Leviticus 15:

19-30

And if a woman have an issue and her issue in her flesh be blood, she

shall be put apart for seven days; and whosoever toucheth her shall be

unclean until the evening. And everything that she lieth upon shall be

unclean; everything that she sitteth upon shall be unclean. And whosoever

toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and

be unclean until the even. And if it be on her bed, or on anything

whereof she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the

even. And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he

shall be unclean for seven days: and all the bed whereon he lieth shall

be unclean. And if a woman have an issue of her blood many days out of

the time of her separation, or if it run beyond the time of her

separation, all the days of her issue, of her uncleanness shall be as

the days of her separation: she shall be unclean. Every bed whereon she

lieth all the days of her issue shall be unto her as the bed of her

separation: and whatsoever she sitteth upon shall be unclean, as the

uncleaness of her separation. And whosoever toucheth those things shall

be unclean, and shall wash himself in water, and be unclean until the

even. But if she be cleansed of her issue, the she shall number herself

seven days, and after that she shall be clean. And on the eigth day, she

shall take unto her two turtles, or two young pidgeons, and bring them

unto a priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. ANd the

priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt

offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD,

for the issue of her uncleanness.

More Biblical rhetoric..... so?

It seems that mensturation is a sin in the eyes of Christianity, and all women are destined to go to hell.

I'm not sure where it says it's a sin, it says "unclean". "Unclean" is a pretty nice way of putting it i think.

^^ And is everything else nicely put? Or shall we interperate this one so it fits what modern Christianity claims to be as well?

And on the eigth day, she

shall take unto her two turtles, or two young pidgeons, and bring them

unto a priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And the

priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt

offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD,

for the issue of her uncleanness.

More evidence that Christianity is a cult.....

Ummmm.... is it just me or was that a rule for the Isrealites??? Because now we don't do much of that burnt offering stuff anymore, and there's plenty of that in there, too. We can't eat pork, or a lot of other animals, lotsa unclean shit. Its all a bunch of worthless shit now, unless you feel like following it all to the letter. What good does following a little bit do if you're not going to follow it all???

Women can't speak while in a church it seems..



"As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. What! Did the word of God originate with you, or are you the only ones it has reached? If any one thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord. If any one does not recognize this, he is not recognized" (1 Corinthians 14:33-38).

All a psychological device to make men seem more important, yet one should not ignore it's effectiveness.

All it says is that menstruation is unclean - which it is. And it was certainly more unclean back then.

It does mention sin at the end of the passage, but it doesn't really give any clear connection to the menstruation other than sacrificing a pigeon or turtle for sin is something that should be done after menstruation.

This could really be interpreted a lot of different ways.

Cheers,

Lost

It's not unclean it's a part of life, taking a shit is not unclean, we only associate it as unclean because the smell is not favorable. Yet shit is not any more unedible than toothpaste, and we use that to clean our mouths.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

All it says is that menstruation is unclean - which it is. And it was certainly more unclean back then.

Except that in this context it means spiritually unclean.

quote:And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childless.

-- Leviticus 20:21

I won't deny that bleeding everywhere can make a mess, but saying that being on the rag is as bad as having sex with your brother's wife seems a bit off.

Not to mention the fact that nobody is allowed to touch menstruating women for a week, and then demand a blood sacrifice to clean them. Odd, to say the least.

[This message has been edited by Craftian (edited 02-11-2004).]

Yeah, many sins in the bible are refered to as "unclean" such as beastiality, homosexuality,types of murder, ect.



Now, if having your period is indeed a sin, what are we to make of this next verse?

Mark 9:47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and bethrown into hell.



So, since a girls overies cuase her to have a period, and her period is a sin, then acording to that verse she needs to have her overies removed?

The fact of the matter is, when you really look at the details, Christianity is as full of shit as any other religion. It's a bunch of superstitious bullshit from a time when nobody knew anything about how things really are. Modern Christians only quote and give credit to the parts of the Bible that suit them.

Where does it imply that it's unclean of the soul?

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by Ms. Death:

And if a woman have an issue and her issue in her flesh be blood, she

shall be put apart for seven days;

This may also be intended to help push the 'spill no seed' sex-for-reproduction-only program, as a woman is less likely to conceive during that part of the cycle.

Not that this explains the whole shame campaign, mind you.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Where does it imply that it's unclean of the soul?

What, you think killing turtles is meant to physically cleanse the woman?

Also note the use of the word "atonement":

quote:atonement n.

1. Amends or reparation made for an injury or wrong; expiation.

2.

a. Reconciliation or an instance of reconciliation between God and humans.

b. Christianity. The reconciliation of God and humans brought about by the redemptive life and death of Jesus.

3. Obsolete. Reconciliation; concord.

dictionary.com

[This message has been edited by Craftian (edited 02-11-2004).]

It doesn't specificly say beastiality is unclean of the soul either, guees its okay to screw animals then but its just alittle "dirty"

quote:Originally posted by Ms. Death:

It doesn't specificly say beastiality is unclean of the soul either, guees its okay to screw animals then but its just alittle "dirty"

*thumbs up*

*fucks a poodle*

Well, first off I would like to point out that this is from Leviticus, shared by Jews and Christians alike, it is not only their belief. Christians do not believe word for word of the bible except for fundamentalists. It is very true that we pick out the points of the bible that suits us. However, certain things are cleared out in the new testament, certain laws are clarified. In the litteral sense, this is quite true it is quite messy. Spiritually, it is quite odd, probably because they didn't understand what was going on... I mean seriously, if a woman just started bleeding randomnly you'd think they pissed God off if you were religous, so they would say it is a sin, or an effect of a sin. and is it possible that the writer of these works might have slipped off the deep end for a few moments when copying word for word what God has said? I think it is quite possible, so somethings might not make sense. The Muslim excuse would be that the nature of Allah and his ways are beyond our comprehension, that solves the problem.

quote:Originally posted by Craftian:



Not to mention the fact that nobody is allowed to touch menstruating women for a week



wow id call that a brillant bible quote, are you really sure you want to be around your girl while shes on the rag? eh.. eh...

hahahahaha genius

I feel like a serious answer is a waste, but oh well.

The menstruation reference belonged to the Mosaic Ceremonial laws given to the Hebrews. The nature of their relationship to God (i.e. being God's chosen people, set apart from all the other countries) was to be reflected in every aspect of their lives: moral, cultural, religious, hygine, eating habits etc.

The main theme behind it was that to "coexist" with a perfectly Holy God (who dwelled among them in the tabernacle), the people had to be free from all signs of uncleaness and deformity- everything that represented the fallen nature of creation.

i.e. not just menstruation, but ALL bodily secretions, things like mildew, unclean animals and so on.

With the Messiah, the nature of God's relationship to humans changed. No longer was it a physical nation that would be God's chosen people but rather He would relate to them on a person by person basis through Christ. As a result of this the OT ceremonial law was no longer neccesary as people are made "clean" (in the spiritual sense) by Christ's death and resurrection. This is not a recent invention by modern Christians but a principle clearly layed out in the New Testament (see for yourself, read Paul's letter to the Romans)

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

*thumbs up*

*fucks a poodle*



LMAO! http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

With the Messiah, the nature of God's relationship to humans changed.

If the prohibitions on eating shellfish and touching women who're riding the cotton pony were overturned, then why not the one on homosexuality (Leviticus 18:22)? or bestiality (Leviticus 18:23)?

[This message has been edited by Craftian (edited 02-14-2004).]

Just remember this one thing about masturbation, there are those that do it and there are those that lie about doing it.......

I felt the need to elborate on my previous poodle fucking.

Frankly, I don't think there is anything spiritually "dirty" with fucking beastiality. I really don't think god gives a shit who you fuck, where you fuck them, or what position you were in while you were fucking. I don't think he pays attention to those sorts of things if he's concious in any way comprehendable by humans. If he is concious like we are, then he probably has bigger problems than what species we're fucking.

But, I do think it's dirty, physically and probably pretty unhealthy. You never know what kind of diseases other animals carry. It's hard to tell what diseases humans carry, for that matter.

Also, I doubt an animal is very interested in having sex with a human, so you could consider it rude to the animal. I'm not sure how animals psyches work about those sorts of things, but you could possibly damage the animal mentally. Make the animal mean or something. Like if someone were to rape a child. Which is why I believe paedophilia is wrong.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by Craftian:

If the prohibitions on eating shellfish and touching women who're riding the cotton pony were overturned, then why not the one on homosexuality (Leviticus 18:22)? or bestiality (Leviticus 18:23)?

[This message has been edited by Craftian (edited 02-14-2004).]

Good question- i reckon it was because its of a more moral than ceremonial nature i.e. other things such as not sacrificing your children to Molech.

Another reason why some things are not considered overturned is that the same principle is laid down in the NT as well e.g:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

"...Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor theives nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. "

That includes me.

Thankfully though, v11

"And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you wer justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God"