I have read and studied this subject quite recently, and I thought you all my throw in your ideas, opinions on this matter.

I have read some things that make me question the story of the crucifixion. They may be true or not. If anybody has more knowledge on the subject I would appreciate it.

1. The Romans used crucifixion not to execute but to punish. If he was put on a cross he would have been taken down before sundown.

2. The punishment was given on Thursday. He was crucified on Friday, and they would have had to take him down Friday night.

3. Joseph of Aramathea, took his body of the cross on Saturday, however, Joseph was Jewish and would not touch a body or do anything physical on the Sabbath according to Jewish beliefs.

4. Jews buried their own in the ground hence, "Ashes to ashes, dust to dust". Joseph would not have placed him in a tomb.



Thats just a couple of things I have been checking up on. If anybody knows of any reading material on these matters I would love to hear about them.



Constantly searching for my path to salvation.......

Yea, but the wolf in Little Red Riding Hood couldn't eat the grandma whole either. It's a story designed to inspire hope and courage...not to be taken in the manner that you are looking into it.

As I have said before, my whole point is that the bible is a work of fiction. However, his resurrection would in fact have to be a fact if you base your faith in Christianity. The other stories in the Bible either way you believe didn't have to happen to have a Christian faith, but Jesus being born, and then dying on the cross for our sins and being resurrected would have to happen.

quote:Originally posted by ckcrichie:

[B]

1. The Romans used crucifixion not to execute but to punish. If he was put on a cross he would have been taken down before sundown.

2. The punishment was given on Thursday. He was crucified on Friday, and they would have had to take him down Friday night.

3. Joseph of Aramathea, took his body of the cross on Saturday, however, Joseph was Jewish and would not touch a body or do anything physical on the Sabbath according to Jewish beliefs.

4. Jews buried their own in the ground hence, "Ashes to ashes, dust to dust". Joseph would not have placed him in a tomb.

[B]

Here is what i have found through study and research:

1. The crucifixion of Christ was indeed a death sentence. Pilate asks the Jewish leaders what he should do with Christ and they replied,"By our laws He ought to die because he called himself the Son of God

" (John 19:7)

2.,3. Jesus did indeed die on Friday night and was taken of the grave that night. It says,"The Jewish leaders did not want the victims there the next day, which was the Sabbath so they asked Pilate to hasten the deaths."(John 19:31) When the soldiers went to Jesus they found him already dead so they pierced his side. Joseph and Nicodemus took Christ off the cross that night and placed him in the tomb.

4. Placing the dead in the ground was not necessarily a Jewish tradition. The fathers of the faith, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were entombed in the cave of Machpelah, not in the ground. (Genesis 49:29-33)

As for my view, Christianity is the only religion that "fits" in the scheme of the universe. Science and logic point to a God. And Christianity answers all questions about the nature of sin, redemption, and the need for a Savior

Science?? what kind of science are you lokin at???? give me examples i say

quote:Originally posted by Chimpy:

Science?? what kind of science are you lokin at???? give me examples i say

It is the convention of many atheist and others who do not share the Christian worldview to say that science has disproven the existance of God. This is not the case, hear is one example that I used in another forum: "If you were to take the information density just in the human enzyme and analyze the complexity of information, you will come to the very quick conclusion that the possibility of that language coming together is one in ten to the forty thousandth power." This information, by Dr. Wickramasinghe of Cardiff University in Wales professor of Applied Mathematics, is just one example of the complexity and precision seen in the physical world. The atoms of the universe are only one in ten to the eighthy power. That is an enoromously small probality and points to design rather than random combination. Within the universe and the human being is seen the signature of a Creator.

If this fact from a respected scientist does not prove design than read this article from Jonathan Ante, on this website:

http://www.totse.com/en/religion/christianity/161893.html

-he does a great job examaning the facts and showing how the natural laws show God's design.

Another site is the homepage of a great Christian apologist, Ravi Zacharias, this message again uses logic and reason to show God.

http://www.gospelcom.net/rzim/publications/essay_arttext.php?id=13

-That is another great article on science and the Christian worldview. God says in his world, "The heavens declare my glory." Upon examing the heavens we see the Creator.

quote:Originally posted by faithdefend:

That is an enoromously small probality and points to design rather than random combination.

Humans didn't pop into existence from scratch, as one random combination. A human enzyme is the result of millions of years of emergent evolution.

quote:Originally posted by Chimpy:

Science?? what kind of science are you lokin at???? give me examples i say

You don't think it's odd simply viewing a sub-atomic particle changes it's true nature? That you can never truly know how it behaves?

quote:Originally posted by TigerJK:

Humans didn't pop into existence from scratch, as one random combination. A human enzyme is the result of millions of years of emergent evolution.

yeah. it never ceases to amaze me how creationists can't seem to grasp that concept.

Faithdefend........

Any other reading besides your Bible? It is a nice work of fiction. I was hoping more reading along the lines of an objective viewpoint.

quote:Originally posted by ckcrichie:

Faithdefend........

Any other reading besides your Bible? It is a nice work of fiction. I was hoping more reading along the lines of an objective viewpoint.

Try a book called the Holy Blood and the Holy Grail. The authors believe in a nutshell that Jesus didn't die on the cross and believe that they have traced his ancestor to some guy in Germany.

It's an interesting read if you can put up with it.

quote:Originally posted by TigerJK:

Humans didn't pop into existence from scratch, as one random combination. A human enzyme is the result of millions of years of emergent evolution.

The fact I am pointing out is the probability that the enzymes came toghether, even through emergent evolution. one in ten to the 40000 power. I think that something that is 1 in 10 to the 1000 power becomes so small that it is non-existant or impropable.

quote:Originally posted by bodomised:

Try a book called the Holy Blood and the Holy Grail. The authors believe in a nutshell that Jesus didn't die on the cross and believe that they have traced his ancestor to some guy in Germany.

It's an interesting read if you can put up with it.

History can not be discounted on the basis of one book. Put aside the Bible, and look at the Roman records and the finds of archelogists. History shows that in Palestine lived a man named Jesus. He was cruxified by Pilate because he claimed to be the Jewish Messiah.

Since He claimed to be the Savior one of two things must be true:

Either he was crazy and deluded, or He was the Savior.

That is the question that all must answer.

I thought the whole point was that Jesus died and suffered for our sins...

Thanks bodomised...I enjoy reading books like that. So I probably can stand it.

Faithdefend...do you know of a good starting point where I can look at Roman records that have been translated with an objective view. I have looked at some stuff a while ago but it was backed by the Catholic Church.

quote:Originally posted by ckcrichie:

Faithdefend...do you know of a good starting point where I can look at Roman records that have been translated with an objective view. I have looked at some stuff a while ago but it was backed by the Catholic Church.

Two good starting points: from a Roman perspective: The Annuls of Imperial Rome by Cornelius Tacitus

-Tacitus is considered by the majority of scholars to be a reliable source of Roman history and records. In the book he mentions the Christians and the fact that Christ was placed before Pilate to be crucified.

From a Jewish perspective, The Antiquities of the Jews by Flavis Josephus

-Josephus is Jewish historian who wrote around 75 AD. His books tell of the destruction of the temple by the Romans and the impact of the teachings of Christ.

quote:Originally posted by kevinboyd:

yeah. it never ceases to amaze me how creationists can't seem to grasp that concept.

It also never cases to amaze me how non-creationists can't seem to grasp that evolution is still as illogical and 'POP! Into existence' as creationism.

But I won't get into that. For the record, I believe evolution to be fact, and I also believe it to be a process that was created.

quote:Originally posted by faithdefend:

History can not be discounted on the basis of one book. Put aside the Bible, and look at the Roman records and the finds of archelogists. History shows that in Palestine lived a man named Jesus. He was cruxified by Pilate because he claimed to be the Jewish Messiah.

Since He claimed to be the Savior one of two things must be true:

Either he was crazy and deluded, or He was the Savior.

That is the question that all must answer.

Im not discounting history. The book was written by guys who researched the topic. Im sure they went right through "historic documnets" before coming to a conclusion that was plausable. Read then book, then make a comment.

EDIT: Although that makes you wonder. How a man back then can claim to hear the voice of God and have people believe him, why today if someone hears a voice they're insane and committed. *sigh*

EDIT: spelling



[This message has been edited by bodomised (edited 01-21-2004).]

[This message has been edited by bodomised (edited 01-21-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by bodomised:

[B] Im not discounting history. The book was written by guys who researched the topic. Im sure they went right through "historic documnets" before coming to a conclusion that was plausable. Read then book, then make a comment.

[B]

You know I could use the same argument for you. I find that the majority of people that discredit the Bible as "just fiction", or a collection of fairy tales have never in fact read it, but rather only base their conclusions on what they were told instead. If you are not in the catagory I agologize for labeling you.

quote:Originally posted by faithdefend:

You know I could use the same argument for you. I find that the majority of people that discredit the Bible as "just fiction", or a collection of fairy tales have never in fact read it, but rather only base their conclusions on what they were told instead. If you are not in the catagory I agologize for labeling you.



No i have read the Bible and still attend an Anglican school. I can see where you are coming from, the average God hating individual is an angst filled teenager with no actualy knowledge of what theyre talking about.