Well he doesn't, we only think he does.

In the context of this question "Bad" basically means suffering.

So the question could be rephrased "If God is all loving, why does suffering exist?"

Well in reality suffering doesn't exist. It only exists as an illusion (IE: What we falsly believe is true). We make suffering a supposed reality through our misunderstandings of life.

Pain is not a bad thing. Pain is only a sensation. Pain only becomes "suffering" when fear is added. But the fear comes from believing that we have lost or are losing something, such as a physical ability or a loved one, and believing that we can never get those things back.

In reality we can never lose anything because we are part of the entity that is everything. We don't understand that we are souls that are eternal, we can never die and we have an unbreakable connection with everything else. It's only when we are under the illusion that we can die, or that we aren't connected to anything that the fear of this turns pain into suffering.

So basically, God doesn't let bad things happen, you only choose to perceive something as bad because of the fact that you don't believe we are all eternal and whole.

EDIT: This thread is about life, not christianity

[This message has been edited by ---Beany--- (edited 04-16-2004).]

Why does god permit people in the world to suffer? Well it goes back to Genesis...when Satan challenged God. By influencing Adam and Eve to Sin-he lay down a challenge to God's right to rule, he wanted to show that Humans and angels did not need God to live. So God then allowed humans to prove that they didnt need God to make things work.

Obviously, its not working. But then God has to allow time for humans to reach a technoligical point to help allieviate world suffering. We have the potential to stop all world suffering with the technology we now have, but we aint doing that.

He also has to allow us time to generate enough ideas about governing ourselves-eg; communism, democracy, kingdoms ect-all of them on the whole have failed. So God is permitting suffering at the moment so he can prove we cant live without him.

thats the whole point of the ransom sacrifice and armageddon though...the bible says he's gonna put it all right when we ourselves can see we cant rule ourselves effectivly without him.

hope this made some sense http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

It did make sense and I like what you say.

Although for a soul to consider living without God suggests that God can't provide ultimate satisfaction. Why would someone turn away from 100% love and happiness?

In fact this is one of the most pondered of all philosophical questions in many religeons.

God does not let bad things happen. Free will is some good shit, and God don't interfere with free will, although we do. That's simply because people are stupid and are easily manipulated, even disagreeing is a form of manipulation. It may not produce the desired effect but it's still manipulation.

I just find it funny that people try to explain and argue things that can't be argued or explained, let alone with words.

All the "bad" things that "happen to you" are a direct result of your interaction, and the interactions of other humans, with each other. You want bad things to stop happening at least from your perspective? Then stop being "bad," whatever that is. Though, if you want to lash out in incredible vengance because someone looked at you with "disrespect" then you can do that too. Remember free will? That means that no one can tell you to do anything, nor should you comprimise what you feel is right because it's not apporpriate. That's where suffering comes from. The act of going against what you feel deep down. You want to tell that girl you like her, you want to kick your boss in the face, you want to run down the street naked even if you're an overweight hairy fat shit, but we don't do any of that, because we are contitioned to follow an "appropriate response" That my friend is the cause of suffering.

Come to TERMS motherfuckers!?!?!?!?!?!?

When everything went to shit in Genesis, the Chrisitan god could've just swatted Satan and made everything right without all the suffering that has happened since then(whether you think it happens to be an illusion or not). But no, he has to show that his creation can beat Satan for his own glory. Humans were made for his pleasure and glory. The Christian god is just an egotistical bastard.

your a little fuck, god does not exist, its just an idea made up by alter boy raping priests to keep our society from being awesome, and if god does exist, and heaven and hell, then id rather be in hell anyways cuz i can talk to god when i smoke enough pot, if you ask me, god is the "devil" and should go rape his servant priests up their asses

Now..our world has become the same shit that was prophesised in the bible. Only there's too much ignorance to do anything about it. There's no power in lies, now all you have to do is discern what's real and what's a lie. The process is easy, reality is what you are feeling everything else is how they say "bullshit."

The only obligation we have in this world is to be true to ourselves, being true to anyone else is not only impossible, but also the mark of a profiteering fuckface.

What would you lot propose? That every time an injustice is committed by humans on humans, God should suddenly materialise before your eyes and personally intervene in the matter??

How ridiculously oppressive life would be...

quote:Originally posted by The Crusader:

What would you lot propose? That every time an injustice is committed by humans on humans, God should suddenly materialise before your eyes and personally intervene in the matter??

Did you read the first post, or are you replying to someomne else?

In general...

Forgetting people for a second, what about natural disasters? What about when a volcano is about to erupt and lay waste, some god steps in to help?

Is that ridiculously oppressive?

Well you see, Mankind always, always over looks something, we neglect our own potential as a mass, if working as one we would be able to force an evolutionary response rather easily, thus eliminating any and all needs for a "God". Making us free.

quote:Originally posted by noraa_boy:

Forgetting people for a second, what about natural disasters? What about when a volcano is about to erupt and lay waste, some god steps in to help?

Is that ridiculously oppressive?

It automatically creates a precedent for when and where God should take control of what we govern. Six billion people have different expectations of just when and why God should personally intervene in any matter concerned with us. Would we expect God to stop lightning strikes in our own little patch or ban snow because a couple of people inevitably die from it each time it falls? Would we expect divine intervention from hot summers because a dozen old age pensioners can't handle the heat and end up wasting way??

It could destroy our current civilisation and governing systems to know that human beings drop to second on the food chain so to speak, and that we are no longer in absolute control of our lives and our planet. There's never been a single force or indeed a single event which everybody has agreed to. Having God come down and control certain things would cause no end of controversy. We're too egocentric, too power crazed to accept another form of dominion...we already hate our own...

what if natural disasters(tornadoes, floods, earthquakes, volcanoes) are nessecary to the balance of the earths atmosphere?

quote:Originally posted by ilbastardoh:

what if natural disasters(tornadoes, floods, earthquakes, volcanoes) are nessecary to the balance of the earths atmosphere?

For the greater good.

quote:Originally posted by ---Beany---:

…

So basically, God doesn't let bad things happen, you only choose to perceive something as bad because of the fact that you don't believe we are all eternal and whole.



It is basically irrelevant if bad things actually happen. If the overwhelming majority of the population have 'agreed' on a moral code, a set of rules that describes behavior, then to them bad things do happen. It is irrelevant if they aren't bad in reality, because to those who have agreed to those set of rules, it is bad in their ‘reality’, and if they believe in an omnipotent god, then he is letting what they believe to be bad happen.

It is about the people wanting something, and god not delivering. Simple as that.



[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 04-19-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by noraa_boy:

Forgetting people for a second, what about natural disasters? What about when a volcano is about to erupt and lay waste, some god steps in to help?

Is that ridiculously oppressive?

so is it Gods fault that men decided to inhabbit areas next to volcanoes, or earthquake prone areas? thats just mans fault. San Fransico got levelled totally by a huge earthquake, knowing there will be another huge earthquake later on, yet still rebuilds there... Is that Gods fault? Is it Gods fault that men cant distribute food around the world, or fully help countries which have drought to restore their land? we have the technology to do so, yet we are not doing it. All the more proof that we cant effectivly rule without God.

God has no knowledge or interest in our illusions, we do, and we are the only ones resposible or that should respond for our supposed stupidties.

You assume a soul is immortal and indestructible.

I assume that god is a fuck up that doesn’t care. That god is not omnipotent. That god is not all loving.

If we are made in gods image, then god is a fuck up.

If we are not made in gods image then its like humans and ants.

People know ants exist, can kill them at will and don't really care what the ants get up to as long as the ants don't piss us off.

quote:Originally posted by ilbastardoh:

God does not let bad things happen. Free will is some good shit, and God don't interfere with free will, although we do. That's simply because people are stupid and are easily manipulated, even disagreeing is a form of manipulation. It may not produce the desired effect but it's still manipulation.



I just find it funny that people try to explain and argue things that can't be argued or explained, let alone with words.

All the "bad" things that "happen to you" are a direct result of your interaction, and the interactions of other humans, with each other. You want bad things to stop happening at least from your perspective? Then stop being "bad," whatever that is. Though, if you want to lash out in incredible vengance because someone looked at you with "disrespect" then you can do that too. Remember free will? That means that no one can tell you to do anything, nor should you comprimise what you feel is right because it's not apporpriate. That's where suffering comes from. The act of going against what you feel deep down. You want to tell that girl you like her, you want to kick your boss in the face, you want to run down the street naked even if you're an overweight hairy fat shit, but we don't do any of that, because we are contitioned to follow an "appropriate response" That my friend is the cause of suffering.

Come to TERMS motherfuckers!?!?!?!?!?!?

exactly!! free will, it's called "agency" as said, we are eternal, an intelligence that can learn, we are self knowing, self determining...and we can choose. God also being an intelligence, although much further advanced still is bound by the peramiters of perfection. understanding the simple truth that you cannot take away agency from another, such would enable destruction and creation of intelligence. instead, placing them in the garden of eden, he gave them two comandments: multiply and replenish the earth, and don't eat the fucking fruit. well how the hell are they supposed to make babies if they didn't even know they were naked? Fear god is misleading. we must fear god, not because of what we don't know, but because of what we do....

we know that god must be perfect in all things. the law defines perfection, and it is in that order in which god has created all things. he must be perfeclty merciful...but also we conclude that he must be perfectly JUST. it's the law of cause and effect.

we are free to choose, but we are not free to choose the consequences.