Hey Everyone,

I'd like to take this time to appologize to anyone who was offended by a christian who shared there beliefs with you. Actually, I'm not really sorry at all,

Most Christians are "forcing their beliefs on you" because they truly care about your immortal soul. That's a lot more than i can say about most people walking the earth.

If you don't care about what they are saying, that's your buisness, but at least realize that they aren't gaining anything in telling you about Jesus. It's fucking hard to try to talk about something that deep and personal to someone you don't know. Or worse yet, someone who's gonna spit on them for it.

If someone's telling you about Jesus it means that, at a human level, they care enough about you to want to share something with you that has changed their life for the better.

When I hear a band,read a book or see a movie that really changed the way i look at an aspect of life, I tell my friends about it. Jesus has changed my life much more than any band/book/movie I'll ever read. That's why I tell people about him when I feel comfortable enough.

Love,

theBishop

PS: If someone actually "forced" you to accept Jesus as your savior, then they are an Asshole, but I don't think most christians are putting a gun to your head.

Like xians never do the very same thing to people preaching other religeons.

By the way, you may think he is, but Jesus and his teachings are not exclusive to christianity. Other religeons accept Jesus as another prophet and if you explored other religeons you'd find that Jesus's teaching are very similar to that of other prophets.

yeah, but there's not a single religion that recognizes Jesus as the Messiah. putting Christianity in a leauge of its own

I like what theBishop has to say. It is very true and that is why we tell everyone so that they kind see and feel the joy that comes whe you know God.

Yes, Jesus was a prophet, but He was the only one to fill many prophecies of the messiah that was to come to save the world from its son. This is why the early followers formed a religion based on the Christ which is Christianity.

- save the world from its sin- twas a typo

quote:Originally posted by cunfoozedmunkee:

yeah, but there's not a single religion that recognizes Jesus as the Messiah. putting Christianity in a leauge of its own

Please. Christians don't even truly follow Jesus. Answer me this question, in all seriousness: What would you do if I walked up to you out of nowhere, and punched you as hard as I could in the face?

Laugh, and then beat your ass for being a punk.

quote:What would you do if I walked up to you out of nowhere, and punched you as hard as I could in the face?



I'd get my Jewish friends to bankrupt you and your family.

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

If someone actually "forced" you to accept Jesus as your savior, then they are an Asshole, but I don't think most christians are putting a gun to your head.

Not putting a gun to your head you say. Hmmm, lets think about that statement for a moment shall we. believe it or not it's still against the law to practice witchcraft in some states, yes witchcraft is a form of religion,also there are many people that would love to have the bible taught in schools,but want to exclude every other religion from also being taught.

Some so called christians think they are above the law and can place a several ton statue of the ten commandments anywhere they like. Oh, and lets not forget the idiot who thinks God actually made him president for a reason. This same idiot thinks it's ok to break down the barriers between church & state, and hire people based on their beliefs rather than their qualifications. they may not be using a real gun, but trying to use the law to further their own beliefs over others can be just as harmful to a person or society.

Oblivion,

You raise some very good points. I definitly agree that there are christians and "conservatives" in high places that are using their personal beliefs and "morality" as blueprints for lawmaking, when the only blueprint that has merit in America is the constitution. That is lamentable. However, i think its important to realize that these people don't speak for every believer of the faith.

quote:Originally posted by Lysergamideman:

Laugh, and then beat your ass for being a punk.

Well, you'd try to beat my ass. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

But the point is, that you wouldn't "turn the other cheek", ask if you'd offended me, and let me hit you again. You're not christian. Same for you Bishop. Even if you didn't respond physically, you'd still be taking malevolent action against, not just me, but people who never did anything to you. I don't get you people. If you want to follow "the Lord, Jesus Christ", then fucking do it. Which means all of it. Anything else is just deluding yourself. Because if God is real, and Jesus was his son, and he fucking told you how to live your life, you can't just pick and choose. The second you start doing that, you're what people refer to as a "heretic".

SurahArrihim, we follow Jesus, in the sense that we believe in his teachings and think they are good, we also TRY to obey his laws, but we are human and we are not perfect, so we can never obey every law of his. It is a guidline, a point which we try to reach but will never be able to. Its the effort we put into it that gets us to heaven or hell. When you punch me, I would hit you back, though I believe in Jesus and his teachings, I do not have time to think back to my choices, and by Human instinct, I will defend myself. That was a poor example. Turn the other cheek does not necessarily mean literally. You could insult me, and I could just ignore it and not retaliate, the saying "turn the other cheek" still applies.

See, that was always my big gripe about religions. People think you can just "try" or some bullshit, then just blame their failing on the fact that they're "only human". I'd rather be responsible for myslef, and know that I'm not screwing with my chances of getting into heaven whenever I do what I feel is right. If you're going to do something, do it whole heartedly. Don't pussy-foot around it, then try to mew "but I did my best" when you're standing before St. Peter. Jesus was a pascifist. His teachings saw to shrug off the blows dealt you, metaphorical or physical, because this life doesn't matter. Only the next life does. If you'd fight back without even trying to restrain yourself, then you're not even trying.

Bishop, I think your thread has been officially hijacked.

actually, I think they only care about saving their own souls, they somehow believe that they score "points" by converting people and commiting good deeds, not by doing so out of good will, but because they are greedy assholes.mostly

"actually, I think they only care about saving their own souls, they somehow believe that they score "points" by converting people and commiting good deeds, not by doing so out of good will, but because they are greedy assholes.mostly"

That is absurd--"points"--points from who??

Why can you not believe they tell their side out of goodness? It sounds to me like you are trying to score points. Your argument is weak.

Well, at the risk of going to hell for not "turning the other cheek" on a debate forum, I'm going to defend/counter some statements.

One dude came on effectively saying Christians are hipocrites because they don't follow "all" of Christ's teachings.

The standard that Jesus set is perfection, or in religiousy terms, a sinless life. The whole reason Jesus lived was because people aren't expected to never fall short of God's vision for us. Old Testament Jews had to slaughter animals to pay for their transgressions, Christianity teaches that Jesus is the sacrificial lamb that is enough to cover everyone's sins who believes in him.

Somebody else (H&S) basically said that in fewer words. SurahAhriman came back saying "that's my biggest gripe about religions...": we just 'try' but that doesn't save us from being hipocrates. He'd much rather live by his own standard. Then he said that my thread was somehow "hijacked", as if i wasn't going to be able to defend myself ;-).

Well, SurahAhriman, I know that since you're so "responsible", then the standard you set for yourself is perfection. And you never falter from your perfect standard. It's pretty easy to not be a hipocrate when you essentially make up what's morally acceptable for yourself.

It's a common myth that it's a Christian's duty to be perfect. Actually, it should be the goal of a Christian to be as "Christlike" as possible. If humans were capable of being perfect, God wouldn't have sent Jesus to die. According to the bible NO ONE gets into heaven no matter how "Good" or "Responsible" they are because no one is perfect.



Titus 3:5: Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

quote:Originally posted by SurahAhriman:

Well, you'd try to beat my ass. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

But the point is, that you wouldn't "turn the other cheek", ask if you'd offended me, and let me hit you again. You're not christian. Same for you Bishop. Even if you didn't respond physically, you'd still be taking malevolent action against, not just me, but people who never did anything to you. I don't get you people. If you want to follow "the Lord, Jesus Christ", then fucking do it. Which means all of it. Anything else is just deluding yourself. Because if God is real, and Jesus was his son, and he fucking told you how to live your life, you can't just pick and choose. The second you start doing that, you're what people refer to as a "heretic".

Amen! If you're going to devote yourself to Jesus, if you believe his teachings alone are the route to paradise, then follow them to the letter. A lifetime of being an incredibly nice person, a complete pacifist, and suffering for it can't be that bad considering you're assured a place in paradise for all eternity afterwards... Unless you have your doubts about your beliefs....

I believe that Jesus existed, I think he is an example to us all (perhaps even an early magician), and I think it is theoretically possible to behave exactly as he did, but I wouldn't because I don't believe in the afterlife. Instead, I just try to generally love my neighbour without having to hold back when someone punches me in the face for no good reason. If I did truly believe in the afterlife however, I think I'd have enough willpower to be that good a person if it meant I could get into heaven, which is why I think some Christians aren't quite as pious as they make out.

quote:That is absurd--"points"--points from who??

*nudges you*

*whispers "I think he means God."*

Who did you mean when you said he was trying to score points?

I can't believe that anyone does anything out of "goodness". Humans are inherantly selfish (or at least gene-selfish... selfish for their close family) - the ones that weren't died out. Therefore, humans never do anything that doesn't benefit them... you only give people presents so that they think better of you, you only give money to beggars because it makes you feel like a nice person, and you only try to convert people to Christianity because you think it will get you into heaven. Maybe the first two are subconcious, but it's the truth. Seriously, if you were really a nice person you'd leave them alone to make their own choices... it's not like people aren't aware that Christianity exists or of it's basic teachings.

If I'm honest, the only thing I really can't stand about Christians (apart from the holier-than thou attitudes or the extremists that seem to have crowbarred their way into a few positions of power in America) is the fact that I live in a Christian society and everyone assumes that you're a Christian... everyone says things like "god bless you" and in school we used to get assemblies from vicars about how they found a penny yesterday and how it shows Jesus' love for us all. They made us sing hymns... in a goddamn state school.

i know someone who has tried so hard to try to make me put faith in christianity/god in general and she cares for me very much, so much so that she doesnt care if i worship her god or someone elses or thing which she believes is wrong with all of her heart in soul (though blindly through faith) she just wants to see me truely happy and at peace. I refuse to put faith in anything that doesnt work completely, and for the good of man christianity doesnt! (seemingly unless they got the god thing right :P)

If you can see why christianity doesnt work, but should work then you are already a smart person.

How about you Christians stop telling people about how awesome Jesus is. If they want to learn about Jesus, they can go read the fucking bible.

But the point is, you wouldn't even try to restrain yourself. You just pull the "oh, I'm only human. I'm not perfect, so it's ok."

And by hijacking your thread, I meant that the topic of conversation has changed.

Surah, i agree with you and many of the others accusation that many Christians are hypocrites, in fact id venture to say that all Christians are hypocrites to some degree, me especially.

Would i try to restrain myself? i dunno, probably not, id like to say that i would though. But in the end- you dont know the Bishop or me, or the vast majority of Christians for that matter. Although your generalisation is probably based on your (valid) experiences with Christians.

"Worded up" atheists/agnostics/pagans or whatever are excellent at taking the teachings of Christ far more literaly than most hardcore fundamentalists and totally ignore what Christ was about- Grace and Faith not Legalism.

Fact for Today: Jesus of Nazareth is the first person recorded for coining the phrase "hypocrite" (from the Greek to wear masks) (i think...)

I also would like to take this opportunity to follow the Bishops lead and apologise.

with the same PS too!

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

"Worded up" atheists/agnostics/pagans or whatever are excellent at taking the teachings of Christ far more literaly than most hardcore fundamentalists and totally ignore what Christ was about- Grace and Faith not Legalism.

As an atheist, I agree. I have no choice but to take them literally; without any personal experience of your god there is no way for me to determine which of the dozens of possible metaphorical meanings a passage could have.

Even so, debating your holy books is really just something to pass the time until you folks give evidence that God exists; without it the books have no validity.

The moment God "proves" she/he/it exists it won't matter.