I heard from someone that they found a gospel they believe was written by Jesus. I haven't heard anything else about it other then it went against organized religion so the Church doesn't accept it.

I don't know if it's real though. Please add your two-bit.

Also, based on Jesus' life do you think he is for organized religion, or just having beliefs and praying on your own?

I think he was against it in some sense. Like he was against money being collected FOR the CHURCH (not poor people). He also didn't agree with a lot of organised religion (Jewish) rules, like not working on the Sabbath.

Jesus certanly was against organised religion, in fact he protested against it and called these so called holy men hypocrits,and said pray in a cupboard in secret and do not repeat the same prayer over and over. that is the part of the bible were you will find the our father prayer wich jesus suposedly wrote

Jesus is turning in his grave i hope he does come back and destroy all hipocratical orginisations like the vatican, and rebuld them in his true teachings like it says in the bible,

well, how do you expect collecting money for the poor without really having an organization push for it, see in the sense that the church is a charity it works extremely well, no one can deny it, but just like a person it indulges itself

quote:Originally posted by mister pointyhat:

Jesus is turning in his grave

Uhm.. ?

quote:

Topic: The Gospel Written By Jesus



Jesus was an illiterate carpenter, which later became a prophet, which latter bacame the messiah, which later became God himself.

quote:Originally posted by Hammer&Sickle:

well, how do you expect collecting money for the poor without really having an organization push for it?

You give the money directly to the poor. They are not that hard to find. You see a down and out homeless vietnam veteran on the side of the street, you help him out.

quote:Originally posted by mister pointyhat:

Jesus is turning in his grave...

Yes he is. Particularly about that "rising on the third day" and "ascending to heaven" bullshit that got wrote about him several decades after his death.

[This message has been edited by Dark_Magneto (edited 07-03-2003).]

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html

it's called the gospel of st. thomas.

there are 52 other texts called the gnostic gospels.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/story/pagels.html

I'm really sorry I have to be THAT asshole, but according to every bit of verifiable information found to date, Jesus (or Yeshuwa ben Yosef) does not seem to have every actually existed (at least not in the same sense that I, you or cotten candy exists). EVERY significant aspect of his life and miracles were adapted from Greek, Egyptian, Persian, and many other sources, known to exist long before 33 CE.

The gnostic scriptures, found in Nag Hamadi, are the earliest writings refering to this particular Jewish folk hero, everything we now know as the New Testament, was written at least 70 or so years (most of which, hundrends of years) after his supposed death. It seems that Romans were obsessively compulsive record keepers, yet nothing of this man (or anyone resembling him) can be found in their archives (and I'm pretty sure that Pontius Pilat's records should be available online).

One would imagine that someone who caused such a stir would have been noteworthy enough for someone from HIS time to have written something about. If you're interested, check out some history of Sabbatai Sevi (a completely obscure Jewish messiah) and see for yourself how much info is available on him (from HIS time).

With just a little research, and a little common sense, you'll be able to see exactly what I'm talking about.

I'm really not saying any of this just to bash Christian beliefs, I really think a lot of what has been attributed to Jesus is WAY COOL, but I just doesn't make any sense to perpetuate a myth that people believe so strongly that millions have had to die as a result of.

Peace, y'all

^^^ I don't even believe Jesus cured people or that there is a god.

I just like Jesus' teachings, and you havne't shown any proof there wasn't a simle carpanter from Nazareth named Jesus, who had good morales.

well your all talk about various folk myths and such, Of course there will be some connections or some coincidences with stories after all this is a religion about a man's life, of course they glorify it I really think you should read more about the bible from an already biased point of you

And Weed and Booze yes Jesus was a carpenter of Nazareth, and the Roman's did keep track of the Jew's not individual people, but there are written documents about how the Jew's revolted about the prophets and the governors of Judea were considered the low lifes and loer part of the higherarchy.

quote:One would imagine that someone who caused such a stir would have been noteworthy enough for someone from HIS time to have written something about.

To the best of my knowledge I belive there are merchant logs, from very far of, that talk about a certain "Jesus of Nazareth that has healed the sick and cured the blind."

Im not 100% sure though.

quote:believe so strongly that millions have had to die as a result of.

Care to tell us where these millions come from? To the best of my knowledge the Christian crusade and holy wars were fought because of the Church, not because of what Jesus teached.

Jesus, existing or not, teached love and understanding.

quote:Originally posted by WeEdAnDBoOzE:

^^^ I don't even believe Jesus cured people or that there is a god.

I just like Jesus' teachings, and you havne't shown any proof there wasn't a simle carpanter from Nazareth named Jesus, who had good morales.

i understand this post

and there were probably millions of carpenters called jesus especiaily in brazil and mexico

quote:Originally posted by WeEdAnDBoOzE:

^^^ I don't even believe Jesus cured people or that there is a god.

I just like Jesus' teachings, and you havne't shown any proof there wasn't a simle carpanter from Nazareth named Jesus, who had good morales.

Like I already said, I think most of what is attributed to Jesus is cool. I never said anything about proving he never existed, just like I wouln't dare try to PROVE that Zeus, Adam and Eve, Paul Bunyan, Humpy Dumpty, or Loa Tzu never existed. I'm mearly stating that if Jesus did exist, nothing in the Christian bible, at all, refers to that man.

And just to be a technical asshole, Jesus of Nazareth NEVER existed. Jesus is a Greek corruption of the name we know now as Joshua. And if there are any documents referring specifically to this man, please educate me...

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

Care to tell us where these millions come from? To the best of my knowledge the Christian crusade and holy wars were fought because of the Church, not because of what Jesus teached.

Jesus, existing or not, teached love and understanding.

Dude, I agree with you, but ya missed the point. The church exists because of what was written about Jesus, and because the church believes it is true. If people just simply followed Jesus' example, none of that horrible shit would have happened. It's the absolute belief, not the teachings, that have caused millions to die.

I knew my reply would piss people off. (Isn't it funny how even non-christians get defensive when one of their long-cherished ideas of reality are challenged?)

LOVE YOU ALL

THOU ARE GOD

quote:It's the absolute belief, not the teachings, that have caused millions to die.

Yes, but its the belief in the CHURCH that has caused millions of people to die.

quote:Isn't it funny how even non-christians get defensive when one of their long-cherished ideas of reality are challenged

I don't know if this was aimed at me, but believe me, Im not pissed, or getting defensive. Im just pointing out your error.

"I'm really sorry I have to be THAT asshole, but according to every bit of verifiable information found to date, Jesus (or Yeshuwa ben Yosef) does not seem to have every actually existed (at least not in the same sense that I, you or cotten candy exists)."

before you be...that....asshole.

perhaps you should check your information.

jesus did in fact exist, christianity recognizes him, judaism, recognizes him, and the romans recognized him.

the following is from the roman historian Tacitus....

http://www.request.org.uk/main/history/jesus/jesus05.htm

"To dispel the rumour, Nero substituted as culprits, and treated with the most extreme punishments, some people, popularly known as Christians, whose disgraceful activities were notorious. The originator of that name, Christus, had been executed when Tiberius was Emperor, by order of the procurator Pontius Pilatus. But the deadly cult, though checked for a time, was now breaking out again not only in Judea, the birthplace of this evil, but even throughout Rome, where all the nasty and disgusting ideas from all over the world pour in and find a ready following."

Annals 15 : 44.

i don't doubt he existed, i do doubt he was the son of god.

jackasses that don't know how to use google piss me off.

"This is an English version of an Urdu treatise written by the Holy Founder of the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908). The theme is the escape of Jesus from death on the cross, and his journey to India in search of the lost tribes of Israel. Christian as well as Muslim scriptures, and old medical and historical books including ancient Buddhist records, provide evidence about this journey. Jesus is shown to have reached Afghanistan, and to have met the Jews who had settled there after deliverance from the bondage of Nebuchadnezzar. From Afghanistan Jesus went on to Kashmir, where other Israelite tribes had settled. There he made his home, and there in time he died; his tomb has been found in Srinagar."

http://www.alislam.org/books/jesus-in-india/contents.html

http://www.missiontoamerica.org/history.html

As previously stated (and I read the links)no documents from HIS time, verify the existence of Jesus. Again, refer to Sabbatai Sevi (those documents were written as they happened, as would be expected with a real person. Legends are often written right after the supposed lifetime of who is being written about...

quote:Originally posted by IzzyReele:

the following is from the roman historian Tacitus....

You mean the Tacitus who lived from A.D. c. 55–A.D. c. 117?

And wrote about Jesus (or rather, Christians), many years after his life?

People willingly died in the name of Jesus. They were so devoted that they gladly met their end in a lion's den.

These men also remembered everything about him for the rest of their lives and told as many people as possible until the day they died.

You don't get followers like that from an amalgam of myths from other cultures.

Oh, he was real, all right. He just wasn't the messiah.

"Oh, he was real, all right. He just wasn't the messiah."

exactly, i like the way the last temptation stated it.

jesus-"why do you tell these lies about me, i wasn't crucified, i wasn't resurrected. i'm married i have a wife and kids."

paul-"what are doing? look at these people. the only hope they have is in the resurrected christ. whether it happened or not doesn't matter, as long as they believe it."

"You mean the Tacitus who lived from A.D. c. 55–A.D. c. 117?"

oh yeah, you're right. the romans were so shitty about keeping records that nothing survived from 33 c.e. to 55 c.e.

come on, history does not deny his existence.

it just doesn't support his importance.