Hi reversers,
I think this newbie project area is a great idea, but i do think and agree with many others that it could be even better if there were maybe a few projects taking place simultaneously. I know at first this sounds like it might get a bit messy, but if there are only 2 or 3 and the threads are labled accurately, then I don't really see a problem.
For Instance, the projects could still be numberd project 1,2,3 etc, but a level indicator could be added e.g. (bas)ic, (int)ermediate, (adv)anced.
Another idea might be to have a theory section whereby the moderators/advanced reversers could teach us important fundamentals and then test our understanding with questions. I think this would be very valuable because it would be like a two way interactive tutorial. Tutorials par se are good, but I've often read one and thought: "how the hell did he arrive at that!", or "there you go again assuming your readers have that prior knowledge". Don't get me wrong tuts are great, and we all need them. But, what I am saying is this: how wonderful it would be to learn important fundamental concepts from a tut like teaching tool, and then be able to clarify any misunderstandings or grey areas by questioning!
Another advantage here would be that any moderator/advanced reverser running a "hands on project" could, from time to time, check the last few "theory projects", and then base their projects accordingly. In this way all active projects although possibly on different levels, could all be related if need be. I think that all this would introduce more flexibility and choice to the board which at the end of the day has to be a good thing!

Anyway these are just ideas, and it's my hope that even if none of them are taken up, maybe at least they can be a springboard to others.

Best Regards
xOptiMus

Hello all,

Great Idea mate, i can't agree more with you on this. I too experienced the same thing as you have. By the time i started ungraying the new/open/save/save as menu item's whoosh! the project was over. And iam still stuck at the same place. I really really, liked your ideas. IMHO if that was done, there would be no need for seperate projects.

BTW:- Having seperate projects, would cause

1.) a lot of confusion as you correctly thought out.

2.) There would be no communication between, exp'ced reverser's and newbie's like me/us can i say ? , if project's & board members were divided on basis of levels. You get my point don't you.

3.) the moderator would have a hell a lot of job to do.

4.) But most importantly there would be no fun.
What I mean is, there would be no competetion. IMHO, to increase our
level of knowledge we must compete & learn from those who are better than us. Even if we get beate'n badly.

But this will be good only when :-

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1.) Another idea might be to have a theory section whereby the moderators/advanced reversers could teach us important fundamentals and then test our understanding with questions. I think this would be very valuable because it would be like a two way interactive tutorial.
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2.) But, what I am saying is this: how wonderful it would be to learn important fundamental concepts from a tut like teaching tool, and then be able to clarify any misunderstandings or grey areas by questioning!
Another advantage here would be that any moderator/advanced reverser running a "hands on project" could, from time to time, check the last few "theory projects", and then base their projects accordingly.
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(Copyright's to xOptiMus) are implemented. Then theory wize if not in experience we would be on the same level. So, then we would be able to reverse any damn protection under the sun.

Food for thought, that's all. But i really hope this get's implemeted.


With Regards
MaTRiX

PS:- Sorry for my post Named "Menu Reversing Project".
I guess i have wasted a lot of people's time reading my tale.
I did not intend to misguide you good people, it's only a query
not a new project.
You can't expect a new project from a newbie can you?
Well you know it now. If you get any posts named like this from me
(if any) you can comfortably shove them off.
Thankyou.

Hi,

Thanks for posting this again xOptimus, it's always good to have discussions, especially in a fledgling operation such as this. I agree with everything that's been said. I love it when the board is active and rocking, but as I'm sure you can understand it's dependant on the time and willingness people have to give to the projects, on both sides.

More than 1 thread at a time - yeah, it'd probably work. It'd be nice to have some easy introductory projects going that the raw rookie could get into and get something out of. I still think there's a lot of people who would like to join in but feel perhaps a bit intimidated by it all, let alone not wanting to ask "lame" questions or posting their results.

This is really my main concern, that some newbies may be feeling left out. The thing is, we can't only post basic projects because many others will get bored, won't be challenged and won't learn anything. We also need intermediate/advanced challenges so all of us can learn and teach the new people coming into RCE.

I'm concerned too about MaTRiX_2k's comment about the projects seemingly being "over" while some people are just beginning. Well, they're never really over as long as someone keeps posting, but I understand the sentiment. I think part of the problem is the format of this board. With Sandman's old projects everyone had their own thread and they could go on for weeks. No one had to read the other threads or the "answers" if they didn't want to. With this format all being in one thread, if someone asks a question, you want to reply to it and give as much help/instruction as possible, but of course everyone else tends to read it as well, perhaps taking some of the fun out of the whole thing. I'm not sure what the solution to this is - less direct answers and let people work it out for themselves?

Question/answer sessions on RCE theory- nice idea but again, could be a lot of work. Someone's got to take the initiative and actually put the thought and effort into developing the 'lesson'.

There's been at least a few suggestions recently for potential projects. Have these gone by the wayside? Or should they be presented differently, as in "This is the next project OK? and these are the tasks, now sharpen your pencils!" ??


One thing I'd like to cover fairly soon is a basic project in writing an inline patch, where you jump to an empty section of the program, write your own code to do something, then jump back into the program. Many people already know how to do this, many probably don't, but this opens up a whole new world into the realm of Reversing and not simply patching/serial fishing. It also develops your ASM programming skills when you've suddenly got all kinds of empty space to write any code you want.

In any case, this board is going to be what we make it. We need people to develop projects, small and large, basic and advanced. And we need people to participate in them. One feeds the other and maybe we get the snowball rolling...

Just more fodder for discussion.

Regards,

Kayaker

Hello again

Thanks for the response and support MaTRiX_2k, and Kayaker. Yes, I agree with you both, Ideas are fine, but their implementation isn’t always so easy is it. I do realise this, I just wanted to convey (as a newbie) what I feel is often missing within the reverse engineering teaching/learning arena.
The reason I suggested a theory section was not because I think this is lacking - there are numerous tuts and technical essays out there - but because whenever interesting theory is encountered, it's more often than not on such a high/technical level, that it's not of much use to a newbie. I've often come across material like this and most often in so called newebie tuts. I think a lot of authors although extremely knowledgeable and experienced in RCE, are unable to communicate that knowledge in such a way that newbies can understand it. I say “unable to communicate”, though that’s probably not quite true. I think it’s more likely the authors get a little carried away with what they know, and are unconsciously trying to impress us. Please don’t misunderstand me here, I’ve seen nothing of this here on this board, I’m talking more on the line of tuts and essays.
The reason I thought that a theory section on this board would add to it’s value is simply this: that anything not understood in a topic being discussed could be questioned, clarified and elaborated on by anyone knowledgeable and experienced enough to do so. This questioning would hopefully also encourage the answerer to elaborate and explain things in a way that newbies would understand. For instance, if the answerer is a little too technical on a particular point then a subsequent question will force him/her to explain in a more simplified way.
Hope I haven’t waffled on to much about keeping things simple and non technical, but after all this is a newbies’ board isn’t it?

BTW kayaker I would love to see a project that introduces “inline patching” as you mentioned earlier – sounds great!

Regards
xOptiMus