"have you ever hads a dream that you thought was so real; what if you were unable to wake from that dream. how would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?"

a popular quote from the matrix. whcih arrouses an important philosiphical point. are we really here. is this just an illusion??

This is quite strange bbecause if this is an illusion then what is a dream. It would be an illusion within anillusion.

What tell us at the very least that when we are dreaming it is not "real" is that we can wake up and seperate ourselves from it.

And also the term "real" is only set by our definitions, and under those we are real because it is the criteria that we set.

If we were not actually here then what would be happening to us? Would we just be a machine, then what would be controlling the machines?

All of this is getting to beyond what we can accept as a fact and once again delving into the realms of belief. The only way we could not be "real" is if we believed that we were not. In which case we would be redefining the word and once again we would be real.

Three easy ways to tell "reality" from dreams.

1) you cant read or comprehend numbers in dreams. That is something your conscience mind controls.

2) you can not control light levels in dreams. Try flicking a light switch in a dream and see what happens.

3) you can not feel pain in a dream. yet another thing your conscience mind regulates.

how do u know that the dream world isnt actually the reality and the reallity the dream. what if the subconcious is reli the concious and the concious the subconcious. how do u know that wen u go to sleep ur really waking up and and wen u wake up ur really going 2 sleep. my point is that all in all we know NOTHING!

[This message has been edited by icantthinkofaname (edited 06-29-2003).]

^ Makes alotta sense ^ (not meant sarcastically)

In a dream you still know what your life was like outside of it from past experiences.

Also why would it matter if a dream was reality, and reality was the dream? We call a dream a dream because it's what happens when you go to sleep. You don't go to sleep when you're awake. You can't wake from up reality when you go to sleep (if it was a dream).

I am a butterfly.



...I'd make a more meaningful post, but I can't remember the Chinese philosopher that came up with it.

Easy answer: you don't.

The best you can do is assume what you experience is real.

All you people talking about doing stuff in your dreams - man, your dreams must be infinitely more vivid than mine. I couldn't tell you whether or not I feel pain in my dreams.

humans seem to have an afinity to see only what is before them, what they have been told or can see with their eyes. i am 14 and i can quite easily accept that everything we know and feel could be bullshit, although i do love philosiphy and physics. all you must do is open your eyes and look past the so called "fact" that aparantly blinds the whole of the human race.

quote:Originally posted by buddy dobbs:



3) you can not feel pain in a dream. yet another thing your conscience mind regulates.

I dunno. I had a dream that I fell off a cliff and smacked rock bottom and it hurt like hell.

It was some wierd different form of pain though. It was like a really intense yet dull pain. It hurt pretty bad, but when I woke up, it went away. I think it's all mental. I expected to feel pain when i hit bottom, so my mind generated some virtual pain while I was subconscious.

quote:Originally posted by Dark_Magneto:

I dunno. I had a dream that I fell off a cliff and smacked rock bottom and it hurt like hell.



Lol, classic.

there's an old saying it goes something like this..."were all Brahma's dream" something like that...course know one takes it seriously...i hope...

Well the topic has been a long debated subject so i doubt we will ever get to the bottom of it...

We cant with utmost certainty say whether one thing or another is real, whether are waking lives are real, all we can settle for, in my view are these:

1. I know I am real, i know i am real because i am thinking im real, therefore the thought that I am thinking means at some level, at some point, I am real (variation from Descartes philosophy)

2. Ultimately are senses are not trustworthy or reliable, this includes are mind, the only thing we can say for certain is our feeling that one thing or another is real. Our emotions lends to the reality of an object. If we feel that something is real or true, then it will exist for us.

3.the objectivity we will garner is the subjectivity of reality. even physical laws can be subjective when viewed from diverse perspectives...

Im rambling and probably not making sense



[This message has been edited by BlueEagle (edited 07-02-2003).]

quote:Originally posted by BlueEagle:

there's an old saying it goes something like this..."were all Brahma's dream" something like that...course know one takes it seriously...i hope...

Well the topic has been a long debated subject so i doubt we will ever get to the bottom of it...

We cant with utmost certainty say whether one thing or another is real, whether are waking lives are real, all we can settle for, in my view are these:

1. I know I am real, i know i am real because i am thinking im real, therefore the thought that I am thinking means at some level, at some point, I am real (variation from Descartes philosophy)

2. Ultimately are senses are not trustworthy or reliable, this includes are mind, the only thing we can say for certain is our feeling that one thing or another is real. Our emotions lends to the reality of an object. If we feel that something is real or true, then it will exist for us.

3. the objectivity w will garner is the subjectivity of reality. even physical laws can be subjective when viewed from diverse perspectives...

Im rambling and probably not making sense

yes you make sense, but most people dont think in such depth therfore you sound like a loonatik to the majoraty, most people have not heard of descarte but the first time i heard of him was in a book called the outsider , by colin wilson.I think you might like it its a famous book so it will still be in print , I am also a rambling loonatik

thanks...il try to look for that book by Collin Wilson...havnt had much time to read...college life has been difficult lately...

[This message has been edited by BlueEagle (edited 07-02-2003).]

nothing is real and nothing is gauranteed. well death is, asumming that it is real