either by
>
> 1) Generating much louder noise then voice
>
> Undo-able in practice since i would have to produce so much noise
> that they will throw my out of the restaurant in less then 2 minutes
> remember that you don=B4t know where the bug is...it could be right
> at the table i=B4m sitting at.
> Also it will make the conversation itself impossible.
>
> or
>
> 2) Placing the noise-source much closer to the bugs-mic then my voice.
>
> Un-doable...since i don=B4t know where the bug is i can=B4t place my nois=
e
> generator
> closer to it in order to overpower my voice.
>
> One thing i know however is that the bug is not on me (lets hope so)
> but that doesn=B4t help much does it.
>
> So my idea of having a personal..or even better wearable-
> noisegenerator
> for protecting my own conversations can not work in practice.
>
> No need to reply..i=B4m using this group as a piece of paper to organise
> my
> thoughts
>
> contranl
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get your own web address.
> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
=20
---------------------------------
The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
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<br><br><b><i>cont..._at_yahoo.co.uk</i></b> wrote:<blockquote class=3D"replbq=
" style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; paddi=
ng-left: 5px;"> <br>Hi Mark,<br><br>But my 30 $ sound software will notch-o=
ut any tone at the flip of a<br>switch<br>if there is another tone...i filt=
er that out in the next go.<br>if there is another one i filter that also i=
n the next go.<br><br>Ofcourse you can=B4t continue with that...since you w=
ill have nothing<br>left in the end.<br><br>Even a varying frequency could =
be followed and notched i suppose.<br><br>But interesting idea that is...so=
why not take your suggestion but<br>instead<br>of a single freq,dual freq,=
various frequencies separate the 2<br>ultrasounds with<br>as many frequncie=
s as possible...wich would be NOISE !<br><br>In practice i would have to ge=
nerate:<br><br>One 30 khz ultrasound tone<br><br>and<br><br>One 30 khz ultr=
asound tone...frequency-modulated with random pink<br>noise<br><br>Accordin=
g to your idea i
would not hear nothing but the mic in the bug<br>will hear the difference =
wich is the pink noise.<br><br>Will that work ?<br><br>--------------------=
------<br>I believe it would!<br>-------------------------<br><br>Also...<b=
r>Will the ultrasound generator not do the same as the mic....at the<br>ver=
y<br>beginning of all of this ?<br>..meaning will the ultrasound emitting t=
ransducer not<br>also produce a tone at the difference of both frequencies =
?<br><br>When i feed a ultrasound-transducer with 2 ultrasounds having a<br=
>difference of 1 khz...will that transducer not also emit a 1 khz<br>sound =
?<br>if that is true..then there is no cone of silence but a 1 khz tone !<b=
r><br>---------------------------------------------------------------------=
-<br>It would, except you don't use 1 transducer-you use one for each frequ=
ency.<br><br>If you tried to use a SINGLE transducer, then, indeed you woul=
d probably hear the beat note<br><br>I guess if you put the ultrasonic + pi=
nk noise on
one transducer, and a plain ultrasonic signal on a second transducer, all =
should be well(try to keep the 2 transducers apart for best results, althou=
gh even if they are in close proximity, it should still work(what I'm conce=
rned about is the transducers self-resonating, and producing a sound)-If th=
is happens, you might have to shield one from the other(I suspect that poin=
ting them opposite directions will do it)<br><br><br>contranl<br><br><br><b=
r><br>On 8 mrt, 21:25, marc k <gee..._at_yahoo.com> wrote:<br>> A better wa=
y might be the old "cone of silence" method-2 ultra sonic(at at least above=
normal hearing frequencies) signals at the same time, with frequencies abo=
ut 1 Khz apart.<br>> Your ears will not hear it, but most microphones wi=
ll, so they will pick up a 1 Khz beat note.<br>> This would work even be=
tter with maybe 5-6 frequencies, or one that sweeps around a bit(either wou=
ld make it tougher to "notch out", of otherwise filter out the noise.<br>&g=
t;<br>>
The only possible problem I see, is that hearing aids will pick it up too.=
<br>><br>> co..._at_yahoo.co.uk wrote:<br>><br>> .<br>><br>>=
Here=B4s another question from your online idiot...i=B4m pretty shure<br>&=
gt; i won=B4t get a usefull answer...but that doesn=B4t matter since i=B4m<=
br>> actually<br>> talking to myself...while i=B4m doing that i usual=
ly find the answer<br>> myself.<br>><br>> I=B4m thinking of having=
a small personal noisegenerator wich i would<br>> always<br>> carry =
with me...it would be easy to build something like that.<br>><br>> Wh=
at about the usefullness of a such a portable/bodyworn<br>> noisegenerat=
or<br>> wich purpose would be to make it at least more difficult to bug =
my<br>> conversations with others...for example while i=B4m talking to s=
omeone<br>> at a restaurant table.<br>><br>> >From what i read =
the whole idea of noisegenerators is that the level<br>><br>> of nois=
e<br>> is sufficient
high that it will mask (overpower) the voices.<br>><br>> So here=B4s=
the microphone of the bug.<br>> Here=B4s my voice.<br>> And here=B4s=
the noise.<br>><br>> Lets assume as long as the bugs-mic receives mo=
re noise then voice<br>> ...my voice will be masked...fine ...that will =
work in general.<br>><br>> Back to the restaurant<br>><br>> How=
to accomplish above with my small portable unit...either by<br>><br>>=
; 1) Generating much louder noise then voice<br>><br>> Undo-able in p=
ractice since i would have to produce so much noise<br>> that they will =
throw my out of the restaurant in less then 2 minutes<br>> remember that=
you don=B4t know where the bug is...it could be right<br>> at the table=
i=B4m sitting at.<br>> Also it will make the conversation itself imposs=
ible.<br>><br>> or<br>><br>> 2) Placing the noise-source much c=
loser to the bugs-mic then my voice.<br>><br>> Un-doable...since i do=
n=B4t know where the bug
is i can=B4t place my noise<br>> generator<br>> closer to it in orde=
r to overpower my voice.<br>><br>> One thing i know however is that t=
he bug is not on me (lets hope so)<br>> but that doesn=B4t help much doe=
s it.<br>><br>> So my idea of having a personal..or even better wear=
able-<br>> noisegenerator<br>> for protecting my own conversations ca=
n not work in practice.<br>><br>> No need to reply..i=B4m using this =
group as a piece of paper to organise<br>> my<br>> thoughts<br>><b=
r>> contranl<br>><br>> ---------------------------------<br>> =
Get your own web address.<br>> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Bu=
siness.<br><br></gee..._at_yahoo.com></blockquote><br><p> 
<hr size=3D1>The fish are biting.<br>
<a href=3D"
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=3D49679/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo=
.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php?o=3DUS2140&cmp=3DYahoo&ctv=3DQ107Tagline&s=
=3DY&s2=3DEM&b=3D50"> Get more visitors</a> on your site using <a href=3D"
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=3D49679/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sp=
onsoredsearch_v2.php?o=3DUS2140&cmp=3DYahoo&ctv=3DQ107Tagline&s=3DY&s2=3DEM=
&b=3D50">Yahoo! Search Marketing.</a>
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Received on Sat Mar 02 2024 - 00:57:27 CST