You cannot similtaneously believe in Heaven/Hell and the idea of Fate, because the ideas contradict themselves. If your actions are destined, it would be arbitrary to be rewarded (go to heaven) or be punished (sent to hell) for the actions that god destined you to do anyway. If you currently posses this line of doublethink, it's time to re-asses your religious beliefs.

Ever notice how in a dream you'll be some where where you have no idea where you are or who you're with, you just somehow know your in your friends house with your best friend and his girlfriend and her friend or something like that. You won't really know what's going on, why it's going on, or what you're doing. You merely go with the flow of the dream, but every once in a while you can change it. You know the dreams flowing towards you doing something, but you can do something completely different which will usually land you in a completely different realm of the dream or just wake you up.

think about it.

Perhaps free will is a trap, perhaps lack of free will is the trap. Maybe there's no trap at all, and it's all a joke. What if it were my joke on you? Would you still laugh at the foolishness of those who believe? Would you believe yourself? Or would you believe in nothing? Which is belief.

Have you ever felt more significant then the expressions and representations around you, all the things you created, all the surroundings you surrounded yourself with? The company you keep, the body that you contain? Have you ever tried to take that importance and put a face on it?

I thought so.

i constantly feel caught up in the trap of illusionary free will, without it i'd go insane. you can't truly ever beleive everything that will happen will happen, because you would lose the will to act on your own, doublethink to the rescue.

i constantly feel like there is something more, something sprititual, some inner connectedness. i wish i could feel more

quote:Originally posted by I_Like_Traffic_Lights:

Ever notice how in a dream you'll be some where where you have no idea where you are or who you're with, you just somehow know your in your friends house with your best friend and his girlfriend and her friend or something like that. You won't really know what's going on, why it's going on, or what you're doing. You merely go with the flow of the dream, but every once in a while you can change it. You know the dreams flowing towards you doing something, but you can do something completely different which will usually land you in a completely different realm of the dream or just wake you up.

think about it.

Perhaps free will is a trap, perhaps lack of free will is the trap. Maybe there's no trap at all, and it's all a joke. What if it were my joke on you? Would you still laugh at the foolishness of those who believe? Would you believe yourself? Or would you believe in nothing? Which is belief.

Have you ever felt more significant then the expressions and representations around you, all the things you created, all the surroundings you surrounded yourself with? The company you keep, the body that you contain? Have you ever tried to take that importance and put a face on it?

I thought so.

*Brain Explodes*

There is something more, you are that something more. The concepts of freel will and the like can be confusing because....well because we only have language to describe our thoughts and this weakens them greatly. Language is a simple structure, a set of rules. So if you can only use language to think, you can only think using that said set of rules. If you're a thinker, and chances are if you're here you're a thinker, then after so long the structure of language has run every possible course and it begins to feel as if you just go through the motions. It feels like it's all been said before, and interest in conversation begins to lack as you notice the things you say and the things other say popping up so frequently to the point of annoyance.

You can't really change "free will" like flipping on a light switch, but you can kind of use it, coax it along a path you feel like doing. It doesn't look like free will experiencing it, but throughout the big picture you can see fluxuation, breaths of fresh air, and creativity. You can use the repetitious set of rules to be anybody...this time around. You could be Einstien this time around, you could be Krishna this time around, or you can let it all get to you and be that guy joe who works down the street that gets drunk and watches the game on weekends.

That something more is merely clouded by perception.

Thats why I have two selves. Its much more effiecent in coping with confusion. I have my stupid dumbass clumbsy falls-down-stairs and play invisible gun fights. and then i have my understanding, depths-of-perception, theoretical and dramatic self. Slowly but surely im letting the latter take over. The first is just for relaxation from thought.

Or maybe I am God and I created all of you because I was subconciously lonely... And im slowly realizing this fact. You all exist, because I created you. You will fight for your survival, of course, you will deny this, but in all truth I am the only one that truly existed form scratch. And from which origins i cannot comprehend. All I can say is that the Old Testament of the Bible is all about me creating the world around me as I came out of the womb, which I also created. I created my parents, I created my world, and my ethics. I created my physics and my physical avatar and my friends. Scary feeling knowing your alone... Or maybe you all exist and I am jsut insane....

Jesus said that through his teachings there would be heaven on earth. Why not hell? People who believe in the literal translation of the bible believe that they actually Go somewhere, as if they actually travel up above or down below the earth. Those people should be dragged out into the street and shot for there stupidity (half of what I said i was joking)

If it takes language to create thought,

and thought to create language,

which came first?

Perhaps they never began but simply 'are'.

(Hypothetical) Logical thought process:

You begin to think predestination is real.

You realize that your actions mean nothing because what is meant to happen will happen.

This causes you to stop doing things.



So because of the reality of predestination you are predestined to do what you do in this case.

The reasons don't matter for doing something, the fact is, you do it, Resulting in only 1 path in life. And if they was only one path then, the path of history, then there is only 1 path now. The path of the future. Our ignorance of that path makes it no less real.

Our ignorance of the mysteries of the Universe make them no less real.

Our choice is to live out our lives, because that is the way it is meant to be.

quote:Originally posted by AYBABTU:

If it takes language to create thought,

and thought to create language,

which came first?

Perhaps they never began but simply 'are'.

(Hypothetical) Logical thought process:

You begin to think predestination is real.

You realize that your actions mean nothing because what is meant to happen will happen.

This causes you to stop doing things.



So because of the reality of predestination you are predestined to do what you do in this case.

The reasons don't matter for doing something, the fact is, you do it, Resulting in only 1 path in life. And if they was only one path then, the path of history, then there is only 1 path now. The path of the future. Our ignorance of that path makes it no less real.

Our ignorance of the mysteries of the Universe make them no less real.

Our choice is to live out our lives, because that is the way it is meant to be.

Excellent explanation. I couldn't say it better my self.