According to Genesis, Adam and Eve were created by God and placed in the Garden of Eden. They were without sin, and could live there happily for ever, but could not eat the apple from the tree of knowledge.

But along came the serpent,the serpent temps Eve, Eve temps Adam, they both take a bite of the apple. God comes along and throws them out of edan and there descendants for ever, as punishment. God also throws in a few other things as punishment like having to work, labor pains, killing, ect. ect. I know there is more but cant think of them right now but you ge the point.

So where is the paradox? Right?

Adam and Eve had to make a decision but they cant, they are free of sin, dont know right from wrong. Like to eat the apple is bad or to eat the apple is good. They did not have any knowledge of this so they had to eat the apple to know what was right or wrong. Then after eating the apple they had realize that eating the apple was wrong.

I think the whole thing is to symbolise the harmful effects that illicit sex has upon a soul.

The apple signifies Eve's minge (somehow, perhaps the fruit of her womb or something).

The snake is adams dick that tempts him into trying eve's fruit.

Once adam tries the fruit (has sex), he becomes a slave to the desires of sex and therefore no longer has complete control over his urges. In other words he is attached to fulfilling his desires and no longer has a mind that could be considered pure, or enlightened.

The beauty of eden cannot be seen since his mind is clouded by desires.

Adam and Eve probably did know right from wrong well...kind of. I mean they were tempted and that can often times shrowd(spelling) what we know to be right and wrong. I don't understand how you can get the fact that being free from sin also means..being free from knowledge of anything.And hadn't God told them NOT to eat from the tree? So..there forth they knew better than to do it, but like it is stated. Eve was tempted. I mean, haven't you ever done something you know is wrong but there was a part of you that really wanted to do it anyways? I am sure that this is what happened with Eve.

-miakia

Adam and Eve did not know anything for example, that they where naked. So with that kind of mental aptitude.

They sure would not know right from wrong.

Sin definition from Merriam-Websters

2 a : transgression of the law of God b : a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God

In the garden they where one with god and free from sin

You are missing the point of this so far

but I do like the Freud aspect.

This is an iteresting thought. Adam and Eve were both absolutley perfect in every way. This fact does not change that other very important factor. God gave them free will. So they know what's right and what's wrong yet they still have a choice. God could've easily created us as robots to do his every deed. But he didn't. He's not our commander, but more like a father.

Adam and Eve were far from perfect. They had little to no knowledge. In my opinion, that means that they're not only unperfect, but pretty much worthless.

I remember reading that they were under strict orders to "be fruitiful and multiply".

The real problem with a literal reading of Genesis, if one subscribes to such a thing, is reality being incompatable with it.

Animals existed thousands of years before humans. Supposeably, before humans unknowingly fucked up the world with this magical pandora's box in the form of an apple that God gave them for no good damned reason whatsoever, there was no death.

But as we can clearly see, animals, plants, and all forms of life lived and died long before the existence of humans.

So that means I call bullshit to a literal reading of Genesis.

The only thing left to do, as all theology does once it enters the damage-control state of being directly falsified when read as it was intended to be, is retreat into ambiguity and claim Genesis to be "figurative" and "metaphorical".

I'm convinced that such a practice, retreat into ambiguity upon falsification, is not only unworthy, but fatal. For a doctrine which is able to maintain itself not in clear light but only in the dark, will of necessity lose its effect on mankind, with incalculable harm to human progress.

If it doesn't fit, the twist it around until it does, and then pretend like it's been that way forever. Such an amazing display of Orwellian doublethink and subjective interpretation should not go unnoticed.

[This message has been edited by Dark_Magneto (edited 08-18-2003).]

quote:Originally posted by Dark_Magneto:

I remember reading that they were under strict orders to "be fruitiful and multiply".

The real problem with a literal reading of Genesis, if one subscribes to such a thing, is reality being incompatable with it.

Animals existed thousands of years before humans. Supposeably, before humans unknowingly fucked up the world with this magical pandora's box in the form of an apple that God gave them for no good damned reason whatsoever, there was no death.

But as we can clearly see, animals, plants, and all forms of life lived and died long before the existence of humans.

So that means I call bullshit to a literal reading of Genesis.

The only thing left to do, as all theology does once it enters the damage-control state of being directly falsified when read as it was intended to be, is retreat into ambiguity and claim Genesis to be "figurative" and "metaphorical".

I'm convinced that such a practice, retreat into ambiguity upon falsification, is not only unworthy, but fatal. For a doctrine which is able to maintain itself not in clear light but only in the dark, will of necessity lose its effect on mankind, with incalculable harm to human progress.

If it doesn't fit, the twist it around until it does, and then pretend like it's been that way forever. Such an amazing display of Orwellian doublethink and subjective interpretation should not go unnoticed.

[This message has been edited by Dark_Magneto (edited 08-18-2003).]

I am truly amazed at the way your mind thinks, and how you can can apply it to writing...I wish my thoughts werent all jumbled and come out all wrong lol.

Anyway...the tree is not only the tree of 'Good and Evil' but of 'Knowledge', each translation is different, check the bottom of the pages of the bible...Now what this makes me think is...why would god have that tree there? Why would it be the tree of knowledge? Is he tempting humans? Is this another challenge God and Satan have going like Job?

Anyone else realise this is the only time god appears in the whole bible in physical manifestation?? God becomes jealous...he cant have equals...so he casts 'us' out etc etc blah blah. Ideas?

props for pointing out the subconcious doublethink involved in believing in god.

Another point, If God is omnipotent when he created man he would have known that they would be weak and naive enough to fall to temptation, if he wasn't omnipotent and created man as an experiment in hopes that they wouldn't fall to temptation, why would he punish them for doing so when he made them in the first place. It all comes down to the illusion of free will, which beyond any doubt shows that any animal, humans included, will act the way they do, and therefore reward/punishment for acting in the way they're going to regardless is arbitrary.

Adam and Eve were free of sin, but they still had free will, and still lived in a universe where they understood that God was to be obeyed under all circumstances. You forgot that part of the story, weasel.

The Bible never claimed they were incapable of deciphering right from wrong.

Right = God's command

Wrong = disobeying God's command

Why do you think the serpent had to tempt Eve, anyway? Because she knew it was wrong.

Disappointed in some of the replies in this forum.

Well A&E were the closest to their creator ever, directly made from his words. The whole story is psychic, not physical. The "tree of knowledge of good and evil", is like the parents telling you something because they know it for sure, and you thinking "ah, shit, these old cows telling me again how I should think", and having your own experiences.

Well, Adam and Eve were the highest souls on Earth ever. They fucked up. The generation of Moses were the next biggest souls, they had witnessed split of red sea, mount Sinai, etc... Yet they did fuck up, too.

Anyone can fuck up, regardless how high spirits they may be.

Example: I fucked up a lot in my life, even though I'm smart, and french. You see, it doesn't matter how perfect you may be. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

why do you all insist on believing the stories from your childhood and then bouncing other beliefs that come after them off this original picture? maybe what you first learned wasn't true... maybe stories about the past aren't 100% accurate... maybe you're dumbasses for thinking so.

Cool it, d4v3.

You need to learn to talk when you have something to say. http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif)

^^

and that was saying a lot? read my reply in the atheist philosophy, it sums up my opinion of you (yes, everything i say is my opinion, like what you say is yours, get over yourself)

It's all mythology. I personally believe in evolution, and I think primates have been eating apples for a very long time, and take great pleausre in it. So yeah, according to the story there is a paradox, but its just a story. There's no fact to back it up.

quote:Originally posted by redemption:

I am truly amazed at the way your mind thinks, and how you can can apply it to writing...I wish my thoughts werent all jumbled and come out all wrong lol.

Anyway...the tree is not only the tree of 'Good and Evil' but of 'Knowledge', each translation is different, check the bottom of the pages of the bible...Now what this makes me think is...why would god have that tree there? Why would it be the tree of knowledge? Is he tempting humans? Is this another challenge God and Satan have going like Job?

Anyone else realise this is the only time god appears in the whole bible in physical manifestation?? God becomes jealous...he cant have equals...so he casts 'us' out etc etc blah blah. Ideas?



Good job!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why is the tree there??? Is a major part of the paradox.

It's just a rehash of the pandora's box myth.

It's a rather poor way of simply saying "shit happens and there's nothing anybody can do about it". Except it personifies the creator of the shit that will happen as this omnimax trickster being that set up the entire thing and watched it play out exactly as he knew an eternity in advance it would.

Yep you got it

God set us up to fail and we had no choice in the matter.

quote:Originally posted by d4v3:

^^

and that was saying a lot? read my reply in the atheist philosophy, it sums up my opinion of you (yes, everything i say is my opinion, like what you say is yours, get over yourself)

Oh, I'm not going to lose too much sleep over your opinion of me. Open fire if you wish.

I'm just saying - your post didn't even relate to anyone's answers in this topic. It was just angered drivel propelled by your desire to make someone besides yourself look stupid.

My post called you on it.

It's hard to take the opposing side without being bombarded from every angle.hahahah I will continue to do so...That just goes to show how we really do live in satan's world. And it's sad to see how many are doing his will. hahahahhah

quote:Originally posted by Direckshun:

Oh, I'm not going to lose too much sleep over your opinion of me. Open fire if you wish.

I'm just saying - your post didn't even relate to anyone's answers in this topic. It was just angered drivel propelled by your desire to make someone besides yourself look stupid.

My post called you on it.

my post did relate, it mentioned not arguing made up semantics about a made up story, which is very logical. you're just too stupid to pick up on literal meanings of the english language i guess.

quote:Originally posted by LwaysTired:

...That just goes to show how we really do live in satan's world. And it's sad to see how many are doing his will. hahahahhah

Make no mistake, though it bears many names, the dark one you speak of, in it's true form, is noneother than the Evil Eye of Orms-By-Gore!!!

http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/evil_eye_of_orms_by_gore.jpg (http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/evil_eye_of_orms_by_gore.jpg)

Fortunately, I have him captured and confined to a polyproplene sleeve, catalogued, and locked away in a plastic box prison where it shall remain for an indefinate amount of time.

ARE YOU A MORON!? Gos specifically said DONT EAT THE FUCKING APPLE. If you dont know the whole story than dont speak, ass.

Hey Dark_Magneto, what set is that card from? It's pretty old isn't it? You still play Magic the Gathering?

*laughing at Dark* You're too much.

quote:Originally posted by noraa_boy:

Hey Dark_Magneto, what set is that card from? It's pretty old isn't it? You still play Magic the Gathering?

It's from Legends. Yeah, I still play every now and then.

Was it even an apple?

The Bible doesn't specify a fruit.

Wouldn't it have been a fig or whatnot?

I dont see tha paradox, they eat tha apple, realize that is was wrong, what is contradicting about that?