quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:
Well I've taken a neutral approach to belief in gods, i don't seek to worship I just seek belief.
What's the point of looking for God if you don't do anything about it once you've found him?
These beings are superior to humans in everyway, and they are far intelligent any of them to ever try and overthrow God. Satan was truly barred from heaven because he placed man over God. not because he wanted to takeover heaven.
Actually, that's not true.
Isaiah 14:12-14 :
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how are thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
And a much cooler-sounding verse, Ezekiel 28:12-19 :
Son of man, take up a lament concerning the kind of Tyre and say to him: This is what the Sovereign LORD says: 'You were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
You were in Eden, the garden of God; every previous stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald, chrysolite, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared.
You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones.
You were blameless in your ways from teh day you were created till wickedness was found in you.
Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones.
Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to the earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings.
By your many sins and dishonest trade you have desecrated your sanctuaries. So I made a fire come out from you, and it consumed you, and I reduced you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching.
All the nations who knew you are appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and will be no more."
This points out that Lucifer was of the Cherubim, not the Archangels. There are nine orders of angels, and I would recite them if I felt like going across the room to get my copy of Paradise Lost.
It doesn't make since that Satan is the instrument. God could surely do what ever he wanted with a thought. I don't think the instrument part has the ring of "Truth".
He got the job done, didn't he?
I think Satan did something to piss God off so he sent him into Hell as a charge, as punishment. Fire and brimstone doesn't make since at all. I think his charge is to find away to make those who enter eligible for heaven.
<OL TYPE=a><LI>Yea, I'd be pissed if a servant of mine came at me with an army, too.
<LI>Satan's a nightclub bouncer, then?
</OL>
Whatever Satan did to piss God off is the thing that made God call Satan his adversary.
Yea. He fought him in the war. That makes him, by definition of the word 'adversary,' his 'adversary.'
Remember in Job the sons of God came before Him. And Satan was there. God spoke to as though He enjoyed speaking to him. Like they did it often.
CG Jung states that Satan is actually the fourth part of the Trinity, so it would make sense that they were still in communication. Every person technically has some communication with the dark part of their selves, even though they are adverse to the way we want to act. Wanting to have sex with an attractive woman regardless of consent is a thought that can pop into someone's head; doesn't make it a good idea.
I think God uses Satan by making him His adversary. So when ever something bad happens people will blame Satan. Thus making God the exact opposite.
I think that's the long way around, isn't it?
Omniscient means all knowing-in a nut shell.
My thing is I don't think he is, simply because in Job, He has to ask Satan where he's been. That alone is proof that he's not omniscient.
Why? God asked where Adam and Eve were when they hid from them in Eden, even though he was fully aware of where they were.
For further evidence, He also then lets Satan do whatever to Job. Simply because He did'nt know what would happen.
And you don't think that it was possible that, since Job eventually benefitted from the conflict, that God knew what was going to happen from the beginning, and therefore let Job be tested?
I think you need to do more reading, in the real bible(hebrew) it is said that Satan thinks to highly of man.
I don't read Hebrew, so if you have a site that directly translates from Hebrew, I'd like to see it.
And by saying were not perfect, your giving proof that nor is God, so they(we) did become like Him and it wasn't deceit at all. How so you might ask. Well Satan has "deceaved" God as well.
What makes you think it wasn't God's intention to make it so that we fuck up?
Keep in mind I don't consider myself a Christian, but I don't like it when opposition to Christianity is based on misconception.
[ED: Tag fuckup]
[This message has been edited by Tyrant (edited 03-13-2004).]
Ok listen closely you stupid peice of shit. I said they(angels) were supirior to humans in every way(meaning physically and intellectually way) and any average dumbass could have concluded that if they would have finished reading the message.(your the acception to that I guess). Of course they're smarter how can they not be they're the Watchers.
Now logically ppl should be able to conclude that a creature of that magnetude would know they're limits and now that they couldn't beat God.
I want to know about God or who ever the hell made us because I'm an intellectual and I'd like to know these things. Why the hell should I or anyone else who wants to know who made us,seek that knowledge only to worship that being. That's pious stupid ideology.
I want to know who made me, to know. I don't like not knowing. And I'm damn sure the other billions of ppl on this planet would love that peice of knowledge as well. if they didn't it wouldn't be such a big fucking argument about it now.
And your little peice of shit from Isaiah 14:12-14, lets see isn't that in the King James edition. Why the hell would you even use that to back up your argument when in those days KINGS used the bible to control the populous nothing more.
That's why I said try reading the Hebrew version. of course every story sounds better when there is a good guy and a bad guy. Why don't you try using logic when you peice together the bible. you'll find that it doesn't make since. So it's up to the intelligent to make since of it in their own minds.
Now plz do tell me how in the bloody hell could you possibly know that He knew where Adam and Eve was.
If God knew everything He would have known that Satan would betray Him(which I don't think happened) before He made Him. Thus knowing full well that He'd call Him His adversary, and furthermore knowing He'd use Satan.
By making Him take the blame for what ever went wrong anytime wrong was done. Making Himself appear to be Great. Because no one would else besides Satan would ACUSSE Him!
And you have to be the dumbest self righteous Jackass I have ever given the time of day. How in dee hell can you say Job benefitted when his whole entire fucken family was slaughtered so that God could nievely try and prove a point.
What great benefits did he get that trumped the slow death of all his sons and daughters, ruin of his estate, and torture to himself. not even Heaven is a good enough prize for that shit.
And if God wanted us to FUCK UP he wouldn't have made so many stupid fucken conditions to get into heaven.(Or so the Bible says)
And I was once taught that there were three types of archangels called the First Sphere,they were the-Seraphim
Ophanim(Thrones)
And the Cherubs-these three were the watchers
[This message has been edited by Metalligod (edited 03-13-2004).]
[This message has been edited by Metalligod (edited 03-13-2004).]
[This message has been edited by Metalligod (edited 03-13-2004).]