How does everyone "deal with" people of religions you either do not support or think they are totally pointless, idiotic, and stupid? Like, if you are an atheist, what is your approach around Christians? Do you riddicule them? Ignore them? I pesonally do not try to convert people towards atheism, but try to get others to realize their religion, like all religions, is flawed.

Is this after having lunch with your parents youth pastor?

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

Is this after having lunch with your parents youth pastor?

Funny. But i have avoided him thus far http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif).

As a general rule, I don't talk about religion unless someone else brings it up. Of course, once it does get brought up, I pull no punches.

A good deal of my friends are Christian, so I tend not to bring up religion at all because it's quite easy to shatter the faith of other teenagers. If ignorance or whatever they have keeps them happy through their teenage years, I have no right to take it from them. HOWEVER, if one of my friends comes to me asking about atheism, and why I don't believe, I will lay it down for them.

Ive only been in totse for a while, but every single atheist seems to rate their faith killing ability. So far i havent seen anything really convincing (ooh thats askin for trouble). Or is it just something to do with American Christians being too pragmatic, or not being able to handle questions or something?

Usually it's best to leave them to make their own realizations, since most of them are way sensitive about the subject.

around devout christians or atheists (or satanists...he he dumbasses) i usually play it like a smartass, making little comments with hidden meanings and shit like that. i dont come outright and critisize thier religion, becuase then people will think im fake and do occult for rebellion agenst organized religion. you can tell my position, but im not so blatent that people will think im fake. most other "occultists" i meet rarely know what im saying.

Occult doesn't even exist anymore because society somehow values all opinions as equal, when it is quite obvious some opinions ARE better than others. Your beliefs, no matter how personal they are and self-developed, will be accepted by about 50% of the country as 'fine to have', and the rest won't give a shit. Your beliefs are accepted and mainstream, they are not occult.

the percieved ideas behind religion is good but in actual practice, it doesn't work, the same with government and all other human created social paradigms. This is because ultimately they are all an expression of fear, which is by nature self destructive. As is evreything that is limiting, this is because humans as much as they want to deny it are utterly and completly free at their core. Morons don't understand that evreything that a person does is a choice and in that choice you are defined. Don't wanna be a thief then don't steal. Women you don't wanna be a tease, then don't tease men...etc.

quote:Originally posted by ilbastardoh:

the percieved ideas behind religion is good but in actual practice, it doesn't work, the same with government and all other human created social paradigms. This is because ultimately they are all an expression of fear, which is by nature self destructive. As is evreything that is limiting, this is because humans as much as they want to deny it are utterly and completly free at their core. Morons don't understand that evreything that a person does is a choice and in that choice you are defined. Don't wanna be a thief then don't steal. Women you don't wanna be a tease, then don't tease men...etc.

Very true.

I generally try not to think too much about atheism or nihlism because it will shatter my fragile sense of faith. I am afraid to not believe in god. Nihlism makes perfect sense to me but I really don't feel like going to hell. I think Pascal's wager states it the best. Religion is like a horse race. You bet on the horse that pays off the most with the least risk involved. If you bet on god then when you die if you were right you will go to heaven; the payoff is huge. If you're wrong and you die then you won't know it because you will have ceased to be. the risk is minimal. If you bet against god and are right then when you die you won't even have the gratification of knowing that you were right because you will be snuffed out of existence. This is almost no payoff at all. If you bet against god and are wrong, then when you die you will burn forever in hell. This is the worst possible outcome. When you look at it this way, it is a logical descision. I choose to believe in god because I'm looking out for your's truly.

quote:Originally posted by CaptainJim:

I generally try not to think too much about atheism or nihlism because it will shatter my fragile sense of faith. I am afraid to not believe in god. Nihlism makes perfect sense to me but I really don't feel like going to hell. I think Pascal's wager states it the best. Religion is like a horse race. You bet on the horse that pays off the most with the least risk involved. If you bet on god then when you die if you were right you will go to heaven; the payoff is huge. If you're wrong and you die then you won't know it because you will have ceased to be. the risk is minimal. If you bet against god and are right then when you die you won't even have the gratification of knowing that you were right because you will be snuffed out of existence. This is almost no payoff at all. If you bet against god and are wrong, then when you die you will burn forever in hell. This is the worst possible outcome. When you look at it this way, it is a logical descision. I choose to believe in god because I'm looking out for your's truly.

that's the catholic's plan. and a stupid way to live life.

quote:Originally posted by kevinboyd:

that's the catholic's plan. and a stupid way to live life.

Well said.

quote:Originally posted by kevinboyd:

that's the catholic's plan. and a stupid way to live life.

Damn Catholics. I live with them and I'm around them all of the time(Damn Catholic schools) and all they do is get drunk,mourn, then go to confession ,and the cycle starts all over. But to answer the question that was first asked I normally don't talk about religion around my christian friends. I also don't feel a need to burden those I care about with my views on Christianity. I will only talk about religion A.) When asked about my personal views or B.) In religion class to the stupid nun who knows nothing and always tells me that she'll get back to me on it and now refuses to call on me, but will call my home when I've been sick and absent from school and leave long ass messages on my answering machine.



[This message has been edited by zEsTyTuRtLe (edited 01-15-2004).]

Trying to prove others religions are flawed is very easily confused with ridicule; so, I avoid it.

Because I can talk circles around the average person about religion I generally just don't talk about it. There's no point in it. I don't care about what others believe and have no interest in swaying people one way or another, so unless there's someone I want to make feel stupid and we happen to be talking about religion, I mostly keep my opinions to myself.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Trying to prove others religions are flawed is very easily confused with ridicule; so, I avoid it.

Because I can talk circles around the average person about religion I generally just don't talk about it. There's no point in it. I don't care about what others believe and have no interest in swaying people one way or another, so unless there's someone I want to make feel stupid and we happen to be talking about religion, I mostly keep my opinions to myself.

Cheers,

Lost

That seems like a good way to do it.

some people just deserve to be aware of how stupid they are, and its easy when i, the atheist, knows more about christianity and the bible then they do. But i never bring it up myself, i wait for others to so as to appear more innocent.

first off...i dont like christianity very much at all,,,,,,and second, whoever said occult is no longer in existance, is very, very wrong, and thats not an oppinion

quote:Originally posted by CaptainJim:

I think Pascal's wager states it the best.

Pascal's Sucker Bet (http://www.jhuger.com/pascal.mv) is a logically bankrupt (http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/pascal.html) position.



[This message has been edited by Dark_Magneto (edited 01-21-2004).]

If you're doing it just for the sake of getting into heaven if heaven exist, that means that you have some level of skepticsim about the religion to begin with [otherwise you'd simply believe because you believe]. So then you're not really a believer but rather soemone whos following the religion for the sake of covering your ass.

So if you're just all about Jesus because you don't want to risk burning in hell, then you really don't accept him as your lord, which means you won't get into heaven anyways. So why bother faking it? Why not just believe what you feel is right?

quote:Originally posted by Inside_Voices:

I pesonally do not try to convert people towards atheism, but try to get others to realize their religion, like all religions, is flawed.

Everything is flawed.

Even you, genius who understands all the wonders of the cosmos, are flawed, and so are your beliefs.

But, then again, so are mine.

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

Everything is flawed.

Even you, genius who understands all the wonders of the cosmos, are flawed, and so are your beliefs.

But, then again, so are mine.

I'm not claiming to understand everything. But yes, even [i]you[\i] are flawed. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Logic has yet to disprove God, the more science i study the bigger the case for God grows. Understanding the universe doesn't disprove God because God created the universe, you're merely learning a small amount of how he did it.

Simple discourse doesn't disprove God because discourse is just words. Anything can be disproven/proven through logic. Just as i would agrue that science is the study of God's creation, philosophy/logic is the study of God's absolute truth.

The mormon church has been proven false by proving that Joseph Smith's "holy" translation abilities were fake.

http://www.carm.org/lds/ldspapyri.htm

If you want to prove Christianity false, you need to prove that Jesus didn't exist, or that he wasn't resurrected. Until then, don't pretend that all of your "knowledge" will shatter the faiths of the poor blind followers of Christianity you see every day.

Love,

_theBishop

quote:Originally posted by Inside_Voices:

How does everyone "deal with" people of religions you either do not support or think they are totally pointless, idiotic, and stupid? Like, if you are an atheist, what is your approach around Christians? Do you riddicule them? Ignore them? I pesonally do not try to convert people towards atheism, but try to get others to realize their religion, like all religions, is flawed.

you ignore them and respect the fact that everyone is entitled to their own opinion just as you are entitled to your atheist opinion. Or you look deeply into the religion and think of as many ways to disproove it and come up with a huge counter arguement.

my method is a mixture of both.

You might wish to note that there is no more proof of a God than there is proof of no God.

In order to prove Christianity true, you need to prove the existence of Jesus - and his death, and his resurrection. Note that this hasn't been done.

Essentially, no one knows the truth. All we can do is assert our beliefs and povide reasons.

Atheism seems more rational if you ask me - it doesn't claim to know everything, and doesn't assert the existance of something of which there is no proof.

I assert that God does not exist - but I welcome you to prove me wrong. If you do, I will retract my statement - but I doubt you or anyone else will.

From the short time I have visited these boards, I find that atheists are haters and christians are defenders.

And I really don't care but I pop off sometimes.

I don't criticize anybody on their beliefs. Who am I to judge somebody upon their beliefs. I don't believe in any specific religion, but I'm very spiritual. I've experienced many phenomenons in my life that have led me to a spiritual awareness. Some people never experience what I'm going through right now. Everybody is on a different spirtual level. I was an atheist at one time too.

quote:Originally posted by ENEXTIN:

I don't criticize anybody on their beliefs. Who am I to judge somebody upon their beliefs. I don't believe in any specific religion, but I'm very spiritual. I've experienced many phenomenons in my life that have led me to a spiritual awareness. Some people never experience what I'm going through right now. Everybody is on a different spirtual level. I was an atheist at one time too.

So true, I completely agree. Everthing you stated also applys to me.

You might wish to note that there is no more proof of a God than there is proof of no God.

What would convince you?

In order to prove Christianity true, you need to prove the existence of Jesus - and his death, and his resurrection. Note that this hasn't been done.

Note that every other major religion (Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, and Buddhism) all recognize that Jesus existed.

Essentially, no one knows the truth. All we can do is assert our beliefs and povide reasons.

Essentially, that does nothing to assuage the fact that there is, in fact, an absolute truth.

Atheism seems more rational if you ask me - it doesn't claim to know everything, and doesn't assert the existance of something of which there is no proof.

Atheism is flawed because of it's so-called rationality. It rests on the premises of science, which is conducted by cause-and-effect relationship observations. If a pragmatist can't find a cause, it presumes there never was one.

I assert that God does not exist - but I welcome you to prove me wrong. If you do, I will retract my statement - but I doubt you or anyone else will.

I repeat: what would you be looking for?

[This message has been edited by Tyrant (edited 01-25-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

What would convince you?

An omnipotent, omniscient god would know what would convince me, and be able to do it.

For the sake of argument:

1. unlikely answering of a prayer or fortunate series of coincidences would be a start; it if happened several times in a row, it could amount to sufficient proof

2. proof that people of one religion generally are more successful, have fewer bad things happen to them, etc.

3. a genuine physical miracle - regrowth of a limb, medically verified resurrection, etc. Jesus (or Shiva, or Mohammed, etc.) appearing to me wouldn't suffice because I know far too well what effects chemicals can have on the brain (both those produced by the brain and outside it)

quote:Note that every other major religion (Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, and Buddhism) all recognize that Jesus existed.

Buddhism and Hinduism make no claims about Jesus, though Buddhists and Hindus might.

Argumentum ad populum, as well.

quote:Essentially, that does nothing to assuage the fact that there is, in fact, an absolute truth.

And this assertation does nothing to show that there is, in fact, an absolute truth.

quote:If a pragmatist can't find a cause, it presumes there never was one.

Why assume there is if you can't find it, or any evidence for it?

My belief in a God, is seperate from my belief in Religion. I had some 6 atheist friends, all of whom challenged me on my faith in God. I converted every last one of them through a battle of wits. Funny thing is, I have also converted people to Atheism as well. The thing is, atheists bring up the argument on how religion is flawed, which is always true... Any organization made by flawed beings will be flawed. However, to prove that God, Nature, Spirit, is flawed is impossible, though you could probably say it is with some bullshit excuse and get away with it. I can proudly say I have converted or messed with every person of every major religion, except buddhism....that proves to be impossible for me http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif). I don't know what I'm talking about, I destroy anyones belief I desire.

quote:Originally posted by Hammer&Sickle:

I destroy anyones belief I desire.

Please, destroy my (lack of) belief. Life as a theist would be a lot easier.

I only personally know two atheists, and I'm only friends with one of them. Around everyone else I just don't bring it up. If a friend brings it up, I'll discuss it, but I don't force my beliefs, and I won't push the issue. If a friend tried to convert me, I'd rebuff them. Not too harshly. I tend to be very... gentle, around my friends. Someone I either don'tlike, or don't know (like totse) would get their shit appropriately ruined.