Darn, I promised myself I would not get involved with this scary forum but I must spead my idea.

When you pass by a hobo or a begger on the street do you give him some money? Any money at all for any reason or for no reason whatsoever other than his/her positions as a hobo/begger? They would probably like to have some spending money to live better in a small way but any way. If you answered "no" then when you pray why should the higher being AKA "God" answer your prayer? For any reason or for no reason at all. You are like the begger who wants to make something better in his/her or somebody elses life be it praying for you to have more money or for you friend to come get well and not die in the hospital. Is my arguement valid? I believe so. Let the angry christians commence.

Actually, I do give beggers money, and I agree with you partially. The Bible says that Christians can aproach God as his children, but agree with you, why should He help us if we don't help others?

Jesus says in the Bible that helping anyone is helping Him, and harming anyone is harming him.

The purpose of prayer is not to beg for things you don't deserve. God answers prayers for oppurtunities to do God's work. Ask God for an oppurtunity to bring him glory and you can bet it will be answered, but ask God for the winning lottery ticket and you will probably go home empty handed.

When you give a beggar money for doing nothing but sitting there you are positively reinforcing negative behavior. By giving you are actually harming them not helping by saying its all right to do nothing except live off of the good will of society. If there was a god, I do not think he would even want me to give money to that beggar. Now, giving money to a shelter, taking them beneath your wings and actually helping them is a totally different story. if you were to help them and actually take time out of your busy day instead of paying them to get away from you, you would be doing what i believe god would want you to do.

there is one reason why God should answer your prayers if you don't give money to a beggar on the street.

St. Francis was a beggar.

Depending on what you beleive I suppose God seemed to like Him.

Other than that theBishop and PopeDave have got it.

Jesus wanted us to give up everything.

It's important to note though this is not just concerning material things, given in love and not for return.

He said we should life like to bird in the trees, with complete trust in God. You might think that if everybody did this, then the world would faulter, but if everybody was like Jesus, or even just a little bit less, what would we have to worry about?

If you saw somebody you loved living on the sreets what would you do? This is how you should treat all homeless people, and how you should love them. How sweet. Would the world be.

"As you give so you receive" P.H.

quote:Originally posted by Mojo Hojo:

Darn, I promised myself I would not get involved with this scary forum but I must spread my idea.



http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif) Haha, is that how the outside people see us? hehe

I like your post.

[This message has been edited by ---Beany--- (edited 04-05-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Mojo Hojo:

Darn, I promised myself I would not get involved with this scary forum but I must spead my idea.

When you pass by a hobo or a begger on the street do you give him some money? Any money at all for any reason or for no reason whatsoever other than his/her positions as a hobo/begger? They would probably like to have some spending money to live better in a small way but any way. If you answered "no" then when you pray why should the higher being AKA "God" answer your prayer? For any reason or for no reason at all. You are like the begger who wants to make something better in his/her or somebody elses life be it praying for you to have more money or for you friend to come get well and not die in the hospital. Is my arguement valid? I believe so. Let the angry christians commence.

No. Your arguement is not valid. We are mortals, without money/food/shelter we die. God on the other hand is ominipitent, he is almighty. Where as our money is what keeps us alive and well, God's power is unlimited. (or so im told)

[This message has been edited by slasher_13 (edited 04-06-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by slasher_13:

No. Your arguement is not valid. We are mortals, without money/food/shelter we die. God on the other hand is ominipitent, he is almighty. Where as our money is what keeps us alive and well, God's power is unlimited. (or so im told)

[This message has been edited by slasher_13 (edited 04-06-2004).]

True but, To the hobos and beggars when Bill Gates is walking through the slums to them he is a god in comparison. It is his godly choice weather to give the hobos some money or else with a shelter or food they will die very soon. As with a loved one. You can ask god to help heal the sick but it is his godly choice weather or not to heal them and without this healment the loved one will die. Seems the same to me but on a different scale.

quote:Originally posted by Mojo Hojo:

Darn, I promised myself I would not get involved with this scary forum but I must spead my idea.

When you pass by a hobo or a begger on the street do you give him some money? Any money at all for any reason or for no reason whatsoever other than his/her positions as a hobo/begger? They would probably like to have some spending money to live better in a small way but any way. If you answered "no" then when you pray why should the higher being AKA "God" answer your prayer? For any reason or for no reason at all. You are like the begger who wants to make something better in his/her or somebody elses life be it praying for you to have more money or for you friend to come get well and not die in the hospital. Is my arguement valid? I believe so. Let the angry christians commence.

As an agnostic, I feel that I can speak from a fairly objective standpoint of these matters.

You say in the post above mine, that Bill Gates is a 'god among men' of sorts to these beggars. The thing you're missing is that to Christians, there are two sentient beings in the world: Man, and God.

What you do is imperfect by definition, and what God does is perfect by definition. Therefore, everything you do can affect everything else in uncertain ways, whereas everything God does affects everything else in certain ways.

Would you give to a beggar if you knew he was just a wino? Probably not. Since you're not omnipotent, you can't be sure.

I hope that answers your question; I understand it was a little bit vague, but that's the best I can muster.

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/

bill gates has Chosen a way to help the pore and suffering people in a way which you will never be able to out match I absolutely guarantee it.

Now are you arguing that all those evil Christians who give nothing to society should be called down off there high hoarse? I personally do not know a single Christian organization, probably because I know very few Christian organizations, that don't give something back to there community. all of the churches I know have some kind of out reach program to feed the homeless or to shelter the week no matter what financial situation they are in. in fact I will bet that the people who volunteer there time to the soup halls and out reach programs are very much endowed with Jesus' love.

How much money did you give to the homeless last year? how much time did you spend giving them shelter? how much attention did you give to the sick and dying?

before accusing others look at yourself.

What does it matter if Mojo gives money to the poor? His point is that people shouldn't expect God to do for them what they refuse to do for others, and I completely agree. He may be an atheist, so he may not pray for shit from God...so your point is invalid. Being as Christians quite often pray for help from God, and beggars quite often beg for help from Christians, his point is valid, despite his own reputation, or lack thereof in charitable matters.

Hexadecimal,

It matters to the poor if they dont get mojo's help. it mattters to society.

His point is not that, at least in the way he is saying it, people shouldn't expect God to do things for them if refuse to do for others it is that people who don't give money to the poor shouldn't pray. your point is that people shouldn't expect God to do for them what they refuse to do for others, and I completely agree. this might be mojo's point also but i have not gotten it from what he has said about the poor.

Mojo makes a good point.

Any christians who got angry by his post, read James 2:14-26

quote:Originally posted by PopeDave:

Hexadecimal,

It matters to the poor if they dont get mojo's help. it mattters to society.

His point is not that, at least in the way he is saying it, people shouldn't expect God to do things for them if refuse to do for others it is that people who don't give money to the poor shouldn't pray. your point is that people shouldn't expect God to do for them what they refuse to do for others, and I completely agree. this might be mojo's point also but i have not gotten it from what he has said about the poor.

Not really, my point is to question the reasons for praying when it is very common that an average person would pretend to not see a less fortunate human being. Anyways other people have the right idea and no I myself do not actively donate because mainly I live in a decent neighborhood and have not started high school thus not able to have any well paying job. But this question is not about me it is to people who pray AND at the same time answer "no" to the question in the first post. This is more of a "think about it" question than a finger pointing contest. Pretty much i am quiet happy with the results up to now. Happy day to you all.

Edit: Also to PopeDave, about the link, Bill gates is a general example I used of a person with lots of personal spending money and a choice. There are many people that have money and are undeserving of it and just as many that do deserve it. I understand that people as humans are not perfect that is why this entire topic is theoritical and I am in a curious way sending some thoughts into another place and seeing how the residents of that place react to these thoughts. As i mentioned a paragraph or more up I am interested and happy with the way things are going here. Hopefully no verbal riots will start.

[This message has been edited by Mojo Hojo (edited 04-07-2004).]

Bump