I'm sure you've all had your share of panic attacks, worries, concerns, bitching, etc over the past few days or weeks. I know many of the problems totse has been experiencing have been attributed to me, which may or may not be unfounded. However, regardless of cause, it is clear that there were and are issues that need to be addressed. To that end, the administration have just spent a considerable amount of time discussing the status quo and our actions from this point out.

This post is to notify all users of totse about impending changes, so that you have at least some advance notice of what is about to happen, and some explanation when it does. Note, in part many ideas here have been our own, but we DO take to heart what has been said to us in the past, so many changes are based on actual requests.

Obviously, emails from our administration mailing list have been leaked by one or possibly more moderators. They were posted all over the boards. What bothered us most was not the content, because most things there are things you eventually find out about anyway - my post about merchandise, for example, was only a couple of days before a similar post here in news of the temple. What bothered us most was that our 'circle of trust' (yeah, I'm quoting Meet the Parents, what of it? :P) was broken. That meant there were serious problems with some of our staff. We've reacted and dealt with this in many ways, some public, some very much private. Whatever your argument with our actions, remember, we act for the good of ALL.

We have decided that there are moderators here that need to be removed, for various reasons. In some cases, this may outrage you. In others, many of you may be pleased. Note, in some cases those that are being removed are our friends, however, we act for the good of totse, not for our own personal motivations. Please do not question why certain mods are removed, nor petition for their return. Some mods are absentee and obviously not doing their jobs, so it should be clear to you why they are going. In other cases, it will be less clear, but just as necessary, in our opinion.

To those moderators who may be outraged at their removal - We thank you for your hard work on totse in the past, but we believe it is time for us and you to move on. If you wish to remain as a poster here, you will be welcomed. If not, thank you once again, and have a nice life.

We have also decided that several forums need to be combined, changed around, renamed. This is an ongoing thing, you may find new forums in new places. No forum is completely disappearing, it is simply evolving, as everything does. We may also add new forums, if the need arises.

If you have an urge to be a moderator, we ARE looking for new staff, however, please do not ASK to be a moderator. Post intelligently and wisely in the forums you like, and you will be noticed, believe me.

If you would like a new forum, again, please wait and see. I have paid attention to ALL suggestions I have ever read, and we will consider all the options open to us.

Regarding new software, updating text files, merchandise, etc. Be patient. Behave yourselves, and we WILL do everything we can to improve, update, and repair or replace what needs to be done. Asking for features, asking for anything, simply takes time away from us actually DOING things to improve the site while we answer your queries.

Finally. I would like to extend an amnesty to banned users. IF you believe you are capable of following our rules, IF you truly want what is BEST for this site, email me - update@estot.com, listing your banned username (in the case of those with multiple accounts, ONE and ONLY ONE will be unbanned) and WHY you want to return. I will consider your request, but I WILL keep an eye on you, and this is the ONLY time I will be this lenient. If you misbehave again, by spamming, posting page stretching threads, blank threads, or in other ways breaking the rules, you will be gone for good. I'm hoping that doing this will allow us to have the freedom to open registration again, and give you no reason to make multiple backup accounts. I want to extend freedom to ALL. But not freedom to abuse this site. Freedom to help us bring this site back to what it once was. Reform, and be forgiven.

Wintermute, Zok and Acidmelt.

hmmm can't wait to see who gets removed and for the love of god if you de mod red raven i shall hunt you down and........give you a very angry look!

Sounds good.

Oral stimulation.

Now whens this gonna happen?

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

Oral stimulation.

ummm im guessing your one getting removed then?

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

Oral stimulation.



Anal Emancipation

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

Oral stimulation.

damn it, Suzie. it's about time you got around to actually doing something with this site and not kiddy hunting in irc. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

my only question, does all this change include a facelift for old &? http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

quote:Originally posted by conlyn:

damn it, Suzie. it's about time you got around to actually doing something with this site and not kiddy hunting in irc. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

my only question, does all this change include a facelift for old &? http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)



Yeah, cuz I don't do shit.

I spend more time doing crap on the site than I EVER do talking in irc.

word cuz

I think you really did make a few things clear for us here.

I also still suggest a Medical forum.

Concerning the mod drops, do you mind listing the ones you'll be de-modding,just for curiosity's sake?

So when do we get to find out who is demodded?

i know you said that making suggestions would make you take longer to do stuff....

but please get rid of the ability to post images in half baked.

people are posting child porn constantly.

you're an admin and you can't even quote right, to shame.



seriously though, all being a bitch to me aside. it's a yes or no question.

[This message has been edited by conlyn (edited 08-01-2005).]

Well it's about frickin time something happened, and hopefully for the better.

I'll wait and see what these "changes" actually are, before I condem or condone them, and that's all I have to say about that.

If you do decide to have a half baked like forum, please name it bitch and moan, please.

quote:Originally posted by cheapandugly:

i know you said that making suggestions would make you take longer to do stuff....

but please get rid of the ability to post images in half baked.

people are posting child porn constantly.

bullshit its one person

Nice to see some fresh blood, blood-letting is nessecary for the body to survive... thank you Wintermute, Zok and Acidmelt. I can see you've all put alot of thought into this, and have the best interests and highest hopes, lets hope it plays out well for all of us

can you not fucking read?

quote:Originally posted by mapack:

bullshit its one person



still, it's there... and often

Tomorrow things will start, AM and zok are doing that part, I got to be the one doing the talking.

No, I'm not going to list the mods being removed.

And no, please don't ask us about updates or what we plan to do. We'll let you know in time. Bear in mind, it just took us over 3 hours altogether to hash out just the small number of changes we have planned for tomorrow. And that's with us AGREEING on almost every point.

Now, seriously, I have to sleep. I have a real life, as well as totse.

quote:Originally posted by cheapandugly:



still, it's there... and often

ok ban that person not remove inage tags seems alot more simple

I'm anxious to see the changes.

Nice to see the higher-ups taking charge.

its too bad ill never be a mod. i post intelligently in all my favorite forums (except half baked for obvious reasons) but i probably dont post often enough to get noticed.

also the email i used to sign up for this account has been abandoned.

anyway itll be good to see the boards finally get upgraded. BLTC really needs the ability to sticky posts.

I sees a bright future for totses, but for nows, I hopes it was snoopy that was re-moved, he'ves beens mods longs enoughs.

I only post intelligent to forums that consist of some intelligence. Now a-say those are rare.

I hope that Conspiracy! and BLTC stay as seperate forums.. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)Interested to see who is removed and all of the mentioned changes.

quote:Originally posted by Township Rebellion:

Well it's about frickin time something happened, and hopefully for the better.

Didn't you leave yesterday?

Is it too late to try get modship in spurious?

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

FTW

Could you possibly alphabetize the forums temporarily so its easier to see the changes and find forums?

Then change it again in about a week.

FUCKING HELL.

This reminds me horribly of the time I worked out how totse could improve and determined a plan to prevent it going to the dogs, and was drowned under a wave of flames and 'totse is perfect' or something like that.

(This was with a different username if i recall correctly).

Groan. Fucking SG. What a fucking joke.

For the billionth time, I am indeed working on a totse2 kinda thing that DOESN'T SUCK.

Sounds like a plan.

Thankyou.

I still don't see everyone's problem with closing half-baked though.

quote:Originally posted by Wintermute:



Finally. I would like to extend an amnesty to banned users. IF you believe you are capable of following our rules, IF you truly want what is BEST for this site, email me - update@estot.com, listing your banned username (in the case of those with multiple accounts, ONE and ONLY ONE will be unbanned) and WHY you want to return. I will consider your request, but I WILL keep an eye on you, and this is the ONLY time I will be this lenient. If you misbehave again, by spamming, posting page stretching threads, blank threads, or in other ways breaking the rules, you will be gone for good. I'm hoping that doing this will allow us to have the freedom to open registration again, and give you no reason to make multiple backup accounts. I want to extend freedom to ALL. But not freedom to abuse this site. Freedom to help us bring this site back to what it once was. Reform, and be forgiven.



Hell yeah, about a time to chop some heads...

^^ Yes and I bet that will be as bigger a hit than root canal surgery.

For the good of TOTSE

This should be intressting...

just dont change it to where it doesnt look or feel like totse anymore...i dont want it to feel like a whole new thing, ya know?

De-mod snoopy. He blocked me form the chatroom. I find it despicable!

WM can you please unblock me form the #totse chat?

I still miss the colors that were here in mid-2002 when I was registered under a different name.

quote:Originally posted by mapack:

ummm im guessing your one getting removed then?

IF ONLY, IF ONLY! That would be the best birthday present ever!

I'm confused..

I guess I do have faith in the administration here. But like I said before, I tried not to let this proverbial shitstorm bother me and just kind of went on with my life (TOTSE life that is....) and hoped it would blow over and things would go back to normal...

Well, Good that &TOTSE is getting an update.

Thanks admins for all of your hard work.

Nice, may I suggest that you reform the main page for the forum?

a.) The long descriptions for each forum are a bitch. I wouldn't mind if they were informative and were to tell people what to post, but they're just lame humor and it clogs it up. Please just be to the point.

b.) Have the forums listed in either alphabetical order or categorized. On a small 800x600 screen like mine, it sucks having to hunt down the forums. It's all made harder by the huge descriptions that clog it up, too. Have categories like:

General (SG, HB)

Politics & Religion (My god, Politics LR&C, Right to Bear Arms, conspiracy!)

Bad Ideas (Bad Ideas, Backyard Ballistics, Chemistry, Science of the Damned, etc)

Activites (DIY, FGF, I think his would belong right after bad ideas)

Entertainment (Media, and r&r, printed matter, go team, etc)

Personal (S&A, Self Improvement, weapons and combat, etc)

Like that. If you can't actually put them into categories in the forum, at least order them in a way where they're next to eachother like that.

c.) Possibly split Humanities into categories? Not sure if that would be good, because a lot of the subjects all relate to several different parts, but maybe something to consider.

d.) A history forum? I think it would be good to talk about the past, beyond war and everything like in humanities. Not sure though, maybe something to consider. I also like the medical forum concept someone posted up. Also, I just thought maybe it'd be cool to have a forum about racism and stereotypes, where people could discuss racial matters. Not sure how to explain what I'm talking about, but people could either talk about being discriminated, or about the truth/falseties to stereotypes. There are just a lot of threads about it lately and I'm sure people would like to talk about it in a forum where it belongs.

There are plenty of ways to make the forum better. I don't think it can ever be perfect, so keep looking for ways to improve it. Also; fuck tradition, don't let nostalogia get in the way of logic. I'm sure some people will be upset to see changes, but as long as it's for the better; go with what makes sense.

Always nice to hear changes.

Some members and I have noticed that my 'profile' page is not working or doesn't exist. What's with that?

Someone suggested that it's becuase of the ~ character at the end of the username, if so I wouldn't mind if you changed my username to frontalobe. It doesn't feel very sociable to have a blank page come up when someone is seriously looking to get in contact with me etc.

Any response on this would be most appreciated.

quote:Originally posted by IndicaSativa:

I hope that Conspiracy! and BLTC stay as seperate forums.. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Yeah, me too. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif) I'm sure things will work out.

Im just hoping BI and BB dont get combined http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

Can't change usernames for people, and yes, if you have a special character it won't work.

And just as I was learning tantric posting halfbaked returns. http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif)

quote:Originally posted by IndicaSativa:

I hope that Conspiracy! and BLTC stay as seperate forums

same here. if they take away bltc, im leaving.

quote:Originally posted by letsdrinknapalm:

same here. if they take away bltc, im leaving.

You promise? http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif).





Anyway, I think this will all work out for the better. A bit of change will do us good.

We've compiled a list of things to be done. Hopefully we can get to them all today if not tomorrow.

Too little, too late. The floodgates are open and it will take a lot more than a few changes to bring things back to the way they were, if that's even possible now.

Thanks Zok, Acidmelt, Wintermute.

Thanks to Jeff Hunter also.

i hope its going to be all good again. good luck zok and all others

I aint know what the hell happened, but after reading your post I have to agree with you finally, you did the right thing.

Good job.

But for the love of god do not combine BB and BI. The two forums hate each other and it would only inspire kewl's :/

Thanks for the advanced warnning wintermute. Hopefully I will still be a mod here after the dust clears, but if I'm not. I thank you for giving me the chance to be one.

Well done and good luck.

to all mods/admins

you people never stop working on totse, do you ever actually sleep http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif) ?

i would like to take this time to thank all mods/admins who volunteer loads of their spare time to keep this site up. thank you.

[This message has been edited by the lost cause (edited 08-01-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Cybernetico:

b.) Have the forums listed in either alphabetical order or categorized. On a small 800x600 screen like mine, it sucks having to hunt down the forums. It's all made harder by the huge descriptions that clog it up, too. Have categories like:

I suggested that a couple weeks ago, and apparently, no administrators thought it was a good idea.

quote:Originally posted by MandatorySex:

Anyway, I think this will all work out for the better. A bit of change will do us good.

Well said MS

its funny, but almost every new mod recently are damned near attached to the totse IRC room.

and i dunno why th hell youd want to mod totse anyway. the most popular ppl forum by forum arent mods.

which means more, popularity or power?

quote:Originally posted by Nihilist:



which means more, popularity or power?

On Totse? Neither of them mean shit.

I know you guys just want us to wait and see but I have wanted you guys to make this forum for awhile. I also know that there are a few other members that are interested in this topic. I was thinking that there should be a Law forum to dicuss legal issue. For example "I just got busted for this, what charges am i looking at?", or "How legal is this?".

UNBAN ALDUIN!

also why are admins mods of forums cant they do moderaters things in all of em whats the point?

I read the title as "Recent Events and Pending Charges".

OMFG FBIZ ATTACKING!!

quote:Originally posted by UN!F13D:

I know you guys just want us to wait and see but I have wanted you guys to make this forum for awhile. I also know that there are a few other members that are interested in this topic. I was thinking that there should be a Law forum to dicuss legal issue. For example "I just got busted for this, what charges am i looking at?", or "How legal is this?".

Humanities.

quote:Originally posted by tingtonger:

I read the title as "Recent Events and Pending Charges".

OMFG FBIZ ATTACKING!!

Rofl.. I did the same thing.

I bet Social Junker is demodded after all the hell hes raised in bltc!!!

So who is De-Modded?

BTW Re-Mod BangBang... if he comes back

When do we get the official list of those moderators who have been sacked?

It's great to see that the "highest in rank" are doing their share in making totse a better place.

quote:Originally posted by TheAlmightyVineMan:

Im just hoping BI and BB dont get combined http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

We don't even deserve to be named in the same post!

Please don't affilitate BB with BI, we aren't alike in subject nor way of posting.

Thanks for the warning. I hope that I remain a moderator of Better Living Through Chemistry but if not, it isn't the end of the world (Who am I kidding, yes it is! http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif)).

Better Living Through Chemistry is, for many users, the only reason they come to &TOTSE so for them I hope that it remains. I wouldn't see why it wouldn't.

I look forward to all the changes &TOTSE will be going through. Hopefully, they will make &TOTSE a better place to visit. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

bb is for stuff like pyro, bi is for stuff like shoplifting.

quote:Originally posted by UN!F13D:

I know you guys just want us to wait and see but I have wanted you guys to make this forum for awhile. I also know that there are a few other members that are interested in this topic. I was thinking that there should be a Law forum to dicuss legal issue. For example "I just got busted for this, what charges am i looking at?", or "How legal is this?".



Just ask in the forum that your charge pertains to. Get arrested for drugs? Go to BLTC. Explosives? BB. Etc, etc.

+1 omg lololol

quote:Originally posted by panthrax:

Thanks for the warning. I hope that I remain a moderator of Better Living Through Chemistry but if not, it isn't the end of the world (Who am I kidding, yes it is! http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif)).

Better Living Through Chemistry is, for many users, the only reason they come to &TOTSE so for them I hope that it remains. I wouldn't see why it wouldn't.

I look forward to all the changes &TOTSE will be going through. Hopefully, they will make &TOTSE a better place to visit. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)



Ya, I am no mod.

BI and BB together would be hell.With that said. Jsmooth for mod. g04ts3 for all.

[This message has been edited by Jsmooth744 (edited 08-01-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Jsmooth744:

Jsmooth for mod. g04ts3 for all.

You have my vote.

In the wake of whatever happens, I hope changes makes totse a better place for all posters.

$10 says they merge Humanities and Green Planet.

quote:Originally posted by kindbud:



also the email i used to sign up for this account has been abandoned.



I suggest that you go and change your email to an active account.

If you ever forget your password or something, without an active email account to get stuff from totse, you'll just be SOL.

so..... nothings changed

No offense kindbud, I notice you in BLTC but you post such bullshit in SG, and way to many pointless topics in BLTC, just a tip, think more before you post a new topic.

quote:Originally posted by Narcoplectic:

$10 says they merge Humanities and Green Planet.



Thats not a bad idea. They should also merge the "law" section of Humanities (ie I'm 12 can I make sex in Nantucket? type questions) with Bad Ideas. Specific legal questions dont fit well with the rest of the forum.

PS. Please dont can me.

quote:Originally posted by UndefinedMinded:





Where the hell have you been? I haven't seen you since the kitty-stir-fry vid. I'm probably slow, but forgive me.

on another note, do what you got to do admins.

I like the suspense of not knowing what the hell is going on.

quote:Originally posted by cense:

In the wake of whatever happens, I hope changes makes totse a better place for all posters.

+1

my first time posting/reading anything in news of the temple

Sounds like quite a few mods are questioning their viability.... interesting....

Anime+Media = Media

To be completely honest TRTBA and W&C should be merged also.

quote:Originally posted by moldykorn:

To be completely honest TRTBA and W&C should be merged also.

and right to bear arms + Weapons and combat.

Radio free america + T&T http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

NS&H + T&T 4ever

Considering that I am a secondary administrator on the board which the leaker of the emails originated from (to my knowledge)...

Well if I get dropped (despite all of the hard work I have put in to the forums) please find it in your heart to promote Faithless and HMC to the role of moderator in Weapons and Combat and The Right to Bear Arms. That would be my last and final request.

Thanks,

John

quote:Originally posted by I Love Poop:

Considering that I am a secondary administrator on the board which the leaker of the emails originated from (to my knowledge)...

Well if I get dropped (despite all of the hard work I have put in to the forums) please find it in your heart to promote Faithless and HMC to the role of moderator in Weapons and Combat and The Right to Bear Arms. That would be my last and final request.

Thanks,

John



BangBang owned you sir.

quote:Originally posted by KarEEmDaNIggA:



BangBang owned you sir.

What?

Fuck that. +1 for not demodding ILP.

Guys I'm scared. But at least the site is proving that it can evolve when problems arise. Quite frankly the mere fact that the guys from NS&H haven't taken over the site makes me believe there will still be a place for me to come and spend my spare time in the future. Here's to four more years, now in college, of killing time.

quote:Originally posted by n1k:

I bet Social Junker is demodded after all the hell hes raised in bltc!!!

But I've only been a Mod for one day! http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Social Junker:

Yeah, me too. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif) I'm sure things will work out.



Holy Shit, when did you become a mod!?

quote:Originally posted by Cybernetico:

Nice, may I suggest that you reform the main page for the forum?

General (SG, HB)

No, NO, NO!

What the fuck are you thinking!?!?!

Long live Totse!

*Finishes off bagel*

quote:Originally posted by buttthrax:

Fuck that. +1 for not demodding ILP.

quote:Originally posted by buttthrax:

Fuck that. +1 for not demodding ILP.



[This message has been edited by Sir_JuGgLO (edited 08-02-2005).]

Any minute now..

Nice going,

I hope it will improve the forum.

Although I believe the admin remove/assign will get a lot of reaction to it, it will be for the better good.

quote:Originally posted by buttthrax:

Fuck that. +1 for not demodding ILP.

+1

And I am pretty sure almost every, if not every, RTBA and W&C regular feels the same way. I wouldn't mind seeing HMC and Faithless promoted to mod while keeping ILP. ILP does a great job of moding, HMC and Faithless make great posts and are cool guys. And W&C is down 1 mod since rplinca left.

When are these changes occuring?

This is pleasing news. I'm sure I'll miss one or two of the mods being removed, but as you said, WM, this is for the best. I'm glad that &TOTSE is going through some reform.

quote:Originally posted by Social Junker:

But I've only been a Mod for one day! http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

quote:Originally posted by invictus:

Holy Shit, when did you become a mod!?

Having troubles reading, invictus?

quote:Originally posted by Cloaked Dagger:

And I am pretty sure almost every, if not every, RTBA and W&C regular feels the same way. I wouldn't mind seeing HMC and Faithless promoted to mod while keeping ILP. ILP does a great job of moding, HMC and Faithless make great posts and are cool guys. And W&C is down 1 mod since rplinca left.

A few days after rlpinca tendered his resignation I submitted a email to the admin list requesting the promotion of Faithless and or HMC.

I did not receive any response.

Approximately one or two days before this shit storm began I submitted the same request directly to acidmelt.

I suppose now all there is left to do is sit back and wait.

quote:Originally posted by acid_drop:



Anal Emancipation



Genetalial Ecstacy

Oh thats cool Wintermute!!

quote:Originally posted by SSJ4 GOGETA:



Genetalial Ecstacy

Oh thats cool Wintermute!!

<A HREF="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/sift/mg43.jpg">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/sift/mg43.jpg" width="90" height="90 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/sift/mg43.jpg" width="90" height="90)</A>

Well it happened.

wow that sure helped alot puttig admins as moderaters for no reason

THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!

Not only did you demod ILP, but Parallax as well! Not only did you combine W&C and RTBA(which alone would be fine) but you combined those two with backyard ballistics. You basically fucking droped a precision bomb on the only two forums worth a shit here. And from what I can tell you didn't even move the fucking topics from those forums over to the new "Ka-Fucking-Boom!" forum. And what the fuck is up with that name? That is the kind of name that draws kidiots from all corners of the interweb.

Goodbye Totse

This site has gone to complete shit. There is nothing left for me here now. The only reason I visited this forum has been destroyed.

Fuck you Wintermute! Fuck the rest of you also!

Well I know lots of people aren't to happy with the new forum names... but to be honest, I like them. I never really liked "Media" as a forum name... and at the risk of pissing off BB / K-F-B regulars, I didn't really care for "Backyard Ballistics" as a forum name either. And the return of B&M is nice too. And I swear I'm not just sucking up. Lol. Some of the mods that were de-modded dissapoint me a bit, though.

[This message has been edited by static_void (edited 08-03-2005).]

Well, where are SOTD people supposed to post?

"They're coming to get you!"? Conspiracy! and SOTD were two completely different things.

i dont like how we have both B+M and half baked...it just doesnt seem right to me.

Otherwise, yay.

Resurrected! :eek:

-Angus