Thats right i went there....first of all i just wanted to start a topic that was gonna bring alot of people in. try your best to make me a believer. there is no prize just the discussion of the actuality of god himself...enjoy http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Wow.

Just, wow.

You've totally opened my eyes.

I bow down to your obviously immense intelligence.

You make me look pitiful.

ALL HAIL THE MOST WISE diturbertoxxolous(pbuh)!!!

you know what i appreciate, the fact that you didn't even post anything about it. If you wanna bash me about it then why dont you say something,...

It doesn't matter if God is real or not, what matters is a person's perception of the world around him. If somebody believes God exists, well, hell, god exists. Religion is an important aspect of daily life, though. It provides a frame work for one's actions. Instills a morality upon a chaotic system. Without a religion, or at least a comprehensive and well thought out world view, a person is liable to be a jerk. A really big jerk. A person truly and absolutely free of religion, or at least some sort of code, would see no reason to do anything but advance his own cause. That person could also be really nihilistic, believing that there is no purpose to anything he or she does, leading to terrible deppression. So! suffice to say, a religion is important. Even if God doesn't exist, it's important to believe God (or god, or gods or whatever) does.

quote:Originally posted by diturbertoxxolous:

If you wanna bash me about it then why dont you say something,...

And here I thought I did.

quote:Originally posted by diturbertoxxolous:

Thats right i went there....first of all i just wanted to start a topic that was gonna bring alot of people in. try your best to make me a believer. there is no prize just the discussion of the actuality of god himself...enjoy http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

It's been done to death.

quote:Originally posted by CheapShot:

A person truly and absolutely free of religion, or at least some sort of code, would see no reason to do anything but advance his own cause. That person could also be really nihilistic, believing that there is no purpose to anything he or she does, leading to terrible deppression.

Well I dont belive in "GOD" and I belive that this whorld in the end is meanless and emptiy inside. And also I am a realy selfdestructshon is the highist form of selfdestructshon is to put one thow meaningless lie after meanless lie. So life is what I want I like it cuz in the end its meanless. every thing we will ever do will be forgoten. So who cares. Not me. ahhah

quote:Originally posted by The Torch:

Originally posted by CheapShot:

A person truly and absolutely free of religion, or at least some sort of code, would see no reason to do anything but advance his own cause. That person could also be really nihilistic, believing that there is no purpose to anything he or she does, leading to terrible deppression.

Well I dont belive in "GOD" and I belive that this whorld in the end is meanless and emptiy inside. And also I am a realy selfdestructshon is the highist form of selfdestructshon is to put one thow meaningless lie after meanless lie. So life is what I want I like it cuz in the end its meanless. every thing we will ever do will be forgoten. So who cares. Not me. ahhah

Im not talking about cheapshot, im talking about the torch...were you drunk when you posted.......lol

i'm going to need some motivation here. packet of tootsie rolls should cover it. aw c'mon ...a craven image,then?

well, well, well, hello Kris...

what do you think you're doing here?

[This message has been edited by RIGHTEOUS IMPIETY (edited 09-25-2003).]

Why would anyone try and argue with you? So you don't believe. Big deal. You try and convince others why God DOESN'T exist.

quote:Originally posted by CheapShot:

It doesn't matter if God is real or not, what matters is a person's perception of the world around him. If somebody believes God exists, well, hell, god exists. Religion is an important aspect of daily life, though. It provides a frame work for one's actions. Instills a morality upon a chaotic system. Without a religion, or at least a comprehensive and well thought out world view, a person is liable to be a jerk. A really big jerk. A person truly and absolutely free of religion, or at least some sort of code, would see no reason to do anything but advance his own cause. That person could also be really nihilistic, believing that there is no purpose to anything he or she does, leading to terrible deppression. So! suffice to say, a religion is important. Even if God doesn't exist, it's important to believe God (or god, or gods or whatever) does.

very true, very, very true.

Except for the part where you said it's important to believe in "God." As long as everyone had a moral code to live by, the world might be a little better. But then again, there's all those religious conflicts.

I think religion causes more wars than it stops. People should live by a set of virtues or a moral code. But to each their own.

The problem is, though, that a straight out moral code is sometimes too far removed from reality. For some, it's fine, but some people need a religion to give them a context in which their moral code can be viewed. Make it more real. Also! not all religions start wars, and even if one does, it's usually only the whackos and the ignorant that start them.

You are right, though, Pill, "To each their own," man.

look, i just want to put this out there before anymore posts are...posted. Im sorry for even starting this topic, i realize that there are thousands of forums like these in the archives, it was my mistake. so i'm just taking this tiem to write a formal apology...I am sorry to all the members/viewers of totse.com and for soiling the good name of the temple of the screaming electron. And plus this is my screw up, everyone is entitled to one or two, and this is one of them...i am sorry.

Belief has nothing to do with it. The less you believe, the better off you are. I know God's there, we talk all the time.

What's to argue? If one is third-eye blind, as you appear to be, what is the point any way?

Your mind is made up, and you do not wish to be confused with facts.

quote:Thats right i went there....first of all i just wanted to start a topic that was gonna bring alot of people in. try your best to make me a believer. there is no prize just the discussion of the actuality of god himself...enjoy

You know, you could have been less of a useless motherfucker and just resorted to making pointless replies in other people's threads to increment your posting karma.

Ooh!! +1 to my post count!!

You motherfucker.

quote:Originally posted by L3d3ni:

Why would anyone try and argue with you? So you don't believe. Big deal. You try and convince others why God DOESN'T exist.

You know what I'm gonna say. We all know what I usually say to this. So just imagine me saying it, because I'm gonna be late for rhetoric.

*charges out the door*

One of my lines of thinking is this:

If it can't be proven and if there is no corroborative evidence to indicate the thing in question is true within reason, then you have absolutely positively no rational reasons whatsoever to believe in it at all.

Case closed.

awfully rationalist point of view. Belief is a fundamental part of human nature. One of many outlets for imagination

If you dont believe in God then thats your problem. Why convince you? Do we care about your afterlife?

quote:Originally posted by CheapShot:

awfully rationalist point of view. Belief is a fundamental part of human nature. One of many outlets for imagination

Indeed. And absolutely nothing more.

quote:Originally posted by CheapShot:

awfully rationalist point of view. Belief is a fundamental part of human nature. One of many outlets for imagination

Why do so many folks keep beating the dead horse of belief? The less you believe, the better off you are. Belief is Age of Pisces shoit, and the Age of Pisces is dying, but dying hard.

Then again, rationalty is fine. But do remember, we have a left brain and a right brain. The left brain is all about rationality. Those who keep harping on and on about rationality are only using half their brain.

Belief isn't dying, it's just gone through a slump, one that it's beggining to pull out of. Since the end of world war II, and probably a little before that, atheism has been gaining ground. It reached it's peak, however in the early 90s, since then there has been a progressive movement toward a more spiritual outlook on life.

Those being born after generation X don't have nearly as many of their rationalist beliefs. Sure, rationalism is great, but it is only one thought process the human mind is capable of.

Society's evolution is just that, evolution, scientific progress is increasing at an exponential rate. Our world culture, though, evolves at the same rate, and humanity is constantly striving to reach a new and higher state of mental conciousness.

The age of dogmatic religions is on it's way out, yes. However, humanity is not nearly ready to give up belief totally and I believe, in fact, that belief is on the up and up. At least for now.

quote:Originally posted by CheapShot:

If somebody believes God exists, well, hell, god exists.

I certainly hope you don't mean that literally.

quote:Even if God doesn't exist, it's important to believe God (or god, or gods or whatever) does.

That's stupid. And if it were rational to be an ass in the knowledge that God didn't exist (which it isn't), it still wouldn't be bad to do what is rational.

One view: God is not a rational entity, and so should not be discussed in rational terms... it doens't matter if God "makes sense", because he is not supposed to make sense to us. Our logic cannot possibly comprehend God. Trying to prove God does or doesn't exist is a waste of time. Belief is irrational (which is not a bad thing).

Second view: Descartes (sp?) tried to prove God's existance logically - God is an infinite, all powerful, perfect entity. Man is finite, non perfect and limited. Where would he get an idea of such an entity? Surely if man could have thought of the idea of God, God must exist. THe idea of an almighty, infinite entity could not have appeared without such entity actually existing. A man cannot just think of something that he has never had any contact with. Since our world is finite and man has concieved the idea of an infinite being, only an infinite being such as God might have laid that idea in him. (Well try to disregard my bullshit and understand what I tried to explain)

Some more shit: all those who say they don't believe in God because it's irrational - well, how many of you ever question your scientists? How many of you have ever given any thought to the fact you probably believe in the existance of the atom, despite never seeing an atom, or having any proof such a thing exists? How many of you accept the Big Bang theory without hearing ANY proog? If you doubt religion, and apply the same logic towards science, you will find yourself doubting all physics...

I don't really believe in God personally. Just wanted to give you some points to think about.

God is not rational? Then why fucking believe in him! I challenge anybody to provide me with a reason to have faith in something that almost definitely doesn't exist.

Reread my post. Descartes gave you "rational" proof that God exists. Argue with it. Others have tried to do the same in other methods. Most of it is pretty weak, though...

But anyway, if you think all the things you believe in are "rational", well I truly doubt that is true. If you believe in human morals, if you have some basic high ideal (such as being opposed to murder, or even that life is good and death is bad) - then somewhere along the line you believe in something irrational. The most basic values are ALWAYS lacking a rational explanation. Besides, who says rational is right? Why do you think human logic is so superior that it can explain anything and everything, and if something seems wrong to the human logic ("irrational"), it must not exist?

I'm not saying the idea of god doesn't make sense. I'm saying trying to provide rational proof for an irrational entity is wrong. And irrational doesn't mean stupid or nonexistant - it just means something that is outside of human logic. The universe is also beyond human logic. Many modern physics ideas do not "make sense". They say the universe is expanding constantly, but has no border.

Just think of the universe being endless. How can you even grasp the idea of infinity? Your mind can only grasp finite things... you can never really understand infinity. In a way, it is an irrational concept. Do you not believe in it because of that?

So there - both science and morals are based on assumptions that you absolutely cannot prove. Why believe in them?

Sure, the belief in a god is not rational. It's irrational to believe, however, that a rational viewpoint can explain everything there is in the universe, yet.

The scientific method, while admirable, still is not a foolproof mode of thought. It works on the belief that an idea is wrong until proven. There are, however, a lot of things we can't prove or disprove yet, so a scientific viewpoint should not be used when thinking of those matters until there is irrefutable evidence one way or another.

Take for instance, ESP. Nearly every expirement done trying to prove it has succeded, and nearly every experiment done to dissprove it has succeded. We have not yet come up with a way to test and prove everything.

A person's universe is all in their mind. A reality tunnel that belongs to that person alone. It really doesn't matter what a person sees in their tunnel, as long as they are happy and are humane in their treatment of others. For some, the easiest way to attain this is through a religion. As long as a person is a nice guy, you really shouldn't try to change them, you never know if someone will become a jerk. Even if the person is a jerk (such as people who try to force their views upon you, religous and non-religious alike) there are better ways to make them realize this.

Suffice to say! God may or may not exist, but he exists to some people. Being that each mind percieves a different universe, and that some of these minds live in a univers in which a god exists, you could say that yes, god exists.