quote:Al Gore defends his extraordinary personal energy usage by telling critics he maintains a "carbon neutral" lifestyle by buying "carbon offsets," but the company that receives his payments turns out to be partly owned and chaired by the former vice president himself.

Gore has built a "green money-making machine capable of eventually generating billions of dollars for investors, including himself, but he set it up so that the average Joe can't afford to play on Gore's terms," writes blogger Dan Riehl.

Gore has described the lifestyle he and his wife Tipper live as "carbon neutral," meaning he tries to offset any energy usage, including plane flights and car trips, by "purchasing verifiable reductions in CO2 elsewhere."

But it turns out he pays for his extra-large carbon footprint through Generation Investment Management, a London-based company with offices in Washington, D.C., for which he serves as chairman. The company was established to take financial advantage of new technologies and solutions related to combating "global warming," reports blogger Bill Hobbs.

...

ht tp://www.w orldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54528 (http: //www.worl dnetdaily. com/news/a rticle.asp ?ARTICLE_I D=54528)



Al Gore is a fatass piece of garbage. Thank the Lord that the people of America rightfully elected George W. Bush instead of this scamming asshole.

Al Gore is a liar and a bullshit artist.

*unnecessary and irrelevant political stance editted out*



[This message has been edited by Trousersnake (edited 03-04-2007).]

Interesting. Tell me, how old is Generation Investment Management, and before they came along, how many other companies provided a similar service for private individuals?

One other thing, let's say you own a t-shirt manufacturing plant. Are you telling me you wouldn't buy any of those shirts? You may be able to get them at a lower cost than normal and you would be supporting your own business. Imagine an ad ran by a competing company: Al Gore, Chairman of G.I.M., doesn't buy offsets from GIM, he buys them from us.

quote:The company was established to take financial advantage of new technologies and solutions Except for NPO's, what company wasn't established to do just that?



[This message has been edited by Seriously (edited 03-04-2007).]

So basically Al Gore is in this "hot soup" made up by journalists because...He is telling the world to be all carbon neutral in his own financial interests?

Kinda the same argument nerds have used to bitch about Bill Gates for years isn't it? Perhaps you need to take your own words into consideration from the XFL thread...and not believe everything a hack behind a computer screen produces.

Or if you play the "Al Gore has a large carbon footprint" wildcard you'd have to acknowledge the basis of a carbon footprint in the first place to make this accusation plausible - Something you, buttthrax, won't agree with...unless you want to try and discredit something or someone in this case.

Sounds to me you're as much of a hypocrite as he is.

Finally I'll mention this thread is totally disjointed. Fitting to possibly Paranoid Delusions, Politics Left Right and Centre, Bitch and Moan or Money Money Money.

Selecting George Bush over a scammer? Wait isn't Bush involved in Oil? And the American Army invaded an oil rich country?

I guess that's a matter for a different time and place.

[This message has been edited by Trousersnake (edited 03-04-2007).]

Someone posted this in IFIOTW. It basically refutes every argument against global warming.

http://gristmill.grist.org/skeptics

another ad hominem attack by butthrax.

shows nothing, proves nothing, means nothing.

why not say what is really on your mind butthrax?

This censorship is a fucking joke. Let me reiterate my original posting and re-edit it...

"Al Gore is a fatass piece of garbage. Thank the Lord that the people of America rightfully elected George W. Bush instead of this scamming asshole.

Global warming is a fucking lie to make faggot liberals feel warm and fuzzy. Al Gore is a liar and a bullshit artist.

Fuck liberals. Fuck "global warming". But mostly, fuck you."

[This message has been edited by buttthrax (edited 03-05-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Trousersnake:

So basically Al Gore is in this "hot soup" made up by journalists because...He is telling the world to be all carbon neutral in his own financial interests?

Kinda the same argument nerds have used to bitch about Bill Gates for years isn't it? Perhaps you need to take your own words into consideration from the XFL thread...and not believe everything a hack behind a computer screen produces.

Or if you play the "Al Gore has a large carbon footprint" wildcard you'd have to acknowledge the basis of a carbon footprint in the first place to make this accusation plausible - Something you, buttthrax, won't agree with...unless you want to try and discredit something or someone in this case.

Sounds to me you're as much of a hypocrite as he is.

Finally I'll mention this thread is totally disjointed. Fitting to possibly Paranoid Delusions, Politics Left Right and Centre, Bitch and Moan or Money Money Money.

Selecting George Bush over a scammer? Wait isn't Bush involved in Oil? And the American Army invaded an oil rich country?

I guess that's a matter for a different time and place.



The problem I see is that he is trading carbon from his own company and calling it even. What he says is true: that its offset.

However his offsetting carbon does absolutely nothing for the environment, and thats not in line with his ultimate intentions.

Should I start a topic on carbon trading to gague how well these work in the real world?

Since this is an offshoot "The Ghost" just look at his Election Declaration and you can see how much he wastes. He flies private planes every where which is one of the biggest waste ever.

quote:Originally posted by StealthyRacoons:

Since this is an offshoot "The Ghost" just look at his Election Declaration and you can see how much he wastes. He flies private planes every where which is one of the biggest waste ever.

Oh, but he gets some Enron accountants to offset his carbon so its all okay for him to do it. Us simpletons are the real problem because we don't switch around our bank accounts everytime we emit evil carbon. $1300/month electric bill is "carbon-neutral" if you can afford it.

Greenhouse means more green for Algore's house.

quote:Originally posted by Trousersnake:

So basically Al Gore is in this "hot soup" made up by journalists because...

So I guess his $1300/month power bill is made up? His private jets are made up?

His house is "carbon-neutral" because his corporation in London says so on paper? I don't think Tennesse Power gives Algore any special "carbon-neutral" power at $1300/month just because he thinks his shit doesn't stink.

This is the biggest scam. Just because Algore is a left-wing idiot doesn't mean that the rest you left-wing idiots have to defend his hypocrisy. Wake the fuck up.

Personally I don't give a fuck if someone uses $1300/month on electricity. What I have a problem with is him talking down to the American public and telling us to limit our evil carbon emmisions while he's using $1300/month on electricity. He thinks he's better than everyone else so he doesn't need to practice what he preaches. That is pure elitist left-wing hypocritical snobbery.

Fuck that. Fuck Al Gore and every other snob who wants to force others into their scheme.

quote:Originally posted by Real.PUA:

Someone posted this in IFIOTW. It basically refutes every argument against global warming.

http://gristmill.grist.org/skeptics

Nice to know the global warming attack machine has already written your arguments for you. Now you don't have to think for yourself, it's a piece of cake!

They still didn't answer my main question: why are you still breathing?

[This message has been edited by buttthrax (edited 03-05-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by buttthrax:

Nice to know the global warming attack machine has already written your arguments for you. Now you don't have to think for yourself, it's a piece of cake!

They still didn't answer my main question: why are you still breathing?



Those are arguments for you go ahead and refute. Provide the scientific evidence to back up any refutations you make. What? You cant? Too bad, that's why your kind includes the creationist retards, while the people you oppose are some of the most brilliant scientific minds that are alive today.

You have no scientific argument, because the science is clear. You only rely on insults to attack because you havent even bothered to look at the evidence.

quote:Originally posted by Real.PUA:

Those are arguments for you go ahead and refute. Provide the scientific evidence to back up any refutations you make. What? You cant? Too bad, that's why your kind includes the creationist retards, while the people you oppose are some of the most brilliant scientific minds that are alive today.

You have no scientific argument, because the science is clear. You only rely on insults to attack because you havent even bothered to look at the evidence.

How about you explain the science? It is your lie, after all, not mine. Can you prove that man is causing global warming? That link certainly doesn't. No? Then shut the fuck up.

Global warming is a politically motivated load of crap to implement socialist policies and weaken America. Look at the politics of the people pushing this shit down our throats. They're left-wing morons who want America weakened. It's just that simple.

You can fudge science to show evidence for anything that you wish were true. Global warming is an unproven hypothesis that you WANT to be true so you can destroy America.

quote:Originally posted by buttthrax:



You can fudge science to show evidence for anything that you wish were true. Global warming is an unproven hypothesis that you WANT to be true so you can destroy America.

I'm pretty sure that the Energy lobby is stronger than the environmental lobby, dipshit. They have tried to influence scientists before, but they are strong enough to do so because undeniable evidence countered them. The purity of your stupidity brings a smile on my face.

quote:Originally posted by shitty wok:

I'm pretty sure that the Energy lobby is stronger than the environmental lobby, dipshit. They have tried to influence scientists before, but they are strong enough to do so because undeniable evidence countered them. The purity of your stupidity brings a smile on my face.

So fucking what if the oil companies fund scientific research. You don't have a problem with Algore paying scientists to support his crap?

Here, have this:

Prominent French Scientist Reverses Belief in Global Warming - Now a Skeptic... http://tinyurl.com/2z4yey

quote:Originally posted by buttthrax:

How about you explain the science? It is your lie, after all, not mine. Can you prove that man is causing global warming? That link certainly doesn't. No? Then shut the fuck up.

Global warming is a politically motivated load of crap to implement socialist policies and weaken America. Look at the politics of the people pushing this shit down our throats. They're left-wing morons who want America weakened. It's just that simple.

You can fudge science to show evidence for anything that you wish were true. Global warming is an unproven hypothesis that you WANT to be true so you can destroy America.

The science has been explained numerous times. It's called the greenhouse effect. The top scientists in the world agree. Nothing is ever "proven" in science, if you knew anything about science you would know that. The fact that you ask for proof exposes you for the ignorant retard that you are. Take a science class for once in your life, you may learn something.

quote:Prominent French Scientist Reverses Belief in Global Warming - Now a Skeptic... [URL=http://tinyurl.com/2z4yeyhttp://tinyurl.com/2z4yey[/URL]

That's the first useful thing you've posted in this topic. I wish it had been a link to a scientific journal with articles published by some of those scientists instead of a media story. No one says that natural causes are not to blame for global temperature changes. Of course that shit plays a role in it, but the scientific consensus is that excessive CO2 emissions by man, not oceans and solar activity, are the main causes of the warming. Try actually looking at some of the data instead of regurgitating what some reporter said a scientist said and make the decision for yourself.

The reason excessive CO2 in the atmosphere is blamed for global climate change is because the changes in other factors which are known to affect global temperatures do not show a significant increase or correlation with temperature increases while the ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere does show a correlation.



[This message has been edited by Seriously (edited 03-06-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Seriously:

That's the first useful thing you've posted in this topic. I wish it had been a link to a scientific journal with articles published by some of those scientists instead of a media story. No one says that natural causes are not to blame for global temperature changes. Of course that shit plays a role in it, but the scientific consensus is that excessive CO2 emissions by man, not oceans and solar activity, are the main causes of the warming. Try actually looking at some of the data instead of regurgitating what some reporter said a scientist said and make the decision for yourself.

The reason excessive CO2 in the atmosphere is blamed for global climate change is because the changes in other factors which are known to affect global temperatures do not show a significant increase or correlation with temperature increases while the ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere does show a correlation.



I find it rather difficult to believe man is the main cause of global warming when CO2 is a very small percentage of greenhouse gases.

quote:The reason excessive CO2 in the atmosphere is blamed for global climate change is because the changes in other factors which are known to affect global temperatures do not show a significant increase or correlation with temperature increases while the ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere does show a correlation.

Pleas explain how we are supposed to make measurements of this BEFORE the Industrial Revolution. For rod's sake read what you are typing man!

This isn't the first time in human history the world has cooled and warmed Antarctica wasn't always that cold.

quote:Originally posted by StealthyRacoons:

This isn't the first time in human history the world has cooled and warmed Antarctica wasn't always that cold.

Oh don't even try. Remember that the global warming Crockpots already have their arguments written for them. The supporters are mindless and the scientists are paid. Logic is a moot point.

quote:Originally posted by buttthrax:

Oh don't even try. Remember that the global warming Crockpots already have their arguments written for them. The supporters are mindless and the scientists are paid. Logic is a moot point.

I am agreeing and supporting ArgonPlasma2000's post.

Al Gore is a huge douche bag.

quote:Originally posted by buttthrax:

So I guess his $1300/month power bill is made up? His private jets are made up?

His house is "carbon-neutral" because his corporation in London says so on paper? I don't think Tennesse Power gives Algore any special "carbon-neutral" power at $1300/month just because he thinks his shit doesn't stink.

This is the biggest scam. Just because Algore is a left-wing idiot doesn't mean that the rest you left-wing idiots have to defend his hypocrisy. Wake the fuck up.

Personally I don't give a fuck if someone uses $1300/month on electricity. What I have a problem with is him talking down to the American public and telling us to limit our evil carbon emmisions while he's using $1300/month on electricity. He thinks he's better than everyone else so he doesn't need to practice what he preaches. That is pure elitist left-wing hypocritical snobbery.

Fuck that. Fuck Al Gore and every other snob who wants to force others into their scheme.

Fuck you trashbag. At least Al Gore acknowledges something more important than bush's personal quest to win a pointless war. And of course gore is going to use more electricity than the average american. He has to spend half that 1300 on security systems to keep psychos like you out. Bush didnt lie about the iraq war? costing us 2 billion a week for an unjustifiable war. youre no patriotic american. If you represent americans i would be ashamed to say i live in this country. ignorant fuck. Win the war! Free Iraqis! fuck you fucking idiots. lets concentrate on real terrorists like the taliban and afghanistan. your poster boy bush ruined it for all republicans and its almost a guarantee al gore will be president. You can squirm all you want. Cry a river. You support the troops by putting them in the crossfire of a civil war. Lets support them by pulling them out and rebuilding our military for a real threat. But im sure you really care about our country. yea fucking right you delusional nutface.

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly Beast:

Fuck you trashbag. At least Al Gore acknowledges something more important than bush's personal quest to win a pointless war.

Great he "realizes" he's so much better than Joe Sixpack. Maybe he'll walk the goddamn walk soon?

quote:And of course gore is going to use more electricity than the average american. He has to spend half that 1300 on security systems to keep psychos like you out.

Yep he's a stupid fatass. You're acting he's some sort of a national asset: he's a national liability. He's a complete waste to everyone else. He's trying to drag down the quality of life for everyone except himself. FUCKING HYPOCRITE, GET IT?! Fuck Al Gore. Sorry, you only get SS protection if you're a legit prez candidate, not this asshole.



Do right-wingers want him to die? Fuck no. We want him to stop talking down to us and stop acting like his shit don't stink.



quote:Bush didnt lie about the iraq war? costing us 2 billion a week for an unjustifiable war. youre no patriotic american. If you represent americans i would be ashamed to say i live in this country. ignorant fuck. Win the war! Free Iraqis! fuck you fucking idiots. lets concentrate on real terrorists like the taliban and afghanistan. your poster boy bush ruined it for all republicans and its almost a guarantee al gore will be president. You can squirm all you want. Cry a river. You support the troops by putting them in the crossfire of a civil war. Lets support them by pulling them out and rebuilding our military for a real threat. But im sure you really care about our country. yea fucking right you delusional nutface.

This block of faggy quotation is mere fantasy about coulda, woulda, shoula 2000 bullshit.

Please shut the fuck up because I doubt you were old enough to vote in that ELECTION.

[This message has been edited by buttthrax (edited 03-06-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Pleas explain how we are supposed to make measurements of this BEFORE the Industrial Revolution. For rod's sake read what you are typing man!

Ice cores for one source:

http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/Image:Carbon_History_and_Flux_Rev_png

http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/Image:Carbon_Dioxide_400kyr_Rev_png



I find the one below interesting because in it the graph was created using soil samples. It shows carbonate levels and temperature changes over the past 5 million years. Of particular interest to me is that is shows a general decrease in average temps while other sources show an general increase. Also, I want to know why the very considerable change in the amount of fluctuation in the last 1/2 to 1 million years? Is it because we have more samples from that time period or what?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Five_Myr_Climate_Change.png



quote:I find it rather difficult to believe man is the main cause of global warming when CO2 is a very small percentage of greenhouse gases.

It is? http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/Image:Greenhouse_Gas_by_Sector_png

The only this I see that is higher than the CO2 is CFC 12.

http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/Image:Major_greenhouse_gas_trends_png





[This message has been edited by Seriously (edited 03-06-2007).]

who gives a shit about gore anyway?

he doesn't control anything. he doesn't make decisions for anyone but himself. he just made a documentary.

but this is how buttrax works. since the global warming argument is water-tight (prove me wrong), he attacks people he considers to represent it. and for some fucked up reason, known only to himself, al gore is now global warming personified.

it makes fuck all sense to me, but i think he somehow belives that discrediting al gore's personal life somehow makes global warming go away, and proves it is not caused by people.

it isn't worthy of comment. let the baby sit and make a mess all he wants, al gore could by a hummer tommorow and it won't change shit.

Duhh, yea lol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gases

Water vapor constitues up to %70 of all greenhouse gases. Use the correct chart next time.

Also, CFC-12 is extremely regulated these days, at least in the US. You have to be licensed to use it and your supplies are government audited.

quote:Originally posted by RAOVQ:

who gives a shit about gore anyway?

he doesn't control anything. he doesn't make decisions for anyone but himself. he just made a documentary.

but this is how buttrax works. since the global warming argument is water-tight (prove me wrong), he attacks people he considers to represent it. and for some fucked up reason, known only to himself, al gore is now global warming personified.

it makes fuck all sense to me, but i think he somehow belives that discrediting al gore's personal life somehow makes global warming go away, and proves it is not caused by people.

it isn't worthy of comment. let the baby sit and make a mess all he wants, al gore could by a hummer tommorow and it won't change shit.

But doesn't it discredit your position when the biggest vendor of global warming propaganda is a lying bag of shit?

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Duhh, yea lol: http://en .wikipedia .org/wiki/ Greenhouse_gases (http: //en.wikip edia.org/w iki/Greenh ouse_gases )

Water vapor constitues up to %70 of all greenhouse gases. Use the correct chart next time.

Also, CFC-12 is extremely regulated these days, at least in the US. You have to be licensed to use it and your supplies are government audited.

Water vapour is considerably weak GHG. Failio.

quote:Originally posted by buttthrax:

But doesn't it discredit your position when the biggest vendor of global warming propaganda is a lying bag of shit?

not at all.

he didn't create anything, he merely supports it. that is like saying god doesn't exist because of a few bad priests. gore may be a hyprocritical sack of shit, but doesn't discredit anything but himself.



Don Marquis said it best;

"An idea isn't responsible for the people who believe in it.”

just because information comes from an invalid source does not make it false. if al gore had said the sky is blue he would be right no matter what he did in his personal life.

quote:Originally posted by shitty wok:

Water vapour is considerably weak GHG. Failio.

water vapour is a great greenhouse gas, if it wasn't for water vapour the entire earth would be below freezing.

the thing about water vapour is that you cannot put more into the sky. the amount of water vapour in the atmosphere is controlled directly by the temperature. it cannot on it's own bring about changes.

i read an article by a guy was looking at this idea, he ran a computer simulation where he took all water vapour out of the atmosphere and kept the temperature the same. within a week (simulation time) the level of water vapour was exactly where it was at the begining.

it isn't mentioned very often because it is irrelevant. as the earth heats up, due to other greenhouse gasses, the amount of water vapour in the atmosphere increases as more evaporation takes place. (whether this leads to more heating is something im not sure of, but i think does, the feedback idea is pretty accepted)

quote:Originally posted by shitty wok:

Water vapour is considerably weak GHG. Failio.

Yea, because the fact that the vast majority of greenhouse gasses being naturally occuring substances conflicts with your idiotic dogma that manufacturing is evil?

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Duhh, yea lol:

Water vapor constitues up to %70 of all greenhouse gases. Use the correct chart next time.

I'm well aware cfc12 is regulated. It does have a higher ppm than CO2 though. You are right, I didn't take water into account.

In the link you posted I see how water vapor could be to blame, but in the same article it states that other GHG, like CO2, would have to contribute to warming before the amount of water vapor could increase to create more warming and a feedback loop. Maybe H2O could be the largest cause of climate change but without the affects of other GHG's it wouldn't be.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Yea, because the fact that the vast majority of greenhouse gasses being naturally occuring substances conflicts with your idiotic dogma that manufacturing is evil?

Please quote where I said manufacturing is evil.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Yea, because the fact that the vast majority of greenhouse gasses being naturally occuring substances conflicts with your idiotic dogma that manufacturing is evil?

Please quote where I said manufacturing is evil.

Mate I'm a liberal and I've been protesting this shit for years. It's both conservatives and liberals who bieleve this shit.

quote:Originally posted by siegmeow:

Mate I'm a liberal and I've been protesting this shit for years. It's both conservatives and liberals who bieleve this shit.

I don't think there's as many people who believe in global warming as there are people who "believe" in global warming. It is a convenient political tool for radical leftists. They can use it to implement socialist economic policies. Therefore the facts don't even matter because its usefulness goes way beyond the facts.

In other words, global warming is bullshit.

quote:Originally posted by buttthrax:

Fuck liberals. Fuck "global warming". But mostly, fuck you."

Don't you just love the people with thoughts like this...

quote:Originally posted by naive_wisdom:

Don't you just love the people with thoughts like this...

Yes, I do. I'm tired of you liberal idiots lying to everyone with your junk science. Its past the point of being polite.

Fuck you.

quote:Originally posted by buttthrax:

Yes, I do. I'm tired of you liberal idiots lying to everyone with your junk science. Its past the point of being polite.

Fuck you.

stop being so pathetic.

you keep harping on about junk science, and abusing the facts and all sorts of bullshit you claim disproves global warming.

so post the fucking shit and get it over with.

unless, of course, you are just full of shit and haven't got a clue? (but you have never engaged me on this topic, so im pretty sure you are full of shit)



as a side, im trying to figure out how old you are. the style of your posts and views suggest you are older, but your complete lack of coherant logic and namecalling shows you to be 14. so which is it?

quote:Originally posted by RAOVQ:

stop being so pathetic.

you keep harping on about junk science, and abusing the facts and all sorts of bullshit you claim disproves global warming.

so post the fucking shit and get it over with.

unless, of course, you are just full of shit and haven't got a clue? (but you have never engaged me on this topic, so im pretty sure you are full of shit)



as a side, im trying to figure out how old you are. the style of your posts and views suggest you are older, but your complete lack of coherant logic and namecalling shows you to be 14. so which is it?

Prove that: 1) "global warming" exists and 2) humans are causing "global warming".

You can't. You lose.

quote:Originally posted by buttthrax:

Prove that: 1) "global warming" exists and 2) humans are causing "global warming".

You can't. You lose.

Learn about science.

quote:Originally posted by buttthrax:

Prove that: 1) "global warming" exists and 2) humans are causing "global warming".

You can't. You lose.

is that it?

that is the best argument you can come up with?

with all your bitching and moaning, denials and insults, that is all you can say to back it up?



get the fuck out of here you stupid child. your in way over your head.

it is obvious you don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about.

quote:Originally posted by RAOVQ:

is that it?

that is the best argument you can come up with?

with all your bitching and moaning, denials and insults, that is all you can say to back it up?



get the fuck out of here you stupid child. your in way over your head.

it is obvious you don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about.

You lose and Al Gore is fat. These are universal truths.

Why the fuck does anyone care? Why shouldn't he be able to make money off of carbon offsets?

Stop fucking whining. If you don't like Al Gore, then don't buy his carbon offsets. So many of you fucking niggers love to complain about stupid shit like carbon offsets, and you can seriously compare him to George fucking Bush? I'm sorry, but after all the shit George Bush and Dick Cheney have pulled, I'd be more than glad to have Al Gore as president.

Guys, global warming is going to GET YOU, I'm SUPER CEREAL!

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly Beast:

Fuck you trashbag. At least Al Gore acknowledges something more important than bush's personal quest to win a pointless war.

Congratulations! You're too stupid to take part in the discussion without throwing a tantrum!

quote:Originally posted by buttthrax:

[B]Thank the Lord that the people of America rightfully elected George W. Bush instead of this scamming asshole.



Excuse me?!

Jesus fucking christ.

Just because an issue doesn't affect you now, in the short term, doesn't mean it doesn't exist!

Where the fuck did you idiots get your education from?

and because i know buttrax is gonna make a new thread about this,

"Al Gore Jr. received more than $500,000 in royalties from the owners of zinc mines who held mineral leases on his farm near Carthage, Tenn. Now the mines have a new owner and are scheduled to reopen later this year

Before the mines closed in 2003, they emitted thousands of pounds of toxic substances and several times, the water discharged from the mines into nearby rivers had levels of toxins above what was legal."

a sad attempt to disprove global warming by attacking a single persons history.

quote:Originally posted by Vilkacis:

Jesus fucking christ.

Just because an issue doesn't affect you now, in the short term, doesn't mean it doesn't exist!

Where the fuck did you idiots get your education from?

And because it does not affect us in the short term does not imply it affects us in the long term.

Evidently your education lacked logic.

=============================================

I just wanted to post because Dr. Gore made me see the light. This man speaks the truth about his extravagant lifestyle. I thought long and hard about this, and I have an announcement. Last night I made a company that puts out as much CO2 as my car per year, and then I shut down the business. I am so proud of myself.

That's right niggas, I am CARBON NEUTRAL! http://www.totse.com/bbs/cool.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/cool.gif)

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:



I just wanted to post because Dr. Gore made me see the light. This man speaks the truth about his extravagant lifestyle. I thought long and hard about this, and I have an announcement. Last night I made a company that puts out as much CO2 as my car per year, and then I shut down the business. I am so proud of myself.

That's right niggas, I am CARBON NEUTRAL! http://www.totse.com/bbs/cool.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/cool.gif)

That isn't being carbon neutral, and that is not what Al Gore did. You know this, right? I sure hope so because the irony of you attacking someone for their lack of logic and/or eduction and then exposing yourself as a complete fucking idiot would be too much for my system.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

That isn't being carbon neutral, and that is not what Al Gore did. You know this, right? I sure hope so because the irony of you attacking someone for their lack of logic and/or eduction and then exposing yourself as a complete fucking idiot would be too much for my system.

I know its not quite THAT simple. Its a horribly oversimplified analog to the carbon credit, in my opinion, farce, and not too much more.

I say that I am carbon neutral as Gore is, while my lifestyle does nothing good for the environment; it only worsens it if we are to believe in man's CO2 causing global warming. The Earth doesnt keep tabs of who is putting out so-and-so amounts of carbon. The earth simply sees a total mass and thats all that matters.

My analog just shows the ridiculousness of carbon reshuffling as a whole since it has no net change in carbon emissions. Instead of stopping CO2 emmisions, its just business as usual for Mr. Gore; and we all know actions speak louder than words. One's actions speak so much louder when one shouts loudest, no?

But in an effort to be fair, I will try to remember to make a thread to discuss reasons for or against carbon trading since I have not heard of any good reasons for it.

1. It's not an analog because it represents a completely different thing. Your "analog" would be artificially reducing your own carbon emissions, which is not what Gore is doing.

2. Carbon credits and other methods of offsetting carbon emissions aren't hailed by anyone as a miracle solution; what they are is a way to guarantee that the net emissions you contribute either lower or remain the same. That they do, and they do quite well. To call that "ridiculous" when it succeeds in everything it claims to do is rather ridiculous itself.

To use an analogy, since it seems you like them, it would like calling Band-Aids "ridiculous" because they can't stop the bleeding from a shotgun blast to the chest. Had the makers of Band-Aids or the doctors that use them, been making/using them to stop the bleeding from a shotgun blast to the chest, then that would be ridiculous; however, they aren't.

Similarly, nobody is claiming that carbon credits are some miracle cure to the real problem of global warming. They are a simple and effective way for someone to not contribute to the increase in carbon emissions. So if someone has to go to a business trip in Europe and is pretty much forced to take an airplane to get there; he or she can force someone else to lower their carbon emissions a certain amount, and therefore make sure that he/she hasn't increased the net amount of carbon emissions by taking the plane, but has either contributed the same as if not taking it or even less so.

[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 03-22-2007).]

Bandaids and shotgun holes arent quite the same as what I was discussing. Bandaids, in large quantities, can stop the bleeding (although you would be exceedingly stupid to use this as second aid).

However, my analog said carbon trading did nothing and was never capable of doing anything in the first place.

Since we both seem to be making creative analogs, would you mind showing me the error in my thinking?:

Acme Comanpy deliberately takes some of its pollution control devices offline, thus doubling the plant's CO2 output.

It can now sell those CO2 credits by turning back on the machines to eliminate the carbon, making enough money to offset the cost of runnning the machines.

Gore buys half of their carbon so he can haul his ass around to book signings and Bible burnings and whatever the hell he likes to do in his spare time.

Acme turns back n their machines, their CO2 levels return to normal, and Gore has put shitloads of CO2 into the atmosphere.

How does a government regulate such a practice, especially if plant engineers "cook the books" to add on more CO2 than they are generating?

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One thing Gore doesnt do is lead by example. He gets to live a very extravagant lifestyle with respect to the majority of America, yet tells us to stop polluting so much.

Hell, the company he buys his carbon from is owned in part by him, so how do we know that the above ficticious situation is not occuring in his firm?

In fact, where are his "carbon receipts" anyway?

I would think that Gore would win in my mind if he actually bought carbon credits he would never use, or came up with a plan that actually lowered net cabon emmisions. But that would be expecting too much from someone who lives rich, woudlnt it?

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Bandaids and shotgun holes arent quite the same as what I was discussing. Bandaids, in large quantities, can stop the bleeding (although you would be exceedingly stupid to use this as second aid).

Hence why it's an analogy; if it were the same thing, it would be the same fucking thing stated twice. The point of the analogy is to show that carbon credits are nothing close to ridiculous as you said because they fulfill the very purpose they set out to fulfill.

Your analogy failed because it was not analogous to anything. It did not represent what Al Gore was doing nor what carbon offsetting entails.

quote:However, my analog said carbon trading did nothing and was never capable of doing anything in the first place.

All the more reason why your "analog" was ridiculous to begin with. They do do something. They guarantee that you do not end up increasing the net amount of CO2 being emitted. That's something. Without them, the person taking the flight to Europe would have increased the net output.

quote:

How does a government regulate such a practice, especially if plant engineers "cook the books" to add on more CO2 than they are generating?

1. There are certain regulations to how much pollution, and what types of pollution, a certain company can give out. There are caps. The company cannot just pollute to inordinate amounts to "cook the books". It is these caps to which the credits are relative to.

2. These carbon credits give incentive to companies to lower the amount of pollution they give out to a level even below what they are allowed to. It is costly for them to implement the "pollution control devices" - so without these carbon credits they would only seek to do so until they fulfill the very minimum. With these carbon credits, they can go even lower and still be as cost-effective (or even more cost-effective) than not doing so.

well buttthrax, I can neither prove nor disprove that global warming exists. what I can see, is that there is a change taking place. also, even if global warming did exist, I doubt there would be the change needed to prevented, so we are fucked anyways. and if it does not exist, well, we have nothing to worry about. as for al gore trying to sell the global warming thing? i think not, I just think he is the most rescent seller. the whole global warming therory has been around for over ten years (I believe its more, but I do not feel like finding sources).

so forget about the danm documetery, and just look at it this way, if global warming exists, will you be fucked, and if it does not, how can you proffit off the poor sucers that believe it exists?

just my .02 cents