Well, In the bible it says "He who believes in me shall have everlasting life, and not perish" or something to that degree.

But, it also says "and the smoke of their TORMENT shall rise up FOR EVER AND EVER.

Notice the "for ever and ever" and "torment". To have torment means that you are alive, and this would mean that the people in hell also live for all eternity.



Having said this, I think that if there is a hell, this is what happens:

1. You are resurected on Judgement Day.

2. You are not a spirit, you are a body of flesh and bone.

3 You Stand before God.

4 If you get sent to heaven, good job.

5. If you get sent to hell, it probably won't be eternal torment. What it will probably be is just the End. It will be the complete and utter death of your spirit. There will be nothing but blackness, but you will not remember what once was, because you simply DO NOT EXIST. The lake of fire will kill your resurected body, but it will also finish your spirit off and your time on the universe will be done.



This has probably been said before, but I felt I had to share it.

-MD

Interesting viewpoint.

"Hell" doesn't exist, plain and simple. There is punishment however for not living a good and decent life. That would be to simply cease existing (which for all we know happens either way)

http://www.heavenlyparadise.cjb.net/grave/hell.htm

This one is better

http://www.heavenlyparadise.cjb.net/grave/hell.htm

Shit, I wish I was Christian

I agree that Hell is probably just the second death, where you cease to exist and are forever seperated from God. That doesn't sound so bad, seeing as this was the case before each one of us came to this world.

maybe heaven is being infitely close or one with god in all it's mighty and hell is being cast away from god in darkness for all eternity.

maybe we're in hell right now

I don't think so. It's not much of a hell if we have an easy escape.

I am a very liberal catholic and I am going to go out on a limb here. Hell was created by early members of the church to discourage pagan converts to do what the disciples considered "sin" this "sin" was the practice of pagan traditions. Jesus was a Jew, and as kikey has pointed out there is no real hell in Judiism(correct me if I'm wrong here kikey). So jesus teaching that there would be hell would be strange to say the least. I also believe that there isn't a hell because of God's eternal forgiveness. This can be through confession also. I just believe that Hell is a made up thing.

quote:Originally posted by Metal_Demon:

5. If you get sent to hell, it probably won't be eternal torment. What it will probably be is just the End. It will be the complete and utter death of your spirit. There will be nothing but blackness, but you will not remember what once was, because you simply DO NOT EXIST. The lake of fire will kill your resurected body, but it will also finish your spirit off and your time on the universe will be done.



This has probably been said before, but I felt I had to share it.

-MD

Yes and in the bible it seys that god is justice and define justace... well would justace be beeing tourcherd for ever or infinity. no i dont think so.. also what were you befor you were born i mean way befor... thats right nothing you dont even remember so that something to think about..

hell is reincarnation..think about it..this is hell....we have to put up with the good and the bad...and the inevitable mystery of death...thats hell

Hell does not exist unless you want it to. (No, I'm not saying it is determined by your actions on the physical as "punishment" or something.)

You did not just "not exist" before you were incarnated. You always existed, you are eternal and nothing but a branch off of a consciousness that nobody can even begin to percieve right now.

There is no "judgement day" because God does not judge. God is simply expressing himself through all life, all that you say and do. We all go to "heaven" if you want to call it that, when we die.

It was our choice to reincarnate.

Evil is a human illusion. There is only lack of love, lack of wisdom, knowledge and understanding. Sure if you look at things that are happening and think they are happening for a reason YOU can justify, then there is room for judging them "good" or "evil" but if there is a bigger reason and you learn to understand it, you realize evil is illusion

Food for thought.

[This message has been edited by Fuck (edited 09-16-2003).]

Something that I've thought about Hell... not an actual belief of mine (I also don't believe in Hell), just a thought.

The only way we hear of Hell is through the Bible. The Bible is supposedly the word of God. Satan and God are supposedly [im]mortal enemies...

so why would God say anything particularly nice about? God wouldn't want anyone to turn over to the dark side, so Hell would be presented in the worst possible light. It's not exactly an unbiased view.

Also, why would Satan torture souls? If he's really waging some sort of eternal war againt the Creator, then why would he carry out God's will by torturing His enemies (or just people that never heard of Him). Naw, Satan would try to bring those lost souls over to his side. Perhaps by all the hedonistic activities the Old Testament God despises.

I know I'm thinking of the more pop-culture version of Hell when I spit out this logic. Dante's version of Hell wouldn't be applicable to this logic. I'm not sure if the Biblical Hell is run by Lucifer himself or just a place set up to contain him.

I have often thought about that very thing. The bible often contridicts itself.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but lasttime I checked Lucifer was banished from his position as arch angel to the bottomless pit for 1000 years. If so, then the way he is supposadely waging his eternal war would seem to be through temptation on earth. If you believe in god, I don't think he's that cruel as to destroy those unfortunate enough to be born of another religion. If he only sent Lucifer down for a thousand years, would he really send wicked people down for eternity?

quote:Originally posted by Metal_Demon:

Well, In the bible it says "He who believes in me shall have everlasting life, and not perish" or something to that degree.

But, it also says "and the smoke of their TORMENT shall rise up FOR EVER AND EVER.

Notice the "for ever and ever" and "torment". To have torment means that you are alive, and this would mean that the people in hell also live for all eternity.



Having said this, I think that if there is a hell, this is what happens:

1. You are resurected on Judgement Day.

2. You are not a spirit, you are a body of flesh and bone.

3 You Stand before God.

4 If you get sent to heaven, good job.

5. If you get sent to hell, it probably won't be eternal torment. What it will probably be is just the End. It will be the complete and utter death of your spirit. There will be nothing but blackness, but you will not remember what once was, because you simply DO NOT EXIST. The lake of fire will kill your resurected body, but it will also finish your spirit off and your time on the universe will be done.



This has probably been said before, but I felt I had to share it.

-MD

the bible also states that those who stand before the second coming of christ and are believers but are fearful will be cast into the river of flame with the antichrist and his followers

it also states that when Michael defeated the great dragon(satan) he cast him down to earth with his angels(followers) wouldnt this mean that those on earth may just be the once before followers of satan

it says that jesus on his second coming will unleash seven trumpet horns sending out terror and torment on his believers and those who dont believe in his name on the 5 or 6 he grants 4 angels and 200 million angel army to kill 1/3 of the earths population those who believe will be resurected at the end to serve with him

what i dont understand is the jewish stance with the 144,000 amount of space where did it say that but i know with the coming of the antichrist most of his power will be placed upon israel(gods chosen nation as it states) at the end of his 7 year reign jesus will be resurrected

punkrawkerstonershit

please read this :-

Matthew 13

41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Metal_Demon

That is basicly the Jehovah witness apporach to hell

i can't remember what happens when you die but i do know it's possible to experience something akin to dante's hell. i don't know how judgement works but i have seen some of the possible outcomes. not pretty.

Dante's inferno is entirely fictional and most modern hellviews are heavily based around it.

"Abandon hope, all ye who enter here.".

sure, but my experience was most readily described as such..funny old universe.

Correct conclusion, okay reasoning, fucked-up main premise. The Bibke is mostly lies, one of the biggest that a loving god would come up with anything as horrible as hell.

The concept of hell was concocted by the priesthood/power elite to keep the common people oppressed and in line.

If you beleve in strict christian dogma one must accept the idea that every human born on the planet before christ is condemmed to hell, because only through the sacrifice of christ could man be redeemed and enter heaven. I find this hard to accept that god would damn millions of people through no fault of their own.