If you truely belive there is nothing more than this life, than you will be correct. For if you belive that you are nothing more than flesh & an accumulation of sensory input over a lifetime and have no further dimension, then you will cease to be just as you belive. There can be no salvation for one who has instilledd in thereself belife that upon death of the physical form they are no more. So their energey is lost to darkness & chaos. This is the meaning of hell, death nothingness, the abcesnce of energy, light, life, & conciousness, ceaseing to exist. As the one who is aware of their life energy maintains conciousness and seeks the way. Those who are unaware are lost to the dark chaos of disorder & death.

Hell sounds a lot better than Heaven then http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif) Finally get some sleep...

fuck it then, im going to start believing that im going to be god when i die then... then i will be right you fucking idiot

I'm somewhat atheist. I don't belive in god or religion but I belive in some form of an afterlife, simply becuase there seem to be more accounts of ghosts/huantings, then any proof of a god.

quote:Originally posted by whateva:

fuck it then, im going to start believing that im going to be god when i die then... then i will be right you fucking idiot

LOL, ...maybe you should.

quote:Originally posted by Ms. Death:

I'm somewhat atheist. I don't belive in god or religion but I belive in some form of an afterlife, simply becuase there seem to be more accounts of ghosts/huantings, then any proof of a god.

God can be explained many different ways. It is all in your preseption. He is not this invisable man that sits on his thrown in the clouds and passes judgement. Just many uninformed people look at it like that (I used to also). God is the essence of life the enrgy that makes up all things that binds each subatomic particle,That creates the universe, brings order to the chaos, light to the darkness. The opposites interact and creation as we know it is formed. Ancient chinses refer to this creation as the great Tao, not as an individaul entity it is simple what life is. You cannont deny the energy of life exists. It is purposful in it form. It is not random ouccurance that a being as complicated and curious as us or the universe could be formed from nothingness to what we see today without direction or intention. As for those who say it is illogical for anyone to think so. I say what are the odds of such a thing orruring purely by accident. I'm sure they are quite astronomical.



[This message has been edited by Lysergamideman (edited 02-20-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Lysergamideman:

You cannont deny the energy of life exists. It is purposful in it form.

Surprisingly, I can.

quote:I say what are the odds of such a thing orruring purely by accident. I'm sure they are quite astronomical.

as·tro·nom·i·cal

1. Of or relating to astronomy.

I'd say the universe is fairly relating to astronomy. What with the trillions of planets and stars and all.

^^^They say ignorance is bliss. So is it true?

The old Norse perception of Hell was complete and total stasis - not in the higher senses of Being, but of not moving, not growing, not learning, not producing - of not doing anything. I can see where Lysergamideman gets his theory from.

However, I don't believe that the afterlife is based on personal interpretation. It simply doesn't make any sense that, when you die, whatever happens is what you want to happen - I don't think we're allowed to choose like that.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

It simply doesn't make any sense that, when you die, whatever happens is what you want to happen - I don't think we're allowed to choose like that.

Why should you be 'allowed' to do anything? And who's doing the allowing?

It is NOT a choice. It is simply that those who KNOW this truth understand what their life is. Those who do not are lost to the abyss darkness. For those who don't get it still i'll try to put it in different terms.

Say you were locked in a dark maze with many paths all infinatly long except one which is the way out of the darkness. If you know the way before you get there you'll most likely get out, If you don't you may wonder forever eventually you'll be completly consumned in the darkness with little hope of ever seeing the light again.

Oooh, I can make analogies too!

Say you're making random crap up and believe it is absolute truth.

It is not random at all It is supported by teachings from countless culture throughout history. I simply made the analolgy, for people of of simpler mindsets to understand my original post. But If you still don't get I don't think I can make it any simpler for you. You need to exercise that mind of yours. Instead of wasting it With pointless posts. If I think of an even simpler way to put it so you can understand I will. I'm just not inclined to think with such a simple mindset as some.

Tell me this: what is purposeful about life?

quote:Originally posted by Craftian:

Tell me this: what is purposeful about life?

If you have to ask that, you need to learn much more than I have time to teach you on here.

I used to not belive in anything beyond what we see too. If you would just exercise our mind, do some reading.

I recommend reaserching, metaphysics, quantum physics, big bang theory, super string theory, ancient history, ancient religons, as many different religons an philosophies as you can. I would also recomend reading the dead sea scrolls, some on Taoism, Buhdism etc.

I appologize for the simple mind comments but people really annoy me that act like I am the one who is uninformed when I've read about everything (as much as I can find anyway)and anything relavent to our world & universe. I attempt to spread knowledge with my posts while some people post simply to argue & be counter productive.

Here's some links. To get you started. It is not wise to make such a important decision without being fully informed. By no means Is this evrything you need to know. Anyone who has any interest in actually trying to understand these things I would be glad to help them as much as I can. But you must really put it all together yourself. And keep an open mind.

I just saw this quote the other day thought it was very true, "The mind is like a parachute, It only works when it's open)

http://www.sukidog.com/jpierre/strings/extradim.htm http://www.levity.com/eschaton/Why2012.html

http://www.superstringtheory.com/index.html

http://www.taopage.org/taoism.html

http://www.northern.wvnet.edu/~gnorton/phil200/philec3.htm http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/ebod/ebod05.htm http://www.tsl.org/presence/charttext.html



[This message has been edited by Lysergamideman (edited 01-26-2004).]

What if the light isn't objective though? What if it varies for each individual? It makes a whole lot more sense to me that life, and that which may or may not come after matches with the person going there rather than being a set life that is arbitrarily labeled paradise, then there's the arbitrary void. Why not an endless amount of different possible afterlives, each tailored to what the person imagined it is.

If one exists, I imagine it a very peaceful place...troubles would still exist to give the good things the spice that makes them good.

Why should that not be my paradise? Because I don't have a God involved in my life even though I've seen not the slightest evidence of one existing? I've tried to study belief systems just as much as you have, yet I reached a different conclusion. Does that mean one of us is more open minded, or that we just have different thought processes and reach different conclusions with our own personal bias (you know, that thing that makes us unique from eachother)?

Quit professing beliefs that are unique to yourself as the absolute truth. Even if you were right, it's unprovable so don't preach is as truth. Explain it as theory and give life examples to support why YOU, personally believe that theory is closest to the truth; because really, the only reason any of us accept beliefs are our own experiences. That is why one person is able to say they don't belief a God exists (they may have had a lot of betrayal or untrustworthy people around and find faith to be a foreign concept), and some to be adamantly gung-ho for God (possibly an area they turned to out of loneliness, or to help end drug use, or perhaps were raised with belief in God and see no reason not to believe it). It comes down to life experiences, and so long as you are true to yourself, your beliefs are the right ones for you.

yea, but if we went to the void afterwords, we wouldn't even know where we were. In the Void NOTHING exists

[This message has been edited by KoWbOy KiLlEr (edited 01-26-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Ms. Death:

I'm somewhat atheist. I don't belive in god or religion but I belive in some form of an afterlife, simply becuase there seem to be more accounts of ghosts/huantings, then any proof of a god.

The world itself is not proof of God?

^That really sounds like an arguement from ignorance...which makes me think of something (not directed at you, it just hit my mind from what I read though)

A plea to everyone out there who ignores the Big Bang Theory, and other birth theories and just throw creation instantly to God without looking for any answers in our own lives:

Please, continue your belief that God created the Universe, that does no harm to anyone; realize this though, that due to your God's intangible property, nothing we ever know in our world and existence could possibly disprove their existence, so don't try to cut short the search of knowledge out of fear or for any other reason. Knowledge is a good thing, and may actually benefit your cause at some future time...you never know until you have the knowledge. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Lysergamideman:

If you truely belive there is nothing more than this life, than you will be correct. For if you belive that you are nothing more than flesh & an accumulation of sensory input over a lifetime and have no further dimension, then you will cease to be just as you belive. There can be no salvation for one who has instilledd in thereself belife that upon death of the physical form they are no more. So their energey is lost to darkness & chaos. This is the meaning of hell, death nothingness, the abcesnce of energy, light, life, & conciousness, ceaseing to exist. As the one who is aware of their life energy maintains conciousness and seeks the way. Those who are unaware are lost to the dark chaos of disorder & death.



Yeah I disagree with some of the first statement. I don't agree that you can believe yourself out of existance.

Nothing doesn't exist, so how is it possible to go there?

Also, it's impossible to truely believe that there is nothing after death. To truely believe it you must have a mental idea of what nothing is. But since nothing doesn't exist, it's impossible to know what nothing is and therefore impossible to truely believe that your gonna become nothing after your death.

quote:Originally posted by ---Beany---:

Also, it's impossible to truely believe that there is nothing after death. To truely believe it you must have a mental idea of what nothing is. But since nothing doesn't exist, it's impossible to know what nothing is and therefore impossible to truely believe that your gonna become nothing after your death.

I wasn't even gonna reply to this because your statment obviously contradicts itself, but I thought I would anyway to point it out tot you.

A person can belive there is more to life after death just as easily as one can belive there is not. You say one cannot know what nothing is yet you say in your statment that nothing doesn't exist. That is exactly what nothing is, nonexesitance. I'm sure most people can easily grasp there concept of the difference between somthing & nothing.

quote:Originally posted by ---Beany---:

it's impossible to know what nothing is and therefore impossible to truely believe that your gonna become nothing after your death.

I know what dreamless sleep is like (nothing). I know what life was like before I was born (nothing).

So logical thinking is a curse then? Hum, that's a bitch.

quote:Originally posted by Lysergamideman:

If you truely belive there is nothing more than this life, than you will be correct. For if you belive that you are nothing more than flesh & an accumulation of sensory input over a lifetime and have no further dimension, then you will cease to be just as you belive. There can be no salvation for one who has instilledd in thereself belife that upon death of the physical form they are no more. So their energey is lost to darkness & chaos. This is the meaning of hell, death nothingness, the abcesnce of energy, light, life, & conciousness, ceaseing to exist. As the one who is aware of their life energy maintains conciousness and seeks the way. Those who are unaware are lost to the dark chaos of disorder & death.



I didn't read the rest of the post. If you want there to be credibilty in your shit-stained words, then put coherence in them, too. I'm not even going to bother with insults and name-calling. Go away.

quote:Originally posted by P|Rawk:

The world itself is not proof of God?

No, it isn't. The world itself is proof of the world itself.

The good 'ole A=A statement of proof?

Exactumundo.

Guess those annoying proofs in algebra and geometry weren't a complete waste...

The light still shines in me.

quote:Originally posted by whateva:

fuck it then, im going to start believing that im going to be god when i die then... then i will be right you fucking idiot

Hahahaha. Nice! You just got your ass kicked http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif) Whateva is dead on with this one http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Nothing is not what you see with your eyes closed, nothing is what you can see with your elbow. Nothing exists alright, and its everywhere, only no one can see it due to the fact that it's nothing.

If you have ever heard of ether, it's kinda like that. There is no nothingness there is always something, in space there is suposed to be nothing but even einstein said "Space without ether is inthinkable". Everyting is one thing existing, you could call energy of existance God, but I'd rather call it just existance. Now things change and the closest thing to god that I know of is evolution for it forms us and all life. And I believe the universe itself evolves, everything changes. Also I've thought about maybe the universe itelf can think in a way, with all of the energy in it, maybe we are parts of.. "GOD" you could call it. But maybe it just watches, it is itself.. it does not create but exists and evolves creating itself.

quote:Originally posted by jm5k:

If you have ever heard of ether, it's kinda like that. There is no nothingness there is always something, in space there is suposed to be nothing but even einstein said "Space without ether is inthinkable". Everyting is one thing existing, you could call energy of existance God, but I'd rather call it just existance. Now things change and the closest thing to god that I know of is evolution for it forms us and all life. And I believe the universe itself evolves, everything changes. Also I've thought about maybe the universe itelf can think in a way, with all of the energy in it, maybe we are parts of.. "GOD" you could call it. But maybe it just watches, it is itself.. it does not create but exists and evolves creating itself.

Good post, it's nice to see some people actually still think for themselves.

I personally belive the universe is a seperate creation not that it is god, but it is from god but created from him. However you choose to define it to yourself I think I agree with your statment, but from a slightly different perspective.

In Book 5, Chapter 2 from Lu-sih ch'un-ch'iu (Spring and Autumn Annals), we find a description of the way all things were generated from Yin and Yang:

The Great One produces the two poles [i.e. Heaven and Earth], which in turn give rise to the energies of the dark (yin) and the light (yang). These two energies then transform themselves, one rising upwards, and the other descending downwards; they merge again and give rise to form".

There are two poles of the cosmic energies in the Chinese tradition - yang (the positive), and yin (the negative). "The ideograms display the sunny slope and the dark slope of a hill - fu - and they are related to the masculine and the feminine, the one who resists and the one who surrenders, the strong and the weak, light and dark, ascending and descending or heaven and earth.

Yin & yang are not defined with one set meaning they represent the nature of the universe through the balance of opposites. They can represent a variety of things. For example just as there is visable matter in space there is dark matter, or matter & anti-matter, just as the earth has positive & negative poles, or even as a person has good and bad moods, one can even identify them in such daily facts like cooking, where they stand for the seasoned and the unseasoned.

This is not to undermine, invalidate, or contradict any other religion, but simply elaborates on some areas where others fall short.

Atheism is actually more sensible than religion. You ask, "What are the chances of all of these conditions working together to form the universe?" Well what are the chances of there being a superior being who can do anything, make everyone know him, but no one has ever seen him, belief in a palace in the clouds, which we know are just condensed water droplets, and that he sets down rules without ever talking to anyone (who is sane). But the big bang theory has only a few conditions which are far more likely than those of religion. One there must be a critical mass, which can be formed on earth with uranium-235, so we know it is possible. Two this mass must exert gravity, which it is proven that all objects in the universe have a gravitational pull, and three, that high energy particles would fly the farthest from an explosion and later cool as a solid mass. If you ask me then inflationary universal theories that have branched from the big bang theory are almost written in stone, not by a bunch of Arabs who were actually trying to enforce morals, but were taken too seriously. If you truly ponder on the subject you will soon realize that there is no god.