this is a message to all .....so called christians out there.....

the next time a loved one dies......dont cry..because as a believer you know that they are going to heaven....

so rest assured and rejoice for they are with your maker....

and the next time you get seriously ill......refuse all medication....because is it not better to go to heaven than suffer any longer on earth.......and dont give me that bullshit about ....i want to stay on earth to do gods work....

the fact is ....as christians you have faith in god......what i am saying is that you must understand that when you are dead ...faith will no longer be an issue for you as you will be with god himself in heaven (god bless you, jesus loves you and all that crap)....

so really all you christians should be gagging to die....and all you muslims ......so you have my total backing...i hope you all die as soon as possible then you can rejoice in heaven...

so drop dead quick please and rejoice.....

please spread this message

You are a heartles spiteful bastard who has no faith. Wait until you are old and have nothing to believe in. You will be lonely.

I am sick and tired of your hubris, what on earth makes you think that you are better than, me or anyone? Seriously, you are just flesh like everyone else, nothing sets you apart from me, We are equal in my mind, you are just pessemistic and close-minded.

One day you will see that god and life flows within you and within us all.

Also, you should really think out your opinions, most are half-assed and biased, I would suggest reading up on theology of all denomnations and faith, before you start spotuting off facts.

[This message has been edited by punkrawkerstonershit (edited 09-04-2003).]

Nobody knows where they are going when they die, it is all speculation. And regardless of your faith, the emotions of human loss (espcially that of family) can cripple your mental stability. I am muslim and am I gonna refuse medication??? Hell no. If God wanted me dead he wouldn't have given me an oppurtunity to go to a doctor and recieve medication. When you die is when you die and then, it is your time. Suicide is most heinous. Anyone who intentionally shortens their own life will probably feel the fire.

quote:Originally posted by punkrawkerstonershit:

You are a heartles spiteful bastard who has no faith. Wait until you are old and have nothing to believe in. You will be lonely.

I am sick and tired of your hubris, what on earth makes you think that you are better than, me or anyone? Seriously, you are just flesh like everyone else, nothing sets you apart from me, We are equal in my mind, you are just pessemistic and close-minded.

One day you will see that god and life flows within you and within us all.

Also, you should really think out your opinions, most are half-assed and biased, I would suggest reading up on theology of all denomnations and faith, before you start spotuting off facts.

[This message has been edited by punkrawkerstonershit (edited 09-04-2003).]



just die and then you can be with god yeh....and god bless you.....

quote:Originally posted by Wings Of Azrael:

Nobody knows where they are going when they die, it is all speculation. And regardless of your faith, the emotions of human loss (espcially that of family) can cripple your mental stability. I am muslim and am I gonna refuse medication??? Hell no. If God wanted me dead he wouldn't have given me an oppurtunity to go to a doctor and recieve medication. When you die is when you die and then, it is your time. Suicide is most heinous. Anyone who intentionally shortens their own life will probably feel the fire.

then when you are near death...get a clone made and also make sure they cryogenically freeze your body so that they can revive you in the near future ..........

after all you just said 'hell no if god wanted me dead he wouldnt have given me the opportunity to go to a doctor...so im saying he has aslo given you the opportunity to be cloned and frozen .....so do it....

Exactly what did we (Christians) do to you? I'm not forcing you to believe! If you don't believe that is fine with me! You don't want to believe so fine just leave it at that, you don't need to attack people and just make yourself look like a hatefull vengfull person....oh ya and complement exepted thanks.

quote:Originally posted by punkrawkerstonershit:

You are a heartles spiteful bastard who has no faith. Wait until you are old and have nothing to believe in. You will be lonely.

I am sick and tired of your hubris, what on earth makes you think that you are better than, me or anyone? Seriously, you are just flesh like everyone else, nothing sets you apart from me, We are equal in my mind, you are just pessemistic and close-minded.

One day you will see that god and life flows within you and within us all.

Also, you should really think out your opinions, most are half-assed and biased, I would suggest reading up on theology of all denomnations and faith, before you start spotuting off facts.

[This message has been edited by punkrawkerstonershit (edited 09-04-2003).]



i dont ever want anything to believe in......

as belief itself is a pointless exercise to me ......why spend your life believing in something you never find...what a waste of time.....your right i have no faith in your religion...and i dont want any....

i didnt say i was better than you......all are equal to me...

by pessimistic ....i think you hit a nail on the head....i am not pessimistic.....but to you ...a man without faith is pessimistic....because as far as i am concerned that is why you have faith....because you are scarred to death that when you die it is the end....you dont want to believe that .....and your thirst for life and hence your ego is great.....you are afraid that all of this life you lead is leading to a dead end .....and so you find something to believe in...in order to take away that fear...

the thing is though ....im not sure you or i are just flesh and bones.... i hope to find out exactly what we are over the coming years....by looking within rather than outward, at books and things....i want to realise the truth for myself ....for i am convinced that that is the only way....

im not interested in reading up on faiths ......ive had my fill.......im interested in spending that valuable reading time .......uncovering the truth about what i am as a man.......and to me this is the most important thing in life ......its a matter of urgency for i could die tomorrow....and until i realis and become enlightened .......i dont want to die......

but if i was a christian then i would want to die as my faith would assure me that i would be going to heaven.

im a person that says what he means ...and means what he says ....i dont care whether you like it or not...i will say absolutely anything i want to ...i am not bohered if my opinions upset people because they touch on topics such as death...death is coming to us all and should be discussed openly and pondered regularly.......my opinion can be changed by proving me wrong ...i am totally open to change ......

quote:Originally posted by jonboyw75:

Exactly what did we (Christians) do to you? I'm not forcing you to believe! If you don't believe that is fine with me! You don't want to believe so fine just leave it at that, you don't need to attack people and just make yourself look like a hatefull vengfull person....oh ya and complement exepted thanks.



i just want you christians to understand that if you were true christians then death should be rejoiced at and looked forward to...

you may be leaving you family....but its only for a few years and then you can all spend an eternity together in heaven.......

basically i dont really think that many christians really believe...im trying to make them admit to themselves that they dont . and then they can spend their lives more productively and be truthful to themselves.........

i think this is a worthy cause.

eBlip has a very valid point, believe it or not.

Hey eBlip,

I do look forward to the next life. But also, as a Christian, I have an obligation to let nature take its course, you know it all dumbass. And your argument about me killing myself to prove my faith in God and His heaven makes about as much sense as you going ahead and killing yourself to show me that yeah, you REALLY don't believe in nothing.

Ummm...I'm going to pray for you too.

Dr. Spankins

Medication and doctors are within reason and logic. Cloning and being frozen are not. There were doctors at the time of the bible and quran therefore I feel they are perfectly feasible. The stuff you speak is a way to circumvent God, and that just isn't gonna happen. You must think religious people have no normal human feelings...nobody (with the exception of a few) wants to die. We are not above that feeling. Fear of the unknown. Even if we have a vague idea, we still don't know. By the way, who pissed in your corn flakes this morning?

quote:Originally posted by Dr. Spankinz:

Hey eBlip,

I do look forward to the next life. But also, as a Christian, I have an obligation to let nature take its course, you know it all dumbass. And your argument about me killing myself to prove my faith in God and His heaven makes about as much sense as you going ahead and killing yourself to show me that yeah, you REALLY don't believe in nothing.

Ummm...I'm going to pray for you too.

Dr. Spankins





im in no way saying christians should kill themselves ...that is against gods wish....

what im saying is dont prolong your life in any way whatsoever and look forward to the death of your mother father and loved one and finally yourself......

i hope you meet your maker as soon as possible

quote:Originally posted by Wings Of Azrael:

Medication and doctors are within reason and logic. Cloning and being frozen are not. There were doctors at the time of the bible and quran therefore I feel they are perfectly feasible. The stuff you speak is a way to circumvent God, and that just isn't gonna happen. You must think religious people have no normal human feelings...nobody (with the exception of a few) wants to die. We are not above that feeling. Fear of the unknown. Even if we have a vague idea, we still don't know. By the way, who pissed in your corn flakes this morning?



im sure cloning and being frozen will seem like logic in 2000 years time mate......

i dont feel these are a way to circumvent god....that is your opinion.....like you said earlier god has made all these things available to you......from the same doctors that treat your heart disease and aids.

i think that religious people have normal human feelings... but like in the bible ....if someone rapes your mother ...you may want to kill that person but you must override this feeling and love the person.....for he knows not what he does...

now when your mother and kids die .....do the same ....override those feelings with religious feelings of joy...for they are in heaven....

the reason you cry is that you know you will never ever see that person again.....

now stop lying to yourself you part time muslim

and you say you only have a vague idea of what heaven is like ..........well that just means that mohamed didnt describe it properly...tell me which sura describes heaven in the koran and i will rip it out as only half a job...

maybe you should become a christian and read the bible because heaven is described pretty well in there.......

so all this unknown business is bollocks



[This message has been edited by eBlip (edited 09-04-2003).]

Insult my faith if you wish, but someday you will meet your maker. Anger is also human emotion you should restrain. I feel like if I were near you when you uttered your negative comment about my faith that I would not have been able to restrain myself. You are infidel of highest degree. Death should be prescribed for you. You're one load that should have been caught in a condom and slung up against a wall.

quote:Originally posted by Wings Of Azrael:

Insult my faith if you wish, but someday you will meet your maker. Anger is also human emotion you should restrain. I feel like if I were near you when you uttered your negative comment about my faith that I would not have been able to restrain myself. You are infidel of highest degree. Death should be prescribed for you. You're one load that should have been caught in a condom and slung up against a wall.

im not angry at all ........i havent got an ego.....like you...please restrain yourself..from any violence....i mean if god exists then you are right ....so why be angry.......

im not angry because i know he doesnt exist...and i am right so there is no need to get even slightly aroused....

god bless you.....jesus loves you....amen

Well I know He does exist and you insult my faith and God by your dispicable words. You will get what you deserve. And there is plenty of reason to be angry and feel rage...if there were enough people like you and people like me were passive, believers would be wiped from the face of the earth.

quote:Originally posted by Wings Of Azrael:

Well I know He does exist and you insult my faith and God by your dispicable words. You will get what you deserve. And there is plenty of reason to be angry and feel rage...if there were enough people like you and people like me were passive, believers would be wiped from the face of the earth.

whats wrong with that ......believers being wiped off the face of the earth ......after all that is what i encourage........and you should be glad of it .....so you can spend all day with invisible god .....in invisible heaven.........

ye shall reap what ye have sown....fear not for word is with god ......god bles you...and jesus loves even the most dispicable people for ye are all the children of god.......love thine enimies as you love thine friends......

thou shalt have NO GOD BEFORE ME. for i am a jelous god.

a jealous god means he has a big ego....

so tell your god to bow down and kiss my hairy arse.

eBlip,

If there is only one true God, then his instruction to 'have no gods before Him' is actually a command to be intelligent. If there is not one true God, then who the hell cares, right?

It is laughable that you say you don't have an ego. Ummm...Right, dude, right. I'd rather be faced with the proposition of convincing someone that there is a God, than that you don't have an ego. The way someone becomes humble is by always reminding themselves that they DO have an ego, and thus, they can be careful to not let their ego get in the way of truth, or good manners.

And Hey, You Wings of Azrael guy---you're not going to start blowing shit up, are you?

the Doctor

If that is the case, I would slit your throat, infidel. You mock God at your every chance, and God will not grant you respite forever. Your time WILL come. I could only wish to spend all of eternity with God. That is the goal of any true believer. To be near Him in the paradise he created would be the best and most majestic of endings. You are an enemy of God. And an enemy of faith. And people such as you deserve the wrath and emnity of God. Ego? The man with the biggest ego is the one who thinks he is in control of his own destiny. He is not only egocentric, but destined to a severe chastisment by the Most High. You should be executed. Then the world would be a better place.

Islam is a pieceful religion. A piece of eBlip over here, and a piece of eBlip over there.

DS

Why don't you all kill eachother in the name of religion...whether for or against it...I don't care, but the sooner the whole planet is cleansed of the ignorance that picks up a rock for want of words, the better.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".....

Ironic that if we all followed that, stones would stay in their rightful place upon the ground and not flying through the air to strike eachother...Yet if we stoned all the sinners to death, the same would eventually hold true...

Do you really think "killing the infidel" is the answer? like a hydra two more will spring up in his place...and the harder you fight, the more ammunition you give them with which to inflame and anger you, and draw you farther from the heart of your faith into the enactment of violence in the name of a faith you no longer can see the root of...until you are nothign but a hopeless fanatic flailing rocks at anything that move without saying "Allah may I" first....Maybe you should refocus...or maybe you should kill the infidels until they eventually kill you...it's irrelevent...except that wars cause more suffering and do more damage to faith than any one infidel and his words of hate and ignorance.....

If you must kill, don't do it for god...he can kill on his own...kill for you...be honest with yourself. If God cared enough to want someone dead, it's well within his power to make them die, he doesn't need your help...to believe otherwise is hubris of the highest order...

"I kill you for God/Allah!"...ignorance and hubris...

"I kill you for me"...truth, knowledge, and self acceptance.

Embrace your darkness or cast it out, don't hide it behind the illusion of your religion. Such delusions are nauseating.

-=CW=-

This man is an oppressor and if he could he would wipe believers from the earth. God prescribed fighting the oppressors of faith in the Noble Quran. He has inflamed me with his disrespect for God. This is not just a sin. I do not judge on sin. Denial of God is an attack on my faith. There is no person on this earth without sin. In the end times there will be the righteous, the infidel, and the passive. The righteous will fight for the preservation of God while the infidels will fight to destroy it, and the passive people who don't believe in fighting might as well be infidels, because they will not fight in the name of God to preserve His faith. So anyone that will not fight for God with his possessions, his wealth or his people is not a true believer. And I will NOT fall in that category. I am taught to defend God, not be passive and let people defame Him and criticize Him in my presence. If anyone here professes belief in God, they would do they same and not let a person dishonor the Most High and the only One worthy of worship.

quote:This man is an oppressor and if he could he would wipe believers from the earth.

Dammit! Now you're making me agree with eBlip for a second. You crazy ass Muslim, not every body that disagrees with you wants to kill you, so therefore, you have to beat them to to the punch. In your case, I'm agreeing with eBlip: Please Go To Allah! Go now! You are such a fucking bore! quote:God prescribed fighting the oppressors of faith in the Noble Quran. eBlip is not oppressing you. He's just acting like an ass! Big deal! Asses are dime a dozen! Roll with the punches you freak. quote:He has inflamed me with his disrespect for God.Yeah, you're inflamed all right. You're inflamin' insane. Go drink some alcohol and eat some pussy that hasn't been mutilated by Islamic female circumcision, and then maybe you'll have chilled out enough to have a real conversation with someone. quote:This is not just a sin. I do not judge on sin. The hell you don't judge sin you towel headed fuck! You obviously consider yourself the judge, juror and executioner of sins. Get a fucking dictionary, Genius. Shit! quote:Denial of God is an attack on my faith. That's just the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard. You are just a blood-thirsty jack-ass making up reasons to spill blood. quote:There is no person on this earth without sin.Yes, and I've heard the sky is blue, too. Take an hour or two to figure out what I mean by this reply. quote: In the end times there will be the righteous, the infidel, and the passive. Umm...if every person on earth has sin, then how can you call your group of Islamic militants the 'righteous'? quote:The righteous will fight for the preservation of God while the infidels will fight to destroy it, and the passive people who don't believe in fighting might as well be infidels, because they will not fight in the name of God to preserve His faith. God doesn't need to be 'preserved by man'. God, by His very nature could blow His nose and wipe out the entire Universe. He doesn't need a bunch of inbred, bloodthirsty towel heads to 'save his life' any more than He needs to kiss eBlips hairy ass. quote:So anyone that will not fight for God with his possessions, his wealth or his people is not a true believer. And I will NOT fall in that category. Ok, so you're a terrorist. Congratulations. I'm an American gun owner, and I'll blow your shit flat if you come to my house. quote: I am taught to defend God, not be passive and let people defame Him and criticize Him in my presence. So you've been taught to be a violent and ungracious social misfit with poor hygiene. quote: If anyone here professes belief in God, they would do they same and not let a person dishonor the Most High and the only One worthy of worship.Hey man. I believe in God, and my God is so big that He is not going to fall off HIS thrown because eBlip is behaving like a thirteen year old passive-agressive naughty Bible school drop out turned sissy-Buddhist pastry chef.

If you became a Christian you could have a big God too, Wings of Azrael. That big black rock in Mecca is nothing but a meteorite.

Sheesh.

DS

[This message has been edited by Dr. Spankinz (edited 09-04-2003).]

Mind your own business Doc. And guess what? I'm american...born and raised here. You surprise with me with your racist and bigoted attacks on me. That is extremely christian of you isn't it? You can call me towelhead all you want...I wear a palestinian kefiyah all the time. You can insult me as you wish because you are just proving you are of the ignorant nonbelievers. Even eBlip didn't try to hit a race card. You are a low human being.

Sorry, I just didn't suspect that most Americans made such poor choices in life. I mean, I know its bad out there, but I didn't know it was that bad. Guess I was wrong.

And hey, I'm not one of those hypocritical Funkamentalist Christians with no balls that think that they'll go to hell if they say 'hell' or 'damn'. So, umm...get used to it.

And this thread is as much my business as it is anyone's. You pretty much condemned everyone in your posts that doesn't believe the way you do, and even threatened violence. So I feel no shame in telling you that you're full of shit. And hey, you can tell me I'm full of shit right back.

Oh, about the race thing. Your word 'infidel' is just a code word for 'anyone who is not an islamic arab'. You ain't no motherfucking Martin Luther King.

Shit. I think I just wet myself.

DS

[This message has been edited by Dr. Spankinz (edited 09-04-2003).]

You are a racist plain and simple. Infidel doesn't equal everyone who isn't an islamic arab. Infidel is one who denies God and utters against Him falsehoods. Did I attack you for being Christian? No. He threatened violence against believers and I will defend myself and my beliefs until I no longer breathe. Infact, did I attack you for anything? No. I merely pointed out you were of a low moral value by attacking someone's ethnicity. Yes, you can think I am full of shit. That is your right. It is my right to know that you are full of shit. It is my duty. May God grant you tact and diplomacy.

Good job eBlip I think you achieved what you wanted. Hehe, they are gonna wipe themselves off the earth with another 'holy war' if this keeps happening. I love the way that people cant understand what another is saying.

I think the point was that, if your faith is true you should not fear death, nor fear the death of another for they will be waiting for you in the 'Kingdom most High', or buring in the internal fires of hell... So why cry? Cause you are human. This is how we deal with grief, becuase no one has 'pure' faith, you will always doubt, and it will nag at you. It isnt satan, its your common sense.

If your right, your right. If your wrong, your wrong. eBlip was actually using fact to attack you.. I congradulate him.

eBlip was saying if you really believe in God, jump off a cliff and be with Him immediately. Hey, maybe that works if you're a Muslim, but most Christians believe that killing yourself is a major sin.

eBlip is only on one side of any issue, and that is to try to make an ass out of the people who respond to his threads.

But big fat hairy deal, right? Right. eBlip ain't nothing but a chicken-wang-thang.

And speaking of chicken wings, Wings of Azrael, you ain't got a clue. You basically said that you'd slit all of our throats, and now you're playing like your so full of tact and respect for other people. Its fucking laughable.

Frankly, I don't really think you're a Muslim. I think you're some honky from the Homeland Security Department looking for bomb-making Arabs on the internet. Hey, good work. I hope you catch the bad guys soon.

DS

Firstly, I do not fear death. I am in the military and have been in a hairy situation or two. And what is this fact? The fact that he can't find enough proof of God to convince himself that He exists? The fact that I could not give you enough proof to prove to you He exists? You all are like the ancients of old. They say why hasn't a sign come to us, or why hasn't God sent down angel with a sign? Every messenger ever sent by God has always been met with resistance. Mankind don't deserve anymore messengers. If I produced some sort of miracle from God, you would call it magic or sorcery. Some people's hearts are sealed and will never open to the light of God. All praise to God.

Killing yourself isn't really a good way to paradise...as it will leave you way short. I never said anything about slitting your throat did I? Or did you just feel left out? And yes, I am muslim. And you can think what you want about whom I work for. Just wait until my enlistment is up...time for the CIA.

quote:Originally posted by Wings Of Azrael:

Firstly, I do not fear death. I am in the military and have been in a hairy situation or two. And what is this fact? The fact that he can't find enough proof of God to convince himself that He exists? The fact that I could not give you enough proof to prove to you He exists? You all are like the ancients of old. They say why hasn't a sign come to us, or why hasn't God sent down angel with a sign? Every messenger ever sent by God has always been met with resistance. Mankind don't deserve anymore messengers. If I produced some sort of miracle from God, you would call it magic or sorcery. Some people's hearts are sealed and will never open to the light of God. All praise to God.

oh ...i forgot to mention.....mohammed is the LAST PROPHET.......(AS STATED IN THE QUORAN)....HOW BLOODY CONVENIENT and manipulative ....so no one will ever be able to prove god exists......because the last prophet is now dead.......

and 2 billion people believe that crap.

its not that my heart is sealed....

its just that i have got common sense....

religion is a way to controll the masses of sheep out there.......

if you looked out on the street and there was a line of people .....you would probably join it.

Goddammit, this shit is just pathetic, eBlip. You alway strut around this forum and demand people live in spiritual peace, and then you come on and tell Christians to drop dead. Your nothing but a goddamn hypocrite, and one that needs to read a book, at that.

quote:Originally posted by Wings Of Azrael:

If that is the case, I would slit your throat, infidel. You mock God at your every chance, and God will not grant you respite forever. Your time WILL come. I could only wish to spend all of eternity with God. That is the goal of any true believer. To be near Him in the paradise he created would be the best and most majestic of endings. You are an enemy of God. And an enemy of faith. And people such as you deserve the wrath and emnity of God. Ego? The man with the biggest ego is the one who thinks he is in control of his own destiny. He is not only egocentric, but destined to a severe chastisment by the Most High. You should be executed. Then the world would be a better place.



slit my throat? slit my throat .....thou shalt NOT KILL.....

oh sorry ......in the koran it is ok to kill..jeehad or some bullshit like that....

let me tell you....i believe all killing is wrong ......and that does not come from any bible or any koran or any god ......it comes from my heart......

so in reality this mere unbeliever obeys the scriptures more than you so called believers...just by being true to my own being.

burn your bibles and burn your korans and be true to your own being....only then will the world be a better place.....

plus the heat generated from all the burning could be used to generate free electricity for the poor..

tear down your mosques and churches and make homes for the homeless.

stop obeying and listening attentitively to priests and vicars.....who tell you how thins are and how to live and then go and perform soddomy on each other, little boys and girls ...once the door is closed.....

stop giving your money to muslim priests who for some reason end up living in expensive houses, running about 6 busineses.

smell the coffee..

religion is probably the most evil thing on the planet....wake up and see the real light.

and how can i be the enemy of god, an enemy of something that doesnt exist.....its like saying im the enemy of spiderman.......only in this case .....the invisible man would be more apt.

i dont necessarily think i am in control of my own destiny.....you just assume that ....and that assumption is far from the truth ...you should just ask me ....who is in controll of your destiny eblip.......and i would answer truthfully .......that i dont know .......that i would have to understand the meaning of my own existance first before

answering such a big question.......but i would also say....i know enough to know it isnt a god of any form.....

i should be executed you say.....i personally send you my love.....love from one human to another....i just wish you wernt so ignorant of the reality you live in...i wish you didnt base your life on blind faith and that you would understand that it is just the blind leading the blind....

im giving you a way out of the ridiculous life that you pretend to lead....

quote:Originally posted by Armed&Angry:

Goddammit, this shit is just pathetic, eBlip. You alway strut around this forum and demand people live in spiritual peace, and then you come on and tell Christians to drop dead. Your nothing but a goddamn hypocrite, and one that needs to read a book, at that.

i dont need books ....i would rather experience for myself...the truth is out there skully..

i am your friend...........

I don't see why people get so offensive. I beleive in God and Eblip doesnt. That's that. Now death is a skethy subject. I have no fear of death. If there is nothing after death (which I do not beleive) then there is nothin after death simply put. I do not spend all my time pondering this because there is nothin that can change the facts that are only learned when death is achieved.

quote:Originally posted by Nikali4389:

I don't see why people get so offensive. I beleive in God and Eblip doesnt. That's that. Now death is a skethy subject. I have no fear of death. If there is nothing after death (which I do not beleive) then there is nothin after death simply put. I do not spend all my time pondering this because there is nothin that can change the facts that are only learned when death is achieved.



you have a blinkered approach to death....i believe that if you fully understand lfe.....you own existance......then that will give you all the answers about death......

for example ....you may in the process of learning about yourself ....realise that there is not and has never ever been anything there that you can call a self.....and that your thoughts of you being a changing individual with a permanent fixed self that experiences all that you do in life.....is completely and utterly wrong..if you saw that in reality .....the you that you think you are doesnt exist at all and was just a figment of a clouded imagination......then surely this would give a whole new meaning to death......

death of who....death of what....who is there to die.

if you realised the above then you would realise that there is noone there in the first place to die....

then you can ponder that if there is noone there to die...what the hell is really there....then you are on the path of eventually seeing reality...in its true form

if you want to know more of these things ...or if they have confused you ...i will write another thread about the journey into reality...the real truth

quote:Originally posted by eBlip:

i dont need books ....i would rather experience for myself...the truth is out there skully..

i am your friend...........

Oh my God, were your raised in a nuclear reactor? Never before have I seen someone mix ignorance with arrogance and show such glee for the vile brew. Here's a wacky idea - maybe, just maybe, there's some stuff out there that you don't know. And rather than actually look into these matters with research and study, you'd prefer to just hypothesize blindly. Well, have fun being a dumbass.

[This message has been edited by Armed&Angry (edited 09-04-2003).]

My opinion about life is that everything serves a purpose in the nature of the universe. Whether it be divine or not. I understand as my religion states (without bashing your opinion) there is life after death. But may it so be if my relgion is false and there is nothing after death I accept that. I believe in God and I believe there is life after death. But come time for myself to die and and like everyone I will die and find the truth. If the truth is that there is just nothing after death I'm not going to reject that. I expect as my belief in my religion for there to be a heaven and hell (my beliefs on heaven and hell are a little different then the bibles teachings about them). Like I said though if there is nothing there is nothing. I do not ponder I just accept the truth that is givin to me at the right time which just happens to be death. I understand the importance of my life and what i must do in this life. The only real truth for all humans will only come at death and with death comes understanding. But however I would like to hear your opinion and no I will not bash anyone on here for their beliefs.

quote:Originally posted by Armed&Angry:

Oh my God, were your raised in a nuclear reactor? Never before have I seen someone mix ignorance with arrogance and show such glee for the vile brew. Here's a wacky idea - maybe, just maybe, there's some stuff out there that you don't know. And rather than actually look into these matters with research and study, you'd prefer to just hypothesize blindly. Well, have fun being a dumbass.

[This message has been edited by Armed&Angry (edited 09-04-2003).]

if you knew just a tiny bit about reality...if you witnessed it for yourself .... then you would know how profound and powerful my statements are...and that they are revelations........

revelations concerning the truth skully.....

you would be blown over and amazed and i would be your guru...

the stuff you have been searching for all your life is what i speak of....the search is over....

but you are not ready yet......

by the way ...

theres mountains of stuff out there that i dont know......billions of bits of information......i file all this stuff into a category...that category is called....

stuff that aint worth knowing.



[This message has been edited by eBlip (edited 09-04-2003).]

.....

NOW NOW NOW, eblip it absolutely right, in fact his idea should be applied to very thing.

SEX- why enjoy it and take yourtime, enjoying a night with your lover, just cum at the start of the evening,thats the end result anyhow and the best part.

Out doors- Dont climb mountains, take a helicopter, thats where your going any how

Skiing- stay at the bottom, thats where you are headed any how,the bottom.

Cooking- eat at Mc Donalds, the point is just to stuff your face any how

Going out with friends, just stay home, lick your rug and hit your head against the wall, thats where you are headed for tomarrow morning any how, headache and a fuzzy tongue.

Dating, dont... you'll just get married and your partner will either die before you, you will get divorced, or you will die before them, so just stay alone.. same results.

Children, dont have them... your alone, you have kids, they grow up your alone, skip the journey and just stay alone

Vacation, we all know how glad we are to be home after vacation, so just stay home.. same result..

Or am I missing the point that it's getting some where that makes it worth getting to, that the end is not point, its the journey there?

or are we all missing the point that eblip is a bloody idiot?

Eblip, do us all a favor go to visit the Darwin Awards and please find out how to become a member.

quote:Originally posted by jester461:

NOW NOW NOW, eblip it absolutely right, in fact his idea should be applied to very thing.

SEX- why enjoy it and take yourtime, enjoying a night with your lover, just cum at the start of the evening,thats the end result anyhow and the best part.

Out doors- Dont climb mountains, take a helicopter, thats where your going any how

Skiing- stay at the bottom, thats where you are headed any how,the bottom.

Cooking- eat at Mc Donalds, the point is just to stuff your face any how

Going out with friends, just stay home, lick your rug and hit your head against the wall, thats where you are headed for tomarrow morning any how, headache and a fuzzy tongue.

Dating, dont... you'll just get married and your partner will either die before you, you will get divorced, or you will die before them, so just stay alone.. same results.

Children, dont have them... your alone, you have kids, they grow up your alone, skip the journey and just stay alone

Vacation, we all know how glad we are to be home after vacation, so just stay home.. same result..

Or am I missing the point that it's getting some where that makes it worth getting to, that the end is not point, its the journey there?

or are we all missing the point that eblip is a bloody idiot?

Eblip, do us all a favor go to visit the Darwin Awards and please find out how to become a member.

you too are not ready.......

I'll send you to see God if you don't stop ending your fucking sentences with about 6 full stops.

quote:Originally posted by Aphelion Corona:

I'll send you to see God if you don't stop ending your fucking sentences with about 6 full stops.

oh.....................

eBlip:

oh ...i forgot to mention.....mohammed is the LAST PROPHET.......(AS STATED IN THE QUORAN)....HOW BLOODY CONVENIENT and manipulative ....so no one will ever be able to prove god exists......because the last prophet is now dead.......

Yes, the time of Prophethood has passed. It died with the seal of the Prophets, Prophet Muhammad(pbuh). A Messenger doesn't have to be a prophet. Muslims are still expecting the Mahdi. Kikey can correct me if I am wrong, but I think the Jews are still waiting on their Messiah, since they didn't accept Jesus(pbuh). Just because the Prophethood has ended doesn't mean God can't send messengers.

eBlip:

and 2 billion people believe that crap.

Your tact on other's faith is astounding. I never attacked your faith, I attacked you attacking my faith and blaspheming God.

eBlip:

its not that my heart is sealed....

its just that i have got common sense....

religion is a way to controll the masses of sheep out there.......

I live a good life with my religion. I can still do all the things I wanna do. Pork and Alcohol are not really big things for me. Sheep are the people that are holed up doing research trying to find scientific explanations for everything in the universe.

eBlip:

if you looked out on the street and there was a line of people .....you would probably join it.

Only if it was a line of believers going to defend the faith. However I'm sure in the line you would follow someone would exclaim, 'dude, where is the pot?'

eBlip:

slit my throat? slit my throat .....thou shalt NOT KILL.....

oh sorry ......in the koran it is ok to kill..jeehad or some bullshit like that....

View it however you like. Some people don't deserve life. God also says follow the laws of the land. Heresy is punishable by death. You are heretical.

eBlip:

let me tell you....i believe all killing is wrong ......and that does not come from any bible or any koran or any god ......it comes from my heart......

All things right comes from God.

eBlip:

so in reality this mere unbeliever obeys the scriptures more than you so called believers...just by being true to my own being.

You can't obey scriptures of the Almighty if you don't believe in Him. I AM THE LORD THY GOD AND THOU SHALT NOT HAVE ANY OTHER GODS BEFORE ME. Probably the most important commandment there, hence it being the first. THERE IS NO GOD BUT GOD. Part of the Muslim declaration of faith.

eBlip:

burn your bibles and burn your korans and be true to your own being....only then will the world be a better place.....

plus the heat generated from all the burning could be used to generate free electricity for the poor..

tear down your mosques and churches and make homes for the homeless.

stop obeying and listening attentitively to priests and vicars.....who tell you how thins are and how to live and then go and perform soddomy on each other, little boys and girls ...once the door is closed.....

stop giving your money to muslim priests who for some reason end up living in expensive houses, running about 6 busineses.

It would be stupid to burn the Bible and the Holy Quran. Then there would be no documentation of the history of God and no moral code for people to live by, as we are animalistic by nature. Most devoutly religious Jews, Christians, and Muslims frequently give to the poor and needy as it is prescribed by God to be charitable. Most people that are of unbelief frequently take from whomever they can and could care less about the poor. The events you are speaking of, are restricted to that of the heretical Catholics who pray to Mary as 'mother of God'. Blasphemers. Muslims don't have preists, that have clerics. Imams, Mullahs, Ayatollahs, Sheiks, etc. Muslim clerics are devout and not corrupted.

eBlip:

smell the coffee..

religion is probably the most evil thing on the planet....wake up and see the real light.

Lack of religion is probably the most evil thing on the planet. Without knowledge of religion people (except those of true understanding) would forget God, and would have no ethics or morals to live by. You can deny that all you want, but if there were no religions, there would be no morals because religion is where they came from. I see the light every day when I wake up, the sun, as provided by God for light and nourishment of the earth.

eBlip:

and how can i be the enemy of god, an enemy of something that doesnt exist.....its like saying im the enemy of spiderman.......only in this case .....the invisible man would be more apt.

It is your own misguided belief that He doesn't exist. He does exist, and you are His enemy and the enemy of the believers.

eBlip:

i dont necessarily think i am in control of my own destiny.....you just assume that ....and that assumption is far from the truth ...you should just ask me ....who is in controll of your destiny eblip.......and i would answer truthfully .......that i dont know .......that i would have to understand the meaning of my own existance first before

answering such a big question.......but i would also say....i know enough to know it isnt a god of any form.....

God is in control of everyone's destiny and to Him we will all return. You sound like the people of old.

eBlip:

i should be executed you say.....i personally send you my love.....love from one human to another....i just wish you wernt so ignorant of the reality you live in...i wish you didnt base your life on blind faith and that you would understand that it is just the blind leading the blind....

And I personally hope you will find that this reality that you think you live in, is perpetuated by God. He created all. Blind are those who have no faith and believe themselves to be above God, which you apparently do as you do not believe in His existence. Your existence shall be fruitionless. May God visit the iniquity upon the third and fourth generations of those who hate Him.

eBlip:

im giving you a way out of the ridiculous life that you pretend to lead....

The ridiculous life is the one by someone who pretends he is in control of himself and shall have no one to answer to. That does anything to please himself no matter the cost. That blocks others from the true path by trying everything possible to convince them of the nonexistence of God and himself as well. It is truly sad. May Allah do what is best with you.

Yes, the time of Prophethood has passed. It died with the seal of the Prophets, Prophet Muhammad(pbuh). A Messenger doesn't have to be a prophet. Muslims are still expecting the Mahdi. Kikey can correct me if I am wrong, but I think the Jews are still waiting on their Messiah, since they didn't accept Jesus(pbuh). Just because the Prophethood has ended doesn't mean God can't send messengers.

azrael: oh i see....they are messengers now not prophets....now that explains everything...

becuase now god is sending messengers not prophets.....oh i see.......



Your tact on other's faith is astounding. I never attacked your faith, I attacked you attacking my faith and blaspheming God.

faith is based on blindness....i am the light ...be rid of your faith and see for yourself....then you will understand that i blaspheme nothing.....because god doesnt exist...



I live a good life with my religion. I can still do all the things I wanna do. Pork and Alcohol are not really big things for me. Sheep are the people that are holed up doing research trying to find scientific explanations for everything in the universe.

azrael : you are a sheep .....following what others tell you .....if you were born into a christian family..i have no doubt you would be a christian......its time you thought for yourself and rid yourself of all this social conditioning and brainwashing... anyone who is not on the path of truth is a sheep ...and you are on the wrong track mate....now what does that make you?

Only if it was a line of believers going to defend the faith. However I'm sure in the line you would follow someone would exclaim, 'dude, where is the pot?'

i rest my case you would join the line....for i would never join any line .....i am a refuge to myself...

View it however you like. Some people don't deserve life. God also says follow the laws of the land. Heresy is punishable by death. You are heretical.

azrael: oh again now i see.......god gives life to people who dont deserve it.....now your making sense...

but to me no crime is punishable by death....even if a man tried to kill me ...i would accept it willingly and be grateful for that would be karma paid for terrible horrendous things i have done in previous lives...i would also have love for my killer...because i know the truth

All things right comes from God.

azrael: oh dear azrael...i do a lot of right and it has nothing to do with invisible god...it is all to do with karma

You can't obey scriptures of the Almighty if you don't believe in Him. I AM THE LORD THY GOD AND THOU SHALT NOT HAVE ANY OTHER GODS BEFORE ME. Probably the most important commandment there, hence it being the first. THERE IS NO GOD BUT GOD. Part of the Muslim declaration of faith.

its also a very good manipulative commandment...it keeps the sheep in line...

and when i said i obey the scriptures maybe i should have said .....my personal morals are in line with a lot of scriptures although my heart is my only guide ....but as for killing in the quoran ....i would burn the book or possibly use it for toilet paper......for i know killing is wrong under any circumstance.

It would be stupid to burn the Bible and the Holy Quran. Then there would be no documentation of the history of God and no moral code for people to live by, as we are animalistic by nature. Most devoutly religious Jews, Christians, and Muslims frequently give to the poor and needy as it is prescribed by God to be charitable. Most people that are of unbelief frequently take from whomever they can and could care less about the poor. The events you are speaking of, are restricted to that of the heretical Catholics who pray to Mary as 'mother of God'. Blasphemers. Muslims don't have preists, that have clerics. Imams, Mullahs, Ayatollahs, Sheiks, etc. Muslim clerics are devout and not corrupted.



azrael : it would not be stupid to burn the quoran and the bibles .....it would release a lot of people from the bonds of untrue manipulative religion.

we are not animalistic by nature ....we are compassionate by nature and you would know that if you ever looked within and found your true nature......

i know you think that muslims and christians give......and they may give to charity ....but the way they give is not true charity......

true charity is if you have one million in your bank account is to give it all away....and leave yourself with nothing and never to tell of your giving.....true charity is to cut your life down to raw basics and to live off needs rather than wants ..drink only water ...nothing fancy dress in one or two sets of clothes and live in a house with minimum rooms and minimum heating and to give anything extra away to people who need it....etc...

anything less is just making your own selfish conscience feel eased.

muslim clerics are blind and have been led by the blind ....and who are they to preach ....stop looking up to others azrael and start acting from your own accord....

Lack of religion is probably the most evil thing on the planet. Without knowledge of religion people (except those of true understanding) would forget God, and would have no ethics or morals to live by. You can deny that all you want, but if there were no religions, there would be no morals because religion is where they came from. I see the light every day when I wake up, the sun, as provided by God for light and nourishment of the earth.



azrael .....i have been trying to tell you forgett god.....and look within..you will find you are innately rich in wisdom and heart....this is human nature ......

and forget about what you see every day....you dont know what you see every day....you must first know yourself and then you will see things differently....

It is your own misguided belief that He doesn't exist. He does exist, and you are His enemy and the enemy of the believers.

if you knew ...and i say knew..not believed ....if you knew what i know ...you would realise and see for yourself that there is no god there to be his enemy....

i am being very serious here.....im not taking the piss out of you.....i know what you think ...as i went through a similar situation......but you must first look and then you will start to understand and be able to say point blank that there isnt a god.......in an ideal world ...oh yes there wold be god and heaven and all those things...seriously.......but the world is not as it seems.....you should try and see this for yourself

God is in control of everyone's destiny and to Him we will all return. You sound like the people of old.

god is in controll of nothing ...there is no god ....like i said you must see for yourself to understand......and when you have seen what reality really is ......you will realise how ignorant and wrong your statement really was.....



And I personally hope you will find that this reality that you think you live in, is perpetuated by God. He created all. Blind are those who have no faith and believe themselves to be above God, which you apparently do as you do not believe in His existence. Your existence shall be fruitionless. May God visit the iniquity upon the third and fourth generations of those who hate Him.

if you see for yourself.....you will see the manipulation in all the religioius things you have just quoted that have been quoted to you ........i really would love for you to see the truth....for your faith would turn in to practice and your practice would lead to results......tangible results that will spurn you to practice even more....

The ridiculous life is the one by someone who pretends he is in control of himself and shall have no one to answer to. That does anything to please himself no matter the cost. That blocks others from the true path by trying everything possible to convince them of the nonexistence of God and himself as well. It is truly sad. May Allah do what is best with you.

youll find that allah will do nothing for me ....life is suffering ....even happiness is only temporary .....all you see is temporary and transient ...... the truth is permanent and can be experienced by you in this life time....

again i send you my love ....

Firstly, you are a hopeless infidel who think you know it all, but you know nothing of it. And you never will because you are not God. Your blasphemy would provoke violence wherever you went and soon you would see what God is all about. I was born into a family that Christian. Formerly a southern baptist, right here. So don't tell me what I would believe if I was this or that, because I would believe in God regardless. And if you don't know, I am american. I found the Holy Quran to be true to my maker and hence my conversion. It was by my own will and ultimately God's will that I converted. People are born in submission to God(as Muslims), its Jews and Christians and others who change their beliefs. I won't send you my love. You are an evil atheist idol worshipping person. Allah commands the destruction of idolatry. If you were peaceful you would be fine as far as your well being around believers. But you seek emnity and want to blasphem therefore you would have a most grevious chastisement. Look inside myself you say? I have, and etched in my heart is the will of God. And I trust that He will guide me in any and everything I do. Allah is the best of guiders. So go seek your peace in the abyss of yourself because it will never be found there. And that is why you cry out against God and believers, because you are jealous and seek God, but you can not find him because you don't truly believe. And to you, is a meaningless empty existence. Tell your statue I said Hi.

quote:Originally posted by Wings Of Azrael:

Firstly, you are a hopeless infidel who think you know it all, but you know nothing of it. And you never will because you are not God. Your blasphemy would provoke violence wherever you went and soon you would see what God is all about. I was born into a family that Christian. Formerly a southern baptist, right here. So don't tell me what I would believe if I was this or that, because I would believe in God regardless. And if you don't know, I am american. I found the Holy Quran to be true to my maker and hence my conversion. It was by my own will and ultimately God's will that I converted. People are born in submission to God(as Muslims), its Jews and Christians and others who change their beliefs. I won't send you my love. You are an evil atheist idol worshipping person. Allah commands the destruction of idolatry. If you were peaceful you would be fine as far as your well being around believers. But you seek emnity and want to blasphem therefore you would have a most grevious chastisement. Look inside myself you say? I have, and etched in my heart is the will of God. And I trust that He will guide me in any and everything I do. Allah is the best of guiders. So go seek your peace in the abyss of yourself because it will never be found there. And that is why you cry out against God and believers, because you are jealous and seek God, but you can not find him because you don't truly believe. And to you, is a meaningless empty existence. Tell your statue I said Hi.

i havent got a statue......but i like them...

i dont worship anything never mind idols ...

you are funny....

by the way ....you have not found god ......llike you say you believe in him....if you had found him it would no longer be a case of belief....you would know......but you dont so you have not found him....and never will...even after death...

what a beautiful life you waste....

you always talk of violence.....because you have not seen that your true nature is love and compassion......

i love you even more now .....for you are ignorant and lost and know not what you say.

it so obvious to me that you are seeking something else....that your religion does not satisfy your ....soul as you would say...

you are searching for answers ....and i have given you the aswers you need.....your appology is accepted.

throw away your quran and let the brainwashing stop... i think this will be a good effective way to shed your old skin and start afresh as a buddhist......or you may chose any other method of your choice..

say goodbye to your big ego....forget mohammed and ........

welcome brother you are one of us now...

i love you so much....hugs and compassion are sent out to you from my heart....the buddah nature is yours for the taking



[This message has been edited by eBlip (edited 09-05-2003).]

Hey, eBlip, have you ever posted at LIA under the name "nihilistic?" Just a thought.

OH, so everything you don't know isn't worth knowing? When others take this attitude with your pseudo-mystic drivel, they're a blind lamb, but you, eBlip, know everything relevant and will lead us to the Promised land.'

You're just another unthinking hack who can't back up his bullshit with reason.

If you people weren't so dense, you would realize the one supreme truth as told by the grand intellectual one that knows infinitely more than a mortal mind: "Stewie", who has been immortalized in digital media and frequently played in a television seris called "Family Guy".

That truth being, the only reason we die, is because we accept it as an inevitability.

[This message has been edited by Dark_Magneto (edited 09-05-2003).]

quote:Originally posted by Armed&Angry:

Hey, eBlip, have you ever posted at LIA under the name "nihilistic?" Just a thought.

OH, so everything you don't know isn't worth knowing? When others take this attitude with your pseudo-mystic drivel, they're a blind lamb, but you, eBlip, know everything relevant and will lead us to the Promised land.'

You're just another unthinking hack who can't back up his bullshit with reason.



armed and angry ....i can back up every word i say for i have personal experiences of reality....

i can not let you experience my personal experiences all i can do is show you how to get there and then you will experience them for yourself and then you will understand...

a starting point would be for you to sit on the floor preferably cross legged and back straight and to relax......

do not controll your breathing in any way....let it be as it is...but make sure you are relaxed....

you will know you are relaxed when your stomach starts moving in and out as you breathe.

rest your open right hand on your left hand ..... and continue breathing......in and out...

now what we are going to do is to take away all ideas of past or future and let you experience the present moment only......

to do this we concentrate for starters on your breathing.....

so as you breath in notice your stomach rising and as you breath out notice your stomach falling....

rising falling....rising falling....

now at first you may feel pain in your knees...

aknowledge this like say to yourself...this is feeling i am experiencing ....and let it go....and come back to your breathing ....rising falling rising falling ...

you may hear a car outside or a door shut...

acknowledge it ....say to yourself this is hearing this is hearing and let it go .....

you may get an itch .....this is feeling this is felling and let it go....

rising falling ...rising falling....

you are starting to notice things that happen around you all the time....but now you do not grasp these things...these things take you away from the everlasting present......

then you are thinking rising falling as it happens with your breath....you are not trying to breathe deep or slow ....just breathe as it happens...do not control the moment.....

then you will notice more subtle things like....thoughts and feelings as you breathe...acknowledge these as this is a thought ...and let it go........do not clasp it.....then you may feel impatient...saying to yourself im bored where is this getting me ......acknowledge this as just another type of thought ......and let it go...

you will may feel angry about something you read or the way someone treated you.....acknowledge this and let it go.....

it is very hard to do .....but eventually and this may take a couple of years......you will get a short period of time...in which you were totally mindfull of the rising and falling of your breath ......at this time you did not grasp sound smell pain thoughts ...it will at first be a very short period of time .....but it will be pure and absolutely wonderful.......

when this happens you will have the thought and understanding that although you go through the ups and downs in life ....you are always really at peace..thid you will KNOW FOR A FACT....true bliss ..even in the most horrendous circumstances and you will see for a fact that the only reason that you do go up and down in life is because you cling to phenomena and then make that phenomena into something it isnt....

you will realise that ALL of your waking life is spent warping the truth..

then you are ready to look deeper and experience reality more often .....then you will realise that up until that point your life was spent clinging to everything and making the real into the unreal.......

you will stop looking to books for answers and as a matter of urgency you will make time to dive into yourself deeper and deeper and learn the nature of everything...........

there are many more things to do ....but this is just the tip of the iceberg.....

when you get deeper...you start to understand things ...you see these things for yourself ......things thatsound ridiculous to someone who has not delved ....but you see things like when you look at something..............

there is no seer and visual object ...there is only seeing.....

no seer no object to be seen ....just seeing......this you will realise if you delve even deeper using some other simple techniques..

when you see for a fact that this is true....it puts a whole new perspective on who you really are.........and who god is .....seriously.......

its not from a book ...its not from brainwashing.....it is directly experienced for yourself......

and in the process your ego you will realise is just a mental object.......

you may say ...what proof have you......and i will say i know this 100 percent for i have seen it all with my own eyes ...so to speak......

its brilliant......its unbelievable......and then you will want to save your family and your friends and anyone you meet .....because it is not a matter of faith ........its a matter of knowledge........

and people will throw the scriptures at you and blind you with science.....but you know for a fact that they are wrong ......you also feel love for them because you have seen for yourself that they are on the wrong track....

they have their books as proof and maybe a million pounds and 30 staff backing them up ....but they havent seen what you have ....so you never lose your temper.....

only in folly.......

i still lapse into normal behaviour throughout the day...when i go to work and when i deal with friends......but when they watch tv at night ......i either spread the knowledge or meditate.....

its the only thing worth wile in life......

you can still have a family and children and buy things ....but my journey to the truth will never end ........and i know i am on the right path........muslims christians and non believers are never quite sure.....

for me i have seen ........and the search is definitely 100 percent over.......

i know it sound s arrogant ...and i appologise for that .......but noone on the face of this earth can say im wrong ...because i know with all my being i am right......

and i really do love everyone....even those i insult in jest.....

i will pay a price for that though

eBlip:

i havent got a statue......but i like them...

i dont worship anything never mind idols ...

You are still infidel. You deny God, God will deny you a woeful day.

eBlip:

you are funny....

I am funny. I actually do have a good sense of humor, but you will never see it. And you will see how funny things really are when you utter this horseshit in the presence of a believer.

eBlip:

by the way ....you have not found god ......llike you say you believe in him....if you had found him it would no longer be a case of belief....you would know......but you dont so you have not found him....and never will...even after death...

Belief in God is finding Him. I know there is a God, all I have to do is look outside. And I am not gonna say that I am going to heaven, that would be vain. But I know God is Most Merciful to His creation.

eBlip:

what a beautiful life you waste....

I agree, what a beautiful life you waste.

eBlip:

you always talk of violence.....because you have not seen that your true nature is love and compassion......

I have much love and compassion for believers and even unbelievers who just don't know any better or who don't provoke emnity. You seek emnity and hatred and provoke violence, therefore I have nothing but contempt for you.

eBlip:

i love you even more now .....for you are ignorant and lost and know not what you say.

You don't love me, you love provoking me. I am nowhere near lost, you are however beyond redemption. Fear the words that come from your mouth as they will be replayed for you on a day when no one will intercede for you and there will be no one to help you. And on that day each soul will taste the sum of their deeds.

eBlip:

it so obvious to me that you are seeking something else....that your religion does not satisfy your ....soul as you would say...

Yes, I am seeking to end outright blasphemy of God in my presence. My religion completely satisfies my soul, and how the hell would you know anything about the soul? The soul is Allah's and to Him it will eventually return.

eBlip:

you are searching for answers ....and i have given you the aswers you need.....your appology is accepted.

I know the answers, you just don't know the question. I would never apologize to infidel blasphemer, so dream on.

eBlip:

throw away your quran and let the brainwashing stop... i think this will be a good effective way to shed your old skin and start afresh as a buddhist......or you may chose any other method of your choice..

How about I smite you and throw you away, and let your attempt at brainwashing everyone else on this board stop? I will then light a wooden buddha statue on fire near you and slice it to pieces and fall upon my face and pray to Allah for the destruction of all those who blasphem Him.

eBlip:

say goodbye to your big ego....forget mohammed and ........

welcome brother you are one of us now...

i love you so much....hugs and compassion are sent out to you from my heart....the buddah nature is yours for the taking

Of of all those with ego, you take the cake. I will never forget the Prophet(pbuh) and you won't either. I will never be one of you, and you will never be a believer. Keep your hugs and compassion, save it for the other infidels. Buddha will be smited on the Day Of Judgement.

quote:Originally posted by eBlip:



i just want you christians to understand that if you were true christians then death should be rejoiced at and looked forward to...

you may be leaving you family....but its only for a few years and then you can all spend an eternity together in heaven.......

basically i dont really think that many christians really believe...im trying to make them admit to themselves that they dont . and then they can spend their lives more productively and be truthful to themselves.........

i think this is a worthy cause.



Yes I'd say you have a good point. I don't like the way you go about making your point (attacking people) but you do have a good point. If as Christians we truely believe in heaven we should be happy for those who having lived in Christ die. I remember when my grandperents died. They were true Christians and while it hurt that they were gone I was also happy because they were with Christ. I look forward to that day, I am not afraid of death. If my wife died I would miss her and be sad that she is not by my side anymore but I would also be happy that she is with Christ. In fact its my total faith in this that would allow me to go on with life instead of just killin myself or something. So yes I totaly believe in what the bible says and I do my very best to live accordingly. Your point is good that there are many many Christians who do not live what they say they believe but don't hate me cuz some people fool themselfs into thinking they are Christians. The whole loss of a life is a paradox. We all want to go and be with Christ but yet we want to live so as to do as much good to others as possable. As Paul said "to live is Christ and to die is gain" either way is fine with me. If this offends you that is ok with me, I'm not attacking you and not forcing you to believe what I do. I'm simply telling the truth and it is up to everyone how they respond......

also to other Christians on this thread... Please don't fight back with name calling or something like that (someone called him dumbass) That just lowers us to thier level. Don't return insult for insult instead show kindness and love, tell the truth but don't insult. Jesus doesn't teach us to insult or hurt others. When we use name calling we just give them more reason to dislike us.

quote:Originally posted by Wings Of Azrael:

Killing yourself isn't really a good way to paradise...as it will leave you way short. I never said anything about slitting your throat did I? Or did you just feel left out? And yes, I am muslim. And you can think what you want about whom I work for. Just wait until my enlistment is up...time for the CIA.

I have news for you man...if they get one whiff of this thread...and they WILL...you will not stand a snowballs chance on the sun of getting in due to your proclivity towards and allegiance to radical relgious groups currently opposed to the United States Government, namely Shi'ite Muslims, and your obvious proclivity to be incited to random violent outbursts by percieved "attacks" on your God, and spring to his defense as if he were the bubble boy in a shooting range...

I hope you didn't have your heart too terribly set on working for any branch of the government related to security, intelligence, anti-terrorism, foreign policy, or federal or international law...

Congratulations, you lose.

As a side note...

I honestly don't believe eBlip is doing all of this just to provoke militant religious fanatics like Azrael into a fight...I think he is really trying to share what he has found to be truth. His faith, his knowledge...By your violent outbursts in "defense" of your own relgion, you illustrate quite well one of the largest evils of religion in the world...the divisiveness of convictions and faith...the hatred and havoc it brings so long as it persists and even ONE person sees through it's lies...

eBlip's not trying to piss you off, he's trying to help you.

I, on the other hand, could give a shit less about you and find your actions in the name of your faith infantile, ignorant, closed-minded, arrogant, and disgusting. I have no problem with the muslim faith, I have a problem with muslims who act as you do...Just as I have no problem with the Christian or Jewish faith, but I do have problems with Christians or Jews who act a certain way (read ignorant militant fanatics).

If I'm pissing you off, I'm glad. If I'm inflaming your self-righteous indignation, again, I am glad.

You said yourself that messengers from god are often ill-received, and that prophets are a thing of the past because of it...How will you know a messenger when they speak to you?...How did any of the religious fanatics of any prophet or messenger's time know a messenger/prophet?...they didn't..their hearts and minds were closed to the message because they were mired in the traditions of man that were built on the original pure message, and were corrupted by the fallability of man...and left to wallow in a static mire or no longer relevent practices which no longer had the true meaning of their creation...and the religion itself became the god rather than the divine spirit that inspired it and which lives in all things and all men...by looking without, they forgot to look within to the divine spark of light that god gave them upon their birth..that piece of god...creating us in his own image...by ignoring that spark, we sink further into the mire of religion and fail to find spiritual purity and oneness with God....

All the fanatics of the time gave rather poor welcomes to prophets, even most times in the face of miracles even...and messengers were treated even worse...

Now...all the anger and indignation aside for a moment....if necessary to clear your mind of those clouding convictions and passions, take my apology, sincere and heartfelt, and forgive me for my harsh words, if they were indeed harsh. I have something I would like to say to you that I would ask you to read with an open heart...a message from God through a simple flesh and blood man who has at times been close enough to him to know his peace, and at other times been far enough away from him to have a taste of hell....the message is this:

There is not God but God, and he is in all things and all things are in him. We are all vessels of the divine gift of being loved by god and being one with him. Yet we must know ourselves to know him, for he is in us, and to deny ourselves is to deny him. To deny God is heresy, as any believer can agree...so why would you desire to do so?

As all men, I am fallable in flesh and word, as is eBlip, as are you...but the message that motivates the words we try to convey is divine...and the words are limited and can never properly express a message of the magnitude of divinity, for the language itself is fallable by the nature of being of the flesh. Learn to love yourself, learn to love your neighbor, learn to love all things, only then will you find God...only then will you be able to be with God for all time...all else leads to isolation, fear, pain, hatred, jealousy, violence, insecurity, and fanaticism of the sort you have been demonstrating is often the byproduct of such feelings. It is always easier to smash that which we doubt and fear than to face it, understand it, and become stronger than it in such a way that we can see God's will in it and how it served him....

Yes, I am aware that this post is basically contradictory, but that's part of the point...We'll see if the subtle message conveyed by the contradiction is conveyed.

-=CW=-

I am in the army now. And in intelligence. 97B. Counterintelligence agent. Uncle in the CIA already. It's a lock. Lots more muslims in the CIA than you think.



ChaosWyrm:

I honestly don't believe eBlip is doing all of this just to provoke militant religious fanatics like Azrael into a fight...I think he is really trying to share what he has found to be truth. His faith, his knowledge...By your violent outbursts in "defense" of your own relgion, you illustrate quite well one of the largest evils of religion in the world...the divisiveness of convictions and faith...the hatred and havoc it brings so long as it persists and even ONE person sees through it's lies...

Are you attacking my religion by calling it lies?

ChaosWyrm:

eBlip's not trying to piss you off, he's trying to help you.

Oh really? I guess I somehow missed that in him attacking my faith and claiming that which he has no knowledge of.

ChaosWyrm:

I, on the other hand, could give a shit less about you and find your actions in the name of your faith infantile, ignorant, closed-minded, arrogant, and disgusting.

It is called being devout and a defender of my faith and of God. And you obviously aren't too far from eBlip's raft, so you can paddle on over to him and get in touch with your buddha nature and carve images and debate the merits of your inner self.

chaoswyrm:

I have no problem with the muslim faith, I have a problem with muslims who act as you do...Just as I have no problem with the Christian or Jewish faith, but I do have problems with Christians or Jews who act a certain way (read ignorant militant fanatics).

Have no problem with the Muslim faith? Well it appears not as long as they are passive and not willing to stand up for what the believe.

chaoswyrm:

If I'm pissing you off, I'm glad. If I'm inflaming your self-righteous indignation, again, I am glad.

You are not pissing me off. Are you trying to?

Chaoswyrm:

You said yourself that messengers from god are often ill-received, and that prophets are a thing of the past because of it...How will you know a messenger when they speak to you?...How did any of the religious fanatics of any prophet or messenger's time know a messenger/prophet?...they didn't..their hearts and minds were closed to the message because they were mired in the traditions of man that were built on the original pure message, and were corrupted by the fallability of man...and left to wallow in a static mire or no longer relevent practices which no longer had the true meaning of their creation...and the religion itself became the god rather than the divine spirit that inspired it and which lives in all things and all men...by looking without, they forgot to look within to the divine spark of light that god gave them upon their birth..that piece of god...creating us in his own image...by ignoring that spark, we sink further into the mire of religion and fail to find spiritual purity and oneness with God....

eBlip is not an Angel, and he is not the Christ(pbuh) or the promised Mahdi(pbuh). And the prophethood has ended. So I know what I am expecting. Even implying such a thing is heretical and blasphemous.

chaoswyrm:

All the fanatics of the time gave rather poor welcomes to prophets, even most times in the face of miracles even...and messengers were treated even worse...

No prophet was ever recieved or welcomed in his own house.

chaoswyrm:

Now...all the anger and indignation aside for a moment....if necessary to clear your mind of those clouding convictions and passions, take my apology, sincere and heartfelt, and forgive me for my harsh words, if they were indeed harsh. I have something I would like to say to you that I would ask you to read with an open heart...a message from God through a simple flesh and blood man who has at times been close enough to him to know his peace, and at other times been far enough away from him to have a taste of hell....the message is this: There is not God but God, and he is in all things and all things are in him. We are all vessels of the divine gift of being loved by god and being one with him. Yet we must know ourselves to know him, for he is in us, and to deny ourselves is to deny him. To deny God is heresy, as any believer can agree...so why would you desire to do so?

You couldn't be talking to me. I know there is a God and He is one.

chaoswyrm:

As all men, I am fallable in flesh and word, as is eBlip, as are you...but the message that motivates the words we try to convey is divine...and the words are limited and can never properly express a message of the magnitude of divinity, for the language itself is fallable by the nature of being of the flesh. Learn to love yourself, learn to love your neighbor, learn to love all things, only then will you find God...only then will you be able to be with God for all time...all else leads to isolation, fear, pain, hatred, jealousy, violence, insecurity, and fanaticism of the sort you have been demonstrating is often the byproduct of such feelings. It is always easier to smash that which we doubt and fear than to face it, understand it, and become stronger than it in such a way that we can see God's will in it and how it served him....

I understand what you say. But I also know my beliefs. How can you love someone who doesn't love God? I just can't. And my anger on this subject stems from his denial of my God. That is an attack on my faith and I am taught that an attack on my faith, is an attack on God. And attacking God and my beliefs in my presence is unacceptable. I am taught to defend God. The Prophets(pbuta) were taught to clear the land of idolatry. But his unbelief is not the problem. Muhammad(pbuh) even made a truce with the idolaters for a time. For the most part, they are not a trustable people. The problem is his denying my God. If I didn't defend my beliefs and there were people like him everywhere, what would happen? People of religious knowledge would be slowly exterminated from the earth. And that, is just not acceptable.

chaoswyrm:

Yes, I am aware that this post is basically contradictory, but that's part of the point...We'll see if the subtle message conveyed by the contradiction is conveyed.

I understand your message and you were quite poetic and your gnostic/sufi-esque views are acceptable.

quote:Originally posted by Wings Of Azrael:

I am in the army now. And in intelligence. 97B. Counterintelligence agent. Uncle in the CIA already. It's a lock. Lots more muslims in the CIA than you think.

I sincerely hope for your sake that your official record with the military and your family's proven allegiance to the country and it's government prove to be the overriding factor which allows you to enter your chosen field of work. If I was wrong, I am man enough to admit it is so. I do, however, feel that if you want to increase your chances of acceptance, you might consider toning down the "terroristic" tone of some of your posts and opt for more indirect and theoretical forms of speech...we live in crazy times, we must be extra cautious.

quote:

ChaosWyrm:

I honestly don't believe eBlip is doing all of this just to provoke militant religious fanatics like Azrael into a fight...I think he is really trying to share what he has found to be truth. His faith, his knowledge...By your violent outbursts in "defense" of your own relgion, you illustrate quite well one of the largest evils of religion in the world...the divisiveness of convictions and faith...the hatred and havoc it brings so long as it persists and even ONE person sees through it's lies...

Are you attacking my religion by calling it lies?

Not precisely, please re-evaluate that statement and you will see that what I am "attacking" is the institution of religion itself...no one religion in particular, but rather the broader concept of the multitude of religious dogmas the world over, all of which touch on pieces of the truth, yet all of which also contain their own set of lies, propagated by imperfect men who led those religions at various points in time. The seeds are pure, but the current product is tainted by the grubby hands of men and their desires to weild power over one another under the premise of "God's Will" to lend it authority...This is a dangerous game which we are warned against by the commandments brought down by Moses from Mt. Sinai...the commandment which I speak of is "Thou shall not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain"...When men speak on the will of God to other men with a certainty, It is either as a Sinner/liar, or a Messenger/Prophet...The hard part is sorting out the two sometimes, because the best lies hold seeds of truth, to better stand up to the test of logic...The devil's tongue is sharp, and he can be anywhere a man can be...do you never question whether he has influenced any of the men of your faith?...It's something to think on.



quote:

ChaosWyrm:

eBlip's not trying to piss you off, he's trying to help you.

Oh really? I guess I somehow missed that in him attacking my faith and claiming that which he has no knowledge of.



He is attacking your religion, not your faith...Religion and Faith are two wholly differnet ideals. Faith is pure and good, and can exist outside of Religion. Religion is an institution which is only useful when Faith is applied to it...Please learn to separate the two ideals from one another and you will see that your Faith is unassailable, yet the religion which was the vehicle of you're faith, is flawed by men who's faith wasn't as pure as your own.

quote:

ChaosWyrm:

I, on the other hand, could give a shit less about you and find your actions in the name of your faith infantile, ignorant, closed-minded, arrogant, and disgusting.

It is called being devout and a defender of my faith and of God. And you obviously aren't too far from eBlip's raft, so you can paddle on over to him and get in touch with your buddha nature and carve images and debate the merits of your inner self.



I am very distant from eBlip's raft, in fact, I'd wager we aren't even in the same ocean. I don't despise your Faith, nor you, nor do I claim any "buddha nature" or submit to "carved images"...What I despise is the way this whole thing is being handled, and those who are feeding the fire need to see the error of their ways in doing so. If a man raises a hand against you, your family, your Mosque, your Faith....smite them down for it...If a man utters ignorant blasphemies (in your eyes, however enlightened or unenlightened they may be), you should first seek to educate and share the beautiful gift you have...Isn't it a far greater victory for God and Faith to convert a heretic than to kill one?

quote:

chaoswyrm:

I have no problem with the muslim faith, I have a problem with muslims who act as you do...Just as I have no problem with the Christian or Jewish faith, but I do have problems with Christians or Jews who act a certain way (read ignorant militant fanatics).

Have no problem with the Muslim faith? Well it appears not as long as they are passive and not willing to stand up for what the believe.



On the contrary, I rather respect those who stand up for their Faith, but "standing up for" your Faith entails much more than lobbing threats back and forth or resorting to picking up a rock and smashing skulls in. I don't ask you to be Passive...quite the opposite, I expect a man of Faith to be active...even proactive...but again, action in the name of Faith should be conducted out of love and compassion, and only resorting to wrath when all other options are removed. Take this conversation for example. I am being active, not passive, and yet we are able to discuss the matter like rational, compassionate human beings, though our Faiths don't bear the same name. But it appears we CAN identify with common truths between them and discuss those and how to expand the shared truths to help eachother see things within our own faiths that perhaps we each had lost sight of in our human fallabiliity. Don't you agree that this is a much more productive and enlightening occurrence for both of us AND any others who are reading it? By sharing information and truth in this way we do not turn away the honest seekers with negative words and threats of violence....

quote:

chaoswyrm:

If I'm pissing you off, I'm glad. If I'm inflaming your self-righteous indignation, again, I am glad.

You are not pissing me off. Are you trying to?



I am also glad that I did not piss you off. I was not trying to, however I could not be sure if my words would, since they followed a vein that had been shown in the past posts to tend to incite you to anger. Though my ideas were a bit different, the feel could still have been construed in a manner that would leave you frothing at the mouth and ready to slit my throat, or what have you.. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

quote:

Chaoswyrm:

You said yourself that messengers from god are often ill-received, and that prophets are a thing of the past because of it...How will you know a messenger when they speak to you?...How did any of the religious fanatics of any prophet or messenger's time know a messenger/prophet?...they didn't..their hearts and minds were closed to the message because they were mired in the traditions of man that were built on the original pure message, and were corrupted by the fallability of man...and left to wallow in a static mire or no longer relevent practices which no longer had the true meaning of their creation...and the religion itself became the god rather than the divine spirit that inspired it and which lives in all things and all men...by looking without, they forgot to look within to the divine spark of light that god gave them upon their birth..that piece of god...creating us in his own image...by ignoring that spark, we sink further into the mire of religion and fail to find spiritual purity and oneness with God....

eBlip is not an Angel, and he is not the Christ(pbuh) or the promised Mahdi(pbuh). And the prophethood has ended. So I know what I am expecting. Even implying such a thing is heretical and blasphemous.



I never claimed he was any of those things, God help us all if he were, I think that would be enough to turn even you Atheist (that's a joke man) What I was implying however is that perhaps there was some truth buried in his blather that should not be ignored, no matter how inflaming the rest of his rhetoric was. Even the infirm, insane, and blasphemous are capable of uttering profound truths every now and again...sometimes they can see things from a side we never thought to.

quote:

chaoswyrm:

All the fanatics of the time gave rather poor welcomes to prophets, even most times in the face of miracles even...and messengers were treated even worse...

No prophet was ever recieved or welcomed in his own house.



My point exactly, thank you for concurring

quote:

chaoswyrm:

Now...all the anger and indignation aside for a moment....if necessary to clear your mind of those clouding convictions and passions, take my apology, sincere and heartfelt, and forgive me for my harsh words, if they were indeed harsh. I have something I would like to say to you that I would ask you to read with an open heart...a message from God through a simple flesh and blood man who has at times been close enough to him to know his peace, and at other times been far enough away from him to have a taste of hell....the message is this: There is not God but God, and he is in all things and all things are in him. We are all vessels of the divine gift of being loved by god and being one with him. Yet we must know ourselves to know him, for he is in us, and to deny ourselves is to deny him. To deny God is heresy, as any believer can agree...so why would you desire to do so?

You couldn't be talking to me. I know there is a God and He is one.



You ignored a large portion of my message there, and in doing so you completely missed the point. This isn't about whether God is or isn't...this is about ignoring portions of him and in doing so completely missing the point...See the larger picture, take a step back from the "Me" and "My Faith" and look at all that God has created and all that he is...and fully realize what it was I was trying to tell you....

quote:

chaoswyrm:

As all men, I am fallable in flesh and word, as is eBlip, as are you...but the message that motivates the words we try to convey is divine...and the words are limited and can never properly express a message of the magnitude of divinity, for the language itself is fallable by the nature of being of the flesh. Learn to love yourself, learn to love your neighbor, learn to love all things, only then will you find God...only then will you be able to be with God for all time...all else leads to isolation, fear, pain, hatred, jealousy, violence, insecurity, and fanaticism of the sort you have been demonstrating is often the byproduct of such feelings. It is always easier to smash that which we doubt and fear than to face it, understand it, and become stronger than it in such a way that we can see God's will in it and how it served him....

I understand what you say. But I also know my beliefs. How can you love someone who doesn't love God? I just can't. And my anger on this subject stems from his denial of my God. That is an attack on my faith and I am taught that an attack on my faith, is an attack on God. And attacking God and my beliefs in my presence is unacceptable. I am taught to defend God. The Prophets(pbuta) were taught to clear the land of idolatry. But his unbelief is not the problem. Muhammad(pbuh) even made a truce with the idolaters for a time. For the most part, they are not a trustable people. The problem is his denying my God. If I didn't defend my beliefs and there were people like him everywhere, what would happen? People of religious knowledge would be slowly exterminated from the earth. And that, is just not acceptable.



I can love even those who do not love God...How can I not, when God still loves them, even though they do not know him?...If I hate that which God loves, I place myself in the position of thinking I know better than he...don't you agree? Wouldn't you call that heretical hubris of the highest order? You can enact change through Love...as Christ did...even as they killed him on the cross he forgave them and loved them...You mentioned Muhammed allying with the idolators...How many of them do you think he converted during that time? How much more powerful a weapon is it to SHOW them what it is to have the Faith you have, and to make them want to have it too, thereby making them want to find God as you have...Threats and wrath only beget retaliation and indignation...it is easier to catch the flies with honey.

quote:

chaoswyrm:

Yes, I am aware that this post is basically contradictory, but that's part of the point...We'll see if the subtle message conveyed by the contradiction is conveyed.

I understand your message and you were quite poetic and your gnostic/sufi-esque views are acceptable.

This last part does my heart the most good of the whole thing. I am honored by your words of acceptance, and impressed by your astute grasp of the "name" of my views and Faith. You have proven that you are an intelligent and Faithful servant of your God (who is really no different than my God, or any one else's God who can truly call themselves men of faith), and it is because you are a man of intelligence and Faith that I respect you enough to try to share information with you, and would be honored by you sharing information with me in return. No one says we have to believe eachother's viewpoints...but to at least consider them and examine them objectively for ways in which they might be truths, or ways in which they might be illusions/delusions or outright lies, and to try to educate eachother on what we discover.

Thank you for participating in this discussion with me, I look forward to more.

-=CW=-

You are of much tact and diplomacy. Your views intrigue me much. If I may ask, what is your occupation? I would suggest and government diplomat or envoy, you would do well. I could probably stand to harness some of my own anger towards people being insulting and blasphemous towards my religion. These are issues I feel strongly about. And I would be in the front of the line to defend God against people such as him if this ever came down to warfare as it will at the end of time. God has granted him respite for an appointed term and the length of that term is not known. Not now, probably not soon, but one day it will come down to the believers against the infidels and I am hopeful to partake of the battle with everything of me. To me, religion and faith are inseparable. I have faith, it is in God. You are of the wise even though we may not have the same exact views. May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon you.

The strong man is not the good wrestler; the strong man is only he who controls himself when he is angry. Hadith Of Bukhari 73:135

God desires to make your burden light, for man has been created weak. Holy Quran 4:28

God does not change what is in people until they change what is in themselves. Holy Quran 13:11

No vision percieves Him, but He percieves all visions. Holy Quran 6:103

Let him who is present impart knowledge on him who is absent. Hadith Of Bukhari 3:37

Whoever is granted wisdom has indeed been given abundant wealth. Holy Quran 2:269

They have hearts with which they do not understand, and they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear. Holy Quran 7:179

Let the recompense of evil be only a like evil, but whoever forgives and is reconciled, shall be rewarded by God Himself. Holy Quran 42:40

Be not like those who forget God, therefore He caused them to forget their own souls. Holy Quran 59:19

God! There is no God but He; the Living, the Eternal. Slumber does not seize Him, nor sleep. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him but by His own permission? He knows what came before them and what will come after them. Yet they do not grasp any of His knowledge, except what He wills. His throne reaches over the heavens and the earth, and the upholding of both burdens Him not; and He is the Most High, the Great. Holy Quran 2:255

[This message has been edited by Wings Of Azrael (edited 09-06-2003).]

My occupation: Traveller through life, partaker of the lessons set out before me, teacher of those who will learn, and student of those who will teach. I have held many jobs in my life, everything from Computer Systems Technician and Network Engineer, all the way "down the ladder" to waiting tables and flipping burgers...I have spent time homeless and poverty striken, I have spent time wealthy (of worldly possession). In all those times, no matter how much or how little I had, I gave and shared that which I did have to help those around me. As with worldly things, so to with spiritual and mental things, no matter how much or how little I have, I give and share with those around me in hopes of helping them.

I thank you for your compliments and I greatly appreciate your having given consideration to the points I brought up. I can see that they made an impact, in only so much as reminding you of what you already knew. I am glad I could be of use in that way, and the verses you quoted after your reply are all wonderful illustrations of exactly the points in reference. I can see that you do honestly understand the meat of the matter and if you ever desire to share ideas on Faith, I would be honored to converse with you. Do you ever use the IRC chat for #TOTSE? If so, I will try to catch you on there. If not, do you mind personal emails in place of these public forums where random trolls can take a rather rude dump in the middle of an otherwise intelligent conversation?

-=CW=-

most "christians" don't believe in purgatory, or that unborn children(including fetus goo)go to limbo for eternity. Why you ask? Because that would mean they would have to give up the already chopped up and molested text that they work so hard to believe in. Two words, Latin Vulgate. Maybe the council of trent is a better read. The point is a "church"(I use the term loosely) can not be soley based around an ancient text that was COMPILED by st. jerome. Especially after some horny englich king decides to take these books and those books and omitt them from the "bible" of christ. So kiddies read up on that guy and you might actually know why and how the bible(means bibliography) of christ was written, you might also realize that the CATHOLIC(universal, as in the same scripture EVERYWHERE) church was founded and fully operational before this story was written, and that even then modifications and exceptions were in planning.

You might THEN realized why The Church(this means catholic church) has been faced with so much internal corruption and scandal. Or atleast that would be the way it seems, the fact is preachers and ministers alike are convicted almost every year of heinous forms of child molestation, extortion, and embezzlement. You know why it's not widely televised and the "church's" name isn't dragged throught mud and discounted at every turn? Because nobody gives a shit, everyone knows that your religion is bunk, a bastardized religion full of loopholes and blatant lies purposely engineered into a text that was originally flawed and molested from the get go.

This is why the revelations of THE bible come true in the catholic faith on a REGULAR basis where as you have to squint and take your hearing aid out to bend some event into an act of god. That's why you don't hear catholics saying jack shit about priests molesting children or other high profile scandalous events, we KNEW the society would turn on us in an attempt to destroy the church, we knew child molesters would purposely become priests in order to bring corruption and chaos from the inside.

Let go of that ragged excuse for a life model or at the very least READ other books that facilitate in your learning of your own "religion's" flaws.

The revelations in your "bible" of christ are going to happen, however you will be passed over as a paganist practicing bastardized and assbackwards INTERPRETATIONS. That's another this, the bible can not be "interpreted" as any other way than it was written, give me a fucking break, it's literal, just like every other book on the planet, why would it need to be interpreted in the same language? Now THAT is fucking retarded.

You should be scared of dieing, because you're going to hell. Me, I'll probably be standing right next to you. By mother mary's grace I may only have to spend the a portion of eternity in purgatory. Either way, if heaven is full of asshats like you, I'd rather be in hell.



Reading: ANY catechism approved and written in accordance with the official latin text.

Aa-1025

The confessions of St. Augustine

Anything on fatima and what RALLY happened.

Doofnoil...whom are you addressing in your rant? You seem to be speaking to someone, based on the useage of pronouns, however I cannot ascertain by the context of your post exactly whom it is you feel needs to be ranted at in such a fashion.

Perhaps you should clarify the intent and intended target of your post if you desire to make sense, otherwise we will all ignore it as being addressed to someone else.

After all, you haven't said anything in your post that I was not already aware of, though some of your choices of detailing the chronology and systemic creation of the Bible are a bit skewed from the historical truth, though they follow the general gist. There were several kings, emperors, and potentates involved in several ecumenical councils in succession during the first couple of centuries of the birthing of the Catholic Church. All of them were instrumental in the end result we now call the "Holy Bible" and deciding which "books" (actually letters) to include, omit, or just plain delete from the already existent format from a previous council. The choices were based on current political and theological climates and what group they wanted to ostracise and excommunicate at the time. It was often the result that a saint one day would be a heretic the next after a council decided their views on the "trinity" or any of it's "pieces" didn't fit the new plan...

It was just these kinds of occurrences that led to the schism in the orignal church that split the Theocracy between Rome (the Vatican) and Byzanium (Constantinople) and led to the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox church being two separate entities. These councils are also responsible for the villification of the Gnostic Sect, which up until that time had been considered one of the most pious orders of the Church...but I digress...

Feel free to look this information up yourself and verify it. It is historically verifiable fact that most of the "books" of the bible weren't even written by the apostles who's names they bear, but rather those names were signed by other men to lend "credibility" to their work. There is even speculation, even among the Church's own scholars today that not a single book of the bible was written by any of Christ's apostles, and the only genuine work included is the plagiarized old testament (taken from the Torah) Which was only included to give a "prelude" and "history" to the otherwise new church. It is still believed that the old testament was written by the prophets who's names are given to them, as they were a part of the Jewish faith, and evolved with it by addition, as new prophets came and went, adding their own messages to it.

Ooops, I've ranted again, my apologies for a long post, it was only inteded to stop after the first "paragraph"...

-=CW=-

sorry I was just ranting to rant, but i did find some interesting stuff here : http://www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/deuteros/dindex.html it's got some good stuff there, and I stand corrected.

Hey Chaoswyrm, you or anyone else can email me at new_world_revolution@hotmail.com

You will still need faith even when you're dead.

It's the lanuguage of heaven, so to speak.

quote:Originally posted by FourUntoFive:

You will still need faith even when you're dead.

It's the lanuguage of heaven, so to speak.

faith is the language of the ignorant and deluded..........

Said the moron who feels that he and he alone, rather than a healthy reading of the facts, can divine wisdom.

quote:Originally posted by eBlip:

faith is the language of the ignorant and deluded..........

"faith", as stated before, is not equal to religion, dogma, or an institution. Faith is simply steadfast resolve in a belief which cannot be undeniably proven objectively with commonly recognized "facts" of consensual observation...

Your beliefs are "faith" as well...

Ignorance can be educated, as I have just proved by example. You know now what "faith" means, and how that definition makes your statement not only incredibly ironic and rediculous, but also quite false.

Faith does not spring from ignorance nor delusion. Faith springs from convictions, emotions, experiences, thoughts, and how we were "educated". Do you see the irony now?

If not, I truly hope that one day you will elevate yourself beyond yourself and be able to percieve the truth which lies in wait for you on that day.

-=CW=-

quote:Originally posted by ChaosWyrm:

"faith", as stated before, is not equal to religion, dogma, or an institution. Faith is simply steadfast resolve in a belief which cannot be undeniably proven objectively with commonly recognized "facts" of consensual observation...

Your beliefs are "faith" as well...

Ignorance can be educated, as I have just proved by example. You know now what "faith" means, and how that definition makes your statement not only incredibly ironic and rediculous, but also quite false.

Faith does not spring from ignorance nor delusion. Faith springs from convictions, emotions, experiences, thoughts, and how we were "educated". Do you see the irony now?

If not, I truly hope that one day you will elevate yourself beyond yourself and be able to percieve the truth which lies in wait for you on that day.

-=CW=-

my beliefs have nothing whatsoever to do with faith.......

the reason you have done this post is because you do not understand what i am getting at........

let me try to clarify....you must please bear with me.............

i also hope deeply that you get the right understanding from what i am about to say......

you cannot have a true understanding of things using the mind........

mind can understand anything which can be divided, becuase mind is analysis, division , fragmentation....

mind can understand parts ...but the whole always eludes it.......

like you say.... 'faith is based on Faith springs from convictions, emotions, experiences, thoughts, and how we were "educated". ........

all these things are of the mind....

someone who says they know about god for instance or allah ....what he really says is he knows nothing at all..........

because how can you know anything about god.....god is the centre and not the periphery................

you can know about matter because matter is also the periphery...matter has no centreit is just the periphery.......

matter is the outside ....the periphery ..so you can know about it.....to far greater depths than we currently do.

whenever the centre is approached through the periphery ......you miss it...

you have to become it.....that is the only way to know it...

its like love can be known only when you become alover.......

love exists when you are empty....knowledge exists when you are filled.........knowledge belongs to the ego.........

and the ego can never penetrate the centre ...it is the periphery.....

the ego can study..the ego can make you a great schollar, maybe even a religious schollar...you may know the bible inside out ....the koran the vedas and all the upanishads......yet you still know nothing at all...because this is all knowledge from the outside....this knowledge is already old and dead........the truth is alive....

you move in circles....and when someone moves in a circle ....a very great illusion is created..........you feel like you are going somewhere.......when the reality is you are going nowhere......

jesus said knock and the door shall be opened unto you........but please make sure it is the door you are knocking and not the wall....

when you knock at the door....when you really reach the door .....you will find that it has always been open..

when you start through knowledge or teachings...and not through being, you are knocking at the wall.....

become and be......dont gather informatio...

if you want to know love then be a lover......if you want to know god ..then be meditation.......

dont know about love...be it...

dont accumilate what others have said about god..learning will not help.......you must drop everthing you know.....so that you can know...

drop all information and all sdriptures forget all korans and bibles....they are barriers......they are the wall....

the truth is to become enlightened......to become aware of what you truly are......to know what you truly are... it has nothing whatsoever to do with what others have said.......what others have said is irrelevant...

you are already there.....

close your eyes and you are there in your infinite glory...why consult the koran or bible.......

because you are there......and admit it you know that you are...as in i am.....

because you are there already ....you need not ask any body .......

you ask and you miss......

the very asking shows that you think you are somewhere else...........

by consulting bibles or korans .....you are asking for a map to the truth...a way there...........but for the inner world...there is no map....there is no need ....because you are not moving to an unknown destination.....really you are not moving at all......you are already there....

you are the goal ....you are not the seeker you are the enlightenment....

the goal is not ahead....it is behind .....the goal is not somewhere you will reach.....the goal is somewhere you have left.......it is the source...

why consult others and have faith in what they say or the bible and have faith in what it says....realise you are finding out about yourself by asking others........this is absurd......

another thing to remember is ....your being is life........scriptures are bound to be dead.........and you go on asking the dead about life........

jesus will not be any help ...you must become a jesus........that is the way....

rid yourself of your mind.....mind is old ....it is never new..it cannot be new by its very nature ...how can memories or thinking about something be new ......

by the time you have thought about something it is already gone.....

mind itself means the past......when you recognise something...it is already known and it is already gone ...it is the past...it is never the here and now....it is already part of the world of the dead....

it is already old.....that is why through the mind nothing original is ever born....

mind cannot be original it can only be repetitive.

all that is new is born out of consciousness....not out of mind .....consciousness is your inner most source...and consciousness is not the mind...

your mind has picked up lots of dust and dirt throughout its journey and you have never taken a bath.........you cling to it and yet it is filthy...

meditation is just a method to bathe the mind to take a bath.....the inner baths......so that the dust is cleaned away, and the inner consciousness can come to the surface and can encounter realiy....

the reality is there......you are there...but the encounter has never occured....because between you and reality is the mind.....whatsoever you experience .....yoiu experience through the mind.

even jesus said to his disciples.....if you have ears to hear...then hear me ......if you have eyes to see then see me.......

but he realised like i do that although you have ears and eyes......you are deaf and blind......

whenever you hear throught the mind you are not hearing .........because the mind interprets what you hear..the mind colours ..the mind judges ...the mind changes ...the mind evaluates......and anything that reaches you now is already old and distorted.......

the mind has commented....

right listening means the capacity to listen without the mind..to hear without interpreting judging condemning and favouring or disliking.....without saying yes or no.....

if i spoke to you .....i would be able to see your mind nodding yes or no....even if the nod was invisible i would be able to see it.......sometimes you say yes with your mind and you are not even aware of it.....the mind has interpreted.....and you have missed .....

just listening and not judging...and someday you will realise that this mind has caused a whole heap of trouble......

if you saw that then you would realise that the mind goes agains the new ....the real the truth........and then you would realise that mind has created this society ....then you would realise that you have been influenced and clouded by the society.....

then you will realise that whatsoever created by the mind is always against the new....

you cannot find anything more orthodox than mind......

you will see that a communist is as orthodox as any christian muslim or hindu......

the orthodoxy is the same...it is not referring to what you believe.....it is referring to how these guys believe...and they all believe through the mind...........



only meditation can kill the mind .......nothing else......

meditation is mind suicide .....

if you can put the mind aside without any medication drugs and without any physical means.....then you are the master.....

and when you are the master ......you will see that everything is new............you will see that it has always been so....

from the very beginning to the very end ...everything is new young and fresh....you will see that in reality ...death has never occurred in this world...........it is eternal life....



the problem is ...you value your thoughts so much ......you cling to them as if they are a great form of bliss for you....as if through thoughts and experience you are going to achieve life and the hidden treasures of life....you have never achieved anything like that through your thoughts ...it is a hopeless cause....

but you cling to them in the hope that some day or other somewhere in the future that has not come yet....throught your thinkin and beliefs you are going to achieve the truth.....

up to now nothing like that has happened ...you say in the future when i am dead i will go to heaven......or you say in the future when i am dead ....that is the end ....but all these are mere words of the mind because you do not know the truth.......

and you never will know the truth ...becuase truth is nothing to be thought ...it is there and you must be it........

thinking is groping around in the dark with the tart you call a mind.....

meditation is looking ...it is opening the eyes and seeing ...it is not thinking about something .....it is just simply looking without thought......the very looking transforms you.......you have been carrying your thoughts around with you for all this time...how can you let go of your valuable thoughts.......in reality they are not valuable at all............

do this:

close your doors and sit down with a pen and a blank sheet of papaer...

whatever comes into your mind/your thoughts...write them down.....everything that comes into your mind .......write it down........dont polish it up in any way...because this is totally personal and is not going to be seen by anyone......just go on writing everything down....

now look at the notes.....this is what your thinking is......

if you look at them .....you will think this is some madman at work.......if you show them to your most intimate friend ...he will think you have gone crazy....

and it is the same with him....we go on hiding the craziness.....

we have faces and behind those faces we are madmen

you have never experienced reality...except when you were a child that knew nothing.....even jesus said in order to enter the kingdom of god you must be like a child,

everything you see is an illusion .....im not saying that everythin is an illusion....im saying that by the time you see anything your mind has already had its way.....and you fail to realise this..

whereas i know this is an absolute FACT.. everything you experience is just a reflection of the real thing ........ a distorted truth........you have only ever seen reflections.......

its time to see the real thing.....

you depend on your mind...and you have truly never tried otherwise......and most of you will never try....you value your thoughts so much and cherish them as if they are in any way connected to reality as if they are significant ......when in reality they are totally insignificant and are a barrier......

the mind is a barrier and yet you are convinced it is your friend.....and all this conviction without ever looking at what is really going on.

the mind is the enemy ......and you have been supporting it all along...

i have said many things which are against the mind.....and you will take these things into your mind and make them a support......if whatsoever i have said becomes knowledge to you ....then even things against the mind will have become supports....whatever i have said ....dont make it a learning ...dont make it knowledge....rather look at what i have said .....and drop all that you know.......dont make it a new addition to your old mind............

im sorry about the lengthyness......but i took time out to try and explain the truth...

How is any of that ridiculous, groundless bullshit different from blind faith? Can you support any of it?

quote:Originally posted by eBlip:

this is a message to all .....so called christians out there.....

the next time a loved one dies......dont cry..because as a believer you know that they are going to heaven....

so rest assured and rejoice for they are with your maker....

and the next time you get seriously ill......refuse all medication....because is it not better to go to heaven than suffer any longer on earth.......and dont give me that bullshit about ....i want to stay on earth to do gods work....

the fact is ....as christians you have faith in god......what i am saying is that you must understand that when you are dead ...faith will no longer be an issue for you as you will be with god himself in heaven (god bless you, jesus loves you and all that crap)....

so really all you christians should be gagging to die....and all you muslims ......so you have my total backing...i hope you all die as soon as possible then you can rejoice in heaven...

so drop dead quick please and rejoice.....

please spread this message



fuck eBlip i agree 100%. o...please die quickly, i want you to be happy, so die. stupid religions, ppl shud stop wastin their life, they are all a pack of fuckin hypocrits ne1, i dnt no 1 person hu has a true faith

I hate you already, kid. Why the fuck do you care how Christians live their lives? Is it hurting you in some way? If you don't like it, don't live like them, and stop bitching. It's none of your damn business.

It must also be stated that the overwhelming majority of Christians can spell and form a coherent sentence, an art you've yet to grasp.

quote:Originally posted by Armed&Angry:

How is any of that ridiculous, groundless bullshit different from blind faith? Can you support any of it?

you are blind.....

i tried to point you in the direction of reality , but your mind thinks it already sees...

i am happy for you to do as you please..

and i can support all of what i have said.....it has nothing at all whatsoever to do with faith.....

one day i looked inwards.....i saw what the mind was doing.....i let go of all thoughts and by accident one day after many years i saw the truth.......what i saw was not actually what i was looking for....it was absolutely instantaneous.....from that moment on i was no more.

i am a fully enlightened one...

there is no 'i think i see the truth'

truth is all there really is.......once you see it there is no way back..

eBlip:

you are blind.....

Who are you to say anyone is blind when you yourself are blind? If A&A were indeed blind (which I am sure he has sight), and how in the world could you help him see with your anti-religious waxing? It would indeed be one of the most uttered cliches of our time. First, off I have no problems with Muslims or Christians or Jews or even Zoroastrians...I have problems with people who claim to be part of those religions and seek only parts of their scriptures and ignore the rest because they seek to do evil as well as feel like a believer. These people are problematic, but not as problematic as you eBlip. Straight attacking someone's faith is wrong. Debating and reasoning is good, but outright denounciation of God (whom you can not accept because you refuse to see His signs, and whom I can not deny just because you don't see His signs) is wrong.

eBlip:

i tried to point you in the direction of reality , but your mind thinks it already sees...

It seems that your self-indulgent all-knowing buddhist nature would appear as a nightmare of blasphemy to most believers. His mind thinks it already sees? I think you are in a perpetual state of hallucination.

eBlip:

i am happy for you to do as you please..

Now if that truly were the case you wouldn't be on here trying to explain away God to the believers, the semi-believers and whoever else don't share your views.

eBlip:

and i can support all of what i have said.....it has nothing at all whatsoever to do with faith.....

Support all you say then. Because you can not show enough support for God not existing. And I will agree with you that you have no faith.

eBlip:

one day i looked inwards.....i saw what the mind was doing.....i let go of all thoughts and by accident one day after many years i saw the truth.......what i saw was not actually what i was looking for....it was absolutely instantaneous.....from that moment on i was no more.

Was this during a drug binge? You were no more? No more what?

eBlip:

i am a fully enlightened one...

Most people on drugs think this way. You aren't enlightened to anything except err. I may be highly critical of people sometimes because they use and abuse their faith, but my arguments are not unfair. This argument could never be fair because if you were truly enlightened you would know there is a God. The Lord God of all, no matter the doctrine that appeases you.

eBlip:

there is no 'i think i see the truth'

I am sure you are right. I saw truth and you have seen truth, but you denied it.

eBlip:

truth is all there really is.......once you see it there is no way back..

This is fact. But I don't see how you can say this? You have seen truth and turned back from it.



[This message has been edited by Wings Of Azrael (edited 09-08-2003).]

quote:Originally posted by eBlip:

i am a fully enlightened one...

there is no 'i think i see the truth'



You're a buffoon using pseudo-mysticism to masquerade as an intellectual. You completely ignore the fact that each individual's perceptions are entirely subjective and predicated on several mental forces constantly pulling them in different directions. There is an objective "truth" in all things, but you cannot find it within. Only when you train yourself to accept only that which can be proven will you even approach something akin to reasonable thought. Until then, enjoy your feeling of mystical superiority. I hope it gets you laid at eurotrash clubs, because it certainly won't get you anything else.

^is this guy fucked or what?! Man Eblip, your as dumb as the last time i read your post. Christians aren't by default sent to heaven they have to earn it........there is a hell according to the religion, therefore if they die, they are afraid that they will go to hell, unless they have full confidences that they will go to heaven, Eblip.........how about YOU die so that we can rid the world of your sheer stupidity and ignorance.

quote:Originally posted by Armed&Angry:

You're a buffoon using pseudo-mysticism to masquerade as an intellectual. You completely ignore the fact that each individual's perceptions are entirely subjective and predicated on several mental forces constantly pulling them in different directions. There is an objective "truth" in all things, but you cannot find it within. Only when you train yourself to accept only that which can be proven will you even approach something akin to reasonable thought. Until then, enjoy your feeling of mystical superiority. I hope it gets you laid at eurotrash clubs, because it certainly won't get you anything else.

thank you armed and angry....

but know a few things....consciousness is not perception... dont perceive ....BE.

Proving the external is just the periphery....

you miss again im afraid......

the periphery is not the source......the source is within.......the only thing you know for real......and can be 100 percent sure about in your existance is 'that you exist' the man across the road.....he may be part of your existance.....it may be possible that the whole universe is a play put on for just you.......

you dont know........

the only thing you can be 100 percent sure of is that you exist..

as this is something you yourself can depend on ........i can t depend on the fact that you appear to exist......i can only depend on the fact that i know that i exist....

so this is where the search should begin and you will find that this is where the search also ends...

anyway .......have a good life ....and i hope you find what you are searching for

quote:Originally posted by eBlip:

the periphery is not the source......the source is within.......the only thing you know for real......and can be 100 percent sure about in your existance is 'that you exist' the man across the road.....he may be part of your existance.....it may be possible that the whole universe is a play put on for just you.......



Aah, yes. Extraexistential nihilism.

The thing is, none of us really exist, eBlip. You're actually conversing with another section of your mind, and that makes all your efforts amount to mental masturbation and little else.

In order to function adequately in society, you will have to accept the fact that there are perceptions other than your own and you are not in a Matrix virtual reality dreamworld fabricated by your own mind.

If you still remain obstinate and refuse to accept anything other than your own existence, then you stay permanently locked down in your own self-imposed solipstic perception, while everyone else, with their individual perceptions harbors alternate theories.

quote:Originally posted by Dark_Magneto:

Aah, yes. Extraexistential nihilism.

The thing is, none of us really exist, eBlip. You're actually conversing with another section of your mind, and that makes all your efforts amount to mental masturbation and little else.

In order to function adequately in society, you will have to accept the fact that there are perceptions other than your own and you are not in a Matrix virtual reality dreamworld fabricated by your own mind.

If you still remain obstinate and refuse to accept anything other than your own existence, then you stay permanently locked down in your own self-imposed solipstic perception, while everyone else, with their individual perceptions harbors alternate theories.

i accept truth only.....

if you see the truth then good on ya.

if you dont then good on ya..

quote:Originally posted by Hammer&Sickle:

^is this guy fucked or what?! Man Eblip, your as dumb as the last time i read your post. Christians aren't by default sent to heaven they have to earn it........there is a hell according to the religion, therefore if they die, they are afraid that they will go to hell, unless they have full confidences that they will go to heaven, Eblip.........how about YOU die so that we can rid the world of your sheer stupidity and ignorance.

if you saw unclouded reality then you would say to yourself...

i have just made an ignorant statement based on something i dont know about ..after all who is there to die....

youll never understand it....your blinkered...like a horse with a damn good set of blinkers on.......

You accept what you think is truth.

There is no way to just... have all answers to all questions magically presented to you in an accurate and understandable form.

quote:Originally posted by Dark_Magneto:

Aah, yes. Extraexistential nihilism.

The thing is, none of us really exist, eBlip. You're actually conversing with another section of your mind, and that makes all your efforts amount to mental masturbation and little else.

In order to function adequately in society, you will have to accept the fact that there are perceptions other than your own and you are not in a Matrix virtual reality dreamworld fabricated by your own mind.

If you still remain obstinate and refuse to accept anything other than your own existence, then you stay permanently locked down in your own self-imposed solipstic perception, while everyone else, with their individual perceptions harbors alternate theories.

see your mind calls it extratesticular something.......

it has no name ...but the nearest thing is truth.....

who the hell is selling these super blinkers...

and by the way..the way i function in society is immaterial to me.......

society is also blinkered....

i walk amongst the blind every day...most of my friends are also blind....

and as for functioning adequately in society... i know that most of society is full of pure foolishness......so i dont ever want to become a part of that....

it is absurd to force oneself to become a fool ....

yet fools are alos lovable and sometimes friendly....so i can quite happily mingle with them until i die..

quote:Originally posted by eBlip:

see your mind calls it extratesticular something.......

it has no name ...but the nearest thing is truth.....

No, the nearest thing is "moronic bullshit that Rene Descartes utterly assraped with the steel cock of logic four hundred years ago."

Common mistake.

eBlip:

You claim many things, from being God, Jesus, a Buddhist, and Enlightened, all the way to making claims of accusation against me and others calling us blind to the truth, and bound by our minds to see only the "periphery" and miss the "center" and other such pseudo-mystic bullshit.

Let me explain a few things to you, and perhaps your lack of a mind (by your own admission, the mind is a bad thing and thinking is virtually a "sin" to your apparent "belief" - or FAITH as I stated before) will not hinder your uptake of the FACTS of cold hard truth, which you claim you already see, but apparently don't.

You don't know me, you don't have a clue what I know, feel, see, do, think, believe, or am capable of. You demonstrate ignorance and hubris when you pretend that you do and seek to talk down to me as if I were an unenlightened sheep. I have seen and touched God, I have seen and touched the deepest darknesses of human and spiritual contrivance, I have shrugged off the mortal coil, the chains of conscious "thought", and the blinders of society and sat third-eye to eye with the magnificent truth and it is pure and true as to be indescribable and incommunicable in fallable human language...and it is pure THOUGHT.

You cast aside the divine gifts wantonly, rigtfully seeing that "conscious" thought is hindering, with it's need for tangible facts, immediate answers, logical trains, and other such demands...but then you cast aside the pure thought of truth and claim that everything is about "being" this or that...I have news for you...

Nothing can "be" but that it is perceived, by at least itself...and perception is a function of thought, be it conscious or otherwise. Information and perception are that which makes things...dilineations of the "is" and "is not" which create identities apart from the primordial infinity-zero which is truth...And in that Information...is God. Always will be, always has been...and we are a part of that, and a part of God, as God is that first perception, that omnipresent perception, that keeps all things in existence even when we snuff it...The first recognition of one "thing" by itself and of itself, outside of time, as time was not yet recognized, created existence...and time "passed" by experience and creation as this nothing seemed to grow when all that was within it in such balance as to negate eachother and not exist untill recognized as separate, was recognized...the illusion of space was created, the illusion of motion through space and time was created....and in due "time" we were created...nothing more than pieces of God, passing through the things that "exist" reaffirming their existence and maintaining the creation by interacting with it....

Our thoughts, on their deepest level, are God's thoughts, our love at it's deepest level is God's Love, our Hate at it's deepest level is God's Hate....

But we are not the only vehicles of God...all things are of God and all things are vehicles of God and serve to reaffirm and interact with the rest of creation...they reaffirm us as we reaffirm them....It's a brilliant "plan" really, though it took no planning at all, it just IS, and always has been since time began, and will be until time ends....

Now, as for you not having "faith" or caring for society, or thinking with your mind...yet claiming one must "be" a Jesus...

You are a million miles from ever being able to "be" a Jesus with thoughts like those...and yes, they are thoughts...and worse, they are thoughts from your ego, which thinks it knows who it is, and thinks it knows something no one else does, and thinks it is better than everyone else...and refuses to recognize that it's views are also just another "faith" and are being "backed up" by the same vicious circle logic that any religion or faith would use to back up their beliefs...spouting intangibles...But worse, you move yourself into the dangerous realm of trying to encourage cultism and hoping to snag blind followers to your "way" who are ready to drop their logic, thoughts, identity, and minds to follow you...You are a petty con man playing at prophet, just like any other feeble-minded cult leader wannabe.

You haven't touched God, or you'd know what a fool you are.

You haven't looked into the Abyss, or you'd know how close to it you are.

You haven't looked into your own soul and seen ANYTHING except your own ego staring back at you with a cheesy grin and a sign saying "nothing more to see here".

You aren't anywhere near being in any sort of position to qualify to talk down to me, boy. I've seen your kind come and go since before you even knew how to spell "metaphysical". If you think you know the truth, that's fine, if you keep it to yourself. But your blatant spreading of your misinformation, propaganda, and call to ignorance is a flagrant attack on truth, sensibility, and the very definition of "enlightened". Thus you bely your own claims with your own claims.

You have also YET to speak on ANY of the issues, questions, statements, or matters at hand. You blather on endlessly with your pseudo-philisophical wanna-be mysticism and hope that your long posts full of 2 line quips will deter us from seeing the truth of you...

That truth is you are scared, alone, ignorant, and self-centered. You want everyone to think you are some sort of guru so maybe you will be respected, then you can feel less alone and scared...I have more news for you. Even if anyone DID fall for it and respect you, which I highly doubt, you would still be scared, alone, ignorant, and self-centered...just with company who was even more so, and were nothing more than text on a screen with interactive properties.

To BE love, you must understand Love...and to Understand Love, you must unsterstand others. To BE truth, you must understand truth...and to Understand truth, you must understand others. To Understand others, you must first understand yourself...and you are far from that, based on your posts here.

Delusions of grandeur, dissociative schizotypal disorder, and Emotional retardatation could be the cause of your "enlightenment"...get yourself checked out. You aren't the Christ, you aren't a Prophet, and you aren't anything new.

For everyone who ISN'T eBlip, I apologize for you having read this, if you even bothered to.

-=CW=-

Well said and that is no lie.*rouses people to a standing ovation*

Let me just say a couple of words. Eblip is a NAIVE soul not an enlightened soul.

quote:Originally posted by ChaosWyrm:

eBlip:

You claim many things, from being God, Jesus, a Buddhist, and Enlightened, all the way to making claims of accusation against me and others calling us blind to the truth, and bound by our minds to see only the "periphery" and miss the "center" and other such pseudo-mystic bullshit.

you call it all pseudo mystic ......you should see for yourself .......and you WILL find otherwise.



Let me explain a few things to you, and perhaps your lack of a mind (by your own admission, the mind is a bad thing and thinking is virtually a "sin" to your apparent "belief" - or FAITH as I stated before) will not hinder your uptake of the FACTS of cold hard truth, which you claim you already see, but apparently don't.

explanation is totally fruitless....even my explanation is a waste of time.....the truth is you must see it for yourself....and i have told you how... thats all.

by my admission you must know the mind, and see for yourself what it is doing...it is clogged up with ideas and opinions.....you fail to see that mind is your master.....and you fail to see that all its ideas and opinions are just ideas and opinions....no more......

i say once you meditate ...you will become the master of the mind....rather than the mind becoming the master of you.

if you have an idea or like or dislike for what you see....then you are not seeing things for what they truly are......



You don't know me, you don't have a clue what I know, feel, see, do, think, believe, or am capable of. You demonstrate ignorance and hubris when you pretend that you do and seek to talk down to me as if I were an unenlightened sheep. I have seen and touched God, I have seen and touched the deepest darknesses of human and spiritual contrivance, I have shrugged off the mortal coil, the chains of conscious "thought", and the blinders of society and sat third-eye to eye with the magnificent truth and it is pure and true as to be indescribable and incommunicable in fallable human language...and it is pure THOUGHT.

i know very little about you ......that is the truth.. and i am not interested in knowing about you......all are equal this i sincerely believe........but the journey is to know oneself..not to know others.

my interpretation from what you say above....

is that you are an enlightened being....

then you would know that all that i say is true....

otherwise you are not enlightened im afraid...your thoughts have simply misguided you AGAIN.

You cast aside the divine gifts wantonly, rigtfully seeing that "conscious" thought is hindering, with it's need for tangible facts, immediate answers, logical trains, and other such demands...but then you cast aside the pure thought of truth and claim that everything is about "being" this or that...I have news for you...



again if you had looked ...there are no divine gifts...all is wihin yiou .......if anything you are the gift.....and truth is not a though t truth IS and that is it......

if you analysed yourself properly you would see that when the eye comes into contact with a colour ....lets say blue visual consciousness arises which is simply awareness of the prescence of a colour......but it does not recognize that it is blue..there is no recognition at this stage...it is perception...that recognises that it is blue

perception itself is the perceiver ....not you........

......im sorry .....in reality this would take years of searching for you to see...and you may not want to .....

so i ll not really get into it

Nothing can "be" but that it is perceived, by at least itself...and perception is a function of thought, be it conscious or otherwise. Information and perception are that which makes things...dilineations of the "is" and "is not" which create identities apart from the primordial infinity-zero which is truth...And in that Information...is God. Always will be, always has been...and we are a part of that, and a part of God, as God is that first perception, that omnipresent perception, that keeps all things in existence even when we snuff it...The first recognition of one "thing" by itself and of itself, outside of time, as time was not yet recognized, created existence...and time "passed" by experience and creation as this nothing seemed to grow when all that was within it in such balance as to negate eachother and not exist untill recognized as separate, was recognized...the illusion of space was created, the illusion of motion through space and time was created....and in due "time" we were created...nothing more than pieces of God, passing through the things that "exist" reaffirming their existence and maintaining the creation by interacting with it....

Our thoughts, on their deepest level, are God's thoughts, our love at it's deepest level is God's Love, our Hate at it's deepest level is God's Hate....

But we are not the only vehicles of God...all things are of God and all things are vehicles of God and serve to reaffirm and interact with the rest of creation...they reaffirm us as we reaffirm them....It's a brilliant "plan" really, though it took no planning at all, it just IS, and always has been since time began, and will be until time ends....

Now, as for you not having "faith" or caring for society, or thinking with your mind...yet claiming one must "be" a Jesus...

You are a million miles from ever being able to "be" a Jesus with thoughts like those...and yes, they are thoughts...and worse, they are thoughts from your ego, which thinks it knows who it is, and thinks it knows something no one else does, and thinks it is better than everyone else...and refuses to recognize that it's views are also just another "faith" and are being "backed up" by the same vicious circle logic that any religion or faith would use to back up their beliefs...spouting intangibles...But worse, you move yourself into the dangerous realm of trying to encourage cultism and hoping to snag blind followers to your "way" who are ready to drop their logic, thoughts, identity, and minds to follow you...You are a petty con man playing at prophet, just like any other feeble-minded cult leader wannabe.

You haven't touched God, or you'd know what a fool you are.

You haven't looked into the Abyss, or you'd know how close to it you are.

You haven't looked into your own soul and seen ANYTHING except your own ego staring back at you with a cheesy grin and a sign saying "nothing more to see here".

You aren't anywhere near being in any sort of position to qualify to talk down to me, boy. I've seen your kind come and go since before you even knew how to spell "metaphysical". If you think you know the truth, that's fine, if you keep it to yourself. But your blatant spreading of your misinformation, propaganda, and call to ignorance is a flagrant attack on truth, sensibility, and the very definition of "enlightened". Thus you bely your own claims with your own claims.

You have also YET to speak on ANY of the issues, questions, statements, or matters at hand. You blather on endlessly with your pseudo-philisophical wanna-be mysticism and hope that your long posts full of 2 line quips will deter us from seeing the truth of you...

That truth is you are scared, alone, ignorant, and self-centered. You want everyone to think you are some sort of guru so maybe you will be respected, then you can feel less alone and scared...I have more news for you. Even if anyone DID fall for it and respect you, which I highly doubt, you would still be scared, alone, ignorant, and self-centered...just with company who was even more so, and were nothing more than text on a screen with interactive properties.

To BE love, you must understand Love...and to Understand Love, you must unsterstand others. To BE truth, you must understand truth...and to Understand truth, you must understand others. To Understand others, you must first understand yourself...and you are far from that, based on your posts here.

TO KNOW LOVE YOU MUST BE IN LOVE......IT IS NOT A MATTER OF UNDERSTANDING ANYONE ANYTHING ...JUST BE IN LOVE

YOU OBVIOUSLY DONT UNDERSTAND LOVE.

Delusions of grandeur, dissociative schizotypal disorder, and Emotional retardatation could be the cause of your "enlightenment"...get yourself checked out. You aren't the Christ, you aren't a Prophet, and you aren't anything new.

For everyone who ISN'T eBlip, I apologize for you having read this, if you even bothered to.

-=CW=-

ANYWAY .....IM BORED AND I SEE MY ENERGIES ARE BEING WASTED ON YOU ......SO I WILL MEDITATE AND DO SOMETHING USEFUL

ANY WAY I WISH YOU ALL THE BEST AND GOOD LUCK TO YOU WHATEVER YOU DO WITH YOUR LIFE

MAY YOU BE FREE OF ILL WILL....MAY YOU BE FREE OF ILLNESS....AND MAY YOU BE HAPPY AND LIVE LONG.

May you pick up a goddamn book in the immediate future.

what form of meditation do you practice?

does this form of meditation involve you purposely stunting your intellectual growth by postulating on subjects that have been defined and reviewed expensively over the course of lifetimeS? Maybe this "meditation" is so that you can dwell on topics that you have no way of deining because you're too fucking lazy to read anything of substance besides populat mechanics. Get out of your parent's house and produce your own religion, otherwise, you're crackpot(or head) plain and simple.

quote:Originally posted by eBlip:

ANYWAY .....IM BORED AND I SEE MY ENERGIES ARE BEING WASTED ON YOU ......SO I WILL MEDITATE AND DO SOMETHING USEFUL

ANY WAY I WISH YOU ALL THE BEST AND GOOD LUCK TO YOU WHATEVER YOU DO WITH YOUR LIFE

MAY YOU BE FREE OF ILL WILL....MAY YOU BE FREE OF ILLNESS....AND MAY YOU BE HAPPY AND LIVE LONG.



My my, did I strike a nerve?

Your all caps reaction to my post seems to imply that not only did I make you upset, but also that you will be leaving this thread alone in the future because your words are "wasted" here. I do hope that's the case, that leaves room for the adults to chat in a productive manner. When you are over your "sickness" feel free to come back and participate, instead of instigate. We welcome all participants who have something to offer...when that applies to you, we'll see ya.

-=CW=-

quote:Originally posted by Armed&Angry:

May you pick up a goddamn book in the immediate future.

you are funny....but im bored now with all this

i have not got the ability to get through to you guys with words....it would have been better if i could have met you all and you may have taken things a little more serious

......when you could see for yourselves that i am not really a bad person and that life is very exciting to me .. and i hold no ill will towards anyone.....

i have gotten myself trapped in a world of words.....if you met me you would be able to see that i find some books interesting......

but i really practice what i preach rather than spending my time doing other things...



i appologise for being so opinionated...

i did it on purpose ...like someone said earlier in the thread ....just to get reactions ....to ease my boredom.....as i am currently starting a business....which means being on the net all day long for the next 3 months or so gathering contacts that i require....



special appologies go to wings of azrael....as i feel i greatly offended you...

you are entitled to your own beliefs ..and i have a lot of respect for your conviction in it....and i hope it gives you a happy life and a happy death.....i openly appologise to mohammed (pbuh) and ALLAH.

nice one also to armed and angry.....i like your spirit......its very competitive and im sure it will get you everything you want from life....

i have my methods of getting through life ....just as you all do .....

but being a buddhist....i understand i have tried to be very manipualtive....which is totally wrong ....even in jest.....i have tried to force my ideas on others.....which is also wrong ...... i have disrespected others religions just to get a point across.......but i will pay the price for my actions ......

for me and me only in this thread......i know there is no escaping karma ....as you callit....i call it kamma...

some of you know otherwise....and i respect that ......

but you have all taught me a valuable lesson in life ....and that is.....

respect all others opinions....for they are free to do as they please.

never argue with a mans religion .....for to him it is extremely important.

its wrong and nasty to deceive others in any way in order to get a point across.....(when i said i was enlightened).

and what may seem like fun to me ....can cause distress to others....

let the ego go a bit ....because it causes suffering to others..be it anger geneerated within them, or subjecting them to blastphemy...or just trying to pull them down..

ANYWAY.......good day to you all.....

i hope i cause you no further distress with regard to your beliefs...

everything i have stated above .....was important for me to state .......because i am sorry for upsetting anyone about their religion...it is not something to be messed with........

I will take what you said in the best of ways and I will not be unjust with you. I fear if we would have met in person and you were to have said the same things as you said on here, that we would have never got to this point right now. And that is, I have no problem with what you believe. But when you condemn others beliefs and denounce their faith, they are bound to respond and possibly with violence. No one is perfect. Every last one of us on this board has felt anger, sadness, happiness and all the other human emotions...because we are human. We only do what we can do. Try as hard as you might to restrain or refrain and you will find that sometimes you can not, and vice versa. I do not have emnity for you. And actually this was quite the exercise for me...in exploring the rest of my faith and religion and not just the 'Holy War' side. I do not worship that which you worship and I never will, and you do not worship that which I worship and probably never will...does that make us enemies? I don't think it has to be like that. So I hope the best for you in your spirtual quest. You call it kamma, I call it Allah. And in closing, if you do by some chance read the holy quran if only to find out what it says, you will find that Islam in fact, is a peaceful religion. May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon you.

[This message has been edited by Wings Of Azrael (edited 09-10-2003).]

I'll have no such mercy. Ignorance is one thing; willful ignorance is quite another. You exemplify the latter, eBlip.