Well knowning quite a few of those categories, here's a few things I've noticed...

- Most of them are young - I'd say most athiests who acknowledge that they are, are below 30...maybe its becuase younger people dont want the guilt of thier actions that some religions apply...eh

- Some tend to have on excuse for not believing in god "its bullshit" , "its just fairy-tales" or "its made up to make you conform" etc...not in a long while have i heard a good explanation for not believing

-Most tend to have alot of built up emotion which is usually anger/depression, or something has happened that has been "so horrible" that it made them deny god.

-Most get angry when you question why they dont believe...hmm...?

well its 2 AM and i though id share that...i know im gonna get flamed for this so go ahead...just though id see what people say

taco.

quote:Originally posted by la taco:

- Some tend to have on excuse for not believing in god "its bullshit" , "its just fairy-tales" or "its made up to make you conform" etc...not in a long while have i heard a good explanation for not believing



You don't have to have a reason to lack a belief in something, but you do have to have a reason to believe or disbelieve in something.

With that in mind, one of the main reasons people disbelieve in particular religions is lack on the religions part to provide anything of substance or compelling evidence. It's usually all heresay and invalid hypothesys on top of invalid hypothesys distorted through the telephone game effect to nonsensical shite which doesn't even amount to second hand evidence.

quote:Originally posted by la taco:

Well knowning quite a few of those categories, here's a few things I've noticed...

- Most of them are young - I'd say most athiests who acknowledge that they are, are below 30...maybe its becuase younger people dont want the guilt of thier actions that some religions apply...eh

- Some tend to have on excuse for not believing in god "its bullshit" , "its just fairy-tales" or "its made up to make you conform" etc...not in a long while have i heard a good explanation for not believing

-Most tend to have alot of built up emotion which is usually anger/depression, or something has happened that has been "so horrible" that it made them deny god.

-Most get angry when you question why they dont believe...hmm...?

well its 2 AM and i though id share that...i know im gonna get flamed for this so go ahead...just though id see what people say

taco.

It seems that you haven't met very many real atheists. Some people are really just "fair weather christians." Usually something bad happened in their life to make them want to "punish" god by disbelieving in him. Real atheists do not believe in god because they really just don't believe.

Someone once told me that Athiesm was just another form of belief, seeing as how it's the belief that there is no God. Me, personally, I don't believe in any religion. If there is a higher power, and it wanted everyone to know of it's existance, it wouldn't publish a novel. You find it by yourself, within yourself. Spirituality, whatever the hell you want to call it. I live my life based on the lessons I learn through my own experience and not those of others. Just a little ignorant, sure, but I'm comfartable with it...

- Yes, i'm young, 15. Maybe when i'm older i'll "see the light" of Christianity and join the flock... seriously doubt it though. Also, I don't need "religion" to have morals either. And in all seriousness, are you telling me you really believe all religious people think "hey that watch looks good, i'll steal it... oh shit yeah, the bible says not to do that" and all atheists think "hey that watch looks good, i'll steal it since i have no religion or vengeful god to stop me".

- I have a good reason for believing http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum15/HTML/001499.html sums it up pretty well. I find the opposite, that religious people often base their beliefs on what preachers or holy books tell them to believe instead of real thought and logic.

- Nope, no pent up emotions that I know of. I have good logical reasons for "denying god".

- I have no problem discussing what I believe, the link pretty much explains what i believe and feel free to ask me any questions you have about my beliefs.

There's also been lots of study (over 50 years, in different places from different people) gone into the correlation of IQ and religious belief. The overall result seems to be atheists and agnostics tend to be more intelligent. http://www.objectivethought.com/atheism/iqstats.html

Enjoy.

hey!! am only 14, and am agnostic. am am jst strictly antireligious. but i do agree with you it is mostly youg ppl that are atheist, due probably to the fact of the ignorance and neivity that is asociated with youth. ah well, i on the other hand remain agnostic and anitreligionist!

I do not believe that people have a choice what he/she believes in. That is something entirely in the hands of God. I used to fault people for what they believed or disbelieved, but after years of study, a countless number of talks with other individuals, and the conversions that I experienced in my own life I came to that exact conclusion.

Many people who I have spoken face to face with gave me the impression that they were angry with God and decided to spite Him with their denial of God, but that is all part of their own spiritual journey. I have even been envious of people like that on occasion. Evny is probably too strong of a word, but what I believe will happen to athiests is that their revelation of God will come to them all at once. Try packing all of the God shots you have had through out your life into one giant moment! WOW! I am only in my twenties and already a thought like that amazes me.

That is also why God will bring everybody to salvation.

I'm an old bastard (well, 38). Semi-Religous parents; but never christened/baptised/confirmed/barmitzhed, they thought it was up to me. I called myself an atheist untill I realised how irrational that is. There is no evidence for or against. The only approach I can follow is open minded sceptisism. What you believe is your problem http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

A book that contains unbelievable events written by a bunch of long-dead one-minded zealots does not appeal to me. Isn't it weird that in on almost every page of the bible god tells Abraham this or Ezekiel that.... People were getting smote down left and right. Yet where the hell has the Christian God been for the past 2000 years or so? Vacation?

And that's just a small example of why I'm a happy agnosticist and not an unhappy Christian.

quote:Originally posted by whaziznaim:

I do not believe that people have a choice what he/she believes in. That is something entirely in the hands of God.



Your falling dangerously into the realm of Calvanistic predetermination, which effectively negates free will.

If god is going to decide what I will believe for me, then I don't have any say in the matter. If God decides to make me believe in nothing but self-indulgence at others expense, then that is what i will do, as he has dictated.

For him then to banish me after I die for the actions he programmed in my mind would be tantamount to the programmer getting mad at the program for it living up to his expectations and doing exactly what he designed and knew it would do all along.

That would make God the puppetmaster, and we are his puppets that live miserable lives of tortured existence, as he set it up to be.

Well fuck that.

and perhaps the reason most atheists are young is because religion doesnt have nearly the power that it used to and it is getting few new recruits as the worlds collective knowledge is growing

1. My father is a self-proclaimed atheist, and he's 57 years. However, personally, I find his viewpoint similar to that of a 16 year old's, just because he's so proud to call himself an atheist, now.

Anyway, I don't think most agnostics/atheists are really young, but just that the younger ones will probably be more apt to talk about it, or try to change your beliefs, just because it's still new, and ground-breaking, to them. They feel the need to share, and attempt to make the same impact on your life, that was just made on theirs. I call it excitement.

2. Unless you are open minded, and are actually willing to change your beliefs, I don't think ANY explanation would be considered a good explanation, by your terms.

("You" here, is not necessarily personal.)

As Dark_Magneto said, one does not need a reason not to believe, but a reason to believe. Except in the case of religion, people are usually skeptics. When it comes to a new startling health revelation, most people want proof. For instance, there've been plenty of scientists who've proved that margerine was better for you, than butter. Years later, whatever had been proved earlier, was later dis-proved. Then you have people thinking/saying "Well, last year you 'proved' margerine was better, and this year, butter's better. What am I supposed to believe? Obviously, proof is not enough."

One common argument against the existence of a god is the argument: If God is both omniscient, and omnipotent, can He create a boulder heavy enough that even He himself cannot lift? If He is omnisicient, He must know how to do such a thing. If He is omnipotent, he must know how to lift such a thing.

Maybe God really can create such a boulder, and maybe it's just beyond the average human thinking realm to comprehend this notion. Who knows.

Another argument against the existence of a god, is that, while theists say everything must have started somehow, non-believers say, ''Well, if you're going to trace everything back to one first cause, why not just call it a meteor? Why does it have to be called God? If there's allowed to be one thing which created everything else, then that could be anything at all, if it can be God.''

3. Agnostics and atheists tend to have built up emotion? Is this in comparison to theists, or in comparison to older people, since, you know, they all tend to be under the age of 30, too. That just came all to randomly to even begin to seriously analyze.

4. Most closedminded, highly-opinionated people tend to get angry if you question their beliefs. I really don't think this is a defining characteristic in agnostics, and atheists alone. Might want to create a study on that, one day.

Humble, quote:As Dark_Magneto said, one does not need a reason not to believe, but a reason to believe

You need to read what dark_Magneto said, here I'll help you:

quote:You don't have to have a reason to lack a belief in something, but you DO have to have a reason to believe or DISBELIEVE in something

right, Rust, that was unnecessary. lacking a belief is the same as not believing. to lack something is the same as not having something.

i did not say disbelieving, and i did not mean disbelieving. i left out the dis-believing factor, because i can't say for sure, that i agree with that portion.

(feel special, as i edited, just to capitalize your name, despite my dislike of the shift key.)



[This message has been edited by humble (edited 07-13-2003).]

The best way to be is open minded about it. Sometimes it's bad to make people question their beliefs because this would make them feel threatened, that something they're so sure of could be wrong... they think "how dare I question it? Of course it's the only way". Atheists aren't the only ones who get frustrated when you question their beliefs, or do something that goes against those beliefs.

For example, a super-religious christian friend of mine gets pissed when I even touch the religion topic. Just the other night, while talking about something that had NOTHING to do with religion, I used the phrase "for christ's sake, the kid was like 12 years old" and he got pissed all of a sudden and said "Don't say that in front of me"...

Just from the tone of his voice and the quick response, I could tell that he believed if he said it the way he did, it would really make someone feel sorry...like they did something wrong... He told me once his brother did that a lot, and I think he was just trying that technique which kinda pissed me off, because I think he acted really fucking immature about it. I paused for a sec and said "umm, ok...". Now I know, I have free speech, why the fuck should I have to change the way I talk around him? I can say whatever I want to... but the thing I realize is, he was raised christian, so this shit is so imprinted into his head that it's psychological... it's like, I'm not even going to bother arguing because I know it's stuck in his head.

The next time he says shit like that though, Ill probably bring up the free speech thing, and let him know that just because he's a christian doesn't mean everyone else is, and other's can talk how they want to, and didn't mean to "offend Jesus" and he can at least ask instead of demand that I speak a certain way.... for now Im gonna try to just be mature about it and be more understanding to his religion. I wouldn't want something stupid like religious differences to break up a good friendship.

I believe Christianity is bullshit for many many reasons, one particularly because it basically says "You have freedom of choice, of course! BUT IF YOU CHOOSE THIS OR THIS, OR THAT, OR THIS, YOU GO TO HELL AND SUFFER SO DO THIS, AND THIS, AND THIS INSTEAD!... that's not freedom of choice, that's a lie. I think many christians missed the point of religion, which is to love thy neighbor as you love thyself (but its ok to not love Gays, and other religions and the people who practice them are evil) I'm not really in favor of religions that pretty much tell you how to think by demanding you do things. Though I won't go out of my way to argue with the people who believe them, it's up to them.

Many other religions seem open minded, and I like studying them, because Ive heard so much about jesus this, jesus that while growing up, that it's closed my eyes over the world around me. I think it's because of the religious principles america was founded on. You never hear about anything else unless you look for it... Now I like reading up on EVERY belief, and there are some striking similarities among some... But if I were to set my beliefs as certain, and acknowledge "this is right" then that would leave space for things to be wrong, and then what if "right" to me is really "wrong" in truth? Who knows, life is uncertain, so it's best to be open minded and believe whatever you want to believe in. I do however believe that it's possible that matter came from a consciousness, I however will not humanize this consciousness like so many people seem to do... "do this and I am happy, but do this and you make me sad and I send you to hell" They make something that is beyond our complete comprehension sound like a fucking retard or something.

Now I'm sure I might have contradicted myself a few times, but I do that a lot, I change my mind and contradict myself daily... thats the one problem with having no set beliefs... you might agree with someone on something but then the next day you will think the total opposite. Maybe I'm insane. Logic doesn't apply to me that well.

It's your life, believe what you want



[This message has been edited by Fuck (edited 07-13-2003).]

quote:lacking a belief is the same as not believing. to lack something is the same as not having something.

No it is NOT the same. Lacking means not having a belief.

Not believing means, state of the mind in which one is fully persuaded that an opinion, assertion, or doctrine is not true. And guess what's the definition of disbelief?....

Like in anarchy, many of it's members don't understand the true doctrines of the idea. But there are some things I've noticed about young, zealous religious teens.



- They have a tendancy to not be able to stp talking to other people about how God helped them or how they prayed for them. "Oh, I knew God would help you get that car fixed." Or "I prayed for you while you were taking that test." Usually that's sweet, but it gets overbearing as they emphasize their faith.

- They endlessly are attempting to convert others. Most religions, especially the Christan ones, say hat they must 'spread the word of God.' This somehow translates to 'grab on and be persistent.' No matter how much I respect them, they cannot respect me.

- Everything is their choice, but still in 'God's hands.' It's almost like their not taking responsibility for themselves. Or taking credit for the strength they have. It's because god gave it to them.

But, I know this is not the true religious zealot. Like any idea, wether religious or aetheists, most young people are outward, expressive, and extreme. So, you just notice the younger aethiests beacuase their more verbose, just as atheists notice the younger religious ones for the same reason. That's how we get our cliche's and generalizations.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

----------

Originally posted by slack:

lacking a belief is the same as not believing. to lack something is the same as not having something.

----------

No it is NOT the same. Lacking means not having a belief.

Not believing means, state of the mind in which one is fully persuaded that an opinion, assertion, or doctrine is not true. And guess the definition of disbelief?



(intentionally misquoted, because i have issues.)

oh come on, Rust. you're picking flyshit out of pepper, so-to-speak. care to cite where you found the definition of the phrase "not believing"? i can't find the definition anywhere, myself. if i didn't know better, i'd think you were trying to dictate your personal definition onto me.

you're trying to tell me there's a substancial difference between not believing and not having a belief.

i could see if you were differentiating between "not having a belief", and DIS-believing, but you're not. i understand that you find a difference between the two that i find the same, but i dis-agree with the difference you find.

if you look up the prefix ''non-'' in the dictionary, you get a line of synonyms which include: not, absence of, and lacking. i would consider not believing the same as ''non-believing'' in that case, and therefore deduce that not believing is the same as lacking a belief.

kindly drop it; as i highly doubt any resolution will come of your fairly petty argument.

in the future, i'll try to spell out my posts on the first try.

[This message has been edited by humble (edited 07-13-2003).]

quote: you're trying to tell me there's a substancial difference between not believing and not having a belief.

Of Course. Not believing implies a belief that something is not true, thus you have a belief. Lacking a belief means you LACK any type of belief.

quote: you look up the prefix ''non-'' in the dictionary,

Non- and NOT are very different, nice try.

Lets look up NOT: Used to express negation, denial, refusal, or prohibition.

Ohh but don't take my word for it! Take Dark_Magneto's word:

quote: but you do have to have a reason to believe or disbelieve in something.

Yes I'm only 15 as well.. But look at the age difference from a different perspective.

You are currently looking at it (or appear to be looking at it) in the way that younger people are ignorant, lazy, or just plain naive, thus they havent 'found' "God" for that reason.

Here's a little background:

We now live in what is called "The Information Age" or whatever you'd like to call it. What the average highschool senior learns today is to a higher degree than what a highschool senior was learning 30 years ago. A lot of parents can agree that their child will come home from school and share what they learned, and be totally shocked as to how much they already know, and how young they are.

Lifestyles are totally different. 30 years ago, the majority (almost everyone) believed what they were told by elders, without doubt.. or at least they didnt express doubt. Your father told you God existed, and that he loved us, you believed it.. without question. At the time, there was less knowledge of the world as there is now, so it seemed really reasonable. "Why not believe in God", ya know.

Now try to look at it this way:

The reason that young people, such as myself, make up a good portion of the population of atheists/agnostics may be because of the knowledge we've attained early on in life just made the existance of a superior being seem unlikely. Also, because people and lifestyles have changed over the years, people tend to openly express doubt and question more than they did, say 30 years ago. So with all those factors combined, it's easier for us 'young people' to openly express our doubts when it comes to religion and whatnot.. It's not so "Believe me because I say so" anymore, it's more "Well, how come? Why? Let me find out for myself.."

Things are less traditional than before. We question things now.. We find out for ourselves..

On a different note, here's a common misconception when it comes to atheists/agnostics. Most call them lazy or afraid to take responsibility for their actions.. Think about it. It's not that easy.

This is how it goes for me, and several other atheists I know around here. 99% of us were brought up christian to begin with. We believed in "God", and we believed in "Heaven" and "Hell"... We knew that those who didnt believe in "God" went to hell, simply put. Do those of you who think "atheists are lazy and afraid to accept responsibility" truly believe that they just said "fuck religion" just like that? No! Personally I was scared shitless that my questions would make me go to hell.. I knew that it was a huge risk to declare I didnt believe in "God", and if I was wrong that I would end up in "hell".. It was Not that easy of a decision, and it wasn't a thoughtless decision either.. Please do not think that. All the atheists I know went through this as well, and it's a very tough decision to make, and it requires much reflecting and thought. We have looked at the pro's and con's.. We have looked at the contradictories. So again, please do not look at atheists/agnostics as lazy, unable to accept responsibility, or anything like that.



[This message has been edited by Lovley (edited 07-14-2003).]

I agree with Lovley, look guys. I'm athiest, thats all there is to it. I dont go around declaring my views or broadcasting them to people that dont care and trying to convert others to 'see the light of my ways'. Quite frankly, you wanna believe in a supreme being, have a blast, just dont give me the evil eyes because i dont pray/praise/worship/acknowlege what you do. Given that, normally i wouldn't post on a widely read board my personal reasons and i think widely accepted reasons of others for chosing to not believe in any god, however when i read that someone has only come into contact with either some people with an extremely poor reasons for validating their beliefs or is just plain ignorant, i feel that maybe i can shed some more true light on the subject.

1) Can't see god, plain and simple you cannot see him/her/it and that tends to weaken the case made by theists.

2) I came to the scary question after about two years of a total 'bible freak' phase (praying everynight and day, going to church and not paying attention to the people whose hands you dont want to shake towards the end of mass, preaching to my siblings and peers about god and jesus, and reading the biblical stories) of "why do i believe in god" and the answer was the same as if you asked a small child why they believed in Santa Claus, "because daddy said he was real, there are tv shows about him, lots of people agree, there are books about him, people have been doing the belief thing for a long time, and if i dont i get coal (hell)."

3) I read the best piece of literature for not believing in an established religion of any kind, THE HOLY BIBLE. Most christians have never read the bible and their knowlege of jesus and the bible is usually based upon cartoons at christmas time and the stained glass around the church that they keep on staring at while 'that guy in white keeps babbling on about Beavis and his apostrophes'. The Bible says people lived to over 800 years. The Bible says in the old testement that revenge or 'repayment' is completely okay and ordained by the word of 'God' himself but in the new testement jesus says 'screw that' and tells his followers to forgive. God created the world in seven days, and gave every animal of the sea, land, and air to be ruled by man, many christian PETA members i know would tend to disagree, if of course they weren't threatened with going to hell if they spoke out. These are just a few of many many many examples of absolute insanities professed in the book of the lord.

4) For awhile after i came to the conclusion that most church's were as i put it 'full of shit' i became a 'non-denominational christian' therby believing in god, and that Christ was the embodiment of God. That worked for awhile, and then i started thinking about Christ and the whole idea that a supreme being would create a man to be imbued with the power, nature, and will of God. That god would then allow this man to attain a huge followers of believers, the man would walk around being extra-special nice to people like god naturally is (spurring memories of a certain Angel of death raining hellfire on a city and murdering innocent children in Egypt), then go into a Hebrew temple, freak out, throw over tables, tell everyone that the high preists were douchebags, in the end get sold out by the temptation of one of his buddies, know it was happening, and then get nailed tot a fucking board of wood by mere mortals. It has less logical validation than the idea that a big bad wolf would scarf down poor ol granny, dress up in women's clothing, and then convince a small little girl to come into her bedroom and give her some goodies. Or at least thats what i thought.

5) So i gave up on the whole christ thing, after really contemplating if risking eternal damnation and scorn and scrutiny and shunning from most of the population of my region was all worth it. So i was left with just being a theist, believing in an all poweful being up there that had his hand in everything and was really caring and loving toward us all. Then i took a look around. I dont even have to elaborate on that very much for those of you reading this to get the picture at of my point. Look around people, there is (logically of course) NOT a supreme, loving, caring, omnipotent being controlling this universe. there is too much death, sadness, corruption, hate, war, ignorance, disease, suicides, murders, rapes, fondelings of choir boys, genocide, and N'SYNC albums to possibly believe that if he's up there, he loves us all and will do what he can to make us happy servants of his will. And i know what the theists will say. "god works in mysterious ways" come on people, you'd think if he really cared he'd be risk a little bit of bluntness and save the five year old that had half of his skull liquified as a stray bullet ruptured his cranium in the inner city. and to that, the theists respsond "do not question god's will" and to you i say, Why the hell not? fear of hell? look, if you truly believe in the bible then wearing clothing of two different fabrics is a sin and anyone whose eatin bologna and hasn't confessed for it is hanging out with Buddah in the fiery chasms of hell. Wheras technically the location of Hitler on the etheral plains is questionable considering he was a christian, never killed anyone by his own hand, obeyed every commandment, and was in a roundabout way responsible for the deaths of millions of people, also that god loved. So, God in my world, vanishes in a poof of logic.

6) This is not the easy way out. I would love to believe that there is an all powerful man up there looking out for my best interests and making sure that it all turns out peachy in the end for me and all the people i care about. i would love to believe that no matter how badly i fuck up i can just say sorry, ask forgiveness, and still get to see the pearly gates. And i would love to believe that christ will come again to save us all from this wretched world we created out of the 'perfect world' that god gave to us. but i dont, i have weighed and measured both sides, and the theist side just seems lacking. But this, as you can see by now, did not come without alot of thought and consideration. I didn't kill someone, say 'shit im going to hell... fuck that, i can not believe and im okay' nothing completely bad happened to me that made me not want to believe in god, hell in the worst moments of my life my faith in god was at its strongest because of those moments.

7) Saying that the young dont believe in god because they dont want the guilt is like saying that the old believe in god because they're close to then end and really dont want to go to a more miserable world than this when they croak. Think about that for a moment.

So there ya have it in a poorly organised rant/essay. flame at will, it doesn't bother me in the least because i will read with an open mind constantly. I'm athiest now, tommorow, if i am struck by the light of the lord then maybe i'll go back to believing in and loving god. but that hasn't happened, the older i get, the more convinced i am at tthe foolishness of my youth when i would talk with my hands pressed togethor to someone who never answered. I may or may not be an athiest all my life, nothing with me is etched in stone, because that would be ignorant and close minded to not take in other bits of information to either strengthen or weaken your beliefs/values. Anyway, thats that and i'll end it here.

p.S. 'but thats just my opinion, i could be wrong'

quote:Most of them are young - I'd say most athiests who acknowledge that they are, are below 30...maybe its becuase younger people dont want the guilt of thier actions that some religions apply...eh

I am atheist/agnostic, and I have never done anything that I would feel guilty about.

quote:Some tend to have on excuse for not believing in god "its bullshit" , "its just fairy-tales" or "its made up to make you conform" etc...not in a long while have i heard a good explanation for not believing

Not in a long while have I heard a good explanation for believing

quote:Most tend to have alot of built up emotion which is usually anger/depression, or something has happened that has been "so horrible" that it made them deny god.

Actually, I am quite happy with my life. Although there have been bumps in the road here and there, I have never had anything come up that would make me deny God.

quote:Most get angry when you question why they dont believe...hmm...?

Most Christians get angry when you question why they do believe...hmm...?

[This message has been edited by Accesser37 (edited 07-14-2003).]

Many religions have the problem of assuming God is even remotely human. God controls EVERYTHING IN EXISTENCE SINCE THE ORIGIN OF MATTER.

God therefore:

quote:Originally posted by the voice of reason:

1. Doesn't give a shit about your opinions.

2. Doesn't give a shit about your demands to "see" him, seeing as Nature in its entirety apparently isn't enough for you.

3. Isn't controlled by emotions.

4. Isn't concerned with justice.

5. Doesn't answer your prayers.

6. Doesn't give or deny you special attention.

7. Won't explain anything to you.

8. Can, and just might, RUIN YOUR SHIT without explanation or notice.

Understand this first. Mechanically, we fend for ourselves on this planet. We exist because of a will to survive. We therefore struggle to continue to survive. Ergo, having the most strength is crucial to survival: Might is Right. Fascism is the highest inborn instinct. The legacy of those who have conquered run through the veins of their descendants. Welcome to Heaven.

[This message has been edited by Tyrant (edited 07-14-2003).]

Number 8 on the list is contrary to self-preservation.

And Fuck, your superreligiouszealot of a friend has to be pretty goddamn insecure if he goes epileptic on anything with a religious hint, undertone, or suggestion.

That reminds me of a quote:

"Truth does not demand belief. Scientists don't join hands every Sunday, chanting "I believe what goes up must come down. I DO believe it! I do, I do, I DO!", If they did, we would think they were pretty damn insecure about it."

quote:Originally posted by Dark_Magneto:



That reminds me of a quote:

"Truth does not demand belief. Scientists don't join hands every Sunday, chanting "I believe what goes up must come down. I DO believe it! I do, I do, I DO!", If they did, we would think they were pretty damn insecure about it."

I like that

Wow who ever started this thread must realize we live in the 90's back when most of the people 30 or older were growing up they really didnt have a say it was go to church and thats it. almost forceful. but now a days people can freely express what they wish without being persecuted for it. personally the reaosn i dont belive in chrisitanityor anything is simply history. right before the reformation. i personally think that if any religion became like that its obviously not a religion and falsely is just a corporate organization helping the govt control the masses. I mean the pope really doesnt do anything except condemn things and yet hes possibly the biggest livign religious figure. step out of your box people and look around, havent you noticed that now adays you can believe in anything and no one looks around but when you say your atheist every looks at you and says how can you be atheist? ironic indeed.

How can you even say that most atheists are younger, maybe there are more of us than you think they simply dont want to tell people. i mean i have so muhc freedom now adays that i could say i believe in pencils as being god and people would be ok with that.

But if you realyl want to know why im not religious, theres no proof regardless of how you put it and secondly at one time the church was one big corrupted organization that started the witch trials, blantly killing people because they didnt believe in there way. i hope you all realize that christianity isnt always like it has been at one tiem they were a cruel money mongling group of people who persecuted others for reasons that i woudl say follow alogn hte lines of genocide.

well happy reading

quote:Originally posted by Toban Locksmith:

Someone once told me that Athiesm was just another form of belief, seeing as how it's the belief that there is no God. Me, personally, I don't believe in any religion. If there is a higher power, and it wanted everyone to know of it's existance, it wouldn't publish a novel. You find it by yourself, within yourself. Spirituality, whatever the hell you want to call it. I live my life based on the lessons I learn through my own experience and not those of others. Just a little ignorant, sure, but I'm comfartable with it...

It's comfortable*...and I agree

"You don't have to have a reason to lack a belief in something"

i disagree magneto.

the same reasoning that gets you to believe something, will usually be the same reasoning you use to not believe something.

there's a reason for everything i don't believe in, and a reason for everything i do believe in.

i don't believe in evolution; in it's current form. not a creationist in the common sense of the term.

but i've been exposed to the idea of evolution, it's unconvincing to me, to say i have no fucking reason to believe in evolution is absurd.

i have to say the same applies to you. you've been exposed to the idea of god, it's unconvincing to you; but it is still a reason.

belief is very akin to opinion, the only difference is that belief is 99 times out of 100 spoken as fact.

do not take your belief, or any belief to seriously, all it is in the end is an opinion.

and the only way you could not form an opinion on something is to never have been exposed to it, or an idea of it.

that i think is the hugest problem of atheists, and theists alike, is not seeing belief for what it is.

an opinion on the likelihood of the idea presented to you.

there are people who "lack belief" in the speech george bush gave during the state of the union.

if asked why would these people sound intelligent saying "i don't need a fucking reason not to believe him"

wow, i didnt think my thread that i wrote while i was half asleep talking to my agnostic friend who get this much going...but its a good argument going on...

go me!

taco

quote:Originally posted by icantthinkofaname:

hey!! am only 14, and am agnostic. am am jst strictly antireligious. but i do agree with you it is mostly youg ppl that are atheist, due probably to the fact of the ignorance and neivity that is asociated with youth. ah well, i on the other hand remain agnostic and anitreligionist!

I'd agree with agnosticism - somewhat grudgingly - but why would you be "anti-religious?" If a bunch of other people want to worship some invisible sky spirit, why the hell do you care? It's their life.

heres something i noticed about religuos people... they get religous towards the end of their lives b/c they think they are going to hell... and theres no such place..... and they hang on oevr word of the bible if god told them not to breathe they wopuldnt... if the bible said lick a donkeys ass and were a mask like the kkk the people would... fuck them fuck u and fuck religion

Opinions Are Like Assholes

Everyone has one, and they are all full of shit.

Beliefs are emotional, not logical.

Believe in god because you're scared not too. Or because it makes you better than the materialists. Believe in NO God because it's too scary to believe. Or because it makes you better than the dumbass christians http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

( Beliefs are also convenient excuses to do whatever you want, like killing, raping, and torturing your fellow humans. )

We don't live in a rational universe. Nothing that makes sense is true.

Christians, muslims, hindus, etc. are all full of shit. Atheists, agnostics, scientists, etc. are full of shit. That doesn't mean that science and religion have nothing at all to offer. Just that you have to dig through a ton of shit to find one corn kernel of truth. Enjoy!

For the scientist: Tell me what makes gravity. I mean explain it.

Try not to sound like a preacher!

For the christians: Why does your bible mention unicorns as much as it does hell, but you don't believe in unicorns? Try not to sound like a scientist!

The only man you should believe is the one who says he has no idea. At least he knows he doesn't know, and he is right. It's one thing to question reality. It's another to think you already know.

quote:Originally posted by Viraljimmy:



Christians, muslims, hindus, etc. are all full of shit. Atheists, agnostics, scientists, etc. are full of shit. That doesn't mean that science and religion have nothing at all to offer. Just that you have to dig through a ton of shit to find one corn kernel of truth. Enjoy!

For the scientist: Tell me what makes gravity. I mean explain it.

Try not to sound like a preacher!

For the christians: Why does your bible mention unicorns as much as it does hell, but you don't believe in unicorns? Try not to sound like a scientist!

The only man you should believe is the one who says he has no idea. At least he knows he doesn't know, and he is right. It's one thing to question reality. It's another to think you already know.

The idea behind agnosticism is that we don't know so we shouldn't guess. So you're saying we should trust the agnostics (one who says they have no idea) even though they're full of shit.

quote:Originally posted by Haddock:

The idea behind agnosticism is that we don't know so we shouldn't guess. So you're saying we should trust the agnostics (one who says they have no idea) even though they're full of shit.

Seriously, I guess agnostics wouldn't have alot to say. I guess they would be less full of shit. I never talked to any agnostics.

Why have a title for not thinking anything?

Viraljimmy, are you above seven years old? Your blanket statements without logical defense and verbal attacks against everything about religion is mediocre and banal. You offer neither argument nor solution.

It's obvious that the universe is quite rational. It's simply "unjust" by your selfish and subjective standards.

Krist99, you must be in the same class as Viraljimmy, because nothing of what you grotesquely misspelled is true. You must be a punk rocker.

Most atheists typically do not have substantial father figures. Atheists are typically children who, rather than accept discipline and constitution in production, choose hedonism and recess as their life virtues.

Originally posted by Viraljimmy:

quote:Opinions Are Like Assholes

Everyone has one, and they are all full of shit.

LOL

quote:Beliefs are emotional, not logical.

Not necessarily. I believe that 2+2=4. That is a very logical belief.

quote:We don't live in a rational universe. Nothing that makes sense is true.

Once again, 2+2=4. It makes sense, it is rational, and it is true.

quote:For the scientist: Tell me what makes gravity. I mean explain it.

Try not to sound like a preacher!

The force known as gravity is conveyed by a particle called a graviton.

Gravity can also be thought of as a well in space. If you fall in the well you will have to fight gravity to get out of the well (That's why they strap tons of explosive on the space shuttle).

And with the new Superstring Theory: A graviton is a spin-2 closed string (Pictured below):

http://www.sukidog.com/jpierre/strings/gravmove.gif (http://www.sukidog.com/jpierre/strings/gravmove.gif)

Also, Gravitons have no mass.

quote:The only man you should believe is the one who says he has no idea. At least he knows he doesn't know, and he is right.

In order for something to be considered right or correct it must make sense. But did you not say, "Nothing that makes sense is true." So, therefore, that means that the man is wrong.

However, when one says that they "know that they know" something. Then that is like saying 1=1. Which is correct. Ergo, your statement, "Nothing that makes sense is true," is incorrect.

quote:It's one thing to question reality. It's another to think you already know.

Why do think scientist do the things they do? They realize that they don't know. That's why they try to figure it out what the most likely scenario is.

Just as Christians believe that, to them, God is the most likely scenario.

-EDIT: Gramatical and Formating Edit.-

[This message has been edited by Accesser37 (edited 07-18-2003).]

aye i went to a very religious skool and they tried to preach religion everyday in, like the songs we used to sing everyday, and we used to prey everyday in assembely, but when i left primary school i realised fuck! TO ME there is no god, why? because the bible contradicts itself and all these science programs and shit that i wantched changed my views about god, so no i dont believe in a higher power. i dont believe in anything, i think that we are here today by chance of evolution and invention.