when i use tE!'s RSATool with option "Use QNFS method only" i get a windows message(after the program is running for some time) about low diskspace on drive "c" and then the tool aborts. why do i get this message and is there a way to force the tool to use an other harddisk with more space left?

when you use that function you are using the Quadratic Number Field Sieve (QNFS) Algorithm to try to factor a number. That function if you read about it in the docs you will see the funcky design of it. Basically it requires tons of memory and the RSA tool uses hard drive space as memory instead of killing all of your regular memory.

What you can do is set your %TEMP% path to another drive with more hard drive space or just not use that function.

goatass

thanks for your help again goatass, but where can i set this temporary folder? is it in the registry or where should i look for it?

i set the tempdir to a bigger hd, but it doesn't work. so i set the windows swap file to the bigger hd too, but still the tool quits after some time(but this time there is no error about not enough space). why does the tool quit even there is enough space(7gb)?

just as a sidenote, if his tool relies on the miracl library (which seems to be the
case), then the factoring algorithm in question is not the GNFS (of which i know
no publicly available implementation btw) but the MPQS (multiple polynomial
quadratic sieve). btw, what is the target number size in bits?

Hi The Owl, he's using tE's RSA tool and if I'm not mistaken it does use the Miracl library. It uses QNFS not GNFS or MPQS. I don't know how tE implemented the function excatly, but if you run the tool and click the help button and scroll down a bit there will be an explanation on what this function is and about its memory usage.

goatass

thanks for your answers but how can i get the tool running like it should? i tried to run it 5 times and it quits everytime the windows-swapfile is ~1-1.5gb. does anyone have the same problem or knows how to fix it?

Until you decide to seriously study cryptography, I suggest you stop
replying to every crypto related post, you're just making a fool
of yourself. Whatever is used in this tool, there's no such thing
as a "Quadratic Number Field Sieve", NFS algorithms are by definition
not quadratic. And as The Owl said, the Miracl library does not
contain any NFS algorithm. Do your homework.

-N

at least he's trying, N, instead of talking someone else down - now think about what kind of reply draX can use best and keep in mind what the aim of this msgboard is.. aa'ight.

Since you apparently have not followed Iceman's
thread, I will summarize it for you : people who
learn from tutorials and cookbooks instead of
reading academic work are taking the risk of
gaining twisted and fuzzy knowledge. Since these
people think they know this and that, they
sometimes reply to other's questions, and the
only result is disinformation. Wrong answers are
worse than no answer at all, because they
confuse people and propagate errors.

Which reply is most useful to him ? The same as
for everyone, it is the reply which contains the
more correct informations, and goatass' posts
are not in this category.

-N

Nasdukar, what's your problem so I made a mistake, is it too hard for you to just say so you have to go saying all kind of shit. I have been studying crypto seriously but unlike you I started not long ago so newbies helping newbies, we make mistake we come back and correct them what's the big deal. After all this whether QNFS does or doesn't exsist doesn't matter because that was not the issue.
Whatever Iceman said it great but if we never made mistakes we would never learn, so what if we mislead some people when we find the mistake we come back and we correct it that's just the way it is. And I was not misleading drax because he was not learning what NFS is he was trying to get a tool working correctly.

You are here to bitch about people being wrong but you mised the entire subject of the thread and didn't answer drax's question so thanks for you posts.

thanks Predator_PC^pGC for standing up for me.

goatass

drax, I ran the tool on a 256bits number using the QNFS option for about an hour straight and it never crashed or anything it worked just fine. I don't know what is the problem with your tool. What version are you using ? I'm using the 1.3 and the 1.2 and it works fine on both.

goatass

the win9x swap file size has a natural upper limit of 2 GB, and other factors
could limit it even more. the reason i asked about the target number's size
was exactly for this purpose: to determine if the needed memory wasn't too
large in which case you will never factorize the number (on win9x at least).

now as for the rest of the thread (before you guys kill each other for good ;-)).
when i posted first, i did have a purpose which you managed to kill now, doh. so,
just for the record, i do know the tool in question (i had it before it was released).
i also knew it used the miracl library, my question was meant to ask if someone
knew whether the factorization algo 'QNFS' mentioned throughout the docs and
then quoted here was really some sort of NFS (in which case it must have been
implemented by the author himself) or there was a misunderstanding and it was
rather the MPQS. i just wanted to bring all this up - my way - and then discuss it
and clear up the confusion. oh well, next time.

finally, as iceman got mentioned here: he didn't say to 'dehumiliate people who
post without proper understanding of the subject matter', rather he suggested

1. 'self-censoring', ie. 'do not rush to answer if you are not sure your answer is
correct', and if you are unsure, then ask of course (instead of answering). there
is a difference between a '?' and a '.' - they express the intention of the poster.

note also that this 'self-censoring' can apply only in situations where the correct
answer is known and can be given (by someone), not for discussing new research
where noone is the wiser, in which case (intelligent) speculation is natural.

2. 'be technical or be erased', ie. if you happen to know the (correct) answer to
a question, then state it, possibly in a manner that the person asking the question
will be able to understand - there is not much teaching value in dehumiliation.

The Owl, the reason I said something about the QNFS is not because I didn't know that did not exsist (no I didn't know it exsisted) it's because on tE! tool he talked about it so that means that he designed a way to implement it so therefore it can be done.
from his help file: "If the Quadratic Number Field Sieve (QNFS) Algorithm is needed to factor your number, a huge amount of memory is needed." So I came to the conclusion that this is a legit algorithm maybe not implemented by Miracl but can be done hence tE!'s tool.

Could you maybe give a quick explanation of what is the differences between the different NFS's to clear things up ?

This is a forum for learning that's all I'm trying to do, and teach whenever I can

goatass

I found this the Applied Cryptography book, Ch. 11.4 Factoring :

"Currently, the best factoring algorithm is:

Number field sieve (NFS) [953] (see also [952,16,279]). The general number field sieve is the fastest-known factoring algorithm for numbers larger than 110 digits or so [472,635]. It was impractical when originally proposed, but that has changed due to a series of improvements over the last few years [953]. The NFS is still too new to have broken any factoring records, but this will change soon. An early version was used to factor the ninth Fermat number: 2512 + 1 [955,954].

Other factoring algorithms have been supplanted by the NFS:

Quadratic sieve (QS) [1257,1617,1259]. This is the fastest-known algorithm for numbers less than 110 decimal digits long and has been used extensively [440]. A faster version of this algorithm is called the multiple polynomial quadratic sieve [1453,302]. The fastest version of this algorithm is called the double large prime variation of the multiple polynomial quadratic sieve. "

That is QNFS if I understand this correctly.

goatass

i know what he says in the help, and i tried to clear it up but somehow didn't find
a communication channel to him since. anyway, now i'm 100% sure that he did
use the MPQS (from miracl's factor.c).



i'm sorry but i never really delved into the depths of these factoring algorithms,
so i can't be of help. there are quite a few papers and even books on this subject,
use the researchindex site i gave earlier here to find them. beware, these algos
rely on heavy linear algebra and number theory, don't expect to understand them
without a serious background (one reason i didn't pursue the matter myself).

well, not exactly. as has been pointed out already, there is no such thing as a
QNFS, ie. a quadratic sieve is not a number field sieve. rather, in miracl's factor.c
you can find an implementation of a specific quadratic sieve, the MPQS. this has
been for some reason misnamed as 'QNFS'.

Ok I follow you now. Thanks for the help.

goatass

Fully agree with you, but you can choose another way to argue against goatass. This will keep those discussions at an high and polite level.
Thanks.

thank you all for your help . i tried some more times to factor a 256bit number but i didn't get the tool running yet(it still exits without an errormessage after it has been running for some time). is there something else i can do besides changing my OS? if not are there any suggestions about an OS?

So, Nasdukar, you say I have to listen to Iceman before I can talk myself?

Well now.

I reserve the right to have my own opinion and express it - if you can't handle that then that is completely your problem and not mine.

Don't even try to argue with me because it's of no use.

~Pred.

Hahaha, after a 80+ posts discussion all you can come with is a pathetic
"I have the right to have my opinion" ? Don't worry kid, you can have
any opinion you like and even express it, you should just know that if
you are that unable to argument them and convince people, your ideas
won't go far. I agree, discussing with you is of no use.

-N

Nasdukar, it's of no use to talking to you also because you seem to think you are above everybody else and anything you say is right. I haven't seen a single constructive post made by you only ones that talk down people and argues with them.

You seem like the kind of person that sits in front of their computer all day long, have no friends, think you are above all and in my opinion useless to society and a total waste.

Additionaly you are building on what Iceman said in his many posts as he was the divine word, all he was doing is stating his opinion, no one said he was right.

p.s just because Predator doesn't want to waste his time discussing his opinions with you does not mean he is unable of argument or his ideas won't go far as you put it.

goatass

since i have started this discussion, i wanna tell you what i think about posting stuff and making mistakes. first of all a board like this one is a good service cause you have the chance to talk with other reversers if you get stuck or have problems. if someone makes a mistake in a post, its no big thing for me. i make mistakes too. i'll always make mistakes but thats not important as long as there is someone who tells me that its not right what i did or wrote. and i think thats the main goal of such a board! you can help others and others help you! so its no big deal if goatass made a mistake. instead of talking him down you could have just corrected him in a FRIENDLY way! but if thats not possible for you, i think such a board is the wrong place for you.

-draX

Hi there, it's me the author of that crap tool :P

Just wanted to tell you all that The Owl is right. Of course
the factoring algorithm in the RSATool is MPQS not QNFS.

I messed it up due to lack of sleep and reading too much
about factoring methods. Maybe due to lameness even,
who knows :PPP

Nevertheless, you might find that tool a bit useful.
I will release v1.4 within the next days with some minor
bugs removed and with all QNFS references replaced by MPQS

Time to stop misleading people, eh ?

Greets to The Owl.

tE!