remember the good old days when the Catholic church was pure and holy, rather than how it is today, where people just bash it, and don't look into it? wow, I remember the good ol' days.

The Catholic church was pure and holy? When was this?

Not in this century with the child molestation, the role it tries to play in politics and education, the banning of women from using birth control. Not in previous centuries when it charged people money to have their sins forgiven, when it burned some of the greatest minds at the stake, not when it slowed the progression of humanity and almost brought it to a standstill. When it brought justification to slavery, persecution, torture, and genocide. What more can I say?

And a few quotes to go along with this:

"I am convinced that some political and social activities and practices of the Catholic organizations are detrimental and even dangerous for the community as a whole, here and everywhere. I mention here only the fight against birth control at a time when overpopulation in various countries has become a serious threat to the health of people and a grave obstacle to any attempt to organize peace on this planet."

-Albert Einstein, letter, 1954

"During many ages there were witches. The Bible said so. The Bible commanded that they should not be allowed to live. Therefore the Church, after doing its duty in but a lazy and indolent way for 800 years, gathered up its halters, thumbscrews, and firebrands, and set about its holy work in earnest. She worked hard at it night and day during nine centuries and imprisoned, tortured, hanged, and burned whole hordes and armies of witches, and washed the Christian world clean with their foul blood. Then it was discovered that there was no such thing as witches, and never had been. One does not know whether to laugh or to cry."

-Mark Twain, Bible Teaching and Religious Practice essay, "Europe and Elsewhere", 1923

"It is now quite lawful for a Catholic woman to avoid pregnancy by a resort to mathematics, though she is still forbidden to resort to physics or chemistry."

-H.L. Mencken

"We would be 1,500 years ahead if it hadn't been for the church dragging science back by its coattails and burning our best minds at the stake."

-Catherine Fahringer

"To affirm that the Sun ... is at the centre of the universe and only rotates on its axis without going from east to west, is a very dangerous attitude and one calculated not only to arouse all Scholastic philosophers and theologians but also to injure our holy faith by contradicting the Scriptures"

-Cardinal Bellarmino, 17th Century Church Master Collegio Romano, who imprisoned and tortured Galileo for his astronomical works

quote:Originally posted by icecold:

The Catholic church was pure and holy? When was this?

Not in this century with the child molestation, the role it tries to play in politics and education, the banning of women from using birth control. Not in previous centuries when it charged people money to have their sins forgiven, when it burned some of the greatest minds at the stake, not when it slowed the progression of humanity and almost brought it to a standstill. When it brought justification to slavery, persecution, torture, and genocide. What more can I say?

And a few quotes to go along with this:

"I am convinced that some political and social activities and practices of the Catholic organizations are detrimental and even dangerous for the community as a whole, here and everywhere. I mention here only the fight against birth control at a time when overpopulation in various countries has become a serious threat to the health of people and a grave obstacle to any attempt to organize peace on this planet."

-Albert Einstein, letter, 1954

"During many ages there were witches. The Bible said so. The Bible commanded that they should not be allowed to live. Therefore the Church, after doing its duty in but a lazy and indolent way for 800 years, gathered up its halters, thumbscrews, and firebrands, and set about its holy work in earnest. She worked hard at it night and day during nine centuries and imprisoned, tortured, hanged, and burned whole hordes and armies of witches, and washed the Christian world clean with their foul blood. Then it was discovered that there was no such thing as witches, and never had been. One does not know whether to laugh or to cry."

-Mark Twain, Bible Teaching and Religious Practice essay, "Europe and Elsewhere", 1923

"It is now quite lawful for a Catholic woman to avoid pregnancy by a resort to mathematics, though she is still forbidden to resort to physics or chemistry."

-H.L. Mencken

"We would be 1,500 years ahead if it hadn't been for the church dragging science back by its coattails and burning our best minds at the stake."

-Catherine Fahringer

"To affirm that the Sun ... is at the centre of the universe and only rotates on its axis without going from east to west, is a very dangerous attitude and one calculated not only to arouse all Scholastic philosophers and theologians but also to injure our holy faith by contradicting the Scriptures"

-Cardinal Bellarmino, 17th Century Church Master Collegio Romano, who imprisoned and tortured Galileo for his astronomical works

Very well said.

Yes, the Church was much purer when it was turning a blind eye to the Holocaust.

wait, that doesn't sound right...

hmm - the Inquisition?

the Crusades?

stamping out science?

I'm having a bit of trouble here, do you think you could give me an example of pureness and holiness?

quote:the good old days when the Catholic church was pure and holy, rather than how it is today, where people just bash it, and don't look into it

Uh, does this make sense?

Comparing what the Catholic church (allegedly) used to be ("pure and holy"), to what people (allegedly) now do ("people just bash it, and don't look into it"). That makes no sense.

I have must add one more quote, so here it is:

"The Roman Catholic motto is ourselves alone for fellow Roman Catholics. We must defeat all heretics (non-Roman Catholics) at the ballot box. The holy father states that negative tactics are fatal. The demands of the holy father (the pope) are that the public services should be 100% Roman Catholic soon. Care must be taken that no suspicion may be raised when Roman Catholics are secretly given more government jobs than Protestants, Jews, and other heretics."

-Australian Archbishop Gilroy, 1940

i swear there is this very seclusive catholic organisation, that gets the most intelligent belivers in the religion and puts them into the highest places in business. i heard this on the radio once, but cant remember the name of it. i mean, people moan about the masons being all secretive, yet the church has its even more secretive invite only organisation. i'll try to remember the name of this organisation....

quote:Originally posted by Hammer&Sickle:

remember the good old days when the Catholic church was pure and holy, rather than how it is today, where people just bash it, and don't look into it? wow, I remember the good ol' days.

The early Christian Church doesn't even fit your description.

I am looking at the church when christians were being fed the the lions, btw Christian church has done many a good thing but it has done a shitload of bad. It's a human organization so it will have faults. Every large organization grows corrupt, but I am talking about way back when the Catholic churches roots.

Was that before they started burning some of the greatest scientific minds at the stake, before they brought justification to slavery, persecution, torture, and genocide?

quote:Originally posted by Haddock:

Very well said.

...except he wasn't the one who said it :P

It's funny how little kids refuse any facts about how Christianity is flawed. My little brother (age 8) asked me if i believe in the Big Bang Theory today, and i explained to him what it was and how it was accurate. He said that "well not everything needs to be based on science!". This coming from a kid who does nothing but mess with his lab stuff all day. Little kids are so firm in their beliefs, but very flawed in their reasoning.

i think the "catholic" church was best when jesus was walkin around and chillin, gettin drunk and telling stories, all of which had a good morale and lesson to them and the lesson had nothing to do with controling people. the main thing jesus said was be nice, have fun, but the church twisted his teachings to turn them into mind control techniques. i could even go as far as to say the ten commandments are obsolete because of the new covenant.

10 jewish folktales--> dont do things to people that you wouldnt want done to you

i guess priests in the middle ages liked being ripped in half , and stabbed in the face with spikes...

I don't know man i'm enjoying all this currup shit that's going on in the Vatican these days. Makes me feel like a better Christian knowing that the priests have been fucking little boys makes me feel like a saint.

I dont think any of Jesus' stories has a "nice" moral to it. Disturbing is probably more accurate i.e. "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather" and all the talk of people being cast outside to where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth", and the call to people to repent and to give up their hold on worldly wealth, to suffer for the sake of the guilty when you are innocent.

I ain't seeeing no warm, fuzzy feelings.

(Gnashing is a pretty cool word though...)

quote:Originally posted by nevermind:

i swear there is this very seclusive catholic organisation, that gets the most intelligent belivers in the religion and puts them into the highest places in business.

That would be Opus Dei (http://www.mond.at/opus.dei/).

Originally founded, not by the Catholic Church, as such, but by a Spanish Catholic Priest, Josemarie Escriva (http://www.josemariaescriva.info/) first and foremost for the purpose to support General Franco and his fascists, against the Communists, during the Spanish Civil War.

Later they continued to fight Communism in general (instrumental in the fall of the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc, for example.) while also doing what you said, and thus gaining power in society, as well as within the Catholic Church.

More recently they have, finally, reached a "majority position", of sorts, in the Curia, for example, and their founder has been declared a Saint, by the Church, in the process. It should, however, be noted, that they are still "controversial", also within the Catholic Church.

FoxLeonard

[This message has been edited by FoxLeonard (edited 01-16-2004).]

Yes, before all of that, the Catholic church was a tool nothing more. The bible does not dictate "KILL ALL JEWS!" because of course, Jesus was a jew, its the people who pretend it to be apart of their religion and use it to get others to rally to their cause. You have to be amazed at the fanaticism of human beings and the destruction they can cause.