all these religiouns keep telling me that god gave us free will to do whatever we wanted and that this was one of his greatest gifts and that he had to create hell because of it. thing i cant get around is that he then gave us rules to follow. "Worship me or go to hell", "confess or go to hell" "give all your money to a religious group so they can make more golden crosses or go to hell". If god really gave us free will then he couldnt have imposed rules on it and then created hell or its not free. its a will sure but its basically like saying to your son "Son you can do anything you want, i give you this choice but if you dont do exactly what I say then i'm gonna beat the living crap out of you!!!" To me it doesn't seem very free at all.

don't confuse religion with god- "confess" and "give me your money" are religious things.

And once (when i was younger, and the first seeds of doubt were appearing) i asked a reverend what kind of a buttkiss god (uh, this is not verbatim...) would create Hell?

And this reverend had a really clever answer for me:

"some people have suggested that Hell is merely living or existing Without God."

so those are rules that, as usual, people imposed on themselves.

but if god did create us, then he screwed us up- he ostensibly gave us free choice, but with the natural tendency towards self-preservation, tendency towards survival at the cost of others, ABSOLUTELY no direction, not the slightest clue of what we're supposed to be doing here, or why he up and created us (for entertainment?).

If you really loved someone, you'd tell them the truth, and tell them everything, and not keep them in the dark and watch with amusement, boredom or disappointment through our struggles.

This is my biggest problem with god- because if i met him, i'd probably hold him in contempt for what he's done.

What pisses me off, is one of the classic fundie sayings: everyone has fallen short of the glory of God.

I mean really... he creates us imperfect, but he expects us to be perfect, or else he will make us suffer for eternity?

and then he has to send his son to die, to protect us from HIS idiotic rules?

The dogma of Christianity just seems too ilogical to me. I am not really an atheist, but I simply can't believe most popular religions.

And the little experience of God that I have had... he/she/it does not strike me as that sort of cruel, demented, psychopath.

What rules do you make for you? Those are the only rules that the Creator puts on you.

Don't you understand, all things that you feel, think, understand, and experience, are of your own creation, collectively and individually. I'm constipated, and can't be bothered to explain further.

If we do have free will then yes we are entitled to do whatever we want, but we most be ready for those actions which could be purgatory or hell. Just most religious groups try and scare you into doing what they want. So they are the ones who take away your free will. Just for the record I don't think their is a hell only purgatory.

quote:Originally posted by ilbastardoh:

Don't you understand, all things that you feel, think, understand, and experience, are of your own creation, collectively and individually. I'm constipated, and can't be bothered to explain further.

why'd you create constipation? sick bastard.

as far as free will is concerned... god did give us free will... the free will to believe or to doubt. that's it and that's all.

it bounces back and forth, not only in religion, but also in philosophy, politics, art, and science. in everything really, there is a time to believe and a time to doubt. neither state is inherently better or worse than the other, it's simply all about timing.

for example... should one believe michael jackson when he says your child can sleep over his place in safety? or the flipside, should one waste time doubting when your child says he loves you for saying no to the freak?

quote:Originally posted by Pegunkey87:

If we do have free will then yes we are entitled to do whatever we want, but we most be ready for those actions which could be purgatory or hell. Just most religious groups try and scare you into doing what they want. So they are the ones who take away your free will. Just for the record I don't think their is a hell only purgatory.



Its interesting.

'You can do what you want, but you have to choose this if you don't want to suffer purgatory/hell'

Essentially its an ultimatum. You have the choice to do what you want, but unless you want to suffer you have to make the 'right' choice.

Perhaps we should stop calling it 'free will', but rather 'your one chance to make the choice God demands you to'..... too long I guess.

Christianity is fun, isn't it?

The best way to avoid responsibility is to say "I have resposibilities"

Okay well i go to a very small private/christian school and i've gone there since i was 3 (im now 14) and its only because my mom forces me. Well anyways they try to brainwash the shit into your head while your still young and will beleive all the bull they say and put in your books. They say that god gave us free-will because he loves us...yet authorities give us rules because they loves us, this seems completely contridicting to me. Its really sad, in my class there are 24 people....yet im the only one that doesnt beleive the shit that these fucks try to make us beleive.

We do have absolute liberty. When was the last time God came down and intervened in our affairs?

We need absolute liberty. Just imagine if God came down just before the Iraqi war and stood in the way of American troops. Or vice versa. It would create immediate bias and simply make God a by-product of popular ideology and conflict.

And just where would it stop? Should God personally resolve arguments with your siblings or friends? Just imagine how ridiculous life would be with that kind of pressure on your back in every dispute.

Gods rules are unbreakable. The rules of man aren't. Break, break, break.

According to my experience, there are laws in this universe and those laws are adhered to wether you want to or not, evreything else is not a law, but a trap.