1st off, ive been considered an athiest because i dont beleive in a supreme deity...and also been considered agnostic because i believe in a parts of different religions. in the end, ive decided im an "edist" and have actually been able to convert a lot of people to my religion. but ya, on to the point...ive just started reading the bible and keep a copy in my bathroom (in a non-sac-religious way) so i can read a lil everyday. but ya, so these are some thigns ive noticed.

in the bible, god had to rest after he finished creating everything...a common question is that why would god rest if hes all powerful? that question cannot be answered, but we can tell that he did in fact rest... he created man in his image, and a man would sure as shit take a beer and cigarette break after creating the entire world, so why wouldnt god?

Well, whatever tht beer was that put God down, I'm sure it'd have a good marketing edge, eh?

quote:Originally posted by edinator:

1st off, ive been considered an athiest because i dont beleive in a supreme deity

Then you are an atheist, by definition.

Good luck with the bible, if you manage to get past the gigantic geneologies without collapsing with boredom you'll get to read about all kinds of crazy crap.

to follow up your story about how god got tired after creating earth, i would like to explain another story that makes no sense to anyone including an atheist such as myself. The strory of Jonah consists of him not beleiving in himself enough to tell the people of a far away town that they are committing sins. God tells Jonah to tell them about their wrongdoings, but i dont know why god didnt do it himself because he is a lazy bastard. Anyways, God makes Jonah get swallowed by a giant fish that Jonah lives in for three days and nights because Jonah is too scared to talk to a group of people aboout their sins. Stop!, There is no way in heaven or hell that a homo-sapien can live in a fish for that long. No water, light, or anything related to survival lives in a fish. Also, why does God always resort to punishment so quickly, does the bible not say to do no harm to a fellow individual. Why is this God able to be so hipocritical? After Jonah's terrible ordeal (that he could not survive realisticly) the giant fish spits him up on a shore.(ironicly right where he needs to be) All Jonah can think about is that God has spared his life. Of course, he blames god for his survival, but if he would not have survived, the fellow people would have thought that it was Gods will to sentance Jonah to death. If you read any other stories in the bible you will also notice certain things that are so unlikely you want to burn the bible to ashes. I reccomend atheism to all who feel as i do because you will not be alone. One more thing, Where was God on September 11, 2001? Answer me that conservative christians...

quote:Originally posted by edinator:

in the bible, god had to rest after he finished creating everything...a common question is that why would god rest if hes all powerful?

Two possible reasons:

1.)He felt like it

2.)It's allegorical

quote:that question cannot be answered,

What are you talking about? I just did.

The_Rabbi just further proved my point...im not trying to disprove god or anything, im just saying that why would god take a nap if hes all powerful? why would he rest if he doesnt need to? he said he felt like it...but doesnt god have better things to do then take a nap? hopefully he does man...

quote:Originally posted by budnboardindude:

Where was God on September 11, 2001? Answer me that conservative christians...

Probably with his thumb up his ass saying,"Oh that tickles!"Sort of like Elmo says it, or with Buddah's or Colonel Sanders' thumb up his ass.



[This message has been edited by zEsTyTuRtLe (edited 02-22-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by edinator:

im just saying that why would god take a nap if hes all powerful?

why wouldn't he take a nap, if he's all powerful?

quote: why would he rest if he doesnt need to? he said he felt like it...but doesnt god have better things to do then take a nap? hopefully he does man...

He didn't need to create the universe, either, but he did, didn't he?

You can't put human constraints on an all-powerful being. If he's all-powerful he does things just because he wants to.

quote:Originally posted by edinator:

The_Rabbi just further proved my point...im not trying to disprove god or anything, im just saying that why would god take a nap if hes all powerful? why would he rest if he doesnt need to? he said he felt like it...but doesnt god have better things to do then take a nap? hopefully he does man...

You are trying to disprove the bibles credibility and in a circuitous manner Gods existence. Don't deceive yourself in to assuming something else. Its not befitting of a individual with such equitable characteristics.

quote:Originally posted by budnboardindude:

If you read any other stories in the bible you will also notice certain things that are so unlikely you want to burn the bible to ashes. I reccomend atheism to all who feel as i do because you will not be alone. One more thing, Where was God on September 11, 2001? Answer me that conservative christians...

Why do people have this mentality that Christianity is the only religion? It seems a bit ignorant to turn directly to atheism because you feel the bible isn't credible.

Aside from the many other religions out there, one can still believe in God without binding themselves to a religion. Also, one can become part of a religion while still denying the existance of a God [eg: buddhism].

quote:Originally posted by budnboardindude:

One more thing, Where was God on September 11, 2001? Answer me that conservative christians...

Dunno, where was God yesterday?

Or tomorrow?

Free will is the answer you seek. God doesn't get involved in our business, period.

Unless you're some kind of prophet, but there aren't many of those around these days that are out in the open.

Wanna hear some crazy shit? well, read right after they crucify jesus. It says that dead clergymen rise from the ground and people think it shows that jesus was truly evil or somthing along those lines. I'd have to reread it to be exactly sure, but its a load of crap whichever way you put it.

quote:Originally posted by budnboardindude:

Where was God on September 11, 2001? Answer me that conservative christians...

In the cockpit under the alias of "Allah" with Islamic fundamentalists at the helm, just as god intended.

quote:Originally posted by SEN D-F:

Why do people have this mentality that Christianity is the only religion? It seems a bit ignorant to turn directly to atheism because you feel the bible isn't credible.

Christianity, as the squeaky wheel, gets the grease. It doesn't make much sense to argue against another religion if there's nobody of that religion here to argue with.

And with a complete lack of evidence for any religious claims, atheism is the only credible position.

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

Dunno, where was God yesterday?

Or tomorrow?

Free will is the answer you seek. God doesn't get involved in our business, period.

Unless you're some kind of prophet, but there aren't many of those around these days that are out in the open.

God doesnt get involved at all? So when these people who survive crazy accidents and everyone says its a miracle, it really wasnt? You probably see them in the news everyday, "Man struck by car and falls in ditch containing rusty spikes. Found 10 days later." Then there's also the ones with little kids, "Child gets attacked by shark. Swims to shore with no legs and no arms. Doctors say she'll be fine." These things are always considered 'miracles.' The people involved insist that god was watching over them and helped them through the tough times.

So all these people were just really lucky? Dont get me wrong, I also think that god has nothing to do with these situations. Then again, I'm an atheist.

I call it luck.

If God is getting involved, it's not in any way that I can tell.

If God doesn't involve Itself in the world, how do you know It is there?

quote:Originally posted by Craftian:

If God doesn't involve Itself in the world, how do you know It is there?

That's just the thing. Its not knowledge, its belief.

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."

- Benjamin Franklin

The funny thing is that theists say the exact same thing but think that somehow helps their argument.

It's quite simple. God created man. Man created religion. It's all about faith. Believers with a strong faith tend to point the finger at God no matter what the situation, whereas atheists will come up with 10 million different questions to dispute the existence of God. God does not DIRECTLY interact with humans anymore. Jesus Christ was the last time God DIRECTLY interacted with us.

"Faith without works is pointless. Works without faith is pointless."

quote:Originally posted by Craftian:

If God doesn't involve Itself in the world, how do you know It is there?

I don't.

If you want to understand religion, just stop thinking. Make sure you don't use any reason or logical ideas. Stick your head in the sand and hum with your fingers in your ears. That's what happened in the middle ages under the church's rule, and that's what made our world so great, o wait.......

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

I don't.

Then why do believe and/or think that It is?

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

You can't put human constraints on an all-powerful being. If he's all-powerful he does things just because he wants to.



That made me laugh.

OK, for a start, god would not drink beer or smoke ciggerettes because god is not a physical being therefore couldn't. Such things as alchohole and drugs a problem to HUMAN BEINGS. One of the main reasons why jesus was sent to man by god was because god was not a human being, and so "god in the form of man" needed to be delivered to man.

I really suggest that you read about spirituality etc so you can understand the difference between a man and god, and the difference between the power of a man and the power of a supreme spiritual entity. Then your question about "Why would god need to take a rest if he's all powerful" would be answered, and at least you would be intellecutally enlightened above your perception of gods rest as "takin' a nap? doohh?"

quote:Originally posted by Craftian:

Then why do believe and/or think that It is?



Because I've talked to the fella. Of course, it was during something you'd automatically discount, so there's no point telling you the story.

There you have it folks; what it boils down to is "because I believe it to be true."

If you have a good reason to believe in a god, then (to put it bluntly) put up or shut up.

If yo do not have a a good reason, then we remain where we started.

I suspect you know you don't have a good reason, which is why you don't want to share it. If this is not the case, feel free to prove me wrong.

quote:Originally posted by budnboardindude:

to follow up your story about how god got tired after creating earth, i would like to explain another story that makes no sense to anyone including an atheist such as myself. The strory of Jonah consists of him not beleiving in himself enough to tell the people of a far away town that they are committing sins. God tells Jonah to tell them about their wrongdoings, but i dont know why god didnt do it himself because he is a lazy bastard. Anyways, God makes Jonah get swallowed by a giant fish that Jonah lives in for three days and nights because Jonah is too scared to talk to a group of people aboout their sins. Stop!, There is no way in heaven or hell that a homo-sapien can live in a fish for that long. No water, light, or anything related to survival lives in a fish. Also, why does God always resort to punishment so quickly, does the bible not say to do no harm to a fellow individual. Why is this God able to be so hipocritical? After Jonah's terrible ordeal (that he could not survive realisticly) the giant fish spits him up on a shore.(ironicly right where he needs to be) All Jonah can think about is that God has spared his life. Of course, he blames god for his survival, but if he would not have survived, the fellow people would have thought that it was Gods will to sentance Jonah to death. If you read any other stories in the bible you will also notice certain things that are so unlikely you want to burn the bible to ashes. I reccomend atheism to all who feel as i do because you will not be alone. One more thing, Where was God on September 11, 2001? Answer me that conservative christians...

Thats not how God works. Let me ask you this, If all of a sudden you heard or felt soemthing in your heart telling you that you have sinned and needed to repent, do you think that you would have listened. God was trying to use Jonah as his instrument to bring repentance, Because I believe that people would be more infulenced by a carnate man.

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

Because I've talked to the fella. Of course, it was during something you'd automatically discount, so there's no point telling you the story.



I would like to here it. Some of us here are religious.

quote:Originally posted by Craftian:

If you have a good reason to believe in a god, then (to put it bluntly) put up or shut up.

If yo do not have a a good reason, then we remain where we started.

I suspect you know you don't have a good reason, which is why you don't want to share it. If this is not the case, feel free to prove me wrong.

Herein lies the problem. What if what I believe to be an entirely good reason is useless to you?

I believe in God because I've talked to him and seen shit that defies any kind of scientific explanation. Is this good enough for you? Probably not, and so we're right back where we started.

If the "Big Bang" theory is correct. .000000001 just that far off then no life would ever live on this planet...

Of course for all i know we could be in a fish bowl for an alien. Kinda like an ant farm...

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

I believe in God because I've talked to him and seen shit that defies any kind of scientific explanation. Is this good enough for you? Probably not, and so we're right back where we started.

I've talked to people and seen things that weren't there.

The difference between the two of us is that I realise the human brain is easily affected by things both internal and external.

There are Christian writings that reffer to "The Rest of God" or entering into "God's Rest" It comes from the complete stillness that one feels in Union with God, in the Yogic tradition the Rest is related to the Crown(7th.) Chakra, similar concpets can lead to a possible interpreation of the creation myth itself, the microcosim/macrocosim of Adam/Eve/The Garden and so on. I think the Qabbalah does indeed take up on this, but I don't know much about it from that perspective.