to start off i guess i should say that i am not a christian,...or any other definable religion for that matter. Also i dont hate christians,...i only hate people who feel the need to force their beliefs on others and people who ridicule or degrade people just because they dont agree. Nor am i a bible scholar,...all that i say are things that i have retained over the few years of my life,...if you want proof go find it. Now to the point (congradulate yourself for making it this far)

a simple fact that many poeple seem to overlook is the fact that the bible was written by men,...not god,...not jesus,...men. furthermore it was written a long time ago by men that didn't speak english, therefore there is bound to be some errors/loss of meaning during translation. one of the biggest of these cases is the "virgin" mary. in the original language of the bible the word for young girl and virgin were the same,...when translated he who translated it decided to use the word virgin. this is just one example and i am willing to bet there are many other such minor changes in meaning.

Also (and the point i want to make the most) is the fact that i find it very hard to believe that the bible was written as even a close representation of what happened at any given time or place. that is to say besides the very general (the jews wandered teh desert for 40 years) there is almost no literal storytelling in the bible,...but the people and events told of are all parables which lessons can be learned from. to take the bible literally is like accepting aesop's fables as history.

that leads me to a similar point about jesus,...although many religions claim that jesus had some close relationship with god, i dont even think that a literal jesus christ (as decribed in the scriptures) existed. Actually jesus was a model for all people to aspire to, a good loving, caring, man who helped everyone he could. And i truly believe that if everyone tried to be more like "jesus" we'd be better off than following around those who use jesus as a justification to do things mr. christ would never do. want an example, well here you go,...the death of jesus took place becuase jesus turned the other cheek. he remained honest and loyal to his friends even when they would not do him the same. he died for the sins of his comrades, he made teh ultimate sacrifice for those he loved(well yeah that was everybody) and he was granted rebirth and ascencion. If you ask me this is just a way of saying that if you are devoted, loving and caring you will be given great rewards,...more then what you gave.

well thats what i think,...but then again,...what do i know

^it's also a way of getting ignorant, simplistic, dreamers to turn the other cheek when you smack them...

You're point about Mary being a "virgin"/"young girl" is pretty interesting. I'd like to check that out further.

However, I don't think the fact that the bible was written by men and it old is really a reason to discredit it (not that that's what you're doing). Most of our history relies on the accuracy of written texts. That's all we have to go by in many cases. To say that it is an argument for "the bible is the written word of God" opinion, yeah, that's true, but it's not a new argument by any stretch. Also, this is total speculation, but i don't think a lot of women were taught to read and write in the ancient word. That's only based on my public schooling so i can't say that totally confidently.

Also, i'm not sure any well-studied historian would make the argument that Jesus, the man, didn't actually exist. He appears in many old texts spiritual and secular. While he didn't leave any physical evidence behind, his cultural impact is as large as Caesar. I'm not a well-studied historian, but i've never heard one say that Jesus didn't live at least as a person.

I'm not sure i understand your point about the story-telling of the bible. Most of it, especially the new-testament is accounts and letters. It is true that Jesus told a lot of parables but the Gospels of Luke, Paul, and Mark are all eyewitness accounts. They aren't told as parables. Similarly, Corinthians and other books that are in the form of Letters are still told as factual accounts. No one would say the diary of Anne Frank was a parable. It is the same situation here, though it is admittedly much older.

I think i've said everything i need to say. Again Jesus almost certianly existed. Whether he was the son of God and all that is certainly up for debate, but i don't think any archeolgists deny his human existance.

thanks,

theBishop

In case the many people here didn't know. "God" is not an actual conscious entity. "God" as stated in the bible is merely a force of will in the universe, a tugging a pulling of the astral fabrics.

Althoug I'm quite sure Jesus was an actual person. he may have just been a well traveled and honest preture with a vast influence upon the world.

Are you trying to say that according to the bible, God isn't a conscience entity? I'd like to see some verses to back that up, because i can think of 4 off the top of my head that suggest the exact opposite.

Luke 11:1-2.

And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.

And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, "Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth..."

If God was not a conscience being, why would Jesus tell them to ask his will to be done? The answer: because God is a conscience entity. Until you can prove otherwise anyway, I'm no bible scholar.

theBishop