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WaxfordSqueers
May 10th, 2005, 00:50
There's some interesting reading in the newsgroup alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc, but better hurry since the persistence is low in that group at times, depending on your newsserver. Well worth the read.

If you know what a binary group is, you'll be able to 'read' between the lines of my message. Ignore all the garbage headers in the group and look for a series of headers that would be interesting to Tools of our Trade.

JMI
May 10th, 2005, 02:48
If I'm "reading between the lines" correctly, this tool has been out in the wild at least since the middle of February. But that just presents another Internal Paradox in need of solving. Metaphorically speaking, of course.

Regards,

quasar
May 10th, 2005, 03:04
Linux or something else?

Silver
May 10th, 2005, 05:47
JMI, that phrase has always been something of an oxymoron

WaxfordSqueers
May 10th, 2005, 11:36
Quote:
[Originally Posted by JMI]If I'm "reading between the lines" correctly, this tool has been out in the wild at least since the middle of February. But that just presents another Internal Paradox in need of solving. Metaphorically speaking, of course.

Regards,


Hey JMI, how's it going? I've been off the board a couple of months...working out in the wilds, so to speak. You'll have to bring me up to speed on the Internal Paradox, even though Paradox is interestingly related.

I understand the tool was around and seemed to disappear. The poster was trying to remedy that.

WaxfordSqueers
May 10th, 2005, 11:40
Quote:
[Originally Posted by quasar]Linux or something else?


Linux is easy to find. The latest Red Hat can be found on the associated Fedora site. Besides, Linux isn't a tool of our trade...yet.

WaxfordSqueers
May 10th, 2005, 11:50
Quote:
[Originally Posted by Silver]JMI, that phrase has always been something of an oxymoron

Here's a few more:
acute dullness · act naturally · Advanced BASIC · airline food · almost exactly · Amtrak schedule · bittersweet · British fashion · business ethics · butthead · calm wind · cardinal sin · casual sex · cheerleading scholarship · childproof · clearly misunderstood · comfortably dressed · constant variable · corporate conscience · cowardly lion ·
Rest on hxxp://www.oxymorons.com/oxymorons.html

JMI
May 10th, 2005, 22:19
Hi Ho Silver, away:

To put it in the venacular, Yo Silver Dude, s'up.

I beg to differ. A "metaphore" may be expressed both orally, as in speech, and in writing. as in literature. That being the case, to identify that one is using a "Metaphorical" "figure of speech"... while "writing" the message, is not an oxymoron at all. If one were "speaking metaphorically" and then said "metaphorically speaking" it still would not meet the classical definition of an oxymoron.

The general standard definition of oxymoron is:

"A rhetorical figure in which an epigrammatic effect is created by the conjunction of incongruous or contradictory terms"

Since the conjuction of "methaphorically" and "speaking" is NEITHER incongruous or contradictory the conjuction is, by definition, NOT an oxymoron at all. To illustrate this point, the reference by WaxfordSqueers of oxymorons, does not include the phrase "metaphorically speaking."

Generally, the expression "metaphorically speaking" is meant to convey that
the idea is to be taken figuratively and not literally.

Thus endth the lesson for today. Please read Chapters 6-7, pages 173-209 for tomorrow's discussion.

Regards,

naides
May 11th, 2005, 01:24
I beg to differ. A "metaphore" may be expressed both orally, as in speech, and in writing.
"reading between the lines" ain't no oxymoron
as in literature. That being the case, to identify that one is using a "Metaphorical" "figure of speech"... while "writing" the message, is not an oxymoron at all. If one were "speaking metaphorically" and then said "metaphorically
you just did it!
speaking" it still would not meet the classical definition of an oxymoron.

The general standard definition of oxymoron is:

"A rhetorical figure in which an epigrammatic effect is created by the conjunction of incongruous or contradictory terms"

Since the conjuction of "methaphorically" and "speaking" is NEITHER incongruous or contradictory the conjuction is, by definition, NOT an oxymoron at all. To illustrate this point, the reference by WaxfordSqueers of oxymorons, does not include the phrase "metaphorically speaking."

JMI
May 11th, 2005, 08:03
Now that is ingenuous, enigmatic, inexplicable, and more than a little egregious.

And "you are correct sir". "Reading between the lines" "ain't no oxymoron." It IS a metaphor for "interpreting" the writer's "true" meaning. Which "ain't no stinking oxymoron" either.

Again, note that I was not "speaking" at all and you were not "hearing" me. Had you been, I would have said: "you ain't listening."

I was writing my words. You were "reading" my words in this Forum. You may have "spoken" them in your mind while you "read" them, and your lips may have even moved while you did so, but aside from that possibility, there was no "speech" involved in the exchange.

But the phrase "Nobody IS perfect" just might actually be an oxymoron.

Regards,

Silver
May 11th, 2005, 09:14
Word up, oh fine and bootylicious JMI...

I was referring to "internal PDX" with the oxymoron comment. Excuse me, "internal paradox" . Because those are some words that should never be in the same sentence for accuracys sake. Along with "not for public release" and "if you like this...".

So I await your profuse apology for "slapping me upside the head" incorrectly . I ain't frontin', holmes...

JMI
May 11th, 2005, 14:18
Thus the lesson necessarily continues.

What is clear is that very little attention has been paid to the usage of language, English in general and literary usage in particular. Language is used to convey information, emotion, point of view, and many, many other concepts . Language may have many forms of usage and intent.

Among the variety of intents may be to convey information directly or indirectly. Among these are three relevant to my original Post.

The first is Paradox:

Paradox: a statement whose two parts seem contradictory yet make sense with more thought. "They have ears but hear not." Or in ordinary conversation, we might use a paradox, "Deep down he's really very shallow." Paradox attracts the reader's or the listener's attention and gives emphasis.

The second is allusion:

An allusion: a brief reference to a person, event, place, or phrase. The writer assumes the reader will recognize the reference. For instance, most of us Americans would know the difference between a mechanic's being as reliable as George Washington or as reliable as Benedict Arnold. Allusions that are commonplace for readers in one era or place may require footnotes for readers in a later time or different places.

The third is metaphor:

Metaphor: A figure of speech "in which one thing, idea, or action is referred to by a word or expression normally denoting another thing, idea, or action, so as to suggest some common quality shared by the two." The term, "metaphor" is often reserved for figures of speech in which the comparison is implicit or phrased as an "imaginary identity," but it has become more common in recent years to refer to all figures of speech that depend upon resemblances as metaphors. You will therefore sometimes hear similes, where the comparison is explicit and no identity is implied, referred to as metaphorical figures. All metaphors, in any case, are based on the implicit formula, phrased as a simile, "X is like Y." The primary literal term of the metaphor is called the "tenor" and the secondary figurative term is the "vehicle." "[I]n the metaphor the road of life, the tenor is "life" and the vehicle is "the road"

Now that stated, we address the usage of "Internal Paradox." I state, as I did with "metaphorically speaking" the words "internal" and paradox" are not incongruous or contradictory terms and, thus, do NOT meet the definition of an "oxymoron."

In this case the phrase was, at the same time, paradoxical (literally so in this case ) because more "thought" would have made the meaning clear; allusive, because it was "reasonable" to assume a reverser would understand a reference to "Internal Paradox," which is a group and not a metaphysical event; and,finally, metaphorical because it was "A figure of speech "in which one thing, idea, or action (the group) is referred to by a word or expression normally denoting another thing, i.e an "internal," as opposed to an "external" paradox, or even an internal-external paradox.

For examples:

http://www.er.uqam.ca/nobel/r21270/cv/Hands_on.html

Is there any measurable learning from hands-on concordancing?

"Another reason is that a particularly fatal form of the internal-external paradox makes controlled studies of very novel learning media very difficult-learners must get used to a new medium over time, yet with time confounding of variables is almost inevitable, particularly in self-access settings."

and

http://www.everyauthor.com/forum/faq.php:

The Untitled Forum: A Writer's Workshop Home

"Why The Untitled Forum?

Apart from the pleasing tension of its mild internal paradox, we chose to title the forum The Untitled Forum to help give a hint as to its purpose, namely to provide a community for writers eager to enlist the aide of other writers in improving whatever writings they happen to be writing at the time. In other words, this is a place to hone your skills and fine-tune your works-in-progress, not merely to showcase your latest oeuvre for the delight and edification of a sycophantic audience. That's what The New Yorker is for."

Are their any further questions before I grade your papers?

Regards,

WaxfordSqueers
May 11th, 2005, 16:42
Quote:
[Originally Posted by JMI]Are their any further questions before I grade your papers?
Regards,


Yes. Why would Chico Marx say, "paradox...why not a parageese?"


I don't think that's an allusion, but it would require a footnote.

JMI
May 11th, 2005, 17:20
His brother used to say:

I just flew in from Chicage, and boy are my arms tired.

Regards,

SiGiNT
May 11th, 2005, 17:54
I'm confused! why would he equate a pair of doctors to a pair of geese?

QUAK QUAK

SiGiNT

WaxfordSqueers
May 12th, 2005, 00:21
Quote:
[Originally Posted by sigint33]I'm confused! why would he equate a pair of doctors to a pair of geese?

QUAK QUAK

SiGiNT


for the same reason he thought Dallas,Texas was related to income tax.


Actually, his original statement was in reference to him being directed to use a viaduct. He said, vie a duct? Vie not a chicken...vie not a goose?

WaxfordSqueers
May 12th, 2005, 00:23
Quote:
[Originally Posted by JMI]His brother used to say:

I just flew in from Chicage, and boy are my arms tired.

Regards,


My favourite Groucho saying was, "I'd never go out with a woman who'd go out with a guy like me".

naides
May 12th, 2005, 05:23
I apologize to the administrators specifically JMI, and to other members of the board for taking the concept of "silly posting" to new, wild and uncharted extremes.

Silver
May 12th, 2005, 06:10
I wanted to reply, but I can't stop laughing

SiGiNT
May 12th, 2005, 12:58
I'm sure all is forgiven, just remember to follow W.C. Field's advice - "never drink water ..... fish f##k in it.

SiGiNT

WaxfordSqueers
May 12th, 2005, 16:52
Quote:
[Originally Posted by sigint33]I'm sure all is forgiven, just remember to follow W.C. Field's advice - "never drink water ..... fish f##k in it.SiGiNT

He also said, "Anyone who hates children and animals can't be all bad."

BTW...did anyone read the article in the newsgroup I suggested to start this thread?

disavowed
May 16th, 2005, 09:19
For those of us whose news servers don't archive more than 3-days-back, what did we miss?

WaxfordSqueers
May 16th, 2005, 18:36
Quote:
[Originally Posted by disavowed]For those of us whose news servers don't archive more than 3-days-back, what did we miss?


The Big Kahuna of the tools...latest version. Used to come in 31 flavours but they just added one.

disavowed
May 16th, 2005, 22:05
In English please

Seriously, wtf tool is everyone talking about?

Kayaker
May 16th, 2005, 23:38
The one you don't like

WaxfordSqueers
May 17th, 2005, 02:52
Quote:
[Originally Posted by disavowed]In English please

Seriously, wtf tool is everyone talking about?


I was trying not to run afoul of the rules of the board, but it turns out we have a similar thread at: hxxp://www.woodmann.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6855. The first two entries actually address the issue.

blank
May 17th, 2005, 08:29
Ah, big fuzz about nothing then. I almost thought I missed some leaked internal holy grail tool

disavowed
May 17th, 2005, 09:17
I'm still shocked by how many people think that they need a kernel debugger

SKiLLa
May 17th, 2005, 11:55
Oww damn; I love that woman ... and the discussion here