So ive been thinking about this along time now. I started out being Protastan (sorry for the spelling in my post) and then i started going to church with my mom at an orthadox christian church, soon after that, i said fuck this and went Wiccan.... i studied that for awhile, tried some stuff, talked to people.. any who then i started looking into Satanism, afterwards i read up on Buddhism and a whole bunch of other religions or ways of life (but their names are all weird so im not gonna start with that) and what ive come to is... nothing....................

I recently decided that i dont have a religion- one of my friends (who is a strict christian) cant stand this. He wanted to know all of my reasons for not believing in god and so i went on for an hour or so raving about why he does not exsist, of course then we both got pissed at each other and went our seperate ways. Most of what he was saying to me came from the bible.. and what i dont understand is how people can believe in a book... written by another human or humans that are unknown for the most part... how can somebody base there whole lifes on somebody elses thought of life... so ummm.. i also noticed that with all of the religions out there saying that their god is the TRUE god and if you dont believe in him then you go to hell, its hard to pick the right one.. so i brought this to the attension of my little christian buddy and what he said is "well at least i know that what im doing MIGHT be the right choice, but with you, your gonna be wrong either which way you look at it because you dont believe in any thing."

I figure that i could be right as much as any other person out there with a religion. There is just so many out there, and who knows if any thing that they preach is correct?? what if nothing happens when you die and there is no god, at least then i would be happy that i spent my whole life living my dream and somebody elses written bull shit.. i dont want to spend my life living off of some book just so that i can be wrong in the end, i want to be happy- so even if one day i find out that im wrong i can stare god in the face and say "Well damn it at least im i had fun."

umm.. i was gonna say some more about this but my brain just went blank, so if any body has any thoughts about any thing up there ^ then post away.

.. i dont want people to read this and assume that im a god hater and that im closed minded, you have no idea how much i want to believe in god, or a higher being, thats what ive been searching for all my life only to end up with nothing, so if any body can direct me to god (direct as in: show me where he lives so i can go bake him a cake and read him boring poetry) then please do so!

quote:direct as in: show me where he lives so i can go bake him a cake and read him boring poetry) then please do so!

So you don't believe your friend. But you would believe what some stranger, across the Interent tells you?

...Well, He was your friend... literally.

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

I started out being Protastan (sorry for the spelling in my post) and then i started going to church with my mom at an orthadox christian church, soon after that, i said fuck this

Why?

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

and went Wiccan

Again, why?

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

i studied for awhile, tried some stuff, talked to people..

Studied what?

Tried what stuff?

Talked to who?

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

Most of what he was saying to me came from the bible.. and what i dont understand is how people can believe in a book... written by another human or humans that are unknown for the most part... how can somebody base there whole lifes on somebody elses thought of life...

Christians believe that humans who have written the books of the Bible were divinely inspired by God. The Bible is termed as God's word, not Paul's, Daniel's, Job's... The words they write have been placed in their heads from a Higher power.

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

so ummm.. i also noticed that with all of the religions out there saying that their god is the TRUE god and if you dont believe in him then you go to hell, its hard to pick the right one..

Well you don't really "pick."

I'd say you follow the God that seems to align the most with reality.

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

so i brought this to the attension of my little christian buddy

You know, you're welcome to be agnostic. It's your decision.

But please refrain from being disrespectful of people who don't agree with you.

"my little Christian buddy" - unnecessary and demeaning.

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

what he said is "well at least i know that what im doing MIGHT be the right choice, but with you, your gonna be wrong either which way you look at it because you dont believe in any thing."

He's wrong. You do believe.

You believe that the Christian God (as well as any other) could be false.

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

I figure that i could be right as much as any other person out there with a religion.

You're right.

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

i dont want to spend my life living off of some book just so that i can be wrong in the end, i want to be happy-

Well I would disagree that the Bible is "some book."

Also I would disagree that one following it would be wrong in the end.

You can be happy in faith. One of your biggest misconceptions is that you can't.

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

so even if one day i find out that im wrong i can stare god in the face and say "Well damn it at least im i had fun."

Plenty of Christians I know have fun as well.

Being a Christian does not mean ending enjoyment.

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

i dont want people to read this and assume that im a god hater and that im closed minded, you have no idea how much i want to believe in god, or a higher being, thats what ive been searching for all my life only to end up with nothing, so if any body can direct me to god (direct as in: show me where he lives so i can go bake him a cake and read him boring poetry) then please do so!

Well you're officially contradicting your words with your actions.

"I'm not a God hater, and I'm not closed-minded."

And you counter this comment with your oh-so-clever quip at the end of your post.

I am a Christian. But I am not cocky enough to claim I hold all the answers, or that the answers everybody else holds are wrong. I understand that different viewpoints exist for a reason, and that I should give even the craziest choices a fair look, and not some demeaning pat on the head that cries out "you're an idiot!". I recommend you should, too.

[This message has been edited by Direckshun (edited 08-17-2003).]

im sorta buddihst and atheist im leaning to atheist but buddishm lets you be your self while attempting to acheive spiritual enlightenment you can take part in any part of a different religion such as christmas and hanaka

I know how you feel actually. For a while I was the same way...and still kinda am. I have no religion but I do have religious beliefs. Like you, I looked into many different religions and their beliefs. Some seemed to make sense and others didn't. But in the end I kinda figured, if there are gods/goddesses out there then I am sure that there isn't just one like the christians say. Now grant it, I am not trying to say anything bad about Christians at all so don't get me wrong. I am just saying that I think there are many gods. I personally believe a lot in the Pagan/neo-pagan/celtic ways. I believe there are many gods and goddesses out there. The Christian god could be one of them too. So in true I do acknowledge him..but don't really worship.

What I am getting at is that you just need to keep Searching around, looking into different religions and what not. Eventually you may find one or even many that appeal to you. And you can chose one, or many like I have. I've got a few beliefs from many different religions and what not. Just..keep at it and dont give up. Soon you may find just what your looking for.

Good luck!

-miakia

well let me tell you that your wrong in believing that Christians can't have fun, and you take the stereotypical view of God as a being and take heaven and hell as actual places after you die. think of it this way, God is the way things are, just nature in general (not the enviroment type of nature)and God can therefore create the world in seven days and could make all the animals and people. Jesus was the son of God (not litterally but figuratively) because he was the perfect human. In what sense? His laws contributed most to society. Obey his laws and there will be heaven on earth, meaning no wars and no violence though he never mentions anything about disagreements which are bound to happen. If you don't believe in Jesus and his laws than you go to hell, which we could consider today, bu disobeying his laws. Luckily some people (not me) believe and actually practice Christ's teachings and then balance out so we are in heaven/hell. Get it now?

uhhh.. nope i dont get it.. the fact that jesus will not love me nor respect me untill i say that i believe in him is pure bull shit- in order to give respect i need to get it. And as for the "god made the world is 7 days" thats crap, you give me prove and i will believe it. I want to believe it, please, please, please, give me some actual prove.

You can talk about it all you want, but untill you can prove it... well, thats all you got... talk..

Why is proof so important?

If you believe this, prove to me that the big blue thing over my head is the sky...

I'm listening. And until you can prove it to me, you're merely believing in bullsh*t.

You people can put too much emphasis on proof.

ahahahahahaaa! im sitting over here laughing my ass off, mostley because scientists have already proven that one, not that i listened in Science class or any thing buti bleive it has something to do with this water evaporating thing which then contenses and makes it rain...... still waiting for the proof of the god thing though, pretty sad that i still dont have it. eh. your reply was very smart indeed, nice sky thing- loved it, really. Give me another one, but make it about how trees arnt really trees and how they can actually be aliens from another planet, thatll give me a laugh.

You can tone down the disrespect whenever you're ready.

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

ahahahahahaaa! im sitting over here laughing my ass off, mostley because scientists have already proven that one

Alright, then I'm sure you can prove it, too.

And this here:

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

this water evaporating thing which then contenses and makes it rain......

That's clouds.

So I'm still waiting on that 100% proof the sky exists.

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

still waiting for the proof of the god thing though, pretty sad that i still dont have it. eh.

You're never going to get it, so chill.

God can not be proven.

And the very idea that you could "believe" in something proven is nonsensical.

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

Give me another one, but make it about how trees arnt really trees and how they can actually be aliens from another planet, thatll give me a laugh.

Ah - now you got the idea.

You see, we don't know anything 100% for sure. We can't - it is not in our finite capacity to be able to do so.

Therefore why should we be so intent upon doing that very thing with God?

Geez, what would evidence of God even look like?

I'm afraid we ain't seein' it, my friend.

[This message has been edited by Direckshun (edited 08-18-2003).]

thought id look this up for you:

Main Entry: 1sky

Pronunciation: 'skI

Function: noun

Inflected Form(s): plural skies

Etymology: Middle English, cloud, sky, from Old Norse sky cloud; akin to Old English scEo cloud

Date: 13th century

1 : the upper atmosphere or expanse of space that constitutes an apparent great vault or arch over the earth

2 : HEAVEN 2

3 a : weather in the upper atmosphere b : CLIMATE <temperate English skies -- G. G. Coulton>



-----------

you like? I'm thinking about adding a picture to that but it might take awhile to waste my film and then wait for my kodak cd.

I tend to agree that budhism is a cool pick, as it doesn't tell you what to do or not .

At least for beginners, they have a very loose approach tactic. You can reach better life, yet do what you want from other religions. The catch is later on, but well, if you always stay a beginner then you're OK.

Why don't you look into Islam, Judaism or Hinduism, well stuff that you never will have any preconception because you just don't know anything about it?

Id say that Loki would be the god for me.

eh, lets all worship Loki

Loki was the bad guy. Thor was practically the only Norse God who gave two shits about us puny humans.

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

eh, lets all worship Loki

yea now your thinkin

quote:Originally posted by Kikey_Kikeowitz:

Loki was the bad guy. Thor was practically the only Norse God who gave two shits about us puny humans.

well yea, im with you on that. thor was the only one who cared alot. All of the norse gods cared to an extent, but thor did care a lot, but if you worship one yo uahve to worship all the norse gods, but i dont think you should have to pray to any thing. I just feal more conected to them, and loki above all. I belive that all the gods exested at at least one point, some still ,some not any more. I dont belive that you should have ot worship any one god or several gods to get any where in life.

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

thought id look this up for you:

Main Entry: 1sky

Pronunciation: 'skI

Function: noun

Inflected Form(s): plural skies

Etymology: Middle English, cloud, sky, from Old Norse sky cloud; akin to Old English scEo cloud

Date: 13th century

1 : the upper atmosphere or expanse of space that constitutes an apparent great vault or arch over the earth

2 : HEAVEN 2

3 a : weather in the upper atmosphere b : CLIMATE <temperate English skies -- G. G. Coulton>



-----------

you like? I'm thinking about adding a picture to that but it might take awhile to waste my film and then wait for my kodak cd.

I'm not asking for a definition of the darn thing. I know what the sky is.

Can you prove it's there?

I can give you a definition of God. Does that mean He exists?

sure you can give me a defenition of god, but then again my defenition came from a dictionary which can then be backed up by..oh, all the scientists of the world. And your defenition can only be backed up by....... a bible...... which was written by.... oh, random people of which we dont know... who were talked to by god?? damn i swear this whole 'who wrote the bible thing' is in this thread somewhere so go read it You will never be able to show me any thing or any one that wrote the bible, and the scientists and dictionary people you can find with a little bit of investigation.. further more i dont think i trust some weird freak that things he talk to some one thats not there.. and what was that other religion that said that an illiterate person wrote the bible because of what god told him to do at that moment?? and then a mass murderer says god told him to kill hundreds of people and every buddy calles him crazy and ingores the little guy. Its so sad that people can believe that an illiterate person could write a holey book but they wont believe that god told a fellow christian to kill... thats another thing that i cant understand.. and still you have not led me to believe that god exsistes or that christianity is right, or any religion at that...

so start talking and stop skipping around the subject - give me solid facts not christian bull shit.

gerg, you're a tard. religion isn't about whats the "right choice", it's about what feels right to you. nothing can be "proven" in any sense, you just have corresponding opinions, like there is a sky above us. If none of the religions mean anything to you, but you belief that there is something more than just the physical world, you should look into buddhism. It's the pursuit of spirituality and understanding, no one claims or preaches the answers, you discover your own answers for yourself. It also promotes all the good morals a religion should, without the rape of the followers like the catholic religion (donate your money time, and small boys, and you'll go to heaven)

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

sure you can give me a defenition of god, but then again my defenition came from a dictionary which can then be backed up by..oh, all the scientists of the world.

You still have yet to show how.

You keep telling me there's so much proof of the sky...but you have yet to show me any...

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

And your defenition can only be backed up by....... a bible......

Hey, I'm pulling the definition of God from the very same dictionary you're using for a definition of the sky. Dictionaries don't prove anything, God or sky.

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

damn i swear this whole 'who wrote the bible thing' is in this thread somewhere so go read it

If you're so confident, you can start your own thread and you and I can have this conversation.

Until then, don't send me on scavenger hunts across the forum.

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

You will never be able to show me any thing or any one that wrote the bible

Didn't I just get done saying the same thing?

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

and the scientists and dictionary people you can find with a little bit of investigation..

They still haven't proven the sky is there. They tell me a sky is there, but I have yet to see proof. Can you show me any proof?

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

further more i dont think i trust some weird freak that things he talk to some one thats not there..

Well, that's open-minded.

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

and what was that other religion that said that an illiterate person wrote the bible because of what god told him to do at that moment?? and then a mass murderer says god told him to kill hundreds of people and every buddy calles him crazy and ingores the little guy.

Well, who says the blind guy idea is false?

I'm not saying it's true, but it's certainly possible.

And use a little common sense - a mass murderer who tells us the Christian God is ordering him to kill is contradicting the very Christian faith.

Why exactly did you bring these up?

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

Its so sad that people can believe that an illiterate person could write a holey book but they wont believe that god told a fellow christian to kill...

Actually, it's not sad at all.

One of the above people are committing acts that run counter to God's Word, one is not.

How is that a contradiction on my behalf?

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

and still you have not led me to believe that god exsistes or that christianity is right, or any religion at that...

I was unaware my job was to make sure GERG279 started believing in God.

I'm not trying to convert you, GERG.

You're obviously not interested in God, so why would I waste my time?

But your original post was incorrect in several ways - my intention with my response was to correct those inaccuracies. Not to convert you.

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

so start talking and stop skipping around the subject

I believe I've responded to everything you've said - I think that's sticking pretty close to the subject, GERG.

I'm sorry you're not hearing me providing any proof, because there isn't any.

But just because I'm not saying what you want me to say doesn't mean I'm not sticking to the subject.

quote:Originally posted by GERG279:

give me solid facts not christian bull shit.

I have said that solid facts don't exist, right?

Hm, so what would a solid fact to prove God's existence be like? Maybe you could tell me where to start looking.

You could bake me a cake and read me boring poetry, I'd love a different mind and soul around for a bit. Could you make it a cheese cake, I looooove cheese cake

quote:Originally posted by Direckshun:

Can you prove it's there?

Actually, what asked for was proof that the blue thing over your head was the sky.

You could have been referring to a blue painted ceiling or a balloon I suppose. Otherwise, with his definition he has proven it.

quote:I can give you a definition of God. Does that mean He exists?

I doubt you could give a definition that truly did justice.

quote:They still haven't proven the sky is there. They tell me a sky is there, but I have yet to see proof. Can you show me any proof?

Well, you mentioned that it was big and blue. Therefore it is likely that you saw it.

If you see something, it is fairly certain that it is there, as other possibilities (some sort of projection?) are unlikely.

quote:Hm, so what would a solid fact to prove God's existence be like? Maybe you could tell me where to start looking.

A genuine documented and investigated miracle would do the trick, I think. Water into wine, a Lazarus style resurrection. Of course, that still wouldn't prove a Christian God - to prove that he would actually have to make an appearance.

Getting back to the original question; don't pick your religion. Let it pick you. If it hasn't found you, just believe in what is right. I have no religion, yet I believe there are bigger things and mysteries that I don't understand. Religion only makes people angry and self rightieous for some reason. Form your own religion and philosophies, after all, most religious sects, were founded by one or a few individual(s)anyway. And all of them are merely based on one group or individuals interpretation of the bible or the mysteries of life. Cut your own path.

quote:Originally posted by Craftian:

Actually, what asked for was proof that the blue thing over your head was the sky.

You could have been referring to a blue painted ceiling or a balloon I suppose. Otherwise, with his definition he has proven it.

To prove something, you must need more than a definition. I will demonstrate this just below in this post.

quote:Originally posted by Craftian:

I doubt you could give a definition that truly did justice.

I can define unicorns - does that mean they exist?

quote:Originally posted by Craftian:

Well, you mentioned that it was big and blue. Therefore it is likely that you saw it.

If you see something, it is fairly certain that it is there, as other possibilities (some sort of projection?) are unlikely.

That isn't proof, however. That is likelihood.

Where is the irrefutable proof?

quote:Originally posted by Craftian:

A genuine documented and investigated miracle would do the trick, I think. Water into wine, a Lazarus style resurrection. Of course, that still wouldn't prove a Christian God

Good point.

How would the investigation take place, however? Would there be a study of how a certain event defied conventional science, which would somehow conclude in the workings of a Higher Power?

quote:Originally posted by Craftian:

[God] would actually have to make an appearance [to prove His existence].

That's probably the best answer I could possibly get.

But God has no legitimate reason to do so, so why are we still so pent up on evidence?

Because supposeably people are getting damned to eternal fiery torment due to God's obstinate refusal to show himself.

quote:Originally posted by Dark_Magneto:

Because supposeably people are getting damned to eternal fiery torment due to God's obstinate refusal to show himself.

That's just crazy talk.

quote:To prove something, you must need more than a definition. I will demonstrate this just below in this post.

Of course you do. What you asked for was proof that the blue thing over your head was the sky. Not that the sky existed.

Unless you were thinking of some other blue thing, by definition that is the sky.

quote:That isn't proof, however. That is likelihood.

Where is the irrefutable proof?

Look up the scientific method sometime. There is no such thing as irrefutable proof.

quote:How would the investigation take place, however? Would there be a study of how a certain event defied conventional science, which would somehow conclude in the workings of a Higher Power?

The most convenient way to do would be to have a Jesus-style miracle worker agree to perform a miracle at a certain time and place, under the scrutiny of reliable scientific people, with monitoring equipment set up, etc. Unless the Second Coming happens sometime soon, this is unlikely to happen.

quote:That's probably the best answer I could possibly get.

But God has no legitimate reason to do so, so why are we still so pent up on evidence?

Uh... because evidence is the only thing that will give the Christian myth any credence?

Besides, if God wants everybody to get into heaven, he would give evidence even if only to convert the millions of atheists.

eh, sorry i havent posted in awhile, but they stoped notifying me of replys and that confused the shit out of me.

But now theres too many for me to reply to so i'll just say that the reason why proof is so important to me is ... well.. look at it this way if thousands of people jumped off of the broklyn bridge because they thought that once you hit you go into another demnsion.. i wouldnt do it, i would say: you crazy piece of shit, give me some proof that there is another demnsion and then i'll jump.

i dont know if that makes sense or not, but thats how i look at it.

-any who thanks for all of your diferent oppinions, i wasnt expecting this post to go on fire.

keep em coming this is interesting.

quote:Originally posted by Kikey_Kikeowitz:

That's just crazy talk.



Heheh. I can see it now. "Interview with God".

God: Throw s'more souls on the barbey! I want those flames at least 50 feet tall at all times!

God: Oh, excuse me. are we on yet?

Interviewer: God, there are talks about you creating logical minds, not giving them any logical reason for them to even seriously consider your existence as real, and then damning them to hellfire.

God: Now that's just ridiculous. It's crazy talk I tell you. Idle speculation and nothing more.

*Screaming is heard below a hatch in the floor*

*Hatch pops up for a brief moment and burning body comes half out*

Burning body: "How could you be so cruel! Auuugh!"

*God kicks body back in flaming pit and puts foot over hatch to prevent a repeat occurrance*

Interviewer: What the hell was that!?

God: *eyes looking away* "Nothing!"

[This message has been edited by Dark_Magneto (edited 08-21-2003).]