MoneyBoxers14
2003-09-06, 00:06
on AIM. Here is the entire text, I don't know if it's interesting to you all though, but just incase:
ICjuggaloP15: it's me Joey
ICjuggaloP15: wassup
ClownJuggalo154: wassup
ClownJuggalo154: Juggalo?
ICjuggaloP15: I'm mostly on pickleflibber
ClownJuggalo154: ahh
ClownJuggalo154: I don't listen to much ICP
anymore.
ClownJuggalo154: I was down with the God thing untill I stopped believing in God, then their music mostly lost whatever it had.
ICjuggaloP15: oh really?
ClownJuggalo154: yeah
ICjuggaloP15: do you believe in God now?
ClownJuggalo154: no
ICjuggaloP15: why not?
ClownJuggalo154: Let me ask you some questions
ICjuggaloP15: ok
ClownJuggalo154: Do you believe those people who said they could clone babys and had that wierd ass religion about light are stupid or ignorant?
ICjuggaloP15: Yes why?
ClownJuggalo154: Stupid or Ignorant, not yes or no
ICjuggaloP15: Both
ICjuggaloP15: stupid and ignorant
ClownJuggalo154: They are different
ICjuggaloP15: why do you ask
ClownJuggalo154: Stupid is smacking yourself in the hand with a hammer when you know it will hurt.
ClownJuggalo154: Ignorant is never having seen a hammer and having no idea that it will hurt.
ICjuggaloP15: they are stupid
ClownJuggalo154: Because they know better?
ICjuggaloP15: yeah
ClownJuggalo154: They know better than what?
ICjuggaloP15: they think that they can clone babies, whenever they have never proven it. They said they did, but there is no real proof.
ClownJuggalo154: I was talking about their religion, not the babies. I used the babies so you reckognized them.
ClownJuggalo154: My point is there are so many different religions because religion wasn't always there, people created it. When someone creates something, it will be copied and that's why there are so many religions. What makes yours right?
ClownJuggalo154: God, Satin, Angels...characters. In a book.
ICjuggaloP15: brb
ClownJuggalo154: k
ICjuggaloP15: back
ICjuggaloP15: go ahead
ClownJuggalo154: k
ClownJuggalo154: Think about what you know about your religion.
ClownJuggalo154: You know it's "right".
ClownJuggalo154: But why? Because your preacher says so? Because you were brought up to think that?
ICjuggaloP15: nope
ICjuggaloP15: it's in the Bible
ClownJuggalo154: A book.
ClownJuggalo154: Do you believe Harry Potter is a real wizard?
ICjuggaloP15: no
ClownJuggalo154: Thats a book, just as good as the bible. The bible is older, is all.
ICjuggaloP15: but the bible is actual history as in the history books at school. I think you believe in George Washington
ICjuggaloP15: right?
ClownJuggalo154: We have proof of George Washington.
ICjuggaloP15: we have proof of the bible too
ClownJuggalo154: We have things written, used, lived in, worn and drawn by him himself. Not "eye witness" accounts and testimonials that he exists.
ICjuggaloP15: same with some of the stories in the bible
ClownJuggalo154: Yeah, and Harry Potter uses a quill. Quills exist.
ClownJuggalo154: Doesn't mean Harry Potter does.
ICjuggaloP15: exactly. Quills do exist. George Washington used them. lol
ClownJuggalo154: yeah
ClownJuggalo154: Religion is one of the earliest forms of Government Joey.
ClownJuggalo154: People made it up to keep idiots in line. Then the idiots had children and tought them about it, then the children had children, their children had children, passed on to another village, Times 4,000 years.
ICjuggaloP15: You know where they got the stories?
ClownJuggalo154: Imagination.
ClownJuggalo154: Realistic Fiction.
ICjuggaloP15: because 4,000 years ago, Jesus was there, and so were people
ClownJuggalo154: 4,000 years ago was 2,000 years BEFORE jesus. BC.
ICjuggaloP15: well in that case 2,000 years later, ancestors passed and people were still with Jesus either way
ClownJuggalo154: All the things that Jesus did, people can do now. David Blane does the same shit every day joey.
ICjuggaloP15: but magic always has a trick to it
ClownJuggalo154: Jesus was a magician, not a messiah. Messiahs don't exist.
ClownJuggalo154: you got it
ClownJuggalo154: RELIGION is the fucking trick.
ICjuggaloP15: back then, God wasn't afraid to let Jesus, his son be with people on earth. He did, however, have his son die on the cross for our sins. He ended up coming back, and finally went back to Heaven. Which is why he doesn't show up today
ClownJuggalo154: "Which is why he doesn't show up today"
ClownJuggalo154: politics
ClownJuggalo154: They make excuses for everything.
ClownJuggalo154: You are going on with the knowledge that a God exists. From the bible, a book which only form of proof that it is true lies within....the bible.
ICjuggaloP15: If I could, I'd go up to the meuseum of Natural History in New York, and hand you proof, that somewhere, sometime, some powerful being once lived on this earth, but all I can do is try to tell you
ClownJuggalo154: Joey god doesn't exist. Everyone would like to believe that there is an invisible father figure in the sky watching out for them, but the fact is we are not that important. We are born, then we live, then we die. We don't "move on" we die. We stop existing.
ClownJuggalo154: You read a book. If you believe everything in the book is true than you can't see my point. Abandon the bible for 5 minutes and look at it all.
ICjuggaloP15: I understand what you're trying to say. even though I might not be able to change your feelings about this, and you may not be able to change mine, I don't want our friendship to end over some stupid talk
ClownJuggalo154: lol
ClownJuggalo154: I'm not talking about ending our friendship man, damn. It's just a conversation.
ClownJuggalo154: I don't believe in religion, but that doesn't mean I won't be freinds with religious people.
ICjuggaloP15: I know. But ya just can't tell expressions over the internet dammit
ClownJuggalo154: It doesn't change anything between us, It was just a debate
ClownJuggalo154: lol
ICjuggaloP15: I know. But I didn't know how you felt
ClownJuggalo154: Its just the way I see it.
ICjuggaloP15: I understand completely
ClownJuggalo154: It scares you doesn't it? The possibility of no god. That's why your having a hard time contemplating it.
ICjuggaloP15: yeah sort of
ClownJuggalo154: That's normal, completely.
ClownJuggalo154: The little voice in the back of your head that says "What if I'm wrong?"
ICjuggaloP15: there are possibilities, but I choose to think it while I'm still here
ICjuggaloP15: yeah really
ClownJuggalo154: That's another trick of the bible. That is how christianity spread so fast, people who knew others were "smarter" and they were scared for themselves and thier children about this place called Hell; so they adopted what they thought was right.
ClownJuggalo154: Believe me and you will be rewarded beyond your dreams for eternity, don't believe me and you will burn in hell for all eternity?
ClownJuggalo154: That will make anyone think twice.
ICjuggaloP15: yeah sure does
ClownJuggalo154: So much of that exists in the bible.
ClownJuggalo154: Rewards for the believers and Hell for the non-believers.
ICjuggaloP15: yeah
ClownJuggalo154: It's like teaching a dog to sit.
ICjuggaloP15: I know you won't budge, but just think to yourself, if there is a God, and if people do burn in hell, where am I going?
ICjuggaloP15: I know you don't want to, but come on. You're not scared are you?
ClownJuggalo154: I am scared.
ClownJuggalo154: But I also trust myself completely.
ICjuggaloP15: and it is scary too. But you should try.
ClownJuggalo154: Try what?
ICjuggaloP15: think to yourself for at least five minutes out of your day
ICjuggaloP15: about ti
ICjuggaloP15: it*
ClownJuggalo154: Religion? I know I would feel better. It's like pretending everyone you are speaking to is in their underwear. It's not true but it makes you feel better about it so you do it. Then you teach your children to do it too, because you care about them enough to not want them to feel terrible.
ICjuggaloP15: make yourself believe for five minutes that it is very real, and what could happen
ClownJuggalo154: I believed for a while.
ClownJuggalo154: And yeah I was happier.
ClownJuggalo154: But I would rather see the truth.
ICjuggaloP15: I don't blame you, but wouldn't you rather spend your life a happy person, than someone who waits for their life to end?
ClownJuggalo154: I don't wait for my life to end. You know why?
ClownJuggalo154: Becuase it's called the end for a reason.
ClownJuggalo154: Religion is like thinking you have all day to finish a test you really only have 15 minutes on.
ICjuggaloP15: how?
ClownJuggalo154: So instead of getting your work done you spend your time convincing other people that they have all day too.
ClownJuggalo154: There is no afterlife.
ClownJuggalo154: You only have now.
ICjuggaloP15: ok but out of the subject of God, do you believe in ghosts, or poltergiests?
ClownJuggalo154: no
ICjuggaloP15: and what if some time, you saw one, and didn't know how to explain it?
ICjuggaloP15: not that you will probably
ClownJuggalo154: I would believe in what I saw.
ClownJuggalo154: I wouldn't write a book saying ghosts exist and anyone who said different was going to be tortured when they died.
ICjuggaloP15: ok, and if God was standing right in front of you and told you he was God, and you knew it, would you believe it?
ClownJuggalo154: How would I know it?
ClownJuggalo154: Your still holding on to that belief that God exists
ICjuggaloP15: well, if God was in front of you, you'd probably know it, just as you would a ghost or a poltergiest. The question is, how would you know that it was a ghost
ClownJuggalo154: I'm not trying to "convert" you, I just want you to see what I see. I've seen what you see.
ICjuggaloP15: I see what you see
ClownJuggalo154: No offence Joey.
ClownJuggalo154: But if you saw what I see, you wouldn't be able to believe in god
ICjuggaloP15: I understand what you see
ICjuggaloP15: If I were to see what you see, which I do, I would have a choice, on what to believe in
ClownJuggalo154: It's not what to believe in. There is nothing to believe in.
ClownJuggalo154: Because there is nothing THERE.
ICjuggaloP15: ok but you really never answered my wuestion, if he was standing in front of you, and you knew, would you believe then?
ICjuggaloP15: question*
ClownJuggalo154: Yes joey, I would believe then.
ClownJuggalo154: But the fact is that will never happen.
ICjuggaloP15: and what if it did
ICjuggaloP15: ?
ClownJuggalo154: ClownJuggalo154: Yes joey, I would believe then.
ICjuggaloP15: because you never know. Anything can happen
ClownJuggalo154: according to you...anything can happen, right?
ICjuggaloP15: anything can happen. we just don't have the knowledge as to when, or where, or to whom it will happen to
ClownJuggalo154: Anything accept God not existing, right?
ICjuggaloP15: you said it! except God not existing. which means he could anytime. we just don't know
ClownJuggalo154: Joey, we have just as much proof that the boogieman exists as we do of god.
ClownJuggalo154: Do you want to worship the boogiman?
ICjuggaloP15: I've seen the boogieman under my bed...........lol just shitting ya
ClownJuggalo154: lol
ClownJuggalo154: let me try something.
ClownJuggalo154: Say I believe Harry Potter is a real person.
ClownJuggalo154: How can you prove me wrong?
ICjuggaloP15: no because as far as we know anything can happen. I may have disbeliefs that he is real, but ya never know. I don't believe it now, but like I said, anything can happen. I wouldn't be surprised it I farted and exploded, came back to life, and did it over again three more times, and then said "yadda da da bing badda badda"!
ClownJuggalo154: lo
ClownJuggalo154: What if there were 5 billion people who Believed in Harry Potter, but no one had seen him?
ClownJuggalo154: What if they had gatherings to discuss the book?
ICjuggaloP15: If sometime I felt he was real, then yes. all because I wouldn't know that he wasn't, and I would want my life to be happy while it is
ClownJuggalo154: Let me ask you one question.
ClownJuggalo154: Why do you believe in God?
ICjuggaloP15: I knew someone who surpressed a sneeze, and one of his eyes popped out. I never thought anything like that could happen
ICjuggaloP15: I believe in God for a reason
ClownJuggalo154: ...
ICjuggaloP15: a very good reason that if I told you, you would laugh and try to make believe that it wasn't real, which I know very well that it was
ICjuggaloP15: make me believe*
ClownJuggalo154: You saw god, huh
ICjuggaloP15: no I didn't
ClownJuggalo154: Joey people can be tricked.
ClownJuggalo154: People's minds can trick them.
ICjuggaloP15: I know whenever I'm hallucinating, and I wasn't
ICjuggaloP15: I've hallucinated many times before, and this was different
ICjuggaloP15: way different
ClownJuggalo154: What kind of God is your god?
ICjuggaloP15: as in?
ClownJuggalo154: as in what kind of God is your god?
ICjuggaloP15: My God is a realistic being like no other, that has the power to do anything. and make anything happen, for a reason. A being that is everything. Us, earth, space, anything. It's not some old guy sitting in a throne in a place in space called heaven
ICjuggaloP15: that would just be stupid
ClownJuggalo154: Religion was stupidity. Religion IS ignorance.
ClownJuggalo154: You believe in a higher power joey, not god.
ICjuggaloP15: a higher power. Look up God in some dictionaries. "a higher power......"
ClownJuggalo154: The dictionary is a book joey.
ClownJuggalo154: Some person wrote the dictionary. Probably a christian.
ICjuggaloP15: yes and I believe that if there is a higher power, we can call it "the God" and hopefully, this higher power can take us to a better place
ClownJuggalo154: That is why so many people believe. People all over believe it so they incorporate it into their work, which is seen as "fact" by other people.
ClownJuggalo154: There is no better place.
ClownJuggalo154: This is the only place.
ICjuggaloP15: how do you know. Have you ever been there?
ClownJuggalo154: have you?
ICjuggaloP15: I have not, but there are other worlds out there, and I can prove it
ClownJuggalo154: ...
ICjuggaloP15: do you believe in the nine planets?
ICjuggaloP15: mars, jupiter, venus?
ICjuggaloP15: etc
ClownJuggalo154: yes.
ClownJuggalo154: I have seen them.
ClownJuggalo154: People have seen them.
ClownJuggalo154: I can go to the hubble
telescope and look at them myself.
ICjuggaloP15: we call earth a world. there are nine other worlds we know of, and there can be so much more out there that we have never seen. People in Greece believed in "gods" of these planets that they have never seen. Now you tell me, are these planets, not the "gods", real?
ClownJuggalo154: I don't believe in other beings.
ClownJuggalo154: I do however, consider it.
ICjuggaloP15: I said planets. yes or no
ClownJuggalo154: Yes, I believe in planets.
ICjuggaloP15: which we can call other worlds. I'm not saying that there is a better place in the middle of space, but space had to have been created by something, and that better place is where everything was first created
ClownJuggalo154: Why does everything have to be created by something?
ClownJuggalo154: Why can't everything just exist?
ICjuggaloP15: well if thats the case, then tell me why everything just exists
ICjuggaloP15: don't know that now do we?
ICjuggaloP15: my point exactly
ClownJuggalo154: Why was everything created?
ClownJuggalo154: Don't know? Your point again.
ClownJuggalo154: I don't have any of the answers and I'll tell you the truth. The difference between me and Religion is religion pretends to know.
ICjuggaloP15: God aka the higher power, does things for a reason, and believe that in that better place are the answers to all of our quetions. but for now, we shouldn't take a chance, and blow it if it is real
ICjuggaloP15: and I believe*
ClownJuggalo154: Religion is a cloak that makes you believe that there is a chance.
ClownJuggalo154: Read the book "Illusions" by Richard Bach.
ClownJuggalo154: " cannot conceive of a God who rewards or punishes his creatures, or has a will of the type which we are conscious in ourselves".
ICjuggaloP15: we just don't know, but it goes a long way, and if by any chance, there is a higher power and a heaven, I'm not gonna blow it. just like the guy with one eye missing. He didn't know that it was going to happen, but chose to surpress the sneeze, instead of embarrasing himself, and look what happened.
ClownJuggalo154: But the sneeze is real.
ClownJuggalo154: The choice is not.
ICjuggaloP15: If there isn't a God, I will find out when I die. But hey, you gotta admit, it's better to live a happy life, and actually go to a better place, if there is, and if theres not, you still lived a happy life.
ClownJuggalo154: Your afraid. If there is no god then you die no matter what you do and the same thing happens. If you believe in god, then there is a chance for a wonderfull heavenly afterlife.
ClownJuggalo154: You think your happy.
ICjuggaloP15: If you belive in God, you have the chance to go to Heaven or just die. If you don't, you have the chance to just die and be forgotten.
ClownJuggalo154: We are all forgotten anyways.
ClownJuggalo154: YOU STILL WONT ABANDON THAT BELIEF.
ClownJuggalo154: Think for five seconds.
ICjuggaloP15: no offense, but did you forget your grandpa?
ICjuggaloP15: NO
ClownJuggalo154: No I didn't.
ClownJuggalo154: But i'm going to die
ICjuggaloP15: exactly
ClownJuggalo154: And who will be here to remember?
ICjuggaloP15: And you won't be forgotten
ClownJuggalo154: Eventually I will.
ICjuggaloP15: you have friends, family, and a life for now
ClownJuggalo154: I don't feel bad about it, everyone is forgotten. That is why now is so important. TOO important to me; to live my life believing a lie.
ICjuggaloP15: it doesn't matter if you forget yourself, because you're already dead
ClownJuggalo154: There we go.
ClownJuggalo154: That's the kind of thinking I wanted you to do.
ICjuggaloP15: and even if you're in a better place or not, you will forget yourself
ICjuggaloP15: other people won't
ClownJuggalo154: Untill they die.
ClownJuggalo154: If someone dies and can't remember themselves, how can they remember me?
ICjuggaloP15: when they die, and if there is a better place, everyone will be happy, they won't need to remember anything, or anyone. And it won't matter, or hurt anyone else. If there isn't a better place, then everything begins all over again. people die, and people don't forget until they die. But we don't know that as a fact. Our answers are in heaven if there is a heaven. Either way, we'll know. And thats why people should believe in a higher power until they find out. Because if they never do, it will eventually be
ICjuggaloP15: too late andthey will never be in heaven if there is one
ClownJuggalo154: What you just said is why many people become christian.
ClownJuggalo154: The chance.
ICjuggaloP15: and you might as well, because, you never know
ClownJuggalo154: "what if, what if, what if, what if"
ClownJuggalo154: I thought exactly what you are thinking while I was christian.
ICjuggaloP15: the point is, don't blow it if there is. Because you just don't know. And it would suck ass to be the one who didn't get to go to that place, if there is one
ICjuggaloP15: you see, I don't know, but I'm prepared and happy, for whatever comes along
ClownJuggalo154: According to the rules in the bible, 90% of christians wouldn't makeit
ICjuggaloP15: how?
ClownJuggalo154: Crooked ass politicians, minor misdemeanors of the christian "law".
ICjuggaloP15: I've never heard or read that in the bible
ClownJuggalo154: Neither have I.
ClownJuggalo154: I've never read the bible.
ICjuggaloP15: if you could, try and make your life happier, and don't worry about what happens in the end until it happens
ClownJuggalo154: I will be happier knowing the truth.
ClownJuggalo154: Wouldn't you be?
ICjuggaloP15: I know that it is a possibility that it could be the truth, but I still believe in a higher power, and I'm happy, and I'm prepared to die.
ClownJuggalo154: We all are prepared to die.
ICjuggaloP15: The question is, how do we know that that is the real truth. We don't, and thats what we need to do, it to be prepared for more that one thing.
ClownJuggalo154: How do we know what is the real truth.
ClownJuggalo154: Exactly.
ICjuggaloP15: we don't until we die
ClownJuggalo154: How do you know the bible is the real truth?
ICjuggaloP15: I don't, but we might as well live happy, until we find out
ClownJuggalo154: I agree.
ClownJuggalo154: And I'm happier the way I am.
ICjuggaloP15: thank you. I g2g now but I will talk later
ClownJuggalo154: okay
ClownJuggalo154: Peace Joey
ICjuggaloP15: later man
I know that was some looooooooong shit, and I don't blame anyone for not reading it, but I just wanted to post this conversation/debate I had.
ICjuggaloP15: it's me Joey
ICjuggaloP15: wassup
ClownJuggalo154: wassup
ClownJuggalo154: Juggalo?
ICjuggaloP15: I'm mostly on pickleflibber
ClownJuggalo154: ahh
ClownJuggalo154: I don't listen to much ICP
anymore.
ClownJuggalo154: I was down with the God thing untill I stopped believing in God, then their music mostly lost whatever it had.
ICjuggaloP15: oh really?
ClownJuggalo154: yeah
ICjuggaloP15: do you believe in God now?
ClownJuggalo154: no
ICjuggaloP15: why not?
ClownJuggalo154: Let me ask you some questions
ICjuggaloP15: ok
ClownJuggalo154: Do you believe those people who said they could clone babys and had that wierd ass religion about light are stupid or ignorant?
ICjuggaloP15: Yes why?
ClownJuggalo154: Stupid or Ignorant, not yes or no
ICjuggaloP15: Both
ICjuggaloP15: stupid and ignorant
ClownJuggalo154: They are different
ICjuggaloP15: why do you ask
ClownJuggalo154: Stupid is smacking yourself in the hand with a hammer when you know it will hurt.
ClownJuggalo154: Ignorant is never having seen a hammer and having no idea that it will hurt.
ICjuggaloP15: they are stupid
ClownJuggalo154: Because they know better?
ICjuggaloP15: yeah
ClownJuggalo154: They know better than what?
ICjuggaloP15: they think that they can clone babies, whenever they have never proven it. They said they did, but there is no real proof.
ClownJuggalo154: I was talking about their religion, not the babies. I used the babies so you reckognized them.
ClownJuggalo154: My point is there are so many different religions because religion wasn't always there, people created it. When someone creates something, it will be copied and that's why there are so many religions. What makes yours right?
ClownJuggalo154: God, Satin, Angels...characters. In a book.
ICjuggaloP15: brb
ClownJuggalo154: k
ICjuggaloP15: back
ICjuggaloP15: go ahead
ClownJuggalo154: k
ClownJuggalo154: Think about what you know about your religion.
ClownJuggalo154: You know it's "right".
ClownJuggalo154: But why? Because your preacher says so? Because you were brought up to think that?
ICjuggaloP15: nope
ICjuggaloP15: it's in the Bible
ClownJuggalo154: A book.
ClownJuggalo154: Do you believe Harry Potter is a real wizard?
ICjuggaloP15: no
ClownJuggalo154: Thats a book, just as good as the bible. The bible is older, is all.
ICjuggaloP15: but the bible is actual history as in the history books at school. I think you believe in George Washington
ICjuggaloP15: right?
ClownJuggalo154: We have proof of George Washington.
ICjuggaloP15: we have proof of the bible too
ClownJuggalo154: We have things written, used, lived in, worn and drawn by him himself. Not "eye witness" accounts and testimonials that he exists.
ICjuggaloP15: same with some of the stories in the bible
ClownJuggalo154: Yeah, and Harry Potter uses a quill. Quills exist.
ClownJuggalo154: Doesn't mean Harry Potter does.
ICjuggaloP15: exactly. Quills do exist. George Washington used them. lol
ClownJuggalo154: yeah
ClownJuggalo154: Religion is one of the earliest forms of Government Joey.
ClownJuggalo154: People made it up to keep idiots in line. Then the idiots had children and tought them about it, then the children had children, their children had children, passed on to another village, Times 4,000 years.
ICjuggaloP15: You know where they got the stories?
ClownJuggalo154: Imagination.
ClownJuggalo154: Realistic Fiction.
ICjuggaloP15: because 4,000 years ago, Jesus was there, and so were people
ClownJuggalo154: 4,000 years ago was 2,000 years BEFORE jesus. BC.
ICjuggaloP15: well in that case 2,000 years later, ancestors passed and people were still with Jesus either way
ClownJuggalo154: All the things that Jesus did, people can do now. David Blane does the same shit every day joey.
ICjuggaloP15: but magic always has a trick to it
ClownJuggalo154: Jesus was a magician, not a messiah. Messiahs don't exist.
ClownJuggalo154: you got it
ClownJuggalo154: RELIGION is the fucking trick.
ICjuggaloP15: back then, God wasn't afraid to let Jesus, his son be with people on earth. He did, however, have his son die on the cross for our sins. He ended up coming back, and finally went back to Heaven. Which is why he doesn't show up today
ClownJuggalo154: "Which is why he doesn't show up today"
ClownJuggalo154: politics
ClownJuggalo154: They make excuses for everything.
ClownJuggalo154: You are going on with the knowledge that a God exists. From the bible, a book which only form of proof that it is true lies within....the bible.
ICjuggaloP15: If I could, I'd go up to the meuseum of Natural History in New York, and hand you proof, that somewhere, sometime, some powerful being once lived on this earth, but all I can do is try to tell you
ClownJuggalo154: Joey god doesn't exist. Everyone would like to believe that there is an invisible father figure in the sky watching out for them, but the fact is we are not that important. We are born, then we live, then we die. We don't "move on" we die. We stop existing.
ClownJuggalo154: You read a book. If you believe everything in the book is true than you can't see my point. Abandon the bible for 5 minutes and look at it all.
ICjuggaloP15: I understand what you're trying to say. even though I might not be able to change your feelings about this, and you may not be able to change mine, I don't want our friendship to end over some stupid talk
ClownJuggalo154: lol
ClownJuggalo154: I'm not talking about ending our friendship man, damn. It's just a conversation.
ClownJuggalo154: I don't believe in religion, but that doesn't mean I won't be freinds with religious people.
ICjuggaloP15: I know. But ya just can't tell expressions over the internet dammit
ClownJuggalo154: It doesn't change anything between us, It was just a debate
ClownJuggalo154: lol
ICjuggaloP15: I know. But I didn't know how you felt
ClownJuggalo154: Its just the way I see it.
ICjuggaloP15: I understand completely
ClownJuggalo154: It scares you doesn't it? The possibility of no god. That's why your having a hard time contemplating it.
ICjuggaloP15: yeah sort of
ClownJuggalo154: That's normal, completely.
ClownJuggalo154: The little voice in the back of your head that says "What if I'm wrong?"
ICjuggaloP15: there are possibilities, but I choose to think it while I'm still here
ICjuggaloP15: yeah really
ClownJuggalo154: That's another trick of the bible. That is how christianity spread so fast, people who knew others were "smarter" and they were scared for themselves and thier children about this place called Hell; so they adopted what they thought was right.
ClownJuggalo154: Believe me and you will be rewarded beyond your dreams for eternity, don't believe me and you will burn in hell for all eternity?
ClownJuggalo154: That will make anyone think twice.
ICjuggaloP15: yeah sure does
ClownJuggalo154: So much of that exists in the bible.
ClownJuggalo154: Rewards for the believers and Hell for the non-believers.
ICjuggaloP15: yeah
ClownJuggalo154: It's like teaching a dog to sit.
ICjuggaloP15: I know you won't budge, but just think to yourself, if there is a God, and if people do burn in hell, where am I going?
ICjuggaloP15: I know you don't want to, but come on. You're not scared are you?
ClownJuggalo154: I am scared.
ClownJuggalo154: But I also trust myself completely.
ICjuggaloP15: and it is scary too. But you should try.
ClownJuggalo154: Try what?
ICjuggaloP15: think to yourself for at least five minutes out of your day
ICjuggaloP15: about ti
ICjuggaloP15: it*
ClownJuggalo154: Religion? I know I would feel better. It's like pretending everyone you are speaking to is in their underwear. It's not true but it makes you feel better about it so you do it. Then you teach your children to do it too, because you care about them enough to not want them to feel terrible.
ICjuggaloP15: make yourself believe for five minutes that it is very real, and what could happen
ClownJuggalo154: I believed for a while.
ClownJuggalo154: And yeah I was happier.
ClownJuggalo154: But I would rather see the truth.
ICjuggaloP15: I don't blame you, but wouldn't you rather spend your life a happy person, than someone who waits for their life to end?
ClownJuggalo154: I don't wait for my life to end. You know why?
ClownJuggalo154: Becuase it's called the end for a reason.
ClownJuggalo154: Religion is like thinking you have all day to finish a test you really only have 15 minutes on.
ICjuggaloP15: how?
ClownJuggalo154: So instead of getting your work done you spend your time convincing other people that they have all day too.
ClownJuggalo154: There is no afterlife.
ClownJuggalo154: You only have now.
ICjuggaloP15: ok but out of the subject of God, do you believe in ghosts, or poltergiests?
ClownJuggalo154: no
ICjuggaloP15: and what if some time, you saw one, and didn't know how to explain it?
ICjuggaloP15: not that you will probably
ClownJuggalo154: I would believe in what I saw.
ClownJuggalo154: I wouldn't write a book saying ghosts exist and anyone who said different was going to be tortured when they died.
ICjuggaloP15: ok, and if God was standing right in front of you and told you he was God, and you knew it, would you believe it?
ClownJuggalo154: How would I know it?
ClownJuggalo154: Your still holding on to that belief that God exists
ICjuggaloP15: well, if God was in front of you, you'd probably know it, just as you would a ghost or a poltergiest. The question is, how would you know that it was a ghost
ClownJuggalo154: I'm not trying to "convert" you, I just want you to see what I see. I've seen what you see.
ICjuggaloP15: I see what you see
ClownJuggalo154: No offence Joey.
ClownJuggalo154: But if you saw what I see, you wouldn't be able to believe in god
ICjuggaloP15: I understand what you see
ICjuggaloP15: If I were to see what you see, which I do, I would have a choice, on what to believe in
ClownJuggalo154: It's not what to believe in. There is nothing to believe in.
ClownJuggalo154: Because there is nothing THERE.
ICjuggaloP15: ok but you really never answered my wuestion, if he was standing in front of you, and you knew, would you believe then?
ICjuggaloP15: question*
ClownJuggalo154: Yes joey, I would believe then.
ClownJuggalo154: But the fact is that will never happen.
ICjuggaloP15: and what if it did
ICjuggaloP15: ?
ClownJuggalo154: ClownJuggalo154: Yes joey, I would believe then.
ICjuggaloP15: because you never know. Anything can happen
ClownJuggalo154: according to you...anything can happen, right?
ICjuggaloP15: anything can happen. we just don't have the knowledge as to when, or where, or to whom it will happen to
ClownJuggalo154: Anything accept God not existing, right?
ICjuggaloP15: you said it! except God not existing. which means he could anytime. we just don't know
ClownJuggalo154: Joey, we have just as much proof that the boogieman exists as we do of god.
ClownJuggalo154: Do you want to worship the boogiman?
ICjuggaloP15: I've seen the boogieman under my bed...........lol just shitting ya
ClownJuggalo154: lol
ClownJuggalo154: let me try something.
ClownJuggalo154: Say I believe Harry Potter is a real person.
ClownJuggalo154: How can you prove me wrong?
ICjuggaloP15: no because as far as we know anything can happen. I may have disbeliefs that he is real, but ya never know. I don't believe it now, but like I said, anything can happen. I wouldn't be surprised it I farted and exploded, came back to life, and did it over again three more times, and then said "yadda da da bing badda badda"!
ClownJuggalo154: lo
ClownJuggalo154: What if there were 5 billion people who Believed in Harry Potter, but no one had seen him?
ClownJuggalo154: What if they had gatherings to discuss the book?
ICjuggaloP15: If sometime I felt he was real, then yes. all because I wouldn't know that he wasn't, and I would want my life to be happy while it is
ClownJuggalo154: Let me ask you one question.
ClownJuggalo154: Why do you believe in God?
ICjuggaloP15: I knew someone who surpressed a sneeze, and one of his eyes popped out. I never thought anything like that could happen
ICjuggaloP15: I believe in God for a reason
ClownJuggalo154: ...
ICjuggaloP15: a very good reason that if I told you, you would laugh and try to make believe that it wasn't real, which I know very well that it was
ICjuggaloP15: make me believe*
ClownJuggalo154: You saw god, huh
ICjuggaloP15: no I didn't
ClownJuggalo154: Joey people can be tricked.
ClownJuggalo154: People's minds can trick them.
ICjuggaloP15: I know whenever I'm hallucinating, and I wasn't
ICjuggaloP15: I've hallucinated many times before, and this was different
ICjuggaloP15: way different
ClownJuggalo154: What kind of God is your god?
ICjuggaloP15: as in?
ClownJuggalo154: as in what kind of God is your god?
ICjuggaloP15: My God is a realistic being like no other, that has the power to do anything. and make anything happen, for a reason. A being that is everything. Us, earth, space, anything. It's not some old guy sitting in a throne in a place in space called heaven
ICjuggaloP15: that would just be stupid
ClownJuggalo154: Religion was stupidity. Religion IS ignorance.
ClownJuggalo154: You believe in a higher power joey, not god.
ICjuggaloP15: a higher power. Look up God in some dictionaries. "a higher power......"
ClownJuggalo154: The dictionary is a book joey.
ClownJuggalo154: Some person wrote the dictionary. Probably a christian.
ICjuggaloP15: yes and I believe that if there is a higher power, we can call it "the God" and hopefully, this higher power can take us to a better place
ClownJuggalo154: That is why so many people believe. People all over believe it so they incorporate it into their work, which is seen as "fact" by other people.
ClownJuggalo154: There is no better place.
ClownJuggalo154: This is the only place.
ICjuggaloP15: how do you know. Have you ever been there?
ClownJuggalo154: have you?
ICjuggaloP15: I have not, but there are other worlds out there, and I can prove it
ClownJuggalo154: ...
ICjuggaloP15: do you believe in the nine planets?
ICjuggaloP15: mars, jupiter, venus?
ICjuggaloP15: etc
ClownJuggalo154: yes.
ClownJuggalo154: I have seen them.
ClownJuggalo154: People have seen them.
ClownJuggalo154: I can go to the hubble
telescope and look at them myself.
ICjuggaloP15: we call earth a world. there are nine other worlds we know of, and there can be so much more out there that we have never seen. People in Greece believed in "gods" of these planets that they have never seen. Now you tell me, are these planets, not the "gods", real?
ClownJuggalo154: I don't believe in other beings.
ClownJuggalo154: I do however, consider it.
ICjuggaloP15: I said planets. yes or no
ClownJuggalo154: Yes, I believe in planets.
ICjuggaloP15: which we can call other worlds. I'm not saying that there is a better place in the middle of space, but space had to have been created by something, and that better place is where everything was first created
ClownJuggalo154: Why does everything have to be created by something?
ClownJuggalo154: Why can't everything just exist?
ICjuggaloP15: well if thats the case, then tell me why everything just exists
ICjuggaloP15: don't know that now do we?
ICjuggaloP15: my point exactly
ClownJuggalo154: Why was everything created?
ClownJuggalo154: Don't know? Your point again.
ClownJuggalo154: I don't have any of the answers and I'll tell you the truth. The difference between me and Religion is religion pretends to know.
ICjuggaloP15: God aka the higher power, does things for a reason, and believe that in that better place are the answers to all of our quetions. but for now, we shouldn't take a chance, and blow it if it is real
ICjuggaloP15: and I believe*
ClownJuggalo154: Religion is a cloak that makes you believe that there is a chance.
ClownJuggalo154: Read the book "Illusions" by Richard Bach.
ClownJuggalo154: " cannot conceive of a God who rewards or punishes his creatures, or has a will of the type which we are conscious in ourselves".
ICjuggaloP15: we just don't know, but it goes a long way, and if by any chance, there is a higher power and a heaven, I'm not gonna blow it. just like the guy with one eye missing. He didn't know that it was going to happen, but chose to surpress the sneeze, instead of embarrasing himself, and look what happened.
ClownJuggalo154: But the sneeze is real.
ClownJuggalo154: The choice is not.
ICjuggaloP15: If there isn't a God, I will find out when I die. But hey, you gotta admit, it's better to live a happy life, and actually go to a better place, if there is, and if theres not, you still lived a happy life.
ClownJuggalo154: Your afraid. If there is no god then you die no matter what you do and the same thing happens. If you believe in god, then there is a chance for a wonderfull heavenly afterlife.
ClownJuggalo154: You think your happy.
ICjuggaloP15: If you belive in God, you have the chance to go to Heaven or just die. If you don't, you have the chance to just die and be forgotten.
ClownJuggalo154: We are all forgotten anyways.
ClownJuggalo154: YOU STILL WONT ABANDON THAT BELIEF.
ClownJuggalo154: Think for five seconds.
ICjuggaloP15: no offense, but did you forget your grandpa?
ICjuggaloP15: NO
ClownJuggalo154: No I didn't.
ClownJuggalo154: But i'm going to die
ICjuggaloP15: exactly
ClownJuggalo154: And who will be here to remember?
ICjuggaloP15: And you won't be forgotten
ClownJuggalo154: Eventually I will.
ICjuggaloP15: you have friends, family, and a life for now
ClownJuggalo154: I don't feel bad about it, everyone is forgotten. That is why now is so important. TOO important to me; to live my life believing a lie.
ICjuggaloP15: it doesn't matter if you forget yourself, because you're already dead
ClownJuggalo154: There we go.
ClownJuggalo154: That's the kind of thinking I wanted you to do.
ICjuggaloP15: and even if you're in a better place or not, you will forget yourself
ICjuggaloP15: other people won't
ClownJuggalo154: Untill they die.
ClownJuggalo154: If someone dies and can't remember themselves, how can they remember me?
ICjuggaloP15: when they die, and if there is a better place, everyone will be happy, they won't need to remember anything, or anyone. And it won't matter, or hurt anyone else. If there isn't a better place, then everything begins all over again. people die, and people don't forget until they die. But we don't know that as a fact. Our answers are in heaven if there is a heaven. Either way, we'll know. And thats why people should believe in a higher power until they find out. Because if they never do, it will eventually be
ICjuggaloP15: too late andthey will never be in heaven if there is one
ClownJuggalo154: What you just said is why many people become christian.
ClownJuggalo154: The chance.
ICjuggaloP15: and you might as well, because, you never know
ClownJuggalo154: "what if, what if, what if, what if"
ClownJuggalo154: I thought exactly what you are thinking while I was christian.
ICjuggaloP15: the point is, don't blow it if there is. Because you just don't know. And it would suck ass to be the one who didn't get to go to that place, if there is one
ICjuggaloP15: you see, I don't know, but I'm prepared and happy, for whatever comes along
ClownJuggalo154: According to the rules in the bible, 90% of christians wouldn't makeit
ICjuggaloP15: how?
ClownJuggalo154: Crooked ass politicians, minor misdemeanors of the christian "law".
ICjuggaloP15: I've never heard or read that in the bible
ClownJuggalo154: Neither have I.
ClownJuggalo154: I've never read the bible.
ICjuggaloP15: if you could, try and make your life happier, and don't worry about what happens in the end until it happens
ClownJuggalo154: I will be happier knowing the truth.
ClownJuggalo154: Wouldn't you be?
ICjuggaloP15: I know that it is a possibility that it could be the truth, but I still believe in a higher power, and I'm happy, and I'm prepared to die.
ClownJuggalo154: We all are prepared to die.
ICjuggaloP15: The question is, how do we know that that is the real truth. We don't, and thats what we need to do, it to be prepared for more that one thing.
ClownJuggalo154: How do we know what is the real truth.
ClownJuggalo154: Exactly.
ICjuggaloP15: we don't until we die
ClownJuggalo154: How do you know the bible is the real truth?
ICjuggaloP15: I don't, but we might as well live happy, until we find out
ClownJuggalo154: I agree.
ClownJuggalo154: And I'm happier the way I am.
ICjuggaloP15: thank you. I g2g now but I will talk later
ClownJuggalo154: okay
ClownJuggalo154: Peace Joey
ICjuggaloP15: later man
I know that was some looooooooong shit, and I don't blame anyone for not reading it, but I just wanted to post this conversation/debate I had.