People go on about how God and such is illogical, but most religous systems and beliefs aren't illogical. They may not have ultimate proof to show to anyone else, but that doesn't mean the beliefs are illogical within themselves.

Spirituality is in fact very logical. It's a nice neat package that wraps up all you know about life and elaborates upon it and shows you how it relates to god and yourself. It explains things in a very logical way and that's why it's not so unbelievable once you've researched it. The only thing you're left to ponder is the "proof" part, but there are explanations as to how it can be proven. Unfortionately you can only do this yourself, for yourself. IE: Searching within.

If your are a part of god (Ie: you are soul which is part of the greater soul), then by seeing the soul that is you in its pure form you are also seeing god.

Unfortionately it's difficult to see the soul in its pure form because our minds are covered by false ideas about who we really are (Ego). Society doesn't make it any easier since it's constantly filling our minds with thoughts about who we ought to be, what we should do, how we can contribute, what we should buy. We don't have time to reflect on ourselves so we're constantly living a life of "thinking" that's distracting us from seeing who we really are.

This is where meditation comes in. Meditation is a way to reflect back on ourselves and see all the bullshit that's been imprinted on our minds. The more me meditate the deeper we can go and so the more garbage we can find. After identifying all the shit clinging to our minds we can eventually 'let go' of all our attachments to this garbage, and the what's left is purity. What's left is the soul. You will know your true self and (If what they say is true) know god aswell.

Props on the meditation advice, I do it all the time, but came to a different conclusion. I just think that people couldn't explain the things that went on around them, or they were too afraid of death to even think about it, or were afraid of facing the world alone, so they thought "hey, someone else must have done all this, musta been a nice guy, I feel better."

Meditation is a waste of time for me. It just doesn't work. I don't know why but its absolutly useless, no matter how much I try [and I've tried a lot] I just end up laying there with thoughts running through my head. I can't stop them. Oh well.

Meditation isn't necessarily stopping your thoughts. It's cutting off your 5 senses so that you can focus on whatever you need, and if it is your thoughts, then so be it.

^ That's true, but if you can focus on your thoughts, then you can more easily realise whether or not they are truths.

quote:Originally posted by SEN D-F:

Meditation is a waste of time for me. It just doesn't work. I don't know why but its absolutly useless, no matter how much I try [and I've tried a lot] I just end up laying there with thoughts running through my head. I can't stop them. Oh well.

It works for everyone. If it's not working then you're trying too much too soon. It's like football. Even if you are completely useless at it you still get better when you practice.

With constant meditation, even if you can never focus, you still get the experience of wanting to focus but not being able to. Eventually you recognise that feeling. You will also recognise the state of mind that you experience when you have a "better" meditation, and eventually you can focus on that feeling.

It all gradually improves your focus and your abilities of perception.

[This message has been edited by ---Beany--- (edited 02-28-2004).]

Damn i just had the biggest deja vu(sp?) ever it was for like a whole minute, crazy stuff.

Ya i really have trouble beliveing all the stuff about religon theres some much that can and cant be taking literaly but ya ive never tryed to meditate or anything like that i'll look some stuff up on i and give it a go. Thanks for the advice on the meditaion.

damn that was some crazy deja vu(sp?!

quote:Originally posted by ---Beany---:

[People go on about how God and such is illogical, but most religous systems and beliefs aren't illogical.

Without the historical and spiritual baggage, I'm with you. Moral and ideology-based package deals are fine, though they lead to dogmatic thinking.

My problem starts when you try to claim something exists when you haven't a shred of evidence.

Like I said the evidence is found within. And even if you find that there is no god the meditation will still remove all of the thoughts and beliefs that you have that prevents your happiness from blooming. Either way you can't really lose with meditation.

quote:Originally posted by Craftian:

Without the historical and spiritual baggage, I'm with you. Moral and ideology-based package deals are fine, though they lead to dogmatic thinking.





I'm not a big fan of people belonging to religeons. It's totally better imo to explore spirituality and religeons with an open mind and stay versatile to ideas that may appeal to you. People who belong to religeons tend to be afraid to doubt them. They become attached to it and wanna hold onto it tightly.

Thats one of the biggest reasons Christianity is so big. So many people are born into it and have little choice about learning about it through their parents, or church until they get older. But when they get older, even if they only believe it on a minor level the idea of Hell is will keep them from letting go of it. They fear what they've been taught.

I don't know about others, but I wouldn't wanna be part of a religion that holds onto so many people simply because they're afraid of it.

I 100% agree.