The First Day

The first recorded Words of God that we have are "Let there be light" (Genesis 1:3 NIV). The sun was already shining brightly, but God made the earth's thick new atmosphere allow diffuse light to penetrate to the surface. And so it was that the light was made separate from darkness. The first day of earth's creation was literally the first "day" as someone on earth's surface would experience it - a period of opaque light, and a period of darkness. (Genesis 1:3-5)

The Second Day

The separation of the waters. There was yet no liquid water, no oceans. All of the water was in the form of a vapor, a worldwide super-fog, extending a number of kilometers/miles up from the very hot (above the boiling temperature of water) bare-rock earth's surface (the earth's core remains molten right to the present day). God's "hovering over the waters" in verse 2 describes His being above that gaseous-water atmosphere, not a liquid ocean. God then caused most of the water to condense onto the cooling earth which simultaneously formed a whole-planet ocean and cleared the sky. (Genesis 1:6-8)

The Third Day

The first appearance of dry ground. The further cooling of the surface set in motion a process of natural contraction, uplifting and motion of the crust (the process continues today, called "plate tectonics"). The earth changed from a smooth one-level molten "cue ball" to a planet with an irregular surface with ocean basins and continental landmasses. With dry ground available, the first plants were made to grow in great abundance. (Genesis 1:9-13)

The Fourth Day

With the sky now clear, the sun, moon and stars were dependably visible. They were to "serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years." The sun marked the day (sunset to sunset), the moon the month (new moon to new moon), and the stars the seasons (constellations are seen in particular seasons e.g. "Orion" is visible in winter in the northern hemisphere, which is summer in the southern hemisphere). (Genesis 1:14-19)

The Fifth Day

Great numbers of birds and sea creatures. God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." (Genesis 1:20-23)

The Sixth Day

Vast numbers of land animals. Man. From the man, woman (humans today are just now discovering how to genetically alter fertilized embryos, and even to create one human from the tissue of another - known as "cloning"). (Genesis 1:24-31)

The Seventh Day

The Sabbath Day. "By the seventh day God had finished the work He had been doing; so on the seventh day He rested from all His work. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it He rested [or ceased] from all the work of creating that He had done." The day that is the basis for The Fourth Commandment. (Genesis 2:2-3)



How can this be true when we know there were life on earth millions of years before us..

what about the creatures like dinosaurus, flying dragon things and the apes we are suposevly to be in family with..

What about al of that?

It's all in there...in the Bible....if you interpret it to be so. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif) Some do, some don't. I'm not sure yet what I think.

The Fourth Day

With the sky now clear, the sun, moon and stars were dependably visible. They were to "serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years." The sun marked the day (sunset to sunset), the moon the month (new moon to new moon), and the stars the seasons (constellations are seen in particular seasons e.g. "Orion" is visible in winter in the northern hemisphere, which is summer in the southern hemisphere). (Genesis 1:14-19)

This basically says that the stars and all were created simply to aid us telling time. If thats the case, then why all the stars we'll never see? I think its pretty safe to say there are stars [and other things] out there so far away we just can't see them yet. Also, there are most likely stars we will never see, and stars that have burned out before we ever got a chance to see them. Why would God create the star, if he already knew we'd never see it and have no use for it?

I guess one could say that I don't know that we'll never see all the stars, and theres know way for me to know that there are stars that burned out before we got a chance to see them, but still, why all of them? At this pont in time we no longer need the stars to tell the time, and the stars we do need are visible to the naked eye . So why have stars [which are said to be there simply to 'mark seasons and days and years'] out so far that we will be well into a period when we no longer need the stars to tell time, before we ever see them?

Also, when did he create the stars? It says that God first created heaven and earth [though not mentioned in the first post] and then theres no mention of him creating the stars.

Genesis 1:5 goes, "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

If this was the first day, how did God do all that other stuff over the course of 4 days prior to this? If it said that God simply did the first 4, [i]then created the days and from then on mentioned him doing things by days it would make a bit more sense.

Some people interpret the the days in creation as ages instead. I say quit interpreting the bible to suit your own needs.

quote:Originally posted by noraa_boy:

Some people interpret the the days in creation as ages instead. I say quit interpreting the bible to suit your own needs.

But then what do catholics and everyone get to do for fun?

I thought that it said first there was dark then god made light, so a day begins at the start of the darkness then thru darkness into day then when it gets dark again a whole 'day' has passed.

Good God, you have too much free time on your hands to not be in a seminary.

Let's settle this once and for all. Genesis is not to be taken literally. It's all allegorical.

Why do people think heaven is in the sky? Especially since man is supposedly in a covenant with God? I mean wouldn't this put flying creatures closer to God? I'm surprised the phsychological technique used on slaves and conquered races missed that logical inconsistency...

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

Let's settle this once and for all. Genesis is not to be taken literally. It's all allegorical.

So when God came down to give his word to the people did he begin with 'Dont take this literally but.....'? Or are we just back to interpreting the bible in a way that validates it? Is the bible the word of God or not?

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

Let's settle this once and for all. Genesis is not to be taken literally. It's all allegorical.

Which parts of the bible are to be taken literally and which parts shouldn't be?

Why should we accept that you have a monopoly on that knowledge when you just claim it outright without support?

GOD CREATED THE EARTH IN SIX DAYS, we did all the work in six days then rested, ok lets repeat that, rested, he created the earth in six days then rested

The bible, or anything else that's written, cannot do anything but stir your imagination. People always want the quick answer, they seldom look for it, or bother to think for that matter. Every thing that one reads is passed through a filter of your own experience. One has absolutely no choice even though you struggle against it; you simply have to make up your own goddamned mind. Take what you will from anything, only if it serves you. A sculputist does not add to his sculpture, rather, he peels away the inessential until the final product is revealed.

the bible and religion is for creatons that cant understand the world without bringing in magic

quote:Originally posted by Fallen Angel:

The First Day

The first recorded Words of God that we have are "Let there be light" (Genesis 1:3 NIV). The sun was already shining brightly, but God made the earth's thick new atmosphere allow diffuse light to penetrate to the surface. And so it was that the light was made separate from darkness. The first day of earth's creation was literally the first "day" as someone on earth's surface would experience it - a period of opaque light, and a period of darkness. (Genesis 1:3-5)

The Second Day

The separation of the waters. There was yet no liquid water, no oceans. All of the water was in the form of a vapor, a worldwide super-fog, extending a number of kilometers/miles up from the very hot (above the boiling temperature of water) bare-rock earth's surface (the earth's core remains molten right to the present day). God's "hovering over the waters" in verse 2 describes His being above that gaseous-water atmosphere, not a liquid ocean. God then caused most of the water to condense onto the cooling earth which simultaneously formed a whole-planet ocean and cleared the sky. (Genesis 1:6-8)

The Third Day

The first appearance of dry ground. The further cooling of the surface set in motion a process of natural contraction, uplifting and motion of the crust (the process continues today, called "plate tectonics"). The earth changed from a smooth one-level molten "cue ball" to a planet with an irregular surface with ocean basins and continental landmasses. With dry ground available, the first plants were made to grow in great abundance. (Genesis 1:9-13)

The Fourth Day

With the sky now clear, the sun, moon and stars were dependably visible. They were to "serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years." The sun marked the day (sunset to sunset), the moon the month (new moon to new moon), and the stars the seasons (constellations are seen in particular seasons e.g. "Orion" is visible in winter in the northern hemisphere, which is summer in the southern hemisphere). (Genesis 1:14-19)

The Fifth Day

Great numbers of birds and sea creatures. God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." (Genesis 1:20-23)

The Sixth Day

Vast numbers of land animals. Man. From the man, woman (humans today are just now discovering how to genetically alter fertilized embryos, and even to create one human from the tissue of another - known as "cloning"). (Genesis 1:24-31)

The Seventh Day

The Sabbath Day. "By the seventh day God had finished the work He had been doing; so on the seventh day He rested from all His work. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it He rested [or ceased] from all the work of creating that He had done." The day that is the basis for The Fourth Commandment. (Genesis 2:2-3)



How can this be true when we know there were life on earth millions of years before us..

what about the creatures like dinosaurus, flying dragon things and the apes we are suposevly to be in family with..

What about al of that?

A creationist christian would dispute the fact that we "know" life existed millions of years ago because they exploit a flaw in the half-life carbon-12 dating system. supposedly according to them the Flood of noah created the fossils, and the mass burial of organic material simultaneously caused what later became rocks and fossils to have an unusually high level of carbon through leaching-thereby distorting a half life reading that presumes an original level of carbon less than what it was. Don't know if this makes sense to the average reader or not, but that's what they say. I personally find it as a very weak argument. And to the people who think the creation days were not meant to be literal: There is a hebrew word for a figurative "day" and another one for a literal 24 hour period. Genisis uses the literal 24 hour word.

Even if each day was a 1/2 billion years, the story doesn't match up. It's a nice story, imaginative indeed, but I've thought up creation stories as a child that sounded more plausible.

quote:Originally posted by noraa_boy:

Which parts of the bible are to be taken literally and which parts shouldn't be?

Anything which seems too impossible to be true is more than likely allegorical.

The stories of the -ites(Israelits, Moabides, Canaanites, etc.), while they may suffer from a few inaccuracies, are more fact than fiction.

quote:Why should we accept that you have a monopoly on that knowledge when you just claim it outright without support?

You shouldn't. What you SHOULD do, however, is ask yourself this:

The ancient people had the same DNA as us. Do you think that they'd believe that, when there are supposedly only 3 people in the world(Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel's now dead), that Cain could wander the wilderness and find a wife?

They weren't the idiots we believe them to be. If we can understand the concept of a metaphor, then they could too.

quote:Originally posted by whateva:

the bible and religion is for creatons that cant understand the world without bringing in magic

And you understand everything perfectly, right?

No unexplained phenomenon?

To me, everything is a creation. Everything science proves is not only fact, but intended from the start.

quote:Originally posted by ilbastardoh:

Why do people think heaven is in the sky? Especially since man is supposedly in a covenant with God? I mean wouldn't this put flying creatures closer to God? I'm surprised the phsychological technique used on slaves and conquered races missed that logical inconsistency...

Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

Gospel of Thomas http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

The ancient people had the same DNA as us. Do you think that they'd believe that, when there are supposedly only 3 people in the world(Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel's now dead), that Cain could wander the wilderness and find a wife?

Cain's wife was another sibling. Incest was ok since the law against it hadn't been given by God yet. Also, Adam and Eve were still pretty much genetically perfect, I think.

Anyway, it's a huge problem when everyone happens to have their own intepretations of what the bible says. I find it very difficult to have meaningful discussions when people just change the meanings to suit their arguments. If the bible is intergral to our knowledge of the Christian god and our salvation, why the fuck is it so damn complicated?

EDIT: Note that I'm not saying that the whole bible should be taken literally.



[This message has been edited by noraa_boy (edited 01-24-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by ilbastardoh:

The bible, or anything else that's written, cannot do anything but stir your imagination. People always want the quick answer, they seldom look for it, or bother to think for that matter. Every thing that one reads is passed through a filter of your own experience. One has absolutely no choice even though you struggle against it; you simply have to make up your own goddamned mind. Take what you will from anything, only if it serves you. A sculputist does not add to his sculpture, rather, he peels away the inessential until the final product is revealed.

This is my story and i'm sticking to it...

Thats what I love about christianity. If you find a flaw, its not a flaw its a metphor or something. Anything that doesn't ad up is not to be taken literally.

I still want to know; who are we to say 'this part is to be taken literally and this part is not'? Even if seeing one part as being allegorical validates it, how do you know its to be interpreted that way? Theres a million ways you could interpret the bible that would allow it to make sense but each one can't be true [obviously]. Im sure everyone has seen different people with different views on the same part of the bible, thats nothing new, but why would God do tihs? Why would he leave his own words open to so much interpretation? If he wanted us to follow this one true religion, why is it so open to interpretation?

If you read in the bible it says somewhere that 1 day to god could be hundreds of years and 1 thousand years could be a day to God. So if u use this rule it wouldnt really be seven days, but more like any random amount of time.

I got this from some people who are highly religous. I have also asked most(except the cults who think they are Christians) sects of Christianity about their thoughts, and most of them agree with me.

quote:Originally posted by SEN D-F:

Thats what I love about christianity. If you find a flaw, its not a flaw its a metphor or something. Anything that doesn't ad up is not to be taken literally.

I still want to know; who are we to say 'this part is to be taken literally and this part is not'? Even if seeing one part as being allegorical validates it, how do you know its to be interpreted that way? Theres a million ways you could interpret the bible that would allow it to make sense but each one can't be true [obviously]. Im sure everyone has seen different people with different views on the same part of the bible, thats nothing new, but why would God do tihs? Why would he leave his own words open to so much interpretation? If he wanted us to follow this one true religion, why is it so open to interpretation?



Does this mean you need someone to validate your authority? Even if you are an atheist(don't know nor do I assume you are), it means your nothing but sheep. I also never not once said I'm xian. If you want a list of my beliefs here they are: I'm my own authority and interpret the world and all things therein, however the fuck I want. I listen to what I feel and take it as truth, although I have a good dose of skeptisizm in my life I do believe a creator exists, and you are that creator and so am I, and there is no separation between you or me or anything or anyone else. It's only our biological sensory units we call bodies that limit our understanding of interconnectedness. I see this universe we "inhabit" an illusion where we represent our true selves. Picture a monopoly game, the thimble represents the real you in a game. Fuck what you heard or see this world is a game.

The bible is a book of bullshit. It was created by some wacko cult guy who wanted people to follow him. The only thing the bible is good for is making fire.

Bottom Line

quote:Originally posted by noraa_boy:

Cain's wife was another sibling.

You can't assume that, because if the ancient folks were as dumb as we say they are, they would have believed fully only what's in Genesis.

quote:I find it very difficult to have meaningful discussions when people just change the meanings to suit their arguments.

Why not have discussions on the possible meanings, then?

We can't exactly talk to the author to get the real intention, so hypothesis is the only way.

quote: If the bible is intergral to our knowledge of the Christian god and our salvation, why the fuck is it so damn complicated?

Everything is complicated.

Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

You can't assume that, because if the ancient folks were as dumb as we say they are, they would have believed fully only what's in Genesis.

I didn't claim that the ancient folks were dumb. Well, at least I think I didn't.

Anyway, you're right, I can't assume anything to be fact.

Why not have discussions on the possible meanings, then?

We can't exactly talk to the author to get the real intention, so hypothesis is the only way.

Discussions of the possible meanings are ultimately useless as you cannot be sure. The only thing to do that I see at the moment is to agree that we all have our own interpretations and that we cannot be sure who is correct.

Everything is complicated.

You have not explained why the bible is so complicated and difficult to interpret. Since you claim that everything else is complicated as well, you might as well tell me at the same time why they're complicated.

All of this crap is nothing but mythology. One could derrive as much interpretation and depth from a Bazooka Joe comic, provided you are willing to sit there and rationalize away.

quote:Originally posted by noraa_boy:

You have not explained why the bible is so complicated and difficult to interpret. Since you claim that everything else is complicated as well, you might as well tell me at the same time why they're complicated.



Give me a fucking break. You can't accept a simple and true statement that everything, short of quarks, is complicated?

Alright-y. The bible is complicated and difficult to interpret for numerous reasons. One, the many different translations may have altered the original meaning entirely. Two, the culture and mindset of the culture at the time the book was written isn't entirely knows, so for all we know, everything could be an inside gag, like us saying "Bennifer," or Shakespeare's hidden meaning of the character Banquo in Macbeth(hint: the real guy was King of England at the time.)

The reasons go on and on and on and on, and, ironically, only get more complicated.

I was pointing out that you hadn't answered my question in the first place. Your "everything is complicated" statement didn't seem like a very good explanation of why the bible is so complicated. You have more than rectified that in your latest post, so we'll just leave it at that, ok?

Depends on how you wanna look at it. I'm pretty happy seeing things as simple.

Not sure if your familiar with the Scopes Monkey Trial which took place in Tennessee 1925. There was a law in a few states which evolution could not be taught in public schools, but rather creationism had to be taught instead (yes, i know, stupid concept). At the end of the trial after being convicted he states that he wasnt an atheist, and he says, "God has no way to tell time, so to him 7 days couldve been 8 days, or a month, or a year, or 5 billion years.". I think its a good thought, but i'm atheist so i dont really care, its just somethin to think about i guess, that the bible can be interpretted in so many ways that it may never be completly understood.

i believe that the creation of the earth was written down by a more intelligent species than humans. they passed it down to us and left the planet or hid in a cave sm where. Atlanteans

Well, I'm sure you've come to that conclusion after thoroughly examining the evidence!

heres the thing that get you thinking, apparantly the first thing god made was light. The first thing, so there was light, but nothing to generate light, and nothing to reflect light. In the beginning there was nothing, and then god said 'let there be light', and there was still nothing but now everyone could see it.

quote:Originally posted by SEN D-F:

Is the bible the word of God or not?



The answer to that question, depends on who You ask. Also there are currently 26 different versions of the Bible. And for each of those 26 Bibles there are people who fanatically believe that their version is the only true version. The most popular version is the KIng James version. It is also the most edited version of the Bible.

[This message has been edited by cybermage (edited 02-15-2004).]

[This message has been edited by cybermage (edited 02-15-2004).]

Jesus, some people are thick. Really. "Woulnd't birds be closer to god..?"

KNOCK KNOCK, IS ANYTHING IN THERE?

When we use the term "closer to god" it means spiritually closer to god, so no, you are not revolutionary defying the statement that men are closer to god then animals are. Fuck.

And whats this shit I'm hearing about people declaring Genisis impossible because there was a some sort of miniscule complexity conscerning to the days? God says that he created animals then man, this was written in the bible before science was able to say dinosaurs existed, so it was just written that animals were made before men. Now listen here, God didn't write the bible either, men did. Of course god didn't say "Do not take this literally..."

Because in those days, things weren't written down, people remebered things by ear, and people passed on information and lessons through myths, people could decipher all this crap alot easier...Trust me, I'm pretty sure god didn't make the world in six days...quite alot of it is allelogical

The Bible is complicated because it was written by many people over many generations about evens both real and (seemingly) drug-induced. It's complicated because it contradicts itself, and to make the square peg fit the round hole that so many people desperately want it to you have to twist it through so many dimensions of pseudo-logic that it becomes unrecognisable from the original.

I'm a poet.

Note that the Bible uses the word "day" before the sun and moon had been created. This "day" could therefore not have been the single 24 hour period that we call a day, because the sun and the moon hadn't been created.

I read a book of quotes from the bible once, and it had a passage the said " a thousand years to us, is but a day to God".

So if one were to take this literly, then it took God 6 thousand years to create the earth, then He or She rested for another thousand years.

quote:Originally posted by prozak_jack:

The bible is a book of bullshit. It was created by some wacko cult guy who wanted people to follow him. The only thing the bible is good for is making fire.

Bottom Line

How open minded of you. The bible is a 'book'. You don't just pick up books and believe everything written in them... BUT every book can have something worthwhile that you can take from it. There are some fucken brilliant lines in Lord of The Rings which can be mapped to everyday life and very helpful, and likewise with the bible. Only ignorant fools say "it's all true" or "it's all shit". I'd gamble on the fact that you've probably read about half a page of the bible. And don't get caught up in this stupid debate over what's metaphor and what's literal, just read the fucken thing if you're interested and take out of it what you want. People have got to stop just making up all these bullshit assumptions. Analyse your world and take from it what you can, start fucken thinking instead of being so closed minded. Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see.

quote:Originally posted by Nemisis:

I read a book of quotes from the bible once, and it had a passage the said " a thousand years to us, is but a day to God".

So if one were to take this literly, then it took God 6 thousand years to create the earth, then He or She rested for another thousand years.

I think I read that same quote in a book written by W.D.Gann, a famous stockbroker who studied the Bible and many other books about hisory and cycles of the earth.