I don't know about the people here but I tend to get a lot of bad vibes regarding Satanism. I mean it's associated with Devil-Worship and being evil way too much and I'm fucking sick of it. There's a difference and people are just too closed minded to see it! Don't the understand it has nothing to do with Satan? Sorry, I just needed to rant.

Hem!

You shouldn't give a shit. Usually it's the same type of people who used to call 'satan worshippers' any group outta their own.

Infidels. Satan worshippers. Bla bla bla.

There is no satan but for people who believe in it, and first position believers are fanatics from any 'monotheist' religion.

So where's the shitty catch? It's that freedom, and separation of church and state are never garanteed forever, and should never be taken for granted.

When the fucking morons grow and multiply too much, the role of gv"t is to put them back to their playground, that is their church, mosque, synagogue, temple, whatever.

When fucking stupid fanatics are looking for public popularity and political power, they may look cool and 'democratic', but fanatics are all the same, and they should never be given one inch of ground in public life. Religion is a matter of privacy and should never become more than that. Demonization of the difference is always a symptom of trouble for freedom and human values.

Christianity isn't monotheistic.

What?

Yes it is...

This post looks extremely familiar. I'm glad we're all quite mature here Vene. Honestly now. Like I've said before, people think that others commit suicide or have their lives ruined do to flaming or mockery. You have no impact on my life or anyone else here's. I bet you're having a good laugh by yourself, but that's just it. You're laughing at your own joke. Now I don't know if you meant this thread to be serious or not, but it looks to me as if you're trying to mock me because you couldn't find a valid way to fight my ideas without being contradicted by myself, urbn, or others.

Come on VeneFrigus.

Out with the truth.

lol, yeah he's up to something.

quote:Originally posted by by_my_lonesome:

Yes it is.

Satan, Jesus and the Father? That's a triumvirate.

I consider myself to be religious neutral, but I get so freaking sick of people who bash Christians and have no idea what it is.That is so queer.

Christians believe in One God, who is manifested in three divine persons, The Father, the Son(that would be Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirt,sort of the messager.

In the Bible, Satan is said to be a former angel who was stirring shit up, and got "fired" Satan is said to be unhappy with this, and attempts to get revenge by denying God souls.

What I wonder about is why someone would worship satan....you have to aknowledge the Christian/Jewish/Islam/ God, and therefore the Bible/Torah/Koran, which says that satan and his folks all get fried.

Why would I care if I had an effect on your life? I have absolutely no contact with you outside of this message board. What matters is I have fun. I mean, I'd probably be rolling on the floor instead of merely mildly amused if this post caused you some sort of trauma, but it's not neccessary.

I wasn't contradicted by anyone, you just kept spouting the same bullshit. Urbn didn't even have an argument, he stuck to expletives.

But, this post does have a serious point. There are satanist out there (mostly Leveyan losers) who complain about people mistreating them and thinking they worship the devil.

I wasn't going to count the holy ghost, because I thought that his quasi-entity status would be brought into question, but ok, then it's a quadrumvirate.

The relationship between satan and god - elevates satan to god status. Objectively speaking of course...

Christians constantly say that they believe in one god though. I understand where you are coming from, but I think the idea is that their is one absolute god that exists as both the three and as one. Bringing in Satan literally (that is as a deity rather then the human condition) he is still just a demi-god and not the true god.

So, if the christians say they believe in one god, why contest it?

Sure, from a literal standpoint, satan can be made into anything, but from a symbolic view, he is as equally important, and equally as powerful as the tremendous trio.

quote:Originally posted by by_my_lonesome:

So, if the christians say they believe in one god, why contest it?

They WORSHIP one god, not only believe in the existence of one. Satan is a god too.

I guess it would depend on you're defenition of what god, or a god is. I agree that satan plays a giant role in the christian faiths, but I always considered the title god (in the christian sense) as the omnipotent power, making christianity monotheistic. Like there is no "a god" only "the god." I think thats how most christians view their faith, although I can't speak for them.

http://www.snuffx.com/bible1.htm

I think you'd have trouble fitting more than one omnipotent deity into a universe...

Omnipotent entities wouldn't have personnel problems.

Edit: why couldn't two omnipotent entities exist? and don't say because omnipotence has to preclude being destroyed.

[This message has been edited by user X (edited 06-05-2003).]

Conflict of interest.

what interest would they have? What would compell them to even use their power?

If they don't have interests I wouldn't count them as deities. Probably not even entities.

Why not?

They wouldn't do anything, if they don't have any motivation to do anything they would just sit around not doing anything. The whole idea of conciousnes is based on the fact that we don't know something. Questions allow for thought to exist.

"Satan is a god too."

If you're refering to Christian belief then you are wrong.

According to them, Satan was an angel, sent to Hell. To Christians, a God means an omnipotent entity. Satan is not omnipotent.

"Satan, Jesus and the Father? That's a triumvirate."

They don't count satan as a God, and Jesus and "the Father" are the same person, I fail to see how that is a "triumvirate"

quote:Originally posted by Rust:



According to them, Satan was an angel, sent to Hell. To Christians, a God means an omnipotent entity. Satan is not omnipotent.

You would think that God would have taken into account what he knew for an absolute that Satan was going to do before he created them and punished him by creating hell.

God could have created hell in advance, put all the angels that would follow Lucifer in hell, created Lucifer, and then waited for Lucifer to do what he knew he would do. That way the stove will be nice and warm for him when he fucks up, as he has to.

Better yet, all the people that will go to hell should just skip the trivialities of their life and get created directly in hell. They're going to wind up there anyway, might as well skip the unneccesary step of their life.

The Christian God could be much more efficient than it is protrayed as if it just got to the point already.

quote:Originally posted by VeneFrigus:

If they don't have interests I wouldn't count them as deities.

Perhaps their motive for existence doesn't include characteristically human concerns. Their omnipotence suggests that they're pure and absolute, so they could be totally engulfed in conflict with each other.

I don't see exactly how this turned into an argument about whether or not Satan is a god but that is not what this is about. The whole idea behind this topic was that Satanists do not worship the devil. Before you speak badly about Satanism you should read the Satanic Bible. It is very clear that Satan is used more as a symbol than an actual being.

The whole idea behind Satanism is pleasure. It's based on the idea that you can do what you want without feeling that you have done something wrong. It's not based on the idea that you should go around sacrificing animals and things like that. Most people believe that all Satanists are violent Christian haters which is not true.

Thank you, Illusory, for proving my point.

quote:Originally posted by user X:

Perhaps their motive for existence doesn't include characteristically human concerns. Their omnipotence suggests that they're pure and absolute, so they could be totally engulfed in conflict with each other.

And if they're omnipotent, wouldn't one of them have to win?

No. It's presumptuous to think that conflict has to have a victory and defeat.

The Moon is in gravitational conflict with the Earth, but victory for Earth means it's demise. So, the STATE of conflict may have a higher value.

The moon and earth aren't omnipotent.

...and that tail flapping around in your face, is your own.

Gothe's "Faust" auctually depicts Satan as God'd best friend. I, personally am a athiest, so i find this funny. But it is a interesting approach to Satan.

Didn't you hear? Last post wins, regardless of content.

If people think they are religious enough, justified enough, etc... Why do you think you should go hunt and act violence against people. That is not what good people do. You are lowering yourself to "satanism" if you do that. BTW: Satanists don't go around killing peopl/animals and causing miscief, you have confused yourself w/ wannabe satanists.

quote:Originally posted by RnNhyde:

What I wonder about is why someone would worship satan....you have to aknowledge the Christian/Jewish/Islam/ God, and therefore the Bible/Torah/Koran, which says that satan and his folks all get fried. Right, the only people able of worshipping satan, are those who believe there is such a thing. Hence, xians and moslims. Jews don't believe in that idea of a 'rebel' angel, since none can ever rebel against the allmighty. Or its not an almighty anymore (Geez, what a basic logical point can't be crossed by so many people, gimme a break).

So basically satan worshippers are those who pretend fighting satan, but really give such a concept its legitimacy, through their childish belief in a god who couldn't be the king over just any of his own creations... Gosh, back to 1st grade...