Religion is the main reason why we have wars! people cant acccept others ideas and they freak out and kill them. I think people just turn to religion as an excuse. Like i used to be a christan(sp?) but then i realized that if there was a god, then WHY THE FUCK ARE WE HERE? life sucks and is short so i say live it to the best you can, dont be all like "oh no i cant do that my god wont like me!" bull shit. there is no god, if there was why isnt jesus here now to help us out? why did he only come out to the world over 2000 years ago, when the world is in the hands of so very few men with large nukes? there is no afterlife, we dont get rencarnated, we dont go to hell if we are bad, we just dissapear. we are gone, there is nothing else. LIVE WITH IT. people are just afraid of death so they make all this shit up.

I always welcome new ideas.

Boy, that's a new and original idea.

Never heard that point of view before. You're some kinda philosophical genius.

really? wow cool i feel special! *yey* no i just felt like ranting, and sharing my point of veiw. Glad you enjoyed it http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif)

How come I never get any of these profound revelations?

I forget who said it, most likely Aristotle or the like, but I find it fitting especially with all the irony going on anyway.

The only people free from the feeling of ignorance are......the ignorant.

Think about it.

quote:Originally posted by Raz:

really? wow cool i feel special! *yey* no i just felt like ranting, and sharing my point of veiw. Glad you enjoyed it http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif)

good god your stupid! kikey was making fun of you and so is EVERYONE else who replied *including me* Damn your a stupid fuck.

ahh love you too!

Just beacuse im narrow minded, ignorent, bitchy, and stupid MEANS ABSOLUTLY NOTHING!~

being insaine is fun. haha.

quote:The only people free from the feeling of ignorance are......the ignorant.

All that we can truly know, is that we know nothing.

That's one of the only philisophical quotes I know... I just wanna look clever!!!!!!!1

*cries*



(P.S. the 1 is intentional. Do not flame me.)

quote:Originally posted by sp0rkius:

All that we can truly know, is that we know nothing.



I don't think that's true.

And i also think that the only reason people quote it is because it comes outta the mouth of an ooooo scaryily famous philosophy guy.

People say loadsa quotes that they don't even understand, never mind have their opinion on whether or not it's valid.

Famous people are stupid.

i witnessed this thread at the top of the religion forum, with eleven replies.

wow.

now it's up to twelve replies.

something is disturbingly wrong....

Sure there was a God and sure Jesus helps us out, and sure we can get rencarnated and go to an afterlife! just God and Jesus don't like you, thats all.

but seriously your comment is the exact thing that causes war, lack of acceptance of others beliefs, you just became the hypocrite in one single post, wow. You should keep to yourself and look for flaws in you speech and wording, dim-wit. I suggest you read the bible maybe God will favor you. And the fact is everyone is afriad of death, we just have different ways of handinling it. Some people prefer to think that there is something to look forward to, as for your way, you just ignore it and hope it never comes.

By the way, the word Evil and Bad come from religion and are defined by it, your stupid skeptisim and suspicious nature is the reason why christianity didn't work for you

[This message has been edited by Hammer&Sickle (edited 06-20-2003).]

Religion is not a bad thing. The people who use religion for their own personal gain are bad. Saying religion is bad is like saying America is bad. We the masses are not evil, it is our rulers.

quote:Originally posted by buddy dobbs:

Religion is not a bad thing. The people who use religion for their own personal gain are bad. Saying religion is bad is like saying America is bad. We the masses are not evil, it is our rulers.

Religion is a tool just like any other. A tool cannot be bad, but it's user sure as hell can.

Personally, I don't care to be a link in the chain of someone elses tool.

wow, i thought the point of this thing was to post up your oppinion... hmm...

quote:Originally posted by Raz:

wow, i thought the point of this thing was to post up your oppinion... hmm...

It is Raz, but with all due respect, from what you've previously said, it seems like you haven't given a great deal of thought to God and such.

Don't ever disregard the existence of God.

Try and work out yourself what god is instead of taking 'religeons' word for it.

Think about your own mind and how it relates to life.

I've given this alot of thought. Add my thoughts to a ton of conversations with my best friend, who thinks about shit like this all the time.. He's always wondering. Well, as blunt as I can be right here, Raz has a point. He didnt use super vocabulary to say it, but that doesnt matter.. It makes sense. Now lay off the guy. You dont need to type/talk in old english to be intelligent, or show that you've put thought behind what you're saying.

Lovely, ther is absolutely NO point in what he said. So War's happen because of peoples ideas, Yes some wars are inspired by religion but some are stopped by it War is nature, so deal with it. People die for a cause, is that bad? sure civilian deaths are bad, but that is the nature of war, deaths occur so lovely go die, we don't need people who stick up for ignorance

in the words of the great George Carlin, speaking about the Ten Commandments:

"Thou Shalt not kill".... Well the church doesnt seem to have a problem with that, more people were killed in the name of God than anything else!"

*shakes head*

quote:Originally posted by buddy dobbs:

Saying religion is bad is like saying America is bad. We the masses are not evil, it is our rulers.

that last line alone, is a somewhat scary thought. according to that thought, each individual is good, yet as a whole, the concept is bad. you may counter that argument by saying that you didn't say the whole was bad, but just the leaders.

still, though, the leaders would likely view themselves as good, and find THEIR rulers, or just the followers to be the problem. no one's willing to take the blame.

personally, i think that each individual who isn't actively attempting to change their entire sect for the better, to be deserving of blame, and therefore part of the problem.

hm. i guess i just said, ''if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.''

quote:Originally posted by Beany:

It is Raz, but with all due respect, from what you've previously said, it seems like you haven't given a great deal of thought to God and such.

Don't ever disregard the existence of God.

Try and work out yourself what god is instead of taking 'religeons' word for it.

Think about your own mind and how it relates to life.

Excuse me? I have though of "god" and "religion" quite abit, and I have come to the conclusion that there are to many ideas, and none of them realy answers what is out there. Well think about it. If you kill a fly it just kinda dissapears, right? Well thats the same for us, humans. Just because we have more intelegence then any other animal on this planet doesnt mean that we get something special when we die. Same with the begining with the universe. It was not created by some "higher being". Im not to sure of how it was created, and I really dont give a fuck, really. We are here now, so dont waste your life! Live it well with out worries of what might happen after you die. "god" is watching you now, he loves you so much. Yah, right. If god loves you SO much, and he is SO powerful, then why is there so many types of religions? why is there so much war and hatered going around? Why are people dieing painful deaths? Why are so many children suffering and dieing? There are so many questions like that that have absolutly no good answer to them that proves that god is there. If there is a god, then where is he?

quote:Originally posted by Raz:

Why are people dieing painful deaths? Why are so many children suffering and dieing?

Because God loves us LOL

You think he'd have people like Vlad the Impaler or Adolf Hitler die instead of innocent children.. Born with sin? Give me a break! That's total bullshit, unless they were somehow sinnin' while in their mother's stomach. Total bullshit, total bullshit..

[Edit:] If "God" loves us, then he has a real demented, and gross way of showing it.

[This message has been edited by Lovley (edited 06-21-2003).]

Raz you know nothing of God, and if you do then your ignorance doesn't show it. How do you know that flies don't go to a heaven? and as for lovely and people who ask if God loves us than why do people get hurt. The fact is everything has a consequence, he lets us have free will, and if he lets us have free will he does not change the mind of a killer because he has the free will to kill someone. God loves us but the fact is that he can't make you happy. Happiness and Love are alot different

"Why are people dieing painful deaths? Why are so many children suffering and dieing"

Who killed them? God.. Please prove to us one instance (just one) where God has killed someone...

There are many explanations to this, you just choose to believe that God HAS to protect us and HE is resposible for all of it, an ignorant belief.

I have to dissagree. Happiness IS love.

If someone loves you, like...your parents, they don't always make you happy do they? therefore I am correct in saying that happiness and love are seperate and do not necessarily effect one another

hmm... yes that is true in SOME cases i guess.. Well you see im just trying to prove to you that if god is there, he would prove it to us. If he trully loves us, then wouldnt he protect us? If he is really there, then that means that he is our father, and he would treat us like his children. Well i say that he is a VERY irrisponsible parent.

quote:Originally posted by Raz:

...if god is there, he would prove it to us. If he trully loves us, then wouldnt he protect us? If he is really there, then that means that he is our father, and he would treat us like his children.

please don't confuse me with someone who's trying to change your mind; but, what makes you think that any human being would be able to correctly comprehend the concept of a god and/or its reasoning?

i say both of you are completely misled if you think that your opinion is correct, and (think that) enough so to try to transform others to believe as you do. i also think both of you are wasting your time with this ''discussion.''

<patiently awaits the formation of an intelligent thought-provoking thread.>

[This message has been edited by humble (edited 06-22-2003).]

"If he is really there, then that means that he is our father, and he would treat us like his children. Well i say that he is a VERY irrisponsible parent."

Again, he would not be responsible for man-made grievance.

This a great quote from Futurama:

God: "Being God isn't easy, if you do too much, people get dependent on youy; if you do too little they loose hope. You've got to use a light touch. When you do things right, people wont be sure you've done anything at all."

quote:Originally posted by Rust:



Who killed them? God.. Please prove to us one instance (just one) where God has killed someone...



I'll do better than that:

God slaughters 70 men for simply looking into the Ark.

(1 Sam 6:19) "And he (God) slew some of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they looked into the ark of the LORD; he slew seventy men of them, and the people mourned because the Lord had made a great slaughter among the people."

Korah questions Moses' leadership and God makes the earth open up and swallow his people: men, women, and children.

(Num 16:20-21) "Then the LORD spoke to Moses and to Aaron, saying: Separate yourselves from this congregation, so that I may consume them in a moment. They fell on their faces, and said, "O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one person sin and you become angry with the whole congregation?"

(Num 16:27) (...)"and Dathan and Abiram came out and stood at the entrance of their tents, together with their wives , their children , and their little ones."

(Num 16:32-33) "The earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, along with their households--everyone who belonged to Korah and all their goods. So they with all that belonged to them went down alive into Sheol; the earth closed over them, and they perished from the midst of the assembly."

(Then God burned some other followers)

(Num 16:35) "And fire came out from the LORD and consumed the two hundred fifty men offering the incense."

(Then the whole congregation were upset about what God had done)

(Num 16:41) "On the next day, however, the whole congregation of the Israelites rebelled against Moses and against Aaron, saying, "You have killed the people of the LORD."

(God is further angered)

(Num 16:45) "Get away from this congregation, so that I may consume them in a moment." And they fell on their faces.

(God strikes them with a plague. Moses finally intervenes to prevent the entire congregation from being killed).

(Num 16:49) Those who died by the plague were fourteen thousand seven hundred, besides those who died in the affair of Korah.

God drowns all the men, women, and children on the earth during the flood story:

(Gen 7:21) And all flesh died that moved on the earth, birds, domestic animals, wild animals, all swarming creatures that swarm on the earth, and all human beings;

God throws boulders down from heaven onto fleeing Amorites

(Joshua 10:11) As they fled before Israel, while they were going down the slope of Beth-horon, the LORD threw down huge stones from heaven on them as far as Azekah, and they died; there were more who died because of the hailstones than the Israelites killed with the sword.

God kills scores of innocent babies and children.

This is the popular Exodus story in which God is imagined to strike down innocent babies and children for the actions of a Pharaoh whose heart Yahweh himself had hardened (thus rendering the Pharaoh incapable of complying with God's demands).

(Exo 11:10) Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh; but the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let the people of Israel go out of his land.

(Here God has hardened Pharaoh's heart and then turns around and punishes Pharaoh's "decision" by murdering innocent babies and children)

(Exo 12:29) At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the prisoner who was in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of the livestock.

God kills the children of Israel who wanted some meat.

(The people of Israel complain and God gets angry)

(Num 11:1) ...Then the fire of the LORD burned against them, and consumed some outlying parts of the camp.

(The Israelites get tired of eating manna (something vaguely like corn flakes). They start crying and wishing they were still slaves in Egypt, so God gets angry again and says)

(Num 11:19-20) You shall eat (meat)... for a whole month-- until it comes out of your nostrils and becomes loathsome to you-- because you have rejected the LORD who is among you, and have wailed before him, saying, 'Why did we ever leave Egypt?'"

(Num 11:31) Then a wind went out from the LORD, and it brought quails from the sea and let them fall beside the camp.

(The people work all day and night gathering their meat and as they are taking their first bite suddenly and unexpected...)

(Num 11:33-34)...the anger of the LORD was kindled against the people, and the LORD struck the people with a very great plague. So that place was called Kibroth-hattaavah, because there they buried the people who had the craving.

God kills a man for not impregnating his brother's wife.

(Gen 38:9-10) But since Onan knew that the offspring would not be his, he spilled his semen on the ground whenever he went in to his brother's wife, so that he would not give offspring to his brother. What he did was displeasing in the sight of the LORD, and he put him to death also.

My parents are pretty fundamentalist christians and they also maintain, like the starter of this thread, that religion is bad/evil, etc.. I don't really understand why - maybe they feel that anything institutionalized is somehow invalid, only personal beliefs count for anything, which I guess has some reason to it.

quote:Originally posted by Lovley:

Because God loves us LOL

You think he'd have people like Vlad the Impaler or Adolf Hitler die instead of innocent children..

In case you haven't noticed, those guys DID die.

They've been dead for quite some time now, by the by.

quote:Originally posted by Kikey_Kikeowitz:

In case you haven't noticed, those guys DID die.

They've been dead for quite some time now, by the by.



I know, Kikey_Kikeowitz.. What I mean/meant is that he'd focus on having them die *before* babies. Babies die everyday, but somehow guys like the Unabomber and Timothy M. (Oklahoma City Bombing) live through long enough to commit crimes like they did.

That's because there is no supreme puppetmaster manipulating the actions of human beings.

If someone wanted to blow up a building, they could and there would most likely be nothing to stop them because securing everything at all times everywhere is currently not possible.

amen Dark_Magneto

[This message has been edited by Lovley (edited 06-22-2003).]

True Dat.

"I'll do better than that:"

You and I know you've proven nothing...

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

"I'll do better than that:"

You and I know you've proven nothing...

hmm, Dark_Magneto just showed you several instances from the book of "God", where "God" killed many, many people. Several for rediculous reasons too.. I think he just answered your request: "Please prove to us one instance (just one) where God has killed someone..."

Oh hey, another thing. If adam and eve were the first people, then where the hell did the dinosaurs come from? And all of the old fossils of the homosapians? If god is "real", then please, tell me, where did all this come from? People didnt just make it up to prove you all that god isnt there and science is right. You can make shit like that up, but you wouldnt be able to keep it a secret for THAT long! Just like the United states and the trip to the moon. If they reallt went, then why didnt the american austernauts not die of radiation poisoning (sp), but the Russian austernauts who also went into space latter died from radiation. We soon found out that the government was lieing. Scientist have been finding fossils of dinosaurs and homosapiens for over 50 years. If it was fake we would have known it by now. Trust me, nobody can keep a world-wide secret for that long. And another thing, why was I taught that god is all loving, but when you read the bible, he is savage, very mean and scary?

First off, we did go to the moon, and if you knew ANYTHING about the space program known as CCCP then you would know that the russians really weren't the best at keeping there payload alive as NASA was, and that Radiation happened because of the poor design of there capsule. They also were expsoed to some radioactive chemicals inside. And God loves us all. But do your parents shield you from the truth? because it seems thats what alot of you are asking for him or her to do, and i think thatt if you ever had overbearing parents you would really wish you didn't and God does not control or intterupt aspects of peoples live unless they ask him to (personal belief) and that babies die by disease and such so God cannot always stop them. And er um Adam and Eve were the first HUMANS possible humans that could understand religion not human relations or cousins of homosapiens. And it does say that God made all the animals first including dinosaurs

"hmm, Dark_Magneto just showed you several instances from the book of "God", where "God" killed many, many people. Several for rediculous reasons too.. I think he just answered your request: "Please prove to us one instance (just one) where God has killed someone...""

He quoted passages from the Christian bible, you assume its the "book of God" which you haven't proven, thus no proof at all.

If those quotes are proof of God killing someone, then it proves God exists... Why are there atheist, if by just quotting some passages you prove his existance? Because that does not prove anything.

Thus he has not answered my request.

Plus, I doubt Dark_Magneto believes what he quotes as proof, hence why I said : "You and I know you've proven nothing..."

Wow, you people are gullible and stupid. You must belive whatever people tell you, dont you?

I say there is NO GOD> now prove me wrong. I have all the proof in the world that there is no god. First off, the bible. What a load of shit. Its so gay and fake you could tell it just by the first page.

*yey 100 posts for me* http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

does anyone know that kids song "jesus loves the little children"

does he also love the children that his "god" is letting die of starvation and disease all over the world. that just doesnt make sense to me. Raz has a point.

the reason the middle east is fucked up is because of religion.

quote:Originally posted by thecoolestkidintown:

does anyone know that kids song "jesus loves the little children"

does he also love the children that his "god" is letting die of starvation and disease all over the world. that just doesnt make sense to me. Raz has a point.

the reason the middle east is fucked up is because of religion.

Raz doesn't have a point. He's an idiotic pseudo-intellectual who only thinks that he knows something.



The reason the middle east is fucked up IS because of religion, but it's more of a cultural difference that's making it so 'fucked up.'

If I believed in Jesus, I'm sure he'd love the starving children too. It's idiotic to assume otherwise, as the fucking song's lyrics say "all the little children of the world."

In case oyu haven't noticed, G-d isn't always around to bail us out. He doesn't rule over us. We have free will, to freedom to do whatever we want, as far as he goes(except for the 10 commandments).

Now, there's a catch this free will. It also comes with a clause I call the "Shit Happens" clause.

Freedom does not mean happiness. But it IS freedom. Shit happens.

quote:Originally posted by Raz:

I say there is NO GOD> now prove me wrong. I have all the proof in the world that there is no god. First off, the bible. What a load of shit. Its so gay and fake you could tell it just by the first page.

I say there is a god. Prove ME wrong.

You bible proof is mediocre at best. You have offered up no facts proving the bible to be "a load of shit."

And, as for it being 'gay,' well that's just your opinion. BTW, your opinion cements my proof of you being a foolish 14 year old with no actual knowledge and who hasn't read a g-ddamn word of the bible.

And you guys havent proved that there's an invisible man controlling everything either..

So we're back to square one.

quote:Originally posted by Kikey_Kikeowitz:

We have free will, to freedom to do whatever we want, as far as he goes(except for the 10 commandments).

Now, there's a catch this free will. It also comes with a clause I call the "Shit Happens" clause.

Freedom does not mean happiness. But it IS freedom. Shit happens.



hmm, Thou Shalt Not Kill. What they forgot to add is "Thou Shalt Not Kill. Unless others dont believe in me, then slaughter their asses"

listen to George Carlin sometime, talking about the 10 commandments. He might be a comedian, but he's only funny because he's talking about real shit, and because he's given it thought.. not "Oh I was at the dry cleaner's today, and this dude bumped into me and I was like oh my god! hahah"

The reason why the Middle East is so fucked up IS NOT BECAUSE OF RELIGION, if you ware talking about palestine and shit? no it is because so idiot in the U.N thought it would be funny to put a Jewish nation right on top of another one. Well that didn't work well and now look what has happened. Palestinians can't figure out a way to talk so they just kill people with there bombs and the Jews just consider palestinians second citizens from the start. Both are at fault and they should both be destroyed to make a new nation. But as for the rest of the place (Iraq and such) they just have radicals who try to use religion as proof of there actions. and by the by, religion is different from GOD

" I have all the proof in the world that there is no god. First off, the bible. What a load of shit"

This is the prime example of the ignorance that has plagued this thread and this board.

If you think you have "proven" the bible, dogma or belief of any certain Religion wrong; it does not mean in anyway that God doesn't exist, or that he is "evil". It only "proves" that those dogmas or beliefs are wrong.

Basically all of the guys posting that ignorant dribble come from a Judeo-Christian background. They are now trying to rebel and come here for reassurance that their “rebelling” is right.

Dearest Rust,

Magneto was simply implying that if he did exist and the bible in proof of his existence that God must be an evil, vain, ruthless, childish individual who really hates it when people aren’t constantly stroking his ego.

Also Kikey_Kikeowitz,

The point is in a real debate the person who believes that something exists must prove their belief to the person who does not, otherwise there is no case in either direction. To explain I will use an example. In the case of someone robbing a house (for the sake of this argument let’s assume they committed the crime in the US) The prosecution must provide evidence of his guilt, and then the defense will try to discredit the evidence with testimony and evidence of their own. If it went the other way around and the defendant was guilty until proven innocent then the trial would already lean in favor of the defense and it would be an unfair trial. So, if you wish to debate god’s existence, provide proof of it, or there is no argument, and BTW: using faith as an argument simply implies that you have no logical argument so you are just going to plug your ears and go “la la la la la.”

Dearest lady_dw,

I care not what Dark was implying, for that was not what I was asking. My request still stands unfulfilled. Furthermore, my reply was to Lovely's statement, that Dark had in fact answered my request, which he has not.

Therefore my reply and request still stand.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Yes he did provide evidence against you. He proved in your own Bible that God kills. God's "reasons" don't matter. Who you asked also doesn't matter. If there is a question posed and it is answered, you can't deny the answer based on a technicality.

quote:Originally posted by lady_dw:

...and BTW: using faith as an argument simply implies that you have no logical argument so you are just going to plug your ears and go “la la la la la.”

rofl

I think Raz's idea is absolutely correct. It all makes logical sence to me. Why the fuck should we worship someone who doesn't even excist? Why should we, humans, care so much about sins? Sins are meant to be! What do you think life is all about? People rave over "god" and it's bullshit to me. My thought is.....some old guy got bored and wrote the "bible", the "testament" (whatever you wanna call it)to watch people dwell over it for entertainment. Why belive in something as real as monsters in your closet or flying elephants dancing in space? why waste your time? Life is short. Live it without worrying. Without regret. Do what you want.....not what some book says is the right thing to do.

How do you know that flies don't go to a heaven? - It's called knowledge.

The fact is everything has a consequence, he lets us have free will, and if he lets us have free will he does not change the mind of a killer because he has the free will to kill someone.-You give yourself freewill. Not "he" a.k.a. "god".

God loves us but the fact is that he can't make you happy.-Then why do you dwell over this "thing"? Air does not love. "It" cannot love unless your stupid enough to belive "he" can.

quote:Originally posted by Raz:

Religion is the main reason why we have wars! people cant acccept others ideas and they freak out and kill them. I think people just turn to religion as an excuse. Like i used to be a christan(sp?) but then i realized that if there was a god, then WHY THE FUCK ARE WE HERE? life sucks and is short so i say live it to the best you can, dont be all like "oh no i cant do that my god wont like me!" bull shit. there is no god, if there was why isnt jesus here now to help us out? why did he only come out to the world over 2000 years ago, when the world is in the hands of so very few men with large nukes? there is no afterlife, we dont get rencarnated, we dont go to hell if we are bad, we just dissapear. we are gone, there is nothing else. LIVE WITH IT. people are just afraid of death so they make all this shit up.

FIANNLY!!!!!!!!! we have a good post and perhaps a good poster Keep up the good work

I prefer to think of religion as double-edged sword. Society is screwed with it, and screwed without it.

With Religion:

People get angry at each other for not believing the same thing. Then they go to war over it.

Without Religion:

People figure there is no point, and that they can do whatever they want. Enter anarchy and more war.

Take your pick.

I strongly disagree with you Accesser37. You don't need religion to have morals. Don't people see that there is enough goodness in mankind to see that life is more important than death? If not, I fear we may soon be an extinct species...

"He proved in your own Bible that God kills"

That is laughable! You ASSUME Im Catholic, Jewish or Christian for that matter.

Did I say I was any of those? Please don't put words in my mouth.

Secondly, I my reason for requesting "proof" was to show Raz that automatically pointing a finger at a God, and saying he is guilty, with out proof, is ignorant and stupid. Just like putting words in someone else's mouth http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

"Who you asked also doesn't matter."

Did I say it did? I only said I don't care whats he was implying, I just want an answer.

"you can't deny the answer based on a technicality."

I did not deny it because it came from him, I denied it because:

a) It's no proof at all.

b) You said he was "implying" something. I care not what he is implying.

lady_dw,

Quite right, religion is not required for one to have morals. However, for some, it is. I would be willing to bet that without religion there would be a lot more columbine-like shootings.

I'm not saying everyone would become a bad person, but that there would be more bad people than usual.

*ahem*

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>

<LI>Hammer&Sickle-

SHUT UP. YOU KNOW NOTHING&gt; the middle east war and shit was all started up because of religion, dont you follow the news? Fuck, i thought you had at least SOME intelegence inside of your fucking head, but it seams not.

<LI>Im glad i have collected a small crowd of people who actually UNDERSTAND of what i am trying to point out to you people.

<LI>I also appologise that my wording for my topic and whatever i say is the shits. Im not the most inteligent person.. well ok yah i do kick ass, but still.

<LI>Oh and to inform you all, i am a Girl.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif) yey.

<LI>IF there is a "god", and he trully loved us, then why doesnt he prove it to us? why doesnt he send down an angle, or his son or something? why were all the visits from god and such all taken place durring the time of the bible.

<LI>and also explaine to me why are there so many types of religion? and they also have the same "vage" (i use that term losely) proof that it is the "real deal"?

<LI>It depresess me to see people throw their lives away to so much bull-shit. Why cant people understand that im trying to make them realize that (this is bassed on me, my friends, and relatives) once you realize that there is no god and all that other bull-shit, that your life gets SO MUCH BETTER! no more guilty concous (sp), no more thanking the unknown higher being for the shitty day you had, and so on. If sin is so bad, then why is it so fucking great?

</UL>

wow.. i just read the thread over again, and its very confuzing and lost. do you people remember what i was bitching about? i was stating the fact that religion sucks, god is not there, and you people are depressing. Religion sucks, and yes people do kill others for what religion they are, wars are also started for it too. Just look at Hitler. That was a religion bassed war (dont remember what war it was.) people are stupid, and yes i also say that to myself. you are stupid people who belive in shit. I really mean it too. You gullible gullible people... tisk.



P.S -im fucked up so if this makes no sence, eat me.

wow some of you people are scary , like Rust, and Hammer&Sickle, open your minds. I have been very open minded on this "debate" if you must say, and all you have done is bashed us untill you are satisfied that we are either bowing down to the "GREAT WILL OF GOD" or mashed into a pulp. So, i guess what i am saying i good job for being even more annoying and pissy then i could ever be. congradualtions.

Please do not include me in any "band wagon" if you do not know my beliefs.

If I seem pissy it's because your ignorant posts have made me this way.

Again, for the ignorant beings such yourself:

If you think you've proven a dogma or belief wrong, that in NO way means God does not exist, or that he is evil. It just means that dogma or belief is wrong.

Please take time to read that a few times.

wow, i am so fuking lost.. what the hell are you talking about? can you explain it in non-smart-ass terms for me? thanks im a little stupid.

Please allow me to get in-character...

Ok ill explain it to you stupid monkey ass peanut brain people. That IS how you like it, isn't? A Moronic and error filled post ?

"If you think you've proven a dogma or belief wrong, that in NO way means God does not exist, or that he is evil. It just means that dogma or belief is wrong."

That means that if you say:

"the bible is bullshit! It says God killed and shit! If he'd loved us he wouldnt kill us!! bitch, that meanss he doesnt exist"

Then you are wrong. You haven't proven that god doesn't exist or that he is evil. Just that that certain belief is wrong.

Are you still lost?

Basically you just come here to validate your religious rebellion.

Rust~

I apologise for assuming your faith. I assumed that since you appeared to be monotheistic you probably followed one of the more common religions. Try to be less ambiguous when you ask a question. Pray tell, what religion do you follow? I do understand that just because one religion is wrong that it doesn't mean they are all wrong, but none the less I am an atheist because I have not found a religion that has true evidence of their god, and science has provided more than enough evidence in the way of god's non-existence.

Accesser37~

Yeah. I guess it's kinda sad. I just hope that eventually religion will, at least, have less influence on important issues that should be handled by science. If you think about it, Atheists have better morals than theists simply because we don't need to be motivated by an eternity of torture just to live a kind and charitable life.

[This message has been edited by lady_dw (edited 06-24-2003).]

[This message has been edited by lady_dw (edited 06-24-2003).]

"Try to be less ambiguous when you ask a question.Pray tell, what religion do you follow?"

My religious beliefs, have nothing to do with my request. I did not limit it to certain religions, just proof in general that God has killed someone. You as an atheist should understand, If you ever find proof that would mean God exists, thus negating any atheist belief.

" science has provided more than enough evidence in the way of god's non-existence."

Please enlighten us with that evidence. I thought almost all atheists believed you cannot prove non-existance.

Religion is supposed to control the mind of it's people and keep peace and etc.. youknow it was a good think... but some stupid greedy morons just took advantage of it of their own purpose and Fucked it up.. which caused lots of wars.. and problems.. and all kinds of shits.

I understand now, sorry I opened my mouth. As I said before, from the way you phrased the question, I misunderstood it.

There is no concrete evidence, but in a phiilosophical debate most questions can be answered. It basically boils down to two paths: Choose to be happy with life as you know it now and exist for existence's sake without believing in life after death, or live your life according to a religion and spend it waiting for death.

I like the way George Carlin put it "Just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself."

quote:Originally posted by lady_dw:

I like the way George Carlin put it "Just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself."

The guy is seriously the man.

you know many scientific theories are exactly the same way.....

from michiu kaku's hyperspace.

"When performing long and difficult calculations, and then suddenly having thousands of terms miraculously add up to zero,"

so zero is the reference point, to make it basic,

5-5=0 or the standard model

4-4=0 or quantum mechanics

(5+10)-15=0 or superstring theory

(6*6)-36=0 or timeless motionless universe

those are the 4 theories of everything so far?

which is correct?

whichever you choose in a way aren't you just....

"I like the way George Carlin put it "Just pick your theory, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.""

as kaku continues....

"As physicists know, "accidents" do not appear without a reason. Today physicists know that these "accidents" are an indication that a symetry is at work."

"It basically boils down to two paths"

That's an opinion, it could boil down to many paths...

Not all religions believe in life after death. Plus even if you are an atheist you can still "spend it (life) waiting for death".

Same way a theist could live his life " for existence's sake without believing in life after death"

Im glad you understood, and Im sorry if it was confusing at first.

HEY SEXY !!! Raz i love you !!!

Religion makes me want to kill myself and god hates you all

quote:Originally posted by warweed12:

HEY SEXY !!! Raz i love you !!!

Awe, thanks baby! I love you too~

quote:Originally posted by Rust:



You ASSUME Im Catholic, Jewish or Christian for that matter.

Did I say I was any of those? Please don't put words in my mouth.



no one here gives a fuck.

Rust, all you are proving to me that you are too much of a stiff-ass to actually HEAR of what I said at the begining of the thread. Religion sucks ass hardcore and all you can do is sit there and cry about how "god is real, blah blah blah." You have givin me NO proof that religion is good, and as great as some people have said.

Remember: If life sucks, why not just end it all?

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

"It basically boils down to two paths"

That's an opinion, it could boil down to many paths...

Not all religions believe in life after death. Plus even if you are an atheist you can still "spend it (life) waiting for death".

Same way a theist could live his life " for existence's sake without believing in life after death"

Im glad you understood, and Im sorry if it was confusing at first.

This is true, however that still leaves two paths. Everybody has the choice to live life for existence's sake without believing in life after death or spend life waiting for death. This is regardless of their beliefs. You seem to be a very enlightened person and I apologise if I misjudged you. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

--Raz, I think you missed Rust's point entirely. I suggest you re-read the posts.



[This message has been edited by lady_dw (edited 06-25-2003).]

"no one here gives a fuck."

Yet again you prove that your a stupid, ignorant being.

I was talking to lady_dw, not you, so please shut up.

"Religion sucks ass hardcore...You have givin me NO proof that religion is good"

YOU have giving us NO proof that religion is bad! You have just given opinions! Religion can be good or bad, there have been many deaths brought by religious beliefs, but there have been many lives saved also.

Second of all, please tell me where in this thread have I said that God is real, PLEASE tell me! I would love to know.

" If life sucks, why not just end it all?"

You're the one that has only given a pessimistic point of view about life or religion, PLEASE end your life, we would be very happy.

"live life for existence's sake without believing in life after death or spend life waiting for death."

A better phrase would be:

Live life without fearing(waiting for) death, or spend life fearing(waiting for) for death.

You see saying "without believing in life after death" implies that if you do believe in life after death, you would have to live fearing/waiting for death.

And thanks for the compliments lady_dw http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Good point. I couldn't have said it better.

Ah ha. you people do know that i love to piss you off right? yes i am an ignorant fool. But i like lady_dw veiws and the way she points things out. GOOD JOB! Yes i appologise Rust for me being ignorant, you must learn to live with it. Now i must go now and kill myself.. god your stupid. I like how lady_dw said that you can live life waiting for death, or live it fully till death. That is, pretty much, of what i was trying to point out, but i kick ass too much that i couldn't. haha. Ok yah im stupid, but i have my own veiws on thing. I appologise for pissing people off, and i realise that it isnt the best way of pointing out your veiws to people by ramming in down their ass's *large irony here*

quote: wow some of you people are scary , like Rust, and Hammer&Sickle, open your minds. I have been very open minded on this "debate" if you must say, and all you have done is bashed us untill you are satisfied that we are either bowing down to the "GREAT WILL OF GOD" or mashed into a pulp. So, i guess what i am saying i good job for being even more annoying and pissy then i could ever be. congradualtions.

haha im stupid. Well im jsut going to sit on the sides here and watch now... my word of input really doesnt matter anymore, so hey, what are you gonna do?

If only everyone were as honest as Raz just was... http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Religion doesn't cause wars, people causes wars...nasty, mean, self-centered, controlling, manipulation people.

True... Religion doesn't cause wars, religious people cause wars, but religion gives them something more to fight about.

that is very true... but i still dont get why people would want to kill anothter human...

quote:Originally posted by warweed12:

Religion makes me want to kill myself and god hates you all

See? Religion does have its uses.

quote:Originally posted by Silver Lights:

Religion doesn't cause wars, people causes wars

Religion is caused by people too.

quote:Originally posted by Raz:

that is very true... but i still dont get why people would want to kill anothter human...

That's a little naive. People kill eachother all the time. In fact, humans are the only species to kill one another without being in dire circumstances. One explaination is that most other animals, when they get in a rivalry, have subconsious signals that tell the other animal "I don't want to fight" called appeasment gestures. They do this by appealing to the other animals non agressive emotions. One example of this is begging. Begging for food from an aggressive animal causes them to feel protective thus over riding their aggression. Humans have a few dilluted forms of appeasement such as shaking hands and saluting. The only problem is, since we developed guns and bombs, that changed the whole idea. Humans can attack from remote locations without the other person knowing what is going on so no appeasement can take place. This is why professional killers are told never to look into the eyes of their victim.

Wow, we are a deperssing race. I just don't get it though. Why? How could someone live with that on their mind? Ah, well were all doomed I guess. Well think about it, there are people out there killing others just for no fucking reason. We won't stay alive for too long if we keep up all this killing.

Hmmmm... not gonna bother reading all this n cut to my thought.

Your saying what most of us ALL think.

Thank you for ranting.

that was quite blunt but I have to agree that religion has the capacity to create violence.

My view on religion was summed up by onee of the posters; religion is a tool not necessarily evil or good but dependent on those who practice it. You can attain personal and spiritual growth just as much as you can smash someone's head with a club due to religion.