I've met a lot of people, and I've noticed something about almost every single highly intelligent person I've ever met: They are ALL athiests. Not god-haters, just not believers. Almost every one. It makes you wonder if their higher level of intelligence gives them some kind of kick in the head that makes them realize "There ain't no god", or what.

However, I work with a VERY intelligent doctor (name's Pitt, and you ain't talkin' your way outta dis shit) who's also a devout catholic. His IQ must be goddamn 160, and he's the holiest person I've damn near ever met. So what about him; is he the exception or the rule, and I've just met the intelligent athiests by coincidence?

Just a disorganized rumination. I don't post here much; sorry for the n00bishness.

-Infrared

I don't think religious beliefs are any reflection of intelligence. I do imagine that blind faith is a reflection of weakness. If you're simply willing to say you believe in something just because you're scared, or can't imagine not believing in it, or something along those lines, then I consider that weakness.

But, while weakness is often a sign of unintelligence, it isn't always. Fear grips us all and so does laziness.

I have an uncle who teaches catechism and mathematics and is completely engulfed in blind faith, but he's also a genius and can pull calculus equations out of his asshole. He does trigonometry for fun... So, I think he's a pretty good example.

Nice guy, too. But, he lectures me too much.

Cheers,

Lost

the guy must have a few screws loose..most extremly smart people do right?

I'm bathing in pudding as I type...so yes, yes we do.

I've met more decent stupid people than smart people.

But, I think there's a grey area. There's a level of intelligence slightly higher than average, allowing them power of stupider people, but still not intelligent enough for them to thoroughly gage the consequences of their own power.

This leads to the greatest downfalls of humankind, I believe.

Cheers,

Lost

Something I've noticed throughout my travels is that a lot of the people destined to be failures in the eye of society are very often absolutely genius in nature. These are men who could have been physicists, politicians, chemists, lawyers, inventors...all of it destroyed because their intelligence made them far too self-aware to handle life. They uncovered secrets that were far too horrible for them to comprehend at the time, and it drove them insane. I know some will see it as arrogant of me to say this, but I see myself on the same path they have walked; I've started to learn things that horrify me, and bit by bit it is eating away at me. First, it destroyed my faith; second, my ability to interact with society as I once had; third, my morals; now, it feels like it is eating away at my empathy. It's harder and harder every day to love my friends and to feel sorrow for those in this world who suffer...I have gone too deep into my own mind to find sanctuary, all I have now are the thoughts of despair...my defense mechanisms are wearing away at the brunt assault of truth. I once feared death, but that no more...that was a fear I had until the last one of my morals existed; now though...now I fear life, because from what I have seen in the older humans who have walked the path I am currently on and can find no escape from, I will go insane and fall into the deepest despair us humans can find...I'm falling into the truth and my mind is too aware at this point to ignore it anymore. I wan't to deny the truth but I can no longer; cognitive dissonance can only do so much, and that which it has held back is seeping through.

You are, indeed, insane my friend. As am I, along with the rest of the human race. Insanity, and wisdom the bringer of insanity are both very relative. A man can know how to fluenlty speak 7 languages, the most complex of math, the history of Europe, and still be completely oblivious on how to fix a car or start a conversation.

A man can find it complete gibberish to believe in a being that no one can proove it exists, has nothing backing up it's worth besides a bunch of morons working for it and praising it and condeming you for not having it in your life......and yet be a slave to money which has all the same properties.

People are truly chaotic in nature, and everyone has their own psychological demons to battle. Some just don't choose to hide them, some just aren't afraid to not be perfect. They're labeled insane and unfit to live in a society of "civilized" humans, when they are the most human of all.

What a strange strange world.

Einstein acknowledged a god. Not the christian God specifically, just a creator-deity.

Newton was christian...

In fact, if you go back to most of the important inventors in history, they were all religious in some way...

in tune with Hex's post, im pretty much world weary at this present time, and i felt i could relate to what he said. if that makes me intelligent, then so be it-but maybe the link between intelligence and atheism is a lot more simple-

intelligent people see a world they are not happy with->religion doesnt provide them with any peace of mind->so become atheist or agnostic to push problems to the back of their minds and to get on with life, effectivly living without hope for the future-so they focus on the best they can possibly do with their lives, so many become succesfull.

but then i know tonnes of stupid lazy atheists as well as stupid lazy religious people. But the most knowledgable religious scholars are amazingly intelligent and quick witted. it all depends on what you feed your mind.

either feed it difficult to understand, religious theology which keeps you thinking-or feed it countless scientific knowledge that keeps your mind ticking over.

the old people that get alzheimers ect are all the ones who parked themselves in front of the television for the last years of there lives-all the mentally active ones are either scientists or deeply religious who read the bible a lot.

What becomes of those of us who are constantly thinking and despise methods to numb the mind? Thinking is a very painful and horrendous process, very much so...but I partake in it constantly, and would have it no other way...perhaps finding the truth will eventually drive me insane, but I will still have thoughts.

Lost, I really, really, really like you. Just wanted you to know. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Also: Hex, we discussed the whole "genius by nature but not by societal standards" thing tonight; remember? I kind of fit in: I'm the "idiot by boxed academic 'standards' yet genius in human, spiritual and spoken nature" type. I was a C-student in HS, for the most part (graduated with a 3.75 GPA, though), and REALLY came to hate the standard boxed education we were all force-fed. That's why I did bad. A fire was lit under my ass towards the end, though, which kept me pressing on.

All things considered, though: I'm a thoughful and passionate man who has a very big brain but a soft, yet big, heart.

And my religious views are of the "Yes, there's a god, ok, cool, now leave me alone so I can snort coke and drink rum" persuasion. Obtuse, narrow-minded and disrespectable? Yes. But I'm just being honest.

Anyway..time for bed. 'Night.

/Kisses Losty's cheek, smacks Hex for running from a car accident.. http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif))

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

Something I've noticed throughout my travels is that a lot of the people destined to be failures in the eye of society are very often absolutely genius in nature. These are men who could have been physicists, politicians, chemists, lawyers, inventors...all of it destroyed because their intelligence made them far too self-aware to handle life. They uncovered secrets that were far too horrible for them to comprehend at the time, and it drove them insane. I know some will see it as arrogant of me to say this, but I see myself on the same path they have walked; I've started to learn things that horrify me, and bit by bit it is eating away at me. First, it destroyed my faith; second, my ability to interact with society as I once had; third, my morals; now, it feels like it is eating away at my empathy. It's harder and harder every day to love my friends and to feel sorrow for those in this world who suffer...I have gone too deep into my own mind to find sanctuary, all I have now are the thoughts of despair...my defense mechanisms are wearing away at the brunt assault of truth. I once feared death, but that no more...that was a fear I had until the last one of my morals existed; now though...now I fear life, because from what I have seen in the older humans who have walked the path I am currently on and can find no escape from, I will go insane and fall into the deepest despair us humans can find...I'm falling into the truth and my mind is too aware at this point to ignore it anymore. I wan't to deny the truth but I can no longer; cognitive dissonance can only do so much, and that which it has held back is seeping through.

You are mentioning so often things you have noticed throughout your travels, that by now I have come to believe that you must be Herodotos himself.

But OK, very beautifully and eloquently put, and how true. Makes me think of... let's see... E.A. Poe, offhand ?

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

What becomes of those of us who are constantly thinking and despise methods to numb the mind? Thinking is a very painful and horrendous process, very much so...but I partake in it constantly, and would have it no other way...perhaps finding the truth will eventually drive me insane, but I will still have thoughts.

Ah... you will, but what will be the nature of your thoughts, pray tell ? Give it just some more of your thoughts, and you might come to the conclusion, as I do, that the thoughts still crossing your mind by that time might be nothing so much as poison to your feelings, and deadening to your senses... you might find that quantity has won to the expense of quality.

quote:Originally posted by I_Like_Traffic_Lights:

You are, indeed, insane my friend. As am I, along with the rest of the human race. Insanity, and wisdom the bringer of insanity are both very relative. A man can know how to fluenlty speak 7 languages, the most complex of math, the history of Europe, and still be completely oblivious on how to fix a car or start a conversation.

That may be as it may, but you can imagine that, by then, he has other things on his mind than making problems out of starting conversations.

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

Something I've noticed throughout my travels is that a lot of the people destined to be failures in the eye of society are very often absolutely genius in nature. These are men who could have been physicists, politicians, chemists, lawyers, inventors...all of it destroyed because their intelligence made them far too self-aware to handle life. They uncovered secrets that were far too horrible for them to comprehend at the time, and it drove them insane. I know some will see it as arrogant of me to say this, but I see myself on the same path they have walked; I've started to learn things that horrify me, and bit by bit it is eating away at me. First, it destroyed my faith; second, my ability to interact with society as I once had; third, my morals; now, it feels like it is eating away at my empathy. It's harder and harder every day to love my friends and to feel sorrow for those in this world who suffer...I have gone too deep into my own mind to find sanctuary, all I have now are the thoughts of despair...my defense mechanisms are wearing away at the brunt assault of truth. I once feared death, but that no more...that was a fear I had until the last one of my morals existed; now though...now I fear life, because from what I have seen in the older humans who have walked the path I am currently on and can find no escape from, I will go insane and fall into the deepest despair us humans can find...I'm falling into the truth and my mind is too aware at this point to ignore it anymore. I wan't to deny the truth but I can no longer; cognitive dissonance can only do so much, and that which it has held back is seeping through.

you know, thats funny: i lied to myself for years and years, for things i didnt want to face. and my lies built a whole complex by themselves. it wasnt untill i stopped the bullshit, and learned a great deal of acceptance among other things, that my life has really became worth living.

i find a solace in truth, even unpleasent shit. knowing is better than not knowing.

but, like you, i find myself short on real friends. my boundless cynicism, and overall lack of faith in my fellow man, makes me quite a unique singular fellow. while most ppl are still caught up in the flagellation [spelling] of hope and the circus of values, i just sit back and accept it all.

example: im 21, well more or less 22. most of my friends still have this very fucked up veiw of women as somehow being better than we are, more fair. and you know what its got them? misery.

as things have went on, i feel less a need for friends as just some ppl to hang out with. when i feel like debating, or kicking around ideas, i goto the net.

I'd suggest meditation... sounds like you deserve a mental rest, hex...

Something I've noticed throughout my travels, is... I've been travelling far too much.

I'd suggest meditation... sounds like you deserve a mental rest, hex...

I wish I could rest my mind, but I'm a thinker. Meditation is pure hell for me; I like to physically relax and to be mentally active. I've come to term with my thoughts and have grown to enjoy them quite enough.

Something I've noticed throughout my travels, is... I've been travelling far too much.



I concur with that statement. I found what I was looking for; it's time to settle down and enjoy the simple things in life.

It seems as though while the mind of a human can evolve at fantastic speeds within one generation, our bodies craze for the physical evolution that will bring us closer to harmony with the world about us. We think and think, think until our bodies have withered up and died but our minds continue on through sheer momentum. Perhaps that is not the path one should follow. Perhaps we should work to better ourselves mentally, as thinkers and philosophers even if our ideas are already known, but also physically. Tai chi, yoga, there are a million different things in the world one can do that are both physically and mentally stimulating. And that is where I find my solace. My mind gives me the key to reality but it is my body that must make the journey. My preferred method for physical and mental betterment is a dueling-type exercise my friends and I partake in. It's essentially movie-style dramatic sword fighting without sharp objects. I suggest that to anyone who seems to slowly be buckling under the mental stress of always finding ways to unravel the world. It's much akin to tai chi in its movements but with a friendly competitive edge. Either that or revel in the feeling of impending detachment from the world. The combination will do you good.