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View Full Version : Another reason to crack.


WaxfordSqueers
December 7th, 2004, 18:05
I found the vote question interesting, but found none of the responses spoke for me. I do crossword puzzles as well, the hardest I can find, like the New York Times weekend puzzles. I stopped reading newspapers, and I buy a paper on the weekend just to get the NYTimes puzzles. I would regard that as a hobby and a means of exercising my brain. That's much the same way I regard reversing. Like Mallory said when asked why he wanted to climb Everest..."because it's there".

That's much the way I look at reversing. Let's face it, with a little bit of patience and judicious search skills, anyone can find many programs already cracked, somewhere on the net. If not, there are countless serials, keygens and patches for most programs. I personally don't have the motivation to reverse just for the sake of learning. If I wanted to do that, I'd get serious and study computer programming and become a systems analyst.

There's a little bit of anarchy in it too. One definition of anarchy is an absence of order. Whereas I don't advocate wholesale disobedience of the law, for our mutual good and respect of others, I don't prescribe to what the software manufacturers are doing. If I'm right, the internet was first set up by the military, then became a public domain educational enterprise. It was a creation of the human spirit and a testament to the human ability to share. Then along came the businesses, like they usually do, and try to claim it as their own private domain.

The internet is not for private enterprise alone, it's for everybody (even Bill Gates), much like a public park. Private enterprise has already taken it's pound of flesh by charging us to get on a system that rightfully belongs to the public. One could argue that it was the universities to whom it rightfully belongs, but it's usually the public who pay for them. And it's the public who support the military. So, the internet was created with taxpayer's money.

I say to software companies, "if you want to use 'my' internet, then behave yourselves". The software companies have offered trials on the net to lure people into buying their products. I prescribe to the theory that we should support the development of these products by buying the products. But some of these companies are so damned greedy and arrogant that it becomes repugnant to support them. They gleefully come out with contrived protection schemes, and you can just sense the attitude of "shove it up yours, John Q. Public". When someone reverses their products, they run to the courts screaming, "foul!!". I have to admit to a certain contentment in showing myself I can reverse these kinds of protections. It's a childish pleasure, but fun all the same. It's a challenge.

I'm opposed to someone stealing a software product and selling it for profit. And I'm not sure how I feel about reversing a product and releasing it onto the net. I don't do it myself, although I'm being hypocritical, if you get my drift. There's something a little Robin Hoodish about it. I feel for legitimate software companies who are simply trying to make a living, but I tend to smirk at the larger corporations who are socking it to the consumer through inflated prices and poor customer support.

I'd like to know how others feel about it. Am I alone in my thinking?

disavowed
December 8th, 2004, 23:47
Quote:
[Originally Posted by WaxfordSqueers]Then along came the businesses, like they usually do, and try to claim it as their own private domain.
If it wasn't for the businesses that came along, two things wouldn't have happened:
1. If the telecom businesses hadn't come along, the internet would have died, since .edu's wouldn't have been able to supply the infrastructure for the entire internet as we know it today.
2. If "computer businesses" (used in the broadest sense) hadn't come along to promote the internet, its popularity never would have grown to its current state, and I doubt we would have entered into the "information age".

Quote:
[Originally Posted by WaxfordSqueers]Private enterprise has already taken it's pound of flesh by charging us to get on a system that rightfully belongs to the public.
The public doesn't own the infrastructure. Businesses do. Therefore it's not fair to say that the internet belongs to us.

Quote:
[Originally Posted by WaxfordSqueers]So, the internet was created with taxpayer's money.
ARPANET was created with taxpayers' money. "Today's internet" wasn't.

Quote:
[Originally Posted by WaxfordSqueers]I say to software companies, "if you want to use 'my' internet, then behave yourselves".
So you're against free speech?

Quote:
[Originally Posted by WaxfordSqueers]They gleefully come out with contrived protection schemes, and you can just sense the attitude of "shove it up yours, John Q. Public".
Actually, most software companies use protection schemes to stop casual copying, not to stop determined reversers.

Quote:
[Originally Posted by WaxfordSqueers]When someone reverses their products, they run to the courts screaming, "foul!!".
Actually, this is not true. Perhaps you're thinking of the FBI going after piracy groups, or certain reversers (like Dmitry), or the RIAA going to court with DVD Jon. But software companies don't bring reversers to court. (However, they may have their lawyers send letters to the reversers, which I think they have the right to do)

WaxfordSqueers
December 9th, 2004, 00:49
Quote:
[Originally Posted by disavowed]
1. If the telecom businesses hadn't come along, the internet would have died, since .edu's wouldn't have been able to supply the infrastructure for the entire internet as we know it today.


the telecom business was there long before the internet became commericalized. Telephone PABX's were hot all through the 80's, long before CAT 5 appeared. Besides, most of the business generated for telecom companies comes from in-house structured wiring systems. They wouldn't have done dick all if the demand hadn't been there.

Anyway I'm not talking about edu's. The actual www was created by CERN, a university conglomerate. They also created the HTTP language and laid out the foundation for the web as we know it today.


Quote:
[Originally Posted by disavowed]
2. If "computer businesses" (used in the broadest sense) hadn't come along to promote the internet, its popularity never would have grown to its current state, and I doubt we would have entered into the "information age".


you've got the cart before the horse partner. All business is fuelled by consumers. If the consumers didn't take to the internet, it wouldn't have grown.

Quote:
[Originally Posted by disavowed]
The public doesn't own the infrastructure. Businesses do. Therefore it's not fair to say that the internet belongs to us.


you missed my point. 'Initially' the internet structure was in place. Businesses don't own dick, other than their own routers, etc. They are granted nodes. Last time I looked, the web was still run by CERN. I'm not sure on their status today, or how the web is run. But businesses still apply to a non-profit body for nodes and IP addresses, as I understand it.

This is yet another example of public funded universities doing research and having private enterprise be the beneficiary. Why didn't they do it on their own? I know some businesses fund universities, but where I'm from John Q. Public pays the lion's share. Right or wrong, I still think of it as our web.


Quote:
[Originally Posted by disavowed]
Actually, most software companies use protection schemes to stop casual copying, not to stop determined reversers.


I'm talking about the ones who were bragging about their protections being crack-proof. That's a taunt, and it goes back years. They used to talk about reversers as if they were snotty-nosed kids with adolescence problems. I remember one company putting out what they called an irreversible algorhythm. It wasn't long before the Marquis de Soiree wrote an algorhythm to reverse their irresversible one.


Quote:
[Originally Posted by disavowed]
Actually, this is not true. Perhaps you're thinking of the FBI going after piracy groups, or certain reversers (like Dmitry), or the RIAA going to court with DVD Jon. But software companies don't bring reversers to court. (However, they may have their lawyers send letters to the reversers, which I think they have the right to do)


you missed my point again. It's not that they are prosecuting reversers, it's the whining. I agree they have the right to prosecute. It's looking down their noses at reversers and laughing, then crying when the reverser beats them. They start the game, then they cry when they lose.

I'm thinking of the concerted efforts of music software companies to go after the likes of Radium in the music software cracking field. They've changed their tack now. They are cozying up to would be users of cracked music products with the lament, "Hey guys, give us a break, we've got to make a living". Radium made a point of not reversing anything under a certain value to give the smaller companies a break. And they were the first, if not one of the first urging people to try, then buy.

There was a company hired in the UK just to monitor music piracy. And they were prosecuting. Nowadays we have that dumbass act aimed at mp3's,etc., that even music producers are pissed off about. It's like McCarthyism all over again, and it was brought on by private business lobbyists.

There was a good article on ProAudio, I think it was, about a guy who bought a copy-protected music app, and it messed up his system. He was pissed off because he knew other people who owned the product but who were d/ling cracked apps with the wrapper removed so it wouldn't screw their systems.

disavowed
December 9th, 2004, 01:42
Quote:
[Originally Posted by WaxfordSqueers]the telecom business [...] wouldn't have done dick all if the demand hadn't been there.
right. i don't see where we disagree on this point

Quote:
[Originally Posted by WaxfordSqueers]The actual www was created by CERN
yes, but in your original post you were talking about the internet, not the www

Quote:
[Originally Posted by WaxfordSqueers]you've got the cart before the horse partner. All business is fuelled by consumers. If the consumers didn't take to the internet, it wouldn't have grown.
i agree. both are required for the system to work

Quote:
[Originally Posted by WaxfordSqueers]Last time I looked, the web was still run by CERN. I'm not sure on their status today
read the book Angels & Demons

Quote:
[Originally Posted by WaxfordSqueers]But businesses still apply to a non-profit body for nodes and IP addresses, as I understand it.
most businesses apply to for-profit bodies for ip addresses

Quote:
[Originally Posted by WaxfordSqueers]This is yet another example of public funded universities doing research and having private enterprise be the beneficiary. Why didn't they do it on their own?
why bother? it had already been done.

Quote:
[Originally Posted by WaxfordSqueers]Right or wrong, I still think of it as our web.
well it's a matter of opinion. all i'll say is that the internet wouldn't have expanded to its current state if private businesses hadn't ponied up the infrastructure

Quote:
[Originally Posted by WaxfordSqueers]I'm talking about the ones who were bragging about their protections being crack-proof.
in that case, disregard my response

Quote:
[Originally Posted by WaxfordSqueers]you missed my point again. It's not that they are prosecuting reversers, it's the whining.
i haven't seen any anti-reversing software companies whining about having their protections being defeated. could you provide some examples?