Definition of scence:

quote:The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.

Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.

Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.

A long time ago it was just that: Attempts at explaining how the universe works.

Now it has evolved into a multi-trillion-dollar corporation that has sucked in and ruined over 4 billion lives.

Our science has evolved much over 100,000 years, while old ideas still rule as the majority even after being disproven.

Now we know that constellations are not animals and people, and that water isnt an element because those have been disproven. Religion has been disproven as well but people refuse to give it up.

If schools wish to teach cristianity as a truth, then we might as well be taught that constellations are real people, and that fairies, goblins, and unicorns exist. Religion and fairie tales are all disproven attempts at explaining the universe.

change the subject line to say: CHRISTIANITY is old science.

In what way does science prove religion false? or perhaps a better question, in what way does science negate the need for religion?

he's saying that religion was originially a form of science.

quote:Originally posted by kevinboyd:

change the subject line to say: CHRISTIANITY is old science.

Doesn't this apply to quite a lot of religions?

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

In what way does science prove religion false? or perhaps a better question, in what way does science negate the need for religion?

What is the need for religion? In my opinion the need for science is to understand our universe that we may better manipulate it for our own needs, before you ask.

Religion exist to anwer the questions:

How did we get here?

Where do we go after this?

What are we doing while we're here?

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

Religion exist to anwer the questions:

How did we get here?

Where do we go after this?

What are we doing while we're here?

So do you know yet?

^^^ he has a point, a lot of religions have been around for a long time, and they still havent answered even 1. Well if they have they havent answered it in a way that is obviously true.

I answered all three but the exam board lost my paper...

I can answer this in 4 words:

Whatever we fucking want.

quote: Whatever we fucking want

See, that i have a problem with. Even if i didn't believe in a religion, and even if i didn't believe in any kind of post-life or Judgement, I still refuse to believe that we should do whatever we want while we are here. Hell, I'd rather have a made up belief as to what we're supposed to be doing here. But i guess that's the belief system i've been arguing against recently. ;-)

If you don't have at least a personal answer to the question "What are we Doing while we're here" and you refuse to accept any religion's answer for you, i suggest you check out the ladder theory, at least you'll enjoy yourself before you're condemned to an eternity of burning.

http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html

I suggest you, Bishop, check out ladder theory before you're condemned to an eternity of being fried in batter and served with chips! Huzzah for the Ugly Fish!

This ladder theory looks quite interesting though, thanks.

I don't think we are doing anything here. Well, I say that, but what I mean is I don't think we are probably supposed to be doing anything specific here, because I'm agnostic. However, I don't think we should be doing "whatever we fucking want". I think we should be doing "whatever we fucking want, provided it doesn't stop anyone else doing whatever they fucking want". It doesn't sound like a big change, but in reality it puts huge restrictions on the things we can do, and makes our established society and moral codes (almost) just right.

[This message has been edited by sp0rkius (edited 02-18-2004).]

Religions are old forms of science, one very obvious supporting belief of christians is that heaven is in the clouds. We all know that clouds are condensed water droplets and above them is just more atmostphere, no god, no heaven. and I believe that our life's sole purpose is to reproduce to further evolution, however, I do not believe its right to have more than 3 children, because all those damn chinks are overrunning the surplus population. As an aethiest I don't have an established religion and believe in no higher beings, but i do have fairly strong faith in the big bang theory, with a few modifications I have made myself, I find it very accurate. However, I'm not some gay hippy who is going to create a occult because of it that will be outdated in 20 - 100 years down the road. Simply put religion = ignorance.

Maybe back in the day when the Church was just as powerful as the government and all scientists had to appeal to the church, and even before that when religion's main purpose was to provide answers for the world, Religion was science. However, those days are long behind us.

Science and Religion can co-exist seperately. Maybe one day science will be able to irrefutably prove that there is no god and all that, but right now, the goals of religion and the goals of science are mostly seperate. Budnboardindude, I'm glad you were able to form a strong faith in the big bang theory. Did you know that the person who first put his faith in the Big Bang Theory was a Catholic Priest? Somehow he was able to believe in Jesus AND the big bang theory.

Religion != Ignorance.

Love Always,

theBishop

http://www.big-bang-theory.com/

[This message has been edited by theBishop (edited 02-19-2004).]

Let me ask any of you...Who makes desicions for you?

YOU DO!! No one else makes decisions for you. Sure others try to influence your decision making, hell, even try to control it. Yet, at the base of it all, who ends up acting? Come on I know it's tough to answer..YOU DO!! Not only that but your actions define who you are. Yes it is common sense, yes this point IS often overlooked. You are allowed to do whatever the fuck you want, yet what you do carries consequenses. What do you want to be? Do you want to be kind, compassionate, creative, free? You can be all of those things, but you can't be them by being what others want you to be.

The only people that have ever mattered in the history of our species, have been people who do whatever the fuck they want. Yoshua, Siddhartha, Hitler, Mother Teresa, Albert Einstein, just to name a few. Some consciously chose to be the highest aspects they could concieve themselves being, others acted out of unconscious fear. Yet they and everey one else on this planet from ameoba to person does perfectly and exactly what they want, which is to represent themselves as they see fit. Do you think that there is anything else you can do in this world? Do you really think this world to be any more than a game? It's like Monopoly, you pick a thimble, car, or whatever to represent you. You can play the game, or if you want to, break the rules. Or you can use the elements in the game and make up a new one. You are free to stop playing whenever you want, you are free to take it seriously, or to start over, but in the end it is only a game. What better system to recreate and represent yourself than this? Whatever we decide should be so it is, individually and collectively, this life is nothing but a journey of creation. Remember 1+1=2 only because we say so, we could have chose any other symbol to represent the concept. Don't mistake the map for the territory.

quote:the goals of religion and the goals of science are mostly seperate.

I wouldn't say that, they seem fairly similar:

Goal of science - to explain the world around us.

Goal of religion - to explain away that which can't be explained by science to keep the people who can't handle the fact that mankind is not all-knowing and that the world is an uncertain sort of place happy.

quote:Let me ask any of you...Who makes desicions for you?

YOU DO!!

No shit! Once again, ilbastardoh states the obvious. We know that we can make our own decisions, we are big boys and girls now. The challenge is making the right decisions, ones which will make you happy. It's all too easy to be irresponsible and say "I'm going to break the rules, life is just one big game of monopoly anyway", but that won't result in happiness for you, because you'll get arrested or have no friends or somthing.

Science is to answer the what, where, when, and how.

Religion is to answer the why.

Why is a spiritual question, and out of the realms of science in most aspects. Religion is mostly conjecture and group opinions that gain popularity, so it can only deal effectively with the question that has no definitive answer. That's atleast my two least valuable form of curreny in your respective country on the issue.

There is no challenge other than doing what makes you happy. Not what's convenient, often people confuse convenience with happines. Let me assure you they're not the same. Also a lot has to do with the fact almost evrey one on earth is addicted to it.

quote:Originally posted by sp0rkius:

[B] What is the need for religion? ......





the fear of death. humanity's fear of dying - fear of the end, has prompted such religious attempts to grasp an afterlife.

most of the fearful would like to believe that they will see their loved ones again and that they are in a 'better place'; a comforting notion i might add.

I gotta say, i don't fear death as much as i fear dying and never finding out how everything works.