I found the greatest site that disproves christianity in so many ways. Sure this could fit in IFioTW, but i believe it is more fitting here.

www.biblebabble.com (http://www.biblebabble.com)

I disagree and find their contradictions to be false.

Besides, I doubt they're reading the original hebrew.

What about the thoughts on freedom of choice?

quote:Originally posted by 655321:

What about the thoughts on freedom of choice?

I found them interesting, but nothing I hadn't heard before.

There is no TRUE freedom of choice, of course.

Anything you choose to do was destined to happen, as time is not a continuum, but happening all at once.

Now we're getting into metaphysics. Lets stick to religion.

an atheist believes he/she is an atheist because they can't swallow dogma, thereafter they can either not find a good reason to believe in god, or give up on religion all together. But eventualy it boils down to a belief, not proof because god cannot be proven true or untrue. I have seen evrey fucking side of the coin, i've studied buddhisim, taoism, shintoism, christianity, judeism, hinduism, even some recongnized cults, even the school of "hard knocks" non of these have any valid answer, non of these "systems" will ever account for evrey thing that a person can experience.

Evrey belief that limits you, including atheism, is the same as getting through a closed unlocked door without using the door knob. Why waste unnecessary energy and intention to destroy the door when it isn't a limitation to begin with, provided you have common understanding of doors.

and to your weak rebuttals I speak in metaphors because it tends to weed out the idiots.

quote:Originally posted by ilbastardoh:

an atheist believes he/she is an atheist because they can't swallow dogma, thereafter they can either not find a good reason to believe in god, or give up on religion all together. But eventualy it boils down to a belief, not proof because god cannot be proven true or untrue. I have seen evrey fucking side of the coin, i've studied buddhisim, taoism, shintoism, christianity, judeism, hinduism, even some recongnized cults, even the school of "hard knocks" non of these have any valid answer, non of these "systems" will ever account for evrey thing that a person can experience.

Evrey belief that limits you, including atheism, is the same as getting through a closed unlocked door without using the door knob. Why waste unnecessary energy and intention to destroy the door when it isn't a limitation to begin with, provided you have common understanding of doors.

and to your weak rebuttals I speak in metaphors because it tends to weed out the idiots.



Not all Athiests are so because of dogma. I accept many commom moral values of your average human being. It is true that i cannot find a reason to believe in god. But just because i cant find a reason to believe in god doesnt mean i blindly think that there is another way like most athiests do. That would make me no better than a christian. The difference between you and I is that you need a final answer. You cant accept that some things cant be answered, then you slap the word God on things you cant explain. The first group of people to do this wrote long intricate confusing stories so that if something wasnt explained, they could fall back on the theory that "it is in the bible, its just that our weak mortal minds could not possibly comprehend it", and when people say "why would god give man a book he couldnt fully understand", they say thats where the faith comes in. Im not asking for proof of god, or proof that god doesnt exist, i wont have faith in either until i see some solid proof, and i dont care if it ever shows up. If god loved us, why would he make human nature want proof for something before it is accepted, then forces us to believe in something that we have no evidence of, (a bible is not evidence) or go to hell just because he made us that way? Dont argue that if we dont believe in hell, then its not his fault that we're going to it cause he gave us the choice not to but made us aware that there was, because if god really loved us he wouldnt let us make such a poor decision! "friends dont let friends drive drunk!" God doesnt exist. Show me a fucking angel and ill show you a newborn christian!



[This message has been edited by 655321 (edited 06-02-2003).]

you said that crap about why would god make human nature want proof if he loved us. i offer this analogy.

if you were on one side of a meadow and on the other side there was something that you always dreamed of having is on the other say a car or beautiful girl was on the other. you also had a best freind there with you. your friend told you that if you crossed the meadow you would be killed by the crazy guys with uzis on the other side. you look and there right there with there scopes on you. How hard is it to trust your friend that they will kill you? Now what if your freind told you the same thing but you couldn't see anyone. So you would prolly say wat r u talking about, but you friend said no more just that you'll be killed. No u know if you really trust your friend right. Its your choice no one but your own.

That is why god does that. I myself am not sure what to believe i am a 15 year old guy who has been forced to go to church for all my life. I am not sure if god is real or not. I have figured on thing out tho, ALL religions are based on FAITH thats the plain and simple. I also know another thing, that if you or i died right now or if the world ended, and it is right, we would be going to hell. Thats not good. but i dont believe in religion just so i dont go to hell. if i did i would have to find a much better reason.

[This message has been edited by bigtmoney (edited 06-02-2003).]

Let's all praise Allah then! For he is the only true god!

quote:Originally posted by Iscariot2:

Let's all praise Allah then! For he is the only true god!

And Mohammed is his prophet/murdering zealot!

quote:Originally posted by 655321:



Not all Athiests are so because of dogma. I accept many commom moral values of your average human being. It is true that i cannot find a reason to believe in god. But just because i cant find a reason to believe in god doesnt mean i blindly think that there is another way like most athiests do. That would make me no better than a christian. The difference between you and I is that you need a final answer. You cant accept that some things cant be answered, then you slap the word God on things you cant explain. The first group of people to do this wrote long intricate confusing stories so that if something wasnt explained, they could fall back on the theory that "it is in the bible, its just that our weak mortal minds could not possibly comprehend it", and when people say "why would god give man a book he couldnt fully understand", they say thats where the faith comes in. Im not asking for proof of god, or proof that god doesnt exist, i wont have faith in either until i see some solid proof, and i dont care if it ever shows up. If god loved us, why would he make human nature want proof for something before it is accepted, then forces us to believe in something that we have no evidence of, (a bible is not evidence) or go to hell just because he made us that way? Dont argue that if we dont believe in hell, then its not his fault that we're going to it cause he gave us the choice not to but made us aware that there was, because if god really loved us he wouldnt let us make such a poor decision! "friends dont let friends drive drunk!" God doesnt exist. Show me a fucking angel and ill show you a newborn christian!



[This message has been edited by 655321 (edited 06-02-2003).]



I can see that some things about me need to be clarified if any sort of intelligent discussion is to take place, I don't believe the mythological version of god that xians try to push on evreyone, nor do I believe the bible to be correct. The bible to me is a propaganda book, at best it makes a boring read some parts about jesus are cool. I guess the inconsistensies in the king james version and bad translations combine to change the meaning to coersion tactics. To me god wants me to be free, so he made me to be self sufficient, just like evrey other life form. However, because certain people feel they need to get thru life easy they exploit others. The problem is god gave these people free will, and also all the suckers out there willing to accept answers without question free will as well. Hence the way the world is, has been a direct result of dimwits to lead(exploit) dimwits.

To me god is simply the creator, by saying that the earth spins, because of god is correct because the earth and energy and inertia, could not exist if it wasn't created, however I know that the mechanics involved in the earth spining are a result of gravity and inertia, this is a generalization of forces we have a limited understanding about, so what is the difference between saying god or gravity, or god of gravity for that matter.

quote:Originally posted by 655321:

Im not asking for proof of god, or proof that god doesnt exist, i wont have faith in either until i see some solid proof, and i dont care if it ever shows up.

Which would make you an agnostic, not an atheist.

evreything that you can see with your own 2 eyes and evreything that you can't, is a manifestation of god, evreything that you can feel with your hands and evreything you can't is a manifestation as well. You don't need god for self realization, but it sure as hell makes it easier.

nothing about the existance of a god makes logical sense to me. the bible is probably the most hypocrytical thing i have ever read, despite the fact that priests constantly protest it doesnt contridict its self,it ATTEMPTS to install an idea of freedom into people giving false promises. in my opinion there is no such thing as fredom in any sense, we are all bound by the laws of physics, and even on a lower level we are NOT free!! we are constantly bound by emotion and rules. true freedom can never be achieved, so therefore we can only endeavour to try an aquire what level of freedom we as humans can achieve (i.e. free from opression and dictatorship).

quote:Originally posted by icantthinkofaname:

nothing about the existance of a god makes logical sense to me. the bible is probably the most hypocrytical thing i have ever read, despite the fact that priests constantly protest it doesnt contridict its self,it ATTEMPTS to install an idea of freedom into people giving false promises. in my opinion there is no such thing as fredom in any sense, we are all bound by the laws of physics, and even on a lower level we are NOT free!! we are constantly bound by emotion and rules. true freedom can never be achieved, so therefore we can only endeavour to try an aquire what level of freedom we as humans can achieve (i.e. free from opression and dictatorship).

Complete freedom is achievable. All the things you mentioned only limit us through fear. Without fear, which we can overcome, we would be completely free. (i know you said the laws of physics, those too can and have been broken)

"Rules were made to be broken."

Freedom of choice is a difficult thing. There are things that you can choose, but you are always bound to yourself- People take themselves to separate from their world. There are direct reasons why we choose the things we do, sociological and psychological reasons determine what we do to some degree, even if you do believe in a soul or other moralistic governing body. Even then, does it really have choice? Can it choose to choose good over evil?

quote:Originally posted by TigerJK:

Which would make you an agnostic, not an atheist.

I suppose youre right, but i am limited to 24 hours in a day, and school sure as hell hasnt taught me any new vocab words. For lack of a better term, i said i was athiest. but i suppose, after researching the definition of agnostic, i am agnostic. Thank you for informing me there. Im defidently leaning more towards athiesm than believing in the existance of a God though.

You're welcome.

Good luck.

Most atheists are just like everyone else. I'm tired of the steryotype of the chaotic rampant view of a young punk atheist. Atheist just don't belive. Why? Each has their own reason. IT' snot a psychological defect, or some common trait amoung us that makes us that way. I don't beleive in god because I feel nothing when I try to pray to him. I 'open my heart' as one once escribed to me, and I felt nothing. I find more comfort elswhere than I ever had in relegion - Im not religious, but I am spiritual. I'm Earthly. But I don't hate all the christians or muslims or pagans, or whatever they may be on the bassis that they do believe, and moth atheists are the same. We're just regular people with different beleifs.

quote:Originally posted by Kikey_Kikeowitz:

I found them interesting, but nothing I hadn't heard before.

There is no TRUE freedom of choice, of course.

Anything you choose to do was destined to happen, as time is not a continuum, but happening all at once.



And it looks like you were destined to be a bit on the simple-minded side. Oh well! That's the way destiny is, I suppose.

eric, his post shows immense intelligence. Kudos to ANYONE who can comprehend metaphysics, cause it just doesnt click for me. Though i trust that there is most likely some truth in it, some parts of it will surely be disproven, as with all theories, but for the most part, it seems pretty solid considering how popular it is with modern scientists.

[This message has been edited by 655321 (edited 06-06-2003).]

"The perfect reason to become athiest"

No, 1 reason to not follow the "Christian Church."

That webiste in now way disproves:

1. that a God exists.

2. all other religions.

More over, you can argue that the Church is not "Christian" at all, because it does not follow "Christ's" teachings...

quote:Originally posted by Kikey_Kikeowitz:

Anything you choose to do was destined to happen, as time is not a continuum, but happening all at once.



Everything is not happening all at once. If this were true, it would falsify thermodynamics second law. To date, this has not been done. Entropy states move from high order towards disorder. That is from low entropy to higher entropy.

I'll leave you to research thermodynamic's

second law on your own.

Thermodynamics has been suggested as the most usable tool to state that time exists, and under all observed conditions, moves in one direction.

There are theoretical states in which time may seem to move backwards, wormholes are one such anomaly, but for even this peculiar state time still moves forward within the wormhole. Time only appears to run backwards to observers outside of the wormhole. Then of course wormholes remain a mathematical abstract until shown to exist.

EDIT: Usual spelling trainwreck



[This message has been edited by miscreant (edited 06-07-2003).]

I think the most interesting point that guy made was how they all remembered every thing jesus had done untill they turned 80 years old

The original meanings of the bible have been added to, changed, deleted through the course of history, like a bunch of fucking chinese whispers. members of the clergy are more likely to be either gay, or paedophiles or both, despite the fact that its contradictary to the so called word of god.

How much faith can you have in a religion whose most devout followers are often weak minded perverts, without even taking into account the fact that various sects kill each other and and the texts themselves contradict each other, and sometimes themselves, page by page? jesus may have been a good bastard with some nice pretty ideas, but the son of god? bollocks. as for time happenening all at once, fucking prove it.

you eat, you shit, you die.

enough said.

Religion helps some pass the time before they die.

quote:Everything is not happening all at once. If this were true, it would falsify thermodynamics second law. To date, this has not been done. Entropy states move from high order towards disorder. That is from low entropy to higher entropy.

Now, I don't claim to know a ton about thermodynamics, but i thought that the second law showed why time appears to exist to us. So maybe a more accurate argument would be that things that happen are bound to happen because of the events that happen before, all the way since the beginning of time. So, in a sense everything that was and is going to happen was determined in a single moment, rather then along a string.

Now you've gone and interested me in physics. Im going to post on the Science / Math Forum.