I friend of mine, Jeff, one of the most intelligent people I have ever met (iq 163, up to Einsten standard) was Athiest. Jeff always believed that if you ever converted from Atheism you had seen the truth and couldnt handle it. (this though is spurred by someones earlier post who said Atheists were intellectually lazy) He was always intellectualizing and philosophizing and now he has converted to Mormanism as they sat with him for hours and hours convincing him. I think its total bullshit to just give up your beliefs even though I didnt agree with them then or even now and now he is going on a mission to Brazil to convert people there. Someone comment on this as I want to argue about something.

Do you not think there is enough evidence agianst religion? that maybe religion was created to answer all the questions we couldn't, becuase we were scared of not knowing? or that people used it to hold power over those of weaker minds and eventually fell into it themselves?

quote:Originally posted by ryanl:

I friend of mine, Jeff, one of the most intelligent people I have ever met (iq 163, up to Einsten standard) was Athiest. Jeff always believed that if you ever converted from Atheism you had seen the truth and couldnt handle it...

...He was always intellectualizing and philosophizing and now he has converted to Mormanism as they sat with him for hours and hours convincing him. I think its total bullshit to just give up your beliefs even though I didnt agree with them then or even now and now he is going on a mission to Brazil to convert people there.

Time to make him eat his own words.

I have noticed that those who opt for atheism for rational reasons specifically never tend to turn back because anytime some fundamentalist comes over to give him the drill, he's already got everything they can say all rationalized out.

How do you go from atheism to theism? I never really got that. I mean, those that choose atheism for emotional reasons don't tend to have a very strong foundation, but if you build your ideas on a solid foundation of logic and reason then no amount of unsupported nonsense should be able to phase you.

quote:Originally posted by Dark_Magneto:

Time to make him eat his own words.

I have noticed that those who opt for atheism for rational reasons specifically never tend to turn back because anytime some fundamentalist comes over to give him the drill, he's already got everything they can say all rationalized out.

How do you go from atheism to theism? I never really got that. I mean, those that choose atheism for emotional reasons don't tend to have a very strong foundation, but if you build your ideas on a solid foundation of logic and reason then no amount of unsupported nonsense should be able to phase you.

Jeff, being a very smart guy is also very morally strong, he doesnt go half way he is fully flegged with whatever he believes in. However, once a message is suggested over and over again with a certainty of doubt (ie it cant be proven either way) it engrains itself into the subconscious mind. Jeff, begun to notice coincidences, as a future psychiatrist I naturally categorized this as a mental illness (ie delusions), but he was so persistent that all these coincidences meant something, and with his subconcious message telling him there is a higher power, his mind naturally started building a framework of reference (ie he started to believe that these coincidences were leading him to his right path.) Of course the next time he was being talked to by these Mormans he was more succeptable to the idea of there being a God and this continued until he was unsure. Now, it is a terrible quality of human nature to not want to be unsure about something, is it not? Nothing was directly telling him there was no higher power with the doubt in his mind, but these Mormans were telling him that there was and their Religion was right for him. People hate being Undecided and Jeff slowly started to convert his way into Mormanism. Either all that or his idea from the beggining was to get a free trip to Brazil. Thats how one can change their strong beliefs, it is always possible when there is any certainty of doubt. Just as you cannot prove to me that there arent people that have time travelled to our present and dont want to interfere with our history by telling us. We would never know. I could raise facts and if you had that idea that it could happen I could eventually convice you of it if I had books, references, reasons for not knowing etc

quote:Originally posted by ShouldTrip:

Do you not think there is enough evidence agianst religion? that maybe religion was created to answer all the questions we couldn't, becuase we were scared of not knowing? or that people used it to hold power over those of weaker minds and eventually fell into it themselves?

Yes but my theory is more along the lines of. Someone see's people doing bad, stealing, killing, and causing harm. He knows that they would not like to have it done to themselves but they do not really understand the concept of other peoples feelings as it is in the dark ages. So this guy goes along and writes something that would scare them the most; a concept of reward if they are good and the most horrifying thing he can think of if they are bad. He then tells them all the things that he dislikes them doing and uses the concept of a higher power as a tool to do this. Remember this was before law, if law was invented back then would we have religion?

I don't have anything to say about athiest in general but mormans on the other hand well.... Get him away from mormans its better for him to not know God at all than to believe in the morman way. The mormans are clearly heretics I don't care how you look at it. They preach what the Bible says not to. Their doctrine is unfounded and what is founded is taken very loosely from scripture. That said, next time you see a morman qoute Revelation 28:18 "For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: "If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book." Thus the mormans are going straight to hell.

quote:people used it to hold power over those of weaker minds and eventually fell into it themselves?

makes sense. it's been proven that if you lie constantly you will eventually start to believe it.

Wow, your friend is a dumbass. I find it almost possible to believe that someone who apparently came to atheism on rational grounds, could ever turn back to religion, especially Mormonism. As far as religions go, Mormonism is about as stupid as Christianity can get.

It's a good thing you have a very intelligent friend, because I don't know how you'd make your cereal every morning without him.

"philosophizing" is very much not a word.

*narrow eyes suspiciously*

Cheers,

Lost