okay, what would you call someone who belives in god, but hates him and refuses to belive any doctrine about him, insted with the determined view that god hates us all?

i guess that'd be the same as believing in an EVIL god, or satan? so...satanic?

(according to the dictionary, one of the definitions of satanic is "characterized by extreme cruelty or viciousness", so if you believe in a god characterized by such, then you'd believe in satan; at least by my logic.)

A Slayer fan

Malthiests.

They actually exist.

"God Against Humanity...Choose a Side."

Well, I truly believe that G-d has it in for me.

Seems like every day he decides to throw more and more shit up against me in an effort to get me to 86 myself.

They readily identify the gnostic demiurge and rebel against it.

If you hate god then you can't possibly know who or what god is.

In knowing god it's impossible to hate him.

quote:Originally posted by Kikey_Kikeowitz:

Well, I truly believe that G-d has it in for me.

Seems like every day he decides to throw more and more shit up against me in an effort to get me to 86 myself.

Maybe you left something over at his house, and he wants to give it to you.

To the original poster, do you feel that God is playing a huge practical joke on us all, or do you simply feel that God just detests us.

Regardless your feelings are the grounds for your life and vice-versa. If God hates you and you hate God just take some energy that belongs to all and use it yourself for whatever you want. Flip God the middle finger, and throw some of your own living down his gullet.

Then maybe later you'll find that you've been spiting yourself, and you'll get to laugh at your own joke. Either way you'll hopefully have lived a life worth living.

quote:Originally posted by I_Like_Traffic_Lights:

Either way you'll hopefully have lived a life worth living.

After all, that is all one can really hope to accomplish.

i don't belive in god at all, but i was just thinking to myself about what are alternatives that i could accept. i can't buy that god loves us, or that he even cares, so i came to the conclusion that if a god did exist, he must hate us all. either that or he loves us but is sadistic.

its not something i put energy into, and i was just wondering if this belife system, which id bet has a shitload of 'followers' is actaully named.

quote:Originally posted by RAOVQ:

i don't belive in god at all, but i was just thinking to myself about what are alternatives that i could accept. i can't buy that god loves us, or that he even cares, so i came to the conclusion that if a god did exist, he must hate us all. either that or he loves us but is sadistic.

its not something i put energy into, and i was just wondering if this belife system, which id bet has a shitload of 'followers' is actaully named.

I think they're called "teenagers", but seriously what put these thoughts into your head? What's so bad about everything that you can conclude that God hates us? Is it all the "suffering" in the world, what great suffering have you undergone? You have a computer, and have the time to post things about how God hates you on the internet. God gives us the moments, but you have to do something with them. If you ever wanted to be satisfied with any moment in life, you'd better put the moments that lead up to that to good use.

Maltheism seems to be the running philosophy throughout the comic "Preacher" then, no? Damn good books, they is.

quote:Originally posted by RAOVQ:

i can't buy that god loves us, or that he even cares, so i came to the conclusion that if a god did exist, he must hate us all. either that or he loves us but is sadistic.

...or god is indifferent, or unaware of our existence.

btw, i would appreciate some links to Maltheism. My search produced nothing religious.

indifferent.

im not going to do the big sob story about 'how bad my life is', because i, as you put it, have a computer. and, after all, isn't that all that matters.

but enough on all that shit, im not here to pick fights with ignorant wankers.

every religion in the word is founded on the same basic priciple, life is suffering. bhuddism, christianity, all of them that i have ever thought of have aknowledged it. the theory of life is suffering is nothing new, and nothing special, it is just something that we try not to think about while we submerse ourselves in temporary happiness.

that much is clear, and there is really no grounds to agrue that. life is shit.

okay, so, maybe i understand love to be something else, but i always thought it to be that if you could stop this immense suffering on a gigantic scale you would. if someone you loved was suffering (in the more temporal sense), you would do everything in your power to stop it.

god, _could_ stop it. in his infinite power, with all his majesty and charm, could banish all suffering from the universe and allow us all to live in bliss for the rest of our existences. which, is what he would do if he loved us.

god is everything. i blame god for all of this. all of this suffering, pain, misery and shit. this is all his fault, he created us, he has the power to change this without measureable effort. he could create a perfect world, but, inexplicably, doesn't. what other conclusion can i come to?

the fucker hates us.

or, my personal favorite is, that he does not exist.

I'm with you, rao, god is an asshole. The greeks believed that the gods liked to toy with man, set him up with impossible tasks for their own boredom, impregnate the women and watch the offspring suffer as the jealous goddess retaliates, take away their possessions and watch them try to get them back.

It's easy to say "aah, but suffering is there to test our faith!" but i think that's crap. The universe is not even mildly balanced. It is totally askew. There is tremendous physical suffering in this earth, whole life times worth, hopelessness and never ending loneliness, that make my life look better than brittney spears'.

In the few times i have encountered it, it was always too hard to look for long. There is just no help or hope for these people.

God can't possibly exist, because if he did, he'd be charged for crimes against humanity!

quote:Originally posted by user X:

...or god is indifferent, or unaware of our existence.

Agreed. Just makes me think of all the bacteria etc that live in, on and around me that I have no idea about.

quote:Originally posted by RAOVQ:

im not going to do the big sob story about 'how bad my life is', because i, as you put it, have a computer. and, after all, isn't that all that matters.

but enough on all that shit, im not here to pick fights with ignorant wankers.

You crack me up, you honestly do. Everybody I try to help understand something always get all confused, miss all my points, see something that is metaphorical turn it into something concrete because apparently that's all they can understand. I must talk like the God damn riddler and not know it. You having a computer is far from all that matters, but the fact that you have a computer with internet access and the time to do 2000+ posts indicates you are at LEAST middle class, with many many oppurtunities and options that lay before you that many simply do not have. But I don't care that much about you, or you dismissing me as an "ignorant wanker". After all, if I did, I could just easily find out where you live, who you are, find you and slit your throat. Problem solved. Just as if you got your panties in such a twist about all this "suffering" God has bestowed on us you could easily devote your life of "suffering" to ending said "suffering". Starting to get my point? I doubt it. Besides, it's much easier to bitch about something then to go out and actually DO SOMETHING with your pointless and painful life.

quote:Originally posted by RAOVQ:

every religion in the word is founded on the same basic priciple, life is suffering. bhuddism, christianity, all of them that i have ever thought of have aknowledged it. the theory of life is suffering is nothing new, and nothing special, it is just something that we try not to think about while we submerse ourselves in temporary happiness.

that much is clear, and there is really no grounds to agrue that. life is shit.

I really really pity you if you believe that. Because, actually, bhuddism says that life is dillusion and DESIRE is suffering. I'm pretty sure christianity considers life a gift. You are right about one thing however, the theory of life sucks isn't new. Doesn't make it true. Just like the theory of God existing and being an all loving, all caring God isn't new. Doesn't make it true either.

Have you ever considered that the fact you consider life to be shit may be the very reason that your life is shit? If your mind is stubburnly fixated on one thing being the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, in your reality it will be the truth. Like a child who annoyingly pouts about the meal he's never had that tastes so bad, so putrid that he can't be bothered to try it. Maybe he missed out on lobster, or a Big Mac, or baby back ribs, but to him since he believes it so much they're all just steaming piles of rubbish that will envoke vomiting upon ingestion.

Understanding me yet? Ha ha, didn't think so

quote:Originally posted by RAOVQ:

okay, so, maybe i understand love to be something else, but i always thought it to be that if you could stop this immense suffering on a gigantic scale you would. if someone you loved was suffering (in the more temporal sense), you would do everything in your power to stop it.

god, _could_ stop it. in his infinite power, with all his majesty and charm, could banish all suffering from the universe and allow us all to live in bliss for the rest of our existences. which, is what he would do if he loved us.

You seem to have a limited understaning on things, AT BEST. How can you possibly have the good without the bad? Happines is nothing but the cloak of misery, and Misery nothing more then the shadow of happiness. Doesn't that mean anything to you? If I smacked you hard as fuck across the face with the back of my hand it would hurt like a bitch, but eventually it will feel better. Now how would your bitch-ass face have a chance to feel better, which is asociated with good, without me back handing your simple ass? How can we rejoice in cheer as the wall is torn down, if there was no wall in the first place?

This perfect world with no suffering you speak of is not a world of eternal bliss, but of eternal boredom. No point in even starting life if that's how existance existed. Have you ever saw a movie, read a book, or hell even heard a story from a neighbor that didn't have any conflict in it? Did you appreciate your spot on the food chain before you saw a snake eat a rabbit?

quote:Originally posted by RAOVQ:

god is everything. i blame god for all of this. all of this suffering, pain, misery and shit. this is all his fault, he created us, he has the power to change this without measureable effort. he could create a perfect world, but, inexplicably, doesn't. what other conclusion can i come to?

the fucker hates us.

or, my personal favorite is, that he does not exist.

So.....you take no responsibilities for your life, your surroundings, and your actions? Swift man, way to stay in control of your reality. It's nice to know that you can't take it within your own hands to end all of this so called misery, suffering, and pain. Choosing, instead, to blame it on something you don't believe in.

You have it in you to do whatever you want with your life, you have it in you to make life better for yourself and for those around you. Only you can make your reality a better one. So why don't you? Instead of waiting around for someone or something to make it all better, why don't you do it yourself?

quote:Originally posted by Tabiba:

The universe is not even mildly balanced.

How would you know? because you've seen TV pictures of the surface of Mars?

My intuition tells me it is though, just like here on Earth. With such a broad range of good and evil, together - making a diametric harmony as the whole. Perfect balance.

quote:There is tremendous physical suffering in this earth, whole life times worth, hopelessness and never ending loneliness, that make my life look better than brittney spears'.

Britney Spears is your gauge for what has value in life?

In the words of our wayward fascist friend, "That's sad and pathetic."

"god, _could_ stop it. in his infinite power, with all his majesty and charm, could banish all suffering from the universe and allow us all to live in bliss for the rest of our existences. which, is what he would do if he loved us."

At the risk of seeming crazy, lets argue this:

What if the only true "just" thing to do is make us free. The suffering you talk about is all "man-made". What if I wanted to suffer? If he made the whole world live in bliss, I would get fucked, so he wouldn't be acting justly.

"what other conclusion can i come to?

the fucker hates us."

If thats the only conlusion you can think of, then you are really ignorant.

Maybe he:

Is Indifferent.

Made us free.

Is really being good, but your perception of "bad" is wrong...

Exists, but is just a pink monkey and has no real powers...

See 4 more conclusions...

Malthiesm Discussion (http://www.belief.net/boards/discussion_list.asp?boardID=42416)

quote: Besides, it's much easier to bitch about something then to go out and actually DO SOMETHING with your pointless and painful life.

id just like to point out that my own personal belife in nihlism, and i am not actaully held back by what i belive. the beauty of nihilism is that it does not hold you back because the only person you have to answer to is yourself. but thats enough on that.

quote:Because, actually, bhuddism says that life is dillusion and DESIRE is suffering.

first noble truth is basically the existence of dukkha, or suffering. (the best translation i could find is 'there is dukkha...') basically summed up as existence is suffering. to rid yourself of desire is no easy thing, taking many lifetimes.

quote:If your mind is stubburnly fixated on one thing being the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, in your reality it will be the truth.

life not being good is nothing that you can help. this is a little cliched, but do you know anyone how is truely happy? with no doubts, misery or regrets. true happiness does not exist. i totally agree people can be content, and happy, but it is not a state of being.

quote: How can you possibly have the good without the bad?

well, obviously you can't. without a scale you cannot have comparisons. as i have just said, happiness does exist, but does is not a state of existence in our reality. actaully, even if you did not feel happiness, you could sure as hell be made to suffer. you do not have to know happiness to know pain.

quote:This perfect world with no suffering you speak of is not a world of eternal bliss, but of eternal boredom.

im guessing you are religious in some way. think of your heaven (or nirvana or whatever). is that boring? i don't think so. anyway, bordem is dissastisfaction, and that is contrary to the meaning of bliss.

quote:It's nice to know that you can't take it within your own hands to end all of this so called misery, suffering, and pain. Choosing, instead, to blame it on something you don't believe in.

well, suicide is not really something that people like. there is no need to increase the suffering of those i love by a final selfish act.

and, i do not blame anything on god, i do not belive in him. what we have around us is our creation. if, amazingly, god exists, then i do blame him, after all, he created this.

quote:Only you can make your reality a better one. So why don't you?

i agree completely, there is no diety to save me, and i am. im not sure why you get the impression that i hate my life or whatever ( http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif) to those who ive spoken to), there is a big difference between aknowledging that life is shit, and falling victim to it.

quote:With such a broad range of good and evil, together - making a diametric harmony as the whole. Perfect balance.

your joking right? a third of the world is starving due to the other two thirds not sharing. what makes up for that evil? how do you make up for the torture and murder of entire races? a rainbow?

quote:What if the only true "just" thing to do is make us free. The suffering you talk about is all "man-made". What if I wanted to suffer? If he made the whole world live in bliss, I would get fucked, so he wouldn't be acting justly.

the world is cruel. not just the human world. do you think kill or be killed is a nice way to live. evolution is the creation of the struggle to exist, not a walk in the park.

quote:Maybe he:

Is Indifferent.

Made us free.

Is really being good, but your perception of "bad" is wrong...

Exists, but is just a pink monkey and has no real powers...

indifferent? maybe he is, but i am indifferent to people, and i don't wish them cancer. i don't create cancer for them.

free? well, we are free. free with eternal pain. why not be free with no pain at all? why are freedom and happiness oxymoroned so often? anyway, if god existed he could do anything, even free and happy.

perception? i know the difference between pain and pleasure. unless your a masochist, your not having a good time.

the last one defies my definition of god.

and im done. i hope you all learnt something.

quote:Originally posted by RAOVQ:

a third of the world is starving due to the other two thirds not sharing. what makes up for that evil?

Sally Struthers - first flayed, then liposuctioned to death on national TV would be a start. (that's not the moral opposition to starvation, but you sed "make up", implying vengeance, or reparation.)

“indifferent? maybe he is, but i am indifferent to people, and i don't wish them cancer. i don't create cancer for them.”

How has God “wished” cancer on people? Please stop making crap up.

How did God “create” cancer? Basically all types of cancer are the results of our bad diets, lifestyles, habits etc.; thus what I meant with “man-made”.



“free? well, we are free. free with eternal pain. why not be free with no pain at all?”

A few posts ago you said, “existence is suffering”, please make up your mind. Even so, name a suffering directly linked to God (I dare you, if you even found one, that would be proof of his existence, something atheists and theists have been searching for all their lives).

“know the difference between pain and pleasure. unless your a masochist, your not having a good time.”

Lol that’s just it! If God would make a place without suffering, what happens to the masochists? The only “just” thing to do is let them be free and choose suffering or happiness for themselves. You see the “suffering” you are talking about is “man-made”. Again, I dare you to find a suffering directly linked to God.



“the last one defies my definition of god”

Why? Because it he were a pink monkey all your whining would be mute?

It could be a long shot, but I'd guess you come from a Judeo-Christian background. Your view of God as "all loving", "omnipotent" and thus "responsible for suffering" is an ignorant belief, many times brought by "rebelling" against your religion. I may be wrong though...

god created everything (some people say god is everything). everything that happens is his fualt. he created us, he created the universe, he created everything. for better or worse, he is responsible.

and i was using cancer more metaphorically that literal.

"god created everything (some people say god is everything). everything that happens is his fualt. he created us, he created the universe, he created everything. for better or worse, he is responsible."

A few posts ago you said, that your "personal favorite" was that God didn't exist, yet now you say he created everything...

If he didn't exist, who's fault would all this ,"metaphorical cancer", be? Humans.

So, If I go and rape your mother, it would be God's fault. Not mine because I used my free will to rape her, but God's, because he created me with free will? Please...

I can see it now, pleading it court: "Im not Guilty !! God made me, it's his fault!" lol

If God exists, and he created us with freedom, then WE are to blame for what WE do.

its not my problem if you can't grasp a simple idea.

Nope, you have evidently more problems than that. For starters, you can't even reply with any good and substancial argument.

Secondly, its not my fault you can't grasp a simple idea. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)