View Full Version : Limitations?
Metalligod
2004-04-18, 23:36
If God is an all-knowing being, how can He have free will? If God knows all, why then did He not know that the Ten Commandments, would be, or were flawed until later down the line?
If He has free will, and knows all, would He be able to change His mind on what actions to take?
If so, then would that make Him not omniscient? I ask because, I want to know if this would then prove His prior prediction to be wrong?
Now does this decision to take a different action also show a limitation of power? I ask this because power means ability, and He'd then lack the ability to know ahead of time to what choices He'd make.
If God is perfect, why then has He made so many errors in judgement, and creation? Such as: the Ten Commandments, the Death of Christ, not being able to detect evil, making a flawed creature that is supposed to be perfect, etc.
Dedicated to Ashes; is this a better way of proving my point?
Hexadecimal
2004-04-19, 02:05
And poof, there goes the Christian God in a cloud of logic.
Look up Advaita Vedanta, or just read the Bhagavad Gita.
The illusion of free will is part of the fall.
Many Jews(Qabbalahists) read the Tohar in this way, along with some Christian Saints/Mystics, also read Rumi for a Sufi perspective. If you understand "The Word" then you will understand this in some manner.
nevermind
2004-04-19, 12:29
quote:Originally posted by Metalligod:
If God is an all-knowing being, how can He have free will? If God knows all, why then did He not know that the Ten Commandments, would be, or were flawed until later down the line?
if someone knows everything...he still has free will doesnt he? if a nuclear scientist knows everything about making a nuke, its still his free will about how and what he does with this knowledge... and why are the 10 commandments flawed? please explain...
quote:
If He has free will, and knows all, would He be able to change His mind on what actions to take?
well he has changed his mind-he knows everything, yes, but then also has compassion. He offered to destroy the nation of israel and continue the seed of abraham through Moses before(cos israel were showing him no respect after all he did for them)...Moses asked him not to do it, so he didnt....
quote:
If so, then would that make Him not omniscient? I ask because, I want to know if this would then prove His prior prediction to be wrong?
if he can change his mind...why would that make him not omniscient? and there isnt a single prophecy in the bible that can be proved outright, not to be true.
quote:
Now does this decision to take a different action also show a limitation of power? I ask this because power means ability, and He'd then lack the ability to know ahead of time to what choices He'd make.
if somebody had all the power they ever wanted, then never changed there mind, or listened to anybody-they would be a dictator. like it or not, however annoying some bible commands are, they are all there for your greater good. Also, would it not be unfair for God to judge us all without us knowing the future? it wouldnt prove anything to anyone except god. This shows love, as he allows us to see proof that he is right.
quote:
If God is perfect, why then has He made so many errors in judgement, and creation? Such as: the Ten Commandments, the Death of Christ, not being able to detect evil, making a flawed creature that is supposed to be perfect, etc.
why do you say creation is flawed? look around you-the whole earth, amazing things around you...i hardly call that imperfect. Errors in judgment? So would you call something perfect if it couldnt do anything for itself, or think its own thoughts?? You can know exactly what is right to do...and still not do what is right. Its called free will-and thats why we were orginally perfect. We have all the ability to think for ourselves, and yet God lets us go about doing what we want, but provides standards for us to try to meet. Its called Government. Not being able to detect evil? Why do you think that?
Metalligod
2004-04-20, 00:03
if someone knows everything...he still has free will doesnt he?
Yeah what's your point? That wasn't my arguement.
if a nuclear scientist knows everything about making a nuke, its still his free will about how and what he does with this knowledge...
How is that relivent to what I asked?
and why are the 10 commandments flawed? please explain...
Sorry, this was my fault. I meant Convenant.
well he has changed his mind-he knows everything, yes...
Ok, then if He changed His mind, and took a different action, doesn't that mean He's not omniscient? If He took a different action then that proves His prior knowledge wrong. He did not do what He supposedly knew He would do, therefore He was wrong, thus making Him non-omniscient.
if somebody had all the power they ever wanted, then never changed there mind, or listened to anybody-they would be a dictator.
What does this have to do with anything?
Also, would it not be unfair for God to judge us all without us knowing the future?
It wouldn't be unfair, however, He'd not be omnibenevolent. This would mean that He can't truly love us all. If you loved someone, and you knew ahead of time they would take actions that will cause them to burn in hell forever, would you not try and prevent it from happening? If so then how could your truly care for them, how could you be omnibenevolent? How the hell does that show love?
why do you say creation is flawed? look around you-the whole earth, amazing things around you...
I don't mean to be rude...but, you'd have to be really stupid to think the world is not flawed. There are thousands dying everyday, countries starving, rape and a world of other horrible things going on.
Errors in judgment? So would you call something perfect if it couldnt do anything for itself, or think its own thoughts??
What does that have to do with anything I've said? What the hell does that have to do with anything I've said?
You can know exactly what is right to do...and still not do what is right.
Umm... That's called an ERROR IN JUDGEMENT!!
Its called free will-and thats why we were orginally perfect. We have all the ability to think for ourselves, and yet God lets us go about doing what we want, but provides standards for us to try to meet.
You must have vasty misunderstood everything I've posted. Because this has absolutely nothing to do with anything I've said.
Its called Government.
What the f**k, this shit is funny. I'm sorry but this has absolutely nothing to do with anything.
Not being able to detect evil? Why do you think that?
Because He didn't know that Satan, nor Ezekiel, and lot of others were evil.
Do you not read the bible?
[This message has been edited by Metalligod (edited 04-20-2004).]
Metalligod
2004-04-20, 00:05
It may seem like it but I'm not trying to be rude to anybody. So plz don't take offense to what I say.
Metalligod
2004-04-21, 03:05
I don't believe He's omniscient or omnipotent, and now have proof(if indeed the bible is truth) that He's not. And to man that should be a good thing.
I raise these questions to say only this, people shouldn't expect so much from God. God does not any of us intimately, so why should He care for us?
Going to heaven would mean the possibility of knowing Him. But I don't know God, and I don't love Him. And if I were God, I wouldn't love everyone 'Just Because' either. To love someone, I believe you have to know them intimately. I believe that any being that could just love someone without knowing them, would be a naive and ignorant being.
But again the whole point of this post was to say that ppl should not expect so much of God. I'm sure He has His own agenda, and needn't make time to plz everyone. I don't believe His goal is to plz everyone.
For, what would He have gained if everyone is made to love Him. Where then is the free will? If He wanted to make a being that just loved Him without any will own there own then it would be pointless to make us.
If He can gain the love of someone then He has gotten something of true value.(This goes for anyone)
[This message has been edited by Metalligod (edited 04-21-2004).]
if someone knows everything...he still has free will doesnt he? if a nuclear scientist knows everything about making a nuke, its still his free will about how and what he does with this knowledge
Gimme a break. Let me try to ask Met's question. I'll dumb it down for you.
God is omniscient and by definition his knowledge cannot be wrong. God knows (via his omniscience) that he will drink a glass of milk on Friday. So the question is, does God have free will in this situation? Can he choose not to drink the milk on Friday?
Maybe god being all-knowing is a lie. All powerful is something different. Think about it they do go hand and hand yet they are different, so its easy to get them mixed up. What if someone was trying to describe god and said omnipotent all powerful. A child can't lie unless it knows better. And after a lie has been carried down from generation to generation, a lie just might become true, though it is still a lie. How could anyone believe in the bible knowing that it has been edited many a time. I have the King James version.
On the other hand, have you ever known somebody so well that you just know what they are going to do. Maybe gods omnipotence is kinda like that. We are creatures of habit.
The ten commandments are bull because they can all be sumed up in two. Respect, and the sabbith.
Honestly I think we judge ourselves. God doesn't judge us because WE ARE NOT PERFECT! So asking us to be perfect is bullshit. Grace.
BD w/ Kung-Fu Grip
2004-04-21, 05:10
You have free will, because God really does not want everybody in Heaven. It was the plan all along to trick most people into going to Hell and make it very difficult to get into Heaven.
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
Matthew 7:13-14
You have to be an über-christian to get into Heaven.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arguments_for_the_existence_of_God does anyone know if the teleogical arguements are wrong or contradicting?
[This message has been edited by MIND (edited 04-21-2004).]
Hexadecimal
2004-04-21, 11:17
"Premise 1: X was intelligently designed.
Premise 2: X was not designed by humans.
Premise 3: The only conceivable beings capable of intelligent design are humans (who exist) and God (who may or may not exist).
From (3): The only conceivable beings capable of designing X in particular are humans (who exist) and God (who may or may not exist).
Recall (2): that X was not designed by humans.
If God doesn't exist, then X was also not designed by God.
Thus if God doesn't exist, then none of the conceivable beings capable of designing X designed X, in which case X was not designed at all.
Since God not existing therefore results in a contradiction of (1), God must exist."
Premise one is the only statement with faulty logic. It assumes that chaos cannot create order, when it can be clearly observed in many areas that chaos almost always breeds an order. The problem with any 'logical' argument for God's existence is that it jumps from the corporeal to ethereal, or misunderstands the corporeal, abandoning logic and nullifying itself.
Metalligod
2004-04-23, 00:33
Ashes I hope you DIE!!!
I hate to admit it, but this site has lost it's luster in my eyes. It's gotten kinda boring without your annoying input on things. It is driving me mad, come and challenge me you fuckin bastard!
PopeDave
2004-04-23, 06:16
quote:Originally posted by Metalligod:
I don't mean to be rude...but, you'd have to be really stupid to think the world is not flawed. There are thousands dying everyday, countries starving, rape and a world of other horrible things going on.
What makes any of those things Flaws?
Pope Dave, this might be a little more simplistic than what your looking for but would you personaly like to experience those situations?
I'm of the same opinion myself. But that doesn't change the fact that I wouldn't like to be, and don't like to be subjected to even relitivly painless situations. This maybe the flaw, but until you can be equaly at home in pleasure and pain there is always plus and minus'.
I'm also aware this doesn't have to be pionted out but theory is fine, in practice it is always different.
What exactly is a flaw? Something we find displeasure in?
Metalligod
2004-04-23, 19:39
quote:Originally posted by PopeDave:
What makes any of those things Flaws?
Because they are violations or another persons well-being. Thus, this cannot be a perfect world, and we cannot be perfect creatures.
Ideals of perfection is different for everyone, but no one wants do be harmed. They might want others to be harmed but not themselves, so this cannot be a perfect world, this world where everyone hurts everyone else.
Masochist want to be harmed...
Metalligod
2004-04-23, 20:58
quote:Originally posted by Rust:
Masochist want to be harmed...
-Some how, I knew someone would say that.-
However, they are looking for pleasure in the pain. Some pains feel good, but no matter how much someone likes pain. They don't want to have Real Suffering. Meaning the kind the will do severe damage to them, or cause them death.
And like I said before not everyone has the same views on perfect, therefore a perfect world could never be made.
BTW- I'm sort of a masochist so I know the difference in desirable pain, and suffering.
---Beany---
2004-04-24, 09:44
Suffering = Pain + Fear
quote:Some how, I knew someone would say that.-
However, they are looking for pleasure in the pain. Some pains feel good, but no matter how much someone likes pain. They don't want to have Real Suffering. Meaning the kind the will do severe damage to them, or cause them death.
And like I said before not everyone has the same views on perfect, therefore a perfect world could never be made.
BTW- I'm sort of a masochist so I know the difference in desirable pain, and suffering.
They are looking for pain, the pain gives them pleasure. Who are you to say they are not looking for "real suffering"? Besides, you just proved the point. Perfection is subjective, therefore you cannot say, as a maxim, that the world is flawed.
In other words, it is your subjective opinion that the world is flawed, just as it is his subjective opinion that it isn't.
Metalligod
2004-04-25, 03:13
They are looking for pain, the pain gives them pleasure. Who are you to say they are not looking for "real suffering"?
Ok, I'm going to try and not say anything extra. I'm going to show you why this is a stupid ass comment.
My previous statement:"BTW- I'm sort of a masochist so I know the difference in desirable pain, and suffering."
Umm the truly isn't a sorta catagory, you're either one or not one.
Besides, you just proved the point. Perfection is subjective, therefore you cannot say, as a maxim, that the world is flawed.
Ok and if everyone is not getting the world to be the way they like it, then this is not a perfect world. Therefore I can say it. Even if it wasn't I could still say it.
Can you honestly name one person who believes the world is perfect?
In other words, it is your subjective opinion that the world is flawed, just as it is his subjective opinion that it isn't.
And obviously in everyone elses as well, because you're still here. Jk, Jk... No one finds the world to be perfect. Like I said, if you can HONESTLY name one person who finds the world to be perfect, then my arguement is dead.
quote:Ok, I'm going to try and not say anything extra. I'm going to show you why this is a stupid ass comment.
My previous statement:"BTW- I'm sort of a masochist so I know the difference in desirable pain, and suffering."
Umm the truly isn't a sorta catagory, you're either one or not one
You're a masochist?! That completely refutes my statements!...
Sorry, but I have a Ph.D. in masochism so I know more about it than you ... http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)
quote:Ok and if everyone is not getting the world to be the way they like it, then this is not a perfect world. Therefore I can say it. Even if it wasn't I could still say it.
Can you honestly name one person who believes the world is perfect?
Everyone else not getting the world to be the way they like it might seem perfect so somebody else. You opened up this possibility by agreeing that perfection is in essence, subjective.
quote:And obviously in everyone elses as well, because you're still here. Jk, Jk... No one finds the world to be perfect. Like I said, if you can HONESTLY name one person who finds the world to be perfect, then my arguement is dead.
Okay, I do. Dead.
---
Not meant as an insult, but you need to refine your arguing skills. First, how could you possibly know that nobody finds the world as perfect? You can't and you don't. This is a matter of opinion; therefore the possibility of an opinion existing alone is enough to refute you.
[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 04-25-2004).]
Metalligod
2004-04-25, 04:25
quote:Originally posted by Rust:
Okay, I do. Dead....
1.Your last post is Grade A BULLSHIT!
Not an OPINION.
2.You know damned good and well I have good arguing skills. It's quite palpable that I'm not trying to argue. I know the belief of a perfect world is opinionitive, I'm not arguing that it's not. I fuckin said it.
3. I don't believe the world is perfect and no matter how much arguing you do, I'll never believe that 1 person on this planet believes it is perfect. The thought that no one thinks the world is perfect is something I find to be true. I, in myself believe it is true.
4. I fuckin said HONESTLY name one person who believes this world is perfect. I don't care how much ARGUING you do, I'll never believe that you HONESTLY believe the world is perfect.
This fuckin thread is about everyones out look on thing. 'Limitations' is the title, and the begining post is composed of questions and 'if and thens.'
5. Be for fuckin real. "Ph.D. in masochism "
You're a lie named 'Shit!' And so the hell what if you were being Honest(a term I use very loosely with you), no matter how much fuckin text book shit you know, you'll never know the thing you're studying than the person living it.
I know why the hell I'm into masochism, and there is no possible way you can HONESTLY know why, because you're not ME.(Thank God/Chance/Whatever) There is no possible way to know why I or anyone else is into it, without us 'honestly' telling you why we 'personally' are into it.
The stuff you learned in school is not truly valid. Reason why? I'll tell you:<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>Firstly, someone into masochism could be into it for a totally different reason than another person.
<LI>Secondly, someone could be too embarrassed to honestly talk about the reason(s) 'why.' So they tell the researchers, who writes your freakin psychology books and teach about masochism, false info.
<LI>Lastly, your text book teachings only gives a limitted number of reasons 'why' or 'what' masochists get out of the masochistic ordeals. Or what makes them like it.</UL>
I don't mean to be rude...but: Therefore you know nothing compared to me, as far as masochism. You need to learn a better way to argue. And you need to learn that since you, yourself know that everyone has subjective outlooks on everything. That you should never type any human. P.H.D in Masochism, PA LEEZE! http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)
-This posts has a nasty tone, but get over it plz, it's the way I speak. It's not like I'm running for prez.-
Caucasian
2004-04-25, 05:18
Got a few giggles reading this thread.. so i figured I'd just point out my favorite parts so far:
God is omniscient and by definition his knowledge cannot be wrong. God knows (via his omniscience) that he will drink a glass of milk on Friday. So the question is, does God have free will in this situation? Can he choose not to drink the milk on Friday?
..wouldn't God KNOW he was gonna change his mind, thus retaining his omniscientness?
Besides.. you're taking this whole bible deal too seriously. Omniscient may not mean that God can see into the future, but he can see the consequences in all actions taken by individuals. Going back to the milk thing, God knows what would happen if He drank his milk (healthy bones) and what wouldn't happen if he drank his milk (osteoperosis). Just gotta look at it in more of a spiritual sense, instead of a literal sense.
You have to be an über-christian to get into Heaven.
Actually, you just go to Purgatory until you're ready for heaven. Or, if worse comes to worse, you go to hell for 3000 years THEN go to heaven.
2.You know damned good and well I have good arguing skills. It's quite palpable that I'm not trying to argue. I know the belief of a perfect world is opinionitive, I'm not arguing that it's not. I fuckin said it.
I disagree. Congratulations, we're having an argument.
I don't mean to be rude...but: Therefore you know nothing compared to me, as far as masochism.
Since when is that something to brag about?
So to sum it up.. you all argue like children.You can't force religion upon somebody and you can't force somebody to believe their religion is wrong, so stop trying. And you most certainly can't prove/disprove God and his omni-whatever. That's where faith comes in.. yada yada.. gotta have faith.
I just wanted to post =/
EDIT: screwed my quotes.. so i just used italics.
[This message has been edited by Caucasian (edited 04-25-2004).]
quote:2.You know damned good and well I have good arguing skills. It's quite palpable that I'm not trying to argue. I know the belief of a perfect world is opinionitive, I'm not arguing that it's not. I fuckin said it.
3. I don't believe the world is perfect and no matter how much arguing you do, I'll never believe that 1 person on this planet believes it is perfect. The thought that no one thinks the world is perfect is something I find to be true. I, in myself believe it is true.
You failed logic apparently. If it is a matter of opinion, then obviously someone can believe the world is perfect. The above poster believes it isn't flawed, that is his opinion, which is my point all along. Their being suffering or misfortune in the world does not mean the world isn’t perfect/.
quote:I fuckin said HONESTLY name one person who believes this world is perfect. I don't care how much ARGUING you do, I'll never believe that you HONESTLY believe the world is perfect
Nice. You ask for someone who believes something and then when presented with it you don't believe it. Why ask for it in the first place...
quote:5. Be for fuckin real. "Ph.D. in masochism "
You're a lie named 'Shit!' And so the hell what if you were being Honest(a term I use very loosely with you), no matter how much fuckin text book shit you know, you'll never know the thing you're studying than the person living it.
It was SARCASM. Here, learn the meaning of it: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=67&q=sarcasm
Of course I don't have a Ph.D. in masochism, to my knowledge that doesn't even exist! My point is that you ask me to take your word that you’re a masochist. Not only that, you pretend me to take it as proof! Who fucking cares that you are a masochist? It is irrelevant because you do not speak for every masochist in the world. Like you just said, "someone into masochism could be into it for a totally different reason than another person". You refuted your own argument!
Metalligod
2004-04-25, 19:53
You failed logic apparently. If it is a matter of opinion, then obviously someone can believe the world is perfect. The above poster believes it isn't flawed, that is his opinion, which is my point all along. Their being suffering or misfortune in the world does not mean the world isn’t perfect/.
You fail to show proof of an existing brain in your head. I fuckin said this whole damned discussion is about OPINION. You're the only fuckin moron who can't figure that out. I made it quite obvious that I believe no one thinks this worlds is perfect. Why is that so fuckin hard to understand?
I stated quite firmly that is was a matter of opinion, and you even quited that I said so. I never said someone CAN'T believe the world is perfect, you're a dumb bitch. Stop making up stuff and you'd see that.
I believe what was said was: I don't believe the world is perfect and no matter how much arguing you do, I'll never believe that 1 person on this planet believes it is perfect. The thought that no one thinks the world is perfect is something I find to be true. I, in myself believe it is true.
You are completely useless! Just useless!
Nice. You ask for someone who believes something and then when presented with it you don't believe it. Why ask for it in the first place...
I never asked for someone who believes anything. What the fuck, you're pathetic.
What was said was, "HONESTLY name one person who believes this world is perfect." And,
"I'll never believe that you HONESTLY believe the world is perfect"
I don't believe you are an honest person, I made that quite clear. I've proven you to be a liar many times, and I will not/do not believe you are an honest man. I made this too, quite clear when I said, "Honest(a term I use very loosely with you)"
Of course I don't have a Ph.D. in masochism, to my knowledge that doesn't even exist! My point is that you ask me to take your word that you’re a masochist.
I knew that, and I was going to say that that does not exist. But I thought it would be much better just tell you why you still wouldn't know more than me about masochism, if you had a good understanding of it, or know someone who is a masochist. Ph.D's in Moasochism are not real, but there are special psycological studies for masochism. people who've listened to Dr. Drew then you'd know this.
Not only that, you pretend me to take it as proof!
There you go using words you don't know the meaning to. You won't agree, as always. But that sentence makes no sense.
Who fucking cares that you are a masochist? It is irrelevant because you do not speak for every masochist in the world.
No body asked or told anybody to care. You are astoundingly stupid. I know I don't speak for every masochist in the world. However I am a masochist, and you specifically said, "Masochist want to be harmed..."
This is a flase statement, I am a living example of why your statement was false. That's is why me saying that I was a masochist was relavent. It's not my fault that you are too stupid to know that. You made another false statement, get over it.
Like you just said, "someone into masochism could be into it for a totally different reason than another person". You refuted your own argument!
No I refuted your arguement. Whatta dumbass! http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)
ilbastardoh
2004-04-25, 20:02
quote:Originally posted by NewDude:
if someone knows everything...he still has free will doesnt he? if a nuclear scientist knows everything about making a nuke, its still his free will about how and what he does with this knowledge
Gimme a break. Let me try to ask Met's question. I'll dumb it down for you.
God is omniscient and by definition his knowledge cannot be wrong. God knows (via his omniscience) that he will drink a glass of milk on Friday. So the question is, does God have free will in this situation? Can he choose not to drink the milk on Friday?
To quote the matrix..."You already know if I'm going to take it? Wouldn't be much of an Oracle if I didn't. Then how can I make a choice. Because you didn't come here to make a choice, you already did that. You're here to understand why you made it.
We cannot understand why we choose what we choose until we experience the choice.
What is it you're here to do? Who knows. We just know that we'll understand our choices if we look back, and in that act we change and are reborn. We end things as a new beginning, we evolve.
Metalligod
2004-04-25, 20:05
What I said: 2.You know damned good and well I have good arguing skills. It's quite palpable that I'm not trying to argue. I know the belief of a perfect world is opinionitive, I'm not arguing that it's not. I fuckin said it.
I disagree. Congratulations, we're having an argument.
1. One you a stupid bitch, for saying, "I disagree", what the hell was there to disagree to?
2. Congratulations, we're having an arguement? You are by far dumber than Rust. You should die. We were not arguing, so what the fuck are you talking about?
What I siad: "I don't mean to be rude...but: Therefore you know nothing compared to me, as far as masochism."
Since when is that something to brag about?
Bitch, who the hell was bragging? What the fuck are you talking about? Do you even know?
So to sum it up.. you all argue like children.You can't force religion upon somebody and you can't force somebody to believe their religion is wrong, so stop trying.
Who the fuck is forcing religion on someone? Who the hell said someones religion was wrong? Just die BITCH! Ignorant fuckin cunt, you have no Goddamned clue what you're talking about!
And you most certainly can't prove/disprove God and his omni-whatever.
Why not? I just did. You haven't a cintilla of intelligence in your entire being. You should be savagely murdered by Satanic dumbasses.
I just wanted to post =/
Quite obvious, and you should be banned, based on your intelligence alone. No, you should be banned from Earth!
ilbastardoh
2004-04-25, 20:13
quote:Originally posted by Metalligod:
They are looking for pain, the pain gives them pleasure. Who are you to say they are not looking for "real suffering"?
Ok, I'm going to try and not say anything extra. I'm going to show you why this is a stupid ass comment.
My previous statement:"BTW- I'm sort of a masochist so I know the difference in desirable pain, and suffering."
Umm the truly isn't a sorta catagory, you're either one or not one.
Besides, you just proved the point. Perfection is subjective, therefore you cannot say, as a maxim, that the world is flawed.
Ok and if everyone is not getting the world to be the way they like it, then this is not a perfect world. Therefore I can say it. Even if it wasn't I could still say it.
Can you honestly name one person who believes the world is perfect?
In other words, it is your subjective opinion that the world is flawed, just as it is his subjective opinion that it isn't.
And obviously in everyone elses as well, because you're still here. Jk, Jk... No one finds the world to be perfect. Like I said, if you can HONESTLY name one person who finds the world to be perfect, then my arguement is dead.
I see the world and myself and all other consious beings as perfect. Cycles my friend, you never really hate someone until you meet them, or like them for that matter.
quote:You fail to show proof of an existing brain in your head. I fuckin said this whole damned discussion is about OPINION. You're the only fuckin moron who can't figure that out. I made it quite obvious that I believe no one thinks this worlds is perfect. Why is that so fuckin
hard to understand?
I stated quite firmly that is was a matter of opinion, and you even quited that I said so. I never said someone CAN'T believe the world is perfect, you're a dumb bitch. Stop making up stuff and you'd see that.
I believe what was said was: I don't believe the world is perfect and no matter how much arguing you do, I'll never believe that 1 person on this planet believes it is perfect. The thought that no one thinks the world is perfect is something I find to be true. I, in myself believe it is true.
You are completely useless! Just useless
Nice attempt at changing the argument. You said:
"Because they are violations or another persons well-being. Thus, this cannot be a perfect world, and we cannot be perfect creatures.
Like I already showed, this CAN be a perfect world; this was my point all along. Therefore the statement, "Thus, this cannot be a perfect world, and we cannot be perfect creatures.” is wrong. You can believe that we aren’t perfect, what you cannot believe is that the possibility of us being so does not exist. When you say “we cannot” you are removing any possibility of it happening.
quote:I never asked for someone who believes anything. What the fuck, you're pathetic.
What was said was, "HONESTLY name one person who believes this world is perfect." And,
"I'll never believe that you HONESTLY believe the world is perfect"
I don't believe you are an honest person, I made that quite clear. I've proven you to be a liar many times, and I will not/do not believe you are an honest man. I made this too, quite clear when I said, "Honest(a term I use very loosely with you)"
You said, "can you honestly tell me...". Now, I already answered this to you. Whether you want to accept it is upt to you, but I answered. Not only that, but me knot knowing someone that thinks that way proves nothing, so it is irrelevant.
quote:I knew that, and I was going to say that that does not exist. But I thought it would be much better just tell you why you still wouldn't know more than me about masochism, if you had a good understanding of it, or know someone who is a masochist. Ph.D's in Moasochism are not real, but there are special psycological studies for masochism. people who've listened to Dr. Drew then you'd know this.
Of course you knew that! http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)
quote:There you go using words you don't know the meaning to. You won't agree, as always. But that sentence makes no sense.
“You pretend that I take it as proof”.
quote:No body asked or told anybody to care. You are astoundingly stupid. I know I don't speak for every masochist in the world. However I am a masochist, and you specifically said, "Masochist want to be harmed..."
This is a flase statement, I am a living example of why your statement was false. That's is why me saying that I was a masochist was relavent. It's not my fault that you are too stupid to know that. You made another false statement, get over it.
For it to be right I only need two people that agree with my statement. I didn't say "All masochists in the world", I said "Masochist", which means two or more in this case.
Oh and still the statement is correct:
Masochist: "The deriving of sexual gratification, or the tendency to derive sexual gratification, from being physically or emotionally abused."
Abused: "To hurt or injure by maltreatment; ill-use."
Hurt: "To cause physical damage to; harm:"
They DO, by definition want to be harmed.
[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 04-25-2004).]