I'm not actually christian, but I had this weird thought about the christian idea of heaven.

So if we assume the following christian beliefs:

God created us all

God didn't create us evil

God gave us free will which is why people are evil

Heaven is a completely perfect place with total love and no sins or hatred whatsoever

So when we get to heaven, do we still have free will?

If we do then it means heaven would be far from perfect and there'd at least be some sin. Or it could mean that God only lets people who are totally pure, follow the bible 100% and never do or think bad things ever. Which must mean hell must be pretty crowded right now. Or it could mean when we get to heaven god just totally erases our free will and turns us into mindless drones, which would just suck...

quote:Originally posted by Haddock:

Or it could mean that God only lets people who are totally pure, follow the bible 100% and never do or think bad things ever.

These are the people who enter heaven. All others re-incarnate until they reach that stage themselves/have full and complete wisdom/enlightenment, whatever you wanna call it.

The life of a soul is an on going journey to remember where we came from, and find out where we are going (the same place)

When we do get to heaven, it is that time when we realise that our will and God's will is one and the same. Our 'will' will be the same as God's at that time. In the meantime, the soul re-incarnates time and again until it reaches that stage of evolution.

the way i see it...once in heaven we still have a free will...hence the reason how satan was able to sin while in heaven...but at that point those that are in heaven will be soo into God that they wont wanna sin...like the other angels...the good ones http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

All of the answers to your questions lie in the bible. You just need to do a little reading. Not everyone is going to heaven. In fact, only 144,000 will actualy "go" to heaven. Check these out...Revalation 5:9,10

and 7:4,9 14:1,3 finaly chapter 20:4. Jesus was the first of these people....Colossians 1:18. FirstPeter 2:21.

There others will live on a paradise earth, as God had originaly intended. Psalms 72:8. Revalation 21:3,4.

Basicaly God will end the present system of things. Those who survive are the ones doing his will right now. The ones who die are dead forever! They'll never ever see, hear, do, or feel anything(unconsious,dead,aware of nothing)....ever again. The ones who died before the "end" and were never taught God's will, are going to be resurected. These and the ones who live through the "end" will become perfect, as Adam and Eve were. Well this is a terrific deal that's going to happen but I realize that this reply is a bit long winded. If you want to know what happens to Satan and the rest of the story....let me know. Thanks and sorry for being so long.

Consider the story of Jesus and his friend Lazarus...in the story Jesus goes to meet his very good friend of his(Lazurus). Upon arriving there he is informed that Lazarus has died. If Lazarus had gone to "heaven" when he died. This place where we all are supposedly going. Why would Jesus then resurect him....(after 4 days mind you)

It would be like him finally getting to heaven, then Jesus sayin, get back down over here and live the rest of your life on earth. That would not be something he would've done to someone Jesus considerede to be a friend. He actualy cried when he heard of the death. YES JESUS CRIED FOR HIM!! Why would Jesus cry if Lazarus was in a better place? John chapter 11....read all of it.

[This message has been edited by AlwaysTired (edited 07-13-2003).]

in fact if you re-read those passages the 144,000 that u claim are the only ones that go to heaven are in fact just the 12 tribes of israel the ones that are saved through the old covenent...it has nothing to do with the gentiles...this thinkin that onyl 144,000 go tro heaven is a jehovehs witness teaching not a christian one...hence the reason it mentions those that have been killed for their faith...obviously not part of the 144,000 as they are mentioned first

Heaven is not a place where you are a mindless drone. I think you will become more God-like, either by God's wish or just you realizing how good it is. But, there won't be any temtation there, so you would have no reason to do wrong.

If you'd re-read the scriptures Rev.7 4-8. The tribes of the sons of Isreal cannot be the tribes of natural Isreal because there never was a tribe of Joseph, the tribes of Ephraim and Dan are not included in the list here and the Levites were set aside for service in connection with the temple but were not reckoned as one of the 12 tribes. See Numbers 1:4-16. If you'd read the scriptures John 1:10-13, Acts 2:4, 7-11, Romans 11:7. In these scriptures God extended the invitation to the Gentiles. Although the natural Jews, and Jewish proselytes were given first opportunity to be chosen for spiritual Isreal, only a minority of that nation responded.

[This message has been edited by AlwaysTired (edited 07-15-2003).]