Okay, if God truly is up there would we not have to be God ourselves? Perhaps simply a part of him thats separated off into an individual consciousness that knows nothing of its origin?

I was just thinking about consciousness and the separate levels of power and knowledge that come with it. Now, I can only assume that every conscious being is the same on the conscious level. Sure we have different power and knowledge, but our consciousness is all the same. Like God would have more power and knowledge then us humans, us humans have more power and knowledge then a cat or something, yet that is all that separates us.

Now if thats the case, would there not have to be a power deciding over which consciousness gets which abilities? I can't so much believe that God got to be God at random, I got to be me at random and a lion got to be a lion at random. But if there was something deciding which of us get what there would have to be something above God, which kinda throws the whole concept of God off.

But, what if we're all the same? We're all the same consciousness, the same 'mind' for lack of a better word. We as humans are God and God is simply watching himself now as billions upon billions of different creatures. If we're all the same 'mind' then there would be no need for a deciding power. There is only one so theres no need to decide who gets what.

But if thats the case, theres a problem. We're a completely separate 'mind' from God. I mean, I can't move mountains or create piles of money, so there would have to be a certain level of separation from the source in order to allow me to be me, and you to be you and everyone else to be everyone else. So if we're separated from the source, can we really be considered the source 'mind'?

I suppose if the separation is not full then yes, but if its a complete separation then we're no longer God. In which case one can come to the conclusion that at one point God was the only 'mind' in existence and he simply separated his energy and made each one a separate 'mind' [obviously keeping his own energy]. I guess he could have simply created energy and made each one a separate 'mind' rather then having to take the energy from himself [he [i]is God] but could he do that? If God was at one point everything and all that existed one could argue that everything he made came from a part of him.

Now if we assume that we're God, and that every 'mind' is also God, do we ever get back to being God? Are we completely and eternally separated or are we simply separated for now to experience different things. It could be that God created all kinds of creatures so he could experience all sort of things; like being a somewhat helpless being rather then the almighty God he is. Maybe he wanted to know what it would be like to exist without his power and knowledge. I guess if hes God hed already have to know, but perhaps knowing simply isn't the same as experiencing. For example, one can read everything they could ever find about LSD and know everything about it, but they still have never felt it and experienced an LSD high.

Would God have wanted to create separate 'minds' so he could experience eternity free from his power, or perhaps to simply experience random existences without his power? Would experiencing infinite amounts of different 'minds' separate from himself for eternity with each only lasting 80 or so years [in which case they become God again] be the same as experiencing separate minds that exist eternally separate from him? I would think that it would get the same effect while at the same time I think it would not. He would be able to eternally [or for however he wanted to] experience separation from himself, but thats not really the same as experiencing eternal separation.

But even if we're eternally separated from God, could we still become him again at one point? By definition eternity is forever; an infinite amount of time with no beginning or end. But our 'minds' most definitely had a beginning, so does that mean we're not destined for an eternity of not being God? Even if you want to argue that despite our minds having a beginning we could still be destined for separation forever, God is ultimately in control of everything. He can decide at any point to end time and destroy all of existence aside from himself [sort of like wiping the slate clean]. I guess if he ever decides to do that, an we're nothing more then separated parts of him, we would have to just come back. Return to the source.

So could it be a possibility that when we die, or at least at some point become God? Like I die, and I remain in the same conscious state, only now Im God because I have returned to my source. The little bit of energy I am floats back to the source and my consciousness then returns to its source state where I exist as God [yet its as if no change has occurred aside from the growth of power and knowledge], simply waiting for every other separate part of me to return.

I suppose there are so many possibilities with this, but I just think it would be so great for all of us if we could become God. Hell, maybe our next choice can be to eternally separate our self into multiple Gods with the exact same power and the knowledge of our connection rather then popping into existence completely ignorant as with our human lives. That is if God already hasn't done that.

Too Long. It makes me eyes hurt

Its about 5 minutes worth of reading. Not that long at all if you ask me. Don't be lazy; if you're interested in knowing what its about read it.

Im sure you'll find 'My God Can Beat the Shit Out of Your God' isn't a good forum for you if you have a problem reading long posts.

quote:Originally posted by SEN D-F:

Now if thats the case, would there not have to be a power deciding over which consciousness gets which abilities? I can't so much believe that God got to be God at random, I got to be me at random and a lion got to be a lion at random. But if there was something deciding which of us get what there would have to be something above God, which kinda throws the whole concept of God off.

But God wasn't created. Nor do I think He is as personal as the Bible makes Him out to be.

quote:Originally posted by SEN D-F:

I suppose if the separation is not full then yes, but if its a complete separation then we're no longer God. In which case one can come to the conclusion that at one point God was the only 'mind' in existence and he simply separated his energy and made each one a separate 'mind' [obviously keeping his own energy]. I guess he could have simply created energy and made each one a separate 'mind' rather then having to take the energy from himself [he is God] but could he do that? If God was at one point everything and all that existed one could argue that everything he made came from a part of him.

I thought it was already well documented from theists and especially Christians that God made man in His likeness.

quote:Originally posted by SEN D-F:

Now if we assume that we're God, and that every 'mind' is also God, do we ever get back to being God? Are we completely and eternally separated or are we simply separated for now to experience different things.

All human beings and indeed mammals are linked. Does that mean that eventually, we should all become one? I think we should look upon God as a different entity to ourselves, but in a similar manner to the way we look upon our own brethren as being integrally different to ourselves.

quote:Originally posted by SEN D-F:

Would God have wanted to create separate 'minds' so he could experience eternity free from his power, or perhaps to simply experience random existences without his power? Would experiencing infinite amounts of different 'minds' separate from himself for eternity with each only lasting 80 or so years [in which case they become God again] be the same as experiencing separate minds that exist eternally separate from him?

This sounds as if we are part of a game, a possible solution to a bored God? Could be...

I personally believe in a Creator who loves creation and has foresight of self prevailing life with liberty and aptitude in mind.

quote:Originally posted by SEN D-F:

So could it be a possibility that when we die, or at least at some point become God? Like I die, and I remain in the same conscious state, only now Im God because I have returned to my source. The little bit of energy I am floats back to the source and my consciousness then returns to its source state where I exist as God [yet its as if no change has occurred aside from the growth of power and knowledge], simply waiting for every other separate part of me to return.

"my consciousness then returns to its source state where I exist as God"

Wouldn't this imply that there is, potentially, an infinite amount of differential consciousness within God Himself? Instead of the one body of consciousness that is God, which has become something of a general consensus?

quote:Originally posted by SEN D-F:

I just think it would be so great for all of us if we could become God.

It would if we could link into God's infinite wisdom and energy and learn from it. And then link back out and still be our own, individual entity but with a shared experience and understanding with God and our kind.

Okay, if God truly is up there would we not have to be God ourselves? Perhaps simply a part of him thats separated off into an individual consciousness that knows nothing of its origin?

I was just thinking about consciousness and the separate levels of power and knowledge that come with it. Now, I can only assume that every conscious being is the same on the conscious level. Sure we have different power and knowledge, but our consciousness is all the same. Like God would have more power and knowledge then us humans, us humans have more power and knowledge then a cat or something, yet that is all that separates us.

Now if thats the case, would there not have to be a power deciding over which consciousness gets which abilities?

No, that's the role God plays.

I can't so much believe that God got to be God at random, I got to be me at random and a lion got to be a lion at random. But if there was something deciding which of us get what there would have to be something above God, which kinda throws the whole concept of God off.

No, because with that logic, you could say, "Well, what created the force that decides who is God and who is Man, and who is Animal? And who created that force? And that one? And that one?" I think it's better to use an Occam's razor on that one and just accept God as God.

But, what if we're all the same? We're all the same consciousness, the same 'mind' for lack of a better word. We as humans are God and God is simply watching himself now as billions upon billions of different creatures. If we're all the same 'mind' then there would be no need for a deciding power. There is only one so theres no need to decide who gets what.

But if thats the case, theres a problem. We're a completely separate 'mind' from God. I mean, I can't move mountains or create piles of money, so there would have to be a certain level of separation from the source in order to allow me to be me, and you to be you and everyone else to be everyone else. So if we're separated from the source, can we really be considered the source 'mind'?

In consistency with your theory, that would be like assuming that, since water dripped out of a bottle onto the floor and evaporated, the water on the floor is intrinsically separated from the water in the bottle, and is therefore no longer water. Its chemical composition is a little different, but the elements are the same.

I suppose if the separation is not full then yes, but if its a complete separation then we're no longer God. In which case one can come to the conclusion that at one point God was the only 'mind' in existence and he simply separated his energy and made each one a separate 'mind' [obviously keeping his own energy]. I guess he could have simply created energy and made each one a separate 'mind' rather then having to take the energy from himself [he [i]is God] but could he do that? If God was at one point everything and all that existed one could argue that everything he made came from a part of him.

Now I see your point a little more clearly, in which case I am declined to disagree with your original thesis. Limiting God to a finite set of elements prevents the acceptance of omnipresence self-evident in the concept of God. In fact, I don't believe God relies on energy in order to exist. Energy is a measurable force. God is not.

Now if we assume that we're God, and that every 'mind' is also God, do we ever get back to being God? Are we completely and eternally separated or are we simply separated for now to experience different things. It could be that God created all kinds of creatures so he could experience all sort of things; like being a somewhat helpless being rather then the almighty God he is. Maybe he wanted to know what it would be like to exist without his power and knowledge. I guess if hes God hed already have to know, but perhaps knowing simply isn't the same as experiencing. For example, one can read everything they could ever find about LSD and know everything about it, but they still have never felt it and experienced an LSD high.

Depends on how much power you have over the brain. All LSD does is imitate serotonin. If you can psychically control your serotonin flow - and certain psychological training CAN allow you to do that - then you can experience the coveted LSD high.

But more to the point that you brought up - I think a fatal flaw you're accepting a priori is personifying God. God is not a human being, 'created in His image' does not mean that we look like God or vice versa, and God, by nature of neither having nor needing a brain, does not succumb to the same neurophysiological impulses the rest of us humans deal with, like curiosity, jealousy, or sorrow.

Having said that, I doubt he was 'curious' as to what he would be like as a separate entity.

Would God have wanted to create separate 'minds' so he could experience eternity free from his power, or perhaps to simply experience random existences without his power? Would experiencing infinite amounts of different 'minds' separate from himself for eternity with each only lasting 80 or so years [in which case they become God again] be the same as experiencing separate minds that exist eternally separate from him? I would think that it would get the same effect while at the same time I think it would not. He would be able to eternally [or for however he wanted to] experience separation from himself, but thats not really the same as experiencing eternal separation.

Isn't it safe to assume that God is beyond time, simply because He is God? Eternity bends at His will - what need would he have for an experiment like this?

But even if we're eternally separated from God, could we still become him again at one point? By definition eternity is forever; an infinite amount of time with no beginning or end. But our 'minds' most definitely had a beginning, so does that mean we're not destined for an eternity of not being God? Even if you want to argue that despite our minds having a beginning we could still be destined for separation forever, God is ultimately in control of everything. He can decide at any point to end time and destroy all of existence aside from himself [sort of like wiping the slate clean]. I guess if he ever decides to do that, an we're nothing more then separated parts of him, we would have to just come back. Return to the source.

Ah, now we're getting to an interesting point.

Now, for the record, whenever I mention God, I refer to what Carl Jung would call the Self archetype or the Collective Unconscious, what Julius Evola would call the Essence of Traditional Civilization, what Savitri Devi would call the fusion of the Lightning and the Sun, what Akhnaton would call the Holy Disk, what Hindus call Akshara the Imperishable, what Lao Tsu would call the Ten Thousand Things, what the Scandinavians would call the World Tree Yggdrasil, what Aldous Huxley would call the Perennial Philosophy, what Nietzsche would call the Will to Power, what Buddhists would call the balance of Yin and Yang - you get the idea. Not the Christian idea of a big bearded guy with a big book and a feather pen that looks suspiciously like Ian McKellan in Lord of the Rings.

As for humanity, my perspective coincides with a quote from Nietzsche:

Man is something to be overcome. What have you done to overcome man?

-from Thus Spake Zarathustra

He also said that man is in fact a conduit between beast and god (also from TSZ, but I'm too lazy to go across the room and get my Portable Nietzsche). Julius Evola also spent a lot of time discussing transcending the physical plane, as can be seen in his volume Introduction to Magic. And, as I've said before, one of my favorite quotes comes from a poster on a Scandinavian culture forum:

The Way to the Gods is to be Prosperous (Ing and Freya), Mighty (Donar), Just (Tiw), and Wise (Wotan). Get a decent job, train for battle, live with honor, and know thyself. This is the least you can do as a practicing Heathen.

Hail Grimwulf!

I believe that, through serious consideration of individual consciousness, communication with the collective unconscious, physical purity, and mental fortitude, a human being can transcend to the status of a god, which is far beyond what the human mob is today. However, this is much different from being the original and omnipresent God.

So could it be a possibility that when we die, or at least at some point become God? Like I die, and I remain in the same conscious state, only now Im God because I have returned to my source. The little bit of energy I am floats back to the source and my consciousness then returns to its source state where I exist as God [yet its as if no change has occurred aside from the growth of power and knowledge], simply waiting for every other separate part of me to return.

I believe more in the birth-life-death-resurrection circle than having a temporary consciousness once in one's spiritual existence. I don't really think we go back to God, per se, but we stay in the circle. Because that's effectively both what we're supposed to do, and all we can do.

I suppose there are so many possibilities with this, but I just think it would be so great for all of us if we could become God. Hell, maybe our next choice can be to eternally separate our self into multiple Gods with the exact same power and the knowledge of our connection rather then popping into existence completely ignorant as with our human lives. That is if God already hasn't done that.

All in all, a good stream of consciousness and ideas, and I'm glad you think so deeply into it. Sure would be nice to be God, but maybe, as you said, we already are.

ok i didnt read any of that, but

yes we are god. god created man in his own image. in everyway.

quote:Originally posted by The Crusader:

But God wasn't created. Nor do I think He is as personal as the Bible makes Him out to be.

Its not that he had to be created, but if he ever had a beginning at all. Many feel that God has always existed and always will, but thats simply a matter for debate. And I agree, I don't think God is as personal as the Bible says, but Im not sure what that has to do with what I said.

quote:Originally posted by The Crusader:

I thought it was already well documented from theists and especially Christians that God made man in His likeness.

Sure, many believe that but its by no means fact. And even if you believe that 'God created man in his image' that can be taken a few ways. Some may argue that it means we look like God, some may argue that it means we were created from a part of God, and so on. The point is Im sure an argument can be made that we'reentirly seperate from God, and thats what Im trying to go against.

quote:Originally posted by The Crusader:

All human beings and indeed mammals are linked. Does that mean that eventually, we should all become one? I think we should look upon God as a different entity to ourselves, but in a similar manner to the way we look upon our own brethren as being integrally different to ourselves.

But different doesn't necessarilly mean seperate does it? I mean, we're all obviously different but that doesn't mean we're seperate, and thats the point Im trying to make. And I feel it goes all the way from the tiniest fish all the way up to God.

quote:Originally posted by The Crusader:

Wouldn't this imply that there is, potentially, an infinite amount of differential consciousness within God Himself? Instead of the one body of consciousness that is God, which has become something of a general consensus?

You could see it that way. However what I was trying to say was that when we die, we merge into the one consciousness that is God. We don't feel any seperation from who we were in our life, because that would be the point of what God did, to have knowledge of the experience. It would be like a rush of knowledge and power would be added to what we currently know, or thats how it would feel. In reality we would simply be merging into our one original 'mind'.

quote:Originally posted by The Crusader:

It would if we could link into God's infinite wisdom and energy and learn from it. And then link back out and still be our own, individual entity but with a shared experience and understanding with God and our kind.

Yeah, that would be good too. I suppose we could sit here for hours coming up with different ideas that would be great though.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

No, that's the role God plays.

Yes, but what I was trying to say was the if God had a beginning [which is a matter for debate] would it not make sense that there are only two options; 1: He got to be God at random, 2: Something decided he got to be God? I guess you could argue that something did infact choose to let God be God and when he became God he merged with whatever that was, so essentially the original entity simply decided to make itself God.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

No, because with that logic, you could say, "Well, what created the force that decides who is God and who is Man, and who is Animal? And who created that force? And that one? And that one?" I think it's better to use an Occam's razor on that one and just accept God as God.

True, it could become an infinite cycle of the same basic question. However if we bring in Occam's razor we're faced with a problem. Would Occam's razor not go beyond the concept of God and state that its more likely God simply doesn't exist and that we created him for ourselves ? But I do see what you mean, and it makes sense. However I guess what I said just above this could fix the problem. Basically that would turn the infinite questions of which entity did what into a question of Gods original state and how he came to be the power he is.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

In consistency with your theory, that would be like assuming that, since water dripped out of a bottle onto the floor and evaporated, the water on the floor is intrinsically separated from the water in the bottle, and is therefore no longer water. Its chemical composition is a little different, but the elements are the same.

You're right. What I was saying was more of a question then a statement. I agree with you fully however, and what you said only stengthens my argument [if we did infact originate from God we still are and always will be him is essence only in a different form. However the question remains if we will get back to him].

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

Now I see your point a little more clearly, in which case I am declined to disagree with your original thesis. Limiting God to a finite set of elements prevents the acceptance of omnipresence self-evident in the concept of God. In fact, I don't believe God relies on energy in order to exist. Energy is a measurable force. God is not.

True, but then the question still remains of whether or not he created us [and all 'minds'] from himself.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

Depends on how much power you have over the brain. All LSD does is imitate serotonin. If you can psychically control your serotonin flow - and certain psychological training CAN allow you to do that - then you can experience the coveted LSD high.

Well, theres a LOT more to it then that. Of course placebo effects of drugs indicate that ones brain can infact imitate a high, however simply being able to control seritonin would not allow you to simulate an LSD high. LSD effects the brain in many more ways.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

But more to the point that you brought up - I think a fatal flaw you're accepting a priori is personifying God. God is not a human being, 'created in His image' does not mean that we look like God or vice versa, and God, by nature of neither having nor needing a brain, does not succumb to the same neurophysiological impulses the rest of us humans deal with, like curiosity, jealousy, or sorrow.

Having said that, I doubt he was 'curious' as to what he would be like as a separate entity.



Well, just because God doesn't exist bound to feelings and what not like humans do, does not mean he can't want to better himself. Going back up a bit you'll remember me mentioning how perhaps the whole 'infinite amount of question pertaining to origin' can be changed into trying to find Gods original state [if it wasn't what it is now] and if thats the case perhaps hes not at his final state. Once again, its a matter of whether [i]knowing what it would be like to experience soemthing is actually the same as experiencing it. Perhaps God is continuing to grow and change and we're a part of his growth of knowledge and experiences.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

Isn't it safe to assume that God is beyond time, simply because He is God? Eternity bends at His will - what need would he have for an experiment like this?

Well, I did go on to mention that God has the ability to decide when eternity is over and when time ends, so of course I agree that God is beyond time and has control over it. As for what need he would have, perhaps is as I stated above. Maybe he continues to grow and the experiences of life are a part of that. I suppose by our definition God would be at its final state so you could say that God isn't evolving and growing. Perhaps then 'God' by our definition does not exist, because he is not there yet. Hoever all of our perceptions of God and his abilities are correct, he is simply not at the final state of his existance. Another matter for debate.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

I believe that, through serious consideration of individual consciousness, communication with the collective unconscious, physical purity, and mental fortitude, a human being can transcend to the status of a god, which is far beyond what the human mob is today. However, this is much different from being the original and omnipresent God.

Yes, that would be different. However what Im saying is not that we become a God, but rather joing back with him. Though I understand that you weren't implying that I said anything different from that.