1)How did God come to be? How did he get here?

2)There isnt any proof that he exists to date.

3)If God created Adam and Eve, and they were the people that started humanity, arnt we all inbred then?

4)It says in the Bible that Adam and Eve had 2 boys, but Cane went off and found a ladt and they had kids. Where did this ladt come from and if its another one of Adam and Eves kids, that fucking your sister.

5)Same thing with Noah and his family and all the animals.

6)If we are all Gods childen, why is Jesus so special and more importante?

7)If God loves us all so much no matter what we do, why would he let us burn in hell for all eternity?



8)Why are Christians so gay?

9)Why to Christians waste their life away at church?

10)Why is God such a stupid fucked up loser that he would do these things to people?

1)How did God come to be? How did he get here?

2)There isnt any proof that he exists to date.

3)If God created Adam and Eve, and they were the people that started humanity, arnt we all inbred then?

4)It says in the Bible that Adam and Eve had 2 boys, but Cane went off and found a ladt and they had kids. Where did this ladt come from and if its another one of Adam and Eves kids, that fucking your sister.

5)Same thing with Noah and his family and all the animals.

6)If we are all Gods childen, why is Jesus so special and more importante?

7)If God loves us all so much no matter what we do, why would he let us burn in hell for all eternity?

8)Why are Christians so gay?

9)Why to Christians waste their life away at church?

10)Why is God such a stupid fucked up loser that he would do these things to people?

1. God was always there idiot.

2. there isn’t proof he exists to date, well no shit, but there is no prove that he doesn’t exist now is there dipshit?

3. Sure, than we all are.

4. whats your bloody point? He found a woman, God probably made her separately

5. point being……?

6. You must be the Dumbest person I here, Jesus is GOD not a child dipshit! OMG you noob! FATHER SON AND HOLY SPIRIT the TRINITY THEY ARE ONE! DO SOME FUCKING RESEARCH, THAT’S THE FIRST THING YOU LEARN! AND IF BEING GOD WASN’T ENOUGH, HE NEVER SINNED!

7. because it is deserved, he gave fair warning, and it pains him to see us burn in hell, but God is infallible, so he cannot exempt the decree.

8. You don’t know every Christian in the world dipshit, so Shut the fuck up

9. its not a waist, its one hour a week, where they take time to think and reflect over their lives, another idiotic question, btw have you ever been to church?!

10. He doesn’t do things to people, people have free will, another thing you learn when you’re in preschool, so what we do we do to ourselves, its laws, just like when you cut yourself, you don’t say “God is doing this to me” physics is. Now shut the fuck up and sit down bitch.

You are an idiot, I can’t believe you asked this question

quote:Originally posted by paintballpunk:

1)How did God come to be? How did he get here?

2)There isnt any proof that he exists to date.

3)If God created Adam and Eve, and they were the people that started humanity, arnt we all inbred then?

4)It says in the Bible that Adam and Eve had 2 boys, but Cane went off and found a ladt and they had kids. Where did this ladt come from and if its another one of Adam and Eves kids, that fucking your sister.

5)Same thing with Noah and his family and all the animals.

6)If we are all Gods childen, why is Jesus so special and more importante?

7)If God loves us all so much no matter what we do, why would he let us burn in hell for all eternity?



8)Why are Christians so gay?

9)Why to Christians waste their life away at church?

10)Why is God such a stupid fucked up loser that he would do these things to people?

nice questions...wrong place

ask urself...let logic take over

1 - He just was

2 - That hasn't stopped millions of people.

3 - Inbreeding only increases the chance of shared genetic defficiencies being passed down to the offspring. Theoretically God would have created A+E genetically perfect (in His image etc.) and the various mutations and recessive genetic diseases came later. (so there's no harm in being inbred)

4 - Well it was either his sister or his brother.

5 - The flood's probably an analogy for something I'm far too lazy to look up, what with not being a Christian and all.

6 - He was sent here by the Lord to die + forgive us for our Sins, etc.

7 - No one has to burn in hell for eternity, if we just believe that JESUS is the LORD, etc. etc.

8 - The number of homosexual christians is directly proportional to the number of stupid questions asked on this board. Thanks a lot.

9 - Church gives 'em a sense of community, a place to share a mutual interest (belief in/worship of the LORD, etc.)

10 - If you were omnipotent, and you were sitting around in heaven, alone, and there was darkness, would you not say, "Let there be light"?

God - what a load of old bullshit

Adam and eve - what a load of old bullshit

The fucking old testament is a fucking load of shite doesnt really exist some twat made it in france

New testament has some truths but jesus existed and said he was the son of god and then robbed people - the part they left out

quote:1. God was always there idiot.

2. there isn?t proof he exists to date, well no shit, but there is no prove that he doesn?t exist now is there dipshit?

1. Can you imagine always? No. So shut the fuck up. I'm not pretending to know what happened before the big bang, but I'm also not saying that all that matter was always there and just spontaneously exploded. You, on the other hand, along with many of the religious people who don't take the time to think about things (I'm not saying none of them do, I'm sure many of them can justify their faith and I'd love to meet one one day) seem happy with the concept of 'eternity' being 'for all time' rather than 'for an immesuribly long amount of time'.

2. There is no proof that The Ugly Fish is not your God. Bow to him.

quote:Originally posted by Hammer&Sickle:

1)How did God come to be? How did he get here?

2)There isnt any proof that he exists to date.

3)If God created Adam and Eve, and they were the people that started humanity, arnt we all inbred then?

4)It says in the Bible that Adam and Eve had 2 boys, but Cane went off and found a ladt and they had kids. Where did this ladt come from and if its another one of Adam and Eves kids, that fucking your sister.

5)Same thing with Noah and his family and all the animals.

6)If we are all Gods childen, why is Jesus so special and more importante?

7)If God loves us all so much no matter what we do, why would he let us burn in hell for all eternity?

8)Why are Christians so gay?

9)Why to Christians waste their life away at church?

10)Why is God such a stupid fucked up loser that he would do these things to people?

1. God was always there idiot.

2. there isn’t proof he exists to date, well no shit, but there is no prove that he doesn’t exist now is there dipshit?

3. Sure, than we all are.

4. whats your bloody point? He found a woman, God probably made her separately

5. point being……?

6. You must be the Dumbest person I here, Jesus is GOD not a child dipshit! OMG you noob! FATHER SON AND HOLY SPIRIT the TRINITY THEY ARE ONE! DO SOME FUCKING RESEARCH, THAT’S THE FIRST THING YOU LEARN! AND IF BEING GOD WASN’T ENOUGH, HE NEVER SINNED!

7. because it is deserved, he gave fair warning, and it pains him to see us burn in hell, but God is infallible, so he cannot exempt the decree.

8. You don’t know every Christian in the world dipshit, so Shut the fuck up

9. its not a waist, its one hour a week, where they take time to think and reflect over their lives, another idiotic question, btw have you ever been to church?!

10. He doesn’t do things to people, people have free will, another thing you learn when you’re in preschool, so what we do we do to ourselves, its laws, just like when you cut yourself, you don’t say “God is doing this to me” physics is. Now shut the fuck up and sit down bitch.

You are an idiot, I can’t believe you asked this question



Hey homo&sickle, god licks dick, I saw him fuck jesus hard last night. Also if only 1 man and 1 women existed to produce a propulation, the population would reach around 16 and then die out due to retardedness. You christians are so fucking gay, when you hear the facts you relize he cant exist but you waste your life away backing that merciful faggot up.

Also, so god was always there, forever and ever, then 1 day he desided to make the universe? I smell bullshit. And if he was there forever, whats to stop a giant star from being the center of the universe forever until one day I blew up and created everything. God damn christians, you runin everything, you try to change peoples beliefes, stupid fuckers, you destroy stuff you see as "ungodly" (the piramid of giaza next to the queens tombs had a whole side of it missing from some damn christian blowing it up cuz it was "ungodly") Die you motherfuckers. Go be with your bitch and leave earth. No one likes you! Leave nonbelievers alone!

If you think about it, the theory of the big bang and evolution makes total sence if you sit down and look at the evidence and theorys and facts. The idea of god is stupid. I read the bible, its fucking bullshit. I used to go to a christian school and I couldnt stop myself from laughing during the stupid bible storys they made us watch every morning, and during church on wednesdays, I changed the words to the stupid religous song like "This fucking light of mine! Im not gonna let it shine! Put it under a bucket, YES! Im not gonna let it shine" and search the bible looking for "bad" verses. I found one that was "thou shalt eat thy dung and drink thy piss" now what kid of a god puts that in the bible.

Fuck christians!

Also its kinda stupid how you call me a "noob" because your mad that im right. Grow a dick you queer.

God exists because I say He does...

1)Consider God not as the bearded lightning bolt thrower but as the harmony that threads all things into being. If you're a science/physics man as the paterns of orbits and gravity sparked by the central point of existance(big bang) "God has a plan" is a cliche of proportions as you create and experience the life you live. A raindrop in the ocean, a color within the painting, a thought to your mind, a soul is to God.

2)I could say the same about you. All the scriptures (not just the bible) are a lot more convincing then the text dedicated to your existance. If you need proof just think how unlikely it is that, standing on the shoulder of the fallen before you, you are alive you have access to an internet containing a wealth of ideas and you have the ability to choose not to believe. Can't you see the cycles, can you not feel the current of changes within life/death love/fear?

3)Have you ever heard of a metaphor? The great truths of life can sometimes only be brought into being through symbalism and metaphors. In my opinion the story of Adam and Eve represents what we must know about ourselves to forget and be free. The snake (adam's penis) tempted eve to taste of the forbidden fruit (sex) after this they gained "knowledge" and became ashamed. The knowledge is judgement. They enjoyed it too much and eve began to think she was too fat and became insecure. Adam felt it was such a good feeling he must have been taking it from eve and did not deserve to steal such a flower from her. Society has created many fabrications of reality over the eons in which opposite sexes try to impress eachother or change into what the other wants instead of being who they are and what they want. which is who they both are and what they both want anyway.

4)again symbolism, if your going to nitpick at a stories progression to the lesson you'll never understand.

5)you just don't want to know God, do you?

6)I don't believe Jesus ever claimed to be so high above us, I actually think he said we were all God's children (including him). Jesus understood the workings of the universe far greater then anyone I've ever met or will meet. The belief of love thy neighbor is a sound one in that if we all HONESTLY treated others as we would be treated and not just said it as a cliche we'd be better off. If you look at everything from every perspective that you can you'll find yourself more at ease more peacefull then normal. This good will would in turn inspire the kindness of others so that we would help eachother as we sincerely need to.

7)I don't believe in hell as it seems you do, with the hellfire and brimstone. It just wouldn't make sense. Remember, we are all part of the "all". Ever-changing, constantly moving, orbiting within the cycles that keep everything within the balance.

8)Real christians, not people who go to church every week to feel good about themselves or feel better then the ahtiest hethans or out of fear of punishment, are not gay. They help people, especially those in need. The poor, the weak, the scared. They don't try to force their beliefs on others, they don't make a big to-do about the dogma installed into their faith, they make every attempt to love unconditional, and make the world a better place. If you only knew my mom.

9)because they don't feel they are wasting their lives. Why do you waste your life away complaining about a group of people with well-meaning values on an internet message board. They feel their saving peoples souls, I suppose you feel you're saving peoples minds. The truth is most people are wasting their lives. In their jobs, pipe dreams, drugs, everything. Perhaps life is pointless anyway, but why not try to make a difference?

10)What is it exactly that God is doing to people? People are starving because PEOPLE are greedy and feel the need to live comfortably instead of helping those in need survive. There is hate in the world because PEOPLE can't accept the fact that people think differently then they do.

You are the creator, star, and audience to the greatest show in existance...your life Do with it what you will, but remember people may doubt what you say but never what you do.

Heh. "The old testament may make Christianity look totally stupid, but that's because it's all... umm... metaphors. Yeah."

you're not a very good story teller are you? Life is nothing but a story told by an idiot. Music must seem stupid to you because it's got um......metaphors. Who would read your story?

quote:Originally posted by paintballpunk:

1)How did God come to be? How did he get here?

2)There isnt any proof that he exists to date.

3)If God created Adam and Eve, and they were the people that started humanity, arnt we all inbred then?

4)It says in the Bible that Adam and Eve had 2 boys, but Cane went off and found a ladt and they had kids. Where did this ladt come from and if its another one of Adam and Eves kids, that fucking your sister.

5)Same thing with Noah and his family and all the animals.

6)If we are all Gods childen, why is Jesus so special and more importante?

7)If God loves us all so much no matter what we do, why would he let us burn in hell for all eternity?



8)Why are Christians so gay?

9)Why to Christians waste their life away at church?

10)Why is God such a stupid fucked up loser that he would do these things to people?

1) No one has the answer to that question.

2)THat's not a question.

3 and 4 and 5) When we speak of the past with the original family of adam and eve, there are a few things to consider. One, Cain and Abel may not have been their only children. That and it's quite possible that the Human body was not so apt to the now dangerous and often nasty consequences of inter-family breeding. As the human race spread and grew, over a many thousand years, the fact was that hybrid breeding (breeding between two different types of the same species) became a naturally better way of making children. Thus, over a continuing evolution, the better method was used. We're all still related, and we're all just a tiny bit inbred. If you go through everybodies' first cousin, and go on in a chian, you will eventually reach every single human being.

6) The fact that Jesus is so glorified and made out to be the greatest figure in mankind is because men wrote the bible, and men are an emulating animal. Jesus himself was humble. Supposedly.

7) God does not cast down the wicked to hell. The individual is given the choice, rather a series of choices, that leads them to heaven or to hell if either really exists. We were given free will. GOd would rather see you in joy than see you in pain, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be punished for evil.

8) Most christians aren't gay. SOdomy is directly adressed as wrong in the bible. (SOmething to do with Soddam and Gommorah.)

9) Church, like most establishments that are as old or as powerful, cling to tradition. It provides a place for all peoples who go to church a chance to be enlightened, a place to confess, and a place to repent. Anywhere where someone can come out guilt-free is a place that would appeal to humans.

10)What God does and why he does it - if he exists - is beyond anyone's comprehension. TO demand that a person give answers they don't have and destroy them because they don't is painfully ignorant. The difference to be understood is that there are people who find answers for some things, but not all. That's why there is faith. Faith is not directlyrelated to religion - faith is everywhere. Whether you have faith that your best friend will pull out of a coma or whether you have faith that the Simpsons will still be on even though the baseball game is running late on Fox, all people know faith. It's simply an attempt at beleiveing that something that is really is and that something that will happen will happen.



I'm not a christian. I am of no religion, indepent belefis, or cultisans. But Even I, a general heathen, would rather defend a God I don't beleive in against your stupidity and hatred rather than let it prevail.

Alright, time to rip you in half again……1st off, you wrote random shit that I don’t care about.

2. Yeah they would die out probably but maybe you didn’t realize that the bible is figurative? Guess not you idiot. “backing that merciful faggot up” Oh, I’m glad you agree that he exists. God was always there, depends on how you look at it, your thinking of some mystifying force that is a he? Well, God could be anything, like Chi in the Chinese belief. Yes we are running everything, and it’s best you don’t threaten us because than we’d just kill you, and I’m sure you’d enjoy that. So we destroyed something, oh boo hoo, We’ve done a shitload worse, namely the crusades, shows how thick you are, deaths are more important than pyramids, well anyway, I don’t know where you got that idea from, I haven’t heard of it yet. “No one likes you!” you mean you don’t like us, well frankly we don’t like you either, and since we have the nukes and you don’t I’d shut your face up if I were you, since we Christians gave you the right to speak your mind. You read the bible, oh bravo, I doubt it, because you would have known it was figurative dip-shit. And actually, big bang does not make total sense, scientists are even questioning that theory; I also find it amusing how you used to make fun of church songs, and laugh crazily… well guess what? I did the exact same thing, I got suspended a few times because I would declare crusades against second graders in the name of Christ, and had kids follow me through, just for the hell of it. By the way, your comebacks are weak as hell, plus, I suggest that you lay off the homophobe shit, because 1. Christians hate you 2. Gays hate you and I am positive that despite the fact Catholics don’t like Gays they will join together to murder you. Cheers Hammer and Sickle,

P.S. if you had half a brain you would know that my name traces to Soviets who were communists who didn’t believe in religion…I’m just toying with you, and I love to see you squirm under my iron fist. Oh yeah, I’m not mad, I’m laughing at your stupidity, and I think you might know that I have a 12 inch long rod that I use daily on chicks.

And guess what, your in the category with Hitler, non-believer! Haha!

quote:Originally posted by Hammer&Sickle:

Well, God could be anything, like Chi in the Chinese belief.

He could be a small Finnish man living in my ventilation ducts, too. Doesn't mean he is.

quote:since we have the nukes and you don’t I’d shut your face up if I were you, since we Christians gave you the right to speak your mind.

Ah, Christian love is a beautiful thing.

And it wasn't *Christians* who crusaded for things like the right to speak your mind, it was *people*.

quote:You read the bible, oh bravo, I doubt it, because you would have known it was figurative dip-shit.

Which parts are figurative? Adam and Eve? Noah? The whole of Genesis? The Exodus? Heaven and Hell? The Gospels?

How do you decide what is figurative and what isn't?

quote:And guess what, your in the category with Hitler, non-believer! Haha!

"Therefore, I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work."

-- Adolf Hitler

Jeffrey Dahmer was a Christian.

Of course, who does or does not believe something has no bearing on whether or not that thing is true. That must be decided entirely on the basis of evidence (which, sorry to say, Christianity is severely lacking).

quote:1)How did God come to be? How did he get here?

time is not infinite. this is something most people can't comprehend. time only exists because matter/space exists.

quote:Of course, who does or does not believe something has no bearing on whether or not that thing is true. That must be decided entirely on the basis of evidence

you're relying too much on your human senses. actually, convinving yourself or believing in something is exactly what makes it true. if more people think something is true, does that make it any more true? no. the only reason we believe anything exists is because we have convinced ourselves they exist.

take a blind man that was born without sight, born without any knowledge of the concept of sight. he has no real reason to believe sight even exists. he could be standing right in front of a huge monolith, or right below a huge anvil. as long as those objects weren't giving off a smell, a sound, and as long as the man wasn't tasting or touching it, he wouldn't believe the objects even existed.

we're bound by our senses. evolution will cure that problem, however.

The blind man could always make sounds and listen for echos. He may not know what the object is, but he can be sure that something exists there. Religion is quite different, because there is no 'echo' per se. The only way we could ever realize religion's truth or fallacies would be to die. I'd rather live answering to myself, and worry about death once I'm dead, than hope my beliefs are correct in this life and devote my life towards my beliefs. There is no reason to believe in religion other than hope, and I have plenty of hope WITHOUT religion.

These ramblings brought to you by the good folk Adam and his NyQuil/Zinfandel mixtures http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:The blind man could always make sounds and listen for echos. He may not know what the object is, but he can be sure that something exists there.

that's exactly what religion is. god is the object. we can't really be sure what is out there or anything really about it, but we have a sense that something is there.

(my reference to god is not the christian version, so don't be the typical atheist and assume that when i say god, i mean christianity. when i say god, i mean whatever supreme force exists in the universe. whether it be a god, or the universe itself)

I'm not the typical atheist, so don't worry. I'm atheist in the sense that I refuse to bow down to a god whether they exist or not, therefor I don't put faith in a god, but whether I think one exists or not, that's entirely different. I've seen no reason to believe one exists, but I'm always open to the idea of one or more existing. I'm also interested in hearing about why you think there's a collective human mind. Knowledge is power...may as well become as much of a God as I can by learning as much as I can.

quote:Originally posted by Hammer&Sickle:

Alright, time to rip you in half again……1st off, you wrote random shit that I don’t care about.

2. Yeah they would die out probably but maybe you didn’t realize that the bible is figurative? Guess not you idiot. “backing that merciful faggot up” Oh, I’m glad you agree that he exists. God was always there, depends on how you look at it, your thinking of some mystifying force that is a he? Well, God could be anything, like Chi in the Chinese belief. Yes we are running everything, and it’s best you don’t threaten us because than we’d just kill you, and I’m sure you’d enjoy that. So we destroyed something, oh boo hoo, We’ve done a shitload worse, namely the crusades, shows how thick you are, deaths are more important than pyramids, well anyway, I don’t know where you got that idea from, I haven’t heard of it yet. “No one likes you!” you mean you don’t like us, well frankly we don’t like you either, and since we have the nukes and you don’t I’d shut your face up if I were you, since we Christians gave you the right to speak your mind. You read the bible, oh bravo, I doubt it, because you would have known it was figurative dip-shit. And actually, big bang does not make total sense, scientists are even questioning that theory; I also find it amusing how you used to make fun of church songs, and laugh crazily… well guess what? I did the exact same thing, I got suspended a few times because I would declare crusades against second graders in the name of Christ, and had kids follow me through, just for the hell of it. By the way, your comebacks are weak as hell, plus, I suggest that you lay off the homophobe shit, because 1. Christians hate you 2. Gays hate you and I am positive that despite the fact Catholics don’t like Gays they will join together to murder you. Cheers Hammer and Sickle,

P.S. if you had half a brain you would know that my name traces to Soviets who were communists who didn’t believe in religion…I’m just toying with you, and I love to see you squirm under my iron fist. Oh yeah, I’m not mad, I’m laughing at your stupidity, and I think you might know that I have a 12 inch long rod that I use daily on chicks.

And guess what, your in the category with Hitler, non-believer! Haha!

Dude, im not just saying this...but how old are you? Seriously, by the quality of your post, Id give you 11.

You love to see me squirm under your iron fist? Are you gay?

You have a 12in rod you use daily on "chicks"? Drawing pictures on your hand doesnt count kid. Also, a 12in Christian penis cant match up to a 48in Atheist penis. See, god does suck dick, he doesnt want you to sin with ugly fat nasty girls.

And the fact that you said "haha" after you said that im catigorized with hitler and that im a nonbeliever, prooves that your 9.



Also, you wish you pound hot chicks, to bad they dont want to fuck you...To bad, maybe you can kill yourself and ask one of those lovely angles up thurr, they have to be nice to everybody, even tho they hate your 2 incher.

And one more thing, that fact that you say that you have all the "nukes" makes you a fucking pussy and a loser. You strike me as one of those stupid little faggot kids that cant stop talking about the amry, wars, gun, and all kinds of stupid bombs. Not to mention "snipers". You fucking loser, come here and fight me you pussy.



And if god does exist, let him strike me down right now. Il post back in a couple days you tell you im still alive.

L8r pussy.

^Yea and the fact that you want to "rip me in half" prooves that you are gay.

quote:Originally posted by paintballpunk:



Also if only 1 man and 1 women existed to produce a propulation, the population would reach around 16 and then die out due to retardedness.

Oh wait, according to Christianity, God created man in his image, so it follows that Adam and Eve were genetically perfect. Mutations did not appear until long after.

quote:Originally posted by CesareBorgia:

Oh wait, according to Christianity, God created man in his image, so it follows that Adam and Eve were genetically perfect. Mutations did not appear until long after.

Oh wait, "genetically perfect" is a meaningless phrase.

quote:Originally posted by kevinboyd:

as long as those objects weren't giving off a smell, a sound, and as long as the man wasn't tasting or touching it, he wouldn't believe the objects even existed.

Yep, and he'd be an idiot to believe they did.

The fact that you claim me to be 11 at first and than 9 shows that you can't count. Go back to school and learn some math.

Craftian, yes that finnish man in the airduct could be God, and yes we do not know. the majority of people who founded the governments that allowed freedom of speech were christian, that's all I'm saying, but of course, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, unitarians whatever, just the majority. the way you decide what is figurative and what isn't depends on you. Personally, I don't think someone who right 4 accounts of the same story for it to be figurative, but I could see someone doing that for the old testament. Either way, they are valid teachings.

quote:Originally posted by Hex of Rockford:

I'm also interested in hearing about why you think there's a collective human mind.

because the cells in your body form a collective mind, so there's a fairly good chance that that idea extends with us being like each cell.

The bible is a book, it is a story. And anyone heard of ether? That is a theory believing everything is made up of the substance ether, everything you see is just ether moving. It fit along a kind of theory where the universe is like a living entity.

"Good evening. Here is the news on Friday, the 27th of Geldof. Archeologists near Mount Sinai have discovered what is believed to be a missing page from the Bible. The page is currently being carbon-dated in Bonne. If genuine, it belongs at the beginning of the Bible and is believed to read, "To my darling Candy. All characters portrayed within this book are ficticious and any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental." The page has been universally condemned by church leaders."

-- Newsreader, Red Dwarf

[This message has been edited by jm5k (edited 01-14-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Hammer&Sickle:



1. God was always there idiot.

2. there isn’t proof he exists to date, well no shit, but there is no prove that he doesn’t exist now is there dipshit?

I've lost interest in arguing with deists for these two simple reasons. There's no proof he exists, and no proof he doesn't exist, yet somehow you believe he's there and always has been. Now I'm not close minded, I don't write off the existance of a greater force, the energy that flows through all things is blatantly real, but for fucks sake, basing your life on a story you've been told... uurrrggghh I just can't understand it, and it's impossible to have an intelligent conversation with these people. As soon as they're a little stumped they either refer to their story book or just answer it with some vague baseless reference to the perfectness of their God and his 'plan'. The thinkers in here, I urge you to give up on these people, you're not going to enlighten them, you're just going to frustrate yourself.

quote:you're not a very good story teller are you? Life is nothing but a story told by an idiot. Music must seem stupid to you because it's got um......metaphors. Who would read your story?

Yes. That's what my post was about. It was a stab at metaphors. I'm metaphoropohbic. NOTE THE QUOTES. They indicate that it wasn't me saying it, but someone else, I was pointing out that all of a sudden the Old Testament is supposed to be metaphors when at the time it was written it was probably taken as fact... interesting how people will interpret things in different ways to suit society.

As I read through the various forums and replies I am amazed at the seemingly general consensus that Christians are deluded, "moronic" and "gay" for believing in something that cannot be scientifically or logically proven. The fact is that Christianity is easier to defend than atheism. Science and logic can show the existance of God and the need for Christ as Savior. It seems that on these forums that all the atheist have the ability to tear down the beliefs of Christians, but are weak when it comes to defending their own positions. I ask...

-If there is no God, where do the objective moral values (aka absolutes) stem from? Objective moral values do indeed exist, as seen in the fact that if I murder someone in America or anywhere else on the Earth, in all civilizations throughout time, it is considered evil and is condemned. Another example, in all human interactions concerning good and evil, a higher law is appealed to, that we assume everyone holds and is aware of.

-Explain why in the past 50 years, in the study of astrophysics, that an overwhelming probability exists that in fact shows design rather than random evolution or genesis. The precision that is seen in the universe is statitically improbable from the standpoint of evolution or randomization. For example if the ratio between the electron and the proton were minutely different, there would be no life. Read the words of Stephen Hawking, "The remarkable fact is that the values of their numbers seems to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life."

Please atheist and nonthesist I challange you to defend your viewpoints.

quote:Originally posted by faithdefend:

The fact is that Christianity is easier to defend than atheism.



quote:

Science and logic can show the existance of God and the need for Christ as Savior.



Dragon in my garage (http://www.users.qwest.net/~jcosta3/article_dragon.htm)

One soon sees that the observations are consistent with their being no dragon in the garage. "No dragon in the garage" is the default position. Unless one could prove that dragon was there, then it will not be considered there.

No dragon is consistent with the evidence (nothing corroborating the dragons presence), is parsimonious, and requires the least amount of unevidenced assumptions, ad-hoc hypothesys, or otherwise awkward rationalizations to excuse the lack of evidence.

"Ignorance, therefore Dragon" is an invalid argument.

The burden of proof lies on the individual making the claim. If one cannot demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that there is a dragon in the garage, then there is no reason to even think there is one there.

One is left to wonder why anyone would ever suspect there was an invisible massless undetectable dragon in the garage, since by definition it can't be detected. There is nothing that would even suggest its presence. The argument for it's existence has been used at the cutting edge of the lunatic fringe for quite some time now, and it always fails horribly.

quote:

I ask...

-If there is no God, where do the objective moral values (aka absolutes) stem from?



Morals are relative. There is no such thing as an absolute moral standard.

quote:

Objective moral values do indeed exist, as seen in the fact that if I murder someone in America or anywhere else on the Earth, in all civilizations throughout time, it is considered evil and is condemned.



Actually, in certain african tribal regions, it was seen as a common thing. Hell, the volcano worshippers used to do it regularly to try to appease their "volcano gods" from getting angry.

Cannibalism is shunned in most cultures, but in some it is a tradition.

Like I said before, arguments from ignorance and gap gods don't prove shit.

"We don't know everything, therefore God" or "there's still holes where science has not yet had the oppurtunity to set foot, let's jam a god or two in there and be pessimistic about future scientific progression in the hopes that those holes don't get filled" have and will always be erroneous fallacies built upon ignorance.

Doesn't the Old Testament also say that the original "characters" of the Bible lived what would be considered abnormal life spans, as in over 700 years of age?

Wouldnt that explain the whole population thing. Also the Bible also states that Adam and Eve were the first, not the last.

If you believe in all that of course.

quote:Originally posted by Dark_Magneto:

Actually, in certain african tribal regions, it was seen as a common thing. Hell, the volcano worshippers used to do it regularly to try to appease their "volcano gods" from getting angry.

Cannibalism is shunned in most cultures, but in some it is a tradition.

Like I said before, arguments from ignorance and gap gods don't prove shit.

"We don't know everything, therefore God" or "there's still holes where science has not yet had the oppurtunity to set foot, let's jam a god or two in there and be pessimistic about future scientific progression in the hopes that those holes don't get filled" have and will always be erroneous fallacies built upon ignorance.

You used a link to a very interesting article by Carl Sagan, i think he does a pretty good job explaining away God. However, read this quote by the same man, carl sagan, on the laws of nature, "It is easy to see that only a very restricted range of laws of nature are consistent with the galaxies, stars, planets, life and intelligence." where do these restricted laws come from? huh, maybe science will answer the question of how all the universe and life came through such restricted laws. if the universe exists as cause and effect, where did the first cause begin, thats a sizable hole in the scientific theory to date, maybe just big enough to fit the Ultimate Cause into.

There is no proof either way, that god exists or doesn't exist. But in logic, there is more evidence AGAINST god's being. Like if god created Adam and Eve, why would all these scientists, who've been studying this stuff for many years, say we evolved from apes? I know most of it's all based on faith from the followers(christians). I have no religion, but when I was younger my parents made me go to church, and around my freshman year in highschool, I decided it was all bullshit to me. I didn't believe in any of it. I really don't see, how people can believe stuff like, jesus parting the red sea, and him starting the 10 plagues. If Jesus parted the red sea, how come no one else has done it since? Don't you think God would have sent a second messaih a few thousand years after the other? Just to keep up the faith? I guess not. Theres a little proof, well not really PROOF, but some ideas that may change a few opinions.

wasnt it moses who parted the sea, i forgt. But anyway, i think the world should be run by athiests so we wouldnt have any of this shit. Everyone would get along and we could all not believe in god together. Pff...Jesus, what a jew.

quote:Originally posted by pulpfiction311:

wasnt it moses who parted the sea, i forgt. But anyway, i think the world should be run by athiests so we wouldnt have any of this shit. Everyone would get along and we could all not believe in god together. Pff...Jesus, what a jew.

Lots of great men/leaders were not Christians. Jackson and Franklin if i remember correctly were both agonistic.

People have associated "good morals" with Christianity, but we had those ideas way before it came around. You think that people were totally barbaric before the AD times? Sure, you had your share of barbarian tribes, but people were civil for the most part.

quote:Originally posted by pulpfiction311:

wasnt it moses who parted the sea, i forgt. But anyway, i think the world should be run by athiests so we wouldnt have any of this shit. Everyone would get along and we could all not believe in god together. Pff...Jesus, what a jew.

Yeah sure, everyone would get along great if the world were run by atheists. Hitler and Stalin were professed atheists, they did a great job ruling there country didnt they. They only order the extermination of over 10 million people combined didnt they?

quote:Originally posted by paintballpunk:

1)How did God come to be? How did he get here?

2)There isnt any proof that he exists to date.

3)If God created Adam and Eve, and they were the people that started humanity, arnt we all inbred then?

4)It says in the Bible that Adam and Eve had 2 boys, but Cane went off and found a ladt and they had kids. Where did this ladt come from and if its another one of Adam and Eves kids, that fucking your sister.

5)Same thing with Noah and his family and all the animals.

6)If we are all Gods childen, why is Jesus so special and more importante?

7)If God loves us all so much no matter what we do, why would he let us burn in hell for all eternity?



8)Why are Christians so gay?

9)Why to Christians waste their life away at church?

10)Why is God such a stupid fucked up loser that he would do these things to people?

1 He has always been around.

2 There is no proof that God himself exists. However many things in the bible have proof. Secondly, there is no proof that the big bang could have actually happened either.

3 Yes we were all inbred. However there was no sin ergo no bad genes and negative effects of imbreeding.

4 many descendants were not mentioned in genesis

5 same as three. the cycle started over.

6 Jesus is apart of the trinity. He is God.

7 A parent has to discipline there child when they do something wrong. Why can't God?

8 Why are you so gay?

9 We dont think its a waste.

10 YOu are a f***ed up loser too you know http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by faithdefend:

Hitler and Stalin were professed atheists, they did a great job ruling there country didnt they.

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

- Adolf Hitler

Does that sound like a professed atheist to you?

quote:where do these restricted laws come from? huh, maybe science will answer the question of how all the universe and life came through such restricted laws.



Good question. Currently we do not know, and unlike some people, scientists will not pretend like they do. They'll speculate, sure, but nothing definite.

I think it may all lie somewhere in the quantum sciences and possibly superstring. I'm more than likely wrong, but they are interesting ideas to explore until a better alternative surfaces.

quote:

if the universe exists as cause and effect, where did the first cause begin,



That's a loaded question. The first cause (TFC), by definition, has no cause nor nothing preceding it.

If there were something before what is identified as TFC, then that thing would be TFC and not the one after it. It's the "first" cause, and in being first there can be nothing before it.

quote:

thats a sizable hole in the scientific theory to date, maybe just big enough to fit the Ultimate Cause into.

Well, rather than retroactively shoehorn something in there, it would be to everyone's benefit in obtaining truth if we explored the evidence and then drew conclusions based on the obtained data and then see if the data supports the conclusion; rather than beginning with a foregone conclusion and then trying to find data to support the viewpoint after the fact.

"Gap, therefore god" is an intellectually bankrupt proposition. If there's anything that history has shown us, it's that gap gods have been killed by the scores as the candle of logic and reason sheds some light on the subject. Weather patterns, natural phenomena, and natural disasters were all explained before by gods due to simple ignorance, and it is with science and reason that those gap gods got eradicated.

I hope you see what I'm getting at here. When the strength of a God rests on no proof of it's own, but simply the current inability to disprove it, you have a fragile foundation at best. It's an argument from ignorance, just like the case for Zeus and Neptune and all those other Gods had back in the days when reason was scarce and superstition rampant. The more and more science reveals about the world around us, the less and less we need to employ gods to answer those unknown areas.

Man has invented the first gods ever since early civilization to explain what they don't know. Man invented the first god, and therefore the concept of god as a whole. The vanishing of those gods from the world is directly proportional to how much science has been able to explain. Advanced science is still in it's infancy and has not yet even begin to scratch the surface. If one day science was able to explain everything, there would no longer be any need for gods outside of emotional appeals, which is why I suspect many of them are still believed in today.

[This message has been edited by Dark_Magneto (edited 01-22-2004).]