is it all a lie did someone come up with religions to keep man good and not his natural greedy self. did someone just come up wit the bigest scam created. why is religion so important other than directing us to honesty. why is there a channel on Tv promoting GOD. why are we always straightened by a threat like "hell". all i ask is for someone to tell me if any of thi is true or just a like.

Its true, feel better?

It's a lie, feel better?

If it is a lie, it was never a conscious one.

i think it was all planned. how about you guys?

planned by who? some ancient government?

It's whatever you want it to be.

well can someone fucking explain what the hell this is all about.

Religion was the first science, back in primitive societies it was easier to say god(s) created everything then to say they didn't know how everything was created. Of course some people will do anything to get control over other people (to make them act the way that they feel they should), so they use religion to make people do what they want. Thats why there is "hell". Its a fictional punishment for nonbelievers and "sinners". The bible was a collection of stories to tell people how to act towards each other,and to explain how the earth and life was created. But it is now 2000 years out of date and yet people still refuse to let it go... so sad.

Way to go, Jesus! (Never thought I'd be posting THAT!)

If I were God, I'd be a trifle miffed over all the lies written about me in the Bible. Then again, God doesn't get miffed--part of godhood and all.

But that "I am a jealous god" stuff--gimme a break. Why not just have him say "I am a petty, vindictive, small-minded chickenshit god" and be done with it.

Sorry but, that right there is the idea isn't it?

There is one vain that runs through all religions and that in all religions seems to agree with the other. The mysticism, I can't think of a better term.

It all seems to be bought about by the troublesome little phenomena of kundalini. There are many different schools of mysticism, Kabbalahist(Jewish) Sufi(Islamic) Yogis(Eastern, mostly Buddhist and Hindu) are the most commonly known ones, but there are also many mystical treaties in Christianity, tribes in Africa dance to raise their Kundalini(they of course give it a different name but discrib it exactly the same,) many other Shaman from all parts of the world devided different methods to do the same, this isn't to meantion all of the other occult and mystical schools that have popped up all around the world since. But I don't know a lot about that side of things, mostly Yoga.

If you read the writtings of somebody like St. Therresa of Avila, you can find many similarites between her own experience and that of the Yogis. Things like hearing sounds that were inaudiable to others, like the buzzing of bees, birds singing, thunder and running streams, and that when this happened "The Sprit moves upward with great velocity." She would also spontaneuosly assume many different Yogic ansas and mudras, like standing on her head, all sorts of things, would go into trance like states where her body became ridgid and unable to be moved. And you can see by reading her writting that she came to many of the same conclusions about God and such things as did (and do) the Yogis. You will find that all religions share Heros, Saints, and sometimes Gods that all seem to manifeset very similar powers and ideas. Raising people from the dead, raising themselves from the dead, leaving no body after they've died, manifesting many different bodies at the same time (appearing in two places at once would be the easy way to say it) there bodies shining with an extremily bright luminosity, doing all sorts of things like parting seas, flying or levitating, walking on water, healing, seeing the future and the past, or things from at great distance in the present.

It seems that these things and these people are at the core of relgion world wide, it is this type of thing that gives people there faith and helps them maintain it. And in saying that you recoginse that these people (the masses) cannot do or see what they're teacher(?) can. Those in this postition can only try to replicate and maintain as best they can. This tends to lead to conflict even with the disciples of the same teacher, of the same culture, same language, within years of, or even days after the leaders death. So is it amaizing that after a few thousand years, vastly different cultures can't get along, or see that they are talking about the same God?

The Vedas say that God is one, only the wise (or men) call it by different names.

Religion has often also been used as a tool for men/women of power to get what they want, this leads to all sorts of problems, it's like uriniating in Holy Water, but you all know about this stuff.

quote:Originally posted by jdoapc:

Sorry but, that right there is the idea isn't it?

There is one vain that runs through all religions and that in all religions seems to agree with the other. The mysticism, I can't think of a better term.

It all seems to be bought about by the troublesome little phenomena of kundalini. There are many different schools of mysticism, Kabbalahist(Jewish) Sufi(Islamic) Yogis(Eastern, mostly Buddhist and Hindu) are the most commonly known ones, but there are also many mystical treaties in Christianity, tribes in Africa dance to raise their Kundalini(they of course give it a different name but discrib it exactly the same,) many other Shaman from all parts of the world devided different methods to do the same, this isn't to meantion all of the other occult and mystical schools that have popped up all around the world since. But I don't know a lot about that side of things, mostly Yoga.

If you read the writtings of somebody like St. Therresa of Avila, you can find many similarites between her own experience and that of the Yogis. Things like hearing sounds that were inaudiable to others, like the buzzing of bees, birds singing, thunder and running streams, and that when this happened "The Sprit moves upward with great velocity." She would also spontaneuosly assume many different Yogic ansas and mudras, like standing on her head, all sorts of things, would go into trance like states where her body became ridgid and unable to be moved. And you can see by reading her writting that she came to many of the same conclusions about God and such things as did (and do) the Yogis. You will find that all religions share Heros, Saints, and sometimes Gods that all seem to manifeset very similar powers and ideas. Raising people from the dead, raising themselves from the dead, leaving no body after they've died, manifesting many different bodies at the same time (appearing in two places at once would be the easy way to say it) there bodies shining with an extremily bright luminosity, doing all sorts of things like parting seas, flying or levitating, walking on water, healing, seeing the future and the past, or things from at great distance in the present.

It seems that these things and these people are at the core of relgion world wide, it is this type of thing that gives people there faith and helps them maintain it. And in saying that you recoginse that these people (the masses) cannot do or see what they're teacher(?) can. Those in this postition can only try to replicate and maintain as best they can. This tends to lead to conflict even with the disciples of the same teacher, of the same culture, same language, within years of, or even days after the leaders death. So is it amaizing that after a few thousand years, vastly different cultures can't get along, or see that they are talking about the same God?

The Vedas say that God is one, only the wise (or men) call it by different names.

Religion has often also been used as a tool for men/women of power to get what they want, this leads to all sorts of problems, it's like uriniating in Holy Water, but you all know about this stuff.

nice.

It's The Planet of the Apes.

Religion is the Apes (Ten Horned Beast #666) fooling around with science = Perdition.

"Heaven and earth will pass away but my words will not pass away."

I HATE It WHEN PEOPLE THINK WE ARE PURPOSELY BEIN LIED TOOOO!

Yes we are being lied to, but not just too make us obey the law so they can control you... blah blah blah.... they do it so people can leave in happy peace, if their was no religion people would be totaly destructive and lethargic. You wouldnt want to live in a society like that. their would be no computers or hospitols or organized trades. The reason is no one would volenteeraly(sp) research stuff that lead to that direction 50-1000 years ago. It would bassically be a dishonorable look at mankind at its worth. its our nature to be competetive and think for ourselves than others, so no one would respect another.

You should be glad that some one unifed religion to bring us to a society we see today. The world would be a horrible place with out such a thing.

DONT GET ME WRONG

I dont agree with organized religion, but do believe in a higher spiratual being that is our creator. If not i dont know... i will end with my favorite line i always end a never ending debate on religion..

...We Will All Find Out When We die...

quote:Originally posted by iAmTheLlama:

Yes we are being lied to, but not just too make us obey the law so they can control you... blah blah blah.... they do it so people can leave in happy peace,

Well, that sounds like we are being lied to with a purpose, albeit a beneficial one.

quote:if their was no religion people would be totaly destructive and lethargic.

That's a fairly big assumption, that religion is the only source of motivation and sel-preservation.

quote:You wouldnt want to live in a society like that. their would be no computers or hospitols or organized trades. The reason is no one would volenteeraly(sp) research stuff that lead to that direction 50-1000 years ago.

Research and the advancement of knowledge, while often instigated by religions, is beneficial to, and seen in, most major social structures. Society without religion would still advance its knowledge, albeit in a different direction.

quote: It would bassically be a dishonorable look at mankind at its worth. its our nature to be competetive and think for ourselves than others, so no one would respect another.

Surely regarding humans as being unable to do anything for the common good without an external religious incentive is a more dishonorable judgement of worth?

quote:You should be glad that some one unifed religion to bring us to a society we see today. The world would be a horrible place with out such a thing.

Please clarify your description of religion as 'unified'.

Also, please explain how the world would be horrible without this 'unified' religion, and why the current situation isn't horrible.

quote:DONT GET ME WRONG

I dont agree with organized religion, but do believe in a higher spiratual being that is our creator. If not i dont know... i will end with my favorite line i always end a never ending debate on religion..

...We Will All Find Out When We die...

Most of the 'benefits' of religion that you've mentioned come as a result of social organisation by a religious body.

I certainly hope we will all find out when we die. That doesn't preclude us from trying to find out before we die.

quote:Originally posted by Kikey_Kikeowitz:

If it is a lie, it was never a conscious one.

Kikey is correct. It's a lie, but it's a comforting one that arose naturally. I can think of only two examples of religious chicanery, and only one of them is concrete. The Aryans definitely scammed their conquered subjects with the caste system. Also, at least one pope is on the record as having said "It has served us well, this myth of Christ." This would seem to indicate that, at the highest levels, the clergy may have been aware of the original Nazarene sect's teachings, and ignored them.

yes its all a lie. the Bible was writtin by buisness men tryin to find a way to control people. most people think the bible was made to tell unexplained happenings. sure religion was made for that reason but not the bible. also the bible is a total rip off and everything in it and told by its preachers go against their own religion.

also heres a thought to all u church goers :

u know the holly water ? well imagine that 100 people go each mass and their are 4 masses thats 400 people each dipping their finger into the water. dont u think u could get some serious diseas if u had an open cut on ur finger and some1 with lets say aids had a cut on their finger??????

quote:Originally posted by My-Excuse:



also heres a thought to all u church goers :

u know the holly water ? well imagine that 100 people go each mass and their are 4 masses thats 400 people each dipping their finger into the water. dont u think u could get some serious diseas if u had an open cut on ur finger and some1 with lets say aids had a cut on their finger??????

i thinks so hahah kinda makes you think huh

~GS~

Then again, religion may not be a lie. Religion is nothing more than a system of beliefs. Science could even be considered a religion. They both complement each other. Some of the event described in the bible, for example, have been comfirmed by science.

quote:Originally posted by DarkFire47:

Then again, religion may not be a lie. Religion is nothing more than a system of beliefs. Science could even be considered a religion. They both complement each other. Some of the event described in the bible, for example, have been comfirmed by science.

Can you give some examples??

If god is so great, how come he lets such awful things happen to people that are GOOD and try to serve him??? I used to, but now that I see he doesn't give a damn, fuck him! I know I'm on my own, unless somebody can prove different. ~Cindy!

quote:Originally posted by CindyBrady:

If god is so great, how come he lets such awful things happen to people that are GOOD and try to serve him??? I used to, but now that I see he doesn't give a damn, fuck him! I know I'm on my own, unless somebody can prove different. ~Cindy!

That's one of the most unoriginal arguements I've ever heard...Maybe he lets bad things happen to good people in order to steer them in a certain direction because he has a plan for them in this life or the afterlife?

quote:Originally posted by DarkFire47:

Then again, religion may not be a lie. Religion is nothing more than a system of beliefs.

Which would suggest (if it is a merely a system of beliefs) that its basis is false (if it hasn't progressed beyond belief in 2000 years, there can't be much to it).

quote:Science could even be considered a religion. They both complement each other.

They're the same but they complement each other? Sorry, I don't see how that works.

And no, science and religion have very little, if anything at all, in common.

quote:Some of the event described in the bible, for example, have been comfirmed by science.

Some of the events in War and Peace have been comfirmed by science as well.

i get it it's all bullshit, evreything that says something is the cause of something else is utter bullshit. There are an eternity of variables leading to what we experience now. To shoot you and say it's soley my fault that you are dead seems logical, however, what about the person that sold me the gun or that gave him a job, or that created the gun, and so forth. This we cannot fathom it's too far away from what we regularly deal with so we ignorantly stick blame on anything we can. Then we go and call it reason and mastery over the physical world, by simply attaching blame, such as newtons action reaction principle. The problem is that our perception of the world assumes that we are separate from the universe, when it is our interaction with things that determine their behaviour.

It has not been proven to be truth, therefore I currently regard it as a lie.

I prefer logical and scientific thought. Secular humanism i guess its called. Science is not a religion; it is the anti-religion. Scientific reasoning says: take nothing on faith. thus everything must be proved; we develop theories on what we observe and apply these theories to new phenomena. Religion asks you to start with the assumption that a god or god exists; a logical fallacy. Thus, relgion is incompatible with scientific thought.

quote:Originally posted by Good Doc:

Scientific reasoning says: take nothing on faith.

The ideal, for sure.

But when you get down into the nitty gritty of how our universe works, on the lowest level possible, you have to take a lot of things on faith.

Even more basic things are not entirely proven and must be believed. For example, one must believe that carbon-14 dating is accurate to believe that dinosaurs died off 65 million years ago. After all, what is a theory, if not a belief of what you think is happening? Naturally, it can be disproven, unlike traditional theological faith, but that doesn't change my basic point.

as kikey says even science relies on faith because you don't prove things to be true in science. Science is an approximation at best, an approximation that correlates with experience, but an approximation non the less.

An approximation that has put man on the moon, in the air, under the sea, caused the atomic bomb (based on atomic theory) and is the cause of the computer we all use to visit this forum.

Sigh*for the third time religion is a belief, you cannot possibly prove it wrong or right with reason, If religion was a theory and we applied scientific reasoning than we could prove something...but then it wouldn't be a religion would it? Science is about cosmic order, Religion is about cosmic purpose, to different things, but they are connected. And really you either believe it or you don't, it can't be a lie, because there is no defined truth, which leaves us back where we started as a belief. So shut up sit down and learn. If you apply common sense you'll get it, but since most people on TOTSE don't have any....its a lost cause.

Funny, I thought reason was equivalent to common sense.

Apparently not for theists...

The Yogic Path, religion if you will, can be traveled in a scientific manner, the end result is Nirvakalpa Samadhi, if you have a Guru that has achived this state you can see Him/Her in this state from outside, no pulse no breath, though you cannot percieve what is going on in their mind, or lack there of, so this state is not something that needs to be taken on faith, only faith in what your told about what happens on the inside, when your Guru comes back to a waking state S/He can show you what to do in order to achive the same state, you work hard, you eventulay get the same state, see God, or what God is supposed to be, at least in Hinduism, then you can decide from your own knowledge.

The Kindom of Heaven is Within You

Of course this is a subjective, experience but it seems to enable people to go beyond the present laws of science (debatable.) If God is real this is as much proof as we will get for a while I think, anybody who realy wants to find out can give it a try, otherwise stop wasting your time.